June 27, 2023 • 27 mins
This is the fourth in a series of episodes where I interview interesting innovators that I ran into at the recent ASU + GSV Summit. In this episode I talk with Deborah Quazzo, Managing Partner at GSV Ventures and Co-founder of the ASU+GSV Summit. Deborah shares her experiences in ed tech, how her team partnered with ASU, her personal journey and she highlights the work happening with the ASU+GSV Summit in 2024 and beyond.
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Eloy (00:09):
Hi, I'm Eloy Ortiz Oakley, and welcome back to the Rent the
podcast where we pull back thecurtain and break down the
people, the policies, and thepolitics of our higher education
system.
In this episode, I finalized myconversations with key
innovators that I ran into.
At the recent ASU G S V Summitin San Diego, today I'm talking
(00:29):
with Deborah Qua, managingpartner at GSV Ventures and
co-founder of the ASU GSVSummit.
Welcome to the rant, Deborah.
Eloy & Deborah (00:39):
Thank you, Eloy.
It is, delightful to be here.
to
Eloy (00:42):
great to see you as well.
So let's jump into some of thesequestions.
Deborah, you are the managingpartner at GSV Ventures and the
co-founder of the ASU GSVSummit, which is now, I think in
its 14th year.
Eloy & Deborah (00:55):
We just finished the 14th
Eloy (00:57):
finished the
Eloy & Deborah (00:58):
We got, yeah, well, COVID sort of messed us up
a little bit, but we startstarted, we did start in 2010
and we just finished the 14thevent and so next year will be
our 15th event.
Eloy (01:06):
time flies.
Eloy & Deborah (01:07):
Yep.
I know.
Eloy (01:09):
So for our listeners, tell us a little bit about yourself
and what led you to yourinterest in education
technology, and also tell us alittle bit about GSV Ventures
and how you wound up partneringwith Michael Crow and Arizona
State University to launch allof this.
Eloy & Deborah (01:25):
I, I have been working with my partner Michael
Mo, in education innovation andeducation technology for.
Frighteningly over, 25 years.
And so, we're embarra, we hit 25and we decided not to add any
more years onto it.
So it is over 25 now.
We're just gonna go with over 25years, until it, you know, until
it gets to a hundred orsomething.
But, so we've been working along time in the sector,
(01:47):
obviously way before any, what,anything material was happening
as it related to the applicationof technology.
and.
And I, and we did that asinvestment bankers and research
analysts and conveners andthings and things like that over
the initial period.
and that's kind of how we, howwe came at it initially back in
20, probably 2009 or so, MichaelMo had the incredible
(02:09):
opportunity to join aninnovation committee at Arizona
State.
Neither one of us had any alumnitie but he got a bit of a chance
to see what Michael Crow hadgoing on under the hood.
Cause in 20.
2010, as you remember, Eloy, itwould not have been an obvious
choice to align yourself withArizona State.
If you were trying to say that,you know, you were, you were,
(02:31):
you wanted to do somethingrelated to being a leader in
technology and a leader atacademic performance and all
that sort of thing.
they were the largest publicuniversity.
But had yet to begin to turnover the cards in terms of what
Michael Crow had going on underthe hood, to, to basically
transform the university into aplace that was measured by the
Im its impact on students.
(02:52):
Not, not the students.
They kept out, but the, but,but.
Through the admissions of, ofmore and more students and
putting those more and morestudents through to great, to
great success.
So we were very fortunate whenwe, when we did that partnering
back in 20, you know, as thefirst event was 2010, so back in
2009 or whatever, whatever theoriginal set of meetings was.
Michael really at some pointsuggests Michael Mo suggested to
(03:14):
Michael Pro that why don't youtry to do some sort of,
convening That really showcasedwhat, what was going on in the
world of education, innovationand transformation.
And particularly, as it relatedto, the application of
technology when we started asu,I think had four technology
partners today they probablyhave 4,000.
If you really, if you really gotin there and tried to count
(03:34):
them, So it was, it was a reallyfortuitous partnering that
happened.
It's been, it, you know, prettyremarkable to, to be a partner
with.
The largest public university inthe country for 15 years and
have it be so smooth.
And they even joined us inpartnering on a smaller event.
We did this February and in in,in India because they're
obviously, spreading their wingsinto global markets all over the
(03:58):
world.
And so it's really been terrificit's really, it's been
remarkable and it's, it's givenus a, it's also given us such a
window.
I mean, they're an innovationmachine and, and, and for us to
be able to you know, go on tocampus.
And I tell people all the time,if you've got two days to do a,
to do a road trip to ArizonaState and just see the kinds of
innovation that's, that'shappening there, on a thousand
(04:20):
different levels, you know, Ihighly recommend it.
It can be transformative, but,But yeah, so that was really the
history.
I got passionate.
I was really, as an investmentbanker I, it became obvious to
me that that, you know, the,the, the wedge of, of innovation
and being able to deliver highquality education at scale, to
many millions of people, notonly in the United States, but
in the world, was something thatwas.
(04:41):
One of the few thing, few leverswe have to make a difference.
I know that's, that's somethingpreaching to the choir on that
one.
But, that's, that's kind of whenI got hooked and and realized
that we could do more than, thanwe could, you know, to being a
trans, you know, some, somebodywho was transacting in the
sector to actually be veryinvolved philanthropically from
a policy perspective.
(05:02):
And then from this conveningperspective, I think it's, you
know, we are really.
Proud of the, what we builtstarting in, you know, 2010 we
were back at Arizona StateSkySong facility in, in
Scottsdale's we like to say 350people in sweaty conference
rooms.
And we were able to, you know,outgrow that.
And and this year, You know, hadrecord attendance, you know,
with over 7,000 peopleregistered.
(05:23):
And and, and some were just,just under 7,000 being there
live.
Although I hear from lots of,lots of folks that there are
probably 3000 people who don't,who don't, who, who are, who are
there, who don't pay and then,but are hanging around, hanging
around.
the event.
and that's, and that's all greattoo.
So I think anything we can doto, to, to catalyze These
diverse sets of humans from, youknow, that when we started this,
(05:46):
it was as my partner, MarkMichael said, a strange cocktail
of people who didn't typicallyget in the same room together.
So ed tech founders withphilanthropists, with investors,
with practitioners in the K-12,higher ed and workforce spaces.
So the whole idea is to reallymash people up and catalyze and
inspire people to take actions,as they come out of the event.
Eloy (06:07):
Well, having attended.
Many, ASU GSV summits.
I, I can say that yeah, I cansay that.
