October 12, 2023 • 68 mins
Ever feel like you're stuck in your head, cycling through thoughts and worries over and over again? You're not alone. I recently had the pleasure of chatting with aerospace engineer Roger Mikhail, who illuminated his personal struggles with overthinking and how it permeated every facet of his life. Roger's analytical mind, honed in his engineering studies, proved to be a double-edged sword, often turning him into a victim of his own thoughts.
During our enlightening conversation, Roger shared invaluable insights into the primary triggers of overthinking and how a lack of patience, trust, and unresolved trauma fuel this vicious cycle. He also unveiled the strategies he employed to break free from this mental trap. The one that personally resonated with me was his emphasis on rebuilding self-trust, a crucial step towards quieting the noise within our minds and learning to have faith in the divine plan.
As we ventured further, Roger bravely unpacked the dangers lurking in the shadows of overthinking - from the stifling fear of perfectionism to the paralyzing dread of regret, guilt, and shame. He revealed how the relentless pursuit of material success could become a breeding ground for anxiety, a sentiment amplified by the unprecedented challenges of the global pandemic. His story about a life-altering book that helped him navigate his overthinking labyrinth was a poignant reminder that sometimes, the key to freeing ourselves from the shackles of our mind lies in the wisdom of others.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey everyone, welcome back to the Salt and Light
podcast.
Today it's episode number four.
Thank you all for tuning in forall the last three.
Here's more better content withRojim Khayel.
Rojim, I want to let youpresent yourself and also tell
us why did you pick today'sepisode.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Thank you, michael, for having me on the show.
My name is Rojim Khayel and I'man aerospace engineer.
I'm 28 years old.
The subject that I picked todayis the overthinking mind, and
the reason why I picked thissubject is because I myself, for
the longest time, wasstruggling with an overthinking
mind, and I know quite a lot ofpeople who also do so.
I wanted not only to be aneye-opener to others, but to
(00:43):
also remind myself of where Iwas and where I want to be.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
I feel like you went through a lot, but tell us, what
was the maybe first time thatyou realized you were an
overthinker or you werestruggling with overthinking?
Speaker 2 (01:00):
I can't remember the first time because I feel like
I've always been an overthinker,but I can remember like
situation that like where I slapacross the face.
I remember one day in myprevious previous job, my boss
called me and actually sent me amessage on Teams and told me
can you come into my officetomorrow?
And so I'm such an overthinker.
(01:22):
I started overthinking.
Why does he want to see me?
Is he not satisfied with mywork?
Am I getting fired?
And so overthinking got me upall night preparing my CV and
applying for jobs, because I wasso convinced that tomorrow my
boss is going to fire me.
And so the next day I go and Isit in front of him and he tells
(01:42):
me I'm very happy with yourwork and one of our colleagues
was resigning, so he was askingme if I wanted to take more
tasks of his tasks.
And so this was such a slapacross my face because I told
myself right now at that secondI'm such a prisoner of my own
thoughts I am overthinking.
(02:04):
I wasted 10, 15 hours of mylife preparing CVs and applying
for jobs when I did not need todo all this.
So this was sort of like an eyeopener of I need to change
something.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
And it's true that we all work because I went through
this also and tell us whatcould have you done differently
to just be prepared, becausebeing called by your boss is not
the easiest message because youknow that maybe you're in
trouble, you did something andhe's going to you know like he's
(02:38):
going to tell you about it andyou're going to be reprimanded
because of it, and there's a lotof moments that we're going to.
We worry about the bad, theworst or the bad moments,
because we don't want to gethurt.
How do you put those twotogether Not being ready but
also not worry as much as beingcrumpled, being stopped like
(03:04):
this.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
I mean, I understand your question but for an
overthinker, regardless of evenif you're doing so great and
everything is perfectly fine andyou're working hard, you're
going to overthink everythingand overthinker things.
That, for an average person, isvery silly.
An overthinker can overthink atext message.
(03:28):
Why did this person not put animaging inside the text message?
And they would stay for hourscontemplating is this person
upset?
Is this person mad?
So, regardless of what's goingon, an overthinker is going to
overthink, regardless of how heprepared he is, of how straight
he's working or walking or doing.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
I'm with you because when I was preparing and there's
stats that I wasn't reallysurprised because I know a lot
of overthinker.
