August 16, 2023 • 58 mins
Let's imagine you are standing at the gateway of the Salesforce industry, but you have no experience or background in it. Sounds scary, isn't it? Fear not, as this episode has Jordan Nelson, a veteran in the Salesforce industry, spilling the secrets to breaking into this swelling business, with no prior experience required. Nelson underscores the necessity of developing a social proof like a website or content that showcases your knowledge even before you step into an interview. Drawing inspiration from Amazon's product advertising strategies, he encourages you on how to sell your skills online.
But what if you're seeking to transition into the Salesforce industry? Anthony, another guest in this episode, unveils his riveting journey of breaking into the ecosystem. He shares how optimizing your LinkedIn profile, conducting comprehensive job research, and forming genuine connections within the Salesforce community can be valuable. Further, we probe the benefits of tailoring a job hunt program with a professional and the need for a razor-sharp focus on opportunities.
Social media, often a double-edged sword, can be your best ally if used wisely. In this episode, we tap into the essence of being genuine on social platforms and how it aids in establishing your footprint in the Salesforce industry. We discuss the 'secret sauce' behind successful content creators and why developing resilience towards criticisms is a crucial life skill. Josh and Vanessa, our guests, emphasize the importance of consistency and learning from failures for success in the digital space. They also touch on the different career paths in the Salesforce ecosystem, the importance of taking risks, and not overthinking career decisions. Let's tune in, extract the wisdom, and plunge into the vibrant world of Salesforce!
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Episode Transcript
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Announcer (00:02):
And now the number one audio program that helps you
to hire, get hired and soarhigher in the Salesforce
ecosystem.
It's the Salesforce career showwith Josh Matthews and Vanessa
Grant.
Josh Matthews (00:20):
Okay, welcome back everybody.
It's part two of our sessionswith Jordan Nelson.
I'm your host, josh Matthews,my co-host, vanessa Grant.
I run theSalesforcerecruitercom.
You've got some amazing jobs upthere right now.
So go ahead and go to theSalesforcerecruitercom, forward,
slash j-o-b and if you'rereally interested in building
(00:42):
your community, really learningmore about who are the voices in
our ecosystem that are reallystanding out, well, we've
compiled the list, and by we Imean Vanessa Grant and myself
have compiled a list ofintelligent, smart people and
links to all of these smartpeople, whether it's on YouTube
or podcasts like Fred Kdenis gothis disruption podcast, which
(01:05):
is fantastic.
So you can find all of these atexpandexchangecom.
So go visit expandexchangecomand it's our hope that by the
end of the month our brand newwebsite's out and the navigation
will be even easier.
So check that out.
But here we are.
We're ready to dive into parttwo with Mr Jordan Nelson.
Jordan's out of Utah, close toLehigh, and he's been sharing
(01:30):
his experiences of growing afollowing of 85,000 people just
incredible and also histransition from being an
employee to having his, to doinghis own sort of on-the-side
work, of helping others improvetheir LinkedIn presence and grow
their personal Salesforcecareers, and now he's got his
(01:51):
own Salesforce consultancy andthe floor is now open, wide open
, for questions and input fromeverybody on our panel here.
And, by the way, vanessa, maybeyou can share, if someone has a
question, what they might wantto do.
Vanessa Grant (02:05):
Sure, if anybody has a question, feel free to
send me a DM.
On Twitter, it's RL, vanessaGrant, or on LinkedIn Reel
Vanessa Grant, and happy to aska question on your behalf.
If you are not here, live withus.
Josh Matthews (02:20):
Okay, so if anyone does have a question, go
ahead and ask.
Now you can raise your hand.
Vanessa, do you have anyquestions that you've received
so far during this show?
Vanessa Grant (02:29):
I did.
I've been asking, I've beenthrowing it up on socials to see
if folks have questions aheadof time.
So I do have a few.
Josh Matthews (02:35):
Let's dive right in.
Let's dive in.
Vanessa Grant (02:39):
So first of all, I'll ask, if you are a newly
certified administrator and donot have a background in tech or
in Salesforce, what are thebest strategies to break into
the industry, given the jobmarket and current economic
climate?
Josh Matthews (02:52):
Oh man, who wants to weigh in on that?
Jordan, go for it bud.
Jordan Nelson (02:58):
I don't know if I have the greatest curiosity
probably you.
But no, I would just say kind ofgoing back to like what we
talked about today, even thoughthere's still a lot of people
like creating content, I stillthink, like trying to figure out
some kind of way, whether thatis through content or even just
like a website, you only have itpublished for when you try to
(03:20):
take an interview, somethingthat will allow you to kind of
have proof ahead of time.
I think for me, what I'verealized with the business and
with finding jobs and any luckwith any of that, is that kind
of social proof is always key.
So like when you go to Amazon,when you look at Amazon and you
go to buy a product, like payattention to, just like what the
(03:41):
landing page looks like.
It's like a ton of stuff, likereenoffing your brain to try to
get you to buy the product,where it's like this is how many
reviews we have and these arewhat the people have said about
it, and this is going to onlylast for a day before the sell
is over or whatever.
So the more you can kind ofrecreate that same type of idea
online, I think it makes it alittle bit easier, and
(04:01):
especially if you don't have,like the background to lean on,
the more you can kind of provethat you know how to do this at
a time.
I think that makes thingseasier in the long run.
But I'd probably refer to Joshon this one for sure.
Josh Matthews (04:13):
Yeah, I'll tell you, I'm not a real expert in
this.
I mean, I like to be an experton certain things, but breaking
into a new industry is notsomething that I'm necessarily
like.
I wouldn't say like I'm thevoice of that or anything like
that.
But what I will share is thiswhen you just don't have the
experience you've got thecertification, but you don't
have the background you're at adisadvantage.
(04:35):
The first thing I like to askpeople is like well, why did you
even join this?
What tempted you to turnwhatever career trajectory you
were on and point it in anotherdirection?
Can you answer that question?
Do you love technology?
If so, what about it do youlove?
(04:56):
Is it the people?
Is it the thing?
Is it what it can do?
Or are you in this just so thatyou can wear pajamas to work in
your home office and you don'thave to go into another business
anymore?
So you've got to really answerthose questions for yourself.
And the next thing is basicresearch and involvement.
(05:19):
If you're behind the eight ball,meaning if it's going to be a
little bit more difficult foryou to get a win, to stand out
from the crack, let's face itthere's thousands of people with
Salesforce admin certificationsthat aren't working in the
ecosystem.
Thousands of people who alreadyhave a background in tech and
(05:41):
want to make a transition fromwhatever stack it is into
Salesforce, and they maystruggle to break it.
The people who tend to makethat move are one, they're
willing to get paid less.
Two, they're willing to do whatthey're told.
So you've got to be kind ofjust ask yourself do I take good
advice from good people and doI follow through on those
(06:03):
recommendations?
At the end of the day, ifpeople just take the advice and
then do the work, they're goingto succeed.
It might take them a littlelonger, it's okay, there's
nothing wrong with that.
Think how long it takes to get acollege degree.
That might never have actuallysupported your career in the
first place, other than nowyou've got a degree so you can
apply to this job.
So you've got to put the timein and you've got to be willing
(06:25):
to let go of some of the incometo get the education.
So be willing to do that andyou've got to stand out for some
reason or another.
And I think I don't know if itwas the last.
I think, if you go back andlisten to the military podcast.
We had two in a row with DaveNava and Ryan.
(06:48):
I think you're going to see,it's just like that advice that
we give to the militaryprofessionals who are making the
transition applies to anyone.
You don't have to have been inthe army or the Navy or the
Marines or the Air Force I thinksome of our awesome listeners
on this show right now.
Okay, but you just follow thatadvice.
So this has been answered.
(07:09):
Before I would just check outsome of the past podcasts.
That's what I would say.
Go ahead, fred.
Fred Cadena (07:14):
Sure and 100% agree with both what you and Jordan
shared.
The one thing I would say isand if I remember the question,
they said they didn't have atechnology or Salesforce
background.
They didn't have a consultingbackground.
I would ask them what?
is the background that they had.
I'm sure there's a reason toyour point, josh.
They pivoted away from that andthat may not be where they want
(07:35):
to stay, but that could be agood place to start their
Salesforce journey.
So if they came out of a careerin retail, maybe go to a
consulting firm that specializesin retail implementations for
Salesforce and bring thatexpertise from working in that
industry to that role and maybewhat you are lacking in years of
(07:56):
experience on the platform youcan bring from that industry
background or if you were in themilitary or if you were in XYZ
before.
Bringing that to help bridgesome of that skill gap can make
it a little bit easier forsomebody who want to take a risk
on somebody that maybe has notheld a professional position in
Salesforce until today.
Josh Matthews (08:14):
That's right.
Just capitalize on yourindustry, whatever that is.
I mean, jordan made a cleanbreak from vinyl wrapping cars,
but he'd also done some techbefore, so let's just ask Jordan
that real quick.
And then we've got questionsfrom Peter Gonsen next, and then
Vanessa.
But Jordan, I mean, how did youbreak into tech in general,
(08:40):
nevermind Salesforce?
Jordan Nelson (08:42):
Yeah, yeah.
So I wasn't really in thatindustry.
I had asked the Salesforceadmins that I knew of at Walmart
eCommerce I was not really onthat side of things that I asked
and, honestly, yeah, I juststarted applying, for I happened
to live in an area too where alot of tech was popping up here
in Lehigh.
So, talking with a few people,they're saying that was the
(09:05):
place to try to apply.
So I really just focused myefforts on.
All the applications I put inwere for that industry.
I didn't try to spread it sothin so that way, if it did land
, it was going to be in theindustry I wanted to be in.
Josh Matthews (09:20):
Excellent Peter.
Caller (09:23):
I get this quite often.
I'm with Jordan.
There's so many people outthere getting the certifications
and all that kind of stuff,which is great, but prove it,
make something, build something.
Whether you have experience ornot, you need to have the proof
is in the pudding, so you can'tjust rely on the background, the
(09:45):
experience or how many numberof certifications you got to
prove it and be able to showsomething and make it relevant.
If you want to get into withtheir retail, build something,
retail related, that's reallythe best thing.
Josh Matthews (09:59):
I tell people to be able to break through the
noise right now.
I like it.
I mean, everybody comes fromsomething.
It's all six degrees ofseparation, whether it's people
or industries, so that makes alot of sense.
Go ahead, vanessa.
Vanessa Grant (10:15):
So I was just going to throw in.
I think there still is a needto do the basics where, if you
are making a complete careertransition, you have to go all
in.
Part of that is optimizing yourLinkedIn.
So you are obviously aSalesforce person.
That might be difficult to doif you don't have any experience
(10:37):
in IT, if you don't have anyexperience in Salesforce.
That's where I think connectingwith other people in the
community, looking at jobpostings that you might be
interested in.
What do those entry-level roleslook like?
Who are the people who maybeare a step or two or even five
ahead of you on this journey?
What kind of words are theyusing?
Have you built up thevocabulary so that you can get
(10:59):
your search engine optimizationon point for your LinkedIn?
Do you have a good photo?
Do you have a good cover?
Is your resume updated so thatyou're really just focusing on
those skills that aretransferable?
Based on the research thatyou've done on Salesforce jobs,
I think all that is stillrelevant.
But of course, now with thestate of the industry, which is
(11:21):
part of the question, yes, I dothink that to accelerate your
career journey, you do have todo that little bit of extra,
since the market is verycompetitive right now.
Josh Matthews (11:33):
Absolutely yeah, do your research, people.
It's on Google.
Figure it out, you'll figure itout.
Jump on expand exchange.
Literally, that is the fastestway to start getting connected
with experts.
And to Jordan's point in partone of this podcast we're on
part two right now.
It really talks about modelingwhat you do after other people
(12:00):
who've done it successfully.
Right, and it's a basicprinciple in business do what
you know already works.
You don't have to figure thisall out for yourself.
I mean, that would be anightmare.
I don't even know a lot ofpeople who are smart enough to
do that.
I don't think I would be.
So, yeah, just model others.
Anthony, thanks for being onthe show.
(12:22):
Let's have you up becauseyou're fairly new to the
ecosystem and you came fromdoing awesome karate chops and
having your own dojo and thennow you're a Salesforce pro at a
reputable consulting firm.
So tell us your story realquick.
What did you do?
Anthony Rodriguez (12:39):
Well, I didn't do any one thing.
It was like a mountain ofthings that finally came
together.
I got a mentor, which startkicked me off and a lot of
people don't know this but I gotto talk with the legendary Josh
Matthews.
I thought I knew how to write aresume, I thought I had a
competitive resume, and whenJosh reviewed it, he made me
(13:04):
realize I'm throwing the kitchensink at this, but I'm not
telling that future job why I'mthe best choice for them, what
exactly is my value and where ismy passion?
And how were those two thingstied together?
