October 20, 2024 • 36 mins
In this heartfelt episode of The Quiet Warrior Podcast, my guest Cheryl Lardner (co-founder of Wishkeeper) and I dive into an essential yet often overlooked topic: preparing for life’s uncertainties.
Wishkeeper is an innovative web app designed to help people organize important life information, documents, and personal wishes to ensure their loved ones are cared for during challenging times.
Cheryl shares how the tool can ease family burdens, prevent conflicts, and provide peace of mind. Listen as they explore the emotional and practical aspects of organizing your legacy and preparing for life’s unpredictable events.
Key Topics Covered:
1. What is Wishkeeper?
2. The Importance of Organizing Your Legacy
3. Features That Make Wishkeeper Unique
4. Minimizing Family Conflicts Through Clarity
5. Cheryl’s Personal Journey and Business Lessons
Connect with Cheryl Lardner and Learn More About Wishkeeper
- Visit Wishkeeper’s official website: wishkeeper.com.au for more information, resources, and personal stories about how Wishkeeper is helping families.
Invitation:
- If you love The Quiet Warrior Podcast and find what I share to be valuable, please take a moment to rate and review the podcast. CLICK HERE, scroll to the bottom, tap to rate 5 stars, and click “Write a Review”. Let me know what you found helpful in today’s episode.
- For weekly advice on how to show up in life and work with courage, confidence, and authentic self-expression, subscribe to my newsletter HERE.
- For questions about coaching, CLICK HERE to book a complimentary Zoom call.
This episode was edited by Aura House Productions
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hi, I'm Serena Loh.
If you're used to hearing thatintroverts are shy, anxious,
antisocial and lack goodcommunication and leadership
skills, then this podcast is foryou.
You're about to fall in lovewith the calm, introspective and
profound person that you are.
Discover what's fun, unique andpowerful about being an
(00:22):
introvert, and how to make theelegant transition from quiet
achiever to quiet warrior inyour life and work anytime you
want, in more ways than youimagined possible.
Welcome.
Welcome to another episode ofthe Quiet Warrior podcast.
Today we want to explore atopic that a lot of us might
(00:44):
feel uncomfortable talking about, but a necessary one because
everyone experiences it.
And I have with me a specialguest, cheryl Ladner, the
co-founder of Wishkeeper here inAustralia.
Cheryl, welcome to the QuietWarrior podcast.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Thank you so much for having me, Serena.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Cheryl, can you tell us a little bit more about
Wishkeeper?
What exactly is it?
Speaker 2 (01:11):
We get asked this many times and, put simply,
wishkeeper is a web app, so it'san online product.
We often refer to it as asoftware product that enables
you to be able to consolidatethings in your life.
When we talk about things inyour life, that could be so many
different things, but it'sreally about the information
(01:34):
that other people might need inthe event something unexpected
happens to us or at the time ofour passing, and I think it's as
you mentioned, serena, at thestart.
These are definitely themesthat most of us want to just
really comfortably put our headin the sand and not talk about.
So Wishkeeper is a reallybeautifully designed and crafted
(01:56):
product that people can gothrough and they can really just
meander through the differentsections of Wishkeeper and it
guides you through the wholeprocess, because we're not
really equipped to understandhow to work through our life,
administration, our personalwishes and then sharing that
information with people thatlove us.
(02:17):
And I know we'll get more intothe way this came about as we
continue on, so I don't want togive everything in the first
answer, but essentially it is aweb app that enables the person
to be able to consolidateimportant documents, their
personal wishes, but importantly, make it accessible to their
family.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Thank you.
So this is a web app that helpsus get ourselves organized
Absolutely Without all thefluster of the unexpected, the
emergencies and the things thathappen in life, which actually,
when you think about it, life isuncertain and anything could
happen tomorrow.
So this is about gettingprepared, and I suppose it's
(03:00):
also a way of beingself-responsible.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
I love that description.
It is about really being agrown-up and facing the reality
that life is unpredictable andthings can happen without notice
.
So often people, when they seewhat Wishkeeper is about, will
immediately think oh, this isfor the sick and dying, this is
(03:26):
for people that know they'regoing to die, and we say, yes,
of course it is a great tool forthat, but none of us know that
day and none of us want to thinkabout that day.
One of the things we talk abouta lot, serena, is, you know,
nobody really sets a goal toburden their family or to make
their loved one's life moredifficult.
(03:47):
However, by not having thisinformation in place or not
sharing what our wishes are andwhat we want to our family, we
are actually inadvertently doingthat, because we don't know
what tomorrow is going to bring.
So if something was to happento us, can we sit down and hand
on heart saying you know, we'vegiven our family and those we
(04:08):
love all the tools that they'llneed to be able to get things in
order or to be able to continuethings on if I'm incapacitated
or in hospital, or ifsomething's happened to me, you
know, have I made it easy forthem?
And unfortunately, the realityis that a lot of us the answer
to that question is no, and sowe wanted to build Wishkeeper so
that the answer would be yesand you can honestly spend two
(04:31):
hours on your Wishkeeper andsave your loved ones potentially
five to six weeks of paintrying to navigate their way
through the information thatyou've got in your life and
that's mostly kept in your head.
That makes it so much moredifficult when they're already
in a very stressful situation.
So it really is something thatwe've designed to change that
(04:57):
behaviour.
Changing behaviour is not easy.
It's not easy and it's a longjourney with Wishkeeper and it's
a lot about education.
It's also about understandingwho Wishkeeper is for and, as
I've said, it's a lot abouteducation.
It's also about understandingwho Wishkeeper is for and, as
I've said before, a lot ofpeople go to that conclusion of
it is for the aging, our oldgeneration or people that have
been given a terminal diagnosis.
But it is so much more thanthat.
(05:20):
It is for everyone that wantsto equip their loved ones with
the tools, the instructions andthe information so that, when
they're not there sitting nextto them holding their hand, they
can be through Wishkeeper.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
Something in particular that I wanted to
mention that you have just said,and that is that we carry
everything in our heads.
We carry a lot of informationin our heads and we take it for
granted that we carry everythingin our heads.
We carry a lot of informationin our heads and we take it for
granted that we will always havethe capacity to hold that
information cognitively andcontinue to do so.
And you've just reminded usthat, because life is uncertain
(05:59):
and health situations can changevery suddenly, someone could
just very quickly lose thatability to recall vital
information, and that is why youwant to download it somewhere
safe where others can access it,and I can get that from a
logical point of view.
But I'm going to assume thatmost people, myself included,
(06:21):
have got some kind of resistanceto the idea of talking about,
you know, facing these thingshead on.
You mentioned, you know, beinga grown-up and perhaps you know,
for some of us, you know, thereare aspects of our lives where
we don't feel we're grown up yet, we don't want to grow up yet,
we don't want to do the you knowwe don't want to be doing the
adult things and of having toface someone's death, having to
(06:46):
think about all that planningand what happens after.
We just want life to continueas it is now.
How do you deal with that kindof resistance?
You know, when you educatepeople.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
I think it's about being patient with people and
allowing people to come aroundin their own time.
It's hard enough to change yourown behaviours, let alone try to
change somebody else's.
So we really embarked onWishkeeper as an educational
tool, and that's why, when youdo go into your Wishkeeper and
start to explore there's around40 plus categories in there to
(07:19):
get you thinking about some ofthe things that you might need
to get out of your head and intowishkeeper.
