May 13, 2024 • 57 mins
Join me and trauma coach Tara Brown as we embark on a journey of healing that transcends typical self-help rhetoric. Our conversation weaves through the intimate process of trauma recovery, highlighting the crucial role of our entire nervous system alongside our mindset. Tara shares the dance of the four pillars of healing—physical, emotional, mental, and spiritual—and we discuss how neglecting any single one can disrupt our path to wellness. Our heart-to-heart is a testament to the personal nature of healing, inviting you to tune into your individual needs and embrace a holistic approach to overcoming trauma.
Ever wondered how your body reacts under stress or why some scents can calm your frayed nerves? With Tara's wisdom, we delve into the human nervous system and its responses to trauma, drawing parallels between our reactions and those of animals in the wild. We tug at the threads of the fight, flight, freeze, and fawn responses, unraveling their connection to our biology and the figure-eight configuration of the nervous system. Personal stories enrich the conversation, providing real-life examples of how these responses manifest and offering strategies for grounding and emotional regulation to quell the storm within.
Prepare to be moved—literally—as we discuss the liberating potential of physical movement and its role in emotional healing. I recount an episode of anger diffused by a late-night walk, and we celebrate the power of nature and intentional movement in transforming emotional turmoil. The chapter on healing generational trauma with essential oils paints a vivid picture of how personal growth can reverberate through our lineage, reshaping relationships with our loved ones. By the end of our chat, you'll be equipped with self-care strategies to nourish your nervous system and be imbued with a sense of hope and excitement for your healing journey.
If you would like to book a free coaching call click on this link to schedule a time:
https://calendly.com/stephaniewheeldonbetrayaltraumacoaching/privateclient
Get your free "Creating and Clarifying Boundaries" PDF here!
https://www.erinandersonthetraumacoach.com/ClarifyandCreateBoundaries
Don't forget! You can come join us at:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/theothersideofthestruggle
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey everyone, welcome back to another episode of the
Other Side of the Struggle Guys.
I'm so excited for today'sepisode and today's podcast
guest.
I have been working a littlebit with Tara Brown for probably
a couple of years now and Ireally got the opportunity to
connect with her through theRejuvenate you program.
(00:23):
Tara Brown is a betrayal traumacoach or basically just a
trauma coach, because that iswhat we are right but she's
APSATS trained, she's thecertification director through
Shaley Hope and she's justfreaking awesome.
She knows so much.
She's just amazing and Iabsolutely have loved chatting
(00:48):
with her and getting to know herand, you know, sharing in her
wisdom and her goodness, and soI'm just excited to share Tara
with you guys today, my audience, because I think you're going
to love her just as much as me.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Thank you, I'm excited to talk to you, yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Yeah Well, I'm excited about this too, and
especially this topic, becauseyou know, this is one that I've
been diving more into lately.
You know, healing the nervoussystem, because this is such a
big thing when it comes tohealing trauma.
Right, it totally is, and I'vecome across clients multiple
(01:28):
times where I can do all themindset work I can with them,
but it's not sticking becausetheir nervous system is not on
board.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
And yeah, and so it's like really a major thing that
we need to address in healingany type of trauma, and so I
really felt like this isdefinitely something we need to
put on the podcast.
A really strong chair has fourstrong legs right.
(02:03):
So we have our physical, whichincludes, you know, getting
enough sleep and and which ishard when you're in trauma and
eating the right things anddrinking water, just plain.
You know, easy stuff, but it'sour physical needs right.
Then we have our emotional.
(02:24):
We have those emotions that weneed to get, our mental and our
spiritual, and so our nervoussystem is included in a lot of
that place.
But if we over-focus I like tosay that and it sounds
judgmental but if we over-focuson one leg, if we just go to God
and take everything to God andignore the rest, we end up with
(02:44):
a really strong leg, one reallystrong leg on our chair.
So we have a fence post right,six by six, you know, wooden
block underneath our chair, andthen the other three are like
dry spaghetti noodles and theycause, they're just ignored, and
so we still don't feel balancedand we think I'm doing
everything, I know how to do,but we're not doing everything
there could be Right.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
Oh, so you know, you know, Tara and I were just
chatting a little bit about likethese certifications and things
like that, and now I'm like Ineed to go get all these
certifications to my business,Right, but that is actually one
of the things that God taught me.
Another one of the very firstlessons he taught me was about
those four main energies thatyou have your mental, your
(03:26):
emotional, your physical andyour spiritual.
And it's really interestingbecause it does seem like, you
know, when you get into thatspiritual work, you know your
mental and your emotional docome up quite a bit too, Like if
you're actually getting in anddoing the actual spiritual work.
But I noticed that my physicalstill was lacking and it still
(03:49):
is, to some point, right, soworking on that one.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
But you're absolutely right, Because it takes all
four of those pieces to actuallyyeah, we have to heal on all
four of those levels in order tofeel, in order to like release
and feel healed and feelbalanced.
We, each one of those.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
It's not a nice thing , it's actually a need.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
Yes, it is, it's, it's, it's a necessity.
I'm not going to name names,but I had a coach one time that
told me um to to not worry somuch about like the physical or
(04:35):
not worry so much about like themental or not worry so much
about, and that you need to putall your focus on this, or all
your focus on this, or all yourfocus on this, and not worry
about balance.
You know, balance is, is not a,is not a thing like.
You're never really going tofeel balanced and stuff.
And I was sitting there likehey yeah.
(04:57):
Right Like.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
I would disagree.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
I would disagree, I would.
Yeah, you know, and obviously,like when I, when, when that
particular coach was sayingthose things, I was sitting
there like well, that's aninteresting theory, but like, to
me that's like if, if there wasone of the areas that might
(05:19):
have been lacking for her too um, yes, you know and I like we
all learn on our own level, onour own pace yes, absolutely,
absolutely.
And you know there's also otherthings that that disrupt, that
disrupt it.
You know, like uh thinking thatyou know everything, and that's
one of the things that she kindof does tend to struggle with
(05:42):
right and that's, you know, oneof those mental and emotional
low points that that noodle partof that chair right and so,
like when we get and it is, it'skind of like no wonder why, why
we don't feel balanced or whyshe would say something like
that, as, as I've kind ofresearched that and pondered
(06:03):
that, you know like why shewould say something like that,
but it's it's for that verything.
It's it's because she reallydoes still have those noodles
and it's just like you know.
This is why it's so importantfor us to consider, like, each
one of those four areas and Ithink that goes to like you get.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
You can hear all these experts and you can take
all the trainings and you can doall the things Right.
You have to come back to whatworks for you and what, what
your spirit's telling you thatyou need.
At the time, you know likewhat's best for you.
Where do you need to go next?
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Yeah, exactly, because you know this is and we
were chatting a little bit aboutthis before too it's like you
know, this is God-centered work,right, you know there's a lot
of programs out there that willtell you, you know, to hate the
other sex, that women can't betrusted, men can't be trusted.
Let's just hate on them all,right, right, but that is like
(07:01):
creating so much more trauma,like, oh, like, oh, like it
breaks my heart to see that kindof stuff.
But I also see, like, wherethere's there's like blame of
the, the, the person that'sbeing hurt, like well, you
didn't give him enough sex oryou need to stay longer.
(07:23):
This is somehow your fault.
And it's like holy cow, likecome on, like let's get with,
yeah, let's get with the.
The actual truth here, becauseI watch the people in in that
are being like coached or or intherapy with, with people that
(07:45):
that have those beliefs, andit's like they're still so stuck
.
And it's no wonder, becauseboth of those are still trauma
inducing.
Right Approaches.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Right.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
You know what I mean, yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
So I try with everything I do to be trauma
informed.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
Yes, yes, and it's so important to be and I love also
in a gospel centered way, oryou know, at least consider like
your highest form of love,right.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
I like that phrase yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
Yeah, instead of like your higher power, I love the
idea of like your highest formof love, because love is power.
So, anyway, but I definitelywant to chat about this because
I feel like it's so importantand I know for a fact I'm going
to learn a ton from you.
But what is the nervous systemand how is it impacted when
there is trauma in our lives?
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Okay.
So let's back up once and say,first, we're going to talk about
trauma for a second and saytrauma is not what happens to
you, but it is what you do withit, it's how you interpret it,
it's the stories you make itmean about you, and we ruminate
on those, right, and so there'slike four really well-known
(09:09):
reactions that we have to traumawe, we fight, get mad and angry
and blame everyone, right, and?
And we just put up our dukesand want to fight our way out of
it, because that that feelspowerful to you, know, and so it
.
It's maybe something I could dofor myself, right, we fight, we
run away, we hide, we, um, wedon't want to talk to and we
(09:29):
shut people out and I'm nevergoing to talk to you again,
right, um?
Or I want to divorce tomorrow,right, I don't want to hurt
anymore, which doesn't reallycurb the hurting actually.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
No matter of fact, it makes things so much worse
really curb the hurting?
Speaker 2 (09:45):
actually, no matter of fact, it makes things so much
worse a lot of times.
Um, there's, um, there's freeze, so I can just shut down and
not feel anything and just likelay in bed and watch tv for nine
months.
Welcome to my life.
For a minute I froze.
I didn't know what.
I yeah.
And then there's also my verywell-worn path, which is people
(10:08):
pleasing.
I'm uncomfortable, so I'm goingto do whatever I think you need
so that you'll be comfortable,so I can be comfortable, right,
and?
And your nervous system isinvolved in all that.
So your nervous system, it'sthis connection.
So a lot of people think it'sjust your brain and all of the
(10:30):
little neurons that run throughyour body, but actually it's
this beautiful figure eight.
Okay, so it starts in our heart.
Our heart is the thing where wefeel, that's where the
vibration of our emotionsemanates from.
Our heart is the center of us,right, there are more neural
(10:50):
pathways from our heart to ourbrain than there are from our
brain to the rest of our body.
