August 5, 2025 • 53 mins
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Get practical insights on step-parenting, family dynamics, and personal growth in this episode featuring Amy Stone from "The Art of Imperfect Adulting." Amy shares real-life stories, challenges, and tips for navigating blended families and big life transitions.
- How Amy became a stepmom and the unexpected challenges that came with it
- The importance of redefining family roles and creating new traditions in blended families
- Practical strategies for communication, boundaries, and managing complicated family schedules
- Personal experiences navigating grief and how community support plays a role
- Lessons learned about self-growth, therapy, and navigating tough parenting moments
Watch now to learn how real families face real challenges with honesty—and a little humor.
From Amy:
Amy Stone is a coach or mentor, author and podcaster. She is the creator of The Art of Imperfect Adulting and Stepparent Success School. Amy understands that being a grown up can sometimes be tougher than expected. In her own experience “adulting” she sometimes struggled to find the education, support and community she was looking for and so she began to do her part to create those resources for herself and others.
Connect with Amy:
The Art of Imperfect Adulting
https://feeds.captivate.fm/imperfect-adulting/
IG
https://www.instagram.com/theartof_imperfect_adulting
*******
Pom Mocktail
Lemon Flavored Fizzy water (I choose La Croix but anything works) with a splash of pomegranate juice and if you want a squeeze of fresh lemon or lime juice. Over ice in a pretty glass.
******
Host: Reesa Morala, MA, Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist. Reesa is a parenting specialist with a niche in supporting couples. Find Reesa hosting couples and parenting workshops nationwide!
Make sure to like, follow, and subscribe!
For the video version of this episode find us at: https://www.embracerenewaltherapy.com/
If you are a parent ready to share your real-life parenting struggle and dish up a recipe with Reesa, apply here:
https://www.embracerenewaltherapy.com/real-family-eats-guest
If you are experiencing a mental health crisis or need personalized support, please seek help from a licensed mental health professional. If you are in immediate danger or experiencing a crisis, contact emergency services or a crisis hotline in your area.
Suicide and Crisis Line: Text or Call 988
Go to your local hospital or call 911
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
I look back nowand I can see that
(00:01):
what I was doing was redefiningwhat my concept of family
could look like, redefining whatmy identity within a family
could look like.
Hey, everyone.
Thanks for joining me.
My name is Reesa,and I'm your host.
(00:23):
We are talking to real familiesabout real stories.
Here on The Real FamilyEats, where we've got food
for thought and thoughtful food.
So let's eat.
(00:44):
Welcome back everyone.
Thank you so much for joiningus again.
I'm excited for today's episode.
We have Amy joining us today.
Hi, Amy.
Thank you so muchfor being a guest on the show.
Thank you so much for having me.
Reesa.
I am so excited to heara little bit about your story.
But before we get startedwith all of that, for anybody
(01:04):
who doesn't know you, could youintroduce yourself for us?
I sure can.
My name is Amy Stoneand I am the host of the Art
of Imperfect Adulting.
I'm a mom and a stepmomand a wife and a sister
and a daughter and all ofthese things.
I am talking to you todayfrom sunny South Florida,
where it's not at all sunny.
Today.
We're having a little bitof a cool snap,
(01:26):
and so I'm wearingone of the two sweaters that
I own.
Did you have to dig it out?
I'm not in that point yet.
I have a two day limit.
And then I have to diginto the deep
parts of my closet.
And at that point I go from,you know, wearing
something that's, you know, cuteish to rocking the itchy,
(01:46):
like, almost like,is she unhoused or is she
just a Floridian who iswearing everything she owns?
Yeah. Yeah.
Fair point.
Fair point.
Probably not a whole ton of usefor some of that stuff.
Exactly. I've.
Yeah. That's right.
All right.
Well, I love it.
So you mentioned several thingsthat you've got going on.
Many hats.
(02:07):
And this is our shamelessplug section.
So tell us, what you gotgoing on, how folks can
find your podcastand get connected with you
if that's something that they'reinterested in resonates?
No, absolutely.
I'd love for peopleto join me over at the Art
of Imperfect Down Thing,which is, a podcast
and streaming show where I sharestories of choices and changes
that people make and howthat impacts the path of
(02:28):
their life.
And then I have two products.
One is step successfuland the other is a community
which I call the village.
So you can find all of that,in order to dancing.com.
Wonderful.
And that's so cool.
Can you tell us a little bitabout your community and,
the group that you mentioned?
Sure. I sure can.
(02:48):
I'm happy to do that.
So in the, way I see things,adulting is a long process.
And, you know, 18to forever, right?
And so I'm building a communitythat bridges a lot of a lot of
a lot of generationsand a lot of interest groups
and there's a focusevery single month.
(03:09):
It's, built on the premisethat imperfection
is a starting pointand not necessarily a sign
that something has gone wrongand that we can work through
these things with the helpof somebody like me who has some
coaching tools, but alsothe community aspect of
creating a loving, supportingmotivation community
that comes togetherto help people move
through transitions and changesthat we're going
(03:30):
through. Wonderful.
That sounds awesome.
And as always, we'll haveall of that linked in
our show notes.
And make sureto link up with Amy
if that's somethingthat resonates.
There's a campaign.
All right.
So tell me, we are doing,one of our first
drinks on the show.
So tell us what recipe you'resharing today.
(03:53):
And why did you choose this one?
So, you know, it came out earlyto share a recipe,
and I was like, oh,what am I going to share? Hello.
But it is.
We're recording this in January.
People who are not watching itin January, we're recording it
in January, and I do startevery year.
We started a recent thing,and one of the things
I realized is I do dry January.
I have fruit lots of years.
And so this is a mocktail.
(04:13):
And so when you ask mefor a recipe, I was like, sure,
I'll share a drink.
It's a mocktail for fun.
You know, the thing withmocktails is you can just
it can just be a drink.
Know it doesn't have to befor dry January.
It can just bea refreshing drink.
Yeah.
And what I love is, you know,when I was reading the recipe,
it has that element.
(04:35):
It's not superduper complicated,
but it seems likesomething special.
And I think that, you know what?
Parent doesn't need a littlejust time out kind of time
to themselves to drinksomething that's
maybe a little bit out of theordinary, that, you know,
just your water or your coffeeand just give you a little,
a little boost of something.
So I love it.
(04:56):
Yeah.
Okay, so tell us, whatare all the steps?
How do you make your drink?
I'll get mixing while we chat.
So I love that you say that.
It's not very complicated.
I would say is unbelievablysimple.
So I keep all of this stuffin my fridge at any given time.
So there are three ingredients.
If you don't count the ice.
(05:16):
The water.
My choice is lemon Lacroix.
And pomegranatejuice, which I use.
Just the brand.
I have no idea if that's howyou say that.
And then a little bit of limeor other things you can do.
You can get fancy if it'sa mint into.
Oh, okay.
And have you tried it with othervariations aside from, like,
(05:36):
the lemon Lacroixor anything else that you find.
So I drink more waterthan anybody probably should.
Like I always have a bunch ofdifferent kinds,
so we usually cleanand sometimes lime and sometimes
lemon, in a bunch of differentbrands.
And then the other thingI put in there sometimes is,
and this is going to people areusing this at night
(05:57):
and they have sweet stuff.
You can put tart cherry juicein there instead of
a pomegranate.
And then you getthat benefit that
that's supposedto help us sleep.
Well.
I love that little insidetip too. Yeah.
All right.
Well, I can absolutely dothose things.
Seems pretty straightforward.
I'm excited for my drink.
And so I'd love for you to shareyour story.
(06:19):
You've got, as you mentioned,many different hats
that you've worn on theparenting side as well.
And so tell us a little bitabout what it was like for you.
You know, let's startwith just entering into being
a step mom and kind ofthat transition.
Can you talk to me a little bitabout what that was
(06:40):
like for you?
Yeah, sure.
I absolutely can.
So it was not somethingthat I woke up one day
and was like, hey,this is my plan and how I'm
going to go forward my lifejust like anybody else.
You when you find the peoplethat you're going to date
or they become yourforever partners or your long
term partners, not all of itis like super strategic
and intentional.
It's, you know, just kind ofwhat happens.
(07:01):
It's in front of us.
So the story really does begin.
When I went to a happy hourwith friends, and I was with a
coworker and then we becamefriendly and then
the relationship got serious,and it was just as a part
of the story that he hadbeen married and divorced before
and had kids.
And I was young, and it'sthat phase of my life
(07:21):
where I was pretty surethat I could handle
anything that came my way.
And so I charged forwardwith all the faith
and confidence that everythingwould be fine that you only have
when you're in your mid 20s.
So I just sort of figuredI'm nice and I'm smart
and he's nice and very niceand what could go wrong?
And many, many peoplein my life, including my parents
(07:46):
and my friends did try and voicesome notes of caution
and that this is a very famouslychallenging, position for
people to be in.
But it did.
Still, it was like being hitwith a two by four
in the forehead when it beganto get complicated
and challenging.
I was totally,totally surprised.
(08:09):
And by that point, I had addedkids to the family because it
wasn't immediate.
It was a couple of years.
Well, you know, things, thingscome together.
And so I had addedkids to the family.
And so I was committed.
I was all in because that'swhen you when you do that,
in my case, it's a lot harderto extricate yourself from the
(08:31):
complication. Yeah.
So, so, yeah, I can talkI talk about this a lot.
So if there's anything specificyou are curious about,
just let me know.
It's interesting becausesome of my step kids are grown.
They're in their 30s.
This is a long time ago,but it is a very, very famously
(08:52):
complicated and challengingrelationship.
And it's also dramaticallyunder supported.
So one of the challengesfor step parents
is that you feel are you canyou don't have too many of us
feel isolated and unsure ofwho to reach out to for help,
because you don't necessarilywant to reach out and admit
(09:16):
to your friends and your parentsand, the people in your life
that this is hardand that you're not sure
you made the right decision,or what do you do with these
fabulous little people thatare in your life
that are pushing all ofyour buttons?
All of them? Yeah.
I'm so curious because I hearyou saying that that you know,
(09:36):
that it can be isolatingbecause it can be a difficult
to kind of reach out or to thatresource and support kind of
just being readilymaybe available was part of
maybe kind of your journeybecause folks had cautioned you
and like you said,you're kind of going in it
like, I got this.
You know, I think it'sa problem.
Is that was that maybe a dynamicof why it was even,
(10:00):
you know, maybe more complicatedor complicated it
for you to read?
I think so, yeah,I think definitely.
That's the caution.
One of the other things is thenatural dynamic that the person
who is your partner inyour relationship is who
you would normally talk toabout the first things
that are going on in yourpersonal life, and talking
to my husbandabout my challenges
with his children,never worked out well for me.
(10:23):
And when I work withstep parents, I caution them
to be careful with thatbecause it's it's not it's not a
great dynamic.
You know, it's very hard.
People are, protective of theirchildren and their defenses.
When when the subject comes up,I think we, we know that, right?
The mother in the pop of hercome out.
(10:43):
And so it is helpful to find athird party and somebody
who's removedfrom the situation, who can be
in your corner and help youwalk through that without
putting stress on your maritalrelationship.
Did you find that when you weretrying it because it sounds like
you were kind oftrial and error,
figuring your way through it?
(11:04):
And so it was absolutelyputting a strain on your
relationship and kind ofI'm curious, kind of
your side of things and how howthat felt as, again,
coming into this, this family.
Right.
So it is it absolutelyput a challenge on the
relationship.
