October 1, 2024 • 51 mins
In this episode, hosts Chris Cashen, a CDM member and pastor of Trinity Reformed Church in Lanham, MD, and Tim Hopper, a CDM member and deacon at Shiloh OPC in Raleigh, NC, welcome guests John Fikkert, Director of the OPC Committee on Ministerial Care, and David Nakhla, Administrator of the OPC Committee on Diaconal Ministries. Together, they explore the origins and missions of these committees, the work being done in diaconal ministries, and how local deacons can use the connected church to access support in areas of the diaconate including caring for your pastor. John talks about the Obadiah Fund, a special fund for retired ministers, their wives and minister’s widows. This fund was initiated to provide special care and concern to those in the OPC who have sacrificed so much for the ministry of the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. The fund was previously overseen by the OPC Committee on Diaconal Ministries but is now managed by the OPC Committee on Ministerial Care. You’ll hear about the CDM’s resources, online and in person by way of presbytery-level and local diaconal summits. This episode is full of good information and even a few case studies to help with knowing who to contact in relation to caring for your pastor. This episode is a helpful resource for sure!
Referenced in this episode:
OPCCDM.org
OPCCMC.org
Presbytery and National Summits
OPC Committee on Ministerial Care Pastoral Compensation Tool
You can find all of our episodes at thereformeddeacon.org. Make sure to follow us on your favorite podcast player, so you don't miss an episode. Follow us on Facebook and Instagram for giveaways and more information. Find other resources on OPCCDM.org. Make sure to send us some feedback on your podcast player or ask a diaconal question by going to OPCCDM.org.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
David Nakhla (00:00):
The Preparatory Diaconal Committee serves as a
connection point between theDenominational Committee on
Ministerial Care Committee onDiaconal Ministries and the
local deacons.
Welcome to the Reformed Deacona casual conversation with
topics specifically designed tohelp local Reformed deacons.
There are nearly a thousanddeacons in the OPC alone, so
(00:23):
let's take this opportunity tolearn from and encourage one
another.
We're so glad you could join us.
Let's jump into our nextepisode.
Chris Cashen (00:32):
Welcome to another episode of the Reformed Deacon
Podcast.
My name is Chris Cashin.
I'm hosting this episode withTim Hopper.
Tim serves as a deacon at theonly Shiloh Presbyterian Church
in the Orthodox PresbyterianChurch that's in Raleigh, North
Carolina, and is a member of theOPC's Committee on Diaconal
Ministries.
I also serve with Tim on thatcommittee.
(00:53):
And I am pastor of Trinity.
Reformed OPC in Lanham,Maryland.
Tim Hopper (00:58):
We're joined today by John Fickert and David Nakhla
.
John is the director of theOPC's Committee on Ministerial
Care and David is theadministrator of the OPC's
Committee on Diaconal Ministries.
I'd like to just brieflyintroduce these guests and share
who they are so you have betterunderstanding and context.
John serves, as I said, as thedirector of the Committee on
(01:19):
Ministerial Care.
He's an ordained minister inthe OPC and he served for many
years on the pastoral staff atBethel OPC in Wheaton, illinois.
More recently, he's worked as afull-time counselor until in
2020, the Committee onMinisterial Care called him to
serve as their director.
He lives in Pella, Iowa withhis wife, lindsay, and their two
teenage children.
Welcome to the podcast, John.
Thank Y ou
Chris Cashen (01:40):
And David Nakhla really doesn't need an
introduction, but I think weshould give him one anyway.
David grew up in the OPC inSouthern California, where he
was ordained both as a deacon in1997 and then as a ruling elder
in 2002.
In 1995, he was married toFaith and they have five
(02:01):
children, three girls and twoboys, ranging in age from 12 to
24.
After working 15 years as anelectrical engineer, the Lord
called David in 2010 tofull-time service in the church.
The OPC's Committee on DiaconalMinistries appointed him to
serve as its first full-timeadministrator, as well as his
(02:23):
first short-term missions anddisaster response coordinator.
David is also a member of theDiaconal Committee of the
International Conference ofReformed Churches which is
actually a separate podcastwhich we need to do and serves
as an elder at his local churchin Calvary, opc at Glenside.
David also enjoys working onhis home and certainly being
(02:46):
with his family.
Welcome, david.
David Nakhla (02:48):
Thanks, great to be here on this side of the mic.
Chris Cashen (02:51):
Well, thank you both for joining us today.
Today, john David, tim and Iwill be discussing in really
broad-brush fashion two standingcommittees of the OPC's General
Assembly the Committee onDiaconal Ministries and then the
Committee on Ministerial Care.
Tim, you've been serving as adeacon in the OPC for many years
(03:11):
.
As we begin, just let me ask areally broad question Do you
think the work of thesecommittees has any intersection
with the ministry of a localdeacon?
Tim Hopper (03:21):
I think the answer is certainly yes, and
particularly the answer is thatit's being more and more true as
time goes on.
Not that these committees are,you know, we're not trying to
change diaconal ministry and theOPC to be top down and
controlled by these committees,but instead these committees are
being servants to our localdiaconates and I think our local
(03:41):
diaconates are experiencingthat more.
You know, I think in over thelast 15 years we can
particularly point to the impactof the national diaconal
summits that have been happeningand have been a huge blessing
to so many deacons anddiaconates.
I think the work of thispodcast.
We've been thankful andencouraged to see the way the
local diaconates are using itand now we're hearing more and
(04:04):
more churches are using it aspart of their training for
deacons to have them go andlisten to the podcast.
I think probably the Committeeon Ministerial Care is still a
little bit more of a mystery toour deacons as to how it impacts
them.
I think it does, but maybe alittle less directly, and part
of our hope today is to try toshare about that committee and
help our local diaconatesunderstand it and how it impacts
(04:26):
them.
We want to start maybe withjust a little bit of a
background on these twocommittees and help folks
understand where they come fromand how these men have gotten
involved with them.
So, David, maybe could you giveus a brief history of the
Committee on Diaconal Ministry.
David Nakhla (04:41):
Yeah, sure, I trust that.
Of course many of our listenershave some familiarity with the
Committee on Diaconal Ministriesthrough this podcast and other
means, but these are actuallyrecent developments in the work
of the CDM.
The fact is that the OPC isblessed to have a deep history
of a denominational committee ondiaconal ministries.
(05:02):
It's been fun to study thehistory a little bit and it
actually goes back to 1947, whenthe OPC was only 11 years old
that the General Assemblyestablished what at that time it
called the Committee on GeneralBenevolence, and its mandate
was to be concerned for thosediaconal needs that were beyond
(05:25):
the purview, beyond the reach ofthe local deacons.
And so the CDM, in many ofthose early years, served the
OPC in assisting pastors who hadlittle retirement.
As you know, in the OPC many ofour original pastors walked
away from pensions to be a partof this fledgling body, and so
(05:46):
the CDM was able to help pastorswith little retirement.
It came alongside school-agechildren living in dangerous
inner-city environments withscholarships for Christian
schools.
That was predominantly in thecity of Philadelphia.
It has a long history ofhelping refugees from various
(06:07):
parts of the world.
Over the years, differentseasons, different times.
It has provided significantfunding for our clinic on our
foreign mission fields.
And then it has.
We have a long history ofresponding to disasters around
the world with generous givingand a lot of that really
reflects a lot of the years ofthe Committee on Diaconal
(06:29):
Ministries.
But about 15 years ago the CDMincreased its size from seven
officers to nine officers, addeda couple more deacons and it
sought ways to aid and encouragelocal deacons became a new
focus for the committee and thatwas, as you mentioned, tim, the
National Summit, the NationalConference for Deacons.
(06:51):
We've done four of those.
Now, of course, creation ofthis podcast is for local
deacons, and then thecommittee's done a lot of work
on thinking about other trainingmaterial for deacons.
The CDM has significantlyincreased its organization in
the area of disaster response,more and more every disaster
since Hurricane Katrina, whichwas in 2005,.
(07:13):
We're coming up on the 20thanniversary of Hurricane Katrina
and then I would also say thatthe CDM has really grown in its
relationship with the OPC'sForeign Missions Committee,
seeking to come alongside itmore and more as our foreign
fields seek to minister both inword and deed.
In those ways the CDM's helpedto fund missionary deacons and
(07:34):
missionary doctors and hasprovided ample diaconal funds
for use by our missionaries intheir labors.
And then, finally, I'd say thatthe CDM, appreciating the
important and particular needsof ministers, played a role in
the creation of the OPC's newestdenominational committee, the
CMC, which is wonderful foreverybody to hear more about the
(07:57):
CMC, but it was CDM hadresponsibility for the Diaconal
Needs of Ministers For a lot ofyears.
That was a role of the CDM andwe've been thankful to transfer
that responsibility to this newcommittee in its work.
Tim Hopper (08:12):
Excellent, and can you just share briefly your
route to involvement with theCDM?
Kind of an interesting story.
David Nakhla (08:18):
Yeah, so my involvement with the CDM.
I came to my first GeneralAssembly in 2007.
I was very interested inserving the church in some sort
of full-time capacity and I hadactually had no idea it would be
stateside.
I aspired to be a missionarydeacon is what my wife and I and
our family was hoping to do.
(08:39):
Came to my first GeneralAssembly in 2007.
There was a spot for a rulingelder.
My name was put forward and myname was the only name put
forward and thus I ended upelected to the Committee on
Diaconal Ministry.
I grew up as a son of a deacon,served as a deacon, have always
loved the diaconate and wasexcited actually in reading that
(09:01):
GA report that year about thenew things that were happening
on the Committee on DiaconalMinistries and was very, very
thankful for the opportunity tobe a part of that In those next
coming years.
The committee, and particularlyDavid Haney who was on the
committee at the time, knew ofmy interest to shift into
full-time for the church and healso knew that the committee for
(09:27):
it to take back theresponsibility of disaster
response from home missions thathad kind of home missions that
had kind of taken the lead onthat at Hurricane Katrina, he
knew that for the Committee onDiagnostic Ministries to take
back that responsibility, itwould really need somebody
full-time, who was at the readyto lead in the area of disaster
response.
Even as we're recording this,there's a hurricane coming up
(09:49):
through the South.
So that was in his mind.
Was that really for the ball?
To move forward in the area ofDiaconal Ministries and with the
Committee on DiaconalMinistries, it would really need
to be staffed.
I'll oftentimes quote him insaying that he says committees
don't do things people do, andif you really want to move
things forward, you really doneed staff.
And so, yes, he was able topresent the concept of a
(10:13):
short-term missions coordinatorto foreign missions and home
missions committees and theyagreed that that's something
that they would fund, that theycould use, and so, with
part-time working for theCommittee on Diagnostics,
part-time for foreign missions,part-time for home missions,
there was enough there to createa full-time position, and I was
presented with that opportunityand thankful to say yes to that
(10:36):
and considered a privilege toserve the OPC, and so I began
that work in 2010, really tookon the full work of the
administrator for the committeein 2014.
And yeah.
I guess here we are 10 yearslater from that, so it's been a
privilege.
Chris Cashen (10:54):
That's great.
Thank you, david John.
