April 19, 2022 • 48 mins
Wonder what it's like to go from student to teacher? Why is inclusive education and diversity in the classroom so important? What exactly is a glow moment?
Get the answers to these questions and more as we take you on a roller coaster of a conversation with a current 3+1 Inclusive Education major Bert Jordan, RCBC Education Program Chair and full-time faculty member Professor Corvena Francis-Denton, and Willingboro Superintendent of Schools Dr. Neely Hackett.
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Unknown (00:00):
Welcome to the program pod a production from the rcbc
podcast network that offers afirsthand perspective from an
rcbc student, faculty member andemployer. Hello, and welcome to
the program pod A production ofthe rcbc Podcast Network where
we take an rcbc program and do adeep dive from three different
perspectives faculty, studentand employer. Thanks for joining
(00:22):
the conversation with me, yourhost Jay Varga and for today's
episode, we're talkingeducation. And with me today, we
have Bert Jordan a three plusone rcbc, inclusive education
major and student teacher forMount Holly, Professor Kobina,
France has done a full timefaculty member and education
program chair here at rcbc. AndDr. Neely Hacket, superintendent
of schools for willingboro.Everybody. Thanks for joining
(00:44):
the show.
Thank you for having us. All
right, it's good to haveeverybody in person here. Have a
good time. In the know, yeah,I'm gonna share with everybody
else. But as always, rcbcembraces a student first
philosophy. So let's get rightto Bert, as an rcbc student, you
know, started shaping his pathtowards a career with Inclusive
Education, Bert, again, thanksfor joining the show. And you're
in the final year of the threeplus one inclusive education
(01:07):
program. Correct?
That is correct. And I'm happyto be here.
I'm happy to have you here. Sohow's the program been treating
so far?
I love the program. Since ayoung age, I always knew I
wanted to be an educator. Ireally liked the program, how it
really focused on that inclusionsetting in the classroom,
basically making sure that youmeet the needs of all the
learners in your classroom, andall the students that you will
(01:27):
interact with on a daily basis.And overall, I would say as I
reached the finish line, I feellike I'm prepared for the
program and ready to go outthere and make an impact with
our students.
How close are you to the finishline,
I am very close, I have aboutthree more weeks until
graduation,
you're already ready for you.
I am I am ready, a littlenervous to be a first year
teacher to be honest. But it'sall part of the it's normal.
(01:49):
It's part of the norm for a newteacher and a new educator. But
I'm excited to see the impactthat I can make, you're gonna
do a fine a fantastic job towhat we're having here on the
show to share your story. Andyou know, see where you kind of
grow with that. But what was ityou know, about rcbc that
brought you here in the firstplace, and especially
specifically to you know, tostudy inclusive education.
At first, it was to be honest,was the three plus one program,
(02:12):
it was the opportunity to save alot of money and still get the
certifications that I wanted tobe able to choose one of my
lifelong goals. I do have a twinsister, so my parents were very
focused on going the cheaperroute for college. Because
there's two of us. Sure. Sothat's what really brought me
here. At first I said I was justgoing to do a two year program
(02:32):
and then transfer. But afterbeing in the program, I fell in
love with the collaboration withmy professors and my fellow
classmates that I decided tostay. And also COVID It made no
sense to leave. But nowreflecting on my four years, I
don't regret staying at all. AndI'm walking out with a lot of
memories, a lot of knowledge,and very grateful for the
opportunity
is one of those professors inthis classroom or in this room
(02:54):
right here. Yes. We'll getthere. We'll get there shortly.
So what are you currently doingas a student teacher? Again,
you're at Mount Holly, right?
Correct. I mean, now Holly, um,I'm at the schools that ranges
from second through fourth, I'min third grade inclusion. And my
classroom we have 21 students.Eight of them do have an IEP.
(03:15):
And in that classroom on a dailyI am serving as the lead teacher
and our subjects. I'm alsoplanning on working
collaborating with the otherthird grade teachers and my two
cooperating teachers, a gen edteacher, and a special education
teacher. Outside of theclassroom, I'm also still
enrolled in college courses,where I am preparing assignments
(03:36):
for my instructors completingwork, and also talking to other
people, my program to make surethat we're all on the right
road, making sure that we'regetting our assignments done
empowering ideas,
where are you finding runningany downtime?
It gets fairly hard, but it'simportant as an educator, I do
make sure that I find thatopportunity because I firmly
believe that if I don't takecare of myself, I'm not going to
(03:57):
be the best educator everysingle day. So one thing that I
like to do is I do like to rideroller coasters. So now that is
starting to get warmer everySaturday you can find me
somewhere on a roller coasterwith my hands up what's your
favorite roller coaster? So myfavorite roller coaster actually
up to my favorite is velocitycoaster at Universal. So over
winter break I did spend sometime in Orlando and my close to
(04:20):
home my second roller coaster isEl Toro and Six Flags New Jersey
after going
Professor friends a friendDustin why you shaking your
head? No. Because again, this isan audio podcast so
I can't even do the one thatgoes around in a circle with the
little kid.
Yeah, actually funny. No KingdaKa right. Have you ever been one
of my favorites so incredible.And not to get too sidetracked.
(04:44):
But I was back in a couple yearsago. My wife was carrying around
like a recall the little purseor whatever. Fanny pack. Thank
you. Thank you, Fanny pack. AndI was making fun of her all like
all throughout the Six FlagsMike look ridiculous wearing
that this isn't the 90s andstuff. So she's keeping all her
belongings in that me just keepmy wallet and my shorts. And
(05:04):
then sure enough getting in thecar, we go flying all the way
up, going down. And all of asudden, as we're coming down and
going, Oh, you come down thatlittle what you do is or
whatever to slow down, becauseyou're coming so fast, all of a
sudden stuff just flying aroundon my face. And I'm like, what
was that I looked down, therewas my driver's license, there's
my credit card, I go to feellike my shorts, my wallet blew
out of the pocket. My wife looksat me, she's like, Who wants a
(05:28):
fanny pack? Now.
I love your story, J Now you'reactually not even allowed on
rollercoasters with like fannypacks and stuff. But I'm
actually happy that we went onthis sidetrack of talking about
roller coasters. Because since Ilove it so much, and it's a big
passion of mine, it does come upa lot in the classroom. And I
treat it as a learningexperience for my students. And
(05:49):
I basically teach them that inlife, you're gonna have some ups
and downs. But while you'rehaving those ups and downs,
enjoy the ride. And also, I alsobranch off of that and tell them
don't be afraid to take thoserisks. So just like you took
that risk with that fanny pack,I'm teaching my students every
single day to take those risks,whether they're big or small,
you're gonna be
a heck of a teacher. I can tellyou that. So, you know, and get
(06:12):
to everybody else. Just asecond. But are you? Are you
applying the stuff that youlearned from rcbc? Like, you
know, what Professor France hasdone has taught in your class?
Are you seeing yourself actuallydoing that to your students?
Now?
I do. And I actually find myselfdoing it very naturally without
even noticing. I'll give you oneexample. So one example is,
wherever I walk into a classroomor a group of people, I always
(06:33):
start off with checking it. Andit's very informal most of the
time, but I also want to knowwhat's new, what's your well,
moments? What have you learnedwhat's going on. And it's just a
way that I get to check in. AndI basically call it it's me
reading the room, I'm getting toknow the people that I'm about
to talk to, I'm knowing wherethey're coming from, what type
of data they're having. And I'mreally getting to connect with
my students that way. So why doyou think that's important? I
(06:55):
think it's important because ittells me and helps me foreshadow
that day. So for example, if Iknow that I have a student that
didn't eat breakfast, I knowthat I need to get that student
a snack so that they canfunction for the best. If I have
a student that really wants totell me about their weekend, I
rather get that over with beforeI start instruction, because I
know is not going to hold themback. I also have a field trip
coming up. And I have a lot ofstudents that still didn't
(07:17):
understand the sense of time. Soevery morning, I made sure I go
over that countdown of how muchwe have until that field trip.
So they don't spend our wholeday wondering is to field trip
today is the field trip today.Or they keep asking me that
question. So I rather get rid ofall that stuff in the beginning
and check in so that we're readyto tackle the day. Yeah, I
think you're pretty wellprepared. So speaking of time,
(07:39):
where do you see yourself, youknow, say five years from now?
Awesome. So I do see myself inthe classroom. But I'm also
always been a lifelong learner.So I also do see myself enrolled
in some type of graduateprogram. And the school in
particular, I'm looking atBronwyn, but I think local and
New Jersey to be specific, I amlooking at a master's in
(08:00):
administration program.
It's a great stuff. I think Ifeel like every educator I speak
with is always a lifelong,lifelong learner. You know, if
you want to pat you want to passthat knowledge to on your, on
your students as well. So let'sshift that perspective over to
the faculty side. Now as youbring it, Professor Francis,
then, again, thanks for comingon the show. You're welcome. I
loved what? Yeah, well, I lovedwatching all your videos on
(08:20):
rcbc.edu. We have started makingfeel seen this or not, because I
was trying to dive in and checkout some of the education majors
and then her third video allover that. And I was like, she's
got a great personality, youknow, had her on the Facebook
townhall when I was producingthat a little bit rcbc mi Cosby
great first person for theeducation as we rotate the
majors here on the program podevery month. So again, love that
(08:43):
passion. But can you tell us alittle bit about your
educational background, and youknow how you got LED here to
rcbc? Sure. So
I have a multiculturalbackground. I was born and
raised in Jamaica, where I didmy first teaching credential at
shorter Teachers College, andthen moved to New York City
where I studied special ed,specifically, special ed
(09:05):
inclusive ed. So that's wherethat started for me, left the
island because it wasn't aprogram we had there. And I
wanted to explore that programand bring it back in some
capacity. Because of family, wemoved to Burlington County and
have been out here in BurlingtonCounty ever since.
So with this, also inclusiveeducation was a personal choice.
(09:25):
It was so for my entire academiccareer in Jamaica, I did not
have a single student withspecial needs in my classroom,
whether it's in K through 12 orhigher ed. And when I started
questioning why this was so Irealized it's because our
teachers were not trained toactually give or perform
inclusive education. So part ofwhat I wanted to study was
(09:48):
inclusive, which at the time wasnot a buzzword or a catchphrase
on the island. And so I knewthat I had to actually leave to
be able to study that so at backthen I'm not aged myself, but I
like to say I'm 25. So for thestudents were listening, it was,
come get it done, and theninfuse that in some capacity,
(10:10):
which I still do, annually, goback to my old teachers college
and do training on inclusive edfor the year three, two, and
three students were getting outof their teacher prep program.
So what does that entail for thestudents that are trying to
study that obviously, we have abird here, but but, you know,
they're they do. So until 2019was my first in person training
(10:31):
for them. And they did not haveit as part of their program. Now
they do it is embedded in theirprogram, and I still go back
this year, virtually last yearvirtually to do the training.
