January 9, 2025 • 41 mins
What if leaving the stability of the corporate world could lead you to your true passion?
Join us as we explore Jamie Dykstra's transition from a finance and project management career to becoming a successful nonfiction book ghostwriter.
In a candid discussion, Jamie shares how a supportive friend and a business coach helped her uncover a love for writing she never expected. From blogging and copywriting to finding her niche in ghostwriting, she discovered the profound joy of helping others bring their stories to life.
Jamie also opens up about the world of ghostwriting, offering a glimpse into her meticulous process of capturing a client's unique voice. She shares strategies for maintaining cohesiveness and nurturing authentic client relationships.
Discover how social media, especially LinkedIn, plays a crucial role in reaching a diverse clientele, proving that the digital world can be a powerful tool for creative professionals seeking meaningful connections and career growth.
The episode considers the evolving perceptions of creative careers after COVID, challenging the outdated "starving artist" mindset. Jamie's journey underscores the potential for stability and fulfillment in creative pursuits, drawing parallels between the challenges faced by NFL quarterbacks and those encountered by creatives.
As we wrap up our conversation, Jamie's inspiring story serves as a reminder that following your passion can lead to both personal and professional success, and sometimes, making bold career choices is the key to unlocking a more rewarding future.
Jamie's LinkedIn Profile:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/jamie-dykstra/
Non-Fiction Book Blueprint:
https://jamiedykstra.com/download-your-free-non-fiction-book-blueprint/
David's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-young-mba-indy/
David's Website: https://davidjyoung.me/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Real you Podcast.
This is episode 27, and thiswill be the first one released
in 2025.
I'm David Young, your host.
I'm a LinkedIn content andbusiness coach.
I help coaches and solopreneursgrow their businesses through
better storytelling and contentcreation.
I launched this podcast inMarch of 24 to spotlight
interesting people doing amazingthings, and today I'm joined by
Jamie Dykstra, a nonfictionbook ghostwriter who moved from
(00:21):
the world of finance andspreadsheets, which are two of
my favorite things, to tales oftriumph and adventure.
We'll discuss her journey, howshe uses LinkedIn, how she
fosters authentic relationshipbuilding her focus on joy in the
writing process and the.
This is a challenge for all ofus ever-evolving quest to master
her mindset as a solopreneur,which is a very real challenge.
Jamie, thanks so much formaking time for me and coming on
(00:43):
the show today.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Thanks so much for having me.
I'm excited to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Yeah, absolutely so.
How did you get from financeand accounting and spreadsheets
to writing?
That's not a common it's not.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
It was definitely a journey.
I get this question a lot and Ithink a lot of people thought
one day I was just like, oh, I'mgoing to be a writer, that
would have been easier.
But yeah, my undergraduatedegree is in accounting.
I have a master's in finance.
After college I joined thecorporate world and I got a job
in corporate finance, which Iloved.
(01:17):
I loved the people that Iworked with.
I got to learn a lot.
I also got to dabble in someproject management and ended up
becoming a certified PMP.
So then I started to focuslater on in my corporate career
on kind of project managementand operations.
I love the people aspect, Ilove coordinating things and
organizing and all of thatbecause while I liked
(01:38):
spreadsheets, the people kind oflit me up and that's what I
enjoyed the most.
But then April of 2022, I waslike I need a break.
I need a corporate break.
I had had some greatexperiences, but at that point
in time it just felt aligned totake a step back and I started
working at small, local familybusiness here and I was just
(02:01):
going to do that for the summerand, you know, get some income
still and then rejoin thecorporate world after summer was
over.
It was going to be my adultsummer break.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
Summer of Jamie.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Yeah, the summer, I think I did term it that way at
one point.
I got to the end of the summerand I was like, nope, don't want
to go back to the corporateworld.
I just, yeah, it just felt likethis huge weight every time I
thought about it.
I loved the freedom I haddeveloped over the summer and it
was hard to go back after that.
(02:32):
So I was like, well, the onlysolution that I know is to start
my own business.
So I honestly kind of backedinto it.
So I had the idea I want tostart a business, but I have no
idea what I want to do.
One of my really good friendswho I'd also worked with she was
like you're really good atwriting.
Why don't you maybe like starta blog or something, see if you
can do some affiliate income orwhatever and see where it goes?
(02:55):
And I was like, well, yeah,like that's, that's a good idea,
but I have no idea what towrite about.
At which point she listed like10 different blog type series
that I could do and I was like,okay, I see your point.
So I started the blog.
I hired a coach.
Rasa DeSalvo was my businesscoach that I hired.
She's phenomenal.
I joined a mastermind, saw thepower of coaching, actually
(03:18):
endeavored down the coachingpath for a while and then she
was like, hey, you know, youkind of of kind of like
abandoned the writing thing thatyou wanted to do and I was like
, oh yeah, you're right.
And so one day last fall we werebrainstorming like ways to make
money writing and one of theways that had come up in the
brainstorm that she hadmentioned actually was
copywriting.
(03:39):
And I was like because I mean,to be honest, I knew I was good
at writing I had no idea waysyou could make money writing
besides writing your own bookand selling it.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Right.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
She mentioned copywriting and she kind of gave
me a brief overview and I waslike, yeah, it sounds good, I'm
going to do it.
And she was like, well, youknow, I can sit with that, like
I worked in corporate, I canwrite emails with the best of
them.
And I just decided that waskind of what I wanted to do.
I joined a course.
I invited people I had threeclients within the first week of
small business owners that Iknew and so I was like, well,
(04:10):
I'm a copywriter and now I gotto figure it out, and so that
was how I got the traction in mybusiness.
I just started to get moreclients from there.
And then I learned aboutghostwriting.
End of last year, earlier thisyear, and one of the coaches in
my copywriting course he had alot of ghostwriters were
copywriters in their previouslife.
Learn more about ghostwriting.
I was like that is the stuff.
(04:32):
Like I've always wanted towrite books, but I love getting
to tell other people's storiesand helping them share their
lessons.
It just it felt awesome and sothat's that's how I.
That was my long and windingpath from finance to being a
ghost writer.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
Well, it makes I mean there's there's some logic
there.
You didn't just you know, likejust up and quit and be like I'm
going to write like it kind ofit kind of evolved, you know,
over time.
That's interesting.
I hadn't thought aboutcopywriting as a like segue into
ghost writing.
I think I would.
(05:10):
I don't think I would have putthat together, but that's
interesting, so it makes.
I mean, it does make sense.
What do you write?
Speaker 2 (05:13):
nonfiction books.
So is that business likebiographies?
Yeah, it can be a whole host ofthings.
So memoirs is a big one.
Business books, of course, is abig one, and that doesn't have
to be a biography.
You know people, especiallyconsultants, coaches, whatever
have frameworks and systems thatwork, that they can put in a
book, and of course they'resharing their stories along the
way.
But it's not technically abiography.
(05:33):
Personal development books fallin that realm as well, and
actually travel books too, whichI hadn't really thought about.
But you see all my posts andthe travel variety definitely
interests me, and a lot of thoseare still technically memoirs
but with the travel focus, andthere's a lot of good lessons
that come out of travel as well,and so that's been a really
interesting one to kind of diveinto as well.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
Is that?
Did you cause?
You do post a lot of picturesabout traveling is?
Was that related to the booksor you were kind of doing that
on your own then, that kind oftied into the books after the
fact?
Speaker 2 (06:06):
I was doing that on my own the summer of Jamie.
I was like, well, I got toembrace it, right Going
everywhere.
Yeah, I actually.
I traveled like a normal amountbeforehand but.
I started to travel more thenand I had some friends in
Wyoming that I mean it's like asix hour drive to anywhere get
out West, and so they are alwayswilling to meet me places and
(06:28):
they would be like, hey, meet usin Park City and I'm like, okay
, so I'll just hop on a plane.
Really, the traveling kind ofstarted after I left corporate
and this year I was likeintentionally trying to
reconnect with some collegefriends and stuff, and one of
them lives in California,Another one lives in the Philly
(06:49):
area and so just naturallytrying to connect with people
lended itself to traveling.
And so it kind of happened, byaccident, to be quite honest,
and then it was happening somuch that this year I was like I
want to travel like every twomonths at least.
And it worked out and it was alot of fun.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
Nice.
Now do you write, I assume,even when you're on the road, do
you still write, or do you usethat time to kind of get away
from it?
Speaker 2 (07:09):
It depends on the trip.
So if it's like a long weekend,I'll usually try to work ahead
and just totally disconnect.
But if it's you know the sevento ten day variety then I do end
up working.
But I'll usually only log infor two, three hours in the
morning, knock it out.
Usually the other people are.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
We don't have plans first thing in the morning
unless you know, a Yellowstoneday can take the entire day and
more.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
I will work on those longer trips.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
Gotcha, was it hard to find the first ghostwriting
client.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Yes, um, I, I ghostwriting is a higher ticket
service and so getting someoneto invest in that and of course
you don't you don't charge thehighest amount right away, you
charge some more intro pricing,but but still it's, it's an
investment of time and money and, um, and the first one, you
(08:03):
know, yeah, hey you're my firstbut I did hired a ghostwriting
coach as well, which was, uh,ryan guthrie is my ghostwriting
coach too.
I can't speak highly enough ofeither of my coaches, um, and
and he was a great help in thattoo, because when I'd get on
discovery calls I'd be like, hey, I have this coach that's done
this for years and he's he'sgonna be everything giving
(08:27):
feedback, detailed comments andthat gave a lot of comfort and
really helped with kind ofsecuring that first client.
So you're not really justgetting someone doing it for the
first time Like you're gettinga seasoned professional like
this.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
I'm not just going to wing it.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
Yeah, no, it gives it kind of validated by what
you're doing.
