December 3, 2024 • 40 mins
What is it like to be a member of the elite force known as CJIRU? Why switch from Special Operations Forces Operator to Pilot? What challenges and opportunities do the trades have in common, and what useful traits overlap? Tune in this week as we chat with Ben, a former Special Operations Forces Operator who switched to the pilot trade, currently undergoing pilot training. We'll talk about what has been easy, what has been a challenge, and whether or not there is a large culture shock in switching between these diverse trades.
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Bryan (00:29):
Alright. We're ready for departure here at the Pilot
Project Podcast, the best sourcefor stories and advice from the
pilots of the RCAF. I'm yourhost, Brian Morrison. With me
today is phase 1 student andformer member of the Canadian
Joint Incident Response Unit,better known as CJIRU, Ben. Ben,
welcome to the show, and thanksfor taking some time away from
your studies.
Thanks for having me,
Ben (00:48):
and thanks for running this podcast. I found it quite useful
to hear experiences in eachfleet as I'm deciding which way
I'd like my career to go.
Bryan (00:54):
Yeah. For sure, man. That's awesome. So before we
start, let's go over Ben's bio.A quick note, we're probably
about to use the acronym CBRN abunch, and that stands for
chemical, biological,radiological, and nuclear.
Ben joined the Canadian ArmedForces in 2,005 as a reserve
infanteer. After completing amath degree and being promoted
to master corporal, he attendedCJIRU selection in 2010. Once
(01:18):
selected and after completingthe operator course, he
component transferred to theregular force and was posted to
CJIRU as a CBRN operator, whichwas a new trade at the time. Ben
deployed to the Middle East in2013 and 2015 on missions to
train local forces as well as toOp IMPACT in Iraq in 2018 as the
Canadian Special OperationForces CBRN team lead. After
(01:40):
that, he was promoted tosergeant and worked in training
for a few years, developing andrunning several trade specific
courses.
In 2023, he occupationtransferred to pilot through the
special commissioning plan andwas attached posted to 426
squadron in Trenton whileawaiting training. He completed
phase 1 training in early 2024.Today, we will be talking a
little bit about Ben's time insiege Iru, his experience with
(02:02):
the special commissioning plan,and how this all comes together
on phase 1 flight training. Sobefore we start, can you give us
a quick outline of the unitsthat are part of Canadian
Special Operations ForcesCommand or CAN SOFCOM? Sure.
So I'm speaking away from
Ben (02:16):
my personal experience today and not as military
spokesperson. An OPSEC oroperational security is always a
factor when discussingCANSOfcom, so I'll need to keep
some of my answers quite broad.If you want more specific
information, then contact aCANSOfcom recruiter or a public
affairs officer. CANSOfcom hasseveral units, but they all work
together quite a lot and themain tasks don't capture all of
what each unit does. Joint TaskForce 2 or JTF 2's main task is
(02:40):
counterterrorism.
The Canadian Special OperationsRegiment or CSOR is focused
towards working in austereenvironments integrating with
local partner forces. TheCanadian Joint Incident Response
Unit or CJIRI's main task isanything involving chemical,
biological, radiological, andnuclear threats, also known as
CBRN, in special operationsmissions. 427 Special Operations
Squadron, probably what yourlisteners are most familiar
(03:01):
with, is an air force unitembedded into CAN SOFCOM that
provides precision lift and intoother aviation effects. There's
also the soft school, CSOTC, andthe command headquarters. In my
experience, most operations andmuch of the training involves
personnel from multiple units.
Teams are built based on taskrequirements and each unit has
different capabilities tocontribute.
Bryan (03:21):
So obviously, from what you've said, you had a previous
career in the forces. Whatattracted you to the military in
the first place and what led youto go for CJIRU?
Ben (03:29):
So I joined the reserves initially because I needed to
make money for school and itseemed like a good option. I
didn't expect it to turn into acareer. I worked in the infantry
reserves throughout my time inschool and really enjoyed it.
And then shortly beforegraduating, I started recruiting
session for CJIRU. It seemedlike a great balance between
physical tactical work withmental and problem solving
components, which I was quiteinterested in.
(03:50):
So I joined the regular forcespecifically to go to CGIRU.
Bryan (03:53):
Can you tell us a little more about what CGIRU does
exactly?
Ben (03:57):
I can tell you a little bit. CGyru's main focus is
providing CBRN capabilitieseither as part of domestic
operations with the RCMP,counter terror operations with
other care and soft comm units,or abroad in a variety of
environments or roles. Thebaseline level of my training
was force protection, preventingpeople from being impacted by
CBRN threats or mitigating theeffects. But quickly the focus
of my training was shiftedtowards gathering well
(04:18):
documented high quality materialthat could be used for evidence
for intelligence. Afterdeveloping these expertise, we
found lots of work outside ofCBRN specific tasks.
In short, I describe it asbattlefield forensics with the
capability to work with CBRNagents. Very cool.
Bryan (04:34):
Do you have a story about a challenging mission or
situation overseas with CGIRA?
Ben (04:39):
Yeah. In my experience, responsibility is delegated much
lower in soft than elsewhere.And at times that's even more
true at CGIARU since many oftheir jobs are done with very
small teams. On Op Impact, I wasonly in charge of a few people
on paper, but as a mastercorporal, I was a a ground force
commander for a platoon minussized team during a mission. And
I regularly had meetings orcalls with external task force
(04:59):
commanders or staff officers athigher headquarters.
There's also the fact that inthat role, you're the expert.
Nobody else apart from your teamhas any training or experience
in the area. There's very littlereal world experience within the
field. Fortunately, Suburinagents haven't been used that
much on the battlefield sinceWorld War 1, but that also means
you don't have generations ofexperience to go off of. I
(05:21):
needed to make timely decisionsthat could have impacts on the
safety of our team and causemuch higher level issues, which
made the job stressful, but alsovery rewarding.
First off, I had excellentleadership that was very open to
mentoring me through the areas Ihad relatively little experience
with. And since we were a uniquecapability, everything we did
felt quite relevant.
Bryan (05:37):
Oh, that's awesome. So it's a big change to go from
that to flying. What brought youto aviation and why did you
decide to try to become a pilot?
Ben (05:48):
So while I really enjoyed my time at CGIARU, I was just
ready for something different.And as I was looking around at
the different options and stuff,my priority was to find
something that would give meeasily transferable skills to
civilian life when that timeeventually comes. The
combination of mental and handsand feet skills that originally
interested me in CGIARU seem tobe a large part of the pilot
trade as well. I also reallyenjoy being part of mission
(06:08):
planning than going out the doorwith a small team to accomplish
a tangible task. Aviation ingeneral is certainly very
interesting, but for me, it'sthe job of the military pilot
that really drew me in.
Bryan (06:18):
So it's more about being a military pilot for you than it
is about necessarily aviation inand of itself.
Ben (06:24):
Yeah. I wouldn't say I had a, like, particular interest in
aviation before I, like, pickedthis as a career I was
interested in and wanted topursue it.
Bryan (06:32):
It's more about, like, the skills and challenges that
this involves.
Ben (06:35):
Yeah. Exactly. And the types of missions that you might
be able to go and do. Yeah. Allplatforms do some pretty cool
stuff once in a while.
Bryan (06:42):
A 100%. Yeah. So you commissioned through the special
commissioning plan or SCP. Canyou tell us more about the SCP
process and how you went fromCBRN op to pilot?
Ben (06:53):
I'll preface this by saying talk to your local personnel
selection officer or PSO andread the directives. I'm by no
means an expert and things mighthave changed since I went
through. When I applied, therewas 3 ways for an NCM to become
a pilot. ETP NCM, where you do auniversity degree full time paid
for by the military prior tostarting pilot training, and
you're also paid your salaryduring that time. SEP, which is
for NCMs like myself thatalready had an applicable degree
(07:16):
and COTP, which involves doing auniversity degree part time over
several years during and afteryour trades training.
This is generally put down asthe second choice for UTP NCM
candidates. And at the time Iapplied was only open for 3
trades. The process itself ispretty simple. Start by talking
to your base PSO to get thetimelines. Generally
applications are due sometime inthe fall.
(07:37):
There's some paperwork to fillout chain of command comments
and an aircrew medical. You loadit on aircrew selection in
Trenton at some point, and ifsuccessful complete a more
in-depth medical in Toronto.After that, it's just waiting.
Overall, the process is prettysimple. The only part that takes
much effort is preparing foraircrew selection, but they
provide plenty of information onwhat types of things to practice
and it can fit into gaps in anotherwise busy schedule.
(07:58):
I used an app called CBAT orCBAT, and some other memory and
math games to prepare.
Bryan (08:03):
I've heard from a lot of people who are getting ready for
aircrew selection that CBAT is asuper valuable tool to use in
your preparation.
Ben (08:11):
Yeah. I'm not sure on this. It's my understanding that the
selection kind of program we useis very similar to the Brit one.
And I think that app was builtfor the Brits. Okay.
So it works like pretty well asa tool. But, yeah, I found it
valuable.
Bryan (08:24):
Yeah. That checks out. Was it competitive to get the
SEP and make the switch topilot?
Ben (08:30):
Yes and no. My understanding is you're only
competing against other SEPcandidates. And since there's
generally not many candidates orspots, it can change quite a lot
year to year. If there's onespot in one candidate, it's
easy. If there's 4 candidates,it's very competitive.
The 1st year I applied, therewas only one spot for SEP and I
didn't get it. Ironically, if Ididn't have a degree, I would
have had a better chance sinceI'd be applying to a different
(08:51):
program with more spots. I didsome policy reading before
reapplying, and the COTP programdid not specifically exclude
NCMs that already have degrees.So I put that down as my second
choice when I reapplied. I endedup getting an SCP spot that
year.
So I'm not sure how it wouldhave worked if I'd been in and
they went to my second choice ofCOTP, but it's worth
investigating if you're going toapply through the SCP route.
Bryan (09:11):
Yeah, It's definitely sounds like it's worth having
that in your back pocket.
Ben (09:14):
Yeah. Even my PSO wasn't sure that was allowed, but I,
you know, I kind of like said,here's the policy. And he said,
it looks like it's allowed. Sowe put it down. And as I said,
I'm not sure how that would haveworked out in the end, but it's
worth a shot.
Bryan (09:27):
Well, in the worst case scenario is that they
Ben (09:30):
say no.
Bryan (09:30):
Right? At least you have that
Ben (09:32):
backup option. Yeah. Because the first time I
applied, I only put one choice.So the second
Bryan (09:36):
time I put 2 and yeah. So you got through the selection
process, you made it to flighttraining. How has your
experience been on phase 1? It's
Ben (09:43):
been really good. In general, we're treated very much
like adults. You have thematerial and your schedule and
however you wanna get yourstudying and prep done is up to
you. I think it makes a lot ofsense doing it that way. It
seems like disciplined selfstudy is a large part of the
pilot profession writ largeoutside of formal courseware.
