March 4, 2025 • 53 mins
Dive into the world of podcasting with our special guest, Dave Jackson, a pioneering figure in the industry with an incredible journey that started back in 2005. In this episode, we explore why every podcaster should have a dedicated website. Dave shares valuable insights on the importance of discoverability and how a website amplifies your podcast's potential to reach broader audiences.
As we chat about common pitfalls that podcasters encounter when setting up their sites, we also touch on the significance of audience engagement through email lists and feedback surveys. Whether you’re a novice looking for guidance or a seasoned podcaster seeking ways to enhance your content, you'll discover practical tips to elevate your podcasting game and strengthen your connection with your listeners.
With actionable advice and a sprinkle of humor, this episode will inspire you to launch your podcasts and build a robust online presence that reflects your unique voice. Want to unlock the secrets of podcasting success? Join us and take the first step toward creating an incredible platform for your content! Don't forget to subscribe, share, and leave a review!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Today's episode was a really fun interview for me.
I mean, don't get me wrong, Ihave so much fun with all the
folks that we interview here onthe podcast.
But this one was extra specialbecause I met today's guest in
person for the first time in2020 at a conference, and this
(00:23):
was like February 2020.
So it was before all the thingsthat happened in 2020 went down
, and it was really cool becauseit was one of my first.
It was actually my firstspeaking gig we'll call it as a
podcast coach and someonestepping into this space and it
(00:44):
was really cool to meet himbecause he kind of is a big deal
in podcasting.
So Dave Jackson is a pioneeringfigure in the podcast industry
and he started in 2005.
So here we are, 20 years laterand Dave has such a cool story.
With a background in educationand over two decades of
(01:06):
experience as a technicaltrainer, dave founded the School
of Podcasting to help others inlaunching and enhancing their
podcast.
So throughout his career, he'screated more than 20 podcasts,
contributing to over 3,000episodes, with a cumulative
download content exceeding 3million.
(01:27):
Pretty cool, right, like heknows his stuff.
And actually in 2018, dave wasinducted into the Academy of
Podcasters Hall of Fame,recognizing his significant
contributions to the field.
Then, in August 2024, hetransitioned from his role at
Libsyn to join Podpage, whichwe've talked about.
(01:49):
Podpage in this episode.
Today, we're going toextensively talk about why it's
important to have a website foryour podcast.
So if you've been debating like, which tool should I use or
what does that look like, we getinto all the details on what
that looks like and why it'sstill so important to have a
website for your content.
(02:09):
But I won't make you wait anylonger.
Here's my chat with DaveJackson.
Let's get right to it.
Welcome to the Profit Podcast,where we teach you how to start,
launch and market your contentwith confidence.
I'm your host, crystal Profit,and I'm so excited that you're
here.
Thanks for hanging out with metoday, because if you've been
(02:31):
trying to figure out the worldof content creation, this is the
show that will help be yourtime-saving shortcut.
So let's get right to it, shallwe All right?
Prophet Podcast listeners, wehave an extra special guest on
the show today.
So welcome, Dave, so happy tohave you.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Crystal, happy to always connect here and nerd out
on podcasting and all thingsinternet.
Looking forward to this.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
Yeah, this is going to be really fun.
We were just talking before westarted recording about just
kind of the different journeysthat you've had and the
different ups and downs and ofthe different journeys that
you've had and the different upsand downs and lefts and rights
that you've had in your podcastjourney.
But if someone's brand new toyou, then can you tell them a
little bit about your journey asa podcaster and the things that
you've done in the podcastspace?
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Sure, I've been podcasting since 2005.
Had a friend of mine come backfrom a conference and he said
hey, you know how you missed theMySpace boat, which again kind
of ages me here.
He's like I've just seen thenext thing.
It's going to be podcasting.
And I Googled it and there wasone and a half pages.
I'm like how do you spell that?
Again, you know so I've beendoing it since 2005.
(03:39):
That's when I launched theSchool of Podcasting.
Along the years, because of mypodcast, I worked for Libsyn for
eight years and was the head ofpodcast education over there,
and then last year nothing wrongwith Libsyn, this was just a
better fit for me I moved overto Podpage, but it's been a fun
time.
We go back to the days ofhand-coding your feed.
(04:01):
I have a piece of equipment inmy closet that I think I paid
800 bucks for and I could getthe same thing now for 150 bucks
and it's like so it's funwatching all the tools and
everything come into podcasting,just to make it easier and
easier.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
Yeah, I mean, I'm just blown away from whenever I
started in 2018.
And I remember I recorded thosefirst episodes on Skype and I
know people that are listeningthey're like wait, what?
Like?
It's like, yeah, but you haveto.
Everybody remember, like before2020, zoom wasn't widely, you
know, used in all the spaces andpeople felt super comfortable
(04:35):
with it, so we had to getcreative.
I mean, I was doing like Skypeand doing like multiple other
devices.
It's like, okay, you record onyour end, I'm going to record on
mine, just because it wasn'treliable.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
So one of my first interviews I got a suction cup
that stuck to your phone and ithad a cable run out of it and I
think I put it into my computer,maybe even to a cassette, and I
got that from Radio Shack.
So neither Radio Shack or thesuction cup recorder are around
anymore.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
Oh my gosh.
Yeah, I mean I think that we'veseen so many different things
and, like I mean I know we soundlike the people that have been
around forever but it's so true,it's like people in 2025 have
no idea how easy they have it tostart, like you could do
everything from your phone ifyou wanted to.
You could do everything forunder $100 to get started very
(05:26):
easily, from equipment tosoftware to everything.
So I feel like, you know, it'sjust a really fun time and when
I think about you know, I wastelling Dave before we started
recording I was like my audienceis a.
It's the perfect blend ofbeginners and those seasoned
podcasters, and we talked aboutyou moving over to PodPage and I
(05:48):
wanted to specifically talkabout why podcast websites.
This is the thing I've beentrying to beat into everybody's
head.
I'm like you have to have awebsite for your podcast and
they're like, yeah, but I havethis or I have that.
So can you just tell us alittle bit about, I guess, your
philosophy on having a podcastwebsite, why it's important and
(06:08):
all the things?
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Yeah, I mean, I worked at Libsyn for eight years
and part of that was techsupport and I'm here to tell you
at least once a month, if nottwo or three, somebody would
send in a ticket.
Hey, I just got notified thatmy podcast is now on Apple, but
yet when I go over and searchfor it it doesn't show up.
I'm like, what's the name ofyour show?
And they'd be like, okay, and Iwould type it in the exact name
(06:31):
.
I'm like is there any kind offunny spelling here?
And it just wouldn't show up.
I remember there was one.
It was something like homefixer-upper helper, something
like that Typed in the exactsame nothing.
And then and sometimes this isin Spotify as well, it's not
just an Apple thing and then Ityped in his name, because
that's what he had for theauthor, which is what you should
(06:52):
do Type in his name.
He came right up.
But if you said, oh, I'm thesuch and such podcast and people
searched, it just doesn't showup.
I mean, Libsyn's podcast iscalled the Feed and if you don't
type in the feed Libsyn, it'snot going to show up.
And so when I have kind of likeone of those, one big tear
comes out of my right eye.
When I hear somebody say youknow, find me wherever you find
(07:12):
your podcast, I'm in the carscreaming no, don't say that,
it's much better.
One of the things you can dowith pod page is you go get your
link to Apple and Spotify atleast I might add a few more,
but at least those two and youput them in a pod page and it
automatically makes a slashfollow.
So if it's, you know, whatevermywebsitecom slash follow number
(07:34):
one.
I've reinforced my brand, I'vebeat that into their head again,
and now they can go over andwhatever app they want to listen
to, it's one click away.
Whatever app they want tolisten to, it's one click away.
And so I mean, that's just oneexample Going back to the early
days of the internet, hence thegray hair.
But there was a big websitecalled mp3.com and I'm a
(07:55):
musician and there weremusicians that were making a
living selling their music onmp3.com and they'd be like, oh,
just go to mp3.com, slash Dave,and that's all they said.
They had business cards withmp3.com, slash Dave, and then
people started uploading stuffthat they didn't know and they
were sued and sold, and sued andsold.
And mp3.com I don't know what'sthere now, but basically, and
(08:16):
none of these people had theirown website and so it went away
and that kind of just happened.
Now with TikTok you had allthese people hey, my TikTok is
my main thing, but you'rebuilding your house on rented
land.
You don't really own that.
And when that went away, if youdidn't have a website or a
(08:36):
newsletter or something youraudience is like, have fun
finding Dave Jackson, there are8 billion of us, right?
I have a really common name.
So by having a website, youknow it can help One of my
clients.
Her name is Zita Christian.
She does a show called mySpouse has Dementia and she
called me up the one day andsaid hey, I know you work at
(08:58):
Podpage.
Can you walk me through settingthis up, because she'll tell
you she's over 70, right, soshe's, she's not.
You know she's, she's some.
But the thing I love about Zita, she is not afraid of
technology.
She just says it might take mea little longer and we had her
set up in 10 minutes.
It's.
It's one of the things wherethat's the marketing thing and
you go.
Well, you can set your websiteup in 10 minutes.
(09:19):
No, you can seriously set yourwebsite up in 10 minutes.
And she's like oh, I can dothat.
And I'm like okay, well, do youhave an email list?
Oh yeah, I use whatever Aweber,mailchimp or whatever.
I'm like oh so log in.
Okay, copy that little bit ofcode there.
Okay, go into pod page and nowpaste it.
Okay, cool, look, yournewsletter's right there on your
website.
Oh well, that was easy.
(09:40):
And then, if you're usingPatreon or Supercast or PayPal
or Buy Me a Coffee, it's justwhat we do is we make websites
great looking websites that youdon't have to shoehorn a podcast
into.
Like if you go to Wix orSquarespace, it's like here's a
template for a gym, here's atemplate for a church.
And you're like yeah, I'm apodcast, and so we have all
(10:02):
these templates made forpodcasts and then we just
integrate with everything.
So if you're like, yeah, I'm apodcast and so we have all these
templates made for podcasts andthen we just integrate with
everything, so if you're onBuzzsprout or Captivate or
whoever, we bring your playerover.
If you're using a newsletter,we'll bring that over.
We can import your videos fromYouTube.
It just makes it easy, because,I mean, the thing we love to do
is make content.
(10:23):
We don't want to sit there andgo, oh, every time I log into
WordPress it's like oh, look, Ihave 13 plugins that need
updated and 5,000 messages fromspam, and you know.
And then you update it andyou're praying, you don't get
the.
You know the white screen ofdeath.
I don't know if you've everseen that there's nothing worse.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
Yeah, but I think that you're really talking to my
audience right now because theyhave been sold so many times,
like it'll take 10 minutes andthen they're like well, I was on
tech support all day or I hadto purchase, like I got started
on WordPress but then I realizedlike oh, my host is a totally
separate platform, so I have toget on with my host and then
(10:59):
talk to WordPress.
Like it's just, it's so manykind of Frankenstein pieces of
tech that are put together andthey get really overwhelmed or
they just kind of shut down.
They're like no, I'll just usewhat you know, I have through
Buzzsprout and I, like you know,buzzsprout has built this
beautiful website.
But to your point.
It's like you can't do all theother integrations, Like I can't
(11:22):
connect.
I use kit for my email serviceprovider, so it's like I can't
natively collect those, or Ican't host, you know, my web, my
YouTube, on there.
So I love that you talk aboutall the different features, but
I think for someone that's stillsaying, but Dave, it really
can't be that simple.
I would love for you just tokind of give another example of
(11:44):
if someone has just startedtheir podcast let's say they're
launching in the next month andthey're really excited what
advice would you give to someonewho is just getting started?
Do you tell people well, youshould also launch your podcast
and your website at the sametime.
Or is your advice to do let'sget your podcast going and then
(12:04):
we'll focus on your website?
