December 13, 2022 • 55 mins
"Ugh, that sales experience gave me the heebee jeebees!" We've all been there. A salesman that was too aggressive and pushy. A saleswoman duped you into upgrading your account when you didn't need to in a sleazy way. And countless other examples of bad sales experiences.
Today's guest, Travis Albritton, joins me as we talk about honest marketing. Travis and I go way back -- to the start of this podcast in 2018.
In our chat, we discuss the good, the bad, and the ugly of marketing - specifically for online businesses. You'll walk away from this convo with a reality check on your marketing and lessons learned to help you make better business decisions.
Click the "Send Krystal a Text Message" link above to send us your questions, comments, and feedback on the show! (Pssst...we'll do giveaways in upcoming episodes so make sure you leave your name & podcast title.)
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Intro (00:00):
I love a reunion. Right?
Like, did you love the friendsreunion that they did? I mean,
it was so good. I loved how, youknow, it was so nostalgic. I
cried. I mean, come on, I'm soembarrassed. But whatever, I
cried at just so many differentthings, because the actors were
overwhelmed by things. And itwas just it was so beautiful to
(00:24):
see them revisit this nostalgic,I mean pop culture phenomenon
that lives in American historyof like the greatest show of all
time, let's just be honest,like, it's so incredible. I love
friends, love, love, love it.
And I just love the idea ofthese people that haven't seen
(00:44):
each other in a while gettingback together and reminiscing
about all the good old days.
Well, that's a little bit abouttoday's guests. And I'm so
excited to share with youbecause we have someone that has
literally been a part of mypodcasting journey from day one.
And we have such a special bondlike such a cool connection. And
(01:07):
I'm so grateful that TravisAllbritton is coming back on the
show today. So Travis has beensomebody, like I said, from the
very beginning, I remember whenI first got started, and y'all
can go back and listen to I'mgonna link in the show notes to
the original interview that Idid with Travis. And I want you
(01:28):
to go listen to Krystal likebaby podcast or baby content
creator. And I had all thequestions for him. And I
actually, I'm laughing at itbecause I remember when the
Facebook group for Buzzsproutwas around 2000 people. And
Travis was the one that was, youknow, admitting people answering
(01:51):
questions like he was runningthe whole thing. He was the head
of content at Buzzsprout for along time, like you will
instantaneously know His voice.
If you have listened to anyepisodes of Buzz cast, which is
Buzz sprouts podcast, or watchtheir content on YouTube. You're
(02:12):
gonna like oh my gosh, yeah, Iknow exactly who Travis is. But
Travis is actually doingsomething brand new, that I am
so thrilled about whenever hetold me what he was doing. I was
like, this is incredible foryou, and I just cannot wait to
share it. But Travis is nowtoday the host of honest
marketing, which is a podcastdedicated to teaching business
(02:34):
owners and entrepreneurs provenstrategies to grow their
business without selling theirsoul. He also is the founder of
honest podcast, a full servicepodcast production agency that
specializes in high qualityvideo podcasts for distribution
on YouTube, Apple podcast andSpotify. So without further ado,
(02:55):
here is my conversation withTravis. Let's get right to it.
Welcome to the Prophet podcastwhere we teach you how to start
launch and market your contentwith confidence. I'm your host,
Krystal Proffitt, and I'm soexcited that you're here. Thanks
for hanging out with me today.
Because if you've been trying tofigure out the world of content
creation, this is the show thatwill help be your time saving
(03:17):
shortcut. So let's get right toit, shall we? All right, Prophet
podcast listeners, we have avery special guest today we have
Travis in the house. Welcome tothe show, Travis.
Travis Albritton (03:35):
Thanks for having me. Excited to be here.
Krystal Proffitt (03:38):
Yeah, so this is actually I was trying to
think back. You guessed it onthe show when it was the rookie
life like way back when and thenyou came on the show. Again, one
of those the profit podcast Iwas thinking or maybe I'm
thinking it could have been, Idon't know, we're gonna link to
all the previous episodes ofTravis because he is somebody
(03:58):
that you've been there since thebeginning of my journey, like in
a really profound way. And I'mgonna embarrass you for a second
because I can because it'sbecause it's my show and I'm in
the host teachers point. Okay.
Travis helped me tremendously inthe very beginning. So we're
going to make us feel old, this2018 When I got started, Travis
(04:19):
answered all of my annoyingquestions with so much patience
and so much just generosity. AndI have to say thank you so much,
because we would not be sittinghere today, talking about all
the fun things we're going totalk about. So thank you so much
for always encouraging me andbeing part of this journey. So I
couldn't let this episode go anyfarther without getting that off
(04:41):
my chest. So sincerely, thankyou so much.
Travis Albritton (04:45):
Oh, that means a lot. Thank you so much,
Krystal, glad glad that I canjust be one of the people on the
path to your greatness and all
Krystal Proffitt (04:54):
your greatness to your world domination. So
happy well If anybody islistening, and you're like,
Travis voice sounds reallyfamiliar, it's because you would
have heard him here on the show,or on other podcast, or possibly
a YouTube channel that you'reall familiar with, because I
(05:14):
reference it all the time. ButTravis is coming to us, not for
Buzzsprout. Today, Travis iscoming on a brand new adventure
that he has started. And Icannot wait to talk all about
it, because he has a brand newshow called Honest marketing.
And I just have to know, wheredid this come from, I have a
(05:35):
feeling as a marketer, there wasa deep need that you were
seeing. And I just, I have toknow, I have to know where this
idea came from.
Travis Albritton (05:42):
Sure. So I'll share that the fun piece of the
story, and then I'll break downthe strategy of it as well.
Awesome, because I know that'llbe really relevant and helpful
for all your listeners. So Ithink, being in the marketing
space, and doing contentmarketing for Buzzsprout, for
four years, doing digitalmarketing for six or seven, you
see a lot of advice. And you seea lot of trends, okay. And so a
(06:06):
lot of the advice tends to betowards the entrepreneur,
because just practically, that'sthe person that's spending money
on the software or the tool, thecourse to get the results they
want, which is how do we makemore money online. But rarely is
the advice, what's in the bestinterests of your customers of
the people buying that course ofthe people going through your
funnel, experiencing yourwebsite. And I was just kind of
(06:31):
like fed up that there wasn'tmore resources out there talking
about how to actually mark itwith integrity, because it's
totally possible. And youactually make more money, if
people feel like they can trustyou, and that you're not just
trying to screw them over allthe time. And so that's where
the idea for honest marketingcame from was, let's just start
highlighting the people that aredoing this the right way, that
are building businesses theright way on top of integrity
(06:53):
and values, and really breakingdown the systems and processes
that businesses can use. Andmarketers can use in order to
get similar results that theywould in a performance or you
know, pay per click model, butwith a more holistic service
oriented approach towards yourclients and your customers. And
so you're thinking about yourbrand, and what people know you
(07:14):
for and the reputation you havein the space. And you're
thinking about how to actuallydo good in the world with your
podcasts. It's not just aboutmaking money, but it's about
doing something that'sworthwhile. And so that's where
the spark came from, just likethis desire to say, You know
what we're going to, we're goingto shift the narrative here,
it's not just going to be abouthow do we increase your opt in
rate by 2%, by creating somefake scarcity and a countdown
(07:37):
timer that doesn't do anythingto try and get people to get you
the credit card before they evenknow that they weren't the
thing? Like, let's just get ridof all that and go back to how
do you solve real problems forpeople in their lives, and help
them feel seen and heard, andthat they can trust you to take
care of them in the journey,like, let's just get back to
that. And so that's really whatit is. But in a online world, so
(07:59):
breaking down content marketing,digital marketing, paid ads,
campaigns, all that stuff.
Strategically, why it makessense for me to do this podcast
because being at Buzzsprout, andbe in the podcasting world, you
know, there's never a lack ofthings to talk about, especially
if you love to hear yourselftalk. And so, so it's like, are
you looking at me when you saidthat? I was looking at the
(08:21):
camera, because I know that'swhat I'm supposed to be doing.
You know, that's, that's whereyou look, you look at the
camera, you don't. So butpodcasters love to talk, it's
just it's why we do it. Right?
If you didn't like to hearyourself talk, you wouldn't do a
podcast. But so so my newbusiness venture that you kind
(08:42):
of teased, I launched a podcastproduction agency called Honest
podcasts. And it's helpingvalues oriented business owners
and entrepreneurs create contentmarketing that aligns with our
business values that helps driveperformance for their business.
And so that is what I do as anagency, that's my service in the
marketplace is your business,you want to make an epic
(09:04):
podcast, I can do that for you.
So then the podcast was not onlya way for me to lead with my
values, and to attract peoplethat would resonate with that
they're like, yeah, like, Ishouldn't have to sell my soul
in order to make money online,like there has to be a better
way. And so maybe there can be aconnection there. But then, by
using it as a platform tointerview potential clients,
(09:24):
then it's much easier to getsomeone who's in a position at a
company that would be interestedin in service like mine, to give
you an hour of their time. It'svery difficult to do in like a
cold call or cold email sense tobe like, Hey, I do this great
thing. Can I get an hour on yourcalendar? It's like, no, I got I
got my own life. I got all thisstuff going on. But if I extend
(09:44):
an olive branch and say I wouldlove to bring you on to talk
about these three things that Iknow you're an expert in and
highlight your expertise andwhat your business does to my
audience. And this is the valuesthat we share in the connection
that we have Now we have anentire hour to build rapport,
and to build a relationship. Andnow I have your contact info.
And we've actually had adialogue and a conversation. So
(10:07):
now if it doesn't make sense,and you're like, actually, this
has been a great experience, Ihave enjoyed being on your
podcast. What would it look likefor you to do that for us? Like,
what would a podcast for ourcompany look like? It's a very
natural next step. Sostrategically, using the
podcast, not just a way ofserving people, which it
certainly is, and most of thepeople that listen to it will
never give me money. And I'mreally excited about that. But
(10:29):
it's also a great vehicle toconnect with people that would
otherwise be unreachable as away of also growing the business
as well. So that's how thepodcast came together.
Krystal Proffitt (10:41):
So there y'all go, you have his whole strategy
there. It's all honest, it is sostraightforward. But this is the
thing that I love about thismodel is because you're not
trying to like bait and switchpeople and say, Hey, we should
do this. Like it. I think that alot of people, especially for my
show, and I'm sure you'veexperienced this too, having run
(11:02):
several podcast, it's like, youcan feel that slime Enos and a
pitch where it's like, oh, Iwould love to come on your show,
or we'd love to have you on ourshow. And this and that. So I
think that this is such anincredible approach, if executed
properly. And Travis just gaveyou all the things it's all
about just bleeding withintegrity. But I have to ask, is
(11:24):
there like this one awfulexperience that you ever had
with marketing that like reallycomes to mind that you're like,
Oh, if I ever had a platform oran opportunity to write this
wrong? Like, is there anythingthat's coming to mind? Oh, 100%.
Travis Albritton (11:39):
And I actually share this in the first episode
that I do for the show. When Ibreak down my laws of honest
marketing, and and one of thelaws of honest marketing, which
I totally made up, but you know,the written in semi stone, and
if other people take it, Itrademarked it. So you heard it
here is, is actually a riff onthe PETA pledge People for the
(12:01):
Ethical Treatment of Animals.
And it's, can you say, No,humans were harmed in the
marketing of your product orservice? Can you actually stand
behind that and say, that is thestandard we hold ourselves to,
not just does our product helppeople, but in the process of
learning about what we do. Andin the process of becoming a
customer, can we say that we didnot harm them in any particular
(12:22):
way, lean into a trauma in theirlife, to twist the knife and
say, here's a big problem, let'smake it bigger. So you'll give
us money. And for me, the storyyou're referring to that you
kind of intuitively knew wasthere, I was doing a launch, I
was doing a product launch. Soalso, in my past, I had an
(12:42):
online teaching ministry, I wasselling courses, memberships,
coaching, helping leaders startonline ministries, and I was
doing a big launch. And so I hadseveral upsells built into it,
it's like, well, if you wantthis program, you might also
like this one. And you mightalso like this one, this is a
way of helping continue to servepeople and give them more
resources to help them with whatthey wanted to do next. But I
would use some of these bestpractices, industry best
(13:06):
practices for maximizing yourprofit...
Krystal Proffitt (13:10):
For everybody listening, he just put quotes
around best practices,
Travis Albritton (13:13):
"best practices"
Krystal Proffitt (13:14):
We have to make sure that that was...
