September 7, 2025 • 45 mins
What if your business could change lives every single day? In this episode of The Quiet Warrior Podcast, I sit down with Paul Dunn, four-time TEDx speaker and chairman of B1G1 (Business for Good), to explore how businesses can create extraordinary impact through purpose and giving.
Paul shares how true leadership goes beyond profit, showing us how aligning business with social good leads to innovation, resilience, and deeper meaning. From redefining success to building a legacy of philanthropy, this is a powerful conversation for leaders, entrepreneurs, and quiet achievers seeking to make a real difference.
Discover why small, consistent acts of giving are transforming communities worldwide — and how you can be part of the movement.
What You’ll Learn in This Episode
- Purpose in Business: Why businesses that lead with purpose are the ones shaping a better future.
- Leadership Redefined: How leadership grounded in service and impact inspires deeper trust and engagement.
- The Ripple Effect of Giving: The extraordinary story of B1G1 and how small businesses are creating massive change through everyday transactions.
- Philanthropy Made Practical: Why philanthropy isn’t only for large corporations — and how small, consistent acts of giving add up.
- Social Good as Strategy: How aligning business goals with social good unlocks innovation and resilience.
- Living a Legacy of Impact: Paul’s reflections on why the real measure of success is not what we accumulate but what we contribute.
Memorable Quotes
“When you put giving at the heart of your business, everything changes — your customers, your team, and the way you lead.” – Paul Dunn
“Purpose isn’t something you find. It’s something you choose and commit to every day.” – Paul Dunn
If this conversation with Paul Dunn inspired you:
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This episode was edited by Aura House Productions
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, I'm Serena Loh.
If you're used to hearing thatintroverts are shy, anxious,
antisocial and lack goodcommunication and leadership
skills, then this podcast is foryou.
You're about to fall in lovewith the calm, introspective and
profound person that you are.
Discover what's fun, unique andpowerful about being an
(00:21):
introvert, and how to make theelegant transition from quiet
achiever to quiet warrior inyour life and work anytime you
want, in more ways than youimagined possible.
Welcome.
Welcome to the Quiet Warriorpodcast.
Today's guest is Paul Dunn, asenior fellow in one of the
(00:42):
world's leading think tanks, whoconsults to and mentors
leading-edge businesses aroundthe world.
A four-time TEDx speaker whohas featured in Forbes magazine
alongside Sir Richard Bransonand whose programs are used by
an estimated 226,000 companiesaround the world and he
continues to push the boundaries.
He's also the co-founder ofB1G1, business for Good, the
(01:06):
history-making global givinginitiative that's already
enabled businesses to createover 374 million giving impacts
globally.
Welcome, paul, to the QuietWarrior podcast.
It's great to have you heretoday.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Serena, it's my absolute privilege to be with
you and, of course, to be withthe people who are choosing to
join in and listen to us rightnow.
So, wherever you are, whetherit's in a car or whatever it is,
thank you so much for takingsome time with us.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Paul, I'm very curious about your
entrepreneurship journey andyour decades of expertise.
Could you share a bit with usabout how you got started?
Why entrepreneurship?
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Well, it's interesting.
In the question you used a veryinteresting word, which is the
word curious.
These days people ask me aslightly different question, but
I'll ask that question and thenI'll come back to your question
.
So people say to me veryfrequently well, what keeps you
going?
You know, what keeps you goingin this?
And the answer to that iscuriosity.
(02:09):
You know, it's like it'scurious as to how things work.
Sometimes it's really bigthings, you know, and sometimes
it's really tiny things, butthere's this curiosity.
And of course, that curiosityplays out when you're meeting
with someone.
Right, it just plays out and Ithink it provides the curiosity,
(02:29):
provides an interesting bridge,if, if you will.
But getting back to yourquestion, um, yes, if you look
at all of the stuff that youknow we are quote unquote
supposed to do, okay, we'resupposed to have a thing called
the hero's journey and whereeverything is like a mess and
(02:51):
then you meet your mentor andthen everything sort of opens up
and then you go through thedark night of the soul and then
you come right back.
It's supposed to be quitechallenging and when I look back
on my life, I'm sure there werechallenges.
I'm sure there were, it's justthat I don't see them.
So I see, yeah, really I seemine as predominantly luck.
(03:16):
I mean, you know, how lucky canyou be?
Seriously, just think of this.
So I finished studying for andand telecommunication
engineering that was my thingback then and so I was working
in this company in london, justoutside of london, and it was
(03:37):
one of those companies whereback then you had to have, you
know, the right school tie andall of that kind of stuff.
And then one day I got I meanthis is amazing to me even now
got headhunted by none otherthan Hewlett-Packard to be one
(03:58):
of the first 10 in HP inAustralia.
And I mean that may not soundlike a significant event, but it
is a significant event becauseyou know, I'm literally having
breakfast with the people whofounded Silicon Valley.
They literally did found it, ifyou will.
(04:22):
And I found that out through mychagrin in some ways, because
after and I was there for quitea number of years, but
eventually they said to me, paul, we'd like you to open the
Brisbane office.
And I said, oh, that's reallynice, I'm going to get this nice
big office and a nice bigbuilding.
And they said well, now you mayremember one of the values of
(04:46):
HP was that Bill and Dave BillHewlett and Dave Packard started
their business in SiliconValley before it was called
Silicon Valley in a garage.
So we think that would be areally nice way to establish
your office in Brisbane,seriously, seriously.
(05:06):
And then from there I again gotvery lucky to realize that
accountants not that I am one,although a lot of people think I
am, which is a bit disturbingin some ways to figure out that,
because I started to speak In1981, when I went to see a guy
called James Rohn you and I weretalking about him before it
(05:30):
really made me realize that forme it was like all of the stuff
I was doing with HP wasincredible.
I mean, it was reallyleading-edge stuff.
But then when I saw this guytalking to an audience of 600
people, I thought that that's me.
I remember it was like a sortof spiral and I was there with
(05:51):
him.
So then I decided that's what Iwould do and got very doing
that, partly because and thatwas of course building
businesses that was helpingpeople build better businesses.
And one day someone said to me,as I was mentoring this group
of 400 people, they said youknow, you're really quite crazy.
(06:14):
And I said, oh really, well,you know why would you say that?
And this guy said, well, I'm anaccountant.
And so here I am, this oneperson in this room of 400
people, and what I can do isuniquely leverage the skills
you're teaching me, because Ihave all of these business
(06:36):
clients right.
And so then I thought, oh,that's interesting.
Wouldn't it be interesting if Iactually started working with
the accountants?
And then I got lucky again.
You know, some 17,700 firmscame through the process.
We had called the accountantsboot camp way back until when I
sold all of that in 2000.
(06:57):
And then I started mentoringagain and you mentioned that
nice number of people who areusing the programs.
And then I had one of thosemoments and I think moments is a
really interesting word,because someone once said to me
and those of you joining us nowyou've probably had one of these
(07:20):
where, in fact maybe many wheresomething happens and you go,
whoa, what just happened?
Where did that come from, kindof thing.
That's an interesting insightthat I hadn't had before.
Someone once said to me thatwhere we are at in our life and
(07:41):
in our businesses is nothingmore or less than a reaction to
the moments that life serves us,I thought, oh, that's an
interesting way of thinkingabout it.
And so that moment for me and,by the way, I'm hoping that this
is a moment for those of youjoining us that there are some
(08:04):
insights in here where you go,oh, how interesting is that,
when I met the person who's kindenough to call me the
co-founder of B1G1, and that'sMasami Sato, as you know and she
did it, and this is reallyinteresting for all of us, I
think, to observe she did it byasking a question, and one of
(08:30):
the things that I've learnedmatch this with curiosity, right
?
So curiosity opens so many doors, right?
And, in other words, it's notknowing stuff, in a sense, it's
asking questions to help, youknow.
And Masami knew that.
(08:50):
And so here we are in thismentoring session, and she said
to me in 2007, almost exactly 18years ago actually, she said to
me can we do different today?
And I said well, what do youmean?
What's so different?
And she said well, you're mymentor, and so you're the one
(09:13):
who always asks the questions.
So I wonder if we could all ofthis in a lovely Japanese accent
, and I wonder if we couldchange that up and if I could
ask you the questions today, askyou the questions?