So I mean that makes a lot ofsense.
I'm assuming now that you'vedone it multiple times, even if
you still have a coach, you haveenough kind of credentials and
experience where it's notprobably not as big a deal now,
I'm assuming.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Yeah, yeah, I'm definitely still early on in the
journey because you know, books, books take some time to work
through and I do still have mycoach having continued.
I told him he stuck with me fora while just because it's the
quickest way to learn Right andI feel good about giving people
that value.
But yes, the first couple ofprojects especially as with any
business venture it's like hugelearning curve and learn so much
(09:19):
from from those to feel moreconfident going into the next
ones.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
Yes, yeah, for sure, what I know.
It probably varies depending onthe client and the topic, but
typically how long does it takeyou to write kind of the start,
start, start of a project, toend a project like what is?
Again, I know it varies butlike what's a ballpark of, like
what you kind of anticipate?
Speaker 2 (09:41):
Yeah, yeah, I typically tell people that for
our time together for theghostwriting it's a four to six
month process for just thewriting and that is like you
said.
It depends.
It's varied client to clientand they kind of get to drive it
.
Some people want to meet once aweek, some people want to meet
once every other week and itdepends on the length of the
(10:02):
book and kind of their journeyas well.
It can go longer.
I would say it would not goshorter because we don't want to
sacrifice quality for speed.
But yeah, it kind of depends onthe client, which is why, like
I said, I just learned about itearlier this year.
So I'm quite honestly workingthrough my first couple of
projects still, but I've learnedan immense amount from it.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
Gotcha, do you have a set writing process where, like
you, always write at a certaintime each day, or do you vary,
or kind of how do you like?
How do you set that up?
Speaker 2 (10:31):
I do, and that's been a journey as well, to kind of
figure out what works best.
But I'm an early riser and so Iusually log in by six and
that's when I do the bookwriting stuff.
So the really deep writing I dofirst thing in the morning.
My brain is freshest, no one'sbugging me, I'm not getting
emails and phone calls and stufflike that, and so I do my deep
(10:54):
writing from like that six toeight or nine time frame.
And yeah, for ghost writing italso actually depends on the
type of book too.
So, like business and personaldevelopment books, we'll do an
interview with a client and thendo the writing for that
particular interview after it'sdone and continue the cadence
(11:16):
For a memoir.
It's different because therecan be things that come out as
they tell their story thatreally impact the story, and so
you don't want to be writing asyou go and then having to try to
backtrack to make it morecohesive, and so the writing
strategy can change a little bit.
But for me personally, yeah,it's lighting that candle with
my cup of coffee at 6 am.
(11:38):
Right now I have like mycolored Christmas tree next to
me.
I got to get all the ambience,and then I listen to the
recording and then get to me.
I got to get all the ambienceand then I listened to the
recording and then get towriting.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
Nice.
Do you have a goal then with atwo to three hour chunk to get
accomplished, or you just usemore of a time thing, like
whatever?
You kind of get done in thatway.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
Yeah, I usually try to and again, it depends on the
structure of the book.
I usually try to get onechapter done during that time,
so it's cohesive and it's notlike I stopped and started in
the middle of it.
Or if it's got, you know,shorter sections, I'll set a
goal for you know, threesections or whatever to get
through.
So it's mostly my goal iscohesiveness and however long it
(12:17):
takes to get through thatcohesive chunk is what I'll
devote to it.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
Do you set?
How often then are you sending?
Sending drafts or copies to theclient?
Speaker 2 (12:26):
That's somewhat client dependent too and
obviously book dependent,because the memoir, all of that
kind of comes at the end.
But definitely in every casethe client will get the first,
at least in my process.
Every ghostwriter is different.
Client gets the first 20 to 25pages.
Make sure that I'm capturingtheir voice and the tone and
(12:46):
everything that they want,because basically as a
ghostwriter you have to pretendto be them writing it and that's
a journey that I mean the firstdraft is it's.
You're not going for perfectionon the first draft, right.
It's a journey of learningdifferent styles and tones and
creative perspectives andbecause for the author, like
(13:07):
it's their, it's their baby,like a book is a bucket list
thing for a lot of people.
So it's working through some ofthat and then kind of gauging
from there how to go afterwards.
Giving too many chunks toofrequently in the first draft
can be problematic because it issuch a work in progress.
So it's just kind of sometimesthat'll be it.
If the first 20 to 25 pages islike yeah, like we're on a good
(13:30):
track, then probably just takeit from there and keep writing
to make sure I can move thingsaround as needed in the writing
process.
But if there's more refinementthen I'm happy to you know, get
more sections later on to refine.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
Makes sense?
Do you have them submit emailsor papers or content creation
that shows their writing?
So you kind of it kind of givesyou an insight into, like, how
they write, or how do you goabout capturing their voice
through writing.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Yeah, I usually don't ask them to submit things, but
I find them on social media.
I see what they've posted.
I look for talks that they'vesocial media.
I see what they've posted.
I look for talks that they'vedone on YouTube or podcasts that
they've been on things likethat and to really try to
because yes, there's adifference in literary voice and
speaking voice but really if Ican listen to at least their
speaking voice, then I get afeel for words that they use and
(14:20):
cadence and things like that.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
Gotcha, and you talked about the joy in writing.
Obviously it's something youhave to enjoy to do, certainly
for any long period of time.
Is it something you're kind ofconsciously and mindful about,
like the joy in writing, or likehow do you, how do you kind of
manifest the joy part when itcomes to writing?
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Yeah, um, when I talk about the joy in writing, I'm
usually actually my goal is tomake the process the most joyful
for my clients that it can be.
Um, of course, I want to findyou know the joy myself, but my
focus is the joy in in theprocess for other people,
because I think so often whatholds people back from writing a
(15:02):
book is themselves is how muchtime it's going to take, how
much energy drain it's going tobe.
How am I going to fit this in?
What am I going to write about?
I don't know where to start,and so I not only want to help
them to make that happen, but Iwant it to be fun for them.
Right?
A book is we're spending a lotof time together.
During that time.
(15:23):
I just I just wrapped up aproject and we we developed like
we spent a lot of time togethergot to know each other really
well and so I want people tocome to their meetings and be
like excited about coming to themeetings and not be like, oh
man, this is another commitment.
I don't know, and that's reallywhat my focus is is maybe the
(15:45):
joy in the process for theclient and loving how it's going
.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
Yeah, no, that makes sense.
Is that part of therelationship building that you
mentioned in the time thatyou're spending together?
And then, obviously, that'sonly going to help you know,
whether it's referrals orrecommendations or testimonials
right, that's obviously a keypart, you know, to all of that.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
For sure.
Yeah, the relationship buildingis so paramount for really
anything.
I mean LinkedIn's.
I've met incredible peoplethrough LinkedIn this year, you
being one of them.
That's kind of how therelationship starts.
Is that genuine outreach oflike?
I'm not looking to get anythingout of this and if something
comes out of it, that'sfantastic.
(16:26):
But I really like you and yourbrand and what you stand for and
I'd like to connect and I thinkthat starts a solid foundation
of like I'm not just atransactional person, like I
genuinely I'm excited about whatyou do and I'm excited about
helping with your book and then,yeah, it's holding that space.
Being a ghostwriter is a veryyou become deeply involved with
(16:47):
that person because a book itcan be a cathartic process and,
depending on the topic of thebook too, it's a vulnerable one
as well, as people kind of tellyou their stories and what
they've learned from it and gothrough their own journey as
well, and like reminding people,like yes, your story is worth
telling and people need to hearit, and things like that.
(17:08):
So having the authenticrelationship and not just the
I'm here to get in and out andready to move on, is really
important.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
No, it makes sense.
You had an interesting postit's been maybe two or three
weeks ago that I hadn't thoughtabout until I read it about kind
of the mystery of theghostwriter and the fact that
you don't get any credit.
You're not mentioned anywhere.
It's completely anonymous andlike kind of the psychology in
that.
So talk about that a little bit.
I thought that was fascinating.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
Yeah, that's something people get caught up
on it and, quite honestly, Iknow I said I just got into
ghostwriting earlier this yearbut I'd heard people talk about
it.
I didn't really know what itwas like on a writing podcast of
hey, I write books for people,but I just write it and then I
just I could never wrap my headaround it until I guess this
(17:57):
year, like the penny dropped.
And to someone who's not doingit, I totally understand it.
Like hey, you're doing all ofthis work and like you, you
don't get any credit for it likeI don't understand, but for me
it's really a reward.
I mean, first of all, I justpractically as a ghostwriter
you're compensated up front, solike I'm being paid for doing
(18:19):
the work.
That's all that, really, from abusiness perspective that's.
It's a fair practice, right?
It's not unfair that my name'snot being mentioned, like I'm
getting paid for the work and wemove on.
But more than that, the joy andthe fulfilling and meaningful
part for me is helping otherpeople to tell their story, and
(18:40):
it doesn't.
It truly is the author's book.
I'm just physically helpingthem to put it on paper and
structure it, but it's theirstories, it's their teachings,
it's all their content.
So it should be their name onthe cover, right?
It's their brainchild and I'mjust physically helping to put
words on paper for them, and soI think that's something that
(19:03):
people don't think about whenthey ask.
The question is not really me,and I'm just happy to be able to
help people make an impact inthe world through writing their
book.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
No, I mean, that's a great, great way to approach it.
Could they Is it their choice?
Like, could they say you knowghost written by Jamie Dykstra,
if they wanted to, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
It's absolutely the way my NDAs are structured, is
it's author's discretion howthey want to acknowledge so they
can put an, they can dowhatever they want with it.
I'm just, you know, not goingto be out there.
You know, talking about it.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
You're not going to be out there.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
you know talking about it, so you're not going to
do the promotion Like I wrotethat book.
