From Blocked Punts To Augusta: A Dad’s Journey Of Grit, Grace, And The Golden Bear - Joe Wessell

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A putter on a garage shelf became a doorway to memory, legacy, and what it means to lead at home. Coach and author Joe Wessel joins us to trace a winding path from a disciplined Miami childhood and Catholic schools to a walk-on grind at Florida State, summers learning from Miami Dolphins legends, and the day Jack Nicklaus confirmed the “lost” blade in Joe’s bag was White Fang—the putter that won the 1967 U.S. Open. Instead of asking for a shiny new set, Joe asked for something better: a father–son round at Augusta.

We talk about what built him: a mother who showed up at every game, a father who enforced persistence and faith, and a military prep school that hardened habits after loss. Joe shares the reality of earning a scholarship the hard way, becoming a special teams difference-maker, and absorbing leadership from many mentors in his life. The athletic details are rich—technique, timing, depth charts—but the bigger arc lands on fatherhood: discovering that the hero you searched for might have been at your own dinner table all along.

Parents and coaches will find practical wisdom here: don’t specialize your kids at 10, grow athletes, not resumes, protect the joy of play, and let your children write their own story. Say I’m sorry. Say I love you. Keep faith as a daily practice, not a performance. 

We close with the heart of Joe’s book, White Fang and the Golden Bear—a father–son journey that culminates at Augusta and proves that the best trophies are moments shared. If this conversation moved you, tap follow, share it with a friend who needs encouragement today, and leave a quick review so more families can find it.

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Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_02 (00:03):
Hi, I'm Riley.

SPEAKER_01 (00:04):
And I'm Ryder.
And this is my dad's Joe.
Hey everybody, it's Casey J.
Cox with the QuarterbackDadcast.
Welcome to season six.
And I cannot be more excited tohave you join me for another
year of fantastic episodes andconversations with unscripted
and raw and authenticconversations with dads.

(00:26):
If you're new to this podcast,really it's simple.
It's a podcast where weinterview dads, we learn about
how they were raised, we learnabout the life lessons that were
important to them, we learnabout the values that are
important to them, and really welearn about how we can work hard
to become a better quarterbackor leader of our home.
So let's sit back, relax, andlisten to today's episode of the
Quarterback Deckcast.

(00:46):
Well, hey everybody, it is KC J.
Cox with the Quarterback Dakast.
We are in the tail end of seasonsix, and I'm I'm grateful for
our next guest uh for manyfronts.
One, I'm actually grateful for aformer guest, and one only Steve
Gardy, who was a previous guestrecently, I'm sure you hopefully
know, and he's the author of thegreat book called Great Fruit.
And it was fun to hear a story.
And he uh he said, I got a greatguest for you, and and so that's

(01:08):
why we're talking to Joe Wessel,who is a Florida native.
He's a seminal.
Uh he he has, I will fact checkthis one, I think he has an NCAA
NCAA record for two block tunts,two block punts for touchdowns
in a game.
We're gonna hear about that.
He's an executive, he coachedcollege in NFL.
Um, he is the author of afantastic book called Um White

(01:32):
Fang and the Golden Bear.
If you're a golfer, if you're adad, if you're a football fan,
you will absolutely love thisbook.
But with all that said, that'snot why we're having Joe on.
We're having Joe on to talkabout Joe the Dad and how he has
or continues to work hard tobecome that ultimate quarterback
or leader of his household.
So without further ado, Mr.
Wessel, welcome to thequarterback dad cast.

SPEAKER_02 (01:50):
I appreciate your invite and uh glad, glad to be
here.

SPEAKER_01 (01:54):
Um you bet.
Well, I was actually, believe itor not, I I I mentioned we had
some nice fall weather and Isnuck out in the golf course
this afternoon, which doesn'talways happen midweek, but I I
made it happen and I was tellingmy buddy about you, who's a he's
a big diehard golf guy too.
And I said I told him a story,which we'll we'll get into
later, but he's like, Man, Ican't wait to read it.
So hopefully you just picked upanother another book sale out of

(02:15):
out of today.

SPEAKER_02 (02:16):
So as I as I tell everybody, uh I hope they enjoy
the read and and bring a box ofKleenex with you, just in case.

SPEAKER_01 (02:26):
Well, Joe, we always start out each episode with
gratitude.
So tell me, what are you mostgrateful for as a dad today?

SPEAKER_02 (02:32):
I am so grateful for just life in general.
Uh and uh grateful to be on thispodcast.
Uh but uh my my life has beensuch a uh an up and down roller
coaster.
It's kind of like the stockmarket goes up, down, and just
hoping that my uh my my life andmy faith patterns they go up and

(02:56):
down, but as long as it keepsgoing up, that's all I care
about.
But uh I'm just thankful for theLord and thankful for all the
He's given me, and I couldn't doit without my wife and my kids
and my family.
So uh that's what I'm gratefulfor.

SPEAKER_01 (03:11):
Great answer.
Well, I'm I'm grateful for we'rewe're recording everybody in uh
uh late October, and it was asomber night in Seattle last
night as my beloved SeattleMariners uh lost to the Blue
Jays, and it was just sopainful.
So we're um we're coming offthat, but I'm grateful for the
the run that we had, that thefamily time it brought us
together.
It definitely brought rage outof my son.

(03:33):
Uh I was like, bro, take a deepbreath.
He reminded me about me when Iwas in my 20s rooting for the
the Hawks and Mariners and such,but uh I'm grateful for that.
And I'm also grateful that Iactually had a meeting early
right before this, but it gotmoved, which allowed me to go
outside and help uh my my wiferebound for my daughter, which I
love.
I love rebounding.

(03:54):
And um uh she's a senior, so I'mjust grateful that we get that
time because when she's gonenext year, I'll be I might have
to convince my wife to work onher jump shot so I can go
rebound for her, which I don'tthink she's gonna do, but um
well, cool.
Well, bring me inside uh the thethe family huddle per se, and um
tell us how you and your wifemet.

SPEAKER_02 (04:17):
Um I was coaching at LSU in uh uh the last season,
1990.
Um we went uh we won a coupleSEC championships from 85 to 90,
and the last two years and 80,89 and 90, we went four and
seven.
And so uh they decided to uh letMike Archer and the staff go,

(04:41):
uh, like they do.
And so uh I was a professionalgolfer at that point in time
because what's the definition ofa professional golfer?
He gets to play golf and he getspaid while doing it.
Well, I was still under contractand I was playing golf every
day.
So I was a professional golfer.
But uh a buddy of mine was at aMexican restaurant and we were

(05:05):
um we were there after playingone day, and um, you know, this
woman walks by and I was like,whoa, who's that?
Because she had stopped and saidhello to him, and he told me the
story.
They went to high schooltogether, and so he let's go sit
at the table.
And I said, sure.
And so uh so that's how itkicked off.
Uh, she was there at a tablewith about six, seven other

(05:27):
friends of hers.
And uh there's a uh a fine storyin my book that uh she was she
was getting mad.
It it kind of she was one ofthose uh uh men were were creeps
at the time, you know.
Uh she had some some things thatuh probably some experiences

(05:48):
that didn't go go well.
And uh so I I kind of showed herthat chivalry was not dead.
So uh you'll have to read thebook to get the rest of the
story.
Love it.
And then talk about your boys.
Um oldest one is uh 29, uhTrent, and uh Parker is out in

(06:09):
California.
Uh Trent lives here in Tampa,and Parker's out in California,
and he is uh 27.
And um you want to have yourbirthday present.
You don't want your son to beborn on your own birthday
because it's no longer yourbirthday, and Parker's born on

(06:32):
January 5th, same as I was.
So uh we celebrate Parker'sbirthday now.

SPEAKER_01 (06:37):
Wow.
Well I wonder how often thatactually happens for families.
I don't know.
That's that it's it's a jeopardyquestion.

SPEAKER_02 (06:44):
Yeah, that is.
And the day before, it was 15minutes.
I was like born in 115, and uhan hour and 15 minutes earlier,
I would have been born on myparents' anniversary.

SPEAKER_01 (06:56):
So that was kind of kind of weird too.
And what keeps Trent and Parkerbusy these days?

SPEAKER_02 (07:03):
Uh Trent is uh working for an insurance
brokerage company out ofChicago, RT specialty group.
And uh and Parker is uh under umhe's working for Third Bridge,
which is a uh uh expert uh theythey get people uh experts, they

(07:26):
recruit uh experts to help hedgefunds and uh private equity
groups when they go intodifferent um arenas, they want
experts and so they link themtogether.
It's a really interestingcompany, global company out of
England.

