Find Your Place in the Salesforce Ecosystem with Vanessa Grant + Dreamforce Discussion

Episode Transcript
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Announcer (00:02):
And now the number one audio program that helps you
to hire, get hired and soarhigher in the Salesforce
ecosystem.
It's the Salesforce career showwith Josh Matthews and Vanessa
Grant.

Josh Matthews (00:21):
Okay, welcome everybody.
This is your friend, joshMatthews, and I'm here with some
wonderfully amazing people.
Hi everyone.
I'm me.
I run the Salesforcerecruitercom, co-host this show,
and I'm going to be part of oneof Fred Kedenna's podcast, and
I'll let him talk about that alittle bit later.
But first what is the topic ofthe day?

(00:42):
My dear friend Vanessa Grant.

Vanessa Grant (00:45):
Well, today we're going to talk about how to find
your place in the Salesforceecosystem, which was a topic of,
actually, the last session ofDreamforce which I delivered.

Well, I'm excited about that.
I've been searching for fiveyears now, speaking of which we
just hit five.
Literally, the business hitfive years last Sunday.
So we're all celebrating in ourown special way here at
Salesforce staffing and theSalesforce recruitercom.
But I got to go to one of yoursessions.
I didn't get to go to all ofthem and I did miss the last one

(01:16):
, so I'm very excited about theinformation that you're going to
be sharing with us.
A couple of quick announcementsbefore we totally dive in and
get some knowledge.
We just released yesterday apodcast that I put together.
I think it was on Thursday Iwent to Roman in Yerba Buena

(01:36):
Park and chatted with six orseven folks.
They were all terrifically,wonderfully nice people,
thoughtful, intelligent and atdifferent stages and positions
in their career and with theirinvolvement with Salesforce.
So we spoke with the SalesforceAE, we talked to a vice
president of technology, wetalked to associate director of

(01:59):
marketing for an internationalcompany.
We talked to a lot of differentpeople, and that got released
yesterday.
So if you're listening live orif you're catching this episode
maybe it's your first episodeyou haven't listened to any
others If you just check out theone that got released just
yesterday and by yesterday I'mtalking about October 3rd.
It's a short one, it's only 30minutes, but we get to hear

(02:20):
perspectives on people'sfavorite thing or biggest aha
about being at Dreamforce.
We also get to understandpeople's involvement, different
things that they're learning atthe Dreamforce event and some of
the best career advice thateverybody got too.
So that's awesome anddefinitely check it out.

(02:40):
But today's an exciting daybecause this is going to be a
Vanessa Grant sharing some deepknowledge.
Let's go, vanessa, let's justdive right into it.

Well, actually, since we're on the subject of
things that people learned atDreamforce, I have a little bit
of a controversial take to share, which I was actually.
Now that we've got a few folkshere and this is going to apply
for my controversial take andalso for some of the things that
I'll share later.
This is not the Vanessa Grantshow.

(03:12):
Please, if you have feedback oropinions on things that I say,
please share.
But I'm curious what you guysthink.
So, if anybody who's actuallydone the speaker abstract
submission for Dreamforce andit's a couple weeks away from
Dreamforce, I don't feel like atotal ungrateful jerk for

(03:33):
talking about this stuff at thispoint.
But the abstracts when you'resubmitting a talk for Dreamforce
we're talking you need a shorttitle and like a 200 character
abstract and, as we know, like60% of the session's dreamforce
is here or like.
Yeah, it was like 200 characters.

It's like a tweet .

Yeah, it was like a tweet and so 60% of the
sessions at Dreamforce and therewere hundreds of sessions were
about AI, and so I think it'sreally easy for folks to sound
like an AI expert in 200characters.
It's not that difficult.
Also, they didn't have a cap onhow many submissions you could
put in, so you could throw in.

(04:17):
I mean I think I threw in nine.
I got three of them accepted,which was amazing.
But also I have concerns that,especially with the layoffs that
they had at Salesforce, that alot of the sessions that we had
that were accepted I don't knowthat they were properly vetting.
So my concern here is thatDreamforce is kind of touting

(04:41):
itself as like the big AI eventof the year, but on what
expertise If there's nobodyactually making sure that the
content is consistent, ifthere's nobody making sure that
the content is accurate, nobodyactually enforcing slide reviews
?
So that's a big problem that Iwasn't sure if I should throw it

(05:01):
on LinkedIn and I know there'sonly kind of like a smaller set
of people that listen to thepodcast, but I would really
hesitate to say that.
You know, folks that went toDreamforce really got a
comprehensive understanding ofAI through the sessions that
they saw there.
Like I'm sure there were a fewAI experts, but like I don't
know that that was the spot.

Yeah.
So look, I'm looking at thisroom here and some of the folks
that I know for a fact have beenthere.
Of course you were there.
I was there.
Fred Cadena was there?
Janine Markhart, was thereAnyone else on the show right
now?
If you were on the, if you wereat Dreamforce and have a
thought on this, do me a favor,just go ahead and raise your
hand and we'll get yourperspective.
Let's ask Fred what do youthink?

Fred Cadena (05:44):
Yeah, no, I couldn't agree more and I think
that you know.
Obviously they build it as thelargest AI conference in the
world, ever in the universe.
But I don't think it justextended to only AI sessions.
I think there was a generallack of vetting of sessions.
In general, I was prettydisappointed, like I was

(06:05):
disappointed with my Dreamforceexperience, like it was great
for me from a businessdevelopment standpoint, a
networking standpoint, that gota lot of business out of it, a
lot of great conversations.

But the con, you smoked some good cigars.
Smoked some good cigars, yeah.

I hosted a couple of nice happy hours.

That's right.

But I mean it was a successful conference, but for
the content it was maybe one ofthe more disappointing
Dreamforces.
And I don't know if it wasvetting.
I submitted six.
I didn't get any this timearound.
I've spoken to Dreamforcebefore but you know I talked to
a lot of people like even that'spresented there and the usual
rigor around reviewing content,reviewing, you know, the slides,

(06:45):
making sure things are tight.
I don't think it happened thistime, especially for you know
people that have spoken toDreamforce a number of times.
I think if you were a firsttime speaking you've got a
little bit more eyes.
But I think it was a bit of atrust environment this time and
I think the result was not asgood a quality of content.

Okay, so Janine, what do you think?

Janeen Marquardt (07:08):
Yeah, hey, I probably agree with what I'm
hearing from the others.
I submitted a number of sessions, none of which necessarily said
AI, because back when I wasformulating my ideas it was free
, the big AI push.
They were probably more generalinterest.

(07:29):
But I definitely know peoplewho submitted sessions that had
the words slash letters to AIand then they got accepted, who
really had no idea what theywere talking about and really
had very little content that hadanything to do with AI.
And then I also know people whosubmitted sessions, like Fred,
for example, who really knowtheir stuff related to AI but

(07:51):
said the words like chat GPT.
And that meant I know aboutthis because I attended one of
his sessions, that it was thelast streaming, that was
phenomenal, and kind of asked afriend, asking on behalf of a
friend, like why isn't this in Adream force?
But if you weren'tknowledgeable and you didn't
know and you weren't careful andyou said the words chat GPT,

(08:12):
which happens to be a competitorwhen we take it all, like it's
the Kleenex of chat GPT, right,yeah, Jello.
Right, it's become like that.
It's a competitor and so you'vegot to be really careful in the
way you say it, because it'schat.
Gpt is a brand name of open AIand so, unfortunately, people

(08:34):
who actually really areknowledgeable and have a lot to
say about the topic might havebeen weeded out because of
something really simple that ifSalesforce had just come back
and said, hey, we really likethis topic, we hear you're
really knowledgeable, we'd liketo just sort of rewrite this
abstract a little bit so thatwe're being more generic about
it.

Yeah, we could make great content, so right,
you're just going to picksomeone else.
I mean, yeah, that's not goingto coach you into your session.

And I think that goes back to what Fred was
saying in terms of you know theway that we sort of the sort of
going back to the rigor aroundthe content, and so, okay, let
me ask you guys this though Letme just ask you this then guys,
you know the rigor around thecontent.

I totally get that, and I am not an expert on
this, because I go to Dreamforceand I get the full pass and I
go in and the sessions I go toare basically like Vanessa,
right, I'm just too busy toactually attend too many of
these things.
When I go to a couple I went toa few, you know, I went to a
few.
You know, if I know you, I goto your session and that's about
it.
The rest is like events,clients, conversations, podcasts

(09:41):
, marketing, all sorts ofdifferent things, right?
So I go there with a differentmindset than some of the
attendees.
But I would ask this group,because you all seem Vanessa,
fred and Janine you all seem toagree on this subject, so I
don't know that it's necessarilyactually controversial, vanessa
, if you've already got twopeople on your side, right?

Well, it's hard to talk that you know something
against Dreamforce, but, likethere was, even I heard a story
about how there was somebody whowas presenting about flow I
mean not even like an AI topicand that they were outright
wrong about like three things inthe audience.
Like corrected the speaker midsession, which is embarrassing

(10:24):
if you're spending $2,000 for aticket to go sit at the session.

Yeah, Was this and was this like a small stage?
Was this a big stage?

No, no, no, no, I wasn't at that particular one,
but just the story itself.
Like that shouldn't happen.

Yeah, Well, and I think that's, I think that's
part of the problem Like what Iwish and I said this, I think,
Janine, when you were on mypodcast a couple of weeks ago,
if not, it was another time on arecent podcast I did some
Dreamforce, but I wish theywould have fewer sessions and
bigger spaces.
There were more people that Italked to that couldn't get into

(11:00):
things they wanted to get intobecause the spaces were too
small.
And, you know, I think theyhave a lot of focus on being
able to say you know, we've gotnumbers, we've got, you know, X
number of hundreds of sessions,thousands of sessions, whatever,
versus bigger rooms with morequality.

It's a Chinese menu.
It's a Chinese menu, right,it's like, who knows if that
stuff on page five is even good,right, Exactly Like what's that
?
What do you guys actually cookhere?
Don't give me the 10 page menu,yeah.
Do you guys think that some ofit's just the topical?
Right, AI is new.
Right, I mean the stuff's new.

(11:38):
Okay, it's been around for 20years, but has it?
No, Not, really, Not in ausable way, right, so it's so
new.
And so who in Salesforce hasthat knowledge to vet this stuff
out?
Right, and if it's a 200character, you know if it's from
a tweet, how are they actuallymaking their decisions?
Now, I know that they allowfeedback.

(11:58):
Right, Salesforce is big onfeedback.
They want to know, right, so Iwould encourage anybody who's
feeling like they're on thisside of Vanessa's perspective on
this and I'm not on any sidebecause I don't know.
I tend to believe my friends,so I believe you and I guess
that makes me on your side, butyou can communicate with
Salesforce.
They want to know.
Hey, what's up with?
Like Janine, I went to yoursession and like I could barely

(12:21):
hear anything because there'sanother 50 people packed smack
up against us and microphone.
You know speakers from threedifferent sessions, all pointing
at the crowd.
You're trying to filter out theconversation Like it was.
It was a challenge.
You had to really lean in,speak up, hold that mic, close
power, talk.
So I'm with you on the smallsessions.

(12:44):
Small sessions are great.
You know what we do.
A show like this.
It's going to have a reach ofprobably, at the end of the day,
of about 500 people.
Right, Compare that to spendingI don't know how many weeks
days, you know hours practicinga session to do it at Dreamforce
.
Get a crowd of 20, 30, 40people, you know, is that like.

(13:05):
It's barely worth it.
I think that's why I like thisformat.
But it's worth it.
If you've never spoken atDreamforce Now you can say
you're a Dreamforce speaker.
So there's some credentialingthat comes with that or some
sort of third party confirmation.

It's awesome, I mean that way, I mean.
I'd have to drop $2,000 on aticket because I sang for my
supper.

Yeah, yeah.
So I mean fair enough.
And if you've already got agood presentation ready to rock,
then great.
You know I'll be doing asession out at Florida Dream and
Fred, you've got a sessionthere, right, what's?
Your topic on Is it the sessionyou did in the Midwest?

I mean, it's an evolution of it.
So it's still on leveragingGeneral AI to make your
Salesforce solutions better.
But you know the technology hasmoved a lot in the four months
between Midwest Dream andFlorida Dream and so if you wait
to see me at Midwest Dream,it'll be a different session in
Florida.

