November 5, 2024 • 59 mins
What if you could finally free yourself from the chains of perfectionism and step into a life of authentic self-worth? Join Nika and Tonya Kay Herb as she shares her transformative journey to self-worth, sparked by a heartfelt family conversation. Gain profound insights into overcoming the pervasive issues of perfectionism and limiting beliefs.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Nika Lawrie (00:06):
Welcome to the Inspired with Nika Lawrie
podcast.
Welcome to the show.
I'm so grateful to have youhere today.
Tonya Kay Herb (00:19):
Thanks for having me.
I'm so excited to be here.
I can't wait to dive in.
Nika Lawrie (00:23):
I'm really excited to have you here.
Yeah, and just to dive in, Ithink the things we're going to
talk about today are so, soimportant, especially for women.
I know I've done a lot of workon myself in these areas and
doing that work has profoundlychanged my life, to the point
where I was probably reallystagnant and stuck in different
(00:45):
aspects of my life to feelinglike kind of like an unstoppable
powerhouse now.
And so we're going to talkabout perfectionism and limiting
beliefs and overthinking allkinds of stuff.
So I'm really excited to diveinto that.
But before we get into that,will you tell me a little bit
about your backstory?
Who are you, where'd you comefrom and how'd you get into this
work?
Tonya Kay Herb (01:04):
Oh my gosh, I love this part of the story,
right, so I really this work hasbeen part of my own journey.
That's really it.
And as far as location, I'mlocated in Boise, Idaho, and
I've been here.
I'm a native.
So I'm a native of the area andhave been here all my life, and
(01:26):
so we grew up in the country.
If you will, out in the middleof the sticks.
Nika Lawrie (01:33):
I grew up in the mountains outside of Albuquerque
, new Mexico, but it's very inthe sticks, very mountainous.
My closest neighbor was likefive miles away, so yeah.
Tonya Kay Herb (01:43):
Yes, that's kind of ours too.
When I was about 11, my parentsbought a piece of property and
it was a little further out thanwe'd already lived and so it
was about, I'd say, 20 minutesfrom getting to town.
We would call it going to town.
And when we first built thatproperty it was covered in
sagebrush.
And when we first built thatproperty it was covered in
(02:06):
sagebrush.
Oh wow.
And so we really, I guess you'dcall it pioneered that space.
And so I grew up kind of outthere, you know, just a little
small town, country girl, andthat's really it.
Part of me getting into thiswork is really how I grew up.
(02:26):
I had a great growing upBrother, dog parents, I mean the
perfect little Beaver Cleaverfamily and hardworking.
My parents were both in theschool districts and things like
that.
So you could see that that wasa very simple life and it was
(02:48):
just amazing.
And what I really started tounderstand as I got into my 50s
oh my gosh, I can't believe.
I just said that out loud, butI'm here and I'm owning it.
Yeah, own it.
It's great, it's a privilege.
Nika Lawrie (03:03):
Yes, I earned it.
It's great, it's a privilege.
Tonya Kay Herb (03:05):
Yes, I earned it .
And so what I really started tounderstand is that hardworking,
you know, keep your head down,put your big girl panties on and
let's just keep going, kind ofthing that gave me a lot of
resilience and work ethic andthat was amazing.
I thank my parents for that,and even just the surrounding
(03:27):
family.
And I got into this, before Ireally dove into this work, I
got into a space where I wasreally questioning who I was.
You know that, oh, who am I?
And you start overthinkingright.
Yep, oh who am I?
And you start overthinkingright.
And what I realized is as ayoung girl.
(03:47):
It's so different becausesometimes I hate even saying
this out loud, because somepeople really grew up with some
adversity and my growing up wasI was a daddy's girl, and so he
was so proud and mama's besthelper, yeah.
And so how that manifested intomy life is that as long as I
(04:12):
was a good girl, as long as Iwas doing the right things, as
long as I was thinking ahead ofeveryone else so that I could
anticipate their needs, then Iwas doing the right things.
Nika Lawrie (04:25):
Yeah, and then you were valued, you were loved,
right.
Tonya Kay Herb (04:29):
Yeah, that's how I operated and that's how I
learned to value myself, andwhat was interesting is that I
had that growing up and then,when I stepped out into the real
world as an adult, I keptlooking around for those people
that were going to say, wow,you're doing a great job or good
for you, or my cheerleader, andso I kept striving for that, to
(04:53):
hear those things, and what Irealized is that I was devaluing
myself, waiting for validationfrom others, myself waiting for
validation from others, and thatwas so big.
And I remember sitting with myparents not long ago and I was
(05:13):
just really kind of feeling blue.
I'd had a couple ofrelationships in the family that
weren't quite what I wanted andwhat I wanted let's really hone
in on that and I've got sometears kind of flowing and my dad
said wow, sissy, you're justgoing to have to suck it up.
(05:37):
And that hit me.
And my mom said it's just theway it is, You're just going to
have to move through it.
And the reason that hit me sohard is because that felt like I
was screaming from the insideout, going wait, wait, wait.
You mean I have to just acceptit and I can't do anything about
it.
Yeah, and that really was amoment for me where I went oh no
(06:03):
, I don't think so, and I had tostart diving deeper.
And that's really where thiswork started.
It was an aha moment.
Thank you, my parents.
You know, in my later years Idon't know if you call these
later years, but in this part ofmy life, yeah, I know it's a
(06:24):
huge when you have thoseprofound moments.
Nika Lawrie (06:29):
They can just be little, tiny things, but you're
like, oh, I get it now.
Just the door opens up and youcan see something different and
it's a whole new experience oflife by having those little
moments, those little shifts.
Tonya Kay Herb (06:43):
Yeah, it's almost like, just like you said,
a door opens and the sun comesout, and you're like, oh, and
then?
And then the things that starthappening after that, because
once you're aware of something,you can't be unaware again,
unless you can choose that.
But you're at that point you'rejust hiding, yeah, so, yeah,
(07:10):
that's, that's really where thework started.
Nika Lawrie (07:13):
So that um what led you to become like a life coach
and get into this career andstart helping people um really
identify and work through someof their issues.
Tonya Kay Herb (07:24):
Um, you know, I think I learned more from my
clients than this reallyidentify and work through some
of their issues.
You know, I think I learn morefrom my clients than this.
Right, that's always how itworks Every single day, right?
So you know, I was insidecorporate and what I found is
that every place I've ever beenwhether it's been for a job or a
nonprofit or what have you Ifind myself in a position of
(07:47):
leadership.
And maybe it's just leading aproject or a team or just an
idea.
I really started to understandthe responsibility that goes
with that oh, huge.
I started to understand theresponsibility that goes with
that yeah, because so huge.
(08:07):
I have, in fact, I did aworkshop yesterday on kind of
this and I believe thatleadership is about leading
yourself first, mm-hmm.
And it's not about the position, the title or any of those
things.
Yeah, it's really how you'reshowing up every single day.
And when you start to take thatinto account and you say, wow,
(08:31):
okay, huh, I'm here to make adifference.
Not just a difference, but amovement.
Right, to empower people.
And when I started understandingwhat empowerment was and
started sharing those outside ofmyself, right, instead of just
empowering myself, but learninghow to ask the right questions
(08:54):
or not the right questions I'mputting that in quotes.
But just ask more questions.
Be genuinely curious aboutpeople.
It changes things for them,because a lot of times people
don't feel seen, heard or valuedand they just need that.
And so I started doing thatinside of the spaces I was
already in and I recognized thatit really lit me up.
(09:20):
I gained so much energy fromsitting with someone and seeing
their aha moments or them go.
Oh, kind of like when my dadsaid, hey, sissy, you're just
going to have to suck it up.
But I'm like, wait, what?
Yeah, what Right, those momentsyou can literally see that
(09:40):
happen for people and to be onthat journey with them amazing.
But the thing is is that when Iwanted to do more of that, I
thought I didn't really seemyself leaving corporate.
I just thought, oh, I'm goingto just do this on the side for
friends and family and anybodythat needs it right.
And push came to shove at onepoint where I said, you know, I
want to step out of theleadership role and I really
(10:02):
want to just be with people.
I want to do more of that.
And then it became evident thatI needed to really just dive in
.
I don't even remember all ofthe steps or the aha moments
that happened, but I knew that Iwas on the right path.
It was a knowing.
Have you ever had anything likethat, where you just know?
Nika Lawrie (10:26):
Oh, absolutely.
There's a coaching group thatI'm part of.
It's a network that we all gettogether and meet and support
each other and stuff, and one ofthe sayings in there is live in
the knowing, and the idea isthat you follow what that
intuition, that gut feeling is,that you just you work towards
(10:49):
something that just feels right.
You can't explain it, it's just.
I don't know if it's like youknow, the universe giving you
information or whatever you know, god feeding it to you or
whatever it is you believe, butit's like you just have this
feeling and it's like this isthe right thing, this is the
path, and so, yeah, I definitelyknow what you're talking about
and I think it's huge.
(11:10):
I think a lot of people arereally disconnected from that in
their body, and working towardslearning how to listen to
yourself and how to feel thatfeeling of knowing is really,
really key to personaldevelopment as a whole.
Tonya Kay Herb (11:32):
Well, I think you just touched on something
that's really big and you'reright that all knowing you can't
explain it.
And where we get intooverthinking or perfectionism if
we're going to tie this inright here is that overthinking
and perfectionism is reallyaccepting external validation.
Is it the right thing?
(11:53):
Am I doing the right thing?
And you either put a post outnow you're counting the likes,
the comments or the what haveyou or you're sitting with
people, a coffee or dinner orwhat have you, and asking what
do you think about this, what doyou think about that?
Even though you have thatknowing inside, when you're
(12:16):
asking for that validation orwhat your thoughts are, there's
a difference between reallygetting someone's opinion on a
brainstorming session to how tomove your idea forward versus
having validation for it and thegroup that you're with.
I want to hear more about that.
Yes, I want to hear more aboutthat.
(12:38):
Tell me more about that.
Yeah, we could have anoff-episode whole conversation
about it.
Nika Lawrie (12:40):
It's phenomenal.
We could have an off episodewhole conversation about it.
It's phenomenal, yeah, great.
One of my favorite quotes orsaying is I'm paraphrasing here
because I'm going to totallymess it up, but Brene Brown
always talks about before we gobig, we go small.
And the idea is that if we havea big idea or we want to, you
(13:05):
know, make a move in ourbusiness or follow a dream or
whatever it is right, the bigpicture thing we need to go
small first and the idea is thatwe go into ourselves and we
listen to what our intuition istelling us, what our gut is
telling us.
You know, people will call itget the download from the
universe or something right, andit's like that meditation
(13:26):
moment where you just close outthe world and you just get quiet
and then you'll get thoseanswers.
