Elections are great ways to learn about the best public speaking. Rishi Sunak, Keir Starmer, and Nigel Farage, as well as a huge number of supporting cast members will be trying their best to influence us over the next few weeks and any of us can study how good they really are.
We all need, sometimes to elevate our voices and captivate audiences, whether it's during an election season frenzy or at an intimate family gathering. We discuss the intricacies of public speaking, dissecting the pros and cons of different styles. Discover how to craft a message that resonates, whether you're addressing farmers, industrial workers, or wedding guests.
We'll guide you through the complexities of audience engagement, sharing actionable advice on tailoring your speeches to touch the hearts and minds of your listeners, ensuring your words leave an impact.
Navigating the art of communication is a dance of timing, humour, and respect. Discover the secrets to managing stage fright, the strategic use of cue cards, and the delicate balance of humour to keep your audience hooked. You'll learn how to handle unexpected reactions and respect your audience's time, enhancing your delivery to make every word count.
Step into the shoes of history's most influential orators, from Churchill to contemporary figures, to understand how their speeches have shaped public discourse and inspired change. By analysing notable speeches, we highlight the importance of preparation and the undeniable power of rehearsal. Whether it's igniting a nation's spirit in times of war or creating unforgettable personal memories, the essence of public speaking can define legacies.
Join us as we explore timeless techniques that empower you to leave your own mark on the world through the spoken word. Plus, can a politicians speech really persuade you to vote for them?
For more info, free resources, useful content & our blog posts, please visit realitytraining.com.
Reality Training - Selling Certainty
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
so I'm concentrating on delivering for the British
people, stopping the boats andthe others just haven't got a
plan.
Thank you, how do you thinkthat went?
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Yeah, yeah, good.
Do I really have to do thisevery day?
Yes, you do.
Yeah, you do Every day.
Okay, it's your job.
Wish I didn't.
Yeah, maybe a bit more planning, a bit more action, a bit more
energy, more energy.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
We'll talk about it later, okay.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Bob and Jeremy's Conflap the Reality Podcast.
Welcome to Bob and Jeremy'sConflab Public speaking.
What you just heard was a verypoor impression of our current
Prime Minister and the sort ofstuff that he says quite a lot
(01:05):
these days, and we thought we'dreturn to this topic because
public speaking is somethingwe're going to be seeing more
and more of in the next 12months as we approach a general
election, and we think there'ssome really important pointers
that we need to remind people of, and if people are not used to
(01:26):
public speaking, then there'stips they need to know or
they're just going to beappalling.
So we are reviving our veryfamous do's and don'ts format.
Our most popular one so far hasbeen conferences, do's and
don'ts, and now we're going todo public speaking do's and
don'ts, and I'd like to welcomemy friend and colleague to this,
jeremy Blake.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Hello, the other thing, listeners, I think to
recognize is, although we'relargely talking about how you
can impress in your speaking tosome form of public public you
may know they might be youremployees, of course but there's
also likely to be a time inyour life when you speak even
more publicly to some peoplethat you don't know so well, or
(02:07):
you know some of them, but notall of them.
This, of course, could be at awedding, it could be at a eulogy
, it could be at an awardsceremony.
We tend to have more free time.
You'll find that certain peoplewill ask you to present things
or get into committees or actiongroups or that sort of stuff,
(02:30):
so you may be jostled intopublic speaking, but largely
we'd love just speakers to bebetter.
So we've got different tips andideas and we will also be
hammering home some of theabsolute vitals, so do's and
don'ts of public speaking.
And I think just before we kickoff there was a survey taken in
the United States.
Do you remember this, bob?
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Ah, yes.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
The number one fear in the United States was not
dying.
It wasn't that, oh, that Icould die or have a heart attack
.
It was that I'd be asked togive a talk somewhere.
So the second thing that scaresthe north americans the most is
death, but the things are morescary, is what?
I'd have to speak somewhere.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
Yes, that's more scary maybe they should start
using it as reverse psychologyand if someone's very ill, you
just say, well, you may be ill,but we need you to make a speech
first, and that might actuallydivert them from the fact that
they're dying.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
It's not a bad idea, or it just cuts the waiting
lists down and they all haveheart attacks.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Well, it can be terrifying, and one of the
reasons that it's terrifying, ofcourse, is that people don't
prepare for them.
I mean, it sounds so obvious,but that's something you and I
have been training for years andit never seems to enter
people's consciousness.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
We've both done some research into this, and I've
come at it from a slightlydifferent angle, because I
recently have been delving intothe world of podcasts.
As a podcast presenter, Ithought it was only right that I
look at what else is going onout there, and so I've recently
been listening to a number ofvery good podcasts, and some of
them, of course, are all aboutpolitics, and the reason we we
(04:04):
kicked off with an example ofthe kind of stuff that Rishi
does is that I've heard on atleast three podcasts recently
that he just isn't verycomfortable standing at a podium
making speeches, which for apolitician, is an extraordinary
thing.
But he's not, of course, thefirst.
In fact, we only need to goback one prime minister to find
(04:25):
another person who was anappalling public speaker, and of
course that's Liz Truss.
So what we've had is two primeministers who are reluctant
speakers, who aren't very goodat public speaking, and I heard
recently on a podcast it was theRest is Politics that there's a
feeling going around thatpeople at number 10 are making
(04:47):
Rishi make almost daily speechesand statements just to get him
out in front of people, but forhim it's the most uncomfortable
thing that he has to do, becausehe's much more of a get on with
it inside person than a standthere and speak, and that's why
he often says the same thingsagain and again, because his
(05:07):
turn of phrase and his quicknessto respond isn't that great.
He needs to think about thesethings before he does it, you
know absolutely.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
I think we need to kick off with the number one do
which we talk about, which ispreparing.
But preparing breaks down intoa few areas and the number one
thing about public speaking thatis different to say presenting
to everybody, you know, isyou've got to do some kind of
analysis of your audience.
I'm going to have 50% of peoplethinking like this.
(05:37):
There could be 30% like that,20% like that.
You know it's breaking downyour audience and knowing where
the appeal goes and also whatthey want to hear.
So if you're a politician andyou have a room full of farmers,
then what do farmers need tohear?
If you're a politician, youhave a room full of industrial
people, you should be attuningit.
(05:57):
And this is one thing that Idon't see happening enough is
people have some core messages,but they're not analyzing their
audience enough.
So what do they believe?
What do they fear?
How do they feel?
What are their emotions?
What's their number one thing?
They want this kind of stuff.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Well, there's also a slightly different perspective
now, especially in politics, butI think it happens in business
too, where you look at youraudience and you think, if I can
bring 40 to 50% of these peoplewith me but also antagonize
another 40% odd of these peoplebecause some people don't give a
(06:33):
damn either way, that'sactually that means it plays
well for you.
And in fact if you watch anypolitical drama that's a term
that is used all the time oh, orthat played really well for us,
did it?
Yeah, it's a higher percentagegot that than the other side.
Or if loads of people didn'tlike what you said, sometimes
they'll do that to create anargument, to create a debate.
