February 7, 2025 • 55 mins
Key Takeaways:
- When we put others in a box, we equally put ourselves in a box too.
- The benefits of plant medicine and how energy healing opens up more channels to creativity.
- Everyone is inherently spiritual, reconnecting is key- whilst being mindful of spiritual escapism.
Bjorn Lestrud's awakening began with a profound realization while working in corporate, leading him to embrace a path of personal development and spiritual exploration. His journey took an unexpected turn during a serendipitous trip to Tulum, Mexico, where he discovered the transformative power of plant medicine, setting the stage for continuous spiritual growth.
Book Mentioned: The Universal Principles and the Metamorphic Technique: The Keys to Healing and Enlightenment
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Kertia (00:00):
Hey everyone.
So today on the Other Side ofFear podcast, I have today my
guest, bjorn Lestrud, who workswith people to help them address
the energetic blocks they'reexperiencing, and he facilitates
healing through sound andself-expression.
He is the founder of BlueDragon Healing, which is
(00:21):
accompanied by the Blue DragonHealing podcast.
So during our conversation heshared a bit of his personal
journey with finding andembracing his spiritual path
through witnessing thespontaneous healing of a
friend's badly hurt toe duringhis travels in Tulum, mexico,
(00:42):
and we also spoke about hisexperience using plant medicine
and the magic that came throughfor him when he did that.
And, to top it all off, heblessed us with some channeled
sound healing.
This was such a greatconversation.
I enjoyed it so much.
I am so grateful for hispresence on the podcast.
(01:03):
I hope you enjoy it too.
So last time when we spoke, wespoke about the spiritual
journey that you were on and howthis led to the work that
you're doing right now.
But I'd love to hear more about, I'd love for you to get into
(01:25):
what happened.
How did you become open andjust reconnected to yourself?
All the good stuff.
Bjorn Lestrud (01:32):
Yeah, I'll definitely get into that, but I
would also say that, in terms ofspiritual journey, definitely
still on one of those.
Yeah, of course.
Kertia (01:44):
It hasn't stopped.
Yeah.
Bjorn Lestrud (01:48):
It has its way with me, all right.
Well, it started really with anawakening 10 years before I
even started traveling.
I had been working in corporateAmerica in sales for a few
years and doing really well interms of how much money I was
(02:15):
making, how I was performing atmy job and all of that, but
struggling with a lot of anxietyand I had high blood pressure.
I was very overweight.
I was about I think I'm at themaximum.
I was about 270 pounds and Ifinally started to get back into
(02:42):
personal development and I wasstudying Bob Proctor and reading
about all this stuff aboutparadigms and how the mind works
, and there was just a breakingpoint and it happened, not like
gradually, there was a moment,so I was in work for the day.
(03:03):
Well, I guess first to explaina little bit about the whole bob
proctor thing and why itmatters and why I brought it up.
He has this thing that he well,he's dead now.
Rest in peace.
But he had this thing he calledthe stick person concept and it
was a mental model for how themind works.
And so it was.
You draw a big circle and thenput a line through the middle of
(03:27):
it and top of that circlerepresented the conscious mind,
the bottom half represent thesubconscious, and then there'd
be like another little stick anda tiny little circle at the
bottom representing the body.
So the you know, the mind islike way, way bigger than the
body in this diagram.
And so he had this programcalled a success puzzle and one
(04:02):
of the pieces it was aboutparadigms and how we're
influenced by patterns andthoughts before we're able to
consciously reject them becausewe're too young, too
impressionable.
And there was an image with thestick person concept where he
had the circle there but the top, like part of the circle was
open, there was nothing thereand it showed like this baby,
basically there, with all thepeople around them and all the
thought forms were just goingright into the baby's head.
Kertia (04:20):
Yeah, yeah.
Bjorn Lestrud (04:22):
So I, I, I'll, I'll, I'll leave that where it
is for now.
Yeah, I went to, I was at workand just thinking to myself, you
know, I'm like, just thinkabout what the most painful
memory in my life is.
So I thought about that and Iwrote something down.
(04:42):
So I thought about that and Iwrote something down and then I
said what am I most grateful forright now in my life?
And so I thought a bit, I wrotesomething down and then I asked
the question would I have thisthing that I'm most grateful for
if I did not have theexperience that I consider to be
(05:03):
the most painful?
And I realized, no, in fact Iwould not have it.
And so in my mind, what Iactually saw in that moment was
the image of the stick personwith the top missing, flip
upside down, and I saw all thesethought forms spilling out like
(05:25):
just falling out of the head.
And as I stood up and I startedwalking out of the building, um
water, you know, tears, butjust gushing down my face.
But it was so surreal.
It wasn't like this feelingthat I would get in the past
where I'd be sobbing or cryingabout something.
(05:47):
It was just like effortlessrelease, just through my eyes
and it was so euphoric andwonderful that I went out and
normally I would walk homebecause I lived downtown and I
had a high rise and so my workwas close by eight, nine minute
(06:08):
walk.
But I was so swept up in themoment I walked the wrong
direction without even realizingit.
I probably went like 20 blocksthe wrong way and I was just in
such bliss.
Of course, from that point on,that really opened my system up
and started making me moresensitive to energy.
(06:29):
And so the next day, justtrying to go into work, as soon
as I entered that building, mystomach just hurt so bad and I
was like, oh my God, I can't behere anymore.
Yeah, so that was a very abeginning and I went through
(06:50):
many cycles of stuff.
But about 10 or 11 years laterI landed in a place called Tulum
in Mexico, after I had beentraveling the world for about
five years.
I did not go to Tulum because Iwas intending to do some sort
(07:13):
of spiritual exploration.
I had no beliefs or intentionsabout shamanism or really even
about ayahuasca or any, orspirit guides or anything yeah.
I mainly went there because Iheard it was a cool place,
relaxed place to hang out andthat it was peak COVID and it
(07:34):
was one of the places people hada reputation that people could
go and there were fewerrestrictions.
And that's the environment Iwanted to be in was a place with
fewer restrictions.
So I went there and I had afriend down there Seemed like a
good place to go.
I was invited so I showed upthere and then my friend was
(07:55):
there, like I said, and he gotinto like an accident with his
foot and he hurt his toe.
It got smashed and it was likesuper black and blue.
Kertia (08:07):
Yikes.
Bjorn Lestrud (08:08):
To the point where anyone who saw his foot,
would you know, tell him youknow your toenail is going to
fall off Right.
Kertia (08:17):
Yeah.
Bjorn Lestrud (08:18):
Cause it was so black, you know.
Kertia (08:19):
Yeah.
Bjorn Lestrud (08:20):
So I had just seen him two days prior with the
black and blue foot and I sawhim again and he said look at my
foot.
I look at his foot and totallynormal the whole foot, no
discoloration.
The toenail, totally normalcolor.
(08:40):
Nothing had fallen off, like itwas, like nothing had ever
happened.
Wow, normal color nothing hadfallen off, like it was like
nothing had ever happened, wow.
So I asked him what, how didthis occur?
You know, I was fat, prettyfascinated by it, and he said,
yeah, he went.
He went to an energy healingceremony called the light portal
goodness and so, uh, I wasinvited to go next week because
(09:07):
I did it once a week, so I wastoo curious to say no at that
point, and I witnessed somethinglike that.
So I went, and so was thisenvironment, where they had a
circle of people around the room, like 15, 20 people, and there
were maybe four or fivefacilitators that were leading
(09:30):
us through different healingmodalities in one setting.
One person had us doing whatthey called biodynamic breath
work, so we were doing openmouth breathing while doing some
Qigong slash yoga type movementthere was having.
(09:55):
They had us sit down, actuallylay down on our backs, and they
had us continue to breathe.
And then there was someoneplaying drums, someone was
chanting, like lots of differentthings happening at one time.
Several practitioners weregoing around the room like doing
physical, like facial release,body work on the participants,
(10:21):
looking to release energeticblockages, but, like you know,
very physical way, and somepeople were screaming because it
hurts so bad and some peoplewere crying because they were
releasing something.
It was just.
It was a wild environment.
Kertia (10:40):
Yeah.
Bjorn Lestrud (10:41):
And so this woman , yeah, and uh.
So this woman, uh, you know,she was from this long lineage
of Muslim healers.
She came up to me and westarted working on me and man, I
mean, she's a tiny woman, butit hurt a lot when she worked on
me and after she left, Istarted to laugh and I couldn't
(11:04):
stop.
Left, I started to laugh and Icouldn't stop and it was like a
release of some kind and it feltreally good.
Kertia (11:09):
Yeah.
Bjorn Lestrud (11:09):
And I thought to myself maybe I should explore
this a little more.
Yeah, so I set up a privatesession with Ina and Jose.
They were two of thefacilitators there, two of the
facilitators there.
They did private sessions where, you know, would work on you
(11:29):
for about an hour and a halfjust digging into the fascia and
blockages and so forth.
And then she came to myapartment and, uh, we did this
on the floor, and then her,myself and her partner, jose,
would sit there and we sat thereand talked for a little bit
about what she saw, becauseshe's a seer.
Oh, I saw this energy from yourfather's side, this fear, this
(11:53):
anger and this sadness and fearfrom your mother's side, and I
saw this jaguar spirit guide andthis Native American shaman
spirit guide, and so on and soforth.