Travis Albritton (13:15):
yeah - air quotes, best practices. And it's
like, Hey, if you just like makethis change, you'll get this
much more money. And I'm like,that sounds great. Why would I
not want that. So at the end ofthat launch, I immediately had
people turn around and say, Ineed to cancel, I want my money
back. Not because I don'tbelieve in the product and what
(13:36):
you're doing. But because of howit made me feel to buy it.
Because of the pressure I feltto make a quick decision in the
moment on something I didn'tfeel fully informed about. And
if that is how the rest of thisrelationship is going to be,
then this isn't going to be afit for me. And that really
stung, right? Because here I amtrying to help people,
(13:58):
especially in like a Christianspace, just like, there's a lot
of weight attached to that. Andthey're feeling like I'm being
manipulative of their emotionsin order to get more money. And
so so that's really stuck withme. And I think that was really
a key pivot point for me where Isaid, you know, what, there
actually is a point in timewhere it's not worth it anymore.
(14:19):
Where that extra couple dollars.
It's just not worth it to me,because there are other things
that are more important than howprofitable lunch can be, or how
profitable a marketing campaigncould be. But I actually want
people to have a positiveexperience of me, and to have a
positive brand affinity, if youcan call it that, where whenever
they think about me, it's alwaysabout Travis is here to help.
(14:42):
And that's the only impressionthey get and there's no sense of
manipulation of coercion of justlike persuading someone to make
a decision is not good for them,but just good for me. Like I
never want any of that to evenbe hinted at in anything that I
do. But that came fromexperience that came from a
really sour taste in my mouth ofwow, this is what these
(15:03):
incremental decisions made withthe best of intent have led me
to let me get as far away fromthat as I possibly can.
Krystal Proffitt (15:13):
Yeah, Ah, man, I'm so sorry that you had to go
through that. Because I'mimagining I've had a similar
experience. And there's avisceral like full body when
you're reading these words fromsomeone and you know that that
wasn't your initial intention.
And you had no, no way of everthinking that that's what was
happening on the back end of foryour customer. And then you see
(15:33):
it. And then you look ateverything in hindsight, and
you're like, oh, my gosh, like,that's exactly what I did. And
you could say, I'm sorry, 1000times. And of course, it's
probably not going to matter tothat person. But I think that
you're doing such an incrediblething and taking it and making
sure that other people know,there is a better way. And
there's another way to do it.
(15:55):
But I'm curious if in lookingback, like let's say you go back
to that launch, and someone'slistening right now, and they're
just getting started. Andthey're like, well, Travis, I
don't know if I've ever done anyof these things. But I know for
sure I want to avoid them. Doyou have any tips for if
someone's laying out? Let's saythey're laying out a launch for
(16:15):
the new year, and they'relooking at their podcasts or
looking at their website,they're looking at their emails
and all the things that they'regoing to incorporate in there?
Do you kind of apply the sameprinciples throughout
everything? Or do you do veryspecific things for each
different platform?
Travis Albritton (16:33):
So I think it starts first with what is the
filter that you're going to makethose decisions with, because
that's the easiest, like simplesolution. So because the
techniques and everything willchange, they change all the
time, right? It used to be youhave these big live launches,
and now evergreen webinars areback. So it's always kind of
circulating and coming around.
So I think whenever you'rethinking about a decision,
(16:54):
whether you're writing an email,creating sales, copy for a
landing page, putting together awebinar, a pitch, ask yourself,
how would I feel, if I told mybest friend to go through this
process? With a come out on theother side, like, that's you
100% I felt you and yourpersonality and everything you
stand for through the wholeprocess? Or would they come
(17:15):
away? thinking, wow, like,that's not the you that I know,
that is a helpful filter?
Because then that'll help youdecide like, should I put this
countdown timer here at the topof the page to get more people
to click on it? But I know likeit's just going to reset on
Thursday? Mm hmm. Well, howwould I feel if my best friend
(17:36):
found out that she made apurchase, or he made a purchase
because the time was runningout, but it just reset on just
resets on Thursday? Then theyfound out about that, like,
would that negatively impactsthe relationship? Probably,
right. So if you're gonna have acountdown timer have it actually
means something. So like, Ithink those, once you have that
filter in place of, I don't wantto do anything that would hurt
(17:59):
my best friend, if they weregoing to this process, or heard
our relationship in any way,then that gives you the decision
making to know what to do whatnot to do, what to emphasize,
not emphasize, you know, andthen I think at some point, also
believing that some of it isjust not going to be up to you.
Like when it comes to a launch,it's so easy to get wrapped up
(18:20):
in the numbers and dissect everylittle thing. And okay, this
thing went wrong. So that's myfault, this thing went wrong. So
that's my fault. You know, I'llnever forget, I did a launch in
January for products. And I did$25,000. I did the exact same
launch in June, two, twice asmany people and only cleared
$15,000. And it was better. Soit's like, is that my fault? I
(18:45):
have no idea. Things happen.
Yeah, it's not always yourfault. It's not Oh, and, and so.
So once you accept that thethings are going to happen
outside of your control, thatallows you to just show up with
a service oriented mind, and tosay whatever this is going to be
it's going to be and I'm goingto be pumped and excited that
I'm taking incremental stepsforward with wherever you are in
the journey, I think there's somuch pressure to just like, have
(19:06):
a big launch, or to grow reallyquickly, and be able to have
these big numbers that, youknow, become case studies for
other people. But most peoplethat I know that are successful
in the online space, they'vebeen doing it for 10 years, 15
years. And so it's not that theyhad this like one big launch
turning point is that they builtup skills over time until they
became the best at what theydid. And then that's why people
(19:27):
do business with them. So Ithink if you can have the
patience to have small launches,and to have, you know, months
where you just do like $100 Butyou know, like nonIS I'm in this
for the long haul. I'm in thisnot because I'm just trying to
make money but because I reallywant to help people. I'm excited
about what I get to do. Theneverything becomes a lot easier
(19:48):
to be patient and you don't haveto press as much you don't have
to try and squeeze every dollarout of everything. You can just
say I just want to make myimprint on the world with my
business and I want my clients,my customers to come away better
for it. And if you can have thepatience, that, you know, it
doesn't have to be, just knockit out of the ballpark, then
(20:08):
that also allows you to feelreally good about what you're
doing
Krystal Proffitt (20:12):
too. I love that everything that you just
said, it not only follows theprinciples of honest marketing,
but it doesn't have the hustleculture attached to it. I know,
I feel like right now. Well,we're recording this. It's like
very anti hustle culture is likethe new trend, which is kind of
you know, everything so cyclicaland so weird in the marketing
(20:33):
space. But I feel like when itcomes down to what you're
willing to kind of put on theline, like you said, put the
filter of your best friendthrough it. And then everything
that you just talked about, thekey takeaway that I hear is
patience. And Travis, I'm notpatient. And I'm like, oh, but
it's also the thing that haskept me in this game. I, you and
(20:54):
I both like we've been in theindustry long enough to see
these meteoric rises of allthese creators, and also the
plummet like we've seen the risein the fall of so many
businesses, so many creators.
And I know that you have a lotof background and not just
podcasting, YouTube marketing,website marketing, like all the
(21:14):
different email marketing. AndI'm curious in you taking all
the knowledge that you've gainedover the years, and applying it
to your new content and your newbusiness. What are some of those
things that you're like, I'm soglad I learned this the first
time. I'm so glad I know thisnow. Like, do you have any tips
to someone that's listening, andthey're just getting started?
(21:37):
And they're like, I want wantTravis as I like, I wouldn't
want this type of platform. Buthow can I kind of leapfrog some
of the big mistakes? That's whatI'm asking really is like,
what's your biggest mistake?
Travis, just tell us?
Travis Albritton (21:52):
So, I mean, so I think my biggest mistakes
typically come from trying totake a shortcut, to be honest.
So coming back to patients,it's, oh, I think I can go from
here to there faster if I justdo this. And then most of the
time, it backfires. Becauseshorts, shortcuts don't usually
work. It's nice to imagine thatthere's a silver bullet out
(22:17):
there. And that's the reasonthat you're not successful. But
it's it's likely not the case,right. And going back to
patients, there's something thatI that I heard recently from a
creator, that really resonatedwith me was that patience is not
an emotion, it's an action. Andso I think the idea of being
patient can feel very agonizing.
But if your actions reflect aperson who is patient, or
(22:41):
showing Patience, then you youare patient, whether you like it
or not, right, I don't likeusing patients, it's not
something I enjoy, it's not afun experience. But if if you
look at what you actually do,and how you actually conduct
yourself, and that showspatience, then that is really
where you focus. That's wherethe discipline comes in. It's
(23:03):
like I'm just gonna bedisciplined to do the right
things the right way. And itdoesn't matter how long it
takes. That's the key. If assoon as you put timetables
associated with goals, thenthere's a lot of pressure to
make things happen. But if it'sthis is the goal, this is where
I'm going. And I'm totallycontent for to take as long as
it takes, because I'm loving theprocess. Like you can't lose in
that scenario, like there's noway that you can lose there.
(23:27):
Because you can pivot, you canshift, you can adjust your
goals, you can say, You knowwhat, that's not actually a goal
I want anymore, I'm gonnareplace it with this one. And
it's like, the best experiencein the world. Like, you just get
to create things and helppeople. That's amazing. But as
soon as you say, Okay, we needto be a six figure business by
year two, because I quit my joband like, this is all I got. So
(23:47):
I don't want to sell the house,like we got to make this happen.
Like, that's a lot of pressureto put on yourself. And, you
know, that's not a really greatplace to operate from or to make
really good long term choicesfrom. So if I think about my
biggest mistakes, it alwayscomes back to not being patient
and wanting the shortcut,winning the quick fix, that's
gonna get me just a little bitfaster, to where I want to be.
(24:09):
Only to realize there's a reasonthat shortcut doesn't work. It's
because you really need to justbe patient and just let it play
out. Yeah, can you hear my kidsjust knocking on stuff in the
background?
Krystal Proffitt (24:22):
It's great.
It's great. I love it. I feellike I feel like they're like
creating the Albritton bands.
Like they're just like, they'reready. They're ready to go. It's
happening. It's like there'sonly company here.
Travis Albritton (24:33):
There's only so much sound dampening you can
do in a home office, you know,like I've got sound tiles. I've
got like a closed door. Good mictechnique. You can't stop a four
year old and a one year oldbeing on the podcast once they
decide they want to be there.
Krystal Proffitt (24:48):
No, they're here. They're here to party.
They're here to party and it'sfine. We welcome it and we're
glad we're glad that they'rehere. They're trying to come in
that's trying to come in and bepart of this conversation. Yep,
But I love what you said aboutpatience and discipline. I think
that was the perfect analogy of,it's not even really comparing
the two. It's like really justaligning them in what you have
(25:11):
to have in order to make thishappen. But I want to go back to
what you were saying aboutsomeone saying, Okay, I quit my
job, I need a six figurebusiness, that it's not only
super hard, like, it's so muchpressure on yourself, it's hard
to be creative. It's so hard tobe creative, and really just
feel alive in your content. Andthis is something I think you do
(25:34):
so well is you put a lot ofemphasis and like, I can feel
the passion, I can feel thepassion, I was actually
listening to your podcast rightbefore this. And I'm gonna pull
up this is the episode y'allneed to go listen to Okay. It's
called the first piece ofcontent. Every business needs. I
was listening to this I waslike, was Trump's got to say
(25:54):
this, I want to hear what he hasto say. But I can feel it like
as soon as you get into it likeyou are no nonsense, let's just
get down to business and talkabout the important things we
need to cover. And I think thatthat just comes from experience,
confidence, but also passion.
Like you're so passionate aboutthis. And I'm just curious, when
you're looking at marketing foryour clients, or the other
(26:18):
people that you're working with?
Is there something that you cando to kind of give them that
patience? Like are you lookingat like long term strategies
with people are you looking at,here's what we can do to
optimize what you already have?
Like, how does that really workwhen you're working with someone
else?
