Have you ever felt like a hamster on a wheel? Constantly spinning and spinning, but not getting anywhere? As the CEO of your business, there are only so many hours in a day and you need to focus on what's most important: growing your revenue and increasing conversions. In this episode of the ROI Online Podcast, marketing expert and founder of Deadline Funnel Jack Born talks about the future of sales automation, the psychology behind creating urgency to convert customers, and how to do it authentically.
Jack is a marketing expert and the founder of several successful software companies, among them Deadline Funnel—a platform that makes it easy to increase conversions and generate more sales with authentic evergreen marketing. Their mission is to help you cross the divide from where you are now to where your business can be.
The internet has changed the way we do business, and small-business owners are feeling the pinch. But don't stress! With authentic evergreen marketing tactics, you can reach your target audience - including millennials - with minimal effort.
Among other things, Jack and Steve discussed:
- Jack’s back story
- How Deadline Funnel was created
- The future of sales automation and conversion
- What a marketing funnel is and its various stages
- The meaning of full-funnel marketing
- How to create a high converting sales funnel
- How to automate your sales funnel
You can learn more about Jack here:
Follow Jack on LinkedIn
You can learn more about Deadline Funnel here:
https://www.deadlinefunnel.com/
Affiliate link:
https://www.deadlinefunnel.com/?lmref=Vmguzg
Read the books mentioned in this podcast:
The Golden Toilet by Steve Brown
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jack Born (00:03):
Yeah, I would say the very most important thing is, is
your messaging talking behindthat is having a deadline. But
I'm the first to say that adeadline isn't going to revive a
dead marketing funnel. So ifyour messaging is completely
off, or if you've, you're theonly one on planet earth who is
in love with this product thatyou've created. First of all,
(00:24):
you're not alone. Other peoplehave been down that road, I've
committed that saying, so youknow, pick yourself up, you
know, you will succeed in thelong run, as long as you don't
give up. But don't think thatyou can just add a deadline to
it. All of a sudden, things aregonna work, you know, it's
really important to dial in yourmessaging.
Steve Brown (00:40):
Hi, everybody.
Welcome to the ROI onlinepodcast where we believe you,
the courageous entrepreneurs ofour day, are the invisible
heroes of our economy. You notonly improve our world with your
ideas, your grit and yourpassion, but you make our world
better. I'm Steve Brown. Andthis is a place where we have
great conversations with winnersjust like you while we laugh and
(01:03):
learn together.
JACK Bourne, welcome to the ROIonline podcast.
Jack Born (01:16):
Yeah, it's great to be here.
Steve Brown (01:18):
So jack, I'm excited. Your company is
deadline phone calm.
Unknown (01:24):
you've,
Steve Brown (01:25):
you've been quoted in some books that I've read.
Michael Higgs book, storytellingmade easy. I love that book is a
great guy. I haven't beenquoted, and in a book, how did
you pull that off?
Jack Born (01:43):
I didn't know that was gonna happen, really. And so
I met Michael Hague through amutual friend, Andre chaperone,
I don't know if does that namering a bell to you know, you've
you've got to, you've got to geton Andres list. So Andre is a
good friend of mine, and anabsolute genius at email
copywriting. And so I've knownhim for several years, and he
(02:08):
has a story coach, I didn't evenknow I know that you're in the
stories. I didn't even know thata story coach was a thing. But
he was, you know, I should haveknown better. There's a coach
for anything and everythingunder the sun. And so, you know,
Andre, considers himself astoryteller first, who happens
to use the medium of emails toas his canvas. And that's one of
(02:32):
the reasons By the way, quicktip why he's so good at it is
that he really tell stories. Soto continue, like any
professional who treats theirbusiness like a pro, he is
constantly looking to improveand investing in himself and
never considers that he's at thetop of his game, even if
everyone else thinks that he'sat the top of his game. So he
had a story coach, and his storycoach is a guy named Michael
(02:54):
Hague and Michael Haig is, asyou know, a consultant to
Hollywood, they will bring theirscripts to get improved or to
get feedback. It seems likesometimes they take his
feedback, sometimes they don't.
But Michael, you know, Michaelhas been quoted by one of one of
his best testimonials is fromWill Smith v. Will Smith. So,
you know, Michael Hague is thereal deal. So he knows how to
(03:19):
tell stories. I learned a lotfrom him. And so I had the
opportunity to be on a on a on aco sponsored training with
Michael Hague, where he wentthrough one of my emails and
gave me advice in a hot seat.
And that became the recordingsof a of a product that Andre put
together. And I also it's, it'slike we shared ownership of
(03:39):
that. And so that started myrelationship with Michael Hague.
And I kept in touch with them.
And somehow he was kind enoughto put me in his book. So yeah,
that was, that's really how thathappened. It wasn't a grand
plan. It was just a greatcoincidence for me.
Steve Brown (03:54):
Yeah. So when you're quoted in another book,
The 8020 sales and marketing. Soit means that's kind of saying
you got some games. So how, howdid that come to pass?
Jack Born (04:08):
Yeah, so I'll try to keep the story short, but that
one, that one, although myintention wasn't to get into
Perry's book, The author isPerry Marshall. For anyone who
doesn't know about Perry, Iwould recommend buying that book
at 20 sales, a marketing it'sapplicable to anyone in
business, any entrepreneur,whether you're consider yourself
(04:29):
online or offline. And I wasPerry Marshall's marketing
manager for about six years andabout a year and a half into
working with him. I was reallypuzzling on something that just
never felt right to me, which isthis concept of traffic times
conversion equals dollar signs.
And I just felt like you know,there's so it feels like there's
(04:50):
something missing out of thispuzzle and i and i was thinking
on it and my brain just wouldn'tlet it go. And I couldn't come
up with what was missing in Soone day I went on a run, and it
was in that period of notthinking about anything and
going through the runner's highthat the the Epiphany came to
me. And that's when I came upwith this concept called the
tactical triangle. And if youknow, we can either talk about
(05:13):
that, but if anyone's interestedin what that concept is chapter
six of that book goes into it.
It's just a very elegant andsimple way to visualize your
business. And so it added anextra component to the traffic
times conversion equals dollarsigns and said traffic
conversion and economics suchas, how are you pricing your
(05:34):
products to sell? Or do you havea bump offer? Do you have an
upsell? One of the other thingsthat you're offering, what are
you doing with the leads thatdon't convert, like, there are
all sorts of different ways youcan look at the economics side
of your business. But if youleave that out, you can have a
high converting funnel selling a$10 ebook, and you're probably
gonna have a very tough time,affording traffic to your to
(05:55):
your sales funnel to your salesprocess. So that really
completed the triangle inparadise fell in love with it.
And he correctly gives me creditfor it, and chapter six of his
book, but he's really reengineered all of his trainings
from his entry level content allthe way up to his high level
masterminds, and in personsessions around this concept of
(06:16):
the tactical triangle, becausehe believes I agree, but it's,
it's just a really super elegantway to look at your business and
understand, you know, ifsomething's missing, if you're,
if you're not quite sure, whereyou should focus on your
business next. Usually whatlike, if you need more traffic,
you don't focus on traffic, youfocus on the conversion of
economics, and then the trafficcomes from that. So that's,
(06:36):
that's kind of the conceptbehind it. So that's how I ended
up in that book.
Steve Brown (06:41):
I love that. So how did you stumble in all of this?
How did you so your companydeadline funnel calm? Hoo, hoo,
starts to create something likethis. There's probably an
excellent backstory there.
Jack Born (06:54):
Yeah, um, so I've, I've been, I've been running my
own business, my departure fromcorporate America. It was it was
a mutual mutual goodbye fromcorporate america happened in
2001. It was shortly after 911.
And I just came to therealization at the same time
that my last boss did that. Wejust wanted to get fit. And, you
(07:16):
know, one quick thing that Imentioned, sometimes I'm asked
like, Okay, how do you how doyou build a corporate culture,
especially in this environment,where everyone's working
remotely, etc. So my team was,was remote even before all of
this happened, the pandemic. Andso my North Star is actually I
call it the George Costanzamethod of leadership. There's an
(07:40):
episode on Seinfeld, I thinkit's actually two or three,
where George Costanza realizesthat, if he just does the
opposite of what comes like whathis natural thought is, like,
all of a sudden, he starts toget job offers, and he starts to
go on dates, because he's justall his life, like what his
natural instinct has beenleading him in the wrong
(08:00):
direction. So he starts doingthe opposite. Well, this is kind
of a variation of that, where Ijust think about all the crap
that I've put up with, in mylast job, and I'm like, okay,
and I told myself before I left,if when I have a company, it
wasn't if it was, when I have acompany of my own, these are the
five or six things that I willnever do to the people that I
bring onto my team. And sothat's just really been my North
(08:23):
Star, what would this companydo? And I'll do the opposite.
And so yeah, that was anyways, Ipromise, this will be a short
story. It's like a tangent. SoI'll wrap it
Steve Brown (08:34):
up. Let's stop there. What are the five things
now you've
Jack Born (08:38):
got to know what those are? Oh, man, I didn't I
didn't have these prepared. Buthere's an example. I'll tell a
quick story. So I was I remembervery, very clearly that we were
we were called in so I wasworking at a healthcare company.
And I was called in to all thehealthcare like, well, it was
basically phone sales. And soall of us on the team, there was
(09:02):
about 15 of us were called intothis conference room, the oval
conference room, and at thefront of it was our manager,
Randy and Randy was so excited.
He wanted to share theadvertising that that the
company come up with that wasgoing to go full page ads in the
in the industry rag magazine.
And so he showed us the two orthree variants or variations of
(09:25):
these of these ads. Andeveryone, everyone around the
table is going Oh, Randy, that'sthat's amazing. You know, I love
it. I love it. I love it. And Ihave been reading Dan Kennedy's
newsletter and Perry Marshall,his newsletter, like basically
direct response, one on one typeof stuff. And so he came to me
and he's like, jack, you're notsaying anything? What do you
think? And I'm like, and Iwasn't trying to be an angel. I
(09:47):
was just like, Well, I think youknow that the headline doesn't
really have a call to action. Ithink that you could have a you
know, some testimonials there. Ithink that you could have a
specific number so you know,which ad is pulling better. I
mean, thought these are reallygood suggestions. And Randy
looked at me like I had justdesiccated on the middle of the
of the oval table, you know,it's like, what do you like we
(10:10):
spent a bunch of money on this,aren't you aren't? Don't you
realize this is your opportunityto confirm what what I already
believed, like everyone elsedid. And I'm like, man like this
is I wonder if there's a placefor me where I can actually give
my opinion, that can be adissenting opinion. I can play
that I can play devil'sadvocate, and it actually be a
benefit. And the answer is Yeah,absolutely. And so I tell
(10:33):
people, when they're when theyfirst joined my team, I said,
Look, yes, I have veto power.
