December 12, 2023 • 45 mins
Are you aware of how powerful your intuition can be during childbirth? We invite you to join us on the latest episode of the Radiant Mission podcast, where we discuss the magnificence of physiological birth and the profound impact it has on the birthing experience. We're joined by Courtney Valdez, a fervent advocate for autonomous birth and a mother who shares her transformative journey from a medicalized hospital birth to an empowering birthing center experience.
Courtney's story is a testament to the power of making informed choices, and she passionately emphasizes the role of the Holy Spirit and our God-given intuition in birth. We don't shy away from sharing our personal encounters with medical interventions during childbirth and the effect on our connection with our newborns. Our reflections center around the significance of skin-to-skin contact for initiating milk production and our choice for a home birth for our next child. Together, we hope to inspire you to research and unlearn traditional birthing methods for a more natural and peaceful birth experience.
As we dive deeper into the episode, we explore the invaluable role of midwives in shaping your birth experience, discussing our experiences with interviewing them and understanding the importance of trust and rapport in this critical relationship. We touch upon the different types of midwives, their legal implications, and the concept of free birth. We end with a beautiful home birth story, a story of redemption that encapsulates a peaceful and supportive environment for a positive birth experience. Our hope is to empower all expecting mothers to remember their authority over their birth and to courageously explore unconventional paths. This episode is a celebration of birth, the lessons we learn from it, and the empowerment it brings.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
ари.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Welcome to the Radiant Mission podcast.
My name is Rebecca Tumey and Iam here with my amazing sister
and co-host, rachel Smith.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Hey everyone.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
We're on a mission to encourage and inspire others as
they're navigating through thislife and with the relationship
with Christ, and today we arecontinuing the conversation of
birth with Courtney Valdez.
She is a wife and a mother oftwo daughters under two, and she
is very passionate aboutpregnancy and birth, as they
have been catalysts for herpassion and love for autonomous
(01:03):
birth.
She shared last week about herexperience moving from a
medicalized hospital type ofbirth into a birthing center.
Birth that resulted in acontinued amount of
medicalization, let's say, endedup with her daughter staying in
the NICU unnecessarily and somebreastfeeding delays and things
(01:29):
like that.
And so today we're going tocontinue hearing from Courtney
about her story, what shelearned and, most importantly,
what the Lord taught her throughall of this, because he brought
her to a very different placethe second time around when she
had her second daughter.
So, courtney, thank you forbeing here with us again today
(01:51):
and for your willingness andopenness to share your story and
testimony.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
Yes, thank you, it's a long one.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
It's a good one and it's one that needs to be heard
and shared.
And to kind of recap what wetalked about last time, we make
often make choices because wedon't know that there are other
choices that we can make, andthat was something that I fell
into the first time and it'ssomething that you experienced
the first time with your birthwhere we kind of outsource our
(02:21):
autonomy to other people and weallow things, even when the Holy
Spirit or our intuition that hegave us is saying don't do that
, no, no, no, that's not right,something about this isn't right
, but we don't know how to sayno in those situations.
Or maybe it's just that we'renot in our thinking brains, as
we talked about, and we're notin a position to fight.
(02:43):
Where we're not in fight orflight, we're in.
I just had a baby like okay,whatever is going on around me,
I don't know.
And I think one of the thingsthat broke my heart the most
about what happened with yourfirst daughter and then forcing
her to go to the NICU is youliterally were still contracting
(03:07):
.
You know you're contracting fora while after you give birth
and you're literally havingthese contractions birthing your
placenta and in this post laborscenario and they're just doing
all of these things instead ofletting your baby be with you
the way that your baby needed to, and it just breaks my heart
(03:30):
that that happened.
But I also know that thatexperience God got you through
that experience for you to learnabout birth, and it sounds like
it set you on a mission and itset you on fire to say never
again.
I'm not going to allow my birthto be outsourced by other
(03:54):
people in the future.
Is that?
Speaker 1 (03:57):
the case.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
Yeah, absolutely it was, and I just I made a promise
to myself it was so.
It was right around when I hadhad her, there was a sermon at
church and our pastor wastalking about, you know, being a
victim or a victor, and I justknew that I wanted to come out
of that situation and, eventhough it's hard, take out all
(04:20):
the good and spread good,because I think way too many of
us were just spoken over in waysthat are not they're not from a
place of discernment or gracewhen we're pregnant or about
birth.
And I was just like, even thoughI experienced that, I am not
going to go tell everyone in theworld how traumatic and
(04:44):
terrible birth was None of thepeople that were there to save
me did they, you know, reallycreated all the problems that
had happened, and I just wantedwomen to know.
Like you know, our intuitionsare God given and we have to
start abiding by them.
And birth can be a beautifulthing when we make the right
(05:04):
choices and we honor God'sdesign.
Sometimes I sit back and wonderif God looks at us and is like
you imbeciles everything on asilver platter and you guys keep
doing weird stuff.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Yeah, yeah, I totally think that's what he thinks.
He's probably like Can youbelieve these clowns down here,
Can you believe?
Speaker 1 (05:26):
just just look in the Gospels how Jesus talks to his
disciples and gives a goodexample.
Like most of the time thedisciples were so dumb he
literally said it.
Several points like can you beso any more dense, and so, while
of course you know God is aloving father, you know,
(05:47):
sometimes we also look at ourkids like that.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Really, it actually reminds me I think we talked
about this a while back, rachelabout the correlation of Jesus
being the shepherd and us beingsheep and how sheep are.
Sheep are are like one of the.
They're very intelligent insome ways, but they're also very
silly creatures.
(06:13):
Like they'll fall in a pit andthey can't get out.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
They're not intelligent at all.
They're literally the dumbestcreatures.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
They're not intelligent at all.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
They have no sheep have no intelligence whatsoever.
That's why they follow eachother like they'll follow each
other into a ravine.
They won't even go off the pathif like dogs can run circles
around them.
Dogs are smart sheep.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
That's a good point and that's why dogs can herd
sheep, because dogs are evensmarter than sheep.
So when we take thatcorrelation and we correlate it
to ourselves and the fact thatthe Bible says that we are sheep
, I definitely think that Godlooks on us when it comes to
birth and says look at them,leading each other into the
(06:59):
ravine.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
And look at the disconnection that was.
That happened to me and mydaughter, to you, to countless
other women, and you go thedevils in the details.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
Sure.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
The devil loves the disconnection that we're
creating in women in thesemoments and then we sit back and
somehow, there again, we'resilly, we're going.
How are women so depressed andpostpartum?
Why are women so full of rage?
Why are women not succeeding inbreastfeeding?
Well, because thisdisconnection has been being is
just so generational betweenmothers.
(07:34):
Absolutely.
I just I see so much for lackof a better word demonic stuff
surrounding birth and, like somany people like I get it, are
quick to be like new age andbirth and I'm like holy cow,
like let's, let's look at thisfirst.
The disconnection we'recreating at birth is
legitimately demonic.
Let's face that and then facethe rest together.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Sure, the enemy is certainly trying to find his way
and find strongholds during thebirth experience, because is
there anything more beautifulthan the design that the Lord
created?
Why would he not want tosabotage it?
Why would he not want tosabotage the bond between a
mother and her child that setsthe mother and her child up for
(08:16):
the rest of their lives together?
I mean, it's the easiest.
It's honestly one of theeasiest things places,
experiences that he could crawlhis way into to destroy.
You know, it seems like itwould only make sense that he
would.
He's here to seek and destroyand to separate us from the Lord
(08:40):
, and that's certainly a placeto do that.
You know that I've saidsomething along these lines,
that there's something to it.
I see it in the birth system.
I see it in the modern day waythat birth works, that the Lord
has designed our bodies to growin birth babies, in the peace
(09:01):
and quiet and harmony ofwhatever hole we decide to go
into when it's our time to givebirth.
Yet we've made it into aspectacle.
I mean, what do they call the?
Or Don't they call it a theater?
In some scenarios you go into atheater to get cut open, and
(09:22):
that's not how God intendedbabies to come into this earth.
Now, granted, there are 2% ofscenarios where some assistance
may be of need, but that's notthe rest of the 98% of women.
Yet we've made the 100%, the 2%, and we've retreat birth as if
(09:49):
it is a medical disease thatneeds to be managed and babies
coming out as if they're flawedbefore they're even given an
opportunity to live.
So that's what you know.
Kind of where we left with yourstory was you got, we were in
(10:10):
the car and your milk came inand when you told me that it was
like clicked, just like inbirth, we can't really open when
we're uncomfortable, and I knowyou had that midwife that you
are uncomfortable with.
I had a doctor that I wasreally uncomfortable with and
(10:31):
every time she would come in theroom I feel like my cervix was
like closing.
I think that the same thinghappened with your milk.
You know you were under so muchpressure in the situation of
your daughter going into thisNICU during COVID.
There was so much stress.
She was taken away from you,your body wasn't functioning the
way that it should.
(10:51):
You were under pressure andstress, and then, as soon as you
are out of the clutches of theenemy, that clutches of the
medical system.