One of the things that I tellpeople is I've been married
over 20 years.
(11:24):
And so one of the thingsthat I tell people specifically
to give my permissionslip to question
the relationship is I probablyquestioned if I was going
to stay in the relationshipa hundred times a day at
different seasons.
I was the wife, and I reallynot everybody feels this way,
but I really believe thatthat gives you the opportunity
to recommit to whatyou're doing, right?
(11:46):
Everybody tells youmarriage is hard,
family is hard.
And from my perspective,one of the things
that can mean isyou are deciding, okay,
this is what I'm doing.
And this is what I want to do.
And that is so even I wasquestioning it.
It's a way of strengtheningmy commitment and my resolve.
Yeah, it sounds likein those moments really kind
(12:06):
of challengingyou having to make
like an intentionalkind of decision,
know we're going to kind of workthrough this.
If I'm hearing you correctand I'm going to work
through it, then I'm going to dothe work that I'm going
to make compromiseswhen they need to be made.
Then I'm going to reevaluate.
You know, if you I didn't growup my step parents,
many people do.
(12:27):
The estimates, the data isreally bad on this,
but the estimate is four out often people.
At some point in my lifeidentify as a step parent.
And so that's a lot of people.
That's a lot of peoplewalking around using this role.
Right.
But you don't often haverepresentation,
and you don't often know whatthis family is supposed to
look like when you walk into it.
(12:47):
And so as a personwho was working
my way through it,I look back now
and I can see thatwhat I was doing was redefining
what my concept of familycould look like, redefining what
my identity within a familycould look like.
Because if you grow up with afairytale version,
which I didn't, I didn't have afairy tale family.
But if you grew up with aif you're holding on to
(13:08):
like a fairy tale or a,you know, a picket fence,
one marriage, two parents,two kids picture in your head
and what you're living doesn'tmatch that.
There is some workto release that, to release
that so that you can createa concept of happiness
for yourself.
Yeah.
And I'm so curious kind of asyou're going into that,
(13:29):
like you said, having to kindof recreate, and maybe reframe
your, your versionof what a family,
could look like.
Yeah.
Was there did you find thatthere were challenges
in kind of finding your role inhow you fit into the dynamic,
even just as far as, you know,discipline and kind of what
(13:50):
that would look like.
Is that something that was apart of your.
Oh yeah.
Navigating.
Oh my gosh, every single day,all day long all the way.
And the today when Iadvise people if they ask
me about this, I say,and I'll say this because
you mentioned a couple of timesI began by trying to fit myself
into the family that had existedbefore I was there.
(14:11):
But the advicethat I give people,
which is a reframe,a concept, right?
Just a reframe of mindsetin the way you're looking at it,
is that if you cantry to focus on creating the new
version of the family.
So try to not force yourselfto to match the things
that were there beforeyou got there.
Some of them you'll carryforward and honor and respect
(14:31):
for the family unit.
What was there beforeis really important to making
this work, but being givingyourself the freedom
to redefine it and buildwhat you need.
And so there was there wasnever a time where I always drop
my stuff.
Kids have a mom.
She's a wonderful person.
She loves them greatly.
I was never actually tryingto replace or, or be that person
(14:54):
in their life.
But they were a little,they needed all kinds of things.
And so figuring outall of the things
and how we work together was anongoing process.
And it never ends.
And it's exactly like,I mean, really, this this does
mirror itself in, family,a first family, a family
that doesn't have parents.
(15:15):
We reevaluate our roleswith our children all the time.
You know, the relationshipthat we have with a toddler
or a newborn is completelydifferent than we have with a,
pre-teen or a young adult orcollege age kid like that.
Those definitionsare natural within within the
relationship.
Yeah.
(15:36):
So I'm curious for youwhat did that redefining
and like you said, kind ofmaybe creating and finding
that new structure, that newkind of normal for you guys.
How did what doesthat journey look like for you?
What are maybe some examplesof things that you intentionally
kind of had front of mindof how you're going to
to redefine?
(15:57):
I would not give myselfthe credit of saying
that I was going to redefine itin a proactive way,
when I was actuallygoing for it.
Most of my story is,reactive and and figuring it out
by the seat in my pants while Iwas doing it.
And, and so I think that ishopefully helpful to the people
who hear the stories,because my stories are mostly
based on here's how I messedthis up. And and based on that
(16:23):
and what I learned from thatwith the people who helped me
on the books I read.
Here's how I suggest we try itmoving forward.
But, living with other people isreally hard.
I did not have kidswhen I moved in with my husband,
and his kids were therepart of the time, and I am
super upfront with peoplethat when, so they were four
and eight when I met themfrom nine and five when we moved
(16:45):
in together.
And I was really, reallyI thought they
should be quieter.
I thought they shouldhave better table manners.
I thought they shouldeat the food they ordered
at restaurants.
I thought they should sleepin a little more
on the weekends,and I thought they
should be a lot less messy.
And I was wrong about all ofthose things.
(17:06):
It was one recent oneand completely unrealistic
expectations of what lifewith small children
would be like.
Newsflash being a child doesnot actually prepare you
to be a parent.
A completely differentexperience.
And unfortunatelydoesn't. Right?
Yeah, right.
Like you think you know,you think you know
(17:29):
and you don't know and you justyou don't know.
So we squabblea lot about things
like chores and, and messin the house.
And it got to the point wherewe were working with counselors
and it was a very big deal.
It was a red line item like,this is really a problem for me.
(17:49):
My husband had a lotof strong feelings about wanting
to enjoy the time they hadwith his young kids and not
have them do chores,and I had been told to let him
set the rules and that I shouldnot get involved and that
I should back off and the way.
And I don't tell people who arestepparents, to do that is an
(18:10):
absolute rule, because I thinkit's nuanced, because when
the when, when we camedown to like, this is the end
of the line for this,I was like, hey, you're
not wanting to give your kidschores is not the same
for me as me living in a house.
It's always a messbecause the kids are there.
And so, you know, I can't,I don't care.
(18:31):
I remember saying in a momentof just desperation,
I don't care if aliens come downfrom spaceships and clean up
the house.
I don't care if you hiresomeone to bring it in.
I don't care if you clean it up.
My point is, I don't wantto have to live with the mess.
And I'm in this positionwhere you've told me
I can't speak up and doanything about it.
(18:52):
And that's not a fair placefor a stepparent or anybody
to be in a family.
I was hugely disempowering.
And so that's where we beganto shift to creating
house rules, like, what are theminimum conditions?
I needed to feel safe, secureand happy in the family
and in the house.
And one of those was,I need to be able to say that
(19:14):
the house should bea certain level of cleanliness.
Some of the time.
Yeah.
And I think you kindof mentioned that,
that idea right.
Of, of coming and, and joiningthis family and that there
are so many timeswhere it's like completely
just any of your needs,any of your stuff.
(19:35):
Put that aside.
At the same time, like yousaid, maybe having a
disadvantage or the fact thatyou haven't grown up with these
kids, right?
And they've got to be ableto learn and, and know kind of
their little quirks and,and what works best for them
and, and even to, to prepareyourself.
And you know, because atthat point you're saying
(19:57):
you said they moved in,1995, 1995, I think
is about where that was. Yeah.
Yeah.
I think, you know,even on the, on the younger
is if you had five yearsthat you weren't there
for it to be able to kind oflearn and develop and, and maybe
get accustomed to the factthat kids are, are louder
and, you know, so I it and so,Oh yeah, I love being quiet.
(20:21):
You know, they don't havethat sense that their voice is,
oh my gosh, we havethat advantage.
Yeah, we had an openplan household and they would
watch SpongeBob and it was likeyou couldn't get away from it.
You can get away from it.
And I was like, we need a housewith doors and
walls and barriers.
(20:43):
It's like, now I understandall those houses
that we're like, very.
Yeah, exactly.
So the you talk about it.
So the I think I call itlike the, like the,
it's the culture, the culturein the first family that carries
forward. Right.
And we so we moved in togetherand then we had been together
for a while.
I don't I don't rememberthe timeline for this, but for
however long we had moved inand we had moved in
(21:04):
like apartment furnitureinto a house.
And so we hit a pointwhere we were buying new couches
until the time where we boughtthe new couch.
It had been a squabble,not a fight, but there had
been like friction with whereeverybody was sitting in
the house.
So we have like the, you know,the pre-teen and the younger
kid, and then we have some maybewith a baby at this point.
And there had been like dramaand squabble about where I sat
(21:26):
and where the kids sat.
And it was really interestingbecause it was frustrating.
It wasn't a huge deal.
It was frustrating, emotional.
I never could quite put myfinger on why it was, why it
was happening orwhat was going on.
And then we bought a new couchand or pair shoes or whatever,
and we sort of picked the spotswhere we were going to sit
(21:48):
on the new couch.
And all of a sudden, as I waswatching it, I realized
that I came to the realizationthat, of course, they had had
their spots on the other couchthat were set up
before I got there.
And so the kids,the kids are kids.
They're not going to be ablevoices.
And I wasn't there.
And my husband, none of us knew,none of us knew.
And one of the I sureis, I've talked to probably
(22:09):
50 families who had a versionof this happen in their family.
They there was an unwrittensecret culture that nobody
was aware of that was causingcausing resistance and friction.
And the friction is thereand the friction is very real,
like unwrapping itand figuring out why is there
can be tricky.
And so all of a sudden,like we picked these spots,
(22:31):
which is a weird thingthat families do, right?
You have your spot at the dinnertable, you're spot in the car,
you're spot on the couch,and and they pick new spots.
And as I watched it happen,I was like, oh, wow, now
that's gone, now that's gone.
Now we all have our spotson this new couch
and it just sort of faded away.
So it's, you know, it's it'sit's a it's a process.
(22:52):
It's a process.
And one of the things that makesit really hard, to be honest
is that home is where we goto relax. Right.
Is where we shared our armorthat we wear all over the world.
And so when you're livingwith people and you've
got these levels of complexity,it's hard.
Yeah, absolutely.
(23:13):
And I think that that's such asuch a great example
because you're absolutely right.
I mean even if we wantto zoom out, you know we have
like our spots.
I remember being onthe school bus.
I mean like I said, you know,kind of the same bench right.
Every single day or in,in classrooms.
And so there is that ideathat maybe you wouldn't
even think aboutas being something that you're
(23:35):
you're kind ofhaving to navigate.
Right, with within thisfamily system and being able
to kind of go, well,that makes sense.
As far as you know,this is changing as as kids,
we may not have the wherewithal,the language to be able
to even identify.
Oh, yeah.
You know, this isthis is my safe, secure space,
(23:57):
right.
And sitting here, that's that'smy norm.
And I know what to do.
That's my routine.
It's predictable.
You know, I, I feel likeso many even grown adults.
Change is hard.
Yeah, yeah.
Just trying tothen ask these kids to to change
and maybe, missing that,that piece of that where it is
a change.
(24:17):
Even though on the surfaceit may look like just find
a different spot on the couch.
Right.
Not a big dealthat that there is maybe a lot
more underneath that, thatisn't maybe something top
of mind for folks, right?
It's like an invisiblerule book.
Yeah, yeah.
So would you say that thatbecause I heard
(24:38):
you mention at thebeginning that,
some of maybe the growing painsthat you're talking about wasn't
something that you quitemaybe experience right away.
But it was a little bit later.
Was that, you know, kind ofthe catalyst, like what started
actually kind of creatingsome of that strain.
Was it the addition of the newchildren?