(06:55):
Now, I don't really mind that,actually, because I think least
then you are, you're makingstronger statements, which is is
getting people to then thinkabout what their opinion is,
rather than trying to straddlethe middle ground with bland
sound bites.
And and if someone said to theTories at some point, just use
three words, because peoplecan't remember four, so stop the
(07:17):
boats is a classic example.
It's so patronizing and so lowend as to be totally meaningless
and nobody appreciates it orbelieves in it anyway.
So I think sometimes there'salso that thing where if you're
not able to express itcoherently and with a degree of
eloquence and actually come backto the point of telling stories
(07:40):
which I'm sure we'll talk aboutmore then really it's very hard
to get excited about becauseit's just so trite and quick.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
Well, I think this leads interestingly into my next
do, which is a realize.
Do realize that your talk won'tjust be your talk there, and
then to the live audience.
It may end up on social media,it might be edited, it might be
cut.
I did a thing last week with apanel, and little elements of
what they've said are now beingturned into short videos which
(08:12):
will be shared, and so half youraudience wasn't there Well, not
half.
Whatever audience you get, it'sout of context.
So you've got to speak clearlyso that if anything's edited or
taken away, it still has powerbeyond the live session that you
gave and I think that alsolinks back to the fact that
memory is reducing.
(08:34):
People don't remember as much,so when you say stop the boats,
oh, I can walk out.
I can remember those threewords.
The other thing is thatattention spans are shorter, so
it may well suit somebody tofilm your half hour turning into
a single minute, and it's goingto be the highlights.
So what was the best story,what was the best message and
(08:55):
what's the action you want youraudience to take?
Because it's going to be boileddown.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
It is boiled down.
I've got a great example ofthis.
It is boiled down.
I've got a great example ofthis.
So about 15 years ago thiswould be we had a governor of
the Bank of England, mervyn King, and he gave speeches all the
time about the state of theeconomy and all that sort of
thing, and one day he gave areally interesting speech about
where the economy was and heused the term at the moment, our
(09:23):
economy is zigzagging a little.
Now, if you read that speech, itwas nothing about that, it was
all about other factors.
But because that was an easysoundbite that was seized upon
and was everywhere and nothingelse was quoted from that speech
at all.
So I, in a state of quite, Iwas quite agitated.
(09:44):
I dictated a letter and we sentit to him and I just said look,
you've got a responsibility tobe careful about what you say,
knowing that only certain bitswill be used.
And to be fair to that guy, heresponded to me he must have
dictated it as well, because itwas a full letter signed by him
(10:04):
and he accepted that he did needto be more careful about what
he said because it would be, youknow, misconstrued.
Yeah, those things that we'vejust talked about the way that
soundbites are taken.
If you go all the way back,that is propaganda.
Yeah, if you, if you know whatbits are going to be taken, what
bits are memorable, if you knowwhat bits are going to be taken
, what bits are memorable, ifyou know what to say in the
(10:25):
right way, you can thencompletely get the coverage that
you need and get a message outthere which could be very
divisive, but that's why theykeep trying to do it.
So when we think aboutpropaganda, you think of
Goebbels and the Nazis and allthat sort of thing.
I'm sorry it has not changedthat much.
(10:46):
Of course the messages havechanged, but the way they do it
is almost exactly the same and Ihope that we are now wiser to
that.
As we go into an age of AI andfake news and all that sort of
thing, as we go into an election, are we able to go?
I don't think that's what thatguy really meant.
That's not what was said.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
You know well if it's a video, the one thing that's
going for you.
If you've got the right energy,tone, gesticulation, body
language, expression, you canmake people feel things without
necessarily them remembering allof your words.
But again, as soon as it'sprinted and zigzagging is
written in a headline, you go.
Why did he say that?
You don't the context?
(11:25):
So I think the number onepriority for a public speaker is
to impact the people in theroom who they're most trying to
affect, because that's all youcan affect.
So, wherever you're speaking,do your best, but if there's a
camera on you, it's going to becut up, edited, taken out, even
in a business sense it.
May this awful word change thenarrative.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
Thanks for listening to our podcast when we're not
recording these.
We deliver sales training andmanagement programs for our
company, reality Trainingprograms for our company,
reality Training.
For 20 years we've worked withmajor brands to help them sell
more, retain customers andmanage their people more
effectively.
Contact us via our website,realitytrainingcom.
(12:15):
So I remember years ago we werealways taught keep it simple,
stupid.
Okay.
Do you remember people sayingthat?
Speaker 2 (12:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
And that inferred that the audience was stupid and
they would only understandanything you were saying if you
kept it really simple.
And I think that what'shappened is that we now have
taken that to a degree whereit's just so patronizing that it
has no effect at all.
And I remember we, for years,we used to say that, you know,
(12:52):
people like to take ininformation at a level which is
lower than their level ofintelligence.
Now, that may well be true.
You know a nice simple diagramor a simple description.
I said, right, I get that, nowI can understand that simple
diagram or a simple description.
I say, right, I get that, now Ican understand that.
But actually, if you then lowerit to a level where you're
speaking down to me as though Iam absolutely thick, as two
(13:14):
short planks, then I am going tobecome antagonized by that,
because I'm not that stupid, andI also may suspect that what
you're trying to do is pull thewool over my eyes in some way
because you're not treating mewith a relevant level of
intelligence.
And so I think we now have tounderstand that we are living in
a world where it's all doneover camera, it's all done over
(13:35):
screens.
We do watch media.
We have 24 7 media all the timeand therefore, if you're in
business and you're makingpresentations and running
meetings and you are in front ofpeople, then there is a skill
to that which needs to bepracticed and rehearsed.
But also, as you've beentalking about, what is it I'm
(13:56):
trying to get across to thesepeople?
What is it that I need them totake away from this?
Is it a meaningless soundbitewhich they'll remember, or is it
actually two or three reallyimportant points that will make
a difference If I can get thatacross and convey it in a way
with enthusiasm and I thinkthat's another thing we'll come
on to Some people sound so boredwith their own speeches that if
(14:18):
I can get that across, thenI've got a chance of making an
impact.
If I can't, it just disappearsinto the ether, which is
possibly a reason why they'resticking them out every day to
say something.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
So let's just run through a couple of do's, sort
of top line do's, I think.
Do realize that nerves arethere, but also try and tell
yourself it's excitement.
It's quite a nice tip that isoften used with teenagers who
are being forced to speak atvarious things.
So nerves is a form ofexcitement.
Do use cards.
(14:51):
You're not going to remember itall.
And when people hold sheets ofa4 I mean boris johnson held
sheets of a4 unbelievableinstead of nice slick, neat card
you put one in the top righthand corner goes back behind the
pack.
Then you're on to number two.
Surely they could affordautocue or an autocue, but cards
in case the tech goes wrong.
The other thing that you haveto do is look at your audience
(15:13):
and, if you're getting faces andexpressions and things you want
to be able to do stuff in themoment, say, oh, that that
surprised you and then get themto speak.
You can uh, oh, interesting,interesting, oh, I get a murmur
Something that stand-upcomedians do very well.
They get a reaction they weren'texpecting.
They go.
Ooh, I think a bit too blue foryou, is it?
