November 2, 2023 ā¢ 24 mins
Housing Trends & Affordability Challenges:
Dive into a captivating exploration of the regional housing market with Laura Shooter, Managing Director at SJ Shooter Real Estate in Dubbo. This episode promises enlightening insights into the intricacies of the rental market, housing value trends, and the pressing matter of affordability issues faced by many.
Navigating the Housing Shortage:
Discover the role of innovative initiatives, such as The Room Xchange, in addressing the housing crunch. Laura, deeply connected to the heart of Dubbo, shares the potential economic and tourism benefits that come from optimising current housing capacities.
Impact of the Pandemic & Risk-Taking:
How has the pandemic reshaped the housing landscape? Join us for a riveting discussion on altered risk-taking behaviors and their implications for the market.
Engage with Us!
Don't miss out on this enlightening journey through the regional housing market and the groundbreaking changes in the rental space. Subscribe, share, and leave us a review!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Laura Shooter (00:00):
The people with the means and resources can and
will solve their own problems,and it means that then it's
vulnerable people that are leftwith higher prices, less
availability, and none of us arereally that many unforeseen
things happening away fromstaring down the barrel of
homelessness.
Ludwina Dautovic (00:21):
Welcome to the Room Exchange podcast helping
you rent better.
In this podcast, we're havingconversations with industry
leaders in the rental market,along with everyday renters,
sharing fascinating stories,insights and tips to help you
rent better.
Hello and welcome to the RoomExchange podcast.
(00:42):
I'm Ludwina Dautovicand todaywina absolute pleasure of
talking to Laura Shooter,managing director at SJ Shooter
Real Estate in Dubbo.
She's also a pretty good mateof mine, so this is going to be
a great conversation.
Today, as a 7th generationDubbo local, she's seen how
central housing is essential toour community.
Now it's her mission to alignthe online and real world
(01:04):
experience of Dubbo in a worthyrepresentation of her home city.
Welcome to the show, laura.
Laura Shooter (01:10):
Thank you so much for having me, lidwena, I'm
really excited.
Ludwina Dautovic (01:13):
Now you and I started getting acquainted.
I think, how long ago was it?
Maybe a year ago?
Laura Shooter (01:17):
No, it's only a few months ago.
I must have been in likeFebruary, march, and I rang you
to talk about the Room Exchange,but we talked about everything
else.
Ludwina Dautovic (01:25):
Oh, that's right.
I remember that phoneconversation.
Yes, I think you were about todo a speaking gig or something.
I can't believe it was thisyear.
That's crazy.
I feel like I've known you forages.
Laura Shooter (01:35):
Same yeah, we got to meet each other in real life
at PropTech Awards NightAbsolutely so that was fantastic
.
Ludwina Dautovic (01:43):
I know I have to give myself a plug here.
The Room Exchange won the awardfor most innovative scale up
for environment socialsustainability, which I think is
a pertinent topic for today,because really the whole topic
of housing and the challengesthat's happening in regional
it's a pretty big topic, isn'tit?
Laura Shooter (02:00):
It's massive.
Ludwina Dautovic (02:00):
Yes, look, before we get into that, how
about you introduce yourself andtell me what you do and why you
do it?
Laura Shooter (02:07):
So Laura Shooter and I run SJ Shooter Real Estate
here in Dubbo together with myhusband, Samuel.
The reason I do that?
I really see real estate asessential community
infrastructure and I thinkthere's such a natural
connection between real estateand the community and I love
thinking about how to bringthings together so it's good for
(02:28):
people, good for our city andgood for the industry as well.
Ludwina Dautovic (02:31):
Yeah, that's actually a really good point,
because when we think abouthousing in Australia, I think
majority of people have thoughtabout it as an investment, not
really as one of the most basic,essential needs that everybody
requires, right.
Laura Shooter (02:45):
Yeah, I think so.
I think we can get a little bitlost in the transactional
aspects of it, but it is sofundamental and everyone needs
someone to live.
Yeah, absolutely.
And then when?
Ludwina Dautovic (02:56):
I think about renting in the housing market
and the fact that that isactually a service that
someone's providing us.
I don't think that we considerthat enough as well, so maybe we
can dig into that a little bittoday too.
But why don't you tell me abouthow you see housing in regional
areas, and particularly inDubbo?
Laura Shooter (03:16):
Yeah.
So I guess the housing market,from a sales perspective, has
followed the same trends thatwe've been seeing nationally and
we've got a little bit of ashift happening now.
So there's a little bit lessdemand, but there's still plenty
of people around.
It's just not as crazy as itwas.
So when you look at the dataand the trends, it shows that it
(03:37):
has come back just slightly.
The values have started to dropback a little bit, but what
we've seen historically in Dubboand this is reflected in a lot
of the regions is it's nevertanked, it's never crashed.
We don't have a boom and bustcycle.
It just has a little exhale andthen continues on its upward
trajectory.
In rentals it's quiteinteresting.
We hear a lot of commentaryaround investors selling out,
(04:00):
and certainly I'm sure that iswhat's been going on in the
cities.
But here what we've seen inthis last quarter there was
actually an extra 130 bonds heldby rental bonds, so that's
telling us there's been anincrease in rental accommodation
available here and what we'reseeing on the ground is people
have been kind of capped outaffordability wise, so we do
(04:21):
have some properties that havebeen sitting a little longer.
We've seen values overall go upslightly.
One bedroom prices came downever so slightly in the last
data, so I think it's showingthere is a capacity for that
market correction to be there,and that's sort of what we're
starting to experience now.
Ludwina Dautovic (04:41):
I'm hearing, typically in regional areas,
that rental accommodation is amassive issue.
Can you tell me how that's beenreflected in Dubbo?
Because particularly one of themajor concerns that I have is
businesses and just the localeconomic factors in regional
areas are really being hit hard,because if they can't house
(05:01):
workers, if they can't housepeople who are coming in to
develop and all the variousdifferent things that are
occurring in regional areas,then that's creating a massive
knock on effect overall.
So what are your thoughts onthat?
Laura Shooter (05:12):
Yeah, it's been really an interesting one to
watch.
So right at this moment, I'dsay it's probably some of the
best time to rent in Dubbo overthe last couple of years.
So there is a bit more stock onand slightly less demand.
