What's holding you back from reaching your next level? For many, the biggest obstacle is often a mental one, not a physical one. By shifting your perspective and zooming out, you can find pathways around the challenges that seem insurmountable. Uma Subramanian, founder of Limitless Leaders and former Microsoft leader, shares her journey of achieving extraordinary success by adopting a limitless mindset.
Uma explains how she overcame limiting beliefs, reframed her mindset, and transformed her career, even in the early stages. Her story reveals the power of believing in yourself and tackling seemingly impossible constraints—spoiler alert, they’re usually not as impossible as they seem.
Resources from this episode:
- Subscribe to The Product Manager newsletter
- Connect with Uma on LinkedIn
- Check out the Limitless Leaders
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Hannah Cla (00:01):
What's stopping you?
I'm asking because no matter whoyou are, if you're listening to
this episode, I'm sure you'refacing some kind of challenge or
obstacle or goal that's standingbetween you and your next level.
But would you believe me ifI said the biggest hurdle
you have to overcome isprobably in your mind?
This isn't about manifestationor trying to bargain with
the universe, this is aboutrefocusing your perspective.
(00:22):
Instead of zooming in on theblockers in your way, what
if you zoomed out far enoughto see the paths around them?
My guest today is UmaSubramanian, founder
of Limitless Leaders.
Prior to starting LimitlessLeaders, Uma spent 20 years
climbing the ranks at Microsoftwhere her limitless mindset
allowed her to achievespectacular things lightyears
outside of her job description.
You're about to hear theincredible story of what
(00:43):
she was able to pull offeven as a junior IC simply
by believing she could.
You'll also hear Uma's tricksfor reframing limiting beliefs,
how to use your mindset totransform your career, and
how to navigate seeminglyimpossible constraints.
Mild spoiler, they're almostnever actually impossible.
Let's jump in.
Oh, by the way, wehold conversations
(01:03):
like this every week.
So, if this sounds interestingto you, why not subscribe?
Okay, now let's jump in.
Welcome back to theProduct Manager podcast.
I'm here with Uma Subramanian.
Uma, thank you forjoining us today.
Uma Subramanian (01:16):
Yeah.
Hey, Hannah.
Thank you so much forinviting me to your podcast.
It's really an honor.
Hannah Clark (01:22):
Yeah.
We'll start the way thatwe always get started.
Can you tell us a little bitabout your background and how
it led to where you are today?
Uma Subramanian (01:27):
I think I'll have to take you back
to when I was a teenager.
I've picked up Think andGo Rich by Napoleon Hill.
I don't know if you knowthat book, but that book
changed my life and ittaught me that success isn't
reserved to a select few.
It is something that we havefull control over starts,
within our mind, and anyonecan achieve success with a
(01:49):
vision, action, and mindset.
So I carried that mindsetwith me when I started
at Microsoft in 2001.
Moved from New Delhi to Seattleand I had 20 incredible years at
Microsoft working in developercontent and evangelism space.
Never limited myself tomy role or title or the
(02:11):
resources or the team size.
Just always thought big.
Came up with big initiatives,pulled people together from
all around the company andreally had a great time.
And then after 20 years,I joined the tech startup.
Carried the same mindset withme, was really doing well.
But long story short, Iended up resigning close to
(02:35):
my first work anniversary.
That's a separate story, andwithout any backup plan, ended
up resigning and then I waslike, oh, what do I do next?
And the only thing that cameto mind was I realized I've
always been limitless and sostarted limitless leaders where
I now coach tech professionalsrealize that they are limitless
(02:56):
too, and step into leadershipand thrive in leadership really
confidently and effectivelyachieving great things and
becoming highly relevant andin demand in today's market.
Hannah Clark (03:08):
That is super inspiring and I'm
really hoping I can pickup some some tips from you.
So yes, today we're gonnabe focusing all on this
limitless mindset, whichI'm so fascinated by.
So at this point now,this mindset has been
with you for so long.
What's the essence ofthe limitless mindset?
Is it really as simpleas just believing that
there are no limits or isthere more nuance to that?
Uma Subramanian (03:28):
I think it's a few different aspects.
I would say the first isjust starting with believing
that you can be more, wehave limitless potential.
We can do amazing things,and realizing that any given
situation, any circumstance, wecan think differently and either
elevate ourselves or elevateother people or solve something
(03:51):
bigger than what is expected.
So I think it starts from there.
Hannah Clark (03:56):
So I wanna tie it in with two other mindsets
that are, I think, moremainstream that I think are
relevant to this conversation.
So the abundance mindset versusthe scarcity mindset, which
for, anyone who's not familiar,when we say abundance mindset,
we're thinking about there'senough potential and opportunity
to go around, or a scarcitykind of has this mindset that
opportunity is finite, really.
(04:16):
So what do those looklike in practice and how
does that compare withthe limitless mindset that
you're talking about today?
Uma Subramanian (04:22):
Yeah.
I would say the abundancemindset and the limitless
mindset to me is moreor less the same.
To me, for some reason, thatlimitless, one day, actually two
years ago is the first time Irealized that I'm limitless and
look back and reflect it on andfelt like, oh, my whole life,
that's been a recurring theme,but I do think it does nothing.
(04:43):
But just really having anabundance mindset, understanding
that there is more to go around,there's enough resources, and
having positive expectationsfrom people and life.
The scarcity mindset on theother hand is when sometimes,
because of our conditioning,because of our, experiences,
childhood, whatever that maybe, we end up thinking that
(05:07):
there's a lot of limits, lotof constraints, and I've had
them I've had to work on myselfover these years to get out
of many of those, scarcitymindset type of thinking.
And I do think that we canwork on ourselves and expand
our mindset, and that's whatthe abundance mindset or the
limitless mindset to me isall about, it's something
(05:30):
intentional, conscious that youcan work on and expand yourself.
Hannah Clark (05:33):
Yeah, I love that.
And I'd love to hear also somestories from your career in
which you really feel thatmindset played a really pivotal
role in determining the outcome.
It sounds like your experiencesat Microsoft probably span
a lot of different roles, alot of different projects.
Does any experience from thattime or your startup pass
jumped to mind when you thinkabout a time when your mindset
really was the differentiator?
Uma Subramanian (05:54):
Yeah, I have several examples, but
let me share, one first, sothis was a few years ago.
I was at Microsoft was December,holidays right before my
manager going on vacation.
We had our last one-on-oneand he told me, Uma, maybe
when we come back in the newyear, we should have a half
a day event to really helpour Microsoft developers.
(06:19):
Learn and ramp upon our AI platform.
So I was on a developer contentand evangelism type of role for
that AI platform in the team.
And I said, okay.
And then he left.
And here I was really lookingat the opportunity, half a
day training, but then myheart told me that I didn't
see that opportunity as a,creating a half a day training.
(06:41):
I saw it as a whole,an opportunity that
our entire Microsoft.
Product teams needed toknow about this AI platform.
