Forging Your Path in Salesforce: A European Conference Adventure + AMA

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What if you could gain valuable insights and career advice from Salesforce experts, learn from Trailblazers who've overcome obstacles, and hear inspiring personal stories from the Salesforce community? Join us on this exciting episode as we share our experiences from three conferences we attended in Europe: London's Calling, YeurDreaming, and Yeur Lead-In. Our cohost, Vanessa Grant, shares her inspiring Salesforce Euro journey.

We discuss the importance of business analysis and personal connections in the Salesforce community. We also explore the challenges of stage fright and offer advice for those facing similar situations. Learn how practicing under duress can lead to greater success and why specializing in one area of Salesforce may not be as crucial as you might think.

In our final segment we are joined by Mark Baker from our previous episode, and Salesforce leader Fred Cadena as we delve into navigating the job market, providing tips for standing out in interviews, and discussing the impact of the Great Resignation. We also share the importance of finding the right career path and surrounding yourself with supportive people. Don't miss this episode packed with valuable information, inspiration, and advice to help you on your Salesforce journey!

Episode Transcript

Announcer (00:02):
And now the number one audio program that helps you
to hire, get hired and soarhigher in the Salesforce
ecosystem.
It's the Salesforce career showwith Josh Matthews and Vanessa
Grant.

Josh Matthews (00:21):
And now something or other Salesforce
career show.
We're jumping right intochatting with Vanessa Grant, our
beautiful co-host, our esteemedco-host, and she has just
returned from a trip to Europe,where she spent time in London.
She spent time in Brussels, shespent time on a cobblestone

(00:42):
street on her face after fallingoff of a scooter.
We're sorry about that, but wewant to hear all about it.
We've got some terrificquestions that we'd like to
answer for you, and hopefullyMark can pipe up on some of
these questions as well.
Welcome, vanessa Grant.
Welcome back to the good oldUnited States of America.
How are you doing?

Vanessa Grant (01:03):
I'm still getting over the jet lag, but I'm
leaving with my heart full.

Josh Matthews (01:08):
Okay, so you got to go to London, colin.
We announced that on one of ourprior shows.

Vanessa Grant (01:16):
Yeah, i went to three conferences actually.
So I went to What I went toLondon's Calling, which is
actually a huge conference.
I think it was probably closeto a thousand people there, if I
had to guess.
And then I went to Brussels forYour Dreaming, which is a
pretty standard dream and event.
I would say probably 200 peoplethere.

(01:36):
And then I went to Your Lead-Inthe next day, which was
specifically tailored forSalesforce community leaders.
Well, that was a smaller group,i would say probably 60 folks.

Josh Matthews (01:53):
That's a nice tight little, tight-knit group.
Yeah, and now you didn't goover specifically for those
other two, right?
Like the initial, the greatestimpetus to jumping on a plane
going all the way across 3,000plus miles across the United
States and then all the wayacross the pond, was to go to
London's Calling.

Vanessa Grant (02:12):
It was not actually.

Josh Matthews (02:14):
It was not.

Vanessa Grant (02:14):
I will tell you No, I will tell you, I'm just
getting it's like I don't evenknow you anymore.

Josh Matthews (02:20):
You don't know me anymore, Josh.

Vanessa Grant (02:22):
I'm sorry You know, and I don't know that she
knows this either, but thereason why I ended up booking
for London specifically isaround last November, i don't
know.
I think I made some randomTwitter comment about Twitter
fame being weird, and I don'tknow if you're familiar with
Gemma Blizzard, but she is veryprominent in the UK Salesforce

(02:43):
community.
She started Ladies Be Architect, architects Be Architect Club.
She's an amazing person and shecommented on one of my tweets
and said you are famous, i wouldlove to meet you, please come
to London.
And it was such a kind of alike a just a little comment
tweet.
But that was the moment that Idecided that I would be in
London for London's Calling And,in the hopes that that she

(03:05):
would you know, if I could getjust a little bit of her time to
get to know her, that thatwould be worth it.
And boy was it worth it.
It was, it was really.
I mean, of course, this gettingto speak at London's Calling
just made the trip even moreworth it.
I'm really glad that I got toattend and that I also got to
speak.
It was my first solo speakingsession and I got to do it

(03:27):
internationally, so that was ahuge deal for me, but really I
went over because of the people.
Specifically, it was for Gemmaand I was so grateful that I got
to spend like two days at herhouse and we barbecued and I met
her parents and we stayed uptil 4 am talking about
Salesforce and life and that'sreally why I went to London.

Josh Matthews (03:47):
That's fantastic And it was.
You know, 4 am London, butreally it was like 10 o'clock,
right.

Vanessa Grant (03:54):
Yeah, well, yeah.

Josh Matthews (03:57):
And so you and I had a chance to catch up just
the other day, and you shared alot of information about Gemma.
What a wonderful person she is.
And, by the way, if anyone hereis interested in ladies be
architects, of course bearchitects.
Of course you can just Googleit.
You can also visit the expandexchange.
Just go to expandexchangecom,which is the directory that

(04:19):
Vanessa and I put together forall of you listeners, at your
request to identify topresources in the Salesforce
ecosystem that aren'tnecessarily hosted by Salesforce
, right?
So be sure to check that out.

Vanessa Grant (04:33):
Yeah, absolutely, and she's got a great book out
on Amazon Hurricane Gemmatalking about her Salesforce
story and you know she'scurrently battling cancer, so
that's been a big part of herjourney as well And she also has
a website where you can learnSalesforce with Gemma that she
created specifically for peoplethat are trying to break into

(04:55):
the ecosystem.
How to learn Salesforce.

Josh Matthews (04:58):
And do you know where they came in?
And, by the way, gemma isspelled with a G, correct?
G-E-M-M-A, m-m-a yes.
Okay.
So if you're going to Google ortry to identify her on LinkedIn
, that's the spelling that youwould go for.
If there's a single takeawaythat you picked up aside from,
of course, the deeper emotionalbonds that come with connecting

(05:22):
with someone who's not just afriend but also having a shared
experience in the same ecosystemkind of curious was there?
was there from the conference?
was there any big moment?
Was there something thatsomeone shared or an experience
that you had, perhaps duringyour presentation?
that was a little bit of a ho.