I am also an overthinker and Ioverthink a lot of things, and
in the Harvard Medical School,dr Natalia says that 73% of 25
(04:11):
between 25 and 35 year old arechronically overthinking and 52%
of the people between 45 and 55are also overthinking.
So there's a lot ofoverthinking there.
So I know that it's somethingthat applies to a lot of people.
But there is a lot of causesthat brings us to overthinking,
(04:32):
to worry.
What were the ones that?
were your week like what werethe ones that causes you to
overthink, other than the?
You know I understand thatextreme moments with your bosses
or things that most of us, eventhough I'm not overthinking, is
going to push me to worry, butwhat, in your environment, was
(04:53):
the causes of your overthinking?
Speaker 2 (04:57):
I believe there are three reasons that I personally
have experienced or have noticedon myself, but other people
have different things Lack ofpatience I'm a person who is
absolutely not patient, and sothis lack of patient makes me
always want to know what'shappening, what's, what's about
to happen next, so it causes meto overthink a lot.
(05:19):
The second thing is lack oftrust.
Whether it's lack of trust inGod or lack of trust in others,
makes me unable you know, Ican't trust person A or person B
, so I'm going to overthinkwhat's going to happen or what
happened.
And the last thing is trauma.
(05:40):
Past bad experience can causeyou to overthink so much and
cause a lot of anxiety, and Ifeel like overthinking and
anxiety are like byproduct ofeach other 100% with you.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
and patience.
You're telling me patience,trust.
And what was the third one?
Trauma, trauma.
We've talked about traumaalready.
Tell me patience is somethingthat I did not think of, but I
see that as well.
the issue of overthinking,because you want to know the
(06:17):
answer now what is going onaround you in the present, even,
not even in the past, but withtrust, trauma and and and
patience.
What can we do?
What are the?
What did you do to go throughall of this and to go beyond of
that?
Like this is not a few days ofoverthinking, we're talking
(06:38):
about years.
And like I've been throughgoing through this for years and
sometimes I do fall inoverthinking and I just stress
myself out.
Did this person mean that inthe attacks or did this happen
because of this?
The time that took someone towrite a text is also possible.
What can we tell people to saylike, okay, it's going to be
(07:01):
okay, but without being so cornyof it's going to be okay.
What can we?
What can we do to help peopleto be like I'm giving you the
truth.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
From my experience, the answer to this is lies in
understanding what anoverthinker is.
So an overthinker is a personwho does not live in the moment,
constantly living either in thepast or in the future.
If you're living in the past,you're really living situations
that happened, and sometimesit's caused of trauma.
(07:35):
If you're living in the future,it's because you're worried or
anxious about what's going tohappen.
So you really need tounderstand where are you?
Are you thinking aboutsituations that happened in the
past or the future?
If we're thinking about thepast and something that happened
, you need to understand thatthe past is there for you to
(07:58):
learn from it, not to relive it.
Once you have learned from it,you move on.
You do not look back at it.
And if you're living in thefuture, you need to understand
that the future is there for youto hope for it, not to be
anxious about it.
And that's my intake from allthose years of overthink.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
I'll be the other side telling you, but there's so
much trauma in my past that Icannot just learn from it.
But I know it's repetitivebecause it did repeat itself.
History repeats itself.
So if my past is going tohappen again, I need to be
cautious and that's the wordthat we will always use as being
(08:45):
cautious of what is going tohappen from people.
For example, a bad relationship.
This happened, x, y, z happened.
There's cheating, there's this.
I'm going to come in and in thenext relationship I'll be aware
I'll be even overly cautiousand precautious.
(09:05):
I'm going to be precautiousabout what I'm going to say or
do with that person beforegetting closer and getting in
the wrong path no, not evenwrong path, just getting
vulnerable for her to hurt meagain.
And I'm going to repeat thisbecause I'm in a new
relationship and this is therecipe for overthinking.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
You don't need to be cautious, you have to learn from
it.
You have to learn that, forexample, if that person does
this and that and that this iscalled red flags, learn from
those red flags and if younotice them in the next
relationship, then you stop themright away.
But being cautious and thenoverthinking this person is
taking so much time to text.
(09:47):
Are they not serious?
Are they interested?
Are they not interested?
It makes you overthink and itmakes you stay up all night for
nothing.
The key to this iscommunication.
Communicate with the otherperson.
Hey, I know you're not really agood textor, but I kind of like
, if you like, respond quitefast.
