April 14, 2025 • 36 mins
What happens when two veteran real estate agents with nearly four decades of combined experience sit down to discuss how meditation transforms their approach to this demanding profession? The answer is a profound conversation that pulls back the curtain on both the challenges and opportunities of bringing mindfulness practices into a commission-based career.
Steve Matsumoto brings 19 years of California real estate wisdom to this discussion, sharing how he transitioned from classroom teacher to real estate professional just before the 2008 recession hit. His journey into mindfulness wasn't immediate – it emerged about seven years into his career as he recognized the need for better mental tools to handle what he calls the "roller coaster" nature of the business.
The conversation dives into real estate's unique stressors: the challenge of earning a first client's trust, the uncertainty of when business will materialize (sometimes taking years), and the emotional weight of representing clients through major life transitions. Both agents share candid insights about how meditation helps them avoid becoming "drama amplifiers" during difficult transactions, staying present with clients while maintaining the professional perspective needed to navigate challenges effectively.
Perhaps most valuably, Steve offers perspective gained from facing his worst fears during the housing crisis – a practice that built remarkable resilience and clarity about what truly matters. He reflects on how meditation helped him prioritize family and develop consistency through market fluctuations, offering advice to newer agents about sustainability in this demanding career.
This conversation isn't about achieving meditation mastery but rather bringing moments of presence throughout your day that transform how you communicate with clients, other agents, and yourself. For real estate professionals seeking both success and wellbeing, this episode delivers practical wisdom about using mindfulness to create what Steve beautifully defines as a truly "rich life" – having autonomy over your time to create meaningful experiences with those who matter most.
You can find me on instagram @rested.real.estate.agent, and you can sign up for my newsletter to keep up with upcoming workshops and other offerings on my website www.suminabhatti.com.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to today's episode of the Rested and Rich
Real Estate Agent, a podcastthat helps you navigate life as
a real estate agent, whilefinding some rest and balance
along the way.
I'm your host, sumina, anactive real estate agent with 18
years of experience in theAustin, texas market, and I'm
also a certified meditationteacher.
(00:22):
This podcast was specificallycreated for real estate agents'
brains to learn how to managethe stress and anxiety of our
industry, and today I am soexcited to present my first
guest podcast with SteveMatsumoto.
You'll learn more about Stevethrough our conversation, but I
thoroughly enjoy getting to knowhow a fellow real estate agent
(00:44):
incorporates mindfulness intotheir business.
We talk about some of thechallenges in real estate the
difficulty of earning trust as anew agent, the uncertainty of
income and commissions, theroller coaster nature of this
business, as Steve puts it, andsometimes relationships that you
build in real estate can takeyears to turn into actual
business.
(01:04):
We also discuss, obviously, thebenefits of meditation and
mindfulness help manage theemotional aspects of this
profession, how those practiceshelp us to stay present with
challenging transactions andclients who are stressed, and
how we're better able torepresent our client when
dealing with other agents aswell.
We also get a little bit intoadvice that Steve has for new
(01:26):
agents as a veteran agent withalmost two decades under his
belt.
That was some great, valuableadvice that Steve shared with us
.
I hope you'll find it useful aswell.
And then, of course, we talkabout what makes a rich life for
Steve.
As we pay tribute to the nameof this podcast, steve also gets
personal with us and shares alittle bit about the very
(01:46):
personal difficulties he facedback when he got into the
business in 2008 when a greatrecession was hitting.
So I hope you'll enjoy thisconversation as much as I did.
Thank you again for joining meon the Arrested Real Estate
Agent.
Good morning.
I am excited today to haveSteve Matamoto from Carlsbad,
(02:08):
california, as my first guest onthis podcast.
Steve has been in real estatefor 19 years and we kind of
struck up a conversationregarding mindfulness and
meditation and how it's helpedour practice in real estate, so
I figured Steve would be a greatguest to have on the podcast,
(02:28):
as it feeds into our theme ofbeing rested and rich in real
estate.
So welcome Steve.
Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Well, no, thank you, and I didn't know that I was the
first, so very, very honored tohave that position.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
Hence all the tech issues.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
We'll continue the fine reputation of this podcast.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Well, I appreciate you being up early, california
time at 8.30.
Yeah it's pretty time, so Iknow we talked about this a
little bit.
You have been in real estate 19years.
Talk to us a little bit aboutkind of how you got into real
estate but really how you feltmeditation, mindfulness
practices have helped youparticularly in this career.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Right.
So I, you know, and it's, it'sfunny, you know, 19 years, um,
almost 20.
And prior to that I was aclassroom school teacher for 10
years, and just two verydifferent professions, but I
would say, not until I got intoreal estate and not until I got
(03:34):
fairly I don't know, maybe sevenyears into real estate.
I wasn't thinking about, youknow, taking care of my head
game or presence.
Those things just didn't reallyresonate with me and maybe,
like I said, maybe about 10, 12years ago, really started
thinking about starting the daywith stillness, starting the day
(03:58):
with presence, and I would saythat's where it came from, more
than anything else.
And, um, if you want to godeeper than that, just sort of
like not naturally being wiredto be as, maybe, positive, uh,
you know, as as other, that'spart of it too.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
So yeah, um, I feel like in this profession, having
your head game on straight, it'seasy to just crank through
deals, but then at some pointyou start losing your.
Your like anchor.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
I, you know, and it's , and I and I don't know if it's
the difference between being aindependent contractor and a
hundred percent commission, or,you know, knowing that there's a
paycheck coming in every twoweeks, which in this art
profession, that that doesn'thappen.
Um, so, um, yeah, just justbeing able to start each day
(04:48):
with a real positive mindset,and and even though even hearing
the word positive mindset comeout of my, my head, it sounds
almost trite, you know it soundslike.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
Does it make you cringe?
Speaker 2 (05:00):
But, um, man, there's a lot of truth in that and and
it just impacts our ability toto carry, to carry out what is a
really challenging professionand maybe not, and yes, there
are some technical aspects thatare challenging but just even
the only personal journey androller coaster you're on with
(05:20):
regards to what your goals areand what you're trying to learn
in real estate on with regardsto what your goals are and what
you're trying to learn in realestate?
Speaker 1 (05:30):
Yeah, for sure.
What do you think are some ofthe hardest things about being a
real estate 100%commission-based?
Speaker 2 (05:36):
What are some of the other components that you have
found difficult in this career?
I think that it's well in thebeginning I just remember
someone saying how do you getsomeone to sell, agree to sell
their first house with you?
Like that's just a challenging,you know notion.
And so if I had a windowwashing business, I'm pretty
(05:58):
convinced if I, you know, leaveenough door hangers, someone's
going to give me a call and it'sexactly what I'm driving at and
so, but to trust someone withtheir to buy or sell their
primary residence, oh mygoodness, like what, what faith
and trust they'd have to have inyou for the first time.
So that's the first earlychallenge in the career and I
(06:21):
think just I would.
I would just say it's thatroller coaster in that you just
don't know when the businessopportunities are exactly going
to come and and sort of you know, if you don't have an open
escrow here in California, youknow kind of considering
yourself unemployed and, uh, youknow yeah, there's a phrase I
heard a long time ago in one ofmy training programs, which was
(06:44):
in real estate.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
you kind of wake up every day assuming you're
unemployed and your job is to goout there and you know, hustle
and do the thing.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
Yeah, it's an interesting dichotomy of track
in terms of where the businesscomes from, and even now I have
some opportunities that startedfour years ago and that's not
uncommon.
I think every agent hasrelationships that are cashing
in on business that started froma relationship 18 months ago,
five years ago, take your pick.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
And also it's like in this particular, these past
five years have been so volatilethat there are clients who have
been in your pipeline or funnelor whatever in your mind even
for four years, because theyrated, the markets got up and
down and, yeah, I've had clientslike that who are closing in a
few days.
Same story.
I think it's been three or fouryears with them yeah yeah, how
(07:50):
do you incorporate rest, balance, mindfulness into your day as a
, as a busy agent who's been inthe business almost two decades
um the constant pull of thenumerous things we juggle right
between client care, working inthe business like actually
showing houses, being in thefield, working on the business
(08:11):
like business development,marketing and then all the like
taxes, accounting um postcards,client events.