But what we're finding is theapplicants not necessarily being
able to afford the rent, sothey're not getting a look in
(05:34):
due to just affordability issues.
And then what was happeningwhen it was tighter is that
we've got all these companiesneeding to bring workers to town
.
Like Dubbo is full of reallydiverse opportunities for people
, so there's all kinds ofdifferent positions and
businesses were unable toattract the right talent Because
they weren't able to get ahouse.
(05:55):
And so then we had thesecompanies.
They would go and they rent aproperty and take that rental
accommodation off the market sothat they could put their
workers in there, but of coursethen that's now one less
property on the market.
They're not necessarily housingworkers in there all the time.
They've just got them there sothat they can bring that talent
in when it comes up Like we'rein a talent shortage as well as
(06:15):
a housing shortage.
So they were doing that tosolve their own problems and
this is what was happening.
So the people with the meansand resources can and will solve
their own problems, and itmeans that then it's vulnerable
people that are left with higherprices, less availability, and
(06:37):
they're the ones who are missingout, and none of us are really
that many unforeseen thingshappening away from staring down
the barrel of homelessness.
Ludwina Dautovic (06:45):
Gee, is that such a strong statement?
I've been hearing as well thatmiddle class whatever that means
these days, only two paychecksaway permit themselves With all
of the interest rates.
It's sort of been occurring.
It's interesting to actuallysee the effect that that's
happening at the room exchange,because this is the first time
that we've actually seen just asmany homeowners signing up as
(07:06):
we are renters, and before itused to be about 25% homeowners
and 75% renters announced 50-50.
And I'd even go as far as tosay some weeks it can actually
even be more.
So homeowners are actuallyfilling the pinch with the
multiple interest rate hikes andlooking at ways to actually get
that additional income in.
Laura Shooter (07:24):
That's right, and so we hear a lot about the
effect on renters and it isreally important and we
absolutely need to look at howwe're making the renting
experience better.
However, owners haveexperienced exponentially more
increases in their expenses.
So, whether they're anowner-occupier or whether they
are, actually, they have aninvestment property and they're
(07:45):
supplying rental accommodationfor someone else.
Their increase in expenses isgone beyond what tenants have
experienced in the last littlewhile, and that's creating this
risk of investors leaving themarket and, as I said before,
the data shows that that's notwhat's happened here, and I
guess we have a much lowermedian price in Dubbo, so it is
possible that investors mighttake their money out of a more
(08:07):
expensive market and put itsomewhere like Dubbo, but
there's a real risk that we'regoing to lose a lot more and
it's already happening.
The data shows that we'rereducing that rental pool
further and further, butmeanwhile, like your solution,
the room exchange.
This is why I think, when I sawit and I started talking about
it because I've been asked tocomment on the housing shortage
(08:27):
in different forums for the lastlittle while, because it's
something that I've been lookingahead and going like I know
this is going to get worsebefore it gets better.
And even now, when I'm sayingit's not that bad right now,
looking ahead I know it's goingto get worse before it gets
better.
You're the first one that'sdoing something that's an actual
solution that we can deploytoday.
And this is the thing supply.
(08:48):
We have a supply issue.
Supply takes time to fix.
Meanwhile, we're bringing inmigration at rates we've not
seen in a really long time.
Like Houston, we have a problemand the room exchange is
actually tying up these twoproblems into a solution.
So you know, we've gothomeowners feeling the pinch,
we've got people who needsomewhere to stay, and that
(09:09):
comes together in findingsomething that both of them need
.
Ludwina Dautovic (09:12):
Yeah, it's interesting and for those who
are listening that have notheard about the room exchange
before, you might be interestedto know that there are over 13
million unused bare bedrooms in10 million homes across
Australia, which is existinghousing stock.
It's insane, I know.
When you look at it, it's justlike how did that happen?
Hmm, it happened, and thosespare bedrooms laying dormant in
(09:34):
a lot of these homes that we'retalking about it was struggling
with a multiple interest ratehikes and they don't see
themselves as Kind of like howshearers or people who might get
a flatmate, so to speak.
They're looking for somethingmore sophisticated and that's
where our platform comes in,because we have mandatory
vacation profile matching andalso rental options and Premium,
(09:54):
so it's to help them tonegotiate their arrangements.
So, for anyone listening whowants to know more about that,
that's what we do, and whatLaura was talking about is like,
when we're looking at solutions, what is available right now,
and so you know the government'stalking about building.
That's great.
It's gonna take about fiveyears to build some of that
housing that's required.
Yeah, but with a mess that thebuilding industry is in at the
(10:16):
moment and the long delays thatare occurring, you know, like.
Laura Shooter (10:20):
I don't even think they're gonna be putting a
dint in them in what's requiredexactly and that's what worries
me what happens to everybodywho doesn't have the privilege
and the resources to really goahead and Make those things
happen for themselves, by sayingthey'll pay extra, by using
their business to secure rentalaccommodation or short-term
(10:42):
Accommodation?
So this is everybody's problem.
Like, what does increasedhomelessness actually look like
in your city?
Like I definitely have noticedEven here in the last little
while, some things that hadpreviously been hidden are
getting a bit more visible and Ijust think, like Some people
think, oh, it won't affect me,you know, I might be able to
(11:03):
make some changes, I won't go onthat overseas holiday or
whatever.
But really it affects everybody.
When you go downtown andthere's people around that
haven't been able to, you know,that are sleeping rough or
having a hard time and I knowthe room exchange isn't a
solution for homelessness Likewhat you can do is help people
who ordinarily wouldn't be inthat position to stay far away
(11:26):
from that.
Ludwina Dautovic (11:27):
Yeah, absolutely so.
We look at it like a prevention.
Yeah, to that, right at thepoint where somebody is in
trouble or They've just losttheir job or they're needing to
leave their current premises andthey have to find somewhere
else and they can't, that's agreat point to actually then
come and look at the roomexchange because one people do
actually fall into homelessness.
Unfortunately, there's a lot ofother challenges that become
(11:49):
involved and it's required somesocial welfare support there and
our homeowners aren't there toactually support People in that
way.
So thanks for clarifying that.
Let's move on a little bit now.
I'd like to talk about Housingin terms of the lost opportunity
cost for regional areas,because I know that there's been
quite a few conversations.
