December 11, 2020 • 49 mins
On this Feature Friday episode of the ROI Online Podcast, Steve talks with Loomly CEO, Thibaud Clement, about using social media to boost your brand and why consistency beats creativity every time.
Thibaud has an advertising background. Having worked for L’Oreal managing 5 brands for them, he learned how to manage social media preparation, production, and posting mostly using spreadsheets. To make that job easier, he created and started a business that helps himself and other brands manage that process from start to finish. Loomly not only helps develop post ideas, but it manages everything in an approval workflow, helps you create and manage ads, and so much more.
Social media has the power to help build your brand, but only if you’re posting consistently over time and using it to build your story. A one-time post, even if it goes viral, can’t compete against persistent posts over time. Even if you don’t use Loomly, Thibaud has advice for creating a posting calendar and workflow to do this for yourself.
Thibaud and Steve discuss:
- The features and benefits of Loomly and how it helps you manage clients and post consistently. It has the ability to pinpoint exactly when an error was made to prevent them in the future, to suggest post ideas, and to tailor each post according to best practices of each social platform
- How to create a social media calendar, so that you can tell a compelling story and build your brand in a way that attracts your customers
- Why telling a story with your posts matters and how to improve the quality of your posts—without wasting time
- How to collaborate and maximize efficiency within your team so your posts are more effective
- Why organizing your assets and creating a workflow is so important to your business, including creating a tracking safety net and liability management system—and how Loomly supports you in that process
- Social media best practices and why it’s important to consider other tools like YouTube where you can show up in those searches and grow your own audience
- Tracking how well your posts do so that you can either repeat the success or learn from the failure and post more effectively in the future
- Why you can’t expect to open an account and become a success overnight, how to manage your expectations, and why consistency matters more anyway
You can learn more about Thibaud here:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/thibaudclement/
https://www.loomly.com
Read the books mentioned in this podcast:
The Golden Toilet by Steve Brown
Enroll in the QuickStart Academy today to learn how to develop and implement a proven growth strategy that grows your ROI, your business, and your confidence. Learn more HERE.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Thibaud Clement (00:03):
Because you know, you are probably going to
pose the same thing on onFacebook and Twitter and
LinkedIn, but maybe on Facebook,it's going to be a bit longer on
Twitter is going to be shortermaybe with hashtags, and on
LinkedIn is it will have tomaybe have a more formal tone.
But the underlying idea that youare sharing is roughly the same.
Otherwise, it's just a differentpose. And so the way we have
(00:25):
built Lumi, is you have to stepone ID and date. Step two, is
selecting the channel. Stepthree is defining what we call
generate content, which iscontent that is going to be
common to all channels that youhave selected. And you know,
it's in terms of copy andassets. But then step four is
where it gets really interestingis what we call the fine tuning
(00:47):
step. And so you are going toget like, you know, a mock up
for Facebook, a mock up forTwitter, a mock up for LinkedIn,
that is generated automaticallybased on the Generate campaign.
And then from there, you cantweak it. Hi, everybody.
Steve Brown (01:01):
Welcome to the ROI online podcast where we believe
you, the courageousentrepreneurs of our day, are
the invisible heroes of oureconomy. You not only improve
our world with your ideas, yourgrit and your passion, but you
make our world better. I'm SteveBrown. And this is a place where
we have great conversations withwinners just like you while we
(01:25):
laugh and learn together.
Welcome to the ROI onlinepodcast Thibaud Clement.
Thibaud Clement (01:36):
I Steve, thanks for having me.
Steve Brown (01:38):
So, you know, people that listen to this
podcast, they're wondering whythey should listen to this
particular episode. And sohere's the thing is that
YouTube's really confusing issomething that we all know that
we need to take advantage of it.
LinkedIn is confusing, and weknow that we should take
advantage of it. And then wehear about these other platforms
(01:59):
like Tick tock, etc. And yet,there is not clear and yet you
have a company loomly.com. Andyou come from this space. So
tell us a little bit about whyyou're an excellent person to
listen to and get clarity onthis.
Thibaud Clement (02:20):
Okay, I'll try.
I'll try. Yeah, well, you know,so I do come from an advertising
background. And I've basicallybeen working in digital
marketing for about 10 years,all the time, I've been working
with my schools, No, me, youknow, it's actually Lumi is the
fourth company that we arebuilding together. And, you
know, before lumely, we had anadvertising agency, we were
(02:43):
operating both in France, whereour largest and most famous
client was L'Oreal, and we weremanaging five brands for them,
luxury product division, andhere in the US, where we were
helping, you know, fast growingstartups, trying to, you know,
get more traction and moregrowth. And, and so that was one
process, you know, that was Comeon, like to all those clients
(03:04):
began small, French andAmerican, no matter the vertical
is that we had to prepare,produce, and submit to them some
content to publish on theirsocial media accounts. In all of
that, believe it or not, washappening through spreadsheets,
you know, in muscle time inExcel. And if you actually
(03:24):
speak, you know, is anyone whois actually doing or preparing
like an editorial plan or anentire calendar, they will tell
you most probably, that they usesome kind of spreadsheet, maybe
Excel, maybe Google Sheets, orsome kind of evolved version.
But the truth is, spreadsheetswere not meant for that they are
rific for numbers, when you wantto do like a profit and loss
(03:48):
statement or businessman, butthey are not great for media and
text later on collaboration. Andso that was a very repetative
process time consuming. And and,and, you know, error prone. And
so at some point, you know,know, me and I, we started like,
looking for alternatives andways to improve that process.
And and we could only findonline like to, you know,
(04:11):
specific sets of tools. Thefirst company of tools was
basically what we could call ageneric project management
software, which is great toorganize collaboration within a
team, but doesn't really coverthe publishing workflow that
marketing teams need, becauseonce you have your content, you
want to, you know, spread itonline for everyone to see. And
(04:31):
then there was another family ofproducts, which was, you know,
what we could call the socialmedia schedulers. And those were
terrific at actually spreadingthe content, but they were not
helping you produce it. And so,that's, you know, where we kind
of identify like, you know, somekind of gap and because we
couldn't find a real solutionthat we wanted, we just started
(04:52):
building it. I'm not anengineer. I you know, graduated
from two business schools butThey are interesting on my own.
And by the end of 2015, they hada prototype up and running,
which we started using with ourclients. And we did not tell
them, it was our own product,because we wanted some, you
know, honest feedback andnudges, like, yeah, good job
(05:13):
guys gone. And they liked it.
And so from there, we open it upin public beta, and in the
scene, a tiny little productthat they had just built it not
in my garage, it's not SiliconValley, but but you know, in my
living room, you know, kind of,you know, was getting some
traction. And if we flashforward to today, we are now
(05:35):
extremely lucky to serve over7000 marketing teams, across the
globe. In we're growing about100% a year. So it's pretty,
pretty exciting in, we now haveall those marketing teams, you
know, manage their assets, forsocial media, in a library, we
help them we give them someideas about you know what to
(05:57):
post in, we help them createthose posts, build the visuals,
create the like some kind ofmock up so that you can preview
what the post is going to looklike before you actually publish
it. And then we have an entire,like, teamwork flow, where you
can actually, you know,collaborate and say, Hey, I love
this pose. No, there was a typoin this one, please change the
image in that one. So that, youknow, anything that goes out
(06:21):
that goes live is actually onbrand, and you know, kind of
telling the right story for yourbrand. And then you know, of
course you publish it, and thenyou measure your success is
analytics, and you can respondto any comments you get. My
point is to kind of get to yourinitial question is, we are now
integrated with Facebook,Instagram, Twitter, Pinterest,
(06:43):
LinkedIn, Google My Business,YouTube, tik tok Snapchat. So
and because, you know, we havethese kind of bird's eye view of
like, you know, everythingthat's happening on all those
platforms, with so many poststhat goes through our platform.
Every month, we kind of have,you know, some some insights
into kind of what's working,what's not. And we're seeing
(07:04):
that going in the future. Thatmakes sense. Yeah, totally.
Steve Brown (07:07):
So in my book, I talk about, you know, everybody,
everybody's convinced they needto be posting on social media,
but they don't know what to do.
It, especially the clients thatwe work with, they're, they're
trying to run a business, theyhave 20 or less employees. And
they have to figure out thisconfusing thing on social media,
but they know there's someexpectation that it can help
(07:28):
them grow their business. And sothey start throwing things
against the wall, hey, it's,it's Veterans Day, let's post a
picture on Veterans Day. Andthen it's Dog Day, grab, grab a
little, little sissy, and let'sget a picture of her and get it
posted. But there's not a realstrategy behind it. And then
there's this communicationbreakdown between the social
(07:52):
media people that you're tryingto get to help you and how to do
it correctly? How does lumelyreally start to address the
strategy? And where you wantthese people to go? If they do
click on a post? How do we knowwhere to put them so that we can
get a better value of thisinvestment of energy?
Thibaud Clement (08:15):
Yeah, um, you know, this is, this is very
interesting, because the firstkind of question that you kind
of raise is like, you know, youwant to post you need to post
you don't really know what yousay, and then you kind of like,
take things kind of piecemeal,and you're like, oh, two days,
Veterans Day, and each postabout that. And then you kind of
(08:35):
like, the kind of prime is whenyou do it like this meal. And
and you don't have this kind ofstrategic view of what you're
trying to say, it is correct,that you may end up with kind
of, you know, like series ofposts that you know, are back to
back and don't really meananything, don't retell a story.
So the most important thing is,it's actually probably the most
(09:02):
underrated trick, but it's, it'swhat we used to do as an agency
is that you don't want to bethinking at 9am about what you
are going to be posting at 10am.
That's, that's, that's a recipefor disaster. What you want to
be doing instead, is you want tosit down, you want to look at,
you know, the upcoming month. Solet's say, you know, we sit down
today and we look at, you know,what December is going to look
(09:24):
like, and we're like, okay, as abrand. What do I want to tell as
a story in December, you know,how am I going to talk about the
holidays in the current context?
You know, are there any specificmilestones that I want to share?
Are there any specific companyrelated events that they want to
(09:45):
share? And are there some ofthose, you know, date related
holidays that are mentioningVeterans Day or international
Dog Day? One marriage is it'snot you know, that you should
not be talking about those. It'sthat you should use those and
leverage those to end Korea.