It has truly continued to grow.
it's a fun event.
lots of different people.
And where else can you see theundersecretary of Education with
a former Secretary of Educationwith some of the top ed tech,
(06:28):
founders altogether talkingabout how the federal government
regulates.
EdTech.
So I thought it was I, howeveryou landed on this, it's been,
it's been a lot of fun.
Now, A S U G S V highlights someof the more cutting edge ideas
and trends in educationtechnology.
I think anybody who works in andaround EdTech is there.
(06:51):
and as you said, you've been tomany of these, what excited you
about what you saw th at thisyear's summit in San Diego?
Eloy & Deborah (07:00):
we had already positioned the theme for, this
year, which was Brave New Worldand, and well ahead of the
emergence of, of, of chat G P Tand the whole G P T phenomenon.
So it turned out to be pretty,pretty fortuitous either
precedent or fortuitous orwhatever it was, it turned out
to be a pretty good theme forwhat's going on.
(07:20):
In the world.
so what we did was we, we'vealways had artificial
intelligence and emergingtechnologies embedded in the
program.
We, you know, from the, from thevery beginning, obviously it was
not generative art, artificialintelligence, since that really
is, is an, is something thatemerged in.
Fully emerged in in the Januarytime period.
but we've always had a big eyeon what things can, what, what
(07:41):
can, what kinds of technologiescan be leveraged to, to
accelerate learning.
And so to accelerate learning,to accelerate, you know,
assessment we all know we'resitting here.
We, massive learning loss.
It wasn't great going intoCovid.
We weren't you, we were noteducating enough of our
children, in the K-12 systemgoing into Covid, but coming
(08:01):
out, coming out of Covid.
And we're just, you know, We'recontinuing to see depressing
research released.
The research report from TomKane and Sean, from Harvard and
Stanford came out this week justagain reiterating that the loss
has not been recovered.
That, and then, and looking atlo location based analysis of
where that, where the losses arethe most severe, and trying to
(08:23):
also isolate factors that, thathave caused the severity and
what do we do to solve it.
So I think one of the, as youthink about.
That daunting challenge, whichthen as you well know, is
inherited into the higher edsystem and then is inherited
into the employment system.
And then, you know, the whole,whatever, 50, 60% of people
avoid, don't go into the highered system, go directly in the
(08:46):
employment system.
So, we've always viewed theemployer as the fourth education
system because they're having tobe right.
They're, they're inheritingfailures downstream, and
they're, and they're inheritingthe obsolete, the challenges of
obsolescence, you know, jobobsolescence.
So we, we do believe, you know,I appreciate there is the
positive and the negative aroundwhat's going on with generative
(09:07):
ai.
There was a, the Atlantic has abig article this week on just
the, the, the frustrations thatuniversity professors are, are,
are facing, particularly writingprofessors about, you know, what
do I do?
How do I address this?
When, when how, what, you know,how do you teach writing when
90% of your kids are using chatg b t or, or whatever.
But I, I, I really do think.
(09:27):
That issue aside, you know, thatissue, it's hard to put it
aside, but that issue, theability to, to leverage
generative AI in a way that,and, and non generative ai, in a
way that's, that can allow us toaccelerate learning, make it
personalized, help teachers andfaculty members, you know,
address more kids at disparatepoints of ability because of,
(09:49):
you know, learning they did ordidn't have, have in, in prior
periods.
I think it is a real cause foroptimism.
And there, you know, we had, Ithink the vast majority of
leading edge companies in the,in the generative AI space.
We also had.
you know, other companies likelike a company we've invested in
with Arizona State University,dreamscape Learn, which is a vr,
(10:10):
VR based platform, which willalso have embedded artificial
intelligence in it, you know,over time in, in its delivery.
But, but you know, thatcompany's seeing really
accelerated learning gains fromstudents that go through
biology, you know, using theDreamscape system.
So I think where we get excited,Because if you really look at it
(10:30):
and, and we've had a lot ofconversations about this.
We've been, you know, thesummit's in his 15th year and
we've, we've had, I don't knowhow many decades now, two
decades at least, of of ed techor the application of technology
to, to education and skills.
And we haven't made muchprogress.
and there are a lot of reasonsfor that.
(10:51):
It's not that all the ed tech'sbad, it's, you know, it's
certainly fidelity ofimplementation.
It's challenges that youngpeople face in their personal
lives.
It's challenges.
Teachers face, faculty, youknow, so it's a, they're a host
of issues.
for why we haven't been moresuccessful in moving the needle
on academic and skill,skill-based outcomes.
we have some real optimism andhopefulness that there is, that
(11:11):
we are at a moment of completerevolution.
And that there will be that,that the delivery of learning
can be transformed through theleveraging of some of these
technologies to supportteachers, faculty, students.
and that's where we get, moreoptimistic.
More hopeful.
And it's also, I think the otherthing that's kind of cool is,
and we saw it cuz there were somany, it's also drawing more
(11:33):
creative founders into the edtech sector.
So we're seeing people pouringout of Google, pouring out of, I
mean, you know, great leadersout of Google, great leaders
outta Microsoft, Amazon.
Certainly you'll see all, you'llsee some really exciting
companies created by veryexperienced, very smart people
who not only understand thetechnology.
(11:55):
But they also understand,education.
So they come out of the, youknow, they, a lot of them are
coming out of the educationefforts, so, Of, of those large
companies.
And, and so I think that's alsoexciting because it's sort of a
new wave.
You know, innovation requiresinnovate tours and great
innovate tours and, and andthat's true whether you're
talking about a company or auniversity or a a K-12 system or
(12:18):
the workforce.
We've seeing incredibleinnovations with K-12 teachers,
and, and principals and leadersand at the higher ed, higher ed
space as well.
So, while I think there is a lotof angst, there's certainly a, a
level of anxiety about what thismeans, you know, for your job or
how you, you know, how you haveto change things.
I do think net net is gonna giveus a shot at trying to.
(12:41):
trying to pull in these gapshave existed for too long, but
have been exacerbated by theyears in Covid and and are gonna
be even further exacerbated bythe rapid move
Eloy (12:53):
Mm-hmm.
Well, I'm hopeful as well.
I think this march towardpersonalization continues and I,
I've certainly seen progress,living, with a huge, education
organization pre pandemic andthen seeing it.
Quickly evolve through thepandemic and now post pandemic.
I definitely see the change.
Now you mentioned, moretraditional educators.
(13:16):
I know in my conversations withsome of the founders and some of
the ed tech folks, some of'emexpressed a desire to see more
traditional educators at.
