July 23, 2025 • 15 mins
This is a conversation about Intellectual Property. It is neither specific nor general legal advice. Werrdan Khoury, Principal Solicitor at Daniel Jude Lawyers, breaks down the fundamentals of intellectual property protection and explains why your brand's uniqueness is worth protecting through proper trademark registration.
• Trademarks protect three fundamental rights: your unique expression, your property, and your consumers' right not to be misled
• A brand is comparable to a face in a crowd – it has distinctive features that make it uniquely identifiable
• Registered trademarks (®) provide the strongest protection and are governed by international systems
• Unregistered trademarks (™) are self-proclaimed ownership claims that establish a history of use
• The most common mistake businesses make is choosing descriptive names that are difficult to trademark
• Creating a holistic brand package (unique logo, font, colors) strengthens trademark protection
• Trademark infringement cases hinge on whether consumers would be confused between brands
• Acting quickly is essential – intellectual property law favors first movers
• Delaying trademark registration or enforcement can permanently damage your rights
Contact Werdanhoury at Daniel Jude Lawyers for assistance with intellectual property matters.
Find out more and visit our website: https://www.cubicpromote.com.au/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The following episode on the Promo Playbook is on the
topic of intellectual property.
It is a general conversationand is not to be construed as
specific legal advice or to beconstrued as general legal
advice.
Please enjoy the conversationin the preceding podcast.
Welcome to today's episode ofthe Promo Playbook by Cubic
(00:21):
Promote.
Today I have a lovely guest.
We're going to be talking allthings business.
Lovely guest, we're going to betalking all things business and
specifically today we're goingto be talking about legal
matters around intellectualproperty and copyright.
My guest here today is WodanKhoury.
Wodan Khoury is a principal atDaniel Jude Lawyers here in
Sydney, australia.
Wodan, would you like tointroduce a bit about yourself
(00:43):
and a bit about your background,your company and perhaps a bit
of pedigree about yourself.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Charlie, hi, ladies and gents.
Thank you for having me,charles.
Firstly, so I'm PrincipalSolicitor here at Daniel Jude
Lawyers.
We are a commercial lawpractice, so we deal with all
things business, primarily inintellectual property, taxation
(01:09):
and general day-to-daycommercial contracts.
We've now been operating heresince 2020, and we kicked off
after having my brother and Istarted the practice after
working with our father for 10years before that.
So yeah, Brilliant, amazing.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Well, thank you for the introduction.
There simply is no betterperson to tackle the topic on
intellectual property in Sydneythan Wodan with his pedigree and
his experience.
So, if I may ask you, when itcomes to logo trademark and
protection, what are some of thesensible steps businesses
should take to protect theirlogo from copycats?
(01:43):
And specifically I guess I wantto ask is is trademarking a
logo the only option, and is itthe best option, or are there
other options available?
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Okay, there's a lot of great questions there,
charlie.
What I want us to do is take astep back and actually look at
what's the essence of theconcept of your brand and your
trademark.
What does that even mean?
Because that informs the beststrategy.
So best metaphor is like a facein the crowd.
Right, there's a million peoplein the audience, but there's
(02:14):
only one, charlie Luke, and yourunique face has a uniquely
sized nose, eyes, lips, shape ofcheeks, jaw, hair, tongue,
voice, emotional countenance,etc.
The same position is with yourbrand.
What?
Where, ultimately, every lawthat comes out seeks to protect
(02:36):
or advance a right that you have, either a human right or a
business right.
What is it that?
Your brand protection?
What is it that your trademarkseeks to protect?
Three things, three rights.
One, your unique voice ofexpression.
Two, your property.
It's your piece of property.
It's a species like a piece ofland.
(02:57):
Your brand is your property, soyou want to protect that Ring
fence, your piece of property.
And finally, your consumershave to be protected, because
they have the right toautonomously choose the things
that they, the products thatthey want to purchase, without
being misled or deceived intobuying pepsi when they thought
(03:19):
they were actually buying cola,so it's to protect your
individual consumers as well.