(10:08):
I don't know.
You know communication helps alot with overthinkers.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Letting them know at least that you have that issue,
so that if there's any badmoments that you're not able to
handle overthinking, or you arein the middle of overthinking
and you're erratic, at leastthey're going to be there to
support because you're at 10% ofyour capacity and they're going
to come with the 90%.
(10:34):
But did you find that?
Were you able to be able to say, guys, I'm an overthinker
without being a red flag?
Because I feel likeoverthinking is also a red flag.
On the other side, as much as Iam writing down the red flags
that I see from people, from myoverthinking, I feel like if my
(10:55):
overthinking was also a red flagfor some, that's a problem.
So is it a red flag?
Speaker 2 (11:05):
first of all, it could be a red flag If
overthinking is not treated.
I'm saying as if overthinkingwas a disease.
But if you do not bring it upto the other person or the
person in front of you whetherit's a friend or a partner and
you let them know I'm anoverthinker, it's going to take
me time to trust you.
Then it's going to become a redflag for them.
(11:27):
They might not be able to livewith it.
But it's very important tounderstand that if you have a
friend or a partner or whateverit is, that's an overthinker.
To be patient, because they'regoing to put you through so many
tests, they're going to take alot of your effort.
(11:49):
But once you have reached thatpoint where they trust you so
much, it's a whole new level.
It's a game changer.
You become the center of theirlife, if I can put it that way.
So again, it's going back tothe point that I was mentioning,
as communication is opening upto the other person, whether
(12:10):
it's a friend or a partner,whatever it is, and telling them
listen, I'm an overthinker, ittakes me time to trust people.
I come from trauma, I come fromlack of patience, I come from
lack of trust, and so I need youto be patient.
Now, if the other persondoesn't want to be patient,
you've done your part right.
(12:31):
What can you do?
Speaker 1 (12:33):
So it's a clear message that it wasn't going to
work anyways.
Because you're still thatperson, You're going through
that.
I don't want to say problem,because it's not.
It's not, you're not a problem,You're.
You're just going throughsomething and you're dealing
with it and you're growing fromit.
My question to you is what can?
(12:53):
Now that we know and I, Iacknowledged that I I have an
overthinking issue, what is myfirst?
What can I do?
I'd like we communicated.
People around me know or mightnot know, but as a person me
myself and I I wanted to workwith that team.
I want to do something to helpmyself get out of that whole of
everything.
Because, when I think of it,overthinking is like digging a
(13:19):
hole on your, in your, withyourself, with thoughts and
questions and on ending, it'slike an endless conversation
that I have with myself becausethere's no answers.
So there's more questions andas like more that I'm digging,
there's more question there.
So what can I do to stopdigging, Like literally leaving
(13:41):
the, the, the digging actiontask and started getting up or
clearing my head with this?
How can I do that?
Speaker 2 (13:49):
I wish I could tell you that there is a recipe that
you can follow and that's it.
Um, there is no recipe.
It takes time.
It's not something easy.
You need to sit with yourselfand know why you're overthinking
.
If it's like interest in God,then you need to address it.
For example, I noticed that Ihave a huge problem with
(14:12):
trusting in God or trusting inGod's plan.
I can recite you the verse, forI know the plans I have for you
, plans to prosper you and notto harm you, plans to give you
hope in the future.
I know it by heart, but can Iapply it in my life?
Can I live this verse?
It's extremely difficult for anoverthinker to live this verse.
So what can I do?
What do I do?
I, personally?
(14:32):
I write down.
I write down everything that Ihave been through, everything
that I thought was impossible,that I was not going to get out
of it.
I write it down, and so I standin front of the mirror and I
tell myself, roger, in your face, you thought that it was not
(14:53):
going to happen, you thoughtthat it was impossible.
Look, read this and read thatand that and that and that,
until I'm able to rebuild thetrust because, as we were
mentioning earlier, anoverthinker has a problem with
trusting others.
So until I'm able to rebuildthis trust for God, then I can
(15:13):
reach a point where I canblindly close my eyes and tell
him lead me, I trust you.
And so, whenever somethinghappens, I don't need to
overthink anymore because I knowhe has a plan for my life.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
So I write.
So writing was before writing,because I feel like writing.
Did you start writing recently,or has it been an activity that
you've been doing for a longtime?