Travis Albritton (26:37):
So it's always hard to well, especially when
you start talking aboutpodcasting and setting
expectations. Talking aboutthings you can't control, it's
very hard to go viral as apodcast, right, is that
incremental drip of growth istypically the is typically the
norm. And so the first thingthat I do, because I have the
luxury of working withbusinesses, is I encourage them
(26:58):
to find a key performanceindicator or KPI that is not
downloads. So what would makethis podcast worthwhile to you,
if it never got super big. Andtypically, that is some kind of
business results. So whetherit's, you're in a b2b space, so
this is gonna be mainly aninterview podcast, and you're
gonna interview prospects, andhere's the framing we're going
(27:19):
to use where it's reallyvaluable content, but it's going
to give you a reason to be insales mode and build those
relationships. And so it's like,okay, well, this year, you spent
XML producing your podcast, yougain this many clients, what's
the lifetime value of thoseclients is that more than what
you spend on the podcast, great,has any downloads an episode
doesn't matter, you made money,right. And so, So tying the pie,
(27:42):
if you're trying to play thepodcast game to be popular, and
to be really big, it's veryhard. It's not like tick tock,
where you can have 15 seconds offame. And that's very ephemeral.
So, you know, good luck tryingto get him to come back. But
it's very hard to create a viralpodcast. So it's one first
creating something that'sworthwhile on its own. And then
(28:03):
tying it to a result outside ofthe podcast itself, is really
helpful. Because the thing thatmakes podcasting really unique
and special is the depth of theconnection you have with your
audiences completely andparalleled in the internet
space, you know, so like, ticktock, three seconds of
attention, Facebook video, threeseconds, as someone's scrolling
past to see the video of theirneighbor's kids, which is why
(28:23):
they're actually there, they'renot there to see your ad.
YouTube, three minutes isreally, really good. You can get
someone to watch three minutesof your video before they go and
find a cat video. The podcastsare listening to like 90% of a
45 minute conversation, likethat's just crazy, like people
won't give you that muchattention anywhere else on the
internet. And so if you can thenleverage that into a connection
(28:45):
with somebody, and then you haveanother way of serving them
outside of the podcast itself,that can then be a vehicle to
accelerate the other thingsyou're doing. And so talking
about setting expectations arehow to make them happy with it.
It's how do we connect this tosomething else that really
matters to you? And how do wemake the podcast something
that's the favorite part of whatyou do? So this is something you
look forward to being able to doyou feel like it positive
(29:07):
positively reflects you and yourvalues and you're like excited
to share it and be like look,I'm an apple podcast. Isn't that
amazing? There's my name likethere's something to be said for
that. And and then again, justlike tying it back to a really
tangible result that's not well,we don't have 5000 downloads per
episode yet so let's just callit quits
Krystal Proffitt (29:29):
you just saying that makes me so sad?
Because I've heard it so manytimes. I've seen it I've seen
people just quit and I'm justlike, I don't know if it's
burnout. That is one option. Idon't know if it's because they
got frustrated that they aren'tgetting 10,000 downloads per
episode and I don't know like wedon't have we need an exit
(29:49):
interview for creators. This issomething we should we should do
this Travis let's like keep ustogether. We need to be like why
did you quit like what'shappening? We need the exit
interview like why you Quit yourjob. Because it just it makes me
so sad. And I think that themajority of it is unrealistic
expectations and the fact thatthey aren't living up to this
(30:11):
standard of what people areputting out there, because this
is another interesting thing isTravis knows a lot of behind the
scenes of the podcasting space.
And I mean, I just remember whenwe would use to talk about
numbers, and you're like, thosepeople really don't have those
numbers, or that's not, that'snot. We're not gonna call
anybody out, but it's typicallynot as much. So if somebody's
(30:34):
just getting their podcast upand running, can you tell us a
little bit about? Like, whatwould you expect? Like if it was
a brand new client, theylaunched this month? What would
you tell them to expect?
Travis Albritton (30:47):
So with a brand new clients, if they have
an email list that factors in ifthey have social media presence,
that's a factor. But we'retypically aiming to get to 100
downloads an episode as quicklyas possible, because then that
puts you in like the top 25% ofany podcasts. So right there,
you can use that and say, like,listen, we have traction, people
(31:07):
are continuing to come back tolisten to it, we have something
here. Let's capitalize it. Let'scontinue to grow it. And then
you start to look at thatincremental growth. But it
really depends on the niche,too. Like, there's so many
factors. If you're creating atrue crime podcast, yeah, you
can get 5000 downloads anepisode easily. But it's hard to
build a business off of a truecrime podcast, unless you're
like a recruiter for the locallaw enforcement office, right?
(31:30):
Like there's, there's only somany ways you can monetize that
outside of sponsorships. And solike, you know, when I have a
client, it's like, hey, we dobusiness PR for small
businesses. Like that's a veryniche within the PR agency
industry, for marketing online.
So when you get for yourdownloads an episode, that's
like, amazing, yeah, becauseyou're the only one that exists
(31:51):
in the entire world. You're theonly podcast that does this in
the whole world, you know, 400people coming to listen to you.
Like, that's amazing. Next year,let's see if we can get it to
600 700 800. But we're gonnatalking in terms of years, it's
like, this time next year, wheredo we want to be? And how do we
get there? And how much money dowe want to spend to promote it?
And how much time do you want tospend going on other podcasts to
promote your show? And so allthese things are factors. But
(32:14):
for me, I've seen like, if youcan get very quickly to 100,
just like leveraging all thechannels they already have, even
if it's like, let's hold acontest with your company, and
have everybody listened andleave a review and give somebody
a $50 amazon gift card, likethere's all kinds of things you
can do to get to 100. And thenfrom there, it's just sticking
with it long enough to basicallyOutlast everyone else in your
(32:35):
niche. Yeah, is the secret towinning the long game. Right. So
while I was Buzzsprout, welaunched buzz cast, which is a
podcast about podcasting in thepodcasting industry. I've been
replaced by Jordan, who's farsuperior to me as a host. So
it's much better for it. Butwhen we started that podcast, it
was like, we had no goal for itother than we're just going to
(32:56):
make something for Buzzsproutcustomers. That's it. And then
it became like one of the topfive podcasts about podcasting
in the world. Just because wedid it for four years. And so if
you do anything for four years,especially in a medium, like
podcasting, or anything online,where four years is an eternity,
like, yeah, you're gonna be muchmore established than anyone
else. So it's really just aboutstarting, and then sticking with
(33:18):
it beyond when everyone elsedropped out. And so if you can
do that, then you can be thenumber one go to person for what
you talk about. So that's wherethe patience comes in.
Krystal Proffitt (33:29):
I was gonna say we just That was a
beautiful, like, circle backaround to discipline. And I feel
like that's a theme. This is atheme. Yes, definitely. It. It's
funny, because this is thelesson I always have to learn.
I'm so impatient in everything,especially when it comes to my
business. Because I am one ofthose people. It's not so much
that I want to, like, grow andscale necessarily. It's more
(33:51):
about this is hard. When you'redoing something new, or
especially people listening,they're just getting started.
They're like, Oh, I don't knowhow, what is auto leveling? What
are like, I don't understandwhat all these buttons are in
Audacity, or Hindenburg orwherever you're editing and
you're like you're frustrated.
You want to just give everythingover to an expert. And then
you're like, oh, I don't know ifI can afford that, because I'm
(34:12):
just getting started. So it'slike this weird, messy middle
that you go through and to heartraffic. As I say, You need
patience. You're just like you.
I know you're screaming at usright now. But the truth is, if
you can just stick with it. Overtime, you go back and you look
at all these incredible thingsthat you've done like Travis I
(34:34):
mean, I don't even know if I'vetold you this, but I have over
1000 episodes at this point fromdoing the potty report doing the
profit podcast and y'all Ididn't do anything extra
special. I just kept showingjust kept showing up and
talking. And so it's like allthat incremental growth that
Travis was talking about buildsand builds and builds over time.
(34:56):
And it's just it's soincredible. I love podcasting,
and I travel So as to, and I'mcurious as you were looking at
your business strategy, so notfor your clients, but for what
you're doing. Is there any onepiece? Well, first of all, I
have to ask you anotherquestion. Because, yes, a little
controversial. Okay, we're gonnaget into the controversial weeds
(35:16):
here. How do you feel aboutshownotes? Do you do show notes
on your website? Do you just dothem on? Like, because people
are always asking me thisquestion. And I'm curious what
your thoughts are.
Travis Albritton (35:29):
So there's two different ways to do show notes.
There is bullet point referencesfor things you talked about in
the podcast with a couple ofsentences to summarize. So
you're giving people if they'retrying to decide which episode
to listen to, and they're pokingaround, you want to give them
enough to know, okay, this iswhat they're gonna talk about.
And then here are the links forthe things they talked about.
There's that version of the shownotes. Then if you want to do
(35:51):
the SEO play, you write a blogpost, you say, not just am I
writing a blog post, like moreshownotes. But what is the
keyword traffic? I'm trying totap into? How am I optimizing
this page on my website for thatkeyword traffic to show up
organically on the first page ofGoogle? And then what is the
blog post that I need to writearound this question to the
search term? To make it the bestanswer on the internet? When
(36:14):
somebody has this question? Oh,by the way, there's an embed
code where I have my podcastplayer. That's the other way to
do show notes. So so it's notjust about like more show notes,
it has to be with that strategybeing the primary driver. And
then that also informs how youchoose your topics. And so if
you're using that strategy, andyou want to do blog content, and
(36:35):
you want that to start drivingtraction traffic for you, you
start with the blog, actually.
And then you reverse engineerwhat you should talk about on
the podcast, where then youcould write the blog that's
going to get the traffic but youstart with, what are people
looking for online? That I cananswer better than anyone else?
And then how do I create writtencontent to answer that question,
and then I'm going to create apodcast out of that. And then if
you're recording video, then I'mgonna put it on YouTube. But you
(36:56):
start first with what is thestream of traffic I'm tapping
into and how do I do that to thebest of my abilities. That's
where more shownotes actuallymakes sense. But if you're just
doing an audio podcast, anduploading to Apple and Spotify,
you don't need to write a blog.
Krystal Proffitt (37:13):
Okay, y'all heard it from Travis. I knew
this is what he was going tosay. But I wanted to say I told
y'all I told y'all this is theway because this is something
that I've I have heard talkingabout the exit interview of
burnout, pod podcasters. Andcontent creators. People tell me
all the time, they're like, Idon't podcast anymore, because
they can't do show notes. AndI'm like, you can't publish
something and say, This is whattoday's episode is about period
(37:36):
Publish. And they're like, Well,no, I have to do the whole
website, I have to do the, theit's got to be this. And it's
got to be SEO. And I'm like, Whosaid like you don't have to just
because 1000 Other podcastersare the big podcasters that you
follow that have a team of 20people behind them? Like,
because they do all that itdoesn't mean you have to. And so
(37:57):
I just I love your perspectiveon this. And I think that it's
super helpful. Especiallybecause there's a lot of people
that are either just gettingstarted with all of content
creation, or they're looking atadding another piece to whether
it's YouTube or an email list orany of those. Do you foresee
adding anything? Are we going tosee Tik Tok soon from you,
Travis? Like, is there anythingfun coming up that you're going
(38:20):
to be adding to honestmarketing, we have to know
Travis Albritton (38:23):
so so here's everything that I do for the
podcast. And so a lot of it isjust tapping into organic
traffic. But then also talkingabout paid acquisition
strategies as well. Soorganically, so I record a video
with the audio. So that allowsme to put it on YouTube. And
podcast directories like Applepodcasts and Spotify. YouTube is
(38:45):
becoming a much more popularplatform for people to listen to
podcasts on. You know, I thinkEdison Research came out and
said, it's actually the numberone podcast listening platform,
which everyone in the industryis like, That can't be true in.
They're like, well, that's whatpeople said. So what are you
gonna do? And so I think peoplehave started to figure out like,
Oh, like this is that we'reactually just recording a talk
show. But instead of Late Nightwith Jimmy Fallon, it's Travis
(39:06):
and Krystal talking aboutmarketing, right. And so if you
can capture video, somehow,whether it's Zoom video, which
we're using now, or otherplatforms, like Riverside, or
you're recording in the sameroom, and you just set up your
phone on a tripod and hitrecord, having video that you
can use on YouTube gives you onemore place for people to
discover your content. And like,really, tangibly, the way this
(39:27):
looks is you post a video, andnothing happens. You post
another video and nothinghappens. You do that 10 times.
And then you have one video andyou're like, how does that have
100 views and these other havefour? Then you look and you're
like, oh, YouTube showed that to20,000 people didn't ask me for
permission. That is did it. Andso now that's 20,000 new people
that were exposed to livecontent that would never have
(39:50):
done had that experience inApple podcasts or Spotify. That
just does not happen. And soYouTube gives you
discoverability where platformslike Apple podcasts and Spotify
really struggle because YouTubeis a search engine first and
foremost, and so I think havingthat is a really easy way to
repurpose your content is reallyvaluable. Especially if you're
doing zoom interviews, just hitrecord, record the video, upload
(40:12):
it to YouTube. Now you haveanother place to distribute your
content. I'm not a big fan ofthe audiogram thing. Because
people go to YouTube to watchvideos of people's faces not to
see a picture with a squigglyline. That's just my two cents.
