In this episode, we join OSRL's performance coach, Andy Couch, as we uncover the training methods employed by the emergency response industry to excel under pressure. We examine the impact of immense pressure on individuals and organisations, uncovering training gaps and the pitfalls of reactive decision-making. However, we also uncover the potential for growth and learning within these stressful situations. Drawing inspiration from professional sports, we explore how techniques honed in athletic arenas can be effectively applied in emergency response scenarios. Discover how individuals and organisations can develop and implement these techniques to optimise their preparedness and response to crisis incidents and emergencies. Join us for a thought-provoking exploration of performance under pressure in the emergency response industry.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hello and welcome to the Response Force Multiplier, a
podcast that explores emergencyplanning and response.
On the Response ForceMultiplier, we bring together
compelling experts and thoughtleaders to provide a fresh take
on key issues and cutting edgetechniques.
In each episode we'll dive intoone aspect of emergency
(00:25):
planning and response and we'lluse OSRL's unique pool of
experts and collaborators togain new insights and to distill
these down into actionabletools and techniques for better
preparedness and response tocrisis incidents and emergencies
.
My name is Paul Kelway, we areOSRL and this is the Response
(00:45):
Force Multiplier.
In today's episode, we explorehow the emergency response
industry trains for performingunder pressure in real-world
situations.
In particular, we look at howimmense pressure on both
individuals and organizationscan expose gaps in training and
how that pressure can lead toless effective or reactive
(01:05):
decision making in emergencysituations.
But we also explore the idea ofusing those stressor situations
as teachable moments and, inparticular, we talk about how
techniques developed inprofessional sports can be
applied in emergency responsesituations and we look at how
these techniques can be used,developed and implemented by
both individuals andorganisations.
(01:26):
To do that, we speak with mycolleague, andy Couch, a
performance coach here at OSRL.
Andy is a former British Armyofficer who now works with
incident and crisis managementprofessionals to help them
develop and manage their ownstress responses to more
effectively perform underpressure.
Hi Andy, welcome to the show.
So to begin with, could youtell us a bit about your journey
(01:50):
and also what in particular youfocus on when you teach your
techniques to develop this moreeffective performance in high
pressure environments?
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Sure, yeah.
So my first decade was spent asa British Army officer.
I worked with soldiers andofficers through to special
forces and ultimately my job wasto help people to be able to
think clearly and make effectivedecisions when under pressure.
So primarily a leadership andperformance coach and a real
privilege to work with the menand women in the British Army.
(02:22):
So my second role the last nineyears I've been at OSRL, so Oil
Spill Response, working withall our leaders and teams,
specifically with theresponsibility to bring in the
performance under pressureprograms, helping our incident
managers to perform underpressure.
And equally, I also work withour members and external clients
(02:43):
, be that regulators or thegovernment, and help their
crisis management teams developthe mental skills and perform
when they really need to.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
So in episode one, we spoke to our colleague, dave
Rouse, and also Dr L Parker fromCoventry University about the
importance of meaningfullyexercising in the context of
crisis management, preparednessand emergency response, and that
was really about buildingresilience in individuals who
need to perform in these highpressure situations.
(03:13):
So in this discussion I wantedto go a bit deeper with that as
far as how we as individualscope with pressure and how we
can cultivate the right mindsetso we can ideally swim rather
than sink in those criticalmoments.
But before we get into some ofthe techniques and science
behind that, can you first takeus into the mind and body under
pressure?
What's going on physiologicallywhen people are in pressure
(03:37):
situations and how can thataffect our performance?
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Yeah, sure, and I think it's really important to
equip people with theunderstanding of what's
happening in their mind and body.
So, as well as helping themdevelop the skillfulness to be
able to work with their ownstress response, to understand
what's going on is key.
So if stress and pressureexists for us, we have a very
reasonable response in our bodyto an unreasonable situation.
(04:02):
Many people will be familiarwith the term the
fight-flight-freeze response.
It's hardwired into all of usand what that ultimately means
is when there is eitherexpectation or judgment or real
consequence in your environment,it's likely that that acts on
you as an individual and createspressure which triggers your
stress response.
(04:22):
And in this point, when we'refeeling pressure, our
sympathetic nervous system fires.
So that's our fight flightfreeze response.
We become full of adrenalineand cortisol, our heart rate can
increase, blood flow starts tomove around the body, and all of
that can be really helpful inorder to get high performance.
(04:43):
But too much pressure thatstarts to affect how we breathe.
The quality of our breath isreally important.
What that does to blood flow inthe brain and our limbic brain
becomes ultimately dominant.
It hogs the blood flow, it hogsthe oxygen.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
It means we have less ability to think clearly under
pressure and all sorts ofunpleasant feelings that you
might have, and it affects thequality of our thinking
ultimately so that's reallyhelpful in terms of
understanding what's happeningnaturally in our bodies which
may cause us to sink or swim inhigh pressure situations, and I
(05:20):
know that the science ofunderstanding how to work with
pressure has come a long way andI think it's fair to say a lot
of this has come from theprofessional sports industry.
So are there any real worldexamples of how this has been
applied in that context and madea difference?
Speaker 2 (05:37):
To give an easily relatable example, if you talk
about the New Zealand All BlacksReally successful rugby team,
they hadn't won a World Cup for20 years and in 2007, they were
the number one team in the world.
They were favourites to gothere and win it.
They choked, froze under thepressure and crashed out of the
(06:02):
World Cup.
And when you listen to the AllBlacks and their after-action
review of why they failed, theyspent all the time in the gym
working on the strength.
They spent all the time out onthe training field working on
the game management and actuallydidn't pay much attention to
their mental skills and realizedthey didn't like pressure and
(06:24):
that they didn't perform underpressure.
So they went away and theyworked with a chap called Kerry
Evans and they also had GilbertAnoka who was their mental
skills coach and he's actuallyvery recently started at Chelsea
Football Club so fascinated tosee his impact there and they
ultimately built a capabilityaround mindset, so the ability
(06:47):
to move towards pressure andperform both as individuals and
as a collective team.
And what's fascinating is overthe next two World Cups they won
back-to-back World Cups.
They have the highest successrate of any international rugby
team.
So mindset and the ability toperform under pressure.
(07:08):
That certainly played a keyrole within that.
Now, what I think is alsorelevant is the toolkit that
enabled that is something calledred to blue.
Amongst other things, it playeda key role in their success,
and that is also the mentalskills toolkit that we use here
at OSRL, but also with crisismanagement teams around the
world.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
That's a really great example and it's interesting
how the narrative shifted fromfocusing primarily on the
physical training to developingthat deeper understanding and
ability to have that mindsetthat you're needing to cope with
those high pressure situations.
And I know you mentioned thered to blue technique there.
But before we get into that,can we speak a little bit more
(07:49):
about the deeper underpinningsof what you're trying to access
with these techniques?
What are those states of mindthat we're trying to develop
that lead to better outcomes inthese stressful situations?
Speaker 2 (07:59):
So everyone's got the fight flight freeze and again,
it's really useful.
Useful, it activates us and itgets us ready to perform.
But when we need to thinkclearly, we need to access other
parts of our brain.
Which is really what we'retalking about is our prefrontal
cortex.
It's where our executivefunctions lie.
You know our logic, our reasonand I'll call it our blue brain
(08:23):
later on as we go through thisconversation.