Your body did what it knew itneeded to do.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
And it opened up in the floodgates of milk.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
And that's a beautiful thing.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
We spent so much time at home I joke, we were all
naked.
We just wanted the skin to skin, we just wanted to in whatever
way we could.
We couldn't get those momentsback, but we wanted to go home
and start reinstating that ofjust being so gentle with our
daughter and really just lovingher as much as we could.
(11:34):
And that is what I wanted to beso gentle when I changed her
diaper God forbid because shehad been poked for so many days
or whatever.
We just really wanted to loveher all we could.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
I think we all relate to the nakedness of those early
days with babies Like, nope,just skin to skin and as much as
you can, because you know howgood it is for the baby, but
also for the connection betweenmother and baby and milk.
It's amazing that skin to skinso a mother's naked chest
(12:08):
against a baby's naked cheststimulates milk production.
Isn't that a miracle?
Speaker 3 (12:14):
Yes, oh, it's like God's mind right.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
Yeah, he totally did.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
That's why I say anyone that could experience
pregnancy and birth like to comeout of it and not believe in
God.
I just I can't relate, becauseI had never felt so closer to
him and been so led to dive evendeeper in the word once.
I was, like you know, allowedthis honor of being a mother.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Absolutely I feel the same way.
It reignited something new inme as well after my first, that
it was like this is amazing.
Even during pregnancy it comeson as you're getting those
ultrasounds and you're like, ohmy gosh, this is a miracle, this
is amazing.
And when you realize how earlybabies develop, that's another
(13:01):
thing that I don't want to getinto the whole pro life, pro
choice abortion conversation.
I'll just say it.
Really, I mean I already had myopinion on it prior to, but it
really solidified it extrabecause it's like this baby is
fully developed and it's 20weeks.
It's fully developed.
(13:22):
Granted, there's continuationof continuing growth, but it's
amazing to me.
I was amazed.
I had a miscarriage after Benand this baby was six weeks.
That's it six weeks.
And if you look at those apps,I mean they're like it's like a
pee pod, right, and I found thebaby in my pad and it had a
(13:46):
little nose already, its eyeswere starting to form and it had
a cord and a placenta at sixweeks and to me that was just so
incredible, like it's amazingthat the creation that God has
created in these babies justgrowing inside of our wombs is
beautiful.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
It's like a mustard seed.
What's that it's like a mustardseed.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Yes, yes, a mustard seed, exactly.
So then, what happened afterthat?
You had your first daughter,and then you guys decided we're
gonna go for this again.
You learned before you what wasthe next step.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
Yeah, I think that we were just totally united
because of that as a family,Like my husband and I were
brought closer together thanever before.
We could have taken that to madat each other, had distrust in
one another.
I could have been angry, but wereally just leaned into one
another and we were so in love,you know, and we were like maybe
(14:53):
we weren't thinking clearly butwe were like we want another
one and I was just so like hellbent into researching
physiological birth and kind ofjust starting to unlearn and
understand what had happened tome, and I just knew we weren't
gonna do that again.
And my husband and I had saidlike we will be doing this at
(15:14):
home forever, and I just started.
Your husband said that, or?
Speaker 2 (15:18):
you said that.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
Both of us, both of you.
Okay, we finished each other'ssentences.
You know, I went through thatheated in a different way, but
he also.
He had some things to heal fromtoo, and we just knew that we
weren't gonna do that again, wewouldn't be in those walls again
.
And so I got pregnant fivemonths postpartum.
(15:39):
My daughters are 14 monthsapart.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
I love it.
I'm pregnant right now and ourBen in the next few.
We're gonna be 15 months, soI'm right there.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
Yes, it's so fun.
It's fun, it's so amazing tolike give your child like such a
beautiful gift of a sibling.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
It is, it's beautiful , it's the best, yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
And I don't know, like, once you have a baby, one
time your body's like I've donethis.
You know that's cool too.
Yeah, I just startedresearching it.
I knew I wanted to do a homebirth and I did want support and
you know, there's like thiswhole like dogma around, like
wanting support is bad and Ilike I am fully endorsed and
(16:23):
support and love free birth andunassisted birth, but it wasn't
where my heart was at the timeand I just I like knew I was
like there has to be a woman outthere who can simply hold the
space for me.
Simply hold the space, like Ihear about these fairies that
are out there, you know, and I'mgonna find them.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
Unicorns exist somewhere.
Speaker 3 (16:44):
Yeah, unicorns, and I kind of created some of these
questions I wanted to ask and Ireally just like I set on this
mission of I will lean into myintuition, my God given
intuition, and I will abide,because it's one thing to have
the Holy Spirit, you know,talking to you and around you,
but to abide by it is anotherthing.
(17:05):
And I just was like I will runevery single thing by God and
his will will be done, but I amnot gonna have not listened to
him again, you know, and likenow with this daughter, that was
very tangible and in front ofme and we had gone through that.
It was like I am the protector.
I am the protector of myselfand my children and like this is
(17:27):
so far beyond me you know, thedecisions that you're making for
birth.
It's about your baby too.
So I interviewed a lot ofmidwives and I mean usually like
within the first, even some ofthem like I heard their voice
and I'm like, nope, that's howserious.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
I got this time.
And that's how it is.
When you interview, though, youknow within the first 15
seconds if you're gonna clickwith that person or not.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
One of them.
I'm so happy I had theinterview on the phone, because
my face would have just given itall away she was like yeah,
well, I'm still requiring masksand I limit the amount of people
you can have at your home birth.
And you know I'm only doinghome birth three days a week
because the rest of the week I'min the hospital and I was like
bye, you're like okay, great,thanks so much.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
Have a nice day, goodbye.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
Why, though, like kind of tying into like our
conversation today is midwiferyisn't necessarily answer.
It is really being informed andpretty clear on who you were
allowing in your birth space.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
You're making a great point, because I think
something that it's importantfor everybody to understand is
that a licensed midwife has toreport to the state.
They still have to abide byrules and they still what was
the word you had used they're inconference with the hospitals.
(18:50):
They still consult with doctorsat hospitals and have to abide
by.
Oftentimes, even if they do aconsult with a doctor and the
doctor says do or don't do this.
If they don't listen, theycould get in legal trouble Legal
trouble.
So it's something that I didn'tknow either until my midwife
(19:13):
dropped me because of thesepotential legal ramifications.
But it's important to know.
And there are other types ofmidwives birth workers, the
underground railroad ofmidwifery that exists.
There are a lot of options, buttell us more about kind of what
(19:36):
you continue to do as you weresearching for a midwife.
Speaker 3 (19:39):
So I had just kind of learned about free birth and an
assisted birth and it wasreally interesting to me and I
just thought like that's amazing, I would love that, but I also-
.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
I thought that those people were crazy.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
After my experience it was like there was so much
intervention yeah, we were alsobroken that it was like what do
you have to lose?
Speaker 1 (20:02):
Yeah, exactly, it's true, yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
So, even though I wasn't necessarily ready for
that, yeah, even though itwasn't your path.
And I still were able toappreciate it.
I landed on.
I'm gonna ask midwives, I'mgonna ask them what they think
about free birth and unassistedbirth, and that's gonna give me
such a beautiful idea of whothese women are Smart.
And it was so.
That's how you know what wasspirit led.
I can remember walking into mymidwives, just where she was at,
(20:29):
and I was like, oh, it's justfelt, it felt like home and just
immediately speaking to her andjust how she talked to me.
She had even brought upunassisted birth before I even
asked.
It was truly just a mash madein heaven.
And I kind of like, in anutshell, laid out kind of my
(20:49):
experience with my firstdaughter, what I didn't want,
what I wanted, my expectation ofthe person who would be witness
to my birth and walk with me inmy pregnancy.
Like I knew I wanted no testing, no, I did one ultrasound and
it was like, are you cool withthis?
Are you not like let's just layit all right out right now and
let's really get serious,because I don't want you to say
(21:10):
yes and then, at 40 weeks, youknow, get weird?
Speaker 1 (21:14):
And.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
I mean she still technically could have, but like
I really just felt like she was.
She was a licensed midwife thatwas with women for women and I
can't imagine the things thatshe goes through that maybe I
don't know about when you're.
(21:34):
You know you're treading thosewaters, which I'm sure aren't
easy because the majority ofthem don't.
But I had a superstraightforward pregnancy.
Like I think about thispregnancy and I think about this
birth and it's like it's ashort story because it was so
straightforward.
You know our appointments, likeour.
I did go into my prenatalappointments.
(21:56):
It was completely optional todo but I enjoyed the
conversation so much.
She actually had a student andwe would all sit around and have
tea and talk and nine times outof 10.
It was not about a baby, it wasjust about life and birth and
we would talk about like a birthvideo we saw or something we
saw on Instagram, or you know,she gave me the book, she lent
(22:18):
me the book, or Gazz McBurth,and like we would just talk
about what we had read.
It was.
It was like a little girl'scircle, you know, just like the
friendship I needed because Ialso had no other women in my
life who I could go be ecstaticabout birth with.