You'll get the guidance thatyou really want of what's going
to feel right and it'll lead youto that knowing point and I've
always loved that.
I've used that as a big tool inmy life as I've moved forward
building my business and doingother things.
Tonya Kay Herb (13:47):
I think that that's such an important thing
to bring forward at this pointis just is really just kind of
quieting the noise, yeah Right,and sitting with ourselves and
just scanning your body for likefrom your toe.
You know how does it feel.
What am I?
Your body for like from yourtoe?
You know how does it feel.
What am I, what's going on,what are those things in my head
(14:09):
?
Yeah, so big that's, that's agreat tie in.
Nika Lawrie (14:10):
Yeah.
So I want to ask you, let's getinto the perfectionism and
overthinking.
And then I really want to talkabout limiting beliefs too,
because I know I've struggled alittle bit with perfectionism
over my life.
Overthinking is a huge thingand limiting beliefs is like the
biggest factor that I'vestruggled a little bit with
perfectionism over my life,overthinking is a huge thing and
limiting beliefs is like thebiggest factor that I've
personally had.
I have a ton of female friends,female entrepreneurs, that I
(14:35):
see fall into one of these threecategories as well, and so I
want to kind of dive into kindof getting your view on each of
those topics and then some ofthe suggestions you might have
for helping people kind ofidentify, maybe, what the
limiting belief is, or you knowstrategies to kind of overcome
them.
Is there a specific one thatyou like the best, whether
(14:59):
perfectionism, limiting beliefsor overthinking that you'd want
to start with, or do you want tojust lump them together?
Tonya Kay Herb (15:04):
Let's just dive in, okay, because I think they
all, they all kind of intertwine.
Yeah, they're all dating.
It's like this dating circle.
Nika Lawrie (15:12):
I think it's funny, though, because you think about
each one and ultimately theycome down to one factor, maybe
two factors, and it's beingaccepted and feeling loved.
I think, are the two bigproponents that go into both of
them.
Yes, let's start withperfectionism, because I see a
(15:32):
lot of people struggling withthis.
They want to look perfect, theywant to get it all right.
So how do we really start toidentify if we are
perfectionists and maybe don'tknow?
And then what are a coupleideas that you have to help kind
of overcome this issue?
Tonya Kay Herb (15:49):
Oh, my gosh perfectionism.
So right, and I could talkabout it because I find myself
in.
Even though I help people getout of it, right, the reason I'm
really good at helping peopleget out of it is because I
struggle with it myself.
Right, that's how it all goes.
Nika Lawrie (16:10):
Yeah, I think every coach becomes a coach, whether
it's a health coach or lifecoach or business coach, because
they've struggled with itthemselves and they want to help
other people, not struggle.
Yeah, exactly, yeah.
Tonya Kay Herb (16:24):
So you know, I think that, okay, there are a
couple of different components,and I think that one of the
first ones is is that you findyourself not taking action or
procrastinating because you'rewaiting for the right moment.
It'll be, I'll be ready whenright, or once I do X, y, z,
(16:49):
I'll be ready.
Yeah, or I'm going to do this,this and this, and then I'll be
ready.
Or after I get through this,this, this and this, and then
I'll be ready.
Or after I get through this,the current survival mode that
I'm in right, then I'll be ready.
That's one way.
The other thing is and this isthe one that I get stuck in is,
(17:10):
especially as a solopreneur, Iwill put together a new package
of offerings or even a landingpage for someone to go to, and I
tweak it 498 times right.
And even though the firstversion looks great, I'm like,
(17:33):
okay, well, is the verbiage justright.
Instead of putting it out therelooks great, I'm like, okay,
well, is the verbiage just right.
And instead of putting it outthere and getting feedback or no
feedback, hey, guess what?
No feedback is feedback.
Yeah, right, that's another wayThinking about oh, did I turn
the coffee pot off?
Did I, whoa?
(17:54):
Did I shut that door?
Is the iron still on Some ofthose things, right?
And I don't know that those tiein necessarily to perfectionism,
but perfectionism andoverthinking, kind of you know,
are one foot on one side of theline and one foot on the other
side of the line.
You're still over the line.
Yeah, yeah, you know what I'msaying.
Yeah, know what I'm saying.
And then here's the one andthis is what I find with people
(18:18):
that are top producers orrunning small teams, before they
move into the space where theyhave to let things go, they're
overwhelmed with every teammember that they add, because
now they think they have to stayahead of them, and the idea is
(18:45):
that that team member is addingvalue because they're there to
take things off your plate.
So here's news for everybodyyou have to learn to delegate
and let go.
And if they do it differentlythan you do, you can learn from
that.
Just because you've done itthis way all this time doesn't
mean it's the only way to get tothe finish line, yeah.
So those are places that youcan recognize and here's how you
(19:09):
move past it.
Awareness we talked about this afew minutes ago.
Right, like once, you're aware,you can't be unaware again and
so really just going okay, I amaware that I do these things,
and so the awareness is one.
And then number two is make adecision to take one step, tiny
(19:33):
step, just one.
One step, tiny step, just one.
It doesn't matter if you thinkit's the right direction, but
you have to move into adirection, because it shifts
energy, it shifts all that stufffrom the universe and it just
starts to bring all of thosethings forward.
And so, every step, just aware,make a decision, take the step.
(19:56):
Yeah, that's really for me,that's how I do it.
Yeah, that's how I coach myclients to do it.
We're going to take one step.
Nika Lawrie (20:10):
Doesn't have to be the perfect step, I think, for
me.
When I started, I went througha very traumatic couple of years
in my life.
I had a lot of big T traumashappen and coming through that.
On the other side, I felt verylost in what my identity was.
I had an idea of what I wantedto do and who I wanted to be.
(20:32):
I had this idea of this companythat I wanted to build, but I
was really struggling with howdo I do it, how do I package it
all together?
How do I make it look like whatI want it to look like?
And what I found was I waslooping in these circles of
overthinking and trying to getit.
(20:53):
I don't even know if it waslike trying to get it perfect,
but it was trying to get it goodenough that I felt like I
wasn't going to be embarrassedby sharing it.
And what I found that you know,going through that cycle of
looping and looping and loopingwas I was literally going
nowhere.
It was literally, you know, andit took a couple years of me
(21:14):
looping, of doing basically thesame issues over and over and
not making any progress, and itwasn't until I really started to
deep dive into what my limitingbeliefs were and reframing what
those beliefs were.
That's reframing is whatallowed me to break out of that
(21:35):
overthinking perfectionism cycle, mm-hmm.
And the biggest factor thatcame from changing those
limiting beliefs was my abilityto disconnect from the outcome
of whatever it was I wascreating.
So an example would be would be.
(22:03):
So I can give an example.
So I recently applied for a VC,like a venture capitalist
program where you learndifferent techniques and you get
investment in those kinds ofthings and thousands and
thousands and thousands ofpeople apply for it and you can
apply every couple of months.
And I did my first application.
It was like a random one theydid, and so it was rushed and so
I only had like two days toapply and I did the very best I
(22:23):
could filling out theapplication and getting it all
in.
Well, I wasn't accepted and forme, like if you'd asked me a
couple years ago, that wouldhave devastated me, that would
have told me that I wasn't goodenough, I wasn't worthy enough,
my idea wasn't good enough.
I you know this must be a badidea.
I'm going to fail, right,that's where I would have.
But, coming through, workingthrough all these issues, I
(22:46):
received the decline email andmy response was like no, I'll
reply, I'll reapply in a fewmonths and I've got a bunch of
other funding ideas like to workon.
So it literally was like okay,whatever, and I just moved on
with my day and and I guess thereason I'm telling the story is
because I want the listeners tounderstand that working on these
specific issues will completelychange how you respond
(23:12):
emotionally to basicallyeverything in your life 100%.
Tonya Kay Herb (23:17):
Yeah, that is so beautiful.
Nika Lawrie (23:19):
Oh, thank you.
Tonya Kay Herb (23:25):
You know, when you first started talking about
it, I was thinking, oh, thelimiting.
The coach and me put my hat onand I was like, oh, the limiting
beliefs are coming up here,right, and for you to walk
through that and for thelisteners to be able to hear
your story so beautifully andeloquently stated that it's easy
(23:46):
for people to understand andtie to that.
Yeah, oh, she's been there too,right?
Yeah, yeah, I was speaking.
I'm on a text thread and I wentto an event last night and it's
put on by one of the localbusinesses here and it's Woman
of the Year and it's been goingon for 19 years and there were
(24:09):
160 applicants to this, yeah,and I had the honor of being
nominated.
Oh, congratulations, thank you.
And so I was nominated for thisand I was in shock, first of
all because I didn't have anyidea who had nominated me, and I
went through a process similarto yours where I was like, oh,
(24:31):
wow, okay, and I'm going to putmy application in and and I'm
gonna send it through all thestuff and and wow, I mean, I was
just shocked and I didn't getit either.
I was like, oh, I didn't makethe top 50 and and.
But I was invited last night tothe gala, uh, because one of my
(24:52):
friends made it through, and Iwas like, wow, and an older
version of me an earlier versionwas very much would have been I
don't belong in this room.
These women are amazing, they'reaccomplishments, they're I
(25:12):
don't even have all the words.
I was just so overwhelmed withwow, just wow, do I really
belong here?
I recognized that that wouldhave been an earlier version of
me and as I walked in, I waslike, heck, yes, I'm in the
right room because I'm in thepresence of this greatness and I
(25:35):
get to talk to these women andfind out what drives them, what
things they've overcome and whatwork have they done, similar to
yours and mine, right?
What have they done to overcomeand get through some of those
limiting beliefs, to push thatperfectionism aside and move
through and recognize thoseoverthinking loops that keep you
(25:59):
stuck?
And so I walked away and I wassharing on this text thread this
morning that very story of howincredibly grateful I am to be
in walking this journey at thistime in my life with everyone
that comes into it, becauseeveryone is a gift.
(26:20):
Whether we connect deeply ornot, there's so much that we can
learn and share, right, insteadof just trying to take from
everyone, how can we share ourgifts?
Nika Lawrie (26:36):
Yeah, I mean I couldn't agree with you more on
the sharing.
I think for me the mostprofound moments of my life have
been when I've donecollaborations or when
somebody's helped me with onething and so I help them with
something else, and that backand forth rapport is what's
(26:56):
lifted both of us up and movedboth of us forward.
When it's just that one youknow, give and take kind of
thing, it's kind of holding bothpeople down really, because the
person giving isn't receivingwhat they need to lift up and
the person taking isn'tnecessarily growing or learning
(27:17):
or expanding either, they'rejust receiving, and so it holds
both parties back.
Tonya Kay Herb (27:24):
Well said.