I said sure, of course you can.
That sounds like fun.
And she said well, my firstquestion is really a what if?
(09:33):
Question and they're reallyinteresting questions, aren't
they?
What if questions?
And she said what if we couldcreate something where, every
time business is done, somethinggreat happens in the world?
Now just think about thatquestion for a minute.
What if we could createsomething where, every time
(09:58):
business is done, somethinggreat happens in the world?
What does that mean?
What if we have a great meetingand, as a result, something
great happens in the world?
What if we send an email as aresult of that?
Something great happens bydesign, by the way, not by
(10:21):
accident, and so on?
And that was the real start ofB1G1, way back, as I said, 18
years ago.
And then, as you very kindlypointed out earlier on, you know
there's now well, you can seebehind me, it's actually 375
million impacts now.
And it's funny.
(10:44):
You know you might look at thatand go, oh, wow, that's really
cool.
You know I look at that and Igo, whoa, think about the
transformations there.
And so when I think of thatnumber, I think of, as does most
people in B1G1,.
(11:05):
We tend to think about it as asmile, and so then you start to
think about, well, what happensif 375 billion people started to
smile together?
And it becomes very interestingto think about that.
That a smile just unlocks somany things, and it's one of the
(11:27):
reasons why, as we were talkingearlier on that, officially now
I live in Japan, although I'mactually kind of like, as you
know, a global warrior, kind ofmoving around to connect with so
many people, and Japan is whereI am now, or where I stay now,
(11:49):
and that's because it is such agracious, a gracious farming
community it's.
You know, I was, we were in NewYork recently and, as I think
pretty much everybody who goesto New York goes, oh well, we
(12:10):
have to go see Times Square.
Now, I've been to Times Squarebefore, but here I am with
Masami going to Times Square,and I remember walking through
there, and this is perhaps not avery nice thing for anyone from
New York to hear, but I saidyou know what, and perhaps it's
an overstatement, but I said youknow what?
(12:31):
I think this is what hellprobably looks like in my soul.
It's not a place where youcould, where most people, I
think, could feel comfortable,and I think there's a limit,
(12:51):
isn't there, to the amount of,you know, quote-unquote
stimulation that we can have.
And, of course, when we're inthat particular place, I mean
think about this when we're inthat particular place, are we
going to make better decisionsabout things at that point, or
are we going to make betterdecisions both for ourselves and
for the people that we'reprivileged to serve when we're
(13:13):
at this sort of calming leveland I think you know calming
level is the best place to be?
Does that all make sense?
That was a very long answer.
Thank you for letting me gowith the answer, but I hope it
made sense.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
I'm very intrigued by the mention of the calming
presence as opposed to perhapssomething that's chaotic and
louder, because that also tiesin nicely with the theme of this
podcast and most of ourlisteners being introverts and
quiet achievements who are?
also sensitive, I think, to theenergy of the environment.
(13:50):
So a lot of our culture at themoment is quite extrovert,
biased in that the louder youare, the more dominant your
presence.
That is something to be admired, and if you are quiet, you may
be called too quiet.
Your voice may be labeled tooquiet.
Your voice may be, labeled toosoft.
But you've just spokenbeautifully about the Japanese
culture and in a culture likethat, to be introverted is
(14:15):
actually part of, I think, partof the DNA of what makes someone
Japanese is to be subtle, to bediscreet, to be discreet to to
be considerate, to be thoughtful, to be attentive to detail and
not to seek to be in thespotlight all the time.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
So that is quite a contrast, I think, to you know,
for instance, time square andthat kind of chaotic bustling,
always on energy, the city thatnever sleeps yeah, yeah, or you
know many podcasts that youmaybe not podcasts where people
are being interviewed, butpodcasts where you know people
(14:55):
have made a video to, as youmentioned, you know, sort of
gather attention.
And I happen, right now, Ihappen to be staying in a
friend's house here in Singaporeand this friend has a
19-year-old teenager who wantsto be an entrepreneur, which is
(15:16):
interesting for me to say rightnow, anyway, and he happens to
be French as well, and so he was.
I was saying to him, just toback up what you were saying.
I said so his name is Lozano.
So I said Lozano, what are youlistening to?
He said I've got this one overhere and I won't mention the
(15:39):
name of it, but it was somebodywho has 5 million views on
YouTube and it was supposedlyabout sales and it was done with
this high energy and it wasdone with.
And I said to him afterwards Isaid what did you get from that?
And he eventually came out withwell, it was me versus sales,
(16:05):
the other person and I said well, leslie, just go figure how
sustainable that is, what's itisn't.
But what if it wasn't that?
What if it was us?
You know, helping the otherperson see things in a different
way.
What if it was not a you knowsort of that sort of thing, but
was a together kind of thing?
(16:27):
Wouldn't that be better foreveryone involved?
Wouldn't that be better foreveryone involved?
Wouldn't that be better for you?
Wouldn't that be because youdon't you know, you don't have
to perform, want to go performsomething, and of course it
would be much better for theother person.
And when you're that level, whenyou're at that, as you
described it a while ago, thatcalming level, then you almost
(16:49):
can't help to build one of themost important elements between
two people, and that is trust.
We tend to trust people withthat calming influence and
that's an incredibly importantthing in business right now.
(17:10):
When you know, if you read allof the stats about what's
happening in various businesses,you know you find, oh, that's
at the lowest level, well, forall sorts of reasons that you
mentioned earlier on.
So if we can come in and bethat as you have it, the quiet
warrior or the you know, thequiet voice kind of thing, I
(17:31):
think that's an enormousadvantage.
I really do.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
I'm glad you mentioned sustainability,
because that's something thatbecomes increasingly important
the further we go in life.
The older we get, we suddenlyrealize, hang on, I don't have
as much energy as I used to.
How do I want to use the energythat I have?
And that's something we alwaysencourage our world.
You know the introvertcommunity as well.
(17:54):
I like to remind them that youknow we do really have a social
battery.
That's quite different from howextroverts operate, for
instance.
So the more we talk to people,the more that battery gets
drained.
So be very intentional aboutthe way we put ourselves out
there, because every time we dothat expose ourselves, for
instance some of that batterygoes down.
(18:17):
So who are we talking to andfor what purpose?
Why are we being visible?
For what purpose?
So I just find those threewords for what purpose?
Extremely helpful for mepersonally, cutting through the
noise.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Yeah, words for what purpose?
Extremely helpful for mepersonally, cutting through the
noise, yeah, and, and, funnilyenough, with that young man,
yeah, 19, yeah, young, 19 yearold.
I actually said him at onepoint what if it's not about you
?
What if it's not about you?
What about if it's somethingyou, you mentioned?
What if it's about somethingbigger?
I, you know, I like, I like thethought and I think you may
(18:53):
have heard me talk about itbefore I like the thought of
someone who we think was a sortof out there kind of guy,
notably steve jobs.
But then again, when you look athim in all sorts of other
things, you begin to questionthat.
Right, when you look at hisharvard speech and all of that
kind of stuff, right, and at onepoint and interestingly, you
(19:14):
know, as a, as a father, hedidn't let his kids get on to.
You know, on all of that stuff,right, and the reason for that,
and uh, so at one point he hedid, though, say this, and, and,
umnily enough, when I was at HP, he was interning at Hewlett
Packard at the same time.
(19:34):
I was there, but I never knew.
Oh, no one ever said, oh,that's Steve Jobs over there.
But anyway, when he went toPixar and Pixar's really
interesting right, because Pixarhas this special ingredient and
Jobs kind of captured it.
And he said the storyteller isthe most powerful person in the
(19:58):
world.
Now, let's you and I ignorethat power word for a minute.
Let's just ignore that.
And let's look at the bitunderneath that, where he said
the storyteller sets the vision,the values and the agenda for
an entire generation yet to come.
Those last seven words, I mean,are the crucial ones for an
(20:19):
entire generation yet to come,because when you get that, you
realize it's as you, it's notabout you, it's about something
kind of bigger, in a sense, thanyou.
And then, by focusing on wherethe other person is and focusing
on their outcomes.
(20:40):
It's a sort of a transformativeway of thinking about
relationships.
I think way of thinking aboutrelationships, I think, and
again, curiosity, I think, playsa really interesting.