One occurred yesterday from abig regional area in Victoria
won't say just yet, but you knowthey're looking at finding
(12:12):
Accommodation solutions withinthe health industry down there
because they're wanting to get,you know, doctors and nurses and
things that come to the, sopeople to come to the area, but
they can't actually findaccommodation for them.
There's a lot of lostopportunity costs like that that
are occurring because theycan't find housing for like
people.
So let's talk about some ofthose lost opportunity costs we
had a really good conversationabout this the other day and
(12:33):
there's a number of them that Ijust don't think that regional
areas are thinking about, andthese are areas that we're
looking at finding solutions forRegional towns to actually help
solve this problem.
So why don't you rattle off afew that come to mind for you?
Laura Shooter (12:46):
Yeah for sure.
And this is the thing so likebeing able to unlock that latent
capacity that's already therein the houses that already exist
.
Yeah, you can really capitalizeon opportunities.
So the film industry is a bigone that they'll come to an area
for a short period of time andwell shortish it could be a few
months and they need to findthat extra accommodation and
(13:09):
that brings all kinds ofopportunities to a regional city
like Dubbo or like otherregional areas, ongoing beyond
the life of the film.
It can really add to theeconomy and to the tourism and
all those things.
So film industry is a big one.
There's this opportunity cost ifwe can't figure this out as
regions sporting events, so theability to have large sporting
(13:30):
events.
It might just be for a weekendor a week that you have all
these extra families.
They're going to book out allthe accommodation, but really
there'd be so many people who'dbe happy to have someone come
along and stay in their houseshort term.
You know what they're there for.
It feels less risky Likethere'd be so many people and it
puts a few dollars in your backpocket.
Fantastic Again, problems tiedneatly up into a solution, lots
(13:52):
and music festivals.
I know the parks Elvis Festival, their local real estate agency
has done some amazing workhelping unlock capacity, but
your solution could help extendthat to other regional cities
who might not have someone whocould put their hand up and do
that Construction industry.
So these projects we know we'vegot a lot of projects coming to
town.
There's been a lot ofdiscussions about how to
(14:14):
accommodate all these workers onall these different projects.
We're a renewable energy zonehere, so huge solar and wind
projects going in through theregion as well as other energy
related projects.
So massive workforce that needsaccommodating and like we need
things now.
Even if they are going to buildtheir own things, that's still
going to take time.
(14:34):
So we've got that as well.
So, yeah, labor hire, shortterm projects and then, yeah,
these large companies.
So we've got a number of quitelarge companies here, like
Fletcher's, the Avertwa, andwe've got Mars Construction.
All these companies need tobring big workforces in and
being able to accommodate themhas been like one of the
(14:56):
challenges they're facing beingable to get the workers to do
the job they need to do.
Ludwina Dautovic (15:00):
Yeah, one of the ideas that we've tossed
around, interestingly, since ourinitial discussion, laura.
It has actually expanded intosome other conversations, which
I'll share more specificallyabout with you on the download
another time.
But when the RIM exchange looksat any kind of solution like
this that we can solve, one ofour core values is how can we do
it without removing furtherproperties from the rental pool,
(15:23):
because we don't want houses tojust be available for short
term stays and then they remainempty for a good portion of the
year.
That's against our companyvalues.
So one of the models that wehave begun to develop is what
would have typically been calledyears ago, the concept of
billeting.
So when you were talking aboutyou know save there was a family
(15:44):
sporting event that was comingto town, like maybe a finals
football event or sporting eventor something like that.
I remember as a kid, you know,when we were involved in netball
.
We'd get billeted out or verydifferently set up back then and
it'd be like, hey, who's got aroom in the house?
They stick their hand up, yetyou'll do, and you'd go and stay
there with your family.
This would be much moreorganised, but having the local
(16:05):
community realise that if theywere to just open up their home,
they could be putting a tent inthe backyard.
Maybe a couple of kids will topand tail in a bed, or you know,
it doesn't have to be a hotel.
Ready, tight, short stay set up,it's just look.
If you need somewhere that's abit cheaper, this is our price
for three or four days.
Come and stay and the roomexchange can build a micro
version of what it is that ourmain platform is and facilitate
(16:29):
that for the local area.
Then that is going to bring alot more of these opportunities
to the local towns and also getthe local people involved.
And I grew up in a littlecountry town called Howlong,
just outside of Aubrey, so Iknow what community people are
like and my mum had a revolvingfront door.
It was crazy Like we kneweveryone in town and when anyone
came to town they did somewhereto stay.
(16:50):
You'd stick your hand up andthat's just the nature of
country living, yeah.
Laura Shooter (16:54):
Yeah, I think these things are good for us.
It can seem a littleuncomfortable or unfamiliar to
go and stay with people youdon't know and I think,
particularly you know justrecently I don't know if it's
the pandemic or other factorswe're so scared of each other
and I think so often there's somuch joy to be found in actually
(17:15):
taking a risk on each other and, yeah, it can really add to
both people's life to kind of bea bit vulnerable, have those
connections, and this is one ofthe things I remember we talked
about in my first chat.
I'm like how do you help peoplesee the best in each other and
do you have kind of these issues?
I think we're also afraid ofthe worst case scenario and
(17:36):
we're all afraid of kind ofthrowing our hat in the ring
going.
Yes, I can be part of thesolution because we're scared of
each other and you've notexperienced this and I was
surprised because you'vefacilitated a lot of these
things.
But what you're really seeingis it is it's adding to people.
It's not kind of this as riskyas it sounds, I guess.
Ludwina Dautovic (17:53):
One of the things that I do a few times a
year is going to be a housematein someone's home, so I can know
exactly what it feels like andof course, my circumstance might
be a little different becauseof who I am.
But the last time I did it wasin January this year, for three
weeks and it was in a reallybeautiful, a mud brick house
down in New Warburton and it wasjust amazing With a woman.
(18:13):
She was single mother with achild and it was just okay.
I've got to kind of get thevibe of the house.
How can I contribute,establishing what the rules are
around, how I interacted with adaughter.
All of that happened veryquickly.
And it's interesting when you goand you put yourself in someone
else's place where they're openlike that, and they're saying,
yeah, well, yeah, come and stay,it's three weeks, come and have
(18:33):
a good time here, and you canadapt for a very short period of
time.
