July 27, 2025 • 32 mins
What if choosing a career didn’t have to feel overwhelming?
What if quiet achievers, deep thinkers, and introverted students had tools designed just for them?
In this insightful episode of The Quiet Warrior Podcast, I’m joined by Lucy Sattler, a former teacher turned career practitioner and founder of Study Work Grow. Lucy has made it her mission to demystify the career decision process for young people, especially those who feel unseen or uncertain about the future.
With her calm, thoughtful approach, Lucy offers practical strategies for navigating the world of work and education as a student, jobseeker, or lifelong learner—especially if you're an introvert or someone who prefers clarity and structure over loud enthusiasm.
We explore the emotional pressure many students and parents face, how to ask better questions about what you want, and why having “one dream job” may be the wrong goal.
In this episode, we discuss:
- The hidden challenges introverts face when planning their careers
- Why quiet achievers often struggle to feel “ready enough” to choose a path
- How to create space for self-discovery without rushing the process
- Tools and frameworks for students and jobseekers to explore meaningful options
- The role of lifelong learning in today’s changing career landscape
- Why Lucy believes we should stop asking “What do you want to be?” and start asking “What problems do you want to help solve?”
- Encouragement for introverted young people to find a voice in career conversations
Whether you're a student standing at a career crossroads, a jobseeker reinventing yourself, or an introverted professional supporting the next generation, this conversation is packed with reassurance, strategy, and inspiration.
Connect with Lucy Sattler:
Website: https://studyworkgrow.com.au
LinkedIn: Lucy Sattler
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This episode was edited by Aura House Productions
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, I'm Serena Loh.
If you're used to hearing thatintroverts are shy, anxious,
antisocial and lack goodcommunication and leadership
skills, then this podcast is foryou.
You're about to fall in lovewith the calm, introspective and
profound person that you are.
Discover what's fun, unique andpowerful about being an
(00:21):
introvert, and how to make theelegant transition from quiet
achiever to quiet warrior inyour life and work anytime you
want, in more ways than youimagined possible.
Welcome, welcome to the QuietWarrior podcast.
Our guest today is the founderof Study Work Grow and the
(00:43):
creator of the Caddy Clusters.
She helps young people makesense of careers and futures in
a way that actually makes senseLucy Sattler.
Welcome to the Quiet Warriorpodcast.
Thank you so much for having me,Serena.
It's so good to have you here.
Could you tell us about yourbackground, Lucy, and how you
came to be doing what you now do?
Speaker 2 (01:05):
I think, like most people, I have a bit of an
interesting background.
So I left school and joined themilitary.
That's where I did myuniversity first university.
Then I worked as an air trafficcontroller for a while, had
three children, raised them, didsome other bits and pieces,
(01:25):
worked as an artist andeventually I started helping my
dad, who was a careers advisor,with his business and I got
hooked and really enjoyed thework.
Really enjoyed helping youngpeople think about what
opportunities are out there andI found that just such an
inspiring field to be involvedin.
That that's where I've stayedand it's now about 15 years
(01:47):
later and I'm still here.
Love that.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
So what does study work grow to and what makes it
unique?
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Yeah, so we really focus on supporting the people
who support young people.
So we know that careersadvisors, educators, counsellors
, people who are doing that workwith young people so we know
that careers advisors, educators, counsellors, people who are
doing that work with youngpeople are usually very, very
busy, and so Study Work Growprovides those people with lots
of resources, tools, things likenewsletters, anything that we
(02:17):
can provide that will make theirlives a little bit easier.
Give them all of theinformation that they need in
the one place so then they canhave better conversations with
young people without having totry and stay on top of all of
that by themselves, because itis.
It is a pretty big job, uh, andwe've been doing this for a
while and we really enjoy thecommunity that we're part of
(02:38):
with study work grow.
We're a social enterprise andso we're for purpose, and we've
just found that it's such a,like I said, an inspiring place
to be, and that there's alwaysmore opportunity, always more
things for us to do and moreways we can help.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
So you are supporting the people that support the
young people.
And how do you help youngpeople themselves make sense of
career choices at a time whenthe world of work has changed so
much and continues to move at adizzying pace?
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Yeah, it is moving pretty fast.
I mean, the world of work isalways changing and it always
has changed, but I feel likelately there's been quite a
rapid shift in how we do thingsand also a lot more talk about
that in the media, and youngpeople pick up on that.
They pick up on thoseconversations and what's being
said.
Whether or not it's true, itdoesn't seem to matter if the
media says it enough.
(03:27):
You know there's a cost ofliving crisis, all these things
the young people pick up on that.
How we support them is we jointhe dots.
So it's one thing to give youngpeople a piece of information.
It's another thing entirely toexpect them to be able to
interpret that information,apply it to their own context
and their own situation.
That's quite a tricky thing todo, particularly for young
(03:49):
people who maybe don't have anytraining in career development
or career management.
They're just learning about somany other things themselves.
They're starting to realizethat they're going to have to be
adults soon and they're goingto have to take on all these
things.
So what we do is we join thedots for them and we say, okay,
this is a piece of information.
Here's what you might do withthat piece of information or
(04:09):
this opportunity.
Here's how you can takeadvantage of that.
Prepare for it so that theyfeel then confident to take
those next steps and do whateverit is they need to do next.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
So it sounds to me like what you're doing is being
a bridge for them, helping themmake sense and you said connect
the dots, because they arepresented with so much
information every day and thento be able to apply some of that
critical thinking which may nothave fully formed at a young
age.
I think our prefrontal cortexdoesn't develop till 25, right,
(04:41):
so it can be very challengingfor them to have to make big
decisions at the age of 16 or 18.
Even so, what you do isimmensely valuable.
So tell us about caddy clusters.
What are these?
What do they do?
Speaker 2 (04:56):
So we developed the caddy career clusters out of
this work that we've been doingwith young people, because I
found that, no matter what wedid this work that we've been
doing with young people, becauseI found that, no matter what we
did, talking about jobs wasvery restrictive.
The words that we use todescribe jobs, occupations and
(05:17):
industries.
Those classification systemswere developed usually quite a
long time ago and for thepurposes of taxation and
statistics.
They weren't developed forcareer development.
So we're taking somethingthat's been developed for quite
a different purpose and thentrying to use that with young
people.
And the language isn't, it'sjust not constructed in a way
that will allow them to thinkwithout creating stereotypes,
(05:37):
without bringing theirassumptions about what they know
about these jobs.
So we were looking for anotherway to classify or another
taxonomy of occupations, and wecouldn't find one that we were
happy with, so we made our own.
That's how we ended up with thesix caddy career clusters, and
what they do is they take thisreally holistic approach to how
(05:58):
we work.
So it's not just what skills doyou have or not just what tasks
do you do, where do you workFor, for example.
It's all of those thingscombined and we've bundled them
into these six differentclusters and we haven't said to
people you have to be in onecluster, because we know people
are diverse, they're exciting,they're dynamic, they do more
than one thing in a day.
(06:18):
So we've said to people whichones of these clusters resonate
most with you, which ones don'tresonate with you.