Yeah, yeah.
Do you guys think that whenpeople go to Dreamforce and by
the way, I'm going to, I'll justtell everyone my session it's
going to be sales negotiatingskills for Salesforce
professionals.
So that's what it is and that'slike that's the kind of stuff.
I could talk about that stuffall day long.
So putting that together Idon't think it's going to be too
difficult.
Practicing is always, you know,time intensive, but I don't

(14:23):
think it's going to be toodifficult for me to put that
together.
But, boy, it's so much easierwhen you run at once, and so if
I go to another Dream and Eventor even DF next year, then it's
already done, you know, and then, yeah, it saves two grand.
That's great.
I'm kind of curious how manypeople here think people are
going to Dreamforce to get ageneral sense of the way and the

(14:45):
direction technology is movingand to understand sort of a
handful of the potential ofcertain products or the
potential of certaintechnologies, versus I'm going
there specifically so I canlearn how to do this one thing
and bring it back to my office.
What do you guys think?

When I was internal I mean when I started
my Salesforce journey I was aproduct owner for a small team
at a SaaS organization.
For the first seven years of mySalesforce career I went to
Dreamforce twice in thatcapacity and that's all I did,
okay.

What about you, Fred?

You know, I think it's a little bit of both hand
Again, like taking those of usthat are like Salesforce
consultants and ISVs and thoseout of the mix.
But on the pure customer side,most people that I talked to
have a couple of very specificthings features, new products,
whatever they want to deep diveon, and then kind of this, like

(15:46):
you know, chinese menu of here'sanother dozen things that I'd
like to try to get a little bitof knowledge about.
That's typically what I've seenin people that grab them and
are really trying to get themost out of the education, and
the vendors too, and the experts.

Okay, all right.
Yeah, I mean, look, if I had afinal thought on it, not the
final thought on the show, butfinal thought for me, it's just
that this stuff's so new, youknow, it's just so new, and I
think people get all excited andambitious when they're going to
do their session.
The fact is, is the 40, what?

(16:24):
Was it 40,000 people that wentto 45,000 people, or was it
25,000?

I think it was like 40,000.

Yeah, like 40,000 people, right, like out of it's
not 40,000 experts showing up,it's not.
It's not a thousand expertpresenters either.
We know that because we coveredthat three sessions ago with
Janet, with Janet Elliott, right, a lot of these folks.
And look, I've gone to a ton ofdifferent sessions,
particularly at dream and events, versus dream force events, and

(16:54):
some of them are spot on andsome of them I just think, man,
a 400 word blog would have beenfine, right, I don't know what
you guys think, but I reallythink it's like oh okay, you
know, cool, this was live, I gotto meet you.
The thing I'm usually mostcurious about a presenter is
like can I get one little bit ofinformation and can I go say hi

(17:17):
, can I make a relationship outof this?
But I'm a recruiter.

And it's funny, it's one thing that I had on my
to-do list and I still haven'tdone.
But those of you that weredreamporers and still have the
event app they were recordingeverything, or at least they
were taking in and transcribingeverything for hearing impaired,
which was awesome, and we'rethere.
You saw them in front of theroom, but I think they used that
same feed to generate these AIsummaries and they were in the

(17:46):
app and I meant to go backbecause there were a lot of
sessions I didn't get to and Iwanted to see to your point,
Josh, about could this have beena 400 word blog?
How many of those sessions thatI went to could I get the meat
from those AI summaries?
So I haven't done that yet, butthat's on my to-do list.

Yeah, I think there was something like.
I just got the email today andit might have been the second
one, because I don't know butthey're setting some stuff out
which is 250 plus.
Episodes of Epic Learning arewaiting for you on Salesforce
Plus.
Are those dreamforce sessionsthey're talking about?
I think that's what that is.

Yeah, I think it's a lot of the keynotes,
especially for industries orproducts like roadmap things.
I think, it's like the officialSalesforce sessions.

Okay, yeah, yeah.
Well, I don't know, vanessa.
I just think AI is really newand some people fake it until
they make it, and other peoplefake it and fall in their face,
and it sounds like some of thesefolks just fell in their face.

Yeah, like I said , I just get concerned and, if
anything, I would consider thiskind of a PSA to just make sure
that you're vetting whateverinformation it is that you're
seeing, make sure that it's froma trusted resource and find a
couple sources that agree withit, especially with something
that's new.

Yeah For sure.
Like you don't want to put 200hours of work into getting
something set up, only to findout that you've just engineered
this whole thing to spit outterrible information.
That's the one thing you don'twant.
So, of course, everybody test,vet and verify and double check,

(19:25):
and, to your point, I thinkthat Dreamforce should do that.
I just don't, I just, you know,and I can't speak for them.
I just don't see them doingthat, right.
But I'm with you, fred, I'd loveto see fewer sessions, bigger
crowds, because it's hard tohave like 45,000 people.
What do we have in common?
Let's face it Foo Fighters,right, like that's the, that's

(19:49):
the session that we almost allof us have in common was the Foo
Fighters session.
You know, I don't think I evengot to most of the keynote.
So you know, having fewersessions means more common
knowledge being shared, right?
You know, cut the sessions inhalf or by a third or something

(20:10):
like that, and then have bigger,bigger things going on.
So any other thoughts on it,vanessa?
I mean any other perspective onthis before we move on to the
primary topic today?

No, I just wanted to get that off my chest now
that we're a couple of weeksaway and I guess I don't want to
sound like a complete jerk, butbeing like, oh yeah, look, I
got to speak at Dreamforce and Ithink you know half of it was,
you know, questionable.
But like a couple of weeks out,I'm like, okay, let's let me
bring it up.

Yeah, look, when you get to scale right,
dreamforce is basically going tobecome the internet.
Like, you have to verify theinformation that you're getting.
There's just too many peoplethat aren't checked without
editors.
This is what you know.
This is why I mean at least Idon't know about nowadays but
newsrooms used to have editors,believe it or not, and they used
to make sure that it was justthe facts in the news.

(20:59):
They don't do that anymore.
Everything's editorialized, butyou know that's how it used to
be, and you can't do that withbloggers.
You know everyone's goteditorializing, giving their
opinion, and you and I, vanessa,we spoke about some of this.
You know, like someone, that weknow that's really kind of

(21:19):
positions themselves as anexpert on AI, and even that's
questionable.
So we do see this right.
They're called posers.
Just call them what they are.
They're called posers, and soyou got to watch out for the
posers.
And how do you do that?
Well, you listen to this showand we'll set you straight.
How about that?
Or just call Vanessa late atnight and ask her.

(21:40):
You can do that too.

Well, actually you're kind of touching on some
of my material here already,Josh, so it might be a good
segue.

I think it is hey , real quick.
Since we're getting close tothe top of the hour, I thought
I'd just share real quick a fewjobs that we've got open right
now.
So we have atthesalesforcerecruitercom we
have an awesome Salesforcearchitect position.
We just signed the new clienttoday.
We hung out with them atDreamforce.

(22:10):
These are wonderful folks.
It's a fully remote job, itpays well and you'll get to work
with a singular primary client,at least to start with, and you
know them and you probably likethem.
This is a worldwide brand nameentertainment company that you
would get to support throughthis organization.
They're looking for someone whocan bring some leadership to

(22:33):
the team.
It's about 15 people in thepractice and about five people
dedicated to this one client.
But ideally they're looking forsomeone who can come in get a
lay of the land.
Don't walk in, mr or MrsBossypants, just come in and
read the situation and get asense of it and then, over time,
begin to share your expertiseuntil everyone's looking at you

(22:55):
for the answers and now you'refull blown Mr or Mrs or Ms or Ms
or they or whatever architect.
And I think it's a greatcompany.
I think the world of the owner,I think the world of the CEO.
These are wonderful people andI'd stick my neck out for them.
We also have a couple of newpositions coming down the pie.
These should be coming downnext week which is a BA go

(23:20):
figure, a BA.
Finally, we don't place a lotof BA's, so I'm looking forward
to supporting this role.
It's sort of a BA slash leadconsultant, ba slash junior,
someone sort of on their way tosolution architects somewhere in
there, about 150 K or somethinglike that.
So not a 200 K job, not 120 Kjob.

(23:41):
And then we've also got just agood, steady, solid, advanced
admin slash configuration pro,or what I call the no code pro,
who can come in this is probably120 to 130, 135 K to help build
out some of the awesome stuffthat they're doing for one of
their primary clients.
So those are coming down theroad.
We also have an accountexecutive role with a client and

(24:04):
a few other things.
So you can always check out thesalesforcerecruitercom.
Another announcement we have abrand new website.
Now we've got about 50 or 100tickets left to get this thing
spicking, span and the expandexchange looking, feeling,
running smoothly, all of thatstuff, but it's new.
Visit, check it out and give usfeedback.
You can give the feedbackdirectly to me, you can share it

(24:24):
with Steven Gregor, who's onthe show right now listening.
So definitely check out the newwebsite and then, beyond that,
I would just say let's rock,vanessa, it's your floor.

All right, so I did a session at Dreamforce.
It ended up being the lastsession of Dreamforce because
the lights came on.
It was one of those you knowyou don't have to go home, but
you can't stay here, kind ofmoments.

That reminds me of finishing a marathon pretty
much last.
They were like they were.
The police were pulling thebarricades and I'm like no MF or
I'm still running here andbleeding all over the place.

Well, actually, I was transitioning from two
sessions.
I had two sessions back to back, one at three, at 3030, and I
had to go down the escalator toget to my last session and all
the like Salesforce employeeswere lined up to make us leave
the building, and I had to likeelbow through and be like no, no
, I have one more session, guys,you have to let me back in the
building.
So yeah, I do.

(25:23):
I do feel that.
So my session was called findyour place in the Salesforce
ecosystem, and basically wastouching on some of the
obstacles and sort of the planthat I laid out in order to
figure out where you belong.
There are a lot of differentroles in the Salesforce
ecosystem.
I really truly believe thatthere is a place for everybody

(25:46):
on these Salesforce projects.
You can't just deliverSalesforce with just technical
resources.
You know.
You do need soft skills, you doneed people who can communicate
, you do need people who can doproject management, and so it
can be a little overwhelming atfirst, and so I figured I would
bring some of my tips and trickshere.

(26:07):
The first thing that I touchedon, though, with everyone was
first acknowledging that, if youare listening to this show, if
you went to Dreamforce, you werealready on the path, so I think
a lot of folks start off goinghow do I get started If you are
actually accessing resources?
You're already there and it isimportant to acknowledge where

(26:30):
you are.
First and foremost, congrats,you've started on the path.
But the next thing I would liketo do is just real quick.

I just want to be like yes, I just want to like
put an exclamation point on that.
Right, yeah, that's so cool.
Like people come up, peoplemessage me, say on LinkedIn hey,
Josh, I'm looking for help,what's something I can do to
help my career, whatever?
I'm like well, you're alreadydoing it.
You're reaching out to expertsand seeking their advice.
Well, keep doing that.
So I love that point.

Absolutely, and, as I talked through some of this
stuff, please feel free tochime in.
This is not comprehensive.
This is just my own experienceand there's nothing set in stone
here, so I'd love to hear fromfolks that are on our panel
today If there's anything elsethat you would add.
Jeanine actually was there forthe session live.
I'll have some thoughts on it,but the first thing I covered,

(27:24):
though, was that there are someobstacles to look for while
you're on the path, things thatcould actually block your path,
and I wanted to also acknowledgethose before I got into kind of
the process.
The big obstacles that Ipointed out was the first one
being you don't know what youdon't know, and the story that I

(27:47):
shared with that was when Istarted moving into a Salesforce
career.
I initially thought I'm nottechnical enough for this.
I had managed a team but theywere all developers and
administrators and I justthought maybe there's just not a
spot for me in a Salesforcecareer.
And then I got sat next to Iwas doing like some consulting

(28:10):
and somebody sat me next to theIT business analyst and I asked
her oh, what's a businessanalyst?
And I just never heard thewords before.
So having an understanding ofvocabulary, job roles and even
product offerings and startingthere is really important,
because if you don't actuallyknow what's out there, you can't

(28:32):
actually dig into it further.
So first obstacle is you don'tknow what.
You don't know Any thoughts.

Yeah, learn the language right, Learn the
colloquialisms, understand theglossary of Salesforce and there
is one, by the way.
You can Google Salesforceglossary of terms and you'll
find it.
So that's really important.
It's a great point.

And I think it also extends beyond Salesforce.
There's products, there's jobroles, but it's also agile.
So much of Salesforce is agileproject delivery.
So Googling what is scrum?
My whole career started when IGoogled Salesforce business
analyst because I didn't evenknow that was a role that
existed before, but it set me ona path.

