September 14, 2025 • 45 mins
(01:03) Lisa Ray of Hammajack Heat Company joins us to share the delightful origin story behind their uniquely named hot sauce brand – a four-year-old's adorable mispronunciation that became the perfect business name.
(16:12) Lisa walks us through the fascinating fermentation process that gives their sauces distinctive depth and complexity. Though she admits she wasn't initially a hot sauce enthusiast herself, Lisa now crafts some of their most popular flavors, including their best-selling Ginger sauce featuring coconut milk and ginger root. We explore their product line from the original OG sauce to accidental creations like their tomato-free barbecue sauce that became a hit with customers who have nightshade sensitivities.
(22:20) The big news? Pittsburgh's very first Hot Sauce Festival is happening October 4th 2025 at Velum Fermentation on the South Side. Rather than viewing other sauce makers as competition, Lisa has invited 17 competitors to join the celebration, creating a collaborative event featuring food vendors, a hot pepper eating contest, and even a "fire and ice challenge" benefiting Animal Friends for Veterans.
(40:46) We also hear from Ashley Cesaratto about her favorite mobile pizza experience at Vitalia Wood Fired Oven, and Vonn and Quay of Burghade Lemonade share their mouthwatering Jamaican jerk mushroom pasta recipe.
Whether you're a heat seeker or just curious about Pittsburgh's evolving food scene, this episode delivers a flavorful journey through one of the city's hottest culinary success stories.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Doug (00:01):
Welcome to the Pittsburgh Dish.
I'm your host, Doug Heilman.
How much do you like hot sauce?
This week we talk with Lisa Rayof Hamajack Heat Company to
learn about her business andPittsburgh's first upcoming hot
sauce festival.
Are you always on the lookoutfor the next great slice of
(00:21):
pizza?
Ashley Cesaratto shares thepraises Vitalia wood-fired oven.
And do you have that recipe ortwo that's in constant rotation
at home?
Vonn and Quay of BurghadeLemonade share one of their
go-tos Jamaican jerk mushroompasta.
All that ahead.
(00:42):
Pasta All that ahead.
Stay tuned.
The Pittsburgh Dish issupported by Chef Alekka LLC.
Visit her website atchefalekkacom to learn about
menus, services and cookingclasses.
That's chefalekkacom.
Now on to the show.
Thank you so much for comingover and for being on the show.
(01:05):
Would you introduce yourself toour listeners and what you have
going on right now in the worldof food?
Lisa (01:12):
Well, my name is Lisa Ray and I currently own Hammajack
Heat Company.
It's a hot sauce company, whichis very exciting.
I never thought I'd be makinghot sauce or selling hot sauce,
but not only am I making andselling hot sauce.
I am be making hot sauce orselling hot sauce, but not only
am I making and selling hotsauce.
I am putting on Pittsburgh'sfirst ever hot sauce festival,
which I would never have guessedI would be doing, and it is the
(01:35):
most fulfilling professionalthing I've had going on in my
whole life, I think.
Well, congratulations on all ofit.
Doug (01:41):
Thank you.
I have so many questions.
First off, why don't we justget to the heart of the name?
I love that name.
Where did that name come from,hammerjack?
Lisa (01:50):
I love the story and lots of people ask that it was my
husband and I.
Frank and I had a bathroomremodeling business for about 14
years, just closed it up a yearago and one of our customers,
their little four-year-old Max,would call Frank's jackhammer a
hammerjack.
Yeah.
Doug (02:09):
Little kids always say the cutest thing so perfect.
Lisa (02:12):
And that family actually became good friends of ours, and
they are hot sauce lovers too.
I was not, by the way.
This was a thing that Frank andBob, the husband, had in common
, so when Frank brought hissauce over to their house, max
pointed and called it ham-a-jacksauce.
Oh my goodness, and it was justsomething Frank was making for
(02:32):
fun.
Yes, and we give it to friendsand family.
He just loved hot sauce and itwas a passion of his.
So fast forward a few yearswhen we decided sure, we can
make this into a business and Istarted looking for a quote in
quote real name.
There was no better name.
Vonn (02:49):
It feels really good.
Lisa (02:50):
Yeah, it's unique, I mean we have hammajackcom because
it's not a real word.
And I remember our designer,our artist, who redid our, our
logo and our labels and they'rebeautiful.
Um, at the time he wasstruggling with the name a
little bit and he said, well,but what is a hammerjack?
And then actually I remember itwas Irwin at Fulton said to me,
(03:12):
well, what was a Pringle?
Until everyone knew what it was.
And I said you're right.
And now I mean hammajack ishammajack, it's our sauce and I
love it.
Doug (03:24):
I am noticing you're wearing a hammajack t-shirt
today.
And I sort of see a jackhammerin there in some way, but I
hadn't picked that up until wetalked about it, so that's
perfect.
Lisa (03:35):
And lots of people mispronounce it as hammerjack.
Doug (03:39):
Yeah, I think I want to do that.
Lisa (03:40):
Yeah, yeah, until you get used to it, and then it's just
it rolls off the tongue ashammajack it does.
So it's a lot of fun.
Doug (03:46):
So Frank was sort of the start.
Your husband, frank, was sortof the start.
Lisa (03:49):
He was absolutely the start?
Doug (03:50):
Yes, and how long has hammajack as a sauce that people
can buy?
How?
Lisa (04:00):
long has that been going now?
Well, I like to say legally.
Well, I like to say legally,when we got our health
department permit from thecounty.
That will be three years thisOctober.
Oh, congratulations.
Doug (04:11):
You're coming up on an anniversary, then.
Lisa (04:13):
We are, we are and of course we were making it before
that and giving it away.
Yeah, it was so much fun.
But the funny thing is most ofour sauces and at the time all
of our sauces were made withpeppers from local farms.
Doug (04:25):
Okay.
Lisa (04:26):
Okay, and we found Fulton Commons around this time three
years ago, actually All rightand by the time we got through
all the paperwork and thecertifications, it was October
before we got our permit, butpepper season's about over then.
Doug (04:41):
Oh yes.
Lisa (04:41):
And so, okay, now we have this kitchen for a year, what
are we going to do to make sauce?
So I've found this a number oftimes through the business and
through life.
You know, challenges breedinvention, right.
However, we did not sell awhole lot that first year
because we weren't even making alot of sauce.
So I feel like this past yearwas our first serious year of
(05:08):
selling.
Doug (05:09):
Yeah, like exponential.
Yes, we're in a groove.
Lisa (05:12):
We're in over 26 stores and I do lots of markets, and
and now, of course, we have toguess how many peppers should we
get this fall to put intofermentation?
What do we expect next year?
Next year so, um, and we havebranched out and we do buy some
peppers non-local that aresustainable year-round but you
have to at this point because ofyour production.
Yes, yes, every time we've had achallenge like that, it's bred
(05:36):
something better, like at thetime when we couldn't get many
local peppers.
One of the peppers we use isjalapeno peppers.
It's a basic, basic pepper.
You can get that year round.
I go to Whole Foods if I needto and get some.
So I said to Frank hey, theonly peppers we can get are
jalapenos, and we can get a tonof them.
So you have to make a saucewith just jalapeno, and that's
(05:56):
how Sublime was born.
Doug (05:57):
And it's a popular sauce now.
Oh, so good yeah, and good yeah, and just to catch our
listeners up.
So you mentioned you werecommitting for a year.
You are in Fulton Commons.
A couple of our other guestsoperate out of there.
They have this beautifulcommercial kitchen in the lower
level.
And you also mentioned Irwin.
Irwin Mendelssohn is one of theowners of Fulton Commons, so
(06:17):
he's giving you a little nudgeand direction.
Lisa (06:20):
Yes, what's a Pringle?
I love that.
Yes, he loves following ourstory and he loves the energy.
I come in with always someother silly story.
Oh, so perfect.
Doug (06:28):
Well, you know it's also.
We talked about this with MikeHarding and a couple of other
folks.
Yes, even just being there andseeing everyone else do their
thing and their story is alsomotivating too, and to learn
from other people like what areyou doing?
Lisa (06:50):
How are you navigating?
That we love it.
I mean because you're workingwith other entrepreneurs who are
passionate about what they'redoing.
They're friendly, you knowthey'll give you free food
samples and they'll give youadvice on your sauce, and
there's a lot of collaborationand it's very inspiring and we
love that energy.
It's been very helpful to usactually.
Doug (07:05):
That's how we first connected.
I was there for some otherlunch.
Lisa (07:08):
Thing right, yes, yes, I think Barb was doing a sampling
of her food.
That's right, AB Kitchen, ABKitchen, yes yes, and what's
great too is it's helped us withdinners.
You know we'll buy from thepeople down there.
Doug (07:21):
Oh yeah, so you can actually feed yourself.
Lisa (07:24):
Yes, yes, yes.
Doug (07:26):
Oh, that's so good.
Well, Lisa, I want to justpivot a little bit.
One of the things we haven'ttalked about yet are the
different hot sauce flavors.
You hinted at the Sublime.
Can we just do a rapid fire ofsome of them?
We don't have to do all of them.
Lisa (07:41):
Sure sure I'd be happy to.
Well, we don't have to do allof them.
Sure sure I'd be happy to Well,OG was the original sauce that
Frank made over years.
Doug (07:47):
Okay, the one you would give away to people.
Lisa (07:49):
Yes, he just had the one sauce, and but he would tweak it
each year, each harvest.
He would go to local farmer'smarkets and find cayenne peppers
, which led us to the specificcayenne pepper.
That's a whole other story.
That just took his sauce toanother level.
We just took his sauce toanother level.
We felt like it was the perfectpepper.
And then one year he was just afriend, gave him some random
peppers and he tried somethingwith that and and developed I
(08:12):
forget what we called it oh,jalapeno.
So at the time we had thiscayenne sauce, we were calling
it and we had a jalapeno sauce.
And then we ended up with atrifecta that had three peppers,
and these were the earlyrenditions of our sauces.
Doug (08:25):
Well, and can I ask about a couple of the ones that
intrigue me, ginger?
Lisa (08:29):
Oh, I love talking about ginger because, okay, like I
said, I'm, I was not a hot sauceperson, I was.
I had the business background,I was a CPA, and I was the one
that said, sure, we can start abusiness, just go into all kinds
of debt and you know, that'show you will be fine, but you
have a good viewpoint of it.
Doug (08:45):
You have a good sort of background.
Lisa (08:47):
Yes, I manage small businesses and things, so I knew
that we could do it.
Vonn (08:51):
Whereas.
Lisa (08:52):
Frank was convinced that it's not something we could do.
When we started selling hotsauce, I thought, well, I better
start eating this so I can talk, because, honestly, before we
sold it, I'm sure that I tastedhis Frank sauce.
I can't imagine I wouldn't have, but I didn't use it on any
regular basis.
It just wasn't my thing.
I don't know.
Doug (09:09):
Well, that was a question I had for later.
It's like was hot sauce a bigthing for you?
Lisa (09:13):
No it was for Frank and I love spice and flavors and
variety of food.
It just wasn't something that Ireached for, yeah.
And so when we started sellingit and I was at markets you know
different farmers markets andthings I thought, well, I better
, I need to taste this so I cantalk about it.
So a couple of years ago, wehad some leftover fermented
(09:34):
cayenne pepper because we doferment all the peppers that we
use and I thought I was feelinginspired.
I feel like trying a recipe.
I have no culinary backgroundNeither does Frank, by the way.
We have no history in this,it's just pure passion and fun.
But I was just I'd beenlistening to some podcasts and
food podcasts.
(09:55):
I said to Frank I'm feelinglike podcasts.
I said to Frank I'm feelinglike coconut milk and ginger
root for this sauce.
Doug (10:07):
And he looked at me kind of funny and said for a hot
sauce, Because it's not common.
No, that's why it kind ofsparked my interest.
Lisa (10:10):
Yes, and fast forward.
It's our most popular sauce.
It's the highest selling and itwas my first rendition of it.
Ashley (10:18):
We didn't tweak Now granted over years.
Lisa (10:21):
Frank tweaked.
He got the ratios of everythinglike how much?
Pepper how much vinegar, howmuch salt, things like that.
But I took his recipe andapplied some different
ingredients and just made aone-off batch.
I thought, yeah, and peopleloved it.
But we were all out of cayenne.
That was the last of thecayenne for the year.
