August 28, 2024 • 34 mins
Heather talks with Jane Qin Medeiros, General Manager/EVP at Industry Dive and studioID. In this episode, Jane shares how these companies are combining niche audience data with cutting-edge content marketing to drive significant revenue growth.
Jane is an executive advisory board member of H2K Labs' new C-suite network, Revenue Room™ Connect. Revenue Room™ Connect helps leaders in media, events, data/information and marketplace businesses fuel enterprise value by leveraging data, digital and AI.
Here are some key takeaways:
- Understanding Your Audience: "The ability to understand not just who the audience is but also what they care about—and, just as importantly, what they don’t care about—allows us to deliver content that is both timely and impactful."
- Leveraging AI Wisely: "We don’t have to be first to market with every new technology, but we do want to ensure that any technology we adopt supports our core values of quality, credibility, and audience engagement."
- Proving ROI in Content Marketing: "By taking a holistic approach to ROI, we ensure that our content marketing efforts are not only effective but also clearly linked to the client’s broader business objectives."
ATTEND REVVEDUP 2025
RevvedUP is an event designed specifically for CEOs and their C-Suite teams leading B2B/B2C media, event, information, data and marketplace businesses. Join the industry leaders and visionaries leveraging digital, data assets and AI to drive exceptional growth and superior enterprise value. To register and learn more, please visit https://www.accelevents.com/e/revvedup-2025.
ABOUT H2K LABS
H2K Labs is a tech-enabled value creation specialist that helps media, data/information, event, and marketplace businesses accelerate revenue, drive profitability, and fuel enterprise value using data, digital, and AI. We host The Revenue Room™ Podcast, curate Revenue Room™ Connect, a professional network for CEO and their revenue-critical C-Suite teams, and produce events including RevvedUP 2025. For more information, please visit https://www.h2klabs.com
To join Revenue Room™ Connect, please visit https://info.h2klabs.com/revenue-room-connect-information-request
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to the Revenue Roompresented by H2K Labs.
(00:04):
Here's your host, Heather HoltzGnudson.
Hello, and welcome to therevenue room podcast, where we
talk about everything data,digital AI, and revenue.
Today, I'm delighted to welcomeJane Chin Medeiros, the general
(00:25):
manager of industry dive andstudio ID, the leading B2B
digital media company serving 14million audience members across
the globe.
37 publications, I would say 37verticals too, but we'll get
into that when we get into ourquestions.
She focuses on StudioID,Industry Dive's global content
marketing services group.
Previously, Jane was the SVP ofcustomer success at NewsCred.
(00:48):
Jane was born in Beijing, grewup in California, and now lives
in New Jersey with her husbandand two children.
Welcome, Jane.
Thank you so much, Heather.
It's such a pleasure to be here.
Tell us a little bit about yourcareer and what led you up to
Industry Dive.
Sure.
Happy to do that.
Like you already mentioned, I ama general manager at Industry
Dive, concentrating on StudioID, which is our global content
(01:11):
marketing services group.
I joined Industry Dive aboutfour years ago when Industry
Dive acquired the content studioat my previous company,
NewsCred, and I actually know,Exactly to the day that that
happened because it was also thedue date for my daughter, Ada.
So, so we always call her ouracquisition baby actually.
(01:32):
But let me tell you a little bitabout that journey.
Industry Dive, we are a B2Bmedia company.
We're in the business ofbuilding niche audiences, right?
Everything from Constructionexecutives to banking executives
to healthcare executives, andthen we want to serve them well
with high quality, compellingjournalism, and we want to
(01:53):
monetize that to B2B marketersspecifically.
And what we were starting to seeat industry dive is, hey, we
have all of these valuableaudiences.
We have incredible data thatallows us to know not only who
they are, but what theirpreferences are and which topics
they care about, which topicsthey don't.
And we were also starting to seeat Industry Dive, the growth of
(02:13):
what was a smaller brand studiowhere we were actually helping
B2B marketers create customcontent to reach these audiences
more effectively.
And that's the first time Italked to Sean Griffey, our CEO.
I was five months pregnant.
We were in New York right beforethe pandemic and my business,
The one that I'd been working onfor over a decade is actually
building up a content marketingstrategy and consulting and
(02:38):
content development shop, reallytargeted to enterprise clients,
helping them think along theentire marketing journey to
reach those audiences and bringthem in ultimately convert them
to leads and customers.
So it seemed like a really greatintersection, right?
On one hand, we had thesevaluable audiences.
On the other hand, and nothingreally happens without having
(02:58):
the people and the expertise andthe ability to actually bring
that to life for our clients.
And that's where the journeywith Industry Dive started.
And if you'll fast forward fouryears, we spent a lot of time
really bringing together what isStudioID today.
But beyond that, we spent a lotof time thinking about what.
The industry dive platform istoday, and we actually call it a
(03:21):
brand to demand that kind ofplatform for marketers really
thinking about, Hey, along thatmarketing journey for B2B
marketers, there's more to itthan driving a lead or getting a
name and a number.
It's really starting out with,Hey, you don't know my brand.
Let me help you see that mybrand exists, reaching the right
audiences from there.
That's not enough, right?
It's a, how do we actuallycreate a relationship with the
(03:43):
people who are ultimately goingto become our customers?
How do we know what their painpoints are?
What is going to get themforward in their industries and
in their careers?
How do we connect with that?
And then we have the right tosay, okay, we have solutions and
services and products that canactually serve you well for your
business.
So really thinking about brand,thinking about.
The relationship that you wantto cultivate with customers.
(04:05):
And I'm also thinking aboutobviously converting those
audiences to folks who becomecustomers one day as well.
And here we are today.
That's so interesting.
You had the content expertiseand skills, but didn't have the
audience.
Industry Dive had the audience,but didn't have the content
studio capabilities, which isreally critical, especially when
(04:27):
you're going upstream.
So it actually is a beautifulmarriage.
And I love the brand to demand.
We didn't call it that when Iwas running a manufacturing
enterprise communications, but Ialways used to say it's like
vision to decision or start theconversation early and stay
there.
You can't just do one thing.
You've got to establish who youare, but also not just a brand,
but your expertise and then hitthese people and be there for
(04:51):
them when they need you.
In all strategic ways andcontent is.
I think a big mistake a lot ofthese vendors make when they
write their own content with notgetting that third party
perspective or industry depth isit becomes too promotional.
They just can't help it.
Whereas if they have somebodyworking with them to really get
the thought leadership down,that's terrific.
(05:11):
With that, how has industry diveleveraged?
Its vast audience data to helpstudio IDs, content development
strategies.
Absolutely.
I think it's a critical part ofwhat we do at Industry Dive, but
also what we do for Video Bmarketers at Studio ID as well.
The long and the short of it isthat it's not enough for
(05:31):
marketers to simply have thedemographic information about
audiences.
Right.
A lot of marketers come in andsay, these are the people that I
am trying to reach.
I would like.
I would like them to become mycustomer symbol as that.
And actually in order to makethose names and those numbers,
willing to talk to you, willingto engage with you, thinking
(05:54):
well of your brand, you actuallyneed to know a lot more about
them, right?
And that's where industry divesdata comes in.
And in fact, Sean and I oftentalk about how.
There's not really anyone betterthan niche media companies with
first party data capabilities toreally advise marketers on how
to reach those audiencesappropriately.
So some of the things that weknow, we certainly know who
(06:17):
these folks are.
We know that.
They are interested inparticular types of content,
interested in particular topics.
Importantly, we know what theyare not interested in anymore.
That's something that's realtime and evolving so quickly
when industries are changing soquickly.
And the new cycle is so quick aswell.
And we also know theirpreferences, right?
(06:37):
We know when they like to engagewith content.
We know how they like to engagewith content.
