November 16, 2025 • 61 mins
Key Takeaways:
- Cognitive Behavioural Therapy (CBT) helps reshape thoughts and beliefs.
- Personal trauma can significantly impact mental health and relationships. Your past and your trauma only defines you to the degree that you allow it to.
- Acknowledging your pain is the first step to healing.
Licensed mental health counselor Bianca Thomas, blends cognitive behavioural therapy with warmth, humor, and lived experience, showing how honest self-examination can move you from pretending to be okay to actually building a life that feels stable, meaningful, and yours. Bianca opens up about growing up in a strict, image-driven environment, and the relationship that compounded her pain. She explains how she recognized patterns consistent with borderline personality disorder and what changed when a business partner challenged her to do the real inner work.
Bianca speaks to the need for awareness, personal responsibility and getting the help we need. She emphasizes that we've all at one point fallen on the spectrum of various mental health disorders, due to the symptoms we generally tend to experience while dealing with life's challenges. We dig into stigma, speaking on why asking for help still feels risky, how shame keeps people stuck, and why labels describe clusters of human experiences rather than moral flaws. We conclude with a final takeaway that, you can’t control where you started, but you can choose the meaning you make from it and the behaviours you practice next.
All links to our guest's work and official site
Website ➡️ https://evolveventurestech.com
YouTube ➡️ @EvolvewithBianca
TikTok ➡️ https://www.tiktok.com/@evolvewithbianca
Instagram ➡️ https://www.instagram.com/evolvewithbianca/
Books Mentioned: The Myth of Normal: Trauma, Illness and Healing in a Toxic Culture, Dr. Gabor Maté with Daniel Maté
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Kertia's Email: discovertheothersidepodcast@gmail.com
Want to be a guest on The Other Side of Fear? Send Kertia Jené a message on PodMatch, here: https://www.podmatch.com/hostdetailpreview/kertiajohnson
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All health and mental health topics within the content of this body of work are for informational, discussion, reflective, and entertainment purposes only. The Other Side of Fear and its contents does not replace nor does it claim to replace the knowledge, expertise and advice of licensed healthcare professionals.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Kertia (00:00):
Hello everyone.
Welcome back to the other sideof fear.
I'm your host, Kertia Johnson.
In this conversation, I mustsay it was so much fun.
I had a blast speaking to myguest, Bianca Thomas.
Now, for the first three tofour minutes, we were just
laughing it up.
(00:21):
We were being really silly.
But yeah, it was all in goodfun.
So Bianca, she is a licensedmental health counselor who
specializes in cognitivebehavioral therapy.
She's very passionate abouttrauma recovery and helping
(00:43):
others to build that inner loveand confidence for themselves.
Now, coming off of thisconversation, one thing I'd say
is that too many of us, for fartoo long, we know we're not
okay.
At some point, a lot of us cometo experience this deep feeling
(01:08):
or sense of unease within ourbodies, within our lives, with
how we feel.
And sometimes we often don'thave the words to explain what
that feeling is, but we canacknowledge that it's there.
(01:30):
And what a lot of us tend to dois we try to explain that
feeling away with all sorts ofthings, like maybe you're just
tired and need a break, or maybeit's time for another vacation,
right?
And some of us even try to numbthis feeling, of course, with
(01:52):
alcohol, drugs, sex, or anyother type of numbing agent
that's out there, because thereare many now.
But the thing is, we we hidefrom this feeling, we distract
ourselves from these things thatseeps into ourselves, into
(02:13):
every aspect of ourselves, andit eats away at us.
And we insist, we insist oncarrying on and pushing through,
pretending to be okay, whenwe're really not.
But the signs are all there.
The signs are always there inour day-to-day thoughts when we
(02:35):
look around our immediateenvironment.
What do you see?
How regulated is your life?
How regulated are youremotions?
How healthy are yourrelationships?
The conversations that you'rehaving every day.
(02:55):
What do they sound like?
How healthy is yourrelationship with yourself?
How do you speak about yourselfor to yourself when no one is
looking?
And what are you doing each dayto feed your soul?
(03:17):
What are you doing to give backto yourself?
What are you consuming?
How are you loving yourself?
And as Bianca said, not thefluffy concept of love, not the
concept of love that relies onsome type of external product or
(03:43):
thing or validation, but realdeep love for yourself
internally, you know, becausewe've all been through
something, some of which at onepoint may have seemed impossible
to get through.
But it's not just aboutsurviving, it's not just about
(04:06):
surviving the things that we'vebeen through.
We must also attend to thewounds that were created from
those experiences to recognizethat healing is our
responsibility.
Our healing rests on no oneelse but us.
(04:32):
So with that being said, let'sget into this beautiful
conversation that I had withBianca.
Oh, what was it before?
Bianca (04:53):
So when I first started um like podcasting and my
mission partner and I startedour business together, do you
know those like um oh my god,what are they called?
Like the little leaves that youcan buy, like from Amazon.
It was just randomly draped inmy background with like I just I
(05:15):
set it up so badly, it's noteven funny.
And then I just started puttingmore random stuff on my wall,
and it was like this lookslow-key ratchet as hell.
So let me not do this.
So as I like when I moved intothis new place, I was like, I
need to actually set this up,make it look professional, and
make it not look like a toddlercame and like tried to do a
(05:38):
school project.
It was a real fun time.
Kertia (05:42):
That was actually so funny.
Bianca (05:45):
I I am not creative in that sense.
I I do want to put the uh likewall paneling, like the wood
paneling eventually, but yeah,eventually.
I'm not doing that myself.
I'll destroy the wall.
Like, let someone else do it.
I'll break it.
You gotta know yourself, youknow what I mean?
Kertia (06:08):
Exactly.
Know your strands.
Bianca (06:11):
Yeah, that's not one of mine, not even remotely.
Kertia (06:16):
Oh, that's hilarious.
Oh gosh.
I mean, the wall looks goodthough.
So it doesn't look ratchet.
There we go.
Bianca (06:24):
So the way that I set it up was ratchet as hell.
I'm like standing on this chairand it's like swiveling around.
I have like a hammer in myhand.
I'm like trying to hammer itinto the wall.
I'm like, I shouldn't beallowed to use heavy machinery.
And in my case, a hammer isheavy machinery.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
It was just ridiculous.
Kertia (06:46):
It's the heavy machinery for me.
Oh man, that is too funny.
That is too funny.
Bianca (07:02):
Listen, you know your strengths, you know your
weaknesses, you play on themaccordingly.
That is not mine.
Kertia (07:09):
Yes, yes, yeah, I agree.
Oh gosh, that was a good laugh.
Oh, that was so funny.
I love it though.
I love it.
It's the hammer though.
(07:34):
The hammer.
Oh gosh.
No more machines for you.
Bianca (07:57):
Yeah, seriously.
Kertia (08:10):
Oh gosh, okay, okay.
Let me settle myself.
Oh man, all right.
So I guess we'll jump intomental health, I think.
It is.
(08:33):
Laughter is the best part ofmental health, yeah.
Bianca (08:38):
I'll be sitting in sessions with clients, and I'll
just say some of the dumbestthings ever, and they'll start
dying laughing.
That happened yesterday.
One of my clients is goingthrough, like, she's about to
enter into like a pretty badbreakup.
And I don't remember what Isaid, but I just cracked the
(08:59):
dumbest joke because she and Ijust have that rapport.
It's like she knows.
She just looked at me like,what the hell is wrong with you?
And then just started dyinglaughing.
And then I made a lesson out ofit, so it worked out, but I
love that.
Kertia (09:17):
I love that.
Bianca (09:18):
That's definitely the the approach that I take with
therapy is just being a realperson.
Yeah.
You know, like nobody wants tosit in front of a therapist who
they feel is a stiff and who'sjudging them, and it's just
ultra professional.
Like I've never, I've nevertaken that route with it.
(09:39):
And I and I sincerely believeit's made such a difference with
the clients that I work withbecause they're like, oh, this
is a real person sitting infront of me.
Like, it's not like me justsitting there taking notes,
going, hmm, the entire time.
It's like if like it feelsreal.
Kertia (09:59):
That is beautiful.
That makes all the differencefor real, though.
I love that.
So tell me more about yourpractice and how you help
people.
Bianca (10:11):
So I got my degree in cognitive behavioral therapy.
So I'm a licensed mental healthcounselor.
Technically, I I got my degreein clinical counseling
psychology.
And the specialty that I do isCBT.
And I've been doing it forabout five, six years now.
I think I started my program inyeah, I we started in 2019.
(10:34):
So I've been doing this for sixyears.
And what drew me so deeply toit was my life like as a child
and the things that I had gonethrough and going through life
feeling broken.
(10:54):
And so when I heard about thisprogram, it was like, oh, that
doesn't have to be what life is.
Like, there is another to this,there is something else,
there's more.
And then I started learningmore about CBT and about um how
our thoughts and our beliefsreally shape everything.
(11:16):
And it just fascinated me.
So going through that and thenbeing very into personal
development and growth, I reallycombine those two things in my
therapy practice, and thenobviously my humor and low-key
insanity, but it makes it areally good blend and mix.
(11:39):
So, like I work with a lot oftrauma survivors, I work with a
lot of people who've struggledwith severe clinical depression,
anxiety, relationshipchallenges, um, family of origin
issues.
And part of what I do, andhonestly, the biggest part of
what I do is really helpingpeople to see that there's
(11:59):
another side to what life couldbe.
That life doesn't just have tobe low self-worth and hating
yourself and fear and misery.
Like there's so much more thatlife can be if you're willing to
put in the work.
And because that's exactly whatI had to do.
(12:21):
Like that was the exact journeythat I had to take for myself.
And it made all the differencefor me.
And it's the only reason why Ican now do this for other
people.
Kertia (12:31):
Amazing.
Tell me more about your ownjourney and why it was important
for you because you know, likethat kind of leading you to get
that, be interested in the workthat you're doing right now.
What were some of the thingsthat you also had to work
through?
And how did CBT help you?
(12:51):
And did you also use um anyother healing modalities to help
you along the way?
Yeah, for sure.
Bianca (12:59):
Growing up, I was in a very, very old school Middle
Eastern family.
So they had very, very strongand strict beliefs about who a
child was supposed to be, whothe daughter was supposed to be.
It was very family-centered andvery image-centered.
So everything was aboutappearance, everything was about
(13:21):
what you look like and makingsure that you looked good for
everyone else in the culture.
And my parents, I love them todeath, but they were very
emotionally unintelligent andvery emotionally dysfunctional.
My entire culture was, and myentire family was.
But growing up in that, it wasreally hard for me.
(13:45):
I struggled at a really, reallyyoung age.
I rebelled from a really,really young age.
Now I know looking back, I hadborderline personality disorder.