In fact, one of the people thatI really look out for is a guy
(21:01):
called Joe Pine, and Joe wrote abook way back in the late 1990s
which was a very famous book.
It was called the ExperienceEconomy and how we should, you
know, create great sort ofservice experiences for people
who were the people that we wereprivileged to serve as
(21:23):
entrepreneurs.
And his new book, interestinglyenough, is called the
Transformation Economy and hereally interestingly defines and
I've been following you canfollow Joe if you really like
Joe and you're part of thecommunity Well, now it's just
(21:45):
all closed off, but veryinterestingly and he is very
introverted, by the way, and heto the extent that every
Thursday he lets us see whathe's writing with the
expectation that we can add orpoint out various things as he
goes through, which is reallyinteresting.
Anyway, the book is to bepublished in February 26.
(22:10):
But in the book he talks aboutthe transformation economy and
he talks about our role, ourrole as entrepreneurs, for
example, our role being guides.
I love that analogy, just beingguides, you know I love that
analogy just being guides, youknow.
(22:30):
And he actually says that hehas discovered through this
writing process what greatbusinesses stand for, what the
purpose of a great business is,and he puts it.
Can I just share with you thisline that he says?
It's a very interesting line.
He says the purpose of a greatcompany is to foster.
(22:55):
These words are reallyinteresting words that we don't
hear a lot.
He says to foster humanityflourishing.
And I love that line fosterhumanity flourishing.
And he doesn't say fosteringhumanity flourishing in a
particular way where we're allsort of out there.
It just says fostering humanityflourishing.
(23:18):
And to me it's a and then ifyou see your role as, for
example, a leader and all ofthose sorts of things, and then
you kind of get that's whyyou're here I mean it's a role
in the sense that you play onthe podcast you bring all these
(23:38):
people together with aparticular purpose to see things
in a very interesting way, in away that people feel
comfortable with.
So it's not a stressful thing.
And why would it be stressfulif we're going to say you know,
we have to live it every day, sowouldn't it be nice if we could
do that calmly through the day,wouldn't that be nice?
Speaker 1 (24:02):
Definitely.
If only we have more calmspaces, and this is one of them.
The idea I love that idea thatyou keep mentioning about it's
not about us, it's aboutsomething bigger, it's for all
of us and funnily, you remindedme of a song that I heard
recently, and the lyrics wereagain about that.
(24:23):
This person was saying everytime I walk, every time I run,
everything I do, it's always forus.
And I think that concept of forus is something we need so much
to get back to, and we talkabout it theoretically, but then
again, by actions, we seem togo the opposite way and we start
(24:43):
doing things for ourselves, atthe exclusion of others, and
then we need people to remind usit's for us, it's for us, you
know, that there is lessdivision.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
It is, and you probably know, I mean when you
said that you just opened up alittle channel for me, because
you may know that when I startedmaybe if I go back to 1981,
when I saw James Rowan, Istarted speaking and someone who
was kind of like a key mentorto speakers in Australia at that
time he's no longer with us,but his name is Ron Tacky and
(25:17):
Ron sort of took me under hiswing a little bit and said hey,
paul, you know, I think you'regoing to be great, so on and so
forth.
And he said can I ask you aquestion?
I said sure.
He said do you ever getbutterflies when you speak?
And I thought, oh, I bettertell him the truth.
I can't say, oh no, you arereally tough.
So I said, of course.
And he said oh, I'm really gladto hear that, because now that
(25:41):
you get the butterflies there'sa really interesting thing you
can do.
And I said what's that?
He said you can do something toget the butterflies flying in
formation.
I thought, whoa, it's such acool thing.
And for years, years, just youhere, you, you, a moment ago,
using two words, they justtriggered something with me,
(26:01):
because for years, in fact untilfive years ago, whenever I
would take the stage, um, therewould be, or, for that matter,
podcast.
When we used to do that, or youknow virtual things, I would
find a shiny object it could bea spoon, it could be, or you
know on virtually, I'm sort oflooking at myself anyway.
So, and before as I'm beingintroduced, I did it today as,
(26:27):
as I'm being introduced, I'msaying something under my breath
, I'm watching myself, and if wewere doing this five years ago,
I would have been saying them,them or them, or them, them to
get it off me.
Does that make sense?
And then, one very rainy sundayin singapore, I happened to
(26:52):
flip on the tv.
Very sunny sunday morning, itwas pouring rain and we had
planned to go out, but kidsswitched on the tv and there was
this from a nordic country Icannot remember which Nordic
country it was, but I doremember it was Nordic and it
(27:14):
had these beautiful visualswhere there was this woman.
It started off with this womansurrounded by a white infinity
screen, if you know what I mean.
And then, in the background,over her left shoulder, was this
biker.
I mean the ultimate rough,tough biker guy.
(27:36):
You know, like rings comingeverywhere ears, nose, mouth.
You know all of that sort ofstuff and you know really.
And this beautiful woman whowas at the center, just turned
around, saw this person.
It was clear she didn't knowhim, but just walked over and
held his hand and I thought,well, that's pretty interesting.
(27:58):
And then someone from the otherside who was dressed kind of
interestingly you would noticethis woman if he passed you, but
she had it was like a soft tonedresses and things and she
walked over and stayed there inthe middle and then she saw the
(28:18):
other two and then they all heldhands and so on, anyway, and
then this just went on and thewhole message from the Nordic
government was diversity isgreat.
That was the whole message.
And that day I remember thatafternoon I flew to Bali to give
a speech in Bali and I wouldnormally have said for them, for
(28:43):
them, for them, for them, forthem.
And then I realized, as well asthat commercial, that by saying
for them was actually putting abarrier between me and them.
Does that make sense?
And so that very afternoonbecame for us, for us, for us,
for us.
So that was a reallyinteresting trigger that you
(29:06):
gave me right there and it's agood way.
It's a good way to think aboutit, isn't?
Speaker 1 (29:10):
it.
Yes, yes, I just love how theseyou know how these dots join up
in such a divine manner.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
So back to what you said about butterflies, because
that's really important for ourintroverted listeners, the ones
who are deathly afraid ofspeaking, and public speaking in
particular, to know that it'snormal to have butterflies
before you speak.
In any kind of visibility workwe do, any form of putting
ourselves out there, there isthat little moment where you
(29:38):
feel unsafe and you're not sureof yourself.
But you said, the butterfliescan fly in formation.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
You can do things which gets them flying.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
Yes, to get them flying in formation, which is a
beautiful image to hold on to,and also the idea of that it's
not about me, it's not that I'mgoing to be.
It doesn't have to beperformative.
I don't have to be perfect, Idon't have to speak perfectly.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
No, you don't.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
And it's not even for them, it's for us.
So for them it's already onelevel removed, as in.
It's a Jim Rohn and Mr Stoffkind of analogy.
Yes, it is, yes, it is Puttingit on someone else, but then
when you think it's collectively, I'm a part of this collective,
we all are, we're all in ittogether, and what you're doing
(30:32):
yes, what you're doing inspeaking, is adding to the
collective wisdom, and so you'redoing something good.
You are planting a seed.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
You are indeed.
And I had a circumstance wheresomebody you know was standing
next to me who frequentlysuffers from what would, I think
, mostly be called impostersyndrome, and so what the heck
am I doing here, kind of thing.
You know, I'm looking aroundand the organizer had this
(31:06):
person, masami, as right.
Masami was next to me and shehad been speaking from a table
it was one of these things whereeverybody could get in and then
the host pointed at Masami andsaid Masami, we'd love to hear
your view.
And so Masami said you knowwhatever Masami said.
(31:26):
And then, you know, maybe aquarter of an hour later we were
leaving and the host said oh,masami, that was really, really
lovely.
And Masami said oh, are yousure?
Because you know being in thiscompany, meaning the company of
people there.
She said I have to tell you, themoment I walked in I had
(31:48):
imposter syndrome.
She said I have to tell you,the moment I walked in I had
imposter syndrome.
And she said it not quite asfortunately she was saying I had
imposter syndrome,no-transcript.
(32:18):
And she said well, yes, I did.
And he said what did you see?
And she said well, people weresort of leaning in and they
seemed to be enjoying where Iwas going and all of that kind
of stuff.
