June 1, 2024 • 44 mins
In this episode OPC minister, Lowell Ivey, joins host David Nakhla, to talk about the importance of ministry to those in prison, specifically to the surprisingly large number who are in the family of God. Lowell talks about the importance of a Reformed approach to prison ministry, and points out the profound void that mature believers in prison often feel when they are not enjoying regular interaction with fellow believers, receiving the sacraments and necessary pastoral care.
Lowell shares from his experience how vital it is for inmates to have regular contact with Christ's church and how deacons can be a vital resource in leading their churches in this ministry. Lowell reflects on his life changing time in prison; from his conversion, subsequent call to ministry and the path on which the Lord has led him from inmate to preacher of the Gospel.
Learn about the profound impact of family visits and letters on inmates' lives as Lowell shares his personal experiences of spiritual growth through correspondence with a mentor pastor. Lowell highlights the importance of viewing inmates as our neighbors, affirming their worth in Jesus' name and how the church community can collectively support incarcerated individuals and their families through diaconal ministry.
This episode is essential listening for anyone interested in finding out more about the powerful impact of loving those behind bars.
Referenced in this episode:
Metanoia Prison Ministry
You can find all of our episodes at thereformeddeacon.org. Make sure to follow us on your favorite podcast player, so you don't miss an episode. Follow us on Facebook and Instagram for giveaways and more information. Find other resources on OPCCDM.org. Make sure to send us some feedback on your podcast player or ask a diaconal question by going to OPCCDM.org.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Lowell Ivey (00:00):
I was in prison as a Christian for nine years
without any connectionwhatsoever to the visible church
, but longing for thatconnection and writing letters
and seeking that connection, andso I think we need to do a
better job of thinking aboutthat important reality.
David Nakhla (00:18):
Welcome to the Reformed Deacon, a casual
conversation with topicsspecifically designed to help
local Reformed Deacons.
There are nearly a thousandDeacons in the OPC alone, so
let's take this opportunity tolearn from and encourage one
another.
We're so glad you could join us.
Let's jump into our nextepisode.
My name is David Nakhla.
(00:39):
I serve as the Administratorfor the OPC's Committee on
Diacon Ministries and today, onthe Reformed Deacon Podcast,
I'll be talking with OPCMinister Lowell.
Ivey Lowell has a unique storyto share in that he came to know
Christ while serving 15 yearsin prison for armed robbery, 10
of those years in solitaryconfinement.
(01:00):
He has described it as the bestthing that could have happened
to him.
Solitary confinement he hasdescribed it as the best thing
that could have happened to him.
After his release in 2009, hewas warmly welcomed into the
fellowship of a small OPcongregation in Longview, texas.
There he met his wife, may.
He went on to attend GreenvillePresbyterian Theological
Seminary with the dream ofserving in full-time prison
(01:21):
ministry as an ordained minister.
After graduating from seminaryin 2015, he served a year-long
internship and felt the Lord wascalling him into pastoral
ministry.
He went on to serve as pastorof Reformation OPC in Virginia
Beach for over seven years andis now the director of Metanoia
Prison Ministries, where heworks to engage, educate and
(01:44):
equip the church for thediscipleship, mentoring and
reintegration of prisoners.
Lowell and his wife have fivechildren.
So, lowell, thank you fortaking the time to be here,
brother.
Lowell Ivey (01:56):
Thank you, David.
It's a great privilege to bewith you.
David Nakhla (01:58):
Lowell.
In Matthew 25, when Christ isseparating the sheep and goats
on judgment day, he identifiesthe sheep as those who
ministered mercy to him byministering mercy to his
brothers.
Among those various ministriesof mercy listed is the one I was
in prison and you came to me,lowell.
(02:21):
You were that one in prison andyou're now outside of prison
overseeing that ministry tothose behind bars.
I'm hoping to learn from youwhat diaconal ministry looks
like to those behind bars, butbefore we get there, can we
begin by you telling us a bitabout yourself from solitary
confinement to minister of thegospel?
Lowell Ivey (02:40):
Well, as you mentioned, I was incarcerated at
the age of 19 for the crime ofaggravated robbery with a deadly
weapon.
I was 20 when I was sentencedfor that crime and at 20 years
old, hearing the sentence comedown, it felt like my life was
over.
While I was in prison, I joineda white supremacist prison gang
(03:02):
and spent 10 years in solitaryconfinement for my gang
affiliation, beginning in 1997when I was put into solitary.
I didn't have a window in mycell.
I could go out for an hour aday for recreation with a few
other prisoners, but I couldn'tsee grass, I couldn't see trees,
(03:24):
I couldn't see the sun setting.
All I could see was the wall ofanother part of the prison for
those 10 years.
But the Lord used that timepowerfully in my life and in
2000, I was set free in Christwhile listening to a radio
program called here Comes theLight.
The Lord used that radioprogram to shine the light of
(03:45):
the gospel into my heart, tohelp me to see my sin, my need
for Christ, and I cried out tohim asking to be made a new
creature in Christ.
I began listening to RC Sproulon the radio, the Renewing your
Mind broadcast, and through himbegan to get a hold of some
(04:05):
reformed books and was readingthose reading the scriptures,
learning to pray, learning howto understand and to interpret
God's word.
I was finally put back intogeneral population in 2007 after
going through a program calledthe grad program, the gang
Renunciation and Disassociationprogram, and then I was able to
(04:29):
take college classes with thehope of going to seminary one
day and serving as an ordainedminister in full-time reformed
prison ministry.
I was already seeing the needfor distinctively reformed
prison ministry before I got out.
I was released on parole in2009 from the Huntsville unit in
(04:49):
Huntsville, Texas, and thenmade my way to Tyler, Texas,
where I was in a non-ReformedBible program for those being
released, but eventually wasable to meet an OPC pastor in
Longview, Texas.
His name was Phil Hodson and wasbrought into his home, lived
(05:10):
with him, his wife and his twochildren, and got to see things
like family worship for thefirst time.
I met my wife there, at Christthe King OPC in Longview in 2010
, and I also began seminary thatsame year and then graduated.
We were married in 2011, and Igraduated from seminary in 2015,
(05:31):
and then did a year-longinternship at Covenant Community
OPC in Taylor, south Carolina.
By that time I was alreadybeginning to think that the Lord
might be calling me intopastoral ministry rather than an
exclusive focus on prisonministry, that maybe one aspect
of my work would be prisonministry as a pastor and even in
(05:54):
presbytery settings.
I was thinking I might be ableto speak about prison-related
issues in the presbytery setting.
And now, as I look back on it,as I've been called to this new
ministry with Metanoia PrisonMinistries, I see how the Lord
was preparing me through my timein prison, but also my time
serving as a pastor.
I really see that as a valuableexperience for what I'm doing
(06:18):
now.
David Nakhla (06:20):
You told me a story about, I think, you had
been stabbed or cut in theprison and there was a nurse who
was patching you up and shenoticed the tattoos on your arms
.
Would you be willing to sharethat story?
Lowell Ivey (06:34):
Yeah, I appreciate you mentioning that my cellmate
had gotten into trouble withanother inmate.
They were doing stuff theyshouldn't be doing and he was
actually on parole and he wasout arguing with the guy on the
called it the run.
It was just the balcony outsideof our second floor prison
cells and he came in.
(06:55):
He thought things were over,but I had a feeling things
weren't over and I was lookingout the door and the guy that he
was arguing with came at uswith a blade.
I looked down and saw rightaway that he had a blade, so I
slammed the door shut, put myarm through it so he couldn't
open the door.
It was bars on the prison doorand he tried to cut me.
(07:19):
I was able to get just farenough out of the way that he
didn't cut my throat, but he wasable to cut me on my arms and
then he went back to his celland cut himself to make it look
like we had been fighting ratherthan him just attacking me.
I was taken to the infirmaryafter everything got under
control and a black nurse wastreating me.
(07:41):
Nurse was treating me and I wasreally feeling pretty bad about
my tattoos, because one of mytattoos is a Ku Klux Klansman,
and she was having to look atthat as she was treating me, and
I said you know, that's not whoI am anymore.
Just want you to know that.
And she said, oh really, Well,who are you?
And I said, well, I'm abeliever in the Lord Jesus
(08:03):
Christ.
And she said, well, so am I.
And then she said, don't everget your tattoos removed.
That's part of your testimony.
I didn't take her counsel onthat.
I did start trying to get themremoved.
They're a lot more faded nowthan they were then, but it was
just such a blessing for me tosee how she responded in such a
(08:23):
way, despite what she was seeing, what she was being confronted
with with those tattoos.
David Nakhla (08:30):
Very powerful story.
So, lowell, I've heard I don'tremember where I heard it, but
they say one of the biggestfears in life is the fear of
being forgotten.
How important do you think isvisitation for prisoners,
particularly for brothers andsisters in Christ who are behind
bars, and what does that looklike?