(25:00):
What did that look like?
So the additionof the new children
was welcomed in my family.
So it did create it did createadditional work.
Fun fact adding children toyour family simplifies nothing.
Wonderful process.
Delightful love for the kidsdoesn't make anything easier.
I think so.
There's a period, right?
We all know this is a periodof our relationship where
(25:22):
everybody's ontheir best behavior
and everybody's doingall the things.
Thinking of thehoneymoon period.
That's true with the kids, too.
Like, everything is new,everything is exciting.
Every outing is new,all of those things.
So I think thatthe shift from that to living
the daily grind, is, is what,began to add the friction
(25:43):
blended families can bevery intense.
All right.
So the process and againthe relationship with our kids
and you know, you you date,you get to know each other.
Maybe you move in together.
There's like a sequencein a time.
And then so if my family is anyformula right.
We do it in where I didnot meet the kids
(26:05):
for a significantamount of time.
But once I met the kids,that was like a signal
that it was like a very it was aserious relationship
and everythinghappened from then very fast.
So it was likethen bam, bam, bam,
all of these thingsback to back.
And it was very intense.
And so it's likea roller coaster.
You're along for the ride.
It took a little while for meto feel the pressure and have it
(26:26):
catch up.
And then when I had a kid,that was the that was
the third kid for my husband.
My step kids alreadyhad two other kids,
so they were then that was thefifth child.
And the more extended familylife was complicated.
Like you're looking atnewborn eyes.
(26:49):
Fuller.
No, not maybe middle schooler.
I mean, everything was going on.
It was everything wasall over the place.
And so it was very, very busy.
And busy comes with intensity.
Sure.
Yeah.
So for you how did you navigatesome of that friction
as you mentioned,whether it was from the busyness
(27:10):
or just what's going on.
So a lot of it feels likeyou're holding on to the end of
a train and a caboose, likeeverything is dragging on you
trying to hold on.
And I remember that feelingjust trying to.
But, I was surprised how,And I don't think this is unique
to blended families.
I was really surprisedhow isolating newborn
(27:33):
parenting is.
I don't know why this was sosurprising, but, you know,
230 in the morningwhen you're walking
a sleeping baby, noone else is around.
No one else is.
Your friends are not aroundlike no one.
It's very it's a littlebit lonely.
And all of the thingsthat happen, then they all
fall to you when the house gets,not to matter.
(27:54):
One person to say, but they fallto the adults
in the house, gets,the stomach flu.
You can't, like, puntthat to like somebody else.
It's, like, happening to you,right?
The lower diaper you're the onewho's clean up.
And so you're looking overyour shoulder like, oh, wash me.
This is so much more interestingto watch in somebody else's,
you know, movie.
(28:15):
And so that was a surprise.
The challenge for uswas definitely an age gap.
So I was on a newborn scheduleor a baby schedule or
toddler schedule.
My stepkids were olderand they had other things
going on.
And so they didn't alwaysthey didn't always coincide.
You know, they do.
(28:35):
You take the babyto a little league game,
you know, sometimes, other timesit's like, no,
I time going home.
That kind of stuff, that kindof stuff was always challenging.
We had a lot of challengeswith communication
and calendaring, which happensin every family, but it is
more complicated when some ofthe people live in other houses,
and it's mostly complicatedif you're partners like mine
(28:56):
and not good at calendaring.
So how do you navigate that?
Like you said, you differentschedules.
You know, maybe you'retrying to calendar.
Not everybody is a calendartype of person.
You know how how was thatfor you?
What did you find like a groovethat that worked?
(29:18):
Yeah, eventually.
So we ended up it wasn't afterthe first baby was after
the second baby was born,we ended up in marriage.
I this is I phrasedthis as a joke.
I offer this so thatpeople can laugh.
We ended up in marriagecounseling over the
family calendar.
And it was like Iwas distraught.
Distraught.
And in my mindwhat was happening.
(29:39):
I put all of the blameon my husband's ex wife,
which turned out to bejust wildly unfair.
I thought that she was notgiving him the information
about what was happeningon the weekends.
I felt like every weekwas a surprise, and what was
actually happening is thatshe was giving him
the information and he wasnot sharing it.
(30:01):
And so this is a weeklyyou're on there.
Hammer's therapy works.
It's a weekly standingappointment.
We're in the office with thesame person over and over again.
And so it started with, hey,let's have a set time
for the two of you to reviewwhat's on the calendar.
So it was a and this is beforeGoogle Calendar.
Today I use Google Calendar.
Greatest invention.
(30:21):
I live and die.
I go.
This was literally a printouton my office.
Right, right.
Exactly.
And so it was like Wednesdays,you know, it was we were
getting to see what's happening.
And, and he would say,I don't think anything is
going on.
And then the weekend would comeand it was like everything
was going on and I knewnothing about it.
(30:43):
And many things overlapped, andI was expected to be cheerful
about it.
And I was in a terrible mood.
And so and we're meetingand we're meeting our meeting
and it becomes very clear,very fast that he is
the weak link in this process.
And he knows this.
I wrote, self-publisheda book about this,
about the lessons I learnedas a parent several years ago.
This story is in there.
(31:04):
It's been reviewed by allthe people involved.
It wasn't getting any better,is the thing.
So we had this meetingwhere we were supposed to do
this.
We had all of these things.
We had the public calendarwith everybody with information,
of everywhere we're supposedto be, which was actually
I posted it to the to therefrigerator, and my husband
and the kids were makingjokes on it is what was
(31:26):
actually happening.
They were totally like,here's when, you know, here's
when we tell jokes and here'sour favorite show, like,
nobody was taking it seriously.
And two things happened.
One was at some point,my stepson looked up
at the calendarand he's like, oh, that's
happening then.
And he realized thatthe information was there was
that was really that was likea banner day.
(31:46):
The other thing that happenedwas that the therapist
looked at me and he said,he's not getting better at this.
Speaking about my husband.
He knows every weekhe would come again. I'll do it.
I'll do it.
And then he would never putany information in the calendar.
He just never would.
And he just looked at meand he was like,
he's not gettingany better at this.
And we can continue to meetand talk about this.
(32:08):
But if he's not going to do it,you got to look and find
other ways.
And, I was lucky enough that mykids were old enough
at this point that they knewthat this was happening.
This is open communication.
My husband's ex wifeand the older second just began
to that directly deliverinformation to me that I needed
(32:29):
so that I was not cut out ofthe news flow.
That doesn't workin every family.
There's not always thatthat is the way it happened
in my family.
Still to this day, my husbandis mystified by the family
calendar.
Mystified.
He thinks it is magic.
Many, many years ago we werebuying a house and I gave
my calendar to the realtor,his assistant, to schedule
(32:51):
a viewings, and myhusband was Mr.
five.
He's like, how does she knowwhen you're available?
And I'm like, hi, welcome tothe 21st century.
I really I don't knowhow to help you here anymore.
Really.
Like, what do you how are youhandling your calendar? Yeah,
I don't have any I don't Idon't know how to explain it.
(33:12):
Right.
I was really like I was like,what do you mean?
Like, yeah.
Yeah.
Anything.
I just wanted to to circle backto what you mentioned.
As far as you know, we landedin marriage therapy
because of our calendar and justnormalize as a as a couples
therapist.
You are not alone, like,I, I would probably lose count
(33:35):
if I if I had to, like,think about the number
of couples where it issomething where
they're going there and you knowthey say just that I don't know.
We're getting stuck on thisparticular piece
and I don't know how to movethrough it.
And it's it's causing a lotof friction.
It's causing a lot of distress.
And so, you know, if thatis something, please,
please know thatyou are not alone.
(33:56):
That is that is somethingthat happens.
Because sometimes it can bereally hard to try
to get unstuck from those thingsthat are really impactful.
And you're like, when you'retrying to do it
just in yourself, because thenemotions can flare up, you know,
even if it's not intentional,defenses can go up
and then we end up on a topicthat's completely not not even
(34:20):
about the calendaranymore. Right.
And, you know, we're now yeah.
Who didn't do the dishes orwhatnot.
And that's right.
A lot of times it shows uplike this was we knew
what the fight was aboutand it was very concretely
about that, but it shows upall over the place.
And, communication.
And this is something,you know, people try and say
(34:41):
people will try and separatecommunication is some sort of
separate issue that has tobe worked on.
But communicationtouches everything.
And so, you know, that isand what we, you know,
the idea of havinga dedicated meeting
where we were talking aboutthe calendar with such
a small idea.
But I continue to be fascinatedby the fact that the people
(35:02):
in my life cannot read my mind.
And so really being ablelike the very first thing I try
and think about now when there'sa conflict and popping up
is like we're on the samepage, like do we have the
same information?
And it's circling backand saying, what are we
thinking?
Let's talk about it.
Let's talk about it.
Is is a powerful tool.
(35:23):
Oh, absolutely.
And I love thatyou mentioned that, that reading
my portion, because I thinkmost everyone kind of goes into
it with that thought.
I know I have, and, you know,especially when we've been
in a relationship with somebodyfor a longer period of time,
we kind of get comfortable.
(35:44):
I'm going, you've known mefor this long.
You should know, right?
That this is what I'm thinkingor this is how I'm feeling
about it.
And it does kind of create this.
This barrier.
Because even if they couldtake a guess,
you know, maybe one every fiveguesses is right.
But your point we're complicatedpeople.
We're constantly growing.
(36:05):
The way that we thinkabout things is constantly
changing.
The way that we handlethings is changing.
And so if there isn't,like you say, kind of
a consistent, intentionalcheck in of like, hey, let's
just make sure we'rewe're actually
communicating aboutwhat's on my mind, maybe how
I received it or how I meant it,right?
That we we miss thoseapproach entities to kind of
(36:26):
move away from the assumptionand really move into a place
of curiosity where we're talkingto this person.
And I really like to knowkind of what's on your mind
versus me talking for you as yougo through that.
I think I realized I forgotone more thing that we had to do
with the calendaringto really make the changes work.
And that was in this post,sort of in the communication
and boundaries.
(36:48):
We set up a rule where Ididn't know about something,
I was not expectedto participate and nobody
could be mad at me.
Right.
So and there were someother things in there,
like being positive in time,permission to make mistakes
and stuff like that.
But so if we got to the weekendand somebody had a
birthday party and it conflictedwith a baby's nap or, you know,
(37:11):
whatever, right?
I wasn't expectedto drop everything and be
a part of it, and I wasn'texpecting to be anything
other than annoyed by the factthat I wasn't.
And all of that was okay.
And that was a really importantpiece of that.
Which is because otherwise,you know, if you want
some of these things are cool,right?
It's like dance shoes and yourLittle League games
(37:34):
and fun things, you know,that people want to do
and that you're dealing with.
Like, what is my expectationof family and what's
expected of me?
And am I an okay adultin this family
if I'm not going toall of the things, like, aren't
I supposed to bethe one that buys
birthday presents, like all thegender roles and all the
things like that?
And that gave me permissionto be like, okay, so within
little time, his birthday partyis not on the calendar
(37:56):
and you're on your own, buddy.
Go have a good time.
Figure out the gift.
I'm off to the playgroundwith the little kids, you know.
Yeah, yeah.
So I know you had mentionedas well kind of a part
of this journey for you, as asyour kids are growing up, and,
(38:16):
and we're kind ofworking through and figuring out
that new normal, that kind ofyou experience a loss in your
own personal, you know,side of things that
that kind of added to whatyou were having to navigate
that journey through.
Is that correct?