So our heart is the boss of us.
It tells our brain what to do.
And then our brain sendssignals to all of the organs,
all of the fingertips, all ofthe little toes, everything to
tell it what to do.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
Okay, I just yes, I'm dying.
I have to say this because thisis so crazy.
When you're talking about thefigure eight, okay, that's
actually a healing number.
Yeah, no-transcript.
Okay, that's actually a healingnumber.
Yeah, that's one of the mosthealing numbers.
And the reason why is becauseif you think of yourself like
skating, it's a very like in avery, very calm, peaceful way.
(11:31):
The figure eight is a flownumber, calm and peaceful, very
calm and peaceful.
And so whenever you create thatfirst wave into the eight and
then you cross it again, you'reactually literally retraining
your brain, have a newexperience, to have something
different.
We're going in a differentdirection, we're having a
(11:52):
different experience, and that'swhat the eight actually teaches
.
And so when you're saying likeI'm good, like I'm geeking out
over here, I'm like when you'resaying that it's a figure eight,
I'm like, oh my gosh, like thisis so cool, okay, it's a figure
eight because there's theneural pathways.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
It's also a figure eight because there are brain
cells in your heart.
There's brain cells in yourbrain and in your gut.
So that's the figure eight.
It goes down and then back intoyour body and then back up
again and it just just loops.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
Yes.
Well, this is why, too, likewhen you feel that anxiety,
that's in your gut, but alsowhen you feel peace, it's also
in your gut, you know, and it'sbecause you literally do.
You have a head, heart and gutreception center, you know,
happening.
I love this.
Oh, my gosh, I'm okay, I'm, I'm, I'm guys.
I'm going to grab some popcornand just sit here and let her
(12:46):
talk Like I'm loving this somuch.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
I'm loving this so much.
Okay.
So when something happens, whensomething big happens, and we
have this trauma response, ourbrain and our body go into
activation.
Right, I need to, like I loveto talk about you know, our
adrenals start pumping.
Our adrenal glands are therefor a reason.
(13:10):
They're there to give us moreenergy to run away from the bear
, to lift the car off our childthat just got trapped, to get
away, to get to safety.
It's supposed to do that, butwe're the only species, we're
the only people on earth species.
(13:34):
We're the only people on earth.
We're the only people on earth.
We're the only ones who actuallyhave that thought process, who
think about it and ruminate onit In the animal kingdom when
they get into high alert.
So let's think about a deer isin the middle of this beautiful
meadow, okay, and all of asudden, a mountain lion's like
hey, free lunch, right, and itcomes, it sees, it starts to
(13:56):
stalk and she notices and shetakes off and she runs.
Now, if she gets away the deer,she's the she.
If she gets away to safety,then do you, did you know that
in the animal kingdom, what theydo is that when they get away
and when they are safe.
They use their adrenals to havethat extra energy to run away.
(14:17):
When they get safe, theyactually shake.
They shake it off, they let goof all that cortisol so they get
back to neutral and then theycan go on with their life.
Wow, we are the only ones whorepeat it and think about it
again and go over it.
(14:37):
And why did that happen?
And what could I have donedifferently?
And that's what this meansabout me.
And now I'm a stalked personand I'm always on look for the
predator, right.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
But in the animal kingdom, all they do is just let
go of it.
Isn't that so?
Like, simple and beautiful,like, could it be that easy?
Could it be that easy to findways to let go of our you know,
of our stress and that cortisollevel?
Otherwise, we end up highlystressed.
Otherwise, we end up highlystressed, full of anxiety,
(15:14):
craving sugar and or sleepingtoo much, like all of those
trauma responses.
Right, we, just we live in thatforever.
If we, if we don't choose, yeah, you're, you're absolutely
right.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
You're absolutely right and I got to tell you.
You know, this is really coolstuff too, because you're right
too about the animals.
You know how they shake and youknow if anybody that has raised
chickens will know this Right,I've got 12.
Don't ask me how I got thatmany it to twelve, there's a
story anyway.
But so now you know when, youknow how chicks are, when you
(15:59):
reach in, they're like freakingout and scattering and peeping,
and it's a hand, right, yeah,and but the minute you pick up
one of those chicks and you putit in your hand, they shake,
they shake, they shake, theyshake, they shake and then all
of a sudden they just relax.
Yeah, you know, and you're right, it's because they don't have
(16:19):
that ability to ruminate, but wedo, and because of that it
definitely creates one heck of atrauma response.
You know, and I've seen like inmy own life.
You know, we did, we don't likeI didn't shake it off, right, I
(16:40):
held on to these traumas for 25, almost 30 years, you know,
before I finally was like Ican't do this anymore, I'd had
enough.
And my poor brain and myadrenals were shot.
You know, and to this day Imean, that's one of the reasons
too, why you know our physicalbody has a harder time coming up
(17:03):
from the trauma is because whenyou've been in trauma for so
long, your adrenals are shot,your gut is shot, like it does
make such a difference on yourphysical, and so it's really
your physical body needs a lotof support when it comes to
actually healing trauma, right.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
Yeah, it's not just about your stories and your
mental, it's about all of all ofthe things right?
Speaker 1 (17:28):
It is, it really is.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
Yeah.
So there's lots of ways to dothat, to settle.
So that trauma response is justtelling us that our body's on
high alert and it looks likehypervigilance, like I'm in
detective mode.
I'm going to find out what hedid, I'm going to find out who
he's talking to.
I'm going to find out.
You know, I'm going to findevidence of that story.
(17:51):
I'm telling myself.
So we go on the search for itand we just, every time we find
a piece of evidence that wethink that's what that means, we
actually get another hit ofdopamine.
So it actually helps us proveour story to ourselves, right?
So hypervigilance is a reallybig way, especially women in
(18:11):
trauma.
I think men do it too, but forthe most part I work with women,
right?
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
I mean, I have an awesome select few men clients,
but for the most part I workwith women and it's something
that I see a lot, so we call itdetective mode and I teach my
clients.
One of the things I love toteach them is let's recognize
what that feels like in yourbody.
What does it feel like in yourbody when you, um, when you feel
(18:40):
hypervigilant, when you want togo looking for all the evidence
, when you have this traumaresponse and it usually feels
like I can only breathe from thechest up, um, my heart is
racing, my thoughts are spinning, I can't catch my breath Right
and I can't even focus on whatto do next.
And so I teach them like listento your body, what does it need
(19:02):
right now?
So I want to give you a goodexample.
I literally had a traumaresponse this past week.
I don't have them very oftenanymore, but I was in a
conversation totally triggeredme and there's a huge backstory.
That doesn't matter.
But I was in a conversationtotally triggered me and there's
a huge backstory.
That doesn't matter.
What matters is, in the end,what I noticed during this phone
call was I actually stoppedmyself.
I stopped talking because I wastrying to prove my point.
(19:23):
I was trying to think my wayout of it and talk my way out of
it and I stopped and I justsaid I need to be done with this
conversation for now becauseit's not going anywhere, it's
just spinning Both of us arespinning.
And I got off the phone and myhusband told me yesterday.
He said yeah, I said to someone.
I haven't seen her that mad inyears, like decades maybe.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
You know we've been married 30 years.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
He's like I maybe.
I don't know if I've ever seenher that upset.
Maybe you know we've beenmarried 30 years.
He's like I, maybe I don't knowif I've ever seen her that
upset.
But I just closed my eyes and Itook a deep breath and I asked
myself what does my body wantright now?
And I opened my eyes, reallybig, and I looked at him and I
said I'm going for a walk.
And he said okay.
And it was 10 o'clock at nightand I literally put on my shoes.
I couldn't even breathe, I waslike I couldn't even tie them.
(20:11):
I was just my body wanted tomove so badly.
Well, I took off and I walkeddown the road and I remember I
put my headphones in.
I have a really awesomeplaylist that I listen to when
I'm upset.
That just helps me to walk itout.
It's not a stroll through theforest.
It's a get rid of this in mybody.
So I just I had this thoughtcrossed my head, Like if someone
(20:33):
came up behind me to attack mewhile I was on this very dark
road in the middle of the nightby myself.
I could literally turn aroundand punch them, break their nose
, leave them on the ground andwalk away and not care, because
I had that much energy andemotion going on.
You know, and I know, women canrelate to that Right.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
What I got to where I was going.
I walked about a mile in just afew minutes and I, um, I, I got
there, I sat down, I, I had aconversation with God, a very
loud one, and but first I, youknow, I said what I needed to
out loud, like what I had beenholding and feeling, but that
wasn't really appropriate forthe conversation that I was
(21:13):
having on the phone and it justI talked to God, I cried, I had
done my, I had moved, like youknow, my body physically, and
afterwards I felt spent.
I was very clear on what mypart was.
I really did a very deep diveinto what's my part and how did
this happen.
So I owned what I needed to andthen I called my husband.
(21:34):
I really did a very deep diveinto what's my part and how did
this happen.
So I owned what I needed to andthen I called my husband.
I was like emotionally spent, Ineed you to come and pick me up
.
And he was like, okay, great,and you know, I came home.
I actually did a little bit ofyoga, I turned on some music and
I journaled for a minute andthen I was totally at peace and
ready to go to bed and I couldhave let that anger and that
feeling and that emotion andthat trauma response last for a
(21:55):
month.
But I let go of it in less thanan hour with some really great
tools.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
Yes, yes, absolutely, and you know that's one of my
favorite things to do is is towalk, and especially, I think,
for me, cause I you know myrelationship with God like
that's when I get to talk to himyeah you know um and I get some
amazing like downloads and justbecause your body is moving
(22:26):
yeah right it's that flow againit's that it's in that flow
again and especially, I think,even in the outdoors, like we
have, I, I like, I, I likewalking up this road it's, it's
kind of like there's there'sdeer and there you can see foxes
, and like there's there's alittle stream that runs like
right by it, like it's beautiful.
