November 4, 2021 • 59 mins
Ladies, there’s a lot of bullsh*t in this world and a lot of that bullsh*t has some new names. Whatever it’s called, it’s emotionally manipulative AND it’s effin’ bullsh*t. More importantly, being on the receiving end of this BS can make you question your sanity, your judgement, and your relationships.
In this episode, we want to know what the hell is the difference between “ghosting” and “caspering”? Who the hell came up with “negging” and what are they trying to achieve? Where the hell are these supposed “breadcrumbs” supposed to lead?
But the most important question, dear WarriorQueens, isn’t “Why would some asshole do this to me?” It’s “How quickly am I going to recognize this BS as BS and scrape it (and the assh*le that put it there) off my high-heeled shoe?”
So, grab a glass of something ice-cold, ladies. We’re delving deep into this emotionally toxic BS so you never have to again.
Cheryl's drink this eve:
Sticking with iced tea tonight.
Stasha's mocktail tonight:
Grapefruit juice and grapefruit sparkling water in a fancy glass.
Episode notes and links:
Beadcrumbing: Giving a person just enough info to keep them hanging on, hoping a relationship exists. Could be romantic or a friend.
Negging: Saying insulting or otherwise negative things to a person to affect their self-esteem or to make them defend themselves. Can escalate into very abusive behavior, often an early warning sign of an abusive, toxic person or relationship
Ghosting: Cutting off all communication without explanation.
Submarining: When someone ghosts, then suddenly returns and acts like nothing happened.
Caspering: Rather than simply ignore your texts, the Casper will respond to your text 12 hours later with a vague but friendly reply. Instead of not replying to an invitation to hang out, the Casper will hint that they're interested, without any intention of following through.
Catfishing: Someone who uses a fake identity to lure dates online.
Fishing: When someone will send out messages to a bunch of people to see who’d be interested in hooking up, wait to see who responds, then take their pick of who they want to get with. It’s called fishing because the fisher loads up on bait, waits for one fish to bite, then ignores all the others.
Fleabagging: consistently dating people that are wrong for you.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Stasha Boyd (00:01):
Hi there, I'm Stasha.
Cheryl Stuller (00:03):
I'm Cheryl.
Stasha Boyd (00:05):
And between us we
Cheryl Stuller (00:05):
have four kids,
Stasha Boyd (00:07):
three businesses,
Cheryl Stuller (00:08):
two husbands and one goal:
Stasha Boyd (00:10):
To get to The Point of the Matter.
Cheryl Stuller (00:11):
These little seemingly small behaviors that
really aren't small, if they areaffecting your well being, if
they are affecting yourconfidence if they are affecting
your relationship, it's, it's atime to self reflect, and
decide, do I still want to be inthis situation with this person?
Stasha Boyd (00:35):
The solution to every single one of these is in
you. They are all in you.
Because these people fixingtheir bad behavior is not going
to happen. They are going tocontinue doing this. If they're,
if they're, you know, doing it,they're gonna keep doing it.
Assholes are gonna keepassholing, that's just what they
do. Cheryl, we're back. It'salmost like we never left.
Cheryl Stuller (01:03):
Can you believe this is our 25th episode?
Stasha Boyd (01:06):
No, I cannot believe that this is our 25th
episode. I was looking at thatand thinking, A: it doesn't seem
like it's been that long. And Iwent through our the Buzzsprout
thing the other day and justlooked at all the titles and all
the things that we've beenchatting on. I'm like, that is,
that is an amazing list oftitles, I think.
Cheryl Stuller (01:25):
I think so.
Yeah, absolutely. I'mprivileged, I'm privileged that
we are still doing this and thatpeople are still listening. So
we appreciate all of that.
Stasha Boyd (01:35):
And people are trying to give us comments. I
heard from one of my friends,she tried to put a comment on
Spotify. And it's not showing upand I can't figure out why not.
So I've sent a note into Spotifyto see, I must have some setting
wrong or something, but to seeif we can, because maybe people
are trying to comment on Spotifyor iTunes or something. And
(01:55):
we're just not seeing that. So,listeners out there. If you try
to comment on something and itdoesn't show up. Please get in
touch with us, Facebook us orInstagram, let us know. Because
we won't know if, you know,people don't tell us.
Cheryl Stuller (02:09):
Absolutely. And it seems like we're back to the
week of no drinking because wedrank much. This continues to be
a theme for us. I don't knowwhat's happening to us over the
weekends.
Stasha Boyd (02:24):
I know what's happening to me. And what's
happening to me is that I amreally enjoying people again.
And and for me, I feel like it'sbecause I've had to make a
decision about the COVIDsituation and whatnot. Um, I
have I am vaccinated. I'm a bigbeliever in vaccines. I know a
lot of people who are not andthey are not vaccinated or
whatnot. But I have had to makethe decision that I have done
(02:47):
the best I can I have protectedmyself the best I can. And and I
can't keep staying away fromplaces and people out of that
concern. So I'm I'm at the pointnow where I'm willing to risk
getting, you know, eithergetting sick or even, you know,
if I catch it and pass it on tosomebody else who's not
vaccinated, that's on them. Ican't worry about it anymore. I
(03:08):
got to have my life back. And sothat's that's what it is for me.
I'm feeling a little bitunleashed.
Cheryl Stuller (03:17):
Okay, well.
Stasha Boyd (03:19):
Yours is not that is what we're saying.
Cheryl Stuller (03:21):
Mine is not that. I just need to rein myself
in.
Stasha Boyd (03:29):
Yeah, and that's the thing. I think that's true
of a lot of things. It's likewhen things are starting to kind
of go, get out of balance. It isa matter of being able to take
yourself in hand and go okay,look, this is, this is nuts. I
think a lot of people sometimesthey don't question and they'll
see the solution is inthemselves. The solution is you
have to make a change. You'vegot to make a decision.
Cheryl Stuller (03:49):
Yeah, absolutely. So I'm drinking
water tonight, I'm being a goodgirl.
Stasha Boyd (03:54):
And I'm drinking grapefruit juice with grapefruit
juice sparkling water in it. Iam however using my little fancy
glass. I found these atGoodwill. So I got little um,
these are what's the tequiladrink? The tequila drink that
you drink with these glasses?
Cheryl Stuller (04:12):
Oh, a margarita?
Stasha Boyd (04:13):
Thank you. Good god, my brain. Margarita. It's a
margarita glass that has like alittle saguaro cactus, green
stand and the big- so I justfound three of them at Goodwill
and I thought they were cute andkitchy. So I just picked them
up.
Cheryl Stuller (04:27):
Alright, what are we talking about today?
Stasha Boyd (04:30):
We are talking about, essentially, in a
nutshell, it's bullshit behaviorin dating. But it really is
about mental manipulation,mental health manipulation and
emotional manipulation ofpeople. A lot of these things
are related to dating. So it'sbeen friends of ours that have
experienced this but it's alsojust related to life and work
(04:50):
etc. and regular friendshiprelationships. So we've taken as
a society to giving them cutesynames. I have, I take a very
hard line on the cutesy names,but we'll talk about that later.
But you'd actually brought upthe the idea and you mentioned
our first our first word, so whydon't you take it away with,
with that one.
Cheryl Stuller (05:10):
Breadcrumbing? I didn't know what that was.
Stasha Boyd (05:13):
How'd you find out about it?
Cheryl Stuller (05:15):
Uh, on an episode of Will and Grace.
Stasha Boyd (05:21):
And you're watching that, you know, with your like
iced tea in hand going, wait,what?
Cheryl Stuller (05:24):
No, I'm watching that with my vodka. And I'm
going, what is breadcrumbing?
I've got to look this up. Andthen it interested me, because I
have a friend who does this. SoI was like, Oh, wow, now that I
know what that is, I knowsomebody who does that.
Stasha Boyd (05:42):
Okay, so describe it for our listeners who also
might not be aware of whatbreadcrumbing is. And it
happened to you in a friendrelationship. So go ahead.
Cheryl Stuller (05:50):
It's, it's dropping small morsels of
interest, um, through texting,calling, social media, and then
not following through. Whetherthat person is not available to
follow through, whether thatperson is lonely, it could be
that you've ended a relationshipand this is a way for them to
(06:11):
keep in touch with you, it'sbasically reaching out, and
either complimenting you orsaying how's your Saturday
going, or I saw this memory popup in my social media, I'm
thinking about you and missingyou. And yet, it's not going to
go anywhere. And it just kind ofpiques your interest and gets
(06:35):
you back involved with thememotionally or just thinking
about them. And it kind ofcreates a situation where you
can't move on, you know. Maybenot, can't is a strong word, but
it brings you back into thatrelationship that you had or
that you want to have and thatis not happening.
Stasha Boyd (06:55):
So, so help me understand a little bit because
to me, it just sort of soundslike, you know, cuz I'll do that
sometimes if I'm, if I'm like onFacebook or something, and
somebody will scroll by and I'llthink Oh my god, I'm thinking
about them. Let me just sendthem a little note right now.
Hey, I've been thinking aboutyou. So great to see your face
pop up. You know, it reminded meof something.
Cheryl Stuller (07:14):
That's different. This is, this
behavior is habitual. This issomebody who's doing this over
and over and over again, it'snot the occasional somebody on
Facebook, and you want to checkin with them. That's not, it's
not that. It's somebody who's inyour life. That either you want
(07:35):
to have more of a relationshipwith them, whatever that looks
like. It could be, it could besiblings, it could be a
coworker, it could be anintimate partner, it could be
any one of those, a friendship.
You want to go further in therelationship, perhaps see them
more often, spend more time withthem. And you, you know, they
they keep pushing you away. Theydon't follow through, but they
(07:59):
keep reaching out. That's thedifference.
Stasha Boyd (08:04):
Okay. Okay. Well, so I think, I think for me, it's
like, if I start getting andmaybe it is because and we'll
talk about this also kind of aswe keep going through. So many
of the things we'll be talkingabout today. It's just asshole
behavior. And I think I saidthis before with our with one of
(08:24):
our other previous discussionswas how it's like, if you learn
to recognize bullshit, when yousee it, when you start seeing it
when you start seeing that kindof bad behavior. And you call it
out immediately. And it eithergets better or it doesn't. But
it either corrects itself by oreither it gets corrected by
being called out. Or if it keepson going, then you get to make a
(08:44):
choice. You're like, Okay, I'mnot putting up with this shit.
So they can text all they wantto, you don't respond, whatever
it is. So, I always wondersometimes when it's like it
keeps going on and keeps goingon, it keeps going on. Well, why
the hell does it keep going on?
Why are why is the person on thereceiving end of this, still
doing it? Still engaging?
Cheryl Stuller (09:05):
And that could be because you're lonely, you
know, or, or you are missingthat relationship, or you want
to be in that person's life, andyou're taking those little
morsels that they're giving youand not speaking up for
yourself. So hopefully, in thebig picture, when we talk about
all of this that we're going totalk about today, hopefully in
(09:27):
the big picture, this is allthat they are doing. But
listeners need to know that alot of times these type of small
red flag behaviors that you maynot know what they are, but it
doesn't quite feel right,usually and can lead into bigger
emotional problems in therelationship later on or even
(09:49):
abuse, physical abuse, moresevere emotional abuse. So it's
that kind of bullshit radar thatyou're talking about that you
want to see early on with thesetiny Red Flags. That you want to
nip in the bud.
Stasha Boyd (10:03):
Yeah. And I think that's me, it's like, you know,
the the whole idea of having a,knowing what a problem is and
being able to name it andidentify it and define it. It's
not enough to be able to dothat. It's like, oh my gosh,
she's like, this isbreadcrumbing they're doing I'm
being breadcrumbed. It's like,okay, no you've just defined the
problem, you now havearticulated the problem. Now you
do something about it. And thebest thing to do is to do it
(10:26):
earlier and earlier and earlier.
Cheryl Stuller (10:29):
Exactly. And be willing and be willing to, you
know, our very first episode wasassertiveness. Go back to that
episode, go back to that trainof thought where you are
asserting yourself. And, youknow, part of this is knowing
yourself enough to know, why amI letting this person do this to
me? Am I lonely? Am I not ableto move on? Am I okay, with
(10:53):
being somebody's backup plan?
Which is also why somebody canbreadcrumb you. And if you're
okay, with just an occasionalhookup with this person, then
define that, and that's okay.
But if you're not okay withthat, then you need to be
willing to confront it, anddecide if this relationship is
going to be a good one for you.
And usually, I would say no.
Stasha Boyd (11:15):
And I think that's the thing about the
assertiveness idea is like inour first episode, I mean, we
gave a lot of examples of like,our brand of, you know,
assertiveness, but on a, on aday to day level, it really
comes down to being willing andable to have an uncomfortable
conversation. It's like, if thisstarts happening to you, you
send a text back and you'relike, Okay, I've noticed this
(11:36):
happening. I was looking backover our texts. And you know,
you've asked, you said, you wantto get together on our last 10
texts, and this has nothappened. Just so you know, can
you can you explain this, oh,I've been busy, blah, blah,
blah, okay, well, then let's gettogether on this date or this
date. And if it doesn't happen,then you get to say, Okay, I am
not going to respond anymore. Oryou can say, that's nice. Or
(11:59):
however you want to choose todeal with it. You get to deal
with it on your own terms. Notconstantly emotionally putting
yourself in the Oh well if theywould just not do this to me. Oh
my gosh, why can't they? Whywon't they get together with me?
Why won't they? Why won't they,you, you will die in your grave
before you ever figure out whythey keep doing horrible things
(12:20):
to you. You're never gonna know.
Cheryl Stuller (12:23):
Right? Um, and it's also it could also be that
they don't ever have anyintention of getting together
with you or never asked to gettogether with you. It could be
this little emotional high theyget by reaching out with these
small little nuggets, like, Hey,I'm remembering that dress you
(12:44):
wore blah, blah, blah. And Ireally liked that. And if you're
responding, they get anemotional high out of that. And,
and they could that's anotherform of breadcrumbing that can
happen to you. And again, decideif that's something you want to
be a part of?