Communication onto those and andexplain how you're relevant as a
brand in this context. And so tokind of be like in a very
(10:07):
practical, again, if you sitdown, you look at the upcoming
months, and you say, Okay, whatyou know, am I going to tell as
a story over 10 or 20 posts,then you know, it's much easier
one to go from, you know, ablank page to an actual series
of 20 posts, that makes senseto, it's much easier to actually
(10:27):
tell a compelling story, becauseyou can see how you know, one
post is going to build onto theothers and kind of respond to
the others. And three, when youdo it like that, not only is
kind of, you know, the qualitygoing to be better, but your
efficiency is going to bebetter, because it's much easier
to look at your kind of, youknow, your calendar and say, I'm
(10:49):
going to post, publish those 20posts, and you start by finding
the ideas, and then you find itfor all 20 posts, then you go
into the next stage, which isI'm going to actually crap the
copy and find the visuals. Andthen you know, you go on to the
next step, which is okay, I'mgoing to preview all those in
sequence and see, you know, whatthe story they're telling and
(11:10):
submit them to my team to see,you know, what they think about
it. And I believe that, youknow, this is kind of leading me
to the second part of yourquestion, which is basically,
how do you collaborate? How doyou maximize efficiency? And how
do you kind of implement bestpractices as a team? Yeah.
So well, that's, that's thething, if you have, you know,
(11:31):
Daniel work, and you have, youknow, kind of created your
content ahead of time, and youhave those 20 posts for the
month of December, well, thenyou can, you know, invite your
team and say, Hey, what do youthink about this? And what do
you think about that, and whatwe tend to see from the top bear
for me brands, is that theyusually want to have one thing
(11:54):
in common is that it's actuallynot a one person job. It's like
a team working together, andmost of the time with people
that you may not expect to beinvolved in a marketing process.
For instance, you know, one ofour largest clients, that I
would rather not disclose theirname, because they are publicly
traded. But because they arepublicly traded, what they need
(12:18):
is to involve the CFO in theprocess, because anything that
goes out, you know, on socialmedia, can potentially affect
the stock price. So this isextremely important. And it's
not only for, you know, largecompanies that are publicly
traded, even if you are asmaller company, but maybe you
are in a regulated industry, oryou want to make sure that you
(12:40):
don't publish anything, youknow, that that could create a
liability for, you know, rent orjust because you want to be
accurate in everything you say,it's a best practice to work in
a cross functional collaborationfashion, where, you know, maybe
you mean that you invite theproduct people, because they
will be able to explain, youknow, a great feature that you
may have no sort of add as asocial media manager, you can,
(13:03):
you know, invite thesalespeople, because they may be
able to give you some insightsabout what people are saying on
the field or question that theyhave, and that you can answer in
your post, and so on and soforth. You know, you can also
invite the HR people, we aregoing to talk about LinkedIn.
So, you know, employer brandingis really important. So, yes,
you need to invite the HR peopleto collaborate on this process,
(13:24):
because they will tell you, yes,that makes sense in the context
of our employer brand, and soon, and so forth. So, all these
to say that, it's not a oneperson job, work, you know, kind
of ahead of time and in batch,involve as many different skills
as you can. And these four willmake the whole process more
(13:44):
efficient and more effective.
Steve Brown (13:46):
So in my book, I talk about how I'm actually this
is a legitimate business processthat we're talking about, okay?
It used to be in a union,imagine small companies with 20
or less employees, they'retrying to get something out
there because they see otherbrands doing it, and your
clients or your customers areexpecting you to do it. But it's
(14:08):
like, it's always just anotherthing, we're going to tick off a
task but but what I really wantthese heroes, these
entrepreneurs to know is thatthis is a legitimate business
process. Well, what that meansyou have to set up a strategy,
you have to have a process and asystem and a communication for
(14:30):
for you to take intoconsideration HR or the
marketing or the sales so thatthis actually moves the needle
for the business some way is thetool that you're lumely that you
you've invented, is that is thata process based tool that helps
you shortcut all these thingsthat usually would have to put
(14:51):
together in some Frankensteinsystem?
Thibaud Clement (14:55):
Absolutely.
Exactly. You know, as I wasexplaining, you know, we want to
cover the cost But we want tocover the publishing part, when
you use rumely. First, forinstance, if we kind of go
through the process, you know,what you start with this, you
have a library where you canmanage all your assets. So
first, you don't have like, youdon't need to have like Dropbox
(15:15):
or anything where you have toshare your files, know
everything in one central place,you have your photos, your
videos, your links, your notes,whatever you want, you know, all
these kind of intelligence andbrand assets that you may have,
you can have them here at theready, that's number one. And on
top of that, and that's going tobe a pretty neat feature is, if
you don't have any of thoseassets, we are actually
(15:35):
integrated with some platforms,like unsplash, and GCP. And you
can actually pull down importantsome assets from those platforms
for free. So even if you don'thave like a beautiful
photograph, or like, I don'tknow, the sunrise or sunset for
your inspirational quote, well,you can just put it down in like
one second two clicks, and it'sfree. So that's one thing we
help you, you know, organize theassets, to, we provide you with
(15:59):
some ideas about what to postand that's, you know, kind of
the next step into into theprocess. So, we tell you about
those, those funny days, it'sfunny, social media holidays
you're mentioning, but we also,you know, piggyback on to the
trends to tell you what istrending. And we also kind of,
you know, lets you connect someRSS feeds into your calendar. So
(16:20):
that, you know, if you have ablog, for instance, then any
kind of new blog posts that youpublish will be kind of fed into
your calendar to be transformedinto into a post. And you can
also add your very own custompost ideas, like I don't know,
if it's the 20th anniversary ofyour company, or if you just you
know, pass like a revenuemilestone or anything that you
want to share and celebrate, youcan actually input it into
(16:42):
there. And then from there, youknow, so you have assets, you
have ideas, you craft your post,and that's where I kind of, you
know, only really helps youbecause the way we you create a
post in lumely, is you actuallyhave what we call pose builder,
which is a step by step wizard,that take you back at hand and
tells you here's what you needto do here. And here's what you
(17:03):
need to do there to go from thatidea to accompany posts. And
finally, to kind of go about getdown to really your question, we
have what we call post viewwhere you can preview the post,
and you can from post view, youcan assign a post to your
collaborators to say, Hey, canyou look into that, please, you
have a state. So the post can bein draft, in pending approval
(17:25):
approved or scheduled if it hasbeen scheduled? And you can
leave comments, you can say,Hey, can we change the so that,
can we I don't like that post,can we actually cancel it to
even have it canceled state. Andso you have a history of all of
that history of audio changes,so that the workflow is actually
you know, kind of track. Andthen from there you publish it,
(17:47):
you receive an invitation for,you know, when you get like,
kind of, you know, like acomment mentioned or message in
all those you can also assign toyour collaborators. So that, you
know, you can say, Oh, this is aquestion I don't know how to
answer. I'm going to assign, youknow, john, who is in sales. So
this is also kind of theconversion but and then you have
(18:09):
the final part, which is theanalytics, because as you
mentioned, it's a process, wewant to move the needle. So you
have an entire analyticsdashboard that helps you report
on your progress, your growth,and see what is working what is
not. On top of that, we areactually in the process of
releasing a pretty cool newfeature that is called custom
workflow. And it's actuallytaking everything I just
(18:32):
explained to a whole new level,because it allows you to
download some rules. So forinstance, you can determine some
rules where you say, as soon asI create a post, and it's
becoming pending approval, Iwant it to be assigned to john,
and, and, you know, they anautomatically so they don't even
(18:53):
have to click the button so thatanytime you create a post and
you need it to be approved, thenjohn and Diana will receive a
notification telling them thatthey need to come in see it and
approve it. So that's a prettycool new feature. And another
thing that you can do is you canalso say, you know, I want to be
I want to enforce some kind oflimits on, you know, who needs
(19:16):
to actually approve a postbefore it can go live. We call
those walls. And the idea isthat, you know, we can say,
Okay, this has been approved byTiVo, but it cannot actually be
scheduled until john and Dianehave approved it. So that you
know, you also have some kind ofsecurity and safety net. So yes,
(19:37):
I I'm tempted to say that itdoes address these workflow and
in process approach that youwere referring to, sort of the
traps of social media to me ourfirst time wasting if you're not
doing it right,
Steve Brown (19:56):
then then, you know, we've done we've managed
Social media for clients. But ifyou misspell a word, like you or
your, and you put the wrongversion of that the client can
be, it can really be Pennell, itcan penalize you, just because
of a small little mistake forwhatever reason, they put so
(20:18):
much weight on what you do onsocial media, which conveys
there's this big expectation ofit. But then let's say you get a
post in really perfect and it'sout there, then there's the
whole interactive side thatusually lost or not taken
advantage of. And so there's alot of ways to waste a lot of
(20:39):
money, not to it right, not takeadvantage of it. And you can't
afford to hire an army of peopleto do it. Right. That's really
frustrating for small brands.
Yeah.
Thibaud Clement (20:52):
I understand.
And that's why, you know, youwant to be as efficient as you
can. In C, you know, and likeyou you like you said, you want
to have a process and aworkflow, where you know, who is
involved? And who needs to dowhat and when? And, well, it
turns out that, you know, loomlykind of support you in that, but
even if you don't use loomly,that's what you should have, you
(21:13):
should have this process where,you know, who is supposed to
create the post? Who is supposedto approve them? We some kind of
tracking of who said yes, whenbecause, you know, like you say,
let's say there was a typo, butyou know, like, did the client
approve it or not, if the clientapproved it, there was a typo,
but didn't even catch it either.
(21:36):
So this way, you know, you havesome kind of tracking safety net
and liability management system,I would say. And this is very
important. And then for what youmentioned, like responding to
any engagement andcollaboration, sorry, engagement
and interaction that you thatyou receive from your content,
(21:57):
which is kind of the goal, theposting is not the goal,
building your brand isinteracting with your audience
is and and growing this kind ofyou know, trust and momentum
around your brand is so huge.
Also, it should be clearlydefined, who is supposed to do
that. And then again, you can doit organically, you can use a
tool that can automate it foryou and anyone who signs you
tasks that you need to perform.
(22:21):
But the truth is, what mattersis who is in charge of what in
when.