Let's stay a little bit awayfrom those ones and then let's
use that information to help usnavigate a path to something
that we actually enjoy and thatwill help us.
It's giving us language we canuse throughout our career.
(06:38):
So it's not just you know, do Iwant to be an electrician or an
accountant in that moment?
Or what uni course do I want todo?
It's more.
Do I want to be more of aguardian or more of a linker?
And then they can think a bitwider about the opportunities
that are in front of them.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
And how early in their school life do they get
exposed to these caddy clusters?
Is it in high school onwards,or do you even work with primary
school-age children?
Speaker 2 (07:04):
Yeah, so we don't ask .
So I mean by about the age of 11, they're starting to
crystallise their vocationalidentity, so in other words,
they're trying to make somedecisions about the kinds of
person that they want to be fortheir lives.
That doesn't happen until prettymuch the end of primary school,
so we don't ask them to thinkabout which clusters they might
(07:24):
be in until they're in secondaryschool.
They're not really ready forthat in primary.
What we do say in primaryschool is hey, there are these
six different ways of working.
Why don't you try them out?
Why don't you have a go atbeing a coordinator for the day
and see if you enjoy it, seewhich tasks you do and you don't
like?
Then the next day they mightcome along and take the role of
(07:46):
a guardian or take the role of alinker, and it's giving them
that opportunity to, over time,as they're building that
identity for themselves, startto use these clusters to tell
them things about themselves andstart to build a better picture
of who they could be, withoutthinking oh, I'm someone who
likes to play with trucks allday long, and so that means that
(08:06):
I'm going to be a truck driver.
They can start thinking a bitwider.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
Oh, that is so helpful, Just planting that seed
there of future possibilities.
So do you see in your workingwith young people that their
early interests affect theircareer choices?
How much of this is true?
Speaker 2 (08:29):
uh, I, I mean I personally I think that career
development starts the.
Our eventual career originatesat birth.
Um, which is, I know, quite acontroversial thing to say, but
it's obvious even in the way.
They've done some studies andthey've looked at things like
how mothers respond to theirbrand-new babies and how long it
(08:50):
will take them to pick up acrying baby, for example, and
they will respond to a girl babyquicker than they'll respond to
a boy baby.
They will, you know, if ababy's rolled over, they'll
respond quicker if it's a girland they'll let the boy struggle
for a little bit longer.
The toys that they're givingtheir toddlers, you know boys
are given movement, they'regiving things to build, girls
(09:10):
are given dolls and tea sets andwe still do these things Like,
even though we know that it isreally really early on building
these stereotypes with our youngpeople, we still do them.
You know I have children and Ibought.
You know I bought my littlegirl a doll Like them.
You know I have children and Ibought.
You know I bought my littlegirl a doll like.
You know, it's just sort of soingrained in our culture that we
do these things and we don'tsee how that then impacts on the
(09:32):
choices that they make down thetrack.
But it does, because we knowthat throughout primary school,
girls start to remove themselvesmore from sport.
They don't, maybe don't playsoccer on the the field, and
then later on in high schoolthey're still not doing the more
active things they're nottaking the more active they're
not picking up the trades, forexample, when they're offered to
them in subject selection, andall of that then manifests down
(09:55):
the track in that there's alimited range of careers they
feel that they can do.
So I know it's a weird thing tosay, but I think it happens at
birth.
But I do think that we start todictate what our children are
going to do from that reallyearly age, and so we have to be
aware of everything that we doand the potential implications
of those things.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
I think what you just said there, lucy, is so
important for our listeners whoare parents or plan to be
parents to pay attention to, notso that we can condemn
ourselves for choices we've made, but rather simply to be more
conscious and more aware,because a lot of what we do as
parents, we are simply mirroringwhat we have grown up with,
what we are used to seeing, whatwe see our peers doing or our
(10:39):
elders doing, so that's thefamiliar and the comfortable, so
we think that's the only way todo it.
But you're saying, let's payattention, because we are
actually planting seeds, aren'twe?
And in a sense, we areunconsciously limiting their
options, because we're steeringthem in a direction that we
think is the default one or theacceptable one, the one that
(11:02):
socially, nobody's going to sayanything if they choose that
kind of path.
But if they were to dosomething very different from
the norm, it makes usuncomfortable and we worry that
they might get judged or theymight not get accepted or
something.
There'll become some kind ofpushback for them, and so we try
to steer them towards safety,and so what you said there is
(11:24):
really worth pondering on.
What do you see as thedisconnect between educational
institutions and the industries?
Speaker 2 (11:39):
So our educational systems I mean like anything
they've been around for a while,and anything that's been around
for a while tends to becomemore of a silo.
So they start to it's a bit ofan echo chamber People within
education are talking to otherpeople in education and there's
this bit of a divide betweeneducation and then employers and
industry and sometimes we seethem get brought together and
(12:02):
that's always great when thatdoes happen.
But a lot of the time educatorsare so busy trying to ensure
our NAPLAN scores are improvedand our testing, our assessment
testing, is going well andthey're not really thinking
anymore necessarily about whatthat assessment means for a
young person when they leaveschool.
(12:22):
So is it actually preparingthem with the skills they for a
young person when they leaveschool?
So is it actually preparingthem with the skills they're
going to need when they head toan employer?
Or is it just going to improvethe NAPLAN scores for the school
and that kind of there's acompeting priority.
So because of the way we've setup these systems and over time
they've developed in a way whereeducation is designed to do
(12:43):
things that aren't just prepareyoung people for the world of
work.
It's designed to do a wholerange of things, and sometimes
the skills they need to actuallymove into the world of work
aren't the priority at allwithin education.
And then employers don'tunderstand that.
Employers just say, well,you've sent me young people who
can't turn up on time or don'tfeel comfortable with a whole
(13:04):
day of work or they might nothave the communication skills
that an employer is looking for.
That doesn't mean theemployer's right either.
The employer, you know, we knowemployers expect an awful lot
and they, you know, will saythey can't find people to do
their roles, but then they'reoften not willing to provide
training or to bring up peopleas well.
(13:25):
So it's not, there's one sidewho needs to change here.
I think that we need to bringeveryone to the table and go
well, what do we want for ouryouth?
Every year we're going to haveanother crop of young people who
leave school and enteradulthood, and we want them to
succeed.
So what is it that we need todo as a community?
To come together to ensure thatour young people have
(13:46):
opportunities, because that'sfor everyone's benefit.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
I like this holistic approach that you are talking
about, bringing everyone to thetable and asking and putting the
well-being the future at thecentre.
So how do we ensure that youngpeople are adequately trained to
prepare themselves for thisworld of work so that employers
(14:12):
can find the right people towork in their businesses and the
businesses can grow, theeconomy can grow, people can
have jobs and safety and shelterand all those good things?
But at the same time, you alsomentioned that all these
institutions, they exist intheir own silo, so they have
their own set of interests,their own KPIs.
(14:33):
How do we bring them closer?
What would make them want tohave that conversation with each
other?
What would make them come tothe table?
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Oh, that's a really good question and I don't know
that I have the answer to it.