So, now that that framework isestablished, what is this
concept of a trademark?
Now?
The trademark ultimately seeksto protect all of those things.
The most primary thing toestablishing your trademark is
that you are unique.
You are unique.
(03:40):
There is no other tool that ismore strong than being able to
register your trademark, yourbrand, and when I say your brand
, it's a device mark, action.
People think of the logo, butthe logo isn't just the symbol.
It's the words involved in itand other things around it.
It's a device mark.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
So it's essentially what makes you you and what
makes a company a company, andso any imagery, symbolism, words
, text, anything that defines acompany and strays into their
individualism, is considered atrademark and can be protected.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
Or something that can be trademarked.
It's a device mark that can beultimately turned into a
trademark.
Okay, now, there are two typesof trademarks registered in
common law.
I'll get to that later.
It's a device mark that can beultimately turned into a
trademark.
Okay, now, there are two typesof trademarks registered in
common law I'll get to thatlater when we ultimately always
want to work towards theregistered trademark.
Now, to get there, you want toshow your uniqueness.
But the best strategy toachieve that, charles, is to go
(04:41):
in as holistically as possible.
So when you put in yourpersonal brand, you don't just
want to put in the words cubicproduct, or Coca-Cola just
doesn't want the words.
They want to put in the font,they want to put in other things
around it.
So you want to try and includeas holistic registered trademark
(05:02):
as possible.
And what happens is is thatthat initial registration
becomes like your root in theground, because then you can
gradually extend upon thattrademark.
So if you have a central cubicpromote trademark with the
symbols, the colours and theword, once that's locked in as a
(05:23):
registered trademark, you canthen edge out on top of that and
feed off that central trademark.
It becomes an ever-growingpiece of property Understood.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Fantastic, that's a brilliant explanation on the
trademark and what goes behindit.
But in terms of a customerhaving a logo, having their
branding trademarking, is thatindeed the only option to
protect themselves, or are therealternate ways one can go about
defending their intellectualproperty rights?
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Yes, of course, In a sense you've got your registered
trademark, then you've got yourcommon law trademark.
This is interesting now, Nowyour registered trademark,
trademark you've seen everywhere.
If you look at any McDonald'sor whatever the major brands are
, you'll invariably see a littleup in a circle, gantt's
registered trademark.
It's gone through IP Australia.
(06:15):
It's gone through the wholesystem.
It's been subject to analysis,objections etc.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Yes, and it's likely, and this is an international
system, it is regulatedinternationally.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
In Australia it's governed by Australia, so if you
go into another country, youfeed off what you've achieved in
Australia, but you would haveto be registered in another
country as well If you were toexpand to the US.
You have to submit to theirlaws Fantastic.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
I distracted you.
You were talking about commonlaw.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Correct.
So you've got the registeredfacility.
Then there's common law.
And that's pretty easy, charles.
That's simply you putting andyou would have seen this a
little TM next to yours.
Now that's self-imposed.
That's you.
That's the equivalent of a dogurinating on a tree.
It's a self-acclaimed form ofsaying that's mine.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
And this self-proclaimed form can take a
shape for small businesses andalso large multinationals,
because I've seen some very bigcompanies simply use the word TM
and I always assume TM havingsomewhat the same relevance as
our registrar, but clearly notthe same relevance as our
registered trademark, clearly,not no, it's self-proclaimed.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
It is an initial, very effective first step,
because what you're saying isthis is mine and you are taking
ownership, because part of theprocess in getting a registered
trademark is to show that youhave a history of use of this,
but also that you are sayingthat this is yours.
Why that?
Sorry, that's maybe poorly putthere and reductive in what I'm
(07:52):
trying to say, which is, whenyou're putting in an application
, you want to show a historicalproclamation of what is yours.
That's really powerful to show,particularly where there may be
an objection.