Vanessa Grant (05:45):
I think for me my big takeaways, besides the
connecting with people in thecommunity, was again the
importance of business analysis.
It was surprising to me howeven these sessions that weren't
focused on user stories broughtup user stories and brought up
discovery and brought uprequirements gathering.
So even to Mark's point earlierabout how important discovery

(06:10):
and requirements are, it wasvery much reiterated to me that
business analysis does go acrossall Salesforce projects, all it
is the foundation of any goodSalesforce implementation.
And yeah, that and I will sayby speaking with Gemma I was so

(06:32):
impressed by she talked to me alot about how she had put her
consultancy together And I gotto see, like some of her
onboarding documentation, thevalue of documentation and
having strong values.
Again to Mark's earlier point ofhaving a strong vision and a
strong culture at the top andhow that can permeate down to
your employees and really helpdrive the business and the

(06:57):
values and the quality wasreally inspiring to me.
And I would say the lasttakeaway for me was just having,
i guess, even just going acrossthe world really and having
people still say that my contenthas resonated with them,
anything things that I've putout or things that I've said

(07:19):
have impacted them and findingnew jobs or inspired them in
their careers.
It really left me with afeeling of inspiration, of kind
of continuing on what I'm doing.
I got a little bit jaded, iwill say, with the layoffs and
some of the drama with the certsand the MVP program and all
that stuff, but it's reallyamazing to see the impact that

(07:43):
community people can haveglobally to really change
people's lives.

Josh Matthews (07:52):
You know and you've changed a lot of people's
lives and, in particular, withyour very eloquent and I'll just
say it's a real deep dive intothe role of the business analyst
.
Vanessa, where can people findthis extensive article that you
pen?

Vanessa Grant (08:11):
Oh, if you look me up on Sales Force Ben, i did
recently put out an article on30 interview questions for
business analysts and that wasvery well received, and we'll
see if my I did a talk in Londonon user stories that I imagine
will be on YouTube probably in acouple months, but I'm hoping

(08:33):
to maybe even refine thatsession a little bit more, and I
don't know that businessanalysts get a lot of great
training as far as how to doSales Force user stories, so
hopefully I can spread the wordand just make us all better.
That's really always been mygoal is how do I, how can I help
create some of the bestpractices that I think we're

(08:54):
missing from Trailhead in orderto make things better for all
business analysts?

Josh Matthews (08:59):
Absolutely And, by the way, our number one most
listened to podcast of all timeand I say all time.
It's five and a half months,guys.
Okay, but our most listened topodcast of all time, which broke
over 300 listens or over 300downloads, is actually.
The real number is a lot closerto 450 when we aggregate.

(09:20):
Everything was Vanessa'ssession about three or four
episodes ago about businessanalysis, and you can find that
by going to Spotify or yourfavorite podcast platform.
Type in Salesforce career willpop up number one And you just
scroll down three or fourepisodes and you'll see business
, business analyst episode.

(09:41):
Right, it might say.
The business analyst blueprintmight have some flowery language
, but at the core of it isVanessa describing the article
that she wrote, as well as deepdiving a little bit more into
the importance of the role ofbusiness analysts.
So be sure to check that out.
Well, thank you, vanessa.
Is there anything else thatyou'd like to share that's
noteworthy, whether it's aboutscooters and cobblestones,

(10:05):
Brussels friends that you made,whatever it happens to be?

Vanessa Grant (10:10):
Gosh, so many friends and it's the again.
Networking is so important inthis industry, but it's also
great to connect as people And Ithink one of the easiest way to
do that is, yes, we talkSalesforce, but ask personal
questions.
Talk about yourself as a realperson, come with your authentic
self And I had wonderful timesconnecting with like Paymon Lim,

(10:36):
who runs the Zinhao Academy.
He's amazing.
Oh my goodness, that woman cansee into any person's soul.
You can see what makes her sucha great project manager and
consultant, tom Bassett.
He's one of the number oneanswers on the Trailhead
Community Boards And what anamazing guy.
He ended up kind of being likemy best friend on the trip.
He ended up even coming out toBrussels spontaneously to hang

(11:00):
out with me And what a genuinewonderful person, even though he
was not the first to me when Ifell off the electric scooter
and my face planted into thecobblestones in Brussels, but he
got me home safe.
After that Gemma Blezard, ofcourse, francis Pinder and even
just speaking to Trailblazersabout their journeys like I met

(11:21):
this guy, paul Foley, who isfrom Northern Ireland, where
they don't really even know whatSalesforce is, and just hearing
his story about how he came toLondon and was staying in
hostels and learned Salesforce.
Now he's a consultant forFluido.
Like amazing stories that arejust inspiring.
Like I, you know gosh, i couldgo on.
You know Todd, todd Halfpenny.

(11:42):
I mean just going to thecommunity events, even if you're
traveling, go check out and seeif there's any Trailblazer
community events going on.
Get to know the folks in thecommunity, get a little bit of
outside of your, your spaces.
There are amazing people inthis, in this industry, on a
professional and a personallevel that can really, i don't

(12:03):
know, like broker connections,that that you wouldn't even
think possible.
I always say when you go to aconference you never know who
you're going to leave with, andI don't mean that in a saucy way
, but like in a I just I'malways surprised when I leave a
conference which friends I madethat I didn't expect to make.

Josh Matthews (12:20):
It's so true, and I love what you said about
connecting with people in a veryreal way and how important that
is when you're going to theseconferences.
And with that in mind, i hopeyou don't mind.
I'd like to ask you something,and it's personal, it's you'll
have to be a little bitvulnerable, but I think you're
going to be okay with it.
You know, sometimes when wetalk, vanessa, you'll share with

(12:40):
me a little bit about stagefright.
Right, yeah, yeah.
So it's this thing that happens.
And yet here you are, travelingoverseas giving presentations,
pulling significant weight onthis podcast and this live

(13:00):
program for years, doingmentoring, so you're in the
public eye in a much broader wayand at scale in a way that you
know.
Three years ago it just wasn'tthe case, but now you are.
And every time I hear you onthe show or any time I've seen

(13:22):
you give a live presentation ata conference, i'm always shocked
to be reminded that you doexperience stage fright.
And I think maybe some of ourlisteners would be surprised to
hear that as well, Because whenyou present, you always sound

(13:42):
very confident and appearrelaxed.
I'm curious is there somethingthat you do?
do you have a routine?
What do you go through and whatdo you experience with some of
the stage fright that allows youto get over it and keep going
and then crush it once you're atthe podium.

Vanessa Grant (14:05):
Well, you know, for me part of that is
connecting with the people thatI do.
My session for London's callingwas at 4.25 pm, so I literally
had the whole day to freak outand I absolutely freaked out the
whole day.
So I spent a lot of the time inkind of like more of the chill
out zones.
My friend Paula V Argyll-Wilwas there and like she just kind

(14:26):
of like let me lean on hershoulder and kind of do some
deep breaths for a bit.
Whenever I saw Tom Bassett, hegave me a big hug and said you
can do it, you're a badass BAAnd once you start making the
connections with friends likeMelissa Shepard does not need my
session.
Melissa Shepard was front row inmy session and she was there
for me And it's so much easierto speak to a crowd and there

(14:50):
were over 100 people in mysession.
But it was so much easier tospeak to the crowd when there
were familiar faces, friendlyfaces in the crowd that you know
, even just people that willlaugh at my jokes, you know, and
so that really helps a lot.
But I mean, as far as the, do Ihave any routines Like I don't
know?
I pretty much freaked out andthen I got there and it went

(15:13):
okay.
I would say part of it is also,you know, i picked a topic that
I could talk about in my sleep,so even if the slides didn't
magically appear, i could havestill gone on for 25 minutes or
longer about user stories,because I live and breathe user
stories.
You know I'm obsessed with them.
So that also helps is picking atopic that you feel confident

(15:34):
in, that you have a point ofview on.

