September 11, 2025 • 46 mins
What does it mean to raise resilient children in today's achievement-obsessed culture? Seth Davis—basketball journalist, editor-in-chief of Hoops HQ, and father of three boys—offers a refreshingly honest perspective that transcends sports and speaks to the heart of modern parenting challenges.
Davis begins our conversation with a powerful daily practice: gratitude for simply being alive and having the opportunity to parent. This foundation of gratitude shapes his approach to fatherhood and creates space for meaningful connection with his sons. As we dive deeper, he introduces his "Tree of Why" concept—a framework that distinguishes between process-oriented motivation (leading to growth and peace of mind) and results-focused thinking (leading to comparison and suffering). This distinction fundamentally changes how we approach parenting, sports, and life itself.
Perhaps most provocatively, Davis challenges the conventional wisdom about choosing colleges and activities. Rather than seeking comfort and guaranteed happiness, he advises his sons to "pick the best place for you to struggle." This counterintuitive guidance acknowledges that growth comes through challenge, not comfort. Through candid stories about his sons' sports journeys and his own upbringing as the son of a prominent political figure, Davis illustrates how allowing children to experience setbacks creates resilience that serves them throughout life.
The conversation takes unexpected turns through topics including the NCAA transfer portal, youth sports culture, and parenting advice from basketball legend Bill Walton, who told his sons: "I will never come to you to critique your game. If you want to come to me and ask questions, I'll talk about it for as long as you want, but you have to come to me." This approach respects children's autonomy while remaining available—a delicate balance many parents struggle to achieve.
Join us for this thought-provoking episode that will transform how you think about parenting, purpose, and what truly matters in raising the next generation. Whether you're a sports fan or simply a parent trying to navigate today's challenging landscape, Davis's insights will inspire you to parent with greater intention and peace of mind.
Please don't forget to leave us a review wherever you consume your podcasts! Please help us get more dads to listen weekly and become the ultimate leader of their homes!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Hi, I'm Riley and I'm Ryder and this is my dad show.
Hey, everybody, it's CaseyJaycox with the quarterback dad
cast.
Welcome to season six, and Icould not be more excited to
have you join me for anotheryear of fantastic episodes and
conversations really unscriptedand raw and authentic
(00:24):
conversations with dads.
If you're new to this podcast,really it's simple.
It's a podcast where weinterview dads, we learn about
how they were raised, we learnabout the life lessons that were
important to them, we learnabout the values that are
important to them and really welearn about how we can work hard
to become a better quarterbackor leader of our home.
So let's sit back, relax andlisten to today's episode on the
Quarterback Dadcast.
(00:45):
Well, hey, everybody, it'sCasey Jaycox with the
Quarterback Dadcast.
We are in season six and we'regoing to finish the year strong
with a fantastic guest that onlycomes to us because of the kind
Emmanuel Kramer, of mywonderful client, tier four.
So, betsy Robinson, thank youfor hiring Emmanuel, because if
you don't, there's no way I getthis next guest on.
(01:07):
His name is Seth Davis, and ifyou know anything about
basketball, if you followanything about basketball, you
know who he is.
He's the editor in chief ofHoops HQ.
He's the host of CBS and TurnerSports March Madness 22 years
he wrote for Sports Illustrated,six years for the Athletic.
He's written nine books.
I just ordered one about sistergene.
He's also written about thefamous john wooden and if you
(01:27):
follow this podcast you knowthat I interviewed swen nader,
who played for john wooden,which was a fantastic story.
But with all that, that's notwhy we're having seth on.
We're going to interview seththe dad, learn how he's working
hard to become the ultimatequarterback, maybe point guard,
of his household.
So without further ado, mrdavis, welcome to the Dadcast.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Good to be with you, casey.
And a shout out as well toEmanuel.
She's truly one of the specialpeople in my life, so when she
says jump, I say how high.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
God, I'm grateful.
Well, we always start out eachepisode gratitude, so tell me,
what are you most grateful foras a dad today?
Speaker 1 (02:07):
You know, the first thing I do when I wake up, casey
, is thank God that I'mbreathing, I'm alive, I got a
chance to be a dad.
Not everybody woke up thismorning.
And so you say let's begrateful in the small moments
and the small things, but that'sa pretty big thing.
Let's start with the big thingsand then we'll work our way down
to the small things.
So I'm always grateful for theopportunity to attack the day
(02:30):
and be the best version ofmyself that day.
And sometimes I'm not in.
I'm not a great version, I'mnot always at my best.
Most of the time we're not atour best.
But if you're intentional aboutit and you're mindful about it,
then you got a chance.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
If you're intentional about it and you're mindful
about it, then you got a chance.
So this is maybe the universespeaking to us, my man, because
this, as you can see, everyoneat home can't.
But this is a journal and, seth, we did not for the record,
everybody, we did not talk aboutthis, but it gave me goosebumps
when you said that.
So every morning, when I wakeup, the first line of my journal
is God, thanks for waking me up.
Today that's it Same thing, andwhen I say it I find myself
(03:05):
smiling.
So I'm going to say I'mgrateful for that, but I'm also
grateful we joked about thisbefore we record but I'm
grateful for my daughter's AAUjourney is over and grateful for
the experiences, the memories,but I'm grateful that thing's
over and get some money back.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
Oh goodness, money and time, although you know it's
.
I mean, we could do a wholeshow on just how awful youth
sports is in America.
But you and I are part of theproblem because we're going to
complain about how bad it is.
Yet we pointed up the cash,didn't we?
We fed the beast, didn't we?
I mean, they know how desperatewe are to get our kids out of
(03:44):
the house and off the phone andhave some type of experience
where they're competing, they'retraining, they're working hard,
they're connecting with kidstheir age.
So it's still a net plus, butit is bonkers, how dumb we are
in this country when it comes toyouth sports.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Yeah, there's a lot of challenges.
I find that some of my friendswho played either played or
around it their perspective is alittle bit different.
Like I try to be not one thatlives vicariously through my
kids and both my kids are goodat sports that I was not good at
at least when they're their age.
Like my son, he's now playinggolf in college.
(04:19):
My daughter's going to playhoop.
I am not going to playbasketball because I don't want
to blow an Achilles.
I will play horse and getrolled up by my daughter, but,
um, it's just so funny howpeople get so wrapped up into
that and it's like, just wedon't have an outcome, we're not
going to be able to influenceit and it's gotta be their idea,
whatever they choose to do.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
Um, so I've just really worked hard on that and I
think, having this podcast forsix years has definitely helped
talk to other dads and just like, let's, you know, therapy each
other through this journey.
Yeah, and I think it's.
Look, we see a lot of badbehavior from parents, frankly,
(05:01):
or unproductive behavior,unhealthy behavior, but you know
, it's all from love, right?
Like you know, I always I tryto teach my kids.
You know, when somebody hurtsthem or annoys them or pisses
them off or does them wrong,like let's start with the most
charitable explanation for that,and to me it they love their
kids and they want their kids todo well and they want their
kids to be happy and they wanttheir kids to be successful.
But I think we as parents toooften lose sight of just how
(05:24):
important the struggle is.
Like I had, I had a eurekamoment, like your kids are in
college now, casey.
I was taking my oldest son,zach, and we were visiting
various campuses and, by the wayyou know, I say to parents like
, do the campus tour.
It's great bonding, it's somuch fun and you can see them
really thinking about theirfuture and being excited about
(05:44):
their future, their greatexperiences.
But at a certain point Irealized all we talk about is,
you know, pick the school whereyou're going to be the most
happy, like pick where you'regoing to be most happy, that's
what you should pick.
I actually think there's abetter question than that.
The better question is pick thebest place for you to struggle,
because you're going tostruggle.
And so I think we, as parents,forget just how valuable, how
(06:07):
important the struggle is and tolet them have their own
struggle.
Let them have their ownexperience, their own setbacks.
I lost a game.
I, you know, I let in a goal.
I, I missed the final shot.
Kids were mean to me.
I, you know I lost my temperand got attacked.
I got dejected Like I've got.
You know, my youngest is a verycompetitive kid and he's had
(06:28):
his moments, and so I just thinkagain, the most charitable
explanation is parents lovetheir kids.
They feel like it's their jobto prevent their kids from
experiencing emotional pain,like that's way worse than a
broken bone is emotional pain.
But pain is a part of life andif they don't experience a
(06:50):
basketball game, a soccer game,some type of youth sport, is the
best place for them to struggle, because one way or another
it's going to be okay 100%.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
I couldn't agree more and I think of all the
heartache or frustration that Iface through sports.
It totally prepared me forcorporate America.
I mean from injuries tothrowing four picks and a half
and getting booed to when thesun came up the next day and I
just always Four picks and ahalf is pretty bad.
(07:24):
I was not good, that was.
That was probably the worstgame I ever played.
Thankfully, I did play well inthe second half to not throw
three touchdowns.
We came back a little bit, butsome days, yeah, some days, I
was just not not good, you know.
But in the end I had so manygreat mentors.
My parents made sure that I didnot tie the outcome of a game
to who I was as a person, right.
Um, that same thing has helpedme in life.
I have to share that with mykids, reminding them that, hey,
(07:46):
like my son who golf, whichpicked a sport that's brutally
hard and you're by yourself andit's so easy to think, oh my God
, I didn't shoot 72.
You know who cares?
It's not.
No one really cares.
All you can do is control whatyou can control.
Work your ass off and be yourbest, and then tomorrow's a new
day and we'll see what that newday brings.
But it is interesting to see,like you know, letting our kids
(08:09):
fail and letting them do it,which is hard to do, but it's
what shapes all of us.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Yeah, and it's, it's keeping the big picture
experience.
I've been noodling on thisthing.
I haven't really taken itpublic yet, but I call it my
tree of why.
Um, you know we talk about why,like you know what's your
purpose, why are you here?
You know this sort of this sortof upper crust value of that,
but I'm talking when I talk to,like, the athletes, college
(08:34):
athletes, like, literally, why,right, why are you doing this?
Think about, you've madeplaying this sport the whole
centerpiece of your life.
All the, all the money, all thetime, all the money, all the
time, all the effort, all thepain, all the struggle, why?
And at the top of the tree ofwhy, on one side is process and
the other side is results, andit's very important.
(08:56):
I believe, Casey, that you haveto make that decision before
you step onto the field, beforeyou step onto the court, before
you sign up for the club, beforeyou try out for the team and
parents and and kids and spousesand coaches.
And why are we doing this?
Why are you doing this?
If you're doing it to get acertain result.
(09:17):
So on the on the process sideof the tree, I have persistence,
perseverance, growth.
I have persistence,perseverance, growth, pure
intentions that's your thing.
Under pure intentions I haverelationships, not transactions.