And I didn't, nobody knew whatit was, and nobody knew that
that's what it was, but itdeveloped over the years from
(14:05):
years and years and years ofbasically being told I was a
problem and consistently beinginvalidated, and chaos was
ensuing in the house, but wenobody was allowed to talk about
it.
And I was basically the sirenbeing told, keep quiet, keep
quiet, don't talk about it.
(14:26):
So obviously I rebelled, and Iwas like, I'm gonna cause mayhem
because something needs tohappen.
Like, it's not okay.
It's not okay that we'refighting all the time.
It's not okay, all of thesethings that are happening.
And I rebelled so hard that Iended up in a relationship with
(14:47):
someone for four years where Iwas being mentally, emotionally,
and sexually abused.
And I didn't want anyone toknow, and I didn't want my
family to be right.
So I didn't tell them.
I didn't tell anybody what wasactually going on behind the
scenes.
I didn't tell anyone how he wasblackmailing me and
manipulating me to stay withhim.
And it broke me.
(15:12):
Like I had already I hadalready felt broken.
I already felt like I was thisworthless, broken, unlovable
human being.
But being in that relationship,and when I finally got out of
it, it was like I'm so lost, andI am so broken, and I don't
know who I am, and I don't know.
(15:32):
I was naive.
I didn't know anything.
Yeah.
So I'm like stumbling throughlife, trying to figure out who I
am and what everything is.
And eventually I meet thesementors of mine who introduced
me to personal development andgrowth, and they were the first
people to ever sincerely believein me.
And they were like, there's somuch more for you.
(15:55):
There's so much more that youcould be, but like you're
getting in your own way.
And I was in school forpsychology at the time, so it's
not like I was ignorant to theseconcepts, but I think there's a
difference between cognitivelyunderstanding it and then
actually embodying it andactually being behind the scenes
(16:16):
doing the work of it.
So they're the first people toever see anything in me.
And then I meet my businesspartner, Emilia.
We actually met doing uh MuayThai.
I don't know if you know whatthat is.
It's M M A basically.
That's so cool.
She beat the living hell out ofme and we became best friends
(16:36):
from it.
Because apparently I was theonly one that could take a
punch.
So she's like, I like you.
I was like, hey, I like youtoo.
And then we basically, it justwas off to the races from there.
That's so cool.
So we started our podcast in2020, right when the pandemic
was happening.
So we were gonna do everythingin person.
(16:56):
The pandemic happened.
It's like, oh, cool, we can doeverything online.
So we started building thisonline podcast, this online
business.
We are growing, we starteddeveloping a team.
I graduated from my master'sdegree, and I moved out.
And after that, everything kindof started tumbling down
(17:22):
because all of the inner workthat I had never actually done,
all of the challenges that I hadbasically been running away
from and all of theresponsibility that was being
put on me basically became somuch that it just all caught up
and I couldn't handle it.
And I was basically pretendingand making it seem like I was so
(17:46):
confident and I knew what I wastalking about because I was
basically trying to put on ashow, trying to prove to
everybody and really trying toprove to myself that no, no, no,
no, I can do this.
I can do this, I'm not broken.
So my business partner and Iend up having a conversation and
she's like, B, I care about youso much.
(18:09):
I care about you so much, butlike, we can't do this anymore.
You have so much growth youhave to do.
You, you're you're stillstruggling from your past,
you're struggling from therelationship that you had with
your family, the abuse and thetrauma that you never processed
(18:30):
through this is hurting us.
And she's like, I don't wantthis to end, but we need to
change something.
So she's like, here's what wedo.
We can either go our separateways and I will love you from
afar.
So we'll basically liquidateeverything, you'll take your
(18:50):
half, I'll take mine, and we'llgo our separate ways and I'll do
my own thing.
Or really take some time and dothe work.
Do the work, work on yourself,go to therapy again, heal your
trauma, and we'll continueeverything, but you're not gonna
be in the same space you werein.
(19:12):
And I really had to take sometime and think about it because
it was like, holy hell, mydeepest fear just came true.
I just got found out.
Everyone's deepest fear ofimposter syndrome, it just
happened to me.
I was found out for being animposter.
Yeah, and I was like, okay,what do I want to do here?
(19:33):
And I was like, I can't letthis be the story of my life.
That I had an opportunity toreally become something, to
become more than the brokenlittle girl who never thought
she was enough, who waspretending to be confident and
pretending to be more than shewas, but deep down she felt
(19:56):
broken and insecure.
And it was like, I'll dowhatever I have to do.
So I started going to therapy.
I was already doing coaching,so I ramped up the coaching that
I was doing, I ramped up thetherapy that I was doing, and I
really just started doing thework.
I was building that scaffoldingthat was never there before,
(20:20):
like really building thatinnermost part of me that I was
terrified of and really takingthe time to become this woman
that I never felt I could be.
And I gave up basically myentire past, I gave up the good
(20:43):
that I had to become better andto become something greater, and
to really make something ofmyself, and really having to
challenge and dive into thedeepest fear that I wasn't
enough and that I was unwantedand that I was alone.
(21:04):
Yeah.
And doing that, it is the onlyreason why I am where I am
today.
Getting to teach other peoplebasically how to do the exact
same thing through CBT, throughinner work, and through really
learning how to love yourselfand not in like the fluffy
(21:26):
feel-good way, but real, true,deep-seated self-love.
Yeah.
And uh teaching people to dothat now through podcasts like
this, through our own podcast,through the business, through
therapy, through speakingengagements.
It was basically going fromthis broken little girl to this
(21:52):
woman who gets to teach all ofthese people how to do the same.
And that's what really inspiredme into CBT because it was
like, I did it.
I know it works, and now let'shelp you.
Kertia (22:07):
Yeah.
Thank you so much for sharingthat, Bianca.
I love um, you know, like howyou just gave us the transition
from where you were to where youare now and what it took for
you to get there.
I love for you to dive intobecause there's different um
types of therapy.
And I think a lot of times whenpeople think about the field of
(22:30):
psychology or think aboutpsychologists in general, I
think a lot of people are kindof unaware that there are
different types of therapy andhealing modalities under that
umbrella.
So I'd love for you to talkabout CBT and what that entails
(22:50):
and how that kind of likediffers a little bit, but we
can't go through all thedifferent types.
There's so many, but like howthat would differ from like
another one, for example.
Bianca (23:03):
Yeah, for sure.
So CBT is the primary modalitythat I use, but I also use a lot
of other ones because I'm Idon't believe that the best
therapy is to be a one-trickpony.
I I believe that every modalityhas its value, but you have to
be grounded in one of them.
Like you have to have at leasta deep understanding of one.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
Yeah.
Bianca (23:23):
And then, you know, over time you can build the skills
of the other ones because theyall really feed into each other.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
Yeah, they do.
Bianca (23:31):
Like you can't you can't isolate them.
You have to look at the wholeperson.
And I really believe that allof the different therapy
modalities give you anopportunity to look at one
version.
And when you can put them alltogether and you can be really
skillful in using them, then youget to actually help the whole
person, which is what I reallyaim to do as a therapist and you
(23:56):
know, the work that peopleactually need.
So, what CBT does is CBTbasically looks at how your
thoughts, feelings, andbehaviors shape your world.
So CBT has the idea that overthe span of our life, we develop
these core beliefs, we developthese ideas and we develop these
(24:18):
notions of ourself, of theworld and other people from the
experiences that we have.
And when you mix that withgenetics and like epigenetics
and the brain, and you mix allthese things together, that
ultimately shapes the personthat you're gonna be in the way
(24:38):
you see the world.
And it frames the way that youperceive life.
And so, what CBT looks to do isto really understand okay, what
is that lens through which youare seeing the world?
How are you seeing yourself?
How are you seeing others?
How are you seeing the way itall works?
(25:00):
Is it serving you or is it notserving you?
And then let's kind of pull itapart and modify it so that you
can see things more clearly, sothat you can see it not through
the distorted lens of a brokenchildhood like me.
My entire belief structure wasI'm broken.
(25:20):
So every interaction and everyexperience was through the lens
of, well, I'm broken and nobodywants me, and I'm a problem and
I'm a bad person.
And I have this diagnosis, andthat makes something terrible of
me.
And I didn't know what it was.
I actually only recentlyrealized that that's what it
was, and I've done so much workto heal it.
(25:42):
I'm very low on the spectrumnow.
But because everything is aspectrum, right?
So, like I'm very low on thespectrum now, but it used to be
a lot higher when you know mylife was very dysregulated.
Yeah.
And CBT was one of the primarythings that allowed for me to
really understand why I do thinkabout myself the way that I do.
(26:05):
Why is it that when I'm goinginto a situation, I really
assume everybody hates me orsomething is deeply wrong with
me.
And then why am I reactingbased on that?
So I CBT is the primary onethat I'll use.
I also adore internal familysystems.
(26:25):
I'm not sure if you've everheard of it.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
I've heard of it, yeah.
Bianca (26:28):
So for those listening, Richard Schwartz came up with
this when he was working withum, he was a family counselor
originally, and I think he didpsychoanalysis.
And he was like, I don't thinkthis actually works.
So he started working withwomen struggling with anorexia,
and he started noticing thesepatterns of the way that these
(26:51):
women were speaking.
And they were kind of talkingabout themselves, like they had
these different voices in theirheads.
And he's like, Are theyschizophrenic?
Like, are they having auditoryhallucinations?
Are they having delusions?
And what he ended up findingout was no, we actually all have
these.
We have this subsystem ofparts, these little, these
(27:11):
personalities, these componentsof us.
So these different parts of ourmind that developed throughout
our life to keep us safe and toprotect us, and that we're built
out of fear, or that we'rebuilt out of trauma or challenge
or joy or whatever.
Very similar to the movie Um Ohmy god, I'm blanking so hard.
(27:36):
The kids' movie, the one withall Inside Out?
Inside Out, thank you.
It it's basically like that, orvery similar.
It's not necessarily emotions,but it's these
sub-personalities.
Yeah.
And it blends perfectly withCBT because what I'll do as a
CBT therapist is I want toidentify the core of who you are
(27:57):
and understand it so you canunderstand it.
And then what are all of yourparts?
And how are the ways that youand this little family that you
have within you?
How are you guys allinteracting with each other?
What are the beliefs that youhave?
How is that shaping yourexperience of life and your
existence?
And how can we help them to allget more grounded and centered
(28:20):
and stable and connected so thatyou can then have the best life
possible?
Kertia (28:26):
Yeah, thank you.
That was a beautifulexplanation.
When you talk about, um,there's so many questions that I
could ask you, so many placesthat we could go with this.
Um, but you know, when you talkabout the different components
in our brain and how we'vedeveloped these things to
(28:49):
protect ourselves and then howour own self-concept develops
and how we interact with theworld in accordance to that
self-concept and how we perceiveourselves, how we perceive the
world.
