June 6, 2023 • 27 mins
This is the first in a series of episodes where I interview interesting innovators that I ran into at the recent ASU + GSV Summit. In this episode I talk with Christine Cruzvergara, Chief Education strategy Officer at Handshake. Christine shares her experiences in higher education and highlights the work happening at Handshake to connect more students and recent grads to their next employment opportunity.
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Episode Transcript
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Eloy (00:10):
Hi everyone.
I'm Eloy Ortiz Oakley, andwelcome back to the Ran the
podcast where we pull back thecurtain and break down the
people, the policies, and thepolitics of our higher education
system.
In this episode, I'm lookingback at my experiences at the
recent A S U G S V conference inSan Diego.
And hearing from interestingpeople who are doing amazing
(00:31):
work in the field.
This is the first in a series ofepisodes where I'll be taking
some time and talking to someinteresting innovators in the
post-secondary education spacewho I just happened to run into
at A S U G S V today.
I'll be talking with ChristineCruz Vergara Chief Education
Strategy Officer at Handshake,which is a technology platform
(00:55):
to help students in recentgrads.
Find their next opportunity.
And before I welcome Christine,I do need to say that I am
currently a member of theHandshake Impact Advisory Board.
So with that out of the way,welcome to the podcast,
Christine.
Christine (01:11):
Thanks, Eloy.
Excited to be here with you.
Eloy (01:13):
All right, well let's, let's start off with, pretty
straightforward question.
Tell us a little bit about, you,uh, tell us a little bit about
Christine, you lead educationstrategy for Handshake.
How did you get to this, um, tothis role at Handshake?
And tell us a little bit aboutyour own education and
professional journey.
Christine (01:31):
Sure.
So my background is actually inhigher education.
I spent the first part of mycareer working in higher ed,
primarily four year institutionsup and down the east coast.
I always say an easy way toremember is that I worked at all
of the.
Georges in the DC area, gw,Georgetown and George Mason.
Then we're to be the associateProvost at Wellesley College
(01:53):
outside of Boston.
So I do have experience at bothlarge and small institutions,
public and private institutions.
Non elite institutions.
The most, I think, common threadthroughout my career, especially
as I look back, is that I reallyled change management at a lot
of the different places that Iworked.
I was recruited by institutionswho needed to rethink and wanted
(02:15):
to rethink what career educationcould look like for their
students and how it could bemore deeply embedded into the
fabric and mission for thatschool and.
That was a lot of the work thatI did previously, and it's what
actually brought me to Handshakeand to think about the work that
could be done at scale acrossthousands of institutions and
(02:36):
across millions of students.
So now I have the privilege ofbeing able to work at Handshake
and work with over 1400universities and colleges as our
partners, and to really helpensure that they and their
students are able to besuccessful in finding the next
internship or the next full-timejob.
Eloy (02:54):
So when you were a student yourself, did you have anything
like handshake or what, whatparts of your own personal
experience going from educationto a job sort of sticks with you
in, in this new role?
Christine (03:06):
the part that actually sticks with me the most
is being a daughter of
Eloy (03:09):
Mm-hmm.
Christine (03:10):
So both of my parents immigrated here.
They worked.
Multiple jobs often, And both ofthem at one point or another
went to community college.
My dad did end up getting hisassociate's degree and
eventually went on to get his,his bachelor's and even his
master's.
But that was over the course ofmy entire life, The thing that
my parents.
(03:30):
Sort of push the most was thateducation truly can change your
future.
And education is the tool forsocial mobility.
And so if you wanna besuccessful, you have to go to
school.
So I always believed in theimportance of higher education,
but I definitely did not haveanything like handshake when I
was school didn't exist, right?
(03:51):
Platforms like that didn't quiteexist yet.
And I think what really struckme is that I was only exposed to
a very small, narrow set ofcareers, and it was really
either what my parents did, whatmy friend's parents did, or what
I saw on tv.
And to be perfectly honest,that's still pretty true for
most students, even though theyhave more access to information.
(04:13):
When you're 18, 19 years oldgoing to school, that is still
primarily what you know.
And so a tool like Handshake andour partners in career services
are now able to help students ata younger age be exposed to a
number of other career paths oropportunities that they might
wanna consider and just try andsee if they like him.
Eloy (04:33):
I think that's a, a great way to put it because that
certainly was my experience.
the opportunities that you seeare only those that are closest
around you and if, and if you'renot seeing other opportunities
and you're not thinking aboutthose opportunities.
And so it's really about thenetwork that you have and your
ability to, to accessinformation about what else
(04:53):
might be available to you.
Christine (04:55):
That's right.
Eloy (04:56):
Let's talk about Handshake then.
Handshake helps connect recentgrads to, to jobs.
you mentioned a little bit ofthat.
It's a, it's a platform and Ithink as a parent I wish all my
kids would jump on.
But, um, uh, tell us a littlebit more about Handshake.
How has it evolved and whatexcites you about the work that
Handshake is engaging in today?
Christine (05:16):
Let me start by actually giving you the founding
story of Handshake, becausethat's really at the core of how
and why we do the work that wedo.
So Handshake was founded bythree students, uh, Garrett,
Scott, and Ben.
They all went to Michigan Tech,and for those of you that are
unfamiliar with Michigan Tech,it is in the upper peninsula of
Michigan and gets about 300inches of snow a year.
(05:37):
So as you can imagine, that verymuch limited the types of
employers that were actuallygoing on campus and recruiting.
And what the co-founders foundwas that they wanted to work at
companies that weren't coming totheir school and that their
career center didn't haverelationships with.
They had no way of gettingconnected to the types of
(05:57):
companies that were in SiliconValley.
Or these big brand names thatwere outside of the Midwest, and
so they started asking aroundand they started calling.
That's actually how I metGarrett, our co-founder and C E
o I was at George Mason at thetime.
He was a student.
He called for an informationalinterview.
I said yes, and we ended uphaving a conversation about his
(06:18):
experience and he wanted toknow, is it this hard for other
students at the schools that Ihad been at to get access to the
types of employers that theywanted?
