Boosting Your Salesforce Career: LinkedIn Strategies, Career Paths, and Starting a Consulting Firm

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Ever wondered how to navigate the complexities of LinkedIn and boost your career in the Salesforce ecosystem? Brace yourself for an enlightening conversation with Vanessa Grant, Fred Cadena, and Peter Ganza, as we navigate these topics and more. We dive into the vibrant Salesforce community, the upcoming Dreamforce event, and the ins and outs of successful networking in this dynamic field.

We delve into deeper waters, discussing the significance of the 'Open to Work' feature on LinkedIn and how it can shape perceptions amongst potential employers and recruiters. We uncover the importance of authenticity, crafting a unique voice, and leverage Vanessa's experience from her contribution to the Salesforce Talent Ecosystem Report 2022 by 10K. Join us as we explore the ever-increasing demand for business analysts and the skills necessary to succeed in this role.

Finally, we tackle the technical and functional career paths in Salesforce, offering valuable insights for both novices and seasoned professionals. We share anecdotes from our personal career journeys, from selling cars to product management, and offer advice on the steps to take in starting a Salesforce consulting firm. Be prepared for insightful career advice, tips on overcoming barriers, and learn how to make smart decisions that will propel you towards success in the Salesforce ecosystem.

Episode Transcript

Announcer (00:02):
And now the number one audio program that helps you
to hire, get hired and soarhigher in the Salesforce
ecosystem.
It's the Salesforce career showwith Josh Matthews and Vanessa
Grant.

Josh Matthews (00:20):
Okay, welcome everybody.
We are with the exact same liveaudience as the last podcast,
because it's the same live show.
It's just we tend to do thisabout 90 minutes or a couple
hours at a time.
With me is my wonderful co-host, vanessa Grant.
Go ahead and do a quick intro,vanessa.

Vanessa Grant (00:37):
Hi everybody.
It's Vanessa Grant here tosupport folks on their
Salesforce career journeys, asI've been doing for a number of
years, but my background isconsulting product ownership and
I've been doing Salesforce for13 years.

Josh Matthews (00:49):
Terrific.
And we've also got our friendFred Cadena, who has his own
podcast.
Go ahead, fred, say hi toeverybody and share your podcast
as well, hi.

Fred (00:57):
Josh, thanks for having me.
As always, podcast is BankingNight Disruption.
We talk about FinTech and itsapplication as Salesforce, and
we'd love if anybody couldlisten.
Also, I'm at the airport, soI'm going to be on mute most of
the time.

Josh Matthews (01:13):
All right, well, safe travels to you, fred.
We also have Peter Ganza.
Go ahead, pete, Hello everybody, peter Ganza.

Caller (01:19):
I'm an alumni and turned to the ecosystem and,
long story short, I'm now theEpic Change Whisperer.
I'm helping partners do betteron the Epic Change and go to
markets, and I met Josh lastweek for the first time and I
have to say he's exactly what Ipictured a gentle giant.

Vanessa Grant (01:37):
As good as advertised.

Josh Matthews (01:39):
That's so kind of you.
I never viewed myself quite agiant.
I'm 6'1".
I know guys are a lot biggerthan me.

Caller (01:47):
Well, look at the picture.
Look at the picture and it'spretty clear.

Josh Matthews (01:50):
Yeah, okay.
Well, thank you, peter, and itwas fantastic meeting you too.
I'm looking at for those whoare listening to the podcast and
have never visited our liveshow here on X I'm just going to
start saying X instead ofTwitter from now on who have
never come to our live programon X, which is every other
Wednesday at 5.30.

(02:11):
Like I'm looking here, I seeVanessa, fred and I have never
met in person, but we will,because Fred and I are both
going to be at a fantastic event, Probably the day that this
podcast is actually released, onthe 13th of September at 2.30.
You can register to meet me,fred, vanessa and a host of

(02:34):
other fantastic folks, includingJonathan Fox from his YouTube
channel.
We've got folks from LadiesBeeArchitect who are going to be
there and other content creators.
It's just two blocks north andif you want to register for this
event, just go to atthegJoshForce on Twitter.
That's my handle, and if youjust scroll down, you'll see two

(02:54):
opportunities to connect withme and also with Fred and
Vanessa, and they include a livebroadcast of this program from
the Marketing Home Tent at thePink Elephant Alibi Restaurant
sponsored by Sir Conte.
That's on Thursday at 2.30.
And then the content creatorsmeet up, which is going to be at

(03:14):
2.30 on Wednesday in SanFrancisco.
So looking forward to gettingto meet a lot of you there.
So we've just finished our firstpart, one which was hopefully
you listened to it it was lastweek where we had Janet Elliott
on board.
Janet is a fantastic SalesforceMVP.
She's involved in lots ofdifferent groups.

(03:34):
She helps mentor people who aregoing to be doing speeches and
presentations in the Salesforceecosystem, so definitely listen
to that.
And then Vanessa, just so youknow, just a quick recap.
She's got four sessions atDreamforce.
So if you're listening to thisright now, and it's Wednesday
the 13th, you still have achance to see her live in San

(03:56):
Francisco on Thursday, live fromthe Cow Palace.
I was wanting to say that.

Vanessa Grant (04:02):
So I'm going to be very nervous with four
sessions.
I'm very open about how scaredI get when I'm presenting in
front of people.
For, like, I'm usually fine onhere, I'm fine in Zoom
presentations, but you throwlike a PowerPoint presentation
behind me on a stage and like Ilose my mind.
So if you see me just wanderingaround, lost, you know, maybe
get me a beer or something.
Cup of coffee.

Josh Matthews (04:23):
A beer and a hug .
How about that?

Vanessa Grant (04:25):
That sounds good .

Josh Matthews (04:26):
Okay, you got it .
Well, I'm giving out free hugsto Vanessa all week at
Dreamforce and I think you'regoing to do just great.
I know that because I've seenyou speak multiple times and you
do a fantastic job, so can.

Fred (04:36):
I say one thing, just if you can listen you can't get
enough of Vanessa.
She's actually a guest onBegging, on Disruption.
We're recording tomorrowafternoon and on that episode is
going to drop for Thursdayafter the part one of this drop.
So the Thursday beforeDreamforce.
So you can't get enough ofVanessa before Dreamforce.
Please tune into that episode.

Josh Matthews (04:58):
I'm telling you, vanessa, have you ever thought
about, you know, having somemerchandise Right, like for real
?

Vanessa Grant (05:06):
It's funny because, like, going into this,
you know kind of sales force,I'm going to cringe as I say,
like you know, influencerthought leadership, like I can't
say that without a weird voice,but like it's, there's always
that concern that people aregoing to get sick of me, and I
actually had somebody say youjust never know how deep that
ocean is, and so I'm just goingto keep going until people stop

(05:29):
listening.

Josh Matthews (05:29):
Yeah, I don't think people are going to stop
listening to you, Vanessa, atall.
Right, you guys.
Yeah, oh, look at everybody'sbeing thrown up some smiley
faces for you.
Yeah, you're a true gem.
And at real quick, just tobacktrack real quick, like I'm
looking at all these folks hereand it's like, well, okay, jesse

(05:50):
and Steven they're both fromthe salesforcerecretercom, which
is the company I run, and theseguys are fantastic.
You know members.
Steven's the director ofrecruiting, jesse's a senior
recruiter on our team.
See, casey I see Casey all thetime because we live together.
I see Stephanie, who has been,I think that on this show,

(06:10):
stephanie, you might be rightthere with Vanessa as a longest
listener and contributor.
So thank you for being on theprogram.
It was an experience last yearto witness you sort of trying to
break into the ecosystem,landing your first job, getting
that under your belt, gainingeven more skin, getting your
second job, getting even moreincome and even greater

(06:32):
responsibility.
So I always love to see yourface here on the show and if you
want to pipe up and share, justraise your hand.
We'll add you to the panel here.
Okay, we're going to go aheadand jump into some listener mail
.
Listener mail Speedy delivery.
So, vanessa, I know that youhad some questions shared, but

(06:54):
let's quickly just announce thatif anyone's listening to the
live show that would like tocome on the stage and ask a
question, just raise your hand,we'll bring you up.
Also, if you're a little bitbashful and shy and I get it
this is a career show, whichmeans that we not only talk
about how to advance your careerand do better in the job that
you have, but maybe how to leavethe job that you hate and go
get a better job, and so, ifthat's the case, you might want

(07:17):
to stay a little bit anonymous,in which case you can DM Vanessa
right here on Twitter.
Sorry, X, I promised I'd say X.
Okay, on X.
You can DM Vanessa on X.
Ask her the question.
She'll read it aloud and wewill do our best to give you the
best response.
So let's hear it.
Vanessa, that's a question thatwe've got this week.

Vanessa Grant (07:38):
So the first question is what are your
thoughts on the open to workring on LinkedIn profile picture
?
I've always been worried thatit might look a little desperate
or unattractive to anypotential employers or
recruiters.
Am I overthinking it?