I'm just curious how easy it isto kind of have these two going
at the same time or separately.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
Yeah, I usually say get a trailer of some sort, and
it could simply be like hey,this is going to be the future
home of the you know, daveJackson Power Hour.
Check it out atDaveJacksonPowerHourcom.
And that's a fake website.
I'm just making this up.
But you could throw that there,because you need one episode
live to go into Apple andSpotify and all these other
places and you could just havethat on your website and then
(12:34):
it's there and then you know,now it's.
I mean, you can make a websitewithout a podcast on pod page,
but it's just so much easierwhen you have a podcast going
already and so you could setthat up and then, you know,
again, have a newsletter.
It's like, hey, be one of thefirst to know when this goes
live, which is what I did withone of my last shows.
And then I had a fair number ofpeople sign up for that and, as
(12:58):
I was getting ready to launch,I'm like, hey, here's the first
episode.
This isn't really live yet, butnow I've got my focus group and
I can email them and go hey,you know, give me feedback on
this, good and bad, either one.
I'm making this show for youand I want it to resonate with
you.
So, if you get a chance, listento this.
And I just threw in a Dropboxand people download.
Oh, that's really good.
What's are you going to do this?
(13:19):
Oh, I hadn't thought of that.
I guess it will now, and so,yeah, it's good to have that.
And then the bonus of that isit just starts you.
It gives Google a chance tostart finding you sooner, and so
it doesn't have to be you knowthis big, you know amazing
website.
It just has to be somethingthere for people to find.
And then the other one is whenyou do launch and it's there,
(13:42):
then you're already set forpeople to start sharing it and
linking back to it and thingslike that.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
Yeah, that's awesome.
That's awesome.
What do you see are like thebiggest mistakes that people do
make, though?
Like whenever they're settingup a website, or they're like,
oh you know, I keep, I keepsending people here, but I just
I don't know, like maybe they'renot great at copywriting or
they focus so much on just likekind of making it pretty, but
(14:07):
it's not really something thatyou know.
It's like I don't get a lot oftraffic.
People always ask me of coursethat's like the number one.
It's like okay, I set thisthing up, but my mom and I are
the only people that go there,so can you kind of speak to that
?
Speaker 2 (14:19):
Yeah, it's well number one.
It's super easy to take GoogleAnalytics, which is free, and
put it in a pod page so you canstart tracking how much traffic
am I getting where it's coming,in true Google fashion.
You kind of get to know whatyour visitor had for lunch two
weeks ago.
I mean, it really gives you aton of information on that.
So that's an easy thing interms of just seeing who's
(14:40):
coming here.
The other one is, I think,again just getting feedback.
I have seen somebody because wehave a Facebook group and I'm
like, hey, put a link to yourpod page.
And sometimes I'm like I'mgoing to put money down that
they're colorblind because browntext on a green background.
I'm like not quite sure that'sgoing to work, that kind of
(15:02):
thing.
But the other one is, and it'slike when I make show notes.
So if I'm using Captivate and Iput in my kind of summary at
the beginning, here's what thisshow is about, here's the links
that I might have talked aboutand I might have.
Captivate has that cool AI tool.
It gives you your takeaways.
I'm like, yeah, let's use those, but it's, you know, a
(15:24):
paragraph and a half.
When it gets to pod page, I cannow go into that and like, oh,
we're in the land of Google nowand I can add a few more
paragraphs, because Google lovesgood words and the key there is
good words, and especially if Ican spell out a story or
something that maybe I put inthere, because, yes, google
loves good words, but right noweverybody and their brother's
(15:45):
like, hey, chat, gpt, give me3,000 words on this, and if you
can lean into the fact thatyou're a person and your
personal experience withsomething, that's going to make
you stand out.
But going back to Zeta, she wasjust featured in US News and
World Report because they weredoing a thing on surviving the
holidays when you're grievingbecause she unfortunately lost
(16:07):
her spouse.
And how did they find her?
Her website, and one of thethings they found was her
transcript, which you can put inthe pod page, and so I always
kind of say they got to find youfirst before they hear you or
see you or whatever it is.
And so it's just, I've alwaysexplained that your website
should be like your, that's,your home base, and then think
(16:27):
of it like the sun, and then youknow your Instagram, your blue
sky, your Twitter, your LinkedIn, your Instagram, all that stuff
.
They're little planets, thatkind of float around that
occasionally come into reallypopularity.
And then there were things likeI don't know Clubhouse right,
remember when that was theeverybody and their brother was
on Clubhouse until they weren't?
And so you don't want to putall your eggs in a basket that
(16:51):
you don't own.
And when you have your domain,even if you're not using PodPage
, you can point that at whatever.
So I've had things that I had adomain and I pointed it at a
product that was basically anaffiliate link for something on
Amazon, but it just made it easyfor people to buy and then that
product just ceased to happen.
I'm like, well, what ifsomebody is looking for this?
(17:11):
And I just pointed at somethingelse.
So when you have your website,when you have your domain,
you're really in control ofwhat's going on.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
Yeah, I mean between us, I don't even know how many
podcast events that we've beento.
But the number one question, orthe number one pain point, is
discoverability.
And you did, you just hit onlike that can solve so many.
We're not saying you're goingto get millions of website views
tomorrow, but at the same timeyou are opening up the
(17:40):
opportunity to pop up in Google,pop up in these other searches
that otherwise you may not getthat data scraped on just a
podcast platform.
So it absolutely can help withdiscoverability.
But, to your point.
I think it just makes it somuch easier to say your domain,
that's it.
You don't have to remember allthese weird numbers and letters
to like whatever your host isusing, or if it's Apple or
(18:03):
Spotify, like whatever.
And you know, I don't knowabout you, but I've rebranded my
podcast a few times actuallyand my Apple ID is still my very
original show.
So if you're sharing that, likeover time, like it still says
the rookie life, I'm like Ihaven't been the rookie life
since 2019.
So that's not helpful to shareanywhere.
(18:26):
So yeah, I'm.
I mean, all day long, I'm goingto continue to preach that
podcast websites are reallywhere we need to go.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
But yeah, go ahead.
You'd asked about mistakes.
One thing I do see people do is, whoever your media host is,
sometimes they'll I call it ajukebox.
It's like it's a player withmultiple episodes and so what
they'll do they're like, oh,look at this, I can just put
this on this page and then itupdates.
Every time I put out a newepisode.
(18:54):
The player shows a new thingand I'm done, and it is set it
and forget it.
It has absolutely I mean almostnegative.
It's so zero SEO.
That's not getting you any helpBecause really at that point
it's like somebody cut a littlesquare in your website and stuck
a player in it, but that playeris actually on your media host,
so all the text that's in thatplayer and everything else is
just there's zero SEO.
(19:15):
So I always say treat everyepisode kind of like a blog.
You know your show notes areyour blog post and then you just
throw a player in it and presto, you know, and then make sure
to have your follow buttonsthere for Apple and Spotify and
whoever else.
But yeah, when I see peoplelike, oh yeah, it's on my
website and I go there and it'sjust that that little jukebox,
(19:35):
I'm like, oh, okay, that's.
That's better than nothing, butyou're missing out on a lot of
SEO juice yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
Yeah, yeah, and I'm so curious, and this is one of
the.
This is one of those questionsthat I don't even know myself,
but I've been getting asked alot.
It's like okay, with AI, andlike the way that the world is
changing, consumers are changingtoo.
It's like where, where is SEOgoing?
And I've seen so much of like,oh, seo is going to die, or SEO
is going to be this, or SEO isgoing to be that, and I'm just a
(20:04):
firm believer that, like I'mjust going to keep showing up
and do what's working while it'sworking.
But I'm curious what's yourtake on that?
Speaker 2 (20:11):
Yeah it's, I hear that a lot.
I don't know that Google'sgoing anywhere anytime soon.
I do know that every now andthen I'll go there and there's
some sort of AI, you know resultand that's kind of like hmm,
and what I've always done overthe years is I write for people.
You know I'll get these toolsand you end up saying you know,
if you're doing a show about, Idon't know, snowboarding, and
(20:36):
it's like every seventh word islike when you're snowboarding,
you want to make sure thatsnowboarding is fun for you,
because snowboarding and you'rejust like, okay, like that's not
, I'm not writing for people,I'm writing for something that
says you need to saysnowboarding 87 times a
paragraph and I'm like no, I'mnot doing that.
So I've always written forpeople, I've recorded for people
, I'm trying to reach myaudience.
(20:57):
And it's funny because on aevery now and then I'll have
somebody come in and they'relike hey, I want to do an SEO,
you know, audit for you and Ican make you rank.
And they'll come in and likewhy are you ranked really good?
And I'm like what are you using?
And I go, I write for people.
I go, I write for people,that's all I do?
I mean, I occasionally willlike when it's like there's
plugins and WordPress, there'sall sorts of stuff where it'll
(21:20):
kind of give you a score andthat's in pod page as well.
And there are times I'm like,oh wait, if I use this keyword
instead of that, you know I'llget a better score, and I'm like
, all right, well, we'll do that, but I really don't spend a
huge amount of time on it and Iseem to rank pretty well.
So it's one of those thingswhere but it does make you
worried.
But again, 70% this is perJacobs Media 70% of podcasts are
(21:44):
discovered via word of mouthand so you want them to go.
Oh yeah, it's called the youknow Crystal Prophet Show, power
Hour, you know zany time,whatever, you know, et cetera,
et cetera.
Oh, just, it's an Apple podcast, just go find it.
I'm like, no, you don't want tosay go find it.
Definitely don't say go find itin Spotify.
(22:06):
But if they send you to awebsite, there it is, and now
you're in control.
And then the other thing abouthaving a website is the fact
that you're now one click awayTo me.
A website and email list gohand in hand, because you know,
at the end one of the things Ihear a lot of podcasters do that
I go.
That's not working becausethey're like, hey, follow me on
Twitter X or Blue Sky or this,and that Don't forget to get my
(22:26):
lead magnet.
And, while you're there, leavea five-star review and you're
like it's 17 calls to action.
And really I'm starting toswitch to.
My call to action is here's mylead net magnet join my email
list, because once you're on theemail list, I can ask you all
those other things you know andI'm in your one click away
(22:54):
you're not on the treadmill, youknow.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
So that's another advantage of both that website
and the email address.
Well, I mean, I feel like wecould go.
I mean, just from that littlesnippet there, we could go in
like 17 different directions,because I told Dave before we
started I was like I lovetalking to other podcast nerds
because these are the thingsthat I think about all the time
and the things that I tellpeople and I'm in conversation
with podcasters.
But I know you said that youjust recently got back from
(23:15):
PodFest.
I wasn't able to go this year,but tell us, was there anything
that was fun or exciting orsomething that you know is
noteworthy to take away?
If you know no one's ever beento that event, or if just, what
was podcast or pod fest 2025like for you?
Speaker 2 (23:31):
well for me because I've gone to every one.
It's like summer camp.
So when I go back there, uhit's, you know, I'm seeing all
sorts of new people as as wellas catching up with old people
that I've I've known forever.
Um, the thing I love about podfest or podcast movement or any
of these, you don't have toexplain to anybody what a
podcast is yes, and you andyou're instantly like oh what,
(23:52):
and it's one of the bestcommunities.
Because I've had people like, ohwell, what I did was, you know,
I advertised in Overcast for amonth and got you know 27 more
subscribers or whatever, andeverybody's sharing their
secrets.
And it's not like well, if Ishare my secrets, well then
you'll use them too.
It's like no, it's like we'renot really competition, and so
(24:13):
that part was great.
I'm trying to think of the.
I got involved with the Hall ofFame.
I got to induct two people,which was fun.
And if you want a fun exercise,take somebody that you've known
for 19 years and summarize themin two minutes, because us
podcasters, getting to the point, not always our strong suit, so
(24:40):
that was kind of fun.
And I think, if there'sanything big takeaways,
buzzsprout had the best swag.