And hopefully next year inperson, again, it happens on our
CBC spring break. So it's theonly time I get to go home
alone. Take a few days, and I goback, and I do the training for
(10:54):
them.
So you want to when I was when Ireached out to everybody for the
program pod. I'm like, you know,if a student mind that, you
know, can stand out share asuccess story, because we were
talking Off mic before the showeven started that students
identify with other students,you know, because they they get
that passion or saying like, Oh,they can do it, I can do it.
Right. And you get inspired?What was it about Bert that
(11:15):
you're like, right away? Like,usually people like, let me get
back to you, you know, andthere's like, I think I just
sent the email, you know, soundslike, right back into Fox. It's
like one off. So
So Bert, I affectionately calledMr. Mayor. During his teacher
prep program, we he came throughthe first cohort of students,
and we had started our inclusiveed program before Rowan
(11:38):
University. So we were kind ofout ahead of the ball. And there
were changes happening whilethey were in the program and in
the cohort. And Bert, would eachweek come with a list of
questions from everybody in thecohort I keep we have a few
questions. And I told the court,it would be better if there's
just one email instead of all ofus emailing her and overwhelming
(12:00):
her inbox. And he took on thisleadership role pretty quickly
and almost authentically andorganically and the students
respected him in hispersonality. And the other piece
of what he brought to the tablewas the ability to almost always
see the best in every situation,the building is on fire. And
Burt says, well, at leastthere's a hose, we could put it
(12:20):
out, right? He doesn't go forthe building is burning. And
he's like, Where can we find thehose to put it out. So its
personality and the ability tomanage that manage work and
still be an honest student, hewas very strategic about his
work, very strategic about timemanagement. The quality of his
work was always impeccable. Oneof the things that we use as an
(12:44):
artifacts for the students belowhim with his permission, are
pieces of his work along withanother student, Justin. We also
use pieces of their assignmentsthat they've completed as
artifacts because they were sowell done. If you're looking for
something that you want to sayto students, here's what it is.
And here's what it should looklike. I can almost always reach
(13:06):
for those pieces and say, here'swhat your colleagues have done,
you set the bar pretty high, forsure the students that are
coming along, like thanks, Bert.
And they come back. So that'sthe piece of it is I have them
back to the class to talk to theyear three students about their
experiences. And it's just theglow on their, in their
personalities on their faces tobe able to share with their
(13:27):
students below them. Here's whatwe've done, here are some things
that you should do in the field.Here's how you interact with the
principal with a superintendent.I we were talking previously
about them coming in. And one ofthe questions that students ask
is, what do we do when we getinto clinical experiences
experienced next year, and I wassaying to them greet everybody
you see with a smile. And Burtcomes in 10 minutes later. And
(13:50):
he goes, one of the mostimportant things is greet
everybody smiling. It's just anawesome student, awesome
personality. Any district wouldjust be any district would
benefit from having him in theclassroom in which students
Yeah, I got that vibe when wewere doing the podcast prep
call, like last week, and justyou can vibe with people really
(14:11):
quickly. And I could see that,you know, the your personality
just shine through, you know,the video and the audio itself.
And it was it's amazing stuff.And I'm so happy to have
everyone here so far. But foryou know, your student wants to
get right. And now your faculty,was it everything you expected.
So it's, you look at it in adifferent lens. And especially
(14:32):
with the so one of the things wehave to keep in mind is that at
rcbc, we actually have toapproach to education programs.
So a lot of times we get tothree plus one, we kind of
forget that we still have thetwo plus two. So a student could
essentially come in and gothrough two years, transfer out
or stay with us for the next twoyears for the inclusive ed
program. And in both scenarios,it looks very different. So in
(14:53):
your first two years, you'rereally training a student to
become a learner. In your lastthree years you're training that
Students become a practitioner.Now you've switch mindset,
you're no longer just doingcontent. It's what do I do when
I get into that classroom? Andso for me, on the other hand, I
used to think, Well, myprofessors, they just take this
leap that I can't follow. Butfrom the faculty perspective,
(15:14):
now I see the why, why did wemake this big jump? Why did we
stop focus so much on theory,and on practice, and in doing
that, or being able to see thatit really changes the way I
instruct so I bring in a lot oflife experiences, to connect the
pieces for some students who maynot necessarily make that
connection easily. I encourageall of my students, once you get
(15:38):
to 60 credits go substituteteach, it makes so much more
sense. If you see practicalexperience versus, you know,
Professor debt and saying, Thisis what you need to do. This is
what a lesson plan looks like.It's different when somebody say
this is how you talk to yourprincipal versus your
superintendent versus right.your boss's boss is in the room,
what do you
do we have a superintendent.
(16:00):
It's interesting to be able tosee what perspective.
So you talked about establishingthose relationships and those
connections, how important trulyis that? Oh, that's
90% of your awareness, humanconnection. And being able to
connect with all the partners inthe room, especially in special
ed, you've, you've got so manymore partners than you would as
a gen ed teacher. And I alwayssay to my sped students, you are
(16:24):
a mini principal, in yourelement, you've got
paraprofessionals, you've gotteaching assistants, you've got
another gen ed teacher, day one,if you're in an inclusive
classroom, you're managing morehumans than any other profession
would put you in on the firstday of work. So human connection
is essential. And being able tobalance that not just going in
(16:45):
thinking I'm the boss, I know itall it's we're partners, how do
we all go in the same direction?
Right. And you would think it'sa little an extra layer in
inclusive education than China?
Oh, without a doubt, without adoubt. It's just a different?
It's a different plane for yourdoctor, I guess? Absolutely.
It's absolutely different. I'vedone Gen Ed, where it's your
(17:09):
world, you're almost isolated.You're teaching your content,
and you focus on that you teachspecial ed. And we do use the
term inclusion, but all of ourstudents can teach in any
special ed setting. So theresource room, push and pull out
12, one to one specializedsetting, but most of our school
districts are moving towardssome form of inclusion, because
(17:30):
we don't want to have thestudents in the most restrictive
setting. So you will hear usreferenced inclusion a lot more.
Because that's where we'removing in terms of the law. But
managing that human element is acentral
dragon. Did you want to I don'tknow get your your proper and
Joe in a second. But while we'reon the subject, did you?
Oh, absolutely. Thank you. Idefinitely agree with Professor
(17:53):
Francis, then, when we teach ina special education education
classroom, we need the mostdynamic teachers and I just
first I want to say to Burt,you, just sitting across from
you today has given me this,this just great energy, you are
fantastic. And your passion forteaching just illuminates as you
(18:13):
speak. And I'm going to just letyou know that you're going to
change lives. Those kids who arein your classroom are going to
benefit from your passion andyour energy. And I just want to
say to you that I am just in aweof how you have approached
teaching and what you feel aboutteaching because you're right on
point of what it takes to be aneffective teacher in today's
world. So you're going to befabulous. And I just know that
(18:36):
I'm going to hear great thingsabout you. And I think I'm going
to follow you because I normallythink about you. But we need
teachers like teachers whounderstand the passion teachers
understand differentiation.Teachers will understand that
you may have 20 kids in yourclassroom and have to work at
eight different levels and stillmake it work. Everyone in the
classroom has to learn thestandards, but they're gonna
(18:57):
learn it a different way at adifferent pace. And it takes a
great amount of commitment,dedication, planning and
execution to work in a specialeducation inclusion classroom.
Yeah, I was getting goosebumpswhen you're talking about
earlier I was like I felt solike another proud moment. Are
you gonna say the glow moments?Right? It is. Yeah, I mean, I
(19:19):
work with autistic children forthat for the radio station. And
it's you know, I know you gottahave that patience and but that
personality and that connectionbut it's always great when when
you start to connect and youreally get that like you said
that human you know the humanelement and sometimes you can't
really teach that it's almostjust by trait as well. But it's
it is oozing off you you havelike this aura chipper has Yeah,
(19:43):
yeah natural but alright, so Dr.Hackett here's a professional
little intro then we could havefor you because not you know
Last but certainly not least, ofcourse. We have superintendent
schools here for willingboro Dr.Neely Hackett. So again,
obviously welcome to theprogram, but how did you arrive
for your procedures positionthat you are All right now.
Well, thank you for having me.It's my pleasure to be here. And
(20:03):
before I answer that question, Ijust want to say to Professor
Francis Denton, Burt iswonderful. But it takes a
wonderful teacher. Awesome. So Ijust want to thank you for
preparing our future teachersand our future change agents. So
I just want to commend you foryour work as well. Thank you. So
my history is iced, I have donethe whole continuum. I started
(20:24):
as a substitute teacher all theway through to Superintendent
and I've loved each and everyjob that I've had in education,
because it's a different type ofconnection to the students, but
I loved every single one ofthem. And just to follow on a
bird's eye, roller coasterscenario, and as as Bert, when I
was his age, I went all aroundthe country, getting a roller
(20:46):
coaster. Oh, absolutely. Andabout two decades ago, my body
said, That's it. And so withBert saying that the roller
coaster was signified, takingrisks, enjoying the ride. For
me, the roller coaster alsosymbolized the need to make
adjustments. And in my life, andin my career, I've had to make
(21:06):
some adjustments. So my body hassaid, Now that roller coasters
are not up for you anymore, andmaybe try the ferris wheel. And
that's been an adjustment forme. And so I began my career
with a major adjustment, I wentto school for business
logistics, and then decided thatI want to become a substitute
teacher. So that was a majoradjustment for me. And then
after substitute teaching, Iwent through the continuum as a
(21:27):
teacher, and then as anassistant principal, middle
school principal, and then highschool principal, which is
another adjustment going intothe high school, and then
Assistant Superintendent ofcurriculum instruction. And now
I'm a proud superintendent.
And pretty much you doeverything right. What do you
what's your day to day type job?
Well, I have a great team. Butultimately, everything that
(21:50):
happens in a school district ismy responsibility from the lunch
to buildings and grounds topersonnel, finance. But it takes
a wonderful team to help me dothat. But ultimately, it is my
responsibility. And that
includes the hiring of teachers.Absolutely. So what kind of
skill sets or skill sets are youlooking for? In a teacher?
We just want to take Bert, andabsolutely, but we're looking
(22:15):
for teachers, of course, youwant a teacher who has the
content knowledge, I mean, thatis definitely understood. But
you know, I feel that when youhave a teacher that has the
passion that bird has, and thewillingness to go above and
beyond, we can work with some ofthe content knowledge, we can
provide workshops andprofessional development. But
that passion, and thatwillingness to go above and
(22:38):
beyond and that that innerknowledge that you are here to
change life, I can't teach that.And so that has to be already
inside of a person. And throughthe interview process, we try to
find is that person committed,dedicated, understand that that
person understand that they canchange the world, one student at
(22:58):
a time. And if we can pull thatfrom an interview, everything
else we know that we can dothrough professional
development.
I think that's one of thereasons why teachers want to get
into it in the first place.Right?