And in some ways, if you thinkabout any individual and we have
our preferences, For when we goto the supermarket or when we go
to the gym, or for me, it's whenI drop off my children at
daycare or pick them up.
And if you think about it from aprofessional setting, it's also
really thinking holisticallyabout, Hey, do I really know my
(06:58):
audiences?
Do I know my target customers?
And how do I actually relate tothem by creating the content in
the.
Right topics, uh, with the rightangles.
How do I intersect that to whatI do on the right channels and
the right formats?
Right.
In many ways, the beauty of whatwe do at industry dive is we
serve the audience and byserving the audience, we can
also monetize and serve ourclients as well, through our
(07:20):
data, through our platform,through our expertise.
Yeah, I would say that's rightprospect, right topic, right
time, right channel, rightformat.
And actually, you said somethingquite interesting in this part,
which is, it's essentiallyempowering your sellers to truly
be consultants.
To their customers, it's notjust 1st party data for the sake
(07:45):
of delivering 1st party data tothe advertiser.
It's actually giving this depthand breadth of knowledge to
customers so that theirinvestments.
Are maximized, which in turn hashuge value back to the business
because I'm assuming it means alonger lifetime value, larger
lifetime value, more walletshare, stickier customers.
(08:05):
And actually, which leads me tomy next question, which is these
strategies and hopefully you'reallowed to talk about the
percent of revenue that studioID brings to industry dive.
But.
It's 40 percent from when wespoke.
So that's a significant amountof revenue.
What were the key strategiesthat were crucial to driving
that?
But then on top of the directrevenue, there's what I call the
(08:29):
revenue halo effect, like all ofthese other wonderful things we
love about revenue to makerevenue healthier, get into
different types of customersegments.
So if you could dive into thatloaded question, that'd be
great.
No, for sure.
Wow.
Where do we even start withthis?
Yeah, there's a lot.
I'll start by saying that withinour.
Content studio business, thereis actually two cohorts of
(08:50):
business that really feed offeach other really well on one
side is a lot of what I thinkmany media companies do in their
custom content studios, which isrun for us thousands of content
campaigns every single year.
That's creating a white paper,doing a lead generation
campaign, helping a client reachour audiences.
And, and generate demand, uh, onthe other side of the business,
(09:13):
there's what we would considerour enterprise business.
And a lot of that business isannualized, right?
It's, uh, big partnerships,engagements.
We're working with folks whoare.
Higher up in the marketingorganization who have better
oversight over, let's call itthe digital media side of the
world, as well as the contentmarketing side of the world, as
well as the brand side of theworld.
(09:35):
When we look at all of thecampaign work that we do, our
goal is to make that efficientand scalable, but to bring all
of the insights and quality thatwe can for our enterprise
customers.
And I would also say thecampaign side of the business,
that's where we do a lot of,Hey, are these clients, are
these marketers, are theseorganizations mature enough for
(09:57):
us to try to take it bigger withthem, to try to take it farther
with them as well.
On the other side of thebusiness, the enterprise
business.
Now that's where a lot more ofthe customization, more of the
strategy development.
Uh, comes in.
And when we have those biggerpartnerships, it gives us room
to do a little bit more to thinkabout.
(10:18):
Okay, here's all the ways we canreach our audience.
Here's all the ways that we candevelop content for those
audiences.
Let's really build a program,right?
Let's build a measurementframework.
Let's talk about goals.
Let's talk about what the rightstrategy is on.
Let's work together reallyflexibly to think about.
Quarter on quarter, month onmonth, what's working, what's
not, what's performing reallywell, what's not.
(10:40):
How do our blog articles onyour.
com tie into the landing pagesthat are going to collect names,
right?
And so these two sides of thebusiness really help us do two
things.
One, to your point, it's reallygrowing longer term
relationships that are morerobust and more effective.
that are multi threaded within amarketing organization.
And then on the other hand, italso helped really kind of scale
(11:02):
the business as well, right?
Because you have kind of smallpieces of revenue coming in
every single day from thesecampaigns.
And I think that when we do ourbest work, we're really drawing
longer term partnerships, almostfrom a pipeline of campaign
clients.
And we've seen that happen a lotwhere you earn your credibility
by doing a really great whitepaper, a really great playbook,
(11:24):
a really great webinar.
Uh, and you earn the right totalk to them about the other
capabilities that we can bringto the table as well.
And so that's the strategy.
It's certainly maintaining ahigh degree of efficiency and
scale and thinking about all theways that we can continue to
grow efficiency, but at the endof the day, it's actually, Hey,
I think every single one of ourcampaign clients can, should be
(11:46):
a partner to us, an enterpriseclient, how do we make sure to
surface those and kind of bringthem into our enterprise
business with all that we haveto offer.
It's interesting.
It's like a land and expand.
Strategy on both sides, so themarketing side is a pipeline for
studio.
I.
D.
and studio.
I.
D.
is a pipeline for marketingservices.
(12:08):
And the other part again, isthat being able to let's say
they have an agency who's doingthe buying being able to
actually.
Have a relationship at thecustomer level is a huge bonus
for many different reasons andthose in advertising will know
what those are.
For industry, we certainly havemany agency partners, but our
primary business is workingdirect to brand.
(12:28):
And it's exactly for the reasonsthat you said, Heather, it's
really, we do our best work whenwe can be partners with
marketing leaders, when we canhelp influence through our data
and our expertise, how they puttogether their strategies.
And we see better results whenwe're actually working directly
with them.
Thank you.
That's part of it.
No, absolutely.
Because everything you do isabout content, how are you
(12:48):
managing the opportunity with AIto help you with the business,
but then also the, what I callthe walls you put in place of,
we're not going there becauseit's too risky or we don't know
enough.
Yeah, absolutely.
Uh, as you can imagine a hottopic of discussion everywhere
and certainly a lot ofdiscussion on that at Studio ID
and Industry Dive as well.
(13:09):
First I'll startphilosophically, right?
One of the things that I'veheard Sean sometimes say is we
don't have to be first tomarket, but we can be really
great fast followers and I thinkwhat we mean when we say that is
actually about safeguarding thequality of what we're able to do
and making sure that sometechnologies like AI mature to a
point point where we are reallyfeeling good about protecting
(13:32):
some of our core things, right?
Which is at the end of the day,it's quality content.
It's credible content.
It's making sure that we'reserving the audience well and
serving our clients well.
Within that, I actually thinksome folks think that.
AI is just another one of thesethings.
Many people think that AI isgoing to destroy everything.
And there's all the folks inbetween.
The way that we're approachingit at Studio and Industry Dive
(13:53):
is to really actually test it.
Test and then implement when wefeel like there, there's a real
advantage to bringing AI intoone of our capabilities.
Uh, whether that's for theaudience or whether that's for.
Markers as well right now, whatwe have tested are things like
in the content space, it wouldbe things like AI for
copywriting, right?
AI for original contentcreation, AI for short form
(14:15):
copy, uh, longer form content,AI for content atomization.
Uh, and I actually think that,uh, today the power of AI might
not necessarily be in the, howdo you develop content with AI
space it's in all the power ofmachine learning and AI to
actually.
Crunch numbers and come up withinsights and help you actually
operate the business or come upwith the right insights to fuel
(14:37):
the business, as opposed tosaying, AI can help us actually
create content or replace, uh,humans and creating content.
And one of the reasons I saythat is because when we look at
where AI is with technology, ourtesting has shown that it
actually works fairly well whenit comes to, I want to say, the
secondary needed tasks to.
(14:58):
Polish up content or to atomizecontent or to translate content,
but original research andexpertise, that's literally not
what AI does.
And so that part of actuallyhaving AI originate content is
not something that we're doingright now.
And it's just because thetechnology is not good enough.
So for us, it's actually thatthe methodology that we're using
(15:18):
is to make sure that we'reactually testing the different
aspects of AI that areavailable.