Josh Matthews (07:51):
Yeah, you want me to go first on this.

Vanessa Grant (07:54):
I think yours is the response I'd want to hear
on this one.

Josh Matthews (07:57):
Yeah, I don't like them.
I don't really like them thatmuch.
Look, if you're brand new in ahigh and let's just say,
nevermind Salesforce if you'rebrand new, it's totally cool to
put that up.
If you're in a sector whereidentifying top candidates is
very, very difficult, you maywant to put that up.

(08:19):
But if you're at in a seniorrole, maybe you're not a manager
or director, but you're anexperienced, talented
professional I think it sendsthe wrong message.
It really does.
It's like going to a party andpeople wearing hats that say I'm

(08:40):
free, I'm available, I'm single.
It's just a little bit tackyand it takes away some of the
mystery.
So I'm not saying that I thinkit's not a bad idea.
I think LinkedIn made a goodmove to do that, in particular
for certain industries.
But once we get to a certainlevel in our career, I would
tell any manager who comes to mefor a consultation who's

(09:01):
looking for a new opportunity toget rid of it, because then it
just begs the question whyaren't you working?
There are legitimate reasons tonot be working.
The economy tank that was lasthired, last on first gone.
We went through a merger, 30%of staff was let go.

(09:24):
But or I'm brand new.
I'm looking for my first gig.
Those are all totally cool, butGod, if you got fired for
performance, something like that, definitely don't do that.
I'm not saying be dishonest.
Absolutely in no way would Iever encourage dishonesty in the

(09:45):
job acquisition space.
Never do that.
Then I'll ruin your careerfaster than anything.
But that level of transparencyin a first meet I don't
recommend it.
What about you, vanessa?
What do you think?

Vanessa Grant (10:00):
I don't have any strong opinions about the open
to work thing, but I'm also notan HR recruiting and from when
I've been a hiring manager thatdidn't exist.
So I'm going to stay silent onthis one.

Josh Matthews (10:12):
Okay, look, it's different.
It's different if you're highand we'll get to you in just one
second, fred.
It's really different if you'rea recruiter versus maybe just a
hiring manager.
Not, I don't mean just a hiringmanager, but a hiring manager.
So if you're looking for thebest of the best of the best,
when we place people, almostalways they're already working,

(10:33):
they have jobs, they havecareers, they weren't let go.
Now, that isn't to say thatpeople who are looking for work,
that there's anything wrongwith them.
By no means does it imply that.
But it does imply that there'sgoing to be more things wrong
with people who've got that ringon than people who don't.
So it's just a.

(10:55):
When we're de-risking thehiring process, we want to know
someone is working, that peoplelike them, that they can
communicate, they know how toperform their job
responsibilities, and people whoare still employed are
demonstrating that automaticallyby continuing to be employed.

(11:16):
But again things happen.
I've lost a job before.
It's no fun, it puts you, youknow, just kind of put your back
against the wall.
You want to do everything youcan to try and acquire a new
role quickly.
But if you're at any kind ofsenior level, in other words, if
you've got three or more yearsof experience in the industry
that you're working in.
I don't know.
I don't think it's a good lookand I do think it kind of comes

(11:39):
off.
It doesn't smack of desperationbut it triggers something in
the brain that reminds you ofdesperation.
Does that make sense?
I'm kind of curious what youthink here, guys.

Vanessa Grant (11:50):
Makes sense to me, Fred.

Fred (11:52):
Yeah, no, it makes no sense to me.
You cover through what I wasgoing to say.
The other point I was going tomake is you know and listeners
probably have similarexperiences you know recruiters
are going to reach out, whetheror not that's on your profile or
not.
You know, and I'm always opento having those conversations,
even when I'm happy you knowsomewhere.

(12:13):
You know those are goodconnections to me.
The other point I was going tomake is this, which is LinkedIn
does have and, josh, you'reprobably a better expert on it
than I am lots of other settingsthat you can use to encourage
recruiters to reach out to youor anyone to reach out to you,
including having an open profile.
That, I think, is significantlymore effective than that green

(12:35):
photo frame.

Josh Matthews (12:37):
Yeah, you know, you don't want to trash your
beautiful face with a green ring, the green ring of, you know,
joblessness right.

Fred (12:46):
That's only for people like you that have attractive
faces.
Whatever I can do to cover myface is a what is it?

Josh Matthews (12:52):
What are you talking about, man?
Oh my God, you're this handsomemasculine dude Like.
I don't know what you'retalking about.
Okay, peter, go ahead.

Caller (13:04):
Well, I mean I don't disagree with anything that was
just said.
I feel like it's not as big ofa deal, like it's not a.
Fred just said it's not reallylike a setting.
It's not really going to change.
You know anything in terms of abig impact on, let's say, the
algorithm?
But the others do make theimpact.
You know where the recruiterssee my stuff or that I'm looking

(13:27):
for.
You know open profile there's awhole bunch of.
There's a couple of actualsettings that you need to have
enabled.
Open to work ring thing Ihonestly I don't care.
I really don't think it's a bigdeal.
What's in the person's profileis what matters.
But just my opinion.

Josh Matthews (13:47):
Yeah, it does.
But again, we're talking aboutfirst impressions, right.
So you know, like that's all.
I'm not saying I wouldn't hiresomeone because they had the
ring on it far from it, right.
I mean, we've placed peoplewho've got the green ring or
blue ring, purple ring, whatevercolor it is.
But you're right, there aresettings both you guys shared.
There are settings where youcan share that you're open to

(14:11):
recruiters, but it somehowprotects your Anyone from the
company that you work at fromseeing it, if that makes sense,
okay.
The other thing that you can doto be found more because this
is about trying to be found,right?
So, setting when mostrecruiters who are using
LinkedIn as their key source ofyou know, as their key platform

(14:33):
for sourcing talent, they'regoing to find you if your
profile is full, if you havehashtags in your about section,
if you have a compelling minielevator pitch description of
what you do, instead of likeSalesforce administrator, right,
nothing wrong with that, but itdoesn't really say how you

(14:55):
solve a company's problem.
So, having a good tagline,having a good photo and checking
all of your settings and havinga nice, you know, robust
description of youraccomplishments we talk about
this almost every week Get youraccomplishments in there right,
you'll still be found byrecruiters.
Now, if you are a contractor,I'll say maybe.

(15:18):
I don't agree with anythingI've said if you're a contractor
.
If you're a contractor, I don'tsee any issue with that ring,
because that means you're readyto work and you don't need to
give two or three or four weeksnotice.
And if someone needs like we'vegot a new client, they need two
developers.
Might as well pitch this.
By the way, you can check outthe salesforcerecretercom
forward, slash j-o-b and findsome of our open positions.

(15:39):
A lot of them get filled firstbefore we even get it posted,
and so we've got a couple newones for a couple developers to
work on a service cloud projectfor the next three months.
Now, if we didn't havecandidates that are ready to go
and we do, but if we didn't Ithink as a recruiter I'd be
looking for those people whohave that open ring and are
comfortable with contractingbecause they're going to be

(16:01):
ready to rock tomorrow, andoftentimes that's what is
demanded by the client.
They need someone fast.
So that's the only caveat I putin there.

Caller (16:13):
FYI for anybody who wants to find that I was just
poking around.
It's actually not in thesettings.
You have to go to your profileand click on the open to button
and then finding a new job andthen you'll see all the settings
in there.
So profile open to first buttonis finding a new job.
That's where all the settingsare.

Josh Matthews (16:33):
Yeah, cool.
All right, I think we've got atleast one or two other
questions, right?

Vanessa Grant (16:39):
We do.
We actually have three morequestions.
I'm not sure how many we'll getto, but Okay.
So can you cover how people canbuild a brand of value on
LinkedIn and why it's importantfor their career?

Josh Matthews (16:53):
Yeah, I'll tell you what I'm going.
To make it real easy, go backtwo episodes on our podcast and
listen to the one with JordanNelson, and that gets answered
ad nauseam.
Because Jordan Nelson has, atthe time of the recording,
86,000 LinkedIn followers andhis career has blossomed.

(17:13):
Some of it is because he's justa young, smart, energetic,
bright, kind person, right, butthat has certainly been
magnified through the continualwork that he does on LinkedIn
and getting regular posts.
So I mean that's my shortanswer.
But why don't you guys diveinto some of the other stuff if
you'd like to cover it for alittle bit longer?

Vanessa Grant (17:35):
Yeah, I mean, for me, I think I'm starting to
get to the point in my careerwhere I almost kind of get angry
when I see folks just kind ofposting what sounds like chat,
gbt, word salad, and so I don'tfind value when folks are not
being authentic and don't reallyhave a viewpoint.

