December 12, 2025 • 38 mins
What if birth is a rite of passage, not a procedure? Angie sits down with Swedish mentor and former midwife Anna Lundqvist to explore how intuition, preparation, and grounded advocacy can transform pregnancy, labor, and postpartum. Anna traces her path from Australia’s home birth culture in Byron Bay—where physiological birth and birth centers were the norm—to the painful decision to leave hospital practice after witnessing obstetric violence. When her Australian credential wasn’t recognized back home in Sweden, she stepped fully into education and mentorship, founding Sacred Birth International to support families and train a new kind of birth worker.
We dive into practical ways parents can build inner authority: understanding physiology, clarifying values, practicing consent and refusal, and learning to filter outside advice through personal intuition. Anna explains why “you birth the way you live,” showing how daily habits of presence, breath, and boundaries translate directly into the labor room. For professionals, she outlines the Sacred Birth Worker Mentorship, a comprehensive program that blends deep inner work with clinical awareness—covering variations of normal, trauma-aware care, hospital navigation, and advocacy that is calm, clear, and effective.
Along the way, we talk about the power of community debriefs to prevent burnout, the role of sacred space in any setting, and the quiet beauty of a home birth where attendants step back and a family leads. Whether you’re preparing to give birth or to support it, you’ll leave with language, tools, and confidence to protect physiological birth, honor consent, and keep the mother at the center.
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Show Credits
Host: Angie Rosier
Music: Michael Hicks
Photographer: Toni Walker
Episode Artwork: Nick Greenwood
Producer: Gillian Rosier Frampton
Voiceover: Ryan Parker
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:10):
Welcome back to the Ordinary Doula Podcast with
Angie Rosier, hosted by BirthLearning, where we help prepare
folks for labor and birth withexpertise coming from 20 years
of experience in a busy doulapractice, helping thousands of
people prepare for labor,providing essential knowledge
and tools for positive andempowering birth experiences.
SPEAKER_01 (00:51):
I am your host and I love coming on and talking about
all kinds of different topics inthis work.
Today we have a very amazingguest with us.
Her name is Anna Lundqvist.
She comes to us from Sweden andhas had a pretty amazing journey
in her own birth work.
So we are gonna um hear some ofAnna's story and some of the I
(01:14):
think I love her view of birth,and I think sometimes we shift
away from that.
I know a lot of times we shiftvery far away from a view that
Anna's been able to hold on topretty strongly throughout her
work.
So Anna, will you introduceyourself a little bit more and
then let's get talking in aboutwhat it is your work, the work
that you do?
SPEAKER_02 (01:33):
Beautiful.
Okay.
So yes, my name is Anna, and Iam currently living in Sweden.
I am Swedish and I'm from here,but I've spent most of my adult
life traveling and being verynomadic and lived for a very
long time on and off inAustralia, where I also became a
midwife.
Now I'm actually deregisterednow and have stepped into the
(01:54):
role of mentor and educator forSacred Birth International,
which is my my company that I'ma founder of.
And proudly today I am educatingthe new kind of birth worker
called the Sacred Birth Worker,um, which I'm hoping is gonna
take over the world and do greatwork.
Oh, I would love that.
(02:15):
The sacred into the birth room.
SPEAKER_01 (02:18):
Very cool, very cool.
Um, so tell us a little bitabout your journey to become a
midwife.
And you were in Australia,right?
Yeah.
You become a midwife, okay.
And was this a in the UnitedStates we have different types
of midwives?
We have um home birth midwives,which are CPMs or certified
midwives, or you know, we callthem direct entry midwives, and
(02:41):
then we have our CNMs who aremore hospital-based.
What was your journey?
What tell us your journey inAustralia?
SPEAKER_02 (02:48):
Well, the curious thing for anyone who doesn't
live in the US is that you haveso many different kinds of
midwives.
I think it's up to almost 21different kinds of midwives
around in different states andhere and there and everywhere.
So in most of the rest of theworld, it's one way only, like
which is traditionally nowadaysin university degrees, right?
(03:09):
So the difference with the onein Australia is that it was
direct entry mid referee, sothree years university degree.
And here in Sweden, for example,if you want to be a midwife, you
have to be a nurse first, andthen you have to work as a nurse
before you can become a midwife.
So it's a very differentjourney.
So those are the I think themain differences in other
(03:29):
countries that you could gothose two different routes of
being direct entry midwife ornurse first, but both are in in
the university basically.
SPEAKER_01 (03:39):
Okay, interesting.
Okay, because we have directentry, obviously, and CNM as
well, which are very differentpathways.
Very sometimes sparks a lot ofum feelings about that.
But um yeah, I I I love thetraditional midwifery model and
mindset.
So, okay, so you were midwifeand practiced in Australia.
(04:01):
Um, did you also practice inSweden?
SPEAKER_02 (04:04):
Well, no, that's a different story.
I can just tell that thedifference between how I
actually entered midwifery wasfrom being a woman's work
facilitator for over a decade.
And so I was already holdingkind of ceremony and sacred
space for women where the focuswas to drop the masks and get
(04:25):
more embodied into who we are aswomen to reclaim our bodies, our
sexuality, our sensuality, ourself-love, our voice, our
expression in the world, and therite of passages of women, which
is both, you know, our firstblade, birthing, menopause,
which are you know women's riteof passages, right?
SPEAKER_03 (04:43):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (04:44):
So it's very involved in kind of sacred
women's business.
That's how I was kind of ledinto midriffery.
And so where I actually moved toin Australia is Byron Bay, was
Byron Bay, which is a very,maybe you know, a very kind of
alternative um place wherepeople from all over the world
gather.
There's so many differentnationalities who live in Byron,
(05:05):
they're drawn to the healing ofthe land because there's
crystals in the grid, it'scrystals in the earth there.
So has been for the indigenouspeoples of the land forever, and
a gathering place for theindigenous people.
So it's very much drawing peoplefrom all over the world, myself
included.
And in this area, they had abirth center and they had home
births, and it was a very highpercentage of home births, it
(05:28):
was like 20-25% home birthing,and almost the rest would birth
in a birth center.
So all very physiological,natural births, right?
And so when I was living there,that's when that was probably a
good fit for you, right?
Oh, yes.
I could never have become amidwife to go straight into the
hospital and be there.
I never wanted to be in thehospital.
Yeah, I already then knew what Iwanted to do, which was home
(05:50):
birth, midwifery.
And so I did the what you did,which was going through the uni,
but my mentorship throughoutthose three years was based
where I lived.
So I was attending home birthsand birth-centered births, as
well as doing shifts in thehospital.
So even though I did the kind oftraditional nowadays
traditional, which is not verytraditional, but you know, today
it's true, right?
(06:10):
Um university degree, uh, it wasbalanced by mainly of what I saw
was physiological naturalbirths, which actually is very
hard in our modern society todayto see.
Even that's true.
I was very, I was very much in abubble, a very strange
alternative bubble that therewas so much natural and normal.
SPEAKER_01 (06:31):
It's almost like you went back in time, I imagine,
before obstetrics was had astrong foothold in this work.
So you got to see a thing thatwe don't have much time or place
to see that anymore.
SPEAKER_02 (06:45):
So yes.
And I really noticed that goingback to Sweden, which was your
question, did I practice inSweden?
So because I didn't do the nursemidway free degree, I'm I was
actually not allowed to work inSweden.
It wasn't recognized because Iwasn't a real midwife according
to them, even though I'd donethese three years of uni
studies.
I'd been working for a few yearsby then.
(07:08):
I I still wasn't recognized asthat.
I would have to go back to unito become a nurse, and I have
zero interest in that.
So already coming back, I knew Iwouldn't enter in as a
registered midwife in thesystem, and I also didn't want
to.
I actually, before then, alreadyin Australia, I only worked for
a year in the hospital before Idecided to be a home birth
midwife, and I went out and didthat.
And so I already knew I didn'twant to work in the hospital, I
(07:32):
want to be I didn't want to bepart of the system, and so I
worked instead as kind of like aspiritual midwife or a midwife
dual hour.
So I and you know, I worked as abirth worker alongside instead
midwives, either at home births,and also sometimes I walked into
the hospital with my clients.
And that's how I started when Icame back to Sweden.
SPEAKER_01 (07:54):
Okay, okay.
Wow, what a probably difficultjourney in a lot of ways.
So tell me a little bit about,and I want to I want to revisit
some of that because my brain isfiring with a lot of questions,
and my heart is firing with alot of questions about that too.
Um, tell us a little bit aboutSacred Birth International and
(08:15):
what it sounds like thatembodies a lot of your work and
your philosophies.
Tell us a little bit about whatthat is.
SPEAKER_02 (08:21):
Yes, it is.
I'm so grateful that life hasled me here.
And that's the beauty, truly, Ifeel, when you follow your
intuition in your heart, youdon't let your logic and your
mind control your life.