Running kind of experiments withit long before we actually take
that to market and put that infront of our customers or have
AI creating any of our content.
No, I agree 100%.
At this point, you can't reallyreplace the human judgment or
opinion or emotion and whetherit's.
(15:41):
Business media, unless you'rejust reporting news, that's part
of the content equation.
So on the audience side, are youable to use AI to predict
audience preferences or anengagement level with a piece of
content at this point?
So I would say that we've useddifferent flavors of AI machine
(16:03):
learning over the years to helpspecifically with aligning
audiences with their topicalpreferences.
That's where we use technology.
I would also say that if you askMegan McCoskey, who's my partner
and our head of product at thismoment in time, still no
substitute and our best tool foraudience engagement is.
Is having a deep knowledge oftarget audiences.
(16:24):
It is making sure that we'reproducing high quality
journalism and ultimately beingreally laser focused on the
topics and the types of contentthat really resonate.
So there's aspects of it andwe're going to keep looking at
it, but at the moment, I thinkthere's still.
Going to be for a while to comea big focus on kind of the, the
people and the expertise that wecan bring to the table.
(16:45):
Um, now, Sean said something theother day that I really
appreciate it, which is ifanyone is worrying about the
impact of the simple answer isthat we have to be better than a
better work than a, and I thinkthat that really resonates with
me.
Yes, I think you could add in,we have to be better than AI and
we have to leverage AI to ourbenefits.
(17:06):
There's a lot of opportunitythat I see out there and I think
being scared isn't really goingto get anyone where they need to
go.
The one thing I'm excited aboutaround AI from our experiments
is a little bit specific.
It's in this world of contentatomization of taking something
that.
An expert or a set of expertshas produced, for example, a big
research paper or a big whitepaper or a set of campaigns.
(17:29):
And then thinking about how wetake that originality, that's
housed in our humans, right?
And, uh, translated more quicklyto the right channels, uh, to
the right formats, to the rightways that we can communicate
that to the audience.
And that I think is somethingthat we are excited about at
StudioID and hopefully that'ssomething that can, you know,
(17:50):
Live up to what we're trying toachieve, which is create high
quality content as efficientlyas possible, right?
For example, this podcast,right?
We're done.
We'll have the recording.
We'll have the transcript.
So what AI could do is you couldupload the transcript and say
Take this transcript and for ouraudience, because you trained
(18:11):
the bot, what would be threegreat blogs to come out of it?
What would be the five socialmedia posts?
What part should be littlesnippets of video that would
resonate?
Is that what you mean byatomize?
Yes.
That's my new word.
And sometimes that's justtechnology, right?
But I do see that.
That's something we're trying toimplement more at Studio ID is
(18:31):
turning something that wouldhave taken two weeks into
something that would take twodays, but not getting in the way
of the originality of the workthat we need to create.
That leads me to anotherquestion, which is the ROI
equation, right?
You've got the part of theinvestment that customers are
making with you in creating thiscontent, the white papers, the
playbooks, research, et cetera.
(18:53):
That is one level.
Let's say they don't do anythingelse with you.
They just want you to create thecontent.
How do you assess the ROI forthe client?
And then as you move on, it getsclear as you start marketing it
in on the industry divechannels.
But if you could talk throughthat a little bit more, that
would be great.
Sure.
Yeah.
The ROI of, of marketing.
Yeah.
That's an offsite, Heather.
(19:13):
That's something, let me getinto it a little bit.
So the first thing I'll sayaround this is that marketing
ROI is.
Frankly, a hard to prove outfrom a causation standpoint in a
lot of ways.
Right.
And that's okay.
We have the advantage atindustry dive of having a highly
consultative sales team and ahighly consultative client
services team, right?
Including our studio ID contentstrategists, our enterprise
(19:36):
program managers.
And a lot of what they do istake, for example.
A lead report, right?
And how many leads did yougenerate from this campaign and
talk to the client and consultthe client about what that
actually means, right?
So for example, one of thethings we're constantly talking
to clients about is folks whocome to us and say, Hey, the
leads were good, but they're notconverting.
(19:57):
And so we can then dig into,okay, why, what are the other
activities that we're doingaround these leads?
Did you call these folks thenext day?
Because that's probably not theintended purpose for the
original campaign that we putout the door.
Have you tried this?
Would you like to work togetheron this?
So I think part of it is thespecific metrics that we're
trying to hit.
(20:18):
And then part of it is actually.
Helping the client make sense ofthat, right?
And helping the client take anext step in moving that farther
along.
As we get larger in ourcustomers set and more
partnership oriented or moreenterprise focused, one of the
things that we've done for along time is start our
partnerships, our annualpartnerships, talking about a
measurement framework.
(20:39):
Right, really talking about,okay, here's the journey that
your customers are going to takewith you.
Here's a journey you want themto take with you.
What are the key metrics that wewant to be looking at?
And that could be across contentengagement.
It can be across impressions,right?
But really tying that to what isthe goal of that?
So if one of the goals is builda brand, what are the proxy
metrics that can show us thatyou're building brand equity?
(21:01):
If one of the goals is.
Creating content engagement at,uh, multiple points in a year.
How do we actually look at that?
And what are the sources of datawe have to actually look at that
together?
Uh, and then finally, reallythinking about what does
conversion look like for you?
Oftentimes that is QLs or numberof leads created, but sometimes
it's beyond that.
Sometimes it's how much revenuehave you influenced, but once we
(21:23):
build that measurementframework, then we really
oriented all of our activities,uh, our reporting or
consultation boards.
Okay.
I think that we're not gettingthe MQLs that we need because we
need to do more up funnel,right?
Or have you thought about takingthis tactic or launching an
email newsletter to make surethat we're promoting engagement
and loyalty throughout youractivities with clients?
(21:46):
So the long and short of it isthat really establishing a
measurement framework issomething that can help anchor a
partnership.
And then when it comes time forrenewals and upsells, we have
something to look to as well.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Again, start the conversationearly and stay there.
I used to always get amazed.
We would get clients would say,yeah, we generated these leads.
They hit, they fit the ICP andthe buyer persona and all of the
(22:08):
things we want, but they're notconverting.
And then it's seven to 10 touchpoints.
At least that's what it used tobe in the old days.
Now they're saying it's likeanywhere from 18 to 20, but
before a buyer is going toengage with you.
So what other things do we dowhile they're lurking around and
doing research to make sureyou're front and center?
Okay.
In all those core places.
Absolutely.
The trend is clear, right?
(22:30):
Buyer committees have increasedthe amount of independent
research buyers are doing is aton more than even a few years
ago.
Folks don't necessarily want orneed to talk to a sales
representative as early in thecycle as they used to.
And now we have.
better ways to think about andknow when people are actually
evaluating a solution versus notin market as well.
(22:53):
And part of it is actually beingable to create those
relationships before they're inmarket so that you are top of
mind when they are in market fora solution.
One of the other things I'llpoint out here that, you know,
we talk a lot about here atStudio ID specifically is for a
lot of media companies, when wethink about content and content
ROI.
We, for example, with contentcreation, what we're doing is
(23:14):
helping advise a client ondeveloping a piece of content.
That's meant to live on ourmedia channels, right?
It's the channel that we putout.
And oftentimes we're not alwaysreally thinking about, okay,
somebody clicks on an ad and getan impression.
What's on the other side ofthat, right?
Cause that's going to reallyimpact the client's ROI as well.
(23:34):
And that's one of the things wedo a lot of, which is we're not
just looking at Measurement.
And we're not just creatingstrategies and content for our
paid media channels.
We're creating it for the clientfor the marketing organization.
And that could include for thewebsites that they want to
build, right?
It could be for their socialchannels.
(23:55):
It can be for their own emailnewsletters, right?
And at the end of the day,actually, the wealth of data and
first party data insights andexpertise we need about
audience.
That spans the entire kind ofmarketing stack and journey for
marketers.