How can we begin to recognizethat there is something that I
(29:10):
guess how we are perceivingthings, how we are perceiving
ourselves, how we are perceivinglife, that is not working
because I think it takes I mean,from my own personal
experience, even it took me awhile to recognize that
something was wrong.
You know, like we I think mostof us go through this spiral for
(29:37):
a while before we recognizethat something isn't working,
and thankfully for you, you hadsomeone that loved you so much
to point that out to you to letyou know like this isn't
working, like something hereneeds to be looked at.
So, how can we begin torecognize that for ourselves?
(29:58):
Because we don't all Havesomeone that is so attentive or
is caring enough to have thatconversation with us, you know,
like your friend could have donethat for you.
So, how can we begin to do thatfor ourselves?
That's a really good question.
Bianca (30:19):
I think the truth was I did know.
I did know.
I knew that things weren'tokay.
I knew that I wasn't feelingokay.
I knew that I knew that thingswere harder than they should
have been.
And I felt the pull all thetime, but I was too afraid to
(30:40):
admit it to myself.
And I don't know if that's whatthe case was for you, but for
the majority of the clients thatcome to see me, they say deep
down, I knew I knew that thingsweren't right.
I knew I felt this discordwithin me.
It was like I was fightingmyself all the time, and I knew
(31:05):
it, but I wasn't ready toacknowledge it yet.
Most of us run away fromourselves our entire life.
I mean, that is exactly what Idid.
I ran away from my family tothis relationship.
I ran from this relationship toother relationships.
Then from that relationship, Idive-bombed into personal
(31:25):
growth, but actually notactually growing.
I was, but I was using growthas a crutch to avoid doing the
real inner work.
And I got really good atpretending so much so I had
myself fooled.
But you ever have that momentwhere you're laying down in bed
(31:49):
and it's this you feel thatbuzzing in your body of like, oh
my God, something isn't right.
We all get moments like that,but we just get really good at
avoiding it or numbing it orsuppressing it or justifying it
away.
And what I had to do, because Imean, even before Amelia said
(32:13):
something to me, it was like, Iknew.
I knew I was pretending, I knewI was hiding, I knew that I
felt terrible, but I was tryingto prove myself wrong.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
Yeah.
Bianca (32:26):
Rather than acknowledging, B, something
isn't right here.
And I know you're scared, and Iknow you don't want to be found
out, and I know you don't wantto like quote unquote prove that
you're not good enough.
But what if you actuallyadmitting that is the thing
(32:46):
that's gonna allow you to becomegood enough?
What if you actuallyacknowledging your deepest fear
is the thing that allows you toget to the other side of it and
to change and to evolve and tobecome this greater version of
yourself?
Yeah.
(33:07):
I mean, to the premise of yourshow, the other side of fear.
The other side of fear for mewas everything I ever dreamed
of, but you kind of gotta gothrough the muck and through my
uh Amelia, my mission partner,calls it lonely land.
Yeah, it's like that middlepart of the journey where like
everything blows and it's sohard, and you're like, I don't
(33:29):
know who I am, and I don't knowwhere I'm going, but I'm just
I'm just doing it.
I'm in the middle of it.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
Yeah.
Bianca (33:37):
When you can go through that, the other side of that
sincerely is such a better life.
But it does start with theacknowledgement of the pain that
you've been running away from.
We might not know exactly whatit is, we might not be able to
(33:58):
pinpoint it, we might not beable to specifically identify
it, but just start with theawareness of okay, something
feels off.
And then you take the nextstep.
And hopefully, for a lot ofpeople, what that next step
would be is maybe going andseeing a therapist or starting
(34:18):
journaling or starting, youknow, YouTube and reading books.
Like, I know not everybody hasaccess to a therapist and they
don't have access to the friendsthat I had.
I'm so blessed to have had thepeople in my life that I did.
But you don't need that.
There's so many resources outin the world that are free that
(34:42):
you can start there.
Kertia (34:45):
Yeah.
So much truth.
What do you say, you know,thinking about all of this?
Because this is something I'veheard people say before,
unfortunately, and it breaks myheart.
Like, I've literally heardpeople say, you know, I'm too
broken to be fixed.
(35:06):
Like, like, and I understand, Iget it, I get it, because when
you kind of hear their story,you're just like, oh my god, you
know, how how did you evensurvive that?
But they truly deeply feel likethey're too broken, they're too
(35:31):
far gone, you know.
It like you'd suggest therapyand suggest all the things, and
they're like, no, I'm too fargone.
Like, what do you say tosomeone who that is where they
are?
Like, well, none of us canreally get there until we're
(35:54):
ready, right?
There's that aspect wherebyyou're not gonna get that
healing unless you're trulyready to be healed.
There's that aspect that wehave to acknowledge, yeah.
But then when someone issituated in that headspace for
(36:17):
so long, and you as a friend ora family member, all you want to
do is to help them and embracethem and help them find a way,
and you're like, no, I'm toobroken, I'm too forgone.
How like how do you what do yousay to that?
Bianca (36:42):
There's a few people I'm thinking of that in my personal
life, I love them so much, andI see how badly they are
suffering, more than they evenknow, because not not to sound
arrogant, but like they don'thave the awareness that I do
(37:04):
about the consequences of whatthey're doing, because I've
studied this for almost a decadenow.
And I remember one of thesepeople, they've caused so much
suffering to themselves andother people because of how
deeply broken they are, and howmuch they need help, and how
(37:25):
traumatized they've been fromtheir own life, but they won't
acknowledge it.
And I remember this personsaying, I would never go to
therapy.
Like, I don't need that.
And there was like thiscontempt in their voice, and
they were like disgusted by theidea of it of like, I don't need
(37:47):
that.
Speaker 1 (37:47):
Yeah.
Bianca (37:50):
And it took everything in me not to break down and be
like, you are causing yourselfand everyone in your life so
much pain and suffering becauseyou are refusing to see how much
you do need help.
And I since that has been thehardest part of this mission for
(38:17):
me and this journey for me,like with the business that we
have, Evolve, right?
Our business is literallycalled Evolve.
We are deeply grounded androoted in the concept that
everybody is capable of change.
Every single person is capableof growth and change.
Maybe not the same amount,maybe not in the same degree,
(38:38):
maybe not even in the same way,but we all have the potential to
be better than we are and toheal and to grow in a way that
is meaningful for us.
And the hardest part of thisjourney for me has been the
realization of how few peopleare ever actually going to do
that because of exactly whatyou're saying.
(38:59):
They cannot get out of theirown way.
And the limiting beliefs, thecore beliefs that they have to
reference CBT again, the deeplyheld beliefs that they have
about themselves is it is notpossible for me.
So, what do we do when we dothat?
When we sincerely have thatbelief?
(39:19):
Number one, it's an unconsciousbelief.
We don't understand that that'sreally what's driving our
behavior.
But when you have a deeply heldbelief, it's not possible for
me.
I'm too broken.
We distort ourselves.
We convince ourselves ofstories that no, I'm fine, and
you guys are just beingdramatic, and it's not that bad,
(39:42):
and whatever.
And that's what caused a lot ofthe pain in my own childhood.
A lot of the people that I wassurrounded with, they could not
see the truth of their own pain.
They couldn't see theconsequences of their actions,
and they were deludingthemselves and lying to
themselves into not seeing thereality and not seeing the truth
(40:03):
and not seeing the consequencesof their behaviors.
Speaker 1 (40:07):
Yeah.
Bianca (40:08):
And the impact it had on them, too.
Because it's not just aboutwhat we do to other people, it's
about the pain that we'recausing ourselves.
So, what would I say?
That belief has carried you fora really long time.
And for a really long time, itserved a purpose, it kept you
(40:32):
safe, it kept you protected, ithelped you to feel a semblance
of safety in this world.
But is that belief actuallyhelping you anymore?
And what is that belief doingto you and what is it keeping
(40:57):
you from?
Because I was right there.
I mean, borderline personalitydisorder is one of like the top
five most misunderstood andstigmatized mental health
disorders.
You hear someone has borderlineand you're like, oh, they're
crazy.
It's like it's likeschizophrenia, right?
People just have this reallydeep misunderstanding of it and
(41:20):
what it is.
And I knew for a long time thatthat's what it was, but I
didn't want to admit it tomyself because I had the same
belief.
It's like I'm not crazy.
unknown (41:30):
Yeah.
Bianca (41:30):
I didn't want to acknowledge it.
I didn't want to believe it.
I didn't want to, I didn't wantanyone to weaponize it against
me either, because people do.
Speaker 1 (41:39):
Yeah.
Bianca (41:40):
Like I only recently started talking about it because
I've I've healed the narrativewithin me that I sincerely felt
like I was broken.
But it took a lot of effort andit took a lot of work.
And as someone who did havethat belief of I'm too broken to
change, it is possible to getto the other side of that,
(42:06):
whatever that is for you.
But it does have to start withvulnerability and the
acknowledgement that I'm notokay, and it's not okay.
Kertia (42:22):
Yeah.
Thank you for that.
That that was um yeah, thatwas, I think, what you said kind
of like really addressed thatso well, so well, because um
there's no judgment orcriticism, it's just like you
(42:47):
know, being situated in thatmindset for so long, you know,
how is that working for you?
You know, how is that workingfor you right now?
Does it still work?
Is there something else thatyou could try?
Is there something else thatyou could do?
Right, and it kind of justpoints towards that direction.
(43:11):
There's just no judgment, neverany judgment or criticism.
Bianca (43:16):
So well, I think the truth is there is a lot of
judgment and criticism in thisworld, and I think people know
that.
Like, there's so many of myclients come to therapy and
they're terrified because theydon't want people to think that
they're broken.
They don't want people to hurtthem, they don't want people to
(43:38):
think that there's somethingwrong with them because there is
a lot of people that will.
True.
There's a lot of people thatare gonna judge, there's a lot
of people that are gonnacriticize, there's a lot of
people that do think that if yougo to therapy and if you need
help, it's because you're weakand there's something morally
wrong with you.
And that belief has been therefor years and years and years
(44:01):
and years.
And luckily, it's starting toflip in the opposite direction.
Yeah.
But hundreds of years, decadesof people sincerely believing
that therapy was this shamefulthing that only the crazies went
to, and this fear of, oh myGod, they're gonna
institutionalize me and they'regonna put me in a mental
(44:22):
hospital with all the crazypeople.
Nobody wants to feel out ofcontrol, and nobody wants to be
judged for it.
And I sincerely believe it'sanother really big reason why
people won't ask for help.
Because what does it mean aboutme if I need someone else to
tell me how to live life?
But who taught us how toactually do it?
