EP. 1448 “Private vs Public: How Northern Beaches schools shift the market”

The old saying that school choice "doesn't matter until it does" perfectly captures the educational dilemma facing Northern Beaches families today. When that moment arrives, it transforms into one of the most significant factors driving property decisions across the region.

School zoning has evolved dramatically over the years, creating rigid geographical boundaries that determine educational access. Property manager Cleo Wichia shares remarkable stories of families renting homes with too few bedrooms or no parking—simply to secure an address within coveted school catchments like Curl Curl Public. Some parents go even further, paying for entire leases without actually living in properties just to qualify for prestigious school applications.

The financial commitment required for private education remains substantial, with Northern Beaches private schools charging anywhere from $11,000 to over $25,000 annually, particularly as students progress toward senior years. Yet for many families, these costs reflect deeper considerations about religious values, disciplinary approaches, and community connections they believe will benefit their children.

Perhaps most fascinating is the cultural contrast between Sydney regions. While Eastern Suburbs social interactions often begin with "What school did you go to?", the Northern Beaches historically shared a unified surf culture where educational pedigree carried less social weight. This regional distinction continues to influence how families approach schooling decisions today, though priorities are gradually shifting.

Despite these educational considerations, property values across most Northern Beaches suburbs remain relatively unaffected by school zoning—with notable exceptions in areas like Curl Curl and Freshwater. The podcast hosts agree that across the region, families are fortunate to have strong educational options regardless of whether they choose public or private pathways. What's your experience with school catchment influencing property decisions? Share your thoughts in the comments!

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
okay, private schools versus public schools.
It is a real thing, doesn'tmatter.
Doesn't matter until itactually does.
We're going to talk about andhow it affects the property
market.
Stay tuned, I'm the ringleader,so let's go.

(00:27):
Cleo Wichia there is no Wichiaproperty manager in the country
than Cleo Wichia.
Good morning to you.

Speaker 2 (00:42):
Good morning.
How are you, Mark?

Speaker 1 (00:44):
Very good thanks.
Very good thanks.
Property manager, 16 years,You've seen it all.
My kids were listening toTeacher's Pet on a podcast when
they were driving to CoffsHarbour, so they had lots of
questions about Cromwell HighSchool for me over the weekend.
You're putting Xeno into schoolapplications.

(01:11):
At the moment, this schoolthing like it doesn't matter and
no one cares until they do.

Speaker 2 (01:21):
And now it's a big thing, it's true, it's so true.
And it also doesn't even juststart in high school.
It starts in primary school,when you rent a property, when
you buy property and you're aparent, you're looking at your
areas of schooling when you'repurchasing and renting.
So when I went to school therewasn't such thing as as zones.

(01:44):
I don't feel that it was soblack and white.
If you lived here you couldn'tgo to that school, you could
just go to any school.
There was placements in everyschool.
You know it wasn't a big deal.
Um, as far as you know, if youlived in Narragane and you
wanted to go to Mona Vale public, or you went to Mona Vale
public and you want to go toNarrabeen public, now it's like

(02:06):
a divide of the roads and theapplications are very serious
when it comes to being acceptedin certain schools.
So we do get a lot of familiesthat ask do you have anything in
Curl Curl?
My kid really wants to go toCurl Curl Public because it's a
phenomenal, hard-boiled public,phenomenal, very popular primary

(02:29):
school.
But it only has enough room fora certain amount of students.
So if anything comes up inthose areas for rent whether
there's a bedroom, too small, noparking, it's old, they just
jump on it because the schoolinghas nothing to do with the
needs of the property which, andand for people that don't know

(02:51):
what, what happens then?

Speaker 1 (02:52):
so you give that lease to in the school
application, you submit thatlease, then they say, okay,
you're in the zone and then thatincreases your chances.

Speaker 2 (03:05):
Yeah, it's almost automatic.
That's the only reason that youwouldn't be allowed to apply if
you weren't from that zone, sothese leases are very important
from primary school on up.

Speaker 1 (03:18):
And then you're also looking at, you know, tertiary
education.

Speaker 2 (03:22):
So you're looking at high schools then from there, so
you've also got a plan aheadfor that zoning.
Then I had a friend and clientthat needed a property in the
Stella Maris catchment and hewas happy to pay, you know, the
whole lease just so he could gethis kid into this school
without being there.