And then figure out whatplatforms are doing and leaning
into right now. It's short formvertical videos. Well, guess
what, you just have 30 minutesor 40 minutes of content, I bet
(40:35):
there's two or three little 22ndclips you can pull out of there,
reformat, and then upload as ashort. And the you know, I have
a relatively new YouTubechannel. And I'm driving it all
organically, just to like testand experiment on things that I
use for my clients. And so Ithink since September probably
had, like 5000 views on thewhole channel. Well, I had one
(40:58):
short that did 1100 In the spanof 48 hours. And it was not the
one I expected. Really that onethat's the one you thought was
great. What about this one thatI put a bunch of time and effort
into four views, right? Sorather than try and figure out
what the algorithm once justgive it everything and let it
choose. But once you start tothen repurpose content you
(41:19):
already have, you're not tryingto reinvent the wheel. And
that's what creates, that's whencontent marketing becomes really
valuable as you have a corepiece of content, that you're
able to pull bits and pieces outof, and repurpose in different
places. So that's what I doorganically is really a YouTube
focus with the content withYouTube shorts. And then
obviously distributing it toaudio platforms. Now I still
(41:40):
prefer that people subscribe onApple podcasts and Spotify and
overcast and those kinds ofplaces. Because it's a lot
stickier people subscribe toyoutube channels all the time,
and then never watch any morevideos. But when you subscribe
to our podcast, you typicallylisten to most of the episodes.
And the retention is still waybetter. Because there's less
distractions. There's not like awhole sidebar of other videos
tempting you to go and watchsomething else. But YouTube is a
(42:02):
really great platform fordistributing and really as a
marketing arm to get the wordout there about what you're
doing. And then I will, I willfind unique sponsorship
opportunities. There's the triedand true stuff like you can pay
for a podcast promotion spot ina third party app, like podcast
addict is typically the best oneto start with, that tends to be
cheaper, overcast, pod bean tolet you do it, Pocket Casts, and
(42:27):
in some of these other you startgetting to like multiple $1,000
for an ad spot. But they'reextremely effective. Like it's
much more effective than runningFacebook ads or Google ads,
because you're advertising topeople that are podcast
listeners that are listening topodcasts. And so they're they're
not trying to watch tiktoks.
They're trying to listen topodcasts. And so it's like, oh,
well, here's another one I mightbe interested in. So that's one
really great way to do it. Theother way that I've been trying
(42:50):
and experimenting with and whoknows if this would be a good
long term strategy is findinguntapped groups online of people
that could be my ideal listener,and sponsoring those groups. So
I recently just finished up asponsorship campaign where I
sponsored a Facebook group of3000 people for a month. And it
was for sponsored posts and forsponsored emails. And it was the
(43:11):
first time this person had everdone that. And it was relatively
inexpensive. Because it's like,Hey, this is money I didn't have
before. You're just saying if Itell people to go and listen to
your podcast, like you'll giveme money, that's great. Like,
let's make this happen. Yeah.
And so also like looking forcreative ways that are outside
of the mainstream, to just say,How do I get my content in front
(43:32):
of people that would enjoylistening to it, and do it in a
way where it's very easy forthem to take that next step. So
all the posts had links to theepisode, for instance. If you
can get creative, you can findsome really great opportunities
to get exposure for relativelylittle. The problem with best
practices is everyone knowsthem. Everybody does them, they
become more expensive. So likewhen I first started doing
(43:54):
overcast ads, you could buy amonth for 60 bucks. And now
depending on your category, it'slike $1,800 for Oh my gosh. So
if only it's like I was what?
Following somebody on Instagram.
And they were joking. Like thebiggest mistake in my life was
not being able to buy foreclosedproperties in 2008 when I was in
(44:15):
eighth grade. No, it's like thetiming is everything. Oh my
gosh, right? Yes, it's like holyit could have been a landlord in
2009 you have access to all thisfree cash flow to that I was in
middle school. So you can't goback. But you can find those
next opportunities and and tryand capitalize on those.
Krystal Proffitt (44:34):
Yeah, and I think that with you know what
you're doing in the honestmarketing and being so
transparent, I think like Iforesee and I hope and I pray
that this trend just continueswith people looking for ethical
marketers people that are nottrying to swindle them and
people that are just listeningto their spidey senses more
(44:56):
about like all the like, we'regonna dupe these people. Well,
we're gonna do this, we're gonnado that. And I think that your
show and what you're doing yourplatform is just going to
continue to grow, because I'msuper supportive of all of this.
And I think that everybodythat's listening is you're gonna
have some new listeners afterthis, I'm just gonna go ahead
and put that out there. Becausethere's people listening.
They're like, Oh my gosh, Idon't like this the gross like,
(45:19):
icky stuff that people aredoing. And Travis is someone
that I've learned from for along time. So all y'all please
go check out his show. And ifsomeone's listening and are
interested in working with you,like, what would that look like?
Do they need to contact you?
Like, tell us all the things?
Travis Albritton (45:32):
Sure, yeah. So So I work primarily with
businesses that are multiple,six figures, seven, eight
figures in annual revenue, anddo just full service podcast
production. And so if that'syou, or you're connected to
someone that feels like, hey,they would really benefit from
that, then just go to honestpodcast.com. I'm building a new
website. So right now, it's anold website, but in the future,
it'll be really epic andawesome. You'll just have to
(45:54):
take my word for it. Be honest.
Yeah, I patients is coming. Youknow, it's like, I could be
super stressed out that it's nothere yet. Or just just let it
happen when it happens, youknow, c'est la vie. But yeah,
and I think the first step thatI always go through with a
potential client is, what areyou hoping to get out of this?
And if you can answer that,really, tangibly, and say, This
(46:14):
is what I'm hoping to accomplishfrom this podcast, then that's
where you start. And then if itmakes sense for me to produce
the podcast for you, then westart talking about that. If it
doesn't, then I say, Here,here's the way I would do it, if
I was you, and here's how youcan save a bunch of money by
going and doing it yourself orusing these other tools. So
that'd be the best place forpeople to go if they want to
(46:35):
potentially work with me, or, orsee if I can help them be
honest. podcasts.com.
Krystal Proffitt (46:40):
Okay, perfect.
And we're gonna link to that inthe show notes. And Travis, this
is so fun. But we're not doneyet. We're not done right?
Because I have some rapid firequestions. And I'm not going to
ask that you're up for them. Youdon't even have the option.
You're just you have to answerthese. But what's fun, is I'm
going to go back and listen toour old one, because it's the
same questions. I want to see ifyour answers have changed. They
probably are on the show. Sookay, so the first one is, what
(47:05):
piece of advice would you giveto a brand new podcaster or
content creator,
Travis Albritton (47:12):
have fun.
Like, just enjoy the act ofmaking content. Because if you
can find joy in what you'redoing, you'll keep doing it. If
you become too gory and goaloriented or results oriented too
quickly, then it steals the joyout of everything you're doing.
So make sure you have fun, nomatter what you're doing.
Krystal Proffitt (47:31):
That's great.
Okay, the next one is what isthe dream podcast you would love
to be on? And who is your dreampodcast? Guest.
Travis Albritton (47:44):
So I think dream podcast to be on. Yeah,
that's a tough one. That's atough one. So I would probably
say right now, it would be theTim Ferriss show. Because I'm
just a sucker for all thingsjust like life hacking. I talked
about being patients, but I alsolove Four Hour Workweek, you
(48:06):
know, so trying to figure thattension out balance. Yeah, that
balance, right. I do have analter ego. And so but that would
be just phenomenal. To be ableto pick his brain and ask him
the questions, I would want toask somebody who is always
thinking about how to optimizeevery piece of their life, even
their personal life. And so, andI think he's just a phenomenal
(48:29):
interviewer. So I'd love to beon his show. And I would still
love to have Neil deGrasse Tysonas my guest. I'm pretty pretty
confident.
Krystal Proffitt (48:35):
Last time that I was like, Yeah, I don't know
if it was Tim Ferriss, but Iknow that that was the dream
guest.
Travis Albritton (48:41):
Yeah, so Neil deGrasse Tyson hasn't happened
yet. Just gotta be patient oneday, it'll happen. I mean,
having a podcast aboutmarketing, I'm not, my ads
aren't great. So I'd have topivot into something else. But
though maybe
Krystal Proffitt (48:56):
you have to create the podcast that you're
like, okay. You're like SEO?
You're like, Okay, which one? IsNeil going to be like? Yes,
that's the podcast, just maybeyou should call it like the
like, searching for new. Like,wait, what is PR people are
like, what is that? Are youinvolved? I don't know if I get
you in some trouble. Maybe wealready do that.
Travis Albritton (49:16):
Maybe we'll see. We'll see.
Krystal Proffitt (49:19):
Okay, and then my last question is, do you
consider yourself aperfectionist?
Travis Albritton (49:25):
No, I used to.
But the problem with being aperfectionist is that you cry,
like my child in the background.
Because Because the problem isyou can never live up to your
own expectations if you'realways trying to be perfect. And
so going back to like havingfun. Unless you can just say,
this is good enough. And I'mgonna like go on with the rest
(49:45):
of my life. Like my life doesnot have to be consumed with
this piece of content of thispodcast episode. There's a lot
of freedom that comes from that.
And just knowing like, I'vecreated the thing that's good
enough within the parametersthat I've given it, specifically
time parameters, and say, I'mnot gonna say spend five hours
recording an episode, I'm goingto put some time into the
outline, and I'm gonna give it ashot. And if it's terrible, I'll
(50:05):
do it again. But if it's like,no, this is going to help
somebody, I don't have to worryabout it being perfect. And so
once you let go of this myththat you can create the perfect
thing, because you can't, thenthat allows you to actually
enjoy creating the best thingyou can right now, knowing it's
only gonna get better, the moreyou do it.
Krystal Proffitt (50:27):
I feel like you gave us so many gifts in
this whole episode like I am.
Again, I'm so grateful I startedthis with telling you, I'm so
grateful. But I truly am sograteful for the mentorship that
you've offered to me and all theamazing things that you've
shared with the audience today,because this is people are gonna
go back and listen to thoselike, like, what did Travis say
(50:47):
about this? Like, I want to goback and see and then they're
gonna go listen to your show,right? Please go listen to
honest marketing. And go checkout all the cool things that
Travis is doing. But thank youso much for coming on the show
today.
Travis Albritton (50:59):
This was great. Thanks for having me. It
was a blast.
Krystal Proffitt (51:02):
Like I said in the very beginning, I love a
reunion, it was so good to catchup with Travis. I love what he
is doing. I think that there'sbeen a lot bigger push in the
last probably 24 months forpeople to take a look at
marketing in general, and havean approach that's authentic,
(51:25):
it's honest. And it's somethingthat people can feel good about.
Because at the end of the day,you want to feel good about the
interaction you're having withyour audience with your
potential customers. And I loveTravis's example. You know, the
story he told about doingsomething and somebody's like,
calling him out on it. Like thatdidn't feel good to me. And so
(51:47):
if you're brand new to contentcreation, or your brand new
online business owner, that Ireally encourage you to listen
to the feedback from youraudience. And maybe you're doing
something that's like anindustry best practice. But if
in your gut, you're like, Ah, Ijust don't know that I feel good
about that. Then take a stepback and like be pretty self
(52:07):
aware, to know when you're doingsomething out of integrity, or
you're in integrity, and thenyou'll be able to make that
final executive decision ofwhether you want to follow a
path that has been taught to youor something that even one of
your industry peers has said,this is the way to do it. If
(52:28):
it's against your morals andvalues, then don't do it. Like
take a step back, practice onhis marketing practice the
things that Travis and I havetalked about, and just really be
true to who you are. And the waythat you want to have the
interaction with your audience.
Just be fully within line withwho you want to be like the
(52:50):
person that you want to be outin the world and what you're
putting forward. So please golisten to Travis's podcast, go
to the show notes,KrystalProffitt.com/episode382
For everything that we talkedabout here today, and to go
check out Travis this podcastbecause it's really good. It's
really, really good. And ISorry, I shouldn't laugh about
(53:12):
that. Travis like, I'm surprisedI knew that whatever you're
doing next was going to beincredible. I kind of giggle a
little bit because I love yourstories. And I love the way that
you put examples out into theworld. And I hope that you
listening to this podcast, youwill love Travis's podcast just
as much. But again, go to theshow notes
(53:35):
KrystalProffitt.com/episode382And go check out Travis's show.