Steve Brown (22:25):
So it's like, here's the other thing, that's
really a gotcha, let's say youdo have a good social media
person, you do have a goodstrategy and a process and the
sign offs. One post has to beformatted in multiple platforms,
when you take their LinkedIn hasits idiosyncrasies, YouTube,
(22:46):
yeah, big time, we're gonna eventalk about Tick tock, you know,
and, and all these, how doeslumely help you handle all
these, these multiple formatsthat you need to really avoid a
bunch of gotchas, doing itwrong?
Thibaud Clement (23:04):
Yeah, that's, that's an excellent question.
And so, in lumely, you know, Iwas explaining earlier that we
have built this feature calledcalled post builder. And so it
takes you by the hand throughthe creation process, or the
production process of your post,step two, in the process. So
step one is basically you know,defining like finding the idea
and choosing the date. Step two,is selecting the channels,
(23:28):
you're going to publish yourpost on. And so, you know, you
may set like, like, you know,Facebook and Twitter and
LinkedIn, for instance. And likeyou say, those platforms have
different requirements, and andthe usage is different, and the
expectations of users aredifferent. So the way we have
built kind of the next steps ofpost builder is based on how we
(23:53):
use to handle that part of theprocess before in the famous or
infamous spreadsheets. The waywe used to do it is we would
have one central theme, youknow, one central idea for post
that would, you know, be kind ofreplicated for his channel and
slightly tweaked, we should sayfine tuned, because you know,
(24:14):
you are probably going to posethe same thing on on Facebook
and Twitter and LinkedIn, butmaybe on Facebook, it's going to
be a bit longer on Twitter isgoing to be shorter, maybe with
hashtags. And on LinkedIn, it'sit will have to maybe have a
more formal tone. But theunderlying idea that you are
sharing is roughly the same.
Otherwise, it's just a differentpost. And so we have built
lumieres you have so step one,ID and date. Step two is
(24:39):
selecting the channel. Stepthree is defining what we call
generic content, which iscontent that is going to be
common to all the channels thatyou have selected. And you know,
it's in terms of copy andassets. But then step four is
where it gets really interestingis what we call the fine tuning
step and so on. You are going toget like, you know, a mock up
(25:01):
for Facebook, a mock up forTwitter, a mock up for LinkedIn
that is generated automaticallybased on the generate content.
And then from there, you cantweak it for each one. So no
copy and paste, no need to kindof, you know, like upload
several times the same file.
Nope, you are here. And you cancheck everything for his
channel, we let you know if yourpost is too long on Twitter, we
(25:25):
let you know if your image istoo heavy on LinkedIn, and this
kind of thing. So that you know,when you are fine tuning each
post and you're ready to saveyour post, you are confident
that is going to get posted as acheat on each platform and
customize voice. But I
Steve Brown (25:43):
want to pause here just for a moment and talk to
you about a program that we havejust released called ROI
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(26:28):
you want to do, you want to getyour book in front of more
people, you want to make it easyfor them to find you learn how
they can schedule a time to talkwith you hire you for a
conference, or maybe sign up forthe services that your book
promotes. So what is theQuickstart Academy for authors?
Imagine working with a smallgroup of like minded authors,
and the experts from the ROIquickstart team, it's a great
(26:53):
way to get your messaging clearto be confident with the
technology in your marketingautomation, and how to run a
strategic campaign to get youmore of what you want from the
investment of your book. Tolearn more about the Quickstart
Academy for authors, you canvisit ROI online.com or click in
the link in the show notesbelow. And now back to this
(27:17):
episode. So that leads us to thenext gotcha is like they're
there. Each of these platformshave algorithms, and they change
every day. And so there'sthere's great recommendations on
when's the best time to post onthis platform like the worst
(27:38):
time to post on the other? Howdoes loomly? Or how does one
that has a small team becomeproficient at understanding that
and taking advantage of an everchanging? Yeah, yeah,
environment.
Thibaud Clement (27:55):
So there are two things that we do to help
you with that. The first thing,it's not that I've driven, in
the sense that it's not based onyour own account, but it's based
on studies and experiments andinformation that we have. And so
is what we call postoptimization tips. So we have
(28:17):
those, you know, General bestpractices that we know, you
probably have seen studiesonline, you know about like,
indeed, like, when is the besttime to post this day to post
the idea of copy links and thiskind of thing. And so what we do
is we have built those rulesinto our platform. And we have a
very simple, you know, greenorange in red system, where we
(28:40):
tell you for each attribute ofyour post, whether you know,
you're doing great for thosebest practices, or whether you
can improve, or whether werecommend that you should really
be doing something else. And sowe do it for the days, we do it
for the times, we do it for thecookie legs, we do it for the
engagement markers to include inyour your copy. So you know, for
(29:01):
instance, do you have like,hashtags and at mentions and,
and even like question marks orexclamation points, emojis,
these kind of things that, youknow, we know, tend to lift
engagement. And we also, youknow, look at kind of the format
of your posts like is the linkit's a simple copy post is like
an image video. What is it andso for each platform will tell
(29:24):
you, well, you can do it. Butbased on the best practices here
is you know, if you want tooptimize your post, here's what
you can try. That's kind of thefirst thing same for everyone,
not customized for each person.
It's just kind of you know,General best practices. And then
there is the other part which iscustomized and which is I in my
(29:45):
sense, probably the mostinteresting is that we have this
analytics dashboard, which youcan look into at any time. And
it will tell you you know, foreach post, like how many You
know, clicks and impressions andreach and in the engagement
you've got, and it will alsorank your post, like, you will
(30:09):
have a top three and a flatthree for for each month. And
so, these actually tells youwhat your particular audience is
more responsive to. So let youknow the next time. So you know
we are, we have prepared all 20posts for December, we have
published those, and we are nowat the end of December, we're
looking at, you know, January.
(30:31):
So what we do is, instead ofjust starting from scratch
again, we go to the analyticsdashboard, and we look at, you
know, the posts that work thebest, you know, in, you know,
where do we talk about, when didwe publish them? How long were
they were the images or like,videos or links, and then we try
to incorporate that kind offeedback into our next planning
(30:53):
session for the 20 posts thatwe're getting to publish in
January. So it's kind of youknow, an iterative process. And
that's how you actually bestlearn to kind of adapt to the
ongoing changes of thealgorithms because well, like
you said, the general time.
Steve Brown (31:08):
So to all this talk about video now, when I think
about the, probably theplatforms that most companies
are weak on or need to up theirgame, their platforms that
really reward video, that wouldbe LinkedIn, that would be
YouTube, that would be Tick Tockand I have to confess, I haven't
(31:29):
even been on tik tok. Okay,there's like, so many different
platforms, I don't know whichone. I do think YouTube. And
LinkedIn, at least for what wedo is like the best place to
focus, but then there'sInstagram, and there, there's
Facebook and talk to us abouthow to look at video and how to
(31:50):
take advantage of thisopportunity. And it's a big
competitive advantage if you getit right. Right.
Thibaud Clement (31:56):
Now, of course, it is. And, and, you know, for
sure, to us, like, you know, weare integrated with with YouTube
were into it, it was LinkedInand was most platforms out
there. To us, YouTube isprobably one of the most often
overlooked platform. Because,you know, creating videos is
(32:19):
frightening. So you know, thereis this kind of barrier to
entry, where you're like, maybeI don't have the budget to I
don't have the skills to createsome videos. But the thing is,
the rewards are undeliverablefor a couple of reasons. YouTube
is one of the most visitedwebsites on the planet after
Google. So that's just for one,the rich is almost unlimited,
(32:42):
it's it's probably, you know,half of the planet who is
actually logging into YouTube.
So it's just it's huge. That's,that's, that's one, two, YouTube
is actually very interesting inthe way it works, because it
does have some social features.
So the algorithms, and you cansubscribe to channel, and you
(33:03):
can build like an audience. Andyou can have likes and dislikes
and comments and things. That'strue. But it also works and
doubles as a search engine.
Because you have many peoplewho, you know, they are looking
on how to do something, and theywill either look it up directly
on Google. But then, you know,we know that YouTube residents
actually show up very well inGoogle, because well, YouTube
(33:26):
belongs to Google. Or to theywill actually go to YouTube, and
look straight up for a recipe,or a DIY tutorial, or how to do
some home improvement or, or,you know, even like in the b2b
sector, like how to do socialmedia marketing, or SEO, this
kind of thing. So YouTube hasthis search engine power, which
is tremendous, and which islike, you know, a huge advantage
(33:50):
over some other social networks,because you're probably not
going to go on other socialnetworks and look for something
like that, you're not going togo to Facebook and look for a
recipe or go to Twitter. Andthat's not how it works, but
YouTube does. So that's a hugeadvantage. And the last thing,
which is actually phenomenal tome, is that you have the ability
(34:10):
to build on YouTube, audiencesof amazing sizes, with huge
engagement. If you just likelook at some accounts that are
like exploding, what you willsee is that it took them some
time to go from, you know, zeroto maybe 1000 100,000 a million
(34:31):
subscribers. But then once theyare there, it just like their,
their growth is exponential. Andthat's, you know, really to the
the YouTube algorithm for sure,which tend to kind of, you know,
push a channel such you know,have been publishing steadily
and that, you know, aren't goingto be reliable. So that's where
it's interesting, because onYouTube, you can actually build
(34:55):
you know, defensiveness bybeing, you know, By showing up
and producing videos regularly.
So to me, it's an amazingadvantage to, like I said, have
this amazing rich, have thosesearch engine capabilities, and
having the similar teachabledefensiveness over time was in
(35:15):
that audience, which, you know,on other platforms, it's getting
more complicated.
Steve Brown (35:20):
So you're connected to all these platforms where you
can publish into them?
Obviously, you're probablyreceiving analytics and data and
insights from that. What is whatis your data revealing about
LinkedIn and the best way totake advantage of LinkedIn?