(29:16):
So big obstacle is justacknowledging that there's
probably a lot you don't knowand starting to get the words
together to start researching.
Next obstacle that I threw outand you touched on this a little
earlier, josh is noise.
So when we're talking aboutnoise, I'm talking about chat
GPT posts.
People are just kind of I justneed to post on LinkedIn, so I'm

(29:40):
going to use chat GPT just so Ihave some content on my
LinkedIn feed People posting oldnews.
So going into old blogs thatprobably have old information,
and also attention seekers thosekind of more click baity folks
that maybe are not the resourcesyou should be looking to in
order to expand your Salesforceknowledge and dig into the types

(30:02):
of careers that are availablein Salesforce.

Three things they don't want you to know.
It's like who's they and whatare you talking about?
Yeah, I'm with you.
I'm not a fan of the click baitstuff or the look.
It starts in middle school andsometimes it doesn't end until
they're in the grave, this likeliving by likes thing.
So yeah, you got me there.

Yeah, actually , vanessa, on your first point,
the whole you don't know whatyou don't know thing is actually
a really good point and noteven realizing the whole
technical thing.
I think a lot of people go intoSalesforce and they're like I
have to get my admin cert and Ihave to be technical and I have
to know everything aboutSalesforce in order to have the
Salesforce career.
But if you want to be a projectmanager, for example, you might

(30:52):
not need to get your admin cert.
You might.
It depends where you work andyou might be able to get that on
the job.
But I think it does behoovesomebody to do that research and
try to understand what theirskill set is.
They may already have theskills that they need to
transition into Salesforcewithout getting certified, for
example.
So it does make sense to dosome research, do some

(31:14):
informational interviews withpeople who are in this world, if
it's something that's ofinterest to you.
Not every role is technical.
Not every role requires you tohave technical certifications,
and I think that we've created aweird situation where there's
people who are jumping in andsaying I have to get all these

(31:36):
certifications.
It doesn't necessarily makesense to do that, so just want
to throw that out there.
If anyone wants to talk to meabout those some more, I'm very
happy to have thoseconversations.

I think there's it kind of and this is where I'm
like cut through some of thenoise.
If you are just kind of payingattention to the loudest people
in the room, it almost kind offeels like a lowest common
denominator, like, okay, I haveto get my admin certification, I
have to do.
The next is platform app, andthere isn't necessarily the same

(32:08):
formula for everybody, andthat's where, if you understand
more of what the universe lookslike, so that you can see what
feels good, it's better thanjust kind of, okay, well, these
other people did this thing.
I guess that's what I have todo.

Yeah, there's so much of that, right, I mean
people, just if people just tooka breath, take a beat, sleep on
it, you know, do a little bitof research for yourself, it
just it makes a world ofdifference Anytime someone can
really pause.
And I don't mean research tothe point of analysis by, you
know, process by analysis,because that can happen, right,
definitely, can happenAbsolutely.
But when you're looking atsomething like, for instance, a

(32:46):
BA role or a project managerrole, product owner, whatever,
you don't have to own theSalesforce product, you don't
have to PM Salesforce projectseither, right?
What I love about those roles,that's just, in every tech stack
, pmba, like they're in everysingle tech stack, and so that's
transferable.
What's really interesting frommy perspective in the seat that

(33:08):
I'm in right now, is I'll talkto Salesforce customers and
we're starting to work with moreand more Salesforce customers,
not just Salesforce partners,which has been our traditional,
you know, 70% to 80% of ourbusiness.
So I'll talk to a new clientand I'll ask them what they want
.
They might say and I'm notquoting my recent client who

(33:29):
wants a BA right now, but thisis an example of a typical
conversation Okay, so what areyou hoping to find kind of
quality of trades, experiences,backgrounds, tech skills, all
that stuff for this next hireand they'll say, well, I think I
need a BA, but it would bereally, really helpful if they
had some experience inSalesforce.
Now they're going to hiresomeone to do BA work for only

(33:51):
Salesforce, right, and they'rethinking it might be nice for
them to also have someexperience in that.
That tells me one thing.
It tells me that they're opento people who aren't familiar
with Salesforce.
Now, I don't recommend hiringthose people.
I just don't, because you don'thave to right.
It's like you're going to sellyour house and it's 6% that

(34:11):
you're going to have to pay thecombo of realtors to part ways
with.
Well, you can get Jenny whosells two houses a month, or you
can get Marsha Keys who does 35houses a year, or 100 houses a
year.
Guess who's better?
Guess who knows more people?
Guess who's faster?
Guess who's going to get better?
Offer the one with moreexperience, right?
So you know.

(34:32):
But I am.
There's a this thing that youwere talking about you don't
know what you don't know.
Same goes for the hiringmanagers.
They often don't know what theyactually need, right, and so
when they don't know what theyneed to know but don't know, and
then the candidate doesn't knowwhat they know and then they
all, like, jump in to to youknow, work together.

(34:57):
Honestly it's, they might loveeach other, but it's not going
to be a very successful firstsix months.
It's going to be harder tolaunch in general.
So you know, you've got to knowwhat, you've got to know what
you don't know, and figure thatout.
But you also have to whenyou're actually on the hunt for
a job.
You need to figure out whatthese hiring managers know and
don't know, because you canoffer them something really

(35:17):
special and magnificent.
Oh, did you know that I did anXYZ project that you know
integrated these four differentclouds and we did it in this
trick way and it was amazing andit might it might mean nothing
to them, right, that cool thingthat you did.
So you got to vet this stuffout.

Yeah, but again, depending on the role
you're playing, I would ratherget somebody who has business
analysis experience and I canteach them Salesforce.
Then get somebody who has aSalesforce certification but no
business analysis skills,because Salesforce is actually
easier to teach.
If you don't have any businessanalysis experience, I'm not
going to hire you.

(35:53):
I don't care if you've got aSalesforce certification.
That's useless to me.

Yeah, Vanessa's throwing up a hundred percent
sign for those who aren't aren'tlive right now.
I really agree.
Great points, Vanessa.

So the last obstacle that I threw out was
fear and limiting beliefs.
I think and, man, you know,salesforce is not great at this
because they've got their wholemarketing vehicle with you know
the MVPs and the Golden Hoodiesand I think that there's a real
danger of putting people onpedestals when the reality is

(36:25):
we're, all, you know, humanbeings underneath.
You know the trailblazerhoodies, and it's so important
to be able to connect withpeople in this industry just
because there is so much youdon't know.
Even if you're 10 years in,there's still going to be a lot
you don't know.
And my personal belief is thatit is a lot easier to ask your
friends for help when youconnect with people on a human

(36:47):
level than it is to ask peoplefor help when you put them on
pedestals.
And, man, almost everyconference, I get a tweet like a
week or two later that's likeoh, I saw you at such and such
conference, but I was afraid tosay hi, like, if, like, don't
make decisions out of fears.
Basically what I'm saying likeyou don't, you know, you want to
address it, you want to runtowards it and it actually I

(37:08):
would say maybe the fear mightbe your best vehicle for finding
your passion.
I mean, we talk about me beingfreaked out about doing speaking
sessions.
I still shake when we do thispodcast, josh, believe it or not
, like I still start off thefirst thing.

Are you freaking, kidding me?
No, I forgot, are you for real.
You are the.
You're hysterical, you'rekilling me, you get nervous
coming up here.
It's like us and our friends.

I know.

That's so funny and you're so chill and relaxed.
No one knows.

I don't, but I don't let it stop me as the
point you know it's the you canacknowledge that, that you're,
that we're worried about things,but don't let those things
limit you.
Don't put people on pedestals,don't say I can't do that or
that's too hard, like.
Don't let that stop you.

Yeah, yeah, you got to do it.
And every time you do it, Imean it gets a little bit easier
.
And even if it doesn't, I meanI've heard stories of actors and
musicians who like to this day,puke before they get up on
stage, like every show, likeit's part of their ritual.
Do you guys remember that movie?

(38:17):
Any given Sunday it had AlPacino, jamie Foxx, great movie,
yeah, great movie.
Cameron Diaz was sort of thenasty new owner and I think it
was Jamie Foxx's characteralways puke right before he took
the field right Like it was,and it became a joke, like a

(38:37):
meme or something like that.
So you know, it's okay, it's.
I liken this stuff to like gointo the gym even when you don't
want to, right.
If you, just if everybody intheir life just did the things
that they want for the most part, for the most part they'd be
destitute, right.
It's only the.
Every time you look at someoneat a high level, someone who's

(38:59):
had to whatever level you wantto measure it by right, it just
doesn't matter but in your eyeshas achieved some level of
success.
What you're looking at issomeone who either, you know,
was a member of the LuckySpurrem Club and just like had
gotten born into a bunch ofmoney and tons of opportunity

(39:20):
and all these things.
That doesn't mean that they'renot a good person, right, and
that doesn't mean that theydidn't work hard, but chances
are.
Whoever you're looking at, who'sreally successful.
Two things that they've got.
One they're smart.
Like you can't get around that.
That's the level of ability,capacity that they have the
ability to learn, the ability toremember and the ability to
synthesize that information tomake good decisions.

(39:42):
But the other quality that theyhave is they did things that
were scary.
They did things they wereafraid of.
Some people have a lot of fear.
Some people have very littlefear.
It doesn't matter.
Whatever you're giving it'slike and this is all scientific
guys Like.
Our capacity for joy asindividuals is limited.
It's a genetic quality.

(40:03):
Everybody's got a friend who'slike so chill and even kill.
You can't tell if they'rehaving the best day of their
life or the worst day of theirlife unless they tell you,
because their range of emotion,the depth with which they feel
it, is a thin bandwidth.
Let's call it 10% out of 100.
Other people I know Casey's oneof them, by the way who has a

(40:24):
capacity for joy that I'mjealous of like, truly like,
envious of right.
It's just how it is.
People have these differentlevels and the same thing goes
with fear.
But you must do the things thatyou're afraid of or they will
always keep you down.
The longer you wait we talkedabout this about four months ago

(40:45):
, about how time feeds fear,right the longer you wait to do
the thing that you're afraid of,the more you're feeding into
that fear and making that thingthat you're afraid of bigger and
bigger and bigger and bigger,until it's just like it feels
like you can't do it.
This is the.
This is a procrastination, butnot really.
It's paralysis.
You put something off so longyou fed fear for so long.

(41:09):
There's no way you can overcomethis stuff.
You know what I mean.
So to Vanessa's point, and Ithink it's a great point.
I love that you brought this upin your session.
I love that you're bringing itup now.
Do the things that you'reafraid of, and I'm not just
saying go bungee jumping, I'msaying talk to strangers.
Here's one smile at people,smile at strangers, try that one

(41:30):
on.

Yeah, and you know what the story that I told
for this particular one was thatI had and I talked about it
earlier in the year, but I haddinner last not this last stream
force, but the year before withSusanna, who's like the lead
architect of Angelist ad salesforce.
She runs the architect keynote.
I don't know the first thingabout technical architecture,

(41:53):
but we connected on a humanlevel and talked about our
backgrounds and my mom'sColombian and her mom's
Colombian, but she was adoptedso she'd never met her mom.
Next thing, you know, fivemonths later, we're both taking
a trip to Colombia and reunitingher with her mom and, like,
that is my friend now.
That is somebody I've connectedwith on a human level and she
knows so much Salesforce stufftoo.

(42:14):
It's just so much easier toreach out and say hey, like, yes
, we talk about all these otherthings, but, by the way, do you
know, is there an update on thisthing?
Okay, cool, like it isconnecting with people, not just
because you want something fromthem, but also connecting with
people on a human level, because, at the end of the day, the
thing that we all have in commonis we're all human beings and

(42:34):
we're all fallible.
We're all different, we're allinteresting.

I don't know about that.
I know some prettyuninteresting people.

Well, they're just not authentic enough, is
the problem.

Maybe that's what it is.
Maybe that's what it is.
Yeah, it could be.

Jason Zeikowitz (42:51):
Jason Could be Well.
I think that's a great exampleright there, vanessa, about
overcoming that anxiety ofactually talking to someone.
And I was thinking of a quoteabout if you're living in the
future, you have anxiety.
If you're living in the past,you're depressed.
So you just have to be presentto be peaceful.

And, buddy, I just said that like a month ago.
That's from a Chinese quotethat my sister sent me.

I didn't know I was so cool, but no, it's okay.
But I think you know, you justwere present in that example,
vanessa, just being present, notbecoming overwhelmed by oh,
what should I say to this person, but just by, you know, being
present, finding thatcommonality, and that's what

(43:42):
happened from there.
So, as far as if you have, ifpeople have a fear of talking to
others or talking in front of astage, just getting exposure.
Getting exposure to do hardthings, all right, challenge
yourself to do hard things.
Try to purposely get people tosay no to you.
So purposely try to be rejectedon things.
This way, you're exposingyourself to rejection.