SPEAKER_01 (07:46):
Wow.
Yeah, that intrigues me.
I'm gonna I'm gonna study thatone up.
I'm always in I'm alwaysintrigued just by when I run
across people who got into theprivate equity game and you
know, buying companies, and it'sdefinitely a different world,
and um sometimes you get in somelarge lot of zeros in some of
those transactions.

SPEAKER_03 (08:04):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (08:06):
Um, well, take me back to what was life like uh
growing up for you.
Uh Joe, I'd love to learn moreabout what was that like, what
was that like like for you, andtalk about the impact mom and
dad had on you.

SPEAKER_02 (08:17):
Well, Miami, uh I was born in 1962, and uh you
know the 60s, uh Miami was um itwasn't what it is now, let's put
it that way.
And it wasn't as uh as um it itwas a it was growing out of its

(08:37):
area of downtown and of this ofthe Miami Beach and the local
areas of of downtown Miami.
Um we grew up in Carroll City.
I have an older sister that'stwo years older than I am, and
then I had uh a sister that'sseven years younger than I am,

(08:58):
and um eight, excuse me.
And uh so we lived in CarrollCity.
It was a suburb.
Uh my dad was the oldest of ten.
Uh and my grandmother was youknow uh the wonderful German
woman that uh could cook and andplay the piano, and uh it was

(09:19):
just unbelievable.
My grandfather on uh my dad'sside passed away long before
they even got married.
And then my mother was born inNew York and moved down to uh
South Florida when she was about10 or 11 years old.
So basically, my uh mom and dadwere from Miami.

(09:40):
They were, you know, were raisedthere in Miami.
And uh so we lived in CarrollCity and life was great.
Uh typical suburb of uh of anymajor city.
Uh played football, playedbaseball, played basketball,
played any sport we could play.
Uh my older sister was avolleyball player in high school

(10:02):
and in college.
My younger sister did the same.
Uh and the neighbors, myfriends, they used to come and
knock on the door and ask for myolder sister to come play
football with them instead ofme.
So uh you could tell who wasprobably the better athlete, at
least at that point.
But uh it was good.
It was really uh uh raised in aCatholic family of uh uh at St.

(10:26):
Monica's.
It was an elementary schoolthere, and then went on to Pace
High School, which is a Catholicschool right there.
And it was a really good uhenvironment.
Uh I was able to play football,basketball, and baseball pretty
much all three, all four yearsof high school.
Had a couple injuries, but uh itum it gave a really uh by

(10:51):
location, it was a launchingpoint for the rest of my life uh
because Pace High School satright next to the Miami Dolphins
training camp at BiscayneCollege.
It is now called St.
Thomas University, but that'swhere my whole life kind of
opened up and the connections uhthat got me uh into football and

(11:15):
coaching football and uh in inanother ways, you know, it gave
me a uh a different side oflife.

SPEAKER_01 (11:22):
What um so dad so your your dad was oldest of 10,
did I hear that right?

SPEAKER_02 (11:29):
He was, he was.
He had a uh had a uh uh brotherthat was born before him, but he
died at birth.
And uh my grandmother, when shegot pregnant again, she had they
had heard that there was ahurricane.
Again, you're talking 1926, andyou they hear there's a
hurricane.
So she got skittish and shejumped on a train and went back

(11:52):
to Dubuque, Iowa to have my dad.
So my dad was really born inDubuque, but he was they went
right back six months later orfour months later.
But uh yeah, the he was a spicesalesman.
Uh he was he he went in the warand in in seven when he was 17
years, 16 turning 17.

(12:14):
Uh, not only did he lie, but hisdad or her his mother lied for
him.
And you know, he got out andwent, he was a a singer, he was
a professional singer, uh and hegot his degree in music.
Uh, but and he had a three-yearstint on Broadway.

(12:34):
And he used to always say, Iasked him, I said, Well, why
didn't you, you know, why didn'tyou make it?
He said, Well, because I wascooking more than I was singing.
And uh, so he was he was doingthe the travel shows, the stock,
stock shows, you know.
Uh, and uh so he got tired ofdoing that and he moved to

(12:55):
Miami.
Uh my mom was uh she was theathlete.
It's kind of funny, you know,you think of your mom being the
the uh a vocal or the artsy, andmy dad was the artsy, and my
mom, my mom was the athletic.
Uh she played basketball andfield hockey at Florida College
for Women.
It was Florida State back in theday.

(13:16):
Uh, and then in 1950, what wasit, 1948, I guess, 48, 49, they
opened up Florida State forguys, and then they opened up
Florida for women uh right afterthe war.
So uh very athletic family.
And the our number one, you Ican tell, you know, you're

(13:38):
you're Seattle.
We're the Miami Dolphins growingup.
True blue aqua, you know.
It was every every weekend.
Uh it was we had season tickets.
It was it was a great, great,great time of of of of course,
1970 was 72 was the perfectseason.

(13:59):
The first Super Bowl was in 70,won the 71, perfect season in
72.
And uh it was a great time.

SPEAKER_01 (14:07):
Wow.
Now, did you ever have you evertalked to your mom about like
because being an athlete, afemale athlete at that time,
this was pre-Title IX, so shemust have been a beast.

SPEAKER_02 (14:18):
Well, she uh she was a big um, I wouldn't say she was
big in the state of Florida.
She was a uh um an assistantprincipal at Highly Mimelate
American High School in NewOrleans, and she was president
of the teachers' guild.
She was very uh um, and she wasa she got her PhD when I think

(14:42):
she started in her late 50s toget it, mid mid to late 50s, and
her dissertation was on uhfemale sports, and she was a
big, big fighter for Title IX.
She was one of the first peoplethat really in the state of
Florida pushed it, uh met withlegislatures, did all of the

(15:07):
different things that you haveto do when you're starting, you
know, something like that.
And uh uh although she, youknow, she had two girls that
that that uh that went on tocollege, Clemson and Florida
State to play uh university, butshe always she always dreamed
that she would have a basketballgame, a women's basketball game,

(15:31):
that the uh gymnasium would besold out.
And she never really got, shesaw, you know, it it got a
little bit that way, but nowit's you know uh needless to
say, heck, I can turn on the TVand I'm watching girls'
volleyball and the gymnasiumsold out Penn State against
Wisconsin or Penn State against,you know.

(15:52):
So uh she'd be happy about that.
Are are mom and dad with usstill?
Nope, nope.
Dad uh uh dad died in uh trablah blah he died uh nine months
short of his 90th birthday.
So 2016, February, and my mom uhdied two years later in May.

SPEAKER_01 (16:18):
My dad just passed away just short of his 80th
birthday uh in 2021.
So unfortunately I know whatit's like to lose a parent, not
not fun, but hopefully,hopefully if they have access to
headphones up in heaven, theythey'll they'll listen to to
dad, uh and to Joe rave aboutthem.
So now do you have a musicalbackground?

SPEAKER_02 (16:39):
A little bit.
I sang in some uh in grammarschool.
I um they wanted me to try outfor the Miami Boys Choir, uh,
but I my voice changed verydrastically in like fourth or
fifth grade, and uh it it didn'thold up, let's put it that way.

(17:01):
I still love singing.
Uh did some stuff in in churchuh uh church theater uh back at
St.
James uh Elementary and eightSt.
James Church, should I say, inuh North Miami.
But other than that, no.
Uh it was uh football was it forme.

SPEAKER_01 (17:23):
Now who so who pushed well maybe you probably
pushed yourself in sports, butwas was mom more encouraging to
get into sports or dad moreencouraging you to get into
sports?

SPEAKER_02 (17:32):
My dad was always supportive.
My mom was push, you know.
Mom, mom, mom, you won't yougotta do something.
You gotta get out.
You can't, you know, sit andwatch TV.
Everybody, you know, it's uh andshe was.
She was very, she never missed agame.
I can remember her, you know, ifshe didn't get home early

(17:53):
enough, she'd, you know, takeput shorts on, she'd have a robe
on, she'd sit in the car, youknow, watching the game through
the fence.
She was she was the ultimateparent.
She didn't helicopter at all.
Uh, and neither did my dad, butthey tried to be there.
Uh, my dad was a travelingsalesman, so he wasn't able to

(18:14):
do as much.
But uh mom was there for all ofus from that standpoint.
And maybe sometimes she had adoubleheader.
Sometimes she was at the gymwith my sister and she caught me
with a baseball game at night.
You never she was always there.

