January 30, 2025 • 54 mins
What if ADHD isn't a limitation, but a unique way of experiencing the world?
Join me for a conversation with Kaitlin Johnson, an ADHD coach and former HR professional, as she shares her personal journey from being diagnosed with ADHD at age 15 to learning how to harness its strengths.
Kaitlin challenges the misconceptions surrounding ADHD, debunking myths of laziness and unproductivity, and unveils personalized strategies for managing ADHD effectively through self-acceptance and adaptation, particularly with medication.
Discover how embracing ADHD can lead to a fulfilling life, rather than viewing it as a life sentence.
Our discussion with Kaitlin takes us on a journey through the complexities of ADHD, focusing on its manifestation in adults and the need for updated diagnostic criteria.
Kaitlin shares her insights on setting realistic expectations and aligning long-term goals with personal values, navigating the societal pressures that often derail motivation.
Through engaging stories, we uncover the challenges of traditional productivity methods and the importance of finding strategies that resonate with neurodivergent minds.
Beyond ADHD, the episode explores Kaitlin's passion for tattoos, revealing the therapeutic and self-expressive aspects of body art.
Whether you're intrigued by ADHD management or the art of tattoos, this episode offers a captivating blend of inspiration and practical advice.
Tune in to embrace your true self and uncover the unique strengths within your own mind.
Kaitlin's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kaitlinjohnsonadhdcoach/
David's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-young-mba-indy/
David's Website: https://davidjyoung.me/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to the Real you Podcast.
This is Episode 30.
I'm David Young, your host.
I'm a LinkedIn content andbusiness coach.
I help coaches with less than3,000 followers grow their
businesses through betterstorytelling and content
creation.
I launched this podcast inMarch of 2024 to spotlight
interesting people doing amazingthings, and today I'm joined by
Kaitlin Johnson, an ADHD coachand former HR professional.
(00:22):
Kaitlin helps adults with ADHDditch the one size fits all
hacks and instead createspersonalized strategies that
work for their unique brains andlifestyles.
She's passionate about helpingpeople play to their strengths
and build systems that are bothsustainable and effective.
We'll discuss her journey, thepositives of living with ADHD
and how to turn those challengesinto opportunities for growth.
Caitlin, thank you so much formaking time and coming on the
(00:43):
show today.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Thank you for having me.
I'm so excited.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Absolutely, and this is your first podcast.
I just learned.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
It is.
It's my very first one, soyou'll have to forgive all of my
nervous little tics.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
That's fun.
No, you'll be great.
It's just like we were chattingbeforehand.
It's just the red button's onnow, so it's the same same.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
It's about the same thing.
I've got my emotional supportcoffee.
I'm good to go.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Perfect, so thanks for coming on.
We've gotten to know each otherpretty well the last few months
we started working together, Ithink in like August or
September, I reached out to justoffer you some help because you
were kind of new to LinkedIn.
I think you'd gotten laid offor something happened with your
previous job.
So yeah, so it's been funwatching your growth and seeing
you on LinkedIn and trying tohelp you just a little bit.
(01:26):
So yeah, it's been great to getto know you.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
We've helped a lot.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
I appreciate that, but no, you've been great,
you've really taken to theplatform and your content is
good and what you're offering isreally good because I think
there's a need for it.
I think there's a lot of whatyou've talked about in your
content.
There's a lot of confusionaround ADHD, and so you try to
help clarify that.
So I love what you're doing andkind of how it's going for you.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Thank you, thank you, and yeah, I mean it is.
It was really eye-opening tostart doing this and see just
how many people really don'tunderstand ADHD.
We grow up hearing that we'relazy or we're just not
productive, or we're not madefor this or too sensitive or
whatever.
We hear a lot of these littlecriticisms throughout our lives
and, you know, we grow intoadults thinking I just can't do
(02:11):
it, and that's simply not thecase for people with ADHD.
Granted, some things might be alittle bit more difficult, but
ADHD has so many gifts thatpeople are unaware of ADHD.
Brains really can be amazing,and I'm so excited to be able to
share that with people.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Nice.
When did you?
I don't know what the rightword is.
Is it diagnosed?
The right word?
Okay?
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Yeah, yeah, yeah Diagnosed.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
When, like when, were you diagnosed?
Speaker 2 (02:32):
So I was diagnosed when I was about 15.
And so my mom brought me intothis doctor.
I guess I don't really know ifhe even specialized it in the
time.
There was very little researchat that point about ADHD.
20 years ago he ended up doingthese computer tests where I
would you know, see something onthe computer and click buttons
(02:55):
and still remember it being oneof the most overwhelming
experiences of my life.
And, lo and behold, I get thediagnosis and it was put on
medication and that's at thetime.
That's really all we had.
Adhd is treated via medicationand so, as a result, I largely
ignored my diagnosis for a lotof years, a lot of years which
(03:19):
didn't really help managesymptoms at all.
Honestly, it was almost a giftin a way, because I think as a
teenager you don't reallyunderstand those differences and
how to stand up for yourself,how to show up for yourself, but
as an adult you have a littlebit more self-awareness.
So, honestly, it was helpfulthen coming back to ADHD in my
20s and trying everything that Icould find to help manage
(03:42):
symptoms and really thenultimately finding the systems
and the solutions that workedfor me.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
No, that's interesting and that's a good
way to reframe to look at it,that it was kind of helped you
in the long run.
Did you have to experiment withdifferent medicines and
different doses, or were theyable to?
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Oh yeah, no, it's constant experimentation and you
know that'll probably continue,honestly, because people change
and our bodies change and weage and mature and all of that
stuff.
So I've probably been on ohgosh, like four or five
different medications.
I take Adderall at this point,which has been my favorite so
far.
Eventually, when the price goesdown a little bit, I want to
(04:21):
try Vyvanse, which people say isreally great.
I think it's a constantexperimentation based on what
your body needs at thatparticular time, how your brain
is changing.
But yes, short answer.
Yes, I experimented a lot.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Yeah, because my oldest.
He's now 15.
He first got diagnosed when hewas about 11, four years ago,
and how it came up was that hewas coming home in the fifth
grade doing like three hours ofhomework.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
And we were like this is not normal.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
It's a lot of homework, yeah, for fifth
graders like something's goingon.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
So we started talking to the teacher and like well,
we give him time in class, buthe doesn't do it and so it piles
up, and so they don't do thetest piles up and so they don't
do the test.
They don't do the click thebutton test anymore.
Now it's, there's aquestionnaire and so like I fill
it out, my wife filled it out,and then we get three of his
teachers to fill it out and thenthat goes to the doctor and
then, based on the answers toall of those, they decide.
(05:17):
But they still they bring himback for an appointment.
And then you review the answersand then at that point you're
like yes or no much bettermethod so for him it was kind of
a like definitely, and thenmedication would help, and so
he's been on some form ofmedication and it makes a huge
difference, like once he, oncehe started on the meds, then he
basically had no homework.
It went from three hours tonone, because now he was able to
(05:38):
do it in school yeah, yeah so,but it's, but he doesn't like
the way it makes him feel.
It's because he doesn't feellike he's himself, and so it's
almost like two brains, like onmed brain, off med brain, but it
makes such a difference Like heunderstands that he needs it.
So, yeah, it's, it'schallenging and it'll be
interesting to see, like yousaid, like as he grows and he's
(05:59):
got another 10 years of braindevelopment, like what, what
that will look like and like allthat kind of stuff there's a
lot like.
There's a lot more to it than Iwould have ever like known from
the outside.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
There really is, and it's interesting that you say
that because I hear that a lot,especially with younger people,
so people who are under 25, theystop taking ADHD medication
because of that exact reason.
It doesn't make them feel likethemselves and I don't know the
science really behind that.
I don't know if you know, untilyour brain fully develops, if
(06:31):
it does something different, butI have heard that a lot.
Has he experimented withdifferent medications?
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Yeah, so I don't know all of them.
A lot of them are generic, sothe names won't matter.
So he has played around with it.
Where he is now, which isworking pretty well, is he takes
a full dose of one in themorning and then he does a
booster at maybe one o'clock,something like that, and then
that gets him through the prettymuch through the day and then
he has typically practiced, youknow, after school.
So that usually gets himthrough that and that's working
(07:05):
pretty well.
Again, he doesn't love it, buthe knows that he needs it.
Also suppresses his appetite alittle bit, so we had to play
around.
The first one he was on wasmuch more of an appetite
suppressant, which was not goodfor him at all, because he needs
to gain weight.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
He's a growing boy.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
He's growing and he's skinny anyways, and so like
that was not good, so what he'son now is better.
It still suppresses a bit butit's not nearly as severe as the
other one.
But it is again kind of trialand error and dosing and like
when to take it and like allthat kind of stuff.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
Yeah, there is a lot of it.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
When you moved.
You know, as you're into your20s and you start kind of taking
a little deeper dive, like whatwas, what were some of the
strategies or what did you kindof find once you started looking
for ways to not just rely onthe medicine but to really start
like trying to help yourself?
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Yeah, yeah, you know it has been such a journey
because and I think all of uswith ADHD in this attempt to
help ourselves, we start outmyself included with these kind
of generic hacks, so things thatyou can find on the internet
the Pomodoro method, or blockyour time this way, or develop
(08:14):
this extensive routine, followthis routine, and it's like the
intention behind these tips andtricks and hacks.
It's good, it's really good,but it just doesn't work for a
neurodivergent brain.
These are designed byneurotypical brains and they
work great for neurotypicalbrains, adhd brains.
They have a harder time withthose hacks.
They just don't work and whatit ends up doing is we start
(08:38):
with these hacks.
They work at first and thenthey don't work and it kind of
brings us deeper into this whole, this lack of self-confidence,
lack of self-esteem.
I just can't do it, I'm justbroken, which is not the case.
And so, ultimately, what I foundthe key to managing ADHD is
understanding ADHD, reallyunderstanding how ADHD presents,
(09:00):
for in this case, I had tounderstand how ADHD presented
for myself, because it isdifferent for everybody.
So I learned a ton about mybrain.
I learned about the brain ingeneral.
I examined my symptoms, my ADHDtraits and then biggest
difference was practicingself-acceptance, honestly
building that confidence andrealizing that ADHD is not this
(09:23):
life sentence, it's notsomething that dooms you to fail
, it's just a different brain.
Accepting that and realizingthat and coming to terms with
just having a different brainwas you're going to hate me for
saying this.
It was a game changer.
I'm sorry for using that word.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
All out today.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
Thank you, but it really was.
I mean, it just made all thedifference.
It's just accepting myself forwho I was and it sounds so
cheesy, but with an ADHD brain,that is the key the way that our
brains work.
I hate that there's ascientific reason for this, but
there is.
We tend to focus on thenegative and then, when we hear
(10:05):
something negative, weinternalize it and then we
ruminate and so it sticks withus.
And again, the way that ourbrains work.
We constantly replay thesenegative things over and over,
and, over and over again and itjust becomes this cycle.
And until you findself-acceptance, until you start
to love that part of yourselfthat you've been told is broken,
(10:28):
you really don't have thefoundation to be able to help
your symptoms right.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
Yeah, that's a great point.
I mean it's the whole.
Like you go to your favoriterestaurant 10 times.
The first nine are great, the10th one's a terrible experience
.
Which one do you tell everybodyabout?
Right, it's the negative.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
Exactly Right, because, again, like you said,
biologically wired.
So it's interesting the analogythen to then focus on the
negative, like, oh, I have thiswhatever neurodivergent brain,
it's not, quote unquote, normal.
And then you focus on like that, like yeah, so I think that's a
great first step, that mindsetof like this, this is what I
(11:03):
have, this is, these are, thisis the hand I've been dealt.
So what's?
How can I maximize it?
Like what, what can I do tohelp it?
Now, with ADHD, I know, cause Ihave OCD, which is not related,
but it's at least somewhere inthe adjacent space and I know
for OCD there's differentcategories.
So there's, like you know,moderate to mild and there's
like moderate to severe andthere's severe.
(11:24):
Does ADHD kind of have asimilar like variations of like
how you have it?
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Yeah, yeah, it does.
I mean some people theirsymptoms present more severely
than others.
But there are, technicallyspeaking or medically speaking,
there are three types of ADHD.
So you have hyperactive ADHD,which is exactly how it sounds.
It's a lot of physicalhyperactivity.
You have inattentive ADHD,which again is similar to how it
sounds.
(11:51):
You have a hard time findingmotivation, finding focus, and
then there's the combination.
So the hyperactive, inattentiveand that is what most people
have, that's the most commonform of ADHD.
Is this hyperactive inattentive?
And an important clarificationtoo is hyperactive doesn't
necessarily mean physical.
It's important to clarify thatthat hyperactivity can be felt
(12:14):
in your brain as well.
