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August 27, 2025 26 mins

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The unspoken truth about Army leadership firings lies in the coded language we often see in headlines. When senior officers are relieved for "loss of confidence" or "prohibited relationships," there's always a deeper story. This episode breaks down five recent high-profile cases where military careers came crashing down—from a four-star general to battalion commanders—all over inappropriate relationships.

We dive into the shocking case of Major General Michael Turley, demoted from two-star general all the way to lieutenant colonel, erasing decades of rank progression and drastically reducing his retirement pay. You'll hear about General Charles Hamilton, whose firing marked the first time in nearly 20 years that a four-star general was removed from command. The standards apply regardless of gender, as Colonel Megan Sullivan discovered when allegations of sexual misconduct against male subordinates ended her groundbreaking command position.

The military's professional boundaries exist for a reason, and these cases demonstrate that even consensual relationships can destroy careers when they create the appearance of favoritism or misuse of rank. The higher you climb in military leadership, the more devastating the fall when those boundaries are crossed. For junior soldiers watching these leaders face consequences, the message is clear: accountability applies at every level of the chain of command.

Whether you're currently serving or simply interested in military leadership culture, these stories provide a sobering reminder that integrity matters. When leaders fail to maintain professional relationships, they undermine the very foundation of military discipline. Share your thoughts—are these firings proof the Army holds leaders accountable, or does the system only react once situations become too problematic to ignore?

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Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
So let's talk about breaking down the terms that you
typically see, because a lot oftimes I see on the other apps
how they say well, when theytalk about these people, they
always say lack of confidence,but when they talk about these
people they actually tell whatit was that they did.
So let's clear up the armylanguage, these cases they

(00:21):
always mention, the three bigones, like I said, is prohibited
relationships, fraternizationand loss of confidence.
And here's what they reallymean, roger, sir, when a
four-star general, one of theArmy's most powerful officers,

(00:44):
gets fired for inappropriaterelations, it sends shockwaves
through the entire force.
But what's even more shockingis how often senior officers,
from colonels down to battalioncommanders, keep getting
relieved for the same thing.
It's either prohibitedrelationships, fraternization or

(01:11):
loss of confidence.
Today we're going to break downthe last five major cases and
what these verbiages actuallymean.
Welcome to the Roger SarnePodcast where we talk all things
Army and I'm your host, sarneCruz and in today's episode,
like I said, we're going to gointo senior army officers and
those have been fired forinappropriate relationships and

(01:34):
again we're going to talk aboutwhat those terms actually mean
when you see them in theheadlines inappropriate
relationships, fraternization,loss of confidence.
So, without further ado, let'sget started.
But I do want to say somethingbefore I start this off.
The reason why I am doing thisis not only to show light of

(01:55):
what's going on in the military,but it's to show that it
doesn't matter what your rank iswhen you do something that's
wrong.
Matter what your rank is, whenyou do something that's wrong,
you're going to be heldaccountable.
Now, the biggest deal is if youthink that four-star generals,
two-star generals, lieutenantcolonels can get held

(02:16):
accountable, what do you thinkis going to happen when you, as
a junior soldier, do somethingwrong?
You're going to be heldaccountable.
Okay, I always say this to mysoldiers.
The regulations will not alwaysapply.
Sometimes you see people withtheir hands in their pockets.
Sometimes you see people withheadgear inside.

(02:37):
Sometimes you see people theyjust say random, off-the-wall
stuff and you'd be like well,they let that slide.
How come they're not?
You know what I mean.
You see big back soldiers,whatever you want to call it.
When the regulations come intoeffect is when they're needed to
be applied.
When someone steps out of lineso egregiously that someone

(02:59):
reports it and now the hand isforced.
Okay, I always tell this to mysoldiers, all right.
So let's start off with thefirst one, and that is going to
be in August of 2025, which justhappened Utah National Guard
Adjutant General demoted andthis is Major General Michael

(03:20):
Turley, and he was the Adjutantgeneral of the Utah National
Guard.
He retired as a lieutenantcolonel, as an army inspector
general.
They proved, or they confirmed,inappropriate relations with a
subordinate.
Now think about that.
Decades of service, thatDecades of service.