Life is not a transactionGratitude, letting go, which is
different than giving up, andthen, ultimately, peace of mind,
(09:38):
which is the definition ofsuccess from John Wooden.
So John Wooden had the pyramidof success.
He defined success as peace ofmind that comes from the
self-satisfaction of knowingthat you did your best to become
the best that you're capable ofbecoming.
So most people come focus onfulfilling your potential, but I
always focus on peace of mind.
That's the ultimate goal inlife.
(09:59):
And then, on the result side ofthe tree, we have expectations,
comparison, which is, you know,is the thief of joy.
Fear, resentment, regret andultimately suffering.
Because sometimes, if you doall of this because you want a
certain result, the worst thingthat can happen for you is you
get that result.
What happens if you put in allthis time and all this effort to
(10:24):
become an NBA champion becauseyou think that's what's going to
make you happy?
Then, if you become an NBAchampion and you're still not
happy now, you're doubly screwed, Right, Right.
So process versus resultsthat's the, that's the initial
decision.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
So good man.
It's like this is fresh whatwe're talking about and I want
to get into you in a second, butI want to hit on something that
you said that made me thinkabout.
So I just dropped my son offhis second year of college and
the first year was frickingbrutal.
Like my kids always make fun ofme I'm the guy that cries in
movies and AT&T commercial, yeah.
But like I was like, oh, I'mgood this year and I was solo,
(10:59):
cause my wife was home with mydaughter and I literally with my
daughter and um, I, literallyhe left our hotel room.
He was going to go to play in agolf tournament and I like,
right when the door closed, itwas just like watershed again.
Like, oh, just hit me hardbecause I was like I'm not gonna
see my dude for like threemonths or well, it seemed like
if we go see him play.
But I told him right when I left.
I said there's three things Iwant you to just remember.
(11:19):
Like this year is like abelieve what you do matters.
That that's a big theme of ours.
That hit me at age 41, mucholder than that now but that
helps me in my coaching businessor speaking business.
But just like the word belief,I think too many kids don't
think about the power of that.
You believe in yourself, yougive yourself a chance to be
better.
And I said on the golf course Iwant you to commit to every
(11:41):
shot but, more importantly,commit to everything you do in
life with the most biggestintent and if you have the right
attitude and you commit fully,you can't control anything else.
And then, lastly, I saidpromise me that you remember the
most dangerous golf club inyour bag is not in your bag, but
it's your mind.
Your mind is your mostdangerous golf club in the bag.
And I said you can use thatwherever you go.
(12:03):
And we had this like amazingfather-son moment.
And then like he later he textsme, he goes dad, I wrote down
those three things, I put it onmy scorecard, on the back of my
scorecard, and I looked at everyshot and it totally helped me.
And he played in an event 180kids, 180 kids, adults took
fourth shot, two under, and hesaid, dad is because we worked
on my mind.
And so like I'm jealous of thatwith him because I didn't have
(12:27):
that and I was at his age.
And so now, like this is thegift, or my calling to be able
to help him and he can helpothers.
And, um, and if his dad'slistening right now, it's like
you don't need a podcast to havethese conversations.
You can go do it whenever youwant.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
Yeah.
So, I'd also emphasize to himthat those things apply whether
you shoot uh, shoot 82 or 68.
Certainly, if you shoot a badscore, you want to know why.
You want to sort of figure out,you want to dig in, you want to
go through your process, butyou can't attach yourself to the
(13:01):
outcome.
And it's actually interestingwhen you talk about his mind,
because I've thought about thisand written about this and
lectured about this a little bitLike.
To me, golf is the ultimate,because if you think about if we
took a round that your sonplays and we only took like
video of his hitting the balland we spliced it together, one
(13:22):
after another, actually strikinga golf ball, how long would
that video video be?
Maybe four minutes?
Sure, if that, four to fiveminutes, if that, yeah, a round
of golf takes four, four and ahalf hours, right, right.
So that's a lot of time tospend with your like.
(13:43):
I think we should name ourbrain.
I named my brain Uncle Billyfor the character in my favorite
movie, it's a Wonderful Life.
Like.
That's a lot of time with UncleBilly And's.
It's great that you'reencouraging him to do that work
before he starts his round.
Yeah, because when you're in itit's too late you're right, 100
.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Well, I learned a lot of that through.
I worked for um russellwilson's company for like a
brief year company calledlimitless minds and then I
actually interviewed I don'tknow if you know the guy named
mich Gervais- I know I was justwith him a few months ago.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Yeah, I know.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
So he was a former guest and I'm.
I love his work he does, andhim and Pete Harrell and um, uh,
so it's like I think these are.
These are things that I thinkso many people have the
opportunity to do.
It just takes a littleinvestment and might take get
yourself a little uncomfortableto get good at this stuff, but
I'm never going to be perfect.
(14:31):
Like you mentioned earlier, I'mon a, I'm on a growth pattern
and some days I'm going to begreat.
Some days I'm not going to begreat, but at least I have a
chance to like be humble, to behumble and vulnerable, to admit
it, and then be curious to findout why, and get better tomorrow
and as long as you're payingattention.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
You got a chance to do all that.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
Yeah 100%.
Well, bring me inside the Davishuddle.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
I'd love to know, maybe, how you and your wife met
, and then a little bit abouteach kid and what they're up to
right now.
My wife, honey, he wants toknow how we met.
We're having our.
What anniversary is coming up?
Is it 2019?
19th, oh, 24.
I'm bad at math.
Uh-oh, really, 24 years we'vebeen married.
It's like a real relationship.
(15:16):
Yeah, it was like a movie.
My wife's cousin is my bestfriend since childhood, like we
were literally in the same cribtogether, okay, and our families
were best friends.
We were best friends, and sohis sister was getting married
in Washington DC and so I wentto the wedding and, not going to
(15:38):
lie back in the day, I lookpretty good in a tuxedo Not
nowadays, not so much but westruck up a great and it turned
out, even though we were both inD DC, we both lived in New York
.
In fact, she lived across, or,excuse me, she worked across the
street from where I was atSports Illustrated and she was
working for a radio companyliterally across sixth Avenue,
(16:01):
so I could see, we could wave ateach other through our office
windows and, um, we just becamebest friends right at the start
and got married on um, if youcan believe, september 1st 2001
in New York city.
So it was kind of outdoors andyou can see the towers and some
of our wedding photos and um andso, uh, yeah, we have three
(16:24):
boys.
My oldest, uh, zach.
Like Emanuele, I have a Zach.
He's 21.
He's a senior at University ofTexas.
My middle one, noah, is 19,sophomore at the University of
Texas.
We're a Longhorn family.
And then my youngest, gabe, isa pretty intense baseball player
.
He's a sophomore in high schooland wants to be the next Otani,
(16:45):
which is fine with me.
So, yeah, we're a sports family.
I mean, they've grown up aroundsports.
As you can imagine, going tofinal fours and being in locker
rooms and you know watching, youknow it's great, I know you've
had this experience.
Like sports is is such a greattemplate of dialogue versus a
(17:07):
shared experience.
Going to games, watching thegames is fun, but there's all
kinds of morality plays, likewe're talking about Shadur
Sanders right now and everythingthat's going on with him and so
many interesting conversationsaround that.
Love it.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
Take me back to what was life like growing up for you
in, I believe, connecticut, ifI have my info right, maryland,
actually.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
That's why I know, I know, manuel, we went to the
same high school.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Okay.
Well, what was life likegrowing up for you?
And maybe talk about the impactmom and dad had on you.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
Yeah, well, my dad is a very well-known lawyer and
politico.
His name is Lanny Davis.
He went to um Yale law school,yale undergrad and Yale law
school.
Um was fraternity brothers withGeorge W Bush and was close
friends with uh then HillaryRodham and Bill Clinton.
Um, joe Lieberman, uh was hisbest friend Um, and he's not
(18:02):
really technically a godfatherum in the Jewish religion, but
he was my, my sandek at my brisk.
We won't go into details there.
So yeah, he was.
He's a very well-known politicalfigure, served in the Clinton
White House for a little over ayear, ran for Congress when he
was younger, didn't win and hasbecome, you know, very
(18:25):
well-known sort of talking headon cable TV.
Represented Michael Cohen.
If you look at the day thatMichael Cohen testified in front
of Congress with those hearingsthat everybody was watching, my
dad was literally sitting rightbehind him and I've gotten to
know him a little bit.
So, yeah, and you know my dad,our favorite movie growing up
(18:45):
was All the President's Men.
So I grew up with thisreverence of journalism and
reporters and also ofpoliticians.
Like nowadays we think ofpoliticians as you know, satan
incarnate and you know, uh, youor anyone else should be, ever
be looked upon and talked aboutthe way my dad talked about John
(19:07):
Kennedy.
You know I mean that was thebeacon of light.
So you know I was taught thatthese are important, impressive
people to be admired, you know,and so gave me an appreciation
for reading journalism history.
It took me.
We had season tickets to theRedskins games.
Emmanuel will tell you that Iwas the biggest Redskins fan in
our school and I was the kidwith the hog's nose, and here's
(19:29):
a great full circle moment foryou.
Forgive the name dropping, butyou asked so.
At my bar mitzvah we had aRedskins theme.
So Big Cake and SLD Stadium,the tickets, and every table was
a different player and when Iwas growing up, the ultimate
Redskin was John Riggins.
Right, he was the running backand he was a larger than life
(19:50):
character man.
He was like amazing.
So my head table, where I wassitting with all my friends, the
centerpiece was John Riggins.
So fast forward.
However, many years later, johnRiggins is hosting a radio show
in Washington and he DMs me onTwitter asking if I would be a
guest on his show to talk aboutthe NCAA tournament.
(20:11):
So of course I said yes and Iwent on and I said listen, rigo,
I know you were Super Bowl MVP,you're in the Hall of Fame, but
that is actually not yourgreatest achievement.
Your greatest achievement wasbeing the centerpiece for the
head table at my bar mitzvah.
That's when it becomes super.
And my mom, by the way, is avery interesting person.
She had non-Hodgkin's lymphoma,so she had it treated and then
(20:40):
it came back.
And you know when cancer comesback, that's when it gets really
scary.
And so she was able to cureherself, not only through
chemotherapy but through allkinds of health protocols,
because, as you know, whenpeople get cancer, oftentimes
it's the chemo that kills them,the treatment that kills them,
because you're trying to killthe cancer and helping them.
Because when you have chroniccondition, if your body gets to
(21:14):
a point where it becomeshospitable again to cancer, she
could get cancer.
She's 80 years old, and if shewalked into your room and I said
she's 80, you'd call me a liar.
She's amazing.
So she's been an inspiration aswell.
So I was blessed.
I chose my parents wisely.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
So good, can we give your mom's business a plug?
What's the name of the business?
