May 23, 2025 • 64 mins
Key Takeaways:
- The power of a woman’s bleed.
- Follow your fear. It is usually pointing you in the right direction.
- Cancer can be linked to repressed emotions and unresolved issues.
What happens when we finally listen to the wisdom of our bodies? For Pooja Bakhai, it meant walking away from a prestigious Harvard PhD program after battling stage four cancer, moving across the country on intuition alone, and eventually finding herself in the Amazon rainforest on a profound healing journey, after having a conversation with a tree, on a beach, while in Mexico.
This conversation is a masterclass in authentic living. Pooja shares how, despite completing most of her doctoral work, she couldn't even open her research files – a clear sign her path needed to change. Touching on her journey with plant medicine, she shares how this experience helped her recover repressed memories of childhood sexual abuse – memories her body had been holding onto for decades, manifesting as physical illness. She shares her beautiful poetry about "The Divine Feminine Creatrix Codes", reflecting the wisdom she gained about honouring our bodies and their natural cycles.
Pooja concludes by telling us how her new relationship with fear, has supported her through processing grief, and recently taking the brave step of reporting her abusers to authorities – all part of releasing stagnant energy that often manifests as dis-ease.
Ready to explore your own authentic path? Connect with Pooja through her website for a quick chat, or dive into her published poetry that celebrates one's own inner wisdom and healing power.
All links to today's guest's work and official site
Pooja’s Website ➡️ https://www.poojabakhai.com
Instagram Account ➡️ @lakshmisacredarts
Facebook ➡️ Authenticity Coach & Healer
Books Mentioned in This Episode
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Instagram @discovertheothersideoffear
Youtube The Other Side of Fear Podcast
Kertia's Email: discovertheothersidepodcast@gmail.com
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All health and mental health topics within the content of this body of work are for informational, discussion, reflective, and entertainment purposes only. The Other Side of Fear and its contents does not replace nor does it claim to replace the knowledge, expertise and advice of licensed healthcare professionals.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Today's guest, Pooja Bakai, is a survivor of stage
four cancer and childhood sexualabuse, and our conversation is
such a reminder of the powercontained in sharing our stories
.
And Pooja's journey is a truetestament to her current work as
an authenticity coach helpingothers along on their own
(00:22):
healing journeys.
Coach helping others along ontheir own healing journeys.
The thing is, when we are inalignment, there is not much
needed to do other than to showup trust, the process and take
action.
I had such a blast talking toPooja, and she writes amazing
(00:49):
poetry too.
All right, let's get into it.
We're talking about just yourwhole journey.
Right, we spoke about thecancer.
We spoke about journey.
Right, we spoke about thecancer.
We spoke about everything thatyou've been through, but I
(01:16):
really wanted you to highlightyou know you being an
authenticity coach right now andthe journey that you took to
get here, what that was like foryou, Like how did it come about
?
I know definitely it came outof the story that you shared
with me, so I'd love for you totouch on that today.
And, yeah, Awesome.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
So my journey to becoming an authenticity coach,
it was a very magical andintuitive journey.
It was a very magical andintuitive journey.
It started with me leaving,making the decision to leave
what was making me unhappy,which was and just not feeling
aligned with my gifts or my path, which was.
(01:57):
At the time I was in a PhDprogram studying education
policy at Harvard.
Studying education policy atHarvard, and although I was knee
deep into the program, I waspretty, pretty far in.
Phd is a long road.
I was, I would say I was twothirds of the way done.
I had finished all mycoursework, a lot of research
(02:19):
and all my exams, so I just hadthe dissertation left.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
And, yeah, after some serious thought, the way I knew
that I wasn't supposed tocontinue was I had created a
research paper an originalresearch paper about how
teachers of color navigateworking in schools and school
policies to best serve theirstudents, and I was supposed to
(02:49):
work from that paper to continue, and I actually couldn't even
bring myself to open the paper.
I couldn't even bring myself toread what I had done.
And that's when I knew thatsomething had shifted with the
(03:10):
journey of the cancer and if Icouldn't open it, there's no way
I was going to find the energyto complete it, and at the time
I didn't have any energy to playwith.
I think we've all been there inour lives at a certain point
where you kind of are on anenergy budget and you have to
prioritize what brings youenergy and what makes you feel
excited or nourished in life,and at the time I had just
(03:36):
noticed that this wasn't it.
So, despite all of the work thatI did and all of the work that
I did to even get there which itwas a dream of mine to go to
Harvard when I was younger and Idid I ended up graduating with
my master's in education policy,and I told my advisors, as much
as I love some of the thingsthat I've been able to do here,
(03:59):
this is not the right path forme right now and I don't know
why, but it's just not.
And they really respected mydecision and they said they'll
support me in whatever else Idecide to do, and so I feel like
I had also a lot of grace inthat space from people that it
mattered to me what feedbackthey gave me, and actually one
of my advisors ended up sendingher daughter to me when I
(04:22):
started coaching and I coachedher daughter.
She's eight years old at thetime, but it just goes to show
you like the reason why did Istart coaching?
I mean, I just was sitting with, so I didn't.
I wasn't in the program and Ihad the space to decide what do
I want to do next?
And when I was in the program Iwas living in Boston.
But after my cancer treatment Isaid, uh, I don't know if we're
(04:46):
allowed to curse on thispodcast.
Probably not oh, okay, I saidfuck it.
I said fuck it.
Um, I gotta, I gotta, go moveout to a sunny place, um, that
I've always dreamed of living in.
Um, I, I love surfing.
I had picked it up during mytime, actually during my cancer
(05:07):
treatment, and I'm such a watergirl, I love the ocean and I
always, always, dreamed ofliving out in California, which
is where I went to college.
But I never went back and Ialways wanted to, and so I moved
out to San Diego and everyonethought I was nuts because I was
not in great physical shape.
I had just done eight months ofchemo and people were just like
(05:29):
, what are you doing?
But I didn't care.
That was one of the firstintuitive decisions I made.
I moved out there, left theprogram and then I had the
spaciousness to feel into whatis it I want to do?
And I had always, always, always, been great at coaching people
and I had five years ofexperience in education and
(05:53):
teaching at the time, and evenmore if I really think about it.
I was an RA and undergrad and Ijust have always been teaching
and counseling and coaching inone capacity or another, even
when I was like eight years oldor seven years old, you know.
(06:13):
So I just had known that thatwas a gift of mine, and my
friends and my community hadalways reflected that back to me
, and I had always been findingways to do that in my jobs,
wherever I was, whatever I wasdoing.
And so, and even in the program, you know, as a teacher, I was
teaching courses, assisting incourses, running facilitating
groups and just doing a lot ofteaching and coaching.
(06:34):
And so I knew I had the skillset to do it and I knew I had
the intuition as well, becauseas coaches, it's not just
structured, a structured planthat makes you effective, but
also just being able to connectwith people and really trust our
own intuition about where to goin a certain session or how to
show up.
And so, yeah, I just had a cometo Jesus moment.
(06:58):
I always say I'm a woman, Ibleed every month.
I always say on, I'm a woman, Ibleed every month, and on my
bleeds.
I really get a lot ofinformation and about what
directions I'm supposed to go, alot of premonitions and things
like that, and I had a bleed inSan Diego and it was clear as
(07:18):
day.
It's like you're going tobecome a life coach.
You're starting this now, sothat's how I started, yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
Oh my gosh, I love that for you.
You know talking about yourmenstruation and how that's kind
of like shows up for you whenit comes to your intuition.
You know speaking about beingan intuitive healer.
How does that now play a rolein the work that you're doing?
Speaker 2 (07:46):
It's amazing that we're even talking about it and
I really would just like toacknowledge that.
You know it's taken me a lot ofwork to get here where I can
speak about the bleed and alsopublicly, like without any shame
, but really as the celebrationof the power that it holds and
how much magic there is in thatspace.
(08:06):
And I would say today it's verysimilar.
I just have more awareness overthat time of my month of what
it means and how much can happenand move energetically during
that time.
And I'll say that for a coupleyears, you know, I have been
(08:27):
coaching since I found in mycoaching business, but the way
that I've coached and where I'velived has changed.
And so for part of that timesince then till now, I was
living in the Amazon rainforestand I was living with different
indigenous communities, toodifferent ones, and the longer I
(08:49):
stayed there, the more Ilearned about this time of the
bleed and how to honor it andthe power that ancient societies
understand that it holds.
In fact, they see it's evenmore powerful than some of the
(09:12):
most powerful plant medicinesand sacred plants that they give
people to create thisconnection with God or the
universe.
They say it's actually morepowerful than these plants.
Women have it.
You know, there's a lot of waysto manage our energy and just
protect our energy during thattime, and you know the way I see
it, it's different for all ofus.
We're, all you know, uniqueindividuals, but it was nice to
(09:35):
go there and understand that thereason that they had some of
these boundaries around thewomen's bleed is not because
they disrespected the woman, butbecause they understood the
power that she holds, especiallyduring during this time, and it
is a time of purge, of release,so I always like to remember
that and honor that too.
So sometimes the purge can makespace for, like, new
(09:59):
information to come in, and so Iexperienced that too, and I
also pay attention to my dreamseven more during this time.
And I'll just say I don't knowif anyone else experiences this,
but I'll just have like randomlike aha moments, like I'll just
be sitting around and then justbe like, oh my gosh, I'm going
(10:21):
to do a retreat, or oh my gosh,I gotta do this, um and I I
think that's just cool.
So I did I did write a poemabout the bleed, if you ever
want to hear it.
Um, I actually have my bookright here, which was not even
planned, but I love it.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
Do you want to share it with us?
Speaker 2 (10:39):
yeah, sure do, please do okay, okay, I know you're a
writer as well, so this isdefinitely meant to be, I'm sure
, your audience.
You have a lot of artisticpeople.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
Oh yeah, let's see if I can find it.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
Oh, here it is, okay, ready?
Yes, all right.
Creatrix Codes.
Our flow is advanced magic.
This ain't no beginner's dance.
Wild love, sorcery, creatinglife, death, transmuting
collective agony, beauty, power,wisdom, compassion.
(11:17):
We are the feminine force,whispering winds, uprooting lava
, sounding thunder, making waves.
This is us.
Feeling is healing, feeling isqueening.
Honor the bleed, rememberingthe gifts of our ancients,
dripping down lineage.
The divine feminine creatrixcodes, the sacred way, the only
(11:41):
way.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
The only way Breathe, rest, protect the sacred
passageway.
The original Creatrix Matrix.
This is our medicine.
That's beautiful.
The Creatrix Matrix Matrix.
I love it.
I love it.
That is so good, pooja.
That's amazing.
Oh, thank you.
Have you like, published thatanywhere?
Speaker 2 (12:09):
Well, it's in this book, right here, nice, yes,
that's your book.
This is it, this?
Speaker 1 (12:15):
is it Amazing For your book, is it just like pure
poetry?
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Yes, it's a poetry collection.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
Nice, I love it.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
Amazing.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
Yeah, yeah, and I'm sure you'll tell us where we'll
find your book later on.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
Sure, sure, sure.
I can do it now too.
So we don't forget now you canjust find it on amazon, simple
as that.
Um, you can also go on mywebsite, and I have a link there
to puja bakaicom.
Yeah, that's perfect and I havea link there to pujabakaicom.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Yes, Perfect yeah, this is the perfect opportunity
to plot.
So, oh man, but tell me youknow cause you were into Amazon
rainforest.
How did you even end up there?
Speaker 2 (13:03):
Like what happened.
It's such a a good question.
It's such a crazy story.
Um, I love that you asked mebecause, um, the mystical part
of me definitely sees life aslike the series of magical
moments I had never watched likeAlice in Wonderland before.