Yes, thank you.
I 100, 100%, I agree, I agree.
Nika Lawrie (27:30):
So okay, so we've talked about like how you know
life-changing this work can be.
We've talked about like how youknow life-changing this work
can be.
Can you give us some reallyclear strategies on how do we
start to identify, maybe, whenwe have some limiting beliefs,
how do we even know that they'relimiting beliefs and how can we
start to reframe them or shiftthe story that we're telling in
(27:53):
our minds?
Tonya Kay Herb (27:55):
Okay, so limiting beliefs, if I can kind
of just sum it up a little bit,it really is questioning when
you're saying, oh, I can't.
Well, let's just start withthis one thing, and this may
help us get to that limitingbelief, if we can just go down
(28:17):
this rabbit hole for a second.
So I promise to go in and thenout.
Nika Lawrie (28:21):
You're good Go down the hole, go in.
Tonya Kay Herb (28:23):
Okay.
So our brains are like thismagical supercomputer and what
happens is that our brainbelieves everything we tell it,
good or bad, yeah, right.
So that's a neural plasticity,right.
(28:44):
And so all those neurons thatfire together, wire together.
So if you have something that'sgoing on and you believe it to
be one way, then it absolutelyis going to be that way.
Limiting beliefs gets stuckthere.
But when we go, wait, why do Ibelieve that?
Why, well, because that's theway it's always been done.
(29:10):
Or well, that was how I wastaught, that was how I was
raised.
I hear that a lot.
That was how I was raised, yeah, yeah.
And or you've been in a groupsetting and someone starts
yapping and I say yap, becausethey're gossiping or talking
(29:30):
about someone else, and youdon't agree, but you don't say
anything.
So now you all of a suddenunderstand judgment, right.
So we limit ourselves tobelieving what's going on around
us or what we've been told ortaught, instead of questioning
(29:50):
and saying why do I believe that?
Where did that come from?
Why do I believe that, wheredid that come from?
You could sometimes go back tothose places in your life and
recognize where it came from Ifyou start with being good enough
, right, or wanting validation,or I'll be ready when you can
(30:13):
actually trace that almost allthe time back to a childhood
space, almost always, yeah,almost always.
And when you go back and you say, huh, let's see, because of
this, there was this.
I'll give you an example.
So, um, in my own life, uh, my,uh, my brother was a very sick
(30:39):
little one and so that mama'sbest helper that was me, right,
and so that limiting belief thatwe talked about in the very
beginning of if I can anticipateneeds, so that, and my mom was
such an amazing and giving momstill is right, but I just
(31:03):
wanted to be her best helper.
That's how I received love,right?
Yeah, so when I bring thatforward, I hold on.
I just went down the rabbithole.
Everybody follow me, right?
So if I go back to those spaceswhen my brother was young,
really young, I can see where Iwas helping with his meds, or I
(31:26):
was helping take care of him, orI was making sure that mama
didn't have to do extra pickingup after me, right, those things
.
So if you bring it forward totoday, I've already worked
through that, but there was aperiod of time where I hadn't, I
couldn't figure out whyeverybody didn't just know what
(31:47):
they needed to do next.
Why didn't other people justanticipate that there was going
to be this need or that need?
Why didn't they just act on it?
And I was really very judgmentalfor a long period of time where
I'm like why can't you peoplejust figure it out, why can't
you see it?
Yeah, and I know I sound like ajerk right now, but I really
was in that space and I had notolerance for it and I was kind
(32:10):
of judgy.
But when I stepped back and Iwent but why do I believe that?
Outthink or anticipate everyoneelse?
And when I started realizingthat it came from my childhood,
I went oh, but because I'moverthinking, anticipating and
(32:38):
carrying this limiting belief,I'm actually disempowering
others to step into theirgreatness.
Nika Lawrie (32:55):
I hope everybody followed me through that journey
learn and really succeed inmaybe a difficult moment or a
moment where there's a lot ofcollaboration and work that
needs to be done.
It's allowing space for thosepeople to shine as well, opposed
to you just anticipatingeverything and trying to fill
(33:17):
all of those gaps, not allowingother people to fill those gaps
and shine themselves.
Does that make sense?
Tonya Kay Herb (33:23):
100%, and a lot of times we stay in that space
and we go well, if I don't do it, no one else will, because
you've trained everyone thatyou're always going to show up,
no matter what.
They don't have to show up in aspace with you because you're
always going to outshineeverybody and and they don't
(33:46):
even have a space to share withyou.
And so yeah, go ahead, go ahead.
I think that that when wereally understand that we've
trained people how to behave ortreat us, and that it's up to us
to shift the way we operate sothat others have space to
(34:06):
collaborate and be together withus, it changes everything.
Nika Lawrie (34:10):
Yeah, yeah, I think that's so huge for especially
mothers to learn.
Mothers fill that role all thetime where we have to anticipate
everybody's needs.
We have to ensure that the houseis running functionally.
We have to ensure that thehouse is running functionally.
We have to ensure that there'sgroceries and lunches are packed
and whatever right, Like allthe doctor's appointments are
scheduled and people are gettingthere on time.
(34:31):
And there's so much pressureand expectation for the mother
to manage all of that and so sherises to that level but with
that comes burnout andexhaustion and anger and
resentment and the issue, likeyou said, is that we've trained
our family to believe that wewill fill all those spaces
(34:54):
because we have in the past andit's really key to have those
conversations with familymembers that shift the
responsibility more evenlyacross different members of the
family.
Tonya Kay Herb (35:07):
The other thing I want to bring forward is that
it's not just with your family.
You do it at work too.
Yeah, so true, you do it insideyour businesses.
You do it inside right, so noone has to participate.
So when we talked about, when Italked earlier about not being
able to delegate, this is partof understanding that right.
(35:40):
It's learning to let go ofthose things and let is safe for
them to fail forward faster,because if they don't feel like
they can fail or they're goingto be judged or ridiculed or
corrected, sometimes thosedefense mechanisms come up.
What happens is that it takescourage to fail, and so, in
(36:06):
order to do that, you have toprovide let me see if I can say
it provide a safe space, right?
Yeah, yeah.
Nika Lawrie (36:16):
This is an important conversation.
I think it's huge.
I know I've talked to somewomen friends of mine about, you
know, different struggles we'vehad.
You know, managing householdsor with our husbands and things
like that.
And one of the pieces thatwe've struggled with is having
to quote unquote train ourhusbands to do different things.
(36:37):
Right.
And you know we come to it like, well, they're grown adults,
they shouldn't have to betrained.
And you know we come to it like, well, they're grown adults,
they shouldn't have to betrained.
But the reality is is if youhave expectations of different
things that you want to havehappen.
I'll give you an example in myhousehold.
So I'm very particular aboutthe groceries we buy.
I'm very particular about thetypes of foods, the brands we
(37:06):
buy, about organic versusnon-organic and what products
come in the house.
And my husband didn't come fromthat same world and so he helps
, he's amazing around the houseand does a lot of things.
But I've had to have manyconversations with him about,
you know, these are the organicproducts that we buy and these
are the brands that we buy forxyz or whatever.
And so when he does the groceryshopping, um, he now knows to
(37:27):
get those products.
But had I not been willing tohave those conversation with him
, my expectations wouldn't havebeen met.
And then, um, you know, therewould have been that struggle of
him not doing what I wanted tohave done or the types of
groceries.
I'm kind of going down a rabbithole too, but the idea is being
(37:49):
willing to provide theinformation and support the
people and train the people todo whatever it is that you want
to have done so that you can letgo of, you can delegate those
items and let go of them.
Tonya Kay Herb (38:03):
I guess, if that makes sense, let go.
Oh my gosh, let go.
I actually have let go tattooedon my arm, do you?
Yeah, yes, because I need thatreminder.
You have to let go, that's sobig, and I think you bring
something forward too.
Is you know, we're not mindreaders.
Nika Lawrie (38:23):
Yeah, and neither is anybody else.
Tonya Kay Herb (38:25):
We have to be comfortable sharing why
something matters to us and why,and not from a space where we
say, well, I want you to hear myopinion, but from a space where
it's a conversation whereyou're saying this is what
matters to me and why, and Iwant to understand how you
(38:48):
understand this scenario orsituation for our family and
what's important to you aboutthe things that we bring into
our home.
And can we have thisconversation?
Because it's not about justdictating or delegating and just
throwing it out and just goLetting people understand the
(39:09):
why behind it, and because weall have a different element
that we tie into each story oreach thing that we're talking
about, absolutely.
Nika Lawrie (39:20):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Talking about Absolutely yeah,yeah, yeah.
So let's get back to a coupleof the resources or tools that
you have.
Can you give me like two toolsthat you regularly use with your
clients to help them workthrough some of these issues?
How do we start to overcomethese struggles?
Tonya Kay Herb (39:40):
How do we start to overcome these struggles.
So I use a concept that helpscenter and align you us, that
help us mitigate theoverthinking, the perfectionism,
those limiting beliefs, and itreally is work right, it is
(40:05):
doing some of the work.
But I use an acronym that helpsus redefine how we can show up
in the world, and it is calledthe bike concept.
And, for those of you justlistening, there's a bike on the
wall behind me, so it's therefor a purpose.
Nika Lawrie (40:20):
But it's a reminder .
Tonya Kay Herb (40:30):
I have a big story behind that, but I want to
get into the concept itself andhow it helps us, because we
talk a lot about authenticity,right, we hear just be you, and
people don't understand how todo that.
Well, I don't even know who Iam.
How do I do that, right?
Yeah, that's a big chunk of Idon't even know who I am.
Nika Lawrie (40:44):
How do I do that Right?
Yeah, that's a big chunk ofwhat I was going to ask you
about too, so keep going, yes.
Tonya Kay Herb (40:49):
Okay, so the acronym is BIKE, b-i-k-e, right,
so the B stands for B-U.
And how we do that is we stopapologizing for who we are,
mm-hmm.
And how we do that is we stopapologizing for who we are, we
stop filtering who we are.
Because you and I have talkedabout this a little bit we think
(41:13):
that we should show up incertain scenarios based on what
we assume people's expectationsare.
Yeah, and that leaves usfeeling less than right Because
we don't know how we should showup.
So that's where the anxietycomes in.
How should I show up?
How should I?
You know, what do they expectfrom me?
(41:35):
But when we let go of thoseexpectations and we've been
invited to a space because ofwho we are, because we have
something to offer and it's agift who we are and how we show
up is a gift.
So there's a difference betweenfitting in and belonging.
And when we're trying to fit insomewhere, we filter how we
(42:03):
show up.
I'm kind of like a chameleon oh, I like that too.
Or if I wear X, y, z, thenthey're going to like me.
