October 27, 2025 • 23 mins
Tara Ross from Crime off the Grid Podcast joins me to talk about the status of our National Parks and Public Lands on day 27 of the Government Shutdown.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:01):
Before we begin today's episode,I just want to remind you that
this episode aired on Monday,October 27th, 2025.
It's a conversation about ourgovernment shutdown.
Please note that informationwill change on a day-to-day
basis, keep in mind the datethat it aired.
While you're listening, enjoythe episode.
Missy Rentz (00:22):
We are now in day 27 of the federal government
shutdown.
What does that mean for ourparks and public lands?
Join me as we get an insider'sperspective to our parks and the
government shutdown.
I'm your host, Missy Rents, andthis is the Parks podcast.
I'm very grateful to Tara Rossfor being with me today.
(00:43):
Tara is a retired national parkservice law enforcement ranger,
and she's the co-host of TheCrime Off the Grid podcast.
Tara, welcome to the Parkspodcast.
Tara Ross (00:53):
Thank you for having me.
Missy Rentz (00:55):
I want to do an update on the government
shutdown and its impact on ournational parks and public lands.
We had John Goodwin, who is afriend of both of ours on.
Just days after the governmentshut down started and we talked
about what does it mean and whatshould guests be prepared for?
And a little bit of thatconversation was a guessing, but
(01:16):
it was educated guessing.
And so now we are.
Let's see, we're recording thison Friday, October 24th, so
we're like 25 days into theshutdown, and reality has struck
and in some situations quitehard.
What is the status of the parksduring these shutdowns?
Tara Ross (01:36):
As it pertains to individual parks, I think the
answer to what's the status isit depends, and I hate, that's a
horrible answer, mandating thatthe parks stay open, has left
some parks to scramble with, howdo they protect the resource?
How do they protect the public?
And as far as the status of theparks, one thing I've seen, as
(01:57):
far as comments, we see commentson social media and like we just
went to fill in the blank parkand it was just fine.
It was a lovely trip.
Or some people say, see theparks are, we're overstaffed
anyway to begin with, so this isjust cutting the waste.
But what they aren't seeing ishow much harder the Rangers are
having to work to do their ownjob, because now they have to
(02:18):
do.
Other jobs of many supportpositions, like some maintenance
duties.
Not all maintenance people areconsidered essential.
They have to do payroll duties,they have to do resource
management if they can squeezethat in other administrative
jobs.
So anyway, here's here's anexample.
In Yellowstone, for example, orother parks, snowy conditions,
(02:39):
it's winter in a lot of parksalready, like Yellowstone and
Rangers have to get their snowtires on to do their work
safely.
And so the mechanics that dothat are on furlough so they
can't get their tire switched.
And so I know that thishappened.
In Yellowstone, they had to callsomeone back for one or two days
to put snow tires on so that therangers can respond to
(03:02):
emergencies safely.
And that just creates havoc.
And those people are not gonnareceive a paycheck until all
this is over.
Those support people, thosepeople who are furloughed, if
they are, hopefully they do getback pay.
And if you don't mind, could Igive you another example?
Missy Rentz (03:17):
Yes, please.
I love it.
This is helpful to all.
All of us just to hear what'shappening.
Tara Ross (03:21):
yeah, some behind the scenes stuff that people don't
know, I think.
Rangers are still out theregetting, drunk drivers off the
road.
They are still having to respondto and investigate crimes
against people.
Those s.
Sexual assaults and domesticviolence cases and homicide and
those kinds of things.
And in many of those cases, theycollect evidence.
(03:41):
So they're still, those peopleare still working and, but they
have to collect evidence andthey're running into issues
trying to get evidence to crimelabs.
They don't have an avenue tomail.
Their credit cards are shutdown.
They can't use FedEx to mail,say blood evidence like a blood
draw, some of that stuff istimely and they can't get that
(04:02):
stuff done.
So those are those little thingsthat are causing so much.
Disruption.
There, there are still resourcecrimes being committed, poaching
and motor vehicle accidents thattear up a wetlands area.
And there, there aren't anypeople in that field, the
resource field,'cause they'renot essential.
They can't make assessments, howto mitigate whatever that
(04:25):
resource damage is.
And some of that, again, istimely.
You have to get on that.
If there's oil spills, drugs orhazardous.
Spillage you, you gotta havesomebody out.
And so I guess, we could sayregardless of what a typical
visitor might see, things reallyare chaotic.
Missy Rentz (04:44):
Yeah, I was reading that Great Falls outside of
Washington DC They had cones andbarricades up for people not to
go in, and people were just.
Moving them or parking on thestreet and continuing into the
parks.
And it's interesting because youdo see the, a little bit of
(05:04):
diversity.
The message is the parks areopened, but only essential per
personnel are there yet thatsome parks are fully opened,
some parks are not open at all.
I was just at at Minuteman andit, they had barricades and were
not, it was not accessible andit was closed.
And so there is like these.
These differences why is it thatsome might be partially open or
(05:29):
appear partially open, some mayappear closed.
Why does that happen?
Tara Ross (05:36):
I think it boils down to a couple of things one being
jurisdiction, one being justfunding.
And for example, again I liveoutside the boundary of
Yellowstone.
I spent.
The majority of my career inYellowstone, so that's where my
information is coming from.
