Tune in to this episode for an exciting announcement about the podcast! Following that, we will sit down with renowned air-to-air photographer and publisher Mike Reyno. What is it like to work extensively with the RCAF conducting air-to-air photography with every Squadron in the RCAF? What does it take to get the perfect shot - and what gets you noticed by a publisher? We will talk about this and much more on today's episode of The Pilot Project Podcast.
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Episode Transcript
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bryan (00:29):
Alright. We're ready for departure here at the Pilot
Project podcast, the best sourcefor stories and advice from RCAF
and Mission Aviation Pilotsbrought to you by Skies
Magazine. I'm your host, BrianMorrison. And today, we're going
to do things a littledifferently. For the first half
of part one of this chat, mywife and editor, Melissa, will
be asking me a few questionsregarding an exciting
announcement we have.
(00:49):
For the second half, we will sitdown with Mike Reno, publisher
and owner of Vertical Valor,Vertical Marketplace, Skyes,
RCAF Today, eVTOL.com, InsightMagazines, and Vertical MRO
Conference, all under MHMPublishing to begin discussing
his career in aviationphotography. Melissa, thank you
for joining me today. And onceagain, putting yourself behind a
(01:10):
microphone.
melissa (01:11):
Thanks for having me back. So, Brian, you have an
exciting announcement for thepodcast. Can you tell us about
it?
bryan (01:18):
Yeah. As of March 18, we will become a weekly podcast
partnered with Skies Magazine.
melissa (01:25):
How do you feel about this partnership with Skies
Magazine?
bryan (01:29):
Well, when I first talked with, Mike, the owner of MHM
Publishing, who also does, SkyMagazine in the summer, I was,
very humbled when he put forththe idea of becoming a weekly
show and officially partneringwith Skies magazine. But now
that it's really coming toreality, I'm getting really
excited about it.
melissa (01:48):
What will be changing for the show, and what will stay
the same?
bryan (01:51):
So basically, the show is gonna stay the same. We're gonna
aim to put out the same qualityof show that we've always put
out. We're still gonna befocused on the RCAF, but we are
gonna add new types of content.So you'll notice that the new
intro says, the best source forstories and advice from RCAF and
Mission Aviation Pilots. SoMission Aviation for us is
basically first responders.
It's police, it's firefighting,it's medevac. It's also coast
(02:15):
guard search and rescue. So anykind of aviation that's mission
based. The other thing that'sgoing to change is we are going
to start running advertising inthe show. There's going to be
two or three ads in each show,and that's basically helping us
keep the lights on while weproduce the show.
melissa (02:30):
Awesome. So not much change for the listener?
bryan (02:32):
No. For the listener, it's gonna be pretty
transparent. The other bigchange of course is that it'll
be weekly. So they'll get evenmore content from us.
melissa (02:40):
Awesome. Is there anything else that will change?
bryan (02:44):
Yeah. One thing that listeners are gonna notice,
especially if they are checkingout our social media, which they
should for sure, because we putout regular content, cool videos
with great quotes from the show,and you can follow that at
podpilotproject, of course, isthat our branding is changing.
So you're gonna notice that thelogo will soon no longer be my
(03:05):
face. It will be a new logofeaturing a propeller and a
microphone. So you'll see thatchanging soon.
So when you see that new icon,just stay subscribed and, rest
assured that that is still us.
melissa (03:18):
What do you anticipate will be the biggest challenges
moving forward?
bryan (03:22):
So to be perfectly honest, I think the biggest
challenge is going to be theweekly schedule. It is twice the
work. It's twice the content. Itis also twice the ideas to come
up with. So the audience canhelp us there for sure.
If you have ideas for shows, ifyou have, best of all, actually
a guest in mind, you can reachout to us at the
(03:43):
pilotprojectpodcast@gmail.comor, as we said, on all social
media at at pod pilot project.So, yeah, I think the biggest
challenge is gonna be theworkload, especially with the
show now being weekly, but weare on track to meet our
targets, so I'm not reallyconcerned.
melissa (03:59):
What do you think the biggest opportunities will be
from this partnership?
bryan (04:03):
So there are going to be a ton of new opportunities. So
first, I have a professionalmedia company to help with
branding, advertising, to helpme on business decisions.
Second, they are pros atinterviewing guests and writing
articles. So I know I can askfor help and mentorship on those
fronts. In fact, they've alreadybeen helping me out with coming
up with questions for someguests that we have lined up.
They're also helping me withaccess to guests and show ideas.
(04:26):
And of course, we should seegreat growth by accessing their
readers as a potential audience.
melissa (04:31):
Awesome. So on a personal note, how have things
been since you released from theRCAF in July of twenty twenty
four?
bryan (04:40):
Yeah. So we always like to touch on this, when we do
these kind of little interviewsbetween the two of us. I think
it's important just to kind ofhighlight, the reality of what
it can be like to have a medicalrelease. Honestly, it's been a
wild ride with ups and downs.I've definitely found that it's
important to stick with myrehabilitation plan with mental
health care.
And I've been trying to focus onstaying healthy and healing.
(05:03):
It's definitely a bit of a shockto be out, but I think overall
it's going well. And to behonest, while I do miss being
in, I'm also kind of relishingthe feeling of being my own
person and not being owned bythe military. So there's good
things and there's bad things.There's things I miss for sure,
but it's also nice to be my ownperson again.
melissa (05:24):
Yeah. I think it will really hit us more when we know
more of what our future lookslike, but also once we solidify
where we're going to live nextand what our final move
situation looks like.
bryan (05:36):
For sure. I think once we move, it's going to be a whole
new ballgame. And I honestlythink that's when it's gonna hit
us that I'm out of the militarybecause right now we still live
in the same place. We have thesame friends. We're still
buddies with all the militaryfamilies and stuff.
But once we move, we're notgonna live in a base town for
once. All that's gonna be gone.So I really think that's when
it's gonna hit.
melissa (05:57):
Definitely. What are your goals moving forward with
the podcast?
bryan (06:01):
So I would say the first goal that I have is to keep
producing the same quality ofshow despite the increased,
frequency of episodes. My secondbig goal is the same goal we've
had since the beginning, whichis growth. I really anticipate
that having this partnershipwith Skyes is going to help with
that. They have tens ofthousands of subscribers and I'm
(06:24):
really hoping that we connectwith them as an audience. And of
course, the final big goal willbe to leverage our contacts
through Skies Magazine to getaccess to interesting and high
profile guests.
melissa (06:35):
Which I happen to know you have some on the docket.
bryan (06:39):
Yes. We do have, several high profile guests coming up on
the show. I don't wanna give itaway yet, but, we have at least
three generals coming up on theshow.
melissa (06:50):
So super exciting for those who who like to see where
the future of the RCAF is going.
bryan (06:55):
Yeah. I would say recently, I've really been
conscious of the fact that we'rebeing given access to some
fairly high profile people andhaving that chance to sit down,
ask questions, ask about, youknow, how are things really
working behind the scenes hasbeen a real privilege.
melissa (07:12):
Yeah. It's always helpful when folks who are
removed from that level get kindof that insider view as to why
leadership's making decisionsthey're making and why things
are the way that they are.
bryan (07:23):
Yeah, a %. Okay, Melissa, thanks for joining me for the
first portion of the show. I'mexcited for this new partnership
we're entering into together,and I'm grateful you're along
for the ride with me. So thankyou.
melissa (07:34):
Anytime.
bryan (07:36):
So now let's move on to the main portion of the show
where we will chat with MikeReno, the publisher and owner of
MHM Publishing and all theirpublications, including Skies
Magazine and RCAF Today. Mike,thanks for being on the show,
and I'm excited to chat with youabout your career.
mike (07:50):
Pleasure to be here, Brian.
bryan (07:52):
Before we begin, let's go over Mike's bio. Mike Reno is a
prominent figure in aviationpublishing known for his
extensive experience and passionfor aviation photography. He has
been involved in the aviationpublication industry since the
early 1990s, building afoundation that supports MHM
Publishing's successfulportfolio of award winning
magazines, which he began withhis wife, Linda, in 02/2002.
(08:14):
Mike's journey into aviationbegan when he was just six when
his dad took him to the London,Ontario International Air Show
for the first time in 1976. Bythe time he was 14, he developed
a keen interest in both aviationand photography, which started
to gain him recognition ininternational aviation trade
magazines before landing hisfirst job as the editor of Wings
Magazine in 1996.
(08:35):
Over the years, he has flown innearly 90 different aircraft
types and logged more than onethousand hours of air to air
photography in military andcivil aircraft. As the owner and
publisher of MHM Publishingbased in Kitchener, Ontario,
Mike oversees one of the world'slargest family owned aviation
publishing companies, whichproduces many notable multimedia
aviation brands, includingVertical, Vertical Valor, the
(08:57):
Vertical Helicast PodcastNetwork, Helitrader, Skyes, and
RCIF Today. Recently, MHMPublishing expanded into the
event space with the launch ofthe Vertical MRO Conference, the
first event in the worlddedicated exclusively to
rotorcraft maintenance, repair,and overhaul with upcoming
additions in Kelowna, BC andIrving, Texas. Mike's dedication
(09:17):
to aviation journalism andphotography has made him a
respected authority in thefield, contributing
significantly to thedissemination of aviation
knowledge and the celebration ofaerospace achievements. So,
Mike, we touched on this in yourbio, but what sparked your
passion for aviation?
mike (09:32):
Well, it actually goes back to, well, in 1976 was when
my, my dad took me to the theLondon Airshow. It's always a
joke that I have with my dad isthat he never taught me how to
skate, but he took me to anairshow. So I still don't know
how to skate, but, the airshow,it, it certainly spawned on a
(09:56):
passion for for aviation. Andit's something that really I
think, for some people when theywent to an air show, you know,
they went off, they joined theair force, such as in in your
case. Other peoples went intoother sectors of, of aviation.
But for me, my interest wasgoing into exactly where I am
today. So that was, you know,covering the aviation and
(10:19):
aerospace, sectors, initiallystarting with Canada and then
spreading globally.
bryan (10:25):
Yeah. That's interesting that it was the London Airshow
that sparked that for youbecause the London Airshow is
also the airshow I grew up goingto with my dad. And, it was
totally formative for me. Justit's it was such a great the
London International Airshow forso long was iconic. And then it
kinda went through a slump causethey had a couple bad years with
weather, and then it's I believehas come back and, is doing
(10:47):
quite well again.
So that's really cool.
mike (10:49):
Yeah. It is. It's amazing to see how that show has
progressed. But when you lookat, what air shows have done to
get people interested in the inthe industry, especially into
the into the military. So that'swhy I always figure it's it's
important for, for the air forceto have presence at these air
shows so they can demonstrate toCanadians, like, this is what
(11:10):
you can be part of.
So I think that's, that remainsprobably more important today
than ever.
bryan (11:16):
I think it's a huge recruiting tool. It's a tough
one. Right? Because, resourcesare finite. Yep.
And you have to prioritize thethe operations of the day and
training. But, man, those airshows are super useful, I think,
for recruiting.
mike (11:30):
Absolutely. Yeah. It's just it's, it's unfortunate you
wish you could see, moreparticipation, by the RCAF in
air shows that you would seesome of those communities that
say don't get the recognitionthat they would deserve at
airshows. So for example, youknow, tackle. When do you ever
see a Griffin and a Chinookdemonstration at an airshow?
(11:52):
We we constantly see the CFeighteen demo team or you see
the Snowbirds. But we don't seeare a lot of the lesser
communities, which are also ofgreat interest, for people to be
part of. So I'm hoping that westart to see that change as the
outreach continues for the RCAF.
bryan (12:09):
Yeah. That would be so cool to go to an air show and
see, like, a big formation ofChinooks and Griffins come in or
something like that as ademonstration of, like, how they
would move a large amount oftroops. Like, that would be so
cool.
mike (12:18):
Yeah. Absolutely. So we hope in the coming years that
we'll we'll see some, somechanges when it comes to that.
bryan (12:25):
Yeah. For sure. So how did that passion for aviation
end up being combined withphotography, and how did you
gain recognition in that field?
mike (12:33):
So because of the air show, there was a group of
people that would that wouldcome to the show from The United
States. They came from TheUnited Kingdom. And I just kinda
started to to watch them, andthey would hang out with them.
It was the guys like the the DonSperring. There was Dave Brown.
There's, they were both from TheUS. There was Robbie Shaw from
(12:54):
The UK. At that time, they werevery, very well known within
aviation circles, asphotographers. So I managed to
to kinda, you know, as a kid,get into those circles and and
then got to meet with them andkinda mentor. You know, they
were mentoring me and, you know,this is what you should do.