So I had to go back to squareone after Josh helped me get
back in line and I redid myresume, highlighting the exact
(13:26):
value I can bring if they wantto give me an opportunity.
And so I just want to say that,yeah, going back to the basics,
when you're trying to breakinto the ecosystem, that resume
needs to be dialed in 100%.
And for those who have neverbeen, if there's a local
dreaming event, you got to putthat on your radar.
The networking that that'sFaceTime Just the chance to get
(13:49):
your face out there, say hello,have a casual conversation and
do it right is so, so, so key.
That was one of the big steps,along with my resume being
dialed in, that helped me breakin.
Josh Matthews (14:05):
Yeah, thanks for sharing that, Anthony, and
thanks for the plug.
And look, I don't do resumesfor people.
I guess if I charged five granda pop I'd probably do it, but
I'm not going to.
But they're really good.
They're really good resumewriters out there.
I can recommend a personalscribecom.
Her name's Rosie.
It's kind of an older site, butRosie's dialed mine in over 20
(14:31):
years ago and I got my resumeback.
I was like, oh my God, I'mawesome, I'm so good.
Look at this, so like you canreally make a big difference.
And then another woman that Irefer a lot of folks to,
particularly if you're moresenior.
I don't mean by age, but I meanif you're a director level or
manager director level and above.
(14:51):
I generally recommend peoplework with Jule Bracey Demayo.
That'sJ-E-W-E-L-B-R-A-C-Y-D-D-M-I-O.
Hopefully I spelled that right.
But Jule's fantastic and shewill craft an entire job hunt
program for you, not just yourresume, but she'll work on your
(15:11):
LinkedIn profile for you.
Now, working with a professionalalways takes some.
It costs something, right, andit usually costs more than
anyone is prepared to pay.
But when you are looking atthis like a massive investment
which it is it's one of the bestinvestments you can make.
It's the tip.
It's like how sharp is the tipof your spear?
(15:33):
If it's dull, it's just gonnabounce off of opportunities.
If it's pointy, it'll stick,and that's what you want.
So work with someone who'sreally good at helping you build
that sharp, pointy tip, and Ithink that's going to help you
quite a bit.
So there you go.
Vanessa Grant (15:49):
And for a free resource for folks that might be
a little more frugal.
I actually got a lot of valueand updated my resume a little
bit, based on David K Liu, who'sa Salesforce MVP.
He works at Google, he's adeveloper, but he has a YouTube
video called Steel my Resume,which I found very valuable as
(16:12):
far as how to craft a resume forSalesforce roles and even
though I'm a BA and he's adeveloper or I consult now I did
find his resume reviews and hisSteel my Resume video to be
really helpful.
Josh Matthews (16:29):
Look, I'm with you there.
But I honestly, like I knowthat video and I know David and
I like this guy's done so muchfor the community, like he's
done so much, he's like a lot ofthe people on this show just so
willing to give his time andhis knowledge.
But I actually had some thingsabout the way that he did that
(16:50):
resume that I didn't reallyagree with, right.
So there's always going to bedifferent points of view, but
the most important thing is justfigure out where you're going
to get your information from andfollow their advice.
If you start mish-mashingeverything, if you took all of
David's recommendations and myrecommendations, I don't think
that they would necessarilyblend perfectly well.
Like I just don't.
That doesn't mean that hisrecommendations aren't awesome.
(17:13):
Clearly they've worked well foryou, vanessa, right, but
there's been some.
There were just one or twothings I thought was like just
kind of just skirting the edgeof okay, if that does that make
sense?
Vanessa Grant (17:26):
Well, yes, I would love to hear if you had
any, if you remembered anythingspecific that you didn't like.
I'd be curious.
Josh Matthews (17:32):
Yeah, I'd have to look at it and like I like
David and I like a lot of hiscontent.
But I just remembered somethingabout the steal my resume thing
.
I just felt like it was alittle bit throwing in a little
bit of fluff, sort of hidingsome of the facts under some
shiny words.
(17:52):
Yeah, I'm probably gonna haveto delete this from the podcast
because I really don't want tosay anything negative about
there.
Like, oh my God, like you'll belike dude, what's up with that
man?
Like you wouldn't actually saydude, but you know, like I just
remember a feeling.
I watched this thing and Ilooked at the recommendations
and I reviewed the resume andyeah, I mean that resume got him
(18:15):
into Google.
Guess who else wants to getinto Google?
Frickin' everybody, cause theypay great, the benefits are
great and you know, even if youdon't want to wind up there
forever, you know you get stockoptions and all these wonderful
things.
So it's difficult to get into atop five company, right
Microsoft, oracle, apple, youknow, and Google and so on,
amazon.
So like it's really good advice.
(18:37):
But we've also got to be likereally truthful.
We don't want to hide too, andby truthful I mean we don't want
to ever have to get caught inanything that we said on the
resume and then have to go backand kind of explain why we
explained it that way.
Does that make sense?
Vanessa Grant (18:56):
Yes, and I think that's excellent advice.
Josh Matthews (18:58):
Yeah, I'll tell you a quick story, guys.
I one of my clients.
They were hiring a salesperson.
We don't place a lot ofsalespeople here.
We do it sometimes, but wedon't do it too often.
And the reason why I don't doit too often is because when
you're placing a salesperson,people who are A's or in
business development on averagestatistically will have about
(19:20):
twice as many fibs in aninterview and on their resume as
the average person.
After all, they want people whoare, who are.
You have the gift of gab and orthe gift of spin, right, like
there's an element to that insales and so, like it's.
While I find it forgivable,what's unforgivable is not being
(19:43):
able to figure out where thoseinaccuracies in their
communications are, and that'sour job, right.
So a client of mine was likehey, man, I interviewed this gal
, she did great, but I've gotthese funny feelings from some
of our communications, like shewasn't necessarily listening or
she didn't actually read theemail, that kind of thing.
(20:05):
And I just said, hey, look, man, I'll, why don't I?
Just I'll spend 45 minutes,I'll interview her for you Like
it's a freebie, let me just domy you know quick little
conversation and dig into someof these other points.
And later that day we were.
It was later that day or thenext day we got on a call me and
my client and I said so what'syour understanding of where this
(20:30):
individual is working like andwhy they want to leave?
And they said well, myunderstanding is that they're
not feeling supported and theywant more leadership,
responsibility.
I said, okay, did you know thatthey were fired two months ago?
He's like oh what?
No?
Well, they were for performance.
(20:54):
Of course, I figured that out.
That wasn't too hard.
But a lot of people, whenthey're interviewing, most
people are professionalinterviewers.
There are a lot ofprofessionals.
There's a lot of baristas inthe world who can't make a good
cappuccino.
Just because you're a baristadoesn't mean you're good at it.
Just because you're a recruiteror a hiring manager doesn't
(21:16):
mean you're good at interviewing.
But people lie.
They don't say, they hidethings.
Why wouldn't they?
Because we're imperfect people,all of us.
I'm imperfect, vanessa's not,but I am.
The reality is we've got to getthrough that mud.
We've got to get clarity.
The only way we can do that isby being absolutely committed,
(21:39):
100%, to being willing to thisnot working out.
We talked about this in ourlast session.
Remember, guys, we were talkingabout negotiations, right, fred
?
Remember that conversation?
We had Jason on 100% greatconversation.
Yes, it was a greatconversation.
In fact, it was such a goodconversation that I just did a
(22:01):
proposal for Florida Dreaming toteach negotiating skills to
Salesforce professionals forFlorida Dreaming.
Hopefully Mike and the panelgive a thumbs up on that,
because that'll be great.
I will be going.
If I can't be on that, I'll beon some other panel.
If you go to Florida Dreaming,I'll be there and I'll see you
guys, this idea that you justbelieve what's being said, or
(22:22):
just believe and don't challengepeople, that's the big deal
here.
Guys, when I think about thepeople who are most successful
in the world, they did a coupleof things.
First of all, they challengedthemselves.
They challenged themselves.
It can be anything.
Casey's son Connor he's 25, hejust got his certification for
(22:44):
jumping out of airplanes.
He can now jump out ofairplanes by himself, pack his
own, shoot the whole thing.
This guy went for it.
This guy's a go-getter.
He's just like I'm just goingto do this.
He'll wake up early and go getthree jumps in and then go do a
20-mile run to get ready for his100-mile Moab run.
He's got it.
He's challenging himself.
(23:04):
I love that.
Another thing, part two, isyou've got to challenge others.
Not just challenge them to dobetter, but challenge them for
the truth.
What did you mean by that?
Tell me more.
Just keep talking, keep going.
Who else helped you with that?
You were a project manager on a$5 million implementation.
(23:27):
That's great.
How many PMs were there?
Oh, there were four.
Okay, what percentage?
How much was yours?
Oh, $500 grand.
Out of the $5 million you had10% of this $5 million project.
You don't come to light realquick.
You've just got to be able tohave good questions and, more
importantly, be unafraid to askthem.
When you get an answer thatsounds funny, feels funny, then
(23:48):
just say, hey, that sounds alittle funny.
What did you mean?
Then you'll get to the truth,because we're all walking around
with these personas.
Jordan's got his sweatshirt andjean jacket.
Persona guy, super cool guy.
The fact is, he's a reallysnappy dresser.
Actually.
I know he's throwing up somesmiley faces and laughing right
now, but it's true, we've gotLarry Lee in his buttoned up
(24:10):
suit and tie.
But, larry, you don't wake upand put a suit and tie on every
day, do you?
Probably not.
We've all got these images thatwe're pushing out there and
portraying.
We've got to challenge thoseimages that we're getting.
We've got to challenge thatpersona.
It's a persona.
It's not who we are deep downinside.
Very few of us have the skillsto be able to really be so
(24:33):
authentic that it just is goingto shine through.
I don't even know why.
I'm sorry, I didn't even havecoffee and I'm ranting.
I'm just going to shut up.
Someone asked a question orchime in again.
Vanessa Grant (24:45):
No, I think that was great, Josh.
Actually, you talking about thedrive, I actually just wanted
to bring up something, if I may.
I recently contributed to anarticle on Salesforce Ben.
Mostly just a quote is writtenby Tom Bassett, but it's what I
(25:07):
learned from failing multipleSalesforce exams.
I think in this ecosystem,having that perseverance is huge
.
It's not even necessarily likelet me just accomplish all these
things.
How do you continuously learnand how do you continuously pick
yourself up?
If you are in this industrylong enough, if you are going
(25:29):
for all those certifications,you are going to fail.
Occasionally you are going tohave that project that's going
to be a dumpster fire.
Occasionally You're like, okay,let me just get through it and
I'll still call it a win.
It's really important in thisecosystem To that, and I also
want to give a shout out to oneof our loyal listeners, Tyler
(25:51):
Huff, after a few fails, haspassed his admin exam, which
he's not here anymore on thelive show.
Caller (25:58):
I'm here, actually he's back, he's back no worries.
I actually think I was so tornup I actually had to jump to an
internal client call and I waslike I'm missing the celebrity
fest here, but maybe it wascovered while I was gone.
But if you don't mind, jordan,I had a quick question that I
(26:19):
can.
Can you guys hear me okay?
Josh Matthews (26:23):
Yeah, buddy, you're on Go for it Right on.
Caller (26:25):
Excellent Again.
Jordan, big fan, followed sincemaybe mid to early 2020, back
when you're in the closet with6,000 followers.
If Bradley had to know this,good to see 85,000.
The question is, obviously yougot your system riled up.
You got your thing.
I've tracked it all for yearsnow and you've shown lots of
(26:45):
tips, lots of hacks.
Is it a little bit of?
I mean, the question is likewhat's the secret sauce?
But also it's a little bit oflike Nick Medjuli, like just
keep buying, just keep posting,just be consistent, be the guy
that's always hitting it daily,weekly, monthly, just everyone.
I mean you're the real.
I mean you could think youthink okay, who posted on
LinkedIn consistently aboutSalesforce?
(27:07):
There's probably five peopleeveryone could kind of think of
and definitely I think you'reone of those five, right, I mean
, what do you see from yoursuccess and the numbers behind
the curtain?
And then what do you see fromthe other four people that
you're friends with that arealso on those top five every day
?
Jordan Nelson (27:21):
Yeah, good question.
Thank you for the kind wordstoo.
I appreciate you following foras long as you have.
It's funny.
You referenced that video withBrad that I did like as I got
into the system.
Caller (27:31):
Very few views.
It's only 4,000 views.
It's a hidden gem.
People should go back and findit.
Jordan Nelson (27:38):
Sweet.
Yeah, I think it's definitelybeen a mix.
I think Vanessa kind of startedhitting on it at one point,
josh a little bit as well, butthere's definitely like
something that goes on writtenwhich is like the negativity of
all of it.