Lowell Ivey (08:51):
That's a great question.
Maybe I could touch on that byasking you imagine living 24
hours a day with a few hundredconvicted criminals all around.
Those are your neighbors.
You're constantly with peoplewho are scrutinizing your every
move.
You're constantly aware of yourneed to measure up to their
(09:24):
expectations of you.
In a very brutal andunforgiving prison culture, you
cannot show even the slightestindication of fear or weakness
or vulnerability, or you will betaken advantage of.
Every other human being aroundyou reinforces those unwritten
rules of prison life.
And then now, imagining allthat, imagine how desperate you
(09:46):
would be for just some glimpseof warmth, some human affection,
some indication of care orconcern, some genuine expression
of love and compassion.
These are all the very thingsthat the prison culture
dismisses as weak.
These are all the very thingsthat the prison culture
dismisses as weak, it's allweakness, and now just to bring
(10:18):
that a little more into focus.
Visits from family members inprison are really the very high
points of life.
That and getting a piece ofmail are really just the two
highest points of life that canbe imagined.
And if you're there waiting formail to go around at mail call,
the officer goes around cell bycell and he's coming around and
then he walks on by, Get apiece of mail that day or
(10:43):
visitation is being called andyou don't get called out.
I never received a visit thewhole time I was in prison,
because the bridges with familyhad been burned and they lived
pretty far away too.
So a visit from a Christian oreven just a letter and I did
have those who wrote letters tome, or even just a letter.
(11:05):
And I did have those who wroteletters to me.
I had one mentor who wrote mefor years, a pastor on the
outside who was instrumental inmy Christian growth and
development.
I'm Presbyterian today becauseof his ministry to me.
(11:25):
So a visit from a fellowbeliever or a letter it has the
effect of reminding you thatyou're not just a number, and I
was number 702233.
I'll never forget that number.
That's who I was.
If you looked at my ID card, atone point it said inmate.
And then I guess that wasn'tenough and so the Texas prison
system, in red letters, putoffender on everybody's ID cards
(11:51):
, and so it was a constantreminder that you which in a
sense is not a bad thing there'sthis constant reminder.
If I'm thinking about it rightly, I've offended God, offended
the state of Texas, and I'veoffended the victims of my crime
, but as a Christian, you'restill looking at that, the big
(12:11):
red letters and it says offender, and you struggle at times with
the guilt that you feel and theneed for some affirmation from
another believer that your lifematters, that you have intrinsic
value because you're made inthe image of God, and then for a
believer I would say, a visitor a letter is a tangible
(12:32):
reminder that you're actuallypart of the body of Christ,
you're actually welcomed, eventhough you're in prison, as
belonging to Jesus Christ.
That's great as belonging toJesus.
David Nakhla (12:44):
Christ.
That's great.
Can you talk about how youheard this radio message?
How did you get in touch withChristians' ministry?
What did that path look likefor you as an inmate?
Lowell Ivey (12:58):
There were various ways that you could get in touch
with people.
For example, if you knewanother Christian who knew, some
people on the outside could beput in touch that way.
There were ministries that madethemselves available.
For example, the ministry thatI'm director of now, metanoia
Prison Ministries, has acorrespondence program where
volunteers from the outside cangrade lessons and write letters
(13:22):
of encouragement.
There are many ministries likethat, especially Christian
ministries, and so you can findout about them in various ways.
Also, there were people whowould come in and who would know
about various ministries andwould connect you that way.
David Nakhla (13:38):
If you had the ability to suddenly make every
church interested in open toministry to inmates in prisons,
every deacon?
If you could just snap yourfingers, what would that look
like?
Lowell Ivey (13:52):
Well, thank you for that.
The reality is is that notevery church is near a prison,
but every church has anincarcerated population nearby.
I just looked at the statisticsthere are 1.3 million people
who are incarcerated in variousforms of incarceration.
(14:17):
Many of those are in countyjails awaiting their sentencing
and those county jails are atthe local level.
And those county jails are atthe local level.
So local churches usually willhave some incarcerated
(14:38):
population nearby, either jails,juvenile detention facilities
or what have you countydetention centers.
Who said that?
He mentioned outreach toneighbors around the church, to
folks in the church, and he wastold that well, we really don't
have any neighbors around thechurch.
You know, some churches are notreally in residential
neighborhoods and so forth.
(14:59):
So he pointed to a toweringbuilding that was able to be
seen by members of the church asthey went to the church and it
was the jail.
And he said well, you actuallydo have a lot of neighbors.
They're just incarceratedneighbors and they're a little
harder to get to know and tomeet.
(15:21):
But they're there and thepastor of his church began
praying regularly for theirincarcerated neighbors.
He became more cognizant of itthrough the ministry of this man
and then the members becameincreasingly aware and became
more and more excited aboutministering to people in that
(15:45):
jail nearby.
I would say that diaconalministry is not about doing
everything in the church thatnobody else is doing.
You drilled that into my head,david.
Diaconal ministry is really nottrying to do it all.
You'll wear your deacons outthat way, but diaconal ministry
(16:05):
is about organizing andencouraging the church to be the
body of Christ, and so you'vealready alluded to Matthew 25.
And I think the interestingthing about the judgment passage
in Matthew 25 is number one thesaints really were just going
about the business of beingsaints, they weren't thinking
too much about it.
(16:25):
But number two, and theyweren't really looking for any
earthly reward at all.
But the second thing is thatthe work that they were doing in
ministering to vulnerablepopulations of people is
regarded as ministry to JesusChrist himself.
I think that's a remarkablething, and so we can think of
(16:48):
prison ministry as not onlyservice to prisoners, but
service to prisoners in the nameof and for the sake of Jesus
Christ.
I would just say you startsmall.
You make sure the needs of thosein prison are brought up in
prayer meetings.
You reach out to those directlyimpacted in your congregation
(17:12):
by incarceration or those withfamily members in prison.
You find out what other groupsare doing.
You know what other groups aredoing jail and prison ministry
around you in your area Contactlocal homeless shelters, rescue
missions.
They usually have good leads onpeople who are getting out or
have just gotten out.
And you partner with ministriesministries like the ministry
(17:35):
that I serve, metanoia PrisonMinistries especially if you
don't have a prison nearby,because it is true there are
going to be a lot of churchesthat don't have a prison nearby,
but that doesn't mean there'snothing that you can do in
ministry to prisoners.
There are many ways to doprison ministry, even right from
(17:56):
our own home, you know.
You can think of it as theremote work version of prison
ministry.
Writing letters ofencouragement.
David Nakhla (18:04):
Right, and when you were saying a lot of
churches have a you know somesort of incarcerated population
nearby, but some don't, I wasthinking, yeah, but I think
every church and everyindividual actually does have a
mailbox nearby.
Lowell Ivey (18:22):
Well, it's even getting easier than that,
because a lot of people don'tknow that prisoners are being
granted, throughout the UnitedStates, access to digital
devices.
They're being given tablets andthat means that it's usually
through a secure network, sothey don't have free access to
the Internet and so forth.
(18:42):
But there are ways in whichthey can communicate through
text messaging, through phonecalls and even video calling.
Our ministry is really right onthe threshold of trying to take
advantage of this and movingfrom a solely snail mail
correspondence-based ministry totaking advantage of some of
these other opportunities.
(19:03):
But that makes it tremendouslyeasy, far easier than it's been
in the past.
David Nakhla (19:09):
Oh yeah, yes, Particularly when most of us
have forgotten how to write aletter and even where to put the
stamp right.
I mean, let's be honest.
And you didn't mention email.
Is there an ability to have anemail correspondence?
Lowell Ivey (19:24):
Yes, and a lot of prison systems that is becoming
correspondence.
Yes, in a lot of prison systemsthat is becoming increasingly
possible.
Sometimes there's a costassociated with it for the
inmate, Sometimes there's a costassociated for the person on
the outside.
It varies from state to state.
The cost typically is not veryhigh, so that shouldn't be too
much of a hindrance, especiallywhen we're talking about
(19:46):
diaconal ministry church.
David Nakhla (19:50):
Can you talk to us a little bit, maybe, about
Metanoia?
Share with us what is Metanoiaprison ministry and how are you
organized?
And if somebody wanted toparticipate in the ministry that
you're overseeing, how wouldthey do that?
Lowell Ivey (20:07):
Well, metanoia is a distinctively reformed prison
ministry.
It's been around since 1996 invarious forms.
It's now fully under theoversight of Mission to North
America of the PCA.
And the word Metanoia simplymeans repentance.
It's a Greek word.
It's repentance, a change ofmind, but really the idea is a
(20:30):
change of heart that leads to achange of life.
So we basically try to do threethings we seek to proclaim
Christ, we seek to makedisciples of prisoners and we
seek to equip the church to dothe same.
So our ministry focuses on thework of our regional directors
(20:51):
in various locations, preachingthe word, teaching Bible studies
, in-person Bible studies, andthen our correspondence ministry
.