And we're talking the obviousthings like your will or who
your power of attorney is, oreven your funeral plan, if you
do have one.
Less and less people are havingthose.
They're becoming againsomething that not many people
are wanting to go down that pathbecause the option feels like
(07:42):
to many a very traditional typeof funeral, whereas more and
more the generation of babyboomers are wanting more of a
celebration of life and they'rewanting their family to engage
in their farewell in a much morepositive way.
And so, again, wishkeeper givesyou that opportunity to be able
to really curate some of thatinformation for your family, and
it can just be the theme ofwhat your celebration of life
(08:02):
information for your family.
And it can just be the theme ofwhat your celebration of life
would be.
What do you want to do, what doyou want your family to do?
Do you want them, to all youknow, fill their glass of
bubbles and toast to the lifethat you led?
Or you know what are the littledetails in the minutiae that
you would like your family toknow about and that can?
(08:23):
be, a very empowering experienceto be able to take that
responsibility and to be able togive that to your family when
they're going to need it most.
But aside from all of thatbecause that is really the
heavier themes I guess inWishkeeper that does really give
people that feeling of dreadand they do need to take a
little while to come around tothat.
(08:44):
And that's fine, because you'vegot your whole life to do that.
But there is the otherpractical things and when we
stop and think about how complexwe've made our lives in 2024,
when you think about things likeyour insurance policies, our
digital estate, so do we have aGoogle Drive, dropbox, all of
(09:05):
our social media accounts?
There's so many footprints thatwe leave behind when we go, and
this is really important tostart to be able to think about
what.
How can I make this easy forthe people I love?
That's the bottom line withWishkeeper.
And when you create theinformation and give people that
(09:25):
information, they can access itreally easily and that's what
we call that fingertip access.
So in the event of an emergency, do you have an emergency
binder that's shoved in a linenpress or under your bed or in a
drawer that you maybe can't evenremember where it is.
What hope do your family haveof knowing where it is?
So with Wishkeeper, it's takingmodern technology and bringing
(09:47):
that to the forefront andallowing you, as the person
putting in the information, toassign that information very
specifically to the people youlove.
Now you can do that, eitherstraight away, so things that
they can access today, or youcan lock things down that won't
be released until after you'vepassed away, and there can be
(10:09):
many reasons why you wouldchoose to do that.
I think, serena, one of theprobably easiest examples that I
can share with you that we geta lot of feedback about is
there's a section in Wishkeepercalled Things I'd Like to Say,
and I think many of us havethings that we'd like to say,
and some of us would like to sayit after we're gone.
(10:31):
Whether that's positive ornegative to people, that's up to
the individual as to how theywant to use that, but what a lot
of families and a lot of peoplelike to do mums and dads in
particular is they'd like toleave a letter or a voice
recording to be accessible totheir children as they grow, and
(10:54):
so Wishkeeper can enable thatto happen.
So, if you do want to writeletters to loved ones that can
be accessed after you're gone,then it does have that
capability and the dynamicfunctionality to be able to do
that, which is a very powerfultool when you think about the
moments that matter and thethings that are important in our
(11:15):
life, when we can sit down andput pen to paper and really
share with our child whatmatters most in life and to be
able to give that to them as anongoing keepsake, well after
you're gone.
I think that's such a beautifulgift to be able to give those
that we love.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
I'm going to ask a very practical question how do
you ensure that your loved oneswill respect what you've left
behind in Wish Keeper?
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Well, unfortunately, serena, we can't guarantee that.
We can say that Wishkeeperminimises family disputes.
However, we can't guaranteethat your loved ones will follow
your instructions, because theyprobably don't, even when
you're living.
So you know, not everyone doeswhat we tell them to do.
(12:09):
But I think the premise aroundWishkeeper is the notion around
it's information coming from thesource.
So if you have a situation andwe heard from a wishmaker only
yesterday that was thanking usfor this because they know that
their two children will disputethings, because they know that
they've got very confidentchildren that have very
(12:32):
different personalities andunderstanding of things, and so
for them, when they saw whatwish keeper presented, they saw
that this was a great solutionto be able to not have different
interpretations of things thatthey might hear today that could
be changed when they need todraw on that information that
(12:54):
they've preserved mentally andheard verbally.
So with Wishkeeper, you canapply scanned, handwritten
documents.
You can record your voice.
You can record a video talkingto your children, and so if
there are things in there thatyou want to declare to them,
it's very powerful if they'rewatching a video of you saying
this, as opposed to what most ofthe time happens is the two
(13:18):
siblings battling it out in adebate of I remember it this way
or this is how I interpreted it, or no.
They definitely told me it wasto be this way.
So it really minimizes andeliminates those kinds of
conversations with your childrenor your siblings.
Yourself, I am a youngest offive and I know that we are all
(13:39):
very individual and differentadults and even when we which is
the premise around howWishkeeper came to be when we
were organising Mum's funeral,there were opposing views within
the family and within thesiblings, and we all get on
extremely well.
But at a time like that, eventhe most compassionate family
(14:04):
that has got together, you know,through their lives without
fighting.
At the time of loss, everythingcan change and we can say
things we don't mean or we canact out in a way that we're not
even, you know, we don't evenremember doing, because we're
struck with grief and so we havethat brain fog, if you like, at
(14:24):
that time when we need to knowwhat did our person want?
And if only we could have that,you know we would be able to
move through this part and worktowards celebrating their life
and managing our grief and lossfor that person.
So I think when you start tothink about the power behind
that, of that delivery of thatmessage, and how Wishkeeper can
(14:47):
deliver that message for you, Ithink you can see that, yes,
whilst we still can't completelyensure that your family will
follow it, we think it goes avery long way to getting close
to that and to minimising thosedisputes.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
It sounds to me like this is not only about keeping
wishes.
It's also about keepingfamilies intact when they could
otherwise be divided very easilyby something that's traumatic,
that's sudden, or even in ananticipated event, simply
because, I suppose you know,with a loss of a loved figure in
(15:23):
the family, the structuresuddenly changes, the dynamics
change, and things that were nottalked about much before
suddenly bubble to the surface.
And things that we assumed wewouldn much before suddenly
bubble to the surface, andthings that we assumed we
wouldn't have to deal with fordecades more are suddenly in the
present and we have to dealwith them.
And so what you're doing is youare anticipating and ironing
out some of those preventablekinks, I guess.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
Most definitely, and we have varying feedback where
people will say I haveWishkeeper because it's a place
to store my will, I can tell myfamily who my lawyer is, and
it's as simple as that.
That is solving one problem forthem in their life.
We have others and we spoke toSophia a few weeks ago and I
(16:06):
said to her is it okay if Imention you on the podcast?
And she said and I said to heris it okay if I mention you on
the podcast?
And she said absolutely fine,and she uses so much of
Wishkeeper because she knowsthat she is the driver in the
household with her husband andher children.
And she said I always used toworry about what would happen to
(16:27):
them if something unexpectedhappens to me, because it can
happen and we do hear stories ofpeople going suddenly and,
whilst it is an absolutely awfulthing to consider, what is more
awful is the state that wewould leave our family in, and
just a couple of hours inwishkeeper can prevent a lot of
that.
And she actually has right downto how to use the washing
(16:49):
machine in her wishkeeperbecause she knows that there's
so many different tasks thatthey will be lost and that
period of time for their, forher children will be so much
more traumatic by just notknowing the basics.