But I want to hear your ideas.
There's no period of time whereyou can't call bs or give a
dissenting opinion, like, I wantto hear your thoughts. We may
not necessarily go with youridea, but you have an equal seat
at the table, I want to hearyour ideas. I want to hear your
(10:54):
opinions, if you've got an ideaon something that we could add
to our platform, or if you thinkthat an idea that I've said,
just doesn't gel with yourvision of how the audience is
going to accept it. Tell me Thisis not about you telling me how
smart I am. I want to hear andyou know, tell me that, you
know, the emperor has noclothes, you know, I want to
hear it.
Steve Brown (11:15):
And that crazy that's like, a value add in, in
a great culture.
Jack Born (11:21):
Yeah, no. So, so yeah, that was Yeah, but that
was that was one of the onesthat was one of the biggies, you
know, you know, make sure thatthe people that that you develop
a culture where people arecomfortable telling you what
they believe, you know, anotherone another simple one is, you
know, reduce the risk for makingmistakes. Now, Jeff Bezos is,
(11:45):
you know, one of his concepts isthat you want to be running
experiments, small bets, bigbets. But you don't want to ever
find yourself at the you know,where you're rolling the dice,
because this last bet is thething that if it works out, the
company saved, if it fails,you're going down the golden
toilet. And so and so, you know,how do you develop a culture of
(12:08):
experimentation, you make surethat you remove the risk of
getting things wrong, you know,you know, calculated risks, but
you want to develop a culturewhere people don't feel like
okay, if I get this wrong, or ifI admit that I made a mistake,
that, you know, my job, youknow, my job is it is in danger.
(12:28):
And you know, the person next tome is going to slit my throat to
try to climb the corporateladder, that type of stuff. So
typical, typical stuff likethat. I'm just, you know, I've
just tried to remove from thatfrom that from the company
culture.
Steve Brown (12:39):
Yeah. So deadline funnel, comm automation, Sales
Automation, I noticed you don'tsay marketing, automation, but
that's not marketing funnels orsales funnels, I noticed. Why is
that?
Jack Born (12:57):
Yeah, I may need to revisit the copy, honestly,
because I do believe it is firstand foremost, marketing
marketing funnel. So perhaps Ineed to go back and review that
we're constantly changing the,like the copy and the design,
we're on like the fifth or sixthiteration of how the how the
website looks? So no, I would, Iwould say first and foremost,
(13:22):
like, there's a huge differencebetween sales and marketing. I
mean, they're close cousins.
But, you know, marketing isputting your message out into
the world. And, you know, myidea of sales is where you're
dealing with, ideally, prospectswho are warm, they're pre sold,
they're pre framed, and they'reready to do business with you. I
(13:43):
mean, you and I were talkingbefore you hit record, about the
huge difference between someonehaving read your book, and now
they're talking with you, versusyou just going up cold to
someone who might be a perfectprospect if they had just read
your book. But when they haven'tread your book, they don't have
that, you know, they haven'tgone through your marketing
material, they haven't read yourmessage, they haven't digested
(14:04):
it. It's a whole differentballgame. And I think old school
sales like I, my past isactually and, you know, face to
face, belly to belly financialservices sales, where you're
going to someone who probablydoesn't want to talk to you or
doesn't want to talk to youright now. And you're trying to
convince them and handleobjections. And that's, that's
like old school sales and salesisn't bad, like a better version
(14:27):
of sales is where you have apipeline full of leads, and
you're answering the final oneor two questions. And, you know,
just confirming Yep, that's theway that it is, you know, or
maybe some slight negotiationson the deal terms. And then you
close a deal. You know, but thatcomes from well done marketing,
which is your, which is yourmessage that you put out into
(14:47):
the marketplace to find out whois resonating with the message
and then helping them find apathway to your doorstep. And
then if there's some finalquestions, that's the short
sales conversation fine. Ifthere's a fit, and then move
forward, it should be as simpleas that.
Steve Brown (15:03):
Yeah, I was thinking that when I was reading
some of those salesacknowledgement in there, to me,
that's, that's enlightenedmarketing when actually
marketing and sales are likeworking together or on the same
page, again, which is like thiscrazy idea. That's this big
competitive advantage, likehaving an a culture where it's
(15:27):
safety first, where you workwith people that are working
together. How about marketingsales working together to
Jack Born (15:35):
I remember, so one of my, this takes me back a long
ways. I'll tell this quickly. Soin when I was fresh out of
college again, I was I was, Ididn't know what I wanted to do.
But I knew that plan A wasoriginally to be to follow my
dad's footsteps and be a doctor.
But I thought just what didn'twork out. So I wanted to be an
entrepreneur, I'd read some ZigZiglar books, I'm like, Okay,
how do I get like, how do Ibecome an entrepreneur? So
(15:55):
salesperson, so I end up in, ofall places, this is 20 years
ago, I ended up in the in thefinancial services world, and
back then it was, Okay, sitdown. And step one is make a
list of 100 people that that,you know, I didn't frankly, at
that time, I didn't know 100people anyways, it was like
(16:16):
hardcore, like start startsmiling and dialing. And at the
time, I there was an interestingmagazine, where a guy named Jeff
Paul had put out, you know,basically, a full page ad. That
just, I mean, he there's somenegative things I can say about
Jeff, but one of the positivethings about Jeff is that he
could write copy like nobody'sbusiness. I mean, this, this
(16:38):
really hooked me and, you know,you know, in my core, spoke to
my pain. And you know, I orderedthe free report, the free report
came, and it was all aboutdirect response marketing. I've
never heard of this, my mind wasjust exploding, like holy cow,
you know, I'm 21 or 20, orsomething like that. And I just
can't believe I'm like, Oh, myGod, I can actually talk to
people who are interested intalking to me, this is this is
(17:01):
incredible. And so one of theregional managers came down and
he was having sort of a come toJesus type of thing. It was
almost like, a scene out ofGlengarry Glen Ross, you know,
coffee's for closers. And, andso we were getting like that
type of that type of treatment.
And towards the end of themeeting, like, again, just me
being, you know, an idiot, butnot not understanding the
(17:22):
context I'm in. I'm like, hey,I've read this thing about, you
know, we could actually put outadvertising and we could talk to
people who want to talk to us,what do you think about that?
And he looked at me, like I had,like, he looked at me, like, I
had three heads, and he justpauses like this crazy old man.
And I'm not gonna say the wordthat he used, but you can
probably figure it out. It'slike, you need to stop being a p
word. Like, get out there. Getout, get out there and make some
(17:45):
sales. And man, I wanted toclean that guy's clock. But
yeah, that was, you know, thatwas that was my first it's, you
know, once once I heard thatthere's this thing, thing called
direct response marketing, andyou can generate leads and talk
to a warm prospect. It's a typeof thing. And once you hear it,
you can never unhear it, you cannever go back to the way it was
(18:06):
like, Oh, yeah, well, let's justsmile and dial and just grind it
out. Like you can't. And so thatthat was one of the things that
set me on my journey, and led meto Dan Kennedy, and then Perry
Marshall and then ended upleaving my job and you know,
building a website and that's,that's a whole story in and of
itself. But Dublin funnel camelater. The the genesis of Dublin
(18:27):
funnel was that I had been inthe marketing space direct
response marketing for, youknow, maybe a decade or so. And,
you know, being a student ofwhat works in direct response
marketing. I am being a bigbeliever in lead generation,
because now everyoneunderstands, oh, yeah, of
course, lead generation getleads, you know, like trust,
(18:47):
build your email list, likeeveryone gets that now, there
was a time Believe it or not,where that was a little bit
controversial. Like, I don'tknow, if I should really do that
sounds like a lot of work. Thead costs were really cheap, you
could get clicks from Google orother places at five to 10 to 15
cents, so why not just send themto the sales letter. So Perry,
Marshall was a big believer inthis long term idea of
(19:09):
cultivating your list, growingyour list, having your audience
having a bond with you, etc. andsort of like building your 1000
fans or 10,000 fans. And, and soI was a big believer in that
too. I wanted to combine what Ireally believe was one of the
most powerful and consistenttools of marketing and messaging
and motivating people to takeaction, which is scarcity,
(19:32):
urgency deadlines, but I didn'twant to do it in a way that was
lying. I didn't want to use somesort of fake timer on a page,
you know, hope that no one wentto the page next day, etc.
Because that's really what wasthat what existed back then. So
I thought, well, you know, we atthe time period was using
Infusionsoft which now is calledKeith But anyways,
(19:53):
I thought wouldn't it be cool ifwhen someone came in as a new
prospect if we can actually givethem a deadline automatic Just
like we're automatically sendingpeople this series of same nine
emails based on when they signup, what if we can assign a
deadline based on when theystarted so that, at the end when
we when the email said, Hey,this is the last day, it truly
was, in fact, the last day eventhough it was automated. And I
(20:16):
just figured, well, obviously,someone has figured this out. So
I'll just go find it, and thensign up for it. Turns out, no
one had done such a thing. Andso I decided to create what then
became Dublin funnel. And it wasa need that not only Perry
needed, but I needed in mybusiness. And so that's that was
the beginning of deadly funnel,because I then went through the
(20:37):
extra effort of trying to makeit available for other people to
use and find out that Yeah, alot of people needed this. So it
really is a very, very strongway to get people who are
already leaning into yourmessaging. And that's a key
component, people who arealready leaning into your
messaging, clicking your links,viewing your videos, go into
(20:58):
your web page, etc, who areprocrastinating for a variety of
reasons. One of the main onesbeing that just as human beings
like it or not, we procrastinateand getting them to make a
decision, and to make thatautomated, but to also make it
absolutely 100% genuine andthat's what that one funnel
does.
Steve Brown (21:15):
So, um, when you think of a deadline, but most
funnels are never ending, orthey they'll re engage after a
little bit. So you thinkAlright, so what what do you
deadline, the price their offerthat, you know, I'm curious to
what?
Jack Born (21:31):
Yeah, there's a, there's a lot of Yeah, there's,
there's a bunch of differentways to do it. But I'll, I'll
name two of them, two of the twoof them would be one would be
that you're the only there'sonly a short window of time
where you can actually get this.
So this, you know, this could besomething where you can't go to
the website and just sign up atany time. It's only when you're
at a certain point in this emailsequence. And so you know, what
(21:53):
kicks that off might be someoneopting in and might be someone
who's who's purchased somethingelse, there's a whole bunch of
different things that could kickoff someone going into that
sequence, you know, you can useyour own marketing automation,
but during that short window oftime, that's the only time that
they can actually get it. And,you know, it doesn't have to be
necessarily individualized foreach person, you could say,
(22:15):
look, at the beginning of thefirst of every month, everyone
who's gone through this emailsequence, everyone who's ordered
my book, you know, the goldentoilet, say, everyone who's read
that or read or opted in for afree chapter, at the first of
every month, we're gonna sendthat cohort, that group of
people through the sequence sothat, you know, that's not still
automation, there's a lot ofdifferent ways you can do it.
