Enhancing Career Success through Personal Style: Expert Strategies from Stylist Janet Pak

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Are you ready to uncover the powerful link between style and career success? Join us as we welcome Janet Pak to the show, an experienced stylist, making waves in the fashion industry. Janet spills her secrets on how she helps her clients elevate their personal style to boost their self-esteem, confidence, and ultimately their professional lives. Whether you’re a freelancer working from home or a professional in a top-tier office, Janet’s style tips are designed to be versatile and adaptable, helping you make a lasting impression in any setting, including Zoom meetings!

In this engaging exchange, Janet shares the nitty-gritty of crafting your style, beginning with the very basics – the perfect shirt. She dishes out advice on how to ensure your shirt fits well, looks professional, and is complemented by the right accessories. Moving on to the often dreaded conference attire, Janet breaks down what to look for when selecting pants that are comfortable, yet make a stylish statement. We also delve into the power of subtle changes to our clothing and how this can impact the way others perceive us, attracting the right kind of people and making lasting impressions.

Wrapping up our discussion, Janet focuses on the power of personal style in shaping our careers. She provides insight on finding comfortable and stylish clothing, picking the right shoes, and accessorizing. We also delve into the psychological aspects of style and how to overcome fears of appearing too ostentatious or prioritizing appearances over work. Janet's tips on making gradual changes over time rather than a complete 180 make this episode a goldmine for anyone looking to enhance their personal style, and in turn, their professional image. So let’s get started – it’s time to upgrade your style for career success!

Episode Transcript

Announcer (00:02):
And now the number one audio program that helps you
to hire, get hired and soarhigher in the Salesforce
ecosystem.
It's the Salesforce Career Showwith Josh Matthews and Vanessa
Grant.

Josh Matthews (00:20):
All right, well, welcome everybody.
This is your host, joshMatthews, and our wonderful
co-host, vanessa Grant, might beable to show up a little bit
later on, but you can't make itright away, but we have Peter
Ganza in her place.
Peter is a regular on the show.
He's regular on the panel.
We've had an opportunity tohang out and spend time at the

(00:40):
Life Sciences Dreaming down inFort Lauderdale just this past
season, and so if you have aquestion on our live show, what
I'm going to ask is you raiseyour hand and I'll call you up,
and if you are a little bit shy,don't worry about it, it's okay
, that's what Peter's here for.
You can just go ahead and DMhim a message on Twitter, okay,
or X-spaces or X, whatever it'scalled.

(01:02):
So that's all you got to do.
Today's a special day becausewe're doing a real departure
from our normal topics.
Our normal topics, ourSalesforce and careers.
Go figure, today we've gotJanet Pack, and Janet and I had
an opportunity to hang out andmeet when I ran a live podcast

(01:24):
from the Home for Marketersbooth sponsored by Cercante
during Dreamforce, and she wasin the audience and she came up
and she asked a question.
We had a nice little discussion.
If you go back a few podcasts,you'll have an opportunity to
listen to that one.
It had a marketing focus.
Today's episode is reallyfocused around style personal

(01:45):
style.
Okay Now, janet has five yearsof experience as a stylist.
She saw a need forprofessionals to better
understand, have a betterfoundation for how they can
upgrade their image to help themreach some of their personal
and professional goals.
So she's joining us today togive recommendations and advice

(02:06):
to all types of people withinour ecosystem.
So if you are interested inleveling up your style and
believe that it will make animpact on your career, I can
assure you it does have animpact on your career.
How you look and appear toothers matters.
At times it's not the thingthat matters most, but it does

(02:26):
matter.
So, janet, welcome to the stage.
Go ahead and unmute.
Let's get this show rocking androlling.

Janet Pak (02:32):
Thank you so much, Josh, for all the amazing energy
and enthusiasm you're bringingto today's show.
I'm really excited to talk toeveryone and share some really
great tips that everyone can putinto action right away.

Josh Matthews (02:44):
Fantastic.
So first of all, tell us whatis a stylist.

Janet Pak (02:49):
I, as a stylist, my job is to help clients and help
individuals really understandhow they can really upgrade and
use their style to level up intheir personal and professional
goals.
I help them understand theirbody shape, body types and how
they can use the right wardrobepieces to accentuate those

(03:09):
styles and make an impact.

Josh Matthews (03:12):
Fantastic, and when you talk about impact, I'm
assuming that you're not onlydiscussing or talking about how
they appear to others, butpossibly how they feel about
themselves and their level ofconfidence as well.

Janet Pak (03:26):
It's absolutely related to how you feel.
Your self-esteem and yourself-confidence has a direct
impact with what you wear andhow you show up in your personal
or professional appearances.

Josh Matthews (03:38):
Okay, fantastic, all right.
Now I know that you've puttogether a little bit of
information to help the audiencehere and that some of these
tips and tricks or not tricks,but some of these
recommendations and tips to helpthe individuals who are
listening to this program nowidentify where they might be
able to have some improvement.

(04:00):
And it's going to be a littlebit different depending on your
gender and depending on yourstyle and possibly depending on
what country you're in.
Your listen to this show islistened to in over 21 countries
, and so it's going to be alittle bit different.
But you're a US based WestCoast Bay Area resident, but my

(04:20):
guess is that you have someexperience understanding the
difference between Dallas, newYork, and, you know, toledo,
ohio.

Janet Pak (04:27):
Absolutely, and so my tips will be more broader,
depending on your region and thetype of role whether it's more
client-facing or more individualcontributor and depending on if
you're more in the office, ifyou're in the office more often
and versus being permanentlybased at home.

Josh Matthews (04:47):
Okay so let's say we've got someone.
I'm just going to pick a randomname.
Maybe their name's StevenGreger.
Okay so, maybe there's a guynamed Steven Greger and he wants
to upgrade his style.
What's the first thing he needsto think about?

Janet Pak (05:02):
The first thing I'd recommend for Steven is to have
a couple of simple everydaybasics that he can mix and match
for working at home and goingto the office.
Like a well-tailored shirt isnever.
You can never go wrong with awell-tailored shirt, a
button-down shirt and a nicesolid color.

(05:23):
Nothing really bright, nothingbusy, nothing printed, just a
nice like chambray denim or awhite or a light color, because
that really has an impact on howyou feel and makes you feel
more professional, makes youfeel like you're ready to go to
work.

Josh Matthews (05:38):
Okay, so skip the black duster for the office
meeting.
Is what you're saying.

Janet Pak (05:43):
Yes, and skip the flannels and the plaids and the
prints.
Okay.

Josh Matthews (05:49):
You're saying don't wear like a broadcloth,
plaid shirt.

Janet Pak (05:53):
No, no, it's too much .
Simple.
Simple is effortless.
Simple has an impact.
Simple makes you feel polishedand professional and ready to go
in and make an impact on theday.

Josh Matthews (06:05):
Okay, and then now, so many Salesforce
professionals now are on Zoom oron Google Meet right.
It's rare that there's a lot offolks who are walking in the
door and going to an officeevery day, but not as many in
this ecosystem.
So so many of us are on.
Do we mostly just have to beconcerned about the shirt that

(06:27):
we're wearing or the blazer thatwe put on?