We needed to evangelizeit for the entire company.
And I saw a full fledgedconference in my vision with,
executive keynotes, multipletracks of sessions, asked the
expert booth and all kinds of,partner showcase, all of that.
(07:04):
And so my next question was,okay, how do I make it possible?
Like I just, once thatidea came to me, I realized
that's the right thing to do.
Our platform really needed that.
I had no clue becauseI come from a, product
engineering organization.
My entire career had noevent marketing or conference
type of, background.
But I didn't limit myself to it.
(07:26):
I went and reachedout to my network.
I found a mentor who wasrunning another company,
companywide AI conference.
I asked him if he would help me.
He generously agreed andso worked with him during
those holiday time to.
Come up with an entirestrategy, a detailed proposal
in an execution plan.
(07:48):
And when my manager came backand we had our first one-on-one
in the new year, went and sharedthe proposal, the strategy, and
was an immediate yes, and thenthe entire leadership chain,
of course, we had to go andask for budget, get a buy-in,
and it just went smoothly.
Everyone was like,yes, let's do it.
Within a few weeks, I foundmyself leading this initiative.
(08:09):
Across the company launchingthis conference with no
background, truly in that space.
Working with like over 215leaders, subject matter
experts, product managers,software engineers, just admins.
When those partners, I meanyou name it, and was a huge
conference, huge success.
(08:30):
And then every year I did ituntil I left the Microsoft,
and also not just within theus like we did it in India,
Ireland, China, like everywhere.
And this was a huge, verysuccessful conference.
So that's a great exampleof how you can turn a half a
day training opportunity intoa full-fledged conference
(08:50):
that goes on for years.
Hannah Clark (08:52):
That is an incredible story and it's so
inspiring too that you're ina position where many people
would see themselves in thatcompany, in that role as
those things being completelydivorced from their day-to-day
responsibilities and thereforenot something to even attempt.
So, yeah, I think that whatI've heard repeatedly talking
to leaders in this space is thata lot of the time the thirst
(09:13):
for ideas and for solutionsand answers is within the
company, and executives have thechallenge of trying to find it.
So having that initiative andthat commitment and being able
to see, the value of that ideaand see it through that is
just, ICs, please take note.
It was really awesome.
I wanna talk a littlebit about constraints.
So now that we're talkingabout, you're in a situation,
(09:33):
in this story here where youhad a lot of what appeared
to be immovable constraintsand you just rejected them.
How can folks who see thoseconstraints around them apply
that limitless mindset andhow do you approach evaluating
whether an idea is worthgoing to bat for like that?
Uma Subramanian (09:50):
Yeah, so I think it starts
with really being laserfocused and clear about.
What is really needed in theorganization, what is really
needed for our customers, butbeing really clear about that,
I think for me, when I came upwith that conference idea, I
knew that this was somethingall my senior leaders like,
(10:10):
everyone's gonna say yes.
Because I knew whatthey ultimately wanted.
Like they want our AIplatform to be successful
and the conference will putit into the map and make it
more, create more awareness.
So it's I think it starts withthat, just really listening,
understanding what is reallyneeded in the organization,
what you know our customersneed, and then when these ideas
(10:33):
come believing in yourselfand also asking yourself, what
would extraordinary look like?
That's thing that, I've trainedmyself to ask anything I do.
If there is an opportunitythat comes up, what
would extraordinary looklike in this situation.
Hannah Clark (10:52):
I love this idea because I think a lot of the
time when we apply that sort ofthinking to product development
all the time, we have an ideaof what the angle should look
like and what the requirementsare and how that should behave.
But when we think about ourown ideas that are outside
of our area of expertise,or that we think are maybe,
adjacent to our skillset, kindalose faith in that process.
And it's hard to we mighthave an idea, but we don't
(11:14):
think about what thatidea might look like.
We just think it's a good idea.
I like that idea oftrying to craft a vision
of what is the goal.
So you can reverseengineer towards it.
Uma Subramanian (11:23):
Correct.
Yeah.
It starts with the imagination.
It starts with vision.
It starts with the imagination.
That's usually the first step.
Like usually I see it and then Iknow that it's the right thing.
Like I would like when I seethings like, the next thing
that comes to mind is, oh yes,that's a definite yes because
I know that aligns with whatthe vision of the organization
is, and then I know that, okay,this is something that's worth.
(11:47):
Putting all my effort intoenergy into and going full in.
Hannah Clark (11:52):
Okay.
So speaking of which, soyou mentioned, aligning
your vision with thevision of the organization.
Let's talk about when yourvision doesn't align with
your organization and you'rethinking about making a career
transition or, going for arole that's maybe outside or
doesn't exactly match yourresume or changing companies.
When you think that it mightbe a contentious switch, how
do you apply the limitlessmindset to something like that?
Uma Subra (12:13):
Interesting question.
So this happenedto me when I quit.
As I mentioned, I suddenlyresigned from my tech startup
job and they, because ofall the inner work that I
had done, I didn't dwell innegativity or fear a lot.
Like the immediate thoughtthat came to me was, okay,
all this is happening.
It must be happeningbecause there's probably
(12:34):
something bigger andbetter waiting for me.
And build on to that thought.
And just went all in thatand figured out, okay,
what is the next bigger,better thing I can do?
So I would say if, we are inthat kind of frame of mind
where, I wanna try somethingnew or try something that is
a little bit scary, little bitnew, I would say just, trust
(12:57):
yourself, believe in yourself.
I generally ask people, ifyou look back at your journey.
Has there anything that hashappened in your life that
has not turned out to be good?
I usually, when people in themidst of adversity, in the
midst of challenges, we dosometimes not see the silver
lining, but usually when I askpeople, they look back, they
(13:20):
always come and say, oh no.
Yes, in the midst of it lookeddifficult, but, there was this
good thing that came out of it.
So that's what I want peopleto always, keep in mind.
Is anything that you'reseeking, anything that you're
going after, even if itlooks challenging now, just
know that there's probablysomething great waiting for you.
Hannah Clark (13:40):
Yeah, absolutely.
Going back to internal, theinternal sphere, I imagine
that in the time that you'vehad to coordinate these
limitless projects, obviouslyyou have to collaborate
with a lot of stakeholders.
You have to get buy-in frompeople who are far outside
of your circle of influence,and that can be a really
intimidating proposition.
So how would you applythis mindset to stakeholder
(14:03):
management and relationshipbuilding and gaining
some of that influencewithout authority?
Uma Subramanian (14:08):
My example, I have several examples of
that and I would say even inthis particular example that
I shared about the conference,it's about, first of all,
realizing that we don'thave to compete with people.
Multiple people can win.
If someone else wins,that doesn't mean I lose.
I can also win.
So being willing to putthe spotlight on others as
(14:31):
well, celebrating others,being comfortable with that.
I'll shares a couple ofpractical things that
I have done that havereally worked well for me.
One is I am very easyto give the spotlight
to others if someone is.