Or have I set the bar?
I think I've upset you.
(15:34):
What don't I know that makesyou a?
Speaker 1 (15:36):
great public speaker.
That is when you know you'redealing with someone who has
skill where they can deal withrandom interjections from an
audience, make it funny and moveon.
Now.
Not everyone can do that.
No, no, of course not.
There are some comedians whowill just deliver and go.
They won't necessarily engagewith people because they haven't
got that ability to just turn.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
I would say miles jupp.
There is no audienceinteraction.
It's just a polished piece, buthe's an actor.
He's an actor al murray publandlord, probably the most
gifted at dealing with anythingan audience gives him.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
I've recently watched jimmy carr do some.
Yeah, what he is not afraid ofis to absolutely take the mick
of out of that person you raisesomething like what they're
doing.
You know he has no problem, butpeople are ready for it, they
expect it, but no, that is rare.
Now I mean all the do's we'vebeen going through I've agreed
with You've got a few more.
I've got a few more.
What else have you got?
Two others, which is and Ican't stress this enough we're
(16:35):
talking about comedians.
Be funny how to be funny.
Once or twice in your speech,Rehearse it and rehearse that
bit.
If you're not a funny person,rehearse the bit that makes them
laugh.
Trust me, it's a massive,massive thing that will make a
difference to you.
If you are dull, that's allthey will remember.
So try and learn a couple ofgags.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
So what I'd say on that is, if you can't be
spontaneously funny and somepeople try to be you can find a
very well written, crafted jokepractice delivery and the joke
works because you didn't writeit.
So jokes are designed to have apunch line that no one's seen
coming.
It will get a response so youcan actually find jokes to stick
(17:16):
in.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
That's effective now, the last one I've got is key
stick to timings.
Yay, I've got that in well.
There is nothing worse than aspeaker going over which means
everybody else is running late.
That's the first thing.
That's rude to all the otherspeakers who are coming on, but
also your audience have timingstoo.
(17:37):
So I'm sitting in this businesssession, I'm at a conference.
There's an hour and a half ofthis and then I can get a coffee
and go to the loo.
If you start going over by 10,15 minutes, of course people are
going to get annoyed.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Well, my tip is actually finish earlier, so you
and I have often finished withfive minutes in hand and people
are delighted they get outslightly sooner.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
If you look at our episode about dissecting the
obsession with meetings, youknow most meetings could finish
early as well.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
But that's it.
We'll do another podcast onthat.
A couple of things props, ifyou've got something.
So if you take olympic speakerslike ben, he'll take his.
Ben hunt, davis, he'll take hisgold medal in with him.
Yeah, excellent prop, bit ofrealia handed out to the
audience.
So, for example, I rememberthere's been people who've done
talks in my wife's school andthey've brought in swords,
they've brought in artifacts,they've and and the you know
that is sits there and theydon't allude to it.
(18:33):
It's right at the front on atable and it's gripping and in a
minute I'm going to hand out.
Oh yeah.
So if you've got somethingworth sharing, do it.
The other thing on imagery perse is you're going to rely on a
technical feed, a decentprojector, all that stuff.
If you can avoid images,because otherwise it's again
another whole presentation, thendon't have it.
(18:55):
Every politician that's doing aspeech does not, unless they've
been booked to a specificaudience in a conference room or
at a party conference.
They don't use slides becauseyou don't have the time.
So I would rely so much more orless on image and I think those
are all my do's.
And rehearse, of course.
(19:15):
Rehearse, flipping, speak itaround your garden, your house
or whatever in the bath, justrehearse.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
So I've got five don'ts.
By the way, I would add to thedo's just in general, tell
stories, but we'll come on tothat in a minute.
My first don't is so simple andI'm afraid I'm guilty of this
Don't be pissed.
Okay, that's a reallystraightforward piece of advice.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
You've done one pissed with me.
It wasn't really a speech, itwas an awards ceremony, it was
awards.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
And that was only because I had no idea we were
doing it.
I was sitting at a table at agala dinner, yeah, and I was
with a big load of drinkingchaps I couldn't drink at all,
do you remember, because my cathad to get home to put my cat
down.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
It was so depressing.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
I didn't think we were doing anything else, so I I
had a few, and then this guycame up and said would you mind
coming up and giving out theawards?
And and there's a picture of mehanging onto the podium, isn't
there?
Speaker 2 (20:05):
Yeah Well, you didn't know you'd be doing it, which
is why you were drinking, Isuppose.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
Don't be drunk.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
Yeah, don't read the slides.
Yeah, well, yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
As we've said, try not to have them yeah.
But, yeah, what else have yougot?
Don't be boring, don't overrun,because that sticks timings,
and don't tell a story you'venever told.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Oh, yeah, because you , you've read it online or
something.
Yeah, so if you remember, inthe office, david bent talks
about some event he'd been atand as if everyone else was
there.
Do you remember?
So and so do that thing.
Yeah, no one knows, and soyou're looking at someone who
was there, but the rest of theaudience to have no idea what
you're.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Well, I've got a that's one of my don'ts.
Don't do any in jokes with fourpeople who are sitting at the
front about we were.
We were out one night andthat's private chat.
I've seen people do that atconferences where they talk to
the board about something theseven of them have done.
That's just just gutwrenchingly gross.
Yeah, my other thing is don'trush.
(21:06):
You know, if I used to say thatwhen a child first starts to
publicly speak which is kind oflike a school play, the only
thing that you want as a parentis pace that they slow down.
It doesn't change in adulthoodthe amount of people who rush
and speak quickly.
We just can't hear it.
So don't rush.
(21:27):
We've talked about not tellingjokes unless you've actually
crafted it.
That is about it.
Oh, and don't swear, becauseunless you can swear properly, a
few comedians can, but if youswear and it's out and it's not
backed.
I was at a eulogy and thisbloke said I've always wanted to
say f in a church and he saidit and everyone just went.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
Well, that wasn't very funny well, I saw john
cleese do the eulogy for grahamchapman's funeral and he did
swear and it was very, veryfunny well, there you go.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
He could probably deliver it, and he?
Speaker 1 (21:59):
said, and the reason I can say that is because he
wouldn't have forgiven me if Ihadn't right.
So that's very good.
I look at this, this wholething.
I look back to the speechesthat we've seen.
I remember once you and I werein a conference in venice and
there was a sponsored speechgiven by a man who didn't want
to do it, who had been told todo it.
It was an hour a highlyexpensive conference that would
(22:23):
have cost every single personwho attended several thousand
pounds to attend.
Yeah, and they had to sitthrough a sponsored, dull,
unexciting speech from a brandthat most people knew about.
Yeah, I just think that that istorture, actually, and I wish
that that people wouldn't dothat what about jenny draper?
Speaker 2 (22:42):
be brief, be bright, be gone.
I think.
Think that's not bad either Ifyou're going to speak for less
time, then be great within ashorter space of time rather
than average over a prolongedperiod of time.
Some people think that they'reso well known or they can busk.
A lot of people think they canbusk, but I promise they can't,
(23:03):
even if they are the CEO of X orwhatever they are.
Your personality and the factthat you hold this position is
not enough.