(03:51):
But the army said his lastgrade in which he honorably
served was as an 05.
So that's an ultimate like acareer cliff.
I'm telling you like, thinkabout they.
They went back so far in hiscareer to see where it was that
they were having thisinappropriate relation and it
dated back to when he was alight colonel.
And that's two, three ranksbefore you got two-star general,

(04:15):
one-star general, and then youhave colonel and then you have
light colonel and that's wherethey went back and that's
ultimately going to affect hisretirement, because that's the
biggest pay, that's the biggestissue is the retirement.
But let's go into the screenshare and let's talk about it.
Let's go to the.
As I told you guys, I'm usingRiverside, so I got I can share

(04:39):
my screen, so let's go into thearticle which I found on task
and purposepose.
It says two star general bustdown to lieutenant colonel over
inappropriate relationships.
And it says right here, like,as I previously said, major
General Mike Turley will retireas a lieutenant colonel which,

(04:59):
according to the Armyspokesperson, was the last grade
in which he served honorably.
So let's go down right all theway down to this.
Right here is it says the samething that I just said.
But this is it right here.
So when officers are demoted itis customary that the defense

(05:21):
officials announce their rank.
Ranks have been lowered to thelast grade in which they
honorably serve satisfactorily.
An extreme example is formerArmy Major General John
Grazipoline, and he was busteddown to second lieutenant after
pleading guilty in a civiliancourt to SA of his own child.

(05:46):
Okay, so if you see and we godown a little bit further it
says their misconduct thentaints everything they did
afterwards.
Van Landingham, a law professorin Southwestern Law School in
Los Angeles Such demotions arerare but not unheard of she said

(06:07):
it allows for the Pentagon tosay hey, look, you don't deserve
to have this rank in perpetuityin retirement and you don't
deserve the pay.
Van Den Ham said it's a huge paycut for the rest of your life
and your pension because you didnot serve honorably, at least

(06:29):
in that, in that, in that greatand this was written August 14th
2025.
I'm telling you, this is a hugeshot that I'm talking about.
Could you imagine the money Iwant you guys to go on

(06:50):
retirement and look at how muchfurther down that individual um,
uh, major, um, I'm sorry,general Turley is, or Colonel
Turley is going to lose all themoney.
All right, so let's move intothe next one.
So this is General CharlesHamilton, and I read about this

(07:10):
and I think I spoke about this alittle bit last year.
He was a commander in thematerial command.
He was a four star general, oneof the army's highest
leaderships.
He was fired after the IG foundthat he had prohibited
relationship with one of hissubordinates and then he tried
to influence her commandselection process.

(07:33):
This was the first time, thefirst time in nearly 20 years,
that a four-star general hadbeen fired.
So if you thought that, likethe top brass were untouchable,
this right here is going toprove otherwise.
It proved otherwise.
So let's go into the screenshare and let's show you this

(07:57):
article.
And this was right here,general Hamilton.
This was by Army Times and thisis Army Secretary Fires
Four-Star General for CommandBoard Meddling.
And this shows, based on thefindings of the Department of

(08:18):
the Army's Inspector General'sinvestigation, the Secretary of
the Army has relieved GeneralCharles Hamilton of command.
And that's the armyspokesperson.
Cynthia O Smith wrote in astatement to the Army Times.
Cynthia O Smith, she'severywhere, shout out to you and
he says it was my honor toserve our nation and I've been

(08:40):
blessed beyond what I deserve tolead our troops for the past 43
years 43 years, could youimagine.
And that's what he toldMilitarycom.
While I wish I was able tocomplete my command, we all take
off the uniform.
We don't always control thetiming.

(09:02):
I look forward to continuing toserve our nation in new ways.
And yes, yes and no, I mean wedo kind of control.
We say, hey, I want to retire,20, 21, 22, 23.
When we don't control is whenwe are retired.
So he is kind of right.