How do you find rest andbalance.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
It sounds like you're doing a much harder job than I
am, so I didn't know I wassupposed to be doing all.
No, I'm just kidding.
But I think that our ability tostay present and that's
probably true of anyone,anyone's ability to stay present
just helps them throughouttheir day.
It helps them as a parent,helps them as a spouse, right,
(08:43):
and I think that when I startthe day just again, taking time
to be present and sort of beaware, I feel like that has
payoffs throughout the day, andI shared with you before we
started recording just how, likeyou know, right this instant,
my meditation game is maybe notas good as it could be and I
(09:04):
just that notion of like, oh,when I fall out of practice
there, I know that I'm not asready, not as present, a little
bit on the short side sometimeswith you know, family, and so I
can tell a difference, for sureyeah.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
Yeah, I think that's.
One of the key components wasbeing able to even tell the
difference.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
Right.
Without the awareness you don'teven realize you're becoming so
overwhelmed that things arestarting to get short with your
family or you're missing details.
The awareness to even know thatis like step one almost, of
being like, oh, I am becomingmore scattered or missing
details, becoming more scatteredor missing details.
This happened to me last weekwhere I had a referral that came
(09:47):
to me from an agent actuallyout in California and I called
this potential client by thewrong name the whole time.
Yeah, and it's because I wasjuggling so many things right
(10:08):
that I just I called him mikethe whole time.
His name is matt and at thevery end he said hey, just so
you know my name is actuallymatt.
I was like, oh, if that matters,what we put on the contract,
yeah I was like I'm so sorry, itwas on all the paperwork, it
was everywhere like it was not,yeah, it was just.
it was my error because I hadn'tslowed down enough to get his
name right and I feltembarrassed and I felt bad.
I mean, it's not the end of theworld, but I didn't feel great
(10:30):
about it, but it was noticingthat.
Okay, this is a sign to me thatI'm getting too scattered and
it's having consequences in away that I don't like operating
in.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
So in a previous conversation you had said
something that I thought wasreally great and you sort of
Tell previous conversation, youhad said something that I
thought was really great and yousort of Tell me what you
thought.
So you had said that it's notabout getting so good at
meditation that you know you cansit for three hours, you know,
or you know?
It's not some marathoncompetition.
It's about bringing theelements of presence and
(11:05):
breathing in shorter periodsthroughout the day.
And what would have happened,even if you had taken the time
before that phone call with thatclient to just sort of you know
, take a deep breath and say andeven acknowledge like I'm
feeling scattered, I'm I'mfeeling anxious, which takes all
of about like what, 20 seconds?
Speaker 1 (11:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
And and what if it?
Could it have changed thatphone call it may have.
Yeah, you don't sometimes justacknowledging where we are.
I think that's amazing to me,just acknowledging where we are.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
I same.
I totally agree.
Even when I'm on the like,driving on the road, and there's
someone who's drivingerratically or is making me
angry, it's like I have a choice.
I can try to match that energyRight, cause I'm I'm, I can feel
the anger coming up, or I canjust be like you know what.
It's just not worth it.
Right, it's not worth trying toprove a point on a highway
(11:58):
Right, what am I doing here?
But it's so easy to get caughtup in that you feel the
adrenaline.
This person's being a jerk no,never worth it.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
And then also and it makes me also think about how
we're professional talkers for aliving.
We talk for a living and, youknow, one situation is on the
road.
Another is you know what aboutwhen that agent on the other
side calls you?
Where are you when that callcomes in and are you in a
(12:28):
position to represent yourclient the best that you can in
this phone call with the otherside?
And those calls, as you know,range from just incredibly
pleasant.
And you know, I'd like to showyou're listening to.
Sure, you know, hey, we'reabout to drop out of this deal
because of, you know, leaky roof.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
And yeah, we had one last week that we're four days
away from closing and appraisalcame in low and I represented
sellers and we couldn't make itwork and the deal fell apart
four days before closing, whichhasn't happened in years to me.
Right, and both the other agentwas really professional and so
was I and we both were like well, we presented the options for
our clients and neither one ofus was a drama amplifier.
(13:07):
And I asked her like hey, Iappreciate, even though this
deal didn't work out, yourprofessionalism through this.
And she said oh yeah, I'm justgetting ready to go teach a yoga
class.
I'm like oh, you teach yogaclass.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
She's like.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
Oh, I've got to just keep my head straight.
I'm like, ah, this makes senseyeah.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
But I think that that's a.
There's a perfect analogy therebetween someone sitting in
traffic and the agent whodecides to take on all the
emotion of their client rightlike, just because our client is
emotionally agitated.
There is still a kernel ofsomething that needs to be
represented in a real estatecapacity yes, yes.
(13:43):
Now the emotion.
There's still some fact, yeah,and but I'm sure all day long
you and I both deal with agentswho sometimes are there.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
they get emotionally contagious from their client
Totally.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
You know they've been game.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
Amplify the drama.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
And even though it's a skill to learn to not get
overly invested in their story.
The analogy I'm making in mymind is like a surgeon right,
there's a reason why surgeonsdon't operate on their family
because you're too emotionallyinvested in what's going to
happen there, and so you have tohave a little bit of distance
to be able to do your job well.
So if I'm all in the emotions,I'm not doing a service to my
(14:23):
client.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
Right, I'm not doing a service to my client, right,
yeah, what I would.
What I would often say to newagents is you can't want it more
than they do.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
Such good advice, that's like.
My next question is what iswhat advice would you give to
someone who's like hey, I'mthinking about getting started
in real estate.
What did your brain, Steve?
Speaker 2 (14:38):
I'm going to go back to the question you asked
earlier.
Um, you would ask like one ofthe hardest things about real
estate and I said that realestate is a wonderful study in
controlling what you can controlright, which again is kind of
goes into the notion of presenceand, like you know, like when
you have control over yourbreathing, sometimes that's the
only thing you have control over.
(15:00):
So, going back to your example,like you guys don't have
control over what an appraiser'sopinion of value is and you
don't have control over whetheryour clients want to go far
enough to meet in the middle ormeet somewhere where both of you
could have moved forwards.
I would say for new agents, getvery attached to the outcome,
get very into the idea that youcannot control what always
(15:22):
happens and don't get attachedto specific outcomes which you
know, I tell you, I'm sure.
I made every mistake in the bookwhen I got into real estate and
there were times that Isometimes advised too much from
my perspective, right, and youjust got to listen to where
people are and do what's bestfor them and help them, do
what's best for them.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
It's such a it's such a nuanced skill to be able to
do that, especially when yourincome depends on it.
Right, like, and I'm sure youhave talked people out of buying
a home because you know it'snot the right situation for them
and you're like my relationshipwith you and your referrals
through the years is morevaluable than, like, this deal
right now and so it's not theright house for you.
Like, for all the reasonsyou've told me that, things that
(16:03):
are important and it's likelike you're talking yourself out
of commission.
I'm like, yeah, the worst thingfor me is if you bought this
property and then we're like wehate it.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
Yeah, that's what's so hard about.
So you're a new agent andyou're, let's say, you've been
working hard and you knew that.
You know the first paycheck wasgoing to be a ways away.
You get to a point where you'rethere and then three weeks,
like today, this is a Friday.
So I don't know if I'm going todispel any illusions by
(16:33):
throwing that.
So the reason I want to saythat it's Friday because today's
a great day, like you're thatnew agent, and at two in the
afternoon you get a phone callthat just wrecks your Friday
afternoon and probably yourweekend.
Because you know your paycheckthat you thought was going to be
three weeks away now may not be, you know.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
So, and that's just the nature of that, that is the
nature of the biz.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
So I mean comfortable with uncertainty.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
Yeah, Don't, don't stay in this business or don't
get into this business if you're, if you're not ready for that,
yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
It's a rough game sometimes, especially when there
are so many factors out of ourcontrol.
The COVID taught us that rightwe all had these plans in
January of 2020 that wentsideways and just things.
I mean we can't controlinterest rates, we can't control
what the feds do, we can'tcontrol the politics and the
economy and how people feelcertainty or not to buy or sell.
(17:26):
What are some of the bestthings about real estate to you?