SPEAKER_01 (18:30):
Wow.
What um before we get into momreal quick, I want to just think
about like if as you reflectback, as we're talking about
this, talk about the the values,maybe two or three values that
really were um not only taught,but maybe if there's a story on
how they held you accountable,um that that that we might like

(18:50):
to learn about.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (18:51):
It was um my dad had a saying that uh as he walked by
me, he would punch me in the legand that he would frog my leg.
And he says, you know, he'd grabunderneath my hamstring, he
says, that's a horse bite.
And then if he would pinch me,he says, that's a mouse bite.
But he would he'd punch me andhe said, Hey, that's for

(19:12):
nothing.
Wait till you do something.
So he had he instilled the fearof God in us.
Uh that was his way of uh hedidn't want his son to grow up
as he grew up.
Uh as I said, he at 16, hismother stood in the kitchen.
He was not going to school.
The nuns were chasing him to tryto keep him in school.

(19:34):
And she finally told him, Itsays, You're going in the war or
you're gonna stay in school.
Now you choose.
And he said, Okay, I'll go intowar.
And so it's 17, that's eighthgrade, 16 years old, turning 17.
That's eighth grade.
And but that's what was going onback then.
You know, if you were probably14, 15 and above, that's what

(19:58):
you did.
You know, you saw the bombs, yousaw all of that, and and the
American uh experiment was undersiege.
And so uh there was a lot thatdid that.
And uh, so he was, you know, hehe always he always wanted to
make sure that you knew and thatyou were on the edge if you were

(20:22):
getting there on the edge.
And uh, you know, and again, ofcourse, growing up in a staunch
Catholic church, uh Catholicfamily, uh, you know, the nuns
kind of helped that out too.
My second grade uh nun, she usedto have the old, remember the
the ball with the rubber bandwith the paddle?
Well, she would take the balloff and she would use the paddle

(20:44):
and uh wrap you on the knuckles,bend bend over, spank you,
whatever you whatever theyneeded to do, they did.
It was different, it was adifferent upbringing than
anybody nowadays.
They'd probably throw the nunsin jail.

SPEAKER_01 (21:00):
Oh, right.
So hard work.
Um I'm hearing was uh wasprobably a core of you know a
lesson.
Like I think something you gottaught.
Tell me what else were big, biglessons for you.

SPEAKER_02 (21:10):
Persistence.
Persistence.
We couldn't quit.
See it out.
There's nothing if you try it,even you see it out.
Uh there was many times that Iwanted to uh like winter league
baseball of going back tofootball, and uh I only did it
once.
And I I I made a poor decisionin trying to do winter baseball,

(21:33):
and I missed playing footballand they needed a quarterback.
And so uh I I I quit thebaseball team and then went over
there.
But uh it was always about that,you know, finish what you what
you start.
And he instilled my dad and andmy mom instilled that uh in our
school work, in our everyeverywhere around, finish finish

(21:54):
the finish the task.

SPEAKER_01 (21:57):
Um did you get a chance to meet your your spend
time with your grandparents muchwhen you're growing up?

SPEAKER_02 (22:02):
Uh my mom's side, my my grandfather was alive.
I only remember him sitting inhis lap.
He smelt like a cigar.
He uh he smoked cigars the wholetime.
Uh but my grandmother died whenI was in like seventh grade,
sixth grade, and my grandmotherdied uh with my godfather at his
two-person funeral in 1990.

(22:23):
Uh she died at uh at 100 yearsold.
She was born in night in uh1900, and she uh she died at 90,
excuse me, uh in 1990.
So uh yeah, it was uh we had ait it was good.
I mean, it really was.
My like I said, my dad 10 kids.

(22:45):
We had 24 cousins on that oneside of 10 kids, and uh my mom
had a brother and they had fivekids.
Uh so we had a lot of lot offamily around.

SPEAKER_01 (22:59):
Lots of it.
That's something you don't seeas much like big, big, big
families, it seems like.
It's like people used to stopget to get man defense, and but
I don't even know what kind oftrapping defense you'd have to
go at 10.

SPEAKER_02 (23:12):
Let's put this way, it was it was 10 and it was
really 11 in 13 years, if youhad if you think of Patrick,
because he he died at birth, butmy dad, and then uh there's a uh
boy and girl twin in the middle.
Uh there was two attorneys, uhuh financial advisor, a uh

(23:35):
general commander in the AirForce.
He uh was the commander of theRTC at Georgia Tech, and uh he
died of cancer in '89.
And uh, but uh uh really uh ateacher and a um uh a guy that
worked service for the um ohgosh, uh what's that uh youth

(24:01):
group that uh he he he was hewas in different types of
ministries over his life, Davidwas.

SPEAKER_01 (24:07):
Okay.
So dad was former singer turnedspice salesman, and then mom,
um, she was in an education.

SPEAKER_02 (24:16):
Education, Dade County School System, yep.

SPEAKER_01 (24:19):
And then talk about her job she had.

SPEAKER_02 (24:21):
She uh started uh at Hyalea elementary school, I
guess.
She worked all the way upthrough, and then she was at
Hylea Junior Col uh junior high,and then they opened up Miami
Lakes, uh Hyalea Miami Lakes uhin 1970, and she went over there
and opened up the school.
And that was another person thatuh or another decision that that

(24:47):
basically laid the pavement forthe rest of my life.
Uh as the school opened up, uhthere's this guy called Don
Shula that moved down fromBaltimore, and there uh uh
Dorothy Shula walked into theschool and met my mom.
And from that that on, they werefriends.

(25:10):
They used to play cardstogether, they struck up a
friendship until she died.
And I don't I forgot when shepassed away, but early in in
life, uh she had cancer.
And uh, but uh part of the partof the cards and and the social
networking in and around umDorothy Schula was Bill

(25:35):
Arnsbarger's wife, Betty Jane,was Beverly Schnellenberger,
Howard Schnellenberger's wife.
And so all their kids went tothe Catholic high school too.
And so we all not only was thehigh school close to the
training camp and where thedolphins practiced, but you
know, our the social networkingworked through too.

(25:57):
And uh, you know, my tight endin high school was Howard
Schnellerberger's uh middle son,and he was uh, you know, he he
injected the whole offense mysenior year.
We went from a uh wishbone in myjunior year to uh throwing being
all state my senior year, and uhit it helped his son get a

(26:20):
scholarship at Duke.
That's where he went.
Then Howard got the Miami job,and then he transferred down to
Miami for his last two years.
Howard uh Stewart did.
So that was it.
It was it was really uh uh it'sjust one of those things, you
know, you meet one person, youknow, and it's like God prunes
the tree, you know, cuts you offof all of these other people,

(26:42):
but the blossoming that it is bycutting off that one, and you
just march down that road, mywhole life was was changed at
that one moment in you know, 69or 70 when Dorothy Shula walked
into my my mom's office.

SPEAKER_01 (27:00):
And for those that aren't following the so Don
Schuler, everybody was obviouslyone of the most famous coaches
for Miami Dolphins.
Um so when you when you were inhigh school, Shulas move in, you
meet meet the kids, you meet theSchellenbergers, but were you
like were you guys just typicalnaive kids playing sports?
And like, yeah, that's what mydad does and didn't didn't care
what you know.

SPEAKER_02 (27:21):
Nah, not at all.
I mean, yeah, again, we just wewent about our business.
Um Howard was wasSchnellenberger was very much
like my father.
He uh he sized you up and he hadan unbelievable harsh voice, and
he always had a pipe, you know,he was a pipe smoker, and uh,
but uh you know, he sized you upas you came in.

(27:44):
Uh are you here because you'refriends, or are you here because
I'm you know the offensivecoordinator of the Miami
Dolphins type?
You know, I always felt thatwith him.
He's always, you know, but uhbut Miss Schnellberg, Beverly
was was super nice, and youknow, they were they had just
moved down there, you know, theywere living the football life,
you know, and I had theopportunity to do that 13 years.

(28:06):
We'll get into that.
But you know, it it I didn'tknow what it was like back then,
but I had an understanding ofwhat it would be like, and I I I
yearned for that uh because Iyou know I was looking for my
heroes, and the heroes were overthe over the fence.
I could see them every daypracticing when we were
practicing.

(28:27):
And uh, and then there's therewere some opportunities later on
for me to uh to be working outand and and and on the field
with some of those heroes that Igrew up with.

SPEAKER_01 (28:43):
So before we get into that, so you you you have a
great senior year, and nowyou're trying to figure out
where am I gonna go play sports?