So if you can show a history ofsaying I have, for a while,
whilst I was preparing aregistration showing tmtn, I had
(08:12):
a history of use and a historyof proclaimed ownership which
adds, which gives you common lawrights which may be
challengeable, but it's at leasta beginning stage.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
It sounds also sensible.
Actually, when one talks abouttrademark and copyright, it
always seems those are very bigwords, especially if you're a
new business owner, and it seemslike a very, very deep, heavy
topic.
But in essence it's commonsense.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
It's common sense.
Everything in law is commonsense, not just Fantastic.
It always goes back to theseunderlying rights.
It's brilliant, it's sosensible, 100% proclamation of
your unique identity.
Own it and it's a no brainer.
A small TM is something you cando to protect yourself with
even outgoing to a registrarAmazing.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
I've learned so much in such a short space of time.
I'm sure our audience has too.
Still on the same topic,different question Common
mistakes.
You would have seen manybusinesses that perhaps you've
seen in the industry, perhapssome of the businesses you work
with yourself.
Are there common mistakesbusinesses make when it comes to
logo brand protection and howthey could avoid them?
But, hearing from what you justtold me, possibly the mistake
(09:21):
would be the history andregistering their trademark at
every step of the way.
I'd love to hear your thoughtsthere.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
Can I tell you the most common one, charles?
The most common one is choosinga brand name and logo which is,
in a sense, descriptive.
If I was to set up a companycalled the Burger, try as I
might, I couldn't do it becauseit's such a common name.
Simply it's a description.
Or if I was to try and get atrademark for the glasses
(09:51):
company or something glassesmanufacturing, that is very hard
Unless I can show a stronghistory of using that name and
nobody else has used it and itgoes way back and there's no one
that's challenged you in that.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
It's very hard to lock in a descriptive name that
makes so much sense, for obviousreasons.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
But you can try and navigate this.
Even if you have a descriptivename, a strategy to employ is,
like I said at the beginning,putting in a holistic device map
for registration.
So if you put in a holistic one, it's not just the words which
may be descriptive, but it's alogo, it's a type of font, it's
colors that are unique to you,and that's what you want to
(10:35):
ultimately be working towards.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
A total package.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Total package.
That's in a sense a way toaddress the pitfalls a major
pitfall, but a strategy reallyto deal with it.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
What an interesting, interesting answer.
I did not expect you to answer,that being the most common
business pitfall being adescriptive name of course.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Let me give you a great example of another pitfall
.
Oh, actually, this now has todo with defense of your works,
but maybe, if you're, but interms of registering, that's the
most, that's the biggest andmost problematic area that's the
most common problematic area.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
How does one go about defending a trademark?
Yeah great question, charlie.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
So now that you've gone to all the effort of
getting a trademark, registeringit, defining your uniqueness,
someone now comes along and isusing it, exactly your
hard-earned reputation gettingtrashed.
The technical term for that iscalled passing off.
A great case which you may haveseen in the news was the case
of mcdonald's versus hungryjacks.
(11:37):
Oh yeah, I remember that, thebig mac versus the big jack.
Yes, all right, hungry Jackswon that oh fascinating.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
Yeah, they had you as a lawyer.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
I would.
I'd fortunately know they wonbecause ultimately it was found
that even though both of themhad registered the Big Jack had
registered its trademark name,big Mac had registered its they
were found to the Big Jack wasnot misleading, it was not going
to lead to confusion and that'sultimately, in a practical
(12:09):
sense, the test that you reallyneed to be thinking about.
It was found that the big jackand advertising of that would
not lead people to think thatthey were buying a big pack.
It would not confuse theaudience and that's a critical
thing, it's a common sense thing.
The person who's coming upagainst you, who's trying to use
your logo or trademark,ultimately will it lead to a
(12:33):
confusion amongst consumers.
And if you can show that at avery common sense, basic level,
simply showing that I've lostcustomers, I've had people go
elsewhere.