But then you find that veryquickly you're not falling into
each other's groove anyway, andI don't know about you, but I've
been married 30 years and youget very, very used to how you
live in your own house and howyou already become around the
person that you live most with.
It's actually really nice towhat's the word.
(18:54):
I become more consciously awareof myself.
I think it's a word when I'm insomebody else's place.
Laura Shooter (19:00):
Does that make sense?
Yeah, yeah, it does make sense.
That's what I mean.
I think it's good for us tohave these experiences and to be
exposed to different people,different ways of living, and,
yeah, I think it's only good.
Ludwina Dautovic (19:14):
Yeah, no, I do too.
The benefit that it can bringto local communities is it's
very strong, it's very positive.
And you know, I have to say too, I believe that the majority of
people in the world are goodpeople and, having said that,
it's still important to set up astructure or a system or
process to provide thatconfidence to people.
And so, when we talk about themandatory verification, when
(19:34):
somebody registers on ourplatform their name and the date
of birth they register with, ifit's not correct, when they do
the verification process whichis inbuilt in our system, if it
doesn't match exactly what theyregistered with, they won't pass
, which means they can't connectwith anyone.
So if you're a homeowner andyou're wondering, well, how do
you know that person is who theysay they are, you have to go
through that process and theyhave to go through that process
(19:57):
to be able to connect with eachother.
And that has been like anatural filtering process,
because people with illintention or who have got
something to hide will notcomplete our process.
Laura Shooter (20:09):
And that's fine.
Ludwina Dautovic (20:10):
You know, that's absolutely fine with us.
Yeah, yeah, you're doing us afavour.
We've got a lot ofcollaboration.
We've not had one complaint.
The process works.
Laura Shooter (20:18):
That's right.
I just think that's remarkable,yeah.
Ludwina Dautovic (20:21):
Thank you.
We're the first and only VericBighthouse sharing platform in
the country.
We've made that a rule from theget-go and I'm really glad that
we have.
The other part is the profilematching.
You can look at that whetheryou're looking at some for
someone to come into your homenow meet to long-term, or if
you're listening in a regionalarea and you want to have a
conversation with us about howwe can possibly help you not
(20:41):
miss out on these opportunitycosts that we mentioned.
But we can actually establish asetup that actually suits that
model for you.
We're looking at a number ofdifferent commercial models and
white label solutions fororganizations and businesses in
regional areas.
You are in Melbourne at themoment, I believe Back in Dubbo.
Oh, you're back in Dubbo.
You were in Melbourne, yeah.
Laura Shooter (21:02):
But I was there a couple of days ago.
Ludwina Dautovic (21:04):
At the Rise Conference.
At the Rise Conference, yeah,tell us about that.
Laura Shooter (21:09):
Yeah, look, it was an incredibly impactful
conference.
The Rise Initiative ChampionsMental Wellness in the real
estate industry.
It's a one-day conference.
They brought in people from alldifferent backgrounds, all
different walks of life.
They shared really vulnerablestories.
Yeah, I think there are about6,700 people there in the
auditorium and having thisexperience together, it was
(21:32):
really impactful.
I think a lot of people were intears.
Nazir Sabani, the streetsbarber, spoke about his journey
through addiction to then beingin service and living on purpose
.
He gives haircuts to homelesspeople to help them reconnect
with their feeling human again.
Yeah, really just incrediblestory, stories like that.
(21:55):
I could mention all thespeakers, but it was really cool
.
Actually, samuel and I got tospeak as well.
We talked about a panel calledcouples therapy and how we make
it work.
We've been married for 16 yearsand working together for about
eight Just to share what that'sbeen like.
Ludwina Dautovic (22:12):
Yeah, that's an interesting one.
Do you both work in the sameenvironment or different
locations?
Laura Shooter (22:18):
Same.
I think the business startedfrom our home.
When we talk about thatseparation from work, that
hasn't really been theexperience for us.
I don't think that's all badeither.
I think the shared context isadded to it.
There's a lot we understandjust naturally, just because
we're working together.
Ludwina Dautovic (22:37):
Yeah, my husband and I have been working
together for about eight years.
When I say together, not in thesame business, he's not
involved in the room exchangeand I'm not involved in Atlas
Electrical, but his office isright behind me in our house,
right?
Yeah, it's interesting.
You've got to put up some veryclear boundaries, but I've been
working from home for 29 years,so I felt like a space invader.
Laura Shooter (22:57):
Yeah, right, that would have been strange.
Ludwina Dautovic (22:59):
Yeah, it was really interesting.
Before we wrap up, I'm headingup your way.
I am going to be doing a roadtrip from Melbourne up to
Brisbane.
I'm going inland first.
I'm going to stop at a bunch ofregional towns along the way
Shepperton, albury, hopefullyDubbo I think there's one before
Dubbo, I can't remember.
I'm in Tuomba and then get upto Brisbane.
(23:19):
Did I name them in roughly theright order?
I think I did Something likethat.
Laura Shooter (23:24):
Maybe not Tuomba's after Dubbo, butā¦.
Ludwina Dautovic (23:26):
Yeah, after Dubbo.
Yeah, just before Brisbane.
Yeah, but heading out that way.
But I'll be mentioning wherethey are.
I'll come and crash at yourplace for a few days.
Laura Shooter (23:34):
Yeah, you're most welcome in the spare room.
Ludwina Dautovic (23:36):
Yeah, absolutely Looking forward to it
and looking forward to having alook around Dubbo as well.
Hopefully we can also helpsolve some of the housing issues
up there with the room exchange.
Laura, thank you so much forjoining us today.
This has been an absolutepleasure.
This is the first time we'veactually done a video version of
our podcast.
I'm usually an audio podcast,so I wanted to get a few video
clips of this one with you.
(23:56):
So thank you very much.
Thank you If you are listeningand you want to watch the video.
You'll be able to see it on ourYouTube channel as well at the
room exchange.
Laura, how can people find outmore about you?
Laura Shooter (24:07):
LinkedIn's probably where I'm most active.
Just Laura Shudder.
Our business, SJ Shudder RealEstate, is on Facebook and
Instagram.
Yeah, they're probably the bestways.
Ludwina Dautovic (24:17):
Fantastic.
We'll have those links on theshow notes page as well, but
thank you so much.
We'll speak to you again andthank you my pleasure.
