January 2, 2025 • 40 mins
This episode discusses the journey of Renee Lynn Frojo, exploring her evolution from aspiring marine biologist to accomplished writer and storyteller.
We discuss the power of storytelling, the importance of connection, and insights from her exotic in-person retreats centered on personal and professional growth.
• Exploring the journey into writing and early inspirations
• Discussing the disillusionment with politics and Washington, D.C.
• The impact of travel on creativity and adaptability
• Importance of community in personal and professional spaces
• Overview of retreats and the transformative experiences they offer
• Emphasizing the value of storytelling and finding your unique voice
Renee's LinkedIn Profile:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/renee-lynn-frojo/
Renee's website:
https://www.reneelynnfrojo.com/
David's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-young-mba-indy/
David's Website: https://davidjyoung.me/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to the Real you Podcast.
I'm your host, david Young, andthis is episode number 22.
This podcast discusses tappinginto your full potential and
finding ways to be the truestversion of yourself.
Today, I'm joined by Renee LynnFrohjo, a writer, storyteller,
relatively new cat mom and,along with being a real mom and
also a recent retreat host.
We will discuss her journey,why she loves writing, content
creation and what she's learnedalong the way.
(00:22):
So, renee which I'll explain ina second thanks for coming back
and doing this again and comingon the show.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Thanks for having me again.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
So we recorded this the first time on September 12th
I believe, and it was a greatepisode and I was very much
looking forward to getting itout about a month or so ago.
And then I learned as I startedto produce it that it had a
terrible echo.
And you helped me, you gave mea referral and he tried to fix
it and we did a bunch of work onit and we listened to it and my
wife listened to it and we alljust kind of decided that it
(00:52):
just wasn't going to work.
So here we are on December 20thyou know nothing going on as we
wrap up the year and five daysfrom Christmas.
Well, we're going to cram thisepisode in.
So thanks for carving out timeagain.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
You know, the opportunity to chat with you is
one I will always take.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Well, I appreciate that, thank you.
So we'll kind of start where wedid the first time, which is
obviously you're a writer andthat's kind of the bulk of your
business and what you've donefor a long time.
So how did you get into writing?
Did you write as a kid, did you?
Speaker 2 (01:29):
pick it up later, like kind of talk about your
writing background and kind ofwhere that came from.
Yeah, I was always writing.
As a kid I was always writingin journals and notebooks and I
wanted to be a marine biologist.
When I was a kid that's what Iwanted to do.
I was like no-transcript wasthe right brain stuff.
(02:13):
The creative writing you know,literature, reading,
comprehension and all that.
So I leaned into that and itwas something that to an extent,
happened to me.
I went to school forinternational relations after
deciding I wasn't going to be amarine biologist.
I just you know, maybe I didn'thave the brain for it.
I wanted to live and workinternationally.
(02:35):
But again in school, a coupleof professors identified me as a
good writer.
They said I should take ajournalism class as a way to
potentially work abroad andtravel internationally and do
that without having to take thestate exam.
And I did that and I started mycareer in journalism.
And ever since I declared I wasgoing to be a writer, everyone
has given me a notebook forChristmas and or my birthday.
(02:58):
And I'm a terrible journaler.
I got so many.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
You're set up for future success Once you start
journaling.
You don't have to buy any.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
I think it's good that you listen, because I've
had people on the show, andmyself included, that have been
told at a relatively young agelike hey, you're talented in
this, or you're skilled in this,or I think you have a future in
this, and we've all justignored it.
We just feel like yeah, whatever, and just keep your head down
going on like this other path,and then, like 20 years later,
(03:29):
you're like you know thatteacher or that counselor or
like my mom or whoever said thatto me, like they were actually
spot on.
So good for you for actuallytapping into that.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
In this case it worked out, yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
So I think I don't know if we talked about it last
time.
So how long did you spend inCancun, like how long did you?
You were born there and thenyou lived there for how long?
Speaker 2 (03:44):
I lived there until I was eight.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
Okay, my mom remarried.
Where'd you go from there?
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Alabama.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Auburn, Alabama.
So we moved from south of theborder to the south and I was
there through high school.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Okay, and then you went to college on the East
Coast, right.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
College in Boston, first job in Washington DC,
backpacked around the world fora year with my ex-husband and
landed in California, which iswhere I've been ever since.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
Yeah, so I know we talked about last time.
Talk about a little bit.
You spent time on Capitol Hilland you told a really
interesting story about I don'tremember was it Pharma or one of
the senators, and kind of thebehind the scenes.
Talk about that.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
Capitol Hill.
Yeah, yeah, I remember thefeeling of getting my press
badge.
I was so proud of myself.
I was like 21 years old and Ihad this press badge that made
me feel and look so important.
You know, gave me access tosome of the most important
decision makers in the countryand I was really like bright
(04:48):
eyed and bushy tailed andexcited to learn all about the
inner workings of, you know,congress and our government, how
decisions are made, laws are,you know, passed, and it only
took a few, a few moments ofsitting in those meetings on
Capitol Hill to realize howdysfunctional the whole system
(05:09):
actually is and the people incharge making the decisions.
For the most part, there'sdefinitely some altruistic
servants of the people that aredoing that job because it's what
they're meant to do, but a lotof people are just doing it
because they're power hungry andinterested and self interested
and you know, like, like beingin the decision making do.
But a lot of people are justdoing it because they're power
hungry and interested andself-interested and you know,
like being in thedecision-making seat, but they
(05:29):
didn't know anything that theywere talking about.
It was their aides that werewhispering things into their
ears that were, you know,informing them on what they
should be doing, because that'swhat their constituents want.
And I was like, and that is howdecisions are made, you know,
and that's how our arguments arewon.
And so it became pretty jadedpretty quickly.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
Pretty quickly, yeah, yeah.
So it reminds me that we shouldhave been asking all these
times like who are your aides?
What are your?
Who are you going to hire?
Who's going?
To be the young person that'sgoing to do all your research.
What are their, what are theirpolitics and influences?
Cause that's actually that's abetter question.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Exactly, I don't know .
It's, it's a world, it's aninteresting world, but and
sometimes I miss it but for themost part it's just, you know,
full of bs, really like anyworld that you enter into and uh
, it's, yeah, it's hard to findit's always different right once
you get once you get behind thescenes of almost anything yeah,
you see, like the innerworkings, it's almost never like
(06:23):
exactly what you thought andit's supposed to be really good.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
A lot of times it isn't, and even some things are
supposed to be really bad.
You're like, ah, it's not asbad, but that's interesting.
How long were you there?
How long did you do that?
Speaker 2 (06:34):
How long did I do that?
Three years, not very long.
I met my ex-husband when I waspretty young to have this abroad
experience and adventure, andso when we met each other, we
decided that we were going toquit our jobs and do it.
There's no better time to do itbefore we got serious before we
really thought about settingdown roots anywhere,
establishing a family.
(06:54):
We quit our jobs and traveledfor a year.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
Yeah, where all did you guys go?
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Australia, southeast Asia, india, which is where he's
originally from, has familySouth America, a quick, brief
stint in Europe, and then weended in Mexico where we got
married.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
Full circle.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
Full circle.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
That's amazing, and you guys hit all those places in
a year.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Yeah, it was blitz.
It made me realize how much youcan live on.
It made me realize how much youcan live on like that.
You can just live with solittle, I mean like with a
backpack, you know, and fiveoutfits and a toothbrush and a
laptop, and you can live a full,wonderful life free of all this
stuff.
So, yeah, we were totally freeto bounce around from place to
(07:40):
place.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
That's cool.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Sometimes I would put up everywhere I went I did need
to feel like it was a littlebit like a home and my home and
my place.
So even if we were in a hostelfor one night and I was in a
bunk bed you know, in a roomfull of bunk beds with like 20
other 20 something year olds Iwould put up every night my
little photos and my blanket andmy scarf that I used as a
blanket and then it made it,made it mine felt like home I
(08:06):
could not have done that.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
So even the traveling at that age, I don't think I
would have done it I don't knowcreature comfort yeah, just I
don't know.
I was an only child, we didn'ttravel a lot.
You know we take like a trip toflorida or something, go see my
aunt in pennsylvania.
But like the thought of likeinternational travel would have
been, I think, too overwhelming,and especially to do it not
(08:29):
necessarily by myself.
I know you're with somebody,but I don't know, I think I
would have been too scared.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Yeah, yeah, I think one thing about having moved so
young from one country to a newcountry and I lost my dad when I
was young and my brother I justwent through a lot of change in
my early years and I think it'smade me a person who thrives on
change and newness and novelty.
And it's a great thing becauseI'm very adaptable, but it can
also, especially in business, bea very hard thing because I'm
(08:56):
always looking for that noveltyand needing change, and so it's
been really hard, and thebiggest thing I've had to work
on as a business ownerparticular, is like seeing
things through and just beinghappy with what I've built and
and writing it out for a littlebit longer and not constantly
changing it up.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
So, yeah, Well, you're not alone there, you know
.
I think there's a lot of us,especially once you're doing it
for a while, you find somethingthat works and then you want to
change it instead of just,instead of just keep doing it
out.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
Yeah, it's like is it going?
Well, don't mess with it.
I don't know, I'm kind of bored.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
I can do more.
I could do a little bit more ofthis.
Yeah, I think that's a littlebit human nature and then, like
you said, if that's kind of whatyou got adjusted to, you know
pretty early on, then it's kindof in your DNA.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
So, it's a really transformative year in all the
ways, but the main one thatcomes to mind, I guess, is I got
, we got.
(09:59):
We didn't get officiallymarried.