SPEAKER_02 (28:50):
I was like my dad.
I was six, I was uh January 5th,like I said, I I uh was born in
1962 in January.
So I was a uh a middle baby, andmy mom threw me in kindergarten
at four years old and just saidto the nuns, hey, you know, you
gotta keep them because I'veI've got to go, I've got to go

(29:10):
to school, I'll be back.
And so uh I was I didn't turn17, I was 16 years old in my
senior year.
And as I look back, I wouldn'trecruit me either if I don't,
even if I was all state, uh,because I wasn't mature enough.
And so Duke, the coaches at Dukeand uh Howard, who was a head

(29:35):
coach at Miami at the time, theyconvinced me into going to a
prep school instead of a juniorcollege because then you
wouldn't uh use up two years ofyour eligibility.
Back then, the junior college,you know, if you go junior
college or out, that's two yearsof college, and then you only
had two left.
So I went to Forkingham MilitaryAcademy, and I get more

(29:58):
discipline and I Get moremilitary, and I just uh it was a
really, really a great eightmonths that I spent at a
military school.
I wasn't there like some of theother kids were there, but uh
they were need some discipline.
But Fork Union was a great,great um place to be in 1979 and

(30:21):
1980.
Uh we had uh uh Ralph Sampsonwas on campus every once in a
while.
Uh his cousin Vincent Washingtonwas playing football.
All of the basketball and andfootball players that were on
the campus, they were theretrying to get better for the

(30:42):
SAT.
They couldn't change their GPAbecause they graduated.
So it wasn't legal for you to,you know, get alter your GPA.
But most of them that were therewere trying to get better at
their SAT because they had, youknow, they didn't have all of
the rule, the lenient rules backthen.
Uh you if you were Prop 48, youknow, uh you were prop.

(31:05):
And so uh, but you could try toget your SAT or your um uh what
was the other one?

SPEAKER_01 (31:13):
Um ACT.

SPEAKER_02 (31:15):
ACT.
Uh you could do better withthat.
So uh so I was there to getmature and they were there to
get smarter.
Um but uh but I had again somany people that I met through
there, I was able to play six,no, not six, five different
sports.
Uh I played football, I playedbaseball, I ran indoor track, I

(31:37):
ran outdoor track, and it and Idove because every time you were
on on a team, you got offcampus.
You clamored for the away gamesbecause you wanted to get and
see the normal normal life.
So it was uh it was really agood time.
I look back and um it wastorture going through it, uh,

(31:59):
had some personal uh thingshappen uh with my best friend
John Stack.
Uh he died of leukemia onDecember 8th of 79.
And he was my best friend uh inhigh school.
And uh so uh so that kind of itwas good that I was there at
that point because it made me goback to school, it made the

(32:20):
discipline, and God knows if Iwasn't there what what I would
have done or where I would be ifI wasn't there during that time.

SPEAKER_00 (32:29):
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(32:51):
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(33:12):
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learn more about how he can helpyour organization.
Now, let's get back to today'sepisode.

SPEAKER_01 (33:28):
Did you would you say you learned more about
discipline from your your thatprep school experience or more
through growing up for your momand dad?

SPEAKER_02 (33:35):
I think it's a mixture of both.
And and you know what?
It it never stopped.
God disciplines me, has beendisciplining me for many, many
years now.
And uh, you know, we're we'reall sinners and we're all uh
failing at this thing calledcalled life and faith.
But we know that he's there andwe know that he's he's given us

(33:57):
his son for forgiveness, buthe's display, he's he's he's
just got me in the in the fire.
He's just he's sharpening meevery day.

SPEAKER_01 (34:06):
Yeah.
Well, that's I always tellpeople the one thing we have in
common is we're all flawed.
Um no question.
You know, I've yet to meet thatperfect person, and usually when
the perfect person comes around,it's that means our massive egos
right in the way, they justdon't see it.

SPEAKER_02 (34:19):
Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 (34:21):
Exactly.
Okay, so then from prep school,we go.
This is where you go make it, weget on full with Florida State.

SPEAKER_02 (34:28):
Yep.
Uh I was waiting for thescholarship, but it never came.
But uh Bill Dawkins was my uhwas the head coach at the school
of where my mom was uh theassistant principal at Norland
High School in North Miami,North Miami Beach, really, and
it's a little microcosm of a ofa community uh in the Norland

(34:49):
area.
And uh he was the first littleall-American at Florida State,
and he got me an opportunity touh my sister was playing
volleyball, and so my dad droveuh me and my sister back up to
Florida State to drop her off.
And I got an interview withCoach Bowden, and they had just

(35:09):
gotten uh off the 1980 season.
They played Oklahoma in theOrange Bowl.
They lost, I think it was like20 to 3 or 21 to 3.
Uh and you know, they had awhole defense coming back that
next year, but uh in thedefensive backfield, they had
like four to five quarterback,high school, high school

(35:30):
quarterbacks now playing uhdefensive back, and they were
taking these quarterbacks andmaking them into defensive
backs, and they had a lot ofsuccess.
The defensive coordinator and DBcoach was a guy named Jack
Stanton, and Monk Bonasort wasthe guy that walked on.
He was from Pittsburgh, he wasan all-American uh that year,

(35:53):
and then my freshman year, he hewas still there.
That was his senior year.
So I walked on, and you know, Ihad to earn earn my keep.
And it was torture, it wasbrutal, uh, but you know, again,
the the the sharpening and theand the and the steel was was

(36:15):
hot for four and a half years.

SPEAKER_01 (36:18):
And did you when did you finally uh achieve your
scholarship?

SPEAKER_02 (36:22):
Uh after my sophomore year, uh, or excuse
me, after yeah, my sophomoreyear, um I had played a little
bit um and I had red-shirted, soI was already through three
three seasons, but traveled thatwhole season.
But they told me that I had tocome back to spring practice and

(36:43):
prove that I was supposed to bethere.
And so I was a backup going intomy seat my uh junior year, and
uh, and lo and behold, they gaveme a scholarship, and uh I
started the first game againstEast Terra East Carolina in my
junior year, uh, and it was kindof uh uh another sharpening uh

(37:07):
ball over my head.
Uh I had Ernest Biner on thethree-yard line, and he walked
in.
And it was just me and him, andI fell flat on my face.
So the coach told me to sit mybutt on the bench, and if I
moved from the bench, I'll neverplay here again.
Well, he had he got fired thenext that that year.

(37:28):
Uh, and Mickey Andrews came inon my senior year, and um thank
God, because uh I don't knowwhere, you know, I probably they
wouldn't have let me come backmy senior year, but Mickey let
me back, and I was the 15-freesafety after spring practice.
Yes, five, not four, not six,but five.

(37:50):
My number was five.

SPEAKER_01 (37:51):
There we go.

SPEAKER_02 (37:52):
And we come back and we start training training.
One guy flunked out, another guycame in out of shape, another
guy got hurt, and here I was.
Um, you know, the 15 freesafety.
Now I'm the backup, and westarted blocking punts, and I
was the main person to do it.

(38:13):
And we blocked nine that year.
Uh it as you said, we I blockedtwo in a game against Arizona,
and I blocked it and picked itup for 36 yards and ran it in.
Uh, we've Van Raphorst scored 50on us, and we've scored 55 on
him.
So it was uh it was a shootoutout in Arizona.

SPEAKER_01 (38:33):
Wow.

SPEAKER_02 (38:34):
But yeah, it was it's it's kind of sums up a
little bit of my life.
Uh it just is, you know, uh it Ijust uh picked up pieces, you
know.
I found a way to do things, Ifound a way to get on the field,
I found a way to, you know, helpthe team out.
Uh found a way in my life, founda way uh with my kids, found a

(38:59):
way in business, in my coachingcareer.
Um it's just, you know, thepersistence, and I think that
gets back to what you asked meearlier, you know, with my dad
and my mom.
Uh it he finished the task.
And so, you know, uh I'm stillfighting every day and uh uh
looking forward to retirementhere in the next couple years

(39:21):
and see what's next.

SPEAKER_01 (39:23):
I I want to go back as we kind of tease it.
So you when you in college, yougo back and work out and you and
you had an opportunity to workout some of your your idols you
mentioned.
Talk about that real quick.