Um, so you know it's.
It's a fiercely practical tool,but it's also an incredibly
(17:11):
deeply emotional tool as well.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
I like that.
It combines the emotional withthe practical.
But could you run us throughyou know in a very high level
way perhaps how that works?
So someone signs up for, let'ssay, a subscription with
Wishkeeper and that gives themaccess to all the tools
available, and so they make useof that, and then how do they
let their loved ones know thatthey are using Wishkeeper and
(17:38):
how do their loved ones accessthat upon their passing?
Speaker 2 (17:41):
Yeah, great question With Wishkeeper.
Once you do have yourWishkeeper that, like you said,
there's a dashboard and you signinto it and there's all of the
categories are presented to youin a very beautiful way, and
part of Wishkeeper that you seein Wishkeeper is about what we
call your ambassadors, andambassadors are those people
that you trust implicitly inyour life.
(18:02):
Now you can have up to 10 ofthose people and the average we
find that people have is aroundfive.
It would be a partner, asibling, an adult child.
It could be a best friend thatyou've had from high school or a
workplace that you've reallystood the test of time and you
share everything with each other, and that's a very typical
scenario that we find from ourcustomers of what they have.
(18:24):
So when you decide on thosepeople, you invite them, through
Wishkeeper, to be a part of andto be an ambassador for you.
So that's free for them to dothat and to take on that
responsibility.
They'll have then their ownusername and password to go into
their own what we call theambassador hub, and that will
enable them to be able to accessthe information that you
(18:45):
release to them at any giventime.
So where I mentioned thatthere's all of those different
categories.
When you're enteringinformation about yourself or
the household or your businessor anything at all, you'll be
given an opportunity to actuallyassign commissions to each of
those ambassadors.
Now there could be someinformation that you don't want
(19:06):
those particular ambassadors tosee.
There could be information thatyou want ambassadors to see
straight away, and that would beif there is an emergency
situation that they need thatfingertip access, so it could be
around your medications, yourmedical conditions, who your
specialists are that you see.
So that information could bevery handy in an emergency
(19:27):
situation if there's a healthevent or something that has
happened that they need thatinformation in a hurry, whereas
there could be some informationthat you wanted to lock down
until after you pass away, andso you've got that and it's
literally just a button to tickand that's as simple as it is to
be able to have that access.
So when those ambassadors areinvited and they have their own
(19:51):
ambassador hub, they're notifiedevery time you make a change.
Every time you make a change toyour wishkeeper or add some new
information for them, they'llbe notified that that is there.
So it reduces the fact thatthey may forget that they're an
ambassador for you, and we alsosend them information
periodically to just remind themof their role and
responsibility as yourambassador.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
I want to circle back , though, to the underlying,
perhaps the emotions or thebeliefs around death and dying
and the progressive losing offaculties.
I'm just wondering for peoplewho are perhaps experiencing
cognitive decline over a periodof time are they also able to
(20:34):
take advantage of wishkeeper?
Speaker 2 (20:37):
Yeah, absolutely, and it's a great question because
there is some legalconsiderations.
When somebody is in cognitivedecline and we often hear the
term are they sound of mind tomake these decisions?
So I think we do have to treadwith caution, but I think if a
person, if there is, for example, an early onset dementia
(20:59):
diagnosis and somebody is awareof what's ahead of them and they
can sit either with theirlawyer or their spouse or a
family member to share thatexperience with them, the thing
with Wishkeeper is, yes, it's adeeply personal tool, but you
don't have to do it alone.
And that is the really importantpart of Wishkeeper is don't do
(21:22):
those things alone and havesomebody with you that is
trusted, that can sit with youat your computer and you can go
through the sections and thenactually document some of that
information, knowing that withthat diagnosis, that you are
going to start to have somecognitive impairment and some
memory disruption as well.
So it's really important thento be able to document things
(21:44):
while you can, while you'restill in a in a capacity to be
able to do so.
And I think in that situationhaving firsthand experience with
a mother who had veryaggressive dementia you do have
to tread carefully because therewill be some confronting times
through that journey and itmight be again, as I mentioned,
(22:07):
having a legal or a professionaladvisor present through that
process can be quite importantand can be also quite helpful
when you are dealing withsomebody that is potentially
going to have some of thatdisruption in their cognitive
ability.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
The thing with human nature is we often wait till
there is that wake-up call orsomething that happens to
disrupt our normal routinebefore we will turn our
attention to something asimportant as this.
And this is what you're sayingis.
This is something that everyperson should be taking
advantage of in order to, youknow, have our affairs, in order
(22:44):
ensure our loved ones are notextra traumatized by what's
happening and having to scurryaround looking for vital
information.
But I can also sense that thisdeep reluctance to confront, to
look at things as they are, ormaybe it's because our lives are
so busy and so distracted thatwe've become overwhelmed by all
(23:04):
the extra.
You mentioned at the start ofour conversation that our lives
have become very complicatedbecause of all digital estate.
I think perhaps the laypersonmight not even understand what
that term means, but then youdid clarify that it means your
Google Drive, your Dropbox,perhaps your passwords and all
the things and the digitalfootprint that we leave on
(23:24):
social media, and these thingsare just.
They get more rather than less,and so is there a way for us to
perhaps prepare to interactwith Wishkeeper by doing
something before that, to manageour lives and be able to get a
handle and be able to say I knowwhere things are, I know what
(23:46):
list I have to get ready inorder to be able to take
advantage of Wishkeeper.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
Yeah, and I think it's about diving into
Wishkeeper and allowingWishkeeper to help you do that,
because we have complicated ourlives and, in many cases,
overcomplicated our lives, andthe amount of things that we
need to keep track of in thismodern era can be so
overwhelming.
And there is something to besaid about decluttering your
(24:17):
life administration.
Often, if you're a businessowner or working for a business
and you know we put a lot ofenergy into making sure the
business is running well andwe're doing everything right and
we're getting our to-do listsin order and strategic plans and
collaborating and all of thosegreat things that make a
business run successfully.
(24:39):
Yet somehow there's a blindspot in applying those same
principles to our own life, andWishkeeper is a way.
Once you start to look intothat I'll give you an example is
insurance policies.
Once you start to document allof the different insurance
policies that you have inWishkeeper, you might start to
(25:00):
realise that you might be alittle bit over-insured and I
know insurance brokers won'twant to hear me saying this, but
the reality is that we docobble things together in our
life as we travel through life,but how often do we stop and
reflect and think about thethings that we no longer need or
that no longer serve us anymore, and so Wishkeeper is a very
(25:22):
powerful way to declutter yourlife, admin, and to start to
realize, actually, those thingsare not important to me, those
things don't matter to meanymore.
It's really important for me tostart thinking about my legacy.
How do I want to be remembered?
What are the moments thatreally matter to me and what is
important to me?
(25:43):
And when you start to reallyget clarity on those things in
your life, you can have anenormous shift in well-being.
And, as I mentioned, inbusiness we're doing this every
day.
We're thinking about how tocreate the best, most successful
business, not just forourselves, but for the people
(26:04):
that we employ.
But when we turn that lens onourselves and our family, I ask
the question are we applying thesame level of due diligence and
consistency and strategy to howwe're living our life with the
people that we love?
Speaker 1 (26:21):
I like how you've simplified that and really
brought us back to the meaningand the purpose behind
Wishkeeper, and that isdecluttering our life, admin,
not something we all enjoy doing, not something we really think
about actively, but so necessarybecause life is unpredictable.