Mark (15:38):
Can I?

Josh Matthews (15:39):
butt in on this one, of course And, by the way,
this is Mark Baker.
Mark, if you had a chance tolisten to our most recent
podcast, was our guest and he'sstill here on the program today,
and so we're going to take livequestions from Mark.
We already have two lined up,so go for it, mark.

Mark (15:56):
So, this so I like talked about a live podcast.
You know I did have musiccareer.
It was bootstrapped, it wasn'tglamorous but I performed a lot,
including in a few crisissituations.
One of the things my band didis we sang the national anthem
in four part acapella harmonybefore an Oakland A's game.
That was 15,000 people and15,000 people in the middle of

(16:19):
the infield with the PA slappingback.
It was impossible to hear, andI tell you what.
Nothing quickens the pulse andempties the stomach like singing
in front of 15,000 people.
But I can tell you this theadvice I would give you about
public speaking, a performing ofany kind.
Number one practice, practice,practice, practice, practice in

(16:43):
front of the mirror, practice infront of people that are safe,
that you feel you know that youcan trust to see you at your
worst and do it, give it yourall in that practice.
When you're nervous you'regoing to go back, you're going
to be able to fall back on allthat practice that you've done
And it's going to come out a lotbetter than if you haven't

(17:06):
practiced enough and you're justgoing to be on a mush now.
Number two understand that theexperience of the audience and
the experience of the presenteror the performer are separate.
You can be up on stage thinkingthat you are absolute disaster,
nervous as hell, stumbling overyour words.

(17:27):
And you get off stage andpeople are like wow, it was so
great, you totally inspired me.
Likewise, you can think you'renailing it and just people are
stone faced.
They're not connecting with you.
So you've got to understandwhat's going on for you on stage
.
It's just for you.
So if you can just be in themoment and maximize yourself and
enjoy yourself, you're going tobe giving your best chance to

(17:49):
succeed.
So those are my two bits ofadvice.
And I get number three try toenjoy it.
And this is for somebody who isworried about speaking or
worried about presenting orperforming.
It sounds crazy, but doeverything you can to enjoy the
experience, whatever that'sgoing to be.
But honestly, once you're upthere, going it's for you, and

(18:13):
if you can enjoy yourself, man,that makes the biggest
difference in the world.

Josh Matthews (18:19):
Man, it so does, And the audience will vibe off
of that And I think Vanessa doesenjoy it.
Once you're up there, vanessa,i mean you have fun, you crack
some jokes, you get some laughs,and boy, there's nothing like a
couple well-timed jokes, eitheron purpose or by accident, to

(18:39):
bring a little chuckle to theaudience can really relieve a
lot of our brain and energy.
It really does so much.

Vanessa Grant (18:47):
So I will say there was a part when I was
talking about user stories, howimportant it was to keep user
stories small, And so I keptdoing this kind of like small
hand signal with my left handAnd just then the event
photographer showed up and Istopped my session mid-sense and
said don't you dare take apicture while I'm holding up my
hand like this.

(19:07):
And the whole room startedcracking up and it kind of
turned into a weird inside jokefor all the folks that ended up
tweeting about the session.
Don't take Vanessa's picturewhen she's, because it looked
like I was kind of gesturingthat something was small, But if
you weren't at the session youwouldn't know what it was.

Josh Matthews (19:26):
I think we got it.
We're all adults here.
That's a good point.
I used to play in a band too,mark.
We didn't tour around thecountry for a year, but we just
do some local shows in PortlandAnd it was our largest concert,
which was maybe 200 people,right.
So not a big show, but big forme.
And it was my first time, ormaybe my second show ever, as a

(19:47):
drummer.
I was kind of new to drummingAnd I got off the stage.
I had bonked at least threetimes.
I messed up the beats ondifferent songs.
I was embarrassed.
I was trying to find my grooveafter that and really stressing,
and the show was done and thisyoung man came up to me and was
like, wow, that was amazing, andhow did you do that beat?

(20:12):
And how did you do that?
And it was just like part of mewanted to be like inside my
head.
I was thinking, well, he's notsmart because clearly I suck,
right.
It's like that old GrouchoMarks.
You wouldn't want to belong toa club that would have you as a
member, and but the reality isis no, i must have nailed some

(20:34):
parts enough for someone toenjoy it.
And did I enjoy it as much onstage as I could have Definitely
not less than learned.
So great advice, vanessa.
We've got some good questions,i think, in the chat, but
possibly others Actually.

Announcer (20:50):
I have a couple specific ones as well, just a
moment, jason.

Josh Matthews (20:54):
let me wrap up here.
Okay, i want to make sure thateverybody, whether they've got a
live question, go ahead andjump up on the stage.
Go ahead and raise your handwhen you're ready to get called
on.
We'll grab you for the question.
But Vanessa is generally incharge of going ahead and
reading these questions.
So if you don't want to speakopenly, you can always just drop

(21:15):
it in the chat or send a DM toVanessa and we'll get that
answered.
So, thank you.
Oh, look, someone raised theirhand.
How polite I was in Jason.
It was Fred, but we'll takeJason first.
So, thank you, fred.
We will get to you in just amoment.
Go ahead, jason.

Speaker 4 (21:29):
Well, it was coming right off of the previous topic
we were just talking about And Ihave been holding back.
Interrupting is one of myvillains of listening.
So one thing I want to mention,actually from a while back, is
when, mark, you were talkingabout your journey, about going
on the road.
Oh, and I think Mark Dostoevskyjust missed this, but there he

(21:53):
is.
Wait, yes, okay, cool.
So there you go, mark's goingon the road.
So, as I wanted to mention agreat book that I just recently
read, that, vanessa, i thinkyou'll like being a
Foodfighter's fan, and Josh, youshould like to being a drummer
The autobiography of Dave Grohl.
So he just wrote that over 2020.
And I suggest, if you listen topodcasts, check out audiobooks

(22:15):
and you can get them from freefrom your library.
They're free technically, butyou already paid for them with
your tax dollars.
So there you go.
Good little threshold to get it, and I recommend that.
It was really cool And we likefor the Josh, vanessa, mark and
Jesse, and I think you guys willlike it.
That's the first thing I wantedto say.
I've been holding that one fora while.