Stasha Boyd (13:02):
Well, because that's the other thing, that
might be fine with you. Youknow, tere's some people where
it's like, yeah, man, it's likethey remember this. Oh, man,
that was great. Glad you had agreat memory. I have people that
I know that I've liked that, youknow, I don't communicate with
very often. But if they saysomething like that, I'm like,
oh, man, that's great. And evenif I knew that, they were just
getting that little kick out ofit of getting my response back.
(13:23):
Sure, no problem. I don't.
Without malice, if I didn'tthink they were doing it with
malice, or with bad intent, it'sjust what they did. And I did
genuinely like the person, Iprobably would be okay. But
again, that's me. I'm not a I'mnot an emotionally needy person.
I'm not a jealous person. I'mnot a lonely person. I'm not.
(13:44):
You know, there's a lot ofthings- I'm pretty self aware. I
also know for a fact that thesecond I get tired of it, that
person will be gone. So I don'thave that kind of, that type of,
I don't want to say instability,because that's not the word I'm
looking for. Confusion, I don'thave that kind of confusion
about what will happen if itkeeps going. And I don't want it
(14:05):
to.
Cheryl Stuller (14:07):
Well, and another reason somebody might be
doing that is because they areeither married or in another
relationship. And they get thatlittle bit of thrill, you know,
reaching out to you, and don'tthink anything of it as far as
it being a damaging thing. But,you know, oftentimes it can be.
Stasha Boyd (14:27):
Yeah, it can, it can be and again, to each their
own, it's like, don't be, likeyou were saying a minute ago,
don't be somebody else's, youknow, second choice, bad thought
or whatever. But if you're ifyou're just... recognize the
difference between somebodydamaging you, and you damaging
(14:49):
yourself. I think that's kind ofif somebody is doing something
like this to you, and you wantit to stop but you're not
stopping it. You're damagingyourself.
Cheryl Stuller (14:59):
Mm hmm. Exactly.
Stasha Boyd (15:00):
Yes, if somebody is doing it, and you can't, and you
have no way to stop it, or youdon't know how, then that's a
whole different level ofproblem. You know, that's a
whole different thing that'sgetting into, like you said that
escalating behavior. Um, butyeah, I think that for me for
breadcrumbing. It's like ifsomebody, if you're not getting
out of that relationship, thatfriendship, what you want to be
(15:22):
getting, you call it out once.
You say, Hey, here's what I'mlooking for. And this is what's
happening. Is there anexplanation? You give them one
more chance, if it happensagain, then the last one, you
say, this isn't working for me.
Have a nice life.
Cheryl Stuller (15:36):
Right. Thank you and next.
Stasha Boyd (15:38):
Thank you and next, yeah. Which kind of brings us to
the one that I've always foundso weird. Um, this is one that
I'd heard about. And I firstheard about it, it was from the
pickup artist community. And ifyou've not heard of these guys,
these are people, these are,these are men. Sad, lonely,
pathetic, maladjusted, miserablesons of bitches. And they came
(16:00):
up with this idea of negging.
But essentially, what they woulddo is they go up to a woman in a
bar, and in order to get her tolike them more, they say
something negative, which putsthat person, that woman, in the
position of either having todefend herself or her choice,
and then it kind of binds her tothem in a conversation. So for
(16:21):
example, a negging would be Wow,it's like, look at that, you
look great in this outfit. It'sweird that you picked that
purse, though. You know,something along those lines. So
I think, and again it's just aweird thing. And I don't
understand why it works. But youread up on it, what'd you find
out?
Cheryl Stuller (16:41):
Just like you said. Backhanded compliments.
You look great now that you'velost weight.
Stasha Boyd (16:50):
Yeah, that's a tough one, though. Because a lot
of people do that stupid thingwith the, with the best of
intentions, and it's juststupid. Folks can we just accept
as a general rule? Unlesssomebody is begging you for your
opinion on their weightspecifically, keep your mouth
shut about people's weight.
Cheryl Stuller (17:05):
Well, I've, I have people on social media that
is posting their weight lossjourney. And I'm very careful to
say, um, because you know that'ssomething that they chose that
they wanted to do and, and theyare really proud of themselves.
So I'm, I'm very careful to sayI'm really proud of your hard
(17:27):
work. And I'm not reallycommenting, because I thought
that person was beautiful asthey were. But if they're on
this weight loss journey, andthey want to do that, I know how
hard that is to stay committedto that. That's the impressive
part to me. You're alwaysbeautiful to me. Um, it's
impressive that you're able tostick with it.
Stasha Boyd (17:49):
For everybody listening. Cheryl would be good
with, you know, if she's postingthings about her weight or
whatever, she would be okay withyou like saying,
congratulations, Cheryl. I,unless I am, you and I are
sitting at a table. And I havetold you, and I'm stone cold
sober. And I've told you 15different times swearing on a
stack of Bibles. It's okay totalk about what I weigh, or how
(18:10):
I look. Don't. Don't.
Cheryl Stuller (18:14):
But you're also the person that's not going to
post your weight loss journey.
Correct?
Stasha Boyd (18:18):
Um, I have before I have before, and like you said,
it's like that whole idea ofachieving something always felt
good.
Cheryl Stuller (18:28):
But you don't want people, you would not want
anybody commenting. If you wereposting on social media about
that. You would not want anybodycommenting on it.
Stasha Boyd (18:39):
Noo. No, no.
Cheryl Stuller (18:40):
I would say don't post it on social media.
Stasha Boyd (18:43):
Well, yeah. But here's the thing. Like I said,
there's two different things.
The reason I wouldn't do it, whywouldn't comment is because I
also know that there are peoplewho post these things on social
media, because they're just sopainfully desperate for any type
of approval. And they know this,like they've worked up in their
mind that if they lose thisweight, they're going to have
more love, people are going toenjoy whatever's going to
happen. They have this wholemash of good things in their
(19:04):
head. That will occur if onlyand so the losing weight on the
scale, that number becomes proofpositive that they're doing some
good. So I know a lot morewomen, especially women, most
mostly women, whose internalhorror stories of weight loss
are not what are not the Hey,I've lost 10 pounds. It's not,
(19:27):
it's nightmarish. And so for forme, I will stay away from that
completely. Like you said, youknow, if they're posting
something on a weight loss, Hey,I'm down 20 pounds. And like you
said, it's like, you know, manI'm proud. You set a goal, you
achieved it. Awesome. I'm alwayshappy for anybody that achieves
a goal. But it will never beabout their weight. It will
(19:49):
never be about their look, butwe're also getting way off topic
because we're on negging, we gotto stay on topic, Cheryl.
Cheryl Stuller (19:57):
Well, that's a bigger, that's a that's a good
conversation to have like, whatis appropriate about that? You
know?
Stasha Boyd (20:03):
Yeah, but negging it is like, it is like a left
handed compliment. Um, itactually is funny actually, I
think I posted something onFacebook the other day. This was
a couple of years ago, we'rehaving dinner with with Mama,
and Dad and whatever. And Idon't know what prompted it. But
Mama said, you know, Wow, yourhair looks, your hair looks
really good today. And I kind ofwent... How, you know, as
(20:29):
opposed to when, and she waslike, every other day. I'm like,
here's the thing, my mother wasnot negging. She just has a way
with words. She just has a waywith compliments. But it is that
kind of thing where somebodywill say something that kind of
has you baffled, and Well,that's a weird way to say that.
What were some of the otherexamples that were in that
(20:51):
article?
Cheryl Stuller (20:52):
Here's one. Your sister got a promotion at work?
Maybe you'll find a fulfillingjob as well.
Stasha Boyd (21:00):
Oh, I remember one that we saw that was on the
list. Oh, that was a greatreport that you turned in, who
helped you with it?
Cheryl Stuller (21:07):
Yeah. It's kind of a backhanded compliment
stuff. My mom, my mom has done,you know, similar things. I
don't think she means anythingby it. And I don't address it, I
take it for what it is. And thenI move on.
Stasha Boyd (21:24):
Right. And I think that the thing too. For some of
these things, you have toconsider the source, and the
relationship, you know, what isthat relationship? I have, I
know some people it's like thatis, in a way, that's kind of
their affection, they kind ofdoggin on their friends. I don't
care for it. I don't do it toother people. But I do know that
some people that is how they,how they talk and act, and they
(21:45):
truly don't mean anything by it.
But the ones who do, I thinklike you said, it goes back to
that feeling. You have thefeeling when somebody says
something like that to you thatyou're like, wait, what? I'm
sorry, what? Or it in some waymakes you feel bad about
yourself. So, like the person,the friend of ours, that they're
doggin on their friends all thetime, you laugh it off, because
you know it's not true and youknow they don't mean it that
(22:07):
way. But if somebody is sayingsomething, and it does make you
doubt yourself, or it does makeyou feel bad, then again, that's
that red flag is that yourinside feeling like okay, this
person has done this again. Theysaid this rude thing again. And
going back to the step process,first thing you do you call him
out on it. Like, okay, I don't,here's what you just said, is
(22:30):
that what you meant to say?
Second, I don't appreciate that.
Don't do that again, especiallyif it's a coworker or a person
you're dating. I don't like it.
Don't do it again. And then ifthey do it again, then you have
to make a different choice,because they're not going to
change.
Cheryl Stuller (22:49):
Yeah, and if they minimize it, if you come to
them and do what you just saidand they minimize it, or they
always go Oh, well, I was justjoking. You know, they are not
taking that on as something thatthey actually heard you say, and
they don't really care about theeffect that it had on you.
Again, thank you and next.
Stasha Boyd (23:10):
Right, because they don't respect you, that you know
your mind. Whether or not theyagree with it bothering you,
like, it's not like the thingabout like, the weight thing for
me. I don't care if the weightdoesn't bother you. I don't care
if talking about weight orweight loss doesn't bother you.
If I tell you, it bothers me,then don't do that to me. And if
(23:31):
you do that to me, then me andyou ain't gonna be seeing a lot
of each other. That, to me, iskind of the main thing. But
negging is, I think a lot ofthese little talk that we will
talk about is you do have tokind of get to where you're
pretty quickly able to identifya feeling. And going back to the
(23:51):
whole, like whole life skillthing to learn. Learn how to
identify your feelings,acknowledge what they are, and
then take an action based uponwhat it's telling you. Don't sit
there and wallow in it. If thisperson made you as you suddenly
you find yourself feeling bad.
And you realize it's becausethis person just insulted you in
some weird way. Then don't keepfeeling that.
Cheryl Stuller (24:12):
And don't take that on as your truth. That says
more about them than anythingabout you.
Stasha Boyd (24:19):
Yeah, yeah, you felt bad and that was so but you
don't have to feel bad foranother second because that
person was an asshole. You neverhave to feel bad for an asshole.
You never do. And as soon as yourecognize it, and you recognize
where the source of it, is,think of it like putting your
hand near that hot stove. Assoon as you recognize that
burner is on, move your hand.
Cheryl Stuller (24:41):
It can be a gut feeling. And we as women have
that intuition. We have that gutfeeling that sometimes we push
down. And if it's happening in asetting where there's other
people, and we just grin andbear it, you know, because
there's other people there. Iwouldn't even do that. I
wouldn't even give that personthat kind of pause then. You
(25:03):
know, I would I would be like,did you just really say that,
that way to me? Because you knowhow that makes me feel. Don't
do that again.
Stasha Boyd (25:11):
And I, and that's the thing. It's like, there's
you don't have to stand up andwave a flag, but you can
certainly shine a spotlight.
Like, did you really just saythat because that was weird.
That's a weird thing to say tosomebody. And they've just been
put on notice. It's not a fight,you're not like planting a flag
in the ground, but you areletting the person know that I
saw what you just did. And notgonna do that anymore. And if it
(25:34):
is a closer friend, or somebody,a closer person to you, whether
it's from a relationshipstandpoint, or from, um, here's
one of the things that happenssometimes to people. It's the
spouse of a friend, that friendis married to a jerk. And that
jerk happens to like, you know,will take their jerkiness out on
other people in the vicinity.
(25:55):
And when it's happened to melike that? I just like, let the
person know, No, we're not doingthat.
Cheryl Stuller (26:02):
Or they do it to their spouse in front of you.
And then you need to pull thatperson aside and say, you know,
gosh, I really didn't like howhe just said that to you or how
they treated you. Are you okaywith that?
Stasha Boyd (26:15):
Yeah. Yeah. And it's weird, because I think you
and I have two differentapproaches to this one, I still
call out the person in a way.
Because for because again, thishappened to us, we had a friend
and they weren't the couplewasn't married, but they had
been dating for a while. And hewould just be so rude to her. We
would be out at like our localwine bar or something. And
everybody's sitting aroundtalking. And he'd make some
snotty comment either about whatshe was eating, what she was
(26:37):
drinking, how she was sitting,what she was wearing. And it was
just, it was just maddening. Andyou know, so whenever he would
do that, I'd be like, I don'tknow what you're talking about.
This is weird. Okay, she's, whyaren't, why are you? Why are we
even having this conversationbecause that's a weird thing to
say. And he did not like me, andI did not like him. And when
(26:58):
they finally broke up, and shestarted dating a guy who did
treat her with some respect anddignity. Everybody was so happy.
I still see this guy every nowand then wandering around
Publix, and he's, you know, he'sstill his sloppy old self, and
still single. Single slobbyself. He's not dating my friend
anymore. So good.
Cheryl Stuller (27:19):
Good. Good, good, good.
Stasha Boyd (27:21):
Okay, here's another one. This is like bad
behavior. And I just I don'tunderstand this one. Ghosting?
Where somebody just stopsresponding.