I would like to ask you aquestion from the business point
of view, as a business personcreating this business from
(26:43):
something that has affected youpersonally.
What has been your biggestlearning on this journey?
Speaker 2 (26:51):
Well, there's been many, but one of the things that
I think, when you embark on aproject, that you're driven from
a lived experience and you'veseen that there's a gap and
you've seen that behaviour canchange, you really need to be
ready to sit in that saddle ofthat horse for a very long time
(27:14):
and you need gumption, you needto be able to stick to it.
I think it takes a great mindto start and to think of an idea
.
It takes an even greater mindto start the idea.
But it really does takeextraordinary effort to finish
and complete something.
(27:34):
And I can tell you, serena,there were many times we did not
get to that part three and itpushed us to so many ledges to
say this is too much, this istoo difficult.
How could we possibly thinkthat we could change the way
humans work?
(27:56):
And we're still to find out ifwe are going to do that.
We know for thousands, we havealready.
But this is a journey that is along one because it is about
changing behaviours.
So I think when you'reembarking on a business, you do
need to think about the longgame, and it's difficult to be
(28:16):
able to forecast that, but Ithink the more you can speak
with other business owners,particularly ones that have
created a unique businessproposition that perhaps doesn't
exist.
How do they go about buildingand having the stamina to keep
going?
And the reality is it's messy,it's scrappy, it's hard.
(28:40):
There's times when you don'twant to get out of bed because
you've got so much on your to-dolist and you just think where
do I start?
I'm just going to stay here inthe comfort of my bed, watch
Netflix and just avoid it all.
But you get through those daysbecause you someone will say
something, or you'll seesomething, or you'll hear about
something that's happened to aperson or somebody that you know
(29:02):
has known, someone that'spassed away suddenly and they
don't know what to do, and youhear those things and it just
reignites that drive to keepgoing.
But you do need people aroundyou to help you and support you
through that, and I think andthe premise around Serena the
Quiet Warrior is that reluctanceto seek help and the desire to
(29:29):
think.
If this, this is to be, it's upto me.
That doesn't mean that you haveto do it alone.
You can still have peoplearound you that can support your
mission and your goal, andthat's critically important when
you're embarking on somethingthat maybe no one has paved the
path before you.
So, yeah, we certainly have hadmany of those challenging times,
(29:51):
but it's been incrediblyrewarding to get to the end
point and to hear from peoplethat are using Wishkeeper and
how it is.
It was hard for them to useWishkeeper but now they very
quickly have become accustomedto creating what we call the
Wishkeeper habit, which is whensomething wonderful happens in
their life and they'll record avideo and it's a really special
(30:14):
one, not just one we'd keep inour phone.
They can upload it straightinto their wishkeeper because
they know it's a defining momentor a memorable moment they want
to treasure and create thatkeepsake for their family.
So, whether that's, you know,bob's first birthday or great
grandmother's 100th birthday,whatever it might be, they're
important moments to capture andreflect and more and more we're
(30:35):
living in our phones and ourphones are not going to see us
through.
It's the people around us thatare, and the phone's not going
to pass on those memories.
But Wishkeeper can do that foryou.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
You're giving me goosebumps, Cheryl, when you
talked about those special corememories that you can upload
into Wishkeeper straight awayand your family can be comforted
and laugh again and, you know,feel some of that magic again
when they watch those videos,and I think that is a beautiful
way to wrap up this discussion.
(31:08):
That death is always coming forus.
It is something that we canplan for to some extent.
That it's about declutteringlife at min.
It is about making thingseasier for loved ones.
It is also taking back ourpower to communicate and share
the things that are important tous, that we want to pass on as
(31:29):
a legacy to our loved ones and away for us, I guess, to leave
our imprint in the mostwholesome, most beautiful, most
organized way possible usingsoftware.
So what is the next iterationfor Wishkeeper?
What's next that you're workingon?
Speaker 2 (31:46):
Well, we do already have our next iteration, which
is Wishkeeper Connect, whichworks with professional services
that are working with theirclients on these themes, and
it's a beautiful serviceextension for people like wills
and estate lawyers, familylawyers, financial advisors and
people that are really wantingto give much more than facts and
(32:11):
figures and numbers and toreally provide a whole solution
to their clients.
But some of the other thingsthat we are looking at and
working towards in the future.
Obviously, ai is something thatalmost everybody is talking
about at the moment and we'renot in a rush for that, but we
do understand how AI can reallyassist people with understanding
(32:34):
what's available to them.
So eventually, we'd like to getto the phase where Wishkeeper
is a platform where you can putin what your interests are, what
you like, what your dislikesare, and it will curate some
suggestions for you around whatyou might want to consider, and
that could be a very powerfulway to bring all of that
information that is already outthere and somewhat accessible,
(32:57):
but when you're thinking aboutit for yourself can be quite
difficult.
So there is some of those typesof advances that we're looking
at at the moment that are on theroadmap, but we want to make
sure that they're done reallywell.
At the moment, I thinkeveryone's very much in love
with ChatGPT and we can spot ita mile away sometimes and I
think people.
(33:17):
It's a shiny new toy thateveryone loves using, which is
quite fun.
But when we're thinking aboutAI, it's much deeper than that
and it's much more about a toolto assist and support rather
than to replace your thinking oryour actions, and so that's
where we want to do that really,really well, and so we're
excited about what that canbring to people through
Wishkeeper.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
How can people connect with you and find out
more about Wishkeeper?
Speaker 2 (33:43):
Well, the easiest way , sorina, is through our website
, which is easy to remember.
It's wishkeepercomau, andthere's a lot of information on
there and videos aboutWishkeeper, so people can
certainly watch those videos.
They can connect directly to usmyself and David, my business
partner, who together we builtthis, both from different and
(34:06):
varied lived experiences, so youcan contact both of us through
the website as well, and we lovetalking to people that are
interested and we're very muchin the business.
We have other people thatsupport us, but we feel that the
only way we're going to createWishkeeper as a household name
is to be right there with ourcustomers, and so the more we
(34:26):
can talk to you, even if you'rejust mildly interested, we would
love to discuss your journeyand where you're at in your
stage of life and how Wishkeepercan perhaps help you.
And I think the most importantand most telling thing with
Wishkeeper is and the message Iguess we want people to
understand, because it is adifficult theme to think about
(34:47):
is there's something incrediblypowerful about simply
acknowledging that our time onthe planet is limited and once
we do have that shift, the lifethat we will live is so much
more empowered and we will takeless things for granted and it
(35:08):
will inadvertently bring moremeaning into every day for you
and you will ultimately spendmore of your energy and more of
your time on the things you love, with the people you love, and
if we can do that and have thatshift for people, then I feel
like we've done our job.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
Cheryl, thank you so much for coming on the Quiet
Warrior podcast today to sharewith us about Wishkeeper
software and how every one of uscan access that, and if you're
listening to this episode, docheck out the show notes as well
, for all the links to Cheryl'ssocials as well as the
Wishkeeper website.
Have a look at it and have athink also about how it's going
(35:48):
to affect not only you yourself,but also your loved ones.
It's perhaps a good time topause from our busy schedule to
think about life and death,about ultimate issues, about
what happens outside ofourselves, about the things that
are bigger than ourselves, thatwe are just a tiny part of.