I think if I did have theanswer, if anybody had the
answer, we'd probably be a bitcloser to solving it.
I was reading a paper just thismorning from the Philippines
and they were talking about how,because of the way the
education system has been set up, everyone is encouraged to go
onto tertiary education, ontouniversity.
(15:03):
They have too many collegegrads, so there simply aren't
enough jobs in the labour marketfor all of these college
graduates and they don't haveenough people to do other roles,
vocational roles.
So there's been this mismatchthere and it's causing these
quite large issues.
People are leaving universitywith debt that they don't
necessarily need and they can'tfind employment.
(15:25):
So it is to everyone's benefitthat we come to the table and
work this out, but at the sametime, I don't know, as though
there's an easy solution.
Often, you'll see, thegovernment will say we need to
bring everyone together andthat's great, but then they'll
provide incentives, maybe forapprenticeships or traineeships.
But I do think that it'sprobably going to take a larger
(15:46):
conversation and more peoplesaying no.
No.
This is for the benefit of allof us that we have a thriving
youth.
We have thriving young peoplein our society.
What do we need to do to makethat happen?
And it will take systemicchange and and a wider viewpoint
, rather than just let's fundsome more apprenticeships, I
think.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
Yes, I think that one sounds more like a quick fix
that on paper, may look good,but we're thinking of
sustainability, we're thinkingof future cohorts of young
people, we're thinking of aneconomy that's going to keep
changing and, with AI being atthe front of all this, how is
this impacting jobs and youngpeople's career choices and
(16:27):
their optimism for the future?
Speaker 2 (16:30):
We see new technology come along every few years
within the world of work, andright now we're dealing with AI.
Lots of people will say theyfeel like AI is different, and I
would agree.
I think that this AI, thechanges that AI is bringing to
the workforce, are very rapidand they're very different to
(16:53):
what we've seen in the past,which makes sense because the
speed of things is changing isgoing faster all the time, and
we do need to be aware of thatand talking about it with young
people.
You hear a lot of these peoplesaying oh, we're not going to
need humans anymore because AIis going to be able to do all
the jobs.
And I think well, you knowwe've said those same words
(17:15):
throughout.
You know the last fourcenturies since we've been
building machines oh, we'regoing to build this machine or
we're going to build this systemand we won't need humans
anymore.
I was reading an article theother day that was talking about
when everyone has a computer.
We'll all be able to sit in ourarmchairs or by the beach all
day long and the computers willdo all of the work for us.
So I don't think that we'regoing to suddenly see a world in
(17:38):
which we don't have theopportunity to work anymore, a
world in which we don't have toor don't, you know, don't have
the opportunity to work anymore.
What I do think is that AI willactually create probably
different roles and more roles,and that's what we've seen with
any technological advancement isit does tend to create more
opportunity than it takes away,and the opportunities that it
takes away are usually therepetitive things.
(17:59):
Nobody likes data entry.
You know.
There are some pretty simpletasks that AI can handle for us
that I'm quite glad to see theback of.
What AI does allow us to do,then, is to do more critical
thinking, more innovation, morecreativity.
What else can I do now that Idon't have to spend hours and
hours and hours on theseautomated, you know, repetitive
(18:21):
tasks?
There are companies out therewho are using AI to sequence DNA
, and that is a task that usedto be undertaken in three years
or four years by a PhD studentto do on strand.
They can now do it in minutes,and that that means that then
that PhD student, instead ofspending three or four years of
their lives just doing this onetask, can then think about what
(18:41):
else is possible.
They've got all of this extratime that they didn't have
before.
So I don't think that AI willcompletely, you know destroy
jobs.
That being said, we are seeing alot of companies, particularly
in the tech space, laying offstaff as they're looking to
automate things, and I don'tthink that means that we're not
(19:02):
going to need people in IT.
We need more people than everin IT.
The, you know, future SkillsOrganisation in Australia is
saying we need 60,000 extra ITworkers.
So it just is maybe going torequire a rethink for young
people in terms of, okay, well,that was a job that five years
ago, I thought I might be ableto do.
I can still go do somethingsimilar, but it just might be
(19:28):
the more advanced version, or aslightly different version, or a
more people-focused version, orsomething, rather than a
complete rethink.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
And I think not every young person will have the
capacity to think along thoselines, I think even just the you
know, early on in thisconversation we talked about how
they have so many other thingsto think about, you know, to
worry about, to adjust to ingoing through adolescence and,
you know, making this transitioninto adulthood.
So already they are facing,let's say, mental, emotional
(19:59):
challenges, physiologicalchanges, you know, changes in
their relationships, whichaffects their mental state as
well and their sense ofstability.
And then we add you know thisone more thing that everything
their parents and their teachersare telling them could be
completely wrong tomorrow by thetime they step out into the
workforce, right by the timethey finish year 12 or
(20:20):
university.
So that means they have to betaking self-responsibility as
well, to be on the lookout, tobe proactive in taking charge of
their own career, but at thesame time, with support from
career professionals likeyourself, guiding them and
helping them make those informedchoices.
It's actually a lot for youngpeople to work out.
So what's the best thing theycan do in these current times to
(20:45):
equip themselves adequately,knowing that things can change
so fast that their degree couldbe obsolete by the time they've
graduated?
Speaker 2 (20:53):
I think that the adults in the room have a role
to play in this.
Sometimes, when I'm speakingwith young people lately, there
is that sense of despondency andalmost like a feeling like, oh
well, what's the point?
You know, if AI is going totake my job anyway, what's the
point?
Are there going to be any jobs?
I have had conversationsrecently with young people where
they've said that to me theywere interested in hardware
(21:16):
development, so buildingrobotics and amazing machines.
I don't really understand thatsort of thing.
And they were in a room full ofthese machines telling me, well
, there's not going to be a jobfor me because AI is going to be
able to do it.
And I think that requires adultsin the room to have a bit of
calm and to not, you know, stokethe flames of that fear and
tell them oh yes, ai is going totake your jobs and you know,
(21:42):
here's the jobs you definitelyshouldn't start into because of
AI is going to take them all andjust go.
Well, you know we're stillgoing to have people around,
we're still going to need things.
And you know AI isn't capableof building hardware, it isn't
capable of developing the ideasbehind it.
Maybe we can create factoriesthat have done it once,
somebody's created a prototype,but we're still going to need
those people in the system.
So, you know, that's where theadults in the room need to be
(22:05):
calm and measured and reassurethose young people that even if
the you know, the plan that theyhad had looks like maybe that's
not going to be, you know,required in the same way in the
future, there will be otheropportunities and that together
we have to help them find orthink about those things and
remain open to them.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
That calls for a kind of mental agility to keep up
with your daily life and itsrequirements and at the same
time looking ahead into thefuture and projecting or
predicting what could or couldnot happen, and then again
making those pivots as you go.
So, basically, there is noclear-cut path, there is no
linear path, there is noprogress map or, you know,
(22:50):
journey that they can plan withany certainty, because things
can change so fast now.
So it's also staying ahead ofthe technology curve.
It's keeping themselvesinformed, knowing the broader
trends, knowing what's happeningaround them, scanning the
environment, but at the sametime staying hopeful and looking
for those opportunities.