This is where volunteers allthroughout the United States
we're in 48 of 50 states thatway are grading lessons and
writing letters of encouragement.
In some places we have amentoring ministry where there's
(21:13):
face-to-face in-personvisitation taking place with
Christian volunteers.
And then we also seek to be asinvolved as we can with the
reintegration of prisoners,especially working together with
local Reformed churches toreceive prisoners into their
communities in a wise and safe,but also gracious way.
David Nakhla (21:38):
Would you be willing to share a little bit
about your reintegration?
How did you find Phil HodsonPastor Phil Hodson, I know he's
a good friend.
How did that come about and howdid the reintegration happen
for you?
Lowell Ivey (21:50):
Well, the short answer is only by the grace of
God.
I mean, that's really the shortanswer.
It was in God's providence.
But my mentor in prison, whohad written to me informally it
wasn't part of any particularprison ministry that he was
involved with, but he had hisown ministry to men in jail and
I found out about it and I wroteto him and he started writing
(22:11):
back to me and wrote to me foryears, sent me books to read,
was instrumental in my growth asa Christian, as a reformed
believer as well, and when I gotout he met me in Texas.
He lived in Grand Rapids and hecame down to Texas with one of
his sons and we spent some timetogether.
(22:32):
I was still in a residentialBible college at the time and he
wanted to find a church for mebecause the Bible college that I
was in was a charismatic Biblecollege.
It was good in many respects,but he was looking for a
Reformed church to lead me into.
He happened to be DutchReformed and so as far as he was
(22:53):
concerned, you know he couldn'tfind a Dutch Reformed church.
So the OPC was the next bestthing, and so he found Phil
Hodgson and we met with Phil forlunch, and it was through that
encounter that I got to knowabout Phil and we had some
conversations and eventually,during the season, when I was
(23:14):
having trouble finding work,phil invited me out and said hey
, I've got plenty of work foryou to do.
You just come, you work for me,I'll find stuff for you to do.
And he invited me into his home.
Later on and I will say thisFor me, that was what the Lord
had for me.
That's not going to be possiblein every situation, but I'm so
(23:36):
thankful that he took such aninterest in my life and in my
spiritual growth and evenencouraged me to go on to
seminary.
David Nakhla (23:45):
Hmm, you mentioned mentor.
To go on to seminary youmentioned mentor.
If there were those who werelistening to this and said I'd
be open to being a mentor, I'dbe open to being paired up with
somebody.
Is that a part of your ministry?
Do you look for those who arewilling to mentor and you say,
great, we'll pair you up withsomebody, maybe even maybe in
(24:07):
your area, or not in your area?
Grand Rapids to Texas, that's along ways.
Is that a way for folks tostart?
Lowell Ivey (24:14):
It certainly is.
Of course, a mentoring ministrydepends on when we're talking
about mentoring.
I'm thinking of face to face,in person mentoring, because you
can do mentorings viacorrespondence as well, and in
California we're experimentingright now with what we call
tablet fellowship, which ismentoring through electronic
engagement.
But when we're talking aboutface-to-face, in-person
(24:37):
mentoring, which is obviouslythe very best, there's nothing
better than face-to-face, andyou see that even in Paul's
letters.
Paul's writing from prison, buthe's aspiring to be face to face
with those that he writes to.
And so in areas where we'veestablished a ministry presence,
(24:59):
our goal is to have a mentoringprogram where that's possible.
Sometimes the rules of variousinstitutions make it more
difficult than in certain areas.
We have one whole prison that'sa faith and character-based
prison in Georgia and we have awonderful mentoring program
(25:19):
there.
We even have a seminary inprison there at that location
and we have people going inliterally every week
face-to-face mentoringrelationships.
We can't have that everywhere.
We'd love to, but it justdepends on the particular
location, depends on whether ornot we have a ministry presence
(25:40):
established, which is the firstthing that we try to do and we
really.
Our ministry is still inexpansion phase, especially when
it comes to in-person mentoring.
We'd like to be all over theUnited States.
We are through ourcorrespondence ministry, but
we'd like to be all over theUnited States with in-person
(26:00):
mentoring as well If you have amentoring ministry in your
location, for example.
David Nakhla (26:15):
There might be conversations that we could have
about how to begin moving inthat direction.
And does it begin with aninmate reaches out to you and is
looking for that, or how doesthat even develop from the
inmate side?
Lowell Ivey (26:23):
It's a lot of times word of mouth Inmates telling
other inmates.
It can be through thechaplaincy, it can be also
(26:50):
through our in-person ministryeither preaching and teaching
ministry or some other way thatwe're already in the prisons and
they come to one of our classes, they find out about the
mentoring and they enroll inthat and get matched up with a
mentor.
A lot of times there's awaiting list for those who would
like to have a mentor and wehave more who would want a
mentor than we have mentors togive them.
So that's a significant prayerneed is that we would have more
volunteers who would be willingto go in and to do this.
David Nakhla (27:09):
So this is the Reformed Deacon Podcast.
Can you help us think about howthis is in your mind, how this
is significantly diaconal?
Lowell Ivey (27:20):
Sure Well, diaconal ministry is really putting skin
on our calling to love the lostand to love one another in the
body of Christ, and so I canthink of no other ministry that
is more diaconal than thisministry to prisoners, and
(27:44):
especially to those beingreleased to prisoners and
especially to those beingreleased.
Prisoners, those who arecurrently confined, need to know
in a tangible way that the loveof Christ is real, and
certainly they know that throughthe Word.
That's the main way that weknow the love of Christ is
(28:05):
through the ministry of the Wordand, as the Holy Spirit works
in our hearts through theministry of the word.
But we also know by theministry of his people, and
we're told in the scripturesthat they'll know the love of
Christ through the love ofChrist's people.
And so I think when we'rethinking about prison ministry,
we are certainly on the frontlines of diaconal ministry.
David Nakhla (28:28):
I think when a lot of people think about ministry
to those in prisons, there's alot of fear.
Can you maybe speak to that alittle bit.
Help us to get our arms around.
What are legitimate fears?
What are precautions that areappropriate, that make prison
ministry doable?
Lowell Ivey (28:45):
That's a great question.
I think fear is certainly ahuge part of life in prison, and
even when prisoners seek tohide that fear from other
prisoners, that fear is real.
I don't know, there may be somewho don't experience fear in
(29:06):
prison, but the vast majority ofprisoners live in a context of
fear, and so you live in acontext of fear, and that in and
of itself leads to all kinds ofthings, because people respond
out of that fear.
So prison is a very dangerousplace.
(29:27):
It's a very brutal place.
But on the other hand.
It's not dangerous to write aletter to someone.
There's no danger in that.
And then for those who actuallygo minister, in prison, the
danger is minuscule incomparison to the danger that
those in prison face.
Because, in many ways it's likebeing in a large city.
(29:51):
I lived in a large city, cityof Norfolk, and we lived in an
area that some people might havethought was a relatively
dangerous area, but I wasn'tdoing the kinds of things I
wasn't involved in with thekinds of people that usually
it's those kinds of activitiesthat put you in danger.
(30:13):
So, you're really not constantlyin any kind of real danger.
I was talking to my one of myregional directors, tim
McCracken in California, when Ivisited with him and he said you
know, I've been doing this for17 years and nobody has so much
as threatened me the whole time17 years.
(30:34):
So there's a danger, just likethere's a danger to prison
guards, but the reality is thatthe vast majority of prison
volunteers never experience evenso much as a threat, much less
being physically harmed.
There is a threshold that youhave to get past the first time
(30:55):
or two of going into prison, butthat threshold disappears very
quickly because you come away.
As I always do.
When I leave, I'm saying tomyself you know, I really want
to go home.
I do, but I want to keepministering to these guys.
That's usually how I come away.
(31:16):
I feel so blessed by being withthem and oftentimes by their
ministry to me and by seeing theway that the Lord is growing
them.
You come away not fearful, butjust feeling tremendously
blessed.
David Nakhla (31:33):
That's good.
As you're describing that, Iwas thinking about maybe
ministry into a nursing facilitytype of thing, where if you're
not accustomed to going into afacility like that, it's like
kind of maybe overwhelming, it'sjust unfamiliar, but once
you've done it a few times, youwalk in like this is where I
minister.
These are my friends, you knowthat type of thing.
(31:53):
So I don't know if that's afair comparison, but that's
where my mind went as you weredescribing that.
Lowell Ivey (31:59):
Yeah, the only time I've ever been afraid in prison
as a volunteer happened just acouple of weeks ago when I was
in California and I lost mysecurity visitors badge.
I was afraid at that point thatwe weren't going to find it.
That was that's the only timeI've ever felt any fear going
back in and we did find it,thankfully.
David Nakhla (32:20):
That's great, Lowell.
For those who are in prison,being part of the church is
important.