People are not delighted to seeyou if you just start wombling
on.
So it doesn't matter how wellknown you are.
You must prepare, because everyaudience is going to be
slightly different.
So should we do?
Three is the magic number?
(23:23):
Should we do three is the magicnumber?
Let's do three is the magicnumber.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
Okay, so we have three questions today.
The first question is what isthe worst public speaking you've
ever seen?
Speaker 2 (23:42):
The worst public speaking I've ever seen is an
employer of mine who wanted totell us about how we were going
to be floated and it was allabout making millions for the
board and how we'd become a PLCand we'd be available on the
stock market.
I had no idea why they thoughtthey needed to travel around the
(24:03):
offices telling us this and itwas the single most ineffective
bit of speaking that madeeverybody no longer, like their
employer, wondered what they'dgrafted for for years to achieve
to now be sold.
And there was no benefit reallyin the selling.
It was completely non-molded tous.
(24:27):
It was the most ineffective,demoralizing, and I guess they
thought they had to do some tourof telling us this, but it was
pointless.
That was the worst and we'reusing the same questions today.
So the worst public speakingyou have witnessed I think we've
had some of the worst publicspeaking.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
I've witnessed, yeah, in the last four years, and I
would say during the pandemic,when various politicians were
wheeled out to talk about things.
Some of that was just sodreadful.
So do you remember the guy usedto run the health service
during covid?
What?
was his name.
I mean, I can't remember theguy's name he was, so he's now
disappointed.
I'm a celebrity, matt hancock,matt hancock and, and I mean he,
(25:07):
occasionally they'd make him dothe evening speech and that was
just agony.
Liz truss has never delivered adecent speech ever.
She is unbelievably useless atpublic speaking and admits it
because she knows that.
How she got to be primeminister, I've no idea, and I
would say that Sunak is the mostreluctant speaker I've ever
(25:31):
seen.
There is a man who does notwant to speak at all.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
He's ready, salted, isn't he?
Speaker 1 (25:36):
Yeah, he doesn't want to, doesn't want to actually be
put on the spot, he's not greatin interviews either, he's not
natural, he's not relaxed, andbecause that is not his skill
set and I think, sadly, the daysof having people who are
accomplished communicators inleadership roles is sadly
diminishing and has done forquite some time.
But there we are.
(25:57):
Who do you think is the mostimproved public speaker of late?
Speaker 2 (26:01):
well, without being political, it's Keir Starmer.
He has got better.
Yeah, I mean, previously, nigelFarage knocked every other
politician out the park.
Yeah, he was the best publicspeaker, and if only you had
different politics, perhaps somewould say.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
But he was just good, he had an easy message to sell
as well.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
He could tell stories , he could take a question,
respond.
He had it in spades, keirStarmer didn't.
He was quite nervy, quitejittery, and now he listens, he
reflects, he gives it back andhe grows in his energy.
So I'd say he's the mostimproved.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
I agree with that so if you go back over the last
well, you can go back 100 oddyears.
Really.
What do you think has been themost effective public speaking?
What to to make me act orchange personally maybe you or
anything historically, if wethink about famous public
speakers, what have they done?
(26:59):
That has that has beeneffective and and you can use
all speakers here gosh.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
Well, there's a few that stand out.
I mean, there's some that thatmake you change your opinion on
things.
So I remember as a child havingan amazing talk from a
naturalist at school and thatmade me realize if we didn't do
something, animals were going todie.
So that was very interestingabout endangered species and
first woke me up to theenvironment.
I liked some of the olderpoliticians of the past, like
(27:27):
Heseltine.
I thought they're veryimpactful.
But I suppose you could arguethat some speeches make people
go to war, make people you knowprepared to defend their country
against things.
You and I in one of our courseswe used to show a Churchill
speech that was highly clever ingetting an entire nation to
(27:49):
come to our aid.
I would say there's just a fewhighlights, really.
I would say there's just a fewhighlights, really.
But I suppose the reason why welike this topic is we know it
can change the minds of people,because people can be rallied,
they can be energized, inspiredwith a great speech and even if
you're at a dinner and someonestands up, it can make the night
, can't it?
It can make everybody feelconnected.
(28:11):
It's a very important thing,rather than I've got to get this
out the way.
I see it as a responsibility ifyou're the person who's doing
it to actually make the entiretable room, congregation group,
business group connect and feelcollaborating, feel like they
should be bothered to connect.
It's a unifying thing.
(28:32):
It's a really powerful thing, Iagree.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
I think, if it's good , it is transformational.
People like Churchill had theability to make speeches that
would be reported and quoted,and I think that's an
interesting thing.
How many of us can quote anyspeeches from the last 20 years?
You know, there's not many.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
We can quote Churchill a lot, so that's the
first thing we can quoteChurchill a lot.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
So that's the first thing.
I think the danger now is thatwe have certain politicians who
can literally say anything.
So if you look at Trump, youknow, if you look at some of the
rallies and some of thespeeches he's given, there's
plenty of very, very poorspeeches that that man has
(29:13):
delivered to these big stadiumsfull of people.
And yet when you speak to hispeople coming out afterwards
they say, oh, it's amazing, it'sincredible.
So he's realized that just hisbeing there and talking nothing
of any great substance sometimesis enough.
So that kind of force ofpersonality which I think was a
trait of certain other dictatorsgoing back through history, you
(29:35):
know that is another thingwhich is is a powerful thing
that we don't realise that thatforce of personality sometimes
can be enough.
I think that possibly BorisJohnson thought that he had a
force of personality to getthrough, but unfortunately he
was required to have somesubstance which I think was
probably slightly lacking.
(29:55):
But then I think, if you thinkabout some of the people around
our current prime minister, Iwas thinking I saw an interview
the other day that David Cameron, who is now currently our
foreign secretary.
Now, again, whether you agreewith the politics or not.
He comes across assured,relaxed, prime ministerial,
presidential, almost becausehe's off around the world, you
(30:16):
know, representing britain onthe world stage, and he's done
that in the past, he knows howto do it.
He has a huge level ofconfidence which, I'm afraid,
does set his leader in aslightly difficult light,
because there's that prep, thatpresentation, that public
speaking confidence that theleader doesn't have.
(30:39):
And I think that that's aninteresting one where if you
have someone in a position ofany sorts of power, whether it
be in business or politics, thenthat leadership, that charisma,
that ability to connect withpeople is really important.
And I think if you're not goodat it, then that rehearsal
element that we've just beentalking about, the way that you
(31:02):
come across, the messages thatyou choose and the way that you
deliver, becomes more and moreand more important.
And I fear that if people don'tget this message then it will
turn more people off gettinginvolved in public debate
because it's just so difficult.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
And just on that from my final thing on the personal
note, if people think, oh, I'vejust got to get through this,
it's a task that I wish I didn'thave to do.
You forget, at major occasions Iwent to my mother-in-law's 80th
and my daughter, aged 18, spoke.
That's major.
No one will forget that.
It's a chance People willreminisce.
So it is your moment in thespotlight.
(31:41):
On a personal note, don't justbusk through it.