Speaker 2 (15:42):
I started let's say a year that I started writing.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
Before that, before the writing, what was the other
solutions for you to be able tocope with overthinking and still
be functional?
Because people, the extremeversion of overthinking is it
will crumbles you and will notmake you functional at all.
So I'm happy, like I know youfor a long time and you've been
(16:08):
functional and you've been morethan functional.
Functional is just that.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
You can say that I've been functional, but inside I
could not functioning at all.
Maybe the outside is completelydifferent from what a person
can be going through.
I could look very good, I lookvery happy, but inside I'm
overthinking everything.
I'm overthinking the shirt, thecolor of the shirts you're
wearing right now.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
As an example.
No, it's beautiful.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
Let's just put this this way If overthinking was a
game and there was levels, Iwould be the creator of the game
.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
But it's a strong statement and I want to ask you
why did you think that ofyourself?
Speaker 2 (16:53):
It's just, I tend to analyze everything and I believe
that this overthinking could beuseful when, for example, I
studied engineering, right, andit was very useful for me during
my capstone year, for example,to overthink everything in my
design, because if I did notoverthink the heat transfer or
(17:15):
the choice of material or thisor that, I was not going to have
a good design right, and thissort of shaped me a little bit.
So I became able.
I became a person who analyzeseverything.
Everything.
People say everything, peoplewrite everything, people do the
way they trust I analyze, and soit made me such a huge
(17:39):
overthinker that, yeah, andwould you say that you were
communicating, that you wereoverthinking, or is it something
that you kept to yourself?
It is something that I kept formyself.
But then, slowly, peoplestarted noticing, Slowly.
(18:00):
I had friends who came to meand told me you're overthinking
this way too much.
It doesn't need this muchoverthinking.
And so when I listened to themand I started again analyzing
what they're saying, I noticedthat you know what I'm actually
an overthinker.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Do you think that they were positive, to tell you
where their comments positive toyou, or do you feel like
because I know that overthinkingare going to take everything
negatively?
They're going to think abouteverything in a fearful way.
Now that you dug your head outof it, do you feel like their
(18:40):
comments were positive ornegative?
Were they actually helping youor were they trying to tell you
you have an issue, like you needto work on it and stress you
about it?
Speaker 2 (18:52):
I don't think all the comments are negative.
Some people.
It depends who you're listeningto.
You have to be able todistinguish between a comment
that's positive.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
Were you able to do that?
Yeah, distinguished between thepositive and the negative,
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
You know you take all the comments and you just
filter them.
You filter whether this personreally wants to see me as a good
person or this person justwants to give me negative
comments.
But no, I think I was able inmy life to distinguish whether a
comment is constructive or notand work on myself.
(19:30):
This is what helped me realizeand notice that I'm an
overthinker and I need to workon myself.
I need to figure out why I'm anoverthinker and how I can
change my life.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
But I love that you realized that deep down, because
you know what.
I have a whole list of causesof overthinking.
There's a lot like there is alot and 75% of people that are
overthinking.
You have a lot of causespossible.
But I love and maybe that wasnot something that I thought of.
(20:07):
But or even I found you foundthat you lack trust with God.
I'm going to ask you, how didyou realize that and why do you
think that that your main rootof overthinking was a lack of
trust between you and your ownGod?
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Because I think I'm a person who likes to be in
control of everything.
So, being that person, it'sdifficult for me to trust in an
averse that says I have a planfor you.
Well, okay, it's as if you know.
Let me give you an example.
It's as if you go to universityand you have your professor
(20:49):
come to you and tell you here'sthat course outline.
If you follow this and youfollow me, you're going to
succeed.
I'm kind of a person who'sgoing to be like okay, maybe I'm
not going to follow theprofessor, I'm going to read the
book and I'm going to work onmy own.
Now, you could do that.
It doesn't guarantee thatyou're going to pass, but your
professor is going to standthere watch you fail and then
(21:10):
you're going to wait for you tocome to them, right?
Speaker 1 (21:13):
Some will challenge you and tell you that I'll do
the book, and actually someclasses are do like you would
actually rather do the book thanthe professor, because the
professor is going to mix you upand just follow the book and
you're going to still pass CauseI feel like correct.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
And I'm not saying that overthinking is always
negative.
You could overthink things.
Let me actually take youthrough the process of what an
overthinker do.
Maybe this will be more clearfor you.