And then the next part of theirprivate session was meet your
(12:14):
guides.
Before I explain what happened,though, because that is the
culmination of the privatesession, I'll preface it by
saying that, for probably two orthree years leading into this,
I had been suffering from a sortof an arthritis in my knees,
where, whenever I would besitting, I would have to
(12:34):
straighten my legs out withintwo or three minutes or they
would get super stiff.
And this was happening all thetime, constantly.
It was chronic, bothered me alot.
So, anyways, I'm in thisprivate session and now the next
part is okay.
So we told you about yourguides.
We told you about the, the, theuh blockages that we found.
(12:57):
Now we're going to.
You know you can meet yourguides.
And so Jose served me a plantmedicine called hape, which is
some people call it shamanicsnuff.
It's mainly a tobacco product,but it has some other elements
to it, plant elements Dependingon the hape.
(13:20):
There's many kinds, but they'remade by the indigenous groups,
by the Amazon, and they doprayers over them and they use
different elements from naturein them that have psychoactive
aspects.
It could be ashes from aceremonial fire and then a lot
of times they use the bark froma sunu tree it depends.
(13:40):
So they serve me this hape andyou take it in the nose right.
So when someone serves you hape, they have a what's called a
tepe.
I actually have one right here.
I'll grab it yeah it's lookslike this well, they all look a
little different, but so ifsomeone is serving you, right,
(14:01):
they're basically you're puttingit in your nose and then
they're blowing it into yournose.
Didn't that burn?
Oh, yeah, it did.
It burned a lot, and uh, so heserved me the hot pay.
I didn't know what to think.
I'd never taken hot pay before.
Kertia (14:23):
Oh, my God.
Bjorn Lestrud (14:25):
And then he starts, he gets up and he walks
around behind me and startsshaking maracas in my ears, and
so all this stuff is happening,but in my mind wants to
internalize and process what'sgoing on in the space.
But because he's shaking themaracas in my ears, there's too
(14:45):
much noise so I can't logicallythink my way through what's
occurring in the room.
Oh man, then he starts chanting.
I don't know whatever he waschanting, and that started
(15:07):
making me feel really activated.
And the next thing I know I'mchanting and I can't stop.
It was this feeling like somekind of energy was moving
through me that I was not reallyfamiliar with.
Yeah, and it was determined topush its way through and there
(15:28):
was a lot of heavy, dense energythat was in the way and it was
just, oh man.
So it was like you can almostsay a traumatic experience for
me, but also amazing, but alsoamazing.
(15:49):
And so I I was chanting andthen I just got sick on the
floor and, um, you know, purgeda lot and pretty much had to lay
on the floor for three or fourhours, didn't even want to get
on the couch and lay down, whichis right next to me, because I
want the floor because I feltmore stable.
Yeah, that's how dizzy I was.
Kertia (16:06):
Yeah.
Bjorn Lestrud (16:08):
But then the next morning, when I woke up, all of
the pain from my knees was gone, completely gone, and has not
come back since.
Kertia (16:19):
Wow.
Bjorn Lestrud (16:22):
And so that was like an initiation, you could
perhaps call it.
Kertia (16:28):
Yeah, what was your reaction?
Bjorn Lestrud (16:32):
Confusion and delight.
Kertia (16:40):
Oh, my goodness.
Bjorn Lestrud (16:44):
So that was a beginning and from there I
started working with differentplant medicines.
I mean, I had been working withSanta Maria, or what people
call cannabis, for many years,but in a different way and not
really ceremonially.
But this ceremonial way ofworking with a plant medicine
(17:05):
was so different to me and sopowerful, so I did a session
with a medicine called bufo.
That um Well, how do I put this?
I was Bufo is like, if you'renot familiar with it, there was
(17:29):
a Simpsons episode a long timeago where they were like licking
toads.
It has to do with the toadvenom or toad secretion.
Kertia (17:36):
Yeah.
Bjorn Lestrud (17:37):
So you smoke it generally and the effects are
short lived but very, verystrong, so usually like 15, 20
minutes maximum.
You really are into it.
And so I was in a privatesession to do Bufo.
And so they told me you know,inhale, inhale, inhale until we
(17:57):
tell you to stop.
And basically I inhaled untilall the smoke was gone from the
thing.
It was a long, slow breath.
And then they told me whenyou're done, throw up your arms
in the air and then just gentlyfall back onto the mattress on
the floor.
So I did it and then when I fellback, I was falling in just a
total bliss state.
And then, when I fell back, Iwas falling in just a total
(18:21):
bliss state.
And then I felt this reallysharp pain in the center of my
forehead, almost like someonewas dinging a fingernail into my
head.
And then I just saw thisexplosion of blue light
everywhere.
And the next thing I know andkeep in mind I'm laying in a
(18:44):
very, very deep trance, like notmoving.
Next thing, I know this songjust erupts itself through me
and I'm singing this song thatI've never heard in my life
before, song that I've neverheard my life, uh, before.
(19:05):
And I'm not just singing, but,uh, my voice is going to these
very high pitches and very lowsounds that I'd never been able
to even make before, and it feltso incredible when I was
singing, uh, and that wasanother sort of beginning for me
, the beginning of seeing whatwas possible through voice and
(19:29):
through the lineage that I'm apart of.
Kertia (19:32):
Yeah.
Bjorn Lestrud (19:35):
And it just sort of kept growing, kept expanding.
I would go to ceremonies andthen people would want me to
chant, they'd want to hear mesing, and it kind of progressed
organically.
Eventually, the place where Istarted at the Light Portal
invited me to actually become afacilitator with them.
(19:57):
So I became one of the corefacilitators for the light
portal and, uh, I had a periodof time where I was just amazing
and doing the healing work,doing all that, and then then I
just hit this massive wall ofdepression that uh, just kind of
slammed me.
(20:18):
You know like it was like allday long, every day, just
intense sadness.
All the time I was processingsomething, I didn't know what
exactly.
Then I figured out later it hadto do with a birth trauma, of
all things.
But in so doing I met anotherone of my teachers who was this
(20:39):
uh, I met another one of myteachers who was this indigenous
, trained yes, you could callhim a shaman they don't use the
term in the Shipibo, where hewas trained, they use the term
maestro and I started doingprivate sessions with him and he
helped me a lot move throughthe energies.
And then I sat in an ayahuascasession that he did and
(21:01):
completely reset my system, andfrom there I worked with him and
this is when I started learningabout the power of remote work.
I did what's called a plantspirit diet, where you enter in
sort of a period of agreementlike I'm not going to eat
(21:21):
certain foods, I'm not going toengage in certain behaviors for
the period of the diet, and sodoing I'm going to connect
deeper with this plant andconnect with this plant as my
teacher.
So I did.
But the plant that I wasdieting was called marosa, but I
never actually physicallyconsumed the plant that I was
dieting was, uh, called Marosa,but I never actually physically
(21:43):
consumed the plant.
Everything was done throughsound.
He implanted the energetic seedof the Marosa in my field using
uh chanting.
And we would meet every two,three weeks.
He would give me a new chantover Zoom and then I would work
(22:04):
with the chant every day, listento it once, then do a grounding
ritual with a mapacho tobacco.
After about a month into doingthat, I was going for a walk one
evening and I started feelingthis warm sensation like right
(22:26):
in the middle of the upper partof my chest.
And then the warm sensationspread and became it sort of
felt like an opening of thatspot, like a flower petal sort
of opening up.
And then I stepped into thisplace of complete and utter
(22:49):
euphoria and oneness witheverything around me.
Uh, it was like everywhere Ilooked, in the air and all
(23:14):
around me, I would see the mostbeautiful blend and swirls of
colors I'd ever seen, and itwould dynamically shift and
change no matter where I lookedor turned my head, but it was
always equally as beautiful.
And any object I looked at,whether it was a tree, the road,
a building, I would just fallin love with and I was just so
it was just unconditional love,just pouring through me, yeah,
(23:35):
but in a very physical way,embodied way, and it was so
incredible.
I, yeah, just amazing, and soreally opened my eyes like the
power of healing and power ofthe quantum field for healing.
Because, you know, he wasn'tdoing physical work on me, he
(24:00):
wasn't, I wasn't even taking aphysical plan yet I had this
experience and it was soincredible and it was all remote
, you know, and uh.
And so then I had, shortlyafter that, I had to go back to
the states because my father wasin bad health and then I was
needed there, and so when I cameback, I started learning, like,
(24:23):
how to play with tuning forks,and I was using tuning forks a
lot and I got certified inbiofield tuning with tuning
forks and then I eventuallyrealized how to integrate what I
learned with the tuning forksinto the chanting that had
already been activated within me.
And then I started doing like asound healing but like a
(24:46):
shamanic type of way, and it'sjust sort of progressed and
progressed.
And now I do like lives.
You know weekly live events oninsight timer.
I do private sessions.
I do a lot of different thingsdepending on what the person
needs and what people need, anduh, it's just been a really
(25:08):
crazy, uh, unusual journey, Iguess.
Kertia (25:13):
Yeah, oh, my goodness, what a journey Bjorn.
What a journey bjorn, what ajourney wow wow.
Bjorn Lestrud (25:22):
And now, right as you, as we're saying that, I'm
like this is a burning sensation, like right in the center of my
forehead, like right now.
