#26 The Power of Purpose with Clifton Alexander

Devin sits down with Clifton Alexander, his longtime friend turned award-winning founder of REACTOR Design. Tune in to this bold new episode as they discuss the pivotal moments that took him from SoCal mountain boy to a mainstay of Kansas City's vibrant creative community. It's packed with powerful takeaways about finding your purpose, why - even in the digital age - relationships still matter, and the unapologetic philosophy that made it all possible.
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Guest website: https://www.reactor.design
MUDWTR: https://www.mudwtr.com/devin

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, what's up everybody.
Welcome to the possibilitymindset podcast.
I'm Devon Henderson, I am yourhost and I believe that
something greater is alwayspossible for you.
I really do believe it.
It's not just a catchphrase,it's something greater is always
possible.
I love that it's true for you.

(00:25):
Clifton, my man.
We're going to introduce himhere in just one second.
We've been friends for a longtime.
So we got a little catch enoughto do.
This is going to be a fun one,man, I'm excited.
It's always fun to have someonefrom your past on the podcast.
It brings this old soul feelingto the new podcast, if that
makes any kind of sense.
Let's start off by thanking oursponsor, egcedra Shani, for

(00:49):
providing us drinks this morning.
You got some drinks Diet Coke.
How's the diet?
I think that's the first timesomeone got a soda diet Coke in
here.
Hi, Sonia.
Yeah, we started recordingwithout you, Sonia.
Sorry, but we're good.
I'm more like a celebrity thesedays because Zach sets up, so I

(01:10):
pop in at the last second I gotimportant things going on.
That's right.
That's right.
So, anyway, that's off.
Cam that Sonia over there.
She's rocking it as usual.
The regular listeners knowSonia, she's kind of becoming
like a character.
They don't see your face, butone day we're going to get you
on here.
We'll get Zach on here too.
Awesome.

(01:32):
So, speaking of etc.
I said etc in pop.
Sonia, she was waiting for it.
Thank you for that.
Also, watch the full experienceon YouTube, Subscribe, like,
share it so we can extend ourimpact and show other people how
to never stop asking thequestion.
What else is possible?
Also, if you're listening onApple iTunes, just give us a

(01:53):
rating.
Give us a five star rating.
Is it presumptuous Don't evenknow if that's the word to ask
for a five star.

Speaker 2 (02:01):
You might think so, but everybody does it.

Speaker 1 (02:03):
Everybody does it.

Speaker 2 (02:05):
I want to be like everybody.
I don't want to be like me.
Everybody does it.
Five star review.

Speaker 1 (02:11):
Leave us a comment.
So anyway, that's it.
Well, one more thing before weintroduce Clifton.
Is I just exciting announcement?
I'm 117 days off coffee, that'samazing.
It's the longest I've gonewithout.
Yeah, yeah, thank you, sonia,you're excited for me too.
So 117 days, I was telling you.

(02:32):
I kind of feel like avegetarian now, in the sense
that to me coffee is like themeat it used to be the meat of
my morning drinks.
Right, it's that rich, boldflavor that's gone.
Now it's more just mushrooms.
Green tea, yeah, and eventhough coffee is technically
comes from a plant, it feelsmore meaty in nature.

Speaker 2 (02:51):
So anyway.

Speaker 1 (02:52):
I just want to let you all know about mudwater.
You've heard me talk about itseveral times.
Go to mudwatercom slash Devon.
That's mud, and then water isWTR because they're artsycom
slash Devon.
You get less the amount ofcaffeine.
You get all kinds of amazingnutrients mushrooms, cacao,
turmeric.
That's going to like boost yourimmunity, help your focus and

(03:15):
not give you that afternooncrash.
So just give it a try, See whatyou think.
Mudwatercom slash Devon.
We will link to that in theshow notes.
And now it is time to introducemy good friend Clifton
Alexander.

Speaker 2 (03:27):
I'm like I'm like actually kind of giddy man.
I'm so excited to have you here.
I love seeing you.
I love seeing you.

Speaker 1 (03:33):
Like just look at his face, look at the orange
glasses.
It's like how can you not behappy?
Are we going to call it aMohawk, or a Mollet.

Speaker 2 (03:41):
What's happening?
It's like that.
Yeah, I don't know what it is.

Speaker 1 (03:43):
I know I'm making a change too.

Speaker 2 (03:46):
I've kind of just gone with more of a flow.
I'm just like you know.
It's gotten big.
That's a great term for it.

Speaker 1 (03:52):
And I don't even know what you call it these days
either.
So what you got going on there,I don't know.
A Mollet flow 80s Bond Jobylook A flow.
I'm going for the PatrickSwayze, you don't know if I'm
going to have quite the body forit.

Speaker 2 (04:01):
But you're getting there, but I love it.
I love it.

Speaker 1 (04:04):
Now I just need to get like the Chip and Dale body
and go for it Right and go allin.

Speaker 2 (04:08):
It might be the Chris .
Farley version of the Chip andDale body, but you know the dad
bod, all right man.

Speaker 1 (04:14):
Okay, so Clifton is a mountain boy Originally from
SoCal, southern California.
Clifton came to the Midwestbecause who wouldn't want to go
from California?

Speaker 2 (04:23):
to the Midwest.

Speaker 1 (04:24):
I mean, that's a no brainer hey he came here to
attend the esteemed Kansas CityArt Institute and so, after
working for several localagencies and creative roles, he
founded I must have foundfounded Reactor Design.
So he has appeared on nationaltelevision, been featured in
countless publications andguided the studio to more than
200 design awards.

Speaker 2 (04:47):
Let me just pause and say wow, that's what I'm glad.
Relations man, that's reallycool.
That's really cool.

Speaker 1 (04:51):
Thanks.
His philosophy that there's nopoint in designing something
unless it's awesome permeatesthe soul of Reactor and helps
the drive to achieve betterresults for clients.
Clifton was honored as a risingstar by KC Business Magazine.
Now you're just a star.

Speaker 2 (05:07):
Right, it was a while ago, yeah.

Speaker 1 (05:11):
So that was by the business magazine and the firm
was named one of the KansasCity's top 25 small businesses
from thinking bigger businessmedia.

Speaker 2 (05:19):
You just like all over the media space man that's
great.

Speaker 1 (05:23):
So, although he prefers the much warmer and more
consistent weather that SoCaloffers I know you're talking
about it it's beautiful heretoday in Kansas City.
It is nice, I will say they'regoing to listen to this later,
but it's like March, early March, and it's like amazing already.
So it's been a weird winner.
Anyway, not that no tangentstoday Devin no tangents.
He and his wife Holly havechosen to remain in Kansas City

(05:45):
because of, not the weather butthe vibrant creative community
and the fact that it's anamazing place to raise their
three awesome kids.
Ladies and gentlemen, pleasewelcome with me Clifton
Alexander.
Thank you, appreciate it,thanks I don't know if we
sometimes we need to add thecheesy applause and their Zach
just for fun so man, great tohave you here.

Speaker 2 (06:06):
It's good to see you.
Yeah, it's great to see you too.
It's good to see you.
We go back.
We go way back.

Speaker 1 (06:12):
Should we share some like origin story or how we?

Speaker 2 (06:14):
Okay, so I was telling you this earlier.
I have a fun memory of you.
Okay, let's have it Wheneveranybody says oh, you know Devin
Henderson, I go.
Oh, I know Devin.
In fact, back in college days wedidn't go to the same college
but we were involved in some ofthe same groups, youth groups or
whatever they're called yeah,I'm sorry, we were on a I don't

(06:37):
know.
We were going to a retreat orsomething on a big van with a
bunch of kids on it, okay, andDevin, over here, even back at
the right pole age of I don'tknow 19 or something, was in the
back of the van doing cardtricks for the kids all the way
down from wherever, hours, hours, card tricks for kids in the
back of the van on the way to asummer treat or whatever.

