September 17, 2024 • 49 mins
Can chronic pain and limited mobility really be transformed through fascia release? Julia Blackwell’s miraculous journey suggests so. Born with significant nerve damage, Julia faced years of limited physical capability and chronic pain. Traditional Western medicine offered little relief, but her relocation to Boulder, Colorado, brought her into contact with a fascia release technique that changed her life. In my heartfelt chat with Julia, we uncovered how this method dramatically improved her mobility and overall well-being, providing hope for others facing similar challenges. Join us in this insightful episode to learn about the transformative power of fascia release and how it can revolutionize your approach to chronic pain and mobility issues.
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*This podcast and its contents are for informational purposes only and are not intended to replace professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always consult your physician or a qualified health provider for any questions concerning a medical condition or health objectives. Additionally, the advice and strategies contained herein may not be suitable for every individual and are not guaranteed for business, personal, or wellness success. Use discretion and seek professional counsel when necessary.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Nika Lawrie (00:06):
Welcome to the Inspired with Nika Larie podcast
.
Julia Blackwell, welcome to theshow.
I'm so happy to have you heretoday.
Hi, I'm so grateful to be here.
Yeah, so we're going to dothings a little bit different on
the show today.
I know a lot of times we talkabout nutrition and kind of
(00:28):
functional medicine and stuff,but I think this is a really key
part that a lot of times, Idon't get to discuss with
clients or with my audience onthe podcast.
I'm excited to have you herebecause it's such an important
part of our body.
We're going to talk aboutfascia and kind of how to take
care of it and how healing itcan really improve a lot of
different aspects of our lives.
(00:49):
Before we get into all of that,though, can you tell me a
little bit about your backstory?
Who are you?
What led you into beinginterested in fascia?
Julia Blackwell (00:59):
Yeah, well, I've been doing fascia release
here around the Denver Coloradoarea for 11 or 12 years.
At this point it's been aminute, yeah, and you know I've
certainly been enjoying thescenery here.
I do a lot of mountain climbingand rock climbing and running
(01:19):
around with my dogs and helpingpeople heal from pain and
improve their mobility, improvetheir general health all across
the board.
But yeah, the story of how Igot into this is lifelong
actually.
So I was almost a 10-pound baby.
Nika Lawrie (01:40):
Oh my goodness, I know yeah.
Julia Blackwell (01:43):
Starting strong in in the process of being born
I got stuck.
So when they pulled me out, thedoctor ended up stretching and
tearing most of the nerves in myright shoulder.
Nika Lawrie (01:56):
I'm so sorry.
Julia Blackwell (01:59):
That is, it's my, it's my journey, you know
yeah.
Nika Lawrie (02:01):
Yeah, in a way it's kind of a good thing because it
leads you know, that traumaleads to positive things for a
lot of people sometimes.
So absolutely.
Julia Blackwell (02:09):
It took me a while to get there, yeah, but uh
, you know, I did have a nerveregraft surgery when I was about
four months old and that didhelp bring my arm somewhat back
online, if you will.
It really was the lowestpossible functioning arm at all,
but I was still left with a lotof limited mobility all
(02:34):
throughout my arm, my shoulder,my elbow, everything in that
section, and so much incessanttightness.
And I grew up going through thestandard Western medicine
system.
So many of us have the sameroundabout story.
But I went from doctor todoctor, practitioner to
(02:55):
practitioner, and reallyeveryone told me that there was
nothing further that they coulddo for me, that the limited
strength, the limited mobility,the tightness was just going to
be a part of my life forever and, if anything, I should prepare
for it to get worse over time.
And when you hear these types ofthings from people of authority
(03:18):
, you believe them, especiallywhen you're younger and you're
not any different, especiallywhen you're younger and you're
not any different.
So while I did fully believe inmany ways that nothing was ever
going to change for me, I stillwas fascinated by the body.
I wanted to understand as muchas I could about myself and my
(03:39):
limitations, and so I stilltried all kinds of different
things.
So I went to massage therapists, I went to chiropractors, I did
acupuncture, physical therapy,bought just about any tool or
gadget that you can think of tojust see if anything would help,
(03:59):
but truly nothing gave melasting relief, if anything
helped at all.
Nika Lawrie (04:05):
Yeah.
Julia Blackwell (04:06):
So it wasn't until I moved out to Boulder,
colorado, in 2010.
And by some beautiful, fatefulchance, I met this lady who did
a specific type of fasciarelease work, and I'd heard
fascia mentioned.
I went to school for exercisephysiology because of my you
(04:26):
know obsession with anatomy andunderstanding the body, but they
had mentioned fascia in a waythat was very fleeting, like hey
, this is what connects tendonsand ligaments to bone, and they
moved on for the most part.
So I was very unsure about whatexactly this fascia work was
(04:48):
going to do and, just likeeverything else I had tried, I
really had no expectations atall for it.
But this work took me bycomplete surprise.
I knew very quickly that thiswas different from anything else
that I had done before, and Isaw more results in just the
feel, the function and even thelook of my arm in three months
(05:12):
than I had in a lifetime ofdoing all these other
traditional methods.
It was incredible.
I had emotional releases, I hadmuscles started to fire again.
I finally started getting somerelief from this tension that I
was feeling.
It was so powerful and, whileit didn't completely eradicate
this issue and I'm still workingon it it's unbelievably better,
(05:37):
especially for something that Iwas told was never, ever going
to change.
Yeah, was never, ever going tochange.
So I pivoted almost immediatelyinto learning everything I could
about fascia and startedlearning some different
modalities that were similar towhat I had experienced, and I
started to see the same resultsfor all of these other people.
(06:00):
It was almost miraculous attimes.
So many people that, like me,had tried all of the typical
things that we're told to do orthat we think are our only
options.
This was the missing piece forthem as well.
So it's been a really funjourney and I'm so glad I'm here
and I've really enjoyed helpingother people understand that
(06:23):
there are answers for thingsthat they've been told there are
no answers for.
Nika Lawrie (06:27):
Absolutely.
I mean such a powerful story.
I know.
You know I talked to so manypeople and they have it's always
a different thing that they youknow an ailment or a struggle
that they've had, but it'salways that piece where you know
they kind of went outside thebox a little bit, they opened up
themselves to you knowpotentially a new option that
might work, and then bam, itchanges everything for them,
(06:49):
right.
And so I think that's such akey component of your story and
others is be willing to you know, cautiously and carefully, but
be willing to try new things andsee how they can potentially
improve.
You know things that you'vestruggled with your whole life
maybe.
Julia Blackwell (07:06):
Absolutely.
We live in a pretty incredibletime as far as the things that
are available.
The key is just needing todiscover it.
Yeah, do our own research andsearch around outside of the
options that we're given.
There's really, there's reallya lot of incredible things there
.
Nika Lawrie (07:26):
Definitely yeah.
So can you tell a little bitabout what fascia is and what
role it plays in the body?
I know basics it connects skinto muscle and muscle to bone.
But beyond that, what is it?
What is the real role that itplays in the body?
Julia Blackwell (07:42):
Yeah, great question.
So I think the easiest analogyis to envision fascia like
plastic wrap that wraps aroundevery single thing in the body.
So every muscle fiber, everymuscle group, every bone,
ligament, tendon, nerve, organ,blood vessel, literally
(08:03):
everything in our body iswrapped.
I can't live without it.
Yes, If it were to magicallydisappear out of your body, you
would go tumbling to the groundin a pile of bones and goo On
the side.
If everything else except foryour fascia were to disappear
out of your body, you wouldlargely still look like you.
So, that's how imperative it isfor our shape, our structure,
(08:27):
our posture, our texture even isbeing dictated by fascia.
But it does so much more thanthat.
It's like we have a bunch ofoil between those layers of
plastic wrap as well.
We have a very specializedwater within our fascia, called
extracellular fluid.
I don't want to go too heavilyinto science so that we don't
(08:50):
lose people here, but it's kindof like having a lot of oil
between all of those layers.
So fascia is what's actuallyallowing muscles and joints to
glide.
These things are not justmechanical functions, they're
actually more functions withinthe fascia.
So our ability to move freelyor not is dictated by how well
(09:12):
our fascia is able to glide.
It's also what allows us toabsorb shock well, through that
water.
That water is what's deeplyhydrating all of our tissue.
It's so much more than just howmuch water we're drinking.
And our fascia even has a keyproprioceptive element it can
(09:34):
actually communicate withinitself, outside of the nervous
system.
So it's this incredible secondcommunication network that we
have that is taking in so muchof the world around us.
And you know, based on ourlevels of stress and our past
traumas, surgeries, injuries,all of these things that are
(09:56):
essentially being logged by ourfascial system and it's going to
react depending on even justthe emotions of us on a daily
basis.
So it's playing so many rolesin the body.
Nika Lawrie (10:10):
Yeah, that's huge.
I mean, I think there's so manylittle pieces of the body that
you know we never hear about, wenever even think about, but
like literally make every partof our body function and without
it, you know, we completely,like you said, you know
disintegrate into bones and mushon the ground.