So I picked up a camera.Actually, I stole my brother's
(13:16):
camera, and took it to the, tookit to the London Air Show. And,
you know, that first, that firstyear, I think maybe one in 30
pictures that I took, turnedout, but it got me started. And
then, you know, year after year,you would you would start to,
you know, slowly get betterbecause, really, the only thing
(13:36):
I was, where I was going for theaviation, I wasn't going to the
airports to hang out at arunway. It was just the air
shows that I was doing at thetime.
So I'd ask a lot of questions.And that's why I always tell
people, I said, ask a lot ofquestions. How do you gain
access? How do you how do youget better at taking pictures?
And keep in mind, back in thosedays, it was all film.
So I didn't know the resultsuntil a week later did something
(13:59):
turn out versus watch someone atan airshow today and you'll you
know, an f 18 will fly by andand then look at all their
heads, look go down and look intheir camera to see, did I get
the shot? We had to wait a week.So one thing led to another, and
then I had my first photo was,was published in a US Navy
publication called Tailhook. Youknow, it was a it's a famous
(14:23):
magazine with the, with the USNavy. So that was where my first
image was was published.
And from that one image, then itjust it snowballed after that.
Because what I had is I was ableto demonstrate that I could get
published. And then what Istarted to do is that I would
take that and I would showsomeone, if it was public
(14:45):
affairs, that you would go tothem and say, hey. Look. I I got
published in this in thismagazine, whatever it was, x y
z.
And, and then it just started tosnowball, and you would start to
ask the questions. Well, how doI get to go flying? How can I go
up in a in a Canadian militaryaircraft? So and then as that
(15:06):
started to build, then I got myfoot in the door.
bryan (15:09):
Mhmm. It's funny you talk about the days of film versus
digital photography. I guess theother difference too is they can
just hold the button down,right, and take, like, a hundred
photos. And, you know, what wasa fill a roll of film? Twenty
twenty four?
Something like that?
mike (15:23):
It was '36.
bryan (15:24):
Thirty '6.
mike (15:26):
It it was '36 that you were that you would take. So,
yeah, you were spending a lot ofmoney on on film.
bryan (15:33):
Yeah. I remember seeing the, Lancaster come into London
One Year, and there was a guydoing aerial photography as many
are at air shows beside us. Andmy dad asked him because the guy
was just holding down the buttonand burning through a roll of
film every pass for theLancaster. And my dad said,
doesn't that get expensive? Andthe guy said, man, if I get one
good shot that
mike (15:52):
I can sell, it's all worth it. Oh, a %. And that's what
they look for is that one thatone shot. Mhmm. You know, we
always get, a lot ofcontributors that are sending in
photos, and they'll send me in.
It could be 30 photos that areall very similar to what they
look. And I'm like, just pickthe one that you like Yeah. And
(16:13):
then send that send that intous. But, yeah, it certainly
changed from from the earlydays, you know, when we, when we
started this.
bryan (16:22):
Yeah. For sure. So can you tell us about your first
experience doing air to airphotography?
mike (16:29):
Yeah. Sure. It, it's funny how it came to be is that,
again, at the air shows, I wouldask crews. And, it was back at
the London Air Show. A lot ofthis all happened at the London
Air Show, and there was a seaking there.
And I was talking to the crew,and I said, you know, how can
you get up in a in a helicopteror an aircraft to to do air to
(16:49):
air photography? And, and thepilot came back and he said, if
you get permission from publicaffairs and you're you're gonna
get published in a magazine,it's usually not too hard of a
process. So armed with that, nowfast forward, and, I'm actually
going to Dalhousie Universitynow in Halifax in, in '91. And
(17:10):
it was my first year, and therewas the Shearwater International
Air Show was, was going on. Italked to the crews there.
And I had a commitment fromEsprit de Corps magazine. Esprit
de Corps magazine was fairly newat the time. And the Sea King,
squadron, so four two three, hadjust returned from Op Friction.
(17:32):
So Gulf War one. Okay.
They had just returned, and theyhad converted I believe it was
eight Sea Kings had beenconverted more into a
surveillance type mission,almost like a utility helicopter
versus the mission of ASW thatthe Sea King is traditionally
known for, conducting thatmission. And, so I approached
them. I said, hey. Can we do astory about the conversion
(17:54):
process of the Sea Kings, whatthe mission of the Sea Kings
were when they were flying with,with the squadron, during the
operation? And I came back, andI got an approval to, to go fly
with him because I had amagazine that would that
committed to, publishing thestory.
So it was a gentleman by thename of lieutenant colonel Larry
McQua. And at that time, Larrywas now the wing opso at
(18:19):
Shearwater, but he waspreviously the CO four two three
squatter. So he basically tookme under his wing and said,
okay. Let's go. So we did abriefing.
This is what we're gonna do forfor the photos, came up with
what we were looking for, andoff we went. So it was, it was
amazing because it was the firsttime where, you know, how do you
(18:41):
talk to, to the crews to say,this is what I want. You know,
I'm a newbie at this and thisyou know, do I tell a pilot that
he's flying too far away, or canhe get closer, all these other
things? So that's basically whenit started was, not long after
the the Shearwater Air Show thathere I am, and I'm flying off
(19:02):
the coast of, Halifax along theshoreline, and I've got another
Sea King flying beside me. Andthat's where it all started.
So what was kind of interestingis that it started with a
helicopter. It went morphed intoother things beyond that, but
here we are today that neverthought it would turn into
vertical, now being the largesthelicopter magazine in the
(19:23):
world, but it all started with ahelicopter. I didn't think it
would go to what it did backthen. But it was four two three
squadron. That's where it allstarted.
bryan (19:33):
No kidding. Did did you pick a helicopter first just
because that's, I would assume,maybe an easier platform for air
to air photography?
mike (19:41):
Yeah. Definitely. I think that that played into it. But
one of the other things thatplayed into it as well is that
and this is what I learned as Istarted getting more and more
immersed into into doing thephotography, is that in in air
forces, who gets the least sortof recognition? It's usually
gonna be anyone from the rotarycommunities.
You know, the helicopter guysdon't get nearly the same sort
(20:02):
of attention as the fightercommunity, for example.
bryan (20:04):
For sure.
mike (20:05):
So what I wanted to do is I wanted to shed the spotlight
on the helicopter communitywithin the, within the air
force. They didn't get therecognition that they deserve.
So I started to tell thosestories. And then that's what
led to then pilots, people, theythey changed squadrons. So, you
know, they would say, hey.
You know, we're flying this. Doyou wanna come and, and fly with
(20:27):
us based on what you did with,you know, previous squadron? So
in Shearwater, then it led to,at that time, there was a
utility squadron there called vu thirty two. And then it was
that squadron, saw the photosthat I did for the Sea King
squadron, and that's where I gotmy first flight in a, in a t 33.
bryan (20:48):
Oh, cool.
mike (20:49):
So flying with VU thirty two. And then I did I flew many,
many times in in the T Bird. Itwas actually it's a it was an
excellent, aircraft to fly infor photography, especially if
you had a good pilot that knewhow to get that big tip tank out
of the photo. But I tell youwhat, that first flight I flew
(21:10):
with v v 32, I thought when Igot out of that aircraft, I am
not flying in a jet againbecause it was I was getting
sick, violently sick, becausewhat you learn is what you see
and what you do. So what you seethrough your lens and what
you're doing and what the planethat you're photographing is
doing is three different thingsthat are happening that you're
(21:31):
trying to process in your brain.
bryan (21:32):
Oh, yeah.
mike (21:33):
And that's what that that's what brings on the
nausea. And, you know, I wasinto it maybe about a half hour.
And then after that, I just I itit it went downhill quickly from
from there. But I learned to getpast it. Over the years, I
learned how to get past, the theair sickness.
And and, actually, I learned itby mistake. And the big thing
(21:55):
was, I was going up in a, in anf 18, and they said your
flight's gonna be later in theday. So I was like, oh, I can go
have lunch. I'm gonna be fine.
bryan (22:05):
Because I
mike (22:05):
would always go up and think, don't eat. You know? It's
just gonna come up. I went andate lunch, and then they said,
oh, you're going now. And I justhad this anxiety, and this fear
came over me as like, oh, no.
This is gonna be horrible. And Inever got sick.
bryan (22:19):
Yeah.
mike (22:19):
And then from there on, I knew, have a nice meal before
you go fly, and you won't getsick. And that's how I learned
to to combat the airsicknessproblem.
bryan (22:28):
I never would have even thought about that. But once you
explain it, like, the the threesensations, the what you're
seeing, what the other plane isdoing, what your plane is doing,
that would absolutely combine tomake most people sick.
mike (22:41):
Oh, it's yeah. It it's horrible. And especially when
you're when you're lookingthrough that lens, you just
you're not associating whatdirections things are going. You
could be inverted. You've beengoing straight up, but you're
just focused in on that on thataircraft that you're taking
photos of.
So, yeah, it's it's, severaldifferent senses that are that
(23:03):
are happening at the same time.
bryan (23:05):
For sure. So you started getting your foot in the door
with these various squadrons.How did you end up landing that
job editing for Wings Magazinein 1996? Because I'd imagine
that was a pretty big deal foryou.
mike (23:16):
That was huge, especially for, for someone like myself
where I didn't when I went touniversity, I I took political
science. I I wasn't takinganything in in the world of
journalism. But actually, whatgot me to that point, I have to
to give credit to, to some folksin the, in the public affairs
within the RCAF. John Blakely,he was public affairs for
(23:40):
Maritime Air Group. At thattime, Maritime Air Group
existed, which included anythinghad to do with Aurora or, or
seeking.
And the and, four three foursquadron became part of that
view thirty two. And And theykinda took me under their under
their wings. So they reallyhelped me, build, I guess, the
awareness in the RCAF. Theyhelped me with the the stories.
(24:03):
They helped give me that access.
So with that in hand, as I builtthat up, I was getting more
stories out there. So in '90,'94 is when I first started
writing for Wings as afreelancer. So I started with,
with them. They used to do anannual, air force special, and I
was part of that. And one of thefirst stories that, that we that
(24:27):
we wrote about, had to do with abig, counter drug operation that
had gone on.
It was the the name of theoperation escapes me now, but it
was a massive undertaking by, bythe RCAF. Actually, it was one
wing that really, wasinstrumental in this, and it was
a, a cargo aircraft. And Iforget what the tonnage of of
(24:51):
marijuana was that they, thatthey intercepted, but this was
the first story that I that Idid for wings. So I started
doing, all the militarycoverage, for Wings. And this
was actually thanks to LarryMilbury, who is very well known
in RCAF circles as well as awell known author and military
historian.
bryan (25:10):
Mhmm.
mike (25:11):
So he kind of paved the way for me. So I started writing
for for Wings. And then I had, Ihad moved out to Vancouver. I
chased Linda at that time. Weweren't married.
I chased her out to toVancouver, and you couldn't
really make a goal out of it.And then we decided we're gonna
move back to Ontario, but Ididn't have a job to come back
to. So I stopped in Calgary,which is where Wings was based
(25:33):
out of, and I pitched them theidea. I said, listen. Why don't
why don't you let me come on,full time that I can start
covering not just the military,but I can start doing covering
other facets of Canadianaviation.
At that time, they had Wingsmagazine and they had
Helicopters magazine. So Ipitched them the idea. I had
(25:55):
made, I guess, a good impressionon them with everything they had
done. They're pretty impressedwith all the access I was
getting, within the air forceand elsewhere now in Canadian
aviation. So they said, yeah,let's do it.
So then I, I took on that, fulltime position with Wings.
bryan (26:15):
Were you nervous at all walking in there to kind of sell
yourself to the magazine?
mike (26:19):
Oh, yeah. Because they never at that time, if I recall,
they didn't have anyone that wasa full time writer. Everyone was
always a, a freelance writer atthe time. But one of the things
that I learned, was that if youdon't ask, how are you going to
know? And that's how Iapproached everything that I did
(26:40):
with, well, with everything I'vedone.
But with the Air Force, I justkept on asking those questions.
Hey, You know, I I flew in this.Can I fly in that? To do a
story. But what was washappening is that they saw that
by asking those questions or bygranting me that access, this
this wasn't because so Mike cango for a joyride in the back of
(27:01):
an f 18 or an f five or whateverit was.
They saw the results of what wasbeing produced. So it was, it
was being published in themagazine. It was building
awareness, about the Air Force.So that's why I continued to get
that sort of access. I rememberthis was back at the London Air
(27:21):
Show, and there's gonna be a lotof stories that always go back
to the London Air Show.