SPEAKER_02 (39:31):
I did.
Uh that was the mostunbelievable because in my
junior year, um like I said,Howard Schnellberger's son was
my tight end.
And so we became, you know,peanut butter and jelly, and we
used that that we used to sayit.
And uh so we worked at thedolphin training camp in the
summer.
Uh we were cleaning uh dormrooms, we were waxing floors, we

(39:54):
were doing all kinds ofdifferent stuff.
It was all maintenance stuff forthe university, but we would
work until three o'clock, andthen we were able to work out
and work out in the weight room,and and then that's where all of
the friendships reallyblossomed.
Because uh Jerry Sandusky, JohnSandusky's son, and that's Jerry

(40:16):
with a G, not a J.
We'll get to that in a minute,too.
But uh David Shula, Mike Shula,uh, you know, all of the all of
the kids from the parents of thecoaches, they were playing
football or basketball orwhatever, and they would be
working out.
And so that's where we kind ofall huddled up, and that's where

(40:37):
our friendships andrelationships, you know, began
to uh to to blossom from that uhthat opportunity.
And then when I went to schoolat Florida State, they opened up
uh, you know, I could come backand work out there in the
offseason.
And I had the great opportunityto go cover Mark Duper, Mark

(41:01):
Clayton, uh Joe Rose, catchballs from Dan Marino and David
Woodley.
Uh Tim Foley is really one ofthe first people to really show
me what a defensive back does asfar as footwork, as far as
backpedaling.
Uh I loved his, he was one ofthe unbelievable leaders.

(41:24):
Uh, you know, he was a very bigleader in uh fellowship of
Christian athletes, and he wasone of the top three people in
Amway, uh, the pyramid company.
But Tim always, always said, hesaid, you know what?
My job, my job is to get 10people to tackle and to get the

(41:46):
guy down.
That means I don't have to doit.
And so he was the quarterback.
He was a hidden gem in thatdefense uh of 72 and 71, 70, all
through that area era and evenin the late 70s.
And uh it was just a fun time.

(42:08):
And so uh, you know, I uh I wasaround all of my heroes growing
up.
And it was as I look back, andwhat more could you ask for in a
in a child's life?

SPEAKER_01 (42:19):
Wow.
So as when you talked to yourkids about this when they were
growing up, did they were theylike, what?
No way, dad.
How'd you do that?
Did they were like maybe notbelieve you at first?

SPEAKER_02 (42:28):
Yeah, I you know, it would come up once in a while,
you know, but they had to getold enough to understand who
these people were.
You know, I say, and I'm gladyou made the comment, you know,
some of these people that arelistening here, they don't know
who Don Schuel is unless theywere uh comparing his record

(42:50):
against Andy Reed's record or oruh Belichick's record.
Uh, you know, uh Don Schuel isthe only one to have an
undefeated season.
It it was just a it was amagical, magical four or five
years, you know, going through.
Now, there was trouble and therewas, you know, some some hard

(43:11):
times going through that.
But uh it was really, really agreat opportunity, and we took
advantage of the opportunities.

SPEAKER_01 (43:20):
So cool.
So in college now, we we have ai I want to kind of try to make
this transition because you youyou you end up coaching when
you're done.
But before we get that, like youyou had a roommate that people
might name might may resonatewith a few folks who knew who
golf before.

SPEAKER_02 (43:36):
Yeah, well, yeah, it's all about relationships,
right?
I know a guy that wrote a bookabout that.
And uh if I come back my junioryear and uh my uh my roommate uh
dropped out of school and theypaired me up with Steve
Nicholas, and Steve was a widereceiver for us, and of course,

(43:57):
his dad is Jack Nicholas.
He was the uh third child, uhsecond son, and uh we got paired
up together.
Uh, and we had a great time.
I mean, he was you know goodroommate, and he uh, you know,
he's he was talk trash.
I talked trash a little bit, anduh he uh he was he was the wide

(44:19):
receiver and I was a DB, so itwas uh it was fun.
And uh I'll I'll you want me togo into the uh briefly the story
that that led to this book thatI I wrote, and uh I had had a
club that uh was given to me togo uh go play golf one day.

(44:42):
I broke my putter and I said,crap, I don't have a putter.
And so he threw me this putter.
He said, Here, use this one.
I don't use it anymore.
It it kind of it wasn't thetechnology.
And so uh I had it and I didn'tlike it very much, but it, you
know, I used it a few times andI put it on the shelf, you know,

(45:03):
with like all golfers, you know,they have a garage, and if
you're an avid golfer, you havea lot more uh golf clubs than
you than you need.
And fast forward to 2003, uhSteve's 40th birthday, uh my dad
was up helping me.
Uh he was just up visiting andhe was helping me in the garage,
and he made the comment.

(45:24):
He says, You ought to take thisdown to Steve's party, because
Steve was turning 40 and theywere having a uh a birthday
party for him.
So I did.
And uh I stood there in themiddle of the party and I said,
Jack, I said, I think I may havea uh a club of yours.
He says, Well, go get it andwe'll talk about it.
So my wife went out and she hadto get her purse anyway.
So she brought it back in and Igive it to him, and he starts

(45:47):
looking at it, and he looks atme, he says, Where've you did
where's this been?
And I said, You know, I've beencoaching for the last 13 years.
It was up on her on the shelf,and I just found it.
My my dad said, Hey, I made thatthere's a story behind this.
He just shook his head, and sohe just closes his eyes.

(46:08):
He's going back in time.
And so finally he uh he turnedto me, he says, You know how
much this is worth?
I said, Nah, but by the tone ofyour voice, a couple hundred
grand.
He said, Times five.
I won the U.S.
Open at Baltistral in 1967.
So everybody's coming by now,and all of his friends, Jim
Montgomery walks by, he says,Hey, that's White Fang, where'd

(46:30):
you get that?
Barber walks by, hey, I used tospray paint that in the parking
lots.
That's White Fang, where'd youget that?
So the whole night was all aboutJack getting his putter back.
And there's some, I won't stealthe whole story, but there were
some markings and differentthings about the putter that
confirmed that it was hisputter.

(46:51):
And so he's standing there, anduh uh I just thanked the dear
Lord that he he he wassprinkling what I was going to
say next.
Uh and Jack said, turned to meand said, Uh, hey, you know,
send me your specs and I'll I'llsend you a set of clubs.
And I said, You ain't gettingoff that easy.
And he looked at me with thispensive look, and I said, You

(47:14):
get my dad, I'll get you getSteve, and let's go up to
Augusta and we'll call it even.
So he turned to Steve and hesays, Book it.
And so October 22nd, 2003, wewent up and uh we met him in the
in Atlanta, and we went andstayed in the cottage, played
the part three.
He was so gracious to my dad.

(47:34):
He was just absolutelywonderful.
But the gist of the whole storyis uh uh of the book is a
father-son journey through lifethat it culminates at Augusta.
Uh, there's some spiritualthings that transpire.
Uh, there's some unbelievablethings that transpire uh uh that
you you know it's notcoincidence.

(47:55):
Uh uh it's it's it's uh it itit's the man upstairs putting
these people in into my life.
And so uh it's been fun.
It's been a really good uh uhit's been a good book for for a
lot of different people.
And uh I get uh females to uhthat absolutely love it because

(48:18):
you know that's what they wantfor their dad, for their husband
and their son to have thatspecial bond.
And and one of the biggestthings that I tell people that I
learned from writing, you know,everybody, you know, okay, you
write a book, so what?
Uh what did you learn by writingthe book?
And one of the biggest thingsthat I learned, and it it it's

(48:39):
and I try to tell people this, Ididn't know my dad's story.
And when and the story is aboutmy dad and me.
And uh here I was in the MiamiDolphins trying to find my
heroes and trying to look for myheroes and thinking who my
heroes were.
But when it's all said and donein my real life, I was living

(49:03):
with my hero.
The guy was a hero.
Not many people have enoughgumption, fear, non-fear, and
right out guts and balls to gointo World War II when you're
16, just turning 17 years old.

SPEAKER_01 (49:22):
Right.

SPEAKER_02 (49:23):
And so uh it showed me that I was living with my
hero, but I just it took me afew years to realize it.

SPEAKER_01 (49:31):
So when you called your your pops and said, Hey,
what are you doing?
You want to go to Augusta?
Did he like ha ha good one?

SPEAKER_02 (49:38):
But yeah, that's uh that's exactly.
I said, Hey, we're we're gonnago play uh we're gonna go play
some golf up uh up up inGeorgia.
Where where are we going?
What are you doing for that?
And he kind of put two and twotogether, you know, and then I
told him the story, obviously,because he was just there that
week.