And I said, you know, it's notbecause of geography or snow,
but Yes.
You know, I was working at Masonat the time and I said, we're
not the flagship institution ofVirginia.
We also have a lot ofprestigious institutions in DC
that I have to compete with.
(06:40):
It is harder for me to getemployers to consider my
students.
Even though the Mason graduatesare phenomenal, they have so
much talent, but it is harder toattract that, those employers.
So he said, well, let me try andsee if I can come up with
something that could help withthis problem, and I'll come back
to you.
Honestly, I didn't think I wouldhear from him, but nine months
later I did, and him and theco-founders had come up with
(07:03):
Handshake and what I think is socool about Handshake and how
it's evolved is that.
Handshake fundamentally hasreally tried to actually change
the system.
When we talk about systemicchange, that is what Handshake
has attempted to do.
So when Handshake first cameinto the market, it came on as a
network, and that's.
(07:24):
Fundamentally very differentthan what existed back then.
What existed back then wereclosed enterprise systems that
each school would purchase andthen
Eloy (07:34):
Mm-hmm.
Christine (07:34):
And so the only employers that were going to
that school were still the onlyemployers that would be willing
to recruit at that particularinstitution, and instead a, a
employer would have to log intotens of thousands of different.
Systems, They have to log intoeach one and they have to post
(07:55):
their position or positions overand over and over and over
again.
And as you can imagine, asrecruiters, they have limited
time.
So what this did was it resultedin a lot of employers saying, I
only recruit at my 10 coreschools.
Or I only worked at my 20 topschools, right?
But all of this talent existedat hundreds, thousands of other
(08:17):
institutions that they weren'ttapping into.
So when Handshake became anetwork, they said, you only
have to log into one system andyou can actually post and
recruit across all of ourhandshake schools.
And so what happened was, as.
New institutions startedjoining.
Every single institution saw a200 to 300% increase in the
(08:37):
number of employers andopportunities for their
students.
Nobody, nobody lost.
Nobody lost because equity isnot a zero sum game.
So it, it was quite powerful tobe able to see that.
And as we continue to evolve,we're very focused on making
sure that we continue to liveout our mission of democratizing
access to students and to, totheir opportunities.
(08:59):
and we wanna do it in the mostengaging way possible so that
students feel like they bothhave.
Humans in their life, like theircareer centers and their
advisors, but they also haveaccess to this information and
to these opportunities andtogether that is very powerful.
Eloy (09:14):
Well, I'm glad to hear that there are still humans
involved because after A S U G SV, it made me think that, the
day of the human is over.
Now, a a lot of what youmentioned really is about
accessing networks, accessinginformation.
And certainly for me that's,that's powerful because the
kinds of students that I've.
Worked with It is that lack ofinformation, that lack of having
(09:36):
access to a network that reallystalls your ability to find the
kinds of opportunities that.
you're really hoping, uh, toget, to get at and you hear
about, the other institutionshaving, the big employers show
up at the business school andhave access there.
So have you actually seenthrough your platform,
(09:57):
individuals and, and collegesand universities from parts of
the country that have not alwayshad the kind of access that the
big universities always,highlight?
Ha Have you seen them havegreater access?
Christine (10:10):
We have absolutely.
There's actually a reallyinteresting story that we just
heard from one of our campuspartners.
Palm Beach Atlantic, uh, wasrecently just telling us that
one of their students not onlyapplied to a job at Goldman
Sachs, which as you can imagine,Goldman is not going to Palm
Beach Atlantic.
But they got an interview andthey ended up getting an offer.
And so that was really exciting.
(10:31):
That's, that's a great exampleof the types of stories that we
actually hear very regularly,and we know from many of our
employer partners, they havebeen able to two x three x,
sometimes four x, the number ofdiverse candidates that they
find because they're able toactually recruit across multiple
institutions and not just theirtop 20 are their top 30.
Eloy (10:51):
So at A S U G S V, you were on a panel that, was
discussing skills-based hiringand, and this notion of
skills-based hiring has been, inthe news quite a bit.
There's been a lot of peopletalking about it.
I know my friends over at Jobsfor the Future.
I think, uh, Maria Flynn wasyour moderator has been really
focused on this issue.
(11:11):
From the handshake perspective,from your perspective, what does
skills-based hiring actuallymean and look like?
Christine (11:18):
Skill space hiring is about looking at a candidate and
assessing whether or not theyhave the skills that are
necessary for the job ratherthan simply relying on their
credentials.
Their degree or their major as amajor educator for whether or
not they can do the job.
And we are seeing more and moreemployers talk about wanting to
do skills-based hiring or tryingto dip their toe into
(11:42):
skills-based hiring and figureout how can we actually do that.
So I think a lot of employersfor us are really asking
themselves the question.
What are actually the skillsthat are needed to do this job
rather than say, what is themajor or what is the degree that
is needed to do this job?
And often we just simply usedegrees or majors as a
Eloy (12:02):
Right.
Christine (12:03):
for collection of skills.
And so it's just a matter ofhaving to breakthrough and say,
okay, well if you say that youwant a psychology major or you
want an economics major, or youwant an engineering major, why?
What are you assuming that thatmajor.
Has or comes with, and it'shelping employers to break that
down to the skill level so thatthey can actually find students
(12:24):
who maybe don't have thatdegree, but actually do have
that skill.
One of the things that we foundwas really, quite impressive in
one of our most recent reportsis that, Over 80% of our
non-technical majors in theclass of 2023 actually have tech
skills.
Whether that's data analysis,whether that's it, whether
that's software engineering andit's, it may be self-taught or
(12:46):
they may have gone through acredentialing program or a
bootcamp or something else ontheir own, but that's a really
great example of where you mightbe leaving talent on the table
because you're not thinkingabout those particular skills.
Eloy (12:57):
And so with these changes happening and, and I, which I
think are, are good changeswe've been talking about sort of
breaking down, some of thebiases that employers have had
for, for decades.
and just focusing on the proxyof that, uh, that degree.
What would this mean?
What would a skill-based hiringecosystem mean for the way that
(13:18):
Handshake operates?