I teach and as all I've everdone, like Dr. Hackett have
just, it's I remember coming outof college at 19. And getting my
first classroom and thinking,wow, you know, this is, this is
(23:20):
amazing. And just telling Bert,if I should retire tomorrow, I
would have achieved my academicdreams of being a part of a
teacher prep program and seeingthem through to the end of that.
But you're right, Dr. Hackett,there's some things that you
can't teach. I've seen studentswho are excellent in terms of
their content, knowledge, butstruggle with their pedagogy,
(23:43):
their level of professionalism,and just the zeal to be in that
room. And I've seen students whohad the zeal, and we were able
to teach the content knowledgeand the pedagogy and then become
exceptional teachers in theclassroom. So being having the
right personality. And one ofthe things we kept saying, as we
were interviewing and talking toBert is I can feel your energy
(24:05):
across the room. That issomething that is so needed in
your classroom, your studentsfeel what you bring to the
classroom before they hear you.They see the smile on your face
before they hear you. I remembera student said to me once you're
saying it, but you don't looklike you mean it, right. So you
have to have the face that yourhigher persona needs to say what
(24:30):
you're saying it's it shouldn'tjust be your words, but it
should also be what you bring tothat
classroom. Absolutely. And Ithink our students are the best
readers of body language. Theyare they are they are very good
at it. They know when you firstwalk in that door, it takes
about two minutes for them todetermine whether they believe
that you care or not. They cantell right away they're so good
(24:51):
at it. And so that's why it'simportant. And I do agree with
the teaching of pedagogy andcontent. If you have the
passion, I went through thealternative route programs. So I
didn't go to school forteaching. But I had that
passion, I knew I want to make adifference. And because I had
great mentors, people took thetime to help me with the content
in the pedagogy. But I had thatpassion going in. And that's
(25:13):
very important,
I believe so. So one of thechallenges it was kind of
brought up in our, in our prescreening or whatever. And
hiring teachers is there's an Ididn't know about it until I was
talking until it brought it upthinking the original bio, that
there was a diversity issue inthe hiring. Can Can one of you
explain that or you have yourown conversation? I'll sit back.
(25:36):
And I think we're
there three differentperspective. Yeah.
I'd love to hear student studentfirst, for the diversity. We're
talking about his male educatorsin the classroom, right? K
through six. Is that Yes.
And honestly, it's K through 12.And I think even including the
college level. So I would say,as of right now, this is his
shtick is there's only 2% ofblack male educators in the
(25:59):
United States, where we'reseeing that in United States,
majority of our students areminorities, but it's not
reflected in our staff andfaculty. So right now, there's a
lot of studies out there andprograms on the way and grants
on the way to really try tofigure out the why. And to try
to figure out where can we go,and where can we drive this to a
(26:19):
different direction. As of whatI'm reading, I'm seeing that one
of the big factors is firstfinancial reason. So again, the
three plus one program is agreat asset for those students
that can't afford to go to thatfour year university, but still
have these dreams of being aneducator,
I think I need to not interruptyou, but I think I need to cut
that quote out and email to myboss real quick. Later on. It's
(26:42):
like, let's just play that, youknow, for our social media, you
know, your perfect example.
Secondly, I think a big part ofit is the workload that and
teacher prep program. So wetalked about the course load,
you're looking about 12 to 16credits, you're looking at some
certification components,consisting of Praxis scores,
(27:02):
taking standardized testing,background check, Ed TPA
process, and it's a lot embeddedinto your daily teaching your
daily coursework. So I think therigor that comes with a college
program of teaching is alsoanother factor then lastly, I
think a big factor of it is, andit sounds so simple, but I think
(27:23):
it's really true short that wehave students that didn't see
people that look like them whenthey were in K through 12. So
they cross it right off the listfrom the beginning, I walked
down the hallways of my school,and I have students that I never
even talked to before, they giveme a high, they give me a hey,
or they want to give me a highfive. And I think a lot of it is
they see another male, or theysee a minority. And I think they
(27:44):
automatically feel a connectionfrom there. And those
connections like Dr. Hackettsaid those connections help
students want to learn they wantto be there. And one of my
favorite quotes is childrendon't learn from people that
they don't like. And childrendon't care what you know, until
they know that you care.
Absolutely. I jot downrepresentation matters for a lot
(28:08):
of our male students, and thediversity, the diversity issue
is male. But it's also diversityin general, we the profession is
just not diverse. It'spredominantly female. And for
that female, then it'spredominantly white female. And
for as long as I've been ineducation, it's a conversation
(28:29):
that we've been having, I'vegone through so many versions of
I'm a product of Rockefellerbrother fund fellowship for
aspiring teachers of color, andthat's 2006. That's how I went
to graduate school, they fundedmy teacher prep program, just to
be able to get individuals ofcolor and minority in the
profession. And you're right,for a lot of us, it was the
(28:50):
issue of the finance, the PREPprogram requires you to almost
be full time. If you're not fulltime, then it takes six to eight
years. And people don'tnecessarily have that time on
finance. And then students don'tsee us a lot in the classroom.
So they don't think it'ssomething they can do. They
don't have the right type ofmentor. And so they want to
become a teacher, but there'snobody they really can connect
(29:13):
with that look like them who areactually in the profession. And
then a huge part of it is thiscertification issue. Where here
in New Jersey, it looksdifferent almost every five to
10 years. I remember when Ifirst moved here, practice was
an average of all three subjectareas. If you got the average of
it, you would pass now that youhave to pass all three subject
(29:33):
areas and then there is a TPA.Now we're arguing whether or not
we're taking that TPA back sojust the certification process
in itself, limit malecounterparts. And then I think I
want to just touch on one thatmost people might not
necessarily always want to talkabout. It's the financial issue.
A male could go with a BA intoanother profession, and probably
(29:55):
time and a half their salarythat would be presented to them
in the future in the teachingprograms, because teaching is
one of the profession where youfind equity in terms of salary.
So day one, Bert and I fresh outof college BA, we're making the
same money, we don't get tonegotiate our salary. It is what
it is, it's contractual. So it'snot like your other professions
(30:18):
where we know the reality inAmerica is that males typically
make more than female. That'snot true. If you're a K through
12, faculty, and I can almostsay the same for most higher ed,
where you're not allowed tonegotiate your salary. So that's
a huge factor. We've lost a lotof teachers who say, I can make
twice this amount doing you nameit, that's just the reality.
(30:41):
Sometimes I think they don'tvalue the actual, that
connection that you're, youknow, the lies that you're
changing is, you know, from hisbrand abroad where we can
just pay teachers better. Yeah.So how then what they're
actually where,
and yeah, we hear that a lot,you know, taking care of
educators, because you see, youknow, say professional athletes
that the money that they makeand stuff, but they're the ones
(31:02):
that are really, truly touchingthe lives. And that comes down
to the classroom? How can wechange it, and there's there
a couple of things, we have tothink strategically, we have to
be very strategic. And one ofthe things that I'm noticing now
that the three plus one programhas been completed and can run
its, you know, run itselforganically, that one component
(31:23):
that we didn't necessarily focuson was that diversity component.
So now we do have students whohave completed, one of the
things we can do is startlooking at how to leverage them,
they are in the field. And Ijoke with Justin and Bert and
the other male participant inour program that you are
officially our walkingbillboard, we will talk about
you every time we get anopportunity, you will go see
(31:43):
Justin or Bert or Tyler all theother students who have actually
made it through the program, youcan now say here are your
examples. I think for a lot oftimes, we can't say that I've
taught in K 12 institution wherethe only two male in the
building was the principal andthe gym teacher. And that's it
in terms of diversity. I've hadstudents in our teacher prep
(32:04):
program who went all the waythrough K through six without
having a single male teacher. Sowe need to be more strategic in
recruiting and retaining becausea part of it is not just the
recruiting, it's retaining. Theycome but they don't stay because
they're not properly mentored.And teaching is a profession
that requires mentoring a wholelot of it, a student who can't
(32:25):
listen, we'll make it a studentwho don't take mentoring will
not make it through a teacherprep program.
And that's a question I willfollow up on. On a second. But
Dr. Hackett, I want to get yourthoughts,
certainly. So when it comes tomy level, I think it's getting
the word out. So we've gonethrough the student, and we've
gone through the trainingprogram. So on my level, it's
about speaking to as many groupsas we can, I mean, anytime
(32:48):
someone asked me to go speak toa group of individuals,
especially a group of collegestudents, I'm always there
because I want to make sure thateveryone understands. And I
speak to the joy of teaching,the fact of how rewarding
teaching is. So I'm alwaysspeaking at different events,
always encouraging my principalsand supervisors to also speak at
different events, speaking toalumni, about coming to
(33:12):
willingboro, or any schooldistrict, but specifically
willingboro. So I think it'simportant that we continue just
to get the word out about howwonderful it is to be an
educator, because a lot ofpeople don't think that anymore.
If you listen to the news, it'snot the most rewarding field.
But internally, intrinsically,it is very rewarding. And that's
what we have to get the word outabout. So I have a human
(33:34):
resource director who attendsall types of fairs. And we are
constantly through our socialmedia, just getting the word out
that this is a great professionand can be very rewarding.
So if we could change one thingin Educational Studies, you
know, going from first level allthe way up to your level, would
that be it?
I think, as a professor, forinstance, for instance, that
(33:55):
said, it's it's about now, thatrecruitment, that mentoring and
on my level as well, once wereceive these male teachers or
diverse teachers, we want tomake sure that we're giving them
the mentorship, the training,that professional development,
you know, research says, If ateacher is going to make it,
they'll get past year three. Sothat year 123 is the most, the
(34:16):
most critical part of aneducational career. So we want
to make sure we're giving themall the support that we possibly
can, you know, throughout theircareers, but definitely in
years, 12212 and three, so Ithink that just making sure they
have someone to speak to makingsure that someone who not too
long ago sat in your seat isspeaking to them, you know, have
Bert come back and as a teacher,come back and talk to a class
(34:39):
two or three years from now andtell him about his experience. I
find that students who seesomeone who looks like them and
who has been in their seat nottoo long ago, I mean, I love
speaking but they look at me asyou know, ancient. So I think
someone who's been in their seatquite recently and just speaking
to them that would alsoencourage them as well.
To do Ah, that's it.
(35:00):
I think they've pretty much hitit on the boy, I think. And I
say I plan on really going inand still being an educator to
not only my students, but alsospreading and sharing what I'm
doing and that I'm in the fieldand that I'm loving my job. And
also being that role model toothers. Those are my classroom
that was in my building andthose outside of my building. So
(35:22):
I really take it as anopportunity to spread my and
teach others, but also take itas a moment of me being a role
model. And I always have my rolemodel status on like, I do it
naturally, to the point wherewhen I'm at a place, I think
it's like a magnetic becausekids are always finding me and
building these connections. Andsometimes I can't get them away.
(35:43):
But I think it's because of theway I carry myself. And I make
sure that I'm being a good rolemodel for males and minorities.
And hopefully that will helpafter Well, one child at a time,
it will make an impact later on.