Cheryl Stuller (27:31):
Mm hmm. Usually, it's like, well, I shouldn't say
usually, but the times that Ihave seen it happen, it hasn't
been an establishedrelationship. It's more like a
new relationship, you know, oryou're brought together for a
circumstance. And when thatcircumstance goes away, you
don't have any dealings withthem anymore. But oftentimes, it
(27:53):
happens with a one night standthat you didn't think would be a
one night stand. And they sleepwith you, and then you never
hear from them again.
Stasha Boyd (28:03):
The ones that I've seen when I was talking with my
friends about it, these arefolks that they have been dating
for a while.
Cheryl Stuller (28:09):
Really?
Stasha Boyd (28:09):
Yeah, they've been they've had one person who I was
talking to, and she had beendating a guy for like, six
months, seeing him regularly,like once or twice a week. And
then one day, he just stoppedresponding. He unfriended her on
Facebook, he didn't answer onTwitter. I mean, he just poofed
out of her life, like, justgone. And then she would still
(28:33):
see him on other people'sFacebook things. And she'd send
a note and like hey. And again,that's one of those things where
I'm like, Why are you doingthat? Why are you sending this
asshole a note? Hey, do youremember me? He's not brain
damaged. He's just an ass. It'slike, yes, of course, he
remembers you. Is he going toadmit he remembers you? No.
Cheryl Stuller (28:55):
Because you want closure. You want an answer as
to why somebody would do that. Ihaven't had, I haven't seen that
with anybody that's been in thatlong term of a relationship. Oh,
my God. So, what we're talkingabout ghosting is disappearing
from somebody's life without anyacknowledgement that you've had
this relationship with them,whether it be one night or six
(29:17):
months.
Stasha Boyd (29:18):
Yeah. And it's an absence of all communication.
They don't contact you. Theydon't respond to your outreach
to them. They don't respond tophone calls. They don't respond
to text, they don't respond toemail. It is just silence like
they were never there. And thatagain, to me, the reason why
again, so many people want toknow the reason why and it's
(29:39):
like, Okay, here's the reasonwhy. They're an asshole. That's
the only reason you need. It'slike, well, maybe they were
damaged. Or maybe I did thiswell, maybe maybe maybe, it's
like no. You don't need, thereis no deep thought you need to
go down on this thing. If you,to me if I send somebody a text
and they don't respond, youknow, within a reasonable amount
(30:01):
of time, now again I haven'tbeen dating anybody. But if that
happened to me, it would be liketwo or three extra texts. And
then it'd be like, Oh, I don'tthink so. Yeah, no, no, that
would not be. I might even Imight look to see if they had
actually, and especially I wasseeing them pop up on other
people's feeds or something.
Hell no. No.
Cheryl Stuller (30:21):
Yeah. And usually it's a conflict
avoidance, you know, peopledon't want to have that
ownership of their behavior, andthey don't want to have to talk
about an honest feeling thatthey have, they don't want to
deal with it. They don't want todeal with how you're going to
react to it. They don't want to,you know, it's conflict
(30:42):
avoidance. And I, there are alot of people who do that. And I
don't I don't understand that Ireally don't I, I cannot
understand why you wouldn'tvalue somebody enough that you
would want them to know thatthings have changed, or that
there's a problem, can we workit out? Or whatever it is, I
(31:03):
don't understand that. You haveoften said that communication is
a skill and a lot of peopledon't have it.
Stasha Boyd (31:11):
Right. And with this one, it's not their ability
to communicate. It's theirwillingness, so we can add to
asshole, coward. Asshole,coward. Again, we don't we
don't. You and I've often saidon this, that we're not actually
psychologists orpsychotherapists or anything of
that nature. And here's thething, unless you're actually
(31:32):
one of those types of people.
And this is actually a client ofyours that you're working with.
You are under no obligation totry and get to the bottom of why
they're doing this. None. Youdon't need to know. It's like,
well, could it be conflictavoidance? Or could it be that
they had, you know, sufferedsome kind of tragedy? Maybe they
don't have, you know, who givesa shit? All you need to know is
that this person is behavingbadly. Now, if you've had a
(31:54):
conversation with them, and theydon't respond, if they if you
have tried to put something outthere and they don't. And you're
not getting back the basics ofdecency, just the basics. Got
your email, Um, I don't want tohave this conversation. Asked
and Answered. What you'vegotten, is you've gotten a
(32:19):
response.
Cheryl Stuller (32:21):
At least that's an honest response versus not
saying anything at all. Youknow, I'd rather that, than for
somebody to not even respond tome at all and not say anything.
Stasha Boyd (32:34):
Right. And I think that's the it's one of the most
callous things that someone cando that has absolutely no, no,
no, no a character, they havevery little character, because
they don't care how you feel.
They're not even enjoyingwatching you suffer, because
they're not there. They justdon't care that you are. And you
(32:54):
know, what more do I need toknow about somebody? What more
do you need to know aboutsomebody that they don't care at
all that you're suffering?
Cheryl Stuller (33:07):
Exactly. If it's having a negative impact on you,
any of these things that we'retalking about? If it's affecting
you negatively, if it'saffecting your well being? Get
yourself out of that situation.
Stasha Boyd (33:22):
Absolutely. Which actually kind of brings us to
the next one, which and Idiscovered this one because I
had not heard of this happening,but when we we're doing the
research on it. This next onecame in right after ghosting,
and it's called submarining.
When someone ghosts, thensuddenly returns and acts like
nothing happened. You've beenghosted, they've disappeared.
(33:42):
They're not responding toanything. And then like, one
month, two months, four or fivemonths later, suddenly they
reappear as if nothing happened,Hey, how you doing? Let's go,
you want to go to the movies,hey, you know, it's like wanna
go grab some dinner, or whateverit is, as if this large gap had
not occurred. And at that point,it's the same situation, because
(34:05):
I think a lot of times, like youwere saying, people who want to
know why are like, Oh, my God,they're back. I can ask them
why. I have this opportunity tofind out why. And then they get
sucked back in to that sameconversation. And they start
thinking they were the crazyone. And it's like, no, if
somebody submarines you, youneed to torpedo that bitch,
because there's no way that ifthey don't address or even
(34:28):
acknowledge what they did, theyhave not changed, and they're
going to do it again.
Cheryl Stuller (34:35):
They will absolutely do it again. And
they're going to have their ownselfish motivation for getting
back in touch with you. I'mlonely now, I know I can reach
out to so and so. And I'llprobably get a response from
them, you know. It has nothingto do with you and everything to
do about where they are and whothey are.
Stasha Boyd (34:56):
And I do want to make sure that there is a
difference in this. So there arepeople who, and again, Facebook
is good for this, that yearsago, we just kind of fell out of
contact with. Now if that personcomes up, this is a whole
different thing. This is like,if that person returns, then
yes, it's up to you to decide ifthey are coming back. You know
what that relationship was? Whatwe're talking about is somebody
(35:19):
who just deliberately ices you.
Cheryl Stuller (35:23):
That's different. Ghosting, in what
we're talking about is differentthan that.
Stasha Boyd (35:29):
And submarining. So then there was another word that
also kind of came up aroundghosting, which I thought was an
important one. And apparentlythis is a new phenomenon Cheryl,
this is a new phenomenon.
Caspering. And I hadn't either,but I found it on like four or
five different sites, and acouple of them were on the
(35:49):
mental health helpline site, butthis one was one rather than
simply ignoring your texts, theCasper will respond to your
texts 12 or more hours later,with a vague but friendly reply.
Instead of not replying to aninvitation to hang out. The
Casper will hint they'reinterested without any intention
of following through. Now,here's the thing. That, to me,
(36:10):
sounds an awful lot likebreadcrumbing.
Cheryl Stuller (36:14):
Yeah, so what's the difference?
Stasha Boyd (36:16):
I think that what it is, is they start doing that
with longer and longerintervals. And this is what the
one site that I looked at says,they're longer, longer
intervals, hoping that you'llget the hint and drop them. So
it's supposedly aghosting-light. They just
respond less and less, they'remore and more vague. So they're
kind of like, fading away.
Cheryl Stuller (36:38):
Oh, they're fading. Okay, gotcha.
Stasha Boyd (36:40):
As opposed to just like ghosting. So what do you
think of that one? What do youthink of that tactic or
strategy?
Cheryl Stuller (36:48):
Why can't we just be emotionally mature and
have a conversation withsomebody? My feelings for you
have changed, or I don't feel aspark or this isn't going the
way I want it to? Or I'm notready for a relationship or
whatever it is, that's going onwith you. Why not just be honest
(37:08):
about that? And, and not do thatto somebody. I think we're
afraid to like you have saidseveral times, I really like
this, we need to be comfortablewith being uncomfortable and
making other peopleuncomfortable. Not that you're
trying to be mean, but you knowthat they're not going to like
what you're gonna say, butyou're saying it in a respectful
and truthful way. Why isn't thatokay?
Stasha Boyd (37:31):
Or at least respectful and honest way, you
know, at least you're trying tolike, you know, have a
conversation. And again, otherpeople don't have, their comfort
is not your number oneresponsibility all the time.
Now, as a friend, as a spouse,as a daughter, I mean, I want
the people around me to becomfortable and happy around me,
I don't bring up uncomfortabletopics or subjects as a rule. I
(37:53):
don't think the world needs tohave my opinion on every damn
thing at any moment of any day.
So I do, try and check myselfwhen I try, when I talk to
people. This is different. Thisis you're noticing something
weird. And again, you're gettingthat emotional feeling for some
reason, you're feeling bad, thisdoesn't feel right. And then you
go to that person and say, Okay,here's what I'm, here's what,
(38:14):
here's what's happened, this,this and this. I'm feeling this
way about it. What, what is yourresponse? And then see what the
response is? Again, like yousaid, if their response is like,
Oh, you're making a big deal outof nothing, it's like, no, it
was a big enough deal for me tocome and talk to you about it.
So it's not a big deal. And it'snot nothing, because here's what
you did. That's the thing.
(38:35):
That's the conversation to have.
And is that person gonna likeany of that part of the
conversation, no. And mostpeople, by the way, just so
you'll be prepared, because I'vedone this a lot. They're gonna
get angry. They're, gonna getreal annoyed. I care. But if I
also care about me, and I careabout what's happening, I can't
let that be the reason that Istopped the conversation. And I
(38:56):
think that's something thatpeople don't understand, is that
when you are bringing upsomething where you're you're
feeling hurt, or you're feelingconfused, the person who's
hurting and confusing you, isnot going to like it. I wouldn't
like it if somebody said that tome. If somebody said, Stasha,
you know, do you realize thelast three times we got together
you said blah, blah, blah. AndI'd be like, No, did I? Are you
(39:17):
sure? Oh, that's not what Imeant. I would absolutely start
explaining and justifying myselfjust like everybody else would,
because I'm human. Nowhopefully, I would like to think
that I could also sit there andstep back a little bit and
evaluate myself. I could alsosay, Okay, let me think about
that. I like to think all ofthose nice things about myself.
(39:40):
And I think I do it fairlyoften. But I also have to admit
that the chances of me being thesame way as anybody else's are
pretty good. So be again, beokay with them getting angry.
And you can either continue therelationship, letting them get
over their anger, or you candecide that that anger is too
much and no, they can just get.
(40:01):
Thank you, and next.
Cheryl Stuller (40:06):
So we're talking about somebody that you're kind
of in a relationship, and they,and let's say you talked two or
three times a week, and then allof a sudden, it's once every two
weeks, and then it's once everythree or four weeks, and then
it's not at all and then, youknow, that's kind of what
caspering is correct?
Stasha Boyd (40:25):
I think so. But that also, to me sounds like an
evolving relationship. Thatsounds like you know, okay,
that's, that's the way somerelationships just evolve and
wind down. I mean, how does howis it with caspering?
Cheryl Stuller (40:40):
If it's a relationship, I would want to
know what's going on with that.
If it's just one of those fringefriendships that we talked about
in the last episode? Then I'mokay with that. I don't need to,
I don't need to know why youdon't want to talk anymore. Um,
but if it's somebody you'reclose to, and suddenly something
has changed, I would want tohave a conversation about that
(41:02):
and know why.
Stasha Boyd (41:05):
Because it's entirely possible that you did
say something to offend them.
Cheryl Stuller (41:09):
Yes, it and it's good to find that out.
Stasha Boyd (41:11):
It's possible that you did something or said
something. Yeah. And they justeither don't know how, or
haven't figured out how to bringit up to you. So you give them
the opportunity. So thiscaspering thing, I guess I'm
kind of on the fence aboutwhether or not that one's a
really bad thing or not. It'slike, I think for me, and
Cheryl, tell me what you thinkabout this one. I think, for me,
(41:31):
I would use the feeling about itas my litmus test. If it stung a
little but, eh okay, then Iwouldn't I wouldn't worry about
it, that's just normal behavior.
But if it's something where it'slike, I'm feeling really stung,
it's like, okay, we had someintense conversations, we did a
lot. We were volunteeringtogether, we were doing all
sorts of stuff. And thensuddenly it changed and I don't
know why. And it hurt, then Iwould open up the conversation,
(41:54):
I would I would kind of let myfeeling on it be my guide.
Cheryl Stuller (41:58):
And it could be an opportunity for personal
growth. You know, if I did dosomething, and I'm not aware of
it, I would want to know, if Icould be a better person.
Stasha Boyd (42:08):
Yes. Couldn't we all my fine friend? I would say
the next couple of them kind oflike kind of come together a
little bit. But one of them iscat, I mean, it's catfishing.
And when I first heard of this,I was like, Wait, they're doing
what? So catfishing is whensomebody pretends to be somebody
(42:29):
else on a dating app or online,to try and get, now extreme
cases of it is somebody willpretend to be wealthy, better
looking, they might say thatthey're 20. And they're actually
50. They might say that theyhave this mega job. And they
basically have a part time job.
And they're living in theirmom's basement or something.