(44:03):
Take cold showers.
Cold plunges are the latestthing, and it's all about how
you talk about exposure therapyexposure therapy, exactly
exposure therapy.
So you're like teaching yourselfhow you're able to overcome
challenges.

You know, Jason, actually this brings up an
interesting, an interestingstory about how we met.
So, Jason, do you remember?

Yeah, yeah, I'm interested from your
perspective.

So I was.
I really just kind of came onthe scene, I would say around
pandemic time and very randomlyI believe it was on LinkedIn,
maybe it was Clubhouse, but Ithink it was on LinkedIn this
random guy, jason, was like hey,I'm trying to have the virtual
coffees with like 200 people inthe Salesforce ecosystem because

(44:53):
I'm just starting my journey.
Do you have 15 minutes to likehave a cup of coffee virtually?
And that is how Jason and I met.
And now he's here.

How can you not love this guy?
Honest to God, jason's aspecial guy like for real.
We just like I love that.

You have to play the numbers and you have to
be patiently, positivelypersistent.
So I pretty much I just treatedmyself like a CEO of my own
company and the CMO and I sentthose messages out to many, many
people and about like one thirdof them responded and one third
of those people set up a coffeewith me.
So I just played the numbersand eventually got my hundreds

(45:29):
of coffee chats and from thosecoffee chats it was interesting
because at first I was in awe ofthe people I was talking to and
eventually people were who Iwas chatting with were saying
well, I don't know if I'mqualified to talk to you because
I just I'm just starting withthe ecosystem.
Like, well, I'm just startingtoo.
And by me having conversationsit was boosting my own

(45:53):
confidence by realizing, as, aswe've talked about in the show,
wherever you are in your journeyyou're on day one, someone's at
day zero start talking about it.

Exactly.
You know, I did the same thing,jason, except my goal was to
talk to five people, 200 people.
Man, that's bold, I love it,and I did the math real quick.
That's 50 hours.
50 hours of conversations with200 people, good for you.

And he was memorable for sure, of course.

Of course.

All right, I'm going to move into the action
plan.
The action plan had five stepsin it.
The first one and I'll touch onthis is to get focused.
So you know how do you find outwho you want to be?
What's your first bit ofresearch going to be?
So think of things about likewhat do you like?

(46:44):
What sounds cool?
Do some research on products,roles, tasks, industries, learn
the vocabulary, words, and alsobe open to where this takes you,
because it can evolve as youlearn and experience new things.
You know it is a continuouslearning journey and I think the
big takeaway is that you're notbeholden to others' views of

(47:05):
you, including your own, andwith every one of my action
steps I had a do and a don't.
So the do forget focused.
My big takeaway for everybodyin the audience was to get on
the app exchange.
So I always talk about gettingon the app exchange.
The app exchange is you'regoing to find every consulting
partner and every ISV thatpartners with Salesforce.

(47:29):
You can filter by industry, youcan filter by location and you
can really start researchingcompanies.

And by rating.

Yeah, and well, forget the rating.

I know it was a joke.
It's an ongoing joke here.
I know it's like a running jokeat the show.
We don't have guns at a jump intoday, yeah.

But it's really starting to look at what
companies are doing in theSalesforce ecosystem.
So the app exchange is a greatplace to go.
You know, I mean to date myselfis kind of like yellow pages,
but it's a great spot to startyour research.
I also think it's a good spotto start maybe earmarking
companies that you might beinterested in working for in the
future, especially if you'repossibly interested in

(48:11):
consulting or, you know, ifthere are certain industries
that you're focused on.
I also think that Trailhead hasa good spot if you go onto it,
called Career Paths, which is agood.
It's not comprehensive, butit's a really great start to
start understanding some of themost popular career paths in the

(48:31):
Salesforce ecosystem.

So those are my.
Yeah, it's pretty cute too.
It's kind of cute how thatwhole system is put together.

I think yeah, and my thing don't forget focused,
don't do what I did, which is,as soon as somebody says
something cool, all of a suddenyou're dropping money on classes
and things that you probablyshouldn't be committing to at
this early point.
So my first example wassomebody's like hey, I just
started a marketing cloud classand I'm charging a hundred bucks

(49:01):
a month for it, and I was likethat sounds cool, I'll buy it.
And then all of a sudden, youknow I'm $500 in it.
Never taken a class before, itwas all self-study.
And I'm like what am I doinghere?
You know, there was just somuch to learn that I didn't
laser in on my focus on thethings that I should have been
doing.
I was trying to do too manycool things at once because when
you do start digging in, therecan be a lot of distractions.

(49:24):
So prioritize focus.

Yes, and I want to jump in as far as like
saying the reason why I'm soenthusiastic about informational
interviews because you have tostart with the end in mind.
So, before you start learningeverything, get that survey
about what's out there.
So that's what I was doingabout informational interviews.

(49:47):
The Salesforce seems like athing.
Is it real?
Is it a cult?
It seems like a cult.
Okay, it is, but it's cool, andso that's why, from those
informational interviews, I wasable to get as like get the best
type of quality research as Icould firsthand experience.

I think a lot of this is like be curious and be
suspicious, right, like, you getto be both.
There's nothing wrong withhaving like being both.
Right, it's street smarts,right?
Is this a good use of my time?
What in to both your pointsLike what do I expect to get out
of this at the end If I spentmy time somewhere else doing
something differently?

(50:28):
Will that impact in a morepositive way to accelerate my
learning, my knowledge, mydecision making, my career, all
of these things?
It's?
We talked about economies acouple of sessions ago, two,
three sessions ago.
Right, like how we're always inan economy, whether we know it
or not.
Right, like, if you own a house, you're actually in the rental

(50:49):
market economy.
You're just not making anymoney on it because you live in
the house, but you're still inthat that economy.
So it's the same idea.
It's like you have everyone'sgot as many days, as many
minutes, as many hours aseveryone until they die, right,
and so how are you going to usethat and what's the benefit?
So this is about being reallyefficient and I would almost go

(51:12):
so far for certain people noteverybody, but there are certain
people, I would say the highlydistractible, the highly
influenced.
You guys know who you are,right.
The easily sold to, thegullible right Must take the
reins of this wild horse likeyou just have to, and you must

(51:33):
be ruthless with it, becauseyour horse bucks more than the
average horse If that's sort ofyour MO, their positive
qualities to being that slightlyeasily distractible or easily
sold to or, you know, overlycurious, to the point where you
know you're just like a reallydull Swiss army knife and no

(51:54):
tool really works that greatRight, like you can do that.
You can be a dilaton, I thinkit's a good word to use.
But you must be ruthless withyour attention.
And when you look at all of thesuccessful people that you know
either through their own fame,you know, you see them on the
news, you see them on stage oryou read about them in the paper

(52:16):
.
They're wealthy, they'resuccessful, they've achieved,
you know, high levels of things.
You're wealthy you could be thePope still a high level of
achievement, right.
But every single one of thosepeople was ruthless in what they
focused on.
They had boundaries andbarriers.
They think of the racehorsethat's got the blinders on so it
doesn't pull them off theirline, right?

(52:38):
So just do that.
So how do you do that?
How do you get ruthless?
And I would.
I would posit that the firstthing that you have to do is get
really good at saying no toyourself, and then you've got to
get really good at saying no toother people.
No, I'm not going to jump onYouTube shorts and waste away

(53:02):
the next four hours.
You could say that to yourself.
I've had to tell myself thatmore than once, right or no, I'm
not.
I just did this recently.
For years I was doingpresentations for the Tech
Academy out of Portland, oregon,you know, and I'd go down there
, live and be anywhere from like20 people to 200 people that
I'd do a presentation for, likea career session, something like
this show sort of, but live,and I love helping these folks.

(53:25):
Can I do it right now?
No, I can't.
I don't have the time.
I have other responsibilities.
I've got other people countingon me to deliver on certain
projects, certain clients, allthese sorts of things, so I
can't do it.
I want to do it, it's fun, itgives me some sense of
significance and it allows me tofeel like I'm really helping a
lot of people.
But I have to say no becausethat's a Friday.

(53:47):
I'll never get back right.
So say no to yourself, say no toother people.
But to do that isn't easy, butthere's a trick.
I have to do this at nightbecause I don't fall asleep very
easily.
I'm a bit of an insomnia, afamous insomniac.
It's gotten better, and one ofthe things that helped me get
better is I've taken a littletrip to fan and cutting out

(54:07):
coffee for my diet.
Someone told this to me, Ican't remember who, maybe even
someone on the show.
It was giving yourselfpermission to sleep, right.
So I'll tell myself my headhits the pillow and I'll say
okay, josh, you had a good day.
Buddy, like you get to sleep,like you've earned this, let's
get some rest now.
It's okay, you can close youreyes and you can fall asleep.
I actually have to tell myselfthat, or I won't do it.

(54:29):
So you can give yourselfpermission to say no.
Nothing bad's going to happenwhen you say no, like it's not.
Anyway, that's all I got to sayabout that.

Thanks, josh.
Well, after you're focused, mynext step in my action plan is
to get connected.
So you have a direction andthen you want to get connected,
which means get your socialmedia feeds and email to serve
you.
It's not all about feeding thesocial media machine, it's also
about getting from the socialmedia machine.

(55:00):
So what I mean by that is startconnecting with people on
LinkedIn so you could do it theway Jason did.
The way I did it was I startedconnecting with people that had
Salesforce in their bios, but Ifocused on MVPs.
So there's actually a wholepage on Trailhead that's a

(55:22):
directory of Salesforce MVPs anda whole of Fame members, and
you can even filter by theirregion.
You can filter by theirproducts that their specialists
at.
I also looked up SalesforceChampions.
I looked up Salesforce X20certifications because I figured
that they would probably beenthusiastic about Salesforce.
Sometimes I think connectingwith local professionals is

(55:45):
really important because they'llknow of any local activities,
recruiters and evennon-Salesforce people.
So a lot of times in thebeginning of my journey, I ended
up connecting with people thatwere good at LinkedIn
optimization or good at Agileand project management and, of
course, just IT businessanalysts, since that's where I
wanted to focus my career.

(56:08):
The other thing I would say asfar as getting connected is
finding those events and thelocal community groups.
So if you go to, if you do asearch for Trailblazer community
groups, you should be able tofind, hopefully, something local
to you.
But if not, there's also aSalesforce events calendar where
you can see not only TDX andDreamforce but also the Dreamin'

(56:30):
events.
I literally never heard of aDreamin' event until I ran into
Eric Drashfield on Clubhouse oneday and he's like hey, do you
want to have virtual coffee?
I can tell you a little bitabout the community and I was
like fantastic.
And next thing, you know, Iknow all about Dreamin' events.
But getting connected to othersin the community via LinkedIn,
via your email.
So if you want to go onto theTrailblazer community boards and

(56:50):
start signing up for anyupdates to those boards, if
there's topics that you'reinterested in, but start getting
your LinkedIn feed to startserving you so you can see
what's going on in your area,see what's going on that you
might be, that might be worthgoing to so that you can expand
your learning.

That's it, vanessa.
I love that.
Listen everybody, anyone who'slistening right now.
You get to choose who you'reconnected with, right, you got
to be real careful.
I don't know if you guysremember like going to a brand
new high school or middle schoolor something like that, or even
a new job in your 20s Everybody.
This sort of thing happens morein your 20s, early 30s, when

(57:31):
you join the company or you jointhe high school.
Someone reaches out and youmake a new friend and within
about I don't know two weeks ora month, maybe even two months,
you realize this is not thefriend for you.
Like this person is going todrag you down their sewer rat in
business.
Do you guys know what thatmeans?
A sewer rat?

I grew up in New York, so yes, Okay, all right.

So someone who's just going to bring you down,
somebody who just wants someoneto bitch and complain and wants
them on their side, right?
Misery loves company andoftentimes the people who will
reach out first aren't always,like you know, the like Reese
Witherspoon from election movie.
That's a dumb reference, butthey're not like these happy,
awesome, bubbly people who justcan't wait to, you know, meet

(58:19):
new people and help others.
A lot of times, there's peoplewho are miserable, that are
looking for connection, and soyou got to be careful who your
first connections are, and Ilove this idea of checking out
the MVP list.
It's easy to get totrailheadsalesforcecom and you
can even go forward, slashhashtag need and then reach out

(58:40):
to these folks because they'reconnected and there's some third
party confirmation that theseare good people.
Right, so they're alreadyproven.

Absolutely, and also by being connected to the
thought leaders.
Your LinkedIn feed all of asudden is going to have all the
latest Salesforce news.
It's going to have all thelatest Salesforce events and the
things that come out of thoseevents.
That's where I think the bigvalue is is how do you cut
through the noise and find thethought leaders who are really
on top of what's going on in theSalesforce ecosystem, so that

(59:11):
you can start being on top ofwhat's in the Salesforce
ecosystem?