Christine (13:19):
There are different components to this.
I think the first is actuallyhelping students to articulate
the skills that they have,right?
So one of the things that werecently just implemented, uh,
sounds very basic and verysimple, but is actually
incredibly helpful in the searchprocess, which is helping with
the, skills taxonomy andactually making sure that when a
student enters the skill thatthey have, they're able to
(13:42):
select, for example, PowerPoint.
Because Eloy, you would notimagine the number of different
variations that you could write,that you have PowerPoint skills.
They're 17 to be exact, right?
And so something as simple asthat is actually really
important for a tech platformbecause if one person puts P P
T, another person writes outMicrosoft PowerPoint, another
(14:02):
one writes PowerPoint, right?
You're gonna get so manydifferent variations when an
employer goes to select orsearch for that skill.
They're not gonna put in 17different versions of that.
Right, and so then you end upagain missing a population of
students.
But when we can actuallystandardize that, so you start
typing in PowerPoint, we giveyou the suggestion, you select
(14:23):
it, it all of a sudden it makesit so much easier for an
employer to be able to do that.
Excel is another great exampleof a very common skill that
employers search for, but peoplewrite it a number of different
ways, and so that is one of thethings that we've already
started to do in Handshake.
The other pieces that we wannastart thinking about are how can
we surface insights and datathat allows a student to know as
(14:46):
they continue to click on jobsor internships that are
interesting to them?
It seems like you're reallyinterested in X, and all of
those job descriptions seem torequire or prefer X, y, and Z
skills.
We see that your profile haslisted.
Two out of the five skills, doyou have these other three
skills?
And prompt them to either enterit if they haven't or if they
(15:09):
don't one day.
I think we would love to be ableto actually connect them to a
learning marketplace where theymight be able to get those
skills and where they canactually start to acquire some
of those additional skills thatcan make them a more competitive
candidate.
So those are some of the ideasthat we're starting to float and
bounce around at
Eloy (15:26):
I, I think that last idea is, is such a wonderful,
opportunity.
This is something that.
We've been talking about for along time, which is how can we
more personalize the, educationand workforce experience for,
for the learner?
How, how do we give them moreinformation so that they make
more and better choices about,uh, where they can go and, and
(15:49):
actually help them think aboutwhat would be next?
just as you said, if they'remissing one skill and that one
skill could get them into adifferent kind of job.
Be wonderful if they had thatinformation, and then the
opportunity to see where theymight get that skill.
Christine (16:04):
that's right.
Eloy (16:05):
So Handshake serves a lot of different types of, learners,
recent grads, current students,and a lot of different
generations.
And you serve a lot of, um, genZ students.
What, what are some of thetrends that you're seeing in
this generation of job seekerand what are the challenges in
serving?
(16:26):
Different generations of jobseekers.
And do you see any differencesin the way that employers think
about them in their recruitmentand hiring practices?
Christine (16:33):
I'll start by talking about this particular class The
class of 2023, we actuallysurveyed three different times
this year to get a gauge theirsentiment and what was important
for them.
One of the most interestingthings I think for me to
highlight is this particularclass is seeking stability.
At the beginning of this schoolyear, 74% of this class said
(16:54):
that stability was one of thetop factors in whether or not
they would look at a company ora particular job.
And as we went into the springsemester, that number increased
to 85%.
And I'm not at all surprised bythat.
And I think the reason being isthey came back to spring
semester and they saw headlineafter headline after headline of
(17:16):
layoff.
Especially with big tech, andthese are companies that, for
most of them, throughout themajority of their lifetime, they
saw growing very, very quicklyand being very, very successful.
And all of a sudden these bigcompanies that historically have
been fantastic are suddenlylaying off thousands of people.
Now, if you think about it, thisclass is also the class that has
(17:40):
experienced a completelydifferent experience every
single year of
Eloy (17:44):
Mm-hmm.
Christine (17:45):
freshman year to their senior year, they have had
to adapt every single time.
And they're also the class thatreally came of age during the
last recession of 2008.
So many of them also experiencedthe impact of that on their
families and on their parents.
So I think it's.
Not really a surprise that formany of them, they're actually
gravitating towards more whatthey consider stable companies
(18:08):
or stable positions.
So our top 10 searched companieson Handshake is actually a list
of companies that we have allheard of.
For over 50 plus years, you'relooking at Raytheon and Nike and
Capital One, right?
Like these are the tried andtrue companies that have sort of
stood the test of time andthey've seen the economy up and
down and they've sort of made itessentially.
(18:31):
And so this class is reallylooking for that sense of
stability, that sense ofprofessional advancement, and
they're more willing to considerother types of industries than
maybe what they had first goneinto thinking when they were.
Entering their senior year, soover 36% of our students are
saying, I'm open to thinkingabout how my skills could be
(18:51):
applied to a different industryor a different role or a
different sector, and I thinkthat's very promising actually.
We know that our federalgovernment hiring is actually up
36% this year compared to lastyear, and the reality is we know
that this generation has verylittle faith.
In a lot of our institutions,the federal government being one
of them.
And so I think with that though,means that we need some change.
(19:12):
We need some infusion of newideas and new blood.
And I hope that for many ofthese students, they will take
their very fantastic skills andthey will apply it in some of
the areas and sectors that quitefrankly, as a society, we need
the most.
Eloy (19:24):
Wow.
I think that's a reallyinteresting point that you make.
not only are you're helpingthese students, but you're also
generating quite a bit ofinformation and data and
insights into how they'rethinking.
It's, it'll be interesting tosee how, how that further
supports building out thenetwork.
Now, you, you mentioned, a lotof these tech for firms laying
off and I think you'vetraditionally been supporting,
(19:47):
current grads, recent grads.
Are any of these, recent, folkswho have been laid off trying to
access your platform, and, andthis is, would this be a good
platform for them to access?
Christine (19:58):
Certainly we have a number of young alumni who also
come back to Handshake andcontinue to look for maybe their
second job or their third job,whether they were laid off or
not.
Um, many had success with theirfirst job, and so they're coming
back to us and they'reessentially growing, and I would
say we're growing with them.