What, what does that look like?
Can you help us a little bit?
Lowell Ivey (32:33):
yeah, I think the thing that we need to keep in
mind is that evangelism is very,very important, but it's only a
part of what prisoners need.
There are many, many maturebelievers in prison throughout
the united states, and so weneed to think of them too.
(32:53):
There's a body of Christ inprison, as is elect in prison
who have not yet come to thesaving knowledge of Christ, and
then Christ has those in prisonwho already have come to the
knowledge of Christ and they'regrowing, and some of them are
mature believers thinking andreading on a seminary level.
(33:15):
So we need to think in areformed way about prison
ministry.
We need to be distinctivelyreformed, and I think what
distinguishes reformed prisonministry from regular prison
ministry there's a lot of prisonministry and a lot of it's very
, very good, but I think whatdistinguishes us is that we are
thinking, or we ought to bethinking, in terms of our
(33:38):
ecclesiology.
And so if someone has acredible profession of faith,
then what does that mean?
Church?
That means they ought to bebaptized, because baptism is the
admission of someone who isoutside of the covenant
community into the covenantcommunity.
David Nakhla (34:00):
Now we're thinking about baptism.
Lowell Ivey (34:03):
And if we're thinking about baptism, of
course we need to be thinkingabout church membership.
And see, a lot of churches arenot thinking about it in these
ways.
Reformed churches, I find theydo think in these terms, and one
of the ways they'll think aboutit is well, we can't just go in
and administer the Lord'sSupper to everybody, can we?
And the answer is no, weabsolutely can't do that.
(34:26):
But what if there are those whoought to be baptized?
Are we going to hold off andnot baptize them?
Are we going to leave them outof the church?
I was in prison as a Christianfor nine years without any
connection whatsoever to thevisible church, but longing for
that connection and writingletters and seeking that
(34:46):
connection, and so I think weneed to do a better job of
thinking about that importantreality.
If someone has a credibleprofession of faith, then we
need to do a better job ofthinking about that important
reality.
If someone has a credibleprofession of faith, then we
need to be thinking in terms ofchurch membership and that means
fellowship and pastoral care.
And so this is what moves usfrom doing prison ministry to
(35:07):
doing distinctively Reformedprison ministry.
I think that whole line ofthought, if we think it this way
, I believe the reformedchurches especially will get
excited and will be that muchmore easy to mobilize.
David Nakhla (35:21):
Yeah, that's great .
Yeah, oftentimes people willthink in terms of prison
ministry as evangelism and a lotof it, as you say is, but
that's the beginning as soon assomebody has proclaimed faith.
Now it's a ministry of thechurch to its members and now
they need the sacraments andthey need that ministry, the
(35:44):
diaconal ministry as well.
So that's really great.
Lowell Ivey (35:47):
Exactly right, and I was just this past weekend.
I was with a good friend who'sthe pastor of a church in Orland
Park and that church hasreceived 10 or more members into
its membership.
And even for a time had a mancalled specifically to be the
(36:08):
pastor to those men in prison.
So it's something that can bedone to those men in prison.
So it's something that can bedone.
It just takes a littlecreativity and a little desire
on the part of the elders and,yes, the deacons too, and, of
course, the congregation as well.
David Nakhla (36:23):
So, lowell, if people have questions about
ministering to those in prison,are you able to be a resource
for those who may have follow-upquestions?
Lowell Ivey (36:33):
I'd be happy to.
I think the easiest way to geta hold of me would be to go on
our website,metanoiaprisonministriesorg.
My contact information is thereand Metanoia is M-E-T-A-N-O-I-A
.
David Nakhla (36:49):
Lowell, your statements have really
stimulated thinking on this.
We have deacons who arelistening that like to begin
what are maybe some first threebaby steps to begin moving in
the direction of becoming aparticipant in this ministry to
those who are in prison.
Lowell Ivey (37:09):
Well, I think the first step, as it should be, is
prayer.
First and most important step.
We can't do anything apart fromthe grace that the Lord
communicates to us through hisHoly Spirit, and so this is
(37:30):
where the deacons, I would think, could be instrumental.
The diaconate is involved in aword and deed ministry and I
know you've talked a lot aboutthat and so the deacons can
exercise leadership.
What I mean by that is, in somesense, it's the thought that
(37:51):
this is a direction that we'dlike to go in, and committing to
that.
You know, somebody needs toreally begin to take some sort
of action in a particulardirection.
That's what leadership is, andso you can maybe pinpoint a
possible ministry location, ajail or a prison.
(38:12):
This is where we want to start,and then you have to make
contact with whoever you need tomake contact with.
It might be the chaplain orsomeone in charge of programming
or volunteer services.
You need to determine what'spossible, and so you ask what's
already happening there?
What other area churches andorganizations are already
(38:33):
involved?
Is it possible for us to doworship services, just like we
do with disaster response?
What's the first thing we wantto do?
We want to establish reformedworship, if at all possible in
that prison.
Are there Bible studieshappening, is there mentoring?
And so you commit to someparticular activity and then
(38:54):
here's the key you staycommitted.
That's absolutely vital becauseso much prison ministry is
drive-by ministry and there aretimes where a chaplain is going
to want to see how committed achurch is before even allowing
them to take any significantsteps in the direction of
ministering to that population.
(39:15):
So you need leadership, youneed someone who's wanting to
take things in a particulardirection.
You need to identify where togo and who to talk to.
David Nakhla (39:25):
Good, I was thinking as you're talking about
that.
Step two leading.
It could be Deacon.
It could be as simple as get iton the docket as a topic for
your whole diaconate to discussat your next meeting, and then
you get the wisdom and blessingof the other deacons to begin
some of these next steps.
That's really great.
So, lowell, this has been asuper helpful conversation.
(39:48):
So thankful for you for yourfriendship, for your example, so
thankful for you for yourfriendship, for your example.
And as we move towards closehere, I wonder those listening
to this maybe they're on theirway home, they're going to sit
around the dinner table tonight.
What are maybe one, two, threeways that we can be praying for,
those, even brothers andsisters, who are in prison, who
(40:11):
can be praying for even tonight?
Lowell Ivey (40:13):
Well, thank you for that, David.
We have hundreds of studentsaround the country who are in
prison, and I would ask you topray for them.
Pray for our students, praythat the Lord would keep them
from discouragement and fromloneliness and remind them that
even when they are totally alone, they are not alone if they are
(40:34):
in Christ, because Christ isthere with them.
And for me that was a hugeencouragement.
Just to remind myself I am notalone.
The Lord is with me, and isn'tthat what he says to us all
throughout the scriptures?
I am with you to be a God toyou, and I will never leave you
nor forsake you.
So, just that reminder to pray,especially about discouragement
(40:58):
and loneliness.
Depression is very real.
Pray for the work of ourregional directors and for our
volunteers.
They're doing just a wonderfulwork in various parts of the
country.
Again, hundreds of volunteers,but not enough volunteers to
meet the need, and so we needmore volunteers and would ask
you to pray that God would raiseup volunteers.
(41:18):
Pray that God would raise upmen who are committed to this as
a mission field.
This is the forgotten missionfield, and we need men, just
like we need men to go to China,we need men to go into the
prisons, and they need to bewell-trained, equipped men, and
(41:41):
so pray for that.
And then you know, as familiesare sitting around together at
dinner, read together the manypassages that refer to prisoners
or the stories of those whohave been in prison for their
faith.
It referred to prisoners or thestories of those who have been
in prison for their faith, andremind your children that we are
all worthy of far worse thanprison, and that the Lord has
(42:01):
his elect, even in prison cells.
David Nakhla (42:04):
Great.
Well, I don't typically endthis way, but I'd like to ask
you to lead us in prayer, Lowell, as you are best equipped to
pray thoughtfully for thesethings.
Would you mind doing that?
Lowell Ivey (42:17):
I'd be glad to let's pray Our gracious God and
Father.
We lift our hearts up to youand we give you thanks, lord,
that you have delivered us bythe salvation that is in Jesus
Christ, that you have granted tous redemption in him, freedom
(42:38):
from the guilt of our sin,freedom from the dominion of sin
over us and freedom to speaknow of you and all that you have
done for us.
We thank you that the same powerthat raised up Jesus from the
dead is at work in us and isalso at work in many who are
(42:59):
currently confined by walls andwire but who are free in Christ.
Them up, that you wouldstrengthen them, that you would
use even many who might hearthis program and become
encouraged in thinking aboutthese things, especially deacons
(43:22):
.
Lord, we pray that you wouldraise up an army of deacons who
would consider the needs ofthose in prison, who would be
filled with the compassion ofJesus Christ and who would long
to stir up your people inchurches throughout this country
(43:43):
to seek to meet that needwherever they are.
We pray, lord, that you wouldbuild up your church even in
prison.
We pray.
Lord, that you would build upyour church even in prison, and
that you would use us in waysthat we have not even yet
thought of or considered foryour glory.