At the summit, how do you thinkwe can pull them in and get them
to see the value of of hearingall this, great work that's
happening throughout the ed techsector?
Eloy & Deborah (13:35):
what we did this year, and I mean it, we are a
leadership summit, right?
A lot of great education eventsin K-12 higher ed and workforce,
and we've always wanted to carveout kind of our position as
intentionally focused on, on onleadership.
So we're, whether it's in K-12where we have a massive
scholarship program forprincipals and superintendents
(13:59):
in higher ed, we.
Really, and, and we doubled downon the K12 community piece.
We had over 1100, principals andsuperintendents representing 47
of 50 states, which is we, youknow, you know, off the charts.
and that was up, from maybe 800last year.
What we did on the higher edside, we actually were up by
three or four fold in the highered space.
(14:19):
we actually went outintentionally.
I think that we real, we cameoutta the summit in 2022.
We looked at atten, the attendeebase.
And we said, well actually, youknow, we have, and we, you know,
we sort of think of the summitin 10% blocks and we said, well,
we actually have 10% of the, ofattendees come from higher
education.
But when you peel it back, werealize that the numbers were
being dominated by the big guys,right?
So whether it was ASU or WesternGovernors or Southern New
(14:42):
Hampshire or, you know, folkslike that were sending large
numbers of people to the summitbecause it was so productive for
them to meet, to meet probablyed tech companies and things
like that.
We weren't getting.
Smaller universities and otheruniversities who I think didn't
feel like it was their, youknow, it was a neighborhood that
they would be welcome in.
And I think, you know, andthere's, you know, some of that
(15:04):
of that is a unintendedintimidation from, from ASU and
how big ASU is and all that sortof thing.
So we actually went outintentionally this year, began
to work with universityorganizations like CIC and
Marjorie Haas, who is absolutelyfantastic.
They brought, and I'm gonna getthe numbers wrong, but they
brought a huge number of, ofuniversity, you know, smaller,
mid-size university presidents.
I had a, a wonderful, I'm notgonna remember the university,
(15:27):
but a wonderful man grabbed meat or closing piece on Wednesday
night and said, This has beenamazing.
I am scared to death, but I'mgoing back to campus and I'm
going, he was the president ofa, a smaller university.
So we really intentionally,realize that, that the event, I
mean, is not meant to preach tothe choir.
So if it's just ASU preachingday issue or, or western
(15:48):
government or whomever then wehaven't really accomplished what
we wanted.
So we did really, we didappreciably increase the
community, attendance in thehigher ed space.
we're probably gonna dosomething interesting next year
about adding an expo at thefront of it, which would be more
logical because it won't have acost to it.
for fa for faculty and willallow companies and, and org
(16:11):
other organizations who wannainteract with.
Faculty and teachers.
and so we're, we're, that's inthe works of using leveraging
the San Diego Conference Center,which is just a, you know, a
building away, from the Hyattand, and having a, a free expo
that, that directly precedes meand overlaps probably one day of
(16:32):
the, of A S U G S V.
And gives real access, to folkswho who can come in for free and
spend real time with technologyproviders, and all that.
So I think that, I think that isa way for us to, try to, you
know, embrace, you know, haveaccess for across markets.
But in the ASU GSV event, the,the idea was really to help to
(16:55):
focus on leaders and then haveleaders go back and disseminate.
We certainly have, you know, anumber of faculty who come, but,
but it, the idea really was tohave, you know, chancellors,
provost, presidents we're noteven, you know, cuz CTOs
actually have edgy cause, youknow, so it's not, we've never
had had a big, group there.
But to really get the rest ofthe group in a, in an
(17:16):
environment where they can seethe kind of innovation that's
happening.
At, you know, at, at the mostinnovative places and, and be
inspired by it perhaps, and goback and, and and proselytize a
little bit.
And then, and then hopefullywe'll create some, some ongoing
groups that assemble together.
So we, we'd like to double thehigher ed group again, and we've
hit, we've hit capacity on thesummit itself.
(17:39):
we can't really go beyond 7,000people at the current in the
current venue and probably don'twant to, but we would, we would
be very interested in, in, intaking the higher ed group up.
Probably another double
Eloy (17:50):
one of the hopes through this podcast is to reach some of
those folks that are reallyinterested in what's going on in
higher ed, maybe leaders ontheir campuses, whether it's a
community college or a regionalfour year university, and get
them interested in coming and,and just understanding what's
going
Eloy & Deborah (18:08):
I think we found that some of these, the
organizations, some of theorgan, the higher ed
organizations, and I think weprobably need to get to more of
them, but we did some reallygreat, scholarship packaging
around admissions and hotel and,And I think that was really
helpful, particularly for folkswho have got, which is a lot of
the, a lot of universities and,and community colleges who are
budget constrained and thingslike that, and are outside of
(18:30):
the catchment area of SouthernCalifornia.
Eloy (18:32):
So in addition to running this enterprise called asu, G S
v, summit, you're also, aninvestor in ed tech.
I'm sure lots of startups arepopping up talking about how
they're going to.
Leverage AI as an investor, howdo you look at those startups?
What, what, what are you lookingfor in, in the kinds of
(18:55):
investments you're thinkingabout making and the kind of
pitches that you're hearingfrom, from various startups?
Eloy & Deborah (19:02):
pretty much everyone has put AI onto their
you know, gen, you know, gener,g i, generative ai onto their
pitch.
I think that that's, at this,the, the real trick now is,
pulling wheat from chaff and ohby the way, realizing of course,
every player in, in the markettoday, almost every player in
the market today is gonna beapplying, you know, generative
(19:22):
AI to, to, whether it's contentproduction or whether it's chat
bots to, you know, answer thisor that, or, you know, you know,
so everyone's doing, everyoneis, and has to do that.
But the, the, the, the startupstartups, the guys who are
really starting from zero, whatwe are generally doing is
finding incredibly talentedentrepreneurs who are, who come
(19:43):
out of deep tech backgrounds,who, you know have, who have
incredible in, you know,insights and perspective on AI
and where go and what's, what'shappening and, and who have the
ability to be.
Rapidly flexible because evencompany, We already backed,
called Chiron Learning, forexample, we were on with today.
I mean, they've already seen.
(20:05):
A com, you know, an incrediblewidening of the addressable
market.
They have, they start, we'restarting in K-12, they're now
seeing higher ed applicationsand they're seeing for,
particularly for onlineuniversities and they're seeing
corporate applications.
and a lot of that actually camefrom interactions at asu G S V.
and so we're trying to back veryagile people who are also
listening really hard.
it's always true that the vastmajority of venture backed
(20:27):
companies don't make it.