I've had people contact mesaying that they're confused.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
It lacks that particular piece for a
McDonald's to win Correct.
It's that uniqueness.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
That's what it always goes back to.
So you would want to thenpractically issue straightaway a
cease and desist letter, Get onthe front foot and protect it.
The other thing to do is tomake sure you're using your logo
.
A lot of people go to all thistrouble and then it sits vacant.
It just doesn't get used.
If you can't show continuoususage, well then it's like a
(13:16):
piece of land that fences havegone into disrepair.
People can jump over and takeadvantage.
So as soon as it comes up, youwant to immediately issue a
cease and desist and be showinghow it is leading to that
ultimate confusion.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
I love how the way you define law in such a
visceral visual sense that Imyself, and I'm sure the viewers
, can really understand theseconcepts and these elements
because it's so visceral.
But for those viewers out there, I hope this session you were
able to learn a little bit aboutcopyright, intellectual
property and a bit more aboutbusiness protection as well.
(13:54):
So, wadan, thank you forenlightening the crowd and
myself for the past 10 to 12minutes.
If someone wants to learn moreabout intellectual property,
perhaps they had a query,perhaps they are in a conundrum,
perhaps they need to defend, orperhaps they need to register
(14:16):
and protect themselves.
How can one contact you?
How one go about starting theprocess.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Yeah, thanks.
The key thing is, in all ofthis speed of movement, you
can't delay putting these thingsoff, because every day that
passes off.
Every day that passes by someoneelse is either utilising
creating a logo or infringing onyou, and this is all a matter
of time.
You need to be the first.
This is all first mover.
(14:39):
As an area of law, it's definedby first movers.
Coca-cola got there first.
As much as I wish I could usetheir logo and font, I can't.
They were there first.
So being first always be,always being early is so
critical in this area, and ifsomeone is infringing, you've
got to act with speed, otherwiseyou'll have been considered to
(15:01):
be acquiescing.
So moving quickly.
You have my details below.
You can very easily contact me.
You'll have my number, myoffice number, my email.
It's always there at any timeif you wish to contact me.
Amazing, I'm always here andI'm very happy to help answer
questions.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
Thank you, wodan, and to the audience out there, we
will have the contact detailsfor Daniel Jude Lawyers at the
bottom, along with his LinkedInprofile.
There simply is no strongerlawyer in this specific space
than Werdan.
Thank you so much.
You're too kind.
Thank you to the audience forlistening to the Promo Playbook
by Cubic Promotions and pleasestay tuned for the very next
(15:42):
episode.
The following episode on the Promo Playbook is on the
topic of intellectual property.
It is a general conversationand is not to be construed as
specific legal advice or to beconstrued as general legal
advice.
Please enjoy the conversationin the preceding podcast.
Welcome to today's episode ofthe Promo Playbook by Cubic
(00:21):
Promote.
Today I have a lovely guest.
We're going to be talking allthings business.
Lovely guest, we're going to betalking all things business and
specifically today we're goingto be talking about legal
matters around intellectualproperty and copyright.
My guest here today is WodanKhoury.
Wodan Khoury is a principal atDaniel Jude Lawyers here in
Sydney, australia.
Wodan, would you like tointroduce a bit about yourself
(00:43):
and a bit about your background,your company and perhaps a bit
of pedigree about yourself.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Charlie, hi, ladies and gents.
Thank you for having me,charles.
Firstly, so I'm PrincipalSolicitor here at Daniel Jude
Lawyers.
We are a commercial lawpractice, so we deal with all
things business, primarily inintellectual property, taxation
(01:09):
and general day-to-daycommercial contracts.
We've now been operating heresince 2020, and we kicked off
after having my brother and Istarted the practice after
working with our father for 10years before that.
So yeah, Brilliant, amazing.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Well, thank you for the introduction.
There simply is no betterperson to tackle the topic on
intellectual property in Sydneythan Wodan with his pedigree and
his experience.