Participating in my conferencehelping out, maybe a software
engineer or a product manageris in a booth in the Aspect foot
(14:53):
booth and they're volunteering.
Once they do that, they're gonnaget an email from me, Cing their
manager, my manager, reallyelevating them and thanking
them for what they did andmake sure that they get credit.
So those are a couple of things.
And then the other thing is alsoeven during the project itself.
Giving lots of people,other people the spotlight.
(15:17):
Comfortable with that,knowing that giving other
people spotlight doesn'ttake the spotlight from me.
So those are some thingsthat have really worked well
for me is when I shiftedmy mindset like that.
And I'm, people find itvery easy to work with.
The next time I ask peoplefor a favor, they're willing
to come in, and you haveto think, because of the
(15:38):
role that I was in, if I'masking people to come and
participate in the conference,it's not their day job.
So I'm, if I'm asking a productmanager to come and speak,
that's not their day job.
So those kinds of things,just making sure that we are
giving them the spotlight,celebrating them, understanding
what the value, like whatour stakeholders value,
(15:59):
and giving them that and.
For me, and typically likepeople would like, love
to work on my projects, myinitiatives, because they are
usually very highly visibleand lot of recognition.
Plus they get that visibilityand recognition and they get
to add value and contributeto something that is
(16:19):
important, makes a difference.
So all of that togetherreally helps out with getting
stakeholder buy-in and support.
And now I see that withmy, I help my clients.
Who are product manage?
Many, actually, I have probably60% of my clients are technical
product managers working intech companies and like I
see them once they elevatethemselves, once they figure
(16:42):
out how to not compete withother people, but really add
value, help other people.
We see a huge shift inhow they are perceived.
And you know how opportunitiesare coming to them now,
even more than before.
Hannah Clark (16:58):
I'm so aligned with this idea.
This is such an empatheticway of leading too, and just
interacting, even if you're notin a people leadership role.
I think that is, because Ithink we tend to think about
a lot of work relationshipsas being very transactional.
You ask for something, you waitfor it to come back to you, but
to always be investing in othersthat way and carrying yourself
(17:19):
in a way that yeah, just, Ithink it attracts people's best
work when you give, that goodfaith and that recognition.
And yeah, I think that thisreally underscores this idea
that giving people, evenjust the smallest amount of
recognition goes always somuch further than you expect.
I really appreciatethat perspective.
So let's talk a little bitabout things that stand in the
way of people adopting thismindset 'cause it seems like
(17:41):
it really is an all win andno lose thing so what are some
of the excuses that you'veheard from clients or from
others or limiting beliefsthat you hear and how do you
reframe some of those thoughts?
Uma Subramanian (17:51):
Yeah, really good question.
I still see that, I do hear,people saying, oh, and not, I
cannot do this in my team, orI cannot do this in my role.
Or in my function,this is not possible.
I think it comes down toat some point, people being
open to, and, willing tojust expand their mindset.
(18:12):
A conscious.
I do sometimes see some peoplestruggling with that because
of their past conditioningand, the programming
that they're carrying.
But the people that I haveseen really, come in with an
open mind, they're ready andthey are willing to try things.
I have seen amazingthings happen to them.
I'm happy to shareanother story.
(18:34):
This is a client of mine.
When he came to me, he wasin this toxic culture in a
company, almost like he thoughthe was gonna lose his job,
like within a month, two.
And so he was ready to explorehis next role and literally
it was keeping him up at nightlike he was not able to sleep.
He was extremely stressed and weworked on two different paths.
(18:57):
Like I coached him ontwo different paths.
One is because he had, whenhe came to me, he had given up
on his current organization.
I coached him to actuallystill continue to add amazing
value to his organization aswell as opened the path to
exploring like job opportunitiesoutside and within the company.
(19:18):
We then, worked on reallyunderstanding how he can add
tremendous value, what is it?
And he had those ideas.
Once I started coaching him,he had these he was brilliant,
had incredible, like ideasto add, tremendous value.
So we figured that out andthen he was able to then.
Show up to his senior leadershipteam, share some of those ideas
(19:41):
and put the politics aside.
Put all this oldmindset thinking of,
this is toxic culture.
People don't, wouldn't care.
There was all this thing thatwas playing on his mind before.
And we I coached him to let allthat go and just go in with,
Hey, how can I add extraordinaryvalue to your organization?
(20:01):
And I'm gonna share that.
And I'm gonna believe that,I'm not even gonna focus on the
outcome, but I'm gonna do this.
And so coached him on how toshow up powerfully and share his
ideas and thoughts and be verystrategic about it, and he went
and did that very proactively.
And you'll not believe,he went and presented
it to senior leadership.
(20:22):
They were so impressed withthat one presentation that
many doors opened for himwithin a couple of weeks.
And.
That time, he also landedanother job opportunity outside.
And so he ended up resigningand telling them that,
Hey, I'm, go leaving.
And this old companywas like, oh, no way.
What can we do to make you stay?
(20:44):
But he was, hewanted to move out.
And when he said that,they were like, okay.
If something happens with thatnew company or with the other
role, know that the doors areopen, you can come back here.
And that's prettymuch how we left.
Which he also told methat it's never happened.
Like for other people that haverecently left, they wouldn't
even, try to stop them.
That's just not in the culture.
(21:05):
But we were able to, veryquickly change that whole
like situation, like this way.
And I feel like it's thesekinds of stories that start
to happen when we believe inour limitless potential and we
focus on the right things, howcan we add strategic impact?
How can we look beyond, thenonsense that's happening
(21:27):
and really focus on, whatvalue we can add and how
can we work together.
He also positionedhimself as a really
collaborative team player.
He already was like Iwanna say that, or He
was all these things.
But it was just taking allof that and showing that and
removing some of those thingsthat was limiting him from
showing up in his best self.
(21:48):
That made a huge difference.
Hannah Clark (21:50):
Okay.
This is all incrediblyfascinating to me.
I really am a believer inmindset as being something
that is so powerful indetermining outcomes.
But I also know that we alsohave to balance that with being
a little bit realistic becausewe can't let, how can I put this
limitless mindset also competeswith realistic and sometimes
(22:11):
truly immovable constraints.
How do we distinguish betweena limitation we should accept
versus one we should challenge?
Uma Subramanian (22:18):
So I would say even with the limitless
mindset, we are always workingwithin the reality, right?
Like we are not living insome impossible treatment.
We are fully aware of all thereal constraints and the limits.
And it's just that when youhave a limitless mindset,
you are thinking creatively.
(22:38):
When you see a constraint,you're not limited by it.
Your creative hat, you put onyour creative hat and you think,
is there something that we cando to still make this happen
if this is the right thing?
So you explore options and therecan be structural constraints
like budget, resources,teams, that kind of thing.
(23:01):
Just mindset relatedconstraints where we are just
limiting ourselves becausewe think we cannot do that,
or this is not possible.
So really, becoming self-awareand digging a little bit
deeper to see what kindof a constraint is that.