So that's when we took a chanceand bought some fermented
(10:42):
cayenne pepper and I tried torecreate the ginger and I
couldn't it just wasn't the same, but it also was.
It was still good, okay.
So we tweaked that into what isnow called our bison.
That's our version of a buffalosauce.
Oh yes.
And then our artist said let'smake this a little bit different
.
Called bison it's not exactlybuffalo sauce, not exactly
buffalo, but it's close has alot of the same ingredients,
(11:03):
almost all the same ingredientsas the ginger, except for the
base.
Pepper is a different type ofcayenne, yes, so again a mistake
, that that's not that's notyeah.
Doug (11:21):
Well, I love it and I also really appreciate the names as
well as the flavor combination.
Can I ask you about one more?
Lisa (11:24):
Yes, or maybe two.
I love talking about them.
Doug (11:26):
I will admit you brought me some today and I'm excited.
But I am a little bit of a heatwimp, so anything that has a
little sweet to it.
Lisa (11:34):
So you have a sweet heat one, right, and you'll like the
ginger, because I'm a heat wimptoo.
I'm getting better.
Doug (11:39):
Yeah, me too.
Jalapeno I can handle when weget higher.
And if you're throwing Reaperinto some things, then I don't
know.
I don't know, I'll taste it forfun.
Lisa (11:47):
We have Reaper in our flair, which is based off of our
OG, but again, it's with thosecayennes that we purchase, so
it's a little saltier, a littlebit more vinegary tasting, for
some reason.
And then we added a littleReaper because we were getting
requests for something a littlehotter.
Our sauce, if you ask Americansor Pittsburghers, our sauce is
(12:07):
probably spicy, but it's not,really not in terms of hot sauce
when we look across the boardat what like hot ones is doing
and stuff like that there'sprobably some that are quite.
Doug (12:16):
They're just going for that ridiculous hot
Right Some of them are, but someof them.
Lisa (12:20):
The thing is, people have different heat tolerances and
when you get up into the higherheat I'm now experiencing this
for the first time we have thatsweet heat and it has a habanero
pepper in it.
Frank doesn't like habaneros.
We never made anything withhabanero, but we kept getting
requests, so you've got tolisten to your customers, right?
(12:44):
I made a version of the sweetheat with habanero and I wanted
it to be hot, like our flairsauce, like at least as hot as
that, and it's not.
But people love it so much thatI don't want to change it.
But I've made a couple ofversions.
Or I've made a version where Idouble the habanero because I'm
experimenting with maybeoffering a hotter one.
Yeah, and I tasted it and Isaid to Frank it was so
intriguing.
I said, yeah, it's hotter butit tastes better.
(13:06):
And he said, well, that'sbecause you're just tasting more
of the pepper.
So if you have a higher heattolerance, it just allows you to
taste a different flavor thatotherwise it just feels like
pain, so you don't even taste it.
So that's what I'm learningYou're getting into those layers
or notes of flavor, you'reexpanding your own palate.
Yes, that's so great.
Yes, it's a lot of fun.
Doug (13:27):
So much fun.
Before we move away from thesauces, did I also see a
barbecue sauce on theresomewhere.
Lisa (13:32):
Oh yes, barbecue sauce was another mistake.
I was trying to make a smokyhot sauce because we don't have
one, and I didn't want to useliquid smoke.
I try to be as what I wouldconsider authentic as possible,
and so I bought some maritasdried moritas from Reyna's.
Doug (13:54):
Down in the strip district .
I love getting dried peppersfrom Reyna's in the strip.
Yes, yes.
Lisa (13:58):
And I got these Moritas, which I now understand to be
dried and smoked red jalapenos.
Yes so red jalapenos are alittle bit sweeter and a little
bit hotter than red jalapenosare green jalapenos just left on
the vine longer.
Doug (14:12):
Yes, and then also, what I understand is a Chipotle is a
dried green jalapeno.
Lisa (14:18):
Yes so.
Doug (14:19):
Morita.
Am I saying that right?
Yep, morita is a dried redjalapeno that's also been smoked
, so it's got a great smokyflavor.
Lisa (14:26):
Oh, my goodness, the smell and the taste of it, that
smokiness is incredible yeah soI use those, I use some of our
fermented jalapeno and a numberof other ingredients.
I just kept adding things untilI got the flavor I wanted.
I have whole cherries in therewhich you can kind of taste if
you pay attention, and we havesome local raw honey.
Oh, and the other thing is well, it turned into what tastes
(14:50):
like a barbecue sauce instead ofa hot sauce.
So I just embraced that andthat's how we market it.
But one thing I wasn't thinkingof there are some people that
can't eat tomatoes, and so theygenerally can't eat barbecue
sauce.
Doug (15:02):
Yeah, there's usually the tomato paste base.
Lisa (15:04):
Yes, yes.
So I've had people that havethat situation.
They can't eat tomatoes, sothey can't eat barbecue sauce,
and they love our sauce and theysay finally, a barbecue sauce I
can eat because it's allpeppers.
Doug (15:15):
Yeah, and yours contains no tomato product, it's all
peppers.
Lisa (15:18):
Yeah, and yours contains no tomato product.
Correct, correct, and in factthe base of it, instead of
tomato, is fermented red bellpeppers.
Doug (15:28):
So yeah, because we can't have all just hot peppers,
they'll be too hot, they'llmellow it out a bit.
Yes, that's so interesting.
Lisa (15:31):
Yes, and it is so delicious, it's too hot.
I always say this my palate isgetting better with handling
heat, but it is too hot for me.
But I eat it anyway becauseit's so delicious and I'll just
have some.
I'll just have some Greekyogurt like a sour cream type
thing on the side yes To smooth
Doug (15:46):
it out.
Yes, to smooth it out.
Lisa (15:47):
And the ingredients we use .
It's expensive so I wasn'tgoing to make it, because I have
to charge like $12 a bottle.
But people buy it, yeah, so I'mmaking it, you meet where the
market is.
Doug (15:58):
Yes, yes, yes, how wonderful.
Lisa (16:01):
This is Lisa Ray with Hammajack Heat Company, and you
were listening to The PittsburghDish.
Doug (16:08):
You know you have mentioned this a couple of times
and I'm just curious becauseI've never done it.
I've never seen hot sauce made,but I do understand that there
is a fermentation process, atleast to some hot sauces, to
some.
Yes, are most of your hotsauces fermented?
Lisa (16:23):
All of our hot sauces include fermented peppers.
Doug (16:26):
Let me just ask you, because I'm intrigued by the
science of it, when you're doingthis, when we're going to
ferment a pepper, let's talkabout how and why.
So what does this look likewhen you're going to ferment
some peppers?
Are you putting them all in acontainer with salt or just
water and a lid Like?
How does that work?
Lisa (16:45):
Well, it has changed as we ramped up.
It was different when Frankwould make it at home.
Doug (16:50):
Yeah.
Lisa (16:50):
And only make 30 bottles of hot sauce at a time for a
season.
He would ferment the peppers inbrine.
Okay, so he would chop up thepeppers, put them in salt water
yes, and the key was then to puta weight on top of the peppers
to make sure none of the pepperwas exposed to air.
Doug (17:07):
You got to keep it under the water.
Yes, Under the water.
Lisa (17:09):
So there's no brine under the brine under the brine, so
there's no oxygen exposed.
So that's, that's what wouldcreate mold.
Doug (17:15):
Would you see little bubbles coming up then?
Lisa (17:18):
After just a day or a couple of days, you see little
bubbles coming up.
Yes, they'll be in glass jars,yeah.
Doug (17:22):
So if someone's intrigued and I've also seen like
fermenting, like ball jars thathave sort of a release lever and
stuff too If somebody wants todo this at home, you can't.
You're leaving it on thecounter at room temperature.
Lisa (17:35):
You're not putting it in the fridge or anything the
fridge or anything.
No, that would stop thefermentation or prevent it.
I mean I do it at home in justa regular 16 ounce Mason jar
with cabbage for sauerkraut, andI just have it sitting on my
counter for a couple of weeks.
Doug (17:47):
And let's talk about the why for the peppers.
What does that do versus usinga fresh pepper?
I mean, is it necessary becauseof mold or is it a flavor
enhancer?
Lisa (17:56):
Right, right.
Well, and first of all, when wedid the brine, when we came to
Fulton Commons, actually, one ofthe chefs that was working
there said why aren't you doingmash?
You can fit so much more thandoing a brine.
So what?
We do now is we chop thepeppers up and then mash them.
Doug (18:11):
Yes.
Lisa (18:12):
And we don't add any water , and we just add salt.
So this is like the liquid fromthe peppers now have been
really released and exposed.
Yes, interesting.
And then we mix salt in withthe peppers and then we put
what's called a salt cap on topof them.
Then we seal it with a littlerelease valve that allows gas to
escape, but nothing to come in,no new oxygen to come in so
(18:33):
that's what we do now is themash.
Doug (18:35):
That's the pro way.
Lisa (18:36):
Right, right, right, and it was very scary.
The first year we did itActually, that was last fall we
had over a thousand pounds ofmash.
Doug (18:47):
Yeah.
Lisa (18:47):
And we did not have experience.
Doug (18:49):
Yeah, You're like I hope this works.
Lisa (18:51):
Yes, and it did.
Doug (18:53):
Yeah, well, I'm asking about the mason jar way for our
listeners, because I don't thinkI'm going to do that either,
but I'm so glad it worked out.
You didn't have any bigexplosions or anything.
No, we had.
Lisa (19:06):
Actually one time James, who now owns Wise County I
remember him texting me orcalling me One of your buckets
has some pepper stuff coming outof the top because we had
filled it too close to the top.
Doug (19:17):
Oh yeah, a little out of the top because we had filled it
too close to the top.
Oh yeah, a little air.
Lisa (19:21):
Uh, what's that called headspace?
Doug (19:22):
yes you need to allow headspace because it is going to
bubble and it is going to, youknow, rise doing its thing yes,
so it snuck out and getting backto what's the why behind it
with the peppers, oh yes yes,frank just always fermented this
the peppers for the saucebecause that's what he had
wanted to do.
Lisa (19:40):
I wasn't sure why, but it does definitely give it a unique
flavor.
It's a richer, deeper flavorthan just a plain pepper, and
for our purposes, because welike to use the local peppers.
They're only in season for acouple of months, so once you
put them in fermentation theyare now good for months or years
(20:00):
oh yeah, because you'vepreserved them like you would a
sauerkraut or something yeah,that makes so much
it's amazing that you can takethis fresh produce and not even
have to refrigerate it.
Just mix some salt in, you know, to simplify it.
They can sit there for monthsor years years.
Doug (20:16):
I never thought about that .
Thank you so much for theeducation.
I'm asking truly because I wantto know.
Lisa (20:22):
Yeah, yeah, it is interesting and I guess I always
thought that maybe all hotsauces had fermented peppers,
but they don't.
There's a variety of them and Iwill have people asking
specifically.
They're looking for fermentedsauces because it does have a
different flavor.
Doug (20:37):
And I also think what I'm gathering from some food trends
in the world too is fermentationhelps with digestion, it
enhances flavors.
As you said, it's breaking downsome of the cells and the
different components of whateveryou're fermenting and it just
makes food taste better.
Lisa (20:54):
And it's good for your gut bacteria.
Now the issue is we then cookit?
Doug (20:59):
So you're pasteurized in a way.
Lisa (21:01):
It is pasteurized Now, before we cook it, we always
pour some in some bottles forourselves.
Right, because we want thatbeneficial bacteria and in the
future I do want to market that.
We call it raw, like our rawginger, our raw OG.
Doug (21:15):
Would that have to be like refrigerated then, after
bottling I?
Lisa (21:18):
still have to do more research, because when I
actually spoke with the healthdepartment, they told me it
would actually be shelf stablebecause our pH is so low.
Yeah, but once we open it,maybe we'd have to refrigerate
it.
I need to really dive deep.
Doug (21:33):
We'll be on the lookout for that.
Lisa (21:35):
But I've had.
All my friends have tried it.
They say it tastes even better.
I mean, I think it tastesbetter too, but, I we started
doing it because of thebeneficial the health benefits.
The health benefits yeah,everyone loves a health benefit
out of something fun like hotsauce, right, something that
tastes great, right, right?
Although I'm very careful, alot of my friends will say why
don't you promote more that youdon't have any bad items?
