November 12, 2024 • 22 mins
What happens when a primatologist and podcaster leaves behind an academic career in Japan to embrace a new chapter in wildlife conservation in Canada?
Crickets on the show, for one...
Join me as I share my emotional decision to move on from Kyoto University and take up the role of Senior Scientist, Wildlife Conservation at the Wilder Institute / Calgary Zoo. The challenges of uprooting my family, the bittersweet farewells to a cherished community, and the thrill of new beginnings all mixed up in this candid narrative.
The episode is one part explanation for a year-long absence from podcasting, one part call-to-action as I wrestle with where to go with the podcast from here.
We're now 9 episodes away from 100. My promise to you is that we'll get there, possibly sooner than you think. But beyond that?
That's where I need your help. Here's what you can do:
- Send in ratings and reviews! Wherever you listen to the show. Apple Podcasts. Spotify. Platform X. Whatever. These will help grow the podcast and tell me how I'm doing, and whether you get value out of the show.
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- Donate! Make a small one-time donation, or become a monthly subscriber for a small fee. Shout outs and deep appreciation to anyone who supports the show. Your support will directly influence whether we carry on beyond the 100 episode benchmark.
This episode is not just a story of change, but a rallying call to join me on this new path where our shared passions for wildlife and science communication can drive the PrimateCast community onward.
The PrimateCast is hosted and produced by Andrew MacIntosh. Artwork by Chris Martin. Music by Andre Goncalves.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Andrew MacIntosh (00:00):
Hey everyone, welcome to the PrimateCast.
You might be thinking toyourself hmm, haven't heard from
this guy in a while, and you'reright.
It's been over 11 months sincethe last episode aired.
So I wanna take this time totalk about why and do a little
podcast reflection.
You won't hear an interview inthis episode, but it would still
mean a lot to me if you couldstick around to the end.
(00:22):
I'm going to leave you with acall to action.
So why the break?
Well, some of you might havealready seen the news on socials
, but I decided to leave myfaculty position at Kyoto
University and take on the roleof Senior Scientist Wildlife
Conservation at the WilderInstitute Calgary Zoo, which
brought me home to Canada.
I'll come back to that in aminute.
(00:43):
But I made that decision backin February and a lot of my
priorities immediately shifted.
One of those early casualtiesobviously was my ability and
actually motivation, if I'mbeing frank to knock out podcast
episodes.
Pulling off an internationalmove with a family of four was
huge.
I know this is the kind ofthing that happens all the time.
I'm sure a lot of you listenershave made international moves
(01:05):
in the past for academic orother professional or personal
reasons I mean.
I myself made the move to Japanfor the first time more than 20
years ago, back in 2003.
But that was just me at thetime.
It's a different beast whenyou're established in a place
with a family, a house that youbuilt not even that many years
ago and a great community fullof supportive people, so the
(01:27):
emotional toll can't beoverstated.
I'd been at Kyoto Universitysince I began my doctoral
program in April 2007, andthat's over 17 years ago.
I was on faculty since 2012,and I had an active lab full of
students doing incredibleresearch.
That just broke a little pieceof my heart to leave them, some
(01:50):
of them still early in theirgraduate programs.
They know that I'm still outthere to help when I'm needed,
but it was never going to beeasy.
I'm still really excited to seewhat comes out of all their
hard work, the big brainsrocking science, but it
definitely feels like there's anexpiry date on those projects.
I mean all my past researchprojects in a way that would
never really come up if Idecided to stay put and keep the
Mac lab going.
(02:10):
One of my former studentscommented that when he heard my
news, his biggest shock was therealization that I just wouldn't
be there as a collaboratoranymore in the future.
We associate our experiences ata place so much with the people
who are there at the time,mostly the ones we work so
closely with, and when thosepeople move on, it just isn't
the same and it's such a deepand profound way.
(02:31):
I guess as academics, we oftenthink of our mentors as these
constants in our lives, and Iactually know exactly what that
student meant.
My own PhD advisor, mike Huffman, retired from Kyoto University
in March this year.
But that's just between you andme and definitely don't tell
him.
I said that.
Instead, go watch his kickoffevent lecture on the SideCast
YouTube channel and let him tellyou about his un-retirement.
(02:54):
But Mike, moving on was just apart of it.
With the Primate ResearchInstitute having been dismantled
and restructured, it reallyisn't or wasn't what it used to
be and may never be again.
Time will tell, but I'd belying if I said that Kyoto
University's decision to do thatdidn't factor into my own
decision to move on.
But there's always so much morebehind a decision like this and
(03:17):
I'll get to that in a bit.
But what does it mean for me?
Professionally, for the mostpart, I left the research
program I built on parasites andwildlife behind.
There's a whole academicidentity tied into those things,
not to mention my other rolesat Kyoto University like mentor,
lecturer, lab manager,department member, colleague,
friend, manager of PSYCAS, theinternational center that
(03:40):
sponsored this very podcast.
Now, all the collaborationsI'll no longer be having and the
people I won't be working withdirectly on all our shared
projects of collective designGut punches, I mean all of that
stuff.
We form these really strongidentities around ourselves as
academics, as scholars, and eventhe thought of vacating those
(04:01):
identities can lead to realfeelings of grief, certainly
fear and sadness.
