Debt might be the most misunderstood tool in wealth creation. While most Australians see debt as something to eliminate, the wealthy understand it's something to structure strategically.
In this illuminating conversation with Vasco Duarte, a senior debt advisor with 28 years of industry experience, we explore the sophisticated approaches to debt management that separate ordinary investors from truly successful ones. Vasco breaks down how financial planning evolves through life stages – from getting your first foothold in property during your twenties, to maximizing borrowing capacity in your thirties, aggressively accumulating assets in your forties, and finally transitioning toward retirement planning in your fifties.
The discussion delves deep into crucial considerations rarely addressed in mainstream financial advice: how to effectively separate business assets from personal investments, protect family wealth when helping children enter the property market, and maintain liquidity for future opportunities. Vasco reveals that what truly distinguishes high-net-worth families isn't just their goals or vision – it's their execution capability and foresight to plan 5-10 years ahead, surrounding themselves with trusted experts who bring specialized knowledge to the table.
Perhaps most valuable is Vasco's perspective shift on what many borrowers experience as "mortgage prison." Rather than seeing lending limitations as constraints, he reframes them as potential opportunities through alternative lending sources – where slightly higher costs can be justified by the returns generated from new investment opportunities. Whether you're a business owner looking to de-risk your personal assets, a parent wanting to help your children without exposing your wealth, or simply someone seeking to optimize your financial structures, this episode provides rare insights into the strategies employed by Australia's most financially sophisticated families. Listen now to transform your approach to debt from a burden to a powerful wealth-building tool.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Guys, this morning is super interesting.
We're talking with Vasco Duante, a super, super senior debt
advisor.
So how to structure debt issomething that people really
don't know where to go to getgreat advice.
And we've got vasco on today.
(00:22):
Stay tuned, we're gonna blowyour mind.
Five super sharp questions.
(00:46):
I'm going to ask you Superquick questions, super quick
answers, then we'll get into it.
Vasco, how?
Speaker 2 (00:55):
long have you been lending for?
Thanks for the question, mark,and having me on today, billy,
super fast.
I've been doing it for 28 years.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Sorry, how long was that a cut out?
Speaker 2 (01:08):
28 years, 28 years, Wow Types of clients that you
love to look after, I guessanything between business owners
, high net wealth families.
I think that's where,potentially, I can create and
add the most value.
(01:28):
So, um, complexity and lookingat making it simple is probably
the biggest thing I can addvalue to you do it all over
australia yeah, um, I guess mynetwork has been all around
Australia.
As I was working at the previousbank, it was a national team,
(01:52):
so there is not a problem whereit would be between me flying or
digital era these days andgetting video calls not an issue
.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
All right, love it, billy over to you.
So thanks for coming on, vasco.
Um, we've got billy here aswell.
Let's talk structuring debt.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
Yeah, this is such a good topic.
So many clients you know arefinding finance often that the
biggest hurdle in their umjourney to buying another
property.
I guess you're seeing it rightthrough multi-generational
families as well parents helpingkids.
Other way around, people tryingto set themselves up for
(02:33):
retirement when does thepreparation start?
Is it in the 20s and 30s or doyou find it's in the 40s and 50s
, going into the second half?
Speaker 2 (02:48):
it's in the 40s and 50s, going into the second half.
Great question, billy.
I think it starts as you arelooking at your first home.
You know, being someone thatbought their home first home at
19, I think the experience thereis very simple just get in the
market, doesn't matter where itis, get in and get your first
deposit.
As you get into your 30s, youhave the maximum opportunity
where you're starting to get toa level where most of your
(03:10):
student debt's gone away.
You now have the ability toborrow and you've got 30, 35
years in front of you.
As you get into your 40s,you're starting to think about
wow, these debts now, at thepeak, I'm earning the most.
That's when you really startaccumulating assets and you go
hard um so like my perspective.
(03:31):
If you're 20, 30, 40 or 50,there's a stage for everything.