Is there a creative solutionthat can be worked upon?
So if it's a budget issue,I've had several because of.
(23:22):
The large projects and ideasthat I come up with, I struggle
with or I end up with a lotof situations where I need
a lot of budget and I, myteam sizes are not that big.
So what I have done isI would ask myself, is
there another team that Ican go and ask for help?
Is there a different way that wecan solve this problem without
(23:46):
spending money, or in somecases my team, for example,
like the conference or the,in many projects that I've
taken before that my team sizeswould be like seven or eight
direct reports at Microsoft.
And how would I likeeven think about, large
initiators, but I neverlimited myself to just my org.
I said, okay, it's not just myteam, but my entire organization
(24:07):
or sometimes, multiplelike teams at Microsoft.
And so just thinking aboutwhat is possible, I. But at the
same time, being aware of, ifyou try a few things, knowing
that okay, this constraintis not possible to like,
necessarily eliminate, we haveto accept it and accepting it
(24:28):
and moving faster there too.
Say not getting stuck withgetting a no or not stuck
with not being able to figureout how to solve a solution.
Sometimes you have toaccept and then move
fast in those situations.
I wouldn't say it's you, you'regonna have this dreamy, all like
great kind of an experience.
(24:49):
Like sometimes you dohave those very clear
constraints that come up.
We just accept themand move forward.
Hannah Clark (24:58):
Yeah.
And just adapt around.
And I think that's a goodanswer to that question.
I'm sure that those things docome up, but as I'm thinking
about it, I'm thinking there'sreally not so many challenges
that can't be, solved with somekind of a creative solution.
So imagine, yeah, there'snot really that many.
If the goal is beneficial,I'm sure that generally
speaking, there's always apathway if you look for it.
Uma Subramanian (25:19):
Exactly.
And I wanna say that it dependson the level of belief you have.
Like when I really knowthat, okay, this is the
right thing to do and I knowthis would be good, I've
always figured out a way.
Possible that a fewthat we had to accept.
Still overall, we've been ableto accomplish those projects.
(25:40):
And if you look at Bill Gates orSteve, John, these visionaries
have thought of like theseamazing ideas, many years
ago and they made it happen.
I really believe that it'spossible to make things
happen if we believeand don't give up and.
Hannah Clark (25:58):
Yeah, I tend to agree.
I'm thinking, even thingslike budget, which seemed like
such an immovable constraint.
A lot of the time it's possiblethrough things like strategic
partnerships and trying tofigure out who, who shares your
goal, that's willing to chipinto that, even if they're not
getting, a monetary reward.
Just being part of it.
This is really inspiring.
Some deep thought,Uma, appreciate it.
Uma Subramanian (26:19):
You know, getting engineering resources
from a totally differentcost center that has nothing
to do with our Microsoftgroup that I was proud of.
They've, given buildingresources and supported
us with building an entiredeveloper center for me.
Another group actually justliterally handed off like 40K
for a project that I wanted.
(26:41):
Totally different call center.
They don't benefit in any wayby doing that, but just asking
them, presenting the reasoningand going with the belief, just
always has worked out for me.
Hannah Clark (26:54):
That is incredible.
Okay.
So I have to start to reallywork on my belief muscles
because I, that's amazing.
Okay.
So you said leading withbelief and leading with
belief also I think comeswith a lot of confidence.
So for someone who's earlieron in their career who's maybe
struggling with confidence orfeeling they don't really have
the influence to pull somethingoff like this, what would you
(27:15):
recommend as early first stepsto start shifting towards that
limitless approach and settingthe stage for building those
kinds of relationships that cansupport you during that time?
Uma Subramanian (27:25):
Looking at my life, my journey in
this started with Think andGrow Rich by Napoleon Hill.
So I would say books like thatwould be a good starting point
because they make you realizethat it's all in the mind and
you can, with the power of yourthoughts and mind, you can think
big and achieve big things.
So I would say one of thethings that anyone can do
(27:46):
is, pick up some good booksin that space and work on
expanding your mindset.
The second thing I would say issurround yourself with people
that are already expanded.
I do that.
I start, I, it's actually oneof the chapters in Think and
Grow Rich is about having amastermind group and having
people always, surroundingyourself with people that
(28:07):
are more expanded thanyou, doing bigger, better
things and so that you canlook at them and know that
bigger things are possible.
And I think thatreally has helped me.
I've always invested inprograms, people who are doing
bigger and better things.
Even now, like I'm surroundedby, I'm a leadership coach
(28:28):
now, and I have leadershipcoaches that are doing
amazing things right now.
So just by seeing them doingbigger, better things, I know
that it's possible for me too.
So that's the adviceI would give is.
Surround yourself with peoplethat have that expanded
mindset so you can work onyour belief and keep increasing
your belief in yourself too.
Hannah Clark (28:51):
Oh wow.
Yeah.
That sounds like thereshould be a community
for people like that.
Some kind of like a, a club forpeople who really embrace that
abundance or limitless mindset.
Uma Subramanian (29:00):
We have a community at
thelimitlessleaders.com.
Hannah Clark (29:03):
Well, I wasn't even trying to plug that.
That's wonderful to knowthat you're, you've got this
group of people, obviouslywho are embracing this
mindset coming together.
And then how do you seethis concept evolving
in the tech space?
I feel like at this point rightnow, that we have things like
vibe coding, our trending.
We've got no code.
(29:24):
We've got so many differentopportunities for people to
really act in a limitless way.
So what do you think are someof the skills or mindsets that
will be really crucial fornot just product leaders, but
just anyone right now as the,the tech landscape evolves?
Uma Subramanian (29:40):
I think it's really getting more and more
important for you to standout, figure out a way to
stand out in this landscapebecause there's just so much
with automation, with AI.
Everyone's now an AIproduct leader, AI engineer.
How do you stand out in that?
And so I believe like havinga limitless mindset, thinking
(30:01):
this way, being reallystrategic, thinking big,
going after bold initiatives,working really well with people
and making things happen.
This will help you standout and thrive in this era.
So I really believethat now more than ever
it's really crucial thatwe adopt this mindset.
(30:23):
'cause there's somuch opportunity.
AI is so much ofthe routine work.
We can use our minds to,craft amazing things,
solutions or things thatyou know, the world needs.
And I believe that opportunitiesavailable to anyone and
having a limitless mindset,definitely would result in
(30:46):
amazing things for the world.
Hannah Clark (30:47):
Yeah, I agree.
Yeah, I think now is the time,especially to grasp onto that.
This is the kind of thing,the ideas, the visionary,
that's the stuff that wecan't really automate.
We really need, everyoneis in this position of
having more power than everbefore in that respect.
This is such a cool messageand a very inspirational
and timely, so thank you somuch for joining us, Uma.
Where can peoplefollow your work?
Uma Subramanian (31:08):
I think LinkedIn is
probably the best bet.
Uma Subramanian, reach outto me and definitely would
love to meet folks and havea really good conversation.