Janet Pak (06:30):
Absolutely, and the biggest thing when you're on
Zoom or Google Meet or on youronline conferencing, is really
to have a great shirt that fitswell, like the tailoring.
The fit is like the biggestpiece.
When you're on Zoom, you wantto make, even though you can
only see from the top to thechest down.
It's a great opportunity tomake an impact, and so you want

(06:53):
to make sure that you know allthe buttons are in place,
nothing is sticking out orprotruding and everything fits
well and you're comfortable,because if anything feels like
too tight or too loose andyou're fidgeting the last,
that's the last thing you wantto worry about on Zoom.

Jason Ziekowitz (07:06):
Sure.

Josh Matthews (07:07):
Yeah.

Janet Pak (07:09):
So you want to make sure you're comfortable and the
shirts and the top or the top orthe button down shirt you're
wearing is appropriately fittedfor your size.

Josh Matthews (07:16):
Okay, and now this is going to sound real
basic, but the recommendationsI've always given people for
interviews is it doesn't have tobe expensive.
You know you don't have to wearwhatever a Gucci shirt and you
don't have to shop, even goingdown from there.
You don't have to have ashopping J Crew.
You know you can find gooddeals if you're still kind of up

(07:38):
and coming and money your priceconscious.
Going to J Crew might be tooexpensive for you.
Can you buy a shirt off therack If you know?
Can you buy a shirt off therack and have it tailored?
Or do you recommend one ofthese online measure yourself?
We're going to sew it inVietnam and ship it to you in
two weeks kind of shops thatexist online now.

Janet Pak (08:00):
Josh, that's absolutely a great point.
You don't have to spend overthe top for a simple
professional top or dress shirt.
Something off the rack is verymuch accessible to everyone.
A Gap or a Banana Republic, aunique, low everyday stores
Doesn't even have to be awell-named brand.

(08:21):
Like you could go to Walmartand still buy a nice tailored
shirt.
But it's more important just tomake sure that whichever shirt
you buy, that it fits.
The fit is the most importantpiece, because if the buttons
are protruding out or it lookslike it's too tight or too small
, then you're going to embarrassyourself on.

(08:43):
You're going to feel reallyawkward.

Josh Matthews (08:45):
You're going to feel uncomfortable.

Janet Pak (08:46):
You're going to feel really uncomfortable and I don't
recommend people have to spend.
Go to these online made tomeasure ones starting out.
If you're just starting out andgetting a feel for, like where
you are in your professionalcareer and you're starting out
small, start out small.
Start out very simple.
Like you know, walmart, or youryou know Whole Foods, has a lot
of great dress shirts nowadays.

Josh Matthews (09:07):
Yeah, I wore a shirt made of cheese from there
once.
It was really a fantastic party.
So you can get all sorts ofcool styles.

Janet Pak (09:14):
And they're very well made and they're very
affordable.

Josh Matthews (09:17):
Not a single lap on this silly podcast of ours.

Janet Pak (09:20):
A cheese, yes.

Josh Matthews (09:23):
I was trying to do my Lady Gaga meat dress, but,
ok, all right.
So tell me now, like what?
About people who want toexpress themselves?
Like, what are some do's anddon'ts?
And I guess we're still kind ofthis is genderless here, this
question?
Some people really want toexpress themselves through their
clothing, through their style,but let's face it, not

(09:48):
everyone's personal stylenecessarily reflects the career
trajectory that they want to goin.
So how does someone self assessthat?
Hey, maybe it's over the top,or maybe it's too much, or maybe
it's, you know, maybe you needto accessorize, like I heard a
tip a long time ago which wasladies, you know, don't

(10:11):
accessorize as much, and menaccessorize just a little bit
more.
I mean, what do you think aboutthat?
Do you find that to beuniversally, overwhelmingly the
case?

Janet Pak (10:24):
I find that the less, the less accessories and the
less you, the less accessoriesand the less over the top
personal style you bring, it'sbetter, it's, it still makes an
impact, it still has resonateswith people.
For, for women, I recommendonly you know something very,
very like either we talked youguys, you, you and your guests,

(10:45):
you and your other panelistshost, talked about this on the
live recording about bringing alittle bit like an accessory,
like an earring that's colorfulor something that's very
representative of who you are,or something I tell a lot of
women If they don't, they're notreally into accessories is to
wear like a small pin thatrepresents who they are like,
maybe something related totechnology or something that

(11:06):
they're involved in.

Josh Matthews (11:07):
Sure, yeah, I, every night, before I go to bed,
I put on my vest and put on mySalesforce pin, you know.
So, like that's, that's aregular.
What show is that?
Oh yeah, schitt's Creek.
So I couldn't help myself.
What about, you know, I foundfor myself because I've got long
arms right and so I found thatthere's a couple of different

(11:28):
places that I I like to shopregularly because I don't need
to worry about the lengthanymore, because it's sunny
Florida and almost all of myshirts magically don't have any
sleeves, or at least they stopat the shoulder.
So but I found, you know, formy sort of everyday casual wear,
mountain hardware was my go-tospot because it's climbing gear
and climbers have to reach upand they want to cover more of

(11:49):
your arm when you're reaching,and so it covered my long arms
right and I found that I can getoff the rack at J Crew and like
I don't even have to take it in, it just, it just works.
So, you know, is there aprocess someone can go through
to kind of find their brand thatfits their body type of thing?
People prefer a certain shoecompany because these, this pair
, runs wide and that's good forme, like that kind of a thing.

Janet Pak (12:17):
There are definitely certain brands that cater more
to people who are tall and talland slim and others that have
maybe more curvy or sizers ormore like more curves or more
hips.
And so I recommend, like peoplereally, before they even start
looking to find which brandsit's to look for, they really
take their own measurements andget an assessment and look in
the mirror and kind of liketrace their own body type and

(12:40):
visualize their own bodies, likeassess, like are they have, or
how long their arms are, howlong, how tall they are and how
things fit, and then startlooking at like brands that
specifically cater to thosetypes of fits and height and
sizes.
Okay, and what about for thewomen?

Josh Matthews (13:00):
in our audience.
You talked a little bit aboutmen's shirts, like some like
keep it simple, try to have ittailored or at least fit your
body.
So great advice.
What would you share with ourfemale audience?
For females, for my femaleaudience, I would also recommend
something similar but also withwomen.

Janet Pak (13:17):
for females, you have a lot more options, and so,
whether you're choosing to weara button down shirt or you're
choosing to wear like a colorfullike blouse or something like
that you're choosing to wearlike a colorful like blouse it
still comes down to the fit,because the fit is everything.
If it's too big, if it's toosmall, you're going to feel

(13:37):
awkward, going to be fencingwith it.
You're going to be spending allthis time trying to adjust it
and make it work.
So for the female, I'drecommend also the same exact,
the same principle.
It's like the fit.
It comes down to it.
How does it fit?
How does it feel?
Can you move your armscomfortably?
Do you feel like something issticking out in the middle of

(13:57):
your chest, or does it feel likethe sleeves are gaping at your
shoulders?
So doing the whole fit test andtrying out different scenarios
when you're sitting down orstanding or speaking really
gives you an idea if that's agreat top to wear for work or
for Zoom meetings.

Josh Matthews (14:15):
Okay, that makes sense.
Now, I was a big fan of thisTim Gunn show, which he'd just
go in and raid someone's closetand throw away 10 grand worth of
their clothing because it justwasn't fitting what they wanted
for their future, and then he'djust help them shop for like 10
basics.