I just feel like we've beenstrategic about a lot of things
in terms of recruitment forteacher prep. But this is one
area that we've not been verystrategic about, we can be more
(36:06):
intentional. We do have programsat stake here on campus, elf is
one of the program here oncampus that we could partner
with, because elf looks atminority students, we do have
very diverse districts. So wehave to be strategic about going
back and looking at theirtomorrow Teachers program or if
they do not have one canencourage those to be developed
in those districts. If we're notstrategic, then it's not going
(36:30):
to change because our students,they won't just automatically
have male teachers, we need tostart pulling those students who
are now in high school into theprograms to kind of start
changing that pipeline.
So we're at the recruitmentstage here. And we bring news as
podcasts, you know, the programpod itself, when people are
listening and doing recruitment,what's one thing you would tell
(36:50):
somebody that's considering acareer in the educational field,
at least open to the floor.
I will probably say try it. Getin the classroom Young. Work
with a group of students, Ialways say a group because
Babysitting is different.Babysitting is more one on one,
it's more of the home setting.But try a summer camp, try
(37:10):
sobbing try being a subparaprofessional, get into the
classroom and just try it, tryit out, see how you do with the
group of children, see how youfeel, take feedback from others
that can that watch you andobserve you and really reflect
with yourself and see if you cansee you doing it because you
want to be happy. You want to dosomething that you want to go to
(37:31):
work every day. So I say justtry it.
Yeah, I always say Seeing isbelieving doing is even way more
impactful. So you're right,going into that classroom,
substitutes each volunteer ifyou're volunteering, sometimes
you might not, you're not owningthe responsibility of the
(37:53):
classroom, but you're watching.And it's very different. When we
think about a classroom frombeing a student in that room, to
actually being an observer inthat room to actually lead in
that room. Go in the classroomand try it we are at a point in
education where we are indesperate need of people who are
excited about teaching andexcited about learning at all
(38:13):
levels, teacher aides,paraprofessional, lunch,
whatever that category is in K12. Regardless of your district,
there's probably an opening intheir school district. Go ahead
and just take a dive in see theschool districts. The quality of
the students life is dependenton the quality that you bring to
(38:33):
that classroom. If you thinkeducation is your passion, go
see it,
doctor. So there's a quote thatI love. And it says a teacher
affects eternity, he or she willnever know where their influence
ends. And I believe thatteaching is one of the most
rewarding careers that anyonecan ever have. Your ability to
(38:54):
change this world is done everysingle day when you just by
walking just by showing up towork and walk into a classroom,
you can change the world becausethere's a student that depends
on seeing you, that depends onspeaking to you that depends on
your words of wisdom and adviceand depends on your instruction.
And that student can one day, bein a position to really make a
great change, and you would havebeen part of that child's
(39:17):
journey. So I just think is oneof the most rewarding careers
and you'll as long as you're ineducation, there always will be
a story of how just one smile.One praise has changed our life
and our students will come backand tell you how you've made a
difference. And that keeps megoing. It's it's almost a 30
year journey. And I love everysingle year of it because I
(39:39):
truly believe that what I doevery single day makes a
difference. And if you want acareer where you know, just
because you're there and youhave that commitment that you're
making a difference in educationis for you.
I think we're seeing a glowingexample of right across the
table. Tell inspecting, and thereward because you know,
(40:02):
Professor Francis Denton alreadysaid she's ready to retire.
You're putting into retirement,almost but but not. And before
we wrap up into I could talk,talk to everybody a while at
length. And we already are fromsome of the previous episodes,
but something I took away fromour discussion that we had last
week. And I think it startedwith Dr. Hackett and you pass it
(40:23):
on to Professor Francis Dunn,and back to her was these glow
moments, right? As the glow orgrow, or both? Okay, so kids, I
know usually start out yourclassroom with everything with a
glow moment or the girl moment.But before I close my show, I
want to know everybody's onemoment for today. Anybody can go
(40:45):
first,
I can start my work, Michaelmoment was really getting to
know Bert. And I mean that fromthe bottom of my heart, because
as you know, you're you're doingthis for 30 years, and you're
meeting new people. And just toknow, 30 years later, after
starting my journey, that thereare there are teachers out here
or future teachers out here thatstill have that same passion,
and commitment, because we needit more than ever. And to know
(41:08):
that you exist and to know thatyou're committed to mentoring
others is a glow for me becauseit keeps me going. And it's
inspiring me to hear you and tosee you today. So that's my goal
for today. Awesome.
So today, Justin, and Bert cameback to my third year class to
talk to the students. And theyalso made it known that they
(41:31):
have officially completed theEAD TPA, which was the final
step in their teacher prepprogram. So that was the last
last hurdle. And they got overit. So officially, our first
cohort, they're done. They'rejust waiting for graduation and
the degrees to be conferred atRowan University. I'm excited.
(41:54):
So excited for them. He saidthat earlier, this must be a
proud moment for you. And Iabsolutely, I remember leaving K
12. And thinking, when I touch astudent, I just touched that
student and come into higher edand thinking when I touch a
teacher, my reach is endless.And at this point, I feel like I
am there, right at retirement by25.
(42:20):
So I would say my glow momenttoday was talking to your three
scholars. And I say that for acouple of reasons. So I one of
the big reasons is I remembermeeting Professor debt, and when
I was in high school, so back in2017, in the fall, and it was an
open house, and I was reallyjust inquiring about the three
plus one program. And so onereason is, it's nice to sit at a
(42:43):
table, and really share myexperience with someone that
literally opened the door forme, and was so welcoming, and
really introduced the program ina way that really made me
excited to complete it.Remember, I just
want to ask you remember,remember that it's amazing how
stuff works out though, you justyou're just showing up for an
open house randomly, you changedhis life forever.
(43:04):
And the second part of it wastalking to your three, but also
sitting next to one of mycritical friends. And we call
them critical friends, becausethey're pretty much your pal pal
through the program. It'ssomeone that you're calling to
get ideas from, it's someoneyou're calling for, when
something didn't go well, andyou need to really talk it out.
(43:24):
It's someone that you're callingwhen you need help on an
assignment. It's also callingsomeone where you just need some
affirmations or something orthem to give you that permission
slip to go do something to takecare of yourself as self care.
And it was nice to sit next tosomeone and again, talk to your
three scholars about goingthrough the program. And we're
really both sitting on the otherside. As Professor Francis
(43:45):
Denton said, we're both done atTPA. We completed the hurdles,
we're on the job search. Andit's so nice and rewarding. And
it's really us hopefullyinspiring other students. But
it's also a moment of Whoa,we're like, wow, we're talking
about us like we did this. Soit's very rewarding. Yeah.
(44:05):
And I can't wait to share thestory with everybody else with
here at the program pod. Andbefore wrapping up, is there any
final thoughts or anything you'dlike to say to anybody that's
out there right now or promoteany clubs, organizations events,
something they thank
you too? This is this is a workof a team, Dr. Lisa Kron Jia,
Dr. I know they'll Rosa,Professor Kristen Edwards, the
(44:29):
core team of this program thatactually made it happen. We
could not have done this withoutthis team. This group has been
here with us since day one ofthe inclusive ed program. And
without them it would not bepossible their students are here
but to have a team that you canalmost always depend on is what
(44:51):
really makes this program work.
I will say going off of whatProfessor Francis debt and said
is number one, express thatgratitude so they Thank you to
all of my cohort members, myprofessors, the whole rcbc
faculty and staff, the RowanUniversity faculty and staff at
the College of Education. Thesecond part that I really want
(45:12):
to focus on is something that Ireally kind of just summed up
this year, we talk aboutinclusive ed a lot, we talk
about how I'm gonna have abachelor's and inclusion coming
in three weeks. And I reallyjust want to I know, some people
might still be a little unclearon what inclusion really means.
Sure, and Dr. Hackett talkedabout it about how he's
(45:32):
addressing the needs of alllearners in your classroom. And
in the fall semester, I watcheda video that gave a really good
analogy of inclusive Ed. And I'mreally big into analogies,
because it's just the easiestway to break down something
that's so complex into easy wayof understanding. And when I'm
not on rollercoasters in thewinter, I do enjoy bowling. So
(45:54):
it really said it tied it backto bowling. And it said that
when you're bowling, you'rerolling that bowl. And when you
roll that bowl ball, you want toget them all down, you want to
get all 10 pins down. And whenyou roll that ball, you don't
want to roll it to one side,meaning in the classroom, you
don't want to just meet theneeds of some of your students.
You don't want to meet thosehigh achieving students or those
(46:16):
students that are low achieving,you want to roll your bowl ball
with a curve. And what thatcurve, you want to make sure
that you hit all your learnersmeaning that they all get the
necessary tools that they needto be successful with what
you're teaching. And that's theeasiest way that I sum up the
inclusive that. So no matterwhat type of education
classroom, you end in, everyclassroom environment is going
(46:38):
to have that inclusive setting.And that's what I'm walking
into. That's how I'm going towalk across the stage what I
need a roll my ball with acurve, so I can meet the needs
of all my learners.
I think you're ready to teach. Ithink you're ready to go. I'm
already feeling inspired, firedup myself. That's incredible.
Doctor,
I just want to say, just want toput on the record that if you
(46:59):
hear that analogy, and one of myspeeches, I will give you I will
give you all the credit in theworld. But you will hear that
that's an excellent way I am toexplain the concept. I just want
to thank rcbc for thepartnership that we have at the
willingboro public schools wherewe are accepting student
teachers and right now ourspecial education department and
our teachers have welcomed Ibelieve we have 20 Well 20
(47:23):
teachers and so I just want tosay that the willingboro Public
Schools stands ready and able tocontinue to accept our student
teachers is a great partnership.It gives them hands on
experience and allows us toreally do what we are charged to
do. We also charge to teachchildren but we're all teachers
all the time. And so it's greatto eat for us to work with the
student teachers and providesome hands on instruction for
(47:44):
them as well. So we just want tothank rcbc for the partnership
and Burt's taking thoughunfortunately to know but it's
been such an awesome experiencehere and sharing the story here
of the program pod and thank youeveryone again for coming on the
show. As it's going to wrap itup pretty much here for the
episode of the program pod andyou know as always, I hope you
(48:05):
enjoyed what's going down andwant to thank the guests again
today for Jordan three plus onercbc inclusive education major
and student teacher for MountHolly. You're gonna do an
incredible job. Thank youabsolutely. Our professor for
Vienna Francis then our fulltime faculty faculty member here
and education program chair atrcbc who's also do an incredible
job because we assume thesuccess story right across the
(48:26):
table right there. And Dr. NeelyHackett again, doing what you do
for the superintendent schoolsover there willingboro in
Sheridan, and sharing yourexpertise on the matter and
getting all our differentperspectives here. But once
again on Jay Varga want to learnmore about rcbc programs you can
visit rcbc.edu and for otherrcbc podcasts we have to offer
including the newly launchedBaroness podcast, which is
(48:46):
highlighting powerful women ofBurlington County you can visit
rcbc.edu/podcast And also besure to subscribe to the program
pod and any platform where youget your podcasts till next
time. Thanks for listening andenjoy those roller coasters.