I think what ends up deterringa lot of people is they get into
it with the idea of it's goingto give them a job and they're
doing it to help people and then, unfortunately, in the way
(28:00):
social media goes, is you kindof have to start developing some
thick skin because you startgetting comments or you start
reading into the comments toomuch.
People without perspective tryto kind of tear you down.
I would say so.
I think there's one part of it,that which is like once you
figure out that groove, once youstart getting that negativity
or you start reading into thecomments, figure out what's best
(28:23):
for you to not let that deteryou.
For me at this point I mentionedit earlier but I work with a
ghost writer because I couldn'tstay consistent.
I couldn't stay consistenttrying to do whatever I got Call
clients, get all these thingsdone by the end of the week, run
a business and then think ofcontent on top of that of what I
(28:45):
was going to post and get itscheduled out.
It was just it was too much.
So I moved into something elsewhere it still is like my
messaging and my voice, butworking with somebody else to
help kind of get that delivered.
And honestly, yeah, it has.
It is kind of a dumb answer,but it is really a lot of the
consistency, like me just doingthis straight up for three years
(29:06):
and staying on top of it andtrying to look into trends too.
Like there's there is one sideof it too where you got to get
better at it, like you can'tjust keep posting the same stuff
if it's not getting views orit's not getting stuff like that
shouldn't deter you to somedegree.
But the other side is like,well, the point is to get views
so that I can get the job, ormore people can see it so I can
(29:27):
get the leads.
So you do kind of have tofigure it out and be willing to
ship it.
And that's where I want to saythat Josh and Vanessa hit on it
because I still do that to thisday and I think some people are
like afraid of that.
They'll delete the post becauseI got 85,000 followers and I
only got 13 likes.
It's like well, I learnedsomething from it.
Nobody cares the way I said it,like I either use the language
(29:48):
that was crappy or theformatting was bad or the
messaging was off.
So I don't delete it, I let itstay.
So I use that as a learningpoint, like, okay, never do that
again.
So when I pull up my stats, Ican go back and look at the bad
ones too to realize what wasgood, what was bad and how do I
do more of the good.
Does that answer your question?
Caller (30:14):
Yeah, yeah, I did Thank you so much and that was good
and I think definitely less thaneveryone, just to keep it up
and, like you said, you knowyou're doing something right if
you get a lot of negativity,right.
Josh Matthews (30:29):
You know I got a quick story for you guys that's
kind of tied into this, which isabout being keeping things
positive, right andunderstanding.
To Jordan's point that, yeah,like, if you get popular enough,
let's just say what it is.
You know enough followers, it'spopularity, right.
So if you get popular enough,you're going to have some
detractors and or haters orwhatever you want to call them.
(30:52):
So yesterday afternoon I wasover at my friend Ryan Berklin's
art studio and gallery.
He's a famous in the Portlandarea, is a famous artist, he's a
wonderful like long, long timefriend and just he's an ex
marine and he's just like thefunniest dude ever.
(31:13):
And he told me a story abouthow he was.
He was on Instagram and doesanyone here know who Jeff Koons
is.
Jeff Koons is one of the mostwell known modern pop artists
not pop music, but visualartists in America right now,
(31:33):
one of the highest paid artistsof all time.
Some people don't make selltheir artwork for the amount of
money that he does unlessthey've been dead for a hundred
years, but he's figured out,he's figured it out.
So my friend Ryan Berklin, whoI called Berkey, so Berkey was
on his Instagram and someone hadwritten a comment, saying like,
(31:54):
oh, this stuff's not that greatand just kind of like rag.
And I think this other, thisperson who was commenting, was
an artist and they were justbagging on Jeff Koons, which is,
well, it's stupid, right, andto do that stupid, to be
negative.
And Ryan piped up and he saidhey, what's, help me remember
what's the name of that thatartist that used to just like
(32:16):
bag on other artists and gotreally famous.
And the guy responded to thelike oh, I don't know, he's like
that's right, cause that'snever happened.
And then Jeff Koons actuallywrote him.
He's like hey, man, thanks for,like, thanks for the defense.
So he got the.
You know, he actually got.
You know, I'm not saying JeffKoons is his hero.
(32:37):
I don't know if he is or not, Idon't think he is but he has a
lot of respect for him becausehe's the guy who makes those
giant sculptures that look likehuge, shiny balloon animals,
right, but they might be like 15feet high, so like mad props
for that.
So, keeping it positive,ignoring the detractors and sort
(32:59):
of standing up for, for keepingthings moving in a in a good,
positive direction, that's why Ialways hate saying anything
kind of negative about anybodyon this show and I feel, like I
did earlier and I feel bad aboutthat, like it's just, but I,
you know, I think truth isbetter than than kindness.
Sometimes, right, and truthisn't always kind, but that
(33:20):
doesn't mean just bag on someone.
So when you are out there doingyour LinkedIn game, it's easy
to use the the dark side tobecome powerful, but you're just
going to be left with a bunchof darkness, right, nobody likes
.
Nobody likes Senator Palpatineor Darth Vader.
Vanessa Grant (33:38):
Right, like, let's face it, Well, I just want
to say that there's a oh sorry.
Fred Cadena (33:43):
I just I was like the principle of criticize in
private, praise in public, right, If you you can have
constructed feedback throughthat privately, praise people
publicly.
Josh Matthews (33:53):
I just absolutely , absolutely.
So with that in mind, fred,everybody should check out David
Lou.
L it's spelled it for me,vanessa, is it L?
L-i-u?
Yeah, check out David Lou,check out his.
You know the work that he'sdone.
His podcasts, his vlog, hisvlog, not podcasts.
His vlogs are fantastic.
Make sure that you're followingthat guy, because that guy is a
(34:14):
real gem and he's a real giftto the ecosystem.
Vanessa Grant (34:18):
Absolutely and you know I, I to that point.
I think it's, I think it's okayto disagree with people, though
I don't think that disagreeingwith people or even disagreeing
with decision sales force makes,or disagreeing with you know,
maybe a change that's been madeto sales force or not liking
(34:38):
something that's happening inthe ecosystem and expressing
those views, I don't.
I don't really see necessarilyan issue with that, unless you
are doing it just to becontroversial, which I have seen
some folks kind of lean into onLinkedIn, which I don't love if
most of their stuff is just oh,let me have a hot take on
something.
But I think if you have athoughtful disagreement with
(35:00):
somebody, it does, I think, helpother people who might be
reading see different sides tosomething.
Different people might seedifferent benefits or or
negatives to to differentsituations, and I think it's
okay to discuss those.
Josh Matthews (35:15):
It is and you should back it up, right, like,
spend five minutes reading acouple articles, like, no, like,
get more than one perspectivebefore you start synthesizing it
, and just remember that, nomatter what your idea is, it's
probably not yours.
You know, most of us justregurgitate what other smart
people have said, who areregurgitating or synthesizing
(35:36):
other thoughts that other smartpeople have said, like that's
the truth of it.
I don't, I don't know if I'veever had an original thought on
this show.
I'll be honest, like I don'tknow, like I learned whatever I
learned I learned from otherpeople.
You know, I might have figuredsome stuff out through the
school of hard knocks, that, butit doesn't mean it's original.
That's just the school of hardknocks.
Here's your degree, right?
(35:58):
Like everyone who graduateswith this is going to know these
five things, right.
So you know, just understandthat you're.
You're not original just forhating on something.
There's nothing original aboutthat.
It's the easy position.
But I love what you said,vanessa.
It's so true, being kind anddisagreeing aren't the same
thing, right?
(36:20):
Sorry, art opposites is what Imeant.
So I think we might have timefor one more question or plug or
whatever, because we're comingup on 90 minutes.
90 minutes shows pretty darngood.
What do you think, vanessa?
You got some more questionsthere, sure.
Vanessa Grant (36:37):
So I have a question that somebody sent in.
They said that they've been aneducator for most of their
career and they're new to IT.
They worked for a small companyas a business analyst and now
have an opportunity to work at acompany's Salesforce business
unit as a project coordinator.
Do we have any suggestions asfar as which paths to choose in
(36:58):
the Salesforce ecosystem forthem?
Josh Matthews (37:03):
Well, so let's hear that again.
So they're currently a BA andthey're looking at being a
project coordinator.
Vanessa Grant (37:10):
So they were a BA for a little bit at a small
company.
They are now going to be aproject coordinator, but they've
been an educator most of theircareer and I think they're a
little bit lost on paths of theSalesforce ecosystem.
Josh Matthews (37:26):
Yeah, I mean I'd want to talk to them to figure
it out, but I mean, are they so?
Is this person on the showright now?
Vanessa Grant (37:34):
No, they're not.
Josh Matthews (37:35):
Okay.
So I mean, I don't know, that'skind of a trick, like you can
go anywhere with that.
I mean, I've always seen PC orBA as the paths to project
management not always, but oftenRight.
So a lot of times people getinto the BA world because they
like the BA work, but reallythey're stepping stone to
project manager and that doesn'tmean that project manager is
(37:57):
better than being a BA.
It's not necessarily better.
It might pay a little bitbetter by a small margin.
Overall, if you look at all PMsand all BAs in our ecosystem or
in tech in general, probablysome additional opportunities
for more senior leadershipcoming from a PM background and
a project coordinator.
(38:18):
Look, if you've been a BA andyou get an opportunity to do
project coordination, which isit's different for every company
, right?
I've always viewed a PC or aproject coordinator as kind of
like a junior project manager.
It's like what a sorcerer is toa lead recruiter, right?
(38:41):
What do you think I mean?
How would you describe it?
Vanessa Grant (38:46):
Yeah, I would agree with that.
I think right now they've got ataste of business analysis and
now they're getting a taste ofproject management, and I think
both of those can go any numberof paths in the Salesforce
ecosystem.
Josh Matthews (39:02):
Yeah, fred, pipe up.
Fred Cadena (39:03):
Yeah, a little contrarian perspective.
I don't usually think of BA asa stepping stone to PM.
I think of BA like a truebusiness analyst, somebody
that's truly in business process, business process documentation
and improvement, and thenbuilding that on the platform as
a stepping stone to solutionarchitecture and business
(39:27):
architecture and being moresophisticated and bringing
technology solutions to bear.
I think that projectcoordination, project management
, program management is adifferent path.
I think that really, I thinkthis is the one you need to get
into core, which is like you'vegot to search yourself in what
you really want to do, becausethose are two very different
jobs where what you're going todo day in and day out is very
(39:49):
different.
Yes, especially in some smallerfirms, project coordinator,
project managers, get hands on,but as those projects and
programs get more sophisticated,you are really managing
resources, managing time, makingsure things are documented,
issue log, making sure thatclients are getting
(40:10):
communication on what's going on.
You're not necessarily gettingdeeper in the platform.
If that's what jazzes you up,then you're moving away from
that.
If you really like projectmanagement and program
management, that's a totallydifferent skill set.
If you're early and you'retrying different things on, go
for it.
If you have a taste of what'swhat I would focus on, what
(40:33):
really brings you the most joy,day in and day out.
Josh Matthews (40:38):
Fred.
I think that makes a lot ofsense.
I can see it both ways.
Most of the BAs that I workedwith and placed over my career
were in the Java or NET stack.
A lot of those folks look, alot of the PMs were managing the
BAs.
I never saw a BA manage a PM.
I've never seen it once.
Just because of that, it's likethis leveling up thing.
(41:02):
Then there's getting a PMPsearch, kind of a pain in the
butt.
It's a lot of work.
It's a lot of work.
You've got to get your 2000hours in documented and so on.
It's not.
You're right, the BA track caneasily go into the solution
architect and on up from there.
But it's sometimes a naturalstep because the BAs and the PMs
(41:24):
work in tandem, so closelytogether, that one wants that
slight pay raise and moremanagerial responsibility.
Go ahead, janine.
Janeen Marquardt (41:34):
Yeah, hi there , I would say that I would agree
, fred, back in the olden dayswhen the BA and the PM were one
thing, then yeah, that would nowprobably be referred to as a
technical project manager,because back before Salesforce,
(41:55):
back in the beginning of tech, Idid wireframes and design and
all of the stuff that we nowcome to think of as BA.
I was a project manager and Idid the PMP and that's what I
was doing.
Now those really are twodifferent disciplines and
recognize two differentdisciplines.
I think of the project managerrole as it really has become a
(42:18):
split where that's very focusedon customer communication,
logistics, management of theproject team and the task and
time and with the I'll call itthe advent or the introduction
of agile the focus has taken oncomplete management of getting
(42:38):
it done and not the technicalside, where the BA really is the
understanding of the technicalaspects of it and the path
towards architecture.
There really is a really strongsplit between those things.
Project coordinator is the pathtowards project manager and the
BA would be more that path inthe more technical direction.
It doesn't mean a PM could haveBA skills or a BA could and
(43:02):
should have PM skills, shouldabsolutely have leadership
skills.
Those are definitelyinterchangeable, but they're
definitely also different tracksand paths and you'll hit a
certain point in time when youmight have to choose.