Let me talk about it?
Speaker 1 (19:42):
Yeah, exactly, that's funny.
So how long have you been onLinkedIn and have are you able
to use LinkedIn?
I know you're new to it, but isit something where you see as a
potential, like place to findclients, or is it more just
about just awareness andbuilding, you know,
relationships?
Speaker 2 (19:58):
Yeah, linkedin has surprisingly been one of the
exclusive ways that I've foundmy clients.
Actually, I've been on LinkedInsince college or whatever.
Right, I think I don't have ahuge following and I'm okay with
that.
It's not my goal for it.
I mean, of course, more isbetter, but it's not.
(20:24):
My goal in posting is toincrease my following.
It happened quite by accident.
I started posting my blog and Iwas like, well, I got to put it
on social media, I guess,otherwise, no one's ever going
to see it, and so I put it onLinkedIn and when I started
copywriting I had invited Iasked a few small business
owners that I knew.
But after that, the next clientsthat I had were people that I'd
previously known from mycorporate life or school or
(20:46):
things like that that saw myposts about what I was doing and
they reached out and they werelike hey, like I've been seeing
your posts, I see your writingsamples now, and like I think it
might be a good fit to worktogether, and so I was like,
like it's working.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
I'm on to something I'm on to something here.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
So I had actually almost given up on the blog at
one point last year, but then Istarted getting clients from it
and from LinkedIn and I was like, well, I should lean into this
more.
So I don't post a huge amount,I post two to three times per
week, but that's forghostwriting too.
I've found.
You know, those clients havecome through LinkedIn as well,
(21:28):
and actually someone that, um,I'm, you know, planning to work
with was like yeah, you justpopped up on my like for you
feed, basically Like we had noreal connection to each other.
He just saw my posts and I waslike, all right, well, we're
going to keep doing thisLinkedIn thing and keep reaching
out because it's working.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
No, it's amazing.
I mean you've done like theblog.
I don't know if it's all yourposts, but a lot of your posts
are like the blog series, so itmakes sense.
It's all like tied together.
So I feel like it works very.
It's very synchronous for likewhat you're doing and it makes a
(22:10):
lot of sense.
Thanks, yeah, what do you have?
I know you haven't done a lotof them, but have you the memoir
or business book?
Do you have like a preference?
Do you enjoy writing one morethan another, or is it kind of
the same process?
So it doesn't really matter.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
Yeah, I think what I'm focused on when I'm seeing
if a client is a good fit ismore it's going to sound
nebulous but we can dive into itis the vibe Making sure that
the client itself and I are agood fit together, because it's
a long and it's a closelyintertwined process.
(22:42):
And so I think if you'realigned on kind of your general
priorities and approach to workand things like that, and of
course you prefer interestingsubject matter, but to me it's
more important that I loveworking with the person than
what the subject actually is,because if you enjoy that and
(23:02):
they're excited about it, ifthey're excited about what
they're doing, then it's goingto be exciting to write the book
because they're excited aboutit.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
Okay, that makes sense.
I don't think I would havethought about that.
I thought I would have thought,if you'd asked me, I would have
guessed subject matter more sothan relationship.
But that's interesting thatit's really the other way around
.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
For me at least.
Other people might be different.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
Yeah, is this kind of something you see, like doing
for a while, like this kind oflike the path that you're on.
You feel like you've kind offigured it out and found it and
you'll do this for a while.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
I think so.
Yeah, it's in the words ofTaylor Swift.
I feel like there's been ainvisible string kind of pulling
me through to this point for along time.
I was just telling someone,like in high school I thought I
thought I was this math person,numbers person, whatever I want
to finance.
But my English teachers likebegged me, like please, please,
take the honors and the APcourses.
(23:55):
And I was like no, don't likeEnglish, not good at it, just
don't, I don't.
And they're like, no, but youare.
And I'm like I don't have timefor that, I'm so focused on my
sports and stuff, I don't, Idon't want to read and write.
And then so, yeah, it's funnyand ironic now, like they nailed
it.
And then, even in the corporateworld, like always, I loved
(24:23):
doing the documentation, thegovernment governance and
procedures and meeting minutesand sops.
Yeah, and everyone's like, well,you're crazy.
And I'm like, well, I like, Ilike writing.
And at the time I didn't knowany other ways that you could
like make good money likewriting, unless you were gonna
like be a lawyer.
And I contemplated on a fewdays so like, oh, maybe I should
go to law school.
And then that thought likequickly dissipated when I
(24:45):
thought of everything elseinvolved.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
So yeah, no, I mean it is interesting that teachers
they had they almost had theinsight that you didn't because
they could see it.
But sometimes it takes you awhile I think all of us kind of
go through that where peoplepoint stuff out to you You're
like, eh, you just kind ofdismiss it.
And then later on you're like Ithink I'm going to come back to
that.
I think I actually should trythat, or I'm good at that, or I
(25:07):
at least want to try it, see ifI'm good at it.
So that's fascinating that itwas really there the whole time.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
It was there and I think, yeah to your point.
We so often need other peopleto tell us and I actually I've
heard this on the past fewpodcasts that you've released
too Like we often don't see ourown strengths or realize that,
and we need other people to tellus what our strengths are,
because we don't believe it.
And um, and still working on,still working on that too.
(25:35):
That's.
That's part of the everevolving quest and also part of
that journey has been overcoming.
Like I said, I was like I don'tknow how to make money writing
unless I'm like a lawyer orsomething, right.
And it's overcoming thesocietal beliefs around creative
careers, I think, and I thinksince COVID and working online,
(25:58):
that started to shatter a littlebit, but people still have the
starving artist mentality andI've actually had a couple of
people say to me like, yeah, Iwould do, like I'd love to do,
what you do, but I have alifestyle that I need to
maintain.
I'm like, okay, well, so do I,and it's been fine.
(26:19):
Like I'm more than okay, right.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
They're like knocking your lifestyle Like mine is so
much better than yours, so it'sfine for you, but it would never
work for me.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
Yeah, I was like, wait a second, let's step back.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
That's funny.
No, you're right, it ischanging slowly.
Definitely, post-co rid of you.
They can and will get rid ofyou kind of anytime if that is
(26:59):
in their best interest and it'stheir business right, and
maximizing profits is their goaland that's on them.
It's not right or wrong, butit's true and so societally.
We were programmed myself for along time that there was that
safety in the paycheck.
You'd have it forever or untilyou left and I went through
layoffs several times but still,even though you see it and
(27:22):
experience it, I don't know italways still feels like distant
and you're like, oh well, thenext company will be different
or whatever.
So there's no, there is nosafety, it just it's not there.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
Right, yeah, anything you do is a risk.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
Get correct Right.
It's A life is a risk, right.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
Every day.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
Every day.
There's nothing inherentlytruly safe.
I mean some more than others,but right, it's all we're all
day to day.
Was it a challenge for youmoving from the corporate you
know bi-weekly or monthlypaycheck and insurance and
benefits and like kind ofeverything that goes with that
to because you obviously leftvoluntarily, you did your summer
but then you didn't go back?
Was that a big adjustment toget used to not having that?
Speaker 2 (28:02):
It's an interesting evolution.
No, but I always positionedmyself in a way that I did still
have steady income.
So even when I was working atthe family business, I still had
you know I was, I wasn'tworking as many hours and stuff
like that and I would purposelyhad backed it down.
So I adjusted, you know, Istarted saving a little more and
(28:25):
things like that.
I adjusted my spending and inmy mind, right, I was still
going back to corporate.
So I'm like well, I savedenough, I'm going back to
corporate.
It'll be fine and then I kept.
I ensured that I still hadsteady income even as I started
my business, and so I was doingthe copywriting simultaneously
(28:45):
with that when I first started.
And then I once I felt secureenough in that I actually
structured most of mycopywriting as retainers, so I
still had the comfort ofrecurring income and I realized
that's not always a possibility.
I did still have some projects,but it's all what you prefer as
(29:08):
copyright.
Some people prefer projectswhere they can do it, be done
and then take a break orwhatever, but for me I've always
structured it as retainerclients to have that consistent
income.
And actually I do still have acouple of retainer clients that
I work with, that I love workingwith, that I do in addition to
the ghostwriting, and so it's areally nice balance because
(29:30):
because, yeah, having just thelumpy income is something that I
think I would struggle with.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
Do you find it challenging with the
ghostwriting?
Obviously you said you get paidup front, which is, I'm
assuming, a fairly large sumsince it's such a big project.
Do you find it difficult, whenyou get a lump sum like that, to
then make it last If you'regetting paid for six months in
advance, like parsing it out?
Or have you figured out kind ofthe best way to manage that
(29:56):
part of it?
Speaker 2 (30:02):
Yeah.
So when I say upfront, I meanlike before the book is
published.
So I know I'm not dependent onbook sales, but we do spread out
the payments over the course ofthe project and so usually it's
kind of four quarters over overthe life of the project.
But totally flexible on thatOkay.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
Um, so that makes it easier.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
I would consider myself to be, besides my travel
habits, a fairly frugal persontoo.
So, yeah, it's been okay.
I realize the benefits of thefreedom and the time that I get
outweigh any money, but, to bequite honest, the abundance
(30:38):
mindset has come through andthat's all been fine too.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
So yeah, nice Um, and probably having the finance
background helps a little bittoo.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
Yeah, yeah, it doesn't hurt, I'll tell you that
.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
Uh, that's funny.
So this it's fascinating.
I really it's so educationalfor me.
I don't know much about theghostwriting process.
I've had people tell me that Ishould write a book and I'm like
, well, there's no way I wouldever do it.
Like someone would have towrite it for me.
Like I'm like I just I couldn'twrite in that form.