(06:59):
And so I tell that storybecause I love the fact that
you've been performing forpeople since you were a teenager
I don't even, I don't even knowwhat it started before then
yeah, and that has manifesteditself into your life's work,
your career, maybe a book, allthose sorts of things, and to me
that's a really cool piece ofthe story that I love to tell

(07:20):
people if they ask me if I knowyou and I go.
Oh, I know him.
All the way from back in the dayof doing card tricks in the
back of a van at the age of like19.

Speaker 1 (07:28):
Man, I appreciate that story and it honestly makes
me think of you, because I wasasking you, where did the orange
thing come from?
Cause orange is part of, alwaysbeen part of your brand.
And you just said as a kid Iwas like, was it your favorite
color as a kid?
And you just said you likedbright colors.
So it makes me think I wasdoing this as a kid.
I started when I was 11.
Well, you've always been intoart.
You came to the art institutesgrowing into what you are.

(07:48):
So could you, for you, take usback to where this whole design
art thing started, as a kid even?

Speaker 2 (07:56):
Maybe.
Well, and honestly, I wasn'talways into art, not until
basically high school, and so Iwas a sports kid.
I played baseball and footballand basketball and everything
you could imagine.

Speaker 1 (08:07):
I was a sports kid.

Speaker 2 (08:09):
And there was in my town where I lived, a little
tiny town there just happened tobe this world class art high
school and when I was gettingout of town, I had a wild
California the little I had awild.
It's a little tiny town in themountains in California.

Speaker 1 (08:22):
If you're from I'd, a wild California, you've got a
comic.
Yeah, let us know.
Let us know yeah.

Speaker 2 (08:27):
Or if you know where it is, it's up in the mountains.
A lot of people went to summercamp up there and some other
things like that.

Speaker 1 (08:32):
You grew up in like paradise.

Speaker 2 (08:33):
Basically, it was incredible, incredible, yeah
Mountain biking and rockclimbing and then all the sports
and the other sports, andthat's what I did as a kid.
That's all.
That was my entire identity.
And I had the opportunity to goto the arts high school.
There's there's a whole storybehind that I won't go into, but

(08:54):
I had an opportunity to gothere and at the time I said,
100% no, like I'm not an artist,I'm like I want, I want sport.
They don't have sports there.
I didn't barely have PE.
Okay Right, so why would I goto school there?
I want to play sports, I wantto do this.
And my mom and her infinitesense of wisdom, which parents
tend to have about their kids,she said you have to try this.

(09:15):
You're a, you're a good kid.
I know the sports is a thing,but maybe you're destined to be
an artist.
I was like no way.

Speaker 1 (09:21):
I mean, did she see something like did you draw
pictures?
Yeah, you didn't.
I'm not, but I'm not a drawer.

Speaker 2 (09:26):
I'm not a drawer, but she saw some kind of creative.
I still can't draw to this dayThinking something.
There's something about it thatshe saw.
I think there's also a thoughtprocess of saying you have an
opportunity to go to one of thetop private art high schools in
the entire world and it justhappens to be in our town.
You're able to go there forthis, for this other weird
reason.
But she's like why don't youjust try it one semester If you

(09:50):
hate it and you're just likethere's no way I'll ever go back
there.
I don't have to, you can go tothe public high school.
You're good, no problem, justtry it.

Speaker 1 (09:57):
And does that mean sports would have been like?
I know you said they didn'thave sports, but we could you
still do rec leagues or club oranything, or were you just?
No, I mean, there's nothingbasically now.

Speaker 2 (10:06):
There might have been some.
I don't.
I think that even the recleague in town was not high
school Like.

Speaker 1 (10:12):
I think it kind of just stopped I can't.
Was it hard to let go of, youknow, because sometimes we have
to let go of something to moveto something, was that?
So that would be a hard moment.

Speaker 2 (10:20):
I don't.
Okay, which is reallyinteresting to me, and nobody's
ever asked me that question,because what happened was I went
there actually starting ineighth grade not ninth, but in
eighth grade and I loved it.
I fell in love with it.

Speaker 1 (10:35):
Wow, I got chills for what I know.
I really did.

Speaker 2 (10:37):
I really did I think that's such a creativity.
And you know what?
I don't think I ever missedsports after that.

Speaker 1 (10:42):
And so there's an interesting question.

Speaker 2 (10:44):
Yeah, yeah is that that that was honestly probably
what I was meant to be and to doRight Now.
I still did things likemountain biking and rock
climbing, some of the stuff, theindividual things and I raced
mountain bikes and I did a lotof stuff and I was so active and
all that.
But I didn't miss the teamsports anymore.
It just kind of like faded awaylike so quickly because I think

(11:05):
I was, I was, I found somethingthat was my true passion or
calling.

Speaker 1 (11:11):
I thought sports was it, but it really wasn't.
What did you love about it?
You said you loved it.
What explain that?

Speaker 2 (11:18):
I don't even know if I know the answer to it.
It just felt right to me, andmaybe it was just the fact of
creating every single day orbeing creative in an environment
.
And, like I said earlier, Ican't draw.
I still can draw to this day butI love making things and I love
creating things and thinkingbig thoughts and doing all those
sorts of things, and so that isa huge part of being an

(11:40):
identity in art school is you'rejust there to learn and to
create and build and to dowhatever, and the school that I
was in just was so great aboutallowing me to focus on things
like ceramics and photographyand sculpture and some of the
things that I liked more thandrawing.
I didn't have to do a lot ofdrawing and painting and things
like that.
I was able to focus on some ofthe things that I liked the most

(12:00):
, which are these moredimensional forms of art and I
just absolutely loved it and Ithrived there.
I did really well, ended upgoing there from eighth grade
all the way through senior andhigh school, and I have friends
from literally all over theworld because of it.
It was a boarding school andkids would literally come from
all over the world to study art,music, dance, theater.

(12:24):
It was a very, very specialplace.

Speaker 1 (12:26):
So what did they think when they thought you
didn't have to travel to gethere?
Like I know, I was a day.

Speaker 2 (12:30):
I was a day soon.
Yes, I lived at home.
I was a day student.
There's a small percentage ofthe population that lives at
home and that's from town orwhatever.

Speaker 1 (12:38):
And there wasn't like a stigma on you guys, for like
these guys are from Okay Allright, okay, no stigma.

Speaker 2 (12:42):
Yeah, nice, it was just an awesome experience.

Speaker 1 (12:45):
Well, I think what's awesome about just like letting
your creativity breathe?
You know it's like sometimes wethink a creative person art,
you know, music it's got to besomething specific.
But creativity lends itself toall kinds of things in the world
and then even in the corporateenvironment you know, because my
daughter, my oldest daughter.
I see the creative juice in herand most of my kids.
I told my oldest she's likewhat do you think I should be?

(13:06):
I was like you're going to bein some kind of design.
I don't know what that means,but you're going to design
something.
You know, whether it's ideas,concepts, you know even like in
relationship.
There's like creativity for whoto meet with, how strategic
ways to connect with people.
So I just think it's awesome.
That sounds like that school ismore just like.
Just let your creativitybreathe and you know, the sky is

(13:27):
the limit.