And you just trust that the nextstep is going to unfold before
you.
You don't know the next step,but you just follow.
And that's how I feel like I'velived my life from the beginning
(08:43):
of you know, becoming a yogateacher and a woman's work
facilitator and all the things Idid before I even stepped into
midwifery, and then deciding tobecome a midwife in a foreign
country, not really knowing whatI was getting myself into, to be
honest.
Going through that, um, and veryquickly realizing I could never
work in that system and havingto have go through it for years
(09:06):
before I could actually step outwith my degree and with that
knowledge.
Um, it was very painful.
I have still, you know, I've hadto work through the the trauma
of being in that system and andand PTSD and witnessing so much
obstetric violence within thatsystem, even though I was so
lucky of seeing so much normal,I also saw the other side.
Yeah.
(09:27):
And so I knew I couldn't staylong and I really couldn't.
I barely made it to the firstyear in the hospital and going,
I just cannot do this anymore.
I have to step out of thesystem, which I knew was gonna
be punishing me because you haveto stay for a few years to then
get endorsed to be a proper homebirth midwife.
So I had to like find other waysto be a home birth midwife with
(09:47):
being the second of othermidwives and like working in
different ways, right?
And so, but I couldn't like myheart and my intuition said I
couldn't stay, I just couldn'tdo it to myself or to be in that
system.
I didn't know how though.
So that day when I resigned, Istarted my Instagram that I then
called The Spiritual Midwife,and which I was known for for
the first few years in mybusiness.
(10:08):
And I created online courseswhere I wanted to help women
understand how to optimize theirchances of having a natural
birth.
So I created the natural birthcourse.
I created a natural birthpodcast, and I just wanted to
serve and help women because Isaw that so few were actually
prepared, maybe wanting to havea natural birth and walking into
the system and being absolutelyrailroaded, right?
(10:29):
You know this.
Oh, absolutely.
The horror and the frustrationand the sadness and the grief
and the rage that I felt as amidwife seeing that was then
transmuted into I'm gonna dosomething, I'm gonna change
that, I'm gonna help dosomething with whatever I can,
right?
Yeah.
So I started as a spiritualmidwife for the first three
years before spiritual or forbefore Sacred Birth
(10:50):
International was born.
And I created my online courses.
I did a lot of birth traumahealing online in the whole
world.
A lot of African women came tome for that.
Um and I was working as a homebirth midwife in my community,
and then after those threeyears, COVID had happened.
It was mid-2021.
(11:11):
And where I was in Australia, Iwas just locked down.
Like I couldn't leave thecountry unless I actually was
going to move back to my homecountry.
Yes, that was the only reasonyou were allowed to travel.
And so by then my father had umstage three cancer, he's still
alive, but you know, he had thisprogressive cancer, and I didn't
(11:35):
know when I could leave, when Icould go back to see my blood
family, like my father, and likeI felt like I felt drawn to move
back home to be closer to them,and uh one thing, but just a lot
of things culminated to likeokay, it's time to actually
return to my homeland.
SPEAKER_01 (11:52):
Wow.
Again, following your intuition,probably, right?
SPEAKER_02 (11:56):
And meeting just what you said, the reality I
couldn't work as a midwife.
Yeah, my degree, what I hadworked so hard for, I'd gone
through all these years oflearning and you know, being in
this system I hated, just to getthis knowledge and information
and like have this certificatemeant nothing in my country.
So I had to reinvent myself.
I became that, you know, midwifedoula for about a year.
(12:17):
And then I fully deregisteredbecause I didn't want to be a
midwife anymore.
And that's where Sacred BirthInternational was born, because
I could no longer call myself amidwife.
So I kind of transitioned firstinto the spiritual midwitch, and
I call myself another spiritualmidwitch, kind of you know, like
some sort of what am I now?
(12:38):
I like they stole midwife, theystole that title, they say they
own it, and that if I'm notregistered, I cannot call myself
that, even though that's themost ancient woman's work, and
that has nothing to do with theobstetic nurses that you are
today as a midwife most of thetime, right?
SPEAKER_01 (12:53):
That's true, they're so different, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (12:55):
So different.
So I, you know, I've grievedthat a lot.
Oh, I bet still am because Iwill always be a midwife.
They can't take that away, butI'm not calling myself that
publicly anymore.
And that's where the SacredBirth International was born,
and also where I created my fullyear birth record training, the
Sacred Birthwork mentorship.
(13:17):
Yes.
Very cool.
Okay.
That's that's the journey,that's the story.
Now I'm going to start my fifthcohort in the end of January.
It's been two and a half yearssince the first cohort started,
and it's been an absolutelymagical journey.
SPEAKER_01 (13:33):
Okay, so um you bring a lot of more questions to
my mind, which I love.
Um I I want to touch on onething you talked about as you
were following your intuition.
You kind of described whatpeople do in physiologic birth,
right?
To be able to um be in tune withthe next steps, be able to
(13:54):
surrender, be able to moveforward and trust that inner
part.
So that's a really cool analogy,I think, to life.
Um, and we see that all the timein birth when we get to see
physiologic birth, right?
Which in some places is moredifficult.
So, Sacred Birth International,tell us about um you have
different courses, correct?
So if tell me first, if I'm apregnant person, um, what's
(14:18):
available there?
What are the tenets andphilosophies and kind of the
basis of those courses?
SPEAKER_02 (14:26):
Well, that is where the natural birth course and the
nourishing postpartum course andmy the maiden mother and maga
village exists.
So that is really for any womanwho is like want to consciously
conceive, is trying to conceive,is a birth nerd, but not yet a
mother, or is pregnant, is inher postpartum era, is in her
(14:50):
just mothering era, or is in hermaga years, her wise woman
years, or even Crown.
And so it's really for the fullspectrum of being a woman.
It's a village for everyone.
And in there, I also have mymentees.
I also have women like midwives,birth workers that have taken or
are taking my the businesscourse for birth workers where I
help business, you know, womenwho want to start their own
(15:13):
birth businesses to thrive bothin real life and online.
And I also have any clients thatcome to me for one-on-one.
So I do birth trauma healing, ofcourse, um still.
And I also offer online packagesto be like a birth worker for
women online as well.
So that's what kind of is onoffer for pregnant women, but
really any woman.
SPEAKER_01 (15:33):
Any woman.
I love that how inclusive thatis.
That's amazing.
Because yeah, there's that's afor some people a very small
time of life.
Um, it's very impactful thatstays with us.
But some people are gonna be intheir birthing years for a long
time, and other people it'squite a brief journey.
So that's pretty amazing.
Um, for someone who has seeninside the system and worked
(15:56):
inside the system, and whenyou're in a system, you get to
see all the warts, right?
All the ugly parts, um, whichand then and you came from
outside the system and then leftthe system.
What an incredible perspectiveyou have.
Um, so I would imagine thatgives you, you know, who you're
talking to, right?
Like the people that whatthey're going to be faced with,
(16:17):
um, and depending on where theychoose to give birth.
And one thing that'sinteresting, and I'm sure you
see this a lot, I think as I'veseen working with families over
20 years, no matter wheresomeone comes from or their
background or their profession,quite often people who are
seeking some kind of birthsupport have something inside of
(16:37):
them that says, regardless oftheir cultural surroundings,
that says, you know what, this Ican do this.
Like this people have been doingthis, women have been doing this
for thousands and millions ofyears.
There's something about thisthat I need to tap into.
So I think even in systems, whenwe grow up in these systems and
(16:58):
that's all we're surroundedwith, there's still something
innate inside that reaches forsomething different.
It sounds like you have a reallygood, you have created a pathway
that people can really tap intothat innate that is so common, I
think, in women.
Do they they feel something?
SPEAKER_02 (17:14):
Yes.
I mean, as women, we are bornwith intuition.
I truly believe that to a muchbigger and stronger degree than
men, actually.
And I think that's because ofour wound.
And yeah, and that only growsstronger when you become
pregnant, and that even explodesas your birthing, right?
(17:35):
And so we've been fooled andtaught that it doesn't exist, I
think, by because men don't haveit as strong as we do, and so
we've been gaslit for that, youknow, for a very long time.
And I think it's starting toresurface and become something
that we go at, yes, actually itdoesn't exist, but it takes time
(17:56):
to cultivate your relationshipwith that, and both for women
who you know just in generalwant to access that, but also
the absolute importance as birthworkers to cultivate our
relationship to our intuitionand be able to drop into our
heart consciousness and our wombconsciousness to serve women in
the birth space.
I think that is one of theabsolute biggest and most
(18:16):
important skills we have, whichis not really talked about in
any birth worker training that Iknow of, and something that's
very important to me andsomething that I focus very
heavily on in the sacred birthworker mentorship.
SPEAKER_01 (18:27):
And that's something that's not in textbooks, right?