Speaker 1 (21:37):
Her name is Elaine Gibson, G-I-B-S-O-N, and her
business is called RenewedLiving Inc.
Renewed Living Inc.
She is amazing.
She plays again.
She's 80.
She turned 80 in May.
She plays pickleball almostevery morning.
Lives in Virginia, Playspickleball almost every morning.
As long as it's 40 degrees orover, she's out there playing
(21:58):
pickleball, which I won't dobecause I'm afraid of getting
hurt.
Speaker 3 (22:02):
I will not play pickleball, because I just play
golf If I play pickleball.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
That's it.
That's why you don't playbasketball.
I tell friends our age, my age,hey, you can keep playing.
It's going to be an ACL or anAchilles, just so we know the
math.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
Speaking my language, seth, I tell my fitness goals
and people think I'm jokingthere's a little sarcasm, but
I'm dead serious To not get fatand to not get hurt.
Ah I like that Fight, shootthem.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
Yeah, I heard on a podcast a while ago it stuck
with me Someone kind of again inour age cohort.
He said my goals right now areto stay married, not get fat,
and be there for my kids.
Even better, yep.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
That's even better as you think about the values that
mom and dad taught you thatwere the most important that
you've now shared with your boys.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
Tell me what comes to mind Kindness, be kind.
You know my dad was kind of abig shot lawyer.
He had time for everybody,treated everybody amazingly well
.
I almost hesitate to share thisbecause I don't want this to
sound elitist, but he he had,you know, like his secretary
administrative assistant.
The secretary, many years ago,asked him to be the godfather of
(23:15):
his daughter.
Wow.
So I'll never forget going,going in there.
We were the only white peoplein the church and it was the
most beautiful ceremony and justsurrounded by love.
So just being a decent person,and they got that from their
parents.
You know, and you know just theimportance of family.
You know it's like the oldsaying that you know how do you,
(23:35):
how do you spell love T-I-M-E.
You know there's no substitutefor just showing up.
We all want quality time.
Well, quantity of time isimportant too.
You don't have to be settingrecords every second of the day.
Just show up, just show up.
So keep things simple like that.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
No, I love that man.
It's funny how, like when you,when I've shared this before
like on the show, but like earlyin my corporate journey, things
were going great for thebusiness, for me from a
financial perspective, but froma dad perspective I was
miserable and because I wasn'tgetting the time on my kids, I'd
get home at 645.
(24:14):
They're in bed by seven.
I'm so I'm not seeing thembefore work, I'm not seeing them
before they go to bed.
And I remember going to my bossand I was like I know that you
guys like this, but this sucks.
I'm miserable.
She's like, what's how?
What do you want to do?
I'm like I mean, can we?
She's like, why don't you leaveit?
For?
I'm like I don't work for abank, I can't leave it for.
She's like, why not?
You don't trust us.
I said, no, I trust you guys.
She goes, leave it for, beavailable in your cell.
(24:34):
And you made me think thatstory because, like I once I
committed to like from like fiveto seven, having really good
dad, and I was, I was, you know,and I was like a present as a
(24:55):
leader of my company, but Icould, I was great, very
grateful that my boss shout outto.
Angela.
Veronica gave me theopportunity to do that and you
know I think sometimes parents Isee this even, like in the
coaching work I do they don'trealize that like if you don't
work on you at home, you're notgoing to be a best version of
(25:17):
you at work.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
Sooner or later you're going to break, and this
is what I've talked to coachesand leaders and corporate
leaders about.
What was your boss's name?
Angela Aronica.
Angela Aronica, she acted outof pure selfishness in a good
way, and this is when I talkabout my tree of why pure
intentions, be of service, be ofservice.
(25:40):
No-transcript made you a betteremployee and made the business
better?
Yep, right.
And so if you have truly pureintentions you know I write
about your body's a battery,right.
Like we have electricitycoursing through our body.
There's EKGs and EAGs and alphaand gamma waves, like it's
we're batteries.
And so when someone says, man,I got a weird vibe from that
(26:02):
person, then you just imaginethat that actually
electronically happened and soyou can't act one way and be
thinking another in your headand your heart.
So if her intentions weren'tpure, she's like you know what?
Casey, right now, casey needsto be a better dad and even if
there's a short-term loss thatI'm taking on that, the
(26:25):
long-term upside is much bigger.
Starting with, if somebodywanted to hire you away and
you're a valuable employee andthey said, hey, man, we want to
pay you more, but you got towork till seven every night.
Or you're going to say, well,okay, that's great, but I'll
leave at four to be with my kids, well, no, well, I don't want
to leave a boss who truly caresfor me 100%.
(26:46):
I'm dealing with this withbasketball coaches in this whole
transfer portal thing.
You know, and like mid-majorcoaches get frustrated because
they have a player who's reallygood hard to get a good player
at that level and now the bigboys want to come poaching them.
And I always say, lean intothat.
Lean into that when you'rerecruiting a player, saying,
instead of going to Kansas,where you're going to ride the
(27:07):
bench, come play for me in twoyears.
And I'm going to call the coachof Kansas and tell him he
should recruit you.
And, by the way, if you don'twant to be here, I'm going to
help you get.
Where do you want to go?
I'll help you.
I want what's good for you.
I don't want what's good for me.
Guess what that is good for youas a coach, because he's going
to be in a locker room withsomebody.
(27:30):
Or now you're dealing withagents.
You say, well, what about thatcoach Casey?
Well, great guy, man, I wantedto leave and he helped me.
Really I want to play for thatguy.
Your boss was selfish in thebest way.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
Yeah, no, it's good.
That's what's fun to reflectabout these moments, these flash
moments or moments that reallyimpacted people.
Speaker 3 (27:57):
Hi, I'm Betsy Robinson, CEO of Tier 4 Group, a
women-owned anddiversity-certified technology
recruiting and executive searchfirm that connects exceptional
talent with extraordinarycompanies in 43 states across
the US.
At Tier 4 Group, relationshipsare at the heart of everything
we do, Whether it's with ourclients, our candidates, our
(28:19):
vendor partners or with eachother.
Our mission is to go beyondtransactions and create
long-lasting partnerships.
We don't just help companiesfind talent, we help them find
the right talent, and thatstarts with truly understanding
our clients and candidates.
It's not just about fillingroles.
It's about fostering successfor the long-term.
(28:41):
This is the recipe for successthat's landed us on the Inc 5000
six consecutive years and hasus outpacing our competition
across the country, and I'mthrilled to support Casey Jay
Cox's podcast.
Casey's philosophy alignsperfectly with ours prioritizing
relationships over transactions.
(29:01):
His insights on building trust,empathy and connection resonate
deeply with the way we dobusiness at Tier 4 Group.
We were honored to have Caseyas our keynote at our 2024
kickoff, and all of our newhires read his book Win the
Relationship, Not the Deal, whenthey start here with us.
So if you're looking for apartner who values relationships
(29:24):
as much as results, so ifyou're looking for a partner who
values relationships as much asresults.
Visit us at tier4groupcom orconnect with me, Betsy Robinson,
directly on LinkedIn and, whileyou're at it, keep tuning into
Casey's podcast.
You'll walk away inspired tostrengthen your own
relationships, both personallyand professionally.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
And as Casey, always says stay curious.
I would love, I want to.
I want to get into transferportal.
I want to be respectful of yourtime because that could take a
long.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
I told you I go a little long.
Once I get rolling you can'tshut me up, so don't worry about
that, Go ahead.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
Well, I, you know I've talked about transfer
portal with other dads andthere's so much as a former
college athlete, I there'sthings I like about it and
there's things I don't likeabout it.
The things I don't like aboutit from a maybe a corporate
perspective is it doesn't allow,sometimes, kids to go through
the struggle.
It's, it's, it's the quick hey,I'm not playing, I'm going to
(30:15):
quit and go, I'm going totransfer here and now.
That what, what society doesn'ttalk about.
Maybe you'd probably I don'tknow how you feel, but like, the
number of kids in the portal isprobably insurmountable versus
the number of kids who actuallyhave success and go place in
these places.
At least, that's like myperception from like just
watching media.
But I just wish that there wasa way that kids could still get
(30:37):
paid, they could transfer if thesituation is right, but there's
also a little bit of skin inthe game so they can't just keep
the one and done and bounceback and forth.
So I don't again, I don't wantto know what your thoughts are
on that, but like I, just I wantour kids to be able to kind of
we talked about in the beginningto deal with the resilience and
I just don't know if the portal, maybe you can educate me,
maybe I'm clueless of what I'mtalking about.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
But no, no, no.
I think fundamental question iswho gets to make that decision
right, whether to be resilientor not resilient, whether to
stick it out or you know, a lotof times there's good reasons to
leave.
I can give you a long, long,long, long, long list of players
whose lives changed becausethey transferred to a different
situation and it worked out muchbetter for them and changed the
course of their life.
There's a long list of playerswho did exactly what you said.
(31:30):
They didn't want to stick itout, and you know I try to not
that they don't know this, butI've talked to these coaches
about having come through theyouth sports culture.
Like, by the time these kidsget to college, it's too late to
instill that.
And, by the way, it starts withthe youth sports.
Okay, so my sons?
Now they have my DNA.
(31:51):
Okay, so there's a low ceilingthere.
They ain't playing for MichiganState or they ain't playing.
You know, my youngest wants toplay college baseball and I want
him to chase it.
I would never put a cap on him,but he's got my DNA, so.
But here's the thing.
So my middle son early on wasplaying soccer and he said he
wanted to be a goalie and I saidgreat, noah, you have my full
(32:16):
support, I'll get you training.
Like you know, we have themeans to do that.
Great, but just understandsomething Don't play goalie
unless you can handle gettingscored on, because that's what
gets them.
It's going to happen a lot,right?
So anyway, again my DNA.
And he was a late bloomer.
He was very small for his age.
I'm telling you, casey, I thinkhe was 10 and he was playing
(32:37):
for this team and doing allright, doing his best, whatever,
not a super high level team,like the coach, like the parents
.
You know what happened.
The coach cut him and found anew goalie for the next season
and he said we had theconversation.
He said I'm sorry, he's toosmall, he was 10.
He was 10.
And not a one of those kids isplaying in college.
(32:59):
So we bounced around to a lot ofdifferent teams coming up
through the youth sports circuit, not our decision, not our
decision.
Sometimes they get cut and then, you know, end up on a team and
my oldest son one time said tome this team sucks, I hate this
team, it's terrible.
I'm like, well, if this teamwere much better, you probably
wouldn't be on it.
So, right, like, let's just,let's just do our best here.
(33:26):
So the point is that it goestwo ways.
A lot of college coaches, casey, will preach the value of
sticking with it, but thenthey'll recruit a player, or
they'll bring him in one season,two seasons, maybe he's not
panning out.