(17:59):
Even kind of referencing back tothe last episode with Janet,
but I think it's important tofocus on what you are passionate
about and besides being aperson with a viewpoint and
sharing your opinions, I thinkit's also, I know, when I

(18:19):
started my kind of LinkedInbranding journey, I wasn't super
comfortable necessarily being acontent creator, and so I
initially started calling myselflike a content amplifier, where
if there were other contentcreators that I resonated with
that had, I thought, reallyimportant things to say by

(18:41):
helping amplify their voices.
Initially it helped build mybrand as well, where it was like
I was aligning myself withpeople who had similar
viewpoints and I sort of starteddeveloping my own voice on
LinkedIn from there.
But for me, I mean it was alsofinding a thing that people were
interested in hearing about.

(19:01):
For me, that ended up beingSalesforce Business Analysis,
where I don't know that therewere a lot of people in the
ecosystem talking about it andit was something that I was
passionate about and there wasan audience for it, and that's
kind of how I started buildingup my things, initially just

(19:22):
amplifying other folks andsharing my learning journey.
So when I was at the beginningof it, anytime I heard something
cool and new, sharing that andthen also developing my own
viewpoint on things as I gainmore experience.

Josh Matthews (19:37):
You're talking about something we've talked
about a lot, right, which issort of the little stages that
you go through.
First you like stuff onLinkedIn right.
Then you comment on it right,or share it, and then you start
writing your own stuff and, likeI said in the last episode,
it's okay to not be the bestwriter in the world when you're

(20:00):
starting out.
It's okay.
This is when you're going tostart learning what works and
what doesn't.
Should I include an emoji onthe top line?
Should I tag people so thatthey can click on it, and this
kind of stuff.
So it's just a learning process.
But you brought up somethingreally cool.
You brought up something reallycritical, which is, if you just

(20:20):
sound like ChadGPT gibberish,you're just adding to the noise
God knows, there's enough noiseout there in the ecosystem,
right.
And I'm not even talking aboutopinions, I'm just talking about
regurgitation of the same stuffthat everybody says all the
time, and it can be a little bitboring after a while and it

(20:40):
makes it harder to find the realcontent that's going to
actually elevate and motivateyou and get your career pointed
in the right direction.
Now, one thing I did want toshare, vanessa, because you just
brought up business analysts.
We recently just got an earlyrelease of the Salesforce Talent
Ecosystem Report for 2022 from10K.

(21:04):
Okay, and 10K advises that ifyou guys go back about two,
three months, you'll see we hada fantastic session with Kristin
Languas from 10K she's ChiefPeople Officer so she reached
out, asked us to go ahead andjust share that.
This is a report I like to readevery year.
This is the fifth year thatthey've come out and business

(21:27):
analysts saw the highest globalsupply growth 34% year over year
and the highest demand growththat's 55% year over year,
suggesting that administratorsare sort of leveling up into
more specialized roles, and I'mreading that right from this
report.
Now, if we're lucky and I thinkwe will be we'll get Kristin
back on the show here and maybein a month or so and we can go

(21:50):
into great detail about thisreport, because it is about the
Talent Ecosystem and Salesforceand, after all, that's what we
talk about.
But, vanessa, you've beenreally critical and kind of, I
think, at the forefront of someof the reason why the business
analyst sector is growing somuch, including contributing to

(22:10):
the certification and what thatshould look like, as well as
hosting multiple sessions acrossthe country and across the
globe really about BA.
So thanks for doing that,because you're definitely making
a difference.

Vanessa Grant (22:24):
Yeah, and with AI kind of coming at us fast and
furious in the future, there'sa real importance to and value
in keeping up with thosebusiness analysis skills,
because really, if you throw AIon something without having

(22:45):
those business analysisdocumentation, your business
processes documented, your dataclean, without having that
business analysis foundation,your AI is not going to give you
the results that you want.
And so a big part of my sessionat Dreamforce is how can you
leverage those BA skills so thatyou can set your org up for

(23:06):
success when AI is inevitablygoing to come in, and how do you
increase your productivity?

Josh Matthews (23:13):
Yeah, that's a real good point.
I was just reading a reportthis morning that chat, you know
, chat GPT, what is it?
Usership, I don't even know isdown right, like it's actually
starting to wane off.
People like mess around with itand then kind of say goodbye or
switch to a different AIplatform.
But you got to remembereverybody, this is pulling from
the internet.

(23:33):
Okay, that's what it's pullingfrom.
It's not pulling from someone'sgenius mind, it's just pulling
from the genius minds and theungenius minds alike that have
flooded the internet.
And so when you type in a verybasic prompt, you know, hey,
tell me about blank.
It might be very thorough, butyou're getting a combination of
genius people and not so geniuspeople that are developing that

(23:54):
information.
It's not necessarily fresh,it's not necessarily new, and
the way that it's written is notgoing to be in your voice
unless you spend, you know,three or four days really
coaxing your AI, your chat GPTpersonas to deliver the
communication in the way thatyour voice actually is.
This is not something I've doneyet, by the way, so I can't

(24:15):
speak too much about it, butyou've got a great point about
AI, noise, all of these things.
I'm a big fan of dividing theherd.
It's okay, you know, don't?
You don't have to be Lady Gagaand wear a meat suit to the
Grammys, right, and you don'thave to.
You don't have to be HowardStern, shock, shock.

(24:36):
But there's nothing wrong withdividing the herd a little bit
and taking a strong perspectiveon something and writing about
it, and even if it's unpopular,I got to tell you it's kind of
fun, right, it's kind of fun.
I say a lot of unpopular thingsand actually I won't say that
they're unpopular, I'll say thatthey're.
You know how would I put it?
Yeah, maybe it's unpopular,Maybe it's just an unpopular way

(24:58):
to talk about a thing, butstill a good idea.
Go ahead, peter.

Caller (25:02):
I was just going to say Vanessa nailed it when she said
at the beginning be authentic,right, if you look at, let's say

(25:23):
, chat GPT, it stopped lookingat stuff like two years ago
almost, or something like thatyeah, it's 2021.
It's not ingesting anythinganymore, right, so keep that in
mind.

Josh Matthews (25:37):
Good points, go ahead, fred.

Fred (25:39):
Sure, I think I go back to the original question and
just respond with a why?
Nobody really kind ofquestioned why do you want to
become a LinkedIn influencer,linkedin content creator?
What's the objective?
And I think if you start byreally defining what it is
you're trying to get out of it,are you looking to create a

(25:59):
platform or are you looking toset up a product, to be an
education force?
Are you looking for a new jobor are you looking to, you know,
be invited for speakingopportunities?
Going back to the last show,and then I think that'll help
you craft what you want to do.
And the answer can be everybodydoesn't need to be a LinkedIn
influencer.
So I'd probably just start bychallenging the original premise

(26:22):
.
Going back on you guys.

Vanessa Grant (26:26):
Yeah, I mean, I don't know that it's necessarily
about being an influencer, somuch as does your LinkedIn.
Does your social media have aperspective?
Can we get a gauge of what your, where your passion lies?
I mean, and these are thingsthat I think that the people
talk about during theirinterviews.
Even so, what is your voice,what is your perspective and

(26:49):
what are the things that youwant to be known for?
I did a session in Florida dreamand Josh was there, but we
started off with you know whatare the, you know what's the the
three things that you wantsomebody to know about you when
they leave the room.
I mean, they might not rememberyour name, but if you know, for
you know Larry turned intoCheesecake Larry.
Larry's in the audience, butyou know, I'll always remember

(27:12):
Cheesecake Larry, like he ismemorable now to me and and I
don't know that he meant that tobe part of his brand, but it
worked out for him.
You know, everybody knows whoLarry is now and so it's.
It's not necessarily.
You know the.
I think the you know wanting tobe an influencer so much as what
do you want people to leaveremembering?

(27:34):
Do you want them to rememberthat you're looking for a job.
Do you want them to rememberthat you're looking for the
specific job?
Do you want them to rememberthat you're passionate about
flows?
I think those are all thingsthat are that are important to
make sure that you, you havesome continuity in your, in your
social media so that when, whenan opportunity arises, they
think of you.
And a lot of my opportunitiesin my career have come up

(27:57):
because people have gone.
Business analysis oh, you knowwhat I should call Vanessa, or
speaking sessions I should callJanet.

Josh Matthews (28:04):
Yeah, these are.
These are fantastic points, andI love what you said, fred,
about.
Well, do you even want to be aninfluencer?
Like, why?
Like what's the benefit?
And the reality is is I wouldsay that the people that I know
in the ecosystem that are makingthe most money, like literally

(28:25):
like dockets and dockets,buckets of dockets, okay, tons
of money Like they're notinfluencers.
They're hard workers who makegood decisions, right.
But if you're trying to get,like land your first job, or you
know, or you just find it fun,like I love, like, I'll give you
an example.
This community has meant so muchto me in so many ways.