The plan was to get married atthe end of that year in mexico
and cancun, bring all our familyand friends together that we
hadn't seen in a year and kindof celebrate, you know, the
culmination of thistransformative year and starting
this new chapter.
Um, but because we were inIndia and all the Indian family
wasn't going to be able to makeit to Mexico, they were like
let's have a little pre-wedding,a little ceremony here, which
(10:20):
was 200 people because it'sIndia, so it was bigger than her
actual wedding and I mean itwas memorable for so many
reasons.
But one of the things is I was,for the first time, really, in a
situation where I was theminority and felt that, but it
was different.
I was being celebrated, but Iwas like I had never felt so out
(10:45):
of my element.
You know, the only white womanin this room of 200 people and,
you know, dressed in clothingthat I'd never worn, with my
hair done in a way that hadnever been done, listening to a
language I didn't understand,and celebrating, you know, a
unity like celebrating, likethis new event, and it is really
(11:08):
the first time I truly feltlike an outsider, but not in a
way that felt lonely.
It felt it was just.
I was just like this is what Imust feel like.
This is what I must feel liketo be the only person in the
room, you know, who looks likeme or understands me or, you
know, has been through some ofthe things I've been through.
Yeah, um, so I just took thatin, you know.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
Yeah, I mean.
I mean mean, especially at sucha young age, I'm sure that was
great perspectives for later onin your life to have that, to
have that feeling and kind ofknow what that's like, because I
don't think many of us do.
Yeah, and that's pretty cool.
When did your family, like yourfamily, find out that that
happened?
You tell them when youofficially got married, or did
you tell them like five yearslater?
Speaker 2 (11:49):
yeah, I told them when it was happening that would
have been fun if you just keptit from him.
I just kept it a secret.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
Like three years later.
Here are the photos.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
No, no family secrets from my end.
Lots of family secrets on myother family.
Everyone else in my familythinks that keeping secrets is a
good idea until they realizeit's not.
But I've never been that person.
Opposite problem Too much of anopen book.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
Got it.
So you got back, you gotmarried and then did you guys
settle down after that in SanFrancisco or did you go there
later?
Speaker 2 (12:17):
Yeah, no, we settled down in San Francisco.
We were on a boat Two daysbefore the wedding.
Everyone was asking where arewe going to go after this?
You can go back to DC, or youcan go to Boston, where his
parents were.
You can go to Alabama.
Hell, no, where are you goingto go?
We don't know.
And a friend said well, I havea place, I have an extra bedroom
in my house.
You can come stay, stay a while, look for a job.
(12:38):
And I told kanishka, myex-husband, I was like I always
wanted to go to california.
Let's extend this adventure forone year, let's go california
and then, you know, probably endup back on the east coast and
then 14 years later never leftnever left now frisco is a good
time.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
I've only been out there once.
My wife's aunt lived out there.
We went out to visit it's 2004,I believe and we spent a week,
a couple of days in Napa.
She took us downtown, did liketouristy downtown type stuff and
then I just kind of hung out.
Yeah, cool city.
I'd love to go back and I knowI've got some connections, uh,
(13:15):
through linkedin that are outthere, so I'll, I'll eventually
get out there, hopefully soonerrather than later.
But it's a.
It's a cool part of the country, an interesting weather city,
like you never really know, likewhat the weather's going to do
out there, more so, I think,than other places, because you
think of it like because it'scalifornia, so it's like nicer,
but a lot of the time in sanfrancisco it's not, like it's
colder and rains.
Yeah that was, that was a big,that was a big eye opener
(13:36):
because we were there in March.
I think we hit like everyweather, every possible weather
thing in March.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Yeah, you know the there's.
I love San Francisco.
Sweatshirts are bestsellers.
It's like a booming business,because everybody comes here
thinking it's going to be sunnyCalifornia and then they end up
freezing their beds off andbuying these.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
I love San Francisco sweaters and Chinatown it's like
the only thing they sell.
They know that's the perfect.
Uh, really knowing youraudience and their pain points.
Truly.
Uh, yeah, I can totally feelthat Cause I don't know.
It's just, I mean, I'm from theMidwest, so I'd never been.
I mean, I've been to Vegas ahandful of times, um, I've been
to Anaheim it's pretty warm thatweek but I've never been to
Northern California.
So, yeah, it was definitelycooler than I was ready for.
(14:21):
I remember going to Alcatrazand touring Alcatraz and it was
freezing.
Uh, it was so cold it's cold,yeah, uh, so what.
So what did you do?
What did you do for work?
Like once you?
Obviously you were there longerthan you were initially
planning, but how did you delveback into the working world?
Speaker 2 (14:38):
Well, I was freelancing throughout that trip
.
So that was my first step atreally working for myself
freelancing, pitching, trying toget published, trying to build
my brand reputation.
And so I kind of continued thatand I started freelancing from
some local newspapers.
And then I did what I always doand I networked my butt off and
I reached out to all myconnections.
I found a professor who had abunch of people he knew in San
(14:59):
Francisco and publishing one ofmy journalism professors and
that guy got me an interview atthe San Francisco business times
, you know, after a coffee date,and he was in a research
position.
So I was there and doing thisresearch.
I got the job as researcherbecause of this recommendation,
because of my networking andlight here, and I was there for
a few months and the reporterwho covered hospitality, retail,
(15:20):
nonprofits, philanthropy,restaurants, like all the fun
beats, decided that she wasleaving, she needed to go on
maternity leave and then she wasgoing to go work in-house for
Clorox, and so they were lookingto fill this reporter's seat
and I was like I'm a reporter, Iwrote about, you know,
pharmaceuticals and stuff in DC,and they're like you're not a
reporter, oh, I am a reporter.
(15:41):
They're like all right, whydon't you write a story?
Like write a story and do someresearch, write a story, we'll
see.
And I killed it and they hiredme.
So I worked there for two yearsas a journalist doing all the
fun beats interviewing startups,and that's where I really got
into small businesses andstartups and telling their
stories and my entrepreneurialfreelancer bug never went away,
(16:07):
but I really needed those yearsof experience to be able to do
anything with it.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
Nice, did you just go to all the nice restaurants and
do write-ups?
Speaker 2 (16:14):
Yeah, this is the second time in my career where I
got to feel all important.
I got invited to, you know, allthe openings and parties and
everyone always wanted to talkto me when I, you know, asked
for a request for interview.
So, yes, yeah, it was really.
It was really fun.
It was not sustainable as Istarted having kids, um, but it
(16:34):
was great for, you know, a youngperson, 20s in a new city.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
That sounds good, the Capitol Hill gig?
Not so much that, that gig.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
Way more fun.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Yeah, that sounds pretty good.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
You know.
But like anything, you do itlong enough and it starts to
lose its luster you, you know,and I got tired of writing about
food.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
You know, not never really the startups and small
businesses.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
But I did get tired of writing about food.
Um, I can see that.
So what did you then?
So then what?
What did you do next?
I went to culinary school.
I'm tired of writing about food.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
I got tired of writing about food.
I'm gonna make my own yeah,exactly.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
Uh, yeah, I went to culinary school.
I wanted to get off my computerand stop at the deadline, so
that was the other unglamorous,that's the other very
unglamorous part about being ajournalist You're constantly on
deadline, you're constantlyunder the gun, you know you mess
up, you're like sued for libel,like it's low pay, high stress
job, lots of influence, lots ofunglamorous stuff.
(17:30):
Yeah, so I wanted to.
I didn't know what I was goingto do, but I went to culinary
school and then I got a job at arestaurant and I was like not
this.
And I got hired at a startupand there I was number five at
Sun Basket, which became, youknow this like huge startup
doing their you know,essentially my first content
marketing job.
So I turned my journalismskills into, you know, building
(17:52):
a story and a narrative and amedia plan for a budding startup
, and that's sort of where thatpart of my career kicked off.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
I assume that you kept networking, because you
talked about that last time, howmuch in-person networking has
really helped you, and I'massuming you kind of kept doing
that at that time.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
Yeah, I've continued doing that.
That is, I think, the numberone driver of all my business is
my in-person networking.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
Are you a natural or are you an extrovert?
Like does that kind of stuff?
Do you enjoy that?
Speaker 2 (18:23):
I do, but it's also something I'm always working on,
like.
I'm continuously trying tolearn how to, and study how to
be a better communicator, how tobe better with people, how to
be a better listener, you know,um, which is, I think,
ultimately what makes a goodnetworker right.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
But just also, uh, person who's like really fully
connected and capable ofbuilding good relationships that
go beyond work.
Um, so it's yeah, I'd say I amnaturally extroverted, but it's
like everyone else, I think it'ssomething that you need to, or
like anything else, it'ssomething that you need to
continuously work on.
You know no one's.
(19:00):
It's like a really a naturalcommunicator.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
Yeah, we're excellent networker yeah, I could do it
now I I couldn't have done, Iwouldn't have, I would have been
terrible at it.
You know, in my mid to late 20s, probably even my early 30s,
mid 30s, I still I would havefought it too much and would
have been too draining, but Icould do it now, but it
definitely is.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
You mean in person, in person, yeah, yeah yeah yeah,
I can see it being harder forintroverts and and and for my at
least.
I try to spot the introverts inthe room and talk to them.
I go to them, they're easy tospot.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
They're standing in the corner not talking to anyone
, so that's easy.
I'm looking at their watch.
When do I get to?
Speaker 2 (19:37):
leave.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
What time?
It's been two hours, right?
No, it's been 10 minutes.
Okay, I guess I'll stay.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
You know.
So that is one of the thingsI'm actually working on in a big
way next year because I startedhosting these retreats, these
in-person retreats and the lastone we hosted.
It's a small, intimate groupbut we got a mix of introverts
and extroverts and admittedly, Ihave an easier time with
extroverts because you know weget each other, we like talk
over each other.