And also want to call out that those people
may be vet.
You're not yet, so you don'tknow if they're going to be
accepting your invitationrequest and also remember you.
So another reason I wasremembered I've been that says I
make notes, I send messagesusing that LinkedIn feed as my
CRM feed.
It helps me, my future self andthe person I'm talking to.

(59:38):
So sending a note letting themknow hey, I'm interested in
Salesforce as you've beensuccessful in your Salesforce
career and I'd love to learnyour lessons and I'd love to
hear your advice for someone inmy shoes and that's in the thank
you note after the chats.
This way it's a reminder forthem, but also it's a way to

(59:58):
have your own and I naturalintelligence, make a summary of
that conversation and it helpsyou better remember that
information and get key insightsas you're forming information.

Josh Matthews (01:00:12):
It does and you can go one step further.
And that's just a set ofreminder.
30 days out, 60 days out, andhowever you want to do it, you
can just put a little to do onyour calendar, call Gilmart,
whatever, but follow up becauseyou can make all these.
Some people are really good atbeing the point at the end of
the stick.
They love meeting new peopleand they're terrible at

(01:00:34):
maintaining relationships.
Don't be that person.
You're trying to cultivatesomething here, Right, it's like
I don't know if anyone's everdone like their own starter
yeast or something.
Well, you got to feed that babyor it's not going to work.
And then there's no bread, soyou want your bread.
You got to feed the.
You got to feed the Scooby.

Vanessa Grant (01:00:52):
Yeah, I had that pandemic hobby as well.

Okay, it is a pandemic hobby.
It's too funny.

The one thing I did note, though, was that there
are some don'ts with connectingwith people on LinkedIn.
One is you don't want to getbanned by LinkedIn by making too
many connections over thecourse of a week.
I think LinkedIn has a limit oflike a hundred during the
course of a week but you don'twant LinkedIn to block you and
think that you're a bot.
But I also have noted and it'ssurprising to me how many people

(01:01:26):
do this.
But they see that there's thisLinkedIn feature called content
creator, and they'll turn it onso that people can only follow
them, but then it inhibitspeople from actually sending
connection requests.
And there is something aboutthe LinkedIn algorithm where,
once you hit about 500connections, you do become a

(01:01:46):
little bit more visible inpeople's feeds.
So I would make sure that,especially if you're just
getting into it, you don't wantto be listed as a content
creator unless you're actually acontent creator of some sort.

That's right.
Or, and you know, I would saythere's no need to switch to it
until you're well over 5,000connections.
I don't think most people aregoing to get to 5,000
connections in their lifetime.
On LinkedIn, Most people aren'tRight.
Some people have, like you know, Jordan's got an incredible
number of followers, but it's aneasy way to get people to

(01:02:18):
accept without having to seeother people's feeds Right, so
that's why they do it, so peoplecan follow you.
But you don't necessarily haveto interact and have connection.
You just click on a button.
Anyone can just follow you andit's easy.
So I'm a follow.
You know I'm a content creatorand so my thing says follow.
But, Vanessa, do you want totell them how they can connect
with someone instead of justclicking follow on LinkedIn?

If you do see somebody that has followed there
, there should be like the threedots which will or I know sorry
, it says more Sorry.
If you click the more button,it'll give you the option to
connect with them or send them aconnection request.

Yep, so you can just connect.
You can still do it.
Anyone that you're followingyou can still reach out to
connect.
Usually, what I'm seeing, youknow, I don't know what it works
out to, but I mean I have somedays where, like you know, it's
rare, but some days no one'strying to send me an invite.
Some days I wake up and there'slike 60 in there, right.
So the more content you create,the more people are going to

(01:03:17):
follow you.
But the majority of people whoare trying to connect with me,
it'll say that they alreadyfollow me, right?
So the cool thing about thefollow is that people can like
is this someone I really want toconnect with?
And you've kind of watched themfor a little bit?
And then, if it seems like itcould be a valuable relationship
, and then you can go ahead andextend.
The one thing that I will say Ijust want to get this in here
because I see this all the time,and no offense to my friends

(01:03:41):
from India, but most of them, Isee this only from Indians, okay
, and I think it's just a normalthing in India, but I see it
here and I find it very annoying.
I'm just going to say it rightnow I'm going to get it off my
chest, whether you like it ornot.
Don't just say hi, josh, ordon't say hi Vanessa.
It's like, yeah, and who areyou?

(01:04:01):
What is this all about?
What do you need from me?
Like, don't make me say hi.
How are you?
Like I'm not going to do itRight, like I'm just not going
to do it.

Fred Cadena (01:04:10):
So we're all ugly.
Even worse, which is my.
I was going to say don't justsend a blind connection request
to somebody that you don't knowlike.

Personalize it, put a reason in there for me to
want to connect with you, yeah,yeah, it's like when I'm looking
at who I'm accepting and I onlyaccept about half the people
who reach out just because Ilike my feed, nice and lean,
right, I want to be.
When I put a message out, Iwant it to go out 100% to the

(01:04:39):
people who need that information.
Okay, so I'm generally notconnected with people outside of
Salesforce.
There's a handful, maybe somerecruiters and things like that
and some hiring managers, butfor the most part these are.
You know, I'm looking firstthing.
Is it obvious that you're aSalesforce pro?
Does it say it in your littlebyline under your picture?
Or did you write a message thatsays hi, I'm interested in

(01:05:02):
Salesforce, or something likethat?
You don't have to be aSalesforce pro.
If you're curious aboutSalesforce or you're telling me
that you're getting into it,sure you can follow me.
I'll follow you back.
It's all good, right?
No problem.
But if I can't tell that you'rea Salesforce professional, I'm
assuming you're trying to sellme something and I don't really
want to buy anything.
I don't need it.
So tell me right.

I will say so.
Sorry, fred, I actually do theother way around For the most
part.
Unless it's somebody that Itruly do want to be connected to
like that, you know, I havemaybe I've seen them speak or I
attended one of their webinarsor read their blog I usually
won't personalize it Me.
I'm kind of more of the shotgunapproach, because if I see that

(01:05:47):
they have Salesforce, I thinkthat headline is important but I
really just kind of acceptanybody at this point and then
just kind of unfollow people ifI see on my feed that they're
not really adding anything to it.
That's usually the approachthat I go, just because for me,
the idea of writing a250-character intro for like

(01:06:09):
every single connection I sendand I still send probably I
don't know, at this it's lessthese days, but like when I'm on
LinkedIn regularly, I'llusually send about 10 requests a
day and just send it.
If they don't respond, then Idon't necessarily care at this
point.

There's another million people right.

Yeah, but I will say in the beginning, it is more
important that you are a bitmore diligent about who you're
connecting with so that you canget access to the right
information.

Agreed.
I think content creators,people who give presentations or
podcasts, right, blogs orparticularly active running a
business can get away with itright.
So you've got 12,000 followers,you can get away with it.
People are going to just see,like I just pulled you up,
vanessa, do you want it withoutlooking?

(01:06:57):
Do you want to guess how manymutual connections we have?

I'm going to say probably 500 something.

It's 1,143.
Wow, and what's crazy aboutthat is that means that you've
got about 10,000 people thatyou're connected with.
That are probably good, smart,active people that I'm not.
That's how disparate thisecosystem.
It's so widespread.
You want to feel small?
Go to Dreamforce like for real.

(01:07:24):
It's incredible that we're notconnected with 5,000 people
instead of 1,000.
I find that incredible.
I rarely reach out and try andconnect with people on LinkedIn.
If I am doing it, it always hasa message 100% and more times
than not, there's almost alwaysa follow-up message if they
actually accept my connectionrequest.

(01:07:46):
So you can do it in a verydeliberate, determined, planned
out way.
That's how I do it.
But I use LinkedIn for business.
I'm finding candidates and Iwant the best of the best, and
I'm finding clients and we wantthe best of the best.
So that requires vetting lotsof conversations If you're just
trying to build your network,because someday you can learn
something from someone, orsomeday maybe you guys will work

(01:08:07):
together or someday maybeyou'll hire them.
It's just a different game.
It's the same field.
It's just a different.
It's like playing kickballinstead of baseball.
You use the same field.
Kickball's more fun.

Janine, did you want to throw something in?

Janeen Marquardt (01:08:22):
Yeah, I mean not that we haven't beaten the
conversation with a dead bat orwhatever or something, but I
mean I think everybody has adifferent purpose on LinkedIn.
I mean, josh, you're a recruiterand people are going to reach
out to you differently and etcetera.
But I think in some ways, likeVanessa, I'm also a clicked
coach or just a mentor, and sopeople come into contact with me

(01:08:42):
a lot until they'll reach outto me and they'll want to
connect.
But I also won't accept a lotof those contacts because
there's not necessarily two-waymutual value.
Fine, you can follow me, I getthe same content, but it doesn't
help me to connect to you ifyou're just starting in the

(01:09:03):
Salesforce ecosystem.
So there's kind of an imbalance.
So I try to be a little bitcautious because I don't want to
expose my 2,000 connections ofpeople who I've been working
with for 30 years to people whomight just be looking to market
or reach out and just try toleverage you, as I'm trying to

(01:09:25):
protect my connections, my trueconnections that I've worked
with, that I've known frompeople who are brand new and
looking for a job.

You can do that.
There's a button you just clickand hides everybody.
You know that right Like youcan just go in and set it so no
one can see your connections.

But also part of the reason that LinkedIn is
valuable is so that people let Iam connected to can meet each
other.
So you've got to find thebalance between using the
network of each other so thatVanessa and Fred can find each
other through me and leverage mynetwork and leverage me to meet

(01:10:04):
each other, but also thenexpose them to people who are
just looking to find a jobthrough me, who I don't really
know, and I can't vouch forsomebody who I don't really know
.
And so I think there's Totally,you've just got to find the
right balance.
And so I'm sitting on a couplehundred connection requests to
people I don't really know butwho've met me, because they've
come to a talk I've done or apodcast or my clicked coaching

(01:10:28):
or something like that, but Idon't know them personally.
So I think you've just got tofigure out what's the right
methodology for you and makesure you're kind of trying to
just apply whatever principlesmake sense, right?
So I think that it's pretty.
I think it's a prettychallenging question.
I came up in an earlier daybefore these things existed, and

(01:10:50):
then helped build them.
So I'm wary of social mediaenough that I try to be cautious
.
I don't put my whole life outthere.
I use each type of social mediafor its given purpose and I
don't post my personal life onLinkedIn and I don't post my
professional life on Facebook.
And yes, I'm on Facebookbecause I'm not old, so those

(01:11:12):
kinds of things.
I think it's pretty difficultto maintain those separations if
you try to.

Yeah, I'll tell you.
Look, this is a really goodpoint.
I'm glad you're bringing thisup, jenny, because you're right
and you said it the platform,it's a platform.
Everyone knows what a platformis.
Platform means different peopleare going to use it in
different ways.
That's all.
That's practically thedefinition.
And so, yeah, a recruiter isgoing to behave differently than
someone who's trying to selltheir life coaching right, or

(01:11:41):
their fitness coaching or theirwhatever it is.
I don't know what it is.
Yeah, yeah, it's good stuff.
Cool.
What else have you got there?
Hey, can we just do a quickthing, because one of my friends
who's on this show, she's nothaving the most magnificent,
wonderful day ever, so can wejust do this as a little crew?

(01:12:05):
I thought this would be fun,and we all, everyone who's got
speaker access.
So that's me, fred, that'sSteven, and, and, oh, jason,
we're going to get you back hereat it.
There we go.
Can we all unmute for a second?
Yep, all of us.
It's all on mute, okay.

(01:12:27):
And on three, we're going tosay love you, janine.
One, two, three.

Jason Zeikowitz (01:12:32):
Love you.

Janine, I love you, janine.
There we go.
Just a little love from us toyou All right.

I appreciate that.

You got it, kid.
Oh all right, that was nice.

I don't know how to segue the presentation.

You don't know how to what.

I don't know how to segue out of that, though, in
fact, to the presentation andscene.
Well, we love you, Janine.
I'm excited to see you onSunday, oh that's cool.

You guys are going to see each other when.

Uh, I'm, uh, I'm going up, uh, to the Oakland
area um, to spend a week with mynew team, because I have a new
job.

Fantastic.
Yeah, let's do that, let'ssegue into that and we'll wrap
up the thing and take a coupleof questions.

Okay, Cool, Um so , uh, well, I, I, I guess.
How do you, how do you want tostart?
I started like segue off thesegue, but, um have, I have
three more steps on the actionplan, but I know we're running
out of time as well.