(28:47):
You know, when I get on thisshow and I look and, by the way,
guys, you can go to Twitterright now.
I just posted I didn't tag itbecause I couldn't do it because
we're doing this live show, butI threw up a picture of me,
peter Gansa and Eric Dressfield,and then I threw up a picture
of me and Cheesecake Larry Leealso.
So if you just go to my profileat the Josh Force right now,

(29:08):
you'll see us hanging out atLife Sciences Dreaming, but it's
meant so much for me.
You know, casey and I moved3,000 miles away from home.
We have some friends here, butvery few because you know we
don't have kids in school hereand you know we work from home
and that whole thing and youknow, and we don't golf.
So like we spend, or I'll justspeak for myself I spend the

(29:31):
majority of my time and my mysort of extroverted energy at
work, and if it's not at work,it's with people that I'm
working with, and if it's not atwork, it's with people who are
somehow involved in the workthat we do, right, whether I'm
shooting the breeze with Peteror Fred or catching up with
Vanessa and or, or you know,like Stephen and I on my team we

(29:51):
had a really nice chit chatyesterday and Jesse and I will
have nice chit chats Like thisis where most of my friendships
and relationships are that I'mexperiencing now, other than you
know, my crew of dudes backhome, you know, in Portland.
So you can get a lot of supportin these communities and if
you're out there trying to makeconnections, meet people, go to

(30:12):
these events and makeconnections.
It's a real thing, like it'sone thing to go to a go to a,
you know, say like a Tahoe dream, and or a Florida dream and or
a Midwest, midwest dream and orsomething like that, and it's
your first time and maybe youknow someone right.
And then when you go the secondtime and you know 15 people
right and you go you know twoyears later and you know pretty
much everybody Like.

(30:34):
So that's a there's.
There's something reallyspecial and and friendly and
supportive about that.
So it makes sense to do it.
But just know what your reasonsare.
What's the why?

Vanessa Grant (30:43):
To Fred's point and actually I just want to
point out I just throw a linkonto our show but Tristan
Lombard, who's been, I would say, really critical in my journey
just as far as you know how to,how to brand myself and how to
do speaking steps sessions,tristan, you know, is hashtag
stage mom for me has a greatarticle about how to

(31:05):
holistically engage folks insocial media and it's on talk
base.
I threw the link on Twitter,but definitely worth checking
out and definitely, I would say,give him a follow if, if you're
interested in diving into thislittle bit more.

Josh Matthews (31:24):
That's awesome and thanks for joining us here
today.
Tristan, by all means, justraise your hand and bring it up
on the stage if you'd like toshare some of your thoughts
about this question.
What's the next one, Vanessa?

Vanessa Grant (31:36):
The next one is I'd love to hear your opinion or
insight on deciding to pursueeither a more technical route in
the ecosystem or a morefunctional route.

Josh Matthews (31:46):
Yeah, that's just a behavioral personality
question.
Like you are, you're not Okay,so I'll give you a quick example
.
The majority of men areinterested in things.
This is proven.
So you know you can.
I'm doing that thing that wejust talked about in the last
show on I Like, so you candissent, but it's a fact, so

(32:09):
just go over it, okay.
So men tend to be moreinterested in things, and that's
why most engineers are men,right, and women tend to be more
focused on people andrelationships.
I'm generalizing here, right, Ilike things.
I'm a little bit of a gadgethead, but I'm way more
interested in people and that'swhy I work in an HR you know,

(32:31):
recruiting function, which is,you know, a very it's all people
, it's all it is.
It's barely things.
I mean I've got a couple ofthings I'm holding on to a phone
right now.
I've got a podcast, a littlebox that I researched for days
and finally bought.
You know some kind of intothings, but but I'm mostly
interested in people, so you gotto figure out which one you are
.
One of them is going to requireyou to talk more to other

(32:53):
people and that means thatyou're going to have to have to
be successful to be competitive,a pension for those types of
activities right?
Growing up, my best friend hewas the son of one of the lead
engineers on the Hubblespacecraft and I remember
driving down to his how I saydriving I rode my bike.

(33:13):
You know he lives about sixmiles away.
I rode my bike down to hishouse in high school and he's
got this new remote control car.
I'm like, oh, my God, man, thatis so cool, where do you get
that?
He's like oh, I made it.
I was like what do you mean sowell, I had some spare balsa
wood lying around and my dad hadthis old transistor radio, so I
made a remote control car.

(33:33):
He's an engineering mindset,he's interested in things and he
eventually became a mechanicalengineer and then after that
moved on to become achiropractor.
Just, still, it's peopleoriented, but it's still
mechanical thing movement inyour back, okay.
So that's a really good exampleof someone who would be more
technical versus someone like,for instance, me or Vanessa, you

(33:56):
know, doing her BA work.
Right, it's functional.
You're talking to people andyou're trying to understand them
and help them to feelcomfortable and gain trust so
that you can get the right kindof information out of them,
because without the trust, theinformation is bad.
It's like having a bug in yourdata, right?
So a lot of what I do, a lot ofwhat Vanessa does, a lot of

(34:19):
what Steven does, a lot of whatJesse does, is just trying to
debug the information so thatwe're getting the real clarity
there.
So that's kind of what I think.
I guess the person who's askingthis question, if they're not
certain themselves, if they'rethinking and I get it, if you're
new, oh my God, I'm trying tolike point my rocket ship to the
moon.

(34:39):
You know either the moon or theMercury, and I'm not sure which
direction to point it to.
You know I would.
I would just say, like, askyourself, what are you into?
Okay, like, are you into peopleor are you into stuff?
And you can be everyone's onthe spectrum somewhere, but
where does it lean?
And I'd also say, like, ifyou're, in fact, I had a

(34:59):
conversation with someone theother day.
She's fantastic.
She's also a dream andpresenter.
I think she's a fantasticperson and we were talking about
a couple of her family membersand they're on a track for their
PD one both of them and hadsome questions about that as a
career and the first thing I didis like well, like, how are

(35:20):
they technical?
Yeah, they both.
You know they come from a longline of engineers.
Okay, so that's a genetic traitthat can be passed on, right?
So look at your family.
If you don't know yourself yet,look at your parents, look at
your family members, and thenlook at your room what's in it?
Look at your books what arethey about?
Look at your YouTube feeds whatare they about?

(35:40):
Right?

Vanessa Grant (35:42):
Yeah, and actually I'll second the YouTube
feeds and webinars and thingsFor me.
I discovered my route by seeingpeople that were in functional
roles and I found myselfagreeing with them and kind of
almost kind of white knucklingmy chair because I was so into
what they were saying.
So find people that are talkingabout those paths and see which
one resonates with you more.

Josh Matthews (36:04):
Exactly, and you might eventually marry it right
, like you might find thatyou're somewhere in the middle.
Well, welcome to the solutionarchitect role, right, or
welcome to the lead consultantrole, because those are really
good examples, I think, of anice balance between the two.
Peter, you've got your handraised, let's hear it.

Caller (36:24):
Yeah, a great topic.
I love this question and Ithink it really comes down to
having a starting point.
A lot of people make this morecomplicated.
I'm going to pick a path andI'm going to be stuck there.
You're not going to do that,right?
If I think for myself, this isjust from experience, right?
25 years ago I got sick ofbuilding computers, which I

(36:46):
thought was cool at the time,and I was good and I made a lot
of money in my basement, right,and I started a tech support job
at Symantec.
I had no idea how techcompanies worked.
I was shocked and surprised.
I stumbled my way through.
I did great at tech support.
I saw these people that wouldcome in late, were always

(37:06):
dressed down, were alwayssmiling, frilly and they were
always bringing cool stuff and Ithought what do those folks do?
Because that's the job for me.
I'm obviously just joking,right, but it turns out they
were product managers.
I pivoted to product management.
That was cool, that wasexciting, right?
I got tired of arguing withdevelopers about how many pixels

(37:26):
the blue button should be andwhere it should be placed, and
requirements and traceability,and I grew into more of the
exterior role and I pivoted tostrategic marketing, competitive
intelligence, product marketing, and now I can say I'm a
marketer.
If you asked me 25 years ago ifI would ever imagine me saying

(37:47):
I was a marketer never right.
But I had my starting point andthat was I liked computers, so
I was selling them, and that Ijust started a tech support job
and figured it out as I wentright.
I didn't have any, I didn'tknow where my destination would
be.
I still don't.
But you're good at somethingand you get in and do it and

(38:10):
you'll.
You'll find your way right.
Just be good at your job, dothe work, be authentic, network,
and where you end up is whereyou end up.