Guess what they do?
They go to the portal and theybring in someone over him.
So now you're asking him tostay, but you're not going to
stick it out with him.
So there's a lot going on.
(33:47):
I will agree that.
You know the pendulum has, as isoften the case with progress
and change, especially suddenhas swung way too much in the
opposite direction.
It used to be that basketballwas one of only four sports
where there was no uh, what theycall a one-time exception where
you can transfer out and playright away the first time.
(34:09):
So if you're a basketballplayer, anytime you transferred
you had to sit out.
So first they got rid of thatand said okay, the first time
you transfer you don't have tosit out.
Subsequent times.
You do have to sit out, unlessyou apply for a hardship waiver,
if there's a real reason tochange.
You have a sick relative.
Well, guess what?
It was a massive healthepidemic in the country because
(34:32):
everybody all of a sudden had anuncle with cancer and they had
to transfer so and then it waschallenging in legal courts and
so now they can transfer asoften as they want without
having to sit out.
Now you throw NIL into it andthat money is heavily skewed
towards the portal becausethey're essentially free agents
and the market exploded.
That's why you've had thetransfers rampaging.
(34:55):
The way the system is set upand we don't need to get into
the weeds, but it's designed toreally drastically reduce the
financial payouts in the nextcycle, so there will probably be
fewer transfers.
There seems to be sort ofbroader agreement that it's a
better model.
Let them have that one-timeexception transfer the first
(35:17):
time without sitting out.
Subsequently, if you want totransfer you have to sit out,
and less exception for acoaching change or something
along those lines.
Because another another concernis the academic piece is when
you change schools, your, yourcredits don't always transfer.
So if you're hopping tomultiple schools, you're not
getting your degree.
In four or five years it's not.
Or if you are getting a degree,it's not, it doesn't.
(35:39):
You haven't taken real classes.
So there's been a lot ofseismic change in the college
sports space.
The transfer space, thetransfer, the transfer ramp of
transferring is definitely apart of it.
That you know.
They're just they're trying toput some of that toothpaste back
in the tube and it's not easy,wow no, that was good, that was
that was well said.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
It's good to have perspective.
I think it's good to, even ifpeople what you know dads, moms,
homes, you have perspectives onthings, be be curious to, to
understand all sides.
I always say there's threesides every story my side, your
side, the truth.
And unless you're in thosemeetings, you're in those things
it's tough to really truly knowwhat's going on.
So but I think, yeah, you'reright, there's, there's always
(36:21):
some folks that have greatexperience, some that don't have
good experience, and I justhope my big goal or wish
downstream is that it doesn'timpact the high school senior
too much with the portal andreduce opportunities for them
downstream.
Speaker 1 (36:35):
That's definitely what's happening, because these
coaches would much rather coacholder players and guys who are
proven Job security.
Yeah Well, if you're, you knowyou can bring in somebody who's
20 years old and has played twoyears at a mid-major and done
well.
Or you can bring in an18-year-old kid who probably is
(36:57):
going to want to stick aroundmore than a year, right.
So it's like if you're a toptop player, you're fine, but
anybody outside, like the top7,500 in the country, they're
far more likely to start at alower level.
The opportunities are there,but you're going to have to
start at a lower level and proveyourself.
That's just the math.
Speaker 2 (37:17):
Where did your love of basketball come from?
Speaker 1 (37:20):
Well, I went to Duke.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
I've heard of Duke Class of 1992.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
So I was in the same class as Christian Laettner
During my four years at Duke.
They went to four Final Fours,they played in three Final Games
and they won two nationalchampionships.
So I've often said that somedayI'm going to write a book about
my undergraduate experience atDuke and the title is going to
be I hate Christian Leitner too,but I mean it was great.
(37:50):
I mean you knew.
It's not often that you knowthat history is really taking
place before your eyes and it'sa small campus.
So those guys are my friends.
I mentioned about my dad beingat Yale.
He was close friends withCalvin Hill at Yale, a great
football player, and andCalvin's son, grant of course,
was a great player at Duke,arguably the best player at Duke
(38:12):
, and so he and I were greatfriends.
And Bobby Hurley was around ourfraternity a lot and now he's
the coach at Arizona State.
So I was always a big sportsfan I.
To be at Duke for thatexperience really sort of put me
in the in the collegebasketball space.
And then when I got to sportsillustrated Casey they didn't
(38:32):
really have.
They had good collegebasketball writers but they
didn't have like a nuts andbolts, granular beat guy.
So I saw that real estate and Ijust jumped into it.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
Wow, that's very cool .
A couple last questions beforeI let you go.
If you had to think of one areaof your dad game, seth, I mean,
obviously you got two kids hookthem horns at Texas You've seen
a lot.
You've probably been through alot.
What would be an area of yourdad game that might relate to
dad's a home that you've learnedmaybe was a gap for you that
(39:06):
you've worked hard to get betterat.
For me I can leave my witnesshere.
For me, my gap afterinterviewing 300 dads has really
helped me become more patientas a father.
That was, I mean as acompetitive person.
That was always my weakness.
Never was the best me.
But, like for you, tell me whatcomes to mind for you and your
dad game.
Speaker 1 (39:24):
Yeah, patience is definitely um, always going to
be a struggle.
Um, I think if you ask my Ithink my son's probably had the
better answer to this question.
I think maybe they would startwith fashion.
Uh, they're critical of myfashion choices and, um, you
know what I'm wearing.
You know, especially my shoegame.
My shoe game gets a lot of lotof bad, a lot of bad press in my
(39:46):
house.
Um, but, um, you know, I thinkI'm, I'm actually um, easy, uh,
forgive my dogs, that's allright, we're dog family.
Um, you know, I uh, I'm kind ofintroverted.
I sorry we have to deliver atthe front door.
(40:07):
I'm kind of introverted.
So when I go to a game withthem or like a party or a dinner
party, I'm not always lookingto be like the most social guy.
I'm actually probably wouldsurprise you, given what I do
for a living, but I'm not goodat remembering names.
I actually have I forget thename of it Propaganda or
(40:28):
something like that Probably aslight um version of a.
We have a hard time rememberingfaces.
Like I have a very hard timeremembering faces.
It's a problem because I'll youknow um, so so I'm a little
detached sometimes in thatregard from from the world
around us.
I'm never detached from my kids.
I mean, I think my kids knowthat I'm always available for
(40:50):
them.
I'm always there to listen.
You know another name drop Bestparenting advice I ever got.
This is a good one to leave on.
Best parenting advice I evergot was from Bill Walton, god
rest.
I was interviewing him and wewere talking about he had four
sons who played collegebasketball.
Of course, luke played atArizona, played in the NBA,
(41:11):
coach in the NBA, but all fourof his sons were really good
players and obviously comingthrough high school and he went
to other games and he said tothem I will never come to you to
talk to you about basketball.
I will never come to you andcritique your game.
If you want to come to you totalk to you about basketball, I
will never come to you andcritique your game.
If you want to come to me andask me questions, I'll talk
about it for as long as you want, but you have to come to me.
(41:33):
So there'll be times when oneof them would have a bad game
and he might have very strongopinions about what they did or
why they had a bad game, but hewould wait and they would take a
couple of days and then come tothem.
What do you think?
My oldest son, zach, is a Texasand communications major.
He's into sports writing andsports casting.
(41:53):
He's covering the football teamfor the Daily Texan.
This fall they're going to beArch Manning era is underway and
you know, I try to say the samething he's very good about.
Like he wants me to criticizehis writing or this and that,
and I'm always like, are yousure?
Like I don't want, like I don'twant to be that dad, like I'm
here to help as much as you wantme to help.
Yeah, I don't want to imposethat and that becomes very
(42:17):
difficult.
Um, as a parent, we weretalking about letting your kids
struggle and have their ownexperience.
Um, I think that's important inall things.
Speaker 2 (42:31):
I love that.
I love that there.
Ironically, I mentioned SwenNader in a minute.
I got interviewed him and hetold stories about Bill and
Coach Wooden and the book thatSwen wrote was you've not taught
until they have learned Right,and it's so powerful and that
book hit me big time during 2020.
And I was one of those parentsdoing way too much for my kids
Didn't realize it, and COVIDallowed me to slow down.
I'm like I got to stop doingthis.
What do you want for lunch?
(42:52):
Make it yourself.
I really want cold turkey theother way, but I think that's
great advice you left on Beforewe go into a quick lightning
round.
If people want to learn moreabout Hoops HQ, they want to
learn more about your writingyour books.
Tell me what's the best waypeople can follow you and your
work.
Speaker 1 (43:09):
Well, I would say hoopshqcom is our website.
Thanks for the plug.
And otherwise I'm pretty active, too active on Twitter.
That's something, by the way, Iyou know I lecture them all the
time about staying off theirphones.
I'm terrible at it and I'm onTwitter all the time, and
Twitter is is a horribleaddiction.
(43:30):
I do need it for my work, butnot nearly as much as I use it,
Um, but I am on Twitter at, at,uh, Seth Davis hoops, so that's
a good place to find me as well,awesome.
Speaker 2 (43:40):
I will make sure that's a tag in the show notes,
seth.
It's now time to go intolightning round.
This is a quick thing where Ishow you the negative hits of
taking too many hits in collegenot bong hits, but football hits
.
Your job is to answer thesequestions as quickly as you can.
My job is, hopefully, get agiggle out of you.
Go, okay.
What would you rather have?
Three point hook shot for agame win or a granny shot from
(44:00):
half court?
Half Court, okay.
Half Court Grand Shot.
Favorite basketball movie ofall time is Hoop Dreams, okay.
Speaker 1 (44:11):
Last book you read is the Inside Game by Steve Magnus
.
Okay.
Speaker 2 (44:16):
Your dream starting five of all time would be.
Speaker 1 (44:21):
Oh goodness, kareem, Magic Michael, the last, last
LeBron.
It's hard to it's between Larryand Kobe, isn't it?
Yeah, I don't want to getkilled, I'm going to say Larry.
Speaker 2 (44:37):
Okay, hey, kobe could be six man of the year.
Rest in peace, kobe.
Right, if I came to your housefor dinner tonight, what would
we have?
Rib eye steaks.
I'm good on that big green egg,okay, um if there was to be a
(44:59):
book written about your life.
Tell me the title Um, wonderful, Wonderful, Love it.
So you're in LA, which is goingto be easy to make this movie,
because wherever I'm trying tobuy wonderful, it's sold out.
I mean Amazon sold out Barnesand Noble airports this thing's
flying off the shelves.
Netflix now wants to make amovie.
You are now the castingdirector.
Tell me who's going to starSeth Davis in this critically
acclaimed, hit new movie SidneySweeney.
There we go.