I can write content, maybe anemail, but like a book, like no,
no way.
So do you write screenplays?
Speaker 2 (31:23):
I have an idea for a screenplay.
I do not write screenplays butI do have a friend that writes
screenplays so I'm happy to passyou off to her.
There's a reason I stay out ofthe fiction world and fiction is
hard.
I think a lot of people thinkit's easier, but it's hard to
get it in the right story arcand everything and nonfiction.
I just stick to what peopletell me, their facts and their
stories.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
Yeah, you don't have to make it up.
Yeah, fiction is fascinatingand like, like you said, the
characters and the developmentand the details and having it
make sense, and then the plot,the story, like it's like a true
, a true art to like come upwith that stuff you know, just
from scratch.
Yeah, really fascinating.
So, as we finish up here, so wetalked about, or you mentioned,
sports and I've seen in yourpost talking about the Bears.
(31:59):
You live, I think, in theChicago, close to the Chicago
area.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
I do.
Speaker 1 (32:03):
What do you think the Bears?
What are the Bears going to do?
Speaker 2 (32:10):
Do you think they'll ever?
Will they ever figure it out?
Or will it just be dysfunctionforever?
You know they made a step inthe right direction by, you know
, making a-season change in thehead coach, which has never
happened before, but their stylewe.
So I you know I probably havefalse hope.
Uh, deep, deep, deep down, Ithink we're gonna be stuck in
this cycle forever unless wemake some drastic changes.
But this is this is a patternthat we have.
(32:33):
We hire a head coach, we do afirst round qb draft pick.
We hire a head coach.
We do a first round QB draftpick.
We hire a head coach, we do afirst round QB draft pick.
We never bolster the offensiveline.
I think we take care of a lotof surface things, but never
really root causes of things.
So I fear we'll be here a while.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
You also traded for Trubisky when you could have had
Mahomes.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
Yeah, yeah, well, let's not remind us of that.
But honestly, it worked outwell for Mahomes, so I'm happy
for him.
Speaker 1 (32:59):
Yeah, it's funny you mentioned that, because, not
that he's not great, but withoutAndy Reid, if he had gone to
the Bears and experienced theBears' dysfunction, yes, he
would still be good because ofhis talent and ability, but he
in no way would have three SuperBowls and be considered this on
the path to Hall of Fame andlike all that kind of stuff.
Like Andy Reid, I mean, ittakes two coach and quarterback,
(33:20):
obviously connected, but itworked.
Speaker 2 (33:23):
It did work out well for him yeah, I was telling
someone the other day I'm likeman, I just feel bad for every
quarterback that ends up on theBears and he was like well, I
don't really feel.
I mean, they're still makingmillions of dollars and I'm like
, okay, point taken, but it islike their livelihood in their
career and like, tell me a bearsquarterback.
That's like risen to fame afterbeing on the bears.
Speaker 1 (33:44):
Like I'll wait yeah, it's, it's been.
It's really interesting.
They just for such a greatsports town and they have some
iconic sports figures across thefranchises.
For whatever reason, right, thebears quarterback is just, it's
like a black hole forever yeah,it's a struggle someday.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
And then we, you know , we have the packers who, like,
can't miss with the quarterbackif they tried.
Speaker 1 (34:07):
So yeah, that's true, it's almost the, it's almost
the inverse.
Williams seems pretty good,though I think I mean he's shown
signs of being okay.
Obviously dysfunction at coacharound him and they've lost
games they should have won andstuff, but I think if he has, I
mean they have some talentaround him.
Like you said, the offensiveline needs help.
Defense is solid.
(34:27):
So I think if they can bring inI assume they're going to hire
an offensive coach I think thatwould make the most sense.
Right, and if they can get himsome stability and play calling
and system and give him sometime, I think he'll be fine.
I think he has.
I don't know if he's going tobe as great as a number one pick
should be, but I don't know.
I think he has enough tools andhe's so young.
I think with the right systemhe eventually can figure it out.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
Yeah, I like Williams a lot, I liked Fields.
I mean I've liked a lot of thevarious quarterbacks when they
come in and, quite honestly,don't fault them.
I don't fault them, I thinkthey just got put into the
dysfunction.
But I think our offensivecoordinator, who's now the
interim head coach, I think he'sdone a good.
I mean he made the adjustmentsagainst the Lions that we needed
to make to be.
He's made the adjustments everytime in the second half to put
(35:10):
us in a position to be in thesegames.
So I think he knows what he'sdoing.
So I'm hopeful that williamsand now the ocb in the interim
can hopefully we'll.
We'll start to get the bandtogether, because our defense is
never a problem.
They're always there and wehave a great receiving core, so
we'll be okay yeah, nice.
Speaker 1 (35:28):
Do you think they'll get rid of poles, or you think
they'll let him pick the nextcoach?
Speaker 2 (35:31):
uh, I think they already actually said uh on the
news here a few days ago thatthey're letting him pick the
next coach.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
Okay, because I know with war, because with warren
being in charge I kind ofthought that he would want, like
, because polls was there beforewarren.
I think that usually they don'tlike.
They usually like their ownpeople everywhere.
So I think that'll beinteresting.
Maybe they have a goodrelationship, that he would
allow him to say, but a lot oftimes, because I think the lions
are going to be the blueprintfor, or they should be the
(35:58):
blueprint for, dysfunctionalfranchises because, like they
took a different approach.
They brought in holmes andcampbell.
They're on the same page.
They had a plan.
They knew it was going to bebad for a while, which it was,
and then now look where they arein three years.
So it's like, if detroit canfigure it like, I think that has
to give hope to like the Jets,the Bears, maybe Jacksonville,
(36:20):
like teams that are just kind ofhistorically kind of bad all
the time, or at least havedysfunction all the time.
If you get the right people inplace and then allow them to
work, like with the right vision, like it can work.
But I just don't think teams doenough planning and foresight
and they make they just don'tmake great long-term decisions
yeah, yeah what sports do youmention?
(36:41):
sports like?
Speaker 2 (36:41):
what sports did you play like growing up, high
school and stuff yeah, I, um, Iplayed field hockey, basketball
and softball nice, so those weremy three, and then I I coached
them when I was in college andslightly after graduating
college as well.
Speaker 1 (36:57):
Nice, did you play in college too?
Speaker 2 (36:59):
I did not.
No, okay, yeah, I knew schoolwas going to be a big lift and I
really wanted to go to NotreDame and obviously that's super
competitive for sports there, soschool was plenty.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
No, we were just talking about that the other day
.
Would you?
I'll ask you.
So let's say you could havewalked on at Notre Dame, it
doesn't matter the sport.
Would you rather walk on at amajor, high-level D1 program but
never play, so just always be apractice player and on the
bench?
Or would you rather go to a D2school where no one would ever
see you but you, like you, wouldplay and be a contributing
(37:36):
member like most of your time?
Speaker 2 (37:39):
Yeah, I think my answer again is going to be
neither of those.
I did actually almost I did thefirst step of trying to walk
onto the.
Notre Dame softball team.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
Nice.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
And then my own self-doubts got in the way and
they invited me back to continuetrying out and I pulled myself
out.
Speaker 1 (37:59):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (38:00):
Which is actually a microcosm of that solopreneur
mindset that I mentioned, isthat self-doubt.
And now I never know how thatwould have ended up, because but
part of it was I don't know ifI'll ever play and school is
going to be really hard.
But as I was going through theprocess, you know I could have
done the D2, d3 thing, probablysome D1 places, but I knew
(38:24):
that's not what was going tocarry me, especially at that
time for women's sports.
I knew that's not what wasgoing to carry me after
graduation.
So finding the school that wasthe right fit for me was my
priority.
And then if the sports workedout, that was great, if not,
that's fine too.
Speaker 1 (38:41):
Nice Gosh.
Now we need a sliding doors ofwhat would have happened if you
went back.
Speaker 2 (38:45):
I know seriously.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
Yeah, that's fine.
I don't know.
I think I would go.
I played D3 forever ago, a yearof D3 basketball, but there was
no scholarship.
I was paying to go there andthen I just did basketball right
, and it wasn't that much funand we weren't that good and I'd
kind of just burn out becauseI'd been playing my whole life.
But I think if I'd gotten ascholarship or if it had been D2
(39:08):
, it would have been different.
But I think I would rather goto a smaller school and play.
I mean, I didn't really sitmuch in most of the sports I
played.
I just don't think, even at D1and travel and all the bells and
whistles you get, if I just hadto sit and watch I don't think
I could do it.
And it's a huge commitment tospread that yeah for sure, and I
(39:28):
get it, you won't have that atthe smaller school, but the NCAA
tournament and all that kind ofstuff.
It's an interesting argument ordebate, I guess, if you're, if
you have that choice.
So, as we finish up any partingthoughts and then let people
know if they're interested inyour work or your blog, or how
to find you, your website,linkedin, you know how can they
(39:49):
do so.
Speaker 2 (39:50):
Yeah, any parting thought I really liked.
One of your guests the otherday said can you just be kind?
I think mine would be centeringaround the joy.
Don't get too caught up in theminutia and take a step back and
make sure that you're findingthe joy in your journey, and if
you're not, then I'm a primeexample of the curvy path that
you can take to eventually getthere.
(40:10):
You're not.
It's easy to get stuck whenyou're in the day to day, and so
make sure that you have joy inyour journey and, if not, start
to make the adjustments to findit.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
That's great.
Speaker 2 (40:22):
But as far as finding me, yeah, I'm on LinkedIn.
I'm also on Instagram, which Idon't use very much, and my
website is LinkedIn.
Find me there, connect with me,message me Instagram.
You can find me there too.