And then I realized I had aharder time with the introverts
(20:06):
and my co-host, emma, was sogood, she was so good at like
drawing them out and bringingthem into the fold in the
conversation in such a naturalway, and I and I told her that
is my biggest work for this nextyear is figuring is like really
understanding that personalitytype and different personality
types and neurodivergentpersonality types and really
(20:27):
understanding how to, how toreally communicate with them and
how to listen and how to beempathetic and how to bring them
in and how to draw them out and, um, I think, if I want to
continue being a facilitatorwhich I do it's a really
important skill that I need tolearn that people yeah, it's a
good point.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
I don't think a lot of people would take enough time
to think about it like at thatdepth, and so it's good for you
for doing it.
I learned so.
I'm a lifelong introvert and Iwas really shy as a kid, really
shy, and I always thought thosetwo went together.
And then a guest on this show,amanda Kwok, back in the summer
kind of explained it in a muchbetter way for me.
But they're two totallyseparate things so that you can
(21:04):
be both away from me.
But they're two totallyseparate things so that you can
be both but you don't have to be.
But I just always thought, well, like I'm shy and an introvert,
and she was like you could havebeen not shy and introvert, you
could have been an introvert,not shy, so you can flip them.
But so it's interesting becauseit's all about energy.
It's all it's like introversionand extroversion is nothing
more than just where you getyour energy.
So typically introverts in acrowd and a group right, your
(21:25):
energy is drained much morequickly and you need to go be by
yourself, to kind of decompress, whereas extroverts in a crowd
or group of people are energizedand it's sort of a reverse.
So what I have found, like as anintrovert, like in a group
setting like that, how manypeople did you have in Costa
Rica?
10.
And like, were there times whenall 10 of you would have been
in the same room or areaConstantly?
(21:53):
Yeah, and like, were theretimes when all 10 of you would
have been in the same room orarea, kind of talking, yeah,
okay, so so like for me it woulddepend on how well I knew those
people.
So like if, if I was there andonly knew you and I knew no one
else, you would see a completelydifferent version of me, versus
if, like, six of them I knewpretty well and four that I
didn't, you would then see adifferent version if I knew all
10 like really well.
So it's like it really varieson your intimacy and your
comfort level with the people,and the more that you are
(22:15):
comfortable, the more yourselfyou'll be the different version
you'll see.
And then it's exactly theopposite.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
And what's the difference between that and
being shy?
Speaker 1 (22:25):
So shy is more just not wanting to speak up.
So you could be extroverted andget energy from a crowd but
then be shy and not want to talkor not, or your voice would not
come out strong or likewhatever.
So it's, it has nothing to dowith energy, it's more just
about like your willingness tolike put yourself out there and
like speak.
(22:45):
You know confidence, or a littlebit probably, yeah um, so, but
like I always sat in the back ofclassrooms, I never wanted to
be called on like if I could goan entire semester and not have
to speak in school, like when Iwas, you know, probably fifth
grade on, you know, like thatwould have been great.
Please don't call me so.
(23:05):
So, yeah, so I, we didn't talkabout the retreats last time, I
didn't know much about them, andnow I know that you've done one
, you're getting ready to doanother one, or you're planning
another one in may, what?
So I don't really know anythingabout retreats.
Like, so you have this group of10, you're in costa rica, so
what do you do?
I have no idea.
Like, what, like, what do youdo?
What does it?
Speaker 2 (23:25):
Well, that is one of the things we were sorting
through last year.
What is a good balance?
For what do you do?
We promise coming out of thisretreat with this set of skills
or understanding and focus onyour business, but three days is
simultaneously a long time andnot long enough is
(23:45):
simultaneously a long time andnot long enough.
So we spend part of our daysdoing workshops and hot seats
where, basically, you get timededicated time to talk openly
about all the challenges in yourbusiness and get input and
ideas from the group, which wasprobably the most powerful for
everybody.
And then there were otherstructured workshops for things
like building systems orfiguring out which marketing
(24:07):
approach or tactics and toolsand processes for strategic
growth.
So I had a retreat.
Well, it depends on the retreat, but this was both a business.
It's a retreat to really beable to focus and spend time on
your business.
I think one of the things Irealized is like you really need
space and time and likededicated time to think
(24:32):
strategically because you'reconstantly in it If you're, if
you're, you know, in a business,working in a business, and we
don't give ourselves that time,and so this is dedicated time
where we're like focusing onthese things.
We're happy to talk about yourbusiness for three days, which
you know you can't do with likeyour spouse or your friends or
like anyone that's not in abusiness group with you, because
they're tired of hearing aboutit, you know, and they're not in
the same situation, they don'tunderstand.
So this is like a group ofother people that completely
(24:54):
understand what you're goingthrough, because they're in it
too, with some guidance, rightand facilitation, and so, yeah,
we would spend, you know, a goodportion of the day doing that
and then the rest of it doingother activities, because we're
in Costa Rica, making it reallya retreat.
So we did yoga, we did a surflesson, we did dinners out, you
(25:17):
know, we did walks on the beach,and all those opportunities
were just more opportunities forconversations, to keep working
on stuff.
Like I had this insight duringthat workshop about something
that I've been doing that Ishould start doing differently
for the outcome that I want, andI want to talk through it with
you a little bit more, becauseyou seem to get it, you know, or
you seem to have been throughit already, and so it just
facilitates all thoseconversations that are like even
(25:38):
more intimate and that you'renot going to have a harder time
getting on a Slack group or, youknow, in the 15 minutes between
talks at a conference.
So that's it.
And usually I come out ofconferences two-day conferences,
three-day conferences, one-dayconferences like just buzzing
with ideas and connections andnew information and things I
(26:00):
want to apply and do, and Iusually feel very overwhelmed.
But I didn't feel that wayafter this last retreat, and
that was one of the things weheard from everybody else too,
is that I actually felt calm, Ifelt clarity and I felt peace
and like I had a direction thatI know I need to go in.
And then we checked in witheverybody like four weeks later
Okay, how's everyone doing?
What's that?
(26:20):
You know, we ended with this isthe next step I'm going to take
to, you know, get to this goal.
How's everyone doing towardsthat stuff?
And they're like well, I did it, I took the first step and I'm
doing this.
Some people are like I'moverwhelmed again.
Okay, all right, let's talkabout what it is.
I'm back at where I was atbefore, which is like I can't
focus on anything.
What do I focus on?
I'm so good at so many things.
(26:40):
It's like all right, let's talkabout this.
So you know it's not.
It's not a one and done, it's a.
It's a continuous process.
But, as I was telling youearlier, it's like I have an
opportunity now to work with oneof these people on a community
and now I'm a strategic partner.
That only happened because ofthe conversations we were having
in those rooms, and by thoserooms I mean on the patio,
because everything was outsidespace, space, expansive space to
(27:02):
think.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
No, it sounds good.
So how did you decide on the 10people and were you intentional
about their skill sets andbackgrounds in terms of
obviously you'd want as manykind of different perspectives
and like uniqueness.
So you'd want, I would assume,like a mix of experienced,
(27:26):
established business people,maybe some newer people,
different industries.
How did you come up with that?
You said Emma was your co-host.
I assume you guys kind ofplanned that together.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
We did, yeah, and it was really an extension of both
of our networks.
The people who ended up comingyes, we were intentional who we
chose.
We wanted businesses prettymuch around the same level, but
there were some that were two,three years into business and
some that were seven years intobusiness, and it didn't mean
that the people who are sevenyears into their business didn't
learn, didn't have take awaysome things from the people who
(27:55):
are two years into theirbusiness.
It was mostly content marketersand writers for that one.
So we were actually specificthat we wanted all these to be
similar businesses, and therewere a couple of people who
weren't, though, and it wasbecause of that that we
recognized the value of havingdifferent types of service-based
business owners.
Like, we're all kind of doingthe same business model to an
extent, but our businesses arecompletely different.
(28:17):
You know, they're not just inwriting or content marketing,
and that was really reallyhelpful for the group.
So that is what we're going tofocus on this year in terms of
selecting the crew justdifferent types of business
owners, who are allservice-based business owners
but serving different clients,different industries.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
Nice, yeah, so you're doing Mexico kind of middle of
May and I think you said you'redoing 12 people this time.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
We're doing 12 people this time, yeah 12, including
you and Emma, or in addition 12,including me and Emma yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
So 10 more, and I assume it'll be like a similar
process of trying to figure outthe right mix.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
Similar process of trying to figure out the right
mix A different set ofactivities, because we're going
to be in an urban setting asopposed to by a beach, but all
towards a similar end.
And last year's focus wasbuilding an intentional business
, one that you really like,working in making sure that all
of your marketing and operationsand clientele are aligned with
(29:13):
what you actually want.
You know so many people end upbuilding these accidental
businesses and being like Idon't I don't.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
What am I doing?
I don't want to do this.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
I'm just building another job for myself, and so
that was the real focus, andthis year, the focus is more on
the strategic growth and thesteps that you need to really
hone in focus, accelerate, takeit to the next, take it to the
next.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
Game changer, if you will.
You know how much I love.
You know my cliches.
So, yeah, no, it sounds.
It sounds amazing and I'm goingto get to get to a retreat.
I think I've talked to enoughpeople that have done them.
They all speak really highly ofthem, so I'm like, all right,
I'm missing out, I gotta get.
I gotta get to one of these.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
Yeah, someday.
I think it's also just thecrowd that it attracts.
And yeah, the reason.
You're all there.
Know, the facilitators make abig difference too.
Yeah, the other.
Yeah, I couldn't find one Iwanted to participate in, so I
built my own built your own.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
No, that's uh that, do you guys?