One of the things that Iremembered at the time is that a
lot of those photographers thatthat I had met from The US and
The UK, One of the things Inoted is that none of them did
this as a full time career. Somewere, you know, police officer.
One was an air trafficcontroller. Like, they all had
(27:43):
their own jobs that they did.But I was like, there's gotta be
a way you can do this full time.
I mean, I really I love doingit. I said, there's gotta be a
way I can do this full time. Sothat's where I started to
separate myself, and it goesback to I asked those questions
that no one else would ask. Howdo I get the access to things?
So one of the things I learnedis keep keep your mouth shut and
don't tell people what you'redoing.
(28:05):
So here I am at the London AirShow, but before the show, I
knew that four three sevensquadron was showing up with the
tanker. At that time, it was theCC one thirty seven. They were
coming with the tanker, and theywere gonna do a demo with an f
18 and an f five off each wing.So I reached out to the
squadron. I said, hey.
You guys are gonna be at theLondon Air Show. What are the
odds that I could get on theaircraft to do some photos? So,
(28:27):
again, I had some photos underthat were published under my
belt, and I shared that withthem. And here I am at the
London Airshow, and I don't saya word. And, so the crew comes
out from doing their, theirbriefing, and I believe that the
pilot at the time was majorSteve Jenkins.
I think that's who it was. And,I talked to him before. No one
knew I was talking to him. Andthey come out, and I'm standing
(28:47):
in with a group ofphotographers. And, and Steve
looks at me.
He goes, alright, Mike. Let'sgo. And and I just walk out from
the crowd, and I'm walking outto this tanker. And all the
looks on all the other faces andthere's probably 12 of them
standing there like, where thehell is Reno going? And out to
the tanker, I walk, and I getin, and no one knew that I was
(29:08):
doing it.
So that was what I learned as Iasked the asked the the right
question to the right person. Alot of it has to do with timing.
And then it was being able toillustrate that, hey. Like, I'm
producing content about whateverit is I was doing. Mhmm.
So I wasn't a fan favorite whenI got off that tanker after that
(29:28):
flight. So but, but that's howthat's how I learned. Just ask
the questions.
bryan (29:35):
I used to fly with a guy who would say that the most
important three letters in thealphabet are a s k. Yeah. Don't
ask, don't get.
mike (29:43):
Exactly. And that's and that's a %. You just ask the
questions. And and how do you goabout doing that? And it opens
so many doors.
And I have to say too is that itwas all about timing. Like, now
to do what I did then, I thinkit would be a lot more difficult
to try that, say, today. Mhmm.It's it's the the, it's just
(30:04):
more difficult because you can'tfly, Civilians can't fly in a
lot of the aircraft anymore.Like Mhmm.
You can't fly in a c f acivilian can't fly in the CF 18
anymore. It needs US statedepartment approval for a
civilian to fly in the Hornet,for example. But it's just the
barriers to entry there. There'sa lot more than what there used
to be.
bryan (30:24):
For sure. And everything now is kind of, I think it's
more, there's more bureaucracyaround taking a passenger in
general. Like there's layerlayers of approval that have to
happen and it's it's a lot morethe the days of, hey. Can can I
come with you guys today? Andthen just walking on board are
are long gone.
mike (30:43):
Absolutely. And the thing is now is that, you know,
there's there's so manydifferent ways of disseminating
information. You know, at thattime, it was a magazine. That's
all basically, that's all therewas is that you were
disseminating the informationthrough through a magazine or or
other printed media sources.Look at the many ways that you
can disseminate informationtoday from what we're doing
(31:04):
right now in a podcast to socialmedia channels or whatever.
But, you know, the Air Force islooking to say, okay, well,
where are we gonna do you havejust a a Facebook page or an
Instagram page that, hey, we'regonna provide you with this
access? Or is there more thatyou're reaching a greater
audience and not just aviationenthusiasts?
bryan (31:24):
Mhmm. So we've talked about it a little bit already,
but can you tell us about thefirst time you flew in a
military jet?
mike (31:31):
Yeah. So it was, like I said earlier, it was with v
thirty two at Shearwater. And,it's funny. The the the pilot I
flew with was, Chris Conway.And, Chris is out of the air
force now, but I still bump intohim on a on a regular basis.
And it doesn't matter who I'mtalking to, but the first thing
(31:53):
out of Chris's mouth when hesees me, he looks at whoever I'm
standing with, and he says, oh,I'm the guy that popped Mike's
cherry in the back of a T Bird.It's like it's just it it it
always happens. But, you know,it was amazing because you had
to go through, several differentprocesses to be able to get into
the back seat of a of a t 33. SoI had to take the high altitude
(32:15):
indoctrination course. At thattime, it was in, it was in
Greenwood, so I had to gothrough that.
And then, of course, when you goto the squadron, then you have
to to learn how to, you know,you're learning the safety
system. So All the LC stuff.Seats. You know, all the LC
stuff. So you're learning allthis.
But keep in mind, at that time,I'm this 22 year old kid that's
(32:36):
going, okay. I gotta learn howto eject out of this aircraft,
and all everything else thatgoes along with it. So once I
got past that, and it's thelevel of anxiety, you know, when
you're going up in your firstfast jet, But the squadron was
awesome. You know, the the theyreally, bring you into the fold,
(32:58):
and they're just like, okay,let's just go with it. But then,
like I said, the, the airsickness comes on, and then it's
not as fun as as it was when youtook off, but but it was still
an amazing experience.
And that's that's how itstarted. And it really started
with those first people thatwere willing to entrust me to do
(33:19):
the things that I started to doby flying in their aircraft.
Mhmm. And and it was really athat was the turning point where
it was like, okay, these guystrust me to to get in the
aircraft. And then it was alsoit wasn't like an aviation geek
is coming into the back of theaircraft, and that's all I can I
can talk about?
No. It was I came and I treatedit professionally of that. Hey.
(33:44):
Yeah. This is fun.
I'm flying in the back of of anaircraft, but this is also the
tool that I need to do the jobthat I have to do. And that's
how I approached it.
bryan (33:54):
So you experienced a significant milestone with one
of my favorite jets, which isthe CF five Freedom Fighter. How
did you end up being the lastcivilian to fly in one?
mike (34:04):
Well, so I'm gonna hit rewind for just a sec to say how
I got into the CF five, thefirst flight. Four nineteen
squadron was was flying them atthe time. And, again, it goes
back to because one of the guyswas on the t bird squadron. He
was now at four nineteensquadron, and then I got the
access. So the first flight Iwent on, in the CF five, it was
(34:28):
for the four students.
So we took up six CF fives. Soit was, four a models and two, d
models. So two, two seataircraft. I'm in I'm in the back
of one. And this was their firsttraining exercise to do air to
air refueling.
So it was the CC one thirtyseven, and we launched out of
Cold Lake. And here I am flyingwith five other f fives with a
(34:53):
tanker, and these guys are alllearning how to plug for the
first time into the into thebasket. So it was a pretty
incredible experience, to watchthese guys. Now in the in the
two c f five, you couldn't doair to air refueling, so I'm
just watching the the singleseaters do it. So so it was
pretty amazing.
And then I did, I believe I didabout three or four flights in
the in the f five. But how Ibecame to be the last civilian
(35:16):
to fly in the c f five, it wasjust coincidence. I, 80, was
doing some they were doingtesting, and it was a new
targeting pod. It was actuallythe first targeting pod for the
f 18 at the time. Okay.
The name of the targeting podsuddenly escapes me, but it was
(35:36):
the early you know, it's wherehow it's it's not the sniper
pod, but it was
bryan (35:40):
Yeah. The one before.
mike (35:42):
Yeah. And I can't remember what it was called. But, anyway,
they wanted to do photos of thef 18 that AT was doing trials on
that had that pod on it. And wecouldn't fly in another f 18 for
whatever reason, so they said,hey. We're gonna put you in an f
five.
I was like, perfect. Not aproblem. The problem is is that
(36:04):
the performance between an ffive and an f 18 are much, much
different, which, which Ilearned as we're trying to do
these, you know, straight upclimbs, trying to get the f 18
to roll. And then, basically,we're doing a tail slide in an f
five, which,
bryan (36:17):
oh,
mike (36:18):
I've never done a tail slide in a fighter jet before.
So that was quite a exhilaratingexperience. So it was only soon
after that, I believe it waswithin six months that the f
five was, was retired.
bryan (36:32):
Okay.
mike (36:34):
So and that's why I ended up being the last civilian to to
fly in it. But I can tell youthat when we were done that
photo shoot, I got toexperience, the true performance
of an f five flying over theCold Lake Air Weapons Range. You
know, flying at low level, inthe f five, I mean, that's the
environment that it'd like tolive. Mhmm. But this was I
(36:55):
believe it was later in thewinter, so it was really bumpy
ride.
You had those thermals comingoff the trees because the sun's
out, but you had the snow. Andit was bumpy, and we were we
were right down on the deck. Butit was pretty amazing flight,
for my last flight in the ffive.
bryan (37:10):
So Yeah. That would be so cool.
mike (37:12):
Oh, it was it was amazing. Yeah.
bryan (37:14):
Yeah. I think you're very fortunate to have been in that
aircraft. I would have loved tofly in one of those, so that's
awesome.
mike (37:20):
Yeah. That was one of my that was one of my favorite, you
know, at that time to be able tofly in that aircraft.
bryan (37:25):
I mean, it's just such a it's such a great looking
fighter.
mike (37:29):
Yeah. It's it's a sexy fighter. Right? Yeah. That's
what it what it did.
It was, it was small small butmighty Yeah. With what it, what
its capabilities were.
bryan (37:37):
Yeah. For sure. Your experience with fighters
continued, and you were able toaccumulate the most backseat
time in a CF 18 of any civilianphotographer. What is the
coolest experience you had in anf 18?
mike (37:50):
I had several several cool experiences in the, in the f
eighteen. What what kinda got mymy foot in the door with the
with the f eighteen community,again, everyone's seeing the the
photography they have done. Itstarted with the demo jets. So
Jim Beliveau, everyone knows hewas the one that was, was
(38:12):
painting all the the jets. Thatwould be the the demonstration
team for the year, and that'swhere it started.
So I started photographing thedemo jets. I think I
photographed 12 or 14 demo jetsover the years. All by, I think,
two were were painted by, by Jimand his team. So I did a lot of
(38:36):
interesting flights in theHornet. A lot of times what
would happen is that because Ihad built up time in the Hornet,
the pilots would put me onmissions that they wouldn't
typically put a civilian on,especially if if a photographer
because these missions, it goesback to that air sickness.
Like, they would ask me, okay.Can you handle, basic fighter
(38:57):
maneuvers? Can you handle ifwe're going in and we're doing
ground attack? Can you handlethat stuff? Mhmm.
I mean, I would say yes. But atthe same time, it was like, oh,
no. I hope hope I can hold itall in
bryan (39:07):
Yeah.
mike (39:08):
Because it's some pretty aggressive flying that that's
going on. And I and I canhonestly say that at some point,
it's not fun. Yeah. It's not funwhen you're when you're doing
some of this and when you're apassenger. If if you're the one
in control, hey.
It's it's a lot of fun. But whenyou're in the back holding on,
it's it's not a lot of fun.
bryan (39:23):
It's work.
mike (39:24):
It it's it is work, and it's trying to know and try to
see how things are happeningahead before they before they
happen. So, you know, some ofthe fun things that I did is
that I would go up and I woulddo BFM. That was a lot of fun.
One of the ones where we wentout into a a live weapons range,
I went out with, AT. This isanother time I flew with with
(39:46):
AT.
And we went out. They had justpainted their CF 18 in AT
colors. And they, they wanted meto get pictures of that with
their tutor that was alsopainted in new AT colors. But I
convinced them to put some somerockets and bombs on the jets.
So I was in another f 18, andthey put CRV seven rockets on on
(40:08):
our jet.
And we had, I think it was Mark80 twos, but they were just dumb
bombs, concrete bombs. And, sowe went out, and I'm I was
photographing them, firingrockets on the range, and then I
had the opportunity to fire therockets on ours as well.
bryan (40:24):
Oh, wow.
mike (40:24):
So that yeah. So that was something that was pretty
different. It wasn't long afterthat that the CRV seven rocket
was that was phased out. So thatwas a lot of fun to be able to
do those types of missions, andI did quite a few of those. You
know, there's a couple timeswhere you would come back from a
mission, and they would theywould put me up on a mission,
and they would hot fuel, andthey would just tell me, stay in
(40:45):
the back of the jet.
You'll go up on the nextmission. So I did that a couple
of times. But I would say,actually, my my most memorable
flight, I wasn't in the Hornet.I was beside the Hornet, and I
was in a hawk. But what I wasphotographing, it was five f
eighteens, at a cold lake.