So an overthinker let's saythere is a situation that
happened.
An overthinker is going to livein it over and over and again
(21:50):
and redo scenarios.
Maybe I should have said that.
What if I said that?
And he replied in that way?
I should have replied that wayand then jump to the next
scenario.
Maybe I should have done that,and if he did that, then I could
.
That becomes like a tree and itbecomes like a storm.
There is like a Frenchexpression that says in tornado,
(22:11):
or like a tornado in a cup ofwater becomes like that.
And so sometimes you will fallon a scenario that actually
benefits you.
If it's something in the future, for example, you say, if this
happens, then I'm going to dothis, and if that happens, I'm
going to do this.
And if that happens and this iswhat goes through the mind of
an overthinker, right, so itcould happen that a certain
(22:35):
scenario actually happens andbenefit you.
It's the same thing with theschool example that I gave you.
Right, you could follow thebook and you could succeed.
But you could also follow theprofessor, follow the course
outline and have it much easier.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
So then, what was in the course outline from God that
made you not going to take theoutline?
Is it God himself or is it justlike?
I understand that you werethinking everything, but I
actually respect that.
You said it was my trust inGod's plan.
Now, from there, what did youdo to make it happen?
(23:19):
How did you rebuild that trustwith God?
Because he doesn't have anoutline in hand, or does he
Exactly?
Speaker 2 (23:27):
And this is what's the problem is that you're
unable to see what's going tohappen, and I, like I was saying
earlier, is that I don't havepatience.
I need to know.
You can't come and tell me Ihave a plan for you without
telling me what the plan is.
I really need to know the planand I really need to know what's
going to happen in the nexthour.
Don't come and tell me.
(23:47):
Trust me, I want to trust you,I really do want to trust you,
but it's difficult.
I need to overthink this.
When I finish the show rightnow, what am I going to do next?
I need to plan it.
I need to be ready.
So, again, this isunderstanding that I need to
(24:08):
live in the moment helps a lot,because I'm constantly living in
the future.
I'm living 10 steps ahead.
No, and this is what what Godtells you like you don't have to
live in the future.
There's like a very beautifulverse that I keep on reminding
myself of it, and especiallyduring Lent.
The church reminds us of thisverse so many times, whether
(24:31):
it's in readings or whether it'sin hymns during Vespers praise,
and the verse is very beautiful.
It says, therefore do not worryabout tomorrow, but tomorrow
will worry about its own Right,sufficient for the day.
It's own trouble Right.
This is like the key to anoverthinker and I believe the
(24:55):
British.
They took this verse and theymade their own version of it and
they said do not troubletrouble until trouble troubles
you.
I can see the resemblance.
It's don't think about aproblem that doesn't exist yet.
Don't live in the future andthink about something that
didn't exist yet.
Wait for it to exist, wait forit to happen and then figure it
(25:17):
out, or we'll cross that bridgewhen we get there.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
Yeah, we hear that a lot, and so then with with God,
ok, so tell us maybe a situationthat you felt like overthinking
was actually helpful, and hownot worrying could actually been
even more better.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
Say that again, sorry .
Speaker 1 (25:44):
I was.
No, no worries.
Tell us a story of maybe asituation that you went through
that overthinking was still apositive way to to use or to be.
But not worrying or not eventhinking about living in the
moment is even better, because,like there's always going to be,
(26:06):
overthinking is bad, then thisis better, it's.
It's.
It's black and white, butsometimes we like, well,
overthinking helps, and we'vesaid it today in multiple times,
overthinking helps, but I stillwant to be like no, it actually
never is better than this, likeit's always better to use that
(26:27):
than even that moment.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
Yeah, and whenever I have like a conversation.
There is recently someone thatmessaged me and said hey, I'm
going to call you at that time,I want to speak with you and so
I'm overthinking makingscenarios and I'm preparing
myself because I feel like thatperson is going to be talking
about a certain subject and Ineed to prepare myself.
(26:50):
And so I prepared myself theright way and I felt and I was
lucky that I was right we weregoing to talk about that subject
and I was ready with myarguments and everything.
But I could have also lived inthe moment and went with it and
saved myself a lot of energy anda lot of the trouble of
(27:11):
thinking about all this.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
Have you ever received this?
We always receive that.
We need to talk.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
That we need to talk, of course.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
It makes you like OK, this is my.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
Let me take a pause and overthink this for the next
15 hours or until that personactually calls me.