There's a guy on linkedin thisis not off topic, but it's a
good story his name is billyoppenheimer.
Do you know?
Do you know that name?
I'm familiar so he does.
I think he works, or he used towork with Ryan Holiday as like
one of his, like writing people,anyway.
So he does this series onLinkedIn you should follow him
(30:29):
if you're not and he writesthese really in-depth stories.
A lot of times it's about likecelebrities but like their
backstory, and so he just hadone and the reason you just
talked about like building yourown.
So he wrote about Matt Damon.
So Matt Damon auditioned fordead poet society, didn't get it
, then went back home, worked ina movie theater.
(30:51):
The movie theater showed onemovie that summer dead poet
society so he had to work at thetheater taking tickets for the
movie that he wanted to be inand seeing all these people
coming out crying and like itwas so moving right yeah so a
couple years later he uh, getsthe script for primal fear,
reads the script, realizes thatthe role that ed norton ended up
(31:12):
getting was going to be acareer changing role for whoever
got it like hired a dialectcoach that he couldn't afford to
interview.
There were 2 000 people to tryto get that role.
Ed norton got it who was anunknown actor?
That was his first ever role inHollywood.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
And so Damon's thinking like you know, I've
been at this for a while he hadhad some really just like small
bit parts.
This guy comes in, who no oneknew gets this role.
I think he won a couple awardsfor that and it just launched,
you know, Ed Norton's career andthat's why that he and Ben
Affleck wrote Good Will Hunting,because they were like this
(31:48):
normal, the normal setup isn'tworking for us.
We want to be actors.
We'll write our own script andthen we'll be actors in our own
movie.
So like you know, so anyway,it's really, it's really
interesting.
He does stuff like that likeall the time how does he do his
research?
Yeah, I don't know, because I Iknew a little.
I've heard damon on podcast.
I thought I knew some of hisbackstory, but I had never heard
(32:08):
, like I had never heard that.
Yeah, it was really he don't.
He did one recently with uhquentin tarantino, whose first
movie was just like, apparentlyjust awful, and everyone hated
it yeah he worked on it.
He worked on it for like threeyears and everyone was like
that's terrible and so like he,like he probably should have
quit and then, obviously, mostpeople would have.
Yeah yeah, yeah, exactlyanyways.
(32:30):
But but that's cool that you,like you had, you had kind of
done it, hadn't seen success youwere like I'm gonna rewrite it
and I'm gonna do it, I'm gonnado it myself.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
That was your own version of uh, of goodwill
hunting yes, one day I will beon a podcast talking about Good
Will Hunting retreat business.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
How do you know Emma?
How did you meet her?
How did you guys form thispartnership?
Speaker 2 (32:53):
I love this story.
Emma is a content writer who hasa newsletter where she writes
sporadically.
I think she was consistent withit, goodness, at first.
Sorry, kat, she was consistentwith it when she first started,
but she's been in business for10 years as a content writer and
so you know consistent businessand so her newsletter kind of
(33:13):
was something that she just keptgoing for herself.
At one point She'd send it likeonce a quarter, sometimes once
every other month, and I got onit somehow.
I actually don't remember how Ifound her.
I got on it and I just feltlike I was developing this
relationship with her becauseshe was telling all these
stories about herself.
She was very open andvulnerable about how she was
feeling.
She was a new mother andstruggling with, like, having
(33:35):
this online business and feelingso isolated and didn't know
what to do.
From the pandemic she started alittle newspaper in her
neighborhood, like all thisstuff.
One day she wrote in hernewsletter I'm really done
working on my own.
I hosted this retreat before thepandemic, called Domina, for
content writers.
15 people came.
It was amazing.
It was transformative.
I want to do it again, but mybusiness partner no longer wants
(33:56):
to do it.
It's been some time.
We were going to do it the nextyear, but then pandemic had a
kid, so it's been four years.
Anyone out there interested?
And I replied to that email andI was like, hey, you don't know
me, but I've always wanted todo something like this.
You know, I feel like I knowyou, I really like you, I feel
like we're very aligned.
I want to talk and see if Icould be your partner, and
that's how it started.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
Love it, putting your , putting yourself out there and
like signing, like raising yourhand, that's it, that's it I
mean I really it's.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
I think it's both.
It's both right.
It's like really puttingyourself out there and giving
other people the opportunity toget to know you on this deeper
level, on this intimate level.
It's my whole shtick.
You know storytelling andtelling personal stories on your
public platforms, and and thenit's on my end yeah, and then
it's actually raising your handand saying you want to do this,
I want to do this.
I mean that's.
You know I reach out to peopleall the time for these kind of
(34:46):
partnerships.
I saw you talked about thisthing.
Do you want to host a jointwebinar together?
I saw that you're looking for,you know someone who knows
content systems?
I know content systems.
Speaker 1 (34:56):
Can I come and be part of your workshop and that's
created a ton of opportunityfor me, but you have to ask, you
do, you have to ask, and itcompounds right, because the
more you do it, then you getconfidence, and then you start
to get yeses and then you startto have success and so then
you're like like this reallyworks and then you never know,
like where that's going to go,because you don't know who they
know and like what they're doing.
(35:16):
So it's.
I don't think most people woulddo it like you would just be
like, oh, like she'll, probablyyou'll talk yourself out of it,
right, like she doesn't know me,I'm sure she has other people
to come up with all theseexcuses and you don't even give
yourself a chance.
So I love that you just werelike yeah, like 100%.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
Let's do it.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
No, that's amazing.
Now you had mentioned you mightdo a couple more local ones.
Are those just like smaller,like one dayers, or?
Speaker 2 (35:40):
Yeah, we you know we're gonna do this other big
mexico city one, but we werethinking about how we can make
this a little bit moreaccessible and a little bit of a
lower lift.
There's more consistency inthis.
New narratives.
You know, little sub business,little side hustle, retreat
business, and so that would belike a day in the bay area she's
, she's in the bay area as well.
Or a day in denver, you know,at a ranch or something like
(36:02):
that.
Um, I don't know if there areranches in Denver.
Are there ranches in Denver?
Maybe?
Speaker 1 (36:05):
I don't know there are now.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
Okay, colorado, but somewhere that's like easy for
people to fly into.
You know, isn't this bigexpense and commitment, you know
, more conference-y but stillintimate?
Not, you know, probably likehalf those are like 30 people,
for instance.
Probably like half, those arelike 30 people, for instance.
And so it's not the same as theretreat, but, um, you know,
(36:29):
it's this idea of getting peopletogether in person and really
getting dedicated time to workon your business?
Speaker 1 (36:31):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, I think there's a lot to that.
Like you said, the in-personenergy is different, and
especially on like two or threedays where you're spending a lot
of time together or you canspend a lot of time together, so
you can have different,different levels of conversation
that can spawn maybe not evenjust business, but you get
personal when you get background, how it all kind of mixes
together and then you know, soyou, you just get a different,
it's just different.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
Yeah, that's it, and I think the big thing that we're
trying to do differently withnew narratives is that, like we
really want to build a communitywhere it's like it's okay to
bring your whole self into it,because business is deeply
personal.
When you're working foryourself, you know you really
can't untangle the two things,so you shouldn't have to, and
this is like a safe space whereyou can like bring all of it.
Speaker 1 (37:13):
Yeah, for sure.
Um, well, there's a lot morethat we could get into, but I
feel like this is a good placeto stop.
Thanks for coming back, thanksfor sharing and actually worked
out, because we got to talkabout the retreats this time, we
didn't talk about that lasttime, so that's been good.
I love your work.
I love your content.
I'm so happy that you came back.
Any final thoughts, anythingyou want to leave?
And then how can people reachout if they want to get more
(37:36):
information?
Speaker 2 (37:38):
Well, I just sent out my last newsletter of the year
and it's all around this idea ofspeaking out, using your voice,
finding your voice, you know,articulating your value, asking
for what you want.
It's this woman's story,chantal, who is now a
bestselling author, a careercoach, a keynote speaker who
gets five figure, you know, 60minute speaking deals all the
(37:59):
time and she works full time asan executive salesperson and
she's got an incrediblebackstory and so I wanted to
tell it and really she inspiredme to really focus next year on
continuing to speak out,continuing to articulate your
value like really trying to findyour voice.
(38:20):
A lot of it, just you know,comes back to figure finding
yourself, you know, finding thatconfidence, finding that
confidence to speak up.
And yeah, that's what I'm goinginto the new year with and I
would encourage other people totoo.
So, and if you need helpfinding your voice, I can help
(38:40):
you.
Help finding your voice, I canhelp you.
Um, yeah, um, thank you so muchfor having me on.
What about you?
Any, any, any?
Speaker 1 (38:54):
wrap up the year.
Words of wisdom.
David, I feel like you're sothoughtful, Um, you know, I
would say storytelling, which Iknow is a big one for you.
Really telling your story,that's what people grasp onto
especially in this era of plugand play content and AI and all
that type of stuff, they can'ttell your story because they
don't know it.
So if you're not sure what towrite about, tell a piece of
your story and people that willgravitate towards that they're
your people and the people thatwon't, they weren't your people
(39:16):
anyway.
So that's how you stand out andespecially with the way
LinkedIn's's kind of the way theplatform is moving and organic
reach being down, people are alittle bit worried about that.
Like a, you can't really doanything about it, but b your
unique story will always standout and so that's, that's what
you have to do.
So we can all google and gpt,you know, top five and top 10
(39:39):
list and productivity hacks andlike all that kind of stuff, if
we want, but we can't, we can'tlearn about you and what you
have to offer and yourpersonality and your background
and your experience, like allthat stuff is hard or not hard.
Like all of the, all of oursare different.