We pray these things in Jesus'name, Amen.
David Nakhla (44:08):
Well, thank you, Lowell, for joining us and for
leading us in prayer.
We rejoice in what the Lord hasdone in and is even now doing
through you prayer rejoice inwhat the Lord has done in and is
even now doing through you, andI pray that the Lord uses this
conversation to open up thisimportant area of ministry in
our churches.
Thank you, brother.
Lowell Ivey (44:20):
Thank you, david, it's been a blessing.
David Nakhla (44:22):
Thanks for joining us.
Go to our websitethereformedeaconorg.
There you will find all ourepisodes, program notes and
other helpful resources, andplease make plans to join us
again for another episode of theReformed Deacon Podcast.
I was in prison as a Christian for nine years
without any connectionwhatsoever to the visible church
, but longing for thatconnection and writing letters
and seeking that connection, andso I think we need to do a
better job of thinking aboutthat important reality.
David Nakhla (00:18):
Welcome to the Reformed Deacon, a casual
conversation with topicsspecifically designed to help
local Reformed Deacons.
There are nearly a thousandDeacons in the OPC alone, so
let's take this opportunity tolearn from and encourage one
another.
We're so glad you could join us.
Let's jump into our nextepisode.
My name is David Nakhla.
(00:39):
I serve as the Administratorfor the OPC's Committee on
Diacon Ministries and today, onthe Reformed Deacon Podcast,
I'll be talking with OPCMinister Lowell.
Ivey Lowell has a unique storyto share in that he came to know
Christ while serving 15 yearsin prison for armed robbery, 10
of those years in solitaryconfinement.
(01:00):
He has described it as the bestthing that could have happened
to him.
Solitary confinement he hasdescribed it as the best thing
that could have happened to him.
After his release in 2009, hewas warmly welcomed into the
fellowship of a small OPcongregation in Longview, texas.
There he met his wife, may.
He went on to attend GreenvillePresbyterian Theological
Seminary with the dream ofserving in full-time prison
(01:21):
ministry as an ordained minister.
After graduating from seminaryin 2015, he served a year-long
internship and felt the Lord wascalling him into pastoral
ministry.
He went on to serve as pastorof Reformation OPC in Virginia
Beach for over seven years andis now the director of Metanoia
Prison Ministries, where heworks to engage, educate and
(01:44):
equip the church for thediscipleship, mentoring and
reintegration of prisoners.
Lowell and his wife have fivechildren.
So, lowell, thank you fortaking the time to be here,
brother.
Lowell Ivey (01:56):
Thank you, David.
It's a great privilege to bewith you.
David Nakhla (01:58):
Lowell.
In Matthew 25, when Christ isseparating the sheep and goats
on judgment day, he identifiesthe sheep as those who
ministered mercy to him byministering mercy to his
brothers.
Among those various ministriesof mercy listed is the one I was
in prison and you came to me,lowell.
(02:21):
You were that one in prison andyou're now outside of prison
overseeing that ministry tothose behind bars.
I'm hoping to learn from youwhat diaconal ministry looks
like to those behind bars, butbefore we get there, can we
begin by you telling us a bitabout yourself from solitary
confinement to minister of thegospel?
Lowell Ivey (02:40):
Well, as you mentioned, I was incarcerated at
the age of 19 for the crime ofaggravated robbery with a deadly
weapon.
I was 20 when I was sentencedfor that crime and at 20 years
old, hearing the sentence comedown, it felt like my life was
over.
While I was in prison, I joineda white supremacist prison gang
(03:02):
and spent 10 years in solitaryconfinement for my gang
affiliation, beginning in 1997when I was put into solitary.
I didn't have a window in mycell.
I could go out for an hour aday for recreation with a few
other prisoners, but I couldn'tsee grass, I couldn't see trees,
(03:24):
I couldn't see the sun setting.
All I could see was the wall ofanother part of the prison for
those 10 years.
But the Lord used that timepowerfully in my life and in
2000, I was set free in Christwhile listening to a radio
program called here Comes theLight.
The Lord used that radioprogram to shine the light of
(03:45):
the gospel into my heart, tohelp me to see my sin, my need
for Christ, and I cried out tohim asking to be made a new
creature in Christ.
I began listening to RC Sproulon the radio, the Renewing your
Mind broadcast, and through himbegan to get a hold of some
(04:05):
reformed books and was readingthose reading the scriptures,
learning to pray, learning howto understand and to interpret
God's word.
I was finally put back intogeneral population in 2007 after
going through a program calledthe grad program, the gang
Renunciation and Disassociationprogram, and then I was able to
(04:29):
take college classes with thehope of going to seminary one
day and serving as an ordainedminister in full-time reformed
prison ministry.
I was already seeing the needfor distinctively reformed
prison ministry before I got out.
I was released on parole in2009 from the Huntsville unit in
(04:49):
Huntsville, Texas, and thenmade my way to Tyler, Texas,
where I was in a non-ReformedBible program for those being
released, but eventually wasable to meet an OPC pastor in
Longview, Texas.
His name was Phil Hodson and wasbrought into his home, lived
(05:10):
with him, his wife and his twochildren, and got to see things
like family worship for thefirst time.
I met my wife there, at Christthe King OPC in Longview in 2010
, and I also began seminary thatsame year and then graduated.
We were married in 2011, and Igraduated from seminary in 2015,
(05:31):
and then did a year-longinternship at Covenant Community
OPC in Taylor, south Carolina.
By that time I was alreadybeginning to think that the Lord
might be calling me intopastoral ministry rather than an
exclusive focus on prisonministry, that maybe one aspect
of my work would be prisonministry as a pastor and even in
(05:54):
presbytery settings.
I was thinking I might be ableto speak about prison-related
issues in the presbytery setting.
And now, as I look back on it,as I've been called to this new
ministry with Metanoia PrisonMinistries, I see how the Lord
was preparing me through my timein prison, but also my time
serving as a pastor.
I really see that as a valuableexperience for what I'm doing
(06:18):
now.
David Nakhla (06:20):
You told me a story about, I think, you had
been stabbed or cut in theprison and there was a nurse who
was patching you up and shenoticed the tattoos on your arms
.
Would you be willing to sharethat story?
Lowell Ivey (06:34):
Yeah, I appreciate you mentioning that my cellmate
had gotten into trouble withanother inmate.
They were doing stuff theyshouldn't be doing and he was
actually on parole and he wasout arguing with the guy on the
called it the run.
It was just the balcony outsideof our second floor prison
cells and he came in.
(06:55):
He thought things were over,but I had a feeling things
weren't over and I was lookingout the door and the guy that he
was arguing with came at uswith a blade.
I looked down and saw rightaway that he had a blade, so I
slammed the door shut, put myarm through it so he couldn't
open the door.
It was bars on the prison doorand he tried to cut me.
(07:19):
I was able to get just farenough out of the way that he
didn't cut my throat, but he wasable to cut me on my arms and
then he went back to his celland cut himself to make it look
like we had been fighting ratherthan him just attacking me.
I was taken to the infirmaryafter everything got under
control and a black nurse wastreating me.
(07:41):
Nurse was treating me and I wasreally feeling pretty bad about
my tattoos, because one of mytattoos is a Ku Klux Klansman,
and she was having to look atthat as she was treating me, and
I said you know, that's not whoI am anymore.
Just want you to know that.
And she said, oh really, Well,who are you?
And I said, well, I'm abeliever in the Lord Jesus
(08:03):
Christ.
And she said, well, so am I.
And then she said, don't everget your tattoos removed.
That's part of your testimony.
I didn't take her counsel onthat.
I did start trying to get themremoved.
They're a lot more faded nowthan they were then, but it was
just such a blessing for me tosee how she responded in such a
(08:23):
way, despite what she was seeing, what she was being confronted
with with those tattoos.
David Nakhla (08:30):
Very powerful story.
So, lowell, I've heard I don'tremember where I heard it, but
they say one of the biggestfears in life is the fear of
being forgotten.
How important do you think isvisitation for prisoners,
particularly for brothers andsisters in Christ who are behind
bars, and what does that looklike?
Lowell Ivey (08:51):
That's a great question.
Maybe I could touch on that byasking you imagine living 24
hours a day with a few hundredconvicted criminals all around.
Those are your neighbors.
You're constantly with peoplewho are scrutinizing your every
move.
You're constantly aware of yourneed to measure up to their
(09:24):
expectations of you.
In a very brutal andunforgiving prison culture, you
cannot show even the slightestindication of fear or weakness
or vulnerability, or you will betaken advantage of.
Every other human being aroundyou reinforces those unwritten
rules of prison life.
And then now, imagining allthat, imagine how desperate you
(09:46):
would be for just some glimpseof warmth, some human affection,
some indication of care orconcern, some genuine expression
of love and compassion.
These are all the very thingsthat the prison culture
dismisses as weak.