And he said next time when youthink you have imposter syndrome
(32:41):
, just make a little note not totake that outcome from the
people that you could have beenspeaking with.
I thought again so powerful.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
Yes, and that's a very good one for not just
introverts, but anyone who atany time has felt that they
didn't belong in the room ordidn't belong in that meeting,
at that table, because theythought everybody else was
superior to them in some way.
And perhaps it is a sign ofmodesty, humility, perhaps taken
(33:18):
a little bit to the extreme, tothink that I don't deserve to
be here, I'm not as smart as, orI'm not as competent as, or
these people are way moreexperienced, have a longer track
record, and so on.
But one thing that has alsohelped me in thinking about
imposter syndrome is also thatif somebody credible is telling
me that I've done a good job andI'm saying no, no, no, done a
(33:47):
good job, and I'm saying no, no,no, I'm sort of disagreeing, or
rather I'm making them wrongnow, which is not very, not very
polite or very respectful of meeither.
I'm saying that I their opinionis not accurate and I'm going to
hang on to my opinion that I'mnot good enough.
So when I thought about it thatway, it was easier to let go
and not focus so much Again.
Thinking of for us actuallyhelps with the imposter syndrome
(34:09):
too, because I think peoplefind people who are imperfect
very relatable, people who makea little mistake here and there.
Yes, who just show their humanside and reveal a little you
know little imperfections hereand there.
It makes other people relax too.
They can take a breath and say,ah, you know, if they are
(34:32):
taking the stage and they arelike that, well you know, I'm
okay, it's okay.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
And I think that can be taken to a very good extreme.
You know extremes are sometimesregarded as like bad things,
but that's why I say goodextreme, Because if let's go
back to the whole kind ofin-your-face thing, that is the
opposite of what we're talkingabout.
(35:02):
People really don't like beingin the face and let's just say
well, let me just put it thisway If you're in a position of
needing help for example, let'ssay, needing help to build a
(35:22):
business, needing help to dowhatever it was, needing help
with a's say needing help tobuild a business, needing help
to do whatever it was, needinghelp with a speech, needing help
to meet with someone needinghelp, all of those sorts of
things Then when you think aboutit people, are you listening to
us now and showing your life?
We are all more likely to wantto offer help to somebody who
(35:49):
kind of I wouldn't say is cryingout for it, but someone who
clearly has a good idea butmaybe needs that little extra
bit of help that we might beable to provide, able to provide
.
And so you know the, the wholeidea of sort of pumping yourself
up and all of that, it's I, I.
I think that's not.
You know what?
What do they say?
(36:09):
The whole fake it till you makeit thing.
No, I, that's.
That's very definitely notauthentic, and authenticity is
something that is really, reallyvalued.
Why?
Because it actually links totrust.
You know, know, I cannot trustyou if I think you're not
authentic, I can't.
The two just go together.
(36:30):
So that's one of the reasons whyI thought it was actually
important to you know, have theprivilege of talking with you
today and perhaps opening upsome thoughts that maybe don't
necessarily get opened up allthat often and be able to put
(36:52):
them in a way that people canrelate to and, as a result, have
some moments that really matter.
And, by the way, way just onthat, um, I'm not sure whether
I've I've mentioned to you that,with these moments and someone
(37:13):
and and this whole thing aroundperformance and all of that kind
of stuff that we've beentalking about, someone once said
to me that because when we,when we quote unquote, do in
some way, or when we kind of letourselves down or what, or we
think that's what happened right, that that memory is is really
(37:39):
not a very good memory.
And so this friend of mine someyears ago he said to me, paul,
he said always remember thatwhen your vision becomes more
powerful than your memory, yourfuture becomes more powerful
than your past.
And so it's that vision ofwhere we are going and where we
(38:02):
can actually take people on thisjourney as guides that becomes
very, very important in makingour world a better place that
made me really think for a fewmoments, there, where your
vision becomes more powerfulthan your memory, and then your
(38:23):
future becomes more powerfulthan your memory, and then your
future becomes more powerfulthan your past, of course, of
course forward-facing.
Speaker 1 (38:30):
So we learn from the past and we create something
better for the future.
Which then leads me to askwhere to next for B1G1, and what
do you see it becoming in thenext 10 years?
Speaker 2 (38:41):
Oh, what a great question that is.
Well, when Masami, in 2007,after that question, she asked
me she had been pondering B1G1,as it turns out, which for quite
some time, but this is thefirst time she released the idea
, you might say, the idea, youmight say.
(39:09):
And so she said uh, what thisis all about, she said, is
creating a world that's full ofgiving.
And I remember saying at thetime oh, that's, that's a pretty
big thing, the world that'sfull of giving.
And I think maybe people willlook at that and go well, that's
very nice to have, but it'simpossible, you know, and maybe
that way, people may not sort ofrealize where this can go, but
(39:36):
and the more I think about it, Ithink more and more people are
realizing that that is in factwhere we have to go.
You know, the world is the onlyway I can describe it as an
(39:56):
interesting place, right, andthere's so many things going on
that we look at and we go.
How on earth could they thinkthat?
How on earth could they thinkthat?
And someone else I was at ameeting in London, and this is
the real answer to that, by theway, and this poet, her name is
(40:22):
Sophia Saku, and this is likethree years ago and she's a
black poet and she came on thisstage where there's 150 of us in
the room and it's a prettyhigh-level gathering.
If I could name drop for aminute, I'm sitting next to Elon
(40:44):
Musk's business partner.
On the other side is thedirector of operations at the
BBC, and then next to her issomeone who said to me oh you
probably know, sir David, don'tyou, sir David, who?
And she said Attenborough, andI said, well, I'd love to
(41:06):
because I watch everything.
And she happened to be hisproducer.
So, anyway, it's a prettyinteresting gathering that would
meet to try and figure outwhere the world is going.
And so on the stage, if youlooked at the stage in London,
in london, central london, atthe barbican, actually in
central london, so on the, asyou look at it together with me
(41:29):
now, you, you look on on on ourleft hand side and and you see
this guy on a minute andproducing incredible choral
music and you feel like you'reat the center of the universe
and it's, it's amazing.
And then you see the on theright hand side, this cello
player with this, thesebeautiful deep strokes and
(41:52):
things right.
And then in the middle, you seethese two women, one of both of
whom are dressed in longflowing robes, and as the music
plays, one of them starts tosing these choral things, which
just puts you at the center ofthe universe.
More right then this blackwoman comes out and she has a
microphone stand sorry, a musicstand mixer.
(42:14):
So I think she's going to, youknow, do some sort of song.
But then I realize it takes me acouple of lines for me to get
it that she's actually readingfrom a specially commissioned
poem that she has written, andshe gets to the third line.
Here's the third line,delivered in this beautiful,
rich voice, and she says andthis is a message for all of us,
(42:39):
it really is for, she says, andthe reason it's for all of us,
it really is for all of us.
She said, and the reason it'sfor all of us, by the way, is we
all have moments like this, wedo.
She said have you ever noticedwhen things break, they open.
Isn't that such a brilliant wayof saying?
(43:06):
There's always somethingsomewhere that's brighter or not
more brighter is perhaps thewrong word but that you didn't
see whilst you had this thinghere.
You know there was nothing, butall of a sudden you just see
different possibilities as aresult of what's going on.
So I think that a lot of us areseeing those things every day.
Speaker 1 (43:30):
Yes, and you've reminded me, perhaps it was I
think it was Leonard Cohen thatsaid the cracks are where the
light gets in.
Speaker 2 (43:40):
There you go.
Speaker 1 (43:42):
So when something breaks, it opens.
It opens up new possibilities,it opens up a new perspective.
Maybe it creates some space,some air for something else to
come in something else to grow,and that is a very optimistic
way to finish off ourconversation today.
And how do people connect withyou and find out more about your
thoughts and find out moreabout B1G1?
Speaker 2 (44:03):
Oh, yes, yes, yes, okay.
Well, they can go from a B1G1perspective, which is a good
place to go and a goodperspective to have.
That's at B1G1.com.
And if you just search for me,paul Dunn, up there on LinkedIn,
I'm not the Mormon ministerthat I think is sort of
mescaline.
I'm a different Mormon minister.
(44:26):
That I think is sort ofmasculine.
I'm a different border.