(42:49):
They create a whole fantasy lifeto get somebody to interact with
them. And that one kind of goestwo directions. One direction is
straight up fraud. They'retrying to get your money.
They're trying to get somethingfrom you. That's a that's a
that's an actual fraud case. Theothers, and Cheryl, this blew me
the hell away. They just do itfor fun. It entertains them.
Cheryl Stuller (43:14):
So aren't they going to be found out at some
point? Because obviously, you'regonna want to meet up with that
person.
Stasha Boyd (43:21):
That's when they ghost
Cheryl Stuller (43:23):
Oh, okay.
Stasha Boyd (43:26):
I guess that's when they ghost, but.
Cheryl Stuller (43:28):
They're emotionally invested. But not,
there's not a physical thing atthat point. Correct?
Stasha Boyd (43:35):
Yeah, it's to me, it's almost like this person is
an emotional troll. So the sameway that people will go online
and just troll people on Twitteror troll people on Facebook,
just saying stuff to stir peopleup and just to like, make
people, you know, basically justto be to be a jerk online. This
person's doing it to be anemotional jerk. They're doing it
to just just because they canbecause they can wrap somebody
(43:59):
up like that, and then hurtthem. That's, that's psycho.
That's frickin psycho. So Iwould not want anybody to do if
they if they start to suspectsomebody's catfishing them. You
don't owe that person anything.
That person's a nut.
Cheryl Stuller (44:14):
Mm hmm. Is there, is that a crime? Like,
can you report somebody fordoing, I guess if it leads to
the fraud thing?
Stasha Boyd (44:23):
Yeah, but that kind of emotional abuse? No, no,
there's there's no crime beingcommitted. You know, it's and
again, if they're if they arelike extorting money or
something like that, it's stillit's very hard to prove because
they're saying it's like, hey,wow, they gave me money. It's
like, you just gave me money.
Like these Nigerian princes allover the place. That's kind of
catfishing too. But um, butyeah, I think that was just a
(44:45):
horrible one. Which by the way,is not to be confused with
fishing. So fishing, Cheryl andthis one cracks me up because we
actually I know we know a guyhere in town. When he was
single, he would do this So whathe would do is at late at night
after the bars are getting readyto close and he's been hanging
out with all these ladies andwhatever at the bar, he would
send every single one of themthe same text. Hey, great seeing
(45:08):
you tonight, want me to cometuck you in? All of them, he
would send them all the sametext and see whoever like, you
know, responded first. Ifanybody else responded, he'd be
like Aw man I changed my mind.
I'm just gonna go home, go tobed. You have a good night,
sweetheart. But he was fishing.
And one night all the girlsfound out because the next day
(45:30):
they got together, the samegroup got together for brunch.
And they all, one of them saidsomething about it and someone
else said, I got that same text.
I got-
Cheryl Stuller (45:38):
Oh my gosh.
Stasha Boyd (45:39):
That's, of course this guy is such a charming
dude. They weren't even mad athim. They were just like, oh my
god, I can't believe he didthat.
Cheryl Stuller (45:47):
Ballsy, that is ballsy.
Stasha Boyd (45:51):
Yeah. But is that a is that a? Okay, here's the
question. Is that a bad thing?
Did that person do a bad thingor not?
Cheryl Stuller (46:01):
I think anytime you're not being respectful of
somebody that you are saying,You are important to me, I value
you, I want to be with you. AndI also want to be with you and
you and you. I don't thinkthat's a good thing, no.
Stasha Boyd (46:18):
And, because none of these people thought they
were in an exclusiverelationship with him. You know,
they all thought they were justgonna have like a little fun
night with this person. As longas it's like, you're not lying
to one person for somebody else.
It's like, I'm going, I don'tknow that there's a problem. I'm
like, Well, what don't you gofishing? Don't people go fishing
all the time isn't? Yeah, likereal fishing isn't sitting in
(46:40):
boats with like, you know, wormson hooks. But I just don't. I
think like you said it's thelie. It's like if somebody is
being lied to, in order to makethis happen. If somebody is
being held out as a specialrelationship, and it's not, then
the lie is what makes it aproblem. If it's just you know,
hey, I'm trying to quintuple mychances of getting laid tonight.
(47:03):
Okay. I guess.
Cheryl Stuller (47:08):
And can we say STI?
Stasha Boyd (47:12):
Well, they should be using condoms. Anyway, that's
just, that just go's.
Cheryl Stuller (47:15):
I would hope so.
I would hope so. No, I would notwant to be on the receiving end
of him talking to Michelle,Sarah, and, um, you know,
Bianca, come on.
Stasha Boyd (47:28):
And making it, and making it feel like you're
special. Making sure, kind ofimplying that you're the special
one. Yeah. Cuz it would hurt tofind out that you weren't, I
guess.
Cheryl Stuller (47:43):
You're a tool at that point, you know, tool for
him. If you allow yourself to bethat now, if you, now if it's a
hookup and you say this is ahookup I only, this is all I
want tonight is a hookup. Thenthat's a whole different thing,
that is not fishing.
Stasha Boyd (48:01):
Okay. All right, we're gonna give that one a half
pass, half pass, we're gonna letthe line be, are you lying to
get something? And if you'reusing somebody as a tool, then
you're lying. But otherwise,it's like, okay, all right, as
long as everybody's cool. So thelast one, here's the last one
that's on our list. And thisone, I think is an important
one. Because I had not heardthis term. And when somebody
(48:21):
mentioned it the other day, I'mlike, Oh, I know so many people
who need to hear this one.
Fleabagging. So have you heardof the show Fleabag? Very, very
popular show. It's a Britishshow. But basically, the main
character constantly dates thewrong people. So fleabagging is
a person who constantly andrepeatedly dates people who are
(48:44):
completely unsuitable for them.
They're just either they'rewrong for you. They're either
their personality is wrong,their behavior is wrong. What
they do is doesn't match yourlifestyle, whatever it is. It's
like that, like the people, thewoman who really wants to have
that, you know, close,nurturing, loving type of, you
know, homebody husband, but shekeeps dating, flyboy jocks who
(49:11):
are trying to date 15 people allthe time. You know, going, Oh I
can change them.
Cheryl Stuller (49:18):
Or, you're saying Why do I keep going after
emotionally unavailable men, youknow, that kind of thing?
Stasha Boyd (49:24):
Yes. So do you know anybody who does that? Do you
know anybody who needs to hearthat? Those words, to stop doing
that?
Cheryl Stuller (49:30):
Ah, yeah.
Stasha Boyd (49:36):
One or two, one or two.
Cheryl Stuller (49:38):
One or two.
Yeah, yeah.
Stasha Boyd (49:40):
The challenge with that one, though, is what do you
say? I mean-
Cheryl Stuller (49:47):
So, I've had this conversation and I've said,
You, so it would be good if youexamine why you keep choosing
that type of person. So itreally comes down to you. Why
are you doing that? What is itabout you, your past experience
or something that you're tryingto fill a void from, from your
(50:07):
childhood, what what is it? Whydo you keep choosing this type
of person?
Stasha Boyd (50:11):
And how and how did they respond to that? When you,
when you ask that, how do theyrespond?
Cheryl Stuller (50:16):
Um in a positive way. You know, she says, I don't
know, I don't know why I keepdoing that. I don't know why I
keep doing that.
Stasha Boyd (50:29):
And there's also a distinction that I want to make
real clear here. I'm talkingthat the person knows this, that
the guy is unsuitable. It's notthat I think they're unsuitable.
That's a whole differentconversation. I'm like, why are
you going out with this guy, heis just a jerk. If they really
like him or whatever, that'sfine. That's, that's not my
business. But it's when theyrealize they keep getting hurt
(50:51):
by the same type of person overand over and over again. And
then they go out and findanother one just like them.
That's that's the thing. I thinkit goes back to that, you know,
you have to become emotionallyaware, mentally aware, so that
you can explain your ownbehavior to yourself. You know,
you don't owe me or Cheryl anexplanation, obviously. But, you
(51:11):
know, you need to be able toarticulate it to yourself.
Cheryl Stuller (51:16):
Well, but I hope you're gonna say something if
Well, honey, this is, this is?
Yeah. This person did the samething the last person did.
Stasha Boyd (51:27):
Yeah. Well, I think it becomes, it's, like, where
are they in my little circle offriends. It's like, you know, if
they're just like, you know, thegreat circle, the broad
background kind of thing. Imight not say anything to that
person, unless I hear the samecomplaint four or five times in
a row and then I go like, Didn'tyou just, is this the same guy,
because we're still talkingabout the same thing. But I
don't think that would be an indepth heart to heart, because
(51:48):
that's just too intimate. But ifthis is somebody who's like,
dinner party friend, staying atmy house, definitely, I mean,
this is somebody I'd be like,Okay, why are we here again? Can
you explain to me why we'rehaving this conversation again?
Because I'm not understandingit.
Cheryl Stuller (52:03):
It's hard for me to see you sad or upset. And
yet, here we are again, youknow, let's look at it.
Stasha Boyd (52:10):
Yeah. And I think that's the main thing is like,
because you're not, you're nottrying to get them to, you know,
admit a mistake. And I thinkthat's an important thing to
understand. What you're tryingto get them to do is to see a
pattern of behavior, and thendecide if they don't want that
pattern to keep repeating. Now,if they do, then you have to
decide whether or not you wantto keep listening to the
(52:30):
complaints. Like when I had thatsuper depressing thing happen
back all those years ago, and Iquit dating, and my friend came
over, and she's like, you know,I have been here with you on
this problem over and overagain. I will make appointments
for the therapist for you,myself, I will go with you to
your first visit if you want meto. She's like, but I'm never
(52:51):
having this conversation withyou again. And she said it in
the most direct,straightforward, caring, loving
way. But she was serious. Shewasn't playing around, you know,
cuz I was devastated. I waslike, sitting on my back porch.
You know, I hadn't gottendressed in four or five days, I
was crying constantly over thisawful, unsuitable person
(53:13):
breakup. And, um, and she hadbeen there before she'd seen it
happen before. And she's like,and she's the person that I
really credit with getting me,you know, out of that mental
break, because she came over andsaid, I keep watching this
happen. I've talked to you aboutit. I apparently can't help you.
Nobody can help you. Maybe atherapist will help you. And
(53:34):
they did. Yeah.
Cheryl Stuller (53:35):
And that's that was how she supported you. That
was great.
Stasha Boyd (53:39):
Yeah, that was that was a good friend. That was a
very good friend. Well, that isthe end of our list. Is there
anything else that kind of cameup? What's the thing about this
list that you think is the mostimportant takeaway for our
visitors? Oh, we didn't do ourthing. Why is it so important
thing to talk about? Why? Why dowe think this is an important
topic Cheryl?
Cheryl Stuller (53:55):
I think it's important because these little
seemingly small behaviors thatreally aren't small, if they are
affecting your well being ifthey are affecting your
confidence, if they areaffecting your relationship.
It's it's a time to self reflectand decide, do I still want to
be in this situation with thisperson? Yeah. And if I do, how
(54:18):
am I going to navigate that? AmI going to stand up for myself?
Am I going to say, this is whatyou're doing? You you it's
unacceptable? I'm not movingforward with you if this
continues, or are you just gonnaexit? It depends on what that
situation is. The other side ofthat is, if you allow these
seemingly little things tohappen, oftentimes it leads into
(54:43):
other abusive behavior, whetherit's financial, whether it's
emotional, whether it'sphysical, it usually and I could
say usually a high percentageleads to something else.
Stasha Boyd (54:58):
Yeah. And I would say that for me, the the thing
that's most important about itis that the solution to every
single one of these is in you,they are all in you, because
these people fixing their badbehavior is not going to happen,
they are going to continue doingthis. If they're if they're, you
know, doing it, they're gonnakeep doing it. Assholes are
(55:18):
going to keep assholing. That'sjust what they do. And you don't
need any deeper meaning. Youdon't need to super analyze, you
don't have to sit there and pulland go into your own psyche. Why
do I keep doing this to myself?
You don't have to do any ofthat. All you have to do is say
it stops today. This is my day.
It stops today. One way oranother. And I think that's the
(55:41):
main thing for me that I thinkis important is, especially for
women our age, in their mid 50s,a lot of women are re-entering
the dating world, you know,they're having a confidence
issue already. There are a lotof men out there who are our age
who are out there dating, andthey're single for a reason. You
know, they might, they're,they're not, they're not the I'm
telling you, it's like they'rethey're not the good one that
(56:03):
got away. Most of them. They'resingle for a reason. And so as a
woman who is in our age that'sin whether it's a dating
relationship, or even afriendship, friendships change
as your life changes. You get todecide how you want to handle
things that hurt you or confuseyou. And for me, number one,
learn to have an awkwardconversation.
Cheryl Stuller (56:27):
And be okay with that person being upset with
you, or denying that it'shappening. A lot of times when
stuff like that happens, itaffects your own emotional
confidence. And you and youminimize for yourself. Because
this person is great doing thisor because we have this great
(56:48):
thing together. That littlething, I'm going to let that go.
And that's really an unkindnessto yourself. So have the have
the confidence that if is if itis affecting your well being?
Then you need to own that andtake care of that.
Stasha Boyd (57:07):
Absolutely. So that is that's this show. Our next
show, Cheryl, Cheryl, soexcited. Our next topic because
once again, I'm so proud of us.
I'm so proud, we actually put itinto the notes. Because the next
next one is dropping aroundHalloween.
The topic is fear.
Cheryl Stuller (57:24):
Fear. Fear of what?
Stasha Boyd (57:26):
Well, we have talked about, you know,
Halloween fear is fun, you know,um, but being afraid of general
life, a lot of people kind oflike walk around being afraid of
things. So I'm afraid of this,I'm afraid of that. I'm afraid
of that. Learning how to dealwith fear, real fear and
imaginary fear is an importantpart of life and knowing how to
do it. So I think that's areally important one. And for
(57:48):
me, I believe that a lot of itcomes back to language and the
way you talk to yourself and theway you talk to other people and
the way you narrate your ownlife. So that's what we'll talk
about, fear.