(44:46):
My parents weren't emotionallystable enough to be able to help
me regulate my emotions in asafe way.
It's part it's one of thebiggest reasons why I ended up
developing BPD.
There was so much emotionaldysregulation in my home, and
nobody taught me how to handleit because they were causing it.
Because they were suffering andthey were in pain.
(45:07):
So they didn't teach me.
And going through life,teachers don't teach this.
You don't learn that in school,and you don't learn that from
extended family.
And it's not until you're anadult where you're having to
make your own choices and you'rereaping the consequences of
your own actions where it'slike, oh, something isn't okay
(45:28):
here.
But what does it mean if youadmit that?
Yeah, you're broken.
Oh, you can't regulateyourself.
Oh, you need to go talk aboutyour problems to another person.
Speaker 1 (45:38):
Yeah.
Bianca (45:38):
There is so much criticism, but that criticism
comes from deep pain because thepeople who judge are usually
the people who also need help,but they're ashamed of their own
need for help.
And so they're gonna shame youto validate to themselves that I
don't need it either.
Kertia (45:55):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Everything you said, DearBianca, you know, let's get into
um borderline personalitydisorder for a bit because you
know, you mentioned that it canbe so stigmatized, um, which is
so true.
So, so true.
I think it's really importantthat we kind of address it as
(46:18):
well.
And I'd love for you to kind ofwalk us through what that can
look like for children and forsomeone who has worked through
healing and self-regulating,what that can look like on the
other side of the spectrum aswell.
I'd love for you to addressthat.
Bianca (46:38):
Yeah.
So borderline personalitydisorder, just like any mental
health disorder, it's a set ofsymptoms.
It's a set of symptoms thattypically come on from the
experiences that you grow up in.
So if you experience a majortrauma, your reaction to that
trauma is a subset of symptoms,which is categorized as
post-traumatic stress disorder.
(47:00):
If your life feels really emptyand worthless and despairing,
you develop a subset of symptomsthat is then depression.
If your life feels chaotic andscary and you feel uncertain,
you develop a subset of symptomsthat is anxiety.
(47:20):
And borderline personalitydisorder is the same thing.
So any mental healthchallenges, it's really a set of
experiences that are just onthe on the farther end of the
spectrum.
If you, if you were to look atthe diagnostic manual, so it's
called the DSM.
If you look at the diagnosticand statistical manual, it's
(47:41):
basically like this mega book ofall of the mental health
disorders and their symptoms andwhat causes them.
They all kind of look the same.
That is so true.
They all look the same.
Why?
Because it is common core humanexperiences that just end up
(48:03):
crossing a threshold.
Yeah.
But we've labeled them andwe've villainized them so much
that there's so much shamearound them.
Even if you look at somethingas extreme as BPD, it's a set of
symptoms that every personexperiences.
(48:23):
I could diagnose everyone andtheir mother with BPD if I
really wanted to, and if Ilooked hard enough at it.
That's why everybody now is anarcissist, right?
Kertia (48:32):
That's so true.
Bianca (48:33):
It's a subset of symptoms.
It's just where on the spectrumof those symptoms are you?
And so with me, it showed up asthis deep lack of a sense of
self.
So I had no idea who I was.
Yeah.
This chronic feeling ofemptiness, relationship issues,
(48:54):
obviously.
I was in and out of toxicrelationships literally up until
last year, and significantemotional dysregulation.
I couldn't handle my emotions.
And as a child, they were veryexternalizing.
So they came out on the peoplearound me, on my siblings, they
came out on my parents, um, onfamily members, on the way that
(49:18):
I acted out into the world.
And over the years, my shamegot so bad that it actually just
became internalized.
So I was self-harming.
I had severe suicidal ideation.
I never attempted, but I made alot of threats and gestures
(49:38):
because I was screaming forsomeone to just see me because I
felt so invalidated.
And that's where that's one ofthe core features and the core
components of borderlinepersonality disorder.
It's growing up in a childhoodwhere you feel deeply and like
systemically invalidated.
(49:59):
Your entire reality isbasically it feels like you're
being lied to.
And it's like you're at thecenter of this, of this story,
and everybody has one belief,but you have another.
And you're seeing these things,but it's like everyone is
telling you you're wrong.
(50:19):
And that's exactly what mychildhood was.
We all had to pretend and playthe game like nothing is wrong
because that was culturallyappropriate.
You don't talk about what'sgoing on inside the house.
Nobody knows what goes oninside the house.
You don't talk about thosethings.
Oh, we just got into a massivescreaming match that basically
(50:40):
led into a fist fight, but we'renot gonna talk about it and go
put your makeup on and let's gopretend like nothing happened.
It's like, what the hell?
Yeah.
So you go through that foryears and years and years, and
no sense of emotional safety, nosense of deep emotional
(51:02):
connection with people.
And you start to react to theworld based on that.
And that's what my experiencewas.
So over the years, thebehaviors stopped being
externalizing as I grew up, butthat deep sense of I don't know
who the hell I am, and notunderstanding my feelings and
(51:23):
feeling like I don't have aplace in the world, and feeling
dread and isolation andloneliness, that persisted for a
really, really long time.
And through, you know, CBT andDBT techniques like emotion
regulation, learning how toidentify what I'm feeling,
(51:45):
understanding what I'm thinking,learning how to build
relationships, learning how tointeract with other people,
learning why people are the waythat they are and my place in
the world.
All of that work really helpedme, excuse me, to feel grounded
in myself and to understand whoI am and my place in the world
(52:06):
and for the symptoms to subside.
Again, it's a spectrum.
We all have these experiences.
If I were to pull up the DSMand show the criteria, every one
of us has experienced at leastone of those at one time in our
life.
Speaker 1 (52:26):
Yeah.
Bianca (52:26):
And usually we experienced multiple of them
multiple times.
So who's to say not everybodyhas it?
It's a spectrum.
It's how much, it's how often,it's how intense.
And if we can look ateverything that way, then why
would there be any stigma?
We all have it.
Yeah.
Let's let's heal it, let's workon it, let's help everyone to
(52:46):
feel safe and deserving of beingloved.
And that's really what I dowith clients because that's what
I deeply needed.
Like I needed someone to tellme that I was okay and that I
wasn't bad and that it madesense why I did what I did
(53:06):
because I felt so unloved.
And my parents did the bestthat they could.
And most people, most parents,they're doing the best that they
can, and that also doesn't meanthat it's enough.
So I don't villainize myparents.
I adore them and I understandwhy they did what they did.
They were suffering.
You know, you can't do well toa child if you're not well.
(53:29):
Yeah.
And so I couldn't rely onsomebody else to fix me.
So I had to.
And for anyone who has BPD ordepression or trauma or anxiety
or obsessive-compulsive disorderor whatever the case may be,
wherever you are on thespectrum, label or no label,
(53:52):
there is a way to reduce thesymptoms and to have a way
better experience of life.
Yeah.
Kertia (54:03):
Yeah.
What would you say to um,because I know like this is uh
becoming more widespread now.
People combining um plantmedicine with their mental
health work.
What do you think about it?
I know one of the common onesis psilocybin, right?
(54:25):
What do you think about that?
Bianca (54:29):
If I'm being honest, I don't know enough about it to be
able to speak on it.
Like I haven't done enoughresearch to really understand
it, but there is a lot of dataand a lot of studies to show
that if it's done appropriatelyand under the proper care of a
physician who's studied this andwho knows what they're doing,
it can be incredibly effectivein certain circumstances.
(54:53):
So, like, I think it was, Ithink Gebor Mate has like an
entire chapter written aboutthis in his book, The Myth of
Normal, where he talks about theum positive effects of
psilocybin and some of theseother um plant-based medicines
for treating things like PTSD.
(55:15):
But again, I don't I don't knowenough about it, but I do know
that there have been studies todemonstrate its efficacy.
So there have been studies thatshow it works.
Um, but obviously, again, yougotta do it correctly and under
proper supervision.
And we're not saying go likeeat a ton of shrooms and trip
(55:36):
out because that's not effectiveeither.
Like a bad trip can destroyyour sense of being and your
sense of self.
So obviously that's not whatI'm recommending, but there has
been data to show that if it'sdone properly and correctly and
in the appropriate settingcombined with these therapy
(55:59):
treatments, it can be effective.
Kertia (56:02):
Okay, that's cool.
Yeah, I've heard I've hadpeople um on the podcast that
has spoken about theirexperience with it and um
they've had like very positivethings to say.
Um, I I just posed the questionbecause I wasn't sure if that's
something that you yourselfhave experience with, or if you
(56:25):
have clients that haveexperience with it too, for you
to give your own input on that.
But yeah, I've had um people onthat has had very positive
things to say.
I haven't tried it myself, butum yeah, it's definitely
something that um I've beenlooking into as well.
So yeah, that's that's prettycool though.
(56:47):
Is there anything that you'dlike to cover that we haven't
yet spoken about?
I know with this topic we cango so far, but we only have so
much time.
But I'd love for you to justspeak to anything else that we
haven't mentioned yet.
Bianca (57:09):
I guess just a sentiment that I'll say is your past and
your trauma only defines you tothe degree that you hold on to
it.
Yeah, you don't have to staywho you are, and you don't have
to stay who you used to be.
And I know that's a nice thingto hear, and so many people
(57:33):
don't believe that that'sactually true, but I've done it
for myself and I've seen it withclients and I've seen it with
other people.
The quality of your life is100% in your hands.
Now, are there things that areoutside of our control?
Absolutely.
(57:53):
Did I control growing up in thehome that I did?
No.
Did I control where I was born?
No.
Did I control how people abusedme and treated me?
No.
But I did have control over myresponse to it and what I did in
the aftermath of it and themeanings that I assigned to it,
(58:17):
and therefore what I did, andthat's where the real growth
lies.
If you give yourself permissionto acknowledge, yes, the world
can be very dark and scary, andalso acknowledge and I can do
something about it for me, thatcan make all the difference.
Kertia (58:38):
That's beautifully said, Bianca.
Thank you so much.
This was a lovely conversation.
Thank you.
Thank you for having me.
All right, can you tell us umwhere we can find you, your
work, and anything else thatyou're working on currently?
Bianca (58:55):
Yeah.
So, best place to find me is onsocial media.
So Instagram, TikTok.
It's Evolve with Bianca.
Um, I'm pretty active on those.
And then our website,evolveventurestech.com.
We have all of our podcasts onthere.
We have our one-on-one therapyand coaching services.
We're actually launching agroup coaching program um at the
(59:18):
end of the month.
It's a nine-week program, um,or it's a it's a three-month
program.
There's nine sessions, and wemeet every other week and we
basically do like basicallyeverything that I just talked
about.
It's a really cool experience.
We only allow 10 people intothe program each year.