I can see how that might bechallenging for people newer to
the military though. Most pilotcandidates have done university
(10:04):
and are going to be proficientat studying and learning theory,
but that may not be the case forlearning and solidifying hands
and feet skills or rapiddecision making. In my
experience on entry leveltraining, both in soft and
infantry, there's lots of focuson repetition of the basics and
how to build good muscle memory,both through deliberate practice
and visualization. And thataspect is largely left up to the
student to figure out forthemselves on phase 1, and maybe
(10:25):
something they don't have muchexperience with unless they
played competitive sports orsomething similar.
Bryan (10:30):
Yeah. I think you're right. Most people who come to
flight training at some pointhave already like, even just to
get through the various tests ofselection, they've done a bunch
of self study and have gottenthemselves into the book
somewhat. But that learning thatphysical side of flying and the
hands and feet skills, that's,like, probably a new skill set
(10:50):
unless, like you, they had aprevious trade that involved
that or, like you said, maybesports or something like that.
That's actually a really goodexample as well.
Ben (10:57):
Yeah. Sometimes you think, like, I am a fast learner, but
there's different types oflearning. And you might have the
ability, but you might not havethe techniques or procedures or
or experience to learn differenttypes of skills.
Bryan (11:08):
Yeah. I think it's probably really important to
show up humble with that inmind. Like, show up realizing
that this is a new skill set.It's gonna have a learning curve
to it. I'm not gonna get thisright out of the gate kind of
thing.
Ben (11:21):
Yeah. You need to be prepared that you might have
been really good at everythingyou've done thus far, but you're
gonna run into something you'renot good at and and be able to
work through that.
Bryan (11:29):
Yeah. For sure. And and that's actually true of flight
training as time goes on becauseevery step you make it, you're
into another step of peoplewho've made it this far. And
now, like, you're getting into agroup of people where, like,
yeah, everybody has been amongstthe best of their application
pool and then of making itthrough the previous phase and
all those things. Right?
So it's just something that astime goes on, you have to become
more and more humble. Yeah.Speaking of the learning curve,
(11:52):
have you found it to be steep?
Ben (11:54):
Yes, but manageable. The full flying course is less than
15 hours unless you need reviewflights or extra practice or
something. So there really isn'tmuch time to solidify skills
before learning the next thingand you're expected to improve
fairly quickly with that minimalpractice. That being said, it
seems like the point of thecourse is just to lay, the
foundation for future training,not to make you an expert flying
(12:15):
this aircraft. There's timeswhere I felt like I was barely
keeping up, but really that'sjust a sign of course
efficiency.
It's a lot of fun, but at theend of the day, it is a job. So
if it feels like a lot of work,that's okay.
Bryan (12:25):
Yeah. I think you've said a couple important things there.
First of all, that feeling ofbarely keeping up, like you
said, it's pretty muchintentionally designed that way.
You use the term courseefficiency, and that's exactly
what it is. These courses don'thave any fat.
That's all been trimmed. It'sliterally, like, what is the
fastest pace that we can safelyget people from start to end and
(12:48):
have them be proficient all theway through without having a
bunch of people fail becausethis is too fast paced.
Ben (12:53):
Yeah, exactly. If you want to do it at an enjoyable pace,
you're more than welcome to payfor it on your own. Yeah. But
since it's a job, you need to,like, do it at the fastest pace
that's reasonable.
Bryan (13:03):
That's right. And, like, as much as the flying, there are
gonna be days where it's, like,so fun. Like, I had an
instructor who used to say,Pete's working for 11. When we
he's walking back from a flight,and I'd be like,
Ben (13:13):
yeah.
Bryan (13:13):
That that's right. This is great. But there are days
where it is it is work, eitherwhen you're studying on the
ground or sometimes you'll comedown from a flight and you are
working your butt off the wholetime just to keep up, and it is
work sometimes for sure.
Ben (13:25):
And if you show up with that, kind of intention that,
like, this is work and this ismy job and I need to approach it
that way, and then it ends upbeing fun, that's great. But if
it ends up being a bit of agrind, that's fine too.
Bryan (13:36):
Yeah. Absolutely. Can you take us through a day in the
life of a phase one student?Sure.
Ben (13:42):
The course starts with around 2 weeks of ground school,
most of which is self study.They give you a laptop with all
the lessons and you go throughthem at your own pace with some
in person review lessons andother topics throughout. There's
a test at the end and while it'snot easy, there's plenty of time
and material to be wellprepared. After that, you
generally stay with the sameflight instructor who on this
course are all civilians. Dailyroutine would change depending
(14:02):
on when my flight was scheduled.
Ideally, I review my notes inthe morning, visualize any
maneuvers that were giving metrouble and the procedures for
the new material. I'd meet withthe instructor for around an
hour to do the theory lesson,then prepare for the flight
itself, which would take maybehalf an hour or 45 minutes. The
flights are generally a bit overan hour and there's a short
debrief after that. After a bitof a mental cool down, I'd do
(14:23):
some drills to solidify thehands and feet skills I just
practiced, then go over thematerial from the next day in
detail. You have a lot offreedom to set your own
schedule.
Most days you could limit yourwork to only during normal
business hours, but you can justas easily take a few hours off
in the afternoon and practicemore in the evening. On
weekends, I'd skim the upcominglessons and make some rough
notes so it wasn't as much workduring the week. It's also
(14:43):
important to take time off andrelax.
Bryan (14:45):
I think that that is a really good method to the point
that I would say listeners whoare, have not done phase 1
flight training yet or gettingready to do flight training, pay
attention to how that day wasstructured. Because I like that
you've you've got a good levelof intensity, but it seems to be
well paced. And a good level oflike, it is really important,
(15:06):
like, every single flight youneed to be going through this.
You need to set up a pattern toyour day. This is how I prepare.
This is how I digest the flightthat I just did. This is how I
turn around now and get readyfor the next flight. And it's
you kind of drop into a rhythm.And I think establishing that
early on in your flight trainingreally pays dividends.
Ben (15:24):
Yeah. I did that at the beginning of course. I kinda
wrote down some stuff on post itnotes of the process I was gonna
follow, and I tweaked it alittle bit as we went on. But
now I just have an exact processI follow starting about if I can
manage it about 2 hours before aflight. Mhmm.
Bryan (15:38):
And I
Ben (15:38):
just follow that process every time when it's worked out.
Bryan (15:40):
Yeah. I always found getting almost like ritualistic
about my pre and post flightstuff. It just puts you in a
groove. And I think that beingin that groove for flight
training especially is is areally good thing.
Ben (15:51):
And you can really tell, like, mentally, you can tell
when you're, like, in the grooveor when you when you just, even
though you know this stuff, ifyou just don't feel as prepared,
like you can really tell thedifference.
Bryan (16:00):
Yeah. A 100%. So what would you say has been your
biggest challenge on phase 1?The biggest challenge for
Ben (16:08):
me was just mentally holding onto all the
information. There isn't enoughpractice time in the airplane
for things to become instinctualand there's plenty of procedures
and details to remember. Sowithout deliberate work, it's
really easy to get things, evenif you thought you had solidly
learned them, especially ifthere's a few days in between
flights due to weather or eventhe weekend. We had a period of
3 weeks where it only flew 2lessons due to weather. So
(16:29):
keeping skill fate at bay is achallenge.
Bryan (16:31):
When you get a boat of bad weather, which sometimes out
here can last for a week or 2,it can be very, very
challenging.
Ben (16:38):
And you do you do get a review flight if it's been a I I
think it's 7 days since you'veflown. So that is definitely
useful. Yeah. But, I mean, ifit's been 6 days, you're moving
on to the next lesson. And eventhat review flight is is good,
but still, you need to know allthis stuff when you get there.
Bryan (16:53):
Yeah, for sure. And it's funny when you're on that 6th
day, you're almost hoping forone more day of bad weather
because, like, that reviewflight starts to look pretty
tempting after a week. Right. Soif that's your biggest
challenge, what have you done toovercome it?
Ben (17:06):
So although there isn't much practice time in the
airplane, there's a few otherways to make things stick. They
have a cockpit mock up withswitches and whatnot that you're
allowed to use basicallyanytime. So I'd practice my
checklist and emergencies inthere pretty often, but rarely
for very long. I found kind ofthe repetition more valuable
than long study periods. I'd tryto do things as fast as I could
without looking, not becausethat's at all how I do it in the
(17:27):
plane, but because it made itinstinctual and allowed me to
free up mental capacity forflying the plane or
communicating during anemergency.
That's a lesson I learnedinitially in the infantry, but
we did the same thing in soft.In the infantry, we would race
each other to take apart andassemble our rifles in total
darkness. You'd never rush totake apart a rifle in the field
in the dark, but that level ofconfidence and intuitiveness you
(17:48):
built meant that doing thedrills took less mental effort.
So even if you were distractedor fatigued, you wouldn't make
mistakes. There's also even ifyou were distracted or fatigued,
you wouldn't make mistakes.
There's also visualization orwhat pilots call chair flying.
Basically just close your eyesand imagine doing a maneuver or
procedure while moving yourhands and feet as required. This
allows your mind to rehearsesomething without doing it. It's
a different type of learningthan just reviewing or
memorizing notes. We had a classon visualization, but after
(18:11):
that, you're mostly on your ownfor how and when to apply it.
So my prior experience helped alot there too. And lastly, I
brought my computer out withMicrosoft Flight SIM on it. I
found it like a more genericversion of visualization. The
specifics and feel of the planeare totally different, but you
can go through a full flight.And that helped me realize when
I thought I had a procedurememorized and therefore didn't
(18:31):
need to terra fly it, butactually I forgot a little power
setting or some other detail.
It's important if you're goingto do that though, when using a
sim game, not to build badhabits. I wouldn't recommend
trying to learn the material onyour own ahead of time because
if you learn it wrong, you'regoing to have to like go back
and change those habits beforelearning it correctly.
Bryan (18:51):
Yeah. A couple of things there. I like the idea of what
you were saying about doingthings, like, as fast as you
can. It's kind of that mantra oftrain hard, fight easy. Yeah.
Right? Like, add the stress intraining, and then hopefully
that will free up your abilityto think and conduct yourself
even in when you're in like theheat of an emergency or
something like that.
Ben (19:11):
Yeah. And there's like there's a couple of different
mantras for training. And one ofthe big ones is train as you
fight or really just meaningtraining in a realistic manner.
And that's good, but sometimesit's good to push it way past
realistic just to, like, reallysolidify skills. Mhmm.
Bryan (19:25):
The other thing that you said that I completely agree
with is the importance of chairflying. We've said it a few
times on the show before, but Idon't think it can be said
enough. I don't think I did verymuch chair flying when I was a
civilian doing civilian flighttraining. I don't know if I just
didn't know about it or if I waslazier back then or whatever.