They had a key chain that waslaser engraved as you waited.
That was pretty cool.
That was like well, that beatsa t-shirt.
So that was laser engraved asyou waited.
That was pretty cool.
That was like well, that beatsa t-shirt.
So that was kind of fun.
But the biggest thing I try totell people when I'm there is
you can kind of see the newpeople and by like day three
(25:00):
they're kind of walking dead,zombie-ish, because there's just
so much information and they'rejust overwhelmed.
And I was talking to this onewoman.
She'd come up to the Podpagebooth and I said how's it going?
She's like I don't know.
I'm like this is.
It just seems like so much.
And I said, well, I just needto let you know.
You're a hundred percent normal.
Right now.
(25:20):
I go, you're sitting therethinking everybody else gets
this and I don't, and I don'teven know where to start.
I go, that's 100% normal.
I said, just figure out, likemake a list of all this stuff
that you just heard, figure outwhere you want to start and just
you know how do you eat anelephant, one bite at a time.
I'm like just do that one at atime and go from there.
(25:41):
But no, it was a good time.
Anytime you can.
You know, see the.
If you can tell me the eyecolor of your listener, you're
in the right spot.
And so for me, you know that ismy target audience.
So it was a good time.
And I kind of sound like rightnow I'm battling a cold.
But after PodFest I soundedlike this, because the last
night they always have this bigblowout DJ party, and so you're
(26:04):
going to people going tell meabout your podcast, and so you
wake up on Sunday.
I woke up on Sunday.
It sounded like James EarlJones.
I was like Luke, I am yourfather, you know.
It was like geez, where'd myvoice go?
It's crazy.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
Oh my gosh.
Well, it's so funny too becauseit's so different, because I've
been to so many differentcreator events and, man, there's
nothing like a pod fest or apodcast movement, because you go
and you just realize I've beentalking for eight hours straight
or people have been talking atme.
My husband went with me oneyear it was the 2023 in Vegas
(26:38):
and it was evolutions for apodcast movement and we went and
he was like, yeah, this will befun, you know I'll go with you,
and it was, you know, ourspring break and we enjoyed it.
But he was like, oh my gosh,there's just people talking
everywhere and I was like, babe,what did you think?
We literally love to talk, andso that's what I love about
(27:00):
going and experiencing this.
So, for anyone, this is a PSAfor anyone that's listening.
If you haven't been to a podcastevent and you're looking to
really be in community with morepeople, then I highly recommend
it.
Are you planning on going toany other big events that our
listeners may see you at thisyear?
Speaker 2 (27:17):
Yeah, I'm going to both Podcast Movement and
Podcast Movement Evolutions andI'm kind of looking for other
ones.
I know Social Media MarketingWorld is out there.
That's not.
I mean that has a podcastingkind of you know promotion vibe.
So I've been to that one.
That's amazing where you go tothese after parties on an
aircraft carrier, you're likewait what you know.
So, but some of the ones I usedto go to, like there was one in
(27:41):
Philadelphia called Joe Pardo'sevent it was podcast
Mid-Atlantic back in the day andI don't think Joe's doing that
anymore.
And then there was one inWashington that was PodFest,
something, something, and it'sgone.
So if you're thinking ofstarting an event, there's room.
So it's a lot of fun.
And then you always end up with.
(28:02):
I always say if you getbusiness cards or if you're
scanning QR codes, follow upwith those people, cause I know
there's a few that I want tohave on my show.
So that's going to be a fun too.
It's great networking.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
Absolutely.
I've actually had severalpeople that I've met at other
conferences here.
You know they get to talkingand you're like, oh, like we're
kind of in the same niche orwe're kind of doing the same,
we're helping the same kind ofperson, like let's do some promo
swaps, or you know, like let'slet's collaborate in some fun
way.
I think that that's what's,that's what's really cool about
it, and I think that it justexponentially expands your
(28:35):
network whenever you can findthose key people.
And it's not going to be everyperson that you meet, but that's
okay.
Like you're just you're, you'rehere to get help along the way.
Like lean into those resources.
I'm curious, like for you know,I'm just totally putting you on
the spot and asked you toprepare this but who's like the
biggest?
Like, oh my gosh, I can'tbelieve I met that person in the
(28:58):
podcast space.
It could be a celebrity in anyother kind of realm, but
podcasting is really thecatalyst that led you to meeting
someone important in your life.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
Boy, that is a good one.
Probably last year, because Iagain I got to induct somebody
into the Hall of Fame and DrDrew was the emcee.
And so I'm just backstagehanging with Dr Drew and you're
like, okay, that's Dr Drew.
I'm trying to think of otherpeople.
(29:29):
I remember once I was at Ithink it was Podcast Movement,
and there's a bunch ofpodcasters in Tennessee.
It's Michael Hyatt.
If you've never read his bookPlatform, that's a good one.
Ray Edwards who's this mastercopywriter?
And both those guys were inthis room because Michael was
going to speak.
And I sat down and I look overand there's Ray Edwards and I'm
(29:52):
like, oh my goodness, it's RayEdwards.
He's sitting right there, likeyou know, and so I talked to him
and Ray's just the nicest,kindest soul you've ever met.
He's like, oh, dave, I've heardof your show and I'm like Ray
Edwards heard of my show.
And then there was somethingwhere they went to Q&A and so I
(30:16):
asked Michael Hyatt because hewas presenting a question.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
He's like oh hey, dave, I listened to your show
and I was like, no, I didn'tcall him.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
He listened to my show.
Yeah, that's it.
And I still I was.
Who was I just listening to?
Blueberry has a show, so it wasTodd Cochran and Dave from his
team and they were talking aboutPodFest and he's like.
I got to meet Dave Jackson,which to me I was like, well,
big deal.
But the fact that they said myname on a show, I was like, oh,
they said my name.
So, yeah, we all get giddy whensomebody gets recognized or
(30:42):
they say our name and thingslike that.
So it's been fun, yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
And I was going to say I think it just goes back to
.
It's something that we say onthe show all the time too is
like how can you create thatexperience for your audience and
your listeners?
Like you know whether it'shaving like a shout out,
especially, you know, if youhave an email service provider
connected to your pod page,because everyone's going to go
check out pod page.
Like I already told Dave, I waslike I've got my affiliate link
(31:07):
set up.
We are absolutely promoting podpage because if you wanted to
start a website in 2025, that'sone of your big goals Go use
PodPage, because it really is sosimple.
And I want you to figure out away to also connect your email
service provider so that you canhave a feedback loop to get
feedback on your podcast,because so many people tell me,
(31:30):
like I see that people arelistening, but I don't, I don't
know.
Like to your point earlier, Iwas like is it good?
Can you go listen to this?
Can I get feedback somehow?
So I want everyone to do that,that way that you can have this
rapport with your audience,where it's not just oh, I can
see there's 17 people listeningin Texas or 25 listening, you
(31:51):
know, in in the UK.
Like no, you're like, oh,that's probably Dave, like he's,
he's over there listening, youknow, and I know that that's him
, because I think that it iscool to give those shout outs on
your show and have thatpersonal connection because,
just like Dave and I, like I getso giddy.
I remember it was 2021 podcastmovement and I stood up and
asked Mark Cuban a questionthere you go.
(32:14):
That is still like solidified aslike a huge highlight.
I went home and told the kidsof course they're like you mean
from Shark Tank.
They don't know him from theMavs or anything else they're
like from Shark Tank.
I was like, yes, mark Cuban, soit's like these little things
that you can do to create magicin your own podcasting journey,
and I think that Dave is such agreat example.
(32:35):
I'm curious how many podcastepisodes if you had to guess
have you published in yourcareer?
Speaker 2 (32:41):
Over 3,000.
Easy, oh, wow.
I mean, the School ofPodcasting has 960 something.
Ask the podcast coach, yourpodcast consultant.
I've started over 30 shows Nowsome of them coach your podcast
consultant.
I've started over 30 shows Now.
Some of them lasted like.
I remember one it was thecustomer service show and I
think I made it to six episodestill it dawned on me, oh, that's
(33:02):
my job, not my passion, and sothat was the end of that.
I started the Dates from Hellshow on a dare.
I was married at the time andmyself and my ex-wife were
swapping horror stories on datesand somebody said this should
be a podcast.
And we did it, and then weasked the audience to share
their stories and then it dawnedon me that A what's the number
(33:23):
one fear among people?
Oh, that's right, speaking inpublic.
And what do I want you to do?
Throw yourself under the bus.
So it's hard to do a kind ofcrowd show, a feedback show,
when you don't have a crowd yet.
And so we had just started.
We both had maybe four stories,so we made about eight episodes
and ran out of stuff.
But you're talking about, youknow, getting your audience
(33:44):
involved.
Podpage has a built-in voicemailtool and again, it's all about
your brand.
So yourwebsite com slashvoicemail.
And recently Tom Webster,speaking of the Hall of Fame,
was just inducted last week, hasa great book called the
Audience is Listening and in itare a bunch of really great
questions to ask your audienceto really find out.
(34:04):
You know, what do you think ofmy show?
And so PodPage approached himand said hey, tom, you have all
these questions like can we usethose and make them a survey in
pod page.
And he's like can you put alink to my book at the top of
that on the dashboard?
I'm like, yes, we can.
And so if you're looking for away to find out, does my
audience even like this stuff?
You've got to build in survey.
(34:25):
And again, we make it.
It's just your websitecom slashsurvey and then you can
actually add I think there's 19questions and I don't know that
I would use them all, but youcan pick the ones you want.
And then there's five at thebottom you can customize
completely to you.
And so many times I kind ofdon't get that because I, if
somebody comes to me, they'relike, yeah, my podcast isn't
(34:45):
growing the way I want.
And I'm like, okay, well, whatdid you see when you did a
survey?
And they're like I haven't donea survey yet.
I'm like, well, you know, theeasiest way to find out if your
audience likes it is to ask themand I realized that spooky, you
know that's when people findout.
You can go into podcasts,connectapplecom and see how far
people listen and they're like,oh amazing.
And I'm like, well, it can alsobe soul crushing.
(35:07):
Just so you know.
When you go in and you see likewow, they bailed after 42%,
like well, you know that's theway it is.
So yeah, but feedback's awesomeand important and it's fun.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
Yeah, I think data is your friend right.
Like everyone, people are soscared.
But at the end of the day, theway that I look at it, it's like
data.
It's just the truth.
That's right.
It's facts.
It's not the emotion of beingscared to create or the emotion
of interviewing someone like itis just facts and then you can
decide what you want to do withit.
But if you haven't gone intothe different tools and really
(35:40):
analyze things, then you may notknow.
You're just kind of shooting,you know darts in the with a
blindfold on and you're notreally sure what's going to
happen, and so I totally agreelike have these tools set up.
And you just actually made methink I was like oh, I need to
do a YouTube, like on pod page,like a deep dive on like how to
do all this because surveys aremy jam.
(36:01):
Like I love to talk aboutsurveys and I think that they
are so helpful, but I love thatyou said like it's just a
built-in feature that people canutilize, because that just it
removes the technical piecesthat you have to think about.
All you have to do is like, hey, like you can even start with
these questions, like here theseare the ones that typically
perform well in a survey andthey'll give you helpful
(36:24):
information that can really takethat audience feedback and you
can just do so much with it.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
But I've seen people that they sent out this survey
and this guy does a daily showand it was really starting to
burn him to a crisp because it'sa lot of content and a lot of
and one of the feedback he gotfrom a survey was like, yeah, we
don't really need a daily show,can we make this like maybe two
times a week?
And here he was all worriedthat if he, you know, backed
(36:50):
down like and it's like no, theysaid it was more than one
person was like we love the showbut, like you know, I haven't
really finished with the firstepisode and I got three more in
the, you know, waiting for me tolisten to.
So he was like, oh, all right,that's good to know, because you
know he was really burninghimself out.