Well, I like, looked for it, youwere building a true
relationship with her.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
It wasn't just about the checking the boxes.
You guys were building a bondbetween the two of you.
Speaker 3 (22:43):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
I think that's what a good midwives their goal is is
to have a bond and a realfriendship and relationship
established so that then whenyou're going into the birth,
that you actually have a mutualtrust for each other and that
you know what each other expectsor wants from each other.
(23:04):
I interviewed a lot of midwivestoo, and my biggest question
was always what do you do withmoms who have a breech baby?
Because that was my previousexperiences and most of them are
like, oh well, we transfer tothe hospital because we don't do
that.
But one of them who did have abreech experience she said I get
(23:24):
, I get moms calling me all thetime because they're 39 weeks
and their babies breach and theywant to transfer care to me
because they heard that I willdeliver a breech baby.
But I'm not going to take on amom like that when we don't have
any relationship established.
Like it's different when it'sfrom you know week, you know the
(23:46):
first trimester, through thewhole thing, that we have a
relationship established andthat bond formed, that then we
can trust each other.
But to just take any mom in adesperate situation, it can go
really bad and I think that'skind of what's reflected in your
previous experience of havingthese rotating midwives.
(24:06):
You never really get to knowany of them that well, or maybe
you did one of them and that'snot the one that you end up
getting, so I think that that'sreally important in reflecting
what you experienced the secondtime that you were able to
become friends with even thestudent midwife too.
I think that's great.
(24:27):
We're still friends for thisday.
Yeah, that's awesome, yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
There's a camaraderie there that you were able to
build, so that's awesome.
We're talking tea together,talking about what's important,
and it sounds like, when thetime came, you know you had a
team of people that trusted youjust as much as you trusted them
.
Speaker 3 (24:49):
Oh yeah she.
I will never forget this andI've said this so many times.
One time she was like I don'tthink I'm going to make it to
your birth.
You're going to do great, andit was just.
It was like if you want to doan assisted, that is great.
If you want to call me, that isgreat, but if I am not there
for whatever circumstance, itdoesn't matter.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
You've got this.
Speaker 3 (25:09):
You are the best for your baby.
You know, because I did, likeone of the things that I
struggled with the wholepregnancy was what?
What if my baby doesn't breathe?
And it was like that was solike nailed into me from that
first birth that that is what Ihad to sit on and pray on
(25:30):
constantly, and like I wouldtalk with her through it and she
was like maybe it's going tocome around.
You're the best thing for yourbaby in those moments and you
will know if things aren'tgetting better.
You know things like that.
It was just.
It was so nice to even be ableto like work through fears and
(25:50):
move, move forward no-transcript.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
Yeah, so when did you go on to labor the second time?
Was it the same amount of time,or did you go over, or how did
that go?
Speaker 3 (26:03):
So first baby was 39 and five and it was 23 hours
start to finish.
Second baby I was 40 and onewhich, like everyone around me,
was like I had told people mydue date, never doing it again.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
Yeah, always add like three weeks to it, right.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
And everyone in my town is being induced Like I
mean, honestly everyone at thehospital right now is like 39
weeks.
So if you see a 40 week orbeyond, it is a sight to be seen
.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
Right, it's great.
Yes.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
So I was 40 and one and I had this time.
I took off work at 37 weeksbecause, you, just like I,
wanted to lean into thatslowness.
And I also wanted the time withmy daughter Because I knew I
didn't ever worry about thespace to love another one, but I
wanted to savor the lastmoments of her and I.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (26:56):
So we got that time to just be at home and hang out
and also I'm a hairstylist,though like approaching birth I
didn't want, unfortunately, tohear all the trauma stories,
because that's really like doingwhat I do has really opened my
eyes to just the amount of womenwho have positive experiences
(27:17):
to the latter and, like I wouldyou know, proudly share that I
was having a home birth andthere at the end it was like,
nope, I am guarding, we areputting a protective bubble.
I'm taking a word, don't eventalk about it, yep, and I just
wanted to like lean into myfamily.
So, 41 I had woke up and like Istarted having those really
like low dull cramps and I waslike this is it.
And I went to the bathroom andwent pee and I had a blood tinge
(27:40):
mucus and I was like oh, itreally is it.
But my first labor was longer,which I think 20, even, I think
up to 30 hours is still like avariation of normal for a first
time mom.
So maybe it wasn't long, it wasjust normal long to me.
So I was like we'll probably bedoing this for a while and
things were so they weren't eventimeable throughout the day,
but they were different.
(28:00):
I will say that like I madeJordan stay home from work and
then he was like well, why don'tyou time them?
You know he was, I think hemore so after our last
experience, once things startedkicking off, you could kind of
see like not necessarily worry,but he was more responsive and I
started timing them and he waslike they're timeable, you
should reach out to the midwife.
(28:21):
I was like I'll reach out to mymidwife when I'm ready and I
think at 830 things had reallypicked up more so that they were
timeable.
They were intense.
I wanted to breathe throughthem a little bit more.
I was still up and walkingaround.
We got our daughter down, stevieat 830.
I like gave her her finalkisses, you know, and like
(28:42):
knowing that that was the lasttime I would kiss her, of her
being my only, and I went in andI had had my birth space ready
since like 37 weeks because itwas just, it was like a fun
thing for me to do and I hadlike the cheesy twinkle lights
and all the things because itwas my birth and I was going to
have it.
However, the hell I wanted it.
I know everybody hates othertwinkle lights, but I'm like do
(29:03):
they?
Speaker 2 (29:03):
I thought everybody was into that I don't know.
Speaker 3 (29:06):
There's so much like dogma around anything anymore.
I'm like I love what we want tolove.
I'm not even supposed to watchbirth videos anymore.
I'm like, oh my God, I can'ttalk to a dramatic bird.
No, I can't talk about goodbirth.
Where's the room for anythinganymore?
Yeah yeah, I started feeling atmy tub and, honestly, what was
(29:28):
crazy about this birth was Ididn't float away into La La
Land Like I really I had.
I had really prayed on, like Iwant to feel it all.
But I want to be present,because in my first birth, like
I said, I kind of went away tolabor land and I didn't want
that, like I wanted to be reallypresent.
And what was so crazy and why?
(29:48):
I think Jordan was like we'renot going to have a baby until
the morning was even well intotransition.
I could come out of it and belike so how's everybody's day?
It was just so, but I thinkbecause I wasn't, I would never
worry about getting in a car or,you know, getting checked or
all those things, like it wasjust us at home.
There was nowhere to be, it was.
It was so amazing.
(30:09):
And things did get reallyintense once Jordan came in from
putting Stevie down I want tosay it was like 1030 and he was
like we're going to call themidwife and I was like, okay,
that sounds good, we can let herknow.
And so she heard me havingcontractions over the phone and
she was like if Courtney wantsme to come over, not you.
And so she ended up headingover and once she got there, I
(30:33):
think I went into transitionbecause I was over talking to
absolutely anybody through thosewaves and my water hadn't
broken.
I think I had said with myfirst labor my water broke 10
hours before I had her and thatwas really interesting, just
like maybe that attributed to itbeing kind of less intense.
Maybe my dilla was right, Idon't know.
(30:53):
I was in and out of the tub onmy own accord.
I labored a lot on the toilet.
It was super intense, but Ijust kept, you know, attributing
that intensity to like working,like I could really fill her
coming down when I was on thetoilet and I wanted to make sure
I was like peeing and all thethings and I had had like one
(31:15):
really grumpy contraction andthat was the only time, once my
midwife had gotten there, thatshe said anything.
She's like maybe you'd reallyenjoy the tub, because she had
heard me get grumpy and I thinkshe knew like she's about to
have this baby.
So I got in the tub and thenthe guttural just fetal ejection
reflex just washed over me andher and the assistant were at
(31:39):
the complete opposite end of theroom just watching, you know,
and bearing witness, and thingsgot intense.
I could genuinely, I couldliterally feel my daughter
maneuvering in my birth canaland she was like why don't you
reach and see if you could fillyour baby?
The next was that she said andI reached and I could fill her
(32:00):
head, and then seconds, my waterbursts in my hands and then I
was like, oh, she's coming and Icould she moved again, could
fill her head and I was like,okay, I don't want to rush this.
Even in that moment I was like Idon't want this to be over, so
I really like breathe through it.
And then, in one morecontraction she was out and I
just had like this moment.
(32:21):
At that point I think they hadturned the lights on again
because I had wanted it dark andshe just got to stand there
still under the water for a bit,just completely.
I left alone, you know, and Igot to take her out of me, fill
her and merge and then take herright up to me and all by myself
, and no one was touching her.
(32:43):
She had a quarter round herneck and I was able to take it
off.
She was a mucusy and I removedher mucus and no one was telling
me that I couldn't touch herthe way that I instinctively
wanted to.
Gosh, I'm sorry.
No, don't apologize, You've gotme like my husband was there,
(33:03):
you know, just touching me andawe, and I think he was like Cal
, like look at how this unfoldswhen it's completely left alone
In my midwife just looked overand she was like good job, you
know, like I'm so proud of you.