(45:19):
And then, last question tell metwo words All about marketing.
There we go.
And then, last question Tell metwo words, all about marketing.
Speaker 1 (45:24):
There we go.
Speaker 2 (45:25):
Tell me two words that would describe your wife
Beautiful and kind, beautifuland kind.
Boom Lighting round is over.
I laughed at some of my ownjokes, which I always do, so I'm
going to take the loss.
So it has been an absolutehonor spending time with you.
I think you do great work.
As an adopted basketball guythrough my daughter, I love
(45:47):
watching college basketball andit's been fun to follow you and
hopefully that people will checkout a few of your books.
I know I'm going to read thebook about Sister Jean, 106
years old, at Loyola Marymount,loyola, chicago, so I can't wait
to read that.
I'm going to leave a review onAmazon when I finish, but I'm
grateful for our time and I hopeour paths cross again in the
future.
Appreciate you, I'm sure itwill.
Speaker 1 (46:06):
Thank you Casey, thank you Emmanuel.
Hi, I'm Riley and I'm Ryder and this is my dad show.
Hey, everybody, it's CaseyJaycox with the quarterback dad
cast.
Welcome to season six, and Icould not be more excited to
have you join me for anotheryear of fantastic episodes and
conversations really unscriptedand raw and authentic
(00:24):
conversations with dads.
If you're new to this podcast,really it's simple.
It's a podcast where weinterview dads, we learn about
how they were raised, we learnabout the life lessons that were
important to them, we learnabout the values that are
important to them and really welearn about how we can work hard
to become a better quarterbackor leader of our home.
So let's sit back, relax andlisten to today's episode on the
Quarterback Dadcast.
(00:45):
Well, hey, everybody, it'sCasey Jaycox with the
Quarterback Dadcast.
We are in season six and we'regoing to finish the year strong
with a fantastic guest that onlycomes to us because of the kind
Emmanuel Kramer, of mywonderful client, tier four.
So, betsy Robinson, thank youfor hiring Emmanuel, because if
you don't, there's no way I getthis next guest on.
(01:07):
His name is Seth Davis, and ifyou know anything about
basketball, if you followanything about basketball, you
know who he is.
He's the editor in chief ofHoops HQ.
He's the host of CBS and TurnerSports March Madness 22 years
he wrote for Sports Illustrated,six years for the Athletic.
He's written nine books.
I just ordered one about sistergene.
He's also written about thefamous john wooden and if you
(01:27):
follow this podcast you knowthat I interviewed swen nader,
who played for john wooden,which was a fantastic story.
But with all that, that's notwhy we're having seth on.
We're going to interview seththe dad, learn how he's working
hard to become the ultimatequarterback, maybe point guard,
of his household.
So without further ado, mrdavis, welcome to the Dadcast.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Good to be with you, casey.
And a shout out as well toEmanuel.
She's truly one of the specialpeople in my life, so when she
says jump, I say how high.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
God, I'm grateful.
Well, we always start out eachepisode gratitude, so tell me,
what are you most grateful foras a dad today?
Speaker 1 (02:07):
You know, the first thing I do when I wake up, casey
, is thank God that I'mbreathing, I'm alive, I got a
chance to be a dad.
Not everybody woke up thismorning.
And so you say let's begrateful in the small moments
and the small things, but that'sa pretty big thing.
Let's start with the big thingsand then we'll work our way down
to the small things.
So I'm always grateful for theopportunity to attack the day
(02:30):
and be the best version ofmyself that day.
And sometimes I'm not in.
I'm not a great version, I'mnot always at my best.
Most of the time we're not atour best.
But if you're intentional aboutit and you're mindful about it,
then you got a chance.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
If you're intentional about it and you're mindful
about it, then you got a chance.
So this is maybe the universespeaking to us, my man, because
this, as you can see, everyoneat home can't.
But this is a journal and, seth, we did not for the record,
everybody, we did not talk aboutthis, but it gave me goosebumps
when you said that.
So every morning, when I wakeup, the first line of my journal
is God, thanks for waking me up.
Today that's it Same thing, andwhen I say it I find myself
(03:05):
smiling.
So I'm going to say I'mgrateful for that, but I'm also
grateful we joked about thisbefore we record but I'm
grateful for my daughter's AAUjourney is over and grateful for
the experiences, the memories,but I'm grateful that thing's
over and get some money back.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
Oh goodness, money and time, although you know it's
.
I mean, we could do a wholeshow on just how awful youth
sports is in America.
But you and I are part of theproblem because we're going to
complain about how bad it is.
Yet we pointed up the cash,didn't we?
We fed the beast, didn't we?
I mean, they know how desperatewe are to get our kids out of
(03:44):
the house and off the phone andhave some type of experience
where they're competing, they'retraining, they're working hard,
they're connecting with kidstheir age.
So it's still a net plus, butit is bonkers, how dumb we are
in this country when it comes toyouth sports.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Yeah, there's a lot of challenges.
I find that some of my friendswho played either played or
around it their perspective is alittle bit different.
Like I try to be not one thatlives vicariously through my
kids and both my kids are goodat sports that I was not good at
at least when they're their age.
Like my son, he's now playinggolf in college.
(04:19):
My daughter's going to playhoop.
I am not going to playbasketball because I don't want
to blow an Achilles.
I will play horse and getrolled up by my daughter, but,
um, it's just so funny howpeople get so wrapped up into
that and it's like, just wedon't have an outcome, we're not
going to be able to influenceit and it's gotta be their idea,
whatever they choose to do.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
Um, so I've just really worked hard on that and I
think, having this podcast forsix years has definitely helped
talk to other dads and just like, let's, you know, therapy each
other through this journey.
Yeah, and I think it's.
Look, we see a lot of badbehavior from parents, frankly,
(05:01):
or unproductive behavior,unhealthy behavior, but you know
, it's all from love, right?
Like you know, I always I tryto teach my kids.
You know, when somebody hurtsthem or annoys them or pisses
them off or does them wrong,like let's start with the most
charitable explanation for that,and to me it they love their
kids and they want their kids todo well and they want their
kids to be happy and they wanttheir kids to be successful.
But I think we as parents toooften lose sight of just how
(05:24):
important the struggle is.
Like I had, I had a eurekamoment, like your kids are in
college now, casey.
I was taking my oldest son,zach, and we were visiting
various campuses and, by the wayyou know, I say to parents like
, do the campus tour.
It's great bonding, it's somuch fun and you can see them
really thinking about theirfuture and being excited about
(05:44):
their future, their greatexperiences.
But at a certain point Irealized all we talk about is,
you know, pick the school whereyou're going to be the most
happy, like pick where you'regoing to be most happy, that's
what you should pick.
I actually think there's abetter question than that.
The better question is pick thebest place for you to struggle,
because you're going tostruggle.
And so I think we, as parents,forget just how valuable, how
(06:07):
important the struggle is and tolet them have their own
struggle.
Let them have their ownexperience, their own setbacks.
I lost a game.
I, you know, I let in a goal.
I, I missed the final shot.
Kids were mean to me.
I, you know I lost my temperand got attacked.
I got dejected Like I've got.
You know, my youngest is a verycompetitive kid and he's had
(06:28):
his moments, and so I just thinkagain, the most charitable
explanation is parents lovetheir kids.
They feel like it's their jobto prevent their kids from
experiencing emotional pain,like that's way worse than a
broken bone is emotional pain.
But pain is a part of life andif they don't experience a
(06:50):
basketball game, a soccer game,some type of youth sport, is the
best place for them to struggle, because one way or another
it's going to be okay 100%.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
I couldn't agree more and I think of all the
heartache or frustration that Iface through sports.
It totally prepared me forcorporate America.
I mean from injuries tothrowing four picks and a half
and getting booed to when thesun came up the next day and I
just always Four picks and ahalf is pretty bad.
(07:24):
I was not good, that was.
That was probably the worstgame I ever played.
Thankfully, I did play well inthe second half to not throw
three touchdowns.
We came back a little bit, butsome days, yeah, some days, I
was just not not good, you know.
But in the end I had so manygreat mentors.
My parents made sure that I didnot tie the outcome of a game
to who I was as a person, right.
Um, that same thing has helpedme in life.
I have to share that with mykids, reminding them that, hey,
(07:46):
like my son who golf, whichpicked a sport that's brutally
hard and you're by yourself andit's so easy to think, oh my God
, I didn't shoot 72.
You know who cares?
It's not.
No one really cares.
All you can do is control whatyou can control.
Work your ass off and be yourbest, and then tomorrow's a new
day and we'll see what that newday brings.
But it is interesting to see,like you know, letting our kids
(08:09):
fail and letting them do it,which is hard to do, but it's
what shapes all of us.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Yeah, and it's, it's keeping the big picture
experience.
I've been noodling on thisthing.
I haven't really taken itpublic yet, but I call it my
tree of why.
Um, you know we talk about why,like you know what's your
purpose, why are you here?
You know this sort of this sortof upper crust value of that,
but I'm talking when I talk to,like, the athletes, college
(08:34):
athletes, like, literally, why,right, why are you doing this?
Think about, you've madeplaying this sport the whole
centerpiece of your life.
All the, all the money, all thetime, all the money, all the
time, all the effort, all thepain, all the struggle, why?
And at the top of the tree ofwhy, on one side is process and
the other side is results, andit's very important.
(08:56):
I believe, Casey, that you haveto make that decision before
you step onto the field, beforeyou step onto the court, before
you sign up for the club, beforeyou try out for the team and
parents and and kids and spousesand coaches.
And why are we doing this?
Why are you doing this?
If you're doing it to get acertain result.
(09:17):
So on the on the process sideof the tree, I have persistence,
perseverance, growth.
I have persistence,perseverance, growth, pure
intentions that's your thing.
Under pure intentions I haverelationships, not transactions.
Life is not a transactionGratitude, letting go, which is
different than giving up, andthen, ultimately, peace of mind,
(09:38):
which is the definition ofsuccess from John Wooden.
So John Wooden had the pyramidof success.
He defined success as peace ofmind that comes from the
self-satisfaction of knowingthat you did your best to become
the best that you're capable ofbecoming.
So most people come focus onfulfilling your potential, but I
always focus on peace of mind.
That's the ultimate goal inlife.
(09:59):
And then, on the result side ofthe tree, we have expectations,
comparison, which is, you know,is the thief of joy.
Fear, resentment, regret andultimately suffering.
Because sometimes, if you doall of this because you want a
certain result, the worst thingthat can happen for you is you
get that result.
What happens if you put in allthis time and all this effort to
(10:24):
become an NBA champion becauseyou think that's what's going to
make you happy?
Then, if you become an NBAchampion and you're still not
happy now, you're doubly screwed, Right, Right.
So process versus resultsthat's the, that's the initial
decision.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
So good man.