I don't know if you've everseen it.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
Have you seen it?
I love it.
It's my favorite.
It's my favorite the book, themovie, everything.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
Well, it came into my field, or like I was introduced
to it.
More like my husband loves ithe always like is quoting it and
showing me like these YouTubeclips from it but I watched it
in full for the first time, likethis past week, and I was just
like, oh my gosh, all morningtoday I was like I think I'm
Alice.
I think I'm Alice, I mean, Ithink.
(13:53):
Alice in a lot of us rightexactly oh my goodness, exactly
that's what I was thinking.
It's like we are.
We are all out straight andyeah, that's probably why that
movie was um such a hit.
I don't know why, but probablyeveryone feels connected in one
way or another to that sense ofmagic magic, or is able to like
remember it when they see themovie yeah um.
(14:16):
So yeah, I I've been thinkingabout that a lot today and just
being really grateful about themoments that brought me the
magical moments, the series ofmagical moments that brought me
the magical moments, the seriesof magical moments that brought
me to the jungle, because it wasnothing short of a miracle um
it was nothing short of amiracle.
But, yeah, I so with my cancerjourney.
(14:37):
It brought up a lot ofquestions for me um, mostly how,
like, what, what I was cause.
I had a Western medicinebackground.
I actually studied biology andum, like was a scientist in
college and um had planned to goto medical school, but like
felt didn't.
It's not an alignment for me.
Once I actually had to make thedecision, and so there was a
(15:03):
science part of me that thatknew and understood a lot of
things.
Actually, I had done cancerresearch before.
I had studied cancer cells.
Both my parents were doctors.
I had read a lot of theirmedical books about cancer, even
as a child, so I knew a lotabout the science behind cancer
(15:24):
and what was going onscientifically in my body.
But I also had this sense thatthere was more to the story,
that there was just somethingdeeper going on and that if
everything is just energy, thenthere was some energy within me
that was creating this physicalreality.
So I had a lot of prayers thatI spoke into the winds about
(15:50):
finding healing and findingtruth, and I think ultimately,
it's probably that those prayersand that choice that I made
that I wanted to know.
I wanted to go deeper.
I wanted to understand whatreally happened to me at that
time, because it wasn't just mybody that changed, or the
decision of quitting my programand starting my life coaching
(16:13):
business.
It wasn't just that.
There was something much biggergoing on that I could sense,
but I couldn't put my finger onit.
For the life of me.
I, a part of me, like thought Iwas going a little crazy
because I'm just like what?
Like nothing feels the sameNothing, um.
So I went out to San Diego andI think probably that was an
(16:35):
intuitive decision.
But basically once I went thereI started meeting people, one
after the next.
That would sort of lead me tothese different healing
modalities.
And it was so interestingbecause I had never really
experienced a lot of these likehealing modalities before, or
spiritual, a way of looking, aspiritual lens on the world, an
(16:56):
emotional lens.
And one of those series, one ofthose you know parts in the
long chain, led me to this womanwho was serving for, you know,
in the San Diego area there area lot of like more European like
(17:17):
lineage practitioners and I hadat the time was looking for a
woman of color to just learnwith and learn from, and
(17:39):
everything I was learning I wasalso using in my coaching
practice.
So it was sort of a part of mytraining as well, and I didn't
know that at the time, but Ilearned that over time and so,
yeah, I found this ceremony,this woman.
Someone recommended me to go toher and I agreed and I learned
very quickly that the blessedtea also had some psychedelic
(18:00):
plants inside, yes, and so shewas like you know, do you still
want to do it?
Not because I didn't know thatwhen I signed up.
And she's like how do you feelabout it?
And I said I feel fine.
I said I trusted everythingthat brought me to this point.
I've really relied solely ontrust for the last year,
(18:22):
trusting the guidance, and sinceI'm here and I feel called to
sit in this experience, let's gofor it.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
And I only bring that up because I think the plant
spirits had also a lot to dowith me ending up in the Amazon
jungle, because over there theywork a lot with sacred plants.
And so I brought that upbecause, yeah, after I started
working with the plants, a lotof things started to change in
my life a lot faster.
(18:50):
I started feeling betterphysically very quickly.
Um, I started becoming more andmore sensitive and intuitive.
I started understanding more,like how to manage my
sensitivities and also how totrust and hear all the different
messages and guidances.
(19:11):
And, yeah, very soon after thatI got like a guidance to go to
Mexico.
Like I kept having visions ofthese jungles.
I had no idea about the Amazonrainforest at that point, but I
a friend of mine actually waslike, oh, you should just come
and stay at our place in Mexicofor a while and I was like, okay
(19:35):
, I mean, why stop now?
Right, why stop now?
I love it.
I was living in a small town onthe West Coast called Sayulita.
It's probably a lot more peoplehave heard of it now.
(20:16):
It's not an unpopular place togo.
It's a beach town, also greatsurf, but amazing culture,
really kind people and a lot ofdifferent kinds of people kind
of find their way there fordifferent reasons, and so I got
to live in their amazing spacein the jungle, which was nice,
and I continued doing mycoaching work and I wanted to
continue honestly exploring myrelationship with these plants,
(20:36):
because they had already helpedme heal so much and I knew there
was more.
And when we talk about theother side of fear, I'm not
going to lie it's the last thingI wanted to do.
My friends were like, when Igot there I think I saw them for
like one day before they headedout and we had a conversation
and they looked at me and theysaid, well, what do you think
(20:57):
you're going to focus on orwhat's calling you right now?
Right now.
And I spent the entire timetalking about how I had worked
with these plant medicines andthey had really, like, opened up
a lot for me, but also thefurther exploration of them
really terrified me, and so Ijust talked about how scared I
was of doing of following thatpath even longer.
(21:19):
And they said, well, it soundslike you need to follow your
fear and you need to askyourself why are you so scared
of this thing and go for it andI was like, oh, here we go.
But yeah, so in Mexico I hadthe opportunity a few times to
explore a little bit more andwhat it really.
(21:42):
It had amazing results for me,which I'm happy to share later
on if it comes up.
And then, yes, the way I like toshare this story because it is
100% true and so crazy is oneday I woke up and I would often
take these walks along the beachand I walked and there's a
little jungle path that you cango through to get to a more
secluded beach and there's alittle jungle path that you can
(22:02):
go through to get to a moresecluded beach.
So I was walking like alongthis jungle path and it's so
beautiful and mystical.
Even in there there's just somereally giant trees and a lot of
green and it's quiet.
And so, just walking along andthere's an opening and that's
where you can sit by the waterand there was a tree by the
(22:23):
water and I was just sitting bythe tree and like reading this
book and, um, I think the bookwas actually like about
synchronicities.
Now that I remember it was likeone of the book Chopra's books.
I think it was either that orlike a book with quotes in it,
um, that were like about life.
I can't remember which one ofthose books it was, but it was
(22:44):
one of those two, I know forsure.
And I was reading it and then Ijust started to talk to the tree
, like in my head.
I wasn't talking out loud, Iwas talking to my head and I
just asked the tree, like what's, you know what's what's next
for me?
Like what, where is this going?
You know what's what's next forme?
(23:06):
Like what, where is this going?
And it said to me you, you gotto go to the Amazon rainforest.
And that's when, like, thisconversation stopped being like
a conversation in the head, likeI just started bawling my eyes
out.
I was crying, like I washuddled over myself in the sand,
like crying my eyes out.
And I remember I had my phone onme and I sent a text message to
(23:31):
one of my friends, like live,like I'd love those voice notes.
So I sent like a voice note andI was just like crying and I
was like I know this soundscrazy, but this is the kind of
friend I could tell these thingsto.
I said, you know, this treejust told me this and I, I um, I
(23:53):
really feel it and I don'tunderstand it, but I feel it.
And then I told another couplefriends the next day and then
within the next day somebody hadinvited me to Ecuador, ecuador,
and to their place.
They had some land there andthey knew some people who worked
in the jungle with someindigenous communities and so,
yeah, it's just okay, great.
(24:14):
I said like there's connectionissues for a second.
So yeah, in just like two days,there was a clear path for
exploring how to get.
There was no, I knew thiswasn't going to be something
like.
I looked on google and found,like found like a viaje, a trip,
and was just like, oh yeah, letme go on this tour.
(24:37):
Like it wasn't like that, um,but yeah, I just, and then and
then, after I had thatconversation, I I went back to
the States, to San Diego, Igathered my self and my things
and I felt into it for a coupleweeks.
Any time I get like a bigdecision like that, I like to
just take a moment, be like okay, like let's just take some time
(24:58):
before you make a life alteringdecision to buy a one way
ticket to another country.
And so then I just like sharedit with some people.
I said, oh, that sounds great,you'll be fine.
You know, you speak someSpanish, you'll be fine.
So I went, and I went alone andI spent a couple of weeks in
the capital city where I landed,just to get my bearings and
(25:21):
adjust to the land and just thepeople, everything.
It's a big, it's a bigadjustment.
And, um, yeah, and then a coupleof weeks later, I was on the
land of my friends and we hadone ceremony there, a fire like
ceremony, um, like a Temezgalceremony, and that ceremony is
(25:42):
when I met my now husband andalso when I came out of that
Temezcal, the guy who wasrunning it said to me hey, we're
going to the jungle next week.
You want to come?
And I was like, oh my God, it'shappening, it's really
(26:03):
happening, it's really fuckinghappening.
I'm like this is wild, like youliterally cannot make this up.
I know, so that's how it started.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
That's how it started .
That's amazing.
What a journey, crazy.
Oh, my goodness.
That's what you call trust andfaith.
Thank you, I agree.
Oh, you know thinking about allof that because, literally, you
allowed yourself to just be ledlike through the whole thing.
(26:38):
So, with all of the fears andall of the uncertainties, what
is your relationship with fearright now?
Speaker 2 (26:47):
Honestly fear right now is like a motivator for me.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
That's good, yeah, it's like oh, you feel scared
about this.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
Okay, let's do it.
It's like oh, you feel scaredabout this.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
Okay, let's do it.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
Oh my gosh, it's basically like that, yeah, I
mean, and it doesn't have to belike an immediate thing, but
it's, you know, it's like, oh,you're afraid to become a mom.
Let's like make a baby tonight.
It's not always like that quick, but that's my mindset.
That's my mindset.
It's like fear is pointing youin the right direction.
(27:25):
Um, it's, it's a friend, andit's just like let's walk
together, let's go for a walk.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
Yeah, you know, I love that.
That's a good perception shift,you know, because like going
through the cancer, walking awayfrom your PhD program ending up
in.
Amazon like meeting yourhusband, girl, I know, I know.
(27:51):
Oh my goodness, Talking to thetree.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
I don't think the tree knew at the time like the
tree's about to get famous, likepeople are about to hear about
this tree the trees.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
I hope the tree is still there.
I'm pretty sure the tree isstill there.
One thing about trees is thatthey tend to outlast mankind,
true true, we're still there.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
I, I really hope so.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
Yeah, that is amazing .
You know, during your processof working with plants, do you
want to talk about any specificplant medicine that you've
worked with, or maybe any otherbeings that you've communicated
with during the process and howthat was like for you?
Speaker 2 (28:41):
Wow.
Well, thanks for being willingto even talk about this realm.
I know it's something that'sbecoming more and more
mainstream and at least in theUS and some other countries, and
I also think I will say, beforeI even talk about it, it's like
one message I always like toremember for myself.
(29:04):
That I've learned through myown experiences working with
plant medicine in differentcommunities and different types
of facilitators is just toalways use your discernment and
always be open to learning whatthe plants themselves can show
you and teach you, and trustingyourself in your relationship to
(29:27):
that plant and building thatrelationship just like you would
like, we're saying, any friendor any energy, even the energy
of fear, because I can say,definitely, every time that I
worked with it, it's a purespirit, it's like a loving
(30:08):
spirit.