And when you get to your 50,you start thinking about I'm
retiring in 15 years.
How do I start digesting,divesting some of the the assets
?
Digesting, divesting some ofthe, the assets yeah, that's
(03:52):
like the, those engine, engineworkroom years of your life.
Yeah, I guess, I guess.
So you know, parents these dayshave to help their kids getting
into their first home so thattechnically, generally, they're
in their 50s and it's quiteimportant as you have kids I've
got kids is how do you positionto support your kids?
And a lot of confusion aroundgiving personal guarantees,
(04:12):
ability to.
I'm just going to give themcash.
There's, there's other waysthat you can do the same without
putting assets at risk in yourown personal situation, because
marriage is not easy regardless,as we all know, and and when
you're marrying someone, thatthing can turn very different.
So you structure things earlyfor your kids will give you a
(04:33):
lot of opportunity amazing.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
Mark.
So, vasco, when, when a client,when a client comes to you,
what's the most common questionyou're getting asked now as as a
sort of dead advisor, what'sthe what's the number one when
people ring up and go hey, vasco, what do they ask?
Speaker 2 (04:53):
yeah, um, I think I think the main thing obviously
htl private office is ultimatelyfor high net worth and business
owners.
So two typical questions wouldbe um.
One typical question is how doI separate my business from my
personal investments?
How do I de-risk myself?
Um, and obviously that firstthat with that question leads
(05:15):
into a lot of businesses givetheir personal guarantees in
their prime place residents assecurity de-risking.
That is quite important,separating them.
And and with that then followsthe next question is what is
ultimately the best structurethat you can get in the market
In price?
It is a conversation, but pricecan't be the sole driver,
(05:37):
because the sole driverultimately is ability to
separate those assets and stillbeing able to have liquidity, to
have opportunities, becausethose type of clients, when you
look at that, you want to haveliquidity and ability to look at
opportunities.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
So, Bas is this about ?
Are you finding de-risking, oris this about?
Speaker 2 (06:07):
maximum maximizing borrowing, or is it always both
come hand in hand?
They go hand in hand becausepeople can lend you money.
Um, the question is is thatultimately the best structure
for you?
So you think two, three stepsahead, not from today.
So if the conversation is abusiness owner is trying to sell
their business in 15 years timeor 10 years time, then
ultimately that that liquidityis equally as important.
(06:28):
Um, so it's both you thatthey're thinking of the future.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Sure, yeah, wow, and it's actually an interesting one
, because there's not really aplace to go for this.
So I guess this is and theseare individual people that are
really having to see it withlaser beam around the corner 5,
10, 15 years ahead they have toshare this information with you.
(07:01):
They've got to share thisinformation with their account
and they're going to share thisinformation with their lawyer
and their business.
You know people, you know whatthey're doing in their business
and have that ability to tostructure themselves with you in
a long-term fashion.
You wouldn't even think thathappens in the world, but I
guess that's pretty common withthe high wealth clients.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
I guess, if we look at the current value of real
estate in Australia and homeownership is really very
important and I think it'severyone's dream to have that.
I think we're now getting intoour 40s and what you thought was
a million dollar property isnow two or three.
But on the luxury side inAustralia, in Sydney, we're
(07:50):
looking at a $4 million asset.
If we look at the trajectory ofthat in the last 10 years, that
$4 million is going to be $10million, say, in 15 years.
So what is the goal of that $10million asset that you now have
?
How are you optimizing it andhow are you then dilating that
(08:11):
value at some point to createincome?
Speaker 1 (08:19):
Yeah, got it and I think I'll offer.
You mentioned the um.
We started, we talked, wetouched on mortgage prison.
So you do get calls fromclients that are like they've
got mortgages and they sort ofcan't really move to different
interest rates or differentstructures because they don't
stack up.
Their actual stuff that theyhave now doesn't stack up.