Welcome to the program pod a production from the rcbc
podcast network that offers afirsthand perspective from an
rcbc student, faculty member andemployer. Hello, and welcome to
the program pod A production ofthe rcbc Podcast Network where
we take an rcbc program and do adeep dive from three different
perspectives faculty, studentand employer. Thanks for joining
(00:22):
the conversation with me, yourhost Jay Varga and for today's
episode, we're talkingeducation. And with me today, we
have Bert Jordan a three plusone rcbc, inclusive education
major and student teacher forMount Holly, Professor Kobina,
France has done a full timefaculty member and education
program chair here at rcbc. AndDr. Neely Hacket, superintendent
of schools for willingboro.Everybody. Thanks for joining
(00:44):
the show.
Thank you for having us. All
right, it's good to haveeverybody in person here. Have a
good time. In the know, yeah,I'm gonna share with everybody
else. But as always, rcbcembraces a student first
philosophy. So let's get rightto Bert, as an rcbc student, you
know, started shaping his pathtowards a career with Inclusive
Education, Bert, again, thanksfor joining the show. And you're
in the final year of the threeplus one inclusive education
(01:07):
program. Correct?
That is correct. And I'm happyto be here.
I'm happy to have you here. Sohow's the program been treating
so far?
I love the program. Since ayoung age, I always knew I
wanted to be an educator. Ireally liked the program, how it
really focused on that inclusionsetting in the classroom,
basically making sure that youmeet the needs of all the
learners in your classroom, andall the students that you will
(01:27):
interact with on a daily basis.And overall, I would say as I
reached the finish line, I feellike I'm prepared for the
program and ready to go outthere and make an impact with
our students.
How close are you to the finishline,
I am very close, I have aboutthree more weeks until
graduation,
you're already ready for you.
I am I am ready, a littlenervous to be a first year
teacher to be honest. But it'sall part of the it's normal.
(01:49):
It's part of the norm for a newteacher and a new educator. But
I'm excited to see the impactthat I can make, you're gonna
do a fine a fantastic job towhat we're having here on the
show to share your story. Andyou know, see where you kind of
grow with that. But what was ityou know, about rcbc that
brought you here in the firstplace, and especially
specifically to you know, tostudy inclusive education.
At first, it was to be honest,was the three plus one program,
(02:12):
it was the opportunity to save alot of money and still get the
certifications that I wanted tobe able to choose one of my
lifelong goals. I do have a twinsister, so my parents were very
focused on going the cheaperroute for college. Because
there's two of us. Sure. Sothat's what really brought me
here. At first I said I was justgoing to do a two year program
(02:32):
and then transfer. But afterbeing in the program, I fell in
love with the collaboration withmy professors and my fellow
classmates that I decided tostay. And also COVID It made no
sense to leave. But nowreflecting on my four years, I
don't regret staying at all. AndI'm walking out with a lot of
memories, a lot of knowledge,and very grateful for the
opportunity
is one of those professors inthis classroom or in this room
(02:54):
right here. Yes. We'll getthere. We'll get there shortly.
So what are you currently doingas a student teacher? Again,
you're at Mount Holly, right?
Correct. I mean, now Holly, um,I'm at the schools that ranges
from second through fourth, I'min third grade inclusion. And my
classroom we have 21 students.Eight of them do have an IEP.
(03:15):
And in that classroom on a dailyI am serving as the lead teacher
and our subjects. I'm alsoplanning on working
collaborating with the otherthird grade teachers and my two
cooperating teachers, a gen edteacher, and a special education
teacher. Outside of theclassroom, I'm also still
enrolled in college courses,where I am preparing assignments
(03:36):
for my instructors completingwork, and also talking to other
people, my program to make surethat we're all on the right
road, making sure that we'regetting our assignments done
empowering ideas,
where are you finding runningany downtime?
It gets fairly hard, but it'simportant as an educator, I do
make sure that I find thatopportunity because I firmly
believe that if I don't takecare of myself, I'm not going to
(03:57):
be the best educator everysingle day. So one thing that I
like to do is I do like to rideroller coasters. So now that is
starting to get warmer everySaturday you can find me
somewhere on a roller coasterwith my hands up what's your
favorite roller coaster? So myfavorite roller coaster actually
up to my favorite is velocitycoaster at Universal. So over
winter break I did spend sometime in Orlando and my close to
(04:20):
home my second roller coaster isEl Toro and Six Flags New Jersey
after going
Professor friends a friendDustin why you shaking your
head? No. Because again, this isan audio podcast so
I can't even do the one thatgoes around in a circle with the
little kid.
Yeah, actually funny. No KingdaKa right. Have you ever been one
of my favorites so incredible.And not to get too sidetracked.
(04:44):
But I was back in a couple yearsago. My wife was carrying around
like a recall the little purseor whatever. Fanny pack. Thank
you. Thank you, Fanny pack. AndI was making fun of her all like
all throughout the Six FlagsMike look ridiculous wearing
that this isn't the 90s andstuff. So she's keeping all her
belongings in that me just keepmy wallet and my shorts. And
(05:04):
then sure enough getting in thecar, we go flying all the way
up, going down. And all of asudden, as we're coming down and
going, Oh, you come down thatlittle what you do is or
whatever to slow down, becauseyou're coming so fast, all of a
sudden stuff just flying aroundon my face. And I'm like, what
was that I looked down, therewas my driver's license, there's
my credit card, I go to feellike my shorts, my wallet blew
out of the pocket. My wife looksat me, she's like, Who wants a
(05:28):
fanny pack? Now.
I love your story, J Now you'reactually not even allowed on
rollercoasters with like fannypacks and stuff. But I'm
actually happy that we went onthis sidetrack of talking about
roller coasters. Because since Ilove it so much, and it's a big
passion of mine, it does come upa lot in the classroom. And I
treat it as a learningexperience for my students. And
(05:49):
I basically teach them that inlife, you're gonna have some ups
and downs. But while you'rehaving those ups and downs,
enjoy the ride. And also, I alsobranch off of that and tell them
don't be afraid to take thoserisks. So just like you took
that risk with that fanny pack,I'm teaching my students every
single day to take those risks,whether they're big or small,
you're gonna be
a heck of a teacher. I can tellyou that. So, you know, and get
(06:12):
to everybody else. Just asecond. But are you? Are you
applying the stuff that youlearned from rcbc? Like, you
know, what Professor France hasdone has taught in your class?
Are you seeing yourself actuallydoing that to your students?
Now?
I do. And I actually find myselfdoing it very naturally without
even noticing. I'll give you oneexample. So one example is,
wherever I walk into a classroomor a group of people, I always
(06:33):
start off with checking it. Andit's very informal most of the
time, but I also want to knowwhat's new, what's your well,
moments? What have you learnedwhat's going on. And it's just a
way that I get to check in. AndI basically call it it's me
reading the room, I'm getting toknow the people that I'm about
to talk to, I'm knowing wherethey're coming from, what type
of data they're having. And I'mreally getting to connect with
my students that way. So why doyou think that's important? I
(06:55):
think it's important because ittells me and helps me foreshadow
that day. So for example, if Iknow that I have a student that
didn't eat breakfast, I knowthat I need to get that student
a snack so that they canfunction for the best. If I have
a student that really wants totell me about their weekend, I
rather get that over with beforeI start instruction, because I
know is not going to hold themback. I also have a field trip
coming up. And I have a lot ofstudents that still didn't
(07:17):
understand the sense of time. Soevery morning, I made sure I go
over that countdown of how muchwe have until that field trip.
So they don't spend our wholeday wondering is to field trip
today is the field trip today.Or they keep asking me that
question. So I rather get rid ofall that stuff in the beginning
and check in so that we're readyto tackle the day. Yeah, I
think you're pretty wellprepared. So speaking of time,
(07:39):
where do you see yourself, youknow, say five years from now?
Awesome. So I do see myself inthe classroom. But I'm also
always been a lifelong learner.So I also do see myself enrolled
in some type of graduateprogram. And the school in
particular, I'm looking atBronwyn, but I think local and
New Jersey to be specific, I amlooking at a master's in
(08:00):
administration program.
It's a great stuff. I think Ifeel like every educator I speak
with is always a lifelong,lifelong learner. You know, if
you want to pat you want to passthat knowledge to on your, on
your students as well. So let'sshift that perspective over to
the faculty side. Now as youbring it, Professor Francis,
then, again, thanks for comingon the show. You're welcome. I
loved what? Yeah, well, I lovedwatching all your videos on
(08:20):
rcbc.edu. We have started makingfeel seen this or not, because I
was trying to dive in and checkout some of the education majors
and then her third video allover that. And I was like, she's
got a great personality, youknow, had her on the Facebook
townhall when I was producingthat a little bit rcbc mi Cosby
great first person for theeducation as we rotate the
majors here on the program podevery month. So again, love that
(08:43):
passion. But can you tell us alittle bit about your
educational background, and youknow how you got LED here to
rcbc? Sure. So
I have a multiculturalbackground. I was born and
raised in Jamaica, where I didmy first teaching credential at
shorter Teachers College, andthen moved to New York City
where I studied special ed,specifically, special ed
(09:05):
inclusive ed. So that's wherethat started for me, left the
island because it wasn't aprogram we had there. And I
wanted to explore that programand bring it back in some
capacity. Because of family, wemoved to Burlington County and
have been out here in BurlingtonCounty ever since.
So with this, also inclusiveeducation was a personal choice.
(09:25):
It was so for my entire academiccareer in Jamaica, I did not
have a single student withspecial needs in my classroom,
whether it's in K through 12 orhigher ed. And when I started
questioning why this was so Irealized it's because our
teachers were not trained toactually give or perform
inclusive education. So part ofwhat I wanted to study was
(09:48):
inclusive, which at the time wasnot a buzzword or a catchphrase
on the island. And so I knewthat I had to actually leave to
be able to study that so at backthen I'm not aged myself, but I
like to say I'm 25. So for thestudents were listening, it was,
come get it done, and theninfuse that in some capacity,
(10:10):
which I still do, annually, goback to my old teachers college
and do training on inclusive edfor the year three, two, and
three students were getting outof their teacher prep program.
So what does that entail for thestudents that are trying to
study that obviously, we have abird here, but but, you know,
they're they do. So until 2019was my first in person training
(10:31):
for them. And they did not haveit as part of their program. Now
they do it is embedded in theirprogram, and I still go back
this year, virtually last yearvirtually to do the training.
And hopefully next year inperson, again, it happens on our
CBC spring break. So it's theonly time I get to go home
alone. Take a few days, and I goback, and I do the training for
(10:54):
them.