(14:35):
What are some of the basicsthat you think men and women
should have in their wardrobe?
Just sort of the wardrobeessentials.
So, as someone is looking atreally rebuilding their wardrobe
, this is a good place to start.
So we talk shirts Okay, great,so I don't get up every day and
only put on a shirt.
So what other articles makesense for someone to, if they're

(14:58):
going to curate a new wardrobefrom scratch?
What are some of those itemsthat everyone would want to have
?

Janet Pak (15:06):
Some other great basics that everyone can have,
regardless of gender, aret-shirts like a nice white
t-shirt or a nice white t-shirtor another colored t-shirt,
because you can add on to it.
You can accessorize dependingon your role.
If there are more individualcontributor role, you can add
some accessories to the t-shirt.

(15:27):
Or if you're just a guy, youcan just wear a nice fitted
t-shirt on a Zoom conferencecall and still look presentable.
So t-shirts are really great.
And comfortable pants it'sdepending on if you're working
at home and still going to theoffice.
Having that combination,choosing comfortable, the

(15:48):
in-between trouser andathleisure affordable pants For
men.

Josh Matthews (15:57):
it'd be some sort of golf pant, something that's
breathable but still looks crisp.
Yeah, something flexible.

Janet Pak (16:02):
Yes, that's a trouser pant and there's a lot of those
for women too.
There's a lot of versatilepants that are more like.
There are a lot of versatilepants that are for women, that
can convert into athleisure, toworkwear, that are pockets, that
have belt loops looks moreformal but also very comfortable
in life or active wear likeyoga or other sorts of

(16:27):
activities.

Josh Matthews (16:28):
Okay, all right, that makes sense.
Now I hope it's okay if we justkind of switch here for a
second, because I know thatthere are people in the world
and I used to be one of them.
There are people in the worldthat are really resistant.
It can make them quiteuncomfortable to wear clothing

(16:50):
that's maybe not necessarilywhat you're describing, but
maybe clothing that is a littlebit more adventurous for them,
something that really says likehey, this is me and it's sort of
your uniform a little bit.
What would you say to peoplewho are really struggling to get

(17:10):
out of jeans and a hoodie right, who want to elevate their
career?
The reason why I ask is in ourecosystem there's a lot of jeans
and hoodies going on andthere's nothing wrong with that,
right, there's nothing wrongwith that.
But what shocks me?
This is the part that shocks me, and I'm not judging, but when
I go to conferences this is yourchance to meet 100 people, 200

(17:36):
people, 500 people, whatever itis I see only a small percentage
of people who are actually.
It looks like they thoughtabout it.
They realized I'm going to gomeet a bunch of strangers and
I'm going to be giving off firstimpressions to somewhere
between 100 and 500 or 1,000people, right?

(17:56):
So we're going to Florida Dreamin this weekend, right?
We just came from Dreamforcelast month and I'm shocked by
what I see it's like.
This is a professionalconference.
It costs you thousands ofdollars, or your company
thousands of dollars.
How much of this idea of, like,I'm a jeans and hoodie kind of

(18:17):
person and because I want torelate to all of these other
people in the ecosystem, howimportant is it to relate to
that versus giving an impressionto the other group of people
that are like look, my career isgrowing and I'm climbing a
ladder.
Who's coming with me?
Right?
So what would you say to thelike, when you think about

(18:38):
conferences, how should someoneyou know, maybe in our ecosystem
, in the tech community, does itmatter?
You know, if you're a developerand you're going to something,
honestly, almost nobody cares,right.
But do you think it matters,even on a subtle, subconscious
level, that one person put alittle bit more time and effort

(18:59):
into their conference attireversus someone else who's like
hey, this is me.
If you don't like it, piss off.

Janet Pak (19:08):
Absolutely it matters .
Because you get one microsecondto make an impression at a
conference and even though yourrole is much more casual, say
much more like less customerfacing as a developer, it's so
important to show up like youyou want to mean business, like
you want to make an impact, thatyou are professional and that

(19:29):
you're serious.
Because the jeans and hoodiekind of convey this sort of less
serious, like very sort ofcasual, low key kind of like
maybe wishy washy I'm still akid kind of impression.
And so by just something, justlike all, by just really taking
it, by really making that smallsubtle switch the jeans and

(19:51):
hoodie to maybe even just todark washed, like a nice
tailored, well fitted dark jeans.

Josh Matthews (19:58):
Yeah.

Janet Pak (19:58):
You know a nice button up short, still very
simple and casual and stillmakes a great impression.

Josh Matthews (20:04):
Yeah, I'm going to share one quick comment and
then we'll go to Peter and thenwe'll go to Janine.
You have either comments orquestions here.
You know, look what we wear.
We're signaling to others likethis is who I am and if you're
like me, come talk to me andfeel comfortable with me.
And I never experienced this togreater effect than in the
early nineties.
I was living in San Franciscoand when I moved there I had

(20:26):
long hair long curly hair andthen I shaved my head.
I just skinned it and basicallya crude cut for a while and it
was incredible.
Back then I was hanging out atthe coffee shop, smoking
cigarettes and drawing pictures.
I was an art student so I did alot of that a lot of coffee, a
lot of ink, sketches and a lotof camel lights, to be honest.

(20:47):
So as soon as I shaved my head,the people who would nod at me
and fist, bump me on the streetand say hi to me or come talk to
me in the coffee shopsimmediately changed from the
Rostas and the hippies to themetalheads and the punks

(21:07):
overnight, just because Ichanged my haircut.
No, I'm not saying I like mostpeople, but I like all music
really, and I don't care.
I'm happy to hang out withpunks, I'm happy to hang out
with hippies, I'm happy to hangout with deadheads or people who
love country music.
None of that matters to me.
But it seemed like it wasreally critical, this social

(21:29):
signaling just based on yourhaircut.
I can only imagine that some ofthe folks who are going to these
conferences, they choose theway they dress one because they
want to feel comfortable.
Okay, everybody gets that youcan look nice and still be
comfortable.
I'm a big believer in that.
But these are the people thatthey're trying to attract to
them.
So, for anyone who's listeningright now, if you're trying to

(21:51):
attract different people intoyour sphere, if you're trying to
get recognition or have someoneelse be more open who's in
leadership, or you're trying toget to leadership, it really
starts to make sense to dresslike a leader.
So, peter Gonzo, let's go aheadwith you.

Peter Ganza (22:07):
I love where you're going with this, Josh.
Remember what I was wearing atLife Sciences Dreaming.

Josh Matthews (22:13):
Yeah, beautiful suit.

Peter Ganza (22:15):
Beautiful suit and it's comfortable.
I'm not a big pie guy.
I wasn't going 100% formal,Regardless if you're, it doesn't
matter if you're looking forwork or anything like that.
It's the first impression.
I was comfortable and that mademe confident and it was
memorable.
Right?
People would compliment me onthe shoes.

(22:37):
Oh my gosh, Prada shoes.
Anyway, long story short, Verynice shoes In a conference
setting.
I mean, Salesforce is uniqueand I've done the whole jeans
and how do you think?
That's totally fine.
But if you really want to workon your brand for the long term,
make an impression.
Yeah, it doesn't hurt to dressup, as long as they're

(23:00):
comfortable, especially when itcomes to meeting new people.
So that's my two cents.