(08:42):
Are you seeing a lot of peoplein mortgage prison?
Speaker 2 (08:47):
I think mortgage prison talks in a way
potentially, the way that we'relooking at it is mortgage stress
potentially, or inability toborrow more.
I guess the reality coming outof a major is that ability to
borrow is there regardless.
There's three tiers of lendersthere's your main banks, there's
(09:08):
your second tier and thenultimately there's your private
credit, which is very big intoday's world as we are seeing.
I think the mortgage prison, Ithink that language these days
is one where your bank is notletting you go, so mortgage
brokers ultimately have theflexibility to look at the best
(09:29):
deal and structure for you.
I think you know the cost.
It's a conversation,potentially could be dearer, but
the return of your new asset orthat particular asset that
you're looking at, or gearingthat you're looking at, might be
a.
You know, have a yield of sixor seven.
So therefore paying an extra 50bps to one 1% in your next
(09:49):
lender is is an opportunity.
So that mortgage stressconversation traditionally a
mortgage prison turns into anopportunity.
What's the opportunity lookingat?
Speaker 3 (10:03):
that's I've got to ask.
The clients that you meet mustbe some amazing um family's
backgrounds.
What are they doing differentlyto the average family, and can
you take those tips and apply itto the everyday scenario?
Speaker 2 (10:21):
Yeah, I think you know I've been very fortunate of
the families and individualsI've looked after the last 28
years, you know, from businessowners to entrepreneurs and and
lucky enough to have strongrelationships with some of the
top brw within australia.
But I think that the main thingis that they they've got a goal
(10:42):
, they've got the vision, butexecution is technically what's
what's lacking, and thatexecution could be getting the
right advice, so getting gettingthem.
They get surrounded with peoplethat they trust but also have
the expertise, and that's verybig.
You know, I'm not an accountant, I'm not a lawyer, but I want
(11:03):
to have people beside me thatare very good in those fields.
And the same thing goes for adebt advisor or a business
advisor, your CFO, for example.
I think having people thatultimately have those expertise,
then they can execute and havethe opportunities.
(11:23):
So ability to get into.
The next opportunity they seeis around planning, so they do
plan.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
Yeah, and is planning that five, ten year ahead the
biggest thing that sets themapart?
Speaker 2 (11:41):
I guess you know, ideally the conversations I
bring to the table are aroundthat, billy, not necessarily
everyone's thinking that far,but the minute you touch on,
what are you thinking about withyour kids and what does
retirement look like and how doyou get ready for that?
(12:01):
How do you optimise some of thestructures available?
And it's not about avoiding tax, but how do you ensure they are
tax savvy in relation to whatthe next investment looks like?
I think they're very keen totalk about that.
100%, yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
That's the focus, fascinating.
And so what point do clientsreach out to you Like?
Do clients reach out to youLike, do they reach a personal
or a business level?
And they say now is the time weemploy someone for services
like that?
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Look, I think, like anything, the HDL private office
will service any of thefamily's needs.
So if the kids are looking atbuying their first home, we're
there.
If the kids want to get theirthe first home, we're there.
If the kids want to get theirfirst car, we're there.
I think, uh, the it's arelationship-based service, so
we're not there just for theshort term as a private office.
We're lewd.
It's not a family office, butwe ultimately work with families
(13:01):
that you know don't have thatin-house support, but we're
ongoing, having conversationswith all their ecosystem,
regardless.
If they're an accountant,they're a lawyer, we will be
there with them along the way.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
Yeah, fascinating.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
Mark, can you hear us ?
I can sorry, I've got a bit ofcrackle in the background.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
A bit of crackle.
Sorry about that.
Yeah, the line's a little bitcrackly.
Any finishing questions, Mark?
No, we can go on again, Pastor,because unfortunately I think
we had a bit of a bad line thismorning.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
But thank you so much .
There's so many questions I'vegot.
Thank you so much.