It's crazy how little thegeneral public really knows
(10:32):
about how the body works and howmany pieces are so critical to
everyday life.
You mentioned, you know, someof the different things that can
negatively impact fascia, liketrauma or surgery, those kind of
things.
What are some ways that we canidentify if we have damage to
our fascia?
(10:53):
Are there symptoms?
Are there, you know, thingsthat we might be feeling?
What is that?
How does that work?
Julia Blackwell (11:01):
Yeah, so any, really any type of ache or pain
in the body is a sign thatfascia somewhere is unhealthy.
Pain is a signal that our bodygives off when something is off
or when some type of a threathas been detected.
So there could be an emotionalcomponent to that, but there
(11:23):
could be a physical one as well.
Sometimes it's both.
It's really hard to separatethat mind-body connection and
how they react to each other.
Any struggle with mobility,like so many people think as
they get older oh I'm not asflexible as I used to be or I'm
not as mobile as I used to be.
(11:44):
It's not age, it's just thatmore time has passed for your
fascia to get in a moreunhealthy state and that can
fully be restored when you'vereleased fascia.
But you might feel sluggish.
You might feel sluggish, heavydense, you may have some brain
(12:06):
fog.
That could also be a sign ifyou get sick a lot.
So our lymphatic system lives inour superficial fascia.
That just means fascia closerto the surface of our skin.
The lymphatic system is like alow running hose through our
(12:34):
body, helping filter out toxinsand help our immune system in
all sorts of different ways.
But if you can imagine thatplastic wrap slowly shrinking
almost like a vacuum seal bag.
Everything within the vacuumseal bag is going to start
struggling to function correctly.
Vacuum seal bag is going tostart struggling to function
correctly, so that could bemobility and that's what could
(12:54):
be causing pain.
But if the lymphatic system,for example, is trapped in a lot
of tight fascia, it's likehaving a bunch of kinks in the
hose and now your body's notable to detox very effectively.
So you might have more bloating.
You might have again some typeof autoimmune condition or
feelings like you get sick a lot.
There's a lot of things thatyeah, it's the difference
(13:15):
between having an aquarium,let's say, that is turned on and
one that's turned off and it'sslowly growing algae.
Nika Lawrie (13:24):
Oh, it's a great analogy to kind of give you that
example.
I remember a long time ago Iwas learning about fascia and I
saw this guy talking about hehad like a pantyhose or
something on his hand and hepoked a hole in it and when he
stretched so the hole wasdamaged to the fascia right,
(13:48):
like a surgery or somethingright, and so it was just this
one single little spot.
But then when he pulled thepantyhose so like when you would
, you know, walk or move yourbody or whatever right, that
hole like you would think, inpantyhose, when it stretches out
and rips throughout thepantyhose.
That's kind of what washappening with the fascia too.
(14:08):
And so even though the traumahappened in one place, it could
then extend and stretch out.
That trauma stretches out, orthat damage to the fascia
stretches out to other parts ofthe body or a larger part of the
body, parts of the body or alarger part of the body.
Have you seen that happen?
Or is there, I guess?
(14:33):
Am I kind of correct in?
Julia Blackwell (14:34):
that analogy.
Does damage like that happen tothe fascia?
Well, damage is going to happento fascia through an injury you
know an impact injury, surgery,things like that but you're
right in that it will start tospread its effect to other
places.
So anytime I'm working withsomeone, we end up talking
(14:56):
pretty extensively about as manyinjuries as they can remember,
because even something that mayhave happened 10, 20, 30 years
ago could still be impactingyour body.
You know, so many of us we wakeup one day with shoulder pain,
or maybe our knee hurts afterone run and it sticks around for
(15:17):
a week and we're logging it inour minds like, oh yeah, that
really hurts, I don't knowwhat's going on.
And then after a couple of daysor a week it goes away and in
our mind we think, great, thatissue solved itself, High five
to me and move on with my life.
But the reality is, your bodyjust finds a way around the pain
(15:37):
that you're feeling and thatcreates a compensation pattern.
And so while you don'tnecessarily feel the pain
compensation pattern, and sowhile you don't necessarily feel
the pain, you're also notfeeling the compensation pattern
.
That is happening.
And when you add up all kinds ofthings that you may have
experienced in your life, all ofthese things that we didn't
feel like addressing or wethought went away on their own.
(15:58):
Those things build up.
Our fascia is logging, all ofthese slight changes in our
movement or all of thesedifferent patterns that they may
be firing muscles and we end upone day with pain.
You know that's super common.
Someone throws out their back.
Or they get up one day andtheir knees just has exploded
(16:19):
with pain and they think, well,I don't understand what I did.
I just bent down to tie my shoethat one time.
Or I just got out of bed onemorning and this happened.
But the reality is it's amovement that you likely did
hundreds, if not hundreds ofthousands of times until the
body finally was like we can'tdo this anymore.
It's not safe to move this waybecause of this tension pattern
(16:42):
or this compensation patternthat's about to fail.
Nika Lawrie (16:45):
So what do we do when we hit those points?
How do we start repairing it or, you know, really supporting
the overall health of the fascia?
Julia Blackwell (16:55):
have 10 hours to rant about the typical rest
recommendation that most doctorsgive out.
Well, that's certainlysomething you should do.
(17:20):
If you've had an impact injury,right Like you fell off your
mountain bike or you were in acar accident, you should rest
for a couple days.
That's for sure what needs tohappen.
But in order for our fascia torestore that glide and become
more hydrated, movement is sucha key component, and I really
don't mean a hard workout.
It can be hanging from a bar,twisting your torso side to side
(17:44):
, tilting your neck side to side, your arms over your head
Really any type of movement isgoing to help the fascial system
and help it rehydrate.
But most of what I focus on withmy work specifically where I'm
teaching people how to releasefascia, we want to come at it
with two main principles.
(18:05):
So number one is how we releasefascia.
So I've found through my ownexperience when I discovered
this work as well as workingwith you know, like a thousand
people or so at this point in mycareer, that we need to come at
fascia with a specificcombination, and that
(18:25):
combination is compression andthen active movement.
So we're all familiar withcompression.
That's maybe something some ofus are already doing where we're
like oh, my shoulder hurts,I'll laying there on the ball
for 10 minutes, or even goingand getting a massage and you
(18:56):
lay there and let someone elsetry to make change to your body.
It takes so much longer to seeany results from a passive
treatment.
For me personally, I never sawresults from it, and I've seen
that very often with my clientsas well.
The active movement is soimportant because we're not only
(19:18):
engaging the nervous system butwe're also engaging that
communication system within ourfascia, and so as we choose to
move our body through a certainrange of motion while an area is
compressed, it's going tostretch our fascia in a more
three-dimensional way.
(19:38):
For one, you know your typicalstatic stretch.
Let's take a hamstring stretch,for example.
You throw your leg up on a boxor whatever you've got and lean
forward.
It's only stretching in oneplane of motion.
So when we compress an area andactively move, we're now
stretching it in a much morethree-dimensional way because we
(19:59):
have layer and layer and layerof fascia.
But we're also communicatingwith our fascia and our nervous
system that it's actually safeto access certain ranges of
motion again and that we canrepattern a poor movement that
we've been doing over and overagain.
So that is really the mainthing that not only changes
(20:20):
fascia quickly, but it keeps itin that new position for a much
longer period of time.
That's been one of the mostcommon compliments I've received
.
Sharing this work over the yearsis like I can't believe how
long I'm feeling better.
I'll do a fascia releasesession and either the pain is
(20:43):
totally gone and it stays gone,or they feel great for days or
weeks before they may have tohit it again.
You know it's very dependent onthe person, but it's certainly
a much more powerful way tocreate fast and lasting change.
And then the second principleis we need to know where to
(21:07):
release fascia.
Yeah, this is where you mayhave to become a bit more of a
detective in your own body,although I also help people all
the time uncover these patterns,because, while everyone is
unique, we all have our ownmovement patterns and life
experiences and trauma there arecertain patterns that tend to
(21:30):
persist in the majority ofpeople and, unfortunately, where
we feel pain is almost neverthe problem I mean, it's similar
in the nutrition world.
Right, people are having allthese symptoms.
Maybe they're attaching it toone thing.
It's a totally different thingwhen you look for the root cause
.
Right, yeah, it can take alittle bit of work, but the
(21:51):
where is so important and that'swhat makes this work seem
almost like magic.
Sometimes.
As soon as you know where to go, it changes everything.
So a good example is low backpain.
We all think, okay, my low backhurts, I need a massage on my
back, I need to go get adjustedin my back, maybe I'll even foam
(22:14):
roll my back.
But the issue is almost alwayscoming from tension in the
fascia on the opposite side ofour body, in the quads, in the
core, maybe even the adductors.
That fascial line through theadductors actually goes up
through the core.
So those things end up making ahuge and significant difference
to back pain and it's somethingthat no one goes there.
(22:38):
They think they're tight, theythink it's a back problem and
those are really the last placesI would ever go for someone
with back pain.
So when you start to understandthis system of pulleys and the
balance that our body wants usto have, when we can restore
(22:59):
that balance in our fascialtissue, pain goes away, mobility
is restored, things become morehydrated, we can move a lot
more easily.
