February 6, 2024 • 44 mins
In this episode of the Response Force Multiplier podcast, host Emma Smillie, OSRL Incident and Crisis Management Lead Dave Rouse, and performance under pressure specialists Andy Couch, and Dean Wasche reflect on critical crisis management lessons and strategies for navigating uncertainty in 2024.
As the discussion unfolds, listeners gain insights into the imperative for comprehensive crisis management training and workforce preparedness. From the necessity of equipping non-emergency responders with mental skills to the utilisation of real-time feedback and kinesthetic learning, the conversation explores innovative approaches to maximising training impact and building organisational resilience.
Throughout the dialogue, practical strategies and actionable insights are shared, illuminating pathways for organisations to navigate uncertainty and optimise their response capabilities in the year ahead. Join the Response Force Multiplier team as they chart a course towards enhanced preparedness and resilience in the face of ever-changing challenges.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hello and welcome to the Response Force Multiplier, a
podcast that explores emergencyplanning and response.
On the Response ForceMultiplier, we bring together
compelling experts and thoughtleaders to provide a fresh take
on key issues and cutting edgetechniques in this field.
In each episode, we'll diveinto one aspect and we'll use
(00:25):
OSRL's unique pool of expertsand collaborators to distill
that down into actual tools andtechniques for better
preparedness and response toincidents and emergencies.
My name is Emma Smiley.
We are All Spirit Response andthis is the Response Force
Multiplier, and this is theResponse Force Multiplier.
(00:45):
In this episode, we're going totake a look back at last year
and do a little bit of forwardlooking for this year.
We're going to extract some keyinsights that can help us all
arm ourselves for the future.
I'm here today with Dave Rouse,incident Crisis Management
Leader at Orserell, and AndyCarrich, d-wash Experts in
Performing Under Pressure.
We'll be talking about whatworked well, what needs more
(01:07):
thinking through and howorganisations can get the most
value out of their crisispreparedness programmes.
We're going to begin byrevisiting the key events and
developments of 2023.
Dean, you had some reflectionsyou wanted to share.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
So when we were chatting the other day, emma,
you reminded me of thatperma-crisis term, which sort of
gained popularity at the end of2022.
And I guess we're still in it.
Really.
So you know 2023, we saw morevolatility and uncertainty, and
obviously the war in Ukrainecontinues.
We saw the devastatingterrorist attacks of Hamas in
(01:45):
Israel and then the aftermath ofthat as we move into 24, we're
now into some major electioncycles in a lot of the major
economies obviously the UK, usspecifically, but others as well
so I guess it all just adds tothat general uncertainty, unease
for some people, and so I guessthere's a lot of good work, a
lot of good commentary aroundbuilding resilience in
(02:05):
organisations, around theimportance of countering cyber
security threats, looking at theresilience of supply chains.
I think there's been a lot ofgood work being done.
There'll, of course, more to do.
I wondered, though, if there'sbeen enough focus on supporting
employees.
Most organisations will proudlystate that their organizations
(02:29):
are their employees yeah, theiremployees are their number one
asset, but yet I still think howlittle relatively those other
things we do to really equiphuman beings to be more
resilient and to work in thosekind of uca conditions, because,
just as I sort of hand over andinvite more conversation with
you guys.
I think as a species, we're notwell evolved for this
(02:49):
perma-crisis that we findourselves in.
Looking back since 2016, really, we've had big things happening
in the world, so I just wonderif, building on the work that
organisations did last yeararound technology and supply
chain resilience, there's morework we can do last year around
technology and supply chainresilience, there's more work we
can do in 24 around supportingindividual employees.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
I don't know what you guys think we're not designed
to always be on, are we as aspecies?
And I know, andy, you've spokenthat before.
Did you have any furtherthoughts?
Speaker 3 (03:20):
yeah, sure, I mean our key points.
You know we talk about theworld for many years now.
I think dean summarized itreally nicely.
That was some real example.
To sort of add to that, peoplenow use the phrase of the FUD
fear, uncertainty and doubt isnow something, and that really
talks about the spreading ofdeliberately fake news or
(03:41):
negative news or information.
And I think, even moreimportantly, if you're in crisis
management, you're going to bein scenarios where there's fake
news, there's negativeinformation coming in, as well
as all the complex dealing with.
So helping people to developthe mental skills so that you
can control your attention,whether you're a leader or
(04:02):
within one of the sections thatare responding, helping you to
control your actual attentionand what we're focusing on is
more important now than everdave, did you have any thoughts
in terms of preparednessexercises, things from 2023?
Speaker 4 (04:16):
vector dean was talking about there around some
of the macro events, some of themacro events, some of the macro
trends from 23, which arecarrying forward into 24.
And I was talking the other daywith a peer who works in
emergency response in thenuclear industry and we were
(04:36):
talking about the number, thevolume of vacancies, the amount
of recruitment that's going onnow in the resilience world, the
amount of recruitment that'sgoing on now in the resilience
world as businesses have lookedacross all industries, have
looked back at covid andrealized that they're
underprepared for the future.
And our perhaps slightlycynical take on it when we
looked in more detail was howmany of these vacancies are
(04:58):
contract positions.
They're six month, they're 12month.
They're looking at quite ashort term and that tells me,
look at people really reallylearning the lessons from the
last few years.
Are we taking resilience asseriously as we need to?
And if we're bringing inhundreds of people into these
types of roles, is the level ofexperience going to be what we
(05:21):
need it to be or are we going tofind a dilution as we go into
this?
So that was one thing that kindof connected, a couple of dots
in what dean was saying and somereflections that I'd had
separately, and, you know, as westart to see the outcomes of
some of the public inquiriesthat are ongoing or have
recently concluded, we're goingto find, I think a lot of the
(05:44):
outcomes are that there wasinsufficient attention paid to
competence of the people whohave been in decision-making
roles in managing some of theevents of the past few years,
and, of course, many of thepeople in decision-making roles
in the last few years are notprofessional emergency
(06:05):
responders, and so that's led to, I guess, that the key thing
for me, from 23 going into 24,is how do we help people who are
not professional respondersachieve the competence that they
need to for that point in timewhere they need to make those
decisions under pressure, in acrisis or emergency situation,
(06:28):
and one of the things that I'veseen that picking up on what you
were talking about, andy that'sworked really well is when we
train our clients and we workwith them on this.
One of the things that's had thehighest impact is when we're
talking about mental skills.
We're providing people with areally effective toolkit and we
use Gazing's red to blue modelbut of course there are others
(06:52):
and we make it sticky throughsome of the data-driven wearable
tech examples that we use whenwe give people mental skills
that help them in their day job,in their VUCA and FUD worlds.
That's one of the mosteffective ways of making
non-emergency response folk morecapable and more prepared for
(07:12):
the time when a crisis hits,because the delta is smaller and
they've now practiced andbecome more adept at some of
those key tools that allow themto remain composed under that
incredible pressure.
So I guess, joining together acouple of the things that we've
already been talking about,that's where I'm sitting in
January 24, looking back andlooking ahead.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
Yeah, it's really interesting, Dave.
I mean some great points interms of the level of competence
and experience that arefulfilling these roles and,
ultimately, when we talk aboutcompetence, what do we actually
mean by that?
And I think one of theframeworks that's helpful is we
talk about work with manycompanies to develop competence
(07:55):
around their structures,competence around their skill
set and competence around theirmindset.
But to Dave's point you knowwe've seen an influx,
potentially, of a lot of newpeople into these roles.
So how mature is the competencyin their skill sets?
Because we can have structuresin place, but how mature the
skill sets of?
Speaker 4 (08:14):
you know, building on that andy, time is short.
We're seeing our clients havegot less money to spend, less
time to spare on developingtheir preparedness, and even our
clients who take thisincredibly seriously invest
significant cash.
It's under pressure and we haveto do more with the time and
(08:36):
the money that we have and Ithink what we've learned and
seen the benefit of is whensomething is crisp, when it's
tangible, when it sticks, whenit's really practical and we can
cut through some of thecomplexity of the theory and
help people with stuff that theycan use right now, they can use
every day, and then stays withthem.
(08:56):
That's been where we've seenthe biggest bang for the buck.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
That's been the best return on investment I think
today's point there, you know,having real impact, as time is
short, we could also look at theincreasing role of virtual
learning.
We talked about technologicaladvancements and how important
that was for COVID and just forus to take a pause, and how much
of our time is spent virtuallearning where we're all in
(09:22):
teams calls or on training,versus maybe the approach that
would probably advocate, thatblended approach, where we do
bits of virtual but also when weare in the room together having
a visceral experience, pressure, the team is working together.
Real examples would be you canphysically sit in a press
(09:43):
conference.
You can watch the incidentcommanders or whoever's in that
leadership structure beinterviewed by reporters.
You can measure theirperformance real time and then
reflect and review and givefeedback.
Speaker 4 (09:59):
And perhaps slightly controversially, or maybe not,
depending on on your position.