So we need ways to be able toaccess higher quality thinking
and in order to do that, there'sall sorts of mental skills,
tools and techniques that allowsus to first have that survival
response and to recognize whenour redhead or the fight flight
(08:45):
freeze is in play.
It's normal, it's to acceptthat that's happening and then,
with increased skillfulness, wedevelop other ways of operating
under pressure.
We can walk towards thepressure and we have the
techniques and tools that we'vepracticed.
We know they work for us as anindividual and they help us to
(09:06):
lean in towards that pressureand ultimately think more
clearly, make better decisions.
Really key as a leader themessaging you give off when
under pressure.
So ultimately, you cannot notcommunicate the words you use,
the tone of language that youuse, your body language when you
(09:33):
have a real pressure response.
People feel that and, equally,what's fascinating is we have
something in our brain called amirror neuron, and mirror
neurons pick up and catch theemotions of those around us.
So, as a leader, it's criticalthat we can manage this stress
response and ultimately putyourself in what I will call a
resourceful state, a state thatyou can perform in, versus a
(09:53):
performance state that derailsyou, that takes you off task and
, if you are a leader, canalmost spread that kind of
contagion within your group aswell.
So you need a set of tools orpractices that allow you to
control that attentionUltimately, so that we're
focused on what needs to be done, we're able to maintain our
(10:14):
situational awareness and takeaction.
We have a whole suite of tools,very individual, so different
people find different tools thatwork for them, and our job is
to enable people to find theones that work for them,
practice them, experience whenthey work, experience when they
(10:35):
don't work, reflect on thatexperience of real pressure and
then keep embedding the toolslike a daily practice, a habit,
habit, and they know that theycan trust and the tried and
tested tools will work for themwhen they need them most.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
That's really interesting.
So, since this is at the coreof the trainings we're talking
about, could you break down thesteps that you train people in
when you're using thesetechniques?
What is it that you encouragepeople to do or pay attention to
, and what are the steps you layout for how to access these
states of mind?
Speaker 2 (11:09):
Well, what we encourage people to do is,
firstly, understand that theability to perform the pressure
is a skill and you can learnthat skill and you can get
better at it.
So it's not mystical.
It's not mythical.
We know that if you can controlyour attention and put it in
the right place, which is on thetask, we know that that is
helpful for performance.
How we do that?
(11:31):
We explain that we need to lookat this as a bigger picture.
So there are things you need todo before the pressure arrives
for you.
There are tools and techniquesthat you can use in the middle
of pressure, when things arereally crushing in on you.
And there are tools andtechniques that you can use in
the middle of pressure, whenthings are really crushing in on
you.
And there are tools andtechniques to use after pressure
to either learn from theexperience or to offload stress
(11:54):
in between operational periodsor in between pressure moments,
such that we can rest andrecover.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
OK, great.
So let's start with, beforethese high pressure moments, I
guess, some of the ways that wecan actually train and practice
to be ready for that pressureunderstand what creates pressure
for you as an individual.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
So is it when expectations are placed on you
from others, or maybe you placetoo much pressure and
expectation on yourself?
Is pressure created for youwhen you feel you're being
(12:34):
judged by others or we're oftenour own worst critic?
Is the pressure when the innercritic's in charge and
ultimately creating too muchstress for you?
Or is pressure created for youwhen you are worried about the
consequences of your actions?
You know when there are realworld consequences for what you
do.
So we'll work with people tofirstly understand what are the
(12:55):
levers that act on them andcreate pressure in terms of
expectation, scrutiny orconsequence, and we will coach
the individuals at that point,help them to see it differently,
to maybe reframe some of theirthinking around expectation,
scrutiny and consequence, andwhat that enables people to do
is to not have their attentionon what we call ESC, which is
(13:17):
ultimately unhelpful.
We allow them to notice thatthat's maybe affecting them, but
to deliberately shift theirattention back to the task, back
to the external world and what.
So I guess prime example is theway we breathe.
We'll equip the people withdifferent activities for
breathing.
Ultimately, it's so that we canget them to a place where they
(13:39):
breathe light.
They breathe slow, they breathedeep, because we know how that
affects our brains and ourbodies.
And so if we can help someoneto develop that skill and move
from chest breathing to bellybreathing through the nose, we
know what that can do for themand you build that muscle in
peacetime.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
Okay, so we're practicing these various
techniques and becoming moreaware of the ways that we can
calm our minds and bodies and toshift the place from where
we're operating in any givenmoment.
So what about, then, how we actand actually respond during
those moments of high pressure,when that intensity really hits
us?
Speaker 2 (14:19):
One of the very helpful tools we use is called
the circles of control.
So when we are under pressure,very helpful to control the
controllables.
And when you strip that rightback, all you can ever control
100% is ultimately how you useyour mind and what you do, so
your thoughts and your actions.
(14:39):
So we'll help people tounderstand, in various scenarios
that they may face, what couldbe some of those factors that
are outside your control thatyou could very easily get hooked
on and be triggered by and getstuck there, mentally focused on
those factors that are out ofyour control.
And helping people to see thattrain before it hits them is
(15:03):
very useful because next timethey might find themselves in
that situation, instead of thetrain coming along and hitting
them, they're able to see it,take a step back, the train goes
past and ultimately we focus onwhat we can control.
And when we're under realpressure, that might simply be,
in that moment, my breath.
All I can do now is just take afew breaths.
(15:24):
I might look around me, to myleft and my right there may be a
colleague.
I can see they're underpressure.
I could give them a word ofreassurance, but it's training
people to think what can Icontrol now?
So I might not know what'sgoing on, but I can go find some
information out.
I can control that and reallykeeping people in that space.
So there's a couple of toolsthere for preparation and
(15:46):
anticipation, the breath being agreat one, and equally helping
people to control theirattention through a tool like
the Circles of Control.
But when the pressure is reallycrushing in, you need a tool
that is so simple you don't needmore to do when you're under
pressure.
So any tool that we use thathas to work has got to be really
(16:08):
simple.
So in this moment the pressureis crushing on, we will invite
people to have a tool that helpsthem to make what we call the
red to blue shift.
And this is where, underpressure, instead of our stress
response taking over, we havesomething that allows us to snap
our attention back onto thetask.
So here's really simple stuffand it takes literally a couple
(16:31):
of seconds.
In the moment we're talkingabout trigger words that we use
with ourself.
So how we talk to ourselves, sowe almost command ourself to
focus, go back on task, or thetrigger word might be take a
breath, or we might, in thatmoment, feel ourself wanting to
escape the pressure.
(16:51):
So people might have practicedtheir red to blue shift, which
would be to almost grow a bittaller, you know, maybe expand
the shoulders, take a breath,try and center themselves in the
moment.
It might be, ultimately, thered to blue shift is commanding
yourself to focus again on whatyou can control, because you
realize you're getting hooked onall these factors that are
(17:14):
outside your control.
But what we encourage people todo is find a technique that is
really simple.
It can be really strange, aslong as it works for you,
because ultimately, all we needto have happen is that we get
our attention back onto the task, focusing what you can control,
and we find that handhold isjust enough to help people to
(17:38):
claw their way back and to copewith that intense pressure, as
it happens.
And then, as soon as they'vegot the focus on the task, we're
back onto our checklists, we'refollowing our processes and
that's really important whenwe're under pressure that you
have a way of commanding yourattention back onto the task.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
So that's the stressful part.