Yeah, absolutely.
When my son was just about to.
(38:38):
Yeah, just about two years old,my father died from
a heart attack.
So so that would have been two,five, like 11 and 16
were the ages of the kids.
That's not right.
So 16 and 12 is what I've been.
So 12 and 16.
So my dad died, and I,he was the in their full
(39:02):
extended family.
So there's four adultsme, my husband, his ex-wife
and her new husband.
I am the youngest of thosefour adults, but I was
the first one to lose a parent.
So, this was the first,the grandparents
had to pass away.
And the first time as a familythat we had dealt with that
(39:23):
experience.
And so I had to figure out howto tell my kids and stuff kids,
the extended family.
Yeah.
Was that difficult tonavigate in the sense
that you just lost a personin your life. Yeah.
You know a, a father,a parent, a parent figure
(39:45):
in that sense while also stillhaving roles and
responsibilities.
And your, your kids are stilldoing things in their life.
I mean, was that did you saya little bit more about that?
It's really hard.
You can grieve anybody who'sbeen through a
grief of any kind.
It just sort of dominates.
It pushes you completelyinto the space you haven't been.
(40:06):
And losing a parent.
Is I guess probably every kindof grief is unique is
what is the way I'll say that.
But one of the ways that peopledescribe is it is a club
that you join, that a lot ofpeople are in, that they you
never wanted to.
Right.
Most of us will get there.
It's the appropriatesequence of events that we will
outlive our parents. Right.
(40:26):
So that is a thingthat happens. But, I reached out
to every, every therapistthat we ever that we've
ever worked with.
And I was like, what do I do?
And that was very helpful.
And the reason I bring that upis that I was asking for help
for how to tell the kids,because I did not
know how to do it.
(40:47):
But the therapist, when I wason the phone, I was looking at
looking over.
I was kind of like you,but I don't know.
You're looking at a camera.
I was looking at a windowin my kitchen.
I was standing by my sink,talking on the phone,
looking out a windowin my kitchen, and he's like,
well, how are you?
And I remember saying to him,I was like, in a moment of,
you know, take a deep breathand just be honest
(41:07):
with the person who's on who,who is, whose job is how.
Help you be honestwith your doctors.
Good advice, I said.
Sometimes I feel like I'mlosing my mind
because everything feels alittle bit different.
The colors feel different,the air feels different,
the noise feels different.
Everything feels different.
And I share thiswith people anytime
they're going through grief.
Because what he said to mereally helped me move through
(41:30):
the process.
He said, you feel differentbecause it is different for your
entire life.
Your father has been a partof your life and now for
the very first time, he's not.
Every single thing is different.
And so as I go, I am notlosing my mind.
I am living my life in a totallynew way.
Yeah.
And well, to kind ofin that moment, it sounds like
(41:53):
validating and alsonormalizing like, yeah,
it feels different because thesethings are like,
this is uncharted territory.
Yeah, exactly.
So the little kids were littleand they, you know,
they process things in a totallydifferent way than big kids.
And he helped me understandhow that was going to happen.
They don't really they don'treally know.
(42:14):
The little one is little.
He didn't really I didn'treally know.
And the big kids were,they were they were
they were good.
The way it actuallyshook down is that,
my stepdaughter came overand got the little kids
and took them overto her mom's house,
where they stayed for the daywhile I went up
and dealt with it.
Which is one of my favorite,one of my favorite stories
(42:37):
about a blended family.
Like why, you know, it doesn'twork out.
Know a lot of blended familieswhere you have these,
tight connections, but there isno question there was no,
there was no if, ands or buts.
It was just like,yeah, we were out and and I felt
very safe and secure that theirlittle kids were with their
siblings.
(42:57):
And then somebody was watchingover them and it was
very helpful.
Yeah.
I'm wondering if you wouldn'tmind an attention on
because you've mentionedjust this, this awesome
community that was comingaround and, and supporting you,
and being kind ofthe ex-wife that,
that was caring for your kidsand how what were maybe steps
(43:21):
that you intentionally kind ofconsciously took to be able
to get to a place where you,you had a relationship
like you like that was,as you mentioned,
you were dropping off your kidsand that really, you know,
vulnerable space,moment of need.
And it was able to be a placewhere you felt
that they were safe and secureand that it was,
(43:44):
you know, a burden kind of offof your already very full plate
in that moment.
So, yeah, this part ofthis dynamic, I will say
that I did with a little bitof intentions.
And my parents were divorcedgrowing up.
And now today,I knew one of them
remarried, but,that was a dynamic that I was
familiar with.
The co-parenting across houses.
And so from the very beginning,I had the intentional plan of
(44:10):
not adding to the chaosto being a part of the solution
at all times, and notadding drama.
And I think thatthat's a helpful mindset
is the way I'm going to gointo this relationship.
I'm going to be part of buildinga healthy, strong family
for this and all ofthe children.
Or is it going toor is it going to
cause conflict?
(44:31):
So I didn't always nail it.
I didn't always get itright. Okay.
And one of the storiesI share about this,
you won't know when youstep in it.
You don't know.
You don't know when you do it.
But then there's almostalways times to
of course, correct and makecorrections.
So when my step kidswere little, I said something
(44:52):
very, very glib about thebenefits of, but I didn't like
artificial sugars.
And so people should drinkfull sugary drinks
and not diet sodas.
And they did what kidsdo, which is I went to
the other house andthey repeated it.
And I heard that as children,I didn't expect it.
It's going to happen.
And I didn't have all ofthe information.
(45:13):
And I heard back directly fromtheir mom that she was like,
I don't appreciate yousaying that.
And then she let me knowthat her mom is diabetic.
So they drink diet sodain their house all the time.
And of course you do,because then it makes
absolute sense right now.
I didn't have the information.
And so, you know, what did I do?
I apologized,I apologized, and I said, I'm
(45:36):
really sorry because itwas inappropriate for me
to make such a global statementthat no one should ever do this.
This is wrong.
This is absolutely every houseand every family
is different foods and differentthings and different
preferences.
And there's a million waysto feed your body.
And so it was wrong of me,even though I didn't realize it,
to put that pressureon somebody else
(45:56):
and to to do that.
But I didn't know it whenI was saying, I was just saying
what I was thinkingin my kitchen.
Yeah.
I'm curious howhow were you able to get
to that place to makethat repair?
Because I feel likefor many folks, you know,
you receive kind ofthat feedback and instincts
like knee jerk reactionis to like defend right now,
(46:18):
you know, and, you know,sometimes people
will double down or justkind of like, you know,
what allowed you toto go to that space of saying,
yeah, like that's on me,I own that.
I'm so sorry about that.
I think I don'tI don't know that I have
a great answer for this.
Like, I think that it's a skillthat I practice over the years,
(46:40):
and not escalating likethis is today talking to me
in the future, like now.
I've been trained as a mediatorand I have, like, actual
de-escalation strategiesand things, but this is way
before that.
I just had an instinct of notmaking it worse.
And there are probablya thousand other stories from me
at that same age where I didDouble Down and do that,
but this was an instancewhere I was like,
(47:01):
oh man, like I have aired,and I apologize.
So but I just thinkthat I lucked into it
at that point.
You know, there's, there's,there's others there's
other stories where it'sridiculous, where I was
taking a firm stand on thingslike rice-a-roni, you know,
think I did the exact opposite.
So.
And it's hard it's hardto catch yourself
(47:22):
in that moment,especially like you said,
if it's something that's not,practiced every day or you've
never seen it done before,it wasn't model
that wasn't taught because theydon't teach those things,
you know, and your standards,they should.
They really should.
They really should.
We do we really need to knowa five paragraph theme?
Or should we learn aboutinterpersonal communication
(47:44):
and how to de-escalate a fight?
Because I think one of thoseis more common as an adult,
I really do.
Oh man, I could speak onthat soapbox all day long.
All right.
Well, I'm I'm so,you know, thankful for you
being willing to kind of sharea little bit of your story.
And I like to closethings out with
(48:04):
if you had access to a DeloreanGottago, you know,
back to the past,is there anything that you
would offer to yourself?
And, you know, offer to anybodywho's listening now that's
maybe currentlygoing through what
you've experienced?
I do.
So when I started talking aboutbeing a stepparent, the question
(48:24):
that people would ask me isthey would say, if you knew
then what you knownow, would you do it again?
And I think that's a reallyhard question, because I can't
actually rule that time.
And it puts me in a spotwhere I have to evaluate things
that I've already done.
So that's a hardquestion to ask.
But as I try to answerthat question in 5227 times,
I eventually realized thatthe thing that I truly, truly
(48:49):
could have done and wishI would have had
the foresight to dois to do around
a therapy myself,working on myself early on
in the relationship andin the marriage.
Because what is interestingis that all of these things
parenting, step parenting, it isit is a weird time
(49:09):
machine mirror onto your ownchildhood on your
own upbringing, and it brings upall of this weird stuff.
And so it is probably marriage.
You know more about thatthan I do.
The more aligned you are,and at peace with your own past
and your own experienceand the decisions you've made,
the easier all of this stuff is,because it's just so much better
(49:30):
than the better decisionsthat you make.
And so that is the thingthat if I honestly could do it,
that's the thing Iwould do again, to now
be stronger in myself.
At that point, I don't thinkthere's I think that if you
think no one is ever there,if you people are actually going
to do this, but like, whata beautiful thing it would be.
It's like here I'm about to makea decision, that's
(49:54):
going to impact the restof my life.
Like every single meal I eat,every single trip I take,
all of these things.
Maybe I spend six months doing,you know, self-development
therapy on myself and thenjump in them.
And what I reallyappreciate about
you saying that is,yeah, not only do
I, I'm a therapist.
I agree everything.
(50:14):
You know, I think the benefitbut also I think that
what I've seen,what I've learned,
even just on my own journey,is that we even though
we may not have what, you know,we would consider big traumas
in our life, things happen.
We experience lifeand and parenting, as you
mentioned, is, oh my goodness,such a mirror.
(50:35):
And and things come upthat we didn't even know
were in there.
But all of a sudden,you know, our our neck
hairs bristle a little bitand we feel that tension.
And as you mentioned,if we are able to seek
that support, take a littlebit of time to to go in there
and explore that in a safe way.
(50:57):
That gives us at leastan awareness that when we feel
that happening now, it'snot just coming from a reactive,
oh, I don't know what happened.
I went from 0 to 100 like that.
Now we're at least look up.
Okay, that's that's what it'sbringing up for me, that maybe
a little bit of whyit's landing.
And so just kind of, I thinkempowers you with so much more
(51:18):
knowledge, evenjust about yourself
and maybe how your brain works.
Right.
And along that lineslike when we don't do the work,
and this is the we are morelikely to expect
that other people will takeresponsibility for the things
that are happening,when really it's us that has to
do it right.
So it's like, if I'm explodingbecause I think that that's
(51:41):
that's the only thing I can do.
Right?
And and I'm like, well,you should handle it
differently.
That is not a workable solution.
Usually in a familylike nobody else.
So it has to get to the pointwhere I can do
and take ownershipfor the fact that, yeah, I'm
going to explodeand it needs to be safe too.
I think this isone of the things it needs
to be safe for peopleto have a reaction inside a
(52:02):
family, like it has to be okayfor like in our family,
there was so much going onand there were times where I was
so overstimulated.
It has to be okay.
So I have that come back.
It happens.
It happens to all of us.
But yeah, it understandingthat it starts from within is,
(52:24):
is helpful, I love that.