So, when it comes to the plantsthemselves, I think for me I
always felt something verycurious.
I was always very curious aboutwhat they had to share, because
we're humans and, even thoughwe have some similarities with
plants, we have a differentconsciousness than plants, and
(30:31):
so I always wondered they'vebeen sharing?
They've been here, like yousaid, much longer than us, and
so what is their perspective ortheir teachings on what can help
us be in that vibration of love, you know, mostly in balance
and harmony that nature and theearth has with itself.
And so, yeah, just trustingthat vibration and those
(30:57):
teachings helped me a lotbecause, yeah, that's what I'll
say they're basically plantsthat, um, different communities
(31:26):
have used culturally, um, assacred plants because they've
developed a relationship withthis plant over centuries, um,
and they've preserved thatculture.
And I'll say for my culture inIndia, I believe that we also
have used like morehallucinogenic or psychedelic
plants a long time ago that weuse for healing and curing
(31:50):
different ailments andeverything and balance and
introspection and everything.
And so I think, like one commonplant that I will say between
(32:19):
India and the communities that Iwas learning with in the Amazon
is tobacco and it's notsomething people normally think
of as a medicine because in oursociety now it's been really our
relationship with plants ingeneral has really changed.
Plants in general has reallychanged.
(32:39):
But yeah, tobacco is one of,they say, the original plants,
like the grandfather plant, andit was interesting to me how we
have that history of respectingin ancient times.
You know now it's these plantscan be abused or not used in a
way that will bring peoplehealing necessarily.
(32:59):
I don't know if that's the case, maybe they still are bringing
healing in a way.
Speaker 1 (33:04):
We just can't see it, I guess it's the intention
behind the use right yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
Yeah, yeah, and I love that too.
Yeah, that's, that's, that'sreally big, but yeah, so I would
just say they're just plantsthat have been used in prayer or
in ceremony.
And I think another cool thingthat I'll also share about the
plants is something I, like wewere, I knew about like eating
(33:31):
some of these plants.
I knew about praying with themwithout consuming them, just
holding them or praying withthem, offerings, things like
that, but I had never reallylearned how to use them in plant
baths or anything like that,like in terms of like, yeah,
just like a bath.
(33:52):
But over there we did a lot ofthat as well.
So it was not just working withthem in ceremonies, but
day-to-day, um, or week-to-week,uh, working them in plant baths
.
And it's the same thing, likeyou said, like the intention and
and um.
I also think that you know, themore and more I work with these
(34:15):
plants and maybe others havethis experience too um, it's, it
feels more and more like, um,like a remembrance, like we
actually, we already know, apart of us maybe already knows
how to communicate with theseplants and a part of us like,
let's say, we're on our moon orsomething and we're feeling like
(34:36):
a little like out of balance ormaybe tired or cranky or
something, or have cramps.
I wonder what would happen if wejust asked ourselves, or spirit
, or something, and like what,what, what plants should I?
I want to make a tea orsomething, or take a plant bath,
(34:57):
what plants should I use?
And I'm curious, like whatplants would come to you or to
me, because I think sometimes wealready know, like what we, um,
what our bodies like need, orwhat our spirits need, um, and
so that's also another nicething about it.
It's like it doesn't have tojust be certain kinds of plants.
(35:18):
Everything has its place.
Everything has its place andits purpose, and I always like
to imagine the earth.
I always like to imagine thatit has given everything that we
need for our healing.
So everything we need for ourhealing is already here on the
earth with us.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
Yeah, and I love that you just mentioned that,
because currently, as as we'respeaking, I'm actually bleeding
and I actually did something ofthe sort like, okay, I'm feeling
this discomfort.
What can I use, like, what willbe best for me right now?
I've been using turmeric forthe past few days, wow, yeah.
(35:58):
I've been using turmeric forthe past few days, wow, yeah, so
, and it's been so good, likeeverything has been calm, nice
since then.
I've been cool.
So it's funny that you justmentioned that.
I'm just like, yeah, that wasjust me a couple of days ago.
Speaker 2 (36:13):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
I'm feeling some type of way Like what can I use?
And it's just like turmeric,some ginger, like it was good,
it was really really good, sovery helpful.
And yeah, plant baths.
I love that you mentioned thatplant baths are the real deal.
Like they're so good andthey're so helpful for all sorts
(36:36):
of things for real.
Yeah, cleansing or um, after agiven birth, like there's just
so many ways they can use it, orjust like for general
relaxation, like there's so manypurposes, so many ways that you
(36:56):
could use um plant baths, sothat's really cool.
I love to know, though, likeyou know, you haven't worked
with plants for some time, youknow, haven't worked with
different plants what would yousay that you have learned so far
, what were one of the biggestlessons that you've learned from
(37:18):
working with plants?
Whether it be something aboutyourself or something about your
journey or life, you know,whatever it may be, what stands
out to you that you've learnedso far?
Speaker 2 (37:31):
Great question and offline I would love to talk
about to hear how you use theplant baths, because it's been
like a transition going from aplate like in the jungle, where
you can collect the plantsoutside, cook them over a fire
(37:52):
and water and then go to theriver and bathe with them,
versus here, and so I would loveto hear it too, just to also
continue sharing with people andpracticing those things here.
So to answer your question,okay, thank you.
(38:13):
To answer your question abouttakeaways One of the biggest
things that I will circle backto this idea of remembrance that
I said like we're likeremembering something or maybe
there's something we alreadyknow.
So working with a plantmedicine first of all, really
(38:38):
helped me to remember somethings that I knew but I had
suppressed, about my ownchildhood trauma, and while
these memories actually didn'tsurface in the ceremonies
themselves, I think the plantsknew that if they surface in the
ceremonies, for whatever reason, I might not trust it fully, so
(39:05):
the memories actually came backto me outside of ceremony, but
I really believe it was theplants that helped open me up
and that energy of facing myfears and the energy of
connecting with and trusting theprocess and breathing and
learning how to.
(39:26):
It was like ceremony would giveme the tools to face these
things in my life.
Like learning how to managemyself emotionally when you're
feeling in your body so chargedup on working with the plant
medicine because so much, somany different hormones in your
body are like being released andyou know it's described as like
(39:47):
being near death and it's itcan be so intense.
Manage myself in those spaces.
It gave me a lot of confidence,unknowingly, like unconsciously
(40:07):
, out in real life, to gothrough intense things and make
my way through them with grace,basically, and without like
disrupting everything around meand burning it all down or
having some sort of like crazy.
Like not doesn't mean you know,you don't have a panic attack
or you don't feel sad, nothinglike that, but I mean like
really, while being able tostill walk my path, while still
(40:29):
being able to live my life and,um, yeah, and just be me.
Uh, so, yeah, it just and youknow that reminds me of Alison
Wonderland, because she likewent through that whole ceremony
and came out of it with likethe confidence to like sing her
song, yeah, so it's like that.
(40:49):
It gave me the confidence andthe trust in myself and the
belief in myself to sing my song, you know.
Speaker 1 (40:58):
That's beautiful.
Yeah, that's really beautiful,puja.
And it's true like sometimesthe insight that we gain from
plant medicine happens after thefact.
I think I went through the samething recently with cacao and,
um, I went in with the tensionof seeking clarity and ceremony
(41:20):
was lovely, was so nice, andthen after that, I think by the
first week going into the secondweek, after that, so much
information started coming to meand you know, just like how we
were saying earlier, like whenyou're just sitting there and
things just occur to you and I'mjust like you know, like all
(41:44):
this information suddenly comesto you and you're like, wow,
right, it was mind blowing.
And I think what it taught me isthe importance of trusting my
intuition, the importance ofjust honoring that connection,
like staying connected to myselfand allowing my intuition to
(42:06):
lead me, because a lot of thethings that I needed clarity
about were the things that I wasstruggling with, I was
resisting, I was fighting withwhen I really didn't need to
this entire time, because thewhole time the answers were
always within me.
And the cacao showed me that.
And just by sitting, you know,I remember I was sitting on this
(42:31):
same couch, you know, like aweek after the ceremony and all
the answers were just there andI'm just like, oh my God, like
how did I know?
How did I not know?
But then I recognized that Iknew the entire time, right, but
there was just this cloud andthe shadow and I just couldn't
(42:54):
see through it, right?
Speaker 2 (42:55):
Yeah exactly.
Speaker 1 (42:57):
Yeah, it taught me so much.
So it's really good of yousaying that sometimes the
answers might not come in thatparticular session of working
with the plant, but the plantcontinues to work with you even
after the fact.
It stays with you.
The spirit of the plant doesstay with you, you, and it
(43:20):
continues to work with you evenafter the ceremony.
So it's very, very good thatyou mentioned that.
Speaker 2 (43:28):
Thank you so much for sharing your story and your
specific example with cacao.
It's really nice to hear yourown experience too, because
definitely talking about theseplant medicines can also feel
like a vulnerable.
We're talking about a lot of,you know, unique topics today,
and it's nice.
Speaker 1 (43:47):
I think a lot on the podcast.
We did a lot on the podcastyeah, I figured, I figured there
will be more, just wait.
Yeah, there will be futureepisodes.
Like you know, sometimes Iremember when I first started a
podcast and I know a lot of thethings that I talk about a lot
of people around me don't talkabout, and I'm just like people
might look at me like this girlis not okay.
(44:10):
I'm just like I don't care.
I enjoy talking about this andI will.
I shall.
Um, yeah, you can't shut me upbeauty beauteous.
Yeah, it's gonna be spokenabout, um, whether you agree or
not.
Um, yeah, on the podcast we wetalk about a lot of things that
(44:32):
are out there, right, um, thatsome people may consider like
it's a bit woo, you know.
So yeah, and that's okay, yeah.
Yeah, I do me, you do you what?
Speaker 2 (44:49):
Well, it's good.
It's good not to hide much,because the thing about the
things that people don't want totalk about or that maybe aren't
the norm to talk about, is thatit's not like they're not
happening or that exactly youknow, like our, like the
menstruation, or even plantmedicine, or like people how
(45:14):
cacao is probably in mostgrocery stores now, turmeric
same thing, um, tobacco can befound everywhere.
Speaker 1 (45:25):
So we either talk about it or yeah intention and
perception, and I've had peopleshare, like, very vulnerable
stories as well, you know, and Imean that's what it's all about
, like we're having a genuineauthentic connection and we're
sharing something heart to heart, and maybe if we had more
(45:46):
conversations like this, maybethe world will look a little bit
different, you know what I mean?
Or a lot different, right?
And that's why podcasts likethis are really important, so
that we can have theseconversations, because this is
life, this is real life, right?
Whether you want to talk aboutit or not, it's happening.
Speaker 2 (46:06):
True, true.
Speaker 1 (46:07):
Yeah, but thank you so much.
Like you know, I've I'm reallyenjoying this conversation, you
know.
I just wanted to dial it backto one thing about the cancer
that you went through.
I know you mentioned yourchildhood trauma you don't have
to get into it but I wanted youto talk about when you recognize
(46:30):
where your cancer come from andhow that manifested physically
for you, because we spoke aboutthe energy the last time we
spoke about the energy, you knowwe spoke about the last time we
spoke about stuck energy in thebody, the stagnant energy or
things that were like, I guess,things that you said that you
forgot, right, or?
(46:51):
the things that we might evendisassociate from and and stuff
like that.
So I want you to talk a bitabout how you recognize why the
cancer manifested for you andthen kind of like how you began
to work through that and beginto move some of that energy out.
Speaker 2 (47:12):
Thank you for asking this question and for trusting
like also my experience with howI saw it.