Can you speak now a bit moreabout the importance of recovery
, Because it's something thatyou give quite a lot of
importance to as part of thismore holistic approach to
training around this right?
Speaker 2 (18:13):
Yeah, and this recovery is often undervalued
and sometimes missed the amountof rest and recovery that we
need as humans.
You know we live in a reallybusy, stimulating modern world
and particularly through anyperiods of pressure, we know our
body and mind is activated andheightened.
It's absolutely critical thatwe can move from our sympathetic
(18:35):
nervous system thefight-flight-freeze and
transition into our rest anddigest our parasympathetic
nervous system.
That's really important that wedo that.
So how we offload stress, wehelp people to think about
different practices that workfor them, whether that's a form
of meditation or a breathingexercise to offload stress from
(18:57):
the body, whether it's amovement, for example, simple
things like going for a walk oroffloading with a colleague, so
having conversations with eachother as we finish the
operational period to offloadthe stress, but ultimately it's
enabling someone to be able tocalm that nervous system,
Because what's really importantwith rest and recovery is how we
(19:18):
sleep, which is obviouslycritical for high performance.
So that's on an individual level.
And then, in terms ofoffloading stress for a crisis
management team, it's reallyimportant that we think about
learning from pressure as agroup.
So we help people with theirafter action reviews to focus on
how did the group create anenvironment that's conducive to
(19:40):
high performance.
How did they maybe get in theirown way and create pressure
where it wasn't needed and then,as a group, help them to make
small steps to improve theskillfulness and focus on
performing under pressure as agroup, and we typically use the
after action review process toachieve that.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
So we've been talking here about preparing for,
performing in and recoveringfrom these critical acute
moments of pressure, which arepretty finite 90 minute football
or rugby game, an emergencyresponse.
But what is the link betweenworking with these acute
pressure moments and thenmanaging that pressure and
stress in a more ongoing,day-to-day way?
(20:19):
Because a lot of this seems tobe about being able to develop
more awareness of when our mindis actually getting in the way
and being able to use thosemoments to re-center, and that's
obviously a very valuable toolfor any moment in life.
And I guess, finally, whatwe're not saying and please
correct me, but we're not sayingemotions are bad and mind is
(20:41):
good, because a lot of gooddecisions, actions and also, of
course, come from our instinctand our gut feeling.
Is that right?
Speaker 2 (20:49):
absolutely.
As well as helping people toperform under the acute stress,
we also focus on long-termhabits of excellence.
We discuss things like fourpillars of how do people eat,
how do you sleep, how do yourelax, what stress management do
you use and how do you move inday-to-day life, because that
(21:16):
very much builds resilience, itmanages and promotes well-being
and both learning how to performunder pressure for acute stress
and with some of the skills weteach, but looking at the
longer-term view for long-termresilience and well-being.
They mutually support eachother and they're two activities
that we help crisis managementincident management teams to
think about and improve.
The first step, as you alludedto, is awareness to be aware of
(21:42):
our mind and body and wherewe're at in terms of our
performance states.
So we'll talk about a redheadand a blue head and we help
people to develop the awarenessof.
Talk to me what your redhead islike, what's your stress
response like, how do you feelwhen you're under stress?
What are some of the behaviorsyou might have when you're under
(22:04):
stress?
Teach me how you go.
Red is one of the commonquestions I'll ask people and
what that helps people to do isto understand.
Here's my stress response.
Get to know it, because inorder to be blue, we have to
first know when we're not.
So get to know your redhead,get to know your stress response
(22:24):
, get to know what sends you red.
Whilst that's a normal responseto pressure, it's not very
helpful in terms of performance.
So we need people to be able torecognize and be aware of their
redhead response but then, asyou rightly say, be able to
shift into a more resourcefulstate.
(22:44):
So that's where we have higheraccess to better quality
thinking, better decision, wehave more calmness and composure
, which you can project into theroom and help others to also
find their blue head, and allthat is about is where we place
our attention and focus.
It's really simple, but again,it is a skill that you have to
(23:08):
practice and embed into your wayof being so that you can rely
on it when real pressure is atplay.
And sometimes there's amisconception that the red head
is bad and that the blue head isgood.
That's certainly not what I'msaying.
Too much red can absolutelyderail performance, too much
(23:28):
blue and you can be far tooapathetic and not connected into
the task.
So it's certainly not aboutremoving emotion, and when we
are blue, we absolutely haveemotions present.
The difference when we are blue, though, is we are connected to
the task at hand.
We're connected, we feel intune with the task.
(23:51):
We trust that we've got this.
We trust ourself.
Tune with the task, we trustthat we've got this.
We trust ourself, we trust thepeople around us to follow the
processes, and the emotion andthe energy is absolutely there,
but it's through thisconnectedness.
Now, when we are red, we haveall sorts of different emotions,
but there is a disconnectedness.
(24:11):
You feel maybe edgy or anxious,or there's anger, and you don't
feel connected to the task.
So, the simplest way I can putthis and there's nothing
mythical about any of this whenwe are blue, we are connected to
the task and it is a doingwe're taking action task, and it
(24:37):
is a doing we're taking actionthat there is movement there,
but that is supported throughclarity and accuracy in our
thinking.
So, yeah, it's certainly nottrying to get rid of emotions
and, interestingly, when we takeour attention and place it
externally to our mind.
So, instead of being up in ourown head or focused on how
uncomfortable we might feelabout this situation, we train
(24:59):
ourself to place our attentionon the task.
It's external, and we askbetter questions of ourself like
what needs to be done, whatwould be a useful next step, and
ultimately we take action there.
So there's still emotions there.
We're just using them in a moreresourceful way.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
So you shared before an example from the environment
of professional sports, and justto expand a bit beyond that,
because even though they are, ofcourse, high pressure
environments, they are not amatter of life and death, of
life and death.
So are there also examples thatyou could point to where the
(25:37):
stakes are really that high andsomeone has been able to work
effectively with thesetechniques?
Speaker 2 (25:41):
Probably the best example that comes to mind is
Captain Sully and the Miracle onthe Hudson, and I think this is
a really good opportunity justto zoom out a little bit.
Obviously, my world is mindsetand helping people to perform
under pressure.
Obviously, my world is mindsetand helping people to perform
under pressure.
But mindset is one component ofthe performance OSRL.
We also help all our teams tothink about three areas
(26:04):
structure, skill set and mindset.
So structure is reallyimportant.
It's what allows, for example,crisis management teams to make
decisions under pressure.
But for Sully, the structuresthat himself and his co-pilot
were following, you know,they've got clearly defined
roles, They've got checklists tofollow and without that
(26:26):
structure, you can have as bluea head as you like, but you
ain't going to perform.
They also have the right skillset In aviation.
They talk about somethingcalled ANC.
So aviate, navigate,communicate.
So what that ultimately meansis fly the plane first, aviate,
get it to where it needs to be,navigate and then communicate
(26:47):
with each other and externalstakeholders.
Again, when you look at theMiracle, the Hudson skill set
was evident.
But what's fascinating when youlisten to Sully and you think
about the mindset piece, whenyou listen to Sully talk about.
When the bird strike hit theplane he had an immediate
survival response.
All the things we talk aboutreal sharp increase in heart
(27:11):
rate, his feeling of cognitivetunneling, where he felt his
attention field was reallynarrowing and that kind of
overwhelm was setting him.
He remembers feeling thisdoesn't happen to me.