Right, I was gonna say we'reit's been awfully doom and gloom
um to this point.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
But, um, I so I would say, specifically on I love
that negotiation when it's, whenyou know it, when it feels like
it's going to go somewhere,when you're working with another
agent and you are maybe I don'tknow three calls, two calls
away from putting a dealtogether.
I think that's pretty exciting.
And then, specifically on thebuyer side, when you're
(17:56):
representing a buyer and thenyou get to call them and say
that they, you know, they gotthe house, you know the really
positive outcome, um, such agreat moment.
Yeah, I've always thought that'sa little bit better on the
buyer's side than on theseller's side.
Don't get me wrong.
It's good to give sellers goodnews too, but there's something
about a buyer and we've beenthrough.
(18:17):
I just had one fought throughlike 12 other offers.
There's such a great feelingwhen you get to make that phone
call.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
Especially, we had that market in 2020 and 2021,
the crazy multiple offer market,and then our markets calmed
down since then.
But in California you guys havebeen dealing with that for
quite some time.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
We have, and the situation I just described to
you is atypical.
There's plenty of houses thatthat's not happening on.
This was just priced superaggressively and led to a lot of
interest.
I should get a photo of aroller coaster, which would
drastically improve my videocall background.
But yeah, I think a photo of aroller coaster would be really
good, because that is the natureof our biz.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
So getting into a little bit of the name of this
podcast Arrested and Rich RealEstate Agent and before we
started recording I was talkingabout the name change and
sitting with that word rich andits nuances in our culture right
now and just kind of feeling alittle bit uncertain if that was
the direction I wanted to goand it was interesting that you
also had some thoughts aroundthat.
But as I thought about it morefor me, rich and we live in a
(19:17):
capitalistic world whichrequires money- yeah.
So we can't devoid ourselves ofthat completely.
But a rich life in terms ofwhat does the money allow you to
do?
Where do you spend your time?
What does that look like foryou?
Speaker 2 (19:27):
Yeah, that's a great question and I think that it was
interesting that you and I bothkind of came to this notion
that, at the very least, rich isa.
It's not a neutral word, it hassome charge to it, right, the
notion of being rich.
But I like your question like,what is a rich life?
(19:47):
Right, because that seems tohave a lot more nuance and a lot
more shade to it.
So I think it's having enough.
You know, we all have the sameamount of time, right?
No matter who you are, you havethe same amount of time each
week, each year, and if, in arich life, you've created enough
of it which you can direct, how?
you want to spend it with otherpeople on other experiences,
(20:09):
with other people on otherexperiences, so that you do sort
of are living, you know, a lifethat is in harmony.
You know for you if you wantedto define it, I mean my wife all
the time like I.
I don't see myself retiringLike I just don't know what that
looks like.
I need one reason I'm in theoffice early in the morning is
because I need somewhere to goand I could see, I could see,
(20:32):
you know, years from now stillcoming in a little bit.
And the thing about real estateis, real estate can be many
different things.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
A lot of different ways real estate career can look
.
So I know I strayed way offfrom your original question, so
I apologize.
No, that's.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
I mean, that's your original Some of the things I'm
curious about.
What are specifics about?
What is a rich life for you?
What does that mean for you interms of?
Is it travel?
Is it having the funds to paysomeone else to do things you
don't want to do, like mow yourlawn or whatever?
Speaker 2 (21:04):
Great question.
The first, obviously, family,was the first kind of notion
that came up with me, was thefirst kind of notion that came
up with me.
And then, more specific,absolutely travel, or just
generic, more generically, theto provide, you know,
experiences for my family.
I always joke that, like, ifthere's a bazillion, how to get
rich in real estate books?
Right, sure you know this wasmy story.
I made a you know gazilliondollars in real estate, many of
(21:27):
them about two-thirds of the waythere's a chapter that starts.
So I made my first million inreal estate, but many of them
about two thirds of the waythere's a chapter that starts.
So I made my first million inreal estate, but I didn't
recognize the people in my house, I didn't know my family, and
so I had to reconnect with myfamily.
I can say that I never had togo through that.
I never, and I got into realestate basically just when I had
two little boys.
Never had to, ever.
(21:52):
For me it was a no brainer, likeI was never going to miss a
little league game or I wasnever going to miss a
performance at school, and thosewere just rocks in the schedule
that absolutely weren't goingto you know miss um, and so I
think, just being able to nothave to make a tough choice,
like be able to do kind of whatyou want to do, um with regards
to say, family and experiences,um, that, for, would be at the
center.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
Rich life, yeah.
So I'm curious if we can dig ina little bit to the nuts and
bolts of how you make thathappen.
So you're a newer agent, youhave two young boys.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
Right.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
You're starting off in real estate or you're
somewhere in the beginning ofyour career?
What would you tell a neweragent in a similar position of
how you go get a?
Speaker 2 (22:31):
real job.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
Well, I mean, that's I.
You know I have no shade forpeople who are like I can't do
this, like this is just.
I'm like you know what.
There was no shame in getting aquote, real job or corporate
job, especially if you needhealthcare benefits.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
Right.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
There's no shade.
I mean there's no shame in thatat all.
Like we tend to poop, like Ihave to go get a real job,
that's a, that's.
You know I failed.
I'm like this business is hardand it's not well, I'm.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
So I'm going to give you a little bit of a dark
answer to your question.
So I would say so we've talkedabout the roller coaster and I.
I got my real estate license inlate 05 and I think of like the
.
The january 06 is kind of thestart.
My sons were born in 07 and 09,right, wow.
So at some point I'm two, threeyears in the business and we're
(23:19):
in the middle of the greatrecession.
Um, I, we were living in ahouse that we were, we had
purchased at the high and wewere underwater on yeah like you
know, every almost everyoneelse you know especially in
california, you're hit worth thehardest in the nation.
Exactly home was worth maybehalf of what we paid for it and
(23:39):
I think at some point we, like Isaid, we talked about the
roller coaster and I think I, II saw what the low could be.
I, I acknowledged to myselfthis is a hard time in real
estate, this is a hard time toget into real estate and, like
you know what would happen if welost this house?
Like, I think, I looked at thelow and realized it's really all
(24:05):
about these three other peoplein my family and myself.
As long as we're together,that's the only thing that
matters.
So I think.
So the dark answer is, at onepoint, staring down that low and
what it could be and realizingthat I don't know that I'd live
or whatever, I don't know.
Somehow that perspective helpedme.
(24:25):
And then, I don't know, justconsistency, coming into work
and doing the same thing everyday that would be my advice for
any new agent is that whateveryou choose to do, you just have
to do it every day, every week,every month, and you know you'll
figure it out as a new agent.
Which things to choose, yeah,but that consistency, which?
Speaker 1 (24:48):
like resonate with their personality and their
lifestyle and stuff.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
But yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
I think there's value in that, right Like, there's
value in following, allowingyourself to follow that thread
of what's the worst that couldhappen.
Right Like if you're in therapy, ever struggling with a problem
.
It's like, well, so what if youlost your job?
Or what if that thing let's gorather than fighting it and be
like I'm not going to thinkabout that, because that's
negative.
What if that thing let's gorather than fighting it and be
like I'm not going to thinkabout that because that's
negative?
(25:13):
It's like well, it's also life,though.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
Like it could happen.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
Do you feel like you have resiliency within yourself,
or are there things you can doto build your resiliency as you
go through this tough time Like,what does that look like?
And I think it's helpful to dothat.
I don't know, as a fellowmeditator, if you ever have gone
into like meditations on deathor the end of things.
I mean, it's a common practiceof like thinking about the end
(25:38):
of things, which is ultimatelyour lives.
But, just like anything,seasons all of it.
Um, it's helpful to be like.
This will end one day and sowhen it does, am I making, am I
being present and doing what Ican in this moment?
Speaker 2 (25:55):
So and I, and again I don't.
At one point we had aconversation.
I was like I don't know if I'ma good meditator or not you know
what does that mean, though?
Speaker 1 (26:00):
Right, I mean you could sit there with your eyes
closed for three hours.
I'm, like Steve's, a greatmeditator, but you could just be
like reciting lyrics of yourfavorite songs in your head.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
I mean, I don't know, right like I, I do think so,
and and I, and, and I'm I'mmostly self-taught, so I don't
know the fancy.
You know if, whatever, they'reteaching at the ivy league
meditation schools.