So when ADHD people talk abouthaving chaos swirling around in
their heads or not being able toidentify a single thought,
that's a form of hyperactivityas well, and that's typically
the hyperactivity that you seewith adults.
Kids.
You're going to see thephysical hyperactivity.
My four-year-old has ADHD andchild cannot sit still.
She's bouncing off the walls,literally, literally bouncing
(12:36):
off the walls all the time.
But as she grows and as herbrain develops, we might see her
start to kind of merge into thebrain.
You know inside hyperactivityas well.
So it does change as you grow.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
Interesting Now, can you outgrow it, so like once you
get past?
You cannot, so if you have someform of it, you will always
have it.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
You will always have it and you can learn to
compensate for your symptoms,but you will always have ADHD.
So ADHD is actually, if youwere to look inside someone's
brain, if you compare, like aneurotypical brain with a
neurodivergent brain, there areactual physical differences in
those brains that are not evergoing to go away.
(13:20):
So you're born with ADHD andyou cannot upgrow ADHD going to
go away.
So you're born with ADHD andyou cannot outgrow ADHD.
But again, you can start bycompensating for some of those
symptoms or you can learn tocompensate for some of those
symptoms.
And that's another reallyimportant thing that I wish
people understood more aboutADHD is you know exactly what
you said You're born with it.
(13:41):
You can't outgrow it.
But some people experience whatwe call adult onset ADHD and
this is when you start bylearning how to compensate for
your symptoms.
You compensate early on, butsomething happens a stressful
event, a stressor in general andyou start to see these symptoms
and a lot of times these peopleare misdiagnosed because this
(14:04):
idea of adult onset ADHD isfairly new, but symptoms can
start showing up later in lifeand it's still ADHD.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
Interesting.
Now, do you think it's abenefit or neutral to have it be
adult onset versus knowing youhave it when you're?
Speaker 2 (14:22):
Yeah, I think it depends on how you handle it.
Honestly, I think one morenegative aspect of maybe having
adult onset ADHD is thediagnosis process.
In a lot of these diagnosesprocesses these days, a doctor
will ask you did you experiencesymptoms before age 12?
(14:43):
And if you answer no, they willnot diagnose you with ADHD.
So beware, if you've gone toget a diagnosis and someone asks
you did you experience symptomsbefore age 12?
Run, because that is not anaccurate way of diagnosing ADHD.
So in that sense, adult onsetADHD might be a little bit
harder to diagnose.
You've also learned tocompensate for some of these
(15:03):
symptoms already that might haveshown up when you're earlier,
younger, so it might be morecomplicated.
But I also think you have thematurity and the self-awareness
when you're older to approachdealing with symptoms in a
different way, right.
So you have the self-awarenessto say hey, this particular
activity screen time, forexample makes my brain feel more
(15:24):
chaotic when I'm done.
I should reduce my screen time,whereas a kid is going to go to
screen time and think this isreally fun.
I'm going to do it forever andnot notice what happens
afterwards.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
That's so true.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
I think it depends.
I think it depends.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
My youngest would play Fortnite forever if we'd
let them my three would do theexact same thing.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
I mean, it is constant.
Can we get on the screens?
Can we play video games?
No, we're on the screens foreight hours.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
So yeah it's.
I mean, they've done a good job.
They're addicting.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Yeah, they are.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
So with your four-year-old?
How?
How are you?
How did you know that she hadit?
Since most kids that age areeasily distracted, are bouncing
off the walls right, that's apretty normal behavior pattern
(16:13):
for most four-year-olds.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
So how are you able to figure that out for her?
Yeah, good question.
So it's interesting.
I knew that there was somethingkind of a little bit different
about her when she was monthsold, when it started out with
sleep.
She would not sleep through thenight.
In fact, I think she was threeyears old before she slept
through the night for the firsttime, and still it's very
sporadic.
She rarely is able to sleepthrough the night, and that's
(16:35):
one of the hallmarks of ADHD isthese sleep disorders or sleep
troubles, and we took her toneurologists, to pediatricians.
We tried everything, but it'sjust the way that her brain
works.
The chemicals in her brain justmake sleep a little bit more
difficult.
So that was the first thingthat I noticed with hers is
(16:56):
sleep was tough, to say theleast.
And then the other big symptomthat she has is emotional
regulation.
She has a very hard timeregulating her emotions, which
is common with any four-year-oldor five-year-old and below.
It's not unheard of by anymeans, but she has an especially
difficult time.
(17:16):
She cannot calm her body downwhen she's feeling upset.
She needs to be physicallyremoved from a situation.
And when it comes to discipline, to be physically removed from
a situation, and when it comesto discipline, she can't.
She has an auditory processingissue as well, which is again
common with kids with ADHD.
She has to fully calm her bodydown before she can understand.
(17:42):
You know ways to handle it inthe future.
So it's you know, it's littlethings here and there that made
it evident that you knowsomething was a little bit
different than you know maybethe friends that she was playing
with.
But I think, when it comes tokids with ADHD is it's these
little things that add up to abigger, a bigger issue that
you're seeing.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
Yeah, I'm assuming you can't medicate kids that
young.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
You actually can.
I'm not going to medicate herjust because she's a baby, but
you can medicate kids, I thinkas young as four, but I don't
know.
I mean, I think in my opinion Iwould prefer to try other
methods of you know, kind ofcontrolling some of her symptoms
before medicating, just because, to your point, I mean, even
with your teenage son, he feelsdifferent on the medication.
(18:32):
You know, he has the words andthe self-awareness to describe
how he's feeling and how itmakes him feel, whereas younger
kids, they don't understand thatas well.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
No, that makes sense.
What are some of the top thingsthat you've learned about
yourself?
What you help your clients with, non-medication related but
just and I know it depends,obviously because you said it's
different for everyone, but I'massuming there's some go-to.
After you learn about it andyou accept it, or you're able to
at least move towardsacceptance, then what can you
(19:03):
start to do then?
To like give yourself the bestchance to operate at your
highest level?
Speaker 2 (19:08):
Yeah, so I have found with 99% of my clients, when
ADHD is present and they'rehaving trouble managing symptoms
, there is often something belowthe surface that is
exacerbating ADHD symptoms orpreventing these um, you know
(19:29):
solutions from from actuallyworking.
And so, um, typically there'ssome underlying trauma that has
occurred that is still presentwithin um, you know, within the
body, within brain, that that isagain exacerbating it.
And my parents died in a firewhen I was three years old and I
(19:54):
watched it happen.
Like it doesn't have to be thatintense.
It could be a bad breakup.
It could be getting fired froma job you loved, you know,
anything that has had an impacton you.
I have found that people withADHD have a harder time really
moving past those experiencesand likely it has to do with
(20:15):
something called RSD, which isrejection, sensitive dysphoria.
But it's something that a lot ofpeople with ADHD have a
challenging time dealing withand it makes you more sensitive
to emotional experiences.
It gives you bigger emotionalreactions and it also is part of
(20:35):
the reason that you'reinternalizing a lot of these
traumas that are happening andwhy you're not able to move past
them.
So with a lot of my clients wego back in time, so to speak,
and we reframe these experiencesthat have caused us distress,
and so we change our perspectivea little bit.
We look at it from athird-party perspective because
(20:59):
not for nothing, sometimes ourbrains and our memories do lie
to us in a sense, and when we goback and we re-examine these
experiences, we can see themfrom a different lens that
doesn't feel quite as traumatic,or we can be the support, be
the guidance for our youngerselves that we wish we had at
the time, and I found that to bereally helpful in at least
(21:21):
providing the foundation to thenstart managing ADHD symptoms.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
That's interesting.
I would not have thought ofthat and I'm assuming most of
your clients probably don't makethat connection either.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
They don't.
They don't.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
So it's.
You know how that's?
Well, I mean, it makes senselogically that it's tied
together, but it seems like sucha different.
The trauma doesn't seem related.
But then you realize it's kindof all interconnected.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
It is.
It is especially when, againwith ADHD, you do internalize
and then you ruminate, andthat's you know.
I don't know how scientific youwant to get here, but it's
thanks to essentially a brokenlever within the brain that
leads your imagination to alwaysbe on and not shut down your
(22:08):
imagination.
With ADHD, it's very difficultto do that, and so it allows
your thoughts to run away withthemselves and go down these
rabbit holes and come up withthese very negative scenarios
that we then feed back toourselves.
And so when we have thesetraumatic experiences, they're
constantly rerunning in ourbrains until we actively find
(22:30):
ways to, you know, shrink them.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
Yeah, and see, and I think that's where the overlap
to OCD is, because that's what Ithat was like the worst of my
OCD was Really.
It wasn't so much past what Iwould call traumatic experiences
, but it was something currentthat I then would play on a loop
that I couldn't stop playing.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Interesting.
So how do you remedy that then?
What do you do to stop the loop?
Speaker 1 (22:57):
These days it's a combination of therapy,
medication, exercise, breathingtechniques and just awareness of
what's happening and almostlike getting outside of your
body and looking at it, likeobserving yourself in the third
party, which is very difficultto do, but just and it's.
(23:18):
I mean, I've had it for a longtime, so it's a lot of just
practice and years, so that, Ithink, is everything you've
described.
That's the one thing that Ifeel like is most that I can
really understand.
The most is those likerepetitive thoughts and you,
just you, simply can't get ridof them.
Mine would sometimes go at itsworst, probably three days,
(23:40):
maybe longer, of just constant.
I had no way to break it.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
Yeah, it's exhausting .
Speaker 1 (23:47):
It is Other than sleeping.
If I could sleep, that wouldstop it, but if I was awake
there was almost nothing else Icould do.
I could do it temporarily If Iworked on something that
required high focus.
I would play chess.
Sometimes I'd have to thinkabout the game or the moves, but
as soon as that was over, itwould come right back, so it was
only temporary yeah yeah,that's a good point.
(24:07):
It is extraordinarily exhaustingmentally and physically.
And then you're always.
For me it was always like Iwalked on eggshells, because
you're always trying to avoid,like the next one.
You never knew when the nextone was going to happen.
So it was just constant, likeyou're always just on defense,
you know, like all the time.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
Fight or flight and then it just leads to burnout so
quickly.
And then, once you're inburnout mode, then it's, this
vicious cycle starts up again.
You're so exhausted it's hardto do the things and, by the way
, the things that you do for OCD, same things that people with
ADHD do as well to kind of tryto combat that.
But once you're in burnout mode, your first instinct is not to
(24:44):
go to mindfulness meditationexercise.
You're exhausted, you just wantto sit there and then, when
you're sitting there, of coursegoing back into that cycle.
It's tough.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
Yeah, for sure, the breathing is a relatively new
one for me and that one hashelped quite a bit, because
that's what I like about thatone is I can do it real time.
So if something, if I gettriggered, I can just instantly
go to some paced breathing, someforced breathing, and it's
amazing how quickly you canstart to like not necessarily
neutralize it, but you canreally start to slow its
(25:16):
progression almost immediately.
So that's been really key.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
That's awesome.
What's your favorite?
I'm sorry, go ahead, go ahead.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
No, just like I said, that's relatively new and I
don't think I would have gottenthere 10 or 15 years ago.
I think I would have rejectedthat.
I don't know if I have afavorite.
There's one that I do.
That's like two inhales.
I didn't even know you could dothis, but you go second inhale
and then you hold it and thenyou let it out that one, because
it's a brain interrupter,because you have to think about
(25:47):
you won't breathe that waynaturally.
So to take that first inhaleand then take the second one,
like your brain has to focus onthat second inhale, you can't do
it otherwise.
Maybe you could train yourself,but most people, if you tell
them to take two inhales, theyhave to be like hold on, Did I
just?
yeah, so you.
So it almost immediately A,forces your brain off of what
(26:09):
you're trying to think of, andthen B, you're getting the
nervous system relaxation withthe actual deeper breathing, and
you're holding it and you'reletting out.
You can hold it at the end andthere's obviously I mean,
there's tons of different waysto do it, but that's the one
that I probably go to instantlyif I have something that's
potentially problematic.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
That's the breathing that they told me to do when I
was in labor.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
Oh really.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
I think it calms physical sensations too, and
that of course when you're inlabor.
Oh really, I think it calmsphysical sensations too, and
that you know.
Of course, when you're in laboryou're freaking out.
I think it just yeah to yourpoint of calm is like the
nervous system too.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
But it does work.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
Well, and that's the idea, is the consistent
breathing practice.
You kind of you try to keepyour nervous system in a
relatively calm state.
It's much easier than when youget triggered or something
happens.
Your reactions and everythingjust comes from a totally
different place, whereas whatyou talked about, like if you're
in that state of fight orflight or burnout or agitated,
(27:07):
and then something happens, likeyou're just much more quickly
move to overreacting, yelling,whatever, and then and then, and
it just like you said it justkeeps you, just keep spinning
you can't, can't get out right.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
It's so hard, but it's all about like maintenance,
right?