You're going to get the samecontent, basically, that you got
on LinkedIn, or I'll send yousome funny reels, maybe, but
LinkedIn is the place to find me.
Speaker 1 (40:43):
Awesome.
Yeah Well, I'll link both yourLinkedIn and your website in the
show notes.
It was great meeting you.
It's the first time we'vegotten a chance to speak.
I love your story.
I really appreciate all yourinsight into your process and
your work.
And continued success to you.
Speaker 2 (40:56):
Thank you.
Thank you so much for having meand, yes, it was great speaking
in person.
Speaker 1 (41:01):
Awesome.
See you, Jamie.
Speaker 2 (41:02):
All right, see ya.
Welcome to the Real you Podcast.
This is episode 27, and thiswill be the first one released
in 2025.
I'm David Young, your host.
I'm a LinkedIn content andbusiness coach.
I help coaches and solopreneursgrow their businesses through
better storytelling and contentcreation.
I launched this podcast inMarch of 24 to spotlight
interesting people doing amazingthings, and today I'm joined by
Jamie Dykstra, a nonfictionbook ghostwriter who moved from
(00:21):
the world of finance andspreadsheets, which are two of
my favorite things, to tales oftriumph and adventure.
We'll discuss her journey, howshe uses LinkedIn, how she
fosters authentic relationshipbuilding her focus on joy in the
writing process and the.
This is a challenge for all ofus ever-evolving quest to master
her mindset as a solopreneur,which is a very real challenge.
Jamie, thanks so much formaking time for me and coming on
(00:43):
the show today.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Thanks so much for having me.
I'm excited to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Yeah, absolutely so.
How did you get from financeand accounting and spreadsheets
to writing?
That's not a common it's not.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
It was definitely a journey.
I get this question a lot and Ithink a lot of people thought
one day I was just like, oh, I'mgoing to be a writer, that
would have been easier.
But yeah, my undergraduatedegree is in accounting.
I have a master's in finance.
After college I joined thecorporate world and I got a job
in corporate finance, which Iloved.
(01:17):
I loved the people that Iworked with.
I got to learn a lot.
I also got to dabble in someproject management and ended up
becoming a certified PMP.
So then I started to focuslater on in my corporate career
on kind of project managementand operations.
I love the people aspect, Ilove coordinating things and
organizing and all of thatbecause while I liked
(01:38):
spreadsheets, the people kind oflit me up and that's what I
enjoyed the most.
But then April of 2022, I waslike I need a break.
I need a corporate break.
I had had some greatexperiences, but at that point
in time it just felt aligned totake a step back and I started
working at small, local familybusiness here and I was just
(02:01):
going to do that for the summerand, you know, get some income
still and then rejoin thecorporate world after summer was
over.
It was going to be my adultsummer break.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
Summer of Jamie.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Yeah, the summer, I think I did term it that way at
one point.
I got to the end of the summerand I was like, nope, don't want
to go back to the corporateworld.
I just, yeah, it just felt likethis huge weight every time I
thought about it.
I loved the freedom I haddeveloped over the summer and it
was hard to go back after that.
(02:32):
So I was like, well, the onlysolution that I know is to start
my own business.
So I honestly kind of backedinto it.
So I had the idea I want tostart a business, but I have no
idea what I want to do.
One of my really good friendswho I'd also worked with she was
like you're really good atwriting.
Why don't you maybe like starta blog or something, see if you
can do some affiliate income orwhatever and see where it goes?
(02:55):
And I was like, well, yeah,like that's, that's a good idea,
but I have no idea what towrite about.
At which point she listed like10 different blog type series
that I could do and I was like,okay, I see your point.
So I started the blog.
I hired a coach.
Rasa DeSalvo was my businesscoach that I hired.
She's phenomenal.
I joined a mastermind, saw thepower of coaching, actually
(03:18):
endeavored down the coachingpath for a while and then she
was like, hey, you know, youkind of of kind of like
abandoned the writing thing thatyou wanted to do and I was like
, oh yeah, you're right.
And so one day last fall we werebrainstorming like ways to make
money writing and one of theways that had come up in the
brainstorm that she hadmentioned actually was
copywriting.
(03:39):
And I was like because I mean,to be honest, I knew I was good
at writing I had no idea waysyou could make money writing
besides writing your own bookand selling it.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Right.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
She mentioned copywriting and she kind of gave
me a brief overview and I waslike, yeah, it sounds good, I'm
going to do it.
And she was like, well, youknow, I can sit with that, like
I worked in corporate, I canwrite emails with the best of
them.
And I just decided that waskind of what I wanted to do.
I joined a course.
I invited people I had threeclients within the first week of
small business owners that Iknew and so I was like, well,
(04:10):
I'm a copywriter and now I gotto figure it out, and so that
was how I got the traction in mybusiness.
I just started to get moreclients from there.
And then I learned aboutghostwriting.
End of last year, earlier thisyear, and one of the coaches in
my copywriting course he had alot of ghostwriters were
copywriters in their previouslife.
Learn more about ghostwriting.
I was like that is the stuff.
(04:32):
Like I've always wanted towrite books, but I love getting
to tell other people's storiesand helping them share their
lessons.
It just it felt awesome and sothat's that's how I.
That was my long and windingpath from finance to being a
ghost writer.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
Well, it makes I mean there's there's some logic
there.
You didn't just you know, likejust up and quit and be like I'm
going to write like it kind ofit kind of evolved, you know,
over time.
That's interesting.
I hadn't thought aboutcopywriting as a like segue into
ghost writing.
I think I would.
(05:10):
I don't think I would have putthat together, but that's
interesting, so it makes.
I mean, it does make sense.
What do you write?
Speaker 2 (05:13):
nonfiction books.
So is that business likebiographies?
Yeah, it can be a whole host ofthings.
So memoirs is a big one.
Business books, of course, is abig one, and that doesn't have
to be a biography.
You know people, especiallyconsultants, coaches, whatever
have frameworks and systems thatwork, that they can put in a
book, and of course they'resharing their stories along the
way.
But it's not technically abiography.
(05:33):
Personal development books fallin that realm as well, and
actually travel books too, whichI hadn't really thought about.
But you see all my posts andthe travel variety definitely
interests me, and a lot of thoseare still technically memoirs
but with the travel focus, andthere's a lot of good lessons
that come out of travel as well,and so that's been a really
interesting one to kind of diveinto as well.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
Is that?
Did you cause?
You do post a lot of picturesabout traveling is?
Was that related to the booksor you were kind of doing that
on your own then, that kind oftied into the books after the
fact?
Speaker 2 (06:06):
I was doing that on my own the summer of Jamie.
I was like, well, I got toembrace it, right Going
everywhere.
Yeah, I actually.
I traveled like a normal amountbeforehand but.
I started to travel more thenand I had some friends in
Wyoming that I mean it's like asix hour drive to anywhere get
out West, and so they are alwayswilling to meet me places and
(06:28):
they would be like, hey, meet usin Park City and I'm like, okay
, so I'll just hop on a plane.
Really, the traveling kind ofstarted after I left corporate
and this year I was likeintentionally trying to
reconnect with some collegefriends and stuff, and one of
them lives in California,Another one lives in the Philly
(06:49):
area and so just naturallytrying to connect with people
lended itself to traveling.
And so it kind of happened, byaccident, to be quite honest,
and then it was happening somuch that this year I was like I
want to travel like every twomonths at least.
And it worked out and it was alot of fun.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
Nice.
Now do you write, I assume,even when you're on the road, do
you still write, or do you usethat time to kind of get away
from it?
Speaker 2 (07:09):
It depends on the trip.
So if it's like a long weekend,I'll usually try to work ahead
and just totally disconnect.
But if it's you know the sevento ten day variety then I do end
up working.
But I'll usually only log infor two, three hours in the
morning, knock it out.
Usually the other people are.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
We don't have plans first thing in the morning
unless you know, a Yellowstoneday can take the entire day and
more.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
I will work on those longer trips.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
Gotcha, was it hard to find the first ghostwriting
client.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Yes, um, I, I ghostwriting is a higher ticket
service and so getting someoneto invest in that and of course
you don't you don't charge thehighest amount right away, you
charge some more intro pricing,but but still it's, it's an
investment of time and money and, um, and the first one, you
(08:03):
know, yeah, hey you're my firstbut I did hired a ghostwriting
coach as well, which was, uh,ryan guthrie is my ghostwriting
coach too.
I can't speak highly enough ofeither of my coaches, um, and
and he was a great help in thattoo, because when I'd get on
discovery calls I'd be like, hey, I have this coach that's done
this for years and he's he'sgonna be everything giving
(08:27):
feedback, detailed comments andthat gave a lot of comfort and
really helped with kind ofsecuring that first client.
So you're not really justgetting someone doing it for the
first time Like you're gettinga seasoned professional like
this.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
I'm not just going to wing it.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
Yeah, no, it gives it kind of validated by what
you're doing.
So I mean that makes a lot ofsense.
I'm assuming now that you'vedone it multiple times, even if
you still have a coach, you haveenough kind of credentials and
experience where it's notprobably not as big a deal now,
I'm assuming.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Yeah, yeah, I'm definitely still early on in the
journey because you know, books, books take some time to work
through and I do still have mycoach having continued.
I told him he stuck with me fora while just because it's the
quickest way to learn Right andI feel good about giving people
that value.
But yes, the first couple ofprojects especially as with any
business venture it's like hugelearning curve and learn so much
(09:19):
from from those to feel moreconfident going into the next
ones.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
Yes, yeah, for sure, what I know.
It probably varies depending onthe client and the topic, but
typically how long does it takeyou to write kind of the start,
start, start of a project, toend a project like what is?
Again, I know it varies butlike what's a ballpark of, like
what you kind of anticipate?