Josh Matthews (23:07):
I think those are good.
Two cents and look, it's not abeauty contest, right?
That's not what we're talkingabout here.
You don't have to be gorgeousand you don't have to be super
handsome, but you need to lookclean, put together and you just
need to look like you spentfive minutes thinking about your
choice based on where you'regoing.
Right, Janine, go ahead.

Janeen Marquardt (23:28):
Yeah, it's interesting.
It's kind of a debate.
There's a couple sides to this,so Josh is probably familiar
with this, or anyone who's cometo any of the dreaming events.
This year I've been doing apanel called when your Career
Outgrows the Hoodie and youGraduate to the Trail Blazer.
I love that when we take off ourhoodies and we put on our
blazers and where we're steppingup because we're mid-career and

(23:49):
we're like, yeah, we're just alittle bit too old, we're a
little bit too advanced in ourcareers to keep wearing that
hoodie around to professionalmeetings and we need to wear a
blazer.
But by the same token, assomebody who's going to
something like Dreamforce orwho's going to these conferences
, yeah, it's not comfortable towear a blazer around.
And at Dreamforce you want yourtennis shoes and still have

(24:11):
blisters and problems in my feetand it's not comfortable to
wear, at least as a woman.
I can't speak for men's clothes,but most of women's clothes,
even my blue jeans, are not themost comfortable pair of
clothing that I've got to wearand in fact, this is ongoing
debate with my husband and I.
His comfortable clothes, thethings he hangs around the house
in is blue jeans.

(24:32):
Me it's the sweatpants, it'sthe soft pants, and so the fact
that I'm putting on jeans andgoing out of the house, that is
my dress up clothes.
Frankly, they do not makewomen's clothes comfortable.
And if I'm even showing up inclothes, frankly I'm dressed up
and so, even though I am-.

Josh Matthews (24:51):
But we appreciate you putting on clothes.
That's always-.
Thank you, I thought you'd likethat yeah.
Thank you yeah.

Janeen Marquardt (24:55):
Definitely step up.
I'm dressed, I'm standingupright, I'm out of the house.
So that's definitely animprovement over the last few
years.

Josh Matthews (25:04):
Yeah.

Janeen Marquardt (25:05):
This is a really tough challenge for me,
because I'm definitely a verycasual person.
I don't wear makeup.
And so I feel like I want toshow up.
I want to show them aprofessional and I want to show
them a put together.
I want to show them 12, 16 hourdays on my feet, whether it's a

(25:25):
conference or some othersomething or another.
I'm allergic to eye makeup andthings.
Like you know.
It's going to be black circlesaround my eyes later.
Like this doesn't seem like theway for me to go up.
Sure.

Josh Matthews (25:38):
Let's get Janet's perspective on this yeah, yeah.
And you know my two senses.
You can find comfortableclothes.
You just have to go shopping.
You got to maybe shop longerthan you might not like shopping
, right?

Janeen Marquardt (25:49):
So there's that too.
Have you ever been a woman?

Josh Matthews (25:53):
Not, lately Not lately.
Not this life.

Janet Pak (25:56):
Yeah, Go ahead.

Josh Matthews (25:57):
Janet.

Janet Pak (25:59):
I really can understand, and a lot of my
clients can relate to whatJanine is saying, that women's
clothes can be uncomfortable.
They're hard, they're not cutlike jeans, they're really stiff
and you may not like to wearmakeup because you're allergic
to some of the ingredients inthere.
I had a, so I worked with awoman.
She was a developer and she didnot like jeans either, but she

(26:23):
wanted to look more professionaland look more accessible, and
there are actually a lot ofbrands like a lot of more like
softer fabrics um, gap and a lotof them more mainstream mall
brands like Unique Well, theymake a lot of trousers and denim
that are more softer andthey're not very stiff and
structured.
They're like more trouser jeans.
Um, like Everlane and Gap makea lot of those sort of like more

(26:46):
softer trouser pants and moresustainable, lighter fabrics and
like Tencel and Bamboo.
They're really reallycomfortable and super soft and
they look great as well.
So something to consider alsois looking for a softer, more
sustainable fabrics that mightbe more comfortable and easy to
move around in, especially whenyou're on your feet, for like 16
, 10 hour down, 10 hour days atconferences running around Um,

(27:09):
that's really important.

Josh Matthews (27:11):
So jeans alternatives right.
Like I don't like to wear jeans, like I like they fit great the
moment I put them on and threehours later they're around my
ankles yeah, Like they juststretch out, which means that I
got to wear a big, chunky beltwhich my digs into my belly.
Like, so I I'm not a fan youknow, but so yeah, I like what

(27:31):
you're talking about here, somejust all alternatives.
There's also this thing of justkind of getting used to it.
Right, if you can find theright clothes, then you get used
to it.
You know, I like I had to weara suit for years and it didn't
bother me, like it, just itdidn't bother me.
It was as comfortable as almostanything else.
I wore, um, as long as I got totake off my sport coat most of
the day, roll my sleeves up, youknow, cool off cause I run a

(27:53):
little hot.
Go ahead, peter.

Peter Ganza (27:56):
So I just wanted to chime in on something Jeanine
said.
You know, for dream force I'm,I made the mistake I think it
was my first dream force of, youknow, wearing the suit and
dress shoes.
Oh my gosh, what a mistake,right?
Um, if and I tell my clientsthis, I actually I just did an
article with a partner aboutthis If you're not, you know,

(28:16):
presenting, if you're not, uh,you know, necessarily meaning a
client or a prospect, runningshoes, no question, I like, at
least for, uh, you know, for men, mostly, right, because you're
going to be standing right andyou know you were just there,
right, you're going to bestanding most of the day for the
dreaming events.
Um, it's obviously a littledifferent, right, you're going

(28:38):
to be sitting down quite a bit.
You're not going to be standingon your feet.
So I just want to call out that, uh, that little detail.

Josh Matthews (28:45):
Yeah, that makes sense and they're making.
I don't know if they might bemaking these for women, I
wouldn't know, but I recentlypicked up a nice pair of I don't
know what they are colhons orsomething like that, but it's
really like an athletic soulright With a leather upper.
They look like it's like aparty in the front, business in
the front party.

(29:05):
In the back it's basically amullet shoe right.
It's business up top and at thebottom it's a party because
it's cushy and comfortable.
Go ahead, janet.

Janet Pak (29:15):
I also wanted to address what Janine had
mentioned about the makeup.
A lot of women, like Imentioned earlier, may have
certain allergies or skinallergies towards makeup, but
they don't like wearing likelots of eye makeup.
And something that's reallyreally simple that women can do
or men can do also just brightentheir skin and brighten their
appearance.
It's just to wear like a lighttinted moisturizer.

(29:35):
It has a little bit of color,it has a little bit of a glow
and it doesn't need to be overthe top.
Just a little bit of brightnessreally illuminates your
appearance Okay great, Janine.

Josh Matthews (29:48):
I know you've got your hand up, but I know
Janet's got some more stuff tocover.
So, if it's quick, go ahead andpipe up.
Otherwise we'll come back toyou in just a little bit.
Okay, Janet, go ahead and keepgoing.
More advice morerecommendations.