Well, and thank you so muchfor being, again
willing to to jump on, to shareyour story, share some of the
insights and, and thingsthat you've learned.
Because we don't have a manual,even though I wish we did.
And also thank you for sharingthis energy drink I had.
I had a couple sipswhile we were chatting and it's
it's refreshing.
(52:45):
It is.
So thank you so much.
For for joining us today.
And thank you everyone fortuning in.
We will see you next time.
If you or anyone that you knowis struggling with any of
the topics that we discussed intoday's episode, make sure
to check out our show notesfor support and resources.
(53:07):
You can get help.
Thanks again for joining uson today's episode of
The Real Family Eats.
If you're a parent readyto share your real life
parenting story, make sure toreach out to us and our website
found in the show notes.
And that goes for today's recipesocial media's support
and resources.
All of that can be foundin our show notes,
(53:29):
so make sure to check them outand make sure to follow, like,
share, subscribe,and stay up to date
on all things the real family.
I hope you'll join us next timefor more food for thought
and thoughtful food!Enjoy your eats!
I look back nowand I can see that
(00:01):
what I was doing was redefiningwhat my concept of family
could look like, redefining whatmy identity within a family
could look like.
Hey, everyone.
Thanks for joining me.
My name is Reesa,and I'm your host.
(00:23):
We are talking to real familiesabout real stories.
Here on The Real FamilyEats, where we've got food
for thought and thoughtful food.
So let's eat.
(00:44):
Welcome back everyone.
Thank you so much for joiningus again.
I'm excited for today's episode.
We have Amy joining us today.
Hi, Amy.
Thank you so muchfor being a guest on the show.
Thank you so much for having me.
Reesa.
I am so excited to heara little bit about your story.
But before we get startedwith all of that, for anybody
(01:04):
who doesn't know you, could youintroduce yourself for us?
I sure can.
My name is Amy Stoneand I am the host of the Art
of Imperfect Adulting.
I'm a mom and a stepmomand a wife and a sister
and a daughter and all ofthese things.
I am talking to you todayfrom sunny South Florida,
where it's not at all sunny.
Today.
We're having a little bitof a cool snap,
(01:26):
and so I'm wearingone of the two sweaters that
I own.
Did you have to dig it out?
I'm not in that point yet.
I have a two day limit.
And then I have to diginto the deep
parts of my closet.
And at that point I go from,you know, wearing
something that's, you know, cuteish to rocking the itchy,
(01:46):
like, almost like,is she unhoused or is she
just a Floridian who iswearing everything she owns?
Yeah. Yeah.
Fair point.
Fair point.
Probably not a whole ton of usefor some of that stuff.
Exactly. I've.
Yeah. That's right.
All right.
Well, I love it.
So you mentioned several thingsthat you've got going on.
Many hats.
(02:07):
And this is our shamelessplug section.
So tell us, what you gotgoing on, how folks can
find your podcastand get connected with you
if that's something that they'reinterested in resonates?
No, absolutely.
I'd love for peopleto join me over at the Art
of Imperfect Down Thing,which is, a podcast
and streaming show where I sharestories of choices and changes
that people make and howthat impacts the path of
(02:28):
their life.
And then I have two products.
One is step successfuland the other is a community
which I call the village.
So you can find all of that,in order to dancing.com.
Wonderful.
And that's so cool.
Can you tell us a little bitabout your community and,
the group that you mentioned?
Sure. I sure can.
(02:48):
I'm happy to do that.
So in the, way I see things,adulting is a long process.
And, you know, 18to forever, right?
And so I'm building a communitythat bridges a lot of a lot of
a lot of generationsand a lot of interest groups
and there's a focusevery single month.
(03:09):
It's, built on the premisethat imperfection
is a starting pointand not necessarily a sign
that something has gone wrongand that we can work through
these things with the helpof somebody like me who has some
coaching tools, but alsothe community aspect of
creating a loving, supportingmotivation community
that comes togetherto help people move
through transitions and changesthat we're going
(03:30):
through. Wonderful.
That sounds awesome.
And as always, we'll haveall of that linked in
our show notes.
And make sureto link up with Amy
if that's somethingthat resonates.
There's a campaign.
All right.
So tell me, we are doing,one of our first
drinks on the show.
So tell us what recipe you'resharing today.
(03:53):
And why did you choose this one?
So, you know, it came out earlyto share a recipe,
and I was like, oh,what am I going to share? Hello.
But it is.
We're recording this in January.
People who are not watching itin January, we're recording it
in January, and I do startevery year.
We started a recent thing,and one of the things
I realized is I do dry January.
I have fruit lots of years.
And so this is a mocktail.
(04:13):
And so when you ask mefor a recipe, I was like, sure,
I'll share a drink.
It's a mocktail for fun.
You know, the thing withmocktails is you can just
it can just be a drink.
Know it doesn't have to befor dry January.
It can just bea refreshing drink.
Yeah.
And what I love is, you know,when I was reading the recipe,
it has that element.
(04:35):
It's not superduper complicated,
but it seems likesomething special.
And I think that, you know what?
Parent doesn't need a littlejust time out kind of time
to themselves to drinksomething that's
maybe a little bit out of theordinary, that, you know,
just your water or your coffeeand just give you a little,
a little boost of something.
So I love it.
(04:56):
Yeah.
Okay, so tell us, whatare all the steps?
How do you make your drink?
I'll get mixing while we chat.
So I love that you say that.
It's not very complicated.
I would say is unbelievablysimple.
So I keep all of this stuffin my fridge at any given time.
So there are three ingredients.
If you don't count the ice.
(05:16):
The water.
My choice is lemon Lacroix.
And pomegranatejuice, which I use.
Just the brand.
I have no idea if that's howyou say that.
And then a little bit of limeor other things you can do.
You can get fancy if it'sa mint into.
Oh, okay.
And have you tried it with othervariations aside from, like,
(05:36):
the lemon Lacroixor anything else that you find.
So I drink more waterthan anybody probably should.
Like I always have a bunch ofdifferent kinds,
so we usually cleanand sometimes lime and sometimes
lemon, in a bunch of differentbrands.
And then the other thingI put in there sometimes is,
and this is going to people areusing this at night
(05:57):
and they have sweet stuff.
You can put tart cherry juicein there instead of
a pomegranate.
And then you getthat benefit that
that's supposedto help us sleep.
Well.
I love that little insidetip too. Yeah.
All right.
Well, I can absolutely dothose things.
Seems pretty straightforward.
I'm excited for my drink.
And so I'd love for you to shareyour story.
(06:19):
You've got, as you mentioned,many different hats
that you've worn on theparenting side as well.
And so tell us a little bitabout what it was like for you.
You know, let's startwith just entering into being
a step mom and kind ofthat transition.
Can you talk to me a little bitabout what that was
(06:40):
like for you?
Yeah, sure.
I absolutely can.
So it was not somethingthat I woke up one day
and was like, hey,this is my plan and how I'm
going to go forward my lifejust like anybody else.
You when you find the peoplethat you're going to date
or they become yourforever partners or your long
term partners, not all of itis like super strategic
and intentional.
It's, you know, just kind ofwhat happens.
(07:01):
It's in front of us.
So the story really does begin.
When I went to a happy hourwith friends, and I was with a
coworker and then we becamefriendly and then
the relationship got serious,and it was just as a part
of the story that he hadbeen married and divorced before
and had kids.
And I was young, and it'sthat phase of my life
(07:21):
where I was pretty surethat I could handle
anything that came my way.
And so I charged forwardwith all the faith
and confidence that everythingwould be fine that you only have
when you're in your mid 20s.
So I just sort of figuredI'm nice and I'm smart
and he's nice and very niceand what could go wrong?
And many, many peoplein my life, including my parents
(07:46):
and my friends did try and voicesome notes of caution
and that this is a very famouslychallenging, position for
people to be in.
But it did.
Still, it was like being hitwith a two by four
in the forehead when it beganto get complicated
and challenging.
I was totally,totally surprised.
(08:09):
And by that point, I had addedkids to the family because it
wasn't immediate.
It was a couple of years.
Well, you know, things, thingscome together.
And so I had addedkids to the family.
And so I was committed.
I was all in because that'swhen you when you do that,
in my case, it's a lot harderto extricate yourself from the
(08:31):
complication. Yeah.
So, so, yeah, I can talkI talk about this a lot.
So if there's anything specificyou are curious about,
just let me know.
It's interesting becausesome of my step kids are grown.
They're in their 30s.
This is a long time ago,but it is a very, very famously
(08:52):
complicated and challengingrelationship.
And it's also dramaticallyunder supported.
So one of the challengesfor step parents
is that you feel are you canyou don't have too many of us
feel isolated and unsure ofwho to reach out to for help,
because you don't necessarilywant to reach out and admit
(09:16):
to your friends and your parentsand, the people in your life
that this is hardand that you're not sure
you made the right decision,or what do you do with these
fabulous little people thatare in your life
that are pushing all ofyour buttons?
All of them? Yeah.
I'm so curious because I hearyou saying that that you know,
(09:36):
that it can be isolatingbecause it can be a difficult
to kind of reach out or to thatresource and support kind of
just being readilymaybe available was part of
maybe kind of your journeybecause folks had cautioned you
and like you said,you're kind of going in it
like, I got this.
You know, I think it'sa problem.
Is that was that maybe a dynamicof why it was even,
(10:00):
you know, maybe more complicatedor complicated it
for you to read?
I think so, yeah,I think definitely.
That's the caution.
One of the other things is thenatural dynamic that the person
who is your partner inyour relationship is who
you would normally talk toabout the first things
that are going on in yourpersonal life, and talking
to my husbandabout my challenges
with his children,never worked out well for me.
(10:23):
And when I work withstep parents, I caution them
to be careful with thatbecause it's it's not it's not a
great dynamic.
You know, it's very hard.
People are, protective of theirchildren and their defenses.
When when the subject comes up,I think we, we know that, right?
The mother in the pop of hercome out.
(10:43):
And so it is helpful to find athird party and somebody
who's removedfrom the situation, who can be
in your corner and help youwalk through that without
putting stress on your maritalrelationship.
Did you find that when you weretrying it because it sounds like
you were kind oftrial and error,
figuring your way through it?
(11:04):
And so it was absolutelyputting a strain on your
relationship and kind ofI'm curious, kind of
your side of things and how howthat felt as, again,
coming into this, this family.
Right.
So it is it absolutelyput a challenge on the
relationship.
One of the things that I tellpeople is I've been married
over 20 years.
(11:24):
And so one of the thingsthat I tell people specifically
to give my permissionslip to question
the relationship is I probablyquestioned if I was going
to stay in the relationshipa hundred times a day at
different seasons.
I was the wife, and I reallynot everybody feels this way,
but I really believe thatthat gives you the opportunity
to recommit to whatyou're doing, right?
(11:46):
Everybody tells youmarriage is hard,
family is hard.
And from my perspective,one of the things
that can mean isyou are deciding, okay,
this is what I'm doing.
And this is what I want to do.
And that is so even I wasquestioning it.
It's a way of strengtheningmy commitment and my resolve.
Yeah, it sounds likein those moments really kind
(12:06):
of challengingyou having to make
like an intentionalkind of decision,
know we're going to kind of workthrough this.
If I'm hearing you correctand I'm going to work
through it, then I'm going to dothe work that I'm going
to make compromiseswhen they need to be made.
Then I'm going to reevaluate.
You know, if you I didn't growup my step parents,
many people do.