It's not just in this corner ofwhat can we do for our channels.
And that's one of the reasonswhy we're able to think about
(24:18):
longer term partnerships aswell.
Because when we're creatingcontent, we're often thinking
about.
Okay, here's what lives on yourdot com and your blog, and
here's how it relates to thisadvertising campaign that we're
going to put on Retail Dad.
Right.
I just had an idea there.
So you literally could say, it'snot just this content, as you
said, but because you have somuch data about the audience,
(24:40):
You could go beyond justadvising about what's on the
other side on the website, butit's like, how does the
salesperson follow up with thattype of client?
What kinds of assets do you addto support what they engaged
with?
Even what is the sequence thatis put in place for that
customer journey?
You're really getting into truepipeline partnership there.
(25:00):
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
All right.
I'm going to move into somefuturistic questions.
My first one is how as abusiness, as industry dive,
looking at the future,especially in light of what's
happening with data, digital andAI and its growth strategy,
because it's not going to bebusiness as usual.
(25:21):
Yeah, absolutely.
I'll talk more specificallyabout how we're looking at it,
but I would also sayfoundationally, and this is what
I believe, right, is that theoutcomes are the same.
I, I don't actually think thatthe core of what we're trying to
achieve isn't necessarilydifferent.
I think we'll just have a lotmore.
As we always do to, to deal witha lot more tools at our
(25:44):
disposal, but when it comes tothe core of what we see as a
successful modern mediabusiness, it's really about
making sure that we're servingthe audience, the channels, the
tools, the ways we do it mightchange, but are we building a
valuable niche audiences and arewe delivering high quality
independent journalism to them?
(26:04):
Are we helping them in the waysthat we need to, and ultimately
for the Client side of thehouse.
It's really about making surethat we're building centric
content campaigns andpartnerships.
Now I will say morespecifically, Industry Dive, we,
for the last 12 years, I thinkin some ways we're well
positioned, right?
(26:25):
We've always been, and we'vealways talked about opt in
audiences and first party data,and I think that.
In light of what's happeningwith privacy, uh, and all of the
kind of data stuff that's goingon out there, that's something
that, uh, we hope will, uh, helpus, and it's something that we
want to continue to focus on,uh, and cultivate as well.
When it comes to content, right,and, and AI, it's, it's what we
(26:49):
talked about around making surethat it's a.
Tool in our toolkit that helpsus create better journalism and
engage audiences better and helpour clients be able to, to get
more ROI and the power of kindof the integration and the
platform.
And this is part of why we're soexcited to be a part of Informa.
So I think the path is really,uh, clear for us.
(27:09):
It's very similar to thestrategy we've had.
Now, how do we blow that out andhave some of these tailwinds and
new tools at our disposal?
That's the kind of stuff thatI'm pretty excited to figure out
in the future.
I'm going to turn it over to howyou and I are now working
together, and I'm really superexcited about this.
So, we have a product now forexecutives like yourself, who
(27:32):
are data driven, and in a Csuite role called Revenue Room
Connect, and you are one of ourfirst Executive Advisory Board
members.
I am so excited and very honoredto be a part of it.
And what excites you about theopportunity?
Why'd you pay attention to myemail?
Yeah, absolutely.
Um, outside of the fact that Ihave a lot of respect for you,
(27:55):
Heather, there's, I think the,the revenue centricity of it,
but actually bringing together alot of folks with different
backgrounds.
When you say revenue, right?
It's actually a lot of differentthings.
It's not just the commercialpeople thinking about the
finances and it's actually not.
In a separate world of theeditorial folks thinking about
audiences or the audiencedevelopment people.
(28:16):
One of the things I've alwaysbeen passionate about as someone
who likes to work across manydifferent swim lanes is the
intersection of all of thosethings in order to create a
sustainable and long lasting andprofitable business.
Sean often talks about howactually for a media company,
you need to look at.
Content strategy.
You need to look at audiencestrategy.
(28:36):
You need to think aboutmonetization strategy.
And actually it's a little bitof a trifecta and all of these
things actually impact ourability to be successful as a
company.
Now, revenue flows across thatstrategy.
And that's what I'm excitedabout is to really think about
the different.
Ways that other folks and peoplein the industry are actually
(28:57):
tackling the many things thatactually impact revenue.
And I also think that there's alittle bit of a rising tide
lifts off ships.
We're all in the same space thenwhen we have experts and folks
talking together and also reallytalking about not just the sunny
side of it, but some of thechallenges and fears that we
have.
I think it can be valuableacross a lot of businesses.
(29:17):
And certainly I'm excited tolearn a lot from others as well.
No, thank you.
I appreciate that.
And it really is the essence ofthis idea of the revenue room.
It isn't just sales.
It's not just customer success.
It's all together.
It's product.
It's audience.
It's anything that touches thecustomer has an impact on the
customer.
Revenue and I could even use theexample of if you're selling
(29:41):
advertising and sponsorship onone side and you're selling
subscriptions, that's allrevenue, like that all fits
together and they are symbioticin many different ways because
you could have just a verybaseline example is you could
have advertisers who aresubscribers or advertising
prospects.
They're engaged with your brandand they have spent some money.
So there is a predictor there ofsome kind of if that's a
(30:03):
prospect and we haven't closedthem.
But they're paying for asubscription to our content.
What are we doing to push themover to the other side to make
them an advertiser?
Right?
Connect the dots.
Lisa, thank you for inviting me.
I'm super excited to get thatkicked off.
Just some fun rapid firequestions I always like to do at
the end.
What's an unusual thing aboutyour career that most people
(30:25):
don't know?
I started my career as a financeand bankruptcy litigator.
I'm a career changer in a bigway.
And actually you mentioned atthe beginning, I was born in
China, grew up in California,growing up and going into
college, like one, I just didn'tknow anything about careers.
Didn't have the institutionalhistory to know how to approach
(30:46):
it.
So there was a little bit of,Oh, I don't know.
Sure.
Go into a, B or C.
The other part of it is that Ialways thought I would go into
politics and kind of be able toimpact public policy in some
way.
Now, like many folks, I, I cameout of the law school system
and, uh, started working at abig law firm in New York city.
And pretty soon I realized that,um, especially as a young
(31:08):
associate, a lot of what we doin the law is to protect people.
In my opinion, it felt likeprotecting the status quo.
And it turns out, uh, after Somediscovery and some, frankly,
just some hustling.
I really love business.
I love creativity.
I like working with a lot ofpeople to brainstorm and then
implement business ideas.
So I feel very lucky that I goton this path.
(31:32):
And oftentimes I advise youngfolks, if you're thinking about
making a big move, do it earlierrather than later, because then
you can probably wouldn't beable to make that same decision
today.
Two kids and then a few moreobligations than before.
I'll say that the industry isvery lucky to have you.
So I'm very glad you decided tojump the legal ship.
So what song do you love to singwhen you drive by yourself?
(31:54):
Gosh, I love these questions.
Nobody ever asked me thesequestions.
For a long time, I tried to bevery interesting and cool.
And it turns out, Heather, I'mjust not.
So my safe space is actually a90s R& B of the boys band.
So, uh, anything on theEvolution album, I am all in.
Alright, that's awesome.
(32:15):
And what book have you readrecently that really made a
mark?
I'll first say that I don't wantto represent that I read so much
for fun anymore.
I read a lot of children'sbooks, but I did recently read,
uh, Great book.
It's called, uh, BeautifulCountry and it's by a woman
named Tian Jilin Huang.
And it's a little bit of amemoir, a little bit of her
(32:37):
story and specifically her storyas it relates to being an
immigrant, uh, and how itimpacted her.
And her relationship with herfamily.
And I just thought it was sobeautifully written.
But as a Chinese Americanimmigrant, I am always pleased
and feel so closely connected toAsian American authors who are
(32:58):
actually helping us tell ourcollective stories more and more
in the public sphere.