Josh Matthews (38:22):
That's a great story, peter, and you know I'll
tell you I had sort of thisweird little blip in my career.
I was, you know, I didn't havemy college degree yet.
I was selling cars for Subaruout in Portland, Oregon.
I wanted to get into an officejob.
I was pulling 12-hour shifts,standing out in the rain,

(38:43):
getting a sore back, talking topeople who didn't want to talk
to me, and it wasn't a lot offun.
To be honest.
I was still successful at it,but it wasn't a lot of fun.
And I took a look at, you know,becoming network engineer and
network admin and I looked atthis ITT program and when I went
down there and I looked aroundand I saw what they were doing,
I mean it took all of about fourseconds until my eyes glazed

(39:05):
over and I felt like going tosleep Because you get technical
like that and start puttinggraphs and crap like that in
front of me.
I'm just like dude.
This is let me give this to myfriend, tom, who builds his own
you know BalsaWood remotecontrols, control cars out of
BalsaWood Like forget it.
So if you look at something andit makes you tired, that's not

(39:26):
the job for you.
Okay, you got it.
And we've got other shows thatwe talk about introverts and
extroverts and that kind ofthing.
But that's not the same thingas being technical or
non-technical.
But if something makes youtired, if it makes you exhausted
, it ain't for you guy or gal,it just ain't right.
But if something gives youenergy, if you like you know

(39:48):
both for Peter and Vanessa'sstory you start latching.
Oh, these are the people I like, you know what are they doing?
Well, now you've got a realinterest.
It's a natural interest andyou're going to spend a lot more
time on it, right, like I wasan art major, guys, by the way.
Okay, so, like, not technical atall, not business-y, like at

(40:08):
all.
And you're like, why did I doit?
Because it was fun for me.
I used to just draw picturesfrom time I was little, and
because it was fun for me, I didit a lot and I got good.
Now I can draw and paint and dosculptures and all that stuff
and it's a lot of fun.
In case you can do it too,fantastic artist, right.
But I did that stuff because itwas fun for me and I spent time
and that's why I got good at it.

(40:30):
So if you pick something thatyou want to get good at, but
it's not interesting enough.
Exciting enough, it doesn'tlike.
It doesn't just make you wantto do it for free.
Right, that's really what thequestion is Like, do you?
Would you do this stuff forfree just because it's fun?
And if the answer is no, maybeyou should look at other
opportunities.
So that's all.
I'll just leave it at that.
All right, vanessa?
Well, I know we've got onequestion from Ibrahim, who's, I

(40:53):
think, a first-time listenerhere, but do we have any others
from other?

Vanessa Grant (40:58):
We do.
I also want to note that wewere recently joined by Tristan,
so I would love to introduceTristan.

Josh Matthews (41:06):
Let's do it, hey Tristan.

Caller (41:08):
Hello, hello.
I want to say thank you so muchfor holding this space for
others.
I think it's so important.
Originally, vanessa was like doyou want to share some things
about building a brand of value?
So, but I know thatconversation is to as kind of
steered.
One thing I did want to go backto, though, around advancing

(41:30):
your career, just as a quickpoint for anyone is that I know
that oftentimes there is a bigbarrier for people.
They want to contact otherpeople, they want to learn from
them, they want to network, butthey're afraid to reach out.
That resource that Vanessashared.
It's part of a series.
The first part is aroundholistic engagement, and it can
give you all some steps abouthow to reach out to someone who

(41:53):
you don't have a priorrelationship with that you do
want to connect with.
So I would just say that Idon't want to steer the
conversation back and take awayfrom others, but such an amazing
, amazing show.
If anyone ever has anyquestions about career
advancement and or personalbranding to help advance your
career or networking, let meknow.
I'm a stage one person foremost, and I love people.

(42:14):
I would just say.
I would just say not to make asaid D-roll.
I love that, tristan.

Josh Matthews (42:19):
I just saw that on your LinkedIn.
I think that's cool.

Caller (42:22):
It's real.
Thank you, christian, ourruthless major of the
Kardashians, but for any part ofyour delivery team.
But I will just say the onething I will continue to push
back on is this kind of falsedichotomy of technical versus
non-technical.
As a recovering social workerwith 60 plus case that opponents
youth with mental wellnesschallenges that fell into tech
and a highly, highly technicalproduct, I don't believe in

(42:44):
technical versus non-technicaland I think the disparity there
is a lack of curiosity to learn,and so I just always encourage
people get out of that falsedichotomy.
If you're curious, there is anbarrier.
It's something that I think alot of people put in place to
create hierarchies and protectthemselves.
It's not needed.
It's not needed, that's all.

Josh Matthews (43:04):
That's an interesting perspective, tristan
, and I value that.
I thank you for bringing thatviewpoint on here.
For sure.
I don't think it's an if this,if this, then that, or one or
the other I agree.
But I do think that the sciencesays that there's a spectrum
here right of ability, thousandpercent.
And it's just the way your brainworks.
It doesn't.

(43:24):
I could probably go learn to bea network engineer.
I'd just be really bored andtired and probably fall asleep
on the job.
Right, it doesn't mean I can'tdo it, it's just yeah, yeah.

Vanessa Grant (43:37):
And you know, I would say when I was, I got
stuck at a certain point in mycareer.
It was around 2019.
I was a docusign consultant andI wasn't sure that there was a
place for me in the Salesforceecosystem and I did ask myself
that question am I technicalenough for this?
And I think that there may be aperspective of what the word

(43:58):
technical means.
And just because I do have moreof a functional role, it
doesn't mean that I'm nottechnical.
I am technical.
I speak to technical peopleevery day.
It was just a matter of I didsee that kind of invisible
barrier initially and until Idiscovered business analysis and
realized that I had a place onthese very, very technical
projects, that I realized thatyou know, I guess that the

(44:19):
technology was in me all along.

Caller (44:21):
We love to hear it Proud of you.

Josh Matthews (44:24):
Yeah, it's so cool.
And you know what, probably themost successful people that I
know, in this ecosystem anyway,are both right to Tristan's
point.
The folks who can communicatewith others are curious about
what other people think and Idon't mean think about them, I
just mean their thoughts, right,and what their goals are and

(44:47):
then can use that information tohelp create technical solutions
and be a real guide to them, areal voice to them.
You know they do very, verywell.
In fact I had a guy come in tointerview this was back in the
Robert Half Days, early days I'mtalking like 2005 maybe and

(45:08):
this young guy came in, adamUrie.
Adam came in and interviewed tobe a sort of a junior developer
.
Now this guy, if I'm recallinghe was second in his class from
Rensselaer and very, very greatcomputer science program, very,
very smart, funny as shit, likemade me laugh so hard, right,

(45:30):
and after about half an hour Iwas like why don't you be a
recruiter man?
Like I'd hire you.
I'd hire you, like why don'tyou come work here?
Anyway, he did, he hired himand he was great and he didn't
last very long, right, he waslike three, four months.
And then eventually he's likecan I go work for Fred Meyers,

(45:52):
which got bought by Kroger,which is based in Portland, and
so that's where one of Kroger'sheadquarters is.
So we actually placed I placedone of my employees in one of
our open jobs, which was reallyinteresting, and he was there
for years.
I think he might even still bethere and eventually he found
the perfect role for him, whichtruly married the technical work

(46:12):
that he's doing but it's a lotmore high level versus hands on
right, because the coding gotboring for him.
But he got to work with theCEOs really high level
stakeholders and still figureout these amazing technical
solutions.
So if you're listening, adamand I'm sure you're not high
you're an awesome dude.

(46:32):
But that's just a little story.
I like that kind of sharesSomeone finding he was probably
22, 23 at the time finding hisway and eventually doing so by
trying different things out.
So try, try, try, try, tryagain.

Caller (46:47):
Can I just add one last thing?
Of course I just want to callit the universe doesn't care
about your plans.
And the reason I can say thatconfidently is coming up on 11
years ago I had an orange sizebrain tumor, 38 staples on my
head, and that came out ofnowhere, right?
So the universe doesn't care.
You just got to roll with thepunches and get back on the ball

(47:12):
and keep going, that's it.

Josh Matthews (47:15):
Yeah, your story is truly inspirational and
let's have you on as an actualguest, not just a panelist,
sometime, beater, and you can goahead and share your full story
, because it's truly aremarkable one, and we are also
glad that you're still alive.
So thank you for being here andbeing alive, kicking on the
show.
So, guys, I think we've gotmaybe less than 10 minutes.

(47:36):
Okay, I know we've got aquestion from Ibb Vanessa, do we
have other questions from ouraudience from before?

Caller (47:43):
Yeah, sorry, I was trying to mute.
I just wanted to say thank youfor saving my life, because
everybody on the call andeveryone that listens helps save
my life.
All of the products, services,you've paid taxes, that you
spent money on, all of you havefed this astounding ecosystem
that gave me a second chance atlife.
So thank everybody.

Josh Matthews (48:03):
You're a sweetheart of a guy, peter,
thank you.
Thanks for being on the showand thanks for being alive and
thanks for sharing that.
Okay, vanessa, we're going toknock out a couple more
questions.
What have we got?

Vanessa Grant (48:15):
Okay, so I'm going to whittle this one down
to how wise is it or not wise isit to start your own Salesforce
consulting firm without everactually having a job in the
ecosystem?
This isn't the first time I'veheard this question.
There are a lot of folks thatcome into the ecosystem because

(48:35):
they're looking for thatflexibility of starting their
own firm.
But how wise is it to juststart out the gate that way?