It's like same as healthyeating.
You know you eat healthy sothat you don't develop these
chronic illnesses that thenrequire you to spend, you know,
years of your life in a hospitalor taking medication.
It's all about maintenanceversus.
You know the reactive response.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
Yeah, for sure.
So as you move people, you'rehelping them kind of identify
the traumatic past and thenreframe that think about it
differently Then, like what'sthe next step?
Like where do you then movethem after to kind of keep
progressing?
Speaker 2 (27:58):
Yeah, so we talk about lifestyle.
So I think one of the mostimportant things with ADHD and,
honestly, even if you don't haveADHD is not pushing yourself
past your limit or notintroducing a million different
changes or things at once,because it becomes unsustainable
.
You know, if you take the babysteps, then you've got these
sustainable solutions, thesesustainable routines that end up
(28:21):
helping a lot more than if youwere to write down, you know, an
entirely new morning andevening routine that you're
going to follow.
You know, step by step, everyday.
It's like nobody's going tostick with that long-term and I
mean, I guess maybe it's likesuperhuman people can, but I
cannot, I cannot.
So we typically, with clients,examine what works and what
(28:43):
doesn't work in their lifestylesand then we take the things
that do work and we build onthat.
So we always want to start froma place of positive response.
Instead of making a bunch ofchanges.
It's like, well, okay, what canwe add in that?
You know that you can maintain,that feels good, that feels
natural, that we can then buildon.
It's like when, I don't know,you remember, like these diet
(29:06):
culture, when it was like, ifyou want to lose weight, if you
want to be Kate Moss skinny, youhave to remove all these things
from your diet, and it's likepeople would go on these crash
diets and they'd be so muchworse off than they were before.
It's like the same approach.
It's like, instead of taking amillion things away, let's just
add in one proactive thing at atime, baby steps, build upon
(29:28):
this routine until it feelsnatural.
You know there is an element ofdiscipline in there, but don't
force yourself to go all out.
You're setting yourself up tofail.
It's this idea of being kinderto yourself and meeting yourself
where you are, instead oftrying to completely overhaul
anything.
I mean that's a shock toanybody's system, especially a
(29:50):
neurodivergent brain.
Transitions and change are hardanyway.
Why make it harder on yourself?
Speaker 1 (29:56):
yeah, I mean that's a great point for almost any new
endeavor or anything you'retrying to tackle, that you can
really only add like one or twothings at a time, depending on
their complexity, and if you tryto make, yeah, eight changes at
once, I mean there's just, youliterally won't do it no, it's
overwhelming as heck.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
And then you end up feeling worse about yourself
when you can't do it, becausewho can do it long term?
Nobody.
You're going to end up justfeeling shitty, sorry.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
Well, I mean, and with the new year coming up and
all the resolutions and I thinkthat's a big one is that people
just they try to do everythingright.
They look at their money andtheir finances and their job and
their career and theirrelationships and it's like,
yeah, you can't solve all thoseon January 2nd, like that's not
going to happen, so pick one.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
Like two areas of one and then move that in the right
direction, then pick two more.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
Exactly.
I used to work at a gym incollege and it was like a
running joke because January 1st, you'd see, oh my God, the gym
is packed, like no machine isleft untouched, like everybody
is in the gym Come like February, march, dead.
It's just quiet, there's nobodythere.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
I mean it's, yeah, it's.
I mean you hear and see it allthe time and I don't even know
what the percentage ofresolutions that fail, but it's
an extremely high number.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
So many.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
But I think it's again.
It sounds good, it looks good,it feels good for a couple of
weeks, and then your life takesover.
Normalcy kicks in Suddenly it'sJanuary 16th.
It has no real special time.
You're like fuck it, I'm goingto stop.
Speaker 2 (31:28):
Exactly, I'm not doing it, I don't feel like it
and you're going to.
I mean, everybody losesmotivation at some point, so you
have to make sure that whenyou're adding these things in,
it's not going to be super hardto get that motivation back when
you inevitably lose it.
Like no one is able to keepmotivation nonstop, you know,
forever.
(31:48):
People have ebbs and flows,right?
So it's like set yourself upfor success.
Don't try to do everything atonce.
I saw oh my God, I saw a poston LinkedIn this guy talked
about he worked for it was likeover a month straight, every
single day, for 14 hours a day,and he's like and I don't regret
(32:09):
any second of it because hereare the things that I got done
and I'm good for him.
If it works for you, it worksfor you.
But, oh my God, like to be inyour brain right now.
I was like I was having heartpalpitations just reading that.
It's like be kind to yourself.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
Yeah, that's not sustainable.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
No.
Speaker 1 (32:30):
The other thing too, and I think another reason why
people quit so quickly, is welive in such an instant results
society right, everything'sdownloadable and streaming and
Uber, eats and microwaveEverything is quickly.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
Instant gratification .
Speaker 1 (32:44):
Amazon same day deliveries, all of it.
So we then want that to happenfor things that you're not able
to do that.
So chances are if you aresigning up for a gym membership,
you probably haven't been goingto the gym, so you're probably
not in peak physical conditionto begin with.
So it's going to take longerthan two trips or two weeks of
going right, and so I thinkpeople don't see that really
(33:08):
dramatic shifts, which you won'tagain, especially depending on
where your baseline is.
So it's going to take a while.
So you have to kind of temperyour expectations.
It's no different than LinkedIn.
You can't just start posting onLinkedIn.
Nobody knows who you are andpeople just flock to your
business.
It doesn't happen that way.
It takes time and you have tobuild a network and
relationships and be consistentand comment on other people's
(33:29):
posts, and there's all thesethings you have to.
Like you can't start on January1st and by the 15th be full of
clients Like.
It just simply doesn't workthat way.
So I think people have to getout of that quick fix mentality.
Some things it's nice 100%.
But for the bigger stuff andwhen you're talking about, you
know, adhd or lifestyle changesor trauma healing or like much
(33:50):
deeper stuff, like it's justgoing to take longer.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
It takes effort and it's not easy, but you know you
have to be able to show up foryourself and invest in yourself,
right?
I mean?
That is the greatest gift thatyou can give yourself and, to
your point, this instantgratification is, for sure, a
challenge for people with ADHDand for everybody, but ADHD it's
a challenge for me, I mean,especially now to your point.
(34:15):
We've got Amazon, we've got thesmartphones, we've got
literally everything at ourfingertips and it's hard to then
wait for results, like I I meanwe were talking about the gym
Like I have been guilty of thisa million times, I will.
I'm quite small.
You can't really tell with theclothes.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
I wear but small.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
But I don't have.
I, I don't, you know, go to thegym regularly.
I I'm not toned so, but I havefallen into this trap a million
times where I'm like I'm goingto get ripped.
I'm going to get ripped, I'mgoing to look great Like
swimsuit season.
Here I come, I will go to thegym for two weeks and obviously
I'm not going to see anydifference in two weeks.
But after two weeks I'm like Ijust I don't.
(34:56):
I don't have muscles, theydon't exist in my body, it's
just, it's gel.
It's this idea of instantgratification.
You've got to manage yourexpectations and come at these
resolutions or goals withrealistic and finder, you know,
end goals in mind.
You know, maybe I'm not, youknow, going to go to the gym and
(35:20):
be ripped, but is that the realreason?
I should be going to the gym?
Go to the gym to be healthy andthen, as a result, you manage
your expectations a littlebetter.
Speaker 1 (35:31):
Yeah, and that's.
I talked to my wife aboutworking out and we talk about
just like life, fitness.
Right, you're not, because I'm.
Usually, if I'm going to the, Idon't go to the gym much.
Most of the stuff I do is justaround the house.
But yeah if I'm doing somethingwith enough intensity, I'm
usually training for some kindof race.
But she doesn't do that likeshe's not gonna race, it's just
not.
She's not interested in it andI'm.
(35:52):
That's totally fine.
More people were in your campthan are in mine, but you're
doing it.
Cardio and the strengthtraining and all that kind of
stuff is for life.
You want to be just physicallystronger to withstand.
Her job is very draining Fightoff illness, play with your kids
.
There's all these things thatyou just want to be quote
(36:12):
unquote in shape, for it hasnothing to do with running a
certain mile or lifting acertain amount of weight, and so
I think a lot of people forgetthat.
That's a good reason Like thatcan be your race can be your
life.
Um, I was having Lisa Klein on.
I don't know if you know Lisa,she was saying that to me.
She she's just came on thepodcast last week and we were
(36:33):
talking about that and I thinkshe was the one that was saying
like if you need motivation andyou don't have a specific goal,
then make your life themotivation.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
I love that I can't wait to listen to that one.
It sounds incredible.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
She used to be a health and wellness coach and
she did that for like 10 yearsand so she just had a lot of
experience talking to people andI think she worked mostly with
women.
I'm not sure about that, butjust again, they were just
struggling to find motivation,that so she was trying to find
ways to like explain it to themand we were both kind of on the
same page with the you know justfor your life and she said it
(37:10):
better than I did but it's thesame principle that that can be
your motivation.
If you don't have I mean inswimsuit season or going to the
beach or the summer, obviously alot of people Right If it works
for you.
Right, spring break trip orsomething.
That's totally fine, there'snothing wrong with that, but
whatever, whatever you need, butyou just have to have the
longer, the longer goal in mind.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
Right, but that is hard for people with ADHD or
just neurodivergence in general.
These longer goals, it's kindof hard to you know to think
about something that far inadvance.
But you know it's this idea ofsitting with realistic
expectations and defining whatyour sense of success is.
You know, at least it wassaying make your life your, your
(37:51):
end result.
Lisa, I'm coming for you.
I want to talk.
Speaker 1 (37:55):
Sounds good, I can put you in touch.
Speaker 2 (37:58):
She sounds great.
I would love to.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
One of the things you talk about in your tagline and
your content is the hacks.
What are a couple of the prettycommon hacks that really don't
help?
Speaker 2 (38:11):
Yeah, planners, that's a big one.
I cannot tell you.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
I think you've made fun of me for this before you
have a list, you have a stack ofuntouched planners.
I have a stack.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
A stack, and it's true, because you get this idea
in your brain.
It's like this is the one, thisis the planner.
This is going to make me do it.
No, it's not, no, it, no, it'snot, no, it's not.
It didn't work the first 25times.
It's not going to work the 26thtime, but the other one.
That I say this, you know, takeit with a grain of salt,
because it does work for somepeople.
(38:43):
But the Pomodoro method justgrinds my gears.
I can't stand it.
It's this idea of, like working25 minutes and then you get a
three minute break, and then youwork 25 minutes and get a three
minute break.
Kill me now, toss me off thatcliff.
I cannot do it.
My brain will find any excuseto not finish those 25 minutes.
I will look at that timer andbe like, why would I listen to
(39:06):
this little piece of plastic?
I don't want to do this.
This is not going to make me dothis Pomodoro method.
No, thank you.
It just doesn't give thatmotivation.
Those are the two that I thinkthat I hear the most.
Or the wall calendar likeputting up a wall calendar, you
use it for one month and then itstays blank for the rest of the
year.
I think the reason these thingswind me up so much is because
(39:30):
of the effect on self-confidencethat they have.
You think, because of theeffect on self-confidence that
they have, you think I should beable to do this.
This was marketed for peoplewith ADHD.
Like I should be able to besuccessful at this.
Well, not necessarily.
It might work for Jimmy overhere, but Taylor over here needs
a different method.
So, blindly following thesegeneric hacks, these tips and
(39:53):
tricks that you can find on theinternet that guarantee success,
like, give me a break.
One, everybody's different.
And two, these hacks weredesigned to work for
neurotypical brains.
Neurodivergent brains workcompletely differently.
I mean, we mentioned it earlier, there are physical differences
in your brain.
When you have ADHD, yourcerebellum is smaller.
(40:14):
You've got differentconnections firing.
It's very interesting, but it'salso very telling.
The things that are designedfor people with a more typical
or more common brain, they'rejust not going to get the same
benefit.
They're not going to have thesame benefit if you put it in
front of a neurodiverse person.
(40:35):
So it's all about finding whatworks for you and designing
long-term solutions that you canimplement, put into your
existing lifestyle to make itsustainable.
But jumping from hack to hackto hack, you're wasting your
time.
Speaker 1 (40:49):
Yeah, no, that's a good point and, like you said,
it's different for everyone.
I'm actually reading the book.
It's called 4,000 Weeks.
Are you familiar with that book?
Speaker 2 (40:57):
You only have 4,000 Weeks anxiety-inducing, but it
is so eye-opening Are you readyso?
Eye-opening.
I've not read it yet, I've donethe SparkNotes version, but I
think it's actually number threeon my list right now.