We had a chance to help themthrough their four years, help
them get into their first job,and for some of them we're now
(20:19):
helping them with their, withtheir next step.
So Handshake is absolutely agreat place for you to come back
and continue to look for that.
That next opportunity.
And I think as we continue toevolve and grow, we will
continue to have more and more,seasoned positions as well.
Eloy (20:35):
You mentioned a lot of the challenges that you're trying to
solve for what do, what do youthink are the greatest pain
points in matching students withhiring managers that you need to
solve for today?
Christine (20:46):
I think it starts with being able to articulate
what the employer wants and whatthe student has, which is
actually a very core and basicfundamental problem that has
existed for a really long time.
Technology is fantastic at beingable to help make connections or
help recommend or suggestparticular people and or jobs,
(21:08):
but only if you have good datathat you're working with.
And so a lot of that comes downfirst to what we were talking
about with skills-based hiring.
Can the employer actuallyarticulate what they need?
What is it that they need andwhat are those particular
skills?
And I would also say thisgeneration, because they care
about working for companies thatalign with their values and they
(21:32):
are looking for also certaintypes of benefits that will
treat them well As an employee,employers need to be able to
articulate some of those pieces.
It's not good enough to justhave your job description and
maybe salary.
You need to actually.
Be able to articulate the otherthings that your company stands
for, uh, the values that youespouse and the benefits that
you provide, Those are differentfactors that students look at,
(21:55):
and the better articulated thatis from the employer side.
The better we can help match toa particular student.
On the student side, I think oneof the hardest challenges is
that the language in academia isnot the language in industry.
And so for a lot of students,they don't know how to translate
the experiences they've had atschool or through their
(22:16):
co-curriculars or in theircoursework or in their projects
in a way that resonates with theway an employer might talk
about.
Those particular skills.
And I think that's actuallywhere there's a lot of
opportunity for our colleaguesin career services, for example,
to be that translator and to bethat bridge between the faculty
and academia as well as therecruiters and employers, and to
(22:38):
help the students start tolearn, oh, when you talk about
this this way, you actuallyprobably wanna say it like this
on your resume, or you wanna sayit like this in an interview so
that it can help to bridge thatgap.
Eloy (22:48):
You're obviously very excited about the work that's
going on at Handshake and for agood reason.
What excites you the most?
Your, your leading educationstrategy.
What excites you the most aboutwhat you're doing now, what it
might mean to students in thefuture?
I.
Christine (23:02):
what I'm excited about the most is actually being
able to truly marry the best oftechnology with the best of
Eloy (23:09):
Mm-hmm.
Christine (23:10):
I think that alone is something that we don't talk
about enough in, in tech.
I think often people wanna, youmentioned it about a S U G S V I
think sometimes people talkabout tech being the, the all
saving grace of all of theproblems that you're gonna have.
And I just don't believe that.
I believe that tech is a reallypowerful enabler, but it also
(23:32):
needs to be partnered with thehuman touch and with humans who
also add their expertise to it.
So at Handshake in particular,One of the, the biggest
initiatives that we're workingon right now that I'm quite
excited about is how do we givestudents access to all of the
opportunities that exist onhandshake, while also building
the world's most powerfulcuration tools for our
(23:54):
institutions and for ourschools.
To be able to layer on theirknowledge and expertise of their
student population, of whattheir students enjoy and like so
that students can have the mostrelevant recommendations and
experience when they come ontoHandshake.
That is not only matched fortheir affinity to their
institution, but also to theirown personal interests and
(24:16):
desires.
And I think being able to doboth of those things, Is
powerful and it helps a studentto feel as if they truly have a
community, both locally as wellas a bit more expanded.
And I think that can change theconfidence that a student has
going into this first internshipor this first job, which by all
accounts is one of the mostanxiety ridden experience that
(24:39):
most students would say theyhave.
Eloy (24:41):
Well, I would agree with that.
As we, begin to wrap things up,let me ask you this.
We, we've mentioned our, ourtime at A S U G S V, and it's
always interesting.
There's always a lot going onthere, lots of people.
I mean, it was so crowded thistime around.
What are some of the thoughtsand insights that you walked
away, with when you were leavinga S U G S V?
(25:02):
What struck you?
Christine (25:04):
Well, I always enjoyed my time there.
There's no shortage of ideas,uh, that come out of that
conference.
I think one of the things that,that strikes me the most though,
is, We don't truly have the fullecosystem present at that
conference.
That conference primarily hasVbcs and EdTech.
(25:25):
And so you look at a lot oftechnology providers and I heard
a lot of conversation amongst alot of people about how tech was
gonna disrupt this and tech wasgonna solve this, and so on and
so forth.
And again, it goes back to mynotion that technology is a
fantastic enabler, but there arepeople on the ground that are
doing this work.
Day in and day out with ourstudents.
(25:46):
And the only way for us to havetrue systemic change is to
ensure that we are engagingthose individuals, making sure
that they're bought in so thatthey can help usher this change
and more importantly, sustainit.
Because otherwise, all of thesefantastic ideas aren't going to
stick, and they're not going tohave the impact that we're
(26:08):
looking to have with students.
And so I think it's veryimportant, to actually view.
What are the strengths oftechnology?
What are the strengths of thepeople on the ground, and how
can we find a way to actuallysee ourselves as one team that's
working together rather than,you know, if you actually think
about, um, children around theage of two or three, they often
(26:31):
aren't playing with each other.
They're in parallel play.
So they're playing next to eachother, but they're not actually
playing with each other.
And I think sometimes when welook at technology and
education, that's exactly what'shappening.
We're playing next to eachother, but we're not always
playing with each other.
And I think it would be quiteimportant for us in the future
as we continue to find ways toplay with each other so that we
(26:52):
can actually optimize for thestrengths that both parties
bring together.
Eloy (26:56):
Well, Christine, handshake is very fortunate to have your
insights and perspective, and Ireally do appreciate you taking
the time outta your busyschedule to spend time with me
here on the Ran.
Christine (27:08):
Thank you for having me.
This was fantastic.
Eloy (27:10):
All right.