(12:27):
The estimates, the data isreally bad on this,
but the estimate is four out often people.
At some point in my lifeidentify as a step parent.
And so that's a lot of people.
That's a lot of peoplewalking around using this role.
Right.
But you don't often haverepresentation,
and you don't often know whatthis family is supposed to
look like when you walk into it.
(12:47):
And so as a personwho was working
my way through it,I look back now
and I can see thatwhat I was doing was redefining
what my concept of familycould look like, redefining what
my identity within a familycould look like.
Because if you grow up with afairytale version,
which I didn't, I didn't have afairy tale family.
But if you grew up with aif you're holding on to
(13:08):
like a fairy tale or a,you know, a picket fence,
one marriage, two parents,two kids picture in your head
and what you're living doesn'tmatch that.
There is some workto release that, to release
that so that you can createa concept of happiness
for yourself.
Yeah.
And I'm so curious kind of asyou're going into that,
(13:29):
like you said, having to kindof recreate, and maybe reframe
your, your versionof what a family,
could look like.
Yeah.
Was there did you find thatthere were challenges
in kind of finding your role inhow you fit into the dynamic,
even just as far as, you know,discipline and kind of what
(13:50):
that would look like.
Is that something that was apart of your.
Oh yeah.
Navigating.
Oh my gosh, every single day,all day long all the way.
And the today when Iadvise people if they ask
me about this, I say,and I'll say this because
you mentioned a couple of timesI began by trying to fit myself
into the family that had existedbefore I was there.
(14:11):
But the advicethat I give people,
which is a reframe,a concept, right?
Just a reframe of mindsetin the way you're looking at it,
is that if you cantry to focus on creating the new
version of the family.
So try to not force yourselfto to match the things
that were there beforeyou got there.
Some of them you'll carryforward and honor and respect
(14:31):
for the family unit.
What was there beforeis really important to making
this work, but being givingyourself the freedom
to redefine it and buildwhat you need.
And so there was there wasnever a time where I always drop
my stuff.
Kids have a mom.
She's a wonderful person.
She loves them greatly.
I was never actually tryingto replace or, or be that person
(14:54):
in their life.
But they were a little,they needed all kinds of things.
And so figuring outall of the things
and how we work together was anongoing process.
And it never ends.
And it's exactly like,I mean, really, this this does
mirror itself in, family,a first family, a family
that doesn't have parents.
(15:15):
We reevaluate our roleswith our children all the time.
You know, the relationshipthat we have with a toddler
or a newborn is completelydifferent than we have with a,
pre-teen or a young adult orcollege age kid like that.
Those definitionsare natural within within the
relationship.
Yeah.
(15:36):
So I'm curious for youwhat did that redefining
and like you said, kind ofmaybe creating and finding
that new structure, that newkind of normal for you guys.
How did what doesthat journey look like for you?
What are maybe some examplesof things that you intentionally
kind of had front of mindof how you're going to
to redefine?
(15:57):
I would not give myselfthe credit of saying
that I was going to redefine itin a proactive way,
when I was actuallygoing for it.
Most of my story is,reactive and and figuring it out
by the seat in my pants while Iwas doing it.
And, and so I think that ishopefully helpful to the people
who hear the stories,because my stories are mostly
based on here's how I messedthis up. And and based on that
(16:23):
and what I learned from thatwith the people who helped me
on the books I read.
Here's how I suggest we try itmoving forward.
But, living with other people isreally hard.
I did not have kidswhen I moved in with my husband,
and his kids were therepart of the time, and I am
super upfront with peoplethat when, so they were four
and eight when I met themfrom nine and five when we moved
(16:45):
in together.
And I was really, reallyI thought they
should be quieter.
I thought they shouldhave better table manners.
I thought they shouldeat the food they ordered
at restaurants.
I thought they should sleepin a little more
on the weekends,and I thought they
should be a lot less messy.
And I was wrong about all ofthose things.
(17:06):
It was one recent oneand completely unrealistic
expectations of what lifewith small children
would be like.
Newsflash being a child doesnot actually prepare you
to be a parent.
A completely differentexperience.
And unfortunatelydoesn't. Right?
Yeah, right.
Like you think you know,you think you know
(17:29):
and you don't know and you justyou don't know.
So we squabblea lot about things
like chores and, and messin the house.
And it got to the point wherewe were working with counselors
and it was a very big deal.
It was a red line item like,this is really a problem for me.
(17:49):
My husband had a lotof strong feelings about wanting
to enjoy the time they hadwith his young kids and not
have them do chores,and I had been told to let him
set the rules and that I shouldnot get involved and that
I should back off and the way.
And I don't tell people who arestepparents, to do that is an
(18:10):
absolute rule, because I thinkit's nuanced, because when
the when, when we camedown to like, this is the end
of the line for this,I was like, hey, you're
not wanting to give your kidschores is not the same
for me as me living in a house.
It's always a messbecause the kids are there.
And so, you know, I can't,I don't care.
(18:31):
I remember saying in a momentof just desperation,
I don't care if aliens come downfrom spaceships and clean up
the house.
I don't care if you hiresomeone to bring it in.
I don't care if you clean it up.
My point is, I don't wantto have to live with the mess.
And I'm in this positionwhere you've told me
I can't speak up and doanything about it.
(18:52):
And that's not a fair placefor a stepparent or anybody
to be in a family.
I was hugely disempowering.
And so that's where we beganto shift to creating
house rules, like, what are theminimum conditions?
I needed to feel safe, secureand happy in the family
and in the house.
And one of those was,I need to be able to say that
(19:14):
the house should bea certain level of cleanliness.
Some of the time.
Yeah.
And I think you kindof mentioned that,
that idea right.
Of, of coming and, and joiningthis family and that there
are so many timeswhere it's like completely
just any of your needs,any of your stuff.
(19:35):
Put that aside.
At the same time, like yousaid, maybe having a
disadvantage or the fact thatyou haven't grown up with these
kids, right?
And they've got to be ableto learn and, and know kind of
their little quirks and,and what works best for them
and, and even to, to prepareyourself.
And you know, because atthat point you're saying
(19:57):
you said they moved in,1995, 1995, I think
is about where that was. Yeah.
Yeah.
I think, you know,even on the, on the younger
is if you had five yearsthat you weren't there
for it to be able to kind oflearn and develop and, and maybe
get accustomed to the factthat kids are, are louder
and, you know, so I it and so,Oh yeah, I love being quiet.
(20:21):
You know, they don't havethat sense that their voice is,
oh my gosh, we havethat advantage.
Yeah, we had an openplan household and they would
watch SpongeBob and it was likeyou couldn't get away from it.
You can get away from it.
And I was like, we need a housewith doors and
walls and barriers.
(20:43):
It's like, now I understandall those houses
that we're like, very.
Yeah, exactly.
So the you talk about it.
So the I think I call itlike the, like the,
it's the culture, the culturein the first family that carries
forward. Right.
And we so we moved in togetherand then we had been together
for a while.
I don't I don't rememberthe timeline for this, but for
however long we had moved inand we had moved in
(21:04):
like apartment furnitureinto a house.
And so we hit a pointwhere we were buying new couches
until the time where we boughtthe new couch.
It had been a squabble,not a fight, but there had
been like friction with whereeverybody was sitting in
the house.
So we have like the, you know,the pre-teen and the younger
kid, and then we have some maybewith a baby at this point.
And there had been like dramaand squabble about where I sat
(21:26):
and where the kids sat.
And it was really interestingbecause it was frustrating.
It wasn't a huge deal.
It was frustrating, emotional.
I never could quite put myfinger on why it was, why it
was happening orwhat was going on.
And then we bought a new couchand or pair shoes or whatever,
and we sort of picked the spotswhere we were going to sit
(21:48):
on the new couch.
And all of a sudden, as I waswatching it, I realized
that I came to the realizationthat, of course, they had had
their spots on the other couchthat were set up
before I got there.
And so the kids,the kids are kids.
They're not going to be ablevoices.
And I wasn't there.
And my husband, none of us knew,none of us knew.
And one of the I sureis, I've talked to probably
(22:09):
50 families who had a versionof this happen in their family.
They there was an unwrittensecret culture that nobody
was aware of that was causingcausing resistance and friction.
And the friction is thereand the friction is very real,
like unwrapping itand figuring out why is there
can be tricky.
And so all of a sudden,like we picked these spots,
(22:31):
which is a weird thingthat families do, right?
You have your spot at the dinnertable, you're spot in the car,
you're spot on the couch,and and they pick new spots.
And as I watched it happen,I was like, oh, wow, now
that's gone, now that's gone.
Now we all have our spotson this new couch
and it just sort of faded away.
So it's, you know, it's it'sit's a it's a process.
(22:52):
It's a process.
And one of the things that makesit really hard, to be honest
is that home is where we goto relax. Right.
Is where we shared our armorthat we wear all over the world.
And so when you're livingwith people and you've
got these levels of complexity,it's hard.
Yeah, absolutely.
(23:13):
And I think that that's such asuch a great example
because you're absolutely right.
I mean even if we wantto zoom out, you know we have
like our spots.
I remember being onthe school bus.
I mean like I said, you know,kind of the same bench right.
Every single day or in,in classrooms.
And so there is that ideathat maybe you wouldn't
even think aboutas being something that you're
(23:35):
you're kind ofhaving to navigate.
Right, with within thisfamily system and being able
to kind of go, well,that makes sense.
As far as you know,this is changing as as kids,
we may not have the wherewithal,the language to be able
to even identify.
Oh, yeah.
You know, this isthis is my safe, secure space,
(23:57):
right.
And sitting here, that's that'smy norm.
And I know what to do.
That's my routine.
It's predictable.
You know, I, I feel likeso many even grown adults.
Change is hard.
Yeah, yeah.
Just trying tothen ask these kids to to change
and maybe, missing that,that piece of that where it is
a change.
(24:17):
Even though on the surfaceit may look like just find
a different spot on the couch.
Right.
Not a big dealthat that there is maybe a lot
more underneath that, thatisn't maybe something top
of mind for folks, right?
It's like an invisiblerule book.
Yeah, yeah.
So would you say that thatbecause I heard
(24:38):
you mention at thebeginning that,
some of maybe the growing painsthat you're talking about wasn't
something that you quitemaybe experience right away.
But it was a little bit later.
Was that, you know, kind ofthe catalyst, like what started
actually kind of creatingsome of that strain.
Was it the addition of the newchildren?
(25:00):
What did that look like?
So the additionof the new children
was welcomed in my family.
So it did create it did createadditional work.
Fun fact adding children toyour family simplifies nothing.
Wonderful process.
Delightful love for the kidsdoesn't make anything easier.
I think so.
There's a period, right?
We all know this is a periodof our relationship where
(25:22):
everybody's ontheir best behavior
and everybody's doingall the things.
Thinking of thehoneymoon period.
That's true with the kids, too.
Like, everything is new,everything is exciting.
Every outing is new,all of those things.
So I think thatthe shift from that to living
the daily grind, is, is what,began to add the friction
(25:43):
blended families can bevery intense.
All right.
So the process and againthe relationship with our kids
and you know, you you date,you get to know each other.
Maybe you move in together.
There's like a sequencein a time.
And then so if my family is anyformula right.
We do it in where I didnot meet the kids
(26:05):
for a significantamount of time.
But once I met the kids,that was like a signal
that it was like a very it was aserious relationship
and everythinghappened from then very fast.
So it was likethen bam, bam, bam,
all of these thingsback to back.