Thibaud Clement (35:37):
Yeah, so we have to be careful about you
know, because we, it's not like,we are going to be looking into
our users data or anything, oh,that is private. But on
LinkedIn, one thing that weconsistently see here is that
you have your company pages, andyou have your individual
profiles. Interestingly, youknow, those two work very well
(35:59):
hand in hand, where you know, onyour company page, you will
probably, you know, publish somevery corporate content, and then
on your individual pages, youcan actually share your, your
company page corporate content,but you can also, you know,
share things about your careerand your achievements and things
like that. And it's actually wehave a blog post on our blog,
(36:20):
but that where we actuallyexplained that using certain
leadership from one of yourexecutives, or founders, and
leveraging their individualprofile is a pretty good hack to
actually get even more exposurethan just simply publishing
through your, through your, yourcompany page. And that's, you
(36:41):
know, it makes sense. Because ifyou think about it, you you
always happy to hear, you know,directly from the founder of a
brand that you like, or thesoftware that you use, or an
agency that you want to workwith. And so that makes it just
more human. Yes, it'sprofessional. Yes, it's b2b. But
yes, it's also human. And thatis, I believe, also in the
(37:03):
current context more importantthan ever. Yeah. In human
Steve Brown (37:07):
psyche competitive advantage now just being?
Thibaud Clement (37:11):
Yeah. So.
Steve Brown (37:14):
So what's, what's one good question that people
don't ask you that, that youwished you could be answering on
this?
Thibaud Clement (37:24):
On? Like, on social media?
Steve Brown (37:27):
Yeah, well, and obviously, you design lumely to
help people excel in this area.
But there's usually like aquestion you wish people would
ask you, but they don't?
Thibaud Clement (37:38):
Yeah, well, the thing, you know, is, is, like,
everyone, you know, is seem tobe like trying to get there
fast. Like, they want to set upan account, I'm sure your
clients, they're like, likethat, maybe, you know, they
they're not showing the mostpatients and, you know, your
(37:58):
podcast is our I write our eyeon line. And so I write has to
be here. And now, the thing is,our eyes is, you know, is kind
of a reward in the long term forbuilding your brand. Meaning
that you know, it's not becauseyou're just going to open up a
Facebook page or Instagramaccount, that all of a sudden,
you're going to go viral. Andeven if you go viral, is going
(38:20):
to last for 24 hours, and thenyou're going to be forgotten,
because another person is goingto go viral. So the most
important thing is how do youbuild your brand? over time? How
do you stay relevant, and howyou actually build this
defensiveness that I wasmentioning, because going viral
is not defensiveness going viralis is being lucky. And what you
(38:43):
want is building thisdefensiveness meaning that, you
know, your audience is going tobe interested in what you say.
Because you take care of them,you publish great content that
they like, and you show up,you're not like, I publish,
like, two posts, like at thesame day, and I'm, and I'm not
here for a month, that's notwhat you want. What do you want
is, you know, regularityperiodicity, where you show up,
(39:07):
you tell your brand story thatresonates with your audience.
And, and, and, you know, youjust be you are here
consistently, and that's how youactually build an audience. And
that's how you're rewarded. Andso I think that, you know, the,
the most important questionhere, whether people want to ask
it to me or not, is, is like,how do you brand how to be? How
(39:28):
do you build your brand onsocial media? And and the answer
is you do it over time. That'sthe answer.
Does it make sense?
Steve Brown (39:37):
So there's no shortcut. That means like,
that's like,
Thibaud Clement (39:42):
I don't think there is. I don't think there
is.
Steve Brown (39:45):
Yeah, I think just like in any domain, consistent,
strategic, long, March, and mostpeople give up after a little
bit, and that's why it's acompetitive advantage. Do the
long game. Yeah.
Thibaud Clement (40:02):
Yeah, exactly.
You know, like we say often thatnothing beats perseverance.
That's true. And so that's,that's the first thing but but I
also think and that's, you know,again, that's, that's after 10
years in the field, I reallybelieve that consistency beats
creativity every time, everytime. Because you know, maybe
you are genius, one day, youput, you know, you put all your
(40:24):
energy into this nice design,then you don't have any more
stamina for the next one. Andso, again, it's not one, one
beautiful picture, or one niceas for me to post as an
interview brand, what is the wayto build your brand is the
emotion that you're going tocreate with your audience, and
the fact that they're going tobe happy to see a post from you.
And that even more importantly,they're going to expect to see a
(40:45):
post from you. And so that issomething that you achieve with
consistency, not like, you know,creative genius. So, you know,
it's just a sweat. That's whatyou should be putting into it.
Steve Brown (40:59):
So what's the platform that has, most people
are not taking advantage ofright now other than YouTube?
What's and what's the strategythat you should be applied to
that platform?
Thibaud Clement (41:13):
While you think we mentioned LinkedIn, and I
think that LinkedIn is extremelyinteresting, for it's
interesting for, of course, b2bmarketers, so if you do sell
products to the company, becausethey are there, you know, most
of them are there. LinkedIn isalready huge. And it keeps
growing. So I think it's afundamental platform. And so
(41:38):
it's also interesting for b2cbrands, because maybe they're
not going to sell their producton LinkedIn, because maybe it's
not the place to do it. But theycan still build their employer
branding. And employer brandingis actually extremely important.
And it's, of course, important,because you want to attract
(41:58):
talents. And then once you kindof hire those talents, you want
to retain them, meaning, youknow, they, you want them to be
proud to be part of your of yourteam. And actually, you know,
involving your employees intosharing content on LinkedIn is
actually one of the best growthhacks that you can think about.
But it's also important foractually for your customers,
(42:21):
because you know, when you knowthat such brand, is one of the
best companies to work for you,you know, it just contributes to
your perception of the brand.
And so maybe it's not going totrigger a sale right now. But
it's going to actually maybemake you you know, more
interested in whichever adthey're going to run next. And
maybe it will also make you lessprice sensitive to whatever
(42:42):
innovation they're going tolaunch. And so, because you will
be thinking about, you know,yes, people are happy to work
there, they are one of the bestplaces to work, so they must be
doing something, right. And thatin and of itself, it just
doesn't only build the employerbrand, it also builds just the
actual brand. Because you seevalue in what they do. And I
(43:03):
think this is, you know,extremely important in actually
for businesses
Steve Brown (43:08):
of all sizes. So where did your passion come for
this industry? Why, why? Whyconnecting all of these
disparate things together andsolving a problem that's never
ending, and always changing?
Thibaud Clement (43:26):
Well, that, you know, in itself is actually a
pretty good reason. But, but,you know, it's, uh, you know, I
like to joke about the fact thatLumia is basically your love
story. Like, like I said, I was,I've been working with mice
who's known me for nine years.
And so, you know, she was theone in charge of the
spreadsheets. So, you know, Iwanted to help her, I wanted to
(43:48):
make her day and her job easier.
So that's why I went into thecode and build it. So I would
say that's, you know, where mypassion come from. But But then,
you know, the real thing is,once you kind of scratch the
surface of such a big problem,and that is, like you just said,
Never ending, then and you know,you are able to communicate with
(44:11):
your clients and your customers,because we speak with over 200
customers every single day,through customer support, and
they all have my email address,they, you know, I receive tons
of emails every day, and I readthem all, like respond to them
or so we have this constantfeedback. And these, you know,
kind of shapes our vision, as wekeep growing about, you know,
(44:32):
where we need to take theproduct and the company, you
know, which features matterwhich bugs Do we need to fix?
How can we improve the UI, allof these things, and as you have
all those, you know, little datapoints every single day. It's
like an impressionist painting.
It kind of forms a very clearimage. Once you have this clear
image as an entrepreneur, it'sreally hard to forget about it
(44:53):
and only want to do is basicallygo and achieve that vision. So
that is a huge drive. For us,for me, but for me as well,
because now that we haveidentified this pain point, and
you know, we have a pretty goodidea of what people want, it
will be pretty frustrating to goall the way and actually deliver
it.
Steve Brown (45:13):
So what's the most surprising thing about social
media to you now that you didn'texpect eight years ago, six
years ago?
Thibaud Clement (45:24):
Probably to see my parents on it. But no, I
think what what is extremelyinteresting here is to see how
it kind of snowballed from, youknow, something that was kind
of, you know, niche practice,into something so mainstream,
and I think it's reallyinteresting. I know, there's a
(45:44):
lot of noise about, you know,how, like, the negatives of
social media, but but in a, youknow, you are probably aware of
all of them. But, you know, Ithink they also create great
scene, they enhance creativity,they unlock new opportunities,
and they connect people. And Ithink that this is pretty
amazing to me that, you know, welive in the US, we have family
(46:05):
in France, we can talk to them,like they're in the next room,
that's just so amazing. Like Isaid, we are we are a startup,
we have 7000 clients around theworld, that's pretty amazing to
me, the fact that you know, andthat's also part of social
media, the fact that, you know,we can be based in the US and
serve clients in Australia, andand in France, and in Canada, or
(46:26):
Mexico, and Ms. And it's prettyamazing to be so, you know,
social media is pretty inspiringin its in its market penetration
rate, I would say.
Steve Brown (46:37):
All right, so just a couple more questions. Which
country? I guess it's the US,but which country? Do you think?
Does social media the best?
Thibaud Clement (46:48):
Yeah, do us a pretty good, I mean, it and I
think, you know, it'sinteresting, because in France,
I remember that very, veryclearly. In France, in the early
days, there was kind of these, Iwould say, reluctance to be on
(47:09):
social media, because mostpeople, you know, in France are
a bit more private than they arehere. And so it was like, What
am I going to talk about? Idon't have anything to say, and,
and my life is private, whywould I post about, you know,
going to a restaurant and thefunny, usually, the funny
satirical joke was, Why shouldI? Why should I tweet every time
(47:30):
I pee? That was something likethat. And so I think, you know,
it's, it's interesting to seethat, you know, I've been living
in the US for six years now. Andit makes a lot of sense to me
that the social media came fromhere, because there is a
different culture of, you know,being outgoing and outspoken and
sharing what you do in a very,very organic way, which is a bit
(47:53):
again, like a friend of Europe.
So that's probably why I believeYes, in the US. There is, you
know, a lot to learn.
Steve Brown (48:01):
Thibaud, Clement, how can people connect with you?
The best way
Thibaud Clement (48:07):
up, you can find me on LinkedIn. If you can
spell my name. I know it's veryhard to spell. You can find me
on Twitter, at Thibaud Clement.
And, you know, you can, youknow, visit our website
loomly.com. And you can likeshoot me an email anytime it's
just Thibaud@loomly.com. So likeI said, I receive and open and
read and respond to every email.
Steve Brown (48:29):
So Thibaud is spelled Thibaud at loomly
l-o-o-m-l-y.com. Thibaud hasbeen a really good conversation.
I've learned some good stuffhere and fascinated by this
because it's one of the biggestproblems that businesses face is
how to do well on social media.