Josh Matthews (22:34):
Thanks, Jason.
Thank you, Jason.
That's a great recommendation.

Speaker 4 (22:38):
The second thing I want to say is about Mark, about
your advice about practice.
Practice, practice, yes, 100%,and also think about all the
situations that can go wrong andpractice for that.
So Michael Phelps anotherfamous person that I don't know
His coach had him practice onetime by smashing his, taking his
goggles and throwing them onthe floor to smash him, so that

(22:59):
Michael Phelps would have topractice with smashed goggles.
And sure enough, that'sactually what happened.
When he wound up winning thegold medal first time.
His goggles broke, but he stillknew the count of how many
whatever you call it, not steps,strokes to get to the side.

Josh Matthews (23:18):
Very cool.
How many strokes does it taketo get to the other side?
Yeah, that's great Good advice.
I love it.
I love it, man.
Yeah, you know, this idea thatwe practice and practice under
duress is critical, right?
So you know the Seahawks whenpeople are going to go play the
Seahawks, which has anincredibly loud stadium and by

(23:38):
people I mean NFL teams, theymight practice with headphones
on that are blasting stadiumnoise They have to be able to
figure out how to get you know,shout the count for the down or
call plays.
The quarterback has to callplays over a tremendous amount

(24:01):
of noise And, by the way, it isearth shattering.
I sat in that stadium.
It's deafening, and so you haveto practice under duress.
So first we practice underoptimal conditions, then we
practice under duress, and whenwe do both of those things, then
we're really set up for successand really set up for anything.
So good points, jason.

(24:21):
Thank you, fred.
You had your hand up.
Why don't you go ahead andintroduce yourself and then ask
away, please?

Fred Cadena (24:28):
Hey Josh, Hey Vanessa, Thanks for putting this
on.
I'm a long time first time.
I usually listen in the podcastformat, but you guys dangle my
good friend Mark in front of meand I just have to listen in
live.

Mark (24:43):
So, fred, good to hear from you.
It's now everyone has to listento us say hi.
But, fred, so good to hear fromyou.
I didn't know you guys werebuddies, that's so cool.

Fred Cadena (24:54):
Yeah, mark.
Mark officially had to workwith me for a couple of years
when we were both at FederalLine together, so he had he was
the project whisperer, i wouldmess them up and then he would
come in and save them.

Mark (25:07):
So I don't remember.
I do remember eating quite afew steaks and drinking by our
share of bourbon together.

Fred Cadena (25:14):
So it must have been a good one.
We certainly did I just I wantto ask a quick question.
I apologize, it's not going tobe something cool like playing
in a band, but I wanted to ask aquestion I get asked a lot and
I'm sure, Mark, you've got anopinion being in the mother's
ship and actually, Josh, I'msure you guys have your
perspective on this as well.

(25:35):
I frequently get asked you know, Salesforce is big right.
There's core, there's industryclouds, there's commerce,
there's CPQ, there's MuleSoft.
I think marketing cloud thesedays has like 50 different
modules, all slightly differenttechnology.
So, from a demand perspective,if someone's starting out in the

(25:58):
ecosystem, where would youfocus?
So not like pick what you'repassionate about, But if you're
thinking about maximizing demandfor your skills, maximizing
potential comp, what would youspecialize in?

Mark (26:12):
Personally, i'd start with core.
Core is always going to be ornot always going to be, but core
is the biggest part of theportfolio And the core skills
are going to be applicableacross your industry.
Clouds, in terms of industry, idon't know Fins, maybe HLS, i

(26:34):
don't know.
I'm not sure on that, i have avery non-center view on industry
, which is that it's not asimportant as everyone says.
It is.
Some of it's very important,but only to a point.
So, personally, if it was me,i'd start now.
Start with core Salesforce.

Vanessa Grant (26:53):
I actually totally agree with that,
Everything you said.
even with the industry.

Mark (26:57):
Right, we've got a club here.
We'll start our own club.

Josh Matthews (27:02):
I agree too.
I'll tell you something.
I mean, i think it's soimportant to love what you do
Now.
You don't have to love it todeath And you might say
something and only sort of likeit or be in like with it.
You don't have to love it yetYou do something long enough and
you gain enough competency init.
You'll love it because you'llbe proud of yourself that you

(27:22):
can accomplish so many things inswiftly and that you can
influence other people and helpsupport their careers and
swiftly there as well.
But the kind of people that youwant to hang out with that
matters.
That matters in work.
It matters in your career.
So if you like hanging out withengineers, right, right, and you

(27:45):
like to do engineering well,who cares if it's FinServe or
HLS or CPQ, like who cares Right?
And you're going to besurrounded by people who are
relatively like-minded thatyou're going to have common
ground with, just like Mark andFred have common ground with one
another, right, whether it'sbourbon cigars or steaks or a

(28:05):
sales force.
So being with the people thatmake you feel good, being with
the people that understand you,that's critical And they're not
all the same guys like.
It's not right.
The manufacturing verticalattracts different people than
FinServe, which attractsdifferent people than HLS, and

(28:28):
on and on and on.
So if you can go with the thingthat you at least like or you
know doesn't suck first, then Ithink you're making a good move.
That said, yeah, i'm inagreement with all of you,
starting with court.
Okay, awkward silence.
Time for a new question.

Speaker 4 (28:51):
I'll give a plug for a website that I built that you
can find on the Xman exchange.
Thank you, josh, for posting itthere.
So I built a website to helpexplain the sales force
ecosystem to people.
It's called a sales forcecareer navigator.
That because I've tried toexplain, like, what sales force
is and where you can find salesforce, and then all the
different jobs, such as businessanalysts and recruiters and

(29:15):
services.
So, understanding all thedifferent people, all the
different places you could findsales force in those industries
that you could be able to putthat cloud into context.
So maybe you have experienceworking in a call center, maybe
you have experience working in abus buy or a blockbuster.
So, wherever you have theexperience, imagine, like, if

(29:37):
you use sales force or if not,like how sales force could be
used, just be able to put itinto context.

Josh Matthews (29:44):
Thanks for sharing that, Jason.
That's awesome.
Okay, let's dive into someadditional questions.
I know that Ty had written acouple of questions.
Vanessa, do you have access tothose?

Vanessa Grant (29:55):
I do.
I did invite Ty up to speak.
I don't know if he's done.
So actually, while we'rewaiting to see if Ty responds, i
do have a couple otherquestions.

Josh Matthews (30:06):
Go for it.

Vanessa Grant (30:08):
So one is can you talk about the sales force
labor market right now, becauseit seems very slow.
I'm very curious what it lookslike out there, especially for
freelancing but even just jobsin general.