But I know that during my timein the military, chair flying
was absolutely key to mysuccess, and I think it just
(19:50):
gives you that opportunity to gothrough procedures over and over
again until you're you areconfident at least procedurally.
I know where I'm gonna turn myhead. I know where I'm gonna put
my hands. I know the next thingI'm gonna do and the next thing
I'm gonna do. And then when youget to the airplane, it's way
less difficult to now putyourself through it for real.
Ben (20:08):
Yeah. And you see visualization, like, we did a a
huge amount in soft. You see itin high level sports. Yeah. I
think it came out of high levelsports.
Mhmm. And the thing that I foundwe got a little bit of, but the
like, how do you actually dothat? Like, what does that look
like? You can say, close youreyes and pretend you're flying,
but like, how do you approachdoing that? That could be the
tricky thing.
(20:28):
So kind of the lesson that Itook away is to, like, only do
very, very small chunks. You'renot going to chair fly an
entire, like even at 20 minutesof flying or something, you're
gonna chair fly a minute or evenless than that.
Bryan (20:42):
Yeah. Take it in like chunks of, like I remember in
Moose Jaw, I used to actuallyhave a chair in front of like
the cockpit poster, and I wouldchair fly like the pre flight.
So I'm going to pre flight thischair as if it's I'm going to
visualize all the little thingsI'm going to check. Okay, that's
done. Break.
Okay. Now I'm going to chair flythis check or I'm going to chair
(21:04):
fly this procedure, but you'reright. Like I never sat there
and essentially went through aflight. Like that would be
really difficult to do.
Ben (21:11):
And then the other thing is I like to kind of, as my prep
before a flight or something isthe last thing I'll visualize is
just feeling of like taxiingback towards the apron, like
feeling like things went well,which just put me in that good
attitude. And I even did thatjust before our written test. I
just like closed my eyes andvisualized before they were
(21:32):
handing out the test of justlike looking at the questions
and things making sense. No ideawhat the questions would be, but
you try to put yourself in thatfeeling of success and and that
can have huge like impact.
Bryan (21:43):
Yeah. That's almost bordering on positive self talk
as well. It's not quite selftalk, but it's like that same
idea of, like, I'm gonna putpositive things in my brain
here, that lead me to success.
Ben (21:55):
Yeah, exactly. They're, like, very related.
Bryan (21:57):
Mhmm. The last thing, which I thought you said that
was very smart was theimportance of the limitations of
using, like, a flight sim orsomething like that. I used to
when I was doing low level navtrips in Moose Jaw, this was
2,011, so technology was alittle more limited. But we had
Google Earth, and I wouldbasically follow my route on
(22:19):
Google Earth and, like, look forlandmarks and things like that.
But realizing, of course, it'sgonna look different out there,
and it's gonna feel different.
And this is only helpful to acertain extent. Same thing with,
like you said, with the flightsim. Like, there are certain
things procedurally it mighthelp you with, but, like, it
would be a very bad idea to takethat and be, like, well, I'm
gonna learn I'm gonna go ahead.I'm gonna learn the rest of this
course and do it make it so Ican do it perfectly in Microsoft
(22:40):
flight sim because that's justnot gonna help you.
Ben (22:43):
Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. It's it, like, it it feels so
realistic, but it is. And youget in plane, and it just
everything works totallydifferent.
Bryan (22:49):
Yeah. A 100%. That's even true going from, like, a full
flight simulator with fullmotion and then going into an
airplane. Like, those flightsims are high fidelity enough
that you can get licensed inthem. But even those don't fully
feel like the real aircraft.
Ben (23:03):
Yeah. Yeah. What has been your most fun or exciting
experience so far? I reallyenjoyed my pre solo lesson. It's
the one time on course where youpractice the same thing over and
over in the plane and thefeeling of confidence and skills
growing exponentially throughoutthat flight is pretty fantastic.
The wind kept becoming moregusty and unstable throughout my
lesson, which unfortunatelymeant it was out of limits at
(23:25):
the end, and I couldn't do mysolo flight right away. But
having progressively morechallenging conditions as my
skills improved was prettygreat.
Bryan (23:31):
It is fun to go out on those days where it's a little
more challenging because it'sgreat to go out on a day where
the air is perfectly smooth, andevery little adjustment you make
is, like, scientific. And youcan see, like, the exact
correspondence of, like, oh, ifI change the power setting like
this and I raise the nose likethis, then this happens, and it
all happens exactly like itwould in a book. But it's also
(23:54):
really, really good for you as apilot to go out in those
challenging conditions as longas they're not, like, way beyond
what you can handle, and theystretch you a little bit. You
experience that growth in termsof what you can handle and your
confidence and all and yourskills and all that kind of
stuff.
Ben (24:08):
It's cool to see, like, days where you go for a flight,
and you know that earlier in thecourse, it would have been
canceled because it's the windsare too much for you. But now
you can handle it withoutassistance. That's a pretty cool
feeling.
Bryan (24:18):
Yeah. And that you have the confidence that I can handle
this. Yeah. Yeah. What skillsand mindset from being an
operator do you believe aretransferable to your training as
a pilot?
Ben (24:28):
There's a lot of crossover in the men hold performance
aspect right down to verysimilar training material. Early
on in operator training, I wastaught visualization, goal
setting, activation control,also known as tuck breathing and
self talk. Visualization andbreathing in particular are
heavily incorporated into thetraining for shooting medical
skills, mission planning, prep,and sample collection. And I've
used them heavily throughout mycareer. The pilot course has a
(24:51):
similar classroom trainingpackage and brought in an
excellent instructor withexperience coaching top level
athletes, but it's notincorporated into the rest of
the training as much.
The ability to realize whenyou've lost some situational
awareness, scan and breathe andmove forward without letting
past mistakes mentally weigh youdown is super important in both
jobs. There's plenty ofinformation on these skills
online and I think it's valuableto practice them and figure out
(25:12):
what works for you beforeshowing up to course. You can
practice visualization anddeliberate rehearsals on
basically anything. When cookingbreakfast, you can visualize all
the individual steps before youget out of bed, go to the
kitchen, and this time do thesame thing, but manipulating the
pan and the flipper, thenactually crack an egg and cook
it with as much speed,perfection, and situational
awareness as you can manage,critiquing yourself afterwards
(25:33):
on what tiny improvements couldbe made. It might seem silly,
but that's basically how skillsare taught in both soft and the
infantry.
And I found that approachhelpful on flight training as
well. And if you practice thaton things you already know how
to do, then you're gonna be ableto apply it on new skills you
don't know how to do yet.
Bryan (25:49):
Well, and yeah. And we already talked about the
importance of visualization andjust how much that can lead to
success. And I just think thatpays huge dividends. The other
thing I think you said that wasreally important is that ability
to quickly move forward withoutletting your mistakes weigh you
down. That skill in flighttraining is huge.
And if you can't do that, like,it could very quickly torpedo
(26:12):
your flight and possibly yourcareer as a pilot.
Ben (26:14):
And it's gonna happen. Like, you'll, like, I don't know
why you make a radio call justthe tiny and a spit wrong. That
doesn't matter at all. But thenthat's what you're thinking
about. Yeah.
So you have to realize, like,no, I'm thinking about that
where you said you'd be movingon. So you are gonna get tripped
up, but you have to realize itand then move on.
Bryan (26:32):
Yeah. And even if, like, you consider yourself, you know,
hopefully, you've got a healthylevel of confidence. You may
consider yourself pretty good.You have to remember though, you
are a student, you are learning,and learning inevitably involves
making mistakes. It's great ifthings are going smooth, but you
will make mistakes and you haveto learn like, okay, That wasn't
ideal, but it's not the end ofthe world, and I'm gonna focus
(26:54):
on what comes next.
I think that's one of the thingsthey teach in mental performance
coaching. Right? What's What'simportant now? Yeah. Exactly.
What's important now or when.And you can you
Ben (27:03):
can go over your mistakes once you're back on the ground,
but when you're up in the air,it's it's on to the next thing.
Bryan (27:08):
Yeah, absolutely. So we just talked a little bit about
what you think the overlaps willbe in your previous career in
this one. What do you think thebiggest differences will be? And
have you experienced any cultureshock moving from the special
forces world to the pilotcommunity?
Ben (27:23):
So, there's a couple of little ones. After 18 years as
an NCM, it's rather strange tobe called SIR. And I haven't
worn a uniform around a base inquite a long time, so looking
for rank and saluting again tooksome adjusting. But on a deeper
level, soft is set up to makedecisions, then action them in a
timely and frankly fast manner.They need to be well considered
and planned, but once a decisionhas been made, everything
(27:45):
progresses very quickly.
And that applied to operationsas well as administration. For
example, if someone need to beremoved from a course for family
reasons, it was not unusual forthem to be on a flight that day
or the next. Decisions would bemade by phone, email, or a 2
minute chat in the hallway, andpaperwork would happen later if
need be. From my limitedexperience, it feels like the
air force is much moreprocedural driven. It does make
(28:06):
sense.
Air safety incidents can bedeadly, and aviation general has
lots of experience to draw fromon how to prevent them.
Checklists exist for a reason,and they should be followed
unless there's good cause todeviate. It can be frustrating
for me when it feels like thefocus is on following a
procedure rather than on timelyaction when it comes to non
flight areas. But I dounderstand that an
organization's culture is builtfor a reason. It's not simple to
(28:26):
apply it to some tasks, but notothers.
On a personal level, I starteddoing my ground checks a bit too
fast, a bit too early and missedpulling the chalks and some
other silly mistakes on one ofmy flights. So I do need to take
on more of that culture andshift my thought process to
being a bit more slow andmethodical. I think most people
at some point have rushed andforgot
Bryan (28:46):
to pull the chocks. I've done that. I remember back when
I was doing my commercialpilot's license in a diamond
katana and, the engine wasstarted and everything, and I
put the throttle up a bit andcouldn't move and realized like,
oh, crap, the chocks are stillin. I had to shut the plane down
and pull them. So it happens.
Ben (29:04):
I think especially amongst like, you know, like highly
motivated people, we want tomove as fast as we can and you
inevitably hit your limit andneed to draw back.
Bryan (29:14):
Yeah. They always, I think the saying is slow is
smooth and smooth is fast,right? Yep. So the less mistakes
that you make by rushing, you'llend up actually getting there
faster in the end by just beingslow and methodical.
Ben (29:26):
We had a slightly different take on that when I was learning
and teaching shooting, and itwas know when to be smooth and
when to go fast. Okay. Becausethere's some things that just
playing fast is fast.
Bryan (29:37):
Yeah. Well, and that's and that highlights the
difference of the two worlds aswell. Right? It's pretty rare in
an aircraft that you don't havetime to be like, okay, this is
what's happening. This is whatwe're gonna do.
Here are the procedures, andwe're gonna follow them.