There's so many incrediblehealth benefits that come from
just going, exploring andfinding the right places that
are contributing the most to theissues that you have.
Nika Lawrie (23:18):
Yeah, you know, while you're speaking I'm
thinking of I have a familymember who's been struggling
with mobility recently and thisfamily member has also been
trying to get their health backin order.
So struggling with, like weightand diabetes and things like
that, you know, and thatperson's really motivated, but
(23:42):
the pain that the person feels,mobility wise, you know that
being able to get up and movehinders the ability to go
exercise or do things different,and it just makes me think, you
know, maybe if there's supportfor the fascia, healing that
pain, that can help overallhealth too, because it will
allow people to not struggle asmuch and then, you know,
(24:04):
approach other aspects of theirhealth once they're feeling
better or have reduced thatoverall pain.
Julia Blackwell (24:16):
Oh my gosh, absolutely.
That's such a great part aboutthis type of fascia release is
you can get a type of movementin without it being an actual
workout and then eventually it'sgoing to support you working
out either without pain or justworking out with more efficiency
.
In general, I've had, you know,I've worked with some
professional athletes over theyears that they couldn't run
faster than a certain amount oftime or they were struggling
(24:39):
with agility, pushing past acertain weight in their squat,
whatever it was.
Once they had more space intheir fascia, they were actually
able to push past that plateau.
So there's also a lot ofincredible benefits for the
performance side of things.
I just you know most people.
(25:00):
You know someone that issuffering from either chronic
pain or some type of limitationthat's preventing them from
working out.
Nika Lawrie (25:08):
So I mostly help people get through that initial
phase of how can we relieve thepain and make you feel good
while you things that you wantto do and that's the you know,
that's the key is, like you,really just I think all of us
who kind of work in this healthand wellness industry, like all
we want to do is help peoplefeel good and thrive, like that
is the ultimate goal, and sofiguring out how to really
(25:30):
support that is, you know,golden, I guess.
Julia Blackwell (25:36):
I mean, think about what you're faced with on
or with going to a doctor, right?
They're pretty much going togive you the same options.
They're going to recommend PT,and it really depends on the
physical therapist.
I certainly don't want todiscourage anyone from going to
PT, because it can be incredible, but I've also seen more people
(25:58):
than I can possibly count comefrom like six months to a year
or more of PT and they haven'thad any real lasting results.
But that's kind of a differentconversation.
It's the where right, Like ifyou're going to for knee pain
and they're only working on yourknee to strengthen your knee,
they're not looking at the bigpicture and finding what is the
(26:20):
root cause.
But coming back to that, though, they'll recommend PT, they may
try to give you a cortisoneshot, PT.
They may try to give you acortisone shot which is
silencing your body's messagesto you, and there's some pretty
significant side effects tocortisone shots out there.
You know, one, two, three.
(26:51):
Maybe it's not a huge deal, butonce you get past three,
cortisone will actually start tokill your fascial tissue and
once it is not be restored andpeople that get cortisone shots
in the same place over and overand over again.
Um is is actually.
It has a lot of negativeeffects that are going to damage
your tissue, and not enoughdoctors are warning people that
this is a as a side effect, orrather it's inevitable, it's
going to happen with a lot ofconsistency.
(27:15):
Or, lastly, they will mayberecommend some pain pills, and
all of these options are prettypoor in my opinion, and so we
just need to open up thepossibility of oh, how can I
start to find out what is theroot cause myself?
What happens when I work on myquads for my low back pain?
(27:37):
What happens when I work on thecalf and the hamstring for my
plantar fasciitis?
Our body gives us suchincredible feedback, and our
whole industry is about how wesilence our body from giving us
feedback.
It's wild.
Nika Lawrie (27:55):
Yeah, I know that that piece always blows my mind
is like, you know, symptoms aremessages from the body.
You know, like our bodies don'tjust break for the sake of
breaking, like there's somethingcausing it.
And when you're feeling pain ordiscomfort or you're having,
you know, bowel issues orwhatever it is like that is a
(28:18):
message from the body that hey,there's an issue, let's address
it, let's fix it.
And then you go to.
You know, I feel bad toobecause I was kind of bashed on
the typical medical system, andI don't mean to because there
was kind of bashed on thetypical medical system, and I
don't mean to because there's somuch value that comes from that
too.
But we miss the fact thataddressing that root cause,
(28:39):
getting to you know the specificthing that's causing the pain
or the symptom, that's how youfix it.
You don't shut up the messenger, you listen to the messenger
and you follow it to the actualcause and then you support the
cause and that's how you getbetter.
So I think it's so key there.
Yeah, sorry.
Julia Blackwell (28:57):
Go ahead.
I was going to say I have nojudgment for that.
I spent 23 years of my lifeignoring my arm and
disconnecting from my body anddoing the exact same thing so
many people have done.
So there's certainly everyone'sdone it.
Nika Lawrie (29:13):
Yeah, yeah.
Julia Blackwell (29:13):
It's like there's certainly no judgment in
it.
Uh, the key is just tounderstand.
The medical system is soexceptional at certain things,
but understanding when is thetime and place to utilize the
magic that's there.
And unfortunately we've reallydropped the ball when it comes
(29:34):
to chronic pain.
There's just not a lot ofeducation or really time
available to help someonediscover that root cause.
You can understand that hey, mydoctor isn't trained in fascia
and understand what mechanicalissues or fascial issues might
(29:56):
be going on within the entiretyof my body.
Then you don't have to judgethem for giving you poor advice.
That's just what they know andit's not their field of genius.
Let's call it so.
That's where we need to go findother ways to solve a problem
that we know is not as simple asthrowing some ice on it or just
(30:17):
popping some pain pills thefascia.
Nika Lawrie (30:19):
What role does just being properly hydrated, like
drinking enough water, what roledoes that play in overall
fascia health?
Julia Blackwell (30:36):
So I know I've been throwing a lot of analogies
at you, but our fascia is alsolike a water irrigation system.
There's some really cool videosyou can look up on YouTube
where, when they're looking atfascia on a microscopic level,
you see all these littlecrisscrossing fibers.
You can see little beads ofwater traveling along the fibers
(30:58):
.
That's water being carried toliterally every cell and tissue
in our body, and so we have tohave space within our fascia for
hydration to travel.
So I've talked to so manypeople over the years that say
oh, I know, I just need to drinkmore water.
(31:18):
You've probably said it, I'vesaid it.
That's right.
Where we think the issue issimply that we're not drinking
enough water.
But the reality is it's uselessto drink more water if it's not
actually getting to where itneeds to go.
(31:45):
Yeah, every 30 minutes in orderfor water to get to where it
needs to go, one, like we weresaying before, the movement
component is so important.
You know, every 45, 50 minutesit would be ideal for you to
stand, move your body around,even for two minutes.
(32:06):
Again, it doesn't have to be aworkout, but just move your body
, try to twist and stretch allkinds of different ways more
than just walking, althoughwalking is great too.
That's going to help a ton ofgetting those water little
droplets everywhere, but thenreleasing fascia as well.
So if you think about acrumpled up ball of plastic wrap
(32:29):
, if you dumped a bottle ofwater over it, how much water is
going to get to the inside ofthat crumpled up ball of plastic
wrap?
Nika Lawrie (32:36):
Yeah, not too much.
Julia Blackwell (32:37):
Yeah, so by strategically releasing these
areas of our fascia that feelsore, tight, tender and strange
texture, you know if it feelsreally ropey or stringy, if it
feels lumpy, like you've gotsome muscle knots which, by the
way, are just fascia knots,they're not really muscle,
they're mostly gut.
I was going to ask that, yeah,but that's a sign that, hey, the
(33:02):
texture there is more like acrinkled up ball of plastic wrap
.
So how can we release it andthen allow water and blood flow
to go rushing back in to hydratethese places?
So, of course, we need to bedrinking water, ideally, you
know, good quality water withminerals.
I'm sure you have a lot moreadvice that you could say on
(33:23):
water to be putting in your body, but again, ultimately it has
to be able to get to thoseplaces, and so movement and fast
release, I think, are just asimportant as drinking water
itself.
Nika Lawrie (33:36):
Totally makes sense .
Yeah, I think you know a lot oftimes with the water.
I mean, most Americanschronically are dehydrated.
I think there's a very small Idon't know what the exact number
is but there's a very smallpercentage of Americans that are
actually fully hydrated most ofthe time, especially those that
(33:56):
live in more kind of hot, aridareas.
I know I live in New Mexico.
It's desert here, it's sun 360days a year pretty much, and so
most people are dehydrated.
And then thinking about takingin the water, a lot of times
people actually need someelectrolytes with it.
So putting a little tiny bit ofsalt in with your water, you'd
(34:17):
be surprised it doesn't tastelike salty water.
If it does, you're putting toomuch in, just a little, you know
, a little tiny bit there makingsure that you're getting
electrolytes that you need forthe body, and a lot of that can
actually come from eating justfruits and vegetables and eating
healthy, nutritious food too.