SPEAKER_02 (18:29):
That's not something you'll find in It's feminine
wisdom, it's not breaking down.
SPEAKER_01 (18:33):
Yeah, exactly.
And it, yeah, it's passed down.
It's um and I and as you said, Ithink women come with that,
right?
They absolutely come with that.
So it sounds like creatingconfidence, right?
And that's something I seelacking so often in the people,
and and I, of course, work inthe United States.
And so um with a variety ofpeople and a variety of birthing
(18:54):
places, of course.
Um, but I think, and and and alot of for a lot of reasons, we
are out of touch with ourintuition.
We do not trust ourselves, we donot turn inward, we don't spend
time inward really.
And I think part of that is theum social media and or we have
(19:16):
access with our phones, we haveaccess to all this information.
We have access to all thisinformation out there that is
coming from others, but we don'tlook inward.
We don't spend time thinking,how do I feel about this?
How do I um how do I want tobirth?
What do I feel about birth?
We're looking to like whatinfluencer is saying, how should
(19:36):
I feel about birth?
Um, yeah, I think that's it'sharder in our world to tap into
that.
SPEAKER_02 (19:41):
Yes.
And you know what, we are soblessed that there is all this
access via our phones to allthis information.
But what is so important then isto have this strong relationship
to self and to your own innervoice so that you can take in
that information and then put itthrough your own internal
authority and inner knowing.
And go, like, does that resonatewith me?
(20:02):
Is that true for me?
And because that is notsomething we're taught really in
our culture, and not somethingthat we generally cultivate,
most women don't even know whatthat means or how that feels or
what to do.
Right?
SPEAKER_01 (20:16):
Yeah, it's a foreign feeling for some.
SPEAKER_02 (20:18):
Yeah, and so it's actually part of the natural
birth course.
There's a part where I teachabout my coaching tools about
how to access that and how tocultivate that because I think
this is so missing and it's key.
It's key to anything in life.
Being a birth worker, being abusinesswoman in birth, being a
you know, birthing womaneverywhere.
Like it is like actually, youall like the most important
(20:40):
thing is to check within yourinner knowing, not the external,
always the inner knowing.
SPEAKER_01 (20:47):
I love that.
Very cool.
Um, so I imagine, and I'vetaught many childbirth education
classes in hospital, out ofhospital, privately,
individually.
Um, and so much of the work, andit's hard to put all this into
some courses, right?
Depending on the style and thethe clientele of the course, so
(21:07):
much of it is um your mindset,what you go in expecting of
yourself, right?
So imagine in your natural birthcourse, you're helping people
prepare on a pretty foundationallevel from within, right?
Um, tapping inside because whatwe set out to do, what we
believe we can do is prettypowerful.
(21:27):
And I'm sure you've seen that inbirthing women a lot.
SPEAKER_02 (21:30):
Absolutely.
And also you birth the way youlive.
So if you're a person that livesdisconnected from your
intuition, your inner knowing,your body wisdom, if you if your
way of treating uncomfortablethings is to dissociate and not
sit with it, not feel it, notmeet the big emotions, then it
doesn't matter how many classesyou take, how much you learn,
(21:53):
how many books you read, howmany other stories you listen
to.
And I've had this very much asmy experience too with working
with women, right?
Doesn't matter what I or anyoneelse can do for you or share
with you, or you know, becauseif you don't have the
relationship with self, you'regonna birth the way you live.
So if you live disconnected,you're gonna have a disconnected
birth.
SPEAKER_03 (22:13):
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_01 (22:16):
So um I don't know about in Sweden, but I think in
the United States that's verycommon.
SPEAKER_03 (22:22):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (22:23):
Um, which is kind of sad, honestly.
Um, that there's so much morepotential that can come from our
experiences, right?
People can gain so much more ofthemselves, and it's really
quite empowering, I think, whenpeople are able to tap in, tap
into that.
SPEAKER_02 (22:39):
Yeah, birth can show you your biggest power as a
woman.
I mean, it's incredible, and itawakens women.
I mean, women a powerful birthexperience just awaken to their
own power and their own strengthand divinity, really.
SPEAKER_01 (22:52):
Yeah, they find out their capacity, right?
Like it's far greater than theyever imagined, I'm sure.
Um, very cool.
So tell me about you talkedabout you're starting your fifth
cohort.
Um, and it's tell me about thisprogram for birth workers.
SPEAKER_02 (23:06):
Yeah.
Oh, it's my baby.
SPEAKER_01 (23:08):
Oh, you love it.
SPEAKER_02 (23:10):
It's it's everything's come together,
right?
It's like, so I started as avery young woman of being 14
when I sat in a woman's circlefor the first time and I had a
mentor that was a you know, aMAGA wise woman.
And and ever since then, I'velike collected things.
I've been a student of life.
I've loved learning all thingsabout different healing
modalities and natural medicineand you know, women's kind of
(23:34):
women's sacred ancient business.
That's been my thing, right?
For like from 14 to like around30, right?
Before I entered into midrifere.
And so I've taken all of thatand baked that together with my
midwifery knowledge.
And I've created this reallylong, extensive, deep, holistic
training that is about sixmonths of an intensive learning
(23:55):
portal where we dive intoabsolutely everything.
In the first two, or about 10weeks, we dive on into your
birth imprint, your rite ofpassages, your maternal birthing
wisdom, your own experience ofhaving your first bleed in the
what that taught you about beinga woman, her story, like the
midrify, but also story ofwitches, like vice women, you
(24:16):
know, all of it.
We dive on into the sisterhoodwind and the witch wind, and our
relationship to our intuitionand the lack thereof, our
relationship to our body, oursexuality, our sensuality,
finding our own cervix, being inrelationship with our bodies so
we can help other women be inrelationship with their bodies,
right?
Our own voice, relationship toauthority, so we can be strong
birth advocates and speak up forwomen and protect them in the
(24:39):
system.
Like we go into feminineleadership and what that looks
like, and you know, cultivatingthem for 10 weeks to be the
sacred spaceholders that theyneed to be, holding circles,
ceremonies, mother blessing,postpartum ceremonies, all of
that, right?
Before we even start withconscious conception, pregnancy.
We go into, of course, all thedepth of physiological birth,
(25:00):
natural birth, how to supportit, and then we dive on into the
postpartum, made-in-to-mothertransition, all with a very kind
of holistic spiritual alsoaspect to all of it, not just
the medicalized stuff.
Like there's a part of that too,because I am a midwife and I can
bring that too.
And then we dive intomedicalized birth, talk about
the different kind of variationsof normal, like breach and twins
(25:21):
and be backs and all of that.
And we talk about the trueemergencies.
We talk about the natural, orsorry, the normal birth of
today, which is variants andinductions and epidurals and for
all the things, right?
And how to navigate that system,support someone and educate
someone about that system, theirroutines, all of the things, and
then we dive on into sacredbirth advocacy and in the end,
(25:42):
also a bit of sacred businessand marketing into that too.
SPEAKER_01 (25:45):
That's so cool.
SPEAKER_02 (25:46):
Really holistic, big, deep training for those who
want to not become um a doulaand don't want to become a
midwife, they want something inbetween.
And someone who also alreadysees birth as a rite of passage,
sees it as a very sacred eventin a woman's life, and who
really feels drawn to um holdsacred space and protect that.
SPEAKER_01 (26:12):
Wow, as well.
Gosh, that is incredible.
You just got me very excitedabout so many things.
Um, so it's some internal worktoo.
People taking this course aregonna be kind of a different
person at the end of that.
SPEAKER_02 (26:26):
Yes.
And so I have newbies who arejust like birth nerds and like,
whoa, I want to do this.
I love this, right?
I don't, you know, and I havemothers who've had a birth
experience or several themselvesand have woken to the power of
birth either through an amazingkind of positive birth
experience or through atraumatic one.
Both find this.
Yeah, I have doulas, midwives,doctors, nurses, lawyers from
(26:50):
the UN.
I have all kinds of differentpeople who've found this
mentorship.
It's absolutely amazing.
So there's it's really it'sbuilt for anyone.
So even if you're already abirth worker, you can join, or
if you're a total newbie canjoin, and it will serve you
both.
SPEAKER_01 (27:04):
Wow, wow, very cool.
Um, and I think you know,someone who's been a birth
worker a long time, somethingthat circles back to the why,
our big why, as we come back tothe basis of our work, right?
Which we can get distracted fromsometimes for sure.
I know I have been based onexperiences and um where I serve
(27:27):
and work sometimes can influenceall of that.
So very cool.
Okay, so tell me a little bit,something that that um I felt as
you were talking about that.
Um, working in the system.
It is say you you get this thisbackground, this foundational
training um that goes prettydeep into your own life.
(27:48):
And I and like you said, I thinkwhen when we're grounded and
solid, we can serve othersbetter, right?