(21:55):
Quote, unquote bad items.
You know ingredients in yoursauces because they're all whole
foods.
We don't use any binders, anyfillers but, I want to be
careful to not make claims.
Doug (22:04):
Right.
Lisa (22:05):
So I don't.
I'm not big on saying allnatural or any of that.
I want to let it speak foritself.
The all of our labels have theingredients quite large because
we're proud of the ingredients,but I don't make that an
advertising point, okay, fair.
Doug (22:20):
All right, Lisa, I want to pivot a little bit.
You guys have been at it forthree years or so, right, and I
guess in that time youdiscovered that there has not
been a hot sauce festival before.
Lisa (22:33):
Right In Pittsburgh.
Right, how great I meanPittsburgh is a festival town.
That's right.
Yeah, Right, how great I meanPittsburgh is a festival town.
That's right.
I mean, last year we discoveredthere's a mac and cheese fest
and what goes better on mac andcheese than hot sauce?
That's right.
So we went there it was at oneday and we sold a ton of hot
sauce, but there's progi fest.
There's of course.
Picklesburg right and which isknown across the country.
(22:55):
And there's so many festivalstacos, et cetera, et cetera but
there's not a hot sauce festival.
Doug (23:02):
Where it's the star.
Lisa (23:03):
Right when it is.
Just, yeah, hot sauce is themain event and that's very
popular in other cities.
Yeah, so we went to our firstone.
My husband and I went to ourfirst one in Cincinnati just
about a year ago, last AugustJungle Jim's.
It's a very large grocery store.
Doug (23:21):
I have heard of Jungle Lims.
It's an experience?
Yes, it's a thing.
Lisa (23:25):
It's overwhelming.
I don't know how you could shopthere.
There's too much going on.
But we went there for theirweekend of fire, they called it.
It was two days with plenty ofhot sauce vendors.
We were one of about 50 hotsauce vendors.
So these are all of ourcompetitors in the same room.
It was our first timeexperiencing this and the thing
(23:45):
that really left an impressionon Frank and I was how helpful
and kind and supportive allthese other makers were here.
We are like new kids on theblock and they're giving us
advice.
I mean, obviously nobody sharestheir recipes.
We're not talking recipes, butwe met people who do
fermentation as well and wetalked about that.
(24:06):
We talked about co-packing,advertising.
They're just so helpful,they're really supportive and I
feel like Pittsburgh, I feellike the food world of
Pittsburgh or the foodbusinesses, is very similar to
that.
It's, I like to say it's verymuch the mentality of the rising
tide raises all ships.
Doug (24:28):
We hear that a lot on this show and I love it.
I see it too.
Lisa (24:31):
Yes, and not just food.
Small businesses that's right.
There's so many collaborationsI mean, look at how many
breweries there are inPittsburgh and they they're
co-supportive of each other.
Doug (24:40):
The pizza places, all the pizza people really support each
other, even though, to yourpoint, they're sort of
competitors, but not becausethey're all so different.
Lisa (24:47):
Right, and that's the thing, because they're all so
different.
If you like pizza, you want totry all the pizzas, that's right
.
If you like hot sauce, you wantto try all the hot sauces these
people have collections, likeI've seen basements with shelves
of hot sauces.
Doug (25:01):
So you're onto it.
Lisa (25:02):
And I've had stores tell me well, we'll only carry your
hot sauce, it being nice, and Isay that's great.
I appreciate that.
But I'm not offended if youcarry another hot sauce, because
I know the hot sauce market.
I know those consumers, theywant to try all the hot sauces.
So the idea of having a hotsauce festival.
(25:28):
I mean it's really cool to thinkI've invited 17 of my
competitors have agreed to cometo this event and it's a pretty
cool feeling and I think afterthey talk with me and understand
where I'm coming from, they'reexcited to participate.
Doug (25:38):
Can we just give a couple high-level details.
This hot sauce festival ishappening this coming October
4th.
Lisa (25:44):
Yes, it's a Saturday.
First Saturday in October.
Doug (25:47):
Okay, so it's happening October 4th 2025.
Yes, as you've said, you're upto 17-ish vendors.
Lisa (25:53):
Including us, it'll be 18 hot sauce vendors.
Doug (25:55):
Yeah, and there's going to be other folks there too.
Lisa (25:57):
Yes we'll have food vendors and things.
Doug (26:01):
Because you other folks there too, yes, we'll have food
vendors and things, because yougot to pair it yes, exactly.
Lisa (26:05):
Will you do a hot ones?
Yes, tasting of course, in coldfriends kitchen we'll be making
the wings.
Doug (26:08):
That's great oh, they're great.
I follow them on instagram aswell, so that's fun yes, they'll
be making the wings we have.
Lisa (26:15):
We have a hot pepper eating contest for crazy people,
and I'm talking carolina reapertype peppers, and these people
eat a lot of them.
Doug (26:22):
They have to have like medical staff handy, just in
case.
Lisa (26:26):
So the hot pepper eating contest and, for what I like to
say, the little bit less crazypeople, but still crazy.
And we have our fire and icechallenge where you eat a hot
pepper and it can be a jalapeno,it depends on your heat
tolerance, but you consider hotand then you get an ice bath
because Pittsburgh tub club willbe there.
So you do the fire and icechallenge.
It's free to attendees and foreach person who does it we're
(26:50):
going to donate $20 to animalfriends for veterans.
So we can guilt people into it.
Doug (26:54):
Come on, you got to do it for the dogs and the veterans.
Oh my gosh, that's perfect.
Lisa, I love that.
Lisa (26:59):
So much fun we're going to have a fire entertainer, a
person flying through the air acouple times.
Wow, it's just so much fun.
Where is the location?
It's at Velum Fermentation.
Doug (27:09):
Okay, it's in the south side right under the Iron City
Clock.
That's right, the new clockthat just lit up, yes, oh my
gosh.
Lisa (27:21):
And tickets are available for pre-sale right now on your
website.
Is that right?
They are very much availableand I really want people to
pre-buy, but I understand that'snot very common.
Most people wait to the lastminute.
Doug (27:29):
And so they are a little cheaper on your website right
now.
If they pre-buy, I thinkthey're $15 if you pre-purchase,
yes, and $20 at the door yes,all right, so save five bucks.
Lisa (27:39):
Yeah, save five bucks, and actually starting October 1st.
If you buy them online, it'salso $20.
Doug (27:43):
Okay, so they're going to go up.
Lisa (27:45):
Yes.
Doug (27:45):
So go get your ticket and go.
Lisa (27:47):
Yes, yes.
Doug (27:48):
All right.
So let's recap that for ourlisteners too.
Lisa (27:56):
So this is Saturday, October 4th.
Yes, and what time of day Forgeneral admission?
It starts at 1230 in theafternoon and it runs until 6 PM
.
For VIP ticket holders itstarts at 11.
Doug (28:03):
AM A little pre yes.
Schmooze and taste and dowhatever you want, right.
Lisa (28:09):
And they will have their own scavenger hunt arranged for
that time period where they willlook for things and they'll.
There will be prizes awardedand they will at least for the
first 100 VIP ticket buyersthey'll get their own tote bag
to carry all the hot sauces theypurchase.
Doug (28:25):
And you did mention food vendors hot sauce vendors, of
course.
They're all sort of selling andsampling their stuff.
Is this like a limited capacitything, like could you sell out?
People should probably know.
Lisa (28:35):
Yes, it definitely can sell out, and I expect it to.
We are capping it at 1,500people and that includes the
volunteers and people running it.
Doug (28:45):
Yeah, yeah.
Lisa (28:45):
Because Vellum is a large place for a brewery, but it
still can't hold an unlimitednumber of people.
Doug (28:50):
The whole city.
Yeah, right, right right, wecan't do a Picklesburg right in
there.
Right, right right, this mightreally have a thing.
So again a reason to get sometickets ahead of time before
they sell out.
Lisa (28:59):
And one thing I did want to mention is at Velum they also
have this very large game roomwith pinball machines and a pool
table, and that's going to beincluded as well.
Doug (29:09):
A lot of good things, and of course beer.
Of course.
Well, that goes with wings hotsauce yes, yes, yes, and
non-alcoholic.
Lisa (29:17):
we'll have ginger beer there.
Actually, Jackworth ginger beeris going to be there 111 Juice
we love that An ice cream place.
You know things to cool yourpalate.
Doug (29:24):
Yeah, yeah, and the NA movement is something that I
think is super important.
So there's always so I keepsaying there's always some
options and that's just such agood thing.
Lisa (29:38):
Yes, yes, not even for people, and you're being
responsible.
Doug (29:40):
Yeah, I love that Well well-planned, and we're wishing
you the best.
Lisa (29:44):
Thank you, thank you, I'm very, very excited.
Doug (29:47):
Lisa, I did want to pivot a little bit and just ask some
background.
You and Frank had this businessfor years.
Did you both grow up in thelocal?
Lisa (29:54):
area.
Yeah, we are passionate aboutPittsburgh.
We love it.
Doug (29:57):
Frank grew up the first part of his life in Crafton not
very far from where we are rightnow, not very far from where
we're recording.
Lisa (30:02):
Yeah, and then he moved to Baldwin and I similarly grew up
in Baldwin.
I moved a few places when I wasyounger, but we've been born
and raised in Pittsburgh Alwaysin the Pittsburgh area.
Yes, so we love it.
Doug (30:15):
For you before you met Frank.
What was food life like?
Did you ever think hot saucewould be in your future?
Lisa (30:19):
Never, I didn't even know it existed Really, I mean before
Frank.
I mean he and I have beentogether since I was 19 years
old, so yeah, it just wasn'teven on my radar whatsoever.
I knew from a young age youngbeing shortly after college that
(30:40):
I wanted to manage businesses,or have my own small business,
which we did with the bathroomremodeling business, because
Frank is incredible with allthings home related.
He can build a whole househimself.
So we took his skills and mybusiness background and made
that happen for 14 years.
We sustained ourselves on thatbusiness and made that happen
(31:00):
for 14 years.
We sustained ourselves on thatbusiness.
Prior to that, frank was aboilermaker for over 20 years.
Wow, and he was pretty high upin the boilermakers at the time.
But yes, that's a little bit ofbackground about us.
But, yeah, no culinaryexperience whatsoever Other than
we cook for ourselves at home.
Doug (31:16):
And we love food.
I was going to ask are youfoodies, or do you even like to
cook at home?
We do.
I love food.
I was going to ask are you afoodies or?
Lisa (31:20):
do you even like to cook at home?
We do, yeah, yeah.
And we like experimenting.
You know we make.
I make my own sauerkraut, frankwill make homemade pizzas.
We don't do it a whole lot, butwe do love, we do prepare our
own food at home and we enjoyexperimenting with it.
And our son does as well.
Doug (31:34):
Excellent, my, my insider question, then, is which hot
sauces are you grabbing or usingthe most at home, or do you
have a dish or two that you liketo?
Lisa (31:44):
It depends on the dish, I used to unequivocally say ginger
.
A lot of people, when they seeme at a market selling sauce, a
lot of people will ask what's myfavorite sauce and I tell them
it is the ginger.
If I had to pick just one, ithappens to be the best seller
too.
But anytime I'm making steak Ireach for the trifecta because I
didn't realize it's like thebest steak sauce.
(32:05):
Wow, it's a really good steaksauce and Frank uses flair a lot
, especially in a breakfastburrito or in a chicken noodle
soup.
Doug (32:15):
Interesting.
Lisa (32:16):
You know what else is really good.
You know what else is reallygood.
Any of our sauces or other hotsauces in a plain ramen noodle
bowl.
It just gives it some flavor adifferent flavor.
Doug (32:26):
It's a picker up or two, because there's a little like
vinegary-ness to it and thatheat.
Lisa (32:31):
Excellent, yeah, so it depends.
I mean our sublime I love onhard boiled eggs, oh my goodness
.
But the sweet heat, that's ourlatest flavor and that's
delicious on everything.
Actually, actually, I just hadthat on vanilla ice cream.
Wow, you have to try it,because up front, when you have
that sweet heat, you get thelocal maple syrup and whole
(32:54):
peaches.
You get that flavor.
So it is quite sweet up front,yes.
And then the habanero comes atthe end.
Some people call it a sneakysauce.
Doug (33:02):
Yes, the heat comes, sneaks up on you.