Hannah Clark (31:19):
Speaking of very good conversations, thank you
for having one with me today.
I really appreciate your time.
Uma Subramanian (31:23):
Thank you so much, Hannah.
I really appreciate you.
Hannah Clark (31:28):
Thanks for listening in.
For more great insights,how-to guides and tool reviews,
subscribe to our newsletter attheproductmanager.com/subscribe.
You can hear more conversationslike this by subscribing to
the Product Manager whereveryou get your podcasts.
What's stopping you?
I'm asking because no matter whoyou are, if you're listening to
this episode, I'm sure you'refacing some kind of challenge or
obstacle or goal that's standingbetween you and your next level.
But would you believe me ifI said the biggest hurdle
you have to overcome isprobably in your mind?
This isn't about manifestationor trying to bargain with
the universe, this is aboutrefocusing your perspective.
(00:22):
Instead of zooming in on theblockers in your way, what
if you zoomed out far enoughto see the paths around them?
My guest today is UmaSubramanian, founder
of Limitless Leaders.
Prior to starting LimitlessLeaders, Uma spent 20 years
climbing the ranks at Microsoftwhere her limitless mindset
allowed her to achievespectacular things lightyears
outside of her job description.
You're about to hear theincredible story of what
(00:43):
she was able to pull offeven as a junior IC simply
by believing she could.
You'll also hear Uma's tricksfor reframing limiting beliefs,
how to use your mindset totransform your career, and
how to navigate seeminglyimpossible constraints.
Mild spoiler, they're almostnever actually impossible.
Let's jump in.
Oh, by the way, wehold conversations
(01:03):
like this every week.
So, if this sounds interestingto you, why not subscribe?
Okay, now let's jump in.
Welcome back to theProduct Manager podcast.
I'm here with Uma Subramanian.
Uma, thank you forjoining us today.
Uma Subramanian (01:16):
Yeah.
Hey, Hannah.
Thank you so much forinviting me to your podcast.
It's really an honor.
Hannah Clark (01:22):
Yeah.
We'll start the way thatwe always get started.
Can you tell us a little bitabout your background and how
it led to where you are today?
Uma Subramanian (01:27):
I think I'll have to take you back
to when I was a teenager.
I've picked up Think andGo Rich by Napoleon Hill.
I don't know if you knowthat book, but that book
changed my life and ittaught me that success isn't
reserved to a select few.
It is something that we havefull control over starts,
within our mind, and anyonecan achieve success with a
(01:49):
vision, action, and mindset.
So I carried that mindsetwith me when I started
at Microsoft in 2001.
Moved from New Delhi to Seattleand I had 20 incredible years at
Microsoft working in developercontent and evangelism space.
Never limited myself tomy role or title or the
(02:11):
resources or the team size.
Just always thought big.
Came up with big initiatives,pulled people together from
all around the company andreally had a great time.
And then after 20 years,I joined the tech startup.
Carried the same mindset withme, was really doing well.
But long story short, Iended up resigning close to
(02:35):
my first work anniversary.
That's a separate story, andwithout any backup plan, ended
up resigning and then I waslike, oh, what do I do next?
And the only thing that cameto mind was I realized I've
always been limitless and sostarted limitless leaders where
I now coach tech professionalsrealize that they are limitless
(02:56):
too, and step into leadershipand thrive in leadership really
confidently and effectivelyachieving great things and
becoming highly relevant andin demand in today's market.
Hannah Clark (03:08):
That is super inspiring and I'm
really hoping I can pickup some some tips from you.
So yes, today we're gonnabe focusing all on this
limitless mindset, whichI'm so fascinated by.
So at this point now,this mindset has been
with you for so long.
What's the essence ofthe limitless mindset?
Is it really as simpleas just believing that
there are no limits or isthere more nuance to that?
Uma Subramanian (03:28):
I think it's a few different aspects.
I would say the first isjust starting with believing
that you can be more, wehave limitless potential.
We can do amazing things,and realizing that any given
situation, any circumstance, wecan think differently and either
elevate ourselves or elevateother people or solve something
(03:51):
bigger than what is expected.
So I think it starts from there.
Hannah Clark (03:56):
So I wanna tie it in with two other mindsets
that are, I think, moremainstream that I think are
relevant to this conversation.
So the abundance mindset versusthe scarcity mindset, which
for, anyone who's not familiar,when we say abundance mindset,
we're thinking about there'senough potential and opportunity
to go around, or a scarcitykind of has this mindset that
opportunity is finite, really.
(04:16):
So what do those looklike in practice and how
does that compare withthe limitless mindset that
you're talking about today?
Uma Subramanian (04:22):
Yeah.
I would say the abundancemindset and the limitless
mindset to me is moreor less the same.
To me, for some reason, thatlimitless, one day, actually two
years ago is the first time Irealized that I'm limitless and
look back and reflect it on andfelt like, oh, my whole life,
that's been a recurring theme,but I do think it does nothing.
(04:43):
But just really having anabundance mindset, understanding
that there is more to go around,there's enough resources, and
having positive expectationsfrom people and life.
The scarcity mindset on theother hand is when sometimes,
because of our conditioning,because of our, experiences,
childhood, whatever that maybe, we end up thinking that
(05:07):
there's a lot of limits, lotof constraints, and I've had
them I've had to work on myselfover these years to get out
of many of those, scarcitymindset type of thinking.
And I do think that we canwork on ourselves and expand
our mindset, and that's whatthe abundance mindset or the
limitless mindset to me isall about, it's something
(05:30):
intentional, conscious that youcan work on and expand yourself.
Hannah Clark (05:33):
Yeah, I love that.
And I'd love to hear also somestories from your career in
which you really feel thatmindset played a really pivotal
role in determining the outcome.
It sounds like your experiencesat Microsoft probably span
a lot of different roles, alot of different projects.
Does any experience from thattime or your startup pass
jumped to mind when you thinkabout a time when your mindset
really was the differentiator?
Uma Subramanian (05:54):
Yeah, I have several examples, but
let me share, one first, sothis was a few years ago.
I was at Microsoft was December,holidays right before my
manager going on vacation.
We had our last one-on-oneand he told me, Uma, maybe
when we come back in the newyear, we should have a half
a day event to really helpour Microsoft developers.
(06:19):
Learn and ramp upon our AI platform.
So I was on a developer contentand evangelism type of role for
that AI platform in the team.
And I said, okay.
And then he left.
And here I was really lookingat the opportunity, half a
day training, but then myheart told me that I didn't
see that opportunity as a,creating a half a day training.
(06:41):
I saw it as a whole,an opportunity that
our entire Microsoft.
Product teams needed toknow about this AI platform.
We needed to evangelizeit for the entire company.
And I saw a full fledgedconference in my vision with,
executive keynotes, multipletracks of sessions, asked the
expert booth and all kinds of,partner showcase, all of that.
(07:04):
And so my next question was,okay, how do I make it possible?