Mark (30:19):
That's probably one for Josh.
If you're talking about themarket, yeah.

Josh Matthews (30:23):
I'm happy to talk about this.
So, yeah, it's not slow, it'sjust slower.
So we've got to remembereverything's in context, guys.
We just had this post-COVIDexperience of pent up demand.
Think of all those companiesthat wanted to get things done
and didn't, because they didn'tknow what was going on.

(30:44):
They didn't know if they weregoing to get sick or they didn't
know if they were going to goto the hospital.
There are clients all hungereddown in a cave and maybe they
did too And after thatexperience, when these companies
started to poke their head out,realize that hey, you know what
, the majority of us are goingto be alive and the economy is
actually quite strong.
And it was at that time.
Well, what happened then?

(31:05):
Well, now we've got all thispent up demand because for three
months, six months, nine months, the work that everybody had
planned to do got put on holdAnd after that came about 18
months or so of massive, crazyhigh-prane staffing
implementations.
People couldn't get enoughpeople.
It was practically impossibleto find anyone of competence to

(31:27):
do implementations, to doarchitecture or even development
.
And now we're in a much morebalanced ecosystem from a
supply-demand standpoint.
In regards to what's out thereNow, there are not as many jobs
being advertised, and I wouldsay that there are, in general,

(31:49):
fewer jobs than a purelybalanced market.
But what there is is one, a lotof hope.
We're getting so many mixedsignals from the economy.
Right now It's like it's a bearmarket, and then the stock
spike in the Dow.
It's all time high.
Oh, targets going down and BudLight's going down for crazy-ass

(32:14):
reasons, and everybody startsto sell their shares of this,
that and the other thing, andthen that dips the Dow down
again, and then companies gothis is weird.
And then you've got stuff goingon with the Ukraine.
Everything's just always kindof iffy.
Everyone in this administrationand by that I mean the White
House administration is sayinglook, we're not in a recession,

(32:37):
but we're about to hit one.
And the only thing that ispreventing them from having
declared a recession are theunemployment numbers.
We're hovering right around3.6%, and I can tell you that's
about where we were in 2008,before the global financial
crisis.
So we're actually in a prettynormal kind of market.
And I can tell you this toothat professional services in

(33:00):
the last year has grown and it'sexpected to grow.
But that doesn't mean thatpeople are hiring willy-nilly.
They are hiring, but whatthey're doing is they're hiring
slower And there are fewerpeople that are like remember
that whole crazy musical chairsthing that happened?
What did they call it?
The Great Resignation?
It was a stupid thing to say,because the majority of those

(33:22):
people just went and gotdifferent jobs.
So it was really the greatmusical chairs thing that
happened.
Well, they all made jumps, theygot their 10%, 15%, 20% pay
increase.
They got a slightly nicer boss,they got slightly better hours
than then.
A year, year and a half later,they're still there.
So a lot of that demand, thatpent up demand, has been

(33:43):
exercised And people went crazy,just like a housing market.
Like you buy a house, it's$500,000.
And then all of a sudden, noone's selling their houses.
So now you can charge $750,000for what's a $500,000 house?
It's not a $750,000 houseunless the market makes it.
So we're in this weird time Now.

(34:04):
I don't have a crystal ball.
I've never been good at it.
I predicted that Britney Spears, christina Aguilera, lady Gaga
and InSync would never make itwhen they all had their first TV
debut.
So I am not the guy to predictthe future, but I have seen this
enough times to know that thisis temporary.

(34:24):
We've been in this bear market.
The average bear market is twoto five months.
If there is a recession, theaverage recession might be
anywhere from a quarter to ayear and a half, sometimes two
years in the worst situationsBut that doesn't mean that the
economy shuts down.
We're just dealing with so manyweird things in the economy.
So understand yes, there arefewer jobs being posted, but

(34:48):
there are also fewer peoplelooking for jobs, and so what we
have to do to adapt to thiskind of ecosystem is plain and
simple You have to be betterthan everybody else.
Now, if you don't think that youcan be better than everybody
else, that's okay.
You just have to be better thanthe other people applying for

(35:08):
the job.
Or you have to be better ifmaybe you don't have the best
resume in the work history.
Find a way to get theconversation, get the interview.
Maybe you're great at verbalcommunication, so have a killer
interview.
And to Mark Baker's point howdo you do that, vanessa, you
know the answer.
How do you have a perfectinterview?
You practice people.

(35:30):
You practice like crazy, justuntil you can mumble it lying in
bed in your sleep.
Right?
Have the answers ready for thecommon ones right, get
comfortable, because nothingkills an interview like nerves
and lack of preparation.
And I'll tell you this, andeverybody knows this whether

(35:51):
you're watching a musician geton stage because they're
unprepared and they didn'tpractice their piece, or they
drink too many beers becausethey were so nervous and
couldn't relax, they come up andthey screw it up right.
Everybody can tell when someonehas put the time in and when
they haven't.
I was listening to this audiobook by a guy named and I'm
going to botch this I think hisname is Arthur Samuel Joseph And

(36:14):
he is one of the foremosttrainers, vocal trainers for
people who give speeches.
So half of the you know NFLHall of Fame speeches those guys
were coached by him.
I'm listening to this book andI think it's like finding your
voice or vocal leadership.
I can't remember what it is.
It's a fantastic book And Caseyand I got to see him speak at a

(36:35):
Tony Robbins leadershipconference that we attended
recently And you know, thereality is it's this idea of
like finding your voice,practicing, practicing,
practicing.
But he gave a great example.
This wasn't a CEO, but this wasa senior person in a Fortune
500 company And he went in thereto help support this guy And

(36:59):
the way this guy would do hisspeeches is he'd have a few
slides and he wouldn't prep.
He was so good, so competent onthe fly that he never prepped
Okay.
So he'd go up there, he'd do,he'd look at the slides and then
he'd riff for half an hour andhe'd do, okay.
Well, this guy, joseph Arthur,joseph, samuel, had him actually

(37:21):
write out his introductionMaybe it's a two minute
introduction, okay And thenpractice it and annotated it And
then had him do it.
He recorded both.
So, to Mark's point, right, getyourself on video, get yourself
on audio.
Right, get yourself in front oflive people.
So this guy, who didn't want towork with a coach who was

(37:45):
arrogant, saw the difference inhis opening statements, his
opening presentation, and wasfloored because he actually had
taken the time to practice.
And even though this guy's gotit, he can walk into any room
and he can own that room and hecan get people all jazzed about
whatever the thing is that he'sgot going.
But the reality is is he wasfull of tropes, he was full of

(38:08):
dumb stories, He was full of somany issues that even though he
was good, he wasn't great.
And so if you want to be great,he's got to practice.
Okay, so I don't know how hewent from the economy and job
market to global coaching, butwe got there.
So there you go.