It's like this is fresh whatwe're talking about and I want
to get into you in a second, butI want to hit on something that
you said that made me thinkabout.
So I just dropped my son offhis second year of college and
the first year was frickingbrutal.
Like my kids always make fun ofme I'm the guy that cries in
movies and AT&T commercial, yeah.
But like I was like, oh, I'mgood this year and I was solo,
(10:59):
cause my wife was home with mydaughter and I literally with my
daughter and um, I, literallyhe left our hotel room.
He was going to go to play in agolf tournament and I like,
right when the door closed, itwas just like watershed again.
Like, oh, just hit me hardbecause I was like I'm not gonna
see my dude for like threemonths or well, it seemed like
if we go see him play.
But I told him right when I left.
I said there's three things Iwant you to just remember.
(11:19):
Like this year is like abelieve what you do matters.
That that's a big theme of ours.
That hit me at age 41, mucholder than that now but that
helps me in my coaching businessor speaking business.
But just like the word belief,I think too many kids don't
think about the power of that.
You believe in yourself, yougive yourself a chance to be
better.
And I said on the golf course Iwant you to commit to every
(11:41):
shot but, more importantly,commit to everything you do in
life with the most biggestintent and if you have the right
attitude and you commit fully,you can't control anything else.
And then, lastly, I saidpromise me that you remember the
most dangerous golf club inyour bag is not in your bag, but
it's your mind.
Your mind is your mostdangerous golf club in the bag.
And I said you can use thatwherever you go.
(12:03):
And we had this like amazingfather-son moment.
And then like he later he textsme, he goes dad, I wrote down
those three things, I put it onmy scorecard, on the back of my
scorecard, and I looked at everyshot and it totally helped me.
And he played in an event 180kids, 180 kids, adults took
fourth shot, two under, and hesaid, dad is because we worked
on my mind.
And so like I'm jealous of thatwith him because I didn't have
(12:27):
that and I was at his age.
And so now, like this is thegift, or my calling to be able
to help him and he can helpothers.
And, um, and if his dad'slistening right now, it's like
you don't need a podcast to havethese conversations.
You can go do it whenever youwant.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
Yeah.
So, I'd also emphasize to himthat those things apply whether
you shoot uh, shoot 82 or 68.
Certainly, if you shoot a badscore, you want to know why.
You want to sort of figure out,you want to dig in, you want to
go through your process, butyou can't attach yourself to the
(13:01):
outcome.
And it's actually interestingwhen you talk about his mind,
because I've thought about thisand written about this and
lectured about this a little bitLike.
To me, golf is the ultimate,because if you think about if we
took a round that your sonplays and we only took like
video of his hitting the balland we spliced it together, one
(13:22):
after another, actually strikinga golf ball, how long would
that video video be?
Maybe four minutes?
Sure, if that, four to fiveminutes, if that, yeah, a round
of golf takes four, four and ahalf hours, right, right.
So that's a lot of time tospend with your like.
(13:43):
I think we should name ourbrain.
I named my brain Uncle Billyfor the character in my favorite
movie, it's a Wonderful Life.
Like.
That's a lot of time with UncleBilly And's.
It's great that you'reencouraging him to do that work
before he starts his round.
Yeah, because when you're in itit's too late you're right, 100
.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Well, I learned a lot of that through.
I worked for um russellwilson's company for like a
brief year company calledlimitless minds and then I
actually interviewed I don'tknow if you know the guy named
mich Gervais- I know I was justwith him a few months ago.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Yeah, I know.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
So he was a former guest and I'm.
I love his work he does, andhim and Pete Harrell and um, uh,
so it's like I think these are.
These are things that I thinkso many people have the
opportunity to do.
It just takes a littleinvestment and might take get
yourself a little uncomfortableto get good at this stuff, but
I'm never going to be perfect.
(14:31):
Like you mentioned earlier, I'mon a, I'm on a growth pattern
and some days I'm going to begreat.
Some days I'm not going to begreat, but at least I have a
chance to like be humble, to behumble and vulnerable, to admit
it, and then be curious to findout why, and get better tomorrow
and as long as you're payingattention.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
You got a chance to do all that.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
Yeah 100%.
Well, bring me inside the Davishuddle.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
I'd love to know, maybe, how you and your wife met
, and then a little bit abouteach kid and what they're up to
right now.
My wife, honey, he wants toknow how we met.
We're having our.
What anniversary is coming up?
Is it 2019?
19th, oh, 24.
I'm bad at math.
Uh-oh, really, 24 years we'vebeen married.
It's like a real relationship.
(15:16):
Yeah, it was like a movie.
My wife's cousin is my bestfriend since childhood, like we
were literally in the same cribtogether, okay, and our families
were best friends.
We were best friends, and sohis sister was getting married
in Washington DC and so I wentto the wedding and, not going to
(15:38):
lie back in the day, I lookpretty good in a tuxedo Not
nowadays, not so much but westruck up a great and it turned
out, even though we were both inD DC, we both lived in New York
.
In fact, she lived across, or,excuse me, she worked across the
street from where I was atSports Illustrated and she was
working for a radio companyliterally across sixth Avenue,
(16:01):
so I could see, we could wave ateach other through our office
windows and, um, we just becamebest friends right at the start
and got married on um, if youcan believe, september 1st 2001
in New York city.
So it was kind of outdoors andyou can see the towers and some
of our wedding photos and um andso, uh, yeah, we have three
(16:24):
boys.
My oldest, uh, zach.
Like Emanuele, I have a Zach.
He's 21.
He's a senior at University ofTexas.
My middle one, noah, is 19,sophomore at the University of
Texas.
We're a Longhorn family.
And then my youngest, gabe, isa pretty intense baseball player
.
He's a sophomore in high schooland wants to be the next Otani,
(16:45):
which is fine with me.
So, yeah, we're a sports family.
I mean, they've grown up aroundsports.
As you can imagine, going tofinal fours and being in locker
rooms and you know watching, youknow it's great, I know you've
had this experience.
Like sports is is such a greattemplate of dialogue versus a
(17:07):
shared experience.
Going to games, watching thegames is fun, but there's all
kinds of morality plays, likewe're talking about Shadur
Sanders right now and everythingthat's going on with him and so
many interesting conversationsaround that.
Love it.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
Take me back to what was life like growing up for you
in, I believe, connecticut, ifI have my info right, maryland,
actually.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
That's why I know, I know, manuel, we went to the
same high school.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Okay.
Well, what was life likegrowing up for you?
And maybe talk about the impactmom and dad had on you.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
Yeah, well, my dad is a very well-known lawyer and
politico.
His name is Lanny Davis.
He went to um Yale law school,yale undergrad and Yale law
school.
Um was fraternity brothers withGeorge W Bush and was close
friends with uh then HillaryRodham and Bill Clinton.
Um, joe Lieberman, uh was hisbest friend Um, and he's not
(18:02):
really technically a godfatherum in the Jewish religion, but
he was my, my sandek at my brisk.
We won't go into details there.
So yeah, he was.
He's a very well-known politicalfigure, served in the Clinton
White House for a little over ayear, ran for Congress when he
was younger, didn't win and hasbecome, you know, very
(18:25):
well-known sort of talking headon cable TV.
Represented Michael Cohen.
If you look at the day thatMichael Cohen testified in front
of Congress with those hearingsthat everybody was watching, my
dad was literally sitting rightbehind him and I've gotten to
know him a little bit.
So, yeah, and you know my dad,our favorite movie growing up
(18:45):
was All the President's Men.
So I grew up with thisreverence of journalism and
reporters and also ofpoliticians.
Like nowadays we think ofpoliticians as you know, satan
incarnate and you know, uh, youor anyone else should be, ever
be looked upon and talked aboutthe way my dad talked about John
(19:07):
Kennedy.
You know I mean that was thebeacon of light.
So you know I was taught thatthese are important, impressive
people to be admired, you know,and so gave me an appreciation
for reading journalism history.
It took me.
We had season tickets to theRedskins games.
Emmanuel will tell you that Iwas the biggest Redskins fan in
our school and I was the kidwith the hog's nose, and here's
(19:29):
a great full circle moment foryou.
Forgive the name dropping, butyou asked so.
At my bar mitzvah we had aRedskins theme.
So Big Cake and SLD Stadium,the tickets, and every table was
a different player and when Iwas growing up, the ultimate
Redskin was John Riggins.
Right, he was the running backand he was a larger than life
(19:50):
character man.
He was like amazing.
So my head table, where I wassitting with all my friends, the
centerpiece was John Riggins.
So fast forward.
However, many years later, johnRiggins is hosting a radio show
in Washington and he DMs me onTwitter asking if I would be a
guest on his show to talk aboutthe NCAA tournament.
(20:11):
So of course I said yes and Iwent on and I said listen, rigo,
I know you were Super Bowl MVP,you're in the Hall of Fame, but
that is actually not yourgreatest achievement.
Your greatest achievement wasbeing the centerpiece for the
head table at my bar mitzvah.
That's when it becomes super.
And my mom, by the way, is avery interesting person.
She had non-Hodgkin's lymphoma,so she had it treated and then
(20:40):
it came back.
And you know when cancer comesback, that's when it gets really
scary.
And so she was able to cureherself, not only through
chemotherapy but through allkinds of health protocols,
because, as you know, whenpeople get cancer, oftentimes
it's the chemo that kills them,the treatment that kills them,
because you're trying to killthe cancer and helping them.
Because when you have chroniccondition, if your body gets to
(21:14):
a point where it becomeshospitable again to cancer, she
could get cancer.
She's 80 years old, and if shewalked into your room and I said
she's 80, you'd call me a liar.
She's amazing.
So she's been an inspiration aswell.
So I was blessed.
I chose my parents wisely.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
So good, can we give your mom's business a plug?
What's the name of the business?
Speaker 1 (21:37):
Her name is Elaine Gibson, G-I-B-S-O-N, and her
business is called RenewedLiving Inc.
Renewed Living Inc.
She is amazing.
She plays again.
She's 80.
She turned 80 in May.
She plays pickleball almostevery morning.
Lives in Virginia, Playspickleball almost every morning.
As long as it's 40 degrees orover, she's out there playing
(21:58):
pickleball, which I won't dobecause I'm afraid of getting
hurt.
Speaker 3 (22:02):
I will not play pickleball, because I just play
golf If I play pickleball.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
That's it.
That's why you don't playbasketball.
I tell friends our age, my age,hey, you can keep playing.
It's going to be an ACL or anAchilles, just so we know the
math.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
Speaking my language, seth, I tell my fitness goals
and people think I'm jokingthere's a little sarcasm, but
I'm dead serious To not get fatand to not get hurt.
Ah I like that Fight, shootthem.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
Yeah, I heard on a podcast a while ago it stuck
with me Someone kind of again inour age cohort.