Cheryl Stuller (57:58):
Okay, that will be fun to explore.
Stasha Boyd (58:00):
Yes. All right, everyone. That's our show today
we are so grateful as always asalways that you are joining us
please if you do leave a commentfor us on Facebook or Instagram.
We are we responding to themlike I make sure I responded to
a whole bunch today. Pleaserespond to leave us a note. Also
if you try to leave us, wereally like reviews on Spotify
(58:23):
or iTunes or Apple or whereveryou listen to us on and if you
do and they're not showing up,please send me a note and let us
know and so I can get it fixedbecause I won't know about it if
I don't know I don't know aboutit. I can't fix it.
Cheryl Stuller (58:36):
Alright everybody have a great week. We
enjoy you.
Stasha Boyd (58:39):
We enjoy you, enjoy you, talk to you later. Bye.
Cheryl Stuller (58:42):
Bye.
Hi there, I'm Stasha.
Cheryl Stuller (00:03):
I'm Cheryl.
Stasha Boyd (00:05):
And between us we
Cheryl Stuller (00:05):
have four kids,
Stasha Boyd (00:07):
three businesses,
Cheryl Stuller (00:08):
two husbands and one goal:
Stasha Boyd (00:10):
To get to The Point of the Matter.
Cheryl Stuller (00:11):
These little seemingly small behaviors that
really aren't small, if they areaffecting your well being, if
they are affecting yourconfidence if they are affecting
your relationship, it's, it's atime to self reflect, and
decide, do I still want to be inthis situation with this person?
Stasha Boyd (00:35):
The solution to every single one of these is in
you. They are all in you.
Because these people fixingtheir bad behavior is not going
to happen. They are going tocontinue doing this. If they're,
if they're, you know, doing it,they're gonna keep doing it.
Assholes are gonna keepassholing, that's just what they
do. Cheryl, we're back. It'salmost like we never left.
Cheryl Stuller (01:03):
Can you believe this is our 25th episode?
Stasha Boyd (01:06):
No, I cannot believe that this is our 25th
episode. I was looking at thatand thinking, A: it doesn't seem
like it's been that long. And Iwent through our the Buzzsprout
thing the other day and justlooked at all the titles and all
the things that we've beenchatting on. I'm like, that is,
that is an amazing list oftitles, I think.
Cheryl Stuller (01:25):
I think so.
Yeah, absolutely. I'mprivileged, I'm privileged that
we are still doing this and thatpeople are still listening. So
we appreciate all of that.
Stasha Boyd (01:35):
And people are trying to give us comments. I
heard from one of my friends,she tried to put a comment on
Spotify. And it's not showing upand I can't figure out why not.
So I've sent a note into Spotifyto see, I must have some setting
wrong or something, but to seeif we can, because maybe people
are trying to comment on Spotifyor iTunes or something. And
(01:55):
we're just not seeing that. So,listeners out there. If you try
to comment on something and itdoesn't show up. Please get in
touch with us, Facebook us orInstagram, let us know. Because
we won't know if, you know,people don't tell us.
Cheryl Stuller (02:09):
Absolutely. And it seems like we're back to the
week of no drinking because wedrank much. This continues to be
a theme for us. I don't knowwhat's happening to us over the
weekends.
Stasha Boyd (02:24):
I know what's happening to me. And what's
happening to me is that I amreally enjoying people again.
And and for me, I feel like it'sbecause I've had to make a
decision about the COVIDsituation and whatnot. Um, I
have I am vaccinated. I'm a bigbeliever in vaccines. I know a
lot of people who are not andthey are not vaccinated or
whatnot. But I have had to makethe decision that I have done
(02:47):
the best I can I have protectedmyself the best I can. And and I
can't keep staying away fromplaces and people out of that
concern. So I'm I'm at the pointnow where I'm willing to risk
getting, you know, eithergetting sick or even, you know,
if I catch it and pass it on tosomebody else who's not
vaccinated, that's on them. Ican't worry about it anymore. I
(03:08):
got to have my life back. And sothat's that's what it is for me.
I'm feeling a little bitunleashed.
Cheryl Stuller (03:17):
Okay, well.
Stasha Boyd (03:19):
Yours is not that is what we're saying.
Cheryl Stuller (03:21):
Mine is not that. I just need to rein myself
in.
Stasha Boyd (03:29):
Yeah, and that's the thing. I think that's true
of a lot of things. It's likewhen things are starting to kind
of go, get out of balance. It isa matter of being able to take
yourself in hand and go okay,look, this is, this is nuts. I
think a lot of people sometimesthey don't question and they'll
see the solution is inthemselves. The solution is you
have to make a change. You'vegot to make a decision.
Cheryl Stuller (03:49):
Yeah, absolutely. So I'm drinking
water tonight, I'm being a goodgirl.
Stasha Boyd (03:54):
And I'm drinking grapefruit juice with grapefruit
juice sparkling water in it. Iam however using my little fancy
glass. I found these atGoodwill. So I got little um,
these are what's the tequiladrink? The tequila drink that
you drink with these glasses?
Cheryl Stuller (04:12):
Oh, a margarita?
Stasha Boyd (04:13):
Thank you. Good god, my brain. Margarita. It's a
margarita glass that has like alittle saguaro cactus, green
stand and the big- so I justfound three of them at Goodwill
and I thought they were cute andkitchy. So I just picked them
up.
Cheryl Stuller (04:27):
Alright, what are we talking about today?
Stasha Boyd (04:30):
We are talking about, essentially, in a
nutshell, it's bullshit behaviorin dating. But it really is
about mental manipulation,mental health manipulation and
emotional manipulation ofpeople. A lot of these things
are related to dating. So it'sbeen friends of ours that have
experienced this but it's alsojust related to life and work
(04:50):
etc. and regular friendshiprelationships. So we've taken as
a society to giving them cutesynames. I have, I take a very
hard line on the cutesy names,but we'll talk about that later.
But you'd actually brought upthe the idea and you mentioned
our first our first word, so whydon't you take it away with,
with that one.
Cheryl Stuller (05:10):
Breadcrumbing? I didn't know what that was.
Stasha Boyd (05:13):
How'd you find out about it?
Cheryl Stuller (05:15):
Uh, on an episode of Will and Grace.
Stasha Boyd (05:21):
And you're watching that, you know, with your like
iced tea in hand going, wait,what?
Cheryl Stuller (05:24):
No, I'm watching that with my vodka. And I'm
going, what is breadcrumbing?
I've got to look this up. Andthen it interested me, because I
have a friend who does this. SoI was like, Oh, wow, now that I
know what that is, I knowsomebody who does that.
Stasha Boyd (05:42):
Okay, so describe it for our listeners who also
might not be aware of whatbreadcrumbing is. And it
happened to you in a friendrelationship. So go ahead.
Cheryl Stuller (05:50):
It's, it's dropping small morsels of
interest, um, through texting,calling, social media, and then
not following through. Whetherthat person is not available to
follow through, whether thatperson is lonely, it could be
that you've ended a relationshipand this is a way for them to
(06:11):
keep in touch with you, it'sbasically reaching out, and
either complimenting you orsaying how's your Saturday
going, or I saw this memory popup in my social media, I'm
thinking about you and missingyou. And yet, it's not going to
go anywhere. And it just kind ofpiques your interest and gets
(06:35):
you back involved with thememotionally or just thinking
about them. And it kind ofcreates a situation where you
can't move on, you know. Maybenot, can't is a strong word, but
it brings you back into thatrelationship that you had or
that you want to have and thatis not happening.
Stasha Boyd (06:55):
So, so help me understand a little bit because
to me, it just sort of soundslike, you know, cuz I'll do that
sometimes if I'm, if I'm like onFacebook or something, and
somebody will scroll by and I'llthink Oh my god, I'm thinking
about them. Let me just sendthem a little note right now.
Hey, I've been thinking aboutyou. So great to see your face
pop up. You know, it reminded meof something.
Cheryl Stuller (07:14):
That's different. This is, this
behavior is habitual. This issomebody who's doing this over
and over and over again, it'snot the occasional somebody on
Facebook, and you want to checkin with them. That's not, it's
not that. It's somebody who's inyour life. That either you want
(07:35):
to have more of a relationshipwith them, whatever that looks
like. It could be, it could besiblings, it could be a
coworker, it could be anintimate partner, it could be
any one of those, a friendship.
You want to go further in therelationship, perhaps see them
more often, spend more time withthem. And you, you know, they
they keep pushing you away. Theydon't follow through, but they
(07:59):
keep reaching out. That's thedifference.
Stasha Boyd (08:04):
Okay. Okay. Well, so I think, I think for me, it's
like, if I start getting andmaybe it is because and we'll
talk about this also kind of aswe keep going through. So many
of the things we'll be talkingabout today. It's just asshole
behavior. And I think I saidthis before with our with one of
(08:24):
our other previous discussionswas how it's like, if you learn
to recognize bullshit, when yousee it, when you start seeing it
when you start seeing that kindof bad behavior. And you call it
out immediately. And it eithergets better or it doesn't. But
it either corrects itself by oreither it gets corrected by
being called out. Or if it keepson going, then you get to make a
(08:44):
choice. You're like, Okay, I'mnot putting up with this shit.
So they can text all they wantto, you don't respond, whatever
it is. So, I always wondersometimes when it's like it
keeps going on and keeps goingon, it keeps going on. Well, why
the hell does it keep going on?
Why are why is the person on thereceiving end of this, still
doing it? Still engaging?
Cheryl Stuller (09:05):
And that could be because you're lonely, you
know, or, or you are missingthat relationship, or you want
to be in that person's life, andyou're taking those little
morsels that they're giving youand not speaking up for
yourself. So hopefully, in thebig picture, when we talk about
all of this that we're going totalk about today, hopefully in
(09:27):
the big picture, this is allthat they are doing. But
listeners need to know that alot of times these type of small
red flag behaviors that you maynot know what they are, but it
doesn't quite feel right,usually and can lead into bigger
emotional problems in therelationship later on or even
(09:49):
abuse, physical abuse, moresevere emotional abuse. So it's
that kind of bullshit radar thatyou're talking about that you
want to see early on with thesetiny Red Flags. That you want to
nip in the bud.
Stasha Boyd (10:03):
Yeah. And I think that's me, it's like, you know,
the the whole idea of having a,knowing what a problem is and
being able to name it andidentify it and define it. It's
not enough to be able to dothat. It's like, oh my gosh,
she's like, this isbreadcrumbing they're doing I'm
being breadcrumbed. It's like,okay, no you've just defined the
problem, you now havearticulated the problem. Now you
do something about it. And thebest thing to do is to do it
(10:26):
earlier and earlier and earlier.
Cheryl Stuller (10:29):
Exactly. And be willing and be willing to, you
know, our very first episode wasassertiveness. Go back to that
episode, go back to that trainof thought where you are
asserting yourself. And, youknow, part of this is knowing
yourself enough to know, why amI letting this person do this to
me? Am I lonely? Am I not ableto move on? Am I okay, with
(10:53):
being somebody's backup plan?
Which is also why somebody canbreadcrumb you. And if you're
okay, with just an occasionalhookup with this person, then
define that, and that's okay.
But if you're not okay withthat, then you need to be
willing to confront it, anddecide if this relationship is
going to be a good one for you.
And usually, I would say no.
Stasha Boyd (11:15):
And I think that's the thing about the
assertiveness idea is like inour first episode, I mean, we
gave a lot of examples of like,our brand of, you know,
assertiveness, but on a, on aday to day level, it really
comes down to being willing andable to have an uncomfortable
conversation. It's like, if thisstarts happening to you, you
send a text back and you'relike, Okay, I've noticed this
(11:36):
happening. I was looking backover our texts. And you know,
you've asked, you said, you wantto get together on our last 10
texts, and this has nothappened. Just so you know, can
you can you explain this, oh,I've been busy, blah, blah,
blah, okay, well, then let's gettogether on this date or this
date. And if it doesn't happen,then you get to say, Okay, I am
not going to respond anymore. Oryou can say, that's nice. Or
(11:59):
however you want to choose todeal with it. You get to deal
with it on your own terms. Notconstantly emotionally putting
yourself in the Oh well if theywould just not do this to me. Oh
my gosh, why can't they? Whywon't they get together with me?
Why won't they? Why won't they,you, you will die in your grave
before you ever figure out whythey keep doing horrible things
(12:20):
to you. You're never gonna know.
Cheryl Stuller (12:23):
Right? Um, and it's also it could also be that
they don't ever have anyintention of getting together
with you or never asked to gettogether with you. It could be
this little emotional high theyget by reaching out with these
small little nuggets, like, Hey,I'm remembering that dress you
(12:44):
wore blah, blah, blah. And Ireally liked that. And if you're
responding, they get anemotional high out of that. And,
and they could that's anotherform of breadcrumbing that can
happen to you. And again, decideif that's something you want to
be a part of?
Stasha Boyd (13:02):
Well, because that's the other thing, that
might be fine with you. Youknow, tere's some people where
it's like, yeah, man, it's likethey remember this. Oh, man,
that was great. Glad you had agreat memory. I have people that
I know that I've liked that, youknow, I don't communicate with
very often. But if they saysomething like that, I'm like,
oh, man, that's great. And evenif I knew that, they were just
getting that little kick out ofit of getting my response back.
(13:23):
Sure, no problem. I don't.
Without malice, if I didn'tthink they were doing it with
malice, or with bad intent, it'sjust what they did. And I did
genuinely like the person, Iprobably would be okay. But
again, that's me. I'm not a I'mnot an emotionally needy person.
I'm not a jealous person. I'mnot a lonely person. I'm not.