No, I love that.
I'm actually going to get that.
Yeah, I, I love Asian Americanauthors too.
Listen, thank you.
This has been so enlighteningand inspiring and just chock
full of information for othermedia companies who are looking
to deploy a content studiostrategy.
(33:19):
And anything you'd like to closeout or add before we say
goodbye?
No, I'm so grateful for theopportunity to come on the
podcast and to chit chat withyou.
For anyone out there, one of thethings I really am is I'm really
nerdy about marketing.
And I love to talk shop.
I love to talk business.
So an invitation for anyone toreach out to me on LinkedIn if
(33:39):
you want to have a chat.
That's great.
All right, everyone.
Thanks so much, Jane.
And we will see you soon.
All right.
See you soon.
You can find us at h2klabs.
com.
Thank you.
Thank you for listening to TheRevenue Room, by H2K Labs.
Subscribe to our channel today.
Welcome to the Revenue Roompresented by H2K Labs.
(00:04):
Here's your host, Heather HoltzGnudson.
Hello, and welcome to therevenue room podcast, where we
talk about everything data,digital AI, and revenue.
Today, I'm delighted to welcomeJane Chin Medeiros, the general
(00:25):
manager of industry dive andstudio ID, the leading B2B
digital media company serving 14million audience members across
the globe.
37 publications, I would say 37verticals too, but we'll get
into that when we get into ourquestions.
She focuses on StudioID,Industry Dive's global content
marketing services group.
Previously, Jane was the SVP ofcustomer success at NewsCred.
(00:48):
Jane was born in Beijing, grewup in California, and now lives
in New Jersey with her husbandand two children.
Welcome, Jane.
Thank you so much, Heather.
It's such a pleasure to be here.
Tell us a little bit about yourcareer and what led you up to
Industry Dive.
Sure.
Happy to do that.
Like you already mentioned, I ama general manager at Industry
Dive, concentrating on StudioID, which is our global content
(01:11):
marketing services group.
I joined Industry Dive aboutfour years ago when Industry
Dive acquired the content studioat my previous company,
NewsCred, and I actually know,Exactly to the day that that
happened because it was also thedue date for my daughter, Ada.
So, so we always call her ouracquisition baby actually.
(01:32):
But let me tell you a little bitabout that journey.
Industry Dive, we are a B2Bmedia company.
We're in the business ofbuilding niche audiences, right?
Everything from Constructionexecutives to banking executives
to healthcare executives, andthen we want to serve them well
with high quality, compellingjournalism, and we want to
(01:53):
monetize that to B2B marketersspecifically.
And what we were starting to seeat industry dive is, hey, we
have all of these valuableaudiences.
We have incredible data thatallows us to know not only who
they are, but what theirpreferences are and which topics
they care about, which topicsthey don't.
And we were also starting to seeat Industry Dive, the growth of
(02:13):
what was a smaller brand studiowhere we were actually helping
B2B marketers create customcontent to reach these audiences
more effectively.
And that's the first time Italked to Sean Griffey, our CEO.
I was five months pregnant.
We were in New York right beforethe pandemic and my business,
The one that I'd been working onfor over a decade is actually
building up a content marketingstrategy and consulting and
(02:38):
content development shop, reallytargeted to enterprise clients,
helping them think along theentire marketing journey to
reach those audiences and bringthem in ultimately convert them
to leads and customers.
So it seemed like a really greatintersection, right?
On one hand, we had thesevaluable audiences.
On the other hand, and nothingreally happens without having
(02:58):
the people and the expertise andthe ability to actually bring
that to life for our clients.
And that's where the journeywith Industry Dive started.
And if you'll fast forward fouryears, we spent a lot of time
really bringing together what isStudioID today.
But beyond that, we spent a lotof time thinking about what.
The industry dive platform istoday, and we actually call it a
(03:21):
brand to demand that kind ofplatform for marketers really
thinking about, Hey, along thatmarketing journey for B2B
marketers, there's more to itthan driving a lead or getting a
name and a number.
It's really starting out with,Hey, you don't know my brand.
Let me help you see that mybrand exists, reaching the right
audiences from there.
That's not enough, right?
It's a, how do we actuallycreate a relationship with the
(03:43):
people who are ultimately goingto become our customers?
How do we know what their painpoints are?
What is going to get themforward in their industries and
in their careers?
How do we connect with that?
And then we have the right tosay, okay, we have solutions and
services and products that canactually serve you well for your
business.
So really thinking about brand,thinking about.
The relationship that you wantto cultivate with customers.
(04:05):
And I'm also thinking aboutobviously converting those
audiences to folks who becomecustomers one day as well.
And here we are today.
That's so interesting.
You had the content expertiseand skills, but didn't have the
audience.
Industry Dive had the audience,but didn't have the content
studio capabilities, which isreally critical, especially when
(04:27):
you're going upstream.
So it actually is a beautifulmarriage.
And I love the brand to demand.
We didn't call it that when Iwas running a manufacturing
enterprise communications, but Ialways used to say it's like
vision to decision or start theconversation early and stay
there.
You can't just do one thing.
You've got to establish who youare, but also not just a brand,
but your expertise and then hitthese people and be there for
(04:51):
them when they need you.
In all strategic ways andcontent is.
I think a big mistake a lot ofthese vendors make when they
write their own content with notgetting that third party
perspective or industry depth isit becomes too promotional.
They just can't help it.
Whereas if they have somebodyworking with them to really get
the thought leadership down,that's terrific.
(05:11):
With that, how has industry diveleveraged?
Its vast audience data to helpstudio IDs, content development
strategies.
Absolutely.
I think it's a critical part ofwhat we do at Industry Dive, but
also what we do for Video Bmarketers at Studio ID as well.
The long and the short of it isthat it's not enough for
(05:31):
marketers to simply have thedemographic information about
audiences.
Right.
A lot of marketers come in andsay, these are the people that I
am trying to reach.
I would like.
I would like them to become mycustomer symbol as that.
And actually in order to makethose names and those numbers,
willing to talk to you, willingto engage with you, thinking
(05:54):
well of your brand, you actuallyneed to know a lot more about
them, right?
And that's where industry divesdata comes in.
And in fact, Sean and I oftentalk about how.
There's not really anyone betterthan niche media companies with
first party data capabilities toreally advise marketers on how
to reach those audiencesappropriately.
So some of the things that weknow, we certainly know who
(06:17):
these folks are.
We know that.
They are interested inparticular types of content,
interested in particular topics.
Importantly, we know what theyare not interested in anymore.
That's something that's realtime and evolving so quickly
when industries are changing soquickly.
And the new cycle is so quick aswell.
And we also know theirpreferences, right?
(06:37):
We know when they like to engagewith content.
We know how they like to engagewith content.
And in some ways, if you thinkabout any individual and we have
our preferences, For when we goto the supermarket or when we go
to the gym, or for me, it's whenI drop off my children at
daycare or pick them up.
And if you think about it from aprofessional setting, it's also
really thinking holisticallyabout, Hey, do I really know my
(06:58):
audiences?
Do I know my target customers?
And how do I actually relate tothem by creating the content in
the.
Right topics, uh, with the rightangles.
How do I intersect that to whatI do on the right channels and
the right formats?
Right.
In many ways, the beauty of whatwe do at industry dive is we
serve the audience and byserving the audience, we can
also monetize and serve ourclients as well, through our
(07:20):
data, through our platform,through our expertise.
Yeah, I would say that's rightprospect, right topic, right
time, right channel, rightformat.
And actually, you said somethingquite interesting in this part,
which is, it's essentiallyempowering your sellers to truly
be consultants.
To their customers, it's notjust 1st party data for the sake
(07:45):
of delivering 1st party data tothe advertiser.