No, let's just crank through, let's go.

Okay Cool, Let me just crank through and we can
talk about my new job next time.
Um all right.
So, uh, first get focused.
Next to get connected.
My third step is get informed.
Um, this is again part of thatlearning the vocabulary, and one
of the things that I noted hereis that you'll know, I think,
that you're on the right path Ifyou find yourself engaged with
the content.
So, like the first time I sawAshfin again speak about digital

(01:13:54):
transformation, or I saw IanGott speak about business
analysis is like the first time.
I really felt myself kind oflike white, knuckling my chair
and getting really excited aboutcontent, um, and the things
that I was learning, whereas, um, I sat through like a mule soft
presentation and I was justlike, nope, this is not for me.
Um, I don't think there's anydon'ts on this step, because

(01:14:17):
it's really just about learningmore about yourself and the
things that you like.
I do think it's important to beable to pivot quickly, though,
and then I can move on to thenext day and go through that All
right.

Yeah, great.

So you're focused , you're connected, you're
getting informed, your feet isserving you.
The next thing is to getorganized.
Um, there is a lot ofinformation and so it's going to
be overwhelming, which is why Ithink it's really really,
really important at the stageand really any stage on your
continuous learning journey toget organized.
Um, otherwise there is thepossibility of kind of having

(01:14:51):
that fear of too much, thatanalysis, paralysis, um.
So things that I've done thathave been really helpful is, um,
you know, at the beginning,once you're starting to connect
with all these people, you aregoing to be inundated with
webinars and conferences andcool resources that people are
sharing.
I made sure to make make itreally organized in my browser.

(01:15:12):
So if there's any links thatmaybe I didn't have time to
review, or if I reviewed themand thought they were really
cool and might want to go backto it, I saved it in my browser.
I also have a Google drive thatI call continuous learning and I
have folders there for allsorts of different topics that
are Salesforce related.
So roles, um, I have a folderfor consulting, I have a folder

(01:15:33):
for part dot, and I don't evenneed to necessarily need to know
part dot today.
But if I came across a goodresource that somebody shared, I
just kind of saved it on there.
Um, the other thing that Irecommend is getting a snagit
license or some sort of licensefor something where you can
record rep webinars or recordclasses.
Um, you don't necessarily youdon't want to be necessarily be

(01:15:54):
sharing out any copyrightedinformation, but if it's
something that you might not beable to review today, um, you
could always let your recordingkind of run in the background
and save that recording for whenyou might need it later.
So an example of that for mewas as a consultant I had to
implement Salesforce maps.
At one point I did not have allthe time to learn everything

(01:16:14):
about Salesforce maps before.
I had to meet with the clientsand start talking through the
discovery process and what theyneeded.
But I had a whole folder atthat point on all the cool
resources that I had gotten onSalesforce maps that I'd never
looked at.
But it was really easy for meto access and certainly took a
lot of the edge off as I wasgoing through this.

Yeah, it's so smart being and being organized
is.
It's a skill set and it's alsoa gift.
It can be a talent.
In other words, right Like I'mnot a particularly talented
organizer, um, of my own filesand things like that.
I, you know, I need help people, I really need help.
Thank God I've got it becausethey work for me and they help
me.
So there's that.

(01:16:54):
So thank God for that.
But the thing that I've usedfor well over 10 years that has
helped me stay as organized aspossible for sort of the free
flowing brain that I've gotwhere you know, like just
absorbing a lot of stuff reallyquickly and then kind of
forgetting about it until I needit and nothing's in the right
drawer.
I use Evernote and what I loveabout Evernote is everything is

(01:17:14):
searchable, right, and when yougo to uh, let's say you go to a
session, let's say you come tomy session or Fred session or
one of Vanessa sessions, doesn'tmatter, and there's a slide
presentation, you can takephotos of every slide and then
you just dump that all intoEvernote from your phone, boom,
and then all of those words thatare inside of photos are also.

(01:17:35):
You can find them.
Right, it uses, it uses.
I forget what the name of thetech is, but it's basically
reading um and converting thephoto to a searchable text so
you can take a photo of a stopsign, put it in Evernote type in
stop Guess what?
You're going to get a pictureof a stop sign that comes up
that you put into your database.
So that's a really great way tostay, stay um well informed.

(01:17:58):
You know, just keep all of yournotes in one place, and if
you're bad at organization,because of that, the power of
its search, search functionalityand the ease of its use, I find
it way easier than Google driveUm, all your stuff's right
there.
So that's what I do.
If your brain's a little bitlike mine, I definitely
recommend checking out thatproduct.

And the one, but oh sorry what's that?

Well, similar product is Notion.
I don't think it's able to dothe photo text reading
capabilities.
I have to check into that.

Yeah, so it's already.
It's already losing.
Well, I already lost the battle.
Why are you bringing up stuffthat's losing there?

Jason, here's the advantage of Notion that I
love about it is that you can beable to link records together.
You can make a database inthere so you can actually use it
as a CRM to be able to createpages for people, and then you
can be able to tie those uhrecords to content and then put
notes in that content, and so Iuse it as my book list.
So I go to someone recommends abook Okay, cool, let me put

(01:18:50):
this in this.
Something, uh, you know for meto read.
Cool, I'm reading, I'm puttingmy notes in here, or this is
presentation, this meeting it's.
I have a page for that, I havea tag for who's speaking and
it's all searchable as well.

There you go.
So you you can do exactly thesame stuff in every note, but
you don't even need to taganything, because you can just
type in their name and it'll allcome right up.
Yeah.

And the big thing I wanted to say about the
getting organized is the thingthat I where I screwed up and
this was advice I'd gotten fromMichelle Hansen, who's an MVP
and an amazing community person,but I screwed up on this one is
that when I started gettinginvolved in the community, she
told me make sure to startdocumenting your own
accomplishments as well.
I did not.
I have totally lost track ofthings that I wrote three years

(01:19:35):
ago.
Uh, I, I don't know that I kepttrack of every speaking session
I've done at this point, and soI think it's really important,
as you embark on this journey,to also start tracking your own
accomplishments in thisecosystem as well.

Get those it's super smart, let me.
I'm just going to readsomething real quick so that
people know what the realdifferences between notion and
Evernote.
They're both cool, interestingproducts, all right.
The main difference betweennotion and Evernote is that
Evernote is a note taking toolthat allows users to keep their
files organized in one tool,whereas notion is an all in one
project management software thathelps you keep your notes and

(01:20:09):
work all in one space.
So it's a little bit of adifferent.
It's a little bit different.
I thought I'd just share thatreal quick.
I used them both.

I tried.
I tried to switch from Evernoteto notion and to me the killer
feature in Evernote is the webclipper, where you can go in and
a web clip and just take thecontent of page and take all the
ads and stuff out.
Uh, notion doesn't do that.
Notion has a web as a graph.

It's not as good.

Okay, it's not as good, it doesn't.
It doesn't do the same kind oflike page scraping that Evernote
does.
That Evernote does, and that'swhy I I pay for both great apps.

What I like about, hey Vanessa notion is if
you listen to podcasts, there'sa podcast app called sniffed
SNIPD that lets you take clipsof podcasts.
So this wonderful podcast righthere.
If you want to take clips on it, you can listen to it and sniff
, double, type your earbuds orpress a button on the phone and
it makes a clip for you and thatsyncs to notion in real time,
uh-huh.

No, that's very cool.
Nice, that's slick.
And Vanessa, my um reptilebrain already forgot what the
last thing was that you saidbefore I interrupted.
Sorry, oh, can you say it again?

What about, uh, about also organizing your own
accomplishments?
Oh, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, you know we've talked about this
before, but my guess is thatmost people listening to this
podcast have not necessarilylistened to every single episode
, and there's about 26, 27, 28of them right now, so that's a
lot of hours to get through.
So let me just share a bestpractice around this.
Right, you can do it every day.
More likely, it makes sense todo it at least once a week, or

(01:21:42):
minimally once a month.
And you just go.
You type up a little thing.
I call it failures andaccomplishments.
I include the failures, peoplebecause we learned from failure
and when we ignore them, wedon't learn as well and we don't
learn as quickly.
So there's nothing wrong withwith failing.
Ask Michael Jordan Okay, he'sgot a lot to say about that how

(01:22:02):
many free throws he's missed inhis practice, which is a great,
great story.
Great other little thing.
So you type in okay, what did Ido wrong this month?
Where did I fail?
And I was doing this early on,when I started the business, and
some incredible learnings camefrom it.
Right, it's like oh, I wasworking with clients that were
so slow to respond that, despitehaving 10 job orders with them,

(01:22:24):
I didn't place a single person.
Okay.
So what were the qualities andthings that happened?
What were the signals that thismight be this way?
I typed it up.
Where did I fail?
Well, I didn't fire him soonenough.
We do fire clients from time totime and they're not very good
clients.
So write down all of yourfailures.
Where did I fail?
I could have listened better.
I interrupted too much thismonth.
I did whatever.
It is what, and it's usually abehavior or it could be a

(01:22:48):
specific thing you did.
The behaviors will encompassevery.
You know everything and thenthere's the specific results
from those behaviors.
Then you do youraccomplishments as well.
So successes, successes andfailures.
What did I do?
Well, I closed this many dealsand I reset to this many people
and I, you know, helped thesemany people.
Or I finished this project, orI wrote these flows, or I
learned how to do this inmarketing cloud.
I had no idea how to even do it, but it was hard and I stuck

(01:23:11):
with it, and then the result wasI got a pat on the back for my
boss and the client was reallyhappy, and blah, blah, blah.
So you get the chair like notjust what the successor failure
was, but who else did it impact?
Who is affected by your lapseof success, of good decision
making that caused a failure,right?

(01:23:33):
And who did you impact by yourpositive decision making, good
decision making that helpedother people as well?
Track all that stuff.
And when you get to the end ofthe year, it's an interesting
Sunday afternoon read by friends, right to go through, because
you'll be like holy shit, Ican't believe how much I
accomplished this year.

(01:23:53):
Look at all this stuff.
And, by the way, if you want toraise and you're not capturing
this information, you know, ifyou can't remember it, your boss
won't, and so when you go andwalk in the door, you better
have the information.
You better know what you did.
You better know why you'reworth the 20k pay raise or
whatever it is that you'reasking for, right?
So track that stuff Religiously.

(01:24:16):
Start now.
In fact, if you're listening tothis, whether you're pull over
pull over your car, you know.
Pull over your electric bike,right.
Grab your phone, open up yourcalendar and schedule Sunday
night 8 pm, every Sunday, orwhatever you want to do
successes and failures list andstore it in Notion, or store it
in Evernote, or store it inGoogle Drive, where it doesn't

(01:24:37):
matter, and then set that torepeat every week.
Do it now.
People Do it now.
Don't say, yeah, that was neat,that's a really good idea.
Screw you, it doesn't doanything if you do it like that.
Sorry, look, I don't mean screwyou, I just mean like it's not
going to do anything to people.
Okay, I'm trying to be a jerkhere, but just do it.
And that means do it right now.
The number one thing I everlearned from going to doing this

(01:25:00):
Tony Robbins thing when I was30 years old, which is 21 years
ago, I stayed up late.
I spent 200 bucks.
I stayed up late 3 am.
I spent the 200 bucks on thecassette tapes, got through half
of them in my life changed andit was really awesome and not
joking, I get changeddramatically.
And the number one thing that Ilearned from from that cassette

(01:25:20):
number one was once you make adecision to do something, do
something about it right then.
Don't leave the desk, don't putthe phone down, don't like make
the phone call, put somethingin the calendar, google search,
like, whatever the thing is thatyou're oh, I want to learn
piano.
Great, figure that out.
Block out the time to learn howto learn the piano or get on

(01:25:43):
and start looking at pianos orwhatever.
Phone a friend who's got apiano and say can you show me a
couple of things?
Do something about it.
Do something about it.
Do it right now.

All right, that's all I wanted to say, all right,
well, I've got my last step andthen that's the end of the
action plan.
So get so.
First it's get focused, thenget connected, then get informed
, then get organized.
Lastly, it's get social.
So share, contribute, build inpublic, post, comment, be
authentic People are veryattracted to authenticity and

(01:26:12):
it'll also help attract peoplewho might share resources on
your interests if you post aboutthem.
And it doesn't necessarily haveto be LinkedIn or Twitter.
It could be mentorship, butcould be networking, it could be
conferences.
I know what you know when Q ison like Q talked to me about how
she didn't feel like she was acontent creator, and so I talked

(01:26:32):
about my journey, how I startedkind of considering myself as a
content amplifier.
So if I saw something that wasreally useful and cool along in
my journey, I shared that.
I thanked people publicly.
You know, sharing what you'reup to, what your next steps are
and what you learned will alsoattract people who will also
give you additional informationalong the way.
So it's it's.