So thank you so much, cheryl,for inspiring this conversation
(36:09):
today, and if you've enjoyedthis episode, remember to take
30 seconds to rate and review iton your favorite listening
platform.
Thank you, and see you on thenext episode of the Quiet
Warrior podcast.
I'm so grateful that you're heretoday.
If you found this contentvaluable, please share it on
your social media channels andsubscribe to the show on your
(36:31):
favorite listening platform.
Together, we can help moreintroverts thrive.
To receive more upliftingcontent like this, connect with
me on Instagram at Serena LoQuiet Warrior Coach, thank you
for sharing your time and yourenergy with me.
See you on the next episode.
Hi, I'm Serena Loh.
If you're used to hearing thatintroverts are shy, anxious,
antisocial and lack goodcommunication and leadership
skills, then this podcast is foryou.
You're about to fall in lovewith the calm, introspective and
profound person that you are.
Discover what's fun, unique andpowerful about being an
(00:22):
introvert, and how to make theelegant transition from quiet
achiever to quiet warrior inyour life and work anytime you
want, in more ways than youimagined possible.
Welcome.
Welcome to another episode ofthe Quiet Warrior podcast.
Today we want to explore atopic that a lot of us might
(00:44):
feel uncomfortable talking about, but a necessary one because
everyone experiences it.
And I have with me a specialguest, cheryl Ladner, the
co-founder of Wishkeeper here inAustralia.
Cheryl, welcome to the QuietWarrior podcast.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Thank you so much for having me, Serena.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Cheryl, can you tell us a little bit more about
Wishkeeper?
What exactly is it?
Speaker 2 (01:11):
We get asked this many times and, put simply,
wishkeeper is a web app, so it'san online product.
We often refer to it as asoftware product that enables
you to be able to consolidatethings in your life.
When we talk about things inyour life, that could be so many
different things, but it'sreally about the information
(01:34):
that other people might need inthe event something unexpected
happens to us or at the time ofour passing, and I think it's as
you mentioned, serena, at thestart.
These are definitely themesthat most of us want to just
really comfortably put our headin the sand and not talk about.
So Wishkeeper is a reallybeautifully designed and crafted
(01:56):
product that people can gothrough and they can really just
meander through the differentsections of Wishkeeper and it
guides you through the wholeprocess, because we're not
really equipped to understandhow to work through our life,
administration, our personalwishes and then sharing that
information with people thatlove us.
(02:17):
And I know we'll get more intothe way this came about as we
continue on, so I don't want togive everything in the first
answer, but essentially it is aweb app that enables the person
to be able to consolidateimportant documents, their
personal wishes, but importantly, make it accessible to their
family.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Thank you.
So this is a web app that helpsus get ourselves organized
Absolutely Without all thefluster of the unexpected, the
emergencies and the things thathappen in life, which actually,
when you think about it, life isuncertain and anything could
happen tomorrow.
So this is about gettingprepared, and I suppose it's
(03:00):
also a way of beingself-responsible.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
I love that description.
It is about really being agrown-up and facing the reality
that life is unpredictable andthings can happen without notice
.
So often people, when they seewhat Wishkeeper is about, will
immediately think oh, this isfor the sick and dying, this is
(03:26):
for people that know they'regoing to die, and we say, yes,
of course it is a great tool forthat, but none of us know that
day and none of us want to thinkabout that day.
One of the things we talk abouta lot, serena, is, you know,
nobody really sets a goal toburden their family or to make
their loved one's life moredifficult.
(03:47):
However, by not having thisinformation in place or not
sharing what our wishes are andwhat we want to our family, we
are actually inadvertently doingthat, because we don't know
what tomorrow is going to bring.
So if something was to happento us, can we sit down and hand
on heart saying you know, we'vegiven our family and those we
(04:08):
love all the tools that they'llneed to be able to get things in
order or to be able to continuethings on if I'm incapacitated
or in hospital, or ifsomething's happened to me, you
know, have I made it easy forthem?
And unfortunately, the realityis that a lot of us the answer
to that question is no, and sowe wanted to build Wishkeeper so
that the answer would be yesand you can honestly spend two
(04:31):
hours on your Wishkeeper andsave your loved ones potentially
five to six weeks of paintrying to navigate their way
through the information thatyou've got in your life and
that's mostly kept in your head.
That makes it so much moredifficult when they're already
in a very stressful situation.
So it really is something thatwe've designed to change that
(04:57):
behaviour.
Changing behaviour is not easy.
It's not easy and it's a longjourney with Wishkeeper and it's
a lot about education.
It's also about understandingwho Wishkeeper is for and, as
I've said, it's a lot abouteducation.
It's also about understandingwho Wishkeeper is for and, as
I've said before, a lot ofpeople go to that conclusion of
it is for the aging, our oldgeneration or people that have
been given a terminal diagnosis.
But it is so much more thanthat.
(05:20):
It is for everyone that wantsto equip their loved ones with
the tools, the instructions andthe information so that, when
they're not there sitting nextto them holding their hand, they
can be through Wishkeeper.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
Something in particular that I wanted to
mention that you have just said,and that is that we carry
everything in our heads.
We carry a lot of informationin our heads and we take it for
granted that we carry everythingin our heads.
We carry a lot of informationin our heads and we take it for
granted that we will always havethe capacity to hold that
information cognitively andcontinue to do so.
And you've just reminded usthat, because life is uncertain
(05:59):
and health situations can changevery suddenly, someone could
just very quickly lose thatability to recall vital
information, and that is why youwant to download it somewhere
safe where others can access it,and I can get that from a
logical point of view.
But I'm going to assume thatmost people, myself included,
(06:21):
have got some kind of resistanceto the idea of talking about,
you know, facing these thingshead on.
You mentioned, you know, beinga grown-up and perhaps you know,
for some of us, you know, thereare aspects of our lives where
we don't feel we're grown up yet, we don't want to grow up yet,
we don't want to do the you knowwe don't want to be doing the
adult things and of having toface someone's death, having to
(06:46):
think about all that planningand what happens after.
We just want life to continueas it is now.
How do you deal with that kindof resistance?
You know, when you educatepeople.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
I think it's about being patient with people and
allowing people to come aroundin their own time.
It's hard enough to change yourown behaviours, let alone try to
change somebody else's.
So we really embarked onWishkeeper as an educational
tool, and that's why, when youdo go into your Wishkeeper and
start to explore there's around40 plus categories in there to
(07:19):
get you thinking about some ofthe things that you might need
to get out of your head and intowishkeeper.
And we're talking the obviousthings like your will or who
your power of attorney is, oreven your funeral plan, if you
do have one.
Less and less people are havingthose.
They're becoming againsomething that not many people
are wanting to go down that pathbecause the option feels like
(07:42):
to many a very traditional typeof funeral, whereas more and
more the generation of babyboomers are wanting more of a
celebration of life and they'rewanting their family to engage
in their farewell in a much morepositive way.
And so, again, wishkeeper givesyou that opportunity to be able
to really curate some of thatinformation for your family, and
it can just be the theme ofwhat your celebration of life
(08:02):
information for your family.
And it can just be the theme ofwhat your celebration of life
would be.
What do you want to do, what doyou want your family to do?
Do you want them, to all youknow, fill their glass of
bubbles and toast to the lifethat you led?
Or you know what are the littledetails in the minutiae that
you would like your family toknow about and that can?