And I just looked at Jordan.
I was like that's how it'ssupposed to be, you know, and
(33:24):
even in that moment, like you,you're not ready for a
redemptive birth to then bringup so much more emotion, knowing
like you just wish that yourfirst have that.
You know, it's like thisconcept, it's like this double
edged sword and I felt all thosethings in that moment.
But then I was just like justflooded with love of this, like
(33:46):
little cheesy vernix baby.
He was gurgling a little too,and that's what was like so
interesting about the midwifewas she was still way away, as
she was working through thatmucus and, you know, really
starting to come about herself,and we were just completely
allowed to navigate thatourselves.
(34:09):
It's been beautiful 15 minutesafter I was having contractions
and I was like I'm gonna, Ithink I need to deliver my
placenta.
Delivered my placenta.
We hung out in the pool for alittle bit longer.
They were like admiring myplacenta.
I mean they're just amazing.
They're like complimenting me abunch.
I'm like I just want to givebirth every day.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
That's so beautiful, what a redemptive experience
after such a hands on experience.
And I understand where you'recoming from when you say that it
brings up a lot of emotionsabout the first, because it's
like I wish I would have hadthis with my first.
But I think sometimes, you know, those negative experiences are
our lesson and the futureexperiences are us putting those
(34:56):
lessons and knowledge and whatwe've learned into place.
And sometimes we can't get tothat place unless we've had the
hard lesson.
You know, and I think thatthat's what I'm seeing in your
story.
That's just so relatable and sobeautiful is that you know you
went through something tough andyou came out the other side
(35:17):
even stronger and then youcontinue to grow from there and
you knew what to look for.
And these, these ladies soundwonderful, the way that they
just sat back and left you aloneand they let you catch your own
not let you, I mean to say letyou, but you got to catch your
own baby, which is how it shouldbe.
Speaker 3 (35:37):
Absolutely, I have this thing.
It's a me thing.
I think because of my firstbirth, that when I'm like
witnessing this beautiful birthonline, I do love watching them
and I see the mother fullycapable.
And then it's like there's amidwife's hand and she's got to
like in there even for fiveseconds and just like get a
little touch.
You did not need to do that.
(35:59):
So unnecessary right, because Iwould imagine even that body,
that baby's body, wouldrecognize a touch that's not
from its mother.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
Well, yeah, and it's like they ask for, or they
should and it sounds like yourfirst word asking for consent to
touch us, the mother.
They should also be askingconsent to touch the baby,
because that is an autonomoushuman being and, as the mother,
we are the gatekeepers of thatbaby until they can speak for
themselves.
So you know, nobody needs to begrabbing their hands in there
(36:32):
to touch anyone without askingpermission.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
I know that you watch a lot of birth videos, courtney
, did you see the one where itwas?
She was?
I don't, she wasn't.
I think she was speakingPortuguese, so I didn't.
I saw the translation, but Ididn't know exactly what she was
saying.
But she was having the baby andthey kept touching her and she
(36:58):
was screaming at them stoptouching me, stop touching me.
And they're like no, we have totouch you or your baby could
die.
She's like stop touching me.
Those types of videos make meso viscerally, like angry and
upset for these moms, so likeget your hands off.
Or the woman who was having ahospital birth.
This was one that's beencirculating over the last couple
(37:21):
of weeks.
She's having her hospital birthand she was standing up and she
was leaning against the bed andthis nurse, or whatever she was
I don't know, she's a nurse,she was.
I think she was a nurse becausethey were saying her midwife,
your midwife's not going to makeit.
You need to, you need to stop.
And she just was a tuning themout.
I was so proud of her.
She just tuning them out.
(37:41):
And they're like you know,you're not complete.
You can't, you can't give birth.
No, you're not complete andshe's just like not listening.
Not listening.
They're like you can't givebirth like that, Don't push, you
have to like at least lay downor something.
And she just stood there andshe delivered the baby herself,
but this lady kept putting herhands all over her.
Speaker 3 (38:03):
You know, you know and.
I just like how to call thatwhat that is, and it's abuse,
right, because we teach our kidsfrom a really early age about
consent and that follows intoevery area of our life, and one
is enough.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
Absolutely.
I couldn't agree more.
This goes into, you know, Ifeel very strongly that I think
that the vaginal exams that wereceive as teenagers and as
young women are kind of groomingin this way, and grooming for
this, these birth experienceswhere they're going to stick
(38:38):
whatever they want to stick upthere or cut whatever they want
to cut.
They're just, they're groomingus for their comfort and the
things that they want to be ableto do, versus, hey, how about
we don't put anything in thereor touch anything unless you
know something needs to be done?
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (39:00):
Absolutely and, I think, telling, like in my
situation, if I wouldn't havehad the wherewithal, or, you
know, my faith of even when mybaby emerged from me I'm not
smart enough of how to touch her, you know.
And then you, just you're likeheedlessly abiding by your
midwives, your I don't know yourpediatrician, everyone else
(39:21):
it's like no, you are innatelydesigned by God to know how to
mother, how to give birth, howto do it.
All you know and these peopledon't know because they've never
been witness.
Yeah, you know, they havepeople go to them who are like
just do this for me.
(39:41):
So they, I truly believe theyjust don't even know how to
support something like that.
Speaker 2 (39:47):
Yeah, I think that they, a lot of these Western
medicine practices probablyreally miss the Twilight days.
Remember they used to put momsin Twilight sleep back in our
grandparents era.
They just put them out.
I mean, what better patientcould you have than someone
who's unconscious?
Speaker 3 (40:05):
and can't talk back.
Have you guys ever read achildbirth without fear by grant
Grant Lee, dick Reed?
No, I got to check that out.
He started in like the late1800s, talking about how, like
when birth got extremelymedicalized, and he talks about
all of those early interventionsand you know how soon to be,
(40:25):
like the Twilight sleep and craplike that how they stopped
because it was so dangerous andthat's why we call it practicing
medicine.
Somehow we're not coming to oursenses about the interventions
we're having now, even thoughour outcomes are gruesome.
Speaker 2 (40:41):
Yeah, absolutely so I'd love to ask you a couple of
questions about your experience,and the first is what was the
biggest lesson that you learnedfrom your two experiences?
Speaker 3 (40:56):
I feel like it's my motto now.
It's to lean into my intuitionand abide by it, and to not not
be scared to take roads lesstraveled.
And even if I feel alone, I'mnot scared to be alone because,
you know, god's always with me.
Speaker 2 (41:15):
That's beautiful.
It's great Now if you could goback and change something, would
you?
This is a tricky question.
Speaker 3 (41:24):
No, I don't think I would.
You know, I think that, as hardas it was to live through, I
think that those hard things arelike our biggest lessons, you
know, like to get through hardthings like, and those hard
things take us to the betterthings, kind of.
You know, like, of course, inmy perfect world, without
(41:47):
knowing that through hard thingscome like so much wisdom, right
, like I wouldn't be able to gothrough that and have the wisdom
that I have now.
Speaker 2 (41:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (41:55):
So I don't think I would change it.
Speaker 2 (41:56):
Yeah, I totally get that.
It's hard, but it shapes usright.
It makes us who we are.
Now, what is something that youwould want to share with an
expecting or soon to be mom,whether it's her first time or
her fourth time?
What do you want moms to knowabout birth?
Speaker 3 (42:20):
I'm going to try and tie it into my experience that
you are the authority over yourbirth.
You know you are so beautifullyconnected to that baby and your
womb that you know you know inyour heart the right places to
be to give birth.
Do not settle for birth.
Where you give birth, you know.
(42:42):
If you're looking for a happymedium for the sake of other
people's comfort levels, that'sreally something I encourage you
to explore, because birth isnot something we should be
settling for and how we birthsticks with us forever.
If the fight feels hard whichfor most of us it is you've got
to ask yourself what can I livewith?
(43:04):
What decisions I make can Ilive with?
And kind of how we said, Ithink, in the first episode of
when we're picking our hard,what's harder, you know, firing
providers standing my ground,sometimes standing alone, or
healing from a traumatic birth,potentially.
Speaker 1 (43:23):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (43:27):
Courtney, this has been amazing.
Was there anything else thatyou wanted to share with
listeners today?
Speaker 3 (43:33):
Oh, I think that's it .
I hope that my experience justhelps people out there and that
you know, if ever they wanted toask me questions, they can,
because I didn't suffer fornothing and if I can help people
through that, I would love to.
Speaker 2 (43:53):
Awesome.
And yeah, you can find Courtneyon her blog,
southwestbirthworkercom, or onInstagram at
southwestbirthworkercom, and Iwill add these links along with
the books that she mentionedinto the show notes, so be sure
to refer to those if you want toget a quick link to access her.
But thank you, courtney, forbeing with us.
(44:14):
Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 3 (44:16):
Thank you guys.
Thank you so much for having aplatform for Christian moms and
you know talking aboutuncomfortable truths.
Speaker 2 (44:24):
Yeah, of course I mean.