Understanding that theCommittee on Ministerial Care is
fairly new, even as describedby David, can you tell us why it
was established, and certainlyestablished as a standing
committee of the GeneralAssembly?
John Fikkert (11:11):
Yeah, I'd be happy to, and perhaps the place to
start with the story goes backto the 1960s, I believe, is when
the OPC formed a committee onpensions and the committee on
pensions was focused onproviding retirement plans for
ministers of the OPC, and overtime, there was just a growing
(11:35):
recognition that more would needto be done to care for
ministers and just making surethey have a retirement plan at
the end, and that really came toa head in the 2010s where there
was just a full evaluation ofwhat is the care that we want to
be providing to ministers.
So that came to fruition in2017, when the Committee on
(12:00):
Ministerial Care was formed bythe General Assembly, and I
believe David Nakhla was anoriginal member, a charter
member of the Committee onMinisterial Care when it was
formed and then at some pointlater transitioned out.
But if it's okay, I'd go on todescribe just a bit of what the
Committee on Ministerial Care,how we view what the GA has
(12:21):
asked us to do, what the GA hasasked us to do, and if you go to
our website, opccmcorg, you'llsee there that we've divided our
work into four categoriesfinancial health compensation
and then asa third category,soul care and then, fourthly,
(12:42):
rest, and just to walk throughthose four briefly, financial
health has everything to do withwhat we originally were
assigned to do, which is theretirement planning for
ministers, but it also includesmore broadly financial planning
for ministers, everything frombudgeting to working through a
loan repayment or otherfinancial needs that they need
(13:02):
help with, a loan repayment orother financial needs that they
need help with.
And then also insurance advice,information and, newest to CMC
we also have health insurance,life insurance, disability
insurance I envision insurancethat we can offer to ministers
as well.
The second category,compensation as well.
(13:27):
The second category,compensation.
We work with presbyterians insessions and talk about
compensation for ministers withthem, as we are consulted, but
we also have an onlinecompensation tool that we
believe can provide a target oran idea of what a minister might
need to be compensated, andwhat we view as the advantage of
that tool is within 10 minutesyou can get at least a ballpark
idea of what a minister shouldbe paid.
(13:51):
Fourth, soul care.
That really starts to get atthe heart of why CMC was formed
where attend to more of theemotional and other needs of
ministers, and so we try toprovide different counseling and
other resources, connectingpeople with mentors or whatever
they might need, so they are noton an island as a minister or a
(14:13):
minister's wife.
And then, fourthly, we'vereally been trying to focus on
rest, providing appropriateperiods of rest for ministers
through sabbaticals, retreatsand the like.
So those are really the fourcategories, but perhaps of
interest to listeners of theReformed Deacon.
Part of that, component of whatCMC has been asked to do is to
(14:36):
provide a level of care,diaconal care, to ministers and
their families, and so I'm surewe'll talk about that more in a
bit.
Chris Cashen (14:47):
Great.
Thank you, John.
Could you just give us a briefoverview of your involvement
with the committee as director?
John Fikkert (14:54):
Yes, so I am the one full-time employee of the
Committee on Ministerial Care,so that means perhaps much like
how David serves CDM.
I handle a lot of thecorrespondence and am connecting
whoever's inquiring, whetherit's a minister, an elder, a
deacon or a church member,trying to connect them with the
(15:15):
right resource or answer aquestion they might have, and so
that also means planning outnew projects or overseeing
initiatives that we've begun.
So essentially, I am thefull-time employee of the CMC.
Chris Cashen (15:34):
Very good, thank you.
Tim Hopper (15:36):
David, could you share with us how the CDM is
organized similarly and how itbreaks down into different
components?
David Nakhla (15:43):
Sure, very good, thank you help.
And Trish Dugan, who is kind ofrunning even this podcast right
now, is a significant componentto enabling the work to go
(16:04):
forward.
Just very competent and helpful.
She's our communicationscoordinator, so she makes sure
that all our publications arehappening and helpful.
And then we also have the helpof Alison Groot, who also works
part time for us and helps somuch of the administrative tasks
and keeps us running well.
(16:25):
So we work together, the threeof us, and that's been really,
really great to have a team inthat way and a team that's for
those who want to contact us.
We're more available that way.
The CDM I remember when I firstcame on the CDM there were no
subcommittees and so everybodydid everything and those
committee meetings were soexhausting because it was a deep
(16:46):
dive into one topic and then wecome up for air and take a
total deep dive into anothertopic and total different topic
and I think we quickly realizedthat just too much and we were
hard for us to serve well, andso it was not too long into that
that we realized the need tothe committee, realized the need
to create subcommittees andfive different areas, and the
(17:09):
first is the aid requestsubcommittee.
They receive requests that cometo the committee, whether it's
requests bubbling up through thepresbyteries or requests coming
from sister churches around theworld or requests coming from
(17:32):
our sister committees of the OPC, foreign Missions Committee and
maybe even CMC and others.
So that's the aid requestsubcommittee.
The diaconal trainingsubcommittee is focused on, as
it says, the training of deacons.
So that committee is working onthe summits, working on
(17:52):
training material, making surethat we're providing articles
for publication and New Horizons, ordained Servant, those type
of things and just open tothinking of new ways to come
alongside our deacons locally,which is where the main area for
diaconal work is local.
And then disaster response againa total different area but
(18:14):
important area of the work ofthe Committee on Diaconal
Ministries.
We have a subcommittee who'sjust focused on that.
When a disaster happens, whatdoes that look like?
How do we get organized?
What is our relationship withthe local church that's impacted
?
What roles do we need to havepeople fill to serve in those
capacities?
How do we raise funds for adisaster response, those type of
(18:36):
things and get the word out,raising up volunteers?
That's the disaster responsesubcommittee.
We have a missionary deaconsubcommittee.
This is just focused on comingalongside missionary deacons,
visiting them, encouraging them,recruiting them, whatever we
can to assist them in their work.
That's one of our subcommitteesand our final one is the
(18:58):
refugee ministry SubcommitteeAgain another whole different
realm of work, but this isprobably one of our committees
that has had a lot of work to doin recent years.
When the Ukraine crisishappened, we realized that was
significantly a refugee eventand so the Ukraine Crisis Fund
was put under the RefugeeMinistry Subcommittee and that's
(19:20):
been a lot of work.
But also domestically, theMinistry to Refugees in
Clarkston, georgia, under thePresbyterian Southeast big
interest that subcommittee hasin it.
So that's the subcommittees,and we don't know what the
future holds as other areas ofDiakon Ministry rise to the
point of our involvement.
We'll probably have anothersubcommittee that's focused on
(19:42):
that.
Very good, thank you.
Chris Cashen (19:44):
So now we want to drill down a little bit.
We've got a broad overview ofboth committees.
John, I think one of the thingsthat the Committee on
Ministerial Care now takes careof or is overseeing is the
Obadiah Fund.
Can you just give us anexplanation of what that is and
then maybe touch upon how, if atall, it relates to the CDM?
John Fikkert (20:07):
Yes.
So to start, the Obadiah Fundbegan in the mid-2000s really
with a concerned couple that wasseeing retired ministers and
their wives retiring with notvery much money and they were
concerned that it would bedifficult for many OP ministers
to make ends meet.
So in a conversation with thevarious people in the OPC, the
(20:33):
Obadiah Fund was set up andadministered by CDM originally
Committee on Diaconal Ministriesset up and administered by CDM
originally Committee on DiaconalMinistries.
And that Obadiah Fund continuesto this day.
It has now, I would say, manydonors and continues to play a
critical role in the care ofretired ministers and their
wives and widows.
And there's two primary waysthat that Obadiah Fund works at
(20:57):
this time.
One is that we send an annuallove gift, regardless of need,
just as a way to say hey, we'rethinking of you and this is just
an encouragement to you.
But with that gift we also sayif you have additional needs or
ways that you need help, pleaselet us know.
(21:18):
And so that hopefully helpscreate the conversations we need
to meet actual needs of retiredministers and their wives or
widows.
Another component to the ObadiahFund is how do we make sure
we're talking to all of theObadiah recipients that are in
the OPC and there are certainlyways that either myself or
(21:43):
members of CMC talk to thoseretired ministers and widows.
But part of our goal is for thepresbytery on whose many of
these ministerial membersthey're members of presbytery.
So we're hoping to createcloser ties between ministers
and their presbyteries and alsofor the presbyteries to be aware
(22:05):
of the needs of widows ofretired ministers as well.
So the way that we try to helpensure and create good
connections with thepresbyteries through the
Presbytery Diaconal Committee,good connections with the
presbyteries through thePresbytery Diaconal Committee,
and so before we send out ourannual love gift to everybody,
(22:25):
we send out a letter to thePresbytery Diaconal Committees
reminding them of the Obadiahrecipients in their presbytery
and asking them to contact themand check in with them at that
time.
And we've developed with all 17OPC presbyteries, we've
developed very goodrelationships with those
presbytery committees on caringfor our Obadiah recipients.
Chris Cashen (22:43):
John.
Thank you for talking about thepresbytery diaconal committees,
bringing them into theconversation, David.
What are they?
What are presbytery diaconalcommittees for the local deacon
to understand?
And then, how do they relate tothe CDM?
David Nakhla (22:57):
I like to say that the Committee on Diaconal
Ministries, despite diaconalbeing in the name, does not do a
lot of diaconal work.
Most of the diaconal work ofthe church is done by local
deacons.
Diaconal work is veryface-to-face, it's very personal
(23:19):
, and so the deacons are themain source of diaconal ministry
in our churches.
And even as John was talkingabout the ministry to the
retired ministers, you know theCMC and John are just a small
entity compared to the number ofretired ministers.
Actually, john, how manyretired ministers and widows are
there now?
(23:46):
In rough numbers, there's about130 retired ministers and about
35 widows of retired ministers.
Yeah, so that's a huge body ofthe church spread out across the
denomination, across the US,and predominantly the ministers
should be ministered to by theirpresbytery.
That's where their membershipis, that's where the presbytery
serves them, and so I don't knowthe history.
It's something I'm veryinterested in learning but I
(24:09):
don't know the history ofpresbytery diaconal committees
in the OPC.
But all of our 17 presbyterieshave a diaconal committee.
It's in the ethos of the OPC.
Again, I don't know how thatdeveloped because actually some
of our sister denominationsdon't have presbytery diaconal
committees.
(24:29):
But I'm very thankful to havethat because the presbytery
diaconal committee serves as aconnection point between the
Denominational Committee onMinisterial Care Committee on
Diagnostic Ministries, and thelocal deacons.
I like to say that we describeit as the network of deacons
deacons serving locally, deaconsserving regionally and deacons
(24:52):
serving denominationally.
And so sometimes there's anoccasion where you deacons, in
your local church, you have asignificant need and you say
this is a great need, somethingwe really should minister to,
but we're just tapped out.
I mean, we only have so muchresources here locally.
Well, the blessing of being aconnected church is that it
(25:15):
doesn't end with you.
We're not congregational, we'reactually part of a bigger body.
And so, local deacons, if youare not aware of this, you have
the ability, each of you in yourlocal church, have the ability
to reach out to the diaconalcommittee, the presbytery level
diaconal committee, and make anappeal to them for additional
(25:38):
resources.