Speaker 2 (09:41):
Yeah, yeah, I typically tell people that for
our time together for theghostwriting it's a four to six
month process for just thewriting and that is like you
said.
It depends.
It's varied client to clientand they kind of get to drive it
.
Some people want to meet once aweek, some people want to meet
once every other week and itdepends on the length of the
(10:02):
book and kind of their journeyas well.
It can go longer.
I would say it would not goshorter because we don't want to
sacrifice quality for speed.
But yeah, it kind of depends onthe client, which is why, like
I said, I just learned about itearlier this year.
So I'm quite honestly workingthrough my first couple of
projects still, but I've learnedan immense amount from it.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
Gotcha, do you have a set writing process where, like
you, always write at a certaintime each day, or do you vary,
or kind of how do you like?
How do you set that up?
Speaker 2 (10:31):
I do, and that's been a journey as well, to kind of
figure out what works best.
But I'm an early riser and so Iusually log in by six and
that's when I do the bookwriting stuff.
So the really deep writing I dofirst thing in the morning.
My brain is freshest, no one'sbugging me, I'm not getting
emails and phone calls and stufflike that, and so I do my deep
(10:54):
writing from like that six toeight or nine time frame.
And yeah, for ghost writing italso actually depends on the
type of book too.
So, like business and personaldevelopment books, we'll do an
interview with a client and thendo the writing for that
particular interview after it'sdone and continue the cadence
(11:16):
For a memoir.
It's different because therecan be things that come out as
they tell their story thatreally impact the story, and so
you don't want to be writing asyou go and then having to try to
backtrack to make it morecohesive, and so the writing
strategy can change a little bit.
But for me personally, yeah,it's lighting that candle with
my cup of coffee at 6 am.
(11:38):
Right now I have like mycolored Christmas tree next to
me.
I got to get all the ambience,and then I listen to the
recording and then get to me.
I got to get all the ambienceand then I listened to the
recording and then get towriting.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
Nice.
Do you have a goal then with atwo to three hour chunk to get
accomplished, or you just usemore of a time thing, like
whatever?
You kind of get done in thatway.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
Yeah, I usually try to and again, it depends on the
structure of the book.
I usually try to get onechapter done during that time,
so it's cohesive and it's notlike I stopped and started in
the middle of it.
Or if it's got, you know,shorter sections, I'll set a
goal for you know, threesections or whatever to get
through.
So it's mostly my goal iscohesiveness and however long it
(12:17):
takes to get through thatcohesive chunk is what I'll
devote to it.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
Do you set?
How often then are you sending?
Sending drafts or copies to theclient?
Speaker 2 (12:26):
That's somewhat client dependent too and
obviously book dependent,because the memoir, all of that
kind of comes at the end.
But definitely in every casethe client will get the first,
at least in my process.
Every ghostwriter is different.
Client gets the first 20 to 25pages.
Make sure that I'm capturingtheir voice and the tone and
(12:46):
everything that they want,because basically as a
ghostwriter you have to pretendto be them writing it and that's
a journey that I mean the firstdraft is it's.
You're not going for perfectionon the first draft, right.
It's a journey of learningdifferent styles and tones and
creative perspectives andbecause for the author, like
(13:07):
it's their, it's their baby,like a book is a bucket list
thing for a lot of people.
So it's working through some ofthat and then kind of gauging
from there how to go afterwards.
Giving too many chunks toofrequently in the first draft
can be problematic because it issuch a work in progress.
So it's just kind of sometimesthat'll be it.
If the first 20 to 25 pages islike yeah, like we're on a good
(13:30):
track, then probably just takeit from there and keep writing
to make sure I can move thingsaround as needed in the writing
process.
But if there's more refinementthen I'm happy to you know, get
more sections later on to refine.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
Makes sense?
Do you have them submit emailsor papers or content creation
that shows their writing?
So you kind of it kind of givesyou an insight into, like, how
they write, or how do you goabout capturing their voice
through writing.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Yeah, I usually don't ask them to submit things, but
I find them on social media.
I see what they've posted.
I look for talks that they'vesocial media.
I see what they've posted.
I look for talks that they'vedone on YouTube or podcasts that
they've been on things likethat and to really try to
because yes, there's adifference in literary voice and
speaking voice but really if Ican listen to at least their
speaking voice, then I get afeel for words that they use and
(14:20):
cadence and things like that.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
Gotcha, and you talked about the joy in writing.
Obviously it's something youhave to enjoy to do, certainly
for any long period of time.
Is it something you're kind ofconsciously and mindful about,
like the joy in writing, or likehow do you, how do you kind of
manifest the joy part when itcomes to writing?
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Yeah, um, when I talk about the joy in writing, I'm
usually actually my goal is tomake the process the most joyful
for my clients that it can be.
Um, of course, I want to findyou know the joy myself, but my
focus is the joy in in theprocess for other people,
because I think so often whatholds people back from writing a
(15:02):
book is themselves is how muchtime it's going to take, how
much energy drain it's going tobe.
How am I going to fit this in?
What am I going to write about?
I don't know where to start,and so I not only want to help
them to make that happen, but Iwant it to be fun for them.
Right?
A book is we're spending a lotof time together.
During that time.
(15:23):
I just I just wrapped up aproject and we we developed like
we spent a lot of time togethergot to know each other really
well and so I want people tocome to their meetings and be
like excited about coming to themeetings and not be like, oh
man, this is another commitment.
I don't know, and that's reallywhat my focus is is maybe the
(15:45):
joy in the process for theclient and loving how it's going
.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
Yeah, no, that makes sense.
Is that part of therelationship building that you
mentioned in the time thatyou're spending together?
And then, obviously, that'sonly going to help you know,
whether it's referrals orrecommendations or testimonials
right, that's obviously a keypart, you know, to all of that.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
For sure.
Yeah, the relationship buildingis so paramount for really
anything.
I mean LinkedIn's.
I've met incredible peoplethrough LinkedIn this year, you
being one of them.
That's kind of how therelationship starts.
Is that genuine outreach oflike?
I'm not looking to get anythingout of this and if something
comes out of it, that'sfantastic.
(16:26):
But I really like you and yourbrand and what you stand for and
I'd like to connect and I thinkthat starts a solid foundation
of like I'm not just atransactional person, like I
genuinely I'm excited about whatyou do and I'm excited about
helping with your book and then,yeah, it's holding that space.
Being a ghostwriter is a veryyou become deeply involved with
(16:47):
that person because a book itcan be a cathartic process and,
depending on the topic of thebook too, it's a vulnerable one
as well, as people kind of tellyou their stories and what
they've learned from it and gothrough their own journey as
well, and like reminding people,like yes, your story is worth
telling and people need to hearit, and things like that.
(17:08):
So having the authenticrelationship and not just the
I'm here to get in and out andready to move on, is really
important.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
No, it makes sense.
You had an interesting postit's been maybe two or three
weeks ago that I hadn't thoughtabout until I read it about kind
of the mystery of theghostwriter and the fact that
you don't get any credit.
You're not mentioned anywhere.
It's completely anonymous andlike kind of the psychology in
that.
So talk about that a little bit.
I thought that was fascinating.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
Yeah, that's something people get caught up
on it and, quite honestly, Iknow I said I just got into
ghostwriting earlier this yearbut I'd heard people talk about
it.
I didn't really know what itwas like on a writing podcast of
hey, I write books for people,but I just write it and then I
just I could never wrap my headaround it until I guess this
(17:57):
year, like the penny dropped.
And to someone who's not doingit, I totally understand it.
Like hey, you're doing all ofthis work and like you, you
don't get any credit for it likeI don't understand, but for me
it's really a reward.
I mean, first of all, I justpractically as a ghostwriter
you're compensated up front, solike I'm being paid for doing
(18:19):
the work.
That's all that, really, from abusiness perspective that's.
It's a fair practice, right?
It's not unfair that my name'snot being mentioned, like I'm
getting paid for the work and wemove on.
But more than that, the joy andthe fulfilling and meaningful
part for me is helping otherpeople to tell their story, and
(18:40):
it doesn't.
It truly is the author's book.
I'm just physically helpingthem to put it on paper and
structure it, but it's theirstories, it's their teachings,
it's all their content.
So it should be their name onthe cover, right?
It's their brainchild and I'mjust physically helping to put
words on paper for them, and soI think that's something that
(19:03):
people don't think about whenthey ask.
The question is not really me,and I'm just happy to be able to
help people make an impact inthe world through writing their
book.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
No, I mean, that's a great, great way to approach it.
Could they Is it their choice?
Like, could they say you knowghost written by Jamie Dykstra,
if they wanted to, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
It's absolutely the way my NDAs are structured, is
it's author's discretion howthey want to acknowledge so they
can put an, they can dowhatever they want with it.
I'm just, you know, not goingto be out there.
You know, talking about it.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
You're not going to be out there.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
you know talking about it, so you're not going to
do the promotion Like I wrotethat book.
Let me talk about it?
Speaker 1 (19:42):
Yeah, exactly, that's funny.
So how long have you been onLinkedIn and have are you able
to use LinkedIn?
I know you're new to it, but isit something where you see as a
potential, like place to findclients, or is it more just
about just awareness andbuilding, you know,
relationships?
Speaker 2 (19:58):
Yeah, linkedin has surprisingly been one of the
exclusive ways that I've foundmy clients.
Actually, I've been on LinkedInsince college or whatever.
Right, I think I don't have ahuge following and I'm okay with
that.
It's not my goal for it.
I mean, of course, more isbetter, but it's not.
(20:24):
My goal in posting is toincrease my following.
It happened quite by accident.
I started posting my blog and Iwas like, well, I got to put it
on social media, I guess,otherwise, no one's ever going
to see it, and so I put it onLinkedIn and when I started
copywriting I had invited Iasked a few small business
owners that I knew.