But if you don't have thosefactors, the water's not going
to kind of absorb into the cellsthat you need either.
Julia Blackwell (34:39):
Yeah, that's great advice.
Electrolytes or eating yourwater, essentially.
Nika Lawrie (34:46):
You'd be surprised how much water we actually get
from the food that we eat, orthat we're supposed to get from
the food that we eat.
Definitely, yeah, supposed to.
Yeah, yeah, um, do you notice,um, any difference between, um
fashion issues with male versusfemale, or does it tend to be
pretty even across the genders?
Julia Blackwell (35:08):
Oh, that's an interesting question.
Um, what I will say is I'venoticed and I apologize to any
of the men listening to this Ido find that women handle the
possible intensity of fasciarelease much better than men do.
(35:29):
It's not necessarily tighter,and I wonder it could be
hormones.
Us women have hormones that areready to go through the
intensity of childbirth andthings like that I don't know if
that's playing a role.
Nika Lawrie (35:41):
We're just known for handling pain a little bit
better, but yeah.
Julia Blackwell (35:45):
Yeah, I think that's really interesting.
But overall, a lot of us have asignificant amount of tension
and, honestly, more and more,especially in the post-COVID
time, there's a lot more tensionthat I think is coming from
stress and the collective traumathat we've all experienced.
I've really noticed that in thelast four years, where it's
(36:10):
taking just a little bit longerfor the results to happen and
there's some resetting of fascia, more so than I ever used to
see in the previous, you know,eight years, and I'm very
curious to know what emotionaland mental effects have happened
(36:33):
to fascia in everyone's bodysince this time.
I will say that I've noticedjust a general increase in
tension for everyone across theboard.
Nika Lawrie (36:43):
Yeah, yeah, definitely I've heard, or I
guess not heard but I'm curious.
You know how the body is knownto remember trauma.
Like we've gone through notnecessarily a physical trauma
but an emotional trauma, and thebody, the cells, can tend to
remember what that trauma is.
And unless you really workthrough that trauma and release
(37:06):
it from your body, it can have aripple effect on your health.
And I'm curious how and you maynot know, I'm kind of just
speaking but I'm curious howthat could potentially affect
fascia too.
Like is that emotional trauma?
So you know, like when we feelstressed, we get that pain in
(37:26):
the back of our shoulders and,you know, in our muscles I'm
doing air quotes for thoselistening right and you're like
it's not the muscle knots, it'sthe fascia knots.
And I'm curious, you know, ifthere's ever any research on
emotional trauma versus fasciapain and fascia knots and
overall issues in that area?
Julia Blackwell (37:47):
Yeah, great question.
There definitely is someresearch on that.
So our fascia is filled withfree nerve endings and those
things called proprioceptorsthat I mentioned just briefly
towards the beginning of thisconversation, which are these
little receptors that areconstantly taking in data about
(38:10):
both our external and internalenvironment.
It's just one consistentfeedback loop.
So it's essentially how we makesense of where our body is in
space.
It's letting us know where weneed to move our body, how much
force to use, how much effort touse, but it's also taking a lot
(38:33):
of stock of what our internalenvironment is saying.
So if we're stressed, if we'veexperienced trauma really you
know they've done a lot ofstudies, mostly on people with
PTSD but all of that feedbackthat those proprioceptors are
getting, the fascia is going torespond according to what that
(38:53):
feedback is.
And so if anything in ourexternal or internal environment
is saying that there's a threat, so you know that could be a
real physical thing, likefalling off your mountain bike,
or it could be an internal thingof being, you know, dreading
going to work or beingchronically anxious any of those
(39:16):
types of things fascia is goingto respond to that.
So they've most consistentlyseen that fascia starts to
become dense, it thickens, itthickens.
So just like we were kind oftalking about with the vacuum
seal bag, if fascia starts tothicken and become really dense,
(39:41):
it's going to be hard fornerves to fire effectively, it's
hard for muscles to glideeasily, it's going to be hard
for our lymphatic system to flow.
There's all these repercussionsfor fascia responding to,
essentially, a threat that neverpasses, because with anxiety,
ptsd, things like that, thatfear, that state of fear, the
(40:01):
brain doesn't always understandwhen that threat has fully
passed.
And so we have specific cellswithin our fascia that can
contract independently of muscleand it's not going to be as
strong of a contraction.
You know, we've all flexed ourbicep and we can feel that
muscle contraction, right, butyou may not feel your fascia
(40:23):
contracting, but it can.
It can get stuck in thatcontracted state and then that
will create that density overtime.
So really, every thought,feeling, emotion, experience
you've ever had has passedthrough your fascial system, has
been logged by thoseproprioceptors and then it has
(40:43):
responded accordingly.
So one of my old mentors usedto say fascia is like the paper
that your life story is writtenon.
So all all of those things thathave happened to you in your
life.
They live in your body and thenwhen we don't do much to address
them or we don't know how, uh,those types of things build up
(41:06):
and they very commonly lead tonot just pain but, like you were
inferring, some real healthside effects, things that you
think are completely physical orunrelated.
We're like, oh well, I'm justhaving stomach aches or I'm just
having these symptoms likeautoimmune things, but the
(41:28):
reality is that could actuallybe from emotions and trauma that
are living in our fascia.
Still that energy hasn't beenreleased.
You know, nothing can flow.
The energy, the blood flow, thewater, all of the emotion,
whatever it is, is just stuck.
Nika Lawrie (41:45):
Yeah, yeah, I think .
Yeah, I mean releasing thatenergy is so key to all parts of
health.
It's, you know, it's reallyunderstanding, you know letting
things good in and kind ofletting that out, and I think
that works for basically everypart of our health emotionally,
physically, spiritually, howeveryou want to approach it.
(42:07):
But yeah, it's a big thing.
Julia, I have one more questionfor you, but before I get to
that question so I guess I havethree more questions for you,
but one key question Is thereanything else that we haven't
touched on that you would liketo share?
And then, where can people findyou and connect with you and
get your resources?
Julia Blackwell (42:27):
Wow.
Well, we've shared a lot, sonothing is coming to mind of
like, oh, oh, my gosh, we haveto talk about this.
Okay, good, oh, you know, maybeI'll say this.
So we've talked a lot about howto release fascia with the
compression and active movement.
To expand on that just a littlebit, I mostly teach people how
to do that type of fasciarelease work with tools like
(42:50):
foam rollers and massage balls.
So they're likely tools thatyou already have.
You maybe just don't know howto use them, or they're
collecting dust in a closetsomewhere, or you have access to
them at the gym.
Those tools are so valuable.
The problem is that most peopleteach you that you're just going
to roll around on the ball orroll around on the roller, and
(43:11):
there's a much more strategicway to utilize that active
movement and really get the fulleffect of releasing fascia if
you just do it a slightlydifferent way.
So, kind of in that same vein,I have a online video library
called Roller Remedy that showsyou how to release any area in
(43:34):
the body.
I think there's over 45techniques from head to toe in
there, as well as pain-specificprograms that are following a
lot of the pain patterns that Ialluded to.
So if you're not sure how totackle your neck pain, your
elbow pain, your sciatica, yourplantar fasciitis, really most
things that people have I haveprograms in there as well.
So I have a free seven-daytrial of that roller remedy
(43:59):
program.
If you go to movementbyjuliacomslash podcast, I have a special
seven-day trial that you guyscan try if you want to see how
it feels and see what thedifference can be when you
release fascia correctly and inthe correct areas.
Nika Lawrie (44:19):
That's huge.
I'll make sure I link to thatin the show notes too, just to
make it.
And I noticed for those who arelistening on the podcast,
behind Julia is a wall full offoam rollers and the balls too.
Yeah, so I'm glad you, I'm gladyou mentioned that.
Definitely so, Julia.
My, my last question for youtoday what is something and
(44:41):
you've kind of already touchedon this with your story, but if
you have a different one, that's, that's great too but what is
something that you'veexperienced that was really
life-changing, that you'veeither learned or experienced it
can be either that you wouldlike to pass on to others to
help inspire them.
Julia Blackwell (44:58):
Well, I certainly would say I'm just
going to keep hammering thishome.
If you've been experiencingsomething that it seems like
nothing has been able to helpand you feel really hopeless, I
totally understand.
I've been there.
But there are ways to find areal solution and it may simply
(45:19):
be that you're in the wrongplace.
So I really encourage you tomake a move.
You know, living life with painand discomfort is a really
lonely place to be.
I spent a lot of my lifefeeling like I was trapped in a
box and, while I still have somelimitations, I've also been
(45:44):
able to solve my own bouts ofknee pain, low back pain, neck
pain in a matter of days.
Because I know this work, I'vebeen able to really come out of
my shell and do things thatyounger me would have not even
dreamed of, because of the wayI've been able to let so much of
(46:05):
this physical and emotionaltrauma go through vascular
release as well.
So I just encourage people tokeep on it.
There is a solution.
It's just again, maybe you'renot in the right spot at this
moment.
Nika Lawrie (46:18):
Yeah Well, I love all the information you've
shared today and I love yourstory.