And this was actually, it was02/2018. So what made this a
(41:08):
memorable flight is theconnection with the Reno name.
So it was 02/2018, '4 zero '1squadron was celebrating its
hundredth anniversary. It wasalso the same year that NORAD
was celebrating its sixtiethanniversary. So it's not widely
known that the Reno name, has,some history in the RCAF.
(41:33):
So I had a distant relative. Hisname was Edwin Reno, and Edwin
flew with number one RCAFsquadron during the during the
Battle of Britain. Number oneRCAF squadron became four zero
one squadron when Canadaaccepted all the 400 series
squadrons, during World War two.
bryan (41:52):
Okay.
mike (41:52):
So he flew a he flew a, a hurricane during the Battle of
Britain. And then after theBattle of Britain, Edwin was
transferred, back to Canada. Heserved a number of training
squadrons, before he was madewing commander in Greenwood in
1944. I believe, it still holdstoday. He was wing commander at
27 years old.
(42:13):
He was the youngest wingcommander ever in the RCAF.
bryan (42:15):
That's crazy.
mike (42:16):
K. So that so that was in 1944. But then he rose through
the ranks over the years. He waspromoted to he went on to be
promoted to air vice marshal,and then he made chief of air
staff for fourth Allied TacticalAir Force in NATO. So he made
his way up to that position.
Then he was promoted to airmarshal in July of sixty six, I
(42:39):
believe. And then he was hisfinal promotion was to an air
marshal, but he also served asthe deputy commander of NORAD
between 1969 and 1972.
bryan (42:51):
Oh, wow.
mike (42:51):
So so here I am flying in the skies over Cold Lake, and
I've got, four jets from fourzero one squadron, and all of
them are armed. So we had twojets were launched from the,
from the queue, from the quickreaction alert facility in Cold
Lake. They came up with a with atypical NORAD, loadout. I had
(43:12):
two more f eighteens that werelaunched from 401 that they were
armed in a similar air to airmission loadout. And then I had
the sixtieth anniversary CFeighteen that was painted for
NORAD.
And there we are flying with,with the NORAD jets and four
zero one squadron. So we do themission, which we're we were up
(43:32):
for, it was 2.2. And, flying inthe Hawk, that's an incredibly
long, period of time to be ableto fly, but we are literally
throttled back. People thinkwhen you're doing these air to
air photos that you're flyingat, you know, 400 knots and it's
not. You're you're throttledback.
A lot of times, you might noteven be 300 knots when you're
doing these photos. But whatmade it special is we came back
(43:57):
and, I'm talking with the CO,lieutenant colonel, Forrest
Rock. I mean, there's a fighterpilot's name if you ever heard
of it, but Forrest Rock was the,he was the, commanding officer
at the time. And we're talkingabout, you know, the history of
of Edwin. And honest to God,we're in the mess.
And I look over at the wall andthere's a picture of Edwin on
(44:20):
the wall looking back And I go,that that's Edwin right there.
So, you know, we do thismission, and we come back, and
you're in the mess, and there'sa picture of Edwin on the wall.
So that was, that was a coolmoment for me. And for the
squadron, they didn't realizethe connection. So that was,
that was probably the mostmemorable air to air shoot I
(44:40):
ever did.
It almost didn't come to be. Ioriginally went out there, and
it was I had the idea, hey. It'sNORAD's anniversary. Let's put
up some armed jets so we canillustrate to Canadians that,
you know, CF eighteens aren'tpainted in these pretty colors
all the time. They're they'repainted gray.
(45:00):
They carry weapons. And, so Ipitched the idea to, to command
to say, hey, let's put up acouple of armed f eighteens to
show what NORAD's about. So itwas approved. But when I, the
day before we were doing the thephoto shoot, the, the wing or
the squadron opso called. He wasa US Marine Corps exchange
(45:25):
pilot, and he said, listen,Mike.
He said, I'm sorry. You've gotthe demo jet to shoot. He goes,
but you just lost all the otherf eighteens due to operational
commitments Uh-huh. Which was ithappens. It's it's happened to
me many times.
I'm sure it happened to you manytimes when you're flying the
Aurora. And, and then I get acall from, from the commanding
officer's squadron Forest Rock,and he said, Mike, leave it with
(45:46):
me. We're gonna we're gonnafigure this out. I walked into
the briefing the next day, and Iwas just expecting, you know,
the one f 18 pilot. Well, therewas five.
And he said, well, Mike, hesaid, I didn't get you, you
know, another f 18. I got youfour more. So and because what
they did is they said, hey,let's make this work. Every day,
you would launch the QJets as aas part of a training training
(46:08):
mission. So he so they justworked it out that we're gonna
launch the QJets during yourflight your planned flight with
the demo jet, and we've got twoother jets that have to go up on
a training mission anyway.
So we took basically, we tookall these training missions, and
we brought them together to dothis, to do this photo flight.
bryan (46:26):
Wow. What a story.
mike (46:28):
Yeah. It was pretty incredible. But it also again,
it goes back to these guyswanted to make sure that they
were getting, you know, gettingin the magazines. And we did a
big story on on both, on NORAD'ssixtieth and on the, on the
squadron's, hundredthanniversary.
bryan (46:43):
Yeah. It was kind of a everybody wins situation.
mike (46:46):
Oh, a %. And and I'll tell you, like, these these were some
of the well, the picture thatyou're looking at right now,
that was from that photo shootwith four zero one. But there's
a an example where it was it wasone of the I would say it was
not challenging, but it was oneof the most well organized photo
(47:06):
shoots we'd ever done because wehad a lot of jets moving in a
lot of different directions. Andto try and organize that when
you're doing everyone's seenthose typical photos where the
jets are doing splits and you'vegot one jet pulling up into a
vertical. You got one jet that'scoming at you.
That's a lot to do, and you'veonly got maybe three seconds to
(47:27):
get that photo. Wait. Becausewhen that split starts, within
three seconds, everyone's out offrame. Mhmm. Then you're you go
wings level, and then you comeback in, and then you you
continue with your next photo.
So so that was a pretty special,pretty special photo shoot for
me.
bryan (47:40):
Yeah. That's, that's interesting. And for the
listeners, what we'll have to dois get Mike when we publish this
episode and we promote it onsocial media, we'll have to get
Mike to send us some of thesephotos so you guys can see them
because it's, he's got it up inthe background and it's, it's
very cool. So how many squadronsand fleets from the RCAF have
you flown with?
mike (48:00):
So I have flown with every single squadron in the RCAF
minus four eighteen squadron,and that's only because they
were recently stood up in, inComox. And I have not flown in
the Cyclone, and I have notflown in the, Husky nor the
Kingfisher.
bryan (48:19):
Okay.
mike (48:20):
So those three aircraft are the only ones that
bryan (48:22):
So the the new ones, basically, like, the very new
ones.
mike (48:25):
Yeah. Basically, the new ones because, I'm just simply
not doing as much flying as Iused to.
intro (48:32):
Right.
mike (48:33):
So you kinda think of that career progression in the air
force is that you started to sayas a lieutenant, you're a
captain, and you're flying lots.But as you continue to move up
the ranks, the amount of flyingthat you do starts to decrease.
bryan (48:46):
For sure.
mike (48:47):
And then before you know it, you're flying a desk. And
that's essentially what'shappened to me is that as as MHM
Publishing has grown into whatit is, you know, we have 24 full
time employees with all thebrands that we have. It's harder
for me to get out as much as Iused to.
bryan (49:03):
Yeah. That makes
mike (49:05):
sense. And I do miss it. I I I miss it. I miss getting out
there. But having said that,we've got some incredible people
that are kind of filling thatthat void.
Mhmm. You know, when we startedthis call, I was telling you
that, we have Derek Hayes up at,up in the up in the Arctic. So
he's up there, and that'ssomething that I would have done
(49:27):
in the past. So, I'm sureeventually I might get into one
or two of those aircraft, butI'll leave it to those guys to
do that now.
bryan (49:37):
So of all the aircraft you've flown in, what was your
favorite? Probably a toughquestion.
mike (49:44):
It's a tough question, but I I tell you what, and people
might be surprised when I saythis. I'm gonna say the c 17.
bryan (49:51):
Oh, yeah?
mike (49:52):
Yeah. I'm gonna say the c 17 because it is one of those
things because I've had the thefortunate opportunity to
experience flying in all theaircraft. So I've flown in the
fighters. I've I've flown withthe snowbirds. I mean, you know,
they've all been incredibleexperiences that I've had.
But the c 17 is a surprisebecause it's an amazing
(50:12):
aircraft. And when you seeyou're sitting in the jump seat,
on a c 17 and they're flyingthat like an f 18, it's
incredible. So the best flight Ihad, it was the, the commanding
officer of four two ninesquadron at the time. He was
doing his annual proficiencycheck. So it was a low level
route that we were doing, and itwas incredible.
(50:35):
Like, the whole flight were werelow level. I don't think we were
above 500 feet the whole timeflying North of Trenton, flying
over Algonquin. And, and we had75 paratroopers in the back Oh,
wow. Of the aircraft as well,which I'm starting to feel a
little nausea coming on. And I'mstanding, you know, behind the
jump seat with all these nicewindows to look at, and you've
(50:58):
got all these paratroopers inthe back that they were they
were getting ill because we flewbefore we we dropped them out of
the aircraft.
I believe we were flying forabout an hour and a half.
bryan (51:08):
Low level?
mike (51:09):
Low level the whole time.
bryan (51:11):
That's rough. That's rough.
mike (51:12):
It was it was really rough. So it was part of the
part of the mission. They'rekicking out the the paratroopers
over Mountain View, but thenthey also go in to land at
Mountain View. And I can'tremember the the the length of
the runway that's in MountainView, but it's essentially just
long enough for the c 17. Yeah.
So to bring that aircraft in,they're landing it like you're
(51:35):
landing on a carrier. And thenthe funny part of that mission
was that, at the end of therunway, it's not big enough for
a c 17 to turn around. So it'skinda like doing the the the 20
turn to turn the c 17 around sowe could take off. But when
you're sitting in that jump seatand they go full power and, and
you're going down the runway andthen they they pull up, it's
(51:58):
it's incredible. You can't pullyourself out of the seat.
So it's really it's a it's anincredible aircraft, especially
when you look at the size ofthat Mhmm. That you're flying.
So that was actually, I wouldsay, the my favorite aircraft to
fly in. And part of that too isbecause you're not you're not
with all these straps like youare in a in a fighter. Right?
(52:20):
So it's a little bit moremobility.
intro (52:22):
Yep.
mike (52:23):
But, yeah, that was pretty, that was a pretty
awesome flight.
bryan (52:26):
Yeah. The c 17 is such a cool aircraft. If you've ever
seen you were talking about theshort field capabilities. If
anyone of the listeners has beenlucky enough to see it at an
airshow where they demo thatstuff, especially in a case like
yours where it's empty, theshort field landing and the
short field takeoff capabilitiesare insane. Like, you would
never believe that an aircraftof that size could do that in
(52:47):
such a short distance.
mike (52:49):
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that's what's it's incredible
about that. And I and I thinkthat, they haven't done too many
demos with the aircraft.
If anything, you always see theUS Air Force come up to the air
shows, and you see them do theirdemo routines. But you have a
team dedicated specifically todoing, you know, air show
routines with that. Yep. But,yeah, it's truly, truly amazing
(53:10):
aircraft. It's too bad we don'thave more of them.
bryan (53:12):
Yeah. I think the, the crews would agree with that.
They're they're always indemand.
mike (53:17):
Oh, yeah. I I believe that they are probably one of the
most tasked aircraft in the, inthe RCF fleet.
bryan (53:24):
Yeah. Without a doubt. Okay, Mike. That's gonna wrap up
part one of our chat. Thanks somuch for your time today, and
thanks for, being on the show.
And I'm looking forward to thenext one.
mike (53:33):
Great. Looking forward to it, Brian.
bryan (53:36):
Alright. That wraps up our merger announcement as well
as the first part of our chatwith Mike Reno. Listeners can
check out our next episode wherewe will finish talking to Mike
all about his career flying airto air photography with the
RCAF, including his manyadventures and stories, as well
as how they got into thepublishing game. Do you have any
questions or comments aboutanything you've heard in this
(53:56):
episode? Would you or someoneyou know make a great guest, or
do you have an idea for a show?
You can reach out to us at thepilotprojectpodcast@gmail.com or
on all social media at atpodpilotproject. Listeners
should also check out our socialmedia channels to see our many
awesome videos featuring RCAFaircraft. As always, we'd like
to thank you for listening tothe show and ask for your help
(54:18):
with the big three. That's likeand follow us on social media,
share with your friends, andfollow us and rate us five stars
wherever you get your podcasts.That's all for now.