It's up there.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
So I've had it for a while it's been sitting dormant
in my audible queue and lastweek, for some reason, I just
got motivated to book.
Now I start a lot of books andI almost never finish them, so I
was like, all right, this willbe another one, I'll start and
stop, and I've only read maybethree chapters.
It's really interesting and I'massuming he eventually is going
to get to, because it is aboutthe shortness of life, but it
(41:34):
also is, at least what I've readso far.
It's a lot about how time hacksand efficiency and productivity
is essentially all a scam andit's all a waste of time because
the more efficient andproductive you become, the more
efficient and productive youwant to become, and there's no
end.
And so there is no.
You don't ever solve it.
So it's.
You know.
It's similar to like the bestemployee who does the most work.
(41:57):
Then who does the boss give themost work, extra work to?
Exactly Because you've provenyou can take it on right.
Speaker 2 (42:02):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (42:03):
So it's like so it's.
And his point is not to likeobviously you want to try to be
efficient with your time, likeyou don't just like do whatever,
but that like the techniquesyou're talking about and the
planners, and there's all thesethings, and these days, right,
there's AI, there's all theseapps and it's it's endless.
(42:24):
And he's basically like you,just you just end up spinning
your wheels and you actuallydon't really accomplish nearly
what you like set out toaccomplish.
Anyway, that's his point so far, and maybe eventually it shifts
and maybe there is somethingthat he comes up with at the end
.
It's like you know, if you'regoing to do it, do this, but
it's interesting.
But yeah, I turned 50 in thesummer, next summer, and so,
reading that book, I'm like I'mactually.
I'm actually way.
I don't have that many weeksleft.
(42:46):
I'm down to like 1500.
Speaker 2 (42:49):
that's why the book is so anxiety inducing, why it
hasn't gone up in my list, causeit's like I have used so many
of my weeks.
What?
Speaker 1 (42:58):
are you doing for your 50th, though, do?
Speaker 2 (42:59):
you have fun plans.
Speaker 1 (43:00):
I don't know.
We've gone back and forth.
I wanted to go hiking out Westand my kids shut that down like
a Fortnite sniper.
Speaker 2 (43:08):
Like a Fortnite sniper.
Speaker 1 (43:10):
Yeah, so that that didn't last very long and then
we've just kicked around.
We've kicked around ideas.
Nothing has really stuck.
But we have to plan something,because July is now a lot closer
than it was, you know, in Marchwhen we first started talking
about it.
So, yeah, I don't know, we'llfind, honestly, it'll end up
being a beach and water, becausethat's what everybody wants and
we don't have that.
Speaker 2 (43:30):
Yeah, but you like the mountains, don't you?
You're the hiking mountains guy.
Speaker 1 (43:34):
I've actually never done it.
What, yeah, which is one of thereasons why I wanted to do it,
because I was like, oh, it'sdifferent.
Speaker 2 (43:39):
Oh my God, you have to go out west.
We took a family vacation in2018.
But we went out to Moab andColorado.
Oh, zion and Colorado, zion.
It was incredibly beautiful.
You know, you always think youhave to go overseas to find
these like gorgeous hikingplaces, like go hiking in the
(44:01):
Swiss Alps or you know, whateverNever done that would love to.
But oh my God, the amount ofjust natural beauty that you can
find in the United States.
Holy cow, we just went to.
Earlier this year we went toTucson my, my partner and I.
We went to saguaro nationalpark.
If you had told me before thetrip that I was going to be that
(44:22):
in awe of a desert, I wouldhave laughed in your face, but I
was in awe of the desert no,it's, it is.
Speaker 1 (44:29):
it is true how much is here and how you don't have
to take the exotic internationaltrips.
I think part of the problem isbecause I have a midsummer
birthday and so when we startedto think seriously about Utah
because we were going to do, Ithink there's five national
parks within four or five hoursor something.
But in the heat in July, rightyeah, it's so hot.
(44:49):
And so my kids were like know,we're not necessarily against
hiking, but like isn't it gonnabe 110 degrees?
Like how long are werealistically going to be able
to do it?
And then and they weren't wrongso I think we either would have
had to either move the trip upand take it in the spring, or
push it back and take it in thefall.
I just don't think summerhiking would have been, you know
, the best no, to try to do itaround the same time you know,
(45:13):
so it'll it'll probably just beum.
Well, so lisa, who I wasmentioning, she they do a trip
every year um to the outer banks, and so I love the outer banks.
That's my neck of the woodsyeah, so that's close to you, so
if we, maybe we'll make it overthere.
We've been to carolina.
We went to emerald isle three,four years ago, went to Hilton
(45:33):
Head two years ago, so we arefamiliar with kind of that part
of the country.
I don't know, but that'sprobably what it would be.
Yeah, I love it.
Speaker 2 (45:43):
So I grew up on the coast of North Carolina on an
island called Baltet Island, andthat one is a phenomenal family
vacation.
If you guys do want to do abeach, highly recommend it.
It's the best.
It was the most incredibleplace to grow up, and you have
to take a ferry to get there.
There's no cars, so it's reallysafe for kids, so they can go
(46:05):
out and do their own thing Y'allcan do your own thing, it's
like and then come back together.
It's awesome.
It's an awesome family vacationespecially if you have older
kids younger kids too nice.
Speaker 1 (46:17):
Yeah, we'll check that out.
So as we wrap up here, we'llfinish up with adc in a second.
Speaker 2 (46:20):
I want to ask about.
Speaker 1 (46:22):
Oh yeah I want to ask about your tattoos, because
people aren't going to see this,but we are on video, but you
have quite a few of them I doyou're.
You're rolling up your sleevenow and I can see more of them.
Speaker 2 (46:32):
There's a lot.
Speaker 1 (46:34):
How many did you have , when did you start getting
them and what's your long-termink plan?
Speaker 2 (46:45):
Okay, so my first tattoo.
I got on a street corner for 20bucks in a third world country
when.
I was 17 years old.
Wow, yes, did not use a newneedle, did not use new ink
Super safe, super safe.
Super safe.
Came back to the States I wasliving abroad at that time Came
back to the States and went withone of my girlfriends to get
her first tattoo and saw whatthe artist was doing like
(47:07):
opening up a new ink and youknow there's this plastic
wrapped needle and I immediatelybooked a blood test at the
local clinic to check that I didnot have like HIV or something.
I do not, I am perfectly healthyNarrowly missed that one but
they are truly addicting.
(47:29):
I mean, I have them.
You can see them everywhere,shoulder, like all the way down
my arm, all the way down thesearms.
They're addicting.
I mean, I have them.
You can see them everywhere,shoulder, like all the way down
my arm, all the way down thesearms.
They're addicting.
Speaker 1 (47:37):
So once you get one, like it's really hard to stop.
Speaker 2 (47:40):
Plus, this sounds so bizarre and maybe I don't even.
I don't know.
Maybe this is a neurodivergentthing, but I love the feeling of
getting a tattoo.
It hurts, but I I asleep on thetable before.
It's like free.
Well, it's not free becausethey're expensive, but it is
like therapy.
(48:00):
It is just like therapy, andthen you're exhausted afterwards
you take the best nap.
Highly recommend going to get atattoo.
Speaker 1 (48:09):
Interesting.
Speaker 2 (48:10):
So, yeah, I'll eventually just be fully covered
.
Uh, next time we talk I'm gonnahave them on my cheeks.
Get ready.
And then the teardropsteardrops.
Speaker 1 (48:18):
Yeah, there you go.
Yeah, because you've got a.
I can see a bunch.
You have a bunch on your arms,like your forearms and your
wrist, um, and stuff.
Do you just do you get them?
Is there any kind of like rhymeor reason?
Or you just get motivated.
You're like I'm gonna get oneand you just go a or reason or
you just get motivated andyou're like I'm going to get one
and you just go.
Speaker 2 (48:36):
A lot of times I just get motivated and just go.
One of the more recent ones, Iwonder if I can get it all the
way up.
You'll be able to see it.
This is a drawing from my kid'sfavorite TV show, bluey.
Speaker 1 (48:48):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (48:48):
The dad in Bluey drew this wonky horse thing and the
kids thought it was so funny andthey said you got to go get
this as a tattoo.
And the next day guess what Idid- Exactly that.
I got it as a tattoo, so therereally is no rhyme and reason.
I mean, I've got, I do have.
I don't think I can roll mysweater up that high, but up
(49:10):
here I do have.
All of my family and my bestfriends all drew a star and then
I got all of their starstattooed on my upper arm and so
it's like my whole universe ofall the people that I love on my
arm.
So some of them have somemeaning, others, like this wonky
little horse, just happened.
Speaker 1 (49:32):
No, I love it.
I don't have any for a longtime.
Well, when I was growing up,they weren't as popular, so it
was like getting one kind of wasmore it's very taboo yeah, now
obviously society has switchedand they're much more common and
people have them, and peoplehave sleeves and color and like
it's very, it's just gone theother way.
And so now I'm like okay, nowmaybe I shouldn't get one
because I'm more it's's.
The pendulum has swung, so Ithink I'm now more unique if I
(49:54):
don't have any.
Speaker 2 (49:55):
Exactly, exactly.
You're so, so much cooler ifyou don't have them now.
Speaker 1 (50:02):
But there's been a couple of times when I've gotten
like I don't know how serious,but I've at least like thought
about it, but I can never decidewhere, I can never decide what,
and then I just ended up, youknow, eventually going away.
When I first started thisjourney, I was going to get I
can send you the picture.
Speaker 2 (50:21):
It was a big, this huge lion mane like right here.
I like it.
Speaker 1 (50:24):
And I showed somebody and she talked me out of it
because she had several and shewas like first of all, that's
way too complicated for yourfirst one, because that's gonna
take.
It's gonna take forever, you'regonna need multiple sittings.
Uh, she was like, since youdon't have any, she was like I
would recommend getting a smallone first, just to make sure
that you're like down with theprocess.
And she was like, if that onegoes well, she was like then
(50:46):
well, and then the other thingshe was like.
She was like there aren't thatmany tattoo artists that can do
that.
What?
What I showed her?
She was like there aren't thatmany that can do that.
Well, so you're really going tohave to do some research.
You're going to have to talk topeople and make sure they're
capable, because that's not anamateur or like a new artist.
She was like you need someonewith real ability because
(51:07):
otherwise they can really screwthat up.
And then what?
Speaker 2 (51:10):
Yes, and then you're stuck with it.
I will tell you it.
Also, don't ask me about tattooideas.
One of my toxic ADHD traits isimpulsivity.
I will do anything withoutthinking about it, which leads
me to that point.
Yes, please research yourtattoo artist.
Psa for everyone.
Don't go to a random tattooartist if you have not fully
researched them.
(51:30):
I have a massive tattoo on myIf you have not fully researched
them.
I have a massive tattoo on myhip and it's so, oh, it's so bad
, it's so bad, it's so bad.
Then I got it covered up by thesame guy because, again,
impulsivity is not my strongsuit.
Well, I guess it is my strongsuit.
Should have just gotten itlayered off, but no, now I've
(51:51):
got a cover-up that's evenbigger on my hip and it's
beautiful.
Speaker 1 (51:56):
Nice, it's beautiful.
It makes for a good story.
Speaker 2 (51:59):
It does make for a good story until you see it, and
then you just feel real sorryfor me.
Speaker 1 (52:05):
Let's look at my arms .
Let's focus up here.
Speaker 2 (52:07):
Exactly.
Look at these.
These are nice.
Speaker 1 (52:10):
Yeah, exactly, I have many.
No, it's fun.
I think it's fun.
Maybe someday I'll take theplunge, but it's been great.
Speaker 2 (52:20):
We're almost at an hour.
Look at us.
Speaker 1 (52:22):
No way, this is your first podcast.
You're a true pro, sound greatand it's just been amazing all
of your insight.
So any final thoughts ADHD ingeneral or people out there that
are struggling, kind of whatthey can do and then how people
can find you on LinkedIn andyour website.
Speaker 2 (52:43):
I'll put it in the show notes too, thank you.
Yeah, I think, honestly, forpeople with ADHD that are
struggling, there is light atthe end of the tunnel.
Your brain is not broken, it isjust different, and you just
have to find those differentsolutions that work for you.
But, honestly, take the time toinvest in yourself.
Take the time to show up foryourself, because it is so worth
it.
Do the hard work now.
You will scream this from therooftops, tom Cruise style of
(53:04):
jump on the couch.
Your brain is beautiful and youdeserve to see that.
You deserve to be able to workwith it and feel comfortable
using it, because I guarantee ithas given you so many gifts
(53:24):
that you aren't aware of yet.
But you can be.
So invest in yourself, take thetime.
Speaker 1 (53:29):
Love it, and where can people find you if they want
more information?