But after that, the next clientsthat I had were people that I'd
previously known from mycorporate life or school or
(20:46):
things like that that saw myposts about what I was doing and
they reached out and they werelike hey, like I've been seeing
your posts, I see your writingsamples now, and like I think it
might be a good fit to worktogether, and so I was like,
like it's working.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
I'm on to something I'm on to something here.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
So I had actually almost given up on the blog at
one point last year, but then Istarted getting clients from it
and from LinkedIn and I was like, well, I should lean into this
more.
So I don't post a huge amount,I post two to three times per
week, but that's forghostwriting too.
I've found.
You know, those clients havecome through LinkedIn as well,
(21:28):
and actually someone that, um,I'm, you know, planning to work
with was like yeah, you justpopped up on my like for you
feed, basically Like we had noreal connection to each other.
He just saw my posts and I waslike, all right, well, we're
going to keep doing thisLinkedIn thing and keep reaching
out because it's working.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
No, it's amazing.
I mean you've done like theblog.
I don't know if it's all yourposts, but a lot of your posts
are like the blog series, so itmakes sense.
It's all like tied together.
So I feel like it works very.
It's very synchronous for likewhat you're doing and it makes a
(22:10):
lot of sense.
Thanks, yeah, what do you have?
I know you haven't done a lotof them, but have you the memoir
or business book?
Do you have like a preference?
Do you enjoy writing one morethan another, or is it kind of
the same process?
So it doesn't really matter.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
Yeah, I think what I'm focused on when I'm seeing
if a client is a good fit ismore it's going to sound
nebulous but we can dive into itis the vibe Making sure that
the client itself and I are agood fit together, because it's
a long and it's a closelyintertwined process.
(22:42):
And so I think if you'realigned on kind of your general
priorities and approach to workand things like that, and of
course you prefer interestingsubject matter, but to me it's
more important that I loveworking with the person than
what the subject actually is,because if you enjoy that and
(23:02):
they're excited about it, ifthey're excited about what
they're doing, then it's goingto be exciting to write the book
because they're excited aboutit.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
Okay, that makes sense.
I don't think I would havethought about that.
I thought I would have thought,if you'd asked me, I would have
guessed subject matter more sothan relationship.
But that's interesting thatit's really the other way around
.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
For me at least.
Other people might be different.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
Yeah, is this kind of something you see, like doing
for a while, like this kind oflike the path that you're on.
You feel like you've kind offigured it out and found it and
you'll do this for a while.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
I think so.
Yeah, it's in the words ofTaylor Swift.
I feel like there's been ainvisible string kind of pulling
me through to this point for along time.
I was just telling someone,like in high school I thought I
thought I was this math person,numbers person, whatever I want
to finance.
But my English teachers likebegged me, like please, please,
take the honors and the APcourses.
(23:55):
And I was like no, don't likeEnglish, not good at it, just
don't, I don't.
And they're like, no, but youare.
And I'm like I don't have timefor that, I'm so focused on my
sports and stuff, I don't, Idon't want to read and write.
And then so, yeah, it's funnyand ironic now, like they nailed
it.
And then, even in the corporateworld, like always, I loved
(24:23):
doing the documentation, thegovernment governance and
procedures and meeting minutesand sops.
Yeah, and everyone's like, well,you're crazy.
And I'm like, well, I like, Ilike writing.
And at the time I didn't knowany other ways that you could
like make good money likewriting, unless you were gonna
like be a lawyer.
And I contemplated on a fewdays so like, oh, maybe I should
go to law school.
And then that thought likequickly dissipated when I
(24:45):
thought of everything elseinvolved.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
So yeah, no, I mean it is interesting that teachers
they had they almost had theinsight that you didn't because
they could see it.
But sometimes it takes you awhile I think all of us kind of
go through that where peoplepoint stuff out to you You're
like, eh, you just kind ofdismiss it.
And then later on you're like Ithink I'm going to come back to
that.
I think I actually should trythat, or I'm good at that, or I
(25:07):
at least want to try it, see ifI'm good at it.
So that's fascinating that itwas really there the whole time.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
It was there and I think, yeah to your point.
We so often need other peopleto tell us and I actually I've
heard this on the past fewpodcasts that you've released
too Like we often don't see ourown strengths or realize that,
and we need other people to tellus what our strengths are,
because we don't believe it.
And um, and still working on,still working on that too.
(25:35):
That's.
That's part of the everevolving quest and also part of
that journey has been overcoming.
Like I said, I was like I don'tknow how to make money writing
unless I'm like a lawyer orsomething, right.
And it's overcoming thesocietal beliefs around creative
careers, I think, and I thinksince COVID and working online,
(25:58):
that started to shatter a littlebit, but people still have the
starving artist mentality andI've actually had a couple of
people say to me like, yeah, Iwould do, like I'd love to do,
what you do, but I have alifestyle that I need to
maintain.
I'm like, okay, well, so do I,and it's been fine.
(26:19):
Like I'm more than okay, right.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
They're like knocking your lifestyle Like mine is so
much better than yours, so it'sfine for you, but it would never
work for me.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
Yeah, I was like, wait a second, let's step back.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
That's funny.
No, you're right, it ischanging slowly.
Definitely, post-co rid of you.
They can and will get rid ofyou kind of anytime if that is
(26:59):
in their best interest and it'stheir business right, and
maximizing profits is their goaland that's on them.
It's not right or wrong, butit's true and so societally.
We were programmed myself for along time that there was that
safety in the paycheck.
You'd have it forever or untilyou left and I went through
layoffs several times but still,even though you see it and
(27:22):
experience it, I don't know italways still feels like distant
and you're like, oh well, thenext company will be different
or whatever.
So there's no, there is nosafety, it just it's not there.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
Right, yeah, anything you do is a risk.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
Get correct Right.
It's A life is a risk, right.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
Every day.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
Every day.
There's nothing inherentlytruly safe.
I mean some more than others,but right, it's all we're all
day to day.
Was it a challenge for youmoving from the corporate you
know bi-weekly or monthlypaycheck and insurance and
benefits and like kind ofeverything that goes with that
to because you obviously leftvoluntarily, you did your summer
but then you didn't go back?
Was that a big adjustment toget used to not having that?
Speaker 2 (28:02):
It's an interesting evolution.
No, but I always positionedmyself in a way that I did still
have steady income.
So even when I was working atthe family business, I still had
you know I was, I wasn'tworking as many hours and stuff
like that and I would purposelyhad backed it down.
So I adjusted, you know, Istarted saving a little more and
(28:25):
things like that.
I adjusted my spending and inmy mind, right, I was still
going back to corporate.
So I'm like well, I savedenough, I'm going back to
corporate.
It'll be fine and then I kept.
I ensured that I still hadsteady income even as I started
my business, and so I was doingthe copywriting simultaneously
(28:45):
with that when I first started.
And then I once I felt secureenough in that I actually
structured most of mycopywriting as retainers, so I
still had the comfort ofrecurring income and I realized
that's not always a possibility.
I did still have some projects,but it's all what you prefer as
(29:08):
copyright.
Some people prefer projectswhere they can do it, be done
and then take a break orwhatever, but for me I've always
structured it as retainerclients to have that consistent
income.
And actually I do still have acouple of retainer clients that
I work with, that I love workingwith, that I do in addition to
the ghostwriting, and so it's areally nice balance because
(29:30):
because, yeah, having just thelumpy income is something that I
think I would struggle with.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
Do you find it challenging with the
ghostwriting?
Obviously you said you get paidup front, which is, I'm
assuming, a fairly large sumsince it's such a big project.
Do you find it difficult, whenyou get a lump sum like that, to
then make it last If you'regetting paid for six months in
advance, like parsing it out?
Or have you figured out kind ofthe best way to manage that
(29:56):
part of it?
Speaker 2 (30:02):
Yeah.
So when I say upfront, I meanlike before the book is
published.
So I know I'm not dependent onbook sales, but we do spread out
the payments over the course ofthe project and so usually it's
kind of four quarters over overthe life of the project.
But totally flexible on thatOkay.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
Um, so that makes it easier.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
I would consider myself to be, besides my travel
habits, a fairly frugal persontoo.
So, yeah, it's been okay.
I realize the benefits of thefreedom and the time that I get
outweigh any money, but, to bequite honest, the abundance
(30:38):
mindset has come through andthat's all been fine too.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
So yeah, nice Um, and probably having the finance
background helps a little bittoo.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
Yeah, yeah, it doesn't hurt, I'll tell you that
.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
Uh, that's funny.
So this it's fascinating.
I really it's so educationalfor me.
I don't know much about theghostwriting process.
I've had people tell me that Ishould write a book and I'm like
, well, there's no way I wouldever do it.
Like someone would have towrite it for me.
Like I'm like I just I couldn'twrite in that form.
I can write content, maybe anemail, but like a book, like no,
no way.
So do you write screenplays?
Speaker 2 (31:23):
I have an idea for a screenplay.
I do not write screenplays butI do have a friend that writes
screenplays so I'm happy to passyou off to her.
There's a reason I stay out ofthe fiction world and fiction is
hard.
I think a lot of people thinkit's easier, but it's hard to
get it in the right story arcand everything and nonfiction.
I just stick to what peopletell me, their facts and their
stories.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
Yeah, you don't have to make it up.
Yeah, fiction is fascinatingand like, like you said, the
characters and the developmentand the details and having it
make sense, and then the plot,the story, like it's like a true
, a true art to like come upwith that stuff you know, just
from scratch.
Yeah, really fascinating.
So, as we finish up here, so wetalked about, or you mentioned,
sports and I've seen in yourpost talking about the Bears.