You know, in this moment, it'slike sharing this stuff, is it
also moves energy?
Yeah it activates that.
Kertia (25:36):
Yeah, yeah, I know because, as you were speaking, I
was feeling your energy as well.
So it's very, the quantum feelis real.
It's very, very real.
Whenever I've had conversationslike this you know anything
spirituality, energy, work,anything like that like as I'm
(25:57):
sitting here, I can feel whatyou're telling me, right?
So, like as you're speaking, Icould feel the energy.
I could feel energy move.
It's very, very interesting Alot.
I don't say it in the momentbecause I want I don't want to
interrupt you I want you to tellyour story and share all of
your experience.
(26:18):
But I'm sitting with that andI'm just like wow, like I can
feel how, if I can feel thisthrough the computer, imagine
you feeling the whole thing.
You know, when you were goingthrough that process, I was just
like wow, that's profound.
Bjorn Lestrud (26:34):
It's incredible, isn't it?
And then, how two people canfeel the energy just sitting
here having a conversation usingtechnology, right.
Kertia (26:43):
Yeah.
Bjorn Lestrud (26:45):
Is there really any real difference of being in
the same room when we're in thesame virtual room?
Kertia (26:51):
Exactly In that sense energetically?
Bjorn Lestrud (26:53):
I don't think there is.
No, no, it's all quantum, it'sall energy and it's everywhere
know it's all quantum, it's allenergy and it's everywhere.
Maybe, uh, if someone, like,was really sweaty and they
smelled and I wouldn't be ableto smell them or something like
that.
Kertia (27:08):
But yeah, but energy, that that is always.
There's always an exchange ofenergy.
It's amazing, it's so amazing.
You know, and just like I wantyou to talk about now, how you
work with this with sound, um,with chanting in your work.
How do you because you're oninside timer, so are you so
(27:31):
you're purely?
Are you purely just workingwith sound and um, the language,
and tuning and the tuning fork?
How does that work?
What does that look like whenyou're working with a client or
on inside timer?
Bjorn Lestrud (27:46):
so I'll explain both.
These are it's the same, butalso different yeah so when I do
like an inside timer live, I'mtuning into the energy of the
group, the collective field.
So it's a little different thantuning into one person, a
little bit less personal.
(28:06):
Yet there are still issues thatwe're all connected to that
work on the level of the DNA, onthe collective.
So on a group event I usuallystart with tuning forks for a
few minutes and I just starttapping into the energy of the
group and I have four differentaudible frequencies that I move
(28:28):
through.
I start with the lower, I startwith a 144 and I keep going
with that until it's a.
The tuning forks give mefeedback relative to how the
group is settling into receivingfrom that frequency.
You can hear it in the sound,it's audible.
So once the sound reflects andsounds clear, then I know I can
(28:49):
move on to the next one.
And then there's a feeling toowith it, like oh yeah, it feels
right.
So I moved through 144, 174,417, 528.
And once everything feels justsuper calm and nice, tucked away
, settled, then I pull out myBuffalo drum.
Where do I have that here?
(29:12):
Which is this here and I startdrumming, and I start drumming
and then I start to sing and Ilet the energy carry the sounds
and listen to my body, to letthe sounds move and change how
(29:37):
they need to.
And so how it works on aspiritual level with me is I
have a primary guide that I workwith that takes the form of a
blue dragon.
So that's why I call my healingbusiness blue dragon healing.
And then there are manyenergies behind that guide that
(29:58):
shuffle forth and take turns, um, channeling through that, so
there'll be highs, lows, butalso rhythms within the tones
themselves, like a stuff likethat, right and uh.
So I do that for a while andthen I get a sense when it's
(30:21):
about time to, because that'spart of the performance you
could call.
It is about the foundationalenergies moving the, you know,
working on the blockages on adeeper level.
And the the, the drum, mirrorsthe heartbeat of the earth and
keeps people more grounded inthe experience and in their
(30:43):
bodies.
But people still float away,and so once we kind of reach
this sort of contra point, thenI break out my shakers and I
sort of do a little pattern,interrupt with the shakers for a
few minutes.
Kertia (31:03):
Yeah.
Bjorn Lestrud (31:03):
And then I bring out the and I do the resolution
with the drum, with the hassofter tones and a different
intention behind it.
With the chanting.
And then, as I'm done with thatand wrapping up, I bring the
tuning forks back out and I movethrough those frequencies again
, and this time they just goright through, and so then
(31:27):
people really receive thosetones right into their bodies.
And then I usually take out thesinging bowl at the end.
Now, when I'm doing like aprivate work, especially a first
session, it's a littledifferent in the sense that most
(31:47):
of the time I'm using tuningforks in my voice, very little
work with the drum because, well, energetically, I don't know.
Most people are familiar withthe chakra system, but not
(32:10):
everyone is familiar with thesetwo points above the head and
below the feet the earth and thesun star, kind of like the
battery systems within the bodyall the other seven chakras into
alignment and get the energyflowing.
So I'm spending most of my timejust working on those two
(32:45):
points, using tuning forks andusing my voice, and then, once
we're done, I'll usuallyincorporate.
And then, once we're done, I'llusually incorporate.
Uh, sometimes I'll actually usehape in the work and bring
things to a conclusion, butoverall the work is really about
(33:10):
expression.
It's about that everyoneactually has their own healing
expression.
Yeah, actually has their ownhealing expression.
Yeah, and this helps remove theblocks that prevent us from
bringing that forward yeah sothis, uh, for somebody new to
(33:34):
the work, this is a big.
the beginning of it is just likelearning how to communicate
better with yourself, and peoplegenerally say they tap more
into their creativity.
They start noticing shifts intheir energy.
Usually they're very palpableor observable differences.
(33:57):
But then I also have a lot likea longer program which is
actually designed not only tobring forward healing expression
but then to package it andcreate something real and then
build the assets to bring it outto the world.
Kertia (34:19):
Yeah, that's amazing.
It's very intriguing, veryfascinating.
I totally love what you'resaying right now, you know,
because a lot of people needthat.
A lot of people have so manyenergy blocks.
Bjorn Lestrud (35:01):
And sometimes, most of the times, most of us
don't know where the blocks are,but you know that there's
something there, but you kind ofdon't know where it is, what
it's coming from.
And when you have someone thatcan facilitate you working
through that, releasing that,however way that might look for
you, for each individual, thatthat's just amazing.
Yeah, thank you.
And I also am very sensitive to, personally, to the whole
concept of somebody telling me,for example, like if I receive
healing from someone, themtelling me how I should perceive
it, how I should think about it, what the energy was that they
(35:22):
worked on.
I take it all with a grain ofsalt, because to me the healing
is what arises in the moment andthe rest of it is filtered
through the mind, what someonetells me.
And so I do my best to refrainfrom trying to get into
(35:44):
someone's space and tell themhow to perceive it and how to
think about it, but just to givethem the space to just let them
feel it.
Yeah, exactly, it's very, it's avery individual experience and
you can only speak to your ownexperience, truly, and I've had
(36:05):
mentors that really did theopposite of that, and it took me
a long time to let go of it.
Kertia (36:16):
Maybe that's a part of your own learning.
Yes, it is.
Yeah, I think that's a part oftheir own journey.
You know, when you're on thespiritual journey, there's still
a lot of stuff that we have touncover, a lot of stuff that we
need to shed.
(36:36):
It doesn't matter how far alongyou are on the path.
You're still human, you'restill in the human body, you
still work with the human brain,so you still do very human
stuff oh yeah well, uh, I'm gladthat you can feel the humor of
(36:58):
that vibration.
Bjorn Lestrud (37:03):
At the moment I'm processing something that so
sometimes in the mornings I doautomatic writing and just to
get some extra guidance, I keepreferring to this thing they
call my secret jacket.
Yeah, yeah, apparently I'vebeen holding this like shame
(37:26):
around me that you know was veryhidden for a long time and now
it's processing and so I'mprocessing the layers of this
jacket and it's really strangebecause it's so strong, like it
doesn't prevent me from feelingthe energies or anything like
that, but literally I took someweed or some mushroom or, I
(37:52):
don't know, maybe any medicine.
Right now I would barely evenbe able to perceive it because
I'm so rooted into the feelingof what is moving through, and
sometimes I'll sit there and mywhole, like foot or left leg,
will just go ice cold and I canfeel like this energy, just like
(38:15):
shaking, moving, coming throughthere.
I'm like what are you up todown there?
You know it never ends.
Kertia (38:26):
No, it doesn't.
It doesn't.
It's a whole journey, but it's.
It's cool when I have theseconversations with different
people and I hear the differentexperiences and how healing has
shown up for them, how it lookslike for them, and you truly see
that you know there is no onesize fits all solution or way to
(38:50):
healing or, but it's very, it'svery personal to each
individual and you know,everyone perceives in a
different way, heals in adifferent way, feels in a
different way, and it's all justbeautiful.
You know, it all leads back tothat one principle and that's
(39:11):
what's the most important thing.
So I'm definitely here for it.
I want to know, because youknow you mentioned your guides
what is it like for you workingwith your guides?
Bjorn Lestrud (39:24):
When I connect to that.
Energy is the most wonderfulthing and it only happens in
presence.