And I found this really greatFacebook community called the
Professors Out.
Started by the brains behindthe Professors In Karen Kelsky,
that group really helps peopleleave the academy with advice,
support and a network tofacilitate that process.
It's also a place where some goto vent about what they call
(04:21):
the cult of academia.
But what I found endlesslyuplifting on that site was all
the people offering very kindwords to help each other
navigate the world beyond theivory tower, and there's a great
deal of acceptance around theidea that grieving is absolutely
an appropriate response toleaving.
We all have to allow ourselvesto do it if you have the chance,
(04:42):
and I've tried to do that, youknow.
When hearing the news, onecolleague wrote to me why would
you give up a tenuredprofessorship for a job at the
Calgary Zoo?
I got to admit the academic inme flinched at that question.
We work so hard to get on thetenure track and so many of our
colleagues never get there,either because they realized
early on that the strugglewasn't for them the war of
(05:10):
attrition eventually got to themor because the opportunity was
simply never there.
So I'll never forget myprivilege at having been granted
tenure at Kyoto University.
It's one of the top schools inthe world.
I have a massive amount ofgratitude for that, for all the
people I met and was able tolearn from, work with and myself
mentor, and for all theopportunities I had over those
many years to build a researchprogram, to collaborate with
some of the best in the world,all over the world, and just to
(05:32):
grow immensely as a scientist.
But life isn't only about work,even if you are an academic.
Deciding to leave our lives inInuyama was just as hard, if not
harder.
I'll never forget the look onmy kids' faces when we sat
across the dining table fromthem one 12, the other eight and
shared the news that we weremoving to Canada First one, then
(05:53):
the other, in stunned silence,started shedding wet streams
down their cheeks.
It really hits home, evenharder when, after the move, in
a moment of heightened emotions,your preteen asks you through
tears why you went and ruinedtheir life and part of you, even
for just a moment, wonders ifyou had.
That's hard, you know.
(06:16):
My wife and I sent our kids totheir grandparents' place near
Tokyo a few days before we leftthe country.
We stayed behind to clean upthe house and just shut down our
lives there.
But that car ride to the trainstation given from a really
generous friend in the community, it took us away from the house
that we built together.
And it wasn't even that longearlier, that long in the past,
(06:36):
just six years ago.
That was a heart-wrenchingmoment and not long before it
was such a vibrant, criticalpart of our lives, full of our
kids, energy and hygge.
It was home.
That was hard.
Even now we all miss parts ofour lives in Inuyama.
But I have to say I'm alsoreally excited about what I
landed on, about what lies aheadfor me professionally and for
(07:00):
us as a family.
Personally, I've been in my newrole now for a few months, but
really since I signed that offerletter back in March, I've been
really inspired, energized andmotivated to be part of
something so much bigger than mylab at Kyoto University ever
could have been the WilderInstitute Calgary Zoo.
It's such a dynamicorganization doing just
incredible things for Canadianwildlife and for people in
(07:22):
nature around the world.
Everyone I've met so far hasbeen so kind and welcoming,
clearly passionate about thedirection of the organization
and especially the conservationmissions it performs.
I'm lucky to be part of that.
It's refreshing in so many waysto be part of something where
the goals are just all soaligned and there's so much
focus on team culture.
(07:43):
Since I've been here, I've alsolearned just how embedded into
the fabric of the city the zoois.
It's the most visited zoo inCanada, apparently, and one of
the handful in the world thatactually brings in more people
through its gates than theentire population of the city
that it sits in.
That's a crazy stat, but it'sreally a special place, whatever
your views on zoos might be.
It's funny too, because wayback in the day when I finished
(08:06):
my master's degree in Calgary.
I actually applied for aresearch assistant position at
the Calgary Zoo to work on theirVancouver Island Marmot
Conservation Project.
It's a program that's stillgoing strong today.
I didn't get that job, eventhough I drove all the way from
Winnipeg to Calgary for theinterview.
While I was pretty crushed atthe time, that outcome is a huge
(08:27):
part of how and why I am whereI am today, and I guess you
could say that me joining thezoo has been a real slow burn,
but it definitely feels like afull circle moment in that way.
When I did this Hacking Apespodcast about a year ago, I was
asked about this tumbleweedcareer of mine.
I told the story about wantingto be a marine biologist in my
(08:47):
teens and then kind of becomingone accidentally through my
friends and colleagues workingon penguins who sent me to
Antarctica as a marineornithologist.
Yeah, it might be kind of astretch, but okay.
And now I've tumbled again andit's back to where I once wanted
to be.
I know it's easy to drawthreads between all these
disparate events in life, but Ihave to say it can be damn
(09:08):
satisfying to do so and it's alot of fun.
But even more satisfying is justbeing part of so many
incredible and some evenhistoric conservation projects.
Since I've joined, I've haddiscussions about conserving
whooping cranes, burrowing owls,northern leopard frogs, sage
grouse, vancouver Island marmots, hippos, sitatunga mountain,
bongo, half-moon hair streakbutterflies, even the most
(09:30):
endangered great ape, thecross-river gorilla.
But our conservation team isover 30 people strong and that's
a huge commitment to humanresources, to conservation,
saying nothing of the incredibleefforts by development here to
raise money and finance all ourefforts to support these species
at risk.