(22:46):
I kind of don't dare do it atnight because yeah, I know, I
love to walk down the river.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
I love by the garden river, but I would not do that
at night.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
Yeah, right, right.
Well, for me I'm not so worriedabout people, I'm worried about
actually about an actualmountain lion, Like well,
there's a lot of people thatlive down at the river, so yes,
yes, I get it.
I don't blame you either.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
But at the same time, like it's such, it's such a
beautiful somatic work.
Yeah, you know, just simplyturn it on in the shower and
just move, getting your body tomove.
We don't do that enough, and soany movement is what helps that
?
It helps the ideas flow, ithelps the stories, it helps me
find the story faster when I addthat movement piece in.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
Yes, yes, so true.
And you know, and when Ithinking back to like when I was
in the deepest, darkest partsof my trauma, you know I wasn't
moving, I was in bed all day.
Yeah Right, I was in bed allday like staring at a screen
trying to just like numb my mind.
You know, and I talk about this, this quite a bit like when
(24:09):
we're in depression.
Depression, you know,depression is actually an
absence of all emotion exceptfor one.
Yeah, well, depression yeah yeah, right, and so you know, once
you actually start getting upand moving, it actually does
tend to help your body and yourbrain start to release dopamine
(24:32):
and oxytocin and all of thesethings that we've been wanting
to experience more of, which iswhy it does heal the nervous
system and we're able toactually start getting out of
those, those responses yeah,yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
So let's talk about a couple of easy ways to just
start that parasympathetic.
So we have these two systems.
The sympathetic nervous systemis the one who gives us the
energy and moves us, and is theone that's in charge most of the
time.
Parasympathetic, they like tocall it rest and digest.
It's, come back to our breath,it's when we come to just that
(25:11):
stillness, and we need both inour life, right?
We need the energy to move andgo and we need to be able to
rest, and so I love to just takemy right hand and stick it on
my heart, right, I like stick itin, so it's skin to skin, when
I'm feeling overwhelmed, and Inoticed that my breath is just
really, you know, very shallow.
Breath is just really, you know, very shallow.
(25:35):
This actually signals yourvagus nerve, the vagus nerve,
and when you put your hand righthere, it actually is right on
top of it, because your vagusnerve comes down from your, from
your brainstem, around bothsides of your neck, and then
what it does is it actuallycrosses right here at your vocal
cords.
Yeah, that's interesting yourtruth, and singing and humming
(25:56):
are such great ways to get outof that fight or flight.
Um, that's why they say you canalways tell a little, a little
person is happy when they'resinging, you know.
So it crosses here and then itgoes, it crosses your body.
That's why the right half ofyour body controls the right
half of your body, controls theright half of your brain,
controls the left of your body.
Right, those signals, theycross right here, but they come
(26:19):
right here.
So if you stick your hand righthere, it signals your body to
just take a deeper breath, justbe present here.
You are being present withyourself and you notice, as you
do that for a second, that youjust start to take deeper
breaths and you settle yourselfdown.
And this is one way that you canregulate, because trauma
(26:41):
dysregulates our nervous system.
It's a synhyalert and so thenwe feel dysregulated, right, and
so doing things like this tojust calm down, I mean, there's
all kinds of you can do tapping.
You can even just do bilateral.
You know any kind of back andforth motion, tapping your knees
(27:02):
, right, they actually havesensors that well, someone told
me the other day there's an appwhere you you hook it to your
phone and then it hooks to yourwatch, like if you have a
smartwatch, so it'll.
If you hold your phone in onehand and have your watch on the
other hand, that it'll just dothat bilateral movement for you
and that helps, I know, isn'tthat interesting?
Speaker 1 (27:23):
I've never heard of that.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
Wow, I've seen before people who wear wristbands who
too that it.
It does that.
But so, yeah, so any sort ofbilateral stimulation, even when
you're having a client andyou're talking to them and they
can't quite access theirfeelings, just have them put
their hands on their knees andjust start tapping back and
(27:45):
forth Not at the same time, justone after another, you know,
but that bilateral stimulationhelps regulate.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
You know my coach she's she's actually been on the
podcast a couple of timesKushla Chadwick she actually has
been trained by is not theperson that created EFT, but it
was like his own personalstudents.
So he taught like four studentsand then one of those taught her
(28:11):
how to how to do EFT and thereare certain like tapping points
and stuff that you can do.
You've got like the side of yourhand when you're when you're
wanting to change a thought orchange a feeling or anything
like that, and then as you talkit out, you know there's the
inner eye, the outer eye, youknow you've got your cheekbone
(28:33):
under your nose, your chin, yourheart, and which is, you know,
which is really interesting,because she was mentioning that
you want to keep it open, yourhand as you're tapping over your
heart, right, an open heart,and then you have it under your
arm, just kind of right on yourrib cage, and then the top of
your head, and it just keepscirculating around.
(28:55):
But I will tell you I haven'tseen anything work better than
that practice.
And I do essential oils, I domeditation, I love walking, I
love things like that, but whenwe're talking about actually
shifting, making big shifts,I've not seen anything work
(29:16):
better, and the reason why isbecause it actually incorporates
four of the touch points.
Well, the four major touchpoints in creation, which is
your mind, your voice, becauseyou're talking it out right,
your hands you're using yourhands to to do all this work and
then your energy.
Right, it incorporates all fourof those creation touch points,
(29:40):
and so that's one of thereasons why it works so well.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
Yeah, also because every one of those spots there's
actually a nerve bundle, soyou're actually touching back to
your nervous system and that'swhy there's such specific points
, because they're bundles ofnerves in those places where you
can access that nervous systemagain.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
Wow, that's seen.
I didn't know that.
She didn't mention that to me,but how cool is that?
Like I love this stuff.
Yeah, I do.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
Here's my other theory, and this is a I don't
know.
Anyway, I love to say that youknow, we think we can do some of
this work in the eternities, orwe can muster through here and
then, you know, maybe it'll getbetter later on or when we get
to heaven, or whatever.
Right, but I'm always like Ithink, how do I say this?
(30:31):
I think that it's so importantthat we use our body in some of
this healing work.
This is our chance with ourbody, this is our existence with
our body.
The rest of it, we, you know.
So why not use our body?
Not just, we're not just goingto think new thoughts and have
new awarenesses, we're not justgoing to pray to God, like I
(30:51):
come back to my little PEMSchair right Like we need to
involve our physical body.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
Absolutely.
You know, oh you, okay, I'mtotally going a Latter-day Saint
on on my audience here, guys,because, you know, Latter-day
Saints are people who love theirtemples, right, and we do a lot
of proxy work in our templestheir temples, right, and we do
a lot of proxy work in ourtemples, so that way, families
can be together.
(31:17):
You know, we connect um parentsto children and and children to
parents and and parents toparents, right, like we connect
families together.
But one of the things we'realso taught is our body is a
temple and so what are we doingwhen we're actually doing this
type of work?
We're not waiting until theother side to connect all these
(31:39):
pieces, right?
No, we're actually.
When you heal yourself, you arenot, and I can promise and
testify to this with 100accuracy.
When you heal your body, whenyou heal your nervous system,
when you heal your nervoussystem, when you heal your
trauma, you're not just healingyou, you are healing generations
.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
For sure.
Speaker 1 (31:59):
You are.
You know, and I've watched this.
Like you know, I've talked alittle bit about my mom on this
podcast and how.
You know I definitely had a lotof trauma responses with her.
You know, growing up and youknow, clear into almost my 30s.
Now my relationship with her isbetter than it's ever been.
(32:20):
It's in a way that I nevercould have possibly imagined,
but it's because I did the innerwork and because I did the
inner work, it has affected her,it's affected generation after
generation after generation andit's definitely affected my kids
Watching them, because nobody'sfree of trauma.
(32:41):
I mean, how long I've beendoing this?
For 11 years, You've been doingthis for 10 years.
I'm still not free of trauma.
You're not free of trauma we.
Speaker 2 (32:51):
We still have traumas that come up, you know but I
have mad skills to work throughit when I exactly, yeah, exactly
yeah.
And I teach my kids too.
It's just amazing to watch howawesome they are.
I love, I love to watch theminteract and work through things
and learn new things.
And yeah, my mom, she's sofunny.
(33:13):
I can deeply relate to yourstory about your mom, my mom.
I like to call her my researchassistant at this point because
she loves to look things up, andso if I mentioned something,
she'll just be all over it.
So as soon as I realized that,then now I'm like hey, mom, what
do you think about this?
And she'll come back with allthis research for me.
But this, and she'll come backwith all his research for me.
(33:35):
But, um, she called me one day,not very long ago and she was
like do you know anything abouttrauma?
And she's like she's all intolearning about trauma.
And I'm she's like do you knowthis?
Do you know this?
I'm like, um, yes, thank you,it's a good reminder, you know.
But it's just so funny.
She's all this is what she'sthinking about now and learning
about.
And I'm like oh, I love it.
Speaker 1 (33:52):
Welcome to the path, mom, and isn't it, isn't it
beautiful?
And you know, you know it's avery, it's very similar things
too, because my mom is nowstarting to learn about
relationships and self-love andself-acceptance and like, like
these things, and it's like I'mso proud of her, I'm so proud of
her and it's it's like, and Ican feel it, you know, impacting
(34:17):
past generations too.
You know, not just my mom, butmy grandma, my great grandma.
You know, and and you know allthe way through where these
stories have started, right, andit's I.
I can't share like all of it onthe podcast, because some of
it's very deeply and veryprecious personal experiences,
but I know for a fact like, whenyou heal trauma, you know
(34:41):
heaven celebrates, right, itreally does I've had those
experiences too, yeah yeah, itreally does.
Oh, so good stuff.
Oh, like one of my favoritepodcasts I'm.
I'm telling you this, she's'sgoing to be back.
You guys, we're definitelygoing to have Tara back.
This is so much fun.