Like I just, once thatidea came to me, I realized
that's the right thing to do.
Our platform really needed that.
I had no clue becauseI come from a, product
engineering organization.
My entire career had noevent marketing or conference
type of, background.
But I didn't limit myself to it.
(07:26):
I went and reachedout to my network.
I found a mentor who wasrunning another company,
companywide AI conference.
I asked him if he would help me.
He generously agreed andso worked with him during
those holiday time to.
Come up with an entirestrategy, a detailed proposal
in an execution plan.
(07:48):
And when my manager came backand we had our first one-on-one
in the new year, went and sharedthe proposal, the strategy, and
was an immediate yes, and thenthe entire leadership chain,
of course, we had to go andask for budget, get a buy-in,
and it just went smoothly.
Everyone was like,yes, let's do it.
Within a few weeks, I foundmyself leading this initiative.
(08:09):
Across the company launchingthis conference with no
background, truly in that space.
Working with like over 215leaders, subject matter
experts, product managers,software engineers, just admins.
When those partners, I meanyou name it, and was a huge
conference, huge success.
(08:30):
And then every year I did ituntil I left the Microsoft,
and also not just within theus like we did it in India,
Ireland, China, like everywhere.
And this was a huge, verysuccessful conference.
So that's a great exampleof how you can turn a half a
day training opportunity intoa full-fledged conference
(08:50):
that goes on for years.
Hannah Clark (08:52):
That is an incredible story and it's so
inspiring too that you're ina position where many people
would see themselves in thatcompany, in that role as
those things being completelydivorced from their day-to-day
responsibilities and thereforenot something to even attempt.
So, yeah, I think that whatI've heard repeatedly talking
to leaders in this space is thata lot of the time the thirst
(09:13):
for ideas and for solutionsand answers is within the
company, and executives have thechallenge of trying to find it.
So having that initiative andthat commitment and being able
to see, the value of that ideaand see it through that is
just, ICs, please take note.
It was really awesome.
I wanna talk a littlebit about constraints.
So now that we're talkingabout, you're in a situation,
(09:33):
in this story here where youhad a lot of what appeared
to be immovable constraintsand you just rejected them.
How can folks who see thoseconstraints around them apply
that limitless mindset andhow do you approach evaluating
whether an idea is worthgoing to bat for like that?
Uma Subramanian (09:50):
Yeah, so I think it starts
with really being laserfocused and clear about.
What is really needed in theorganization, what is really
needed for our customers, butbeing really clear about that,
I think for me, when I came upwith that conference idea, I
knew that this was somethingall my senior leaders like,
(10:10):
everyone's gonna say yes.
Because I knew whatthey ultimately wanted.
Like they want our AIplatform to be successful
and the conference will putit into the map and make it
more, create more awareness.
So it's I think it starts withthat, just really listening,
understanding what is reallyneeded in the organization,
what you know our customersneed, and then when these ideas
(10:33):
come believing in yourselfand also asking yourself, what
would extraordinary look like?
That's thing that, I've trainedmyself to ask anything I do.
If there is an opportunitythat comes up, what
would extraordinary looklike in this situation.
Hannah Clark (10:52):
I love this idea because I think a lot of the
time when we apply that sort ofthinking to product development
all the time, we have an ideaof what the angle should look
like and what the requirementsare and how that should behave.
But when we think about ourown ideas that are outside
of our area of expertise,or that we think are maybe,
adjacent to our skillset, kindalose faith in that process.
And it's hard to we mighthave an idea, but we don't
(11:14):
think about what thatidea might look like.
We just think it's a good idea.
I like that idea oftrying to craft a vision
of what is the goal.
So you can reverseengineer towards it.
Uma Subramanian (11:23):
Correct.
Yeah.
It starts with the imagination.
It starts with vision.
It starts with the imagination.
That's usually the first step.
Like usually I see it and then Iknow that it's the right thing.
Like I would like when I seethings like, the next thing
that comes to mind is, oh yes,that's a definite yes because
I know that aligns with whatthe vision of the organization
is, and then I know that, okay,this is something that's worth.
(11:47):
Putting all my effort intoenergy into and going full in.
Hannah Clark (11:52):
Okay.
So speaking of which, soyou mentioned, aligning
your vision with thevision of the organization.
Let's talk about when yourvision doesn't align with
your organization and you'rethinking about making a career
transition or, going for arole that's maybe outside or
doesn't exactly match yourresume or changing companies.
When you think that it mightbe a contentious switch, how
do you apply the limitlessmindset to something like that?
Uma Subra (12:13):
Interesting question.
So this happenedto me when I quit.
As I mentioned, I suddenlyresigned from my tech startup
job and they, because ofall the inner work that I
had done, I didn't dwell innegativity or fear a lot.
Like the immediate thoughtthat came to me was, okay,
all this is happening.
It must be happeningbecause there's probably
(12:34):
something bigger andbetter waiting for me.
And build on to that thought.
And just went all in thatand figured out, okay,
what is the next bigger,better thing I can do?
So I would say if, we are inthat kind of frame of mind
where, I wanna try somethingnew or try something that is
a little bit scary, little bitnew, I would say just, trust
(12:57):
yourself, believe in yourself.
I generally ask people, ifyou look back at your journey.
Has there anything that hashappened in your life that
has not turned out to be good?
I usually, when people in themidst of adversity, in the
midst of challenges, we dosometimes not see the silver
lining, but usually when I askpeople, they look back, they
(13:20):
always come and say, oh no.
Yes, in the midst of it lookeddifficult, but, there was this
good thing that came out of it.
So that's what I want peopleto always, keep in mind.
Is anything that you'reseeking, anything that you're
going after, even if itlooks challenging now, just
know that there's probablysomething great waiting for you.
Hannah Clark (13:40):
Yeah, absolutely.
Going back to internal, theinternal sphere, I imagine
that in the time that you'vehad to coordinate these
limitless projects, obviouslyyou have to collaborate
with a lot of stakeholders.
You have to get buy-in frompeople who are far outside
of your circle of influence,and that can be a really
intimidating proposition.
So how would you applythis mindset to stakeholder
(14:03):
management and relationshipbuilding and gaining
some of that influencewithout authority?
Uma Subramanian (14:08):
My example, I have several examples of
that and I would say even inthis particular example that
I shared about the conference,it's about, first of all,
realizing that we don'thave to compete with people.
Multiple people can win.
If someone else wins,that doesn't mean I lose.
I can also win.
So being willing to putthe spotlight on others as
(14:31):
well, celebrating others,being comfortable with that.
I'll shares a couple ofpractical things that
I have done that havereally worked well for me.
One is I am very easyto give the spotlight
to others if someone is.
Participating in my conferencehelping out, maybe a software
engineer or a product manageris in a booth in the Aspect foot
(14:53):
booth and they're volunteering.
Once they do that, they're gonnaget an email from me, Cing their
manager, my manager, reallyelevating them and thanking
them for what they did andmake sure that they get credit.