Like also my experience withhow I saw it, um.
So, yeah, you know, one thingthat's interesting that I will
say first is cancer and the typeof cancer and, like the stage
(47:33):
that I had.
It was like quite strong uh ofa.
It's a quite strong diagnosisand, um, I hope that by me
sharing about my experience withhealing this, I can really, if
anybody listening is, havinganything with their body, but
especially the people that arehaving something really strong
like um, maybe like a cancerthat for themselves or something
(47:56):
else, like a, like a bigdiagnosis that in society
sometimes is viewed as like, ohmy god, like you're gonna die,
like, um, something like this.
It it's um, hopefully, yeah, itjust gives some hope and hope in
context that, um and I say thatbecause the way that I got, the
way that I healed and work withthese energies and moving these
(48:18):
energies it it took.
It took a long time in, or likein our linear time uh, meaning
I was diagnosed in 2019, thecancer itself went away quickly,
um, that year, but the physicaleffect, the physical
physicality of my body, remainedworse than actually.
(48:41):
Before I was diagnosed.
There was no cancer, but mybody was clearly in need of
something in need of myattention and it did not.
It did not let go and say, oh,cancer's done, I'm good to go,
go ahead, do whatever you want,no way.
That's actually what led me toworking with the plant medicine,
because I literally could noteven go on walks, I could not go
(49:04):
on runs.
I had so many differentsymptoms that were I just was
going nuts Like it was just sohard.
So that's what motivated me tokeep looking and keep working
with it and keep askingquestions and not giving up.
And the first message that Igot so it came like in steps and
(49:26):
waves and, I do believe, likethe universe gave me what I
could handle at the time.
So in the beginning theuniverse did not tell me oh
Pooja, you have 30 years ofrepressed, 29 years of repressed
memories.
Here they are, good luck.
It did not work like that atall.
It was first things first.
(49:46):
They said the message that Igot, or the intuition I had, was
you got to leave the program,you're not on the right path,
this isn't for you right now.
There's nothing wrong with thispath, it's just not not for you
.
So you need to go in adifferent direction.
You need to stop doing whatyou're doing.
So I did do that and I believethat's actually why the cancer
(50:07):
went away.
But other people might havetheir opinions about why it went
away, but that's what I felt.
It was a path to redirection.
And I needed a seriousredirection because I wouldn't
listen if my body had not beenlike the happiest camper before
that.
But I wouldn't, I wouldn't havequit, I just wouldn't have.
(50:30):
I was too stuck in that, inthat way of being.
So it sort of needed to besomething big, and I joke about
that with myself because it'slike I felt like, oh, and I joke
about that with myself becauseit's like I felt like, oh, god
(50:51):
knows me like need something big, something to be like, yeah,
wake up, wake up.
So that was the first messagewas you know?
And?
And then, and then it wasn'tuntil I was in Mexico.
Well, and I'll say I don't knowif you've heard of Louise Hay
or if that's something thatmaybe listeners are familiar
with, but she's basically who'sdone a lot of work around
(51:13):
correlating physical dis-easewith like a story that's in our
bodies or an energy that's inour bodies.
And she has like a just a chart,a very simple chart of like a
(51:35):
host of a whole list, like amedical dictionary, but then
instead of medical terminologyit just says like built up anger
or indecision, stuff like that.
And at some point I used tolike live and breathe with that
book, but thankfully I haven'thad to use it in some years now.
But you know, I used to lookinto it a lot and I'm sure I
(51:58):
looked up cancer at one pointand it felt to me just
intuitively like the cancer wasa lot of built up resentment and
anger and hatred turned inwards, because if it was turned
outwards I would have been sortof maybe it's both, but it
(52:19):
really felt like it was stuck,like it wasn't turned outwards
because there was no expressionof it.
It was just sitting in thereand about to explode inwardly
and I actually I don't know whatit says in Louise Hay's book.
It's called Heal the Body orsomething.
I don't know what it is cancer,what it is cancer on there.
(52:39):
Um, but there was another onethat was acne that I used to
look up a lot because I hadreally really bad acne since I
was probably around 11 years oldand, yeah, and it never went
away in adulthood and it wasreally really like like cystic
acne and I would pray about thisbecause it was really hard and
(53:00):
it made me feel really left outin the sense of, yeah, I felt
like I was eating all the rightthings and taking care of my
body and yet it just keptshowing up.
Nothing that I did worked overthese 20 years.
And in her book I rememberseeing it's like dislike of self
hiding from the world, like apart of you.
(53:20):
It's like you're sort ofputting on this mask almost
because you don't want to showyour true face.
And a lot of these body imagesare also very like metaphorical,
like if you have a problem inyour foot, it's because you're
afraid of moving forward.
It's all connected Like it'snot so hard to decode it once
you start getting in the habitof doing it, so hard to decode
(53:43):
it once you start getting in thehabit of doing it.
And so, yeah, that's those twothings the anger and the
resentment.
And then this like hiding was sointeresting because I didn't
feel like I was hiding anything,you know, because I felt like a
pretty transparent person, likeI'm not, like I didn't think I
was consciously doing anythinglike wrong or I know it's like
(54:05):
sounds bad doing something wrong, but that's what I felt.
I felt like there's somethingthat I'm doing like wrong or I'm
not getting something.
So then it wasn't until I hadall these seeds planted, like I
had read this book, I hadthought about it but I didn't
know what it was.
And then I went to Mexico andit was a couple of days after a
(54:25):
plant ceremony.
That was my birthday and I hadgotten the message don't plant
anything.
A big gift is like coming yourway and the energy I felt around
my birthday.
It was like very like calm,very quiet and very solitary,
like you're not going to be out,like partying and I mean I
didn't really have anyone to dothat with or it's not normally
(54:49):
how I would celebrate, but stillit was an interesting sort of
clear energy is like keep theday open for yourself.
And I woke up on my birthdayand that's when I the first
memory came back to me in mydreams.
Speaker 1 (55:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (55:05):
And that was the gift .
And I woke up and the memorywas of me being sexually abused
by my pediatrician from birth tolike I assume it was birth.
I mean, my first memory of itis like four, but from zero till
I left 17.
And what I had experienced wassomething I thought was
(55:27):
completely normal until I gotthe memory back.
And then I literally looked upon Google like what is a
pediatrician supposed to checkduring a routine exam, and I
looked it up and I was like,okay, that is definitely not
what happened and I wasdevastated.
I was devastated.
I spent the day.
I mean, from the moment I wokeup, I started feeling like so
(55:50):
much grief.
Speaker 1 (55:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (55:52):
And I reached out to the people who had held the like
, held space for me during theceremony and they said this is
is not uncommon, but they didn'treally know what to do.
I think, because it's somethingI don't know, they just there's
no way you can really fix,there's nothing to fix.
It's sort of just like they'rethere for support and also
(56:12):
encouraged me to reach out toanybody else that I wanted to
for support.
So I just reached out to somefriends that I knew had
experiences with being sexuallyabused as a children and I
couldn't believe that I was theone reaching out about it,
because up until this point inmy life, literally like so many
people, I cannot tell you howmany people had come to me with
(56:33):
their memories after theyremembered their, their own
sexual abuse experiences or theyhad remembered throughout the
whole time and they had nevertold anybody and they just told
I was the first person they told.
That happened to me many timesthroughout my life, way before I
(56:53):
had my memories back and um.
So that was the first big signto me that something like I'm
releasing the energy is startingto move.
This energy is starting to move, this weight is starting to be
lifted and the anger and theresentment is starting to be
validated and seen for what itis, which is rational a rational
(57:17):
, very rational reaction tosomething very violent.
Speaker 1 (57:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (57:23):
And that was just the first memory.
After that I, over the nextfour or five years, I got um
hundreds of memories back umthem essentially getting more
and more closer to home.
The ones that were the hardestto see were the ones that came
last, and it was just just thisprocess, this very long,
grueling process, but that's ifI only look at that.
(57:45):
That thread in my life, right,that part was really long, hard
and grueling, but along thattime I met my husband, I met my
dog, we lived in a coupledifferent countries.
We spent so much time learningin the, in the forest, we
traveled, you know, we had somany magical moments.
So it wasn't like this was mylife, although this was a part
of my life that was so heavy andreally required so much of my
(58:09):
emotional energy and was notreally something I could share
with too many people, especiallyas I got progressively more
intense, which is, I think, whyI had the blessing to be able to
go and sit in the forest and gothrough these ceremonies,
because I think a part of meknew and a part of the world
knew you're going to need thisstrength.
(58:30):
You're going to need thisstrength when you have to.
You know what's the latestthing I did is report my parents
and other family members who'sactually abused me and
trafficked me to to the to theauthorities, which I did that
this past week.
Um, so yeah, it's like part ofyou know.
(58:52):
I told you how the ceremonies,like like in Alice in Wonderland
, prepared me to sing my songand part of that is learning our
truth, learning what we'rereally made of and learning what
we've really gone through, andseeing the truth in the
situations.
Sometimes it's even beyond ourlifetime.
Sometimes it might be seeing thetruth of our family's lineage
(59:13):
or their experiences generationsback, and it's painful, and
it's also seeing the reality ofthe truth of the times we live
in and the things that are goingon now that are all connected
to what I see, that Iexperienced, the violence I
experienced, um, and theseenergies I'm learning to heal
and grieve are not thatdifferent than what the earth
(59:37):
has experienced and in theconquest, you know, in the rape
of the earth throughcolonization, or you know what's
going on right now in so manydifferent areas of the world
where there's just so you know,there's so much violence, and so
I'm hoping that the work thatyou know, you and I and a lot of
(59:59):
us are doing to honor the truthof whatever we, whatever's in
our like scope, right Like this,this is what presented itself
to me as something that neededto be looked at, and how did it
move?
Is just acknowledging it reallyand accepting it, and then
crying about it, screaming aboutit, making art, all the things,
(01:00:20):
all the things.
Yeah writing, painting, dancing,calling friends, asking for
support, all of it Doing thingslike this, you know, sharing my
story and and connecting withpeople who want to talk about
(01:00:42):
some of these things not, maybenot, you know, we don't want to
necessarily focus on the pain,but really acknowledging it and
validating it, I think it's.
It's so important because a lotof people don't feel seen in
their pain or like in theirexperience, you know so.
So, yeah, Thank you forlistening to that and asking
about it thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:01:02):
yeah, I, I completely identify, because it took me a
long time to to recognize thatwhat I experienced in childhood
was also rape.
Took me a while to even rememberthe rape right, and this was by
a cousin of mine.
So I completely, completelyidentify with everything that
you said there, and this is whyit's so important that we have
(01:01:23):
these conversations, because,just like how you and I
repressed the memory or didn'trecognize the abuse for what it
was, there are other people,women and men that has
experienced that and maybe theyhave repressed memories or maybe
, if they do remember, they'reashamed to speak about it.
(01:01:45):
They're afraid the stigma andeverything else that is attached
to that.
People not believe in you,people second-guessing you and
then experiencing thatsecond-hand victimization again,
like there's just so manylevels to it.
So thank you so much forsharing that with me.
I'm so grateful, so gratefulfor you, pooja.
(01:02:06):
This was an amazingconversation and now let's plug
yourself again.
Okay, no problem, tell us wherewe can find you and you know,
your book and anything else thatyou have going on.
Speaker 2 (01:02:19):
Okay.
So the best place is to just goto my website and you'll see
there.
If you want to book a freeconcert with me, you can totally
do that and you can also evenif you just want to connect.
You want to use that time tojust connect and just chat.
I'm a big believer in justorganic connection.
(01:02:39):
So hit me up, you know, don'tbe afraid to take up a spot on
my calendar.
I it's really an honor for mealways to to learn more about
you and connect with you.