We even have a chiefconservation officer also a
(09:50):
primatologist, by the way whosits on the zoo's executive team
.
So it's a direct line to theconservation missions that we
have up and down the zoo.
So I'm really ready for thisnew challenge to use whatever
I've learned over the years todo my part to make Canada wilder
.
The other thing about this job,of course, is that it brought me
home to Canada and I definitelyfeel it's about time for that.
(10:13):
And you know I got to say mypeople here agree.
So that's kind of the story ofmy year to date.
There's actually been a lotmore, so much more that I'm not
going to get into on air, andthere always is more, but I hope
you can forgive me for ghostingall of you this year and
welcome the show back once Istart releasing episodes again.
There are a few interviews donelast year or earlier this year
(10:34):
that still need to launch.
These include conversationswith cognitive and behavioral
scientist Nicolas Clédier fromAix-Marsaille University in
France, with animal welfarescientist Lance Miller from the
Brookfield Zoo in Chicago that'sChicago Zoological Society and
even a chat with Amanda Mathesonfrom Biorbic.
(10:54):
It's a Science FoundationIreland Research Center and it's
all about escape rooms forscience communication and
outreach.
I met her at last year's JapanSciComm Forum in November in
Okinawa.
But beyond that, well beyondthat, is exactly where I want to
end this monologue.
I mentioned I was going toleave you with a call to action.
Well, here it is.
I'm no longer a KyotoUniversity primatologist.
(11:18):
This podcast, as it were, issomewhat in limbo.
As a result, the Primatecast isno longer brought to you by
PSYCASP and Kyoto University.
I do hope you can still findthe podcast on the PSYCASP
website at Kyoto University ifyou so desire, and I imagine, at
least for the back catalog.
The show will continue to bethere indefinitely and we'll see
(11:39):
about the future.
Our goal is to continue tocollaborate to make that happen,
but what is certain is I nolonger have my studio, studio
Primate, or the equipment I useto produce the show, and I've
lost my platform.
You know, being at the PrimateResearch Institute and having so
many wonderful primatologistscome through over all those
years was precisely the reasonthat I and my co-founder, chris
(12:02):
Martin, started the podcast.
But even more than that, beinga primatologist, talking with
other primatologists for thepodcast was such a natural thing
to do.
I can't turn off my interest intalking primates, but it's also
far less part of my routinethese days, and so I'll need to
find ways to build thoseconversations into my weekly or
(12:22):
monthly routines to keep thepodcast moving forward, and
that's why I'm calling on younow, probably for the first time
in maybe our 12-year history,to really ask for some help.
This has been a passion projectfor me since the beginning, and
I sincerely hope it's beeninformative and, if I may be so
bold, entertaining for all ofyou, words and all.
But to carry on.
I'm be so bold, entertainingfor all of you, words and all.
(12:43):
But to carry on, I'm going toneed support from as many of you
as are willing to give it.
First, I need ratings andreviews on the podcast.
You go to Apple Podcasts,spotify Podcast Platform X, rate
the show, leave a review.
A rating would be great, but areview even better.
When I look at the show onApple Podcasts, I literally see
(13:09):
five ratings and we have 4.8stars, which is nice, but the
sample size is way too small tothink much of that, and I think
I dug up one review somewhere onthe internet that read they get
great guests, but shows comeout too sporadically or
something like that.
Obviously guilty as charged,hopefully, on both counts.
There have been a few good runsover the years, most recently
my resurgence in 2022, 2023,when I got a lot of growth in,
(13:32):
but, oops, then came 2024, and,yeah, not a lot of nothing.
I still think listeners get alot out of the show and new
people are finding it all thetime.
There are still hundreds ofdownloads every month even
without having released any newepisodes for almost a year, so
I'm getting a little bit off.
Track Ratings and reviews.
It's far better for folks tohear this stuff from each other
(13:55):
than just from me.
Flat out ratings and reviewstune the algorithms and help
other people find the show, butthey're also a great way to let
me know if what I'm doing herehas value to you.
In the past, that it had valueto me and my center was enough,
along with the assumption thatothers found it listenable.
But now I'm looking forsomething more.
I have heard quite a few fromquite a few people over the
(14:19):
years that I've encounteredaround the world and who've said
things like they've listened tothe show and they've enjoyed it
.
One of my favorite moments wasat a conference when someone
mentioned they actuallyconsidered putting the show in
their acknowledgement section ofa paper that they published
because listening to the primatecast was part of their routine
during research.
I absolutely love hearingthings like that.
(14:40):
It fuels me.
But I suspect there are more ofyou out there.
The numbers suggest it and Iwant to hear from you, aside
from ratings and reviews, whichare great first and foremost.
But if you want to reach out tome with suggestions or really
any other comments that come tomind again, especially if you've
enjoyed the show or if it'shelped you out in some way over
the years, then reach out overone of our many channels.
(15:03):
Like you can go totheprimatecastinfo, click on
that little chat icon in thebottom right or scroll to the
bottom of the page and leaveyour name, email address and a
comment and I'll be happy toread it and get back to you,
even if it's just to say thanksfor thinking of me and listening
to the show.
You can now even leave fan maildirectly in each episode, just
by scrolling to the top of theshow notes in whatever podcast
(15:25):
player you're using and clickthe send us a text link.