So denial kicked in straightaway and that is the red brain
at play.
And again he recognized throughhis training that that was a
(27:32):
normal response.
But then the blue head startedto kick in and he started to say
things and ask questions ofhimself like as long as he can
solve this problem and he canfind a way to land this plane
probably not going to be at anairport, so long as he can solve
where that plane intersectswith the ground, then he
(27:54):
believed he could land thatplane.
And then he started to havethat clarity of thinking and
then all the structure, skillset and mindset all came
together and quite an incrediblepiece of piloting that is such
a brilliant example of how thesemindset techniques can actually
(28:15):
change an outcome in the realworld.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
So I'm curious in your work in the emergency
preparedness field, what haveyou found in terms of individual
and organizational resilience?
How have you found that,particularly in relation to
those who don't perhaps yet havethese mindset tools?
Speaker 2 (28:33):
Good question because ultimately, I had the privilege
of working with oil majors allover the world and if you use
the structure, skill set,mindset, you got fantastic
professionals, highly credible,so their structures are very
well embedded.
So we talk about the incidentmanagement system or incident
command system here.
(28:54):
Talk about the incidentmanagement system or incident
command system here.
The technology and IT fantasticsetup, so the structures are
very tight and very well drilled.
The skill set again, highlycredible people 20 to 30 years
experience in emergency orincident response, both
technically incredibly savvy andexperienced, but also
(29:15):
behaviorally as leaders and theability to communicate.
So what we found is that themindset has been the missing
piece ultimately.
And I think it's been reallyheartening when I've worked with
these groups because theyinstantly recognize their
performance gap, both on theacute side of the ability to
have the mental skills toperform under pressure, but
(29:42):
equally how they are helpingthemselves and their teams
develop resilience.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
And this is where we look at the wellbeing habits and
helping teams to also developthat Well, that's very
heartening to hear, and I guessit speaks to the excellent
training and resiliencystructures that are already in
place.
But of course, our wholeapproach here, or your whole
approach, is really to developeven stronger resiliency under
these intense situations.
Right, so can you talk a bitmore about the training that you
(30:05):
do and how you apply, inparticular, hyper-realism to
really give people this trueexperience of pressure?
Speaker 2 (30:12):
I guess one of the philosophical points here is
when, under real pressure or ina crisis, we don't rise to the
occasion, you fall to yourlowest level of training.
So the ability to prepare forand to practice being under
pressure, so that you build thatmuscle memory, you're automatic
and you already have theembedded skills, that's really
(30:34):
key to create hyper-realisticsituations.
Experiential learning thatreally gave people that visceral
feeling of pressure.
And I think one of the thingsyou try and do with helping
people to develop their mentalskills and pressure is get them
used to uncertainty.
And if you can dislocatesomeone's expectations of what's
about to happen, then you cancreate a real feeling of
(30:56):
pressure in pretty much anyscenario.
It has to feel real.
We run simulations, we create alearning environment which is
immersive.
It's experiential.
People have roles to play.
They're thrown into a scenariowhich can feel very real to them
and it can be challenging.
Thrown into a scenario whichcan feel very real to them and
(31:18):
it can be challenging.
And through those scenarios wesprinkle in one or two mindset
tools.
Here's a breathing technique.
Let's practice this.
Here's the circles of control.
Let's practice this.
We then immerse them in ascenario, allow them to practice
the tool or technique and aswell as then debriefing the
quality of decision making andhow the group functioned, we
(31:39):
also give space to debrief theeffectiveness or ineffectiveness
of that mental tool for theindividual.
So we take it and over a periodof a day or two or three we
will sprinkle the whole toolkitinto this training, giving
people the chance of findingthings that really work for them
and then practicing them Tokind of bring this to life.
(32:02):
One of the exercises we do,which is always insightful, is
we will wire a volunteer upthrough a little clip that clips
onto the ear and, in the nicestway possible, just put them
under a little bit of pressureso you can see their stress
response.
So they're wired up and on thebig screen behind them you can
see their heart rate but alsowhat's called your heart rate
(32:26):
variability, which is reallykind of the industry standard
for how you measure stressresponse.
So we might put them through alittle bit of a challenge and
you get to see their stressresponse on the screen, and then
we just teach them what we calla coherent breathing technique.
This is where the breathing islight, slow and deep.
For example, you inhale forfour seconds and you exhale for
(32:49):
four seconds and even after asmall series of breaths, you
notice a shift in the heart ratevariability.
We switch out of our fightflight freeze response and we
switch into the rest and digestresponse, and so the individual,
but equally the whole group,can see this playing out on the
screen and we invite everyone tojoin in that technique.
(33:12):
There's an instant commanderthat springs to mind that was
wearing the technology.
They are one of the mostcomposed and calm commanders
I've ever seen and that createda really wonderful environment
in the room, what I call a blueenvironment, projecting that
calm credibility.
And the group followed thatperson and mirrored that.
(33:33):
And what was interesting is,when you look, the physiology
was very calm.
So the heart rate was 60 beatsa minute and actually, instead
of being in the fight flightfreeze, this person was in rest
and digest.
You could see it through therhythms, which meant that this
person was actually in flow.
You know they were enjoying itand they were performing and
(33:54):
that really landed for the groupbecause we talk about you know
they were enjoying it and theywere performing and that really
landed for the group because wetalk about you know our inner
game runs our outer game, andwhat happens on the inside in
our mind and body shows up onthe outside in our behaviors and
actions.
So this stuff really mattersand if you can get insight into
your physiology and you can findways to keep that physiology
(34:15):
working for you and not againstyou, it has great effect both
for you but for the people thatyou're working with as well.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
That's great and it reminds me of how we continually
talk about the growth mindsetand how we're always learning,
preparing and developing asindividuals, but also as
organizations.
And also it helps reframe themindset that what we might
sometimes see as challenges ordifficult moments are actually
opportunities to learn, to growand to develop even stronger
(34:46):
resiliency in the future.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
Absolutely so how you think about pressure and this
is to your point, paul.
So how you think about pressureand this is to your point, paul
to start thinking that whenpressure is in the room,
actually it's an opportunity forme to perform, it's a challenge
for me to lean into and seewhere I can get, rather than
(35:09):
going.
This is threatful.
My fear response kicks in.
I actually want to get out ofhere, or we overcompensate and
we combust.
Rather than that, we get tothink of pressure as an
opportunity and it's not athreat.
And so helping people reframehow they think about pressure is
(35:31):
something that's reallyimportant and that is then
followed up, yes, with the toolsand technique.
So it's all about learning andit's all about helping people to
find just the small ways thatwork for them.
We can be very experienced atfollowing our decision-making
cycles and have lots ofknowledge and skill, but if you
(35:51):
succumb to pressure and if youdon't have the mindset skills,
then you can't guarantee thatthe structure and skill set will
be enough.
So bring that broad crisismanagement capability together
structure, skill set, mindset,and we can build that broader
capability.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
Thank you for listening to the Response Force
Multiplier from OSRL.
Please like and subscribewherever you get your podcasts
and stay tuned for more episodesas we continue to explore key
issues in emergency response andcrisis management.
Next time on the Response ForceMultiplier.
Speaker 3 (36:31):
AI could very much replace a large majority of the
tasks that humans do, but it hasthe capability to do that.
The big question is whetherhumans are going to trust it
enough to allow it to do that.