The second way would be, yeah,this is available any time but
(22:37):
while you're here, right now,maybe it's because you just
signed up for this this list,or, or this freebie or attended
this webinar, you are getting aspecial deal, it could be a So
what's a special deal, a specialoffer could be one or more of
the following, it could be aprice discount, doesn't have to
be, it could be extra bonuses.
(23:00):
It could even be how you buy. Sonormally it's it's I'm just
gonna make this up, it might benormally $1,000 per, you know,
one time. But right now you canget it for 100 bucks a month,
you know, so that you can spreadit out over, you know, an easier
payment. So there's a lot ofdifferent ways to tinker with
and structure your special offerin your marketing and say, Look,
(23:24):
if you miss this deadline, youcan still get it, it's just
right now it's an even betterdeal than you would normally
get. And so those are those area few simple ways. There's more,
those are a few simple ways thatpeople evergreen it and then
what you can do is it's notnecessarily a one and done.
Because sometimes no matter howpersuasive you are, no matter
(23:45):
how good your messaging is, andeven with a deadline, sometimes
it may be that your that youraudience member, it just isn't
ready to purchase at that time.
So it has to be the rightmessage the right market at the
right time. So what you could dois you could say in your
automation system, you could saylike everyone who didn't
purchase wait three months, youknow, send them other emails,
(24:06):
no, I can trust some other greatrelationship building stuff. And
then 90 days later, put themback into the sequence. And so
there's a lot of different waysyou can do it. I think of these
as you know, you can build yourcustomer journey as sort of a
series of Legos and you can sortof click them together. And lots
(24:26):
of different ways. You knowexactly how you click them
together might be different thanhow someone else clicks them
together. And really, you'reonly limited by your
imagination.
Steve Brown (24:38):
Excellent. So you're watching or you're
listening, great conversationwith jack Bourne. His company is
deadline. funnel.com. So jack, Iget asked these questions often
being in marketing and there'sthey seem like simple questions,
but they're important questions.
And so I know Jack's answers tothese right so Number one, what
(24:59):
is the marketing funnel? Yeah,so
Jack Born (25:04):
in my mind, a marketing funnel is a series of
messages that are designed totake someone from where they are
right now to where they want tobe this future version of
themselves, it could be, youknow, their business 2.0 their
love life 2.0, their fitness2.0, but some sort of future
version of where they want tobe. And then the process,
(25:26):
they're the bridge to get themthere is becoming your client.
And so it's a series ofintentionally crafted sequential
messages to reach them wherethey are. And to take them on
that journey, that messagingjourney much like, much like a
story has a natural arc, yourmarketing message should have a
natural arc, it starts wherethey are, and then it brings
(25:48):
them through a series of wellcrafted, you know, mind shifts
to, you know, bring them to aplace where they have a new
understanding of, of their oftheir problem or their situation
and the possibilities ofpossibilities being, you know,
your your solution and how youuniquely deliver it. And so
that's what I consider to be amarketing phone.
Steve Brown (26:07):
That's excellent.
And I love the 2.0 aspect. Yeah.
Alright, so what are the stagesof the marketing funnel?
Jack Born (26:18):
So I don't have a pithy answer of there's eight
stages, and here they are. But Iwould say that the, you know,
the stages extend further thanmost people think, a lot of
people when, when you say, youknow, what is your marketing
funnel, a lot of them wouldthink about where someone who
someone who isn't known to themisn't on their on their client
(26:38):
list, or on their prospect list,first encounters their opt in
form or their web page. So well,it starts with this opt in page,
then they watch these threevideos, and then they go on this
email sequence, and thenhopefully, they buy. In my mind,
there's a, there are stagesbefore that. So that would
include what is the initialmessage that gets their
(26:58):
attention. So it could be aFacebook ad, it could be a
YouTube video, it could be thispodcast, it could be your book,
you know, that is part of yourfunnel. So for example, taking
you know, looking at yours, Idon't know every stage your
funnel, but what I do know isthat the the golden toilet book
that you've written is part ofyour funnel, it doesn't start
(27:20):
when they read the book, andthen they click the you know,
follow the link, and then go toyour page, it's not that they've
arrived at their funnel 30 inyour funnel, that's part of your
your messaging. And if there isa Facebook ad before that, that
gets them curious about thisbook. That's where the funnel
starts. That's where the stagesbegin, where you are first
(27:41):
reaching out to out to theclient when they first hear
about you. And by the way, ifyou're if if getting referrals
from happy existing clients, issomething that's active in your
business as it is for us. That'spart of your funnel, you know,
you don't have control over whatsomeone is actually saying, you
can influence it. But whatsomeone is saying to that
(28:04):
stranger, really, that's that'sthe start of your funnel. It's
not when that stranger comes toyour website, it's when that
message happens. And just toprove that point, if you're
there, there are lots of thingsthat you could put into a
Facebook ad or YouTube ad, forexample, that will get someone
to your OPT in page and maybeeven get them to fill out the
(28:27):
you know, to get on your list.
But as you and I both know,there's a huge deal, depending
on what you are putting outthere as that first action that
first problem is that first sayfreebie or no, the first
delivery is really going toimpact whether they are a good
buyer or not. You know who it'sgoing to attract, and really
what their mindset is, becauseit's a continuation of that
(28:49):
conversation that started wayback when they heard the
referral from the friend, orthey saw the ad, or they saw the
video. And so, you know, justdoing what you can to build your
list for the sake of buildingyour list may turn out to bring
in people who are not going tobe really good matches for your
overall business. You know, soif you think about the funnel,
(29:13):
just in terms of you know, whyneed to optimize for in
increasing conversion rates onthe opt in form, let's say you
could, you know, but you're notreally tracking it all the way
through, and you're notrealizing that the whole entire
funnel from the beginningmessage all the way to the very
end is your funnel, you can gethyper focused on growing your
list, but you grow your listwith people who really aren't
(29:35):
going to be good buyers and goodclients for the long run.
Steve Brown (29:40):
That's a great perspective. And that's where
part of that triangle you weretalking about. You start pulling
the economics aspect of it.
Jack Born (29:50):
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that would Yeah, that would be
part of it. Also would be theyou know, be the conversions but
you know, part of part of whatyou would Want to take a look
at, you know, anyone who's runads. And, you know, you and I
were talking offline about thevalue of someone, the lifetime
value of someone who's read yourbook is way, way higher than the
(30:14):
lifetime value of someone whomaybe clicked on a Facebook ad
in general, on average. And soevery single traffic channel
that you have, is going to havetheir own sort of lifetime value
their own sort of economics, ifyou will, of, of that of that
funnel. So yeah, it really comesdown to understanding your
(30:35):
numbers and being able to, youknow, to measure, you know, just
because let's say, let's saythat you've calculated that the
lifetime value of someone who'sread your book and becomes a
client is $1,000. If you thenjust blindly took that number
over to Facebook and said, Hey,here's how much I can spend,
based on the assumption that thelifetime value of my client is
1000 bucks. You, you might be infor a rude awakening, because
(31:00):
you might find out that what youhave to say on Facebook, in
order to get them to opt in forsome freebie doesn't then lead
them to become that 1000. Itdoesn't attract the $1,000
buyers and same way that thebook does, you might still be
able to make Facebook work. Butit might not be that Facebook
leads are the same value as bookbuyers. Does that make sense?
Steve Brown (31:21):
Yes, absolutely.
All right, here's another one.
So it's related to what you weretalking about. So how to create
a high converting sales funnel?
I always get that asked that.
Jack Born (31:35):
What's Jack's out?
Yeah, my answer is that the mostimportant thing that you can do
is to really focus on messagingand, you know, understand the,
you know, what, what is theconversation that you're
starting and think of it as Isaid before, in the same way
that a story, if you're astudent of stories, the way that
you and I are, we understandthat there's a story arc a good
(31:55):
story has to go through certainstages, or else it's just not a
very satisfying story. In thesame way, you're, you're taking
your your audience through acertain arc. And so the
messaging there and how you sayit, and the words that you use,
is really, really important.
(32:17):
Just like Andre, I'm continuingto invest. I mean, just an hour
before this, I ended up buyingone of my my own clients,
copywriting courses, because Iwas, I heard her on, I didn't
even know she was a client ofmine. But I heard her on a
podcast called the copy chiefpodcast, and went and checked
out her stuff and ended upbuying, buying her course, like
(32:39):
I'm constantly reinvesting in myskills to try to find something
new or remind myself ofsomething that I've forgotten
regarding messaging, because Ireally don't feel like you can
ever get to the point where youThere's nothing to learn about
messaging. So yeah, I would saythe very most important thing
is, is your messaging, you know,coming back to like, I think
(33:01):
second behind that is having adeadline. But I'm the first to
say that. And I said this allthe time, you deadline isn't
going to revive a dead marketingfunnel. So if your messaging is
completely off, or if you've,you're the only one on planet
Earth, who is in love with thisproduct that you've created.
(33:21):
First of all, you're not alone,other people have been down that
road, I've committed thatsaying, so you know, pick
yourself up, you know, you willsucceed in the long run, as long
as you don't give up. But don'tthink that you can just add a
deadline to it, all of a suddenthings are gonna work, you know,
it's really important to dial inyour messaging, the deadline is
really to get everyone who'sresonating with the messaging,
but they're just procrastinatingor feeling overwhelmed, and they
(33:43):
need that extra little push toget off the fence and take that
leap. And make that finaljourney, you know, step across,
you know, the thin, the veryimportant membrane of lock
client to client. You know, adeadline is super effective at
doing that. But it's really theone two punch of really dialed
(34:03):
in messaging, and then having adeadline, which is really super,
super important.
Steve Brown (34:09):
Hey, I wanted to pause right here and tell you
about a book that you need toget today. It's the funniest
book on marketing. It's calledthe Golden toilet, stop flushing
your marketing budget into yourwebsite and build a system that
grows your business. And guesswho wrote it? That's right. I
wrote it. And I wrote it justfor you because I want to help
(34:31):
you get past the last hurdles ofsetting up your business and
getting it squared away. I wroteit so that you can avoid time
wasting time wasting money,wasting frustration, get the
book on Audible. You can get iton Kindle. You can get it on
Amazon, but get the book takeadvantage of the insights in
(34:52):
there. And let me know what youthink. And now back to this
excellent episode. That'sawesome. So we're listening to
jack Bourne. He's the hiscompany is deadline funnel com.
JACK. So I always like to askthis question. What's one
(35:14):
question you would love toanswer that nobody ever asked
you?