Janet Pak (30:04):
And also in going back to the makeup part, you
don't have to wear.
You don't want to be wearinglike loads of eyeliner or
mascara.
You just you know, and everyday to make a really great
impact, it really just a tintedmoisturizer does wonders for
everyone, men and women.
It just makes you glow, itmakes you shine, it makes you.

(30:25):
There's no need for eyeshadowor anything extra, just a simple
tinted moisturizer works verywell for all occasions.

Josh Matthews (30:35):
Yeah, yeah, for the makeup of averse, yes, okay.

Janet Pak (30:39):
And what you're saying about the shoe is really
important too.
Like that, you mentioned thatyou bought a Cole Hawn with an
athletic sole athletic, you know, sole A lot of firm women and
men like.
Buying a really solid,well-fitted pair of shoes with a
little bit of cushioning isreally comfortable when you're
on your feet, especially atconferences, going from
conferences or you're speakingor you're going from desk to

(31:02):
desk at the office or floor tofloor at the office really works
wonders and makes you feel socomfortable in light.

Josh Matthews (31:09):
Yeah, and I'll tell you so.
I'm shoeless Joe over here.
I don't wear shoes.
I go to restaurants withoutshoes and you know my feet
aren't gross, they're reallynice.
But, janine, you know to yourpoint.
I mean, I got these reallycomfy shoes, didn't matter.
I still have a black and bluebig toe right foot right now

(31:29):
from Dreamforce.
So it's not always, you know,it's just, and let's face it,
san Francisco is hilly, so goahead.
Janine, I want to come back toyou.
I think you had your hand upfor some time.

Janeen Marquardt (31:40):
Yeah, no, I was just one of the other things
too.
I think that this is a femalechallenge, probably because I
know my husband and I strugglewith this all the time.
He gets on the scale of, oh, Iput on a pound and I'm like,
yeah, there's another 10 poundsfor you.
I mean, my weight fluctuates alot and I've got clothing in
every size, and so the pantsthat may seem like they're

(32:02):
really comfortable today,tomorrow might not be as
comfortable, and so I think thatthat's another challenge that
we face.
Especially for women of acertain age, it's really
difficult to keep the clothingcomfortable.
I mean, josh, you said later inthe day that the jeans around
your ankles have that problemtoo.
So it might be comfortablestanding, it might be not as

(32:25):
comfortable for sitting all day,and so it's like women face
very, very different challengeswith what's comfortable clothing
for what situation?
I mean, if I'm going to standall day, some clothes are fine.
If I'm going to sit all day,some clothes, other clothes are
fine.
If I'm doing both, I'm introuble.
What do I wear?
I mean, this is like these arereally real problems and they're

(32:46):
really silly.

Josh Matthews (32:47):
Yeah, no, yeah, no, that makes sense.
So, janet, you know Jeanine'sgot a really great point.
There are a lot of people inthis world who can fluctuate 10
pounds in a week, right, and sowhat do they do?
Where should they go?
How do they address it?
And you're the guest, so youdon't have to raise your hand,
but thank you for being polite.

Janet Pak (33:06):
Okay, thank you for that.
I wanted to address Jeanine'sconcern about women's sizes
fluctuating and findingcomfortable clothes and how to
adapt to that.
I recommend a lot of whenyou're shopping to look for
pants.
There are a lot of pants thatare softer and that have stretch
and they're more comfortableversus like more structured,

(33:27):
stiff fabrics like traditionalkhakis or chinos or like dress
pants.
So, looking for somethingthat's got some stretch,
especially at the waist.
There's a lot of trousers a lotof clothing manufacturers are
making like dress pants thathave an elastic stretch
waistband, that look likeregular pants as well, but they
have a little bit of an extrastretch.

(33:48):
So finding something with thatlittle extra give gives you a
little bit more room to wiggleand move and work with as things
fluctuate up and down.

Josh Matthews (33:59):
And are there brands that come to mind so
people don't have to go to fivedepartment stores and spend
three days figuring this out?

Janet Pak (34:06):
Absolutely.
Everlane and Gap I reallyrecommend.
A lot of people are a lot ofpeople under look the
opportunity that a lot ofmainstream brands like Gap and
Old Navy and Banana Republicoffer.
A lot of those brands have alot of softer, stretchy fabric
pants or skirts, especially withlike stretchy waistbands that

(34:28):
really give you like room towiggle so it doesn't feel like
it's digging into your sides oryour waist or your belly.

Josh Matthews (34:34):
Okay, let me.
Let me, let's do an M&Mcleaning out my closet segment
here.
So there are times, I think,when a lot of people whether
it's like you're looking at yourbook collection, your library,
and you're like I got to get ridof those, or you're looking at
your closet, someone who's rightnow, who's listening to this
I'm sure there's someonelistening to this that's like

(34:56):
you know what?
I'm ready, I'm going to justlike I'm going to go to town on
my closet.
I mean, it's sort of likehaving old food in the fridge,
isn't it?
It's one of clogs everything up, it clutters everything up, and
then it makes it harder tochoose right Chinese menu stuff,
right, 10 pages, and you knowfive of them aren't good because
they haven't made any of thosedishes in four years.

(35:18):
So what do you recommend?
What's sort of the process thatyou recommend for someone who
is ready to go?
Go M&M their closet?

Janet Pak (35:27):
for someone who's ready to Go full on out with the
closet.

Josh Matthews (35:32):
Yeah they're ready to, like, get rid of the
old stuff.
So, like you know, like, okay,find things that are missing
buttons, find things that are,you know, unless it's a classic
piece, more than seven years old, or whatever like.
What's the advice that you get?

Janet Pak (35:44):
first, I recommend everyone just a lot of.
First, everyone should take alook at the closet and see if
there's anything hanging withtags.
I mean, a lot of us areprobably some of a lot.
A lot of people are guilty ofjust keeping things around that
are brand new, with tags thatthey have never worn in Months
or over a year.
Start with things that they'venever, that they are still brand

(36:05):
new, with the tags that arehanging in your closet.
Pull those out and ask yourselflike do I need this?
Do I need this for work, or whyam I not wearing it?
Start with those items withbrand new, with tags, and then
start with the ones goingthrough and taking an assessment
of what needs to be tailored,what needs to be dry clean, what
needs, like, a refresh.
Just so simple tips.
They're so simple, like TLC.

(36:26):
Things can really make a hugedifference in your wardrobe
without having to go all out andbuy a Whole brand new set,
because sometimes it's just likegoing to the dry cleaners and
giving it a refresh, gettinglike giving that, like you know,
sort of like faded out white,or giving that, you know, sort
of faded black or another sortof piece that needs a touch up a

(36:49):
dry cleaning session.
Shave your sweaters shave yoursweaters, fix the holes on the.
Fix your holes.
Don't have holes gaping on yourtops and your shirts.
Anything has full holes.
Fix those and or like missingbuttons, especially missing
buttons.
Sure, yeah, no this is loose,but especially loose buttons.

(37:11):
There are a lot of people likeyou know a simple like getting
those buttons like redialed inCan really touch up that shirt
incredibly well.

Josh Matthews (37:22):
Excellent.
Hey, we're joined by VanessaGrant.
Welcome to your show, vanessa,and we're glad that you could
join us.
How you doing?

Vanessa Grant (37:30):
I'm good.
I'm hoping I'm not trying tohang out for, but I wanted to
check in and say hi, new job isdefinitely.
You know, I'm traveling todayso I'm tired.
I've been up since 3 30 am.