And it was very intense.
And so it's likea roller coaster.
You're along for the ride.
It took a little while for meto feel the pressure and have it
(26:26):
catch up.
And then when I had a kid,that was the that was
the third kid for my husband.
My step kids alreadyhad two other kids,
so they were then that was thefifth child.
And the more extended familylife was complicated.
Like you're looking atnewborn eyes.
(26:49):
Fuller.
No, not maybe middle schooler.
I mean, everything was going on.
It was everything wasall over the place.
And so it was very, very busy.
And busy comes with intensity.
Sure.
Yeah.
So for you how did you navigatesome of that friction
as you mentioned,whether it was from the busyness
(27:10):
or just what's going on.
So a lot of it feels likeyou're holding on to the end of
a train and a caboose, likeeverything is dragging on you
trying to hold on.
And I remember that feelingjust trying to.
But, I was surprised how,And I don't think this is unique
to blended families.
I was really surprisedhow isolating newborn
(27:33):
parenting is.
I don't know why this was sosurprising, but, you know,
230 in the morningwhen you're walking
a sleeping baby, noone else is around.
No one else is.
Your friends are not aroundlike no one.
It's very it's a littlebit lonely.
And all of the thingsthat happen, then they all
fall to you when the house gets,not to matter.
(27:54):
One person to say, but they fallto the adults
in the house, gets,the stomach flu.
You can't, like, puntthat to like somebody else.
It's, like, happening to you,right?
The lower diaper you're the onewho's clean up.
And so you're looking overyour shoulder like, oh, wash me.
This is so much more interestingto watch in somebody else's,
you know, movie.
(28:15):
And so that was a surprise.
The challenge for uswas definitely an age gap.
So I was on a newborn scheduleor a baby schedule or
toddler schedule.
My stepkids were olderand they had other things
going on.
And so they didn't alwaysthey didn't always coincide.
You know, they do.
(28:35):
You take the babyto a little league game,
you know, sometimes, other timesit's like, no,
I time going home.
That kind of stuff, that kindof stuff was always challenging.
We had a lot of challengeswith communication
and calendaring, which happensin every family, but it is
more complicated when some ofthe people live in other houses,
and it's mostly complicatedif you're partners like mine
(28:56):
and not good at calendaring.
So how do you navigate that?
Like you said, you differentschedules.
You know, maybe you'retrying to calendar.
Not everybody is a calendartype of person.
You know how how was thatfor you?
What did you find like a groovethat that worked?
(29:18):
Yeah, eventually.
So we ended up it wasn't afterthe first baby was after
the second baby was born,we ended up in marriage.
I this is I phrasedthis as a joke.
I offer this so thatpeople can laugh.
We ended up in marriagecounseling over the
family calendar.
And it was like Iwas distraught.
Distraught.
And in my mindwhat was happening.
(29:39):
I put all of the blameon my husband's ex wife,
which turned out to bejust wildly unfair.
I thought that she was notgiving him the information
about what was happeningon the weekends.
I felt like every weekwas a surprise, and what was
actually happening is thatshe was giving him
the information and he wasnot sharing it.
(30:01):
And so this is a weeklyyou're on there.
Hammer's therapy works.
It's a weekly standingappointment.
We're in the office with thesame person over and over again.
And so it started with, hey,let's have a set time
for the two of you to reviewwhat's on the calendar.
So it was a and this is beforeGoogle Calendar.
Today I use Google Calendar.
Greatest invention.
(30:21):
I live and die.
I go.
This was literally a printouton my office.
Right, right.
Exactly.
And so it was like Wednesdays,you know, it was we were
getting to see what's happening.
And, and he would say,I don't think anything is
going on.
And then the weekend would comeand it was like everything
was going on and I knewnothing about it.
(30:43):
And many things overlapped, andI was expected to be cheerful
about it.
And I was in a terrible mood.
And so and we're meetingand we're meeting our meeting
and it becomes very clear,very fast that he is
the weak link in this process.
And he knows this.
I wrote, self-publisheda book about this,
about the lessons I learnedas a parent several years ago.
This story is in there.
(31:04):
It's been reviewed by allthe people involved.
It wasn't getting any better,is the thing.
So we had this meetingwhere we were supposed to do
this.
We had all of these things.
We had the public calendarwith everybody with information,
of everywhere we're supposedto be, which was actually
I posted it to the to therefrigerator, and my husband
and the kids were makingjokes on it is what was
(31:26):
actually happening.
They were totally like,here's when, you know, here's
when we tell jokes and here'sour favorite show, like,
nobody was taking it seriously.
And two things happened.
One was at some point,my stepson looked up
at the calendarand he's like, oh, that's
happening then.
And he realized thatthe information was there was
that was really that was likea banner day.
(31:46):
The other thing that happenedwas that the therapist
looked at me and he said,he's not getting better at this.
Speaking about my husband.
He knows every weekhe would come again. I'll do it.
I'll do it.
And then he would never putany information in the calendar.
He just never would.
And he just looked at meand he was like,
he's not gettingany better at this.
And we can continue to meetand talk about this.
(32:08):
But if he's not going to do it,you got to look and find
other ways.
And, I was lucky enough that mykids were old enough
at this point that they knewthat this was happening.
This is open communication.
My husband's ex wifeand the older second just began
to that directly deliverinformation to me that I needed
(32:29):
so that I was not cut out ofthe news flow.
That doesn't workin every family.
There's not always thatthat is the way it happened
in my family.
Still to this day, my husbandis mystified by the family
calendar.
Mystified.
He thinks it is magic.
Many, many years ago we werebuying a house and I gave
my calendar to the realtor,his assistant, to schedule
(32:51):
a viewings, and myhusband was Mr.
five.
He's like, how does she knowwhen you're available?
And I'm like, hi, welcome tothe 21st century.
I really I don't knowhow to help you here anymore.
Really.
Like, what do you how are youhandling your calendar? Yeah,
I don't have any I don't Idon't know how to explain it.
(33:12):
Right.
I was really like I was like,what do you mean?
Like, yeah.
Yeah.
Anything.
I just wanted to to circle backto what you mentioned.
As far as you know, we landedin marriage therapy
because of our calendar and justnormalize as a as a couples
therapist.
You are not alone, like,I, I would probably lose count
(33:35):
if I if I had to, like,think about the number
of couples where it issomething where
they're going there and you knowthey say just that I don't know.
We're getting stuck on thisparticular piece
and I don't know how to movethrough it.
And it's it's causing a lotof friction.
It's causing a lot of distress.
And so, you know, if thatis something, please,
please know thatyou are not alone.
(33:56):
That is that is somethingthat happens.
Because sometimes it can bereally hard to try
to get unstuck from those thingsthat are really impactful.
And you're like, when you'retrying to do it
just in yourself, because thenemotions can flare up, you know,
even if it's not intentional,defenses can go up
and then we end up on a topicthat's completely not not even
(34:20):
about the calendaranymore. Right.
And, you know, we're now yeah.
Who didn't do the dishes orwhatnot.
And that's right.
A lot of times it shows uplike this was we knew
what the fight was aboutand it was very concretely
about that, but it shows upall over the place.
And, communication.
And this is something,you know, people try and say
(34:41):
people will try and separatecommunication is some sort of
separate issue that has tobe worked on.
But communicationtouches everything.
And so, you know, that isand what we, you know,
the idea of havinga dedicated meeting
where we were talking aboutthe calendar with such
a small idea.
But I continue to be fascinatedby the fact that the people
(35:02):
in my life cannot read my mind.
And so really being ablelike the very first thing I try
and think about now when there'sa conflict and popping up
is like we're on the samepage, like do we have the
same information?
And it's circling backand saying, what are we
thinking?
Let's talk about it.
Let's talk about it.
Is is a powerful tool.
(35:23):
Oh, absolutely.
And I love thatyou mentioned that, that reading
my portion, because I thinkmost everyone kind of goes into
it with that thought.
I know I have, and, you know,especially when we've been
in a relationship with somebodyfor a longer period of time,
we kind of get comfortable.
(35:44):
I'm going, you've known mefor this long.
You should know, right?
That this is what I'm thinkingor this is how I'm feeling
about it.
And it does kind of create this.
This barrier.
Because even if they couldtake a guess,
you know, maybe one every fiveguesses is right.
But your point we're complicatedpeople.
We're constantly growing.
(36:05):
The way that we thinkabout things is constantly
changing.
The way that we handlethings is changing.
And so if there isn't,like you say, kind of
a consistent, intentionalcheck in of like, hey, let's
just make sure we'rewe're actually
communicating aboutwhat's on my mind, maybe how
I received it or how I meant it,right?
That we we miss thoseapproach entities to kind of
(36:26):
move away from the assumptionand really move into a place
of curiosity where we're talkingto this person.
And I really like to knowkind of what's on your mind
versus me talking for you as yougo through that.
I think I realized I forgotone more thing that we had to do
with the calendaringto really make the changes work.
And that was in this post,sort of in the communication
and boundaries.
(36:48):
We set up a rule where Ididn't know about something,
I was not expectedto participate and nobody
could be mad at me.
Right.
So and there were someother things in there,
like being positive in time,permission to make mistakes
and stuff like that.
But so if we got to the weekendand somebody had a
birthday party and it conflictedwith a baby's nap or, you know,
(37:11):
whatever, right?
I wasn't expectedto drop everything and be
a part of it, and I wasn'texpecting to be anything
other than annoyed by the factthat I wasn't.
And all of that was okay.
And that was a really importantpiece of that.
Which is because otherwise,you know, if you want
some of these things are cool,right?
It's like dance shoes and yourLittle League games
(37:34):
and fun things, you know,that people want to do
and that you're dealing with.
Like, what is my expectationof family and what's
expected of me?
And am I an okay adultin this family
if I'm not going toall of the things, like, aren't
I supposed to bethe one that buys
birthday presents, like all thegender roles and all the
things like that?
And that gave me permissionto be like, okay, so within
little time, his birthday partyis not on the calendar
(37:56):
and you're on your own, buddy.
Go have a good time.
Figure out the gift.
I'm off to the playgroundwith the little kids, you know.
Yeah, yeah.
So I know you had mentionedas well kind of a part
of this journey for you, as asyour kids are growing up, and,
(38:16):
and we're kind ofworking through and figuring out
that new normal, that kind ofyou experience a loss in your
own personal, you know,side of things that
that kind of added to whatyou were having to navigate
that journey through.
Is that correct?
Yeah, absolutely.
When my son was just about to.
(38:38):
Yeah, just about two years old,my father died from
a heart attack.
So so that would have been two,five, like 11 and 16
were the ages of the kids.
That's not right.
So 16 and 12 is what I've been.
So 12 and 16.
So my dad died, and I,he was the in their full
(39:02):
extended family.
So there's four adultsme, my husband, his ex-wife
and her new husband.
I am the youngest of thosefour adults, but I was
the first one to lose a parent.
So, this was the first,the grandparents
had to pass away.
And the first time as a familythat we had dealt with that
(39:23):
experience.
And so I had to figure out howto tell my kids and stuff kids,
the extended family.
Yeah.
Was that difficult tonavigate in the sense
that you just lost a personin your life. Yeah.
You know a, a father,a parent, a parent figure
(39:45):
in that sense while also stillhaving roles and
responsibilities.
And your, your kids are stilldoing things in their life.
I mean, was that did you saya little bit more about that?
It's really hard.
You can grieve anybody who'sbeen through a
grief of any kind.