I think there's such a plethoraof, you know, folks jumping in
here.
if you hear AI tutor one moretime, you're probably gonna, you
know, shoot yourself.
And you, you sort of wonder atsome point, how many AI tutors
can you actually have?
and what does that mean?
Or maybe it really needs to goto something else, you know,
around pers to your point aroundper, it's a reflection of
personalization and a reflectionof other elements of the
(20:49):
Learning delivery.
so I think we're just trying tofind, the folks who are.
Who have deep rooted expertiseand who are who have who.
And therefore also, not only inAI but also in education.
Cuz I think they're gonna,you're gonna have a lot of folks
jump in who don't have you haveeducation perspective.
And as you and I both know,education's a lot harder
(21:12):
industry than people appreciateit to be.
And, and and we're still, youknow, we're still in the early
innings of proving that ed tech.
Is a successful tech category.
And we've had some, we've hadsome incredible businesses
built, but we haven't achievedthe scale of, of, of other tech
categories yet for the mostpart.
(21:32):
So that's kind of what we're,what we're looking to do is back
really talented founders whom wecan hopefully really lean into
and, and give our ex, give ourrelationships and expertise to,
and, and help them look for thelandmines and the opportunities.
We're actually doing a schoolvisit to KIPP schools here in
Chicago next week with one ofone of the founders.
(21:53):
they're doing a beta test of,around a very personalized math
product that, that helpsteachers assemble information
about the students and then kindof change, you know, and it
helps them personalize their ownlearning delivery to individual
students within the class basedon what they're.
Quickly learning from the ai inthe platform.
And, and so we're reallyexcited, you know, so I, I think
(22:15):
we're seeing very cool thingslike that.
Eloy (22:17):
as I heard you talking, I couldn't help but remember one
of the lines that bill Gates,said when he was there talking
to us, he said he was clearabout, what investing in EdTech
is all about.
For, for him, it's, it's aboutphilanthropy, so he's.
Eloy & Deborah (22:31):
Well, yeah, he sort of, bill, bill sort of went
down a bill, went down a badpath there for a second.
I think Jesse sort of pulled himback in that, you know,
suggesting that it needed to be,it needed to be philanthropic.
And then he kind of quicklytried to, you know, correct
himself.
But, he's frustrated by hisphilanthropic investments.
So I think the world of whatthey've done, cuz they took a
lot of risks and a lot of itdidn't work and.
At least we now have theresearch and the data around
(22:53):
what did, you know, what has andhasn't worked.
And I think they're, you know,doubling down and putting a
billion dollars into math is,just looking at, looking at our
math numbers and how far behindour kids are, and then follow
into co you know, follow thatinto college is I think is
great.
I love the fact that they're,they haven't given up.
Because, you know, because thereare folks who, who who've
Eloy (23:14):
right
Eloy & Deborah (23:14):
on the, Philanthropy for education and
they haven't given up at all.
I love that.
I did, I did, I did want to killhim when he said
Eloy (23:22):
I I figured, but he got a good laugh or a lot of moans.
I.
So let me, let me ask you afinal question, as we, we wrap
up.
I recognize that you're stillrecovering from the April
summit, but what are yourthoughts about going into the
next ASU GSV summit?
Where, where does, where do yougo from here?
know you've talked a little bitabout some of the things you're
(23:44):
thinking about, but any, anyother teasers as as you start
planning for 2024?
Eloy & Deborah (23:50):
Yeah, I, I think we're hoping that we've got, we
hope we're gonna have somewindows of opt, you know, some
windows of optimism.
and I we're already playing witha theme around that, that I
think we, we are thinking hardabout the ability to execute a,
a real expo that's gonna giveprac, you know, more
practitioners access to to, toproviders of, of tech, you know,
(24:12):
providers of technologysolutions so they can, they can
do more hands on.
I think that'll be aninteresting.
Addition to, to the event.
I've, you know, fallen in lovewith a, a podcast that Barry
Weiss who spoke this year didwith a guy named Tim Urban.
And we're gonna have Tim speakthis next year.
We've already booked him.
And, you know, his point is thatthere are, you know, that there
(24:33):
are echo chambers in theirinnovation labs.
And, and it's okay to have anecho chamber as long as.
The echo chamber is listening toother echo chambers or listening
to other perspectives.
And I think that our objectiveand is to really never be an
echo chamber.
That we are always, engaging inboth sides of dialogue.
And I think we're gonna sit backand make sure we're doing that
and and probably even have awhole stage where we have people
(24:57):
talk, you know, debate.
You made the point about having.
Having this under Secretary ofEducation who, who is a
wonderful human, but who manypeople disagree with.
to have James Al there.
And, and, and he was fantastic,by the way, for doing it cuz he
didn't have to.
and I, I, I applaud, I mean,that was the definition of an
innovation lab when you'rewilling to not stay, you know,
(25:19):
stay in your echo chamber andyou come out and, and talk to to
folks in the, in the innovationlab and see where.
Where that goes.
so I think that's actually a bigfocus of ours that we, that we
stay in Innovation Lab andInnovation Lab requires that
we're talking about, issues frommultiple perspective and
respecting people we disagreewith.
and that's what I hope wecontinue to push my, my credit,
(25:41):
my partner Michael Mo, who's,who's always been the most
passionate and impassioned onthat issue.
And Yeah, so we're already sortof booking people with the
intention of, of of teeingthings up like that.
so
Eloy (25:54):
Great.
Okay.
Eloy & Deborah (25:55):
And then, we'll, if anybody's interested in
India, we're probably gonna doa, a, a much larger event in
India, in, in January
Eloy (26:01):
All right.
Well that sounds like fun.
Eloy & Deborah (26:03):
we'll have that too.
Mm-hmm.
Eloy (26:05):
All right, listen, Deborah, I really appreciate you
taking the time and, talking tome here on the rant.
really have enjoyed ourconversation.
Enjoy the work that you all havedone with the summit and I look
forward to 2024.
So thanks for joining me.
Eloy & Deborah (26:19):
Awesome.
Well, we always, we always wantyou in the program, Eloy, happy
to get you, get you bookedalready.
So good.
Eloy (26:26):
All right.
Thanks Deborah.
All right.
Well everyone, thanks forjoining us here on the rant.
If you enjoyed this episode, hitthe like button.
And if you went to the summitplease let me know your
thoughts.
What did you enjoy about thesummit?