It really is beautiful to comefrom pain at birth and kind of
struggle with this your wholelife and to really do whatever
you can to work through it.
But not only do that foryourself, but now you're helping
other people.
(46:39):
That is such a beautiful thingto do and inspiring, and I just
want to thank you and commend toyou for doing that work.
So it's beautiful.
Thank you so much.
Yeah Well, julia, thank you forcoming on the show.
I really appreciate it.
Julia Blackwell (46:52):
Thank you.
Welcome to the Inspired with Nika Larie podcast
.
Julia Blackwell, welcome to theshow.
I'm so happy to have you heretoday.
Hi, I'm so grateful to be here.
Yeah, so we're going to dothings a little bit different on
the show today.
I know a lot of times we talkabout nutrition and kind of
(00:28):
functional medicine and stuff,but I think this is a really key
part that a lot of times, Idon't get to discuss with
clients or with my audience onthe podcast.
I'm excited to have you herebecause it's such an important
part of our body.
We're going to talk aboutfascia and kind of how to take
care of it and how healing itcan really improve a lot of
different aspects of our lives.
(00:49):
Before we get into all of that,though, can you tell me a
little bit about your backstory?
Who are you?
What led you into beinginterested in fascia?
Julia Blackwell (00:59):
Yeah, well, I've been doing fascia release
here around the Denver Coloradoarea for 11 or 12 years.
At this point it's been aminute, yeah, and you know I've
certainly been enjoying thescenery here.
I do a lot of mountain climbingand rock climbing and running
(01:19):
around with my dogs and helpingpeople heal from pain and
improve their mobility, improvetheir general health all across
the board.
But yeah, the story of how Igot into this is lifelong
actually.
So I was almost a 10-pound baby.
Nika Lawrie (01:40):
Oh my goodness, I know yeah.
Julia Blackwell (01:43):
Starting strong in in the process of being born
I got stuck.
So when they pulled me out, thedoctor ended up stretching and
tearing most of the nerves in myright shoulder.
Nika Lawrie (01:56):
I'm so sorry.
Julia Blackwell (01:59):
That is, it's my, it's my journey, you know
yeah.
Nika Lawrie (02:01):
Yeah, in a way it's kind of a good thing because it
leads you know, that traumaleads to positive things for a
lot of people sometimes.
So absolutely.
Julia Blackwell (02:09):
It took me a while to get there, yeah, but uh
, you know, I did have a nerveregraft surgery when I was about
four months old and that didhelp bring my arm somewhat back
online, if you will.
It really was the lowestpossible functioning arm at all,
but I was still left with a lotof limited mobility all
(02:34):
throughout my arm, my shoulder,my elbow, everything in that
section, and so much incessanttightness.
And I grew up going through thestandard Western medicine
system.
So many of us have the sameroundabout story.
But I went from doctor todoctor, practitioner to
(02:55):
practitioner, and reallyeveryone told me that there was
nothing further that they coulddo for me, that the limited
strength, the limited mobility,the tightness was just going to
be a part of my life forever and, if anything, I should prepare
for it to get worse over time.
And when you hear these types ofthings from people of authority
(03:18):
, you believe them, especiallywhen you're younger and you're
not any different, especiallywhen you're younger and you're
not any different.
So while I did fully believe inmany ways that nothing was ever
going to change for me, I stillwas fascinated by the body.
I wanted to understand as muchas I could about myself and my
(03:39):
limitations, and so I stilltried all kinds of different
things.
So I went to massage therapists, I went to chiropractors, I did
acupuncture, physical therapy,bought just about any tool or
gadget that you can think of tojust see if anything would help,
(03:59):
but truly nothing gave melasting relief, if anything
helped at all.
Nika Lawrie (04:05):
Yeah.
Julia Blackwell (04:06):
So it wasn't until I moved out to Boulder,
colorado, in 2010.
And by some beautiful, fatefulchance, I met this lady who did
a specific type of fasciarelease work, and I'd heard
fascia mentioned.
I went to school for exercisephysiology because of my you
(04:26):
know obsession with anatomy andunderstanding the body, but they
had mentioned fascia in a waythat was very fleeting, like hey
, this is what connects tendonsand ligaments to bone, and they
moved on for the most part.
So I was very unsure about whatexactly this fascia work was
(04:48):
going to do and, just likeeverything else I had tried, I
really had no expectations atall for it.
But this work took me bycomplete surprise.
I knew very quickly that thiswas different from anything else
that I had done before, and Isaw more results in just the
feel, the function and even thelook of my arm in three months
(05:12):
than I had in a lifetime ofdoing all these other
traditional methods.
It was incredible.
I had emotional releases, I hadmuscles started to fire again.
I finally started getting somerelief from this tension that I
was feeling.
It was so powerful and, whileit didn't completely eradicate
this issue and I'm still workingon it it's unbelievably better,
(05:37):
especially for something that Iwas told was never, ever going
to change.
Yeah, was never, ever going tochange.
So I pivoted almost immediatelyinto learning everything I could
about fascia and startedlearning some different
modalities that were similar towhat I had experienced, and I
started to see the same resultsfor all of these other people.
(06:00):
It was almost miraculous attimes.
So many people that, like me,had tried all of the typical
things that we're told to do orthat we think are our only
options.
This was the missing piece forthem as well.
So it's been a really funjourney and I'm so glad I'm here
and I've really enjoyed helpingother people understand that
(06:23):
there are answers for thingsthat they've been told there are
no answers for.
Nika Lawrie (06:27):
Absolutely.
I mean such a powerful story.
I know.
You know I talked to so manypeople and they have it's always
a different thing that they youknow an ailment or a struggle
that they've had, but it'salways that piece where you know
they kind of went outside thebox a little bit, they opened up
themselves to you knowpotentially a new option that
might work, and then bam, itchanges everything for them,
(06:49):
right.
And so I think that's such akey component of your story and
others is be willing to you know, cautiously and carefully, but
be willing to try new things andsee how they can potentially
improve.
You know things that you'vestruggled with your whole life
maybe.
Julia Blackwell (07:06):
Absolutely.
We live in a pretty incredibletime as far as the things that
are available.
The key is just needing todiscover it.
Yeah, do our own research andsearch around outside of the
options that we're given.
There's really, there's reallya lot of incredible things there
.
Nika Lawrie (07:26):
Definitely yeah.
So can you tell a little bitabout what fascia is and what
role it plays in the body?
I know basics it connects skinto muscle and muscle to bone.
But beyond that, what is it?
What is the real role that itplays in the body?
Julia Blackwell (07:42):
Yeah, great question.
So I think the easiest analogyis to envision fascia like
plastic wrap that wraps aroundevery single thing in the body.
So every muscle fiber, everymuscle group, every bone,
ligament, tendon, nerve, organ,blood vessel, literally
(08:03):
everything in our body iswrapped.
I can't live without it.
Yes, If it were to magicallydisappear out of your body, you
would go tumbling to the groundin a pile of bones and goo On
the side.
If everything else except foryour fascia were to disappear
out of your body, you wouldlargely still look like you.
So, that's how imperative it isfor our shape, our structure,
(08:27):
our posture, our texture even isbeing dictated by fascia.
But it does so much more thanthat.
It's like we have a bunch ofoil between those layers of
plastic wrap as well.
We have a very specializedwater within our fascia, called
extracellular fluid.
I don't want to go too heavilyinto science so that we don't
(08:50):
lose people here, but it's kindof like having a lot of oil
between all of those layers.
So fascia is what's actuallyallowing muscles and joints to
glide.
These things are not justmechanical functions, they're
actually more functions withinthe fascia.
So our ability to move freelyor not is dictated by how well
(09:12):
our fascia is able to glide.
It's also what allows us toabsorb shock well, through that
water.
That water is what's deeplyhydrating all of our tissue.
It's so much more than just howmuch water we're drinking.
And our fascia even has a keyproprioceptive element it can
(09:34):
actually communicate withinitself, outside of the nervous
system.
So it's this incredible secondcommunication network that we
have that is taking in so muchof the world around us.
And you know, based on ourlevels of stress and our past
traumas, surgeries, injuries,all of these things that are
(09:56):
essentially being logged by ourfascial system and it's going to
react depending on even justthe emotions of us on a daily
basis.
So it's playing so many rolesin the body.
Nika Lawrie (10:10):
Yeah, that's huge.
I mean, I think there's so manylittle pieces of the body that
you know we never hear about, wenever even think about, but
like literally make every partof our body function and without
it, you know, we completely,like you said, you know
disintegrate into bones and mushon the ground.
It's crazy how little thegeneral public really knows
(10:32):
about how the body works and howmany pieces are so critical to
everyday life.
You mentioned, you know, someof the different things that can
negatively impact fascia, liketrauma or surgery, those kind of
things.
What are some ways that we canidentify if we have damage to
our fascia?
(10:53):
Are there symptoms?
Are there, you know, thingsthat we might be feeling?
What is that?
How does that work?
Julia Blackwell (11:01):
Yeah, so any, really any type of ache or pain
in the body is a sign thatfascia somewhere is unhealthy.