Josh Matthews (48:43):
Yeah, it's not wise at all.
It's one of the dumbest thingssomeone could do.
That's what I think.
I'm not going to hold back.
Don't do it.
That's a dumb move.
If you really want to havefreedom and whatever work off of
your boat part time, you can dothat.
One of the things you can do isgo live overseas where it's
cheap and then go start somelittle e-commerce company,

(49:03):
because there's no reason whyanybody who's listening to this
program can't spend three monthslearning, figuring things out,
doing good research and startingsome sort of e-commerce company
that's going to pay their bills.
You don't need a mentor forthat.
You can get a mentor for that,but you don't need a mentor for
that.
But what you're touching as aSalesforce professional and as a

(49:24):
consultant, is the heart of abusiness, the beating heart of
the business, or the lungs ofthe business.
Without experience, withouthaving had a job, you're going
to learn all of your mistakes atthe cost, and the person who's
going to pay for it is yourclients.
They're the ones that are goingto pay for it.
Then, eventually, that's goingto kick back.

(49:45):
That hot wind that burns yourface is going to kick right back
in your face and burn you andscald you.
It's going to make you reallyugly for other people to want to
bring you on board because youdon't have a good story anymore.
I'll tell you, I've got aclient of mine.
I think the guy's fantastic.
He actually just sold hisbusiness for a very nice profit

(50:06):
and they were clients for years.
And he was young.
He did this all by the time hewas 30.
I think he launched thisbusiness at age 24.
I'm going to say some thingshere that I would say to him
directly and I know I wouldbecause I have in fact said it
to his face.
The reality is, you're like 22,23, 24 years old and then you
just go launch a business.
Yeah, you can do it.

(50:26):
You're going to be limitedbecause you're not going to have
the appropriate mentorship,leadership and modeling behavior
that's necessary to actually becompetitive.
This is the core of it all.
Guys.
It doesn't matter what you do.
What are your competitors doing?
That's your competition.
We are in a Darwinianmeritocracy here in the United

(50:49):
States.
If you are better than otherpeople and other people say
something about that you'regoing to be fine.
You're going to be successful.
That's if you start your ownbusiness.
The reality is is mostbusinesses fail in the first one
to two years.
80% to 90% fail in the firstfive years.
By the way, we're hitting ourfive-year anniversary October

(51:11):
1st, so we're excited about that.
Something like 96% ofbusinesses fail it's 90 to 96%,
I can't remember fail within 10years.
Why did they fail?
Well, there's a lot ofdifferent reasons, but mostly
it's decisions.

(51:31):
Usually, if a business fails,it's because someone didn't make
the right decision at the righttime.
It's as simple as that.
The reality is, you're going tobe competing with people who
had mentors, who know how to doit right, who know how to market
.
They've learned their mistakesfrom others.
You're going to spend years andyears and years you might spend
five years to learn as much infive years.

(51:53):
That might take you a year,year and a half or two years
learning under a mentor.
You're decelerating yoursuccess by not investing early
on to build that rocket ship theright way.
That's what I think.
I think you're a fool to dosomething like that.
If you're going to do that, doit for something that's not
going to screw up someone'scompany.
Go ahead, Fred.

Fred (52:13):
I love everything you said.
I think one thing I guess Iwould ask back to the person.
We don't have a lot of contextin the question.
The assumption you made wasthat they're net-new to the
ecosystem, they're net-new toconsulting, they're net-new to
technology.
I think I put an asterisk inthere that if you came from you
had a successful HubSpotbusiness or a successful Adobe

(52:35):
business that you sold it.
You exited that.
Now you want to try your handat Salesforce.
You're at least coming to thetable, understanding what it's
like to run a consultingbusiness, understanding how
billing works and delivery andall that kind of stuff.
Can you pick up the Salesforcestuff along the way?
Sure, but your point, if thisis all net-new to you, going out

(52:55):
and starting from scratch andnot having a mentor and not kind
of learning, the growth of howthe business works, is a recipe
for failure.

Josh Matthews (53:03):
Yeah, absolutely .
I watched Alex Hermosi OnYouTube the other day.
I don't know if anybody herehas ever heard of him before,
but you can go to acquisitioncomand check him out.
This was about wealth.
This session that he ran isabout 50 minutes.
I spent half my time listeningto him and half my time

(53:23):
wondering how the hell in theworld His legs got so goddamn
giant, because the guy lookslike a powerlifter and he is a.
He's an interesting guy.
He's a young guy.
He was valued around a hundredmillion dollars by the time.
He was 32 years old and so youknow, clearly he's had some
success.
So I thought I'd pay attentionand I did.
And If you watch this video onYouTube and it's probably one of

(53:44):
his most popular videos,because usually, usually it's
the popular ones that getDropped into your feed, but I
would watch this and he talksabout and Felicia is the CEO of
my company, she, she was talkingabout that what this curve was
about, this, this idea of, youknow, uninformed optimism, and
you're like, yeah, I'm going foruninformed optimism.
And then, you know, you kind ofget to a point where you're like

(54:05):
, shit, this is hard, this isreally difficult to do Right now
.
You have Informed pessimism.
You're like I don't know if Iwant to do this.
Okay, now you're facing thedifficulties of the market, or
cash flow problems, or yourmarketing, you know, stopped
working because Google changedtheir algorithms or whatever the
hardship happens to be and thenfrom there you have sort of two

(54:25):
choices.
You can either move into aplace of informed optimism Now
you know what the roadblocks areand like that book that I I
like to mention a lot the 10xprinciple, which is not about
you know, getting 10 times asmuch shit for half.
You know, you know, for a tenthof the effort.
It's about everything that youwant is going to take 10 times

(54:46):
more effort than you actuallythink it's going to take, right,
and so if you can kind of 10x,at that point you won't be one
of the majority of people thatjust crash and burn and lose
their business.
The other thing that you don'tdo is you don't have four or
five or six different businessesAll at once and you know that
are only moderately successful.
You focus all of your energy onto one.

(55:06):
That's why we only playSalesforce people in my company.
I knew if I was going to openup a shop that competed with
Robert Haff, technology and Techsystems and K-Force.
Forget it, man, because I don'thave 500 million dollars to
hire 30,000 people and competewith them.
It's not going to happen.

(55:27):
Right, it was me.
And how can I sort of recyclecandidates if I've got 17
different?
You know, I've got IT engineers, sys admins, tech support,
salesforce people, hubspotpeople, web designers, ui, ux
and on and on BA's, pm's,leadership like, forget it, you
can't do it all Right.
So you got to go niche, got togo specialized and, to Fred's

(55:49):
point, if you were HubSpot Proand you were questioning it,
Well why would you leave HubSpot?
Because you can make amulti-million dollar business
out of that and it's not goingto take you an extra two to five
years of Trying to figure outand learn all of these lessons,
right?
So I love the uninformedoptimism, because I'm one of
those people in fact, all of usare at some point until things

(56:11):
get hard.
But if you've got to know that,you've got to get past that
Informed pessimism to get backto informed optimism and
actually get the thing doneright.
So I I love this question, butI really recommend people
challenge themselves why, why,why, why, why, why, why.
You know everybody's heardabout the five wise, but for

(56:31):
real, like why do you want to dothat?
Because you want money, youknow.

Vanessa Grant (56:36):
I can actually for this particular one.
It was because they've hadtrouble breaking into their
first full-time paid gig inSalesforce.

Josh Matthews (56:42):
Got it.
Okay, so that's a problem.
So if you're, if you can't geta company to hire you full-time,
how are you gonna get a consult, a client to hire you?
So what they've got is an imageslash, marketing slash,
messaging, problem, right,combined with market conditions,
which is gonna make it feelworse, and the way the market is
right now, which is not supershiny, rosy, it's not horrible,

(57:03):
but it's not great, right.
Read the 10k, read the 10kreport on talent and, and you'll
see what's going on.

Fred (57:10):
Okay, so Josh, I love all of it.
I'll just say I'm also a bigAlex fan.
I just finished his book, thehundred million dollar lead book
phenomenal.
If you haven't read it, oh nice, you'll answer.
You'll get the answer to whyhis legs look so big.
He started out as a gym owner.
We then came up with a gymmarketing system.

Josh Matthews (57:29):
Oh well, there you go.
Okay, see, I didn't even know.
I'd never heard of him untillike Thursday night.
Okay, dead air.
Jason, you got your hand raised, let's hear it.

Caller (57:39):
Well, yeah, here, josh, I'm interested in about what
would then be your advice forthat situation.
I have my own thoughts Aboutyou know.
There's the chicken and egg,how?
So it seems like Vanessa forinteresting.
The question correctly, it'show do we get experience if we
don't have experience?
This person's proposed solutionwas start being your own

(58:01):
consultant, but, josh, youquickly Swatted that one down.
So what would be your thoughts?
I have some my own, okay, soyou're absolutely right.