Jack Born (35:19):
Oh my gosh. stumper.
What is one question? Um, yeah.
So, one question that you that Idon't get asked very often has
to do with how did you? Like? Iguess the question, I'm trying
to think how the question wouldbe phrased it would be phrased
(35:39):
something along the lines ofwhat is what is one of the most
important one of the mostchallenging, but important
things you did in your business?
And to which I would answerFinally, understanding how to
build a team and how importantit was. Because, for me for the
longest time, so I, so I readthe, you know, a long time ago,
(36:02):
version, one of the four hourworkweek when it first came out,
read it loved it, thought,great, this whole idea of hiring
VA sounds amazing. Of course, Iwent to, you know, oDesk, or
wherever it was, like, you know,and hired very cheaply, like,
Hey, $4 an hour, sign me up,that sounds great. You can
(36:22):
probably predict what happened,it just didn't work out that
well. And so what I eventually,and so I thought, okay, I don't
know why it's working foreveryone else, but it's just not
working for me. And, and so Ireally struggle with it, I
really fell into this, thisbelief, false belief that, you
know, I was just gonna have togrind it out as a solo
(36:43):
entrepreneur, and maybe every sooften, I would hire out a task
or two. And a good friend ofmine, Brian guy who has had
built up a really huge andsuccessful paid advertising
agency named Mike Rhodes, reallygot my head straight on this,
and really helped me understandexactly how to change my
(37:04):
thinking about my business. So Istarted to bring it like one of
the key shifts for me was toreally understand that,
especially you don't, it's notnecessarily that because you
hire someone who costs a lotthat therefore they're going to
be good. But you typically getwhat you pay for. And you need
to be searching out a player'sand being willing to invest in
(37:26):
your business to have theseeight players on your team. And
so one of the one of the bigthings that happened for me was
when on my first trip toAustralia in 2016, or 2015 2015,
had to be 2015. It was a sixweek trip. And at the time, I
had someone who was a real gogetter. And still with my
(37:47):
company today, just an amazingguy. And at the time, I was
paying him hourly. And he said,Look, I, this is amazing, I love
working with you. But I just Ineed more revenue, I need more
income from this, I said, well,as it just so happens, I'm going
on the six week trip six monthsfrom now, and I am holding on to
too many tasks, I don't want tobe up at two or three in the
(38:09):
morning, dealing with thisstuff. And I also don't want my
business to suffer. So let'stalk about how I can let go of
some of these things and reallyset up an on ramp, where more
month by month by month, you'retaking on more of these
responsibilities, and I get morecomfortable working with you.
And then that way you get whatyou want, I get what I want and
see where it goes from there.
(38:30):
And I was really like takingforce, I know that we can't take
vacations now. But if we couldtake holidays, I would recommend
that everyone go, you owe it toyourself to go book a six week
holiday somewhere on theopposite end of the globe, where
it's just gonna be almostimpossible for you to work on
your business for six weeks. Andthat will be scary and it will
be frightening. But it willforce you to really let go of
(38:54):
the things that you need to letgo of. So that you can be a CEO
in your business and to attractthe people that you feel
comfortable, really, you know,handling your your your company,
at least for six weeks. Becauseonce you get over that initial
hump, you know, it's really thesky's the limit, you know, it's
just a matter of continually toinvest in, you know, additional
(39:14):
team members and building theculture that you want. But that
that was such a huge shift in mybusiness I can't even explain.
Steve Brown (39:24):
Sounds like you really have a passion for your
culture and developing a team.
And I think that something thatmany businesses struggle with
and the folks that listen tothis podcast, that's what
they're trying to do. They'retrying to put out the fires run
the business, but to try tobackfill and set up a support
team to grow that but we make somany mistakes along the way.
Jack Born (39:47):
Yeah, and I've certainly made mine and I'm
certainly not perfect. You know,and that and that again comes
back with being willing to bewrong, you know, are you willing
to take you know, take feedback,that is sometimes painful to
hear, but you need to hear. Andif you're not hearing it, how
are you going to improve? So Ithink it's really, really
(40:07):
important to be constantlyworking on yourself and letting
your team know that you'reconstant work on yourself, you
know, a quick tip that I canshare with everyone that is
really easy to implement. But Ithink a lot of entrepreneurs
overlook it, is really takingthe opportunity to share the the
client successes, not just with,you know, don't just put them on
(40:29):
your website, which I'm a hugebeliever in social proof, if you
go to Dublin funnel.com. Andlook at our case studies, I love
social proof, in forms of video,testimonials, etc. So I'm a huge
believer in it. But there'sanother place for this, which is
super, super important, which isto share it with your team. So
for example, I have a lot ofdevelopers who don't really
(40:51):
interact with our clients. Andso it's, I find that it's
really, really valuable to sharewith them when when we get
client feedback, which is quiteoften, and I love to share it on
in Slack, it's inside thecompany, and I will specifically
main people, if possible, whowent who participated in the
development of that, you know,the the people in the design
(41:12):
team, the people in thedevelopment team, and so I will
share with them, Look, we arechanging, you are changing
lives, this is the type of workthat you're doing that is really
having an impact on theseentrepreneurs, it's helping them
enjoy their lives more, spendingmore time with their family,
being able to grow theirbusiness. One recent case study,
you know, Lauren, she had a hada great funnel on Facebook, but
(41:34):
guess what the Facebook ad costskept going up and up and up,
Zuckerberg needed to buy anotheryacht or something. So you know,
the Facebook ad clicks keptgoing up. And, and she was able
to increase our conversions andbring that cost per client
acquisition way down usingDublin for like, that has a
real, you know, beyond just, youknow, hey, now I'm able to
afford those Facebook ads,again, you know, there's an
(41:56):
impact beyond that, so that Ican spend more time with my son
so that I can, you know, hireadditional people on my team and
have the business that I alwaysdream like, that's the impact.
And I love sharing those storieswith my team, because there are
certain members of my team wherethey're down sort of, like in
the engine room, they're doingthe work, and they don't
actually interact with theclients up on the top deck of
(42:19):
the of the cruise ship. And so Iwant to make sure that they
understand, like what you'redoing is having a huge impact
and sharing that with them. Sothat they see I think it's
really important that everyoneon the team understand that it's
not just about, you know,ticking the box getting the task
done. It's what impact that'shaving on the end user.
Steve Brown (42:36):
I love that that's a great reminder. So jack, we
didn't talk about this. But I'mcurious if folks that are
listening, they want to go signup for deadline funnel. Is their
affiliate link? Or is it ourday? What's the best way to go
about that?
Jack Born (42:53):
Well, we could we could create one for you with a
special deal for your audience.
So we'll just we'll just createone on the spot. What would you
like the URL to end with? We'llmake a deadline funnel comm for
it's actually let's do it onyour website. what's your
website?
Steve Brown (43:08):
So it's ROI?
online.com I had to remember mywebsite.
Jack Born (43:14):
For it listed. Let's make it forwards. Can we do
forward slash deadline funnel?
Let's do it. Okay, and that willthat will anyone who's listening
to this who's interested, wewill make it a longer trial so
that you have even even moretime. You know, one of the part
of the culture, I'll justmentioned real quick part of the
culture that I really make surethat my team hears over and over
(43:36):
again, to the point of of beingsick of hearing about it is that
I want my team to understand.
And I want everyone listening toknow that we know that no one
woke up this morning sayingGosh, I hope that there's yet
another tool that I can sign upfor monthly or annually. Yeah,
like I get it. Right, I get it.
And yet we've got 1000s and1000s of clients who love us and
(43:57):
talk about us and rave about us.
So why. And the reason isbecause we really think about
happy clients as part of our bigflywheel. Which by the way, a
huge book recommendation JimCollins. I think it's turning
the flywheel something theflywheel. It's a very, very
short book. Really, reallypowerful. And Jeff Bezos credits
(44:19):
credits this concept with someof Amazon's huge success. So
quick, quick slide there. Butyou know, so So we, we
understand that our job is tohelp clients go from the
business like the business orfunnel that they have to the one
that they want. And that's notjust lip service, the way that
that shows up in our businessthat your typical software
company does several things thatwe tried to do the opposite of.
(44:43):
And one of those is that anytimethat you mentioned some other
software company to the softwarecompany that you're asking for
help from they go, Oh, you know,you need to go talk to that and
like we can't help you withthat. Right. So one of the ways
this is not a sexy descriptionof my company, but one of the
one of the ways that I thinkabout it What we do is we're
sort of the Zapier of urgencyand deadlines. Like we connect
(45:04):
with all these different emailproviders and landing page
providers. And so when someonesays, you know, for some reason,
you know, XYZ is not working on,you know, Infusionsoft or
kajabi, or something like that,you know, we don't go, Oh, well,
you're gonna have to talk tothem. We help them through to
the extent that we can we helpthem through. And sometimes we
will point out little gotchas orlittle little tricks or
(45:26):
shortcuts, or workarounds thathelp them with this other person
software with this other companysoftware, because our job is to
help them reach get across thefinish line and succeed with
evergreening their business.
It's not to say, Well, hey,listen, our job is to teach you
about doubling funnel andanything outside of that we're
not we're not here for sothat's, that's one of the big
ways that we, that wedifferentiate ourselves. So the
(45:49):
reason why I brought that up isduring this longer trial that
you'll get through the ROI, ROI,online.com forward slash
doubling funnel is that youwill, you will be able to set up
a 15 minute screenshareonboarding call on totally free
before you've paid us one redPenny and our team will answer
whatever questions that youhave. Because we just want to
(46:10):
make sure that you know, ifyou've got something that's
holding you back, you know,again, we want to turn you into
a lifetime client of ours. Sowe're more than happy to do
that. So anyways, go check itout. If you're interested. We've
got lots and lots of clients,check out our case studies. If
you're like, what, what is thisthing that I've just heard of?
And who else uses it, go to ourcase studies page, and I think
(46:32):
you'll be blown away?
Steve Brown (46:35):
Yeah, so that's deadline funnel. com. JACK
Bourne, you've been an awesomeguest. I appreciate you so much.
How can folks reach out orconnect with you?
Jack Born (46:48):
Yeah, so you can go to well, Dublin funnel calm,
first of all, but the other theother way to connect with me
would be on my website, whichhasn't been updated in some
time, jack bourne.com. That'sjust JCK BRN. It's not spelled
like Jason Bourne or anythinglike, right. So I do think I
have some links to you know, mysocial media and stuff like
(47:10):
that. I do not post very often.
But when I do, it's probablygoing to be a video of me kite
surfing. So you know, it's notgonna, it's not gonna be, you
know, your typical Instagramstuff. But if you're, if you
want to follow me, the links arethere. So that's it.
Steve Brown (47:28):
Alright. I love the name, jack. Boy. I mean, who
gets to walk around with thatkind of name? Right?