(08:23):
be, a very empowering experienceto be able to take that
responsibility and to be able togive that to your family when
they're going to need it most.
But aside from all of thatbecause that is really the
heavier themes I guess inWishkeeper that does really give
people that feeling of dreadand they do need to take a
little while to come around tothat.
(08:44):
And that's fine, because you'vegot your whole life to do that.
But there is the otherpractical things and when we
stop and think about how complexwe've made our lives in 2024,
when you think about things likeyour insurance policies, our
digital estate, so do we have aGoogle Drive, dropbox, all of
(09:05):
our social media accounts?
There's so many footprints thatwe leave behind when we go, and
this is really important tostart to be able to think about
what.
How can I make this easy forthe people I love?
That's the bottom line withWishkeeper.
And when you create theinformation and give people that
(09:25):
information, they can access itreally easily and that's what
we call that fingertip access.
So in the event of an emergency, do you have an emergency
binder that's shoved in a linenpress or under your bed or in a
drawer that you maybe can't evenremember where it is.
What hope do your family haveof knowing where it is?
So with Wishkeeper, it's takingmodern technology and bringing
(09:47):
that to the forefront andallowing you, as the person
putting in the information, toassign that information very
specifically to the people youlove.
Now you can do that, eitherstraight away, so things that
they can access today, or youcan lock things down that won't
be released until after you'vepassed away, and there can be
(10:09):
many reasons why you wouldchoose to do that.
I think, serena, one of theprobably easiest examples that I
can share with you that we geta lot of feedback about is
there's a section in Wishkeepercalled Things I'd Like to Say,
and I think many of us havethings that we'd like to say,
and some of us would like to sayit after we're gone.
(10:31):
Whether that's positive ornegative to people, that's up to
the individual as to how theywant to use that, but what a lot
of families and a lot of peoplelike to do mums and dads in
particular is they'd like toleave a letter or a voice
recording to be accessible totheir children as they grow, and
(10:54):
so Wishkeeper can enable thatto happen.
So, if you do want to writeletters to loved ones that can
be accessed after you're gone,then it does have that
capability and the dynamicfunctionality to be able to do
that, which is a very powerfultool when you think about the
moments that matter and thethings that are important in our
(11:15):
life, when we can sit down andput pen to paper and really
share with our child whatmatters most in life and to be
able to give that to them as anongoing keepsake, well after
you're gone.
I think that's such a beautifulgift to be able to give those
that we love.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
I'm going to ask a very practical question how do
you ensure that your loved oneswill respect what you've left
behind in Wish Keeper?
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Well, unfortunately, serena, we can't guarantee that.
We can say that Wishkeeperminimises family disputes.
However, we can't guaranteethat your loved ones will follow
your instructions, because theyprobably don't, even when
you're living.
So you know, not everyone doeswhat we tell them to do.
(12:09):
But I think the premise aroundWishkeeper is the notion around
it's information coming from thesource.
So if you have a situation andwe heard from a wishmaker only
yesterday that was thanking usfor this because they know that
their two children will disputethings, because they know that
they've got very confidentchildren that have very
(12:32):
different personalities andunderstanding of things, and so
for them, when they saw whatwish keeper presented, they saw
that this was a great solutionto be able to not have different
interpretations of things thatthey might hear today that could
be changed when they need todraw on that information that
(12:54):
they've preserved mentally andheard verbally.
So with Wishkeeper, you canapply scanned, handwritten
documents.
You can record your voice.
You can record a video talkingto your children, and so if
there are things in there thatyou want to declare to them,
it's very powerful if they'rewatching a video of you saying
this, as opposed to what most ofthe time happens is the two
(13:18):
siblings battling it out in adebate of I remember it this way
or this is how I interpreted it, or no.
They definitely told me it wasto be this way.
So it really minimizes andeliminates those kinds of
conversations with your childrenor your siblings.
Yourself, I am a youngest offive and I know that we are all
(13:39):
very individual and differentadults and even when we which is
the premise around howWishkeeper came to be when we
were organising Mum's funeral,there were opposing views within
the family and within thesiblings, and we all get on
extremely well.
But at a time like that, eventhe most compassionate family
(14:04):
that has got together, you know,through their lives without
fighting.
At the time of loss, everythingcan change and we can say
things we don't mean or we canact out in a way that we're not
even, you know, we don't evenremember doing, because we're
struck with grief and so we havethat brain fog, if you like, at
(14:24):
that time when we need to knowwhat did our person want?
And if only we could have that,you know we would be able to
move through this part and worktowards celebrating their life
and managing our grief and lossfor that person.
So I think when you start tothink about the power behind
that, of that delivery of thatmessage, and how Wishkeeper can
(14:47):
deliver that message for you, Ithink you can see that, yes,
whilst we still can't completelyensure that your family will
follow it, we think it goes avery long way to getting close
to that and to minimising thosedisputes.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
It sounds to me like this is not only about keeping
wishes.
It's also about keepingfamilies intact when they could
otherwise be divided very easilyby something that's traumatic,
that's sudden, or even in ananticipated event, simply
because, I suppose you know,with a loss of a loved figure in
(15:23):
the family, the structuresuddenly changes, the dynamics
change, and things that were nottalked about much before
suddenly bubble to the surface.
And things that we assumed wewouldn much before suddenly
bubble to the surface, andthings that we assumed we
wouldn't have to deal with fordecades more are suddenly in the
present and we have to dealwith them.
And so what you're doing is youare anticipating and ironing
out some of those preventablekinks, I guess.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
Most definitely, and we have varying feedback where
people will say I haveWishkeeper because it's a place
to store my will, I can tell myfamily who my lawyer is, and
it's as simple as that.
That is solving one problem forthem in their life.
We have others and we spoke toSophia a few weeks ago and I
(16:06):
said to her is it okay if Imention you on the podcast?
And she said and I said to heris it okay if I mention you on
the podcast?
And she said absolutely fine,and she uses so much of
Wishkeeper because she knowsthat she is the driver in the
household with her husband andher children.
And she said I always used toworry about what would happen to
(16:27):
them if something unexpectedhappens to me, because it can
happen and we do hear stories ofpeople going suddenly and,
whilst it is an absolutely awfulthing to consider, what is more
awful is the state that wewould leave our family in, and
just a couple of hours inwishkeeper can prevent a lot of
that.
And she actually has right downto how to use the washing
(16:49):
machine in her wishkeeperbecause she knows that there's
so many different tasks thatthey will be lost and that
period of time for their, forher children will be so much
more traumatic by just notknowing the basics.
Um, so you know it's.
It's a fiercely practical tool,but it's also an incredibly
(17:11):
deeply emotional tool as well.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
I like that.
It combines the emotional withthe practical.
But could you run us throughyou know in a very high level
way perhaps how that works?
So someone signs up for, let'ssay, a subscription with
Wishkeeper and that gives themaccess to all the tools
available, and so they make useof that, and then how do they
let their loved ones know thatthey are using Wishkeeper and
(17:38):
how do their loved ones accessthat upon their passing?
Speaker 2 (17:41):
Yeah, great question With Wishkeeper.
Once you do have yourWishkeeper that, like you said,
there's a dashboard and you signinto it and there's all of the
categories are presented to youin a very beautiful way, and
part of Wishkeeper that you seein Wishkeeper is about what we
call your ambassadors, andambassadors are those people
that you trust implicitly inyour life.