Lisa (33:03):
Yes, and instead of vinegar.
This is the only sauce we makethat doesn't have vinegar.
It has a local kombucha.
Doug (33:10):
Oh wow Vibrant sunshine.
Lisa (33:11):
Yes, so it's very smooth.
It doesn't have that vinegarsharpness.
Yeah, expecting it might beokay.
It was phenomenal.
Doug (33:19):
Did you mention you're going to have an ice cream or
milk or something at the hotsauce festival?
Lisa (33:26):
We are going to have an ice cream stand.
The Parkside Creamery will bethere.
I met them at an event earlierthis summer.
A nice little place.
The owners were very nice,their product was delicious, and
I really wanted to promotesmall businesses at this
festival.
Absolutely so, and I havetalked to them about having the
sweet heat.
Doug (33:46):
Yeah, I would say you have a moment to sprinkle that on
and try it out.
Lisa (33:49):
Yes, how perfect.
Yes, thanks for reminding meabout that.
There's so many things toremember for the festival, but
yes, Earlier, you asked me toremind you about milk.
Oh yes.
Well, if you've watched HotOnes, for example, lots of
people are familiar with that.
They have a glass of water andthey have a glass of milk.
A lot of people will use milkto calm down or cool down their
(34:10):
mouth.
Doug (34:10):
They think it's taking some of the capsaicin away.
Yes, yes.
Lisa (34:14):
Yeah, I honestly don't know.
I do know that when I did asampling last week of our
version of hot ones, our lineupmilk seemed to help me.
Granted, I'm only having alittle drop of the hot sauce.
Doug (34:27):
Right, you're touching the tongue and like, okay, that's
enough.
Lisa (34:29):
Yes, but my understanding is beer or not just beer,
alcohol actually helps evaporatethe capsaicin off your tongue?
I'm not sure.
Yeah, but I do know thatchocolate does the opposite.
So if you are offered achocolate hot sauce, I'm not
saying don't have it, because itcan be delicious, but it will
stick to your tongue, it's goingto linger.
(34:50):
Yes, wow, it's going to linger,but it's interesting but I
really I don't have that part ofthe festival covered in terms
of a milk source well, maybesomeone will hear this and be
like hey, right exactly.
Doug (35:04):
Well, I'm so excited and so let's just kind of move on
and talk about that a little bitmore.
We've said that that's the bigevent happening October 4th for
the business.
Are there any other goals orevents happening in the coming
year?
Anything, anything else newcoming up?
Lisa (35:20):
You know it's funny.
We're just kind of rolling withour gut and where this takes us
I did not expect.
For example, just last month,Giant Eagle Market District two
of the Market District storesstarted carrying our sauce
Thanks to three rivers grown.
That's our distributor.
We sell to most of the most ofthe stores that we sell to.
(35:40):
I sell directly to and I likethat relationship and
distributor.
We sell to most of the most ofthe stores that we sell to.
I sell directly to and I likethat relationship and I deliver
it to them and and that's veryhelpful like wise county
biscuits or mort's.
Yes, uh-huh coffee, yes, yes andalso especially people can
order directly on your websiteyes, yes, which is always great
when we get to online orders,but three rivers grown also
distributes our product toplaces like Wholeys and a number
(36:04):
of other places, and GiantEagle was one of their largest
clients and I really honestlyeven told them that's not.
I'm not, that's not a goal ofours to get into Giant Eagle,
because number one, that's a lotof stores.
Doug (36:17):
That is a lot of stores.
Lisa (36:19):
For us to really ramp up.
And then I had a fear of themwanting a discount because our
sauce is not inexpensive.
Doug (36:26):
Right.
Lisa (36:26):
You know, to sit on the shelf next to these less
expensive sauces may not go overwell.
However, the Giant Eagle MarketDistrict is a little bit
elevated.
Yeah more curated.
Doug (36:37):
And they have a focus on local.
Lisa (36:39):
Yes, yes, they do.
So two of the stores startedcarrying our product two months
ago.
And then, the next thing I knowwell, Three Rivers Grown said
to me I can probably get youinto some more of those market
district stores and I saidplease don't, because I don't
want to run out of product.
I have this fear of growing toofast and we've been growing
organically.
(36:59):
I think that's uh, that's valid.
Doug (37:01):
You know you want to maintain a good product, you
want to have fun with it.
Lisa (37:05):
Yeah, there's a certain degree of pressure and we want
the quality to maintain bemaintained right however, a few
weeks later I got an orderthrough an email for our largest
order ever for all six marketdistricts, because they wanted
to have us on special for thewhole month of August.
So, they have us on sale onspecial displays.
It is just unbelievable.
(37:27):
It really.
If we were to have created agoal for ourselves, I wouldn't
even be thinking market districtwould be attainable at this
stage in our business.
Oh great.
And, and even better, theydidn't ask for a discount.
Doug (37:40):
Yeah, yay, well, that's a good news story all around.
Lisa (37:45):
Yes.
Doug (37:45):
Wishing you all the best in that.
Lisa (37:47):
So we're just rolling with it, and we could have never
predicted that or forecasted orplanned for it.
So I don't want to limit myselfby coming up with some grand
plan.
I'm not good at that.
Anyway, you're still rollingwith it.
Doug (37:59):
I'm good at rolling with it, it's working.
Lisa (38:00):
Yes.
Doug (38:02):
Well, if people want to actually buy direct from you or
even just follow you, why don'twe remind folks of your?
Lisa (38:13):
website and any social media that you like to do.
Where can people find andfollow you?
Yes, well, they can go to ourwebsite at hamajackcom that's
H-A-M-M-A-J-A-C-Kcom, and theycan order there.
We ship across the country andwe are most active on Instagram.
Our handle is at HammajackSauce and we are also on
Facebook.
(38:34):
My sister recently created aTikTok account for us, but I'm
not good at maintaining those.
Fortunately, anything I post toInstagram does mostly go to
Facebook.
Doug (38:44):
I do the same, yes.
Lisa (38:46):
And it also posts to our website.
Doug (38:48):
Oh, that's good yeah.
Lisa (38:49):
Yeah, yes so, but Instagram is the most popular.
Doug (38:52):
Yeah, where you're most active.
Yes, it's where I'm most active, so people need to look you up,
give you a follow.
Lisa (38:57):
Yes, we need some more followers.
We have 730, some followers,and I thought, oh, it'd be great
to get to a thousand.
Doug (39:03):
I think we'll do that.
Yeah, yeah, all right, lisa.
The name of the show is ThePittsburgh Dish.
I always have a final questionfor our guests.
Oh, that's right.
What was the best dish you hadto eat this past week?
Lisa (39:18):
Wow, there are so many amazing places to eat in
Pittsburgh and unfortunately, Idon't get out to many of them
often.
However, there's a place nearFulton Commons that I happened
to pop into a couple of days ago.
Actually, it was Wise CountyCafe.
I'm there often because Ideliver sauce there, et cetera,
(39:41):
and I had it seems like such asimple dish.
I had their chicken saladsandwich.
They make the most simplethings so delicious and complex
in flavor.
You know it was a chicken saladsandwich, but it had a pickle
flavor in it, a very lemonflavor.
(40:02):
It was delicious.
It was actually the first timein a while that I ate too much.
I felt too full.
I've been doing pretty goodwith not overeating lately, but
it was just too good.
I should have stopped at thefirst half, but it was delicious
, it was the best bite?
Doug (40:17):
Yes, and this is at Wise County Cafe.
Wise County Biscuits on thenorth side.
Lisa (40:21):
Yes, yes, yeah, and I had a little side salad and it was
very fulfilling.
Doug (40:27):
Lisa Rae, it has been such a pleasure to talk with you and
learn about hot sauce.
Thank you so much for takingsome time and thanks for being
on The Pittsburgh Dish.
Lisa (40:35):
Well, thank you so much for having me.
I love talking about hot sauce.
Doug (40:40):
This is great.
You're in the right field Upnext if you're constantly on the
hunt for the next great sliceof pizza, ashley Cesarotto
shares one of her favorites.
Hey everyone, we're joinedtoday with Ashley Cesaratto of
Eating with Ashley on Instagram.
Ashley, I always like to askwhere you're going out and about
(41:02):
for some new bites.
I was wondering this week ifyou've tried any new pizza
places.
Ashley (41:08):
Well, a pizza place that I keep going back to again and
again is Vitalia Wood Fired Oven, and they're actually a food
truck.
Yeah, they go to a lot ofdifferent places.
Their home base is kind of inthe Cranberry area.
Ok but they'll go to festivalsand different events.
They do it with cannoli and itlooks super fun.
(41:30):
So if any of your listeners arelooking for something different
for a party like that's, thatwould be a great choice.
Doug (41:50):
Now, where were they camped out when you had them
last?
Ashley (41:53):
They were in Cranberry.
So there was I think there weretwo weekends where we went
twice in a row.
Well, because they had somespecials that were just insanely
delicious.
Doug (42:03):
And I'm not going to reveal where Ashley lives, but
I'm going to say this is alittle bit of a drive.
You went there on purposebecause it's so good.
Ashley (42:10):
Yeah, I mean it's mostly highway, you know.
Doug (42:12):
Yeah, it was worth it.
Ashley (42:13):
It was absolutely worth it.
Doug (42:15):
So mainly you've driven to Cranberry to have Vitalia.
Have you located them anywhereelse?
Ashley (42:21):
They actually catered my brother and sister in law's
wedding.
Oh yeah, so they'll.
They'll do different events.
Sometimes they're maybe outsideof a hospital, or they'll do
festivals and things in thesummertime.
Oh, that's so cool.
Doug (42:36):
So I guess it would be best to maybe check out their
website or their social handlesto see where they'll be.
And so we're talking aboutVitalia wood fired oven.
It's a food truck and you needto check them out.
They're worth the stop.
Ashley (42:49):
Absolutely, and they keep their socials very updated.
They always pin their scheduleevery week.
Doug (42:55):
So they're super easy to find.
So smart Ashley.
Thanks so much.
Ashley (42:59):
Sure, thank you.
Doug (43:05):
You can follow Ashley on Instagram at eatingwithashleypgh
.
What recipe is in constantrotation at your house?
Vaughn Jennings and Shaquayla,dukes of Brigade Lemonade share
one of their favorite dishes.
Vaughn, when we were here last,we talked all about your and
Quay's business making all ofthese great flavors of lemonade,
but I noticed that you guyswere talking about loving to
(43:27):
cook as well at home.
Is there a recipe that you makethat is sort of on the rotation
all the time, or just somethingthat's super special?
Vonn (43:37):
Oh, let's see, there is a jamaican mushroom jerk pasta
that I make.
Oh, chef's kiss, oh yeah, um,and you have to get the mafalda
noodles, oh yes you have to.
You have to get those mushrooms.
Of course, I make everythingfrom scratch sauce peppers, uh,
uh, get your Scotch bonnetpeppers, oh, a little spice
there oh, she's a spice girl.
Doug (43:59):
Oh, everything has to be spicy make it hot, but you like
this Quay, you like this.
I love it.
Vonn (44:03):
I love it I just I'm not as much of a spicy girl, so I'll
be having to say not and not asheavy.
I look, tone it down just a tad, but with the pasta it's
perfect actually yeah, it's Ilove it that, just the way that
she makes it.
Doug (44:20):
Describe it a little bit more to me.
Is it like saucy?
Yes, do you like, use a Cajun?
Vonn (44:23):
seasoning.
Yes, so it is saucy, I makeit's like an Alfredo sauce.
Yeah, I make it from scratch.
Oh, so it's a plant-based heavywhipping cream, of course some
seasonings mixed in, and it hasto simmer because it actually
darkens.
Oh man listen, I'm going tomake you some.
Doug (44:42):
It sounds delicious, and I mean great for plant-based, but
I imagine you could add someshrimp in there or something if
you wanted to.
Yeah, because I told you I'mnot giving up my seafood.
I know you said this to mebefore, all right, so what do
you call it again?
Vonn (44:54):
The Jamaican jerk pasta mushroom pasta.
Doug (44:56):
Jamaican jerk mushroom pasta.
I'm going to get that recipefrom you.
Yes, Vonn Quay, thank you bothfor being on The Pittsburgh Dish
.
Vonn (45:04):
Thank you for having us.
Thank you and thank you forPittsburgh Dish.