Laura Shooter (24:24):
Thank you, ladwina, bye, bye-bye.
Ludwina Dautovic (24:26):
Thanks for listening.
If you're looking for your nextrental, head over to the Room
Exchange, australia's firstverified house sharing platform.
Our profiles make it easy tomatch you based on personality,
values and lifestyle, and youcan choose to rent or offset
your rent, saving you time andmoney.
To find out more, go totheroomexchangecom.
You can connect with us acrossour social media platforms at
(24:49):
theroomexchangecom.
The people with the means and resources can and
will solve their own problems,and it means that then it's
vulnerable people that are leftwith higher prices, less
availability, and none of us arereally that many unforeseen
things happening away fromstaring down the barrel of
homelessness.
Ludwina Dautovic (00:21):
Welcome to the Room Exchange podcast helping
you rent better.
In this podcast, we're havingconversations with industry
leaders in the rental market,along with everyday renters,
sharing fascinating stories,insights and tips to help you
rent better.
Hello and welcome to the RoomExchange podcast.
(00:42):
I'm Ludwina Dautovicand todaywina absolute pleasure of
talking to Laura Shooter,managing director at SJ Shooter
Real Estate in Dubbo.
She's also a pretty good mateof mine, so this is going to be
a great conversation.
Today, as a 7th generationDubbo local, she's seen how
central housing is essential toour community.
Now it's her mission to alignthe online and real world
(01:04):
experience of Dubbo in a worthyrepresentation of her home city.
Welcome to the show, laura.
Laura Shooter (01:10):
Thank you so much for having me, lidwena, I'm
really excited.
Ludwina Dautovic (01:13):
Now you and I started getting acquainted.
I think, how long ago was it?
Maybe a year ago?
Laura Shooter (01:17):
No, it's only a few months ago.
I must have been in likeFebruary, march, and I rang you
to talk about the Room Exchange,but we talked about everything
else.
Ludwina Dautovic (01:25):
Oh, that's right.
I remember that phoneconversation.
Yes, I think you were about todo a speaking gig or something.
I can't believe it was thisyear.
That's crazy.
I feel like I've known you forages.
Laura Shooter (01:35):
Same yeah, we got to meet each other in real life
at PropTech Awards NightAbsolutely so that was fantastic
.
Ludwina Dautovic (01:43):
I know I have to give myself a plug here.
The Room Exchange won the awardfor most innovative scale up
for environment socialsustainability, which I think is
a pertinent topic for today,because really the whole topic
of housing and the challengesthat's happening in regional
it's a pretty big topic, isn'tit?
Laura Shooter (02:00):
It's massive.
Ludwina Dautovic (02:00):
Yes, look, before we get into that, how
about you introduce yourself andtell me what you do and why you
do it?
Laura Shooter (02:07):
So Laura Shooter and I run SJ Shooter Real Estate
here in Dubbo together with myhusband, Samuel.
The reason I do that?
I really see real estate asessential community
infrastructure and I thinkthere's such a natural
connection between real estateand the community and I love
thinking about how to bringthings together so it's good for
(02:28):
people, good for our city andgood for the industry as well.
Ludwina Dautovic (02:31):
Yeah, that's actually a really good point,
because when we think abouthousing in Australia, I think
majority of people have thoughtabout it as an investment, not
really as one of the most basic,essential needs that everybody
requires, right.
Laura Shooter (02:45):
Yeah, I think so.
I think we can get a little bitlost in the transactional
aspects of it, but it is sofundamental and everyone needs
someone to live.
Yeah, absolutely.
And then when?
Ludwina Dautovic (02:56):
I think about renting in the housing market
and the fact that that isactually a service that
someone's providing us.
I don't think that we considerthat enough as well, so maybe we
can dig into that a little bittoday too.
But why don't you tell me abouthow you see housing in regional
areas, and particularly inDubbo?
Laura Shooter (03:16):
Yeah.
So I guess the housing market,from a sales perspective, has
followed the same trends thatwe've been seeing nationally and
we've got a little bit of ashift happening now.
So there's a little bit lessdemand, but there's still plenty
of people around.
It's just not as crazy as itwas.
So when you look at the dataand the trends, it shows that it
(03:37):
has come back just slightly.
The values have started to dropback a little bit, but what
we've seen historically in Dubboand this is reflected in a lot
of the regions is it's nevertanked, it's never crashed.
We don't have a boom and bustcycle.
It just has a little exhale andthen continues on its upward
trajectory.
In rentals it's quiteinteresting.
We hear a lot of commentaryaround investors selling out,
(04:00):
and certainly I'm sure that iswhat's been going on in the
cities.
But here what we've seen inthis last quarter there was
actually an extra 130 bonds heldby rental bonds, so that's
telling us there's been anincrease in rental accommodation
available here and what we'reseeing on the ground is people
have been kind of capped outaffordability wise, so we do
(04:21):
have some properties that havebeen sitting a little longer.
We've seen values overall go upslightly.
One bedroom prices came downever so slightly in the last
data, so I think it's showingthere is a capacity for that
market correction to be there,and that's sort of what we're
starting to experience now.
Ludwina Dautovic (04:41):
I'm hearing, typically in regional areas,
that rental accommodation is amassive issue.
Can you tell me how that's beenreflected in Dubbo?
Because particularly one of themajor concerns that I have is
businesses and just the localeconomic factors in regional
areas are really being hit hard,because if they can't house
(05:01):
workers, if they can't housepeople who are coming in to
develop and all the variousdifferent things that are
occurring in regional areas,then that's creating a massive
knock on effect overall.
So what are your thoughts onthat?
Laura Shooter (05:12):
Yeah, it's been really an interesting one to
watch.
So right at this moment, I'dsay it's probably some of the
best time to rent in Dubbo overthe last couple of years.
So there is a bit more stock onand slightly less demand.
But what we're finding is theapplicants not necessarily being
able to afford the rent, sothey're not getting a look in
(05:34):
due to just affordability issues.
And then what was happeningwhen it was tighter is that
we've got all these companiesneeding to bring workers to town
.
Like Dubbo is full of reallydiverse opportunities for people
, so there's all kinds ofdifferent positions and
businesses were unable toattract the right talent Because
they weren't able to get ahouse.
(05:55):
And so then we had thesecompanies.