I thought that was a nice touchwhen I found it.
You can go give it a shot,check out the show notes below
your player right now.
Pause and go fire away.
I'd love to see those textscome in.
It's also pretty easy to findthe show on X, facebook and
Instagram.
Always happy to engage thereand hear from listeners, old and
(15:46):
new, and, of course, there's somany friends and colleagues I
know are out there.
Don't be shy and heck.
You can even just send out anemail to theprimatecast at
gmailcom with anything on yourmind.
Any of these options work justfine, which is what brings me to
the second thing I need helpwith, and that's a little bit of
a bigger ask.
I said earlier that I leftalmost all of my equipment back
(16:08):
in Japan and anyway, now thatI'm the sole showrunner here,
there's really no more supportfor the show at all.
And that includes financials.
Producing a podcast iscertainly not the most
economically taxing ofactivities, but there are
associated costs and I'll bebearing all those on my own.
Now, obviously, the gear comesto mind.
That would include your mic,audio interface, headphones,
(16:29):
mobile recording gear that youmight want when you go on
location, like the fewconferences we recorded from in
the past, and any softwareyou're running to record and
edit the audio and video.
I've hinted at that, but that'snot really the Primate Cast's
mojo at the moment.
Even to compose episodes I'vebeen using software like Apple's
Logic Studio pretty much sincethe beginning now on Logic Pro,
(16:51):
and I also sometimes use iZotopeRX9 for additional editing and
cleaning of audio.
But longer term these do requireupdates and that can bump up
costs.
Even just having a machinecapable of running all of this
stuff is an expense in the longterm.
But the biggest costs come fromwebsite and podcast hosting.
This includes maintaining thePrimateCast domains and hosting
(17:16):
the website.
I'm currently doing that withGoDaddy for the website.
You might notice that thewebsite domain recently changed
from the PrimateCastcom to thePrimateCastinfo.
That might be annoying for some.
I feel ya, but there's also areason for that.
It's because I diverted the comdomain to the podcast hosting
website that comes with thehosting service.
I use Buzzsprout.
They really help manage theshow's backend and its
(17:36):
distribution, track analyticsand a bunch of other things like
generating audio transcripts,audio cleaning, helping with
audio soundbites and providingAI support for metadata and show
notes.
I wrote a little blog aboutstarting to use Buzzsprout in
2022, but I highly recommend itfor anyone thinking about
podcasting and hosting services.
It is a subscription model,though, and that also inflates
(17:58):
costs, especially when addingfeatures like dynamic content,
magic mastering to clean audioand co-host AI.
All of these things do addvalue to the show, but also
costs.
Anyway, theprimeatecastcom iswhere you can now find the
podcast episodes from.
Buzzsprout includes transcriptsand all associated links to the
(18:22):
show.
The info domain will be used asa sister site for additional
info, the blog and other thingslike that.
Not to get too bogged down withthe nitty-gritty of production,
I just mention all of this tohighlight that any support
listeners can provide, evensmall one-time donations or low
recurring monthly subscriptions,really will go a long way to
ensuring that there's long-termviability to the show.
Ultimately, what I'm hoping todo with all this is really build
(18:44):
a primate cast community, butto do that I'm going to need all
hands on deck.
If you send in reviews orcomments, either on your
favorite podcast platform ordirectly to the website, I'll
share those on the show and givea shout out to the person who
wrote it, if named, of course,and if not, then just as an
anonymous tip.
If you support the show througha donation, either once or by
(19:06):
joining as a monthly subscriber,I'll personally thank you on
the show.
I'd like to be in communicationwith listeners more often.
Maybe that's on socials, maybeother channels, and have you
make suggestions for guests, forhow I can improve the podcast,
for anything, maybe to putpeople in touch who would
otherwise have no connection toeach other, for collaboration,
(19:26):
for mentorship who knows?
I'm a huge believer in podcasts,not only as a democratizer of
information flow, but also intheir ability to foster
communities.
The Primate cast has been acommunity like that for me, and
I'm hoping it can be one suchcommunity for others, but it
will take all of us, so I'masking for your help.
(19:46):
If you value the show, pleaseconsider making a donation or
joining as a monthly subscriber.
There are different supporttiers, starting as low as a
one-time donation of five USdollars or a monthly low
subscription of two US dollars.
Supporting the show won'tcurrently change anything about
yours or other listeners'experiences with it.
(20:06):
The show's entire catalog isstill 100% free to everyone all
the time and I'll make sure theexisting episodes are housed
indefinitely accessible on allmajor platforms.
But your support directlyaffects how we move forward,
whether the podcast grows,remains active after its
recovery, of course, from thisabsence, or whether we get to
(20:28):
100 episodes and just call it aday.
By the way, 100 is on thehorizon, yo, it's at 90 now.
My guarantee is that we get to100 and then reevaluate.
That's my magic number, but I'mwilling to go on with your
support.
So this is my call to action toyou.
I know you're listening.
I hope you act.
(20:48):
I look forward to giving afirst round of supporter shout
outs when the Primate Castre-airs November 26th.
More details on socials, butuntil then, take care of each
other out there, will you?
Thanks for listening to thePrimate Cast.