You could have a far moreeffective response if you just
handed over the reins to an AIand said you solve this spill,
and within seconds you'd haveall the paperwork completed and
(36:53):
it will be fired off and vesselswill be heading out to the
right location and it'd all beoptimized based on trillions of
scenarios that it's analyzed formore information, head to
osrlcom.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
We'll see you soon.
Hello and welcome to the Response Force Multiplier, a
podcast that explores emergencyplanning and response.
On the Response ForceMultiplier, we bring together
compelling experts and thoughtleaders to provide a fresh take
on key issues and cutting edgetechniques.
In each episode we'll dive intoone aspect of emergency
(00:25):
planning and response and we'lluse OSRL's unique pool of
experts and collaborators togain new insights and to distill
these down into actionabletools and techniques for better
preparedness and response tocrisis incidents and emergencies
.
My name is Paul Kelway, we areOSRL and this is the Response
(00:45):
Force Multiplier.
In today's episode, we explorehow the emergency response
industry trains for performingunder pressure in real-world
situations.
In particular, we look at howimmense pressure on both
individuals and organizationscan expose gaps in training and
how that pressure can lead toless effective or reactive
(01:05):
decision making in emergencysituations.
But we also explore the idea ofusing those stressor situations
as teachable moments and, inparticular, we talk about how
techniques developed inprofessional sports can be
applied in emergency responsesituations and we look at how
these techniques can be used,developed and implemented by
both individuals andorganisations.
(01:26):
To do that, we speak with mycolleague, andy Couch, a
performance coach here at OSRL.
Andy is a former British Armyofficer who now works with
incident and crisis managementprofessionals to help them
develop and manage their ownstress responses to more
effectively perform underpressure.
Hi Andy, welcome to the show.
So to begin with, could youtell us a bit about your journey
(01:50):
and also what in particular youfocus on when you teach your
techniques to develop this moreeffective performance in high
pressure environments?
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Sure, yeah.
So my first decade was spent asa British Army officer.
I worked with soldiers andofficers through to special
forces and ultimately my job wasto help people to be able to
think clearly and make effectivedecisions when under pressure.
So primarily a leadership andperformance coach and a real
privilege to work with the menand women in the British Army.
(02:22):
So my second role the last nineyears I've been at OSRL, so Oil
Spill Response, working withall our leaders and teams,
specifically with theresponsibility to bring in the
performance under pressureprograms, helping our incident
managers to perform underpressure.
And equally, I also work withour members and external clients
(02:43):
, be that regulators or thegovernment, and help their
crisis management teams developthe mental skills and perform
when they really need to.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
So in episode one, we spoke to our colleague, dave
Rouse, and also Dr L Parker fromCoventry University about the
importance of meaningfullyexercising in the context of
crisis management, preparednessand emergency response, and that
was really about buildingresilience in individuals who
need to perform in these highpressure situations.
(03:13):
So in this discussion I wantedto go a bit deeper with that as
far as how we as individualscope with pressure and how we
can cultivate the right mindsetso we can ideally swim rather
than sink in those criticalmoments.
But before we get into some ofthe techniques and science
behind that, can you first takeus into the mind and body under
pressure?
What's going on physiologicallywhen people are in pressure
(03:37):
situations and how can thataffect our performance?
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Yeah, sure, and I think it's really important to
equip people with theunderstanding of what's
happening in their mind and body.
So, as well as helping themdevelop the skillfulness to be
able to work with their ownstress response, to understand
what's going on is key.
So if stress and pressureexists for us, we have a very
reasonable response in our bodyto an unreasonable situation.
(04:02):
Many people will be familiarwith the term the
fight-flight-freeze response.
It's hardwired into all of usand what that ultimately means
is when there is eitherexpectation or judgment or real
consequence in your environment,it's likely that that acts on
you as an individual and createspressure which triggers your
stress response.
(04:22):
And in this point, when we'refeeling pressure, our
sympathetic nervous system fires.
So that's our fight flightfreeze response.
We become full of adrenalineand cortisol, our heart rate can
increase, blood flow starts tomove around the body, and all of
that can be really helpful inorder to get high performance.
(04:43):
But too much pressure thatstarts to affect how we breathe.
The quality of our breath isreally important.
What that does to blood flow inthe brain and our limbic brain
becomes ultimately dominant.
It hogs the blood flow, it hogsthe oxygen.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
It means we have less ability to think clearly under
pressure and all sorts ofunpleasant feelings that you
might have, and it affects thequality of our thinking
ultimately so that's reallyhelpful in terms of
understanding what's happeningnaturally in our bodies which
may cause us to sink or swim inhigh pressure situations, and I
(05:20):
know that the science ofunderstanding how to work with
pressure has come a long way andI think it's fair to say a lot
of this has come from theprofessional sports industry.
So are there any real worldexamples of how this has been
applied in that context and madea difference?
Speaker 2 (05:37):
To give an easily relatable example, if you talk
about the New Zealand All BlacksReally successful rugby team,
they hadn't won a World Cup for20 years and in 2007, they were
the number one team in the world.
They were favourites to gothere and win it.
They choked, froze under thepressure and crashed out of the
(06:02):
World Cup.
And when you listen to the AllBlacks and their after-action
review of why they failed, theyspent all the time in the gym
working on the strength.
They spent all the time out onthe training field working on
the game management and actuallydidn't pay much attention to
their mental skills and realizedthey didn't like pressure and
(06:24):
that they didn't perform underpressure.
So they went away and theyworked with a chap called Kerry
Evans and they also had GilbertAnoka who was their mental
skills coach and he's actuallyvery recently started at Chelsea
Football Club so fascinated tosee his impact there and they
ultimately built a capabilityaround mindset, so the ability
(06:47):
to move towards pressure andperform both as individuals and
as a collective team.
And what's fascinating is overthe next two World Cups they won
back-to-back World Cups.
They have the highest successrate of any international rugby
team.
So mindset and the ability toperform under pressure.
(07:08):
That certainly played a keyrole within that.
Now, what I think is alsorelevant is the toolkit that
enabled that is something calledred to blue.
Amongst other things, it playeda key role in their success,
and that is also the mentalskills toolkit that we use here
at OSRL, but also with crisismanagement teams around the
world.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
That's a really great example and it's interesting
how the narrative shifted fromfocusing primarily on the
physical training to developingthat deeper understanding and
ability to have that mindsetthat you're needing to cope with
those high pressure situations.
And I know you mentioned thered to blue technique there.
But before we get into that,can we speak a little bit more
(07:49):
about the deeper underpinningsof what you're trying to access
with these techniques?
What are those states of mindthat we're trying to develop
that lead to better outcomes inthese stressful situations?
Speaker 2 (07:59):
So everyone's got the fight flight freeze and again,
it's really useful.
Useful, it activates us and itgets us ready to perform.
But when we need to thinkclearly, we need to access other
parts of our brain.
Which is really what we'retalking about is our prefrontal
cortex.
It's where our executivefunctions lie.
You know our logic, our reasonand I'll call it our blue brain
(08:23):
later on as we go through thisconversation.
So we need ways to be able toaccess higher quality thinking
and in order to do that, there'sall sorts of mental skills,
tools and techniques that allowsus to first have that survival
response and to recognize whenour redhead or the fight flight
(08:45):
freeze is in play.
It's normal, it's to acceptthat that's happening and then,
with increased skillfulness, wedevelop other ways of operating
under pressure.