I think if somebody is trying tomake a choice, it doesn't mean
you have to always be one or theother.
(43:25):
But I think you need to bereally clear.
If you go straight down a PMpath and you're not going to
stay technical and keepupskilling yourself technically,
you will find yourself at apoint in time when you can't.
There are project managers outthere who project manage and
that's what we do, and then theygot to keep their hands out of
(43:46):
the technical cookie jar.
You've got to decide what youlike.
If you like technical stuff andyou want to understand the
Salesforce platform technicallyspeaking, go down that BA path.
But understand how to lead, howto do agile and how to do the
logistics and manage time andpeople Great.
(44:06):
You're always going to be askill you need.
Josh Matthews (44:10):
Yeah, good perspectives, janine, both you
and Fred.
I appreciate hearing both yourvoices today because really I've
been basing all of my responsesbased on stuff I was doing
between five and 20 years ago.
I know it's changing, let'sface it.
(44:30):
Salesforce is its own thing.
This is not dynamics and it'snot Oracle and it's not all of
these other stacks.
It's its own thing.
It's Darwinian.
You split off from the pack andthen you evolve on your own on
this island of Salesforce andit's going to look a little bit
(44:51):
different, even though we usethe same titles across all tech
stacks.
Interesting stuff.
Last questions, and then we'llgive it a little wrap up here
Vanessa.
Vanessa Grant (45:03):
Well, actually I just wanted to add a little bit
to that, if you don't mind.
I actually want to take it backto what Jordan had brought up
when I was discussing histransition from BA to admin to
consultant.
Jordan really whittled it downto tasks that he was good at and
tasks that he enjoyed and tasksthat people kept putting him to
(45:27):
be responsible for.
I encourage folks out in theecosystem, since there are a lot
of different roles and I thinkthat there is such an emphasis
on being an admin and sometimesthat doesn't necessarily feel
like something that fits foreverybody.
It is kind of like the lowestcommon denominator position
(45:51):
sometimes.
I think exploring thesedifferent paths and figuring out
what are those tasks you wantto do and seeing people speak,
reading articles and seeing whatresonates can often help you
figure out what that path isgoing to look like in the future
.
Again, finding those people who,when they like the first time I
(46:15):
saw Richard Cunningham speak atTahoe, Dreaming I almost kind
of like white-knuckled my seatjust because I was so excited to
hear him speak and everythinghe said really resonated to me
and it really validated the paththat I was on.
I think, if you can find thoseresources that you're like.
Yes, I totally agree with thisviewpoint.
(46:36):
I agree with those things and Ilike doing those tasks.
It will help give you someclarity on figuring out where
you want to go.
Even this person who has aneducation background if there
are certain aspects of thateducation background, if there
are certain tasks that they likeputting curriculums together,
if they like instructing peoplethere are roles in the
Salesforce ecosystem for that,too.
(46:57):
It's just a matter of findingpeople that have been on that
path before and seeing what theydid and seeing what jobs
they've had, to figure out yourown path in the ecosystem.
Josh Matthews (47:10):
I love it, man, exactly that.
It kind of begs the question.
Well, if you're an educator,why are you leaving education?
Something about it wasn'tgelling.
There's something going onthere.
We're either running towardssomething or we're running away
from something.
Sometimes it's both.
(47:30):
It's the carrot and the stickand I'm curious well, what's the
stick going on over ineducation right now?
I would say to this person, toJordan's point earlier, that was
an excellent point.
Maybe it was Jordan, I think itwas Jordan, I can't remember,
(47:51):
maybe it was Peter.
But yeah, do what you know, goapply at jobs that are education
organizations and go doSalesforce work for them.
You're going to be a little bitmore in your wheelhouse and a
little bit more the obviouschoice for the job.
That's not a bad thing.
But if you're leaving educationbecause you can't stand it
(48:13):
anymore, well, you might want toget just as far away from it as
possible.
Right, might be a harder roadto go and you might find that
the same challenges you had inthe industry you're in right now
are completely dependent not onthe industry but on the manager
that you have, on the companypolicies, like whatever.
You can find reasons for anyjob to not be awesome or any
(48:37):
industry to not be awesome, butyou can also find great reasons
why any industry is great too.
It's a real personal decisionand I always hate those
YouTubers who do reviews andthey're like.
At the end of the day, it'spersonal choice and you figure
it out.
Jordan Nelson (48:51):
It's like well, thanks for nothing.
Josh Matthews (48:52):
Just tell me what to do, I'll go buy the thing.
It's no different here.
I'm like, yeah, you can doanything you want, Just go try
it.
Who cares?
Who cares?
It's a long life, Most of us.
We're not going anywhere for awhile.
You can afford a year as aproject coordinator somewhere
and if it doesn't work out oryou don't like it, you can leave
and do something else.
(49:13):
Now you get to say you were aproject coordinator and you've
got all of those skills.
Who cares?
It doesn't matter.
People spend so much time tryingto make the right choice first
and let's face it, they're onlyright about half the time.
Thank God for that.
Thank God for that, because ifthey were right all the time,
(49:33):
they'd never learn a damn thing.
We learn most when we are insituations where there's some
sort of resistance, discord.
It's a problem that we knowwe've faced in the past, but we
didn't solve it well before.
What can we do differently thistime?
(49:53):
It doesn't really matter, let'sgo out.
I'd say it's more important tolike the people that you're
working with and not hate thework that you're doing than to
love the work that you're doingand not like the people that
you're doing it with.
Does that make sense?
That's me.
Vanessa Grant (50:12):
I totally agree with you.
It's okay to take opportunitiesthat maybe don't seem like a
perfect fit, just to see if theydo fit.
Everybody knows me as abusiness analyst.
That's the skill set that Ifeel very comfortable with, but
I'm currently on a project as aScrum Master.
Yes, I have a Scrum Mastercertification, but it's my first
(50:34):
time actually being a ScrumMaster and I'm learning a lot.
That is part of this journey.
You have to continuously learn.
Am I going to keep movingforward on this particular path?
Probably not, to be honest, butat least I know myself better
now than I did three weeks ago.
Josh Matthews (50:51):
Exactly.
Yeah, go jump out of anairplane, go run a really long
race, Go be a projectcoordinator, go be a Scrum
Master for three months or sixmonths.
It's all just going to beenriching, no matter what.
You're going to come out with acouple cool stories to tell.
Laugh about, cry about lessen,learn, you'll be all right.
Don't overthink it.
(51:12):
I watched the dumbest movielast night.
It was called 65.
I don't know if you've heard ofit, but I watched it on the
airplane.
I say last night, it wasactually about one in the
morning on the airplane.
It's Adam Driver, is from somealien world and he lands on
Earth 65 million years ago, ageof the dinosaurs.
(51:33):
He's got this little.
It's basically like true gritplanet Earth 65 million years
ago.
He's got this little girl who'slike parentless and they've got
to find their way to the escapepod.
It's one of those adventures.
What's your story, kirby?
Janeen Marquardt (51:49):
I watched the other movie.
Josh Matthews (51:51):
What's that?
Janeen Marquardt (51:52):
I feel like I saw this movie.
Josh Matthews (51:53):
Do you see what I mean?
You feel like, but it's suchnot a great movie that why would
you remember it?
Vanessa Grant (52:00):
Adam Driver.
Of course, I got recommended towatch this movie, but not
because of the dinosaurs, let mejust put it that way.
Josh Matthews (52:05):
Look, he's a good looking guy, I'll give him that
Some of it.
The principles are kind of cool, except that it's still a
stupid movie At the end of theday.
He kept this girl.
She basically had one rule thathe was trying to convey to her,
and they spoke differentlanguages.
(52:26):
That was the whole story in andof itself, a whole trial, that
one thing that he was trying toget her to do.
Just two things.
One was the sign for be quietso that the monsters don't hear
us.
It's a monster movie, let'sface it.
That's what it was.
It was a monster movie.
It's Godzilla, just donedifferently.
The other one was move, keepmoving, no matter what, keep
(52:48):
moving.
Do those two things.
Just keep moving, keep quiet,get it done.
I don't mean keep quiet, don'thave a voice, I just mean go to
work.
People, you're brand new.
They tell you what to do, go doit.
You got a problem with it.
Ask the question.
I tried to do it.
It didn't work out.
This is what happened.
How else can I do it?
This is what I researched.
How else can I do it?
Just keep moving, though.
(53:10):
Make decisions, adapt or die.
Nobody knows this, but we don'tembody it on a daily basis.
People get so hung up.
I know this for a fact becauseI was just talking to Ollie, my
youngest son.
He's 17.
We were all out to dinner meand Charlie and Ollie, my two
(53:31):
boys and we were up in Portlandwith a couple of my best friends
.
One of them asked him somethingabout college.
Where is he going?
He just said look, I just don'teven want to talk about it
right now Because it's stressful, because it's this big monster,
huge decision.
His older brother piped up.
Charlie said and I thought itwas really smart.
(53:52):
He's like dude, I know thefeeling.
Trust me, it feels superstressful.
Now, once you get into collegeand you decide that's where I'm
going to go, I promise you,college is way easier than this
whole idea of getting intocollege and figuring it out and
making this huge decision.
It's going to change your life.
It doesn't matter you go toFlorida State or Oregon State or
(54:14):
University of Florida orUniversity of Oregon.
You're going to meet about thesame number of people.
You're going to have about thesame level of education.
You're going to have about thesame quality of courses.
You're going to have about thesame job prospects.
Now, it's a little bitdifferent if you're an engineer
and you're going to Cal Poly,your MIT.
(54:34):
It's going to be a littledifferent if you're a computer
scientist, I think, going toUniversity of Phoenix.
Let's face it, that's the truth.
But for the majority of us itdoesn't matter.
You just need to get yourdegree.
It's like you need to get youradmin cert.
It's like you need to get youryou know, office video cert or
whatever.
Just make the decision anddon't stop moving forward and
you're going to be fine.
Last final words of wisdom Onelittle, give us a golden nugget,
(54:59):
buddy.
Jordan Nelson (55:02):
Put me on the spot.
I don't know.
I'm on the spot.
Josh Matthews (55:04):
You knew you were going to be on the show, get
out of here.
Jordan Nelson (55:06):
I don't know what to leave everybody.
You have to golden nugget.
That's the pressure.
No.
I think everything that you guyshave all said is great.
I think the thing that I wantedto double down on that I heard
you start saying with thatexample of like the musician and
yeah, definitely to Vanessa'spoint too Like we can always
disagree I think there's thatthing I've doubled down on is
(55:28):
when you are going through thatjourney, if you do choose to
post on socials, stand out.
You're never going to getcriticized by somebody that's
above you.
You tend to only get criticizedby people that are either at
your level or below you.
As Josh said, the person that'sgetting all the likes and has
already spent the time todevelop the social media
presence.
(55:48):
They're not going to care whatyou put on there for your first
post or second post.
They're going to be pumped thatyou're doing it.
I would just say to double downon that.
Remember that as you're goingthrough your journey.
Josh Matthews (56:00):
That's excellent, jordan.
I'd like to thank you so muchfor being on the show.
I love you, buddy, you'realways welcome here.
I want to give our friend, mrFred Cadena, a chance to just
share with us what his latestpodcast is about, so everybody
who's listening to this can gocheck that out.
It's called Cross-Pollination.
Fred, what's your next podcastthat you're going to be released
(56:21):
, or the most recent one youreleased about?
Fred Cadena (56:24):
Last Thursday we released one with John Cahay-Gun
he is the Chief Data Officer ofBCU Credit Union in Chicago
talking about Salesforce thepotential transformation of the
important event in data-writeAwesome episode.
I'll also just put a quickplug-in.
Two weeks from now, I'm at WestDreaming.
I will be there along with 700of my closest friends.
I am giving a talk onleveraging LLM in making best
(56:49):
practice sales for solutions.
If you're interested, come andjoin that session.
Janeen Marquardt (56:55):
Anthony and I will be there too.
We're scuba divers.
Fred Cadena (57:00):
I am also a scuba diver.
Janeen Marquardt (57:01):
I saw that.
Josh Matthews (57:03):
You guys could have a Salesforce scuba diving
podcast.
I like it.
Yeah, mashup, scuba, salesforcemashup so sweet.
So listen guys.
If you haven't had your fill,you're like, wow, it's been
almost two hours of contenttonight here on the show and you
just can't fall asleep untilyou get another 45 minutes in.
Go check out the latest podcastthat we just dropped a couple
(57:27):
hours ago.
It's the Salesforce Career Showon your favorite platform.
Make sure that you like,subscribe all that other good
stuff and we'll be back in twoweeks with another awesome guest
and our terrific panel that'shere all the time.
And if you would like to be aguest on this show, you can do
one of two things.
One show up to the live show.
(57:47):
That's all you got to do.