And they're going to want tosee that you've done your work
and considering that request andconsidering that need and
you're actually responding to itand you're passing along to
them some of the gap betweenwhat the need is and what you
think the church should besupplying, but what you're able
to.
And that committee then canconsider that request and can
(26:02):
participate.
And sometimes there's occasionswhere that need actually exceeds
the capacity of the presbyteryand those needs can be bubbled
up to the Committee onDiagnostic Ministries.
And in that way you can seethat the whole church, whole
denomination, whole OPC, iscoming alongside one need in one
presbytery, in one church,maybe even one family, maybe
(26:23):
even one individual, the wholechurch ministering in that way.
And again, I just always thinkthat's just a beautiful
expression of the body of Christministering one to another.
Even as one part suffers, wesuffer together, and so that's
the Presbytery DiaconalCommittee.
They've got variousresponsibilities.
They're very concerned aboutthe ministers and the care of
(26:44):
ministers, and we'll let Johntalk about that a little bit.
But if you deacons, have a needin your local church not
involving the minister, but justa need in one of your families,
you should know that you have aresource that's beyond the
local church and that's thePresbytery Diaconal Committee.
If you need contact info forthat, you can find that contact
info on our website, opcdmorg.
(27:07):
You could talk to your pastor,who's a member of the Presbytery
.
He should have that contactinfo as well.
But avail yourself of thatsuper important and valuable
resource in the OPC.
Tim Hopper (27:18):
One thing I don't think we've mentioned is that
the Committee on DiaconalMinistries is made up of church
officers, four of whom must bedeacons, and the Committee on
Ministerial Care doesn't have tohave deacons but can have, I
believe, as many as three.
John, has the CMC ever had adeacon on it?
Chris Cashen (27:38):
yet.
John Fikkert (27:39):
We did.
We actually had a deacon whoserved really well but then had
to step away, so we'd love toadd a deacon again in the future
.
Tim Hopper (27:49):
Yeah, and the Presbyterian Diaconal Committees
, predominantly, are composed ofa variety of officers, some of
which, in most presbyteries Ithink, have to be deacons.
But I think it's something forour brothers to think about
serving.
I would love to see somedeacons on the CMC.
I just think it would improveour partnership and just a good
(28:10):
perspective to bring to thatcommittee partnership with the
Committee on Diaconal Ministries, I mean.
But you know, I think thesethings can sometimes be missed
by deacons because deaconsaren't at Presbytery and General
Assembly meetings where thesetypes of things are discussed.
So you know, I think if this issomething that would be
interesting to you, you do haveto be voted in typically and
(28:31):
that requires there would be anopening in various things.
But you know, share with yourpastor and share your interest
and an elder and talk to them,or speak to one of us and try to
find out more.
We'd be happy to share whatinvolvement looks like.
David Nakhla (28:46):
And who better to speak to that than Deacon Tim
Hopper, who serves faithfullylocally, regionally and
denominationally?
I think the only guy and theonly deacon in the history of
the OPC who has servedsimultaneously at all three
levels, and maybe ever whoserved at all three levels.
So I thought you set a greatexample, tim, in that.
Tim Hopper (29:07):
Talk to the guy who doesn't know how to say no, yeah
, we need more of those.
I'd be happy to talk to folksabout it.
It's something to think about,potentially years in advance.
It depends on when these seatsbecome available.
But you know, many times thenominations might come up at
Presbyterian General Assemblyand pastors might be scrambling
(29:28):
to think who to nominate.
But if you've spoken of sharedinterest just makes that an
easier decision or an easierthing to consider.
So certainly consider it.
David Nakhla (29:39):
So, tim, I think that one of the things that the
Committee on Diaconal Ministries, and even this particular
episode of the podcast, hopes todo is for to give deacons a
larger vision of the church andwhat that service in the church
can look like.
And our elders, our pastors andelders are very accustomed to,
(30:07):
you know, serving at presbyterylevel, on different committees
and maybe even denominational.
But deacons are predominantly,most of their work is local, as
it should be, and it's great andimportant for them to have a
local focus.
But you know, the OPC is theOrthodox Presbyterian Church.
We're not churches, we are onechurch and so, yeah, we need
deacons who are servingregionally.
(30:29):
We need deacons who are servingdenominationally and maybe it
doesn't mean serving on acommittee.
It could mean being engagedwhen a disaster happens and
coming alongside brothers andsisters in our church who are
suffering by sending a group, bybeing part of a group, maybe
being a coordinator.
You don't always have to be inthe region to be like our
(30:52):
volunteer coordinators areoftentimes somebody from outside
the region.
So there's lots of ways that wecan work together diaconally,
beyond the local church, andthat's one of the things we
really hope you, deacons locally, get a vision for.
Tim Hopper (31:06):
Amen, Absolutely.
We want to think about a fewkind of case study type things
just to understand practicallyhow these committees work with
our local deacons.
First one is a pastor of FirstOPC in Anytown USA is training
up several men who think theymay be called to the office of
deacon.
He has called you it could beDavid or John to ask for help.
(31:29):
What would you want, Pastor Tom, to tell these deacon
candidates about the resourcesthat the CMC or the CDM offer to
those deaconates?
Maybe John, you can go firstand then David.
John Fikkert (31:39):
Yes, I'm going to actually highlight some things
that I think were just said,that I think are really
important.
So if I'm that pastor traininga deacon, I would just highlight
the great benefit of being adeacon in the OPC is that you're
part of a connected church inwhich there are presbytery and
denominational resources for youand you are not on an island
(32:05):
trying to figure this out onyour own.
So what that practically mightlook like is, if I'm a pastor
training a deacon, I'm going togive him the contact information
for the Presbytery DiaconalCommittee.
I'm going to make sure theyknow how to talk to them.
Information for the PresbyteryDiaconal Committee I'm going to
make sure they know how to talkto them.
And then I'm also going tointroduce them to the websites
(32:27):
for CMC and CDM opccmcorg,opccdmorg and have them look at
them and refresh themselves andlearn what those resources are
and perhaps they would want totalk about.
There's a lot of reallyexcellent training resources for
deacons on CDM's website.
David Nakhla (32:43):
Yeah, thank you, john.
I mean that's.
I think that I too would pointthem to opccdmorg.
Trish has served as kind of themastermind behind the website
and has really built out ourresources section.
If you go to obccdmorg, youclick on there's a training tab,
but if you click on resourcesthere's a resources by topic,
(33:05):
and if you click on that you'regoing to find there's more
content there than I've evenread or had the opportunity to
read, organized by topic churchofficers, church safety,
diaconal wisdom, disasterresponse, elderly, financial
assistance, loneliness or etcetera, et cetera.
(33:25):
The stranger visitingWestminster Standards.
There's just so much stuffthere, and so that's super
helpful.
You click on the training tab.
You can find case studies.
You can find video and audiofor previous summits if that's
interesting to you to hear thosesummits that you were not able
to be part of.
(33:45):
Our first summit was.
The speaker at that firstsummit was Brian Fickert, when
Helping Hurts, the author ofwhen Helping Hurts, which has
become a must-read for anybodyin charitable work, and then the
second summit was his co-author.
So those are there.
There's just lots of material.
The training material is anarea that we specifically.
Training of deacons issomething that we are working on
(34:07):
.
It's a recurring question, butthere really is a lot of
material on the website.
That's where I'd be pointingTom at First OPC in any town USA
.
Chris Cashen (34:19):
Good advice.
So John Deacon Rick.
He's noted that his pastor islooking a bit worn out.
He's a solo pastor with onlyone ruling elder on the session.
He carries a heavy load ofpreaching and spiritual
oversight.
Rick has spoken to the elderand the elder has noticed it
(34:41):
also, but doesn't have any ideasto help the pastor, considering
this to be an opportunity toserve as pastor.
Rick picks up the phone butstruggles with knowing the right
number to enter.
Do you have any direction forDeacon Rick?
John Fikkert (35:00):
Yeah, he would be welcome to contact the Committee
on Ministerial Care to discussresources.
I also think it'd be importantto remind that deacon that his
(35:27):
minister, in addition to servingat the local church, is a
member of Presbytery and itmight be worth figuring out
someone to contact in thePresbytery a trusted friend of
that minister, or, if he's notsure who to contact in that
Presbytery, he can contact me.
But most Presbyteries will havea ministerial care committee or
(35:48):
a visitation committee orsomebody that's concerned for
the welfare of ministers, and soI would want that deacon to be
thinking about what are thepresbytery resources I might
have, as well as ways that CMCmight have a resource to
careaconally for that minister.
Chris Cashen (36:06):
Very good, thank you.
David Nakhla (36:08):
What number was that again, john, I didn't hear
it.
1-800-i-need-help.
John Fikkert (36:14):
If you go to our website there's contact
information for me and for ourpart-time administrators and my
email and phone number is there.
My number is 641-651-0346, anda deacon or minister or elder
would be welcome to call me atthat number and we can talk
(36:34):
through the situation.
I would also add to my previousanswer that there are
counseling resources that CMCtries to connect for ministers
and that would mean eithersomebody in the presbytery or
locally as a counselor.
If the pastor would beinterested in a counselor, if
they're really needing somebodyto talk to, we'll try to figure
(36:57):
out a resource for them to talkto.
Or if it's somebody in theirfamily that's struggling, we'll
connect them with that resource.
We try to help with referrals,but then we also not.
Every health insurance plan forministers pays for counseling,
so CMC also helps to pay for thecounseling if that becomes a
(37:17):
need as well.
Tim Hopper (37:19):
Great.
I've talked to John about anumber of different things over
the years and it's always beenhelpful, so he does really make
himself accessible to us.
Let's move on to anotherscenario.
We're back with Pastor Tom inAnytown.
He has four children and a wifewho has been chronically ill.
Investigation has been done andfound a serious mold problem in
his home which has causedhealth issues.
(37:39):
To remove the mold the familyis required to move out and have
significant months-longremediation work done in the
home.
Insurance will not cover therental, the work nor the
pastor's absence from the pulpitfor a time if he relocates out
of the area.
The local diaconal fund is notsufficient to help with this
need.
Who can help Deacon Rick, as heloves his pastor and wants to
care for him?
David, would you like to takethat one?
David Nakhla (38:02):
Yeah, this is, I think, a helpful distinction for
deacons to know, although we'rehappy to unwind it at our end.
But when you have a need that'sdiaconal in nature, that
pertains to your pastor, youwould go to the Committee on
Ministerial Care.
All ministerial related stuff,diaconal and or otherwise, go to
(38:26):
them and then anything else.
If this was the home ofsomebody, one of the church
members who would come to thecommittee on diaconal ministries
, that said and I guess I'm kindof skipping a step both of
those would be routed throughthe Presbyterian Diaconal
Committee.
And so, either way, localdeacon, you find needs that are
significant like this in yourpastor situation and or somebody
(38:48):
else in the congregation, andthis exceeds the capacity of
your local church, localdiaconal fund, you should feel
ready to go to the PresbyteryDiaconal Committee.
I already talked about that.
But that is a huge resourcethat is available to you.