Speaker 1 (37:07):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, I want to go back to youwere talking about starting and
stopping multiple podcasts.
Speaker 2 (37:15):
And.
Speaker 1 (37:15):
I want to ask you a question that would be helpful
for someone, let's say, isprobably in the first three to
six months of their podcast.
They've gotten up, they've hitthat critical number of like OK,
I'm past 10 episodes, I'm stillpublishing, I'm still
publishing.
But what I see so often in myaudience is they hit this number
(37:39):
around 15 to 20 and they'relike oh, I think I picked the
wrong audience or I think Ipicked the wrong topic or I
think I picked the wrong title.
Like they start having this likekind of buyer's remorse of like
oh, I don't know that I'm doingthis correctly, or maybe they
have gotten feedback.
And I'm just curious, you know,with all the podcasters you've
worked with, or maybe even inyour own experience, like what
(38:00):
do you do when you get to thatpoint You're kind of wrestling
with do I continue on thisjourney and things will get
better, or do I just go aheadand reanalyze things and see
what the next steps are?
Speaker 2 (38:12):
Yeah, that's a great question.
The cause to me I always say mylittle bumper sticker is your
podcast is a recipe, it's not astatue.
And so you may have thought,well, I'm going to do this and
this and this, and all of asudden you do it for six months.
You're like, wow, I'mattracting a bunch of people
that I had not intended toattract.
And that's when you go okay,are these people going to get
(38:34):
you to whatever your why is?
And I always say you need toknow your why and your who.
And the hard part is it's whatcan I talk about to this who
people?
So, because you can't say men25 to 50, because there's a big
difference between a 25-year-oldand a 50-year-old.
So, when you got your niche andyou got your why, when you
overlap that, what can I talkabout?
That's either going to educateor entertain the who, but slowly
(38:57):
move them towards my why.
Because if you don't get yourwhy, you burn out.
If you don't educate andentertain, then you never grow
your audience.
So that's the hard part, andwrong is relative there.
Maybe you know air quotes here.
Then you have to figure outokay, but can these people get
(39:21):
me to my why?
And it's either like okay,these people want to talk about
topic B, I'm talking about topicA, but they want to talk about
topic B.
Okay, do I want to talk?
Do I have the same passion fortopic B?
And if the answer is no, Idon't really want to talk about
what they want to talk about.
Well, you've attracted kind ofthe wrong audience and it's
going to be hard to do, but youneed to tweak your message
because you're just attractingthe wrong people and that means
(39:42):
the people that are here areprobably going to leave, and
that's so hard to go ugh, youknow.
Or if these people, oh, yeah,this will work.
I know I had a friend of mineand he was doing a show,
something about fitness, and itwas supposed to be fitness for
men, and he goes, everybody'slistening is female.
And I'm like, okay, like, doesthat matter?
(40:03):
And he's like, well, no,because in the end I can help
females too.
And I'm like, well, there yougo.
But sometimes, if you'relooking for a specific audience
but yeah, my first podcast was,I rebranded three times because
it just it started off it wasthe musician's cyber cooler,
because back then, back in theday, you know, it was cyberspace
.
And then cyberspace was reallysynonymous I can't even say that
(40:27):
word to cyber sex and I'm like,oh well, we got to lose the
cyber word.
So then it was the musician'scooler Big picture of a water
cooler tagline, where musicianscome to trade advice and people
are like, so like a wine cooler?
And I'm like, no.
And then I rebranded it againthe marketing musician, where
musicians come to trade it andthey find, oh, okay, I get it
now.
So that's why I always say yourpodcast is not a statue, you
(40:51):
can rebrand it, it's your show.
That's one of the beautifulthings about it.
And so sometimes we do thingsand it doesn't work out the
right way.
And that's where some peopleare like oh, it didn't work, I
failed.
No, no, that's called a lessonand you learn that doing this
results in this.
So let's try a differentstimulus and see who it attracts
(41:12):
and go from there.
Speaker 1 (41:14):
Yeah, and I think we have that same approach.
That's the first time I'veheard that it's not a statue,
it's a recipe.
That's fantastic.
The thing that we say aroundhere is there are no rules in
podcasting.
There's guidelines, but there'sno rules.
You get to make and break therules at any point of your show
(41:35):
and I think that people get sogrounded in, like a YouTube
video that they watched or apodcast episode that they heard
one time, like five years ago,and they're locked into.
This is the only way that I cando it.
So I love the recipe metaphorbecause it is.
It's like you want to switch upsome ingredients.
Maybe you want something alittle bit spicier, or maybe
you're like, ooh, I'm ready forthe mild stuff.
Like it's been a littlehardcore around here.
I want to do something a littlebit easier.
(41:56):
So I love that.
This has been so incredible,dave, and, like I said, this has
been just, I think, greatinsights to a podcasting journey
and what it can look like, butalso how.
Again, I'm just going to keepsaying it is like everyone needs
a podcast website in 2025.
Like y'all have, dave hasstripped all the excuses of why
(42:17):
you can't start, so we're goingto have links to check out
PodPage and you know it's likeI've already said, like it's I
have an affiliate link with it.
It's I shout out PodPage in mycourse Profit Podcasting because
I want you to have resourcesthat make it really simple,
really easy for you to getstarted.
But, dave, I have a few rapidfire questions.
Speaker 2 (42:39):
I will do my best.
Speaker 1 (42:43):
It's okay if you get a long winded, because I think
that you're going to have somegreat answers for these.
Speaker 2 (42:48):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (42:49):
So the first one is what piece of advice would you
give to a brand new podcaster orcontent creator?
Speaker 2 (42:55):
Don't worry about making money.
You don't monetize a podcast,you monetize an audience.
So focus on growing youraudience.
I would spend my.
My bumper sticker is spend ahundred dollars on a microphone
and then spend a hundred hoursfiguring out who your audience
is and what they want.
Speaker 1 (43:10):
Oh my gosh Like okay, that's the quotable for this
episode.
Speaker 2 (43:13):
That was fantastic.
Speaker 1 (43:15):
That's really good.
I feel like you've said that afew times.
Speaker 2 (43:17):
I have.
That's what I said.
It's my bumper sticker.
Speaker 1 (43:19):
I love it Okay, my next question is a two-part
question.
Speaker 2 (43:22):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (43:23):
What is the dream podcast you would love to be on
and who is the dream podcastguest you would love to
interview?
Speaker 2 (43:31):
Oh man, that's a good one.
Joe Rogan wouldn't suck right,uh, to be on his show, be in
front of a couple million peopleat the same time.
Um, co-host, hmm, that's atough one.
I was going to say I got tointerview Adam Curry on stage
once.
That was fun, uh, cause that'sthe guy that invented podcasting
(43:52):
, and back in the day he was onMTV.
I would love and this is onlybecause I'm Dave and I play the
guitar I would love to interviewTed Nugent because A he's very
polarizing.
So you either love the guy oryou hate him, and I would just.
I got to meet his wife once.
That was as close as I got.
But that would be something Iwould love to interview, just
(44:13):
because I know enough about himfrom growing up to where.
It'd be fun to just in someways get his actual, honest
answer.
But other ways there's an easyway to poke that guy's buttons
and just have him go off.
Speaker 1 (44:24):
So I think that'd be fun and just see what happens.
It'd be fun just to watch, yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:35):
Okay, those are great , those are great.
And then my last question is doyou consider yourself a
perfectionist Boy?
That's a yes and no.
I aim for perfection, but theproblem is I should batch record
, but I do not.
So it is Wednesdays we recordthis.
I have an idea of what I'mtalking about, but my show goes
out Sunday night, it's basicallyMonday.
It's Sunday at midnight, whichis Monday, and so there just
(44:58):
comes a time when I've done allthe work I have all week and
it's like all right, this is asgood as it's going to get, and
most of the time I'm prettyhappy with it.
But there are times when I'mlike, oh, you know, I should
have you know that kind of thing.
But it's funny, there are thoseshows that you think are just
absolutely perfect, right, andyou're like, oh, cannot wait for
people the feedback I will wakeup to tomorrow morning.
(45:21):
And you wake up, it is justnothing but crickets.
And then I put one out.
I kind of hurried one togetherbecause I was in PodFest and I
had to have kind of two episodesready, one for the normal week
and one while I was travelingand I thought I kind of was like
oh, I always preach, I'd ratherhave a late show.
That was good than an on-timeshow.
That was meh.
(45:41):
And I was like this episode'skind of it's good enough, all
right, you know.
And I got home and I'm likethat was a really great episode.
I was like really Because in myhead I was like really Because
in my head I was like it's okayand so yeah, that's.
Speaker 1 (46:00):
I forget what the question is.
Now, that's funny.
No, it's great.
It was all about being aperfectionist?
Speaker 2 (46:02):
Yeah, so yes, I try to be.
Yeah, I aim it perfect.
And when you miss, you land onreally, really good.
Speaker 1 (46:07):
Yeah, I mean.
I think that that was just sucha fantastically honest answer,
because I think that so manypeople get stuck in that they
want to have something perfect.
They want to have somethingperfect and they're the ones
that listen or educatethemselves on podcasting for a
year.
I mean, it's a person thatyou've met multiple times at
PodFest and they still like theyhaven't ripped off that bandaid
(46:30):
and just put their show out.
So we would love to see y'allcreate imperfect shows and just
be consistent with it, becausethat's how you have that
longevity over time and you canbuild that audience.
But you got to show up and yougot to just get it going.
So thank you so much, dave.
This has been incredible today,and where can everybody find
(46:50):
you and learn more about all thefun things that you're doing?
Speaker 2 (46:53):
Yeah, my main website is schoolofpodcastingcom.
We mentioned that we havemultiple shows, so I have a
website just for that and that'sat powerofpodcastingcom.
Speaker 1 (47:02):
Okay, perfect, we're gonna link to those in the show
notes and, like I said, we'regonna talk all about PodPage
some more.
This is super fun to have youand, yeah, thanks for being on.
Speaker 2 (47:13):
Crystal, always great hanging out with you.
Speaker 1 (47:19):
I told you I guess I should say I warned you from the
beginning that we woulddefinitely be talking about
PodPage in today's episode andwe didn't disappoint, right?
We shared so many twists andturns of Dave and I's story and
it was just so much fun to catchup with him and chat with him
again, because it's one of thesethings that I love about what I
do as a coach and someonethat's in this space, because
(47:41):
someone would, on the surface orat face value, say, well,
aren't you and Dave kind ofcompetitors, aren't y'all doing
the same thing?
And kind of you know like,isn't that a little weird?
Absolutely not.
And it's what I love about thisindustry and the things that we
do, because collaboration isincredible and I actually saw
(48:04):
this post that Amy Porterfielddid recently where she was
talking about how thecollaborations in her journey
have really amplified hermessage and the people she's
trying to help and the thingsthat she's trying to achieve.
So I am leaning full into thisand I can't wait to collaborate
with other people in thepodcasting space.
(48:25):
But Dave was a big get and I amso excited that he came on and
shared so much wisdom about hisjourney and I hope that it
inspired you, that if you'rejust getting started and you're
wondering, you know, is thispodcasting thing going to pan
out for me?
I hope that you found value intoday's conversation because
(48:46):
it's worked out pretty well forboth Dave and I and we're really
excited to keep going andhelping you on this journey.
So make sure you check outSchool of Podcasting.
Go check out Dave's content.
If you loved his personality,please go check him out and all
the fun things that he's doing.
Again, I am a proud affiliate ofPodPage and I encourage you to
go check it out.
You can go to crystalprofitcomforward slash PodPage to check
(49:10):
out what they have to offer.
I know that there's many peoplein our Podcasters Connect
community that use Podpage andthey're really excited about it.
They're like I can do someintegrations on the back end and
make it just the way that Iwant it to be, and it's not a
heavy lift for me.
It's not this super big, clunkywebsite that I have to figure
out or figure out web design toget it to work.
(49:30):
They can get up and runningreally fast.