Just show up, raise your hand,we'll bring you on the stage and
just start piping up.
It's literally that easy.
That said, if you're a subjectmatter expert around some area
of Salesforce and you wouldreally like to share your
knowledge on this one specificsector, particularly if it's
related to Salesforce careers,leveling up, improving your
(58:09):
career, anything like that Thenby all means go ahead and reach
out to me directly, josh, atthesalesforrestrecreatercom, and
share with me what you'd liketo talk about and we'll see if
we can't get you on the show andhighlight some of your
knowledge.
All right, with that, goodnight to everybody.
Have a wonderful, wonderfulcouple of weeks.
(58:29):
We'll be back here in two weeks, on Wednesday at 2.30 Pacific,
5.30 Eastern.
Bye for now.
And now the number one audio program that helps you
to hire, get hired and soarhigher in the Salesforce
ecosystem.
It's the Salesforce career showwith Josh Matthews and Vanessa
Grant.
Josh Matthews (00:20):
Okay, welcome back everybody.
It's part two of our sessionswith Jordan Nelson.
I'm your host, josh Matthews,my co-host, vanessa Grant.
I run theSalesforcerecruitercom.
You've got some amazing jobs upthere right now.
So go ahead and go to theSalesforcerecruitercom, forward,
slash j-o-b and if you'rereally interested in building
(00:42):
your community, really learningmore about who are the voices in
our ecosystem that are reallystanding out, well, we've
compiled the list, and by we Imean Vanessa Grant and myself
have compiled a list ofintelligent, smart people and
links to all of these smartpeople, whether it's on YouTube
or podcasts like Fred Kdenis gothis disruption podcast, which
(01:05):
is fantastic.
So you can find all of these atexpandexchangecom.
So go visit expandexchangecomand it's our hope that by the
end of the month our brand newwebsite's out and the navigation
will be even easier.
So check that out.
But here we are.
We're ready to dive into parttwo with Mr Jordan Nelson.
Jordan's out of Utah, close toLehigh, and he's been sharing
(01:30):
his experiences of growing afollowing of 85,000 people just
incredible and also histransition from being an
employee to having his, to doinghis own sort of on-the-side
work, of helping others improvetheir LinkedIn presence and grow
their personal Salesforcecareers, and now he's got his
(01:51):
own Salesforce consultancy andthe floor is now open, wide open
, for questions and input fromeverybody on our panel here.
And, by the way, vanessa, maybeyou can share, if someone has a
question, what they might wantto do.
Vanessa Grant (02:05):
Sure, if anybody has a question, feel free to
send me a DM.
On Twitter, it's RL, vanessaGrant, or on LinkedIn Reel
Vanessa Grant, and happy to aska question on your behalf.
If you are not here, live withus.
Josh Matthews (02:20):
Okay, so if anyone does have a question, go
ahead and ask.
Now you can raise your hand.
Vanessa, do you have anyquestions that you've received
so far during this show?
Vanessa Grant (02:29):
I did.
I've been asking, I've beenthrowing it up on socials to see
if folks have questions aheadof time.
So I do have a few.
Josh Matthews (02:35):
Let's dive right in.
Let's dive in.
Vanessa Grant (02:39):
So first of all, I'll ask, if you are a newly
certified administrator and donot have a background in tech or
in Salesforce, what are thebest strategies to break into
the industry, given the jobmarket and current economic
climate?
Josh Matthews (02:52):
Oh man, who wants to weigh in on that?
Jordan, go for it bud.
Jordan Nelson (02:58):
I don't know if I have the greatest curiosity
probably you.
But no, I would just say kind ofgoing back to like what we
talked about today, even thoughthere's still a lot of people
like creating content, I stillthink, like trying to figure out
some kind of way, whether thatis through content or even just
like a website, you only have itpublished for when you try to
(03:20):
take an interview, somethingthat will allow you to kind of
have proof ahead of time.
I think for me, what I'verealized with the business and
with finding jobs and any luckwith any of that, is that kind
of social proof is always key.
So like when you go to Amazon,when you look at Amazon and you
go to buy a product, like payattention to, just like what the
(03:41):
landing page looks like.
It's like a ton of stuff, likereenoffing your brain to try to
get you to buy the product,where it's like this is how many
reviews we have and these arewhat the people have said about
it, and this is going to onlylast for a day before the sell
is over or whatever.
So the more you can kind ofrecreate that same type of idea
online, I think it makes it alittle bit easier, and
(04:01):
especially if you don't have,like the background to lean on,
the more you can kind of provethat you know how to do this at
a time.
I think that makes thingseasier in the long run.
But I'd probably refer to Joshon this one for sure.
Josh Matthews (04:13):
Yeah, I'll tell you, I'm not a real expert in
this.
I mean, I like to be an experton certain things, but breaking
into a new industry is notsomething that I'm necessarily
like.
I wouldn't say like I'm thevoice of that or anything like
that.
But what I will share is thiswhen you just don't have the
experience you've got thecertification, but you don't
have the background you're at adisadvantage.
(04:35):
The first thing I like to askpeople is like well, why did you
even join this?
What tempted you to turnwhatever career trajectory you
were on and point it in anotherdirection?
Can you answer that question?
Do you love technology?
If so, what about it do youlove?
(04:56):
Is it the people?
Is it the thing?
Is it what it can do?
Or are you in this just so thatyou can wear pajamas to work in
your home office and you don'thave to go into another business
anymore?
So you've got to really answerthose questions for yourself.
And the next thing is basicresearch and involvement.
(05:19):
If you're behind the eight ball,meaning if it's going to be a
little bit more difficult foryou to get a win, to stand out
from the crack, let's face itthere's thousands of people with
Salesforce admin certificationsthat aren't working in the
ecosystem.
Thousands of people who alreadyhave a background in tech and
(05:41):
want to make a transition fromwhatever stack it is into
Salesforce, and they maystruggle to break it.
The people who tend to makethat move are one, they're
willing to get paid less.
Two, they're willing to do whatthey're told.
So you've got to be kind ofjust ask yourself do I take good
advice from good people and doI follow through on those
(06:03):
recommendations?
At the end of the day, ifpeople just take the advice and
then do the work, they're goingto succeed.
It might take them a littlelonger, it's okay, there's
nothing wrong with that.
Think how long it takes to get acollege degree.
That might never have actuallysupported your career in the
first place, other than nowyou've got a degree so you can
apply to this job.
So you've got to put the timein and you've got to be willing
(06:25):
to let go of some of the incometo get the education.
So be willing to do that andyou've got to stand out for some
reason or another.
And I think I don't know if itwas the last.
I think, if you go back andlisten to the military podcast.
We had two in a row with DaveNava and Ryan.
(06:48):
I think you're going to see,it's just like that advice that
we give to the militaryprofessionals who are making the
transition applies to anyone.
You don't have to have been inthe army or the Navy or the
Marines or the Air Force I thinksome of our awesome listeners
on this show right now.
Okay, but you just follow thatadvice.
So this has been answered.
(07:09):
Before I would just check outsome of the past podcasts.
That's what I would say.
Go ahead, fred.
Fred Cadena (07:14):
Sure and 100% agree with both what you and Jordan
shared.
The one thing I would say isand if I remember the question,
they said they didn't have atechnology or Salesforce
background.
They didn't have a consultingbackground.
I would ask them what?
is the background that they had.
I'm sure there's a reason toyour point, josh.
They pivoted away from that andthat may not be where they want
(07:35):
to stay, but that could be agood place to start their
Salesforce journey.
So if they came out of a careerin retail, maybe go to a
consulting firm that specializesin retail implementations for
Salesforce and bring thatexpertise from working in that
industry to that role and maybewhat you are lacking in years of
(07:56):
experience on the platform youcan bring from that industry
background or if you were in themilitary or if you were in XYZ
before.
Bringing that to help bridgesome of that skill gap can make
it a little bit easier forsomebody who want to take a risk
on somebody that maybe has notheld a professional position in
Salesforce until today.
Josh Matthews (08:14):
That's right.
Just capitalize on yourindustry, whatever that is.
I mean, jordan made a cleanbreak from vinyl wrapping cars,
but he'd also done some techbefore, so let's just ask Jordan
that real quick.
And then we've got questionsfrom Peter Gonsen next, and then
Vanessa.
But Jordan, I mean, how did youbreak into tech in general,
(08:40):
nevermind Salesforce?
Jordan Nelson (08:42):
Yeah, yeah.
So I wasn't really in thatindustry.
I had asked the Salesforceadmins that I knew of at Walmart
eCommerce I was not really onthat side of things that I asked
and, honestly, yeah, I juststarted applying, for I happened
to live in an area too where alot of tech was popping up here
in Lehigh.
So, talking with a few people,they're saying that was the
(09:05):
place to try to apply.
So I really just focused myefforts on.
All the applications I put inwere for that industry.
I didn't try to spread it sothin so that way, if it did land
, it was going to be in theindustry I wanted to be in.
Josh Matthews (09:20):
Excellent Peter.
Caller (09:23):
I get this quite often.
I'm with Jordan.
There's so many people outthere getting the certifications
and all that kind of stuff,which is great, but prove it,
make something, build something.
Whether you have experience ornot, you need to have the proof
is in the pudding, so you can'tjust rely on the background, the
(09:45):
experience or how many numberof certifications you got to
prove it and be able to showsomething and make it relevant.
If you want to get into withtheir retail, build something,
retail related, that's reallythe best thing.
Josh Matthews (09:59):
I tell people to be able to break through the
noise right now.
I like it.
I mean, everybody comes fromsomething.
It's all six degrees ofseparation, whether it's people
or industries, so that makes alot of sense.
Go ahead, vanessa.
Vanessa Grant (10:15):
So I was just going to throw in.
I think there still is a needto do the basics where, if you
are making a complete careertransition, you have to go all
in.
Part of that is optimizing yourLinkedIn.
So you are obviously aSalesforce person.
That might be difficult to doif you don't have any experience
(10:37):
in IT, if you don't have anyexperience in Salesforce.
That's where I think connectingwith other people in the
community, looking at jobpostings that you might be
interested in.
What do those entry-level roleslook like?
Who are the people who maybeare a step or two or even five
ahead of you on this journey?
What kind of words are theyusing?
Have you built up thevocabulary so that you can get
(10:59):
your search engine optimizationon point for your LinkedIn?
Do you have a good photo?
Do you have a good cover?
Is your resume updated so thatyou're really just focusing on
those skills that aretransferable?
Based on the research thatyou've done on Salesforce jobs,
I think all that is stillrelevant.
But of course, now with thestate of the industry, which is
(11:21):
part of the question, yes, I dothink that to accelerate your
career journey, you do have todo that little bit of extra,
since the market is verycompetitive right now.
Josh Matthews (11:33):
Absolutely yeah, do your research, people.
It's on Google.
Figure it out, you'll figure itout.
Jump on expand exchange.
Literally, that is the fastestway to start getting connected
with experts.
And to Jordan's point in partone of this podcast we're on
part two right now.
It really talks about modelingwhat you do after other people
(12:00):
who've done it successfully.
Right, and it's a basicprinciple in business do what
you know already works.
You don't have to figure thisall out for yourself.
I mean, that would be anightmare.
I don't even know a lot ofpeople who are smart enough to
do that.
I don't think I would be.
So, yeah, just model others.
Anthony, thanks for being onthe show.
(12:22):
Let's have you up becauseyou're fairly new to the
ecosystem and you came fromdoing awesome karate chops and
having your own dojo and thennow you're a Salesforce pro at a
reputable consulting firm.
So tell us your story realquick.
What did you do?
Anthony Rodriguez (12:39):
Well, I didn't do any one thing.
It was like a mountain ofthings that finally came
together.
I got a mentor, which startkicked me off and a lot of
people don't know this but I gotto talk with the legendary Josh
Matthews.
I thought I knew how to write aresume, I thought I had a
competitive resume, and whenJosh reviewed it, he made me
(13:04):
realize I'm throwing the kitchensink at this, but I'm not
telling that future job why I'mthe best choice for them, what
exactly is my value and where ismy passion?
And how were those two thingstied together?
So I had to go back to squareone after Josh helped me get
back in line and I redid myresume, highlighting the exact
(13:26):
value I can bring if they wantto give me an opportunity.
And so I just want to say that,yeah, going back to the basics,
when you're trying to breakinto the ecosystem, that resume
needs to be dialed in 100%.
And for those who have neverbeen, if there's a local
dreaming event, you got to putthat on your radar.
The networking that that'sFaceTime Just the chance to get
(13:49):
your face out there, say hello,have a casual conversation and
do it right is so, so, so key.
That was one of the big steps,along with my resume being
dialed in, that helped me breakin.
Josh Matthews (14:05):
Yeah, thanks for sharing that, Anthony, and
thanks for the plug.
And look, I don't do resumesfor people.