It's so confusing. It's sochanging. But we do need the
(48:53):
tools to help be more strategicto do it. Right. So I'm, we
appreciate you being on the ROIonline podcast.
Thibaud Clement (49:04):
Thank you so much for having me, Steve. It
was really a pleasure speakingwith you, Jose.
Steve Brown (49:08):
Alright, that's a wrap. Thanks for listening to
another fun episode of the ROIonline podcast. For more, be
sure to check out the show notesof this episode. And feel free
to connect with me on LinkedInwhere we can chat, and I can
help direct you to the resourcesyou're searching for. To learn
more about how you can grow yourbusiness better. Be sure to pick
(49:30):
up your copy of my book, TheGolden toilet at surprise that
golden toilet.com I'm SteveBrown, and we'll see you next
week on another fun episode ofthe ROI online podcast.
Because you know, you are probably going to
pose the same thing on onFacebook and Twitter and
LinkedIn, but maybe on Facebook,it's going to be a bit longer on
Twitter is going to be shortermaybe with hashtags, and on
LinkedIn is it will have tomaybe have a more formal tone.
But the underlying idea that youare sharing is roughly the same.
Otherwise, it's just a differentpose. And so the way we have
(00:25):
built Lumi, is you have to stepone ID and date. Step two, is
selecting the channel. Stepthree is defining what we call
generate content, which iscontent that is going to be
common to all channels that youhave selected. And you know,
it's in terms of copy andassets. But then step four is
where it gets really interestingis what we call the fine tuning
(00:47):
step. And so you are going toget like, you know, a mock up
for Facebook, a mock up forTwitter, a mock up for LinkedIn,
that is generated automaticallybased on the Generate campaign.
And then from there, you cantweak it. Hi, everybody.
Steve Brown (01:01):
Welcome to the ROI online podcast where we believe
you, the courageousentrepreneurs of our day, are
the invisible heroes of oureconomy. You not only improve
our world with your ideas, yourgrit and your passion, but you
make our world better. I'm SteveBrown. And this is a place where
we have great conversations withwinners just like you while we
(01:25):
laugh and learn together.
Welcome to the ROI onlinepodcast Thibaud Clement.
Thibaud Clement (01:36):
I Steve, thanks for having me.
Steve Brown (01:38):
So, you know, people that listen to this
podcast, they're wondering whythey should listen to this
particular episode. And sohere's the thing is that
YouTube's really confusing issomething that we all know that
we need to take advantage of it.
LinkedIn is confusing, and weknow that we should take
advantage of it. And then wehear about these other platforms
(01:59):
like Tick tock, etc. And yet,there is not clear and yet you
have a company loomly.com. Andyou come from this space. So
tell us a little bit about whyyou're an excellent person to
listen to and get clarity onthis.
Thibaud Clement (02:20):
Okay, I'll try.
I'll try. Yeah, well, you know,so I do come from an advertising
background. And I've basicallybeen working in digital
marketing for about 10 years,all the time, I've been working
with my schools, No, me, youknow, it's actually Lumi is the
fourth company that we arebuilding together. And, you
know, before lumely, we had anadvertising agency, we were
(02:43):
operating both in France, whereour largest and most famous
client was L'Oreal, and we weremanaging five brands for them,
luxury product division, andhere in the US, where we were
helping, you know, fast growingstartups, trying to, you know,
get more traction and moregrowth. And, and so that was one
process, you know, that was Comeon, like to all those clients
(03:04):
began small, French andAmerican, no matter the vertical
is that we had to prepare,produce, and submit to them some
content to publish on theirsocial media accounts. In all of
that, believe it or not, washappening through spreadsheets,
you know, in muscle time inExcel. And if you actually
(03:24):
speak, you know, is anyone whois actually doing or preparing
like an editorial plan or anentire calendar, they will tell
you most probably, that they usesome kind of spreadsheet, maybe
Excel, maybe Google Sheets, orsome kind of evolved version.
But the truth is, spreadsheetswere not meant for that they are
rific for numbers, when you wantto do like a profit and loss
(03:48):
statement or businessman, butthey are not great for media and
text later on collaboration. Andso that was a very repetative
process time consuming. And and,and, you know, error prone. And
so at some point, you know,know, me and I, we started like,
looking for alternatives andways to improve that process.
And and we could only findonline like to, you know,
(04:11):
specific sets of tools. Thefirst company of tools was
basically what we could call ageneric project management
software, which is great toorganize collaboration within a
team, but doesn't really coverthe publishing workflow that
marketing teams need, becauseonce you have your content, you
want to, you know, spread itonline for everyone to see. And
(04:31):
then there was another family ofproducts, which was, you know,
what we could call the socialmedia schedulers. And those were
terrific at actually spreadingthe content, but they were not
helping you produce it. And so,that's, you know, where we kind
of identify like, you know, somekind of gap and because we
couldn't find a real solutionthat we wanted, we just started
(04:52):
building it. I'm not anengineer. I you know, graduated
from two business schools butThey are interesting on my own.
And by the end of 2015, they hada prototype up and running,
which we started using with ourclients. And we did not tell
them, it was our own product,because we wanted some, you
know, honest feedback andnudges, like, yeah, good job
(05:13):
guys gone. And they liked it.
And so from there, we open it upin public beta, and in the
scene, a tiny little productthat they had just built it not
in my garage, it's not SiliconValley, but but you know, in my
living room, you know, kind of,you know, was getting some
traction. And if we flashforward to today, we are now
(05:35):
extremely lucky to serve over7000 marketing teams, across the
globe. In we're growing about100% a year. So it's pretty,
pretty exciting in, we now haveall those marketing teams, you
know, manage their assets, forsocial media, in a library, we
help them we give them someideas about you know what to
(05:57):
post in, we help them createthose posts, build the visuals,
create the like some kind ofmock up so that you can preview
what the post is going to looklike before you actually publish
it. And then we have an entire,like, teamwork flow, where you
can actually, you know,collaborate and say, Hey, I love
this pose. No, there was a typoin this one, please change the
image in that one. So that, youknow, anything that goes out
(06:21):
that goes live is actually onbrand, and you know, kind of
telling the right story for yourbrand. And then you know, of
course you publish it, and thenyou measure your success is
analytics, and you can respondto any comments you get. My
point is to kind of get to yourinitial question is, we are now
integrated with Facebook,Instagram, Twitter, Pinterest,
(06:43):
LinkedIn, Google My Business,YouTube, tik tok Snapchat. So
and because, you know, we havethese kind of bird's eye view of
like, you know, everythingthat's happening on all those
platforms, with so many poststhat goes through our platform.
Every month, we kind of have,you know, some some insights
into kind of what's working,what's not. And we're seeing
(07:04):
that going in the future. Thatmakes sense. Yeah, totally.
Steve Brown (07:07):
So in my book, I talk about, you know, everybody,
everybody's convinced they needto be posting on social media,
but they don't know what to do.
It, especially the clients thatwe work with, they're, they're
trying to run a business, theyhave 20 or less employees. And
they have to figure out thisconfusing thing on social media,
but they know there's someexpectation that it can help
(07:28):
them grow their business. And sothey start throwing things
against the wall, hey, it's,it's Veterans Day, let's post a
picture on Veterans Day. Andthen it's Dog Day, grab, grab a
little, little sissy, and let'sget a picture of her and get it
posted. But there's not a realstrategy behind it. And then
there's this communicationbreakdown between the social
(07:52):
media people that you're tryingto get to help you and how to do
it correctly? How does lumelyreally start to address the
strategy? And where you wantthese people to go? If they do
click on a post? How do we knowwhere to put them so that we can
get a better value of thisinvestment of energy?
Thibaud Clement (08:15):
Yeah, um, you know, this is, this is very
interesting, because the firstkind of question that you kind
of raise is like, you know, youwant to post you need to post
you don't really know what yousay, and then you kind of like,
take things kind of piecemeal,and you're like, oh, two days,
Veterans Day, and each postabout that. And then you kind of
(08:35):
like, the kind of prime is whenyou do it like this meal. And
and you don't have this kind ofstrategic view of what you're
trying to say, it is correct,that you may end up with kind
of, you know, like series ofposts that you know, are back to
back and don't really meananything, don't retell a story.
So the most important thing is,it's actually probably the most
(09:02):
underrated trick, but it's, it'swhat we used to do as an agency
is that you don't want to bethinking at 9am about what you
are going to be posting at 10am.
That's, that's, that's a recipefor disaster. What you want to
be doing instead, is you want tosit down, you want to look at,
you know, the upcoming month. Solet's say, you know, we sit down
today and we look at, you know,what December is going to look
(09:24):
like, and we're like, okay, as abrand. What do I want to tell as
a story in December, you know,how am I going to talk about the
holidays in the current context?
You know, are there any specificmilestones that I want to share?
Are there any specific companyrelated events that they want to
(09:45):
share? And are there some ofthose, you know, date related
holidays that are mentioningVeterans Day or international
Dog Day? One marriage is it'snot you know, that you should
not be talking about those. It'sthat you should use those and
leverage those to end Korea.
Communication onto those and andexplain how you're relevant as a
brand in this context. And so tokind of be like in a very
(10:07):
practical, again, if you sitdown, you look at the upcoming
months, and you say, Okay, whatyou know, am I going to tell as
a story over 10 or 20 posts,then you know, it's much easier
one to go from, you know, ablank page to an actual series
of 20 posts, that makes senseto, it's much easier to actually
(10:27):
tell a compelling story, becauseyou can see how you know, one
post is going to build onto theothers and kind of respond to
the others. And three, when youdo it like that, not only is
kind of, you know, the qualitygoing to be better, but your
efficiency is going to bebetter, because it's much easier
to look at your kind of, youknow, your calendar and say, I'm
(10:49):
going to post, publish those 20posts, and you start by finding
the ideas, and then you find itfor all 20 posts, then you go
into the next stage, which isI'm going to actually crap the
copy and find the visuals. Andthen you know, you go on to the
next step, which is okay, I'mgoing to preview all those in
sequence and see, you know, whatthe story they're telling and
(11:10):
submit them to my team to see,you know, what they think about
it. And I believe that, youknow, this is kind of leading me
to the second part of yourquestion, which is basically,
how do you collaborate? How doyou maximize efficiency? And how
do you kind of implement bestpractices as a team? Yeah.