I don't know, like I didn'tlearn that stuff, uh, but yeah,
if you ask the question, what amI truly afraid of?
Speaker 1 (26:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
And then you think about that like what you know,
really kind of just let yourselfbe present with that question.
I think there's some amazinganswers or just concepts that
come up with you and I thinkthat just goes back to the whole
notion of meditation andsitting still, yes, and really
(26:51):
being where you were.
So you know, one of my favoritecompass stories is, you know,
as a compass agent you'refamiliar with, like the compass
retreat, which is a gathering ofnation agents, nationwide, and
there was a group meditation infront of a fountain in
Charleston, you know this pastyear, fountain in Charleston,
(27:12):
you know this past year.
Um, and just to see somepeople's emotional response,
just to see some people in tears, um, probably because they
haven't sat still withthemselves.
you know, and I'm I'm diagnosinga little bit here, I'm making
some assumptions but, yeah, Ithink it's amazing for people
what they realize when theyliterally just sit still with
themselves and have somerecognition around what's,
what's there for them?
Speaker 1 (27:32):
sit still with themselves and have some
recognition around what's what'sthere for them.
Well, it takes courage.
I think every time you'rewilling to be quiet and be still
, it's it takes courage.
It's a lot like this gettinginto this work right.
There's so much uncertainty.
It's the uncertainty of what'sgoing to come up when you're
quiet and you're still to saythis may, might be unlikely.
Unlikely, like you know, peopleoften have the misconception
(27:52):
that meditation always makes youfeel better, and I'm like no,
sometimes you feel worse, butthat's not the point.
That's not the point, though.
Right the point is kind of bepresent for whatever's showing
up now, and that's not alwaysgreat, um, but to me it's like
it takes courage every time toslow down, to take the deep
breaths, to realize you'reuncomfortable even, and
(28:15):
sometimes you realize you'reactually great right.
You're like actually I feelcentered, I feel good.
Um, I think we're very attachedto the feeling of wanting to
feel good, just normal.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
But oh well, how about?
Yeah, I mean even the peoplesay all the time, oh, is this a
good thing?
And I, I'm like, well, I don'tknow Is going to therapy a good
thing.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
I mean, it's not your lead recession.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
I would say it's going to therapy, yeah, and then
you know let's define what thatis.
But yeah, I completely agreewith about this notion of
goodness and, yeah, our wantingeven just to say it's a good
life, that's that that we want.
We want that right, like wewant to live a good life.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
And that's not being selfish, it's saying you know, I
want to understand my ownsuffering, I want to understand
my own path so that I can showit better and be present for
people who are at whatever stage.
They're at right, whetherthey're having a joyful
experience, buying or sellingtheir house or they're not.
And you and I both dealt withpeople who are not selling or
buying for great reasons, right,like someone's passed away.
(29:18):
They're getting a divorce, likeit's not joyful, and how do we
be present with that space thatthey're in?
Right, they don't want the rah,rah, rah.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
They don't want the pictures at closing, right, they
don't want any of that, wouldyou agree that we are to some
degree?
Speaker 1 (29:39):
we are emotional shepherds, right.
Yeah, we're emotional and alsolike transaction shepherds right
, we're trying to also help themdo a thing buy this home or
sell this home, in addition tohelping them understand the
process and help them go throughtheir own process too.
It's I can't.
I don't know what otherprofession does other than a
therapist maybe.
Like you know, we get asnapshot into someone's life in
(30:01):
a very like intimate moment,right especially if they're
going through a divorce orsomeone's passed on or something
that's like.
We learn details about theirlife and how they live and
what's important to them, andit's like, oh, are we going to
people's homes?
literally, we walk people'shomes right yeah, there's a
level of trust there.
But yeah, anything else thatyou want to share about that.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
You have notes on that you've thought about in I
just uh, I just no, I think I'mpretty good.
I think we, I think anyone, canlisten to this and get a great
scope of how challenging realestate is and how meditation is
going to be the key.
Well, I'll say this yes For youand I, you and I have
(30:50):
determined that meditation is apart of who we are as people,
which, then, is a function ofwho we are as real estate agents
, right?
Speaker 1 (30:59):
Sure.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
They're not separate.
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
So this is just on a moresuperficial level.
We could talk about our realestate brand, but more
authentically, we could talkabout how we show up for people
in our professional life and howwe show up as a function of who
we are sure and, and you know,you and I've determined that
sitting still and quietly isgoing to be part of, you know,
(31:20):
the formula.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
There's some value there.
You know, and I don't know ifclients tell you this, but
clients will tell me sometimesthat, um, they're like, we don't
like, we don't know how you dothis job.
It's so stressful.
You're like it is stressful or,you know, you were just so calm
through the whole process.
I was like, maybe internallysometimes there is obviously
chaos happening in my system,but I'm like that's not, I don't
want to put, that's not theirproblem right I don't put that
(31:42):
on them or like our transactionsnormally this chaotic I'm like
no, this was definitely one ofthem.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
More you know but I I I'll say that to clients all
the time because they'll thinkthat, in terms of problem
transaction, this is like a 10and like, yeah, it's like a four
yeah, do you tell.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
Do you tell them that I do?
Speaker 2 (32:03):
oh, you do okay I try to let them know that how
serious things are and prettynormal?
Speaker 1 (32:10):
yeah, it's.
It's challenging to figure outlike when to acknowledge that
for them, when to be like letthem have their own experience
about how hard I mean.
Some people are only going tobuy one house in their lifetime
right and it is a.
It is a lot like it's anemotional, it's an upheaval of
every aspect of their lives, andso for them, it's like this was
the most stressful thing I'veever done.
I'm like I from my perspectiveit was a four, but from their
(32:32):
perspective it was a 10.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
Well, and that's true , and that's absolutely true,
and I think that you, there's agreat fine line like
acknowledging where they are,with providing the confidence
that, hey, I've been here beforeand I'm going to get you
through.
You know this stretch ofnavigation.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
I go back to the analogy of surgery.
Right, I may only be in surgeryone time, and so to me, the
process and the recovery is likethis is, oh my God, this is
taking weeks and weeks, andweeks and whatever.
And the surgeon is like yeah,you're on track, this is normal.
And you're like this is normalrecovery, like that's crazy.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
Or you know it takes about that long and you're
experiencing as normal andyou're like oh Well as we wrap
(33:26):
up here, one of the questionsI'd like to ask I ask my team
this at every one of ourmeetings is tell me something
that is delighting you right now.
So the first thing that poppedin my head is my younger son.
Yeah, Of my two sons, he's theone that's a little more up and
down, a little more teenagedrama.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
Sure, how old is he?
Speaker 2 (33:37):
He is 16 years old.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
Okay, so you're in the thick of teenage drama.
Speaker 2 (33:43):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and just right now we are on a good
roll communication-wise, sothat is 100% delighting me.
Taking the wins, yeah,absolutely.
That's a great question, though.
What's delighting you?
I love that question becauseit's a gratitude question
without using the word gratitude, which there's nothing wrong
with, but that's a great way toask that question.
Speaker 1 (34:08):
Right as a pandemic hit.
I listened to a podcast thattalked about this book called
the book of delights, and itvery quickly became my favorite
book all right, there you go.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
Well, you tend to find what you're looking for,
right exactly right it?
Speaker 1 (34:24):
that delight radar just pops up a little bit and
then you start noticing thesethings and I'm like I had like
five delights today.
Thank you for sharing that.
Thank you for your time, Steve.
I appreciate this very much.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
Thank you for the opportunity to appreciate the
conversation.
Speaker 1 (34:38):
Well, I look forward to continuing the conversation
ongoing and I'm sure we'll catchup.
Are you going to Denver?
Speaker 2 (34:43):
Going to Denver.
I will be there.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
I will see you there.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
Sounds good.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
Thanks so much.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
All right, thank you.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
Bye, steve Bye.
Wow, I hope you enjoyed thatepisode as much as I did and
learned some valuable thingsfrom another veteran agent.
Steve shared some real nuggetsof wisdom in his two decades
almost of being a real estateagent and lessons he's learned
through that time, and I hopeyou found that useful.
(35:11):
Thank you for joining me onthis episode of the Rested and
Rich Real Estate Agent.