When we are filling our own cup.
And then we go into the system.
Let's talk about that, like howwe work inside a system that's
difficult to work in.
SPEAKER_02 (28:07):
Yeah, you know, it is really, really hard.
But it's definitely doable.
And I think the number one keyto kind of survive working as a
birth worker within the systemthat is causing so much trauma
and harm, actually, to bothmothers and babies.
That is just the truth, um, isto have the the most deepest,
(28:30):
uh, safest relationship with youand your client.
So if you, you know, the longeryou can work together, the
deeper you can work together,the more in-depth discussions
and shares you can have that youcan really trust each other and
you can really educate her, andshe can feel really embodied and
(28:51):
sovereign in her decision makersbefore she steps into the
hospital.
You can be a much more safer andlike relaxed and like confident
in your advocacy for her.
It does, you know, it's hard toadvocate for someone who's
wishy-washy.
SPEAKER_03 (29:06):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (29:08):
If I ever step into the hospital system with them,
that we do extensive workbeforehand.
We talk about all the routineprocedures and all the ways that
things can happen andinterventions that are within
the system just naturally bydefault, it just happens like
that.
SPEAKER_01 (29:22):
The realities, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (29:24):
And I very much educate her on the law and her
human rights as a woman and as ahuman being and as a birthing
woman, and really instill thatin her so there's no doubt in
her that she can absolutelydecline absolutely everything.
If she wants to walk in thereand not be touched and not have
anyone in her room, essentiallythat is her right.
Yes, you're gonna have to fightfor her a lot if that's really
(29:44):
truly her, and she shouldprobably birth in the hospital
if she wants to have absolutelydifficult, but yeah, you know,
but if that is her choice, thatis also her right.
Like no one can, there's no lawthat tells you otherwise.
The patient's law is very clear,you have to informed them
consent for everything.
So if she is very embodied andunderstand that if you made a
had a you know, if you've done agood job as a birth worker, she
(30:06):
will feel confident in that.
And so then you write a birthplan that they'll probably throw
out, but you have it in yourhand about what she's wanting
and not wanting, and then youcan very easily advocate for her
for that, which is gonna be yourmain job in there, and it's not
the greatest, more most fun job,it's a very sacred job that you
have.
It's not fun, it's not the whywe are there.
We want to be with woman, right?
We want to serve her, but you'regonna have to be that advocate
(30:28):
too.
So you need to have a strong,clear voice that is so grounded
in your knowing that you areserving the woman.
It's not about you, it's abouther and her wishes, and you have
that on print and you'readvocating for her.
When we have that, we canactually really safeguard women
to have natural births andempowering births in any kind of
birth as well, for that matter,it doesn't have to be natural,
(30:49):
but we can do that for her.
I've had incredible births inhospital where literally there's
barely been anyone in the room,it's been pitch dark with like a
fake candle or two on the youknow, mattress on the floor,
birthing like a cat just withus.
Like I've had all kinds ofbirths, and I mean not as a
midwife then, as a supporter inthe system, right?
Yeah, birth worker for her.
(31:09):
So it's possible, but you as abirth worker have to work on
your baggage.
That's why that's a big part ofmy mentorship, right?
Because this is what I've seenas a midwife in the hospital.
I've seen doulas come in and notdo a great job.
Yeah, they're scared, they'relike daring headlights, they're
you know, they're just abystander when things happen,
they don't know what'shappening, they don't have that
(31:29):
understanding, and they don'thave the voice to speak up.
Yeah, they don't dare to.
You have to if you want to be abirth wicker in the system.
SPEAKER_01 (31:37):
Yeah, and you have to do it appropriately, right?
For it to be impactful.
SPEAKER_02 (31:41):
Yeah, which is important.
Yeah, which is when if you'regrounded within yourself,
there's no fight.
It's just very communication andlike flows, you know, and also
if the woman is very secure inher knowing about her own wishes
and her rights, she's also gonnabe very safe in just saying, get
away for me.
Like there's not gonna be aroutine baggage and examination.
I decline.
(32:02):
And then you say, She declines,goodbye, you know, and it's very
clear.
Yep.
SPEAKER_01 (32:06):
And a lot of that comes from the preparation you
have done ahead of time.
Like you said, having that umdeep and safe relationship with
your client, which is soimportant.
SPEAKER_02 (32:16):
Yeah, and another aspect that's so important if
you're gonna work and sustainworking in the system that is
going to show you a lot of birthtrauma happening, is to debrief
the births you attend that arelike that.
And so that's another reallyimportant component in the
mentorship.
It continues that we meetmonthly for birth debriefs and
QA's for my students so thatthey can come back and they can
(32:38):
share if they've had theseexperiences or the good ones
too, for that matter.
SPEAKER_03 (32:41):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (32:50):
I see that as make or break for you to survive as a
birth worker, truly.
If you don't have a communitythat you can debrief with,
you're not gonna survive forlong.
You have to, they're big.
Both the magical ones and theamazing ones and the traumatic
ones, you have to have a spaceto share about them.
SPEAKER_01 (33:05):
Right.
I totally agree.
That's true, to process thosesometimes.
And absolutely, that is vitallyimportant.
I and I uh as I trained you,Liz, I teach very much the same
thing that um, yeah, you needsomeone or people to be able to
process some births with this.
Is hard work, right?
It can be very difficult work todo.
Yeah, it's so impactful.
(33:26):
Yes, but it's also andrewarding.
It's just as rewarding as it isdifficult.
So we're grateful for that.
Yes, yes, it's so true.
Just like you said, an amazingbirth experience or a very
traumatic birth experience.
We get to touch on all of those.
Those are gonna come across comeacross our awareness for sure.
Wow.
What incredible work you do.
(33:48):
Gosh, you're stirring a lot ofcool things within me, which I
appreciate.
Um, all right, let me see on ourtime.
So, Anna, is there uh uh wherecan people find more about your
offerings and more informationabout you and your work?
SPEAKER_02 (34:06):
Sacredbirth international.com.
Okay, awesome.
SPEAKER_01 (34:10):
Very cool.
So you do all all your work,your trainings are online and
virtual, so accessible acrossthe world.
Yeah.
Okay, okay, love that.
I love that.
We will put that in our shownotes so we'll have that that
link ready um for people toexplore because I think the work
you're doing is so incrediblyimportant.
SPEAKER_02 (34:29):
Thank you.
That's amazing.
Well, I'm happy to give you anaffiliate link if you want to
have that and present to anyonewho comes through.
SPEAKER_01 (34:37):
Oh, that would be incredible.
I I find this work you're doingincredibly important, speaks to
my soul.
Um, so as we wrap up, any as youlook back at our conversation,
we've talked about your journey.
We've talked about your work,and that has changed a lot over
your lifetime.
Um, any highlights you want togive us, or um as you look back
(34:58):
on on our conversation, any lastbits of information or wisdom
that you'd like to share?
SPEAKER_02 (35:04):
I just remember one of the absolute first births I
ever attended, which was a homebirth for this first time mama.
And I remember being calledactually away from my hospital
shift as a student to come tothis home birth.
And I arrive and it's so quiet.
And I walk into this woman'shome that I've attended a few
times before Queen Italy, and Iwalk in, I was like, Where is
(35:26):
everyone?
It's so quiet.
And then I just heard her, I canhear her moaning, and she's in
the um on the veranda, whichthere's a birth pool, and her
husband is sitting holding herhands, and she's in the you
know, birthing phase of actuallybearing down and birthing her
baby, and he is the best midwifeI've ever seen.
(35:48):
He's just whispering the rightthings, and he's so present with
her.
And the two midwives that arepresent are just sitting in the
corner quiet, and she justbirtheds her baby, she lifts it
up to put it to her chest, andthat is something I'll never
forget.
The first few births, they justput it so there, yes,
indulgeable.
Yes, and it was most like one ofthe most magical awe-inspiring
(36:13):
experiences of my life, and thatis truly what the birth is to
me.
That is how I view birth.
I've seen a lot of the oppositeas well.
But that was what the birth isfor me.
The other ones, they're notthat's not the birth, but that's
a birth in captivity, it'ssomething very different.
But that that first time mamawho was just birthing her baby
(36:36):
in the water with her husband,essentially we were not really
there, we didn't do anythinganyhow.
We just witnessed her in herabsolute divine power, and that
is what I want to leave youwith.
SPEAKER_01 (36:46):
Okay, that's that's why you do what you do.
Yeah, because that that is thepen the potential.
Wow.
Well, Anna, thank you.
This has been um a reallyrefreshing conversation.
I sure appreciate your time.
And I look forward to a longassociation with you.
I would um love to keep intouch.
And thank you for sharing thiswisdom.
(37:08):
I think this gets lost in our inour work sometimes.
Um, so it's good to be groundedand come back to that.
So I appreciate that.