Speaker 2 (13:27):
Yeah, and it's very rigorous.
There's again people pay a lotof money and they come from all
over the world for the school,so it's very rigorous.
But it's also, yeah, it is anart school and it is designed to
get people out of their comfortzone and to think creatively
and to have a different kind ofa mindset.

Speaker 1 (13:43):
Did you guys get a local discount?
I'm fixated on this whole thing, Well.
So how crazy it is that thisschool is right in the wild.

Speaker 2 (13:53):
To this day is one of the most expensive schools in
the entire country for highschool, but I happened to go
there for basically almost free.
My mom worked at the school, orshe got a job at the school.
The first year I got to gothere, though, was really all
about the school.
I was going to closed its doors.
It was like an 80 year oldschool just closed in the middle

(14:14):
of the year, and they said andthis other school said we'll,
we'll accept all the daystudents for this semester, and
then after that you can figureout what you want.
So I had the chance to go there, and then my mom got a job
there, and me and my brotherboth actually graduated from
there too.

Speaker 1 (14:29):
So I'm loving this.
See, these are the questionslike I think if we just got
coffee, I probably wouldn't askthese kinds of questions but I,
but I really.
I'm just like what, the journeyso?
So take me from there Like what, what's then?
So you're in this school youlove, you're finding out what
kind of your potential you have.
Then what?

Speaker 2 (14:44):
So then I I said, okay, well, now it's time to
figure out college.
I knew at that moment that Iwas likely to go to an arts
college as well, because I Ifigured that's what I knew.
That would be good.

Speaker 1 (14:56):
But I didn't want for you.
Yeah, right, it's working forme, right.

Speaker 2 (14:59):
But I knew that I I knew that I didn't want a career
making art like ceramics orphotography.
I felt like that would just bea difficult path, that it would
be hard to make a lot of money,It'd be a grind, it would just
be something that was difficult.
But I liked the idea of designand from a very young age I
think even in my even maybepre-art school days I had loved

(15:23):
the idea of creating logos forcompanies.
Like that was something thatjust that just resonated with me
as this idea of saying can Itake a company and name and
create something that's anidentity for them, and is that a
creative profession?
And absolutely it is a creativeprofession.
And so I applied to somedifferent art schools that also

(15:45):
had design, Design programs, andso that's how I end up here in
Kansas City.
Wow, I was I came back in theday, art schools from all over
the country would travel toother high schools, and so I was
recruited, essentially fromCalifornia to Kansas City Art
Institute.

Speaker 1 (16:02):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (16:02):
And so on my 18th birthday, literally, I got on a
plane.
For like the second time in myentire life.
I got on an airplane and I flewto Kansas City by myself, with
bags full of luggage yeah, myentire life and I'd never been
here before.
I didn't know where I was going.
The school at the time didn'teven have a place for me to stay

(16:23):
and they were just like justget here and we'll figure it out
.
And I was like, okay, and itwas my 18th birthday.
It was the first day I arrivedhere in Kansas City.

Speaker 1 (16:29):
How did that feel?

Speaker 2 (16:30):
It felt so scary you were terrified oh dude so, but
excited, right so, terrified butexcited.
I didn't even know how I wasgoing to get from the airport to
the school.
Oh my goodness, this was pre.
There was no Uber right, yeah.
And so it was just okay.
They were like, maybe there's ashuttle to get you the Marriott
, which is two blocks away, andso I just go go the Marriott,

(16:51):
and then I'm walking down thestreet with all my luggage and I
just show up on campus and I'mlike I'm here and they're like
you know.
So it was just a weird, weird,weird experience.

Speaker 1 (17:01):
So did you stay in the hotel for a while?

Speaker 2 (17:02):
No, they basically the day before I left, they said
we're not sure if we're goingto have a dorm room for you yet,
but just get here, we'll find acouch for you to crash on.
We'll figure it out.
And the day that I got therethe orientation day one of the
dorm rooms opened up and I endedup getting a spot in the dorm
and yeah, so it worked out.
Everything worked out.

(17:23):
But it was just such a weirdpart of my life and experience,
and I hadn't even reallytraveled that much up to that
point.
It was just me in my bag, nocell phones, of course, and all
my luggage, just walking downthe street.

Speaker 1 (17:38):
Imagine no cell phones.
Imagine like.
That's mind blowing Even to menow even though I was lived in
that time, it's like no cellphones.
How do you make that work?
You know, you carry coins touse pay phones and you go in
places.

Speaker 2 (17:51):
Can I use your phone?

Speaker 1 (17:52):
You know they look at you like I guess you know
that's slid across the counterto you.
And you're at the front desk ofa restaurant, calling you know
your mom or your.
So how hard is it to get intothe Kansas City Art Institute?
I mean, what was you?

Speaker 2 (18:06):
know they wanted you.

Speaker 1 (18:06):
They're like get here , we're going to find a way to
make this work.
Clifton, we saw something inwhat your application process
that made us want you.

Speaker 2 (18:14):
I think going to the school I went to helped a lot
because I think they figureanyone from that school is going
to thrive at this school.
So I think that helps a lot.
But they knew I wanted to gointo design.
But they were looking atceramics and photography because
that was the only work that Ihad.
I'd never designed anything inmy life at that point.
But it is, as far as I know andunderstand, it's a decently

(18:36):
rarest process to apply and tobe accepted, and so that was
yeah.
So I ended up making it andhere I am.

Speaker 1 (18:43):
And here people from Kansas City probably applying
like crazy.
And here comes in this walkright in.

Speaker 2 (18:49):
I just walked right in From a small town in the
mountain, california.

Speaker 1 (18:54):
That's great.
Well, congratulations on that.
That's a huge that was cool Ithink like winds like that are
so big at the time that theyjust get smaller and smaller as
we get older.
But, if you ever reflect backon that and think, dang, how
awesome is that that you knowwhat I mean, Like that's a big
win.

Speaker 2 (19:07):
That's a really good point because I think you're
right, Like I don't really thinkabout that story that much
anymore.
But if I really do think aboutthe pivotal piece of part of my
life, that eighth grade yearwhen I was kind of not forced
but pushed into art essentially,and then that graduation year

(19:28):
and coming here for the firsttime, just all of the
difficulties surrounding thosethings and the fact that I did
it and made it Like that ispretty pivotal moment in my life
.

Speaker 1 (19:39):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 2 (19:39):
And the fact that it happened is like oh, I can't
forget about that.
That's part of the story andhow I got here today and what
I'm doing right now.

Speaker 1 (19:51):
Well, with a possibility mindset, it makes it
so much easier to ask what elseis possible when you reflect
back and you count yourblessings and think, man, if
that was possible, think abouthow impossible that felt at the
time.
What else is possible now?
You know, like what's your nextKansas City Art Institute, even
though you've come so far.

Speaker 2 (20:07):
What else is possible ?

Speaker 1 (20:07):
for Clifton right now .
You know so I think that's oneof the things that I don't do it
enough journal and think about,man, what big wins that I have
today.
You know, I've heard it saidit's good to write down your
three wins you had for the dayand the three big wins you want
to have tomorrow and just keepthose possibilities going.
You know so your story is justpossibilities all over the place
.
So, what was college like?
How long were you there?

(20:27):
Tell me about that.

Speaker 2 (20:29):
Typical four years lived in the dorm, a couple
years lived out of the dorm.
The college was very rigorousin the sense that we were
working all the time, all thetime.

Speaker 1 (20:39):
Yeah, it'd be like an architect equivalent, like in
terms of time put in.