The podcast is hosted andproduced by me, dr Andrew
McIntosh, senior Scientist forWildlife Conservation at the
(21:09):
Wilder Institute, calgary Zoo,formerly associate professor of
biological sciences at KyotoUniversity.
Join me for new episodes asoften as I can get them out, on
whatever podcast platform youprefer.
Leave a rating or a review ofthe show to help other listeners
find it.
Connect with me through ourwebsite, theprimatecastinfo, or
social media on X, facebook orInstagram.
(21:32):
Feel free to comment, askquestions, suggest future guests
or share whatever else might beon your mind.
If you value the show, considerdonating or becoming a member.
You can do so by visitingtheprimatecastinfo and clicking
on the big yellow buy me a micbutton which takes you to our
campaign page.
Or you could click on thatlittle heart icon next to Thank
(21:53):
you.
Hey everyone, welcome to the PrimateCast.
You might be thinking toyourself hmm, haven't heard from
this guy in a while, and you'reright.
It's been over 11 months sincethe last episode aired.
So I wanna take this time totalk about why and do a little
podcast reflection.
You won't hear an interview inthis episode, but it would still
mean a lot to me if you couldstick around to the end.
(00:22):
I'm going to leave you with acall to action.
So why the break?
Well, some of you might havealready seen the news on socials
, but I decided to leave myfaculty position at Kyoto
University and take on the roleof Senior Scientist Wildlife
Conservation at the WilderInstitute Calgary Zoo, which
brought me home to Canada.
I'll come back to that in aminute.
(00:43):
But I made that decision backin February and a lot of my
priorities immediately shifted.
One of those early casualtiesobviously was my ability and
actually motivation, if I'mbeing frank to knock out podcast
episodes.
Pulling off an internationalmove with a family of four was
huge.
I know this is the kind ofthing that happens all the time.
I'm sure a lot of you listenershave made international moves
(01:05):
in the past for academic orother professional or personal
reasons I mean.
I myself made the move to Japanfor the first time more than 20
years ago, back in 2003.
But that was just me at thetime.
It's a different beast whenyou're established in a place
with a family, a house that youbuilt not even that many years
ago and a great community fullof supportive people, so the
(01:27):
emotional toll can't beoverstated.
I'd been at Kyoto Universitysince I began my doctoral
program in April 2007, andthat's over 17 years ago.
I was on faculty since 2012,and I had an active lab full of
students doing incredibleresearch.
That just broke a little pieceof my heart to leave them, some
(01:50):
of them still early in theirgraduate programs.
They know that I'm still outthere to help when I'm needed,
but it was never going to beeasy.
I'm still really excited to seewhat comes out of all their
hard work, the big brainsrocking science, but it
definitely feels like there's anexpiry date on those projects.
I mean all my past researchprojects in a way that would
never really come up if Idecided to stay put and keep the
Mac lab going.
(02:10):
One of my former studentscommented that when he heard my
news, his biggest shock was therealization that I just wouldn't
be there as a collaboratoranymore in the future.
We associate our experiences ata place so much with the people
who are there at the time,mostly the ones we work so
closely with, and when thosepeople move on, it just isn't
the same and it's such a deepand profound way.
(02:31):
I guess as academics, we oftenthink of our mentors as these
constants in our lives, and Iactually know exactly what that
student meant.
My own PhD advisor, mike Huffman, retired from Kyoto University
in March this year.
But that's just between you andme and definitely don't tell
him.
I said that.
Instead, go watch his kickoffevent lecture on the SideCast
YouTube channel and let him tellyou about his un-retirement.
(02:54):
But Mike, moving on was just apart of it.
With the Primate ResearchInstitute having been dismantled
and restructured, it reallyisn't or wasn't what it used to
be and may never be again.
Time will tell, but I'd belying if I said that Kyoto
University's decision to do thatdidn't factor into my own
decision to move on.
But there's always so much morebehind a decision like this and
(03:17):
I'll get to that in a bit.
But what does it mean for me?
Professionally, for the mostpart, I left the research
program I built on parasites andwildlife behind.
There's a whole academicidentity tied into those things,
not to mention my other rolesat Kyoto University like mentor,
lecturer, lab manager,department member, colleague,
friend, manager of PSYCAS, theinternational center that
(03:40):
sponsored this very podcast.
Now, all the collaborationsI'll no longer be having and the
people I won't be working withdirectly on all our shared
projects of collective designGut punches, I mean all of that
stuff.
We form these really strongidentities around ourselves as
academics, as scholars, and eventhe thought of vacating those
(04:01):
identities can lead to realfeelings of grief, certainly
fear and sadness.
And I found this really greatFacebook community called the
Professors Out.
Started by the brains behindthe Professors In Karen Kelsky,
that group really helps peopleleave the academy with advice,
support and a network tofacilitate that process.
It's also a place where some goto vent about what they call
(04:21):
the cult of academia.
But what I found endlesslyuplifting on that site was all
the people offering very kindwords to help each other
navigate the world beyond theivory tower, and there's a great
deal of acceptance around theidea that grieving is absolutely
an appropriate response toleaving.
We all have to allow ourselvesto do it if you have the chance,
(04:42):
and I've tried to do that, youknow.
When hearing the news, onecolleague wrote to me why would
you give up a tenuredprofessorship for a job at the
Calgary Zoo?
I got to admit the academic inme flinched at that question.