We only do it once a year.
So we have a bunch of differentofferings and programs and
(59:42):
whatnot, but those are the bestplaces to find me.
So Instagram, evolve withBianca, or through our website,
evolveventurestech.com.
Kertia (59:52):
Perfect.
Thank you so much, Bianca.
Thank you.
Thank you so much forlistening.
I hope.
You found something of valuewithin this conversation, or
some takeaway, or something foryou to think about, maybe.
But again, I am so grateful foryou tuning in, for you
(01:00:19):
listening, for you engaging withthis work.
And just a heads up that thisrecording is also available on
our YouTube channel.
The video was actually postedright before this audio, so you
(01:00:39):
can head over there and take alook at that and please comment.
Comment, subscribe, tell uswhat you think, tell us how you
feel, tell us what takeaway youhad from this conversation.
I'd very much appreciate it.
It definitely helps with ourvisibility.
(01:01:00):
And of course, to reach out toBianca for her program or for
therapy or anything else, anyquestions that you may have for
her, her links are in the shownotes.
Alright, until next time.
Hello everyone.
Welcome back to the other sideof fear.
I'm your host, Kertia Johnson.
In this conversation, I mustsay it was so much fun.
I had a blast speaking to myguest, Bianca Thomas.
Now, for the first three tofour minutes, we were just
laughing it up.
(00:21):
We were being really silly.
But yeah, it was all in goodfun.
So Bianca, she is a licensedmental health counselor who
specializes in cognitivebehavioral therapy.
She's very passionate abouttrauma recovery and helping
(00:43):
others to build that inner loveand confidence for themselves.
Now, coming off of thisconversation, one thing I'd say
is that too many of us, for fartoo long, we know we're not
okay.
At some point, a lot of us cometo experience this deep feeling
(01:08):
or sense of unease within ourbodies, within our lives, with
how we feel.
And sometimes we often don'thave the words to explain what
that feeling is, but we canacknowledge that it's there.
(01:30):
And what a lot of us tend to dois we try to explain that
feeling away with all sorts ofthings, like maybe you're just
tired and need a break, or maybeit's time for another vacation,
right?
And some of us even try to numbthis feeling, of course, with
(01:52):
alcohol, drugs, sex, or anyother type of numbing agent
that's out there, because thereare many now.
But the thing is, we we hidefrom this feeling, we distract
ourselves from these things thatseeps into ourselves, into
(02:13):
every aspect of ourselves, andit eats away at us.
And we insist, we insist oncarrying on and pushing through,
pretending to be okay, whenwe're really not.
But the signs are all there.
The signs are always there inour day-to-day thoughts when we
(02:35):
look around our immediateenvironment.
What do you see?
How regulated is your life?
How regulated are youremotions?
How healthy are yourrelationships?
The conversations that you'rehaving every day.
(02:55):
What do they sound like?
How healthy is yourrelationship with yourself?
How do you speak about yourselfor to yourself when no one is
looking?
And what are you doing each dayto feed your soul?
(03:17):
What are you doing to give backto yourself?
What are you consuming?
How are you loving yourself?
And as Bianca said, not thefluffy concept of love, not the
concept of love that relies onsome type of external product or
(03:43):
thing or validation, but realdeep love for yourself
internally, you know, becausewe've all been through
something, some of which at onepoint may have seemed impossible
to get through.
But it's not just aboutsurviving, it's not just about
(04:06):
surviving the things that we'vebeen through.
We must also attend to thewounds that were created from
those experiences to recognizethat healing is our
responsibility.
Our healing rests on no oneelse but us.
(04:32):
So with that being said, let'sget into this beautiful
conversation that I had withBianca.
Oh, what was it before?
Bianca (04:53):
So when I first started um like podcasting and my
mission partner and I startedour business together, do you
know those like um oh my god,what are they called?
Like the little leaves that youcan buy, like from Amazon.
It was just randomly draped inmy background with like I just I
(05:15):
set it up so badly, it's noteven funny.
And then I just started puttingmore random stuff on my wall,
and it was like this lookslow-key ratchet as hell.
So let me not do this.
So as I like when I moved intothis new place, I was like, I
need to actually set this up,make it look professional, and
make it not look like a toddlercame and like tried to do a
(05:38):
school project.
It was a real fun time.
Kertia (05:42):
That was actually so funny.
Bianca (05:45):
I I am not creative in that sense.
I I do want to put the uh likewall paneling, like the wood
paneling eventually, but yeah,eventually.
I'm not doing that myself.
I'll destroy the wall.
Like, let someone else do it.
I'll break it.
You gotta know yourself, youknow what I mean?
Kertia (06:08):
Exactly.
Know your strands.
Bianca (06:11):
Yeah, that's not one of mine, not even remotely.
Kertia (06:16):
Oh, that's hilarious.
Oh gosh.
I mean, the wall looks goodthough.
So it doesn't look ratchet.
There we go.
Bianca (06:24):
So the way that I set it up was ratchet as hell.
I'm like standing on this chairand it's like swiveling around.
I have like a hammer in myhand.
I'm like trying to hammer itinto the wall.
I'm like, I shouldn't beallowed to use heavy machinery.
And in my case, a hammer isheavy machinery.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
It was just ridiculous.
Kertia (06:46):
It's the heavy machinery for me.
Oh man, that is too funny.
That is too funny.
Bianca (07:02):
Listen, you know your strengths, you know your
weaknesses, you play on themaccordingly.
That is not mine.
Kertia (07:09):
Yes, yes, yeah, I agree.
Oh gosh, that was a good laugh.
Oh, that was so funny.
I love it though.
I love it.
It's the hammer though.
(07:34):
The hammer.
Oh gosh.
No more machines for you.
Bianca (07:57):
Yeah, seriously.
Kertia (08:10):
Oh gosh, okay, okay.
Let me settle myself.
Oh man, all right.
So I guess we'll jump intomental health, I think.
It is.
(08:33):
Laughter is the best part ofmental health, yeah.
Bianca (08:38):
I'll be sitting in sessions with clients, and I'll
just say some of the dumbestthings ever, and they'll start
dying laughing.
That happened yesterday.
One of my clients is goingthrough, like, she's about to
enter into like a pretty badbreakup.
And I don't remember what Isaid, but I just cracked the
(08:59):
dumbest joke because she and Ijust have that rapport.
It's like she knows.
She just looked at me like,what the hell is wrong with you?
And then just started dyinglaughing.
And then I made a lesson out ofit, so it worked out, but I
love that.
Kertia (09:17):
I love that.
Bianca (09:18):
That's definitely the the approach that I take with
therapy is just being a realperson.
Yeah.
You know, like nobody wants tosit in front of a therapist who
they feel is a stiff and who'sjudging them, and it's just
ultra professional.
Like I've never, I've nevertaken that route with it.
(09:39):
And I and I sincerely believeit's made such a difference with
the clients that I work withbecause they're like, oh, this
is a real person sitting infront of me.
Like, it's not like me justsitting there taking notes,
going, hmm, the entire time.
It's like if like it feelsreal.
Kertia (09:59):
That is beautiful.
That makes all the differencefor real, though.
I love that.
So tell me more about yourpractice and how you help
people.
Bianca (10:11):
So I got my degree in cognitive behavioral therapy.
So I'm a licensed mental healthcounselor.
Technically, I I got my degreein clinical counseling
psychology.
And the specialty that I do isCBT.
And I've been doing it forabout five, six years now.
I think I started my program inyeah, I we started in 2019.
(10:34):
So I've been doing this for sixyears.
And what drew me so deeply toit was my life like as a child
and the things that I had gonethrough and going through life
feeling broken.
(10:54):
And so when I heard about thisprogram, it was like, oh, that
doesn't have to be what life is.
Like, there is another to this,there is something else,
there's more.
And then I started learningmore about CBT and about um how
our thoughts and our beliefsreally shape everything.
(11:16):
And it just fascinated me.
So going through that and thenbeing very into personal
development and growth, I reallycombine those two things in my
therapy practice, and thenobviously my humor and low-key
insanity, but it makes it areally good blend and mix.
(11:39):
So, like I work with a lot oftrauma survivors, I work with a
lot of people who've struggledwith severe clinical depression,
anxiety, relationshipchallenges, um, family of origin
issues.
And part of what I do, andhonestly, the biggest part of
what I do is really helpingpeople to see that there's
(11:59):
another side to what life couldbe.
That life doesn't just have tobe low self-worth and hating
yourself and fear and misery.
Like there's so much more thatlife can be if you're willing to
put in the work.
And because that's exactly whatI had to do.
(12:21):
Like that was the exact journeythat I had to take for myself.
And it made all the differencefor me.
And it's the only reason why Ican now do this for other
people.
Kertia (12:31):
Amazing.
Tell me more about your ownjourney and why it was important
for you because you know, likethat kind of leading you to get
that, be interested in the workthat you're doing right now.
What were some of the thingsthat you also had to work
through?
And how did CBT help you?
(12:51):
And did you also use um anyother healing modalities to help
you along the way?
Yeah, for sure.
Bianca (12:59):
Growing up, I was in a very, very old school Middle
Eastern family.
So they had very, very strongand strict beliefs about who a
child was supposed to be, whothe daughter was supposed to be.
It was very family-centered andvery image-centered.
So everything was aboutappearance, everything was about
(13:21):
what you look like and makingsure that you looked good for
everyone else in the culture.
And my parents, I love them todeath, but they were very
emotionally unintelligent andvery emotionally dysfunctional.
My entire culture was, and myentire family was.
But growing up in that, it wasreally hard for me.
(13:45):
I struggled at a really, reallyyoung age.
I rebelled from a really,really young age.
Now I know looking back, I hadborderline personality disorder.
And I didn't, nobody knew whatit was, and nobody knew that
that's what it was, but itdeveloped over the years from
(14:05):
years and years and years ofbasically being told I was a
problem and consistently beinginvalidated, and chaos was
ensuing in the house, but wenobody was allowed to talk about
it.
And I was basically the sirenbeing told, keep quiet, keep
quiet, don't talk about it.
(14:26):
So obviously I rebelled, and Iwas like, I'm gonna cause mayhem
because something needs tohappen.
Like, it's not okay.
It's not okay that we'refighting all the time.
It's not okay, all of thesethings that are happening.
And I rebelled so hard that Iended up in a relationship with
(14:47):
someone for four years where Iwas being mentally, emotionally,
and sexually abused.
And I didn't want anyone toknow, and I didn't want my
family to be right.
So I didn't tell them.
I didn't tell anybody what wasactually going on behind the
scenes.
I didn't tell anyone how he wasblackmailing me and
manipulating me to stay withhim.
And it broke me.
(15:12):
Like I had already I hadalready felt broken.