So I know that Yellowstone, theyhave a nonprofit called
Yellowstone Foundation who hasdonated funds and they were able
(05:59):
to, and I don't know if as oftoday they're still doing that,
but.
To pay interp rangers to keepvisitor centers open.
And then also Yellowstonefigured out how they can use fee
money, which is also thetechnical term for that fee
money, how it's received whenyou come into the gate.
Welcome to Yellowstone.
You're welcome to Yale,Yosemite.
(06:20):
That money goes into the FederalLands Recreation Enhancement
Act.
Pot, which is F-L-R-E-A, FLORIAas we call it.
So they're able to use somefloria money to pay the law
enforcement rangers and firstresponders.
Like you can't pay everybodythat.
(06:41):
So that revenues used forcritical basic services.
It can be not normal operations,but.
Since they aren't collecting anyfees, which doesn't make sense
to me, we're you can come on inand we're using up all this
funding, but we can't collectany fees to, restore the pot.
So nobody's collecting thosefees.
So that pot's getting depletedand then, a lot people might not
(07:04):
realize this, but more than halfof all of the sites that the
National Park Service managesdon't collect any fees, any
recreation fees under this.
Yeah.
Floria.
And they're just free to enter.
And a lot of park big parks thatdo collect those fees, like a,
they share, they do share themoney percentages go to other
parks, but I don't.
(07:26):
I have a feeling that thoseother parks maybe not have the
big access to, you have,emergency services covered in
their parks.
And also I.
Missy Rentz (07:36):
also, I think I also read I don't know if it was
Utah or California, but some ofthem are getting some state
subsidies to be able to havesome of their services open,
which I think is another waythat some of them are able to
have more services available tothe public.
Tara Ross (07:51):
Yeah, I remember the shutdown.
I've been through a fewshutdowns too.
The shutdown of 2000.
13, I think that was a couple ofweeks long and that all the
parks were closed.
That was still when, when therewas a shutdown.
Everything's closed.
But the Utah, they call it theBig five, the Southern Utah
Parks, Zion, Bryce Canyon allthose, beautiful southern Utah
(08:13):
parks generates a ton of moneyto the communities.
And so the state start, that'sthe first time I remember that
the state did step in and theyfunded.
Everything.
Now, I don't know if they gotreimbursed after the opening.
I don't know how that worked,but they are still doing that.
So that was the precedent forUtah.
(08:33):
But that's when the parksweren't open at all and they're
like we've gotta have theseparks open.
It's important to our community.
So then fast forward to the2018, 19, whatever it was, the
big, the biggest, longestshutdown.
They were still doing that, butin that shutdown, we were forced
to stay open and that it wasvery difficult and that's what
(08:57):
is going on today, but.
How it was told to me or phrasedto me as working as a district
ranger in in the park at thetime was like they didn't want,
the perception of things aren'tworking.
They didn't want the public tofeel it.
And of course, in my mind, I'mlike the public doesn't feel it.
There's never going to, we'renever gonna get Congress to
(09:19):
respond to
Missy Rentz (09:20):
We're feeling it.
We are
Tara Ross (09:21):
Yes.
Missy Rentz (09:22):
Everyone is feeling
Tara Ross (09:23):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
So anyway, yes state and I knowof Utah doing that.
I don't know necessarily otherstates,
Missy Rentz (09:30):
And we're now the second longest shutdown.
And so some of it, to your pointabout, the friends of
organizations and things likethat, some of them can only do
it for a short period of
Tara Ross (09:39):
Exactly.
Exactly.
And then what frustrates me onthat, where a lot of parks do
have those nonprofits that help.
But.
Those nonprofit organizations doa lot for the parks, just in
general, like the funding thatthey spend on that park is very
important, very vital.
If we're sucking up that fundingto just to pay salaries for
(10:03):
rangers or whoever else to stayopen, that's frustrating to me.
Because then the stuff thatthose nonprofits do otherwise to
really help that's gone.
That's depleted.
Missy Rentz (10:14):
Yeah.
Something's not getting done in
Tara Ross (10:16):
Exactly.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Missy Rentz (10:18):
Okay.
We've got the gov, the the kindof avail accessibility or is it
open, is it not issue with theshutdown, but the other issues
that were pre shut down withselling land or granting access
to land for drilling or loggingor roads?
Th that's still happening.
That did not go on hold duringthis shutdown, and it changes
(10:42):
every day.
So I'm asking this but remindingpeople to please remember that
it is Friday, October 24th.
Tara Ross (10:50):
Yeah.
Missy Rentz (10:50):
What's the latest that you are hearing about what
is happening with this?
Somewhat of a dismantling of ourparks and public lands.
Tara Ross (10:59):
Honestly, and you touched on this, I the attacks
on the park service and thepublic lands, I, it's so rapid
fire from all angles.
I cannot, I'm finding it hard tokeep up, but maybe that's the
point.
I don't know, but I.
The thing that's reallyfrustrating me, one of the most
devastating projects to thepublic land is the Ambler Road
(11:22):
project.
It's, that's the gates of theArctic thing, that 211 mile
industrial access road.
Yeah.
Missy Rentz (11:29):
Can you explain that just in a little bit more
detail for listeners
Tara Ross (11:32):
I have had to look this up because I've heard about
this for years, right?
Like they've always wanted toget at the resources in the
gates of the Arctic.
That's in my mind.
That's all.
I thought it was Gates of theArctic.