Pain is a signal that our bodygives off when something is off
or when some type of a threathas been detected.
So there could be an emotionalcomponent to that, but there
(11:23):
could be a physical one as well.
Sometimes it's both.
It's really hard to separatethat mind-body connection and
how they react to each other.
Any struggle with mobility,like so many people think as
they get older oh I'm not asflexible as I used to be or I'm
not as mobile as I used to be.
(11:44):
It's not age, it's just thatmore time has passed for your
fascia to get in a moreunhealthy state and that can
fully be restored when you'vereleased fascia.
But you might feel sluggish.
You might feel sluggish, heavydense, you may have some brain
(12:06):
fog.
That could also be a sign ifyou get sick a lot.
So our lymphatic system lives inour superficial fascia.
That just means fascia closerto the surface of our skin.
The lymphatic system is like alow running hose through our
(12:34):
body, helping filter out toxinsand help our immune system in
all sorts of different ways.
But if you can imagine thatplastic wrap slowly shrinking
almost like a vacuum seal bag.
Everything within the vacuumseal bag is going to start
struggling to function correctly.
Vacuum seal bag is going tostart struggling to function
correctly, so that could bemobility and that's what could
(12:54):
be causing pain.
But if the lymphatic system,for example, is trapped in a lot
of tight fascia, it's likehaving a bunch of kinks in the
hose and now your body's notable to detox very effectively.
So you might have more bloating.
You might have again some typeof autoimmune condition or
feelings like you get sick a lot.
There's a lot of things thatyeah, it's the difference
(13:15):
between having an aquarium,let's say, that is turned on and
one that's turned off and it'sslowly growing algae.
Nika Lawrie (13:24):
Oh, it's a great analogy to kind of give you that
example.
I remember a long time ago Iwas learning about fascia and I
saw this guy talking about hehad like a pantyhose or
something on his hand and hepoked a hole in it and when he
stretched so the hole wasdamaged to the fascia right,
(13:48):
like a surgery or somethingright, and so it was just this
one single little spot.
But then when he pulled thepantyhose so like when you would
, you know, walk or move yourbody or whatever right, that
hole like you would think, inpantyhose, when it stretches out
and rips throughout thepantyhose.
That's kind of what washappening with the fascia too.
(14:08):
And so even though the traumahappened in one place, it could
then extend and stretch out.
That trauma stretches out, orthat damage to the fascia
stretches out to other parts ofthe body or a larger part of the
body, parts of the body or alarger part of the body.
Have you seen that happen?
Or is there, I guess?
(14:33):
Am I kind of correct in?
Julia Blackwell (14:34):
that analogy.
Does damage like that happen tothe fascia?
Well, damage is going to happento fascia through an injury you
know an impact injury, surgery,things like that but you're
right in that it will start tospread its effect to other
places.
So anytime I'm working withsomeone, we end up talking
(14:56):
pretty extensively about as manyinjuries as they can remember,
because even something that mayhave happened 10, 20, 30 years
ago could still be impactingyour body.
You know, so many of us we wakeup one day with shoulder pain,
or maybe our knee hurts afterone run and it sticks around for
(15:17):
a week and we're logging it inour minds like, oh yeah, that
really hurts, I don't knowwhat's going on.
And then after a couple of daysor a week it goes away and in
our mind we think, great, thatissue solved itself, High five
to me and move on with my life.
But the reality is, your bodyjust finds a way around the pain
(15:37):
that you're feeling and thatcreates a compensation pattern.
And so while you don'tnecessarily feel the pain
compensation pattern, and sowhile you don't necessarily feel
the pain, you're also notfeeling the compensation pattern
.
That is happening.
And when you add up all kinds ofthings that you may have
experienced in your life, all ofthese things that we didn't
feel like addressing or wethought went away on their own.
(15:58):
Those things build up.
Our fascia is logging, all ofthese slight changes in our
movement or all of thesedifferent patterns that they may
be firing muscles and we end upone day with pain.
You know that's super common.
Someone throws out their back.
Or they get up one day andtheir knees just has exploded
(16:19):
with pain and they think, well,I don't understand what I did.
I just bent down to tie my shoethat one time.
Or I just got out of bed onemorning and this happened.
But the reality is it's amovement that you likely did
hundreds, if not hundreds ofthousands of times until the
body finally was like we can'tdo this anymore.
It's not safe to move this waybecause of this tension pattern
(16:42):
or this compensation patternthat's about to fail.
Nika Lawrie (16:45):
So what do we do when we hit those points?
How do we start repairing it or, you know, really supporting
the overall health of the fascia?
Julia Blackwell (16:55):
have 10 hours to rant about the typical rest
recommendation that most doctorsgive out.
Well, that's certainlysomething you should do.
(17:20):
If you've had an impact injury,right Like you fell off your
mountain bike or you were in acar accident, you should rest
for a couple days.
That's for sure what needs tohappen.
But in order for our fascia torestore that glide and become
more hydrated, movement is sucha key component, and I really
don't mean a hard workout.
It can be hanging from a bar,twisting your torso side to side
(17:44):
, tilting your neck side to side, your arms over your head
Really any type of movement isgoing to help the fascial system
and help it rehydrate.
But most of what I focus on withmy work specifically where I'm
teaching people how to releasefascia, we want to come at it
with two main principles.
(18:05):
So number one is how we releasefascia.
So I've found through my ownexperience when I discovered
this work as well as workingwith you know, like a thousand
people or so at this point in mycareer, that we need to come at
fascia with a specificcombination, and that
(18:25):
combination is compression andthen active movement.
So we're all familiar withcompression.
That's maybe something some ofus are already doing where we're
like oh, my shoulder hurts,I'll laying there on the ball
for 10 minutes, or even goingand getting a massage and you
(18:56):
lay there and let someone elsetry to make change to your body.
It takes so much longer to seeany results from a passive
treatment.
For me personally, I never sawresults from it, and I've seen
that very often with my clientsas well.
The active movement is soimportant because we're not only
(19:18):
engaging the nervous system butwe're also engaging that
communication system within ourfascia, and so as we choose to
move our body through a certainrange of motion while an area is
compressed, it's going tostretch our fascia in a more
three-dimensional way.
(19:38):
For one, you know your typicalstatic stretch.
Let's take a hamstring stretch,for example.
You throw your leg up on a boxor whatever you've got and lean
forward.
It's only stretching in oneplane of motion.
So when we compress an area andactively move, we're now
stretching it in a much morethree-dimensional way because we
(19:59):
have layer and layer and layerof fascia.
But we're also communicatingwith our fascia and our nervous
system that it's actually safeto access certain ranges of
motion again and that we canrepattern a poor movement that
we've been doing over and overagain.
So that is really the mainthing that not only changes
(20:20):
fascia quickly, but it keeps itin that new position for a much
longer period of time.
That's been one of the mostcommon compliments I've received
.
Sharing this work over the yearsis like I can't believe how
long I'm feeling better.
I'll do a fascia releasesession and either the pain is
(20:43):
totally gone and it stays gone,or they feel great for days or
weeks before they may have tohit it again.
You know it's very dependent onthe person, but it's certainly
a much more powerful way tocreate fast and lasting change.
And then the second principleis we need to know where to
(21:07):
release fascia.
Yeah, this is where you mayhave to become a bit more of a
detective in your own body,although I also help people all
the time uncover these patterns,because, while everyone is
unique, we all have our ownmovement patterns and life
experiences and trauma there arecertain patterns that tend to
(21:30):
persist in the majority ofpeople and, unfortunately, where
we feel pain is almost neverthe problem I mean, it's similar
in the nutrition world.
Right, people are having allthese symptoms.
Maybe they're attaching it toone thing.
It's a totally different thingwhen you look for the root cause
.
Right, yeah, it can take alittle bit of work, but the
(21:51):
where is so important and that'swhat makes this work seem
almost like magic.
Sometimes.
As soon as you know where to go, it changes everything.
So a good example is low backpain.
We all think, okay, my low backhurts, I need a massage on my
back, I need to go get adjustedin my back, maybe I'll even foam
(22:14):
roll my back.
But the issue is almost alwayscoming from tension in the
fascia on the opposite side ofour body, in the quads, in the
core, maybe even the adductors.
That fascial line through theadductors actually goes up
through the core.
So those things end up making ahuge and significant difference
to back pain and it's somethingthat no one goes there.
(22:38):
They think they're tight, theythink it's a back problem and
those are really the last placesI would ever go for someone
with back pain.
So when you start to understandthis system of pulleys and the
balance that our body wants usto have, when we can restore
(22:59):
that balance in our fascialtissue, pain goes away, mobility
is restored, things become morehydrated, we can move a lot
more easily.
There's so many incrediblehealth benefits that come from
just going, exploring andfinding the right places that
are contributing the most to theissues that you have.
Nika Lawrie (23:18):
Yeah, you know, while you're speaking I'm
thinking of I have a familymember who's been struggling
with mobility recently and thisfamily member has also been
trying to get their health backin order.