I guess if I charged five granda pop I'd probably do it, but
I'm not going to.
But they're really good.
They're really good resumewriters out there.
I can recommend a personalscribecom.
Her name's Rosie.
It's kind of an older site, butRosie's dialed mine in over 20
(14:31):
years ago and I got my resumeback.
I was like, oh my God, I'mawesome, I'm so good.
Look at this, so like you canreally make a big difference.
And then another woman that Irefer a lot of folks to,
particularly if you're moresenior.
I don't mean by age, but I meanif you're a director level or
manager director level and above.
(14:51):
I generally recommend peoplework with Jule Bracey Demayo.
That'sJ-E-W-E-L-B-R-A-C-Y-D-D-M-I-O.
Hopefully I spelled that right.
But Jule's fantastic and shewill craft an entire job hunt
program for you, not just yourresume, but she'll work on your
(15:11):
LinkedIn profile for you.
Now, working with a professionalalways takes some.
It costs something, right, andit usually costs more than
anyone is prepared to pay.
But when you are looking atthis like a massive investment
which it is it's one of the bestinvestments you can make.
It's the tip.
It's like how sharp is the tipof your spear?
(15:33):
If it's dull, it's just gonnabounce off of opportunities.
If it's pointy, it'll stick,and that's what you want.
So work with someone who'sreally good at helping you build
that sharp, pointy tip, and Ithink that's going to help you
quite a bit.
So there you go.
Vanessa Grant (15:49):
And for a free resource for folks that might be
a little more frugal.
I actually got a lot of valueand updated my resume a little
bit, based on David K Liu, who'sa Salesforce MVP.
He works at Google, he's adeveloper, but he has a YouTube
video called Steel my Resume,which I found very valuable as
(16:12):
far as how to craft a resume forSalesforce roles and even
though I'm a BA and he's adeveloper or I consult now I did
find his resume reviews and hisSteel my Resume video to be
really helpful.
Josh Matthews (16:29):
Look, I'm with you there.
But I honestly, like I knowthat video and I know David and
I like this guy's done so muchfor the community, like he's
done so much, he's like a lot ofthe people on this show just so
willing to give his time andhis knowledge.
But I actually had some thingsabout the way that he did that
(16:50):
resume that I didn't reallyagree with, right.
So there's always going to bedifferent points of view, but
the most important thing is justfigure out where you're going
to get your information from andfollow their advice.
If you start mish-mashingeverything, if you took all of
David's recommendations and myrecommendations, I don't think
that they would necessarilyblend perfectly well.
Like I just don't.
That doesn't mean that hisrecommendations aren't awesome.
(17:13):
Clearly they've worked well foryou, vanessa, right, but
there's been some.
There were just one or twothings I thought was like just
kind of just skirting the edgeof okay, if that does that make
sense?
Vanessa Grant (17:26):
Well, yes, I would love to hear if you had
any, if you remembered anythingspecific that you didn't like.
I'd be curious.
Josh Matthews (17:32):
Yeah, I'd have to look at it and like I like
David and I like a lot of hiscontent.
But I just remembered somethingabout the steal my resume thing
.
I just felt like it was alittle bit throwing in a little
bit of fluff, sort of hidingsome of the facts under some
shiny words.
(17:52):
Yeah, I'm probably gonna haveto delete this from the podcast
because I really don't want tosay anything negative about
there.
Like, oh my God, like you'll belike dude, what's up with that
man?
Like you wouldn't actually saydude, but you know, like I just
remember a feeling.
I watched this thing and Ilooked at the recommendations
and I reviewed the resume andyeah, I mean that resume got him
(18:15):
into Google.
Guess who else wants to getinto Google?
Frickin' everybody, cause theypay great, the benefits are
great and you know, even if youdon't want to wind up there
forever, you know you get stockoptions and all these wonderful
things.
So it's difficult to get into atop five company, right
Microsoft, oracle, apple, youknow, and Google and so on,
amazon.
So like it's really good advice.
(18:37):
But we've also got to be likereally truthful.
We don't want to hide too, andby truthful I mean we don't want
to ever have to get caught inanything that we said on the
resume and then have to go backand kind of explain why we
explained it that way.
Does that make sense?
Vanessa Grant (18:56):
Yes, and I think that's excellent advice.
Josh Matthews (18:58):
Yeah, I'll tell you a quick story, guys.
I one of my clients.
They were hiring a salesperson.
We don't place a lot ofsalespeople here.
We do it sometimes, but wedon't do it too often.
And the reason why I don't doit too often is because when
you're placing a salesperson,people who are A's or in
business development on averagestatistically will have about
(19:20):
twice as many fibs in aninterview and on their resume as
the average person.
After all, they want people whoare, who are.
You have the gift of gab and orthe gift of spin, right, like
there's an element to that insales and so, like it's.
While I find it forgivable,what's unforgivable is not being
(19:43):
able to figure out where thoseinaccuracies in their
communications are, and that'sour job, right.
So a client of mine was likehey, man, I interviewed this gal
, she did great, but I've gotthese funny feelings from some
of our communications, like shewasn't necessarily listening or
she didn't actually read theemail, that kind of thing.
(20:05):
And I just said, hey, look, man, I'll, why don't I?
Just I'll spend 45 minutes,I'll interview her for you Like
it's a freebie, let me just domy you know quick little
conversation and dig into someof these other points.
And later that day we were.
It was later that day or thenext day we got on a call me and
my client and I said so what'syour understanding of where this
(20:30):
individual is working like andwhy they want to leave?
And they said well, myunderstanding is that they're
not feeling supported and theywant more leadership,
responsibility.
I said, okay, did you know thatthey were fired two months ago?
He's like oh what?
No?
Well, they were for performance.
(20:54):
Of course, I figured that out.
That wasn't too hard.
But a lot of people, whenthey're interviewing, most
people are professionalinterviewers.
There are a lot ofprofessionals.
There's a lot of baristas inthe world who can't make a good
cappuccino.
Just because you're a baristadoesn't mean you're good at it.
Just because you're a recruiteror a hiring manager doesn't
(21:16):
mean you're good at interviewing.
But people lie.
They don't say, they hidethings.
Why wouldn't they?
Because we're imperfect people,all of us.
I'm imperfect, vanessa's not,but I am.
The reality is we've got to getthrough that mud.
We've got to get clarity.
The only way we can do that isby being absolutely committed,
(21:39):
100%, to being willing to thisnot working out.
We talked about this in ourlast session.
Remember, guys, we were talkingabout negotiations, right, fred
?
Remember that conversation?
We had Jason on 100% greatconversation.
Yes, it was a greatconversation.
In fact, it was such a goodconversation that I just did a
(22:01):
proposal for Florida Dreaming toteach negotiating skills to
Salesforce professionals forFlorida Dreaming.
Hopefully Mike and the panelgive a thumbs up on that,
because that'll be great.
I will be going.
If I can't be on that, I'll beon some other panel.
If you go to Florida Dreaming,I'll be there and I'll see you
guys, this idea that you justbelieve what's being said, or
(22:22):
just believe and don't challengepeople, that's the big deal
here.
Guys, when I think about thepeople who are most successful
in the world, they did a coupleof things.
First of all, they challengedthemselves.
They challenged themselves.
It can be anything.
Casey's son Connor he's 25, hejust got his certification for
(22:44):
jumping out of airplanes.
He can now jump out ofairplanes by himself, pack his
own, shoot the whole thing.
This guy went for it.
This guy's a go-getter.
He's just like I'm just goingto do this.
He'll wake up early and go getthree jumps in and then go do a
20-mile run to get ready for his100-mile Moab run.
He's got it.
He's challenging himself.
(23:04):
I love that.
Another thing, part two, isyou've got to challenge others.
Not just challenge them to dobetter, but challenge them for
the truth.
What did you mean by that?
Tell me more.
Just keep talking, keep going.
Who else helped you with that?
You were a project manager on a$5 million implementation.
(23:27):
That's great.
How many PMs were there?
Oh, there were four.
Okay, what percentage?
How much was yours?
Oh, $500 grand.
Out of the $5 million you had10% of this $5 million project.
You don't come to light realquick.
You've just got to be able tohave good questions and, more
importantly, be unafraid to askthem.
When you get an answer thatsounds funny, feels funny, then
(23:48):
just say, hey, that sounds alittle funny.
What did you mean?
Then you'll get to the truth,because we're all walking around
with these personas.
Jordan's got his sweatshirt andjean jacket.
Persona guy, super cool guy.
The fact is, he's a reallysnappy dresser.
Actually.
I know he's throwing up somesmiley faces and laughing right
now, but it's true, we've gotLarry Lee in his buttoned up
(24:10):
suit and tie.
But, larry, you don't wake upand put a suit and tie on every
day, do you?
Probably not.
We've all got these images thatwe're pushing out there and
portraying.
We've got to challenge thoseimages that we're getting.
We've got to challenge thatpersona.
It's a persona.
It's not who we are deep downinside.
Very few of us have the skillsto be able to really be so
(24:33):
authentic that it just is goingto shine through.
I don't even know why.
I'm sorry, I didn't even havecoffee and I'm ranting.
I'm just going to shut up.
Someone asked a question orchime in again.
Vanessa Grant (24:45):
No, I think that was great, Josh.
Actually, you talking about thedrive, I actually just wanted
to bring up something, if I may.
I recently contributed to anarticle on Salesforce Ben.
Mostly just a quote is writtenby Tom Bassett, but it's what I
(25:07):
learned from failing multipleSalesforce exams.
I think in this ecosystem,having that perseverance is huge
.
It's not even necessarily likelet me just accomplish all these
things.
How do you continuously learnand how do you continuously pick
yourself up?
If you are in this industrylong enough, if you are going
(25:29):
for all those certifications,you are going to fail.
Occasionally you are going tohave that project that's going
to be a dumpster fire.
Occasionally You're like, okay,let me just get through it and
I'll still call it a win.
It's really important in thisecosystem To that, and I also
want to give a shout out to oneof our loyal listeners, Tyler
(25:51):
Huff, after a few fails, haspassed his admin exam, which
he's not here anymore on thelive show.
Caller (25:58):
I'm here, actually he's back, he's back no worries.
I actually think I was so tornup I actually had to jump to an
internal client call and I waslike I'm missing the celebrity
fest here, but maybe it wascovered while I was gone.
But if you don't mind, jordan,I had a quick question that I
(26:19):
can.
Can you guys hear me okay?
Josh Matthews (26:23):
Yeah, buddy, you're on Go for it Right on.
Caller (26:25):
Excellent Again.
Jordan, big fan, followed sincemaybe mid to early 2020, back
when you're in the closet with6,000 followers.
If Bradley had to know this,good to see 85,000.
The question is, obviously yougot your system riled up.
You got your thing.
I've tracked it all for yearsnow and you've shown lots of
(26:45):
tips, lots of hacks.
Is it a little bit of?
I mean, the question is likewhat's the secret sauce?
But also it's a little bit oflike Nick Medjuli, like just
keep buying, just keep posting,just be consistent, be the guy
that's always hitting it daily,weekly, monthly, just everyone.
I mean you're the real.
I mean you could think youthink okay, who posted on
LinkedIn consistently aboutSalesforce?
(27:07):
There's probably five peopleeveryone could kind of think of
and definitely I think you'reone of those five, right, I mean
, what do you see from yoursuccess and the numbers behind
the curtain?
And then what do you see fromthe other four people that
you're friends with that arealso on those top five every day
?
Jordan Nelson (27:21):
Yeah, good question.
Thank you for the kind wordstoo.
I appreciate you following foras long as you have.
It's funny.
You referenced that video withBrad that I did like as I got
into the system.
Caller (27:31):
Very few views.
It's only 4,000 views.
It's a hidden gem.
People should go back and findit.
Jordan Nelson (27:38):
Sweet.
Yeah, I think it's definitelybeen a mix.
I think Vanessa kind of startedhitting on it at one point,
josh a little bit as well, butthere's definitely like
something that goes on writtenwhich is like the negativity of
all of it.
I think what ends up deterringa lot of people is they get into
it with the idea of it's goingto give them a job and they're
doing it to help people and then, unfortunately, in the way
(28:00):
social media goes, is you kindof have to start developing some
thick skin because you startgetting comments or you start
reading into the comments toomuch.
People without perspective tryto kind of tear you down.
I would say so.
I think there's one part of it,that which is like once you
figure out that groove, once youstart getting that negativity
or you start reading into thecomments, figure out what's best
(28:23):
for you to not let that deteryou.
For me at this point I mentionedit earlier but I work with a
ghost writer because I couldn'tstay consistent.
I couldn't stay consistenttrying to do whatever I got Call
clients, get all these thingsdone by the end of the week, run
a business and then think ofcontent on top of that of what I
(28:45):
was going to post and get itscheduled out.
It was just it was too much.