(09:24):
But If you go further into the,into the article, he talks more
about how the, the promotion,like the reason why he wanted to
help his subordinate becausethey were both black and he
wanted to assist because he'sjust reaching down, you know,

(09:47):
helping out, kind of likenetworking.
I did a whole video about howyou need to network in the army
and this is what happened here.
Was the networking more becauseof the fact that he and the
colonel or the lieutenantcolonel had a relationship?
Probably more than likely.

(10:07):
But he also talks about howthere's a bias towards these
boards, because you have theBCAP, which is the Battalion
Commander Assessment Program,and that started in 2023.
And, yes, while he mentionedyes, while you take away the da
photo, you still have otherfactors, which is their previous

(10:31):
commands, their previouspositions and their previous
oers, in which they're not putin these important positions.
So therefore, theircompetitiveness is a lot lower.
So I think he was trying tofight more for his people and
ended up catching himself in acatch-22 because he knew the

(10:54):
people who were going to do theboards and he was like, hey, you
guys are going to be, one of mypeoples is on that board.
He should probably look at herand then he just kept going and
going and going.
So that's kind of like where hegot caught up.
Maybe if there wasn't arelationship extracurricular
relationship he would not.

(11:16):
It would not be as bad, becausewe've all said it, we've all
done it like, hey, you're goingto get Sergeant Cruz and
interview him and he's he, he,he's a good NCO and he's a good
dude.
That's putting in a good work.
But you know, yeah.
So the third one, it took placein January 2024.

(11:38):
It took place in January 2024.
Battalion commander thisbattalion commander was accused
of sexual misconduct, and thisis Colonel Megan Sullivan.
She was the leading, she, yeah,she was the leader in an SBAP
engineer battalion back in JBLMand she was relieved after

(12:01):
allegations of harassment.
And so, sa pretty much I'm malesubordinates, I can't really
say because we're on YouTube soand then she was also accused of
unwinding, touching, kissingand groping Like she Wild,
kissing and groping like shewild.
So she made history as one ofthe first women in that role, as

(12:25):
a, as that, uh, um, battalioncommander, and because of this
misconduct she erased everything.
It's kind of like, um, who wasit that won the heisman?
And then they took it from them.
Was it Reggie Bush?
I don't know, help me out, Putit down in the comments, but

(12:46):
it's kind of like that, right,you win something and because
you did something wrong, it allgot washed off.
So the point of this one isbecause the point of this story
that I bring to light is becausethe Army standard applies to
you regardless of the gender andregardless of what unit you're

(13:06):
in.
Right, so let's go ahead andlet's, let's, let's go into the
story and see what we're talkingabout here.
Boom Army Times Female Armycolonel fired over SA and SH
allegations.
And that's her right there.
According to timescom, she wasrelieved on her command to the

(13:35):
5th Security Forces AssistantBrigade Engineer Battalion last
fall, and this was written inJanuary 2024.
So this happened in 2023.
And she was relieved by MajorGeneral Don Hill and then,
according to the statements ofthe SFAC, sullivan was fired at

(13:55):
the time, cited due to lack ofconfidence in her ability to
command, and we'll talk aboutwhat that means.
There was a source, and withknowledge to the investigation,
alleged that Sullivan hadforcibly kissed one male
subordinate and groped anotherone below the belt line without
their consent.

(14:15):
She's also alleged to have SH'danother male soldier.
So one key statistic that theytalk about here is the
overwhelming majority of victimof SA in the military are
females women According to anApril 2023 Pentagon report on

(14:40):
the subject.
Men, however, comprised 20% ofvictims reported, only 1% of the
service members who weresubjects of SA investigations
were in the ranks of 04 and 010,according to the report.
Then it goes on to talk abouthow another colonel had got

(15:03):
fired there because he was outof control.
So again it goes to show thatit doesn't matter male, female,
you cross the line, they'regoing to hold you accountable,
all right.
So we're going to go into thenext one, and this happened of
June of 2024.
And this was a West Pointcolonel who got arraigned, and

(15:25):
this is Colonel William Wright.
He was accused of havinginappropriate, of making
inappropriate sexual remarks,and then he was drinking alcohol
with cadets and he had wrongfulcontact.