(49:59):
And I told him the story, and ofcourse, you know, I told him
what what it was.
So I I told and during that,it's back to your baseball.
It was uh it was the first weekin it was October 22nd, it was
the last week of it was thefinal game of the New York
Yankees and the Miami Marlinsbecause when we flew back, we

(50:20):
kind of flew over um uh the uhbaseball park there uh and in in
Miami.
And so it was uh it was prettyinteresting.

SPEAKER_01 (50:32):
So wow.
So I when you um I I I want tosave some of the uh the the
thunder of this book, everybody.
Please go get it.
It's um I read the bookliterally in two and a half
days.
I could not put it down.
It's um such a good story on thefather-son relationship.
Uh, if I mean for I mean,there's a lot of sports fans
listening to this podcast.
It's an amazing story of golf,that the journey that Gus said

(50:53):
was father and son, the thejourney of um you know, Joe as a
as a coach in the collegiatelevel and then to getting the
NFL and and and making thedecision to, hey, what what
where do I want to how do I wantto transition my life?
And so you'll you'll learn aboutthat.
Um did at what at what stage didyou say, I gotta write a book

(51:14):
about this?

SPEAKER_02 (51:15):
I had a friend of mine that lived across the
street, and uh unfortunately hegot glioblastomin.
He's been uh passed away aboutuh four years ago, five years
ago.
And uh he he was constant.
I mean, it it was like once aweek, Joe, you gotta write a
book.
Joe, you gotta write a book.

(51:35):
You know, he was he loved golf.
Uh he didn't play a lot, but hefollowed it, and uh he was just
Ralph Barber is his name.
And uh and so it it happens, andthen once the story was out,
every time you know you go playgolf and you're sitting up at uh

(51:55):
up in the 19th hole, andsomebody, you know, says, Hey,
tell that story.
Hey, Joe, tell that story.
So I told it, and then one timeDoug Shields, this guy named
Bill Chastain, walked by, and hewas the beat writer for the uh
the Tampa Bay race here.
And um they were talking becauseit was baseball, and Doug was an

(52:20):
all-American at at theUniversity of Miami and uh
played a little bit in in theminor leagues, and so he did it.
He said, Bill, hey, you need tohear this story.
So I told him the story, and Itold him that, you know, this
neighbor's trying to get me towrite a book.
Well, that night I go home andhe called me the next day, and

(52:45):
Bill Chastain did.
He says, You got me.
I said, What do you mean you gotme?
He said, I've read about I'veread about you, I know about
Steve, I mean, I know about JackNicholas, I read about Steve,
but no one has read anythingabout your dad being able to

(53:06):
play Augusta National with theguy that won it six times.
And that's what kind of, youknow, uh, and then we found a
recording uh of my dad talkingabout his war uh um endeavors,
and that's when the the bookkind of just kind of the the

(53:27):
motor was going, you know, thethe locomotive was out on the
tracks and and we were off andrunning.
And uh and Bill was was myco-writer and he kind of guided
me through it.
So it I I have a lot to um I Ihave a lot to uh to honor him uh
as far as helping me throughthis.

(53:48):
I don't think I could have everdone it.
He did such a great job of ofpulling like you're doing now of
okay, all right, you were 15.
What'd your dad say?
Yeah, what'd your mom say?
He made me go back there.
You know, John Stack, when hedied of leukemia, he was just
all right, what did you feel?
What you know, I and it was anemotional ride because you know,

(54:10):
you go through that stuff again,and some of that has been buried
for years, and you know, it's itit it it all comes out, and uh,
but uh that's how that's how itcame about.
And he also had a had a uh uh anagent, you know, book agent, and

(54:31):
then uh we finally got apublisher and it and it and it
worked out.
And by the way, why the reasonwhy you're able to read it so
quick is because I wrote it.
I wanted to make sure thatex-athletes could read it
quickly.

SPEAKER_01 (54:45):
I found the Scratch and Sniff page, so thank you for
making it really easy for me todo it.

SPEAKER_02 (54:49):
We put we put pictures, we put pictures in
there for the gay, for theFlorida graduates and the
Washington graduates.

SPEAKER_01 (54:56):
Hey, it worked.
It worked.
There's also a story uh aboutthe first.
I'm not we don't need to tellbecause I want to tease people
to go get the book.
It's where you actually tried togo to Gus the first time and the
cards it wasn't ready.
You weren't ready to go yet.
The guy upstairs said, Not notquite yet, my man.
We got you wait a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 (55:12):
Yep, yep.
It was uh and and that'sprobably why the seeds
transpired.
I had uh I had wrote uh Jack aletter uh probably five or six
years prior to the prior two.
And um I you know, I begged him.
I was like, you know, my dad'sgolf fan, avid golfer and golf

(55:34):
fan would love the opportunity.
And I got the letter back and hesays, now I can't do that, you
know, this, that, and the other.
So uh the C's were laid in myown brain, I guess, five or six
years.
But you applied.
Thank God they got spewed out onuh on March, what's his

(55:56):
birthday?
I think uh drawing a blank now.
It's in March, March 30th, Ithink.

SPEAKER_01 (56:00):
Um but you applied the lesson Mama Dad taught you
of persistence.
You didn't quit.
No, not quit, didn't do it.

SPEAKER_02 (56:08):
Subliminally, I did not quit.

SPEAKER_01 (56:11):
You're exactly right.
You're exactly as you think backto all this journey you've been
on, and then you apply it tolike raising your own boys.
Um what what were like the corethemes that were like things you
really wanted to instill in inyour in your boys after going
through all this amazing journeyso far in your life?

SPEAKER_02 (56:29):
Oh my word.
Uh you know, there it it it it'sone of the things you you don't
want to impose on your kids, youknow, your life.
They got to live their own life.
And again, I didn't know that.
I I can see that now.
I mean, I can understand.
Uh uh, we lost a child at NotreDame at birth.

(56:51):
Um and you know, we were just solucky.
Uh, we were older um in ourmarriage when we had kids.
Uh, and so we didn't even thinkwe'd have uh the next two.
Um and so we were very, very umcautious.

(57:12):
Uh and and I I wanted to givethem and I wanted to be there
for them.
One of the things my dad uh heloved me, I knew it in the
bottom of my heart.
He never really showed it.
He was a man of of stoicism anduh hard discipline.
And uh, but I always promisedmyself that if I discipline or

(57:35):
if I I'm gonna walk up and I'mgonna say that I love you before
they went to bed.
And that was one of the thingsthat I knew my dad did, and but
he never really shed those wordsuntil later in life when we were
both adults.
And so that was maybe one of thebiggest things that I wanted to

(57:56):
make sure that, you know, uh ifI was to die early or or
tomorrow, uh, I wanted I wantedthose two kids to know that, you
know, that they're the they'rethey're the the the air that I
breathe, you know, as as aparent.
So uh it uh it I I just wantedthem to good be good people, you

(58:18):
know, and get get around goodpeople.
We tried to discipline them, uh,gave them enough leeway.
Uh, but you know, uh if if theycould follow in their in their
faith, they went to uh uh St.
Mary's uh Episcopal Day Schoolhere in Tampa, and then they
both went to Jesuit High School,which is a Catholic high school
here.

(58:39):
So they had the foundations forit, but you know, like
everything, you have to go do ityourself, you know, at some
point in time.
You've you've got to go uh carrythe torch.
Yeah.
And uh, but I think that uh alot of their mother is in both
of them.
Um the uh opening and thewillingness to uh uh to to to

(59:00):
look at the uh the the poor andthe and the unbridled, the the
the people that don't have whatwe have.
Uh we live here in South Tampa,it's a very upscale south uh
portion of Tampa.
Uh and it's not your everydayneighborhood.
Uh it's uh so they they theyhave a a little bit of roots in

(59:25):
them and and they have a goodbase, and uh I hope that you
know helps them in the rest oftheir life.
Love it.

SPEAKER_01 (59:34):
If you um if you reflect, well, well, actually,
before I before I ask thisquestion, we've I've done many
episodes now, season six, we'vegot 300 and something episodes.
We've a lot of times youthsports has got brought up.
And even what the power of Ilove you, the power of saying
I'm sorry for dads.
Um, see you you've you've seen alot.
You've seen it from a coach atthe college level, the NFL

(59:55):
level, from raising your ownkids, coach level, maybe in a in
In a few words, a few fewminutes, t talk about what what
advice would you give the theyou know the 30-year-old parent
that's raising kids into sportsum so they could you know let
them live their life but also inenjoy it?
Tell me tell me what comes tomind.