So when I connect to that and Ifeel that it's like my
particular flavor, I guess thatI get is you could call it
(39:46):
effervescence.
The sense of bubbly joy thatjust kind of flows out and could
call it yeah joy, unconditionallove, peace.
But it has a certain vibrationto it.
(40:10):
It's not just this still thing,it's, it's alive, you know yeah,
yeah, I know it's hard todescribe, right, I can talk
about when I saw some of myguides, uh, but when I have seen
them, but there have beenmoments because I still haven't
(40:31):
fully like learned how tointegrate my spiritual sight
into just everyday.
Whenever I want type of myguides, for example, it's this
indigenous shaman and they tendto visit me a lot of times when
(41:00):
I'm doing like deep breath workand I'll get these visions that
are so powerful.
The energy of the visions justis so blissfully, uh know, and
when it flows through it's justlike this wave of pleasure yeah,
(41:23):
definitely.
Kertia (41:25):
Do you ever in those moments actively communicate
with your guides, or do youprimarily just receive the
visions in that moment?
Bjorn Lestrud (41:40):
I primarily in those moments.
I just received the visions andsometimes I'll get a message
with it yeah like.
There's one time I was in ameditation and right at the end
of the meditation I saw thisbook on a book stand.
I'd never seen the book before,no idea what it was.
(42:03):
It was bluish colored book andit was like this pep stand.
You'd seen a bookstore wherethe book's on display and then
there are other copies of it allaround, um.
But when I came out of thedream or the vision, I couldn't
remember the name of the book,but for some reason the author's
name kept circulating in myhead, even though I never read
(42:25):
the author's name when I saw it.
And so then I looked up theauthor's name that was
circulating through my head andI found the book on amazon
what's the book about?
it's called uh, it's hold on,let me just uh double check the
name of it.
It's called the universalprinciples and the metamorphic
(42:53):
Technique, the Keys to Healingand Enlightenment, wow.
Kertia (43:00):
Have you read it yet?
Bjorn Lestrud (43:02):
I have it.
It's a slow read.
It's super, super dense.
Kertia (43:06):
Yeah, it sounds dense.
It's the kind of book where youhave to read it slowly yes, it
is yeah yeah, I get it, Itotally get it.
Oh man, um, it's, that's suchan amazing journey, though.
(43:32):
I love it and I love.
I love your excitement as wellabout the journey that you've
been on.
It's, it's really cool.
Um, what would you say?
You know like, with all yourexperiences and your healing
journey and now with the workthat you're doing, what message
do you have for people?
Bjorn Lestrud (43:50):
that don't fall into the trap of spirituality in
the sense that I and I fellinto this trap of when I started
exploring spirituality.
I wanted to escape into it.
Kertia (44:07):
Yeah.
Bjorn Lestrud (44:08):
And so sometimes, for example, when people start
doing ayahuasca and they havethese experiences, they just
want to keep doing it all thetime and keep having those
experiences.
And the real healing happenswhen you just allow yourself to
feel what you need to feel inyour body and that it's okay to
(44:28):
do that and it's not going tokill you to do that and that
you'll feel better when you dothat.
And also I found it's helpfulto explore different healing
modalities and just see whatworks.
For me, some things have workedand others haven't, and it's
valuable input either way, evenif you try something that
(44:52):
doesn't work super well, younever know what benefit you
might've gotten from that, andit helps shape your awareness
too.
Kertia (45:03):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, and I love that you mentioned
that because you know that's.
That's one of the things Ithink you know, anyone.
For a lot of people I when youstart a spiritual journey and
you start to have experiences,the very human thing to do is to
want to escape into that world.
Right, like a lot of us, we'rejust like why are we here?
(45:25):
Why did we come here?
Why are we still here?
When are the aliens coming?
You know all these things.
Bjorn Lestrud (45:31):
When can I?
Kertia (45:32):
leave this place.
Bjorn Lestrud (45:33):
And it's like, oh , and I have this pain in my
body.
I don't want to feel it.
Kertia (45:38):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So it's a very human thing todo to then want to escape this
physical realm.
But you know, there is noescape, there is just a working
through right and you have to dothe work through portion of
that right In order to ascend.
But like, yeah, it's veryimportant that you mentioned
(46:02):
that, because it's so easy toget trapped into that and to
want to stay on that side.
But truly spirituality, likethis human experience, is a part
of spirituality.
Right, everyone is spiritual,everyone is born spiritual.
(46:23):
It's just that some of us havenot truly reconnected with that
aspect of ourselves and so a lotof us we're just walking around
, really disconnected.
But we're all born spiritualand you know, choosing to go on
(46:43):
a journey or being thrown intothe journey, however which way
it happens, for you it's reallyimportant not to try to escape
this reality, to realize thatthis reality is equally
important and is equally a partof that spiritual journey, a
part of that spiritual awakening.
Bjorn Lestrud (47:01):
As a matter of fact, it is vital for that it is
, and the most amazingexperiences that you can have in
healing occur through the body.
They're not just up here.
Kertia (47:14):
Yeah.
Bjorn Lestrud (47:17):
They're something that you can feel through your
whole body and that is realeuphoria yeah, yeah, exactly so.
Kertia (47:25):
Yeah, that was an amazing point that you made
there.
So you spoke about your program, you spoke about Blue Dragon,
healing and then I know there isthe Primal Path.
What is the difference betweenthese two?
Bjorn Lestrud (47:41):
Primal Path is just part of Blue Dragon Healing
.
It's the longer-term programthat I've been developing to
bring a person through all thesedifferent stages of discovering
their healing expression,learning how to practice it with
it and transform with it, andeventually learning how to share
it and create something thatthey can actually bring out into
(48:06):
the world a reflection of them.
Yeah, that's beautiful.
The PATH is kind of an acronymand it stands for four things.
P stands for pain, because thefirst stage of healing is
acknowledging the pain.
That's there.
The A in PATH stands forawakening, because once you've
(48:27):
acknowledged that pain, you thencreate an opening, because
you're opening yourself up tonew insights.
And then from there, the t inpath stands for transformation.
It's once you have an awakening, that's great.
But how can you have that typeof experience and make it a
regular thing through practice?
(48:49):
Right, and then transformationis all about ising the awakening
, the healing.
And then the H stands forheritage, because it's like,
okay, so you went through thistransformation, but how are you
going to now make the world abetter place and how are you
going to share what you'velearned with other people and
(49:09):
make a mark?
And so then that's the Helement.
Kertia (49:13):
I love that, bjorn, that's H element.
I love that, bjorn, that's sobeautiful.
I love that.
That sounds really cool.
What has it been like so far?
What have you noticed with thepeople that you work with so far
?
Any profound experiences, orwhat is it that they have
learned or integrated, howeverit looks for them?
Bjorn Lestrud (49:39):
learnt or integrated, however it looks for
them.
So the most common thingsespecially when people are
starting out because I thinkthat that's what people are
going to resonate the most withis that a lot of times, we as
human beings have relationshipissues with people from our past
that we haven't let go of anduh, and that affects our
self-relationship, how wecommunicate with ourself,
(50:01):
because essentially, by puttingsomeone in a box somewhere,
we're putting a part of ourselfin a box somewhere.
so is a reintegration of ourparts of self and our, our own
expression, and how we reallychoose and want to show up
authentically in the world in away that deeply resonates with
(50:23):
with us, in our bodies, andfeels good, feels right.
So most of the people that cometo me have been on a healing
path for some time or have beenmeditating for some time and
they're looking for somethingthat will open them up more and
(50:44):
something different that theyhaven't tried, that might just
connect with them and help thembe better, connect with them and
help them be better.
And so, yeah, this is a way toreally bring out the creativity.
I mean.
(51:05):
I even have a podcast whereBlue Dragon Healing Podcast and
the subtitle of it is CreativeHealing Through Story and Spirit
.
It's all about creation.
Kertia (51:12):
for this work, yeah, we're all creators.
We're all creators, it's justthat.
A lot this work yeah, we're allcreators, we're all creators.
It's just that a lot of us weforget that, yeah.
Yeah, that's pretty cool, yeah.
So I'd love to know is thereanything else about anything?
Your journey?
You're doing work.
(51:32):
Is there anything that you'dlove to share with us today?
Bjorn Lestrud (51:41):
I will just share some a very short channel.
It's going to be in a dragonlanguage, but it'll carry its
own vibration.
Satsang with Mooji.
(52:05):
Thank you, oh, that wasbeautiful.
Kertia (53:12):
Thank you.
Thank you so much, that wasbeautiful.
Thank you, vern.
Thank you so much.
That was amazing, that was good, that was so beautiful.
I like that.
That was amazing.
Thank you so much.
(53:32):
Thank you so so much Pleasurebeing here.
This was such a greatconversation.
Thank you so much for joiningme today.
Where can we find you?
Where can we access your work?
Bjorn Lestrud (53:47):
The easiest thing is through my website,
wwwbluedragonhealingnet.
There's information on all thedifferent parts, and then
there's also a resources pagethat links into the Insight
Timer podcast, but there's alsoa newsletter.
If people want to sign up forthat, then they'll be able to
(54:09):
stay informed on all of theinner workings of what's coming
out and that sort of thingamazing as usual.
Kertia (54:21):
Thank you so much for sticking with us.