These are all the very thingsthat the prison culture
dismisses as weak, it's allweakness, and now just to bring
(10:18):
that a little more into focus.
Visits from family members inprison are really the very high
points of life.
That and getting a piece ofmail are really just the two
highest points of life that canbe imagined.
And if you're there waiting formail to go around at mail call,
the officer goes around cell bycell and he's coming around and
then he walks on by, Get apiece of mail that day or
(10:43):
visitation is being called andyou don't get called out.
I never received a visit thewhole time I was in prison,
because the bridges with familyhad been burned and they lived
pretty far away too.
So a visit from a Christian oreven just a letter and I did
have those who wrote letters tome, or even just a letter.
(11:05):
And I did have those who wroteletters to me.
I had one mentor who wrote mefor years, a pastor on the
outside who was instrumental inmy Christian growth and
development.
I'm Presbyterian today becauseof his ministry to me.
(11:25):
So a visit from a fellowbeliever or a letter it has the
effect of reminding you thatyou're not just a number, and I
was number 702233.
I'll never forget that number.
That's who I was.
If you looked at my ID card, atone point it said inmate.
And then I guess that wasn'tenough and so the Texas prison
system, in red letters, putoffender on everybody's ID cards
(11:51):
, and so it was a constantreminder that you which in a
sense is not a bad thing there'sthis constant reminder.
If I'm thinking about it rightly, I've offended God, offended
the state of Texas, and I'veoffended the victims of my crime
, but as a Christian, you'restill looking at that, the big
(12:11):
red letters and it says offender, and you struggle at times with
the guilt that you feel and theneed for some affirmation from
another believer that your lifematters, that you have intrinsic
value because you're made inthe image of God, and then for a
believer I would say, a visitor a letter is a tangible
(12:32):
reminder that you're actuallypart of the body of Christ,
you're actually welcomed, eventhough you're in prison, as
belonging to Jesus Christ.
That's great as belonging toJesus.
David Nakhla (12:44):
Christ.
That's great.
Can you talk about how youheard this radio message?
How did you get in touch withChristians' ministry?
What did that path look likefor you as an inmate?
Lowell Ivey (12:58):
There were various ways that you could get in touch
with people.
For example, if you knewanother Christian who knew, some
people on the outside could beput in touch that way.
There were ministries that madethemselves available.
For example, the ministry thatI'm director of now, metanoia
Prison Ministries, has acorrespondence program where
volunteers from the outside cangrade lessons and write letters
(13:22):
of encouragement.
There are many ministries likethat, especially Christian
ministries, and so you can findout about them in various ways.
Also, there were people whowould come in and who would know
about various ministries andwould connect you that way.
David Nakhla (13:38):
If you had the ability to suddenly make every
church interested in open toministry to inmates in prisons,
every deacon?
If you could just snap yourfingers, what would that look
like?
Lowell Ivey (13:52):
Well, thank you for that.
The reality is is that notevery church is near a prison,
but every church has anincarcerated population nearby.
I just looked at the statisticsthere are 1.3 million people
who are incarcerated in variousforms of incarceration.
(14:17):
Many of those are in countyjails awaiting their sentencing
and those county jails are atthe local level.
And those county jails are atthe local level.
So local churches usually willhave some incarcerated
(14:38):
population nearby, either jails,juvenile detention facilities
or what have you countydetention centers.
Who said that?
He mentioned outreach toneighbors around the church, to
folks in the church, and he wastold that well, we really don't
have any neighbors around thechurch.
You know, some churches are notreally in residential
neighborhoods and so forth.
(14:59):
So he pointed to a toweringbuilding that was able to be
seen by members of the church asthey went to the church and it
was the jail.
And he said well, you actuallydo have a lot of neighbors.
They're just incarceratedneighbors and they're a little
harder to get to know and tomeet.
(15:21):
But they're there and thepastor of his church began
praying regularly for theirincarcerated neighbors.
He became more cognizant of itthrough the ministry of this man
and then the members becameincreasingly aware and became
more and more excited aboutministering to people in that
(15:45):
jail nearby.
I would say that diaconalministry is not about doing
everything in the church thatnobody else is doing.
You drilled that into my head,david.
Diaconal ministry is really nottrying to do it all.
You'll wear your deacons outthat way, but diaconal ministry
(16:05):
is about organizing andencouraging the church to be the
body of Christ, and so you'vealready alluded to Matthew 25.
And I think the interestingthing about the judgment passage
in Matthew 25 is number one thesaints really were just going
about the business of beingsaints, they weren't thinking
too much about it.
(16:25):
But number two, and theyweren't really looking for any
earthly reward at all.
But the second thing is thatthe work that they were doing in
ministering to vulnerablepopulations of people is
regarded as ministry to JesusChrist himself.
I think that's a remarkablething, and so we can think of
(16:48):
prison ministry as not onlyservice to prisoners, but
service to prisoners in the nameof and for the sake of Jesus
Christ.
I would just say you startsmall.
You make sure the needs of thosein prison are brought up in
prayer meetings.
You reach out to those directlyimpacted in your congregation
(17:12):
by incarceration or those withfamily members in prison.
You find out what other groupsare doing.
You know what other groups aredoing jail and prison ministry
around you in your area Contactlocal homeless shelters, rescue
missions.
They usually have good leads onpeople who are getting out or
have just gotten out.
And you partner with ministriesministries like the ministry
(17:35):
that I serve, metanoia PrisonMinistries especially if you
don't have a prison nearby,because it is true there are
going to be a lot of churchesthat don't have a prison nearby,
but that doesn't mean there'snothing that you can do in
ministry to prisoners.
There are many ways to doprison ministry, even right from
(17:56):
our own home, you know.
You can think of it as theremote work version of prison
ministry.
Writing letters ofencouragement.
David Nakhla (18:04):
Right, and when you were saying a lot of
churches have a you know somesort of incarcerated population
nearby, but some don't, I wasthinking, yeah, but I think
every church and everyindividual actually does have a
mailbox nearby.
Lowell Ivey (18:22):
Well, it's even getting easier than that,
because a lot of people don'tknow that prisoners are being
granted, throughout the UnitedStates, access to digital
devices.
They're being given tablets andthat means that it's usually
through a secure network, sothey don't have free access to
the Internet and so forth.
(18:42):
But there are ways in whichthey can communicate through
text messaging, through phonecalls and even video calling.
Our ministry is really right onthe threshold of trying to take
advantage of this and movingfrom a solely snail mail
correspondence-based ministry totaking advantage of some of
these other opportunities.
(19:03):
But that makes it tremendouslyeasy, far easier than it's been
in the past.
David Nakhla (19:09):
Oh yeah, yes, Particularly when most of us
have forgotten how to write aletter and even where to put the
stamp right.
I mean, let's be honest.
And you didn't mention email.
Is there an ability to have anemail correspondence?
Lowell Ivey (19:24):
Yes, and a lot of prison systems that is becoming
correspondence.
Yes, in a lot of prison systemsthat is becoming increasingly
possible.
Sometimes there's a costassociated with it for the
inmate, Sometimes there's a costassociated for the person on
the outside.
It varies from state to state.
The cost typically is not veryhigh, so that shouldn't be too
much of a hindrance, especiallywhen we're talking about
(19:46):
diaconal ministry church.
David Nakhla (19:50):
Can you talk to us a little bit, maybe, about
Metanoia?
Share with us what is Metanoiaprison ministry and how are you
organized?
And if somebody wanted toparticipate in the ministry that
you're overseeing, how wouldthey do that?
Lowell Ivey (20:07):
Well, metanoia is a distinctively reformed prison
ministry.
It's been around since 1996 invarious forms.
It's now fully under theoversight of Mission to North
America of the PCA.
And the word Metanoia simplymeans repentance.
It's a Greek word.
It's repentance, a change ofmind, but really the idea is a
(20:30):
change of heart that leads to achange of life.
So we basically try to do threethings we seek to proclaim
Christ, we seek to makedisciples of prisoners and we
seek to equip the church to dothe same.
So our ministry focuses on thework of our regional directors
(20:51):
in various locations, preachingthe word, teaching Bible studies
, in-person Bible studies, andthen our correspondence ministry
.
This is where volunteers allthroughout the United States
we're in 48 of 50 states thatway are grading lessons and
writing letters of encouragement.
In some places we have amentoring ministry where there's
(21:13):
face-to-face in-personvisitation taking place with
Christian volunteers.
And then we also seek to be asinvolved as we can with the
reintegration of prisoners,especially working together with
local Reformed churches toreceive prisoners into their
communities in a wise and safe,but also gracious way.
David Nakhla (21:38):
Would you be willing to share a little bit
about your reintegration?
How did you find Phil HodsonPastor Phil Hodson, I know he's
a good friend.
How did that come about and howdid the reintegration happen
for you?