Speaker 2 (20:42):
Yeah, we're putting in tons and tons of time.
But the thing about art is andthis happens to this day even
with client work is you don'tknow how long something's going
to take.
There is no formula.
You cannot sit there and saythis logo design for this client
is going to take this amount oftime, this piece of artwork is

(21:03):
going to take this amount oftime.
You start getting into it andyou tweak and iterate, and tweak
and iterate and you don't knowhow long it's going to take.
And sometimes it takes a reallylong time, and so we would be
working all the time.
Me and the folks in my studioin our design school were just
always there.

(21:23):
If we weren't in academicclasses, we were in the studio,
sometimes all night, all thetime.

Speaker 1 (21:29):
I was going to say how many all-night hours do you
think you've pulled in?

Speaker 2 (21:31):
four years, so many, so many, and we spent so much
time together in the schoolduring class but then after
hours, yeah, from six, seveno'clock at night all the way
until midnight almost everynight, just working on projects
together.
Yeah, and it was such a coolexperience in so many different
ways.
Right, a lot of greatexperience, but that was what

(21:52):
college life was about.
But we had this one teacher.
There were two differentteachers in our and I love
telling this story too.
There's two different teachersin our design school and half
the students had one teacher andhalf the students had the other
teacher.
Literally probably a third to ahalf of the students in my

(22:14):
group with my one teachercouldn't handle the teacher.
She was too hard.
Wow, she was a hard and sheexpected a lot like she expected
so much and she was very, shewas brutal in a lot of ways, and
so literally half those kidstransferred out and went to the
other you can do that now.
I guess right, yeah, and bothteachers were great.

(22:35):
I didn't have any issues ofboth teachers.
Both teachers were great, butshe was just really, really,
really hard and me and a smallcore group of teach of kids
stuck with this teacher and youknow what?
We were better for it, becausethe things that we learned from
her I don't think we would havelearned if we had had stepped
back from that and said let'stake the little bit easier path.

(22:56):
We ended up, we ended up justbonding so well together as a
group, but we also learned a lotabout work ethic and and how to
overcome Adversity and how to,how to deal with someone who is
really difficult.
At the end of the day, she wasnot a difficult person, she was
an incredible person.
Yeah, she expected a lot, andwhen we gave her a lot, she was

(23:19):
incredible, and so that was thepart of it that was that I loved
was Was we became very closewith her, the teacher, because
we were putting in the work thatshe was expecting, and when she
would get Hard or when shewould get mean, so to speak, was
when students weren't puttingin the work.
Yeah, and that was the biggestpiece for me was learning how to

(23:43):
how to deal with that sort ofthing and learning how to go
around it and how to do what'sneeded in, or to succeed in,
that environment right.
Yeah and I think that me and thethis the group that were part
of that ended up Ultimately in abetter place, because wow and
again, I don't speak bad aboutanything because I think the

(24:03):
other students incredible, Iknow all of them.
We're all doing great thingstoday, yeah, but for me at that
time that was what I needed,right, and me and that small
group, it's well, maybe it'smore in that sense.
Okay, it was different and itwas what we needed.
Our small group and the othergroup needed something different
.
Everybody needs somethingdifferent.

Speaker 1 (24:19):
Wow, that's that's crazy that yeah.
And did you have that awarenessat the time where you're like
this is hard, she's good, like Isee the goodness I'm gonna see?
You knew you had the witness atthe time.

Speaker 2 (24:29):
Yeah, we knew how to.
We knew how to get on Her goodside so to speak, and it wasn't
just about doing the work.
It was about it wasn't like shewas just like you can get on my
good side by just doing morework.
I mean that was part of it.
But it was also listening andunderstanding how she worked and
kind of, yeah, just realunderstanding how she worked

(24:52):
right and learning, learning herintricacies and what she was
looking for right was part ofthat too.
Yeah, and I think we knew atthe time.

Speaker 1 (24:59):
Yeah Well, what a cool life lesson that you're
able to adapt to.
This person expects this yeahbut at least the expectations
are clear.

Speaker 2 (25:06):
Yeah, so you're a to.

Speaker 1 (25:07):
that's one thing Brad talked about last week.
Brad Ellis, our friend, he'slike I love knowing what people
Expect and so that teacher hadthose expectations so you could
not only know the expectationbut know you adapt to that and
realize that the parts that arehard with this teacher, it's
gonna make me stronger, it'sgonna make me better.

Speaker 2 (25:23):
I love that.
You knew that at such a youngage and that's crazy.

Speaker 1 (25:26):
So so yeah.
So then from there you know yougo through college and you're
you're working with now.
Are you with kind of like thesame I you say you're working on
a project and a project whattakes months or a semester.
Yeah, so you're working thesame small core group on this
big project long term.

Speaker 2 (25:42):
We each had our own individual versions of projects,
but we had the same Task or thesame Directive, I see, and we
all individually.
There were some group projectsthat you worked on, or whatever.

Speaker 1 (25:54):
Yeah, okay, okay, gotcha.
And so that will continuethroughout okay, so four years
of art school.
You make it through any othersignificant moments in that?

Speaker 2 (26:02):
no, I don't think, I don't think anything super
significant this art school.

Speaker 1 (26:05):
Yeah, it was awesome design school.
Yeah, you graduated before youstart a reactor.

Speaker 2 (26:09):
There was maybe a couple other got a couple of
jobs in in industry.
Yeah, yeah, the the one, one ofthe jobs I had was with a
really big ad agency here intown.
It was, it was a good job.
It wasn't the job I wanted, butit was one of those scenarios
where I had to just kind of takea job to get in, to get my foot
in the door.
Sure, a lot of the, a lot ofthe younger folks today Want to

(26:31):
come out of college and go rightinto the career that they want,
or they want to jump right intobeing the lead Person at some
agency or whatever, and I haveto remind them a lot.
I have to say you know, it'sokay to start somewhere else,
it's okay to start in a positionthat's lower or being low on
the totem pole, to start andwork your way up.

(26:51):
Yeah, because that's what.
That's what we have to do inlife a lot of ways yeah and so I
don't.
I don't love it when, whenstudents come right out of high,
out of college, and expect tobe put in a leadership position
at any kind of job, right.
And so I started at the verylow end of the totem pole and
one of the things that I noticedabout the big agency life was
there was a lot of what is likethe telephone game kind of

(27:14):
scenario.
So I'm, I'm working on a designand then I'm giving it to a
person who's then transferringit to this person, and then
they're presenting it to theclient, and then the client says
the client says, okay, I don'tlike this, this, this, and then
it goes to this person and thenback to this person, they're
back to me and then I say, well,but did you ask him this or did
you know?
I was like I was so low on thetotem pole, I was never in a

(27:36):
client meeting, none of thatkind of stuff, okay.
And I, I, I, I hated thatenvironment.
Yes, yes, like there is nothing.
That is the way a very largeagency has to function, because
there's so much moving partsthat they have to have some
process around things.

Speaker 1 (27:55):
Well, you're so relational I bet you were just
dying to talk to the client.

Speaker 2 (27:57):
Oh, it was killing me , can I just?

Speaker 1 (27:59):
go meet with them.

Speaker 2 (27:59):
It was killing me yeah yeah, and that was the
thing it was.
I understand how a large agencyhas to work and I get that
right, but that was not for me.
I couldn't handle it.
And then I was passed up for apromotion opportunity.
I was like I'm out of here, soI'm like I can't handle this
anymore, right, and so I went towork for a different firm and

(28:24):
had a great experience, had alot more, a little more direct
client information.
I was still pretty low in thetone, but I had some decent
client interaction.

Speaker 1 (28:31):
And was this just like an extremely humbling
experience coming from your artbackground to bottom it.
Yeah, even like you said, youknow, that's kind of maybe what
you were expecting.