My guy, Douglas, he has thingsto say and it's amazing.
Thank you again.
Doug (45:10):
Douglas.
Thank you both.
Do you have a recipe?
Share it with us?
Just visit our website atwwwpittsburghdishcom and look
for our share a recipe form.
If you enjoyed the show,consider buying us a coffee for
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(45:30):
You can find links to thoseoptions at the bottom of our
show description, and if youwant to follow my own food
adventures, you can find me onsocial media at Doug Cooking.
That's our show for this week.
Thanks again to all of ourguests and contributors and to
Kevin Solecki of Carnegieaccordion company for providing
the music to our show.
We'll be back again next weekwith another fresh episode.
(45:51):
Stay tuned.
Welcome to the Pittsburgh Dish.
I'm your host, Doug Heilman.
How much do you like hot sauce?
This week we talk with Lisa Rayof Hamajack Heat Company to
learn about her business andPittsburgh's first upcoming hot
sauce festival.
Are you always on the lookoutfor the next great slice of
(00:21):
pizza?
Ashley Cesaratto shares thepraises Vitalia wood-fired oven.
And do you have that recipe ortwo that's in constant rotation
at home?
Vonn and Quay of BurghadeLemonade share one of their
go-tos Jamaican jerk mushroompasta.
All that ahead.
(00:42):
Pasta All that ahead.
Stay tuned.
The Pittsburgh Dish issupported by Chef Alekka LLC.
Visit her website atchefalekkacom to learn about
menus, services and cookingclasses.
That's chefalekkacom.
Now on to the show.
Thank you so much for comingover and for being on the show.
(01:05):
Would you introduce yourself toour listeners and what you have
going on right now in the worldof food?
Lisa (01:12):
Well, my name is Lisa Ray and I currently own Hammajack
Heat Company.
It's a hot sauce company, whichis very exciting.
I never thought I'd be makinghot sauce or selling hot sauce,
but not only am I making andselling hot sauce.
I am be making hot sauce orselling hot sauce, but not only
am I making and selling hotsauce.
I am putting on Pittsburgh'sfirst ever hot sauce festival,
which I would never have guessedI would be doing, and it is the
(01:35):
most fulfilling professionalthing I've had going on in my
whole life, I think.
Well, congratulations on all ofit.
Doug (01:41):
Thank you.
I have so many questions.
First off, why don't we justget to the heart of the name?
I love that name.
Where did that name come from,hammerjack?
Lisa (01:50):
I love the story and lots of people ask that it was my
husband and I.
Frank and I had a bathroomremodeling business for about 14
years, just closed it up a yearago and one of our customers,
their little four-year-old Max,would call Frank's jackhammer a
hammerjack.
Yeah.
Doug (02:09):
Little kids always say the cutest thing so perfect.
Lisa (02:12):
And that family actually became good friends of ours, and
they are hot sauce lovers too.
I was not, by the way.
This was a thing that Frank andBob, the husband, had in common
, so when Frank brought hissauce over to their house, max
pointed and called it ham-a-jacksauce.
Oh my goodness, and it was justsomething Frank was making for
(02:32):
fun.
Yes, and we give it to friendsand family.
He just loved hot sauce and itwas a passion of his.
So fast forward a few yearswhen we decided sure, we can
make this into a business and Istarted looking for a quote in
quote real name.
There was no better name.
Vonn (02:49):
It feels really good.
Lisa (02:50):
Yeah, it's unique, I mean we have hammajackcom because
it's not a real word.
And I remember our designer,our artist, who redid our, our
logo and our labels and they'rebeautiful.
Um, at the time he wasstruggling with the name a
little bit and he said, well,but what is a hammerjack?
And then actually I remember itwas Irwin at Fulton said to me,
(03:12):
well, what was a Pringle?
Until everyone knew what it was.
And I said you're right.
And now I mean hammajack ishammajack, it's our sauce and I
love it.
Doug (03:24):
I am noticing you're wearing a hammajack t-shirt
today.
And I sort of see a jackhammerin there in some way, but I
hadn't picked that up until wetalked about it, so that's
perfect.
Lisa (03:35):
And lots of people mispronounce it as hammerjack.
Doug (03:39):
Yeah, I think I want to do that.
Lisa (03:40):
Yeah, yeah, until you get used to it, and then it's just
it rolls off the tongue ashammajack it does.
So it's a lot of fun.
Doug (03:46):
So Frank was sort of the start.
Your husband, frank, was sortof the start.
Lisa (03:49):
He was absolutely the start?
Doug (03:50):
Yes, and how long has hammajack as a sauce that people
can buy?
How?
Lisa (04:00):
long has that been going now?
Well, I like to say legally.
Well, I like to say legally,when we got our health
department permit from thecounty.
That will be three years thisOctober.
Oh, congratulations.
Doug (04:11):
You're coming up on an anniversary, then.
Lisa (04:13):
We are, we are and of course we were making it before
that and giving it away.
Yeah, it was so much fun.
But the funny thing is most ofour sauces and at the time all
of our sauces were made withpeppers from local farms.
Doug (04:25):
Okay.
Lisa (04:26):
Okay, and we found Fulton Commons around this time three
years ago, actually All rightand by the time we got through
all the paperwork and thecertifications, it was October
before we got our permit, butpepper season's about over then.
Doug (04:41):
Oh yes.
Lisa (04:41):
And so, okay, now we have this kitchen for a year, what
are we going to do to make sauce?
So I've found this a number oftimes through the business and
through life.
You know, challenges breedinvention, right.
However, we did not sell awhole lot that first year
because we weren't even making alot of sauce.
So I feel like this past yearwas our first serious year of
(05:08):
selling.
Doug (05:09):
Yeah, like exponential.
Yes, we're in a groove.
Lisa (05:12):
We're in over 26 stores and I do lots of markets, and
and now, of course, we have toguess how many peppers should we
get this fall to put intofermentation?
What do we expect next year?
Next year so, um, and we havebranched out and we do buy some
peppers non-local that aresustainable year-round but you
have to at this point because ofyour production.
Yes, yes, every time we've had achallenge like that, it's bred
(05:36):
something better, like at thetime when we couldn't get many
local peppers.
One of the peppers we use isjalapeno peppers.
It's a basic, basic pepper.
You can get that year round.
I go to Whole Foods if I needto and get some.
So I said to Frank hey, theonly peppers we can get are
jalapenos, and we can get a tonof them.
So you have to make a saucewith just jalapeno, and that's
(05:56):
how Sublime was born.
Doug (05:57):
And it's a popular sauce now.
Oh, so good yeah, and good yeah, and just to catch our
listeners up.
So you mentioned you werecommitting for a year.
You are in Fulton Commons.
A couple of our other guestsoperate out of there.
They have this beautifulcommercial kitchen in the lower
level.
And you also mentioned Irwin.
Irwin Mendelssohn is one of theowners of Fulton Commons, so
(06:17):
he's giving you a little nudgeand direction.
Lisa (06:20):
Yes, what's a Pringle?
I love that.
Yes, he loves following ourstory and he loves the energy.
I come in with always someother silly story.
Oh, so perfect.
Doug (06:28):
Well, you know it's also.
We talked about this with MikeHarding and a couple of other
folks.
Yes, even just being there andseeing everyone else do their
thing and their story is alsomotivating too, and to learn
from other people like what areyou doing?
Lisa (06:50):
How are you navigating?
That we love it.
I mean because you're workingwith other entrepreneurs who are
passionate about what they'redoing.
They're friendly, you knowthey'll give you free food
samples and they'll give youadvice on your sauce, and
there's a lot of collaborationand it's very inspiring and we
love that energy.
It's been very helpful to usactually.
Doug (07:05):
That's how we first connected.
I was there for some otherlunch.
Lisa (07:08):
Thing right, yes, yes, I think Barb was doing a sampling
of her food.
That's right, AB Kitchen, ABKitchen, yes yes, and what's
great too is it's helped us withdinners.
You know we'll buy from thepeople down there.
Doug (07:21):
Oh yeah, so you can actually feed yourself.
Lisa (07:24):
Yes, yes, yes.
Doug (07:26):
Oh, that's so good.
Well, Lisa, I want to justpivot a little bit.
One of the things we haven'ttalked about yet are the
different hot sauce flavors.
You hinted at the Sublime.
Can we just do a rapid fire ofsome of them?
We don't have to do all of them.
Lisa (07:41):
Sure sure I'd be happy to.
Well, we don't have to do allof them.
Sure sure I'd be happy to Well,OG was the original sauce that
Frank made over years.
Doug (07:47):
Okay, the one you would give away to people.
Lisa (07:49):
Yes, he just had the one sauce, and but he would tweak it
each year, each harvest.
He would go to local farmer'smarkets and find cayenne peppers
, which led us to the specificcayenne pepper.
That's a whole other story.
That just took his sauce toanother level.
We just took his sauce toanother level.
We felt like it was the perfectpepper.
And then one year he was just afriend, gave him some random
peppers and he tried somethingwith that and and developed I
(08:12):
forget what we called it oh,jalapeno.
So at the time we had thiscayenne sauce, we were calling
it and we had a jalapeno sauce.
And then we ended up with atrifecta that had three peppers,
and these were the earlyrenditions of our sauces.
Doug (08:25):
Well, and can I ask about a couple of the ones that
intrigue me, ginger?
Lisa (08:29):
Oh, I love talking about ginger because, okay, like I
said, I'm, I was not a hot sauceperson, I was.
I had the business background,I was a CPA, and I was the one
that said, sure, we can start abusiness, just go into all kinds
of debt and you know, that'show you will be fine, but you
have a good viewpoint of it.
Doug (08:45):
You have a good sort of background.
Lisa (08:47):
Yes, I manage small businesses and things, so I knew
that we could do it.
Vonn (08:51):
Whereas.
Lisa (08:52):
Frank was convinced that it's not something we could do.
When we started selling hotsauce, I thought, well, I better
start eating this so I can talk, because, honestly, before we
sold it, I'm sure that I tastedhis Frank sauce.
I can't imagine I wouldn't have, but I didn't use it on any
regular basis.
It just wasn't my thing.
I don't know.
Doug (09:09):
Well, that was a question I had for later.
It's like was hot sauce a bigthing for you?
Lisa (09:13):
No it was for Frank and I love spice and flavors and
variety of food.
It just wasn't something that Ireached for, yeah.
And so when we started sellingit and I was at markets you know
different farmers markets andthings I thought, well, I better
, I need to taste this so I cantalk about it.
So a couple of years ago, wehad some leftover fermented
(09:34):
cayenne pepper because we doferment all the peppers that we
use and I thought I was feelinginspired.
I feel like trying a recipe.
I have no culinary backgroundNeither does Frank, by the way.
We have no history in this,it's just pure passion and fun.
But I was just I'd beenlistening to some podcasts and
food podcasts.
(09:55):
I said to Frank I'm feelinglike podcasts.
I said to Frank I'm feelinglike coconut milk and ginger
root for this sauce.
Doug (10:07):
And he looked at me kind of funny and said for a hot
sauce, Because it's not common.
No, that's why it kind ofsparked my interest.
Lisa (10:10):
Yes, and fast forward.
It's our most popular sauce.
It's the highest selling and itwas my first rendition of it.
Ashley (10:18):
We didn't tweak Now granted over years.
Lisa (10:21):
Frank tweaked.
He got the ratios of everythinglike how much?
Pepper how much vinegar, howmuch salt, things like that.
But I took his recipe andapplied some different
ingredients and just made aone-off batch.
I thought, yeah, and peopleloved it.
But we were all out of cayenne.
That was the last of thecayenne for the year.
So that's when we took a chanceand bought some fermented
(10:42):
cayenne pepper and I tried torecreate the ginger and I
couldn't it just wasn't the same, but it also was.
It was still good, okay.
So we tweaked that into what isnow called our bison.
That's our version of a buffalosauce.
Oh yes.
And then our artist said let'smake this a little bit different
.
Called bison it's not exactlybuffalo sauce, not exactly
buffalo, but it's close has alot of the same ingredients,
(11:03):
almost all the same ingredientsas the ginger, except for the
base.
Pepper is a different type ofcayenne, yes, so again a mistake
, that that's not that's notyeah.
Doug (11:21):
Well, I love it and I also really appreciate the names as
well as the flavor combination.
Can I ask you about one more?