So, if I may ask you, when itcomes to logo trademark and
protection, what are some of thesensible steps businesses
should take to protect theirlogo from copycats?
(01:43):
And specifically I guess I wantto ask is is trademarking a
logo the only option, and is itthe best option, or are there
other options available?
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Okay, there's a lot of great questions there,
charlie.
What I want us to do is take astep back and actually look at
what's the essence of theconcept of your brand and your
trademark.
What does that even mean?
Because that informs the beststrategy.
So best metaphor is like a facein the crowd.
Right, there's a million peoplein the audience, but there's
(02:14):
only one, charlie Luke, and yourunique face has a uniquely
sized nose, eyes, lips, shape ofcheeks, jaw, hair, tongue,
voice, emotional countenance,etc.
The same position is with yourbrand.
What?
Where, ultimately, every lawthat comes out seeks to protect
(02:36):
or advance a right that you have, either a human right or a
business right.
What is it that?
Your brand protection?
What is it that your trademarkseeks to protect?
Three things, three rights.
One, your unique voice ofexpression.
Two, your property.
It's your piece of property.
It's a species like a piece ofland.
(02:57):
Your brand is your property, soyou want to protect that Ring
fence, your piece of property.
And finally, your consumershave to be protected, because
they have the right toautonomously choose the things
that they, the products thatthey want to purchase, without
being misled or deceived intobuying pepsi when they thought
(03:19):
they were actually buying cola,so it's to protect your
individual consumers as well.
So, now that that framework isestablished, what is this
concept of a trademark?
Now?
The trademark ultimately seeksto protect all of those things.
The most primary thing toestablishing your trademark is
that you are unique.
You are unique.
(03:40):
There is no other tool that ismore strong than being able to
register your trademark, yourbrand, and when I say your brand
, it's a device mark, action.
People think of the logo, butthe logo isn't just the symbol.
It's the words involved in itand other things around it.
It's a device mark.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
So it's essentially what makes you you and what
makes a company a company, andso any imagery, symbolism, words
, text, anything that defines acompany and strays into their
individualism, is considered atrademark and can be protected.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
Or something that can be trademarked.
It's a device mark that can beultimately turned into a
trademark.
Okay, now, there are two typesof trademarks registered in
common law.
I'll get to that later.
It's a device mark that can beultimately turned into a
trademark.
Okay, now, there are two typesof trademarks registered in
common law I'll get to thatlater when we ultimately always
want to work towards theregistered trademark.
Now, to get there, you want toshow your uniqueness.
But the best strategy toachieve that, charles, is to go
(04:41):
in as holistically as possible.
So when you put in yourpersonal brand, you don't just
want to put in the words cubicproduct, or Coca-Cola just
doesn't want the words.
They want to put in the font,they want to put in other things
around it.
So you want to try and includeas holistic registered trademark
(05:02):
as possible.
And what happens is is thatthat initial registration
becomes like your root in theground, because then you can
gradually extend upon thattrademark.
So if you have a central cubicpromote trademark with the
symbols, the colours and theword, once that's locked in as a
(05:23):
registered trademark, you canthen edge out on top of that and
feed off that central trademark.
It becomes an ever-growingpiece of property Understood.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Fantastic, that's a brilliant explanation on the
trademark and what goes behindit.
But in terms of a customerhaving a logo, having their
branding trademarking, is thatindeed the only option to
protect themselves, or are therealternate ways one can go about
defending their intellectualproperty rights?
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Yes, of course, In a sense you've got your registered
trademark, then you've got yourcommon law trademark.
This is interesting now, Nowyour registered trademark,
trademark you've seen everywhere.
If you look at any McDonald'sor whatever the major brands are
, you'll invariably see a littleup in a circle, gantt's
registered trademark.
It's gone through IP Australia.
(06:15):
It's gone through the wholesystem.