Thanks for listening. Keep theblue side up. See you.
Alright. We're ready for departure here at the Pilot
Project podcast, the best sourcefor stories and advice from RCAF
and Mission Aviation Pilotsbrought to you by Skies
Magazine. I'm your host, BrianMorrison. And today, we're going
to do things a littledifferently. For the first half
of part one of this chat, mywife and editor, Melissa, will
be asking me a few questionsregarding an exciting
announcement we have.
(00:49):
For the second half, we will sitdown with Mike Reno, publisher
and owner of Vertical Valor,Vertical Marketplace, Skyes,
RCAF Today, eVTOL.com, InsightMagazines, and Vertical MRO
Conference, all under MHMPublishing to begin discussing
his career in aviationphotography. Melissa, thank you
for joining me today. And onceagain, putting yourself behind a
(01:10):
microphone.
melissa (01:11):
Thanks for having me back. So, Brian, you have an
exciting announcement for thepodcast. Can you tell us about
it?
bryan (01:18):
Yeah. As of March 18, we will become a weekly podcast
partnered with Skies Magazine.
melissa (01:25):
How do you feel about this partnership with Skies
Magazine?
bryan (01:29):
Well, when I first talked with, Mike, the owner of MHM
Publishing, who also does, SkyMagazine in the summer, I was,
very humbled when he put forththe idea of becoming a weekly
show and officially partneringwith Skies magazine. But now
that it's really coming toreality, I'm getting really
excited about it.
melissa (01:48):
What will be changing for the show, and what will stay
the same?
bryan (01:51):
So basically, the show is gonna stay the same. We're gonna
aim to put out the same qualityof show that we've always put
out. We're still gonna befocused on the RCAF, but we are
gonna add new types of content.So you'll notice that the new
intro says, the best source forstories and advice from RCAF and
Mission Aviation Pilots. SoMission Aviation for us is
basically first responders.
It's police, it's firefighting,it's medevac. It's also coast
(02:15):
guard search and rescue. So anykind of aviation that's mission
based. The other thing that'sgoing to change is we are going
to start running advertising inthe show. There's going to be
two or three ads in each show,and that's basically helping us
keep the lights on while weproduce the show.
melissa (02:30):
Awesome. So not much change for the listener?
bryan (02:32):
No. For the listener, it's gonna be pretty
transparent. The other bigchange of course is that it'll
be weekly. So they'll get evenmore content from us.
melissa (02:40):
Awesome. Is there anything else that will change?
bryan (02:44):
Yeah. One thing that listeners are gonna notice,
especially if they are checkingout our social media, which they
should for sure, because we putout regular content, cool videos
with great quotes from the show,and you can follow that at
podpilotproject, of course, isthat our branding is changing.
So you're gonna notice that thelogo will soon no longer be my
(03:05):
face. It will be a new logofeaturing a propeller and a
microphone. So you'll see thatchanging soon.
So when you see that new icon,just stay subscribed and, rest
assured that that is still us.
melissa (03:18):
What do you anticipate will be the biggest challenges
moving forward?
bryan (03:22):
So to be perfectly honest, I think the biggest
challenge is going to be theweekly schedule. It is twice the
work. It's twice the content. Itis also twice the ideas to come
up with. So the audience canhelp us there for sure.
If you have ideas for shows, ifyou have, best of all, actually
a guest in mind, you can reachout to us at the
(03:43):
pilotprojectpodcast@gmail.comor, as we said, on all social
media at at pod pilot project.So, yeah, I think the biggest
challenge is gonna be theworkload, especially with the
show now being weekly, but weare on track to meet our
targets, so I'm not reallyconcerned.
melissa (03:59):
What do you think the biggest opportunities will be
from this partnership?
bryan (04:03):
So there are going to be a ton of new opportunities. So
first, I have a professionalmedia company to help with
branding, advertising, to helpme on business decisions.
Second, they are pros atinterviewing guests and writing
articles. So I know I can askfor help and mentorship on those
fronts. In fact, they've alreadybeen helping me out with coming
up with questions for someguests that we have lined up.
They're also helping me withaccess to guests and show ideas.
(04:26):
And of course, we should seegreat growth by accessing their
readers as a potential audience.
melissa (04:31):
Awesome. So on a personal note, how have things
been since you released from theRCAF in July of twenty twenty
four?
bryan (04:40):
Yeah. So we always like to touch on this, when we do
these kind of little interviewsbetween the two of us. I think
it's important just to kind ofhighlight, the reality of what
it can be like to have a medicalrelease. Honestly, it's been a
wild ride with ups and downs.I've definitely found that it's
important to stick with myrehabilitation plan with mental
health care.
And I've been trying to focus onstaying healthy and healing.
(05:03):
It's definitely a bit of a shockto be out, but I think overall
it's going well. And to behonest, while I do miss being
in, I'm also kind of relishingthe feeling of being my own
person and not being owned bythe military. So there's good
things and there's bad things.There's things I miss for sure,
but it's also nice to be my ownperson again.
melissa (05:24):
Yeah. I think it will really hit us more when we know
more of what our future lookslike, but also once we solidify
where we're going to live nextand what our final move
situation looks like.
bryan (05:36):
For sure. I think once we move, it's going to be a whole
new ballgame. And I honestlythink that's when it's gonna hit
us that I'm out of the militarybecause right now we still live
in the same place. We have thesame friends. We're still
buddies with all the militaryfamilies and stuff.
But once we move, we're notgonna live in a base town for
once. All that's gonna be gone.So I really think that's when
it's gonna hit.
melissa (05:57):
Definitely. What are your goals moving forward with
the podcast?
bryan (06:01):
So I would say the first goal that I have is to keep
producing the same quality ofshow despite the increased,
frequency of episodes. My secondbig goal is the same goal we've
had since the beginning, whichis growth. I really anticipate
that having this partnershipwith Skyes is going to help with
that. They have tens ofthousands of subscribers and I'm
(06:24):
really hoping that we connectwith them as an audience. And of
course, the final big goal willbe to leverage our contacts
through Skies Magazine to getaccess to interesting and high
profile guests.
melissa (06:35):
Which I happen to know you have some on the docket.
bryan (06:39):
Yes. We do have, several high profile guests coming up on
the show. I don't wanna give itaway yet, but, we have at least
three generals coming up on theshow.
melissa (06:50):
So super exciting for those who who like to see where
the future of the RCAF is going.
bryan (06:55):
Yeah. I would say recently, I've really been
conscious of the fact that we'rebeing given access to some
fairly high profile people andhaving that chance to sit down,
ask questions, ask about, youknow, how are things really
working behind the scenes hasbeen a real privilege.
melissa (07:12):
Yeah. It's always helpful when folks who are
removed from that level get kindof that insider view as to why
leadership's making decisionsthey're making and why things
are the way that they are.
bryan (07:23):
Yeah, a %. Okay, Melissa, thanks for joining me for the
first portion of the show. I'mexcited for this new partnership
we're entering into together,and I'm grateful you're along
for the ride with me. So thankyou.
melissa (07:34):
Anytime.
bryan (07:36):
So now let's move on to the main portion of the show
where we will chat with MikeReno, the publisher and owner of
MHM Publishing and all theirpublications, including Skies
Magazine and RCAF Today. Mike,thanks for being on the show,
and I'm excited to chat with youabout your career.
mike (07:50):
Pleasure to be here, Brian.
bryan (07:52):
Before we begin, let's go over Mike's bio. Mike Reno is a
prominent figure in aviationpublishing known for his
extensive experience and passionfor aviation photography. He has
been involved in the aviationpublication industry since the
early 1990s, building afoundation that supports MHM
Publishing's successfulportfolio of award winning
magazines, which he began withhis wife, Linda, in 02/2002.
(08:14):
Mike's journey into aviationbegan when he was just six when
his dad took him to the London,Ontario International Air Show
for the first time in 1976. Bythe time he was 14, he developed
a keen interest in both aviationand photography, which started
to gain him recognition ininternational aviation trade
magazines before landing hisfirst job as the editor of Wings
Magazine in 1996.
(08:35):
Over the years, he has flown innearly 90 different aircraft
types and logged more than onethousand hours of air to air
photography in military andcivil aircraft. As the owner and
publisher of MHM Publishingbased in Kitchener, Ontario,
Mike oversees one of the world'slargest family owned aviation
publishing companies, whichproduces many notable multimedia
aviation brands, includingVertical, Vertical Valor, the
(08:57):
Vertical Helicast PodcastNetwork, Helitrader, Skyes, and
RCIF Today. Recently, MHMPublishing expanded into the
event space with the launch ofthe Vertical MRO Conference, the
first event in the worlddedicated exclusively to
rotorcraft maintenance, repair,and overhaul with upcoming
additions in Kelowna, BC andIrving, Texas. Mike's dedication
(09:17):
to aviation journalism andphotography has made him a
respected authority in thefield, contributing
significantly to thedissemination of aviation
knowledge and the celebration ofaerospace achievements. So,
Mike, we touched on this in yourbio, but what sparked your
passion for aviation?
mike (09:32):
Well, it actually goes back to, well, in 1976 was when
my, my dad took me to the theLondon Airshow. It's always a
joke that I have with my dad isthat he never taught me how to
skate, but he took me to anairshow. So I still don't know
how to skate, but, the airshow,it, it certainly spawned on a
(09:56):
passion for for aviation. Andit's something that really I
think, for some people when theywent to an air show, you know,
they went off, they joined theair force, such as in in your
case. Other peoples went intoother sectors of, of aviation.
But for me, my interest wasgoing into exactly where I am
today. So that was, you know,covering the aviation and
(10:19):
aerospace, sectors, initiallystarting with Canada and then
spreading globally.
bryan (10:25):
Yeah. That's interesting that it was the London Airshow
that sparked that for youbecause the London Airshow is
also the airshow I grew up goingto with my dad. And, it was
totally formative for me. Justit's it was such a great the
London International Airshow forso long was iconic. And then it
kinda went through a slump causethey had a couple bad years with
weather, and then it's I believehas come back and, is doing
(10:47):
quite well again.
So that's really cool.
mike (10:49):
Yeah. It is. It's amazing to see how that show has
progressed. But when you lookat, what air shows have done to
get people interested in the inthe industry, especially into
the into the military. So that'swhy I always figure it's it's
important for, for the air forceto have presence at these air
shows so they can demonstrate toCanadians, like, this is what
(11:10):
you can be part of.
So I think that's, that remainsprobably more important today
than ever.
bryan (11:16):
I think it's a huge recruiting tool. It's a tough
one. Right? Because, resourcesare finite. Yep.
And you have to prioritize thethe operations of the day and
training. But, man, those airshows are super useful, I think,
for recruiting.
mike (11:30):
Absolutely. Yeah. It's just it's, it's unfortunate you
wish you could see, moreparticipation, by the RCAF in
air shows that you would seesome of those communities that
say don't get the recognitionthat they would deserve at
airshows. So for example, youknow, tackle. When do you ever
see a Griffin and a Chinookdemonstration at an airshow?
(11:52):
We we constantly see the CFeighteen demo team or you see
the Snowbirds. But we don't seeare a lot of the lesser
communities, which are also ofgreat interest, for people to be
part of. So I'm hoping that westart to see that change as the
outreach continues for the RCAF.
bryan (12:09):
Yeah. That would be so cool to go to an air show and
see, like, a big formation ofChinooks and Griffins come in or
something like that as ademonstration of, like, how they
would move a large amount oftroops. Like, that would be so
cool.
mike (12:18):
Yeah. Absolutely. So we hope in the coming years that
we'll we'll see some, somechanges when it comes to that.
bryan (12:25):
Yeah. For sure. So how did that passion for aviation
end up being combined withphotography, and how did you
gain recognition in that field?
mike (12:33):
So because of the air show, there was a group of
people that would that wouldcome to the show from The United
States. They came from TheUnited Kingdom. And I just kinda
started to to watch them, andthey would hang out with them.
It was the guys like the the DonSperring. There was Dave Brown.
There's, they were both from TheUS. There was Robbie Shaw from
(12:54):
The UK. At that time, they werevery, very well known within
aviation circles, asphotographers. So I managed to
to kinda, you know, as a kid,get into those circles and and
then got to meet with them andkinda mentor. You know, they
were mentoring me and, you know,this is what you should do.