So struggling with, like weightand diabetes and things like
that, you know, and thatperson's really motivated, but
(23:42):
the pain that the person feels,mobility wise, you know that
being able to get up and movehinders the ability to go
exercise or do things different,and it just makes me think, you
know, maybe if there's supportfor the fascia, healing that
pain, that can help overallhealth too, because it will
allow people to not struggle asmuch and then, you know,
(24:04):
approach other aspects of theirhealth once they're feeling
better or have reduced thatoverall pain.
Julia Blackwell (24:16):
Oh my gosh, absolutely.
That's such a great part aboutthis type of fascia release is
you can get a type of movementin without it being an actual
workout and then eventually it'sgoing to support you working
out either without pain or justworking out with more efficiency
.
In general, I've had, you know,I've worked with some
professional athletes over theyears that they couldn't run
faster than a certain amount oftime or they were struggling
(24:39):
with agility, pushing past acertain weight in their squat,
whatever it was.
Once they had more space intheir fascia, they were actually
able to push past that plateau.
So there's also a lot ofincredible benefits for the
performance side of things.
I just you know most people.
(25:00):
You know someone that issuffering from either chronic
pain or some type of limitationthat's preventing them from
working out.
Nika Lawrie (25:08):
So I mostly help people get through that initial
phase of how can we relieve thepain and make you feel good
while you things that you wantto do and that's the you know,
that's the key is, like you,really just I think all of us
who kind of work in this healthand wellness industry, like all
we want to do is help peoplefeel good and thrive, like that
is the ultimate goal, and sofiguring out how to really
(25:30):
support that is, you know,golden, I guess.
Julia Blackwell (25:36):
I mean, think about what you're faced with on
or with going to a doctor, right?
They're pretty much going togive you the same options.
They're going to recommend PT,and it really depends on the
physical therapist.
I certainly don't want todiscourage anyone from going to
PT, because it can be incredible, but I've also seen more people
(25:58):
than I can possibly count comefrom like six months to a year
or more of PT and they haven'thad any real lasting results.
But that's kind of a differentconversation.
It's the where right, Like ifyou're going to for knee pain
and they're only working on yourknee to strengthen your knee,
they're not looking at the bigpicture and finding what is the
(26:20):
root cause.
But coming back to that, though, they'll recommend PT, they may
try to give you a cortisoneshot, PT.
They may try to give you acortisone shot which is
silencing your body's messagesto you, and there's some pretty
significant side effects tocortisone shots out there.
You know, one, two, three.
(26:51):
Maybe it's not a huge deal, butonce you get past three,
cortisone will actually start tokill your fascial tissue and
once it is not be restored andpeople that get cortisone shots
in the same place over and overand over again.
Um is is actually.
It has a lot of negativeeffects that are going to damage
your tissue, and not enoughdoctors are warning people that
this is a as a side effect, orrather it's inevitable, it's
going to happen with a lot ofconsistency.
(27:15):
Or, lastly, they will mayberecommend some pain pills, and
all of these options are prettypoor in my opinion, and so we
just need to open up thepossibility of oh, how can I
start to find out what is theroot cause myself?
What happens when I work on myquads for my low back pain?
(27:37):
What happens when I work on thecalf and the hamstring for my
plantar fasciitis?
Our body gives us suchincredible feedback, and our
whole industry is about how wesilence our body from giving us
feedback.
It's wild.
Nika Lawrie (27:55):
Yeah, I know that that piece always blows my mind
is like, you know, symptoms aremessages from the body.
You know, like our bodies don'tjust break for the sake of
breaking, like there's somethingcausing it.
And when you're feeling pain ordiscomfort or you're having,
you know, bowel issues orwhatever it is like that is a
(28:18):
message from the body that hey,there's an issue, let's address
it, let's fix it.
And then you go to.
You know, I feel bad toobecause I was kind of bashed on
the typical medical system, andI don't mean to because there
was kind of bashed on thetypical medical system, and I
don't mean to because there's somuch value that comes from that
too.
But we miss the fact thataddressing that root cause,
(28:39):
getting to you know the specificthing that's causing the pain
or the symptom, that's how youfix it.
You don't shut up the messenger, you listen to the messenger
and you follow it to the actualcause and then you support the
cause and that's how you getbetter.
So I think it's so key there.
Yeah, sorry.
Julia Blackwell (28:57):
Go ahead.
I was going to say I have nojudgment for that.
I spent 23 years of my lifeignoring my arm and
disconnecting from my body anddoing the exact same thing so
many people have done.
So there's certainly everyone'sdone it.
Nika Lawrie (29:13):
Yeah, yeah.
Julia Blackwell (29:13):
It's like there's certainly no judgment in
it.
Uh, the key is just tounderstand.
The medical system is soexceptional at certain things,
but understanding when is thetime and place to utilize the
magic that's there.
And unfortunately we've reallydropped the ball when it comes
(29:34):
to chronic pain.
There's just not a lot ofeducation or really time
available to help someonediscover that root cause.
You can understand that hey, mydoctor isn't trained in fascia
and understand what mechanicalissues or fascial issues might
(29:56):
be going on within the entiretyof my body.
Then you don't have to judgethem for giving you poor advice.
That's just what they know andit's not their field of genius.
Let's call it so.
That's where we need to go findother ways to solve a problem
that we know is not as simple asthrowing some ice on it or just
(30:17):
popping some pain pills thefascia.
Nika Lawrie (30:19):
What role does just being properly hydrated, like
drinking enough water, what roledoes that play in overall
fascia health?
Julia Blackwell (30:36):
So I know I've been throwing a lot of analogies
at you, but our fascia is alsolike a water irrigation system.
There's some really cool videosyou can look up on YouTube
where, when they're looking atfascia on a microscopic level,
you see all these littlecrisscrossing fibers.
You can see little beads ofwater traveling along the fibers
(30:58):
.
That's water being carried toliterally every cell and tissue
in our body, and so we have tohave space within our fascia for
hydration to travel.
So I've talked to so manypeople over the years that say
oh, I know, I just need to drinkmore water.
(31:18):
You've probably said it, I'vesaid it.
That's right.
Where we think the issue issimply that we're not drinking
enough water.
But the reality is it's uselessto drink more water if it's not
actually getting to where itneeds to go.
(31:45):
Yeah, every 30 minutes in orderfor water to get to where it
needs to go, one, like we weresaying before, the movement
component is so important.
You know, every 45, 50 minutesit would be ideal for you to
stand, move your body around,even for two minutes.
(32:06):
Again, it doesn't have to be aworkout, but just move your body
, try to twist and stretch allkinds of different ways more
than just walking, althoughwalking is great too.
That's going to help a ton ofgetting those water little
droplets everywhere, but thenreleasing fascia as well.
So if you think about acrumpled up ball of plastic wrap
(32:29):
, if you dumped a bottle ofwater over it, how much water is
going to get to the inside ofthat crumpled up ball of plastic
wrap?
Nika Lawrie (32:36):
Yeah, not too much.
Julia Blackwell (32:37):
Yeah, so by strategically releasing these
areas of our fascia that feelsore, tight, tender and strange
texture, you know if it feelsreally ropey or stringy, if it
feels lumpy, like you've gotsome muscle knots which, by the
way, are just fascia knots,they're not really muscle,
they're mostly gut.
I was going to ask that, yeah,but that's a sign that, hey, the
(33:02):
texture there is more like acrinkled up ball of plastic wrap
.
So how can we release it andthen allow water and blood flow
to go rushing back in to hydratethese places?
So, of course, we need to bedrinking water, ideally, you
know, good quality water withminerals.
I'm sure you have a lot moreadvice that you could say on
(33:23):
water to be putting in your body, but again, ultimately it has
to be able to get to thoseplaces, and so movement and fast
release, I think, are just asimportant as drinking water
itself.
Nika Lawrie (33:36):
Totally makes sense .
Yeah, I think you know a lot oftimes with the water.
I mean, most Americanschronically are dehydrated.
I think there's a very small Idon't know what the exact number
is but there's a very smallpercentage of Americans that are
actually fully hydrated most ofthe time, especially those that
(33:56):
live in more kind of hot, aridareas.
I know I live in New Mexico.
It's desert here, it's sun 360days a year pretty much, and so
most people are dehydrated.
And then thinking about takingin the water, a lot of times
people actually need someelectrolytes with it.
So putting a little tiny bit ofsalt in with your water, you'd
(34:17):
be surprised it doesn't tastelike salty water.
If it does, you're putting toomuch in, just a little, you know
, a little tiny bit there makingsure that you're getting
electrolytes that you need forthe body, and a lot of that can
actually come from eating justfruits and vegetables and eating
healthy, nutritious food too.
But if you don't have thosefactors, the water's not going
to kind of absorb into the cellsthat you need either.
Julia Blackwell (34:39):
Yeah, that's great advice.
Electrolytes or eating yourwater, essentially.
Nika Lawrie (34:46):
You'd be surprised how much water we actually get
from the food that we eat, orthat we're supposed to get from
the food that we eat.
Definitely, yeah, supposed to.
Yeah, yeah, um, do you notice,um, any difference between, um
fashion issues with male versusfemale, or does it tend to be
pretty even across the genders?