This is what the Lord iscalling us to do to do the hard
things right, and we hope thatit helps others.
That's our whole goal.
So thank you for tuning intoday, for being on this journey
with us.
If you'd like to follow alongoutside the podcast, you can do
so on Instagram, Facebook and onYouTube at the Radiant Mission.
And today we're going to closewith Courtney's favorite Bible
(44:45):
verse.
It is 2 Timothy 1 7.
And she mentioned that shefinds it most resonating to
motherhood and all of the thingsinside of it.
She says for the spirit Godgave us does not make us timid,
but gives us power, love andself discipline.
And we are wishing you aradiant week and we will see you
(45:06):
next time.
Bye, guys, We'll see you later.
My people say Bye, Bye.
ари.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Welcome to the Radiant Mission podcast.
My name is Rebecca Tumey and Iam here with my amazing sister
and co-host, rachel Smith.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Hey everyone.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
We're on a mission to encourage and inspire others as
they're navigating through thislife and with the relationship
with Christ, and today we arecontinuing the conversation of
birth with Courtney Valdez.
She is a wife and a mother oftwo daughters under two, and she
is very passionate aboutpregnancy and birth, as they
have been catalysts for herpassion and love for autonomous
(01:03):
birth.
She shared last week about herexperience moving from a
medicalized hospital type ofbirth into a birthing center.
Birth that resulted in acontinued amount of
medicalization, let's say, endedup with her daughter staying in
the NICU unnecessarily and somebreastfeeding delays and things
(01:29):
like that.
And so today we're going tocontinue hearing from Courtney
about her story, what shelearned and, most importantly,
what the Lord taught her throughall of this, because he brought
her to a very different placethe second time around when she
had her second daughter.
So, courtney, thank you forbeing here with us again today
(01:51):
and for your willingness andopenness to share your story and
testimony.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
Yes, thank you, it's a long one.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
It's a good one and it's one that needs to be heard
and shared.
And to kind of recap what wetalked about last time, we make
often make choices because wedon't know that there are other
choices that we can make, andthat was something that I fell
into the first time and it'ssomething that you experienced
the first time with your birthwhere we kind of outsource our
(02:21):
autonomy to other people and weallow things, even when the Holy
Spirit or our intuition that hegave us is saying don't do that
, no, no, no, that's not right,something about this isn't right
, but we don't know how to sayno in those situations.
Or maybe it's just that we'renot in our thinking brains, as
we talked about, and we're notin a position to fight.
(02:43):
Where we're not in fight orflight, we're in.
I just had a baby like okay,whatever is going on around me,
I don't know.
And I think one of the thingsthat broke my heart the most
about what happened with yourfirst daughter and then forcing
her to go to the NICU is youliterally were still contracting
(03:07):
.
You know you're contracting fora while after you give birth
and you're literally havingthese contractions birthing your
placenta and in this post laborscenario and they're just doing
all of these things instead ofletting your baby be with you
the way that your baby needed to, and it just breaks my heart
(03:30):
that that happened.
But I also know that thatexperience God got you through
that experience for you to learnabout birth, and it sounds like
it set you on a mission and itset you on fire to say never
again.
I'm not going to allow my birthto be outsourced by other
(03:54):
people in the future.
Is that?
Speaker 1 (03:57):
the case.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
Yeah, absolutely it was, and I just I made a promise
to myself it was so.
It was right around when I hadhad her, there was a sermon at
church and our pastor wastalking about, you know, being a
victim or a victor, and I justknew that I wanted to come out
of that situation and, eventhough it's hard, take out all
(04:20):
the good and spread good,because I think way too many of
us were just spoken over in waysthat are not they're not from a
place of discernment or gracewhen we're pregnant or about
birth.
And I was just like, even thoughI experienced that, I am not
going to go tell everyone in theworld how traumatic and
(04:44):
terrible birth was None of thepeople that were there to save
me did they, you know, reallycreated all the problems that
had happened, and I just wantedwomen to know.
Like you know, our intuitionsare God given and we have to
start abiding by them.
And birth can be a beautifulthing when we make the right
(05:04):
choices and we honor God'sdesign.
Sometimes I sit back and wonderif God looks at us and is like
you imbeciles everything on asilver platter and you guys keep
doing weird stuff.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Yeah, yeah, I totally think that's what he thinks.
He's probably like Can youbelieve these clowns down here,
Can you believe?
Speaker 1 (05:26):
just just look in the Gospels how Jesus talks to his
disciples and gives a goodexample.
Like most of the time thedisciples were so dumb he
literally said it.
Several points like can you beso any more dense, and so, while
of course you know God is aloving father, you know,
(05:47):
sometimes we also look at ourkids like that.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Really, it actually reminds me I think we talked
about this a while back, rachelabout the correlation of Jesus
being the shepherd and us beingsheep and how sheep are.
Sheep are are like one of the.
They're very intelligent insome ways, but they're also very
silly creatures.
(06:13):
Like they'll fall in a pit andthey can't get out.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
They're not intelligent at all.
They're literally the dumbestcreatures.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
They're not intelligent at all.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
They have no sheep have no intelligence whatsoever.
That's why they follow eachother like they'll follow each
other into a ravine.
They won't even go off the pathif like dogs can run circles
around them.
Dogs are smart sheep.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
That's a good point and that's why dogs can herd
sheep, because dogs are evensmarter than sheep.
So when we take thatcorrelation and we correlate it
to ourselves and the fact thatthe Bible says that we are sheep
, I definitely think that Godlooks on us when it comes to
birth and says look at them,leading each other into the
(06:59):
ravine.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
And look at the disconnection that was.
That happened to me and mydaughter, to you, to countless
other women, and you go thedevils in the details.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
Sure.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
The devil loves the disconnection that we're
creating in women in thesemoments and then we sit back and
somehow, there again, we'resilly, we're going.
How are women so depressed andpostpartum?
Why are women so full of rage?
Why are women not succeeding inbreastfeeding?
Well, because thisdisconnection has been being is
just so generational betweenmothers.
(07:34):
Absolutely.
I just I see so much for lackof a better word demonic stuff
surrounding birth and, like somany people like I get it, are
quick to be like new age andbirth and I'm like holy cow,
like let's, let's look at thisfirst.
The disconnection we'recreating at birth is
legitimately demonic.
Let's face that and then facethe rest together.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Sure, the enemy is certainly trying to find his way
and find strongholds during thebirth experience, because is
there anything more beautifulthan the design that the Lord
created?
Why would he not want tosabotage it?
Why would he not want tosabotage the bond between a
mother and her child that setsthe mother and her child up for
(08:16):
the rest of their lives together?
I mean, it's the easiest.
It's honestly one of theeasiest things places,
experiences that he could crawlhis way into to destroy.
You know, it seems like itwould only make sense that he
would.
He's here to seek and destroyand to separate us from the Lord
(08:40):
, and that's certainly a placeto do that.
You know that I've saidsomething along these lines,
that there's something to it.
I see it in the birth system.
I see it in the modern day waythat birth works, that the Lord
has designed our bodies to growin birth babies, in the peace
(09:01):
and quiet and harmony ofwhatever hole we decide to go
into when it's our time to givebirth.
Yet we've made it into aspectacle.
I mean, what do they call the?
Or Don't they call it a theater?
In some scenarios you go into atheater to get cut open, and
(09:22):
that's not how God intendedbabies to come into this earth.
Now, granted, there are 2% ofscenarios where some assistance
may be of need, but that's notthe rest of the 98% of women.
Yet we've made the 100%, the 2%, and we've retreat birth as if
(09:49):
it is a medical disease thatneeds to be managed and babies
coming out as if they're flawedbefore they're even given an
opportunity to live.
So that's what you know.
Kind of where we left with yourstory was you got, we were in
(10:10):
the car and your milk came inand when you told me that it was
like clicked, just like inbirth, we can't really open when
we're uncomfortable, and I knowyou had that midwife that you
are uncomfortable with.
I had a doctor that I wasreally uncomfortable with and
(10:31):
every time she would come in theroom I feel like my cervix was
like closing.
I think that the same thinghappened with your milk.
You know you were under so muchpressure in the situation of
your daughter going into thisNICU during COVID.
There was so much stress.
She was taken away from you,your body wasn't functioning the
way that it should.
(10:51):
You were under pressure andstress, and then, as soon as you
are out of the clutches of theenemy, that clutches of the
medical system.
Your body did what it knew itneeded to do.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
And it opened up in the floodgates of milk.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
And that's a beautiful thing.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
We spent so much time at home I joke, we were all
naked.
We just wanted the skin to skin, we just wanted to in whatever
way we could.
We couldn't get those momentsback, but we wanted to go home
and start reinstating that ofjust being so gentle with our
daughter and really just lovingher as much as we could.
(11:34):
And that is what I wanted to beso gentle when I changed her
diaper God forbid because shehad been poked for so many days
or whatever.
We just really wanted to loveher all we could.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
I think we all relate to the nakedness of those early
days with babies Like, nope,just skin to skin and as much as
you can, because you know howgood it is for the baby, but
also for the connection betweenmother and baby and milk.