So well, that's, that's thething, if you have, you know,
(11:31):
Daniel work, and you have, youknow, kind of created your
content ahead of time, and youhave those 20 posts for the
month of December, well, thenyou can, you know, invite your
team and say, Hey, what do youthink about this? And what do
you think about that, and whatwe tend to see from the top bear
for me brands, is that theyusually want to have one thing
(11:54):
in common is that it's actuallynot a one person job. It's like
a team working together, andmost of the time with people
that you may not expect to beinvolved in a marketing process.
For instance, you know, one ofour largest clients, that I
would rather not disclose theirname, because they are publicly
traded. But because they arepublicly traded, what they need
(12:18):
is to involve the CFO in theprocess, because anything that
goes out, you know, on socialmedia, can potentially affect
the stock price. So this isextremely important. And it's
not only for, you know, largecompanies that are publicly
traded, even if you are asmaller company, but maybe you
are in a regulated industry, oryou want to make sure that you
(12:40):
don't publish anything, youknow, that that could create a
liability for, you know, rent orjust because you want to be
accurate in everything you say,it's a best practice to work in
a cross functional collaborationfashion, where, you know, maybe
you mean that you invite theproduct people, because they
will be able to explain, youknow, a great feature that you
may have no sort of add as asocial media manager, you can,
(13:03):
you know, invite thesalespeople, because they may be
able to give you some insightsabout what people are saying on
the field or question that theyhave, and that you can answer in
your post, and so on and soforth. You know, you can also
invite the HR people, we aregoing to talk about LinkedIn.
So, you know, employer brandingis really important. So, yes,
you need to invite the HR peopleto collaborate on this process,
(13:24):
because they will tell you, yes,that makes sense in the context
of our employer brand, and soon, and so forth. So, all these
to say that, it's not a oneperson job, work, you know, kind
of ahead of time and in batch,involve as many different skills
as you can. And these four willmake the whole process more
(13:44):
efficient and more effective.
Steve Brown (13:46):
So in my book, I talk about how I'm actually this
is a legitimate business processthat we're talking about, okay?
It used to be in a union,imagine small companies with 20
or less employees, they'retrying to get something out
there because they see otherbrands doing it, and your
clients or your customers areexpecting you to do it. But it's
(14:08):
like, it's always just anotherthing, we're going to tick off a
task but but what I really wantthese heroes, these
entrepreneurs to know is thatthis is a legitimate business
process. Well, what that meansyou have to set up a strategy,
you have to have a process and asystem and a communication for
(14:30):
for you to take intoconsideration HR or the
marketing or the sales so thatthis actually moves the needle
for the business some way is thetool that you're lumely that you
you've invented, is that is thata process based tool that helps
you shortcut all these thingsthat usually would have to put
(14:51):
together in some Frankensteinsystem?
Thibaud Clement (14:55):
Absolutely.
Exactly. You know, as I wasexplaining, you know, we want to
cover the cost But we want tocover the publishing part, when
you use rumely. First, forinstance, if we kind of go
through the process, you know,what you start with this, you
have a library where you canmanage all your assets. So
first, you don't have like, youdon't need to have like Dropbox
(15:15):
or anything where you have toshare your files, know
everything in one central place,you have your photos, your
videos, your links, your notes,whatever you want, you know, all
these kind of intelligence andbrand assets that you may have,
you can have them here at theready, that's number one. And on
top of that, and that's going tobe a pretty neat feature is, if
you don't have any of thoseassets, we are actually
(15:35):
integrated with some platforms,like unsplash, and GCP. And you
can actually pull down importantsome assets from those platforms
for free. So even if you don'thave like a beautiful
photograph, or like, I don'tknow, the sunrise or sunset for
your inspirational quote, well,you can just put it down in like
one second two clicks, and it'sfree. So that's one thing we
help you, you know, organize theassets, to, we provide you with
(15:59):
some ideas about what to postand that's, you know, kind of
the next step into into theprocess. So, we tell you about
those, those funny days, it'sfunny, social media holidays
you're mentioning, but we also,you know, piggyback on to the
trends to tell you what istrending. And we also kind of,
you know, lets you connect someRSS feeds into your calendar. So
(16:20):
that, you know, if you have ablog, for instance, then any
kind of new blog posts that youpublish will be kind of fed into
your calendar to be transformedinto into a post. And you can
also add your very own custompost ideas, like I don't know,
if it's the 20th anniversary ofyour company, or if you just you
know, pass like a revenuemilestone or anything that you
want to share and celebrate, youcan actually input it into
(16:42):
there. And then from there, youknow, so you have assets, you
have ideas, you craft your post,and that's where I kind of, you
know, only really helps youbecause the way we you create a
post in lumely, is you actuallyhave what we call pose builder,
which is a step by step wizard,that take you back at hand and
tells you here's what you needto do here. And here's what you
(17:03):
need to do there to go from thatidea to accompany posts. And
finally, to kind of go about getdown to really your question, we
have what we call post viewwhere you can preview the post,
and you can from post view, youcan assign a post to your
collaborators to say, Hey, canyou look into that, please, you
have a state. So the post can bein draft, in pending approval
(17:25):
approved or scheduled if it hasbeen scheduled? And you can
leave comments, you can say,Hey, can we change the so that,
can we I don't like that post,can we actually cancel it to
even have it canceled state. Andso you have a history of all of
that history of audio changes,so that the workflow is actually
you know, kind of track. Andthen from there you publish it,
(17:47):
you receive an invitation for,you know, when you get like,
kind of, you know, like acomment mentioned or message in
all those you can also assign toyour collaborators. So that, you
know, you can say, Oh, this is aquestion I don't know how to
answer. I'm going to assign, youknow, john, who is in sales. So
this is also kind of theconversion but and then you have
(18:09):
the final part, which is theanalytics, because as you
mentioned, it's a process, wewant to move the needle. So you
have an entire analyticsdashboard that helps you report
on your progress, your growth,and see what is working what is
not. On top of that, we areactually in the process of
releasing a pretty cool newfeature that is called custom
workflow. And it's actuallytaking everything I just
(18:32):
explained to a whole new level,because it allows you to
download some rules. So forinstance, you can determine some
rules where you say, as soon asI create a post, and it's
becoming pending approval, Iwant it to be assigned to john,
and, and, you know, they anautomatically so they don't even
(18:53):
have to click the button so thatanytime you create a post and
you need it to be approved, thenjohn and Diana will receive a
notification telling them thatthey need to come in see it and
approve it. So that's a prettycool new feature. And another
thing that you can do is you canalso say, you know, I want to be
I want to enforce some kind oflimits on, you know, who needs
(19:16):
to actually approve a postbefore it can go live. We call
those walls. And the idea isthat, you know, we can say,
Okay, this has been approved byTiVo, but it cannot actually be
scheduled until john and Dianehave approved it. So that you
know, you also have some kind ofsecurity and safety net. So yes,
(19:37):
I I'm tempted to say that itdoes address these workflow and
in process approach that youwere referring to, sort of the
traps of social media to me ourfirst time wasting if you're not
doing it right,
Steve Brown (19:56):
then then, you know, we've done we've managed
Social media for clients. But ifyou misspell a word, like you or
your, and you put the wrongversion of that the client can
be, it can really be Pennell, itcan penalize you, just because
of a small little mistake forwhatever reason, they put so
(20:18):
much weight on what you do onsocial media, which conveys
there's this big expectation ofit. But then let's say you get a
post in really perfect and it'sout there, then there's the
whole interactive side thatusually lost or not taken
advantage of. And so there's alot of ways to waste a lot of
(20:39):
money, not to it right, not takeadvantage of it. And you can't
afford to hire an army of peopleto do it. Right. That's really
frustrating for small brands.
Yeah.
Thibaud Clement (20:52):
I understand.
And that's why, you know, youwant to be as efficient as you
can. In C, you know, and likeyou you like you said, you want
to have a process and aworkflow, where you know, who is
involved? And who needs to dowhat and when? And, well, it
turns out that, you know, loomlykind of support you in that, but
even if you don't use loomly,that's what you should have, you
(21:13):
should have this process where,you know, who is supposed to
create the post? Who is supposedto approve them? We some kind of
tracking of who said yes, whenbecause, you know, like you say,
let's say there was a typo, butyou know, like, did the client
approve it or not, if the clientapproved it, there was a typo,
but didn't even catch it either.
(21:36):
So this way, you know, you havesome kind of tracking safety net
and liability management system,I would say. And this is very
important. And then for what youmentioned, like responding to
any engagement andcollaboration, sorry, engagement
and interaction that you thatyou receive from your content,
(21:57):
which is kind of the goal, theposting is not the goal,
building your brand isinteracting with your audience
is and and growing this kind ofyou know, trust and momentum
around your brand is so huge.
Also, it should be clearlydefined, who is supposed to do
that. And then again, you can doit organically, you can use a
tool that can automate it foryou and anyone who signs you
tasks that you need to perform.
(22:21):
But the truth is, what mattersis who is in charge of what in
when.
Steve Brown (22:25):
So it's like, here's the other thing, that's
really a gotcha, let's say youdo have a good social media
person, you do have a goodstrategy and a process and the
sign offs. One post has to beformatted in multiple platforms,
when you take their LinkedIn hasits idiosyncrasies, YouTube,
(22:46):
yeah, big time, we're gonna eventalk about Tick tock, you know,
and, and all these, how doeslumely help you handle all
these, these multiple formatsthat you need to really avoid a
bunch of gotchas, doing itwrong?
Thibaud Clement (23:04):
Yeah, that's, that's an excellent question.
And so, in lumely, you know, Iwas explaining earlier that we
have built this feature calledcalled post builder. And so it
takes you by the hand throughthe creation process, or the
production process of your post,step two, in the process. So
step one is basically you know,defining like finding the idea
and choosing the date. Step two,is selecting the channels,
(23:28):
you're going to publish yourpost on. And so, you know, you
may set like, like, you know,Facebook and Twitter and
LinkedIn, for instance. And likeyou say, those platforms have
different requirements, and andthe usage is different, and the
expectations of users aredifferent. So the way we have
built kind of the next steps ofpost builder is based on how we
(23:53):
use to handle that part of theprocess before in the famous or
infamous spreadsheets. The waywe used to do it is we would
have one central theme, youknow, one central idea for post
that would, you know, be kind ofreplicated for his channel and
slightly tweaked, we should sayfine tuned, because you know,
(24:14):
you are probably going to posethe same thing on on Facebook
and Twitter and LinkedIn, butmaybe on Facebook, it's going to
be a bit longer on Twitter isgoing to be shorter, maybe with
hashtags. And on LinkedIn, it'sit will have to maybe have a
more formal tone. But theunderlying idea that you are
sharing is roughly the same.