SPEAKER_02 (01:00:17):
People ask me this a lot, and this the second
question is how how do you howwould you treat your kids uh in
nowadays?
Uh would you let them playfootball, would you let them
play baseball, if hockey,whatever?
I tell all of my parents, Isaid, do not let them pick a

(01:00:39):
sport at 10 years old and be theonly sport that they ever play.
It just is it it inhibits theperson physically, I think, and
especially some of the otherthat are sedentary type uh
sports, uh baseball, you know,soccer, you can stand, you know,

(01:01:02):
but soccer's a great sport withthe drills and everything.
Do as much as you can, be a kid,go do Boy Scouts, go do do uh
the homeless shelter, football,baseball, do all that you can
do.
Don't do one because there's somany people that I have seen,

(01:01:25):
including my own son, my youngerson, that got burnt out with
baseball, had a chance to walkon at Florida State, and he was
just spent.
He was he was tired of it.
And so that's what I try toimpose.
Now, once they get to a level,if they get to that elite level

(01:01:47):
at their age group, then youcould, but I'd still, if you
have a golfer, make him go playbasketball, let him go play,
because it's only gonna make hima better athlete.
And if you're a swimmer, then gogo play tennis because you know
you're gonna want to compete inyou can compete in tennis.

(01:02:09):
You're uh you can compete inpickleball, you can compete in
golf.
Uh do as much as you can becauseyou never know when it's gonna
get taken away from you.

SPEAKER_01 (01:02:19):
It eventually will.
Does all of us.
I don't I can't remember if I ifwe met Joe and I told the story
about um my my daughter, did Itell you she's gonna go play
basketball in college?
Yes.
Okay, yeah.
So she's going where I playedfootball, which is like a Disney
moment.
And so uh she was she was asoccer kid growing up a little
bit that didn't like way tooaggressive.

(01:02:39):
She get you know, pretty muchgetting yellow cards at like
eight years old when it getsover.
And and she just always lovedhoop and she's played hoop her,
she loves it, just eat loves it.
And um, but the first time sheplayed golf was she saw her
brother play at like you know12, 10 years old, whatever, and
shoots 51 from the red tees,takes second, qualifies for

(01:03:00):
district.
She's like, Dad, I'm done.
I'm like, What?
No, you aren't.
Too easy.
Well, I just didn't and I wantedto push her so bad, but I didn't
want to, and I'm hopingeventually she realizes it's
again we can do it together as afamily, it's get you outside,
but she'll even like one of hergood friends plays on the high
school golf team, and they wentto the top golf maybe a year
ago, and Riley grabs you know,driver and just flies at like

(01:03:24):
140, 150 for like, and she'sonly 5'4, just um, but she
doesn't have the passion like meor my son do for golf.
And so it's you know, I have tolike just really watch myself,
like it's her journey.
I hope that she comes around andand and like wants to play
because it's I said, honey, whenyou get if you get into
business, if you're a femalegolfer and a stick, you're gonna
be the dream, you'll be in thebest fortune possible.

SPEAKER_02 (01:03:47):
My dad used to make the comment back then.
Uh, obviously, you I'm talkingabout the uh 70s now, 70s and
early 80s, he always thoughtthat an athletic female, if they
played other sports and then goplayed golf, they would kill it,
you know, back then.
Because when you looked at, youknow, babe's dehere I'm

(01:04:10):
mispronouncing babe Zaharias,um, you know, um uh Judy Rankin,
uh all of those, they weren'treally athletic, they were
learned golf, they learned howto hit the golf ball.
And you know, he always thoughtthat they'd have an upper hand,
and he tried to get my oldersister, but you know, they they

(01:04:32):
got caught up in the volleyballand uh they won the state
championship for junior year.
And uh so uh it it and itfollowed in the same footsteps
of my my younger sister.
But uh, but that's that's I Iit's it it's just well rounded,
you know.
You don't it's it's uh my dadalways used to say that too, the

(01:04:52):
single single-minded person, youknow, it's single focus.
Um, you know, uh it's it itthere's there's a good good for
that because you're focused andyou're on the flight and you're
playing, but guess what?
There's a socialization thatgets missed sometimes, and you

(01:05:13):
have to be able to turn it off.
It can't be just that.

SPEAKER_03 (01:05:18):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (01:05:19):
Uh you know, it's it's not one thing in your
faith, it's not one thing inyour sports, it's not one thing
in your academics or your workor your relationships.
It's encompassing.
We've we've got to keep keep it.
Uh it's a it's a melting pot,it's not steak and potatoes.

SPEAKER_01 (01:05:37):
Wise advice, everybody.
Hope you're taking notes like Iam, page full of notes here.
Um, before we can, uh I want tomake sure that we make it really
easy for people to find thebook, but before I go there, one
question I always love askingdads.
And since you're you you gotsome wisdom to you've been
delivering this to us all dayhere, what would be an area your
dad game that as you reflectback, you're like, man, I wish I

(01:05:58):
could go back and do this alittle differently that that
might help a younger dad ormaybe a dad that's later that
um, you know, because I think weas we joked earlier, we're all
flawed.
Um, you know, as a competitiveperson, I this podcast has
helped me become more patientwithout a doubt.
Um, so that's something I haveto always be careful of, is just
lose, you know, making sure I'mhey, is this that big a deal?
What do you you know, do youneed to freak out about this?

(01:06:20):
And usually the answer is no.
Um, but for you, Joe, tell mewhat would be an area of your
dad game that you should reflectback.
You're like, man, that'd be anarea I probably could have got a
little bit better.

SPEAKER_02 (01:06:28):
Uh it it patience is probably one of them from from
that the just to throw the wordout there.
But I it he gave me such a uh around outlook on life.
Uh, here's a singer that lovesath athletics.
He wasn't a great athlete, hewas a diver, literally scuba

(01:06:52):
diver.
Uh he swam his whole life.
Um and my mom was the athlete,you know.
Uh, and they were able to do alot of different things.
You know, my dad, we had boats,we were lobstering in in the
keys every summer.
Um, you know, the most my motherand father probably made in a in

(01:07:15):
a single year is probably40,000,$50,000.
Uh and so, but we we didn't havewe didn't grow up in a in a life
of of luxury.
Uh, we got everything we needed,not everything we wanted.
Uh and it led to my my mantra ofmy own life.

(01:07:40):
And I tell people that that mymission statement is to help
people get what they want, andthen I'll get what I need.
And so it's it's not the wantsof the world, it's taking care
of the needs, and then it'sblany, and then all the rest is
extra.

(01:08:00):
So it just really it it the mymy upbringing with the man and
the discipline.
My mother was a strictdiscipline.
I mean, she had a paddle sittingbehind her desk, and every kid
that came in when she was uh theassistant principal of of uh uh

(01:08:20):
of conduct, and they saw thatpaddle.
That was the first thing thatthey saw.
So she was she was as hard as mydad was.
Uh, but uh, you know, they thethe two together gave me a a
great platform.
Uh it wasn't easy, uh, but itwas attainable, and and and we

(01:08:41):
got there.

SPEAKER_01 (01:08:42):
Love it.
Okay.
How can people learn more aboutJoe?
And how can they find this bookthat I absolutely am a huge fan
of?
I continue to tell people allthe time, and I hope that uh
tons of people will get thisbook because it's it is such a
good story.
So how can we make it easy forthem?

SPEAKER_02 (01:08:57):
It is.
It's uh it's on it's in Amazon.
Uh it is called White Fang andthe Golden Bear.
Uh, it is a father-son journeythrough life that culminates at
Gusta.
And uh there's a whole bunch inbetween.
And um yeah, you it's uh it'sit's a good read.
It's an easy read.
But as I said before, uh bring abring a little box of tissues

(01:09:22):
too, because uh if if if youdon't cry, then you you you
don't have emotion.
So uh I did.

SPEAKER_01 (01:09:32):
I and for the we should make sure just in case
there's a a gullible gulliblelistener out there, there's not
a scratch and sniff page,everybody.
I just want to make sure I makethat clear.
That was just me being sarcasticand making fun of myself.
Um okay, I will make sure thisis all linked in the show notes.
Thank you again, Steve Geerty,uh, for making this episode
possible.
Before I let you go, Joe, nowit's time to go into what I call

(01:09:52):
the lightning round.
All right.
And this is where I'm gonna showyou the hits of taking too many
hits in college, not bong hits,but football hits.

SPEAKER_03 (01:09:59):
Okay.

SPEAKER_01 (01:09:59):
And your job is to answer these questions as
quickly as you can.
My job is to get uh get you togiggle.

unknown (01:10:06):
Okay.