So you know, that's what youreally.
That's.
Your unique identifier is yourlived experience and then your
background.
So that's what you have to letpeople know.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
Yeah, that's what you have to let people know yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:03):
Awesome.
Well, appreciate the time,enjoy a holiday with your family
and friends, and we'll do itagain next year.
Speaker 2 (40:10):
David take care.
Speaker 1 (40:11):
Thanks.
Welcome to the Real you Podcast.
I'm your host, david Young, andthis is episode number 22.
This podcast discusses tappinginto your full potential and
finding ways to be the truestversion of yourself.
Today, I'm joined by Renee LynnFrohjo, a writer, storyteller,
relatively new cat mom and,along with being a real mom and
also a recent retreat host.
We will discuss her journey,why she loves writing, content
creation and what she's learnedalong the way.
(00:22):
So, renee which I'll explain ina second thanks for coming back
and doing this again and comingon the show.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Thanks for having me again.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
So we recorded this the first time on September 12th
I believe, and it was a greatepisode and I was very much
looking forward to getting itout about a month or so ago.
And then I learned as I startedto produce it that it had a
terrible echo.
And you helped me, you gave mea referral and he tried to fix
it and we did a bunch of work onit and we listened to it and my
wife listened to it and we alljust kind of decided that it
(00:52):
just wasn't going to work.
So here we are on December 20thyou know nothing going on as we
wrap up the year and five daysfrom Christmas.
Well, we're going to cram thisepisode in.
So thanks for carving out timeagain.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
You know, the opportunity to chat with you is
one I will always take.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Well, I appreciate that, thank you.
So we'll kind of start where wedid the first time, which is
obviously you're a writer andthat's kind of the bulk of your
business and what you've donefor a long time.
So how did you get into writing?
Did you write as a kid, did you?
Speaker 2 (01:29):
pick it up later, like kind of talk about your
writing background and kind ofwhere that came from.
Yeah, I was always writing.
As a kid I was always writingin journals and notebooks and I
wanted to be a marine biologist.
When I was a kid that's what Iwanted to do.
I was like no-transcript wasthe right brain stuff.
(02:13):
The creative writing you know,literature, reading,
comprehension and all that.
So I leaned into that and itwas something that to an extent,
happened to me.
I went to school forinternational relations after
deciding I wasn't going to be amarine biologist.
I just you know, maybe I didn'thave the brain for it.
I wanted to live and workinternationally.
(02:35):
But again in school, a coupleof professors identified me as a
good writer.
They said I should take ajournalism class as a way to
potentially work abroad andtravel internationally and do
that without having to take thestate exam.
And I did that and I started mycareer in journalism.
And ever since I declared I wasgoing to be a writer, everyone
has given me a notebook forChristmas and or my birthday.
(02:58):
And I'm a terrible journaler.
I got so many.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
You're set up for future success Once you start
journaling.
You don't have to buy any.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
I think it's good that you listen, because I've
had people on the show, andmyself included, that have been
told at a relatively young agelike hey, you're talented in
this, or you're skilled in this,or I think you have a future in
this, and we've all justignored it.
We just feel like yeah, whatever, and just keep your head down
going on like this other path,and then, like 20 years later,
(03:29):
you're like you know thatteacher or that counselor or
like my mom or whoever said thatto me, like they were actually
spot on.
So good for you for actuallytapping into that.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
In this case it worked out, yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
So I think I don't know if we talked about it last
time.
So how long did you spend inCancun, like how long did you?
You were born there and thenyou lived there for how long?
Speaker 2 (03:44):
I lived there until I was eight.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
Okay, my mom remarried.
Where'd you go from there?
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Alabama.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Auburn, Alabama.
So we moved from south of theborder to the south and I was
there through high school.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Okay, and then you went to college on the East
Coast, right.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
College in Boston, first job in Washington DC,
backpacked around the world fora year with my ex-husband and
landed in California, which iswhere I've been ever since.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
Yeah, so I know we talked about last time.
Talk about a little bit.
You spent time on Capitol Hilland you told a really
interesting story about I don'tremember was it Pharma or one of
the senators, and kind of thebehind the scenes.
Talk about that.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
Capitol Hill.
Yeah, yeah, I remember thefeeling of getting my press
badge.
I was so proud of myself.
I was like 21 years old and Ihad this press badge that made
me feel and look so important.
You know, gave me access tosome of the most important
decision makers in the countryand I was really like bright
(04:48):
eyed and bushy tailed andexcited to learn all about the
inner workings of, you know,congress and our government, how
decisions are made, laws are,you know, passed, and it only
took a few, a few moments ofsitting in those meetings on
Capitol Hill to realize howdysfunctional the whole system
(05:09):
actually is and the people incharge making the decisions.
For the most part, there'sdefinitely some altruistic
servants of the people that aredoing that job because it's what
they're meant to do, but a lotof people are just doing it
because they're power hungry andinterested and self interested
and you know, like, like beingin the decision making do.
But a lot of people are justdoing it because they're power
hungry and interested andself-interested and you know,
like being in thedecision-making seat, but they
(05:29):
didn't know anything that theywere talking about.
It was their aides that werewhispering things into their
ears that were, you know,informing them on what they
should be doing, because that'swhat their constituents want.
And I was like, and that is howdecisions are made, you know,
and that's how our arguments arewon.
And so it became pretty jadedpretty quickly.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
Pretty quickly, yeah, yeah.
So it reminds me that we shouldhave been asking all these
times like who are your aides?
What are your?
Who are you going to hire?
Who's going?
To be the young person that'sgoing to do all your research.
What are their, what are theirpolitics and influences?
Cause that's actually that's abetter question.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Exactly, I don't know .
It's, it's a world, it's aninteresting world, but and
sometimes I miss it but for themost part it's just, you know,
full of bs, really like anyworld that you enter into and uh
, it's, yeah, it's hard to findit's always different right once
you get once you get behind thescenes of almost anything yeah,
you see, like the innerworkings, it's almost never like
(06:23):
exactly what you thought andit's supposed to be really good.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
A lot of times it isn't, and even some things are
supposed to be really bad.
You're like, ah, it's not asbad, but that's interesting.
How long were you there?
How long did you do that?
Speaker 2 (06:34):
How long did I do that?
Three years, not very long.
I met my ex-husband when I waspretty young to have this abroad
experience and adventure, andso when we met each other, we
decided that we were going toquit our jobs and do it.
There's no better time to do itbefore we got serious before we
really thought about settingdown roots anywhere,
establishing a family.
(06:54):
We quit our jobs and traveledfor a year.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
Yeah, where all did you guys go?
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Australia, southeast Asia, india, which is where he's
originally from, has familySouth America, a quick, brief
stint in Europe, and then weended in Mexico where we got
married.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
Full circle.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
Full circle.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
That's amazing, and you guys hit all those places in
a year.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Yeah, it was blitz.
It made me realize how much youcan live on.
It made me realize how much youcan live on like that.
You can just live with solittle, I mean like with a
backpack, you know, and fiveoutfits and a toothbrush and a
laptop, and you can live a full,wonderful life free of all this
stuff.
So, yeah, we were totally freeto bounce around from place to
(07:40):
place.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
That's cool.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Sometimes I would put up everywhere I went I did need
to feel like it was a littlebit like a home and my home and
my place.
So even if we were in a hostelfor one night and I was in a
bunk bed you know, in a roomfull of bunk beds with like 20
other 20 something year olds Iwould put up every night my
little photos and my blanket andmy scarf that I used as a
blanket and then it made it,made it mine felt like home I
(08:06):
could not have done that.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
So even the traveling at that age, I don't think I
would have done it I don't knowcreature comfort yeah, just I
don't know.
I was an only child, we didn'ttravel a lot.
You know we take like a trip toflorida or something, go see my
aunt in pennsylvania.
But like the thought of likeinternational travel would have
been, I think, too overwhelming,and especially to do it not
(08:29):
necessarily by myself.
I know you're with somebody,but I don't know, I think I
would have been too scared.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Yeah, yeah, I think one thing about having moved so
young from one country to a newcountry and I lost my dad when I
was young and my brother I justwent through a lot of change in
my early years and I think it'smade me a person who thrives on
change and newness and novelty.
And it's a great thing becauseI'm very adaptable, but it can
also, especially in business, bea very hard thing because I'm
(08:56):
always looking for that noveltyand needing change, and so it's
been really hard, and thebiggest thing I've had to work
on as a business ownerparticular, is like seeing
things through and just beinghappy with what I've built and
and writing it out for a littlebit longer and not constantly
changing it up.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
So, yeah, Well, you're not alone there, you know
.
I think there's a lot of us,especially once you're doing it
for a while, you find somethingthat works and then you want to
change it instead of just,instead of just keep doing it
out.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
Yeah, it's like is it going?
Well, don't mess with it.
I don't know, I'm kind of bored.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
I can do more.
I could do a little bit more ofthis.
Yeah, I think that's a littlebit human nature and then, like
you said, if that's kind of whatyou got adjusted to, you know
pretty early on, then it's kindof in your DNA.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
So, it's a really transformative year in all the
ways, but the main one thatcomes to mind, I guess, is I got
, we got.
(09:59):
We didn't get officiallymarried.
The plan was to get married atthe end of that year in mexico
and cancun, bring all our familyand friends together that we
hadn't seen in a year and kindof celebrate, you know, the
culmination of thistransformative year and starting
this new chapter.
Um, but because we were inIndia and all the Indian family
wasn't going to be able to makeit to Mexico, they were like
let's have a little pre-wedding,a little ceremony here, which
(10:20):
was 200 people because it'sIndia, so it was bigger than her
actual wedding and I mean itwas memorable for so many
reasons.