Or if I've accomplished A, b, c, then they're going to like me.
That fitting in always leavesus feeling less than, but when
we truly belong somewhere.
We're accepted for who we are,as we are, but we have to stop
(42:26):
filtering how we show up andstart showing and sharing some
of those unique, quirky, funny,silly passions that we have.
Right, I mean some of thosethings.
And you'd be surprised, whenyou start sharing some of your
quirks, how it just relaxes thewhole writing out what your
(42:51):
three to five core values arethat matter to you.
Is it family, is itspirituality, is it health, is
(43:12):
it whatever it is?
And you identify those andeverything that you live for
filters through those corevalues.
Filters through those corevalues.
And when you start to honeyourself that way and show up
with that on your sleeve versusall of the expectations, that
changes everything.
Yeah, because the relationshipsthat you have will be more
(43:38):
dynamic, more diverse, right,and it'll also start to filter
out those fake relationships.
Yeah, right, you'll start tosee that.
So the I and this one I createdbecause I'm an introvert.
(43:58):
I'm an introvert and so whatthat means is that I spend
energy when I'm with a group ofpeople.
Extroverts gain energy whenthey're with a group of people.
So I can be in a room filledwith people and feel all the
(44:19):
energy for a month for that timewhile I'm with them, but when I
leave, feel all the energy fora month for that time while I'm
with them, but when I leave, Ineed to regroup, so that
introvert side of me, okay, sothe I stands for insight.
So what happens for me and Idon't know if this happens for
you, but when I go into a newsituation or I'm networking or I
meet someone new for the firsttime, sometimes my head starts
(44:41):
spinning.
What if they don't like me?
What if we don't connect?
What if I see something stupidor that they judge me for All of
that?
What if stuff right, what you dois you shift gears.
There you go, shift the gearson your bike and you look for
insight.
(45:01):
And so now you're bringinggenuine curiosity to the table
and you're saying, okay, I'mgoing to let go of all that, and
what I really want to know is Iwant to look for insight.
What insight can I gain here?
What insight can I take away orlearn about you?
What will I learn about myselfin our conversation?
What will I learn about myselfin our conversation?
(45:22):
What will I learn that I didn'tknow before?
So now you're being more of whoyou are meant to be.
You're looking for insight,that genuine curiosity, and
it'll be surprising how manymore questions, inquisitive
(45:43):
questions.
You ask someone because nowyou're looking for insight and,
oh, tell me more about that.
And oh, that's interesting I'venever even thought about that
right.
It changes the line ofquestioning, so the k stands for
kindness, sounds simple, right.
Nika Lawrie (45:57):
I love it because that's my probably top value.
Tonya Kay Herb (46:00):
Okay.
So we're not talking aboutniceties or politeness or
manners.
We're talking about genuinelybeing kind, because the
neuroscience behind kindnessEmory University did a study and
they found that when you sharekindness with another, your
(46:21):
brain's pleasure reward centerlights up, as if you're the
receiver and not the giver.
Well, that's a dopamine hit,and remember when I said before
that that neuroplasticity ofyour brain believes everything
you tell it.
Well, it's because of thefeelings in your body that are
coming up right.
So your brain doesn't know anydifferent, because kindness
(46:42):
feels good no matter what,whether you're giving or
receiving.
So now you're being more ofyourself, right, you've lined up
with those core values.
You're looking for insight.
You're genuinely curious aboutother people and what makes them
tick.
You're sharing kindness fromyour core, which feels good, and
(47:03):
the E stands for engage.
I don't know about you, butI've sat across many coffee
meetings, been in group meetingsor at dinner and someone across
the table is scrolling.
Yeah, it's just rude, it is,it's just rude.
It's just rude.
It's just rude, it's just rude.
Nika Lawrie (47:21):
It's just rude.
It's just rude, it's just rude.
Tonya Kay Herb (47:22):
It's just rude, it is.
It leaves you feeling sounengaged, so disconnected,
right?
Yeah, so the thing is is thatwhen you engage with someone and
you put those devices downbecause we're starving for
connection, and then it changeseverything like so bernie brown,
(47:44):
you talked about bernie brownearlier.
She also has a quote that saysconnection is the energy that's
exchanged between people whenthey feel seen, heard and valued
.
That's big so, and you have adeeper connection.
Engagement with someone whenyou're being more of yourself,
(48:07):
when you're genuinely curious,sharing kindness and just being
present in that moment.
That is the tool that I use andthat helps us stop and think
about how we're going to show up, because when we think about,
when we put that forward,overthinking and perfectionism
(48:27):
seem to come down a few notches.
It doesn't mean they'recompletely gone.
What it means is that now wehave room to grow and we can
identify and acknowledge whereoverthinking and perfectionism
show up, because they'repatterns for us.
So the only way to eliminate apattern is to recognize it and
work on it.
(48:47):
Yeah, Absolutely.
Nika Lawrie (48:51):
Yeah, one of my, one of the quotes that's always
stuck in my head.
I don't know if I wouldn't callit one of my favorites, but I
remember hearing so.
Jay Shetty was on Lewis Howe'spodcast and this was, I don't
know, probably seven or eightyears ago now.
It's been a long time and Idon't know who actually says the
quote.
But Jay talks about how I am,who I think you think I am.
(49:15):
That's the identity piece,right.
And so we're showing up as ifwe're trying to be the person
that we think you think we areopposed, can remove all of that
inauthentic, materialistic kindof pieces of ourselves and just
(49:51):
be ourselves.
That's when that confidencestarts to come out.
That's when we start to pushdown the worries and fears that
cause the overthinking andperfectionism loop loops, right,
and then we can start to reallymove forward with our lives and
things that we want to do,confidently and, um, with some
(50:12):
resilience as well.
Tonya Kay Herb (50:14):
I love that yes, yeah, um, that you know there
are two.
There are a couple of people inmy life that I love, that I
want to be when I grow up.
And here's why and you touchedon it a little bit about we show
(50:38):
up as who we think we'reexpected to be Blah, blah, blah
up as who we think we'reexpected to be, and if we can go
down that rabbit hole for justa moment and you can tell when
people are really just kind offaking it till you make it right
.
Yeah, and not really genuinelythere in the moment.
And these two people show up inmy life because I watch them.
(51:06):
They're great networkers andwhat makes them great networkers
?
And not everybody wants tonetwork.
But here's what is great aboutthem.
It doesn't matter who walksinto their space or their
purview, it's never about them.
They're always so genuinelycurious.
It's about their greeting.
(51:27):
Have you ever met somebodywhere, every time you see them,
their greeting isn't just hey,how are you?
It's hey, I was, just how areyou, and that energy that they
bring to that greeting.
I've really started to hone inon that and I've watched them in
(51:48):
rooms of people and theconversation is so engaging and
enlightening and it just carries.
And I think that there's a lotto be said for how we greet
others, yeah, and how we justput out that little bit of
(52:09):
effort.
That feels good, because itfeels good not only for them,
for the other person you'remeeting, but also for you,
because you're actually puttingforward that energy.
Nika Lawrie (52:21):
Yeah, yeah, definitely you, because you're
actually putting forward thatenergy.
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
Well, tanya, I have one morequestion for you, but before I
get to the final question, Iwant to.
Well, I guess I have twoquestions, but first I just want
to thank you for the workyou're doing.
I think it's really, reallyimportant.
I can't preface enough of howmuch doing this work for myself
(52:43):
has changed my life, and so Ireally hope listeners find you,
connect with you, do the workthemselves, because it's so
life-changing, and I just wantto see as many people you know
grow and expand and have these,you know, joy-filled, confident
lives in front of them.
So thank you for the workyou're doing.
(53:05):
I really appreciate it, andthank you for the time that
you're here and sharing all yourexpertise with us too.
It's really special and I'mgrateful for it.
Tonya Kay Herb (53:13):
So thank you it has been an absolute treat and I
love the work that you do.
It's so important to get all ofthis information out to people
and just have a space to shareit Absolutely.
Nika Lawrie (53:27):
Yeah, it's so needed and I just want to
support as many people aspossible in the world to heal
and feel good and live happy,joyful lives.
So my, I guess, my, last twoquestions where can the audience
actually connect with you?
Where can they find you?
And I'll be sure to link toeverything in the show notes too
, but how can they find you?
Tonya Kay Herb (53:46):
Yes, and so I'm on Instagram as Tanya K Herb and
you can find me there, or onFacebook.
I'm on LinkedIn as well and Ihave a website, tanyakco C-O,
and you can reach me there, andin the show notes there will be
(54:07):
linked to my link tree thatthere are some free downloads in
there, that kind of help youget through some of those core
values or even scoring whereyou're at in your life,
different segments of your lifeor there's also a link inside
that link tree that offers yourlisteners a few minutes with me
(54:33):
If they really want to chat fora few moments or have a story to
share.
I love to hear from people.
I absolutely do.
Nika Lawrie (54:40):
Love that.
Yeah, I'll be sure to link allthat in the show notes,
definitely make it easy aspossible, thank you.
So, tanya, my last question foryou today is something I ask
all my guests but what issomething that you've either
learned or experienced thatinspired you, that you'd like to
share with others?
Tonya Kay Herb (55:07):
something that I've learned.
Wow, you know, I want to goback to the space of really just
learning to slow down and spendjust a few minutes with myself
every morning.
And the reason I do that it'seven before I get out of bed.
And the reason I do that it'seven before I get out of bed.
I recognize that I'm not goingto feel the same way every
single day, and so I do a scanwhen I wake up in the morning,
(55:30):
from my toes to my head actually, and how am I really feeling
this morning?
And some mornings I'm filledwith gratitude, and some
mornings I may be heavy with athought, and I recognize what
those are and I accept it andwork through it.
And the reason I do that isbecause now, when I go out to
(55:51):
the day and I'm meeting withother people, I sometimes feel
other people's energy andsometimes it weighs heavy on me.
And I can recognize thatbecause I tapped into my energy
that morning that if someoneelse's energy is heavy or even
sad, I can feel that and I canreally just recognize that
(56:13):
that's not my energy.
But what I do is I say tomyself oh, that's not mine, but
I'm going to bless it with loveand I'm going to send it back to
them, and that's exactly what Ido.
It's been the biggest gamechanger for me in my life to
recognize what my energy is andwhat's not my energy, and be
(56:35):
able to love it and send it back.
Nika Lawrie (56:37):
It's so huge.
Yeah, I'm such a big proponentfor feeling and recognizing
positive versus negative or darkversus light energy and really
trying to focus as much aspossible or guide yourself
towards that good, positiveenergy and to share that with
others who are maybe not in thesame kind of space, so I love it
(57:02):
.
Thank you for sharing that.
Absolutely, I hope it's helpfulfor someone, definitely.