The virtual model of training Ifind is becoming less and less
effective.
Certainly from a personalperspective, the more online
training I'm asked to do, themore resistant I become to it.
The less sticks in the moremultitasking I'm doing at the
same time and, you know, forcertain things, okay, you can
(10:23):
live with that.
But when it's something asimportant as preparing for a
emergency situation, I think itcan be a mistake to over-rely on
, over-estimate what could bedone through a screen versus in
real life, when it's visceral,when the training, when the
exercise, when the feedbackcreates the mental scars that
(10:44):
stick with you and really giveyou the muscle memory and
something that will serve youwell on the day that you need it
.
I think that's where, in 2023,where there's a you know I've
seen a lot more stuff goingonline, looking forward, I think
starting to resist that andfocus on what those face-to-face
interactions can deliver foryou, which you just can't
(11:04):
achieve through a screen.
What I've seen that workedreally well in 23, we worked
with one of our clients who hada need to train their logistics
team of a global organization.
They've got internationalresources that can cascade into
any of the countries where theymay have a problem.
(11:25):
And a number of those resourcesare in the logistics team, and
that logistics team had a wholerange of experiences but was
largely fairly new to theirroles and hadn't had the
opportunities to work together,and they asked us to work with
them to develop the team comingtogether, develop their
(11:47):
understanding of logistics andmake sure they're ready for
their worst case scenario.
And what worked reallyeffectively in that engagement
was, in particular, weaving inthe mindset tools.
So, whilst we had a theorysession on what it would take to
mobilize equipment from countryA to country B and the sorts of
(12:08):
factors like logistics andimmigration and customs you may
need to encounter, actually howdo you work as a team?
How do you get the best out ofthe team?
What are the leadershipbehaviors that you need?
How do you know that that'sworking?
How do you use your senses aswell as the logic, and what are
the mental tools that allow youto work in a different country,
a different culture, on adifferent time zone, with people
(12:30):
you've never met, when time isshort and the pressure's on, and
so those were really practicalthings, but they were woven into
a different subject.
This wasn't saying you need tospend two days on mental skills,
as valuable as that is.
This is saying this issomething we can just plug in,
and there are lots of thosethings that we can just plug in
to other engagements, and Ithink that's the trick that
(12:53):
we're working with our clientsfor 24 to get maximum value is
how do we make things short,punchy, sticky, but they plug in
and we can do lots of things atonce.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
And another thing that we ran in the background
there just building on one ofthe tools you mentioned.
We also had a group of thelogistics team wearing some
wearables called First BeatTechnology, which, in the
background, measures theirstress and recovery over that
week.
But it also took into accountthe fact that these people had
flown in from overseas, sothere's already a bit of sleep
debt there.
Potentially it might show theeffect of long days that they
(13:33):
had and how we socialize in theevening as well, and maybe even
the effect of alcohol or sleepdeprivation.
And so over the week we're ableto build a really good picture
of their physiological responseto the demands of, in this case,
a training course which helpsthem to look at their habits
both as individuals but as agroup.
(13:54):
How do they build in some ofthese habits for resilience?
We're talking things like sleep, how we help people power down
and rest and recover, and allthose highlights were able to be
drawn out for that week andthat was the overriding feedback
that we got, because thesethings are relevant in their
day-to-day world.
Speaker 4 (14:13):
People are in high-pressure jobs and now
giving them the framework tothink and talk about the effects
of sleep and recharging yourbody's batteries, and exercise
and nutrition and all of thesethings.
These are not things thatyou're normally thinking about
if you sign up for a crisismanagement class, but they're so
(14:33):
important and they're thethings that work for you day to
day as well.
You look at the budget that youhave because we need to be
realistic and the time that youcan afford, and then you start
to get a bit creative.
I think it would be a mistaketo default to the standard
providers and the standardclasses that don't have the
innovation that haven't changed,because I think that will
(14:57):
prepare you at best foryesterday's crisis.
It doesn't prepare you fortomorrow's and it doesn't allow
you to maximize those limitedresources you have to invest in.
So if you're taking resilienceand building capability and
building competence seriouslyand any organization should be
(15:18):
then thinking about how do I becreative?
How do I achieve lots of thingsin one engagement?
How do I push OSRL, or whoeveryour training providers are, to
give me more impact that sticksfrom those engagements that we
do invest in this year.
And I think the second part tothat is it has to be practical.
Look for the things that createthe scars and the muscle memory
(15:41):
and are very tangible,practical, actionable things
that create the scars and themuscle memory and are very
tangible, practical, actionablethings that people can do.
In the past, lots of trainingwould spend a day or two days on
the theory and then maybe a dayon an exercise.
Well, that's fine if you havethree days and it might work for
some people.
But the more time that we'respent in kinesthetic learning,
(16:01):
where we're actually doing andpracticing and getting feedback
and creating those mental scarsthat benefit us, that's where
the maximum value is going to be.
But I think the converse ofthat, whilst we recognize that
resources and time are tight, isto think that you can get away
with building resilience on ashoestring.
It does require investment, itit does require time, and when
(16:25):
you start to cut the corners andfeel the pinch, then you'll
find that you're not achievingas much as you should be.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
And another thing that we found really helpful in
terms of maximizing the learningis actually the role of
real-time performance coaching.
So as teams come together, youwant to maximize value.
So having dedicatedprofessional performance coaches
in the room with you that helpyou to front load what you're
trying to achieve, you know bereally clear on what your aims
(16:51):
are.
So that notion of sort offeeding forward and looking at
what does good look like andthen we enter the perform phase
where we practice, we experience, and then the performance coach
can really help some of the keyleaders within the team reflect
and actually see just how wellthey did perform or what their
edges are.
And then you look ahead, you goagain.
(17:13):
So this idea of preparation andthen performance and then
review, facilitated byperformance coaches, is really
maximizing the experience andthen the benefit that clients
are getting.
Speaker 4 (17:25):
So in an exercise that we were involved in in 23,
andy, we saw the real benefit ofperformance coaching and the
force multiplying effect theyhad.
It was you, in fact, who wascoaching the incident command
team on this major exercise withseveral hundred people over
several days and you could seeit was visible to me as an
(17:50):
evaluator the effect that it hadon performance of the
individuals of the collective.
Clearly, as the incidentcommand team that sets the tone
and the strategic direction ofthose quiet conversations that
were not obvious unless you knewwhere to look.
But you could see thedifference it made to the
individuals, but the feedbackthat we got from that about how
(18:11):
powerful it was and much more wewant to do with that.
And this is the effect of oneperson in a particularly pivotal
role as a coach that can haveover the direction and quality
of the whole response.
So I think that's one of thosenuggets where there's a force
multiplying effect, wherethere's a real benefit, a
disproportionate impact, if youwill, of that role.
(18:34):
So I would encourage forexercises and training
engagements, looking ahead thisyear, that's one of the things
companies can think about.
How can I use a performancecoach in real time during an
exercise to accelerate thelearning, get the performance
levels up through those reallysubtle but incredibly powerful
(18:56):
conversations, and I think thisis the opportunity in 24 to
connect in some of the immersivetechnologies that are now much
more freely available to makethe virtual learning or online
learning environment morepowerful so that we can maximize
that face-to-face time.
But the pre-learning has hadthe impact that it can have in
(19:18):
the classroom and I think that'swhere we'll be doing some
innovation, can have in theclassroom and I think that's
where we'll be doing someinnovation, and we're already
talking with one of our clientspreparing for a major exercise
about how to do that, how tomake sure that before and during
the exercise we're maximizingthe time but we're creating the
situational awareness.
We've got that real visceralexperience happening.
So I think there's lots of goodwork to do there.
(19:41):
The other thing if I can buildon your part there, andy, and
around the impact of performancecoaching, was a gap that I'm
still seeing in the use ofeffective debriefing and after
action reviews and how stillthey can be seen as a little bit
of an afterthought.
People are tired, they've beenthrough it, they want to go home
(20:04):
and now attacking on thisdebrief and the after action
review, and it still feels likewe're missing a trick here, in
that all of the learnings 90 ofthem evaporate because we're not
capturing them in a systematicway or we're being still you and
to do it is better than to notdo it at all.
But I think we can be better,and the lazy approach of what
(20:28):
are three things that went welland three things that could have
gone better is exactly thatit's a little bit lazy, it's a
little bit contrived and itdoesn't really get down to the
depths of what are the two orthree things if we really focus
on will make us significantlybetter.
Speaker 3 (20:42):
Yeah, great point, great point.
And you know, as we run thoseafter action reviews, the
structure of that review and theskillfulness with which that
review is conducted is asimportant as anything we do
during the exercise as well.
So really important that thatis the focus and it's planned
for and it's delivered to areally high quality level,
(21:04):
because ultimately, that willtake and generate a lot of the
learning from the immersiveexperience and will equip you
with a roadmap of where you gonext.
So really important.
And I also think you made areally key point around the
learnings evaporating learningsevaporating.