So go have a look there and I'dbe thrilled to connect with you
in whatever way you feelappropriate.
So let's do that.
Speaker 1 (44:38):
Thank you so much, paul, for coming on the Quiet
Warrior podcast today.
If you enjoyed today's episode,be sure to subscribe to the
Quiet Warrior podcast and leaveus a five-star rating and review
to help us reach moreintroverts and quiet achievers
around the world.
See you on the next episode.
I'm so grateful that you'rehere today.
If you found this contentvaluable, please share it on
(45:00):
your social media channels andsubscribe to the show on your
favorite listening platform.
Together, we can help moreintroverts thrive To receive
more uplifting content like this.
Connect with me on Instagram atSerena Lo, quiet Warrior Coach.
Thank you for sharing your timeand your energy with me.
See you on the next episode.
Hi, I'm Serena Loh.
If you're used to hearing thatintroverts are shy, anxious,
antisocial and lack goodcommunication and leadership
skills, then this podcast is foryou.
You're about to fall in lovewith the calm, introspective and
profound person that you are.
Discover what's fun, unique andpowerful about being an
(00:21):
introvert, and how to make theelegant transition from quiet
achiever to quiet warrior inyour life and work anytime you
want, in more ways than youimagined possible.
Welcome.
Welcome to the Quiet Warriorpodcast.
Today's guest is Paul Dunn, asenior fellow in one of the
(00:42):
world's leading think tanks, whoconsults to and mentors
leading-edge businesses aroundthe world.
A four-time TEDx speaker whohas featured in Forbes magazine
alongside Sir Richard Bransonand whose programs are used by
an estimated 226,000 companiesaround the world and he
continues to push the boundaries.
He's also the co-founder ofB1G1, business for Good, the
(01:06):
history-making global givinginitiative that's already
enabled businesses to createover 374 million giving impacts
globally.
Welcome, paul, to the QuietWarrior podcast.
It's great to have you heretoday.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Serena, it's my absolute privilege to be with
you and, of course, to be withthe people who are choosing to
join in and listen to us rightnow.
So, wherever you are, whetherit's in a car or whatever it is,
thank you so much for takingsome time with us.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Paul, I'm very curious about your
entrepreneurship journey andyour decades of expertise.
Could you share a bit with usabout how you got started?
Why entrepreneurship?
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Well, it's interesting.
In the question you used a veryinteresting word, which is the
word curious.
These days people ask me aslightly different question, but
I'll ask that question and thenI'll come back to your question
.
So people say to me veryfrequently well, what keeps you
going?
You know, what keeps you goingin this?
And the answer to that iscuriosity.
(02:09):
You know, it's like it'scurious as to how things work.
Sometimes it's really bigthings, you know, and sometimes
it's really tiny things, butthere's this curiosity.
And of course, that curiosityplays out when you're meeting
with someone.
Right, it just plays out and Ithink it provides the curiosity,
(02:29):
provides an interesting bridge,if, if you will.
But getting back to yourquestion, um, yes, if you look
at all of the stuff that youknow we are quote unquote
supposed to do, okay, we'resupposed to have a thing called
the hero's journey and whereeverything is like a mess and
(02:51):
then you meet your mentor andthen everything sort of opens up
and then you go through thedark night of the soul and then
you come right back.
It's supposed to be quitechallenging and when I look back
on my life, I'm sure there werechallenges.
I'm sure there were, it's justthat I don't see them.
So I see, yeah, really I seemine as predominantly luck.
(03:16):
I mean, you know, how lucky canyou be?
Seriously, just think of this.
So I finished studying for andand telecommunication
engineering that was my thingback then and so I was working
in this company in london, justoutside of london, and it was
(03:37):
one of those companies whereback then you had to have, you
know, the right school tie andall of that kind of stuff.
And then one day I got I meanthis is amazing to me even now
got headhunted by none otherthan Hewlett-Packard to be one
(03:58):
of the first 10 in HP inAustralia.
And I mean that may not soundlike a significant event, but it
is a significant event becauseyou know, I'm literally having
breakfast with the people whofounded Silicon Valley.
They literally did found it, ifyou will.
(04:22):
And I found that out through mychagrin in some ways, because
after and I was there for quitea number of years, but
eventually they said to me, paul, we'd like you to open the
Brisbane office.
And I said, oh, that's reallynice, I'm going to get this nice
big office and a nice bigbuilding.
And they said well, now you mayremember one of the values of
(04:46):
HP was that Bill and Dave BillHewlett and Dave Packard started
their business in SiliconValley before it was called
Silicon Valley in a garage.
So we think that would be areally nice way to establish
your office in Brisbane,seriously, seriously.
(05:06):
And then from there I again gotvery lucky to realize that
accountants not that I am one,although a lot of people think I
am, which is a bit disturbingin some ways to figure out that,
because I started to speak In1981, when I went to see a guy
called James Rohn you and I weretalking about him before it
(05:30):
really made me realize that forme it was like all of the stuff
I was doing with HP wasincredible.
I mean, it was reallyleading-edge stuff.
But then when I saw this guytalking to an audience of 600
people, I thought that that's me.
I remember it was like a sortof spiral and I was there with
(05:51):
him.
So then I decided that's what Iwould do and got very doing
that, partly because and thatwas of course building
businesses that was helpingpeople build better businesses.
And one day someone said to me,as I was mentoring this group
of 400 people, they said youknow, you're really quite crazy.
(06:14):
And I said, oh really, well,you know why would you say that?
And this guy said, well, I'm anaccountant.
And so here I am, this oneperson in this room of 400
people, and what I can do isuniquely leverage the skills
you're teaching me, because Ihave all of these business
(06:36):
clients right.
And so then I thought, oh,that's interesting.
Wouldn't it be interesting if Iactually started working with
the accountants?
And then I got lucky again.
You know, some 17,700 firmscame through the process.
We had called the accountantsboot camp way back until when I
sold all of that in 2000.
(06:57):
And then I started mentoringagain and you mentioned that
nice number of people who areusing the programs.
And then I had one of thosemoments and I think moments is a
really interesting word,because someone once said to me
and those of you joining us nowyou've probably had one of these
(07:20):
where, in fact maybe many wheresomething happens and you go,
whoa, what just happened?
Where did that come from, kindof thing.
That's an interesting insightthat I hadn't had before.
Someone once said to me thatwhere we are at in our life and
(07:41):
in our businesses is nothingmore or less than a reaction to
the moments that life serves us,I thought, oh, that's an
interesting way of thinkingabout it.
And so that moment for me and,by the way, I'm hoping that this
is a moment for those of youjoining us that there are some
(08:04):
insights in here where you go,oh, how interesting is that,
when I met the person who's kindenough to call me the
co-founder of B1G1, and that'sMasami Sato, as you know and she
did it, and this is reallyinteresting for all of us, I
think, to observe she did it byasking a question, and one of
(08:30):
the things that I've learnedmatch this with curiosity, right
?
So curiosity opens so many doors, right?
And, in other words, it's notknowing stuff, in a sense, it's
asking questions to help, youknow.
And Masami knew that.
(08:50):
And so here we are in thismentoring session, and she said
to me in 2007, almost exactly 18years ago actually, she said to
me can we do different today?
And I said well, what do youmean?
What's so different?
And she said well, you're mymentor, and so you're the one
(09:13):
who always asks the questions.
So I wonder if we could all ofthis in a lovely Japanese accent
, and I wonder if we couldchange that up and if I could
ask you the questions today, askyou the questions?
I said sure, of course you can.
That sounds like fun.
And she said well, my firstquestion is really a what if?
(09:33):
Question and they're reallyinteresting questions, aren't
they?
What if questions?
And she said what if we couldcreate something where, every
time business is done, somethinggreat happens in the world?
Now just think about thatquestion for a minute.
What if we could createsomething where, every time
(09:58):
business is done, somethinggreat happens in the world?
What does that mean?
What if we have a great meetingand, as a result, something
great happens in the world?
What if we send an email as aresult of that?
Something great happens bydesign, by the way, not by
(10:21):
accident, and so on?
And that was the real start ofB1G1, way back, as I said, 18
years ago.
And then, as you very kindlypointed out earlier on, you know
there's now well, you can seebehind me, it's actually 375
million impacts now.