Well, tanya, thank you so muchfor coming on the show.
I'm so grateful, thank you,thanks for having me.
Tonya Kay Herb (57:11):
I hope you have a fabulous afternoon.
Welcome to the Inspired with Nika Lawrie
podcast.
Welcome to the show.
I'm so grateful to have youhere today.
Tonya Kay Herb (00:19):
Thanks for having me.
I'm so excited to be here.
I can't wait to dive in.
Nika Lawrie (00:23):
I'm really excited to have you here.
Yeah, and just to dive in, Ithink the things we're going to
talk about today are so, soimportant, especially for women.
I know I've done a lot of workon myself in these areas and
doing that work has profoundlychanged my life, to the point
where I was probably reallystagnant and stuck in different
(00:45):
aspects of my life to feelinglike kind of like an unstoppable
powerhouse now.
And so we're going to talkabout perfectionism and limiting
beliefs and overthinking allkinds of stuff.
So I'm really excited to diveinto that.
But before we get into that,will you tell me a little bit
about your backstory?
Who are you, where'd you comefrom and how'd you get into this
work?
Tonya Kay Herb (01:04):
Oh my gosh, I love this part of the story,
right, so I really this work hasbeen part of my own journey.
That's really it.
And as far as location, I'mlocated in Boise, Idaho, and
I've been here.
I'm a native.
So I'm a native of the area andhave been here all my life, and
(01:26):
so we grew up in the country.
If you will, out in the middleof the sticks.
Nika Lawrie (01:33):
I grew up in the mountains outside of Albuquerque
, new Mexico, but it's very inthe sticks, very mountainous.
My closest neighbor was likefive miles away, so yeah.
Tonya Kay Herb (01:43):
Yes, that's kind of ours too.
When I was about 11, my parentsbought a piece of property and
it was a little further out thanwe'd already lived and so it
was about, I'd say, 20 minutesfrom getting to town.
We would call it going to town.
And when we first built thatproperty it was covered in
sagebrush.
And when we first built thatproperty it was covered in
(02:06):
sagebrush.
Oh wow.
And so we really, I guess you'dcall it pioneered that space.
And so I grew up kind of outthere, you know, just a little
small town, country girl, andthat's really it.
Part of me getting into thiswork is really how I grew up.
(02:26):
I had a great growing upBrother, dog parents, I mean the
perfect little Beaver Cleaverfamily and hardworking.
My parents were both in theschool districts and things like
that.
So you could see that that wasa very simple life and it was
(02:48):
just amazing.
And what I really started tounderstand as I got into my 50s
oh my gosh, I can't believe.
I just said that out loud, butI'm here and I'm owning it.
Yeah, own it.
It's great, it's a privilege.
Nika Lawrie (03:03):
Yes, I earned it.
It's great, it's a privilege.
Tonya Kay Herb (03:05):
Yes, I earned it .
And so what I really started tounderstand is that hardworking,
you know, keep your head down,put your big girl panties on and
let's just keep going, kind ofthing that gave me a lot of
resilience and work ethic andthat was amazing.
I thank my parents for that,and even just the surrounding
(03:27):
family.
And I got into this, before Ireally dove into this work, I
got into a space where I wasreally questioning who I was.
You know that, oh, who am I?
And you start overthinkingright.
Yep, oh who am I?
And you start overthinkingright.
And what I realized is as ayoung girl.
(03:47):
It's so different becausesometimes I hate even saying
this out loud, because somepeople really grew up with some
adversity and my growing up wasI was a daddy's girl, and so he
was so proud and mama's besthelper, yeah.
And so how that manifested intomy life is that as long as I
(04:12):
was a good girl, as long as Iwas doing the right things, as
long as I was thinking ahead ofeveryone else so that I could
anticipate their needs, then Iwas doing the right things.
Nika Lawrie (04:25):
Yeah, and then you were valued, you were loved,
right.
Tonya Kay Herb (04:29):
Yeah, that's how I operated and that's how I
learned to value myself, andwhat was interesting is that I
had that growing up and then,when I stepped out into the real
world as an adult, I keptlooking around for those people
that were going to say, wow,you're doing a great job or good
for you, or my cheerleader, andso I kept striving for that, to
(04:53):
hear those things, and what Irealized is that I was devaluing
myself, waiting for validationfrom others, myself waiting for
validation from others, and thatwas so big.
And I remember sitting with myparents not long ago and I was
(05:13):
just really kind of feeling blue.
I'd had a couple ofrelationships in the family that
weren't quite what I wanted andwhat I wanted let's really hone
in on that and I've got sometears kind of flowing and my dad
said wow, sissy, you're justgoing to have to suck it up.
(05:37):
And that hit me.
And my mom said it's just theway it is, You're just going to
have to move through it.
And the reason that hit me sohard is because that felt like I
was screaming from the insideout, going wait, wait, wait.
You mean I have to just acceptit and I can't do anything about
it.
Yeah, and that really was amoment for me where I went oh no
(06:03):
, I don't think so, and I had tostart diving deeper.
And that's really where thiswork started.
It was an aha moment.
Thank you, my parents.
You know, in my later years Idon't know if you call these
later years, but in this part ofmy life, yeah, I know it's a
(06:24):
huge when you have thoseprofound moments.
Nika Lawrie (06:29):
They can just be little, tiny things, but you're
like, oh, I get it now.
Just the door opens up and youcan see something different and
it's a whole new experience oflife by having those little
moments, those little shifts.
Tonya Kay Herb (06:43):
Yeah, it's almost like, just like you said,
a door opens and the sun comesout, and you're like, oh, and
then?
And then the things that starthappening after that, because
once you're aware of something,you can't be unaware again,
unless you can choose that.
But you're at that point you'rejust hiding, yeah, so, yeah,
(07:10):
that's, that's really where thework started.
Nika Lawrie (07:13):
So that um what led you to become like a life coach
and get into this career andstart helping people um really
identify and work through someof their issues.
Tonya Kay Herb (07:24):
Um, you know, I think I learned more from my
clients than this reallyidentify and work through some
of their issues.
You know, I think I learn morefrom my clients than this.
Right, that's always how itworks Every single day, right?
So you know, I was insidecorporate and what I found is
that every place I've ever beenwhether it's been for a job or a
nonprofit or what have you Ifind myself in a position of
(07:47):
leadership.
And maybe it's just leading aproject or a team or just an
idea.
I really started to understandthe responsibility that goes
with that oh, huge.
I started to understand theresponsibility that goes with
that yeah, because so huge.
(08:07):
I have, in fact, I did aworkshop yesterday on kind of
this and I believe thatleadership is about leading
yourself first, mm-hmm.
And it's not about the position, the title or any of those
things.
Yeah, it's really how you'reshowing up every single day.
And when you start to take thatinto account and you say, wow,
(08:31):
okay, huh, I'm here to make adifference.
Not just a difference, but amovement.
Right, to empower people.
And when I started understandingwhat empowerment was and
started sharing those outside ofmyself, right, instead of just
empowering myself, but learninghow to ask the right questions
(08:54):
or not the right questions I'mputting that in quotes.
But just ask more questions.
Be genuinely curious aboutpeople.
It changes things for them,because a lot of times people
don't feel seen, heard or valuedand they just need that.
And so I started doing thatinside of the spaces I was
already in and I recognized thatit really lit me up.
(09:20):
I gained so much energy fromsitting with someone and seeing
their aha moments or them go.
Oh, kind of like when my dadsaid, hey, sissy, you're just
going to have to suck it up.
But I'm like, wait, what?
Yeah, what Right, those momentsyou can literally see that
(09:40):
happen for people and to be onthat journey with them amazing.
But the thing is is that when Iwanted to do more of that, I
thought I didn't really seemyself leaving corporate.
I just thought, oh, I'm goingto just do this on the side for
friends and family and anybodythat needs it right.
And push came to shove at onepoint where I said, you know, I
want to step out of theleadership role and I really
(10:02):
want to just be with people.
I want to do more of that.
And then it became evident thatI needed to really just dive in
.
I don't even remember all ofthe steps or the aha moments
that happened, but I knew that Iwas on the right path.
It was a knowing.
Have you ever had anything likethat, where you just know?
Nika Lawrie (10:26):
Oh, absolutely.
There's a coaching group thatI'm part of.
It's a network that we all gettogether and meet and support
each other and stuff, and one ofthe sayings in there is live in
the knowing, and the idea isthat you follow what that
intuition, that gut feeling is,that you just you work towards
(10:49):
something that just feels right.
You can't explain it, it's just.
I don't know if it's like youknow, the universe giving you
information or whatever you know, god feeding it to you or
whatever it is you believe, butit's like you just have this
feeling and it's like this isthe right thing, this is the
path, and so, yeah, I definitelyknow what you're talking about
and I think it's huge.
(11:10):
I think a lot of people arereally disconnected from that in
their body, and working towardslearning how to listen to
yourself and how to feel thatfeeling of knowing is really,
really key to personaldevelopment as a whole.
Tonya Kay Herb (11:32):
Well, I think you just touched on something
that's really big and you'reright that all knowing you can't
explain it.
And where we get intooverthinking or perfectionism if
we're going to tie this inright here is that overthinking
and perfectionism is reallyaccepting external validation.
Is it the right thing?
(11:53):
Am I doing the right thing?
And you either put a post outnow you're counting the likes,
the comments or the what haveyou or you're sitting with
people, a coffee or dinner orwhat have you, and asking what
do you think about this, what doyou think about that?
Even though you have thatknowing inside, when you're
(12:16):
asking for that validation orwhat your thoughts are, there's
a difference between reallygetting someone's opinion on a
brainstorming session to how tomove your idea forward versus
having validation for it and thegroup that you're with.
I want to hear more about that.
Yes, I want to hear more aboutthat.
(12:38):
Tell me more about that.
Yeah, we could have anoff-episode whole conversation
about it.
Nika Lawrie (12:40):
It's phenomenal.
We could have an off episodewhole conversation about it.
It's phenomenal, yeah, great.
One of my favorite quotes orsaying is I'm paraphrasing here
because I'm going to totallymess it up, but Brene Brown
always talks about before we gobig, we go small.
And the idea is that if we havea big idea or we want to, you
(13:05):
know, make a move in ourbusiness or follow a dream or
whatever it is right, the bigpicture thing we need to go
small first and the idea is thatwe go into ourselves and we
listen to what our intuition istelling us, what our gut is
telling us.
You know, people will call itget the download from the
universe or something right, andit's like that meditation
(13:26):
moment where you just close outthe world and you just get quiet
and then you'll get thoseanswers.
You'll get the guidance thatyou really want of what's going
to feel right and it'll lead youto that knowing point and I've
always loved that.