It's very, very interestinghearing what the people in the
town are doing, because I thinkon all levels, because I've
learned from that on all levelsI'm just thinking of you, these
(14:05):
guys and there are experts arecreating the world that's going
to hit what we're all up to.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
Billy, can you translate that?
Speaker 3 (14:15):
Yeah, no problem, that's Serbian to English Vasco.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Thank you so much for coming on this morning.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
It's great to get insight from someone that you
just don't meet every day, soI'm sure we're're gonna have
clients reaching out on the backof this, will flick them your
way and um, have a great day.
That.
That is the.
That is what the pros are doingfrom their 30s to 50s.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
You know amazing, amazing advice there thanks
billy, and Thanks Billy and Markappreciate it.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
Have a good day.
Have a good day, guys, takecare, thank you.
Guys, this morning is super interesting.
We're talking with Vasco Duante, a super, super senior debt
advisor.
So how to structure debt issomething that people really
don't know where to go to getgreat advice.
And we've got vasco on today.
(00:22):
Stay tuned, we're gonna blowyour mind.
Five super sharp questions.
(00:46):
I'm going to ask you Superquick questions, super quick
answers, then we'll get into it.
Vasco, how?
Speaker 2 (00:55):
long have you been lending for?
Thanks for the question, mark,and having me on today, billy,
super fast.
I've been doing it for 28 years.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Sorry, how long was that a cut out?
Speaker 2 (01:08):
28 years, 28 years, Wow Types of clients that you
love to look after, I guessanything between business owners
, high net wealth families.
I think that's where,potentially, I can create and
add the most value.
(01:28):
So, um, complexity and lookingat making it simple is probably
the biggest thing I can addvalue to you do it all over
australia yeah, um, I guess mynetwork has been all around
Australia.
As I was working at the previousbank, it was a national team,
(01:52):
so there is not a problem whereit would be between me flying or
digital era these days andgetting video calls not an issue
.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
All right, love it, billy over to you.
So thanks for coming on, vasco.
Um, we've got billy here aswell.
Let's talk structuring debt.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
Yeah, this is such a good topic.
So many clients you know arefinding finance often that the
biggest hurdle in their umjourney to buying another
property.
I guess you're seeing it rightthrough multi-generational
families as well parents helpingkids.
Other way around, people tryingto set themselves up for
(02:33):
retirement when does thepreparation start?
Is it in the 20s and 30s or doyou find it's in the 40s and 50s
, going into the second half?
Speaker 2 (02:48):
it's in the 40s and 50s, going into the second half.
Great question, billy.
I think it starts as you arelooking at your first home.
You know, being someone thatbought their home first home at
19, I think the experience thereis very simple just get in the
market, doesn't matter where itis, get in and get your first
deposit.
As you get into your 30s, youhave the maximum opportunity
where you're starting to get toa level where most of your
(03:10):
student debt's gone away.
You now have the ability toborrow and you've got 30, 35
years in front of you.
As you get into your 40s,you're starting to think about
wow, these debts now, at thepeak, I'm earning the most.
That's when you really startaccumulating assets and you go
hard um so like my perspective.
(03:31):
If you're 20, 30, 40 or 50,there's a stage for everything.
And when you get to your 50,you start thinking about I'm
retiring in 15 years.
How do I start digesting,divesting some of the the assets
?
Digesting, divesting some ofthe, the assets yeah, that's
(03:52):
like the, those engine, engineworkroom years of your life.
Yeah, I guess, I guess.
So you know, parents these dayshave to help their kids getting
into their first home so thattechnically, generally, they're
in their 50s and it's quiteimportant as you have kids I've
got kids is how do you positionto support your kids?
And a lot of confusion aroundgiving personal guarantees,
(04:12):
ability to.
I'm just going to give themcash.
There's, there's other waysthat you can do the same without
putting assets at risk in yourown personal situation, because
marriage is not easy regardless,as we all know, and and when
you're marrying someone, thatthing can turn very different.