Yeah, I agree.
I agree.
Thank you so much for having me.
You're welcome.
So that is it for this episode.
We will wrap up this episode ofthe Ordinary Do La podcast.
Um, we have spent time with AnnaLundqvist from Sweden, and she
(37:28):
um her baby is Sacred BirthInternational, and I am excited
to dive into more of her umcontent and what she has
available.
Thank you so much for being withus here today.
As always, please make a humanconnection.
It is so important to connectwith other people.
Go out and reach out to someoneelse today.
You will appreciate it, and sowill they.
Hope to see you again next time.
SPEAKER_00 (38:01):
Thank you for listening to the Ordinary Doula
podcast with Angie Rosier,hosted by Birth Learning.
Episode credits will be in theshow notes.
Tune in next time as we continueto explore the many aspects of
giving birth.
Welcome back to the Ordinary Doula Podcast with
Angie Rosier, hosted by BirthLearning, where we help prepare
folks for labor and birth withexpertise coming from 20 years
of experience in a busy doulapractice, helping thousands of
people prepare for labor,providing essential knowledge
and tools for positive andempowering birth experiences.
SPEAKER_01 (00:51):
I am your host and I love coming on and talking about
all kinds of different topics inthis work.
Today we have a very amazingguest with us.
Her name is Anna Lundqvist.
She comes to us from Sweden andhas had a pretty amazing journey
in her own birth work.
So we are gonna um hear some ofAnna's story and some of the I
(01:14):
think I love her view of birth,and I think sometimes we shift
away from that.
I know a lot of times we shiftvery far away from a view that
Anna's been able to hold on topretty strongly throughout her
work.
So Anna, will you introduceyourself a little bit more and
then let's get talking in aboutwhat it is your work, the work
that you do?
SPEAKER_02 (01:33):
Beautiful.
Okay.
So yes, my name is Anna, and Iam currently living in Sweden.
I am Swedish and I'm from here,but I've spent most of my adult
life traveling and being verynomadic and lived for a very
long time on and off inAustralia, where I also became a
midwife.
Now I'm actually deregisterednow and have stepped into the
(01:54):
role of mentor and educator forSacred Birth International,
which is my my company that I'ma founder of.
And proudly today I am educatingthe new kind of birth worker
called the Sacred Birth Worker,um, which I'm hoping is gonna
take over the world and do greatwork.
Oh, I would love that.
(02:15):
The sacred into the birth room.
SPEAKER_01 (02:18):
Very cool, very cool.
Um, so tell us a little bitabout your journey to become a
midwife.
And you were in Australia,right?
Yeah.
You become a midwife, okay.
And was this a in the UnitedStates we have different types
of midwives?
We have um home birth midwives,which are CPMs or certified
midwives, or you know, we callthem direct entry midwives, and
(02:41):
then we have our CNMs who aremore hospital-based.
What was your journey?
What tell us your journey inAustralia?
SPEAKER_02 (02:48):
Well, the curious thing for anyone who doesn't
live in the US is that you haveso many different kinds of
midwives.
I think it's up to almost 21different kinds of midwives
around in different states andhere and there and everywhere.
So in most of the rest of theworld, it's one way only, like
which is traditionally nowadaysin university degrees, right?
(03:09):
So the difference with the onein Australia is that it was
direct entry mid referee, sothree years university degree.
And here in Sweden, for example,if you want to be a midwife, you
have to be a nurse first, andthen you have to work as a nurse
before you can become a midwife.
So it's a very differentjourney.
So those are the I think themain differences in other
(03:29):
countries that you could gothose two different routes of
being direct entry midwife ornurse first, but both are in in
the university basically.
SPEAKER_01 (03:39):
Okay, interesting.
Okay, because we have directentry, obviously, and CNM as
well, which are very differentpathways.
Very sometimes sparks a lot ofum feelings about that.
But um yeah, I I I love thetraditional midwifery model and
mindset.
So, okay, so you were midwifeand practiced in Australia.
(04:01):
Um, did you also practice inSweden?
SPEAKER_02 (04:04):
Well, no, that's a different story.
I can just tell that thedifference between how I
actually entered midwifery wasfrom being a woman's work
facilitator for over a decade.
And so I was already holdingkind of ceremony and sacred
space for women where the focuswas to drop the masks and get
(04:25):
more embodied into who we are aswomen to reclaim our bodies, our
sexuality, our sensuality, ourself-love, our voice, our
expression in the world, and therite of passages of women, which
is both, you know, our firstblade, birthing, menopause,
which are you know women's riteof passages, right?
SPEAKER_03 (04:43):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (04:44):
So it's very involved in kind of sacred
women's business.
That's how I was kind of ledinto midriffery.
And so where I actually moved toin Australia is Byron Bay, was
Byron Bay, which is a very,maybe you know, a very kind of
alternative um place wherepeople from all over the world
gather.
There's so many differentnationalities who live in Byron,
(05:05):
they're drawn to the healing ofthe land because there's
crystals in the grid, it'scrystals in the earth there.
So has been for the indigenouspeoples of the land forever, and
a gathering place for theindigenous people.
So it's very much drawing peoplefrom all over the world, myself
included.
And in this area, they had abirth center and they had home
births, and it was a very highpercentage of home births, it
(05:28):
was like 20-25% home birthing,and almost the rest would birth
in a birth center.
So all very physiological,natural births, right?
And so when I was living there,that's when that was probably a
good fit for you, right?
Oh, yes.
I could never have become amidwife to go straight into the
hospital and be there.
I never wanted to be in thehospital.
Yeah, I already then knew what Iwanted to do, which was home
(05:50):
birth, midwifery.
And so I did the what you did,which was going through the uni,
but my mentorship throughoutthose three years was based
where I lived.
So I was attending home birthsand birth-centered births, as
well as doing shifts in thehospital.
So even though I did the kind oftraditional nowadays
traditional, which is not verytraditional, but you know, today
it's true, right?
(06:10):
Um university degree, uh, it wasbalanced by mainly of what I saw
was physiological naturalbirths, which actually is very
hard in our modern society todayto see.
Even that's true.
I was very, I was very much in abubble, a very strange
alternative bubble that therewas so much natural and normal.
SPEAKER_01 (06:31):
It's almost like you went back in time, I imagine,
before obstetrics was had astrong foothold in this work.
So you got to see a thing thatwe don't have much time or place
to see that anymore.
SPEAKER_02 (06:45):
So yes.
And I really noticed that goingback to Sweden, which was your
question, did I practice inSweden?
So because I didn't do the nursemidway free degree, I'm I was
actually not allowed to work inSweden.
It wasn't recognized because Iwasn't a real midwife according
to them, even though I'd donethese three years of uni
studies.
I'd been working for a few yearsby then.
(07:08):
I I still wasn't recognized asthat.
I would have to go back to unito become a nurse, and I have
zero interest in that.
So already coming back, I knew Iwouldn't enter in as a
registered midwife in thesystem, and I also didn't want
to.
I actually, before then, alreadyin Australia, I only worked for
a year in the hospital before Idecided to be a home birth
midwife, and I went out and didthat.
And so I already knew I didn'twant to work in the hospital, I
(07:32):
want to be I didn't want to bepart of the system, and so I
worked instead as kind of like aspiritual midwife or a midwife
dual hour.
So I and you know, I worked as abirth worker alongside instead
midwives, either at home births,and also sometimes I walked into
the hospital with my clients.
And that's how I started when Icame back to Sweden.
SPEAKER_01 (07:54):
Okay, okay.
Wow, what a probably difficultjourney in a lot of ways.
So tell me a little bit about,and I want to I want to revisit
some of that because my brain isfiring with a lot of questions,
and my heart is firing with alot of questions about that too.
Um, tell us a little bit aboutSacred Birth International and
(08:15):
what it sounds like thatembodies a lot of your work and
your philosophies.
Tell us a little bit about whatthat is.
SPEAKER_02 (08:21):
Yes, it is.
I'm so grateful that life hasled me here.
And that's the beauty, truly, Ifeel, when you follow your
intuition in your heart, youdon't let your logic and your
mind control your life.
And you just trust that the nextstep is going to unfold before
you.
You don't know the next step,but you just follow.
And that's how I feel like I'velived my life from the beginning
(08:43):
of you know, becoming a yogateacher and a woman's work
facilitator and all the things Idid before I even stepped into
midwifery, and then deciding tobecome a midwife in a foreign
country, not really knowing whatI was getting myself into, to be
honest.
Going through that, um, and veryquickly realizing I could never
work in that system and havingto have go through it for years
(09:06):
before I could actually step outwith my degree and with that
knowledge.
Um, it was very painful.
I have still, you know, I've hadto work through the the trauma
of being in that system and andand PTSD and witnessing so much
obstetric violence within thatsystem, even though I was so
lucky of seeing so much normal,I also saw the other side.