Mark (38:26):
You said something, josh, that I want to offer this.
It's about interviewing.
I haven't interviewed.
It's been a while.
I've been in this role for acouple of years now and whatnot.
But what you said aboutpracticing interviews, i do that
.
Now.
I don't practice interviews,but I know my work history, i

(38:50):
know my roles, i know the thingsthat I've accomplished in those
roles, the stories I want totell them, those roles, down to
the level of what is it that Iwant to be able to say for each
one of those things.
And it's written out.
and I should have practicedthose things so that when
somebody asks me about it, i'mnot stumbling.

(39:13):
I'm not stumbling.
You know you've got an hourwith this for this interview.
They're going to ask you a lotof questions.
You want to get your answer out, you want to get the perfect
thing out or the best thing out,and a little time is possible
And you don't want to be hittingyourself in the head when
you're done.
Oh, why did I say that?
I should have said this.
So practice is 100% forinterviews.

(39:37):
I do it and everyone elseshould do it.

Josh Matthews (39:40):
Love it, baby.
That's how we do it.
Shall we get Ty up here?
Ty's been.
This is Tyler Zeke.
Ty's a great guy.
Welcome to the show, ty.
You've got some good questions.

Ty (39:52):
Hey, Josh and Vanessa, thanks for hosting and inviting
Mark to share his experience.
So, Mark, I've been workingremote since before COVID and is
there any advantage to tryingto position yourself as a
Salesforce professional to likebe on site or like do any type

(40:13):
of traveling consulting Is thateven a thing?

Mark (40:19):
You know it wasn't a thing for COVID.
Obviously It was absolutely nota thing for COVID.
I think it's trying to make acomeback.
I don't know if it's going tomake a comeback.
I don't know how much of acomeback it's going to make.
It feels like it's kind ofbeing forced.
I don't know what the future isgoing to hold.

(40:41):
So it's not like it waspre-COVID.
But I don't think that there'sa disadvantage in saying and I
can be on site or I can workremote, i'm comfortable with
both.
You know, and be honest,because you wouldn't ever want
to put yourself in a situationwhere the requirements are not

(41:02):
what you're comfortable with.
But if you're comfortable withboth, then I would say that and
you're certainly not puttingyourself in a disadvantage.

Josh Matthews (41:11):
I'd like to add to that too, mark.
I think that you're going tofind you become a more, slightly
more attractive candidate withthe big four if you're willing
to travel, or any largeconsulting firm for that matter.
Now, that's not a dyed in thewool like definitely 100% all
the time, and anybody who'swilling to travel is going to go
get a job at Deloitte.
But there tends to be a littlebit more of that Slalom.

(41:37):
They work locally, so it's notsuch a big thing, but we're
looking at the central centersof the world, and so even
cognizant doesn't do muchtraveling anymore, or the
Deloitte's of the world.
Then it can definitely be areal advantage.
And then the other thing is andI can't recall exactly where
you live, tyler, where do youlive?

Ty (41:56):
I'm in Southern California Okay.

Josh Matthews (41:59):
Yeah, so you know, you got a lot of industry
there, which is great too.
So, yeah, it's good stuff.

Mark (42:05):
I can tell you.
I'm sorry, let me just I'll saythis for 10 seconds.
I can tell you what I'm seeingin a lot of the big programs
that we're running now is ourcustomers are asking different.
So in years past, when ameeting would have been on site
and it wouldn't have been aquestion and would have had 20

(42:27):
people fly into a certainlocation to have a certain
meeting in mid-program, you knowit would have cost $80,000 or
$100,000 to the program.
but that's what we're doing.
We're having these peopleflying.
Customers are saying nope,let's not fly.
It's happening.
So it's a little different.

(42:47):
The demand for travel isdifferent, it's changing And,
like I said, i don't know whatit's going to be in three years
from now, but it's a littledifferent than it has been.

Josh Matthews (42:56):
It's also gotten more expensive, mark, right,
like I mean, for real, it'sgotten more expensive.
We used to be able to fly fromPortland to Florida for, you
know, 350 to 400 bucks, and nowit's a thousand bucks.
Especially, it depends on theweek, right, and so when, since
fewer people are flying now forbusiness, guess what that does
to the cost of the seats?

(43:16):
It goes up, right, it'sapplying demand.
So that's how it goes.
Okay, we got three raised hands.
I'm just going to pass thebaton.
Here you go, vanessa.
You run it.
You pick on someone, even ifit's yourself, i'll pick on
myself.
Just be kind to yourself.
I'll pick on myself, just bekind to yourself.

Vanessa Grant (43:30):
I'll pick on myself first.
So I think a lot of it dependsalso on if you're doing
consulting.
It's going to be your clientsas well.
I have some clients that wantto save the money and are happy
to do everything remotely, andthen I have some bigger clients
where money is not the optionAnd, for whatever reason, their
culture is just in such a waythat they want people on site.
So I have not traveled so muchfor a client as I have in the

(43:53):
last, i would say, five monthswhere they want us on site a
week out of every month.
At this point, and in generalin the organizations that I've
worked with, they're starting toimplement the okay, let's be on
site two days out of the week.
If they're internal, if they'reconsulting, especially on the

(44:13):
sales side, they find thatthey're closing sales faster and
more efficiently when they'reon site.
If they get that in person, hey, we have some local people to
you, so kind of aspect to it.
So from everything I have seen,it's certainly a benefit if you
have some willingness to traveland are even possibly even

(44:36):
enthusiastic about it.

Josh Matthews (44:39):
And I'll just share.
in addition to that, we do havea podcast.
We had a wonderful guest.
He's the author of Rise of theRemote Worker in America.
Okay, so if you go back aboutfive podcasts ago, he was one of
our very first guests that wehad.
check out that podcast anddefinitely check out that book.
You can just Google Rise of theRemote Worker in America on

(45:02):
Amazon Prime.
It should be released now andyou'll get a lot of details
there.
Okay, i'm out.
Keep going Cool.

Vanessa Grant (45:08):
Hey Ty, did you want to follow up something?

Ty (45:10):
real quick, yeah.
So, mark, you talked about howthere's some people who want to
work 60 plus hours a week.
I want to be one of thosepeople.
I currently am looking for anew job to start in July.
What are the work environmentslike where someone can work 60
hours and they're productive 60hours?

(45:31):
Because when I've worked insome roles, i'm sometimes
twiddling my thumbs, waiting forthe client or there's a lot of
unknowns.
I function as a developer and asolution architect.
Maybe the best question is howdo we avoid the bottleneck so we
can work those hours if we wantto, those 60 plus?