They're gonna drill drill.
It's the building of this.
Access Road that goes, it's innorthwest Alaska and it goes
from what?
(11:52):
There's an existing highwaycalled the Dalton Highway.
I've never been there, but it'sin the interior of Alaska and
it's supposed to go westwardinto the remote Ambler Mining
District in the Brooks Rangeregion, which is.
I know is so amazing andbeautiful and remote, and so
these mining companies can justaccess large deposits of like
(12:14):
copper, zinc, gold, cobalt, andall these other minerals.
So this road.
The 211 miles would cross landsmanaged by the Bureau of Land
Management, the National ParkService, and Indigenous and
State Lands, and this region.
Right now we don't have hard, wedon't have very many of these.
It's one of the largest intact.
(12:37):
Roadless wilderness areas in theUS probably, I don't know,
compared to the world, maybeeven the world, I don't know.
And those lands are critical forwildlife, for the substance,
subsistence, hunting and fishingof indigenous cultures and it's.
(12:58):
It would bring large trucks,heavy infrastructure, bridges,
culverts, damaging thousands ofstreams and disturbing wetlands
and tundra and permafrost, andit would traverse.
Okay, this is what really justbreaks my heart.
'cause I want one day to seethis.
I wanna witness this, thatmassive migration of the Western
(13:20):
Arctic caribou herd.
I don't know if you've everheard about that, just hundreds
and hundreds, and it wouldtotally disrupt that.
And the rivers and streams thatare important for the fish.
The salmon and whatever else,and the places where the native
communities depend on thatsubsistence.
So I don't know.
It's devastating.
Can we not leave one place inthis world alone?
(13:43):
In Intact?
Missy Rentz (13:44):
Yeah, I'm with you.
And that's interesting.
I'll have to do some research,maybe see if I can find someone
who would do an episode with meon it, because I think.
There's also sometimes the namesare cute or it's happening so
far away that
Tara Ross (13:58):
Yeah.
Yes.
Missy Rentz (13:59):
that with the Roadless rule that it was like,
wait, we're not up in arms aboutthis enough people.
We need to explain to people.
It's an education.
We need to educate people withwhat this really means.
This cute name that was given toa rule or a bill or whatever has
devastating.
Impact if we let it go.
And so that's a I'm glad youbrought that up.
(14:20):
'cause that's something I needto do some research and see if I
can't help tell that story.
But I think too I I guess Ihoped this might be naive of me,
that when.
When the government shut down,all that stuff would have to
slow down and shut down too.
And it's almost like it's givenan opportunity, like a clear
road for more destruction tohappen and more things to just
(14:41):
take place and push forward.
And what is it that we asoutdoor users we, the people can
be doing, should be doing rightnow?
First, when we're visiting ourparks and public lands.
And then second in advocatingfor our parks and public lands.
Tara Ross (15:01):
I actually, I have no affiliation with this
organization whatsoever, butit's where I get my information
and they are phenomenal at it.
And it's the National ParksConservation Association, n
cpa.org.
And I'll go to their website andfind out the latest.
It's sometimes it's hard for meto do that, but I force myself
(15:23):
to do it.
But anyway, the thing that Ilike about them, because you can
just get inundated with stuff onyour social media feed and who's
telling, who's saying what.
Is this true or not?
But they are a phenomenalorganization, but they can also
give you.
Action things, to do as far asaction.
And it could be as simple as allI can do is make a phone call to
(15:44):
my Congress person.
Okay, here's how the easiest wayto find the number.
You don't have to go anywhereelse.
And here's a little script thatyou can use for your own, and
this is what you advocate for.
And I, or, they can even, theyeven have action items, like to
do something even more.
So if you wanna, howeverinvolved you wanna be.
And so I think they arephenomenal resource.
(16:04):
Of information.
Missy Rentz (16:06):
Absolutely, and I'll put a link to them and
reach out to them a as well.
Because I do think everyinstance is different.
And I agree with you that,social media, it's really good
at rallying everybody but it hasgotten to the point where you're
not sure what to believe and
Tara Ross (16:21):
Yeah.
Missy Rentz (16:21):
I'll also put some links to some credible other
accounts that, that I know youguys are engaged with, I engage
with, and so we'll put those onour episode page.
The other question, the otherpart of that question was how do
we visit our parks and publiclands right now?
What do we need to be preparedfor?
Or do we visit them?
Tara Ross (16:39):
I'm torn on that too.
I think about the people who areworking in the parks and I'm
like, just stay away.
Just stay away.
But at the same time, I thinkabout the communities.
Who are depending on, that istheir bread and butter.
I would say Al also I guess I'malso worried about if people
aren't visiting parks, then theyget forgotten about.
And it's so much easier todevastate'em in the ways that
(17:01):
they're being attacked rightnow.
And I think that is, is still afight.
So I think.
If you're gonna go, you justhave to know that you're gonna
have to be self-sufficient.
And I'm gonna guarantee, I'd haI didn't hear your podcast with
John.
I'm gonna go back and listen toit.
He probably said this too.
I dunno.
But just plan to beself-sufficient.
You bring your own water, food,toilet paper you know your own
(17:24):
first aid supplies, make sureyou know where you're going.
Maybe you're on GPS or mapsbecause entrance stations may be
closed.
I don't know if you even can geta park map and.
Just don't even use a garbagecan there.
Just do not use a garbage can.