Lisa (11:24):
Yes, or maybe two.
I love talking about them.
Doug (11:26):
I will admit you brought me some today and I'm excited.
But I am a little bit of a heatwimp, so anything that has a
little sweet to it.
Lisa (11:34):
So you have a sweet heat one, right, and you'll like the
ginger, because I'm a heat wimptoo.
I'm getting better.
Doug (11:39):
Yeah, me too.
Jalapeno I can handle when weget higher.
And if you're throwing Reaperinto some things, then I don't
know.
I don't know, I'll taste it forfun.
Lisa (11:47):
We have Reaper in our flair, which is based off of our
OG, but again, it's with thosecayennes that we purchase, so
it's a little saltier, a littlebit more vinegary tasting, for
some reason.
And then we added a littleReaper because we were getting
requests for something a littlehotter.
Our sauce, if you ask Americansor Pittsburghers, our sauce is
(12:07):
probably spicy, but it's not,really not in terms of hot sauce
when we look across the boardat what like hot ones is doing
and stuff like that there'sprobably some that are quite.
Doug (12:16):
They're just going for that ridiculous hot
Right Some of them are, but someof them.
Lisa (12:20):
The thing is, people have different heat tolerances and
when you get up into the higherheat I'm now experiencing this
for the first time we have thatsweet heat and it has a habanero
pepper in it.
Frank doesn't like habaneros.
We never made anything withhabanero, but we kept getting
requests, so you've got tolisten to your customers, right?
(12:44):
I made a version of the sweetheat with habanero and I wanted
it to be hot, like our flairsauce, like at least as hot as
that, and it's not.
But people love it so much thatI don't want to change it.
But I've made a couple ofversions.
Or I've made a version where Idouble the habanero because I'm
experimenting with maybeoffering a hotter one.
Yeah, and I tasted it and Isaid to Frank it was so
intriguing.
I said, yeah, it's hotter butit tastes better.
(13:06):
And he said, well, that'sbecause you're just tasting more
of the pepper.
So if you have a higher heattolerance, it just allows you to
taste a different flavor thatotherwise it just feels like
pain, so you don't even taste it.
So that's what I'm learningYou're getting into those layers
or notes of flavor, you'reexpanding your own palate.
Yes, that's so great.
Yes, it's a lot of fun.
Doug (13:27):
So much fun.
Before we move away from thesauces, did I also see a
barbecue sauce on theresomewhere.
Lisa (13:32):
Oh yes, barbecue sauce was another mistake.
I was trying to make a smokyhot sauce because we don't have
one, and I didn't want to useliquid smoke.
I try to be as what I wouldconsider authentic as possible,
and so I bought some maritasdried moritas from Reyna's.
Doug (13:54):
Down in the strip district .
I love getting dried peppersfrom Reyna's in the strip.
Yes, yes.
Lisa (13:58):
And I got these Moritas, which I now understand to be
dried and smoked red jalapenos.
Yes so red jalapenos are alittle bit sweeter and a little
bit hotter than red jalapenosare green jalapenos just left on
the vine longer.
Doug (14:12):
Yes, and then also, what I understand is a Chipotle is a
dried green jalapeno.
Lisa (14:18):
Yes so.
Doug (14:19):
Morita.
Am I saying that right?
Yep, morita is a dried redjalapeno that's also been smoked
, so it's got a great smokyflavor.
Lisa (14:26):
Oh, my goodness, the smell and the taste of it, that
smokiness is incredible yeah soI use those, I use some of our
fermented jalapeno and a numberof other ingredients.
I just kept adding things untilI got the flavor I wanted.
I have whole cherries in therewhich you can kind of taste if
you pay attention, and we havesome local raw honey.
Oh, and the other thing is well, it turned into what tastes
(14:50):
like a barbecue sauce instead ofa hot sauce.
So I just embraced that andthat's how we market it.
But one thing I wasn't thinkingof there are some people that
can't eat tomatoes, and so theygenerally can't eat barbecue
sauce.
Doug (15:02):
Yeah, there's usually the tomato paste base.
Lisa (15:04):
Yes, yes.
So I've had people that havethat situation.
They can't eat tomatoes, sothey can't eat barbecue sauce,
and they love our sauce and theysay finally, a barbecue sauce I
can eat because it's allpeppers.
Doug (15:15):
Yeah, and yours contains no tomato product, it's all
peppers.
Lisa (15:18):
Yeah, and yours contains no tomato product.
Correct, correct, and in factthe base of it, instead of
tomato, is fermented red bellpeppers.
Doug (15:28):
So yeah, because we can't have all just hot peppers,
they'll be too hot, they'llmellow it out a bit.
Yes, that's so interesting.
Lisa (15:31):
Yes, and it is so delicious, it's too hot.
I always say this my palate isgetting better with handling
heat, but it is too hot for me.
But I eat it anyway becauseit's so delicious and I'll just
have some.
I'll just have some Greekyogurt like a sour cream type
thing on the side yes To smooth
Doug (15:46):
it out.
Yes, to smooth it out.
Lisa (15:47):
And the ingredients we use .
It's expensive so I wasn'tgoing to make it, because I have
to charge like $12 a bottle.
But people buy it, yeah, so I'mmaking it, you meet where the
market is.
Doug (15:58):
Yes, yes, yes, how wonderful.
Lisa (16:01):
This is Lisa Ray with Hammajack Heat Company, and you
were listening to The PittsburghDish.
Doug (16:08):
You know you have mentioned this a couple of times
and I'm just curious becauseI've never done it.
I've never seen hot sauce made,but I do understand that there
is a fermentation process, atleast to some hot sauces, to
some.
Yes, are most of your hotsauces fermented?
Lisa (16:23):
All of our hot sauces include fermented peppers.
Doug (16:26):
Let me just ask you, because I'm intrigued by the
science of it, when you're doingthis, when we're going to
ferment a pepper, let's talkabout how and why.
So what does this look likewhen you're going to ferment
some peppers?
Are you putting them all in acontainer with salt or just
water and a lid Like?
How does that work?
Lisa (16:45):
Well, it has changed as we ramped up.
It was different when Frankwould make it at home.
Doug (16:50):
Yeah.
Lisa (16:50):
And only make 30 bottles of hot sauce at a time for a
season.
He would ferment the peppers inbrine.
Okay, so he would chop up thepeppers, put them in salt water
yes, and the key was then to puta weight on top of the peppers
to make sure none of the pepperwas exposed to air.
Doug (17:07):
You got to keep it under the water.
Yes, Under the water.
Lisa (17:09):
So there's no brine under the brine under the brine, so
there's no oxygen exposed.
So that's, that's what wouldcreate mold.
Doug (17:15):
Would you see little bubbles coming up then?
Lisa (17:18):
After just a day or a couple of days, you see little
bubbles coming up.
Yes, they'll be in glass jars,yeah.
Doug (17:22):
So if someone's intrigued and I've also seen like
fermenting, like ball jars thathave sort of a release lever and
stuff too If somebody wants todo this at home, you can't.
You're leaving it on thecounter at room temperature.
Lisa (17:35):
You're not putting it in the fridge or anything the
fridge or anything.
No, that would stop thefermentation or prevent it.
I mean I do it at home in justa regular 16 ounce Mason jar
with cabbage for sauerkraut, andI just have it sitting on my
counter for a couple of weeks.
Doug (17:47):
And let's talk about the why for the peppers.
What does that do versus usinga fresh pepper?
I mean, is it necessary becauseof mold or is it a flavor
enhancer?
Lisa (17:56):
Right, right.
Well, and first of all, when wedid the brine, when we came to
Fulton Commons, actually, one ofthe chefs that was working
there said why aren't you doingmash?
You can fit so much more thandoing a brine.
So what?
We do now is we chop thepeppers up and then mash them.
Doug (18:11):
Yes.
Lisa (18:12):
And we don't add any water , and we just add salt.
So this is like the liquid fromthe peppers now have been
really released and exposed.
Yes, interesting.
And then we mix salt in withthe peppers and then we put
what's called a salt cap on topof them.
Then we seal it with a littlerelease valve that allows gas to
escape, but nothing to come in,no new oxygen to come in so
(18:33):
that's what we do now is themash.
Doug (18:35):
That's the pro way.
Lisa (18:36):
Right, right, right, and it was very scary.
The first year we did itActually, that was last fall we
had over a thousand pounds ofmash.
Doug (18:47):
Yeah.
Lisa (18:47):
And we did not have experience.
Doug (18:49):
Yeah, You're like I hope this works.
Lisa (18:51):
Yes, and it did.
Doug (18:53):
Yeah, well, I'm asking about the mason jar way for our
listeners, because I don't thinkI'm going to do that either,
but I'm so glad it worked out.
You didn't have any bigexplosions or anything.
No, we had.
Lisa (19:06):
Actually one time James, who now owns Wise County I
remember him texting me orcalling me One of your buckets
has some pepper stuff coming outof the top because we had
filled it too close to the top.
Doug (19:17):
Oh yeah, a little out of the top because we had filled it
too close to the top.
Oh yeah, a little air.
Lisa (19:21):
Uh, what's that called headspace?
Doug (19:22):
yes you need to allow headspace because it is going to
bubble and it is going to, youknow, rise doing its thing yes,
so it snuck out and getting backto what's the why behind it
with the peppers, oh yes yes,frank just always fermented this
the peppers for the saucebecause that's what he had
wanted to do.
Lisa (19:40):
I wasn't sure why, but it does definitely give it a unique
flavor.
It's a richer, deeper flavorthan just a plain pepper, and
for our purposes, because welike to use the local peppers.
They're only in season for acouple of months, so once you
put them in fermentation theyare now good for months or years
(20:00):
oh yeah, because you'vepreserved them like you would a
sauerkraut or something yeah,that makes so much
it's amazing that you can takethis fresh produce and not even
have to refrigerate it.
Just mix some salt in, you know, to simplify it.
They can sit there for monthsor years years.
Doug (20:16):
I never thought about that .
Thank you so much for theeducation.
I'm asking truly because I wantto know.
Lisa (20:22):
Yeah, yeah, it is interesting and I guess I always
thought that maybe all hotsauces had fermented peppers,
but they don't.
There's a variety of them and Iwill have people asking
specifically.
They're looking for fermentedsauces because it does have a
different flavor.
Doug (20:37):
And I also think what I'm gathering from some food trends
in the world too is fermentationhelps with digestion, it
enhances flavors.
As you said, it's breaking downsome of the cells and the
different components of whateveryou're fermenting and it just
makes food taste better.
Lisa (20:54):
And it's good for your gut bacteria.
Now the issue is we then cookit?
Doug (20:59):
So you're pasteurized in a way.
Lisa (21:01):
It is pasteurized Now, before we cook it, we always
pour some in some bottles forourselves.
Right, because we want thatbeneficial bacteria and in the
future I do want to market that.
We call it raw, like our rawginger, our raw OG.
Doug (21:15):
Would that have to be like refrigerated then, after
bottling I?
Lisa (21:18):
still have to do more research, because when I
actually spoke with the healthdepartment, they told me it
would actually be shelf stablebecause our pH is so low.
Yeah, but once we open it,maybe we'd have to refrigerate
it.
I need to really dive deep.
Doug (21:33):
We'll be on the lookout for that.
Lisa (21:35):
But I've had.
All my friends have tried it.
They say it tastes even better.
I mean, I think it tastesbetter too, but, I we started
doing it because of thebeneficial the health benefits.
The health benefits yeah,everyone loves a health benefit
out of something fun like hotsauce, right, something that
tastes great, right, right?
Although I'm very careful, alot of my friends will say why
don't you promote more that youdon't have any bad items?
(21:55):
Quote, unquote bad items.
You know ingredients in yoursauces because they're all whole
foods.
We don't use any binders, anyfillers but, I want to be
careful to not make claims.
Doug (22:04):
Right.
Lisa (22:05):
So I don't.
I'm not big on saying allnatural or any of that.
I want to let it speak foritself.
The all of our labels have theingredients quite large because
we're proud of the ingredients,but I don't make that an
advertising point, okay, fair.
Doug (22:20):
All right, Lisa, I want to pivot a little bit.
You guys have been at it forthree years or so, right, and I
guess in that time youdiscovered that there has not
been a hot sauce festival before.
Lisa (22:33):
Right In Pittsburgh.