We need to talk.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
We need to talk text message.
Oh yeah, it's like the recipefor disaster.
It is always disaster.
That's the worst thing.
No, no, no, not necessarily itcould be.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
we need to talk about service.
We need to talk about sleepingearly, because you know we stay
up all night talking, forexample.
I think we should.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
I think we should.
I think the 75% of people thatare going through overthinking
should vote to take out.
We need to talk text.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
Yeah, of course that is my one is allowed to say it
anymore.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
A lot of hurt was created through overthinking and
I I found like a mini recipefrom Forbes.
I'm going to, I'm going to tryto like, I'm going to just in a
minute and tell me, would you dothat or did you do that and how
did you do it?
How, if I did, yes?
(28:23):
So they go with six stepsexcept and then or deny your
thoughts.
Either you accept it or youdeny it.
So it just a simple task.
Number two is retrain yourbrain in your off time
meditation.
Number four get out of yourhead and into your body.
Five do a brain dump, like yousaid, I know that you did.
(28:46):
And six immerse yourself innature.
That's pretty much how, andthat's again from a doctor in.
Natalie the Tilo PhD from theHarvard Medical School.
So I'm pretty sure she knowswhat she's talking about because
she's the psychologist inBoston and professor of
(29:06):
psychology.
So pretty heavy.
But she says take worry, forexample, which is a hallmark
feature of generalized anxietydisorder.
Do you feel like you've donethat?
Speaker 2 (29:21):
I feel like on many occasions, like I said, when I
used to write and I used tostruggle with overthinking, that
I would read it and so tellmyself don't overthink it.
So I think this is the firstpoint of accepting is accept or
deny your thoughts.
I'm not going to think about itbecause I read that God has a
(29:41):
plan for me and and he hasshowed me with so many
situations that he has a goodplan for me.
So I'm not going to think aboutit.
So I accept or deny my thoughts.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
So I believe yes, makes sense these points have
ever went through, because whenI read this, the first thing
that I thought of is you knowthose, those thoughts when
you're like, oh, did I leave myoven open?
Speaker 2 (30:03):
And like yes, and then?
You start to try to remember,but you need to go back and it's
just as you so much.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
Oh my God, no way Did I leave it actually open or
closed.
But that's a simple one, but weget a lot of easy.
This is the problem.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
I remember going out with one of my very good friends
and we went to this restaurantthat has like a paper all over
the table and so they give youlike crayons to like color and
stuff until the food arrives.
And so this other person isalso an overthinker, okay, and
so we started to catch up onlife and and talk about things
(30:36):
that happen.
And as we're talking, we'rejust writing, we're explaining
and drawings and this and that,and so the food arrives, we eat
and everything, and then we lookat the paper and it's a
disaster.
It's, it's, it's horrible.
You're unable to like, findthis pop, to even put a dot and
this.
And we looked at each other andwe're like this is what
(30:58):
happened inside our head.
This is how bad of overthinkerswe are.
We're overthinking every singledetail.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
It's weird to it's.
It's something that what I wantto say is.
It's very it feels so true whenyou're overthinking, but you
still need to trust in the Lordto be Christian, and it feels
like both are opposites and itfeels like you're lacking as a
(31:33):
follower and or someone thattrust like, that wants to trust
in God and that loves God, butit still has this issue To even
trust him.
And when you were saying aboutit, I'm like it's so true,
because when you're in arelationship, you're
overthinking every step and it'snot gonna end up to anything
other than drama and problemsand a heartache when you were
(31:55):
there.
Friends, you're overthinking alot of stuff.
Did he do this on purpose?
Is he talking to them, him andsaying this, is he trustworthy
and he has my full support?
Did he say something?
This happened, like this ishappening to me.
Is it because of him or him orher?
And, like you said, it's atornado in my head and I'm just
(32:17):
stuck in the middle trying tograb onto things to understand
the tornado tornado.
Well, sometimes we need just toleave the tornado for it to be
calm and everything throws backon the floor.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
And I love how you brought back the tornado part,
because there's a very beautifulverse that says be still and
know that I am God.
Right it's, you know it's.
A Christ did the same thingwhen there was a storm in the
boat and then he talked andcommanded the waves to like be
still is the same thing.
Tell the tornado inside of yoube still and know that I am God.