So if we wait to the end toconduct an after action review,
(21:27):
we're just missing multipleopportunities throughout the
live event to catch people beinggood, so to speak.
When someone's done somethingwell, how do you generally feed
that back?
When things aren't working, howdo we capture that information
and, as timely as possible, howdo you feed that back into the
system?
And that can be done in manyways.
The advantage of feeding thatinsight real time back into the
system is that you can then feedforward and if, as a
(21:51):
performance coach, you noticethe clarity isn't there, you can
guarantee the alignment betweenthe different sections work
there.
So to point that out and feedit back in real time rather than
wait to the end of the exerciseis a much better approach.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
And we've talked quite a lot about incident
commanders.
In terms of crisis leadership,what are the trends for this
year?
What are the things that crisisleaders need to be thinking
about?
Dean, maybe this is one for you, given your podcast on
leadership.
Speaker 4 (22:22):
Has anything really changed?
Is there anything different in23 to 24 about what crisis
leaders should be thinking?
Speaker 2 (22:29):
about?
Yeah, that's an interestingquestion, emma.
So I think many of the themesthat were prevalent in 2023 are
still, as I touched upon in myoriginal podcast the fact we are
still in this crisis, thiscontinued period of uncertainty.
I think the pressure on crisisleaders is still very much there
(22:50):
.
So I guess it's this need tokeep working on their inner game
and how we think about ourplace in the world and how we
make sense of the world aroundus as leaders is absolutely
fundamental to how we ultimatelyproject ourselves in the world.
So I think there is still theneed to work on their own
development and their own innergame so that, should they be
(23:12):
required to step up and lead ina crisis, you know that you're
at moment they are more able todo that so, again, we come back
to this model of how do we helppeople crisis leaders to prepare
.
Speaker 3 (23:25):
But what does that actually look like?
So, in terms of preparation asa leader, how do you get
yourself ready in terms of whatskills you need and the
mentality that you need in orderto be calm, project clarity
when you get into theperformance phase as a leader,
what does good look like?
And then, ultimately, the thirdpart that we help crisis
leaders is reviewing their ownperformance, and that's how we
(23:47):
learn from pressure.
That's how we get better thenext time.
One of the things I wanted tosay about crisis leaders is a
lot spoken about the ability tohave empathy as a leader, and I
think, when you're in a crisis,one of your greatest strengths
as a crisis leader is to be ableto understand where your people
are, understand the impact ofmaybe the incident or crisis on
(24:08):
the local community.
So neuropathy is a key skill.
It's really important and thathelps you, as a crisis leader,
be transparent with your people,be transparent with regulators,
with the government, with thelocal community, and that, for
me, is all underpinned by can aleader be vulnerable?
And that ability to not beSuperman or Superwoman, and it's
(24:31):
really important that crisisleaders have that vulnerability
so they can connect to theirteam, so they create that
environment in the crisismanagement team.
She's psychologically safe,though, that people do bring
ideas, people do challenge.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
You mentioned not being Superman or Superwoman.
There is a constant pace ofchange.
As we've discussed a kind ofalways-on feeling, I guess in
2024, do you see moreorganisations focusing on
wellbeing and preventing burnout, or do you think that's still
work to be done in that area?
Speaker 3 (25:08):
Great question.
Ultimately, I think from ourexperience or my experience the
expectations of employees haveshifted over the last few years,
particularly in the area ofwellbeing and health.
Now we know and we understandthat if you're going to be part
of an incident and crisismanagement team, that can be a
demanding role.
So, in general, most peopleknow that, they know what
they're signing up.
However, this is something Ithink we need to take really
(25:29):
seriously in terms of how do weplan and prepare for wellbeing,
resilience of individuals andalso the collective team.
So there's lots of ways we cando this, but the first thing I
would say is we've got to takeit seriously because if we don't
, your next crisis can begenerated by your own culture
within your own incident crisismanagement team.
There are things that we can do, let's say, process-wise,
(25:53):
within the ICS structure, wehave the safety officer.
How do we build into that rolepotentially, so it becomes
something that's built intoprocess in terms of well-being?
How do we take in to that rolepotentially, so it becomes
something that's built intoprocess in terms of well-being?
How do we take time outs?
How do we create space withinthe ICS process, for example,
where we are consciously helpingthe mitigating of stress and
(26:14):
exertion.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
Dean when we were talking about disengagement.
How does that link into whatDanny spoke about potential kind
of future crisis coming fromyour own people?
Speaker 2 (26:25):
I think they're closely linked and I'm just
referencing, you know, some ofthe research that's come from
McKinsey and others about levelsof disengagement in the
workforce at large, in theglobal workforce, particularly,
you know, in some of thedeveloped parts of the world.
You know there's an alarminglevel, it appears, and sort of
disengagement and quiet quitting, I think was a popular term
(26:48):
last year and I think thosepeople are more susceptible to
burnout, you know.
So I guess it's really lookingat the workforce because there's
organizations who want to.
There's a massive competitionfor talent, isn't there globally
, various sector to sector.
But as Andy said in his lastpoint about expectations are
(27:08):
shifting.
So I think there's a so whatthere for organizations If you
want to attract and retain toptalent, people are increasingly
looking for what well-beingofferings they have, but also
actually in terms of supportingpeople in performing at their
best, both in a business asusual context, but certainly an
incident and crisis, how do theycome in in a state where
(27:29):
they're ready to perform?
And you know, I would say, ifthey're already disengaged,
they're more susceptible toburnout because they're less
connected to the organization,to their colleagues, which then
links back to an earlier pointdave made about the limitations
of virtual training.
If we do too much of it, I justwe don't build the same level
of connectedness, I think, withour colleagues, co-workers, that
(27:49):
we need.
So I think they're linked tohim.
To come back to your question,and I think it's interesting
where it goes, but I thinkcertainly the more
forward-thinking companies areincreasingly looking at
well-being and how do theyreally promote good well-being
and support their employeesbeing their best selves at work
so that, should an incident orcrisis emerge, they are truly
(28:10):
resilient from a humanperspective, not just assistance
perspective, to hopefullyweather that incident or crisis?
Speaker 4 (28:18):
We're about to work with a couple of different
clients on similar projectswhich, in my view, fit the bill
of being super high impact,super high value without being
super expensive, and I thoughtmaybe it's worth us talking
(28:39):
about those projects a littlebit to see if that plants any
seeds for people who are lookingto do something a bit more
creative, especially once theyfeel they've reached the
maturity in their systems andstructures and practice and
things are getting stale.
How do they add some oomph toit and really hit the next level
(28:59):
of performance?
So maybe, dean, if you go firstand talk about the progressive
work that you're about to godeliver to a client in the US.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
Yeah, thanks, dave.
So it's an exciting area, isn'tit?
Because, as you say, these aretypically very large national or
often multinational companiesthat have been doing this stuff
for a long time.
So actually they've gotstructure particularly really
well established.
They've got whether it's IMS ora variation of it, they've got
role cards, people really welltrained and rehearsed in those
(29:32):
respective roles.
Often skillset is also equallywell established.
So I think, increasingly, whenit comes to enhancing
performance, these companies arelooking at that mindset
component again that Andy spokeof.
So what I'm gearing up to dowith a client very soon is
really spend a day, a reallyimpactful day, looking
specifically at the role thatmindset plays in enhancing an
(29:56):
emergency response.
So we're going to spend themorning doing lots of really
impactful activities around.
What simple tools andtechniques can we as individuals
employ to ultimately be moreskillful under pressure?
We're then going to build thatup to what do operational
leaders need under pressure?
So, again coming back to some ofthe things that Andy mentioned
(30:17):
about, how do leaders bringclarity, lead decision making?
But they can only do that, ofcourse, if they're not
emotionally hijacked themselves.
So how do they access that bitof their brain, the executive
functions that allow us, ashuman beings, to make those good
, well-considered decisions, andthen ultimately spending some
time looking at the strategicleadership.
What do strategic leaders needand I touched a bit on this in
(30:39):
my earlier podcast, episode fouraround.
Strategic leaders are reallyworking in complexity, and how
do they work with the varyingstakeholders to manage the
polarities that ultimately theyget with complexity?
So the idea over the day is togive individuals, middle leaders
and senior leaders simple toolsand techniques which they can
(31:01):
deploy either pre-performance,during performance or
post-performance to maximizetheir performance when it
matters so the other thing thatwe've got in the pipeline, which
I think is really quiteinteresting, is that most of our
clients engage us for crisismanagement incident support.
Speaker 4 (31:21):
But we've got another major client who's looked at
that and realized the value itcan have in other situations
which are also high pressure andhigh consequence and fit many
of the criteria of a crisis, andthat's a client that's going
through the application processto develop wind farms.
(31:42):
So super high pressure, superhigh consequence situations that
they will be in when theproposed plans come under
significant scrutiny and theteams that are involved will
need to explain and justify andpotentially defend decisions in
(32:02):
potentially legal situations.