Take your own trash.
Please take it with you becauseit's, people like, oh, there's a
garbage can.
Oh just don't even do that.
(17:45):
And I don't know, I don't knowabout human waste.
Hopefully maybe bathrooms areopen.
I don't know.
Hopefully I say I used to teasepeople or say.
'cause the lines are getting solong and these traffic jams in
parks and I'm like, Hey, we'rean astronaut diaper.
And because you may not even, beable to find a bathroom.
(18:06):
We have had somebody likerunning out of a car in a
traffic jam to desperate to usea bathroom and they got hit by a
car.
I don't know.
Pecking astronaut diaper.
Missy Rentz (18:15):
I was just in, I was in New England and I'm not I
too am torn.
I really
Tara Ross (18:19):
yeah.
Missy Rentz (18:19):
what to do and every time I'm in a region, I
have to make that decision.
And so I was in New England andmy plan was Acadia.
And I'll tell you, I opted outof Acadia.
Yet I understand that for somepeople that had reservations,
it's hard to get a reservation.
And they plan for ages to go onthat vacation.
And so I think it just dependson your situation.
(18:41):
But like I opted out of Acadia,however, Francis Perkins
National Monument I decided togo to, and I was like one of
three people that were there.
But some of these nationalmonuments and these historic
sites are much smaller.
Like this one probably didn'thave resources anyway.
So new.
And so I think there's options.
And then the other thing I didis I went to a state park.
(19:04):
I went to Camden Hills where Icould see Cadillac Mountain.
And so I think that, it is anindividual decision to do that
soul searching and really thinkabout it.
Tara Ross (19:16):
Yeah.
Missy Rentz (19:17):
And be aware that if you decide to go, by all
means go, but be prepared thatthere are no concessions.
There are, if there arerestrooms, they may not be in
very good shape.
There's not trash pickup.
And just really, this is a timeto, to do your part, to care for
our public land.
Tara Ross (19:35):
Yeah.
I'd also add to that there areprobably emergency services and
it's depending on the park.
If you're going to a big parkthat does do their own they have
their own medics, EMTs,firefighters, et cetera or
whatever.
Just know that.
It could be delayed.
Somebody getting to you could bevery delayed.
And don't do dumb things.
Don't just avoid risky behaviorand maybe I should not go in the
(20:00):
back country if, maybe theforwarding a stream or whatever.
Just know that.
Somebody might not get to you.
And this, what's going on inYosemite and I haven't talked to
anybody, any of my friends thatactually live there.
Is that really happening?
People are, I'm sure they arebase jumping, doing, which is
illegal doing all of thosethings and somebody's not gonna
(20:22):
be able to help you in a lot ofthese parks just, or it's gonna
be delayed.
So just, just don't do dumbstuff.
If you go.
Missy Rentz (20:30):
Which, which is really un unbeknownst to you.
A really good segue to my nextquestion, which is you are a
co-host of Crime Off the Gridpodcast, and it's a fabulous
podcast that talks about thecrimes that happen within parks.
And oftentimes it's not thesalacious crimes, it's the
stupid crimes that happen inparks.
Tara Ross (20:50):
You can't make it up.
Yeah.
Stuff you just, you can't makeup.
Missy Rentz (20:53):
Yeah, the stories are fascinating from insiders
having been law enforcementrangers, what's coming up on
crime off the grid.
Tara Ross (21:00):
Just right now since it's, October, and we are doing
a, and I'm also torn about this,we are doing a, I guess a live
show in Yellowstone at, we wereinvited to go to the Mammoth
Hotel there.
And they are still open.
Their concessions and theirhotels, that are still open
normally as they would be,normally some are closing
(21:21):
because of the season.
But they're having a reallygreat, family thing where trick
or treaters and these spookycabins are decorating and all
this stuff.
And so Nancy and I are gonna betelling true crimey creepy
stories from way back in the dayand and all about.
That happened in Yellowstone.
Other than that, we do have somemore ranger towels planned,
(21:44):
which people tell us that'stheir favorite when a ranger
comes on and tells their storyand they could be anything as
those dumb crimes to a hugeinvestigation and they're just
anything.
So yeah, we're still gonnacontinue doing that.
And we got ahead.
But then she and I both weregone on vacation and so now
we're like
Missy Rentz (22:02):
Play and
Tara Ross (22:02):
Breaking even now.
Yeah.
Missy Rentz (22:04):
Yeah, we will definitely get you on the books
for the Parks podcast'cause Iwould love to talk to both of
you and
Tara Ross (22:09):
yes.
We're excited.
Missy Rentz (22:10):
stories that you share.
Thank you for coming on and justgiving us an update.
The longer this goes on, themore I think the need for
getting insider information andyou are certainly an insider, so
I really appreciate you joining
Tara Ross (22:22):
Thanks and thank you for being such a voice for the
information during this time andthe other times.
I love what you do and how youget people interested in going
to national parks or any parkand getting outdoors.
It's so important and we reallyappreciate you too.
Missy Rentz (22:37):
Thank you.
Thank you.
That's it for today's episode.
Tara, thank you so much forjoining us, and until next time,
we'll see you in the parks.
Thanks for listening.
If you enjoyed today's episode,please be sure to like and share
on your favorite podcastplatform.
Music for the parks podcast isperformed and produced by Porter
Hardy.
For more information, pleasefollow us on Instagram at the
(23:01):
parks podcast.