What do you hope to see in thecoming year?
And leave me your comments aboutthis episode and to hear more
episodes subscribe to thischannel.
(26:48):
Follow us on your favoritepodcast platform.
Take care, everyone, and we'llsee you soon
Hi, I'm Eloy Ortiz Oakley, and welcome back to the Rent the
podcast where we pull back thecurtain and break down the
people, the policies, and thepolitics of our higher education
system.
In this episode, I finalized myconversations with key
innovators that I ran into.
At the recent ASU G S V Summitin San Diego, today I'm talking
(00:29):
with Deborah Qua, managingpartner at GSV Ventures and
co-founder of the ASU GSVSummit.
Welcome to the rant, Deborah.
Eloy & Deborah (00:39):
Thank you, Eloy.
It is, delightful to be here.
to
Eloy (00:42):
great to see you as well.
So let's jump into some of thesequestions.
Deborah, you are the managingpartner at GSV Ventures and the
co-founder of the ASU GSVSummit, which is now, I think in
its 14th year.
Eloy & Deborah (00:55):
We just finished the 14th
Eloy (00:57):
finished the
Eloy & Deborah (00:58):
We got, yeah, well, COVID sort of messed us up
a little bit, but we startstarted, we did start in 2010
and we just finished the 14thevent and so next year will be
our 15th event.
Eloy (01:06):
time flies.
Eloy & Deborah (01:07):
Yep.
I know.
Eloy (01:09):
So for our listeners, tell us a little bit about yourself
and what led you to yourinterest in education
technology, and also tell us alittle bit about GSV Ventures
and how you wound up partneringwith Michael Crow and Arizona
State University to launch allof this.
Eloy & Deborah (01:25):
I, I have been working with my partner Michael
Mo, in education innovation andeducation technology for.
Frighteningly over, 25 years.
And so, we're embarra, we hit 25and we decided not to add any
more years onto it.
So it is over 25 now.
We're just gonna go with over 25years, until it, you know, until
it gets to a hundred orsomething.
But, so we've been working along time in the sector,
(01:47):
obviously way before any, what,anything material was happening
as it related to the applicationof technology.
and.
And I, and we did that asinvestment bankers and research
analysts and conveners andthings and things like that over
the initial period.
and that's kind of how we, howwe came at it initially back in
20, probably 2009 or so, MichaelMo had the incredible
(02:09):
opportunity to join aninnovation committee at Arizona
State.
Neither one of us had any alumnitie but he got a bit of a chance
to see what Michael Crow hadgoing on under the hood.
Cause in 20.
2010, as you remember, Eloy, itwould not have been an obvious
choice to align yourself withArizona State.
If you were trying to say that,you know, you were, you were,
(02:31):
you wanted to do somethingrelated to being a leader in
technology and a leader atacademic performance and all
that sort of thing.
they were the largest publicuniversity.
But had yet to begin to turnover the cards in terms of what
Michael Crow had going on underthe hood, to, to basically
transform the university into aplace that was measured by the
Im its impact on students.
(02:52):
Not, not the students.
They kept out, but the, but,but.
Through the admissions of, ofmore and more students and
putting those more and morestudents through to great, to
great success.
So we were very fortunate whenwe, when we did that partnering
back in 20, you know, as thefirst event was 2010, so back in
2009 or whatever, whatever theoriginal set of meetings was.
Michael really at some pointsuggests Michael Mo suggested to
(03:14):
Michael Pro that why don't youtry to do some sort of,
convening That really showcasedwhat, what was going on in the
world of education, innovationand transformation.
And particularly, as it relatedto, the application of
technology when we started asu,I think had four technology
partners today they probablyhave 4,000.
If you really, if you really gotin there and tried to count
(03:34):
them, So it was, it was a reallyfortuitous partnering that
happened.
It's been, it, you know, prettyremarkable to, to be a partner
with.
The largest public university inthe country for 15 years and
have it be so smooth.
And they even joined us inpartnering on a smaller event.
We did this February and in in,in India because they're
obviously, spreading their wingsinto global markets all over the
(03:58):
world.
And so it's really been terrificit's really, it's been
remarkable and it's, it's givenus a, it's also given us such a
window.
I mean, they're an innovationmachine and, and, and for us to
be able to you know, go on tocampus.
And I tell people all the time,if you've got two days to do a,
to do a road trip to ArizonaState and just see the kinds of
innovation that's, that'shappening there, on a thousand
(04:20):
different levels, you know, Ihighly recommend it.
It can be transformative, but,But yeah, so that was really the
history.
I got passionate.
I was really, as an investmentbanker I, it became obvious to
me that that, you know, the,the, the wedge of, of innovation
and being able to deliver highquality education at scale, to
many millions of people, notonly in the United States, but
in the world, was something thatwas.
(04:41):
One of the few thing, few leverswe have to make a difference.
I know that's, that's somethingpreaching to the choir on that
one.
But, that's, that's kind of whenI got hooked and and realized
that we could do more than, thanwe could, you know, to being a
trans, you know, some, somebodywho was transacting in the
sector to actually be veryinvolved philanthropically from
a policy perspective.
(05:02):
And then from this conveningperspective, I think it's, you
know, we are really.
Proud of the, what we builtstarting in, you know, 2010 we
were back at Arizona StateSkySong facility in, in
Scottsdale's we like to say 350people in sweaty conference
rooms.
And we were able to, you know,outgrow that.
And and this year, You know, hadrecord attendance, you know,
with over 7,000 peopleregistered.
(05:23):
And and, and some were just,just under 7,000 being there
live.
Although I hear from lots of,lots of folks that there are
probably 3000 people who don't,who don't, who, who are, who are
there, who don't pay and then,but are hanging around, hanging
around.
the event.
and that's, and that's all greattoo.
So I think anything we can doto, to, to catalyze These
diverse sets of humans from, youknow, that when we started this,
(05:46):
it was as my partner, MarkMichael said, a strange cocktail
of people who didn't typicallyget in the same room together.
So ed tech founders withphilanthropists, with investors,
with practitioners in the K-12,higher ed and workforce spaces.
So the whole idea is to reallymash people up and catalyze and
inspire people to take actions,as they come out of the event.
Eloy (06:07):
Well, having attended.
Many, ASU GSV summits.
I, I can say that yeah, I cansay that.
It has truly continued to grow.
it's a fun event.
lots of different people.
And where else can you see theundersecretary of Education with
a former Secretary of Educationwith some of the top ed tech,
(06:28):
founders altogether talkingabout how the federal government
regulates.