Unknown (47:34):
Yeah.
Steve Brown (47:37):
You've been a great guest on the ROI online podcast.
Jack Born (47:41):
Thank you so much for having me.
Steve Brown (47:43):
All right. And that's a wrap. Thanks for
listening to another fun episodeof the ROI online podcast. For
more, be sure to check out theshow notes of this episode. And
feel free to connect with me onLinkedIn where we can chat, and
I can help direct you to theresources you're searching for.
To learn more about how you cangrow your business better. Be
(48:05):
sure to pick up your copy of mybook, that golden toilet at
surprise, that golden toilet.comI'm Steve Brown, and we'll see
you next week on another funepisode of the ROI online
podcast.
Yeah, I would say the very most important thing is, is
your messaging talking behindthat is having a deadline. But
I'm the first to say that adeadline isn't going to revive a
dead marketing funnel. So ifyour messaging is completely
off, or if you've, you're theonly one on planet earth who is
in love with this product thatyou've created. First of all,
(00:24):
you're not alone. Other peoplehave been down that road, I've
committed that saying, so youknow, pick yourself up, you
know, you will succeed in thelong run, as long as you don't
give up. But don't think thatyou can just add a deadline to
it. All of a sudden, things aregonna work, you know, it's
really important to dial in yourmessaging.
Steve Brown (00:40):
Hi, everybody.
Welcome to the ROI onlinepodcast where we believe you,
the courageous entrepreneurs ofour day, are the invisible
heroes of our economy. You notonly improve our world with your
ideas, your grit and yourpassion, but you make our world
better. I'm Steve Brown. Andthis is a place where we have
great conversations with winnersjust like you while we laugh and
(01:03):
learn together.
JACK Bourne, welcome to the ROIonline podcast.
Jack Born (01:16):
Yeah, it's great to be here.
Steve Brown (01:18):
So jack, I'm excited. Your company is
deadline phone calm.
Unknown (01:24):
you've,
Steve Brown (01:25):
you've been quoted in some books that I've read.
Michael Higgs book, storytellingmade easy. I love that book is a
great guy. I haven't beenquoted, and in a book, how did
you pull that off?
Jack Born (01:43):
I didn't know that was gonna happen, really. And so
I met Michael Hague through amutual friend, Andre chaperone,
I don't know if does that namering a bell to you know, you've
you've got to, you've got to geton Andres list. So Andre is a
good friend of mine, and anabsolute genius at email
copywriting. And so I've knownhim for several years, and he
(02:08):
has a story coach, I didn't evenknow I know that you're in the
stories. I didn't even know thata story coach was a thing. But
he was, you know, I should haveknown better. There's a coach
for anything and everythingunder the sun. And so, you know,
Andre, considers himself astoryteller first, who happens
to use the medium of emails toas his canvas. And that's one of
(02:32):
the reasons By the way, quicktip why he's so good at it is
that he really tell stories. Soto continue, like any
professional who treats theirbusiness like a pro, he is
constantly looking to improveand investing in himself and
never considers that he's at thetop of his game, even if
everyone else thinks that he'sat the top of his game. So he
had a story coach, and his storycoach is a guy named Michael
(02:54):
Hague and Michael Haig is, asyou know, a consultant to
Hollywood, they will bring theirscripts to get improved or to
get feedback. It seems likesometimes they take his
feedback, sometimes they don't.
But Michael, you know, Michaelhas been quoted by one of one of
his best testimonials is fromWill Smith v. Will Smith. So,
you know, Michael Hague is thereal deal. So he knows how to
(03:19):
tell stories. I learned a lotfrom him. And so I had the
opportunity to be on a on a on aco sponsored training with
Michael Hague, where he wentthrough one of my emails and
gave me advice in a hot seat.
And that became the recordingsof a of a product that Andre put
together. And I also it's, it'slike we shared ownership of
(03:39):
that. And so that started myrelationship with Michael Hague.
And I kept in touch with them.
And somehow he was kind enoughto put me in his book. So yeah,
that was, that's really how thathappened. It wasn't a grand
plan. It was just a greatcoincidence for me.
Steve Brown (03:54):
Yeah. So when you're quoted in another book,
The 8020 sales and marketing. Soit means that's kind of saying
you got some games. So how, howdid that come to pass?
Jack Born (04:08):
Yeah, so I'll try to keep the story short, but that
one, that one, although myintention wasn't to get into
Perry's book, The author isPerry Marshall. For anyone who
doesn't know about Perry, Iwould recommend buying that book
at 20 sales, a marketing it'sapplicable to anyone in
business, any entrepreneur,whether you're consider yourself
(04:29):
online or offline. And I wasPerry Marshall's marketing
manager for about six years andabout a year and a half into
working with him. I was reallypuzzling on something that just
never felt right to me, which isthis concept of traffic times
conversion equals dollar signs.
And I just felt like you know,there's so it feels like there's
(04:50):
something missing out of thispuzzle and i and i was thinking
on it and my brain just wouldn'tlet it go. And I couldn't come
up with what was missing in Soone day I went on a run, and it
was in that period of notthinking about anything and
going through the runner's highthat the the Epiphany came to
me. And that's when I came upwith this concept called the
tactical triangle. And if youknow, we can either talk about
(05:13):
that, but if anyone's interestedin what that concept is chapter
six of that book goes into it.
It's just a very elegant andsimple way to visualize your
business. And so it added anextra component to the traffic
times conversion equals dollarsigns and said traffic
conversion and economics suchas, how are you pricing your
(05:34):
products to sell? Or do you havea bump offer? Do you have an
upsell? One of the other thingsthat you're offering, what are
you doing with the leads thatdon't convert, like, there are
all sorts of different ways youcan look at the economics side
of your business. But if youleave that out, you can have a
high converting funnel selling a$10 ebook, and you're probably
gonna have a very tough time,affording traffic to your to
(05:55):
your sales funnel to your salesprocess. So that really
completed the triangle inparadise fell in love with it.
And he correctly gives me creditfor it, and chapter six of his
book, but he's really reengineered all of his trainings
from his entry level content allthe way up to his high level
masterminds, and in personsessions around this concept of
(06:16):
the tactical triangle, becausehe believes I agree, but it's,
it's just a really super elegantway to look at your business and
understand, you know, ifsomething's missing, if you're,
if you're not quite sure, whereyou should focus on your
business next. Usually whatlike, if you need more traffic,
you don't focus on traffic, youfocus on the conversion of
economics, and then the trafficcomes from that. So that's,
(06:36):
that's kind of the conceptbehind it. So that's how I ended
up in that book.
Steve Brown (06:41):
I love that. So how did you stumble in all of this?
How did you so your companydeadline funnel calm? Hoo, hoo,
starts to create something likethis. There's probably an
excellent backstory there.
Jack Born (06:54):
Yeah, um, so I've, I've been, I've been running my
own business, my departure fromcorporate America. It was it was
a mutual mutual goodbye fromcorporate america happened in
2001. It was shortly after 911.
And I just came to therealization at the same time
that my last boss did that. Wejust wanted to get fit. And, you
(07:16):
know, one quick thing that Imentioned, sometimes I'm asked
like, Okay, how do you how doyou build a corporate culture,
especially in this environment,where everyone's working
remotely, etc. So my team was,was remote even before all of
this happened, the pandemic. Andso my North Star is actually I
call it the George Costanzamethod of leadership. There's an
(07:40):
episode on Seinfeld, I thinkit's actually two or three,
where George Costanza realizesthat, if he just does the
opposite of what comes like whathis natural thought is, like,
all of a sudden, he starts toget job offers, and he starts to
go on dates, because he's justall his life, like what his
natural instinct has beenleading him in the wrong
(08:00):
direction. So he starts doingthe opposite. Well, this is kind
of a variation of that, where Ijust think about all the crap
that I've put up with, in mylast job, and I'm like, okay,
and I told myself before I left,if when I have a company, it
wasn't if it was, when I have acompany of my own, these are the
five or six things that I willnever do to the people that I
bring onto my team. And sothat's just really been my North
(08:23):
Star, what would this companydo? And I'll do the opposite.
And so yeah, that was anyways, Ipromise, this will be a short
story. It's like a tangent. SoI'll wrap it
Steve Brown (08:34):
up. Let's stop there. What are the five things
now you've
Jack Born (08:38):
got to know what those are? Oh, man, I didn't I
didn't have these prepared. Buthere's an example. I'll tell a
quick story. So I was I remembervery, very clearly that we were
we were called in so I wasworking at a healthcare company.
And I was called in to all thehealthcare like, well, it was
basically phone sales. And soall of us on the team, there was
(09:02):
about 15 of us were called intothis conference room, the oval
conference room, and at thefront of it was our manager,
Randy and Randy was so excited.
He wanted to share theadvertising that that the
company come up with that wasgoing to go full page ads in the
in the industry rag magazine.
And so he showed us the two orthree variants or variations of
(09:25):
these of these ads. Andeveryone, everyone around the
table is going Oh, Randy, that'sthat's amazing. You know, I love
it. I love it. I love it. And Ihave been reading Dan Kennedy's
newsletter and Perry Marshall,his newsletter, like basically
direct response, one on one typeof stuff. And so he came to me
and he's like, jack, you're notsaying anything? What do you
think? And I'm like, and Iwasn't trying to be an angel. I
(09:47):
was just like, Well, I think youknow that the headline doesn't
really have a call to action. Ithink that you could have a you
know, some testimonials there. Ithink that you could have a
specific number so you know,which ad is pulling better. I
mean, thought these are reallygood suggestions. And Randy
looked at me like I had justdesiccated on the middle of the
of the oval table, you know,it's like, what do you like we
(10:10):
spent a bunch of money on this,aren't you aren't? Don't you
realize this is your opportunityto confirm what what I already
believed, like everyone elsedid. And I'm like, man like this
is I wonder if there's a placefor me where I can actually give
my opinion, that can be adissenting opinion. I can play
that I can play devil'sadvocate, and it actually be a
benefit. And the answer is Yeah,absolutely. And so I tell
(10:33):
people, when they're when theyfirst joined my team, I said,
Look, yes, I have veto power.
But I want to hear your ideas.
There's no period of time whereyou can't call bs or give a
dissenting opinion, like, I wantto hear your thoughts. We may
not necessarily go with youridea, but you have an equal seat
at the table, I want to hearyour ideas. I want to hear your
(10:54):
opinions, if you've got an ideaon something that we could add
to our platform, or if you thinkthat an idea that I've said,
just doesn't gel with yourvision of how the audience is
going to accept it. Tell me Thisis not about you telling me how
smart I am. I want to hear andyou know, tell me that, you
know, the emperor has noclothes, you know, I want to
hear it.
Steve Brown (11:15):
And that crazy that's like, a value add in, in
a great culture.