(13:44):
You know, there's a lot ofthings- I'm pretty self aware. I
also know for a fact that thesecond I get tired of it, that
person will be gone. So I don'thave that kind of, that type of,
I don't want to say instability,because that's not the word I'm
looking for. Confusion, I don'thave that kind of confusion
about what will happen if itkeeps going. And I don't want it
(14:05):
to.
Cheryl Stuller (14:07):
Well, and another reason somebody might be
doing that is because they areeither married or in another
relationship. And they get thatlittle bit of thrill, you know,
reaching out to you, and don'tthink anything of it as far as
it being a damaging thing. But,you know, oftentimes it can be.
Stasha Boyd (14:27):
Yeah, it can, it can be and again, to each their
own, it's like, don't be, likeyou were saying a minute ago,
don't be somebody else's, youknow, second choice, bad thought
or whatever. But if you're ifyou're just... recognize the
difference between somebodydamaging you, and you damaging
(14:49):
yourself. I think that's kind ofif somebody is doing something
like this to you, and you wantit to stop but you're not
stopping it. You're damagingyourself.
Cheryl Stuller (14:59):
Mm hmm. Exactly.
Stasha Boyd (15:00):
Yes, if somebody is doing it, and you can't, and you
have no way to stop it, or youdon't know how, then that's a
whole different level ofproblem. You know, that's a
whole different thing that'sgetting into, like you said that
escalating behavior. Um, butyeah, I think that for me for
breadcrumbing. It's like ifsomebody, if you're not getting
out of that relationship, thatfriendship, what you want to be
(15:22):
getting, you call it out once.
You say, Hey, here's what I'mlooking for. And this is what's
happening. Is there anexplanation? You give them one
more chance, if it happensagain, then the last one, you
say, this isn't working for me.
Have a nice life.
Cheryl Stuller (15:36):
Right. Thank you and next.
Stasha Boyd (15:38):
Thank you and next, yeah. Which kind of brings us to
the one that I've always foundso weird. Um, this is one that
I'd heard about. And I firstheard about it, it was from the
pickup artist community. And ifyou've not heard of these guys,
these are people, these are,these are men. Sad, lonely,
pathetic, maladjusted, miserablesons of bitches. And they came
(16:00):
up with this idea of negging.
But essentially, what they woulddo is they go up to a woman in a
bar, and in order to get her tolike them more, they say
something negative, which putsthat person, that woman, in the
position of either having todefend herself or her choice,
and then it kind of binds her tothem in a conversation. So for
(16:21):
example, a negging would be Wow,it's like, look at that, you
look great in this outfit. It'sweird that you picked that
purse, though. You know,something along those lines. So
I think, and again it's just aweird thing. And I don't
understand why it works. But youread up on it, what'd you find
out?
Cheryl Stuller (16:41):
Just like you said. Backhanded compliments.
You look great now that you'velost weight.
Stasha Boyd (16:50):
Yeah, that's a tough one, though. Because a lot
of people do that stupid thingwith the, with the best of
intentions, and it's juststupid. Folks can we just accept
as a general rule? Unlesssomebody is begging you for your
opinion on their weightspecifically, keep your mouth
shut about people's weight.
Cheryl Stuller (17:05):
Well, I've, I have people on social media that
is posting their weight lossjourney. And I'm very careful to
say, um, because you know that'ssomething that they chose that
they wanted to do and, and theyare really proud of themselves.
So I'm, I'm very careful to sayI'm really proud of your hard
(17:27):
work. And I'm not reallycommenting, because I thought
that person was beautiful asthey were. But if they're on
this weight loss journey, andthey want to do that, I know how
hard that is to stay committedto that. That's the impressive
part to me. You're alwaysbeautiful to me. Um, it's
impressive that you're able tostick with it.
Stasha Boyd (17:49):
For everybody listening. Cheryl would be good
with, you know, if she's postingthings about her weight or
whatever, she would be okay withyou like saying,
congratulations, Cheryl. I,unless I am, you and I are
sitting at a table. And I havetold you, and I'm stone cold
sober. And I've told you 15different times swearing on a
stack of Bibles. It's okay totalk about what I weigh, or how
(18:10):
I look. Don't. Don't.
Cheryl Stuller (18:14):
But you're also the person that's not going to
post your weight loss journey.
Correct?
Stasha Boyd (18:18):
Um, I have before I have before, and like you said,
it's like that whole idea ofachieving something always felt
good.
Cheryl Stuller (18:28):
But you don't want people, you would not want
anybody commenting. If you wereposting on social media about
that. You would not want anybodycommenting on it.
Stasha Boyd (18:39):
Noo. No, no.
Cheryl Stuller (18:40):
I would say don't post it on social media.
Stasha Boyd (18:43):
Well, yeah. But here's the thing. Like I said,
there's two different things.
The reason I wouldn't do it, whywouldn't comment is because I
also know that there are peoplewho post these things on social
media, because they're just sopainfully desperate for any type
of approval. And they know this,like they've worked up in their
mind that if they lose thisweight, they're going to have
more love, people are going toenjoy whatever's going to
happen. They have this wholemash of good things in their
(19:04):
head. That will occur if onlyand so the losing weight on the
scale, that number becomes proofpositive that they're doing some
good. So I know a lot morewomen, especially women, most
mostly women, whose internalhorror stories of weight loss
are not what are not the Hey,I've lost 10 pounds. It's not,
(19:27):
it's nightmarish. And so for forme, I will stay away from that
completely. Like you said, youknow, if they're posting
something on a weight loss, Hey,I'm down 20 pounds. And like you
said, it's like, you know, manI'm proud. You set a goal, you
achieved it. Awesome. I'm alwayshappy for anybody that achieves
a goal. But it will never beabout their weight. It will
(19:49):
never be about their look, butwe're also getting way off topic
because we're on negging, we gotto stay on topic, Cheryl.
Cheryl Stuller (19:57):
Well, that's a bigger, that's a that's a good
conversation to have like, whatis appropriate about that? You
know?
Stasha Boyd (20:03):
Yeah, but negging it is like, it is like a left
handed compliment. Um, itactually is funny actually, I
think I posted something onFacebook the other day. This was
a couple of years ago, we'rehaving dinner with with Mama,
and Dad and whatever. And Idon't know what prompted it. But
Mama said, you know, Wow, yourhair looks, your hair looks
really good today. And I kind ofwent... How, you know, as
(20:29):
opposed to when, and she waslike, every other day. I'm like,
here's the thing, my mother wasnot negging. She just has a way
with words. She just has a waywith compliments. But it is that
kind of thing where somebodywill say something that kind of
has you baffled, and Well,that's a weird way to say that.
What were some of the otherexamples that were in that
(20:51):
article?
Cheryl Stuller (20:52):
Here's one. Your sister got a promotion at work?
Maybe you'll find a fulfillingjob as well.
Stasha Boyd (21:00):
Oh, I remember one that we saw that was on the
list. Oh, that was a greatreport that you turned in, who
helped you with it?
Cheryl Stuller (21:07):
Yeah. It's kind of a backhanded compliment
stuff. My mom, my mom has done,you know, similar things. I
don't think she means anythingby it. And I don't address it, I
take it for what it is. And thenI move on.
Stasha Boyd (21:24):
Right. And I think that the thing too. For some of
these things, you have toconsider the source, and the
relationship, you know, what isthat relationship? I have, I
know some people it's like thatis, in a way, that's kind of
their affection, they kind ofdoggin on their friends. I don't
care for it. I don't do it toother people. But I do know that
some people that is how they,how they talk and act, and they
(21:45):
truly don't mean anything by it.
But the ones who do, I thinklike you said, it goes back to
that feeling. You have thefeeling when somebody says
something like that to you thatyou're like, wait, what? I'm
sorry, what? Or it in some waymakes you feel bad about
yourself. So, like the person,the friend of ours, that they're
doggin on their friends all thetime, you laugh it off, because
you know it's not true and youknow they don't mean it that
(22:07):
way. But if somebody is sayingsomething, and it does make you
doubt yourself, or it does makeyou feel bad, then again, that's
that red flag is that yourinside feeling like okay, this
person has done this again. Theysaid this rude thing again. And
going back to the step process,first thing you do you call him
out on it. Like, okay, I don't,here's what you just said, is
(22:30):
that what you meant to say?
Second, I don't appreciate that.
Don't do that again, especiallyif it's a coworker or a person
you're dating. I don't like it.
Don't do it again. And then ifthey do it again, then you have
to make a different choice,because they're not going to
change.
Cheryl Stuller (22:49):
Yeah, and if they minimize it, if you come to
them and do what you just saidand they minimize it, or they
always go Oh, well, I was justjoking. You know, they are not
taking that on as something thatthey actually heard you say, and
they don't really care about theeffect that it had on you.
Again, thank you and next.
Stasha Boyd (23:10):
Right, because they don't respect you, that you know
your mind. Whether or not theyagree with it bothering you,
like, it's not like the thingabout like, the weight thing for
me. I don't care if the weightdoesn't bother you. I don't care
if talking about weight orweight loss doesn't bother you.
If I tell you, it bothers me,then don't do that to me. And if
(23:31):
you do that to me, then me andyou ain't gonna be seeing a lot
of each other. That, to me, iskind of the main thing. But
negging is, I think a lot ofthese little talk that we will
talk about is you do have tokind of get to where you're
pretty quickly able to identifya feeling. And going back to the
(23:51):
whole, like whole life skillthing to learn. Learn how to
identify your feelings,acknowledge what they are, and
then take an action based uponwhat it's telling you. Don't sit
there and wallow in it. If thisperson made you as you suddenly
you find yourself feeling bad.
And you realize it's becausethis person just insulted you in
some weird way. Then don't keepfeeling that.
Cheryl Stuller (24:12):
And don't take that on as your truth. That says
more about them than anythingabout you.
Stasha Boyd (24:19):
Yeah, yeah, you felt bad and that was so but you
don't have to feel bad foranother second because that
person was an asshole. You neverhave to feel bad for an asshole.
You never do. And as soon as yourecognize it, and you recognize
where the source of it, is,think of it like putting your
hand near that hot stove. Assoon as you recognize that
burner is on, move your hand.
Cheryl Stuller (24:41):
It can be a gut feeling. And we as women have
that intuition. We have that gutfeeling that sometimes we push
down. And if it's happening in asetting where there's other
people, and we just grin andbear it, you know, because
there's other people there. Iwouldn't even do that. I
wouldn't even give that personthat kind of pause then. You
(25:03):
know, I would I would be like,did you just really say that,
that way to me? Because you knowhow that makes me feel. Don't
do that again.
Stasha Boyd (25:11):
And I, and that's the thing. It's like, there's
you don't have to stand up andwave a flag, but you can
certainly shine a spotlight.
Like, did you really just saythat because that was weird.
That's a weird thing to say tosomebody. And they've just been
put on notice. It's not a fight,you're not like planting a flag
in the ground, but you areletting the person know that I
saw what you just did. And notgonna do that anymore. And if it
(25:34):
is a closer friend, or somebody,a closer person to you, whether
it's from a relationshipstandpoint, or from, um, here's
one of the things that happenssometimes to people. It's the
spouse of a friend, that friendis married to a jerk. And that
jerk happens to like, you know,will take their jerkiness out on
other people in the vicinity.
(25:55):
And when it's happened to melike that? I just like, let the
person know, No, we're not doingthat.
Cheryl Stuller (26:02):
Or they do it to their spouse in front of you.
And then you need to pull thatperson aside and say, you know,
gosh, I really didn't like howhe just said that to you or how
they treated you. Are you okaywith that?
Stasha Boyd (26:15):
Yeah. Yeah. And it's weird, because I think you
and I have two differentapproaches to this one, I still
call out the person in a way.
Because for because again, thishappened to us, we had a friend
and they weren't the couplewasn't married, but they had
been dating for a while. And hewould just be so rude to her. We
would be out at like our localwine bar or something. And
everybody's sitting aroundtalking. And he'd make some
snotty comment either about whatshe was eating, what she was
(26:37):
drinking, how she was sitting,what she was wearing. And it was
just, it was just maddening. Andyou know, so whenever he would
do that, I'd be like, I don'tknow what you're talking about.
This is weird. Okay, she's, whyaren't, why are you? Why are we
even having this conversationbecause that's a weird thing to
say. And he did not like me, andI did not like him. And when
(26:58):
they finally broke up, and shestarted dating a guy who did
treat her with some respect anddignity. Everybody was so happy.
I still see this guy every nowand then wandering around
Publix, and he's, you know, he'sstill his sloppy old self, and
still single. Single slobbyself. He's not dating my friend
anymore. So good.
Cheryl Stuller (27:19):
Good. Good, good, good.
Stasha Boyd (27:21):
Okay, here's another one. This is like bad
behavior. And I just I don'tunderstand this one. Ghosting?
Where somebody just stopsresponding.
Cheryl Stuller (27:31):
Mm hmm. Usually, it's like, well, I shouldn't say
usually, but the times that Ihave seen it happen, it hasn't
been an establishedrelationship. It's more like a
new relationship, you know, oryou're brought together for a
circumstance. And when thatcircumstance goes away, you
don't have any dealings withthem anymore. But oftentimes, it
(27:53):
happens with a one night standthat you didn't think would be a
one night stand. And they sleepwith you, and then you never
hear from them again.
Stasha Boyd (28:03):
The ones that I've seen when I was talking with my
friends about it, these arefolks that they have been dating
for a while.
Cheryl Stuller (28:09):
Really?
Stasha Boyd (28:09):
Yeah, they've been they've had one person who I was
talking to, and she had beendating a guy for like, six
months, seeing him regularly,like once or twice a week. And
then one day, he just stoppedresponding. He unfriended her on
Facebook, he didn't answer onTwitter. I mean, he just poofed
out of her life, like, justgone. And then she would still
(28:33):
see him on other people'sFacebook things. And she'd send
a note and like hey. And again,that's one of those things where
I'm like, Why are you doingthat? Why are you sending this
asshole a note? Hey, do youremember me? He's not brain
damaged. He's just an ass. It'slike, yes, of course, he
remembers you. Is he going toadmit he remembers you? No.