So I picked up a camera.Actually, I stole my brother's
(13:16):
camera, and took it to the, tookit to the London Air Show. And,
you know, that first, that firstyear, I think maybe one in 30
pictures that I took, turnedout, but it got me started. And
then, you know, year after year,you would you would start to,
you know, slowly get betterbecause, really, the only thing
(13:36):
I was, where I was going for theaviation, I wasn't going to the
airports to hang out at arunway. It was just the air
shows that I was doing at thetime.
So I'd ask a lot of questions.And that's why I always tell
people, I said, ask a lot ofquestions. How do you gain
access? How do you how do youget better at taking pictures?
And keep in mind, back in thosedays, it was all film.
So I didn't know the resultsuntil a week later did something
(13:59):
turn out versus watch someone atan airshow today and you'll you
know, an f 18 will fly by andand then look at all their
heads, look go down and look intheir camera to see, did I get
the shot? We had to wait a week.So one thing led to another, and
then I had my first photo was,was published in a US Navy
publication called Tailhook. Youknow, it was a it's a famous
(14:23):
magazine with the, with the USNavy. So that was where my first
image was was published.
And from that one image, then itjust it snowballed after that.
Because what I had is I was ableto demonstrate that I could get
published. And then what Istarted to do is that I would
take that and I would showsomeone, if it was public
(14:45):
affairs, that you would go tothem and say, hey. Look. I I got
published in this in thismagazine, whatever it was, x y
z.
And, and then it just started tosnowball, and you would start to
ask the questions. Well, how doI get to go flying? How can I go
up in a in a Canadian militaryaircraft? So and then as that
(15:06):
started to build, then I got myfoot in the door.
bryan (15:09):
Mhmm. It's funny you talk about the days of film versus
digital photography. I guess theother difference too is they can
just hold the button down,right, and take, like, a hundred
photos. And, you know, what wasa fill a roll of film? Twenty
twenty four?
Something like that?
mike (15:23):
It was '36.
bryan (15:24):
Thirty '6.
mike (15:26):
It it was '36 that you were that you would take. So,
yeah, you were spending a lot ofmoney on on film.
bryan (15:33):
Yeah. I remember seeing the, Lancaster come into London
One Year, and there was a guydoing aerial photography as many
are at air shows beside us. Andmy dad asked him because the guy
was just holding down the buttonand burning through a roll of
film every pass for theLancaster. And my dad said,
doesn't that get expensive? Andthe guy said, man, if I get one
good shot that
mike (15:52):
I can sell, it's all worth it. Oh, a %. And that's what
they look for is that one thatone shot. Mhmm. You know, we
always get, a lot ofcontributors that are sending in
photos, and they'll send me in.
It could be 30 photos that areall very similar to what they
look. And I'm like, just pickthe one that you like Yeah. And
(16:13):
then send that send that intous. But, yeah, it certainly
changed from from the earlydays, you know, when we, when we
started this.
bryan (16:22):
Yeah. For sure. So can you tell us about your first
experience doing air to airphotography?
mike (16:29):
Yeah. Sure. It, it's funny how it came to be is that,
again, at the air shows, I wouldask crews. And, it was back at
the London Air Show. A lot ofthis all happened at the London
Air Show, and there was a seaking there.
And I was talking to the crew,and I said, you know, how can
you get up in a in a helicopteror an aircraft to to do air to
(16:49):
air photography? And, and thepilot came back and he said, if
you get permission from publicaffairs and you're you're gonna
get published in a magazine,it's usually not too hard of a
process. So armed with that, nowfast forward, and, I'm actually
going to Dalhousie Universitynow in Halifax in, in '91. And
(17:10):
it was my first year, and therewas the Shearwater International
Air Show was, was going on. Italked to the crews there.
And I had a commitment fromEsprit de Corps magazine. Esprit
de Corps magazine was fairly newat the time. And the Sea King,
squadron, so four two three, hadjust returned from Op Friction.
(17:32):
So Gulf War one. Okay.
They had just returned, and theyhad converted I believe it was
eight Sea Kings had beenconverted more into a
surveillance type mission,almost like a utility helicopter
versus the mission of ASW thatthe Sea King is traditionally
known for, conducting thatmission. And, so I approached
them. I said, hey. Can we do astory about the conversion
(17:54):
process of the Sea Kings, whatthe mission of the Sea Kings
were when they were flying with,with the squadron, during the
operation? And I came back, andI got an approval to, to go fly
with him because I had amagazine that would that
committed to, publishing thestory.
So it was a gentleman by thename of lieutenant colonel Larry
McQua. And at that time, Larrywas now the wing opso at
(18:19):
Shearwater, but he waspreviously the CO four two three
squatter. So he basically tookme under his wing and said,
okay. Let's go. So we did abriefing.
This is what we're gonna do forfor the photos, came up with
what we were looking for, andoff we went. So it was, it was
amazing because it was the firsttime where, you know, how do you
(18:41):
talk to, to the crews to say,this is what I want. You know,
I'm a newbie at this and thisyou know, do I tell a pilot that
he's flying too far away, or canhe get closer, all these other
things? So that's basically whenit started was, not long after
the the Shearwater Air Show thathere I am, and I'm flying off
(19:02):
the coast of, Halifax along theshoreline, and I've got another
Sea King flying beside me. Andthat's where it all started.
So what was kind of interestingis that it started with a
helicopter. It went morphed intoother things beyond that, but
here we are today that neverthought it would turn into
vertical, now being the largesthelicopter magazine in the
(19:23):
world, but it all started with ahelicopter. I didn't think it
would go to what it did backthen. But it was four two three
squadron. That's where it allstarted.
bryan (19:33):
No kidding. Did did you pick a helicopter first just
because that's, I would assume,maybe an easier platform for air
to air photography?
mike (19:41):
Yeah. Definitely. I think that that played into it. But
one of the other things thatplayed into it as well is that
and this is what I learned as Istarted getting more and more
immersed into into doing thephotography, is that in in air
forces, who gets the least sortof recognition? It's usually
gonna be anyone from the rotarycommunities.
You know, the helicopter guysdon't get nearly the same sort
(20:02):
of attention as the fightercommunity, for example.
bryan (20:04):
For sure.
mike (20:05):
So what I wanted to do is I wanted to shed the spotlight
on the helicopter communitywithin the, within the air
force. They didn't get therecognition that they deserve.
So I started to tell thosestories. And then that's what
led to then pilots, people, theythey changed squadrons. So, you
know, they would say, hey.
You know, we're flying this. Doyou wanna come and, and fly with
(20:27):
us based on what you did with,you know, previous squadron? So
in Shearwater, then it led to,at that time, there was a
utility squadron there called vu thirty two. And then it was
that squadron, saw the photosthat I did for the Sea King
squadron, and that's where I gotmy first flight in a, in a t 33.
bryan (20:48):
Oh, cool.
mike (20:49):
So flying with VU thirty two. And then I did I flew many,
many times in in the T Bird. Itwas actually it's a it was an
excellent, aircraft to fly infor photography, especially if
you had a good pilot that knewhow to get that big tip tank out
of the photo. But I tell youwhat, that first flight I flew
(21:10):
with v v 32, I thought when Igot out of that aircraft, I am
not flying in a jet againbecause it was I was getting
sick, violently sick, becausewhat you learn is what you see
and what you do. So what you seethrough your lens and what
you're doing and what the planethat you're photographing is
doing is three different thingsthat are happening that you're
(21:31):
trying to process in your brain.
bryan (21:32):
Oh, yeah.
mike (21:33):
And that's what that that's what brings on the
nausea. And, you know, I wasinto it maybe about a half hour.
And then after that, I just I itit it went downhill quickly from
from there. But I learned to getpast it. Over the years, I
learned how to get past, the theair sickness.
And and, actually, I learned itby mistake. And the big thing
(21:55):
was, I was going up in a, in anf 18, and they said your
flight's gonna be later in theday. So I was like, oh, I can go
have lunch. I'm gonna be fine.
bryan (22:05):
Because I
mike (22:05):
would always go up and think, don't eat. You know? It's
just gonna come up. I went andate lunch, and then they said,
oh, you're going now. And I justhad this anxiety, and this fear
came over me as like, oh, no.
This is gonna be horrible. And Inever got sick.
bryan (22:19):
Yeah.
mike (22:19):
And then from there on, I knew, have a nice meal before
you go fly, and you won't getsick. And that's how I learned
to to combat the airsicknessproblem.
bryan (22:28):
I never would have even thought about that. But once you
explain it, like, the the threesensations, the what you're
seeing, what the other plane isdoing, what your plane is doing,
that would absolutely combine tomake most people sick.
mike (22:41):
Oh, it's yeah. It it's horrible. And especially when
you're when you're lookingthrough that lens, you just
you're not associating whatdirections things are going. You
could be inverted. You've beengoing straight up, but you're
just focused in on that on thataircraft that you're taking
photos of.
So, yeah, it's it's, severaldifferent senses that are that
(23:03):
are happening at the same time.
bryan (23:05):
For sure. So you started getting your foot in the door
with these various squadrons.How did you end up landing that
job editing for Wings Magazinein 1996? Because I'd imagine
that was a pretty big deal foryou.
mike (23:16):
That was huge, especially for, for someone like myself
where I didn't when I went touniversity, I I took political
science. I I wasn't takinganything in in the world of
journalism. But actually, whatgot me to that point, I have to
to give credit to, to some folksin the, in the public affairs
within the RCAF. John Blakely,he was public affairs for
(23:40):
Maritime Air Group. At thattime, Maritime Air Group
existed, which included anythinghad to do with Aurora or, or
seeking.
And the and, four three foursquadron became part of that
view thirty two. And And theykinda took me under their under
their wings. So they reallyhelped me, build, I guess, the
awareness in the RCAF. Theyhelped me with the the stories.
(24:03):
They helped give me that access.
So with that in hand, as I builtthat up, I was getting more
stories out there. So in '90,'94 is when I first started
writing for Wings as afreelancer. So I started with,
with them. They used to do anannual, air force special, and I
was part of that. And one of thefirst stories that, that we that
(24:27):
we wrote about, had to do with abig, counter drug operation that
had gone on.
It was the the name of theoperation escapes me now, but it
was a massive undertaking by, bythe RCAF. Actually, it was one
wing that really, wasinstrumental in this, and it was
a, a cargo aircraft. And Iforget what the tonnage of of
(24:51):
marijuana was that they, thatthey intercepted, but this was
the first story that I that Idid for wings. So I started
doing, all the militarycoverage, for Wings. And this
was actually thanks to LarryMilbury, who is very well known
in RCAF circles as well as awell known author and military
historian.
bryan (25:10):
Mhmm.
mike (25:11):
So he kind of paved the way for me. So I started writing
for for Wings. And then I had, Ihad moved out to Vancouver. I
chased Linda at that time. Weweren't married.
I chased her out to toVancouver, and you couldn't
really make a goal out of it.And then we decided we're gonna
move back to Ontario, but Ididn't have a job to come back
to. So I stopped in Calgary,which is where Wings was based
(25:33):
out of, and I pitched them theidea. I said, listen. Why don't
why don't you let me come on,full time that I can start
covering not just the military,but I can start doing covering
other facets of Canadianaviation.
At that time, they had Wingsmagazine and they had
Helicopters magazine. So Ipitched them the idea. I had
(25:55):
made, I guess, a good impressionon them with everything they had
done. They're pretty impressedwith all the access I was
getting, within the air forceand elsewhere now in Canadian
aviation. So they said, yeah,let's do it.
So then I, I took on that, fulltime position with Wings.
bryan (26:15):
Were you nervous at all walking in there to kind of sell
yourself to the magazine?
mike (26:19):
Oh, yeah. Because they never at that time, if I recall,
they didn't have anyone that wasa full time writer. Everyone was
always a, a freelance writer atthe time. But one of the things
that I learned, was that if youdon't ask, how are you going to
know? And that's how Iapproached everything that I did
(26:40):
with, well, with everything I'vedone.
But with the Air Force, I justkept on asking those questions.
Hey, You know, I I flew in this.Can I fly in that? To do a
story. But what was washappening is that they saw that
by asking those questions or bygranting me that access, this
this wasn't because so Mike cango for a joyride in the back of
(27:01):
an f 18 or an f five or whateverit was.
They saw the results of what wasbeing produced. So it was, it
was being published in themagazine. It was building
awareness, about the Air Force.So that's why I continued to get
that sort of access. I rememberthis was back at the London Air
(27:21):
Show, and there's gonna be a lotof stories that always go back
to the London Air Show.
One of the things that Iremembered at the time is that a
lot of those photographers thatthat I had met from The US and
The UK, One of the things Inoted is that none of them did
this as a full time career. Somewere, you know, police officer.
One was an air trafficcontroller. Like, they all had
(27:43):
their own jobs that they did.But I was like, there's gotta be
a way you can do this full time.