Jack Born (11:21):
Yeah, no. So, so yeah, that was Yeah, but that
was that was one of the onesthat was one of the biggies, you
know, you know, make sure thatthe people that that you develop
a culture where people arecomfortable telling you what
they believe, you know, anotherone another simple one is, you
know, reduce the risk for makingmistakes. Now, Jeff Bezos is,
(11:45):
you know, one of his concepts isthat you want to be running
experiments, small bets, bigbets. But you don't want to ever
find yourself at the you know,where you're rolling the dice,
because this last bet is thething that if it works out, the
company saved, if it fails,you're going down the golden
toilet. And so and so, you know,how do you develop a culture of
(12:08):
experimentation, you make surethat you remove the risk of
getting things wrong, you know,you know, calculated risks, but
you want to develop a culturewhere people don't feel like
okay, if I get this wrong, or ifI admit that I made a mistake,
that, you know, my job, youknow, my job is it is in danger.
(12:28):
And you know, the person next tome is going to slit my throat to
try to climb the corporateladder, that type of stuff. So
typical, typical stuff likethat. I'm just, you know, I've
just tried to remove from thatfrom that from the company
culture.
Steve Brown (12:39):
Yeah. So deadline funnel, comm automation, Sales
Automation, I noticed you don'tsay marketing, automation, but
that's not marketing funnels orsales funnels, I noticed. Why is
that?
Jack Born (12:57):
Yeah, I may need to revisit the copy, honestly,
because I do believe it is firstand foremost, marketing
marketing funnel. So perhaps Ineed to go back and review that
we're constantly changing the,like the copy and the design,
we're on like the fifth or sixthiteration of how the how the
website looks? So no, I would, Iwould say first and foremost,
(13:22):
like, there's a huge differencebetween sales and marketing. I
mean, they're close cousins.
But, you know, marketing isputting your message out into
the world. And, you know, myidea of sales is where you're
dealing with, ideally, prospectswho are warm, they're pre sold,
they're pre framed, and they'reready to do business with you. I
(13:43):
mean, you and I were talkingbefore you hit record, about the
huge difference between someonehaving read your book, and now
they're talking with you, versusyou just going up cold to
someone who might be a perfectprospect if they had just read
your book. But when they haven'tread your book, they don't have
that, you know, they haven'tgone through your marketing
material, they haven't read yourmessage, they haven't digested
(14:04):
it. It's a whole differentballgame. And I think old school
sales like I, my past isactually and, you know, face to
face, belly to belly financialservices sales, where you're
going to someone who probablydoesn't want to talk to you or
doesn't want to talk to youright now. And you're trying to
convince them and handleobjections. And that's, that's
like old school sales and salesisn't bad, like a better version
(14:27):
of sales is where you have apipeline full of leads, and
you're answering the final oneor two questions. And, you know,
just confirming Yep, that's theway that it is, you know, or
maybe some slight negotiationson the deal terms. And then you
close a deal. You know, but thatcomes from well done marketing,
which is your, which is yourmessage that you put out into
(14:47):
the marketplace to find out whois resonating with the message
and then helping them find apathway to your doorstep. And
then if there's some finalquestions, that's the short
sales conversation fine. Ifthere's a fit, and then move
forward, it should be as simpleas that.
Steve Brown (15:03):
Yeah, I was thinking that when I was reading
some of those salesacknowledgement in there, to me,
that's, that's enlightenedmarketing when actually
marketing and sales are likeworking together or on the same
page, again, which is like thiscrazy idea. That's this big
competitive advantage, likehaving an a culture where it's
(15:27):
safety first, where you workwith people that are working
together. How about marketingsales working together to
Jack Born (15:35):
I remember, so one of my, this takes me back a long
ways. I'll tell this quickly. Soin when I was fresh out of
college again, I was I was, Ididn't know what I wanted to do.
But I knew that plan A wasoriginally to be to follow my
dad's footsteps and be a doctor.
But I thought just what didn'twork out. So I wanted to be an
entrepreneur, I'd read some ZigZiglar books, I'm like, Okay,
how do I get like, how do Ibecome an entrepreneur? So
(15:55):
salesperson, so I end up in, ofall places, this is 20 years
ago, I ended up in the in thefinancial services world, and
back then it was, Okay, sitdown. And step one is make a
list of 100 people that that,you know, I didn't frankly, at
that time, I didn't know 100people anyways, it was like
(16:16):
hardcore, like start startsmiling and dialing. And at the
time, I there was an interestingmagazine, where a guy named Jeff
Paul had put out, you know,basically, a full page ad. That
just, I mean, he there's somenegative things I can say about
Jeff, but one of the positivethings about Jeff is that he
could write copy like nobody'sbusiness. I mean, this, this
(16:38):
really hooked me and, you know,you know, in my core, spoke to
my pain. And you know, I orderedthe free report, the free report
came, and it was all aboutdirect response marketing. I've
never heard of this, my mind wasjust exploding, like holy cow,
you know, I'm 21 or 20, orsomething like that. And I just
can't believe I'm like, Oh, myGod, I can actually talk to
people who are interested intalking to me, this is this is
(17:01):
incredible. And so one of theregional managers came down and
he was having sort of a come toJesus type of thing. It was
almost like, a scene out ofGlengarry Glen Ross, you know,
coffee's for closers. And, andso we were getting like that
type of that type of treatment.
And towards the end of themeeting, like, again, just me
being, you know, an idiot, butnot not understanding the
(17:22):
context I'm in. I'm like, hey,I've read this thing about, you
know, we could actually put outadvertising and we could talk to
people who want to talk to us,what do you think about that?
And he looked at me, like I had,like, he looked at me, like, I
had three heads, and he justpauses like this crazy old man.
And I'm not gonna say the wordthat he used, but you can
probably figure it out. It'slike, you need to stop being a p
word. Like, get out there. Getout, get out there and make some
(17:45):
sales. And man, I wanted toclean that guy's clock. But
yeah, that was, you know, thatwas that was my first it's, you
know, once once I heard thatthere's this thing, thing called
direct response marketing, andyou can generate leads and talk
to a warm prospect. It's a typeof thing. And once you hear it,
you can never unhear it, you cannever go back to the way it was
(18:06):
like, Oh, yeah, well, let's justsmile and dial and just grind it
out. Like you can't. And so thatthat was one of the things that
set me on my journey, and led meto Dan Kennedy, and then Perry
Marshall and then ended upleaving my job and you know,
building a website and that's,that's a whole story in and of
itself. But Dublin funnel camelater. The the genesis of Dublin
(18:27):
funnel was that I had been inthe marketing space direct
response marketing for, youknow, maybe a decade or so. And,
you know, being a student ofwhat works in direct response
marketing. I am being a bigbeliever in lead generation,
because now everyoneunderstands, oh, yeah, of
course, lead generation getleads, you know, like trust,
(18:47):
build your email list, likeeveryone gets that now, there
was a time Believe it or not,where that was a little bit
controversial. Like, I don'tknow, if I should really do that
sounds like a lot of work. Thead costs were really cheap, you
could get clicks from Google orother places at five to 10 to 15
cents, so why not just send themto the sales letter. So Perry,
Marshall was a big believer inthis long term idea of
(19:09):
cultivating your list, growingyour list, having your audience
having a bond with you, etc. andsort of like building your 1000
fans or 10,000 fans. And, and soI was a big believer in that
too. I wanted to combine what Ireally believe was one of the
most powerful and consistenttools of marketing and messaging
and motivating people to takeaction, which is scarcity,
(19:32):
urgency deadlines, but I didn'twant to do it in a way that was
lying. I didn't want to use somesort of fake timer on a page,
you know, hope that no one wentto the page next day, etc.
Because that's really what wasthat what existed back then. So
I thought, well, you know, we atthe time period was using
Infusionsoft which now is calledKeith But anyways,
(19:53):
I thought wouldn't it be cool ifwhen someone came in as a new
prospect if we can actually givethem a deadline automatic Just
like we're automatically sendingpeople this series of same nine
emails based on when they signup, what if we can assign a
deadline based on when theystarted so that, at the end when
we when the email said, Hey,this is the last day, it truly
was, in fact, the last day eventhough it was automated. And I
(20:16):
just figured, well, obviously,someone has figured this out. So
I'll just go find it, and thensign up for it. Turns out, no
one had done such a thing. Andso I decided to create what then
became Dublin funnel. And it wasa need that not only Perry
needed, but I needed in mybusiness. And so that's that was
the beginning of deadly funnel,because I then went through the
(20:37):
extra effort of trying to makeit available for other people to
use and find out that Yeah, alot of people needed this. So it
really is a very, very strongway to get people who are
already leaning into yourmessaging. And that's a key
component, people who arealready leaning into your
messaging, clicking your links,viewing your videos, go into
(20:58):
your web page, etc, who areprocrastinating for a variety of
reasons. One of the main onesbeing that just as human beings
like it or not, we procrastinateand getting them to make a
decision, and to make thatautomated, but to also make it
absolutely 100% genuine andthat's what that one funnel
does.
Steve Brown (21:15):
So, um, when you think of a deadline, but most
funnels are never ending, orthey they'll re engage after a
little bit. So you thinkAlright, so what what do you
deadline, the price their offerthat, you know, I'm curious to
what?
Jack Born (21:31):
Yeah, there's a, there's a lot of Yeah, there's,
there's a bunch of differentways to do it. But I'll, I'll
name two of them, two of the twoof them would be one would be
that you're the only there'sonly a short window of time
where you can actually get this.
So this, you know, this could besomething where you can't go to
the website and just sign up atany time. It's only when you're
at a certain point in this emailsequence. And so you know, what
(21:53):
kicks that off might be someoneopting in and might be someone
who's who's purchased somethingelse, there's a whole bunch of
different things that could kickoff someone going into that
sequence, you know, you can useyour own marketing automation,
but during that short window oftime, that's the only time that
they can actually get it. And,you know, it doesn't have to be
necessarily individualized foreach person, you could say,
(22:15):
look, at the beginning of thefirst of every month, everyone
who's gone through this emailsequence, everyone who's ordered
my book, you know, the goldentoilet, say, everyone who's read
that or read or opted in for afree chapter, at the first of
every month, we're gonna sendthat cohort, that group of
people through the sequence sothat, you know, that's not still
automation, there's a lot ofdifferent ways you can do it.
The second way would be, yeah,this is available any time but
(22:37):
while you're here, right now,maybe it's because you just
signed up for this this list,or, or this freebie or attended
this webinar, you are getting aspecial deal, it could be a So
what's a special deal, a specialoffer could be one or more of
the following, it could be aprice discount, doesn't have to
be, it could be extra bonuses.