It's been subject to analysis,objections etc.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Yes, and it's likely, and this is an international
system, it is regulatedinternationally.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
In Australia it's governed by Australia, so if you
go into another country, youfeed off what you've achieved in
Australia, but you would haveto be registered in another
country as well If you were toexpand to the US.
You have to submit to theirlaws Fantastic.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
I distracted you.
You were talking about commonlaw.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Correct.
So you've got the registeredfacility.
Then there's common law.
And that's pretty easy, charles.
That's simply you putting andyou would have seen this a
little TM next to yours.
Now that's self-imposed.
That's you.
That's the equivalent of a dogurinating on a tree.
It's a self-acclaimed form ofsaying that's mine.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
And this self-proclaimed form can take a
shape for small businesses andalso large multinationals,
because I've seen some very bigcompanies simply use the word TM
and I always assume TM havingsomewhat the same relevance as
our registrar, but clearly notthe same relevance as our
registered trademark, clearly,not no, it's self-proclaimed.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
It is an initial, very effective first step,
because what you're saying isthis is mine and you are taking
ownership, because part of theprocess in getting a registered
trademark is to show that youhave a history of use of this,
but also that you are sayingthat this is yours.
Why that?
Sorry, that's maybe poorly putthere and reductive in what I'm
(07:52):
trying to say, which is, whenyou're putting in an application
, you want to show a historicalproclamation of what is yours.
That's really powerful to show,particularly where there may be
an objection.
So if you can show a history ofsaying I have, for a while,
whilst I was preparing aregistration showing tmtn, I had
(08:12):
a history of use and a historyof proclaimed ownership which
adds, which gives you common lawrights which may be
challengeable, but it's at leasta beginning stage.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
It sounds also sensible.
Actually, when one talks abouttrademark and copyright, it
always seems those are very bigwords, especially if you're a
new business owner, and it seemslike a very, very deep, heavy
topic.
But in essence it's commonsense.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
It's common sense.
Everything in law is commonsense, not just Fantastic.
It always goes back to theseunderlying rights.
It's brilliant, it's sosensible, 100% proclamation of
your unique identity.
Own it and it's a no brainer.
A small TM is something you cando to protect yourself with
even outgoing to a registrarAmazing.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
I've learned so much in such a short space of time.
I'm sure our audience has too.
Still on the same topic,different question Common
mistakes.
You would have seen manybusinesses that perhaps you've
seen in the industry, perhapssome of the businesses you work
with yourself.
Are there common mistakesbusinesses make when it comes to
logo brand protection and howthey could avoid them?
But, hearing from what you justtold me, possibly the mistake
(09:21):
would be the history andregistering their trademark at
every step of the way.
I'd love to hear your thoughtsthere.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
Can I tell you the most common one, charles?
The most common one is choosinga brand name and logo which is,
in a sense, descriptive.
If I was to set up a companycalled the Burger, try as I
might, I couldn't do it becauseit's such a common name.
Simply it's a description.
Or if I was to try and get atrademark for the glasses
(09:51):
company or something glassesmanufacturing, that is very hard
Unless I can show a stronghistory of using that name and
nobody else has used it and itgoes way back and there's no one
that's challenged you in that.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
It's very hard to lock in a descriptive name that
makes so much sense, for obviousreasons.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
But you can try and navigate this.
Even if you have a descriptivename, a strategy to employ is,
like I said at the beginning,putting in a holistic device map
for registration.
So if you put in a holistic one, it's not just the words which
may be descriptive, but it's alogo, it's a type of font, it's
colors that are unique to you,and that's what you want to
(10:35):
ultimately be working towards.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
A total package.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Total package.
That's in a sense a way toaddress the pitfalls a major
pitfall, but a strategy reallyto deal with it.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
What an interesting, interesting answer.
I did not expect you to answer,that being the most common
business pitfall being adescriptive name of course.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Let me give you a great example of another pitfall
.