And yeah, you'll see my book onthere and there's even a little
recording, like I audio I made,of one of my favorite poems you
could listen to if you want.
So that's really, yeah, I thinkthat's it.
(01:03:03):
And there's a contact, I thinkon the contact me page like
there's an email.
So sometimes people like theydon't want to sign up for
something, but they want towrite, to write me, so you can
use that too.
I'd love to hear from you.
Speaker 1 (01:03:17):
That sounds amazing.
Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (01:03:19):
This was fun from you .
That sounds amazing.
Thank you so much.
This was fun.
Yeah, thank you, it was.
It was a blast.
And yeah, I'm just amazed.
I'm amazed by this, this workyou're doing, and really
inspired too.
So thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (01:03:33):
Thank you.
If you resonated with anythingwe shared in this episode, reach
out and tell us all about it,and check out Pooja's work.
Her links are in the show notesbelow.
As usual, thank you so much foryour love and continuous
support Until next time, thankyou.
Today's guest, Pooja Bakai, is a survivor of stage
four cancer and childhood sexualabuse, and our conversation is
such a reminder of the powercontained in sharing our stories
.
And Pooja's journey is a truetestament to her current work as
an authenticity coach helpingothers along on their own
(00:22):
healing journeys.
Coach helping others along ontheir own healing journeys.
The thing is, when we are inalignment, there is not much
needed to do other than to showup trust, the process and take
action.
I had such a blast talking toPooja, and she writes amazing
(00:49):
poetry too.
All right, let's get into it.
We're talking about just yourwhole journey.
Right, we spoke about thecancer.
We spoke about journey.
Right, we spoke about thecancer.
We spoke about everything thatyou've been through, but I
(01:16):
really wanted you to highlightyou know you being an
authenticity coach right now andthe journey that you took to
get here, what that was like foryou, Like how did it come about
?
I know definitely it came outof the story that you shared
with me, so I'd love for you totouch on that today.
And, yeah, Awesome.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
So my journey to becoming an authenticity coach,
it was a very magical andintuitive journey.
It was a very magical andintuitive journey.
It started with me leaving,making the decision to leave
what was making me unhappy,which was and just not feeling
aligned with my gifts or my path, which was.
(01:57):
At the time I was in a PhDprogram studying education
policy at Harvard.
Studying education policy atHarvard, and although I was knee
deep into the program, I waspretty, pretty far in.
Phd is a long road.
I was, I would say I was twothirds of the way done.
I had finished all mycoursework, a lot of research
(02:19):
and all my exams, so I just hadthe dissertation left.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
And, yeah, after some serious thought, the way I knew
that I wasn't supposed tocontinue was I had created a
research paper an originalresearch paper about how
teachers of color navigateworking in schools and school
policies to best serve theirstudents, and I was supposed to
(02:49):
work from that paper to continue, and I actually couldn't even
bring myself to open the paper.
I couldn't even bring myself toread what I had done.
And that's when I knew thatsomething had shifted with the
(03:10):
journey of the cancer and if Icouldn't open it, there's no way
I was going to find the energyto complete it, and at the time
I didn't have any energy to playwith.
I think we've all been there inour lives at a certain point
where you kind of are on anenergy budget and you have to
prioritize what brings youenergy and what makes you feel
excited or nourished in life,and at the time I had just
(03:36):
noticed that this wasn't it.
So, despite all of the work thatI did and all of the work that
I did to even get there which itwas a dream of mine to go to
Harvard when I was younger and Idid I ended up graduating with
my master's in education policy,and I told my advisors, as much
as I love some of the thingsthat I've been able to do here,
(03:59):
this is not the right path forme right now and I don't know
why, but it's just not.
And they really respected mydecision and they said they'll
support me in whatever else Idecide to do, and so I feel like
I had also a lot of grace inthat space from people that it
mattered to me what feedbackthey gave me, and actually one
of my advisors ended up sendingher daughter to me when I
(04:22):
started coaching and I coachedher daughter.
She's eight years old at thetime, but it just goes to show
you like the reason why did Istart coaching?
I mean, I just was sitting with, so I didn't.
I wasn't in the program and Ihad the space to decide what do
I want to do next?
And when I was in the program Iwas living in Boston.
But after my cancer treatment Isaid, uh, I don't know if we're
(04:46):
allowed to curse on thispodcast.
Probably not oh, okay, I saidfuck it.
I said fuck it.
Um, I gotta, I gotta, go moveout to a sunny place, um, that
I've always dreamed of living in.
Um, I, I love surfing.
I had picked it up during mytime, actually during my cancer
(05:07):
treatment, and I'm such a watergirl, I love the ocean and I
always, always, dreamed ofliving out in California, which
is where I went to college.
But I never went back and Ialways wanted to, and so I moved
out to San Diego and everyonethought I was nuts because I was
not in great physical shape.
I had just done eight months ofchemo and people were just like
(05:29):
, what are you doing?
But I didn't care.
That was one of the firstintuitive decisions I made.
I moved out there, left theprogram and then I had the
spaciousness to feel into whatis it I want to do?
And I had always, always, always, been great at coaching people
and I had five years ofexperience in education and
(05:53):
teaching at the time, and evenmore if I really think about it.
I was an RA and undergrad and Ijust have always been teaching
and counseling and coaching inone capacity or another, even
when I was like eight years oldor seven years old, you know.
(06:13):
So I just had known that thatwas a gift of mine, and my
friends and my community hadalways reflected that back to me
, and I had always been findingways to do that in my jobs,
wherever I was, whatever I wasdoing.
And so, and even in the program, you know, as a teacher, I was
teaching courses, assisting incourses, running facilitating
groups and just doing a lot ofteaching and coaching.
(06:34):
And so I knew I had the skillset to do it and I knew I had
the intuition as well, becauseas coaches, it's not just
structured, a structured planthat makes you effective, but
also just being able to connectwith people and really trust our
own intuition about where to goin a certain session or how to
show up.
And so, yeah, I just had a cometo Jesus moment.
(06:58):
I always say I'm a woman, Ibleed every month.
I always say on, I'm a woman, Ibleed every month, and on my
bleeds.
I really get a lot ofinformation and about what
directions I'm supposed to go, alot of premonitions and things
like that, and I had a bleed inSan Diego and it was clear as
(07:18):
day.
It's like you're going tobecome a life coach.
You're starting this now, sothat's how I started, yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
Oh my gosh, I love that for you.
You know talking about yourmenstruation and how that's kind
of like shows up for you whenit comes to your intuition.
You know speaking about beingan intuitive healer.
How does that now play a rolein the work that you're doing?
Speaker 2 (07:46):
It's amazing that we're even talking about it and
I really would just like toacknowledge that.
You know it's taken me a lot ofwork to get here where I can
speak about the bleed and alsopublicly, like without any shame
, but really as the celebrationof the power that it holds and
how much magic there is in thatspace.
(08:06):
And I would say today it's verysimilar.
I just have more awareness overthat time of my month of what
it means and how much can happenand move energetically during
that time.
And I'll say that for a coupleyears, you know, I have been
(08:27):
coaching since I found in mycoaching business, but the way
that I've coached and where I'velived has changed.
And so for part of that timesince then till now, I was
living in the Amazon rainforestand I was living with different
indigenous communities, toodifferent ones, and the longer I
(08:49):
stayed there, the more Ilearned about this time of the
bleed and how to honor it andthe power that ancient societies
understand that it holds.
In fact, they see it's evenmore powerful than some of the
(09:12):
most powerful plant medicinesand sacred plants that they give
people to create thisconnection with God or the
universe.
They say it's actually morepowerful than these plants.
Women have it.
You know, there's a lot of waysto manage our energy and just
protect our energy during thattime, and you know the way I see
it, it's different for all ofus.
We're, all you know, uniqueindividuals, but it was nice to
(09:35):
go there and understand that thereason that they had some of
these boundaries around thewomen's bleed is not because
they disrespected the woman, butbecause they understood the
power that she holds, especiallyduring during this time, and it
is a time of purge, of release,so I always like to remember
that and honor that too.
So sometimes the purge can makespace for, like, new
(09:59):
information to come in, and so Iexperienced that too, and I
also pay attention to my dreamseven more during this time.
And I'll just say I don't knowif anyone else experiences this,
but I'll just have like randomlike aha moments, like I'll just
be sitting around and then justbe like, oh my gosh, I'm going
(10:21):
to do a retreat, or oh my gosh,I gotta do this, um and I I
think that's just cool.
So I did I did write a poemabout the bleed, if you ever
want to hear it.
Um, I actually have my bookright here, which was not even
planned, but I love it.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
Do you want to share it with us?
Speaker 2 (10:39):
yeah, sure do, please do okay, okay, I know you're a
writer as well, so this isdefinitely meant to be, I'm sure
, your audience.
You have a lot of artisticpeople.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
Oh yeah, let's see if I can find it.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
Oh, here it is, okay, ready?
Yes, all right.
Creatrix Codes.
Our flow is advanced magic.
This ain't no beginner's dance.
Wild love, sorcery, creatinglife, death, transmuting
collective agony, beauty, power,wisdom, compassion.
(11:17):
We are the feminine force,whispering winds, uprooting lava
, sounding thunder, making waves.
This is us.
Feeling is healing, feeling isqueening.
Honor the bleed, rememberingthe gifts of our ancients,
dripping down lineage.
The divine feminine creatrixcodes, the sacred way, the only
(11:41):
way.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
The only way Breathe, rest, protect the sacred
passageway.
The original Creatrix Matrix.
This is our medicine.
That's beautiful.
The Creatrix Matrix Matrix.
I love it.
I love it.
That is so good, pooja.
That's amazing.
Oh, thank you.
Have you like, published thatanywhere?
Speaker 2 (12:09):
Well, it's in this book, right here, nice, yes,
that's your book.
This is it, this?
Speaker 1 (12:15):
is it Amazing For your book, is it just like pure
poetry?
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Yes, it's a poetry collection.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
Nice, I love it.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
Amazing.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
Yeah, yeah, and I'm sure you'll tell us where we'll
find your book later on.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
Sure, sure, sure.
I can do it now too.
So we don't forget now you canjust find it on amazon, simple
as that.
Um, you can also go on mywebsite, and I have a link there
to puja bakaicom.
Yeah, that's perfect and I havea link there to pujabakaicom.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Yes, Perfect yeah, this is the perfect opportunity
to plot.
So, oh man, but tell me youknow cause you were into Amazon
rainforest.
How did you even end up there?
Speaker 2 (13:03):
Like what happened.
It's such a a good question.
It's such a crazy story.
Um, I love that you asked mebecause, um, the mystical part
of me definitely sees life aslike the series of magical
moments I had never watched likeAlice in Wonderland before.
I don't know if you've everseen it.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
Have you seen it?
I love it.
It's my favorite.
It's my favorite the book, themovie, everything.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
Well, it came into my field, or like I was introduced
to it.
More like my husband loves ithe always like is quoting it and
showing me like these YouTubeclips from it but I watched it
in full for the first time, likethis past week, and I was just
like, oh my gosh, all morningtoday I was like I think I'm
Alice.
I think I'm Alice, I mean, Ithink.
(13:53):
Alice in a lot of us rightexactly oh my goodness, exactly
that's what I was thinking.
It's like we are.
We are all out straight andyeah, that's probably why that
movie was um such a hit.
I don't know why, but probablyeveryone feels connected in one
way or another to that sense ofmagic magic, or is able to like
remember it when they see themovie yeah um.
(14:16):
So yeah, I I've been thinkingabout that a lot today and just
being really grateful about themoments that brought me the
magical moments, the series ofmagical moments that brought me
the magical moments, the seriesof magical moments that brought
me to the jungle, because it wasnothing short of a miracle um
it was nothing short of amiracle.