So I moved into something elsewhere it still is like my
messaging and my voice, butworking with somebody else to
help kind of get that delivered.
And honestly, yeah, it has.
It is kind of a dumb answer,but it is really a lot of the
consistency, like me just doingthis straight up for three years
(29:06):
and staying on top of it andtrying to look into trends too.
Like there's there is one sideof it too where you got to get
better at it, like you can'tjust keep posting the same stuff
if it's not getting views orit's not getting stuff like that
shouldn't deter you to somedegree.
But the other side is like,well, the point is to get views
so that I can get the job, ormore people can see it so I can
(29:27):
get the leads.
So you do kind of have tofigure it out and be willing to
ship it.
And that's where I want to saythat Josh and Vanessa hit on it
because I still do that to thisday and I think some people are
like afraid of that.
They'll delete the post becauseI got 85,000 followers and I
only got 13 likes.
It's like well, I learnedsomething from it.
Nobody cares the way I said it,like I either use the language
(29:48):
that was crappy or theformatting was bad or the
messaging was off.
So I don't delete it, I let itstay.
So I use that as a learningpoint, like, okay, never do that
again.
So when I pull up my stats, Ican go back and look at the bad
ones too to realize what wasgood, what was bad and how do I
do more of the good.
Does that answer your question?
Caller (30:14):
Yeah, yeah, I did Thank you so much and that was good
and I think definitely less thaneveryone, just to keep it up
and, like you said, you knowyou're doing something right if
you get a lot of negativity,right.
Josh Matthews (30:29):
You know I got a quick story for you guys that's
kind of tied into this, which isabout being keeping things
positive, right andunderstanding.
To Jordan's point that, yeah,like, if you get popular enough,
let's just say what it is.
You know enough followers, it'spopularity, right.
So if you get popular enough,you're going to have some
detractors and or haters orwhatever you want to call them.
(30:52):
So yesterday afternoon I wasover at my friend Ryan Berklin's
art studio and gallery.
He's a famous in the Portlandarea, is a famous artist, he's a
wonderful like long, long timefriend and just he's an ex
marine and he's just like thefunniest dude ever.
(31:13):
And he told me a story abouthow he was.
He was on Instagram and doesanyone here know who Jeff Koons
is.
Jeff Koons is one of the mostwell known modern pop artists
not pop music, but visualartists in America right now,
(31:33):
one of the highest paid artistsof all time.
Some people don't make selltheir artwork for the amount of
money that he does unlessthey've been dead for a hundred
years, but he's figured out,he's figured it out.
So my friend Ryan Berklin, whoI called Berkey, so Berkey was
on his Instagram and someone hadwritten a comment, saying like,
(31:54):
oh, this stuff's not that greatand just kind of like rag.
And I think this other, thisperson who was commenting, was
an artist and they were justbagging on Jeff Koons, which is,
well, it's stupid, right, andto do that stupid, to be
negative.
And Ryan piped up and he saidhey, what's, help me remember
what's the name of that thatartist that used to just like
(32:16):
bag on other artists and gotreally famous.
And the guy responded to thelike oh, I don't know, he's like
that's right, cause that'snever happened.
And then Jeff Koons actuallywrote him.
He's like hey, man, thanks for,like, thanks for the defense.
So he got the.
You know, he actually got.
You know, I'm not saying JeffKoons is his hero.
(32:37):
I don't know if he is or not, Idon't think he is but he has a
lot of respect for him becausehe's the guy who makes those
giant sculptures that look likehuge, shiny balloon animals,
right, but they might be like 15feet high, so like mad props
for that.
So, keeping it positive,ignoring the detractors and sort
(32:59):
of standing up for, for keepingthings moving in a in a good,
positive direction, that's why Ialways hate saying anything
kind of negative about anybodyon this show and I feel, like I
did earlier and I feel bad aboutthat, like it's just, but I,
you know, I think truth isbetter than than kindness.
Sometimes, right, and truthisn't always kind, but that
(33:20):
doesn't mean just bag on someone.
So when you are out there doingyour LinkedIn game, it's easy
to use the the dark side tobecome powerful, but you're just
going to be left with a bunchof darkness, right, nobody likes
.
Nobody likes Senator Palpatineor Darth Vader.
Vanessa Grant (33:38):
Right, like, let's face it, Well, I just want
to say that there's a oh sorry.
Fred Cadena (33:43):
I just I was like the principle of criticize in
private, praise in public, right, If you you can have
constructed feedback throughthat privately, praise people
publicly.
Josh Matthews (33:53):
I just absolutely , absolutely.
So with that in mind, fred,everybody should check out David
Lou.
L it's spelled it for me,vanessa, is it L?
L-i-u?
Yeah, check out David Lou,check out his.
You know the work that he'sdone.
His podcasts, his vlog, hisvlog, not podcasts.
His vlogs are fantastic.
Make sure that you're followingthat guy, because that guy is a
(34:14):
real gem and he's a real giftto the ecosystem.
Vanessa Grant (34:18):
Absolutely and you know I, I to that point.
I think it's, I think it's okayto disagree with people, though
I don't think that disagreeingwith people or even disagreeing
with decision sales force makes,or disagreeing with you know,
maybe a change that's been madeto sales force or not liking
(34:38):
something that's happening inthe ecosystem and expressing
those views, I don't.
I don't really see necessarilyan issue with that, unless you
are doing it just to becontroversial, which I have seen
some folks kind of lean into onLinkedIn, which I don't love if
most of their stuff is just oh,let me have a hot take on
something.
But I think if you have athoughtful disagreement with
(35:00):
somebody, it does, I think, helpother people who might be
reading see different sides tosomething.
Different people might seedifferent benefits or or
negatives to to differentsituations, and I think it's
okay to discuss those.
Josh Matthews (35:15):
It is and you should back it up, right, like,
spend five minutes reading acouple articles, like, no, like,
get more than one perspectivebefore you start synthesizing it
, and just remember that, nomatter what your idea is, it's
probably not yours.
You know, most of us justregurgitate what other smart
people have said, who areregurgitating or synthesizing
(35:36):
other thoughts that other smartpeople have said, like that's
the truth of it.
I don't, I don't know if I'veever had an original thought on
this show.
I'll be honest, like I don'tknow, like I learned whatever I
learned I learned from otherpeople.
You know, I might have figuredsome stuff out through the
school of hard knocks, that, butit doesn't mean it's original.
That's just the school of hardknocks.
Here's your degree, right?
(35:58):
Like everyone who graduateswith this is going to know these
five things, right.
So you know, just understandthat you're.
You're not original just forhating on something.
There's nothing original aboutthat.
It's the easy position.
But I love what you said,vanessa.
It's so true, being kind anddisagreeing aren't the same
thing, right?
(36:20):
Sorry, art opposites is what Imeant.
So I think we might have timefor one more question or plug or
whatever, because we're comingup on 90 minutes.
90 minutes shows pretty darngood.
What do you think, vanessa?
You got some more questionsthere, sure.
Vanessa Grant (36:37):
So I have a question that somebody sent in.
They said that they've been aneducator for most of their
career and they're new to IT.
They worked for a small companyas a business analyst and now
have an opportunity to work at acompany's Salesforce business
unit as a project coordinator.
Do we have any suggestions asfar as which paths to choose in
(36:58):
the Salesforce ecosystem forthem?
Josh Matthews (37:03):
Well, so let's hear that again.
So they're currently a BA andthey're looking at being a
project coordinator.
Vanessa Grant (37:10):
So they were a BA for a little bit at a small
company.
They are now going to be aproject coordinator, but they've
been an educator most of theircareer and I think they're a
little bit lost on paths of theSalesforce ecosystem.
Josh Matthews (37:26):
Yeah, I mean I'd want to talk to them to figure
it out, but I mean, are they so?
Is this person on the showright now?
Vanessa Grant (37:34):
No, they're not.
Josh Matthews (37:35):
Okay.
So I mean, I don't know, that'skind of a trick, like you can
go anywhere with that.
I mean, I've always seen PC orBA as the paths to project
management not always, but oftenRight.
So a lot of times people getinto the BA world because they
like the BA work, but reallythey're stepping stone to
project manager and that doesn'tmean that project manager is
(37:57):
better than being a BA.
It's not necessarily better.
It might pay a little bitbetter by a small margin.
Overall, if you look at all PMsand all BAs in our ecosystem or
in tech in general, probablysome additional opportunities
for more senior leadershipcoming from a PM background and
a project coordinator.
(38:18):
Look, if you've been a BA andyou get an opportunity to do
project coordination, which isit's different for every company
, right?
I've always viewed a PC or aproject coordinator as kind of
like a junior project manager.
It's like what a sorcerer is toa lead recruiter, right?
(38:41):
What do you think I mean?
How would you describe it?
Vanessa Grant (38:46):
Yeah, I would agree with that.
I think right now they've got ataste of business analysis and
now they're getting a taste ofproject management, and I think
both of those can go any numberof paths in the Salesforce
ecosystem.
Josh Matthews (39:02):
Yeah, fred, pipe up.
Fred Cadena (39:03):
Yeah, a little contrarian perspective.
I don't usually think of BA asa stepping stone to PM.
I think of BA like a truebusiness analyst, somebody
that's truly in business process, business process documentation
and improvement, and thenbuilding that on the platform as
a stepping stone to solutionarchitecture and business
(39:27):
architecture and being moresophisticated and bringing
technology solutions to bear.
I think that projectcoordination, project management
, program management is adifferent path.
I think that really, I thinkthis is the one you need to get
into core, which is like you'vegot to search yourself in what
you really want to do, becausethose are two very different
jobs where what you're going todo day in and day out is very
(39:49):
different.
Yes, especially in some smallerfirms, project coordinator,
project managers, get hands on,but as those projects and
programs get more sophisticated,you are really managing
resources, managing time, makingsure things are documented,
issue log, making sure thatclients are getting
(40:10):
communication on what's going on.
You're not necessarily gettingdeeper in the platform.
If that's what jazzes you up,then you're moving away from
that.
If you really like projectmanagement and program
management, that's a totallydifferent skill set.
If you're early and you'retrying different things on, go
for it.
If you have a taste of what'swhat I would focus on, what
(40:33):
really brings you the most joy,day in and day out.
Josh Matthews (40:38):
Fred.
I think that makes a lot ofsense.
I can see it both ways.
Most of the BAs that I workedwith and placed over my career
were in the Java or NET stack.
A lot of those folks look, alot of the PMs were managing the
BAs.
I never saw a BA manage a PM.
I've never seen it once.
Just because of that, it's likethis leveling up thing.
(41:02):
Then there's getting a PMPsearch, kind of a pain in the
butt.
It's a lot of work.
It's a lot of work.
You've got to get your 2000hours in documented and so on.
It's not.
You're right, the BA track caneasily go into the solution
architect and on up from there.
But it's sometimes a naturalstep because the BAs and the PMs
(41:24):
work in tandem, so closelytogether, that one wants that
slight pay raise and moremanagerial responsibility.
Go ahead, janine.
Janeen Marquardt (41:34):
Yeah, hi there , I would say that I would agree
, fred, back in the olden dayswhen the BA and the PM were one
thing, then yeah, that would nowprobably be referred to as a
technical project manager,because back before Salesforce,
(41:55):
back in the beginning of tech, Idid wireframes and design and
all of the stuff that we nowcome to think of as BA.
I was a project manager and Idid the PMP and that's what I
was doing.
Now those really are twodifferent disciplines and
recognize two differentdisciplines.
I think of the project managerrole as it really has become a
(42:18):
split where that's very focusedon customer communication,
logistics, management of theproject team and the task and
time and with the I'll call itthe advent or the introduction
of agile the focus has taken oncomplete management of getting
(42:38):
it done and not the technicalside, where the BA really is the
understanding of the technicalaspects of it and the path
towards architecture.
There really is a really strongsplit between those things.
Project coordinator is the pathtowards project manager and the
BA would be more that path inthe more technical direction.
It doesn't mean a PM could haveBA skills or a BA could and
(43:02):
should have PM skills, shouldabsolutely have leadership
skills.
Those are definitelyinterchangeable, but they're
definitely also different tracksand paths and you'll hit a
certain point in time when youmight have to choose.
I think if somebody is trying tomake a choice, it doesn't mean
you have to always be one or theother.
(43:25):
But I think you need to bereally clear.
If you go straight down a PMpath and you're not going to
stay technical and keepupskilling yourself technically,
you will find yourself at apoint in time when you can't.
There are project managers outthere who project manage and
that's what we do, and then theygot to keep their hands out of
(43:46):
the technical cookie jar.
You've got to decide what youlike.
If you like technical stuff andyou want to understand the
Salesforce platform technicallyspeaking, go down that BA path.
But understand how to lead, howto do agile and how to do the
logistics and manage time andpeople Great.
(44:06):
You're always going to be askill you need.