But that's all I have for youtoday. So if this is your first
time tuning in, make sure youhit the subscribe or follow
button wherever you're listeningto this podcast. And as always
remember, keep it up. We allhave to start somewhere
I love a reunion. Right?
Like, did you love the friendsreunion that they did? I mean,
it was so good. I loved how, youknow, it was so nostalgic. I
cried. I mean, come on, I'm soembarrassed. But whatever, I
cried at just so many differentthings, because the actors were
overwhelmed by things. And itwas just it was so beautiful to
(00:24):
see them revisit this nostalgic,I mean pop culture phenomenon
that lives in American historyof like the greatest show of all
time, let's just be honest,like, it's so incredible. I love
friends, love, love, love it.
And I just love the idea ofthese people that haven't seen
(00:44):
each other in a while gettingback together and reminiscing
about all the good old days.
Well, that's a little bit abouttoday's guests. And I'm so
excited to share with youbecause we have someone that has
literally been a part of mypodcasting journey from day one.
And we have such a special bondlike such a cool connection. And
(01:07):
I'm so grateful that TravisAllbritton is coming back on the
show today. So Travis has beensomebody, like I said, from the
very beginning, I remember whenI first got started, and y'all
can go back and listen to I'mgonna link in the show notes to
the original interview that Idid with Travis. And I want you
(01:28):
to go listen to Krystal likebaby podcast or baby content
creator. And I had all thequestions for him. And I
actually, I'm laughing at itbecause I remember when the
Facebook group for Buzzsproutwas around 2000 people. And
Travis was the one that was, youknow, admitting people answering
(01:51):
questions like he was runningthe whole thing. He was the head
of content at Buzzsprout for along time, like you will
instantaneously know His voice.
If you have listened to anyepisodes of Buzz cast, which is
Buzz sprouts podcast, or watchtheir content on YouTube. You're
(02:12):
gonna like oh my gosh, yeah, Iknow exactly who Travis is. But
Travis is actually doingsomething brand new, that I am
so thrilled about whenever hetold me what he was doing. I was
like, this is incredible foryou, and I just cannot wait to
share it. But Travis is nowtoday the host of honest
marketing, which is a podcastdedicated to teaching business
(02:34):
owners and entrepreneurs provenstrategies to grow their
business without selling theirsoul. He also is the founder of
honest podcast, a full servicepodcast production agency that
specializes in high qualityvideo podcasts for distribution
on YouTube, Apple podcast andSpotify. So without further ado,
(02:55):
here is my conversation withTravis. Let's get right to it.
Welcome to the Prophet podcastwhere we teach you how to start
launch and market your contentwith confidence. I'm your host,
Krystal Proffitt, and I'm soexcited that you're here. Thanks
for hanging out with me today.
Because if you've been trying tofigure out the world of content
creation, this is the show thatwill help be your time saving
(03:17):
shortcut. So let's get right toit, shall we? All right, Prophet
podcast listeners, we have avery special guest today we have
Travis in the house. Welcome tothe show, Travis.
Travis Albritton (03:35):
Thanks for having me. Excited to be here.
Krystal Proffitt (03:38):
Yeah, so this is actually I was trying to
think back. You guessed it onthe show when it was the rookie
life like way back when and thenyou came on the show. Again, one
of those the profit podcast Iwas thinking or maybe I'm
thinking it could have been, Idon't know, we're gonna link to
all the previous episodes ofTravis because he is somebody
(03:58):
that you've been there since thebeginning of my journey, like in
a really profound way. And I'mgonna embarrass you for a second
because I can because it'sbecause it's my show and I'm in
the host teachers point. Okay.
Travis helped me tremendously inthe very beginning. So we're
going to make us feel old, this2018 When I got started, Travis
(04:19):
answered all of my annoyingquestions with so much patience
and so much just generosity. AndI have to say thank you so much,
because we would not be sittinghere today, talking about all
the fun things we're going totalk about. So thank you so much
for always encouraging me andbeing part of this journey. So I
couldn't let this episode go anyfarther without getting that off
(04:41):
my chest. So sincerely, thankyou so much.
Travis Albritton (04:45):
Oh, that means a lot. Thank you so much,
Krystal, glad glad that I canjust be one of the people on the
path to your greatness and all
Krystal Proffitt (04:54):
your greatness to your world domination. So
happy well If anybody islistening, and you're like,
Travis voice sounds reallyfamiliar, it's because you would
have heard him here on the show,or on other podcast, or possibly
a YouTube channel that you'reall familiar with, because I
(05:14):
reference it all the time. ButTravis is coming to us, not for
Buzzsprout. Today, Travis iscoming on a brand new adventure
that he has started. And Icannot wait to talk all about
it, because he has a brand newshow called Honest marketing.
And I just have to know, wheredid this come from, I have a
(05:35):
feeling as a marketer, there wasa deep need that you were
seeing. And I just, I have toknow, I have to know where this
idea came from.
Travis Albritton (05:42):
Sure. So I'll share that the fun piece of the
story, and then I'll break downthe strategy of it as well.
Awesome, because I know that'llbe really relevant and helpful
for all your listeners. So Ithink, being in the marketing
space, and doing contentmarketing for Buzzsprout, for
four years, doing digitalmarketing for six or seven, you
see a lot of advice. And you seea lot of trends, okay. And so a
(06:06):
lot of the advice tends to betowards the entrepreneur,
because just practically, that'sthe person that's spending money
on the software or the tool, thecourse to get the results they
want, which is how do we makemore money online. But rarely is
the advice, what's in the bestinterests of your customers of
the people buying that course ofthe people going through your
funnel, experiencing yourwebsite. And I was just kind of
(06:31):
like fed up that there wasn'tmore resources out there talking
about how to actually mark itwith integrity, because it's
totally possible. And youactually make more money, if
people feel like they can trustyou, and that you're not just
trying to screw them over allthe time. And so that's where
the idea for honest marketingcame from was, let's just start
highlighting the people that aredoing this the right way, that
are building businesses theright way on top of integrity
(06:53):
and values, and really breakingdown the systems and processes
that businesses can use. Andmarketers can use in order to
get similar results that theywould in a performance or you
know, pay per click model, butwith a more holistic service
oriented approach towards yourclients and your customers. And
so you're thinking about yourbrand, and what people know you
(07:14):
for and the reputation you havein the space. And you're
thinking about how to actuallydo good in the world with your
podcasts. It's not just aboutmaking money, but it's about
doing something that'sworthwhile. And so that's where
the spark came from, just likethis desire to say, You know
what we're going to, we're goingto shift the narrative here,
it's not just going to be abouthow do we increase your opt in
rate by 2%, by creating somefake scarcity and a countdown
(07:37):
timer that doesn't do anythingto try and get people to get you
the credit card before they evenknow that they weren't the
thing? Like, let's just get ridof all that and go back to how
do you solve real problems forpeople in their lives, and help
them feel seen and heard, andthat they can trust you to take
care of them in the journey,like, let's just get back to
that. And so that's really whatit is. But in a online world, so
(07:59):
breaking down content marketing,digital marketing, paid ads,
campaigns, all that stuff.
Strategically, why it makessense for me to do this podcast
because being at Buzzsprout, andbe in the podcasting world, you
know, there's never a lack ofthings to talk about, especially
if you love to hear yourselftalk. And so, so it's like, are
you looking at me when you saidthat? I was looking at the
(08:21):
camera, because I know that'swhat I'm supposed to be doing.
You know, that's, that's whereyou look, you look at the
camera, you don't. So butpodcasters love to talk, it's
just it's why we do it. Right?
If you didn't like to hearyourself talk, you wouldn't do a
podcast. But so so my newbusiness venture that you kind
(08:42):
of teased, I launched a podcastproduction agency called Honest
podcasts. And it's helpingvalues oriented business owners
and entrepreneurs create contentmarketing that aligns with our
business values that helps driveperformance for their business.
And so that is what I do as anagency, that's my service in the
marketplace is your business,you want to make an epic
(09:04):
podcast, I can do that for you.
So then the podcast was not onlya way for me to lead with my
values, and to attract peoplethat would resonate with that
they're like, yeah, like, Ishouldn't have to sell my soul
in order to make money online,like there has to be a better
way. And so maybe there can be aconnection there. But then, by
using it as a platform tointerview potential clients,
(09:24):
then it's much easier to getsomeone who's in a position at a
company that would be interestedin in service like mine, to give
you an hour of their time. It'svery difficult to do in like a
cold call or cold email sense tobe like, Hey, I do this great
thing. Can I get an hour on yourcalendar? It's like, no, I got I
got my own life. I got all thisstuff going on. But if I extend
(09:44):
an olive branch and say I wouldlove to bring you on to talk
about these three things that Iknow you're an expert in and
highlight your expertise andwhat your business does to my
audience. And this is the valuesthat we share in the connection
that we have Now we have anentire hour to build rapport,
and to build a relationship. Andnow I have your contact info.
And we've actually had adialogue and a conversation. So
(10:07):
now if it doesn't make sense,and you're like, actually, this
has been a great experience, Ihave enjoyed being on your
podcast. What would it look likefor you to do that for us? Like,
what would a podcast for ourcompany look like? It's a very
natural next step. Sostrategically, using the
podcast, not just a way ofserving people, which it
certainly is, and most of thepeople that listen to it will
never give me money. And I'mreally excited about that. But
(10:29):
it's also a great vehicle toconnect with people that would
otherwise be unreachable as away of also growing the business
as well. So that's how thepodcast came together.
Krystal Proffitt (10:41):
So there y'all go, you have his whole strategy
there. It's all honest, it is sostraightforward. But this is the
thing that I love about thismodel is because you're not
trying to like bait and switchpeople and say, Hey, we should
do this. Like it. I think that alot of people, especially for my
show, and I'm sure you'veexperienced this too, having run
(11:02):
several podcast, it's like, youcan feel that slime Enos and a
pitch where it's like, oh, Iwould love to come on your show,
or we'd love to have you on ourshow. And this and that. So I
think that this is such anincredible approach, if executed
properly. And Travis just gaveyou all the things it's all
about just bleeding withintegrity. But I have to ask, is
(11:24):
there like this one awfulexperience that you ever had
with marketing that like reallycomes to mind that you're like,
Oh, if I ever had a platform oran opportunity to write this
wrong? Like, is there anythingthat's coming to mind? Oh, 100%.
Travis Albritton (11:39):
And I actually share this in the first episode
that I do for the show. When Ibreak down my laws of honest
marketing, and and one of thelaws of honest marketing, which
I totally made up, but you know,the written in semi stone, and
if other people take it, Itrademarked it. So you heard it
here is, is actually a riff onthe PETA pledge People for the
(12:01):
Ethical Treatment of Animals.
And it's, can you say, No,humans were harmed in the
marketing of your product orservice? Can you actually stand
behind that and say, that is thestandard we hold ourselves to,
not just does our product helppeople, but in the process of
learning about what we do. Andin the process of becoming a
customer, can we say that we didnot harm them in any particular
(12:22):
way, lean into a trauma in theirlife, to twist the knife and
say, here's a big problem, let'smake it bigger. So you'll give
us money. And for me, the storyyou're referring to that you
kind of intuitively knew wasthere, I was doing a launch, I
was doing a product launch. Soalso, in my past, I had an
(12:42):
online teaching ministry, I wasselling courses, memberships,
coaching, helping leaders startonline ministries, and I was
doing a big launch. And so I hadseveral upsells built into it,
it's like, well, if you wantthis program, you might also
like this one. And you mightalso like this one, this is a
way of helping continue to servepeople and give them more
resources to help them with whatthey wanted to do next. But I
would use some of these bestpractices, industry best
(13:06):
practices for maximizing yourprofit...
Krystal Proffitt (13:10):
For everybody listening, he just put quotes
around best practices,
Travis Albritton (13:13):
"best practices"
Krystal Proffitt (13:14):
We have to make sure that that was...
Travis Albritton (13:15):
yeah - air quotes, best practices. And it's
like, Hey, if you just like makethis change, you'll get this
much more money. And I'm like,that sounds great. Why would I
not want that. So at the end ofthat launch, I immediately had
people turn around and say, Ineed to cancel, I want my money
back. Not because I don'tbelieve in the product and what
(13:36):
you're doing. But because of howit made me feel to buy it.