No, actually take theopportunity to do a good job and
if you are in the frequency ofdoing things, take 15 minutes to
prepare.
Don't just go.
Oh, this, this force ofpersonality, that expression
you're using.
Speaker 1 (31:59):
Don't just think, oh, I can just turn up because you
can't.
I'll remind people of a stat weused on a previous podcast if
you rehearse a presentation once, it will be 10 times better
than had you not rehearsed it atall.
So imagine if you rehearsed ittwice.
How much better it would be.
Imagine if you did it threetimes and then went on.
It would be amazing.
But we don't, because we'realmost terrified of rehearsing
(32:23):
it, because that's how much wefear it.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
Yeah Right, Public speaking.
It may fall to you.
It may already be part of yourday Be better.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
See you in the next one bob and jeremy's conflab the
reality podcast.
so I'm concentrating on delivering for the British
people, stopping the boats andthe others just haven't got a
plan.
Thank you, how do you thinkthat went?
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Yeah, yeah, good.
Do I really have to do thisevery day?
Yes, you do.
Yeah, you do Every day.
Okay, it's your job.
Wish I didn't.
Yeah, maybe a bit more planning, a bit more action, a bit more
energy, more energy.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
We'll talk about it later, okay.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Bob and Jeremy's Conflap the Reality Podcast.
Welcome to Bob and Jeremy'sConflab Public speaking.
What you just heard was a verypoor impression of our current
Prime Minister and the sort ofstuff that he says quite a lot
(01:05):
these days, and we thought we'dreturn to this topic because
public speaking is somethingwe're going to be seeing more
and more of in the next 12months as we approach a general
election, and we think there'ssome really important pointers
that we need to remind people of, and if people are not used to
(01:26):
public speaking, then there'stips they need to know or
they're just going to beappalling.
So we are reviving our veryfamous do's and don'ts format.
Our most popular one so far hasbeen conferences, do's and
don'ts, and now we're going todo public speaking do's and
don'ts, and I'd like to welcomemy friend and colleague to this,
jeremy Blake.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Hello, the other thing, listeners, I think to
recognize is, although we'relargely talking about how you
can impress in your speaking tosome form of public public you
may know they might be youremployees, of course but there's
also likely to be a time inyour life when you speak even
more publicly to some peoplethat you don't know so well, or
(02:07):
you know some of them, but notall of them.
This, of course, could be at awedding, it could be at a eulogy
, it could be at an awardsceremony.
We tend to have more free time.
You'll find that certain peoplewill ask you to present things
or get into committees or actiongroups or that sort of stuff,
(02:30):
so you may be jostled intopublic speaking, but largely
we'd love just speakers to bebetter.
So we've got different tips andideas and we will also be
hammering home some of theabsolute vitals, so do's and
don'ts of public speaking.
And I think just before we kickoff there was a survey taken in
the United States.
Do you remember this, bob?
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Ah, yes.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
The number one fear in the United States was not
dying.
It wasn't that, oh, that Icould die or have a heart attack
.
It was that I'd be asked togive a talk somewhere.
So the second thing that scaresthe north americans the most is
death, but the things are morescary, is what?
I'd have to speak somewhere.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
Yes, that's more scary maybe they should start
using it as reverse psychologyand if someone's very ill, you
just say, well, you may be ill,but we need you to make a speech
first, and that might actuallydivert them from the fact that
they're dying.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
It's not a bad idea, or it just cuts the waiting
lists down and they all haveheart attacks.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Well, it can be terrifying, and one of the
reasons that it's terrifying, ofcourse, is that people don't
prepare for them.
I mean, it sounds so obvious,but that's something you and I
have been training for years andit never seems to enter
people's consciousness.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
We've both done some research into this, and I've
come at it from a slightlydifferent angle, because I
recently have been delving intothe world of podcasts.
As a podcast presenter, Ithought it was only right that I
look at what else is going onout there, and so I've recently
been listening to a number ofvery good podcasts, and some of
them, of course, are all aboutpolitics, and the reason we we
(04:04):
kicked off with an example ofthe kind of stuff that Rishi
does is that I've heard on atleast three podcasts recently
that he just isn't verycomfortable standing at a podium
making speeches, which for apolitician, is an extraordinary
thing.
But he's not, of course, thefirst.
In fact, we only need to goback one prime minister to find
(04:25):
another person who was anappalling public speaker, and of
course that's Liz Truss.
So what we've had is two primeministers who are reluctant
speakers, who aren't very goodat public speaking, and I heard
recently on a podcast it was theRest is Politics that there's a
feeling going around thatpeople at number 10 are making
(04:47):
Rishi make almost daily speechesand statements just to get him
out in front of people, but forhim it's the most uncomfortable
thing that he has to do, becausehe's much more of a get on with
it inside person than a standthere and speak, and that's why
he often says the same thingsagain and again, because his
(05:07):
turn of phrase and his quicknessto respond isn't that great.
He needs to think about thesethings before he does it, you
know absolutely.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
I think we need to kick off with the number one do
which we talk about, which ispreparing.
But preparing breaks down intoa few areas and the number one
thing about public speaking thatis different to say presenting
to everybody, you know, isyou've got to do some kind of
analysis of your audience.
I'm going to have 50% of peoplethinking like this.
(05:37):
There could be 30% like that,20% like that.
You know it's breaking downyour audience and knowing where
the appeal goes and also whatthey want to hear.
So if you're a politician andyou have a room full of farmers,
then what do farmers need tohear?
If you're a politician, youhave a room full of industrial
people, you should be attuningit.
(05:57):
And this is one thing that Idon't see happening enough is
people have some core messages,but they're not analyzing their
audience enough.
So what do they believe?
What do they fear?
How do they feel?
What are their emotions?
What's their number one thing?
They want this kind of stuff.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Well, there's also a slightly different perspective
now, especially in politics, butI think it happens in business
too, where you look at youraudience and you think, if I can
bring 40 to 50% of these peoplewith me but also antagonize
another 40% odd of these peoplebecause some people don't give a
(06:33):
damn either way, that'sactually that means it plays
well for you.
And in fact if you watch anypolitical drama that's a term
that is used all the time oh, orthat played really well for us,
did it?
Yeah, it's a higher percentagegot that than the other side.
Or if loads of people didn'tlike what you said, sometimes
they'll do that to create anargument, to create a debate.
(06:55):
Now, I don't really mind that,actually, because I think least
then you are, you're makingstronger statements, which is is
getting people to then thinkabout what their opinion is,
rather than trying to straddlethe middle ground with bland
sound bites.
And and if someone said to theTories at some point, just use
three words, because peoplecan't remember four, so stop the
(07:17):
boats is a classic example.
It's so patronizing and so lowend as to be totally meaningless
and nobody appreciates it orbelieves in it anyway.
So I think sometimes there'salso that thing where if you're
not able to express itcoherently and with a degree of
eloquence and actually come backto the point of telling stories
(07:40):
which I'm sure we'll talk aboutmore then really it's very hard
to get excited about becauseit's just so trite and quick.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
Well, I think this leads interestingly into my next
do, which is a realize.
Do realize that your talk won'tjust be your talk there, and
then to the live audience.