That Presbyterian DiaconalCommittee may seek to respond to
(39:08):
it directly, but if it's againbeyond their capacity, then they
will know.
If it's a ministerial thing,they're going to go to the
committee community ministerialcare.
If it's not ministerial, thenthey'll come to my committee
Communion of Diaconal Ministries.
But yeah, you should nothesitate to involve your
Presbyterian Diaconal Committeeon matters such as this, and
(39:30):
this situation sounds prettysignificant and should not be
overlooked, as I hear thescenario associated with health
issues for the pastor and hisfamily.
Tim Hopper (39:40):
Yeah, it was actually based on a true story
and was able to be handled inour presbytery, and the churches
came together and were able tomeet this need together without
needing to raise it to theCommittee on Ministerial Care,
but certainly knowing that itwas an option for us as well.
And I think you know, with allof this, folks don't need to
necessarily feel like they needto memorize the procedure or
protocol for any of this.
(40:01):
You can just pick up the phoneor send an email to whoever you
need to Reach out to.
Tim John gave his number.
David Nakhla (40:10):
But you know no that's true.
Tim Hopper (40:11):
That's true though.
David Nakhla (40:13):
We will reroute things.
I mean, you know, if somebodyreaches out with something,
we're doing that all the time,but reaching out is key, as you
say, tim, and don't hesitate toreach out.
It's okay if you go the wrongdirection.
We'll get it in the rightdirection, but yeah raise the
flag for sure.
Tim Hopper (40:28):
Yeah, let's talk briefly about our summits that
we have.
We have two different events,one called the Presbytery
Diaconal Summit and the NationalDiaconal Summit, and I think
the Presbytery Diaconal Summitis sometimes a little bit of a
source of confusion, maybe fromthe name, but we're planning a
Presbytery Diaconal Summit for2025.
And that's really we, in thatthe CDM and the CMC are trying
(40:50):
to work together on that as weserve together.
But, david, can you tell uswhat is a Presbytery Diaconal
Summit and why should a memberof the Presbytery Diaconal
Committee attend?
Maybe?
David Nakhla (41:00):
I'll start a little bit with the history of
that.
I remember actually in my earlyyears associated with the
Committee on Diaconal Ministry,there were lots of discussions
within the Committee on DiaconalMinistries talking about the
Presbytery Diaconal Committeesand what they do, and they do
this and they do that, and wewere actually not so sure that
(41:20):
they did this and they did thatand we talked about them as a
homogenous unit.
But we weren't so sure thatthey did this and they did that
and we talked about them as ahomogenous unit but we weren't
so sure that they were all sosimilar.
And so we reached out to all ofthem, got a hold of their
bylaws and organization andcontact info and all that type
of stuff, and we actually foundthem to be all quite different.
There was really not anoccasion for them to even know
(41:41):
what the other diaconalcommittees were doing in the
other presbyteries and we,denominationally Committee on
Diaconal Ministries, actuallyhad an interest in them looking
more alike so that we could knowwhat to expect with them, and
so actually out of that effort,we created a document called the
Proposed PDC Mandate.
You can find that on ourwebsite and slowly by slowly,
(42:04):
the presbytery diaconalCommittees of our 17
Presbyteries began to adopt thatmandate as their mandate and
became more organized ascommittees, getting the right
guys on the committees, growingtheir committees to have
ministers, presbyters, but alsodeacons, and a lot of that was a
fruit of the PresbyteryDiaconal Summit.
So the Presbytery DiaconalSummit, so the Presbytery
(42:25):
Diaconal Summit is somethingwe're trying to do it now every
two years, where we actuallyinvite members of the Presbytery
Diaconal Committees not thelocal deacons but Presbytery
Diaconal Committees to cometogether and at those summits we
seek to encourage them in theirlabors but really help cast a
vision for what that work canlook like.
There's so much work that aPresbyterian Diaconal Committee
(42:48):
can do.
I serve on the PresbyterianDiaconal Committee for the
Presbyterian of Philadelphia,where I reside, and every
meeting, as we're workingthrough our mandate, we think of
a whole new area of work thatwe could be focused on, and so
we meet quarterly discussing,going through our mandate and
seeking to hit those differentareas of the mandate.
(43:08):
So but we also realize that theCDM is not the only one who has
an interest in the PresbyterianDiaconal Committees, but also
the CMC has a significantinterest in the Presbyterian
Diaconal Committees and theireffective work in the Presbytery
Diaconal Committees and theireffective work, and so we've
(43:28):
invited the CMC to partner withus in hosting the Presbytery
Diaconal Summits, and so theywere at the last couple.
They've been there and Johnplans to be in attendance and
presenting at our next one,which is in the fall of 2025, a
little more than a year from nowwe'll be holding that is in the
fall of 2025, a little morethan a year from now.
We'll be holding that and thePresbyterian Diaconal Summit.
(43:48):
We pretty much will coveralmost all the expenses of those
who attend.
So if you are serving on aPresbyterian Diaconal Committee,
we encourage you to reallyconsider this three-day event.
You fly in on Thursday.
We begin on Thursday night, allday Friday.
You fly in on Thursday.
We begin on Thursday night, allday Friday.
Send you home on Saturday.
(44:08):
We have it located in centralin Chicago area so that guys
from both coasts can get therein a day and get home in a day,
and we're going to cover yourflight, we're going to cover the
cost of expenses, but we reallywant you to be there and really
get a sense of what that workcan.
Be there and really get a senseof what that work can be the
(44:28):
better.
Our Presbytery DiaconalCommittees serve our ministers,
serve our local deacons, thenthat whole network of deacons
becomes so much more robust.
And to quote Lyndall Smith, thePresbytery Diaconal Committee
is the linchpin of our diaconalnetwork, and so we're very
interested in the work ofdiaconal committees at the
progeterial level.
John, anything to add to that?
John Fikkert (44:49):
Yeah, actually, hopefully this is a helpful
comment.
If you're a listener andperhaps a deacon listening,
you're like all right, thispresbytery diaconal committee,
it sounds really important.
We've talked a lot about it.
I have no clue who's on mypresbytery diaconal Committee.
The way to figure that out isactually through CDM's website.
If you go to opccdmorg, one ofthe top tabs on the menu bar
(45:11):
says PDC and that will take youright to information for your
presbytery, for who you mightwant to talk to at the
presbytery level, and it'll alsotell you who's likely going to
be at this Presbytery DiaconalSummit that David was just
talking about.
But that'll help, I believe,give some of the structure for
who's on the Presbytery DiaconalCommittees.
(45:33):
And then on CMC's website Iknow it shares who are the
members of CMC so you can learnmore about who's on the
Nominational Committee.
And I believe CDM has somethingsimilar on their website for
who all the members of CDM areand their subcommittees as well.
David Nakhla (45:50):
That's right.
Yep, again, if that's opccdmorg, if you click on the about, you
can definitely find who's onthe committee on diaconal
ministries.
Thanks for that, john.
Tim Hopper (45:59):
We also have on the website opccdmorg from the last
two Presbytery Diaconal Summits.
We've recorded most of thematerial of those.
So this is not some big secretthing that the CDM and
Presbytery Diaconal Committeesare doing, and a lot of those
resources would be interestingand potentially helpful for
local diaconates as well.
So you can go check that out.
David Nakhla (46:19):
If I can add to that, tim.
I mean, if this rings your bell, you know which we hope it does
if you, as a local deacon, say,wow, I'd love to serve at the
presbytery level on a diaconalcommittee, it's hard oftentimes
to find a deacon who's nottotally, entirely tapped out and
who's willing to make himselfavailable to serve beyond the
(46:39):
local church.
So if that's of interest to youand I encourage you to talk to
your pastor about that, or maybethe elder or elders who go to
Presbytery, and next timethere's an opening they can put
forth your name.
But we're always needingdeacons who are willing to serve
the Presbytery level.
(46:59):
So make yourself known,absolutely.
John Fikkert (47:03):
Can I throw an additional idea out there?
If there's a listener that's adeacon saying I might eventually
feel an interest or a callingto serve on a denominational
committee, probably the best wayto introduce yourself to what
that might look like would be toserve on a presbytery committee
first, and then that helpspeople get to know you as well.
So if you have any sense ofcalling or interest in serving
(47:25):
beyond your local church, apresbytery committee would be a
great way to start.
Tim Hopper (47:30):
Absolutely, david.
Let's talk quickly so we canwrap up here about the National
Diaconal Summit.
That's for all deacons and afew years off.
But tell us briefly about those.
David Nakhla (47:40):
Yeah.
So we began having NationalDiaconal Summits in 2010, 2010,
2012, 2017, 2022, and our nextone is in 2026.
That is a wonderful event.
You got to come.
If you're a local deacon, yougot to come.
(48:01):
It is again.
You'll fly on Thursday.
You get there on Thursday fordinner and it begins on Thursday
night and the day together allon Friday and then fly home on
Saturday.
These are once every four years.
Put a ton of work into puttingit together.
For those, if you haven't been,talk to somebody who has been,
(48:24):
you can actually again find allthe previous summit material on
our website.
But yeah, to me there's greattraining, but it's not about the
training.
Some guys say, hey, can we livestream it, can we?
You know, can I just stay home?
And no, it's not about it'sabout being together, it's about
(48:44):
building relationships.
It's a networking.
That's not about it's aboutbeing together.
It's about buildingrelationships.
It's a networking.
That's why we call it thesummit.
It's really about gatheringtogether with like-minded men
and brothers from across the US,across the denomination, and
even we even have some deaconscome from sister denominations
and join us in this as well,from sister denominations, and
join us in this as well.
So plans are underway for 2026,and you will need to cover your
(49:08):
travel costs Once you get there.
We'll cover the costs.
I'd like to say that I thinkthat you can talk to your elders
if you need to, but I thinkit's a legitimate and useful use
of diaconal funds to build upthe deacons in their work.
But whatever you need to do,get there and you won't be
disappointed.
You won't feel like it was awaste of your time.
It will be hopefully ahighlight in that year, in that
(49:31):
four-year period.
Chris Cashen (49:33):
Brothers, this has been wonderful, but Deacon Rick
is still on the line with you.
Before you go, I want you toplant one last seed into his
mind.
So you're finishing yourconversation, you have this
moment.
How would you fill in thisblank in this unfinished
(49:54):
statement, deacon Rick?
Please think of the Committeeon Ministerial Care when you got
a blank there, john.
You need to fill that in for us.
What do you want Deacon Rick toknow?
Just this one time?
John Fikkert (50:08):
When you're thinking about the care of
ministers and their familymembers, or if you're aware of
retired ministers or widows thatare either in your local church
or nearby.
Please think of the Committeeon Ministerial Care for Diaconal
Needs.
Chris Cashen (50:27):
Excellent, excellent, david.
Same question.
Deacon Rick is there, you gotthis one moment.
What do you want to plant inhis mind before he goes?
David Nakhla (50:35):
When you're thinking about how to get that
beautiful, the Reformed Deaconpodcast t-shirt that everybody
loves to wear and you don't haveone, you need to be thinking
about the Committee on DiaconalMinistries.
That's not the answer you'relooking for, chris.