And so they've asked us to comeand work with those teams and
help with the mental skillstoolkit, because the
characteristics are the samedoesn't need to be a emergency
response type crisis to get thevalue out of the performing
under pressure composure toolsthat we deliver.
(32:22):
So I just thought that'sanother really interesting
project and the value of some ofthis stuff outside of the world
of crisis response.
Emma, you're going to beleading this particular
engagement.
What are you most excited about?
Speaker 1 (32:39):
Just seeing how the framework can be used outside
that crisis management context.
There are always, as we'vementioned, pressure moments and
you're very far from theemergency response people that
we would normally be training.
So how they will take thosetools and be able to apply them
to what they're doing, I thinkthat really excites me.
Speaker 4 (32:58):
And just taking our skill set that we've used in the
oil industry just that littlebit wider, so I think we've
talked a lot about what matureorganizations with established
structures, establishedprocesses, can do to get even
better.
But I've worked with a numberof clients in the past year and
(33:20):
hope to continue to do so nextyear.
They were at a much earlierstage of the development of a
crisis capability, and whatcontinues to be at play
something we see a lot is theworking up through the stages of
the complexity ladder.
So let me explain what thecomplexity ladder is.
(33:43):
Well, the complexity curve is abetter description.
So when an organization startsout, it has nothing.
You're at the bottom of thecurve and as you start to put
things in place, you put inplace a plan first, and then you
do some training and you have ateam, but you're still not
comfortable.
So the team then has an urgefor checklist, it needs a flow
(34:06):
chart, it needs a playbook, itneeds all the scenarios to be
defined and put in the appendix,and then you need technology,
because then you're not workingoff of whiteboards, you feel
like you're more comfortable.
You need all these aids.
So what you've done is you'veincreased the complexity without
really becoming any morecompetent, and then, as a team
continues to mature, they startto develop the confidence.
(34:28):
They've used this plan, they'veworked through the processes,
they've worked as a team a fewtimes in exercises, so they're
developing their confidence andnow they've got just a whole lot
of stuff in their system.
So they've still got the highcomplexity and the complexity
starts to get in the way becausethey're finding that they've
got a playbook that doesn't workfor the incident in that hand.
(34:50):
So there's the.
You're torn between do we usethe playbook?
Do we go off piste?
And that can create challenges.
So the more that the teampractices, the more experienced
they become, the more they canrecognize that extensive, over
complicated plans, processes,structures have their downsides
as well as their benefits, andthat's the moment that it clicks
(35:14):
for them.
Where they get the less is moremindset.
They can start then to be morereductive.
They can start to strip backthe plans, make them more simple
, make them less complicated,have fewer reporting lines,
fewer structures, fewer thingsthat get in the way.
And that's where we see thereally high performing teams get
to is that they recognize thatthe competence of the team is
(35:37):
disproportionately moreimportant than the volume of
bands and the complexity of thestructures.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
So it's how do you keep it really simple, keep it
actionable and train it in a waywhere it becomes innate, so
when they do need it, it takesno additional bandwidth in the
moment to call upon it, they canjust do it.
Speaker 4 (35:58):
The other thing I've seen a couple of times recently
and is one of my resolutions tomake sure that we don't fall
into the same trap is playingtoo easy during an exercise or a
drill, and what I mean is we'vehad really well developed
simulations with you, withreally well-qualified and
(36:20):
experienced people in thesimulation cell providing
injects that drive an exercise,and we feel like we've stretched
people.
But the feedback at the end ina couple of these has been you
could have done more.
You could have pushed us harderin media.
You could have made the humanaspects have pushed us harder in
media.
You could have made the humanaspects of this more challenging
(36:42):
for us.
You didn't need to safeguardour feelings.
You could have really pushed it.
And in those couple of occasionsthat I've seen and been part of
this year, whilst we thought wewere stretching, we weren't
pushing far enough, and thenobviously what that means is we
didn't get as many learnings out.
We didn't create the scars thatwe probably could have done,
(37:02):
and so the resolution for 24 isto really stretch people out
when we're designing anddelivering exercises, is to push
it as hard as we can and thenpush it a little bit further,
because what we've seen in thelast few months is that people
do want that.
They're ready, they want to bepushed.
So what was the best thing thatyou saw or did in relation to
(37:26):
high performing crisismanagement in the last year?
Speaker 3 (37:30):
the best thing I was involved with and witnessed last
year was monitoring a verylarge crisis management group
that had all flown in fromdifferent parts of the world and
being able to, at the end ofthe week-long training and
exercise, play back to themtheir physiological data about
(37:50):
the impact of those flights, thepressure of the week, the sleep
challenges and deprivation, andactually play back to them in
numbers, factually.
Here's what, as a group, youwent through and here's how your
body responded and why that wasso good is the insights it gave
people were incredibly usefulfor what they can do about it.
Speaker 4 (38:14):
Emma, what else have you seen in the last year?
What was the best thing thatyou saw?
Speaker 1 (38:18):
One of the things I was thinking about was the group
of people that we trained asRed to Blue coaches and actually
taking some individuals who hadno experience of the framework
at all through that journey tobe able to train on Red to Blue,
and it was a similar thing.
You know.
They started kind of knowing alittle bit about it, not really
getting it to light bulb momentsthrough that time and relating
(38:40):
to it and looking at it andseeing how they apply it in
their actual lives.
That was impactful.
How about you, dave?
Speaker 4 (38:47):
So I think one of the best things that I saw in 2023
was from a new trainer that'sworking with OSRL now.
He delivered for us a workshophalf a day on critical decision
making in high pressuresituation, and this was to a
(39:09):
group of highly experiencedprofessional responders, and I
saw the value of actuallybreaking down the mental
processes and the impact ofbiases on how critical decisions
are recognized and made by thisgroup, and subsequently have
(39:29):
seen a number of them put theirpractices and tools into
practice during responses duringday-to-day business, and the
feedback from those few hourshas been that it was super high
impact, super useful.
So for me, that was probablythe best, most impactful thing I
(39:50):
saw in 2023 was how do you takethat skill of decision making
and really buy some deliberatefocus on it, improve it for
people so that they can performbetter?
Speaker 2 (40:00):
I think it's the power of performance coaching A
simply trained butwell-positioned professional
who's there to give support, togive advice, to be that sounding
board, to be that criticalfriend, that mirror in the
moment, carefully timed feedbackthroughout, so that, again in
the moment, carefully timedfeedback throughout, so that,
again, in the spirit of gettingthe most from all of our
(40:22):
preparedness exercises, ratherthan wait till the end to give
lots of feedback, which is oftentoo much, people don't want to
hear it because they're alreadythinking about their trip home.
It's how do you do that?
Throughout the exercise itbecomes iterative.
Speaker 4 (40:35):
People are learning as they go, getting better,
better it's interesting thinkingabout how we've all focused on
people, as our best thing thatwe've seen and the most
impactful work that we've doneis all around building up the
competency and the performanceof people, and we've talked very
little about structures andplans and flowcharts and
(40:59):
processes, and I think that justgoes to underline our position
generally that less is more withplans and actually the
importance of a competent teamand highly performing
individuals is what will get anyorganization through uncertain
times and crisis situations.
So if I was to give one piece ofadvice to anyone asking on what
(41:23):
the focus for this year shouldbe, for me it's about making
sure whatever you do ispractical and high impact and to
make that more tangible for you, you, my strongest
recommendation is hold anexercise, evaluate what you have
and review, but do it all witha view to stretching and being
(41:48):
really honest about what youfind and what you're going to do
about it.
So that's my one piece ofadvice hold an exercise and have
a really honest review of whatit shows you.
Yeah, that's my one piece ofadvice Hold an exercise and have
a really honest review of whatit shows you.
Speaker 3 (41:59):
Yeah, I guess my one piece of advice would be to
broaden out what you consider tobe competence for an incident
and crisis management team,because it's easy to get stuck
on the processes we need tofollow.
Whilst that structure iscritical, I would encourage
everyone to broaden out and lookat competence in terms of the
(42:23):
structures and processes, skillsof the people, both technically
and behavioral, and then themindset and the well-being side
is critical as well.
So all three go togetherstructure, skill set, mindset I
think mine would be.
Speaker 2 (42:39):
We all need to keep working on ourselves so we are
never done, particularly thosein leadership roles.
I think it's really importantthat we keep looking at how do
we make sense of the world, howdo we show up in the best way
possible to get the best out ofthe people we have the privilege
to lead and work with, and usethe structures around you to do
that.
In-house leadership development.
(43:00):
External, use the resourcesaround you and you don't fall
into that complacency trap whereyou ever think you're done,
you've finished learning or it'sfor everyone else by you.
I think it's really importantthat leaders keep role modeling
humility, humility,self-awareness keep developing
themselves.
Speaker 1 (43:20):
I think now's the time to check your crisis comms
plans and make sure that you'vefully thought through technology
and the channels, etc.