It sounds to me like that'swhat you're saying.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
Yeah, and it's very difficult because there are lots
of young people who are capableof all of those things, but
there are also lots of youngpeople who might struggle with
those things.
They might come from adifferent background, they might
not have the same skills orskill development, they might
not have had access to the samesort of education.
(23:34):
And there is that risk that youknow, without a system which
you know goes out of its way toprovide opportunities for every
young person and ensure thatevery young person who wants to
work can do that, that thoseyoung people will be left behind
if they can't keep up.
You know that's where theeducation system needs to step
(23:57):
up and they are doing a greatjob of that teaching all young
people critical thinking andinnovation and communication.
That is a focus and you knowthere are not-for-profits out
there and there are industrybodies out there who are
providing, going out of theirway to provide entry
opportunities for people whodon't have university degrees
(24:18):
and, you know, maybe have beenmore disadvantaged in life.
But we do need to be aware ofthat because, as you said, you
know we can no longer expect toleave school, walk into a job
and stay in that job, be paidwell and securely for 50 years
and then retire Like thatdoesn't exist.
I don't know if it ever existedfor more than a few.
You know, that's sort of therosy picture that we have of the
(24:42):
past, of the 1960s, but I don'tknow if that actually was as
widespread as we sort of imagineit to be.
But it won't be the way of thefuture.
We will all need to take moreresponsibility for our careers
and to navigate and control themthroughout our lives.
And you know, part of that work, the work that I do, is, you
(25:03):
know, trying to help youngpeople to develop the skills so
that they can proactively managetheir own careers, rather than
waiting for someone to come andgive them a job or come on, you
know, to provide thoseopportunities for them.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
Yes, so it's again a whole of community approach.
So each person has to takeresponsibility for themselves in
managing their own career pathand ideally, their parents, the
authority figures, the family isable to support them with
access to resources, with goodadvice, with perhaps connecting
(25:39):
them or mentoring them in someway.
And then the educators willalso need to stay on top of all
the changes that are happening,while also meeting their own
organizational targets andmilestones.
And then there's industry'srole in making it possible for
young people to receive thetraining that they need that
(26:01):
enables them to seamlessly enterthe workforce and stay there.
So that's a lot ofcollaboration that's required
across the community, and, ofcourse, we need support from the
government too.
So, speaking specifically tothe listeners, who are quiet
achievers and introverts, whatare some strategies for how to
navigate change while goingthrough this time as a young
(26:23):
person?
Speaker 2 (26:25):
That's a really good question.
I think, like I see myself asan introvert, as someone who's a
little bit quieter.
I think that for those of uswho are quieter, we are going to
need to learn to some extent tofind our voice within our
professional spaces withoutlosing that I don't know, I
(26:48):
can't think of another word thequietness that makes us who we
are.
So I like being a quiet person.
I'm okay with being a quietperson and that's quite an
important part of how I seemyself is that I'm not someone
who wants to have a lot ofattention.
When I'm in a space, I don'tneed to be the loudest voice in
the room, but I have had tolearn over time to be able to
(27:09):
speak up for what I believe inand to make sure that, just
because I'm quiet, that doesn'tmean that I'm ignored, and that
maybe is something that peoplewho do see themselves as more
introverted are going to need totake on board.
I sometimes say that I have twopersonalities, two personas.
So I have the normal Lucy, whois quite quiet and reserved, but
(27:34):
then I've developed the abilityto, when I'm in a professional
space, sometimes speak out, be alittle bit more confident, put
my voice forward a bit morefrequently, and it's my husband
calls it customer service Lucy,that's the term he uses and that
allows me, by giving myselfpermission to have that
alternate persona and yet notmaking that change who I am that
(27:59):
allows me to take on the rolesthat I need to take on in those
professional spaces, do thethings that I need to do,
because I think that the workthat I'm doing is important, and
if I believe in the work thatI'm doing, so I need to speak up
for that work.
And if I don't, then that's nota good thing if I choose not to
do that because I find myselfto be quite quiet.
(28:21):
So it is a battle, and it's onethat's ongoing, but I think
it's worth putting theinvestment in the time and the
energy to try and do thatyourself.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
I love that contrast between regular Lucy and
customer service Lucy, and Ithink we all need, those of us
who are quiet, that alternatepersona that still feels real
for us.
It's just a slightly moreamplified version and I like how
you tied it into your purposeas well, and you said that if
you don't do that, if you don'tspeak up for the things you
(28:51):
believe in, that's not goodbecause it affects other people.
Somebody else could getdeprived of an opportunity or a
new way of thinking or a pathwaybecause you didn't get to share
your voice.
So you said speaking up morefrequently, you said allowing
your voice to be heard, and Iguess that also means projecting
(29:13):
outwards that inner convictionthat all quiet achievers have,
that we know that what we aredoing is meaningful, it has its
purpose and we don't want to letour quiet nature stand in the
way of that because somethingbigger is at stake.
So when it's tied to purpose,I've noticed that a lot of
introverts and quiet achieverssuddenly lose that hesitation.
(29:34):
It's when it's tied to a goodcause.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
It makes sense, right , because we're talking about
something that we're passionateabout.
I don't feel like, as a quietachiever, I don't feel like we
need to become like anextroverted person.
I think that there isdefinitely space for our voices
to be heard still in our ownways.
I think that there isdefinitely space for our voices
to be heard still in our ownways when I speak.
I'm still not someone who'sreally loud on the stage and,
(30:03):
you know, super into it.
I still am quite quiet andreserved in how I speak and
people accept that.
People know, you know, and insome respects I find that people
are willing to listen morebecause I'm not trying to impose
myself upon them.
I'm just speaking about what Icare about, and that's something
(30:26):
that, as a quiet achiever, wecan have.
We can, we, you know we can.
When we do speak, we peoplelisten to us because they know
that whatever we have to say isimportant.
Speaker 1 (30:36):
Yes, and that is one of the superpowers of being the
quiet achiever, and I love howyou have articulated so
beautifully that ability to flexbetween the two states.
So most of the time, we may bethe quiet achiever, deep
thinking, introspective andmaybe solitary with our thoughts
, but then, when the right timecomes, when there is a challenge
(30:59):
that we need to rise up to, wecan become the quiet warrior.
We can speak up, we can let ourvoice be heard, we can share
passionately and with convictionabout the things that we care
about and that are importantbecause they affect other people
too.
So that is a beautiful way tofinish off, and my final
question to you, lucy, is what'sthe best way for people to
connect with you and engage theservices of Study Work Rule.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
Sure, so I'm on LinkedIn.
You can find me at Lucy justsearch for Lucy Sattler and I'll
probably come up.
I have a newsletter that Ipublish every couple of weeks
and I find that that's been areally nice space for me.
I like writing because I don'thave to speak, so that's a
really nice thing that you cando if you'd like to subscribe to
the newsletter and if you'reinterested in the work we do at
(31:45):
Study Work Grow just GoogleStudy Work Grow because we'll
come up and you can read aboutour programs and our resources
and maybe subscribe to ournewsletter and see if there's
anything there that you mightlike to use for yourself
Fantastic.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
Thank you so much, lucy Sattler, for sharing your
wisdom with us today.