Or visit ourwebsite@theparkspodcast.com.
Before we begin today's episode,I just want to remind you that
this episode aired on Monday,October 27th, 2025.
It's a conversation about ourgovernment shutdown.
Please note that informationwill change on a day-to-day
basis, keep in mind the datethat it aired.
While you're listening, enjoythe episode.
Missy Rentz (00:22):
We are now in day 27 of the federal government
shutdown.
What does that mean for ourparks and public lands?
Join me as we get an insider'sperspective to our parks and the
government shutdown.
I'm your host, Missy Rents, andthis is the Parks podcast.
I'm very grateful to Tara Rossfor being with me today.
(00:43):
Tara is a retired national parkservice law enforcement ranger,
and she's the co-host of TheCrime Off the Grid podcast.
Tara, welcome to the Parkspodcast.
Tara Ross (00:53):
Thank you for having me.
Missy Rentz (00:55):
I want to do an update on the government
shutdown and its impact on ournational parks and public lands.
We had John Goodwin, who is afriend of both of ours on.
Just days after the governmentshut down started and we talked
about what does it mean and whatshould guests be prepared for?
And a little bit of thatconversation was a guessing, but
(01:16):
it was educated guessing.
And so now we are.
Let's see, we're recording thison Friday, October 24th, so
we're like 25 days into theshutdown, and reality has struck
and in some situations quitehard.
What is the status of the parksduring these shutdowns?
Tara Ross (01:36):
As it pertains to individual parks, I think the
answer to what's the status isit depends, and I hate, that's a
horrible answer, mandating thatthe parks stay open, has left
some parks to scramble with, howdo they protect the resource?
How do they protect the public?
And as far as the status of theparks, one thing I've seen, as
(01:57):
far as comments, we see commentson social media and like we just
went to fill in the blank parkand it was just fine.
It was a lovely trip.
Or some people say, see theparks are, we're overstaffed
anyway to begin with, so this isjust cutting the waste.
But what they aren't seeing ishow much harder the Rangers are
having to work to do their ownjob, because now they have to
(02:18):
do.
Other jobs of many supportpositions, like some maintenance
duties.
Not all maintenance people areconsidered essential.
They have to do payroll duties,they have to do resource
management if they can squeezethat in other administrative
jobs.
So anyway, here's here's anexample.
In Yellowstone, for example, orother parks, snowy conditions,
(02:39):
it's winter in a lot of parksalready, like Yellowstone and
Rangers have to get their snowtires on to do their work
safely.
And so the mechanics that dothat are on furlough so they
can't get their tire switched.
And so I know that thishappened.
In Yellowstone, they had to callsomeone back for one or two days
to put snow tires on so that therangers can respond to
(03:02):
emergencies safely.
And that just creates havoc.
And those people are not gonnareceive a paycheck until all
this is over.
Those support people, thosepeople who are furloughed, if
they are, hopefully they do getback pay.
And if you don't mind, could Igive you another example?
Missy Rentz (03:17):
Yes, please.
I love it.
This is helpful to all.
All of us just to hear what'shappening.
Tara Ross (03:21):
yeah, some behind the scenes stuff that people don't
know, I think.
Rangers are still out theregetting, drunk drivers off the
road.
They are still having to respondto and investigate crimes
against people.
Those s.
Sexual assaults and domesticviolence cases and homicide and
those kinds of things.
And in many of those cases, theycollect evidence.
(03:41):
So they're still, those peopleare still working and, but they
have to collect evidence andthey're running into issues
trying to get evidence to crimelabs.
They don't have an avenue tomail.
Their credit cards are shutdown.
They can't use FedEx to mail,say blood evidence like a blood
draw, some of that stuff istimely and they can't get that
(04:02):
stuff done.
So those are those little thingsthat are causing so much.
Disruption.
There, there are still resourcecrimes being committed, poaching
and motor vehicle accidents thattear up a wetlands area.
And there, there aren't anypeople in that field, the
resource field,'cause they'renot essential.
They can't make assessments, howto mitigate whatever that
(04:25):
resource damage is.
And some of that, again, istimely.
You have to get on that.
If there's oil spills, drugs orhazardous.
Spillage you, you gotta havesomebody out.
And so I guess, we could sayregardless of what a typical
visitor might see, things reallyare chaotic.
Missy Rentz (04:44):
Yeah, I was reading that Great Falls outside of
Washington DC They had cones andbarricades up for people not to
go in, and people were just.
Moving them or parking on thestreet and continuing into the
parks.
And it's interesting because youdo see the, a little bit of
(05:04):
diversity.
The message is the parks areopened, but only essential per
personnel are there yet thatsome parks are fully opened,
some parks are not open at all.
I was just at at Minuteman andit, they had barricades and were
not, it was not accessible andit was closed.
And so there is like these.
These differences why is it thatsome might be partially open or
(05:29):
appear partially open, some mayappear closed.
Why does that happen?
Tara Ross (05:36):
I think it boils down to a couple of things one being
jurisdiction, one being justfunding.
And for example, again I liveoutside the boundary of
Yellowstone.
I spent.
The majority of my career inYellowstone, so that's where my
information is coming from.
So I know that Yellowstone, theyhave a nonprofit called
Yellowstone Foundation who hasdonated funds and they were able
(05:59):
to, and I don't know if as oftoday they're still doing that,
but.