Because everything changes sorapidly in communications, and
make sure that you know what thesort of one, two, three risks
for your individual company areand that your crisis comms are
aligned with that.
Thank you for listening to theResponse Force Multiplier from
(43:51):
OSRL.
Please like and subscribewherever you get your podcasts
and stay tuned for more episodesas we continue to explore key
issues in emergency response andcrisis management.
For more information, head toosrlcom.
See you soon.
Hello and welcome to the Response Force Multiplier, a
podcast that explores emergencyplanning and response.
On the Response ForceMultiplier, we bring together
compelling experts and thoughtleaders to provide a fresh take
on key issues and cutting edgetechniques in this field.
In each episode, we'll diveinto one aspect and we'll use
(00:25):
OSRL's unique pool of expertsand collaborators to distill
that down into actual tools andtechniques for better
preparedness and response toincidents and emergencies.
My name is Emma Smiley.
We are All Spirit Response andthis is the Response Force
Multiplier, and this is theResponse Force Multiplier.
(00:45):
In this episode, we're going totake a look back at last year
and do a little bit of forwardlooking for this year.
We're going to extract some keyinsights that can help us all
arm ourselves for the future.
I'm here today with Dave Rouse,incident Crisis Management
Leader at Orserell, and AndyCarrich, d-wash Experts in
Performing Under Pressure.
We'll be talking about whatworked well, what needs more
(01:07):
thinking through and howorganisations can get the most
value out of their crisispreparedness programmes.
We're going to begin byrevisiting the key events and
developments of 2023.
Dean, you had some reflectionsyou wanted to share.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
So when we were chatting the other day, emma,
you reminded me of thatperma-crisis term, which sort of
gained popularity at the end of2022.
And I guess we're still in it.
Really.
So you know 2023, we saw morevolatility and uncertainty, and
obviously the war in Ukrainecontinues.
We saw the devastatingterrorist attacks of Hamas in
(01:45):
Israel and then the aftermath ofthat as we move into 24, we're
now into some major electioncycles in a lot of the major
economies obviously the UK, usspecifically, but others as well
so I guess it all just adds tothat general uncertainty, unease
for some people, and so I guessthere's a lot of good work, a
lot of good commentary aroundbuilding resilience in
(02:05):
organisations, around theimportance of countering cyber
security threats, looking at theresilience of supply chains.
I think there's been a lot ofgood work being done.
There'll, of course, more to do.
I wondered, though, if there'sbeen enough focus on supporting
employees.
Most organisations will proudlystate that their organizations
(02:29):
are their employees yeah, theiremployees are their number one
asset, but yet I still think howlittle relatively those other
things we do to really equiphuman beings to be more
resilient and to work in thosekind of uca conditions, because,
just as I sort of hand over andinvite more conversation with
you guys.
I think as a species, we're notwell evolved for this
(02:49):
perma-crisis that we findourselves in.
Looking back since 2016, really, we've had big things happening
in the world, so I just wonderif, building on the work that
organisations did last yeararound technology and supply
chain resilience, there's morework we can do last year around
technology and supply chainresilience, there's more work we
can do in 24 around supportingindividual employees.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
I don't know what you guys think we're not designed
to always be on, are we as aspecies?
And I know, andy, you've spokenthat before.
Did you have any furtherthoughts?
Speaker 3 (03:20):
yeah, sure, I mean our key points.
You know we talk about theworld for many years now.
I think dean summarized itreally nicely.
That was some real example.
To sort of add to that, peoplenow use the phrase of the FUD
fear, uncertainty and doubt isnow something, and that really
talks about the spreading ofdeliberately fake news or
(03:41):
negative news or information.
And I think, even moreimportantly, if you're in crisis
management, you're going to bein scenarios where there's fake
news, there's negativeinformation coming in, as well
as all the complex dealing with.
So helping people to developthe mental skills so that you
can control your attention,whether you're a leader or
(04:02):
within one of the sections thatare responding, helping you to
control your actual attentionand what we're focusing on is
more important now than everdave, did you have any thoughts
in terms of preparednessexercises, things from 2023?
Speaker 4 (04:16):
vector dean was talking about there around some
of the macro events, some of themacro events, some of the macro
trends from 23, which arecarrying forward into 24.
And I was talking the other daywith a peer who works in
emergency response in thenuclear industry and we were
(04:36):
talking about the number, thevolume of vacancies, the amount
of recruitment that's going onnow in the resilience world, the
amount of recruitment that'sgoing on now in the resilience
world as businesses have lookedacross all industries, have
looked back at covid andrealized that they're
underprepared for the future.
And our perhaps slightlycynical take on it when we
looked in more detail was howmany of these vacancies are
(04:58):
contract positions.
They're six month, they're 12month.
They're looking at quite ashort term and that tells me,
look at people really reallylearning the lessons from the
last few years.
Are we taking resilience asseriously as we need to?
And if we're bringing inhundreds of people into these
types of roles, is the level ofexperience going to be what we
(05:21):
need it to be or are we going tofind a dilution as we go into
this?
So that was one thing that kindof connected, a couple of dots
in what dean was saying and somereflections that I'd had
separately, and, you know, as westart to see the outcomes of
some of the public inquiriesthat are ongoing or have
recently concluded, we're goingto find, I think a lot of the
(05:44):
outcomes are that there wasinsufficient attention paid to
competence of the people whohave been in decision-making
roles in managing some of theevents of the past few years,
and, of course, many of thepeople in decision-making roles
in the last few years are notprofessional emergency
(06:05):
responders, and so that's led to, I guess, that the key thing
for me, from 23 going into 24,is how do we help people who are
not professional respondersachieve the competence that they
need to for that point in timewhere they need to make those
decisions under pressure, in acrisis or emergency situation,
(06:28):
and one of the things that I'veseen that picking up on what you
were talking about, andy that'sworked really well is when we
train our clients and we workwith them on this.
One of the things that's had thehighest impact is when we're
talking about mental skills.
We're providing people with areally effective toolkit and we
use Gazing's red to blue modelbut of course there are others
(06:52):
and we make it sticky throughsome of the data-driven wearable
tech examples that we use whenwe give people mental skills
that help them in their day job,in their VUCA and FUD worlds.
That's one of the mosteffective ways of making
non-emergency response folk morecapable and more prepared for
(07:12):
the time when a crisis hits,because the delta is smaller and
they've now practiced andbecome more adept at some of
those key tools that allow themto remain composed under that
incredible pressure.
So I guess, joining together acouple of the things that we've
already been talking about,that's where I'm sitting in
January 24, looking back andlooking ahead.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
Yeah, it's really interesting, Dave.
I mean some great points interms of the level of competence
and experience that arefulfilling these roles and,
ultimately, when we talk aboutcompetence, what do we actually
mean by that?
And I think one of theframeworks that's helpful is we
talk about work with manycompanies to develop competence
(07:55):
around their structures,competence around their skill
set and competence around theirmindset.
But to Dave's point you knowwe've seen an influx,
potentially, of a lot of newpeople into these roles.
So how mature is the competencyin their skill sets?
Because we can have structuresin place, but how mature the
skill sets of?
Speaker 4 (08:14):
you know, building on that andy, time is short.
We're seeing our clients havegot less money to spend, less
time to spare on developingtheir preparedness, and even our
clients who take thisincredibly seriously invest
significant cash.
It's under pressure and we haveto do more with the time and
(08:36):
the money that we have and Ithink what we've learned and
seen the benefit of is whensomething is crisp, when it's
tangible, when it sticks, whenit's really practical and we can
cut through some of thecomplexity of the theory and
help people with stuff that theycan use right now, they can use
every day, and then stays withthem.
(08:56):
That's been where we've seenthe biggest bang for the buck.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
That's been the best return on investment I think
today's point there, you know,having real impact, as time is
short, we could also look at theincreasing role of virtual
learning.
We talked about technologicaladvancements and how important
that was for COVID and just forus to take a pause, and how much
of our time is spent virtuallearning where we're all in
(09:22):
teams calls or on training,versus maybe the approach that
would probably advocate, thatblended approach, where we do
bits of virtual but also when weare in the room together having
a visceral experience, pressure, the team is working together.
Real examples would be you canphysically sit in a press
(09:43):
conference.
You can watch the incidentcommanders or whoever's in that
leadership structure beinterviewed by reporters.
You can measure theirperformance real time and then
reflect and review and givefeedback.
Speaker 4 (09:59):
And perhaps slightly controversially, or maybe not,
depending on on your position.
The virtual model of training Ifind is becoming less and less
effective.
Certainly from a personalperspective, the more online
training I'm asked to do, themore resistant I become to it.
The less sticks in the moremultitasking I'm doing at the
same time and, you know, forcertain things, okay, you can
(10:23):
live with that.