It's actually giving this depthand breadth of knowledge to
customers so that theirinvestments.
Are maximized, which in turn hashuge value back to the business
because I'm assuming it means alonger lifetime value, larger
lifetime value, more walletshare, stickier customers.
(08:05):
And actually, which leads me tomy next question, which is these
strategies and hopefully you'reallowed to talk about the
percent of revenue that studioID brings to industry dive.
But.
It's 40 percent from when wespoke.
So that's a significant amountof revenue.
What were the key strategiesthat were crucial to driving
that?
But then on top of the directrevenue, there's what I call the
(08:29):
revenue halo effect, like all ofthese other wonderful things we
love about revenue to makerevenue healthier, get into
different types of customersegments.
So if you could dive into thatloaded question, that'd be
great.
No, for sure.
Wow.
Where do we even start withthis?
Yeah, there's a lot.
I'll start by saying that withinour.
Content studio business, thereis actually two cohorts of
(08:50):
business that really feed offeach other really well on one
side is a lot of what I thinkmany media companies do in their
custom content studios, which isrun for us thousands of content
campaigns every single year.
That's creating a white paper,doing a lead generation
campaign, helping a client reachour audiences.
And, and generate demand, uh, onthe other side of the business,
(09:13):
there's what we would considerour enterprise business.
And a lot of that business isannualized, right?
It's, uh, big partnerships,engagements.
We're working with folks whoare.
Higher up in the marketingorganization who have better
oversight over, let's call itthe digital media side of the
world, as well as the contentmarketing side of the world, as
well as the brand side of theworld.
(09:35):
When we look at all of thecampaign work that we do, our
goal is to make that efficientand scalable, but to bring all
of the insights and quality thatwe can for our enterprise
customers.
And I would also say thecampaign side of the business,
that's where we do a lot of,Hey, are these clients, are
these marketers, are theseorganizations mature enough for
(09:57):
us to try to take it bigger withthem, to try to take it farther
with them as well.
On the other side of thebusiness, the enterprise
business.
Now that's where a lot more ofthe customization, more of the
strategy development.
Uh, comes in.
And when we have those biggerpartnerships, it gives us room
to do a little bit more to thinkabout.
(10:18):
Okay, here's all the ways we canreach our audience.
Here's all the ways that we candevelop content for those
audiences.
Let's really build a program,right?
Let's build a measurementframework.
Let's talk about goals.
Let's talk about what the rightstrategy is on.
Let's work together reallyflexibly to think about.
Quarter on quarter, month onmonth, what's working, what's
not, what's performing reallywell, what's not.
(10:40):
How do our blog articles onyour.
com tie into the landing pagesthat are going to collect names,
right?
And so these two sides of thebusiness really help us do two
things.
One, to your point, it's reallygrowing longer term
relationships that are morerobust and more effective.
that are multi threaded within amarketing organization.
And then on the other hand, italso helped really kind of scale
(11:02):
the business as well, right?
Because you have kind of smallpieces of revenue coming in
every single day from thesecampaigns.
And I think that when we do ourbest work, we're really drawing
longer term partnerships, almostfrom a pipeline of campaign
clients.
And we've seen that happen a lotwhere you earn your credibility
by doing a really great whitepaper, a really great playbook,
(11:24):
a really great webinar.
Uh, and you earn the right totalk to them about the other
capabilities that we can bringto the table as well.
And so that's the strategy.
It's certainly maintaining ahigh degree of efficiency and
scale and thinking about all theways that we can continue to
grow efficiency, but at the endof the day, it's actually, Hey,
I think every single one of ourcampaign clients can, should be
(11:46):
a partner to us, an enterpriseclient, how do we make sure to
surface those and kind of bringthem into our enterprise
business with all that we haveto offer.
It's interesting.
It's like a land and expand.
Strategy on both sides, so themarketing side is a pipeline for
studio.
I.
D.
and studio.
I.
D.
is a pipeline for marketingservices.
(12:08):
And the other part again, isthat being able to let's say
they have an agency who's doingthe buying being able to
actually.
Have a relationship at thecustomer level is a huge bonus
for many different reasons andthose in advertising will know
what those are.
For industry, we certainly havemany agency partners, but our
primary business is workingdirect to brand.
(12:28):
And it's exactly for the reasonsthat you said, Heather, it's
really, we do our best work whenwe can be partners with
marketing leaders, when we canhelp influence through our data
and our expertise, how they puttogether their strategies.
And we see better results whenwe're actually working directly
with them.
Thank you.
That's part of it.
No, absolutely.
Because everything you do isabout content, how are you
(12:48):
managing the opportunity with AIto help you with the business,
but then also the, what I callthe walls you put in place of,
we're not going there becauseit's too risky or we don't know
enough.
Yeah, absolutely.
Uh, as you can imagine a hottopic of discussion everywhere
and certainly a lot ofdiscussion on that at Studio ID
and Industry Dive as well.
(13:09):
First I'll startphilosophically, right?
One of the things that I'veheard Sean sometimes say is we
don't have to be first tomarket, but we can be really
great fast followers and I thinkwhat we mean when we say that is
actually about safeguarding thequality of what we're able to do
and making sure that sometechnologies like AI mature to a
point point where we are reallyfeeling good about protecting
(13:32):
some of our core things, right?
Which is at the end of the day,it's quality content.
It's credible content.
It's making sure that we'reserving the audience well and
serving our clients well.
Within that, I actually thinksome folks think that.
AI is just another one of thesethings.
Many people think that AI isgoing to destroy everything.
And there's all the folks inbetween.
The way that we're approachingit at Studio and Industry Dive
(13:53):
is to really actually test it.
Test and then implement when wefeel like there, there's a real
advantage to bringing AI intoone of our capabilities.
Uh, whether that's for theaudience or whether that's for.
Markers as well right now, whatwe have tested are things like
in the content space, it wouldbe things like AI for
copywriting, right?
AI for original contentcreation, AI for short form
(14:15):
copy, uh, longer form content,AI for content atomization.
Uh, and I actually think that,uh, today the power of AI might
not necessarily be in the, howdo you develop content with AI
space it's in all the power ofmachine learning and AI to
actually.
Crunch numbers and come up withinsights and help you actually
operate the business or come upwith the right insights to fuel
(14:37):
the business, as opposed tosaying, AI can help us actually
create content or replace, uh,humans and creating content.
And one of the reasons I saythat is because when we look at
where AI is with technology, ourtesting has shown that it
actually works fairly well whenit comes to, I want to say, the
secondary needed tasks to.
(14:58):
Polish up content or to atomizecontent or to translate content,
but original research andexpertise, that's literally not
what AI does.
And so that part of actuallyhaving AI originate content is
not something that we're doingright now.
And it's just because thetechnology is not good enough.
So for us, it's actually thatthe methodology that we're using
(15:18):
is to make sure that we'reactually testing the different
aspects of AI that areavailable.
Running kind of experiments withit long before we actually take
that to market and put that infront of our customers or have
AI creating any of our content.
No, I agree 100%.
At this point, you can't reallyreplace the human judgment or
opinion or emotion and whetherit's.
(15:41):
Business media, unless you'rejust reporting news, that's part
of the content equation.
So on the audience side, are youable to use AI to predict
audience preferences or anengagement level with a piece of
content at this point?
So I would say that we've useddifferent flavors of AI machine
(16:03):
learning over the years to helpspecifically with aligning
audiences with their topicalpreferences.
That's where we use technology.
I would also say that if you askMegan McCoskey, who's my partner
and our head of product at thismoment in time, still no
substitute and our best tool foraudience engagement is.
Is having a deep knowledge oftarget audiences.
(16:24):
It is making sure that we'reproducing high quality
journalism and ultimately beingreally laser focused on the
topics and the types of contentthat really resonate.
So there's aspects of it andwe're going to keep looking at
it, but at the moment, I thinkthere's still.