So I hope that I have to figureout or figure out web design to
get it to work.
They can get up and runningreally fast.
So I hope that you go check itout Again.
That's crystalprofitcom forwardslash pod page to check it out.
But thank you so much forlistening to today's episode.
If this is your first timetuning in, make sure you hit
that subscribe or follow buttonwherever you are listening.
(49:52):
Go check out Dave, see what heis up to and, as always,
remember, keep it up.
We all have to start somewhere.
Today's episode was a really fun interview for me.
I mean, don't get me wrong, Ihave so much fun with all the
folks that we interview here onthe podcast.
But this one was extra specialbecause I met today's guest in
person for the first time in2020 at a conference, and this
(00:23):
was like February 2020.
So it was before all the thingsthat happened in 2020 went down
, and it was really cool becauseit was one of my first.
It was actually my firstspeaking gig we'll call it as a
podcast coach and someonestepping into this space and it
(00:44):
was really cool to meet himbecause he kind of is a big deal
in podcasting.
So Dave Jackson is a pioneeringfigure in the podcast industry
and he started in 2005.
So here we are, 20 years laterand Dave has such a cool story.
With a background in educationand over two decades of
(01:06):
experience as a technicaltrainer, dave founded the School
of Podcasting to help others inlaunching and enhancing their
podcast.
So throughout his career, he'screated more than 20 podcasts,
contributing to over 3,000episodes, with a cumulative
download content exceeding 3million.
(01:27):
Pretty cool, right, like heknows his stuff.
And actually in 2018, dave wasinducted into the Academy of
Podcasters Hall of Fame,recognizing his significant
contributions to the field.
Then, in August 2024, hetransitioned from his role at
Libsyn to join Podpage, whichwe've talked about.
(01:49):
Podpage in this episode.
Today, we're going toextensively talk about why it's
important to have a website foryour podcast.
So if you've been debating like, which tool should I use or
what does that look like, we getinto all the details on what
that looks like and why it'sstill so important to have a
website for your content.
(02:09):
But I won't make you wait anylonger.
Here's my chat with DaveJackson.
Let's get right to it.
Welcome to the Profit Podcast,where we teach you how to start,
launch and market your contentwith confidence.
I'm your host, crystal Profit,and I'm so excited that you're
here.
Thanks for hanging out with metoday, because if you've been
(02:31):
trying to figure out the worldof content creation, this is the
show that will help be yourtime-saving shortcut.
So let's get right to it, shallwe All right?
Prophet Podcast listeners, wehave an extra special guest on
the show today.
So welcome, Dave, so happy tohave you.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Crystal, happy to always connect here and nerd out
on podcasting and all thingsinternet.
Looking forward to this.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
Yeah, this is going to be really fun.
We were just talking before westarted recording about just
kind of the different journeysthat you've had and the
different ups and downs and ofthe different journeys that
you've had and the different upsand downs and lefts and rights
that you've had in your podcastjourney.
But if someone's brand new toyou, then can you tell them a
little bit about your journey asa podcaster and the things that
you've done in the podcastspace?
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Sure, I've been podcasting since 2005.
Had a friend of mine come backfrom a conference and he said
hey, you know how you missed theMySpace boat, which again kind
of ages me here.
He's like I've just seen thenext thing.
It's going to be podcasting.
And I Googled it and there wasone and a half pages.
I'm like how do you spell that?
Again, you know so I've beendoing it since 2005.
(03:39):
That's when I launched theSchool of Podcasting.
Along the years, because of mypodcast, I worked for Libsyn for
eight years and was the head ofpodcast education over there,
and then last year nothing wrongwith Libsyn, this was just a
better fit for me I moved overto Podpage, but it's been a fun
time.
We go back to the days ofhand-coding your feed.
(04:01):
I have a piece of equipment inmy closet that I think I paid
800 bucks for and I could getthe same thing now for 150 bucks
and it's like so it's funwatching all the tools and
everything come into podcasting,just to make it easier and
easier.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
Yeah, I mean, I'm just blown away from whenever I
started in 2018.
And I remember I recorded thosefirst episodes on Skype and I
know people that are listeningthey're like wait, what?
Like?
It's like, yeah, but you haveto.
Everybody remember, like before2020, zoom wasn't widely, you
know, used in all the spaces andpeople felt super comfortable
(04:35):
with it, so we had to getcreative.
I mean, I was doing like Skypeand doing like multiple other
devices.
It's like, okay, you record onyour end, I'm going to record on
mine, just because it wasn'treliable.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
So one of my first interviews I got a suction cup
that stuck to your phone and ithad a cable run out of it and I
think I put it into my computer,maybe even to a cassette, and I
got that from Radio Shack.
So neither Radio Shack or thesuction cup recorder are around
anymore.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
Oh my gosh.
Yeah, I mean I think that we'veseen so many different things
and, like I mean I know we soundlike the people that have been
around forever but it's so true,it's like people in 2025 have
no idea how easy they have it tostart, like you could do
everything from your phone ifyou wanted to.
You could do everything forunder $100 to get started very
(05:26):
easily, from equipment tosoftware to everything.
So I feel like, you know, it'sjust a really fun time and when
I think about you know, I wastelling Dave before we started
recording I was like my audienceis a.
It's the perfect blend ofbeginners and those seasoned
podcasters, and we talked aboutyou moving over to PodPage and I
(05:48):
wanted to specifically talkabout why podcast websites.
This is the thing I've beentrying to beat into everybody's
head.
I'm like you have to have awebsite for your podcast and
they're like, yeah, but I havethis or I have that.
So can you just tell us alittle bit about, I guess, your
philosophy on having a podcastwebsite, why it's important and
(06:08):
all the things?
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Yeah, I mean, I worked at Libsyn for eight years
and part of that was techsupport and I'm here to tell you
at least once a month, if nottwo or three, somebody would
send in a ticket.
Hey, I just got notified thatmy podcast is now on Apple, but
yet when I go over and searchfor it it doesn't show up.
I'm like, what's the name ofyour show?
And they'd be like, okay, and Iwould type it in the exact name
(06:31):
.
I'm like is there any kind offunny spelling here?
And it just wouldn't show up.
I remember there was one.
It was something like homefixer-upper helper, something
like that Typed in the exactsame nothing.
And then and sometimes this isin Spotify as well, it's not
just an Apple thing and then Ityped in his name, because
that's what he had for theauthor, which is what you should
(06:52):
do Type in his name.
He came right up.
But if you said, oh, I'm thesuch and such podcast and people
searched, it just doesn't showup.
I mean, Libsyn's podcast iscalled the Feed and if you don't
type in the feed Libsyn, it'snot going to show up.
And so when I have kind of likeone of those, one big tear
comes out of my right eye.
When I hear somebody say youknow, find me wherever you find
(07:12):
your podcast, I'm in the carscreaming no, don't say that,
it's much better.
One of the things you can dowith pod page is you go get your
link to Apple and Spotify atleast I might add a few more,
but at least those two and youput them in a pod page and it
automatically makes a slashfollow.
So if it's, you know, whatevermywebsitecom slash follow number
(07:34):
one.
I've reinforced my brand, I'vebeat that into their head again,
and now they can go over andwhatever app they want to listen
to, it's one click away.
Whatever app they want tolisten to, it's one click away.
And so I mean, that's just oneexample Going back to the early
days of the internet, hence thegray hair.
But there was a big websitecalled mp3.com and I'm a
(07:55):
musician and there weremusicians that were making a
living selling their music onmp3.com and they'd be like, oh,
just go to mp3.com, slash Dave,and that's all they said.
They had business cards withmp3.com, slash Dave, and then
people started uploading stuffthat they didn't know and they
were sued and sold, and sued andsold.
And mp3.com I don't know what'sthere now, but basically, and
(08:16):
none of these people had theirown website and so it went away
and that kind of just happened.
Now with TikTok you had allthese people hey, my TikTok is
my main thing, but you'rebuilding your house on rented
land.
You don't really own that.
And when that went away, if youdidn't have a website or a
(08:36):
newsletter or something youraudience is like, have fun
finding Dave Jackson, there are8 billion of us, right?
I have a really common name.
So by having a website, youknow it can help One of my
clients.
Her name is Zita Christian.
She does a show called mySpouse has Dementia and she
called me up the one day andsaid hey, I know you work at
(08:58):
Podpage.
Can you walk me through settingthis up, because she'll tell
you she's over 70, right, soshe's, she's not.
You know she's, she's some.
But the thing I love about Zita, she is not afraid of
technology.
She just says it might take mea little longer and we had her
set up in 10 minutes.
It's.
It's one of the things wherethat's the marketing thing and
you go.
Well, you can set your websiteup in 10 minutes.
(09:19):
No, you can seriously set yourwebsite up in 10 minutes.
And she's like oh, I can dothat.
And I'm like okay, well, do youhave an email list?
Oh yeah, I use whatever Aweber,mailchimp or whatever.
I'm like oh so log in.
Okay, copy that little bit ofcode there.
Okay, go into pod page and nowpaste it.
Okay, cool, look, yournewsletter's right there on your
website.
Oh well, that was easy.
(09:40):
And then, if you're usingPatreon or Supercast or PayPal
or Buy Me a Coffee, it's justwhat we do is we make websites
great looking websites that youdon't have to shoehorn a podcast
into.
Like if you go to Wix orSquarespace, it's like here's a
template for a gym, here's atemplate for a church.
And you're like yeah, I'm apodcast, and so we have all
(10:02):
these templates made forpodcasts and then we just
integrate with everything.
So if you're like, yeah, I'm apodcast and so we have all these
templates made for podcasts andthen we just integrate with
everything, so if you're onBuzzsprout or Captivate or
whoever, we bring your playerover.
If you're using a newsletter,we'll bring that over.
We can import your videos fromYouTube.
It just makes it easy, because,I mean, the thing we love to do
is make content.
(10:23):
We don't want to sit there andgo, oh, every time I log into
WordPress it's like oh, look, Ihave 13 plugins that need
updated and 5,000 messages fromspam, and you know.
And then you update it andyou're praying, you don't get
the.
You know the white screen ofdeath.
I don't know if you've everseen that there's nothing worse.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
Yeah, but I think that you're really talking to my
audience right now because theyhave been sold so many times,
like it'll take 10 minutes andthen they're like well, I was on
tech support all day or I hadto purchase, like I got started
on WordPress but then I realizedlike oh, my host is a totally
separate platform, so I have toget on with my host and then
(10:59):
talk to WordPress.
Like it's just, it's so manykind of Frankenstein pieces of
tech that are put together andthey get really overwhelmed or
they just kind of shut down.
They're like no, I'll just usewhat you know, I have through
Buzzsprout and I, like you know,buzzsprout has built this
beautiful website.
But to your point.
It's like you can't do all theother integrations, Like I can't
(11:22):
connect.
I use kit for my email serviceprovider, so it's like I can't
natively collect those, or Ican't host, you know, my web, my
YouTube, on there.
So I love that you talk aboutall the different features, but
I think for someone that's stillsaying, but Dave, it really
can't be that simple.
I would love for you just tokind of give another example of
(11:44):
if someone has just startedtheir podcast let's say they're
launching in the next month andthey're really excited what
advice would you give to someonewho is just getting started?
Do you tell people well, youshould also launch your podcast
and your website at the sametime.
Or is your advice to do let'sget your podcast going and then
(12:04):
we'll focus on your website?
I'm just curious how easy it isto kind of have these two going
at the same time or separately.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
Yeah, I usually say get a trailer of some sort, and
it could simply be like hey,this is going to be the future
home of the you know, daveJackson Power Hour.
Check it out atDaveJacksonPowerHourcom.
And that's a fake website.
I'm just making this up.
But you could throw that there,because you need one episode
live to go into Apple andSpotify and all these other
places and you could just havethat on your website and then
(12:34):
it's there and then you know,now it's.