EdTech.
So I thought it was I, howeveryou landed on this, it's been,
it's been a lot of fun.
Now, A S U G S V highlights someof the more cutting edge ideas
and trends in educationtechnology.
I think anybody who works in andaround EdTech is there.
(06:51):
and as you said, you've been tomany of these, what excited you
about what you saw th at thisyear's summit in San Diego?
Eloy & Deborah (07:00):
we had already positioned the theme for, this
year, which was Brave New Worldand, and well ahead of the
emergence of, of, of chat G P Tand the whole G P T phenomenon.
So it turned out to be pretty,pretty fortuitous either
precedent or fortuitous orwhatever it was, it turned out
to be a pretty good theme forwhat's going on.
(07:20):
In the world.
so what we did was we, we'vealways had artificial
intelligence and emergingtechnologies embedded in the
program.
We, you know, from the, from thevery beginning, obviously it was
not generative art, artificialintelligence, since that really
is, is an, is something thatemerged in.
Fully emerged in in the Januarytime period.
but we've always had a big eyeon what things can, what, what
(07:41):
can, what kinds of technologiescan be leveraged to, to
accelerate learning.
And so to accelerate learning,to accelerate, you know,
assessment we all know we'resitting here.
We, massive learning loss.
It wasn't great going intoCovid.
We weren't you, we were noteducating enough of our
children, in the K-12 systemgoing into Covid, but coming
(08:01):
out, coming out of Covid.
And we're just, you know, We'recontinuing to see depressing
research released.
The research report from TomKane and Sean, from Harvard and
Stanford came out this week justagain reiterating that the loss
has not been recovered.
That, and then, and looking atlo location based analysis of
where that, where the losses arethe most severe, and trying to
(08:23):
also isolate factors that, thathave caused the severity and
what do we do to solve it.
So I think one of the, as youthink about.
That daunting challenge, whichthen as you well know, is
inherited into the higher edsystem and then is inherited
into the employment system.
And then, you know, the whole,whatever, 50, 60% of people
avoid, don't go into the highered system, go directly in the
(08:46):
employment system.
So, we've always viewed theemployer as the fourth education
system because they're having tobe right.
They're, they're inheritingfailures downstream, and
they're, and they're inheritingthe obsolete, the challenges of
obsolescence, you know, jobobsolescence.
So we, we do believe, you know,I appreciate there is the
positive and the negative aroundwhat's going on with generative
(09:07):
ai.
There was a, the Atlantic has abig article this week on just
the, the, the frustrations thatuniversity professors are, are,
are facing, particularly writingprofessors about, you know, what
do I do?
How do I address this?
When, when how, what, you know,how do you teach writing when
90% of your kids are using chatg b t or, or whatever.
But I, I, I really do think.
(09:27):
That issue aside, you know, thatissue, it's hard to put it
aside, but that issue, theability to, to leverage
generative AI in a way that,and, and non generative ai, in a
way that's, that can allow us toaccelerate learning, make it
personalized, help teachers andfaculty members, you know,
address more kids at disparatepoints of ability because of,
(09:49):
you know, learning they did ordidn't have, have in, in prior
periods.
I think it is a real cause foroptimism.
And there, you know, we had, Ithink the vast majority of
leading edge companies in the,in the generative AI space.
We also had.
you know, other companies likelike a company we've invested in
with Arizona State University,dreamscape Learn, which is a vr,
(10:10):
VR based platform, which willalso have embedded artificial
intelligence in it, you know,over time in, in its delivery.
But, but you know, thatcompany's seeing really
accelerated learning gains fromstudents that go through
biology, you know, using theDreamscape system.
So I think where we get excited,Because if you really look at it
(10:30):
and, and we've had a lot ofconversations about this.
We've been, you know, thesummit's in his 15th year and
we've, we've had, I don't knowhow many decades now, two
decades at least, of of ed techor the application of technology
to, to education and skills.
And we haven't made muchprogress.
and there are a lot of reasonsfor that.
(10:51):
It's not that all the ed tech'sbad, it's, you know, it's
certainly fidelity ofimplementation.
It's challenges that youngpeople face in their personal
lives.
It's challenges.
Teachers face, faculty, youknow, so it's a, they're a host
of issues.
for why we haven't been moresuccessful in moving the needle
on academic and skill,skill-based outcomes.
we have some real optimism andhopefulness that there is, that
(11:11):
we are at a moment of completerevolution.
And that there will be that,that the delivery of learning
can be transformed through theleveraging of some of these
technologies to supportteachers, faculty, students.
and that's where we get, moreoptimistic.
More hopeful.
And it's also, I think the otherthing that's kind of cool is,
and we saw it cuz there were somany, it's also drawing more
(11:33):
creative founders into the edtech sector.
So we're seeing people pouringout of Google, pouring out of, I
mean, you know, great leadersout of Google, great leaders
outta Microsoft, Amazon.
Certainly you'll see all, you'llsee some really exciting
companies created by veryexperienced, very smart people
who not only understand thetechnology.
(11:55):
But they also understand,education.
So they come out of the, youknow, they, a lot of them are
coming out of the educationefforts, so, Of, of those large
companies.
And, and so I think that's alsoexciting because it's sort of a
new wave.
You know, innovation requiresinnovate tours and great
innovate tours and, and andthat's true whether you're
talking about a company or auniversity or a a K-12 system or
(12:18):
the workforce.
We've seeing incredibleinnovations with K-12 teachers,
and, and principals and leadersand at the higher ed, higher ed
space as well.
So, while I think there is a lotof angst, there's certainly a, a
level of anxiety about what thismeans, you know, for your job or
how you, you know, how you haveto change things.
I do think net net is gonna giveus a shot at trying to.
(12:41):
trying to pull in these gapshave existed for too long, but
have been exacerbated by theyears in Covid and and are gonna
be even further exacerbated bythe rapid move
Eloy (12:53):
Mm-hmm.
Well, I'm hopeful as well.
I think this march towardpersonalization continues and I,
I've certainly seen progress,living, with a huge, education
organization pre pandemic andthen seeing it.
Quickly evolve through thepandemic and now post pandemic.
I definitely see the change.
Now you mentioned, moretraditional educators.
(13:16):
I know in my conversations withsome of the founders and some of
the ed tech folks, some of'emexpressed a desire to see more
traditional educators at.
At the summit, how do you thinkwe can pull them in and get them
to see the value of of hearingall this, great work that's
happening throughout the ed techsector?
Eloy & Deborah (13:35):
what we did this year, and I mean it, we are a
leadership summit, right?