Because of the pressure I feltto make a quick decision in the
moment on something I didn'tfeel fully informed about. And
if that is how the rest of thisrelationship is going to be,
then this isn't going to be afit for me. And that really
stung, right? Because here I amtrying to help people,
(13:58):
especially in like a Christianspace, just like, there's a lot
of weight attached to that. Andthey're feeling like I'm being
manipulative of their emotionsin order to get more money. And
so so that's really stuck withme. And I think that was really
a key pivot point for me where Isaid, you know, what, there
actually is a point in timewhere it's not worth it anymore.
(14:19):
Where that extra couple dollars.
It's just not worth it to me,because there are other things
that are more important than howprofitable lunch can be, or how
profitable a marketing campaigncould be. But I actually want
people to have a positiveexperience of me, and to have a
positive brand affinity, if youcan call it that, where whenever
they think about me, it's alwaysabout Travis is here to help.
(14:42):
And that's the only impressionthey get and there's no sense of
manipulation of coercion of justlike persuading someone to make
a decision is not good for them,but just good for me. Like I
never want any of that to evenbe hinted at in anything that I
do. But that came fromexperience that came from a
really sour taste in my mouth ofwow, this is what these
(15:03):
incremental decisions made withthe best of intent have led me
to let me get as far away fromthat as I possibly can.
Krystal Proffitt (15:13):
Yeah, Ah, man, I'm so sorry that you had to go
through that. Because I'mimagining I've had a similar
experience. And there's avisceral like full body when
you're reading these words fromsomeone and you know that that
wasn't your initial intention.
And you had no, no way of everthinking that that's what was
happening on the back end of foryour customer. And then you see
(15:33):
it. And then you look ateverything in hindsight, and
you're like, oh, my gosh, like,that's exactly what I did. And
you could say, I'm sorry, 1000times. And of course, it's
probably not going to matter tothat person. But I think that
you're doing such an incrediblething and taking it and making
sure that other people know,there is a better way. And
there's another way to do it.
(15:55):
But I'm curious if in lookingback, like let's say you go back
to that launch, and someone'slistening right now, and they're
just getting started. Andthey're like, well, Travis, I
don't know if I've ever done anyof these things. But I know for
sure I want to avoid them. Doyou have any tips for if
someone's laying out? Let's saythey're laying out a launch for
(16:15):
the new year, and they'relooking at their podcasts or
looking at their website,they're looking at their emails
and all the things that they'regoing to incorporate in there?
Do you kind of apply the sameprinciples throughout
everything? Or do you do veryspecific things for each
different platform?
Travis Albritton (16:33):
So I think it starts first with what is the
filter that you're going to makethose decisions with, because
that's the easiest, like simplesolution. So because the
techniques and everything willchange, they change all the
time, right? It used to be youhave these big live launches,
and now evergreen webinars areback. So it's always kind of
circulating and coming around.
So I think whenever you'rethinking about a decision,
(16:54):
whether you're writing an email,creating sales, copy for a
landing page, putting together awebinar, a pitch, ask yourself,
how would I feel, if I told mybest friend to go through this
process? With a come out on theother side, like, that's you
100% I felt you and yourpersonality and everything you
stand for through the wholeprocess? Or would they come
(17:15):
away? thinking, wow, like,that's not the you that I know,
that is a helpful filter?
Because then that'll help youdecide like, should I put this
countdown timer here at the topof the page to get more people
to click on it? But I know likeit's just going to reset on
Thursday? Mm hmm. Well, howwould I feel if my best friend
(17:36):
found out that she made apurchase, or he made a purchase
because the time was runningout, but it just reset on just
resets on Thursday? Then theyfound out about that, like,
would that negatively impactsthe relationship? Probably,
right. So if you're gonna have acountdown timer have it actually
means something. So like, Ithink those, once you have that
filter in place of, I don't wantto do anything that would hurt
(17:59):
my best friend, if they weregoing to this process, or heard
our relationship in any way,then that gives you the decision
making to know what to do whatnot to do, what to emphasize,
not emphasize, you know, andthen I think at some point, also
believing that some of it isjust not going to be up to you.
Like when it comes to a launch,it's so easy to get wrapped up
(18:20):
in the numbers and dissect everylittle thing. And okay, this
thing went wrong. So that's myfault, this thing went wrong. So
that's my fault. You know, I'llnever forget, I did a launch in
January for products. And I did$25,000. I did the exact same
launch in June, two, twice asmany people and only cleared
$15,000. And it was better. Soit's like, is that my fault? I
(18:45):
have no idea. Things happen.
Yeah, it's not always yourfault. It's not Oh, and, and so.
So once you accept that thethings are going to happen
outside of your control, thatallows you to just show up with
a service oriented mind, and tosay whatever this is going to be
it's going to be and I'm goingto be pumped and excited that
I'm taking incremental stepsforward with wherever you are in
the journey, I think there's somuch pressure to just like, have
(19:06):
a big launch, or to grow reallyquickly, and be able to have
these big numbers that, youknow, become case studies for
other people. But most peoplethat I know that are successful
in the online space, they'vebeen doing it for 10 years, 15
years. And so it's not that theyhad this like one big launch
turning point is that they builtup skills over time until they
became the best at what theydid. And then that's why people
(19:27):
do business with them. So Ithink if you can have the
patience to have small launches,and to have, you know, months
where you just do like $100 Butyou know, like nonIS I'm in this
for the long haul. I'm in thisnot because I'm just trying to
make money but because I reallywant to help people. I'm excited
about what I get to do. Theneverything becomes a lot easier
(19:48):
to be patient and you don't haveto press as much you don't have
to try and squeeze every dollarout of everything. You can just
say I just want to make myimprint on the world with my
business and I want my clients,my customers to come away better
for it. And if you can have thepatience, that, you know, it
doesn't have to be, just knockit out of the ballpark, then
(20:08):
that also allows you to feelreally good about what you're
doing
Krystal Proffitt (20:12):
too. I love that everything that you just
said, it not only follows theprinciples of honest marketing,
but it doesn't have the hustleculture attached to it. I know,
I feel like right now. Well,we're recording this. It's like
very anti hustle culture is likethe new trend, which is kind of
you know, everything so cyclicaland so weird in the marketing
(20:33):
space. But I feel like when itcomes down to what you're
willing to kind of put on theline, like you said, put the
filter of your best friendthrough it. And then everything
that you just talked about, thekey takeaway that I hear is
patience. And Travis, I'm notpatient. And I'm like, oh, but
it's also the thing that haskept me in this game. I, you and
(20:54):
I both like we've been in theindustry long enough to see
these meteoric rises of allthese creators, and also the
plummet like we've seen the risein the fall of so many
businesses, so many creators.
And I know that you have a lotof background and not just
podcasting, YouTube marketing,website marketing, like all the
(21:14):
different email marketing. AndI'm curious in you taking all
the knowledge that you've gainedover the years, and applying it
to your new content and your newbusiness. What are some of those
things that you're like, I'm soglad I learned this the first
time. I'm so glad I know thisnow. Like, do you have any tips
to someone that's listening, andthey're just getting started?
(21:37):
And they're like, I want wantTravis as I like, I wouldn't
want this type of platform. Buthow can I kind of leapfrog some
of the big mistakes? That's whatI'm asking really is like,
what's your biggest mistake?
Travis, just tell us?
Travis Albritton (21:52):
So, I mean, so I think my biggest mistakes
typically come from trying totake a shortcut, to be honest.
So coming back to patients,it's, oh, I think I can go from
here to there faster if I justdo this. And then most of the
time, it backfires. Becauseshorts, shortcuts don't usually
work. It's nice to imagine thatthere's a silver bullet out
(22:17):
there. And that's the reasonthat you're not successful. But
it's it's likely not the case,right. And going back to
patients, there's something thatI that I heard recently from a
creator, that really resonatedwith me was that patience is not
an emotion, it's an action. Andso I think the idea of being
patient can feel very agonizing.
But if your actions reflect aperson who is patient, or
(22:41):
showing Patience, then you youare patient, whether you like it
or not, right, I don't likeusing patients, it's not
something I enjoy, it's not afun experience. But if if you
look at what you actually do,and how you actually conduct
yourself, and that showspatience, then that is really
where you focus. That's wherethe discipline comes in. It's
(23:03):
like I'm just gonna bedisciplined to do the right
things the right way. And itdoesn't matter how long it
takes. That's the key. If assoon as you put timetables
associated with goals, thenthere's a lot of pressure to
make things happen. But if it'sthis is the goal, this is where
I'm going. And I'm totallycontent for to take as long as
it takes, because I'm loving theprocess. Like you can't lose in
that scenario, like there's noway that you can lose there.
(23:27):
Because you can pivot, you canshift, you can adjust your
goals, you can say, You knowwhat, that's not actually a goal
I want anymore, I'm gonnareplace it with this one. And
it's like, the best experiencein the world. Like, you just get
to create things and helppeople. That's amazing. But as
soon as you say, Okay, we needto be a six figure business by
year two, because I quit my joband like, this is all I got. So
(23:47):
I don't want to sell the house,like we got to make this happen.
Like, that's a lot of pressureto put on yourself. And, you
know, that's not a really greatplace to operate from or to make
really good long term choicesfrom. So if I think about my
biggest mistakes, it alwayscomes back to not being patient
and wanting the shortcut,winning the quick fix, that's
gonna get me just a little bitfaster, to where I want to be.
(24:09):
Only to realize there's a reasonthat shortcut doesn't work. It's
because you really need to justbe patient and just let it play
out. Yeah, can you hear my kidsjust knocking on stuff in the
background?
Krystal Proffitt (24:22):
It's great.
It's great. I love it. I feellike I feel like they're like
creating the Albritton bands.
Like they're just like, they'reready. They're ready to go. It's
happening. It's like there'sonly company here.
Travis Albritton (24:33):
There's only so much sound dampening you can
do in a home office, you know,like I've got sound tiles. I've
got like a closed door. Good mictechnique. You can't stop a four
year old and a one year oldbeing on the podcast once they
decide they want to be there.
Krystal Proffitt (24:48):
No, they're here. They're here to party.
They're here to party and it'sfine. We welcome it and we're
glad we're glad that they'rehere. They're trying to come in
that's trying to come in and bepart of this conversation. Yep,
But I love what you said aboutpatience and discipline. I think
that was the perfect analogy of,it's not even really comparing
the two. It's like really justaligning them in what you have
(25:11):
to have in order to make thishappen. But I want to go back to
what you were saying aboutsomeone saying, Okay, I quit my
job, I need a six figurebusiness, that it's not only
super hard, like, it's so muchpressure on yourself, it's hard
to be creative. It's so hard tobe creative, and really just
feel alive in your content. Andthis is something I think you do
(25:34):
so well is you put a lot ofemphasis and like, I can feel
the passion, I can feel thepassion, I was actually
listening to your podcast rightbefore this. And I'm gonna pull
up this is the episode y'allneed to go listen to Okay. It's
called the first piece ofcontent. Every business needs. I
was listening to this I waslike, was Trump's got to say
(25:54):
this, I want to hear what he hasto say. But I can feel it like
as soon as you get into it likeyou are no nonsense, let's just
get down to business and talkabout the important things we
need to cover. And I think thatthat just comes from experience,
confidence, but also passion.
Like you're so passionate aboutthis. And I'm just curious, when
you're looking at marketing foryour clients, or the other
(26:18):
people that you're working with?
Is there something that you cando to kind of give them that
patience? Like are you lookingat like long term strategies
with people are you looking at,here's what we can do to
optimize what you already have?
Like, how does that really workwhen you're working with someone
else?
Travis Albritton (26:37):
So it's always hard to well, especially when
you start talking aboutpodcasting and setting
expectations. Talking aboutthings you can't control, it's
very hard to go viral as apodcast, right, is that
incremental drip of growth istypically the is typically the
norm. And so the first thingthat I do, because I have the
luxury of working withbusinesses, is I encourage them
(26:58):
to find a key performanceindicator or KPI that is not
downloads. So what would makethis podcast worthwhile to you,
if it never got super big. Andtypically, that is some kind of
business results. So whetherit's, you're in a b2b space, so
this is gonna be mainly aninterview podcast, and you're
gonna interview prospects, andhere's the framing we're going
(27:19):
to use where it's reallyvaluable content, but it's going
to give you a reason to be insales mode and build those
relationships. And so it's like,okay, well, this year, you spent
XML producing your podcast, yougain this many clients, what's
the lifetime value of thoseclients is that more than what
you spend on the podcast, great,has any downloads an episode
doesn't matter, you made money,right. And so, So tying the pie,
(27:42):
if you're trying to play thepodcast game to be popular, and
to be really big, it's veryhard. It's not like tick tock,
where you can have 15 seconds offame. And that's very ephemeral.