So those are a couple of things.
And then the other thing is alsoeven during the project itself.
Giving lots of people,other people the spotlight.
(15:17):
Comfortable with that,knowing that giving other
people spotlight doesn'ttake the spotlight from me.
So those are some thingsthat have really worked well
for me is when I shiftedmy mindset like that.
And I'm, people find itvery easy to work with.
The next time I ask peoplefor a favor, they're willing
to come in, and you haveto think, because of the
(15:38):
role that I was in, if I'masking people to come and
participate in the conference,it's not their day job.
So I'm, if I'm asking a productmanager to come and speak,
that's not their day job.
So those kinds of things,just making sure that we are
giving them the spotlight,celebrating them, understanding
what the value, like whatour stakeholders value,
(15:59):
and giving them that and.
For me, and typically likepeople would like, love
to work on my projects, myinitiatives, because they are
usually very highly visibleand lot of recognition.
Plus they get that visibilityand recognition and they get
to add value and contributeto something that is
(16:19):
important, makes a difference.
So all of that togetherreally helps out with getting
stakeholder buy-in and support.
And now I see that withmy, I help my clients.
Who are product manage?
Many, actually, I have probably60% of my clients are technical
product managers working intech companies and like I
see them once they elevatethemselves, once they figure
(16:42):
out how to not compete withother people, but really add
value, help other people.
We see a huge shift inhow they are perceived.
And you know how opportunitiesare coming to them now,
even more than before.
Hannah Clark (16:58):
I'm so aligned with this idea.
This is such an empatheticway of leading too, and just
interacting, even if you're notin a people leadership role.
I think that is, because Ithink we tend to think about
a lot of work relationshipsas being very transactional.
You ask for something, you waitfor it to come back to you, but
to always be investing in othersthat way and carrying yourself
(17:19):
in a way that yeah, just, Ithink it attracts people's best
work when you give, that goodfaith and that recognition.
And yeah, I think that thisreally underscores this idea
that giving people, evenjust the smallest amount of
recognition goes always somuch further than you expect.
I really appreciatethat perspective.
So let's talk a little bitabout things that stand in the
way of people adopting thismindset 'cause it seems like
(17:41):
it really is an all win andno lose thing so what are some
of the excuses that you'veheard from clients or from
others or limiting beliefsthat you hear and how do you
reframe some of those thoughts?
Uma Subramanian (17:51):
Yeah, really good question.
I still see that, I do hear,people saying, oh, and not, I
cannot do this in my team, orI cannot do this in my role.
Or in my function,this is not possible.
I think it comes down toat some point, people being
open to, and, willing tojust expand their mindset.
(18:12):
A conscious.
I do sometimes see some peoplestruggling with that because
of their past conditioningand, the programming
that they're carrying.
But the people that I haveseen really, come in with an
open mind, they're ready andthey are willing to try things.
I have seen amazingthings happen to them.
I'm happy to shareanother story.
(18:34):
This is a client of mine.
When he came to me, he wasin this toxic culture in a
company, almost like he thoughthe was gonna lose his job,
like within a month, two.
And so he was ready to explorehis next role and literally
it was keeping him up at nightlike he was not able to sleep.
He was extremely stressed and weworked on two different paths.
(18:57):
Like I coached him ontwo different paths.
One is because he had, whenhe came to me, he had given up
on his current organization.
I coached him to actuallystill continue to add amazing
value to his organization aswell as opened the path to
exploring like job opportunitiesoutside and within the company.
(19:18):
We then, worked on reallyunderstanding how he can add
tremendous value, what is it?
And he had those ideas.
Once I started coaching him,he had these he was brilliant,
had incredible, like ideasto add, tremendous value.
So we figured that out andthen he was able to then.
Show up to his senior leadershipteam, share some of those ideas
(19:41):
and put the politics aside.
Put all this oldmindset thinking of,
this is toxic culture.
People don't, wouldn't care.
There was all this thing thatwas playing on his mind before.
And we I coached him to let allthat go and just go in with,
Hey, how can I add extraordinaryvalue to your organization?
(20:01):
And I'm gonna share that.
And I'm gonna believe that,I'm not even gonna focus on the
outcome, but I'm gonna do this.
And so coached him on how toshow up powerfully and share his
ideas and thoughts and be verystrategic about it, and he went
and did that very proactively.
And you'll not believe,he went and presented
it to senior leadership.
(20:22):
They were so impressed withthat one presentation that
many doors opened for himwithin a couple of weeks.
And.
That time, he also landedanother job opportunity outside.
And so he ended up resigningand telling them that,
Hey, I'm, go leaving.
And this old companywas like, oh, no way.
What can we do to make you stay?
(20:44):
But he was, hewanted to move out.
And when he said that,they were like, okay.
If something happens with thatnew company or with the other
role, know that the doors areopen, you can come back here.
And that's prettymuch how we left.
Which he also told methat it's never happened.
Like for other people that haverecently left, they wouldn't
even, try to stop them.
That's just not in the culture.
(21:05):
But we were able to, veryquickly change that whole
like situation, like this way.
And I feel like it's thesekinds of stories that start
to happen when we believe inour limitless potential and we
focus on the right things, howcan we add strategic impact?
How can we look beyond, thenonsense that's happening
(21:27):
and really focus on, whatvalue we can add and how
can we work together.
He also positionedhimself as a really
collaborative team player.
He already was like Iwanna say that, or He
was all these things.
But it was just taking allof that and showing that and
removing some of those thingsthat was limiting him from
showing up in his best self.
(21:48):
That made a huge difference.
Hannah Clark (21:50):
Okay.
This is all incrediblyfascinating to me.
I really am a believer inmindset as being something
that is so powerful indetermining outcomes.
But I also know that we alsohave to balance that with being
a little bit realistic becausewe can't let, how can I put this
limitless mindset also competeswith realistic and sometimes
(22:11):
truly immovable constraints.
How do we distinguish betweena limitation we should accept
versus one we should challenge?
Uma Subramanian (22:18):
So I would say even with the limitless
mindset, we are always workingwithin the reality, right?
Like we are not living insome impossible treatment.
We are fully aware of all thereal constraints and the limits.
And it's just that when youhave a limitless mindset,
you are thinking creatively.
(22:38):
When you see a constraint,you're not limited by it.
Your creative hat, you put onyour creative hat and you think,
is there something that we cando to still make this happen
if this is the right thing?
So you explore options and therecan be structural constraints
like budget, resources,teams, that kind of thing.
(23:01):
Just mindset relatedconstraints where we are just
limiting ourselves becausewe think we cannot do that,
or this is not possible.
So really, becoming self-awareand digging a little bit
deeper to see what kindof a constraint is that.
Is there a creative solutionthat can be worked upon?
So if it's a budget issue,I've had several because of.
(23:22):
The large projects and ideasthat I come up with, I struggle
with or I end up with a lotof situations where I need
a lot of budget and I, myteam sizes are not that big.