It may end up on social media,it might be edited, it might be
cut.
I did a thing last week with apanel, and little elements of
what they've said are now beingturned into short videos which
(08:12):
will be shared, and so half youraudience wasn't there Well, not
half.
Whatever audience you get, it'sout of context.
So you've got to speak clearlyso that if anything's edited or
taken away, it still has powerbeyond the live session that you
gave and I think that alsolinks back to the fact that
memory is reducing.
(08:34):
People don't remember as much,so when you say stop the boats,
oh, I can walk out.
I can remember those threewords.
The other thing is thatattention spans are shorter, so
it may well suit somebody tofilm your half hour turning into
a single minute, and it's goingto be the highlights.
So what was the best story,what was the best message and
(08:55):
what's the action you want youraudience to take?
Because it's going to be boileddown.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
It is boiled down.
I've got a great example ofthis.
It is boiled down.
I've got a great example ofthis.
So about 15 years ago thiswould be we had a governor of
the Bank of England, mervyn King, and he gave speeches all the
time about the state of theeconomy and all that sort of
thing, and one day he gave areally interesting speech about
where the economy was and heused the term at the moment, our
(09:23):
economy is zigzagging a little.
Now, if you read that speech, itwas nothing about that, it was
all about other factors.
But because that was an easysoundbite that was seized upon
and was everywhere and nothingelse was quoted from that speech
at all.
So I, in a state of quite, Iwas quite agitated.
(09:44):
I dictated a letter and we sentit to him and I just said look,
you've got a responsibility tobe careful about what you say,
knowing that only certain bitswill be used.
And to be fair to that guy, heresponded to me he must have
dictated it as well, because itwas a full letter signed by him
(10:04):
and he accepted that he did needto be more careful about what
he said because it would be, youknow, misconstrued.
Yeah, those things that we'vejust talked about the way that
soundbites are taken.
If you go all the way back,that is propaganda.
Yeah, if you, if you know whatbits are going to be taken, what
bits are memorable, if you knowwhat bits are going to be taken
, what bits are memorable, ifyou know what to say in the
(10:25):
right way, you can thencompletely get the coverage that
you need and get a message outthere which could be very
divisive, but that's why theykeep trying to do it.
So when we think aboutpropaganda, you think of
Goebbels and the Nazis and allthat sort of thing.
I'm sorry it has not changedthat much.
(10:46):
Of course the messages havechanged, but the way they do it
is almost exactly the same and Ihope that we are now wiser to
that.
As we go into an age of AI andfake news and all that sort of
thing, as we go into an election, are we able to go?
I don't think that's what thatguy really meant.
That's not what was said.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
You know well if it's a video, the one thing that's
going for you.
If you've got the right energy,tone, gesticulation, body
language, expression, you canmake people feel things without
necessarily them remembering allof your words.
But again, as soon as it'sprinted and zigzagging is
written in a headline, you go.
Why did he say that?
You don't the context?
(11:25):
So I think the number onepriority for a public speaker is
to impact the people in theroom who they're most trying to
affect, because that's all youcan affect.
So, wherever you're speaking,do your best, but if there's a
camera on you, it's going to becut up, edited, taken out, even
in a business sense it.
May this awful word change thenarrative.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
Thanks for listening to our podcast when we're not
recording these.
We deliver sales training andmanagement programs for our
company, reality Trainingprograms for our company,
reality Training.
For 20 years we've worked withmajor brands to help them sell
more, retain customers andmanage their people more
effectively.
Contact us via our website,realitytrainingcom.
(12:15):
So I remember years ago we werealways taught keep it simple,
stupid.
Okay.
Do you remember people sayingthat?
Speaker 2 (12:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
And that inferred that the audience was stupid and
they would only understandanything you were saying if you
kept it really simple.
And I think that what'shappened is that we now have
taken that to a degree whereit's just so patronizing that it
has no effect at all.
And I remember we, for years,we used to say that, you know,
(12:52):
people like to take ininformation at a level which is
lower than their level ofintelligence.
Now, that may well be true.
You know a nice simple diagramor a simple description.
I said, right, I get that, nowI can understand that simple
diagram or a simple description.
I say, right, I get that, now Ican understand that.
But actually, if you then lowerit to a level where you're
speaking down to me as though Iam absolutely thick, as two
(13:14):
short planks, then I am going tobecome antagonized by that,
because I'm not that stupid, andI also may suspect that what
you're trying to do is pull thewool over my eyes in some way
because you're not treating mewith a relevant level of
intelligence.
And so I think we now have tounderstand that we are living in
a world where it's all doneover camera, it's all done over
(13:35):
screens.
We do watch media.
We have 24 7 media all the timeand therefore, if you're in
business and you're makingpresentations and running
meetings and you are in front ofpeople, then there is a skill
to that which needs to bepracticed and rehearsed.
But also, as you've beentalking about, what is it I'm
(13:56):
trying to get across to thesepeople?
What is it that I need them totake away from this?
Is it a meaningless soundbitewhich they'll remember, or is it
actually two or three reallyimportant points that will make
a difference If I can get thatacross and convey it in a way
with enthusiasm and I thinkthat's another thing we'll come
on to Some people sound so boredwith their own speeches that if
(14:18):
I can get that across, thenI've got a chance of making an
impact.
If I can't, it just disappearsinto the ether, which is
possibly a reason why they'resticking them out every day to
say something.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
So let's just run through a couple of do's, sort
of top line do's, I think.
Do realize that nerves arethere, but also try and tell
yourself it's excitement.
It's quite a nice tip that isoften used with teenagers who
are being forced to speak atvarious things.
So nerves is a form ofexcitement.
Do use cards.
(14:51):
You're not going to remember itall.
And when people hold sheets ofa4 I mean boris johnson held
sheets of a4 unbelievableinstead of nice slick, neat card
you put one in the top righthand corner goes back behind the
pack.
Then you're on to number two.
Surely they could affordautocue or an autocue, but cards
in case the tech goes wrong.
The other thing that you haveto do is look at your audience
(15:13):
and, if you're getting faces andexpressions and things you want
to be able to do stuff in themoment, say, oh, that that
surprised you and then get themto speak.
You can uh, oh, interesting,interesting, oh, I get a murmur
Something that stand-upcomedians do very well.
They get a reaction they weren'texpecting.
They go.
Ooh, I think a bit too blue foryou, is it?
Or have I set the bar?
I think I've upset you.
(15:34):
What don't I know that makesyou a?
Speaker 1 (15:36):
great public speaker.
That is when you know you'redealing with someone who has
skill where they can deal withrandom interjections from an
audience, make it funny and moveon.
Now.
Not everyone can do that.
No, no, of course not.
There are some comedians whowill just deliver and go.
They won't necessarily engagewith people because they haven't
got that ability to just turn.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
I would say miles jupp.
There is no audienceinteraction.
It's just a polished piece, buthe's an actor.
He's an actor al murray publandlord, probably the most
gifted at dealing with anythingan audience gives him.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
I've recently watched jimmy carr do some.
Yeah, what he is not afraid ofis to absolutely take the mick
of out of that person you raisesomething like what they're
doing.