It's amazing that skin to skinso a mother's naked chest
(12:08):
against a baby's naked cheststimulates milk production.
Isn't that a miracle?
Speaker 3 (12:14):
Yes, oh, it's like God's mind right.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
Yeah, he totally did.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
That's why I say anyone that could experience
pregnancy and birth like to comeout of it and not believe in
God.
I just I can't relate, becauseI had never felt so closer to
him and been so led to dive evendeeper in the word once.
I was, like you know, allowedthis honor of being a mother.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Absolutely I feel the same way.
It reignited something new inme as well after my first, that
it was like this is amazing.
Even during pregnancy it comeson as you're getting those
ultrasounds and you're like, ohmy gosh, this is a miracle, this
is amazing.
And when you realize how earlybabies develop, that's another
(13:01):
thing that I don't want to getinto the whole pro life, pro
choice abortion conversation.
I'll just say it.
Really, I mean I already had myopinion on it prior to, but it
really solidified it extrabecause it's like this baby is
fully developed and it's 20weeks.
It's fully developed.
(13:22):
Granted, there's continuationof continuing growth, but it's
amazing to me.
I was amazed.
I had a miscarriage after Benand this baby was six weeks.
That's it six weeks.
And if you look at those apps,I mean they're like it's like a
pee pod, right, and I found thebaby in my pad and it had a
(13:46):
little nose already, its eyeswere starting to form and it had
a cord and a placenta at sixweeks and to me that was just so
incredible, like it's amazingthat the creation that God has
created in these babies justgrowing inside of our wombs is
beautiful.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
It's like a mustard seed.
What's that it's like a mustardseed.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Yes, yes, a mustard seed, exactly.
So then, what happened afterthat?
You had your first daughter,and then you guys decided we're
gonna go for this again.
You learned before you what wasthe next step.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
Yeah, I think that we were just totally united
because of that as a family,Like my husband and I were
brought closer together thanever before.
We could have taken that to madat each other, had distrust in
one another.
I could have been angry, but wereally just leaned into one
another and we were so in love,you know, and we were like maybe
(14:53):
we weren't thinking clearly butwe were like we want another
one and I was just so like hellbent into researching
physiological birth and kind ofjust starting to unlearn and
understand what had happened tome, and I just knew we weren't
gonna do that again.
And my husband and I had saidlike we will be doing this at
(15:14):
home forever, and I just started.
Your husband said that, or?
Speaker 2 (15:18):
you said that.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
Both of us, both of you.
Okay, we finished each other'ssentences.
You know, I went through thatheated in a different way, but
he also.
He had some things to heal fromtoo, and we just knew that we
weren't gonna do that again, wewouldn't be in those walls again
.
And so I got pregnant fivemonths postpartum.
(15:39):
My daughters are 14 monthsapart.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
I love it.
I'm pregnant right now and ourBen in the next few.
We're gonna be 15 months, soI'm right there.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
Yes, it's so fun.
It's fun, it's so amazing tolike give your child like such a
beautiful gift of a sibling.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
It is, it's beautiful , it's the best, yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
And I don't know, like, once you have a baby, one
time your body's like I've donethis.
You know that's cool too.
Yeah, I just startedresearching it.
I knew I wanted to do a homebirth and I did want support and
you know, there's like thiswhole like dogma around, like
wanting support is bad and Ilike I am fully endorsed and
(16:23):
support and love free birth andunassisted birth, but it wasn't
where my heart was at the timeand I just I like knew I was
like there has to be a woman outthere who can simply hold the
space for me.
Simply hold the space, like Ihear about these fairies that
are out there, you know, and I'mgonna find them.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
Unicorns exist somewhere.
Speaker 3 (16:44):
Yeah, unicorns, and I kind of created some of these
questions I wanted to ask and Ireally just like I set on this
mission of I will lean into myintuition, my God given
intuition, and I will abide,because it's one thing to have
the Holy Spirit, you know,talking to you and around you,
but to abide by it is anotherthing.
(17:05):
And I just was like I will runevery single thing by God and
his will will be done, but I amnot gonna have not listened to
him again, you know, and likenow with this daughter, that was
very tangible and in front ofme and we had gone through that.
It was like I am the protector.
I am the protector of myselfand my children and like this is
(17:27):
so far beyond me you know, thedecisions that you're making for
birth.
It's about your baby too.
So I interviewed a lot ofmidwives and I mean usually like
within the first, even some ofthem like I heard their voice
and I'm like, nope, that's howserious.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
I got this time.
And that's how it is.
When you interview, though, youknow within the first 15
seconds if you're gonna clickwith that person or not.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
One of them.
I'm so happy I had theinterview on the phone, because
my face would have just given itall away she was like yeah,
well, I'm still requiring masksand I limit the amount of people
you can have at your home birth.
And you know I'm only doinghome birth three days a week
because the rest of the week I'min the hospital and I was like
bye, you're like okay, great,thanks so much.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
Have a nice day, goodbye.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
Why, though, like kind of tying into like our
conversation today is midwiferyisn't necessarily answer.
It is really being informed andpretty clear on who you were
allowing in your birth space.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
You're making a great point, because I think
something that it's importantfor everybody to understand is
that a licensed midwife has toreport to the state.
They still have to abide byrules and they still what was
the word you had used they're inconference with the hospitals.
(18:50):
They still consult with doctorsat hospitals and have to abide
by.
Oftentimes, even if they do aconsult with a doctor and the
doctor says do or don't do this.
If they don't listen, theycould get in legal trouble Legal
trouble.
So it's something that I didn'tknow either until my midwife
(19:13):
dropped me because of thesepotential legal ramifications.
But it's important to know.
And there are other types ofmidwives birth workers, the
underground railroad ofmidwifery that exists.
There are a lot of options, buttell us more about kind of what
(19:36):
you continue to do as you weresearching for a midwife.
Speaker 3 (19:39):
So I had just kind of learned about free birth and an
assisted birth and it wasreally interesting to me and I
just thought like that's amazing, I would love that, but I also-
.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
I thought that those people were crazy.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
After my experience it was like there was so much
intervention yeah, we were alsobroken that it was like what do
you have to lose?
Speaker 1 (20:02):
Yeah, exactly, it's true, yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
So, even though I wasn't necessarily ready for
that, yeah, even though itwasn't your path.
And I still were able toappreciate it.
I landed on.
I'm gonna ask midwives, I'mgonna ask them what they think
about free birth and unassistedbirth, and that's gonna give me
such a beautiful idea of whothese women are Smart.
And it was so.
That's how you know what wasspirit led.
I can remember walking into mymidwives, just where she was at,
(20:29):
and I was like, oh, it's justfelt, it felt like home and just
immediately speaking to her andjust how she talked to me.
She had even brought upunassisted birth before I even
asked.
It was truly just a mash madein heaven.
And I kind of like, in anutshell, laid out kind of my
(20:49):
experience with my firstdaughter, what I didn't want,
what I wanted, my expectation ofthe person who would be witness
to my birth and walk with me inmy pregnancy.
Like I knew I wanted no testing, no, I did one ultrasound and
it was like, are you cool withthis?
Are you not like let's just layit all right out right now and
let's really get serious,because I don't want you to say
(21:10):
yes and then, at 40 weeks, youknow, get weird?
Speaker 1 (21:14):
And.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
I mean she still technically could have, but like
I really just felt like she was.
She was a licensed midwife thatwas with women for women and I
can't imagine the things thatshe goes through that maybe I
don't know about when you're.
(21:34):
You know you're treading thosewaters, which I'm sure aren't
easy because the majority ofthem don't.
But I had a superstraightforward pregnancy.
Like I think about thispregnancy and I think about this
birth and it's like it's ashort story because it was so
straightforward.
You know our appointments, likeour.
I did go into my prenatalappointments.
(21:56):
It was completely optional todo but I enjoyed the
conversation so much.
She actually had a student andwe would all sit around and have
tea and talk and nine times outof 10.
It was not about a baby, it wasjust about life and birth and
we would talk about like a birthvideo we saw or something we
saw on Instagram, or you know,she gave me the book, she lent
(22:18):
me the book, or Gazz McBurth,and like we would just talk
about what we had read.
It was.
It was like a little girl'scircle, you know, just like the
friendship I needed because Ialso had no other women in my
life who I could go be ecstaticabout birth with.
Well, I like, looked for it, youwere building a true
relationship with her.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
It wasn't just about the checking the boxes.
You guys were building a bondbetween the two of you.
Speaker 3 (22:43):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
I think that's what a good midwives their goal is is
to have a bond and a realfriendship and relationship
established so that then whenyou're going into the birth,
that you actually have a mutualtrust for each other and that
you know what each other expectsor wants from each other.
(23:04):
I interviewed a lot of midwivestoo, and my biggest question
was always what do you do withmoms who have a breech baby?
Because that was my previousexperiences and most of them are
like, oh well, we transfer tothe hospital because we don't do
that.