So you want to when I was when Ireached out to everybody for the
program pod. I'm like, you know,if a student mind that, you
know, can stand out share asuccess story, because we were
talking Off mic before the showeven started that students
identify with other students,you know, because they they get
that passion or saying like, Oh,they can do it, I can do it.
Right. And you get inspired?What was it about Bert that
(11:15):
you're like, right away? Like,usually people like, let me get
back to you, you know, andthere's like, I think I just
sent the email, you know, soundslike, right back into Fox. It's
like one off. So
So Bert, I affectionately calledMr. Mayor. During his teacher
prep program, we he came throughthe first cohort of students,
and we had started our inclusiveed program before Rowan
(11:38):
University. So we were kind ofout ahead of the ball. And there
were changes happening whilethey were in the program and in
the cohort. And Bert, would eachweek come with a list of
questions from everybody in thecohort I keep we have a few
questions. And I told the court,it would be better if there's
just one email instead of all ofus emailing her and overwhelming
(12:00):
her inbox. And he took on thisleadership role pretty quickly
and almost authentically andorganically and the students
respected him in hispersonality. And the other piece
of what he brought to the tablewas the ability to almost always
see the best in every situation,the building is on fire. And
Burt says, well, at leastthere's a hose, we could put it
(12:20):
out, right? He doesn't go forthe building is burning. And
he's like, Where can we find thehose to put it out. So its
personality and the ability tomanage that manage work and
still be an honest student, hewas very strategic about his
work, very strategic about timemanagement. The quality of his
work was always impeccable. Oneof the things that we use as an
(12:44):
artifacts for the students belowhim with his permission, are
pieces of his work along withanother student, Justin. We also
use pieces of their assignmentsthat they've completed as
artifacts because they were sowell done. If you're looking for
something that you want to sayto students, here's what it is.
And here's what it should looklike. I can almost always reach
(13:06):
for those pieces and say, here'swhat your colleagues have done,
you set the bar pretty high, forsure the students that are
coming along, like thanks, Bert.
And they come back. So that'sthe piece of it is I have them
back to the class to talk to theyear three students about their
experiences. And it's just theglow on their, in their
personalities on their faces tobe able to share with their
(13:27):
students below them. Here's whatwe've done, here are some things
that you should do in the field.Here's how you interact with the
principal with a superintendent.I we were talking previously
about them coming in. And one ofthe questions that students ask
is, what do we do when we getinto clinical experiences
experienced next year, and I wassaying to them greet everybody
you see with a smile. And Burtcomes in 10 minutes later. And
(13:50):
he goes, one of the mostimportant things is greet
everybody smiling. It's just anawesome student, awesome
personality. Any district wouldjust be any district would
benefit from having him in theclassroom in which students
Yeah, I got that vibe when wewere doing the podcast prep
call, like last week, and justyou can vibe with people really
(14:11):
quickly. And I could see that,you know, the your personality
just shine through, you know,the video and the audio itself.
And it was it's amazing stuff.And I'm so happy to have
everyone here so far. But foryou know, your student wants to
get right. And now your faculty,was it everything you expected.
So it's, you look at it in adifferent lens. And especially
(14:32):
with the so one of the things wehave to keep in mind is that at
rcbc, we actually have toapproach to education programs.
So a lot of times we get tothree plus one, we kind of
forget that we still have thetwo plus two. So a student could
essentially come in and gothrough two years, transfer out
or stay with us for the next twoyears for the inclusive ed
program. And in both scenarios,it looks very different. So in
(14:53):
your first two years, you'rereally training a student to
become a learner. In your lastthree years you're training that
Students become a practitioner.Now you've switch mindset,
you're no longer just doingcontent. It's what do I do when
I get into that classroom? Andso for me, on the other hand, I
used to think, Well, myprofessors, they just take this
leap that I can't follow. Butfrom the faculty perspective,
(15:14):
now I see the why, why did wemake this big jump? Why did we
stop focus so much on theory,and on practice, and in doing
that, or being able to see thatit really changes the way I
instruct so I bring in a lot oflife experiences, to connect the
pieces for some students who maynot necessarily make that
connection easily. I encourageall of my students, once you get
(15:38):
to 60 credits go substituteteach, it makes so much more
sense. If you see practicalexperience versus, you know,
Professor debt and saying, Thisis what you need to do. This is
what a lesson plan looks like.It's different when somebody say
this is how you talk to yourprincipal versus your
superintendent versus right.your boss's boss is in the room,
what do you
do we have a superintendent.
(16:00):
It's interesting to be able tosee what perspective.
So you talked about establishingthose relationships and those
connections, how important trulyis that? Oh, that's
90% of your awareness, humanconnection. And being able to
connect with all the partners inthe room, especially in special
ed, you've, you've got so manymore partners than you would as
a gen ed teacher. And I alwayssay to my sped students, you are
(16:24):
a mini principal, in yourelement, you've got
paraprofessionals, you've gotteaching assistants, you've got
another gen ed teacher, day one,if you're in an inclusive
classroom, you're managing morehumans than any other profession
would put you in on the firstday of work. So human connection
is essential. And being able tobalance that not just going in
(16:45):
thinking I'm the boss, I know itall it's we're partners, how do
we all go in the same direction?
Right. And you would think it'sa little an extra layer in
inclusive education than China?
Oh, without a doubt, without adoubt. It's just a different?
It's a different plane for yourdoctor, I guess? Absolutely.
It's absolutely different. I'vedone Gen Ed, where it's your
(17:09):
world, you're almost isolated.You're teaching your content,
and you focus on that you teachspecial ed. And we do use the
term inclusion, but all of ourstudents can teach in any
special ed setting. So theresource room, push and pull out
12, one to one specializedsetting, but most of our school
districts are moving towardssome form of inclusion, because
(17:30):
we don't want to have thestudents in the most restrictive
setting. So you will hear usreferenced inclusion a lot more.
Because that's where we'removing in terms of the law. But
managing that human element is acentral
dragon. Did you want to I don'tknow get your your proper and
Joe in a second. But while we'reon the subject, did you?
Oh, absolutely. Thank you. Idefinitely agree with Professor
(17:53):
Francis, then, when we teach ina special education education
classroom, we need the mostdynamic teachers and I just
first I want to say to Burt,you, just sitting across from
you today has given me this,this just great energy, you are
fantastic. And your passion forteaching just illuminates as you
(18:13):
speak. And I'm going to just letyou know that you're going to
change lives. Those kids who arein your classroom are going to
benefit from your passion andyour energy. And I just want to
say to you that I am just in aweof how you have approached
teaching and what you feel aboutteaching because you're right on
point of what it takes to be aneffective teacher in today's
world. So you're going to befabulous. And I just know that
(18:36):
I'm going to hear great thingsabout you. And I think I'm going
to follow you because I normallythink about you. But we need
teachers like teachers whounderstand the passion teachers
understand differentiation.Teachers will understand that
you may have 20 kids in yourclassroom and have to work at
eight different levels and stillmake it work. Everyone in the
classroom has to learn thestandards, but they're gonna
(18:57):
learn it a different way at adifferent pace. And it takes a
great amount of commitment,dedication, planning and
execution to work in a specialeducation inclusion classroom.
Yeah, I was getting goosebumpswhen you're talking about
earlier I was like I felt solike another proud moment. Are
you gonna say the glow moments?Right? It is. Yeah, I mean, I
(19:19):
work with autistic children forthat for the radio station. And
it's you know, I know you gottahave that patience and but that
personality and that connectionbut it's always great when when
you start to connect and youreally get that like you said
that human you know the humanelement and sometimes you can't
really teach that it's almostjust by trait as well. But it's
it is oozing off you you havelike this aura chipper has Yeah,
(19:43):
yeah natural but alright, so Dr.Hackett here's a professional
little intro then we could havefor you because not you know
Last but certainly not least, ofcourse. We have superintendent
schools here for willingboro Dr.Neely Hackett. So again,
obviously welcome to theprogram, but how did you arrive
for your procedures positionthat you are All right now.
Well, thank you for having me.It's my pleasure to be here. And
(20:03):
before I answer that question, Ijust want to say to Professor
Francis Denton, Burt iswonderful. But it takes a
wonderful teacher. Awesome. So Ijust want to thank you for
preparing our future teachersand our future change agents. So
I just want to commend you foryour work as well. Thank you. So
my history is iced, I have donethe whole continuum. I started
(20:24):
as a substitute teacher all theway through to Superintendent
and I've loved each and everyjob that I've had in education,
because it's a different type ofconnection to the students, but
I loved every single one ofthem. And just to follow on a
bird's eye, roller coasterscenario, and as as Bert, when I
was his age, I went all aroundthe country, getting a roller
(20:46):
coaster. Oh, absolutely. Andabout two decades ago, my body
said, That's it. And so withBert saying that the roller
coaster was signified, takingrisks, enjoying the ride. For
me, the roller coaster alsosymbolized the need to make
adjustments. And in my life, andin my career, I've had to make
(21:06):
some adjustments. So my body hassaid, Now that roller coasters
are not up for you anymore, andmaybe try the ferris wheel. And
that's been an adjustment forme. And so I began my career
with a major adjustment, I wentto school for business
logistics, and then decided thatI want to become a substitute
teacher. So that was a majoradjustment for me. And then
after substitute teaching, Iwent through the continuum as a
(21:27):
teacher, and then as anassistant principal, middle
school principal, and then highschool principal, which is
another adjustment going intothe high school, and then
Assistant Superintendent ofcurriculum instruction. And now
I'm a proud superintendent.
And pretty much you doeverything right. What do you
what's your day to day type job?
Well, I have a great team. Butultimately, everything that
(21:50):
happens in a school district ismy responsibility from the lunch
to buildings and grounds topersonnel, finance. But it takes
a wonderful team to help me dothat. But ultimately, it is my
responsibility. And that
includes the hiring of teachers.Absolutely. So what kind of
skill sets or skill sets are youlooking for? In a teacher?
We just want to take Bert, andabsolutely, but we're looking
(22:15):
for teachers, of course, youwant a teacher who has the
content knowledge, I mean, thatis definitely understood. But
you know, I feel that when youhave a teacher that has the
passion that bird has, and thewillingness to go above and
beyond, we can work with some ofthe content knowledge, we can
provide workshops andprofessional development. But
that passion, and thatwillingness to go above and
(22:38):
beyond and that that innerknowledge that you are here to
change life, I can't teach that.And so that has to be already
inside of a person. And throughthe interview process, we try to
find is that person committed,dedicated, understand that that
person understand that they canchange the world, one student at
(22:58):
a time. And if we can pull thatfrom an interview, everything
else we know that we can dothrough professional
development.
I think that's one of thereasons why teachers want to get
into it in the first place.Right?
I teach and as all I've everdone, like Dr. Hackett have
just, it's I remember coming outof college at 19. And getting my
first classroom and thinking,wow, you know, this is, this is
(23:20):
amazing. And just telling Bert,if I should retire tomorrow, I
would have achieved my academicdreams of being a part of a
teacher prep program and seeingthem through to the end of that.