Okay, so we're talking aboutlike movement else in my house
(35:12):
actually, but you know, I lovethem because, you know, one of
the things that I have learnedis each one of the oils actually
has a different emotionalresponse, and the reason why is
because your olfactory nerve andyour olfactory bulb is right
there next to your emotion andyour trauma center.
Believe it or not, right, it'sright there.
And so you know, whatever we'resmelling does make a difference
(35:38):
.
It starts to calm the mind andshift the mind.
Um, you know, I, I I'm totally,totally a doTERRA nerd.
I love doTERRA oils, oils andum.
One of my favorite to use inany type of like generational
trauma healing is is like anyone of the fur oils, because
(36:01):
they are so grounded and theyjust kind of help bring you back
down to earth and help likethey are one of my favorites in
calming the nervous system.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (36:13):
I love cedarwood.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
Yeah, or balance, or it used to be white, for it's
Siberian, for now is actuallythe generational healer Awesome,
you know.
And so it's like there's somany things, so many things.
I love essential oils, usingessential oils along with
meditation, you know what, likewe've got some major, major
(36:38):
tools here to try to starthealing that nervous system, but
one of the things that I reallythink that all of these take is
the ability to be presentenough with yourself to say I
need to carve out some time todo these to be present enough
with yourself to say I need tocarve out some time to do these.
(37:00):
Yeah, you know, one thing I seea lot of people doing when they
have struggles in their nervoussystem is they totally forget
themselves, and this is one ofthe most like you know.
I say this that you know you'vegot your fight, your your
flight, your freeze and yourfawn response, and I say the
most dangerous is the fawn.
Yeah, because, yeah, for acouple of reasons, like if
you're pushing yourself, ifyou're people pleasing, that's a
(37:24):
way to hide yourself, right.
But the thing is, you end uphiding yourself so deeply that
you can't find yourself Right.
And these are the types ofpeople that really, really
struggle to carve out time forthemselves to do these practices
.
So what do you suggest?
Speaker 2 (37:43):
Well, recognizing it like awareness is the very first
step, right, like.
And so you know, I I like totell people.
I was telling the clientyesterday, client yesterday, I
call myself a people pleaser inrecovery, a recovering people
pleaser, because I did that forso many years Until the day that
(38:04):
I realized that it was moreself-serving than I thought,
because I told myself I wasdoing it to help to, to do the
things I thought you needed.
I wasn't asking you what youneeded, but I was.
I was just assuming and jumpingin and trying to be all the
things to all the people, andthe day that I realized that it
(38:24):
was because I was uncomfortableand so I was trying to make you
more comfortable, so I could becomfortable, and it was actually
more self-serving than Ithought.
It's actually one of the mostself-serving things, right.
But as soon as you can see thatpiece and I know I have a lot
of pushback because people arelike, oh no, I just I love to
(38:44):
help, I love to serve, I love todo this thing I'm like, yes,
and you can't serve from anempty vessel.
So I had a client who she said,I just had this thing come to me
yesterday and I want to share,like this object lesson that I
gave my daughter.
And I was like, okay, great.
So she said I, she said to mewhy are you leaving this weekend
(39:05):
?
Why are you going away to spendtime with your friend?
You must not love me and Idon't think you're ever coming
back.
And, um, you know, I'm, I'mworried she's just a little one
and I'm worried that you'renever coming back.
And and she said grab that cup.
So she had this big cup andthen she had four little ones,
cause she has four little ones.
And she said I'm going to pourmy water into your cup, you know
(39:26):
, so that you each have some.
She said now mine's gone, soI'm going to fill it up again
and then when I come back, thenI can make sure that yours are
all full.
But it takes more than one trip.
And she said this is how I fillmy cup, so that I have in there
to give to you, because we can'tserve from an empty cup.
And so when I know that I getto take time, the more time I
(39:49):
get to spend taking care of me,the more energy I have to take
care of you.
Then it's this beautiful figureeight again.
Right that we go, it's a cycle.
But if I don't do that, if Idon't take that time to check in
with my emotions and figure outhow I feel about things, to
(40:10):
recognize what's going on in mybody, body, to see if I'm
activated in my nervous system,then I, just, I, just I can spin
out and we end up in compassion, compassion, fatigue and
burnout.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:23):
We haven't filled our cup again.
Speaker 1 (40:26):
Yes, oh my gosh, I think I might have to use that
analogy Like that was so good,it's so good.
But you know, this is amazingto note because it's so true.
You know, if we don't take thetime for ourselves, we do end up
(40:47):
in burnout, we do end up inoverwhelm, we do end up in what
I call the adversaries, theseven adversaries.
You know, you've got the sevenpillars versus the seven
adversaries, and I talk a littlebit about that in the podcast.
But overwhelm and burnout,that's the opposite of play,
(41:08):
right?
No, you're absolutely not ableto give.
And the thing is, is you're,you're totally right, it's
actually a way of manipulation,right?
Like fight, yeah, yeah,nobody's going to come out of
(41:29):
the fight looking quite pretty,I do think, but it doesn't quite
last as long as FON.
You get into the freeze, youknow same thing.
It doesn't quite last as longFor some, for some, for some,
right, that's true.
Yeah, you know the flight, youknow same thing.
(41:52):
But when you get into that fawnthis is the one thing like
people, the brain it's notanybody's fault, like, we're not
blaming anybody because yourbrain does like crazy things.
Right, to keep you safe, right,right.
And so it learns.
Well, if I hide myself and Iextremely people please, and I
(42:14):
just serve, serve, serve and Idon't, and I just leave myself
off to the side and I don'tstand up for myself and I don't
have a voice and I don't havethose things, that I'm finally
safe, right, right.
But the problem is is thisactually not addressing the
problem?
Yeah, it's never going toaddress that problem, right?
(42:35):
We're not talking about it,we're hiding from it and we
literally become a servant tothe person or people that tend
to hurt us the most, because wethink that's all.
The world is Right, right.
Speaker 2 (42:50):
Yeah, and we think if we just do this one more thing,
maybe they'll stop and we wewon't hurt so much yeah, yeah,
and it's.
Speaker 1 (42:58):
It's actually a type of control, and that was you're
talking about, like another oneof the lessons that.
One of the first lessons thatgod taught me was how I was
actually in a cycle of controland I didn't realize it and once
I saw it, I was like, oh mygosh, like that is so totally
(43:19):
what I'm doing, right, and it's,it's such a very subtle way to
manipulate.
It's a very subtle way tomanipulate and a subtle way to
try to control.
But the reason why you're doingit is so you can control how
somebody else reacts, somebodyelse thinks somebody else lives.
Speaker 2 (43:40):
Which is so funny, because when you say it out loud
you're like but control is anillusion and I can't actually
control you.
Speaker 1 (43:45):
Right, but man do we sure try.
Oh yes, man do we ever try?
But it's like I feel, like youknow just from my personal
experience I'd love to hearyours that I think that the
people that have the two, thetwo I see the most with people
(44:07):
who have a very, very stucknervous system is definitely the
fawn or the fight, and I thinkit's because once people realize
that the fawn isn't working,well, then they come out
swinging, you know, and so theykind of vacillate sometimes
between the two.
Speaker 2 (44:25):
Yeah, I think they kind of I would say they spin in
all of them.
But yeah, for sure, those areprobably the two most popular.
Speaker 1 (44:33):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:35):
So interesting.
But you know we could do awhole other podcast about this,
but I literally I see all ofthose as just survivor
strategies.
Speaker 1 (44:42):
It is.
Speaker 2 (44:44):
Right, I come up like this is my survivor strategy.
I'm going to fight my way outof it so that you can't hurt me
anymore.
Speaker 1 (44:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:51):
Protect my wound Right my way out of it so that
you can't hurt me anymore.
Yeah, protect my wound right.
Or I'm going to please my wayout of it so that, or I'm just
going to ignore it and pretendlike it doesn't happen.
Speaker 1 (44:58):
Yeah, yeah, yes, oh, we totally could do a whole
other podcast about that.
Yes, we could, we totally could.
And one of the things, too,that I also want to really
mention to you, my beautifullisteners, is is it's not your
fault, like nobody's blaming you, nobody's judging you.
Well, if they are, it's not us,but like we're not blaming you,
(45:19):
we're not judging you, likeit's just really good, like Tara
was saying, to be aware ofwhat's going on.
And so if you're findingyourself, you know, stuck in,
you know your nervous system,and knowing that you need to
heal that nervous system, youknow, get out and walk, start
(45:41):
shaking it off.
Speaker 2 (45:42):
Shake it off.
Speaker 1 (45:43):
Shake it off Right, do the?
Do the whole Taylor Swift thing.
Shake it off.
Do some meditation, eft, getinto those scriptures like
there's some beautiful,beautiful things in the
scriptures, you know, uh, thatcan teach you about trauma and
(46:04):
how to heal it.
Um, and really build up allfour of these pieces your mental
, your emotional, your spiritualand your physical and you'll
start noticing a big difference.
Yeah for sure, yeah, absolutely.
Tara, thank you so much forbeing here.
Wow, like such a good podcast.
(46:26):
I'm so excited to go and likejust shake like I want.
I want to shake right now likeI really do and and get that
figure eight going, because youknow, there's oh, just so much
yummy energy from that, yeah,and from this podcast yes, good
stuff.
We will definitely have Taraback.
(46:47):
Do you um?
Where do people find you ifthey want to come talk to you?
Speaker 2 (46:51):
um, you know you can find me on shaleyhopecom.
There's a lot of free resourcesthere.
I also teach classes.
I teach a class calledFacilitating Emotional Literacy
to teach coaches how to, becauseit's a piece that's missing out
of a lot of coaching programs.
So I have that one just how tohelp your clients through their
emotional stuff and thedifferent see the different
(47:13):
patterns that they have.
So it's a six-week or you knowit has six lessons.