So, you know, good luck tryingto get him to come back. But
it's very hard to create a viralpodcast. So it's one first
creating something that'sworthwhile on its own. And then
(28:03):
tying it to a result outside ofthe podcast itself, is really
helpful. Because the thing thatmakes podcasting really unique
and special is the depth of theconnection you have with your
audiences completely andparalleled in the internet
space, you know, so like, ticktock, three seconds of
attention, Facebook video, threeseconds, as someone's scrolling
past to see the video of theirneighbor's kids, which is why
(28:23):
they're actually there, they'renot there to see your ad.
YouTube, three minutes isreally, really good. You can get
someone to watch three minutesof your video before they go and
find a cat video. The podcastsare listening to like 90% of a
45 minute conversation, likethat's just crazy, like people
won't give you that muchattention anywhere else on the
internet. And so if you can thenleverage that into a connection
(28:45):
with somebody, and then you haveanother way of serving them
outside of the podcast itself,that can then be a vehicle to
accelerate the other thingsyou're doing. And so talking
about setting expectations arehow to make them happy with it.
It's how do we connect this tosomething else that really
matters to you? And how do wemake the podcast something
that's the favorite part of whatyou do? So this is something you
look forward to being able to doyou feel like it positive
(29:07):
positively reflects you and yourvalues and you're like excited
to share it and be like look,I'm an apple podcast. Isn't that
amazing? There's my name likethere's something to be said for
that. And and then again, justlike tying it back to a really
tangible result that's not well,we don't have 5000 downloads per
episode yet so let's just callit quits
Krystal Proffitt (29:29):
you just saying that makes me so sad?
Because I've heard it so manytimes. I've seen it I've seen
people just quit and I'm justlike, I don't know if it's
burnout. That is one option. Idon't know if it's because they
got frustrated that they aren'tgetting 10,000 downloads per
episode and I don't know like wedon't have we need an exit
(29:49):
interview for creators. This issomething we should we should do
this Travis let's like keep ustogether. We need to be like why
did you quit like what'shappening? We need the exit
interview like why you Quit yourjob. Because it just it makes me
so sad. And I think that themajority of it is unrealistic
expectations and the fact thatthey aren't living up to this
(30:11):
standard of what people areputting out there, because this
is another interesting thing isTravis knows a lot of behind the
scenes of the podcasting space.
And I mean, I just remember whenwe would use to talk about
numbers, and you're like, thosepeople really don't have those
numbers, or that's not, that'snot. We're not gonna call
anybody out, but it's typicallynot as much. So if somebody's
(30:34):
just getting their podcast upand running, can you tell us a
little bit about? Like, whatwould you expect? Like if it was
a brand new client, theylaunched this month? What would
you tell them to expect?
Travis Albritton (30:47):
So with a brand new clients, if they have
an email list that factors in ifthey have social media presence,
that's a factor. But we'retypically aiming to get to 100
downloads an episode as quicklyas possible, because then that
puts you in like the top 25% ofany podcasts. So right there,
you can use that and say, like,listen, we have traction, people
(31:07):
are continuing to come back tolisten to it, we have something
here. Let's capitalize it. Let'scontinue to grow it. And then
you start to look at thatincremental growth. But it
really depends on the niche,too. Like, there's so many
factors. If you're creating atrue crime podcast, yeah, you
can get 5000 downloads anepisode easily. But it's hard to
build a business off of a truecrime podcast, unless you're
like a recruiter for the locallaw enforcement office, right?
(31:30):
Like there's, there's only somany ways you can monetize that
outside of sponsorships. And solike, you know, when I have a
client, it's like, hey, we dobusiness PR for small
businesses. Like that's a veryniche within the PR agency
industry, for marketing online.
So when you get for yourdownloads an episode, that's
like, amazing, yeah, becauseyou're the only one that exists
(31:51):
in the entire world. You're theonly podcast that does this in
the whole world, you know, 400people coming to listen to you.
Like, that's amazing. Next year,let's see if we can get it to
600 700 800. But we're gonnatalking in terms of years, it's
like, this time next year, wheredo we want to be? And how do we
get there? And how much money dowe want to spend to promote it?
And how much time do you want tospend going on other podcasts to
promote your show? And so allthese things are factors. But
(32:14):
for me, I've seen like, if youcan get very quickly to 100,
just like leveraging all thechannels they already have, even
if it's like, let's hold acontest with your company, and
have everybody listened andleave a review and give somebody
a $50 amazon gift card, likethere's all kinds of things you
can do to get to 100. And thenfrom there, it's just sticking
with it long enough to basicallyOutlast everyone else in your
(32:35):
niche. Yeah, is the secret towinning the long game. Right. So
while I was Buzzsprout, welaunched buzz cast, which is a
podcast about podcasting in thepodcasting industry. I've been
replaced by Jordan, who's farsuperior to me as a host. So
it's much better for it. Butwhen we started that podcast, it
was like, we had no goal for itother than we're just going to
(32:56):
make something for Buzzsproutcustomers. That's it. And then
it became like one of the topfive podcasts about podcasting
in the world. Just because wedid it for four years. And so if
you do anything for four years,especially in a medium, like
podcasting, or anything online,where four years is an eternity,
like, yeah, you're gonna be muchmore established than anyone
else. So it's really just aboutstarting, and then sticking with
(33:18):
it beyond when everyone elsedropped out. And so if you can
do that, then you can be thenumber one go to person for what
you talk about. So that's wherethe patience comes in.
Krystal Proffitt (33:29):
I was gonna say we just That was a
beautiful, like, circle backaround to discipline. And I feel
like that's a theme. This is atheme. Yes, definitely. It. It's
funny, because this is thelesson I always have to learn.
I'm so impatient in everything,especially when it comes to my
business. Because I am one ofthose people. It's not so much
that I want to, like, grow andscale necessarily. It's more
(33:51):
about this is hard. When you'redoing something new, or
especially people listening,they're just getting started.
They're like, Oh, I don't knowhow, what is auto leveling? What
are like, I don't understandwhat all these buttons are in
Audacity, or Hindenburg orwherever you're editing and
you're like you're frustrated.
You want to just give everythingover to an expert. And then
you're like, oh, I don't know ifI can afford that, because I'm
(34:12):
just getting started. So it'slike this weird, messy middle
that you go through and to heartraffic. As I say, You need
patience. You're just like you.
I know you're screaming at usright now. But the truth is, if
you can just stick with it. Overtime, you go back and you look
at all these incredible thingsthat you've done like Travis I
(34:34):
mean, I don't even know if I'vetold you this, but I have over
1000 episodes at this point fromdoing the potty report doing the
profit podcast and y'all Ididn't do anything extra
special. I just kept showingjust kept showing up and
talking. And so it's like allthat incremental growth that
Travis was talking about buildsand builds and builds over time.
(34:56):
And it's just it's soincredible. I love podcasting,
and I travel So as to, and I'mcurious as you were looking at
your business strategy, so notfor your clients, but for what
you're doing. Is there any onepiece? Well, first of all, I
have to ask you anotherquestion. Because, yes, a little
controversial. Okay, we're gonnaget into the controversial weeds
(35:16):
here. How do you feel aboutshownotes? Do you do show notes
on your website? Do you just dothem on? Like, because people
are always asking me thisquestion. And I'm curious what
your thoughts are.
Travis Albritton (35:29):
So there's two different ways to do show notes.
There is bullet point referencesfor things you talked about in
the podcast with a couple ofsentences to summarize. So
you're giving people if they'retrying to decide which episode
to listen to, and they're pokingaround, you want to give them
enough to know, okay, this iswhat they're gonna talk about.
And then here are the links forthe things they talked about.
There's that version of the shownotes. Then if you want to do
(35:51):
the SEO play, you write a blogpost, you say, not just am I
writing a blog post, like moreshownotes. But what is the
keyword traffic? I'm trying totap into? How am I optimizing
this page on my website for thatkeyword traffic to show up
organically on the first page ofGoogle? And then what is the
blog post that I need to writearound this question to the
search term? To make it the bestanswer on the internet? When
(36:14):
somebody has this question? Oh,by the way, there's an embed
code where I have my podcastplayer. That's the other way to
do show notes. So so it's notjust about like more show notes,
it has to be with that strategybeing the primary driver. And
then that also informs how youchoose your topics. And so if
you're using that strategy, andyou want to do blog content, and
(36:35):
you want that to start drivingtraction traffic for you, you
start with the blog, actually.
And then you reverse engineerwhat you should talk about on
the podcast, where then youcould write the blog that's
going to get the traffic but youstart with, what are people
looking for online? That I cananswer better than anyone else?
And then how do I create writtencontent to answer that question,
and then I'm going to create apodcast out of that. And then if
you're recording video, then I'mgonna put it on YouTube. But you
(36:56):
start first with what is thestream of traffic I'm tapping
into and how do I do that to thebest of my abilities. That's
where more shownotes actuallymakes sense. But if you're just
doing an audio podcast, anduploading to Apple and Spotify,
you don't need to write a blog.
Krystal Proffitt (37:13):
Okay, y'all heard it from Travis. I knew
this is what he was going tosay. But I wanted to say I told
y'all I told y'all this is theway because this is something
that I've I have heard talkingabout the exit interview of
burnout, pod podcasters. Andcontent creators. People tell me
all the time, they're like, Idon't podcast anymore, because
they can't do show notes. AndI'm like, you can't publish
something and say, This is whattoday's episode is about period
(37:36):
Publish. And they're like, Well,no, I have to do the whole
website, I have to do the, theit's got to be this. And it's
got to be SEO. And I'm like, Whosaid like you don't have to just
because 1000 Other podcastersare the big podcasters that you
follow that have a team of 20people behind them? Like,
because they do all that itdoesn't mean you have to. And so
(37:57):
I just I love your perspectiveon this. And I think that it's
super helpful. Especiallybecause there's a lot of people
that are either just gettingstarted with all of content
creation, or they're looking atadding another piece to whether
it's YouTube or an email list orany of those. Do you foresee
adding anything? Are we going tosee Tik Tok soon from you,
Travis? Like, is there anythingfun coming up that you're going
(38:20):
to be adding to honestmarketing, we have to know
Travis Albritton (38:23):
so so here's everything that I do for the
podcast. And so a lot of it isjust tapping into organic
traffic. But then also talkingabout paid acquisition
strategies as well. Soorganically, so I record a video
with the audio. So that allowsme to put it on YouTube. And
podcast directories like Applepodcasts and Spotify. YouTube is
(38:45):
becoming a much more popularplatform for people to listen to
podcasts on. You know, I thinkEdison Research came out and
said, it's actually the numberone podcast listening platform,
which everyone in the industryis like, That can't be true in.
They're like, well, that's whatpeople said. So what are you
gonna do? And so I think peoplehave started to figure out like,
Oh, like this is that we'reactually just recording a talk
show. But instead of Late Nightwith Jimmy Fallon, it's Travis
(39:06):
and Krystal talking aboutmarketing, right. And so if you
can capture video, somehow,whether it's Zoom video, which
we're using now, or otherplatforms, like Riverside, or
you're recording in the sameroom, and you just set up your
phone on a tripod and hitrecord, having video that you
can use on YouTube gives you onemore place for people to
discover your content. And like,really, tangibly, the way this
(39:27):
looks is you post a video, andnothing happens. You post
another video and nothinghappens. You do that 10 times.
And then you have one video andyou're like, how does that have
100 views and these other havefour? Then you look and you're
like, oh, YouTube showed that to20,000 people didn't ask me for
permission. That is did it. Andso now that's 20,000 new people
that were exposed to livecontent that would never have
(39:50):
done had that experience inApple podcasts or Spotify. That
just does not happen. And soYouTube gives you
discoverability where platformslike Apple podcasts and Spotify
really struggle because YouTubeis a search engine first and
foremost, and so I think havingthat is a really easy way to
repurpose your content is reallyvaluable. Especially if you're
doing zoom interviews, just hitrecord, record the video, upload
(40:12):
it to YouTube. Now you haveanother place to distribute your
content. I'm not a big fan ofthe audiogram thing. Because
people go to YouTube to watchvideos of people's faces not to
see a picture with a squigglyline. That's just my two cents.