Sorry about that.
No, no, no, actually, yeah,when there are needs beyond the
(50:58):
capacity of the local church, Ilike to say that you cannot come
to the conclusion that we can'tmeet this need until you've
plumbed the depths of thediaconal resources of the OPC.
And so if it's really alegitimate need that you need to
meet, but you don't have theresources, you need to move
forward with reaching out to thePreparatory Diaconal Committee
(51:18):
and that could eventually cometo the Committee on Diaconal
Ministries denominationally.
So there you go.
Chris Cashen (51:24):
Brothers, thank you so much.
This has been very informativefor me and certainly, I'm hoping
, for our local deacons.
Thank you for taking the timeto discuss your respective
committees with us today,deacons.
We hope that this episode hasbeen helpful and will certainly
be an encouragement to you andyour labors for the Lord.
The Preparatory Diaconal Committee serves as a
connection point between theDenominational Committee on
Ministerial Care Committee onDiaconal Ministries and the
local deacons.
Welcome to the Reformed Deacona casual conversation with
topics specifically designed tohelp local Reformed deacons.
There are nearly a thousanddeacons in the OPC alone, so
(00:23):
let's take this opportunity tolearn from and encourage one
another.
We're so glad you could join us.
Let's jump into our nextepisode.
Chris Cashen (00:32):
Welcome to another episode of the Reformed Deacon
Podcast.
My name is Chris Cashin.
I'm hosting this episode withTim Hopper.
Tim serves as a deacon at theonly Shiloh Presbyterian Church
in the Orthodox PresbyterianChurch that's in Raleigh, North
Carolina, and is a member of theOPC's Committee on Diaconal
Ministries.
I also serve with Tim on thatcommittee.
(00:53):
And I am pastor of Trinity.
Reformed OPC in Lanham,Maryland.
Tim Hopper (00:58):
We're joined today by John Fickert and David Nakhla
.
John is the director of theOPC's Committee on Ministerial
Care and David is theadministrator of the OPC's
Committee on Diaconal Ministries.
I'd like to just brieflyintroduce these guests and share
who they are so you have betterunderstanding and context.
John serves, as I said, as thedirector of the Committee on
(01:19):
Ministerial Care.
He's an ordained minister inthe OPC and he served for many
years on the pastoral staff atBethel OPC in Wheaton, illinois.
More recently, he's worked as afull-time counselor until in
2020, the Committee onMinisterial Care called him to
serve as their director.
He lives in Pella, Iowa withhis wife, lindsay, and their two
teenage children.
Welcome to the podcast, John.
Thank Y ou
Chris Cashen (01:40):
And David Nakhla really doesn't need an
introduction, but I think weshould give him one anyway.
David grew up in the OPC inSouthern California, where he
was ordained both as a deacon in1997 and then as a ruling elder
in 2002.
In 1995, he was married toFaith and they have five
(02:01):
children, three girls and twoboys, ranging in age from 12 to
24.
After working 15 years as anelectrical engineer, the Lord
called David in 2010 tofull-time service in the church.
The OPC's Committee on DiaconalMinistries appointed him to
serve as its first full-timeadministrator, as well as his
(02:23):
first short-term missions anddisaster response coordinator.
David is also a member of theDiaconal Committee of the
International Conference ofReformed Churches which is
actually a separate podcastwhich we need to do and serves
as an elder at his local churchin Calvary, opc at Glenside.
David also enjoys working onhis home and certainly being
(02:46):
with his family.
Welcome, david.
David Nakhla (02:48):
Thanks, great to be here on this side of the mic.
Chris Cashen (02:51):
Well, thank you both for joining us today.
Today, john David, tim and Iwill be discussing in really
broad-brush fashion two standingcommittees of the OPC's General
Assembly the Committee onDiaconal Ministries and then the
Committee on Ministerial Care.
Tim, you've been serving as adeacon in the OPC for many years
(03:11):
.
As we begin, just let me ask areally broad question Do you
think the work of thesecommittees has any intersection
with the ministry of a localdeacon?
Tim Hopper (03:21):
I think the answer is certainly yes, and
particularly the answer is thatit's being more and more true as
time goes on.
Not that these committees are,you know, we're not trying to
change diaconal ministry and theOPC to be top down and
controlled by these committees,but instead these committees are
being servants to our localdiaconates and I think our local
(03:41):
diaconates are experiencingthat more.
You know, I think in over thelast 15 years we can
particularly point to the impactof the national diaconal
summits that have been happeningand have been a huge blessing
to so many deacons anddiaconates.
I think the work of thispodcast.
We've been thankful andencouraged to see the way the
local diaconates are using itand now we're hearing more and
(04:04):
more churches are using it aspart of their training for
deacons to have them go andlisten to the podcast.
I think probably the Committeeon Ministerial Care is still a
little bit more of a mystery toour deacons as to how it impacts
them.
I think it does, but maybe alittle less directly, and part
of our hope today is to try toshare about that committee and
help our local diaconatesunderstand it and how it impacts
(04:26):
them.
We want to start maybe withjust a little bit of a
background on these twocommittees and help folks
understand where they come fromand how these men have gotten
involved with them.
So, David, maybe could you giveus a brief history of the
Committee on Diaconal Ministry.
David Nakhla (04:41):
Yeah, sure, I trust that.
Of course many of our listenershave some familiarity with the
Committee on Diaconal Ministriesthrough this podcast and other
means, but these are actuallyrecent developments in the work
of the CDM.
The fact is that the OPC isblessed to have a deep history
of a denominational committee ondiaconal ministries.
(05:02):
It's been fun to study thehistory a little bit and it
actually goes back to 1947, whenthe OPC was only 11 years old
that the General Assemblyestablished what at that time it
called the Committee on GeneralBenevolence, and its mandate
was to be concerned for thosediaconal needs that were beyond
(05:25):
the purview, beyond the reach ofthe local deacons.
And so the CDM, in many ofthose early years, served the
OPC in assisting pastors who hadlittle retirement.
As you know, in the OPC many ofour original pastors walked
away from pensions to be a partof this fledgling body, and so
(05:46):
the CDM was able to help pastorswith little retirement.
It came alongside school-agechildren living in dangerous
inner-city environments withscholarships for Christian
schools.
That was predominantly in thecity of Philadelphia.
It has a long history ofhelping refugees from various
(06:07):
parts of the world.
Over the years, differentseasons, different times.
It has provided significantfunding for our clinic on our
foreign mission fields.
And then it has.
We have a long history ofresponding to disasters around
the world with generous givingand a lot of that really
reflects a lot of the years ofthe Committee on Diaconal
(06:29):
Ministries.
But about 15 years ago the CDMincreased its size from seven
officers to nine officers, addeda couple more deacons and it
sought ways to aid and encouragelocal deacons became a new
focus for the committee and thatwas, as you mentioned, tim, the
National Summit, the NationalConference for Deacons.
(06:51):
We've done four of those.
Now, of course, creation ofthis podcast is for local
deacons, and then thecommittee's done a lot of work
on thinking about other trainingmaterial for deacons.
The CDM has significantlyincreased its organization in
the area of disaster response,more and more every disaster
since Hurricane Katrina, whichwas in 2005,.
(07:13):
We're coming up on the 20thanniversary of Hurricane Katrina
and then I would also say thatthe CDM has really grown in its
relationship with the OPC'sForeign Missions Committee,
seeking to come alongside itmore and more as our foreign
fields seek to minister both inword and deed.
In those ways the CDM's helpedto fund missionary deacons and
(07:34):
missionary doctors and hasprovided ample diaconal funds
for use by our missionaries intheir labors.
And then, finally, I'd say thatthe CDM, appreciating the
important and particular needsof ministers, played a role in
the creation of the OPC's newestdenominational committee, the
CMC, which is wonderful foreverybody to hear more about the
(07:57):
CMC, but it was CDM hadresponsibility for the Diaconal
Needs of Ministers For a lot ofyears.
That was a role of the CDM andwe've been thankful to transfer
that responsibility to this newcommittee in its work.
Tim Hopper (08:12):
Excellent, and can you just share briefly your
route to involvement with theCDM?
Kind of an interesting story.
David Nakhla (08:18):
Yeah, so my involvement with the CDM.
I came to my first GeneralAssembly in 2007.
I was very interested inserving the church in some sort
of full-time capacity and I hadactually had no idea it would be
stateside.
I aspired to be a missionarydeacon is what my wife and I and
our family was hoping to do.
(08:39):
Came to my first GeneralAssembly in 2007.
There was a spot for a rulingelder.
My name was put forward and myname was the only name put
forward and thus I ended upelected to the Committee on
Diaconal Ministry.
I grew up as a son of a deacon,served as a deacon, have always
loved the diaconate and wasexcited actually in reading that
(09:01):
GA report that year about thenew things that were happening
on the Committee on DiaconalMinistries and was very, very
thankful for the opportunity tobe a part of that In those next
coming years.
The committee, and particularlyDavid Haney who was on the
committee at the time, knew ofmy interest to shift into
full-time for the church and healso knew that the committee for
(09:27):
it to take back theresponsibility of disaster
response from home missions thathad kind of home missions that
had kind of taken the lead onthat at Hurricane Katrina, he
knew that for the Committee onDiagnostic Ministries to take
back that responsibility, itwould really need somebody
full-time, who was at the readyto lead in the area of disaster
response.
Even as we're recording this,there's a hurricane coming up
(09:49):
through the South.
So that was in his mind.
Was that really for the ball?
To move forward in the area ofDiaconal Ministries and with the
Committee on DiaconalMinistries, it would really need
to be staffed.
I'll oftentimes quote him insaying that he says committees
don't do things people do, andif you really want to move
things forward, you really doneed staff.
And so, yes, he was able topresent the concept of a
(10:13):
short-term missions coordinatorto foreign missions and home
missions committees and theyagreed that that's something
that they would fund, that theycould use, and so, with
part-time working for theCommittee on Diagnostics,
part-time for foreign missions,part-time for home missions,
there was enough there to createa full-time position, and I was
presented with that opportunityand thankful to say yes to that
(10:36):
and considered a privilege toserve the OPC, and so I began
that work in 2010, really tookon the full work of the
administrator for the committeein 2014.
And yeah.
I guess here we are 10 yearslater from that, so it's been a
privilege.
Chris Cashen (10:54):
That's great.
Thank you, david John.
Understanding that theCommittee on Ministerial Care is
fairly new, even as describedby David, can you tell us why it
was established, and certainlyestablished as a standing
committee of the GeneralAssembly?
John Fikkert (11:11):
Yeah, I'd be happy to, and perhaps the place to
start with the story goes backto the 1960s, I believe, is when
the OPC formed a committee onpensions and the committee on
pensions was focused onproviding retirement plans for
ministers of the OPC, and overtime, there was just a growing
(11:35):
recognition that more would needto be done to care for
ministers and just making surethey have a retirement plan at
the end, and that really came toa head in the 2010s where there
was just a full evaluation ofwhat is the care that we want to
be providing to ministers.
So that came to fruition in2017, when the Committee on
(12:00):
Ministerial Care was formed bythe General Assembly, and I
believe David Nakhla was anoriginal member, a charter
member of the Committee onMinisterial Care when it was
formed and then at some pointlater transitioned out.