So you structure things earlyfor your kids will give you a
(04:33):
lot of opportunity amazing.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
Mark.
So, vasco, when, when a client,when a client comes to you,
what's the most common questionyou're getting asked now as as a
sort of dead advisor, what'sthe what's the number one when
people ring up and go hey, vasco, what do they ask?
Speaker 2 (04:53):
yeah, um, I think I think the main thing obviously
htl private office is ultimatelyfor high net worth and business
owners.
So two typical questions wouldbe um.
One typical question is how doI separate my business from my
personal investments?
How do I de-risk myself?
Um, and obviously that firstthat with that question leads
(05:15):
into a lot of businesses givetheir personal guarantees in
their prime place residents assecurity de-risking.
That is quite important,separating them.
And and with that then followsthe next question is what is
ultimately the best structurethat you can get in the market
In price?
It is a conversation, but pricecan't be the sole driver,
(05:37):
because the sole driverultimately is ability to
separate those assets and stillbeing able to have liquidity, to
have opportunities, becausethose type of clients, when you
look at that, you want to haveliquidity and ability to look at
opportunities.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
So, Bas is this about ?
Are you finding de-risking, oris this about?
Speaker 2 (06:07):
maximum maximizing borrowing, or is it always both
come hand in hand?
They go hand in hand becausepeople can lend you money.
Um, the question is is thatultimately the best structure
for you?
So you think two, three stepsahead, not from today.
So if the conversation is abusiness owner is trying to sell
their business in 15 years timeor 10 years time, then
ultimately that that liquidityis equally as important.
(06:28):
Um, so it's both you thatthey're thinking of the future.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Sure, yeah, wow, and it's actually an interesting one
, because there's not really aplace to go for this.
So I guess this is and theseare individual people that are
really having to see it withlaser beam around the corner 5,
10, 15 years ahead they have toshare this information with you.
(07:01):
They've got to share thisinformation with their account
and they're going to share thisinformation with their lawyer
and their business.
You know people, you know whatthey're doing in their business
and have that ability to tostructure themselves with you in
a long-term fashion.
You wouldn't even think thathappens in the world, but I
guess that's pretty common withthe high wealth clients.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
I guess, if we look at the current value of real
estate in Australia and homeownership is really very
important and I think it'severyone's dream to have that.
I think we're now getting intoour 40s and what you thought was
a million dollar property isnow two or three.
But on the luxury side inAustralia, in Sydney, we're
(07:50):
looking at a $4 million asset.
If we look at the trajectory ofthat in the last 10 years, that
$4 million is going to be $10million, say, in 15 years.
So what is the goal of that $10million asset that you now have
?
How are you optimizing it andhow are you then dilating that
(08:11):
value at some point to createincome?
Speaker 1 (08:19):
Yeah, got it and I think I'll offer.
You mentioned the um.
We started, we talked, wetouched on mortgage prison.
So you do get calls fromclients that are like they've
got mortgages and they sort ofcan't really move to different
interest rates or differentstructures because they don't
stack up.
Their actual stuff that theyhave now doesn't stack up.
(08:42):
Are you seeing a lot of peoplein mortgage prison?
Speaker 2 (08:47):
I think mortgage prison talks in a way
potentially, the way that we'relooking at it is mortgage stress
potentially, or inability toborrow more.
I guess the reality coming outof a major is that ability to
borrow is there regardless.
There's three tiers of lendersthere's your main banks, there's
(09:08):
your second tier and thenultimately there's your private
credit, which is very big intoday's world as we are seeing.
I think the mortgage prison, Ithink that language these days
is one where your bank is notletting you go, so mortgage
brokers ultimately have theflexibility to look at the best
(09:29):
deal and structure for you.
I think you know the cost.
It's a conversation,potentially could be dearer, but
the return of your new asset orthat particular asset that
you're looking at, or gearingthat you're looking at, might be
a.