But, yeah, I so with my cancerjourney.
(14:37):
It brought up a lot ofquestions for me um, mostly how,
like, what, what I was cause.
I had a Western medicinebackground.
I actually studied biology andum, like was a scientist in
college and um had planned to goto medical school, but like
felt didn't.
It's not an alignment for me.
Once I actually had to make thedecision, and so there was a
(15:03):
science part of me that thatknew and understood a lot of
things.
Actually, I had done cancerresearch before.
I had studied cancer cells.
Both my parents were doctors.
I had read a lot of theirmedical books about cancer, even
as a child, so I knew a lotabout the science behind cancer
(15:24):
and what was going onscientifically in my body.
But I also had this sense thatthere was more to the story,
that there was just somethingdeeper going on and that if
everything is just energy, thenthere was some energy within me
that was creating this physicalreality.
So I had a lot of prayers thatI spoke into the winds about
(15:50):
finding healing and findingtruth, and I think ultimately,
it's probably that those prayersand that choice that I made
that I wanted to know.
I wanted to go deeper.
I wanted to understand whatreally happened to me at that
time, because it wasn't just mybody that changed, or the
decision of quitting my programand starting my life coaching
(16:13):
business.
It wasn't just that.
There was something much biggergoing on that I could sense,
but I couldn't put my finger onit.
For the life of me.
I, a part of me, like thought Iwas going a little crazy
because I'm just like what?
Like nothing feels the sameNothing, um.
So I went out to San Diego andI think probably that was an
(16:35):
intuitive decision.
But basically once I went thereI started meeting people, one
after the next.
That would sort of lead me tothese different healing
modalities.
And it was so interestingbecause I had never really
experienced a lot of these likehealing modalities before, or
spiritual, a way of looking, aspiritual lens on the world, an
(16:56):
emotional lens.
And one of those series, one ofthose you know parts in the
long chain, led me to this womanwho was serving for, you know,
in the San Diego area there area lot of like more European like
(17:17):
lineage practitioners and I hadat the time was looking for a
woman of color to just learnwith and learn from, and
(17:39):
everything I was learning I wasalso using in my coaching
practice.
So it was sort of a part of mytraining as well, and I didn't
know that at the time, but Ilearned that over time and so,
yeah, I found this ceremony,this woman.
Someone recommended me to go toher and I agreed and I learned
very quickly that the blessedtea also had some psychedelic
(18:00):
plants inside, yes, and so shewas like you know, do you still
want to do it?
Not because I didn't know thatwhen I signed up.
And she's like how do you feelabout it?
And I said I feel fine.
I said I trusted everythingthat brought me to this point.
I've really relied solely ontrust for the last year,
(18:22):
trusting the guidance, and sinceI'm here and I feel called to
sit in this experience, let's gofor it.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
And I only bring that up because I think the plant
spirits had also a lot to dowith me ending up in the Amazon
jungle, because over there theywork a lot with sacred plants.
And so I brought that upbecause, yeah, after I started
working with the plants, a lotof things started to change in
my life a lot faster.
(18:50):
I started feeling betterphysically very quickly.
Um, I started becoming more andmore sensitive and intuitive.
I started understanding more,like how to manage my
sensitivities and also how totrust and hear all the different
messages and guidances.
(19:11):
And, yeah, very soon after thatI got like a guidance to go to
Mexico.
Like I kept having visions ofthese jungles.
I had no idea about the Amazonrainforest at that point, but I
a friend of mine actually waslike, oh, you should just come
and stay at our place in Mexicofor a while and I was like, okay
(19:35):
, I mean, why stop now?
Right, why stop now?
I love it.
I was living in a small town onthe West Coast called Sayulita.
It's probably a lot more peoplehave heard of it now.
(20:16):
It's not an unpopular place togo.
It's a beach town, also greatsurf, but amazing culture,
really kind people and a lot ofdifferent kinds of people kind
of find their way there fordifferent reasons, and so I got
to live in their amazing spacein the jungle, which was nice,
and I continued doing mycoaching work and I wanted to
continue honestly exploring myrelationship with these plants,
(20:36):
because they had already helpedme heal so much and I knew there
was more.
And when we talk about theother side of fear, I'm not
going to lie it's the last thingI wanted to do.
My friends were like, when Igot there I think I saw them for
like one day before they headedout and we had a conversation
and they looked at me and theysaid, well, what do you think
(20:57):
you're going to focus on orwhat's calling you right now?
Right now.
And I spent the entire timetalking about how I had worked
with these plant medicines andthey had really, like, opened up
a lot for me, but also thefurther exploration of them
really terrified me, and so Ijust talked about how scared I
was of doing of following thatpath even longer.
(21:19):
And they said, well, it soundslike you need to follow your
fear and you need to askyourself why are you so scared
of this thing and go for it andI was like, oh, here we go.
But yeah, so in Mexico I hadthe opportunity a few times to
explore a little bit more andwhat it really.
(21:42):
It had amazing results for me,which I'm happy to share later
on if it comes up.
And then, yes, the way I like toshare this story because it is
100% true and so crazy is oneday I woke up and I would often
take these walks along the beachand I walked and there's a
little jungle path that you cango through to get to a more
secluded beach and there's alittle jungle path that you can
(22:02):
go through to get to a moresecluded beach.
So I was walking like alongthis jungle path and it's so
beautiful and mystical.
Even in there there's just somereally giant trees and a lot of
green and it's quiet.
And so, just walking along andthere's an opening and that's
where you can sit by the waterand there was a tree by the
(22:23):
water and I was just sitting bythe tree and like reading this
book and, um, I think the bookwas actually like about
synchronicities.
Now that I remember it was likeone of the book Chopra's books.
I think it was either that orlike a book with quotes in it,
um, that were like about life.
I can't remember which one ofthose books it was, but it was
(22:44):
one of those two, I know forsure.
And I was reading it and then Ijust started to talk to the tree
, like in my head.
I wasn't talking out loud, Iwas talking to my head and I
just asked the tree, like what's, you know what's what's next
for me?
Like what, where is this going?
You know what's what's next forme?
(23:06):
Like what, where is this going?
And it said to me you, you gotto go to the Amazon rainforest.
And that's when, like, thisconversation stopped being like
a conversation in the head, likeI just started bawling my eyes
out.
I was crying, like I washuddled over myself in the sand,
like crying my eyes out.
And I remember I had my phone onme and I sent a text message to
(23:31):
one of my friends, like live,like I'd love those voice notes.
So I sent like a voice note andI was just like crying and I
was like I know this soundscrazy, but this is the kind of
friend I could tell these thingsto.
I said, you know, this treejust told me this and I, I um, I
(23:53):
really feel it and I don'tunderstand it, but I feel it.
And then I told another couplefriends the next day and then
within the next day somebody hadinvited me to Ecuador, ecuador,
and to their place.
They had some land there andthey knew some people who worked
in the jungle with someindigenous communities and so,
yeah, it's just okay, great.
(24:14):
I said like there's connectionissues for a second.
So yeah, in just like two days,there was a clear path for
exploring how to get.
There was no, I knew thiswasn't going to be something
like.
I looked on google and found,like found like a viaje, a trip,
and was just like, oh yeah, letme go on this tour.
(24:37):
Like it wasn't like that, um,but yeah, I just, and then and
then, after I had thatconversation, I I went back to
the States, to San Diego, Igathered my self and my things
and I felt into it for a coupleweeks.
Any time I get like a bigdecision like that, I like to
just take a moment, be like okay, like let's just take some time
(24:58):
before you make a life alteringdecision to buy a one way
ticket to another country.
And so then I just like sharedit with some people.
I said, oh, that sounds great,you'll be fine.
You know, you speak someSpanish, you'll be fine.
So I went, and I went alone andI spent a couple of weeks in
the capital city where I landed,just to get my bearings and
(25:21):
adjust to the land and just thepeople, everything.
It's a big, it's a bigadjustment.
And, um, yeah, and then a coupleof weeks later, I was on the
land of my friends and we hadone ceremony there, a fire like
ceremony, um, like a Temezgalceremony, and that ceremony is
(25:42):
when I met my now husband andalso when I came out of that
Temezcal, the guy who wasrunning it said to me hey, we're
going to the jungle next week.
You want to come?
And I was like, oh my God, it'shappening, it's really
(26:03):
happening, it's really fuckinghappening.
I'm like this is wild, like youliterally cannot make this up.
I know, so that's how it started.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
That's how it started .
That's amazing.
What a journey, crazy.
Oh, my goodness.
That's what you call trust andfaith.
Thank you, I agree.
Oh, you know thinking about allof that because, literally, you
allowed yourself to just be ledlike through the whole thing.
(26:38):
So, with all of the fears andall of the uncertainties, what
is your relationship with fearright now?
Speaker 2 (26:47):
Honestly fear right now is like a motivator for me.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
That's good, yeah, it's like oh, you feel scared
about this.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
Okay, let's do it.
It's like oh, you feel scaredabout this.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
Okay, let's do it.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
Oh my gosh, it's basically like that, yeah, I
mean, and it doesn't have to belike an immediate thing, but
it's, you know, it's like, oh,you're afraid to become a mom.
Let's like make a baby tonight.
It's not always like that quick, but that's my mindset.
That's my mindset.
It's like fear is pointing youin the right direction.
(27:25):
Um, it's, it's a friend, andit's just like let's walk
together, let's go for a walk.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
Yeah, you know, I love that.
That's a good perception shift,you know, because like going
through the cancer, walking awayfrom your PhD program ending up
in.
Amazon like meeting yourhusband, girl, I know, I know.
(27:51):
Oh my goodness, Talking to thetree.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
I don't think the tree knew at the time like the
tree's about to get famous, likepeople are about to hear about
this tree the trees.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
I hope the tree is still there.
I'm pretty sure the tree isstill there.
One thing about trees is thatthey tend to outlast mankind,
true true, we're still there.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
I, I really hope so.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
Yeah, that is amazing .
You know, during your processof working with plants, do you
want to talk about any specificplant medicine that you've
worked with, or maybe any otherbeings that you've communicated
with during the process and howthat was like for you?
Speaker 2 (28:41):
Wow.
Well, thanks for being willingto even talk about this realm.
I know it's something that'sbecoming more and more
mainstream and at least in theUS and some other countries, and
I also think I will say, beforeI even talk about it, it's like
one message I always like toremember for myself.
(29:04):
That I've learned through myown experiences working with
plant medicine in differentcommunities and different types
of facilitators is just toalways use your discernment and
always be open to learning whatthe plants themselves can show
you and teach you, and trustingyourself in your relationship to
(29:27):
that plant and building thatrelationship just like you would
like, we're saying, any friendor any energy, even the energy
of fear, because I can say,definitely, every time that I
worked with it, it's a purespirit, it's like a loving
(30:08):
spirit.
So, when it comes to the plantsthemselves, I think for me I
always felt something verycurious.
I was always very curious aboutwhat they had to share, because
we're humans and, even thoughwe have some similarities with
plants, we have a differentconsciousness than plants, and
(30:31):
so I always wondered they'vebeen sharing?
They've been here, like yousaid, much longer than us, and
so what is their perspective ortheir teachings on what can help
us be in that vibration of love, you know, mostly in balance
and harmony that nature and theearth has with itself.
And so, yeah, just trustingthat vibration and those
(30:57):
teachings helped me a lotbecause, yeah, that's what I'll
say they're basically plantsthat, um, different communities
(31:26):
have used culturally, um, assacred plants because they've
developed a relationship withthis plant over centuries, um,
and they've preserved thatculture.