If you found this episode useful, it would mean so much to me if
you would share it with acolleague in your office and I
have an upcoming course comingup starting in May and it's
going to be called the AgentStress Solution and it is really
taking a lot of thesecomponents of mindfulness
(35:32):
practices and really diggingdeep into how we apply this in
our day to day lives as realestate agents, both for
ourselves, our clients throughtransactions and through
stressful things that we dealwith in our industry.
And I'd also like to ask you afavor, which is that if you
think someone would be a greatguest on this podcast who
incorporates mindfulness intotheir real estate practice even
(35:54):
a loan officer or something inthe real estate space I would
love to see if they would beopen to a conversation with me
on this podcast, since it's new.
I'm looking to connect withother like-minded agents across
the nation.
If you are one of those people,or you know someone, please
create an introduction.
You can find all my contactinformation in the show notes.
Thanks again, so much forjoining me and until next time
(36:17):
be well.
Welcome to today's episode of the Rested and Rich
Real Estate Agent, a podcastthat helps you navigate life as
a real estate agent, whilefinding some rest and balance
along the way.
I'm your host, sumina, anactive real estate agent with 18
years of experience in theAustin, texas market, and I'm
also a certified meditationteacher.
(00:22):
This podcast was specificallycreated for real estate agents'
brains to learn how to managethe stress and anxiety of our
industry, and today I am soexcited to present my first
guest podcast with SteveMatsumoto.
You'll learn more about Stevethrough our conversation, but I
thoroughly enjoy getting to knowhow a fellow real estate agent
(00:44):
incorporates mindfulness intotheir business.
We talk about some of thechallenges in real estate the
difficulty of earning trust as anew agent, the uncertainty of
income and commissions, theroller coaster nature of this
business, as Steve puts it, andsometimes relationships that you
build in real estate can takeyears to turn into actual
business.
(01:04):
We also discuss, obviously, thebenefits of meditation and
mindfulness help manage theemotional aspects of this
profession, how those practiceshelp us to stay present with
challenging transactions andclients who are stressed, and
how we're better able torepresent our client when
dealing with other agents aswell.
We also get a little bit intoadvice that Steve has for new
(01:26):
agents as a veteran agent withalmost two decades under his
belt.
That was some great, valuableadvice that Steve shared with us
.
I hope you'll find it useful aswell.
And then, of course, we talkabout what makes a rich life for
Steve.
As we pay tribute to the nameof this podcast, steve also gets
personal with us and shares alittle bit about the very
(01:46):
personal difficulties he facedback when he got into the
business in 2008 when a greatrecession was hitting.
So I hope you'll enjoy thisconversation as much as I did.
Thank you again for joining meon the Arrested Real Estate
Agent.
Good morning.
I am excited today to haveSteve Matamoto from Carlsbad,
(02:08):
california, as my first guest onthis podcast.
Steve has been in real estatefor 19 years and we kind of
struck up a conversationregarding mindfulness and
meditation and how it's helpedour practice in real estate, so
I figured Steve would be a greatguest to have on the podcast,
(02:28):
as it feeds into our theme ofbeing rested and rich in real
estate.
So welcome Steve.
Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Well, no, thank you, and I didn't know that I was the
first, so very, very honored tohave that position.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
Hence all the tech issues.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
We'll continue the fine reputation of this podcast.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Well, I appreciate you being up early, california
time at 8.30.
Yeah it's pretty time, so Iknow we talked about this a
little bit.
You have been in real estate 19years.
Talk to us a little bit aboutkind of how you got into real
estate but really how you feltmeditation, mindfulness
practices have helped youparticularly in this career.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Right.
So I, you know, and it's, it'sfunny, you know, 19 years, um,
almost 20.
And prior to that I was aclassroom school teacher for 10
years, and just two verydifferent professions, but I
would say, not until I got intoreal estate and not until I got
(03:34):
fairly I don't know, maybe sevenyears into real estate.
I wasn't thinking about, youknow, taking care of my head
game or presence.
Those things just didn't reallyresonate with me and maybe,
like I said, maybe about 10, 12years ago, really started
thinking about starting the daywith stillness, starting the day
(03:58):
with presence, and I would saythat's where it came from, more
than anything else.
And, um, if you want to godeeper than that, just sort of
like not naturally being wiredto be as, maybe, positive, uh,
you know, as as other, that'spart of it too.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
So yeah, um, I feel like in this profession, having
your head game on straight, it'seasy to just crank through
deals, but then at some pointyou start losing your.
Your like anchor.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
I, you know, and it's , and I and I don't know if it's
the difference between being aindependent contractor and a
hundred percent commission, or,you know, knowing that there's a
paycheck coming in every twoweeks, which in this art
profession, that that doesn'thappen.
Um, so, um, yeah, just justbeing able to start each day
(04:48):
with a real positive mindset,and and even though even hearing
the word positive mindset comeout of my, my head, it sounds
almost trite, you know it soundslike.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
Does it make you cringe?
Speaker 2 (05:00):
But, um, man, there's a lot of truth in that and and
it just impacts our ability toto carry, to carry out what is a
really challenging professionand maybe not, and yes, there
are some technical aspects thatare challenging but just even
the only personal journey androller coaster you're on with
(05:20):
regards to what your goals areand what you're trying to learn
in real estate on with regardsto what your goals are and what
you're trying to learn in realestate?
Speaker 1 (05:30):
Yeah, for sure.
What do you think are some ofthe hardest things about being a
real estate 100%commission-based?
Speaker 2 (05:36):
What are some of the other components that you have
found difficult in this career?
I think that it's well in thebeginning I just remember
someone saying how do you getsomeone to sell, agree to sell
their first house with you?
Like that's just a challenging,you know notion.
And so if I had a windowwashing business, I'm pretty
(05:58):
convinced if I, you know, leaveenough door hangers, someone's
going to give me a call and it'sexactly what I'm driving at and
so, but to trust someone withtheir to buy or sell their
primary residence, oh mygoodness, like what, what faith
and trust they'd have to have inyou for the first time.
So that's the first earlychallenge in the career and I
(06:21):
think just I would.
I would just say it's thatroller coaster in that you just
don't know when the businessopportunities are exactly going
to come and and sort of you know, if you don't have an open
escrow here in California, youknow kind of considering
yourself unemployed and, uh, youknow yeah, there's a phrase I
heard a long time ago in one ofmy training programs, which was
(06:44):
in real estate.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
you kind of wake up every day assuming you're
unemployed and your job is to goout there and you know, hustle
and do the thing.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
Yeah, it's an interesting dichotomy of track
in terms of where the businesscomes from, and even now I have
some opportunities that startedfour years ago and that's not
uncommon.
I think every agent hasrelationships that are cashing
in on business that started froma relationship 18 months ago,
five years ago, take your pick.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
And also it's like in this particular, these past
five years have been so volatilethat there are clients who have
been in your pipeline or funnelor whatever in your mind even
for four years, because theyrated, the markets got up and
down and, yeah, I've had clientslike that who are closing in a
few days.
Same story.
I think it's been three or fouryears with them yeah yeah, how
(07:50):
do you incorporate rest, balance, mindfulness into your day as a
, as a busy agent who's been inthe business almost two decades
um the constant pull of thenumerous things we juggle right
between client care, working inthe business like actually
showing houses, being in thefield, working on the business
(08:11):
like business development,marketing and then all the like
taxes, accounting um postcards,client events.
How do you find rest andbalance.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
It sounds like you're doing a much harder job than I
am, so I didn't know I wassupposed to be doing all.
No, I'm just kidding.
But I think that our ability tostay present and that's
probably true of anyone,anyone's ability to stay present
just helps them throughouttheir day.
It helps them as a parent,helps them as a spouse, right,
(08:43):
and I think that when I startthe day just again, taking time
to be present and sort of beaware, I feel like that has
payoffs throughout the day, andI shared with you before we
started recording just how, likeyou know, right this instant,
my meditation game is maybe notas good as it could be and I
(09:04):
just that notion of like, oh,when I fall out of practice
there, I know that I'm not asready, not as present, a little
bit on the short side sometimeswith you know, family, and so I
can tell a difference, for sureyeah.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
Yeah, I think that's.
One of the key components wasbeing able to even tell the
difference.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
Right.