To pay interp rangers to keepvisitor centers open.
And then also Yellowstonefigured out how they can use fee
money, which is also thetechnical term for that fee
money, how it's received whenyou come into the gate.
Welcome to Yellowstone.
You're welcome to Yale,Yosemite.
(06:20):
That money goes into the FederalLands Recreation Enhancement
Act.
Pot, which is F-L-R-E-A, FLORIAas we call it.
So they're able to use somefloria money to pay the law
enforcement rangers and firstresponders.
Like you can't pay everybodythat.
(06:41):
So that revenues used forcritical basic services.
It can be not normal operations,but.
Since they aren't collecting anyfees, which doesn't make sense
to me, we're you can come on inand we're using up all this
funding, but we can't collectany fees to, restore the pot.
So nobody's collecting thosefees.
So that pot's getting depletedand then, a lot people might not
(07:04):
realize this, but more than halfof all of the sites that the
National Park Service managesdon't collect any fees, any
recreation fees under this.
Yeah.
Floria.
And they're just free to enter.
And a lot of park big parks thatdo collect those fees, like a,
they share, they do share themoney percentages go to other
parks, but I don't.
(07:26):
I have a feeling that thoseother parks maybe not have the
big access to, you have,emergency services covered in
their parks.
And also I.
Missy Rentz (07:36):
also, I think I also read I don't know if it was
Utah or California, but some ofthem are getting some state
subsidies to be able to havesome of their services open,
which I think is another waythat some of them are able to
have more services available tothe public.
Tara Ross (07:51):
Yeah, I remember the shutdown.
I've been through a fewshutdowns too.
The shutdown of 2000.
13, I think that was a couple ofweeks long and that all the
parks were closed.
That was still when, when therewas a shutdown.
Everything's closed.
But the Utah, they call it theBig five, the Southern Utah
Parks, Zion, Bryce Canyon allthose, beautiful southern Utah
(08:13):
parks generates a ton of moneyto the communities.
And so the state start, that'sthe first time I remember that
the state did step in and theyfunded.
Everything.
Now, I don't know if they gotreimbursed after the opening.
I don't know how that worked,but they are still doing that.
So that was the precedent forUtah.
(08:33):
But that's when the parksweren't open at all and they're
like we've gotta have theseparks open.
It's important to our community.
So then fast forward to the2018, 19, whatever it was, the
big, the biggest, longestshutdown.
They were still doing that, butin that shutdown, we were forced
to stay open and that it wasvery difficult and that's what
(08:57):
is going on today, but.
How it was told to me or phrasedto me as working as a district
ranger in in the park at thetime was like they didn't want,
the perception of things aren'tworking.
They didn't want the public tofeel it.
And of course, in my mind, I'mlike the public doesn't feel it.
There's never going to, we'renever gonna get Congress to
(09:19):
respond to
Missy Rentz (09:20):
We're feeling it.
We are
Tara Ross (09:21):
Yes.
Missy Rentz (09:22):
Everyone is feeling
Tara Ross (09:23):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
So anyway, yes state and I knowof Utah doing that.
I don't know necessarily otherstates,
Missy Rentz (09:30):
And we're now the second longest shutdown.
And so some of it, to your pointabout, the friends of
organizations and things likethat, some of them can only do
it for a short period of
Tara Ross (09:39):
Exactly.
Exactly.
And then what frustrates me onthat, where a lot of parks do
have those nonprofits that help.
But.
Those nonprofit organizations doa lot for the parks, just in
general, like the funding thatthey spend on that park is very
important, very vital.
If we're sucking up that fundingto just to pay salaries for
(10:03):
rangers or whoever else to stayopen, that's frustrating to me.
Because then the stuff thatthose nonprofits do otherwise to
really help that's gone.
That's depleted.
Missy Rentz (10:14):
Yeah.
Something's not getting done in
Tara Ross (10:16):
Exactly.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Missy Rentz (10:18):
Okay.
We've got the gov, the the kindof avail accessibility or is it
open, is it not issue with theshutdown, but the other issues
that were pre shut down withselling land or granting access
to land for drilling or loggingor roads?
Th that's still happening.
That did not go on hold duringthis shutdown, and it changes
(10:42):
every day.
So I'm asking this but remindingpeople to please remember that
it is Friday, October 24th.
Tara Ross (10:50):
Yeah.
Missy Rentz (10:50):
What's the latest that you are hearing about what
is happening with this?
Somewhat of a dismantling of ourparks and public lands.
Tara Ross (10:59):
Honestly, and you touched on this, I the attacks
on the park service and thepublic lands, I, it's so rapid
fire from all angles.
I cannot, I'm finding it hard tokeep up, but maybe that's the
point.
I don't know, but I.
The thing that's reallyfrustrating me, one of the most
devastating projects to thepublic land is the Ambler Road
(11:22):
project.
It's, that's the gates of theArctic thing, that 211 mile
industrial access road.
Yeah.
Missy Rentz (11:29):
Can you explain that just in a little bit more
detail for listeners
Tara Ross (11:32):
I have had to look this up because I've heard about
this for years, right?
Like they've always wanted toget at the resources in the
gates of the Arctic.
That's in my mind.
That's all.
I thought it was Gates of theArctic.
They're gonna drill drill.
It's the building of this.
Access Road that goes, it's innorthwest Alaska and it goes
from what?