I mean, you can make a websitewithout a podcast on pod page,
but it's just so much easierwhen you have a podcast going
already and so you could setthat up and then, you know,
again, have a newsletter.
It's like, hey, be one of thefirst to know when this goes
live, which is what I did withone of my last shows.
And then I had a fair number ofpeople sign up for that and, as
(12:58):
I was getting ready to launch,I'm like, hey, here's the first
episode.
This isn't really live yet, butnow I've got my focus group and
I can email them and go hey,you know, give me feedback on
this, good and bad, either one.
I'm making this show for youand I want it to resonate with
you.
So, if you get a chance, listento this.
And I just threw in a Dropboxand people download.
Oh, that's really good.
What's are you going to do this?
(13:19):
Oh, I hadn't thought of that.
I guess it will now, and so,yeah, it's good to have that.
And then the bonus of that isit just starts you.
It gives Google a chance tostart finding you sooner, and so
it doesn't have to be you knowthis big, you know amazing
website.
It just has to be somethingthere for people to find.
And then the other one is whenyou do launch and it's there,
(13:42):
then you're already set forpeople to start sharing it and
linking back to it and thingslike that.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
Yeah, that's awesome.
That's awesome.
What do you see are like thebiggest mistakes that people do
make, though?
Like whenever they're settingup a website, or they're like,
oh you know, I keep, I keepsending people here, but I just
I don't know, like maybe they'renot great at copywriting or
they focus so much on just likekind of making it pretty, but
(14:07):
it's not really something thatyou know.
It's like I don't get a lot oftraffic.
People always ask me of coursethat's like the number one.
It's like okay, I set thisthing up, but my mom and I are
the only people that go there,so can you kind of speak to that
?
Speaker 2 (14:19):
Yeah, it's well number one.
It's super easy to take GoogleAnalytics, which is free, and
put it in a pod page so you canstart tracking how much traffic
am I getting where it's coming,in true Google fashion.
You kind of get to know whatyour visitor had for lunch two
weeks ago.
I mean, it really gives you aton of information on that.
So that's an easy thing interms of just seeing who's
(14:40):
coming here.
The other one is, I think,again just getting feedback.
I have seen somebody because wehave a Facebook group and I'm
like, hey, put a link to yourpod page.
And sometimes I'm like I'mgoing to put money down that
they're colorblind because browntext on a green background.
I'm like not quite sure that'sgoing to work, that kind of
(15:02):
thing.
But the other one is, and it'slike when I make show notes.
So if I'm using Captivate and Iput in my kind of summary at
the beginning, here's what thisshow is about, here's the links
that I might have talked aboutand I might have.
Captivate has that cool AI tool.
It gives you your takeaways.
I'm like, yeah, let's use those, but it's, you know, a
(15:24):
paragraph and a half.
When it gets to pod page, I cannow go into that and like, oh,
we're in the land of Google nowand I can add a few more
paragraphs, because Google lovesgood words and the key there is
good words, and especially if Ican spell out a story or
something that maybe I put inthere, because, yes, google
loves good words, but right noweverybody and their brother's
(15:45):
like, hey, chat, gpt, give me3,000 words on this, and if you
can lean into the fact thatyou're a person and your
personal experience withsomething, that's going to make
you stand out.
But going back to Zeta, she wasjust featured in US News and
World Report because they weredoing a thing on surviving the
holidays when you're grievingbecause she unfortunately lost
(16:07):
her spouse.
And how did they find her?
Her website, and one of thethings they found was her
transcript, which you can put inthe pod page, and so I always
kind of say they got to find youfirst before they hear you or
see you or whatever it is.
And so it's just, I've alwaysexplained that your website
should be like your, that's,your home base, and then think
(16:27):
of it like the sun, and then youknow your Instagram, your blue
sky, your Twitter, your LinkedIn, your Instagram, all that stuff
.
They're little planets, thatkind of float around that
occasionally come into reallypopularity.
And then there were things likeI don't know Clubhouse right,
remember when that was theeverybody and their brother was
on Clubhouse until they weren't?
And so you don't want to putall your eggs in a basket that
(16:51):
you don't own.
And when you have your domain,even if you're not using PodPage
, you can point that at whatever.
So I've had things that I had adomain and I pointed it at a
product that was basically anaffiliate link for something on
Amazon, but it just made it easyfor people to buy and then that
product just ceased to happen.
I'm like, well, what ifsomebody is looking for this?
(17:11):
And I just pointed at somethingelse.
So when you have your website,when you have your domain,
you're really in control ofwhat's going on.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
Yeah, I mean between us, I don't even know how many
podcast events that we've beento.
But the number one question, orthe number one pain point, is
discoverability.
And you did, you just hit onlike that can solve so many.
We're not saying you're goingto get millions of website views
tomorrow, but at the same timeyou are opening up the
(17:40):
opportunity to pop up in Google,pop up in these other searches
that otherwise you may not getthat data scraped on just a
podcast platform.
So it absolutely can help withdiscoverability.
But, to your point.
I think it just makes it somuch easier to say your domain,
that's it.
You don't have to remember allthese weird numbers and letters
to like whatever your host isusing, or if it's Apple or
(18:03):
Spotify, like whatever.
And you know, I don't knowabout you, but I've rebranded my
podcast a few times actuallyand my Apple ID is still my very
original show.
So if you're sharing that, likeover time, like it still says
the rookie life, I'm like Ihaven't been the rookie life
since 2019.
So that's not helpful to shareanywhere.
(18:26):
So yeah, I'm.
I mean, all day long, I'm goingto continue to preach that
podcast websites are reallywhere we need to go.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
But yeah, go ahead.
You'd asked about mistakes.
One thing I do see people do is, whoever your media host is,
sometimes they'll I call it ajukebox.
It's like it's a player withmultiple episodes and so what
they'll do they're like, oh,look at this, I can just put
this on this page and then itupdates.
Every time I put out a newepisode.
(18:54):
The player shows a new thingand I'm done, and it is set it
and forget it.
It has absolutely I mean almostnegative.
It's so zero SEO.
That's not getting you any helpBecause really at that point
it's like somebody cut a littlesquare in your website and stuck
a player in it, but that playeris actually on your media host,
so all the text that's in thatplayer and everything else is
just there's zero SEO.
(19:15):
So I always say treat everyepisode kind of like a blog.
You know your show notes areyour blog post and then you just
throw a player in it and presto, you know, and then make sure
to have your follow buttonsthere for Apple and Spotify and
whoever else.
But yeah, when I see peoplelike, oh yeah, it's on my
website and I go there and it'sjust that that little jukebox,
(19:35):
I'm like, oh, okay, that's.
That's better than nothing, butyou're missing out on a lot of
SEO juice yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
Yeah, yeah, and I'm so curious, and this is one of
the.
This is one of those questionsthat I don't even know myself,
but I've been getting asked alot.
It's like okay, with AI, andlike the way that the world is
changing, consumers are changingtoo.
It's like where, where is SEOgoing?
And I've seen so much of like,oh, seo is going to die, or SEO
is going to be this, or SEO isgoing to be that, and I'm just a
(20:04):
firm believer that, like I'mjust going to keep showing up
and do what's working while it'sworking.
But I'm curious what's yourtake on that?
Speaker 2 (20:11):
Yeah it's, I hear that a lot.
I don't know that Google'sgoing anywhere anytime soon.
I do know that every now andthen I'll go there and there's
some sort of AI, you know resultand that's kind of like hmm,
and what I've always done overthe years is I write for people.
You know I'll get these toolsand you end up saying you know,
if you're doing a show about, Idon't know, snowboarding, and
(20:36):
it's like every seventh word islike when you're snowboarding,
you want to make sure thatsnowboarding is fun for you,
because snowboarding and you'rejust like, okay, like that's not
, I'm not writing for people,I'm writing for something that
says you need to saysnowboarding 87 times a
paragraph and I'm like no, I'mnot doing that.
So I've always written forpeople, I've recorded for people
, I'm trying to reach myaudience.
(20:57):
And it's funny because on aevery now and then I'll have
somebody come in and they'relike hey, I want to do an SEO,
you know, audit for you and Ican make you rank.
And they'll come in and likewhy are you ranked really good?
And I'm like what are you using?
And I go, I write for people.
I go, I write for people,that's all I do?
I mean, I occasionally willlike when it's like there's
plugins and WordPress, there'sall sorts of stuff where it'll
(21:20):
kind of give you a score andthat's in pod page as well.
And there are times I'm like,oh wait, if I use this keyword
instead of that, you know I'llget a better score, and I'm like
, all right, well, we'll do that, but I really don't spend a
huge amount of time on it and Iseem to rank pretty well.
So it's one of those thingswhere but it does make you
worried.
But again, 70% this is perJacobs Media 70% of podcasts are
(21:44):
discovered via word of mouthand so you want them to go.
Oh yeah, it's called the youknow Crystal Prophet Show, power
Hour, you know zany time,whatever, you know, et cetera,
et cetera.
Oh, just, it's an Apple podcast, just go find it.
I'm like, no, you don't want tosay go find it.
Definitely don't say go find itin Spotify.
(22:06):
But if they send you to awebsite, there it is, and now
you're in control.
And then the other thing abouthaving a website is the fact
that you're now one click awayTo me.
A website and email list gohand in hand, because you know,
at the end one of the things Ihear a lot of podcasters do that
I go.
That's not working becausethey're like, hey, follow me on
Twitter X or Blue Sky or this,and that Don't forget to get my
(22:26):
lead magnet.
And, while you're there, leavea five-star review and you're
like it's 17 calls to action.
And really I'm starting toswitch to.
My call to action is here's mylead net magnet join my email
list, because once you're on theemail list, I can ask you all
those other things you know andI'm in your one click away
(22:54):
you're not on the treadmill, youknow.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
So that's another advantage of both that website
and the email address.
Well, I mean, I feel like wecould go.
I mean, just from that littlesnippet there, we could go in
like 17 different directions,because I told Dave before we
started I was like I lovetalking to other podcast nerds
because these are the thingsthat I think about all the time
and the things that I tellpeople and I'm in conversation
with podcasters.
But I know you said that youjust recently got back from
(23:15):
PodFest.
I wasn't able to go this year,but tell us, was there anything
that was fun or exciting orsomething that you know is
noteworthy to take away?
If you know no one's ever beento that event, or if just, what
was podcast or pod fest 2025like for you?
Speaker 2 (23:31):
well for me because I've gone to every one.
It's like summer camp.
So when I go back there, uhit's, you know, I'm seeing all
sorts of new people as as wellas catching up with old people
that I've I've known forever.
Um, the thing I love about podfest or podcast movement or any
of these, you don't have toexplain to anybody what a
podcast is yes, and you andyou're instantly like oh what,
(23:52):
and it's one of the bestcommunities.
Because I've had people like, ohwell, what I did was, you know,
I advertised in Overcast for amonth and got you know 27 more
subscribers or whatever, andeverybody's sharing their
secrets.
And it's not like well, if Ishare my secrets, well then
you'll use them too.
It's like no, it's like we'renot really competition, and so
(24:13):
that part was great.
I'm trying to think of the.
I got involved with the Hall ofFame.
I got to induct two people,which was fun.
And if you want a fun exercise,take somebody that you've known
for 19 years and summarize themin two minutes, because us
podcasters, getting to the point, not always our strong suit, so
(24:40):
that was kind of fun.
And I think, if there'sanything big takeaways,
buzzsprout had the best swag.
They had a key chain that waslaser engraved as you waited.
That was pretty cool.
That was like well, that beatsa t-shirt.
So that was laser engraved asyou waited.
That was pretty cool.
That was like well, that beatsa t-shirt.
So that was kind of fun.
But the biggest thing I try totell people when I'm there is
you can kind of see the newpeople and by like day three
(25:00):
they're kind of walking dead,zombie-ish, because there's just
so much information and they'rejust overwhelmed.
And I was talking to this onewoman.