Josh Matthews (37:45):
Oh my gosh, oh my gosh.
So yeah, you're drinking fromthe fire hose and Look, we've
been having this discussion.
Yeah, you know there's somerisk of maybe needing to cover
something that we've alreadycovered, but that's okay, we can
always edit this.
So is there a question that youhave for Janet around style and
dressing for success?

Vanessa Grant (38:04):
Oh, what's a comfortable heel that you can
wear all day there you go, goodquestion.

Janet Pak (38:11):
That's a great question.
I like a low, like a meal.
The meals are very comfortable.
They have a very tiny littlekitten heels, like maybe a half
an inch, and those are reallycomfortable.
They're not too high andthey're not too low.
Gives you a little bit ofheight and makes you feel very
sophisticated and polished andprofessional is there any sort
of brand?

Vanessa Grant (38:30):
because I I Am bad and tend to just kind of I
don't know, maybe it's not bad,but I always tend to lead into
the the pay less than the DSWside.
But if there's like a specificbrand of just like an everyday
heel, that that I could wear,that's, that's always what I I
tend to go for, because I alwaysfeel like a heel kind of gives
that little level of authority,especially as a woman in tech,

(38:53):
but it's, it's.
I don't know that I have like ago-to yet.

Janet Pak (38:59):
There are actually a lot of go-to brands like the
naturalizer or a lot of.
Cole Hawn has the Nike airCushioning depending on like
you're willing, your budgetlevel.
Like the naturalizer is a greatlike everyday sort of brand
that has the soft little likecushioning.
And also, like I mentionedearlier, the Cole Hawn has a
Nike air that makes you feellike you're walking on clouds.

(39:20):
It's like air.

Josh Matthews (39:21):
You're like floating on clouds next year,
right on now we've got KadirRaju is requesting to speak and
I'm struggling.
My friend, it's not working, Idon't know why, but if you do
have a question right now, goahead and just you can direct
message Peter Ganza.
Just tap on his profile on yourphone and send him the question

(39:43):
or the comment and he'll behappy to speak on your behalf.
We have Mr Jason Zika, whichhas just joined us.
Nice to see you, jason.
Go ahead your life.
Thank you, mr.

Jason Ziekowitz (39:51):
Josh Matthews and miss Vanessa Grant.
I want to bring in a suggestion, kind of out of left field,
because it's not something foras far as like a comfortable
heel, that my wife wind upbuying in 2015 Crocs that are
beautiful, like platform Heels,so their platform.

(40:14):
She's tall, they're slightlyelevated in the heel area, so
they give her that like pumpthere, but their crocs are the
super comfortable and they arestylists.
So here's the deal she gotthese crocs in 2015.
I've not seen the same style ofthis version of the crocs since
and I think it's a shame.
Like I think maybe theyunderpaid the person.
They fired the person, thatdesigner, because you don't know

(40:38):
their crocs by looking at them.
But what like the, the, thesole part of it.
You know the feeling that's thecrocs and the walking on it is
the crocs, but just the look ofit.
They look like a great shoe.
She wears them all the timewe're going to the mall, so, so
just keep your eye out for crocsevery now and then.
You know they might have somegood style and those are like
you know that platform Rightheel.
Yeah, yeah, good point.

Josh Matthews (40:58):
I, if I'm not barefoot- I'm in my crocs, my
baby blues that my son Olly gaveme for Christmas.
I love those things Right on.
All right, janet, what else?
We've got a little bit moretime here.
I'm just gonna do a real quickCatch up if people are just
joining us or here in the middleof the show, because we've got
a few more folks who've come on.

(41:18):
We're talking to Janet Pack.
Janet has five years ofexperience as a stylist, a
professional stylist for peoplewho want to Accelerate their
career or their personal livesby dressing a little bit sharper
, and so it's great to have youhere.
My name, which I never I can youguys know my name If you're

(41:38):
listening to this for the firsttime.
My name is Josh Matthews and Ido run the sales force recruiter
com Along with my awesome crew.
We've got two of them on heretoday Stephen Gregor and Jesse
Twazan.
So if you want to connect withsome smart folks here in the
ecosystem who are badassrecruiters, make sure you
connect with Stephen and withJesse.
We have a number of job openingsright now that I'll just plug

(42:00):
very quickly.
We have a I'd say it's amid-level to senior level
business analyst role.
It's a fully remote position,working for a leader in their
trade, and by trade I mean it'sin the construction trade.
They have over a thousandemployees and they've got a
brand new sales force ecosystemthat launched about 12, 13
months ago.
They need someone who cancommunicate With all of the

(42:23):
different, various departmentsand make sense of what their
needs are and translate thoseNeeds into requirements that can
be developed by the rest of thecrew.
We also have a senior adminOpening a sort of a mid-level
Salesforce administratorposition.
It's idea that, look, theadvanced admin is going to need
to know field service.

(42:43):
So if you don't know, pleasedon't apply to that role.
But there is another, anotheropportunity that does not
require it and it's sort of anice vanilla Standard Salesforce
admin role for a large tradecompany.
And then we've also got one ortwo solution architectures.
We've got one or two solutionarchitect openings as well for a

(43:05):
small partner that does a lotof work in the global
entertainment industry.
So Go ahead and check out thesales force recruiter comm.
It's a brand new website.
Almost all the kinks are workedout of it, which is great, and
you can also find additionalresources, such as by such as
blablabla, by clicking oninsights, and that's where we've
got our videos and our blogsand articles.

(43:27):
You can also find our podcaststhere.
And then we have the expandexchange, where you can identify
Very easily based on whetheryou're an architect or in the
military.
You know you're looking forvideos and podcasts or blogs,
like you can find whatever youwant to level up your knowledge
by following some of these veryintelligent contributors to the
ecosystem.
On expand exchange, that's onmy website, but it's all.

(43:49):
You can also just go to expandexchangecom and you can check
that out.
Okay, back to the little chathere.
So, janet, we've covered a lotof things.
We talked about cleaning outyour closet.
We talked about how to lookgood on zoom for men and women,
comfortable shoes, attire forConferences.
Let's talk a little bit more,if we can, about the
psychological aspect of you knowLike you are what you wear

(44:14):
right.
And I'll just tell I mentionedthis when when we had a quick
chat at the podcast fromdreamforce.
But I went through thisexperience where I showed up to
work, I wore my suit for theinterview and that was the last
day I wore a full suit for along time.
I kicked butt.
I did really well for a while.
People made fun of fun of mefor the clothes I wore, because

(44:34):
I just bike to work in theseplaid pants and people
complained about my you know myclothes.
I just say, well, look at mynumbers and leave me alone.
So you know you can do.
You think people can get awaywith more when they're, when
they're Proving to the people intheir office or in their
environment that they're,they're quite successful.

(44:54):
Someone who I've mentioned Ithink are the last two podcasts
that comes to mind is alexwormose, who always wears socks,
crocs and gym shorts, right?
So, um, no, I don't have ahundred million dollars in the
bank like alex does, but do youthink it matters?
Like, can people get to a pointin their career where you just
get to wear whatever you wantand it doesn't matter?

Janet Pak (45:15):
I absolutely think that you have to.
You have to earn that, that youhave to earn that aspect of
being aware of whatever you want.
You cannot just on day one as anew person in a new company or
as a new hire, show up in shortsand a t-shirt and sandals.
You just came from the beach.