Speaker 2 (53:32):
time, Love it, and where can people find you if
they want more information?
Yes, so I have a.
Obviously my LinkedIn.
My LinkedIn handle is CaitlinJohnson, ADHD coach.
Come connect with me, schedulea call with me.
I would love to chat and I'mbuilding a website now not
finished, slowly but surely, andso once that, once that goes
out, I'll have it LinkedIn onlinked on my LinkedIn anyways.
Speaker 1 (53:53):
Awesome, sounds good.
Looking forward to seeing andhearing more about that.
Thanks so much for your timeand energy today.
Speaker 2 (53:57):
Thank you, and we'll talk soon.
This has been so fun, soundsgood.
Speaker 1 (54:01):
Thanks.
Welcome to the Real you Podcast.
This is Episode 30.
I'm David Young, your host.
I'm a LinkedIn content andbusiness coach.
I help coaches with less than3,000 followers grow their
businesses through betterstorytelling and content
creation.
I launched this podcast inMarch of 2024 to spotlight
interesting people doing amazingthings, and today I'm joined by
Kaitlin Johnson, an ADHD coachand former HR professional.
(00:22):
Kaitlin helps adults with ADHDditch the one size fits all
hacks and instead createspersonalized strategies that
work for their unique brains andlifestyles.
She's passionate about helpingpeople play to their strengths
and build systems that are bothsustainable and effective.
We'll discuss her journey, thepositives of living with ADHD
and how to turn those challengesinto opportunities for growth.
Caitlin, thank you so much formaking time and coming on the
(00:43):
show today.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Thank you for having me.
I'm so excited.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Absolutely, and this is your first podcast.
I just learned.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
It is.
It's my very first one, soyou'll have to forgive all of my
nervous little tics.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
That's fun.
No, you'll be great.
It's just like we were chattingbeforehand.
It's just the red button's onnow, so it's the same same.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
It's about the same thing.
I've got my emotional supportcoffee.
I'm good to go.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Perfect, so thanks for coming on.
We've gotten to know each otherpretty well the last few months
we started working together, Ithink in like August or
September, I reached out to justoffer you some help because you
were kind of new to LinkedIn.
I think you'd gotten laid offor something happened with your
previous job.
So yeah, so it's been funwatching your growth and seeing
you on LinkedIn and trying tohelp you just a little bit.
(01:26):
So yeah, it's been great to getto know you.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
We've helped a lot.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
I appreciate that, but no, you've been great,
you've really taken to theplatform and your content is
good and what you're offering isreally good because I think
there's a need for it.
I think there's a lot of whatyou've talked about in your
content.
There's a lot of confusionaround ADHD, and so you try to
help clarify that.
So I love what you're doing andkind of how it's going for you.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Thank you, thank you, and yeah, I mean it is.
It was really eye-opening tostart doing this and see just
how many people really don'tunderstand ADHD.
We grow up hearing that we'relazy or we're just not
productive, or we're not madefor this or too sensitive or
whatever.
We hear a lot of these littlecriticisms throughout our lives
and, you know, we grow intoadults thinking I just can't do
(02:11):
it, and that's simply not thecase for people with ADHD.
Granted, some things might be alittle bit more difficult, but
ADHD has so many gifts thatpeople are unaware of ADHD.
Brains really can be amazing,and I'm so excited to be able to
share that with people.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Nice.
When did you?
I don't know what the rightword is.
Is it diagnosed?
The right word?
Okay?
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Yeah, yeah, yeah Diagnosed.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
When, like when, were you diagnosed?
Speaker 2 (02:32):
So I was diagnosed when I was about 15.
And so my mom brought me intothis doctor.
I guess I don't really know ifhe even specialized it in the
time.
There was very little researchat that point about ADHD.
20 years ago he ended up doingthese computer tests where I
would you know, see something onthe computer and click buttons
(02:55):
and still remember it being oneof the most overwhelming
experiences of my life.
And, lo and behold, I get thediagnosis and it was put on
medication and that's at thetime.
That's really all we had.
Adhd is treated via medicationand so, as a result, I largely
ignored my diagnosis for a lotof years, a lot of years which
(03:19):
didn't really help managesymptoms at all.
Honestly, it was almost a giftin a way, because I think as a
teenager you don't reallyunderstand those differences and
how to stand up for yourself,how to show up for yourself, but
as an adult you have a littlebit more self-awareness.
So, honestly, it was helpfulthen coming back to ADHD in my
20s and trying everything that Icould find to help manage
(03:42):
symptoms and really thenultimately finding the systems
and the solutions that workedfor me.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
No, that's interesting and that's a good
way to reframe to look at it,that it was kind of helped you
in the long run.
Did you have to experiment withdifferent medicines and
different doses, or were theyable to?
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Oh yeah, no, it's constant experimentation and you
know that'll probably continue,honestly, because people change
and our bodies change and weage and mature and all of that
stuff.
So I've probably been on ohgosh, like four or five
different medications.
I take Adderall at this point,which has been my favorite so
far.
Eventually, when the price goesdown a little bit, I want to
(04:21):
try Vyvanse, which people say isreally great.
I think it's a constantexperimentation based on what
your body needs at thatparticular time, how your brain
is changing.
But yes, short answer.
Yes, I experimented a lot.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Yeah, because my oldest.
He's now 15.
He first got diagnosed when hewas about 11, four years ago,
and how it came up was that hewas coming home in the fifth
grade doing like three hours ofhomework.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
And we were like this is not normal.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
It's a lot of homework, yeah, for fifth
graders like something's goingon.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
So we started talking to the teacher and like well,
we give him time in class, buthe doesn't do it and so it piles
up, and so they don't do thetest piles up and so they don't
do the test.
They don't do the click thebutton test anymore.
Now it's, there's aquestionnaire and so like I fill
it out, my wife filled it out,and then we get three of his
teachers to fill it out and thenthat goes to the doctor and
then, based on the answers toall of those, they decide.
(05:17):
But they still they bring himback for an appointment.
And then you review the answersand then at that point you're
like yes or no much bettermethod so for him it was kind of
a like definitely, and thenmedication would help, and so
he's been on some form ofmedication and it makes a huge
difference, like once he, oncehe started on the meds, then he
basically had no homework.
It went from three hours tonone, because now he was able to
(05:38):
do it in school yeah, yeah so,but it's, but he doesn't like
the way it makes him feel.
It's because he doesn't feellike he's himself, and so it's
almost like two brains, like onmed brain, off med brain, but it
makes such a difference Like heunderstands that he needs it.
So, yeah, it's, it'schallenging and it'll be
interesting to see, like yousaid, like as he grows and he's
(05:59):
got another 10 years of braindevelopment, like what, what
that will look like and like allthat kind of stuff there's a
lot like.
There's a lot more to it than Iwould have ever like known from
the outside.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
There really is, and it's interesting that you say
that because I hear that a lot,especially with younger people,
so people who are under 25, theystop taking ADHD medication
because of that exact reason.
It doesn't make them feel likethemselves and I don't know the
science really behind that.
I don't know if you know, untilyour brain fully develops, if
(06:31):
it does something different, butI have heard that a lot.
Has he experimented withdifferent medications?
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Yeah, so I don't know all of them.
A lot of them are generic, sothe names won't matter.
So he has played around with it.
Where he is now, which isworking pretty well, is he takes
a full dose of one in themorning and then he does a
booster at maybe one o'clock,something like that, and then
that gets him through the prettymuch through the day and then
he has typically practiced, youknow, after school.
So that usually gets himthrough that and that's working
(07:05):
pretty well.
Again, he doesn't love it, buthe knows that he needs it.
Also suppresses his appetite alittle bit, so we had to play
around.
The first one he was on wasmuch more of an appetite
suppressant, which was not goodfor him at all, because he needs
to gain weight.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
He's a growing boy.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
He's growing and he's skinny anyways, and so like
that was not good, so what he'son now is better.
It still suppresses a bit butit's not nearly as severe as the
other one.
But it is again kind of trialand error and dosing and like
when to take it and like allthat kind of stuff.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
Yeah, there is a lot of it.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
When you moved.
You know, as you're into your20s and you start kind of taking
a little deeper dive, like whatwas, what were some of the
strategies or what did you kindof find once you started looking
for ways to not just rely onthe medicine but to really start
like trying to help yourself?
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Yeah, yeah, you know it has been such a journey
because and I think all of uswith ADHD in this attempt to
help ourselves, we start outmyself included with these kind
of generic hacks, so things thatyou can find on the internet
the Pomodoro method, or blockyour time this way, or develop
(08:14):
this extensive routine, followthis routine, and it's like the
intention behind these tips andtricks and hacks.
It's good, it's really good,but it just doesn't work for a
neurodivergent brain.
These are designed byneurotypical brains and they
work great for neurotypicalbrains, adhd brains.
They have a harder time withthose hacks.
They just don't work and whatit ends up doing is we start
(08:38):
with these hacks.
They work at first and thenthey don't work and it kind of
brings us deeper into this whole, this lack of self-confidence,
lack of self-esteem.
I just can't do it, I'm justbroken, which is not the case.
And so, ultimately, what I foundthe key to managing ADHD is
understanding ADHD, reallyunderstanding how ADHD presents,
(09:00):
for in this case, I had tounderstand how ADHD presented
for myself, because it isdifferent for everybody.
So I learned a ton about mybrain.
I learned about the brain ingeneral.
I examined my symptoms, my ADHDtraits and then biggest
difference was practicingself-acceptance, honestly
building that confidence andrealizing that ADHD is not this
(09:23):
life sentence, it's notsomething that dooms you to fail
, it's just a different brain.
Accepting that and realizingthat and coming to terms with
just having a different brainwas you're going to hate me for
saying this.
It was a game changer.
I'm sorry for using that word.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
All out today.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
Thank you, but it really was.
I mean, it just made all thedifference.
It's just accepting myself forwho I was and it sounds so
cheesy, but with an ADHD brain,that is the key the way that our
brains work.
I hate that there's ascientific reason for this, but
there is.
We tend to focus on thenegative and then, when we hear
(10:05):
something negative, weinternalize it and then we
ruminate and so it sticks withus.
And again, the way that ourbrains work.
We constantly replay thesenegative things over and over,
and, over and over again and itjust becomes this cycle.
And until you findself-acceptance, until you start
to love that part of yourselfthat you've been told is broken,
(10:28):
you really don't have thefoundation to be able to help
your symptoms right.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
Yeah, that's a great point.
I mean it's the whole.
Like you go to your favoriterestaurant 10 times.
The first nine are great, the10th one's a terrible experience
.
Which one do you tell everybodyabout?
Right, it's the negative.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
Exactly Right, because, again, like you said,
biologically wired.
So it's interesting the analogythen to then focus on the
negative, like, oh, I have thiswhatever neurodivergent brain,
it's not, quote unquote, normal.
And then you focus on like that, like yeah, so I think that's a
great first step, that mindsetof like this, this is what I
(11:03):
have, this is, these are, thisis the hand I've been dealt.
So what's?
How can I maximize it?
Like what, what can I do tohelp it?
Now, with ADHD, I know, cause Ihave OCD, which is not related,
but it's at least somewhere inthe adjacent space and I know
for OCD there's differentcategories.
So there's, like you know,moderate to mild and there's
like moderate to severe andthere's severe.
(11:24):
Does ADHD kind of have asimilar like variations of like
how you have it?
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Yeah, yeah, it does.
I mean some people theirsymptoms present more severely
than others.
But there are, technicallyspeaking or medically speaking,
there are three types of ADHD.
So you have hyperactive ADHD,which is exactly how it sounds.
It's a lot of physicalhyperactivity.
You have inattentive ADHD,which again is similar to how it
sounds.
(11:51):
You have a hard time findingmotivation, finding focus, and
then there's the combination.
So the hyperactive, inattentiveand that is what most people
have, that's the most commonform of ADHD.
Is this hyperactive inattentive?
And an important clarificationtoo is hyperactive doesn't
necessarily mean physical.
It's important to clarify thatthat hyperactivity can be felt
(12:14):
in your brain as well.
So when ADHD people talk abouthaving chaos swirling around in
their heads or not being able toidentify a single thought,
that's a form of hyperactivityas well, and that's typically
the hyperactivity that you seewith adults.
Kids.
You're going to see thephysical hyperactivity.
My four-year-old has ADHD andchild cannot sit still.
She's bouncing off the walls,literally, literally bouncing
(12:36):
off the walls all the time.
But as she grows and as herbrain develops, we might see her
start to kind of merge into thebrain.
You know inside hyperactivityas well.
So it does change as you grow.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
Interesting Now, can you outgrow it, so like once you
get past?
You cannot, so if you have someform of it, you will always
have it.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
You will always have it and you can learn to
compensate for your symptoms,but you will always have ADHD.