Josh Matthews (45:53):
hours For clarity?
do you mean availableAbsolutely?

Mark (45:58):
Okay, that's a good question.
There absolutely are people whowant to work that much.
I've absolutely run into themFrequently.
it's often developers who wantto do that.
I can tell you as a manager, asa portfolio leader, a portfolio

(46:21):
owner, i am very cautious withengaging developers who are
working more than 40 hours aweek on purpose because, first
of all, when demand increases,when demand spikes, then I need
to throw more onto them than wehave planned.

(46:41):
then it's possible There's noheadroom.
That can be a problem.
Also, i have found that whenpeople are working that much,
things fall through the cracks,things don't get answered,
something is harder than theythought it would be.
then it totally destabilizesthe whole system.
As a portfolio owner, i'mextremely skeptical of people

(47:05):
who are trying to structure morethan 40 hours a week in work.
That said, the point is here ishow to give you advice on how
to accomplish it.
I think it's going to be as acontractor.
I'm not exactly sure how youwould go about doing it, but you
would want to put yourself intoa position where you are
finding the work yourself.

(47:26):
There are communities where Iknow there are some consulting
organizations still I can'tremember the name but they throw
a lot of work out like tickets,crowdsourced tickets and things
like that.

Josh Matthews (47:40):
You can go to 10kviewcom.
We had the chief people officer, kristin Langua, joined us just
a couple weeks ago, about threeor four weeks ago.
10K advisors they'll do this.
You need an LSD.
If you don't go get one,they're like 200 bucks.
You go get an LSD and then youcan work with an organization

(48:02):
like 10Kview.
They're not going tonecessarily keep you busy 60
hours a week, but you could dothat for moonlighting.
The number one way to guaranteeyou're going to put in 60 hours
of work or more per week is tostart your own business.
That's the shortcut.
There you go.

Mark (48:23):
That's a good answer.
I will say just consider itfrom the point of view of the
business that's hiring you.
If you're going to do this, youneed to be planning your time
and planning demand so that ifand when demand some one part of

(48:44):
your portfolio spikes whereyou're getting 60 hours, you're
going to be able to accommodate,because if not, you're going to
be like that service businesswho suddenly can't service the
business that they're sellingPain and panic.
You're going to hurt your brand,you're going to hurt your
long-term prospects.
It's hard to manage, but Iguess you could do it if you're

(49:05):
really interested.

Fred Cadena (49:07):
My perspective, and I had in my hand that I had a
comment on the previous thingtoo, and if you want me to shut
up, Josh, I know this is not myforum, but 60 hours is a little
hour.

Josh Matthews (49:15):
Go for it.
Yeah, you're at the top of yourbody.
Keep going.
By the way, this is Fred Cadena.

Fred Cadena (49:19):
Go for it, Fred 60 hours of billable time a week
outside of like an emergency isunsustainable.
There is so much other work youneed to do that is not billable
, especially if you're in anorganization, if you're a
contractor, if you've got threeor four contracts or 20 hours a
week, that's one thing.

(49:39):
But if you're working at aconsulting firm, you cannot
sustain 60 hours of billabletime a week full stop.
It's not possible.
I wanted to provide a differentperspective on the prior
questions about travel.
I don't know that it's anadvantage in getting hired, but
it definitely provides anadvantage in advancing in your
career, especially again, atlarge organizations.

(50:04):
The way to get ahead is to growthe business.
It doesn't mean you have to bea salesperson.
It doesn't mean you have to bean AE full time.
But farming accounts, goinginto an organization, learning
about new opportunities to doother work, different work that
isn't signed, is the fastest wayto get ahead, especially as you
get more senior in your career.
The easiest way to do that isto be on site.

(50:26):
If you have that flexibility,like Vanessa said, i would be
enthusiastic To Mark's pointfrom before.
That's probably one of thereasons why we had so much stake
in bourbon.
Is you're going to tend to beone of those enthusiastic people
.
Anytime I can get in front of aclient and have a conversation
about their business outcomes,how we can move the needle for
them, i'm taking thatopportunity 100% of the time.

Josh Matthews (50:49):
Hashtag expense account 100%.
Vanessa.
do we have more questions forthis episode?
We have one last one.
Okay, guys, Then we're going towrap it up and say goodbye
until our next session.
I'm excited to tell you aboutthat in just a moment.
Let's go for it.

Vanessa Grant (51:09):
Okay, what you say is a realistic timeline for
someone just starting theirSalesforce career with no tech
background, but they have acertification already.
I actually have something onthis, but I would also love to
throw it out to the folks thatwe have.

Mark (51:26):
I would love for you to start us off, because that's a
tough question.

Vanessa Grant (51:32):
I'm in the Salesforce for Everyone Facebook
group which is run by BradleyRice who runs the talent stacker
program.
He actually posts his statsevery month.
Anybody can join the Salesforcefor Everyone group.
It's just a Facebook groupwhere we talk Salesforce job
stuff but also just people askfor help on their flows.

(51:54):
It's a nice resource.
if anybody's more Facebookdriven We all know it's more my
generation I thought it wasinteresting.
They actually do have a statthat they post every month and I
would say folks that tend to gointo that program tend to be
pretty new to Salesforce and notnecessarily have tech

(52:17):
backgrounds.
I grabbed the last two monthsApril the certification to job
landed average number of dayswas 83, and May certification to
job landed average number ofdays is 77.
You also have to consider thatthose are people that are
actually in a program that isteaching them how to network and

(52:38):
volunteer and update theirresumes and things like that.
I would say adjust thosenumbers based on how much you're
actually putting into yournetworking and LinkedIn efforts.
but I thought that those wereinteresting stats that I could
probably share for thatparticular question.

Mark (53:01):
That's a lot quicker than I would have thought.
It's 83 days.
Is that what you said?

Vanessa Grant (53:06):
Yeah, it was 83 days for the April folks that
got jobs through Talent Stackerand 77 in May, but again, those
are people that are goingthrough a program that is
helping people with theirresumes and stuff.
I imagine it would be quite abit larger.
I'm not sure what thestatistics would be, but my
guess is, without some sort ofguidance as far as how to,

(53:29):
that's always one of thechallenges with Salesforce is
there's so many resources thatthere's a lot of noise as far as
finding the resources that youneed in order to get the jobs
that you want and understandinghow to find the right people and
find the right groups and findthe right websites, even just
finding focus on force, which issuch a huge factor in a lot of

(53:51):
folks first and secondcertifications.
I would probably add anothertwo months to that if you're not
going through, if you haven'tfound the right resource early
enough.