Right, how great I meanPittsburgh is a festival town.
That's right.
Yeah, Right, how great I meanPittsburgh is a festival town.
That's right.
I mean, last year we discoveredthere's a mac and cheese fest
and what goes better on mac andcheese than hot sauce?
That's right.
So we went there it was at oneday and we sold a ton of hot
sauce, but there's progi fest.
There's of course.
Picklesburg right and which isknown across the country.
(22:55):
And there's so many festivalstacos, et cetera, et cetera but
there's not a hot sauce festival.
Doug (23:02):
Where it's the star.
Lisa (23:03):
Right when it is.
Just, yeah, hot sauce is themain event and that's very
popular in other cities.
Yeah, so we went to our firstone.
My husband and I went to ourfirst one in Cincinnati just
about a year ago, last AugustJungle Jim's.
It's a very large grocery store.
Doug (23:21):
I have heard of Jungle Lims.
It's an experience?
Yes, it's a thing.
Lisa (23:25):
It's overwhelming.
I don't know how you could shopthere.
There's too much going on.
But we went there for theirweekend of fire, they called it.
It was two days with plenty ofhot sauce vendors.
We were one of about 50 hotsauce vendors.
So these are all of ourcompetitors in the same room.
It was our first timeexperiencing this and the thing
(23:45):
that really left an impressionon Frank and I was how helpful
and kind and supportive allthese other makers were here.
We are like new kids on theblock and they're giving us
advice.
I mean, obviously nobody sharestheir recipes.
We're not talking recipes, butwe met people who do
fermentation as well and wetalked about that.
(24:06):
We talked about co-packing,advertising.
They're just so helpful,they're really supportive and I
feel like Pittsburgh, I feellike the food world of
Pittsburgh or the foodbusinesses, is very similar to
that.
It's, I like to say it's verymuch the mentality of the rising
tide raises all ships.
Doug (24:28):
We hear that a lot on this show and I love it.
I see it too.
Lisa (24:31):
Yes, and not just food.
Small businesses that's right.
There's so many collaborationsI mean, look at how many
breweries there are inPittsburgh and they they're
co-supportive of each other.
Doug (24:40):
The pizza places, all the pizza people really support each
other, even though, to yourpoint, they're sort of
competitors, but not becausethey're all so different.
Lisa (24:47):
Right, and that's the thing, because they're all so
different.
If you like pizza, you want totry all the pizzas, that's right
.
If you like hot sauce, you wantto try all the hot sauces these
people have collections, likeI've seen basements with shelves
of hot sauces.
Doug (25:01):
So you're onto it.
Lisa (25:02):
And I've had stores tell me well, we'll only carry your
hot sauce, it being nice, and Isay that's great.
I appreciate that.
But I'm not offended if youcarry another hot sauce, because
I know the hot sauce market.
I know those consumers, theywant to try all the hot sauces.
So the idea of having a hotsauce festival.
(25:28):
I mean it's really cool to thinkI've invited 17 of my
competitors have agreed to cometo this event and it's a pretty
cool feeling and I think afterthey talk with me and understand
where I'm coming from, they'reexcited to participate.
Doug (25:38):
Can we just give a couple high-level details.
This hot sauce festival ishappening this coming October
4th.
Lisa (25:44):
Yes, it's a Saturday.
First Saturday in October.
Doug (25:47):
Okay, so it's happening October 4th 2025.
Yes, as you've said, you're upto 17-ish vendors.
Lisa (25:53):
Including us, it'll be 18 hot sauce vendors.
Doug (25:55):
Yeah, and there's going to be other folks there too.
Lisa (25:57):
Yes we'll have food vendors and things.
Doug (26:01):
Because you other folks there too, yes, we'll have food
vendors and things, because yougot to pair it yes, exactly.
Lisa (26:05):
Will you do a hot ones?
Yes, tasting of course, in coldfriends kitchen we'll be making
the wings.
Doug (26:08):
That's great oh, they're great.
I follow them on instagram aswell, so that's fun yes, they'll
be making the wings we have.
Lisa (26:15):
We have a hot pepper eating contest for crazy people,
and I'm talking carolina reapertype peppers, and these people
eat a lot of them.
Doug (26:22):
They have to have like medical staff handy, just in
case.
Lisa (26:26):
So the hot pepper eating contest and, for what I like to
say, the little bit less crazypeople, but still crazy.
And we have our fire and icechallenge where you eat a hot
pepper and it can be a jalapeno,it depends on your heat
tolerance, but you consider hotand then you get an ice bath
because Pittsburgh tub club willbe there.
So you do the fire and icechallenge.
It's free to attendees and foreach person who does it we're
(26:50):
going to donate $20 to animalfriends for veterans.
So we can guilt people into it.
Doug (26:54):
Come on, you got to do it for the dogs and the veterans.
Oh my gosh, that's perfect.
Lisa, I love that.
Lisa (26:59):
So much fun we're going to have a fire entertainer, a
person flying through the air acouple times.
Wow, it's just so much fun.
Where is the location?
It's at Velum Fermentation.
Doug (27:09):
Okay, it's in the south side right under the Iron City
Clock.
That's right, the new clockthat just lit up, yes, oh my
gosh.
Lisa (27:21):
And tickets are available for pre-sale right now on your
website.
Is that right?
They are very much availableand I really want people to
pre-buy, but I understand that'snot very common.
Most people wait to the lastminute.
Doug (27:29):
And so they are a little cheaper on your website right
now.
If they pre-buy, I thinkthey're $15 if you pre-purchase,
yes, and $20 at the door yes,all right, so save five bucks.
Lisa (27:39):
Yeah, save five bucks, and actually starting October 1st.
If you buy them online, it'salso $20.
Doug (27:43):
Okay, so they're going to go up.
Lisa (27:45):
Yes.
Doug (27:45):
So go get your ticket and go.
Lisa (27:47):
Yes, yes.
Doug (27:48):
All right.
So let's recap that for ourlisteners too.
Lisa (27:56):
So this is Saturday, October 4th.
Yes, and what time of day Forgeneral admission?
It starts at 1230 in theafternoon and it runs until 6 PM
.
For VIP ticket holders itstarts at 11.
Doug (28:03):
AM A little pre yes.
Schmooze and taste and dowhatever you want, right.
Lisa (28:09):
And they will have their own scavenger hunt arranged for
that time period where they willlook for things and they'll.
There will be prizes awardedand they will at least for the
first 100 VIP ticket buyersthey'll get their own tote bag
to carry all the hot sauces theypurchase.
Doug (28:25):
And you did mention food vendors hot sauce vendors, of
course.
They're all sort of selling andsampling their stuff.
Is this like a limited capacitything, like could you sell out?
People should probably know.
Lisa (28:35):
Yes, it definitely can sell out, and I expect it to.
We are capping it at 1,500people and that includes the
volunteers and people running it.
Doug (28:45):
Yeah, yeah.
Lisa (28:45):
Because Vellum is a large place for a brewery, but it
still can't hold an unlimitednumber of people.
Doug (28:50):
The whole city.
Yeah, right, right right, wecan't do a Picklesburg right in
there.
Right, right right, this mightreally have a thing.
So again a reason to get sometickets ahead of time before
they sell out.
Lisa (28:59):
And one thing I did want to mention is at Velum they also
have this very large game roomwith pinball machines and a pool
table, and that's going to beincluded as well.
Doug (29:09):
A lot of good things, and of course beer.
Of course.
Well, that goes with wings hotsauce yes, yes, yes, and
non-alcoholic.
Lisa (29:17):
we'll have ginger beer there.
Actually, Jackworth ginger beeris going to be there 111 Juice
we love that An ice cream place.
You know things to cool yourpalate.
Doug (29:24):
Yeah, yeah, and the NA movement is something that I
think is super important.
So there's always so I keepsaying there's always some
options and that's just such agood thing.
Lisa (29:38):
Yes, yes, not even for people, and you're being
responsible.
Doug (29:40):
Yeah, I love that Well well-planned, and we're wishing
you the best.
Lisa (29:44):
Thank you, thank you, I'm very, very excited.
Doug (29:47):
Lisa, I did want to pivot a little bit and just ask some
background.
You and Frank had this businessfor years.
Did you both grow up in thelocal?
Lisa (29:54):
area.
Yeah, we are passionate aboutPittsburgh.
We love it.
Doug (29:57):
Frank grew up the first part of his life in Crafton not
very far from where we are rightnow, not very far from where
we're recording.
Lisa (30:02):
Yeah, and then he moved to Baldwin and I similarly grew up
in Baldwin.
I moved a few places when I wasyounger, but we've been born
and raised in Pittsburgh Alwaysin the Pittsburgh area.
Yes, so we love it.
Doug (30:15):
For you before you met Frank.
What was food life like?
Did you ever think hot saucewould be in your future?
Lisa (30:19):
Never, I didn't even know it existed Really, I mean before
Frank.
I mean he and I have beentogether since I was 19 years
old, so yeah, it just wasn'teven on my radar whatsoever.
I knew from a young age youngbeing shortly after college that
(30:40):
I wanted to manage businesses,or have my own small business,
which we did with the bathroomremodeling business, because
Frank is incredible with allthings home related.
He can build a whole househimself.
So we took his skills and mybusiness background and made
that happen for 14 years.
We sustained ourselves on thatbusiness and made that happen
(31:00):
for 14 years.
We sustained ourselves on thatbusiness.
Prior to that, frank was aboilermaker for over 20 years.
Wow, and he was pretty high upin the boilermakers at the time.
But yes, that's a little bit ofbackground about us.
But, yeah, no culinaryexperience whatsoever Other than
we cook for ourselves at home.
Doug (31:16):
And we love food.
I was going to ask are youfoodies, or do you even like to
cook at home?
We do.
I love food.
I was going to ask are you afoodies or?
Lisa (31:20):
do you even like to cook at home?
We do, yeah, yeah.
And we like experimenting.
You know we make.
I make my own sauerkraut, frankwill make homemade pizzas.
We don't do it a whole lot, butwe do love, we do prepare our
own food at home and we enjoyexperimenting with it.
And our son does as well.
Doug (31:34):
Excellent, my, my insider question, then, is which hot
sauces are you grabbing or usingthe most at home, or do you
have a dish or two that you liketo?
Lisa (31:44):
It depends on the dish, I used to unequivocally say ginger
.
A lot of people, when they seeme at a market selling sauce, a
lot of people will ask what's myfavorite sauce and I tell them
it is the ginger.
If I had to pick just one, ithappens to be the best seller
too.
But anytime I'm making steak Ireach for the trifecta because I
didn't realize it's like thebest steak sauce.
(32:05):
Wow, it's a really good steaksauce and Frank uses flair a lot
, especially in a breakfastburrito or in a chicken noodle
soup.
Doug (32:15):
Interesting.
Lisa (32:16):
You know what else is really good.
You know what else is reallygood.
Any of our sauces or other hotsauces in a plain ramen noodle
bowl.
It just gives it some flavor adifferent flavor.
Doug (32:26):
It's a picker up or two, because there's a little like
vinegary-ness to it and thatheat.
Lisa (32:31):
Excellent, yeah, so it depends.
I mean our sublime I love onhard boiled eggs, oh my goodness
.
But the sweet heat, that's ourlatest flavor and that's
delicious on everything.
Actually, actually, I just hadthat on vanilla ice cream.
Wow, you have to try it,because up front, when you have
that sweet heat, you get thelocal maple syrup and whole
(32:54):
peaches.
You get that flavor.
So it is quite sweet up front,yes.
And then the habanero comes atthe end.
Some people call it a sneakysauce.
Doug (33:02):
Yes, the heat comes, sneaks up on you.
Lisa (33:03):
Yes, and instead of vinegar.
This is the only sauce we makethat doesn't have vinegar.
It has a local kombucha.
Doug (33:10):
Oh wow Vibrant sunshine.
Lisa (33:11):
Yes, so it's very smooth.
It doesn't have that vinegarsharpness.
Yeah, expecting it might beokay.
It was phenomenal.
Doug (33:19):
Did you mention you're going to have an ice cream or
milk or something at the hotsauce festival?
Lisa (33:26):
We are going to have an ice cream stand.
The Parkside Creamery will bethere.
I met them at an event earlierthis summer.
A nice little place.
The owners were very nice,their product was delicious, and
I really wanted to promotesmall businesses at this
festival.