We work so hard to get on thetenure track and so many of our
colleagues never get there,either because they realized
early on that the strugglewasn't for them the war of
(05:10):
attrition eventually got to themor because the opportunity was
simply never there.
So I'll never forget myprivilege at having been granted
tenure at Kyoto University.
It's one of the top schools inthe world.
I have a massive amount ofgratitude for that, for all the
people I met and was able tolearn from, work with and myself
mentor, and for all theopportunities I had over those
many years to build a researchprogram, to collaborate with
some of the best in the world,all over the world, and just to
(05:32):
grow immensely as a scientist.
But life isn't only about work,even if you are an academic.
Deciding to leave our lives inInuyama was just as hard, if not
harder.
I'll never forget the look onmy kids' faces when we sat
across the dining table fromthem one 12, the other eight and
shared the news that we weremoving to Canada First one, then
(05:53):
the other, in stunned silence,started shedding wet streams
down their cheeks.
It really hits home, evenharder when, after the move, in
a moment of heightened emotions,your preteen asks you through
tears why you went and ruinedtheir life and part of you, even
for just a moment, wonders ifyou had.
That's hard, you know.
(06:16):
My wife and I sent our kids totheir grandparents' place near
Tokyo a few days before we leftthe country.
We stayed behind to clean upthe house and just shut down our
lives there.
But that car ride to the trainstation given from a really
generous friend in the community, it took us away from the house
that we built together.
And it wasn't even that longearlier, that long in the past,
(06:36):
just six years ago.
That was a heart-wrenchingmoment and not long before it
was such a vibrant, criticalpart of our lives, full of our
kids, energy and hygge.
It was home.
That was hard.
Even now we all miss parts ofour lives in Inuyama.
But I have to say I'm alsoreally excited about what I
landed on, about what lies aheadfor me professionally and for
(07:00):
us as a family.
Personally, I've been in my newrole now for a few months, but
really since I signed that offerletter back in March, I've been
really inspired, energized andmotivated to be part of
something so much bigger than mylab at Kyoto University ever
could have been the WilderInstitute Calgary Zoo.
It's such a dynamicorganization doing just
incredible things for Canadianwildlife and for people in
(07:22):
nature around the world.
Everyone I've met so far hasbeen so kind and welcoming,
clearly passionate about thedirection of the organization
and especially the conservationmissions it performs.
I'm lucky to be part of that.
It's refreshing in so many waysto be part of something where
the goals are just all soaligned and there's so much
focus on team culture.
(07:43):
Since I've been here, I've alsolearned just how embedded into
the fabric of the city the zoois.
It's the most visited zoo inCanada, apparently, and one of
the handful in the world thatactually brings in more people
through its gates than theentire population of the city
that it sits in.
That's a crazy stat, but it'sreally a special place, whatever
your views on zoos might be.
It's funny too, because wayback in the day when I finished
(08:06):
my master's degree in Calgary.
I actually applied for aresearch assistant position at
the Calgary Zoo to work on theirVancouver Island Marmot
Conservation Project.
It's a program that's stillgoing strong today.
I didn't get that job, eventhough I drove all the way from
Winnipeg to Calgary for theinterview.
While I was pretty crushed atthe time, that outcome is a huge
(08:27):
part of how and why I am whereI am today, and I guess you
could say that me joining thezoo has been a real slow burn,
but it definitely feels like afull circle moment in that way.
When I did this Hacking Apespodcast about a year ago, I was
asked about this tumbleweedcareer of mine.
I told the story about wantingto be a marine biologist in my
(08:47):
teens and then kind of becomingone accidentally through my
friends and colleagues workingon penguins who sent me to
Antarctica as a marineornithologist.
Yeah, it might be kind of astretch, but okay.
And now I've tumbled again andit's back to where I once wanted
to be.
I know it's easy to drawthreads between all these
disparate events in life, but Ihave to say it can be damn
(09:08):
satisfying to do so and it's alot of fun.
But even more satisfying is justbeing part of so many
incredible and some evenhistoric conservation projects.
Since I've joined, I've haddiscussions about conserving
whooping cranes, burrowing owls,northern leopard frogs, sage
grouse, vancouver Island marmots, hippos, sitatunga mountain,
bongo, half-moon hair streakbutterflies, even the most
(09:30):
endangered great ape, thecross-river gorilla.
But our conservation team isover 30 people strong and that's
a huge commitment to humanresources, to conservation,
saying nothing of the incredibleefforts by development here to
raise money and finance all ourefforts to support these species
at risk.
We even have a chiefconservation officer also a
(09:50):
primatologist, by the way whosits on the zoo's executive team
.
So it's a direct line to theconservation missions that we
have up and down the zoo.
So I'm really ready for thisnew challenge to use whatever
I've learned over the years todo my part to make Canada wilder
.
The other thing about this job,of course, is that it brought me
home to Canada and I definitelyfeel it's about time for that.
(10:13):
And you know I got to say mypeople here agree.
So that's kind of the story ofmy year to date.
There's actually been a lotmore, so much more that I'm not
going to get into on air, andthere always is more, but I hope
you can forgive me for ghostingall of you this year and
welcome the show back once Istart releasing episodes again.
There are a few interviews donelast year or earlier this year
(10:34):
that still need to launch.