We can walk towards thepressure and we have the
techniques and tools that we'vepracticed.
We know they work for us as anindividual and they help us to
(09:06):
lean in towards that pressureand ultimately think more
clearly, make better decisions.
Really key as a leader themessaging you give off when
under pressure.
So ultimately, you cannot notcommunicate the words you use,
the tone of language that youuse, your body language when you
(09:33):
have a real pressure response.
People feel that and, equally,what's fascinating is we have
something in our brain called amirror neuron, and mirror
neurons pick up and catch theemotions of those around us.
So, as a leader, it's criticalthat we can manage this stress
response and ultimately putyourself in what I will call a
resourceful state, a state thatyou can perform in, versus a
(09:53):
performance state that derailsyou, that takes you off task and
, if you are a leader, canalmost spread that kind of
contagion within your group aswell.
So you need a set of tools orpractices that allow you to
control that attentionUltimately, so that we're
focused on what needs to be done, we're able to maintain our
(10:14):
situational awareness and takeaction.
We have a whole suite of tools,very individual, so different
people find different tools thatwork for them, and our job is
to enable people to find theones that work for them,
practice them, experience whenthey work, experience when they
(10:35):
don't work, reflect on thatexperience of real pressure and
then keep embedding the toolslike a daily practice, a habit,
habit, and they know that theycan trust and the tried and
tested tools will work for themwhen they need them most.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
That's really interesting.
So, since this is at the coreof the trainings we're talking
about, could you break down thesteps that you train people in
when you're using thesetechniques?
What is it that you encouragepeople to do or pay attention to
, and what are the steps you layout for how to access these
states of mind?
Speaker 2 (11:09):
Well, what we encourage people to do is,
firstly, understand that theability to perform the pressure
is a skill and you can learnthat skill and you can get
better at it.
So it's not mystical.
It's not mythical.
We know that if you can controlyour attention and put it in
the right place, which is on thetask, we know that that is
helpful for performance.
How we do that?
(11:31):
We explain that we need to lookat this as a bigger picture.
So there are things you need todo before the pressure arrives
for you.
There are tools and techniquesthat you can use in the middle
of pressure, when things arereally crushing in on you.
And there are tools andtechniques that you can use in
the middle of pressure, whenthings are really crushing in on
you.
And there are tools andtechniques to use after pressure
to either learn from theexperience or to offload stress
(11:54):
in between operational periodsor in between pressure moments,
such that we can rest andrecover.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
OK, great.
So let's start with, beforethese high pressure moments, I
guess, some of the ways that wecan actually train and practice
to be ready for that pressureunderstand what creates pressure
for you as an individual.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
So is it when expectations are placed on you
from others, or maybe you placetoo much pressure and
expectation on yourself?
Is pressure created for youwhen you feel you're being
(12:34):
judged by others or we're oftenour own worst critic?
Is the pressure when the innercritic's in charge and
ultimately creating too muchstress for you?
Or is pressure created for youwhen you are worried about the
consequences of your actions?
You know when there are realworld consequences for what you
do.
So we'll work with people tofirstly understand what are the
(12:55):
levers that act on them andcreate pressure in terms of
expectation, scrutiny orconsequence, and we will coach
the individuals at that point,help them to see it differently,
to maybe reframe some of theirthinking around expectation,
scrutiny and consequence, andwhat that enables people to do
is to not have their attentionon what we call ESC, which is
(13:17):
ultimately unhelpful.
We allow them to notice thatthat's maybe affecting them, but
to deliberately shift theirattention back to the task, back
to the external world and what.
So I guess prime example is theway we breathe.
We'll equip the people withdifferent activities for
breathing.
Ultimately, it's so that we canget them to a place where they
(13:39):
breathe light.
They breathe slow, they breathedeep, because we know how that
affects our brains and ourbodies.
And so if we can help someoneto develop that skill and move
from chest breathing to bellybreathing through the nose, we
know what that can do for themand you build that muscle in
peacetime.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
Okay, so we're practicing these various
techniques and becoming moreaware of the ways that we can
calm our minds and bodies and toshift the place from where
we're operating in any givenmoment.
So what about, then, how we actand actually respond during
those moments of high pressure,when that intensity really hits
us?
Speaker 2 (14:19):
One of the very helpful tools we use is called
the circles of control.
So when we are under pressure,very helpful to control the
controllables.
And when you strip that rightback, all you can ever control
100% is ultimately how you useyour mind and what you do, so
your thoughts and your actions.
(14:39):
So we'll help people tounderstand, in various scenarios
that they may face, what couldbe some of those factors that
are outside your control thatyou could very easily get hooked
on and be triggered by and getstuck there, mentally focused on
those factors that are out ofyour control.
And helping people to see thattrain before it hits them is
(15:03):
very useful because next timethey might find themselves in
that situation, instead of thetrain coming along and hitting
them, they're able to see it,take a step back, the train goes
past and ultimately we focus onwhat we can control.
And when we're under realpressure, that might simply be,
in that moment, my breath.
All I can do now is just take afew breaths.
(15:24):
I might look around me, to myleft and my right there may be a
colleague.
I can see they're underpressure.
I could give them a word ofreassurance, but it's training
people to think what can Icontrol now?
So I might not know what'sgoing on, but I can go find some
information out.
I can control that and reallykeeping people in that space.
So there's a couple of toolsthere for preparation and
(15:46):
anticipation, the breath being agreat one, and equally helping
people to control theirattention through a tool like
the Circles of Control.
But when the pressure is reallycrushing in, you need a tool
that is so simple you don't needmore to do when you're under
pressure.
So any tool that we use thathas to work has got to be really
(16:08):
simple.
So in this moment the pressureis crushing on, we will invite
people to have a tool that helpsthem to make what we call the
red to blue shift.
And this is where, underpressure, instead of our stress
response taking over, we havesomething that allows us to snap
our attention back onto thetask.
So here's really simple stuffand it takes literally a couple
(16:31):
of seconds.
In the moment we're talkingabout trigger words that we use
with ourself.
So how we talk to ourselves, sowe almost command ourself to
focus, go back on task, or thetrigger word might be take a
breath, or we might, in thatmoment, feel ourself wanting to
escape the pressure.
(16:51):
So people might have practicedtheir red to blue shift, which
would be to almost grow a bittaller, you know, maybe expand
the shoulders, take a breath,try and center themselves in the
moment.
It might be, ultimately, thered to blue shift is commanding
yourself to focus again on whatyou can control, because you
realize you're getting hooked onall these factors that are
(17:14):
outside your control.
But what we encourage people todo is find a technique that is
really simple.
It can be really strange, aslong as it works for you,
because ultimately, all we needto have happen is that we get
our attention back onto the task, focusing what you can control,
and we find that handhold isjust enough to help people to
(17:38):
claw their way back and to copewith that intense pressure, as
it happens.
And then, as soon as they'vegot the focus on the task, we're
back onto our checklists, we'refollowing our processes and
that's really important whenwe're under pressure that you
have a way of commanding yourattention back onto the task.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
So that's the stressful part.
Can you speak now a bit moreabout the importance of recovery
, Because it's something thatyou give quite a lot of
importance to as part of thismore holistic approach to
training around this right?
Speaker 2 (18:13):
Yeah, and this recovery is often undervalued
and sometimes missed the amountof rest and recovery that we
need as humans.