(01:26:54):
It'll also help you documentyour journey to as you're going
through it.
The big thing I would say not todo is to you don't want to
steal content.
I think grabbing somebody'sreally good post and switching
out a couple words is alsostealing content.
You don't want to be a parrot,so certainly research.

(01:27:14):
If something does lookinteresting, make sure that it's
an informed decision before yourepost it and also don't be
afraid to look stupid Like.
Share your failures as well.
You know there's somebody thatmight be able to learn from it.
You know, one of my mostpopular posts like was after I
had failed the service cloudcertification like three times
and then a video and theneventually passed and made like
a comic out of it just because Iwas.

(01:27:36):
I thought it was funny andpeople you know it really
resonated with a lot of folksbecause I rescheduled the thing
like 20 times in between thosethree failures as well.
So I do think that it's helpfulon your career journey and
finding and getting connectedwith those resources when you
actually build in public.

Hey Vanessa, have you thought of maybe this is
such good content?
I was thinking you should maybetry and get a session at
Dreamforce to share this stuff.

I closed Dreamforce with this thing.

I know, I know I'm just being funny.
I love this session, man.
This has been terrific and itmight be a little bit tricky to
follow it because I butt in alot and we've had some tangents
and stuff, but we are trying todo.
You have hold on, jason, do youhave slides on this, Vanessa,
or anything like that you do?
Are they public, like, is therea link that we can share where

(01:28:32):
people can access this stuff?

Yeah, I'm happy to share it All right, that
would be cool.

Yeah, that would be cool.
I think it's really awesome.
I just I love this content andit's so straightforward and it's
just.
It's a roadmap you want totrail.
Well, vanessa, just laid it outfor you, everybody, everybody,
and whether you're gettingstarted or not, you could take
half of these points.
Whether you could be anexecutive in a career that you

(01:28:59):
already love that just wants toget better, you can still use
half of this information to getbetter.
Jason, go ahead.

Yeah, I just want to clarify one point that
Vanessa made about the repostingthing.
I think it's excellent Just aswe're talking with invitations
how you want to grow a networkcautiously.
You want to repost cautiously,not just like say everything,
you're saying nothing.
But I do want to also encouragepeople that reposting is a way

(01:29:27):
to eventually become an awesomeperson, like a fraction is
awesome, as Vanessa Grant is.
So if you ever want to reachthat awesome level, before
you're a content creator, be acontent curator and before that,
be a content commenter andbefore that, be a content
consumer, so be a consumer, getthat information so that you're
first getting the information,that you're understanding the

(01:29:48):
terms, you're immersing yourselfin the environment, then you
can start to comment and that'llget people introduced to who
you are.
You're giving back, you'repaying forward, you're letting
them know how the information isbeing received, you're helping
those posts and then you arereposting what you feel is
relevant for your network to beable to see.

(01:30:10):
As Janine was saying, you wantto make sure that you have
people in your network that youwant that you know would be
helped by this information.
And then you can be competentenough to have your own words
come to life.

Yep, that's the way it goes.
I love this term contentamplifier.
I love that, vanessa.
I've never heard that before,except maybe by you a few weeks
ago or something like that.
I think it's terrific.
Guys, it's already 7 0, 5 outhere on the East Coast and that
means we've been chatting for anhour and a half.
That's a nice, solid session.
But sometimes when we havethese programs, people have

(01:30:46):
questions that they wantanswered.
So I'm just going to check inwith Vanessa real quick.
Did you receive any questionsover the past week that people
wanted to answer it on thepodcast?

I do have one question.

Okay, and before we go ahead and ask that, let's
just share if you're stilllistening to the show.
If you have a question you wantto answer live, we've got a few
more minutes we're happy tospend some time on it.
All you've got to do is raiseyour hand, we'll bring you to
the stage and if you're feelinga little shy, you can just send
a DM to Vanessa Grant and she'llread it aloud and we'll do our
best to get a good response foryou.
All right, vanessa, go for it.

(01:31:19):
What's the question there?

All right.
The question I got was Irecently went through a few
rounds of interviews to reach no.
It's clear the candidate poolat this moment is really
competitive.
Any advice for weathering atough job market?

Hmm, that's a good question.
That's a good question.
I mean, I've got some advice,but let's hit the panel first.
Vanessa, Fred, Jason, Stephen,Janine.
Any recommendations?
Otherwise I'll just take it.

I think you should just pick it, Josh.

Yeah.

Janine.

Yeah, I mean, as somebody who's a candidate
myself, I would say be patientand cast a wide net.
Just keep interviewing.
Yeah, just keep interviewing.
Don't.
If you think you know I'm inround four, I'm in round five,
just keep interviewing, don'tstop.
Don't make assumptions.
Be open to the possibility ofending up with multiple offers.
If that's the case, great, yeah, yeah.

I think that's really good advice.
Look, I mean I could probablytalk for about an hour on this
subject, but I'll try and keepit nice and lean, all right.
So the first thing that youhave to do in a competitive job
market is you have to exerciseyour body and I'm not even
joking people, I know it soundsweird, but you must exercise
your body and you don't have tothrash yourself with an inch of
death.
But you better go on a 25minute walk every day, like you

(01:32:37):
got to do something to keep yourattitude up.
There's no like not having ajob, or being in a job that you
can't wait to get out of, orbeing in a job that you're not
making enough money and you'rejust every month you're getting
further and further into debt.
Or maybe you have a job and youdon't like your boss, and maybe
you have a job and like you'rejust not respected, like it

(01:32:58):
affects you, it will bum you outand it will be demanding and
costly to your mental health.
And so the first way to takecare of your mental health is
take care of your physicalhealth, right, I think everybody
who's on this panel andanybody's listening to this show
, everybody knows someone who'sgoing through something
physically Right.

(01:33:18):
Someone's got cancer.
I know about three or fourpeople that have cancer right
now, right, some of them got ahard problem, some of them's
parents not well, or you mightjust have COVID, or you might
just feel sick, or you mighthave a bad Achilles heel, or
like it doesn't matter.
So taking care of your body iscritical, and the proof is in

(01:33:38):
the pudding.
They took a number of peoplewho were depressed and half of
them didn't get anything and noone was working out right, no
one was exercising.
They took half these people andthey put them on an exercise
program.
They took the other half andput them in to not physical
therapy, psychology.
They talked to a therapist,social worker, therapist,

(01:34:02):
whatever and the results werethe same.
The same amount of people gotbetter doing both things.
An exercise is free, so do that.
You must protect your mentalhealth, okay.
The other thing is you have toput this stuff where it belongs,
which is like we were talkingbefore, not up on a pedestal.
If I get this job, it's gonnasolve all my problems.
Well, that's bullshit.

(01:34:22):
It's not gonna happen.
You're gonna have new people.
You're gonna have newchallenges.
You're gonna have new demands.
You might have to work longerhours.
The money, which seemed reallygreat, might not seem so great
six months from now or 12 monthsfrom now, as everything costs
10% more down the line, right?
So don't think that this jobthat you're after is the panacea
for all of life's ills, butit's an important thing, right?

(01:34:44):
So, number one take care ofyour body.
That consequently takes care ofyour mental health.
I think it's the number onething you have to do to stay in
the game, right?
The other thing that you haveto do in a tight career, in a
tight market and I don't it'stighter.
I wouldn't say it's tight okay,like it's tighter than it was,
but I wouldn't say it's tightokay.

(01:35:06):
And I think it's a muchactually average, normal,
regular, balanced ecosystemright now where you can actually
find some people.
But finding the very best ofthe best is always going to be a
struggle.
It's still gonna be difficult.
Whoever asked this question, Iwanna tell you something too
congratulations If you made itthree or four rounds.
You really did something greatthere, like you did a good job.

(01:35:28):
But you've got to ask yourselfwhat did you potentially do to
blow it?
Now, I had a candidate, and Idon't mind if he's listening to
this.
I doubt that he is, but I had acandidate and he blew it in the
final interview.
It was his to lose and he blewit.
So you've got to keep your shittogether, people, right?
Don't say dumb things, don'tstart making crazy requests

(01:35:52):
until you have a signed offer.
Just don't do it.
Right Like.
You can be authentic, you canbe yourself and you can speak
your mind, but you better befricking eye on the ball for
what you want.
You want the job?
Well, play the interview game,and I'm not saying lie.
Absolutely don't do that.
Be authentic, be real, beyourself.
But if you've got personalitychallenges, if you've got a

(01:36:13):
problem with your personality,or if you've got focus
challenges, right, like someonescattered all over the place, or
if you've got insane demandslike you wrote yourself the
perfect job description andyou're almost ready to get this
job that meets about half thoserequirements.
You need the job because youdon't have one.
Don't go in there saying, ohand I want this and I want that

(01:36:35):
and can I do this and can I dothat before you've got a signed
offer, because that's juststupid.
So I'm just saying this becausemost people who don't get the
job after three or fourinterviews.
Look, they don't get it, notbecause someone's necessarily
better than them.
They get it because they dropthe ball somehow somewhere.

(01:36:56):
Right, like, getting a job isdeep.
It's a big thing, it's a hugething.
You might not have gotten thejob already simply because you
didn't know that the person thatyou're competing with is a
Golden Hoodie MVP, and they want$20,000, $30,000 less than you.
Sorry, you're just gonna losethat battle.
Potentially potentially notalways, but more likely you

(01:37:17):
probably would.
Okay.
So if that's not you, if youdon't have all those credentials
, if you don't have all of thatbackground, if you don't have
all that experience, if you'renot the best communicator in the
world, if you don't know how toarticulate your successes, if
you never recorded yoursuccesses and failures for the
past year, what are you gonnahave to talk about?
How will you know, right, ifyou didn't practice your
interviewing, how well do youthink you're gonna do in the

(01:37:38):
interview, right?
So take stock, don't lose heart, but take stock.
What could I have donedifferent?
And then make that decision todo it different.
And then, before you do itdifferently, live in an
interview, practice it 10 or 20or 50 or 100 or 200 times so
that you're good at it.

(01:37:58):
Okay, that's the thing to do ina slightly down or tightened
job market, right?
Basically, the summary isexercise, take care of your
mental health, don't quit, don'tgive up and make sure that
you're actually assessingyourself accurately.
Don't beat yourself up.
You're not a loser because youdidn't get the offer.
You're a winner because youmade it two, three rounds.

(01:38:19):
You can make it one round andyou're still a winner.
You can make it no rounds.
You can be sending stuff out to500 companies and not get a
single interview right.
It doesn't mean that there'ssomething wrong with you.
It just means that there'sprobably something wrong with
your resume, probably somethingwrong with your LinkedIn profile
, or maybe a lot of people thatI talk to that are feeling deep,

(01:38:39):
deep, deep frustrations aroundnot getting job offers or not
getting interviews actuallyaren't applying to the jobs that
they're qualified for.
You gotta get back to basics.
Are you even qualified for this?
If not, why not?
Where are the jobs that you arehighly qualified?
Did you try to pick somethingso far outside your industry
that someone else is going to bethe obvious choice?

(01:39:02):
If you're not the obviouschoice?
You're obviously not going tobe.
It's not going to be a quick,easy hire right.
So what are you applying tothat?
You're getting the nose on,fred.
We'll kick it to you.

Yeah, no, and I think you were going in the
direction I was about to take it, because the person's reference
in the question one interviewseries where they did three or
four interviews and they didn'tget the role.
And I guess my question or myquestion back would be is that
one experience or is thatsomething that's played out a
dozen times, six times?
And last time I was in the jobmarket actively looking for a

(01:39:37):
role was probably two years agoand I intentionally took some
time off after being in an SIfor four years and I really and
Josh, this is when you and Ifirst met.
You know this I talked to 50SIs.
I'm not joking, I'm notexaggerating.
Some of them were like oneconversation and it wasn't going

(01:39:57):
to be a good fit.
Some of them went two or threeconversations and we decided to
kind of part at that point.
Some of them went the distance.
I ended up with three reallysolid offers from three great
SIs, but it is a lot of work.
This is, if it's one experiencewhere you went the distance,

(01:40:18):
like you said, or like I thinkVanessa said I'm not sure who,
you don't know who yourcompetition was, you could have
just gotten beat out or, likeJosh, you said you could have
beat yourself out of it, butmake sure you're casting that
wide net.
And the tighter the job market,the wider the net.
And I'd refer also back tosomething Vanessa said in her
presentation.
That's why you build thenetwork.