And then, yeah, I also teachcertification, one-year-long
certification course which is alot of group coaching, a lot of
practicing, so that you're notjust left out in the cold after
three days to say good luck,right, it's like.
(47:33):
It's like all the things youneed, all the ethics, all the
formats, all the paperwork thatyou need.
You know everything in oneplace.
So, yeah, you can findshayolihopecom.
Will you put a link in thenotes?
Speaker 1 (47:47):
Sure, absolutely, absolutely.
And you know I work a lot withboth Tara and Ronwin, who are
who are the heads of Shaley Hope, and so I can tell you it's a
great place and I love both ofthem.
You're in good hands when youtalk to them too, so you're a
good success story for us.
Speaker 2 (48:02):
We love it.
Yeah, yeah, it's good, it'samazing, it's fun, isn't it?
Speaker 1 (48:10):
Yeah, my gosh, it's so much fun.
I love it.
I love it.
Awesome, All right, thanks youguys.
We will see you on the otherside.
Bye.
Hey everyone, welcome back to another episode of the
Other Side of the Struggle Guys.
I'm so excited for today'sepisode and today's podcast
guest.
I have been working a littlebit with Tara Brown for probably
a couple of years now and Ireally got the opportunity to
connect with her through theRejuvenate you program.
(00:23):
Tara Brown is a betrayal traumacoach or basically just a
trauma coach, because that iswhat we are right but she's
APSATS trained, she's thecertification director through
Shaley Hope and she's justfreaking awesome.
She knows so much.
She's just amazing and Iabsolutely have loved chatting
(00:48):
with her and getting to know herand, you know, sharing in her
wisdom and her goodness, and soI'm just excited to share Tara
with you guys today, my audience, because I think you're going
to love her just as much as me.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Thank you, I'm excited to talk to you, yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Yeah Well, I'm excited about this too, and
especially this topic, becauseyou know, this is one that I've
been diving more into lately.
You know, healing the nervoussystem, because this is such a
big thing when it comes tohealing trauma.
Right, it totally is, and I'vecome across clients multiple
(01:28):
times where I can do all themindset work I can with them,
but it's not sticking becausetheir nervous system is not on
board.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
And yeah, and so it's like really a major thing that
we need to address in healingany type of trauma, and so I
really felt like this isdefinitely something we need to
put on the podcast.
A really strong chair has fourstrong legs right.
(02:03):
So we have our physical, whichincludes, you know, getting
enough sleep and and which ishard when you're in trauma and
eating the right things anddrinking water, just plain.
You know, easy stuff, but it'sour physical needs right.
Then we have our emotional.
(02:24):
We have those emotions that weneed to get, our mental and our
spiritual, and so our nervoussystem is included in a lot of
that place.
But if we over-focus I like tosay that and it sounds
judgmental but if we over-focuson one leg, if we just go to God
and take everything to God andignore the rest, we end up with
(02:44):
a really strong leg, one reallystrong leg on our chair.
So we have a fence post right,six by six, you know, wooden
block underneath our chair, andthen the other three are like
dry spaghetti noodles and theycause, they're just ignored, and
so we still don't feel balancedand we think I'm doing
everything, I know how to do,but we're not doing everything
there could be Right.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
Oh, so you know, you know, Tara and I were just
chatting a little bit about likethese certifications and things
like that, and now I'm like Ineed to go get all these
certifications to my business,Right, but that is actually one
of the things that God taught me.
Another one of the very firstlessons he taught me was about
those four main energies thatyou have your mental, your
(03:26):
emotional, your physical andyour spiritual.
And it's really interestingbecause it does seem like, you
know, when you get into thatspiritual work, you know your
mental and your emotional docome up quite a bit too, Like if
you're actually getting in anddoing the actual spiritual work.
But I noticed that my physicalstill was lacking and it still
(03:49):
is, to some point, right, soworking on that one.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
But you're absolutely right, Because it takes all
four of those pieces to actuallyyeah, we have to heal on all
four of those levels in order tofeel, in order to like release
and feel healed and feelbalanced.
We, each one of those.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
It's not a nice thing , it's actually a need.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
Yes, it is, it's, it's, it's a necessity.
I'm not going to name names,but I had a coach one time that
told me um to to not worry somuch about like the physical or
(04:35):
not worry so much about like themental or not worry so much
about, and that you need to putall your focus on this, or all
your focus on this, or all yourfocus on this, and not worry
about balance.
You know, balance is, is not a,is not a thing like.
You're never really going tofeel balanced and stuff.
And I was sitting there likehey yeah.
(04:57):
Right Like.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
I would disagree.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
I would disagree, I would.
Yeah, you know, and obviously,like when I, when, when that
particular coach was sayingthose things, I was sitting
there like well, that's aninteresting theory, but like, to
me that's like if, if there wasone of the areas that might
(05:19):
have been lacking for her too um, yes, you know and I like we
all learn on our own level, onour own pace yes, absolutely,
absolutely.
And you know there's also otherthings that that disrupt, that
disrupt it.
You know, like uh thinking thatyou know everything, and that's
one of the things that she kindof does tend to struggle with
(05:42):
right and that's, you know, oneof those mental and emotional
low points that that noodle partof that chair right and so,
like when we get and it is, it'skind of like no wonder why, why
we don't feel balanced or whyshe would say something like
that, as, as I've kind ofresearched that and pondered
(06:03):
that, you know like why shewould say something like that,
but it's it's for that verything.
It's it's because she reallydoes still have those noodles
and it's just like you know.
This is why it's so importantfor us to consider, like, each
one of those four areas and Ithink that goes to like you get.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
You can hear all these experts and you can take
all the trainings and you can doall the things Right.
You have to come back to whatworks for you and what, what
your spirit's telling you thatyou need.
At the time, you know likewhat's best for you.
Where do you need to go next?
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Yeah, exactly, because you know this is and we
were chatting a little bit aboutthis before too it's like you
know, this is God-centered work,right, you know there's a lot
of programs out there that willtell you, you know, to hate the
other sex, that women can't betrusted, men can't be trusted.
Let's just hate on them all,right, right, but that is like
(07:01):
creating so much more trauma,like, oh, like, oh, like it
breaks my heart to see that kindof stuff.
But I also see, like, wherethere's there's like blame of
the, the, the person that'sbeing hurt, like well, you
didn't give him enough sex oryou need to stay longer.
(07:23):
This is somehow your fault.
And it's like holy cow, likecome on, like let's get with,
yeah, let's get with the.
The actual truth here, becauseI watch the people in in that
are being like coached or or intherapy with, with people that
(07:45):
that have those beliefs, andit's like they're still so stuck
.
And it's no wonder, becauseboth of those are still trauma
inducing.
Right Approaches.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Right.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
You know what I mean, yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
So I try with everything I do to be trauma
informed.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
Yes, yes, and it's so important to be and I love also
in a gospel centered way, oryou know, at least consider like
your highest form of love,right.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
I like that phrase yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
Yeah, instead of like your higher power, I love the
idea of like your highest formof love, because love is power.
So, anyway, but I definitelywant to chat about this because
I feel like it's so importantand I know for a fact I'm going
to learn a ton from you.
But what is the nervous systemand how is it impacted when
there is trauma in our lives?
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Okay.
So let's back up once and say,first, we're going to talk about
trauma for a second and saytrauma is not what happens to
you, but it is what you do withit, it's how you interpret it,
it's the stories you make itmean about you, and we ruminate
on those, right, and so there'slike four really well-known
(09:09):
reactions that we have to traumawe, we fight, get mad and angry
and blame everyone, right, and?
And we just put up our dukesand want to fight our way out of
it, because that that feelspowerful to you, know, and so it
.
It's maybe something I could dofor myself, right, we fight, we
run away, we hide, we, um, wedon't want to talk to and we
(09:29):
shut people out and I'm nevergoing to talk to you again,
right, um?
Or I want to divorce tomorrow,right, I don't want to hurt
anymore, which doesn't reallycurb the hurting actually.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
No matter of fact, it makes things so much worse
really curb the hurting?
Speaker 2 (09:45):
actually, no matter of fact, it makes things so much
worse a lot of times.
Um, there's, um, there's freeze, so I can just shut down and
not feel anything and just likelay in bed and watch tv for nine
months.
Welcome to my life.
For a minute I froze.
I didn't know what.
I yeah.
And then there's also my verywell-worn path, which is people
(10:08):
pleasing.
I'm uncomfortable, so I'm goingto do whatever I think you need
so that you'll be comfortable,so I can be comfortable, right,
and?
And your nervous system isinvolved in all that.
So your nervous system, it'sthis connection.
So a lot of people think it'sjust your brain and all of the
(10:30):
little neurons that run throughyour body, but actually it's
this beautiful figure eight.
Okay, so it starts in our heart.
Our heart is the thing where wefeel, that's where the
vibration of our emotionsemanates from.
Our heart is the center of us,right, there are more neural
(10:50):
pathways from our heart to ourbrain than there are from our
brain to the rest of our body.
So our heart is the boss of us.
It tells our brain what to do.
And then our brain sendssignals to all of the organs,
all of the fingertips, all ofthe little toes, everything to
tell it what to do.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
Okay, I just yes, I'm dying.
I have to say this because thisis so crazy.
When you're talking about thefigure eight, okay, that's
actually a healing number.
Yeah, no-transcript.
Okay, that's actually a healingnumber.
Yeah, that's one of the mosthealing numbers.
And the reason why is becauseif you think of yourself like
skating, it's a very like in avery, very calm, peaceful way.
(11:31):
The figure eight is a flownumber, calm and peaceful, very
calm and peaceful.
And so whenever you create thatfirst wave into the eight and
then you cross it again, you'reactually literally retraining
your brain, have a newexperience, to have something
different.
We're going in a differentdirection, we're having a
(11:52):
different experience, and that'swhat the eight actually teaches
.