He said my goals right now areto stay married, not get fat,
and be there for my kids.
Even better, yep.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
That's even better as you think about the values that
mom and dad taught you thatwere the most important that
you've now shared with your boys.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
Tell me what comes to mind Kindness, be kind.
You know my dad was kind of abig shot lawyer.
He had time for everybody,treated everybody amazingly well
.
I almost hesitate to share thisbecause I don't want this to
sound elitist, but he he had,you know, like his secretary
administrative assistant.
The secretary, many years ago,asked him to be the godfather of
(23:15):
his daughter.
Wow.
So I'll never forget going,going in there.
We were the only white peoplein the church and it was the
most beautiful ceremony and justsurrounded by love.
So just being a decent person,and they got that from their
parents.
You know, and you know just theimportance of family.
You know it's like the oldsaying that you know how do you,
(23:35):
how do you spell love T-I-M-E.
You know there's no substitutefor just showing up.
We all want quality time.
Well, quantity of time isimportant too.
You don't have to be settingrecords every second of the day.
Just show up, just show up.
So keep things simple like that.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
No, I love that man.
It's funny how, like when you,when I've shared this before
like on the show, but like earlyin my corporate journey, things
were going great for thebusiness, for me from a
financial perspective, but froma dad perspective I was
miserable and because I wasn'tgetting the time on my kids, I'd
get home at 645.
(24:14):
They're in bed by seven.
I'm so I'm not seeing thembefore work, I'm not seeing them
before they go to bed.
And I remember going to my bossand I was like I know that you
guys like this, but this sucks.
I'm miserable.
She's like, what's how?
What do you want to do?
I'm like I mean, can we?
She's like, why don't you leaveit?
For?
I'm like I don't work for abank, I can't leave it for.
She's like, why not?
You don't trust us.
I said, no, I trust you guys.
She goes, leave it for, beavailable in your cell.
(24:34):
And you made me think thatstory because, like I once I
committed to like from like fiveto seven, having really good
dad, and I was, I was, you know,and I was like a present as a
(24:55):
leader of my company, but Icould, I was great, very
grateful that my boss shout outto.
Angela.
Veronica gave me theopportunity to do that and you
know I think sometimes parents Isee this even, like in the
coaching work I do they don'trealize that like if you don't
work on you at home, you're notgoing to be a best version of
(25:17):
you at work.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
Sooner or later you're going to break, and this
is what I've talked to coachesand leaders and corporate
leaders about.
What was your boss's name?
Angela Aronica.
Angela Aronica, she acted outof pure selfishness in a good
way, and this is when I talkabout my tree of why pure
intentions, be of service, be ofservice.
(25:40):
No-transcript made you a betteremployee and made the business
better?
Yep, right.
And so if you have truly pureintentions you know I write
about your body's a battery,right.
Like we have electricitycoursing through our body.
There's EKGs and EAGs and alphaand gamma waves, like it's
we're batteries.
And so when someone says, man,I got a weird vibe from that
(26:02):
person, then you just imaginethat that actually
electronically happened and soyou can't act one way and be
thinking another in your headand your heart.
So if her intentions weren'tpure, she's like you know what?
Casey, right now, casey needsto be a better dad and even if
there's a short-term loss thatI'm taking on that, the
(26:25):
long-term upside is much bigger.
Starting with, if somebodywanted to hire you away and
you're a valuable employee andthey said, hey, man, we want to
pay you more, but you got towork till seven every night.
Or you're going to say, well,okay, that's great, but I'll
leave at four to be with my kids, well, no, well, I don't want
to leave a boss who truly caresfor me 100%.
(26:46):
I'm dealing with this withbasketball coaches in this whole
transfer portal thing.
You know, and like mid-majorcoaches get frustrated because
they have a player who's reallygood hard to get a good player
at that level and now the bigboys want to come poaching them.
And I always say, lean intothat.
Lean into that when you'rerecruiting a player, saying,
instead of going to Kansas,where you're going to ride the
(27:07):
bench, come play for me in twoyears.
And I'm going to call the coachof Kansas and tell him he
should recruit you.
And, by the way, if you don'twant to be here, I'm going to
help you get.
Where do you want to go?
I'll help you.
I want what's good for you.
I don't want what's good for me.
Guess what that is good for youas a coach, because he's going
to be in a locker room withsomebody.
(27:30):
Or now you're dealing withagents.
You say, well, what about thatcoach Casey?
Well, great guy, man, I wantedto leave and he helped me.
Really I want to play for thatguy.
Your boss was selfish in thebest way.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
Yeah, no, it's good.
That's what's fun to reflectabout these moments, these flash
moments or moments that reallyimpacted people.
Speaker 3 (27:57):
Hi, I'm Betsy Robinson, CEO of Tier 4 Group, a
women-owned anddiversity-certified technology
recruiting and executive searchfirm that connects exceptional
talent with extraordinarycompanies in 43 states across
the US.
At Tier 4 Group, relationshipsare at the heart of everything
we do, Whether it's with ourclients, our candidates, our
(28:19):
vendor partners or with eachother.
Our mission is to go beyondtransactions and create
long-lasting partnerships.
We don't just help companiesfind talent, we help them find
the right talent, and thatstarts with truly understanding
our clients and candidates.
It's not just about fillingroles.
It's about fostering successfor the long-term.
(28:41):
This is the recipe for successthat's landed us on the Inc 5000
six consecutive years and hasus outpacing our competition
across the country, and I'mthrilled to support Casey Jay
Cox's podcast.
Casey's philosophy alignsperfectly with ours prioritizing
relationships over transactions.
(29:01):
His insights on building trust,empathy and connection resonate
deeply with the way we dobusiness at Tier 4 Group.
We were honored to have Caseyas our keynote at our 2024
kickoff, and all of our newhires read his book Win the
Relationship, Not the Deal, whenthey start here with us.
So if you're looking for apartner who values relationships
(29:24):
as much as results, so ifyou're looking for a partner who
values relationships as much asresults.
Visit us at tier4groupcom orconnect with me, Betsy Robinson,
directly on LinkedIn and, whileyou're at it, keep tuning into
Casey's podcast.
You'll walk away inspired tostrengthen your own
relationships, both personallyand professionally.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
And as Casey, always says stay curious.
I would love, I want to.
I want to get into transferportal.
I want to be respectful of yourtime because that could take a
long.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
I told you I go a little long.
Once I get rolling you can'tshut me up, so don't worry about
that, Go ahead.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
Well, I, you know I've talked about transfer
portal with other dads andthere's so much as a former
college athlete, I there'sthings I like about it and
there's things I don't likeabout it.
The things I don't like aboutit from a maybe a corporate
perspective is it doesn't allow,sometimes, kids to go through
the struggle.
It's, it's, it's the quick hey,I'm not playing, I'm going to
(30:15):
quit and go, I'm going totransfer here and now.
That what, what society doesn'ttalk about.
Maybe you'd probably I don'tknow how you feel, but like, the
number of kids in the portal isprobably insurmountable versus
the number of kids who actuallyhave success and go place in
these places.
At least, that's like myperception from like just
watching media.
But I just wish that there wasa way that kids could still get
(30:37):
paid, they could transfer if thesituation is right, but there's
also a little bit of skin inthe game so they can't just keep
the one and done and bounceback and forth.
So I don't again, I don't wantto know what your thoughts are
on that, but like I, just I wantour kids to be able to kind of
we talked about in the beginningto deal with the resilience and
I just don't know if the portal, maybe you can educate me,
maybe I'm clueless of what I'mtalking about.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
But no, no, no.
I think fundamental question iswho gets to make that decision
right, whether to be resilientor not resilient, whether to
stick it out or you know, a lotof times there's good reasons to
leave.
I can give you a long, long,long, long, long list of players
whose lives changed becausethey transferred to a different
situation and it worked out muchbetter for them and changed the
course of their life.
There's a long list of playerswho did exactly what you said.
(31:30):
They didn't want to stick itout, and you know I try to not
that they don't know this, butI've talked to these coaches
about having come through theyouth sports culture.
Like, by the time these kidsget to college, it's too late to
instill that.
And, by the way, it starts withthe youth sports.
Okay, so my sons?
Now they have my DNA.
(31:51):
Okay, so there's a low ceilingthere.
They ain't playing for MichiganState or they ain't playing.
You know, my youngest wants toplay college baseball and I want
him to chase it.
I would never put a cap on him,but he's got my DNA, so.
But here's the thing.
So my middle son early on wasplaying soccer and he said he
wanted to be a goalie and I saidgreat, noah, you have my full
(32:16):
support, I'll get you training.
Like you know, we have themeans to do that.
Great, but just understandsomething Don't play goalie
unless you can handle gettingscored on, because that's what
gets them.
It's going to happen a lot,right?
So anyway, again my DNA.
And he was a late bloomer.
He was very small for his age.
I'm telling you, casey, I thinkhe was 10 and he was playing
(32:37):
for this team and doing allright, doing his best, whatever,
not a super high level team,like the coach, like the parents
.
You know what happened.
The coach cut him and found anew goalie for the next season
and he said we had theconversation.
He said I'm sorry, he's toosmall, he was 10.
He was 10.
And not a one of those kids isplaying in college.
(32:59):
So we bounced around to a lot ofdifferent teams coming up
through the youth sports circuit, not our decision, not our
decision.
Sometimes they get cut and then, you know, end up on a team and
my oldest son one time said tome this team sucks, I hate this
team, it's terrible.
I'm like, well, if this teamwere much better, you probably
wouldn't be on it.
So, right, like, let's just,let's just do our best here.
(33:26):
So the point is that it goestwo ways.
A lot of college coaches, casey, will preach the value of
sticking with it, but thenthey'll recruit a player, or
they'll bring him in one season,two seasons, maybe he's not
panning out.
Guess what they do?
They go to the portal and theybring in someone over him.
So now you're asking him tostay, but you're not going to
stick it out with him.
So there's a lot going on.
(33:47):
I will agree that.
You know the pendulum has, as isoften the case with progress
and change, especially suddenhas swung way too much in the
opposite direction.
It used to be that basketballwas one of only four sports
where there was no uh, what theycall a one-time exception where
you can transfer out and playright away the first time.
(34:09):
So if you're a basketballplayer, anytime you transferred
you had to sit out.
So first they got rid of thatand said okay, the first time
you transfer you don't have tosit out.
Subsequent times.
You do have to sit out, unlessyou apply for a hardship waiver,
if there's a real reason tochange.
You have a sick relative.
Well, guess what?
It was a massive healthepidemic in the country because
(34:32):
everybody all of a sudden had anuncle with cancer and they had
to transfer so and then it waschallenging in legal courts and
so now they can transfer asoften as they want without
having to sit out.