Thank you so much for seeingthis through.
I hope you enjoyed that channel, that beautiful channeled
message from Bjorn.
All his details are within theshow notes of this episode.
And reach out and tell us whatyou think, tell us how you feel
(54:42):
about everything that Bjorn andI shared today, and continue to
share this podcast with yourfriends and family.
Thank you so much for all thelove and support.
Until next time.
Hey everyone.
So today on the Other Side ofFear podcast, I have today my
guest, bjorn Lestrud, who workswith people to help them address
the energetic blocks they'reexperiencing, and he facilitates
healing through sound andself-expression.
He is the founder of BlueDragon Healing, which is
(00:21):
accompanied by the Blue DragonHealing podcast.
So during our conversation heshared a bit of his personal
journey with finding andembracing his spiritual path
through witnessing thespontaneous healing of a
friend's badly hurt toe duringhis travels in Tulum, mexico,
(00:42):
and we also spoke about hisexperience using plant medicine
and the magic that came throughfor him when he did that.
And, to top it all off, heblessed us with some channeled
sound healing.
This was such a greatconversation.
I enjoyed it so much.
I am so grateful for hispresence on the podcast.
(01:03):
I hope you enjoy it too.
So last time when we spoke, wespoke about the spiritual
journey that you were on and howthis led to the work that
you're doing right now.
But I'd love to hear more about, I'd love for you to get into
(01:25):
what happened.
How did you become open andjust reconnected to yourself?
All the good stuff.
Bjorn Lestrud (01:32):
Yeah, I'll definitely get into that, but I
would also say that, in terms ofspiritual journey, definitely
still on one of those.
Yeah, of course.
Kertia (01:44):
It hasn't stopped.
Yeah.
Bjorn Lestrud (01:48):
It has its way with me, all right.
Well, it started really with anawakening 10 years before I
even started traveling.
I had been working in corporateAmerica in sales for a few
years and doing really well interms of how much money I was
(02:15):
making, how I was performing atmy job and all of that, but
struggling with a lot of anxietyand I had high blood pressure.
I was very overweight.
I was about I think I'm at themaximum.
I was about 270 pounds and Ifinally started to get back into
(02:42):
personal development and I wasstudying Bob Proctor and reading
about all this stuff aboutparadigms and how the mind works
, and there was just a breakingpoint and it happened, not like
gradually, there was a moment,so I was in work for the day.
(03:03):
Well, I guess first to explaina little bit about the whole bob
proctor thing and why itmatters and why I brought it up.
He has this thing that he well,he's dead now.
Rest in peace.
But he had this thing he calledthe stick person concept and it
was a mental model for how themind works.
And so it was.
You draw a big circle and thenput a line through the middle of
(03:27):
it and top of that circlerepresented the conscious mind,
the bottom half represent thesubconscious, and then there'd
be like another little stick anda tiny little circle at the
bottom representing the body.
So the you know, the mind islike way, way bigger than the
body in this diagram.
And so he had this programcalled a success puzzle and one
(04:02):
of the pieces it was aboutparadigms and how we're
influenced by patterns andthoughts before we're able to
consciously reject them becausewe're too young, too
impressionable.
And there was an image with thestick person concept where he
had the circle there but the top, like part of the circle was
open, there was nothing thereand it showed like this baby,
basically there, with all thepeople around them and all the
thought forms were just goingright into the baby's head.
Kertia (04:20):
Yeah, yeah.
Bjorn Lestrud (04:22):
So I, I, I'll, I'll, I'll leave that where it
is for now.
Yeah, I went to, I was at workand just thinking to myself, you
know, I'm like, just thinkabout what the most painful
memory in my life is.
So I thought about that and Iwrote something down.
(04:42):
So I thought about that and Iwrote something down and then I
said what am I most grateful forright now in my life?
And so I thought a bit, I wrotesomething down and then I asked
the question would I have thisthing that I'm most grateful for
if I did not have theexperience that I consider to be
(05:03):
the most painful?
And I realized, no, in fact Iwould not have it.
And so in my mind, what Iactually saw in that moment was
the image of the stick personwith the top missing, flip
upside down, and I saw all thesethought forms spilling out like
(05:25):
just falling out of the head.
And as I stood up and I startedwalking out of the building, um
water, you know, tears, butjust gushing down my face.
But it was so surreal.
It wasn't like this feelingthat I would get in the past
where I'd be sobbing or cryingabout something.
(05:47):
It was just like effortlessrelease, just through my eyes
and it was so euphoric andwonderful that I went out and
normally I would walk homebecause I lived downtown and I
had a high rise and so my workwas close by eight, nine minute
(06:08):
walk.
But I was so swept up in themoment I walked the wrong
direction without even realizingit.
I probably went like 20 blocksthe wrong way and I was just in
such bliss.
Of course, from that point on,that really opened my system up
and started making me moresensitive to energy.
(06:29):
And so the next day, justtrying to go into work, as soon
as I entered that building, mystomach just hurt so bad and I
was like, oh my God, I can't behere anymore.
Yeah, so that was a very abeginning and I went through
(06:50):
many cycles of stuff.
But about 10 or 11 years laterI landed in a place called Tulum
in Mexico, after I had beentraveling the world for about
five years.
I did not go to Tulum because Iwas intending to do some sort
(07:13):
of spiritual exploration.
I had no beliefs or intentionsabout shamanism or really even
about ayahuasca or any, orspirit guides or anything yeah.
I mainly went there because Iheard it was a cool place,
relaxed place to hang out andthat it was peak COVID and it
(07:34):
was one of the places people hada reputation that people could
go and there were fewerrestrictions.
And that's the environment Iwanted to be in was a place with
fewer restrictions.
So I went there and I had afriend down there Seemed like a
good place to go.
I was invited so I showed upthere and then my friend was
(07:55):
there, like I said, and he gotinto like an accident with his
foot and he hurt his toe.
It got smashed and it was likesuper black and blue.
Kertia (08:07):
Yikes.
Bjorn Lestrud (08:08):
To the point where anyone who saw his foot,
would you know, tell him youknow your toenail is going to
fall off Right.
Kertia (08:17):
Yeah.
Bjorn Lestrud (08:18):
Cause it was so black, you know.
Kertia (08:19):
Yeah.
Bjorn Lestrud (08:20):
So I had just seen him two days prior with the
black and blue foot and I sawhim again and he said look at my
foot.
I look at his foot and totallynormal the whole foot, no
discoloration.
The toenail, totally normalcolor.
(08:40):
Nothing had fallen off, like itwas, like nothing had ever
happened.
Wow, normal color nothing hadfallen off, like it was like
nothing had ever happened, wow.
So I asked him what, how didthis occur?
You know, I was fat, prettyfascinated by it, and he said,
yeah, he went.
He went to an energy healingceremony called the light portal
goodness and so, uh, I wasinvited to go next week because
(09:07):
I did it once a week, so I wastoo curious to say no at that
point, and I witnessed somethinglike that.
So I went, and so was thisenvironment, where they had a
circle of people around the room, like 15, 20 people, and there
were maybe four or fivefacilitators that were leading
(09:30):
us through different healingmodalities in one setting.
One person had us doing whatthey called biodynamic breath
work, so we were doing openmouth breathing while doing some
Qigong slash yoga type movementthere was having.
(09:55):
They had us sit down, actuallylay down on our backs, and they
had us continue to breathe.
And then there was someoneplaying drums, someone was
chanting, like lots of differentthings happening at one time.
Several practitioners weregoing around the room like doing
physical, like facial release,body work on the participants,
(10:21):
looking to release energeticblockages, but, like you know,
very physical way, and somepeople were screaming because it
hurts so bad and some peoplewere crying because they were
releasing something.
It was just.
It was a wild environment.
Kertia (10:40):
Yeah.
Bjorn Lestrud (10:41):
And so this woman , yeah, and uh.
So this woman, uh, you know,she was from this long lineage
of Muslim healers.
She came up to me and westarted working on me and man, I
mean, she's a tiny woman, butit hurt a lot when she worked on
me and after she left, Istarted to laugh and I couldn't
(11:04):
stop.
Left, I started to laugh and Icouldn't stop and it was like a
release of some kind and it feltreally good.
Kertia (11:09):
Yeah.
Bjorn Lestrud (11:09):
And I thought to myself maybe I should explore
this a little more.
Yeah, so I set up a privatesession with Ina and Jose.
They were two of thefacilitators there, two of the
facilitators there.
They did private sessions where, you know, would work on you
(11:29):
for about an hour and a halfjust digging into the fascia and
blockages and so forth.
And then she came to myapartment and, uh, we did this
on the floor, and then her,myself and her partner, jose,
would sit there and we sat thereand talked for a little bit
about what she saw, becauseshe's a seer.
Oh, I saw this energy from yourfather's side, this fear, this
(11:53):
anger and this sadness and fearfrom your mother's side, and I
saw this jaguar spirit guide andthis Native American shaman
spirit guide, and so on and soforth.
And then the next part of theirprivate session was meet your
(12:14):
guides.
Before I explain what happened,though, because that is the
culmination of the privatesession, I'll preface it by
saying that, for probably two orthree years leading into this,
I had been suffering from a sortof an arthritis in my knees,
where, whenever I would besitting, I would have to
(12:34):
straighten my legs out withintwo or three minutes or they
would get super stiff.