A lot of great education eventsin K-12 higher ed and workforce,
and we've always wanted to carveout kind of our position as
intentionally focused on, on onleadership.
So we're, whether it's in K-12where we have a massive
scholarship program forprincipals and superintendents
(13:59):
in higher ed, we.
Really, and, and we doubled downon the K12 community piece.
We had over 1100, principals andsuperintendents representing 47
of 50 states, which is we, youknow, you know, off the charts.
and that was up, from maybe 800last year.
What we did on the higher edside, we actually were up by
three or four fold in the highered space.
(14:19):
we actually went outintentionally.
I think that we real, we cameoutta the summit in 2022.
We looked at atten, the attendeebase.
And we said, well actually, youknow, we have, and we, you know,
we sort of think of the summitin 10% blocks and we said, well,
we actually have 10% of the, ofattendees come from higher
education.
But when you peel it back, werealize that the numbers were
being dominated by the big guys,right?
So whether it was ASU or WesternGovernors or Southern New
(14:42):
Hampshire or, you know, folkslike that were sending large
numbers of people to the summitbecause it was so productive for
them to meet, to meet probablyed tech companies and things
like that.
We weren't getting.
Smaller universities and otheruniversities who I think didn't
feel like it was their, youknow, it was a neighborhood that
they would be welcome in.
And I think, you know, andthere's, you know, some of that
(15:04):
of that is a unintendedintimidation from, from ASU and
how big ASU is and all that sortof thing.
So we actually went outintentionally this year, began
to work with universityorganizations like CIC and
Marjorie Haas, who is absolutelyfantastic.
They brought, and I'm gonna getthe numbers wrong, but they
brought a huge number of, ofuniversity, you know, smaller,
mid-size university presidents.
I had a, a wonderful, I'm notgonna remember the university,
(15:27):
but a wonderful man grabbed meat or closing piece on Wednesday
night and said, This has beenamazing.
I am scared to death, but I'mgoing back to campus and I'm
going, he was the president ofa, a smaller university.
So we really intentionally,realize that, that the event, I
mean, is not meant to preach tothe choir.
So if it's just ASU preachingday issue or, or western
(15:48):
government or whomever then wehaven't really accomplished what
we wanted.
So we did really, we didappreciably increase the
community, attendance in thehigher ed space.
we're probably gonna dosomething interesting next year
about adding an expo at thefront of it, which would be more
logical because it won't have acost to it.
for fa for faculty and willallow companies and, and org
(16:11):
other organizations who wannainteract with.
Faculty and teachers.
and so we're, we're, that's inthe works of using leveraging
the San Diego Conference Center,which is just a, you know, a
building away, from the Hyattand, and having a, a free expo
that, that directly precedes meand overlaps probably one day of
(16:32):
the, of A S U G S V.
And gives real access, to folkswho who can come in for free and
spend real time with technologyproviders, and all that.
So I think that, I think that isa way for us to, try to, you
know, embrace, you know, haveaccess for across markets.
But in the ASU GSV event, the,the idea was really to help to
(16:55):
focus on leaders and then haveleaders go back and disseminate.
We certainly have, you know, anumber of faculty who come, but,
but it, the idea really was tohave, you know, chancellors,
provost, presidents we're noteven, you know, cuz CTOs
actually have edgy cause, youknow, so it's not, we've never
had had a big, group there.
But to really get the rest ofthe group in a, in an
(17:16):
environment where they can seethe kind of innovation that's
happening.
At, you know, at, at the mostinnovative places and, and be
inspired by it perhaps, and goback and, and and proselytize a
little bit.
And then, and then hopefullywe'll create some, some ongoing
groups that assemble together.
So we, we'd like to double thehigher ed group again, and we've
hit, we've hit capacity on thesummit itself.
(17:39):
we can't really go beyond 7,000people at the current in the
current venue and probably don'twant to, but we would, we would
be very interested in, in, intaking the higher ed group up.
Probably another double
Eloy (17:50):
one of the hopes through this podcast is to reach some of
those folks that are reallyinterested in what's going on in
higher ed, maybe leaders ontheir campuses, whether it's a
community college or a regionalfour year university, and get
them interested in coming and,and just understanding what's
going
Eloy & Deborah (18:08):
I think we found that some of these, the
organizations, some of theorgan, the higher ed
organizations, and I think weprobably need to get to more of
them, but we did some reallygreat, scholarship packaging
around admissions and hotel and,And I think that was really
helpful, particularly for folkswho have got, which is a lot of
the, a lot of universities and,and community colleges who are
budget constrained and thingslike that, and are outside of
(18:30):
the catchment area of SouthernCalifornia.
Eloy (18:32):
So in addition to running this enterprise called asu, G S
v, summit, you're also, aninvestor in ed tech.
I'm sure lots of startups arepopping up talking about how
they're going to.
Leverage AI as an investor, howdo you look at those startups?
What, what, what are you lookingfor in, in the kinds of
(18:55):
investments you're thinkingabout making and the kind of
pitches that you're hearingfrom, from various startups?
Eloy & Deborah (19:02):
pretty much everyone has put AI onto their
you know, gen, you know, gener,g i, generative ai onto their
pitch.
I think that that's, at this,the, the real trick now is,
pulling wheat from chaff and ohby the way, realizing of course,
every player in, in the markettoday, almost every player in
the market today is gonna beapplying, you know, generative
(19:22):
AI to, to, whether it's contentproduction or whether it's chat
bots to, you know, answer thisor that, or, you know, you know,
so everyone's doing, everyoneis, and has to do that.
But the, the, the, the startupstartups, the guys who are
really starting from zero, whatwe are generally doing is
finding incredibly talentedentrepreneurs who are, who come
(19:43):
out of deep tech backgrounds,who, you know have, who have
incredible in, you know,insights and perspective on AI
and where go and what's, what'shappening and, and who have the
ability to be.
Rapidly flexible because evencompany, We already backed,
called Chiron Learning, forexample, we were on with today.
I mean, they've already seen.
(20:05):
A com, you know, an incrediblewidening of the addressable
market.
They have, they start, we'restarting in K-12, they're now
seeing higher ed applicationsand they're seeing for,
particularly for onlineuniversities and they're seeing
corporate applications.
and a lot of that actually camefrom interactions at asu G S V.
and so we're trying to back veryagile people who are also
listening really hard.
it's always true that the vastmajority of venture backed
(20:27):
companies don't make it.
I think there's such a plethoraof, you know, folks jumping in
here.
if you hear AI tutor one moretime, you're probably gonna, you
know, shoot yourself.