(11:52):
There's an existing highwaycalled the Dalton Highway.
I've never been there, but it'sin the interior of Alaska and
it's supposed to go westwardinto the remote Ambler Mining
District in the Brooks Rangeregion, which is.
I know is so amazing andbeautiful and remote, and so
these mining companies can justaccess large deposits of like
(12:14):
copper, zinc, gold, cobalt, andall these other minerals.
So this road.
The 211 miles would cross landsmanaged by the Bureau of Land
Management, the National ParkService, and Indigenous and
State Lands, and this region.
Right now we don't have hard, wedon't have very many of these.
It's one of the largest intact.
(12:37):
Roadless wilderness areas in theUS probably, I don't know,
compared to the world, maybeeven the world, I don't know.
And those lands are critical forwildlife, for the substance,
subsistence, hunting and fishingof indigenous cultures and it's.
(12:58):
It would bring large trucks,heavy infrastructure, bridges,
culverts, damaging thousands ofstreams and disturbing wetlands
and tundra and permafrost, andit would traverse.
Okay, this is what really justbreaks my heart.
'cause I want one day to seethis.
I wanna witness this, thatmassive migration of the Western
(13:20):
Arctic caribou herd.
I don't know if you've everheard about that, just hundreds
and hundreds, and it wouldtotally disrupt that.
And the rivers and streams thatare important for the fish.
The salmon and whatever else,and the places where the native
communities depend on thatsubsistence.
So I don't know.
It's devastating.
Can we not leave one place inthis world alone?
(13:43):
In Intact?
Missy Rentz (13:44):
Yeah, I'm with you.
And that's interesting.
I'll have to do some research,maybe see if I can find someone
who would do an episode with meon it, because I think.
There's also sometimes the namesare cute or it's happening so
far away that
Tara Ross (13:58):
Yeah.
Yes.
Missy Rentz (13:59):
that with the Roadless rule that it was like,
wait, we're not up in arms aboutthis enough people.
We need to explain to people.
It's an education.
We need to educate people withwhat this really means.
This cute name that was given toa rule or a bill or whatever has
devastating.
Impact if we let it go.
And so that's a I'm glad youbrought that up.
(14:20):
'cause that's something I needto do some research and see if I
can't help tell that story.
But I think too I I guess Ihoped this might be naive of me,
that when.
When the government shut down,all that stuff would have to
slow down and shut down too.
And it's almost like it's givenan opportunity, like a clear
road for more destruction tohappen and more things to just
(14:41):
take place and push forward.
And what is it that we asoutdoor users we, the people can
be doing, should be doing rightnow?
First, when we're visiting ourparks and public lands.
And then second in advocatingfor our parks and public lands.
Tara Ross (15:01):
I actually, I have no affiliation with this
organization whatsoever, butit's where I get my information
and they are phenomenal at it.
And it's the National ParksConservation Association, n
cpa.org.
And I'll go to their website andfind out the latest.
It's sometimes it's hard for meto do that, but I force myself
(15:23):
to do it.
But anyway, the thing that Ilike about them, because you can
just get inundated with stuff onyour social media feed and who's
telling, who's saying what.
Is this true or not?
But they are a phenomenalorganization, but they can also
give you.
Action things, to do as far asaction.
And it could be as simple as allI can do is make a phone call to
(15:44):
my Congress person.
Okay, here's how the easiest wayto find the number.
You don't have to go anywhereelse.
And here's a little script thatyou can use for your own, and
this is what you advocate for.
And I, or, they can even, theyeven have action items, like to
do something even more.
So if you wanna, howeverinvolved you wanna be.
And so I think they arephenomenal resource.
(16:04):
Of information.
Missy Rentz (16:06):
Absolutely, and I'll put a link to them and
reach out to them a as well.
Because I do think everyinstance is different.
And I agree with you that,social media, it's really good
at rallying everybody but it hasgotten to the point where you're
not sure what to believe and
Tara Ross (16:21):
Yeah.
Missy Rentz (16:21):
I'll also put some links to some credible other
accounts that, that I know youguys are engaged with, I engage
with, and so we'll put those onour episode page.
The other question, the otherpart of that question was how do
we visit our parks and publiclands right now?
What do we need to be preparedfor?
Or do we visit them?
Tara Ross (16:39):
I'm torn on that too.
I think about the people who areworking in the parks and I'm
like, just stay away.
Just stay away.
But at the same time, I thinkabout the communities.
Who are depending on, that istheir bread and butter.
I would say Al also I guess I'malso worried about if people
aren't visiting parks, then theyget forgotten about.
And it's so much easier todevastate'em in the ways that
(17:01):
they're being attacked rightnow.
And I think that is, is still afight.
So I think.
If you're gonna go, you justhave to know that you're gonna
have to be self-sufficient.
And I'm gonna guarantee, I'd haI didn't hear your podcast with
John.
I'm gonna go back and listen toit.
He probably said this too.
I dunno.
But just plan to beself-sufficient.
You bring your own water, food,toilet paper you know your own
(17:24):
first aid supplies, make sureyou know where you're going.
Maybe you're on GPS or mapsbecause entrance stations may be
closed.
I don't know if you even can geta park map and.
Just don't even use a garbagecan there.
Just do not use a garbage can.
Take your own trash.
Please take it with you becauseit's, people like, oh, there's a
garbage can.