Yeah.
(09:27):
And so I knew I couldn't staylong and I really couldn't.
I barely made it to the firstyear in the hospital and going,
I just cannot do this anymore.
I have to step out of thesystem, which I knew was gonna
be punishing me because you haveto stay for a few years to then
get endorsed to be a proper homebirth midwife.
So I had to like find other waysto be a home birth midwife with
(09:47):
being the second of othermidwives and like working in
different ways, right?
And so, but I couldn't like myheart and my intuition said I
couldn't stay, I just couldn'tdo it to myself or to be in that
system.
I didn't know how though.
So that day when I resigned, Istarted my Instagram that I then
called The Spiritual Midwife,and which I was known for for
the first few years in mybusiness.
(10:08):
And I created online courseswhere I wanted to help women
understand how to optimize theirchances of having a natural
birth.
So I created the natural birthcourse.
I created a natural birthpodcast, and I just wanted to
serve and help women because Isaw that so few were actually
prepared, maybe wanting to havea natural birth and walking into
the system and being absolutelyrailroaded, right?
(10:29):
You know this.
Oh, absolutely.
The horror and the frustrationand the sadness and the grief
and the rage that I felt as amidwife seeing that was then
transmuted into I'm gonna dosomething, I'm gonna change
that, I'm gonna help dosomething with whatever I can,
right?
Yeah.
So I started as a spiritualmidwife for the first three
years before spiritual or forbefore Sacred Birth
(10:50):
International was born.
And I created my online courses.
I did a lot of birth traumahealing online in the whole
world.
A lot of African women came tome for that.
Um and I was working as a homebirth midwife in my community,
and then after those threeyears, COVID had happened.
It was mid-2021.
(11:11):
And where I was in Australia, Iwas just locked down.
Like I couldn't leave thecountry unless I actually was
going to move back to my homecountry.
Yes, that was the only reasonyou were allowed to travel.
And so by then my father had umstage three cancer, he's still
alive, but you know, he had thisprogressive cancer, and I didn't
(11:35):
know when I could leave, when Icould go back to see my blood
family, like my father, and likeI felt like I felt drawn to move
back home to be closer to them,and uh one thing, but just a lot
of things culminated to likeokay, it's time to actually
return to my homeland.
SPEAKER_01 (11:52):
Wow.
Again, following your intuition,probably, right?
SPEAKER_02 (11:56):
And meeting just what you said, the reality I
couldn't work as a midwife.
Yeah, my degree, what I hadworked so hard for, I'd gone
through all these years oflearning and you know, being in
this system I hated, just to getthis knowledge and information
and like have this certificatemeant nothing in my country.
So I had to reinvent myself.
I became that, you know, midwifedoula for about a year.
(12:17):
And then I fully deregisteredbecause I didn't want to be a
midwife anymore.
And that's where Sacred BirthInternational was born, because
I could no longer call myself amidwife.
So I kind of transitioned firstinto the spiritual midwitch, and
I call myself another spiritualmidwitch, kind of you know, like
some sort of what am I now?
(12:38):
I like they stole midwife, theystole that title, they say they
own it, and that if I'm notregistered, I cannot call myself
that, even though that's themost ancient woman's work, and
that has nothing to do with theobstetic nurses that you are
today as a midwife most of thetime, right?
SPEAKER_01 (12:53):
That's true, they're so different, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (12:55):
So different.
So I, you know, I've grievedthat a lot.
Oh, I bet still am because Iwill always be a midwife.
They can't take that away, butI'm not calling myself that
publicly anymore.
And that's where the SacredBirth International was born,
and also where I created my fullyear birth record training, the
Sacred Birthwork mentorship.
(13:17):
Yes.
Very cool.
Okay.
That's that's the journey,that's the story.
Now I'm going to start my fifthcohort in the end of January.
It's been two and a half yearssince the first cohort started,
and it's been an absolutelymagical journey.
SPEAKER_01 (13:33):
Okay, so um you bring a lot of more questions to
my mind, which I love.
Um I I want to touch on onething you talked about as you
were following your intuition.
You kind of described whatpeople do in physiologic birth,
right?
To be able to um be in tune withthe next steps, be able to
(13:54):
surrender, be able to moveforward and trust that inner
part.
So that's a really cool analogy,I think, to life.
Um, and we see that all the timein birth when we get to see
physiologic birth, right?
Which in some places is moredifficult.
So, Sacred Birth International,tell us about um you have
different courses, correct?
So if tell me first, if I'm apregnant person, um, what's
(14:18):
available there?
What are the tenets andphilosophies and kind of the
basis of those courses?
SPEAKER_02 (14:26):
Well, that is where the natural birth course and the
nourishing postpartum course andmy the maiden mother and maga
village exists.
So that is really for any womanwho is like want to consciously
conceive, is trying to conceive,is a birth nerd, but not yet a
mother, or is pregnant, is inher postpartum era, is in her
(14:50):
just mothering era, or is in hermaga years, her wise woman
years, or even Crown.
And so it's really for the fullspectrum of being a woman.
It's a village for everyone.
And in there, I also have mymentees.
I also have women like midwives,birth workers that have taken or
are taking my the businesscourse for birth workers where I
help business, you know, womenwho want to start their own
(15:13):
birth businesses to thrive bothin real life and online.
And I also have any clients thatcome to me for one-on-one.
So I do birth trauma healing, ofcourse, um still.
And I also offer online packagesto be like a birth worker for
women online as well.
So that's what kind of is onoffer for pregnant women, but
really any woman.
SPEAKER_01 (15:33):
Any woman.
I love that how inclusive thatis.
That's amazing.
Because yeah, there's that's afor some people a very small
time of life.
Um, it's very impactful thatstays with us.
But some people are gonna be intheir birthing years for a long
time, and other people it'squite a brief journey.
So that's pretty amazing.
Um, for someone who has seeninside the system and worked
(15:56):
inside the system, and whenyou're in a system, you get to
see all the warts, right?
All the ugly parts, um, whichand then and you came from
outside the system and then leftthe system.
What an incredible perspectiveyou have.
Um, so I would imagine thatgives you, you know, who you're
talking to, right?
Like the people that whatthey're going to be faced with,
(16:17):
um, and depending on where theychoose to give birth.
And one thing that'sinteresting, and I'm sure you
see this a lot, I think as I'veseen working with families over
20 years, no matter wheresomeone comes from or their
background or their profession,quite often people who are
seeking some kind of birthsupport have something inside of
(16:37):
them that says, regardless oftheir cultural surroundings,
that says, you know what, this Ican do this.
Like this people have been doingthis, women have been doing this
for thousands and millions ofyears.
There's something about thisthat I need to tap into.
So I think even in systems, whenwe grow up in these systems and
(16:58):
that's all we're surroundedwith, there's still something
innate inside that reaches forsomething different.
It sounds like you have a reallygood, you have created a pathway
that people can really tap intothat innate that is so common, I
think, in women.
Do they they feel something?
SPEAKER_02 (17:14):
Yes.
I mean, as women, we are bornwith intuition.
I truly believe that to a muchbigger and stronger degree than
men, actually.
And I think that's because ofour wound.
And yeah, and that only growsstronger when you become
pregnant, and that even explodesas your birthing, right?
(17:35):
And so we've been fooled andtaught that it doesn't exist, I
think, by because men don't haveit as strong as we do, and so
we've been gaslit for that, youknow, for a very long time.
And I think it's starting toresurface and become something
that we go at, yes, actually itdoesn't exist, but it takes time
(17:56):
to cultivate your relationshipwith that, and both for women
who you know just in generalwant to access that, but also
the absolute importance as birthworkers to cultivate our
relationship to our intuitionand be able to drop into our
heart consciousness and our wombconsciousness to serve women in
the birth space.
I think that is one of theabsolute biggest and most
(18:16):
important skills we have, whichis not really talked about in
any birth worker training that Iknow of, and something that's
very important to me andsomething that I focus very
heavily on in the sacred birthworker mentorship.
SPEAKER_01 (18:27):
And that's something that's not in textbooks, right?
SPEAKER_02 (18:29):
That's not something you'll find in It's feminine
wisdom, it's not breaking down.
SPEAKER_01 (18:33):
Yeah, exactly.
And it, yeah, it's passed down.
It's um and I and as you said, Ithink women come with that,
right?
They absolutely come with that.
So it sounds like creatingconfidence, right?
And that's something I seelacking so often in the people,
and and I, of course, work inthe United States.
And so um with a variety ofpeople and a variety of birthing
(18:54):
places, of course.
Um, but I think, and and and alot of for a lot of reasons, we
are out of touch with ourintuition.
We do not trust ourselves, we donot turn inward, we don't spend
time inward really.
And I think part of that is theum social media and or we have
(19:16):
access with our phones, we haveaccess to all this information.