Ben (29:49):
Like Yeah. Exactly. Even if you lose your engine, you have,
what, like a minute?
intro (29:54):
Like, that's a lot of
Ben (29:55):
you can do a lot of things in a minute. Yeah. You know, you
don't ever need to make adecision that you have, you
know, less than 2 seconds tomake.
Bryan (30:02):
Yeah. Even on the Aurora, we would do Sims where, like,
the worst case scenarios werehappening and we had to, like,
ditch in the ocean or something.And I remember we there used to
be some talk of, like, well, Iwould just do a quick ditch
procedure, which is, like,here's my memorization of, like,
the all of the very, veryimportant things that I have to
do, like, put on your helmet,lock your harness, and all these
different things. And in theend, we realized, like, at least
(30:24):
this was my personal this isBrian's experience. You pretty
much always have time.
Hey, pull that checklist. Let'sgo through it quickly. And then,
you know, now we're going intothe water kind of thing.
Ben (30:35):
That's something, yeah, that's, I learned that on
medical stuff as well. The firsttime you see a simulated, like
really bad casualty and allsorts of stuff, it's you're,
you're panicked. There's so muchto do. There's so much to go on.
But then you realize like, evenif someone's not breathing, you
have 5 minutes, maybe longer.
You have 2 seconds to take adeep breath, calm yourself down,
(30:57):
figure out what you're going todo and then do it. Even in
situations that seem like someof the worst situations in the
world, I never see paramedicsrun to a scene. They always
walk. And I'd heard somecountries when they teach
emergency procedures, they'llteach to take a big deep breath
before doing your emergencyprocedures. That's not taught on
this course, but I think that'sa valuable thing to do.
(31:18):
Because if you were at a highlevel of stress, you're gonna
make mistakes, but you you havetime.
Bryan (31:23):
Yeah. It's also a part of, like, something you'll get
into once you get into aircraftthat are multi crew. There's a
thing called CRM or crewresource management, and a big
part of that is communication.It's about taking your time and
making sure everybody knowswhat's going on. And during an
emergency, there still is thatCRM component.
Like, you still need to makesure that the person beside you
knows what's going on. If youhave people in the back, they
(31:45):
know what's going on. It's notyour, like, a 100% first
priority. Like, obviously,you're gonna handle the
emergency and the control of theaircraft are, like, your first
priorities. But there's alwaystime to approach things in a
timely manner, stay calm, followyour procedures, inform your
people.
Like you're not just scramblingaround like, holy crap. You
know, like Yeah,
Ben (32:05):
exactly. There's, there's more time to solve problems most
of the time. You know, there's,there's very few things that
need to be actioned within asecond or 2. Everything else,
you have a tiny bit of time tocalm down, communicate, figure
out your plan and action it.
Bryan (32:20):
Exactly. So I know you're still just finishing up phase 1,
but what aircraft are you hopingto fly when you get your wings
and why?
Ben (32:29):
So it still is quite a while before I need to put in my
preferences. So I'm trying tokeep an open mind, but rotary,
either SARO or tactical interestme a lot. I've always enjoyed
seeing the back of thehelicopter watching the world
fly by at low altitude, But ithas been really great listening
to your other guests and gettingan idea of the other aspects of
life in each fleet as opposed tojust how it feels to fly in the
aircraft.
Bryan (32:49):
Yeah. That's a big reason that I do this show actually is
for people like you. People aregoing through the training
system to try to give them anidea of what life is like on the
fleets and not just when I wentthrough, a lot of it was like,
hey, the c 17 is big and cool.Like, that could be fun. But
it's nice to know what is lifeactually like on those aircraft.
So that is, like, a big reasonof why we do this. And that's
(33:11):
why we're having thisconversation as well so that
people can learn about phase 1,so they can learn about if so
the NCMs out there can learnabout the special commissioning
plan, if this is something thatthey'd like to approach.
Ben (33:20):
I will say every time I walk past the jet ranger, which
is the training helicopter usedfor phase 3 rotary, I just go, I
wanna fly that.
intro (33:28):
That was
Ben (33:28):
so much fun.
Bryan (33:29):
The jet ranger, from what I hear, is super cool and super
challenging. Like, apparently,hovering and all of those kinds
of things. Like, it has noautopilot, I I believe. Not a
helicopter guy. But from what Ihear, it's very challenging, but
very fun.
Yeah. So we're gonna get intoour last three questions that we
try to ask every guest. What isthe most important thing you do
(33:50):
to keep yourself ready tosucceed in flight training?
Ben (33:53):
I try to keep my mind as much as possible in learning
mode, take the right amount ofbreaks both throughout the day
and on weekends, sleeping enoughand on a consistent schedule and
having routines that prepare mewell for the flight and solidify
the lessons afterwards. Thespecifics of how you go about it
can be largely personal, butcreating some kind of plan and
sticking to it for yourselfreally helps.
Bryan (34:13):
Yeah. You mentioned sleeping enough. That's such a
critical one and it can be apoint of stress sometimes for
people in flight training. Andsometimes once you have like one
night where you couldn't sleep,like I had this happen to me
personally, had one night whereI couldn't sleep, and then that
led to like months of beingreally stressed out about
sleeping. So I don't mean to ifanyone out there has issues with
sleeping, I don't want to pileon that stress.
(34:33):
But getting into, like, ahealthy sleep regime, practicing
good sleep hygiene, and gettingthat sufficient sleep, it's so
important. And as I go on inlife, I realize for everything,
like for physical training, forflight training, just for your
daily emotional regulation, forso many reasons, getting enough
sleep is so important.
Ben (34:51):
Yeah. Even I'd allow myself to sleep in a little bit on
Saturdays, like a little bit.
Bryan (34:55):
Mhmm.
Ben (34:55):
But on Sundays, I'd still be getting up at 6, and I hate
mornings. I'd generally get upway later. But during flight
training, if I have a 8 o'clockflight and we need to brief at
7, well, I want to be awake foran hour before I need to
perform. So I've just kept thatconsistent schedule throughout.
And then it means the days thatit is early, while it's just a
normal schedule, I don't need towake up extra early.
(35:16):
And then yeah, there's some dayswhere I slept pretty poorly, but
because I had kind of enoughconsistency in sleep, I woke up
that morning, did an assessmenton how I was actually feeling
Bryan (35:26):
Mhmm.
Ben (35:26):
And was, like, you know, sufficient to be able to to
perform.
Bryan (35:29):
Yeah. Everyone's gonna have days where, oh, I didn't
sleep well last night. Like,that's just a normal part of
life. Yep. And, like, again,going back to my Aurora days,
very regularly, we're all humanbeings.
Some of us have young kids,whatever. You'll meet up at
before the flight, and sometimesit's 4 in the morning, 3 in the
morning. And you might say, hey,guys. Like, I'm I'm a bit tired
today. I didn't sleep well lastnight, or it's 3 in the morning.
(35:50):
And, obviously, it's difficultin one day to shift your sleep
schedule to that. So we're gonnahave to be conscious of that and
back each other up. And that'sjust another part of crew
resource management and anotherpart of just sort of
communicating as a good crewmember. But, yeah, everyone is
gonna have days on flighttraining whenever that they
don't get the best sleep in theworld. But hopefully, like you
said, you're getting enough goodsleep.
(36:10):
That one bad day is really notthe end of the world.
Ben (36:12):
And if you on phase 1 anyway, if if you didn't get
enough sleep, like, you aren'tforced to fly. Like, you can
it's not a big deal. But, youknow, trying to keep yourself in
that in that learning mode andnot taking those breaks. Because
anytime you have a day off,maybe there's another 2 due to
weather, like, it starts to getmore challenging. Mhmm.
Bryan (36:30):
Yeah. That's an important point too, that you can always
just, especially duringtraining, you can always do this
during operations. Duringtraining, you can always say, I
did not sleep last night. I'mnot at my best. I can't fly
today.
Ben (36:41):
Yeah, exactly.
Bryan (36:42):
Hopefully that's not happening all the time. That
leads to bigger conversationssometimes, but you should always
know when to say, hey, I can'tfly today. Exactly. What has
been the biggest piece of wisdomyou've gained so far that you
would pass on to future phase 1students? Enjoy the challenge
and trust in yourself.
If you pass selection, you
Ben (37:02):
can definitely pass course. Days will feel hard, but that
isn't necessarily signifying alack of ability and work on
deliberate rehearsal andvisualization before coming to
course if those are concepts youaren't particularly experienced
with.
Bryan (37:14):
I really like that point about if you pass selection, you
can pass the course. Selectionis literally intended to find
who can pass. So every step youmake it along the way, it should
add your confidence that, like,I meant to be here. I can do
this. Same thing goes for beforeyou go to a flight test.
This is something that I used tosay to people all the time. The
(37:35):
pretest and the flight test arealways the same levels. There's
no like, if you needed to havelevel threes across the board
for the pretest, you won't haveto make level fours on the test.
They're gonna have the exactsame standards that you need to
meet. So, like, when you go fora test, you've literally already
passed the test.
You've done it the flightbefore, so you just have to go
out there and do it again.
Ben (37:55):
Exactly. You just, yeah, you're, you're set up very well
for success. You just, you needto put in the work and you need
to do the stuff. But yeah,there's no one trying to fail
you.
Bryan (38:04):
Yeah. A 100%. So for our last question, what advice would
you give to someone who'sinterested in switching trades
to pilot, particularly someonewho could make use of the SCP?
Ben (38:16):
Yeah. If you're thinking about it, just go for it. It's
really not that much effort toapply. Or crew selection is
pretty fun. I mean, apart fromthe pressure to do well.
And if you're looking to applythrough SCP, then definitely dig
into the policy and put CEO TPdown as a second choice, if you
can.
Bryan (38:31):
And talk to your PSO. And talk to your PSO. All right,
Ben, I just want to thank you somuch for taking your time out of
your weekend to be here. Yourtest is coming up to finish the
course in this coming week. So Ireally appreciate you being here
and just taking some time tochat.
Thank you.
Ben (38:48):
Yeah. And thanks again, Brian, for doing this podcast.
I've listened to most of theepisodes. I'm gonna go back and
relisten as I'm coming up on thetime where I need to, select the
fleet that I, you know, wouldlike to go to. And I've found it
a really valuable resource toget some insight into the air
force and the training systembefore I'm actually here.
For sure, man. Thanks.
Bryan (39:05):
Thanks. Okay, everybody. That wraps up our chat with Ben
about switching from specialoperations forces to pilot. For
our next episode, we're gonnasit down with my old buddy, Mike
Behring, to talk all about whatit's like to deploy at Christmas
for a very special pilot projectpodcast Christmas episode. Do
you have any questions orcomments about anything you've
(39:26):
heard?
Would you or someone you knowmake a great guest on the show,
or do you have a great idea foran episode of the show? You can
reach out to us at the pilotproject podcast atgmail.com or
on all social media at at podpilot project. We'd like to
thank you for tuning in and asalways ask for your help with
some growth by following the bigthree that's like and follow on
(39:48):
social media, share with yourfriends, and follow and rate us
5 stars wherever you get yourpodcasts. That's all for now.