I already felt like I was thisworthless, broken, unlovable
human being.
But being in that relationship,and when I finally got out of
it, it was like I'm so lost, andI am so broken, and I don't
know who I am, and I don't know.
(15:32):
I was naive.
I didn't know anything.
Yeah.
So I'm like stumbling throughlife, trying to figure out who I
am and what everything is.
And eventually I meet thesementors of mine who introduced
me to personal development andgrowth, and they were the first
people to ever sincerely believein me.
And they were like, there's somuch more for you.
(15:55):
There's so much more that youcould be, but like you're
getting in your own way.
And I was in school forpsychology at the time, so it's
not like I was ignorant to theseconcepts, but I think there's a
difference between cognitivelyunderstanding it and then
actually embodying it andactually being behind the scenes
(16:16):
doing the work of it.
So they're the first people toever see anything in me.
And then I meet my businesspartner, Emilia.
We actually met doing uh MuayThai.
I don't know if you know whatthat is.
It's M M A basically.
That's so cool.
She beat the living hell out ofme and we became best friends
(16:36):
from it.
Because apparently I was theonly one that could take a
punch.
So she's like, I like you.
I was like, hey, I like youtoo.
And then we basically, it justwas off to the races from there.
That's so cool.
So we started our podcast in2020, right when the pandemic
was happening.
So we were gonna do everythingin person.
(16:56):
The pandemic happened.
It's like, oh, cool, we can doeverything online.
So we started building thisonline podcast, this online
business.
We are growing, we starteddeveloping a team.
I graduated from my master'sdegree, and I moved out.
And after that, everything kindof started tumbling down
(17:22):
because all of the inner workthat I had never actually done,
all of the challenges that I hadbasically been running away
from and all of theresponsibility that was being
put on me basically became somuch that it just all caught up
and I couldn't handle it.
And I was basically pretendingand making it seem like I was so
(17:46):
confident and I knew what I wastalking about because I was
basically trying to put on ashow, trying to prove to
everybody and really trying toprove to myself that no, no, no,
no, I can do this.
I can do this, I'm not broken.
So my business partner and Iend up having a conversation and
she's like, B, I care about youso much.
(18:09):
I care about you so much, butlike, we can't do this anymore.
You have so much growth youhave to do.
You, you're you're stillstruggling from your past,
you're struggling from therelationship that you had with
your family, the abuse and thetrauma that you never processed
(18:30):
through this is hurting us.
And she's like, I don't wantthis to end, but we need to
change something.
So she's like, here's what wedo.
We can either go our separateways and I will love you from
afar.
So we'll basically liquidateeverything, you'll take your
(18:50):
half, I'll take mine, and we'llgo our separate ways and I'll do
my own thing.
Or really take some time and dothe work.
Do the work, work on yourself,go to therapy again, heal your
trauma, and we'll continueeverything, but you're not gonna
be in the same space you werein.
(19:12):
And I really had to take sometime and think about it because
it was like, holy hell, mydeepest fear just came true.
I just got found out.
Everyone's deepest fear ofimposter syndrome, it just
happened to me.
I was found out for being animposter.
Yeah, and I was like, okay,what do I want to do here?
(19:33):
And I was like, I can't letthis be the story of my life.
That I had an opportunity toreally become something, to
become more than the brokenlittle girl who never thought
she was enough, who waspretending to be confident and
pretending to be more than shewas, but deep down she felt
(19:56):
broken and insecure.
And it was like, I'll dowhatever I have to do.
So I started going to therapy.
I was already doing coaching,so I ramped up the coaching that
I was doing, I ramped up thetherapy that I was doing, and I
really just started doing thework.
I was building that scaffoldingthat was never there before,
(20:20):
like really building thatinnermost part of me that I was
terrified of and really takingthe time to become this woman
that I never felt I could be.
And I gave up basically myentire past, I gave up the good
(20:43):
that I had to become better andto become something greater, and
to really make something ofmyself, and really having to
challenge and dive into thedeepest fear that I wasn't
enough and that I was unwantedand that I was alone.
(21:04):
Yeah.
And doing that, it is the onlyreason why I am where I am
today.
Getting to teach other peoplebasically how to do the exact
same thing through CBT, throughinner work, and through really
learning how to love yourselfand not in like the fluffy
(21:26):
feel-good way, but real, true,deep-seated self-love.
Yeah.
And uh teaching people to dothat now through podcasts like
this, through our own podcast,through the business, through
therapy, through speakingengagements.
It was basically going fromthis broken little girl to this
(21:52):
woman who gets to teach all ofthese people how to do the same.
And that's what really inspiredme into CBT because it was
like, I did it.
I know it works, and now let'shelp you.
Kertia (22:07):
Yeah.
Thank you so much for sharingthat, Bianca.
I love um, you know, like howyou just gave us the transition
from where you were to where youare now and what it took for
you to get there.
I love for you to dive intobecause there's different um
types of therapy.
And I think a lot of times whenpeople think about the field of
(22:30):
psychology or think aboutpsychologists in general, I
think a lot of people are kindof unaware that there are
different types of therapy andhealing modalities under that
umbrella.
So I'd love for you to talkabout CBT and what that entails
(22:50):
and how that kind of likediffers a little bit, but we
can't go through all thedifferent types.
There's so many, but like howthat would differ from like
another one, for example.
Bianca (23:03):
Yeah, for sure.
So CBT is the primary modalitythat I use, but I also use a lot
of other ones because I'm Idon't believe that the best
therapy is to be a one-trickpony.
I I believe that every modalityhas its value, but you have to
be grounded in one of them.
Like you have to have at leasta deep understanding of one.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
Yeah.
Bianca (23:23):
And then, you know, over time you can build the skills
of the other ones because theyall really feed into each other.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
Yeah, they do.
Bianca (23:31):
Like you can't you can't isolate them.
You have to look at the wholeperson.
And I really believe that allof the different therapy
modalities give you anopportunity to look at one
version.
And when you can put them alltogether and you can be really
skillful in using them, then youget to actually help the whole
person, which is what I reallyaim to do as a therapist and you
(23:56):
know, the work that peopleactually need.
So, what CBT does is CBTbasically looks at how your
thoughts, feelings, andbehaviors shape your world.
So CBT has the idea that overthe span of our life, we develop
these core beliefs, we developthese ideas and we develop these
(24:18):
notions of ourself, of theworld and other people from the
experiences that we have.
And when you mix that withgenetics and like epigenetics
and the brain, and you mix allthese things together, that
ultimately shapes the personthat you're gonna be in the way
(24:38):
you see the world.
And it frames the way that youperceive life.
And so, what CBT looks to do isto really understand okay, what
is that lens through which youare seeing the world?
How are you seeing yourself?
How are you seeing others?
How are you seeing the way itall works?
(25:00):
Is it serving you or is it notserving you?
And then let's kind of pull itapart and modify it so that you
can see things more clearly, sothat you can see it not through
the distorted lens of a brokenchildhood like me.
My entire belief structure wasI'm broken.
(25:20):
So every interaction and everyexperience was through the lens
of, well, I'm broken and nobodywants me, and I'm a problem and
I'm a bad person.
And I have this diagnosis, andthat makes something terrible of
me.
And I didn't know what it was.
I actually only recentlyrealized that that's what it
was, and I've done so much workto heal it.
(25:42):
I'm very low on the spectrumnow.
But because everything is aspectrum, right?
So, like I'm very low on thespectrum now, but it used to be
a lot higher when you know mylife was very dysregulated.
Yeah.
And CBT was one of the primarythings that allowed for me to
really understand why I do thinkabout myself the way that I do.
(26:05):
Why is it that when I'm goinginto a situation, I really
assume everybody hates me orsomething is deeply wrong with
me.
And then why am I reactingbased on that?
So I CBT is the primary onethat I'll use.
I also adore internal familysystems.
(26:25):
I'm not sure if you've everheard of it.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
I've heard of it, yeah.
Bianca (26:28):
So for those listening, Richard Schwartz came up with
this when he was working withum, he was a family counselor
originally, and I think he didpsychoanalysis.
And he was like, I don't thinkthis actually works.
So he started working withwomen struggling with anorexia,
and he started noticing thesepatterns of the way that these
(26:51):
women were speaking.
And they were kind of talkingabout themselves, like they had
these different voices in theirheads.
And he's like, Are theyschizophrenic?
Like, are they having auditoryhallucinations?
Are they having delusions?
And what he ended up findingout was no, we actually all have
these.
We have this subsystem ofparts, these little, these
(27:11):
personalities, these componentsof us.
So these different parts of ourmind that developed throughout
our life to keep us safe and toprotect us, and that we're built
out of fear, or that we'rebuilt out of trauma or challenge
or joy or whatever.
Very similar to the movie Um Ohmy god, I'm blanking so hard.
(27:36):
The kids' movie, the one withall Inside Out?
Inside Out, thank you.
It it's basically like that, orvery similar.
It's not necessarily emotions,but it's these
sub-personalities.
Yeah.
And it blends perfectly withCBT because what I'll do as a
CBT therapist is I want toidentify the core of who you are
(27:57):
and understand it so you canunderstand it.
And then what are all of yourparts?
And how are the ways that youand this little family that you
have within you?
How are you guys allinteracting with each other?
What are the beliefs that youhave?
How is that shaping yourexperience of life and your
existence?
And how can we help them to allget more grounded and centered
(28:20):
and stable and connected so thatyou can then have the best life
possible?
Kertia (28:26):
Yeah, thank you.
That was a beautifulexplanation.
When you talk about, um,there's so many questions that I
could ask you, so many placesthat we could go with this.
Um, but you know, when you talkabout the different components
in our brain and how we'vedeveloped these things to
(28:49):
protect ourselves and then howour own self-concept develops
and how we interact with theworld in accordance to that
self-concept and how we perceiveourselves, how we perceive the
world.
How can we begin to recognizethat there is something that I
(29:10):
guess how we are perceivingthings, how we are perceiving
ourselves, how we are perceivinglife, that is not working
because I think it takes I mean,from my own personal
experience, even it took me awhile to recognize that
something was wrong.
You know, like we I think mostof us go through this spiral for
(29:37):
a while before we recognizethat something isn't working,
and thankfully for you, you hadsomeone that loved you so much
to point that out to you to letyou know like this isn't
working, like something hereneeds to be looked at.
So, how can we begin torecognize that for ourselves?
(29:58):
Because we don't all Havesomeone that is so attentive or
is caring enough to have thatconversation with us, you know,
like your friend could have donethat for you.
So, how can we begin to do thatfor ourselves?
That's a really good question.
Bianca (30:19):
I think the truth was I did know.
I did know.
I knew that things weren'tokay.
I knew that I wasn't feelingokay.
I knew that I knew that thingswere harder than they should
have been.