SPEAKER_01 (01:10:07):
Are you ready?
And I don't know.
I'm I don't I'm gonna show you.
I have no idea I'm gonna askyou.
It's gonna we're gonna read thedefense and just let them fly.
Here we go.
Okay.
Uh true or false, your firsthole at Augusta, you made a
quad.
False.
Okay.
Uh true or false, you hooked oneout of bounds on one unnamed

(01:10:27):
hole and hit a car.
False.
I just laughed at that dumb jokemyself, which makes no sense.
If we went into your your phoneright now.
Okay, here we go.
That's the Nicholas.
He fades it too.
Uh if we went into your phoneright now, what would be one
genre of music that your yourcolleagues uh might be surprised

(01:10:48):
you listen to?

SPEAKER_02 (01:10:49):
Oh, they hate it.
It's it's it's a slow rock 80s,70s, and 80s.

SPEAKER_01 (01:10:57):
I'm down with that.
Have you ever listened to YachtRock?

SPEAKER_02 (01:11:00):
Yacht Rock, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:11:01):
Great station.
Great station.
Um uh favorite book you've everread?

SPEAKER_02 (01:11:08):
Oh.
Uh I've read so many.
I'm listening to one right now,uh, Washington, Roy Schernow's
um book on Washington, and it'sfascinating yesterday.
Uh I didn't know that Washingtonand Jefferson and Hamilton, it's
the politics back then areexactly the politics that we're

(01:11:32):
going through right now.
It is the most talking abouttariffs, talking about France
and England, and France is goingto they're fighting England.
It just I just I don't I waslaughing yesterday.

SPEAKER_01 (01:11:45):
You think we'd learn, right?

SPEAKER_02 (01:11:47):
Yeah, you would think, right?
Brian, Brian's song would be auh one one of the uh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:11:56):
Uh favorite comedy movie of all time is uh
Caddyshack, of course.
Solid, solid.
I I uh actually, so I know thatmovie probably way too well.
And I just ordered golf ballsand it was like a free logo.
And so the first line says, uh,do you take drugs, Danny?
And then right below it is good.
I mean every day and then blowsup good.

(01:12:19):
I gotta go to Nebraska.
What?
Nebraska?
What is it?
Like 250?
I can't foot the bill foreverything, Danny.
If I came to house your housefor dinner tomorrow, tell me
what we'd have.
Tomorrow?

SPEAKER_02 (01:12:30):
Uh probably probably fillets or steaks on the grill.
Um, gotta have grilled onions,uh oil oil in the in the onions
and mushroom, and uh probablyice cream for dessert.

SPEAKER_01 (01:12:44):
There we go.
I'm getting hungry.
It's so it's dinner time here inSeattle.
Um if you were to take your wifeon vacation right now, sorry
boys, you're staying home.
Uh tell me where you take her.

SPEAKER_02 (01:12:56):
Oh my gosh.
I I I I'd have to answer it intwo different places.
Okay.
Okay.
I have to take her back to Axe,Provence and Provence, France.
We just went this summer.
It was her um her lifelong.
Uh we want to go and spendthree, four weeks there and and
and and enjoy it.

(01:13:17):
Uh I always wanted to go to umPolynesia and Kauai, and uh my
dad kind of you know, he teedthat up for me.
Uh he told us about uh I'llnever forget going into the
World War II Museum in NewOrleans, and I had my two boys
with me, and the boys were likemaybe 12 and 10, probably.

(01:13:42):
And uh they had this huge map,and it showed you where
everybody was fighting and wherethe tanks were and all of the
cities and all of this.
And here's my dad telling uswhere they landed, this, and he
he's marking where he was going.
And I turned and I looked, mywife crying, my son crying, my

(01:14:04):
other son crying, and I'm likeballing because it it got
emotional.
That here's my grandfather, myfather, the two kids wouldn't be
here, I wouldn't be here, youknow.
It it it just it was one ofthose life moments crazy.

SPEAKER_01 (01:14:20):
That museum is one of the coolest.
I'm not a big museum guy, but Ispent four and a half hours
there.
Could have spent eight.
Yep, could have spent eight.
Um, I know you we wrote a book,but I'm gonna give you a chance
to write a second book.
If there was to be a bookwritten about your life, tell me
the title.

SPEAKER_02 (01:14:36):
Faith, perseverance, and love.
My way.

SPEAKER_01 (01:14:41):
Okay.
So now that book, um uh Amazon,we we called them because we
want to order a copy.
It they can't, they've printedtoo many copies.
It's they're just selling out.
They go, I say, I'll go to theairport and get one.
It's sold out there.
I tried to get TPA andInternational, sold out.
Try to get a Barnes Noble, soldout.
So now uh Netflix has found outabout this, Joe, and they're

(01:15:02):
gonna make a movie.
You are now the castingdirector.
I need to know who's gonna starJoe Wells in this critically
acclaimed hit new movie that'sgonna just ravish Hollywood.

SPEAKER_02 (01:15:10):
Uh it it some people say Damon, some people uh if he
was still alive, I'd have mycousin Michael Landon do it.
He was my second cousin.
And uh on my mom's side.
Uh I wish he was, I wish hedidn't pass away of of of cancer
so early because it it was uh II met him a few times, but that

(01:15:32):
wasn't in the book.
The publisher wouldn't let meput it in there because it
didn't have anything to do withgolf, but uh, but it was kind of
cool.
I'd like one of the Wahlbergs.
Okay.
Tough Boston guy.
Either one, because again, um Ijust matter of fact, I just saw
the Donny's, uh, the one that itwas in the uh uh New York Blue

(01:15:54):
or whatever it was, and uh umbecause they kind of grew up
like I did, you know.
Uh Miami was a tough place backin the 70s.
Uh, you know, uh there was and Ididn't really know it.
You don't realize that whileyou're growing up, and then you
get out and you're like, whoa, Igrew up in that, you know.
ESPN 30 on 30.
You know, it was like all thosedrugs back then.

(01:16:16):
Uh I didn't know that.
It wasn't my scene.

SPEAKER_01 (01:16:20):
So I thought you might with a caddy shock, you
might surprise me with like aRodney Dangerfield or something,
but you didn't.
You you kept it you kept ittough and serious.

SPEAKER_02 (01:16:28):
I don't I don't know the stars.
I mean, it's kind of like COVIDhas just eliminated, you know,
movies and stars now, you know,for me.
It's uh I I don't I don't Idon't know them as much.
I see them and I can place them,but um, but uh I honestly I'd
love to do it myself, but thatain't gonna happen.

SPEAKER_01 (01:16:51):
Okay, and last question, the most important
one.
Tell me two words that woulddescribe your wife.

SPEAKER_02 (01:16:58):
Oh gosh.
Devoted and and loving.

SPEAKER_01 (01:17:03):
Boom.
Lightning rounds complete.
Uh thank you for spending.
Uh I know we went a little long,everybody, but it's it's so
worth it.
Uh Joe is the man, um, the oneof the most humble people I've
met and who's lived a f whocontinues to live it just an
amazing life.
And Steve Gardi again, thank youagain for making today happen.
Uh the White Fang and the GoldenBear, go get it today,

(01:17:24):
everybody.
It's um, I actually might readthe thing again just because uh
I read it maybe a couple monthsago, but now I'm like, and I'm
gonna make sure I'm gonna I willcommit to this, I'm gonna follow
my son.
If he's got some trips comingup, I'm like, bro, you better
read this thing, and therebetter be a thank you card, Mr.
Wessel.

SPEAKER_03 (01:17:39):
Okay.

SPEAKER_01 (01:17:40):
So um I'm grateful for your for your time.
Thank you for everybody at homewho continues to listen.
If you're a dad that loved thisepisode and you think uh a
friend or family member might beinspired to to hear this story
or go pick a book, please justshare the episode, make it
really, really easy for them.
Um and if you're not currentlyfollowing it, just hit subscribe
so you can make sure you get alluh every episode comes out every
Thursday.

(01:18:00):
And if you've not taken time toleave us a review wherever you
consume your podcast, um thatwould mean the world to us so we
can keep this thing going.
But Joe, appreciate your time,man.
Grateful and I and I hope thatour past will meet, uh, we'll
have we'll cross again in personso we can play golf together.

SPEAKER_02 (01:18:14):
They will definitely do that.
We're gonna make that happen.

SPEAKER_01 (01:18:17):
Let's go.
All right, have a great night.
You too.
Thanks.