And so when you're saying likeI'm good, like I'm geeking out
over here, I'm like when you'resaying that it's a figure eight,
I'm like, oh my gosh, like thisis so cool, okay, it's a figure
eight because there's theneural pathways.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
It's also a figure eight because there are brain
cells in your heart.
There's brain cells in yourbrain and in your gut.
So that's the figure eight.
It goes down and then back intoyour body and then back up
again and it just just loops.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
Yes.
Well, this is why, too, likewhen you feel that anxiety,
that's in your gut, but alsowhen you feel peace, it's also
in your gut, you know, and it'sbecause you literally do.
You have a head, heart and gutreception center, you know,
happening.
I love this.
Oh, my gosh, I'm okay, I'm, I'm, I'm guys.
I'm going to grab some popcornand just sit here and let her
(12:46):
talk Like I'm loving this somuch.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
I'm loving this so much.
Okay.
So when something happens, whensomething big happens, and we
have this trauma response, ourbrain and our body go into
activation.
Right, I need to, like I loveto talk about you know, our
adrenals start pumping.
Our adrenal glands are therefor a reason.
(13:10):
They're there to give us moreenergy to run away from the bear
, to lift the car off our childthat just got trapped, to get
away, to get to safety.
It's supposed to do that, butwe're the only species, we're
the only people on earth species.
(13:34):
We're the only people on earth.
We're the only people on earth.
We're the only ones who actuallyhave that thought process, who
think about it and ruminate onit In the animal kingdom when
they get into high alert.
So let's think about a deer isin the middle of this beautiful
meadow, okay, and all of asudden, a mountain lion's like
hey, free lunch, right, and itcomes, it sees, it starts to
(13:56):
stalk and she notices and shetakes off and she runs.
Now, if she gets away the deer,she's the she.
If she gets away to safety,then do you, did you know that
in the animal kingdom, what theydo is that when they get away
and when they are safe.
They use their adrenals to havethat extra energy to run away.
(14:17):
When they get safe, theyactually shake.
They shake it off, they let goof all that cortisol so they get
back to neutral and then theycan go on with their life.
Wow, we are the only ones whorepeat it and think about it
again and go over it.
(14:37):
And why did that happen?
And what could I have donedifferently?
And that's what this meansabout me.
And now I'm a stalked personand I'm always on look for the
predator, right.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
But in the animal kingdom, all they do is just let
go of it.
Isn't that so?
Like, simple and beautiful,like, could it be that easy?
Could it be that easy to findways to let go of our you know,
of our stress and that cortisollevel?
Otherwise, we end up highlystressed.
Otherwise, we end up highlystressed, full of anxiety,
(15:14):
craving sugar and or sleepingtoo much, like all of those
trauma responses.
Right, we, just we live in thatforever.
If we, if we don't choose, yeah, you're, you're absolutely
right.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
You're absolutely right and I got to tell you.
You know, this is really coolstuff too, because you're right
too about the animals.
You know how they shake and youknow if anybody that has raised
chickens will know this Right,I've got 12.
Don't ask me how I got thatmany it to twelve, there's a
story anyway.
But so now you know when, youknow how chicks are, when you
(15:59):
reach in, they're like freakingout and scattering and peeping,
and it's a hand, right, yeah,and but the minute you pick up
one of those chicks and you putit in your hand, they shake,
they shake, they shake, theyshake, they shake and then all
of a sudden they just relax.
Yeah, you know, and you're right, it's because they don't have
(16:19):
that ability to ruminate, but wedo, and because of that it
definitely creates one heck of atrauma response.
You know, and I've seen like inmy own life.
You know, we did, we don't likeI didn't shake it off, right, I
(16:40):
held on to these traumas for 25, almost 30 years, you know,
before I finally was like Ican't do this anymore, I'd had
enough.
And my poor brain and myadrenals were shot.
You know, and to this day Imean, that's one of the reasons
too, why you know our physicalbody has a harder time coming up
(17:03):
from the trauma is because whenyou've been in trauma for so
long, your adrenals are shot,your gut is shot, like it does
make such a difference on yourphysical, and so it's really
your physical body needs a lotof support when it comes to
actually healing trauma, right.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
Yeah, it's not just about your stories and your
mental, it's about all of all ofthe things right?
Speaker 1 (17:28):
It is, it really is.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
Yeah.
So there's lots of ways to dothat, to settle.
So that trauma response is justtelling us that our body's on
high alert and it looks likehypervigilance, like I'm in
detective mode.
I'm going to find out what hedid, I'm going to find out who
he's talking to.
I'm going to find out.
You know, I'm going to findevidence of that story.
(17:51):
I'm telling myself.
So we go on the search for itand we just, every time we find
a piece of evidence that wethink that's what that means, we
actually get another hit ofdopamine.
So it actually helps us proveour story to ourselves, right?
So hypervigilance is a reallybig way, especially women in
(18:11):
trauma.
I think men do it too, but forthe most part I work with women,
right?
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
I mean, I have an awesome select few men clients,
but for the most part I workwith women and it's something
that I see a lot, so we call itdetective mode and I teach my
clients.
One of the things I love toteach them is let's recognize
what that feels like in yourbody.
What does it feel like in yourbody when you, um, when you feel
(18:40):
hypervigilant, when you want togo looking for all the evidence
, when you have this traumaresponse and it usually feels
like I can only breathe from thechest up, um, my heart is
racing, my thoughts are spinning, I can't catch my breath Right
and I can't even focus on whatto do next.
And so I teach them like listento your body, what does it need
(19:02):
right now?
So I want to give you a goodexample.
I literally had a traumaresponse this past week.
I don't have them very oftenanymore, but I was in a
conversation totally triggeredme and there's a huge backstory.
That doesn't matter.
But I was in a conversationtotally triggered me and there's
a huge backstory.
That doesn't matter.
What matters is, in the end,what I noticed during this phone
call was I actually stoppedmyself.
I stopped talking because I wastrying to prove my point.
(19:23):
I was trying to think my wayout of it and talk my way out of
it and I stopped and I justsaid I need to be done with this
conversation for now becauseit's not going anywhere, it's
just spinning Both of us arespinning.
And I got off the phone and myhusband told me yesterday.
He said yeah, I said to someone.
I haven't seen her that mad inyears, like decades maybe.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
You know we've been married 30 years.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
He's like I maybe.
I don't know if I've ever seenher that upset.
Maybe you know we've beenmarried 30 years.
He's like I, maybe I don't knowif I've ever seen her that
upset.
But I just closed my eyes and Itook a deep breath and I asked
myself what does my body wantright now?
And I opened my eyes, reallybig, and I looked at him and I
said I'm going for a walk.
And he said okay.
And it was 10 o'clock at nightand I literally put on my shoes.
I couldn't even breathe, I waslike I couldn't even tie them.
(20:11):
I was just my body wanted tomove so badly.
Well, I took off and I walkeddown the road and I remember I
put my headphones in.
I have a really awesomeplaylist that I listen to when
I'm upset.
That just helps me to walk itout.
It's not a stroll through theforest.
It's a get rid of this in mybody.
So I just I had this thoughtcrossed my head, Like if someone
(20:33):
came up behind me to attack mewhile I was on this very dark
road in the middle of the nightby myself.
I could literally turn aroundand punch them, break their nose
, leave them on the ground andwalk away and not care, because
I had that much energy andemotion going on.
You know, and I know, women canrelate to that Right.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
What I got to where I was going.
I walked about a mile in just afew minutes and I, um, I, I got
there, I sat down, I, I had aconversation with God, a very
loud one, and but first I, youknow, I said what I needed to
out loud, like what I had beenholding and feeling, but that
wasn't really appropriate forthe conversation that I was
(21:13):
having on the phone and it justI talked to God, I cried, I had
done my, I had moved, like youknow, my body physically, and
afterwards I felt spent.
I was very clear on what mypart was.
I really did a very deep diveinto what's my part and how did
this happen.
So I owned what I needed to andthen I called my husband.
(21:34):
I really did a very deep diveinto what's my part and how did
this happen.
So I owned what I needed to andthen I called my husband.
I was like emotionally spent, Ineed you to come and pick me up
.
And he was like, okay, great,and you know, I came home.
I actually did a little bit ofyoga, I turned on some music and
I journaled for a minute andthen I was totally at peace and
ready to go to bed and I couldhave let that anger and that
feeling and that emotion andthat trauma response last for a
(21:55):
month.
But I let go of it in less thanan hour with some really great
tools.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
Yes, yes, absolutely, and you know that's one of my
favorite things to do is is towalk, and especially, I think,
for me, cause I you know myrelationship with God like
that's when I get to talk to himyeah you know um and I get some
amazing like downloads and justbecause your body is moving
(22:26):
yeah right it's that flow againit's that it's in that flow
again and especially, I think,even in the outdoors, like we
have, I, I like, I, I likewalking up this road it's, it's
kind of like there's there'sdeer and there you can see foxes
, and like there's there's alittle stream that runs like
right by it, like it's beautiful.
(22:46):
I kind of don't dare do it atnight because yeah, I know, I
love to walk down the river.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
I love by the garden river, but I would not do that
at night.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
Yeah, right, right.
Well, for me I'm not so worriedabout people, I'm worried about
actually about an actualmountain lion, Like well,
there's a lot of people thatlive down at the river, so yes,
yes, I get it.
I don't blame you either.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
But at the same time, like it's such, it's such a
beautiful somatic work.
Yeah, you know, just simplyturn it on in the shower and
just move, getting your body tomove.
We don't do that enough, and soany movement is what helps that
?
It helps the ideas flow, ithelps the stories, it helps me
find the story faster when I addthat movement piece in.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
Yes, yes, so true.
And you know, and when Ithinking back to like when I was
in the deepest, darkest partsof my trauma, you know I wasn't
moving, I was in bed all day.
Yeah Right, I was in bed allday like staring at a screen
trying to just like numb my mind.