But one of the things is I was,for the first time, really, in a
situation where I was theminority and felt that, but it
was different.
I was being celebrated, but Iwas like I had never felt so out
(10:45):
of my element.
You know, the only white womanin this room of 200 people and,
you know, dressed in clothingthat I'd never worn, with my
hair done in a way that hadnever been done, listening to a
language I didn't understand,and celebrating, you know, a
unity like celebrating, likethis new event, and it is really
(11:08):
the first time I truly feltlike an outsider, but not in a
way that felt lonely.
It felt it was just.
I was just like this is what Imust feel like.
This is what I must feel liketo be the only person in the
room, you know, who looks likeme or understands me or, you
know, has been through some ofthe things I've been through.
Yeah, um, so I just took thatin, you know.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
Yeah, I mean.
I mean mean, especially at sucha young age, I'm sure that was
great perspectives for later onin your life to have that, to
have that feeling and kind ofknow what that's like, because I
don't think many of us do.
Yeah, and that's pretty cool.
When did your family, like yourfamily, find out that that
happened?
You tell them when youofficially got married, or did
you tell them like five yearslater?
Speaker 2 (11:49):
yeah, I told them when it was happening that would
have been fun if you just keptit from him.
I just kept it a secret.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
Like three years later.
Here are the photos.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
No, no family secrets from my end.
Lots of family secrets on myother family.
Everyone else in my familythinks that keeping secrets is a
good idea until they realizeit's not.
But I've never been that person.
Opposite problem Too much of anopen book.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
Got it.
So you got back, you gotmarried and then did you guys
settle down after that in SanFrancisco or did you go there
later?
Speaker 2 (12:17):
Yeah, no, we settled down in San Francisco.
We were on a boat Two daysbefore the wedding.
Everyone was asking where arewe going to go after this?
You can go back to DC, or youcan go to Boston, where his
parents were.
You can go to Alabama.
Hell, no, where are you goingto go?
We don't know.
And a friend said well, I havea place, I have an extra bedroom
in my house.
You can come stay, stay a while, look for a job.
(12:38):
And I told kanishka, myex-husband, I was like I always
wanted to go to california.
Let's extend this adventure forone year, let's go california
and then, you know, probably endup back on the east coast and
then 14 years later never leftnever left now frisco is a good
time.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
I've only been out there once.
My wife's aunt lived out there.
We went out to visit it's 2004,I believe and we spent a week,
a couple of days in Napa.
She took us downtown, did liketouristy downtown type stuff and
then I just kind of hung out.
Yeah, cool city.
I'd love to go back and I knowI've got some connections, uh,
(13:15):
through linkedin that are outthere, so I'll, I'll eventually
get out there, hopefully soonerrather than later.
But it's a.
It's a cool part of the country, an interesting weather city,
like you never really know, likewhat the weather's going to do
out there, more so, I think,than other places, because you
think of it like because it'scalifornia, so it's like nicer,
but a lot of the time in sanfrancisco it's not, like it's
colder and rains.
Yeah that was, that was a big,that was a big eye opener
(13:36):
because we were there in March.
I think we hit like everyweather, every possible weather
thing in March.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Yeah, you know the there's.
I love San Francisco.
Sweatshirts are bestsellers.
It's like a booming business,because everybody comes here
thinking it's going to be sunnyCalifornia and then they end up
freezing their beds off andbuying these.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
I love San Francisco sweaters and Chinatown it's like
the only thing they sell.
They know that's the perfect.
Uh, really knowing youraudience and their pain points.
Truly.
Uh, yeah, I can totally feelthat Cause I don't know.
It's just, I mean, I'm from theMidwest, so I'd never been.
I mean, I've been to Vegas ahandful of times, um, I've been
to Anaheim it's pretty warm thatweek but I've never been to
Northern California.
So, yeah, it was definitelycooler than I was ready for.
(14:21):
I remember going to Alcatrazand touring Alcatraz and it was
freezing.
Uh, it was so cold it's cold,yeah, uh, so what.
So what did you do?
What did you do for work?
Like once you?
Obviously you were there longerthan you were initially
planning, but how did you delveback into the working world?
Speaker 2 (14:38):
Well, I was freelancing throughout that trip
.
So that was my first step atreally working for myself
freelancing, pitching, trying toget published, trying to build
my brand reputation.
And so I kind of continued thatand I started freelancing from
some local newspapers.
And then I did what I always doand I networked my butt off and
I reached out to all myconnections.
I found a professor who had abunch of people he knew in San
(14:59):
Francisco and publishing one ofmy journalism professors and
that guy got me an interview atthe San Francisco business times
, you know, after a coffee date,and he was in a research
position.
So I was there and doing thisresearch.
I got the job as researcherbecause of this recommendation,
because of my networking andlight here, and I was there for
a few months and the reporterwho covered hospitality, retail,
(15:20):
nonprofits, philanthropy,restaurants, like all the fun
beats, decided that she wasleaving, she needed to go on
maternity leave and then she wasgoing to go work in-house for
Clorox, and so they were lookingto fill this reporter's seat
and I was like I'm a reporter, Iwrote about, you know,
pharmaceuticals and stuff in DC,and they're like you're not a
reporter, oh, I am a reporter.
(15:41):
They're like all right, whydon't you write a story?
Like write a story and do someresearch, write a story, we'll
see.
And I killed it and they hiredme.
So I worked there for two yearsas a journalist doing all the
fun beats interviewing startups,and that's where I really got
into small businesses andstartups and telling their
stories and my entrepreneurialfreelancer bug never went away,
(16:07):
but I really needed those yearsof experience to be able to do
anything with it.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
Nice, did you just go to all the nice restaurants and
do write-ups?
Speaker 2 (16:14):
Yeah, this is the second time in my career where I
got to feel all important.
I got invited to, you know, allthe openings and parties and
everyone always wanted to talkto me when I, you know, asked
for a request for interview.
So, yes, yeah, it was really.
It was really fun.
It was not sustainable as Istarted having kids, um, but it
(16:34):
was great for, you know, a youngperson, 20s in a new city.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
That sounds good, the Capitol Hill gig?
Not so much that, that gig.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
Way more fun.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Yeah, that sounds pretty good.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
You know.
But like anything, you do itlong enough and it starts to
lose its luster you, you know,and I got tired of writing about
food.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
You know, not never really the startups and small
businesses.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
But I did get tired of writing about food.
Um, I can see that.
So what did you then?
So then what?
What did you do next?
I went to culinary school.
I'm tired of writing about food.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
I got tired of writing about food.
I'm gonna make my own yeah,exactly.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
Uh, yeah, I went to culinary school.
I wanted to get off my computerand stop at the deadline, so
that was the other unglamorous,that's the other very
unglamorous part about being ajournalist You're constantly on
deadline, you're constantlyunder the gun, you know you mess
up, you're like sued for libel,like it's low pay, high stress
job, lots of influence, lots ofunglamorous stuff.
(17:30):
Yeah, so I wanted to.
I didn't know what I was goingto do, but I went to culinary
school and then I got a job at arestaurant and I was like not
this.
And I got hired at a startupand there I was number five at
Sun Basket, which became, youknow this like huge startup
doing their you know,essentially my first content
marketing job.
So I turned my journalismskills into, you know, building
(17:52):
a story and a narrative and amedia plan for a budding startup
, and that's sort of where thatpart of my career kicked off.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
I assume that you kept networking, because you
talked about that last time, howmuch in-person networking has
really helped you, and I'massuming you kind of kept doing
that at that time.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
Yeah, I've continued doing that.
That is, I think, the numberone driver of all my business is
my in-person networking.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
Are you a natural or are you an extrovert?
Like does that kind of stuff?
Do you enjoy that?
Speaker 2 (18:23):
I do, but it's also something I'm always working on,
like.
I'm continuously trying tolearn how to, and study how to
be a better communicator, how tobe better with people, how to
be a better listener, you know,um, which is, I think,
ultimately what makes a goodnetworker right.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
But just also, uh, person who's like really fully
connected and capable ofbuilding good relationships that
go beyond work.
Um, so it's yeah, I'd say I amnaturally extroverted, but it's
like everyone else, I think it'ssomething that you need to, or
like anything else, it'ssomething that you need to
continuously work on.
You know no one's.
(19:00):
It's like a really a naturalcommunicator.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
Yeah, we're excellent networker yeah, I could do it
now I I couldn't have done, Iwouldn't have, I would have been
terrible at it.
You know, in my mid to late 20s, probably even my early 30s,
mid 30s, I still I would havefought it too much and would
have been too draining, but Icould do it now, but it
definitely is.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
You mean in person, in person, yeah, yeah yeah yeah,
I can see it being harder forintroverts and and and for my at
least.
I try to spot the introverts inthe room and talk to them.
I go to them, they're easy tospot.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
They're standing in the corner not talking to anyone
, so that's easy.
I'm looking at their watch.
When do I get to?
Speaker 2 (19:37):
leave.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
What time?
It's been two hours, right?
No, it's been 10 minutes.
Okay, I guess I'll stay.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
You know.
So that is one of the thingsI'm actually working on in a big
way next year because I startedhosting these retreats, these
in-person retreats and the lastone we hosted.
It's a small, intimate groupbut we got a mix of introverts
and extroverts and admittedly, Ihave an easier time with
extroverts because you know weget each other, we like talk
over each other.