You know we live in a reallybusy, stimulating modern world
and particularly through anyperiods of pressure, we know our
body and mind is activated andheightened.
It's absolutely critical thatwe can move from our sympathetic
(18:35):
nervous system thefight-flight-freeze and
transition into our rest anddigest our parasympathetic
nervous system.
That's really important that wedo that.
So how we offload stress, wehelp people to think about
different practices that workfor them, whether that's a form
of meditation or a breathingexercise to offload stress from
(18:57):
the body, whether it's amovement, for example, simple
things like going for a walk oroffloading with a colleague, so
having conversations with eachother as we finish the
operational period to offloadthe stress, but ultimately it's
enabling someone to be able tocalm that nervous system,
Because what's really importantwith rest and recovery is how we
(19:18):
sleep, which is obviouslycritical for high performance.
So that's on an individual level.
And then, in terms ofoffloading stress for a crisis
management team, it's reallyimportant that we think about
learning from pressure as agroup.
So we help people with theirafter action reviews to focus on
how did the group create anenvironment that's conducive to
(19:40):
high performance.
How did they maybe get in theirown way and create pressure
where it wasn't needed and then,as a group, help them to make
small steps to improve theskillfulness and focus on
performing under pressure as agroup, and we typically use the
after action review process toachieve that.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
So we've been talking here about preparing for,
performing in and recoveringfrom these critical acute
moments of pressure, which arepretty finite 90 minute football
or rugby game, an emergencyresponse.
But what is the link betweenworking with these acute
pressure moments and thenmanaging that pressure and
stress in a more ongoing,day-to-day way?
(20:19):
Because a lot of this seems tobe about being able to develop
more awareness of when our mindis actually getting in the way
and being able to use thosemoments to re-center, and that's
obviously a very valuable toolfor any moment in life.
And I guess, finally, whatwe're not saying and please
correct me, but we're not sayingemotions are bad and mind is
(20:41):
good, because a lot of gooddecisions, actions and also, of
course, come from our instinctand our gut feeling.
Is that right?
Speaker 2 (20:49):
absolutely.
As well as helping people toperform under the acute stress,
we also focus on long-termhabits of excellence.
We discuss things like fourpillars of how do people eat,
how do you sleep, how do yourelax, what stress management do
you use and how do you move inday-to-day life, because that
(21:16):
very much builds resilience, itmanages and promotes well-being
and both learning how to performunder pressure for acute stress
and with some of the skills weteach, but looking at the
longer-term view for long-termresilience and well-being.
They mutually support eachother and they're two activities
that we help crisis managementincident management teams to
think about and improve.
The first step, as you alludedto, is awareness to be aware of
(21:42):
our mind and body and wherewe're at in terms of our
performance states.
So we'll talk about a redheadand a blue head and we help
people to develop the awarenessof.
Talk to me what your redhead islike, what's your stress
response like, how do you feelwhen you're under stress?
What are some of the behaviorsyou might have when you're under
(22:04):
stress?
Teach me how you go.
Red is one of the commonquestions I'll ask people and
what that helps people to do isto understand.
Here's my stress response.
Get to know it, because inorder to be blue, we have to
first know when we're not.
So get to know your redhead,get to know your stress response
(22:24):
, get to know what sends you red.
Whilst that's a normal responseto pressure, it's not very
helpful in terms of performance.
So we need people to be able torecognize and be aware of their
redhead response but then, asyou rightly say, be able to
shift into a more resourcefulstate.
(22:44):
So that's where we have higheraccess to better quality
thinking, better decision, wehave more calmness and composure
, which you can project into theroom and help others to also
find their blue head, and allthat is about is where we place
our attention and focus.
It's really simple, but again,it is a skill that you have to
(23:08):
practice and embed into your wayof being so that you can rely
on it when real pressure is atplay.
And sometimes there's amisconception that the red head
is bad and that the blue head isgood.
That's certainly not what I'msaying.
Too much red can absolutelyderail performance, too much
(23:28):
blue and you can be far tooapathetic and not connected into
the task.
So it's certainly not aboutremoving emotion, and when we
are blue, we absolutely haveemotions present.
The difference when we are blue, though, is we are connected to
the task at hand.
We're connected, we feel intune with the task.
(23:51):
We trust that we've got this.
We trust ourself.
Tune with the task, we trustthat we've got this.
We trust ourself, we trust thepeople around us to follow the
processes, and the emotion andthe energy is absolutely there,
but it's through thisconnectedness.
Now, when we are red, we haveall sorts of different emotions,
but there is a disconnectedness.
(24:11):
You feel maybe edgy or anxious,or there's anger, and you don't
feel connected to the task.
So, the simplest way I can putthis and there's nothing
mythical about any of this whenwe are blue, we are connected to
the task and it is a doingwe're taking action task, and it
(24:37):
is a doing we're taking actionthat there is movement there,
but that is supported throughclarity and accuracy in our
thinking.
So, yeah, it's certainly nottrying to get rid of emotions
and, interestingly, when we takeour attention and place it
externally to our mind.
So, instead of being up in ourown head or focused on how
uncomfortable we might feelabout this situation, we train
(24:59):
ourself to place our attentionon the task.
It's external, and we askbetter questions of ourself like
what needs to be done, whatwould be a useful next step, and
ultimately we take action there.
So there's still emotions there.
We're just using them in a moreresourceful way.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
So you shared before an example from the environment
of professional sports, and justto expand a bit beyond that,
because even though they are, ofcourse, high pressure
environments, they are not amatter of life and death, of
life and death.
So are there also examples thatyou could point to where the
(25:37):
stakes are really that high andsomeone has been able to work
effectively with thesetechniques?
Speaker 2 (25:41):
Probably the best example that comes to mind is
Captain Sully and the Miracle onthe Hudson, and I think this is
a really good opportunity justto zoom out a little bit.
Obviously, my world is mindsetand helping people to perform
under pressure.
Obviously, my world is mindsetand helping people to perform
under pressure.
But mindset is one component ofthe performance OSRL.
We also help all our teams tothink about three areas
(26:04):
structure, skill set and mindset.
So structure is reallyimportant.
It's what allows, for example,crisis management teams to make
decisions under pressure.
But for Sully, the structuresthat himself and his co-pilot
were following, you know,they've got clearly defined
roles, They've got checklists tofollow and without that
(26:26):
structure, you can have as bluea head as you like, but you
ain't going to perform.
They also have the right skillset In aviation.
They talk about somethingcalled ANC.
So aviate, navigate,communicate.
So what that ultimately meansis fly the plane first, aviate,
get it to where it needs to be,navigate and then communicate
(26:47):
with each other and externalstakeholders.
Again, when you look at theMiracle, the Hudson skill set
was evident.
But what's fascinating when youlisten to Sully and you think
about the mindset piece, whenyou listen to Sully talk about.
When the bird strike hit theplane he had an immediate
survival response.
All the things we talk aboutreal sharp increase in heart
(27:11):
rate, his feeling of cognitivetunneling, where he felt his
attention field was reallynarrowing and that kind of
overwhelm was setting him.
He remembers feeling thisdoesn't happen to me.
So denial kicked in straightaway and that is the red brain
at play.
And again he recognized throughhis training that that was a
(27:32):
normal response.
But then the blue head startedto kick in and he started to say
things and ask questions ofhimself like as long as he can
solve this problem and he canfind a way to land this plane
probably not going to be at anairport, so long as he can solve
where that plane intersectswith the ground, then he
(27:54):
believed he could land thatplane.