And you, you sort of wonder atsome point, how many AI tutors
can you actually have?
and what does that mean?
Or maybe it really needs to goto something else, you know,
around pers to your point aroundper, it's a reflection of
personalization and a reflectionof other elements of the
(20:49):
Learning delivery.
so I think we're just trying tofind, the folks who are.
Who have deep rooted expertiseand who are who have who.
And therefore also, not only inAI but also in education.
Cuz I think they're gonna,you're gonna have a lot of folks
jump in who don't have you haveeducation perspective.
And as you and I both know,education's a lot harder
(21:12):
industry than people appreciateit to be.
And, and and we're still, youknow, we're still in the early
innings of proving that ed tech.
Is a successful tech category.
And we've had some, we've hadsome incredible businesses
built, but we haven't achievedthe scale of, of, of other tech
categories yet for the mostpart.
(21:32):
So that's kind of what we're,what we're looking to do is back
really talented founders whom wecan hopefully really lean into
and, and give our ex, give ourrelationships and expertise to,
and, and help them look for thelandmines and the opportunities.
We're actually doing a schoolvisit to KIPP schools here in
Chicago next week with one ofone of the founders.
(21:53):
they're doing a beta test of,around a very personalized math
product that, that helpsteachers assemble information
about the students and then kindof change, you know, and it
helps them personalize their ownlearning delivery to individual
students within the class basedon what they're.
Quickly learning from the ai inthe platform.
And, and so we're reallyexcited, you know, so I, I think
(22:15):
we're seeing very cool thingslike that.
Eloy (22:17):
as I heard you talking, I couldn't help but remember one
of the lines that bill Gates,said when he was there talking
to us, he said he was clearabout, what investing in EdTech
is all about.
For, for him, it's, it's aboutphilanthropy, so he's.
Eloy & Deborah (22:31):
Well, yeah, he sort of, bill, bill sort of went
down a bill, went down a badpath there for a second.
I think Jesse sort of pulled himback in that, you know,
suggesting that it needed to be,it needed to be philanthropic.
And then he kind of quicklytried to, you know, correct
himself.
But, he's frustrated by hisphilanthropic investments.
So I think the world of whatthey've done, cuz they took a
lot of risks and a lot of itdidn't work and.
At least we now have theresearch and the data around
(22:53):
what did, you know, what has andhasn't worked.
And I think they're, you know,doubling down and putting a
billion dollars into math is,just looking at, looking at our
math numbers and how far behindour kids are, and then follow
into co you know, follow thatinto college is I think is
great.
I love the fact that they're,they haven't given up.
Because, you know, because thereare folks who, who who've
Eloy (23:14):
right
Eloy & Deborah (23:14):
on the, Philanthropy for education and
they haven't given up at all.
I love that.
I did, I did, I did want to killhim when he said
Eloy (23:22):
I I figured, but he got a good laugh or a lot of moans.
I.
So let me, let me ask you afinal question, as we, we wrap
up.
I recognize that you're stillrecovering from the April
summit, but what are yourthoughts about going into the
next ASU GSV summit?
Where, where does, where do yougo from here?
know you've talked a little bitabout some of the things you're
(23:44):
thinking about, but any, anyother teasers as as you start
planning for 2024?
Eloy & Deborah (23:50):
Yeah, I, I think we're hoping that we've got, we
hope we're gonna have somewindows of opt, you know, some
windows of optimism.
and I we're already playing witha theme around that, that I
think we, we are thinking hardabout the ability to execute a,
a real expo that's gonna giveprac, you know, more
practitioners access to to, toproviders of, of tech, you know,
(24:12):
providers of technologysolutions so they can, they can
do more hands on.
I think that'll be aninteresting.
Addition to, to the event.
I've, you know, fallen in lovewith a, a podcast that Barry
Weiss who spoke this year didwith a guy named Tim Urban.
And we're gonna have Tim speakthis next year.
We've already booked him.
And, you know, his point is thatthere are, you know, that there
(24:33):
are echo chambers in theirinnovation labs.
And, and it's okay to have anecho chamber as long as.
The echo chamber is listening toother echo chambers or listening
to other perspectives.
And I think that our objectiveand is to really never be an
echo chamber.
That we are always, engaging inboth sides of dialogue.
And I think we're gonna sit backand make sure we're doing that
and and probably even have awhole stage where we have people
(24:57):
talk, you know, debate.
You made the point about having.
Having this under Secretary ofEducation who, who is a
wonderful human, but who manypeople disagree with.
to have James Al there.
And, and, and he was fantastic,by the way, for doing it cuz he
didn't have to.
and I, I, I applaud, I mean,that was the definition of an
innovation lab when you'rewilling to not stay, you know,
(25:19):
stay in your echo chamber andyou come out and, and talk to to
folks in the, in the innovationlab and see where.
Where that goes.
so I think that's actually a bigfocus of ours that we, that we
stay in Innovation Lab andInnovation Lab requires that
we're talking about, issues frommultiple perspective and
respecting people we disagreewith.
and that's what I hope wecontinue to push my, my credit,
(25:41):
my partner Michael Mo, who's,who's always been the most
passionate and impassioned onthat issue.
And Yeah, so we're already sortof booking people with the
intention of, of of teeingthings up like that.
so
Eloy (25:54):
Great.
Okay.
Eloy & Deborah (25:55):
And then, we'll, if anybody's interested in
India, we're probably gonna doa, a, a much larger event in
India, in, in January
Eloy (26:01):
All right.
Well that sounds like fun.
Eloy & Deborah (26:03):
we'll have that too.
Mm-hmm.
Eloy (26:05):
All right, listen, Deborah, I really appreciate you
taking the time and, talking tome here on the rant.
really have enjoyed ourconversation.
Enjoy the work that you all havedone with the summit and I look
forward to 2024.
So thanks for joining me.
Eloy & Deborah (26:19):
Awesome.
Well, we always, we always wantyou in the program, Eloy, happy
to get you, get you bookedalready.
So good.
Eloy (26:26):
All right.
Thanks Deborah.
All right.
Well everyone, thanks forjoining us here on the rant.
If you enjoyed this episode, hitthe like button.
And if you went to the summitplease let me know your
thoughts.
What did you enjoy about thesummit?
What do you hope to see in thecoming year?
And leave me your comments aboutthis episode and to hear more
episodes subscribe to thischannel.
(26:48):
Follow us on your favoritepodcast platform.
Take care, everyone, and we'llsee you soon
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