Cheryl Stuller (28:55):
Because you want closure. You want an answer as
to why somebody would do that. Ihaven't had, I haven't seen that
with anybody that's been in thatlong term of a relationship. Oh,
my God. So, what we're talkingabout ghosting is disappearing
from somebody's life without anyacknowledgement that you've had
this relationship with them,whether it be one night or six
(29:17):
months.
Stasha Boyd (29:18):
Yeah. And it's an absence of all communication.
They don't contact you. Theydon't respond to your outreach
to them. They don't respond tophone calls. They don't respond
to text, they don't respond toemail. It is just silence like
they were never there. And thatagain, to me, the reason why
again, so many people want toknow the reason why and it's
(29:39):
like, Okay, here's the reasonwhy. They're an asshole. That's
the only reason you need. It'slike, well, maybe they were
damaged. Or maybe I did thiswell, maybe maybe maybe, it's
like no. You don't need, thereis no deep thought you need to
go down on this thing. If you,to me if I send somebody a text
and they don't respond, youknow, within a reasonable amount
(30:01):
of time, now again I haven'tbeen dating anybody. But if that
happened to me, it would be liketwo or three extra texts. And
then it'd be like, Oh, I don'tthink so. Yeah, no, no, that
would not be. I might even Imight look to see if they had
actually, and especially I wasseeing them pop up on other
people's feeds or something.
Hell no. No.
Cheryl Stuller (30:21):
Yeah. And usually it's a conflict
avoidance, you know, peopledon't want to have that
ownership of their behavior, andthey don't want to have to talk
about an honest feeling thatthey have, they don't want to
deal with it. They don't want todeal with how you're going to
react to it. They don't want to,you know, it's conflict
(30:42):
avoidance. And I, there are alot of people who do that. And I
don't I don't understand that Ireally don't I, I cannot
understand why you wouldn'tvalue somebody enough that you
would want them to know thatthings have changed, or that
there's a problem, can we workit out? Or whatever it is, I
(31:03):
don't understand that. You haveoften said that communication is
a skill and a lot of peopledon't have it.
Stasha Boyd (31:11):
Right. And with this one, it's not their ability
to communicate. It's theirwillingness, so we can add to
asshole, coward. Asshole,coward. Again, we don't we
don't. You and I've often saidon this, that we're not actually
psychologists orpsychotherapists or anything of
that nature. And here's thething, unless you're actually
(31:32):
one of those types of people.
And this is actually a client ofyours that you're working with.
You are under no obligation totry and get to the bottom of why
they're doing this. None. Youdon't need to know. It's like,
well, could it be conflictavoidance? Or could it be that
they had, you know, sufferedsome kind of tragedy? Maybe they
don't have, you know, who givesa shit? All you need to know is
that this person is behavingbadly. Now, if you've had a
(31:54):
conversation with them, and theydon't respond, if they if you
have tried to put something outthere and they don't. And you're
not getting back the basics ofdecency, just the basics. Got
your email, Um, I don't want tohave this conversation. Asked
and Answered. What you'vegotten, is you've gotten a
(32:19):
response.
Cheryl Stuller (32:21):
At least that's an honest response versus not
saying anything at all. Youknow, I'd rather that, than for
somebody to not even respond tome at all and not say anything.
Stasha Boyd (32:34):
Right. And I think that's the it's one of the most
callous things that someone cando that has absolutely no, no,
no, no a character, they havevery little character, because
they don't care how you feel.
They're not even enjoyingwatching you suffer, because
they're not there. They justdon't care that you are. And you
(32:54):
know, what more do I need toknow about somebody? What more
do you need to know aboutsomebody that they don't care at
all that you're suffering?
Cheryl Stuller (33:07):
Exactly. If it's having a negative impact on you,
any of these things that we'retalking about? If it's affecting
you negatively, if it'saffecting your well being? Get
yourself out of that situation.
Stasha Boyd (33:22):
Absolutely. Which actually kind of brings us to
the next one, which and Idiscovered this one because I
had not heard of this happening,but when we we're doing the
research on it. This next onecame in right after ghosting,
and it's called submarining.
When someone ghosts, thensuddenly returns and acts like
nothing happened. You've beenghosted, they've disappeared.
(33:42):
They're not responding toanything. And then like, one
month, two months, four or fivemonths later, suddenly they
reappear as if nothing happened,Hey, how you doing? Let's go,
you want to go to the movies,hey, you know, it's like wanna
go grab some dinner, or whateverit is, as if this large gap had
not occurred. And at that point,it's the same situation, because
(34:05):
I think a lot of times, like youwere saying, people who want to
know why are like, Oh, my God,they're back. I can ask them
why. I have this opportunity tofind out why. And then they get
sucked back in to that sameconversation. And they start
thinking they were the crazyone. And it's like, no, if
somebody submarines you, youneed to torpedo that bitch,
because there's no way that ifthey don't address or even
(34:28):
acknowledge what they did, theyhave not changed, and they're
going to do it again.
Cheryl Stuller (34:35):
They will absolutely do it again. And
they're going to have their ownselfish motivation for getting
back in touch with you. I'mlonely now, I know I can reach
out to so and so. And I'llprobably get a response from
them, you know. It has nothingto do with you and everything to
do about where they are and whothey are.
Stasha Boyd (34:56):
And I do want to make sure that there is a
difference in this. So there arepeople who, and again, Facebook
is good for this, that yearsago, we just kind of fell out of
contact with. Now if that personcomes up, this is a whole
different thing. This is like,if that person returns, then
yes, it's up to you to decide ifthey are coming back. You know
what that relationship was? Whatwe're talking about is somebody
(35:19):
who just deliberately ices you.
Cheryl Stuller (35:23):
That's different. Ghosting, in what
we're talking about is differentthan that.
Stasha Boyd (35:29):
And submarining. So then there was another word that
also kind of came up aroundghosting, which I thought was an
important one. And apparentlythis is a new phenomenon Cheryl,
this is a new phenomenon.
Caspering. And I hadn't either,but I found it on like four or
five different sites, and acouple of them were on the
(35:49):
mental health helpline site, butthis one was one rather than
simply ignoring your texts, theCasper will respond to your
texts 12 or more hours later,with a vague but friendly reply.
Instead of not replying to aninvitation to hang out. The
Casper will hint they'reinterested without any intention
of following through. Now,here's the thing. That, to me,
(36:10):
sounds an awful lot likebreadcrumbing.
Cheryl Stuller (36:14):
Yeah, so what's the difference?
Stasha Boyd (36:16):
I think that what it is, is they start doing that
with longer and longerintervals. And this is what the
one site that I looked at says,they're longer, longer
intervals, hoping that you'llget the hint and drop them. So
it's supposedly aghosting-light. They just
respond less and less, they'remore and more vague. So they're
kind of like, fading away.
Cheryl Stuller (36:38):
Oh, they're fading. Okay, gotcha.
Stasha Boyd (36:40):
As opposed to just like ghosting. So what do you
think of that one? What do youthink of that tactic or
strategy?
Cheryl Stuller (36:48):
Why can't we just be emotionally mature and
have a conversation withsomebody? My feelings for you
have changed, or I don't feel aspark or this isn't going the
way I want it to? Or I'm notready for a relationship or
whatever it is, that's going onwith you. Why not just be honest
(37:08):
about that? And, and not do thatto somebody. I think we're
afraid to like you have saidseveral times, I really like
this, we need to be comfortablewith being uncomfortable and
making other peopleuncomfortable. Not that you're
trying to be mean, but you knowthat they're not going to like
what you're gonna say, butyou're saying it in a respectful
and truthful way. Why isn't thatokay?
Stasha Boyd (37:31):
Or at least respectful and honest way, you
know, at least you're trying tolike, you know, have a
conversation. And again, otherpeople don't have, their comfort
is not your number oneresponsibility all the time.
Now, as a friend, as a spouse,as a daughter, I mean, I want
the people around me to becomfortable and happy around me,
I don't bring up uncomfortabletopics or subjects as a rule. I
(37:53):
don't think the world needs tohave my opinion on every damn
thing at any moment of any day.
So I do, try and check myselfwhen I try, when I talk to
people. This is different. Thisis you're noticing something
weird. And again, you're gettingthat emotional feeling for some
reason, you're feeling bad, thisdoesn't feel right. And then you
go to that person and say, Okay,here's what I'm, here's what,
(38:14):
here's what's happened, this,this and this. I'm feeling this
way about it. What, what is yourresponse? And then see what the
response is? Again, like yousaid, if their response is like,
Oh, you're making a big deal outof nothing, it's like, no, it
was a big enough deal for me tocome and talk to you about it.
So it's not a big deal. And it'snot nothing, because here's what
you did. That's the thing.
(38:35):
That's the conversation to have.
And is that person gonna likeany of that part of the
conversation, no. And mostpeople, by the way, just so
you'll be prepared, because I'vedone this a lot. They're gonna
get angry. They're, gonna getreal annoyed. I care. But if I
also care about me, and I careabout what's happening, I can't
let that be the reason that Istopped the conversation. And I
(38:56):
think that's something thatpeople don't understand, is that
when you are bringing upsomething where you're you're
feeling hurt, or you're feelingconfused, the person who's
hurting and confusing you, isnot going to like it. I wouldn't
like it if somebody said that tome. If somebody said, Stasha,
you know, do you realize thelast three times we got together
you said blah, blah, blah. AndI'd be like, No, did I? Are you
(39:17):
sure? Oh, that's not what Imeant. I would absolutely start
explaining and justifying myselfjust like everybody else would,
because I'm human. Nowhopefully, I would like to think
that I could also sit there andstep back a little bit and
evaluate myself. I could alsosay, Okay, let me think about
that. I like to think all ofthose nice things about myself.
(39:40):
And I think I do it fairlyoften. But I also have to admit
that the chances of me being thesame way as anybody else's are
pretty good. So be again, beokay with them getting angry.
And you can either continue therelationship, letting them get
over their anger, or you candecide that that anger is too
much and no, they can just get.
(40:01):
Thank you, and next.
Cheryl Stuller (40:06):
So we're talking about somebody that you're kind
of in a relationship, and they,and let's say you talked two or
three times a week, and then allof a sudden, it's once every two
weeks, and then it's once everythree or four weeks, and then
it's not at all and then, youknow, that's kind of what
caspering is correct?
Stasha Boyd (40:25):
I think so. But that also, to me sounds like an
evolving relationship. Thatsounds like you know, okay,
that's, that's the way somerelationships just evolve and
wind down. I mean, how does howis it with caspering?
Cheryl Stuller (40:40):
If it's a relationship, I would want to
know what's going on with that.
If it's just one of those fringefriendships that we talked about
in the last episode? Then I'mokay with that. I don't need to,
I don't need to know why youdon't want to talk anymore. Um,
but if it's somebody you'reclose to, and suddenly something
has changed, I would want tohave a conversation about that
(41:02):
and know why.
Stasha Boyd (41:05):
Because it's entirely possible that you did
say something to offend them.
Cheryl Stuller (41:09):
Yes, it and it's good to find that out.
Stasha Boyd (41:11):
It's possible that you did something or said
something. Yeah. And they justeither don't know how, or
haven't figured out how to bringit up to you. So you give them
the opportunity. So thiscaspering thing, I guess I'm
kind of on the fence aboutwhether or not that one's a
really bad thing or not. It'slike, I think for me, and
Cheryl, tell me what you thinkabout this one. I think, for me,
(41:31):
I would use the feeling about itas my litmus test. If it stung a
little but, eh okay, then Iwouldn't I wouldn't worry about
it, that's just normal behavior.
But if it's something where it'slike, I'm feeling really stung,
it's like, okay, we had someintense conversations, we did a
lot. We were volunteeringtogether, we were doing all
sorts of stuff. And thensuddenly it changed and I don't
know why. And it hurt, then Iwould open up the conversation,
(41:54):
I would I would kind of let myfeeling on it be my guide.
Cheryl Stuller (41:58):
And it could be an opportunity for personal
growth. You know, if I did dosomething, and I'm not aware of
it, I would want to know, if Icould be a better person.
Stasha Boyd (42:08):
Yes. Couldn't we all my fine friend? I would say
the next couple of them kind oflike kind of come together a
little bit. But one of them iscat, I mean, it's catfishing.
And when I first heard of this,I was like, Wait, they're doing
what? So catfishing is whensomebody pretends to be somebody
(42:29):
else on a dating app or online,to try and get, now extreme
cases of it is somebody willpretend to be wealthy, better
looking, they might say thatthey're 20. And they're actually
50. They might say that theyhave this mega job. And they
basically have a part time job.
And they're living in theirmom's basement or something.
(42:49):
They create a whole fantasy lifeto get somebody to interact with
them. And that one kind of goestwo directions. One direction is
straight up fraud. They'retrying to get your money.
They're trying to get somethingfrom you. That's a that's a
that's an actual fraud case. Theothers, and Cheryl, this blew me
the hell away. They just do itfor fun. It entertains them.
Cheryl Stuller (43:14):
So aren't they going to be found out at some
point? Because obviously, you'regonna want to meet up with that
person.
Stasha Boyd (43:21):
That's when they ghost
Cheryl Stuller (43:23):
Oh, okay.
Stasha Boyd (43:26):
I guess that's when they ghost, but.
Cheryl Stuller (43:28):
They're emotionally invested. But not,
there's not a physical thing atthat point. Correct?
Stasha Boyd (43:35):
Yeah, it's to me, it's almost like this person is
an emotional troll. So the sameway that people will go online
and just troll people on Twitteror troll people on Facebook,
just saying stuff to stir peopleup and just to like, make
people, you know, basically justto be to be a jerk online. This
person's doing it to be anemotional jerk. They're doing it
to just just because they canbecause they can wrap somebody
(43:59):
up like that, and then hurtthem. That's, that's psycho.