But you're right, Dr. Hackett,there's some things that you
can't teach. I've seen studentswho are excellent in terms of
their content, knowledge, butstruggle with their pedagogy,
(23:43):
their level of professionalism,and just the zeal to be in that
room. And I've seen students whohad the zeal, and we were able
to teach the content knowledgeand the pedagogy and then become
exceptional teachers in theclassroom. So being having the
right personality. And one ofthe things we kept saying, as we
were interviewing and talking toBert is I can feel your energy
(24:05):
across the room. That issomething that is so needed in
your classroom, your studentsfeel what you bring to the
classroom before they hear you.They see the smile on your face
before they hear you. I remembera student said to me once you're
saying it, but you don't looklike you mean it, right. So you
have to have the face that yourhigher persona needs to say what
(24:30):
you're saying it's it shouldn'tjust be your words, but it
should also be what you bring tothat
classroom. Absolutely. And Ithink our students are the best
readers of body language. Theyare they are they are very good
at it. They know when you firstwalk in that door, it takes
about two minutes for them todetermine whether they believe
that you care or not. They cantell right away they're so good
(24:51):
at it. And so that's why it'simportant. And I do agree with
the teaching of pedagogy andcontent. If you have the
passion, I went through thealternative route programs. So I
didn't go to school forteaching. But I had that
passion, I knew I want to make adifference. And because I had
great mentors, people took thetime to help me with the content
in the pedagogy. But I had thatpassion going in. And that's
(25:13):
very important,
I believe so. So one of thechallenges it was kind of
brought up in our, in our prescreening or whatever. And
hiring teachers is there's an Ididn't know about it until I was
talking until it brought it upthinking the original bio, that
there was a diversity issue inthe hiring. Can Can one of you
explain that or you have yourown conversation? I'll sit back.
(25:36):
And I think we're
there three differentperspective. Yeah.
I'd love to hear student studentfirst, for the diversity. We're
talking about his male educatorsin the classroom, right? K
through six. Is that Yes.
And honestly, it's K through 12.And I think even including the
college level. So I would say,as of right now, this is his
shtick is there's only 2% ofblack male educators in the
(25:59):
United States, where we'reseeing that in United States,
majority of our students areminorities, but it's not
reflected in our staff andfaculty. So right now, there's a
lot of studies out there andprograms on the way and grants
on the way to really try tofigure out the why. And to try
to figure out where can we go,and where can we drive this to a
(26:19):
different direction. As of whatI'm reading, I'm seeing that one
of the big factors is firstfinancial reason. So again, the
three plus one program is agreat asset for those students
that can't afford to go to thatfour year university, but still
have these dreams of being aneducator,
I think I need to not interruptyou, but I think I need to cut
that quote out and email to myboss real quick. Later on. It's
(26:42):
like, let's just play that, youknow, for our social media, you
know, your perfect example.
Secondly, I think a big part ofit is the workload that and
teacher prep program. So wetalked about the course load,
you're looking about 12 to 16credits, you're looking at some
certification components,consisting of Praxis scores,
(27:02):
taking standardized testing,background check, Ed TPA
process, and it's a lot embeddedinto your daily teaching your
daily coursework. So I think therigor that comes with a college
program of teaching is alsoanother factor then lastly, I
think a big factor of it is, andit sounds so simple, but I think
(27:23):
it's really true short that wehave students that didn't see
people that look like them whenthey were in K through 12. So
they cross it right off the listfrom the beginning, I walked
down the hallways of my school,and I have students that I never
even talked to before, they giveme a high, they give me a hey,
or they want to give me a highfive. And I think a lot of it is
they see another male, or theysee a minority. And I think they
(27:44):
automatically feel a connectionfrom there. And those
connections like Dr. Hackettsaid those connections help
students want to learn they wantto be there. And one of my
favorite quotes is childrendon't learn from people that
they don't like. And childrendon't care what you know, until
they know that you care.
Absolutely. I jot downrepresentation matters for a lot
(28:08):
of our male students, and thediversity, the diversity issue
is male. But it's also diversityin general, we the profession is
just not diverse. It'spredominantly female. And for
that female, then it'spredominantly white female. And
for as long as I've been ineducation, it's a conversation
(28:29):
that we've been having, I'vegone through so many versions of
I'm a product of Rockefellerbrother fund fellowship for
aspiring teachers of color, andthat's 2006. That's how I went
to graduate school, they fundedmy teacher prep program, just to
be able to get individuals ofcolor and minority in the
profession. And you're right,for a lot of us, it was the
(28:50):
issue of the finance, the PREPprogram requires you to almost
be full time. If you're not fulltime, then it takes six to eight
years. And people don'tnecessarily have that time on
finance. And then students don'tsee us a lot in the classroom.
So they don't think it'ssomething they can do. They
don't have the right type ofmentor. And so they want to
become a teacher, but there'snobody they really can connect
(29:13):
with that look like them who areactually in the profession. And
then a huge part of it is thiscertification issue. Where here
in New Jersey, it looksdifferent almost every five to
10 years. I remember when Ifirst moved here, practice was
an average of all three subjectareas. If you got the average of
it, you would pass now that youhave to pass all three subject
(29:33):
areas and then there is a TPA.Now we're arguing whether or not
we're taking that TPA back sojust the certification process
in itself, limit malecounterparts. And then I think I
want to just touch on one thatmost people might not
necessarily always want to talkabout. It's the financial issue.
A male could go with a BA intoanother profession, and probably
(29:55):
time and a half their salarythat would be presented to them
in the future in the teachingprograms, because teaching is
one of the profession where youfind equity in terms of salary.
So day one, Bert and I fresh outof college BA, we're making the
same money, we don't get tonegotiate our salary. It is what
it is, it's contractual. So it'snot like your other professions
(30:18):
where we know the reality inAmerica is that males typically
make more than female. That'snot true. If you're a K through
12, faculty, and I can almostsay the same for most higher ed,
where you're not allowed tonegotiate your salary. So that's
a huge factor. We've lost a lotof teachers who say, I can make
twice this amount doing you nameit, that's just the reality.
(30:41):
Sometimes I think they don'tvalue the actual, that
connection that you're, youknow, the lies that you're
changing is, you know, from hisbrand abroad where we can
just pay teachers better. Yeah.So how then what they're
actually where,
and yeah, we hear that a lot,you know, taking care of
educators, because you see, youknow, say professional athletes
that the money that they makeand stuff, but they're the ones
(31:02):
that are really, truly touchingthe lives. And that comes down
to the classroom? How can wechange it, and there's there
a couple of things, we have tothink strategically, we have to
be very strategic. And one ofthe things that I'm noticing now
that the three plus one programhas been completed and can run
its, you know, run itselforganically, that one component
(31:23):
that we didn't necessarily focuson was that diversity component.
So now we do have students whohave completed, one of the
things we can do is startlooking at how to leverage them,
they are in the field. And Ijoke with Justin and Bert and
the other male participant inour program that you are
officially our walkingbillboard, we will talk about
you every time we get anopportunity, you will go see
(31:43):
Justin or Bert or Tyler all theother students who have actually
made it through the program, youcan now say here are your
examples. I think for a lot oftimes, we can't say that I've
taught in K 12 institution wherethe only two male in the
building was the principal andthe gym teacher. And that's it
in terms of diversity. I've hadstudents in our teacher prep
(32:04):
program who went all the waythrough K through six without
having a single male teacher. Sowe need to be more strategic in
recruiting and retaining becausea part of it is not just the
recruiting, it's retaining. Theycome but they don't stay because
they're not properly mentored.And teaching is a profession
that requires mentoring a wholelot of it, a student who can't
(32:25):
listen, we'll make it a studentwho don't take mentoring will
not make it through a teacherprep program.
And that's a question I willfollow up on. On a second. But
Dr. Hackett, I want to get yourthoughts,
certainly. So when it comes tomy level, I think it's getting
the word out. So we've gonethrough the student, and we've
gone through the trainingprogram. So on my level, it's
about speaking to as many groupsas we can, I mean, anytime
(32:48):
someone asked me to go speak toa group of individuals,
especially a group of collegestudents, I'm always there
because I want to make sure thateveryone understands. And I
speak to the joy of teaching,the fact of how rewarding
teaching is. So I'm alwaysspeaking at different events,
always encouraging my principalsand supervisors to also speak at
different events, speaking toalumni, about coming to
(33:12):
willingboro, or any schooldistrict, but specifically
willingboro. So I think it'simportant that we continue just
to get the word out about howwonderful it is to be an
educator, because a lot ofpeople don't think that anymore.
If you listen to the news, it'snot the most rewarding field.
But internally, intrinsically,it is very rewarding. And that's
what we have to get the word outabout. So I have a human
(33:34):
resource director who attendsall types of fairs. And we are
constantly through our socialmedia, just getting the word out
that this is a great professionand can be very rewarding.
So if we could change one thingin Educational Studies, you
know, going from first level allthe way up to your level, would
that be it?
I think, as a professor, forinstance, for instance, that
(33:55):
said, it's it's about now, thatrecruitment, that mentoring and
on my level as well, once wereceive these male teachers or
diverse teachers, we want tomake sure that we're giving them
the mentorship, the training,that professional development,
you know, research says, If ateacher is going to make it,
they'll get past year three. Sothat year 123 is the most, the
(34:16):
most critical part of aneducational career. So we want
to make sure we're giving themall the support that we possibly
can, you know, throughout theircareers, but definitely in
years, 12212 and three, so Ithink that just making sure they
have someone to speak to makingsure that someone who not too
long ago sat in your seat isspeaking to them, you know, have
Bert come back and as a teacher,come back and talk to a class
(34:39):
two or three years from now andtell him about his experience. I
find that students who seesomeone who looks like them and
who has been in their seat nottoo long ago, I mean, I love
speaking but they look at me asyou know, ancient. So I think
someone who's been in their seatquite recently and just speaking
to them that would alsoencourage them as well.
To do Ah, that's it.
(35:00):
I think they've pretty much hitit on the boy, I think. And I
say I plan on really going inand still being an educator to
not only my students, but alsospreading and sharing what I'm
doing and that I'm in the fieldand that I'm loving my job. And
also being that role model toothers. Those are my classroom
that was in my building andthose outside of my building. So
(35:22):
I really take it as anopportunity to spread my and
teach others, but also take itas a moment of me being a role
model. And I always have my rolemodel status on like, I do it
naturally, to the point wherewhen I'm at a place, I think
it's like a magnetic becausekids are always finding me and
building these connections. Andsometimes I can't get them away.
(35:43):
But I think it's because of theway I carry myself. And I make
sure that I'm being a good rolemodel for males and minorities.
And hopefully that will helpafter Well, one child at a time,
it will make an impact later on.