And then he started to havethat clarity of thinking and
then all the structure, skillset and mindset all came
together and quite an incrediblepiece of piloting that is such
a brilliant example of how thesemindset techniques can actually
(28:15):
change an outcome in the realworld.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
So I'm curious in your work in the emergency
preparedness field, what haveyou found in terms of individual
and organizational resilience?
How have you found that,particularly in relation to
those who don't perhaps yet havethese mindset tools?
Speaker 2 (28:33):
Good question because ultimately, I had the privilege
of working with oil majors allover the world and if you use
the structure, skill set,mindset, you got fantastic
professionals, highly credible,so their structures are very
well embedded.
So we talk about the incidentmanagement system or incident
command system here.
(28:54):
Talk about the incidentmanagement system or incident
command system here.
The technology and IT fantasticsetup, so the structures are
very tight and very well drilled.
The skill set again, highlycredible people 20 to 30 years
experience in emergency orincident response, both
technically incredibly savvy andexperienced, but also
(29:15):
behaviorally as leaders and theability to communicate.
So what we found is that themindset has been the missing
piece ultimately.
And I think it's been reallyheartening when I've worked with
these groups because theyinstantly recognize their
performance gap, both on theacute side of the ability to
have the mental skills toperform under pressure, but
(29:42):
equally how they are helpingthemselves and their teams
develop resilience.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
And this is where we look at the wellbeing habits and
helping teams to also developthat Well, that's very
heartening to hear, and I guessit speaks to the excellent
training and resiliencystructures that are already in
place.
But of course, our wholeapproach here, or your whole
approach, is really to developeven stronger resiliency under
these intense situations.
Right, so can you talk a bitmore about the training that you
(30:05):
do and how you apply, inparticular, hyper-realism to
really give people this trueexperience of pressure?
Speaker 2 (30:12):
I guess one of the philosophical points here is
when, under real pressure or ina crisis, we don't rise to the
occasion, you fall to yourlowest level of training.
So the ability to prepare forand to practice being under
pressure, so that you build thatmuscle memory, you're automatic
and you already have theembedded skills, that's really
(30:34):
key to create hyper-realisticsituations.
Experiential learning thatreally gave people that visceral
feeling of pressure.
And I think one of the thingsyou try and do with helping
people to develop their mentalskills and pressure is get them
used to uncertainty.
And if you can dislocatesomeone's expectations of what's
about to happen, then you cancreate a real feeling of
(30:56):
pressure in pretty much anyscenario.
It has to feel real.
We run simulations, we create alearning environment which is
immersive.
It's experiential.
People have roles to play.
They're thrown into a scenariowhich can feel very real to them
and it can be challenging.
Thrown into a scenario whichcan feel very real to them and
(31:18):
it can be challenging.
And through those scenarios wesprinkle in one or two mindset
tools.
Here's a breathing technique.
Let's practice this.
Here's the circles of control.
Let's practice this.
We then immerse them in ascenario, allow them to practice
the tool or technique and aswell as then debriefing the
quality of decision making andhow the group functioned, we
(31:39):
also give space to debrief theeffectiveness or ineffectiveness
of that mental tool for theindividual.
So we take it and over a periodof a day or two or three we
will sprinkle the whole toolkitinto this training, giving
people the chance of findingthings that really work for them
and then practicing them Tokind of bring this to life.
(32:02):
One of the exercises we do,which is always insightful, is
we will wire a volunteer upthrough a little clip that clips
onto the ear and, in the nicestway possible, just put them
under a little bit of pressureso you can see their stress
response.
So they're wired up and on thebig screen behind them you can
see their heart rate but alsowhat's called your heart rate
(32:26):
variability, which is reallykind of the industry standard
for how you measure stressresponse.
So we might put them through alittle bit of a challenge and
you get to see their stressresponse on the screen, and then
we just teach them what we calla coherent breathing technique.
This is where the breathing islight, slow and deep.
For example, you inhale forfour seconds and you exhale for
(32:49):
four seconds and even after asmall series of breaths, you
notice a shift in the heart ratevariability.
We switch out of our fightflight freeze response and we
switch into the rest and digestresponse, and so the individual,
but equally the whole group,can see this playing out on the
screen and we invite everyone tojoin in that technique.
(33:12):
There's an instant commanderthat springs to mind that was
wearing the technology.
They are one of the mostcomposed and calm commanders
I've ever seen and that createda really wonderful environment
in the room, what I call a blueenvironment, projecting that
calm credibility.
And the group followed thatperson and mirrored that.
(33:33):
And what was interesting is,when you look, the physiology
was very calm.
So the heart rate was 60 beatsa minute and actually, instead
of being in the fight flightfreeze, this person was in rest
and digest.
You could see it through therhythms, which meant that this
person was actually in flow.
You know they were enjoying itand they were performing and
(33:54):
that really landed for the groupbecause we talk about you know
they were enjoying it and theywere performing and that really
landed for the group because wetalk about you know our inner
game runs our outer game, andwhat happens on the inside in
our mind and body shows up onthe outside in our behaviors and
actions.
So this stuff really mattersand if you can get insight into
your physiology and you can findways to keep that physiology
(34:15):
working for you and not againstyou, it has great effect both
for you but for the people thatyou're working with as well.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
That's great and it reminds me of how we continually
talk about the growth mindsetand how we're always learning,
preparing and developing asindividuals, but also as
organizations.
And also it helps reframe themindset that what we might
sometimes see as challenges ordifficult moments are actually
opportunities to learn, to growand to develop even stronger
(34:46):
resiliency in the future.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
Absolutely so how you think about pressure and this
is to your point, paul.
So how you think about pressureand this is to your point, paul
to start thinking that whenpressure is in the room,
actually it's an opportunity forme to perform, it's a challenge
for me to lean into and seewhere I can get, rather than
(35:09):
going.
This is threatful.
My fear response kicks in.
I actually want to get out ofhere, or we overcompensate and
we combust.
Rather than that, we get tothink of pressure as an
opportunity and it's not athreat.
And so helping people reframehow they think about pressure is
(35:31):
something that's reallyimportant and that is then
followed up, yes, with the toolsand technique.
So it's all about learning andit's all about helping people to
find just the small ways thatwork for them.
We can be very experienced atfollowing our decision-making
cycles and have lots ofknowledge and skill, but if you
(35:51):
succumb to pressure and if youdon't have the mindset skills,
then you can't guarantee thatthe structure and skill set will
be enough.
So bring that broad crisismanagement capability together
structure, skill set, mindset,and we can build that broader
capability.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
Thank you for listening to the Response Force
Multiplier from OSRL.
Please like and subscribewherever you get your podcasts
and stay tuned for more episodesas we continue to explore key
issues in emergency response andcrisis management.
Next time on the Response ForceMultiplier.
Speaker 3 (36:31):
AI could very much replace a large majority of the
tasks that humans do, but it hasthe capability to do that.
The big question is whetherhumans are going to trust it
enough to allow it to do that.
You could have a far moreeffective response if you just
handed over the reins to an AIand said you solve this spill,
and within seconds you'd haveall the paperwork completed and
(36:53):
it will be fired off and vesselswill be heading out to the
right location and it'd all beoptimized based on trillions of
scenarios that it's analyzed formore information, head to
osrlcom.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
We'll see you soon.
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