Thanks for listening.
Keep the blue side up. See you.
Alright. We're ready for departure here at the Pilot
Project Podcast, the best sourcefor stories and advice from the
pilots of the RCAF. I'm yourhost, Brian Morrison. With me
today is phase 1 student andformer member of the Canadian
Joint Incident Response Unit,better known as CJIRU, Ben. Ben,
welcome to the show, and thanksfor taking some time away from
your studies.
Thanks for having me,
Ben (00:48):
and thanks for running this podcast. I found it quite useful
to hear experiences in eachfleet as I'm deciding which way
I'd like my career to go.
Bryan (00:54):
Yeah. For sure, man. That's awesome. So before we
start, let's go over Ben's bio.A quick note, we're probably
about to use the acronym CBRN abunch, and that stands for
chemical, biological,radiological, and nuclear.
Ben joined the Canadian ArmedForces in 2,005 as a reserve
infanteer. After completing amath degree and being promoted
to master corporal, he attendedCJIRU selection in 2010. Once
(01:18):
selected and after completingthe operator course, he
component transferred to theregular force and was posted to
CJIRU as a CBRN operator, whichwas a new trade at the time. Ben
deployed to the Middle East in2013 and 2015 on missions to
train local forces as well as toOp IMPACT in Iraq in 2018 as the
Canadian Special OperationForces CBRN team lead. After
(01:40):
that, he was promoted tosergeant and worked in training
for a few years, developing andrunning several trade specific
courses.
In 2023, he occupationtransferred to pilot through the
special commissioning plan andwas attached posted to 426
squadron in Trenton whileawaiting training. He completed
phase 1 training in early 2024.Today, we will be talking a
little bit about Ben's time insiege Iru, his experience with
(02:02):
the special commissioning plan,and how this all comes together
on phase 1 flight training. Sobefore we start, can you give us
a quick outline of the unitsthat are part of Canadian
Special Operations ForcesCommand or CAN SOFCOM? Sure.
So I'm speaking away from
Ben (02:16):
my personal experience today and not as military
spokesperson. An OPSEC oroperational security is always a
factor when discussingCANSOfcom, so I'll need to keep
some of my answers quite broad.If you want more specific
information, then contact aCANSOfcom recruiter or a public
affairs officer. CANSOfcom hasseveral units, but they all work
together quite a lot and themain tasks don't capture all of
what each unit does. Joint TaskForce 2 or JTF 2's main task is
(02:40):
counterterrorism.
The Canadian Special OperationsRegiment or CSOR is focused
towards working in austereenvironments integrating with
local partner forces. TheCanadian Joint Incident Response
Unit or CJIRI's main task isanything involving chemical,
biological, radiological, andnuclear threats, also known as
CBRN, in special operationsmissions. 427 Special Operations
Squadron, probably what yourlisteners are most familiar
(03:01):
with, is an air force unitembedded into CAN SOFCOM that
provides precision lift and intoother aviation effects. There's
also the soft school, CSOTC, andthe command headquarters. In my
experience, most operations andmuch of the training involves
personnel from multiple units.
Teams are built based on taskrequirements and each unit has
different capabilities tocontribute.
Bryan (03:21):
So obviously, from what you've said, you had a previous
career in the forces. Whatattracted you to the military in
the first place and what led youto go for CJIRU?
Ben (03:29):
So I joined the reserves initially because I needed to
make money for school and itseemed like a good option. I
didn't expect it to turn into acareer. I worked in the infantry
reserves throughout my time inschool and really enjoyed it.
And then shortly beforegraduating, I started recruiting
session for CJIRU. It seemedlike a great balance between
physical tactical work withmental and problem solving
components, which I was quiteinterested in.
(03:50):
So I joined the regular forcespecifically to go to CGIRU.
Bryan (03:53):
Can you tell us a little more about what CGIRU does
exactly?
Ben (03:57):
I can tell you a little bit. CGyru's main focus is
providing CBRN capabilitieseither as part of domestic
operations with the RCMP,counter terror operations with
other care and soft comm units,or abroad in a variety of
environments or roles. Thebaseline level of my training
was force protection, preventingpeople from being impacted by
CBRN threats or mitigating theeffects. But quickly the focus
of my training was shiftedtowards gathering well
(04:18):
documented high quality materialthat could be used for evidence
for intelligence. Afterdeveloping these expertise, we
found lots of work outside ofCBRN specific tasks.
In short, I describe it asbattlefield forensics with the
capability to work with CBRNagents. Very cool.
Bryan (04:34):
Do you have a story about a challenging mission or
situation overseas with CGIRA?
Ben (04:39):
Yeah. In my experience, responsibility is delegated much
lower in soft than elsewhere.And at times that's even more
true at CGIARU since many oftheir jobs are done with very
small teams. On Op Impact, I wasonly in charge of a few people
on paper, but as a mastercorporal, I was a a ground force
commander for a platoon minussized team during a mission. And
I regularly had meetings orcalls with external task force
(04:59):
commanders or staff officers athigher headquarters.
There's also the fact that inthat role, you're the expert.
Nobody else apart from your teamhas any training or experience
in the area. There's very littlereal world experience within the
field. Fortunately, Suburinagents haven't been used that
much on the battlefield sinceWorld War 1, but that also means
you don't have generations ofexperience to go off of. I
(05:21):
needed to make timely decisionsthat could have impacts on the
safety of our team and causemuch higher level issues, which
made the job stressful, but alsovery rewarding.
First off, I had excellentleadership that was very open to
mentoring me through the areas Ihad relatively little experience
with. And since we were a uniquecapability, everything we did
felt quite relevant.
Bryan (05:37):
Oh, that's awesome. So it's a big change to go from
that to flying. What brought youto aviation and why did you
decide to try to become a pilot?
Ben (05:48):
So while I really enjoyed my time at CGIARU, I was just
ready for something different.And as I was looking around at
the different options and stuff,my priority was to find
something that would give meeasily transferable skills to
civilian life when that timeeventually comes. The
combination of mental and handsand feet skills that originally
interested me in CGIARU seem tobe a large part of the pilot
trade as well. I also reallyenjoy being part of mission
(06:08):
planning than going out the doorwith a small team to accomplish
a tangible task. Aviation ingeneral is certainly very
interesting, but for me, it'sthe job of the military pilot
that really drew me in.
Bryan (06:18):
So it's more about being a military pilot for you than it
is about necessarily aviation inand of itself.
Ben (06:24):
Yeah. I wouldn't say I had a, like, particular interest in
aviation before I, like, pickedthis as a career I was
interested in and wanted topursue it.
Bryan (06:32):
It's more about, like, the skills and challenges that
this involves.
Ben (06:35):
Yeah. Exactly. And the types of missions that you might
be able to go and do. Yeah. Allplatforms do some pretty cool
stuff once in a while.
Bryan (06:42):
A 100%. Yeah. So you commissioned through the special
commissioning plan or SCP. Canyou tell us more about the SCP
process and how you went fromCBRN op to pilot?
Ben (06:53):
I'll preface this by saying talk to your local personnel
selection officer or PSO andread the directives. I'm by no
means an expert and things mighthave changed since I went
through. When I applied, therewas 3 ways for an NCM to become
a pilot. ETP NCM, where you do auniversity degree full time paid
for by the military prior tostarting pilot training, and
you're also paid your salaryduring that time. SEP, which is
for NCMs like myself thatalready had an applicable degree
(07:16):
and COTP, which involves doing auniversity degree part time over
several years during and afteryour trades training.
This is generally put down asthe second choice for UTP NCM
candidates. And at the time Iapplied was only open for 3
trades. The process itself ispretty simple. Start by talking
to your base PSO to get thetimelines. Generally
applications are due sometime inthe fall.
(07:37):
There's some paperwork to fillout chain of command comments
and an aircrew medical. You loadit on aircrew selection in
Trenton at some point, and ifsuccessful complete a more
in-depth medical in Toronto.After that, it's just waiting.
Overall, the process is prettysimple. The only part that takes
much effort is preparing foraircrew selection, but they
provide plenty of information onwhat types of things to practice
and it can fit into gaps in anotherwise busy schedule.
(07:58):
I used an app called CBAT orCBAT, and some other memory and
math games to prepare.
Bryan (08:03):
I've heard from a lot of people who are getting ready for
aircrew selection that CBAT is asuper valuable tool to use in
your preparation.
Ben (08:11):
Yeah. I'm not sure on this. It's my understanding that the
selection kind of program we useis very similar to the Brit one.
And I think that app was builtfor the Brits. Okay.
So it works like pretty well asa tool. But, yeah, I found it
valuable.
Bryan (08:24):
Yeah. That checks out. Was it competitive to get the
SEP and make the switch topilot?
Ben (08:30):
Yes and no. My understanding is you're only
competing against other SEPcandidates. And since there's
generally not many candidates orspots, it can change quite a lot
year to year. If there's onespot in one candidate, it's
easy. If there's 4 candidates,it's very competitive.
The 1st year I applied, therewas only one spot for SEP and I
didn't get it. Ironically, if Ididn't have a degree, I would
have had a better chance sinceI'd be applying to a different
(08:51):
program with more spots. I didsome policy reading before
reapplying, and the COTP programdid not specifically exclude
NCMs that already have degrees.So I put that down as my second
choice when I reapplied. I endedup getting an SCP spot that
year.
So I'm not sure how it wouldhave worked if I'd been in and
they went to my second choice ofCOTP, but it's worth
investigating if you're going toapply through the SCP route.
Bryan (09:11):
Yeah, It's definitely sounds like it's worth having
that in your back pocket.
Ben (09:14):
Yeah. Even my PSO wasn't sure that was allowed, but I,
you know, I kind of like said,here's the policy. And he said,
it looks like it's allowed. Sowe put it down. And as I said,
I'm not sure how that would haveworked out in the end, but it's
worth a shot.
Bryan (09:27):
Well, in the worst case scenario is that they
Ben (09:30):
say no.
Bryan (09:30):
Right? At least you have that
Ben (09:32):
backup option. Yeah. Because the first time I
applied, I only put one choice.So the second
Bryan (09:36):
time I put 2 and yeah. So you got through the selection
process, you made it to flighttraining. How has your
experience been on phase 1? It's
Ben (09:43):
been really good. In general, we're treated very much
like adults. You have thematerial and your schedule and
however you wanna get yourstudying and prep done is up to
you. I think it makes a lot ofsense doing it that way. It
seems like disciplined selfstudy is a large part of the
pilot profession writ largeoutside of formal courseware.