Without the awareness you don'teven realize you're becoming so
overwhelmed that things arestarting to get short with your
family or you're missing details.
The awareness to even know thatis like step one almost, of
being like, oh, I am becomingmore scattered or missing
details, becoming more scatteredor missing details.
This happened to me last weekwhere I had a referral that came
(09:47):
to me from an agent actuallyout in California and I called
this potential client by thewrong name the whole time.
Yeah, and it's because I wasjuggling so many things right
(10:08):
that I just I called him mikethe whole time.
His name is matt and at thevery end he said hey, just so
you know my name is actuallymatt.
I was like, oh, if that matters,what we put on the contract,
yeah I was like I'm so sorry, itwas on all the paperwork, it
was everywhere like it was not,yeah, it was just.
it was my error because I hadn'tslowed down enough to get his
name right and I feltembarrassed and I felt bad.
I mean, it's not the end of theworld, but I didn't feel great
(10:30):
about it, but it was noticingthat.
Okay, this is a sign to me thatI'm getting too scattered and
it's having consequences in away that I don't like operating
in.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
So in a previous conversation you had said
something that I thought wasreally great and you sort of
Tell previous conversation, youhad said something that I
thought was really great and yousort of Tell me what you
thought.
So you had said that it's notabout getting so good at
meditation that you know you cansit for three hours, you know,
or you know?
It's not some marathoncompetition.
It's about bringing theelements of presence and
(11:05):
breathing in shorter periodsthroughout the day.
And what would have happened,even if you had taken the time
before that phone call with thatclient to just sort of you know
, take a deep breath and say andeven acknowledge like I'm
feeling scattered, I'm I'mfeeling anxious, which takes all
of about like what, 20 seconds?
Speaker 1 (11:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
And and what if it?
Could it have changed thatphone call it may have.
Yeah, you don't sometimes justacknowledging where we are.
I think that's amazing to me,just acknowledging where we are.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
I same.
I totally agree.
Even when I'm on the like,driving on the road, and there's
someone who's drivingerratically or is making me
angry, it's like I have a choice.
I can try to match that energyRight, cause I'm I'm, I can feel
the anger coming up, or I canjust be like you know what.
It's just not worth it.
Right, it's not worth trying toprove a point on a highway
(11:58):
Right, what am I doing here?
But it's so easy to get caughtup in that you feel the
adrenaline.
This person's being a jerk no,never worth it.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
And then also and it makes me also think about how
we're professional talkers for aliving.
We talk for a living and, youknow, one situation is on the
road.
Another is you know what aboutwhen that agent on the other
side calls you?
Where are you when that callcomes in and are you in a
(12:28):
position to represent yourclient the best that you can in
this phone call with the otherside?
And those calls, as you know,range from just incredibly
pleasant.
And you know, I'd like to showyou're listening to.
Sure, you know, hey, we'reabout to drop out of this deal
because of, you know, leaky roof.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
And yeah, we had one last week that we're four days
away from closing and appraisalcame in low and I represented
sellers and we couldn't make itwork and the deal fell apart
four days before closing, whichhasn't happened in years to me.
Right, and both the other agentwas really professional and so
was I and we both were like well, we presented the options for
our clients and neither one ofus was a drama amplifier.
(13:07):
And I asked her like hey, Iappreciate, even though this
deal didn't work out, yourprofessionalism through this.
And she said oh yeah, I'm justgetting ready to go teach a yoga
class.
I'm like oh, you teach yogaclass.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
She's like.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
Oh, I've got to just keep my head straight.
I'm like, ah, this makes senseyeah.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
But I think that that's a.
There's a perfect analogy therebetween someone sitting in
traffic and the agent whodecides to take on all the
emotion of their client rightlike, just because our client is
emotionally agitated.
There is still a kernel ofsomething that needs to be
represented in a real estatecapacity yes, yes.
(13:43):
Now the emotion.
There's still some fact, yeah,and but I'm sure all day long
you and I both deal with agentswho sometimes are there.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
they get emotionally contagious from their client
Totally.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
You know they've been game.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
Amplify the drama.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
And even though it's a skill to learn to not get
overly invested in their story.
The analogy I'm making in mymind is like a surgeon right,
there's a reason why surgeonsdon't operate on their family
because you're too emotionallyinvested in what's going to
happen there, and so you have tohave a little bit of distance
to be able to do your job well.
So if I'm all in the emotions,I'm not doing a service to my
(14:23):
client.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
Right, I'm not doing a service to my client, right,
yeah, what I would.
What I would often say to newagents is you can't want it more
than they do.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
Such good advice, that's like.
My next question is what iswhat advice would you give to
someone who's like hey, I'mthinking about getting started
in real estate.
What did your brain, Steve?
Speaker 2 (14:38):
I'm going to go back to the question you asked
earlier.
Um, you would ask like one ofthe hardest things about real
estate and I said that realestate is a wonderful study in
controlling what you can controlright, which again is kind of
goes into the notion of presenceand, like you know, like when
you have control over yourbreathing, sometimes that's the
only thing you have control over.
(15:00):
So, going back to your example,like you guys don't have
control over what an appraiser'sopinion of value is and you
don't have control over whetheryour clients want to go far
enough to meet in the middle ormeet somewhere where both of you
could have moved forwards.
I would say for new agents, getvery attached to the outcome,
get very into the idea that youcannot control what always
(15:22):
happens and don't get attachedto specific outcomes which you
know, I tell you, I'm sure.
I made every mistake in the bookwhen I got into real estate and
there were times that Isometimes advised too much from
my perspective, right, and youjust got to listen to where
people are and do what's bestfor them and help them, do
what's best for them.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
It's such a it's such a nuanced skill to be able to
do that, especially when yourincome depends on it.
Right, like, and I'm sure youhave talked people out of buying
a home because you know it'snot the right situation for them
and you're like my relationshipwith you and your referrals
through the years is morevaluable than, like, this deal
right now and so it's not theright house for you.
Like, for all the reasonsyou've told me that, things that
(16:03):
are important and it's likelike you're talking yourself out
of commission.
I'm like, yeah, the worst thingfor me is if you bought this
property and then we're like wehate it.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
Yeah, that's what's so hard about.
So you're a new agent andyou're, let's say, you've been
working hard and you knew that.
You know the first paycheck wasgoing to be a ways away.
You get to a point where you'rethere and then three weeks,
like today, this is a Friday.
So I don't know if I'm going todispel any illusions by
(16:33):
throwing that.
So the reason I want to saythat it's Friday because today's
a great day, like you're thatnew agent, and at two in the
afternoon you get a phone callthat just wrecks your Friday
afternoon and probably yourweekend.
Because you know your paycheckthat you thought was going to be
three weeks away now may not be, you know.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
So, and that's just the nature of that, that is the
nature of the biz.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
So I mean comfortable with uncertainty.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
Yeah, Don't, don't stay in this business or don't
get into this business if you're, if you're not ready for that,
yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
It's a rough game sometimes, especially when there
are so many factors out of ourcontrol.
The COVID taught us that rightwe all had these plans in
January of 2020 that wentsideways and just things.
I mean we can't controlinterest rates, we can't control
what the feds do, we can'tcontrol the politics and the
economy and how people feelcertainty or not to buy or sell.
(17:26):
What are some of the bestthings about real estate to you?
Right, I was gonna say we'reit's been awfully doom and gloom
um to this point.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
But, um, I so I would say, specifically on I love
that negotiation when it's, whenyou know it, when it feels like
it's going to go somewhere,when you're working with another
agent and you are maybe I don'tknow three calls, two calls
away from putting a dealtogether.
I think that's pretty exciting.
And then, specifically on thebuyer side, when you're
(17:56):
representing a buyer and thenyou get to call them and say
that they, you know, they gotthe house, you know the really
positive outcome, um, such agreat moment.
Yeah, I've always thought that'sa little bit better on the
buyer's side than on theseller's side.
Don't get me wrong.
It's good to give sellers goodnews too, but there's something
about a buyer and we've beenthrough.
(18:17):
I just had one fought throughlike 12 other offers.
There's such a great feelingwhen you get to make that phone
call.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
Especially, we had that market in 2020 and 2021,
the crazy multiple offer market,and then our markets calmed
down since then.