Speaker 1 (03:45):
So like and again, I'm going to break this down to
be real simple for some people,Because obviously there's even
people who watch the show thatare overseas.
So I want to break this down soif you go through the public
system, that's for free.
So if you go through the publicsystem, that's for free.
If you go through the privatesystem, there's a certain cost,

(04:06):
but it escalates as you getcloser to year 12, being 1 to 12
.
So what are you paying?

Speaker 2 (04:14):
for a private school in all the beaches these days,
anywhere up from $11,000 to$25,000 a year for the first few
years in high school, stolen,yeah, and I believe there are
schools that exceed that.
Obviously.
You know this jumps through mylife, my son being 11.

(04:36):
All I do is ask the girls inthe office that have had all
their kids come out of highschool what do you know, one of
our lovely Nikki, she puts threein St Luke's.
I was like, oh my god, likehuge expense, huge expense.
And you know it was one of thetop schools for TR results last
year, so understandably they cancharge that much.

(04:57):
But you know, I was of themindset.
Well, I'm from that generation,you know where I'm, you know a
Gen X.
I don't care.
I left it to last minute, lastminute applications.
I was like what do you mean?
It's gonna be now for thebeginning of year five.
I was like I was waiting forthe year six, see how he goes.

(05:18):
And then no, no, no, you haveto be way more prepared so where
did you go I?
went to marta in warrywoodthat's private 92 and finished
in 97.
I remember a speech our year 10coordinated or year nine
coordinated gave.

(05:39):
I won't say his name, but hewas a legend.
He just said because back thenmartyrs still co-ed Catholic,
but you know, you still paidschool fees that exceeded public
schooling.
It wasn't private, private, sonot very expensive, a little bit
above average anyway.
He basically stood up to theyear and he said you, you, what,

(06:03):
you, what, you, what.
He pointed to a bunch of kidsthat were not paying any
attention or whatever, and hegoes save your parents, the
school fees, go to narrabeen,don't even bother wasting your
time.
I was like wow they got theirattention.

Speaker 1 (06:19):
So so you went through private and you've sent
your kids to public.

Speaker 2 (06:26):
Yes.
So I sent Zeno to a publicschool in Wernival because at
that time he was an only childbefore my daughter and we
thought, well, he needs to be ina big school with lots of kids
and not a little niche catholicschool, because we thought that
he would be better to that sortof environment exposure.

(06:48):
Um, then we changed our mindsand thought, well, we would
prefer him to go to a couple ofthe local catholic schools that
were a little bit smaller and atthat point they were full, they
had no more placements.
So that, yeah, so that, put thecar wash on that.
And plus, now he's not an onlychild, he's got a three-year-old

(07:08):
sister.

Speaker 1 (07:09):
So you know, it didn't make any difference yeah
right, because I went throughCromer High School and I never
even thought twice about it andthrough chroma high school and I
never even thought twice aboutit.
And when I met lisa and um,kids came along, school came
along, then it was I sort ofdidn't even think about it.

(07:30):
I sort of probably soundsreally silly, but by default
sort of lisa was like book thekids in and then it was like go
time and then obviously schoolfees and stuff, like it's a hell
of a lot of money, the kidswent through private.
You know where we brought thekids up around, sort of in the

(07:57):
east there wasn't a lot ofpublic school selection, like
the northern beaches, um, so itwas probably more of a natural
progression.
And actually the weirdest thingwas when I, um, when I was in my
early 20s and lisa and I um metand got married, um, no one
spoke about school in thenorthern beaches.

(08:18):
And whenever I went to afunction in the East it was
always what school did you go to?
And I always found that really,really weird because I was like
you know, does that?
Like, within the first coupleof sentences people are like
what school did you go to?
And I never had that before inthe Northern Beaches.

(08:39):
I'm like this is weird, soanyway, why?

Speaker 2 (08:44):
because on the northern beaches, the public
schools and the schools aroundhere were all of the same
culture.
We were a surf culture when wegrew up.
It was about bands, it wasabout beach.
It wasn't about academia,academics or schooling, so it
didn't really matter who's whoin the zoo.
We all just wanted to surf, bea famous pro surfer, go to

(09:08):
listen to live music, and so allthe schools were that sort of
way inclined.
It wasn't you're going to be alawyer, you're going to be a
doctor, you need to go to be adoctor, you need to go to this
kind of schooling.