(18:02):
Now you can have up to 10 ofthose people and the average we
find that people have is aroundfive.
It would be a partner, asibling, an adult child.
It could be a best friend thatyou've had from high school or a
workplace that you've reallystood the test of time and you
share everything with each other, and that's a very typical
scenario that we find from ourcustomers of what they have.
(18:24):
So when you decide on thosepeople, you invite them, through
Wishkeeper, to be a part of andto be an ambassador for you.
So that's free for them to dothat and to take on that
responsibility.
They'll have then their ownusername and password to go into
their own what we call theambassador hub, and that will
enable them to be able to accessthe information that you
(18:45):
release to them at any giventime.
So where I mentioned thatthere's all of those different
categories.
When you're enteringinformation about yourself or
the household or your businessor anything at all, you'll be
given an opportunity to actuallyassign commissions to each of
those ambassadors.
Now there could be someinformation that you don't want
(19:06):
those particular ambassadors tosee.
There could be information thatyou want ambassadors to see
straight away, and that would beif there is an emergency
situation that they need thatfingertip access, so it could be
around your medications, yourmedical conditions, who your
specialists are that you see.
So that information could bevery handy in an emergency
(19:27):
situation if there's a healthevent or something that has
happened that they need thatinformation in a hurry, whereas
there could be some informationthat you wanted to lock down
until after you pass away, andso you've got that and it's
literally just a button to tickand that's as simple as it is to
be able to have that access.
So when those ambassadors areinvited and they have their own
(19:51):
ambassador hub, they're notifiedevery time you make a change.
Every time you make a change toyour wishkeeper or add some new
information for them, they'llbe notified that that is there.
So it reduces the fact thatthey may forget that they're an
ambassador for you, and we alsosend them information
periodically to just remind themof their role and
responsibility as yourambassador.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
I want to circle back , though, to the underlying,
perhaps the emotions or thebeliefs around death and dying
and the progressive losing offaculties.
I'm just wondering for peoplewho are perhaps experiencing
cognitive decline over a periodof time are they also able to
(20:34):
take advantage of wishkeeper?
Speaker 2 (20:37):
Yeah, absolutely, and it's a great question because
there is some legalconsiderations.
When somebody is in cognitivedecline and we often hear the
term are they sound of mind tomake these decisions?
So I think we do have to treadwith caution, but I think if a
person, if there is, for example, an early onset dementia
(20:59):
diagnosis and somebody is awareof what's ahead of them and they
can sit either with theirlawyer or their spouse or a
family member to share thatexperience with them, the thing
with Wishkeeper is, yes, it's adeeply personal tool, but you
don't have to do it alone.
And that is the really importantpart of Wishkeeper is don't do
(21:22):
those things alone and havesomebody with you that is
trusted, that can sit with youat your computer and you can go
through the sections and thenactually document some of that
information, knowing that withthat diagnosis, that you are
going to start to have somecognitive impairment and some
memory disruption as well.
So it's really important thento be able to document things
(21:44):
while you can, while you'restill in a in a capacity to be
able to do so.
And I think in that situationhaving firsthand experience with
a mother who had veryaggressive dementia you do have
to tread carefully because therewill be some confronting times
through that journey and itmight be again, as I mentioned,
(22:07):
having a legal or a professionaladvisor present through that
process can be quite importantand can be also quite helpful
when you are dealing withsomebody that is potentially
going to have some of thatdisruption in their cognitive
ability.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
The thing with human nature is we often wait till
there is that wake-up call orsomething that happens to
disrupt our normal routinebefore we will turn our
attention to something asimportant as this.
And this is what you're sayingis.
This is something that everyperson should be taking
advantage of in order to, youknow, have our affairs, in order
(22:44):
ensure our loved ones are notextra traumatized by what's
happening and having to scurryaround looking for vital
information.
But I can also sense that thisdeep reluctance to confront, to
look at things as they are, ormaybe it's because our lives are
so busy and so distracted thatwe've become overwhelmed by all
(23:04):
the extra.
You mentioned at the start ofour conversation that our lives
have become very complicatedbecause of all digital estate.
I think perhaps the laypersonmight not even understand what
that term means, but then youdid clarify that it means your
Google Drive, your Dropbox,perhaps your passwords and all
the things and the digitalfootprint that we leave on
(23:24):
social media, and these thingsare just.
They get more rather than less,and so is there a way for us to
perhaps prepare to interactwith Wishkeeper by doing
something before that, to manageour lives and be able to get a
handle and be able to say I knowwhere things are, I know what
(23:46):
list I have to get ready inorder to be able to take
advantage of Wishkeeper.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
Yeah, and I think it's about diving into
Wishkeeper and allowingWishkeeper to help you do that,
because we have complicated ourlives and, in many cases,
overcomplicated our lives, andthe amount of things that we
need to keep track of in thismodern era can be so
overwhelming.
And there is something to besaid about decluttering your
(24:17):
life administration.
Often, if you're a businessowner or working for a business
and you know we put a lot ofenergy into making sure the
business is running well andwe're doing everything right and
we're getting our to-do listsin order and strategic plans and
collaborating and all of thosegreat things that make a
business run successfully.
(24:39):
Yet somehow there's a blindspot in applying those same
principles to our own life, andWishkeeper is a way.
Once you start to look intothat I'll give you an example is
insurance policies.
Once you start to document allof the different insurance
policies that you have inWishkeeper, you might start to
(25:00):
realise that you might be alittle bit over-insured and I
know insurance brokers won'twant to hear me saying this, but
the reality is that we docobble things together in our
life as we travel through life,but how often do we stop and
reflect and think about thethings that we no longer need or
that no longer serve us anymore, and so Wishkeeper is a very
(25:22):
powerful way to declutter yourlife, admin, and to start to
realize, actually, those thingsare not important to me, those
things don't matter to meanymore.
It's really important for me tostart thinking about my legacy.
How do I want to be remembered?
What are the moments thatreally matter to me and what is
important to me?
(25:43):
And when you start to reallyget clarity on those things in
your life, you can have anenormous shift in well-being.
And, as I mentioned, inbusiness we're doing this every
day.
We're thinking about how tocreate the best, most successful
business, not just forourselves, but for the people
(26:04):
that we employ.
But when we turn that lens onourselves and our family, I ask
the question are we applying thesame level of due diligence and
consistency and strategy to howwe're living our life with the
people that we love?
Speaker 1 (26:21):
I like how you've simplified that and really
brought us back to the meaningand the purpose behind
Wishkeeper, and that isdecluttering our life, admin,
not something we all enjoy doing, not something we really think
about actively, but so necessarybecause life is unpredictable.
I would like to ask you aquestion from the business point
of view, as a business personcreating this business from
(26:43):
something that has affected youpersonally.
What has been your biggestlearning on this journey?
Speaker 2 (26:51):
Well, there's been many, but one of the things that
I think, when you embark on aproject, that you're driven from
a lived experience and you'veseen that there's a gap and
you've seen that behaviour canchange, you really need to be
ready to sit in that saddle ofthat horse for a very long time
(27:14):
and you need gumption, you needto be able to stick to it.
I think it takes a great mindto start and to think of an idea
.
It takes an even greater mindto start the idea.
But it really does takeextraordinary effort to finish
and complete something.
(27:34):
And I can tell you, serena,there were many times we did not
get to that part three and itpushed us to so many ledges to
say this is too much, this istoo difficult.