So ADHD is actually, if youwere to look inside someone's
brain, if you compare, like aneurotypical brain with a
neurodivergent brain, there areactual physical differences in
those brains that are not evergoing to go away.
(13:20):
So you're born with ADHD andyou cannot upgrow ADHD going to
go away.
So you're born with ADHD andyou cannot outgrow ADHD.
But again, you can start bycompensating for some of those
symptoms or you can learn tocompensate for some of those
symptoms.
And that's another reallyimportant thing that I wish
people understood more aboutADHD is you know exactly what
you said You're born with it.
(13:41):
You can't outgrow it.
But some people experience whatwe call adult onset ADHD and
this is when you start bylearning how to compensate for
your symptoms.
You compensate early on, butsomething happens a stressful
event, a stressor in general andyou start to see these symptoms
and a lot of times these peopleare misdiagnosed because this
(14:04):
idea of adult onset ADHD isfairly new, but symptoms can
start showing up later in lifeand it's still ADHD.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
Interesting.
Now, do you think it's abenefit or neutral to have it be
adult onset versus knowing youhave it when you're?
Speaker 2 (14:22):
Yeah, I think it depends on how you handle it.
Honestly, I think one morenegative aspect of maybe having
adult onset ADHD is thediagnosis process.
In a lot of these diagnosesprocesses these days, a doctor
will ask you did you experiencesymptoms before age 12?
(14:43):
And if you answer no, they willnot diagnose you with ADHD.
So beware, if you've gone toget a diagnosis and someone asks
you did you experience symptomsbefore age 12?
Run, because that is not anaccurate way of diagnosing ADHD.
So in that sense, adult onsetADHD might be a little bit
harder to diagnose.
You've also learned tocompensate for some of these
(15:03):
symptoms already that might haveshown up when you're earlier,
younger, so it might be morecomplicated.
But I also think you have thematurity and the self-awareness
when you're older to approachdealing with symptoms in a
different way, right.
So you have the self-awarenessto say hey, this particular
activity screen time, forexample makes my brain feel more
(15:24):
chaotic when I'm done.
I should reduce my screen time,whereas a kid is going to go to
screen time and think this isreally fun.
I'm going to do it forever andnot notice what happens
afterwards.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
That's so true.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
I think it depends.
I think it depends.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
My youngest would play Fortnite forever if we'd
let them my three would do theexact same thing.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
I mean, it is constant.
Can we get on the screens?
Can we play video games?
No, we're on the screens foreight hours.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
So yeah it's.
I mean, they've done a good job.
They're addicting.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Yeah, they are.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
So with your four-year-old?
How?
How are you?
How did you know that she hadit?
Since most kids that age areeasily distracted, are bouncing
off the walls right, that's apretty normal behavior pattern
(16:13):
for most four-year-olds.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
So how are you able to figure that out for her?
Yeah, good question.
So it's interesting.
I knew that there was somethingkind of a little bit different
about her when she was monthsold, when it started out with
sleep.
She would not sleep through thenight.
In fact, I think she was threeyears old before she slept
through the night for the firsttime, and still it's very
sporadic.
She rarely is able to sleepthrough the night, and that's
(16:35):
one of the hallmarks of ADHD isthese sleep disorders or sleep
troubles, and we took her toneurologists, to pediatricians.
We tried everything, but it'sjust the way that her brain
works.
The chemicals in her brain justmake sleep a little bit more
difficult.
So that was the first thingthat I noticed with hers is
(16:56):
sleep was tough, to say theleast.
And then the other big symptomthat she has is emotional
regulation.
She has a very hard timeregulating her emotions, which
is common with any four-year-oldor five-year-old and below.
It's not unheard of by anymeans, but she has an especially
difficult time.
(17:16):
She cannot calm her body downwhen she's feeling upset.
She needs to be physicallyremoved from a situation.
And when it comes to discipline, to be physically removed from
a situation, and when it comesto discipline, she can't.
She has an auditory processingissue as well, which is again
common with kids with ADHD.
She has to fully calm her bodydown before she can understand.
(17:42):
You know ways to handle it inthe future.
So it's you know, it's littlethings here and there that made
it evident that you knowsomething was a little bit
different than you know maybethe friends that she was playing
with.
But I think, when it comes tokids with ADHD is it's these
little things that add up to abigger, a bigger issue that
you're seeing.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
Yeah, I'm assuming you can't medicate kids that
young.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
You actually can.
I'm not going to medicate herjust because she's a baby, but
you can medicate kids, I thinkas young as four, but I don't
know.
I mean, I think in my opinion Iwould prefer to try other
methods of you know, kind ofcontrolling some of her symptoms
before medicating, just because, to your point, I mean, even
with your teenage son, he feelsdifferent on the medication.
(18:32):
You know, he has the words andthe self-awareness to describe
how he's feeling and how itmakes him feel, whereas younger
kids, they don't understand thatas well.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
No, that makes sense.
What are some of the top thingsthat you've learned about
yourself?
What you help your clients with, non-medication related but
just and I know it depends,obviously because you said it's
different for everyone, but I'massuming there's some go-to.
After you learn about it andyou accept it, or you're able to
at least move towardsacceptance, then what can you
(19:03):
start to do then?
To like give yourself the bestchance to operate at your
highest level?
Speaker 2 (19:08):
Yeah, so I have found with 99% of my clients, when
ADHD is present and they'rehaving trouble managing symptoms
, there is often something belowthe surface that is
exacerbating ADHD symptoms orpreventing these um, you know
(19:29):
solutions from from actuallyworking.
And so, um, typically there'ssome underlying trauma that has
occurred that is still presentwithin um, you know, within the
body, within brain, that that isagain exacerbating it.
And my parents died in a firewhen I was three years old and I
(19:54):
watched it happen.
Like it doesn't have to be thatintense.
It could be a bad breakup.
It could be getting fired froma job you loved, you know,
anything that has had an impacton you.
I have found that people withADHD have a harder time really
moving past those experiencesand likely it has to do with
(20:15):
something called RSD, which isrejection, sensitive dysphoria.
But it's something that a lot ofpeople with ADHD have a
challenging time dealing withand it makes you more sensitive
to emotional experiences.
It gives you bigger emotionalreactions and it also is part of
(20:35):
the reason that you'reinternalizing a lot of these
traumas that are happening andwhy you're not able to move past
them.
So with a lot of my clients wego back in time, so to speak,
and we reframe these experiencesthat have caused us distress,
and so we change our perspectivea little bit.
We look at it from athird-party perspective because
(20:59):
not for nothing, sometimes ourbrains and our memories do lie
to us in a sense, and when we goback and we re-examine these
experiences, we can see themfrom a different lens that
doesn't feel quite as traumatic,or we can be the support, be
the guidance for our youngerselves that we wish we had at
the time, and I found that to bereally helpful in at least
(21:21):
providing the foundation to thenstart managing ADHD symptoms.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
That's interesting.
I would not have thought ofthat and I'm assuming most of
your clients probably don't makethat connection either.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
They don't.
They don't.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
So it's.
You know how that's?
Well, I mean, it makes senselogically that it's tied
together, but it seems like sucha different.
The trauma doesn't seem related.
But then you realize it's kindof all interconnected.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
It is.
It is especially when, againwith ADHD, you do internalize
and then you ruminate, andthat's you know.
I don't know how scientific youwant to get here, but it's
thanks to essentially a brokenlever within the brain that
leads your imagination to alwaysbe on and not shut down your
(22:08):
imagination.
With ADHD, it's very difficultto do that, and so it allows
your thoughts to run away withthemselves and go down these
rabbit holes and come up withthese very negative scenarios
that we then feed back toourselves.
And so when we have thesetraumatic experiences, they're
constantly rerunning in ourbrains until we actively find
(22:30):
ways to, you know, shrink them.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
Yeah, and see, and I think that's where the overlap
to OCD is, because that's what Ithat was like the worst of my
OCD was Really.
It wasn't so much past what Iwould call traumatic experiences
, but it was something currentthat I then would play on a loop
that I couldn't stop playing.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Interesting.
So how do you remedy that then?
What do you do to stop the loop?
Speaker 1 (22:57):
These days it's a combination of therapy,
medication, exercise, breathingtechniques and just awareness of
what's happening and almostlike getting outside of your
body and looking at it, likeobserving yourself in the third
party, which is very difficultto do, but just and it's.
(23:18):
I mean, I've had it for a longtime, so it's a lot of just
practice and years, so that, Ithink, is everything you've
described.
That's the one thing that Ifeel like is most that I can
really understand.
The most is those likerepetitive thoughts and you,
just you, simply can't get ridof them.
Mine would sometimes go at itsworst, probably three days,
(23:40):
maybe longer, of just constant.
I had no way to break it.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
Yeah, it's exhausting .
Speaker 1 (23:47):
It is Other than sleeping.
If I could sleep, that wouldstop it, but if I was awake
there was almost nothing else Icould do.
I could do it temporarily If Iworked on something that
required high focus.
I would play chess.
Sometimes I'd have to thinkabout the game or the moves, but
as soon as that was over, itwould come right back, so it was
only temporary yeah yeah,that's a good point.
(24:07):
It is extraordinarily exhaustingmentally and physically.
And then you're always.
For me it was always like Iwalked on eggshells, because
you're always trying to avoid,like the next one.
You never knew when the nextone was going to happen.
So it was just constant, likeyou're always just on defense,
you know, like all the time.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
Fight or flight and then it just leads to burnout so
quickly.
And then, once you're inburnout mode, then it's, this
vicious cycle starts up again.
You're so exhausted it's hardto do the things and, by the way
, the things that you do for OCD, same things that people with
ADHD do as well to kind of tryto combat that.
But once you're in burnout mode, your first instinct is not to
(24:44):
go to mindfulness meditationexercise.
You're exhausted, you just wantto sit there and then, when
you're sitting there, of coursegoing back into that cycle.
It's tough.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
Yeah, for sure, the breathing is a relatively new
one for me and that one hashelped quite a bit, because
that's what I like about thatone is I can do it real time.
So if something, if I gettriggered, I can just instantly
go to some paced breathing, someforced breathing, and it's
amazing how quickly you canstart to like not necessarily
neutralize it, but you canreally start to slow its
(25:16):
progression almost immediately.
So that's been really key.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
That's awesome.
What's your favorite?
I'm sorry, go ahead, go ahead.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
No, just like I said, that's relatively new and I
don't think I would have gottenthere 10 or 15 years ago.
I think I would have rejectedthat.
I don't know if I have afavorite.
There's one that I do.
That's like two inhales.
I didn't even know you could dothis, but you go second inhale
and then you hold it and thenyou let it out that one, because
it's a brain interrupter,because you have to think about
(25:47):
you won't breathe that waynaturally.
So to take that first inhaleand then take the second one,
like your brain has to focus onthat second inhale, you can't do
it otherwise.
Maybe you could train yourself,but most people, if you tell
them to take two inhales, theyhave to be like hold on, Did I
just?
yeah, so you.
So it almost immediately A,forces your brain off of what
(26:09):
you're trying to think of, andthen B, you're getting the
nervous system relaxation withthe actual deeper breathing, and
you're holding it and you'reletting out.
You can hold it at the end andthere's obviously I mean,
there's tons of different waysto do it, but that's the one
that I probably go to instantlyif I have something that's
potentially problematic.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
That's the breathing that they told me to do when I
was in labor.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
Oh really.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
I think it calms physical sensations too, and
that of course when you're inlabor.
Oh really, I think it calmsphysical sensations too, and
that you know.
Of course, when you're in laboryou're freaking out.
I think it just yeah to yourpoint of calm is like the
nervous system too.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
But it does work.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
Well, and that's the idea, is the consistent
breathing practice.
You kind of you try to keepyour nervous system in a
relatively calm state.
It's much easier than when youget triggered or something
happens.
Your reactions and everythingjust comes from a totally
different place, whereas whatyou talked about, like if you're
in that state of fight orflight or burnout or agitated,
(27:07):
and then something happens, likeyou're just much more quickly
move to overreacting, yelling,whatever, and then and then, and
it just like you said it justkeeps you, just keep spinning
you can't, can't get out right.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
It's so hard, but it's all about like maintenance,
right?
It's like same as healthyeating.
You know you eat healthy sothat you don't develop these
chronic illnesses that thenrequire you to spend, you know,
years of your life in a hospitalor taking medication.
It's all about maintenanceversus.
You know the reactive response.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
Yeah, for sure.
So as you move people, you'rehelping them kind of identify
the traumatic past and thenreframe that think about it
differently Then, like what'sthe next step?
Like where do you then movethem after to kind of keep
progressing?
Speaker 2 (27:58):
Yeah, so we talk about lifestyle.