I mean, I really I love doingit. I said, there's gotta be a
way I can do this full time. Sothat's where I started to
separate myself, and it goesback to I asked those questions
that no one else would ask. Howdo I get the access to things?
So one of the things I learnedis keep keep your mouth shut and
don't tell people what you'redoing.
(28:05):
So here I am at the London AirShow, but before the show, I
knew that four three sevensquadron was showing up with the
tanker. At that time, it was theCC one thirty seven. They were
coming with the tanker, and theywere gonna do a demo with an f
18 and an f five off each wing.So I reached out to the
squadron. I said, hey.
You guys are gonna be at theLondon Air Show. What are the
odds that I could get on theaircraft to do some photos? So,
(28:27):
again, I had some photos underthat were published under my
belt, and I shared that withthem. And here I am at the
London Airshow, and I don't saya word. And, so the crew comes
out from doing their, theirbriefing, and I believe that the
pilot at the time was majorSteve Jenkins.
I think that's who it was. And,I talked to him before. No one
knew I was talking to him. Andthey come out, and I'm standing
(28:47):
in with a group ofphotographers. And, and Steve
looks at me.
He goes, alright, Mike. Let'sgo. And and I just walk out from
the crowd, and I'm walking outto this tanker. And all the
looks on all the other faces andthere's probably 12 of them
standing there like, where thehell is Reno going? And out to
the tanker, I walk, and I getin, and no one knew that I was
(29:08):
doing it.
So that was what I learned as Iasked the asked the the right
question to the right person. Alot of it has to do with timing.
And then it was being able toillustrate that, hey. Like, I'm
producing content about whateverit is I was doing. Mhmm.
So I wasn't a fan favorite whenI got off that tanker after that
(29:28):
flight. So but, but that's howthat's how I learned. Just ask
the questions.
bryan (29:35):
I used to fly with a guy who would say that the most
important three letters in thealphabet are a s k. Yeah. Don't
ask, don't get.
mike (29:43):
Exactly. And that's and that's a %. You just ask the
questions. And and how do you goabout doing that? And it opens
so many doors.
And I have to say too is that itwas all about timing. Like, now
to do what I did then, I thinkit would be a lot more difficult
to try that, say, today. Mhmm.It's it's the the, it's just
(30:04):
more difficult because you can'tfly, Civilians can't fly in a
lot of the aircraft anymore.Like Mhmm.
You can't fly in a c f acivilian can't fly in the CF 18
anymore. It needs US statedepartment approval for a
civilian to fly in the Hornet,for example. But it's just the
barriers to entry there. There'sa lot more than what there used
to be.
bryan (30:24):
For sure. And everything now is kind of, I think it's
more, there's more bureaucracyaround taking a passenger in
general. Like there's layerlayers of approval that have to
happen and it's it's a lot morethe the days of, hey. Can can I
come with you guys today? Andthen just walking on board are
are long gone.
mike (30:43):
Absolutely. And the thing is now is that, you know,
there's there's so manydifferent ways of disseminating
information. You know, at thattime, it was a magazine. That's
all basically, that's all therewas is that you were
disseminating the informationthrough through a magazine or or
other printed media sources.Look at the many ways that you
can disseminate informationtoday from what we're doing
(31:04):
right now in a podcast to socialmedia channels or whatever.
But, you know, the Air Force islooking to say, okay, well,
where are we gonna do you havejust a a Facebook page or an
Instagram page that, hey, we'regonna provide you with this
access? Or is there more thatyou're reaching a greater
audience and not just aviationenthusiasts?
bryan (31:24):
Mhmm. So we've talked about it a little bit already,
but can you tell us about thefirst time you flew in a
military jet?
mike (31:31):
Yeah. So it was, like I said earlier, it was with v
thirty two at Shearwater. And,it's funny. The the the pilot I
flew with was, Chris Conway.And, Chris is out of the air
force now, but I still bump intohim on a on a regular basis.
And it doesn't matter who I'mtalking to, but the first thing
(31:53):
out of Chris's mouth when hesees me, he looks at whoever I'm
standing with, and he says, oh,I'm the guy that popped Mike's
cherry in the back of a T Bird.It's like it's just it it it
always happens. But, you know,it was amazing because you had
to go through, several differentprocesses to be able to get into
the back seat of a of a t 33. SoI had to take the high altitude
(32:15):
indoctrination course. At thattime, it was in, it was in
Greenwood, so I had to gothrough that.
And then, of course, when you goto the squadron, then you have
to to learn how to, you know,you're learning the safety
system. So All the LC stuff.Seats. You know, all the LC
stuff. So you're learning allthis.
But keep in mind, at that time,I'm this 22 year old kid that's
(32:36):
going, okay. I gotta learn howto eject out of this aircraft,
and all everything else thatgoes along with it. So once I
got past that, and it's thelevel of anxiety, you know, when
you're going up in your firstfast jet, But the squadron was
awesome. You know, the the theyreally, bring you into the fold,
(32:58):
and they're just like, okay,let's just go with it. But then,
like I said, the, the airsickness comes on, and then it's
not as fun as as it was when youtook off, but but it was still
an amazing experience.
And that's that's how itstarted. And it really started
with those first people thatwere willing to entrust me to do
(33:19):
the things that I started to doby flying in their aircraft.
Mhmm. And and it was really athat was the turning point where
it was like, okay, these guystrust me to to get in the
aircraft. And then it was alsoit wasn't like an aviation geek
is coming into the back of theaircraft, and that's all I can I
can talk about?
No. It was I came and I treatedit professionally of that. Hey.
(33:44):
Yeah. This is fun.
I'm flying in the back of of anaircraft, but this is also the
tool that I need to do the jobthat I have to do. And that's
how I approached it.
bryan (33:54):
So you experienced a significant milestone with one
of my favorite jets, which isthe CF five Freedom Fighter. How
did you end up being the lastcivilian to fly in one?
mike (34:04):
Well, so I'm gonna hit rewind for just a sec to say how
I got into the CF five, thefirst flight. Four nineteen
squadron was was flying them atthe time. And, again, it goes
back to because one of the guyswas on the t bird squadron. He
was now at four nineteensquadron, and then I got the
access. So the first flight Iwent on, in the CF five, it was
(34:28):
for the four students.
So we took up six CF fives. Soit was, four a models and two, d
models. So two, two seataircraft. I'm in I'm in the back
of one. And this was their firsttraining exercise to do air to
air refueling.
So it was the CC one thirtyseven, and we launched out of
Cold Lake. And here I am flyingwith five other f fives with a
(34:53):
tanker, and these guys are alllearning how to plug for the
first time into the into thebasket. So it was a pretty
incredible experience, to watchthese guys. Now in the in the
two c f five, you couldn't doair to air refueling, so I'm
just watching the the singleseaters do it. So so it was
pretty amazing.
And then I did, I believe I didabout three or four flights in
the in the f five. But how Ibecame to be the last civilian
(35:16):
to fly in the c f five, it wasjust coincidence. I, 80, was
doing some they were doingtesting, and it was a new
targeting pod. It was actuallythe first targeting pod for the
f 18 at the time. Okay.
The name of the targeting podsuddenly escapes me, but it was
(35:36):
the early you know, it's wherehow it's it's not the sniper
pod, but it was
bryan (35:40):
Yeah. The one before.
mike (35:42):
Yeah. And I can't remember what it was called. But, anyway,
they wanted to do photos of thef 18 that AT was doing trials on
that had that pod on it. And wecouldn't fly in another f 18 for
whatever reason, so they said,hey. We're gonna put you in an f
five.
I was like, perfect. Not aproblem. The problem is is that
(36:04):
the performance between an ffive and an f 18 are much, much
different, which, which Ilearned as we're trying to do
these, you know, straight upclimbs, trying to get the f 18
to roll. And then, basically,we're doing a tail slide in an f
five, which,
bryan (36:17):
oh,
mike (36:18):
I've never done a tail slide in a fighter jet before.
So that was quite a exhilaratingexperience. So it was only soon
after that, I believe it waswithin six months that the f
five was, was retired.
bryan (36:32):
Okay.
mike (36:34):
So and that's why I ended up being the last civilian to to
fly in it. But I can tell youthat when we were done that
photo shoot, I got toexperience, the true performance
of an f five flying over theCold Lake Air Weapons Range. You
know, flying at low level, inthe f five, I mean, that's the
environment that it'd like tolive. Mhmm. But this was I
(36:55):
believe it was later in thewinter, so it was really bumpy
ride.
You had those thermals comingoff the trees because the sun's
out, but you had the snow. Andit was bumpy, and we were we
were right down on the deck. Butit was pretty amazing flight,
for my last flight in the ffive.
bryan (37:10):
So Yeah. That would be so cool.
mike (37:12):
Oh, it was it was amazing. Yeah.
bryan (37:14):
Yeah. I think you're very fortunate to have been in that
aircraft. I would have loved tofly in one of those, so that's
awesome.
mike (37:20):
Yeah. That was one of my that was one of my favorite, you
know, at that time to be able tofly in that aircraft.
bryan (37:25):
I mean, it's just such a it's such a great looking
fighter.
mike (37:29):
Yeah. It's it's a sexy fighter. Right? Yeah. That's
what it what it did.
It was, it was small small butmighty Yeah. With what it, what
its capabilities were.
bryan (37:37):
Yeah. For sure. Your experience with fighters
continued, and you were able toaccumulate the most backseat
time in a CF 18 of any civilianphotographer. What is the
coolest experience you had in anf 18?
mike (37:50):
I had several several cool experiences in the, in the f
eighteen. What what kinda got mymy foot in the door with the
with the f eighteen community,again, everyone's seeing the the
photography they have done. Itstarted with the demo jets. So
Jim Beliveau, everyone knows hewas the one that was, was
(38:12):
painting all the the jets. Thatwould be the the demonstration
team for the year, and that'swhere it started.
So I started photographing thedemo jets. I think I
photographed 12 or 14 demo jetsover the years. All by, I think,
two were were painted by, by Jimand his team. So I did a lot of
(38:36):
interesting flights in theHornet. A lot of times what
would happen is that because Ihad built up time in the Hornet,
the pilots would put me onmissions that they wouldn't
typically put a civilian on,especially if if a photographer
because these missions, it goesback to that air sickness.
Like, they would ask me, okay.Can you handle, basic fighter
(38:57):
maneuvers? Can you handle ifwe're going in and we're doing
ground attack? Can you handlethat stuff? Mhmm.
I mean, I would say yes. But atthe same time, it was like, oh,
no. I hope hope I can hold itall in
bryan (39:07):
Yeah.
mike (39:08):
Because it's some pretty aggressive flying that that's
going on. And I and I canhonestly say that at some point,
it's not fun. Yeah. It's not funwhen you're when you're doing
some of this and when you're apassenger. If if you're the one
in control, hey.
It's it's a lot of fun. But whenyou're in the back holding on,
it's it's not a lot of fun.
bryan (39:23):
It's work.
mike (39:24):
It it's it is work, and it's trying to know and try to
see how things are happeningahead before they before they
happen. So, you know, some ofthe fun things that I did is
that I would go up and I woulddo BFM. That was a lot of fun.
One of the ones where we wentout into a a live weapons range,
I went out with, AT. This isanother time I flew with with
(39:46):
AT.
And we went out. They had justpainted their CF 18 in AT
colors. And they, they wanted meto get pictures of that with
their tutor that was alsopainted in new AT colors. But I
convinced them to put some somerockets and bombs on the jets.
So I was in another f 18, andthey put CRV seven rockets on on
(40:08):
our jet.
And we had, I think it was Mark80 twos, but they were just dumb
bombs, concrete bombs. And, sowe went out, and I'm I was
photographing them, firingrockets on the range, and then I
had the opportunity to fire therockets on ours as well.
bryan (40:24):
Oh, wow.
mike (40:24):
So that yeah. So that was something that was pretty
different. It wasn't long afterthat that the CRV seven rocket
was that was phased out. So thatwas a lot of fun to be able to
do those types of missions, andI did quite a few of those. You
know, there's a couple timeswhere you would come back from a
mission, and they would theywould put me up on a mission,
and they would hot fuel, andthey would just tell me, stay in
(40:45):
the back of the jet.
You'll go up on the nextmission. So I did that a couple
of times. But I would say,actually, my my most memorable
flight, I wasn't in the Hornet.I was beside the Hornet, and I
was in a hawk. But what I wasphotographing, it was five f
eighteens, at a cold lake.
And this was actually, it was02/2018. So what made this a
(41:08):
memorable flight is theconnection with the Reno name.