Josh Matthews (58:11):
This is a consult.
This thing requires consulting,right.
It requires some personalizedrecommendation and advice and
some direction, you know, sortof mapping out what they can do
for their career.
So First thing I would do is Iwould engage a really good
resume writer, right.

(58:32):
The reason why people aren'tgetting jobs are Generally three
reasons.
One, your resume and LinkedInprofile aren't attractive enough
to your phone interviewing, oryour ability to write and email
people and convey Convey yourvalue to people is limited or

(58:53):
need some improvement.
And the third reason would beyou're not very good on an
interview, right.
So all of those qualities thatwe can hone, work on and develop
to acquire a new job, really,you know, it requires work.
And look, we've got we've gotStephanie Smith here and we

(59:14):
mentioned her in the last show,I think.
I don't think it was this show,maybe it was earlier in the
show.
You know, stephanie is awonderful example of someone who
is patient, didn't stop looking, knew it was gonna take a while
and didn't quit.
When you get, when you kick thequit out of you, great things
happen, right.

(59:35):
It I always think about.
You know that that bear analogy, right.
Like, you don't have to outrunthe bear.
You just have to outrun thenext person.
I'm thinking about this.
In the marketplace I'm lookingat Mason Frank was fired 30% of
their staff in the last sixmonths.
That's the largest sales for astaffing firm.
Like.
We haven't fired anybody, butthey've fired 30% of their staff
.
What are they trying to do?

(59:56):
They're trying to survive cashflow, they're trying to make it.
There's nothing wrong with whatthey had to do, because when
the market, when the economygets a cough, recruiters get
pneumonia and some of them dieif they don't make good
decisions.
I think it's a good decisionthat they made Right.
But the reality is is likeyou've got to make really good
decisions and you've got.
That means you have to take agood hard look at yourself and

(01:00:19):
ask yourself Maybe I'm not asgood in an interview, maybe I've
never recorded myself, maybe Ishould do some practice runs.
Maybe I should, you know, workon not talking so much.
Maybe I should watch all ofJosh's videos on Josh for us on
YouTube.
Right, like, invest some time,go to expand, exchange comm

(01:00:41):
there's a ton of resources onthere, people you can connect
with.
But the first thing you got todo is work on your resume and
then you got to work on yourinterviewing, and then you got
to work on your patience and yougot to feed yourself and you
got to feed your family whileyou're doing it.
So be working, just work.
Have a job.
Any job, wait tables, push abroom, it doesn't matter.
Be working and that's gonna dosomething for your Emotions to,

(01:01:05):
even if it's a job that you hate.
What's that gonna do?
You hate your job.
You want to get out of thisdead end.
You know, roll, that you're inKeep going to that job and then
every time you come home, you'llbe motivated to Focus.
Get your certifications and yourbelt.
Connect with people.
Spend time on LinkedIn, go toevents right and watch YouTube

(01:01:27):
videos.
Get good at presenting, getgood at talking, get good at
communicating.
Clean up your speech.
Cut out your arms and oz.
Stop the excuses, and that's thebiggest one.
Most people who are strugglinghave tons of excuses and they're
pointing outside, outside ofthem, for why their life is the
way that their life is and thereality is, oh God, I got this

(01:01:51):
great quote.
I'm trying to pull it up.
Where is it?
Where is it?
Oh yeah, our lives are notshaped by our shapes, not by
conditions, but by decisions.
I love that quote so I set itinto my little Surrey and
recorded it.
So it's not the conditions ofthe market, it's your decisions.
That's why you're having a hardtime now.
You might have some logisticalissues, you might be desiring a

(01:02:12):
job, but you live in a poorcountry in Africa and the
opportunities just aren't there.
And you're trying to land a jobin America.
That's gonna be hard.
You've got harder conditionsthan someone who's living in,
you know, san Francisco orChicago or Atlanta.
Right, it's gonna be harder.
So you've got to work with theconditions that you've gotten
and make the best decisions.
But usually when people aren'tsuccessful it's because of two

(01:02:33):
reasons one, they're impatientand two, they make dumb
decisions and don't learn fromtheir mistakes.
So stop doing that and you'regonna be fine, and then you'll
actually get the mentorship thatyou need.
There's no reason to go startyour own business as a
Salesforce pro without anyexperience.
You're way better off pickingsome sort of you know, like

(01:02:55):
Alex's point, like we're aroofing company, or become a
plumber or something.
Do something.
Do some career where you canget mentorship and you can learn
from experts Doesn't have to beSalesforce.
Salesforce certifications andSalesforce careers are not a
panacea for all of life's ills.
It's just a way to make aliving and it's a really nice
community while you're earningyour living.
That's it, but it's not theonly one.

(01:03:19):
There's a lot of different waysto have a great life in this
world.
It's just one way.

Caller (01:03:21):
Here also, I want to chime in with that because I
think we're the person's closeto Coming on idea that that I
came across.
What I love about Tech whetherthat's Salesforce or web design
or coding it's the accessibilityfor it to be a meritocracy.
And so we're a community.

(01:03:42):
And so where it sounds like theperson is close to Hitting the
target is saying, okay, well, ifI can't get hired by a group,
I'll just make my own group.
But so you're trying to getexperience.
Without experience, you don'thave to have a real group.
Just give yourself your ownproject.
How you could track yourcheesecakes, right, larry?
Right, so you can make creativeProjects.

(01:04:05):
That's the beautiful thing.
It could be silly, it could bepractical and, and this way
you're getting that hands-onexperience.
So it's just what really you'relooking for.
But you're not enduringsomeone's business when you're
doing it, and and it's Somethingyou can be able to show off,
for you know the resume, or justat least you know a posting

(01:04:26):
sharing with others.
It's.
It's a story that peopleremember.
So I think that's the mostimportant thing is just give
yourself your own experience.
Don't know, start yourconsulting.
Don't volunteer either that'san idea that some people have
out.
There is is to Volunteer to getexperience.
Nope, because you're hurtingthe nonprofit, who doesn't have
any budget to fix any errorsthat you do.

(01:04:48):
So just do your own project forcheesecakes or your own Sierra
like.
That's one thing put out.
There is just the Salesforce isa Like, it's a CRM.
So if you are looking for jobs,tracking jobs, use a CRM to do
that Salesforce.
You spin up a sandbox and youknow keep that data in there.

(01:05:11):
It's enough data for you forthat for free.

Josh Matthews (01:05:15):
Thanks Jason.
Good points, Vanessa.
What do you think I?

Vanessa Grant (01:05:20):
Just lost connection for like the last
five minutes.

Josh Matthews (01:05:23):
So oh, we were saying we were saying really
smart stuff.
That's a bummer.
You're gonna have to listen totune into the podcast, vanessa,
you'll hear exactly what.

Caller (01:05:35):
I love, josh, the recommendation for tax rule.
I just put that one on my booklist and check that out from the
library.
So I'll be listening to thataudiobook Because I think that's
also a thought about if you dowant to make that career shift
or career start Into tech, toknow that is a marathon for
anything that you you seeworthwhile.

(01:05:57):
It's gonna take a while so tounderstand that.
10x.

Josh Matthews (01:06:04):
Principle yeah, yeah.

Caller (01:06:06):
And in money guys is optimism.

Josh Matthews (01:06:09):
You've got to invent like it.
I know it's hard when we'rehungry, when we're broke.
I mean I remember the firsttime I had a thousand dollars as
an adult.
I had a thousand dollars savedbecause the next time I
accidentally dented someone'scar I wasn't a good driver back
then Casey might laugh Maybe I'mnot a good driver now, I don't
know.
But I remember being young inmy 20s, living an apartment with

(01:06:31):
friends right and Having athousand dollars in the bank and
I was so excited because I knewthe next time I had to pay
Insurance deductible I wasn'tgonna have to put it on a credit
card, right, like it was amilestone.
You don't have to like Totally,like crush it early on, you just
it's like baby steps, right.
But having a little bit ofmoney can help accelerate the

(01:06:52):
time with which it can take toget a job.
So if you've got three or fourhundred bucks, that means you
can afford a really good resumewriter.
If you've got three or fourhundred bucks, that means you
can afford, you know, one, two,three hour session with someone
you can coach you on yourinterviewing right Now, none of
it works if you're not receptiveto what people say and if
you're not moderatelyself-effacing and don't

(01:07:13):
recognize, if you're so afraidof your own fault or so scared
that people are going torecognize your weaknesses,
you're at a disadvantage.
That means spend the three orfour hundred dollars and go see
a therapist for four or five orsix sessions or 20 sessions.
Whatever you need right.
A lot of our, a lot of what weneed is not the thing that we

(01:07:34):
think we need Right.
We think that there's asolution out there for us, but
oftentimes the solutions that wecreate become the problems.
Like, all of a sudden, I'vejust spent five thousand dollars
on a little website For my ownlittle company and I only have
700 followers on LinkedIn and Ihave no way to get a client.
You would have been way betteroff spending two, three grand
and going to town stackers andgetting you know, some boot camp

(01:07:55):
in and getting some projectsunder your belt and Positioning
yourself with the help that youneed.
That's what you've got to do,and if you don't have it, then
put it on a credit card.
If you don't have a credit card, check your credit and see if
you can get one, and if youdon't have any of that, go to
friends and family and make realcommitments to pay them back
tenfold or whatever, so that youcan get the launch that you

(01:08:15):
need.
But no one's going to give youthat money if they don't see the
passion in you and the driveand the quality decision making
that's necessary.
So, start making really gooddecisions.
And, by the way, because I'massuming that this person is
either listening live or willlisten later on, I want to say,
because I was quite stern inthis response, I just want to
say hey, look, it's a greatquestion and you're doing the

(01:08:36):
right thing you're asking.
So you're already doing theright things.
Whoever you are Like,congratulations.
Like you're already on the path.
My friend, okay, as long as youcan take the medicine, you're
gonna be great.
This is a little bit of, youknow, this potentially
distasteful medicine right now,but if you can take it, you're
gonna be great and everything'sgonna be fine.
Right, it's hard, but it's okay, right, all, right Now.