And I felt the pull all thetime, but I was too afraid to
(30:40):
admit it to myself.
And I don't know if that's whatthe case was for you, but for
the majority of the clients thatcome to see me, they say deep
down, I knew I knew that thingsweren't right.
I knew I felt this discordwithin me.
It was like I was fightingmyself all the time, and I knew
(31:05):
it, but I wasn't ready toacknowledge it yet.
Most of us run away fromourselves our entire life.
I mean, that is exactly what Idid.
I ran away from my family tothis relationship.
I ran from this relationship toother relationships.
Then from that relationship, Idive-bombed into personal
(31:25):
growth, but actually notactually growing.
I was, but I was using growthas a crutch to avoid doing the
real inner work.
And I got really good atpretending so much so I had
myself fooled.
But you ever have that momentwhere you're laying down in bed
(31:49):
and it's this you feel thatbuzzing in your body of like, oh
my God, something isn't right.
We all get moments like that,but we just get really good at
avoiding it or numbing it orsuppressing it or justifying it
away.
And what I had to do, because Imean, even before Amelia said
(32:13):
something to me, it was like, Iknew.
I knew I was pretending, I knewI was hiding, I knew that I
felt terrible, but I was tryingto prove myself wrong.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
Yeah.
Bianca (32:26):
Rather than acknowledging, B, something
isn't right here.
And I know you're scared, and Iknow you don't want to be found
out, and I know you don't wantto like quote unquote prove that
you're not good enough.
But what if you actuallyadmitting that is the thing
(32:46):
that's gonna allow you to becomegood enough?
What if you actuallyacknowledging your deepest fear
is the thing that allows you toget to the other side of it and
to change and to evolve and tobecome this greater version of
yourself?
Yeah.
(33:07):
I mean, to the premise of yourshow, the other side of fear.
The other side of fear for mewas everything I ever dreamed
of, but you kind of gotta gothrough the muck and through my
uh Amelia, my mission partner,calls it lonely land.
Yeah, it's like that middlepart of the journey where like
everything blows and it's sohard, and you're like, I don't
(33:29):
know who I am, and I don't knowwhere I'm going, but I'm just
I'm just doing it.
I'm in the middle of it.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
Yeah.
Bianca (33:37):
When you can go through that, the other side of that
sincerely is such a better life.
But it does start with theacknowledgement of the pain that
you've been running away from.
We might not know exactly whatit is, we might not be able to
(33:58):
pinpoint it, we might not beable to specifically identify
it, but just start with theawareness of okay, something
feels off.
And then you take the nextstep.
And hopefully, for a lot ofpeople, what that next step
would be is maybe going andseeing a therapist or starting
(34:18):
journaling or starting, youknow, YouTube and reading books.
Like, I know not everybody hasaccess to a therapist and they
don't have access to the friendsthat I had.
I'm so blessed to have had thepeople in my life that I did.
But you don't need that.
There's so many resources outin the world that are free that
(34:42):
you can start there.
Kertia (34:45):
Yeah.
So much truth.
What do you say, you know,thinking about all of this?
Because this is something I'veheard people say before,
unfortunately, and it breaks myheart.
Like, I've literally heardpeople say, you know, I'm too
broken to be fixed.
(35:06):
Like, like, and I understand, Iget it, I get it, because when
you kind of hear their story,you're just like, oh my god, you
know, how how did you evensurvive that?
But they truly deeply feel likethey're too broken, they're too
(35:31):
far gone, you know.
It like you'd suggest therapyand suggest all the things, and
they're like, no, I'm too fargone.
Like, what do you say tosomeone who that is where they
are?
Like, well, none of us canreally get there until we're
(35:54):
ready, right?
There's that aspect wherebyyou're not gonna get that
healing unless you're trulyready to be healed.
There's that aspect that wehave to acknowledge, yeah.
But then when someone issituated in that headspace for
(36:17):
so long, and you as a friend ora family member, all you want to
do is to help them and embracethem and help them find a way,
and you're like, no, I'm toobroken, I'm too forgone.
How like how do you what do yousay to that?
Bianca (36:42):
There's a few people I'm thinking of that in my personal
life, I love them so much, andI see how badly they are
suffering, more than they evenknow, because not not to sound
arrogant, but like they don'thave the awareness that I do
(37:04):
about the consequences of whatthey're doing, because I've
studied this for almost a decadenow.
And I remember one of thesepeople, they've caused so much
suffering to themselves andother people because of how
deeply broken they are, and howmuch they need help, and how
(37:25):
traumatized they've been fromtheir own life, but they won't
acknowledge it.
And I remember this personsaying, I would never go to
therapy.
Like, I don't need that.
And there was like thiscontempt in their voice, and
they were like disgusted by theidea of it of like, I don't need
(37:47):
that.
Speaker 1 (37:47):
Yeah.
Bianca (37:50):
And it took everything in me not to break down and be
like, you are causing yourselfand everyone in your life so
much pain and suffering becauseyou are refusing to see how much
you do need help.
And I since that has been thehardest part of this mission for
(38:17):
me and this journey for me,like with the business that we
have, Evolve, right?
Our business is literallycalled Evolve.
We are deeply grounded androoted in the concept that
everybody is capable of change.
Every single person is capableof growth and change.
Maybe not the same amount,maybe not in the same degree,
(38:38):
maybe not even in the same way,but we all have the potential to
be better than we are and toheal and to grow in a way that
is meaningful for us.
And the hardest part of thisjourney for me has been the
realization of how few peopleare ever actually going to do
that because of exactly whatyou're saying.
(38:59):
They cannot get out of theirown way.
And the limiting beliefs, thecore beliefs that they have to
reference CBT again, the deeplyheld beliefs that they have
about themselves is it is notpossible for me.
So, what do we do when we dothat?
When we sincerely have thatbelief?
(39:19):
Number one, it's an unconsciousbelief.
We don't understand that that'sreally what's driving our
behavior.
But when you have a deeply heldbelief, it's not possible for
me.
I'm too broken.
We distort ourselves.
We convince ourselves ofstories that no, I'm fine, and
you guys are just beingdramatic, and it's not that bad,
(39:42):
and whatever.
And that's what caused a lot ofthe pain in my own childhood.
A lot of the people that I wassurrounded with, they could not
see the truth of their own pain.
They couldn't see theconsequences of their actions,
and they were deludingthemselves and lying to
themselves into not seeing thereality and not seeing the truth
(40:03):
and not seeing the consequencesof their behaviors.
Speaker 1 (40:07):
Yeah.
Bianca (40:08):
And the impact it had on them, too.
Because it's not just aboutwhat we do to other people, it's
about the pain that we'recausing ourselves.
So, what would I say?
That belief has carried you fora really long time.
And for a really long time, itserved a purpose, it kept you
(40:32):
safe, it kept you protected, ithelped you to feel a semblance
of safety in this world.
But is that belief actuallyhelping you anymore?
And what is that belief doingto you and what is it keeping
(40:57):
you from?
Because I was right there.
I mean, borderline personalitydisorder is one of like the top
five most misunderstood andstigmatized mental health
disorders.
You hear someone has borderlineand you're like, oh, they're
crazy.
It's like it's likeschizophrenia, right?
People just have this reallydeep misunderstanding of it and
(41:20):
what it is.
And I knew for a long time thatthat's what it was, but I
didn't want to admit it tomyself because I had the same
belief.
It's like I'm not crazy.
unknown (41:30):
Yeah.
Bianca (41:30):
I didn't want to acknowledge it.
I didn't want to believe it.
I didn't want to, I didn't wantanyone to weaponize it against
me either, because people do.
Speaker 1 (41:39):
Yeah.
Bianca (41:40):
Like I only recently started talking about it because
I've I've healed the narrativewithin me that I sincerely felt
like I was broken.
But it took a lot of effort andit took a lot of work.
And as someone who did havethat belief of I'm too broken to
change, it is possible to getto the other side of that,
(42:06):
whatever that is for you.
But it does have to start withvulnerability and the
acknowledgement that I'm notokay, and it's not okay.
Kertia (42:22):
Yeah.
Thank you for that.
That that was um yeah, thatwas, I think, what you said kind
of like really addressed thatso well, so well, because um
there's no judgment orcriticism, it's just like you
(42:47):
know, being situated in thatmindset for so long, you know,
how is that working for you?
You know, how is that workingfor you right now?
Does it still work?
Is there something else thatyou could try?
Is there something else thatyou could do?
Right, and it kind of justpoints towards that direction.
(43:11):
There's just no judgment, neverany judgment or criticism.
Bianca (43:16):
So well, I think the truth is there is a lot of
judgment and criticism in thisworld, and I think people know
that.
Like, there's so many of myclients come to therapy and
they're terrified because theydon't want people to think that
they're broken.
They don't want people to hurtthem, they don't want people to
(43:38):
think that there's somethingwrong with them because there is
a lot of people that will.
True.
There's a lot of people thatare gonna judge, there's a lot
of people that are gonnacriticize, there's a lot of
people that do think that if yougo to therapy and if you need
help, it's because you're weakand there's something morally
wrong with you.
And that belief has been therefor years and years and years
(44:01):
and years.
And luckily, it's starting toflip in the opposite direction.
Yeah.
But hundreds of years, decadesof people sincerely believing
that therapy was this shamefulthing that only the crazies went
to, and this fear of, oh myGod, they're gonna
institutionalize me and they'regonna put me in a mental
(44:22):
hospital with all the crazypeople.
Nobody wants to feel out ofcontrol, and nobody wants to be
judged for it.
And I sincerely believe it'sanother really big reason why
people won't ask for help.
Because what does it mean aboutme if I need someone else to
tell me how to live life?
But who taught us how toactually do it?
(44:46):
My parents weren't emotionallystable enough to be able to help
me regulate my emotions in asafe way.
It's part it's one of thebiggest reasons why I ended up
developing BPD.
There was so much emotionaldysregulation in my home, and
nobody taught me how to handleit because they were causing it.
Because they were suffering andthey were in pain.
(45:07):
So they didn't teach me.
And going through life,teachers don't teach this.
You don't learn that in school,and you don't learn that from
extended family.
And it's not until you're anadult where you're having to
make your own choices and you'rereaping the consequences of
your own actions where it'slike, oh, something isn't okay
(45:28):
here.
But what does it mean if youadmit that?
Yeah, you're broken.
Oh, you can't regulateyourself.
Oh, you need to go talk aboutyour problems to another person.
Speaker 1 (45:38):
Yeah.
Bianca (45:38):
There is so much criticism, but that criticism
comes from deep pain because thepeople who judge are usually
the people who also need help,but they're ashamed of their own
need for help.
And so they're gonna shame youto validate to themselves that I
don't need it either.