And then figure out whatplatforms are doing and leaning
into right now. It's short formvertical videos. Well, guess
what, you just have 30 minutesor 40 minutes of content, I bet
(40:35):
there's two or three little 22ndclips you can pull out of there,
reformat, and then upload as ashort. And the you know, I have
a relatively new YouTubechannel. And I'm driving it all
organically, just to like testand experiment on things that I
use for my clients. And so Ithink since September probably
had, like 5000 views on thewhole channel. Well, I had one
(40:58):
short that did 1100 In the spanof 48 hours. And it was not the
one I expected. Really that onethat's the one you thought was
great. What about this one thatI put a bunch of time and effort
into four views, right? Sorather than try and figure out
what the algorithm once justgive it everything and let it
choose. But once you start tothen repurpose content you
(41:19):
already have, you're not tryingto reinvent the wheel. And
that's what creates, that's whencontent marketing becomes really
valuable as you have a corepiece of content, that you're
able to pull bits and pieces outof, and repurpose in different
places. So that's what I doorganically is really a YouTube
focus with the content withYouTube shorts. And then
obviously distributing it toaudio platforms. Now I still
(41:40):
prefer that people subscribe onApple podcasts and Spotify and
overcast and those kinds ofplaces. Because it's a lot
stickier people subscribe toyoutube channels all the time,
and then never watch any morevideos. But when you subscribe
to our podcast, you typicallylisten to most of the episodes.
And the retention is still waybetter. Because there's less
distractions. There's not like awhole sidebar of other videos
tempting you to go and watchsomething else. But YouTube is a
(42:02):
really great platform fordistributing and really as a
marketing arm to get the wordout there about what you're
doing. And then I will, I willfind unique sponsorship
opportunities. There's the triedand true stuff like you can pay
for a podcast promotion spot ina third party app, like podcast
addict is typically the best oneto start with, that tends to be
cheaper, overcast, pod bean tolet you do it, Pocket Casts, and
(42:27):
in some of these other you startgetting to like multiple $1,000
for an ad spot. But they'reextremely effective. Like it's
much more effective than runningFacebook ads or Google ads,
because you're advertising topeople that are podcast
listeners that are listening topodcasts. And so they're they're
not trying to watch tiktoks.
They're trying to listen topodcasts. And so it's like, oh,
well, here's another one I mightbe interested in. So that's one
really great way to do it. Theother way that I've been trying
(42:50):
and experimenting with and whoknows if this would be a good
long term strategy is findinguntapped groups online of people
that could be my ideal listener,and sponsoring those groups. So
I recently just finished up asponsorship campaign where I
sponsored a Facebook group of3000 people for a month. And it
was for sponsored posts and forsponsored emails. And it was the
(43:11):
first time this person had everdone that. And it was relatively
inexpensive. Because it's like,Hey, this is money I didn't have
before. You're just saying if Itell people to go and listen to
your podcast, like you'll giveme money, that's great. Like,
let's make this happen. Yeah.
And so also like looking forcreative ways that are outside
of the mainstream, to just say,How do I get my content in front
(43:32):
of people that would enjoylistening to it, and do it in a
way where it's very easy forthem to take that next step. So
all the posts had links to theepisode, for instance. If you
can get creative, you can findsome really great opportunities
to get exposure for relativelylittle. The problem with best
practices is everyone knowsthem. Everybody does them, they
become more expensive. So likewhen I first started doing
(43:54):
overcast ads, you could buy amonth for 60 bucks. And now
depending on your category, it'slike $1,800 for Oh my gosh. So
if only it's like I was what?
Following somebody on Instagram.
And they were joking. Like thebiggest mistake in my life was
not being able to buy foreclosedproperties in 2008 when I was in
(44:15):
eighth grade. No, it's like thetiming is everything. Oh my
gosh, right? Yes, it's like holyit could have been a landlord in
2009 you have access to all thisfree cash flow to that I was in
middle school. So you can't goback. But you can find those
next opportunities and and tryand capitalize on those.
Krystal Proffitt (44:34):
Yeah, and I think that with you know what
you're doing in the honestmarketing and being so
transparent, I think like Iforesee and I hope and I pray
that this trend just continueswith people looking for ethical
marketers people that are nottrying to swindle them and
people that are just listeningto their spidey senses more
(44:56):
about like all the like, we'regonna dupe these people. Well,
we're gonna do this, we're gonnado that. And I think that your
show and what you're doing yourplatform is just going to
continue to grow, because I'msuper supportive of all of this.
And I think that everybodythat's listening is you're gonna
have some new listeners afterthis, I'm just gonna go ahead
and put that out there. Becausethere's people listening.
They're like, Oh my gosh, Idon't like this the gross like,
(45:19):
icky stuff that people aredoing. And Travis is someone
that I've learned from for along time. So all y'all please
go check out his show. And ifsomeone's listening and are
interested in working with you,like, what would that look like?
Do they need to contact you?
Like, tell us all the things?
Travis Albritton (45:32):
Sure, yeah. So So I work primarily with
businesses that are multiple,six figures, seven, eight
figures in annual revenue, anddo just full service podcast
production. And so if that'syou, or you're connected to
someone that feels like, hey,they would really benefit from
that, then just go to honestpodcast.com. I'm building a new
website. So right now, it's anold website, but in the future,
it'll be really epic andawesome. You'll just have to
(45:54):
take my word for it. Be honest.
Yeah, I patients is coming. Youknow, it's like, I could be
super stressed out that it's nothere yet. Or just just let it
happen when it happens, youknow, c'est la vie. But yeah,
and I think the first step thatI always go through with a
potential client is, what areyou hoping to get out of this?
And if you can answer that,really, tangibly, and say, This
(46:14):
is what I'm hoping to accomplishfrom this podcast, then that's
where you start. And then if itmakes sense for me to produce
the podcast for you, then westart talking about that. If it
doesn't, then I say, Here,here's the way I would do it, if
I was you, and here's how youcan save a bunch of money by
going and doing it yourself orusing these other tools. So
that'd be the best place forpeople to go if they want to
(46:35):
potentially work with me, or, orsee if I can help them be
honest. podcasts.com.
Krystal Proffitt (46:40):
Okay, perfect.
And we're gonna link to that inthe show notes. And Travis, this
is so fun. But we're not doneyet. We're not done right?
Because I have some rapid firequestions. And I'm not going to
ask that you're up for them. Youdon't even have the option.
You're just you have to answerthese. But what's fun, is I'm
going to go back and listen toour old one, because it's the
same questions. I want to see ifyour answers have changed. They
probably are on the show. Sookay, so the first one is, what
(47:05):
piece of advice would you giveto a brand new podcaster or
content creator,
Travis Albritton (47:12):
have fun.
Like, just enjoy the act ofmaking content. Because if you
can find joy in what you'redoing, you'll keep doing it. If
you become too gory and goaloriented or results oriented too
quickly, then it steals the joyout of everything you're doing.
So make sure you have fun, nomatter what you're doing.
Krystal Proffitt (47:31):
That's great.
Okay, the next one is what isthe dream podcast you would love
to be on? And who is your dreampodcast? Guest.
Travis Albritton (47:44):
So I think dream podcast to be on. Yeah,
that's a tough one. That's atough one. So I would probably
say right now, it would be theTim Ferriss show. Because I'm
just a sucker for all thingsjust like life hacking. I talked
about being patients, but I alsolove Four Hour Workweek, you
(48:06):
know, so trying to figure thattension out balance. Yeah, that
balance, right. I do have analter ego. And so but that would
be just phenomenal. To be ableto pick his brain and ask him
the questions, I would want toask somebody who is always
thinking about how to optimizeevery piece of their life, even
their personal life. And so, andI think he's just a phenomenal
(48:29):
interviewer. So I'd love to beon his show. And I would still
love to have Neil deGrasse Tysonas my guest. I'm pretty pretty
confident.
Krystal Proffitt (48:35):
Last time that I was like, Yeah, I don't know
if it was Tim Ferriss, but Iknow that that was the dream
guest.
Travis Albritton (48:41):
Yeah, so Neil deGrasse Tyson hasn't happened
yet. Just gotta be patient oneday, it'll happen. I mean,
having a podcast aboutmarketing, I'm not, my ads
aren't great. So I'd have topivot into something else. But
though maybe
Krystal Proffitt (48:56):
you have to create the podcast that you're
like, okay. You're like SEO?
You're like, Okay, which one? IsNeil going to be like? Yes,
that's the podcast, just maybeyou should call it like the
like, searching for new. Like,wait, what is PR people are
like, what is that? Are youinvolved? I don't know if I get
you in some trouble. Maybe wealready do that.
Travis Albritton (49:16):
Maybe we'll see. We'll see.
Krystal Proffitt (49:19):
Okay, and then my last question is, do you
consider yourself aperfectionist?
Travis Albritton (49:25):
No, I used to.
But the problem with being aperfectionist is that you cry,
like my child in the background.
Because Because the problem isyou can never live up to your
own expectations if you'realways trying to be perfect. And
so going back to like havingfun. Unless you can just say,
this is good enough. And I'mgonna like go on with the rest
(49:45):
of my life. Like my life doesnot have to be consumed with
this piece of content of thispodcast episode. There's a lot
of freedom that comes from that.
And just knowing like, I'vecreated the thing that's good
enough within the parametersthat I've given it, specifically
time parameters, and say, I'mnot gonna say spend five hours
recording an episode, I'm goingto put some time into the
outline, and I'm gonna give it ashot. And if it's terrible, I'll
(50:05):
do it again. But if it's like,no, this is going to help
somebody, I don't have to worryabout it being perfect. And so
once you let go of this myththat you can create the perfect
thing, because you can't, thenthat allows you to actually
enjoy creating the best thingyou can right now, knowing it's
only gonna get better, the moreyou do it.
Krystal Proffitt (50:27):
I feel like you gave us so many gifts in
this whole episode like I am.
Again, I'm so grateful I startedthis with telling you, I'm so
grateful. But I truly am sograteful for the mentorship that
you've offered to me and all theamazing things that you've
shared with the audience today,because this is people are gonna
go back and listen to thoselike, like, what did Travis say
(50:47):
about this? Like, I want to goback and see and then they're
gonna go listen to your show,right? Please go listen to
honest marketing. And go checkout all the cool things that
Travis is doing. But thank youso much for coming on the show
today.
Travis Albritton (50:59):
This was great. Thanks for having me. It
was a blast.
Krystal Proffitt (51:02):
Like I said in the very beginning, I love a
reunion, it was so good to catchup with Travis. I love what he
is doing. I think that there'sbeen a lot bigger push in the
last probably 24 months forpeople to take a look at
marketing in general, and havean approach that's authentic,
(51:25):
it's honest. And it's somethingthat people can feel good about.
Because at the end of the day,you want to feel good about the
interaction you're having withyour audience with your
potential customers. And I loveTravis's example. You know, the
story he told about doingsomething and somebody's like,
calling him out on it. Like thatdidn't feel good to me. And so
(51:47):
if you're brand new to contentcreation, or your brand new
online business owner, that Ireally encourage you to listen
to the feedback from youraudience. And maybe you're doing
something that's like anindustry best practice. But if
in your gut, you're like, Ah, Ijust don't know that I feel good
about that. Then take a stepback and like be pretty self
(52:07):
aware, to know when you're doingsomething out of integrity, or
you're in integrity, and thenyou'll be able to make that
final executive decision ofwhether you want to follow a
path that has been taught to youor something that even one of
your industry peers has said,this is the way to do it. If
(52:28):
it's against your morals andvalues, then don't do it. Like
take a step back, practice onhis marketing practice the
things that Travis and I havetalked about, and just really be
true to who you are. And the waythat you want to have the
interaction with your audience.
Just be fully within line withwho you want to be like the
(52:50):
person that you want to be outin the world and what you're
putting forward. So please golisten to Travis's podcast, go
to the show notes,KrystalProffitt.com/episode382
For everything that we talkedabout here today, and to go
check out Travis this podcastbecause it's really good. It's
really, really good. And ISorry, I shouldn't laugh about
(53:12):
that. Travis like, I'm surprisedI knew that whatever you're
doing next was going to beincredible. I kind of giggle a
little bit because I love yourstories. And I love the way that
you put examples out into theworld. And I hope that you
listening to this podcast, youwill love Travis's podcast just
as much. But again, go to theshow notes
(53:35):
KrystalProffitt.com/episode382And go check out Travis's show.
But that's all I have for youtoday. So if this is your first
time tuning in, make sure youhit the subscribe or follow
button wherever you're listeningto this podcast. And as always
remember, keep it up. We allhave to start somewhere
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