Speaker 2 (28:39):
I wasn't even, yeah, I wasn't even really designing
that much.
A lot of what I was doing wasjust production work, I see.
But I was okay with that.
I was like I'm fine with that.
This is a way to get into theindustry, it's a way to hone my
skills, it's a way to do allthese sorts of things to get to
where I need to go.

Speaker 1 (28:55):
That's fine Awesome.

Speaker 2 (28:56):
Cool.
And so then I worked for thisother firm and then this firm.
At some point I love the job,it was a fine job, love the
people I was working with andthen the company a large company
they decided to eliminate theentire department that I was in,
so it was just a.
They said we're an architecturefirm, we don't really need to
have design, graphic design,in-house anymore.

(29:18):
It doesn't make sense.
And so we're eliminating yourentire department.
And so I was like okay.

Speaker 1 (29:25):
I'm surprised to hear that an architecture firm had
graphic designers in the firstplace.

Speaker 2 (29:29):
And, to be honest with you, a lot still due to
this day.
So it's a it's a fairlystandard practice and it's not
as much marketing type ofgraphic design, it's more
signage and wayfinding andidentity.
Come on, hey, come on, you'regood, you're good man.

Speaker 1 (29:43):
Yeah, whatever, we're just chill bro you can go up
through right here.
Man, yeah, okay, he'snavigating through tables over
there we got the Minsky's peoplein today.

Speaker 2 (29:52):
Minsky's Another shout out my favorite pizza
place in Kansas City.
I don't just say it becausethey're right there.
I'm like Minsky's.

Speaker 1 (29:58):
Absolutely.
My kids aren't as into Minsky's, I'm like what?

Speaker 2 (30:01):
is your name.
I know it's too fancy.

Speaker 1 (30:03):
I think you're right.
I'm used to, just like you know, rectangle pizza and whatnot,
so okay.

Speaker 2 (30:07):
So anyway, yeah, so you were talking, architecture
had the graphic but it's morefor marketing, more for a while
Signage, wayfinding, dimensionalkind of stuff for you to put
logos and things.

Speaker 1 (30:15):
Yeah, that makes sense, okay, so.
So they just like goodbye.

Speaker 2 (30:18):
Yeah.
And so so my bosses at the timethey were going to, we're still
in the middle of clientprojects.
And so they were like we'regoing to start a firm and we're
going to take these clientprojects.
Yeah, do you want to join us?
And I me and my wife forprobably a year had been talking
about the idea of me going outon my own and starting a firm.
It's something that I'd alwayskind of wanted to do.
And I said, man, now's the Imean, if there's not a, if

(30:39):
there's not a good time, ifthere is a better time, now's
there's not a better time.
We were fairly newly married.
We didn't have kids yet.
Life was simple and we had alittle room for risk here.
We had a little room for riskand so we just said you know
what I said to my?
I said to those guys I said Iwould love to, but this is my
opportunity to start somethingon my own.

(31:00):
If it doesn't work, maybe I'llcome back to you guys, or
whatever.

Speaker 1 (31:02):
Let's what a pivotal moment right.

Speaker 2 (31:03):
Just because we know where the story ends.
It's like imagine if you gotdown the other path 20 years ago
imagine you got down the otherpath.

Speaker 1 (31:10):
You know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (31:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (31:12):
I think about that every once in a while and I go.

Speaker 2 (31:14):
I don't know.
You know, and not not that thishas been all roses and sunshine
and has been great for 20 years, but because there's a lot of
hard things that happen.
But I also legitimately cannotimagine myself working for
someone else Like you, you hadthe entrepreneurial fire in you
and you were like I have to do,I have to do this.

Speaker 1 (31:35):
I remember that feeling.
I was that same way 20 yearsago and I was like this is going
to happen, so wow.
So that's when you started and Istarted reactor your whole
process that you just namedabout starting on the totem pole
, starting small.
I call it start small or startugly, start small, pick up the
ball.
So I feel like with you youpicked up the ball, with you
know, every time you went outand found a new job and then
with reactor, that was a bigball you picked up.

(31:55):
So, here we are.
Let me just say congratulationson 20 years.

Speaker 2 (31:59):
Thank you, I'm glad you did that.
I just celebrated my 20th year,so it's so funny that like same
amount of time we've been inbusiness but that's so great,
man, 20 years.

Speaker 1 (32:09):
So yeah, I mean this is.
I want to hear so much aboutreactor.
I will say that I rememberduring those days I was doing
magic at Fizzoli's kids night,like 20 years ago, and you came
in with your family at the time,so you had tiny little kids.
I did If you even had kids atthat time, probably If we were
coming in.

Speaker 2 (32:24):
Well, I don't know, we lived in, we lived near you
and yeah, yeah, I rememberseeing you a couple times, so I
don't know if you were there forkids night or if you were just
there for lasagna.

Speaker 1 (32:32):
But I remember seeing you and I remember I was, I
needed a logo and stuff likethat and I was just like, oh,
you do that and you use the wordwe.
Oh, we could look at that for aweek.
I was like who's we?

Speaker 2 (32:42):
Because, like me, it's like Devin Anderson the
magician.
That's all that I am, yeah.

Speaker 1 (32:46):
Now I'm hearing this we thing and kind of the first
time I'd ever been introduced to, you can build a team of people
around you.
I know you're very big abouthiring them, right people,
hiring people who are betterthan you at certain roles, so
that you can be freed up to letyour creativity continue to
breathe and move forward.
So tell me about the whole who,not how.
But if you I don't know ifyou've heard that book who, not
how?
It's yeah, what's that looklike for you?

Speaker 2 (33:08):
The whole, the whole, we for the and I use that word
from day one, even when it wasliterally just me Okay, All
right, Because I saw thepossibility of being more than
just myself in this business.
I love that.
The reason I didn't start thebusiness as Clifton Alexander
design or or I'm my name isClifton and I'm a freelancer.

(33:31):
The reason I didn't do thatfrom day one is because I wanted
to build a company.
I wanted to do somethingdifferent than what I
experienced at the agency withthe telephone.

Speaker 1 (33:40):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (33:41):
I wanted to have more direct connection with clients.
I wanted to have a team ofdesigners and I never wanted
even though I started with thewe and I started with building a
company from ground up, I neverwanted it also to be a very
large company.
So I knew you know cause I am arelational kind of person.
I went to a very tiny highschool and a very tiny town,

(34:04):
even Kansas city art institutevery small school.
Kansas city is a big town witha small vibe to it.
That's me.
So I never wanted to build avery large ad agency but I knew
it was, had had to be more thanjust me.
So from day one it was we, itwas we're going to look at this
thing, and eventually I got anintern and got an office and

(34:27):
then just started kind ofbuilding from there.

Speaker 1 (34:29):
That is so cool.
Well, so in the first couple ofyears, I mean, did you have a?
Was it a rough start?

Speaker 2 (34:33):
It was a very rough start, I will tell you, I and my
wife deserves so much creditfor yeah, holly, for just just
supporting me and thinking andjust sticking with me through
all this it seemed the longtermvision, right.

Speaker 1 (34:47):
that this is like, this is necessary, right?

Speaker 2 (34:49):
And she just supported me for all those years
because it was like I had.
I had very little clientinteraction.
I had no idea what a proposallooked like.
I had never been involved inpricing conversations or writing
proposals.

Speaker 1 (35:02):
Because in the ad agency you were way down, I was
way down.
You didn't see all thathappening.