But if it's okay, I'd go on todescribe just a bit of what the
Committee on Ministerial Care,how we view what the GA has
(12:21):
asked us to do, what the GA hasasked us to do, and if you go to
our website, opccmcorg, you'llsee there that we've divided our
work into four categoriesfinancial health compensation
and then asa third category,soul care and then, fourthly,
(12:42):
rest, and just to walk throughthose four briefly, financial
health has everything to do withwhat we originally were
assigned to do, which is theretirement planning for
ministers, but it also includesmore broadly financial planning
for ministers, everything frombudgeting to working through a
loan repayment or otherfinancial needs that they need
(13:02):
help with, a loan repayment orother financial needs that they
need help with.
And then also insurance advice,information and, newest to CMC
we also have health insurance,life insurance, disability
insurance I envision insurancethat we can offer to ministers
as well.
The second category,compensation as well.
(13:27):
The second category,compensation.
We work with presbyterians insessions and talk about
compensation for ministers withthem, as we are consulted, but
we also have an onlinecompensation tool that we
believe can provide a target oran idea of what a minister might
need to be compensated, andwhat we view as the advantage of
that tool is within 10 minutesyou can get at least a ballpark
idea of what a minister shouldbe paid.
(13:51):
Fourth, soul care.
That really starts to get atthe heart of why CMC was formed
where attend to more of theemotional and other needs of
ministers, and so we try toprovide different counseling and
other resources, connectingpeople with mentors or whatever
they might need, so they are noton an island as a minister or a
(14:13):
minister's wife.
And then, fourthly, we'vereally been trying to focus on
rest, providing appropriateperiods of rest for ministers
through sabbaticals, retreatsand the like.
So those are really the fourcategories, but perhaps of
interest to listeners of theReformed Deacon.
Part of that, component of whatCMC has been asked to do is to
(14:36):
provide a level of care,diaconal care, to ministers and
their families, and so I'm surewe'll talk about that more in a
bit.
Chris Cashen (14:47):
Great.
Thank you, John.
Could you just give us a briefoverview of your involvement
with the committee as director?
John Fikkert (14:54):
Yes, so I am the one full-time employee of the
Committee on Ministerial Care,so that means perhaps much like
how David serves CDM.
I handle a lot of thecorrespondence and am connecting
whoever's inquiring, whetherit's a minister, an elder, a
deacon or a church member,trying to connect them with the
(15:15):
right resource or answer aquestion they might have, and so
that also means planning outnew projects or overseeing
initiatives that we've begun.
So essentially, I am thefull-time employee of the CMC.
Chris Cashen (15:34):
Very good, thank you.
Tim Hopper (15:36):
David, could you share with us how the CDM is
organized similarly and how itbreaks down into different
components?
David Nakhla (15:43):
Sure, very good, thank you help.
And Trish Dugan, who is kind ofrunning even this podcast right
now, is a significant componentto enabling the work to go
(16:04):
forward.
Just very competent and helpful.
She's our communicationscoordinator, so she makes sure
that all our publications arehappening and helpful.
And then we also have the helpof Alison Groot, who also works
part time for us and helps somuch of the administrative tasks
and keeps us running well.
(16:25):
So we work together, the threeof us, and that's been really,
really great to have a team inthat way and a team that's for
those who want to contact us.
We're more available that way.
The CDM I remember when I firstcame on the CDM there were no
subcommittees and so everybodydid everything and those
committee meetings were soexhausting because it was a deep
(16:46):
dive into one topic and then wecome up for air and take a
total deep dive into anothertopic and total different topic
and I think we quickly realizedthat just too much and we were
hard for us to serve well, andso it was not too long into that
that we realized the need tothe committee, realized the need
to create subcommittees andfive different areas, and the
(17:09):
first is the aid requestsubcommittee.
They receive requests that cometo the committee, whether it's
requests bubbling up through thepresbyteries or requests coming
from sister churches around theworld or requests coming from
(17:32):
our sister committees of the OPC, foreign Missions Committee and
maybe even CMC and others.
So that's the aid requestsubcommittee.
The diaconal trainingsubcommittee is focused on, as
it says, the training of deacons.
So that committee is working onthe summits, working on
(17:52):
training material, making surethat we're providing articles
for publication and New Horizons, ordained Servant, those type
of things and just open tothinking of new ways to come
alongside our deacons locally,which is where the main area for
diaconal work is local.
And then disaster response againa total different area but
(18:14):
important area of the work ofthe Committee on Diaconal
Ministries.
We have a subcommittee who'sjust focused on that.
When a disaster happens, whatdoes that look like?
How do we get organized?
What is our relationship withthe local church that's impacted
?
What roles do we need to havepeople fill to serve in those
capacities?
How do we raise funds for adisaster response, those type of
(18:36):
things and get the word out,raising up volunteers?
That's the disaster responsesubcommittee.
We have a missionary deaconsubcommittee.
This is just focused on comingalongside missionary deacons,
visiting them, encouraging them,recruiting them, whatever we
can to assist them in their work.
That's one of our subcommitteesand our final one is the
(18:58):
refugee ministry SubcommitteeAgain another whole different
realm of work, but this isprobably one of our committees
that has had a lot of work to doin recent years.
When the Ukraine crisishappened, we realized that was
significantly a refugee eventand so the Ukraine Crisis Fund
was put under the RefugeeMinistry Subcommittee and that's
(19:20):
been a lot of work.
But also domestically, theMinistry to Refugees in
Clarkston, georgia, under thePresbyterian Southeast big
interest that subcommittee hasin it.
So that's the subcommittees,and we don't know what the
future holds as other areas ofDiakon Ministry rise to the
point of our involvement.
We'll probably have anothersubcommittee that's focused on
(19:42):
that.
Very good, thank you.
Chris Cashen (19:44):
So now we want to drill down a little bit.
We've got a broad overview ofboth committees.
John, I think one of the thingsthat the Committee on
Ministerial Care now takes careof or is overseeing is the
Obadiah Fund.
Can you just give us anexplanation of what that is and
then maybe touch upon how, if atall, it relates to the CDM?
John Fikkert (20:07):
Yes.
So to start, the Obadiah Fundbegan in the mid-2000s really
with a concerned couple that wasseeing retired ministers and
their wives retiring with notvery much money and they were
concerned that it would bedifficult for many OP ministers
to make ends meet.
So in a conversation with thevarious people in the OPC, the
(20:33):
Obadiah Fund was set up andadministered by CDM originally
Committee on Diaconal Ministriesset up and administered by CDM
originally Committee on DiaconalMinistries.
And that Obadiah Fund continuesto this day.
It has now, I would say, manydonors and continues to play a
critical role in the care ofretired ministers and their
wives and widows.
And there's two primary waysthat that Obadiah Fund works at
(20:57):
this time.
One is that we send an annuallove gift, regardless of need,
just as a way to say hey, we'rethinking of you and this is just
an encouragement to you.
But with that gift we also sayif you have additional needs or
ways that you need help, pleaselet us know.
(21:18):
And so that hopefully helpscreate the conversations we need
to meet actual needs of retiredministers and their wives or
widows.
Another component to the ObadiahFund is how do we make sure
we're talking to all of theObadiah recipients that are in
the OPC and there are certainlyways that either myself or
(21:43):
members of CMC talk to thoseretired ministers and widows.
But part of our goal is for thepresbytery on whose many of
these ministerial membersthey're members of presbytery.
So we're hoping to createcloser ties between ministers
and their presbyteries and alsofor the presbyteries to be aware
(22:05):
of the needs of widows ofretired ministers as well.
So the way that we try to helpensure and create good
connections with thepresbyteries through the
Presbytery Diaconal Committee,good connections with the
presbyteries through thePresbytery Diaconal Committee,
and so before we send out ourannual love gift to everybody,
(22:25):
we send out a letter to thePresbytery Diaconal Committees
reminding them of the Obadiahrecipients in their presbytery
and asking them to contact themand check in with them at that
time.
And we've developed with all 17OPC presbyteries, we've
developed very goodrelationships with those
presbytery committees on caringfor our Obadiah recipients.
Chris Cashen (22:43):
John.
Thank you for talking about thepresbytery diaconal committees,
bringing them into theconversation, David.
What are they?
What are presbytery diaconalcommittees for the local deacon
to understand?
And then, how do they relate tothe CDM?
David Nakhla (22:57):
I like to say that the Committee on Diaconal
Ministries, despite diaconalbeing in the name, does not do a
lot of diaconal work.
Most of the diaconal work ofthe church is done by local
deacons.
Diaconal work is veryface-to-face, it's very personal
(23:19):
, and so the deacons are themain source of diaconal ministry
in our churches.
And even as John was talkingabout the ministry to the
retired ministers, you know theCMC and John are just a small
entity compared to the number ofretired ministers.
Actually, john, how manyretired ministers and widows are
there now?
(23:46):
In rough numbers, there's about130 retired ministers and about
35 widows of retired ministers.
Yeah, so that's a huge body ofthe church spread out across the
denomination, across the US,and predominantly the ministers
should be ministered to by theirpresbytery.
That's where their membershipis, that's where the presbytery
serves them, and so I don't knowthe history.
It's something I'm veryinterested in learning but I
(24:09):
don't know the history ofpresbytery diaconal committees
in the OPC.
But all of our 17 presbyterieshave a diaconal committee.
It's in the ethos of the OPC.
Again, I don't know how thatdeveloped because actually some
of our sister denominationsdon't have presbytery diaconal
committees.
(24:29):
But I'm very thankful to havethat because the presbytery
diaconal committee serves as aconnection point between the
Denominational Committee onMinisterial Care Committee on
Diagnostic Ministries, and thelocal deacons.
I like to say that we describeit as the network of deacons
deacons serving locally, deaconsserving regionally and deacons
(24:52):
serving denominationally.
And so sometimes there's anoccasion where you deacons, in
your local church, you have asignificant need and you say
this is a great need, somethingwe really should minister to,
but we're just tapped out.
I mean, we only have so muchresources here locally.
Well, the blessing of being aconnected church is that it
(25:15):
doesn't end with you.
We're not congregational, we'reactually part of a bigger body.
And so, local deacons, if youare not aware of this, you have
the ability, each of you in yourlocal church, have the ability
to reach out to the diaconalcommittee, the presbytery level
diaconal committee, and make anappeal to them for additional
(25:38):
resources.
And they're going to want tosee that you've done your work
and considering that request andconsidering that need and
you're actually responding to itand you're passing along to
them some of the gap betweenwhat the need is and what you
think the church should besupplying, but what you're able
to.
And that committee then canconsider that request and can
(26:02):
participate.
And sometimes there's occasionswhere that need actually exceeds
the capacity of the presbyteryand those needs can be bubbled
up to the Committee onDiagnostic Ministries.
And in that way you can seethat the whole church, whole
denomination, whole OPC, iscoming alongside one need in one
presbytery, in one church,maybe even one family, maybe
(26:23):
even one individual, the wholechurch ministering in that way.
And again, I just always thinkthat's just a beautiful
expression of the body of Christministering one to another.