You know he has no problem, butpeople are ready for it, they
expect it, but no, that is rare.
Now I mean all the do's we'vebeen going through I've agreed
with You've got a few more.
I've got a few more.
What else have you got?
Two others, which is and Ican't stress this enough we're
(16:35):
talking about comedians.
Be funny how to be funny.
Once or twice in your speech,Rehearse it and rehearse that
bit.
If you're not a funny person,rehearse the bit that makes them
laugh.
Trust me, it's a massive,massive thing that will make a
difference to you.
If you are dull, that's allthey will remember.
So try and learn a couple ofgags.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
So what I'd say on that is, if you can't be
spontaneously funny and somepeople try to be you can find a
very well written, crafted jokepractice delivery and the joke
works because you didn't writeit.
So jokes are designed to have apunch line that no one's seen
coming.
It will get a response so youcan actually find jokes to stick
(17:16):
in.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
That's effective now, the last one I've got is key
stick to timings.
Yay, I've got that in well.
There is nothing worse than aspeaker going over which means
everybody else is running late.
That's the first thing.
That's rude to all the otherspeakers who are coming on, but
also your audience have timingstoo.
(17:37):
So I'm sitting in this businesssession, I'm at a conference.
There's an hour and a half ofthis and then I can get a coffee
and go to the loo.
If you start going over by 10,15 minutes, of course people are
going to get annoyed.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Well, my tip is actually finish earlier, so you
and I have often finished withfive minutes in hand and people
are delighted they get outslightly sooner.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
If you look at our episode about dissecting the
obsession with meetings, youknow most meetings could finish
early as well.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
But that's it.
We'll do another podcast onthat.
A couple of things props, ifyou've got something.
So if you take olympic speakerslike ben, he'll take his.
Ben hunt, davis, he'll take hisgold medal in with him.
Yeah, excellent prop, bit ofrealia handed out to the
audience.
So, for example, I rememberthere's been people who've done
talks in my wife's school andthey've brought in swords,
they've brought in artifacts,they've and and the you know
that is sits there and theydon't allude to it.
(18:33):
It's right at the front on atable and it's gripping and in a
minute I'm going to hand out.
Oh yeah.
So if you've got somethingworth sharing, do it.
The other thing on imagery perse is you're going to rely on a
technical feed, a decentprojector, all that stuff.
If you can avoid images,because otherwise it's again
another whole presentation, thendon't have it.
(18:55):
Every politician that's doing aspeech does not, unless they've
been booked to a specificaudience in a conference room or
at a party conference.
They don't use slides becauseyou don't have the time.
So I would rely so much more orless on image and I think those
are all my do's.
And rehearse, of course.
(19:15):
Rehearse, flipping, speak itaround your garden, your house
or whatever in the bath, justrehearse.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
So I've got five don'ts.
By the way, I would add to thedo's just in general, tell
stories, but we'll come on tothat in a minute.
My first don't is so simple andI'm afraid I'm guilty of this
Don't be pissed.
Okay, that's a reallystraightforward piece of advice.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
You've done one pissed with me.
It wasn't really a speech, itwas an awards ceremony, it was
awards.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
And that was only because I had no idea we were
doing it.
I was sitting at a table at agala dinner, yeah, and I was
with a big load of drinkingchaps I couldn't drink at all,
do you remember, because my cathad to get home to put my cat
down.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
It was so depressing.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
I didn't think we were doing anything else, so I I
had a few, and then this guycame up and said would you mind
coming up and giving out theawards?
And and there's a picture of mehanging onto the podium, isn't
there?
Speaker 2 (20:05):
Yeah Well, you didn't know you'd be doing it, which
is why you were drinking, Isuppose.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
Don't be drunk.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
Yeah, don't read the slides.
Yeah, well, yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
As we've said, try not to have them yeah.
But, yeah, what else have yougot?
Don't be boring, don't overrun,because that sticks timings,
and don't tell a story you'venever told.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Oh, yeah, because you , you've read it online or
something.
Yeah, so if you remember, inthe office, david bent talks
about some event he'd been atand as if everyone else was
there.
Do you remember?
So and so do that thing.
Yeah, no one knows, and soyou're looking at someone who
was there, but the rest of theaudience to have no idea what
you're.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Well, I've got a that's one of my don'ts.
Don't do any in jokes with fourpeople who are sitting at the
front about we were.
We were out one night andthat's private chat.
I've seen people do that atconferences where they talk to
the board about something theseven of them have done.
That's just just gutwrenchingly gross.
Yeah, my other thing is don'trush.
(21:06):
You know, if I used to say thatwhen a child first starts to
publicly speak which is kind oflike a school play, the only
thing that you want as a parentis pace that they slow down.
It doesn't change in adulthoodthe amount of people who rush
and speak quickly.
We just can't hear it.
So don't rush.
(21:27):
We've talked about not tellingjokes unless you've actually
crafted it.
That is about it.
Oh, and don't swear, becauseunless you can swear properly, a
few comedians can, but if youswear and it's out and it's not
backed.
I was at a eulogy and thisbloke said I've always wanted to
say f in a church and he saidit and everyone just went.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
Well, that wasn't very funny well, I saw john
cleese do the eulogy for grahamchapman's funeral and he did
swear and it was very, veryfunny well, there you go.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
He could probably deliver it, and he?
Speaker 1 (21:59):
said, and the reason I can say that is because he
wouldn't have forgiven me if Ihadn't right.
So that's very good.
I look at this, this wholething.
I look back to the speechesthat we've seen.
I remember once you and I werein a conference in venice and
there was a sponsored speechgiven by a man who didn't want
to do it, who had been told todo it.
It was an hour a highlyexpensive conference that would
(22:23):
have cost every single personwho attended several thousand
pounds to attend.
Yeah, and they had to sitthrough a sponsored, dull,
unexciting speech from a brandthat most people knew about.
Yeah, I just think that that istorture, actually, and I wish
that that people wouldn't dothat what about jenny draper?
Speaker 2 (22:42):
be brief, be bright, be gone.
I think.
Think that's not bad either Ifyou're going to speak for less
time, then be great within ashorter space of time rather
than average over a prolongedperiod of time.
Some people think that they'reso well known or they can busk.
A lot of people think they canbusk, but I promise they can't,
(23:03):
even if they are the CEO of X orwhatever they are.
Your personality and the factthat you hold this position is
not enough.
People are not delighted to seeyou if you just start wombling
on.
So it doesn't matter how wellknown you are.
You must prepare, because everyaudience is going to be
slightly different.
So should we do?
Three is the magic number?
(23:23):
Should we do three is the magicnumber?
Let's do three is the magicnumber.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
Okay, so we have three questions today.
The first question is what isthe worst public speaking you've
ever seen?
Speaker 2 (23:42):
The worst public speaking I've ever seen is an
employer of mine who wanted totell us about how we were going
to be floated and it was allabout making millions for the
board and how we'd become a PLCand we'd be available on the
stock market.
I had no idea why they thoughtthey needed to travel around the
(24:03):
offices telling us this and itwas the single most ineffective
bit of speaking that madeeverybody no longer, like their
employer, wondered what they'dgrafted for for years to achieve
to now be sold.