Thank you for having me.
If you've enjoyed thisconversation and want more
content like this, make sure toleave a five-star rating and
review so the Quiet Warriorpodcast can reach more
introverts around the world.
See you on the next episode.
I'm so grateful that you'rehere today.
(32:18):
If you found this contentvaluable, please share it on
your social media channels andsubscribe to the show on your
favorite listening platform.
Together, we can help moreintroverts thrive.
To receive more upliftingcontent like this, connect with
me on Instagram at Serena LoQuiet Warrior Coach.
Thank you for sharing your timeand your energy with me.
(32:39):
See you on the next episode.
Hi, I'm Serena Loh.
If you're used to hearing thatintroverts are shy, anxious,
antisocial and lack goodcommunication and leadership
skills, then this podcast is foryou.
You're about to fall in lovewith the calm, introspective and
profound person that you are.
Discover what's fun, unique andpowerful about being an
(00:21):
introvert, and how to make theelegant transition from quiet
achiever to quiet warrior inyour life and work anytime you
want, in more ways than youimagined possible.
Welcome, welcome to the QuietWarrior podcast.
Our guest today is the founderof Study Work Grow and the
(00:43):
creator of the Caddy Clusters.
She helps young people makesense of careers and futures in
a way that actually makes senseLucy Sattler.
Welcome to the Quiet Warriorpodcast.
Thank you so much for having me,Serena.
It's so good to have you here.
Could you tell us about yourbackground, Lucy, and how you
came to be doing what you now do?
Speaker 2 (01:05):
I think, like most people, I have a bit of an
interesting background.
So I left school and joined themilitary.
That's where I did myuniversity first university.
Then I worked as an air trafficcontroller for a while, had
three children, raised them, didsome other bits and pieces,
(01:25):
worked as an artist andeventually I started helping my
dad, who was a careers advisor,with his business and I got
hooked and really enjoyed thework.
Really enjoyed helping youngpeople think about what
opportunities are out there andI found that just such an
inspiring field to be involvedin.
That that's where I've stayedand it's now about 15 years
(01:47):
later and I'm still here.
Love that.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
So what does study work grow to and what makes it
unique?
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Yeah, so we really focus on supporting the people
who support young people.
So we know that careersadvisors, educators, counsellors
, people who are doing that workwith young people so we know
that careers advisors, educators, counsellors, people who are
doing that work with youngpeople are usually very, very
busy, and so Study Work Growprovides those people with lots
of resources, tools, things likenewsletters, anything that we
(02:17):
can provide that will make theirlives a little bit easier.
Give them all of theinformation that they need in
the one place so then they canhave better conversations with
young people without having totry and stay on top of all of
that by themselves, because itis.
It is a pretty big job, uh, andwe've been doing this for a
while and we really enjoy thecommunity that we're part of
(02:38):
with study work grow.
We're a social enterprise andso we're for purpose, and we've
just found that it's such a,like I said, an inspiring place
to be, and that there's alwaysmore opportunity, always more
things for us to do and moreways we can help.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
So you are supporting the people that support the
young people.
And how do you help youngpeople themselves make sense of
career choices at a time whenthe world of work has changed so
much and continues to move at adizzying pace?
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Yeah, it is moving pretty fast.
I mean, the world of work isalways changing and it always
has changed, but I feel likelately there's been quite a
rapid shift in how we do thingsand also a lot more talk about
that in the media, and youngpeople pick up on that.
They pick up on thoseconversations and what's being
said.
Whether or not it's true, itdoesn't seem to matter if the
media says it enough.
(03:27):
You know there's a cost ofliving crisis, all these things
the young people pick up on that.
How we support them is we jointhe dots.
So it's one thing to give youngpeople a piece of information.
It's another thing entirely toexpect them to be able to
interpret that information,apply it to their own context
and their own situation.
That's quite a tricky thing todo, particularly for young
(03:49):
people who maybe don't have anytraining in career development
or career management.
They're just learning about somany other things themselves.
They're starting to realizethat they're going to have to be
adults soon and they're goingto have to take on all these
things.
So what we do is we join thedots for them and we say, okay,
this is a piece of information.
Here's what you might do withthat piece of information or
(04:09):
this opportunity.
Here's how you can takeadvantage of that.
Prepare for it so that theyfeel then confident to take
those next steps and do whateverit is they need to do next.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
So it sounds to me like what you're doing is being
a bridge for them, helping themmake sense and you said connect
the dots, because they arepresented with so much
information every day and thento be able to apply some of that
critical thinking which may nothave fully formed at a young
age.
I think our prefrontal cortexdoesn't develop till 25, right,
(04:41):
so it can be very challengingfor them to have to make big
decisions at the age of 16 or 18.
Even so, what you do isimmensely valuable.
So tell us about caddy clusters.
What are these?
What do they do?
Speaker 2 (04:56):
So we developed the caddy career clusters out of
this work that we've been doingwith young people, because I
found that, no matter what wedid this work that we've been
doing with young people, becauseI found that, no matter what we
did, talking about jobs wasvery restrictive.
The words that we use todescribe jobs, occupations and
(05:17):
industries.
Those classification systemswere developed usually quite a
long time ago and for thepurposes of taxation and
statistics.
They weren't developed forcareer development.
So we're taking somethingthat's been developed for quite
a different purpose and thentrying to use that with young
people.
And the language isn't, it'sjust not constructed in a way
that will allow them to thinkwithout creating stereotypes,
(05:37):
without bringing theirassumptions about what they know
about these jobs.
So we were looking for anotherway to classify or another
taxonomy of occupations, and wecouldn't find one that we were
happy with, so we made our own.
That's how we ended up with thesix caddy career clusters, and
what they do is they take thisreally holistic approach to how
(05:58):
we work.
So it's not just what skills doyou have or not just what tasks
do you do, where do you workFor, for example.
It's all of those thingscombined and we've bundled them
into these six differentclusters and we haven't said to
people you have to be in onecluster, because we know people
are diverse, they're exciting,they're dynamic, they do more
than one thing in a day.
(06:18):
So we've said to people whichones of these clusters resonate
most with you, which ones don'tresonate with you.
Let's stay a little bit awayfrom those ones and then let's
use that information to help usnavigate a path to something
that we actually enjoy and thatwill help us.
It's giving us language we canuse throughout our career.
(06:38):
So it's not just you know, do Iwant to be an electrician or an
accountant in that moment?
Or what uni course do I want todo?
It's more.
Do I want to be more of aguardian or more of a linker?
And then they can think a bitwider about the opportunities
that are in front of them.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
And how early in their school life do they get
exposed to these caddy clusters?
Is it in high school onwards,or do you even work with primary
school-age children?
Speaker 2 (07:04):
Yeah, so we don't ask .
So I mean by about the age of 11, they're starting to
crystallise their vocationalidentity, so in other words,
they're trying to make somedecisions about the kinds of
person that they want to be fortheir lives.