(45:37):
You want to still make a greatfirst impression on your first
day, or wherever you are.
Take some time to really earnthose stripes and earn the
respect of your peers and yourleaders, be able to eventually
be more casual, be much morerelaxed in the way you show up.

Josh Matthews (45:53):
Yeah, Look, style changes.
I mean, when I was 20 years ago, everyone was in suits.
Even on the West Coast, we worea suit to work Absolutely
Period.
Then they got rid of the tieand then they got rid of the
suit in exchange for a blazer,and they got rid of the blazer.
Now I don't even know whatpeople wear anymore, but it's
definitely.
Everything's become over time,more and more casual.

(46:15):
It's going to depend on yourindustry.
You could be a Salesforcedeveloper working in an office,
but if you're going to a bank,you might not need to wear a
three-piece suit like a bankerfrom 1983.
But you probably need to dressa little bit sharper.
There's some sort of dress codegoing on versus the startup
that is trying to whateverinvented better way to do beer

(46:36):
pong.
What do you think about theidea that it's really important
to dress for the role that youwant versus the role that you're
in?

Janet Pak (46:45):
This is a great question, because you have to
embody the person that you'rebecoming in order to have the
role.
If you show up as if you're thedeveloper and you want to be
the leader, the director or themanager, but you're still seen
in jeans and hoodie, no one'sgoing to take you seriously.
You have to show people thatyou are ready for that role.

(47:08):
It's not just show people, andnot to show people by speaking
up and developing thosecommunication skills and those
leadership skills, but also inthe way you present yourself.
You want to show people thatyou're the person that they are
choosing for that role.

Josh Matthews (47:24):
Yeah, it really depends.
I mean, if you're in a companyof six people and the CEO is
wearing jeans and hoodies, Idon't think you have to change a
damn thing.
But if you're working for acompany of size that's
interacting, engaging withclients that are in the
financial world and banking andservices world and professional

(47:45):
services probably going to be alittle bit different because
you're going to be engaging withpeople on a regular basis on
video or in person.
So you got to dress up for that.
We're going to be laughing.

Janet Pak (47:57):
Can I share a quick example?

Josh Matthews (48:00):
Of course, please .

Janet Pak (48:01):
A success story of the woman I worked with.
This woman was extremelytalented, extremely capable.
She had been in the same dataanalyst role for about five
years.
She had got really great marks.
She was phenomenal.
She was always looking toimprove, so her performance at

(48:22):
work was skyrocketing.
But she had wanted to start totake on a more leadership,
manager-facing role and she hadbeen stuck in the same role for
five years.
But she was missing something.
She realized okay, I'm doingall the right things, I'm
speaking up and many people knowI want to apply for this new
role in a manager role.
My performance reviews aregreat, but I'm missing something

(48:45):
.
People couldn't see her.
People didn't know that shewanted to be the manager.
She was always wearing black,brown, gray colored clothing,
very subdued, muted colors.
No one could see her becauseher clothes were always very
subdued and muted.
She realized that she needed toshow people that she wanted to

(49:06):
be the manager.
She started to incorporatethings that were important to
her, like color and wearingorange and greens and not over
the top, bringing in aspects ofthose colors in a top or an
accessory, brightening up herlook, making herself known that
she was going to be the leader.

(49:27):
Running that manager rolereally made it clear to people
that she was the one they shouldinterview.
Over the course of a yearworking on her style and
embodying that manager aestheticthat she felt was important,
she became the manager of thatrole of that department.

(49:49):
It was a work in progress.
It took over a year to getthere but by gradually
incorporating and letting peopleknow that she wanted to be seen
and she was the one for thatrole, it really made a
difference.

Josh Matthews (50:02):
Yeah, that's critical.
Look, I did that.
I just told you this littlestory.
The guy who showed up sweatyfrom riding my fixed gear bike
to the office building downtownwearing plaid pants, and then
it's like, oh, there's going tobe an opening.
Trust me, I throw in my suitsevery single day.
It's like I'm not going toleave it to chance, I'm just

(50:23):
going to cover all bases.
And I think it's important toknow look people, when you get
hired, you're not getting hiredbecause of your clothes.
You're getting hired becauseyou didn't mess up your clothes.
You see what I mean.
It's not the everything to yourcareer, the quality of your work
, the ability to communicate,the ability to have successes,

(50:44):
to have specific accomplishmentsand, most importantly, as a
leader and as a manager, youhelp other people Period.
You help others succeed andthat's how you level up.
But what you don't want to dois leave everything to chance,
because you can do all thatstuff and still get overlooked
per Janet's story, just here,right now.

(51:05):
So again, this isn't the end,all be all.
And if you don't like yourwardrobe, it doesn't mean you've
got no chance at that role thatyou're gunning for.
It just doesn't mean that atall.
But it definitely can remove it.
It's sort of like doing a spellcheck on your email.
Everything you say in youremail might make perfect sense,
but maybe you want to spellcheck it before you click send.

(51:26):
Right, it's the same idea, it'sjust clean it up.
Clean up the presentation alittle bit, would you say.
That's pretty accurate, janet,in your experience.

Janet Pak (51:34):
Absolutely Details, details, details.
Taking that extra few seconds,just like when you show up to
work, you want to make sure allthe buttons are there and
everything else.
Similarly, same with yourcommunication, same with your
emails and same with your work.
Taking that extra few secondsto double check everything makes
a huge difference.

Josh Matthews (51:51):
Yeah, tell me.
I want to go back to thispsychological aspect of this Now
.
We talked about, OK, dress alittle sharper and produce your
confidence, this sort of thing.
But again, there are folks outthere that are so resistant.
They'll have a million and onereasons why they shouldn't.
It makes them uncomfortable,and there's just this general

(52:12):
resistance.
I'm sure you've worked withfolks like this.
They were brave enough to pickup the phone or to go to your
website and schedule anappointment, but then you're
working with them.
I'm imagining that not everyclient that you have had has
necessarily been easy.
That'd be correct.

Janet Pak (52:29):
That's absolutely correct.

Josh Matthews (52:32):
So then, janet, what are the top two or three
fears, challenges you name itthat you must help your clients
break through for them toactually have success in this
aspect of their life.

Janet Pak (52:48):
The fear that it attracts too much attention.
The fear that they are puttingthat they care more about their
appearances than their work.
Got it Okay so you're one of thebiggest pieces because the last
thing you want to tell peopleis like oh, suddenly I show up
looking like you just did 180degrees from yesterday, from the
last week.

(53:08):
You're wearing like shorts anda t-shirt, or like jeans and a
hoodie, and then suddenly you'rewearing a three piece suit.
It doesn't have to be thatdramatic of a change.
It's going to be much moregradual.
So does it seem like you justmorphed into someone completely
different overnight?

Josh Matthews (53:21):
That's right, yes , yeah.
So trade the hoodie for apinstripe suit top, one piece at
a time.

Janet Pak (53:31):
Very slowly.

Josh Matthews (53:32):
Yeah, and so what do you say to these folks?
I mean, okay, those are thefears, you've identified them.
How do they get over it?