You know, and I talk about this, this quite a bit like when
(24:09):
we're in depression.
Depression, you know,depression is actually an
absence of all emotion exceptfor one.
Yeah, well, depression yeah yeah, right, and so you know, once
you actually start getting upand moving, it actually does
tend to help your body and yourbrain start to release dopamine
(24:32):
and oxytocin and all of thesethings that we've been wanting
to experience more of, which iswhy it does heal the nervous
system and we're able toactually start getting out of
those, those responses yeah,yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
So let's talk about a couple of easy ways to just
start that parasympathetic.
So we have these two systems.
The sympathetic nervous systemis the one who gives us the
energy and moves us, and is theone that's in charge most of the
time.
Parasympathetic, they like tocall it rest and digest.
It's, come back to our breath,it's when we come to just that
(25:11):
stillness, and we need both inour life, right?
We need the energy to move andgo and we need to be able to
rest, and so I love to just takemy right hand and stick it on
my heart, right, I like stick itin, so it's skin to skin, when
I'm feeling overwhelmed, and Inoticed that my breath is just
really, you know, very shallow.
Breath is just really, you know, very shallow.
(25:35):
This actually signals yourvagus nerve, the vagus nerve,
and when you put your hand righthere, it actually is right on
top of it, because your vagusnerve comes down from your, from
your brainstem, around bothsides of your neck, and then
what it does is it actuallycrosses right here at your vocal
cords.
Yeah, that's interesting yourtruth, and singing and humming
(25:56):
are such great ways to get outof that fight or flight.
Um, that's why they say you canalways tell a little, a little
person is happy when they'resinging, you know.
So it crosses here and then itgoes, it crosses your body.
That's why the right half ofyour body controls the right
half of your body, controls theright half of your brain,
controls the left of your body.
Right, those signals, theycross right here, but they come
(26:19):
right here.
So if you stick your hand righthere, it signals your body to
just take a deeper breath, justbe present here.
You are being present withyourself and you notice, as you
do that for a second, that youjust start to take deeper
breaths and you settle yourselfdown.
And this is one way that you canregulate, because trauma
(26:41):
dysregulates our nervous system.
It's a synhyalert and so thenwe feel dysregulated, right, and
so doing things like this tojust calm down, I mean, there's
all kinds of you can do tapping.
You can even just do bilateral.
You know any kind of back andforth motion, tapping your knees
(27:02):
, right, they actually havesensors that well, someone told
me the other day there's an appwhere you you hook it to your
phone and then it hooks to yourwatch, like if you have a
smartwatch, so it'll.
If you hold your phone in onehand and have your watch on the
other hand, that it'll just dothat bilateral movement for you
and that helps, I know, isn'tthat interesting?
Speaker 1 (27:23):
I've never heard of that.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
Wow, I've seen before people who wear wristbands who
too that it.
It does that.
But so, yeah, so any sort ofbilateral stimulation, even when
you're having a client andyou're talking to them and they
can't quite access theirfeelings, just have them put
their hands on their knees andjust start tapping back and
(27:45):
forth Not at the same time, justone after another, you know,
but that bilateral stimulationhelps regulate.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
You know my coach she's she's actually been on the
podcast a couple of timesKushla Chadwick she actually has
been trained by is not theperson that created EFT, but it
was like his own personalstudents.
So he taught like four studentsand then one of those taught her
(28:11):
how to how to do EFT and thereare certain like tapping points
and stuff that you can do.
You've got like the side of yourhand when you're when you're
wanting to change a thought orchange a feeling or anything
like that, and then as you talkit out, you know there's the
inner eye, the outer eye, youknow you've got your cheekbone
(28:33):
under your nose, your chin, yourheart, and which is, you know,
which is really interesting,because she was mentioning that
you want to keep it open, yourhand as you're tapping over your
heart, right, an open heart,and then you have it under your
arm, just kind of right on yourrib cage, and then the top of
your head, and it just keepscirculating around.
(28:55):
But I will tell you I haven'tseen anything work better than
that practice.
And I do essential oils, I domeditation, I love walking, I
love things like that, but whenwe're talking about actually
shifting, making big shifts,I've not seen anything work
(29:16):
better, and the reason why isbecause it actually incorporates
four of the touch points.
Well, the four major touchpoints in creation, which is
your mind, your voice, becauseyou're talking it out right,
your hands you're using yourhands to to do all this work and
then your energy.
Right, it incorporates all fourof those creation touch points,
(29:40):
and so that's one of thereasons why it works so well.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
Yeah, also because every one of those spots there's
actually a nerve bundle, soyou're actually touching back to
your nervous system and that'swhy there's such specific points
, because they're bundles ofnerves in those places where you
can access that nervous systemagain.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
Wow, that's seen.
I didn't know that.
She didn't mention that to me,but how cool is that?
Like I love this stuff.
Yeah, I do.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
Here's my other theory, and this is a I don't
know.
Anyway, I love to say that youknow, we think we can do some of
this work in the eternities, orwe can muster through here and
then, you know, maybe it'll getbetter later on or when we get
to heaven, or whatever.
Right, but I'm always like Ithink, how do I say this?
(30:31):
I think that it's so importantthat we use our body in some of
this healing work.
This is our chance with ourbody, this is our existence with
our body.
The rest of it, we, you know.
So why not use our body?
Not just, we're not just goingto think new thoughts and have
new awarenesses, we're not justgoing to pray to God, like I
(30:51):
come back to my little PEMSchair right Like we need to
involve our physical body.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
Absolutely.
You know, oh you, okay, I'mtotally going a Latter-day Saint
on on my audience here, guys,because, you know, Latter-day
Saints are people who love theirtemples, right, and we do a lot
of proxy work in our templestheir temples, right, and we do
a lot of proxy work in ourtemples, so that way, families
can be together.
(31:17):
You know, we connect um parentsto children and and children to
parents and and parents toparents, right, like we connect
families together.
But one of the things we'realso taught is our body is a
temple and so what are we doingwhen we're actually doing this
type of work?
We're not waiting until theother side to connect all these
(31:39):
pieces, right?
No, we're actually.
When you heal yourself, you arenot, and I can promise and
testify to this with 100accuracy.
When you heal your body, whenyou heal your nervous system,
when you heal your nervoussystem, when you heal your
trauma, you're not just healingyou, you are healing generations
.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
For sure.
Speaker 1 (31:59):
You are.
You know, and I've watched this.
Like you know, I've talked alittle bit about my mom on this
podcast and how.
You know I definitely had a lotof trauma responses with her.
You know, growing up and youknow, clear into almost my 30s.
Now my relationship with her isbetter than it's ever been.
(32:20):
It's in a way that I nevercould have possibly imagined,
but it's because I did the innerwork and because I did the
inner work, it has affected her,it's affected generation after
generation after generation andit's definitely affected my kids
Watching them, because nobody'sfree of trauma.
(32:41):
I mean, how long I've beendoing this?
For 11 years, You've been doingthis for 10 years.
I'm still not free of trauma.
You're not free of trauma we.
Speaker 2 (32:51):
We still have traumas that come up, you know but I
have mad skills to work throughit when I exactly, yeah, exactly
yeah.
And I teach my kids too.
It's just amazing to watch howawesome they are.
I love, I love to watch theminteract and work through things
and learn new things.
And yeah, my mom, she's sofunny.
(33:13):
I can deeply relate to yourstory about your mom, my mom.
I like to call her my researchassistant at this point because
she loves to look things up, andso if I mentioned something,
she'll just be all over it.
So as soon as I realized that,then now I'm like hey, mom, what
do you think about this?
And she'll come back with allthis research for me.
But this, and she'll come backwith all his research for me.
(33:35):
But, um, she called me one day,not very long ago and she was
like do you know anything abouttrauma?
And she's like she's all intolearning about trauma.
And I'm she's like do you knowthis?
Do you know this?
I'm like, um, yes, thank you,it's a good reminder, you know.
But it's just so funny.
She's all this is what she'sthinking about now and learning
about.
And I'm like oh, I love it.
Speaker 1 (33:52):
Welcome to the path, mom, and isn't it, isn't it
beautiful?
And you know, you know it's avery, it's very similar things
too, because my mom is nowstarting to learn about
relationships and self-love andself-acceptance and like, like
these things, and it's like I'mso proud of her, I'm so proud of
her and it's it's like, and Ican feel it, you know, impacting
(34:17):
past generations too.
You know, not just my mom, butmy grandma, my great grandma.
You know, and and you know allthe way through where these
stories have started, right, andit's I.
I can't share like all of it onthe podcast, because some of
it's very deeply and veryprecious personal experiences,
but I know for a fact like, whenyou heal trauma, you know
(34:41):
heaven celebrates, right, itreally does I've had those
experiences too, yeah yeah, itreally does.
Oh, so good stuff.
Oh, like one of my favoritepodcasts I'm.
I'm telling you this, she's'sgoing to be back.
You guys, we're definitelygoing to have Tara back.
This is so much fun.
Okay, so we're talking aboutlike movement else in my house
(35:12):
actually, but you know, I lovethem because, you know, one of
the things that I have learnedis each one of the oils actually
has a different emotionalresponse, and the reason why is
because your olfactory nerve andyour olfactory bulb is right
there next to your emotion andyour trauma center.
Believe it or not, right, it'sright there.
And so you know, whatever we'resmelling does make a difference
(35:38):
.
It starts to calm the mind andshift the mind.
Um, you know, I, I I'm totally,totally a doTERRA nerd.
I love doTERRA oils, oils andum.
One of my favorite to use inany type of like generational
trauma healing is is like anyone of the fur oils, because
(36:01):
they are so grounded and theyjust kind of help bring you back
down to earth and help likethey are one of my favorites in
calming the nervous system.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (36:13):
I love cedarwood.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
Yeah, or balance, or it used to be white, for it's
Siberian, for now is actuallythe generational healer Awesome,
you know.