That doesn't happen until prettymuch the end of primary school,
so we don't ask them to thinkabout which clusters they might
(07:24):
be in until they're in secondaryschool.
They're not really ready forthat in primary.
What we do say in primaryschool is hey, there are these
six different ways of working.
Why don't you try them out?
Why don't you have a go atbeing a coordinator for the day
and see if you enjoy it, seewhich tasks you do and you don't
like?
Then the next day they mightcome along and take the role of
(07:46):
a guardian or take the role of alinker, and it's giving them
that opportunity to, over time,as they're building that
identity for themselves, startto use these clusters to tell
them things about themselves andstart to build a better picture
of who they could be, withoutthinking oh, I'm someone who
likes to play with trucks allday long, and so that means that
(08:06):
I'm going to be a truck driver.
They can start thinking a bitwider.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
Oh, that is so helpful, Just planting that seed
there of future possibilities.
So do you see in your workingwith young people that their
early interests affect theircareer choices?
How much of this is true?
Speaker 2 (08:29):
uh, I, I mean I personally I think that career
development starts the.
Our eventual career originatesat birth.
Um, which is, I know, quite acontroversial thing to say, but
it's obvious even in the way.
They've done some studies andthey've looked at things like
how mothers respond to theirbrand-new babies and how long it
(08:50):
will take them to pick up acrying baby, for example, and
they will respond to a girl babyquicker than they'll respond to
a boy baby.
They will, you know, if ababy's rolled over, they'll
respond quicker if it's a girland they'll let the boy struggle
for a little bit longer.
The toys that they're givingtheir toddlers, you know boys
are given movement, they'regiving things to build, girls
(09:10):
are given dolls and tea sets andwe still do these things Like,
even though we know that it isreally really early on building
these stereotypes with our youngpeople, we still do them.
You know I have children and Ibought.
You know I bought my littlegirl a doll Like them.
You know I have children and Ibought.
You know I bought my littlegirl a doll like.
You know, it's just sort of soingrained in our culture that we
do these things and we don'tsee how that then impacts on the
(09:32):
choices that they make down thetrack.
But it does, because we knowthat throughout primary school,
girls start to remove themselvesmore from sport.
They don't, maybe don't playsoccer on the the field, and
then later on in high schoolthey're still not doing the more
active things they're nottaking the more active they're
not picking up the trades, forexample, when they're offered to
them in subject selection, andall of that then manifests down
(09:55):
the track in that there's alimited range of careers they
feel that they can do.
So I know it's a weird thing tosay, but I think it happens at
birth.
But I do think that we start todictate what our children are
going to do from that reallyearly age, and so we have to be
aware of everything that we doand the potential implications
of those things.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
I think what you just said there, lucy, is so
important for our listeners whoare parents or plan to be
parents to pay attention to, notso that we can condemn
ourselves for choices we've made, but rather simply to be more
conscious and more aware,because a lot of what we do as
parents, we are simply mirroringwhat we have grown up with,
what we are used to seeing, whatwe see our peers doing or our
(10:39):
elders doing, so that's thefamiliar and the comfortable, so
we think that's the only way todo it.
But you're saying, let's payattention, because we are
actually planting seeds, aren'twe?
And in a sense, we areunconsciously limiting their
options, because we're steeringthem in a direction that we
think is the default one or theacceptable one, the one that
(11:02):
socially, nobody's going to sayanything if they choose that
kind of path.
But if they were to dosomething very different from
the norm, it makes usuncomfortable and we worry that
they might get judged or theymight not get accepted or
something.
There'll become some kind ofpushback for them, and so we try
to steer them towards safety,and so what you said there is
(11:24):
really worth pondering on.
What do you see as thedisconnect between educational
institutions and the industries?
Speaker 2 (11:39):
So our educational systems I mean like anything
they've been around for a while,and anything that's been around
for a while tends to becomemore of a silo.
So they start to it's a bit ofan echo chamber People within
education are talking to otherpeople in education and there's
this bit of a divide betweeneducation and then employers and
industry and sometimes we seethem get brought together and
(12:02):
that's always great when thatdoes happen.
But a lot of the time educatorsare so busy trying to ensure
our NAPLAN scores are improvedand our testing, our assessment
testing, is going well andthey're not really thinking
anymore necessarily about whatthat assessment means for a
young person when they leaveschool.
(12:22):
So is it actually preparingthem with the skills they for a
young person when they leaveschool?
So is it actually preparingthem with the skills they're
going to need when they head toan employer?
Or is it just going to improvethe NAPLAN scores for the school
and that kind of there's acompeting priority.
So because of the way we've setup these systems and over time
they've developed in a way whereeducation is designed to do
(12:43):
things that aren't just prepareyoung people for the world of
work.
It's designed to do a wholerange of things, and sometimes
the skills they need to actuallymove into the world of work
aren't the priority at allwithin education.
And then employers don'tunderstand that.
Employers just say, well,you've sent me young people who
can't turn up on time or don'tfeel comfortable with a whole
(13:04):
day of work or they might nothave the communication skills
that an employer is looking for.
That doesn't mean theemployer's right either.
The employer, you know, we knowemployers expect an awful lot
and they, you know, will saythey can't find people to do
their roles, but then they'reoften not willing to provide
training or to bring up peopleas well.
(13:25):
So it's not, there's one sidewho needs to change here.
I think that we need to bringeveryone to the table and go
well, what do we want for ouryouth?
Every year we're going to haveanother crop of young people who
leave school and enteradulthood, and we want them to
succeed.
So what is it that we need todo as a community?
To come together to ensure thatour young people have
(13:46):
opportunities, because that'sfor everyone's benefit.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
I like this holistic approach that you are talking
about, bringing everyone to thetable and asking and putting the
well-being the future at thecentre.
So how do we ensure that youngpeople are adequately trained to
prepare themselves for thisworld of work so that employers
(14:12):
can find the right people towork in their businesses and the
businesses can grow, theeconomy can grow, people can
have jobs and safety and shelterand all those good things?
But at the same time, you alsomentioned that all these
institutions, they exist intheir own silo, so they have
their own set of interests,their own KPIs.
(14:33):
How do we bring them closer?
What would make them want tohave that conversation with each
other?
What would make them come tothe table?
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Oh, that's a really good question and I don't know
that I have the answer to it.
I think if I did have theanswer, if anybody had the
answer, we'd probably be a bitcloser to solving it.
I was reading a paper just thismorning from the Philippines
and they were talking about how,because of the way the
education system has been set up, everyone is encouraged to go
onto tertiary education, ontouniversity.
(15:03):
They have too many collegegrads, so there simply aren't
enough jobs in the labour marketfor all of these college
graduates and they don't haveenough people to do other roles,
vocational roles.
So there's been this mismatchthere and it's causing these
quite large issues.
People are leaving universitywith debt that they don't
necessarily need and they can'tfind employment.
(15:25):
So it is to everyone's benefitthat we come to the table and
work this out, but at the sametime, I don't know, as though
there's an easy solution.
Often, you'll see, thegovernment will say we need to
bring everyone together andthat's great, but then they'll
provide incentives, maybe forapprenticeships or traineeships.