And then I realized I had aharder time with the introverts
(20:06):
and my co-host, emma, was sogood, she was so good at like
drawing them out and bringingthem into the fold in the
conversation in such a naturalway, and I and I told her that
is my biggest work for this nextyear is figuring is like really
understanding that personalitytype and different personality
types and neurodivergentpersonality types and really
(20:27):
understanding how to, how toreally communicate with them and
how to listen and how to beempathetic and how to bring them
in and how to draw them out and, um, I think, if I want to
continue being a facilitatorwhich I do it's a really
important skill that I need tolearn that people yeah, it's a
good point.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
I don't think a lot of people would take enough time
to think about it like at thatdepth, and so it's good for you
for doing it.
I learned so.
I'm a lifelong introvert and Iwas really shy as a kid, really
shy, and I always thought thosetwo went together.
And then a guest on this show,amanda Kwok, back in the summer
kind of explained it in a muchbetter way for me.
But they're two totallyseparate things so that you can
(21:04):
be both away from me.
But they're two totallyseparate things so that you can
be both but you don't have to be.
But I just always thought, well, like I'm shy and an introvert,
and she was like you could havebeen not shy and introvert, you
could have been an introvert,not shy, so you can flip them.
But so it's interesting becauseit's all about energy.
It's all it's like introversionand extroversion is nothing
more than just where you getyour energy.
So typically introverts in acrowd and a group right, your
(21:25):
energy is drained much morequickly and you need to go be by
yourself, to kind of decompress, whereas extroverts in a crowd
or group of people are energizedand it's sort of a reverse.
So what I have found, like as anintrovert, like in a group
setting like that, how manypeople did you have in Costa
Rica?
10.
And like, were there times whenall 10 of you would have been
in the same room or areaConstantly?
(21:53):
Yeah, and like, were theretimes when all 10 of you would
have been in the same room orarea, kind of talking, yeah,
okay, so so like for me it woulddepend on how well I knew those
people.
So like if, if I was there andonly knew you and I knew no one
else, you would see a completelydifferent version of me, versus
if, like, six of them I knewpretty well and four that I
didn't, you would then see adifferent version if I knew all
10 like really well.
So it's like it really varieson your intimacy and your
comfort level with the people,and the more that you are
(22:15):
comfortable, the more yourselfyou'll be the different version
you'll see.
And then it's exactly theopposite.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
And what's the difference between that and
being shy?
Speaker 1 (22:25):
So shy is more just not wanting to speak up.
So you could be extroverted andget energy from a crowd but
then be shy and not want to talkor not, or your voice would not
come out strong or likewhatever.
So it's, it has nothing to dowith energy, it's more just
about like your willingness tolike put yourself out there and
like speak.
(22:45):
You know confidence, or a littlebit probably, yeah um, so, but
like I always sat in the back ofclassrooms, I never wanted to
be called on like if I could goan entire semester and not have
to speak in school, like when Iwas, you know, probably fifth
grade on, you know, like thatwould have been great.
Please don't call me so.
(23:05):
So, yeah, so I, we didn't talkabout the retreats last time, I
didn't know much about them, andnow I know that you've done one
, you're getting ready to doanother one, or you're planning
another one in may, what?
So I don't really know anythingabout retreats.
Like, so you have this group of10, you're in costa rica, so
what do you do?
I have no idea.
Like, what, like, what do youdo?
What does it?
Speaker 2 (23:25):
Well, that is one of the things we were sorting
through last year.
What is a good balance?
For what do you do?
We promise coming out of thisretreat with this set of skills
or understanding and focus onyour business, but three days is
simultaneously a long time andnot long enough is
(23:45):
simultaneously a long time andnot long enough.
So we spend part of our daysdoing workshops and hot seats
where, basically, you get timededicated time to talk openly
about all the challenges in yourbusiness and get input and
ideas from the group, which wasprobably the most powerful for
everybody.
And then there were otherstructured workshops for things
like building systems orfiguring out which marketing
(24:07):
approach or tactics and toolsand processes for strategic
growth.
So I had a retreat.
Well, it depends on the retreat, but this was both a business.
It's a retreat to really beable to focus and spend time on
your business.
I think one of the things Irealized is like you really need
space and time and likededicated time to think
(24:32):
strategically because you'reconstantly in it If you're, if
you're, you know, in a business,working in a business, and we
don't give ourselves that time,and so this is dedicated time
where we're like focusing onthese things.
We're happy to talk about yourbusiness for three days, which
you know you can't do with likeyour spouse or your friends or
like anyone that's not in abusiness group with you, because
they're tired of hearing aboutit, you know, and they're not in
the same situation, they don'tunderstand.
So this is like a group ofother people that completely
(24:54):
understand what you're goingthrough, because they're in it
too, with some guidance, rightand facilitation, and so, yeah,
we would spend, you know, a goodportion of the day doing that
and then the rest of it doingother activities, because we're
in Costa Rica, making it reallya retreat.
So we did yoga, we did a surflesson, we did dinners out, you
(25:17):
know, we did walks on the beach,and all those opportunities
were just more opportunities forconversations, to keep working
on stuff.
Like I had this insight duringthat workshop about something
that I've been doing that Ishould start doing differently
for the outcome that I want, andI want to talk through it with
you a little bit more, becauseyou seem to get it, you know, or
you seem to have been throughit already, and so it just
facilitates all thoseconversations that are like even
(25:38):
more intimate and that you'renot going to have a harder time
getting on a Slack group or, youknow, in the 15 minutes between
talks at a conference.
So that's it.
And usually I come out ofconferences two-day conferences,
three-day conferences, one-dayconferences like just buzzing
with ideas and connections andnew information and things I
(26:00):
want to apply and do, and Iusually feel very overwhelmed.
But I didn't feel that wayafter this last retreat, and
that was one of the things weheard from everybody else too,
is that I actually felt calm, Ifelt clarity and I felt peace
and like I had a direction thatI know I need to go in.
And then we checked in witheverybody like four weeks later
Okay, how's everyone doing?
What's that?
(26:20):
You know, we ended with this isthe next step I'm going to take
to, you know, get to this goal.
How's everyone doing towardsthat stuff?
And they're like well, I did it, I took the first step and I'm
doing this.
Some people are like I'moverwhelmed again.
Okay, all right, let's talkabout what it is.
I'm back at where I was atbefore, which is like I can't
focus on anything.
What do I focus on?
I'm so good at so many things.
(26:40):
It's like all right, let's talkabout this.
So you know it's not.
It's not a one and done, it's a.
It's a continuous process.
But, as I was telling youearlier, it's like I have an
opportunity now to work with oneof these people on a community
and now I'm a strategic partner.
That only happened because ofthe conversations we were having
in those rooms, and by thoserooms I mean on the patio,
because everything was outsidespace, space, expansive space to
(27:02):
think.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
No, it sounds good.
So how did you decide on the 10people and were you intentional
about their skill sets andbackgrounds in terms of
obviously you'd want as manykind of different perspectives
and like uniqueness.
So you'd want, I would assume,like a mix of experienced,
(27:26):
established business people,maybe some newer people,
different industries.
How did you come up with that?
You said Emma was your co-host.
I assume you guys kind ofplanned that together.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
We did, yeah, and it was really an extension of both
of our networks.
The people who ended up comingyes, we were intentional who we
chose.
We wanted businesses prettymuch around the same level, but
there were some that were two,three years into business and
some that were seven years intobusiness, and it didn't mean
that the people who are sevenyears into their business didn't
learn, didn't have take awaysome things from the people who
(27:55):
are two years into theirbusiness.
It was mostly content marketersand writers for that one.
So we were actually specificthat we wanted all these to be
similar businesses, and therewere a couple of people who
weren't, though, and it wasbecause of that that we
recognized the value of havingdifferent types of service-based
business owners.
Like, we're all kind of doingthe same business model to an
extent, but our businesses arecompletely different.
(28:17):
You know, they're not just inwriting or content marketing,
and that was really reallyhelpful for the group.
So that is what we're going tofocus on this year in terms of
selecting the crew justdifferent types of business
owners, who are allservice-based business owners
but serving different clients,different industries.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
Nice, yeah, so you're doing Mexico kind of middle of
May and I think you said you'redoing 12 people this time.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
We're doing 12 people this time, yeah 12, including
you and Emma, or in addition 12,including me and Emma yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
So 10 more, and I assume it'll be like a similar
process of trying to figure outthe right mix.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
Similar process of trying to figure out the right
mix A different set ofactivities, because we're going
to be in an urban setting asopposed to by a beach, but all
towards a similar end.
And last year's focus wasbuilding an intentional business
, one that you really like,working in making sure that all
of your marketing and operationsand clientele are aligned with
(29:13):
what you actually want.
You know so many people end upbuilding these accidental
businesses and being like Idon't I don't.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
What am I doing?
I don't want to do this.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
I'm just building another job for myself, and so
that was the real focus, andthis year, the focus is more on
the strategic growth and thesteps that you need to really
hone in focus, accelerate, takeit to the next, take it to the
next.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
Game changer, if you will.
You know how much I love.
You know my cliches.
So, yeah, no, it sounds.
It sounds amazing and I'm goingto get to get to a retreat.
I think I've talked to enoughpeople that have done them.
They all speak really highly ofthem, so I'm like, all right,
I'm missing out, I gotta get.
I gotta get to one of these.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
Yeah, someday.
I think it's also just thecrowd that it attracts.
And yeah, the reason.
You're all there.
Know, the facilitators make abig difference too.
Yeah, the other.
Yeah, I couldn't find one Iwanted to participate in, so I
built my own built your own.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
No, that's uh that, do you guys?
There's a guy on linkedin thisis not off topic, but it's a
good story his name is billyoppenheimer.
Do you know?
Do you know that name?
I'm familiar so he does.
I think he works, or he used towork with Ryan Holiday as like
one of his, like writing people,anyway.
So he does this series onLinkedIn you should follow him
(30:29):
if you're not and he writesthese really in-depth stories.