And I'll say for my culture inIndia, I believe that we also
have used like morehallucinogenic or psychedelic
plants a long time ago that weuse for healing and curing
(31:50):
different ailments andeverything and balance and
introspection and everything.
And so I think, like one commonplant that I will say between
(32:19):
India and the communities that Iwas learning with in the Amazon
is tobacco and it's notsomething people normally think
of as a medicine because in oursociety now it's been really our
relationship with plants ingeneral has really changed.
Plants in general has reallychanged.
(32:39):
But yeah, tobacco is one of,they say, the original plants,
like the grandfather plant, andit was interesting to me how we
have that history of respectingin ancient times.
You know now it's these plantscan be abused or not used in a
way that will bring peoplehealing necessarily.
(32:59):
I don't know if that's the case, maybe they still are bringing
healing in a way.
Speaker 1 (33:04):
We just can't see it, I guess it's the intention
behind the use right yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
Yeah, yeah, and I love that too.
Yeah, that's, that's, that'sreally big, but yeah, so I would
just say they're just plantsthat have been used in prayer or
in ceremony.
And I think another cool thingthat I'll also share about the
plants is something I, like wewere, I knew about like eating
(33:31):
some of these plants.
I knew about praying with themwithout consuming them, just
holding them or praying withthem, offerings, things like
that, but I had never reallylearned how to use them in plant
baths or anything like that,like in terms of like, yeah,
just like a bath.
(33:52):
But over there we did a lot ofthat as well.
So it was not just working withthem in ceremonies, but
day-to-day, um, or week-to-week,uh, working them in plant baths
.
And it's the same thing, likeyou said, like the intention and
and um.
I also think that you know, themore and more I work with these
(34:15):
plants and maybe others havethis experience too um, it's, it
feels more and more like, um,like a remembrance, like we
actually, we already know, apart of us maybe already knows
how to communicate with theseplants and a part of us like,
let's say, we're on our moon orsomething and we're feeling like
(34:36):
a little like out of balance ormaybe tired or cranky or
something, or have cramps.
I wonder what would happen if wejust asked ourselves, or spirit
, or something, and like what,what, what plants should I?
I want to make a tea orsomething, or take a plant bath,
(34:57):
what plants should I use?
And I'm curious, like whatplants would come to you or to
me, because I think sometimes wealready know, like what we, um,
what our bodies like need, orwhat our spirits need, um, and
so that's also another nicething about it.
It's like it doesn't have tojust be certain kinds of plants.
(35:18):
Everything has its place.
Everything has its place andits purpose, and I always like
to imagine the earth.
I always like to imagine thatit has given everything that we
need for our healing.
So everything we need for ourhealing is already here on the
earth with us.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
Yeah, and I love that you just mentioned that,
because currently, as as we'respeaking, I'm actually bleeding
and I actually did something ofthe sort like, okay, I'm feeling
this discomfort.
What can I use, like, what willbe best for me right now?
I've been using turmeric forthe past few days, wow, yeah.
(35:58):
I've been using turmeric forthe past few days, wow, yeah, so
, and it's been so good, likeeverything has been calm, nice
since then.
I've been cool.
So it's funny that you justmentioned that.
I'm just like, yeah, that wasjust me a couple of days ago.
Speaker 2 (36:13):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
I'm feeling some type of way Like what can I use?
And it's just like turmeric,some ginger, like it was good,
it was really really good, sovery helpful.
And yeah, plant baths.
I love that you mentioned thatplant baths are the real deal.
Like they're so good andthey're so helpful for all sorts
(36:36):
of things for real.
Yeah, cleansing or um, after agiven birth, like there's just
so many ways they can use it, orjust like for general
relaxation, like there's so manypurposes, so many ways that you
(36:56):
could use um plant baths, sothat's really cool.
I love to know, though, likeyou know, you haven't worked
with plants for some time, youknow, haven't worked with
different plants what would yousay that you have learned so far
, what were one of the biggestlessons that you've learned from
(37:18):
working with plants?
Whether it be something aboutyourself or something about your
journey or life, you know,whatever it may be, what stands
out to you that you've learnedso far?
Speaker 2 (37:31):
Great question and offline I would love to talk
about to hear how you use theplant baths, because it's been
like a transition going from aplate like in the jungle, where
you can collect the plantsoutside, cook them over a fire
(37:52):
and water and then go to theriver and bathe with them,
versus here, and so I would loveto hear it too, just to also
continue sharing with people andpracticing those things here.
So to answer your question,okay, thank you.
(38:13):
To answer your question abouttakeaways One of the biggest
things that I will circle backto this idea of remembrance that
I said like we're likeremembering something or maybe
there's something we alreadyknow.
So working with a plantmedicine first of all, really
(38:38):
helped me to remember somethings that I knew but I had
suppressed, about my ownchildhood trauma, and while
these memories actually didn'tsurface in the ceremonies
themselves, I think the plantsknew that if they surface in the
ceremonies, for whatever reason, I might not trust it fully, so
(39:05):
the memories actually came backto me outside of ceremony, but
I really believe it was theplants that helped open me up
and that energy of facing myfears and the energy of
connecting with and trusting theprocess and breathing and
learning how to.
(39:26):
It was like ceremony would giveme the tools to face these
things in my life.
Like learning how to managemyself emotionally when you're
feeling in your body so chargedup on working with the plant
medicine because so much, somany different hormones in your
body are like being released andyou know it's described as like
(39:47):
being near death and it's itcan be so intense.
Manage myself in those spaces.
It gave me a lot of confidence,unknowingly, like unconsciously
(40:07):
, out in real life, to gothrough intense things and make
my way through them with grace,basically, and without like
disrupting everything around meand burning it all down or
having some sort of like crazy.
Like not doesn't mean you know,you don't have a panic attack
or you don't feel sad, nothinglike that, but I mean like
really, while being able tostill walk my path, while still
(40:29):
being able to live my life and,um, yeah, and just be me.
Uh, so, yeah, it just and youknow that reminds me of Alison
Wonderland, because she likewent through that whole ceremony
and came out of it with likethe confidence to like sing her
song, yeah, so it's like that.
(40:49):
It gave me the confidence andthe trust in myself and the
belief in myself to sing my song, you know.
Speaker 1 (40:58):
That's beautiful.
Yeah, that's really beautiful,puja.
And it's true like sometimesthe insight that we gain from
plant medicine happens after thefact.
I think I went through the samething recently with cacao and,
um, I went in with the tensionof seeking clarity and ceremony
(41:20):
was lovely, was so nice, andthen after that, I think by the
first week going into the secondweek, after that, so much
information started coming to meand you know, just like how we
were saying earlier, like whenyou're just sitting there and
things just occur to you and I'mjust like you know, like all
(41:44):
this information suddenly comesto you and you're like, wow,
right, it was mind blowing.
And I think what it taught me isthe importance of trusting my
intuition, the importance ofjust honoring that connection,
like staying connected to myselfand allowing my intuition to
(42:06):
lead me, because a lot of thethings that I needed clarity
about were the things that I wasstruggling with, I was
resisting, I was fighting withwhen I really didn't need to
this entire time, because thewhole time the answers were
always within me.
And the cacao showed me that.
And just by sitting, you know,I remember I was sitting on this
(42:31):
same couch, you know, like aweek after the ceremony and all
the answers were just there andI'm just like, oh my God, like
how did I know?
How did I not know?
But then I recognized that Iknew the entire time, right, but
there was just this cloud andthe shadow and I just couldn't
(42:54):
see through it, right?
Speaker 2 (42:55):
Yeah exactly.
Speaker 1 (42:57):
Yeah, it taught me so much.
So it's really good of yousaying that sometimes the
answers might not come in thatparticular session of working
with the plant, but the plantcontinues to work with you even
after the fact.
It stays with you.
The spirit of the plant doesstay with you, you, and it
(43:20):
continues to work with you evenafter the ceremony.
So it's very, very good thatyou mentioned that.
Speaker 2 (43:28):
Thank you so much for sharing your story and your
specific example with cacao.
It's really nice to hear yourown experience too, because
definitely talking about theseplant medicines can also feel
like a vulnerable.
We're talking about a lot of,you know, unique topics today,
and it's nice.
Speaker 1 (43:47):
I think a lot on the podcast.
We did a lot on the podcastyeah, I figured, I figured there
will be more, just wait.
Yeah, there will be futureepisodes.
Like you know, sometimes Iremember when I first started a
podcast and I know a lot of thethings that I talk about a lot
of people around me don't talkabout, and I'm just like people
might look at me like this girlis not okay.
(44:10):
I'm just like I don't care.
I enjoy talking about this andI will.
I shall.
Um, yeah, you can't shut me upbeauty beauteous.
Yeah, it's gonna be spokenabout, um, whether you agree or
not.
Um, yeah, on the podcast we wetalk about a lot of things that
(44:32):
are out there, right, um, thatsome people may consider like
it's a bit woo, you know.
So yeah, and that's okay, yeah.
Yeah, I do me, you do you what?
Speaker 2 (44:49):
Well, it's good.
It's good not to hide much,because the thing about the
things that people don't want totalk about or that maybe aren't
the norm to talk about, is thatit's not like they're not
happening or that exactly youknow, like our, like the
menstruation, or even plantmedicine, or like people how
(45:14):
cacao is probably in mostgrocery stores now, turmeric
same thing, um, tobacco can befound everywhere.
Speaker 1 (45:25):
So we either talk about it or yeah intention and
perception, and I've had peopleshare, like, very vulnerable
stories as well, you know, and Imean that's what it's all about
, like we're having a genuineauthentic connection and we're
sharing something heart to heart, and maybe if we had more
(45:46):
conversations like this, maybethe world will look a little bit
different, you know what I mean?
Or a lot different, right?
And that's why podcasts likethis are really important, so
that we can have theseconversations, because this is
life, this is real life, right?
Whether you want to talk aboutit or not, it's happening.
Speaker 2 (46:06):
True, true.
Speaker 1 (46:07):
Yeah, but thank you so much.
Like you know, I've I'm reallyenjoying this conversation, you
know.
I just wanted to dial it backto one thing about the cancer
that you went through.
I know you mentioned yourchildhood trauma you don't have
to get into it but I wanted youto talk about when you recognize
(46:30):
where your cancer come from andhow that manifested physically
for you, because we spoke aboutthe energy the last time we
spoke about the energy, you knowwe spoke about the last time we
spoke about stuck energy in thebody, the stagnant energy or
things that were like, I guess,things that you said that you
forgot, right, or?
(46:51):
the things that we might evendisassociate from and and stuff
like that.
So I want you to talk a bitabout how you recognize why the
cancer manifested for you andthen kind of like how you began
to work through that and beginto move some of that energy out.
Speaker 2 (47:12):
Thank you for asking this question and for trusting
like also my experience with howI saw it.
Like also my experience withhow I saw it, um.
So, yeah, you know, one thingthat's interesting that I will
say first is cancer and the typeof cancer and, like the stage
(47:33):
that I had.
It was like quite strong uh ofa.
It's a quite strong diagnosisand, um, I hope that by me
sharing about my experience withhealing this, I can really, if
anybody listening is, havinganything with their body, but
especially the people that arehaving something really strong
like um, maybe like a cancerthat for themselves or something
(47:56):
else, like a, like a bigdiagnosis that in society
sometimes is viewed as like, ohmy god, like you're gonna die,
like, um, something like this.
It it's um, hopefully, yeah, itjust gives some hope and hope in
context that, um and I say thatbecause the way that I got, the
way that I healed and work withthese energies and moving these
(48:18):
energies it it took.
It took a long time in, or likein our linear time uh, meaning
I was diagnosed in 2019, thecancer itself went away quickly,
um, that year, but the physicaleffect, the physical
physicality of my body, remainedworse than actually.