Kertia (45:55):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Everything you said, DearBianca, you know, let's get into
um borderline personalitydisorder for a bit because you
know, you mentioned that it canbe so stigmatized, um, which is
so true.
So, so true.
I think it's really importantthat we kind of address it as
(46:18):
well.
And I'd love for you to kind ofwalk us through what that can
look like for children and forsomeone who has worked through
healing and self-regulating,what that can look like on the
other side of the spectrum aswell.
I'd love for you to addressthat.
Bianca (46:38):
Yeah.
So borderline personalitydisorder, just like any mental
health disorder, it's a set ofsymptoms.
It's a set of symptoms thattypically come on from the
experiences that you grow up in.
So if you experience a majortrauma, your reaction to that
trauma is a subset of symptoms,which is categorized as
post-traumatic stress disorder.
(47:00):
If your life feels really emptyand worthless and despairing,
you develop a subset of symptomsthat is then depression.
If your life feels chaotic andscary and you feel uncertain,
you develop a subset of symptomsthat is anxiety.
(47:20):
And borderline personalitydisorder is the same thing.
So any mental healthchallenges, it's really a set of
experiences that are just onthe on the farther end of the
spectrum.
If you, if you were to look atthe diagnostic manual, so it's
called the DSM.
If you look at the diagnosticand statistical manual, it's
(47:41):
basically like this mega book ofall of the mental health
disorders and their symptoms andwhat causes them.
They all kind of look the same.
That is so true.
They all look the same.
Why?
Because it is common core humanexperiences that just end up
(48:03):
crossing a threshold.
Yeah.
But we've labeled them andwe've villainized them so much
that there's so much shamearound them.
Even if you look at somethingas extreme as BPD, it's a set of
symptoms that every personexperiences.
(48:23):
I could diagnose everyone andtheir mother with BPD if I
really wanted to, and if Ilooked hard enough at it.
That's why everybody now is anarcissist, right?
Kertia (48:32):
That's so true.
Bianca (48:33):
It's a subset of symptoms.
It's just where on the spectrumof those symptoms are you?
And so with me, it showed up asthis deep lack of a sense of
self.
So I had no idea who I was.
Yeah.
This chronic feeling ofemptiness, relationship issues,
(48:54):
obviously.
I was in and out of toxicrelationships literally up until
last year, and significantemotional dysregulation.
I couldn't handle my emotions.
And as a child, they were veryexternalizing.
So they came out on the peoplearound me, on my siblings, they
came out on my parents, um, onfamily members, on the way that
(49:18):
I acted out into the world.
And over the years, my shamegot so bad that it actually just
became internalized.
So I was self-harming.
I had severe suicidal ideation.
I never attempted, but I made alot of threats and gestures
(49:38):
because I was screaming forsomeone to just see me because I
felt so invalidated.
And that's where that's one ofthe core features and the core
components of borderlinepersonality disorder.
It's growing up in a childhoodwhere you feel deeply and like
systemically invalidated.
(49:59):
Your entire reality isbasically it feels like you're
being lied to.
And it's like you're at thecenter of this, of this story,
and everybody has one belief,but you have another.
And you're seeing these things,but it's like everyone is
telling you you're wrong.
(50:19):
And that's exactly what mychildhood was.
We all had to pretend and playthe game like nothing is wrong
because that was culturallyappropriate.
You don't talk about what'sgoing on inside the house.
Nobody knows what goes oninside the house.
You don't talk about thosethings.
Oh, we just got into a massivescreaming match that basically
(50:40):
led into a fist fight, but we'renot gonna talk about it and go
put your makeup on and let's gopretend like nothing happened.
It's like, what the hell?
Yeah.
So you go through that foryears and years and years, and
no sense of emotional safety, nosense of deep emotional
(51:02):
connection with people.
And you start to react to theworld based on that.
And that's what my experiencewas.
So over the years, thebehaviors stopped being
externalizing as I grew up, butthat deep sense of I don't know
who the hell I am, and notunderstanding my feelings and
(51:23):
feeling like I don't have aplace in the world, and feeling
dread and isolation andloneliness, that persisted for a
really, really long time.
And through, you know, CBT andDBT techniques like emotion
regulation, learning how toidentify what I'm feeling,
(51:45):
understanding what I'm thinking,learning how to build
relationships, learning how tointeract with other people,
learning why people are the waythat they are and my place in
the world.
All of that work really helpedme, excuse me, to feel grounded
in myself and to understand whoI am and my place in the world
(52:06):
and for the symptoms to subside.
Again, it's a spectrum.
We all have these experiences.
If I were to pull up the DSMand show the criteria, every one
of us has experienced at leastone of those at one time in our
life.
Speaker 1 (52:26):
Yeah.
Bianca (52:26):
And usually we experienced multiple of them
multiple times.
So who's to say not everybodyhas it?
It's a spectrum.
It's how much, it's how often,it's how intense.
And if we can look ateverything that way, then why
would there be any stigma?
We all have it.
Yeah.
Let's let's heal it, let's workon it, let's help everyone to
(52:46):
feel safe and deserving of beingloved.
And that's really what I dowith clients because that's what
I deeply needed.
Like I needed someone to tellme that I was okay and that I
wasn't bad and that it madesense why I did what I did
(53:06):
because I felt so unloved.
And my parents did the bestthat they could.
And most people, most parents,they're doing the best that they
can, and that also doesn't meanthat it's enough.
So I don't villainize myparents.
I adore them and I understandwhy they did what they did.
They were suffering.
You know, you can't do well toa child if you're not well.
(53:29):
Yeah.
And so I couldn't rely onsomebody else to fix me.
So I had to.
And for anyone who has BPD ordepression or trauma or anxiety
or obsessive-compulsive disorderor whatever the case may be,
wherever you are on thespectrum, label or no label,
(53:52):
there is a way to reduce thesymptoms and to have a way
better experience of life.
Yeah.
Kertia (54:03):
Yeah.
What would you say to um,because I know like this is uh
becoming more widespread now.
People combining um plantmedicine with their mental
health work.
What do you think about it?
I know one of the common onesis psilocybin, right?
(54:25):
What do you think about that?
Bianca (54:29):
If I'm being honest, I don't know enough about it to be
able to speak on it.
Like I haven't done enoughresearch to really understand
it, but there is a lot of dataand a lot of studies to show
that if it's done appropriatelyand under the proper care of a
physician who's studied this andwho knows what they're doing,
it can be incredibly effectivein certain circumstances.
(54:53):
So, like, I think it was, Ithink Gebor Mate has like an
entire chapter written aboutthis in his book, The Myth of
Normal, where he talks about theum positive effects of
psilocybin and some of theseother um plant-based medicines
for treating things like PTSD.
(55:15):
But again, I don't I don't knowenough about it, but I do know
that there have been studies todemonstrate its efficacy.
So there have been studies thatshow it works.
Um, but obviously, again, yougotta do it correctly and under
proper supervision.
And we're not saying go likeeat a ton of shrooms and trip
(55:36):
out because that's not effectiveeither.
Like a bad trip can destroyyour sense of being and your
sense of self.
So obviously that's not whatI'm recommending, but there has
been data to show that if it'sdone properly and correctly and
in the appropriate settingcombined with these therapy
(55:59):
treatments, it can be effective.
Kertia (56:02):
Okay, that's cool.
Yeah, I've heard I've hadpeople um on the podcast that
has spoken about theirexperience with it and um
they've had like very positivethings to say.
Um, I I just posed the questionbecause I wasn't sure if that's
something that you yourselfhave experience with, or if you
(56:25):
have clients that haveexperience with it too, for you
to give your own input on that.
But yeah, I've had um people onthat has had very positive
things to say.
I haven't tried it myself, butum yeah, it's definitely
something that um I've beenlooking into as well.
So yeah, that's that's prettycool though.
(56:47):
Is there anything that you'dlike to cover that we haven't
yet spoken about?
I know with this topic we cango so far, but we only have so
much time.
But I'd love for you to justspeak to anything else that we
haven't mentioned yet.
Bianca (57:09):
I guess just a sentiment that I'll say is your past and
your trauma only defines you tothe degree that you hold on to
it.
Yeah, you don't have to staywho you are, and you don't have
to stay who you used to be.
And I know that's a nice thingto hear, and so many people
(57:33):
don't believe that that'sactually true, but I've done it
for myself and I've seen it withclients and I've seen it with
other people.
The quality of your life is100% in your hands.
Now, are there things that areoutside of our control?
Absolutely.
(57:53):
Did I control growing up in thehome that I did?
No.
Did I control where I was born?
No.
Did I control how people abusedme and treated me?
No.
But I did have control over myresponse to it and what I did in
the aftermath of it and themeanings that I assigned to it,
(58:17):
and therefore what I did, andthat's where the real growth
lies.
If you give yourself permissionto acknowledge, yes, the world
can be very dark and scary, andalso acknowledge and I can do
something about it for me, thatcan make all the difference.
Kertia (58:38):
That's beautifully said, Bianca.
Thank you so much.
This was a lovely conversation.
Thank you.
Thank you for having me.
All right, can you tell us umwhere we can find you, your
work, and anything else thatyou're working on currently?
Bianca (58:55):
Yeah.
So, best place to find me is onsocial media.
So Instagram, TikTok.
It's Evolve with Bianca.
Um, I'm pretty active on those.
And then our website,evolveventurestech.com.
We have all of our podcasts onthere.
We have our one-on-one therapyand coaching services.
We're actually launching agroup coaching program um at the
(59:18):
end of the month.
It's a nine-week program, um,or it's a it's a three-month
program.
There's nine sessions, and wemeet every other week and we
basically do like basicallyeverything that I just talked
about.
It's a really cool experience.
We only allow 10 people intothe program each year.
We only do it once a year.
So we have a bunch of differentofferings and programs and
(59:42):
whatnot, but those are the bestplaces to find me.
So Instagram, evolve withBianca, or through our website,
evolveventurestech.com.
Kertia (59:52):
Perfect.
Thank you so much, Bianca.
Thank you.
Thank you so much forlistening.
I hope.
You found something of valuewithin this conversation, or
some takeaway, or something foryou to think about, maybe.
But again, I am so grateful foryou tuning in, for you
(01:00:19):
listening, for you engaging withthis work.
And just a heads up that thisrecording is also available on
our YouTube channel.
The video was actually postedright before this audio, so you
(01:00:39):
can head over there and take alook at that and please comment.
Comment, subscribe, tell uswhat you think, tell us how you
feel, tell us what takeaway youhad from this conversation.
I'd very much appreciate it.
It definitely helps with ourvisibility.
(01:01:00):
And of course, to reach out toBianca for her program or for
therapy or anything else, anyquestions that you may have for
her, her links are in the shownotes.
Alright, until next time.
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