But in California you guys havebeen dealing with that for
quite some time.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
We have, and the situation I just described to
you is atypical.
There's plenty of houses thatthat's not happening on.
This was just priced superaggressively and led to a lot of
interest.
I should get a photo of aroller coaster, which would
drastically improve my videocall background.
But yeah, I think a photo of aroller coaster would be really
good, because that is the natureof our biz.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
So getting into a little bit of the name of this
podcast Arrested and Rich RealEstate Agent and before we
started recording I was talkingabout the name change and
sitting with that word rich andits nuances in our culture right
now and just kind of feeling alittle bit uncertain if that was
the direction I wanted to goand it was interesting that you
also had some thoughts aroundthat.
But as I thought about it morefor me, rich and we live in a
(19:17):
capitalistic world whichrequires money- yeah.
So we can't devoid ourselves ofthat completely.
But a rich life in terms ofwhat does the money allow you to
do?
Where do you spend your time?
What does that look like foryou?
Speaker 2 (19:27):
Yeah, that's a great question and I think that it was
interesting that you and I bothkind of came to this notion
that, at the very least, rich isa.
It's not a neutral word, it hassome charge to it, right, the
notion of being rich.
But I like your question like,what is a rich life?
(19:47):
Right, because that seems tohave a lot more nuance and a lot
more shade to it.
So I think it's having enough.
You know, we all have the sameamount of time, right?
No matter who you are, you havethe same amount of time each
week, each year, and if, in arich life, you've created enough
of it which you can direct, how?
you want to spend it with otherpeople on other experiences,
(20:09):
with other people on otherexperiences, so that you do sort
of are living, you know, a lifethat is in harmony.
You know for you if you wantedto define it, I mean my wife all
the time like I.
I don't see myself retiringLike I just don't know what that
looks like.
I need one reason I'm in theoffice early in the morning is
because I need somewhere to goand I could see, I could see,
(20:32):
you know, years from now stillcoming in a little bit.
And the thing about real estateis, real estate can be many
different things.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
A lot of different ways real estate career can look
.
So I know I strayed way offfrom your original question, so
I apologize.
No, that's.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
I mean, that's your original Some of the things I'm
curious about.
What are specifics about?
What is a rich life for you?
What does that mean for you interms of?
Is it travel?
Is it having the funds to paysomeone else to do things you
don't want to do, like mow yourlawn or whatever?
Speaker 2 (21:04):
Great question.
The first, obviously, family,was the first kind of notion
that came up with me, was thefirst kind of notion that came
up with me.
And then, more specific,absolutely travel, or just
generic, more generically, theto provide, you know,
experiences for my family.
I always joke that, like, ifthere's a bazillion, how to get
rich in real estate books?
Right, sure you know this wasmy story.
I made a you know gazilliondollars in real estate, many of
(21:27):
them about two-thirds of the waythere's a chapter that starts.
So I made my first million inreal estate, but many of them
about two thirds of the waythere's a chapter that starts.
So I made my first million inreal estate, but I didn't
recognize the people in my house, I didn't know my family, and
so I had to reconnect with myfamily.
I can say that I never had togo through that.
I never, and I got into realestate basically just when I had
two little boys.
Never had to, ever.
(21:52):
For me it was a no brainer, likeI was never going to miss a
little league game or I wasnever going to miss a
performance at school, and thosewere just rocks in the schedule
that absolutely weren't goingto you know miss um, and so I
think, just being able to nothave to make a tough choice,
like be able to do kind of whatyou want to do, um with regards
to say, family and experiences,um, that, for, would be at the
center.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
Rich life, yeah.
So I'm curious if we can dig ina little bit to the nuts and
bolts of how you make thathappen.
So you're a newer agent, youhave two young boys.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
Right.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
You're starting off in real estate or you're
somewhere in the beginning ofyour career?
What would you tell a neweragent in a similar position of
how you go get a?
Speaker 2 (22:31):
real job.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
Well, I mean, that's I.
You know I have no shade forpeople who are like I can't do
this, like this is just.
I'm like you know what.
There was no shame in getting aquote, real job or corporate
job, especially if you needhealthcare benefits.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
Right.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
There's no shade.
I mean there's no shame in thatat all.
Like we tend to poop, like Ihave to go get a real job,
that's a, that's.
You know I failed.
I'm like this business is hardand it's not well, I'm.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
So I'm going to give you a little bit of a dark
answer to your question.
So I would say so we've talkedabout the roller coaster and I.
I got my real estate license inlate 05 and I think of like the
.
The january 06 is kind of thestart.
My sons were born in 07 and 09,right, wow.
So at some point I'm two, threeyears in the business and we're
(23:19):
in the middle of the greatrecession.
Um, I, we were living in ahouse that we were, we had
purchased at the high and wewere underwater on yeah like you
know, every almost everyoneelse you know especially in
california, you're hit worth thehardest in the nation.
Exactly home was worth maybehalf of what we paid for it and
(23:39):
I think at some point we, like Isaid, we talked about the
roller coaster and I think I, II saw what the low could be.
I, I acknowledged to myselfthis is a hard time in real
estate, this is a hard time toget into real estate and, like
you know what would happen if welost this house?
Like, I think, I looked at thelow and realized it's really all
(24:05):
about these three other peoplein my family and myself.
As long as we're together,that's the only thing that
matters.
So I think.
So the dark answer is, at onepoint, staring down that low and
what it could be and realizingthat I don't know that I'd live
or whatever, I don't know.
Somehow that perspective helpedme.
(24:25):
And then, I don't know, justconsistency, coming into work
and doing the same thing everyday that would be my advice for
any new agent is that whateveryou choose to do, you just have
to do it every day, every week,every month, and you know you'll
figure it out as a new agent.
Which things to choose, yeah,but that consistency, which?
Speaker 1 (24:48):
like resonate with their personality and their
lifestyle and stuff.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
But yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
I think there's value in that, right Like, there's
value in following, allowingyourself to follow that thread
of what's the worst that couldhappen.
Right Like if you're in therapy, ever struggling with a problem
.
It's like, well, so what if youlost your job?
Or what if that thing let's gorather than fighting it and be
like I'm not going to thinkabout that, because that's
negative.
What if that thing let's gorather than fighting it and be
like I'm not going to thinkabout that because that's
negative?
(25:13):
It's like well, it's also life,though.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
Like it could happen.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
Do you feel like you have resiliency within yourself,
or are there things you can doto build your resiliency as you
go through this tough time Like,what does that look like?
And I think it's helpful to dothat.
I don't know, as a fellowmeditator, if you ever have gone
into like meditations on deathor the end of things.
I mean, it's a common practiceof like thinking about the end
(25:38):
of things, which is ultimatelyour lives.
But, just like anything,seasons all of it.
Um, it's helpful to be like.
This will end one day and sowhen it does, am I making, am I
being present and doing what Ican in this moment?
Speaker 2 (25:55):
So and I, and again I don't.
At one point we had aconversation.
I was like I don't know if I'ma good meditator or not you know
what does that mean, though?
Speaker 1 (26:00):
Right, I mean you could sit there with your eyes
closed for three hours.
I'm, like Steve's, a greatmeditator, but you could just be
like reciting lyrics of yourfavorite songs in your head.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
I mean, I don't know, right like I, I do think so,
and and I, and, and I'm I'mmostly self-taught, so I don't
know the fancy.
You know if, whatever, they'reteaching at the ivy league
meditation schools.
I don't know, like I didn'tlearn that stuff, uh, but yeah,
if you ask the question, what amI truly afraid of?
Speaker 1 (26:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
And then you think about that like what you know,
really kind of just let yourselfbe present with that question.
I think there's some amazinganswers or just concepts that
come up with you and I thinkthat just goes back to the whole
notion of meditation andsitting still, yes, and really
(26:51):
being where you were.
So you know, one of my favoritecompass stories is, you know,
as a compass agent you'refamiliar with, like the compass
retreat, which is a gathering ofnation agents, nationwide, and
there was a group meditation infront of a fountain in
Charleston, you know this pastyear, fountain in Charleston,
(27:12):
you know this past year.
Um, and just to see somepeople's emotional response,
just to see some people in tears, um, probably because they
haven't sat still withthemselves.
you know, and I'm I'm diagnosinga little bit here, I'm making
some assumptions but, yeah, Ithink it's amazing for people
what they realize when theyliterally just sit still with
themselves and have somerecognition around what's,
what's there for them?