Janet Pak (53:40):
You have to start small, like I worked with.
Like you have to start small,like the fear that you care more
about your clothes than yourwork.
Right, that's really just apsychological fear.
If you're just showing upmaking a one small change over
the course of a year, it's notgoing to look like overnight you
did a 1A.
It's going to look like youreally care and you're trying to

(54:02):
make gradual, smallimprovements, just like in your
work.

Josh Matthews (54:06):
Yeah.

Janet Pak (54:06):
But a year's a long time, yeah.

Josh Matthews (54:08):
I mean, what's wrong with just slamming that
TNT handle down like WileyCoyote and just blowing it up
and just like you know what's up, fools knew me deal with it.

Janet Pak (54:21):
Like what's wrong with that, Because you're not
ready for it.
No one's ready for thatdramatic change overnight and
it's going to feel very awkwardand you're going to spend more
time in your head and worryingabout your clothes and what you
were wanting to run home orwanting to make a quick change
at the last minute.
Then you are feeling ready togo and ready to like hit the
nail on the wall at work.

Josh Matthews (54:42):
Yeah, yeah, but you can do this if you switch
jobs, right, you can be like,okay, I'm leaving this job, I'm
going to a new job and I'm goingto walk in there and I'm just
they'll never know.
They'll never know how much Ilove my hoodie, right, they'll
never know.
So, it's not a bad idea tobuild up your wardrobe a little
bit before you're changing jobs.

(55:02):
If that's what you'reattempting to do, if you're
trying to elevate it, a newcompany.

Janet Pak (55:06):
Absolutely, yeah, absolutely.

Josh Matthews (55:09):
Janet, this has been a really wonderful hour and
it's been a real departure fromour typical.
I mean, it's same format butour typical subject matter.
I hope that our audience reallyenjoys this episode and if they
have other questions or ifthey're actually interested in
saying like look, I can't dothis on my own, I really need

(55:33):
some help and I'm not interestedin doing stitch fix right.
So how can they reach you andwhat's the name of your website?
Just give them some contactinfo here.

Janet Pak (55:46):
I'd love to connect with more of you and learn more
about your challenges and howmaking this transformation can
really level up your personalprofessional goals.
The best way to reach me isthrough my website,
stylebyjannettcom, or send me anemail.
Jannett at stylebyjannettcom,also on Instagram and LinkedIn

(56:07):
under stylebyjannett onInstagram and I'm Jannett Pack
on LinkedIn.

Josh Matthews (56:14):
Thank you, jannett.
That's Pack, pak, yeah, pak,yes, yes.
I'm sure some people arethinking right now like, oh, I
want to reach out to her, but Idon't have a lot of money for
new clothes, much less for myown stylist.
Without sharing those numbers,is it expensive to have your own
stylist or is it just a worthyinvestment for that advancement

(56:39):
in your career that you'redesiring?

Janet Pak (56:42):
It's an investment, like you invest in your career,
the tools, the education, thelearning, going to conferences.
It's an investment that youmake and the investment is one
that you can tap into.
Once we've worked together theinvestment, you have the
foundation and the knowledge andthe tools to continue to tap
into those when you get stuck orwhen you change jobs or you go

(57:03):
through another change in careeror maybe do something different
, to continue to re-tap intothose tools on your own.

Josh Matthews (57:13):
Sure, look, I paid someone a bunch of money to
do my resume 20 years ago.
After that, all I had to do wasjust make some tweaks right,
because the general form wasthere.
Last question of the show andthen I've got a quick
announcement about what's comingup in the future here on the
Salesforce career show and ingeneral.
Last question is do you have afavorite style show or fashion

(57:36):
show that you really enjoy andhas even helped you, despite the
fact that you're educated inthis field and you've got a lot
of experiences?
Is there one out there that youenjoy and recommend?

Janet Pak (57:49):
I love the Netflix show with Tan France and Alexa
Chung, where the designers arechallenged to come up with a
collection on the spot in a veryshort amount of time.
You can really see thatcreativity and that enthusiasm
and being able to like.
It's the same thing you woulddo with yourself.

(58:11):
You're suddenly given anopportunity to interview for an
amazing role.
How do you reinvent yourself ina very short amount of time?

Josh Matthews (58:20):
Yeah, yeah, that's great.
Well, I already have my ownpersonal stylist, casey Ballissa
, and she is the mostfashionable woman I have ever
met in my entire life or everseen.
I'm pretty lucky, but if you'renot as lucky as me, reach out
to Janet Packet,stylebyjannettcom.
Now for a quick announcement.
I will be at Florida Dreamingstarting this weekend.

(58:44):
It starts on Sunday.
It goes till Tuesday.
If you're going, I'd love toget a chance to say hi Now.
This episode is not going torelease until next week, but if
you're on the live show oryou're listening to it on X
Spaces before then and you'regoing, definitely come up,
introduce yourself.
I'm happy to shake hands andsay hi.

(59:05):
I'll be running a session.
It's called Negotiating Skillsfor Salesforce Professionals.
That's going to be Tuesdaymorning around 10 o'clock in the
morning.
I'm really looking forward tohaving an episode, probably in
about a month, where I'll covera lot of the material that I
cover in the session.
We actually have anothersession that's coming up.

(59:28):
I want to say it's on November15th.
Janine, if you're still online,go ahead and unmute for a
second.
And, chair, I think MrDressfield is going to be there.
You're going to be on the show.
I will not be available for theshow.
It will be run exclusively byVanessa Grant on November 15th,
as it turns out.

Janeen Marquardt (59:47):
before you say that we might be having a
scheduling problem ourselves.
As it turns out, we're havingsome scheduling difficulties, so
it might not be November 15th.
We may have to defer until 2024because lots of world tours.
As it turns out, Eric'sgranddaughter decided that
November 15th was the day shehad to get married.

Josh Matthews (01:00:09):
Oh, okay.
Well, that makes a lot of sense.
Congratulations to EricDressfield's granddaughter and
look, we'll be back with moreexciting and interesting guests,
including a fellow named MattAbrams I think it's pronounced
Abrams and Matt is a professorin the Graduate School of
Business at Stanford.
He's written a couple books.
One of them is Think Faster,talk Smarter, and he's going to

(01:00:33):
be joining us, I'm hoping, atsome point in November.
It's probably going to be arecorded podcast, not a live
show, but very interested inhaving a conversation with him
and if it sounds I mean thetitle's interesting enough.
I'm only about a quarterthrough the book right now
myself.
Again, it's Think Faster, talkSmarter by Matt Abrams, and you

(01:00:53):
can get the audio book.
I like audio books.
He does the speaking, of course, because he's the
communications expert and he'sgot a great voice and great
subject matter.
So check him out and stay tunedfor more wonderful episodes
from our show.
Thank you everybody, especiallyJanet, for joining us today.
This has been a really unique,special episode.

(01:01:15):
Can't thank you enough fortaking time out of your busy day
.
Thank you to Peter Gonza, toJason Zeichwitz, to Janine and,
of course, for my team forshowing up here.
It's great to see somewonderful people like Mr Larry
Lee.
Larry, throw me a purple hearthere real quick.
If I'm going to see you in afew days, I hope you get to get
down to Florida Dream Becauseyou're just a sweetheart of a

(01:01:37):
guy who loves spending time withyou, so I hope that you're
going to be there.
I'm going to see a lot of oldfriends at Florida Dream.
Thank you everybody.
Here comes the outro music andoff we go.
You guys have a wonderful,wonderful week.
I'll see you soon.