Oh just don't even do that.
(17:45):
And I don't know, I don't knowabout human waste.
Hopefully maybe bathrooms areopen.
I don't know.
Hopefully I say I used to teasepeople or say.
'cause the lines are getting solong and these traffic jams in
parks and I'm like, Hey, we'rean astronaut diaper.
And because you may not even, beable to find a bathroom.
(18:06):
We have had somebody likerunning out of a car in a
traffic jam to desperate to usea bathroom and they got hit by a
car.
I don't know.
Pecking astronaut diaper.
Missy Rentz (18:15):
I was just in, I was in New England and I'm not I
too am torn.
I really
Tara Ross (18:19):
yeah.
Missy Rentz (18:19):
what to do and every time I'm in a region, I
have to make that decision.
And so I was in New England andmy plan was Acadia.
And I'll tell you, I opted outof Acadia.
Yet I understand that for somepeople that had reservations,
it's hard to get a reservation.
And they plan for ages to go onthat vacation.
And so I think it just dependson your situation.
(18:41):
But like I opted out of Acadia,however, Francis Perkins
National Monument I decided togo to, and I was like one of
three people that were there.
But some of these nationalmonuments and these historic
sites are much smaller.
Like this one probably didn'thave resources anyway.
So new.
And so I think there's options.
And then the other thing I didis I went to a state park.
(19:04):
I went to Camden Hills where Icould see Cadillac Mountain.
And so I think that, it is anindividual decision to do that
soul searching and really thinkabout it.
Tara Ross (19:16):
Yeah.
Missy Rentz (19:17):
And be aware that if you decide to go, by all
means go, but be prepared thatthere are no concessions.
There are, if there arerestrooms, they may not be in
very good shape.
There's not trash pickup.
And just really, this is a timeto, to do your part, to care for
our public land.
Tara Ross (19:35):
Yeah.
I'd also add to that there areprobably emergency services and
it's depending on the park.
If you're going to a big parkthat does do their own they have
their own medics, EMTs,firefighters, et cetera or
whatever.
Just know that.
It could be delayed.
Somebody getting to you could bevery delayed.
And don't do dumb things.
Don't just avoid risky behaviorand maybe I should not go in the
(20:00):
back country if, maybe theforwarding a stream or whatever.
Just know that.
Somebody might not get to you.
And this, what's going on inYosemite and I haven't talked to
anybody, any of my friends thatactually live there.
Is that really happening?
People are, I'm sure they arebase jumping, doing, which is
illegal doing all of thosethings and somebody's not gonna
(20:22):
be able to help you in a lot ofthese parks just, or it's gonna
be delayed.
So just, just don't do dumbstuff.
If you go.
Missy Rentz (20:30):
Which, which is really un unbeknownst to you.
A really good segue to my nextquestion, which is you are a
co-host of Crime Off the Gridpodcast, and it's a fabulous
podcast that talks about thecrimes that happen within parks.
And oftentimes it's not thesalacious crimes, it's the
stupid crimes that happen inparks.
Tara Ross (20:50):
You can't make it up.
Yeah.
Stuff you just, you can't makeup.
Missy Rentz (20:53):
Yeah, the stories are fascinating from insiders
having been law enforcementrangers, what's coming up on
crime off the grid.
Tara Ross (21:00):
Just right now since it's, October, and we are doing
a, and I'm also torn about this,we are doing a, I guess a live
show in Yellowstone at, we wereinvited to go to the Mammoth
Hotel there.
And they are still open.
Their concessions and theirhotels, that are still open
normally as they would be,normally some are closing
(21:21):
because of the season.
But they're having a reallygreat, family thing where trick
or treaters and these spookycabins are decorating and all
this stuff.
And so Nancy and I are gonna betelling true crimey creepy
stories from way back in the dayand and all about.
That happened in Yellowstone.
Other than that, we do have somemore ranger towels planned,
(21:44):
which people tell us that'stheir favorite when a ranger
comes on and tells their storyand they could be anything as
those dumb crimes to a hugeinvestigation and they're just
anything.
So yeah, we're still gonnacontinue doing that.
And we got ahead.
But then she and I both weregone on vacation and so now
we're like
Missy Rentz (22:02):
Play and
Tara Ross (22:02):
Breaking even now.
Yeah.
Missy Rentz (22:04):
Yeah, we will definitely get you on the books
for the Parks podcast'cause Iwould love to talk to both of
you and
Tara Ross (22:09):
yes.
We're excited.
Missy Rentz (22:10):
stories that you share.
Thank you for coming on and justgiving us an update.
The longer this goes on, themore I think the need for
getting insider information andyou are certainly an insider, so
I really appreciate you joining
Tara Ross (22:22):
Thanks and thank you for being such a voice for the
information during this time andthe other times.
I love what you do and how youget people interested in going
to national parks or any parkand getting outdoors.
It's so important and we reallyappreciate you too.
Missy Rentz (22:37):
Thank you.
Thank you.
That's it for today's episode.
Tara, thank you so much forjoining us, and until next time,
we'll see you in the parks.
Thanks for listening.
If you enjoyed today's episode,please be sure to like and share
on your favorite podcastplatform.
Music for the parks podcast isperformed and produced by Porter
Hardy.
For more information, pleasefollow us on Instagram at the
(23:01):
parks podcast.
Or visit ourwebsite@theparkspodcast.com.
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