Speaker 1 (27:32):
sit still with themselves and have some
recognition around what's what'sthere for them.
Well, it takes courage.
I think every time you'rewilling to be quiet and be still
, it's it takes courage.
It's a lot like this gettinginto this work right.
There's so much uncertainty.
It's the uncertainty of what'sgoing to come up when you're
quiet and you're still to saythis may, might be unlikely.
Unlikely, like you know, peopleoften have the misconception
(27:52):
that meditation always makes youfeel better, and I'm like no,
sometimes you feel worse, butthat's not the point.
That's not the point, though.
Right the point is kind of bepresent for whatever's showing
up now, and that's not alwaysgreat, um, but to me it's like
it takes courage every time toslow down, to take the deep
breaths, to realize you'reuncomfortable even, and
(28:15):
sometimes you realize you'reactually great right.
You're like actually I feelcentered, I feel good.
Um, I think we're very attachedto the feeling of wanting to
feel good, just normal.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
But oh well, how about?
Yeah, I mean even the peoplesay all the time, oh, is this a
good thing?
And I, I'm like, well, I don'tknow Is going to therapy a good
thing.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
I mean, it's not your lead recession.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
I would say it's going to therapy, yeah, and then
you know let's define what thatis.
But yeah, I completely agreewith about this notion of
goodness and, yeah, our wantingeven just to say it's a good
life, that's that that we want.
We want that right, like wewant to live a good life.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
And that's not being selfish, it's saying you know, I
want to understand my ownsuffering, I want to understand
my own path so that I can showit better and be present for
people who are at whatever stage.
They're at right, whetherthey're having a joyful
experience, buying or sellingtheir house or they're not.
And you and I both dealt withpeople who are not selling or
buying for great reasons, right,like someone's passed away.
(29:18):
They're getting a divorce, likeit's not joyful, and how do we
be present with that space thatthey're in?
Right, they don't want the rah,rah, rah.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
They don't want the pictures at closing, right, they
don't want any of that, wouldyou agree that we are to some
degree?
Speaker 1 (29:39):
we are emotional shepherds, right.
Yeah, we're emotional and alsolike transaction shepherds right
, we're trying to also help themdo a thing buy this home or
sell this home, in addition tohelping them understand the
process and help them go throughtheir own process too.
It's I can't.
I don't know what otherprofession does other than a
therapist maybe.
Like you know, we get asnapshot into someone's life in
(30:01):
a very like intimate moment,right especially if they're
going through a divorce orsomeone's passed on or something
that's like.
We learn details about theirlife and how they live and
what's important to them, andit's like, oh, are we going to
people's homes?
literally, we walk people'shomes right yeah, there's a
level of trust there.
But yeah, anything else thatyou want to share about that.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
You have notes on that you've thought about in I
just uh, I just no, I think I'mpretty good.
I think we, I think anyone, canlisten to this and get a great
scope of how challenging realestate is and how meditation is
going to be the key.
Well, I'll say this yes For youand I, you and I have
(30:50):
determined that meditation is apart of who we are as people,
which, then, is a function ofwho we are as real estate agents
, right?
Speaker 1 (30:59):
Sure.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
They're not separate.
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
So this is just on a moresuperficial level.
We could talk about our realestate brand, but more
authentically, we could talkabout how we show up for people
in our professional life and howwe show up as a function of who
we are sure and, and you know,you and I've determined that
sitting still and quietly isgoing to be part of, you know,
(31:20):
the formula.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
There's some value there.
You know, and I don't know ifclients tell you this, but
clients will tell me sometimesthat, um, they're like, we don't
like, we don't know how you dothis job.
It's so stressful.
You're like it is stressful or,you know, you were just so calm
through the whole process.
I was like, maybe internallysometimes there is obviously
chaos happening in my system,but I'm like that's not, I don't
want to put, that's not theirproblem right I don't put that
(31:42):
on them or like our transactionsnormally this chaotic I'm like
no, this was definitely one ofthem.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
More you know but I I I'll say that to clients all
the time because they'll thinkthat, in terms of problem
transaction, this is like a 10and like, yeah, it's like a four
yeah, do you tell.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
Do you tell them that I do?
Speaker 2 (32:03):
oh, you do okay I try to let them know that how
serious things are and prettynormal?
Speaker 1 (32:10):
yeah, it's.
It's challenging to figure outlike when to acknowledge that
for them, when to be like letthem have their own experience
about how hard I mean.
Some people are only going tobuy one house in their lifetime
right and it is a.
It is a lot like it's anemotional, it's an upheaval of
every aspect of their lives, andso for them, it's like this was
the most stressful thing I'veever done.
I'm like I from my perspectiveit was a four, but from their
(32:32):
perspective it was a 10.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
Well, and that's true , and that's absolutely true,
and I think that you, there's agreat fine line like
acknowledging where they are,with providing the confidence
that, hey, I've been here beforeand I'm going to get you
through.
You know this stretch ofnavigation.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
I go back to the analogy of surgery.
Right, I may only be in surgeryone time, and so to me, the
process and the recovery is likethis is, oh my God, this is
taking weeks and weeks, andweeks and whatever.
And the surgeon is like yeah,you're on track, this is normal.
And you're like this is normalrecovery, like that's crazy.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
Or you know it takes about that long and you're
experiencing as normal andyou're like oh Well as we wrap
(33:26):
up here, one of the questionsI'd like to ask I ask my team
this at every one of ourmeetings is tell me something
that is delighting you right now.
So the first thing that poppedin my head is my younger son.
Yeah, Of my two sons, he's theone that's a little more up and
down, a little more teenagedrama.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
Sure, how old is he?
Speaker 2 (33:37):
He is 16 years old.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
Okay, so you're in the thick of teenage drama.
Speaker 2 (33:43):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and just right now we are on a good
roll communication-wise, sothat is 100% delighting me.
Taking the wins, yeah,absolutely.
That's a great question, though.
What's delighting you?
I love that question becauseit's a gratitude question
without using the word gratitude, which there's nothing wrong
with, but that's a great way toask that question.
Speaker 1 (34:08):
Right as a pandemic hit.
I listened to a podcast thattalked about this book called
the book of delights, and itvery quickly became my favorite
book all right, there you go.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
Well, you tend to find what you're looking for,
right exactly right it?
Speaker 1 (34:24):
that delight radar just pops up a little bit and
then you start noticing thesethings and I'm like I had like
five delights today.
Thank you for sharing that.
Thank you for your time, Steve.
I appreciate this very much.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
Thank you for the opportunity to appreciate the
conversation.
Speaker 1 (34:38):
Well, I look forward to continuing the conversation
ongoing and I'm sure we'll catchup.
Are you going to Denver?
Speaker 2 (34:43):
Going to Denver.
I will be there.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
I will see you there.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
Sounds good.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
Thanks so much.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
All right, thank you.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
Bye, steve Bye.
Wow, I hope you enjoyed thatepisode as much as I did and
learned some valuable thingsfrom another veteran agent.
Steve shared some real nuggetsof wisdom in his two decades
almost of being a real estateagent and lessons he's learned
through that time, and I hopeyou found that useful.
(35:11):
Thank you for joining me onthis episode of the Rested and
Rich Real Estate Agent.
If you found this episode useful, it would mean so much to me if
you would share it with acolleague in your office and I
have an upcoming course comingup starting in May and it's
going to be called the AgentStress Solution and it is really
taking a lot of thesecomponents of mindfulness
(35:32):
practices and really diggingdeep into how we apply this in
our day to day lives as realestate agents, both for
ourselves, our clients throughtransactions and through
stressful things that we dealwith in our industry.
And I'd also like to ask you afavor, which is that if you
think someone would be a greatguest on this podcast who
incorporates mindfulness intotheir real estate practice even
(35:54):
a loan officer or something inthe real estate space I would
love to see if they would beopen to a conversation with me
on this podcast, since it's new.
I'm looking to connect withother like-minded agents across
the nation.
If you are one of those people,or you know someone, please
create an introduction.
You can find all my contactinformation in the show notes.
Thanks again, so much forjoining me and until next time
(36:17):
be well.
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