So I think one of the mostimportant things with ADHD and,
honestly, even if you don't haveADHD is not pushing yourself
past your limit or notintroducing a million different
changes or things at once,because it becomes unsustainable
.
You know, if you take the babysteps, then you've got these
sustainable solutions, thesesustainable routines that end up
(28:21):
helping a lot more than if youwere to write down, you know, an
entirely new morning andevening routine that you're
going to follow.
You know, step by step, everyday.
It's like nobody's going tostick with that long-term and I
mean, I guess maybe it's likesuperhuman people can, but I
cannot, I cannot.
So we typically, with clients,examine what works and what
(28:43):
doesn't work in their lifestylesand then we take the things
that do work and we build onthat.
So we always want to start froma place of positive response.
Instead of making a bunch ofchanges.
It's like, well, okay, what canwe add in that?
You know that you can maintain,that feels good, that feels
natural, that we can then buildon.
It's like when, I don't know,you remember, like these diet
(29:06):
culture, when it was like, ifyou want to lose weight, if you
want to be Kate Moss skinny, youhave to remove all these things
from your diet, and it's likepeople would go on these crash
diets and they'd be so muchworse off than they were before.
It's like the same approach.
It's like, instead of taking amillion things away, let's just
add in one proactive thing at atime, baby steps, build upon
(29:28):
this routine until it feelsnatural.
You know there is an element ofdiscipline in there, but don't
force yourself to go all out.
You're setting yourself up tofail.
It's this idea of being kinderto yourself and meeting yourself
where you are, instead oftrying to completely overhaul
anything.
I mean that's a shock toanybody's system, especially a
(29:50):
neurodivergent brain.
Transitions and change are hardanyway.
Why make it harder on yourself?
Speaker 1 (29:56):
yeah, I mean that's a great point for almost any new
endeavor or anything you'retrying to tackle, that you can
really only add like one or twothings at a time, depending on
their complexity, and if you tryto make, yeah, eight changes at
once, I mean there's just, youliterally won't do it no, it's
overwhelming as heck.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
And then you end up feeling worse about yourself
when you can't do it, becausewho can do it long term?
Nobody.
You're going to end up justfeeling shitty, sorry.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
Well, I mean, and with the new year coming up and
all the resolutions and I thinkthat's a big one is that people
just they try to do everythingright.
They look at their money andtheir finances and their job and
their career and theirrelationships and it's like,
yeah, you can't solve all thoseon January 2nd, like that's not
going to happen, so pick one.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
Like two areas of one and then move that in the right
direction, then pick two more.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
Exactly.
I used to work at a gym incollege and it was like a
running joke because January 1st, you'd see, oh my God, the gym
is packed, like no machine isleft untouched, like everybody
is in the gym Come like February, march, dead.
It's just quiet, there's nobodythere.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
I mean it's, yeah, it's.
I mean you hear and see it allthe time and I don't even know
what the percentage ofresolutions that fail, but it's
an extremely high number.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
So many.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
But I think it's again.
It sounds good, it looks good,it feels good for a couple of
weeks, and then your life takesover.
Normalcy kicks in Suddenly it'sJanuary 16th.
It has no real special time.
You're like fuck it, I'm goingto stop.
Speaker 2 (31:28):
Exactly, I'm not doing it, I don't feel like it
and you're going to.
I mean, everybody losesmotivation at some point, so you
have to make sure that whenyou're adding these things in,
it's not going to be super hardto get that motivation back when
you inevitably lose it.
Like no one is able to keepmotivation nonstop, you know,
forever.
(31:48):
People have ebbs and flows,right?
So it's like set yourself upfor success.
Don't try to do everything atonce.
I saw oh my God, I saw a poston LinkedIn this guy talked
about he worked for it was likeover a month straight, every
single day, for 14 hours a day,and he's like and I don't regret
(32:09):
any second of it because hereare the things that I got done
and I'm good for him.
If it works for you, it worksfor you.
But, oh my God, like to be inyour brain right now.
I was like I was having heartpalpitations just reading that.
It's like be kind to yourself.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
Yeah, that's not sustainable.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
No.
Speaker 1 (32:30):
The other thing too, and I think another reason why
people quit so quickly, is welive in such an instant results
society right, everything'sdownloadable and streaming and
Uber, eats and microwaveEverything is quickly.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
Instant gratification .
Speaker 1 (32:44):
Amazon same day deliveries, all of it.
So we then want that to happenfor things that you're not able
to do that.
So chances are if you aresigning up for a gym membership,
you probably haven't been goingto the gym, so you're probably
not in peak physical conditionto begin with.
So it's going to take longerthan two trips or two weeks of
going right, and so I thinkpeople don't see that really
(33:08):
dramatic shifts, which you won'tagain, especially depending on
where your baseline is.
So it's going to take a while.
So you have to kind of temperyour expectations.
It's no different than LinkedIn.
You can't just start posting onLinkedIn.
Nobody knows who you are andpeople just flock to your
business.
It doesn't happen that way.
It takes time and you have tobuild a network and
relationships and be consistentand comment on other people's
(33:29):
posts, and there's all thesethings you have to.
Like you can't start on January1st and by the 15th be full of
clients Like.
It just simply doesn't workthat way.
So I think people have to getout of that quick fix mentality.
Some things it's nice 100%.
But for the bigger stuff andwhen you're talking about, you
know, adhd or lifestyle changesor trauma healing or like much
(33:50):
deeper stuff, like it's justgoing to take longer.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
It takes effort and it's not easy, but you know you
have to be able to show up foryourself and invest in yourself,
right?
I mean?
That is the greatest gift thatyou can give yourself and, to
your point, this instantgratification is, for sure, a
challenge for people with ADHDand for everybody, but ADHD it's
a challenge for me, I mean,especially now to your point.
(34:15):
We've got Amazon, we've got thesmartphones, we've got
literally everything at ourfingertips and it's hard to then
wait for results, like I I meanwe were talking about the gym
Like I have been guilty of thisa million times, I will.
I'm quite small.
You can't really tell with theclothes.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
I wear but small.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
But I don't have.
I, I don't, you know, go to thegym regularly.
I I'm not toned so, but I havefallen into this trap a million
times where I'm like I'm goingto get ripped.
I'm going to get ripped, I'mgoing to look great Like
swimsuit season.
Here I come, I will go to thegym for two weeks and obviously
I'm not going to see anydifference in two weeks.
But after two weeks I'm like Ijust I don't.
(34:56):
I don't have muscles, theydon't exist in my body, it's
just, it's gel.
It's this idea of instantgratification.
You've got to manage yourexpectations and come at these
resolutions or goals withrealistic and finder, you know,
end goals in mind.
You know, maybe I'm not, youknow, going to go to the gym and
(35:20):
be ripped, but is that the realreason?
I should be going to the gym?
Go to the gym to be healthy andthen, as a result, you manage
your expectations a littlebetter.
Speaker 1 (35:31):
Yeah, and that's.
I talked to my wife aboutworking out and we talk about
just like life, fitness.
Right, you're not, because I'm.
Usually, if I'm going to the, Idon't go to the gym much.
Most of the stuff I do is justaround the house.
But yeah if I'm doing somethingwith enough intensity, I'm
usually training for some kindof race.
But she doesn't do that likeshe's not gonna race, it's just
not.
She's not interested in it andI'm.
(35:52):
That's totally fine.
More people were in your campthan are in mine, but you're
doing it.
Cardio and the strengthtraining and all that kind of
stuff is for life.
You want to be just physicallystronger to withstand.
Her job is very draining Fightoff illness, play with your kids
.
There's all these things thatyou just want to be quote
(36:12):
unquote in shape, for it hasnothing to do with running a
certain mile or lifting acertain amount of weight, and so
I think a lot of people forgetthat.
That's a good reason Like thatcan be your race can be your
life.
Um, I was having Lisa Klein on.
I don't know if you know Lisa,she was saying that to me.
She she's just came on thepodcast last week and we were
(36:33):
talking about that and I thinkshe was the one that was saying
like if you need motivation andyou don't have a specific goal,
then make your life themotivation.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
I love that I can't wait to listen to that one.
It sounds incredible.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
She used to be a health and wellness coach and
she did that for like 10 yearsand so she just had a lot of
experience talking to people andI think she worked mostly with
women.
I'm not sure about that, butjust again, they were just
struggling to find motivation,that so she was trying to find
ways to like explain it to themand we were both kind of on the
same page with the you know justfor your life and she said it
(37:10):
better than I did but it's thesame principle that that can be
your motivation.
If you don't have I mean inswimsuit season or going to the
beach or the summer, obviously alot of people Right If it works
for you.
Right, spring break trip orsomething.
That's totally fine, there'snothing wrong with that, but
whatever, whatever you need, butyou just have to have the
longer, the longer goal in mind.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
Right, but that is hard for people with ADHD or
just neurodivergence in general.
These longer goals, it's kindof hard to you know to think
about something that far inadvance.
But you know it's this idea ofsitting with realistic
expectations and defining whatyour sense of success is.
You know, at least it wassaying make your life your, your
(37:51):
end result.
Lisa, I'm coming for you.
I want to talk.
Speaker 1 (37:55):
Sounds good, I can put you in touch.
Speaker 2 (37:58):
She sounds great.
I would love to.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
One of the things you talk about in your tagline and
your content is the hacks.
What are a couple of the prettycommon hacks that really don't
help?
Speaker 2 (38:11):
Yeah, planners, that's a big one.
I cannot tell you.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
I think you've made fun of me for this before you
have a list, you have a stack ofuntouched planners.
I have a stack.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
A stack, and it's true, because you get this idea
in your brain.
It's like this is the one, thisis the planner.
This is going to make me do it.
No, it's not, no, it, no, it'snot, no, it's not.
It didn't work the first 25times.
It's not going to work the 26thtime, but the other one.
That I say this, you know, takeit with a grain of salt,
because it does work for somepeople.
(38:43):
But the Pomodoro method justgrinds my gears.
I can't stand it.
It's this idea of, like working25 minutes and then you get a
three minute break, and then youwork 25 minutes and get a three
minute break.
Kill me now, toss me off thatcliff.
I cannot do it.
My brain will find any excuseto not finish those 25 minutes.
I will look at that timer andbe like, why would I listen to
(39:06):
this little piece of plastic?
I don't want to do this.
This is not going to make me dothis Pomodoro method.
No, thank you.
It just doesn't give thatmotivation.
Those are the two that I thinkthat I hear the most.
Or the wall calendar likeputting up a wall calendar, you
use it for one month and then itstays blank for the rest of the
year.
I think the reason these thingswind me up so much is because
(39:30):
of the effect on self-confidencethat they have.
You think, because of theeffect on self-confidence that
they have, you think I should beable to do this.
This was marketed for peoplewith ADHD.
Like I should be able to besuccessful at this.
Well, not necessarily.
It might work for Jimmy overhere, but Taylor over here needs
a different method.
So, blindly following thesegeneric hacks, these tips and
(39:53):
tricks that you can find on theinternet that guarantee success,
like, give me a break.
One, everybody's different.
And two, these hacks weredesigned to work for
neurotypical brains.
Neurodivergent brains workcompletely differently.
I mean, we mentioned it earlier, there are physical differences
in your brain.
When you have ADHD, yourcerebellum is smaller.
(40:14):
You've got differentconnections firing.
It's very interesting, but it'salso very telling.
The things that are designedfor people with a more typical
or more common brain, they'rejust not going to get the same
benefit.
They're not going to have thesame benefit if you put it in
front of a neurodiverse person.
(40:35):
So it's all about finding whatworks for you and designing
long-term solutions that you canimplement, put into your
existing lifestyle to make itsustainable.
But jumping from hack to hackto hack, you're wasting your
time.
Speaker 1 (40:49):
Yeah, no, that's a good point and, like you said,
it's different for everyone.
I'm actually reading the book.
It's called 4,000 Weeks.
Are you familiar with that book?
Speaker 2 (40:57):
You only have 4,000 Weeks anxiety-inducing, but it
is so eye-opening Are you readyso?
Eye-opening.
I've not read it yet, I've donethe SparkNotes version, but I
think it's actually number threeon my list right now.
It's up there.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
So I've had it for a while it's been sitting dormant
in my audible queue and lastweek, for some reason, I just
got motivated to book.
Now I start a lot of books andI almost never finish them, so I
was like, all right, this willbe another one, I'll start and
stop, and I've only read maybethree chapters.
It's really interesting and I'massuming he eventually is going
to get to, because it is aboutthe shortness of life, but it
(41:34):
also is, at least what I've readso far.
It's a lot about how time hacksand efficiency and productivity
is essentially all a scam andit's all a waste of time because
the more efficient andproductive you become, the more
efficient and productive youwant to become, and there's no
end.
And so there is no.
You don't ever solve it.
So it's.
You know.