And it's funny.
(10:44):
You know you might look at thatand go, oh, wow, that's really
cool.
You know I look at that and Igo, whoa, think about the
transformations there.
And so when I think of thatnumber, I think of, as does most
people in B1G1,.
(11:05):
We tend to think about it as asmile, and so then you start to
think about, well, what happensif 375 billion people started to
smile together?
And it becomes very interestingto think about that.
That a smile just unlocks somany things, and it's one of the
(11:27):
reasons why, as we were talkingearlier on that, officially now
I live in Japan, although I'mactually kind of like, as you
know, a global warrior, kind ofmoving around to connect with so
many people, and Japan is whereI am now, or where I stay now,
(11:49):
and that's because it is such agracious, a gracious farming
community it's.
You know, I was, we were in NewYork recently and, as I think
pretty much everybody who goesto New York goes, oh well, we
(12:10):
have to go see Times Square.
Now, I've been to Times Squarebefore, but here I am with
Masami going to Times Square,and I remember walking through
there, and this is perhaps not avery nice thing for anyone from
New York to hear, but I saidyou know what, and perhaps it's
an overstatement, but I said youknow what?
(12:31):
I think this is what hellprobably looks like in my soul.
It's not a place where youcould, where most people, I
think, could feel comfortable,and I think there's a limit,
(12:51):
isn't there, to the amount of,you know, quote-unquote
stimulation that we can have.
And, of course, when we're inthat particular place, I mean
think about this when we're inthat particular place, are we
going to make better decisionsabout things at that point, or
are we going to make betterdecisions both for ourselves and
for the people that we'reprivileged to serve when we're
(13:13):
at this sort of calming leveland I think you know calming
level is the best place to be?
Does that all make sense?
That was a very long answer.
Thank you for letting me gowith the answer, but I hope it
made sense.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
I'm very intrigued by the mention of the calming
presence as opposed to perhapssomething that's chaotic and
louder, because that also tiesin nicely with the theme of this
podcast and most of ourlisteners being introverts and
quiet achievements who are?
also sensitive, I think, to theenergy of the environment.
(13:50):
So a lot of our culture at themoment is quite extrovert,
biased in that the louder youare, the more dominant your
presence.
That is something to be admired, and if you are quiet, you may
be called too quiet.
Your voice may be labeled tooquiet.
Your voice may be, labeled toosoft.
But you've just spokenbeautifully about the Japanese
culture and in a culture likethat, to be introverted is
(14:15):
actually part of, I think, partof the DNA of what makes someone
Japanese is to be subtle, to bediscreet, to be discreet to to
be considerate, to be thoughtful, to be attentive to detail and
not to seek to be in thespotlight all the time.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
So that is quite a contrast, I think, to you know,
for instance, time square andthat kind of chaotic bustling,
always on energy, the city thatnever sleeps yeah, yeah, or you
know many podcasts that youmaybe not podcasts where people
are being interviewed, butpodcasts where you know people
(14:55):
have made a video to, as youmentioned, you know, sort of
gather attention.
And I happen, right now, Ihappen to be staying in a
friend's house here in Singaporeand this friend has a
19-year-old teenager who wantsto be an entrepreneur, which is
(15:16):
interesting for me to say rightnow, anyway, and he happens to
be French as well, and so he was.
I was saying to him, just toback up what you were saying.
I said so his name is Lozano.
So I said Lozano, what are youlistening to?
He said I've got this one overhere and I won't mention the
(15:39):
name of it, but it was somebodywho has 5 million views on
YouTube and it was supposedlyabout sales and it was done with
this high energy and it wasdone with.
And I said to him afterwards Isaid what did you get from that?
And he eventually came out withwell, it was me versus sales,
(16:05):
the other person and I said well, leslie, just go figure how
sustainable that is, what's itisn't.
But what if it wasn't that?
What if it was us?
You know, helping the otherperson see things in a different
way.
What if it was not a you knowsort of that sort of thing, but
was a together kind of thing?
(16:27):
Wouldn't that be better foreveryone involved?
Wouldn't that be better foreveryone involved?
Wouldn't that be better for you?
Wouldn't that be because youdon't you know, you don't have
to perform, want to go performsomething, and of course it
would be much better for theother person.
And when you're that level, whenyou're at that, as you
described it a while ago, thatcalming level, then you almost
(16:49):
can't help to build one of themost important elements between
two people, and that is trust.
We tend to trust people withthat calming influence and
that's an incredibly importantthing in business right now.
(17:10):
When you know, if you read allof the stats about what's
happening in various businesses,you know you find, oh, that's
at the lowest level, well, forall sorts of reasons that you
mentioned earlier on.
So if we can come in and bethat as you have it, the quiet
warrior or the you know, thequiet voice kind of thing, I
(17:31):
think that's an enormousadvantage.
I really do.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
I'm glad you mentioned sustainability,
because that's something thatbecomes increasingly important
the further we go in life.
The older we get, we suddenlyrealize, hang on, I don't have
as much energy as I used to.
How do I want to use the energythat I have?
And that's something we alwaysencourage our world.
You know the introvertcommunity as well.
(17:54):
I like to remind them that youknow we do really have a social
battery.
That's quite different from howextroverts operate, for
instance.
So the more we talk to people,the more that battery gets
drained.
So be very intentional aboutthe way we put ourselves out
there, because every time we dothat expose ourselves, for
instance some of that batterygoes down.
(18:17):
So who are we talking to andfor what purpose?
Why are we being visible?
For what purpose?
So I just find those threewords for what purpose?
Extremely helpful for mepersonally, cutting through the
noise.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Yeah, words for what purpose?
Extremely helpful for mepersonally, cutting through the
noise, yeah, and, and, funnilyenough, with that young man,
yeah, 19, yeah, young, 19 yearold.
I actually said him at onepoint what if it's not about you
?
What if it's not about you?
What about if it's somethingyou, you mentioned?
What if it's about somethingbigger?
I, you know, I like, I like thethought and I think you may
(18:53):
have heard me talk about itbefore I like the thought of
someone who we think was a sortof out there kind of guy,
notably steve jobs.
But then again, when you look athim in all sorts of other
things, you begin to questionthat.
Right, when you look at hisharvard speech and all of that
kind of stuff, right, and at onepoint and interestingly, you
(19:14):
know, as a, as a father, hedidn't let his kids get on to.
You know, on all of that stuff,right, and the reason for that,
and uh, so at one point he hedid, though, say this, and, and,
umnily enough, when I was at HP, he was interning at Hewlett
Packard at the same time.
(19:34):
I was there, but I never knew.
Oh, no one ever said, oh,that's Steve Jobs over there.
But anyway, when he went toPixar and Pixar's really
interesting right, because Pixarhas this special ingredient and
Jobs kind of captured it.
And he said the storyteller isthe most powerful person in the
(19:58):
world.
Now, let's you and I ignorethat power word for a minute.
Let's just ignore that.
And let's look at the bitunderneath that, where he said
the storyteller sets the vision,the values and the agenda for
an entire generation yet to come.
Those last seven words, I mean,are the crucial ones for an
(20:19):
entire generation yet to come,because when you get that, you
realize it's as you, it's notabout you, it's about something
kind of bigger, in a sense, thanyou.
And then, by focusing on wherethe other person is and focusing
on their outcomes.
(20:40):
It's a sort of a transformativeway of thinking about
relationships.
I think way of thinking aboutrelationships, I think, and
again, curiosity, I think, playsa really interesting.
In fact, one of the people thatI really look out for is a guy
(21:01):
called Joe Pine, and Joe wrote abook way back in the late 1990s
which was a very famous book.
It was called the ExperienceEconomy and how we should, you
know, create great sort ofservice experiences for people
who were the people that we wereprivileged to serve as
(21:23):
entrepreneurs.
And his new book, interestinglyenough, is called the
Transformation Economy and hereally interestingly defines and
I've been following you canfollow Joe if you really like
Joe and you're part of thecommunity Well, now it's just
(21:45):
all closed off, but veryinterestingly and he is very
introverted, by the way, and heto the extent that every
Thursday he lets us see whathe's writing with the
expectation that we can add orpoint out various things as he
goes through, which is reallyinteresting.
Anyway, the book is to bepublished in February 26.