I can see how that might bechallenging for people newer to
the military though. Most pilotcandidates have done university
(10:04):
and are going to be proficientat studying and learning theory,
but that may not be the case forlearning and solidifying hands
and feet skills or rapiddecision making. In my
experience on entry leveltraining, both in soft and
infantry, there's lots of focuson repetition of the basics and
how to build good muscle memory,both through deliberate practice
and visualization. And thataspect is largely left up to the
student to figure out forthemselves on phase 1, and maybe
(10:25):
something they don't have muchexperience with unless they
played competitive sports orsomething similar.
Bryan (10:30):
Yeah. I think you're right. Most people who come to
flight training at some pointhave already like, even just to
get through the various tests ofselection, they've done a bunch
of self study and have gottenthemselves into the book
somewhat. But that learning thatphysical side of flying and the
hands and feet skills, that's,like, probably a new skill set
(10:50):
unless, like you, they had aprevious trade that involved
that or, like you said, maybesports or something like that.
That's actually a really goodexample as well.
Ben (10:57):
Yeah. Sometimes you think, like, I am a fast learner, but
there's different types oflearning. And you might have the
ability, but you might not havethe techniques or procedures or
or experience to learn differenttypes of skills.
Bryan (11:08):
Yeah. I think it's probably really important to
show up humble with that inmind. Like, show up realizing
that this is a new skill set.It's gonna have a learning curve
to it. I'm not gonna get thisright out of the gate kind of
thing.
Ben (11:21):
Yeah. You need to be prepared that you might have
been really good at everythingyou've done thus far, but you're
gonna run into something you'renot good at and and be able to
work through that.
Bryan (11:29):
Yeah. For sure. And and that's actually true of flight
training as time goes on becauseevery step you make it, you're
into another step of peoplewho've made it this far. And
now, like, you're getting into agroup of people where, like,
yeah, everybody has been amongstthe best of their application
pool and then of making itthrough the previous phase and
all those things. Right?
So it's just something that astime goes on, you have to become
more and more humble. Yeah.Speaking of the learning curve,
(11:52):
have you found it to be steep?
Ben (11:54):
Yes, but manageable. The full flying course is less than
15 hours unless you need reviewflights or extra practice or
something. So there really isn'tmuch time to solidify skills
before learning the next thingand you're expected to improve
fairly quickly with that minimalpractice. That being said, it
seems like the point of thecourse is just to lay, the
foundation for future training,not to make you an expert flying
(12:15):
this aircraft. There's timeswhere I felt like I was barely
keeping up, but really that'sjust a sign of course
efficiency.
It's a lot of fun, but at theend of the day, it is a job. So
if it feels like a lot of work,that's okay.
Bryan (12:25):
Yeah. I think you've said a couple important things there.
First of all, that feeling ofbarely keeping up, like you
said, it's pretty muchintentionally designed that way.
You use the term courseefficiency, and that's exactly
what it is. These courses don'thave any fat.
That's all been trimmed. It'sliterally, like, what is the
fastest pace that we can safelyget people from start to end and
(12:48):
have them be proficient all theway through without having a
bunch of people fail becausethis is too fast paced.
Ben (12:53):
Yeah, exactly. If you want to do it at an enjoyable pace,
you're more than welcome to payfor it on your own. Yeah. But
since it's a job, you need to,like, do it at the fastest pace
that's reasonable.
Bryan (13:03):
That's right. And, like, as much as the flying, there are
gonna be days where it's, like,so fun. Like, I had an
instructor who used to say,Pete's working for 11. When we
he's walking back from a flight,and I'd be like,
Ben (13:13):
yeah.
Bryan (13:13):
That that's right. This is great. But there are days
where it is it is work, eitherwhen you're studying on the
ground or sometimes you'll comedown from a flight and you are
working your butt off the wholetime just to keep up, and it is
work sometimes for sure.
Ben (13:25):
And if you show up with that, kind of intention that,
like, this is work and this ismy job and I need to approach it
that way, and then it ends upbeing fun, that's great. But if
it ends up being a bit of agrind, that's fine too.
Bryan (13:36):
Yeah. Absolutely. Can you take us through a day in the
life of a phase one student?Sure.
Ben (13:42):
The course starts with around 2 weeks of ground school,
most of which is self study.They give you a laptop with all
the lessons and you go throughthem at your own pace with some
in person review lessons andother topics throughout. There's
a test at the end and while it'snot easy, there's plenty of time
and material to be wellprepared. After that, you
generally stay with the sameflight instructor who on this
course are all civilians. Dailyroutine would change depending
(14:02):
on when my flight was scheduled.
Ideally, I review my notes inthe morning, visualize any
maneuvers that were giving metrouble and the procedures for
the new material. I'd meet withthe instructor for around an
hour to do the theory lesson,then prepare for the flight
itself, which would take maybehalf an hour or 45 minutes. The
flights are generally a bit overan hour and there's a short
debrief after that. After a bitof a mental cool down, I'd do
(14:23):
some drills to solidify thehands and feet skills I just
practiced, then go over thematerial from the next day in
detail. You have a lot offreedom to set your own
schedule.
Most days you could limit yourwork to only during normal
business hours, but you can justas easily take a few hours off
in the afternoon and practicemore in the evening. On
weekends, I'd skim the upcominglessons and make some rough
notes so it wasn't as much workduring the week. It's also
(14:43):
important to take time off andrelax.
Bryan (14:45):
I think that that is a really good method to the point
that I would say listeners whoare, have not done phase 1
flight training yet or gettingready to do flight training, pay
attention to how that day wasstructured. Because I like that
you've you've got a good levelof intensity, but it seems to be
well paced. And a good level oflike, it is really important,
(15:06):
like, every single flight youneed to be going through this.
You need to set up a pattern toyour day. This is how I prepare.
This is how I digest the flightthat I just did. This is how I
turn around now and get readyfor the next flight. And it's
you kind of drop into a rhythm.And I think establishing that
early on in your flight trainingreally pays dividends.
Ben (15:24):
Yeah. I did that at the beginning of course. I kinda
wrote down some stuff on post itnotes of the process I was gonna
follow, and I tweaked it alittle bit as we went on. But
now I just have an exact processI follow starting about if I can
manage it about 2 hours before aflight. Mhmm.
Bryan (15:38):
And I
Ben (15:38):
just follow that process every time when it's worked out.
Bryan (15:40):
Yeah. I always found getting almost like ritualistic
about my pre and post flightstuff. It just puts you in a
groove. And I think that beingin that groove for flight
training especially is is areally good thing.
Ben (15:51):
And you can really tell, like, mentally, you can tell
when you're, like, in the grooveor when you when you just, even
though you know this stuff, ifyou just don't feel as prepared,
like you can really tell thedifference.
Bryan (16:00):
Yeah. A 100%. So what would you say has been your
biggest challenge on phase 1?The biggest challenge for
Ben (16:08):
me was just mentally holding onto all the
information. There isn't enoughpractice time in the airplane
for things to become instinctualand there's plenty of procedures
and details to remember. Sowithout deliberate work, it's
really easy to get things, evenif you thought you had solidly
learned them, especially ifthere's a few days in between
flights due to weather or eventhe weekend. We had a period of
3 weeks where it only flew 2lessons due to weather. So
(16:29):
keeping skill fate at bay is achallenge.
Bryan (16:31):
When you get a boat of bad weather, which sometimes out
here can last for a week or 2,it can be very, very
challenging.
Ben (16:38):
And you do you do get a review flight if it's been a I I
think it's 7 days since you'veflown. So that is definitely
useful. Yeah. But, I mean, ifit's been 6 days, you're moving
on to the next lesson. And eventhat review flight is is good,
but still, you need to know allthis stuff when you get there.
Bryan (16:53):
Yeah, for sure. And it's funny when you're on that 6th
day, you're almost hoping forone more day of bad weather
because, like, that reviewflight starts to look pretty
tempting after a week. Right. Soif that's your biggest
challenge, what have you done toovercome it?
Ben (17:06):
So although there isn't much practice time in the
airplane, there's a few otherways to make things stick. They
have a cockpit mock up withswitches and whatnot that you're
allowed to use basicallyanytime. So I'd practice my
checklist and emergencies inthere pretty often, but rarely
for very long. I found kind ofthe repetition more valuable
than long study periods. I'd tryto do things as fast as I could
without looking, not becausethat's at all how I do it in the
(17:27):
plane, but because it made itinstinctual and allowed me to
free up mental capacity forflying the plane or
communicating during anemergency.
That's a lesson I learnedinitially in the infantry, but
we did the same thing in soft.In the infantry, we would race
each other to take apart andassemble our rifles in total
darkness. You'd never rush totake apart a rifle in the field
in the dark, but that level ofconfidence and intuitiveness you
(17:48):
built meant that doing thedrills took less mental effort.
So even if you were distractedor fatigued, you wouldn't make
mistakes. There's also even ifyou were distracted or fatigued,
you wouldn't make mistakes.
There's also visualization orwhat pilots call chair flying.
Basically just close your eyesand imagine doing a maneuver or
procedure while moving yourhands and feet as required. This
allows your mind to rehearsesomething without doing it. It's
a different type of learningthan just reviewing or
memorizing notes. We had a classon visualization, but after
(18:11):
that, you're mostly on your ownfor how and when to apply it.
So my prior experience helped alot there too. And lastly, I
brought my computer out withMicrosoft Flight SIM on it. I
found it like a more genericversion of visualization. The
specifics and feel of the planeare totally different, but you
can go through a full flight.And that helped me realize when
I thought I had a procedurememorized and therefore didn't
(18:31):
need to terra fly it, butactually I forgot a little power
setting or some other detail.
It's important if you're goingto do that though, when using a
sim game, not to build badhabits. I wouldn't recommend
trying to learn the material onyour own ahead of time because
if you learn it wrong, you'regoing to have to like go back
and change those habits beforelearning it correctly.
Bryan (18:51):
Yeah. A couple of things there. I like the idea of what
you were saying about doingthings, like, as fast as you
can. It's kind of that mantra oftrain hard, fight easy. Yeah.
Right? Like, add the stress intraining, and then hopefully
that will free up your abilityto think and conduct yourself
even in when you're in like theheat of an emergency or
something like that.
Ben (19:11):
Yeah. And there's like there's a couple of different
mantras for training. And one ofthe big ones is train as you
fight or really just meaningtraining in a realistic manner.
And that's good, but sometimesit's good to push it way past
realistic just to, like, reallysolidify skills. Mhmm.
Bryan (19:25):
The other thing that you said that I completely agree
with is the importance of chairflying. We've said it a few
times on the show before, but Idon't think it can be said
enough. I don't think I did verymuch chair flying when I was a
civilian doing civilian flighttraining. I don't know if I just
didn't know about it or if I waslazier back then or whatever.
But I know that during my timein the military, chair flying
was absolutely key to mysuccess, and I think it just
(19:50):
gives you that opportunity to gothrough procedures over and over
again until you're you areconfident at least procedurally.