But one of them who did have abreech experience she said I get
(23:24):
, I get moms calling me all thetime because they're 39 weeks
and their babies breach and theywant to transfer care to me
because they heard that I willdeliver a breech baby.
But I'm not going to take on amom like that when we don't have
any relationship established.
Like it's different when it'sfrom you know week, you know the
(23:46):
first trimester, through thewhole thing, that we have a
relationship established andthat bond formed, that then we
can trust each other.
But to just take any mom in adesperate situation, it can go
really bad and I think that'skind of what's reflected in your
previous experience of havingthese rotating midwives.
(24:06):
You never really get to knowany of them that well, or maybe
you did one of them and that'snot the one that you end up
getting, so I think that that'sreally important in reflecting
what you experienced the secondtime that you were able to
become friends with even thestudent midwife too.
I think that's great.
(24:27):
We're still friends for thisday.
Yeah, that's awesome, yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
There's a camaraderie there that you were able to
build, so that's awesome.
We're talking tea together,talking about what's important,
and it sounds like, when thetime came, you know you had a
team of people that trusted youjust as much as you trusted them
.
Speaker 3 (24:49):
Oh yeah she.
I will never forget this andI've said this so many times.
One time she was like I don'tthink I'm going to make it to
your birth.
You're going to do great, andit was just.
It was like if you want to doan assisted, that is great.
If you want to call me, that isgreat, but if I am not there
for whatever circumstance, itdoesn't matter.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
You've got this.
Speaker 3 (25:09):
You are the best for your baby.
You know, because I did, likeone of the things that I
struggled with the wholepregnancy was what?
What if my baby doesn't breathe?
And it was like that was solike nailed into me from that
first birth that that is what Ihad to sit on and pray on
(25:30):
constantly, and like I wouldtalk with her through it and she
was like maybe it's going tocome around.
You're the best thing for yourbaby in those moments and you
will know if things aren'tgetting better.
You know things like that.
It was just.
It was so nice to even be ableto like work through fears and
(25:50):
move, move forward no-transcript.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
Yeah, so when did you go on to labor the second time?
Was it the same amount of time,or did you go over, or how did
that go?
Speaker 3 (26:03):
So first baby was 39 and five and it was 23 hours
start to finish.
Second baby I was 40 and onewhich, like everyone around me,
was like I had told people mydue date, never doing it again.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
Yeah, always add like three weeks to it, right.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
And everyone in my town is being induced Like I
mean, honestly everyone at thehospital right now is like 39
weeks.
So if you see a 40 week orbeyond, it is a sight to be seen
.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
Right, it's great.
Yes.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
So I was 40 and one and I had this time.
I took off work at 37 weeksbecause, you, just like I,
wanted to lean into thatslowness.
And I also wanted the time withmy daughter Because I knew I
didn't ever worry about thespace to love another one, but I
wanted to savor the lastmoments of her and I.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (26:56):
So we got that time to just be at home and hang out
and also I'm a hairstylist,though like approaching birth I
didn't want, unfortunately, tohear all the trauma stories,
because that's really like doingwhat I do has really opened my
eyes to just the amount of womenwho have positive experiences
(27:17):
to the latter and, like I wouldyou know, proudly share that I
was having a home birth andthere at the end it was like,
nope, I am guarding, we areputting a protective bubble.
I'm taking a word, don't eventalk about it, yep, and I just
wanted to like lean into myfamily.
So, 41 I had woke up and like Istarted having those really
like low dull cramps and I waslike this is it.
And I went to the bathroom andwent pee and I had a blood tinge
(27:40):
mucus and I was like oh, itreally is it.
But my first labor was longer,which I think 20, even, I think
up to 30 hours is still like avariation of normal for a first
time mom.
So maybe it wasn't long, it wasjust normal long to me.
So I was like we'll probably bedoing this for a while and
things were so they weren't eventimeable throughout the day,
but they were different.
(28:00):
I will say that like I madeJordan stay home from work and
then he was like well, why don'tyou time them?
You know he was, I think hemore so after our last
experience, once things startedkicking off, you could kind of
see like not necessarily worry,but he was more responsive and I
started timing them and he waslike they're timeable, you
should reach out to the midwife.
(28:21):
I was like I'll reach out to mymidwife when I'm ready and I
think at 830 things had reallypicked up more so that they were
timeable.
They were intense.
I wanted to breathe throughthem a little bit more.
I was still up and walkingaround.
We got our daughter down, stevieat 830.
I like gave her her finalkisses, you know, and like
(28:42):
knowing that that was the lasttime I would kiss her, of her
being my only, and I went in andI had had my birth space ready
since like 37 weeks because itwas just, it was like a fun
thing for me to do and I hadlike the cheesy twinkle lights
and all the things because itwas my birth and I was going to
have it.
However, the hell I wanted it.
I know everybody hates othertwinkle lights, but I'm like do
(29:03):
they?
Speaker 2 (29:03):
I thought everybody was into that I don't know.
Speaker 3 (29:06):
There's so much like dogma around anything anymore.
I'm like I love what we want tolove.
I'm not even supposed to watchbirth videos anymore.
I'm like, oh my God, I can'ttalk to a dramatic bird.
No, I can't talk about goodbirth.
Where's the room for anythinganymore?
Yeah yeah, I started feeling atmy tub and, honestly, what was
(29:28):
crazy about this birth was Ididn't float away into La La
Land Like I really I had.
I had really prayed on, like Iwant to feel it all.
But I want to be present,because in my first birth, like
I said, I kind of went away tolabor land and I didn't want
that, like I wanted to be reallypresent.
And what was so crazy and why?
(29:48):
I think Jordan was like we'renot going to have a baby until
the morning was even well intotransition.
I could come out of it and belike so how's everybody's day?
It was just so, but I thinkbecause I wasn't, I would never
worry about getting in a car or,you know, getting checked or
all those things, like it wasjust us at home.
There was nowhere to be, it was.
It was so amazing.
(30:09):
And things did get reallyintense once Jordan came in from
putting Stevie down I want tosay it was like 1030 and he was
like we're going to call themidwife and I was like, okay,
that sounds good, we can let herknow.
And so she heard me havingcontractions over the phone and
she was like if Courtney wantsme to come over, not you.
And so she ended up headingover and once she got there, I
(30:33):
think I went into transitionbecause I was over talking to
absolutely anybody through thosewaves and my water hadn't
broken.
I think I had said with myfirst labor my water broke 10
hours before I had her and thatwas really interesting, just
like maybe that attributed to itbeing kind of less intense.
Maybe my dilla was right, Idon't know.
(30:53):
I was in and out of the tub onmy own accord.
I labored a lot on the toilet.
It was super intense, but Ijust kept, you know, attributing
that intensity to like working,like I could really fill her
coming down when I was on thetoilet and I wanted to make sure
I was like peeing and all thethings and I had had like one
(31:15):
really grumpy contraction andthat was the only time, once my
midwife had gotten there, thatshe said anything.
She's like maybe you'd reallyenjoy the tub, because she had
heard me get grumpy and I thinkshe knew like she's about to
have this baby.
So I got in the tub and thenthe guttural just fetal ejection
reflex just washed over me andher and the assistant were at
(31:39):
the complete opposite end of theroom just watching, you know,
and bearing witness, and thingsgot intense.
I could genuinely, I couldliterally feel my daughter
maneuvering in my birth canaland she was like why don't you
reach and see if you could fillyour baby?
The next was that she said andI reached and I could fill her
(32:00):
head, and then seconds, my waterbursts in my hands and then I
was like, oh, she's coming and Icould she moved again, could
fill her head and I was like,okay, I don't want to rush this.
Even in that moment I was like Idon't want this to be over, so
I really like breathe through it.
And then, in one morecontraction she was out and I
just had like this moment.
(32:21):
At that point I think they hadturned the lights on again
because I had wanted it dark andshe just got to stand there
still under the water for a bit,just completely.
I left alone, you know, and Igot to take her out of me, fill
her and merge and then take herright up to me and all by myself
, and no one was touching her.
(32:43):
She had a quarter round herneck and I was able to take it
off.
She was a mucusy and I removedher mucus and no one was telling
me that I couldn't touch herthe way that I instinctively
wanted to.
Gosh, I'm sorry.
No, don't apologize, You've gotme like my husband was there,
(33:03):
you know, just touching me andawe, and I think he was like Cal
, like look at how this unfoldswhen it's completely left alone
In my midwife just looked overand she was like good job, you
know, like I'm so proud of you.
And I just looked at Jordan.
I was like that's how it'ssupposed to be, you know, and
(33:24):
even in that moment, like you,you're not ready for a
redemptive birth to then bringup so much more emotion, knowing
like you just wish that yourfirst have that.
You know, it's like thisconcept, it's like this double
edged sword and I felt all thosethings in that moment.
But then I was just like justflooded with love of this, like
(33:46):
little cheesy vernix baby.
He was gurgling a little too,and that's what was like so
interesting about the midwifewas she was still way away, as
she was working through thatmucus and, you know, really
starting to come about herself,and we were just completely
allowed to navigate thatourselves.