(48:41):
Before I was diagnosed.
There was no cancer, but mybody was clearly in need of
something in need of myattention and it did not.
It did not let go and say, oh,cancer's done, I'm good to go,
go ahead, do whatever you want,no way.
That's actually what led me toworking with the plant medicine,
because I literally could noteven go on walks, I could not go
(49:04):
on runs.
I had so many differentsymptoms that were I just was
going nuts Like it was just sohard.
So that's what motivated me tokeep looking and keep working
with it and keep askingquestions and not giving up.
And the first message that Igot so it came like in steps and
(49:26):
waves and, I do believe, likethe universe gave me what I
could handle at the time.
So in the beginning theuniverse did not tell me oh
Pooja, you have 30 years ofrepressed, 29 years of repressed
memories.
Here they are, good luck.
It did not work like that atall.
It was first things first.
(49:46):
They said the message that Igot, or the intuition I had, was
you got to leave the program,you're not on the right path,
this isn't for you right now.
There's nothing wrong with thispath, it's just not not for you
.
So you need to go in adifferent direction.
You need to stop doing whatyou're doing.
So I did do that and I believethat's actually why the cancer
(50:07):
went away.
But other people might havetheir opinions about why it went
away, but that's what I felt.
It was a path to redirection.
And I needed a seriousredirection because I wouldn't
listen if my body had not beenlike the happiest camper before
that.
But I wouldn't, I wouldn't havequit, I just wouldn't have.
(50:30):
I was too stuck in that, inthat way of being.
So it sort of needed to besomething big, and I joke about
that with myself because it'slike I felt like, oh, and I joke
about that with myself becauseit's like I felt like, oh, god
(50:51):
knows me like need something big, something to be like, yeah,
wake up, wake up.
So that was the first messagewas you know?
And?
And then, and then it wasn'tuntil I was in Mexico.
Well, and I'll say I don't knowif you've heard of Louise Hay
or if that's something thatmaybe listeners are familiar
with, but she's basically who'sdone a lot of work around
(51:13):
correlating physical dis-easewith like a story that's in our
bodies or an energy that's inour bodies.
And she has like a just a chart,a very simple chart of like a
(51:35):
host of a whole list, like amedical dictionary, but then
instead of medical terminologyit just says like built up anger
or indecision, stuff like that.
And at some point I used tolike live and breathe with that
book, but thankfully I haven'thad to use it in some years now.
But you know, I used to lookinto it a lot and I'm sure I
(51:58):
looked up cancer at one pointand it felt to me just
intuitively like the cancer wasa lot of built up resentment and
anger and hatred turned inwards, because if it was turned
outwards I would have been sortof maybe it's both, but it
(52:19):
really felt like it was stuck,like it wasn't turned outwards
because there was no expressionof it.
It was just sitting in thereand about to explode inwardly
and I actually I don't know whatit says in Louise Hay's book.
It's called Heal the Body orsomething.
I don't know what it is cancer,what it is cancer on there.
(52:39):
Um, but there was another onethat was acne that I used to
look up a lot because I hadreally really bad acne since I
was probably around 11 years oldand, yeah, and it never went
away in adulthood and it wasreally really like like cystic
acne and I would pray about thisbecause it was really hard and
(53:00):
it made me feel really left outin the sense of, yeah, I felt
like I was eating all the rightthings and taking care of my
body and yet it just keptshowing up.
Nothing that I did worked overthese 20 years.
And in her book I rememberseeing it's like dislike of self
hiding from the world, like apart of you.
(53:20):
It's like you're sort ofputting on this mask almost
because you don't want to showyour true face.
And a lot of these body imagesare also very like metaphorical,
like if you have a problem inyour foot, it's because you're
afraid of moving forward.
It's all connected Like it'snot so hard to decode it once
you start getting in the habitof doing it, so hard to decode
(53:43):
it once you start getting in thehabit of doing it.
And so, yeah, that's those twothings the anger and the
resentment.
And then this like hiding was sointeresting because I didn't
feel like I was hiding anything,you know, because I felt like a
pretty transparent person, likeI'm not, like I didn't think I
was consciously doing anythinglike wrong or I know it's like
(54:05):
sounds bad doing something wrong, but that's what I felt.
I felt like there's somethingthat I'm doing like wrong or I'm
not getting something.
So then it wasn't until I hadall these seeds planted, like I
had read this book, I hadthought about it but I didn't
know what it was.
And then I went to Mexico andit was a couple of days after a
(54:25):
plant ceremony.
That was my birthday and I hadgotten the message don't plant
anything.
A big gift is like coming yourway and the energy I felt around
my birthday.
It was like very like calm,very quiet and very solitary,
like you're not going to be out,like partying and I mean I
didn't really have anyone to dothat with or it's not normally
(54:49):
how I would celebrate, but stillit was an interesting sort of
clear energy is like keep theday open for yourself.
And I woke up on my birthdayand that's when I the first
memory came back to me in mydreams.
Speaker 1 (55:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (55:05):
And that was the gift .
And I woke up and the memorywas of me being sexually abused
by my pediatrician from birth tolike I assume it was birth.
I mean, my first memory of itis like four, but from zero till
I left 17.
And what I had experienced wassomething I thought was
(55:27):
completely normal until I gotthe memory back.
And then I literally looked upon Google like what is a
pediatrician supposed to checkduring a routine exam, and I
looked it up and I was like,okay, that is definitely not
what happened and I wasdevastated.
I was devastated.
I spent the day.
I mean, from the moment I wokeup, I started feeling like so
(55:50):
much grief.
Speaker 1 (55:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (55:52):
And I reached out to the people who had held the like
, held space for me during theceremony and they said this is
is not uncommon, but they didn'treally know what to do.
I think, because it's somethingI don't know, they just there's
no way you can really fix,there's nothing to fix.
It's sort of just like they'rethere for support and also
(56:12):
encouraged me to reach out toanybody else that I wanted to
for support.
So I just reached out to somefriends that I knew had
experiences with being sexuallyabused as a children and I
couldn't believe that I was theone reaching out about it,
because up until this point inmy life, literally like so many
people, I cannot tell you howmany people had come to me with
(56:33):
their memories after theyremembered their, their own
sexual abuse experiences or theyhad remembered throughout the
whole time and they had nevertold anybody and they just told
I was the first person they told.
That happened to me many timesthroughout my life, way before I
(56:53):
had my memories back and um.
So that was the first big signto me that something like I'm
releasing the energy is startingto move.
This energy is starting to move, this weight is starting to be
lifted and the anger and theresentment is starting to be
validated and seen for what itis, which is rational a rational
(57:17):
, very rational reaction tosomething very violent.
Speaker 1 (57:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (57:23):
And that was just the first memory.
After that I, over the nextfour or five years, I got um
hundreds of memories back umthem essentially getting more
and more closer to home.
The ones that were the hardestto see were the ones that came
last, and it was just just thisprocess, this very long,
grueling process, but that's ifI only look at that.
(57:45):
That thread in my life, right,that part was really long, hard
and grueling, but along thattime I met my husband, I met my
dog, we lived in a coupledifferent countries.
We spent so much time learningin the, in the forest, we
traveled, you know, we had somany magical moments.
So it wasn't like this was mylife, although this was a part
of my life that was so heavy andreally required so much of my
(58:09):
emotional energy and was notreally something I could share
with too many people, especiallyas I got progressively more
intense, which is, I think, whyI had the blessing to be able to
go and sit in the forest and gothrough these ceremonies,
because I think a part of meknew and a part of the world
knew you're going to need thisstrength.
(58:30):
You're going to need thisstrength when you have to.
You know what's the latestthing I did is report my parents
and other family members who'sactually abused me and
trafficked me to to the to theauthorities, which I did that
this past week.
Um, so yeah, it's like part ofyou know.
(58:52):
I told you how the ceremonies,like like in Alice in Wonderland
, prepared me to sing my songand part of that is learning our
truth, learning what we'rereally made of and learning what
we've really gone through, andseeing the truth in the
situations.
Sometimes it's even beyond ourlifetime.
Sometimes it might be seeing thetruth of our family's lineage
(59:13):
or their experiences generationsback, and it's painful, and
it's also seeing the reality ofthe truth of the times we live
in and the things that are goingon now that are all connected
to what I see, that Iexperienced, the violence I
experienced, um, and theseenergies I'm learning to heal
and grieve are not thatdifferent than what the earth
(59:37):
has experienced and in theconquest, you know, in the rape
of the earth throughcolonization, or you know what's
going on right now in so manydifferent areas of the world
where there's just so you know,there's so much violence, and so
I'm hoping that the work thatyou know, you and I and a lot of
(59:59):
us are doing to honor the truthof whatever we, whatever's in
our like scope, right Like this,this is what presented itself
to me as something that neededto be looked at, and how did it
move?
Is just acknowledging it reallyand accepting it, and then
crying about it, screaming aboutit, making art, all the things,
(01:00:20):
all the things.
Yeah writing, painting, dancing,calling friends, asking for
support, all of it Doing thingslike this, you know, sharing my
story and and connecting withpeople who want to talk about
(01:00:42):
some of these things not, maybenot, you know, we don't want to
necessarily focus on the pain,but really acknowledging it and
validating it, I think it's.
It's so important because a lotof people don't feel seen in
their pain or like in theirexperience, you know so.
So, yeah, Thank you forlistening to that and asking
about it thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:01:02):
yeah, I, I completely identify, because it took me a
long time to to recognize thatwhat I experienced in childhood
was also rape.
Took me a while to even rememberthe rape right, and this was by
a cousin of mine.
So I completely, completelyidentify with everything that
you said there, and this is whyit's so important that we have
(01:01:23):
these conversations, because,just like how you and I
repressed the memory or didn'trecognize the abuse for what it
was, there are other people,women and men that has
experienced that and maybe theyhave repressed memories or maybe
, if they do remember, they'reashamed to speak about it.
(01:01:45):
They're afraid the stigma andeverything else that is attached
to that.
People not believe in you,people second-guessing you and
then experiencing thatsecond-hand victimization again,
like there's just so manylevels to it.
So thank you so much forsharing that with me.
I'm so grateful, so gratefulfor you, pooja.
(01:02:06):
This was an amazingconversation and now let's plug
yourself again.
Okay, no problem, tell us wherewe can find you and you know,
your book and anything else thatyou have going on.
Speaker 2 (01:02:19):
Okay.
So the best place is to just goto my website and you'll see
there.
If you want to book a freeconcert with me, you can totally
do that and you can also evenif you just want to connect.
You want to use that time tojust connect and just chat.
I'm a big believer in justorganic connection.
(01:02:39):
So hit me up, you know, don'tbe afraid to take up a spot on
my calendar.
I it's really an honor for mealways to to learn more about
you and connect with you.
And yeah, you'll see my book onthere and there's even a little
recording, like I audio I made,of one of my favorite poems you
could listen to if you want.
So that's really, yeah, I thinkthat's it.
(01:03:03):
And there's a contact, I thinkon the contact me page like
there's an email.
So sometimes people like theydon't want to sign up for
something, but they want towrite, to write me, so you can
use that too.
I'd love to hear from you.
Speaker 1 (01:03:17):
That sounds amazing.
Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (01:03:19):
This was fun from you .
That sounds amazing.
Thank you so much.
This was fun.
Yeah, thank you, it was.
It was a blast.
And yeah, I'm just amazed.
I'm amazed by this, this workyou're doing, and really
inspired too.
So thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (01:03:33):
Thank you.
If you resonated with anythingwe shared in this episode, reach
out and tell us all about it,and check out Pooja's work.
Her links are in the show notesbelow.
As usual, thank you so much foryour love and continuous
support Until next time, thankyou.
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