That's frickin psycho. So Iwould not want anybody to do if
they if they start to suspectsomebody's catfishing them. You
don't owe that person anything.
That person's a nut.
Cheryl Stuller (44:14):
Mm hmm. Is there, is that a crime? Like,
can you report somebody fordoing, I guess if it leads to
the fraud thing?
Stasha Boyd (44:23):
Yeah, but that kind of emotional abuse? No, no,
there's there's no crime beingcommitted. You know, it's and
again, if they're if they arelike extorting money or
something like that, it's stillit's very hard to prove because
they're saying it's like, hey,wow, they gave me money. It's
like, you just gave me money.
Like these Nigerian princes allover the place. That's kind of
catfishing too. But um, butyeah, I think that was just a
(44:45):
horrible one. Which by the way,is not to be confused with
fishing. So fishing, Cheryl andthis one cracks me up because we
actually I know we know a guyhere in town. When he was
single, he would do this So whathe would do is at late at night
after the bars are getting readyto close and he's been hanging
out with all these ladies andwhatever at the bar, he would
send every single one of themthe same text. Hey, great seeing
(45:08):
you tonight, want me to cometuck you in? All of them, he
would send them all the sametext and see whoever like, you
know, responded first. Ifanybody else responded, he'd be
like Aw man I changed my mind.
I'm just gonna go home, go tobed. You have a good night,
sweetheart. But he was fishing.
And one night all the girlsfound out because the next day
(45:30):
they got together, the samegroup got together for brunch.
And they all, one of them saidsomething about it and someone
else said, I got that same text.
I got-
Cheryl Stuller (45:38):
Oh my gosh.
Stasha Boyd (45:39):
That's, of course this guy is such a charming
dude. They weren't even mad athim. They were just like, oh my
god, I can't believe he didthat.
Cheryl Stuller (45:47):
Ballsy, that is ballsy.
Stasha Boyd (45:51):
Yeah. But is that a is that a? Okay, here's the
question. Is that a bad thing?
Did that person do a bad thingor not?
Cheryl Stuller (46:01):
I think anytime you're not being respectful of
somebody that you are saying,You are important to me, I value
you, I want to be with you. AndI also want to be with you and
you and you. I don't thinkthat's a good thing, no.
Stasha Boyd (46:18):
And, because none of these people thought they
were in an exclusiverelationship with him. You know,
they all thought they were justgonna have like a little fun
night with this person. As longas it's like, you're not lying
to one person for somebody else.
It's like, I'm going, I don'tknow that there's a problem. I'm
like, Well, what don't you gofishing? Don't people go fishing
all the time isn't? Yeah, likereal fishing isn't sitting in
(46:40):
boats with like, you know, wormson hooks. But I just don't. I
think like you said it's thelie. It's like if somebody is
being lied to, in order to makethis happen. If somebody is
being held out as a specialrelationship, and it's not, then
the lie is what makes it aproblem. If it's just you know,
hey, I'm trying to quintuple mychances of getting laid tonight.
(47:03):
Okay. I guess.
Cheryl Stuller (47:08):
And can we say STI?
Stasha Boyd (47:12):
Well, they should be using condoms. Anyway, that's
just, that just go's.
Cheryl Stuller (47:15):
I would hope so.
I would hope so. No, I would notwant to be on the receiving end
of him talking to Michelle,Sarah, and, um, you know,
Bianca, come on.
Stasha Boyd (47:28):
And making it, and making it feel like you're
special. Making sure, kind ofimplying that you're the special
one. Yeah. Cuz it would hurt tofind out that you weren't, I
guess.
Cheryl Stuller (47:43):
You're a tool at that point, you know, tool for
him. If you allow yourself to bethat now, if you, now if it's a
hookup and you say this is ahookup I only, this is all I
want tonight is a hookup. Thenthat's a whole different thing,
that is not fishing.
Stasha Boyd (48:01):
Okay. All right, we're gonna give that one a half
pass, half pass, we're gonna letthe line be, are you lying to
get something? And if you'reusing somebody as a tool, then
you're lying. But otherwise,it's like, okay, all right, as
long as everybody's cool. So thelast one, here's the last one
that's on our list. And thisone, I think is an important
one. Because I had not heardthis term. And when somebody
(48:21):
mentioned it the other day, I'mlike, Oh, I know so many people
who need to hear this one.
Fleabagging. So have you heardof the show Fleabag? Very, very
popular show. It's a Britishshow. But basically, the main
character constantly dates thewrong people. So fleabagging is
a person who constantly andrepeatedly dates people who are
(48:44):
completely unsuitable for them.
They're just either they'rewrong for you. They're either
their personality is wrong,their behavior is wrong. What
they do is doesn't match yourlifestyle, whatever it is. It's
like that, like the people, thewoman who really wants to have
that, you know, close,nurturing, loving type of, you
know, homebody husband, but shekeeps dating, flyboy jocks who
(49:11):
are trying to date 15 people allthe time. You know, going, Oh I
can change them.
Cheryl Stuller (49:18):
Or, you're saying Why do I keep going after
emotionally unavailable men, youknow, that kind of thing?
Stasha Boyd (49:24):
Yes. So do you know anybody who does that? Do you
know anybody who needs to hearthat? Those words, to stop doing
that?
Cheryl Stuller (49:30):
Ah, yeah.
Stasha Boyd (49:36):
One or two, one or two.
Cheryl Stuller (49:38):
One or two.
Yeah, yeah.
Stasha Boyd (49:40):
The challenge with that one, though, is what do you
say? I mean-
Cheryl Stuller (49:47):
So, I've had this conversation and I've said,
You, so it would be good if youexamine why you keep choosing
that type of person. So itreally comes down to you. Why
are you doing that? What is itabout you, your past experience
or something that you're tryingto fill a void from, from your
(50:07):
childhood, what what is it? Whydo you keep choosing this type
of person?
Stasha Boyd (50:11):
And how and how did they respond to that? When you,
when you ask that, how do theyrespond?
Cheryl Stuller (50:16):
Um in a positive way. You know, she says, I don't
know, I don't know why I keepdoing that. I don't know why I
keep doing that.
Stasha Boyd (50:29):
And there's also a distinction that I want to make
real clear here. I'm talkingthat the person knows this, that
the guy is unsuitable. It's notthat I think they're unsuitable.
That's a whole differentconversation. I'm like, why are
you going out with this guy, heis just a jerk. If they really
like him or whatever, that'sfine. That's, that's not my
business. But it's when theyrealize they keep getting hurt
(50:51):
by the same type of person overand over and over again. And
then they go out and findanother one just like them.
That's that's the thing. I thinkit goes back to that, you know,
you have to become emotionallyaware, mentally aware, so that
you can explain your ownbehavior to yourself. You know,
you don't owe me or Cheryl anexplanation, obviously. But, you
(51:11):
know, you need to be able toarticulate it to yourself.
Cheryl Stuller (51:16):
Well, but I hope you're gonna say something if
Well, honey, this is, this is?
Yeah. This person did the samething the last person did.
Stasha Boyd (51:27):
Yeah. Well, I think it becomes, it's, like, where
are they in my little circle offriends. It's like, you know, if
they're just like, you know, thegreat circle, the broad
background kind of thing. Imight not say anything to that
person, unless I hear the samecomplaint four or five times in
a row and then I go like, Didn'tyou just, is this the same guy,
because we're still talkingabout the same thing. But I
don't think that would be an indepth heart to heart, because
(51:48):
that's just too intimate. But ifthis is somebody who's like,
dinner party friend, staying atmy house, definitely, I mean,
this is somebody I'd be like,Okay, why are we here again? Can
you explain to me why we'rehaving this conversation again?
Because I'm not understandingit.
Cheryl Stuller (52:03):
It's hard for me to see you sad or upset. And
yet, here we are again, youknow, let's look at it.
Stasha Boyd (52:10):
Yeah. And I think that's the main thing is like,
because you're not, you're nottrying to get them to, you know,
admit a mistake. And I thinkthat's an important thing to
understand. What you're tryingto get them to do is to see a
pattern of behavior, and thendecide if they don't want that
pattern to keep repeating. Now,if they do, then you have to
decide whether or not you wantto keep listening to the
(52:30):
complaints. Like when I had thatsuper depressing thing happen
back all those years ago, and Iquit dating, and my friend came
over, and she's like, you know,I have been here with you on
this problem over and overagain. I will make appointments
for the therapist for you,myself, I will go with you to
your first visit if you want meto. She's like, but I'm never
(52:51):
having this conversation withyou again. And she said it in
the most direct,straightforward, caring, loving
way. But she was serious. Shewasn't playing around, you know,
cuz I was devastated. I waslike, sitting on my back porch.
You know, I hadn't gottendressed in four or five days, I
was crying constantly over thisawful, unsuitable person
(53:13):
breakup. And, um, and she hadbeen there before she'd seen it
happen before. And she's like,and she's the person that I
really credit with getting me,you know, out of that mental
break, because she came over andsaid, I keep watching this
happen. I've talked to you aboutit. I apparently can't help you.
Nobody can help you. Maybe atherapist will help you. And
(53:34):
they did. Yeah.
Cheryl Stuller (53:35):
And that's that was how she supported you. That
was great.
Stasha Boyd (53:39):
Yeah, that was that was a good friend. That was a
very good friend. Well, that isthe end of our list. Is there
anything else that kind of cameup? What's the thing about this
list that you think is the mostimportant takeaway for our
visitors? Oh, we didn't do ourthing. Why is it so important
thing to talk about? Why? Why dowe think this is an important
topic Cheryl?
Cheryl Stuller (53:55):
I think it's important because these little
seemingly small behaviors thatreally aren't small, if they are
affecting your well being ifthey are affecting your
confidence, if they areaffecting your relationship.
It's it's a time to self reflectand decide, do I still want to
be in this situation with thisperson? Yeah. And if I do, how
(54:18):
am I going to navigate that? AmI going to stand up for myself?
Am I going to say, this is whatyou're doing? You you it's
unacceptable? I'm not movingforward with you if this
continues, or are you just gonnaexit? It depends on what that
situation is. The other side ofthat is, if you allow these
seemingly little things tohappen, oftentimes it leads into
(54:43):
other abusive behavior, whetherit's financial, whether it's
emotional, whether it'sphysical, it usually and I could
say usually a high percentageleads to something else.
Stasha Boyd (54:58):
Yeah. And I would say that for me, the the thing
that's most important about itis that the solution to every
single one of these is in you,they are all in you, because
these people fixing their badbehavior is not going to happen,
they are going to continue doingthis. If they're if they're, you
know, doing it, they're gonnakeep doing it. Assholes are
(55:18):
going to keep assholing. That'sjust what they do. And you don't
need any deeper meaning. Youdon't need to super analyze, you
don't have to sit there and pulland go into your own psyche. Why
do I keep doing this to myself?
You don't have to do any ofthat. All you have to do is say
it stops today. This is my day.
It stops today. One way oranother. And I think that's the
(55:41):
main thing for me that I thinkis important is, especially for
women our age, in their mid 50s,a lot of women are re-entering
the dating world, you know,they're having a confidence
issue already. There are a lotof men out there who are our age
who are out there dating, andthey're single for a reason. You
know, they might, they're,they're not, they're not the I'm
telling you, it's like they'rethey're not the good one that
(56:03):
got away. Most of them. They'resingle for a reason. And so as a
woman who is in our age that'sin whether it's a dating
relationship, or even afriendship, friendships change
as your life changes. You get todecide how you want to handle
things that hurt you or confuseyou. And for me, number one,
learn to have an awkwardconversation.
Cheryl Stuller (56:27):
And be okay with that person being upset with
you, or denying that it'shappening. A lot of times when
stuff like that happens, itaffects your own emotional
confidence. And you and youminimize for yourself. Because
this person is great doing thisor because we have this great
(56:48):
thing together. That littlething, I'm going to let that go.
And that's really an unkindnessto yourself. So have the have
the confidence that if is if itis affecting your well being?
Then you need to own that andtake care of that.
Stasha Boyd (57:07):
Absolutely. So that is that's this show. Our next
show, Cheryl, Cheryl, soexcited. Our next topic because
once again, I'm so proud of us.
I'm so proud, we actually put itinto the notes. Because the next
next one is dropping aroundHalloween.
The topic is fear.
Cheryl Stuller (57:24):
Fear. Fear of what?
Stasha Boyd (57:26):
Well, we have talked about, you know,
Halloween fear is fun, you know,um, but being afraid of general
life, a lot of people kind oflike walk around being afraid of
things. So I'm afraid of this,I'm afraid of that. I'm afraid
of that. Learning how to dealwith fear, real fear and
imaginary fear is an importantpart of life and knowing how to
do it. So I think that's areally important one. And for
(57:48):
me, I believe that a lot of itcomes back to language and the
way you talk to yourself and theway you talk to other people and
the way you narrate your ownlife. So that's what we'll talk
about, fear.
Cheryl Stuller (57:58):
Okay, that will be fun to explore.
Stasha Boyd (58:00):
Yes. All right, everyone. That's our show today
we are so grateful as always asalways that you are joining us
please if you do leave a commentfor us on Facebook or Instagram.
We are we responding to themlike I make sure I responded to
a whole bunch today. Pleaserespond to leave us a note. Also
if you try to leave us, wereally like reviews on Spotify
(58:23):
or iTunes or Apple or whereveryou listen to us on and if you
do and they're not showing up,please send me a note and let us
know and so I can get it fixedbecause I won't know about it if
I don't know I don't know aboutit. I can't fix it.
Cheryl Stuller (58:36):
Alright everybody have a great week. We
enjoy you.
Stasha Boyd (58:39):
We enjoy you, enjoy you, talk to you later. Bye.
Cheryl Stuller (58:42):
Bye.
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