Well, everyone, thanks forjoining me on the rant.
I've just had a greatconversation with Christine and
talking about the great workthat's happening at Handshake.
If you enjoyed this episode, hitthe like button and leave me
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Thanks for joining us, and we'llsee you soon.
Hi everyone.
I'm Eloy Ortiz Oakley, andwelcome back to the Ran the
podcast where we pull back thecurtain and break down the
people, the policies, and thepolitics of our higher education
system.
In this episode, I'm lookingback at my experiences at the
recent A S U G S V conference inSan Diego.
And hearing from interestingpeople who are doing amazing
(00:31):
work in the field.
This is the first in a series ofepisodes where I'll be taking
some time and talking to someinteresting innovators in the
post-secondary education spacewho I just happened to run into
at A S U G S V today.
I'll be talking with ChristineCruz Vergara Chief Education
Strategy Officer at Handshake,which is a technology platform
(00:55):
to help students in recentgrads.
Find their next opportunity.
And before I welcome Christine,I do need to say that I am
currently a member of theHandshake Impact Advisory Board.
So with that out of the way,welcome to the podcast,
Christine.
Christine (01:11):
Thanks, Eloy.
Excited to be here with you.
Eloy (01:13):
All right, well let's, let's start off with, pretty
straightforward question.
Tell us a little bit about, you,uh, tell us a little bit about
Christine, you lead educationstrategy for Handshake.
How did you get to this, um, tothis role at Handshake?
And tell us a little bit aboutyour own education and
professional journey.
Christine (01:31):
Sure.
So my background is actually inhigher education.
I spent the first part of mycareer working in higher ed,
primarily four year institutionsup and down the east coast.
I always say an easy way toremember is that I worked at all
of the.
Georges in the DC area, gw,Georgetown and George Mason.
Then we're to be the associateProvost at Wellesley College
(01:53):
outside of Boston.
So I do have experience at bothlarge and small institutions,
public and private institutions.
Non elite institutions.
The most, I think, common threadthroughout my career, especially
as I look back, is that I reallyled change management at a lot
of the different places that Iworked.
I was recruited by institutionswho needed to rethink and wanted
(02:15):
to rethink what career educationcould look like for their
students and how it could bemore deeply embedded into the
fabric and mission for thatschool and.
That was a lot of the work thatI did previously, and it's what
actually brought me to Handshakeand to think about the work that
could be done at scale acrossthousands of institutions and
(02:36):
across millions of students.
So now I have the privilege ofbeing able to work at Handshake
and work with over 1400universities and colleges as our
partners, and to really helpensure that they and their
students are able to besuccessful in finding the next
internship or the next full-timejob.
Eloy (02:54):
So when you were a student yourself, did you have anything
like handshake or what, whatparts of your own personal
experience going from educationto a job sort of sticks with you
in, in this new role?
Christine (03:06):
the part that actually sticks with me the most
is being a daughter of
Eloy (03:09):
Mm-hmm.
Christine (03:10):
So both of my parents immigrated here.
They worked.
Multiple jobs often, And both ofthem at one point or another
went to community college.
My dad did end up getting hisassociate's degree and
eventually went on to get his,his bachelor's and even his
master's.
But that was over the course ofmy entire life, The thing that
my parents.
(03:30):
Sort of push the most was thateducation truly can change your
future.
And education is the tool forsocial mobility.
And so if you wanna besuccessful, you have to go to
school.
So I always believed in theimportance of higher education,
but I definitely did not haveanything like handshake when I
was school didn't exist, right?
(03:51):
Platforms like that didn't quiteexist yet.
And I think what really struckme is that I was only exposed to
a very small, narrow set ofcareers, and it was really
either what my parents did, whatmy friend's parents did, or what
I saw on tv.
And to be perfectly honest,that's still pretty true for
most students, even though theyhave more access to information.
(04:13):
When you're 18, 19 years oldgoing to school, that is still
primarily what you know.
And so a tool like Handshake andour partners in career services
are now able to help students ata younger age be exposed to a
number of other career paths oropportunities that they might
wanna consider and just try andsee if they like him.
Eloy (04:33):
I think that's a, a great way to put it because that
certainly was my experience.
the opportunities that you seeare only those that are closest
around you and if, and if you'renot seeing other opportunities
and you're not thinking aboutthose opportunities.
And so it's really about thenetwork that you have and your
ability to, to accessinformation about what else
(04:53):
might be available to you.
Christine (04:55):
That's right.
Eloy (04:56):
Let's talk about Handshake then.
Handshake helps connect recentgrads to, to jobs.
you mentioned a little bit ofthat.
It's a, it's a platform and Ithink as a parent I wish all my
kids would jump on.
But, um, uh, tell us a littlebit more about Handshake.
How has it evolved and whatexcites you about the work that
Handshake is engaging in today?
Christine (05:16):
Let me start by actually giving you the founding
story of Handshake, becausethat's really at the core of how
and why we do the work that wedo.
So Handshake was founded bythree students, uh, Garrett,
Scott, and Ben.
They all went to Michigan Tech,and for those of you that are
unfamiliar with Michigan Tech,it is in the upper peninsula of
Michigan and gets about 300inches of snow a year.
(05:37):
So as you can imagine, that verymuch limited the types of
employers that were actuallygoing on campus and recruiting.
And what the co-founders foundwas that they wanted to work at
companies that weren't coming totheir school and that their
career center didn't haverelationships with.
They had no way of gettingconnected to the types of
(05:57):
companies that were in SiliconValley.
Or these big brand names thatwere outside of the Midwest, and
so they started asking aroundand they started calling.
That's actually how I metGarrett, our co-founder and C E
o I was at George Mason at thetime.
He was a student.
He called for an informationalinterview.
I said yes, and we ended uphaving a conversation about his
(06:18):
experience and he wanted toknow, is it this hard for other
students at the schools that Ihad been at to get access to the
types of employers that theywanted?
And I said, you know, it's notbecause of geography or snow,
but Yes.
You know, I was working at Masonat the time and I said, we're
not the flagship institution ofVirginia.