(22:10):
But in the book he talks aboutthe transformation economy and
he talks about our role, ourrole as entrepreneurs, for
example, our role being guides.
I love that analogy, just beingguides, you know I love that
analogy just being guides, youknow.
(22:30):
And he actually says that hehas discovered through this
writing process what greatbusinesses stand for, what the
purpose of a great business is,and he puts it.
Can I just share with you thisline that he says?
It's a very interesting line.
He says the purpose of a greatcompany is to foster.
(22:55):
These words are reallyinteresting words that we don't
hear a lot.
He says to foster humanityflourishing.
And I love that line fosterhumanity flourishing.
And he doesn't say fosteringhumanity flourishing in a
particular way where we're allsort of out there.
It just says fostering humanityflourishing.
(23:18):
And to me it's a and then ifyou see your role as, for
example, a leader and all ofthose sorts of things, and then
you kind of get that's whyyou're here I mean it's a role
in the sense that you play onthe podcast you bring all these
(23:38):
people together with aparticular purpose to see things
in a very interesting way, in away that people feel
comfortable with.
So it's not a stressful thing.
And why would it be stressfulif we're going to say you know,
we have to live it every day, sowouldn't it be nice if we could
do that calmly through the day,wouldn't that be nice?
Speaker 1 (24:02):
Definitely.
If only we have more calmspaces, and this is one of them.
The idea I love that idea thatyou keep mentioning about it's
not about us, it's aboutsomething bigger, it's for all
of us and funnily, you remindedme of a song that I heard
recently, and the lyrics wereagain about that.
(24:23):
This person was saying everytime I walk, every time I run,
everything I do, it's always forus.
And I think that concept of forus is something we need so much
to get back to, and we talkabout it theoretically, but then
again, by actions, we seem togo the opposite way and we start
(24:43):
doing things for ourselves, atthe exclusion of others, and
then we need people to remind usit's for us, it's for us, you
know, that there is lessdivision.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
It is, and you probably know, I mean when you
said that you just opened up alittle channel for me, because
you may know that when I startedmaybe if I go back to 1981,
when I saw James Rowan, Istarted speaking and someone who
was kind of like a key mentorto speakers in Australia at that
time he's no longer with us,but his name is Ron Tacky and
(25:17):
Ron sort of took me under hiswing a little bit and said hey,
paul, you know, I think you'regoing to be great, so on and so
forth.
And he said can I ask you aquestion?
I said sure.
He said do you ever getbutterflies when you speak?
And I thought, oh, I bettertell him the truth.
I can't say, oh no, you arereally tough.
So I said, of course.
And he said oh, I'm really gladto hear that, because now that
(25:41):
you get the butterflies there'sa really interesting thing you
can do.
And I said what's that?
He said you can do something toget the butterflies flying in
formation.
I thought, whoa, it's such acool thing.
And for years, years, just youhere, you, you, a moment ago,
using two words, they justtriggered something with me,
(26:01):
because for years, in fact untilfive years ago, whenever I
would take the stage, um, therewould be, or, for that matter,
podcast.
When we used to do that, or youknow virtual things, I would
find a shiny object it could bea spoon, it could be, or you
know on virtually, I'm sort oflooking at myself anyway.
So, and before as I'm beingintroduced, I did it today as,
(26:27):
as I'm being introduced, I'msaying something under my breath
, I'm watching myself, and if wewere doing this five years ago,
I would have been saying them,them or them, or them, them to
get it off me.
Does that make sense?
And then, one very rainy sundayin singapore, I happened to
(26:52):
flip on the tv.
Very sunny sunday morning, itwas pouring rain and we had
planned to go out, but kidsswitched on the tv and there was
this from a nordic country Icannot remember which Nordic
country it was, but I doremember it was Nordic and it
(27:14):
had these beautiful visualswhere there was this woman.
It started off with this womansurrounded by a white infinity
screen, if you know what I mean.
And then, in the background,over her left shoulder, was this
biker.
I mean the ultimate rough,tough biker guy.
(27:36):
You know, like rings comingeverywhere ears, nose, mouth.
You know all of that sort ofstuff and you know really.
And this beautiful woman whowas at the center, just turned
around, saw this person.
It was clear she didn't knowhim, but just walked over and
held his hand and I thought,well, that's pretty interesting.
(27:58):
And then someone from the otherside who was dressed kind of
interestingly you would noticethis woman if he passed you, but
she had it was like a soft tonedresses and things and she
walked over and stayed there inthe middle and then she saw the
(28:18):
other two and then they all heldhands and so on, anyway, and
then this just went on and thewhole message from the Nordic
government was diversity isgreat.
That was the whole message.
And that day I remember thatafternoon I flew to Bali to give
a speech in Bali and I wouldnormally have said for them, for
(28:43):
them, for them, for them, forthem.
And then I realized, as well asthat commercial, that by saying
for them was actually putting abarrier between me and them.
Does that make sense?
And so that very afternoonbecame for us, for us, for us,
for us.
So that was a reallyinteresting trigger that you
(29:06):
gave me right there and it's agood way.
It's a good way to think aboutit, isn't?
Speaker 1 (29:10):
it.
Yes, yes, I just love how theseyou know how these dots join up
in such a divine manner.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
So back to what you said about butterflies, because
that's really important for ourintroverted listeners, the ones
who are deathly afraid ofspeaking, and public speaking in
particular, to know that it'snormal to have butterflies
before you speak.
In any kind of visibility workwe do, any form of putting
ourselves out there, there isthat little moment where you
(29:38):
feel unsafe and you're not sureof yourself.
But you said, the butterfliescan fly in formation.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
You can do things which gets them flying.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
Yes, to get them flying in formation, which is a
beautiful image to hold on to,and also the idea of that it's
not about me, it's not that I'mgoing to be.
It doesn't have to beperformative.
I don't have to be perfect, Idon't have to speak perfectly.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
No, you don't.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
And it's not even for them, it's for us.
So for them it's already onelevel removed, as in.
It's a Jim Rohn and Mr Stoffkind of analogy.
Yes, it is, yes, it is Puttingit on someone else, but then
when you think it's collectively, I'm a part of this collective,
we all are, we're all in ittogether, and what you're doing
(30:32):
yes, what you're doing inspeaking, is adding to the
collective wisdom, and so you'redoing something good.
You are planting a seed.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
You are indeed.
And I had a circumstance wheresomebody you know was standing
next to me who frequentlysuffers from what would, I think
, mostly be called impostersyndrome, and so what the heck
am I doing here, kind of thing.
You know, I'm looking aroundand the organizer had this
(31:06):
person, masami, as right.
Masami was next to me and shehad been speaking from a table
it was one of these things whereeverybody could get in and then
the host pointed at Masami andsaid Masami, we'd love to hear
your view.
And so Masami said you knowwhatever Masami said.
(31:26):
And then, you know, maybe aquarter of an hour later we were
leaving and the host said oh,masami, that was really, really
lovely.
And Masami said oh, are yousure?
Because you know being in thiscompany, meaning the company of
people there.
She said I have to tell you, themoment I walked in I had
(31:48):
imposter syndrome.
She said I have to tell you,the moment I walked in I had
imposter syndrome.
And she said it not quite asfortunately she was saying I had
imposter syndrome,no-transcript.
(32:18):
And she said well, yes, I did.
And he said what did you see?
And she said well, people weresort of leaning in and they
seemed to be enjoying where Iwas going and all of that kind
of stuff.
And he said next time when youthink you have imposter syndrome
(32:41):
, just make a little note not totake that outcome from the
people that you could have beenspeaking with.
I thought again so powerful.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
Yes, and that's a very good one for not just
introverts, but anyone who atany time has felt that they
didn't belong in the room ordidn't belong in that meeting,
at that table, because theythought everybody else was
superior to them in some way.
And perhaps it is a sign ofmodesty, humility, perhaps taken
(33:18):
a little bit to the extreme, tothink that I don't deserve to
be here, I'm not as smart as, orI'm not as competent as, or
these people are way moreexperienced, have a longer track
record, and so on.
But one thing that has alsohelped me in thinking about
imposter syndrome is also thatif somebody credible is telling
me that I've done a good job andI'm saying no, no, no, done a
(33:47):
good job, and I'm saying no, no,no, I'm sort of disagreeing, or
rather I'm making them wrongnow, which is not very, not very
polite or very respectful of meeither.