Speaker 2 (35:05):
Even in the other company I was working with, I
had a little bit of clientinteraction, but it was never on
the level of writing a proposalor bidding out work or scoping
work or anything like that.
It was just somebody did thator sales, right, somebody did
that, and then I just was thereto help create and whatever.
And so I, I basically createdeverything I just learned.

(35:29):
I talked to people.
I made a lot of mistakes.
I thought when I launched thisthing that I could just send a
postcard or some emails topeople and they would just hire
me and that's how it worked,right.
And so I created a lot of stuffand I put it out there and then
, like, the calls didn't come in, these are people I didn't even

(35:50):
know.
So I thought I thought if Ijust mail stuff to all the cool
businesses near me, that theywould just be like oh great, a
designer, I need branding, I'mgoing to hire this guy, right?
That is not how it works, man.

Speaker 1 (36:02):
That is not how it works.
How disappointing is that thatyou put all that time in
designing mailing.

Speaker 2 (36:06):
looking at addresses, that's very disappointing.

Speaker 1 (36:08):
That's what we were doing at the time.
It wasn't even email yet, itwas like hard mailing.

Speaker 2 (36:12):
I literally just found, like what are the cool
businesses in downtown ShawneeCause, that's where I lived, and
I said what are the coolbusinesses?
They could use some help.
And so I just send themsomething in the mail and
expected a phone call.
Right, I learned so much abouthow business development works,
and now, after 20 years, I willtell you that it has not changed
.
It is a hundred percentrelationships, man.

(36:33):
It is relational.
I know you probably feel thesame way.
It is.
It is people that you have met.
It's people that you've alreadydone business with or
connections therein, right?

Speaker 1 (36:44):
See, that's what was different about your start and
my start as a magician.
I was face to face with peoplein a natural set I didn't have
to like like I was thinking likeoh, one thing you could have
done with downtown Shawnee waslike knocked on doors and walked
in, not that I'm saying that'dbe, effective, but that'd be the
closest thing you could get tosome kind of face to face
interaction.
Reminding just lent itself to.
I'm just in front of thesepeople, here's my business cards
, and then you get.
I was just, you're already youknow, so this is a but you're

(37:07):
creating that relationship fromthe beginning.

Speaker 2 (37:09):
So the person that's hiring you is saying I've seen
this person and I've talked tothem and I really like what they
do and they're good at it andso I want that for me and so.
So design and branding andbusiness is the same way where
you have to have thoserelationships built in or some
kind of connection.
Otherwise, a person, a person Iwon't say that I've never

(37:33):
gotten business from somebodyjust randomly finding out about
who we are, because every oncein a while I do, but it is.
It is by far the exception tothe rule Almost every other
piece of business in 20 years issome person I've met at a
networking thing or a connectionor relationship or an existing
client.

Speaker 1 (37:51):
And that's what I was going to.
One of my questions for you wasgoing to be like what would you
tell the young entrepreneurwhat's the best thing to do?
And it sounds like network,build relationships, go to go to
chambers right Like go to go tosocials, like after hours,
whatever you know.
Start talking to people, startmeeting people start building
relationships.

Speaker 2 (38:07):
Take people to coffee Um.
Take them to lunch.
Jump on podcasts if you canLike, like uh, if you have
something of value to share tothe world.
Try to get a small lunchspeaking gig at a chamber event
or try to try to try to figureout a way to get your name out
there in any way that you can.
Um build content online.

(38:29):
I am terrible at that, but itis a great way to um build an
expertise in something.
You're doing it um with thepodcast.
You've been doing it for a longtime with videos and with
things like that, where the moresomeone Googles your name and
the more you show up in sometype of?
Um expert opinion or expertise,the more they're likely to hire

(38:49):
you for something.

Speaker 1 (38:51):
So take us past the turbulence.
Well, how'd you get through it?

Speaker 2 (38:54):
What it looked like, when you came out at a higher
altitude, was I think, just Ithink it gets real when you hire
someone and then when you havean office like that's when it
really starts to um, to feellike a business where you're
saying, okay, now it's no longerjust me, I have to now feed

(39:14):
another person, and now thatperson maybe they even have a
family and I'm now I'm nothaving to feed their family,
yeah Right.
And so that becomes a real like, like, okay, now I've got a
really hustle and make sure thatI am all in on this, because
there are people that arecounting on me now, not just my
own family, but other people'sfamilies, and that's a whole

(39:36):
different ballgame, right.

Speaker 1 (39:39):
And so that's when it feels real commitment.
It is a level and now you'recommitted to like support, yeah,
quote, quote support all thesepeople, and so that was a scary
moment, hiring like full time.

Speaker 2 (39:49):
I'd had an intern, um , this person interned with me
for a little bit first, and thenI said you know what?
We are too busy, we're doingtoo good of things and I don't
want you to go get a jobsomewhere else.
Do you want to come work withme?
And um, let's do it.
And so here's my very firstHire.
Um end up working for me for 17years, 20 years absolutely

(40:09):
incredible run that we had.

Speaker 1 (40:10):
Wow, wow.
So so building your team, Imean it sounds like that was
kind of what helped you get past.
It was making that commitment,building the team, and then then
then you have to up your game.
But now you've got these peoplearound you to help you and
support you, and that help, sothere's more.

Speaker 2 (40:23):
Yeah, exactly, pass the hard part to help me learn
and build process and creative.
You know there is no set way tobuild a brand for a company.
There are things that you cando that are best practices, but
there are things that that welearn through experience and
that I bring in with teammembers who have different ideas

(40:44):
and new ideas to say can wehelp a company build their brand
in this way or can we get tothe end in a different way?
How can we do that?
And so we slowly tweak ourprocess and we slowly tweak our
creative ways that we do thingsover the years, depending on the
type of expertise that we havein house, depending on who we
have working for us.

(41:05):
And we've had we've had as manyas seven full-time people, as
few as just myself and one otherperson over the years, and so
we've kind of ebbed and flowedover the years.
But just staying in business,I've found, is maybe more
difficult than growing abusiness if that makes sense

(41:27):
right.
Because sometimes you have tojust take what comes and
sometimes you have to try and goout and get whatever you can
get.
But it is really hard to go outand get business when the only
way you can get business is ifpeople are ready for it.
So there is.
So so you know that everybodyhas to eat.

(41:47):
So you're a restaurant and yousay everybody's got to eat at
some point.
I can find enough people, mostlikely that are need to eat
something.
But with design, with branding,with the stuff that we do, even
with marketing, a lot ofcompanies, even if they know
they need it, they might alreadyhave it.
And so how do you find thetiming that's exactly right with

(42:08):
someone?
So, even if you meet someoneand you have a great
relationship, the timing mightnot be right.
I've had I have clients nowthat are great clients that I
had started talking to six,seven, eight years beforehand
before I ever got something forthem, and that is a really long
slog of just keeping after it orjust keeping relationships up

(42:29):
or just thinking eventuallythey're going to need something,
eventually they're going to beunhappy with whoever they're at.

Speaker 1 (42:34):
I've seen the same thing too when you're like this
may not pay off right now, butjust keep loving people At some
point.
Keep keep relational and yeahso so yeah, I remember at one
point in time it might have beenone of the Fizzoli's visits you
gave me a business card of somelike, because I was like, what
do you guys do?
And you're like, we focused onprint.
Yeah, so at the time you werevery much into print and you

(42:56):
gave me this really cool likealmost origami type business
card that like opened up and Idon't know.
I can't remember, but I waslike that's really cool.
So I know that was your focusat one time.
So what's that progression beenlike for the various types of
specific services you've offeredin the years?