I just feel like we've beenstrategic about a lot of things
in terms of recruitment forteacher prep. But this is one
area that we've not been verystrategic about, we can be more
(36:06):
intentional. We do have programsat stake here on campus, elf is
one of the program here oncampus that we could partner
with, because elf looks atminority students, we do have
very diverse districts. So wehave to be strategic about going
back and looking at theirtomorrow Teachers program or if
they do not have one canencourage those to be developed
in those districts. If we're notstrategic, then it's not going
(36:30):
to change because our students,they won't just automatically
have male teachers, we need tostart pulling those students who
are now in high school into theprograms to kind of start
changing that pipeline.
So we're at the recruitmentstage here. And we bring news as
podcasts, you know, the programpod itself, when people are
listening and doing recruitment,what's one thing you would tell
(36:50):
somebody that's considering acareer in the educational field,
at least open to the floor.
I will probably say try it. Getin the classroom Young. Work
with a group of students, Ialways say a group because
Babysitting is different.Babysitting is more one on one,
it's more of the home setting.But try a summer camp, try
(37:10):
sobbing try being a subparaprofessional, get into the
classroom and just try it, tryit out, see how you do with the
group of children, see how youfeel, take feedback from others
that can that watch you andobserve you and really reflect
with yourself and see if you cansee you doing it because you
want to be happy. You want to dosomething that you want to go to
(37:31):
work every day. So I say justtry it.
Yeah, I always say Seeing isbelieving doing is even way more
impactful. So you're right,going into that classroom,
substitutes each volunteer ifyou're volunteering, sometimes
you might not, you're not owningthe responsibility of the
(37:53):
classroom, but you're watching.And it's very different. When we
think about a classroom frombeing a student in that room, to
actually being an observer inthat room to actually lead in
that room. Go in the classroomand try it we are at a point in
education where we are indesperate need of people who are
excited about teaching andexcited about learning at all
(38:13):
levels, teacher aides,paraprofessional, lunch,
whatever that category is in K12. Regardless of your district,
there's probably an opening intheir school district. Go ahead
and just take a dive in see theschool districts. The quality of
the students life is dependenton the quality that you bring to
(38:33):
that classroom. If you thinkeducation is your passion, go
see it,
doctor. So there's a quote thatI love. And it says a teacher
affects eternity, he or she willnever know where their influence
ends. And I believe thatteaching is one of the most
rewarding careers that anyonecan ever have. Your ability to
(38:54):
change this world is done everysingle day when you just by
walking just by showing up towork and walk into a classroom,
you can change the world becausethere's a student that depends
on seeing you, that depends onspeaking to you that depends on
your words of wisdom and adviceand depends on your instruction.
And that student can one day, bein a position to really make a
great change, and you would havebeen part of that child's
(39:17):
journey. So I just think is oneof the most rewarding careers
and you'll as long as you're ineducation, there always will be
a story of how just one smile.One praise has changed our life
and our students will come backand tell you how you've made a
difference. And that keeps megoing. It's it's almost a 30
year journey. And I love everysingle year of it because I
(39:39):
truly believe that what I doevery single day makes a
difference. And if you want acareer where you know, just
because you're there and youhave that commitment that you're
making a difference in educationis for you.
I think we're seeing a glowingexample of right across the
table. Tell inspecting, and thereward because you know,
(40:02):
Professor Francis Denton alreadysaid she's ready to retire.
You're putting into retirement,almost but but not. And before
we wrap up into I could talk,talk to everybody a while at
length. And we already are fromsome of the previous episodes,
but something I took away fromour discussion that we had last
week. And I think it startedwith Dr. Hackett and you pass it
(40:23):
on to Professor Francis Dunn,and back to her was these glow
moments, right? As the glow orgrow, or both? Okay, so kids, I
know usually start out yourclassroom with everything with a
glow moment or the girl moment.But before I close my show, I
want to know everybody's onemoment for today. Anybody can go
(40:45):
first,
I can start my work, Michaelmoment was really getting to
know Bert. And I mean that fromthe bottom of my heart, because
as you know, you're you're doingthis for 30 years, and you're
meeting new people. And just toknow, 30 years later, after
starting my journey, that thereare there are teachers out here
or future teachers out here thatstill have that same passion,
and commitment, because we needit more than ever. And to know
(41:08):
that you exist and to know thatyou're committed to mentoring
others is a glow for me becauseit keeps me going. And it's
inspiring me to hear you and tosee you today. So that's my goal
for today. Awesome.
So today, Justin, and Bert cameback to my third year class to
talk to the students. And theyalso made it known that they
(41:31):
have officially completed theEAD TPA, which was the final
step in their teacher prepprogram. So that was the last
last hurdle. And they got overit. So officially, our first
cohort, they're done. They'rejust waiting for graduation and
the degrees to be conferred atRowan University. I'm excited.
(41:54):
So excited for them. He saidthat earlier, this must be a
proud moment for you. And Iabsolutely, I remember leaving K
12. And thinking, when I touch astudent, I just touched that
student and come into higher edand thinking when I touch a
teacher, my reach is endless.And at this point, I feel like I
am there, right at retirement by25.
(42:20):
So I would say my glow momenttoday was talking to your three
scholars. And I say that for acouple of reasons. So I one of
the big reasons is I remembermeeting Professor debt, and when
I was in high school, so back in2017, in the fall, and it was an
open house, and I was reallyjust inquiring about the three
plus one program. And so onereason is, it's nice to sit at a
(42:43):
table, and really share myexperience with someone that
literally opened the door forme, and was so welcoming, and
really introduced the program ina way that really made me
excited to complete it.Remember, I just
want to ask you remember,remember that it's amazing how
stuff works out though, you justyou're just showing up for an
open house randomly, you changedhis life forever.
(43:04):
And the second part of it wastalking to your three, but also
sitting next to one of mycritical friends. And we call
them critical friends, becausethey're pretty much your pal pal
through the program. It'ssomeone that you're calling to
get ideas from, it's someoneyou're calling for, when
something didn't go well, andyou need to really talk it out.
(43:24):
It's someone that you're callingwhen you need help on an
assignment. It's also callingsomeone where you just need some
affirmations or something orthem to give you that permission
slip to go do something to takecare of yourself as self care.
And it was nice to sit next tosomeone and again, talk to your
three scholars about goingthrough the program. And we're
really both sitting on the otherside. As Professor Francis
(43:45):
Denton said, we're both done atTPA. We completed the hurdles,
we're on the job search. Andit's so nice and rewarding. And
it's really us hopefullyinspiring other students. But
it's also a moment of Whoa,we're like, wow, we're talking
about us like we did this. Soit's very rewarding. Yeah.
(44:05):
And I can't wait to share thestory with everybody else with
here at the program pod. Andbefore wrapping up, is there any
final thoughts or anything you'dlike to say to anybody that's
out there right now or promoteany clubs, organizations events,
something they thank
you too? This is this is a workof a team, Dr. Lisa Kron Jia,
Dr. I know they'll Rosa,Professor Kristen Edwards, the
(44:29):
core team of this program thatactually made it happen. We
could not have done this withoutthis team. This group has been
here with us since day one ofthe inclusive ed program. And
without them it would not bepossible their students are here
but to have a team that you canalmost always depend on is what
(44:51):
really makes this program work.
I will say going off of whatProfessor Francis debt and said
is number one, express thatgratitude so they Thank you to
all of my cohort members, myprofessors, the whole rcbc
faculty and staff, the RowanUniversity faculty and staff at
the College of Education. Thesecond part that I really want
(45:12):
to focus on is something that Ireally kind of just summed up
this year, we talk aboutinclusive ed a lot, we talk
about how I'm gonna have abachelor's and inclusion coming
in three weeks. And I reallyjust want to I know, some people
might still be a little unclearon what inclusion really means.
Sure, and Dr. Hackett talkedabout it about how he's
(45:32):
addressing the needs of alllearners in your classroom. And
in the fall semester, I watcheda video that gave a really good
analogy of inclusive Ed. And I'mreally big into analogies,
because it's just the easiestway to break down something
that's so complex into easy wayof understanding. And when I'm
not on rollercoasters in thewinter, I do enjoy bowling. So
(45:54):
it really said it tied it backto bowling. And it said that
when you're bowling, you'rerolling that bowl. And when you
roll that bowl ball, you want toget them all down, you want to
get all 10 pins down. And whenyou roll that ball, you don't
want to roll it to one side,meaning in the classroom, you
don't want to just meet theneeds of some of your students.
You don't want to meet thosehigh achieving students or those
(46:16):
students that are low achieving,you want to roll your bowl ball
with a curve. And what thatcurve, you want to make sure
that you hit all your learnersmeaning that they all get the
necessary tools that they needto be successful with what
you're teaching. And that's theeasiest way that I sum up the
inclusive that. So no matterwhat type of education
classroom, you end in, everyclassroom environment is going
(46:38):
to have that inclusive setting.And that's what I'm walking
into. That's how I'm going towalk across the stage what I
need a roll my ball with acurve, so I can meet the needs
of all my learners.
I think you're ready to teach. Ithink you're ready to go. I'm
already feeling inspired, firedup myself. That's incredible.
Doctor,
I just want to say, just want toput on the record that if you
(46:59):
hear that analogy, and one of myspeeches, I will give you I will
give you all the credit in theworld. But you will hear that
that's an excellent way I am toexplain the concept. I just want
to thank rcbc for thepartnership that we have at the
willingboro public schools wherewe are accepting student
teachers and right now ourspecial education department and
our teachers have welcomed Ibelieve we have 20 Well 20
(47:23):
teachers and so I just want tosay that the willingboro Public
Schools stands ready and able tocontinue to accept our student
teachers is a great partnership.It gives them hands on
experience and allows us toreally do what we are charged to
do. We also charge to teachchildren but we're all teachers
all the time. And so it's greatto eat for us to work with the
student teachers and providesome hands on instruction for
(47:44):
them as well. So we just want tothank rcbc for the partnership
and Burt's taking thoughunfortunately to know but it's
been such an awesome experiencehere and sharing the story here
of the program pod and thank youeveryone again for coming on the
show. As it's going to wrap itup pretty much here for the
episode of the program pod andyou know as always, I hope you
(48:05):
enjoyed what's going down andwant to thank the guests again
today for Jordan three plus onercbc inclusive education major
and student teacher for MountHolly. You're gonna do an
incredible job. Thank youabsolutely. Our professor for
Vienna Francis then our fulltime faculty faculty member here
and education program chair atrcbc who's also do an incredible
job because we assume thesuccess story right across the
(48:26):
table right there. And Dr. NeelyHackett again, doing what you do
for the superintendent schoolsover there willingboro in
Sheridan, and sharing yourexpertise on the matter and
getting all our differentperspectives here. But once
again on Jay Varga want to learnmore about rcbc programs you can
visit rcbc.edu and for otherrcbc podcasts we have to offer
including the newly launchedBaroness podcast, which is
(48:46):
highlighting powerful women ofBurlington County you can visit
rcbc.edu/podcast And also besure to subscribe to the program
pod and any platform where youget your podcasts till next
time. Thanks for listening andenjoy those roller coasters.
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