She'd come up to the Podpagebooth and I said how's it going?
She's like I don't know.
I'm like this is.
It just seems like so much.
And I said, well, I just needto let you know.
You're a hundred percent normal.
Right now.
(25:20):
I go, you're sitting therethinking everybody else gets
this and I don't, and I don'teven know where to start.
I go, that's 100% normal.
I said, just figure out, likemake a list of all this stuff
that you just heard, figure outwhere you want to start and just
you know how do you eat anelephant, one bite at a time.
I'm like just do that one at atime and go from there.
(25:41):
But no, it was a good time.
Anytime you can.
You know, see the.
If you can tell me the eyecolor of your listener, you're
in the right spot.
And so for me, you know that ismy target audience.
So it was a good time.
And I kind of sound like rightnow I'm battling a cold.
But after PodFest I soundedlike this, because the last
night they always have this bigblowout DJ party, and so you're
(26:04):
going to people going tell meabout your podcast, and so you
wake up on Sunday.
I woke up on Sunday.
It sounded like James EarlJones.
I was like Luke, I am yourfather, you know.
It was like geez, where'd myvoice go?
It's crazy.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
Oh my gosh.
Well, it's so funny too becauseit's so different, because I've
been to so many differentcreator events and, man, there's
nothing like a pod fest or apodcast movement, because you go
and you just realize I've beentalking for eight hours straight
or people have been talking atme.
My husband went with me oneyear it was the 2023 in Vegas
(26:38):
and it was evolutions for apodcast movement and we went and
he was like, yeah, this will befun, you know I'll go with you,
and it was, you know, ourspring break and we enjoyed it.
But he was like, oh my gosh,there's just people talking
everywhere and I was like, babe,what did you think?
We literally love to talk, andso that's what I love about
(27:00):
going and experiencing this.
So, for anyone, this is a PSAfor anyone that's listening.
If you haven't been to a podcastevent and you're looking to
really be in community with morepeople, then I highly recommend
it.
Are you planning on going toany other big events that our
listeners may see you at thisyear?
Speaker 2 (27:17):
Yeah, I'm going to both Podcast Movement and
Podcast Movement Evolutions andI'm kind of looking for other
ones.
I know Social Media MarketingWorld is out there.
That's not.
I mean that has a podcastingkind of you know promotion vibe.
So I've been to that one.
That's amazing where you go tothese after parties on an
aircraft carrier, you're likewait what you know.
So, but some of the ones I usedto go to, like there was one in
(27:41):
Philadelphia called Joe Pardo'sevent it was podcast
Mid-Atlantic back in the day andI don't think Joe's doing that
anymore.
And then there was one inWashington that was PodFest,
something, something, and it'sgone.
So if you're thinking ofstarting an event, there's room.
So it's a lot of fun.
And then you always end up with.
(28:02):
I always say if you getbusiness cards or if you're
scanning QR codes, follow upwith those people, cause I know
there's a few that I want tohave on my show.
So that's going to be a fun too.
It's great networking.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
Absolutely.
I've actually had severalpeople that I've met at other
conferences here.
You know they get to talkingand you're like, oh, like we're
kind of in the same niche orwe're kind of doing the same,
we're helping the same kind ofperson, like let's do some promo
swaps, or you know, like let'slet's collaborate in some fun
way.
I think that that's what's,that's what's really cool about
it, and I think that it justexponentially expands your
(28:35):
network whenever you can findthose key people.
And it's not going to be everyperson that you meet, but that's
okay.
Like you're just you're, you'rehere to get help along the way.
Like lean into those resources.
I'm curious, like for you know,I'm just totally putting you on
the spot and asked you toprepare this but who's like the
biggest?
Like, oh my gosh, I can'tbelieve I met that person in the
(28:58):
podcast space.
It could be a celebrity in anyother kind of realm, but
podcasting is really thecatalyst that led you to meeting
someone important in your life.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
Boy, that is a good one.
Probably last year, because Iagain I got to induct somebody
into the Hall of Fame and DrDrew was the emcee.
And so I'm just backstagehanging with Dr Drew and you're
like, okay, that's Dr Drew.
I'm trying to think of otherpeople.
(29:29):
I remember once I was at Ithink it was Podcast Movement,
and there's a bunch ofpodcasters in Tennessee.
It's Michael Hyatt.
If you've never read his bookPlatform, that's a good one.
Ray Edwards who's this mastercopywriter?
And both those guys were inthis room because Michael was
going to speak.
And I sat down and I look overand there's Ray Edwards and I'm
(29:52):
like, oh my goodness, it's RayEdwards.
He's sitting right there, likeyou know, and so I talked to him
and Ray's just the nicest,kindest soul you've ever met.
He's like, oh, dave, I've heardof your show and I'm like Ray
Edwards heard of my show.
And then there was somethingwhere they went to Q&A and so I
(30:16):
asked Michael Hyatt because hewas presenting a question.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
He's like oh hey, dave, I listened to your show
and I was like, no, I didn'tcall him.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
He listened to my show.
Yeah, that's it.
And I still I was.
Who was I just listening to?
Blueberry has a show, so it wasTodd Cochran and Dave from his
team and they were talking aboutPodFest and he's like.
I got to meet Dave Jackson,which to me I was like, well,
big deal.
But the fact that they said myname on a show, I was like, oh,
they said my name.
So, yeah, we all get giddy whensomebody gets recognized or
(30:42):
they say our name and thingslike that.
So it's been fun, yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
And I was going to say I think it just goes back to
.
It's something that we say onthe show all the time too is
like how can you create thatexperience for your audience and
your listeners?
Like you know whether it'shaving like a shout out,
especially, you know, if youhave an email service provider
connected to your pod page,because everyone's going to go
check out pod page.
Like I already told Dave, I waslike I've got my affiliate link
(31:07):
set up.
We are absolutely promoting podpage because if you wanted to
start a website in 2025, that'sone of your big goals Go use
PodPage, because it really is sosimple.
And I want you to figure out away to also connect your email
service provider so that you canhave a feedback loop to get
feedback on your podcast,because so many people tell me,
(31:30):
like I see that people arelistening, but I don't, I don't
know.
Like to your point earlier, Iwas like is it good?
Can you go listen to this?
Can I get feedback somehow?
So I want everyone to do that,that way that you can have this
rapport with your audience,where it's not just oh, I can
see there's 17 people listeningin Texas or 25 listening, you
(31:51):
know, in in the UK.
Like no, you're like, oh,that's probably Dave, like he's,
he's over there listening, youknow, and I know that that's him
, because I think that it iscool to give those shout outs on
your show and have thatpersonal connection because,
just like Dave and I, like I getso giddy.
I remember it was 2021 podcastmovement and I stood up and
asked Mark Cuban a questionthere you go.
(32:14):
That is still like solidified aslike a huge highlight.
I went home and told the kidsof course they're like you mean
from Shark Tank.
They don't know him from theMavs or anything else they're
like from Shark Tank.
I was like, yes, mark Cuban, soit's like these little things
that you can do to create magicin your own podcasting journey,
and I think that Dave is such agreat example.
(32:35):
I'm curious how many podcastepisodes if you had to guess
have you published in yourcareer?
Speaker 2 (32:41):
Over 3,000.
Easy, oh, wow.
I mean, the School ofPodcasting has 960 something.
Ask the podcast coach, yourpodcast consultant.
I've started over 30 shows Nowsome of them coach your podcast
consultant.
I've started over 30 shows Now.
Some of them lasted like.
I remember one it was thecustomer service show and I
think I made it to six episodestill it dawned on me, oh, that's
(33:02):
my job, not my passion, and sothat was the end of that.
I started the Dates from Hellshow on a dare.
I was married at the time andmyself and my ex-wife were
swapping horror stories on datesand somebody said this should
be a podcast.
And we did it, and then weasked the audience to share
their stories and then it dawnedon me that A what's the number
(33:23):
one fear among people?
Oh, that's right, speaking inpublic.
And what do I want you to do?
Throw yourself under the bus.
So it's hard to do a kind ofcrowd show, a feedback show,
when you don't have a crowd yet.
And so we had just started.
We both had maybe four stories,so we made about eight episodes
and ran out of stuff.
But you're talking about, youknow, getting your audience
(33:44):
involved.
Podpage has a built-in voicemailtool and again, it's all about
your brand.
So yourwebsite com slashvoicemail.
And recently Tom Webster,speaking of the Hall of Fame,
was just inducted last week, hasa great book called the
Audience is Listening and in itare a bunch of really great
questions to ask your audienceto really find out.
(34:04):
You know, what do you think ofmy show?
And so PodPage approached himand said hey, tom, you have all
these questions like can we usethose and make them a survey in
pod page.
And he's like can you put alink to my book at the top of
that on the dashboard?
I'm like, yes, we can.
And so if you're looking for away to find out, does my
audience even like this stuff?
You've got to build in survey.
(34:25):
And again, we make it.
It's just your websitecom slashsurvey and then you can
actually add I think there's 19questions and I don't know that
I would use them all, but youcan pick the ones you want.
And then there's five at thebottom you can customize
completely to you.
And so many times I kind ofdon't get that because I, if
somebody comes to me, they'relike, yeah, my podcast isn't
(34:45):
growing the way I want.
And I'm like, okay, well, whatdid you see when you did a
survey?
And they're like I haven't donea survey yet.
I'm like, well, you know, theeasiest way to find out if your
audience likes it is to ask themand I realized that spooky, you
know that's when people findout.
You can go into podcasts,connectapplecom and see how far
people listen and they're like,oh amazing.
And I'm like, well, it can alsobe soul crushing.
(35:07):
Just so you know.
When you go in and you see likewow, they bailed after 42%,
like well, you know that's theway it is.
So yeah, but feedback's awesomeand important and it's fun.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
Yeah, I think data is your friend right.
Like everyone, people are soscared.
But at the end of the day, theway that I look at it, it's like
data.
It's just the truth.
That's right.
It's facts.
It's not the emotion of beingscared to create or the emotion
of interviewing someone like itis just facts and then you can
decide what you want to do withit.
But if you haven't gone intothe different tools and really
(35:40):
analyze things, then you may notknow.
You're just kind of shooting,you know darts in the with a
blindfold on and you're notreally sure what's going to
happen, and so I totally agreelike have these tools set up.
And you just actually made methink I was like oh, I need to
do a YouTube, like on pod page,like a deep dive on like how to
do all this because surveys aremy jam.
(36:01):
Like I love to talk aboutsurveys and I think that they
are so helpful, but I love thatyou said like it's just a
built-in feature that people canutilize, because that just it
removes the technical piecesthat you have to think about.
All you have to do is like, hey, like you can even start with
these questions, like here theseare the ones that typically
perform well in a survey andthey'll give you helpful
(36:24):
information that can really takethat audience feedback and you
can just do so much with it.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
But I've seen people that they sent out this survey
and this guy does a daily showand it was really starting to
burn him to a crisp because it'sa lot of content and a lot of
and one of the feedback he gotfrom a survey was like, yeah, we
don't really need a daily show,can we make this like maybe two
times a week?
And here he was all worriedthat if he, you know, backed
(36:50):
down like and it's like no, theysaid it was more than one
person was like we love the showbut, like you know, I haven't
really finished with the firstepisode and I got three more in
the, you know, waiting for me tolisten to.
So he was like, oh, all right,that's good to know, because you
know he was really burninghimself out.
Speaker 1 (37:07):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, I want to go back to youwere talking about starting and
stopping multiple podcasts.
Speaker 2 (37:15):
And.
Speaker 1 (37:15):
I want to ask you a question that would be helpful
for someone, let's say, isprobably in the first three to
six months of their podcast.
They've gotten up, they've hitthat critical number of like OK,
I'm past 10 episodes, I'm stillpublishing, I'm still
publishing.