Speaker 1 (09:29):
Yeah, like it was, I think Lisa's just dobbed me in.
So then I started sort ofgetting annoyed by the question
and I thought you know, if youcan't beat them, join them.
So I actually told people Iwent to grammar.

Speaker 2 (09:39):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (09:40):
And they went grandma , You're a grandma boy.
And I was like, yeah, Yep,grandma boy, Yep, through and
through, but but it's OK.
So for anyone who doesn't know,it's a real thing guys and
girls, Merits for going to aprivate over a public for Zeno.

(10:05):
Can you explain that?
In the northern beaches I dothink it's different northern
beaches, eastern suburbs, innerwest, because of things you said
like surf, cultures and stufflike that.
Why have you gone down therabbit hole of private now?

Speaker 2 (10:20):
You know, the school that we're choosing is not so
much as private, it's more justa Christian school, a Catholic
school.
So I do feel like we wantreligion in our son's life, in
our lives.
We are, you know, christian andthe discipline aspect of that
as well.
You know, public schooling isgreat, but we just feel our son

(10:43):
needs a little bit more of thatnudge into, you know, a certain
certain type of, you know,grooming, as you would say not,
you know, not like the Pope,grooming sort of stuff, but
grooming and seeing.
You know, you know the way thatyou look, the way that you
dress, the way.

(11:03):
I mean the public schools stillhave emphasis of that but
there's not a lot of, I don'tthink, repercussions.
I remember when I was in highschool, if your hair elastic
wasn't the same, the right color, you were up to the office and
you were in trouble and you hadto change it.
You could only have one earring.
It was like there were certainrules and I think that we need

(11:25):
to get it.

Speaker 1 (11:26):
I think it was.
I think it was a sign anelderly person was telling me
the mother-in-law mom, so Ican't remember someone telling
me that they used to checkundies still being the same
color.
I can imagine that these days,ities, it's all been the same
colour.
I can imagine that these daysit's changed.
It's changed Before we go, stopit, you can't.
Before we go, apparently, it'strue.
Before we go.

(11:46):
Has it intrinsically affectedrent or property values as to
the areas that you are, valuesas to the areas that you are?
Would you say, like you'veobviously acknowledged, there's
a difference and people do chasea postcode, but would you say

(12:06):
the rents are higher or thesales prices are higher as a
result of it.

Speaker 2 (12:11):
I don't think so.
No, because I think we've gotan even spread of schooling, of
all public schooling.
Because I think we've got aneven spread of schooling of all
public schooling.
For example, my area you've gotNarrabeen High, Pitwater High,
Barron, Joey High.
They're all great schools, forwhatever reason, and they're,
all you know, evenly spread.
So I don't think that it reallyaffects our rental prices.

Speaker 1 (12:35):
no, Apart from Curl, Curl and Freshies for some
reason those little pocketsthere in harvard in freshwater,
it's a real thing their ratesare higher for that reason I
would agree with you.
I think on the on the northernbeaches, the one that I'll get,
that that I'll hear the most, isthat curl, curl, curl um public

(12:59):
school people bloody love it.

Speaker 2 (13:02):
They do, they do, they love it.
It's a real community and theywant to get in there.
Um, yeah, look, we're notnervous about it.
I don't feel like there's anywrong choice, really, where we
live.
I think everywhere there aregood teachers, good people,
families are spread all ourfamilies and friends and will be
spread out at all schools.

(13:23):
So it's not the all in a.
You know it's not going to endend our lives but at the same
time it's an interesting time,that's for sure.

Speaker 1 (13:33):
Um, but yeah, I've got a funny fact as well.

Speaker 2 (13:36):
When we were in high school, if you wore the wrong
jewellery and they confiscatedit off you, you had to buy it
back for $2.

Speaker 1 (13:45):
No, that's so wrong.
That would have been two meatpies back then, that's that
person's lunch money in theoffice.
That would have been lunchmoney.
That would have been lunchmoney.
Cleo, thanks for sharing.
Public would have been thelunch money.
That would have been lunchmoney.
Cleo, thanks for sharing publicversus private on the Northern
Beaches.
Hope you guys enjoyed this showand have a beautiful day.

Speaker 2 (14:08):
Have a great day everyone.
Bye.

Speaker 1 (14:10):
See ya, bye-bye.
Thanks for watching.