(15:46):
So for the Army's premiertraining institution, which is
yet fired, this case inparticular shows how even the
appearance of indecentrelationships with cadets can

(16:07):
destroy credibility.
Let's go into the article.
Why don't we?
Here we go.
Here we go.
Armytimescom.
West Point Colonel Arraignedfor Alleged Misconduct with

(16:28):
Tennis Team.
Here we go.
Colonel William Wright, an Armyofficer who has served as a
director of the school'sGeospatial Information Science
Program.
School's geospatial informationscience program has nine
allegations of inappropriatesexual remarks, providing and
drinking alcohol with cadets,wrongfully contacting a cadet on

(16:49):
the women's tennis team andendeavoring to influence
testimonies of court documentsshared with militarycom shows.
So he did all his stuff andthen he tried.
He tried to kind of like getsomeone, one of the witnesses,
to say, nah, nah, this ain't it.
So I'm going to go a little bitfurther.
So in January, wright allegedly,on one or more occasion, made

(17:13):
inappropriate sexual remarks inthe presence of three unnamed
cadets, and that's what thecharge sheet says.
And this is why I tell you guys, if you hear a joke, that's out
of control, if you don't wantto report it, it's your duty.
But if you don't want to reportit, it's your duty.
But if you don't want to reportit, no one can force you.
But do not add to it.
Never add to it.
So back in June 2023, he alsoallegedly violated the

(17:38):
regulation while in Hawaii byproviding alcohol to and
consuming it with, an unnamedcadet, according to the charge
sheet again.
So he allegedly did so again.
So he did it not once, buttwice that they can confirm.
A few days later in Alaska,over there in Pecan, they

(17:59):
walling out, apparently, thoughthe available documents did not
specify whether it was the samecadet.
Available documents did notspecify whether it was the same
cadet and now it talks about howhe goes.
He allegedly contacted a cadetin the Women's Army tennis team
in January after he wasinstructed not to the court
documents notes outlining thathe has also accused of

(18:22):
soliciting a cadet to wrongfullyinterfere with adverse
administrative proceedings byinstructing her to kill this and
chat with a redacted individual.
So, yeah, it's a rough one.
It's a rough one and this iswhat I tell you.
I tell you guys, stay away fromjunior soldiers, stay away from

(18:46):
junior NCOs, stay away fromofficers.
What's the point?
Man Like, ok, you guys go outand you guys drink together.
Now what Like other than youtrying to be their freaking
friend, which you shouldn't?
Other than you trying topotentially smash or something
like that.
Like have sexual intercoursewith them?
Like what you shouldn't?

(19:06):
All you're doing is puttingyour whole career even if you're
in the army for two years, it'sstill two years of your time
that you are just throwing away.
It just blows my mind.
Stay away from it.
Case number five this happenedin February of 2024.
And this is the RangerBattalion Commander.

(19:27):
He was suspended over datingapps.
I ain't gonna lie to you.
I stay on these dating apps.
So I don't know why he's Idon't know the issue, but hey,
let's read was the commander ofthe 5th Ranger Training
Battalion.
He was suspended afterinvestigators flagged his dating

(19:49):
profile and possiblefraternization.
His defense Everything wasconsensual.
But here is the kicker In theArmy, even consensual
relationships can end yourcareer if they create the
appearance of favoritism, ifthey create the appearance of

(20:13):
misuse of rank or underminediscipline.
Let's go into it.
I'm going to tell you guysright now, if there was no
fraternization, I'm not againstthis you can have a freaking
dating profile all you want to.
It's your personal life.
You know what I'm saying.
So here it goes MilitarycomArmy suspends Ranger Training

(20:35):
Battalion commander as itinvestigates the use of online
dating apps.
And this one doesn't have toomuch meat to the bone because
they still at that time hadn'tproven anything.
This is written February of2024.
And this, just the mostimportant part right here that I
can talk about, is what hislawyer says.