So what I have done isI would ask myself, is
there another team that Ican go and ask for help?
Is there a different way that wecan solve this problem without
(23:46):
spending money, or in somecases my team, for example,
like the conference or the,in many projects that I've
taken before that my team sizeswould be like seven or eight
direct reports at Microsoft.
And how would I likeeven think about, large
initiators, but I neverlimited myself to just my org.
I said, okay, it's not just myteam, but my entire organization
(24:07):
or sometimes, multiplelike teams at Microsoft.
And so just thinking aboutwhat is possible, I. But at the
same time, being aware of, ifyou try a few things, knowing
that okay, this constraintis not possible to like,
necessarily eliminate, we haveto accept it and accepting it
(24:28):
and moving faster there too.
Say not getting stuck withgetting a no or not stuck
with not being able to figureout how to solve a solution.
Sometimes you have toaccept and then move
fast in those situations.
I wouldn't say it's you, you'regonna have this dreamy, all like
great kind of an experience.
(24:49):
Like sometimes you dohave those very clear
constraints that come up.
We just accept themand move forward.
Hannah Clark (24:58):
Yeah.
And just adapt around.
And I think that's a goodanswer to that question.
I'm sure that those things docome up, but as I'm thinking
about it, I'm thinking there'sreally not so many challenges
that can't be, solved with somekind of a creative solution.
So imagine, yeah, there'snot really that many.
If the goal is beneficial,I'm sure that generally
speaking, there's always apathway if you look for it.
Uma Subramanian (25:19):
Exactly.
And I wanna say that it dependson the level of belief you have.
Like when I really knowthat, okay, this is the
right thing to do and I knowthis would be good, I've
always figured out a way.
Possible that a fewthat we had to accept.
Still overall, we've been ableto accomplish those projects.
(25:40):
And if you look at Bill Gates orSteve, John, these visionaries
have thought of like theseamazing ideas, many years
ago and they made it happen.
I really believe that it'spossible to make things
happen if we believeand don't give up and.
Hannah Clark (25:58):
Yeah, I tend to agree.
I'm thinking, even thingslike budget, which seemed like
such an immovable constraint.
A lot of the time it's possiblethrough things like strategic
partnerships and trying tofigure out who, who shares your
goal, that's willing to chipinto that, even if they're not
getting, a monetary reward.
Just being part of it.
This is really inspiring.
Some deep thought,Uma, appreciate it.
Uma Subramanian (26:19):
You know, getting engineering resources
from a totally differentcost center that has nothing
to do with our Microsoftgroup that I was proud of.
They've, given buildingresources and supported
us with building an entiredeveloper center for me.
Another group actually justliterally handed off like 40K
for a project that I wanted.
(26:41):
Totally different call center.
They don't benefit in any wayby doing that, but just asking
them, presenting the reasoningand going with the belief, just
always has worked out for me.
Hannah Clark (26:54):
That is incredible.
Okay.
So I have to start to reallywork on my belief muscles
because I, that's amazing.
Okay.
So you said leading withbelief and leading with
belief also I think comeswith a lot of confidence.
So for someone who's earlieron in their career who's maybe
struggling with confidence orfeeling they don't really have
the influence to pull somethingoff like this, what would you
(27:15):
recommend as early first stepsto start shifting towards that
limitless approach and settingthe stage for building those
kinds of relationships that cansupport you during that time?
Uma Subramanian (27:25):
Looking at my life, my journey in
this started with Think andGrow Rich by Napoleon Hill.
So I would say books like thatwould be a good starting point
because they make you realizethat it's all in the mind and
you can, with the power of yourthoughts and mind, you can think
big and achieve big things.
So I would say one of thethings that anyone can do
(27:46):
is, pick up some good booksin that space and work on
expanding your mindset.
The second thing I would say issurround yourself with people
that are already expanded.
I do that.
I start, I, it's actually oneof the chapters in Think and
Grow Rich is about having amastermind group and having
people always, surroundingyourself with people that
(28:07):
are more expanded thanyou, doing bigger, better
things and so that you canlook at them and know that
bigger things are possible.
And I think thatreally has helped me.
I've always invested inprograms, people who are doing
bigger and better things.
Even now, like I'm surroundedby, I'm a leadership coach
(28:28):
now, and I have leadershipcoaches that are doing
amazing things right now.
So just by seeing them doingbigger, better things, I know
that it's possible for me too.
So that's the adviceI would give is.
Surround yourself with peoplethat have that expanded
mindset so you can work onyour belief and keep increasing
your belief in yourself too.
Hannah Clark (28:51):
Oh wow.
Yeah.
That sounds like thereshould be a community
for people like that.
Some kind of like a, a club forpeople who really embrace that
abundance or limitless mindset.
Uma Subramanian (29:00):
We have a community at
thelimitlessleaders.com.
Hannah Clark (29:03):
Well, I wasn't even trying to plug that.
That's wonderful to knowthat you're, you've got this
group of people, obviouslywho are embracing this
mindset coming together.
And then how do you seethis concept evolving
in the tech space?
I feel like at this point rightnow, that we have things like
vibe coding, our trending.
We've got no code.
(29:24):
We've got so many differentopportunities for people to
really act in a limitless way.
So what do you think are someof the skills or mindsets that
will be really crucial fornot just product leaders, but
just anyone right now as the,the tech landscape evolves?
Uma Subramanian (29:40):
I think it's really getting more and more
important for you to standout, figure out a way to
stand out in this landscapebecause there's just so much
with automation, with AI.
Everyone's now an AIproduct leader, AI engineer.
How do you stand out in that?
And so I believe like havinga limitless mindset, thinking
(30:01):
this way, being reallystrategic, thinking big,
going after bold initiatives,working really well with people
and making things happen.
This will help you standout and thrive in this era.
So I really believethat now more than ever
it's really crucial thatwe adopt this mindset.
(30:23):
'cause there's somuch opportunity.
AI is so much ofthe routine work.
We can use our minds to,craft amazing things,
solutions or things thatyou know, the world needs.
And I believe that opportunitiesavailable to anyone and
having a limitless mindset,definitely would result in
(30:46):
amazing things for the world.
Hannah Clark (30:47):
Yeah, I agree.
Yeah, I think now is the time,especially to grasp onto that.
This is the kind of thing,the ideas, the visionary,
that's the stuff that wecan't really automate.
We really need, everyoneis in this position of
having more power than everbefore in that respect.
This is such a cool messageand a very inspirational
and timely, so thank you somuch for joining us, Uma.
Where can peoplefollow your work?
Uma Subramanian (31:08):
I think LinkedIn is
probably the best bet.
Uma Subramanian, reach outto me and definitely would
love to meet folks and havea really good conversation.
Hannah Clark (31:19):
Speaking of very good conversations, thank you
for having one with me today.
I really appreciate your time.
Uma Subramanian (31:23):
Thank you so much, Hannah.
I really appreciate you.
Hannah Clark (31:28):
Thanks for listening in.
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