Otherwise, it's just a differentpost. And so we have built
lumieres you have so step one,ID and date. Step two is
(24:39):
selecting the channel. Stepthree is defining what we call
generic content, which iscontent that is going to be
common to all the channels thatyou have selected. And you know,
it's in terms of copy andassets. But then step four is
where it gets really interestingis what we call the fine tuning
step and so on. You are going toget like, you know, a mock up
(25:01):
for Facebook, a mock up forTwitter, a mock up for LinkedIn
that is generated automaticallybased on the generate content.
And then from there, you cantweak it for each one. So no
copy and paste, no need to kindof, you know, like upload
several times the same file.
Nope, you are here. And you cancheck everything for his
channel, we let you know if yourpost is too long on Twitter, we
(25:25):
let you know if your image istoo heavy on LinkedIn, and this
kind of thing. So that you know,when you are fine tuning each
post and you're ready to saveyour post, you are confident
that is going to get posted as acheat on each platform and
customize voice. But I
Steve Brown (25:43):
want to pause here just for a moment and talk to
you about a program that we havejust released called ROI
quickstart Academy for authors.
Every day, I talk to businessowners just like you who
struggle with quickly gettingtheir fundamentals in place. We
want to create a greatfoundation and we want to grow
our business. But the thingsthat are in our way, our lack of
(26:05):
knowledge about the specifics weshould put in place, what kind
of technology what kind ofmessaging and what kind of
campaigns and that problemexists for authors as well. And
we just chill so good withauthors because, well, I'm an
author, and I understandeverything that you struggle
with, you have a great idea youhave a great book, but what do
(26:28):
you want to do, you want to getyour book in front of more
people, you want to make it easyfor them to find you learn how
they can schedule a time to talkwith you hire you for a
conference, or maybe sign up forthe services that your book
promotes. So what is theQuickstart Academy for authors?
Imagine working with a smallgroup of like minded authors,
and the experts from the ROIquickstart team, it's a great
(26:53):
way to get your messaging clearto be confident with the
technology in your marketingautomation, and how to run a
strategic campaign to get youmore of what you want from the
investment of your book. Tolearn more about the Quickstart
Academy for authors, you canvisit ROI online.com or click in
the link in the show notesbelow. And now back to this
(27:17):
episode. So that leads us to thenext gotcha is like they're
there. Each of these platformshave algorithms, and they change
every day. And so there'sthere's great recommendations on
when's the best time to post onthis platform like the worst
(27:38):
time to post on the other? Howdoes loomly? Or how does one
that has a small team becomeproficient at understanding that
and taking advantage of an everchanging? Yeah, yeah,
environment.
Thibaud Clement (27:55):
So there are two things that we do to help
you with that. The first thing,it's not that I've driven, in
the sense that it's not based onyour own account, but it's based
on studies and experiments andinformation that we have. And so
is what we call postoptimization tips. So we have
(28:17):
those, you know, General bestpractices that we know, you
probably have seen studiesonline, you know about like,
indeed, like, when is the besttime to post this day to post
the idea of copy links and thiskind of thing. And so what we do
is we have built those rulesinto our platform. And we have a
very simple, you know, greenorange in red system, where we
(28:40):
tell you for each attribute ofyour post, whether you know,
you're doing great for thosebest practices, or whether you
can improve, or whether werecommend that you should really
be doing something else. And sowe do it for the days, we do it
for the times, we do it for thecookie legs, we do it for the
engagement markers to include inyour your copy. So you know, for
(29:01):
instance, do you have like,hashtags and at mentions and,
and even like question marks orexclamation points, emojis,
these kind of things that, youknow, we know, tend to lift
engagement. And we also, youknow, look at kind of the format
of your posts like is the linkit's a simple copy post is like
an image video. What is it andso for each platform will tell
(29:24):
you, well, you can do it. Butbased on the best practices here
is you know, if you want tooptimize your post, here's what
you can try. That's kind of thefirst thing same for everyone,
not customized for each person.
It's just kind of you know,General best practices. And then
there is the other part which iscustomized and which is I in my
(29:45):
sense, probably the mostinteresting is that we have this
analytics dashboard, which youcan look into at any time. And
it will tell you you know, foreach post, like how many You
know, clicks and impressions andreach and in the engagement
you've got, and it will alsorank your post, like, you will
(30:09):
have a top three and a flatthree for for each month. And
so, these actually tells youwhat your particular audience is
more responsive to. So let youknow the next time. So you know
we are, we have prepared all 20posts for December, we have
published those, and we are nowat the end of December, we're
looking at, you know, January.
(30:31):
So what we do is, instead ofjust starting from scratch
again, we go to the analyticsdashboard, and we look at, you
know, the posts that work thebest, you know, in, you know,
where do we talk about, when didwe publish them? How long were
they were the images or like,videos or links, and then we try
to incorporate that kind offeedback into our next planning
(30:53):
session for the 20 posts thatwe're getting to publish in
January. So it's kind of youknow, an iterative process. And
that's how you actually bestlearn to kind of adapt to the
ongoing changes of thealgorithms because well, like
you said, the general time.
Steve Brown (31:08):
So to all this talk about video now, when I think
about the, probably theplatforms that most companies
are weak on or need to up theirgame, their platforms that
really reward video, that wouldbe LinkedIn, that would be
YouTube, that would be Tick Tockand I have to confess, I haven't
(31:29):
even been on tik tok. Okay,there's like, so many different
platforms, I don't know whichone. I do think YouTube. And
LinkedIn, at least for what wedo is like the best place to
focus, but then there'sInstagram, and there, there's
Facebook and talk to us abouthow to look at video and how to
(31:50):
take advantage of thisopportunity. And it's a big
competitive advantage if you getit right. Right.
Thibaud Clement (31:56):
Now, of course, it is. And, and, you know, for
sure, to us, like, you know, weare integrated with with YouTube
were into it, it was LinkedInand was most platforms out
there. To us, YouTube isprobably one of the most often
overlooked platform. Because,you know, creating videos is
(32:19):
frightening. So you know, thereis this kind of barrier to
entry, where you're like, maybeI don't have the budget to I
don't have the skills to createsome videos. But the thing is,
the rewards are undeliverablefor a couple of reasons. YouTube
is one of the most visitedwebsites on the planet after
Google. So that's just for one,the rich is almost unlimited,
(32:42):
it's it's probably, you know,half of the planet who is
actually logging into YouTube.
So it's just it's huge. That's,that's, that's one, two, YouTube
is actually very interesting inthe way it works, because it
does have some social features.
So the algorithms, and you cansubscribe to channel, and you
(33:03):
can build like an audience. Andyou can have likes and dislikes
and comments and things. That'strue. But it also works and
doubles as a search engine.
Because you have many peoplewho, you know, they are looking
on how to do something, and theywill either look it up directly
on Google. But then, you know,we know that YouTube residents
actually show up very well inGoogle, because well, YouTube
(33:26):
belongs to Google. Or to theywill actually go to YouTube, and
look straight up for a recipe,or a DIY tutorial, or how to do
some home improvement or, or,you know, even like in the b2b
sector, like how to do socialmedia marketing, or SEO, this
kind of thing. So YouTube hasthis search engine power, which
is tremendous, and which islike, you know, a huge advantage
(33:50):
over some other social networks,because you're probably not
going to go on other socialnetworks and look for something
like that, you're not going togo to Facebook and look for a
recipe or go to Twitter. Andthat's not how it works, but
YouTube does. So that's a hugeadvantage. And the last thing,
which is actually phenomenal tome, is that you have the ability
(34:10):
to build on YouTube, audiencesof amazing sizes, with huge
engagement. If you just likelook at some accounts that are
like exploding, what you willsee is that it took them some
time to go from, you know, zeroto maybe 1000 100,000 a million
(34:31):
subscribers. But then once theyare there, it just like their,
their growth is exponential. Andthat's, you know, really to the
the YouTube algorithm for sure,which tend to kind of, you know,
push a channel such you know,have been publishing steadily
and that, you know, aren't goingto be reliable. So that's where
it's interesting, because onYouTube, you can actually build
(34:55):
you know, defensiveness bybeing, you know, By showing up
and producing videos regularly.
So to me, it's an amazingadvantage to, like I said, have
this amazing rich, have thosesearch engine capabilities, and
having the similar teachabledefensiveness over time was in
(35:15):
that audience, which, you know,on other platforms, it's getting
more complicated.
Steve Brown (35:20):
So you're connected to all these platforms where you
can publish into them?
Obviously, you're probablyreceiving analytics and data and
insights from that. What is whatis your data revealing about
LinkedIn and the best way totake advantage of LinkedIn?
Thibaud Clement (35:37):
Yeah, so we have to be careful about you
know, because we, it's not like,we are going to be looking into
our users data or anything, oh,that is private. But on
LinkedIn, one thing that weconsistently see here is that
you have your company pages, andyou have your individual
profiles. Interestingly, youknow, those two work very well
(35:59):
hand in hand, where you know, onyour company page, you will
probably, you know, publish somevery corporate content, and then
on your individual pages, youcan actually share your, your
company page corporate content,but you can also, you know,
share things about your careerand your achievements and things
like that. And it's actually wehave a blog post on our blog,
(36:20):
but that where we actuallyexplained that using certain
leadership from one of yourexecutives, or founders, and
leveraging their individualprofile is a pretty good hack to
actually get even more exposurethan just simply publishing
through your, through your, yourcompany page. And that's, you
(36:41):
know, it makes sense. Because ifyou think about it, you you
always happy to hear, you know,directly from the founder of a
brand that you like, or thesoftware that you use, or an
agency that you want to workwith. And so that makes it just
more human. Yes, it'sprofessional. Yes, it's b2b. But
yes, it's also human. And thatis, I believe, also in the
(37:03):
current context more importantthan ever. Yeah. In human
Steve Brown (37:07):
psyche competitive advantage now just being?
Thibaud Clement (37:11):
Yeah. So.
Steve Brown (37:14):
So what's, what's one good question that people
don't ask you that, that youwished you could be answering on
this?