Lowell Ivey (21:50):
Well, the short answer is only by the grace of
God.
I mean, that's really the shortanswer.
It was in God's providence.
But my mentor in prison, whohad written to me informally it
wasn't part of any particularprison ministry that he was
involved with, but he had hisown ministry to men in jail and
I found out about it and I wroteto him and he started writing
(22:11):
back to me and wrote to me foryears, sent me books to read,
was instrumental in my growth asa Christian, as a reformed
believer as well, and when I gotout he met me in Texas.
He lived in Grand Rapids and hecame down to Texas with one of
his sons and we spent some timetogether.
(22:32):
I was still in a residentialBible college at the time and he
wanted to find a church for mebecause the Bible college that I
was in was a charismatic Biblecollege.
It was good in many respects,but he was looking for a
Reformed church to lead me into.
He happened to be DutchReformed and so as far as he was
(22:53):
concerned, you know he couldn'tfind a Dutch Reformed church.
So the OPC was the next bestthing, and so he found Phil
Hodgson and we met with Phil forlunch, and it was through that
encounter that I got to knowabout Phil and we had some
conversations and eventually,during the season, when I was
(23:14):
having trouble finding work,phil invited me out and said hey
, I've got plenty of work foryou to do.
You just come, you work for me,I'll find stuff for you to do.
And he invited me into his home.
Later on and I will say thisFor me, that was what the Lord
had for me.
That's not going to be possiblein every situation, but I'm so
(23:36):
thankful that he took such aninterest in my life and in my
spiritual growth and evenencouraged me to go on to
seminary.
David Nakhla (23:45):
Hmm, you mentioned mentor.
To go on to seminary youmentioned mentor.
If there were those who werelistening to this and said I'd
be open to being a mentor, I'dbe open to being paired up with
somebody.
Is that a part of your ministry?
Do you look for those who arewilling to mentor and you say,
great, we'll pair you up withsomebody, maybe even maybe in
(24:07):
your area, or not in your area?
Grand Rapids to Texas, that's along ways.
Is that a way for folks tostart?
Lowell Ivey (24:14):
It certainly is.
Of course, a mentoring ministrydepends on when we're talking
about mentoring.
I'm thinking of face to face,in person mentoring, because you
can do mentorings viacorrespondence as well, and in
California we're experimentingright now with what we call
tablet fellowship, which ismentoring through electronic
engagement.
But when we're talking aboutface-to-face, in-person
(24:37):
mentoring, which is obviouslythe very best, there's nothing
better than face-to-face, andyou see that even in Paul's
letters.
Paul's writing from prison, buthe's aspiring to be face to face
with those that he writes to.
And so in areas where we'veestablished a ministry presence,
(24:59):
our goal is to have a mentoringprogram where that's possible.
Sometimes the rules of variousinstitutions make it more
difficult than in certain areas.
We have one whole prison that'sa faith and character-based
prison in Georgia and we have awonderful mentoring program
(25:19):
there.
We even have a seminary inprison there at that location
and we have people going inliterally every week
face-to-face mentoringrelationships.
We can't have that everywhere.
We'd love to, but it justdepends on the particular
location, depends on whether ornot we have a ministry presence
(25:40):
established, which is the firstthing that we try to do and we
really.
Our ministry is still inexpansion phase, especially when
it comes to in-person mentoring.
We'd like to be all over theUnited States.
We are through ourcorrespondence ministry, but
we'd like to be all over theUnited States with in-person
(26:00):
mentoring as well If you have amentoring ministry in your
location, for example.
David Nakhla (26:15):
There might be conversations that we could have
about how to begin moving inthat direction.
And does it begin with aninmate reaches out to you and is
looking for that, or how doesthat even develop from the
inmate side?
Lowell Ivey (26:23):
It's a lot of times word of mouth Inmates telling
other inmates.
It can be through thechaplaincy, it can be also
(26:50):
through our in-person ministryeither preaching and teaching
ministry or some other way thatwe're already in the prisons and
they come to one of our classes, they find out about the
mentoring and they enroll inthat and get matched up with a
mentor.
A lot of times there's awaiting list for those who would
like to have a mentor and wehave more who would want a
mentor than we have mentors togive them.
So that's a significant prayerneed is that we would have more
volunteers who would be willingto go in and to do this.
David Nakhla (27:09):
So this is the Reformed Deacon Podcast.
Can you help us think about howthis is in your mind, how this
is significantly diaconal?
Lowell Ivey (27:20):
Sure Well, diaconal ministry is really putting skin
on our calling to love the lostand to love one another in the
body of Christ, and so I canthink of no other ministry that
is more diaconal than thisministry to prisoners, and
(27:44):
especially to those beingreleased to prisoners and
especially to those beingreleased.
Prisoners, those who arecurrently confined, need to know
in a tangible way that the loveof Christ is real, and
certainly they know that throughthe Word.
That's the main way that weknow the love of Christ is
(28:05):
through the ministry of the Wordand, as the Holy Spirit works
in our hearts through theministry of the word.
But we also know by theministry of his people, and
we're told in the scripturesthat they'll know the love of
Christ through the love ofChrist's people.
And so I think when we'rethinking about prison ministry,
we are certainly on the frontlines of diaconal ministry.
David Nakhla (28:28):
I think when a lot of people think about ministry
to those in prisons, there's alot of fear.
Can you maybe speak to that alittle bit.
Help us to get our arms around.
What are legitimate fears?
What are precautions that areappropriate, that make prison
ministry doable?
Lowell Ivey (28:45):
That's a great question.
I think fear is certainly ahuge part of life in prison, and
even when prisoners seek tohide that fear from other
prisoners, that fear is real.
I don't know, there may be somewho don't experience fear in
(29:06):
prison, but the vast majority ofprisoners live in a context of
fear, and so you live in acontext of fear, and that in and
of itself leads to all kinds ofthings, because people respond
out of that fear.
So prison is a very dangerousplace.
(29:27):
It's a very brutal place.
But on the other hand.
It's not dangerous to write aletter to someone.
There's no danger in that.
And then for those who actuallygo minister, in prison, the
danger is minuscule incomparison to the danger that
those in prison face.
Because, in many ways it's likebeing in a large city.
(29:51):
I lived in a large city, cityof Norfolk, and we lived in an
area that some people might havethought was a relatively
dangerous area, but I wasn'tdoing the kinds of things I
wasn't involved in with thekinds of people that usually
it's those kinds of activitiesthat put you in danger.
(30:13):
So, you're really not constantlyin any kind of real danger.
I was talking to my one of myregional directors, tim
McCracken in California, when Ivisited with him and he said you
know, I've been doing this for17 years and nobody has so much
as threatened me the whole time17 years.
(30:34):
So there's a danger, just likethere's a danger to prison
guards, but the reality is thatthe vast majority of prison
volunteers never experience evenso much as a threat, much less
being physically harmed.
There is a threshold that youhave to get past the first time
(30:55):
or two of going into prison, butthat threshold disappears very
quickly because you come away.
As I always do.
When I leave, I'm saying tomyself you know, I really want
to go home.
I do, but I want to keepministering to these guys.
That's usually how I come away.
(31:16):
I feel so blessed by being withthem and oftentimes by their
ministry to me and by seeing theway that the Lord is growing
them.
You come away not fearful, butjust feeling tremendously
blessed.
David Nakhla (31:33):
That's good.
As you're describing that, Iwas thinking about maybe
ministry into a nursing facilitytype of thing, where if you're
not accustomed to going into afacility like that, it's like
kind of maybe overwhelming, it'sjust unfamiliar, but once
you've done it a few times, youwalk in like this is where I
minister.
These are my friends, you knowthat type of thing.
(31:53):
So I don't know if that's afair comparison, but that's
where my mind went as you weredescribing that.
Lowell Ivey (31:59):
Yeah, the only time I've ever been afraid in prison
as a volunteer happened just acouple of weeks ago when I was
in California and I lost mysecurity visitors badge.
I was afraid at that point thatwe weren't going to find it.
That was that's the only timeI've ever felt any fear going
back in and we did find it,thankfully.
David Nakhla (32:20):
That's great, Lowell.
For those who are in prison,being part of the church is
important.
What, what does that look like?
Can you help us a little bit?
Lowell Ivey (32:33):
yeah, I think the thing that we need to keep in
mind is that evangelism is very,very important, but it's only a
part of what prisoners need.
There are many, many maturebelievers in prison throughout
the united states, and so weneed to think of them too.
(32:53):
There's a body of Christ inprison, as is elect in prison
who have not yet come to thesaving knowledge of Christ, and
then Christ has those in prisonwho already have come to the
knowledge of Christ and they'regrowing, and some of them are
mature believers thinking andreading on a seminary level.
(33:15):
So we need to think in areformed way about prison
ministry.