But I do think that it'sprobably going to take a larger
(15:46):
conversation and more peoplesaying no.
No.
This is for the benefit of allof us that we have a thriving
youth.
We have thriving young peoplein our society.
What do we need to do to makethat happen?
And it will take systemicchange and and a wider viewpoint
, rather than just let's fundsome more apprenticeships, I
think.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
Yes, I think that one sounds more like a quick fix
that on paper, may look good,but we're thinking of
sustainability, we're thinkingof future cohorts of young
people, we're thinking of aneconomy that's going to keep
changing and, with AI being atthe front of all this, how is
this impacting jobs and youngpeople's career choices and
(16:27):
their optimism for the future?
Speaker 2 (16:30):
We see new technology come along every few years
within the world of work, andright now we're dealing with AI.
Lots of people will say theyfeel like AI is different, and I
would agree.
I think that this AI, thechanges that AI is bringing to
the workforce, are very rapidand they're very different to
(16:53):
what we've seen in the past,which makes sense because the
speed of things is changing isgoing faster all the time, and
we do need to be aware of thatand talking about it with young
people.
You hear a lot of these peoplesaying oh, we're not going to
need humans anymore because AIis going to be able to do all
the jobs.
And I think well, you knowwe've said those same words
(17:15):
throughout.
You know the last fourcenturies since we've been
building machines oh, we'regoing to build this machine or
we're going to build this systemand we won't need humans
anymore.
I was reading an article theother day that was talking about
when everyone has a computer.
We'll all be able to sit in ourarmchairs or by the beach all
day long and the computers willdo all of the work for us.
So I don't think that we'regoing to suddenly see a world in
(17:38):
which we don't have theopportunity to work anymore, a
world in which we don't have toor don't, you know, don't have
the opportunity to work anymore.
What I do think is that AI willactually create probably
different roles and more roles,and that's what we've seen with
any technological advancement isit does tend to create more
opportunity than it takes away,and the opportunities that it
takes away are usually therepetitive things.
(17:59):
Nobody likes data entry.
You know.
There are some pretty simpletasks that AI can handle for us
that I'm quite glad to see theback of.
What AI does allow us to do,then, is to do more critical
thinking, more innovation, morecreativity.
What else can I do now that Idon't have to spend hours and
hours and hours on theseautomated, you know, repetitive
(18:21):
tasks?
There are companies out therewho are using AI to sequence DNA
, and that is a task that usedto be undertaken in three years
or four years by a PhD studentto do on strand.
They can now do it in minutes,and that that means that then
that PhD student, instead ofspending three or four years of
their lives just doing this onetask, can then think about what
(18:41):
else is possible.
They've got all of this extratime that they didn't have
before.
So I don't think that AI willcompletely, you know destroy
jobs.
That being said, we are seeing alot of companies, particularly
in the tech space, laying offstaff as they're looking to
automate things, and I don'tthink that means that we're not
(19:02):
going to need people in IT.
We need more people than everin IT.
The, you know, future SkillsOrganisation in Australia is
saying we need 60,000 extra ITworkers.
So it just is maybe going torequire a rethink for young
people in terms of, okay, well,that was a job that five years
ago, I thought I might be ableto do.
I can still go do somethingsimilar, but it just might be
(19:28):
the more advanced version, or aslightly different version, or a
more people-focused version, orsomething, rather than a
complete rethink.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
And I think not every young person will have the
capacity to think along thoselines, I think even just the you
know, early on in thisconversation we talked about how
they have so many other thingsto think about, you know, to
worry about, to adjust to ingoing through adolescence and,
you know, making this transitioninto adulthood.
So already they are facing,let's say, mental, emotional
(19:59):
challenges, physiologicalchanges, you know, changes in
their relationships, whichaffects their mental state as
well and their sense ofstability.
And then we add you know thisone more thing that everything
their parents and their teachersare telling them could be
completely wrong tomorrow by thetime they step out into the
workforce, right by the timethey finish year 12 or
(20:20):
university.
So that means they have to betaking self-responsibility as
well, to be on the lookout, tobe proactive in taking charge of
their own career, but at thesame time, with support from
career professionals likeyourself, guiding them and
helping them make those informedchoices.
It's actually a lot for youngpeople to work out.
So what's the best thing theycan do in these current times to
(20:45):
equip themselves adequately,knowing that things can change
so fast that their degree couldbe obsolete by the time they've
graduated?
Speaker 2 (20:53):
I think that the adults in the room have a role
to play in this.
Sometimes, when I'm speakingwith young people lately, there
is that sense of despondency andalmost like a feeling like, oh
well, what's the point?
You know, if AI is going totake my job anyway, what's the
point?
Are there going to be any jobs?
I have had conversationsrecently with young people where
they've said that to me theywere interested in hardware
(21:16):
development, so buildingrobotics and amazing machines.
I don't really understand thatsort of thing.
And they were in a room full ofthese machines telling me, well
, there's not going to be a jobfor me because AI is going to be
able to do it.
And I think that requires adultsin the room to have a bit of
calm and to not, you know, stokethe flames of that fear and
tell them oh yes, ai is going totake your jobs and you know,
(21:42):
here's the jobs you definitelyshouldn't start into because of
AI is going to take them all andjust go.
Well, you know we're stillgoing to have people around,
we're still going to need things.
And you know AI isn't capableof building hardware, it isn't
capable of developing the ideasbehind it.
Maybe we can create factoriesthat have done it once,
somebody's created a prototype,but we're still going to need
those people in the system.
So, you know, that's where theadults in the room need to be
(22:05):
calm and measured and reassurethose young people that even if
the you know, the plan that theyhad had looks like maybe that's
not going to be, you know,required in the same way in the
future, there will be otheropportunities and that together
we have to help them find orthink about those things and
remain open to them.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
That calls for a kind of mental agility to keep up
with your daily life and itsrequirements and at the same
time looking ahead into thefuture and projecting or
predicting what could or couldnot happen, and then again
making those pivots as you go.
So, basically, there is noclear-cut path, there is no
linear path, there is noprogress map or, you know,
(22:50):
journey that they can plan withany certainty, because things
can change so fast now.
So it's also staying ahead ofthe technology curve.
It's keeping themselvesinformed, knowing the broader
trends, knowing what's happeningaround them, scanning the
environment, but at the sametime staying hopeful and looking
for those opportunities.
It sounds to me like that'swhat you're saying.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
Yeah, and it's very difficult because there are lots
of young people who are capableof all of those things, but
there are also lots of youngpeople who might struggle with
those things.
They might come from adifferent background, they might
not have the same skills orskill development, they might
not have had access to the samesort of education.
(23:34):
And there is that risk that youknow, without a system which
you know goes out of its way toprovide opportunities for every
young person and ensure thatevery young person who wants to
work can do that, that thoseyoung people will be left behind
if they can't keep up.
You know that's where theeducation system needs to step
(23:57):
up and they are doing a greatjob of that teaching all young
people critical thinking andinnovation and communication.