But when it's something asimportant as preparing for a
emergency situation, I think itcan be a mistake to over-rely on
, over-estimate what could bedone through a screen versus in
real life, when it's visceral,when the training, when the
exercise, when the feedbackcreates the mental scars that
(10:44):
stick with you and really giveyou the muscle memory and
something that will serve youwell on the day that you need it
.
I think that's where, in 2023,where there's a you know I've
seen a lot more stuff goingonline, looking forward, I think
starting to resist that andfocus on what those face-to-face
interactions can deliver foryou, which you just can't
(11:04):
achieve through a screen.
What I've seen that workedreally well in 23, we worked
with one of our clients who hada need to train their logistics
team of a global organization.
They've got internationalresources that can cascade into
any of the countries where theymay have a problem.
(11:25):
And a number of those resourcesare in the logistics team, and
that logistics team had a wholerange of experiences but was
largely fairly new to theirroles and hadn't had the
opportunities to work together,and they asked us to work with
them to develop the team comingtogether, develop their
(11:47):
understanding of logistics andmake sure they're ready for
their worst case scenario.
And what worked reallyeffectively in that engagement
was, in particular, weaving inthe mindset tools.
So, whilst we had a theorysession on what it would take to
mobilize equipment from countryA to country B and the sorts of
(12:08):
factors like logistics andimmigration and customs you may
need to encounter, actually howdo you work as a team?
How do you get the best out ofthe team?
What are the leadershipbehaviors that you need?
How do you know that that'sworking?
How do you use your senses aswell as the logic, and what are
the mental tools that allow youto work in a different country,
a different culture, on adifferent time zone, with people
(12:30):
you've never met, when time isshort and the pressure's on, and
so those were really practicalthings, but they were woven into
a different subject.
This wasn't saying you need tospend two days on mental skills,
as valuable as that is.
This is saying this issomething we can just plug in,
and there are lots of thosethings that we can just plug in
to other engagements, and Ithink that's the trick that
(12:53):
we're working with our clientsfor 24 to get maximum value is
how do we make things short,punchy, sticky, but they plug in
and we can do lots of things atonce.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
And another thing that we ran in the background
there just building on one ofthe tools you mentioned.
We also had a group of thelogistics team wearing some
wearables called First BeatTechnology, which, in the
background, measures theirstress and recovery over that
week.
But it also took into accountthe fact that these people had
flown in from overseas, sothere's already a bit of sleep
debt there.
Potentially it might show theeffect of long days that they
(13:33):
had and how we socialize in theevening as well, and maybe even
the effect of alcohol or sleepdeprivation.
And so over the week we're ableto build a really good picture
of their physiological responseto the demands of, in this case,
a training course which helpsthem to look at their habits
both as individuals but as agroup.
(13:54):
How do they build in some ofthese habits for resilience?
We're talking things like sleep, how we help people power down
and rest and recover, and allthose highlights were able to be
drawn out for that week andthat was the overriding feedback
that we got, because thesethings are relevant in their
day-to-day world.
Speaker 4 (14:13):
People are in high-pressure jobs and now
giving them the framework tothink and talk about the effects
of sleep and recharging yourbody's batteries, and exercise
and nutrition and all of thesethings.
These are not things thatyou're normally thinking about
if you sign up for a crisismanagement class, but they're so
(14:33):
important and they're thethings that work for you day to
day as well.
You look at the budget that youhave because we need to be
realistic and the time that youcan afford, and then you start
to get a bit creative.
I think it would be a mistaketo default to the standard
providers and the standardclasses that don't have the
innovation that haven't changed,because I think that will
(14:57):
prepare you at best foryesterday's crisis.
It doesn't prepare you fortomorrow's and it doesn't allow
you to maximize those limitedresources you have to invest in.
So if you're taking resilienceand building capability and
building competence seriouslyand any organization should be
(15:18):
then thinking about how do I becreative?
How do I achieve lots of thingsin one engagement?
How do I push OSRL, or whoeveryour training providers are, to
give me more impact that sticksfrom those engagements that we
do invest in this year.
And I think the second part tothat is it has to be practical.
Look for the things that createthe scars and the muscle memory
(15:41):
and are very tangible,practical, actionable things
that create the scars and themuscle memory and are very
tangible, practical, actionablethings that people can do.
In the past, lots of trainingwould spend a day or two days on
the theory and then maybe a dayon an exercise.
Well, that's fine if you havethree days and it might work for
some people.
But the more time that we'respent in kinesthetic learning,
(16:01):
where we're actually doing andpracticing and getting feedback
and creating those mental scarsthat benefit us, that's where
the maximum value is going to be.
But I think the converse ofthat, whilst we recognize that
resources and time are tight, isto think that you can get away
with building resilience on ashoestring.
It does require investment, itit does require time, and when
(16:25):
you start to cut the corners andfeel the pinch, then you'll
find that you're not achievingas much as you should be.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
And another thing that we found really helpful in
terms of maximizing the learningis actually the role of
real-time performance coaching.
So as teams come together, youwant to maximize value.
So having dedicatedprofessional performance coaches
in the room with you that helpyou to front load what you're
trying to achieve, you know bereally clear on what your aims
(16:51):
are.
So that notion of sort offeeding forward and looking at
what does good look like andthen we enter the perform phase
where we practice, we experience, and then the performance coach
can really help some of the keyleaders within the team reflect
and actually see just how wellthey did perform or what their
edges are.
And then you look ahead, you goagain.
(17:13):
So this idea of preparation andthen performance and then
review, facilitated byperformance coaches, is really
maximizing the experience andthen the benefit that clients
are getting.
Speaker 4 (17:25):
So in an exercise that we were involved in in 23,
andy, we saw the real benefit ofperformance coaching and the
force multiplying effect theyhad.
It was you, in fact, who wascoaching the incident command
team on this major exercise withseveral hundred people over
several days and you could seeit was visible to me as an
(17:50):
evaluator the effect that it hadon performance of the
individuals of the collective.
Clearly, as the incidentcommand team that sets the tone
and the strategic direction ofthose quiet conversations that
were not obvious unless you knewwhere to look.
But you could see thedifference it made to the
individuals, but the feedbackthat we got from that about how
(18:11):
powerful it was and much more wewant to do with that.
And this is the effect of oneperson in a particularly pivotal
role as a coach that can haveover the direction and quality
of the whole response.
So I think that's one of thosenuggets where there's a force
multiplying effect, wherethere's a real benefit, a
disproportionate impact, if youwill, of that role.
(18:34):
So I would encourage forexercises and training
engagements, looking ahead thisyear, that's one of the things
companies can think about.
How can I use a performancecoach in real time during an
exercise to accelerate thelearning, get the performance
levels up through those reallysubtle but incredibly powerful
(18:56):
conversations, and I think thisis the opportunity in 24 to
connect in some of the immersivetechnologies that are now much
more freely available to makethe virtual learning or online
learning environment morepowerful so that we can maximize
that face-to-face time.
But the pre-learning has hadthe impact that it can have in
(19:18):
the classroom and I think that'swhere we'll be doing some
innovation, can have in theclassroom and I think that's
where we'll be doing someinnovation, and we're already
talking with one of our clientspreparing for a major exercise
about how to do that, how tomake sure that before and during
the exercise we're maximizingthe time but we're creating the
situational awareness.
We've got that real visceralexperience happening.
So I think there's lots of goodwork to do there.
(19:41):
The other thing if I can buildon your part there, andy, and
around the impact of performancecoaching, was a gap that I'm
still seeing in the use ofeffective debriefing and after
action reviews and how stillthey can be seen as a little bit
of an afterthought.
People are tired, they've beenthrough it, they want to go home
(20:04):
and now attacking on thisdebrief and the after action
review, and it still feels likewe're missing a trick here, in
that all of the learnings 90 ofthem evaporate because we're not
capturing them in a systematicway or we're being still you and
to do it is better than to notdo it at all.
But I think we can be better,and the lazy approach of what
(20:28):
are three things that went welland three things that could have
gone better is exactly thatit's a little bit lazy, it's a
little bit contrived and itdoesn't really get down to the
depths of what are the two orthree things if we really focus
on will make us significantlybetter.
Speaker 3 (20:42):
Yeah, great point, great point.
And you know, as we run thoseafter action reviews, the
structure of that review and theskillfulness with which that
review is conducted is asimportant as anything we do
during the exercise as well.
So really important that thatis the focus and it's planned
for and it's delivered to areally high quality level,
(21:04):
because ultimately, that willtake and generate a lot of the
learning from the immersiveexperience and will equip you
with a roadmap of where you gonext.
So really important.
And I also think you made areally key point around the
learnings evaporating learningsevaporating.
So if we wait to the end toconduct an after action review,
(21:27):
we're just missing multipleopportunities throughout the
live event to catch people beinggood, so to speak.
When someone's done somethingwell, how do you generally feed
that back?
When things aren't working, howdo we capture that information
and, as timely as possible, howdo you feed that back into the
system?
And that can be done in manyways.