A lot of times it's about likecelebrities but like their
backstory, and so he just hadone and the reason you just
talked about like building yourown.
So he wrote about Matt Damon.
So Matt Damon auditioned fordead poet society, didn't get it
, then went back home, worked ina movie theater.
(30:51):
The movie theater showed onemovie that summer dead poet
society so he had to work at thetheater taking tickets for the
movie that he wanted to be inand seeing all these people
coming out crying and like itwas so moving right yeah so a
couple years later he uh, getsthe script for primal fear,
reads the script, realizes thatthe role that ed norton ended up
(31:12):
getting was going to be acareer changing role for whoever
got it like hired a dialectcoach that he couldn't afford to
interview.
There were 2 000 people to tryto get that role.
Ed norton got it who was anunknown actor?
That was his first ever role inHollywood.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
And so Damon's thinking like you know, I've
been at this for a while he hadhad some really just like small
bit parts.
This guy comes in, who no oneknew gets this role.
I think he won a couple awardsfor that and it just launched,
you know, Ed Norton's career andthat's why that he and Ben
Affleck wrote Good Will Hunting,because they were like this
(31:48):
normal, the normal setup isn'tworking for us.
We want to be actors.
We'll write our own script andthen we'll be actors in our own
movie.
So like you know, so anyway,it's really, it's really
interesting.
He does stuff like that likeall the time how does he do his
research?
Yeah, I don't know, because I Iknew a little.
I've heard damon on podcast.
I thought I knew some of hisbackstory, but I had never heard
(32:08):
, like I had never heard that.
Yeah, it was really he don't.
He did one recently with uhquentin tarantino, whose first
movie was just like, apparentlyjust awful, and everyone hated
it yeah he worked on it.
He worked on it for like threeyears and everyone was like
that's terrible and so like he,like he probably should have
quit and then, obviously, mostpeople would have.
Yeah yeah, yeah, exactlyanyways.
(32:30):
But but that's cool that you,like you had, you had kind of
done it, hadn't seen success youwere like I'm gonna rewrite it
and I'm gonna do it, I'm gonnado it myself.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
That was your own version of uh, of goodwill
hunting yes, one day I will beon a podcast talking about Good
Will Hunting retreat business.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
How do you know Emma?
How did you meet her?
How did you guys form thispartnership?
Speaker 2 (32:53):
I love this story.
Emma is a content writer who hasa newsletter where she writes
sporadically.
I think she was consistent withit, goodness, at first.
Sorry, kat, she was consistentwith it when she first started,
but she's been in business for10 years as a content writer and
so you know consistent businessand so her newsletter kind of
(33:13):
was something that she just keptgoing for herself.
At one point She'd send it likeonce a quarter, sometimes once
every other month, and I got onit somehow.
I actually don't remember how Ifound her.
I got on it and I just feltlike I was developing this
relationship with her becauseshe was telling all these
stories about herself.
She was very open andvulnerable about how she was
feeling.
She was a new mother andstruggling with, like, having
(33:35):
this online business and feelingso isolated and didn't know
what to do.
From the pandemic she started alittle newspaper in her
neighborhood, like all thisstuff.
One day she wrote in hernewsletter I'm really done
working on my own.
I hosted this retreat before thepandemic, called Domina, for
content writers.
15 people came.
It was amazing.
It was transformative.
I want to do it again, but mybusiness partner no longer wants
(33:56):
to do it.
It's been some time.
We were going to do it the nextyear, but then pandemic had a
kid, so it's been four years.
Anyone out there interested?
And I replied to that email andI was like, hey, you don't know
me, but I've always wanted todo something like this.
You know, I feel like I knowyou, I really like you, I feel
like we're very aligned.
I want to talk and see if Icould be your partner, and
that's how it started.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
Love it, putting your , putting yourself out there and
like signing, like raising yourhand, that's it, that's it I
mean I really it's.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
I think it's both.
It's both right.
It's like really puttingyourself out there and giving
other people the opportunity toget to know you on this deeper
level, on this intimate level.
It's my whole shtick.
You know storytelling andtelling personal stories on your
public platforms, and and thenit's on my end yeah, and then
it's actually raising your handand saying you want to do this,
I want to do this.
I mean that's.
You know I reach out to peopleall the time for these kind of
(34:46):
partnerships.
I saw you talked about thisthing.
Do you want to host a jointwebinar together?
I saw that you're looking for,you know someone who knows
content systems?
I know content systems.
Speaker 1 (34:56):
Can I come and be part of your workshop and that's
created a ton of opportunityfor me, but you have to ask, you
do, you have to ask, and itcompounds right, because the
more you do it, then you getconfidence, and then you start
to get yeses and then you startto have success and so then
you're like like this reallyworks and then you never know,
like where that's going to go,because you don't know who they
know and like what they're doing.
(35:16):
So it's.
I don't think most people woulddo it like you would just be
like, oh, like she'll, probablyyou'll talk yourself out of it,
right, like she doesn't know me,I'm sure she has other people
to come up with all theseexcuses and you don't even give
yourself a chance.
So I love that you just werelike yeah, like 100%.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
Let's do it.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
No, that's amazing.
Now you had mentioned you mightdo a couple more local ones.
Are those just like smaller,like one dayers, or?
Speaker 2 (35:40):
Yeah, we you know we're gonna do this other big
mexico city one, but we werethinking about how we can make
this a little bit moreaccessible and a little bit of a
lower lift.
There's more consistency inthis.
New narratives.
You know, little sub business,little side hustle, retreat
business, and so that would belike a day in the bay area she's
, she's in the bay area as well.
Or a day in denver, you know,at a ranch or something like
(36:02):
that.
Um, I don't know if there areranches in Denver.
Are there ranches in Denver?
Maybe?
Speaker 1 (36:05):
I don't know there are now.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
Okay, colorado, but somewhere that's like easy for
people to fly into.
You know, isn't this bigexpense and commitment, you know
, more conference-y but stillintimate?
Not, you know, probably likehalf those are like 30 people,
for instance.
Probably like half, those arelike 30 people, for instance.
And so it's not the same as theretreat, but, um, you know,
(36:29):
it's this idea of getting peopletogether in person and really
getting dedicated time to workon your business?
Speaker 1 (36:31):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, I think there's a lot to that.
Like you said, the in-personenergy is different, and
especially on like two or threedays where you're spending a lot
of time together or you canspend a lot of time together, so
you can have different,different levels of conversation
that can spawn maybe not evenjust business, but you get
personal when you get background, how it all kind of mixes
together and then you know, soyou, you just get a different,
it's just different.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
Yeah, that's it, and I think the big thing that we're
trying to do differently withnew narratives is that, like we
really want to build a communitywhere it's like it's okay to
bring your whole self into it,because business is deeply
personal.
When you're working foryourself, you know you really
can't untangle the two things,so you shouldn't have to, and
this is like a safe space whereyou can like bring all of it.
Speaker 1 (37:13):
Yeah, for sure.
Um, well, there's a lot morethat we could get into, but I
feel like this is a good placeto stop.
Thanks for coming back, thanksfor sharing and actually worked
out, because we got to talkabout the retreats this time, we
didn't talk about that lasttime, so that's been good.
I love your work.
I love your content.
I'm so happy that you came back.
Any final thoughts, anythingyou want to leave?
And then how can people reachout if they want to get more
(37:36):
information?
Speaker 2 (37:38):
Well, I just sent out my last newsletter of the year
and it's all around this idea ofspeaking out, using your voice,
finding your voice, you know,articulating your value, asking
for what you want.
It's this woman's story,chantal, who is now a
bestselling author, a careercoach, a keynote speaker who
gets five figure, you know, 60minute speaking deals all the
(37:59):
time and she works full time asan executive salesperson and
she's got an incrediblebackstory and so I wanted to
tell it and really she inspiredme to really focus next year on
continuing to speak out,continuing to articulate your
value like really trying to findyour voice.
(38:20):
A lot of it, just you know,comes back to figure finding
yourself, you know, finding thatconfidence, finding that
confidence to speak up.
And yeah, that's what I'm goinginto the new year with and I
would encourage other people totoo.
So, and if you need helpfinding your voice, I can help
(38:40):
you.
Help finding your voice, I canhelp you.
Um, yeah, um, thank you so muchfor having me on.
What about you?
Any, any, any?
Speaker 1 (38:54):
wrap up the year.
Words of wisdom.
David, I feel like you're sothoughtful, Um, you know, I
would say storytelling, which Iknow is a big one for you.
Really telling your story,that's what people grasp onto
especially in this era of plugand play content and AI and all
that type of stuff, they can'ttell your story because they
don't know it.
So if you're not sure what towrite about, tell a piece of
your story and people that willgravitate towards that they're
your people and the people thatwon't, they weren't your people
(39:16):
anyway.
So that's how you stand out andespecially with the way
LinkedIn's's kind of the way theplatform is moving and organic
reach being down, people are alittle bit worried about that.
Like a, you can't really doanything about it, but b your
unique story will always standout and so that's, that's what
you have to do.
So we can all google and gpt,you know, top five and top 10
(39:39):
list and productivity hacks andlike all that kind of stuff, if
we want, but we can't, we can'tlearn about you and what you
have to offer and yourpersonality and your background
and your experience, like allthat stuff is hard or not hard.
Like all of the, all of oursare different.
So you know, that's what youreally.
That's.
Your unique identifier is yourlived experience and then your
background.
So that's what you have to letpeople know.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
Yeah, that's what you have to let people know yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:03):
Awesome.
Well, appreciate the time,enjoy a holiday with your family
and friends, and we'll do itagain next year.
Speaker 2 (40:10):
David take care.
Speaker 1 (40:11):
Thanks.
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