But what I see so often in myaudience is they hit this number
(37:39):
around 15 to 20 and they'relike oh, I think I picked the
wrong audience or I think Ipicked the wrong topic or I
think I picked the wrong title.
Like they start having this likekind of buyer's remorse of like
oh, I don't know that I'm doingthis correctly, or maybe they
have gotten feedback.
And I'm just curious, you know,with all the podcasters you've
worked with, or maybe even inyour own experience, like what
(38:00):
do you do when you get to thatpoint You're kind of wrestling
with do I continue on thisjourney and things will get
better, or do I just go aheadand reanalyze things and see
what the next steps are?
Speaker 2 (38:12):
Yeah, that's a great question.
The cause to me I always say mylittle bumper sticker is your
podcast is a recipe, it's not astatue.
And so you may have thought,well, I'm going to do this and
this and this, and all of asudden you do it for six months.
You're like, wow, I'mattracting a bunch of people
that I had not intended toattract.
And that's when you go okay,are these people going to get
(38:34):
you to whatever your why is?
And I always say you need toknow your why and your who.
And the hard part is it's whatcan I talk about to this who
people?
So, because you can't say men25 to 50, because there's a big
difference between a 25-year-oldand a 50-year-old.
So, when you got your niche andyou got your why, when you
overlap that, what can I talkabout?
That's either going to educateor entertain the who, but slowly
(38:57):
move them towards my why.
Because if you don't get yourwhy, you burn out.
If you don't educate andentertain, then you never grow
your audience.
So that's the hard part, andwrong is relative there.
Maybe you know air quotes here.
Then you have to figure outokay, but can these people get
(39:21):
me to my why?
And it's either like okay,these people want to talk about
topic B, I'm talking about topicA, but they want to talk about
topic B.
Okay, do I want to talk?
Do I have the same passion fortopic B?
And if the answer is no, Idon't really want to talk about
what they want to talk about.
Well, you've attracted kind ofthe wrong audience and it's
going to be hard to do, but youneed to tweak your message
because you're just attractingthe wrong people and that means
(39:42):
the people that are here areprobably going to leave, and
that's so hard to go ugh, youknow.
Or if these people, oh, yeah,this will work.
I know I had a friend of mineand he was doing a show,
something about fitness, and itwas supposed to be fitness for
men, and he goes, everybody'slistening is female.
And I'm like, okay, like, doesthat matter?
(40:03):
And he's like, well, no,because in the end I can help
females too.
And I'm like, well, there yougo.
But sometimes, if you'relooking for a specific audience
but yeah, my first podcast was,I rebranded three times because
it just it started off it wasthe musician's cyber cooler,
because back then, back in theday, you know, it was cyberspace
.
And then cyberspace was reallysynonymous I can't even say that
(40:27):
word to cyber sex and I'm like,oh well, we got to lose the
cyber word.
So then it was the musician'scooler Big picture of a water
cooler tagline, where musicianscome to trade advice and people
are like, so like a wine cooler?
And I'm like, no.
And then I rebranded it againthe marketing musician, where
musicians come to trade it andthey find, oh, okay, I get it
now.
So that's why I always say yourpodcast is not a statue, you
(40:51):
can rebrand it, it's your show.
That's one of the beautifulthings about it.
And so sometimes we do thingsand it doesn't work out the
right way.
And that's where some peopleare like oh, it didn't work, I
failed.
No, no, that's called a lessonand you learn that doing this
results in this.
So let's try a differentstimulus and see who it attracts
(41:12):
and go from there.
Speaker 1 (41:14):
Yeah, and I think we have that same approach.
That's the first time I'veheard that it's not a statue,
it's a recipe.
That's fantastic.
The thing that we say aroundhere is there are no rules in
podcasting.
There's guidelines, but there'sno rules.
You get to make and break therules at any point of your show
(41:35):
and I think that people get sogrounded in, like a YouTube
video that they watched or apodcast episode that they heard
one time, like five years ago,and they're locked into.
This is the only way that I cando it.
So I love the recipe metaphorbecause it is.
It's like you want to switch upsome ingredients.
Maybe you want something alittle bit spicier, or maybe
you're like, ooh, I'm ready forthe mild stuff.
Like it's been a littlehardcore around here.
I want to do something a littlebit easier.
(41:56):
So I love that.
This has been so incredible,dave, and, like I said, this has
been just, I think, greatinsights to a podcasting journey
and what it can look like, butalso how.
Again, I'm just going to keepsaying it is like everyone needs
a podcast website in 2025.
Like y'all have, dave hasstripped all the excuses of why
(42:17):
you can't start, so we're goingto have links to check out
PodPage and you know it's likeI've already said, like it's I
have an affiliate link with it.
It's I shout out PodPage in mycourse Profit Podcasting because
I want you to have resourcesthat make it really simple,
really easy for you to getstarted.
But, dave, I have a few rapidfire questions.
Speaker 2 (42:39):
I will do my best.
Speaker 1 (42:43):
It's okay if you get a long winded, because I think
that you're going to have somegreat answers for these.
Speaker 2 (42:48):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (42:49):
So the first one is what piece of advice would you
give to a brand new podcaster orcontent creator?
Speaker 2 (42:55):
Don't worry about making money.
You don't monetize a podcast,you monetize an audience.
So focus on growing youraudience.
I would spend my.
My bumper sticker is spend ahundred dollars on a microphone
and then spend a hundred hoursfiguring out who your audience
is and what they want.
Speaker 1 (43:10):
Oh my gosh Like okay, that's the quotable for this
episode.
Speaker 2 (43:13):
That was fantastic.
Speaker 1 (43:15):
That's really good.
I feel like you've said that afew times.
Speaker 2 (43:17):
I have.
That's what I said.
It's my bumper sticker.
Speaker 1 (43:19):
I love it Okay, my next question is a two-part
question.
Speaker 2 (43:22):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (43:23):
What is the dream podcast you would love to be on
and who is the dream podcastguest you would love to
interview?
Speaker 2 (43:31):
Oh man, that's a good one.
Joe Rogan wouldn't suck right,uh, to be on his show, be in
front of a couple million peopleat the same time.
Um, co-host, hmm, that's atough one.
I was going to say I got tointerview Adam Curry on stage
once.
That was fun, uh, cause that'sthe guy that invented podcasting
(43:52):
, and back in the day he was onMTV.
I would love and this is onlybecause I'm Dave and I play the
guitar I would love to interviewTed Nugent because A he's very
polarizing.
So you either love the guy oryou hate him, and I would just.
I got to meet his wife once.
That was as close as I got.
But that would be something Iwould love to interview, just
(44:13):
because I know enough about himfrom growing up to where.
It'd be fun to just in someways get his actual, honest
answer.
But other ways there's an easyway to poke that guy's buttons
and just have him go off.
Speaker 1 (44:24):
So I think that'd be fun and just see what happens.
It'd be fun just to watch, yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:35):
Okay, those are great , those are great.
And then my last question is doyou consider yourself a
perfectionist Boy?
That's a yes and no.
I aim for perfection, but theproblem is I should batch record
, but I do not.
So it is Wednesdays we recordthis.
I have an idea of what I'mtalking about, but my show goes
out Sunday night, it's basicallyMonday.
It's Sunday at midnight, whichis Monday, and so there just
(44:58):
comes a time when I've done allthe work I have all week and
it's like all right, this is asgood as it's going to get, and
most of the time I'm prettyhappy with it.
But there are times when I'mlike, oh, you know, I should
have you know that kind of thing.
But it's funny, there are thoseshows that you think are just
absolutely perfect, right, andyou're like, oh, cannot wait for
people the feedback I will wakeup to tomorrow morning.
(45:21):
And you wake up, it is justnothing but crickets.
And then I put one out.
I kind of hurried one togetherbecause I was in PodFest and I
had to have kind of two episodesready, one for the normal week
and one while I was travelingand I thought I kind of was like
oh, I always preach, I'd ratherhave a late show.
That was good than an on-timeshow.
That was meh.
(45:41):
And I was like this episode'skind of it's good enough, all
right, you know.
And I got home and I'm likethat was a really great episode.
I was like really Because in myhead I was like really Because
in my head I was like it's okayand so yeah, that's.
Speaker 1 (46:00):
I forget what the question is.
Now, that's funny.
No, it's great.
It was all about being aperfectionist?
Speaker 2 (46:02):
Yeah, so yes, I try to be.
Yeah, I aim it perfect.
And when you miss, you land onreally, really good.
Speaker 1 (46:07):
Yeah, I mean.
I think that that was just sucha fantastically honest answer,
because I think that so manypeople get stuck in that they
want to have something perfect.
They want to have somethingperfect and they're the ones
that listen or educatethemselves on podcasting for a
year.
I mean, it's a person thatyou've met multiple times at
PodFest and they still like theyhaven't ripped off that bandaid
(46:30):
and just put their show out.
So we would love to see y'allcreate imperfect shows and just
be consistent with it, becausethat's how you have that
longevity over time and you canbuild that audience.
But you got to show up and yougot to just get it going.
So thank you so much, dave.
This has been incredible today,and where can everybody find
(46:50):
you and learn more about all thefun things that you're doing?
Speaker 2 (46:53):
Yeah, my main website is schoolofpodcastingcom.
We mentioned that we havemultiple shows, so I have a
website just for that and that'sat powerofpodcastingcom.
Speaker 1 (47:02):
Okay, perfect, we're gonna link to those in the show
notes and, like I said, we'regonna talk all about PodPage
some more.
This is super fun to have youand, yeah, thanks for being on.
Speaker 2 (47:13):
Crystal, always great hanging out with you.
Speaker 1 (47:19):
I told you I guess I should say I warned you from the
beginning that we woulddefinitely be talking about
PodPage in today's episode andwe didn't disappoint, right?
We shared so many twists andturns of Dave and I's story and
it was just so much fun to catchup with him and chat with him
again, because it's one of thesethings that I love about what I
do as a coach and someonethat's in this space, because
(47:41):
someone would, on the surface orat face value, say, well,
aren't you and Dave kind ofcompetitors, aren't y'all doing
the same thing?
And kind of you know like,isn't that a little weird?
Absolutely not.
And it's what I love about thisindustry and the things that we
do, because collaboration isincredible and I actually saw
(48:04):
this post that Amy Porterfielddid recently where she was
talking about how thecollaborations in her journey
have really amplified hermessage and the people she's
trying to help and the thingsthat she's trying to achieve.
So I am leaning full into thisand I can't wait to collaborate
with other people in thepodcasting space.
(48:25):
But Dave was a big get and I amso excited that he came on and
shared so much wisdom about hisjourney and I hope that it
inspired you, that if you'rejust getting started and you're
wondering, you know, is thispodcasting thing going to pan
out for me?
I hope that you found value intoday's conversation because
(48:46):
it's worked out pretty well forboth Dave and I and we're really
excited to keep going andhelping you on this journey.
So make sure you check outSchool of Podcasting.
Go check out Dave's content.
If you loved his personality,please go check him out and all
the fun things that he's doing.
Again, I am a proud affiliate ofPodPage and I encourage you to
go check it out.
You can go to crystalprofitcomforward slash PodPage to check
(49:10):
out what they have to offer.
I know that there's many peoplein our Podcasters Connect
community that use Podpage andthey're really excited about it.
They're like I can do someintegrations on the back end and
make it just the way that Iwant it to be, and it's not a
heavy lift for me.
It's not this super big, clunkywebsite that I have to figure
out or figure out web design toget it to work.
(49:30):
They can get up and runningreally fast.
So I hope that I have to figureout or figure out web design to
get it to work.
They can get up and runningreally fast.
So I hope that you go check itout Again.
That's crystalprofitcom forwardslash pod page to check it out.
But thank you so much forlistening to today's episode.
If this is your first timetuning in, make sure you hit
that subscribe or follow buttonwherever you are listening.
(49:52):
Go check out Dave, see what heis up to and, as always,
remember, keep it up.
We all have to start somewhere.
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