(34:09):
It's been beautiful 15 minutesafter I was having contractions
and I was like I'm gonna, Ithink I need to deliver my
placenta.
Delivered my placenta.
We hung out in the pool for alittle bit longer.
They were like admiring myplacenta.
I mean they're just amazing.
They're like complimenting me abunch.
I'm like I just want to givebirth every day.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
That's so beautiful, what a redemptive experience
after such a hands on experience.
And I understand where you'recoming from when you say that it
brings up a lot of emotionsabout the first, because it's
like I wish I would have hadthis with my first.
But I think sometimes, you know, those negative experiences are
our lesson and the futureexperiences are us putting those
(34:56):
lessons and knowledge and whatwe've learned into place.
And sometimes we can't get tothat place unless we've had the
hard lesson.
You know, and I think thatthat's what I'm seeing in your
story.
That's just so relatable and sobeautiful is that you know you
went through something tough andyou came out the other side
(35:17):
even stronger and then youcontinue to grow from there and
you knew what to look for.
And these, these ladies soundwonderful, the way that they
just sat back and left you aloneand they let you catch your own
not let you, I mean to say letyou, but you got to catch your
own baby, which is how it shouldbe.
Speaker 3 (35:37):
Absolutely, I have this thing.
It's a me thing.
I think because of my firstbirth, that when I'm like
witnessing this beautiful birthonline, I do love watching them
and I see the mother fullycapable.
And then it's like there's amidwife's hand and she's got to
like in there even for fiveseconds and just like get a
little touch.
You did not need to do that.
(35:59):
So unnecessary right, because Iwould imagine even that body,
that baby's body, wouldrecognize a touch that's not
from its mother.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
Well, yeah, and it's like they ask for, or they
should and it sounds like yourfirst word asking for consent to
touch us, the mother.
They should also be askingconsent to touch the baby,
because that is an autonomoushuman being and, as the mother,
we are the gatekeepers of thatbaby until they can speak for
themselves.
So you know, nobody needs to begrabbing their hands in there
(36:32):
to touch anyone without askingpermission.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
I know that you watch a lot of birth videos, courtney
, did you see the one where itwas?
She was?
I don't, she wasn't.
I think she was speakingPortuguese, so I didn't.
I saw the translation, but Ididn't know exactly what she was
saying.
But she was having the baby andthey kept touching her and she
(36:58):
was screaming at them stoptouching me, stop touching me.
And they're like no, we have totouch you or your baby could
die.
She's like stop touching me.
Those types of videos make meso viscerally, like angry and
upset for these moms, so likeget your hands off.
Or the woman who was having ahospital birth.
This was one that's beencirculating over the last couple
(37:21):
of weeks.
She's having her hospital birthand she was standing up and she
was leaning against the bed andthis nurse, or whatever she was
I don't know, she's a nurse,she was.
I think she was a nurse becausethey were saying her midwife,
your midwife's not going to makeit.
You need to, you need to stop.
And she just was a tuning themout.
I was so proud of her.
She just tuning them out.
(37:41):
And they're like you know,you're not complete.
You can't, you can't give birth.
No, you're not complete andshe's just like not listening.
Not listening.
They're like you can't givebirth like that, Don't push, you
have to like at least lay downor something.
And she just stood there andshe delivered the baby herself,
but this lady kept putting herhands all over her.
Speaker 3 (38:03):
You know, you know and.
I just like how to call thatwhat that is, and it's abuse,
right, because we teach our kidsfrom a really early age about
consent and that follows intoevery area of our life, and one
is enough.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
Absolutely.
I couldn't agree more.
This goes into, you know, Ifeel very strongly that I think
that the vaginal exams that wereceive as teenagers and as
young women are kind of groomingin this way, and grooming for
this, these birth experienceswhere they're going to stick
(38:38):
whatever they want to stick upthere or cut whatever they want
to cut.
They're just, they're groomingus for their comfort and the
things that they want to be ableto do, versus, hey, how about
we don't put anything in thereor touch anything unless you
know something needs to be done?
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (39:00):
Absolutely and, I think, telling, like in my
situation, if I wouldn't havehad the wherewithal, or, you
know, my faith of even when mybaby emerged from me I'm not
smart enough of how to touch her, you know.
And then you, just you're likeheedlessly abiding by your
midwives, your I don't know yourpediatrician, everyone else
(39:21):
it's like no, you are innatelydesigned by God to know how to
mother, how to give birth, howto do it.
All you know and these peopledon't know because they've never
been witness.
Yeah, you know, they havepeople go to them who are like
just do this for me.
(39:41):
So they, I truly believe theyjust don't even know how to
support something like that.
Speaker 2 (39:47):
Yeah, I think that they, a lot of these Western
medicine practices probablyreally miss the Twilight days.
Remember they used to put momsin Twilight sleep back in our
grandparents era.
They just put them out.
I mean, what better patientcould you have than someone
who's unconscious?
Speaker 3 (40:05):
and can't talk back.
Have you guys ever read achildbirth without fear by grant
Grant Lee, dick Reed?
No, I got to check that out.
He started in like the late1800s, talking about how, like
when birth got extremelymedicalized, and he talks about
all of those early interventionsand you know how soon to be,
(40:25):
like the Twilight sleep and craplike that how they stopped
because it was so dangerous andthat's why we call it practicing
medicine.
Somehow we're not coming to oursenses about the interventions
we're having now, even thoughour outcomes are gruesome.
Speaker 2 (40:41):
Yeah, absolutely so I'd love to ask you a couple of
questions about your experience,and the first is what was the
biggest lesson that you learnedfrom your two experiences?
Speaker 3 (40:56):
I feel like it's my motto now.
It's to lean into my intuitionand abide by it, and to not not
be scared to take roads lesstraveled.
And even if I feel alone, I'mnot scared to be alone because,
you know, god's always with me.
Speaker 2 (41:15):
That's beautiful.
It's great Now if you could goback and change something, would
you?
This is a tricky question.
Speaker 3 (41:24):
No, I don't think I would.
You know, I think that, as hardas it was to live through, I
think that those hard things arelike our biggest lessons, you
know, like to get through hardthings like, and those hard
things take us to the betterthings, kind of.
You know, like, of course, inmy perfect world, without
(41:47):
knowing that through hard thingscome like so much wisdom, right
, like I wouldn't be able to gothrough that and have the wisdom
that I have now.
Speaker 2 (41:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (41:55):
So I don't think I would change it.
Speaker 2 (41:56):
Yeah, I totally get that.
It's hard, but it shapes usright.
It makes us who we are.
Now, what is something that youwould want to share with an
expecting or soon to be mom,whether it's her first time or
her fourth time?
What do you want moms to knowabout birth?
Speaker 3 (42:20):
I'm going to try and tie it into my experience that
you are the authority over yourbirth.
You know you are so beautifullyconnected to that baby and your
womb that you know you know inyour heart the right places to
be to give birth.
Do not settle for birth.
Where you give birth, you know.
(42:42):
If you're looking for a happymedium for the sake of other
people's comfort levels, that'sreally something I encourage you
to explore, because birth isnot something we should be
settling for and how we birthsticks with us forever.
If the fight feels hard whichfor most of us it is you've got
to ask yourself what can I livewith?
(43:04):
What decisions I make can Ilive with?
And kind of how we said, Ithink, in the first episode of
when we're picking our hard,what's harder, you know, firing
providers standing my ground,sometimes standing alone, or
healing from a traumatic birth,potentially.
Speaker 1 (43:23):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (43:27):
Courtney, this has been amazing.
Was there anything else thatyou wanted to share with
listeners today?
Speaker 3 (43:33):
Oh, I think that's it .
I hope that my experience justhelps people out there and that
you know, if ever they wanted toask me questions, they can,
because I didn't suffer fornothing and if I can help people
through that, I would love to.
Speaker 2 (43:53):
Awesome.
And yeah, you can find Courtneyon her blog,
southwestbirthworkercom, or onInstagram at
southwestbirthworkercom, and Iwill add these links along with
the books that she mentionedinto the show notes, so be sure
to refer to those if you want toget a quick link to access her.
But thank you, courtney, forbeing with us.
(44:14):
Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 3 (44:16):
Thank you guys.
Thank you so much for having aplatform for Christian moms and
you know talking aboutuncomfortable truths.
Speaker 2 (44:24):
Yeah, of course I mean.
This is what the Lord iscalling us to do to do the hard
things right, and we hope thatit helps others.
That's our whole goal.
So thank you for tuning intoday, for being on this journey
with us.
If you'd like to follow alongoutside the podcast, you can do
so on Instagram, Facebook and onYouTube at the Radiant Mission.
And today we're going to closewith Courtney's favorite Bible
(44:45):
verse.
It is 2 Timothy 1 7.
And she mentioned that shefinds it most resonating to
motherhood and all of the thingsinside of it.
She says for the spirit Godgave us does not make us timid,
but gives us power, love andself discipline.
And we are wishing you aradiant week and we will see you
(45:06):
next time.
Bye, guys, We'll see you later.
My people say Bye, Bye.
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