These include conversationswith cognitive and behavioral
scientist Nicolas Clédier fromAix-Marsaille University in
France, with animal welfarescientist Lance Miller from the
Brookfield Zoo in Chicago that'sChicago Zoological Society and
even a chat with Amanda Mathesonfrom Biorbic.
(10:54):
It's a Science FoundationIreland Research Center and it's
all about escape rooms forscience communication and
outreach.
I met her at last year's JapanSciComm Forum in November in
Okinawa.
But beyond that, well beyondthat, is exactly where I want to
end this monologue.
I mentioned I was going toleave you with a call to action.
Well, here it is.
I'm no longer a KyotoUniversity primatologist.
(11:18):
This podcast, as it were, issomewhat in limbo.
As a result, the Primatecast isno longer brought to you by
PSYCASP and Kyoto University.
I do hope you can still findthe podcast on the PSYCASP
website at Kyoto University ifyou so desire, and I imagine, at
least for the back catalog.
The show will continue to bethere indefinitely and we'll see
(11:39):
about the future.
Our goal is to continue tocollaborate to make that happen,
but what is certain is I nolonger have my studio, studio
Primate, or the equipment I useto produce the show, and I've
lost my platform.
You know, being at the PrimateResearch Institute and having so
many wonderful primatologistscome through over all those
years was precisely the reasonthat I and my co-founder, chris
(12:02):
Martin, started the podcast.
But even more than that, beinga primatologist, talking with
other primatologists for thepodcast was such a natural thing
to do.
I can't turn off my interest intalking primates, but it's also
far less part of my routinethese days, and so I'll need to
find ways to build thoseconversations into my weekly or
(12:22):
monthly routines to keep thepodcast moving forward, and
that's why I'm calling on younow, probably for the first time
in maybe our 12-year history,to really ask for some help.
This has been a passion projectfor me since the beginning, and
I sincerely hope it's beeninformative and, if I may be so
bold, entertaining for all ofyou, words and all.
But to carry on.
I'm be so bold, entertainingfor all of you, words and all.
(12:43):
But to carry on, I'm going toneed support from as many of you
as are willing to give it.
First, I need ratings andreviews on the podcast.
You go to Apple Podcasts,spotify Podcast Platform X, rate
the show, leave a review.
A rating would be great, but areview even better.
When I look at the show onApple Podcasts, I literally see
(13:09):
five ratings and we have 4.8stars, which is nice, but the
sample size is way too small tothink much of that, and I think
I dug up one review somewhere onthe internet that read they get
great guests, but shows comeout too sporadically or
something like that.
Obviously guilty as charged,hopefully, on both counts.
There have been a few good runsover the years, most recently
my resurgence in 2022, 2023,when I got a lot of growth in,
(13:32):
but, oops, then came 2024, and,yeah, not a lot of nothing.
I still think listeners get alot out of the show and new
people are finding it all thetime.
There are still hundreds ofdownloads every month even
without having released any newepisodes for almost a year, so
I'm getting a little bit off.
Track Ratings and reviews.
It's far better for folks tohear this stuff from each other
(13:55):
than just from me.
Flat out ratings and reviewstune the algorithms and help
other people find the show, butthey're also a great way to let
me know if what I'm doing herehas value to you.
In the past, that it had valueto me and my center was enough,
along with the assumption thatothers found it listenable.
But now I'm looking forsomething more.
I have heard quite a few fromquite a few people over the
(14:19):
years that I've encounteredaround the world and who've said
things like they've listened tothe show and they've enjoyed it
.
One of my favorite moments wasat a conference when someone
mentioned they actuallyconsidered putting the show in
their acknowledgement section ofa paper that they published
because listening to the primatecast was part of their routine
during research.
I absolutely love hearingthings like that.
(14:40):
It fuels me.
But I suspect there are more ofyou out there.
The numbers suggest it and Iwant to hear from you, aside
from ratings and reviews, whichare great first and foremost.
But if you want to reach out tome with suggestions or really
any other comments that come tomind again, especially if you've
enjoyed the show or if it'shelped you out in some way over
the years, then reach out overone of our many channels.
(15:03):
Like you can go totheprimatecastinfo, click on
that little chat icon in thebottom right or scroll to the
bottom of the page and leaveyour name, email address and a
comment and I'll be happy toread it and get back to you,
even if it's just to say thanksfor thinking of me and listening
to the show.
You can now even leave fan maildirectly in each episode, just
by scrolling to the top of theshow notes in whatever podcast
(15:25):
player you're using and clickthe send us a text link.
I thought that was a nice touchwhen I found it.
You can go give it a shot,check out the show notes below
your player right now.
Pause and go fire away.
I'd love to see those textscome in.
It's also pretty easy to findthe show on X, facebook and
Instagram.
Always happy to engage thereand hear from listeners, old and
(15:46):
new, and, of course, there's somany friends and colleagues I
know are out there.
Don't be shy and heck.
You can even just send out anemail to theprimatecast at
gmailcom with anything on yourmind.
Any of these options work justfine, which is what brings me to
the second thing I need helpwith, and that's a little bit of
a bigger ask.
I said earlier that I leftalmost all of my equipment back
(16:08):
in Japan and anyway, now thatI'm the sole showrunner here,
there's really no more supportfor the show at all.