Thibaud Clement (37:24):
On? Like, on social media?
Steve Brown (37:27):
Yeah, well, and obviously, you design lumely to
help people excel in this area.
But there's usually like aquestion you wish people would
ask you, but they don't?
Thibaud Clement (37:38):
Yeah, well, the thing, you know, is, is, like,
everyone, you know, is seem tobe like trying to get there
fast. Like, they want to set upan account, I'm sure your
clients, they're like, likethat, maybe, you know, they
they're not showing the mostpatients and, you know, your
(37:58):
podcast is our I write our eyeon line. And so I write has to
be here. And now, the thing is,our eyes is, you know, is kind
of a reward in the long term forbuilding your brand. Meaning
that you know, it's not becauseyou're just going to open up a
Facebook page or Instagramaccount, that all of a sudden,
you're going to go viral. Andeven if you go viral, is going
(38:20):
to last for 24 hours, and thenyou're going to be forgotten,
because another person is goingto go viral. So the most
important thing is how do youbuild your brand? over time? How
do you stay relevant, and howyou actually build this
defensiveness that I wasmentioning, because going viral
is not defensiveness going viralis is being lucky. And what you
(38:43):
want is building thisdefensiveness meaning that, you
know, your audience is going tobe interested in what you say.
Because you take care of them,you publish great content that
they like, and you show up,you're not like, I publish,
like, two posts, like at thesame day, and I'm, and I'm not
here for a month, that's notwhat you want. What do you want
is, you know, regularityperiodicity, where you show up,
(39:07):
you tell your brand story thatresonates with your audience.
And, and, and, you know, youjust be you are here
consistently, and that's how youactually build an audience. And
that's how you're rewarded. Andso I think that, you know, the,
the most important questionhere, whether people want to ask
it to me or not, is, is like,how do you brand how to be? How
(39:28):
do you build your brand onsocial media? And and the answer
is you do it over time. That'sthe answer.
Does it make sense?
Steve Brown (39:37):
So there's no shortcut. That means like,
that's like,
Thibaud Clement (39:42):
I don't think there is. I don't think there
is.
Steve Brown (39:45):
Yeah, I think just like in any domain, consistent,
strategic, long, March, and mostpeople give up after a little
bit, and that's why it's acompetitive advantage. Do the
long game. Yeah.
Thibaud Clement (40:02):
Yeah, exactly.
You know, like we say often thatnothing beats perseverance.
That's true. And so that's,that's the first thing but but I
also think and that's, you know,again, that's, that's after 10
years in the field, I reallybelieve that consistency beats
creativity every time, everytime. Because you know, maybe
you are genius, one day, youput, you know, you put all your
(40:24):
energy into this nice design,then you don't have any more
stamina for the next one. Andso, again, it's not one, one
beautiful picture, or one niceas for me to post as an
interview brand, what is the wayto build your brand is the
emotion that you're going tocreate with your audience, and
the fact that they're going tobe happy to see a post from you.
And that even more importantly,they're going to expect to see a
(40:45):
post from you. And so that issomething that you achieve with
consistency, not like, you know,creative genius. So, you know,
it's just a sweat. That's whatyou should be putting into it.
Steve Brown (40:59):
So what's the platform that has, most people
are not taking advantage ofright now other than YouTube?
What's and what's the strategythat you should be applied to
that platform?
Thibaud Clement (41:13):
While you think we mentioned LinkedIn, and I
think that LinkedIn is extremelyinteresting, for it's
interesting for, of course, b2bmarketers, so if you do sell
products to the company, becausethey are there, you know, most
of them are there. LinkedIn isalready huge. And it keeps
growing. So I think it's afundamental platform. And so
(41:38):
it's also interesting for b2cbrands, because maybe they're
not going to sell their producton LinkedIn, because maybe it's
not the place to do it. But theycan still build their employer
branding. And employer brandingis actually extremely important.
And it's, of course, important,because you want to attract
(41:58):
talents. And then once you kindof hire those talents, you want
to retain them, meaning, youknow, they, you want them to be
proud to be part of your of yourteam. And actually, you know,
involving your employees intosharing content on LinkedIn is
actually one of the best growthhacks that you can think about.
But it's also important foractually for your customers,
(42:21):
because you know, when you knowthat such brand, is one of the
best companies to work for you,you know, it just contributes to
your perception of the brand.
And so maybe it's not going totrigger a sale right now. But
it's going to actually maybemake you you know, more
interested in whichever adthey're going to run next. And
maybe it will also make you lessprice sensitive to whatever
(42:42):
innovation they're going tolaunch. And so, because you will
be thinking about, you know,yes, people are happy to work
there, they are one of the bestplaces to work, so they must be
doing something, right. And thatin and of itself, it just
doesn't only build the employerbrand, it also builds just the
actual brand. Because you seevalue in what they do. And I
(43:03):
think this is, you know,extremely important in actually
for businesses
Steve Brown (43:08):
of all sizes. So where did your passion come for
this industry? Why, why? Whyconnecting all of these
disparate things together andsolving a problem that's never
ending, and always changing?
Thibaud Clement (43:26):
Well, that, you know, in itself is actually a
pretty good reason. But, but,you know, it's, uh, you know, I
like to joke about the fact thatLumia is basically your love
story. Like, like I said, I was,I've been working with mice
who's known me for nine years.
And so, you know, she was theone in charge of the
spreadsheets. So, you know, Iwanted to help her, I wanted to
(43:48):
make her day and her job easier.
So that's why I went into thecode and build it. So I would
say that's, you know, where mypassion come from. But But then,
you know, the real thing is,once you kind of scratch the
surface of such a big problem,and that is, like you just said,
Never ending, then and you know,you are able to communicate with
(44:11):
your clients and your customers,because we speak with over 200
customers every single day,through customer support, and
they all have my email address,they, you know, I receive tons
of emails every day, and I readthem all, like respond to them
or so we have this constantfeedback. And these, you know,
kind of shapes our vision, as wekeep growing about, you know,
(44:32):
where we need to take theproduct and the company, you
know, which features matterwhich bugs Do we need to fix?
How can we improve the UI, allof these things, and as you have
all those, you know, little datapoints every single day. It's
like an impressionist painting.
It kind of forms a very clearimage. Once you have this clear
image as an entrepreneur, it'sreally hard to forget about it
(44:53):
and only want to do is basicallygo and achieve that vision. So
that is a huge drive. For us,for me, but for me as well,
because now that we haveidentified this pain point, and
you know, we have a pretty goodidea of what people want, it
will be pretty frustrating to goall the way and actually deliver
it.
Steve Brown (45:13):
So what's the most surprising thing about social
media to you now that you didn'texpect eight years ago, six
years ago?
Thibaud Clement (45:24):
Probably to see my parents on it. But no, I
think what what is extremelyinteresting here is to see how
it kind of snowballed from, youknow, something that was kind
of, you know, niche practice,into something so mainstream,
and I think it's reallyinteresting. I know, there's a
(45:44):
lot of noise about, you know,how, like, the negatives of
social media, but but in a, youknow, you are probably aware of
all of them. But, you know, Ithink they also create great
scene, they enhance creativity,they unlock new opportunities,
and they connect people. And Ithink that this is pretty
amazing to me that, you know, welive in the US, we have family
(46:05):
in France, we can talk to them,like they're in the next room,
that's just so amazing. Like Isaid, we are we are a startup,
we have 7000 clients around theworld, that's pretty amazing to
me, the fact that you know, andthat's also part of social
media, the fact that, you know,we can be based in the US and
serve clients in Australia, andand in France, and in Canada, or
(46:26):
Mexico, and Ms. And it's prettyamazing to be so, you know,
social media is pretty inspiringin its in its market penetration
rate, I would say.
Steve Brown (46:37):
All right, so just a couple more questions. Which
country? I guess it's the US,but which country? Do you think?
Does social media the best?
Thibaud Clement (46:48):
Yeah, do us a pretty good, I mean, it and I
think, you know, it'sinteresting, because in France,
I remember that very, veryclearly. In France, in the early
days, there was kind of these, Iwould say, reluctance to be on
(47:09):
social media, because mostpeople, you know, in France are
a bit more private than they arehere. And so it was like, What
am I going to talk about? Idon't have anything to say, and,
and my life is private, whywould I post about, you know,
going to a restaurant and thefunny, usually, the funny
satirical joke was, Why shouldI? Why should I tweet every time
(47:30):
I pee? That was something likethat. And so I think, you know,
it's, it's interesting to seethat, you know, I've been living
in the US for six years now. Andit makes a lot of sense to me
that the social media came fromhere, because there is a
different culture of, you know,being outgoing and outspoken and
sharing what you do in a very,very organic way, which is a bit
(47:53):
again, like a friend of Europe.
So that's probably why I believeYes, in the US. There is, you
know, a lot to learn.
Steve Brown (48:01):
Thibaud, Clement, how can people connect with you?
The best way
Thibaud Clement (48:07):
up, you can find me on LinkedIn. If you can
spell my name. I know it's veryhard to spell. You can find me
on Twitter, at Thibaud Clement.
And, you know, you can, youknow, visit our website
loomly.com. And you can likeshoot me an email anytime it's
just Thibaud@loomly.com. So likeI said, I receive and open and
read and respond to every email.
Steve Brown (48:29):
So Thibaud is spelled Thibaud at loomly
l-o-o-m-l-y.com. Thibaud hasbeen a really good conversation.
I've learned some good stuffhere and fascinated by this
because it's one of the biggestproblems that businesses face is
how to do well on social media.
It's so confusing. It's sochanging. But we do need the
(48:53):
tools to help be more strategicto do it. Right. So I'm, we
appreciate you being on the ROIonline podcast.
Thibaud Clement (49:04):
Thank you so much for having me, Steve. It
was really a pleasure speakingwith you, Jose.
Steve Brown (49:08):
Alright, that's a wrap. Thanks for listening to
another fun episode of the ROIonline podcast. For more, be
sure to check out the show notesof this episode. And feel free
to connect with me on LinkedInwhere we can chat, and I can
help direct you to the resourcesyou're searching for. To learn
more about how you can grow yourbusiness better. Be sure to pick
(49:30):
up your copy of my book, TheGolden toilet at surprise that
golden toilet.com I'm SteveBrown, and we'll see you next
week on another fun episode ofthe ROI online podcast.
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