Oh, actually, this now has todo with defense of your works,
but maybe, if you're, but interms of registering, that's the
most, that's the biggest andmost problematic area that's the
most common problematic area.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
How does one go about defending a trademark?
Yeah great question, charlie.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
So now that you've gone to all the effort of
getting a trademark, registeringit, defining your uniqueness,
someone now comes along and isusing it, exactly your
hard-earned reputation gettingtrashed.
The technical term for that iscalled passing off.
A great case which you may haveseen in the news was the case
of mcdonald's versus hungryjacks.
(11:37):
Oh yeah, I remember that, thebig mac versus the big jack.
Yes, all right, hungry Jackswon that oh fascinating.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
Yeah, they had you as a lawyer.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
I would.
I'd fortunately know they wonbecause ultimately it was found
that even though both of themhad registered the Big Jack had
registered its trademark name,big Mac had registered its they
were found to the Big Jack wasnot misleading, it was not going
to lead to confusion and that'sultimately, in a practical
(12:09):
sense, the test that you reallyneed to be thinking about.
It was found that the big jackand advertising of that would
not lead people to think thatthey were buying a big pack.
It would not confuse theaudience and that's a critical
thing, it's a common sense thing.
The person who's coming upagainst you, who's trying to use
your logo or trademark,ultimately will it lead to a
(12:33):
confusion amongst consumers.
And if you can show that at avery common sense, basic level,
simply showing that I've lostcustomers, I've had people go
elsewhere.
I've had people contact mesaying that they're confused.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
It lacks that particular piece for a
McDonald's to win Correct.
It's that uniqueness.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
That's what it always goes back to.
So you would want to thenpractically issue straightaway a
cease and desist letter, Get onthe front foot and protect it.
The other thing to do is tomake sure you're using your logo
.
A lot of people go to all thistrouble and then it sits vacant.
It just doesn't get used.
If you can't show continuoususage, well then it's like a
(13:16):
piece of land that fences havegone into disrepair.
People can jump over and takeadvantage.
So as soon as it comes up, youwant to immediately issue a
cease and desist and be showinghow it is leading to that
ultimate confusion.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
I love how the way you define law in such a
visceral visual sense that Imyself, and I'm sure the viewers
, can really understand theseconcepts and these elements
because it's so visceral.
But for those viewers out there, I hope this session you were
able to learn a little bit aboutcopyright, intellectual
property and a bit more aboutbusiness protection as well.
(13:54):
So, wadan, thank you forenlightening the crowd and
myself for the past 10 to 12minutes.
If someone wants to learn moreabout intellectual property,
perhaps they had a query,perhaps they are in a conundrum,
perhaps they need to defend, orperhaps they need to register
(14:16):
and protect themselves.
How can one contact you?
How one go about starting theprocess.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Yeah, thanks.
The key thing is, in all ofthis speed of movement, you
can't delay putting these thingsoff, because every day that
passes off.
Every day that passes by someoneelse is either utilising
creating a logo or infringing onyou, and this is all a matter
of time.
You need to be the first.
This is all first mover.
(14:39):
As an area of law, it's definedby first movers.
Coca-cola got there first.
As much as I wish I could usetheir logo and font, I can't.
They were there first.
So being first always be,always being early is so
critical in this area, and ifsomeone is infringing, you've
got to act with speed, otherwiseyou'll have been considered to
(15:01):
be acquiescing.
So moving quickly.
You have my details below.
You can very easily contact me.
You'll have my number, myoffice number, my email.
It's always there at any timeif you wish to contact me.
Amazing, I'm always here andI'm very happy to help answer
questions.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
Thank you, wodan, and to the audience out there, we
will have the contact detailsfor Daniel Jude Lawyers at the
bottom, along with his LinkedInprofile.
There simply is no strongerlawyer in this specific space
than Werdan.
Thank you so much.
You're too kind.
Thank you to the audience forlistening to the Promo Playbook
by Cubic Promotions and pleasestay tuned for the very next
(15:42):
episode.
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