I've used that as a big tool inmy life as I've moved forward
building my business and doingother things.
Tonya Kay Herb (13:47):
I think that that's such an important thing
to bring forward at this pointis just is really just kind of
quieting the noise, yeah Right,and sitting with ourselves and
just scanning your body for likefrom your toe.
You know how does it feel.
What am I?
Your body for like from yourtoe?
You know how does it feel.
What am I, what's going on,what are those things in my head
(14:09):
?
Yeah, so big that's, that's agreat tie in.
Nika Lawrie (14:10):
Yeah.
So I want to ask you, let's getinto the perfectionism and
overthinking.
And then I really want to talkabout limiting beliefs too,
because I know I've struggled alittle bit with perfectionism
over my life.
Overthinking is a huge thingand limiting beliefs is like the
biggest factor that I'vestruggled a little bit with
perfectionism over my life,overthinking is a huge thing and
limiting beliefs is like thebiggest factor that I've
personally had.
I have a ton of female friends,female entrepreneurs, that I
(14:35):
see fall into one of these threecategories as well, and so I
want to kind of dive into kindof getting your view on each of
those topics and then some ofthe suggestions you might have
for helping people kind ofidentify, maybe, what the
limiting belief is, or you knowstrategies to kind of overcome
them.
Is there a specific one thatyou like the best, whether
(14:59):
perfectionism, limiting beliefsor overthinking that you'd want
to start with, or do you want tojust lump them together?
Tonya Kay Herb (15:04):
Let's just dive in, okay, because I think they
all, they all kind of intertwine.
Yeah, they're all dating.
It's like this dating circle.
Nika Lawrie (15:12):
I think it's funny, though, because you think about
each one and ultimately theycome down to one factor, maybe
two factors, and it's beingaccepted and feeling loved.
I think, are the two bigproponents that go into both of
them.
Yes, let's start withperfectionism, because I see a
(15:32):
lot of people struggling withthis.
They want to look perfect, theywant to get it all right.
So how do we really start toidentify if we are
perfectionists and maybe don'tknow?
And then what are a coupleideas that you have to help kind
of overcome this issue?
Tonya Kay Herb (15:49):
Oh, my gosh perfectionism.
So right, and I could talkabout it because I find myself
in.
Even though I help people getout of it, right, the reason I'm
really good at helping peopleget out of it is because I
struggle with it myself.
Right, that's how it all goes.
Nika Lawrie (16:10):
Yeah, I think every coach becomes a coach, whether
it's a health coach or lifecoach or business coach, because
they've struggled with itthemselves and they want to help
other people, not struggle.
Yeah, exactly, yeah.
Tonya Kay Herb (16:24):
So you know, I think that, okay, there are a
couple of different components,and I think that one of the
first ones is is that you findyourself not taking action or
procrastinating because you'rewaiting for the right moment.
It'll be, I'll be ready whenright, or once I do X, y, z,
(16:49):
I'll be ready.
Yeah, or I'm going to do this,this and this, and then I'll be
ready.
Or after I get through this,this, this and this, and then
I'll be ready.
Or after I get through this,the current survival mode that
I'm in right, then I'll be ready.
That's one way.
The other thing is and this isthe one that I get stuck in is,
(17:10):
especially as a solopreneur, Iwill put together a new package
of offerings or even a landingpage for someone to go to, and I
tweak it 498 times right.
And even though the firstversion looks great, I'm like,
(17:33):
okay, well, is the verbiage justright.
Instead of putting it out therelooks great, I'm like, okay,
well, is the verbiage just right.
And instead of putting it outthere and getting feedback or no
feedback, hey, guess what?
No feedback is feedback.
Yeah, right, that's another wayThinking about oh, did I turn
the coffee pot off?
Did I, whoa?
(17:54):
Did I shut that door?
Is the iron still on Some ofthose things, right?
And I don't know that those tiein necessarily to perfectionism,
but perfectionism andoverthinking, kind of you know,
are one foot on one side of theline and one foot on the other
side of the line.
You're still over the line.
Yeah, yeah, you know what I'msaying.
Yeah, know what I'm saying.
And then here's the one andthis is what I find with people
(18:18):
that are top producers orrunning small teams, before they
move into the space where theyhave to let things go, they're
overwhelmed with every teammember that they add, because
now they think they have to stayahead of them, and the idea is
(18:45):
that that team member is addingvalue because they're there to
take things off your plate.
So here's news for everybodyyou have to learn to delegate
and let go.
And if they do it differentlythan you do, you can learn from
that.
Just because you've done itthis way all this time doesn't
mean it's the only way to get tothe finish line, yeah.
So those are places that youcan recognize and here's how you
(19:09):
move past it.
Awareness we talked about this afew minutes ago.
Right, like once, you're aware,you can't be unaware again and
so really just going okay, I amaware that I do these things,
and so the awareness is one.
And then number two is make adecision to take one step, tiny
(19:33):
step, just one.
One step, tiny step, just one.
It doesn't matter if you thinkit's the right direction, but
you have to move into adirection, because it shifts
energy, it shifts all that stufffrom the universe and it just
starts to bring all of thosethings forward.
And so, every step, just aware,make a decision, take the step.
(19:56):
Yeah, that's really for me,that's how I do it.
Yeah, that's how I coach myclients to do it.
We're going to take one step.
Nika Lawrie (20:10):
Doesn't have to be the perfect step, I think, for
me.
When I started, I went througha very traumatic couple of years
in my life.
I had a lot of big T traumashappen and coming through that.
On the other side, I felt verylost in what my identity was.
I had an idea of what I wantedto do and who I wanted to be.
(20:32):
I had this idea of this companythat I wanted to build, but I
was really struggling with howdo I do it, how do I package it
all together?
How do I make it look like whatI want it to look like?
And what I found was I waslooping in these circles of
overthinking and trying to getit.
(20:53):
I don't even know if it waslike trying to get it perfect,
but it was trying to get it goodenough that I felt like I
wasn't going to be embarrassedby sharing it.
And what I found that you know,going through that cycle of
looping and looping and loopingwas I was literally going
nowhere.
It was literally, you know, andit took a couple years of me
(21:14):
looping, of doing basically thesame issues over and over and
not making any progress, and itwasn't until I really started to
deep dive into what my limitingbeliefs were and reframing what
those beliefs were.
That's reframing is whatallowed me to break out of that
(21:35):
overthinking perfectionism cycle, mm-hmm.
And the biggest factor thatcame from changing those
limiting beliefs was my abilityto disconnect from the outcome
of whatever it was I wascreating.
So an example would be would be.
(22:03):
So I can give an example.
So I recently applied for a VC,like a venture capitalist
program where you learndifferent techniques and you get
investment in those kinds ofthings and thousands and
thousands and thousands ofpeople apply for it and you can
apply every couple of months.
And I did my first application.
It was like a random one theydid, and so it was rushed and so
I only had like two days toapply and I did the very best I
(22:23):
could filling out theapplication and getting it all
in.
Well, I wasn't accepted and forme, like if you'd asked me a
couple years ago, that wouldhave devastated me, that would
have told me that I wasn't goodenough, I wasn't worthy enough,
my idea wasn't good enough.
I you know this must be a badidea.
I'm going to fail, right,that's where I would have.
But, coming through, workingthrough all these issues, I
(22:46):
received the decline email andmy response was like no, I'll
reply, I'll reapply in a fewmonths and I've got a bunch of
other funding ideas like to workon.
So it literally was like okay,whatever, and I just moved on
with my day and and I guess thereason I'm telling the story is
because I want the listeners tounderstand that working on these
specific issues will completelychange how you respond
(23:12):
emotionally to basicallyeverything in your life 100%.
Tonya Kay Herb (23:17):
Yeah, that is so beautiful.
Nika Lawrie (23:19):
Oh, thank you.
Tonya Kay Herb (23:25):
You know, when you first started talking about
it, I was thinking, oh, thelimiting.
The coach and me put my hat onand I was like, oh, the limiting
beliefs are coming up here,right, and for you to walk
through that and for thelisteners to be able to hear
your story so beautifully andeloquently stated that it's easy
(23:46):
for people to understand andtie to that.
Yeah, oh, she's been there too,right?
Yeah, yeah, I was speaking.
I'm on a text thread and I wentto an event last night and it's
put on by one of the localbusinesses here and it's Woman
of the Year and it's been goingon for 19 years and there were
(24:09):
160 applicants to this, yeah,and I had the honor of being
nominated.
Oh, congratulations, thank you.
And so I was nominated for thisand I was in shock, first of
all because I didn't have anyidea who had nominated me, and I
went through a process similarto yours where I was like, oh,
(24:31):
wow, okay, and I'm going to putmy application in and and I'm
gonna send it through all thestuff and and wow, I mean, I was
just shocked and I didn't getit either.
I was like, oh, I didn't makethe top 50 and and.
But I was invited last night tothe gala, uh, because one of my
(24:52):
friends made it through, and Iwas like, wow, and an older
version of me an earlier versionwas very much would have been I
don't belong in this room.
These women are amazing, they'reaccomplishments, they're I
(25:12):
don't even have all the words.
I was just so overwhelmed withwow, just wow, do I really
belong here?
I recognized that that wouldhave been an earlier version of
me and as I walked in, I waslike, heck, yes, I'm in the
right room because I'm in thepresence of this greatness and I
(25:35):
get to talk to these women andfind out what drives them, what
things they've overcome and whatwork have they done, similar to
yours and mine, right?
What have they done to overcomeand get through some of those
limiting beliefs, to push thatperfectionism aside and move
through and recognize thoseoverthinking loops that keep you
(25:59):
stuck?
And so I walked away and I wassharing on this text thread this
morning that very story of howincredibly grateful I am to be
in walking this journey at thistime in my life with everyone
that comes into it, becauseeveryone is a gift.
(26:20):
Whether we connect deeply ornot, there's so much that we can
learn and share, right, insteadof just trying to take from
everyone, how can we share ourgifts?
Nika Lawrie (26:36):
Yeah, I mean I couldn't agree with you more on
the sharing.
I think for me the mostprofound moments of my life have
been when I've donecollaborations or when
somebody's helped me with onething and so I help them with
something else, and that backand forth rapport is what's
(26:56):
lifted both of us up and movedboth of us forward.
When it's just that one youknow, give and take kind of
thing, it's kind of holding bothpeople down really, because the
person giving isn't receivingwhat they need to lift up and
the person taking isn'tnecessarily growing or learning
(27:17):
or expanding either, they'rejust receiving, and so it holds
both parties back.
Tonya Kay Herb (27:24):
Well said.
Yes, thank you.
I 100, 100%, I agree, I agree.
Nika Lawrie (27:30):
So okay, so we've talked about like how you know
life-changing this work can be.