(23:00):
It could even be how you buy. Sonormally it's it's I'm just
gonna make this up, it might benormally $1,000 per, you know,
one time. But right now you canget it for 100 bucks a month,
you know, so that you can spreadit out over, you know, an easier
payment. So there's a lot ofdifferent ways to tinker with
and structure your special offerin your marketing and say, Look,
(23:24):
if you miss this deadline, youcan still get it, it's just
right now it's an even betterdeal than you would normally
get. And so those are those area few simple ways. There's more,
those are a few simple ways thatpeople evergreen it and then
what you can do is it's notnecessarily a one and done.
Because sometimes no matter howpersuasive you are, no matter
(23:45):
how good your messaging is, andeven with a deadline, sometimes
it may be that your that youraudience member, it just isn't
ready to purchase at that time.
So it has to be the rightmessage the right market at the
right time. So what you could dois you could say in your
automation system, you could saylike everyone who didn't
purchase wait three months, youknow, send them other emails,
(24:06):
no, I can trust some other greatrelationship building stuff. And
then 90 days later, put themback into the sequence. And so
there's a lot of different waysyou can do it. I think of these
as you know, you can build yourcustomer journey as sort of a
series of Legos and you can sortof click them together. And lots
(24:26):
of different ways. You knowexactly how you click them
together might be different thanhow someone else clicks them
together. And really, you'reonly limited by your
imagination.
Steve Brown (24:38):
Excellent. So you're watching or you're
listening, great conversationwith jack Bourne. His company is
deadline. funnel.com. So jack, Iget asked these questions often
being in marketing and there'sthey seem like simple questions,
but they're important questions.
And so I know Jack's answers tothese right so Number one, what
(24:59):
is the marketing funnel? Yeah,so
Jack Born (25:04):
in my mind, a marketing funnel is a series of
messages that are designed totake someone from where they are
right now to where they want tobe this future version of
themselves, it could be, youknow, their business 2.0 their
love life 2.0, their fitness2.0, but some sort of future
version of where they want tobe. And then the process,
(25:26):
they're the bridge to get themthere is becoming your client.
And so it's a series ofintentionally crafted sequential
messages to reach them wherethey are. And to take them on
that journey, that messagingjourney much like, much like a
story has a natural arc, yourmarketing message should have a
natural arc, it starts wherethey are, and then it brings
(25:48):
them through a series of wellcrafted, you know, mind shifts
to, you know, bring them to aplace where they have a new
understanding of, of their oftheir problem or their situation
and the possibilities ofpossibilities being, you know,
your your solution and how youuniquely deliver it. And so
that's what I consider to be amarketing phone.
Steve Brown (26:07):
That's excellent.
And I love the 2.0 aspect. Yeah.
Alright, so what are the stagesof the marketing funnel?
Jack Born (26:18):
So I don't have a pithy answer of there's eight
stages, and here they are. But Iwould say that the, you know,
the stages extend further thanmost people think, a lot of
people when, when you say, youknow, what is your marketing
funnel, a lot of them wouldthink about where someone who
someone who isn't known to themisn't on their on their client
(26:38):
list, or on their prospect list,first encounters their opt in
form or their web page. So well,it starts with this opt in page,
then they watch these threevideos, and then they go on this
email sequence, and thenhopefully, they buy. In my mind,
there's a, there are stagesbefore that. So that would
include what is the initialmessage that gets their
(26:58):
attention. So it could be aFacebook ad, it could be a
YouTube video, it could be thispodcast, it could be your book,
you know, that is part of yourfunnel. So for example, taking
you know, looking at yours, Idon't know every stage your
funnel, but what I do know isthat the the golden toilet book
that you've written is part ofyour funnel, it doesn't start
(27:20):
when they read the book, andthen they click the you know,
follow the link, and then go toyour page, it's not that they've
arrived at their funnel 30 inyour funnel, that's part of your
your messaging. And if there isa Facebook ad before that, that
gets them curious about thisbook. That's where the funnel
starts. That's where the stagesbegin, where you are first
(27:41):
reaching out to out to theclient when they first hear
about you. And by the way, ifyou're if if getting referrals
from happy existing clients, issomething that's active in your
business as it is for us. That'spart of your funnel, you know,
you don't have control over whatsomeone is actually saying, you
can influence it. But whatsomeone is saying to that
(28:04):
stranger, really, that's that'sthe start of your funnel. It's
not when that stranger comes toyour website, it's when that
message happens. And just toprove that point, if you're
there, there are lots of thingsthat you could put into a
Facebook ad or YouTube ad, forexample, that will get someone
to your OPT in page and maybeeven get them to fill out the
(28:27):
you know, to get on your list.
But as you and I both know,there's a huge deal, depending
on what you are putting outthere as that first action that
first problem is that first sayfreebie or no, the first
delivery is really going toimpact whether they are a good
buyer or not. You know who it'sgoing to attract, and really
what their mindset is, becauseit's a continuation of that
(28:49):
conversation that started wayback when they heard the
referral from the friend, orthey saw the ad, or they saw the
video. And so, you know, justdoing what you can to build your
list for the sake of buildingyour list may turn out to bring
in people who are not going tobe really good matches for your
overall business. You know, soif you think about the funnel,
(29:13):
just in terms of you know, whyneed to optimize for in
increasing conversion rates onthe opt in form, let's say you
could, you know, but you're notreally tracking it all the way
through, and you're notrealizing that the whole entire
funnel from the beginningmessage all the way to the very
end is your funnel, you can gethyper focused on growing your
list, but you grow your listwith people who really aren't
(29:35):
going to be good buyers and goodclients for the long run.
Steve Brown (29:40):
That's a great perspective. And that's where
part of that triangle you weretalking about. You start pulling
the economics aspect of it.
Jack Born (29:50):
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that would Yeah, that would be
part of it. Also would be theyou know, be the conversions but
you know, part of part of whatyou would Want to take a look
at, you know, anyone who's runads. And, you know, you and I
were talking offline about thevalue of someone, the lifetime
value of someone who's read yourbook is way, way higher than the
(30:14):
lifetime value of someone whomaybe clicked on a Facebook ad
in general, on average. And soevery single traffic channel
that you have, is going to havetheir own sort of lifetime value
their own sort of economics, ifyou will, of, of that of that
funnel. So yeah, it really comesdown to understanding your
(30:35):
numbers and being able to, youknow, to measure, you know, just
because let's say, let's saythat you've calculated that the
lifetime value of someone who'sread your book and becomes a
client is $1,000. If you thenjust blindly took that number
over to Facebook and said, Hey,here's how much I can spend,
based on the assumption that thelifetime value of my client is
1000 bucks. You, you might be infor a rude awakening, because
(31:00):
you might find out that what youhave to say on Facebook, in
order to get them to opt in forsome freebie doesn't then lead
them to become that 1000. Itdoesn't attract the $1,000
buyers and same way that thebook does, you might still be
able to make Facebook work. Butit might not be that Facebook
leads are the same value as bookbuyers. Does that make sense?
Steve Brown (31:21):
Yes, absolutely.
All right, here's another one.
So it's related to what you weretalking about. So how to create
a high converting sales funnel?
I always get that asked that.
Jack Born (31:35):
What's Jack's out?
Yeah, my answer is that the mostimportant thing that you can do
is to really focus on messagingand, you know, understand the,
you know, what, what is theconversation that you're
starting and think of it as Isaid before, in the same way
that a story, if you're astudent of stories, the way that
you and I are, we understandthat there's a story arc a good
(31:55):
story has to go through certainstages, or else it's just not a
very satisfying story. In thesame way, you're, you're taking
your your audience through acertain arc. And so the
messaging there and how you sayit, and the words that you use,
is really, really important.
(32:17):
Just like Andre, I'm continuingto invest. I mean, just an hour
before this, I ended up buyingone of my my own clients,
copywriting courses, because Iwas, I heard her on, I didn't
even know she was a client ofmine. But I heard her on a
podcast called the copy chiefpodcast, and went and checked
out her stuff and ended upbuying, buying her course, like
(32:39):
I'm constantly reinvesting in myskills to try to find something
new or remind myself ofsomething that I've forgotten
regarding messaging, because Ireally don't feel like you can
ever get to the point where youThere's nothing to learn about
messaging. So yeah, I would saythe very most important thing
is, is your messaging, you know,coming back to like, I think
(33:01):
second behind that is having adeadline. But I'm the first to
say that. And I said this allthe time, you deadline isn't
going to revive a dead marketingfunnel. So if your messaging is
completely off, or if you've,you're the only one on planet
Earth, who is in love with thisproduct that you've created.
(33:21):
First of all, you're not alone,other people have been down that
road, I've committed thatsaying, so you know, pick
yourself up, you know, you willsucceed in the long run, as long
as you don't give up. But don'tthink that you can just add a
deadline to it, all of a suddenthings are gonna work, you know,
it's really important to dial inyour messaging, the deadline is
really to get everyone who'sresonating with the messaging,
but they're just procrastinatingor feeling overwhelmed, and they
(33:43):
need that extra little push toget off the fence and take that
leap. And make that finaljourney, you know, step across,
you know, the thin, the veryimportant membrane of lock
client to client. You know, adeadline is super effective at
doing that. But it's really theone two punch of really dialed
(34:03):
in messaging, and then having adeadline, which is really super,
super important.
Steve Brown (34:09):
Hey, I wanted to pause right here and tell you
about a book that you need toget today. It's the funniest
book on marketing. It's calledthe Golden toilet, stop flushing
your marketing budget into yourwebsite and build a system that
grows your business. And guesswho wrote it? That's right. I
wrote it. And I wrote it justfor you because I want to help
(34:31):
you get past the last hurdles ofsetting up your business and
getting it squared away. I wroteit so that you can avoid time
wasting time wasting money,wasting frustration, get the
book on Audible. You can get iton Kindle. You can get it on
Amazon, but get the book takeadvantage of the insights in
(34:52):
there. And let me know what youthink. And now back to this
excellent episode. That'sawesome. So we're listening to
jack Bourne. He's the hiscompany is deadline funnel com.
JACK. So I always like to askthis question. What's one
(35:14):
question you would love toanswer that nobody ever asked
you?
Jack Born (35:19):
Oh my gosh. stumper.
What is one question? Um, yeah.
So, one question that you that Idon't get asked very often has
to do with how did you? Like? Iguess the question, I'm trying
to think how the question wouldbe phrased it would be phrased
(35:39):
something along the lines ofwhat is what is one of the most
important one of the mostchallenging, but important
things you did in your business?