We also have a lot ofprestigious institutions in DC
that I have to compete with.
(06:40):
It is harder for me to getemployers to consider my
students.
Even though the Mason graduatesare phenomenal, they have so
much talent, but it is harder toattract that, those employers.
So he said, well, let me try andsee if I can come up with
something that could help withthis problem, and I'll come back
to you.
Honestly, I didn't think I wouldhear from him, but nine months
later I did, and him and theco-founders had come up with
(07:03):
Handshake and what I think is socool about Handshake and how
it's evolved is that.
Handshake fundamentally hasreally tried to actually change
the system.
When we talk about systemicchange, that is what Handshake
has attempted to do.
So when Handshake first cameinto the market, it came on as a
network, and that's.
(07:24):
Fundamentally very differentthan what existed back then.
What existed back then wereclosed enterprise systems that
each school would purchase andthen
Eloy (07:34):
Mm-hmm.
Christine (07:34):
And so the only employers that were going to
that school were still the onlyemployers that would be willing
to recruit at that particularinstitution, and instead a, a
employer would have to log intotens of thousands of different.
Systems, They have to log intoeach one and they have to post
(07:55):
their position or positions overand over and over and over
again.
And as you can imagine, asrecruiters, they have limited
time.
So what this did was it resultedin a lot of employers saying, I
only recruit at my 10 coreschools.
Or I only worked at my 20 topschools, right?
But all of this talent existedat hundreds, thousands of other
(08:17):
institutions that they weren'ttapping into.
So when Handshake became anetwork, they said, you only
have to log into one system andyou can actually post and
recruit across all of ourhandshake schools.
And so what happened was, as.
New institutions startedjoining.
Every single institution saw a200 to 300% increase in the
(08:37):
number of employers andopportunities for their
students.
Nobody, nobody lost.
Nobody lost because equity isnot a zero sum game.
So it, it was quite powerful tobe able to see that.
And as we continue to evolve,we're very focused on making
sure that we continue to liveout our mission of democratizing
access to students and to, totheir opportunities.
(08:59):
and we wanna do it in the mostengaging way possible so that
students feel like they bothhave.
Humans in their life, like theircareer centers and their
advisors, but they also haveaccess to this information and
to these opportunities andtogether that is very powerful.
Eloy (09:14):
Well, I'm glad to hear that there are still humans
involved because after A S U G SV, it made me think that, the
day of the human is over.
Now, a a lot of what youmentioned really is about
accessing networks, accessinginformation.
And certainly for me that's,that's powerful because the
kinds of students that I've.
Worked with It is that lack ofinformation, that lack of having
(09:36):
access to a network that reallystalls your ability to find the
kinds of opportunities that.
you're really hoping, uh, toget, to get at and you hear
about, the other institutionshaving, the big employers show
up at the business school andhave access there.
So have you actually seenthrough your platform,
(09:57):
individuals and, and collegesand universities from parts of
the country that have not alwayshad the kind of access that the
big universities always,highlight?
Ha Have you seen them havegreater access?
Christine (10:10):
We have absolutely.
There's actually a reallyinteresting story that we just
heard from one of our campuspartners.
Palm Beach Atlantic, uh, wasrecently just telling us that
one of their students not onlyapplied to a job at Goldman
Sachs, which as you can imagine,Goldman is not going to Palm
Beach Atlantic.
But they got an interview andthey ended up getting an offer.
And so that was really exciting.
(10:31):
That's, that's a great exampleof the types of stories that we
actually hear very regularly,and we know from many of our
employer partners, they havebeen able to two x three x,
sometimes four x, the number ofdiverse candidates that they
find because they're able toactually recruit across multiple
institutions and not just theirtop 20 are their top 30.
Eloy (10:51):
So at A S U G S V, you were on a panel that, was
discussing skills-based hiringand, and this notion of
skills-based hiring has been, inthe news quite a bit.
There's been a lot of peopletalking about it.
I know my friends over at Jobsfor the Future.
I think, uh, Maria Flynn wasyour moderator has been really
focused on this issue.
(11:11):
From the handshake perspective,from your perspective, what does
skills-based hiring actuallymean and look like?
Christine (11:18):
Skill space hiring is about looking at a candidate and
assessing whether or not theyhave the skills that are
necessary for the job ratherthan simply relying on their
credentials.
Their degree or their major as amajor educator for whether or
not they can do the job.
And we are seeing more and moreemployers talk about wanting to
do skills-based hiring or tryingto dip their toe into
(11:42):
skills-based hiring and figureout how can we actually do that.
So I think a lot of employersfor us are really asking
themselves the question.
What are actually the skillsthat are needed to do this job
rather than say, what is themajor or what is the degree that
is needed to do this job?
And often we just simply usedegrees or majors as a
Eloy (12:02):
Right.
Christine (12:03):
for collection of skills.
And so it's just a matter ofhaving to breakthrough and say,
okay, well if you say that youwant a psychology major or you
want an economics major, or youwant an engineering major, why?
What are you assuming that thatmajor.
Has or comes with, and it'shelping employers to break that
down to the skill level so thatthey can actually find students
(12:24):
who maybe don't have thatdegree, but actually do have
that skill.
One of the things that we foundwas really, quite impressive in
one of our most recent reportsis that, Over 80% of our
non-technical majors in theclass of 2023 actually have tech
skills.
Whether that's data analysis,whether that's it, whether
that's software engineering andit's, it may be self-taught or
(12:46):
they may have gone through acredentialing program or a
bootcamp or something else ontheir own, but that's a really
great example of where you mightbe leaving talent on the table
because you're not thinkingabout those particular skills.
Eloy (12:57):
And so with these changes happening and, and I, which I
think are, are good changeswe've been talking about sort of
breaking down, some of thebiases that employers have had
for, for decades.
and just focusing on the proxyof that, uh, that degree.
What would this mean?
What would a skill-based hiringecosystem mean for the way that
(13:18):
Handshake operates?
Christine (13:19):
There are different components to this.
I think the first is actuallyhelping students to articulate
the skills that they have,right?