The advantage of feeding thatinsight real time back into the
system is that you can then feedforward and if, as a
(21:51):
performance coach, you noticethe clarity isn't there, you can
guarantee the alignment betweenthe different sections work
there.
So to point that out and feedit back in real time rather than
wait to the end of the exerciseis a much better approach.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
And we've talked quite a lot about incident
commanders.
In terms of crisis leadership,what are the trends for this
year?
What are the things that crisisleaders need to be thinking
about?
Dean, maybe this is one for you, given your podcast on
leadership.
Speaker 4 (22:22):
Has anything really changed?
Is there anything different in23 to 24 about what crisis
leaders should be thinking?
Speaker 2 (22:29):
about?
Yeah, that's an interestingquestion, emma.
So I think many of the themesthat were prevalent in 2023 are
still, as I touched upon in myoriginal podcast the fact we are
still in this crisis, thiscontinued period of uncertainty.
I think the pressure on crisisleaders is still very much there
(22:50):
.
So I guess it's this need tokeep working on their inner game
and how we think about ourplace in the world and how we
make sense of the world aroundus as leaders is absolutely
fundamental to how we ultimatelyproject ourselves in the world.
So I think there is still theneed to work on their own
development and their own innergame so that, should they be
(23:12):
required to step up and lead ina crisis, you know that you're
at moment they are more able todo that so, again, we come back
to this model of how do we helppeople crisis leaders to prepare
.
Speaker 3 (23:25):
But what does that actually look like?
So, in terms of preparation asa leader, how do you get
yourself ready in terms of whatskills you need and the
mentality that you need in orderto be calm, project clarity
when you get into theperformance phase as a leader,
what does good look like?
And then, ultimately, the thirdpart that we help crisis
leaders is reviewing their ownperformance, and that's how we
(23:47):
learn from pressure.
That's how we get better thenext time.
One of the things I wanted tosay about crisis leaders is a
lot spoken about the ability tohave empathy as a leader, and I
think, when you're in a crisis,one of your greatest strengths
as a crisis leader is to be ableto understand where your people
are, understand the impact ofmaybe the incident or crisis on
(24:08):
the local community.
So neuropathy is a key skill.
It's really important and thathelps you, as a crisis leader,
be transparent with your people,be transparent with regulators,
with the government, with thelocal community, and that, for
me, is all underpinned by can aleader be vulnerable?
And that ability to not beSuperman or Superwoman, and it's
(24:31):
really important that crisisleaders have that vulnerability
so they can connect to theirteam, so they create that
environment in the crisismanagement team.
She's psychologically safe,though, that people do bring
ideas, people do challenge.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
You mentioned not being Superman or Superwoman.
There is a constant pace ofchange.
As we've discussed a kind ofalways-on feeling, I guess in
2024, do you see moreorganisations focusing on
wellbeing and preventing burnout, or do you think that's still
work to be done in that area?
Speaker 3 (25:08):
Great question.
Ultimately, I think from ourexperience or my experience the
expectations of employees haveshifted over the last few years,
particularly in the area ofwellbeing and health.
Now we know and we understandthat if you're going to be part
of an incident and crisismanagement team, that can be a
demanding role.
So, in general, most peopleknow that, they know what
they're signing up.
However, this is something Ithink we need to take really
(25:29):
seriously in terms of how do weplan and prepare for wellbeing,
resilience of individuals andalso the collective team.
So there's lots of ways we cando this, but the first thing I
would say is we've got to takeit seriously because if we don't
, your next crisis can begenerated by your own culture
within your own incident crisismanagement team.
There are things that we can do, let's say, process-wise,
(25:53):
within the ICS structure, wehave the safety officer.
How do we build into that rolepotentially, so it becomes
something that's built intoprocess in terms of well-being?
How do we take in to that rolepotentially, so it becomes
something that's built intoprocess in terms of well-being?
How do we take time outs?
How do we create space withinthe ICS process, for example,
where we are consciously helpingthe mitigating of stress and
(26:14):
exertion.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
Dean when we were talking about disengagement.
How does that link into whatDanny spoke about potential kind
of future crisis coming fromyour own people?
Speaker 2 (26:25):
I think they're closely linked and I'm just
referencing, you know, some ofthe research that's come from
McKinsey and others about levelsof disengagement in the
workforce at large, in theglobal workforce, particularly,
you know, in some of thedeveloped parts of the world.
You know there's an alarminglevel, it appears, and sort of
disengagement and quiet quitting, I think was a popular term
(26:48):
last year and I think thosepeople are more susceptible to
burnout, you know.
So I guess it's really lookingat the workforce because there's
organizations who want to.
There's a massive competitionfor talent, isn't there globally
, various sector to sector.
But as Andy said in his lastpoint about expectations are
(27:08):
shifting.
So I think there's a so whatthere for organizations If you
want to attract and retain toptalent, people are increasingly
looking for what well-beingofferings they have, but also
actually in terms of supportingpeople in performing at their
best, both in a business asusual context, but certainly an
incident and crisis, how do theycome in in a state where
(27:29):
they're ready to perform?
And you know, I would say, ifthey're already disengaged,
they're more susceptible toburnout because they're less
connected to the organization,to their colleagues, which then
links back to an earlier pointdave made about the limitations
of virtual training.
If we do too much of it, I justwe don't build the same level
of connectedness, I think, withour colleagues, co-workers, that
(27:49):
we need.
So I think they're linked tohim.
To come back to your question,and I think it's interesting
where it goes, but I thinkcertainly the more
forward-thinking companies areincreasingly looking at
well-being and how do theyreally promote good well-being
and support their employeesbeing their best selves at work
so that, should an incident orcrisis emerge, they are truly
(28:10):
resilient from a humanperspective, not just assistance
perspective, to hopefullyweather that incident or crisis?
Speaker 4 (28:18):
We're about to work with a couple of different
clients on similar projectswhich, in my view, fit the bill
of being super high impact,super high value without being
super expensive, and I thoughtmaybe it's worth us talking
(28:39):
about those projects a littlebit to see if that plants any
seeds for people who are lookingto do something a bit more
creative, especially once theyfeel they've reached the
maturity in their systems andstructures and practice and
things are getting stale.
How do they add some oomph toit and really hit the next level
(28:59):
of performance?
So maybe, dean, if you go firstand talk about the progressive
work that you're about to godeliver to a client in the US.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
Yeah, thanks, dave.
So it's an exciting area, isn'tit?
Because, as you say, these aretypically very large national or
often multinational companiesthat have been doing this stuff
for a long time.
So actually they've gotstructure particularly really
well established.
They've got whether it's IMS ora variation of it, they've got
role cards, people really welltrained and rehearsed in those
(29:32):
respective roles.
Often skillset is also equallywell established.
So I think, increasingly, whenit comes to enhancing
performance, these companies arelooking at that mindset
component again that Andy spokeof.
So what I'm gearing up to dowith a client very soon is
really spend a day, a reallyimpactful day, looking
specifically at the role thatmindset plays in enhancing an
(29:56):
emergency response.
So we're going to spend themorning doing lots of really
impactful activities around.
What simple tools andtechniques can we as individuals
employ to ultimately be moreskillful under pressure?
We're then going to build thatup to what do operational
leaders need under pressure?
So, again coming back to some ofthe things that Andy mentioned
(30:17):
about, how do leaders bringclarity, lead decision making?
But they can only do that, ofcourse, if they're not
emotionally hijacked themselves.
So how do they access that bitof their brain, the executive
functions that allow us, ashuman beings, to make those good
, well-considered decisions, andthen ultimately spending some
time looking at the strategicleadership.
What do strategic leaders needand I touched a bit on this in
(30:39):
my earlier podcast, episode fouraround.
Strategic leaders are reallyworking in complexity, and how
do they work with the varyingstakeholders to manage the
polarities that ultimately theyget with complexity?
So the idea over the day is togive individuals, middle leaders
and senior leaders simple toolsand techniques which they can
(31:01):
deploy either pre-performance,during performance or
post-performance to maximizetheir performance when it
matters so the other thing thatwe've got in the pipeline, which
I think is really quiteinteresting, is that most of our
clients engage us for crisismanagement incident support.
Speaker 4 (31:21):
But we've got another major client who's looked at
that and realized the value itcan have in other situations
which are also high pressure andhigh consequence and fit many
of the criteria of a crisis, andthat's a client that's going
through the application processto develop wind farms.
(31:42):
So super high pressure, superhigh consequence situations that
they will be in when theproposed plans come under
significant scrutiny and theteams that are involved will
need to explain and justify andpotentially defend decisions in
(32:02):
potentially legal situations.
And so they've asked us to comeand work with those teams and
help with the mental skillstoolkit, because the
characteristics are the samedoesn't need to be a emergency
response type crisis to get thevalue out of the performing
under pressure composure toolsthat we deliver.
(32:22):
So I just thought that'sanother really interesting
project and the value of some ofthis stuff outside of the world
of crisis response.
Emma, you're going to beleading this particular
engagement.