You know, have a yield of sixor seven.
So therefore paying an extra 50bps to one 1% in your next
(09:49):
lender is is an opportunity.
So that mortgage stressconversation traditionally a
mortgage prison turns into anopportunity.
What's the opportunity lookingat?
Speaker 3 (10:03):
that's I've got to ask.
The clients that you meet mustbe some amazing um family's
backgrounds.
What are they doing differentlyto the average family, and can
you take those tips and apply itto the everyday scenario?
Speaker 2 (10:21):
Yeah, I think you know I've been very fortunate of
the families and individualsI've looked after the last 28
years, you know, from businessowners to entrepreneurs and and
lucky enough to have strongrelationships with some of the
top brw within australia.
But I think that the main thingis that they they've got a goal
(10:42):
, they've got the vision, butexecution is technically what's
what's lacking, and thatexecution could be getting the
right advice, so getting gettingthem.
They get surrounded with peoplethat they trust but also have
the expertise, and that's verybig.
You know, I'm not an accountant, I'm not a lawyer, but I want
(11:03):
to have people beside me thatare very good in those fields.
And the same thing goes for adebt advisor or a business
advisor, your CFO, for example.
I think having people thatultimately have those expertise,
then they can execute and havethe opportunities.
(11:23):
So ability to get into.
The next opportunity they seeis around planning, so they do
plan.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
Yeah, and is planning that five, ten year ahead the
biggest thing that sets themapart?
Speaker 2 (11:41):
I guess you know, ideally the conversations I
bring to the table are aroundthat, billy, not necessarily
everyone's thinking that far,but the minute you touch on,
what are you thinking about withyour kids and what does
retirement look like and how doyou get ready for that?
(12:01):
How do you optimise some of thestructures available?
And it's not about avoiding tax, but how do you ensure they are
tax savvy in relation to whatthe next investment looks like?
I think they're very keen totalk about that.
100%, yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
That's the focus, fascinating.
And so what point do clientsreach out to you Like?
Do clients reach out to youLike, do they reach a personal
or a business level?
And they say now is the time weemploy someone for services
like that?
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Look, I think, like anything, the HDL private office
will service any of thefamily's needs.
So if the kids are looking atbuying their first home, we're
there.
If the kids want to get theirthe first home, we're there.
If the kids want to get theirfirst car, we're there.
I think, uh, the it's arelationship-based service, so
we're not there just for theshort term as a private office.
We're lewd.
It's not a family office, butwe ultimately work with families
(13:01):
that you know don't have thatin-house support, but we're
ongoing, having conversationswith all their ecosystem,
regardless.
If they're an accountant,they're a lawyer, we will be
there with them along the way.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
Yeah, fascinating.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
Mark, can you hear us ?
I can sorry, I've got a bit ofcrackle in the background.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
A bit of crackle.
Sorry about that.
Yeah, the line's a little bitcrackly.
Any finishing questions, Mark?
No, we can go on again, Pastor,because unfortunately I think
we had a bit of a bad line thismorning.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
But thank you so much .
There's so many questions I'vegot.
Thank you so much.
It's very, very interestinghearing what the people in the
town are doing, because I thinkon all levels, because I've
learned from that on all levelsI'm just thinking of you, these
(14:05):
guys and there are experts arecreating the world that's going
to hit what we're all up to.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
Billy, can you translate that?
Speaker 3 (14:15):
Yeah, no problem, that's Serbian to English Vasco.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Thank you so much for coming on this morning.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
It's great to get insight from someone that you
just don't meet every day, soI'm sure we're're gonna have
clients reaching out on the backof this, will flick them your
way and um, have a great day.
That.
That is the.
That is what the pros are doingfrom their 30s to 50s.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
You know amazing, amazing advice there thanks
billy, and Thanks Billy and Markappreciate it.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
Have a good day.
Have a good day, guys, takecare, thank you.
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I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
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