And this was happening all thetime, constantly.
It was chronic, bothered me alot.
So, anyways, I'm in thisprivate session and now the next
part is okay.
So we told you about yourguides.
We told you about the, the, theuh blockages that we found.
(12:57):
Now we're going to.
You know you can meet yourguides.
And so Jose served me a plantmedicine called hape, which is
some people call it shamanicsnuff.
It's mainly a tobacco product,but it has some other elements
to it, plant elements Dependingon the hape.
(13:20):
There's many kinds, but they'remade by the indigenous groups,
by the Amazon, and they doprayers over them and they use
different elements from naturein them that have psychoactive
aspects.
It could be ashes from aceremonial fire and then a lot
of times they use the bark froma sunu tree it depends.
(13:40):
So they serve me this hape andyou take it in the nose right.
So when someone serves you hape, they have a what's called a
tepe.
I actually have one right here.
I'll grab it yeah it's lookslike this well, they all look a
little different, but so ifsomeone is serving you, right,
(14:01):
they're basically you're puttingit in your nose and then
they're blowing it into yournose.
Didn't that burn?
Oh, yeah, it did.
It burned a lot, and uh, so heserved me the hot pay.
I didn't know what to think.
I'd never taken hot pay before.
Kertia (14:23):
Oh, my God.
Bjorn Lestrud (14:25):
And then he starts, he gets up and he walks
around behind me and startsshaking maracas in my ears, and
so all this stuff is happening,but in my mind wants to
internalize and process what'sgoing on in the space.
But because he's shaking themaracas in my ears, there's too
(14:45):
much noise so I can't logicallythink my way through what's
occurring in the room.
Oh man, then he starts chanting.
I don't know whatever he waschanting, and that started
(15:07):
making me feel really activated.
And the next thing I know I'mchanting and I can't stop.
It was this feeling like somekind of energy was moving
through me that I was not reallyfamiliar with.
Yeah, and it was determined topush its way through and there
(15:28):
was a lot of heavy, dense energythat was in the way and it was
just, oh man.
So it was like you can almostsay a traumatic experience for
me, but also amazing, but alsoamazing.
(15:49):
And so I I was chanting andthen I just got sick on the
floor and, um, you know, purgeda lot and pretty much had to lay
on the floor for three or fourhours, didn't even want to get
on the couch and lay down, whichis right next to me, because I
want the floor because I feltmore stable.
Yeah, that's how dizzy I was.
Kertia (16:06):
Yeah.
Bjorn Lestrud (16:08):
But then the next morning, when I woke up, all of
the pain from my knees was gone, completely gone, and has not
come back since.
Kertia (16:19):
Wow.
Bjorn Lestrud (16:22):
And so that was like an initiation, you could
perhaps call it.
Kertia (16:28):
Yeah, what was your reaction?
Bjorn Lestrud (16:32):
Confusion and delight.
Kertia (16:40):
Oh, my goodness.
Bjorn Lestrud (16:44):
So that was a beginning and from there I
started working with differentplant medicines.
I mean, I had been working withSanta Maria, or what people
call cannabis, for many years,but in a different way and not
really ceremonially.
But this ceremonial way ofworking with a plant medicine
(17:05):
was so different to me and sopowerful, so I did a session
with a medicine called bufo.
That um Well, how do I put this?
I was Bufo is like, if you'renot familiar with it, there was
(17:29):
a Simpsons episode a long timeago where they were like licking
toads.
It has to do with the toadvenom or toad secretion.
Kertia (17:36):
Yeah.
Bjorn Lestrud (17:37):
So you smoke it generally and the effects are
short lived but very, verystrong, so usually like 15, 20
minutes maximum.
You really are into it.
And so I was in a privatesession to do Bufo.
And so they told me you know,inhale, inhale, inhale until we
(17:57):
tell you to stop.
And basically I inhaled untilall the smoke was gone from the
thing.
It was a long, slow breath.
And then they told me whenyou're done, throw up your arms
in the air and then just gentlyfall back onto the mattress on
the floor.
So I did it and then when I fellback, I was falling in just a
total bliss state.
And then, when I fell back, Iwas falling in just a total
(18:21):
bliss state.
And then I felt this reallysharp pain in the center of my
forehead, almost like someonewas dinging a fingernail into my
head.
And then I just saw thisexplosion of blue light
everywhere.
And the next thing I know andkeep in mind I'm laying in a
(18:44):
very, very deep trance, like notmoving.
Next thing, I know this songjust erupts itself through me
and I'm singing this song thatI've never heard in my life
before, song that I've neverheard my life, uh, before.
(19:05):
And I'm not just singing, but,uh, my voice is going to these
very high pitches and very lowsounds that I'd never been able
to even make before, and it feltso incredible when I was
singing, uh, and that wasanother sort of beginning for me
, the beginning of seeing whatwas possible through voice and
(19:29):
through the lineage that I'm apart of.
Kertia (19:32):
Yeah.
Bjorn Lestrud (19:35):
And it just sort of kept growing, kept expanding.
I would go to ceremonies andthen people would want me to
chant, they'd want to hear mesing, and it kind of progressed
organically.
Eventually, the place where Istarted at the Light Portal
invited me to actually become afacilitator with them.
(19:57):
So I became one of the corefacilitators for the light
portal and, uh, I had a periodof time where I was just amazing
and doing the healing work,doing all that, and then then I
just hit this massive wall ofdepression that uh, just kind of
slammed me.
(20:18):
You know like it was like allday long, every day, just
intense sadness.
All the time I was processingsomething, I didn't know what
exactly.
Then I figured out later it hadto do with a birth trauma, of
all things.
But in so doing I met anotherone of my teachers who was this
(20:39):
uh, I met another one of myteachers who was this indigenous
, trained yes, you could callhim a shaman they don't use the
term in the Shipibo, where hewas trained, they use the term
maestro and I started doingprivate sessions with him and he
helped me a lot move throughthe energies.
And then I sat in an ayahuascasession that he did and
(21:01):
completely reset my system, andfrom there I worked with him and
this is when I started learningabout the power of remote work.
I did what's called a plantspirit diet, where you enter in
sort of a period of agreementlike I'm not going to eat
(21:21):
certain foods, I'm not going toengage in certain behaviors for
the period of the diet, and sodoing I'm going to connect
deeper with this plant andconnect with this plant as my
teacher.
So I did.
But the plant that I wasdieting was called marosa, but I
never actually physicallyconsumed the plant that I was
dieting was, uh, called Marosa,but I never actually physically
(21:43):
consumed the plant.
Everything was done throughsound.
He implanted the energetic seedof the Marosa in my field using
uh chanting.
And we would meet every two,three weeks.
He would give me a new chantover Zoom and then I would work
(22:04):
with the chant every day, listento it once, then do a grounding
ritual with a mapacho tobacco.
After about a month into doingthat, I was going for a walk one
evening and I started feelingthis warm sensation like right
(22:26):
in the middle of the upper partof my chest.
And then the warm sensationspread and became it sort of
felt like an opening of thatspot, like a flower petal sort
of opening up.
And then I stepped into thisplace of complete and utter
(22:49):
euphoria and oneness witheverything around me.
Uh, it was like everywhere Ilooked, in the air and all
(23:14):
around me, I would see the mostbeautiful blend and swirls of
colors I'd ever seen, and itwould dynamically shift and
change no matter where I lookedor turned my head, but it was
always equally as beautiful.
And any object I looked at,whether it was a tree, the road,
a building, I would just fallin love with and I was just so
it was just unconditional love,just pouring through me, yeah,
(23:35):
but in a very physical way,embodied way, and it was so
incredible.
I, yeah, just amazing, and soreally opened my eyes like the
power of healing and power ofthe quantum field for healing.
Because, you know, he wasn'tdoing physical work on me, he
(24:00):
wasn't, I wasn't even taking aphysical plan yet I had this
experience and it was soincredible and it was all remote
, you know, and uh.
And so then I had, shortlyafter that, I had to go back to
the states because my father wasin bad health and then I was
needed there, and so when I cameback, I started learning, like,
(24:23):
how to play with tuning forks,and I was using tuning forks a
lot and I got certified inbiofield tuning with tuning
forks and then I eventuallyrealized how to integrate what I
learned with the tuning forksinto the chanting that had
already been activated within me.
And then I started doing like asound healing but like a
(24:46):
shamanic type of way, and it'sjust sort of progressed and
progressed.
And now I do like lives.
You know weekly live events oninsight timer.
I do private sessions.
I do a lot of different thingsdepending on what the person
needs and what people need, anduh, it's just been a really
(25:08):
crazy, uh, unusual journey, Iguess.
Kertia (25:13):
Yeah, oh, my goodness, what a journey Bjorn.
What a journey bjorn, what ajourney wow wow.
Bjorn Lestrud (25:22):
And now, right as you, as we're saying that, I'm
like this is a burning sensation, like right in the center of my
forehead, like right now.
You know, in this moment, it'slike sharing this stuff, is it
also moves energy?
Yeah it activates that.
Kertia (25:36):
Yeah, yeah, I know because, as you were speaking, I
was feeling your energy as well.
So it's very, the quantum feelis real.
It's very, very real.