Speaker 2 (43:11):
There was a.
There was a point in time whereand kind of going back to my
art school days where I I likecreating things, I like physical
things, and we get into a worldwhere, especially like starting
in the early 2000s, where whereeverybody was so all in on
technology, on websites, oneverything that businesses said
why do we need to do anythingphysical anymore?

(43:34):
Physical things cost money, webis inexpensive, whatever.
So let's get rid of anythingphysical, okay, and let's just
focus on doing everythingdigital.
And you can't as as a, as ahuman, literally it is built
into our nature.
It is built into us as beingsto be relational, to touch, to

(43:55):
feel, to experience all thesenses, and one of the things
that web or digital experiencesdoes not do is it does not hit
on all of the senses.
It hits on one sense or twosenses or whatever.
It doesn't hit on everything.
And so I saw this like thisovercorrection of society of
saying, like we're going too farinto the to the digital, all
digital realm and we as humansjust can't.

(44:17):
It's not good for us, or and itdoesn't fit into our nature,
and so we're going to eventuallyswing back the other way.
And so we said let's get aheadof that, and let's just yeah
right.
Yeah, let's get ahead of thatand let's go all in on just
saying we're going to be thebest in the world at creating
things that are physical andtactile and all that sort of
thing.
Right, we found out prettyquickly that it was a good

(44:42):
strategy, but our clients needednot just those things.
They needed other things.
They needed digital along withthe physical and all that stuff.
And what I found was as wewould create something physical
for someone, even physical beinga brand then we would hand it
off to somebody else to finishit, to do all the digital stuff,
and we were never happy withwhat we experienced back and we

(45:07):
had great vendors and we hadgreat partners, but we were
never really happy with that,and so we said, you know what,
maybe this isn't the best idea,because we do have to live in a
society where things areintegrated.
I'm still a firm believer thatwe have to come back to some
physical things, but digital ishere to stay, and so we couldn't
.
We couldn't quite figure outthat process of how do we create

(45:28):
our things in the physicalworld and hand them off and
still be happy with what we weregiving to our clients, and so
we slowly started getting backinto being more of an integrated
firm, and so right now I'd saywe're definitely more of an
integrated firm.
We have things that wespecialize in, where we are
creating brands.
We're helping companies growwith their identity, their brand

(45:50):
, their voice, their marketingand all those sorts of things,
but we can help the client inall of those aspects.
We don't do all of those thingsin-house 100%.
There are some things that wedo that we're really, really,
really good at and we have greatpartners that we work with that
we will either pass off to orwe will manage like a general

(46:11):
contractor.
We're managing the drywall,we're managing the electrical,
but we're managing the websitebuild, we're managing the
digital marketing or we'remanaging whatever.
We're still in charge of thebrand and how everything looks,
but we're not passing it offcompletely and we're still
managing that.
So we're much more integrated.
To this day, I also found thatit was very difficult to make

(46:37):
money just doing the printedthings, because the printed
things themselves can be kind ofexpensive, which is great, and
companies like that that lovethe physical whatever.
But when I tell them I'm goingto charge you thousands and
thousands of dollars to come upwith this thing, and then
they're like and then I got topay for the oh my gosh you know
it just it became a weird thing.

(46:59):
So we still do it from time totime, like when people really
need it or it's part of the plan, but our focus really right now
is on the brand itself.

Speaker 1 (47:08):
How do we?

Speaker 2 (47:08):
build a brand and create an identity for a company
which you do, great.
You have your own personalbrand with the orange and the
glasses and cool hair and justeverything you got going on,
just your personality, yoursmile.
We took a selfie for Instagram.

Speaker 1 (47:21):
You're just like you know it's so cool that, like I
can.
Like that's who you are.
You know, if you can do thatwith yourself, that's like a
good indication you can helpother people do that you know,
and before I, you know, kind ofI want to kind of give you a
pitch.
You know you didn't ask for it,but I would just want, like
people who are looking for logos.
So I want to get there.
But just a couple like sort ofbusiness or life philosophies
you have.
I know one of your big thingsis like just ask, yeah, right,

(47:42):
just tell me about that, yeah.

Speaker 2 (47:45):
I tell this to my kids.
I've been doing this for a longtime.
I, when I speak on sometimes Ispeak on literally personal
branding to college students andthings like that and how to
build a brand.
Yeah yeah, One of my number onethings is just ask.
And all that means literallyall that means is, if there's
something in front of you andthere's a person that's
essentially the gatekeeper tothat thing, just ask.

(48:08):
If you don't ask, you're notgoing to know.
And the very first time Iexperienced this was in college
and it's kind of what set it up.
I was working on a project whereI had to do something related
to Union Station.
At the time, Union Station wasunder construction.
It was decrepit.
They were building it back upas under construction.
I needed to get some picturesof Union Station down on the

(48:31):
ground.
I was kind of like I don'treally like the way these look.
And then I looked there's abuilding in Crown Center, across
the street from Union Stationand I said if I could get up to
the top of that building andlook down, I could take some
really cool pictures.
And so I literally just walkedin to the front desk and I said
I'm an art student and I'm doinga project and I need some

(48:53):
photographs of Union Stationfrom up high.
Is there any way I could, likeget onto the roof or whatever?
Yeah, and the security guardwas like, wow, I can't get you
on the roof, or whatever he'slike.
However, there are some officespaces in this building that
have like a window and like alittle balcony.
He's like I could probably justwalk you up there and just kind
of like, let you go out, take apicture.

(49:13):
I was like, okay, and he let meup there.
So we didn't go on the roof,but we got up high and we just
opened some random person'soffice window and I stepped out,
took a picture and left.
And there were some other thingsthat happened in school where I
created some cool projects forthe same thing.
I literally would just callsomeone, say I'm an art student,
I'm creating a sculpture, I'mcreating a project.

(49:34):
Do you have anything you'd bewilling to donate or whatever?
Yeah, and I tell this to mykids all the time as well.
We had.
I was with my kids at a minorleague baseball game and I was
looking at all the people thatgo around and they film kids and
they answer trivia questionsand I was like I wonder how the

(49:56):
kids get on the screen.
And I was with my kids and thislady was walking around with a
camera and she had this littlenotepad and I said, kids, come
here, let's go.
And so I walked down to thelady and I just said, hey, how
do the kids get on the screen?
I just asked her and she waslike well, I'm the person who
handles that and I've got a slotbetween the fourth and fifth
inning.
Do you want to come back downand meet me here and one of your

(50:18):
kids can answer the trivia?
I was like let's go.
So it's those kind of thingswhere you always wonder at the
stadium.
You're like how do those peopleget to be the person on the
screen.
Sometimes somebody literallyjust saw somebody walking around
with a clipboard and asked themcan I be on screen?
And they go okay, and you'rejust like what the heck.

Speaker 1 (50:33):
It applies to anything I think about, even in
restaurants, we'll go, We'll sitand we'll be seated where we
don't want to be.
Just ask can?
We sit over there, why not?
The worst thing happens, youget to know.
Yeah, the worst thing happens,you get to know.

Speaker 2 (50:43):
And so I say that is a philosophy that I live by.
I'm not always great at it, tobe honest with you.
Sometimes I'm scared to ask orsometimes I don't want to, but
it is something that I try toinstill in my kids as much as I
can, and then I always put thatas part of my talk.
When I talk about personalbranding with college students,
it's like you don't know whatsomeone's gonna say, unless you

(51:05):
ask them what's the worst thatcan happen.
They can just say no, awesomeman.

Speaker 1 (51:09):
Well, speaking of networking, we gotta let you cut
here soon, because you got aclient meeting.
You gotta go network.