We have access to all thisinformation out there that is
coming from others, but we don'tlook inward.
We don't spend time thinking,how do I feel about this?
How do I um how do I want tobirth?
What do I feel about birth?
We're looking to like whatinfluencer is saying, how should
(19:36):
I feel about birth?
Um, yeah, I think that's it'sharder in our world to tap into
that.
SPEAKER_02 (19:41):
Yes.
And you know what, we are soblessed that there is all this
access via our phones to allthis information.
But what is so important then isto have this strong relationship
to self and to your own innervoice so that you can take in
that information and then put itthrough your own internal
authority and inner knowing.
And go, like, does that resonatewith me?
(20:02):
Is that true for me?
And because that is notsomething we're taught really in
our culture, and not somethingthat we generally cultivate,
most women don't even know whatthat means or how that feels or
what to do.
Right?
SPEAKER_01 (20:16):
Yeah, it's a foreign feeling for some.
SPEAKER_02 (20:18):
Yeah, and so it's actually part of the natural
birth course.
There's a part where I teachabout my coaching tools about
how to access that and how tocultivate that because I think
this is so missing and it's key.
It's key to anything in life.
Being a birth worker, being abusinesswoman in birth, being a
you know, birthing womaneverywhere.
Like it is like actually, youall like the most important
(20:40):
thing is to check within yourinner knowing, not the external,
always the inner knowing.
SPEAKER_01 (20:47):
I love that.
Very cool.
Um, so I imagine, and I'vetaught many childbirth education
classes in hospital, out ofhospital, privately,
individually.
Um, and so much of the work, andit's hard to put all this into
some courses, right?
Depending on the style and thethe clientele of the course, so
(21:07):
much of it is um your mindset,what you go in expecting of
yourself, right?
So imagine in your natural birthcourse, you're helping people
prepare on a pretty foundationallevel from within, right?
Um, tapping inside because whatwe set out to do, what we
believe we can do is prettypowerful.
(21:27):
And I'm sure you've seen that inbirthing women a lot.
SPEAKER_02 (21:30):
Absolutely.
And also you birth the way youlive.
So if you're a person that livesdisconnected from your
intuition, your inner knowing,your body wisdom, if you if your
way of treating uncomfortablethings is to dissociate and not
sit with it, not feel it, notmeet the big emotions, then it
doesn't matter how many classesyou take, how much you learn,
(21:53):
how many books you read, howmany other stories you listen
to.
And I've had this very much asmy experience too with working
with women, right?
Doesn't matter what I or anyoneelse can do for you or share
with you, or you know, becauseif you don't have the
relationship with self, you'regonna birth the way you live.
So if you live disconnected,you're gonna have a disconnected
birth.
SPEAKER_03 (22:13):
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_01 (22:16):
So um I don't know about in Sweden, but I think in
the United States that's verycommon.
SPEAKER_03 (22:22):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (22:23):
Um, which is kind of sad, honestly.
Um, that there's so much morepotential that can come from our
experiences, right?
People can gain so much more ofthemselves, and it's really
quite empowering, I think, whenpeople are able to tap in, tap
into that.
SPEAKER_02 (22:39):
Yeah, birth can show you your biggest power as a
woman.
I mean, it's incredible, and itawakens women.
I mean, women a powerful birthexperience just awaken to their
own power and their own strengthand divinity, really.
SPEAKER_01 (22:52):
Yeah, they find out their capacity, right?
Like it's far greater than theyever imagined, I'm sure.
Um, very cool.
So tell me about you talkedabout you're starting your fifth
cohort.
Um, and it's tell me about thisprogram for birth workers.
SPEAKER_02 (23:06):
Yeah.
Oh, it's my baby.
SPEAKER_01 (23:08):
Oh, you love it.
SPEAKER_02 (23:10):
It's it's everything's come together,
right?
It's like, so I started as avery young woman of being 14
when I sat in a woman's circlefor the first time and I had a
mentor that was a you know, aMAGA wise woman.
And and ever since then, I'velike collected things.
I've been a student of life.
I've loved learning all thingsabout different healing
modalities and natural medicineand you know, women's kind of
(23:34):
women's sacred ancient business.
That's been my thing, right?
For like from 14 to like around30, right?
Before I entered into midrifere.
And so I've taken all of thatand baked that together with my
midwifery knowledge.
And I've created this reallylong, extensive, deep, holistic
training that is about sixmonths of an intensive learning
(23:55):
portal where we dive intoabsolutely everything.
In the first two, or about 10weeks, we dive on into your
birth imprint, your rite ofpassages, your maternal birthing
wisdom, your own experience ofhaving your first bleed in the
what that taught you about beinga woman, her story, like the
midrify, but also story ofwitches, like vice women, you
(24:16):
know, all of it.
We dive on into the sisterhoodwind and the witch wind, and our
relationship to our intuitionand the lack thereof, our
relationship to our body, oursexuality, our sensuality,
finding our own cervix, being inrelationship with our bodies so
we can help other women be inrelationship with their bodies,
right?
Our own voice, relationship toauthority, so we can be strong
birth advocates and speak up forwomen and protect them in the
(24:39):
system.
Like we go into feminineleadership and what that looks
like, and you know, cultivatingthem for 10 weeks to be the
sacred spaceholders that theyneed to be, holding circles,
ceremonies, mother blessing,postpartum ceremonies, all of
that, right?
Before we even start withconscious conception, pregnancy.
We go into, of course, all thedepth of physiological birth,
(25:00):
natural birth, how to supportit, and then we dive on into the
postpartum, made-in-to-mothertransition, all with a very kind
of holistic spiritual alsoaspect to all of it, not just
the medicalized stuff.
Like there's a part of that too,because I am a midwife and I can
bring that too.
And then we dive intomedicalized birth, talk about
the different kind of variationsof normal, like breach and twins
(25:21):
and be backs and all of that.
And we talk about the trueemergencies.
We talk about the natural, orsorry, the normal birth of
today, which is variants andinductions and epidurals and for
all the things, right?
And how to navigate that system,support someone and educate
someone about that system, theirroutines, all of the things, and
then we dive on into sacredbirth advocacy and in the end,
(25:42):
also a bit of sacred businessand marketing into that too.
SPEAKER_01 (25:45):
That's so cool.
SPEAKER_02 (25:46):
Really holistic, big, deep training for those who
want to not become um a doulaand don't want to become a
midwife, they want something inbetween.
And someone who also alreadysees birth as a rite of passage,
sees it as a very sacred eventin a woman's life, and who
really feels drawn to um holdsacred space and protect that.
SPEAKER_01 (26:12):
Wow, as well.
Gosh, that is incredible.
You just got me very excitedabout so many things.
Um, so it's some internal worktoo.
People taking this course aregonna be kind of a different
person at the end of that.
SPEAKER_02 (26:26):
Yes.
And so I have newbies who arejust like birth nerds and like,
whoa, I want to do this.
I love this, right?
I don't, you know, and I havemothers who've had a birth
experience or several themselvesand have woken to the power of
birth either through an amazingkind of positive birth
experience or through atraumatic one.
Both find this.
Yeah, I have doulas, midwives,doctors, nurses, lawyers from
(26:50):
the UN.
I have all kinds of differentpeople who've found this
mentorship.
It's absolutely amazing.
So there's it's really it'sbuilt for anyone.
So even if you're already abirth worker, you can join, or
if you're a total newbie canjoin, and it will serve you
both.
SPEAKER_01 (27:04):
Wow, wow, very cool.
Um, and I think you know,someone who's been a birth
worker a long time, somethingthat circles back to the why,
our big why, as we come back tothe basis of our work, right?
Which we can get distracted fromsometimes for sure.
I know I have been based onexperiences and um where I serve
(27:27):
and work sometimes can influenceall of that.
So very cool.
Okay, so tell me a little bit,something that that um I felt as
you were talking about that.
Um, working in the system.
It is say you you get this thisbackground, this foundational
training um that goes prettydeep into your own life.
(27:48):
And I and like you said, I thinkwhen when we're grounded and
solid, we can serve othersbetter, right?
When we are filling our own cup.
And then we go into the system.
Let's talk about that, like howwe work inside a system that's
difficult to work in.
SPEAKER_02 (28:07):
Yeah, you know, it is really, really hard.
But it's definitely doable.
And I think the number one keyto kind of survive working as a
birth worker within the systemthat is causing so much trauma
and harm, actually, to bothmothers and babies.
That is just the truth, um, isto have the the most deepest,
(28:30):
uh, safest relationship with youand your client.
So if you, you know, the longeryou can work together, the
deeper you can work together,the more in-depth discussions
and shares you can have that youcan really trust each other and
you can really educate her, andshe can feel really embodied and
(28:51):
sovereign in her decision makersbefore she steps into the
hospital.
You can be a much more safer andlike relaxed and like confident
in your advocacy for her.