We've talked about like how youknow life-changing this work
can be.
Can you give us some reallyclear strategies on how do we
start to identify, maybe, whenwe have some limiting beliefs,
how do we even know that they'relimiting beliefs and how can we
start to reframe them or shiftthe story that we're telling in
(27:53):
our minds?
Tonya Kay Herb (27:55):
Okay, so limiting beliefs, if I can kind
of just sum it up a little bit,it really is questioning when
you're saying, oh, I can't.
Well, let's just start withthis one thing, and this may
help us get to that limitingbelief, if we can just go down
(28:17):
this rabbit hole for a second.
So I promise to go in and thenout.
Nika Lawrie (28:21):
You're good Go down the hole, go in.
Tonya Kay Herb (28:23):
Okay.
So our brains are like thismagical supercomputer and what
happens is that our brainbelieves everything we tell it,
good or bad, yeah, right.
So that's a neural plasticity,right.
(28:44):
And so all those neurons thatfire together, wire together.
So if you have something that'sgoing on and you believe it to
be one way, then it absolutelyis going to be that way.
Limiting beliefs gets stuckthere.
But when we go, wait, why do Ibelieve that?
Why, well, because that's theway it's always been done.
(29:10):
Or well, that was how I wastaught, that was how I was
raised.
I hear that a lot.
That was how I was raised, yeah, yeah.
And or you've been in a groupsetting and someone starts
yapping and I say yap, becausethey're gossiping or talking
(29:30):
about someone else, and youdon't agree, but you don't say
anything.
So now you all of a suddenunderstand judgment, right.
So we limit ourselves tobelieving what's going on around
us or what we've been told ortaught, instead of questioning
(29:50):
and saying why do I believe that?
Where did that come from?
Why do I believe that, wheredid that come from?
You could sometimes go back tothose places in your life and
recognize where it came from Ifyou start with being good enough
, right, or wanting validation,or I'll be ready when you can
(30:13):
actually trace that almost allthe time back to a childhood
space, almost always, yeah,almost always.
And when you go back and you say, huh, let's see, because of
this, there was this.
I'll give you an example.
So, um, in my own life, uh, my,uh, my brother was a very sick
(30:39):
little one and so that mama'sbest helper that was me, right,
and so that limiting belief thatwe talked about in the very
beginning of if I can anticipateneeds, so that, and my mom was
such an amazing and giving momstill is right, but I just
(31:03):
wanted to be her best helper.
That's how I received love,right?
Yeah, so when I bring thatforward, I hold on.
I just went down the rabbithole.
Everybody follow me, right?
So if I go back to those spaceswhen my brother was young,
really young, I can see where Iwas helping with his meds, or I
(31:26):
was helping take care of him, orI was making sure that mama
didn't have to do extra pickingup after me, right, those things
.
So if you bring it forward totoday, I've already worked
through that, but there was aperiod of time where I hadn't, I
couldn't figure out whyeverybody didn't just know what
(31:47):
they needed to do next.
Why didn't other people justanticipate that there was going
to be this need or that need?
Why didn't they just act on it?
And I was really very judgmentalfor a long period of time where
I'm like why can't you peoplejust figure it out, why can't
you see it?
Yeah, and I know I sound like ajerk right now, but I really
was in that space and I had notolerance for it and I was kind
(32:10):
of judgy.
But when I stepped back and Iwent but why do I believe that?
Outthink or anticipate everyoneelse?
And when I started realizingthat it came from my childhood,
I went oh, but because I'moverthinking, anticipating and
(32:38):
carrying this limiting belief,I'm actually disempowering
others to step into theirgreatness.
Nika Lawrie (32:55):
I hope everybody followed me through that journey
learn and really succeed inmaybe a difficult moment or a
moment where there's a lot ofcollaboration and work that
needs to be done.
It's allowing space for thosepeople to shine as well, opposed
to you just anticipatingeverything and trying to fill
(33:17):
all of those gaps, not allowingother people to fill those gaps
and shine themselves.
Does that make sense?
Tonya Kay Herb (33:23):
100%, and a lot of times we stay in that space
and we go well, if I don't do it, no one else will, because
you've trained everyone thatyou're always going to show up,
no matter what.
They don't have to show up in aspace with you because you're
always going to outshineeverybody and and they don't
(33:46):
even have a space to share withyou.
And so yeah, go ahead, go ahead.
I think that that when wereally understand that we've
trained people how to behave ortreat us, and that it's up to us
to shift the way we operate sothat others have space to
(34:06):
collaborate and be together withus, it changes everything.
Nika Lawrie (34:10):
Yeah, yeah, I think that's so huge for especially
mothers to learn.
Mothers fill that role all thetime where we have to anticipate
everybody's needs.
We have to ensure that the houseis running functionally.
We have to ensure that thehouse is running functionally.
We have to ensure that there'sgroceries and lunches are packed
and whatever right, Like allthe doctor's appointments are
scheduled and people are gettingthere on time.
(34:31):
And there's so much pressureand expectation for the mother
to manage all of that and so sherises to that level but with
that comes burnout andexhaustion and anger and
resentment and the issue, likeyou said, is that we've trained
our family to believe that wewill fill all those spaces
(34:54):
because we have in the past andit's really key to have those
conversations with familymembers that shift the
responsibility more evenlyacross different members of the
family.
Tonya Kay Herb (35:07):
The other thing I want to bring forward is that
it's not just with your family.
You do it at work too.
Yeah, so true, you do it insideyour businesses.
You do it inside right, so noone has to participate.
So when we talked about, when Italked earlier about not being
able to delegate, this is partof understanding that right.
(35:40):
It's learning to let go ofthose things and let is safe for
them to fail forward faster,because if they don't feel like
they can fail or they're goingto be judged or ridiculed or
corrected, sometimes thosedefense mechanisms come up.
What happens is that it takescourage to fail, and so, in
(36:06):
order to do that, you have toprovide let me see if I can say
it provide a safe space, right?
Yeah, yeah.
Nika Lawrie (36:16):
This is an important conversation.
I think it's huge.
I know I've talked to somewomen friends of mine about, you
know, different struggles we'vehad.
You know, managing householdsor with our husbands and things
like that.
And one of the pieces thatwe've struggled with is having
to quote unquote train ourhusbands to do different things.
(36:37):
Right.
And you know we come to it like, well, they're grown adults,
they shouldn't have to betrained.
And you know we come to it like, well, they're grown adults,
they shouldn't have to betrained.
But the reality is is if youhave expectations of different
things that you want to havehappen.
I'll give you an example in myhousehold.
So I'm very particular aboutthe groceries we buy.
I'm very particular about thetypes of foods, the brands we
(37:06):
buy, about organic versusnon-organic and what products
come in the house.
And my husband didn't come fromthat same world and so he helps
, he's amazing around the houseand does a lot of things.
But I've had to have manyconversations with him about,
you know, these are the organicproducts that we buy and these
are the brands that we buy forxyz or whatever.
And so when he does the groceryshopping, um, he now knows to
(37:27):
get those products.
But had I not been willing tohave those conversation with him
, my expectations wouldn't havebeen met.
And then, um, you know, therewould have been that struggle of
him not doing what I wanted tohave done or the types of
groceries.
I'm kind of going down a rabbithole too, but the idea is being
(37:49):
willing to provide theinformation and support the
people and train the people todo whatever it is that you want
to have done so that you can letgo of, you can delegate those
items and let go of them.
Tonya Kay Herb (38:03):
I guess, if that makes sense, let go.
Oh my gosh, let go.
I actually have let go tattooedon my arm, do you?
Yeah, yes, because I need thatreminder.
You have to let go, that's sobig, and I think you bring
something forward too.
Is you know, we're not mindreaders.
Nika Lawrie (38:23):
Yeah, and neither is anybody else.
Tonya Kay Herb (38:25):
We have to be comfortable sharing why
something matters to us and why,and not from a space where we
say, well, I want you to hear myopinion, but from a space where
it's a conversation whereyou're saying this is what
matters to me and why, and Iwant to understand how you
(38:48):
understand this scenario orsituation for our family and
what's important to you aboutthe things that we bring into
our home.
And can we have thisconversation?
Because it's not about justdictating or delegating and just
throwing it out and just goLetting people understand the
(39:09):
why behind it, and because weall have a different element
that we tie into each story oreach thing that we're talking
about, absolutely.
Nika Lawrie (39:20):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Talking about Absolutely yeah,yeah, yeah.
So let's get back to a coupleof the resources or tools that
you have.
Can you give me like two toolsthat you regularly use with your
clients to help them workthrough some of these issues?
How do we start to overcomethese struggles?
Tonya Kay Herb (39:40):
How do we start to overcome these struggles.
So I use a concept that helpscenter and align you us, that
help us mitigate theoverthinking, the perfectionism,
those limiting beliefs, and itreally is work right, it is
(40:05):
doing some of the work.
But I use an acronym that helpsus redefine how we can show up
in the world, and it is calledthe bike concept.
And, for those of you justlistening, there's a bike on the
wall behind me, so it's therefor a purpose.
Nika Lawrie (40:20):
But it's a reminder .
Tonya Kay Herb (40:30):
I have a big story behind that, but I want to
get into the concept itself andhow it helps us, because we
talk a lot about authenticity,right, we hear just be you, and
people don't understand how todo that.
Well, I don't even know who Iam.
How do I do that, right?
Yeah, that's a big chunk of Idon't even know who I am.
Nika Lawrie (40:44):
How do I do that Right?
Yeah, that's a big chunk ofwhat I was going to ask you
about too, so keep going, yes.
Tonya Kay Herb (40:49):
Okay, so the acronym is BIKE, b-i-k-e, right,
so the B stands for B-U.
And how we do that is we stopapologizing for who we are,
mm-hmm.
And how we do that is we stopapologizing for who we are, we
stop filtering who we are.
Because you and I have talkedabout this a little bit we think
(41:13):
that we should show up incertain scenarios based on what
we assume people's expectationsare.
Yeah, and that leaves usfeeling less than right Because
we don't know how we should showup.
So that's where the anxietycomes in.
How should I show up?
How should I?
You know, what do they expectfrom me?
(41:35):
But when we let go of thoseexpectations and we've been
invited to a space because ofwho we are, because we have
something to offer and it's agift who we are and how we show
up is a gift.
So there's a difference betweenfitting in and belonging.
And when we're trying to fit insomewhere, we filter how we
(42:03):
show up.
I'm kind of like a chameleon oh, I like that too.
Or if I wear X, y, z, thenthey're going to like me.
Or if I've accomplished A, b, c, then they're going to like me.
That fitting in always leavesus feeling less than, but when
we truly belong somewhere.