Speaker 2 (51:13):
I gotta client meet and live up to your.

Speaker 1 (51:15):
But last thing, before we kind of give you a
shout out and find out what youdo or how you can help people
specifically, why do people loveworking for you so much?
I mean, I could guess theanswer to that, but obviously
you're doing something.
You're letting their creativitybreathe.
There's something that makessomeone stick around for 17.
People would love to know howdo we retain these employees?
You know, what's your secretsauce, man?

Speaker 2 (51:36):
It is a tough business to have employees.
That is a tough thing to keeppeople as long as possible.
The 17 year thing is definitelyan anomaly.
I'll be honest with you,especially in my industry, most
people don't stick around morethan two to four or five years,
and we've experienced a lot ofthat too.
But when we interviewcandidates, a lot of times a

(51:58):
candidate will say what do youlike about the job?
And I'm sitting there in theinterview and my employees will
answer that question and I loveto hear the answers to that
because it gives me a little bitof an insight in terms of, like
, what is my employee thinkingand how are they reacting to
that?
But you know, at the end of theday, there's yes, I am like the

(52:21):
boss or the leader or whatever,but there's a lot of autonomy
that I want to instill in thefolks that are working for me
and the sense of saying we havea great culture, we are able to
create our own schedules, we'reable to do the things that we're
really good at.
And I think that's a big pieceof the puzzle where people say I

(52:44):
want to work at a place where Ifeel valued and where I feel
like I'm getting the best of whoI can be, but I'm also learning
and growing and doing all thosethings and I think those are a
lot of the answers.
That I see is like we havethings like flexible work
schedules.
That's great, A lot of peoplecan do that.
But there's also the just thepersonal growth potential and

(53:07):
all those sorts of things.
We don't have a ladder to climb.
There were a small company,You're not going to go from this
position to this position.
You know you're not going tojust keep climbing ladder.
So how do you grow in that way?
And a lot of that to me isautonomy and is saying I don't
care that you're only 22 yearsold or 24 years old.

(53:27):
If you have a really frickinggood idea related to the
operation of the company,related to a client, related to
how we can be better atsomething, I'm all ears, let's
do it, let's try it, Becausepeople are inherently wired to
be good at certain things.
And I'm here to say how can weget those things out of you?

(53:51):
Right, how do we get thosethings out of you?
And I don't want to ever be inthat position where I say I've
been doing this 20 years andthis is just how it has to be.
Now there are certain thingswhere I will push back.
If one of my employees has anidea, and I'll push back, and
I'll push back and I'll pushback.
But if they're so passionateabout it and they see it more

(54:12):
than I can see it, there may bea point where I eventually say
you know what, let's try it.
Wow, let's see what happens.

Speaker 1 (54:18):
You are the Michelangelo who sees the David
in your employees.

Speaker 2 (54:23):
And you're like let's just do my part to chip away
what we can to bring out thatbeauty.

Speaker 1 (54:26):
I love that and people can probably feel that,
and since then I have a chancehere to live out my true purpose
.

Speaker 2 (54:32):
And I'll argue with them about it.
Because I want to know how, inpart of me arguing and pushing,
and pushing, and pushing andsaying, yeah, I have been doing
this 20 years and this is whathas worked up to this point, so
why should we change this?
Okay, I can see that.
And so the more that I argue,the more I get that nuggets back
of saying, okay, maybe theworld is different than it was

(54:54):
20 years ago and so maybe weshould think about doing things
differently.
And then it's like, okay, well,let's experiment with it, let's
take a smaller client, let'stry it with that and let's see
how it works as a group.
And if it works great, then I'mokay with changing our process
to make that work.

Speaker 1 (55:09):
I love how you're open to possible change possible
pushing your thinking.

Speaker 2 (55:13):
Especially communication.
That's the only way to stayalive, man.
And the communication thing ishuge, I think, about parenting.

Speaker 1 (55:18):
We've got to be talking to our kids about their
ideas and fight with them in ahealthy way Like challenge their
thinking.
Let them challenge yourthinking, and I think that's why
it's a huge part of why you'rethriving.
It's not about beingargumentative.

Speaker 2 (55:32):
It's about making sure that their argument back is
not a frivolous one, that it'sa real argument, that it's a
real reason, and not just say,well, because this is how I want
to do it.
It's like, okay, why and whyshould we change the way we've
been doing things for all theseyears to accommodate that?
And let's figure it out andmaybe we experiment and try some

(55:54):
things.

Speaker 1 (55:55):
What a great way to learn, man.
Hey, we got to let you cutloose here, Cliff, and to get to
your meeting.
So quick question there'speople out there listening who,
whether they know it or not,need a brand or maybe need an
update on their existing brand.
How can you help those people?

Speaker 2 (56:08):
So that is exactly what we do is we take companies
that have never existed beforeand we take companies that are
sometimes 100 years old and wehelp them to grow who they are.
We help them to build anidentity, to build a brand, to
market themselves, to get outthere in the world, and that's
everything from logos and voiceto marketing, to social media,

(56:30):
to everything in between, andthat is it.
And so Reactor Design is ourwebsite.
It's pretty easy.
I don't know if you have to puta WWW in front of it.

Speaker 1 (56:38):
I don't know, we'll figure it out.
Reactordesign.
Reactor makes sure.
R-e-a-c-t-o-r.

Speaker 2 (56:44):
Yeah, just like perfect, just simple.

Speaker 1 (56:45):
ReactorDesign that's the name of our company, and the
dot in the middle, You're likeyou don't need to spell it.
I chose it specifically Devin,so you wouldn't have to spell it
out Just the name of ourcompany with a dot in the middle
.

Speaker 2 (56:53):
That's our website.
We have tons of case studies.
There's easy ways to get intouch with me and to look at
more of our team and the type ofwork we do, but that is really
all about it.
It's about growing brands.
It's about building brands.
One of the things that I love todo the most is working with
companies that are experiencingsome sort of change or core

(57:18):
difference in their core, whothey are so like.
We've worked with companiesthat are 80 years old or 50
years old, who have felt likethey're not in the same place as
they were all those years ago,and they may need not just an
identity change but a namechange.
That is a big deal, and so wework with companies in that
sense too, and we have helpedcompanies change their names.

(57:39):
We've helped them change whothey are and how they are viewed
in the world, and thosecompanies then have a new lease
on life at that point and theycan say this is how we're gonna
survive and how we're gonnacontinue for the next 80 years
Is we're gonna change with thetimes and we're gonna move and
grow, and that's some of ourfavorite stuff to do Clifton
Alexander from Reactor.

Speaker 1 (58:00):
Hey man, thanks for being here.

Speaker 2 (58:01):
Great connecting again.
I love it Good to see you,brother.

Speaker 1 (58:04):
Yeah, we'll put his website in the show notes and
just yeah, thanks again.
And also wanna say thank youagain to Excediver Shawnee for
sponsoring us, thank you to Zachbehind the scenes, and we'll
just wrap with our catchphrasehere what else is possible?
Okay, because this is whatyou've been asking Ever since
you went to that small highschool art school.

Speaker 2 (58:25):
You know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (58:26):
Your mom's like, try it.
You're like, what else ispossible?
Let's do it man, I love that,so okay.
So I'll say what else you sayis possible.

Speaker 2 (58:32):
You ready for that?

Speaker 1 (58:33):
Okay, all right, y'all Thanks for joining us, and
remember to never stop askingthe question.
What else?

Speaker 2 (58:39):
is possible.

Speaker 1 (58:39):
We'll see you next time, wow.