Julia Blackwell (35:08):
Oh, that's an interesting question.
Um, what I will say is I'venoticed and I apologize to any
of the men listening to this Ido find that women handle the
possible intensity of fasciarelease much better than men do.
(35:29):
It's not necessarily tighter,and I wonder it could be
hormones.
Us women have hormones that areready to go through the
intensity of childbirth andthings like that I don't know if
that's playing a role.
Nika Lawrie (35:41):
We're just known for handling pain a little bit
better, but yeah.
Julia Blackwell (35:45):
Yeah, I think that's really interesting.
But overall, a lot of us have asignificant amount of tension
and, honestly, more and more,especially in the post-COVID
time, there's a lot more tensionthat I think is coming from
stress and the collective traumathat we've all experienced.
I've really noticed that in thelast four years, where it's
(36:10):
taking just a little bit longerfor the results to happen and
there's some resetting of fascia, more so than I ever used to
see in the previous, you know,eight years, and I'm very
curious to know what emotionaland mental effects have happened
(36:33):
to fascia in everyone's bodysince this time.
I will say that I've noticedjust a general increase in
tension for everyone across theboard.
Nika Lawrie (36:43):
Yeah, yeah, definitely I've heard, or I
guess not heard but I'm curious.
You know how the body is knownto remember trauma.
Like we've gone through notnecessarily a physical trauma
but an emotional trauma, and thebody, the cells, can tend to
remember what that trauma is.
And unless you really workthrough that trauma and release
(37:06):
it from your body, it can have aripple effect on your health.
And I'm curious how and you maynot know, I'm kind of just
speaking but I'm curious howthat could potentially affect
fascia too.
Like is that emotional trauma?
So you know, like when we feelstressed, we get that pain in
(37:26):
the back of our shoulders and,you know, in our muscles I'm
doing air quotes for thoselistening right and you're like
it's not the muscle knots, it'sthe fascia knots.
And I'm curious, you know, ifthere's ever any research on
emotional trauma versus fasciapain and fascia knots and
overall issues in that area?
Julia Blackwell (37:47):
Yeah, great question.
There definitely is someresearch on that.
So our fascia is filled withfree nerve endings and those
things called proprioceptorsthat I mentioned just briefly
towards the beginning of thisconversation, which are these
little receptors that areconstantly taking in data about
(38:10):
both our external and internalenvironment.
It's just one consistentfeedback loop.
So it's essentially how we makesense of where our body is in
space.
It's letting us know where weneed to move our body, how much
force to use, how much effort touse, but it's also taking a lot
(38:33):
of stock of what our internalenvironment is saying.
So if we're stressed, if we'veexperienced trauma really you
know they've done a lot ofstudies, mostly on people with
PTSD but all of that feedbackthat those proprioceptors are
getting, the fascia is going torespond according to what that
(38:53):
feedback is.
And so if anything in ourexternal or internal environment
is saying that there's a threat, so you know that could be a
real physical thing, likefalling off your mountain bike,
or it could be an internal thingof being, you know, dreading
going to work or beingchronically anxious any of those
(39:16):
types of things fascia is goingto respond to that.
So they've most consistentlyseen that fascia starts to
become dense, it thickens, itthickens.
So just like we were kind oftalking about with the vacuum
seal bag, if fascia starts tothicken and become really dense,
(39:41):
it's going to be hard fornerves to fire effectively, it's
hard for muscles to glideeasily, it's going to be hard
for our lymphatic system to flow.
There's all these repercussionsfor fascia responding to,
essentially, a threat that neverpasses, because with anxiety,
ptsd, things like that, thatfear, that state of fear, the
(40:01):
brain doesn't always understandwhen that threat has fully
passed.
And so we have specific cellswithin our fascia that can
contract independently of muscleand it's not going to be as
strong of a contraction.
You know, we've all flexed ourbicep and we can feel that
muscle contraction, right, butyou may not feel your fascia
(40:23):
contracting, but it can.
It can get stuck in thatcontracted state and then that
will create that density overtime.
So really, every thought,feeling, emotion, experience
you've ever had has passedthrough your fascial system, has
been logged by thoseproprioceptors and then it has
(40:43):
responded accordingly.
So one of my old mentors usedto say fascia is like the paper
that your life story is writtenon.
So all all of those things thathave happened to you in your
life.
They live in your body and thenwhen we don't do much to address
them or we don't know how, uh,those types of things build up
(41:06):
and they very commonly lead tonot just pain but, like you were
inferring, some real healthside effects, things that you
think are completely physical orunrelated.
We're like, oh well, I'm justhaving stomach aches or I'm just
having these symptoms likeautoimmune things, but the
(41:28):
reality is that could actuallybe from emotions and trauma that
are living in our fascia.
Still that energy hasn't beenreleased.
You know, nothing can flow.
The energy, the blood flow, thewater, all of the emotion,
whatever it is, is just stuck.
Nika Lawrie (41:45):
Yeah, yeah, I think .
Yeah, I mean releasing thatenergy is so key to all parts of
health.
It's, you know, it's reallyunderstanding, you know letting
things good in and kind ofletting that out, and I think
that works for basically everypart of our health emotionally,
physically, spiritually, howeveryou want to approach it.
(42:07):
But yeah, it's a big thing.
Julia, I have one more questionfor you, but before I get to
that question so I guess I havethree more questions for you,
but one key question Is thereanything else that we haven't
touched on that you would liketo share?
And then, where can people findyou and connect with you and
get your resources?
Julia Blackwell (42:27):
Wow.
Well, we've shared a lot, sonothing is coming to mind of
like, oh, oh, my gosh, we haveto talk about this.
Okay, good, oh, you know, maybeI'll say this.
So we've talked a lot about howto release fascia with the
compression and active movement.
To expand on that just a littlebit, I mostly teach people how
to do that type of fasciarelease work with tools like
(42:50):
foam rollers and massage balls.
So they're likely tools thatyou already have.
You maybe just don't know howto use them, or they're
collecting dust in a closetsomewhere, or you have access to
them at the gym.
Those tools are so valuable.
The problem is that most peopleteach you that you're just going
to roll around on the ball orroll around on the roller, and
(43:11):
there's a much more strategicway to utilize that active
movement and really get the fulleffect of releasing fascia if
you just do it a slightlydifferent way.
So, kind of in that same vein,I have a online video library
called Roller Remedy that showsyou how to release any area in
(43:34):
the body.
I think there's over 45techniques from head to toe in
there, as well as pain-specificprograms that are following a
lot of the pain patterns that Ialluded to.
So if you're not sure how totackle your neck pain, your
elbow pain, your sciatica, yourplantar fasciitis, really most
things that people have I haveprograms in there as well.
So I have a free seven-daytrial of that roller remedy
(43:59):
program.
If you go to movementbyjuliacomslash podcast, I have a special
seven-day trial that you guyscan try if you want to see how
it feels and see what thedifference can be when you
release fascia correctly and inthe correct areas.
Nika Lawrie (44:19):
That's huge.
I'll make sure I link to thatin the show notes too, just to
make it.
And I noticed for those who arelistening on the podcast,
behind Julia is a wall full offoam rollers and the balls too.
Yeah, so I'm glad you, I'm gladyou mentioned that.
Definitely so, Julia.
My, my last question for youtoday what is something and
(44:41):
you've kind of already touchedon this with your story, but if
you have a different one, that's, that's great too but what is
something that you'veexperienced that was really
life-changing, that you'veeither learned or experienced it
can be either that you wouldlike to pass on to others to
help inspire them.
Julia Blackwell (44:58):
Well, I certainly would say I'm just
going to keep hammering thishome.
If you've been experiencingsomething that it seems like
nothing has been able to helpand you feel really hopeless, I
totally understand.
I've been there.
But there are ways to find areal solution and it may simply
(45:19):
be that you're in the wrongplace.
So I really encourage you tomake a move.
You know, living life with painand discomfort is a really
lonely place to be.
I spent a lot of my lifefeeling like I was trapped in a
box and, while I still have somelimitations, I've also been
(45:44):
able to solve my own bouts ofknee pain, low back pain, neck
pain in a matter of days.
Because I know this work, I'vebeen able to really come out of
my shell and do things thatyounger me would have not even
dreamed of, because of the wayI've been able to let so much of
(46:05):
this physical and emotionaltrauma go through vascular
release as well.
So I just encourage people tokeep on it.
There is a solution.
It's just again, maybe you'renot in the right spot at this
moment.
Nika Lawrie (46:18):
Yeah Well, I love all the information you've
shared today and I love yourstory.
It really is beautiful to comefrom pain at birth and kind of
struggle with this your wholelife and to really do whatever
you can to work through it.
But not only do that foryourself, but now you're helping
other people.
(46:39):
That is such a beautiful thingto do and inspiring, and I just
want to thank you and commend toyou for doing that work.
So it's beautiful.
Thank you so much.
Yeah Well, julia, thank you forcoming on the show.
I really appreciate it.
Julia Blackwell (46:52):
Thank you.
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I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
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The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.