And there was no benefit reallyin the selling.
It was completely non-molded tous.
(24:27):
It was the most ineffective,demoralizing, and I guess they
thought they had to do some tourof telling us this, but it was
pointless.
That was the worst and we'reusing the same questions today.
So the worst public speakingyou have witnessed I think we've
had some of the worst publicspeaking.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
I've witnessed, yeah, in the last four years, and I
would say during the pandemic,when various politicians were
wheeled out to talk about things.
Some of that was just sodreadful.
So do you remember the guy usedto run the health service
during covid?
What?
was his name.
I mean, I can't remember theguy's name he was, so he's now
disappointed.
I'm a celebrity, matt hancock,matt hancock and, and I mean he,
(25:07):
occasionally they'd make him dothe evening speech and that was
just agony.
Liz truss has never delivered adecent speech ever.
She is unbelievably useless atpublic speaking and admits it
because she knows that.
How she got to be primeminister, I've no idea, and I
would say that Sunak is the mostreluctant speaker I've ever
(25:31):
seen.
There is a man who does notwant to speak at all.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
He's ready, salted, isn't he?
Speaker 1 (25:36):
Yeah, he doesn't want to, doesn't want to actually be
put on the spot, he's not greatin interviews either, he's not
natural, he's not relaxed, andbecause that is not his skill
set and I think, sadly, the daysof having people who are
accomplished communicators inleadership roles is sadly
diminishing and has done forquite some time.
But there we are.
(25:57):
Who do you think is the mostimproved public speaker of late?
Speaker 2 (26:01):
well, without being political, it's Keir Starmer.
He has got better.
Yeah, I mean, previously, nigelFarage knocked every other
politician out the park.
Yeah, he was the best publicspeaker, and if only you had
different politics, perhaps somewould say.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
But he was just good, he had an easy message to sell
as well.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
He could tell stories , he could take a question,
respond.
He had it in spades, keirStarmer didn't.
He was quite nervy, quitejittery, and now he listens, he
reflects, he gives it back andhe grows in his energy.
So I'd say he's the mostimproved.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
I agree with that so if you go back over the last
well, you can go back 100 oddyears.
Really.
What do you think has been themost effective public speaking?
What to to make me act orchange personally maybe you or
anything historically, if wethink about famous public
speakers, what have they done?
(26:59):
That has that has beeneffective and and you can use
all speakers here gosh.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
Well, there's a few that stand out.
I mean, there's some that thatmake you change your opinion on
things.
So I remember as a child havingan amazing talk from a
naturalist at school and thatmade me realize if we didn't do
something, animals were going todie.
So that was very interestingabout endangered species and
first woke me up to theenvironment.
I liked some of the olderpoliticians of the past, like
(27:27):
Heseltine.
I thought they're veryimpactful.
But I suppose you could arguethat some speeches make people
go to war, make people you knowprepared to defend their country
against things.
You and I in one of our courseswe used to show a Churchill
speech that was highly clever ingetting an entire nation to
(27:49):
come to our aid.
I would say there's just a fewhighlights, really.
I would say there's just a fewhighlights, really.
But I suppose the reason why welike this topic is we know it
can change the minds of people,because people can be rallied,
they can be energized, inspiredwith a great speech and even if
you're at a dinner and someonestands up, it can make the night
, can't it?
It can make everybody feelconnected.
(28:11):
It's a very important thing,rather than I've got to get this
out the way.
I see it as a responsibility ifyou're the person who's doing
it to actually make the entiretable room, congregation group,
business group connect and feelcollaborating, feel like they
should be bothered to connect.
It's a unifying thing.
(28:32):
It's a really powerful thing, Iagree.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
I think, if it's good , it is transformational.
People like Churchill had theability to make speeches that
would be reported and quoted,and I think that's an
interesting thing.
How many of us can quote anyspeeches from the last 20 years?
You know, there's not many.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
We can quote Churchill a lot, so that's the
first thing we can quoteChurchill a lot.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
So that's the first thing.
I think the danger now is thatwe have certain politicians who
can literally say anything.
So if you look at Trump, youknow, if you look at some of the
rallies and some of thespeeches he's given, there's
plenty of very, very poorspeeches that that man has
(29:13):
delivered to these big stadiumsfull of people.
And yet when you speak to hispeople coming out afterwards
they say, oh, it's amazing, it'sincredible.
So he's realized that just hisbeing there and talking nothing
of any great substance sometimesis enough.
So that kind of force ofpersonality which I think was a
trait of certain other dictatorsgoing back through history, you
(29:35):
know that is another thingwhich is is a powerful thing
that we don't realise that thatforce of personality sometimes
can be enough.
I think that possibly BorisJohnson thought that he had a
force of personality to getthrough, but unfortunately he
was required to have somesubstance which I think was
probably slightly lacking.
(29:55):
But then I think, if you thinkabout some of the people around
our current prime minister, Iwas thinking I saw an interview
the other day that David Cameron, who is now currently our
foreign secretary.
Now, again, whether you agreewith the politics or not.
He comes across assured,relaxed, prime ministerial,
presidential, almost becausehe's off around the world, you
(30:16):
know, representing britain onthe world stage, and he's done
that in the past, he knows howto do it.
He has a huge level ofconfidence which, I'm afraid,
does set his leader in aslightly difficult light,
because there's that prep, thatpresentation, that public
speaking confidence that theleader doesn't have.
(30:39):
And I think that that's aninteresting one where if you
have someone in a position ofany sorts of power, whether it
be in business or politics, thenthat leadership, that charisma,
that ability to connect withpeople is really important.
And I think if you're not goodat it, then that rehearsal
element that we've just beentalking about, the way that you
(31:02):
come across, the messages thatyou choose and the way that you
deliver, becomes more and moreand more important.
And I fear that if people don'tget this message then it will
turn more people off gettinginvolved in public debate
because it's just so difficult.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
And just on that from my final thing on the personal
note, if people think, oh, I'vejust got to get through this,
it's a task that I wish I didn'thave to do.
You forget, at major occasions Iwent to my mother-in-law's 80th
and my daughter, aged 18, spoke.
That's major.
No one will forget that.
It's a chance People willreminisce.
So it is your moment in thespotlight.
(31:41):
On a personal note, don't justbusk through it.
No, actually take theopportunity to do a good job and
if you are in the frequency ofdoing things, take 15 minutes to
prepare.
Don't just go.
Oh, this, this force ofpersonality, that expression
you're using.
Speaker 1 (31:59):
Don't just think, oh, I can just turn up because you
can't.
I'll remind people of a stat weused on a previous podcast if
you rehearse a presentation once, it will be 10 times better
than had you not rehearsed it atall.
So imagine if you rehearsed ittwice.
How much better it would be.
Imagine if you did it threetimes and then went on.
It would be amazing.
But we don't, because we'realmost terrified of rehearsing
(32:23):
it, because that's how much wefear it.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
Yeah Right, Public speaking.
It may fall to you.
It may already be part of yourday Be better.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
See you in the next one bob and jeremy's conflab the
reality podcast.
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