Absolutely so, and I havetalked to them about having the
sweet heat.
Doug (33:46):
Yeah, I would say you have a moment to sprinkle that on
and try it out.
Lisa (33:49):
Yes, how perfect.
Yes, thanks for reminding meabout that.
There's so many things toremember for the festival, but
yes, Earlier, you asked me toremind you about milk.
Oh yes.
Well, if you've watched HotOnes, for example, lots of
people are familiar with that.
They have a glass of water andthey have a glass of milk.
A lot of people will use milkto calm down or cool down their
(34:10):
mouth.
Doug (34:10):
They think it's taking some of the capsaicin away.
Yes, yes.
Lisa (34:14):
Yeah, I honestly don't know.
I do know that when I did asampling last week of our
version of hot ones, our lineupmilk seemed to help me.
Granted, I'm only having alittle drop of the hot sauce.
Doug (34:27):
Right, you're touching the tongue and like, okay, that's
enough.
Lisa (34:29):
Yes, but my understanding is beer or not just beer,
alcohol actually helps evaporatethe capsaicin off your tongue?
I'm not sure.
Yeah, but I do know thatchocolate does the opposite.
So if you are offered achocolate hot sauce, I'm not
saying don't have it, because itcan be delicious, but it will
stick to your tongue, it's goingto linger.
(34:50):
Yes, wow, it's going to linger,but it's interesting but I
really I don't have that part ofthe festival covered in terms
of a milk source well, maybesomeone will hear this and be
like hey, right exactly.
Doug (35:04):
Well, I'm so excited and so let's just kind of move on
and talk about that a little bitmore.
We've said that that's the bigevent happening October 4th for
the business.
Are there any other goals orevents happening in the coming
year?
Anything, anything else newcoming up?
Lisa (35:20):
You know it's funny.
We're just kind of rolling withour gut and where this takes us
I did not expect.
For example, just last month,Giant Eagle Market District two
of the Market District storesstarted carrying our sauce
Thanks to three rivers grown.
That's our distributor.
We sell to most of the most ofthe stores that we sell to.
(35:40):
I sell directly to and I likethat relationship and
distributor.
We sell to most of the most ofthe stores that we sell to.
I sell directly to and I likethat relationship and I deliver
it to them and and that's veryhelpful like wise county
biscuits or mort's.
Yes, uh-huh coffee, yes, yes andalso especially people can
order directly on your websiteyes, yes, which is always great
when we get to online orders,but three rivers grown also
distributes our product toplaces like Wholeys and a number
(36:04):
of other places, and GiantEagle was one of their largest
clients and I really honestlyeven told them that's not.
I'm not, that's not a goal ofours to get into Giant Eagle,
because number one, that's a lotof stores.
Doug (36:17):
That is a lot of stores.
Lisa (36:19):
For us to really ramp up.
And then I had a fear of themwanting a discount because our
sauce is not inexpensive.
Doug (36:26):
Right.
Lisa (36:26):
You know, to sit on the shelf next to these less
expensive sauces may not go overwell.
However, the Giant Eagle MarketDistrict is a little bit
elevated.
Yeah more curated.
Doug (36:37):
And they have a focus on local.
Lisa (36:39):
Yes, yes, they do.
So two of the stores startedcarrying our product two months
ago.
And then, the next thing I knowwell, Three Rivers Grown said
to me I can probably get youinto some more of those market
district stores and I saidplease don't, because I don't
want to run out of product.
I have this fear of growing toofast and we've been growing
organically.
(36:59):
I think that's uh, that's valid.
Doug (37:01):
You know you want to maintain a good product, you
want to have fun with it.
Lisa (37:05):
Yeah, there's a certain degree of pressure and we want
the quality to maintain bemaintained right however, a few
weeks later I got an orderthrough an email for our largest
order ever for all six marketdistricts, because they wanted
to have us on special for thewhole month of August.
So, they have us on sale onspecial displays.
It is just unbelievable.
(37:27):
It really.
If we were to have created agoal for ourselves, I wouldn't
even be thinking market districtwould be attainable at this
stage in our business.
Oh great.
And, and even better, theydidn't ask for a discount.
Doug (37:40):
Yeah, yay, well, that's a good news story all around.
Lisa (37:45):
Yes.
Doug (37:45):
Wishing you all the best in that.
Lisa (37:47):
So we're just rolling with it, and we could have never
predicted that or forecasted orplanned for it.
So I don't want to limit myselfby coming up with some grand
plan.
I'm not good at that.
Anyway, you're still rollingwith it.
Doug (37:59):
I'm good at rolling with it, it's working.
Lisa (38:00):
Yes.
Doug (38:02):
Well, if people want to actually buy direct from you or
even just follow you, why don'twe remind folks of your?
Lisa (38:13):
website and any social media that you like to do.
Where can people find andfollow you?
Yes, well, they can go to ourwebsite at hamajackcom that's
H-A-M-M-A-J-A-C-Kcom, and theycan order there.
We ship across the country andwe are most active on Instagram.
Our handle is at HammajackSauce and we are also on
Facebook.
(38:34):
My sister recently created aTikTok account for us, but I'm
not good at maintaining those.
Fortunately, anything I post toInstagram does mostly go to
Facebook.
Doug (38:44):
I do the same, yes.
Lisa (38:46):
And it also posts to our website.
Doug (38:48):
Oh, that's good yeah.
Lisa (38:49):
Yeah, yes so, but Instagram is the most popular.
Doug (38:52):
Yeah, where you're most active.
Yes, it's where I'm most active, so people need to look you up,
give you a follow.
Lisa (38:57):
Yes, we need some more followers.
We have 730, some followers,and I thought, oh, it'd be great
to get to a thousand.
Doug (39:03):
I think we'll do that.
Yeah, yeah, all right, lisa.
The name of the show is ThePittsburgh Dish.
I always have a final questionfor our guests.
Oh, that's right.
What was the best dish you hadto eat this past week?
Lisa (39:18):
Wow, there are so many amazing places to eat in
Pittsburgh and unfortunately, Idon't get out to many of them
often.
However, there's a place nearFulton Commons that I happened
to pop into a couple of days ago.
Actually, it was Wise CountyCafe.
I'm there often because Ideliver sauce there, et cetera,
(39:41):
and I had it seems like such asimple dish.
I had their chicken saladsandwich.
They make the most simplethings so delicious and complex
in flavor.
You know it was a chicken saladsandwich, but it had a pickle
flavor in it, a very lemonflavor.
(40:02):
It was delicious.
It was actually the first timein a while that I ate too much.
I felt too full.
I've been doing pretty goodwith not overeating lately, but
it was just too good.
I should have stopped at thefirst half, but it was delicious
, it was the best bite?
Doug (40:17):
Yes, and this is at Wise County Cafe.
Wise County Biscuits on thenorth side.
Lisa (40:21):
Yes, yes, yeah, and I had a little side salad and it was
very fulfilling.
Doug (40:27):
Lisa Rae, it has been such a pleasure to talk with you and
learn about hot sauce.
Thank you so much for takingsome time and thanks for being
on The Pittsburgh Dish.
Lisa (40:35):
Well, thank you so much for having me.
I love talking about hot sauce.
Doug (40:40):
This is great.
You're in the right field Upnext if you're constantly on the
hunt for the next great sliceof pizza, ashley Cesarotto
shares one of her favorites.
Hey everyone, we're joinedtoday with Ashley Cesaratto of
Eating with Ashley on Instagram.
Ashley, I always like to askwhere you're going out and about
(41:02):
for some new bites.
I was wondering this week ifyou've tried any new pizza
places.
Ashley (41:08):
Well, a pizza place that I keep going back to again and
again is Vitalia Wood Fired Oven, and they're actually a food
truck.
Yeah, they go to a lot ofdifferent places.
Their home base is kind of inthe Cranberry area.
Ok but they'll go to festivalsand different events.
They do it with cannoli and itlooks super fun.
(41:30):
So if any of your listeners arelooking for something different
for a party like that's, thatwould be a great choice.
Doug (41:50):
Now, where were they camped out when you had them
last?
Ashley (41:53):
They were in Cranberry.
So there was I think there weretwo weekends where we went
twice in a row.
Well, because they had somespecials that were just insanely
delicious.
Doug (42:03):
And I'm not going to reveal where Ashley lives, but
I'm going to say this is alittle bit of a drive.
You went there on purposebecause it's so good.
Ashley (42:10):
Yeah, I mean it's mostly highway, you know.
Doug (42:12):
Yeah, it was worth it.
Ashley (42:13):
It was absolutely worth it.
Doug (42:15):
So mainly you've driven to Cranberry to have Vitalia.
Have you located them anywhereelse?
Ashley (42:21):
They actually catered my brother and sister in law's
wedding.
Oh yeah, so they'll.
They'll do different events.
Sometimes they're maybe outsideof a hospital, or they'll do
festivals and things in thesummertime.
Oh, that's so cool.
Doug (42:36):
So I guess it would be best to maybe check out their
website or their social handlesto see where they'll be.
And so we're talking aboutVitalia wood fired oven.
It's a food truck and you needto check them out.
They're worth the stop.
Ashley (42:49):
Absolutely, and they keep their socials very updated.
They always pin their scheduleevery week.
Doug (42:55):
So they're super easy to find.
So smart Ashley.
Thanks so much.
Ashley (42:59):
Sure, thank you.
Doug (43:05):
You can follow Ashley on Instagram at eatingwithashleypgh
.
What recipe is in constantrotation at your house?
Vaughn Jennings and Shaquayla,dukes of Brigade Lemonade share
one of their favorite dishes.
Vaughn, when we were here last,we talked all about your and
Quay's business making all ofthese great flavors of lemonade,
but I noticed that you guyswere talking about loving to
(43:27):
cook as well at home.
Is there a recipe that you makethat is sort of on the rotation
all the time, or just somethingthat's super special?
Vonn (43:37):
Oh, let's see, there is a jamaican mushroom jerk pasta
that I make.
Oh, chef's kiss, oh yeah, um,and you have to get the mafalda
noodles, oh yes you have to.
You have to get those mushrooms.
Of course, I make everythingfrom scratch sauce peppers, uh,
uh, get your Scotch bonnetpeppers, oh, a little spice
there oh, she's a spice girl.
Doug (43:59):
Oh, everything has to be spicy make it hot, but you like
this Quay, you like this.
I love it.
Vonn (44:03):
I love it I just I'm not as much of a spicy girl, so I'll
be having to say not and not asheavy.
I look, tone it down just a tad, but with the pasta it's
perfect actually yeah, it's Ilove it that, just the way that
she makes it.
Doug (44:20):
Describe it a little bit more to me.
Is it like saucy?
Yes, do you like, use a Cajun?
Vonn (44:23):
seasoning.
Yes, so it is saucy, I makeit's like an Alfredo sauce.
Yeah, I make it from scratch.
Oh, so it's a plant-based heavywhipping cream, of course some
seasonings mixed in, and it hasto simmer because it actually
darkens.
Oh man listen, I'm going tomake you some.
Doug (44:42):
It sounds delicious, and I mean great for plant-based, but
I imagine you could add someshrimp in there or something if
you wanted to.
Yeah, because I told you I'mnot giving up my seafood.
I know you said this to mebefore, all right, so what do
you call it again?
Vonn (44:54):
The Jamaican jerk pasta mushroom pasta.
Doug (44:56):
Jamaican jerk mushroom pasta.
I'm going to get that recipefrom you.
Yes, Vonn Quay, thank you bothfor being on The Pittsburgh Dish
.
Vonn (45:04):
Thank you for having us.
Thank you and thank you forPittsburgh Dish.
My guy, Douglas, he has thingsto say and it's amazing.
Thank you again.
Doug (45:10):
Douglas.
Thank you both.
Do you have a recipe?
Share it with us?
Just visit our website atwwwpittsburghdishcom and look
for our share a recipe form.
If you enjoyed the show,consider buying us a coffee for
this episode or supporting theshow monthly.
(45:30):
You can find links to thoseoptions at the bottom of our
show description, and if youwant to follow my own food
adventures, you can find me onsocial media at Doug Cooking.
That's our show for this week.
Thanks again to all of ourguests and contributors and to
Kevin Solecki of Carnegieaccordion company for providing
the music to our show.
We'll be back again next weekwith another fresh episode.
(45:51):
Stay tuned.
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