And to which I would answerFinally, understanding how to
build a team and how importantit was. Because, for me for the
longest time, so I, so I readthe, you know, a long time ago,
(36:02):
version, one of the four hourworkweek when it first came out,
read it loved it, thought,great, this whole idea of hiring
VA sounds amazing. Of course, Iwent to, you know, oDesk, or
wherever it was, like, you know,and hired very cheaply, like,
Hey, $4 an hour, sign me up,that sounds great. You can
(36:22):
probably predict what happened,it just didn't work out that
well. And so what I eventually,and so I thought, okay, I don't
know why it's working foreveryone else, but it's just not
working for me. And, and so Ireally struggle with it, I
really fell into this, thisbelief, false belief that, you
know, I was just gonna have togrind it out as a solo
(36:43):
entrepreneur, and maybe every sooften, I would hire out a task
or two. And a good friend ofmine, Brian guy who has had
built up a really huge andsuccessful paid advertising
agency named Mike Rhodes, reallygot my head straight on this,
and really helped me understandexactly how to change my
(37:04):
thinking about my business. So Istarted to bring it like one of
the key shifts for me was toreally understand that,
especially you don't, it's notnecessarily that because you
hire someone who costs a lotthat therefore they're going to
be good. But you typically getwhat you pay for. And you need
to be searching out a player'sand being willing to invest in
(37:26):
your business to have theseeight players on your team. And
so one of the one of the bigthings that happened for me was
when on my first trip toAustralia in 2016, or 2015 2015,
had to be 2015. It was a sixweek trip. And at the time, I
had someone who was a real gogetter. And still with my
(37:47):
company today, just an amazingguy. And at the time, I was
paying him hourly. And he said,Look, I, this is amazing, I love
working with you. But I just Ineed more revenue, I need more
income from this, I said, well,as it just so happens, I'm going
on the six week trip six monthsfrom now, and I am holding on to
too many tasks, I don't want tobe up at two or three in the
(38:09):
morning, dealing with thisstuff. And I also don't want my
business to suffer. So let'stalk about how I can let go of
some of these things and reallyset up an on ramp, where more
month by month by month, you'retaking on more of these
responsibilities, and I get morecomfortable working with you.
And then that way you get whatyou want, I get what I want and
see where it goes from there.
(38:30):
And I was really like takingforce, I know that we can't take
vacations now. But if we couldtake holidays, I would recommend
that everyone go, you owe it toyourself to go book a six week
holiday somewhere on theopposite end of the globe, where
it's just gonna be almostimpossible for you to work on
your business for six weeks. Andthat will be scary and it will
be frightening. But it willforce you to really let go of
(38:54):
the things that you need to letgo of. So that you can be a CEO
in your business and to attractthe people that you feel
comfortable, really, you know,handling your your your company,
at least for six weeks. Becauseonce you get over that initial
hump, you know, it's really thesky's the limit, you know, it's
just a matter of continually toinvest in, you know, additional
(39:14):
team members and building theculture that you want. But that
that was such a huge shift in mybusiness I can't even explain.
Steve Brown (39:24):
Sounds like you really have a passion for your
culture and developing a team.
And I think that something thatmany businesses struggle with
and the folks that listen tothis podcast, that's what
they're trying to do. They'retrying to put out the fires run
the business, but to try tobackfill and set up a support
team to grow that but we make somany mistakes along the way.
Jack Born (39:47):
Yeah, and I've certainly made mine and I'm
certainly not perfect. You know,and that and that again comes
back with being willing to bewrong, you know, are you willing
to take you know, take feedback,that is sometimes painful to
hear, but you need to hear. Andif you're not hearing it, how
are you going to improve? So Ithink it's really, really
(40:07):
important to be constantlyworking on yourself and letting
your team know that you'reconstant work on yourself, you
know, a quick tip that I canshare with everyone that is
really easy to implement. But Ithink a lot of entrepreneurs
overlook it, is really takingthe opportunity to share the the
client successes, not just with,you know, don't just put them on
(40:29):
your website, which I'm a hugebeliever in social proof, if you
go to Dublin funnel.com. Andlook at our case studies, I love
social proof, in forms of video,testimonials, etc. So I'm a huge
believer in it. But there'sanother place for this, which is
super, super important, which isto share it with your team. So
for example, I have a lot ofdevelopers who don't really
(40:51):
interact with our clients. Andso it's, I find that it's
really, really valuable to sharewith them when when we get
client feedback, which is quiteoften, and I love to share it on
in Slack, it's inside thecompany, and I will specifically
main people, if possible, whowent who participated in the
development of that, you know,the the people in the design
(41:12):
team, the people in thedevelopment team, and so I will
share with them, Look, we arechanging, you are changing
lives, this is the type of workthat you're doing that is really
having an impact on theseentrepreneurs, it's helping them
enjoy their lives more, spendingmore time with their family,
being able to grow theirbusiness. One recent case study,
you know, Lauren, she had a hada great funnel on Facebook, but
(41:34):
guess what the Facebook ad costskept going up and up and up,
Zuckerberg needed to buy anotheryacht or something. So you know,
the Facebook ad clicks keptgoing up. And, and she was able
to increase our conversions andbring that cost per client
acquisition way down usingDublin for like, that has a
real, you know, beyond just, youknow, hey, now I'm able to
afford those Facebook ads,again, you know, there's an
(41:56):
impact beyond that, so that Ican spend more time with my son
so that I can, you know, hireadditional people on my team and
have the business that I alwaysdream like, that's the impact.
And I love sharing those storieswith my team, because there are
certain members of my team wherethey're down sort of, like in
the engine room, they're doingthe work, and they don't
actually interact with theclients up on the top deck of
(42:19):
the of the cruise ship. And so Iwant to make sure that they
understand, like what you'redoing is having a huge impact
and sharing that with them. Sothat they see I think it's
really important that everyoneon the team understand that it's
not just about, you know,ticking the box getting the task
done. It's what impact that'shaving on the end user.
Steve Brown (42:36):
I love that that's a great reminder. So jack, we
didn't talk about this. But I'mcurious if folks that are
listening, they want to go signup for deadline funnel. Is their
affiliate link? Or is it ourday? What's the best way to go
about that?
Jack Born (42:53):
Well, we could we could create one for you with a
special deal for your audience.
So we'll just we'll just createone on the spot. What would you
like the URL to end with? We'llmake a deadline funnel comm for
it's actually let's do it onyour website. what's your
website?
Steve Brown (43:08):
So it's ROI?
online.com I had to remember mywebsite.
Jack Born (43:14):
For it listed. Let's make it forwards. Can we do
forward slash deadline funnel?
Let's do it. Okay, and that willthat will anyone who's listening
to this who's interested, wewill make it a longer trial so
that you have even even moretime. You know, one of the part
of the culture, I'll justmentioned real quick part of the
culture that I really make surethat my team hears over and over
(43:36):
again, to the point of of beingsick of hearing about it is that
I want my team to understand.
And I want everyone listening toknow that we know that no one
woke up this morning sayingGosh, I hope that there's yet
another tool that I can sign upfor monthly or annually. Yeah,
like I get it. Right, I get it.
And yet we've got 1000s and1000s of clients who love us and
(43:57):
talk about us and rave about us.
So why. And the reason isbecause we really think about
happy clients as part of our bigflywheel. Which by the way, a
huge book recommendation JimCollins. I think it's turning
the flywheel something theflywheel. It's a very, very
short book. Really, reallypowerful. And Jeff Bezos credits
(44:19):
credits this concept with someof Amazon's huge success. So
quick, quick slide there. Butyou know, so So we, we
understand that our job is tohelp clients go from the
business like the business orfunnel that they have to the one
that they want. And that's notjust lip service, the way that
that shows up in our businessthat your typical software
company does several things thatwe tried to do the opposite of.
(44:43):
And one of those is that anytimethat you mentioned some other
software company to the softwarecompany that you're asking for
help from they go, Oh, you know,you need to go talk to that and
like we can't help you withthat. Right. So one of the ways
this is not a sexy descriptionof my company, but one of the
one of the ways that I thinkabout it What we do is we're
sort of the Zapier of urgencyand deadlines. Like we connect
(45:04):
with all these different emailproviders and landing page
providers. And so when someonesays, you know, for some reason,
you know, XYZ is not working on,you know, Infusionsoft or
kajabi, or something like that,you know, we don't go, Oh, well,
you're gonna have to talk tothem. We help them through to
the extent that we can we helpthem through. And sometimes we
will point out little gotchas orlittle little tricks or
(45:26):
shortcuts, or workarounds thathelp them with this other person
software with this other companysoftware, because our job is to
help them reach get across thefinish line and succeed with
evergreening their business.
It's not to say, Well, hey,listen, our job is to teach you
about doubling funnel andanything outside of that we're
not we're not here for sothat's, that's one of the big
ways that we, that wedifferentiate ourselves. So the
(45:49):
reason why I brought that up isduring this longer trial that
you'll get through the ROI, ROI,online.com forward slash
doubling funnel is that youwill, you will be able to set up
a 15 minute screenshareonboarding call on totally free
before you've paid us one redPenny and our team will answer
whatever questions that youhave. Because we just want to
(46:10):
make sure that you know, ifyou've got something that's
holding you back, you know,again, we want to turn you into
a lifetime client of ours. Sowe're more than happy to do
that. So anyways, go check itout. If you're interested. We've
got lots and lots of clients,check out our case studies. If
you're like, what, what is thisthing that I've just heard of?
And who else uses it, go to ourcase studies page, and I think
(46:32):
you'll be blown away?
Steve Brown (46:35):
Yeah, so that's deadline funnel. com. JACK
Bourne, you've been an awesomeguest. I appreciate you so much.
How can folks reach out orconnect with you?
Jack Born (46:48):
Yeah, so you can go to well, Dublin funnel calm,
first of all, but the other theother way to connect with me
would be on my website, whichhasn't been updated in some
time, jack bourne.com. That'sjust JCK BRN. It's not spelled
like Jason Bourne or anythinglike, right. So I do think I
have some links to you know, mysocial media and stuff like
(47:10):
that. I do not post very often.
But when I do, it's probablygoing to be a video of me kite
surfing. So you know, it's notgonna, it's not gonna be, you
know, your typical Instagramstuff. But if you're, if you
want to follow me, the links arethere. So that's it.
Steve Brown (47:28):
Alright. I love the name, jack. Boy. I mean, who
gets to walk around with thatkind of name? Right?
Unknown (47:34):
Yeah.
Steve Brown (47:37):
You've been a great guest on the ROI online podcast.
Jack Born (47:41):
Thank you so much for having me.
Steve Brown (47:43):
All right. And that's a wrap. Thanks for
listening to another fun episodeof the ROI online podcast. For
more, be sure to check out theshow notes of this episode. And
feel free to connect with me onLinkedIn where we can chat, and
I can help direct you to theresources you're searching for.
To learn more about how you cangrow your business better. Be
(48:05):
sure to pick up your copy of mybook, that golden toilet at
surprise, that golden toilet.comI'm Steve Brown, and we'll see
you next week on another funepisode of the ROI online
podcast.
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