It just sort of dominates.
It pushes you completelyinto the space you haven't been.
(40:06):
And losing a parent.
Is I guess probably every kindof grief is unique is
what is the way I'll say that.
But one of the ways that peopledescribe is it is a club
that you join, that a lot ofpeople are in, that they you
never wanted to.
Right.
Most of us will get there.
It's the appropriatesequence of events that we will
outlive our parents. Right.
(40:26):
So that is a thingthat happens. But, I reached out
to every, every therapistthat we ever that we've
ever worked with.
And I was like, what do I do?
And that was very helpful.
And the reason I bring that upis that I was asking for help
for how to tell the kids,because I did not
know how to do it.
(40:47):
But the therapist, when I wason the phone, I was looking at
looking over.
I was kind of like you,but I don't know.
You're looking at a camera.
I was looking at a windowin my kitchen.
I was standing by my sink,talking on the phone,
looking out a windowin my kitchen, and he's like,
well, how are you?
And I remember saying to him,I was like, in a moment of,
you know, take a deep breathand just be honest
(41:07):
with the person who's on who,who is, whose job is how.
Help you be honestwith your doctors.
Good advice, I said.
Sometimes I feel like I'mlosing my mind
because everything feels alittle bit different.
The colors feel different,the air feels different,
the noise feels different.
Everything feels different.
And I share thiswith people anytime
they're going through grief.
Because what he said to mereally helped me move through
(41:30):
the process.
He said, you feel differentbecause it is different for your
entire life.
Your father has been a partof your life and now for
the very first time, he's not.
Every single thing is different.
And so as I go, I am notlosing my mind.
I am living my life in a totallynew way.
Yeah.
And well, to kind ofin that moment, it sounds like
(41:53):
validating and alsonormalizing like, yeah,
it feels different because thesethings are like,
this is uncharted territory.
Yeah, exactly.
So the little kids were littleand they, you know,
they process things in a totallydifferent way than big kids.
And he helped me understandhow that was going to happen.
They don't really they don'treally know.
(42:14):
The little one is little.
He didn't really I didn'treally know.
And the big kids were,they were they were
they were good.
The way it actuallyshook down is that,
my stepdaughter came overand got the little kids
and took them overto her mom's house,
where they stayed for the daywhile I went up
and dealt with it.
Which is one of my favorite,one of my favorite stories
(42:37):
about a blended family.
Like why, you know, it doesn'twork out.
Know a lot of blended familieswhere you have these,
tight connections, but there isno question there was no,
there was no if, ands or buts.
It was just like,yeah, we were out and and I felt
very safe and secure that theirlittle kids were with their
siblings.
(42:57):
And then somebody was watchingover them and it was
very helpful.
Yeah.
I'm wondering if you wouldn'tmind an attention on
because you've mentionedjust this, this awesome
community that was comingaround and, and supporting you,
and being kind ofthe ex-wife that,
that was caring for your kidsand how what were maybe steps
(43:21):
that you intentionally kind ofconsciously took to be able
to get to a place where you,you had a relationship
like you like that was,as you mentioned,
you were dropping off your kidsand that really, you know,
vulnerable space,moment of need.
And it was able to be a placewhere you felt
that they were safe and secureand that it was,
(43:44):
you know, a burden kind of offof your already very full plate
in that moment.
So, yeah, this part ofthis dynamic, I will say
that I did with a little bitof intentions.
And my parents were divorcedgrowing up.
And now today,I knew one of them
remarried, but,that was a dynamic that I was
familiar with.
The co-parenting across houses.
And so from the very beginning,I had the intentional plan of
(44:10):
not adding to the chaosto being a part of the solution
at all times, and notadding drama.
And I think thatthat's a helpful mindset
is the way I'm going to gointo this relationship.
I'm going to be part of buildinga healthy, strong family
for this and all ofthe children.
Or is it going toor is it going to
cause conflict?
(44:31):
So I didn't always nail it.
I didn't always get itright. Okay.
And one of the storiesI share about this,
you won't know when youstep in it.
You don't know.
You don't know when you do it.
But then there's almostalways times to
of course, correct and makecorrections.
So when my step kidswere little, I said something
(44:52):
very, very glib about thebenefits of, but I didn't like
artificial sugars.
And so people should drinkfull sugary drinks
and not diet sodas.
And they did what kidsdo, which is I went to
the other house andthey repeated it.
And I heard that as children,I didn't expect it.
It's going to happen.
And I didn't have all ofthe information.
(45:13):
And I heard back directly fromtheir mom that she was like,
I don't appreciate yousaying that.
And then she let me knowthat her mom is diabetic.
So they drink diet sodain their house all the time.
And of course you do,because then it makes
absolute sense right now.
I didn't have the information.
And so, you know, what did I do?
I apologized,I apologized, and I said, I'm
(45:36):
really sorry because itwas inappropriate for me
to make such a global statementthat no one should ever do this.
This is wrong.
This is absolutely every houseand every family
is different foods and differentthings and different
preferences.
And there's a million waysto feed your body.
And so it was wrong of me,even though I didn't realize it,
to put that pressureon somebody else
(45:56):
and to to do that.
But I didn't know it whenI was saying, I was just saying
what I was thinkingin my kitchen.
Yeah.
I'm curious howhow were you able to get
to that place to makethat repair?
Because I feel likefor many folks, you know,
you receive kind ofthat feedback and instincts
like knee jerk reactionis to like defend right now,
(46:18):
you know, and, you know,sometimes people
will double down or justkind of like, you know,
what allowed you toto go to that space of saying,
yeah, like that's on me,I own that.
I'm so sorry about that.
I think I don'tI don't know that I have
a great answer for this.
Like, I think that it's a skillthat I practice over the years,
(46:40):
and not escalating likethis is today talking to me
in the future, like now.
I've been trained as a mediatorand I have, like, actual
de-escalation strategiesand things, but this is way
before that.
I just had an instinct of notmaking it worse.
And there are probablya thousand other stories from me
at that same age where I didDouble Down and do that,
but this was an instancewhere I was like,
(47:01):
oh man, like I have aired,and I apologize.
So but I just thinkthat I lucked into it
at that point.
You know, there's, there's,there's others there's
other stories where it'sridiculous, where I was
taking a firm stand on thingslike rice-a-roni, you know,
think I did the exact opposite.
So.
And it's hard it's hardto catch yourself
(47:22):
in that moment,especially like you said,
if it's something that's not,practiced every day or you've
never seen it done before,it wasn't model
that wasn't taught because theydon't teach those things,
you know, and your standards,they should.
They really should.
They really should.
We do we really need to knowa five paragraph theme?
Or should we learn aboutinterpersonal communication
(47:44):
and how to de-escalate a fight?
Because I think one of thoseis more common as an adult,
I really do.
Oh man, I could speak onthat soapbox all day long.
All right.
Well, I'm I'm so,you know, thankful for you
being willing to kind of sharea little bit of your story.
And I like to closethings out with
(48:04):
if you had access to a DeloreanGottago, you know,
back to the past,is there anything that you
would offer to yourself?
And, you know, offer to anybodywho's listening now that's
maybe currentlygoing through what
you've experienced?
I do.
So when I started talking aboutbeing a stepparent, the question
(48:24):
that people would ask me isthey would say, if you knew
then what you knownow, would you do it again?
And I think that's a reallyhard question, because I can't
actually rule that time.
And it puts me in a spotwhere I have to evaluate things
that I've already done.
So that's a hardquestion to ask.
But as I try to answerthat question in 5227 times,
I eventually realized thatthe thing that I truly, truly
(48:49):
could have done and wishI would have had
the foresight to dois to do around
a therapy myself,working on myself early on
in the relationship andin the marriage.
Because what is interestingis that all of these things
parenting, step parenting, it isit is a weird time
(49:09):
machine mirror onto your ownchildhood on your
own upbringing, and it brings upall of this weird stuff.
And so it is probably marriage.
You know more about thatthan I do.
The more aligned you are,and at peace with your own past
and your own experienceand the decisions you've made,
the easier all of this stuff is,because it's just so much better
(49:30):
than the better decisionsthat you make.
And so that is the thingthat if I honestly could do it,
that's the thing Iwould do again, to now
be stronger in myself.
At that point, I don't thinkthere's I think that if you
think no one is ever there,if you people are actually going
to do this, but like, whata beautiful thing it would be.
It's like here I'm about to makea decision, that's
(49:54):
going to impact the restof my life.
Like every single meal I eat,every single trip I take,
all of these things.
Maybe I spend six months doing,you know, self-development
therapy on myself and thenjump in them.
And what I reallyappreciate about
you saying that is,yeah, not only do
I, I'm a therapist.
I agree everything.
(50:14):
You know, I think the benefitbut also I think that
what I've seen,what I've learned,
even just on my own journey,is that we even though
we may not have what, you know,we would consider big traumas
in our life, things happen.
We experience lifeand and parenting, as you
mentioned, is, oh my goodness,such a mirror.
(50:35):
And and things come upthat we didn't even know
were in there.
But all of a sudden,you know, our our neck
hairs bristle a little bitand we feel that tension.
And as you mentioned,if we are able to seek
that support, take a littlebit of time to to go in there
and explore that in a safe way.
(50:57):
That gives us at leastan awareness that when we feel
that happening now, it'snot just coming from a reactive,
oh, I don't know what happened.
I went from 0 to 100 like that.
Now we're at least look up.
Okay, that's that's what it'sbringing up for me, that maybe
a little bit of whyit's landing.
And so just kind of, I thinkempowers you with so much more
(51:18):
knowledge, evenjust about yourself
and maybe how your brain works.
Right.
And along that lineslike when we don't do the work,
and this is the we are morelikely to expect
that other people will takeresponsibility for the things
that are happening,when really it's us that has to
do it right.
So it's like, if I'm explodingbecause I think that that's
(51:41):
that's the only thing I can do.
Right?
And and I'm like, well,you should handle it
differently.
That is not a workable solution.
Usually in a familylike nobody else.
So it has to get to the pointwhere I can do
and take ownershipfor the fact that, yeah, I'm
going to explodeand it needs to be safe too.
I think this isone of the things it needs
to be safe for peopleto have a reaction inside a
(52:02):
family, like it has to be okayfor like in our family,
there was so much going onand there were times where I was
so overstimulated.
It has to be okay.
So I have that come back.
It happens.
It happens to all of us.
But yeah, it understandingthat it starts from within is,
(52:24):
is helpful, I love that.
Well, and thank you so muchfor being, again
willing to to jump on, to shareyour story, share some of the
insights and, and thingsthat you've learned.
Because we don't have a manual,even though I wish we did.
And also thank you for sharingthis energy drink I had.
I had a couple sipswhile we were chatting and it's
it's refreshing.
(52:45):
It is.
So thank you so much.
For for joining us today.
And thank you everyone fortuning in.
We will see you next time.
If you or anyone that you knowis struggling with any of
the topics that we discussed intoday's episode, make sure
to check out our show notesfor support and resources.
(53:07):
You can get help.
Thanks again for joining uson today's episode of
The Real Family Eats.
If you're a parent readyto share your real life
parenting story, make sure toreach out to us and our website
found in the show notes.
And that goes for today's recipesocial media's support
and resources.
All of that can be foundin our show notes,
(53:29):
so make sure to check them outand make sure to follow, like,
share, subscribe,and stay up to date
on all things the real family.
I hope you'll join us next timefor more food for thought
and thoughtful food!Enjoy your eats!
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