How could we possibly thinkthat we could change the way
humans work?
(27:56):
And we're still to find out ifwe are going to do that.
We know for thousands, we havealready.
But this is a journey that is along one because it is about
changing behaviours.
So I think when you'reembarking on a business, you do
need to think about the longgame, and it's difficult to be
(28:16):
able to forecast that, but Ithink the more you can speak
with other business owners,particularly ones that have
created a unique businessproposition that perhaps doesn't
exist.
How do they go about buildingand having the stamina to keep
going?
And the reality is it's messy,it's scrappy, it's hard.
(28:40):
There's times when you don'twant to get out of bed because
you've got so much on your to-dolist and you just think where
do I start?
I'm just going to stay here inthe comfort of my bed, watch
Netflix and just avoid it all.
But you get through those daysbecause you someone will say
something, or you'll seesomething, or you'll hear about
something that's happened to aperson or somebody that you know
(29:02):
has known, someone that'spassed away suddenly and they
don't know what to do, and youhear those things and it just
reignites that drive to keepgoing.
But you do need people aroundyou to help you and support you
through that, and I think andthe premise around Serena the
Quiet Warrior is that reluctanceto seek help and the desire to
(29:29):
think.
If this, this is to be, it's upto me.
That doesn't mean that you haveto do it alone.
You can still have peoplearound you that can support your
mission and your goal, andthat's critically important when
you're embarking on somethingthat maybe no one has paved the
path before you.
So, yeah, we certainly have hadmany of those challenging times,
(29:51):
but it's been incrediblyrewarding to get to the end
point and to hear from peoplethat are using Wishkeeper and
how it is.
It was hard for them to useWishkeeper but now they very
quickly have become accustomedto creating what we call the
Wishkeeper habit, which is whensomething wonderful happens in
their life and they'll record avideo and it's a really special
(30:14):
one, not just one we'd keep inour phone.
They can upload it straightinto their wishkeeper because
they know it's a defining momentor a memorable moment they want
to treasure and create thatkeepsake for their family.
So, whether that's, you know,bob's first birthday or great
grandmother's 100th birthday,whatever it might be, they're
important moments to capture andreflect and more and more we're
(30:35):
living in our phones and ourphones are not going to see us
through.
It's the people around us thatare, and the phone's not going
to pass on those memories.
But Wishkeeper can do that foryou.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
You're giving me goosebumps, Cheryl, when you
talked about those special corememories that you can upload
into Wishkeeper straight awayand your family can be comforted
and laugh again and, you know,feel some of that magic again
when they watch those videos,and I think that is a beautiful
way to wrap up this discussion.
(31:08):
That death is always coming forus.
It is something that we canplan for to some extent.
That it's about declutteringlife at min.
It is about making thingseasier for loved ones.
It is also taking back ourpower to communicate and share
the things that are important tous, that we want to pass on as
(31:29):
a legacy to our loved ones and away for us, I guess, to leave
our imprint in the mostwholesome, most beautiful, most
organized way possible usingsoftware.
So what is the next iterationfor Wishkeeper?
What's next that you're workingon?
Speaker 2 (31:46):
Well, we do already have our next iteration, which
is Wishkeeper Connect, whichworks with professional services
that are working with theirclients on these themes, and
it's a beautiful serviceextension for people like wills
and estate lawyers, familylawyers, financial advisors and
people that are really wantingto give much more than facts and
(32:11):
figures and numbers and toreally provide a whole solution
to their clients.
But some of the other thingsthat we are looking at and
working towards in the future.
Obviously, ai is something thatalmost everybody is talking
about at the moment and we'renot in a rush for that, but we
do understand how AI can reallyassist people with understanding
(32:34):
what's available to them.
So eventually, we'd like to getto the phase where Wishkeeper
is a platform where you can putin what your interests are, what
you like, what your dislikesare, and it will curate some
suggestions for you around whatyou might want to consider, and
that could be a very powerfulway to bring all of that
information that is already outthere and somewhat accessible,
(32:57):
but when you're thinking aboutit for yourself can be quite
difficult.
So there is some of those typesof advances that we're looking
at at the moment that are on theroadmap, but we want to make
sure that they're done reallywell.
At the moment, I thinkeveryone's very much in love
with ChatGPT and we can spot ita mile away sometimes and I
think people.
(33:17):
It's a shiny new toy thateveryone loves using, which is
quite fun.
But when we're thinking aboutAI, it's much deeper than that
and it's much more about a toolto assist and support rather
than to replace your thinking oryour actions, and so that's
where we want to do that really,really well, and so we're
excited about what that canbring to people through
Wishkeeper.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
How can people connect with you and find out
more about Wishkeeper?
Speaker 2 (33:43):
Well, the easiest way , sorina, is through our website
, which is easy to remember.
It's wishkeepercomau, andthere's a lot of information on
there and videos aboutWishkeeper, so people can
certainly watch those videos.
They can connect directly to usmyself and David, my business
partner, who together we builtthis, both from different and
(34:06):
varied lived experiences, so youcan contact both of us through
the website as well, and we lovetalking to people that are
interested and we're very muchin the business.
We have other people thatsupport us, but we feel that the
only way we're going to createWishkeeper as a household name
is to be right there with ourcustomers, and so the more we
(34:26):
can talk to you, even if you'rejust mildly interested, we would
love to discuss your journeyand where you're at in your
stage of life and how Wishkeepercan perhaps help you.
And I think the most importantand most telling thing with
Wishkeeper is and the message Iguess we want people to
understand, because it is adifficult theme to think about
(34:47):
is there's something incrediblypowerful about simply
acknowledging that our time onthe planet is limited and once
we do have that shift, the lifethat we will live is so much
more empowered and we will takeless things for granted and it
(35:08):
will inadvertently bring moremeaning into every day for you
and you will ultimately spendmore of your energy and more of
your time on the things you love, with the people you love, and
if we can do that and have thatshift for people, then I feel
like we've done our job.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
Cheryl, thank you so much for coming on the Quiet
Warrior podcast today to sharewith us about Wishkeeper
software and how every one of uscan access that, and if you're
listening to this episode, docheck out the show notes as well
, for all the links to Cheryl'ssocials as well as the
Wishkeeper website.
Have a look at it and have athink also about how it's going
(35:48):
to affect not only you yourself,but also your loved ones.
It's perhaps a good time topause from our busy schedule to
think about life and death,about ultimate issues, about
what happens outside ofourselves, about the things that
are bigger than ourselves, thatwe are just a tiny part of.
So thank you so much, cheryl,for inspiring this conversation
(36:09):
today, and if you've enjoyedthis episode, remember to take
30 seconds to rate and review iton your favorite listening
platform.
Thank you, and see you on thenext episode of the Quiet
Warrior podcast.
I'm so grateful that you're heretoday.
If you found this contentvaluable, please share it on
your social media channels andsubscribe to the show on your
(36:31):
favorite listening platform.
Together, we can help moreintroverts thrive.
To receive more upliftingcontent like this, connect with
me on Instagram at Serena LoQuiet Warrior Coach, thank you
for sharing your time and yourenergy with me.
See you on the next episode.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Ridiculous History
History is beautiful, brutal and, often, ridiculous. Join Ben Bowlin and Noel Brown as they dive into some of the weirdest stories from across the span of human civilization in Ridiculous History, a podcast by iHeartRadio.