Going to be for a while to comea big focus on kind of the, the
people and the expertise that wecan bring to the table.
(16:45):
Um, now, Sean said something theother day that I really
appreciate it, which is ifanyone is worrying about the
impact of the simple answer isthat we have to be better than a
better work than a, and I thinkthat that really resonates with
me.
Yes, I think you could add in,we have to be better than AI and
we have to leverage AI to ourbenefits.
(17:06):
There's a lot of opportunitythat I see out there and I think
being scared isn't really goingto get anyone where they need to
go.
The one thing I'm excited aboutaround AI from our experiments
is a little bit specific.
It's in this world of contentatomization of taking something
that.
An expert or a set of expertshas produced, for example, a big
research paper or a big whitepaper or a set of campaigns.
(17:29):
And then thinking about how wetake that originality, that's
housed in our humans, right?
And, uh, translated more quicklyto the right channels, uh, to
the right formats, to the rightways that we can communicate
that to the audience.
And that I think is somethingthat we are excited about at
StudioID and hopefully that'ssomething that can, you know,
(17:50):
Live up to what we're trying toachieve, which is create high
quality content as efficientlyas possible, right?
For example, this podcast,right?
We're done.
We'll have the recording.
We'll have the transcript.
So what AI could do is you couldupload the transcript and say
Take this transcript and for ouraudience, because you trained
(18:11):
the bot, what would be threegreat blogs to come out of it?
What would be the five socialmedia posts?
What part should be littlesnippets of video that would
resonate?
Is that what you mean byatomize?
Yes.
That's my new word.
And sometimes that's justtechnology, right?
But I do see that.
That's something we're trying toimplement more at Studio ID is
(18:31):
turning something that wouldhave taken two weeks into
something that would take twodays, but not getting in the way
of the originality of the workthat we need to create.
That leads me to anotherquestion, which is the ROI
equation, right?
You've got the part of theinvestment that customers are
making with you in creating thiscontent, the white papers, the
playbooks, research, et cetera.
(18:53):
That is one level.
Let's say they don't do anythingelse with you.
They just want you to create thecontent.
How do you assess the ROI forthe client?
And then as you move on, it getsclear as you start marketing it
in on the industry divechannels.
But if you could talk throughthat a little bit more, that
would be great.
Sure.
Yeah.
The ROI of, of marketing.
Yeah.
That's an offsite, Heather.
(19:13):
That's something, let me getinto it a little bit.
So the first thing I'll sayaround this is that marketing
ROI is.
Frankly, a hard to prove outfrom a causation standpoint in a
lot of ways.
Right.
And that's okay.
We have the advantage atindustry dive of having a highly
consultative sales team and ahighly consultative client
services team, right?
Including our studio ID contentstrategists, our enterprise
(19:36):
program managers.
And a lot of what they do istake, for example.
A lead report, right?
And how many leads did yougenerate from this campaign and
talk to the client and consultthe client about what that
actually means, right?
So for example, one of thethings we're constantly talking
to clients about is folks whocome to us and say, Hey, the
leads were good, but they're notconverting.
(19:57):
And so we can then dig into,okay, why, what are the other
activities that we're doingaround these leads?
Did you call these folks thenext day?
Because that's probably not theintended purpose for the
original campaign that we putout the door.
Have you tried this?
Would you like to work togetheron this?
So I think part of it is thespecific metrics that we're
trying to hit.
(20:18):
And then part of it is actually.
Helping the client make sense ofthat, right?
And helping the client take anext step in moving that farther
along.
As we get larger in ourcustomers set and more
partnership oriented or moreenterprise focused, one of the
things that we've done for along time is start our
partnerships, our annualpartnerships, talking about a
measurement framework.
(20:39):
Right, really talking about,okay, here's the journey that
your customers are going to takewith you.
Here's a journey you want themto take with you.
What are the key metrics that wewant to be looking at?
And that could be across contentengagement.
It can be across impressions,right?
But really tying that to what isthe goal of that?
So if one of the goals is builda brand, what are the proxy
metrics that can show us thatyou're building brand equity?
(21:01):
If one of the goals is.
Creating content engagement at,uh, multiple points in a year.
How do we actually look at that?
And what are the sources of datawe have to actually look at that
together?
Uh, and then finally, reallythinking about what does
conversion look like for you?
Oftentimes that is QLs or numberof leads created, but sometimes
it's beyond that.
Sometimes it's how much revenuehave you influenced, but once we
(21:23):
build that measurementframework, then we really
oriented all of our activities,uh, our reporting or
consultation boards.
Okay.
I think that we're not gettingthe MQLs that we need because we
need to do more up funnel,right?
Or have you thought about takingthis tactic or launching an
email newsletter to make surethat we're promoting engagement
and loyalty throughout youractivities with clients?
(21:46):
So the long and short of it isthat really establishing a
measurement framework issomething that can help anchor a
partnership.
And then when it comes time forrenewals and upsells, we have
something to look to as well.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Again, start the conversationearly and stay there.
I used to always get amazed.
We would get clients would say,yeah, we generated these leads.
They hit, they fit the ICP andthe buyer persona and all of the
(22:08):
things we want, but they're notconverting.
And then it's seven to 10 touchpoints.
At least that's what it used tobe in the old days.
Now they're saying it's likeanywhere from 18 to 20, but
before a buyer is going toengage with you.
So what other things do we dowhile they're lurking around and
doing research to make sureyou're front and center?
Okay.
In all those core places.
Absolutely.
The trend is clear, right?
(22:30):
Buyer committees have increasedthe amount of independent
research buyers are doing is aton more than even a few years
ago.
Folks don't necessarily want orneed to talk to a sales
representative as early in thecycle as they used to.
And now we have.
better ways to think about andknow when people are actually
evaluating a solution versus notin market as well.
(22:53):
And part of it is actually beingable to create those
relationships before they're inmarket so that you are top of
mind when they are in market fora solution.
One of the other things I'llpoint out here that, you know,
we talk a lot about here atStudio ID specifically is for a
lot of media companies, when wethink about content and content
ROI.
We, for example, with contentcreation, what we're doing is
(23:14):
helping advise a client ondeveloping a piece of content.
That's meant to live on ourmedia channels, right?
It's the channel that we putout.
And oftentimes we're not alwaysreally thinking about, okay,
somebody clicks on an ad and getan impression.
What's on the other side ofthat, right?
Cause that's going to reallyimpact the client's ROI as well.
(23:34):
And that's one of the things wedo a lot of, which is we're not
just looking at Measurement.
And we're not just creatingstrategies and content for our
paid media channels.
We're creating it for the clientfor the marketing organization.
And that could include for thewebsites that they want to
build, right?
It could be for their socialchannels.
(23:55):
It can be for their own emailnewsletters, right?
And at the end of the day,actually, the wealth of data and
first party data insights andexpertise we need about
audience.
That spans the entire kind ofmarketing stack and journey for
marketers.
It's not just in this corner ofwhat can we do for our channels.
And that's one of the reasonswhy we're able to think about
(24:18):
longer term partnerships aswell.
Because when we're creatingcontent, we're often thinking
about.
Okay, here's what lives on yourdot com and your blog, and
here's how it relates to thisadvertising campaign that we're
going to put on Retail Dad.
Right.
I just had an idea there.
So you literally could say, it'snot just this content, as you
said, but because you have somuch data about the audience,
(24:40):
You could go beyond justadvising about what's on the
other side on the website, butit's like, how does the
salesperson follow up with thattype of client?
What kinds of assets do you addto support what they engaged
with?
Even what is the sequence thatis put in place for that
customer journey?
You're really getting into truepipeline partnership there.
(25:00):
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
All right.
I'm going to move into somefuturistic questions.
My first one is how as abusiness, as industry dive,
looking at the future,especially in light of what's
happening with data, digital andAI and its growth strategy,
because it's not going to bebusiness as usual.