They would go and they rent aproperty and take that rental
accommodation off the market sothat they could put their
workers in there, but of coursethen that's now one less
property on the market.
They're not necessarily housingworkers in there all the time.
They've just got them there sothat they can bring that talent
in when it comes up Like we'rein a talent shortage as well as
(06:15):
a housing shortage.
So they were doing that tosolve their own problems and
this is what was happening.
So the people with the meansand resources can and will solve
their own problems, and itmeans that then it's vulnerable
people that are left with higherprices, less availability, and
(06:37):
they're the ones who are missingout, and none of us are really
that many unforeseen thingshappening away from staring down
the barrel of homelessness.
Ludwina Dautovic (06:45):
Gee, is that such a strong statement?
I've been hearing as well thatmiddle class whatever that means
these days, only two paychecksaway permit themselves With all
of the interest rates.
It's sort of been occurring.
It's interesting to actuallysee the effect that that's
happening at the room exchange,because this is the first time
that we've actually seen just asmany homeowners signing up as
(07:06):
we are renters, and before itused to be about 25% homeowners
and 75% renters announced 50-50.
And I'd even go as far as tosay some weeks it can actually
even be more.
So homeowners are actuallyfilling the pinch with the
multiple interest rate hikes andlooking at ways to actually get
that additional income in.
Laura Shooter (07:24):
That's right, and so we hear a lot about the
effect on renters and it isreally important and we
absolutely need to look at howwe're making the renting
experience better.
However, owners haveexperienced exponentially more
increases in their expenses.
So, whether they're anowner-occupier or whether they
are, actually, they have aninvestment property and they're
(07:45):
supplying rental accommodationfor someone else.
Their increase in expenses isgone beyond what tenants have
experienced in the last littlewhile, and that's creating this
risk of investors leaving themarket and, as I said before,
the data shows that that's notwhat's happened here, and I
guess we have a much lowermedian price in Dubbo, so it is
possible that investors mighttake their money out of a more
(08:07):
expensive market and put itsomewhere like Dubbo, but
there's a real risk that we'regoing to lose a lot more and
it's already happening.
The data shows that we'rereducing that rental pool
further and further, butmeanwhile, like your solution,
the room exchange.
This is why I think, when I sawit and I started talking about
it because I've been asked tocomment on the housing shortage
(08:27):
in different forums for the lastlittle while, because it's
something that I've been lookingahead and going like I know
this is going to get worsebefore it gets better.
And even now, when I'm sayingit's not that bad right now,
looking ahead I know it's goingto get worse before it gets
better.
You're the first one that'sdoing something that's an actual
solution that we can deploytoday.
And this is the thing supply.
(08:48):
We have a supply issue.
Supply takes time to fix.
Meanwhile, we're bringing inmigration at rates we've not
seen in a really long time.
Like Houston, we have a problemand the room exchange is
actually tying up these twoproblems into a solution.
So you know, we've gothomeowners feeling the pinch,
we've got people who needsomewhere to stay, and that
(09:09):
comes together in findingsomething that both of them need
.
Ludwina Dautovic (09:12):
Yeah, it's interesting and for those who
are listening that have notheard about the room exchange
before, you might be interestedto know that there are over 13
million unused bare bedrooms in10 million homes across
Australia, which is existinghousing stock.
It's insane, I know.
When you look at it, it's justlike how did that happen?
Hmm, it happened, and thosespare bedrooms laying dormant in
(09:34):
a lot of these homes that we'retalking about it was struggling
with a multiple interest ratehikes and they don't see
themselves as Kind of like howshearers or people who might get
a flatmate, so to speak.
They're looking for somethingmore sophisticated and that's
where our platform comes in,because we have mandatory
vacation profile matching andalso rental options and Premium,
(09:54):
so it's to help them tonegotiate their arrangements.
So, for anyone listening whowants to know more about that,
that's what we do, and whatLaura was talking about is like,
when we're looking at solutions, what is available right now,
and so you know the government'stalking about building.
That's great.
It's gonna take about fiveyears to build some of that
housing that's required.
Yeah, but with a mess that thebuilding industry is in at the
(10:16):
moment and the long delays thatare occurring, you know, like.
Laura Shooter (10:20):
I don't even think they're gonna be putting a
dint in them in what's requiredexactly and that's what worries
me what happens to everybodywho doesn't have the privilege
and the resources to really goahead and Make those things
happen for themselves, by sayingthey'll pay extra, by using
their business to secure rentalaccommodation or short-term
(10:42):
Accommodation?
So this is everybody's problem.
Like, what does increasedhomelessness actually look like
in your city?
Like I definitely have noticedEven here in the last little
while, some things that hadpreviously been hidden are
getting a bit more visible and Ijust think, like Some people
think, oh, it won't affect me,you know, I might be able to
(11:03):
make some changes, I won't go onthat overseas holiday or
whatever.
But really it affects everybody.
When you go downtown andthere's people around that
haven't been able to, you know,that are sleeping rough or
having a hard time and I knowthe room exchange isn't a
solution for homelessness Likewhat you can do is help people
who ordinarily wouldn't be inthat position to stay far away
(11:26):
from that.
Ludwina Dautovic (11:27):
Yeah, absolutely so.
We look at it like a prevention.
Yeah, to that, right at thepoint where somebody is in
trouble or They've just losttheir job or they're needing to
leave their current premises andthey have to find somewhere
else and they can't, that's agreat point to actually then
come and look at the roomexchange because one people do
actually fall into homelessness.
Unfortunately, there's a lot ofother challenges that become
(11:49):
involved and it's required somesocial welfare support there and
our homeowners aren't there toactually support People in that
way.
So thanks for clarifying that.
Let's move on a little bit now.
I'd like to talk about Housingin terms of the lost opportunity
cost for regional areas,because I know that there's been
quite a few conversations.
One occurred yesterday from abig regional area in Victoria
won't say just yet, but you knowthey're looking at finding
(12:12):
Accommodation solutions withinthe health industry down there
because they're wanting to get,you know, doctors and nurses and
things that come to the, sopeople to come to the area, but
they can't actually findaccommodation for them.
There's a lot of lostopportunity costs like that that
are occurring because theycan't find housing for like
people.
So let's talk about some ofthose lost opportunity costs we
had a really good conversationabout this the other day and
(12:33):
there's a number of them that Ijust don't think that regional
areas are thinking about, andthese are areas that we're
looking at finding solutions forRegional towns to actually help
solve this problem.