Now you throw NIL into it andthat money is heavily skewed
towards the portal becausethey're essentially free agents
and the market exploded.
That's why you've had thetransfers rampaging.
(34:55):
The way the system is set upand we don't need to get into
the weeds, but it's designed toreally drastically reduce the
financial payouts in the nextcycle, so there will probably be
fewer transfers.
There seems to be sort ofbroader agreement that it's a
better model.
Let them have that one-timeexception transfer the first
(35:17):
time without sitting out.
Subsequently, if you want totransfer you have to sit out,
and less exception for acoaching change or something
along those lines.
Because another another concernis the academic piece is when
you change schools, your, yourcredits don't always transfer.
So if you're hopping tomultiple schools, you're not
getting your degree.
In four or five years it's not.
Or if you are getting a degree,it's not, it doesn't.
(35:39):
You haven't taken real classes.
So there's been a lot ofseismic change in the college
sports space.
The transfer space, thetransfer, the transfer ramp of
transferring is definitely apart of it.
That you know.
They're just they're trying toput some of that toothpaste back
in the tube and it's not easy,wow no, that was good, that was
that was well said.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
It's good to have perspective.
I think it's good to, even ifpeople what you know dads, moms,
homes, you have perspectives onthings, be be curious to, to
understand all sides.
I always say there's threesides every story my side, your
side, the truth.
And unless you're in thosemeetings, you're in those things
it's tough to really truly knowwhat's going on.
So but I think, yeah, you'reright, there's, there's always
(36:21):
some folks that have greatexperience, some that don't have
good experience, and I justhope my big goal or wish
downstream is that it doesn'timpact the high school senior
too much with the portal andreduce opportunities for them
downstream.
Speaker 1 (36:35):
That's definitely what's happening, because these
coaches would much rather coacholder players and guys who are
proven Job security.
Yeah Well, if you're, you knowyou can bring in somebody who's
20 years old and has played twoyears at a mid-major and done
well.
Or you can bring in an18-year-old kid who probably is
(36:57):
going to want to stick aroundmore than a year, right.
So it's like if you're a toptop player, you're fine, but
anybody outside, like the top7,500 in the country, they're
far more likely to start at alower level.
The opportunities are there,but you're going to have to
start at a lower level and proveyourself.
That's just the math.
Speaker 2 (37:17):
Where did your love of basketball come from?
Speaker 1 (37:20):
Well, I went to Duke.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
I've heard of Duke Class of 1992.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
So I was in the same class as Christian Laettner
During my four years at Duke.
They went to four Final Fours,they played in three Final Games
and they won two nationalchampionships.
So I've often said that somedayI'm going to write a book about
my undergraduate experience atDuke and the title is going to
be I hate Christian Leitner too,but I mean it was great.
(37:50):
I mean you knew.
It's not often that you knowthat history is really taking
place before your eyes and it'sa small campus.
So those guys are my friends.
I mentioned about my dad beingat Yale.
He was close friends withCalvin Hill at Yale, a great
football player, and andCalvin's son, grant of course,
was a great player at Duke,arguably the best player at Duke
(38:12):
, and so he and I were greatfriends.
And Bobby Hurley was around ourfraternity a lot and now he's
the coach at Arizona State.
So I was always a big sportsfan I.
To be at Duke for thatexperience really sort of put me
in the in the collegebasketball space.
And then when I got to sportsillustrated Casey they didn't
(38:32):
really have.
They had good collegebasketball writers but they
didn't have like a nuts andbolts, granular beat guy.
So I saw that real estate and Ijust jumped into it.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
Wow, that's very cool .
A couple last questions beforeI let you go.
If you had to think of one areaof your dad game, seth, I mean,
obviously you got two kids hookthem horns at Texas You've seen
a lot.
You've probably been through alot.
What would be an area of yourdad game that might relate to
dad's a home that you've learnedmaybe was a gap for you that
(39:06):
you've worked hard to get betterat.
For me I can leave my witnesshere.
For me, my gap afterinterviewing 300 dads has really
helped me become more patientas a father.
That was, I mean as acompetitive person.
That was always my weakness.
Never was the best me.
But, like for you, tell me whatcomes to mind for you and your
dad game.
Speaker 1 (39:24):
Yeah, patience is definitely um, always going to
be a struggle.
Um, I think if you ask my Ithink my son's probably had the
better answer to this question.
I think maybe they would startwith fashion.
Uh, they're critical of myfashion choices and, um, you
know what I'm wearing.
You know, especially my shoegame.
My shoe game gets a lot of lotof bad, a lot of bad press in my
(39:46):
house.
Um, but, um, you know, I thinkI'm, I'm actually um, easy, uh,
forgive my dogs, that's allright, we're dog family.
Um, you know, I uh, I'm kind ofintroverted.
I sorry we have to deliver atthe front door.
(40:07):
I'm kind of introverted.
So when I go to a game withthem or like a party or a dinner
party, I'm not always lookingto be like the most social guy.
I'm actually probably wouldsurprise you, given what I do
for a living, but I'm not goodat remembering names.
I actually have I forget thename of it Propaganda or
(40:28):
something like that Probably aslight um version of a.
We have a hard time rememberingfaces.
Like I have a very hard timeremembering faces.
It's a problem because I'll youknow um, so so I'm a little
detached sometimes in thatregard from from the world
around us.
I'm never detached from my kids.
I mean, I think my kids knowthat I'm always available for
(40:50):
them.
I'm always there to listen.
You know another name drop Bestparenting advice I ever got.
This is a good one to leave on.
Best parenting advice I evergot was from Bill Walton, god
rest.
I was interviewing him and wewere talking about he had four
sons who played collegebasketball.
Of course, luke played atArizona, played in the NBA,
(41:11):
coach in the NBA, but all fourof his sons were really good
players and obviously comingthrough high school and he went
to other games and he said tothem I will never come to you to
talk to you about basketball.
I will never come to you andcritique your game.
If you want to come to you totalk to you about basketball, I
will never come to you andcritique your game.
If you want to come to me andask me questions, I'll talk
about it for as long as you want, but you have to come to me.
(41:33):
So there'll be times when oneof them would have a bad game
and he might have very strongopinions about what they did or
why they had a bad game, but hewould wait and they would take a
couple of days and then come tothem.
What do you think?
My oldest son, zach, is a Texasand communications major.
He's into sports writing andsports casting.
(41:53):
He's covering the football teamfor the Daily Texan.
This fall they're going to beArch Manning era is underway and
you know, I try to say the samething he's very good about.
Like he wants me to criticizehis writing or this and that,
and I'm always like, are yousure?
Like I don't want, like I don'twant to be that dad, like I'm
here to help as much as you wantme to help.
Yeah, I don't want to imposethat and that becomes very
(42:17):
difficult.
Um, as a parent, we weretalking about letting your kids
struggle and have their ownexperience.
Um, I think that's important inall things.
Speaker 2 (42:31):
I love that.
I love that there.
Ironically, I mentioned SwenNader in a minute.
I got interviewed him and hetold stories about Bill and
Coach Wooden and the book thatSwen wrote was you've not taught
until they have learned Right,and it's so powerful and that
book hit me big time during 2020.
And I was one of those parentsdoing way too much for my kids
Didn't realize it, and COVIDallowed me to slow down.
I'm like I got to stop doingthis.
What do you want for lunch?
(42:52):
Make it yourself.
I really want cold turkey theother way, but I think that's
great advice you left on Beforewe go into a quick lightning
round.
If people want to learn moreabout Hoops HQ, they want to
learn more about your writingyour books.
Tell me what's the best waypeople can follow you and your
work.
Speaker 1 (43:09):
Well, I would say hoopshqcom is our website.
Thanks for the plug.
And otherwise I'm pretty active, too active on Twitter.
That's something, by the way, Iyou know I lecture them all the
time about staying off theirphones.
I'm terrible at it and I'm onTwitter all the time, and
Twitter is is a horribleaddiction.
(43:30):
I do need it for my work, butnot nearly as much as I use it,
Um, but I am on Twitter at, at,uh, Seth Davis hoops, so that's
a good place to find me as well,awesome.
Speaker 2 (43:40):
I will make sure that's a tag in the show notes,
seth.
It's now time to go intolightning round.
This is a quick thing where Ishow you the negative hits of
taking too many hits in collegenot bong hits, but football hits
.
Your job is to answer thesequestions as quickly as you can.
My job is, hopefully, get agiggle out of you.
Go, okay.
What would you rather have?
Three point hook shot for agame win or a granny shot from
(44:00):
half court?
Half Court, okay.
Half Court Grand Shot.
Favorite basketball movie ofall time is Hoop Dreams, okay.
Speaker 1 (44:11):
Last book you read is the Inside Game by Steve Magnus
.
Okay.
Speaker 2 (44:16):
Your dream starting five of all time would be.
Speaker 1 (44:21):
Oh goodness, kareem, Magic Michael, the last, last
LeBron.
It's hard to it's between Larryand Kobe, isn't it?
Yeah, I don't want to getkilled, I'm going to say Larry.
Speaker 2 (44:37):
Okay, hey, kobe could be six man of the year.
Rest in peace, kobe.
Right, if I came to your housefor dinner tonight, what would
we have?
Rib eye steaks.
I'm good on that big green egg,okay, um if there was to be a
(44:59):
book written about your life.
Tell me the title Um, wonderful, Wonderful, Love it.
So you're in LA, which is goingto be easy to make this movie,
because wherever I'm trying tobuy wonderful, it's sold out.
I mean Amazon sold out Barnesand Noble airports this thing's
flying off the shelves.
Netflix now wants to make amovie.
You are now the castingdirector.
Tell me who's going to starSeth Davis in this critically
acclaimed, hit new movie SidneySweeney.
There we go.
(45:19):
And then, last question tell metwo words All about marketing.
There we go.
And then, last question Tell metwo words, all about marketing.
Speaker 1 (45:24):
There we go.
Speaker 2 (45:25):
Tell me two words that would describe your wife
Beautiful and kind, beautifuland kind.
Boom Lighting round is over.
I laughed at some of my ownjokes, which I always do, so I'm
going to take the loss.
So it has been an absolutehonor spending time with you.
I think you do great work.
As an adopted basketball guythrough my daughter, I love
(45:47):
watching college basketball andit's been fun to follow you and
hopefully that people will checkout a few of your books.
I know I'm going to read thebook about Sister Jean, 106
years old, at Loyola Marymount,loyola, chicago, so I can't wait
to read that.
I'm going to leave a review onAmazon when I finish, but I'm
grateful for our time and I hopeour paths cross again in the
future.
Appreciate you, I'm sure itwill.
Speaker 1 (46:06):
Thank you Casey, thank you Emmanuel.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.