(25:21):
Yeah, absolutely.
I'll talk more specificallyabout how we're looking at it,
but I would also sayfoundationally, and this is what
I believe, right, is that theoutcomes are the same.
I, I don't actually think thatthe core of what we're trying to
achieve isn't necessarilydifferent.
I think we'll just have a lotmore.
As we always do to, to deal witha lot more tools at our
(25:44):
disposal, but when it comes tothe core of what we see as a
successful modern mediabusiness, it's really about
making sure that we're servingthe audience, the channels, the
tools, the ways we do it mightchange, but are we building a
valuable niche audiences and arewe delivering high quality
independent journalism to them?
(26:04):
Are we helping them in the waysthat we need to, and ultimately
for the Client side of thehouse.
It's really about making surethat we're building centric
content campaigns andpartnerships.
Now I will say morespecifically, Industry Dive, we,
for the last 12 years, I thinkin some ways we're well
positioned, right?
(26:25):
We've always been, and we'vealways talked about opt in
audiences and first party data,and I think that.
In light of what's happeningwith privacy, uh, and all of the
kind of data stuff that's goingon out there, that's something
that, uh, we hope will, uh, helpus, and it's something that we
want to continue to focus on,uh, and cultivate as well.
When it comes to content, right,and, and AI, it's, it's what we
(26:49):
talked about around making surethat it's a.
Tool in our toolkit that helpsus create better journalism and
engage audiences better and helpour clients be able to, to get
more ROI and the power of kindof the integration and the
platform.
And this is part of why we're soexcited to be a part of Informa.
So I think the path is really,uh, clear for us.
(27:09):
It's very similar to thestrategy we've had.
Now, how do we blow that out andhave some of these tailwinds and
new tools at our disposal?
That's the kind of stuff thatI'm pretty excited to figure out
in the future.
I'm going to turn it over to howyou and I are now working
together, and I'm really superexcited about this.
So, we have a product now forexecutives like yourself, who
(27:32):
are data driven, and in a Csuite role called Revenue Room
Connect, and you are one of ourfirst Executive Advisory Board
members.
I am so excited and very honoredto be a part of it.
And what excites you about theopportunity?
Why'd you pay attention to myemail?
Yeah, absolutely.
Um, outside of the fact that Ihave a lot of respect for you,
(27:55):
Heather, there's, I think the,the revenue centricity of it,
but actually bringing together alot of folks with different
backgrounds.
When you say revenue, right?
It's actually a lot of differentthings.
It's not just the commercialpeople thinking about the
finances and it's actually not.
In a separate world of theeditorial folks thinking about
audiences or the audiencedevelopment people.
(28:16):
One of the things I've alwaysbeen passionate about as someone
who likes to work across manydifferent swim lanes is the
intersection of all of thosethings in order to create a
sustainable and long lasting andprofitable business.
Sean often talks about howactually for a media company,
you need to look at.
Content strategy.
You need to look at audiencestrategy.
(28:36):
You need to think aboutmonetization strategy.
And actually it's a little bitof a trifecta and all of these
things actually impact ourability to be successful as a
company.
Now, revenue flows across thatstrategy.
And that's what I'm excitedabout is to really think about
the different.
Ways that other folks and peoplein the industry are actually
(28:57):
tackling the many things thatactually impact revenue.
And I also think that there's alittle bit of a rising tide
lifts off ships.
We're all in the same space thenwhen we have experts and folks
talking together and also reallytalking about not just the sunny
side of it, but some of thechallenges and fears that we
have.
I think it can be valuableacross a lot of businesses.
(29:17):
And certainly I'm excited tolearn a lot from others as well.
No, thank you.
I appreciate that.
And it really is the essence ofthis idea of the revenue room.
It isn't just sales.
It's not just customer success.
It's all together.
It's product.
It's audience.
It's anything that touches thecustomer has an impact on the
customer.
Revenue and I could even use theexample of if you're selling
(29:41):
advertising and sponsorship onone side and you're selling
subscriptions, that's allrevenue, like that all fits
together and they are symbioticin many different ways because
you could have just a verybaseline example is you could
have advertisers who aresubscribers or advertising
prospects.
They're engaged with your brandand they have spent some money.
So there is a predictor there ofsome kind of if that's a
(30:03):
prospect and we haven't closedthem.
But they're paying for asubscription to our content.
What are we doing to push themover to the other side to make
them an advertiser?
Right?
Connect the dots.
Lisa, thank you for inviting me.
I'm super excited to get thatkicked off.
Just some fun rapid firequestions I always like to do at
the end.
What's an unusual thing aboutyour career that most people
(30:25):
don't know?
I started my career as a financeand bankruptcy litigator.
I'm a career changer in a bigway.
And actually you mentioned atthe beginning, I was born in
China, grew up in California,growing up and going into
college, like one, I just didn'tknow anything about careers.
Didn't have the institutionalhistory to know how to approach
(30:46):
it.
So there was a little bit of,Oh, I don't know.
Sure.
Go into a, B or C.
The other part of it is that Ialways thought I would go into
politics and kind of be able toimpact public policy in some
way.
Now, like many folks, I, I cameout of the law school system
and, uh, started working at abig law firm in New York city.
And pretty soon I realized that,um, especially as a young
(31:08):
associate, a lot of what we doin the law is to protect people.
In my opinion, it felt likeprotecting the status quo.
And it turns out, uh, after Somediscovery and some, frankly,
just some hustling.
I really love business.
I love creativity.
I like working with a lot ofpeople to brainstorm and then
implement business ideas.
So I feel very lucky that I goton this path.
(31:32):
And oftentimes I advise youngfolks, if you're thinking about
making a big move, do it earlierrather than later, because then
you can probably wouldn't beable to make that same decision
today.
Two kids and then a few moreobligations than before.
I'll say that the industry isvery lucky to have you.
So I'm very glad you decided tojump the legal ship.
So what song do you love to singwhen you drive by yourself?
(31:54):
Gosh, I love these questions.
Nobody ever asked me thesequestions.
For a long time, I tried to bevery interesting and cool.
And it turns out, Heather, I'mjust not.
So my safe space is actually a90s R& B of the boys band.
So, uh, anything on theEvolution album, I am all in.
Alright, that's awesome.
(32:15):
And what book have you readrecently that really made a
mark?
I'll first say that I don't wantto represent that I read so much
for fun anymore.
I read a lot of children'sbooks, but I did recently read,
uh, Great book.
It's called, uh, BeautifulCountry and it's by a woman
named Tian Jilin Huang.
And it's a little bit of amemoir, a little bit of her
(32:37):
story and specifically her storyas it relates to being an
immigrant, uh, and how itimpacted her.
And her relationship with herfamily.
And I just thought it was sobeautifully written.
But as a Chinese Americanimmigrant, I am always pleased
and feel so closely connected toAsian American authors who are
(32:58):
actually helping us tell ourcollective stories more and more
in the public sphere.
No, I love that.
I'm actually going to get that.
Yeah, I, I love Asian Americanauthors too.
Listen, thank you.
This has been so enlighteningand inspiring and just chock
full of information for othermedia companies who are looking
to deploy a content studiostrategy.
(33:19):
And anything you'd like to closeout or add before we say
goodbye?
No, I'm so grateful for theopportunity to come on the
podcast and to chit chat withyou.
For anyone out there, one of thethings I really am is I'm really
nerdy about marketing.
And I love to talk shop.
I love to talk business.
So an invitation for anyone toreach out to me on LinkedIn if
(33:39):
you want to have a chat.
That's great.
All right, everyone.
Thanks so much, Jane.
And we will see you soon.
All right.
See you soon.
You can find us at h2klabs.
com.
Thank you.
Thank you for listening to TheRevenue Room, by H2K Labs.
Subscribe to our channel today.
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