I know where I'm gonna turn myhead. I know where I'm gonna put
my hands. I know the next thingI'm gonna do and the next thing
I'm gonna do. And then when youget to the airplane, it's way
less difficult to now putyourself through it for real.
Ben (20:08):
Yeah. And you see visualization, like, we did a a
huge amount in soft. You see itin high level sports. Yeah. I
think it came out of high levelsports.
Mhmm. And the thing that I foundwe got a little bit of, but the
like, how do you actually dothat? Like, what does that look
like? You can say, close youreyes and pretend you're flying,
but like, how do you approachdoing that? That could be the
tricky thing.
(20:28):
So kind of the lesson that Itook away is to, like, only do
very, very small chunks. You'renot going to chair fly an
entire, like even at 20 minutesof flying or something, you're
gonna chair fly a minute or evenless than that.
Bryan (20:42):
Yeah. Take it in like chunks of, like I remember in
Moose Jaw, I used to actuallyhave a chair in front of like
the cockpit poster, and I wouldchair fly like the pre flight.
So I'm going to pre flight thischair as if it's I'm going to
visualize all the little thingsI'm going to check. Okay, that's
done. Break.
Okay. Now I'm going to chair flythis check or I'm going to chair
(21:04):
fly this procedure, but you'reright. Like I never sat there
and essentially went through aflight. Like that would be
really difficult to do.
Ben (21:11):
And then the other thing is I like to kind of, as my prep
before a flight or something isthe last thing I'll visualize is
just feeling of like taxiingback towards the apron, like
feeling like things went well,which just put me in that good
attitude. And I even did thatjust before our written test. I
just like closed my eyes andvisualized before they were
(21:32):
handing out the test of justlike looking at the questions
and things making sense. No ideawhat the questions would be, but
you try to put yourself in thatfeeling of success and and that
can have huge like impact.
Bryan (21:43):
Yeah. That's almost bordering on positive self talk
as well. It's not quite selftalk, but it's like that same
idea of, like, I'm gonna putpositive things in my brain
here, that lead me to success.
Ben (21:55):
Yeah, exactly. They're, like, very related.
Bryan (21:57):
Mhmm. The last thing, which I thought you said that
was very smart was theimportance of the limitations of
using, like, a flight sim orsomething like that. I used to
when I was doing low level navtrips in Moose Jaw, this was
2,011, so technology was alittle more limited. But we had
Google Earth, and I wouldbasically follow my route on
(22:19):
Google Earth and, like, look forlandmarks and things like that.
But realizing, of course, it'sgonna look different out there,
and it's gonna feel different.
And this is only helpful to acertain extent. Same thing with,
like you said, with the flightsim. Like, there are certain
things procedurally it mighthelp you with, but, like, it
would be a very bad idea to takethat and be, like, well, I'm
gonna learn I'm gonna go ahead.I'm gonna learn the rest of this
course and do it make it so Ican do it perfectly in Microsoft
(22:40):
flight sim because that's justnot gonna help you.
Ben (22:43):
Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. It's it, like, it it feels so
realistic, but it is. And youget in plane, and it just
everything works totallydifferent.
Bryan (22:49):
Yeah. A 100%. That's even true going from, like, a full
flight simulator with fullmotion and then going into an
airplane. Like, those flightsims are high fidelity enough
that you can get licensed inthem. But even those don't fully
feel like the real aircraft.
Ben (23:03):
Yeah. Yeah. What has been your most fun or exciting
experience so far? I reallyenjoyed my pre solo lesson. It's
the one time on course where youpractice the same thing over and
over in the plane and thefeeling of confidence and skills
growing exponentially throughoutthat flight is pretty fantastic.
The wind kept becoming moregusty and unstable throughout my
lesson, which unfortunatelymeant it was out of limits at
(23:25):
the end, and I couldn't do mysolo flight right away. But
having progressively morechallenging conditions as my
skills improved was prettygreat.
Bryan (23:31):
It is fun to go out on those days where it's a little
more challenging because it'sgreat to go out on a day where
the air is perfectly smooth, andevery little adjustment you make
is, like, scientific. And youcan see, like, the exact
correspondence of, like, oh, ifI change the power setting like
this and I raise the nose likethis, then this happens, and it
all happens exactly like itwould in a book. But it's also
(23:54):
really, really good for you as apilot to go out in those
challenging conditions as longas they're not, like, way beyond
what you can handle, and theystretch you a little bit. You
experience that growth in termsof what you can handle and your
confidence and all and yourskills and all that kind of
stuff.
Ben (24:08):
It's cool to see, like, days where you go for a flight,
and you know that earlier in thecourse, it would have been
canceled because it's the windsare too much for you. But now
you can handle it withoutassistance. That's a pretty cool
feeling.
Bryan (24:18):
Yeah. And that you have the confidence that I can handle
this. Yeah. Yeah. What skillsand mindset from being an
operator do you believe aretransferable to your training as
a pilot?
Ben (24:28):
There's a lot of crossover in the men hold performance
aspect right down to verysimilar training material. Early
on in operator training, I wastaught visualization, goal
setting, activation control,also known as tuck breathing and
self talk. Visualization andbreathing in particular are
heavily incorporated into thetraining for shooting medical
skills, mission planning, prep,and sample collection. And I've
used them heavily throughout mycareer. The pilot course has a
(24:51):
similar classroom trainingpackage and brought in an
excellent instructor withexperience coaching top level
athletes, but it's notincorporated into the rest of
the training as much.
The ability to realize whenyou've lost some situational
awareness, scan and breathe andmove forward without letting
past mistakes mentally weigh youdown is super important in both
jobs. There's plenty ofinformation on these skills
online and I think it's valuableto practice them and figure out
(25:12):
what works for you beforeshowing up to course. You can
practice visualization anddeliberate rehearsals on
basically anything. When cookingbreakfast, you can visualize all
the individual steps before youget out of bed, go to the
kitchen, and this time do thesame thing, but manipulating the
pan and the flipper, thenactually crack an egg and cook
it with as much speed,perfection, and situational
awareness as you can manage,critiquing yourself afterwards
(25:33):
on what tiny improvements couldbe made. It might seem silly,
but that's basically how skillsare taught in both soft and the
infantry.
And I found that approachhelpful on flight training as
well. And if you practice thaton things you already know how
to do, then you're gonna be ableto apply it on new skills you
don't know how to do yet.
Bryan (25:49):
Well, and yeah. And we already talked about the
importance of visualization andjust how much that can lead to
success. And I just think thatpays huge dividends. The other
thing I think you said that wasreally important is that ability
to quickly move forward withoutletting your mistakes weigh you
down. That skill in flighttraining is huge.
And if you can't do that, like,it could very quickly torpedo
(26:12):
your flight and possibly yourcareer as a pilot.
Ben (26:14):
And it's gonna happen. Like, you'll, like, I don't know
why you make a radio call justthe tiny and a spit wrong. That
doesn't matter at all. But thenthat's what you're thinking
about. Yeah.
So you have to realize, like,no, I'm thinking about that
where you said you'd be movingon. So you are gonna get tripped
up, but you have to realize itand then move on.
Bryan (26:32):
Yeah. And even if, like, you consider yourself, you know,
hopefully, you've got a healthylevel of confidence. You may
consider yourself pretty good.You have to remember though, you
are a student, you are learning,and learning inevitably involves
making mistakes. It's great ifthings are going smooth, but you
will make mistakes and you haveto learn like, okay, That wasn't
ideal, but it's not the end ofthe world, and I'm gonna focus
(26:54):
on what comes next.
I think that's one of the thingsthey teach in mental performance
coaching. Right? What's What'simportant now? Yeah. Exactly.
What's important now or when.And you can you
Ben (27:03):
can go over your mistakes once you're back on the ground,
but when you're up in the air,it's it's on to the next thing.
Bryan (27:08):
Yeah, absolutely. So we just talked a little bit about
what you think the overlaps willbe in your previous career in
this one. What do you think thebiggest differences will be? And
have you experienced any cultureshock moving from the special
forces world to the pilotcommunity?
Ben (27:23):
So, there's a couple of little ones. After 18 years as
an NCM, it's rather strange tobe called SIR. And I haven't
worn a uniform around a base inquite a long time, so looking
for rank and saluting again tooksome adjusting. But on a deeper
level, soft is set up to makedecisions, then action them in a
timely and frankly fast manner.They need to be well considered
and planned, but once a decisionhas been made, everything
(27:45):
progresses very quickly.
And that applied to operationsas well as administration. For
example, if someone need to beremoved from a course for family
reasons, it was not unusual forthem to be on a flight that day
or the next. Decisions would bemade by phone, email, or a 2
minute chat in the hallway, andpaperwork would happen later if
need be. From my limitedexperience, it feels like the
air force is much moreprocedural driven. It does make
(28:06):
sense.
Air safety incidents can bedeadly, and aviation general has
lots of experience to draw fromon how to prevent them.
Checklists exist for a reason,and they should be followed
unless there's good cause todeviate. It can be frustrating
for me when it feels like thefocus is on following a
procedure rather than on timelyaction when it comes to non
flight areas. But I dounderstand that an
organization's culture is builtfor a reason. It's not simple to
(28:26):
apply it to some tasks, but notothers.
On a personal level, I starteddoing my ground checks a bit too
fast, a bit too early and missedpulling the chalks and some
other silly mistakes on one ofmy flights. So I do need to take
on more of that culture andshift my thought process to
being a bit more slow andmethodical. I think most people
at some point have rushed andforgot
Bryan (28:46):
to pull the chocks. I've done that. I remember back when
I was doing my commercialpilot's license in a diamond
katana and, the engine wasstarted and everything, and I
put the throttle up a bit andcouldn't move and realized like,
oh, crap, the chocks are stillin. I had to shut the plane down
and pull them. So it happens.
Ben (29:04):
I think especially amongst like, you know, like highly
motivated people, we want tomove as fast as we can and you
inevitably hit your limit andneed to draw back.
Bryan (29:14):
Yeah. They always, I think the saying is slow is
smooth and smooth is fast,right? Yep. So the less mistakes
that you make by rushing, you'llend up actually getting there
faster in the end by just beingslow and methodical.
Ben (29:26):
We had a slightly different take on that when I was learning
and teaching shooting, and itwas know when to be smooth and
when to go fast. Okay. Becausethere's some things that just
playing fast is fast.
Bryan (29:37):
Yeah. Well, and that's and that highlights the
difference of the two worlds aswell. Right? It's pretty rare in
an aircraft that you don't havetime to be like, okay, this is
what's happening. This is whatwe're gonna do.
Here are the procedures, andwe're gonna follow them.
Ben (29:49):
Like Yeah. Exactly. Even if you lose your engine, you have,
what, like a minute?
intro (29:54):
Like, that's a lot of
Ben (29:55):
you can do a lot of things in a minute. Yeah. You know, you
don't ever need to make adecision that you have, you
know, less than 2 seconds tomake.