It's similar to like the bestemployee who does the most work.
(41:57):
Then who does the boss give themost work, extra work to?
Exactly Because you've provenyou can take it on right.
Speaker 2 (42:02):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (42:03):
So it's like so it's.
And his point is not to likeobviously you want to try to be
efficient with your time, likeyou don't just like do whatever,
but that like the techniquesyou're talking about and the
planners, and there's all thesethings, and these days, right,
there's AI, there's all theseapps and it's it's endless.
(42:24):
And he's basically like you,just you just end up spinning
your wheels and you actuallydon't really accomplish nearly
what you like set out toaccomplish.
Anyway, that's his point so far, and maybe eventually it shifts
and maybe there is somethingthat he comes up with at the end
.
It's like you know, if you'regoing to do it, do this, but
it's interesting.
But yeah, I turned 50 in thesummer, next summer, and so,
reading that book, I'm like I'mactually.
I'm actually way.
I don't have that many weeksleft.
(42:46):
I'm down to like 1500.
Speaker 2 (42:49):
that's why the book is so anxiety inducing, why it
hasn't gone up in my list, causeit's like I have used so many
of my weeks.
What?
Speaker 1 (42:58):
are you doing for your 50th, though, do?
Speaker 2 (42:59):
you have fun plans.
Speaker 1 (43:00):
I don't know.
We've gone back and forth.
I wanted to go hiking out Westand my kids shut that down like
a Fortnite sniper.
Speaker 2 (43:08):
Like a Fortnite sniper.
Speaker 1 (43:10):
Yeah, so that that didn't last very long and then
we've just kicked around.
We've kicked around ideas.
Nothing has really stuck.
But we have to plan something,because July is now a lot closer
than it was, you know, in Marchwhen we first started talking
about it.
So, yeah, I don't know, we'llfind, honestly, it'll end up
being a beach and water, becausethat's what everybody wants and
we don't have that.
Speaker 2 (43:30):
Yeah, but you like the mountains, don't you?
You're the hiking mountains guy.
Speaker 1 (43:34):
I've actually never done it.
What, yeah, which is one of thereasons why I wanted to do it,
because I was like, oh, it'sdifferent.
Speaker 2 (43:39):
Oh my God, you have to go out west.
We took a family vacation in2018.
But we went out to Moab andColorado.
Oh, zion and Colorado, zion.
It was incredibly beautiful.
You know, you always think youhave to go overseas to find
these like gorgeous hikingplaces, like go hiking in the
(44:01):
Swiss Alps or you know, whateverNever done that would love to.
But oh my God, the amount ofjust natural beauty that you can
find in the United States.
Holy cow, we just went to.
Earlier this year we went toTucson my, my partner and I.
We went to saguaro nationalpark.
If you had told me before thetrip that I was going to be that
(44:22):
in awe of a desert, I wouldhave laughed in your face, but I
was in awe of the desert no,it's, it is.
Speaker 1 (44:29):
it is true how much is here and how you don't have
to take the exotic internationaltrips.
I think part of the problem isbecause I have a midsummer
birthday and so when we startedto think seriously about Utah
because we were going to do, Ithink there's five national
parks within four or five hoursor something.
But in the heat in July, rightyeah, it's so hot.
(44:49):
And so my kids were like know,we're not necessarily against
hiking, but like isn't it gonnabe 110 degrees?
Like how long are werealistically going to be able
to do it?
And then and they weren't wrongso I think we either would have
had to either move the trip upand take it in the spring, or
push it back and take it in thefall.
I just don't think summerhiking would have been, you know
, the best no, to try to do itaround the same time you know,
(45:13):
so it'll it'll probably just beum.
Well, so lisa, who I wasmentioning, she they do a trip
every year um to the outer banks, and so I love the outer banks.
That's my neck of the woodsyeah, so that's close to you, so
if we, maybe we'll make it overthere.
We've been to carolina.
We went to emerald isle three,four years ago, went to Hilton
(45:33):
Head two years ago, so we arefamiliar with kind of that part
of the country.
I don't know, but that'sprobably what it would be.
Yeah, I love it.
Speaker 2 (45:43):
So I grew up on the coast of North Carolina on an
island called Baltet Island, andthat one is a phenomenal family
vacation.
If you guys do want to do abeach, highly recommend it.
It's the best.
It was the most incredibleplace to grow up, and you have
to take a ferry to get there.
There's no cars, so it's reallysafe for kids, so they can go
(46:05):
out and do their own thing Y'allcan do your own thing, it's
like and then come back together.
It's awesome.
It's an awesome family vacationespecially if you have older
kids younger kids too nice.
Speaker 1 (46:17):
Yeah, we'll check that out.
So as we wrap up here, we'llfinish up with adc in a second.
Speaker 2 (46:20):
I want to ask about.
Speaker 1 (46:22):
Oh yeah I want to ask about your tattoos, because
people aren't going to see this,but we are on video, but you
have quite a few of them I doyou're.
You're rolling up your sleevenow and I can see more of them.
Speaker 2 (46:32):
There's a lot.
Speaker 1 (46:34):
How many did you have , when did you start getting
them and what's your long-termink plan?
Speaker 2 (46:45):
Okay, so my first tattoo.
I got on a street corner for 20bucks in a third world country
when.
I was 17 years old.
Wow, yes, did not use a newneedle, did not use new ink
Super safe, super safe.
Super safe.
Came back to the States I wasliving abroad at that time Came
back to the States and went withone of my girlfriends to get
her first tattoo and saw whatthe artist was doing like
(47:07):
opening up a new ink and youknow there's this plastic
wrapped needle and I immediatelybooked a blood test at the
local clinic to check that I didnot have like HIV or something.
I do not, I am perfectly healthyNarrowly missed that one but
they are truly addicting.
(47:29):
I mean, I have them.
You can see them everywhere,shoulder, like all the way down
my arm, all the way down thesearms.
They're addicting.
I mean, I have them.
You can see them everywhere,shoulder, like all the way down
my arm, all the way down thesearms.
They're addicting.
Speaker 1 (47:37):
So once you get one, like it's really hard to stop.
Speaker 2 (47:40):
Plus, this sounds so bizarre and maybe I don't even.
I don't know.
Maybe this is a neurodivergentthing, but I love the feeling of
getting a tattoo.
It hurts, but I I asleep on thetable before.
It's like free.
Well, it's not free becausethey're expensive, but it is
like therapy.
(48:00):
It is just like therapy, andthen you're exhausted afterwards
you take the best nap.
Highly recommend going to get atattoo.
Speaker 1 (48:09):
Interesting.
Speaker 2 (48:10):
So, yeah, I'll eventually just be fully covered
.
Uh, next time we talk I'm gonnahave them on my cheeks.
Get ready.
And then the teardropsteardrops.
Speaker 1 (48:18):
Yeah, there you go.
Yeah, because you've got a.
I can see a bunch.
You have a bunch on your arms,like your forearms and your
wrist, um, and stuff.
Do you just do you get them?
Is there any kind of like rhymeor reason?
Or you just get motivated.
You're like I'm gonna get oneand you just go a or reason or
you just get motivated andyou're like I'm going to get one
and you just go.
Speaker 2 (48:36):
A lot of times I just get motivated and just go.
One of the more recent ones, Iwonder if I can get it all the
way up.
You'll be able to see it.
This is a drawing from my kid'sfavorite TV show, bluey.
Speaker 1 (48:48):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (48:48):
The dad in Bluey drew this wonky horse thing and the
kids thought it was so funny andthey said you got to go get
this as a tattoo.
And the next day guess what Idid- Exactly that.
I got it as a tattoo, so therereally is no rhyme and reason.
I mean, I've got, I do have.
I don't think I can roll mysweater up that high, but up
(49:10):
here I do have.
All of my family and my bestfriends all drew a star and then
I got all of their starstattooed on my upper arm and so
it's like my whole universe ofall the people that I love on my
arm.
So some of them have somemeaning, others, like this wonky
little horse, just happened.
Speaker 1 (49:32):
No, I love it.
I don't have any for a longtime.
Well, when I was growing up,they weren't as popular, so it
was like getting one kind of wasmore it's very taboo yeah, now
obviously society has switchedand they're much more common and
people have them, and peoplehave sleeves and color and like
it's very, it's just gone theother way.
And so now I'm like okay, nowmaybe I shouldn't get one
because I'm more it's's.
The pendulum has swung, so Ithink I'm now more unique if I
(49:54):
don't have any.
Speaker 2 (49:55):
Exactly, exactly.
You're so, so much cooler ifyou don't have them now.
Speaker 1 (50:02):
But there's been a couple of times when I've gotten
like I don't know how serious,but I've at least like thought
about it, but I can never decidewhere, I can never decide what,
and then I just ended up, youknow, eventually going away.
When I first started thisjourney, I was going to get I
can send you the picture.
Speaker 2 (50:21):
It was a big, this huge lion mane like right here.
I like it.
Speaker 1 (50:24):
And I showed somebody and she talked me out of it
because she had several and shewas like first of all, that's
way too complicated for yourfirst one, because that's gonna
take.
It's gonna take forever, you'regonna need multiple sittings.
Uh, she was like, since youdon't have any, she was like I
would recommend getting a smallone first, just to make sure
that you're like down with theprocess.
And she was like, if that onegoes well, she was like then
(50:46):
well, and then the other thingshe was like.
She was like there aren't thatmany tattoo artists that can do
that.
What?
What I showed her?
She was like there aren't thatmany that can do that.
Well, so you're really going tohave to do some research.
You're going to have to talk topeople and make sure they're
capable, because that's not anamateur or like a new artist.
She was like you need someonewith real ability because
(51:07):
otherwise they can really screwthat up.
And then what?
Speaker 2 (51:10):
Yes, and then you're stuck with it.
I will tell you it.
Also, don't ask me about tattooideas.
One of my toxic ADHD traits isimpulsivity.
I will do anything withoutthinking about it, which leads
me to that point.
Yes, please research yourtattoo artist.
Psa for everyone.
Don't go to a random tattooartist if you have not fully
researched them.
(51:30):
I have a massive tattoo on myIf you have not fully researched
them.
I have a massive tattoo on myhip and it's so, oh, it's so bad
, it's so bad, it's so bad.
Then I got it covered up by thesame guy because, again,
impulsivity is not my strongsuit.
Well, I guess it is my strongsuit.
Should have just gotten itlayered off, but no, now I've
(51:51):
got a cover-up that's evenbigger on my hip and it's
beautiful.
Speaker 1 (51:56):
Nice, it's beautiful.
It makes for a good story.
Speaker 2 (51:59):
It does make for a good story until you see it, and
then you just feel real sorryfor me.
Speaker 1 (52:05):
Let's look at my arms .
Let's focus up here.
Speaker 2 (52:07):
Exactly.
Look at these.
These are nice.
Speaker 1 (52:10):
Yeah, exactly, I have many.
No, it's fun.
I think it's fun.
Maybe someday I'll take theplunge, but it's been great.
Speaker 2 (52:20):
We're almost at an hour.
Look at us.
Speaker 1 (52:22):
No way, this is your first podcast.
You're a true pro, sound greatand it's just been amazing all
of your insight.
So any final thoughts ADHD ingeneral or people out there that
are struggling, kind of whatthey can do and then how people
can find you on LinkedIn andyour website.
Speaker 2 (52:43):
I'll put it in the show notes too, thank you.
Yeah, I think, honestly, forpeople with ADHD that are
struggling, there is light atthe end of the tunnel.
Your brain is not broken, it isjust different, and you just
have to find those differentsolutions that work for you.
But, honestly, take the time toinvest in yourself.
Take the time to show up foryourself, because it is so worth
it.
Do the hard work now.
You will scream this from therooftops, tom Cruise style of
(53:04):
jump on the couch.
Your brain is beautiful and youdeserve to see that.
You deserve to be able to workwith it and feel comfortable
using it, because I guarantee ithas given you so many gifts
(53:24):
that you aren't aware of yet.
But you can be.
So invest in yourself, take thetime.
Speaker 1 (53:29):
Love it, and where can people find you if they want
more information?
Speaker 2 (53:32):
time, Love it, and where can people find you if
they want more information?
Yes, so I have a.
Obviously my LinkedIn.
My LinkedIn handle is CaitlinJohnson, ADHD coach.
Come connect with me, schedulea call with me.
I would love to chat and I'mbuilding a website now not
finished, slowly but surely, andso once that, once that goes
out, I'll have it LinkedIn onlinked on my LinkedIn anyways.
Speaker 1 (53:53):
Awesome, sounds good.
Looking forward to seeing andhearing more about that.
Thanks so much for your timeand energy today.
Speaker 2 (53:57):
Thank you, and we'll talk soon.
This has been so fun, soundsgood.
Speaker 1 (54:01):
Thanks.
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