I'm saying that I their opinionis not accurate and I'm going to
hang on to my opinion that I'mnot good enough.
So when I thought about it thatway, it was easier to let go
and not focus so much Again.
Thinking of for us actuallyhelps with the imposter syndrome
(34:09):
too, because I think peoplefind people who are imperfect
very relatable, people who makea little mistake here and there.
Yes, who just show their humanside and reveal a little you
know little imperfections hereand there.
It makes other people relax too.
They can take a breath and say,ah, you know, if they are
(34:32):
taking the stage and they arelike that, well you know, I'm
okay, it's okay.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
And I think that can be taken to a very good extreme.
You know extremes are sometimesregarded as like bad things,
but that's why I say goodextreme, Because if let's go
back to the whole kind ofin-your-face thing, that is the
opposite of what we're talkingabout.
(35:02):
People really don't like beingin the face and let's just say
well, let me just put it thisway If you're in a position of
needing help for example, let'ssay, needing help to build a
(35:22):
business, needing help to dowhatever it was, needing help
with a's say needing help tobuild a business, needing help
to do whatever it was, needinghelp with a speech, needing help
to meet with someone needinghelp, all of those sorts of
things Then when you think aboutit people, are you listening to
us now and showing your life?
We are all more likely to wantto offer help to somebody who
(35:49):
kind of I wouldn't say is cryingout for it, but someone who
clearly has a good idea butmaybe needs that little extra
bit of help that we might beable to provide, able to provide
.
And so you know the, the wholeidea of sort of pumping yourself
up and all of that, it's I, I.
I think that's not.
You know what?
What do they say?
(36:09):
The whole fake it till you makeit thing.
No, I, that's.
That's very definitely notauthentic, and authenticity is
something that is really, reallyvalued.
Why?
Because it actually links totrust.
You know, know, I cannot trustyou if I think you're not
authentic, I can't.
The two just go together.
(36:30):
So that's one of the reasons whyI thought it was actually
important to you know, have theprivilege of talking with you
today and perhaps opening upsome thoughts that maybe don't
necessarily get opened up allthat often and be able to put
(36:52):
them in a way that people canrelate to and, as a result, have
some moments that really matter.
And, by the way, way just onthat, um, I'm not sure whether
I've I've mentioned to you that,with these moments and someone
(37:13):
and and this whole thing aroundperformance and all of that kind
of stuff that we've beentalking about, someone once said
to me that because when we,when we quote unquote, do in
some way, or when we kind of letourselves down or what, or we
think that's what happened right, that that memory is is really
(37:39):
not a very good memory.
And so this friend of mine someyears ago he said to me, paul,
he said always remember thatwhen your vision becomes more
powerful than your memory, yourfuture becomes more powerful
than your past.
And so it's that vision ofwhere we are going and where we
(38:02):
can actually take people on thisjourney as guides that becomes
very, very important in makingour world a better place that
made me really think for a fewmoments, there, where your
vision becomes more powerfulthan your memory, and then your
(38:23):
future becomes more powerfulthan your memory, and then your
future becomes more powerfulthan your past, of course, of
course forward-facing.
Speaker 1 (38:30):
So we learn from the past and we create something
better for the future.
Which then leads me to askwhere to next for B1G1, and what
do you see it becoming in thenext 10 years?
Speaker 2 (38:41):
Oh, what a great question that is.
Well, when Masami, in 2007,after that question, she asked
me she had been pondering B1G1,as it turns out, which for quite
some time, but this is thefirst time she released the idea
, you might say, the idea, youmight say.
(39:09):
And so she said uh, what thisis all about, she said, is
creating a world that's full ofgiving.
And I remember saying at thetime oh, that's, that's a pretty
big thing, the world that'sfull of giving.
And I think maybe people willlook at that and go well, that's
very nice to have, but it'simpossible, you know, and maybe
that way, people may not sort ofrealize where this can go, but
(39:36):
and the more I think about it, Ithink more and more people are
realizing that that is in factwhere we have to go.
You know, the world is the onlyway I can describe it as an
(39:56):
interesting place, right, andthere's so many things going on
that we look at and we go.
How on earth could they thinkthat?
How on earth could they thinkthat?
And someone else I was at ameeting in London, and this is
the real answer to that, by theway, and this poet, her name is
(40:22):
Sophia Saku, and this is likethree years ago and she's a
black poet and she came on thisstage where there's 150 of us in
the room and it's a prettyhigh-level gathering.
If I could name drop for aminute, I'm sitting next to Elon
(40:44):
Musk's business partner.
On the other side is thedirector of operations at the
BBC, and then next to her issomeone who said to me oh you
probably know, sir David, don'tyou, sir David, who?
And she said Attenborough, andI said, well, I'd love to
(41:06):
because I watch everything.
And she happened to be hisproducer.
So, anyway, it's a prettyinteresting gathering that would
meet to try and figure outwhere the world is going.
And so on the stage, if youlooked at the stage in London,
in london, central london, atthe barbican, actually in
central london, so on the, asyou look at it together with me
(41:29):
now, you, you look on on on ourleft hand side and and you see
this guy on a minute andproducing incredible choral
music and you feel like you'reat the center of the universe
and it's, it's amazing.
And then you see the on theright hand side, this cello
player with this, thesebeautiful deep strokes and
(41:52):
things right.
And then in the middle, you seethese two women, one of both of
whom are dressed in longflowing robes, and as the music
plays, one of them starts tosing these choral things, which
just puts you at the center ofthe universe.
More right then this blackwoman comes out and she has a
microphone stand sorry, a musicstand mixer.
(42:14):
So I think she's going to, youknow, do some sort of song.
But then I realize it takes me acouple of lines for me to get
it that she's actually readingfrom a specially commissioned
poem that she has written, andshe gets to the third line.
Here's the third line,delivered in this beautiful,
rich voice, and she says andthis is a message for all of us,
(42:39):
it really is for, she says, andthe reason it's for all of us,
it really is for all of us.
She said, and the reason it'sfor all of us, by the way, is we
all have moments like this, wedo.
She said have you ever noticedwhen things break, they open.
Isn't that such a brilliant wayof saying?
(43:06):
There's always somethingsomewhere that's brighter or not
more brighter is perhaps thewrong word but that you didn't
see whilst you had this thinghere.
You know there was nothing, butall of a sudden you just see
different possibilities as aresult of what's going on.
So I think that a lot of us areseeing those things every day.
Speaker 1 (43:30):
Yes, and you've reminded me, perhaps it was I
think it was Leonard Cohen thatsaid the cracks are where the
light gets in.
Speaker 2 (43:40):
There you go.
Speaker 1 (43:42):
So when something breaks, it opens.
It opens up new possibilities,it opens up a new perspective.
Maybe it creates some space,some air for something else to
come in something else to grow,and that is a very optimistic
way to finish off ourconversation today.
And how do people connect withyou and find out more about your
thoughts and find out moreabout B1G1?
Speaker 2 (44:03):
Oh, yes, yes, yes, okay.
Well, they can go from a B1G1perspective, which is a good
place to go and a goodperspective to have.
That's at B1G1.com.
And if you just search for me,paul Dunn, up there on LinkedIn,
I'm not the Mormon ministerthat I think is sort of
mescaline.
I'm a different Mormon minister.
(44:26):
That I think is sort ofmasculine.
I'm a different border.
So go have a look there and I'dbe thrilled to connect with you
in whatever way you feelappropriate.
So let's do that.
Speaker 1 (44:38):
Thank you so much, paul, for coming on the Quiet
Warrior podcast today.
If you enjoyed today's episode,be sure to subscribe to the
Quiet Warrior podcast and leaveus a five-star rating and review
to help us reach moreintroverts and quiet achievers
around the world.
See you on the next episode.
I'm so grateful that you'rehere today.
If you found this contentvaluable, please share it on
(45:00):
your social media channels andsubscribe to the show on your
favorite listening platform.
Together, we can help moreintroverts thrive To receive
more uplifting content like this.
Connect with me on Instagram atSerena Lo, quiet Warrior Coach.
Thank you for sharing your timeand your energy with me.
See you on the next episode.
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