So why don't you rattle off afew that come to mind for you?
Laura Shooter (12:46):
Yeah for sure.
And this is the thing so likebeing able to unlock that latent
capacity that's already therein the houses that already exist
.
Yeah, you can really capitalizeon opportunities.
So the film industry is a bigone that they'll come to an area
for a short period of time andwell shortish it could be a few
months and they need to findthat extra accommodation and
(13:09):
that brings all kinds ofopportunities to a regional city
like Dubbo or like otherregional areas, ongoing beyond
the life of the film.
It can really add to theeconomy and to the tourism and
all those things.
So film industry is a big one.
There's this opportunity cost ifwe can't figure this out as
regions sporting events, so theability to have large sporting
(13:30):
events.
It might just be for a weekendor a week that you have all
these extra families.
They're going to book out allthe accommodation, but really
there'd be so many people who'dbe happy to have someone come
along and stay in their houseshort term.
You know what they're there for.
It feels less risky Likethere'd be so many people and it
puts a few dollars in your backpocket.
Fantastic Again, problems tiedneatly up into a solution, lots
(13:52):
and music festivals.
I know the parks Elvis Festival, their local real estate agency
has done some amazing workhelping unlock capacity, but
your solution could help extendthat to other regional cities
who might not have someone whocould put their hand up and do
that Construction industry.
So these projects we know we'vegot a lot of projects coming to
town.
There's been a lot ofdiscussions about how to
(14:14):
accommodate all these workers onall these different projects.
We're a renewable energy zonehere, so huge solar and wind
projects going in through theregion as well as other energy
related projects.
So massive workforce that needsaccommodating and like we need
things now.
Even if they are going to buildtheir own things, that's still
going to take time.
(14:34):
So we've got that as well.
So, yeah, labor hire, shortterm projects and then, yeah,
these large companies.
So we've got a number of quitelarge companies here, like
Fletcher's, the Avertwa, andwe've got Mars Construction.
All these companies need tobring big workforces in and
being able to accommodate themhas been like one of the
(14:56):
challenges they're facing beingable to get the workers to do
the job they need to do.
Ludwina Dautovic (15:00):
Yeah, one of the ideas that we've tossed
around, interestingly, since ourinitial discussion, laura.
It has actually expanded intosome other conversations, which
I'll share more specificallyabout with you on the download
another time.
But when the RIM exchange looksat any kind of solution like
this that we can solve, one ofour core values is how can we do
it without removing furtherproperties from the rental pool,
(15:23):
because we don't want houses tojust be available for short
term stays and then they remainempty for a good portion of the
year.
That's against our companyvalues.
So one of the models that wehave begun to develop is what
would have typically been calledyears ago, the concept of
billeting.
So when you were talking aboutyou know save there was a family
(15:44):
sporting event that was comingto town, like maybe a finals
football event or sporting eventor something like that.
I remember as a kid, you know,when we were involved in netball
.
We'd get billeted out or verydifferently set up back then and
it'd be like, hey, who's got aroom in the house?
They stick their hand up, yetyou'll do, and you'd go and stay
there with your family.
This would be much moreorganised, but having the local
(16:05):
community realise that if theywere to just open up their home,
they could be putting a tent inthe backyard.
Maybe a couple of kids will topand tail in a bed, or you know,
it doesn't have to be a hotel.
Ready, tight, short stay set up,it's just look.
If you need somewhere that's abit cheaper, this is our price
for three or four days.
Come and stay and the roomexchange can build a micro
version of what it is that ourmain platform is and facilitate
(16:29):
that for the local area.
Then that is going to bring alot more of these opportunities
to the local towns and also getthe local people involved.
And I grew up in a littlecountry town called Howlong,
just outside of Aubrey, so Iknow what community people are
like and my mum had a revolvingfront door.
It was crazy Like we kneweveryone in town and when anyone
came to town they did somewhereto stay.
(16:50):
You'd stick your hand up andthat's just the nature of
country living, yeah.
Laura Shooter (16:54):
Yeah, I think these things are good for us.
It can seem a littleuncomfortable or unfamiliar to
go and stay with people youdon't know and I think,
particularly you know justrecently I don't know if it's
the pandemic or other factorswe're so scared of each other
and I think so often there's somuch joy to be found in actually
(17:15):
taking a risk on each other and, yeah, it can really add to
both people's life to kind of bea bit vulnerable, have those
connections, and this is one ofthe things I remember we talked
about in my first chat.
I'm like how do you help peoplesee the best in each other and
do you have kind of these issues?
I think we're also afraid ofthe worst case scenario and
(17:36):
we're all afraid of kind ofthrowing our hat in the ring
going.
Yes, I can be part of thesolution because we're scared of
each other and you've notexperienced this and I was
surprised because you'vefacilitated a lot of these
things.
But what you're really seeingis it is it's adding to people.
It's not kind of this as riskyas it sounds, I guess.
Ludwina Dautovic (17:53):
One of the things that I do a few times a
year is going to be a housematein someone's home, so I can know
exactly what it feels like andof course, my circumstance might
be a little different becauseof who I am.
But the last time I did it wasin January this year, for three
weeks and it was in a reallybeautiful, a mud brick house
down in New Warburton and it wasjust amazing With a woman.
(18:13):
She was single mother with achild and it was just okay.
I've got to kind of get thevibe of the house.
How can I contribute,establishing what the rules are
around, how I interacted with adaughter.
All of that happened veryquickly.
And it's interesting when you goand you put yourself in someone
else's place where they're openlike that, and they're saying,
yeah, well, yeah, come and stay,it's three weeks, come and have
(18:33):
a good time here, and you canadapt for a very short period of
time.
But then you find that veryquickly you're not falling into
each other's groove anyway, andI don't know about you, but I've
been married 30 years and youget very, very used to how you
live in your own house and howyou already become around the
person that you live most with.
It's actually really nice towhat's the word.
(18:54):
I become more consciously awareof myself.
I think it's a word when I'm insomebody else's place.
Laura Shooter (19:00):
Does that make sense?
Yeah, yeah, it does make sense.
That's what I mean.
I think it's good for us tohave these experiences and to be
exposed to different people,different ways of living, and,
yeah, I think it's only good.