Whenever I've had conversationslike this you know anything
spirituality, energy, work,anything like that like as I'm
(25:57):
sitting here, I can feel whatyou're telling me, right?
So, like as you're speaking, Icould feel the energy.
I could feel energy move.
It's very, very interesting Alot.
I don't say it in the momentbecause I want I don't want to
interrupt you I want you to tellyour story and share all of
your experience.
(26:18):
But I'm sitting with that andI'm just like wow, like I can
feel how, if I can feel thisthrough the computer, imagine
you feeling the whole thing.
You know, when you were goingthrough that process, I was just
like wow, that's profound.
Bjorn Lestrud (26:34):
It's incredible, isn't it?
And then, how two people canfeel the energy just sitting
here having a conversation usingtechnology, right.
Kertia (26:43):
Yeah.
Bjorn Lestrud (26:45):
Is there really any real difference of being in
the same room when we're in thesame virtual room?
Kertia (26:51):
Exactly In that sense energetically?
Bjorn Lestrud (26:53):
I don't think there is.
No, no, it's all quantum, it'sall energy and it's everywhere
know it's all quantum, it's allenergy and it's everywhere.
Maybe, uh, if someone, like,was really sweaty and they
smelled and I wouldn't be ableto smell them or something like
that.
Kertia (27:08):
But yeah, but energy, that that is always.
There's always an exchange ofenergy.
It's amazing, it's so amazing.
You know, and just like I wantyou to talk about now, how you
work with this with sound, um,with chanting in your work.
How do you because you're oninside timer, so are you so
(27:31):
you're purely?
Are you purely just workingwith sound and um, the language,
and tuning and the tuning fork?
How does that work?
What does that look like whenyou're working with a client or
on inside timer?
Bjorn Lestrud (27:46):
so I'll explain both.
These are it's the same, butalso different yeah so when I do
like an inside timer live, I'mtuning into the energy of the
group, the collective field.
So it's a little different thantuning into one person, a
little bit less personal.
(28:06):
Yet there are still issues thatwe're all connected to that
work on the level of the DNA, onthe collective.
So on a group event I usuallystart with tuning forks for a
few minutes and I just starttapping into the energy of the
group and I have four differentaudible frequencies that I move
(28:28):
through.
I start with the lower, I startwith a 144 and I keep going
with that until it's a.
The tuning forks give mefeedback relative to how the
group is settling into receivingfrom that frequency.
You can hear it in the sound,it's audible.
So once the sound reflects andsounds clear, then I know I can
(28:49):
move on to the next one.
And then there's a feeling toowith it, like oh yeah, it feels
right.
So I moved through 144, 174,417, 528.
And once everything feels justsuper calm and nice, tucked away
, settled, then I pull out myBuffalo drum.
Where do I have that here?
(29:12):
Which is this here and I startdrumming, and I start drumming
and then I start to sing and Ilet the energy carry the sounds
and listen to my body, to letthe sounds move and change how
(29:37):
they need to.
And so how it works on aspiritual level with me is I
have a primary guide that I workwith that takes the form of a
blue dragon.
So that's why I call my healingbusiness blue dragon healing.
And then there are manyenergies behind that guide that
(29:58):
shuffle forth and take turns, um, channeling through that, so
there'll be highs, lows, butalso rhythms within the tones
themselves, like a stuff likethat, right and uh.
So I do that for a while andthen I get a sense when it's
(30:21):
about time to, because that'spart of the performance you
could call.
It is about the foundationalenergies moving the, you know,
working on the blockages on adeeper level.
And the the, the drum, mirrorsthe heartbeat of the earth and
keeps people more grounded inthe experience and in their
(30:43):
bodies.
But people still float away,and so once we kind of reach
this sort of contra point, thenI break out my shakers and I
sort of do a little pattern,interrupt with the shakers for a
few minutes.
Kertia (31:03):
Yeah.
Bjorn Lestrud (31:03):
And then I bring out the and I do the resolution
with the drum, with the hassofter tones and a different
intention behind it.
With the chanting.
And then, as I'm done with thatand wrapping up, I bring the
tuning forks back out and I movethrough those frequencies again
, and this time they just goright through, and so then
(31:27):
people really receive thosetones right into their bodies.
And then I usually take out thesinging bowl at the end.
Now, when I'm doing like aprivate work, especially a first
session, it's a littledifferent in the sense that most
(31:47):
of the time I'm using tuningforks in my voice, very little
work with the drum because, well, energetically, I don't know.
Most people are familiar withthe chakra system, but not
(32:10):
everyone is familiar with thesetwo points above the head and
below the feet the earth and thesun star, kind of like the
battery systems within the bodyall the other seven chakras into
alignment and get the energyflowing.
So I'm spending most of my timejust working on those two
(32:45):
points, using tuning forks andusing my voice, and then, once
we're done, I'll usuallyincorporate.
And then, once we're done, I'llusually incorporate.
Uh, sometimes I'll actually usehape in the work and bring
things to a conclusion, butoverall the work is really about
(33:10):
expression.
It's about that everyoneactually has their own healing
expression.
Yeah, actually has their ownhealing expression.
Yeah, and this helps remove theblocks that prevent us from
bringing that forward yeah sothis, uh, for somebody new to
(33:34):
the work, this is a big.
the beginning of it is just likelearning how to communicate
better with yourself, and peoplegenerally say they tap more
into their creativity.
They start noticing shifts intheir energy.
Usually they're very palpableor observable differences.
(33:57):
But then I also have a lot likea longer program which is
actually designed not only tobring forward healing expression
but then to package it andcreate something real and then
build the assets to bring it outto the world.
Kertia (34:19):
Yeah, that's amazing.
It's very intriguing, veryfascinating.
I totally love what you'resaying right now, you know,
because a lot of people needthat.
A lot of people have so manyenergy blocks.
Bjorn Lestrud (35:01):
And sometimes, most of the times, most of us
don't know where the blocks are,but you know that there's
something there, but you kind ofdon't know where it is, what
it's coming from.
And when you have someone thatcan facilitate you working
through that, releasing that,however way that might look for
you, for each individual, thatthat's just amazing.
Yeah, thank you.
And I also am very sensitive to, personally, to the whole
concept of somebody telling me,for example, like if I receive
healing from someone, themtelling me how I should perceive
it, how I should think about it, what the energy was that they
(35:22):
worked on.
I take it all with a grain ofsalt, because to me the healing
is what arises in the moment andthe rest of it is filtered
through the mind, what someonetells me.
And so I do my best to refrainfrom trying to get into
(35:44):
someone's space and tell themhow to perceive it and how to
think about it, but just to givethem the space to just let them
feel it.
Yeah, exactly, it's very, it's avery individual experience and
you can only speak to your ownexperience, truly, and I've had
(36:05):
mentors that really did theopposite of that, and it took me
a long time to let go of it.
Kertia (36:16):
Maybe that's a part of your own learning.
Yes, it is.
Yeah, I think that's a part oftheir own journey.
You know, when you're on thespiritual journey, there's still
a lot of stuff that we have touncover, a lot of stuff that we
need to shed.
(36:36):
It doesn't matter how far alongyou are on the path.
You're still human, you'restill in the human body, you
still work with the human brain,so you still do very human
stuff oh yeah well, uh, I'm gladthat you can feel the humor of
(36:58):
that vibration.
Bjorn Lestrud (37:03):
At the moment I'm processing something that so
sometimes in the mornings I doautomatic writing and just to
get some extra guidance, I keepreferring to this thing they
call my secret jacket.
Yeah, yeah, apparently I'vebeen holding this like shame
(37:26):
around me that you know was veryhidden for a long time and now
it's processing and so I'mprocessing the layers of this
jacket and it's really strangebecause it's so strong, like it
doesn't prevent me from feelingthe energies or anything like
that, but literally I took someweed or some mushroom or, I
(37:52):
don't know, maybe any medicine.
Right now I would barely evenbe able to perceive it because
I'm so rooted into the feelingof what is moving through, and
sometimes I'll sit there and mywhole, like foot or left leg,
will just go ice cold and I canfeel like this energy, just like
(38:15):
shaking, moving, coming throughthere.
I'm like what are you up todown there?
You know it never ends.
Kertia (38:26):
No, it doesn't.
It doesn't.
It's a whole journey, but it's.
It's cool when I have theseconversations with different
people and I hear the differentexperiences and how healing has
shown up for them, how it lookslike for them, and you truly see
that you know there is no onesize fits all solution or way to
(38:50):
healing or, but it's very, it'svery personal to each
individual and you know,everyone perceives in a
different way, heals in adifferent way, feels in a
different way, and it's all justbeautiful.
You know, it all leads back tothat one principle and that's
(39:11):
what's the most important thing.
So I'm definitely here for it.
I want to know, because youknow you mentioned your guides
what is it like for you workingwith your guides?
Bjorn Lestrud (39:24):
When I connect to that.
Energy is the most wonderfulthing and it only happens in
presence.
So when I connect to that and Ifeel that it's like my
particular flavor, I guess thatI get is you could call it
(39:46):
effervescence.
The sense of bubbly joy thatjust kind of flows out and could
call it yeah joy, unconditionallove, peace.
But it has a certain vibrationto it.