That is a focus and you knowthere are not-for-profits out
there and there are industrybodies out there who are
providing, going out of theirway to provide entry
opportunities for people whodon't have university degrees
(24:18):
and, you know, maybe have beenmore disadvantaged in life.
But we do need to be aware ofthat because, as you said, you
know we can no longer expect toleave school, walk into a job
and stay in that job, be paidwell and securely for 50 years
and then retire Like thatdoesn't exist.
I don't know if it ever existedfor more than a few.
You know, that's sort of therosy picture that we have of the
(24:42):
past, of the 1960s, but I don'tknow if that actually was as
widespread as we sort of imagineit to be.
But it won't be the way of thefuture.
We will all need to take moreresponsibility for our careers
and to navigate and control themthroughout our lives.
And you know, part of that work, the work that I do, is, you
(25:03):
know, trying to help youngpeople to develop the skills so
that they can proactively managetheir own careers, rather than
waiting for someone to come andgive them a job or come on, you
know, to provide thoseopportunities for them.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
Yes, so it's again a whole of community approach.
So each person has to takeresponsibility for themselves in
managing their own career pathand ideally, their parents, the
authority figures, the family isable to support them with
access to resources, with goodadvice, with perhaps connecting
(25:39):
them or mentoring them in someway.
And then the educators willalso need to stay on top of all
the changes that are happening,while also meeting their own
organizational targets andmilestones.
And then there's industry'srole in making it possible for
young people to receive thetraining that they need that
(26:01):
enables them to seamlessly enterthe workforce and stay there.
So that's a lot ofcollaboration that's required
across the community, and, ofcourse, we need support from the
government too.
So, speaking specifically tothe listeners, who are quiet
achievers and introverts, whatare some strategies for how to
navigate change while goingthrough this time as a young
(26:23):
person?
Speaker 2 (26:25):
That's a really good question.
I think, like I see myself asan introvert, as someone who's a
little bit quieter.
I think that for those of uswho are quieter, we are going to
need to learn to some extent tofind our voice within our
professional spaces withoutlosing that I don't know, I
(26:48):
can't think of another word thequietness that makes us who we
are.
So I like being a quiet person.
I'm okay with being a quietperson and that's quite an
important part of how I seemyself is that I'm not someone
who wants to have a lot ofattention.
When I'm in a space, I don'tneed to be the loudest voice in
the room, but I have had tolearn over time to be able to
(27:09):
speak up for what I believe inand to make sure that, just
because I'm quiet, that doesn'tmean that I'm ignored, and that
maybe is something that peoplewho do see themselves as more
introverted are going to need totake on board.
I sometimes say that I have twopersonalities, two personas.
So I have the normal Lucy, whois quite quiet and reserved, but
(27:34):
then I've developed the abilityto, when I'm in a professional
space, sometimes speak out, be alittle bit more confident, put
my voice forward a bit morefrequently, and it's my husband
calls it customer service Lucy,that's the term he uses and that
allows me, by giving myselfpermission to have that
alternate persona and yet notmaking that change who I am that
(27:59):
allows me to take on the rolesthat I need to take on in those
professional spaces, do thethings that I need to do,
because I think that the workthat I'm doing is important, and
if I believe in the work thatI'm doing, so I need to speak up
for that work.
And if I don't, then that's nota good thing if I choose not to
do that because I find myselfto be quite quiet.
(28:21):
So it is a battle, and it's onethat's ongoing, but I think
it's worth putting theinvestment in the time and the
energy to try and do thatyourself.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
I love that contrast between regular Lucy and
customer service Lucy, and Ithink we all need, those of us
who are quiet, that alternatepersona that still feels real
for us.
It's just a slightly moreamplified version and I like how
you tied it into your purposeas well, and you said that if
you don't do that, if you don'tspeak up for the things you
(28:51):
believe in, that's not goodbecause it affects other people.
Somebody else could getdeprived of an opportunity or a
new way of thinking or a pathwaybecause you didn't get to share
your voice.
So you said speaking up morefrequently, you said allowing
your voice to be heard, and Iguess that also means projecting
(29:13):
outwards that inner convictionthat all quiet achievers have,
that we know that what we aredoing is meaningful, it has its
purpose and we don't want to letour quiet nature stand in the
way of that because somethingbigger is at stake.
So when it's tied to purpose,I've noticed that a lot of
introverts and quiet achieverssuddenly lose that hesitation.
(29:34):
It's when it's tied to a goodcause.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
It makes sense, right , because we're talking about
something that we're passionateabout.
I don't feel like, as a quietachiever, I don't feel like we
need to become like anextroverted person.
I think that there isdefinitely space for our voices
to be heard still in our ownways.
I think that there isdefinitely space for our voices
to be heard still in our ownways when I speak.
I'm still not someone who'sreally loud on the stage and,
(30:03):
you know, super into it.
I still am quite quiet andreserved in how I speak and
people accept that.
People know, you know, and insome respects I find that people
are willing to listen morebecause I'm not trying to impose
myself upon them.
I'm just speaking about what Icare about, and that's something
(30:26):
that, as a quiet achiever, wecan have.
We can, we, you know we can.
When we do speak, we peoplelisten to us because they know
that whatever we have to say isimportant.
Speaker 1 (30:36):
Yes, and that is one of the superpowers of being the
quiet achiever, and I love howyou have articulated so
beautifully that ability to flexbetween the two states.
So most of the time, we may bethe quiet achiever, deep
thinking, introspective andmaybe solitary with our thoughts
, but then, when the right timecomes, when there is a challenge
(30:59):
that we need to rise up to, wecan become the quiet warrior.
We can speak up, we can let ourvoice be heard, we can share
passionately and with convictionabout the things that we care
about and that are importantbecause they affect other people
too.
So that is a beautiful way tofinish off, and my final
question to you, lucy, is what'sthe best way for people to
connect with you and engage theservices of Study Work Rule.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
Sure, so I'm on LinkedIn.
You can find me at Lucy justsearch for Lucy Sattler and I'll
probably come up.
I have a newsletter that Ipublish every couple of weeks
and I find that that's been areally nice space for me.
I like writing because I don'thave to speak, so that's a
really nice thing that you cando if you'd like to subscribe to
the newsletter and if you'reinterested in the work we do at
(31:45):
Study Work Grow just GoogleStudy Work Grow because we'll
come up and you can read aboutour programs and our resources
and maybe subscribe to ournewsletter and see if there's
anything there that you mightlike to use for yourself
Fantastic.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
Thank you so much, lucy Sattler, for sharing your
wisdom with us today.
Thank you for having me.
If you've enjoyed thisconversation and want more
content like this, make sure toleave a five-star rating and
review so the Quiet Warriorpodcast can reach more
introverts around the world.
See you on the next episode.
I'm so grateful that you'rehere today.
(32:18):
If you found this contentvaluable, please share it on
your social media channels andsubscribe to the show on your
favorite listening platform.
Together, we can help moreintroverts thrive.
To receive more upliftingcontent like this, connect with
me on Instagram at Serena LoQuiet Warrior Coach.
Thank you for sharing your timeand your energy with me.
(32:39):
See you on the next episode.
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