(31:59):
You live, I think, in theChicago, close to the Chicago
area.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
I do.
Speaker 1 (32:03):
What do you think the Bears?
What are the Bears going to do?
Speaker 2 (32:10):
Do you think they'll ever?
Will they ever figure it out?
Or will it just be dysfunctionforever?
You know they made a step inthe right direction by, you know
, making a-season change in thehead coach, which has never
happened before, but their stylewe.
So I you know I probably havefalse hope.
Uh, deep, deep, deep down, Ithink we're gonna be stuck in
this cycle forever unless wemake some drastic changes.
But this is this is a patternthat we have.
(32:33):
We hire a head coach, we do afirst round qb draft pick.
We hire a head coach.
We do a first round QB draftpick.
We hire a head coach, we do afirst round QB draft pick.
We never bolster the offensiveline.
I think we take care of a lotof surface things, but never
really root causes of things.
So I fear we'll be here a while.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
You also traded for Trubisky when you could have had
Mahomes.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
Yeah, yeah, well, let's not remind us of that.
But honestly, it worked outwell for Mahomes, so I'm happy
for him.
Speaker 1 (32:59):
Yeah, it's funny you mentioned that, because, not
that he's not great, but withoutAndy Reid, if he had gone to
the Bears and experienced theBears' dysfunction, yes, he
would still be good because ofhis talent and ability, but he
in no way would have three SuperBowls and be considered this on
the path to Hall of Fame andlike all that kind of stuff.
Like Andy Reid, I mean, ittakes two coach and quarterback,
(33:20):
obviously connected, but itworked.
Speaker 2 (33:23):
It did work out well for him yeah, I was telling
someone the other day I'm likeman, I just feel bad for every
quarterback that ends up on theBears and he was like well, I
don't really feel.
I mean, they're still makingmillions of dollars and I'm like
, okay, point taken, but it islike their livelihood in their
career and like, tell me a bearsquarterback.
That's like risen to fame afterbeing on the bears.
Speaker 1 (33:44):
Like I'll wait yeah, it's, it's been.
It's really interesting.
They just for such a greatsports town and they have some
iconic sports figures across thefranchises.
For whatever reason, right, thebears quarterback is just, it's
like a black hole forever yeah,it's a struggle someday.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
And then we, you know , we have the packers who, like,
can't miss with the quarterbackif they tried.
Speaker 1 (34:07):
So yeah, that's true, it's almost the, it's almost
the inverse.
Williams seems pretty good,though I think I mean he's shown
signs of being okay.
Obviously dysfunction at coacharound him and they've lost
games they should have won andstuff, but I think if he has, I
mean they have some talentaround him.
Like you said, the offensiveline needs help.
Defense is solid.
(34:27):
So I think if they can bring inI assume they're going to hire
an offensive coach I think thatwould make the most sense.
Right, and if they can get himsome stability and play calling
and system and give him sometime, I think he'll be fine.
I think he has.
I don't know if he's going tobe as great as a number one pick
should be, but I don't know.
I think he has enough tools andhe's so young.
I think with the right systemhe eventually can figure it out.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
Yeah, I like Williams a lot, I liked Fields.
I mean I've liked a lot of thevarious quarterbacks when they
come in and, quite honestly,don't fault them.
I don't fault them, I thinkthey just got put into the
dysfunction.
But I think our offensivecoordinator, who's now the
interim head coach, I think he'sdone a good.
I mean he made the adjustmentsagainst the Lions that we needed
to make to be.
He's made the adjustments everytime in the second half to put
(35:10):
us in a position to be in thesegames.
So I think he knows what he'sdoing.
So I'm hopeful that williamsand now the ocb in the interim
can hopefully we'll.
We'll start to get the bandtogether, because our defense is
never a problem.
They're always there and wehave a great receiving core, so
we'll be okay yeah, nice.
Speaker 1 (35:28):
Do you think they'll get rid of poles, or you think
they'll let him pick the nextcoach?
Speaker 2 (35:31):
uh, I think they already actually said uh on the
news here a few days ago thatthey're letting him pick the
next coach.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
Okay, because I know with war, because with warren
being in charge I kind ofthought that he would want, like
, because polls was there beforewarren.
I think that usually they don'tlike.
They usually like their ownpeople everywhere.
So I think that'll beinteresting.
Maybe they have a goodrelationship, that he would
allow him to say, but a lot oftimes, because I think the lions
are going to be the blueprintfor, or they should be the
(35:58):
blueprint for, dysfunctionalfranchises because, like they
took a different approach.
They brought in holmes andcampbell.
They're on the same page.
They had a plan.
They knew it was going to bebad for a while, which it was,
and then now look where they arein three years.
So it's like, if detroit canfigure it like, I think that has
to give hope to like the Jets,the Bears, maybe Jacksonville,
(36:20):
like teams that are just kind ofhistorically kind of bad all
the time, or at least havedysfunction all the time.
If you get the right people inplace and then allow them to
work, like with the right vision, like it can work.
But I just don't think teams doenough planning and foresight
and they make they just don'tmake great long-term decisions
yeah, yeah what sports do youmention?
(36:41):
sports like?
Speaker 2 (36:41):
what sports did you play like growing up, high
school and stuff yeah, I, um, Iplayed field hockey, basketball
and softball nice, so those weremy three, and then I I coached
them when I was in college andslightly after graduating
college as well.
Speaker 1 (36:57):
Nice, did you play in college too?
Speaker 2 (36:59):
I did not.
No, okay, yeah, I knew schoolwas going to be a big lift and I
really wanted to go to NotreDame and obviously that's super
competitive for sports there, soschool was plenty.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
No, we were just talking about that the other day
.
Would you?
I'll ask you.
So let's say you could havewalked on at Notre Dame, it
doesn't matter the sport.
Would you rather walk on at amajor, high-level D1 program but
never play, so just always be apractice player and on the
bench?
Or would you rather go to a D2school where no one would ever
see you but you, like you, wouldplay and be a contributing
(37:36):
member like most of your time?
Speaker 2 (37:39):
Yeah, I think my answer again is going to be
neither of those.
I did actually almost I did thefirst step of trying to walk
onto the.
Notre Dame softball team.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
Nice.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
And then my own self-doubts got in the way and
they invited me back to continuetrying out and I pulled myself
out.
Speaker 1 (37:59):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (38:00):
Which is actually a microcosm of that solopreneur
mindset that I mentioned, isthat self-doubt.
And now I never know how thatwould have ended up, because but
part of it was I don't know ifI'll ever play and school is
going to be really hard.
But as I was going through theprocess, you know I could have
done the D2, d3 thing, probablysome D1 places, but I knew
(38:24):
that's not what was going tocarry me, especially at that
time for women's sports.
I knew that's not what wasgoing to carry me after
graduation.
So finding the school that wasthe right fit for me was my
priority.
And then if the sports workedout, that was great, if not,
that's fine too.
Speaker 1 (38:41):
Nice Gosh.
Now we need a sliding doors ofwhat would have happened if you
went back.
Speaker 2 (38:45):
I know seriously.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
Yeah, that's fine.
I don't know.
I think I would go.
I played D3 forever ago, a yearof D3 basketball, but there was
no scholarship.
I was paying to go there andthen I just did basketball right
, and it wasn't that much funand we weren't that good and I'd
kind of just burn out becauseI'd been playing my whole life.
But I think if I'd gotten ascholarship or if it had been D2
(39:08):
, it would have been different.
But I think I would rather goto a smaller school and play.
I mean, I didn't really sitmuch in most of the sports I
played.
I just don't think, even at D1and travel and all the bells and
whistles you get, if I just hadto sit and watch I don't think
I could do it.
And it's a huge commitment tospread that yeah for sure, and I
(39:28):
get it, you won't have that atthe smaller school, but the NCAA
tournament and all that kind ofstuff.
It's an interesting argument ordebate, I guess, if you're, if
you have that choice.
So, as we finish up any partingthoughts and then let people
know if they're interested inyour work or your blog, or how
to find you, your website,linkedin, you know how can they
(39:49):
do so.
Speaker 2 (39:50):
Yeah, any parting thought I really liked.
One of your guests the otherday said can you just be kind?
I think mine would be centeringaround the joy.
Don't get too caught up in theminutia and take a step back and
make sure that you're findingthe joy in your journey, and if
you're not, then I'm a primeexample of the curvy path that
you can take to eventually getthere.
(40:10):
You're not.
It's easy to get stuck whenyou're in the day to day, and so
make sure that you have joy inyour journey and, if not, start
to make the adjustments to findit.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
That's great.
Speaker 2 (40:22):
But as far as finding me, yeah, I'm on LinkedIn.
I'm also on Instagram, which Idon't use very much, and my
website is LinkedIn.
Find me there, connect with me,message me Instagram.
You can find me there too.
You're going to get the samecontent, basically, that you got
on LinkedIn, or I'll send yousome funny reels, maybe, but
LinkedIn is the place to find me.
Speaker 1 (40:43):
Awesome.
Yeah Well, I'll link both yourLinkedIn and your website in the
show notes.
It was great meeting you.
It's the first time we'vegotten a chance to speak.
I love your story.
I really appreciate all yourinsight into your process and
your work.
And continued success to you.
Speaker 2 (40:56):
Thank you.
Thank you so much for having meand, yes, it was great speaking
in person.
Speaker 1 (41:01):
Awesome.
See you, Jamie.
Speaker 2 (41:02):
All right, see ya.
Popular Podcasts
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show
The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show. Clay Travis and Buck Sexton tackle the biggest stories in news, politics and current events with intelligence and humor. From the border crisis, to the madness of cancel culture and far-left missteps, Clay and Buck guide listeners through the latest headlines and hot topics with fun and entertaining conversations and opinions.