We're accepted for who we are,as we are, but we have to stop
(42:26):
filtering how we show up andstart showing and sharing some
of those unique, quirky, funny,silly passions that we have.
Right, I mean some of thosethings.
And you'd be surprised, whenyou start sharing some of your
quirks, how it just relaxes thewhole writing out what your
(42:51):
three to five core values arethat matter to you.
Is it family, is itspirituality, is it health, is
(43:12):
it whatever it is?
And you identify those andeverything that you live for
filters through those corevalues.
Filters through those corevalues.
And when you start to honeyourself that way and show up
with that on your sleeve versusall of the expectations, that
changes everything.
Yeah, because the relationshipsthat you have will be more
(43:38):
dynamic, more diverse, right,and it'll also start to filter
out those fake relationships.
Yeah, right, you'll start tosee that.
So the I and this one I createdbecause I'm an introvert.
(43:58):
I'm an introvert and so whatthat means is that I spend
energy when I'm with a group ofpeople.
Extroverts gain energy whenthey're with a group of people.
So I can be in a room filledwith people and feel all the
(44:19):
energy for a month for that timewhile I'm with them, but when I
leave, feel all the energy fora month for that time while I'm
with them, but when I leave, Ineed to regroup, so that
introvert side of me, okay, sothe I stands for insight.
So what happens for me and Idon't know if this happens for
you, but when I go into a newsituation or I'm networking or I
meet someone new for the firsttime, sometimes my head starts
(44:41):
spinning.
What if they don't like me?
What if we don't connect?
What if I see something stupidor that they judge me for All of
that?
What if stuff right, what you dois you shift gears.
There you go, shift the gearson your bike and you look for
insight.
(45:01):
And so now you're bringinggenuine curiosity to the table
and you're saying, okay, I'mgoing to let go of all that, and
what I really want to know is Iwant to look for insight.
What insight can I gain here?
What insight can I take away orlearn about you?
What will I learn about myselfin our conversation?
What will I learn about myselfin our conversation?
(45:22):
What will I learn that I didn'tknow before?
So now you're being more of whoyou are meant to be.
You're looking for insight,that genuine curiosity, and
it'll be surprising how manymore questions, inquisitive
(45:43):
questions.
You ask someone because nowyou're looking for insight and,
oh, tell me more about that.
And oh, that's interesting I'venever even thought about that
right.
It changes the line ofquestioning, so the k stands for
kindness, sounds simple, right.
Nika Lawrie (45:57):
I love it because that's my probably top value.
Tonya Kay Herb (46:00):
Okay.
So we're not talking aboutniceties or politeness or
manners.
We're talking about genuinelybeing kind, because the
neuroscience behind kindnessEmory University did a study and
they found that when you sharekindness with another, your
(46:21):
brain's pleasure reward centerlights up, as if you're the
receiver and not the giver.
Well, that's a dopamine hit,and remember when I said before
that that neuroplasticity ofyour brain believes everything
you tell it.
Well, it's because of thefeelings in your body that are
coming up right.
So your brain doesn't know anydifferent, because kindness
(46:42):
feels good no matter what,whether you're giving or
receiving.
So now you're being more ofyourself, right, you've lined up
with those core values.
You're looking for insight.
You're genuinely curious aboutother people and what makes them
tick.
You're sharing kindness fromyour core, which feels good, and
(47:03):
the E stands for engage.
I don't know about you, butI've sat across many coffee
meetings, been in group meetingsor at dinner and someone across
the table is scrolling.
Yeah, it's just rude, it is,it's just rude.
It's just rude.
It's just rude, it's just rude.
Nika Lawrie (47:21):
It's just rude.
It's just rude, it's just rude.
Tonya Kay Herb (47:22):
It's just rude, it is.
It leaves you feeling sounengaged, so disconnected,
right?
Yeah, so the thing is is thatwhen you engage with someone and
you put those devices downbecause we're starving for
connection, and then it changeseverything like so bernie brown,
(47:44):
you talked about bernie brownearlier.
She also has a quote that saysconnection is the energy that's
exchanged between people whenthey feel seen, heard and valued
.
That's big so, and you have adeeper connection.
Engagement with someone whenyou're being more of yourself,
(48:07):
when you're genuinely curious,sharing kindness and just being
present in that moment.
That is the tool that I use andthat helps us stop and think
about how we're going to show up, because when we think about,
when we put that forward,overthinking and perfectionism
(48:27):
seem to come down a few notches.
It doesn't mean they'recompletely gone.
What it means is that now wehave room to grow and we can
identify and acknowledge whereoverthinking and perfectionism
show up, because they'repatterns for us.
So the only way to eliminate apattern is to recognize it and
work on it.
(48:47):
Yeah, Absolutely.
Nika Lawrie (48:51):
Yeah, one of my, one of the quotes that's always
stuck in my head.
I don't know if I wouldn't callit one of my favorites, but I
remember hearing so.
Jay Shetty was on Lewis Howe'spodcast and this was, I don't
know, probably seven or eightyears ago now.
It's been a long time and Idon't know who actually says the
quote.
But Jay talks about how I am,who I think you think I am.
(49:15):
That's the identity piece,right.
And so we're showing up as ifwe're trying to be the person
that we think you think we areopposed, can remove all of that
inauthentic, materialistic kindof pieces of ourselves and just
(49:51):
be ourselves.
That's when that confidencestarts to come out.
That's when we start to pushdown the worries and fears that
cause the overthinking andperfectionism loop loops, right,
and then we can start to reallymove forward with our lives and
things that we want to do,confidently and, um, with some
(50:12):
resilience as well.
Tonya Kay Herb (50:14):
I love that yes, yeah, um, that you know there
are two.
There are a couple of people inmy life that I love, that I
want to be when I grow up.
And here's why and you touchedon it a little bit about we show
(50:38):
up as who we think we'reexpected to be Blah, blah, blah
up as who we think we'reexpected to be, and if we can go
down that rabbit hole for justa moment and you can tell when
people are really just kind offaking it till you make it right
.
Yeah, and not really genuinelythere in the moment.
And these two people show up inmy life because I watch them.
(51:06):
They're great networkers andwhat makes them great networkers
?
And not everybody wants tonetwork.
But here's what is great aboutthem.
It doesn't matter who walksinto their space or their
purview, it's never about them.
They're always so genuinelycurious.
It's about their greeting.
(51:27):
Have you ever met somebodywhere, every time you see them,
their greeting isn't just hey,how are you?
It's hey, I was, just how areyou, and that energy that they
bring to that greeting.
I've really started to hone inon that and I've watched them in
(51:48):
rooms of people and theconversation is so engaging and
enlightening and it just carries.
And I think that there's a lotto be said for how we greet
others, yeah, and how we justput out that little bit of
(52:09):
effort.
That feels good, because itfeels good not only for them,
for the other person you'remeeting, but also for you,
because you're actually puttingforward that energy.
Nika Lawrie (52:21):
Yeah, yeah, definitely you, because you're
actually putting forward thatenergy.
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
Well, tanya, I have one morequestion for you, but before I
get to the final question, Iwant to.
Well, I guess I have twoquestions, but first I just want
to thank you for the workyou're doing.
I think it's really, reallyimportant.
I can't preface enough of howmuch doing this work for myself
(52:43):
has changed my life, and so Ireally hope listeners find you,
connect with you, do the workthemselves, because it's so
life-changing, and I just wantto see as many people you know
grow and expand and have these,you know, joy-filled, confident
lives in front of them.
So thank you for the workyou're doing.
(53:05):
I really appreciate it, andthank you for the time that
you're here and sharing all yourexpertise with us too.
It's really special and I'mgrateful for it.
Tonya Kay Herb (53:13):
So thank you it has been an absolute treat and I
love the work that you do.
It's so important to get all ofthis information out to people
and just have a space to shareit Absolutely.
Nika Lawrie (53:27):
Yeah, it's so needed and I just want to
support as many people aspossible in the world to heal
and feel good and live happy,joyful lives.
So my, I guess, my, last twoquestions where can the audience
actually connect with you?
Where can they find you?
And I'll be sure to link toeverything in the show notes too
, but how can they find you?
Tonya Kay Herb (53:46):
Yes, and so I'm on Instagram as Tanya K Herb and
you can find me there, or onFacebook.
I'm on LinkedIn as well and Ihave a website, tanyakco C-O,
and you can reach me there, andin the show notes there will be
(54:07):
linked to my link tree thatthere are some free downloads in
there, that kind of help youget through some of those core
values or even scoring whereyou're at in your life,
different segments of your lifeor there's also a link inside
that link tree that offers yourlisteners a few minutes with me
(54:33):
If they really want to chat fora few moments or have a story to
share.
I love to hear from people.
I absolutely do.
Nika Lawrie (54:40):
Love that.
Yeah, I'll be sure to link allthat in the show notes,
definitely make it easy aspossible, thank you.
So, tanya, my last question foryou today is something I ask
all my guests but what issomething that you've either
learned or experienced thatinspired you, that you'd like to
share with others?
Tonya Kay Herb (55:07):
something that I've learned.
Wow, you know, I want to goback to the space of really just
learning to slow down and spendjust a few minutes with myself
every morning.
And the reason I do that it'seven before I get out of bed.
And the reason I do that it'seven before I get out of bed.
I recognize that I'm not goingto feel the same way every
single day, and so I do a scanwhen I wake up in the morning,
(55:30):
from my toes to my head actually, and how am I really feeling
this morning?
And some mornings I'm filledwith gratitude, and some
mornings I may be heavy with athought, and I recognize what
those are and I accept it andwork through it.
And the reason I do that isbecause now, when I go out to
(55:51):
the day and I'm meeting withother people, I sometimes feel
other people's energy andsometimes it weighs heavy on me.
And I can recognize thatbecause I tapped into my energy
that morning that if someoneelse's energy is heavy or even
sad, I can feel that and I canreally just recognize that
(56:13):
that's not my energy.
But what I do is I say tomyself oh, that's not mine, but
I'm going to bless it with loveand I'm going to send it back to
them, and that's exactly what Ido.
It's been the biggest gamechanger for me in my life to
recognize what my energy is andwhat's not my energy, and be
(56:35):
able to love it and send it back.
Nika Lawrie (56:37):
It's so huge.
Yeah, I'm such a big proponentfor feeling and recognizing
positive versus negative or darkversus light energy and really
trying to focus as much aspossible or guide yourself
towards that good, positiveenergy and to share that with
others who are maybe not in thesame kind of space, so I love it
(57:02):
.
Thank you for sharing that.
Absolutely, I hope it's helpfulfor someone, definitely.
Well, tanya, thank you so muchfor coming on the show.
I'm so grateful, thank you,thanks for having me.
Tonya Kay Herb (57:11):
I hope you have a fabulous afternoon.
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