Josh Matthews (54:05):
Yeah, that's right, guys.
A quick plug one more time forthis episode.
Check out the expand exchange.
It's expandexchangecom Thatwill connect you with a variety
of Slack groups organizationslike Focus on Force,
organizations like LadiesBArchitects.
That was created by GemmaVanessa's friend.

(54:25):
We've got Jason's on there.
We've got a ton of greatresources there and it's for
free.
There's no charge.
Just go check it out and getthe training and the connection
and the network that you need.
Super cool.

Mark (54:39):
I was going to say.
I've done a lot of mentoringwith a program called Veterati
which is focused on helpingveterans who are transitioning
out of the military and intotech or other careers.
My focus was veterans whowanted to transition to tech.
I can tell you some of themstruggled.

(55:03):
It took a while for them to getthat first job certainly more
than 83 days.
Going over that first hump ofthat first job in tech can be
challenging.
As a manager hiring people, ioften it's rare that I hire
somebody into a first role.

(55:24):
That hasn't been what I'vehired people for.
It can be challenging if youdon't have that experience to
show off, to get in the door,even get people's attention.
What I always tell people is,first of all, you have to be
ready to be in it for the longhaul.
You got to give it energy, yougot to keep putting yourself out

(55:46):
there.
You cannot give up.

Josh Matthews (55:49):
Secondly, Just to underline the cannot give up
part.
Cannot give up.
This is whether you're tryingto solve a math problem or get a
job.
It's all the same.
Do not give up.
We've had story after storyafter story back in our
clubhouse days, all the way intoour Twitter days here and now

(56:10):
into our podcast base of peoplewho spent eight, nine, 10 months
Finally got their first job.
It paid them half what theyfelt that they were worth.
They stuck with it for sixmonths or a year.
Now they're making way moremoney than they ever could have
imagined and they're fulfilledand really enjoying their sales
force career.
Stick with it.

Mark (56:31):
This is the second tip.

Josh Matthews (56:33):
Point point two Don't.

Mark (56:36):
It's not all or nothing.
Connect.
Connect gave what I was goingto say away.
You know there's otheropportunities like volunteering,
even just building projects.
You need to be able to showwhat you can do, what you're
willing to do.
Volunteering is a great way todo it, just building portfolios.

(56:59):
I was working with a kid.
He was a young kid, he was 23,24, something like that And he
graduated from a technicalcollege and was working as a
personal trainer and was tryingto get into tech, and I said,
and he was trying to get intodevelopment And he was taking,
he was in those programs wherewe're going to teach you Java in
30 days or whatever, and he wasnot having a lot of luck And I

(57:22):
said you need to just go, codestuff, code websites, code apps,
make a mobile app or somethingthat you can show people,
that'll show off your skills.
And again, you can't give up.
It could take you years to getto the place where you
ultimately want to be, but babysteps and just keep moving

(57:45):
forward, always forward you'llget there at some point.

Josh Matthews (57:49):
That's right And minimally like we were talking
about and I can't remember if itwas earlier in this show or in
the podcast that we recordedjust an hour ago even if you
don't get all the way there,you'll get really good at hiking
, you'll get really good ateverything that you're doing,
even if you're not all the waythere.
And, mark, what you shared aboutveterati is a perfect lead into

(58:09):
how we're going to close thisshow, which is an introduction
to our next episode which isgoing to be launched, the live
show, which is going to be twoweeks from today.
It's always on a Wednesday,it's every other Wednesday And
we have a special guest.
His name's Philip Anderson.
Now, Philip Anderson is aveteran and he's spent more than
a decade in the Air Force andSpecial Ops And he's going to

(58:33):
share on July 5th.
So it's a special militaryepisode that we're going to have
.
We're going to try and get asmany people from the Salesforce
ecosystem who came from amilitary background to be on the
panel, to be involved to answerthe questions.
And it's not just for veterans,it's not everyone should listen

(58:53):
to this.
Okay, so it's not just forveterans.
It's also about militaryspouses, right?
Because they can experienceunique hardships that someone
who's married to someone whoworks at Deloitte has gone five
days a week We'll neverexperience, right?
So we absolutely are lookingforward to that.
Mark, you've been a wonderfulguest to have on this podcast.

(59:17):
We appreciate you so much.
Thank you also to all of ourspeakers, everyone who was brave
enough to raise their hand,including Pilar Zika, including
Fred Kedena, including JasonZeichowitz, of course, my
wonderful co-host, vanessa Grant.
Thank you for sharing yourexperiences in London and in

(59:37):
Belgium, and we are excited tobe here for you again in two
weeks.
Now, this live recording of thisprogram will come out two weeks
from today possibly earlier,but probably two weeks from
today And the program that werecorded in the first half of
this, that will be available asearly as next Wednesday.
So be sure to check that out.

(59:57):
And in the meantime, if you'veenjoyed this content, i wanted
to ask everybody, or share withyou, how you can help support
the program.
We never asked for a dollar, wenever asked for a dime, and
everybody on this program.
We mostly get together becausewe like each other and we just
like talking to each other.
We like to help other people,but we can help more people when

(01:00:20):
you subscribe, okay, so whenyou subscribe, when you like our
tweets, when you connect withus on LinkedIn and when you
leave reviews for the podcast onyour favorite platform of your
choice, it helps to promote thisshow and it gets the message
out.
And what do I mean by that.
What's the message?
Well, the message is theinformation that people need to

(01:00:43):
advance their careers.
That's what we're trying to dohere.
So, before you launch intodinner or jump into your car for
your commute home or whereveryou are, if you could do us a
favor, pull up the podcast onyour favorite platform, leave a
quick review And if you haven'tsubscribed yet, go ahead and
subscribe.
And the last little plug is ifyou're interested in a career in

(01:01:05):
Salesforce, or you're alreadyan experienced Salesforce
professional but you're lookingto make a change, or perhaps
you're listening and you need tohire someone from the top 10%
of talent in the Salesforceecosystem, by all means, please
check out my company.
It's Salesforce Staffing LLC,and you can find us at

(01:01:25):
thesalesforcerecretercom.
Okay, any last words, vanessa.

Speaker 4 (01:01:30):
No, I think you covered it.
That was awesome.
Thank you so much, Mark, Okayguys, hey guys, hey, thanks.

Josh Matthews (01:01:37):
Have a wonderful , wonderful week.
We look forward to connectingwith everybody here in just a
couple of short weeks.
And if you'd like to follow meon Twitter, it's at the Josh
force, or just Google or putJosh Matthews into Twitter.
Same thing for Vanessa Grant,which is our at our Vanessa
Grant, i believe.
Is that correct, vanessa?
Did I get that right?
That's correct.
Yes, you did Okay, and you canalso follow Mark Baker.

(01:01:58):
Mark has mark underscore Baker50 here on on Twitter.
Okay, thanks guys, have awonderful day.
Bye for now.