We need to be distinctivelyreformed, and I think what
distinguishes reformed prisonministry from regular prison
ministry there's a lot of prisonministry and a lot of it's very
, very good, but I think whatdistinguishes us is that we are
thinking, or we ought to bethinking, in terms of our
(33:38):
ecclesiology.
And so if someone has acredible profession of faith,
then what does that mean?
Church?
That means they ought to bebaptized, because baptism is the
admission of someone who isoutside of the covenant
community into the covenantcommunity.
David Nakhla (34:00):
Now we're thinking about baptism.
Lowell Ivey (34:03):
And if we're thinking about baptism, of
course we need to be thinkingabout church membership.
And see, a lot of churches arenot thinking about it in these
ways.
Reformed churches, I find theydo think in these terms, and one
of the ways they'll think aboutit is well, we can't just go in
and administer the Lord'sSupper to everybody, can we?
And the answer is no, weabsolutely can't do that.
(34:26):
But what if there are those whoought to be baptized?
Are we going to hold off andnot baptize them?
Are we going to leave them outof the church?
I was in prison as a Christianfor nine years without any
connection whatsoever to thevisible church, but longing for
that connection and writingletters and seeking that
(34:46):
connection, and so I think weneed to do a better job of
thinking about that importantreality.
If someone has a credibleprofession of faith, then we
need to do a better job ofthinking about that important
reality.
If someone has a credibleprofession of faith, then we
need to be thinking in terms ofchurch membership and that means
fellowship and pastoral care.
And so this is what moves usfrom doing prison ministry to
(35:07):
doing distinctively Reformedprison ministry.
I think that whole line ofthought, if we think it this way
, I believe the reformedchurches especially will get
excited and will be that muchmore easy to mobilize.
David Nakhla (35:21):
Yeah, that's great .
Yeah, oftentimes people willthink in terms of prison
ministry as evangelism and a lotof it, as you say is, but
that's the beginning as soon assomebody has proclaimed faith.
Now it's a ministry of thechurch to its members and now
they need the sacraments andthey need that ministry, the
(35:44):
diaconal ministry as well.
So that's really great.
Lowell Ivey (35:47):
Exactly right, and I was just this past weekend.
I was with a good friend who'sthe pastor of a church in Orland
Park and that church hasreceived 10 or more members into
its membership.
And even for a time had a mancalled specifically to be the
(36:08):
pastor to those men in prison.
So it's something that can bedone to those men in prison.
So it's something that can bedone.
It just takes a littlecreativity and a little desire
on the part of the elders and,yes, the deacons too, and, of
course, the congregation as well.
David Nakhla (36:23):
So, lowell, if people have questions about
ministering to those in prison,are you able to be a resource
for those who may have follow-upquestions?
Lowell Ivey (36:33):
I'd be happy to.
I think the easiest way to geta hold of me would be to go on
our website,metanoiaprisonministriesorg.
My contact information is thereand Metanoia is M-E-T-A-N-O-I-A
.
David Nakhla (36:49):
Lowell, your statements have really
stimulated thinking on this.
We have deacons who arelistening that like to begin
what are maybe some first threebaby steps to begin moving in
the direction of becoming aparticipant in this ministry to
those who are in prison.
Lowell Ivey (37:09):
Well, I think the first step, as it should be, is
prayer.
First and most important step.
We can't do anything apart fromthe grace that the Lord
communicates to us through hisHoly Spirit, and so this is
(37:30):
where the deacons, I would think, could be instrumental.
The diaconate is involved in aword and deed ministry and I
know you've talked a lot aboutthat and so the deacons can
exercise leadership.
What I mean by that is, in somesense, it's the thought that
(37:51):
this is a direction that we'dlike to go in, and committing to
that.
You know, somebody needs toreally begin to take some sort
of action in a particulardirection.
That's what leadership is, andso you can maybe pinpoint a
possible ministry location, ajail or a prison.
(38:12):
This is where we want to start,and then you have to make
contact with whoever you need tomake contact with.
It might be the chaplain orsomeone in charge of programming
or volunteer services.
You need to determine what'spossible, and so you ask what's
already happening there?
What other area churches andorganizations are already
(38:33):
involved?
Is it possible for us to doworship services, just like we
do with disaster response?
What's the first thing we wantto do?
We want to establish reformedworship, if at all possible in
that prison.
Are there Bible studieshappening, is there mentoring?
And so you commit to someparticular activity and then
(38:54):
here's the key you staycommitted.
That's absolutely vital becauseso much prison ministry is
drive-by ministry and there aretimes where a chaplain is going
to want to see how committed achurch is before even allowing
them to take any significantsteps in the direction of
ministering to that population.
(39:15):
So you need leadership, youneed someone who's wanting to
take things in a particulardirection.
You need to identify where togo and who to talk to.
David Nakhla (39:25):
Good, I was thinking as you're talking about
that.
Step two leading.
It could be Deacon.
It could be as simple as get iton the docket as a topic for
your whole diaconate to discussat your next meeting, and then
you get the wisdom and blessingof the other deacons to begin
some of these next steps.
That's really great.
So, lowell, this has been asuper helpful conversation.
(39:48):
So thankful for you for yourfriendship, for your example, so
thankful for you for yourfriendship, for your example.
And as we move towards closehere, I wonder those listening
to this maybe they're on theirway home, they're going to sit
around the dinner table tonight.
What are maybe one, two, threeways that we can be praying for,
those, even brothers andsisters, who are in prison, who
(40:11):
can be praying for even tonight?
Lowell Ivey (40:13):
Well, thank you for that, David.
We have hundreds of studentsaround the country who are in
prison, and I would ask you topray for them.
Pray for our students, praythat the Lord would keep them
from discouragement and fromloneliness and remind them that
even when they are totally alone, they are not alone if they are
(40:34):
in Christ, because Christ isthere with them.
And for me that was a hugeencouragement.
Just to remind myself I am notalone.
The Lord is with me, and isn'tthat what he says to us all
throughout the scriptures?
I am with you to be a God toyou, and I will never leave you
nor forsake you.
So, just that reminder to pray,especially about discouragement
(40:58):
and loneliness.
Depression is very real.
Pray for the work of ourregional directors and for our
volunteers.
They're doing just a wonderfulwork in various parts of the
country.
Again, hundreds of volunteers,but not enough volunteers to
meet the need, and so we needmore volunteers and would ask
you to pray that God would raiseup volunteers.
(41:18):
Pray that God would raise upmen who are committed to this as
a mission field.
This is the forgotten missionfield, and we need men, just
like we need men to go to China,we need men to go into the
prisons, and they need to bewell-trained, equipped men, and
(41:41):
so pray for that.
And then you know, as familiesare sitting around together at
dinner, read together the manypassages that refer to prisoners
or the stories of those whohave been in prison for their
faith.
It referred to prisoners or thestories of those who have been
in prison for their faith, andremind your children that we are
all worthy of far worse thanprison, and that the Lord has
(42:01):
his elect, even in prison cells.
David Nakhla (42:04):
Great.
Well, I don't typically endthis way, but I'd like to ask
you to lead us in prayer, Lowell, as you are best equipped to
pray thoughtfully for thesethings.
Would you mind doing that?
Lowell Ivey (42:17):
I'd be glad to let's pray Our gracious God and
Father.
We lift our hearts up to youand we give you thanks, lord,
that you have delivered us bythe salvation that is in Jesus
Christ, that you have granted tous redemption in him, freedom
(42:38):
from the guilt of our sin,freedom from the dominion of sin
over us and freedom to speaknow of you and all that you have
done for us.
We thank you that the same powerthat raised up Jesus from the
dead is at work in us and isalso at work in many who are
(42:59):
currently confined by walls andwire but who are free in Christ.
Them up, that you wouldstrengthen them, that you would
use even many who might hearthis program and become
encouraged in thinking aboutthese things, especially deacons
(43:22):
.
Lord, we pray that you wouldraise up an army of deacons who
would consider the needs ofthose in prison, who would be
filled with the compassion ofJesus Christ and who would long
to stir up your people inchurches throughout this country
(43:43):
to seek to meet that needwherever they are.
We pray, lord, that you wouldbuild up your church even in
prison.
We pray.
Lord, that you would build upyour church even in prison, and
that you would use us in waysthat we have not even yet
thought of or considered foryour glory.
We pray these things in Jesus'name, Amen.
David Nakhla (44:08):
Well, thank you, Lowell, for joining us and for
leading us in prayer.
We rejoice in what the Lord hasdone in and is even now doing
through you prayer rejoice inwhat the Lord has done in and is
even now doing through you, andI pray that the Lord uses this
conversation to open up thisimportant area of ministry in
our churches.
Thank you, brother.
Lowell Ivey (44:20):
Thank you, david, it's been a blessing.
David Nakhla (44:22):
Thanks for joining us.
Go to our websitethereformedeaconorg.
There you will find all ourepisodes, program notes and
other helpful resources, andplease make plans to join us
again for another episode of theReformed Deacon Podcast.
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