And that includes financials.
Producing a podcast iscertainly not the most
economically taxing ofactivities, but there are
associated costs and I'll bebearing all those on my own.
Now, obviously, the gear comesto mind.
That would include your mic,audio interface, headphones,
(16:29):
mobile recording gear that youmight want when you go on
location, like the fewconferences we recorded from in
the past, and any softwareyou're running to record and
edit the audio and video.
I've hinted at that, but that'snot really the Primate Cast's
mojo at the moment.
Even to compose episodes I'vebeen using software like Apple's
Logic Studio pretty much sincethe beginning now on Logic Pro,
(16:51):
and I also sometimes use iZotopeRX9 for additional editing and
cleaning of audio.
But longer term these do requireupdates and that can bump up
costs.
Even just having a machinecapable of running all of this
stuff is an expense in the longterm.
But the biggest costs come fromwebsite and podcast hosting.
This includes maintaining thePrimateCast domains and hosting
(17:16):
the website.
I'm currently doing that withGoDaddy for the website.
You might notice that thewebsite domain recently changed
from the PrimateCastcom to thePrimateCastinfo.
That might be annoying for some.
I feel ya, but there's also areason for that.
It's because I diverted the comdomain to the podcast hosting
website that comes with thehosting service.
I use Buzzsprout.
They really help manage theshow's backend and its
(17:36):
distribution, track analyticsand a bunch of other things like
generating audio transcripts,audio cleaning, helping with
audio soundbites and providingAI support for metadata and show
notes.
I wrote a little blog aboutstarting to use Buzzsprout in
2022, but I highly recommend itfor anyone thinking about
podcasting and hosting services.
It is a subscription model,though, and that also inflates
(17:58):
costs, especially when addingfeatures like dynamic content,
magic mastering to clean audioand co-host AI.
All of these things do addvalue to the show, but also
costs.
Anyway, theprimeatecastcom iswhere you can now find the
podcast episodes from.
Buzzsprout includes transcriptsand all associated links to the
(18:22):
show.
The info domain will be used asa sister site for additional
info, the blog and other thingslike that.
Not to get too bogged down withthe nitty-gritty of production,
I just mention all of this tohighlight that any support
listeners can provide, evensmall one-time donations or low
recurring monthly subscriptions,really will go a long way to
ensuring that there's long-termviability to the show.
Ultimately, what I'm hoping todo with all this is really build
(18:44):
a primate cast community, butto do that I'm going to need all
hands on deck.
If you send in reviews orcomments, either on your
favorite podcast platform ordirectly to the website, I'll
share those on the show and givea shout out to the person who
wrote it, if named, of course,and if not, then just as an
anonymous tip.
If you support the show througha donation, either once or by
(19:06):
joining as a monthly subscriber,I'll personally thank you on
the show.
I'd like to be in communicationwith listeners more often.
Maybe that's on socials, maybeother channels, and have you
make suggestions for guests, forhow I can improve the podcast,
for anything, maybe to putpeople in touch who would
otherwise have no connection toeach other, for collaboration,
(19:26):
for mentorship who knows?
I'm a huge believer in podcasts,not only as a democratizer of
information flow, but also intheir ability to foster
communities.
The Primate cast has been acommunity like that for me, and
I'm hoping it can be one suchcommunity for others, but it
will take all of us, so I'masking for your help.
(19:46):
If you value the show, pleaseconsider making a donation or
joining as a monthly subscriber.
There are different supporttiers, starting as low as a
one-time donation of five USdollars or a monthly low
subscription of two US dollars.
Supporting the show won'tcurrently change anything about
yours or other listeners'experiences with it.
(20:06):
The show's entire catalog isstill 100% free to everyone all
the time and I'll make sure theexisting episodes are housed
indefinitely accessible on allmajor platforms.
But your support directlyaffects how we move forward,
whether the podcast grows,remains active after its
recovery, of course, from thisabsence, or whether we get to
(20:28):
100 episodes and just call it aday.
By the way, 100 is on thehorizon, yo, it's at 90 now.
My guarantee is that we get to100 and then reevaluate.
That's my magic number, but I'mwilling to go on with your
support.
So this is my call to action toyou.
I know you're listening.
I hope you act.
(20:48):
I look forward to giving afirst round of supporter shout
outs when the Primate Castre-airs November 26th.
More details on socials, butuntil then, take care of each
other out there, will you?
Thanks for listening to thePrimate Cast.
The podcast is hosted andproduced by me, dr Andrew
McIntosh, senior Scientist forWildlife Conservation at the
(21:09):
Wilder Institute, calgary Zoo,formerly associate professor of
biological sciences at KyotoUniversity.
Join me for new episodes asoften as I can get them out, on
whatever podcast platform youprefer.
Leave a rating or a review ofthe show to help other listeners
find it.
Connect with me through ourwebsite, theprimatecastinfo, or
social media on X, facebook orInstagram.
(21:32):
Feel free to comment, askquestions, suggest future guests
or share whatever else might beon your mind.
If you value the show, considerdonating or becoming a member.
You can do so by visitingtheprimatecastinfo and clicking
on the big yellow buy me a micbutton which takes you to our
campaign page.
Or you could click on thatlittle heart icon next to Thank
(21:53):
you.
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