So one of the things that werecently just implemented, uh,
sounds very basic and verysimple, but is actually
incredibly helpful in the searchprocess, which is helping with
the, skills taxonomy andactually making sure that when a
student enters the skill thatthey have, they're able to
(13:42):
select, for example, PowerPoint.
Because Eloy, you would notimagine the number of different
variations that you could write,that you have PowerPoint skills.
They're 17 to be exact, right?
And so something as simple asthat is actually really
important for a tech platformbecause if one person puts P P
T, another person writes outMicrosoft PowerPoint, another
(14:02):
one writes PowerPoint, right?
You're gonna get so manydifferent variations when an
employer goes to select orsearch for that skill.
They're not gonna put in 17different versions of that.
Right, and so then you end upagain missing a population of
students.
But when we can actuallystandardize that, so you start
typing in PowerPoint, we giveyou the suggestion, you select
(14:23):
it, it all of a sudden it makesit so much easier for an
employer to be able to do that.
Excel is another great exampleof a very common skill that
employers search for, but peoplewrite it a number of different
ways, and so that is one of thethings that we've already
started to do in Handshake.
The other pieces that we wannastart thinking about are how can
we surface insights and datathat allows a student to know as
(14:46):
they continue to click on jobsor internships that are
interesting to them?
It seems like you're reallyinterested in X, and all of
those job descriptions seem torequire or prefer X, y, and Z
skills.
We see that your profile haslisted.
Two out of the five skills, doyou have these other three
skills?
And prompt them to either enterit if they haven't or if they
(15:09):
don't one day.
I think we would love to be ableto actually connect them to a
learning marketplace where theymight be able to get those
skills and where they canactually start to acquire some
of those additional skills thatcan make them a more competitive
candidate.
So those are some of the ideasthat we're starting to float and
bounce around at
Eloy (15:26):
I, I think that last idea is, is such a wonderful,
opportunity.
This is something that.
We've been talking about for along time, which is how can we
more personalize the, educationand workforce experience for,
for the learner?
How, how do we give them moreinformation so that they make
more and better choices about,uh, where they can go and, and
(15:49):
actually help them think aboutwhat would be next?
just as you said, if they'remissing one skill and that one
skill could get them into adifferent kind of job.
Be wonderful if they had thatinformation, and then the
opportunity to see where theymight get that skill.
Christine (16:04):
that's right.
Eloy (16:05):
So Handshake serves a lot of different types of, learners,
recent grads, current students,and a lot of different
generations.
And you serve a lot of, um, genZ students.
What, what are some of thetrends that you're seeing in
this generation of job seekerand what are the challenges in
serving?
(16:26):
Different generations of jobseekers.
And do you see any differencesin the way that employers think
about them in their recruitmentand hiring practices?
Christine (16:33):
I'll start by talking about this particular class The
class of 2023, we actuallysurveyed three different times
this year to get a gauge theirsentiment and what was important
for them.
One of the most interestingthings I think for me to
highlight is this particularclass is seeking stability.
At the beginning of this schoolyear, 74% of this class said
(16:54):
that stability was one of thetop factors in whether or not
they would look at a company ora particular job.
And as we went into the springsemester, that number increased
to 85%.
And I'm not at all surprised bythat.
And I think the reason being isthey came back to spring
semester and they saw headlineafter headline after headline of
(17:16):
layoff.
Especially with big tech, andthese are companies that, for
most of them, throughout themajority of their lifetime, they
saw growing very, very quicklyand being very, very successful.
And all of a sudden these bigcompanies that historically have
been fantastic are suddenlylaying off thousands of people.
Now, if you think about it, thisclass is also the class that has
(17:40):
experienced a completelydifferent experience every
single year of
Eloy (17:44):
Mm-hmm.
Christine (17:45):
freshman year to their senior year, they have had
to adapt every single time.
And they're also the class thatreally came of age during the
last recession of 2008.
So many of them also experiencedthe impact of that on their
families and on their parents.
So I think it's.
Not really a surprise that formany of them, they're actually
gravitating towards more whatthey consider stable companies
(18:08):
or stable positions.
So our top 10 searched companieson Handshake is actually a list
of companies that we have allheard of.
For over 50 plus years, you'relooking at Raytheon and Nike and
Capital One, right?
Like these are the tried andtrue companies that have sort of
stood the test of time andthey've seen the economy up and
down and they've sort of made itessentially.
(18:31):
And so this class is reallylooking for that sense of
stability, that sense ofprofessional advancement, and
they're more willing to considerother types of industries than
maybe what they had first goneinto thinking when they were.
Entering their senior year, soover 36% of our students are
saying, I'm open to thinkingabout how my skills could be
(18:51):
applied to a different industryor a different role or a
different sector, and I thinkthat's very promising actually.
We know that our federalgovernment hiring is actually up
36% this year compared to lastyear, and the reality is we know
that this generation has verylittle faith.
In a lot of our institutions,the federal government being one
of them.
And so I think with that though,means that we need some change.
(19:12):
We need some infusion of newideas and new blood.
And I hope that for many ofthese students, they will take
their very fantastic skills andthey will apply it in some of
the areas and sectors that quitefrankly, as a society, we need
the most.
Eloy (19:24):
Wow.
I think that's a reallyinteresting point that you make.
not only are you're helpingthese students, but you're also
generating quite a bit ofinformation and data and
insights into how they'rethinking.
It's, it'll be interesting tosee how, how that further
supports building out thenetwork.
Now, you, you mentioned, a lotof these tech for firms laying
off and I think you'vetraditionally been supporting,
(19:47):
current grads, recent grads.
Are any of these, recent, folkswho have been laid off trying to
access your platform, and, andthis is, would this be a good
platform for them to access?
Christine (19:58):
Certainly we have a number of young alumni who also
come back to Handshake andcontinue to look for maybe their
second job or their third job,whether they were laid off or
not.
Um, many had success with theirfirst job, and so they're coming
back to us and they'reessentially growing, and I would
say we're growing with them.
We had a chance to help themthrough their four years, help
them get into their first job,and for some of them we're now
(20:19):
helping them with their, withtheir next step.