What are you most excited about?
Speaker 1 (32:39):
Just seeing how the framework can be used outside
that crisis management context.
There are always, as we'vementioned, pressure moments and
you're very far from theemergency response people that
we would normally be training.
So how they will take thosetools and be able to apply them
to what they're doing, I thinkthat really excites me.
Speaker 4 (32:58):
And just taking our skill set that we've used in the
oil industry just that littlebit wider, so I think we've
talked a lot about what matureorganizations with established
structures, establishedprocesses, can do to get even
better.
But I've worked with a numberof clients in the past year and
(33:20):
hope to continue to do so nextyear.
They were at a much earlierstage of the development of a
crisis capability, and whatcontinues to be at play
something we see a lot is theworking up through the stages of
the complexity ladder.
So let me explain what thecomplexity ladder is.
(33:43):
Well, the complexity curve is abetter description.
So when an organization startsout, it has nothing.
You're at the bottom of thecurve and as you start to put
things in place, you put inplace a plan first, and then you
do some training and you have ateam, but you're still not
comfortable.
So the team then has an urgefor checklist, it needs a flow
(34:06):
chart, it needs a playbook, itneeds all the scenarios to be
defined and put in the appendix,and then you need technology,
because then you're not workingoff of whiteboards, you feel
like you're more comfortable.
You need all these aids.
So what you've done is you'veincreased the complexity without
really becoming any morecompetent, and then, as a team
continues to mature, they startto develop the confidence.
(34:28):
They've used this plan, they'veworked through the processes,
they've worked as a team a fewtimes in exercises, so they're
developing their confidence andnow they've got just a whole lot
of stuff in their system.
So they've still got the highcomplexity and the complexity
starts to get in the way becausethey're finding that they've
got a playbook that doesn't workfor the incident in that hand.
(34:50):
So there's the.
You're torn between do we usethe playbook?
Do we go off piste?
And that can create challenges.
So the more that the teampractices, the more experienced
they become, the more they canrecognize that extensive, over
complicated plans, processes,structures have their downsides
as well as their benefits, andthat's the moment that it clicks
(35:14):
for them.
Where they get the less is moremindset.
They can start then to be morereductive.
They can start to strip backthe plans, make them more simple
, make them less complicated,have fewer reporting lines,
fewer structures, fewer thingsthat get in the way.
And that's where we see thereally high performing teams get
to is that they recognize thatthe competence of the team is
(35:37):
disproportionately moreimportant than the volume of
bands and the complexity of thestructures.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
So it's how do you keep it really simple, keep it
actionable and train it in a waywhere it becomes innate, so
when they do need it, it takesno additional bandwidth in the
moment to call upon it, they canjust do it.
Speaker 4 (35:58):
The other thing I've seen a couple of times recently
and is one of my resolutions tomake sure that we don't fall
into the same trap is playingtoo easy during an exercise or a
drill, and what I mean is we'vehad really well developed
simulations with you, withreally well-qualified and
(36:20):
experienced people in thesimulation cell providing
injects that drive an exercise,and we feel like we've stretched
people.
But the feedback at the end ina couple of these has been you
could have done more.
You could have pushed us harderin media.
You could have made the humanaspects have pushed us harder in
media.
You could have made the humanaspects of this more challenging
(36:42):
for us.
You didn't need to safeguardour feelings.
You could have really pushed it.
And in those couple of occasionsthat I've seen and been part of
this year, whilst we thought wewere stretching, we weren't
pushing far enough, and thenobviously what that means is we
didn't get as many learnings out.
We didn't create the scars thatwe probably could have done,
(37:02):
and so the resolution for 24 isto really stretch people out
when we're designing anddelivering exercises, is to push
it as hard as we can and thenpush it a little bit further,
because what we've seen in thelast few months is that people
do want that.
They're ready, they want to bepushed.
So what was the best thing thatyou saw or did in relation to
(37:26):
high performing crisismanagement in the last year?
Speaker 3 (37:30):
the best thing I was involved with and witnessed last
year was monitoring a verylarge crisis management group
that had all flown in fromdifferent parts of the world and
being able to, at the end ofthe week-long training and
exercise, play back to themtheir physiological data about
(37:50):
the impact of those flights, thepressure of the week, the sleep
challenges and deprivation, andactually play back to them in
numbers, factually.
Here's what, as a group, youwent through and here's how your
body responded and why that wasso good is the insights it gave
people were incredibly usefulfor what they can do about it.
Speaker 4 (38:14):
Emma, what else have you seen in the last year?
What was the best thing thatyou saw?
Speaker 1 (38:18):
One of the things I was thinking about was the group
of people that we trained asRed to Blue coaches and actually
taking some individuals who hadno experience of the framework
at all through that journey tobe able to train on Red to Blue,
and it was a similar thing.
You know.
They started kind of knowing alittle bit about it, not really
getting it to light bulb momentsthrough that time and relating
(38:40):
to it and looking at it andseeing how they apply it in
their actual lives.
That was impactful.
How about you, dave?
Speaker 4 (38:47):
So I think one of the best things that I saw in 2023
was from a new trainer that'sworking with OSRL now.
He delivered for us a workshophalf a day on critical decision
making in high pressuresituation, and this was to a
(39:09):
group of highly experiencedprofessional responders, and I
saw the value of actuallybreaking down the mental
processes and the impact ofbiases on how critical decisions
are recognized and made by thisgroup, and subsequently have
(39:29):
seen a number of them put theirpractices and tools into
practice during responses duringday-to-day business, and the
feedback from those few hourshas been that it was super high
impact, super useful.
So for me, that was probablythe best, most impactful thing I
(39:50):
saw in 2023 was how do you takethat skill of decision making
and really buy some deliberatefocus on it, improve it for
people so that they can performbetter?
Speaker 2 (40:00):
I think it's the power of performance coaching A
simply trained butwell-positioned professional
who's there to give support, togive advice, to be that sounding
board, to be that criticalfriend, that mirror in the
moment, carefully timed feedbackthroughout, so that, again in
the moment, carefully timedfeedback throughout, so that,
again, in the spirit of gettingthe most from all of our
(40:22):
preparedness exercises, ratherthan wait till the end to give
lots of feedback, which is oftentoo much, people don't want to
hear it because they're alreadythinking about their trip home.
It's how do you do that?
Throughout the exercise itbecomes iterative.
Speaker 4 (40:35):
People are learning as they go, getting better,
better it's interesting thinkingabout how we've all focused on
people, as our best thing thatwe've seen and the most
impactful work that we've doneis all around building up the
competency and the performanceof people, and we've talked very
little about structures andplans and flowcharts and
(40:59):
processes, and I think that justgoes to underline our position
generally that less is more withplans and actually the
importance of a competent teamand highly performing
individuals is what will get anyorganization through uncertain
times and crisis situations.
So if I was to give one piece ofadvice to anyone asking on what
(41:23):
the focus for this year shouldbe, for me it's about making
sure whatever you do ispractical and high impact and to
make that more tangible for you, you, my strongest
recommendation is hold anexercise, evaluate what you have
and review, but do it all witha view to stretching and being
(41:48):
really honest about what youfind and what you're going to do
about it.
So that's my one piece ofadvice hold an exercise and have
a really honest review of whatit shows you.
Yeah, that's my one piece ofadvice Hold an exercise and have
a really honest review of whatit shows you.
Speaker 3 (41:59):
Yeah, I guess my one piece of advice would be to
broaden out what you consider tobe competence for an incident
and crisis management team,because it's easy to get stuck
on the processes we need tofollow.
Whilst that structure iscritical, I would encourage
everyone to broaden out and lookat competence in terms of the
(42:23):
structures and processes, skillsof the people, both technically
and behavioral, and then themindset and the well-being side
is critical as well.
So all three go togetherstructure, skill set, mindset I
think mine would be.
Speaker 2 (42:39):
We all need to keep working on ourselves so we are
never done, particularly thosein leadership roles.
I think it's really importantthat we keep looking at how do
we make sense of the world, howdo we show up in the best way
possible to get the best out ofthe people we have the privilege
to lead and work with, and usethe structures around you to do
that.
In-house leadership development.
(43:00):
External, use the resourcesaround you and you don't fall
into that complacency trap whereyou ever think you're done,
you've finished learning or it'sfor everyone else by you.
I think it's really importantthat leaders keep role modeling
humility, humility,self-awareness keep developing
themselves.
Speaker 1 (43:20):
I think now's the time to check your crisis comms
plans and make sure that you'vefully thought through technology
and the channels, etc.
Because everything changes sorapidly in communications, and
make sure that you know what thesort of one, two, three risks
for your individual company areand that your crisis comms are
aligned with that.
Thank you for listening to theResponse Force Multiplier from
(43:51):
OSRL.
Please like and subscribewherever you get your podcasts
and stay tuned for more episodesas we continue to explore key
issues in emergency response andcrisis management.
For more information, head toosrlcom.
See you soon.
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