Josh Matthews (44:10):
Yeah, good perspectives, janine, both you
and Fred.
I appreciate hearing both yourvoices today because really I've
been basing all of my responsesbased on stuff I was doing
between five and 20 years ago.
I know it's changing, let'sface it.
(44:30):
Salesforce is its own thing.
This is not dynamics and it'snot Oracle and it's not all of
these other stacks.
It's its own thing.
It's Darwinian.
You split off from the pack andthen you evolve on your own on
this island of Salesforce andit's going to look a little bit
(44:51):
different, even though we usethe same titles across all tech
stacks.
Interesting stuff.
Last questions, and then we'llgive it a little wrap up here
Vanessa.
Vanessa Grant (45:03):
Well, actually I just wanted to add a little bit
to that, if you don't mind.
I actually want to take it backto what Jordan had brought up
when I was discussing histransition from BA to admin to
consultant.
Jordan really whittled it downto tasks that he was good at and
tasks that he enjoyed and tasksthat people kept putting him to
(45:27):
be responsible for.
I encourage folks out in theecosystem, since there are a lot
of different roles and I thinkthat there is such an emphasis
on being an admin and sometimesthat doesn't necessarily feel
like something that fits foreverybody.
It is kind of like the lowestcommon denominator position
(45:51):
sometimes.
I think exploring thesedifferent paths and figuring out
what are those tasks you wantto do and seeing people speak,
reading articles and seeing whatresonates can often help you
figure out what that path isgoing to look like in the future
.
Again, finding those people who,when they like the first time I
(46:15):
saw Richard Cunningham speak atTahoe, Dreaming I almost kind
of like white-knuckled my seatjust because I was so excited to
hear him speak and everythinghe said really resonated to me
and it really validated the paththat I was on.
I think, if you can find thoseresources that you're like.
Yes, I totally agree with thisviewpoint.
(46:36):
I agree with those things and Ilike doing those tasks.
It will help give you someclarity on figuring out where
you want to go.
Even this person who has aneducation background if there
are certain aspects of thateducation background, if there
are certain tasks that they likeputting curriculums together,
if they like instructing peoplethere are roles in the
Salesforce ecosystem for that,too.
(46:57):
It's just a matter of findingpeople that have been on that
path before and seeing what theydid and seeing what jobs
they've had, to figure out yourown path in the ecosystem.
Josh Matthews (47:10):
I love it, man, exactly that.
It kind of begs the question.
Well, if you're an educator,why are you leaving education?
Something about it wasn'tgelling.
There's something going onthere.
We're either running towardssomething or we're running away
from something.
Sometimes it's both.
(47:30):
It's the carrot and the stickand I'm curious well, what's the
stick going on over ineducation right now?
I would say to this person, toJordan's point earlier, that was
an excellent point.
Maybe it was Jordan, I think itwas Jordan, I can't remember,
(47:51):
maybe it was Peter.
But yeah, do what you know, goapply at jobs that are education
organizations and go doSalesforce work for them.
You're going to be a little bitmore in your wheelhouse and a
little bit more the obviouschoice for the job.
That's not a bad thing.
But if you're leaving educationbecause you can't stand it
(48:13):
anymore, well, you might want toget just as far away from it as
possible.
Right, might be a harder roadto go and you might find that
the same challenges you had inthe industry you're in right now
are completely dependent not onthe industry but on the manager
that you have, on the companypolicies, like whatever.
You can find reasons for anyjob to not be awesome or any
(48:37):
industry to not be awesome, butyou can also find great reasons
why any industry is great too.
It's a real personal decisionand I always hate those
YouTubers who do reviews andthey're like.
At the end of the day, it'spersonal choice and you figure
it out.
Jordan Nelson (48:51):
It's like well, thanks for nothing.
Josh Matthews (48:52):
Just tell me what to do, I'll go buy the thing.
It's no different here.
I'm like, yeah, you can doanything you want, Just go try
it.
Who cares?
Who cares?
It's a long life, Most of us.
We're not going anywhere for awhile.
You can afford a year as aproject coordinator somewhere
and if it doesn't work out oryou don't like it, you can leave
and do something else.
(49:13):
Now you get to say you were aproject coordinator and you've
got all of those skills.
Who cares?
It doesn't matter.
People spend so much time tryingto make the right choice first
and let's face it, they're onlyright about half the time.
Thank God for that.
Thank God for that, because ifthey were right all the time,
(49:33):
they'd never learn a damn thing.
We learn most when we are insituations where there's some
sort of resistance, discord.
It's a problem that we knowwe've faced in the past, but we
didn't solve it well before.
What can we do differently thistime?
(49:53):
It doesn't really matter, let'sgo out.
I'd say it's more important tolike the people that you're
working with and not hate thework that you're doing than to
love the work that you're doingand not like the people that
you're doing it with.
Does that make sense?
That's me.
Vanessa Grant (50:12):
I totally agree with you.
It's okay to take opportunitiesthat maybe don't seem like a
perfect fit, just to see if theydo fit.
Everybody knows me as abusiness analyst.
That's the skill set that Ifeel very comfortable with, but
I'm currently on a project as aScrum Master.
Yes, I have a Scrum Mastercertification, but it's my first
(50:34):
time actually being a ScrumMaster and I'm learning a lot.
That is part of this journey.
You have to continuously learn.
Am I going to keep movingforward on this particular path?
Probably not, to be honest, butat least I know myself better
now than I did three weeks ago.
Josh Matthews (50:51):
Exactly.
Yeah, go jump out of anairplane, go run a really long
race, Go be a projectcoordinator, go be a Scrum
Master for three months or sixmonths.
It's all just going to beenriching, no matter what.
You're going to come out with acouple cool stories to tell.
Laugh about, cry about lessen,learn, you'll be all right.
Don't overthink it.
(51:12):
I watched the dumbest movielast night.
It was called 65.
I don't know if you've heard ofit, but I watched it on the
airplane.
I say last night, it wasactually about one in the
morning on the airplane.
It's Adam Driver, is from somealien world and he lands on
Earth 65 million years ago, ageof the dinosaurs.
(51:33):
He's got this little.
It's basically like true gritplanet Earth 65 million years
ago.
He's got this little girl who'slike parentless and they've got
to find their way to the escapepod.
It's one of those adventures.
What's your story, kirby?
Janeen Marquardt (51:49):
I watched the other movie.
Josh Matthews (51:51):
What's that?
Janeen Marquardt (51:52):
I feel like I saw this movie.
Josh Matthews (51:53):
Do you see what I mean?
You feel like, but it's suchnot a great movie that why would
you remember it?
Vanessa Grant (52:00):
Adam Driver.
Of course, I got recommended towatch this movie, but not
because of the dinosaurs, let mejust put it that way.
Josh Matthews (52:05):
Look, he's a good looking guy, I'll give him that
Some of it.
The principles are kind of cool, except that it's still a
stupid movie At the end of theday.
He kept this girl.
She basically had one rule thathe was trying to convey to her,
and they spoke differentlanguages.
(52:26):
That was the whole story in andof itself, a whole trial, that
one thing that he was trying toget her to do.
Just two things.
One was the sign for be quietso that the monsters don't hear
us.
It's a monster movie, let'sface it.
That's what it was.
It was a monster movie.
It's Godzilla, just donedifferently.
The other one was move, keepmoving, no matter what, keep
(52:48):
moving.
Do those two things.
Just keep moving, keep quiet,get it done.
I don't mean keep quiet, don'thave a voice, I just mean go to
work.
People, you're brand new.
They tell you what to do, go doit.
You got a problem with it.
Ask the question.
I tried to do it.
It didn't work out.
This is what happened.
How else can I do it?
This is what I researched.
How else can I do it?
Just keep moving, though.
(53:10):
Make decisions, adapt or die.
Nobody knows this, but we don'tembody it on a daily basis.
People get so hung up.
I know this for a fact becauseI was just talking to Ollie, my
youngest son.
He's 17.
We were all out to dinner meand Charlie and Ollie, my two
(53:31):
boys and we were up in Portlandwith a couple of my best friends
.
One of them asked him somethingabout college.
Where is he going?
He just said look, I just don'teven want to talk about it
right now Because it's stressful, because it's this big monster,
huge decision.
His older brother piped up.
Charlie said and I thought itwas really smart.
(53:52):
He's like dude, I know thefeeling.
Trust me, it feels superstressful.
Now, once you get into collegeand you decide that's where I'm
going to go, I promise you,college is way easier than this
whole idea of getting intocollege and figuring it out and
making this huge decision.
It's going to change your life.
It doesn't matter you go toFlorida State or Oregon State or
(54:14):
University of Florida orUniversity of Oregon.
You're going to meet about thesame number of people.
You're going to have about thesame level of education.
You're going to have about thesame quality of courses.
You're going to have about thesame job prospects.
Now, it's a little bitdifferent if you're an engineer
and you're going to Cal Poly,your MIT.
(54:34):
It's going to be a littledifferent if you're a computer
scientist, I think, going toUniversity of Phoenix.
Let's face it, that's the truth.
But for the majority of us itdoesn't matter.
You just need to get yourdegree.
It's like you need to get youradmin cert.
It's like you need to get youryou know, office video cert or
whatever.
Just make the decision anddon't stop moving forward and
you're going to be fine.
Last final words of wisdom Onelittle, give us a golden nugget,
(54:59):
buddy.
Jordan Nelson (55:02):
Put me on the spot.
I don't know.
I'm on the spot.
Josh Matthews (55:04):
You knew you were going to be on the show, get
out of here.
Jordan Nelson (55:06):
I don't know what to leave everybody.
You have to golden nugget.
That's the pressure.
No.
I think everything that you guyshave all said is great.
I think the thing that I wantedto double down on that I heard
you start saying with thatexample of like the musician and
yeah, definitely to Vanessa'spoint too Like we can always
disagree I think there's thatthing I've doubled down on is
(55:28):
when you are going through thatjourney, if you do choose to
post on socials, stand out.
You're never going to getcriticized by somebody that's
above you.
You tend to only get criticizedby people that are either at
your level or below you.
As Josh said, the person that'sgetting all the likes and has
already spent the time todevelop the social media
presence.
(55:48):
They're not going to care whatyou put on there for your first
post or second post.
They're going to be pumped thatyou're doing it.
I would just say to double downon that.
Remember that as you're goingthrough your journey.
Josh Matthews (56:00):
That's excellent, jordan.
I'd like to thank you so muchfor being on the show.
I love you, buddy, you'realways welcome here.
I want to give our friend, mrFred Cadena, a chance to just
share with us what his latestpodcast is about, so everybody
who's listening to this can gocheck that out.
It's called Cross-Pollination.
Fred, what's your next podcastthat you're going to be released
(56:21):
, or the most recent one youreleased about?
Fred Cadena (56:24):
Last Thursday we released one with John Cahay-Gun
he is the Chief Data Officer ofBCU Credit Union in Chicago
talking about Salesforce thepotential transformation of the
important event in data-writeAwesome episode.
I'll also just put a quickplug-in.
Two weeks from now, I'm at WestDreaming.
I will be there along with 700of my closest friends.
I am giving a talk onleveraging LLM in making best
(56:49):
practice sales for solutions.
If you're interested, come andjoin that session.
Janeen Marquardt (56:55):
Anthony and I will be there too.
We're scuba divers.
Fred Cadena (57:00):
I am also a scuba diver.
Janeen Marquardt (57:01):
I saw that.
Josh Matthews (57:03):
You guys could have a Salesforce scuba diving
podcast.
I like it.
Yeah, mashup, scuba, salesforcemashup so sweet.
So listen guys.
If you haven't had your fill,you're like, wow, it's been
almost two hours of contenttonight here on the show and you
just can't fall asleep untilyou get another 45 minutes in.
Go check out the latest podcastthat we just dropped a couple
(57:27):
hours ago.
It's the Salesforce Career Showon your favorite platform.
Make sure that you like,subscribe all that other good
stuff and we'll be back in twoweeks with another awesome guest
and our terrific panel that'shere all the time.
And if you would like to be aguest on this show, you can do
one of two things.
One show up to the live show.
(57:47):
That's all you got to do.
Just show up, raise your hand,we'll bring you on the stage and
just start piping up.
It's literally that easy.
That said, if you're a subjectmatter expert around some area
of Salesforce and you wouldreally like to share your
knowledge on this one specificsector, particularly if it's
related to Salesforce careers,leveling up, improving your
(58:09):
career, anything like that Thenby all means go ahead and reach
out to me directly, josh, atthesalesforrestrecreatercom, and
share with me what you'd liketo talk about and we'll see if
we can't get you on the show andhighlight some of your
knowledge.
All right, with that, goodnight to everybody.
Have a wonderful, wonderfulcouple of weeks.
(58:29):
We'll be back here in two weeks, on Wednesday at 2.30 Pacific,
5.30 Eastern.
Bye for now.
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