Even as one part suffers, wesuffer together, and so that's
the Presbytery DiaconalCommittee.
They've got variousresponsibilities.
They're very concerned aboutthe ministers and the care of
(26:44):
ministers, and we'll let Johntalk about that a little bit.
But if you deacons, have a needin your local church not
involving the minister, but justa need in one of your families,
you should know that you have aresource that's beyond the
local church and that's thePresbytery Diaconal Committee.
If you need contact info forthat, you can find that contact
info on our website, opcdmorg.
(27:07):
You could talk to your pastor,who's a member of the Presbytery
.
He should have that contactinfo as well.
But avail yourself of thatsuper important and valuable
resource in the OPC.
Tim Hopper (27:18):
One thing I don't think we've mentioned is that
the Committee on DiaconalMinistries is made up of church
officers, four of whom must bedeacons, and the Committee on
Ministerial Care doesn't have tohave deacons but can have, I
believe, as many as three.
John, has the CMC ever had adeacon on it?
Chris Cashen (27:38):
yet.
John Fikkert (27:39):
We did.
We actually had a deacon whoserved really well but then had
to step away, so we'd love toadd a deacon again in the future
.
Tim Hopper (27:49):
Yeah, and the Presbyterian Diaconal Committees
, predominantly, are composed ofa variety of officers, some of
which, in most presbyteries Ithink, have to be deacons.
But I think it's something forour brothers to think about
serving.
I would love to see somedeacons on the CMC.
I just think it would improveour partnership and just a good
(28:10):
perspective to bring to thatcommittee partnership with the
Committee on Diaconal Ministries, I mean.
But you know, I think thesethings can sometimes be missed
by deacons because deaconsaren't at Presbytery and General
Assembly meetings where thesetypes of things are discussed.
So you know, I think if this issomething that would be
interesting to you, you do haveto be voted in typically and
(28:31):
that requires there would be anopening in various things.
But you know, share with yourpastor and share your interest
and an elder and talk to them,or speak to one of us and try to
find out more.
We'd be happy to share whatinvolvement looks like.
David Nakhla (28:46):
And who better to speak to that than Deacon Tim
Hopper, who serves faithfullylocally, regionally and
denominationally?
I think the only guy and theonly deacon in the history of
the OPC who has servedsimultaneously at all three
levels, and maybe ever whoserved at all three levels.
So I thought you set a greatexample, tim, in that.
Tim Hopper (29:07):
Talk to the guy who doesn't know how to say no, yeah
, we need more of those.
I'd be happy to talk to folksabout it.
It's something to think about,potentially years in advance.
It depends on when these seatsbecome available.
But you know, many times thenominations might come up at
Presbyterian General Assemblyand pastors might be scrambling
(29:28):
to think who to nominate.
But if you've spoken of sharedinterest just makes that an
easier decision or an easierthing to consider.
So certainly consider it.
David Nakhla (29:39):
So, tim, I think that one of the things that the
Committee on Diaconal Ministries, and even this particular
episode of the podcast, hopes todo is for to give deacons a
larger vision of the church andwhat that service in the church
can look like.
And our elders, our pastors andelders are very accustomed to,
(30:07):
you know, serving at presbyterylevel, on different committees
and maybe even denominational.
But deacons are predominantly,most of their work is local, as
it should be, and it's great andimportant for them to have a
local focus.
But you know, the OPC is theOrthodox Presbyterian Church.
We're not churches, we are onechurch and so, yeah, we need
deacons who are servingregionally.
(30:29):
We need deacons who are servingdenominationally and maybe it
doesn't mean serving on acommittee.
It could mean being engagedwhen a disaster happens and
coming alongside brothers andsisters in our church who are
suffering by sending a group, bybeing part of a group, maybe
being a coordinator.
You don't always have to be inthe region to be like our
(30:52):
volunteer coordinators areoftentimes somebody from outside
the region.
So there's lots of ways that wecan work together diaconally,
beyond the local church, andthat's one of the things we
really hope you, deacons locally, get a vision for.
Tim Hopper (31:06):
Amen, Absolutely.
We want to think about a fewkind of case study type things
just to understand practicallyhow these committees work with
our local deacons.
First one is a pastor of FirstOPC in Anytown USA is training
up several men who think theymay be called to the office of
deacon.
He has called you it could beDavid or John to ask for help.
(31:29):
What would you want, Pastor Tom, to tell these deacon
candidates about the resourcesthat the CMC or the CDM offer to
those deaconates?
Maybe John, you can go firstand then David.
John Fikkert (31:39):
Yes, I'm going to actually highlight some things
that I think were just said,that I think are really
important.
So if I'm that pastor traininga deacon, I would just highlight
the great benefit of being adeacon in the OPC is that you're
part of a connected church inwhich there are presbytery and
denominational resources for youand you are not on an island
(32:05):
trying to figure this out onyour own.
So what that practically mightlook like is, if I'm a pastor
training a deacon, I'm going togive him the contact information
for the Presbytery DiaconalCommittee.
I'm going to make sure theyknow how to talk to them.
Information for the PresbyteryDiaconal Committee I'm going to
make sure they know how to talkto them.
And then I'm also going tointroduce them to the websites
(32:27):
for CMC and CDM opccmcorg,opccdmorg and have them look at
them and refresh themselves andlearn what those resources are
and perhaps they would want totalk about.
There's a lot of reallyexcellent training resources for
deacons on CDM's website.
David Nakhla (32:43):
Yeah, thank you, john.
I mean that's.
I think that I too would pointthem to opccdmorg.
Trish has served as kind of themastermind behind the website
and has really built out ourresources section.
If you go to obccdmorg, youclick on there's a training tab,
but if you click on resourcesthere's a resources by topic,
(33:05):
and if you click on that you'regoing to find there's more
content there than I've evenread or had the opportunity to
read, organized by topic churchofficers, church safety,
diaconal wisdom, disasterresponse, elderly, financial
assistance, loneliness or etcetera, et cetera.
(33:25):
The stranger visitingWestminster Standards.
There's just so much stuffthere, and so that's super
helpful.
You click on the training tab.
You can find case studies.
You can find video and audiofor previous summits if that's
interesting to you to hear thosesummits that you were not able
to be part of.
(33:45):
Our first summit was.
The speaker at that firstsummit was Brian Fickert, when
Helping Hurts, the author ofwhen Helping Hurts, which has
become a must-read for anybodyin charitable work, and then the
second summit was his co-author.
So those are there.
There's just lots of material.
The training material is anarea that we specifically.
Training of deacons issomething that we are working on
(34:07):
.
It's a recurring question, butthere really is a lot of
material on the website.
That's where I'd be pointingTom at First OPC in any town USA
.
Chris Cashen (34:19):
Good advice.
So John Deacon Rick.
He's noted that his pastor islooking a bit worn out.
He's a solo pastor with onlyone ruling elder on the session.
He carries a heavy load ofpreaching and spiritual
oversight.
Rick has spoken to the elderand the elder has noticed it
(34:41):
also, but doesn't have any ideasto help the pastor, considering
this to be an opportunity toserve as pastor.
Rick picks up the phone butstruggles with knowing the right
number to enter.
Do you have any direction forDeacon Rick?
John Fikkert (35:00):
Yeah, he would be welcome to contact the Committee
on Ministerial Care to discussresources.
I also think it'd be importantto remind that deacon that his
(35:27):
minister, in addition to servingat the local church, is a
member of Presbytery and itmight be worth figuring out
someone to contact in thePresbytery a trusted friend of
that minister, or, if he's notsure who to contact in that
Presbytery, he can contact me.
But most Presbyteries will havea ministerial care committee or
(35:48):
a visitation committee orsomebody that's concerned for
the welfare of ministers, and soI would want that deacon to be
thinking about what are thepresbytery resources I might
have, as well as ways that CMCmight have a resource to
careaconally for that minister.
Chris Cashen (36:06):
Very good, thank you.
David Nakhla (36:08):
What number was that again, john, I didn't hear
it.
1-800-i-need-help.
John Fikkert (36:14):
If you go to our website there's contact
information for me and for ourpart-time administrators and my
email and phone number is there.
My number is 641-651-0346, anda deacon or minister or elder
would be welcome to call me atthat number and we can talk
(36:34):
through the situation.
I would also add to my previousanswer that there are
counseling resources that CMCtries to connect for ministers
and that would mean eithersomebody in the presbytery or
locally as a counselor.
If the pastor would beinterested in a counselor, if
they're really needing somebodyto talk to, we'll try to figure
(36:57):
out a resource for them to talkto.
Or if it's somebody in theirfamily that's struggling, we'll
connect them with that resource.
We try to help with referrals,but then we also not.
Every health insurance plan forministers pays for counseling,
so CMC also helps to pay for thecounseling if that becomes a
(37:17):
need as well.
Tim Hopper (37:19):
Great.
I've talked to John about anumber of different things over
the years and it's always beenhelpful, so he does really make
himself accessible to us.
Let's move on to anotherscenario.
We're back with Pastor Tom inAnytown.
He has four children and a wifewho has been chronically ill.
Investigation has been done andfound a serious mold problem in
his home which has causedhealth issues.
(37:39):
To remove the mold the familyis required to move out and have
significant months-longremediation work done in the
home.
Insurance will not cover therental, the work nor the
pastor's absence from the pulpitfor a time if he relocates out
of the area.
The local diaconal fund is notsufficient to help with this
need.
Who can help Deacon Rick, as heloves his pastor and wants to
care for him?
David, would you like to takethat one?
David Nakhla (38:02):
Yeah, this is, I think, a helpful distinction for
deacons to know, although we'rehappy to unwind it at our end.
But when you have a need that'sdiaconal in nature, that
pertains to your pastor, youwould go to the Committee on
Ministerial Care.
All ministerial related stuff,diaconal and or otherwise, go to
(38:26):
them and then anything else.
If this was the home ofsomebody, one of the church
members who would come to thecommittee on diaconal ministries
, that said and I guess I'm kindof skipping a step both of
those would be routed throughthe Presbyterian Diaconal
Committee.
And so, either way, localdeacon, you find needs that are
significant like this in yourpastor situation and or somebody
(38:48):
else in the congregation, andthis exceeds the capacity of
your local church, localdiaconal fund, you should feel
ready to go to the PresbyteryDiaconal Committee.
I already talked about that.
But that is a huge resourcethat is available to you.
That Presbyterian DiaconalCommittee may seek to respond to
(39:08):
it directly, but if it's againbeyond their capacity, then they
will know.
If it's a ministerial thing,they're going to go to the
committee community ministerialcare.
If it's not ministerial, thenthey'll come to my committee
Communion of Diaconal Ministries.
But yeah, you should nothesitate to involve your
Presbyterian Diaconal Committeeon matters such as this, and
(39:30):
this situation sounds prettysignificant and should not be
overlooked, as I hear thescenario associated with health
issues for the pastor and hisfamily.
Tim Hopper (39:40):
Yeah, it was actually based on a true story
and was able to be handled inour presbytery, and the churches
came together and were able tomeet this need together without
needing to raise it to theCommittee on Ministerial Care,
but certainly knowing that itwas an option for us as well.