(40:10):
It's not just this still thing,it's, it's alive, you know yeah,
yeah, I know it's hard todescribe, right, I can talk
about when I saw some of myguides, uh, but when I have seen
them, but there have beenmoments because I still haven't
(40:31):
fully like learned how tointegrate my spiritual sight
into just everyday.
Whenever I want type of myguides, for example, it's this
indigenous shaman and they tendto visit me a lot of times when
(41:00):
I'm doing like deep breath workand I'll get these visions that
are so powerful.
The energy of the visions justis so blissfully, uh know, and
when it flows through it's justlike this wave of pleasure yeah,
(41:23):
definitely.
Kertia (41:25):
Do you ever in those moments actively communicate
with your guides, or do youprimarily just receive the
visions in that moment?
Bjorn Lestrud (41:40):
I primarily in those moments.
I just received the visions andsometimes I'll get a message
with it yeah like.
There's one time I was in ameditation and right at the end
of the meditation I saw thisbook on a book stand.
I'd never seen the book before,no idea what it was.
(42:03):
It was bluish colored book andit was like this pep stand.
You'd seen a bookstore wherethe book's on display and then
there are other copies of it allaround, um.
But when I came out of thedream or the vision, I couldn't
remember the name of the book,but for some reason the author's
name kept circulating in myhead, even though I never read
(42:25):
the author's name when I saw it.
And so then I looked up theauthor's name that was
circulating through my head andI found the book on amazon
what's the book about?
it's called uh, it's hold on,let me just uh double check the
name of it.
It's called the universalprinciples and the metamorphic
(42:53):
Technique, the Keys to Healingand Enlightenment, wow.
Kertia (43:00):
Have you read it yet?
Bjorn Lestrud (43:02):
I have it.
It's a slow read.
It's super, super dense.
Kertia (43:06):
Yeah, it sounds dense.
It's the kind of book where youhave to read it slowly yes, it
is yeah yeah, I get it, Itotally get it.
Oh man, um, it's, that's suchan amazing journey, though.
(43:32):
I love it and I love.
I love your excitement as wellabout the journey that you've
been on.
It's, it's really cool.
Um, what would you say?
You know like, with all yourexperiences and your healing
journey and now with the workthat you're doing, what message
do you have for people?
Bjorn Lestrud (43:50):
that don't fall into the trap of spirituality in
the sense that I and I fellinto this trap of when I started
exploring spirituality.
I wanted to escape into it.
Kertia (44:07):
Yeah.
Bjorn Lestrud (44:08):
And so sometimes, for example, when people start
doing ayahuasca and they havethese experiences, they just
want to keep doing it all thetime and keep having those
experiences.
And the real healing happenswhen you just allow yourself to
feel what you need to feel inyour body and that it's okay to
(44:28):
do that and it's not going tokill you to do that and that
you'll feel better when you dothat.
And also I found it's helpfulto explore different healing
modalities and just see whatworks.
For me, some things have workedand others haven't, and it's
valuable input either way, evenif you try something that
(44:52):
doesn't work super well, younever know what benefit you
might've gotten from that, andit helps shape your awareness
too.
Kertia (45:03):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, and I love that you mentioned
that because you know that's.
That's one of the things Ithink you know, anyone.
For a lot of people I when youstart a spiritual journey and
you start to have experiences,the very human thing to do is to
want to escape into that world.
Right, like a lot of us, we'rejust like why are we here?
(45:25):
Why did we come here?
Why are we still here?
When are the aliens coming?
You know all these things.
Bjorn Lestrud (45:31):
When can I?
Kertia (45:32):
leave this place.
Bjorn Lestrud (45:33):
And it's like, oh , and I have this pain in my
body.
I don't want to feel it.
Kertia (45:38):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So it's a very human thing todo to then want to escape this
physical realm.
But you know, there is noescape, there is just a working
through right and you have to dothe work through portion of
that right In order to ascend.
But like, yeah, it's veryimportant that you mentioned
(46:02):
that, because it's so easy toget trapped into that and to
want to stay on that side.
But truly spirituality, likethis human experience, is a part
of spirituality.
Right, everyone is spiritual,everyone is born spiritual.
(46:23):
It's just that some of us havenot truly reconnected with that
aspect of ourselves and so a lotof us we're just walking around
, really disconnected.
But we're all born spiritualand you know, choosing to go on
(46:43):
a journey or being thrown intothe journey, however which way
it happens, for you it's reallyimportant not to try to escape
this reality, to realize thatthis reality is equally
important and is equally a partof that spiritual journey, a
part of that spiritual awakening.
Bjorn Lestrud (47:01):
As a matter of fact, it is vital for that it is
, and the most amazingexperiences that you can have in
healing occur through the body.
They're not just up here.
Kertia (47:14):
Yeah.
Bjorn Lestrud (47:17):
They're something that you can feel through your
whole body and that is realeuphoria yeah, yeah, exactly so.
Kertia (47:25):
Yeah, that was an amazing point that you made
there.
So you spoke about your program, you spoke about Blue Dragon,
healing and then I know there isthe Primal Path.
What is the difference betweenthese two?
Bjorn Lestrud (47:41):
Primal Path is just part of Blue Dragon Healing
.
It's the longer-term programthat I've been developing to
bring a person through all thesedifferent stages of discovering
their healing expression,learning how to practice it with
it and transform with it, andeventually learning how to share
it and create something thatthey can actually bring out into
(48:06):
the world a reflection of them.
Yeah, that's beautiful.
The PATH is kind of an acronymand it stands for four things.
P stands for pain, because thefirst stage of healing is
acknowledging the pain.
That's there.
The A in PATH stands forawakening, because once you've
(48:27):
acknowledged that pain, you thencreate an opening, because
you're opening yourself up tonew insights.
And then from there, the t inpath stands for transformation.
It's once you have an awakening, that's great.
But how can you have that typeof experience and make it a
regular thing through practice?
(48:49):
Right, and then transformationis all about ising the awakening
, the healing.
And then the H stands forheritage, because it's like,
okay, so you went through thistransformation, but how are you
going to now make the world abetter place and how are you
going to share what you'velearned with other people and
(49:09):
make a mark?
And so then that's the Helement.
Kertia (49:13):
I love that, bjorn, that's H element.
I love that, bjorn, that's sobeautiful.
I love that.
That sounds really cool.
What has it been like so far?
What have you noticed with thepeople that you work with so far
?
Any profound experiences, orwhat is it that they have
learned or integrated, howeverit looks for them?
Bjorn Lestrud (49:39):
learnt or integrated, however it looks for
them.
So the most common thingsespecially when people are
starting out because I thinkthat that's what people are
going to resonate the most withis that a lot of times, we as
human beings have relationshipissues with people from our past
that we haven't let go of anduh, and that affects our
self-relationship, how wecommunicate with ourself,
(50:01):
because essentially, by puttingsomeone in a box somewhere,
we're putting a part of ourselfin a box somewhere.
so is a reintegration of ourparts of self and our, our own
expression, and how we reallychoose and want to show up
authentically in the world in away that deeply resonates with
(50:23):
with us, in our bodies, andfeels good, feels right.
So most of the people that cometo me have been on a healing
path for some time or have beenmeditating for some time and
they're looking for somethingthat will open them up more and
(50:44):
something different that theyhaven't tried, that might just
connect with them and help thembe better, connect with them and
help them be better.
And so, yeah, this is a way toreally bring out the creativity.
I mean.
(51:05):
I even have a podcast whereBlue Dragon Healing Podcast and
the subtitle of it is CreativeHealing Through Story and Spirit
.
It's all about creation.
Kertia (51:12):
for this work, yeah, we're all creators.
We're all creators, it's justthat.
A lot this work yeah, we're allcreators, we're all creators.
It's just that a lot of us weforget that, yeah.
Yeah, that's pretty cool, yeah.
So I'd love to know is thereanything else about anything?
Your journey?
You're doing work.
(51:32):
Is there anything that you'dlove to share with us today?
Bjorn Lestrud (51:41):
I will just share some a very short channel.
It's going to be in a dragonlanguage, but it'll carry its
own vibration.
Satsang with Mooji.
(52:05):
Thank you, oh, that wasbeautiful.
Kertia (53:12):
Thank you.
Thank you so much, that wasbeautiful.
Thank you, vern.
Thank you so much.
That was amazing, that was good, that was so beautiful.
I like that.
That was amazing.
Thank you so much.
(53:32):
Thank you so so much Pleasurebeing here.
This was such a greatconversation.
Thank you so much for joiningme today.
Where can we find you?
Where can we access your work?
Bjorn Lestrud (53:47):
The easiest thing is through my website,
wwwbluedragonhealingnet.
There's information on all thedifferent parts, and then
there's also a resources pagethat links into the Insight
Timer podcast, but there's alsoa newsletter.
If people want to sign up forthat, then they'll be able to
(54:09):
stay informed on all of theinner workings of what's coming
out and that sort of thingamazing as usual.
Kertia (54:21):
Thank you so much for sticking with us.
Thank you so much for seeingthis through.
I hope you enjoyed that channel, that beautiful channeled
message from Bjorn.
All his details are within theshow notes of this episode.
And reach out and tell us whatyou think, tell us how you feel
(54:42):
about everything that Bjorn andI shared today, and continue to
share this podcast with yourfriends and family.
Thank you so much for all thelove and support.
Until next time.
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