So Handshake is absolutely agreat place for you to come back
and continue to look for that.
That next opportunity.
And I think as we continue toevolve and grow, we will
continue to have more and more,seasoned positions as well.
Eloy (20:35):
You mentioned a lot of the challenges that you're trying to
solve for what do, what do youthink are the greatest pain
points in matching students withhiring managers that you need to
solve for today?
Christine (20:46):
I think it starts with being able to articulate
what the employer wants and whatthe student has, which is
actually a very core and basicfundamental problem that has
existed for a really long time.
Technology is fantastic at beingable to help make connections or
help recommend or suggestparticular people and or jobs,
(21:08):
but only if you have good datathat you're working with.
And so a lot of that comes downfirst to what we were talking
about with skills-based hiring.
Can the employer actuallyarticulate what they need?
What is it that they need andwhat are those particular
skills?
And I would also say thisgeneration, because they care
about working for companies thatalign with their values and they
(21:32):
are looking for also certaintypes of benefits that will
treat them well As an employee,employers need to be able to
articulate some of those pieces.
It's not good enough to justhave your job description and
maybe salary.
You need to actually.
Be able to articulate the otherthings that your company stands
for, uh, the values that youespouse and the benefits that
you provide, Those are differentfactors that students look at,
(21:55):
and the better articulated thatis from the employer side.
The better we can help match toa particular student.
On the student side, I think oneof the hardest challenges is
that the language in academia isnot the language in industry.
And so for a lot of students,they don't know how to translate
the experiences they've had atschool or through their
(22:16):
co-curriculars or in theircoursework or in their projects
in a way that resonates with theway an employer might talk
about.
Those particular skills.
And I think that's actuallywhere there's a lot of
opportunity for our colleaguesin career services, for example,
to be that translator and to bethat bridge between the faculty
and academia as well as therecruiters and employers, and to
(22:38):
help the students start tolearn, oh, when you talk about
this this way, you actuallyprobably wanna say it like this
on your resume, or you wanna sayit like this in an interview so
that it can help to bridge thatgap.
Eloy (22:48):
You're obviously very excited about the work that's
going on at Handshake and for agood reason.
What excites you the most?
Your, your leading educationstrategy.
What excites you the most aboutwhat you're doing now, what it
might mean to students in thefuture?
I.
Christine (23:02):
what I'm excited about the most is actually being
able to truly marry the best oftechnology with the best of
Eloy (23:09):
Mm-hmm.
Christine (23:10):
I think that alone is something that we don't talk
about enough in, in tech.
I think often people wanna, youmentioned it about a S U G S V I
think sometimes people talkabout tech being the, the all
saving grace of all of theproblems that you're gonna have.
And I just don't believe that.
I believe that tech is a reallypowerful enabler, but it also
(23:32):
needs to be partnered with thehuman touch and with humans who
also add their expertise to it.
So at Handshake in particular,One of the, the biggest
initiatives that we're workingon right now that I'm quite
excited about is how do we givestudents access to all of the
opportunities that exist onhandshake, while also building
the world's most powerfulcuration tools for our
(23:54):
institutions and for ourschools.
To be able to layer on theirknowledge and expertise of their
student population, of whattheir students enjoy and like so
that students can have the mostrelevant recommendations and
experience when they come ontoHandshake.
That is not only matched fortheir affinity to their
institution, but also to theirown personal interests and
(24:16):
desires.
And I think being able to doboth of those things, Is
powerful and it helps a studentto feel as if they truly have a
community, both locally as wellas a bit more expanded.
And I think that can change theconfidence that a student has
going into this first internshipor this first job, which by all
accounts is one of the mostanxiety ridden experience that
(24:39):
most students would say theyhave.
Eloy (24:41):
Well, I would agree with that.
As we, begin to wrap things up,let me ask you this.
We, we've mentioned our, ourtime at A S U G S V, and it's
always interesting.
There's always a lot going onthere, lots of people.
I mean, it was so crowded thistime around.
What are some of the thoughtsand insights that you walked
away, with when you were leavinga S U G S V?
(25:02):
What struck you?
Christine (25:04):
Well, I always enjoyed my time there.
There's no shortage of ideas,uh, that come out of that
conference.
I think one of the things that,that strikes me the most though,
is, We don't truly have the fullecosystem present at that
conference.
That conference primarily hasVbcs and EdTech.
(25:25):
And so you look at a lot oftechnology providers and I heard
a lot of conversation amongst alot of people about how tech was
gonna disrupt this and tech wasgonna solve this, and so on and
so forth.
And again, it goes back to mynotion that technology is a
fantastic enabler, but there arepeople on the ground that are
doing this work.
Day in and day out with ourstudents.
(25:46):
And the only way for us to havetrue systemic change is to
ensure that we are engagingthose individuals, making sure
that they're bought in so thatthey can help usher this change
and more importantly, sustainit.
Because otherwise, all of thesefantastic ideas aren't going to
stick, and they're not going tohave the impact that we're
(26:08):
looking to have with students.
And so I think it's veryimportant, to actually view.
What are the strengths oftechnology?
What are the strengths of thepeople on the ground, and how
can we find a way to actuallysee ourselves as one team that's
working together rather than,you know, if you actually think
about, um, children around theage of two or three, they often
(26:31):
aren't playing with each other.
They're in parallel play.
So they're playing next to eachother, but they're not actually
playing with each other.
And I think sometimes when welook at technology and
education, that's exactly what'shappening.
We're playing next to eachother, but we're not always
playing with each other.
And I think it would be quiteimportant for us in the future
as we continue to find ways toplay with each other so that we
(26:52):
can actually optimize for thestrengths that both parties
bring together.
Eloy (26:56):
Well, Christine, handshake is very fortunate to have your
insights and perspective, and Ireally do appreciate you taking
the time outta your busyschedule to spend time with me
here on the Ran.
Christine (27:08):
Thank you for having me.
This was fantastic.
Eloy (27:10):
All right.
Well, everyone, thanks forjoining me on the rant.
I've just had a greatconversation with Christine and
talking about the great workthat's happening at Handshake.
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