And I think you know, with allof this, folks don't need to
necessarily feel like they needto memorize the procedure or
protocol for any of this.
(40:01):
You can just pick up the phoneor send an email to whoever you
need to Reach out to.
Tim John gave his number.
David Nakhla (40:10):
But you know no that's true.
Tim Hopper (40:11):
That's true though.
David Nakhla (40:13):
We will reroute things.
I mean, you know, if somebodyreaches out with something,
we're doing that all the time,but reaching out is key, as you
say, tim, and don't hesitate toreach out.
It's okay if you go the wrongdirection.
We'll get it in the rightdirection, but yeah raise the
flag for sure.
Tim Hopper (40:28):
Yeah, let's talk briefly about our summits that
we have.
We have two different events,one called the Presbytery
Diaconal Summit and the NationalDiaconal Summit, and I think
the Presbytery Diaconal Summitis sometimes a little bit of a
source of confusion, maybe fromthe name, but we're planning a
Presbytery Diaconal Summit for2025.
And that's really we, in thatthe CDM and the CMC are trying
(40:50):
to work together on that as weserve together.
But, david, can you tell uswhat is a Presbytery Diaconal
Summit and why should a memberof the Presbytery Diaconal
Committee attend?
Maybe?
David Nakhla (41:00):
I'll start a little bit with the history of
that.
I remember actually in my earlyyears associated with the
Committee on Diaconal Ministry,there were lots of discussions
within the Committee on DiaconalMinistries talking about the
Presbytery Diaconal Committeesand what they do, and they do
this and they do that, and wewere actually not so sure that
(41:20):
they did this and they did thatand we talked about them as a
homogenous unit.
But we weren't so sure thatthey did this and they did that
and we talked about them as ahomogenous unit but we weren't
so sure that they were all sosimilar.
And so we reached out to all ofthem, got a hold of their
bylaws and organization andcontact info and all that type
of stuff, and we actually foundthem to be all quite different.
There was really not anoccasion for them to even know
(41:41):
what the other diaconalcommittees were doing in the
other presbyteries and we,denominationally Committee on
Diaconal Ministries, actuallyhad an interest in them looking
more alike so that we could knowwhat to expect with them, and
so actually out of that effort,we created a document called the
Proposed PDC Mandate.
You can find that on ourwebsite and slowly by slowly,
(42:04):
the presbytery diaconalCommittees of our 17
Presbyteries began to adopt thatmandate as their mandate and
became more organized ascommittees, getting the right
guys on the committees, growingtheir committees to have
ministers, presbyters, but alsodeacons, and a lot of that was a
fruit of the PresbyteryDiaconal Summit.
So the Presbytery DiaconalSummit, so the Presbytery
(42:25):
Diaconal Summit is somethingwe're trying to do it now every
two years, where we actuallyinvite members of the Presbytery
Diaconal Committees not thelocal deacons but Presbytery
Diaconal Committees to cometogether and at those summits we
seek to encourage them in theirlabors but really help cast a
vision for what that work canlook like.
There's so much work that aPresbyterian Diaconal Committee
(42:48):
can do.
I serve on the PresbyterianDiaconal Committee for the
Presbyterian of Philadelphia,where I reside, and every
meeting, as we're workingthrough our mandate, we think of
a whole new area of work thatwe could be focused on, and so
we meet quarterly discussing,going through our mandate and
seeking to hit those differentareas of the mandate.
(43:08):
So but we also realize that theCDM is not the only one who has
an interest in the PresbyterianDiaconal Committees, but also
the CMC has a significantinterest in the Presbyterian
Diaconal Committees and theireffective work in the Presbytery
Diaconal Committees and theireffective work, and so we've
(43:28):
invited the CMC to partner withus in hosting the Presbytery
Diaconal Summits, and so theywere at the last couple.
They've been there and Johnplans to be in attendance and
presenting at our next one,which is in the fall of 2025, a
little more than a year from nowwe'll be holding that is in the
fall of 2025, a little morethan a year from now.
We'll be holding that and thePresbyterian Diaconal Summit.
(43:48):
We pretty much will coveralmost all the expenses of those
who attend.
So if you are serving on aPresbyterian Diaconal Committee,
we encourage you to reallyconsider this three-day event.
You fly in on Thursday.
We begin on Thursday night, allday Friday.
You fly in on Thursday.
We begin on Thursday night, allday Friday.
Send you home on Saturday.
(44:08):
We have it located in centralin Chicago area so that guys
from both coasts can get therein a day and get home in a day,
and we're going to cover yourflight, we're going to cover the
cost of expenses, but we reallywant you to be there and really
get a sense of what that workcan.
Be there and really get a senseof what that work can be the
(44:28):
better.
Our Presbytery DiaconalCommittees serve our ministers,
serve our local deacons, thenthat whole network of deacons
becomes so much more robust.
And to quote Lyndall Smith, thePresbytery Diaconal Committee
is the linchpin of our diaconalnetwork, and so we're very
interested in the work ofdiaconal committees at the
progeterial level.
John, anything to add to that?
John Fikkert (44:49):
Yeah, actually, hopefully this is a helpful
comment.
If you're a listener andperhaps a deacon listening,
you're like all right, thispresbytery diaconal committee,
it sounds really important.
We've talked a lot about it.
I have no clue who's on mypresbytery diaconal Committee.
The way to figure that out isactually through CDM's website.
If you go to opccdmorg, one ofthe top tabs on the menu bar
(45:11):
says PDC and that will take youright to information for your
presbytery, for who you mightwant to talk to at the
presbytery level, and it'll alsotell you who's likely going to
be at this Presbytery DiaconalSummit that David was just
talking about.
But that'll help, I believe,give some of the structure for
who's on the Presbytery DiaconalCommittees.
(45:33):
And then on CMC's website Iknow it shares who are the
members of CMC so you can learnmore about who's on the
Nominational Committee.
And I believe CDM has somethingsimilar on their website for
who all the members of CDM areand their subcommittees as well.
David Nakhla (45:50):
That's right.
Yep, again, if that's opccdmorg, if you click on the about, you
can definitely find who's onthe committee on diaconal
ministries.
Thanks for that, john.
Tim Hopper (45:59):
We also have on the website opccdmorg from the last
two Presbytery Diaconal Summits.
We've recorded most of thematerial of those.
So this is not some big secretthing that the CDM and
Presbytery Diaconal Committeesare doing, and a lot of those
resources would be interestingand potentially helpful for
local diaconates as well.
So you can go check that out.
David Nakhla (46:19):
If I can add to that, tim.
I mean, if this rings your bell, you know which we hope it does
if you, as a local deacon, say,wow, I'd love to serve at the
presbytery level on a diaconalcommittee, it's hard oftentimes
to find a deacon who's nottotally, entirely tapped out and
who's willing to make himselfavailable to serve beyond the
(46:39):
local church.
So if that's of interest to youand I encourage you to talk to
your pastor about that, or maybethe elder or elders who go to
Presbytery, and next timethere's an opening they can put
forth your name.
But we're always needingdeacons who are willing to serve
the Presbytery level.
(46:59):
So make yourself known,absolutely.
John Fikkert (47:03):
Can I throw an additional idea out there?
If there's a listener that's adeacon saying I might eventually
feel an interest or a callingto serve on a denominational
committee, probably the best wayto introduce yourself to what
that might look like would be toserve on a presbytery committee
first, and then that helpspeople get to know you as well.
So if you have any sense ofcalling or interest in serving
(47:25):
beyond your local church, apresbytery committee would be a
great way to start.
Tim Hopper (47:30):
Absolutely, david.
Let's talk quickly so we canwrap up here about the National
Diaconal Summit.
That's for all deacons and afew years off.
But tell us briefly about those.
David Nakhla (47:40):
Yeah.
So we began having NationalDiaconal Summits in 2010, 2010,
2012, 2017, 2022, and our nextone is in 2026.
That is a wonderful event.
You got to come.
If you're a local deacon, yougot to come.
(48:01):
It is again.
You'll fly on Thursday.
You get there on Thursday fordinner and it begins on Thursday
night and the day together allon Friday and then fly home on
Saturday.
These are once every four years.
Put a ton of work into puttingit together.
For those, if you haven't been,talk to somebody who has been,
(48:24):
you can actually again find allthe previous summit material on
our website.
But yeah, to me there's greattraining, but it's not about the
training.
Some guys say, hey, can we livestream it, can we?
You know, can I just stay home?
And no, it's not about it'sabout being together, it's about
(48:44):
building relationships.
It's a networking.
That's not about it's aboutbeing together.
It's about buildingrelationships.
It's a networking.
That's why we call it thesummit.
It's really about gatheringtogether with like-minded men
and brothers from across the US,across the denomination, and
even we even have some deaconscome from sister denominations
and join us in this as well,from sister denominations, and
join us in this as well.
So plans are underway for 2026,and you will need to cover your
(49:08):
travel costs Once you get there.
We'll cover the costs.
I'd like to say that I thinkthat you can talk to your elders
if you need to, but I thinkit's a legitimate and useful use
of diaconal funds to build upthe deacons in their work.
But whatever you need to do,get there and you won't be
disappointed.
You won't feel like it was awaste of your time.
It will be hopefully ahighlight in that year, in that
(49:31):
four-year period.
Chris Cashen (49:33):
Brothers, this has been wonderful, but Deacon Rick
is still on the line with you.
Before you go, I want you toplant one last seed into his
mind.
So you're finishing yourconversation, you have this
moment.
How would you fill in thisblank in this unfinished
(49:54):
statement, deacon Rick?
Please think of the Committeeon Ministerial Care when you got
a blank there, john.
You need to fill that in for us.
What do you want Deacon Rick toknow?
Just this one time?
John Fikkert (50:08):
When you're thinking about the care of
ministers and their familymembers, or if you're aware of
retired ministers or widows thatare either in your local church
or nearby.
Please think of the Committeeon Ministerial Care for Diaconal
Needs.
Chris Cashen (50:27):
Excellent, excellent, david.
Same question.
Deacon Rick is there, you gotthis one moment.
What do you want to plant inhis mind before he goes?
David Nakhla (50:35):
When you're thinking about how to get that
beautiful, the Reformed Deaconpodcast t-shirt that everybody
loves to wear and you don't haveone, you need to be thinking
about the Committee on DiaconalMinistries.
That's not the answer you'relooking for, chris.
Sorry about that.
No, no, no, actually, yeah,when there are needs beyond the
(50:58):
capacity of the local church, Ilike to say that you cannot come
to the conclusion that we can'tmeet this need until you've
plumbed the depths of thediaconal resources of the OPC.
And so if it's really alegitimate need that you need to
meet, but you don't have theresources, you need to move
forward with reaching out to thePreparatory Diaconal Committee
(51:18):
and that could eventually cometo the Committee on Diaconal
Ministries denominationally.
So there you go.
Chris Cashen (51:24):
Brothers, thank you so much.
This has been very informativefor me and certainly, I'm hoping
, for our local deacons.
Thank you for taking the timeto discuss your respective
committees with us today,deacons.
We hope that this episode hasbeen helpful and will certainly
be an encouragement to you andyour labors for the Lord.
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