(20:56):
It says the investigation in noway is accusing Lieutenant
Colonel Shulman of SH or anysimilar related allegations,
said Robert Capovilla with theCapovilla Williams law firm.
They told Militarycom.
Rather, it appears the Army isattacking a single heterosexual
man and his desire to have adating profile and to have a

(21:19):
consensual dating relationshipwith other adults.
And then here it goes on totalk about where he commands,
where the three phases of rangerbattalion or ranger school, and
then where he serves.
So this just tells me that atthat time there hadn't been
anything going on and theyhadn't proven anything, so they

(21:41):
just went with that.
So let's talk about breakingdown the terms that you
typically see, because a lot oftimes I see on the other apps
how they say well, when theytalk about these people, they
always say lack of confidence,but when they talk about these
people they actually tell whatit was that they did.
So let's clear up the armylanguage, these cases they

(22:04):
always mentioned, the three bigones, like I said, is prohibited
relationships, fraternizationand loss of confidence, and
here's what they really mean.
So prohibited relations,defined under AR 600-20, which
is the army command policy, itis any relationship between
soldiers of different ranks thatcompromises the chain of

(22:29):
command.
Then number two is causesactual or perceived partiality
of favoritism.
The third one is involves orappears to involve improper use
of rank or position.
And the last one I would say isit undermines discipline,

(22:51):
authority and or morale.
Let's talk about fraternization.
Fraternization is kind of likethe big one that everyone always
talks about, so let's break itdown.
Fraternization is specifically,it's a prohibited relationships
, let's just say that way.
So traditionally it means likeimproper relationships between

(23:14):
officers and enlisted, but itapplies to like across all the
ranks.
Like, if officers and officers,a colonel can't date a
lieutenant, a sergeant major orsergeant first class't date a
lieutenant, a sergeant major ora sergeant first class cannot
date a private, okay.
So the key is the misuse ofrank and position.

(23:35):
So even though, like, if twopeople are consenting adults, if
one has authority, it's a aproblem.
I don't care what you say, it'sa damn problem.
The next one is loss ofconfidence, and this one, right
here, is the catch-all right.
This, this one, isn't actuallya crime per se, it's a

(23:57):
commander's judgment call.
So let's say uh, if a seniorleader believes an officer is no
longer, they, they're no, nolonger have the ability to lead
effectively due to poor judgment, let's say misconduct or what
they say loss of trust, they canbe immediately relieved.

(24:17):
And this is why you will oftensee that when the army says
relieved due to lack ofconfidence in the ability to
command, it's a catch-all phrase, but in cases like this, it's
tied directly to relationshipsthat undermine authority, right?
So let's talk about the bottomline.

(24:40):
The higher you go, the harderyou fall.
The higher you go, the harderyou fall.
From light colonels to four-stargenerals, no rank protects you
from the consequences ofprohibited relationships, and
that's what most soldiers don'trealize is you don't need to
break the law to end your career.

(25:00):
The appearance of inappropriaterelationships alone is enough.
So these cases show that thearmy is enforcing standards at
every single level.
Even if you're like a leader,you can't no, not even if you're

(25:23):
not a leader.
If you're a leader, you cannotafford to blur the lines of the
boundaries of what you'resupporting.
I'm telling you it's not worthit.
I would say you need to know thereporting process and what red

(25:46):
flags to watch for, like you,because at the end of the day or
I don't like saying at the endof the day, because when the sun
goes down leaders set the tone.
That's what we do, and when wefail, the whole formation is
going to pay for it.
That's that.
It's a fact.

(26:06):
So I want to know what you guysthink.
Are these firings proof thatthe army is holding leaders
accountable, or do you thinkthat the system only reacts once
they go to, once they're toofar gone?
So do me a favor drop yourthoughts in the comments.
Don't forget to like, subscribeand share, and remember you

(26:30):
don't have to embrace the sub ifyou got the right tools in your
ruck.
I'm Sarn Cruz and I'll see youin the next one.
Peace, roger Sarn.
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