And so it's like there's somany things, so many things.
I love essential oils, usingessential oils along with
meditation, you know what, likewe've got some major, major
(36:38):
tools here to try to starthealing that nervous system, but
one of the things that I reallythink that all of these take is
the ability to be presentenough with yourself to say I
need to carve out some time todo these to be present enough
with yourself to say I need tocarve out some time to do these.
(37:00):
Yeah, you know, one thing I seea lot of people doing when they
have struggles in their nervoussystem is they totally forget
themselves, and this is one ofthe most like you know.
I say this that you know you'vegot your fight, your your
flight, your freeze and yourfawn response, and I say the
most dangerous is the fawn.
Yeah, because, yeah, for acouple of reasons, like if
you're pushing yourself, ifyou're people pleasing, that's a
(37:24):
way to hide yourself, right.
But the thing is, you end uphiding yourself so deeply that
you can't find yourself Right.
And these are the types ofpeople that really, really
struggle to carve out time forthemselves to do these practices
.
So what do you suggest?
Speaker 2 (37:43):
Well, recognizing it like awareness is the very first
step, right, like.
And so you know, I I like totell people.
I was telling the clientyesterday, client yesterday, I
call myself a people pleaser inrecovery, a recovering people
pleaser, because I did that forso many years Until the day that
(38:04):
I realized that it was moreself-serving than I thought,
because I told myself I wasdoing it to help to, to do the
things I thought you needed.
I wasn't asking you what youneeded, but I was.
I was just assuming and jumpingin and trying to be all the
things to all the people, andthe day that I realized that it
(38:24):
was because I was uncomfortableand so I was trying to make you
more comfortable, so I could becomfortable, and it was actually
more self-serving than Ithought.
It's actually one of the mostself-serving things, right.
But as soon as you can see thatpiece and I know I have a lot
of pushback because people arelike, oh no, I just I love to
(38:44):
help, I love to serve, I love todo this thing I'm like, yes,
and you can't serve from anempty vessel.
So I had a client who she said,I just had this thing come to me
yesterday and I want to share,like this object lesson that I
gave my daughter.
And I was like, okay, great.
So she said I, she said to mewhy are you leaving this weekend
(39:05):
?
Why are you going away to spendtime with your friend?
You must not love me and Idon't think you're ever coming
back.
And, um, you know, I'm, I'mworried she's just a little one
and I'm worried that you'renever coming back.
And and she said grab that cup.
So she had this big cup andthen she had four little ones,
cause she has four little ones.
And she said I'm going to pourmy water into your cup, you know
(39:26):
, so that you each have some.
She said now mine's gone, soI'm going to fill it up again
and then when I come back, thenI can make sure that yours are
all full.
But it takes more than one trip.
And she said this is how I fillmy cup, so that I have in there
to give to you, because we can'tserve from an empty cup.
And so when I know that I getto take time, the more time I
(39:49):
get to spend taking care of me,the more energy I have to take
care of you.
Then it's this beautiful figureeight again.
Right that we go, it's a cycle.
But if I don't do that, if Idon't take that time to check in
with my emotions and figure outhow I feel about things, to
(40:10):
recognize what's going on in mybody, body, to see if I'm
activated in my nervous system,then I, just, I, just I can spin
out and we end up in compassion, compassion, fatigue and
burnout.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:23):
We haven't filled our cup again.
Speaker 1 (40:26):
Yes, oh my gosh, I think I might have to use that
analogy Like that was so good,it's so good.
But you know, this is amazingto note because it's so true.
You know, if we don't take thetime for ourselves, we do end up
(40:47):
in burnout, we do end up inoverwhelm, we do end up in what
I call the adversaries, theseven adversaries.
You know, you've got the sevenpillars versus the seven
adversaries, and I talk a littlebit about that in the podcast.
But overwhelm and burnout,that's the opposite of play,
(41:08):
right?
No, you're absolutely not ableto give.
And the thing is, is you're,you're totally right, it's
actually a way of manipulation,right?
Like fight, yeah, yeah,nobody's going to come out of
(41:29):
the fight looking quite pretty,I do think, but it doesn't quite
last as long as FON.
You get into the freeze, youknow same thing.
It doesn't quite last as longFor some, for some, for some,
right, that's true.
Yeah, you know the flight, youknow same thing.
(41:52):
But when you get into that fawnthis is the one thing like
people, the brain it's notanybody's fault, like, we're not
blaming anybody because yourbrain does like crazy things.
Right, to keep you safe, right,right.
And so it learns.
Well, if I hide myself and Iextremely people please, and I
(42:14):
just serve, serve, serve and Idon't, and I just leave myself
off to the side and I don'tstand up for myself and I don't
have a voice and I don't havethose things, that I'm finally
safe, right, right.
But the problem is is thisactually not addressing the
problem?
Yeah, it's never going toaddress that problem, right?
(42:35):
We're not talking about it,we're hiding from it and we
literally become a servant tothe person or people that tend
to hurt us the most, because wethink that's all.
The world is Right, right.
Speaker 2 (42:50):
Yeah, and we think if we just do this one more thing,
maybe they'll stop and we wewon't hurt so much yeah, yeah,
and it's.
Speaker 1 (42:58):
It's actually a type of control, and that was you're
talking about, like another oneof the lessons that.
One of the first lessons thatgod taught me was how I was
actually in a cycle of controland I didn't realize it and once
I saw it, I was like, oh mygosh, like that is so totally
(43:19):
what I'm doing, right, and it's,it's such a very subtle way to
manipulate.
It's a very subtle way tomanipulate and a subtle way to
try to control.
But the reason why you're doingit is so you can control how
somebody else reacts, somebodyelse thinks somebody else lives.
Speaker 2 (43:40):
Which is so funny, because when you say it out loud
you're like but control is anillusion and I can't actually
control you.
Speaker 1 (43:45):
Right, but man do we sure try.
Oh yes, man do we ever try?
But it's like I feel, like youknow just from my personal
experience I'd love to hearyours that I think that the
people that have the two, thetwo I see the most with people
(44:07):
who have a very, very stucknervous system is definitely the
fawn or the fight, and I thinkit's because once people realize
that the fawn isn't working,well, then they come out
swinging, you know, and so theykind of vacillate sometimes
between the two.
Speaker 2 (44:25):
Yeah, I think they kind of I would say they spin in
all of them.
But yeah, for sure, those areprobably the two most popular.
Speaker 1 (44:33):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:35):
So interesting.
But you know we could do awhole other podcast about this,
but I literally I see all ofthose as just survivor
strategies.
Speaker 1 (44:42):
It is.
Speaker 2 (44:44):
Right, I come up like this is my survivor strategy.
I'm going to fight my way outof it so that you can't hurt me
anymore.
Speaker 1 (44:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:51):
Protect my wound Right my way out of it so that
you can't hurt me anymore.
Yeah, protect my wound right.
Or I'm going to please my wayout of it so that, or I'm just
going to ignore it and pretendlike it doesn't happen.
Speaker 1 (44:58):
Yeah, yeah, yes, oh, we totally could do a whole
other podcast about that.
Yes, we could, we totally could.
And one of the things, too,that I also want to really
mention to you, my beautifullisteners, is is it's not your
fault, like nobody's blaming you, nobody's judging you.
Well, if they are, it's not us,but like we're not blaming you,
(45:19):
we're not judging you, likeit's just really good, like Tara
was saying, to be aware ofwhat's going on.
And so if you're findingyourself, you know, stuck in,
you know your nervous system,and knowing that you need to
heal that nervous system, youknow, get out and walk, start
(45:41):
shaking it off.
Speaker 2 (45:42):
Shake it off.
Speaker 1 (45:43):
Shake it off Right, do the?
Do the whole Taylor Swift thing.
Shake it off.
Do some meditation, eft, getinto those scriptures like
there's some beautiful,beautiful things in the
scriptures, you know, uh, thatcan teach you about trauma and
(46:04):
how to heal it.
Um, and really build up allfour of these pieces your mental
, your emotional, your spiritualand your physical and you'll
start noticing a big difference.
Yeah for sure, yeah, absolutely.
Tara, thank you so much forbeing here.
Wow, like such a good podcast.
(46:26):
I'm so excited to go and likejust shake like I want.
I want to shake right now likeI really do and and get that
figure eight going, because youknow, there's oh, just so much
yummy energy from that, yeah,and from this podcast yes, good
stuff.
We will definitely have Taraback.
(46:47):
Do you um?
Where do people find you ifthey want to come talk to you?
Speaker 2 (46:51):
um, you know you can find me on shaleyhopecom.
There's a lot of free resourcesthere.
I also teach classes.
I teach a class calledFacilitating Emotional Literacy
to teach coaches how to, becauseit's a piece that's missing out
of a lot of coaching programs.
So I have that one just how tohelp your clients through their
emotional stuff and thedifferent see the different
(47:13):
patterns that they have.
So it's a six-week or you knowit has six lessons.
And then, yeah, I also teachcertification, one-year-long
certification course which is alot of group coaching, a lot of
practicing, so that you're notjust left out in the cold after
three days to say good luck,right, it's like.
(47:33):
It's like all the things youneed, all the ethics, all the
formats, all the paperwork thatyou need.
You know everything in oneplace.
So, yeah, you can findshayolihopecom.
Will you put a link in thenotes?
Speaker 1 (47:47):
Sure, absolutely, absolutely.
And you know I work a lot withboth Tara and Ronwin, who are
who are the heads of Shaley Hope, and so I can tell you it's a
great place and I love both ofthem.
You're in good hands when youtalk to them too, so you're a
good success story for us.
Speaker 2 (48:02):
We love it.
Yeah, yeah, it's good, it'samazing, it's fun, isn't it?
Speaker 1 (48:10):
Yeah, my gosh, it's so much fun.
I love it.
I love it.
Awesome, All right, thanks youguys.
We will see you on the otherside.
Bye.
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