So it was 02/2018, '4 zero '1squadron was celebrating its
hundredth anniversary. It wasalso the same year that NORAD
was celebrating its sixtiethanniversary. So it's not widely
known that the Reno name, has,some history in the RCAF.
(41:33):
So I had a distant relative. Hisname was Edwin Reno, and Edwin
flew with number one RCAFsquadron during the during the
Battle of Britain. Number oneRCAF squadron became four zero
one squadron when Canadaaccepted all the 400 series
squadrons, during World War two.
bryan (41:52):
Okay.
mike (41:52):
So he flew a he flew a, a hurricane during the Battle of
Britain. And then after theBattle of Britain, Edwin was
transferred, back to Canada. Heserved a number of training
squadrons, before he was madewing commander in Greenwood in
1944. I believe, it still holdstoday. He was wing commander at
27 years old.
(42:13):
He was the youngest wingcommander ever in the RCAF.
bryan (42:15):
That's crazy.
mike (42:16):
K. So that so that was in 1944. But then he rose through
the ranks over the years. He waspromoted to he went on to be
promoted to air vice marshal,and then he made chief of air
staff for fourth Allied TacticalAir Force in NATO. So he made
his way up to that position.
Then he was promoted to airmarshal in July of sixty six, I
(42:39):
believe. And then he was hisfinal promotion was to an air
marshal, but he also served asthe deputy commander of NORAD
between 1969 and 1972.
bryan (42:51):
Oh, wow.
mike (42:51):
So so here I am flying in the skies over Cold Lake, and
I've got, four jets from fourzero one squadron, and all of
them are armed. So we had twojets were launched from the,
from the queue, from the quickreaction alert facility in Cold
Lake. They came up with a with atypical NORAD, loadout. I had
(43:12):
two more f eighteens that werelaunched from 401 that they were
armed in a similar air to airmission loadout. And then I had
the sixtieth anniversary CFeighteen that was painted for
NORAD.
And there we are flying with,with the NORAD jets and four
zero one squadron. So we do themission, which we're we were up
(43:32):
for, it was 2.2. And, flying inthe Hawk, that's an incredibly
long, period of time to be ableto fly, but we are literally
throttled back. People thinkwhen you're doing these air to
air photos that you're flyingat, you know, 400 knots and it's
not. You're you're throttledback.
A lot of times, you might noteven be 300 knots when you're
doing these photos. But whatmade it special is we came back
(43:57):
and, I'm talking with the CO,lieutenant colonel, Forrest
Rock. I mean, there's a fighterpilot's name if you ever heard
of it, but Forrest Rock was the,he was the, commanding officer
at the time. And we're talkingabout, you know, the history of
of Edwin. And honest to God,we're in the mess.
And I look over at the wall andthere's a picture of Edwin on
(44:20):
the wall looking back And I go,that that's Edwin right there.
So, you know, we do thismission, and we come back, and
you're in the mess, and there'sa picture of Edwin on the wall.
So that was, that was a coolmoment for me. And for the
squadron, they didn't realizethe connection. So that was,
that was probably the mostmemorable air to air shoot I
(44:40):
ever did.
It almost didn't come to be. Ioriginally went out there, and
it was I had the idea, hey. It'sNORAD's anniversary. Let's put
up some armed jets so we canillustrate to Canadians that,
you know, CF eighteens aren'tpainted in these pretty colors
all the time. They're they'repainted gray.
(45:00):
They carry weapons. And, so Ipitched the idea to, to command
to say, hey, let's put up acouple of armed f eighteens to
show what NORAD's about. So itwas approved. But when I, the
day before we were doing the thephoto shoot, the, the wing or
the squadron opso called. He wasa US Marine Corps exchange
(45:25):
pilot, and he said, listen,Mike.
He said, I'm sorry. You've gotthe demo jet to shoot. He goes,
but you just lost all the otherf eighteens due to operational
commitments Uh-huh. Which was ithappens. It's it's happened to
me many times.
I'm sure it happened to you manytimes when you're flying the
Aurora. And, and then I get acall from, from the commanding
officer's squadron Forest Rock,and he said, Mike, leave it with
(45:46):
me. We're gonna we're gonnafigure this out. I walked into
the briefing the next day, and Iwas just expecting, you know,
the one f 18 pilot. Well, therewas five.
And he said, well, Mike, hesaid, I didn't get you, you
know, another f 18. I got youfour more. So and because what
they did is they said, hey,let's make this work. Every day,
you would launch the QJets as aas part of a training training
(46:08):
mission. So he so they justworked it out that we're gonna
launch the QJets during yourflight your planned flight with
the demo jet, and we've got twoother jets that have to go up on
a training mission anyway.
So we took basically, we tookall these training missions, and
we brought them together to dothis, to do this photo flight.
bryan (46:26):
Wow. What a story.
mike (46:28):
Yeah. It was pretty incredible. But it also again,
it goes back to these guyswanted to make sure that they
were getting, you know, gettingin the magazines. And we did a
big story on on both, on NORAD'ssixtieth and on the, on the
squadron's, hundredthanniversary.
bryan (46:43):
Yeah. It was kind of a everybody wins situation.
mike (46:46):
Oh, a %. And and I'll tell you, like, these these were some
of the well, the picture thatyou're looking at right now,
that was from that photo shootwith four zero one. But there's
a an example where it was it wasone of the I would say it was
not challenging, but it was oneof the most well organized photo
(47:06):
shoots we'd ever done because wehad a lot of jets moving in a
lot of different directions. Andto try and organize that when
you're doing everyone's seenthose typical photos where the
jets are doing splits and you'vegot one jet pulling up into a
vertical. You got one jet that'scoming at you.
That's a lot to do, and you'veonly got maybe three seconds to
(47:27):
get that photo. Wait. Becausewhen that split starts, within
three seconds, everyone's out offrame. Mhmm. Then you're you go
wings level, and then you comeback in, and then you you
continue with your next photo.
So so that was a pretty special,pretty special photo shoot for
me.
bryan (47:40):
Yeah. That's, that's interesting. And for the
listeners, what we'll have to dois get Mike when we publish this
episode and we promote it onsocial media, we'll have to get
Mike to send us some of thesephotos so you guys can see them
because it's, he's got it up inthe background and it's, it's
very cool. So how many squadronsand fleets from the RCAF have
you flown with?
mike (48:00):
So I have flown with every single squadron in the RCAF
minus four eighteen squadron,and that's only because they
were recently stood up in, inComox. And I have not flown in
the Cyclone, and I have notflown in the, Husky nor the
Kingfisher.
bryan (48:19):
Okay.
mike (48:20):
So those three aircraft are the only ones that
bryan (48:22):
So the the new ones, basically, like, the very new
ones.
mike (48:25):
Yeah. Basically, the new ones because, I'm just simply
not doing as much flying as Iused to.
intro (48:32):
Right.
mike (48:33):
So you kinda think of that career progression in the air
force is that you started to sayas a lieutenant, you're a
captain, and you're flying lots.But as you continue to move up
the ranks, the amount of flyingthat you do starts to decrease.
bryan (48:46):
For sure.
mike (48:47):
And then before you know it, you're flying a desk. And
that's essentially what'shappened to me is that as as MHM
Publishing has grown into whatit is, you know, we have 24 full
time employees with all thebrands that we have. It's harder
for me to get out as much as Iused to.
bryan (49:03):
Yeah. That makes
mike (49:05):
sense. And I do miss it. I I I miss it. I miss getting out
there. But having said that,we've got some incredible people
that are kind of filling thatthat void.
Mhmm. You know, when we startedthis call, I was telling you
that, we have Derek Hayes up at,up in the up in the Arctic. So
he's up there, and that'ssomething that I would have done
(49:27):
in the past. So, I'm sureeventually I might get into one
or two of those aircraft, butI'll leave it to those guys to
do that now.
bryan (49:37):
So of all the aircraft you've flown in, what was your
favorite? Probably a toughquestion.
mike (49:44):
It's a tough question, but I I tell you what, and people
might be surprised when I saythis. I'm gonna say the c 17.
bryan (49:51):
Oh, yeah?
mike (49:52):
Yeah. I'm gonna say the c 17 because it is one of those
things because I've had the thefortunate opportunity to
experience flying in all theaircraft. So I've flown in the
fighters. I've I've flown withthe snowbirds. I mean, you know,
they've all been incredibleexperiences that I've had.
But the c 17 is a surprisebecause it's an amazing
(50:12):
aircraft. And when you seeyou're sitting in the jump seat,
on a c 17 and they're flyingthat like an f 18, it's
incredible. So the best flight Ihad, it was the, the commanding
officer of four two ninesquadron at the time. He was
doing his annual proficiencycheck. So it was a low level
route that we were doing, and itwas incredible.
(50:35):
Like, the whole flight were werelow level. I don't think we were
above 500 feet the whole timeflying North of Trenton, flying
over Algonquin. And, and we had75 paratroopers in the back Oh,
wow. Of the aircraft as well,which I'm starting to feel a
little nausea coming on. And I'mstanding, you know, behind the
jump seat with all these nicewindows to look at, and you've
(50:58):
got all these paratroopers inthe back that they were they
were getting ill because we flewbefore we we dropped them out of
the aircraft.
I believe we were flying forabout an hour and a half.
bryan (51:08):
Low level?
mike (51:09):
Low level the whole time.
bryan (51:11):
That's rough. That's rough.
mike (51:12):
It was it was really rough. So it was part of the
part of the mission. They'rekicking out the the paratroopers
over Mountain View, but thenthey also go in to land at
Mountain View. And I can'tremember the the the length of
the runway that's in MountainView, but it's essentially just
long enough for the c 17. Yeah.
So to bring that aircraft in,they're landing it like you're
(51:35):
landing on a carrier. And thenthe funny part of that mission
was that, at the end of therunway, it's not big enough for
a c 17 to turn around. So it'skinda like doing the the the 20
turn to turn the c 17 around sowe could take off. But when
you're sitting in that jump seatand they go full power and, and
you're going down the runway andthen they they pull up, it's
(51:58):
it's incredible. You can't pullyourself out of the seat.
So it's really it's a it's anincredible aircraft, especially
when you look at the size ofthat Mhmm. That you're flying.
So that was actually, I wouldsay, the my favorite aircraft to
fly in. And part of that too isbecause you're not you're not
with all these straps like youare in a in a fighter. Right?
(52:20):
So it's a little bit moremobility.
intro (52:22):
Yep.
mike (52:23):
But, yeah, that was pretty, that was a pretty
awesome flight.
bryan (52:26):
Yeah. The c 17 is such a cool aircraft. If you've ever
seen you were talking about theshort field capabilities. If
anyone of the listeners has beenlucky enough to see it at an
airshow where they demo thatstuff, especially in a case like
yours where it's empty, theshort field landing and the
short field takeoff capabilitiesare insane. Like, you would
never believe that an aircraftof that size could do that in
(52:47):
such a short distance.
mike (52:49):
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that's what's it's incredible
about that. And I and I thinkthat, they haven't done too many
demos with the aircraft.
If anything, you always see theUS Air Force come up to the air
shows, and you see them do theirdemo routines. But you have a
team dedicated specifically todoing, you know, air show
routines with that. Yep. But,yeah, it's truly, truly amazing
(53:10):
aircraft. It's too bad we don'thave more of them.
bryan (53:12):
Yeah. I think the, the crews would agree with that.
They're they're always indemand.
mike (53:17):
Oh, yeah. I I believe that they are probably one of the
most tasked aircraft in the, inthe RCF fleet.
bryan (53:24):
Yeah. Without a doubt. Okay, Mike. That's gonna wrap up
part one of our chat. Thanks somuch for your time today, and
thanks for, being on the show.
And I'm looking forward to thenext one.
mike (53:33):
Great. Looking forward to it, Brian.
bryan (53:36):
Alright. That wraps up our merger announcement as well
as the first part of our chatwith Mike Reno. Listeners can
check out our next episode wherewe will finish talking to Mike
all about his career flying airto air photography with the
RCAF, including his manyadventures and stories, as well
as how they got into thepublishing game. Do you have any
questions or comments aboutanything you've heard in this
(53:56):
episode? Would you or someoneyou know make a great guest, or
do you have an idea for a show?
You can reach out to us at thepilotprojectpodcast@gmail.com or
on all social media at atpodpilotproject. Listeners
should also check out our socialmedia channels to see our many
awesome videos featuring RCAFaircraft. As always, we'd like
to thank you for listening tothe show and ask for your help
(54:18):
with the big three. That's likeand follow us on social media,
share with your friends, andfollow us and rate us five stars
wherever you get your podcasts.That's all for now.
Thanks for listening. Keep theblue side up. See you.
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