(01:40:40):
You build the network so thatwhen you're out looking for
things, the best roles I've evergotten have come from people
that I've networked with.
And I would say, for peoplethat aren't this active job
hunter, that are still in thepassive role, now's the time to
lay that groundwork.

Absolutely.
I love all that, fred Guys.
It's listen, let me just getempathetic for a second.
I'm sorry, it's hard.
I've been there.
It's scary, okay, like Iunderstand the level of fear.
It feels oppressive.

(01:41:18):
It's like there's a gorilla onyour shoulder not a monkey, but
an ape weighing you down.
You don't feel all of a sudden,you don't feel like you've got
control over your career.
So what do you start doing?
You exert your controlelsewhere.
You start controlling yourchildren.
You start controlling yourpartner or your spouse.
You start being snippy tocashiers, like it's a bad road.

(01:41:40):
Don't go down that right.
Happiness comes from gratitude.
So take stock of what you havebeen able to accomplish and give
thanks, whether that's toyourself or to your family or to
a higher power, if you believein that Right.
Give thanks and have gratitudeand get ready for the next one.

(01:42:01):
Okay, let it go.
Learn something, move on, keepgoing, keep going.
You know Stephanie, who's onour show a lot, vanessa, right,
like what did it take her?
Like a year?
Oh yeah, she ended her firstthing but she didn't quit.

Yeah, I was actually gonna throw in a little
trick that my friend PaymanLumb taught me as far as keeping
up that positive attitude andkind of coming from a place of
gratitude for the things thatyou have.
So she created a WhatsApp groupfor me.
It was just me and her and shecalled it Vanessa's Joy Box and

(01:42:37):
then she left the group.
So it was just me and thisWhatsApp group called Vanessa's
Joy Box, and anytime somebodysays something nice to me on the
internet or I have a friendcall me, or I think there was
one time I was on the phone withJanine for like two hours and I
saved the screen capturecapturing that we were on the
phone for two hours.
Just little things that I couldlook back on, that I could just

(01:42:59):
scroll through and make me feelgood about myself.

Vanessa, that is the coolest thing.
That's so much cooler than adream board Like for real.
You know, doesn't have to haveFerraris and boats, it's just
people.
That were nice, niceexperiences Also.
Let me share this too, causethis is a really great practice.
I'm not particularly consistentabout it, but you know, anyway,

(01:43:24):
I'm just not that consistentabout it, but I have my good
streaks from time to time andit's having like a daily
meditation practice.
Casey and I try to do this.
She could talk right now.
She'd be like, well, we haven'tdone it in two weeks, that's
true, so we did it.
Oh, I guess we did it a littlebit this morning actually, which
was cool, where you just goback and try and think of two or
three memories, that where youjust felt great, right, and

(01:43:47):
usually when I'm doing that I'mthinking about my children and
I'm thinking about my kids andthey were little and or you know
a friend who was kind, you know, or getting to go to a special
place out in nature and justthat moment, and just kind of
live in that space for about aminute each.
Do that two or three times, andthen we'll do a little bit of
energy, breathing stuff, andthen we'll spend a few minutes

(01:44:08):
literally three minutes, oneminute each for a future memory,
right, so that you can imagineit.
And then you want to like, feelit, sense it, truly experience
it.
And the beauty is your braindoesn't know the difference
between imagined and real.
That's why we can wake up froma nightmare and have a shitty
day Because, as far as you know,that happened.

(01:44:31):
As far as your brain know, youknow it didn't happen, but as
far as your brain knows theeffects, the same right.
You're having cortisol andadrenaline pumping through your
body in the middle of the nightwhile you're having some scary
dream or something right?
Well, you get to control thiswhen you're awake that's the
good news.
And you get to put yourself inan almost dream state of
imagining what it's going to belike when you accomplish X, y

(01:44:54):
and Z, or just imaginingsomething nice and beautiful
that you want to experience thatyou haven't yet, right?
Whatever it is.
I'm usually thinking aboutthings like you know, the growth
of the business, or how will itfeel when I'm done writing the
new pages for the website?
Or like it can be small andtask oriented, like that, or it

(01:45:15):
could be, you know, like, oh, Ireally want like this, about 30
different boats that I want tobuy and I'm not going to buy any
of them right now, but likethere's like 30 boats I love, I
just think that's so cool and Ijust imagine myself on the back
of one of these boats, anchoredoff the Bahamas, with, you know,
all of our kids jumping in thewater, like, so you do those
things and it'll lift you up forwhat lies ahead in this

(01:45:39):
unknowing thing that happens inour waking world called life
right.
So, no matter what you've gotto cover, it Absolutely.

And it's a Tony Robbins thing, too, like
remember he made an impact on mein that he spoke at Dreamforce
2016, before he even gotinvolved in the community, and
one of the things that he saidthat always stuck with me is
that you can't be grateful andsad at the same time.
You can't be grateful and angryat the same time.

That's right.

So, on gratitude, you will change how you feel.

Absolutely, and that's a terrific point, vanessa
.
Thanks for reminding all of us.
Go ahead, jason.

What needs to be grateful for is not just the
future, because you're right inthat the brain doesn't know the
difference between the futureand the present.
So if you're imagining thefuture, you're giving yourself
that confidence that you arethat person, that is your
identity.
So this way you can overcomethat posture syndrome.
But you want to be careful,because you may lose momentum,
you may lose motivation,thinking oh, I've already done

(01:46:34):
it.
So you don't want to just fallin love with the destination.
You also want to love thejourney, because that never
changes.
You are the means.
There is no end.
And so you want to love theprocess, have a process that you
could be able to do, giveyourself energy I love.
Your first bit of advice was towork out you want those healthy

(01:46:55):
half-course.
I really just cannot.

Jason, you really broke up there a little bit.

Can you just?

repeat that last little part.
Well, I was going to say thatthere's the motto of work like a
workforce, but the problem isthat workhorses will eventually
run out of energy.
Humans, biologically in nature,we are actually stronger than
horses, because we have theability to run further, if not
just faster in the moment, butwe can be able to go further.
We have that endurance.

(01:47:23):
So consider about being able tohave habits that don't kill you
but bring you to life.

Yeah, the habit of putting one foot in front of
the other and keep doing thatRight.
Loving the process.
Yeah, that's a wonderful point.
A beautiful point too.
I've seen this with familymembers, people I love, people
I'm very close to, who have setout to do something similar to
what I'm doing now.
They had a business, they mademillions of dollars.

(01:47:53):
They thought they'd be happywhen they got there.
Anyone know the end of thestory?
I think you guys do.
They weren't.
They got there and they weren'thappy, and it was a hard road
to get those achievements andthey got there and it's like now
, what?
So, jason, what you're sharingis critical and it's just like

(01:48:17):
that quote, that Chinese quotefrom earlier.
It's about living in thepresent.
So what can I do now?
What can I do right now toserve me best?
And sometimes that's like well,maybe I need to just not apply
to jobs for a week, take a breakInstead of looking at jobs and

(01:48:38):
what's out there which, by theway, let's face, it isn't that
far off from watching YouTubeshorts.
It can be addictive.
Maybe it's this one.
Maybe, just like playingBlackjack, I'll flip the card.
What's this opening that Icould apply to Get away from
that for a little bit and reallyanalyze.
What do I really want to do?
Why do I want this.

(01:48:59):
Why have I made it important?
Is my back against the wall?
If not, why not?
Why must I make this a must?
It's got to go from I want toit it's a must.
And when it's a must, it meansthat it's going to affect you.
It's going to affect a lot ofpeople your family, your kids,
your friends, the clients thatyou'll take on, the company that
you're going to commit to andwork hard, when they're paying

(01:49:21):
you for your knowledge andexperience and execution.
So you've got to make it a must.
Put your back against the walland then do absolutely
everything that you can, anddon't expect it to be easy.
I also recommend strongly,strongly, strongly, strongly
Feed your mind.
Feed your mind with how tos,not just the tech stuff, not
just the trailhead stuff.

(01:49:42):
You can read atomic habits.
You can read the 10x principle.
You can read the obstacles, theway.
These are three great books.
They'll take a little bit oftime to get through,
particularly if you're actuallypausing and then putting into
action the recommendations thatthese knowledgeable authors have
shared with you.
So invest in yourself and feedyourself.

(01:50:04):
So you've got to feed yourknowledge about how to be better
, more efficient, how to makebetter choices, how to actually
make decisions and then how tonot quit and go down the road.
So I strongly recommend doingthat.
I recommend a morning routinethat involves some of this
meditation, some of these audiobooks, walking exercises.
You can do it all in about 30minutes, right, or an hour in
the morning before you evenstart your day, and you're going

(01:50:26):
to start your day right.
Let's bring this wonderfulepisode to a wrap.
We will be back in two weeks.
I think we've got a guest.
I can't remember if we do ornot, but I'm sure it's going to
be interesting.
Give everybody enough advancenotice and I strongly recommend,
if you're listening to thispodcast right now, you do a
couple things One like it,subscribe, ring the bell, all
that normal stuff and if you'reusing a platform like Apple

(01:50:50):
where you can actually reviewthe podcast, would you do us a
favor and review it?
We've had some exceptionaladvancements in our listenership
over the last month.
In fact, I want to say it'sgrown by about 25, 30%, which is
fantastic.
I attribute that to Greenforceand all of us passing out tons
of stickers.
So maybe that's what it is, butif this is your first time
listening, we appreciate yougetting all the way to the end

(01:51:11):
of a two-hour episode.
Good job, I don't think we'regoing to split this into two.
So what that means is thereprobably will not be a released
podcast two weeks from now.
It'll probably just be one bigas long two-hour session, this
one, next week, and then we'llpick this back up.
And in the meantime, if you'vegot further questions,

(01:51:31):
definitely scroll through thetitles on the podcast, because
we answer a lot of the questionsthat you have have been
answered already.
All right, you just got to kindof dig through.
Read some of the titles again.
There's about 25, 30 episodesup there.
And the last thing I want to dois just say a huge thanks to
Vanessa.
Vanessa and I.
We've known each other forseveral years.
You've been part of this showfor I don't know what is it like

(01:51:52):
three years now?
Four years?
Is it four years?
I think it's like four.

I'm like three.

Three, I don't know we yeah, I think it was.
I think it's three years nowand I think it would be right
around three years, this month,something like that.
So Vanessa, who's a dear friendof mine, clearly you guys can
tell, since you've beenlistening, she knows her stuff.
It's not the easiest thing towalk this walk that she has in

(01:52:20):
her own career and distill thisinformation down.
You heard about her ability toorganize and research and learn.
She's a pro at it and she'sdistilled this stuff down for
you in this episode and in herpresentation and in, hopefully,
the PDFs, the slides that I'mhoping we can release.
She's put this stuff togetherfor you guys to help you.

(01:52:42):
So do me a favor and throw her alike or thank you whenever you
can and whatever she says, justfollow that advice.
It's strongly recommended.
In other words, face your fearright, make good decisions,
invest in your learning all ofthese things that we talked
about tonight.
So thank you, vanessa.
Thanks also to Jason we loveyour insights.

(01:53:04):
Thanks, janine, we love yourinsights as well and all of your
contributions to the community.
Thank you to all of our livelisteners and a special thank
you also to my friend, fredKedena.
Fred and I actually recorded adifferent podcast this morning.
Fred, why don't you just take amoment and tell people where
they can listen to this podcastand others that you've created?

Yeah, absolutely Thanks, Josh.
I'm really excited to make theannouncement.
My podcast, the Banking onDisruption Podcast, talks a lot
about fintech banking in theSalesforce context Recently went
through a format change wherewe have a section at the end
called Quicktakes.
That used to be just two people, Now it's a roundtable and Josh

(01:53:49):
has agreed to join theroundtable.
So if you can't get enough Joshon his podcast, I hope you will
tune into the Banking onDisruption Podcast.
You can find it on ApplePodcasts, Spotify, wherever you
get your podcasts.
Last couple of episodes twoweeks ago we had Janina's a
guest, Two weeks before that,Vanessa.
So a lot of the same content.

(01:54:11):
Love that you got here.
Invite people to check it out.
Thank you very much.

Thanks for sharing, Fred, Vanessa.
Any final words?

No.
Thanks for letting me share.
Believe it or not, this was a20 minute session, so I
appreciate all the feedback thatyou guys also put for this.
Make for good conversations.
Love it, thank you.

Well, that just tells me one thing is that I
talk five times more than Ishould.
Oh, oh well.
Incredible session.
Thank you, vanessa, thankseverybody, thank you audience.
You guys rock and keep up thegood fight.
We'll be back in two weeks.
Have a wonderful, wonderful,wonderful early October.
Enjoy the fall.

(01:54:50):
Bye for now.

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