Ludwina Dautovic (19:14):
Yeah, no, I do too.
The benefit that it can bringto local communities is it's
very strong, it's very positive.
And you know, I have to say too, I believe that the majority of
people in the world are goodpeople and, having said that,
it's still important to set up astructure or a system or
process to provide thatconfidence to people.
And so, when we talk about themandatory verification, when
(19:34):
somebody registers on ourplatform their name and the date
of birth they register with, ifit's not correct, when they do
the verification process whichis inbuilt in our system, if it
doesn't match exactly what theyregistered with, they won't pass
, which means they can't connectwith anyone.
So if you're a homeowner andyou're wondering, well, how do
you know that person is who theysay they are, you have to go
through that process and theyhave to go through that process
(19:57):
to be able to connect with eachother.
And that has been like anatural filtering process,
because people with illintention or who have got
something to hide will notcomplete our process.
Laura Shooter (20:09):
And that's fine.
Ludwina Dautovic (20:10):
You know, that's absolutely fine with us.
Yeah, yeah, you're doing us afavour.
We've got a lot ofcollaboration.
We've not had one complaint.
The process works.
Laura Shooter (20:18):
That's right.
I just think that's remarkable,yeah.
Ludwina Dautovic (20:21):
Thank you.
We're the first and only VericBighthouse sharing platform in
the country.
We've made that a rule from theget-go and I'm really glad that
we have.
The other part is the profilematching.
You can look at that whetheryou're looking at some for
someone to come into your homenow meet to long-term, or if
you're listening in a regionalarea and you want to have a
conversation with us about howwe can possibly help you not
(20:41):
miss out on these opportunitycosts that we mentioned.
But we can actually establish asetup that actually suits that
model for you.
We're looking at a number ofdifferent commercial models and
white label solutions fororganizations and businesses in
regional areas.
You are in Melbourne at themoment, I believe Back in Dubbo.
Oh, you're back in Dubbo.
You were in Melbourne, yeah.
Laura Shooter (21:02):
But I was there a couple of days ago.
Ludwina Dautovic (21:04):
At the Rise Conference.
At the Rise Conference, yeah,tell us about that.
Laura Shooter (21:09):
Yeah, look, it was an incredibly impactful
conference.
The Rise Initiative ChampionsMental Wellness in the real
estate industry.
It's a one-day conference.
They brought in people from alldifferent backgrounds, all
different walks of life.
They shared really vulnerablestories.
Yeah, I think there are about6,700 people there in the
auditorium and having thisexperience together, it was
(21:32):
really impactful.
I think a lot of people were intears.
Nazir Sabani, the streetsbarber, spoke about his journey
through addiction to then beingin service and living on purpose
.
He gives haircuts to homelesspeople to help them reconnect
with their feeling human again.
Yeah, really just incrediblestory, stories like that.
(21:55):
I could mention all thespeakers, but it was really cool
.
Actually, samuel and I got tospeak as well.
We talked about a panel calledcouples therapy and how we make
it work.
We've been married for 16 yearsand working together for about
eight Just to share what that'sbeen like.
Ludwina Dautovic (22:12):
Yeah, that's an interesting one.
Do you both work in the sameenvironment or different
locations?
Laura Shooter (22:18):
Same.
I think the business startedfrom our home.
When we talk about thatseparation from work, that
hasn't really been theexperience for us.
I don't think that's all badeither.
I think the shared context isadded to it.
There's a lot we understandjust naturally, just because
we're working together.
Ludwina Dautovic (22:37):
Yeah, my husband and I have been working
together for about eight years.
When I say together, not in thesame business, he's not
involved in the room exchangeand I'm not involved in Atlas
Electrical, but his office isright behind me in our house,
right?
Yeah, it's interesting.
You've got to put up some veryclear boundaries, but I've been
working from home for 29 years,so I felt like a space invader.
Laura Shooter (22:57):
Yeah, right, that would have been strange.
Ludwina Dautovic (22:59):
Yeah, it was really interesting.
Before we wrap up, I'm headingup your way.
I am going to be doing a roadtrip from Melbourne up to
Brisbane.
I'm going inland first.
I'm going to stop at a bunch ofregional towns along the way
Shepperton, albury, hopefullyDubbo I think there's one before
Dubbo, I can't remember.
I'm in Tuomba and then get upto Brisbane.
(23:19):
Did I name them in roughly theright order?
I think I did Something likethat.
Laura Shooter (23:24):
Maybe not Tuomba's after Dubbo, butā¦.
Ludwina Dautovic (23:26):
Yeah, after Dubbo.
Yeah, just before Brisbane.
Yeah, but heading out that way.
But I'll be mentioning wherethey are.
I'll come and crash at yourplace for a few days.
Laura Shooter (23:34):
Yeah, you're most welcome in the spare room.
Ludwina Dautovic (23:36):
Yeah, absolutely Looking forward to it
and looking forward to having alook around Dubbo as well.
Hopefully we can also helpsolve some of the housing issues
up there with the room exchange.
Laura, thank you so much forjoining us today.
This has been an absolutepleasure.
This is the first time we'veactually done a video version of
our podcast.
I'm usually an audio podcast,so I wanted to get a few video
clips of this one with you.
(23:56):
So thank you very much.
Thank you If you are listeningand you want to watch the video.
You'll be able to see it on ourYouTube channel as well at the
room exchange.
Laura, how can people find outmore about you?
Laura Shooter (24:07):
LinkedIn's probably where I'm most active.
Just Laura Shudder.
Our business, SJ Shudder RealEstate, is on Facebook and
Instagram.
Yeah, they're probably the bestways.
Ludwina Dautovic (24:17):
Fantastic.
We'll have those links on theshow notes page as well, but
thank you so much.
We'll speak to you again andthank you my pleasure.
Laura Shooter (24:24):
Thank you, ladwina, bye, bye-bye.
Ludwina Dautovic (24:26):
Thanks for listening.
If you're looking for your nextrental, head over to the Room
Exchange, australia's firstverified house sharing platform.
Our profiles make it easy tomatch you based on personality,
values and lifestyle, and youcan choose to rent or offset
your rent, saving you time andmoney.
To find out more, go totheroomexchangecom.
You can connect with us acrossour social media platforms at
(24:49):
theroomexchangecom.
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