Bryan (30:02):
Yeah. Even on the Aurora, we would do Sims where, like,
the worst case scenarios werehappening and we had to, like,
ditch in the ocean or something.And I remember we there used to
be some talk of, like, well, Iwould just do a quick ditch
procedure, which is, like,here's my memorization of, like,
the all of the very, veryimportant things that I have to
do, like, put on your helmet,lock your harness, and all these
different things. And in theend, we realized, like, at least
(30:24):
this was my personal this isBrian's experience. You pretty
much always have time.
Hey, pull that checklist. Let'sgo through it quickly. And then,
you know, now we're going intothe water kind of thing.
Ben (30:35):
That's something, yeah, that's, I learned that on
medical stuff as well. The firsttime you see a simulated, like
really bad casualty and allsorts of stuff, it's you're,
you're panicked. There's so muchto do. There's so much to go on.
But then you realize like, evenif someone's not breathing, you
have 5 minutes, maybe longer.
You have 2 seconds to take adeep breath, calm yourself down,
(30:57):
figure out what you're going todo and then do it. Even in
situations that seem like someof the worst situations in the
world, I never see paramedicsrun to a scene. They always
walk. And I'd heard somecountries when they teach
emergency procedures, they'llteach to take a big deep breath
before doing your emergencyprocedures. That's not taught on
this course, but I think that'sa valuable thing to do.
(31:18):
Because if you were at a highlevel of stress, you're gonna
make mistakes, but you you havetime.
Bryan (31:23):
Yeah. It's also a part of, like, something you'll get
into once you get into aircraftthat are multi crew. There's a
thing called CRM or crewresource management, and a big
part of that is communication.It's about taking your time and
making sure everybody knowswhat's going on. And during an
emergency, there still is thatCRM component.
Like, you still need to makesure that the person beside you
knows what's going on. If youhave people in the back, they
(31:45):
know what's going on. It's notyour, like, a 100% first
priority. Like, obviously,you're gonna handle the
emergency and the control of theaircraft are, like, your first
priorities. But there's alwaystime to approach things in a
timely manner, stay calm, followyour procedures, inform your
people.
Like you're not just scramblingaround like, holy crap. You
know, like Yeah,
Ben (32:05):
exactly. There's, there's more time to solve problems most
of the time. You know, there's,there's very few things that
need to be actioned within asecond or 2. Everything else,
you have a tiny bit of time tocalm down, communicate, figure
out your plan and action it.
Bryan (32:20):
Exactly. So I know you're still just finishing up phase 1,
but what aircraft are you hopingto fly when you get your wings
and why?
Ben (32:29):
So it still is quite a while before I need to put in my
preferences. So I'm trying tokeep an open mind, but rotary,
either SARO or tactical interestme a lot. I've always enjoyed
seeing the back of thehelicopter watching the world
fly by at low altitude, But ithas been really great listening
to your other guests and gettingan idea of the other aspects of
life in each fleet as opposed tojust how it feels to fly in the
aircraft.
Bryan (32:49):
Yeah. That's a big reason that I do this show actually is
for people like you. People aregoing through the training
system to try to give them anidea of what life is like on the
fleets and not just when I wentthrough, a lot of it was like,
hey, the c 17 is big and cool.Like, that could be fun. But
it's nice to know what is lifeactually like on those aircraft.
So that is, like, a big reasonof why we do this. And that's
(33:11):
why we're having thisconversation as well so that
people can learn about phase 1,so they can learn about if so
the NCMs out there can learnabout the special commissioning
plan, if this is something thatthey'd like to approach.
Ben (33:20):
I will say every time I walk past the jet ranger, which
is the training helicopter usedfor phase 3 rotary, I just go, I
wanna fly that.
intro (33:28):
That was
Ben (33:28):
so much fun.
Bryan (33:29):
The jet ranger, from what I hear, is super cool and super
challenging. Like, apparently,hovering and all of those kinds
of things. Like, it has noautopilot, I I believe. Not a
helicopter guy. But from what Ihear, it's very challenging, but
very fun.
Yeah. So we're gonna get intoour last three questions that we
try to ask every guest. What isthe most important thing you do
(33:50):
to keep yourself ready tosucceed in flight training?
Ben (33:53):
I try to keep my mind as much as possible in learning
mode, take the right amount ofbreaks both throughout the day
and on weekends, sleeping enoughand on a consistent schedule and
having routines that prepare mewell for the flight and solidify
the lessons afterwards. Thespecifics of how you go about it
can be largely personal, butcreating some kind of plan and
sticking to it for yourselfreally helps.
Bryan (34:13):
Yeah. You mentioned sleeping enough. That's such a
critical one and it can be apoint of stress sometimes for
people in flight training. Andsometimes once you have like one
night where you couldn't sleep,like I had this happen to me
personally, had one night whereI couldn't sleep, and then that
led to like months of beingreally stressed out about
sleeping. So I don't mean to ifanyone out there has issues with
sleeping, I don't want to pileon that stress.
(34:33):
But getting into, like, ahealthy sleep regime, practicing
good sleep hygiene, and gettingthat sufficient sleep, it's so
important. And as I go on inlife, I realize for everything,
like for physical training, forflight training, just for your
daily emotional regulation, forso many reasons, getting enough
sleep is so important.
Ben (34:51):
Yeah. Even I'd allow myself to sleep in a little bit on
Saturdays, like a little bit.
Bryan (34:55):
Mhmm.
Ben (34:55):
But on Sundays, I'd still be getting up at 6, and I hate
mornings. I'd generally get upway later. But during flight
training, if I have a 8 o'clockflight and we need to brief at
7, well, I want to be awake foran hour before I need to
perform. So I've just kept thatconsistent schedule throughout.
And then it means the days thatit is early, while it's just a
normal schedule, I don't need towake up extra early.
(35:16):
And then yeah, there's some dayswhere I slept pretty poorly, but
because I had kind of enoughconsistency in sleep, I woke up
that morning, did an assessmenton how I was actually feeling
Bryan (35:26):
Mhmm.
Ben (35:26):
And was, like, you know, sufficient to be able to to
perform.
Bryan (35:29):
Yeah. Everyone's gonna have days where, oh, I didn't
sleep well last night. Like,that's just a normal part of
life. Yep. And, like, again,going back to my Aurora days,
very regularly, we're all humanbeings.
Some of us have young kids,whatever. You'll meet up at
before the flight, and sometimesit's 4 in the morning, 3 in the
morning. And you might say, hey,guys. Like, I'm I'm a bit tired
today. I didn't sleep well lastnight, or it's 3 in the morning.
(35:50):
And, obviously, it's difficultin one day to shift your sleep
schedule to that. So we're gonnahave to be conscious of that and
back each other up. And that'sjust another part of crew
resource management and anotherpart of just sort of
communicating as a good crewmember. But, yeah, everyone is
gonna have days on flighttraining whenever that they
don't get the best sleep in theworld. But hopefully, like you
said, you're getting enough goodsleep.
(36:10):
That one bad day is really notthe end of the world.
Ben (36:12):
And if you on phase 1 anyway, if if you didn't get
enough sleep, like, you aren'tforced to fly. Like, you can
it's not a big deal. But, youknow, trying to keep yourself in
that in that learning mode andnot taking those breaks. Because
anytime you have a day off,maybe there's another 2 due to
weather, like, it starts to getmore challenging. Mhmm.
Bryan (36:30):
Yeah. That's an important point too, that you can always
just, especially duringtraining, you can always do this
during operations. Duringtraining, you can always say, I
did not sleep last night. I'mnot at my best. I can't fly
today.
Ben (36:41):
Yeah, exactly.
Bryan (36:42):
Hopefully that's not happening all the time. That
leads to bigger conversationssometimes, but you should always
know when to say, hey, I can'tfly today. Exactly. What has
been the biggest piece of wisdomyou've gained so far that you
would pass on to future phase 1students? Enjoy the challenge
and trust in yourself.
If you pass selection, you
Ben (37:02):
can definitely pass course. Days will feel hard, but that
isn't necessarily signifying alack of ability and work on
deliberate rehearsal andvisualization before coming to
course if those are concepts youaren't particularly experienced
with.
Bryan (37:14):
I really like that point about if you pass selection, you
can pass the course. Selectionis literally intended to find
who can pass. So every step youmake it along the way, it should
add your confidence that, like,I meant to be here. I can do
this. Same thing goes for beforeyou go to a flight test.
This is something that I used tosay to people all the time. The
(37:35):
pretest and the flight test arealways the same levels. There's
no like, if you needed to havelevel threes across the board
for the pretest, you won't haveto make level fours on the test.
They're gonna have the exactsame standards that you need to
meet. So, like, when you go fora test, you've literally already
passed the test.
You've done it the flightbefore, so you just have to go
out there and do it again.
Ben (37:55):
Exactly. You just, yeah, you're, you're set up very well
for success. You just, you needto put in the work and you need
to do the stuff. But yeah,there's no one trying to fail
you.
Bryan (38:04):
Yeah. A 100%. So for our last question, what advice would
you give to someone who'sinterested in switching trades
to pilot, particularly someonewho could make use of the SCP?
Ben (38:16):
Yeah. If you're thinking about it, just go for it. It's
really not that much effort toapply. Or crew selection is
pretty fun. I mean, apart fromthe pressure to do well.
And if you're looking to applythrough SCP, then definitely dig
into the policy and put CEO TPdown as a second choice, if you
can.
Bryan (38:31):
And talk to your PSO. And talk to your PSO. All right,
Ben, I just want to thank you somuch for taking your time out of
your weekend to be here. Yourtest is coming up to finish the
course in this coming week. So Ireally appreciate you being here
and just taking some time tochat.
Thank you.
Ben (38:48):
Yeah. And thanks again, Brian, for doing this podcast.
I've listened to most of theepisodes. I'm gonna go back and
relisten as I'm coming up on thetime where I need to, select the
fleet that I, you know, wouldlike to go to. And I've found it
a really valuable resource toget some insight into the air
force and the training systembefore I'm actually here.
For sure, man. Thanks.
Bryan (39:05):
Thanks. Okay, everybody. That wraps up our chat with Ben
about switching from specialoperations forces to pilot. For
our next episode, we're gonnasit down with my old buddy, Mike
Behring, to talk all about whatit's like to deploy at Christmas
for a very special pilot projectpodcast Christmas episode. Do
you have any questions orcomments about anything you've
(39:26):
heard?
Would you or someone you knowmake a great guest on the show,
or do you have a great idea foran episode of the show? You can
reach out to us at the pilotproject podcast atgmail.com or
on all social media at at podpilot project. We'd like to
thank you for tuning in and asalways ask for your help with
some growth by following the bigthree that's like and follow on
(39:48):
social media, share with yourfriends, and follow and rate us
5 stars wherever you get yourpodcasts. That's all for now.
Thanks for listening.
Keep the blue side up. See you.
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