(01:09:00):
I know that we had a questionfrom Abraham and I want to make
sure that that we get to that.
So, if it's okay, he's writtenit down.
You're welcome to come to thestage and read it a lot.
Read it aloud.
And here's what Ibs said.
He said hi everyone.
I'm actually star struck rightnow being on the same platform
with Salesforce Professionals.
That's very sweet of you.
It I'm not yet certified.

(01:09:20):
What advice would you give anovice like me?
Thank you so much, vanessa.
Can you take this one?

Vanessa Grant (01:09:28):
As long as my internet holds up.
Yes, you know this pesky lainternet, somebody who's not
certified.
First thing, get on trailheadand Start.
I always say, no matter whichpath you're going on, I think
getting that admin certification, or and at least the, the
knowledge on that admincertifications, going to be

(01:09:51):
really valuable, and so ifyou're not certified, start
working on that certification.
I feel like that's really theticket to entry for for a
Salesforce career.
No matter which path, whetherit's functional, technical, you
know project manager, and justall of it will help you in your
career.

Caller (01:10:09):
Vanessa, what are your quick thoughts on the associate
sir?
I think that one is wonderfulbecause the admin, I think, is
the hardest, because it's sobroad and vague.
That the associate sir Did Ithink is a great new welcome
certification to be able tovalidate a person's introduction
to the Salesforce concept.

Josh Matthews (01:10:28):
So Vanessa might be having some issues with the
Internet.
It's okay, look, let me take.
Let me take this one.
Anyone with an associates isgoing to be competing with
people who have their admin, sir.
Okay, like they just are,because there's a lot of people
who've already had their admincert and they're still looking
for a job and and the admin sirtrumps the associate one right.

Caller (01:10:49):
You need many X to get to that.
10 X, one X at a time.

Josh Matthews (01:10:53):
Yeah, what one X at a time.
So, yeah, there's nothing wrongwith it.
Just know that, like it's justlike we talk about this on the
show all the time the certUnlocks the door but it doesn't
open.
It.
Experiences what opens the door.
And then personality,professionalism, ability to
interview, ability tocommunicate is what helps you
walk through the door.
So you get the key first right,whether that's the associates

(01:11:15):
or the full admin.
I think if you get theassociates first, that's great.
Now, like, what do you set upfor?
Maybe you can do with somesupport work and things like
that.
I don't really know, but yeah,it's a good way to go and
that'll certainly make gettingthe admin a little bit easier.
And then, if also share withyou, go to expand, exchange,
calm, and I'm going to tell you,if you go there right now, it's

(01:11:38):
not going to be the prettiestthing and it's going to be a
little bit slow, but theinformation on there is great
people that you can connect with, the slack channels and slack
communities that you can go to.
We are launching there ourbrand new.
We're good, we're doing QAtesting on our brand new website
on Friday and our hope is thatwe get a live launch of our

(01:11:58):
brand new website sometime nextweek.
The current sites four and ahalf years old, right, so it's a
little bit slower.
So the new one should befantastic.
But go to expand, exchange,calm.
You can also go to Josh.
For us it's going to talk aboutinterviewing and some skills
that you can develop there.
You can also go to our Ourinsights page or a blog page

(01:12:20):
where we have videos andarticles that can help support
you.
But the most important thing isjust take the first step.
There's nothing wrong withtaking that first step.
My friend and You've done ittoday by being on this show.
So we appreciate you andthere's absolutely nothing to be
in awe of here, because we alljust breathe the same air as you
do, all right.
So I appreciate all of yourlovely comments.

(01:12:42):
It's very sweet of you, verykind of you.
We all put our pants or skirtson one leg at a time, so you're
good now and just just continueputting that first step forward.
Get it to Vanessa's point Go togo to Salesforce.
What is it?
Salesforce dot trailhead, calm,you can actually go.
I think I've got a short linkthat I created.

(01:13:03):
Let me double check.
I think it's For anyone whowants it, the quick one, let's
see.
Yeah, josh, force, calm forward, slash trailhead.
That'll take you there, okay,and you can get set up and just
start working through some ofthe modules and I think you're
gonna find it really fun and youand and then stay connected
with this community.

(01:13:23):
You're welcome to be on thisshow and ask questions.
We're happy to help guide youin whatever way we can, every
couple weeks, okay.

Caller (01:13:31):
And another ex all along the way too, is about
working up the ladder, thinkingabout if you have heard about
Salesforce but you've neverworked with Salesforce.
Work with Salesforce is a stepin the right direction, just
finding roles where you could bea Salesforce user and this way
you can be able to get thatexperience and also perhaps get

(01:13:51):
your foot.
Your Now have a foot in thedoor where perhaps you can be
able to move within that companyor at least, you know, rub
shoulders with the admin ordevelopment team.

Josh Matthews (01:14:03):
Good point, jason.
Good, sorry, I was a little farfrom the mic.
Good point, jason.
Okay, vanessa, do we have anylast questions?
Otherwise, we're going to wrapup what has been a two hour and
20 minute yeah, live showsession.

Vanessa Grant (01:14:17):
Now we're weird, we're complete.

Caller (01:14:20):
Okay well, I thought we're talking all the way till
dream force.

Josh Matthews (01:14:24):
Yeah, right, almost.
Look, guys, I do want to sharea couple quick announcements as
we wrap up this show.
And again, this show isprobably gonna get published
during dream force.
So if you happen to listen toit then and you're wondering why
we're not having a live show onthat day, it's because we're
gonna be pushing out our liveshow one week Because of dream
force.
Now we're going to record apodcast on Thursday, the 14th,

(01:14:48):
but we will not be doing it livehere on Twitter spaces.
That's gonna be filmed andrecorded at the marketing home,
or home for marketers, sponsoredby Sercante, just north of the
Moscone Center, at the pinkelephant.
We hope you can join us for that.
If you're just kind of tuningin right now, you can find a
registration to visit.

(01:15:08):
Visit with me, vanessa, fredand a bunch of other content
creators At our little partythat we're gonna be having at
dream force.
That's at 2 30 on Wednesday,and the live podcast session
with a live audience.
That's gonna be at 2 30 onThursday.
If you go to at the Josh forceor just click on my face here if

(01:15:28):
you're listening to the liveshow, that'll take you to my
Twitter feed.
I don't post a ton on there,but I did just post a couple
pictures of me, peter and Eric,as well as me and Larry, from
our last Dreaming event, whichwas last week, and then, if you
just scroll a little bit belowthat, you're gonna find two
links so that you can registerand get some free drinks, free
food and a lot of conversationand hopefully some fun

(01:15:48):
entertainment from a livepodcast and I've meeting some of
your favorite content creators.
Okay, vanessa, any partingwords?

Vanessa Grant (01:15:57):
No, it's been real, guys, thanks.
Thanks so much.
It's been a fun show.

Josh Matthews (01:16:01):
It's been a really fun show and I got to
tell you guys, I am sweatingbullets because I turn the air
conditioning off when we havethese shows so that it doesn't
like make a lot of noise in themic and all the windows are shut
.
So I can't wait to crank afancy and get myself a nice cold
drink cool down.
But boy, this has been apowerhouse of a session with
some amazing guests, amazingpanel, fantastic questions,

(01:16:24):
amazing co-host and terrificaudience.
Thanks everybody for joining us.
We will be back and I guesslive show will be back in three
weeks from today.
So plan on that and then expectnew podcasts to be released
Every single week up until then,and there is no new release of
a podcast today.
Okay, so if you're, if you'relistening, that's what's going

(01:16:47):
on there, all right, thank youeverybody.
Have a wonderful week.