It does, you know, it's hard toadvocate for someone who's
wishy-washy.
SPEAKER_03 (29:06):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (29:08):
If I ever step into the hospital system with them,
that we do extensive workbeforehand.
We talk about all the routineprocedures and all the ways that
things can happen andinterventions that are within
the system just naturally bydefault, it just happens like
that.
SPEAKER_01 (29:22):
The realities, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (29:24):
And I very much educate her on the law and her
human rights as a woman and as ahuman being and as a birthing
woman, and really instill thatin her so there's no doubt in
her that she can absolutelydecline absolutely everything.
If she wants to walk in thereand not be touched and not have
anyone in her room, essentiallythat is her right.
Yes, you're gonna have to fightfor her a lot if that's really
(29:44):
truly her, and she shouldprobably birth in the hospital
if she wants to have absolutelydifficult, but yeah, you know,
but if that is her choice, thatis also her right.
Like no one can, there's no lawthat tells you otherwise.
The patient's law is very clear,you have to informed them
consent for everything.
So if she is very embodied andunderstand that if you made a
had a you know, if you've done agood job as a birth worker, she
(30:06):
will feel confident in that.
And so then you write a birthplan that they'll probably throw
out, but you have it in yourhand about what she's wanting
and not wanting, and then youcan very easily advocate for her
for that, which is gonna be yourmain job in there, and it's not
the greatest, more most fun job,it's a very sacred job that you
have.
It's not fun, it's not the whywe are there.
We want to be with woman, right?
We want to serve her, but you'regonna have to be that advocate
(30:28):
too.
So you need to have a strong,clear voice that is so grounded
in your knowing that you areserving the woman.
It's not about you, it's abouther and her wishes, and you have
that on print and you'readvocating for her.
When we have that, we canactually really safeguard women
to have natural births andempowering births in any kind of
birth as well, for that matter,it doesn't have to be natural,
(30:49):
but we can do that for her.
I've had incredible births inhospital where literally there's
barely been anyone in the room,it's been pitch dark with like a
fake candle or two on the youknow, mattress on the floor,
birthing like a cat just withus.
Like I've had all kinds ofbirths, and I mean not as a
midwife then, as a supporter inthe system, right?
Yeah, birth worker for her.
(31:09):
So it's possible, but you as abirth worker have to work on
your baggage.
That's why that's a big part ofmy mentorship, right?
Because this is what I've seenas a midwife in the hospital.
I've seen doulas come in and notdo a great job.
Yeah, they're scared, they'relike daring headlights, they're
you know, they're just abystander when things happen,
they don't know what'shappening, they don't have that
(31:29):
understanding, and they don'thave the voice to speak up.
Yeah, they don't dare to.
You have to if you want to be abirth wicker in the system.
SPEAKER_01 (31:37):
Yeah, and you have to do it appropriately, right?
For it to be impactful.
SPEAKER_02 (31:41):
Yeah, which is important.
Yeah, which is when if you'regrounded within yourself,
there's no fight.
It's just very communication andlike flows, you know, and also
if the woman is very secure inher knowing about her own wishes
and her rights, she's also gonnabe very safe in just saying, get
away for me.
Like there's not gonna be aroutine baggage and examination.
I decline.
(32:02):
And then you say, She declines,goodbye, you know, and it's very
clear.
Yep.
SPEAKER_01 (32:06):
And a lot of that comes from the preparation you
have done ahead of time.
Like you said, having that umdeep and safe relationship with
your client, which is soimportant.
SPEAKER_02 (32:16):
Yeah, and another aspect that's so important if
you're gonna work and sustainworking in the system that is
going to show you a lot of birthtrauma happening, is to debrief
the births you attend that arelike that.
And so that's another reallyimportant component in the
mentorship.
It continues that we meetmonthly for birth debriefs and
QA's for my students so thatthey can come back and they can
(32:38):
share if they've had theseexperiences or the good ones
too, for that matter.
SPEAKER_03 (32:41):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (32:50):
I see that as make or break for you to survive as a
birth worker, truly.
If you don't have a communitythat you can debrief with,
you're not gonna survive forlong.
You have to, they're big.
Both the magical ones and theamazing ones and the traumatic
ones, you have to have a spaceto share about them.
SPEAKER_01 (33:05):
Right.
I totally agree.
That's true, to process thosesometimes.
And absolutely, that is vitallyimportant.
I and I uh as I trained you,Liz, I teach very much the same
thing that um, yeah, you needsomeone or people to be able to
process some births with this.
Is hard work, right?
It can be very difficult work todo.
Yeah, it's so impactful.
(33:26):
Yes, but it's also andrewarding.
It's just as rewarding as it isdifficult.
So we're grateful for that.
Yes, yes, it's so true.
Just like you said, an amazingbirth experience or a very
traumatic birth experience.
We get to touch on all of those.
Those are gonna come across comeacross our awareness for sure.
Wow.
What incredible work you do.
(33:48):
Gosh, you're stirring a lot ofcool things within me, which I
appreciate.
Um, all right, let me see on ourtime.
So, Anna, is there uh uh wherecan people find more about your
offerings and more informationabout you and your work?
SPEAKER_02 (34:06):
Sacredbirth international.com.
Okay, awesome.
SPEAKER_01 (34:10):
Very cool.
So you do all all your work,your trainings are online and
virtual, so accessible acrossthe world.
Yeah.
Okay, okay, love that.
I love that.
We will put that in our shownotes so we'll have that that
link ready um for people toexplore because I think the work
you're doing is so incrediblyimportant.
SPEAKER_02 (34:29):
Thank you.
That's amazing.
Well, I'm happy to give you anaffiliate link if you want to
have that and present to anyonewho comes through.
SPEAKER_01 (34:37):
Oh, that would be incredible.
I I find this work you're doingincredibly important, speaks to
my soul.
Um, so as we wrap up, any as youlook back at our conversation,
we've talked about your journey.
We've talked about your work,and that has changed a lot over
your lifetime.
Um, any highlights you want togive us, or um as you look back
(34:58):
on on our conversation, any lastbits of information or wisdom
that you'd like to share?
SPEAKER_02 (35:04):
I just remember one of the absolute first births I
ever attended, which was a homebirth for this first time mama.
And I remember being calledactually away from my hospital
shift as a student to come tothis home birth.
And I arrive and it's so quiet.
And I walk into this woman'shome that I've attended a few
times before Queen Italy, and Iwalk in, I was like, Where is
(35:26):
everyone?
It's so quiet.
And then I just heard her, I canhear her moaning, and she's in
the um on the veranda, whichthere's a birth pool, and her
husband is sitting holding herhands, and she's in the you
know, birthing phase of actuallybearing down and birthing her
baby, and he is the best midwifeI've ever seen.
(35:48):
He's just whispering the rightthings, and he's so present with
her.
And the two midwives that arepresent are just sitting in the
corner quiet, and she justbirtheds her baby, she lifts it
up to put it to her chest, andthat is something I'll never
forget.
The first few births, they justput it so there, yes,
indulgeable.
Yes, and it was most like one ofthe most magical awe-inspiring
(36:13):
experiences of my life, and thatis truly what the birth is to
me.
That is how I view birth.
I've seen a lot of the oppositeas well.
But that was what the birth isfor me.
The other ones, they're notthat's not the birth, but that's
a birth in captivity, it'ssomething very different.
But that that first time mamawho was just birthing her baby
(36:36):
in the water with her husband,essentially we were not really
there, we didn't do anythinganyhow.
We just witnessed her in herabsolute divine power, and that
is what I want to leave youwith.
SPEAKER_01 (36:46):
Okay, that's that's why you do what you do.
Yeah, because that that is thepen the potential.
Wow.
Well, Anna, thank you.
This has been um a reallyrefreshing conversation.
I sure appreciate your time.
And I look forward to a longassociation with you.
I would um love to keep intouch.
And thank you for sharing thiswisdom.
(37:08):
I think this gets lost in our inour work sometimes.
Um, so it's good to be groundedand come back to that.
So I appreciate that.
Yeah, I agree.
I agree.
Thank you so much for having me.
You're welcome.
So that is it for this episode.
We will wrap up this episode ofthe Ordinary Do La podcast.
Um, we have spent time with AnnaLundqvist from Sweden, and she
(37:28):
um her baby is Sacred BirthInternational, and I am excited
to dive into more of her umcontent and what she has
available.
Thank you so much for being withus here today.
As always, please make a humanconnection.
It is so important to connectwith other people.
Go out and reach out to someoneelse today.
You will appreciate it, and sowill they.
Hope to see you again next time.
SPEAKER_00 (38:01):
Thank you for listening to the Ordinary Doula
podcast with Angie Rosier,hosted by Birth Learning.
Episode credits will be in theshow notes.
Tune in next time as we continueto explore the many aspects of
giving birth.
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