(32:54):
This is the key to Living ahappy life.
If there was a key.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
Really.
Yeah, it is.
It is a good strength.
There's a couple of fears, andI want to be inclusive to all
types because we've talked aboutfew things, but we want to also
try to Describe as much as wecan over thinking, because you
know, we are a lot and we wantto help everyone and we're just
(33:24):
gonna I'm gonna just gonna gothrough them and we're gonna go
go with it.
So, fear of the unknown, Ithink this is we've talked about
it a lot.
Not knowing what what ishappening is is killing.
Absolutely.
I hate surprises.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
I.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
Really pretty pretty parties or pretty surprises,
what?
No, but you know when?
Speaker 2 (33:42):
someone comes to you and tells you I have a surprise
for you.
I hate that person already.
Don't come and tell me I have asurprise.
Tell me, I did this, or I didthat, or this is going to happen
.
I have a surprise for you.
No, no, it doesn't work with me.
I cannot.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
I just I'll joke about it, cuz you know we need
to have fun, even though in life, imagine if the girl is
overthinking everything andshe's getting proposed to.
That's not ideal for her.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
Just make the surprise, but don't tell her
there is a surprise.
Yeah, just propose or dosomething, but don't tell her.
If you tell her, she's probablynot gonna say yes.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
But so telling so just a good distinction.
That you said, telling you thatthere's something waiting for
you, is Where's then justsurprising you?
There's the fact that there'ssomething that you do not know,
right, or is it also thesurprise in itself?
I?
Speaker 2 (34:45):
Think it's just the element of not knowing what's
going to happen.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
It's really the element of the unknown and not
the element of surprise.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
Yes, the unknown, because, like I said, I'm a
person who needs to be ready,who needs to to Know what's
going to happen.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
There's a good verse that I wrote down from Timothy 2
Timothy, chapter 1, verse 7,for God has not given us a
spirit of fear, but of power andof love and of a sound mind.
And I love how you know Goddoesn't like write any, anything
and this verse, I love itbecause it tells you a spirit of
(35:26):
power, of Love and of a soundmind that he knows, he
understand that it's gonna betroublesome in your mind.
You're gonna go through all ofa lot of Hurt and a lot of
thoughts.
On top of that, you're notgonna be able to love as much
because you're gonna be secondguessing everyone next to you
and also you're gonna bepowerless because of it, because
(35:48):
you're gonna be stuck thinkingand that's all Because of fear
and we're gonna talk aboutthrough a lot of fears that
we're gonna go through.
But it just Summarizesoverthinking in the nice one,
don't you think?
Absolutely.
Second one, anxiety, I think,like you said, is there together
(36:13):
and the verse that I wrote fromthat is Philippians 4 6 Do not
be anxious about anything, butin every situation, by prayer
and petition, with Thanksgiving,present your request to God.
Yes, by prayer and petition.
I want to stop on that Becauseif I don't trust in God's plan,
(36:37):
how?
But in every situation?
By prayer and petition.
First of all prayer, that'sgonna be hard, but petition,
what is petition?
Speaker 2 (36:49):
That it's a very beautiful verse and, again, it's
very hard to Apply those verseswhen you're an overthinker.
In my opinion, I think they'reeven harder than the verse that
says love your enemy.
But again it's, it's step bystep.
You need to live day by day,learn to trust him, baby steps.
Speaker 1 (37:13):
Well, imagine every day you need to you to in every
situation, like he's telling youdon't be anxious about anything
which is reassuring, but inevery situation, by prayer and
petition, with Thanksgiving,present your request.
I'm like I'm already drowningin Problems.
(37:34):
I don't have Thanksgiving.
I am trying to just understand.
I don't even have understanding.
Speaker 2 (37:41):
No, absolutely I'm not gonna have Thanksgiving.
And it's like a prayer, is likea seed.
You can't expect To to be ahuge tree or a plant when you're
still a small seed.
You need to water it down.
Take your time, takes time.
It's not a process that'sovernight.
You're gonna wake up and, ma'am, you're not an overthinker
(38:03):
anymore.
No, no, no.
It's gonna take so much time,it's gonna take so much effort
and it's gonna take so manyreminders that God has a plan
for you, that you need to trustGod For you to reach that point,
that you're a tree, thatnothing, nothing is gonna move
you and when you're gonna becomea tree?
Speaker 1 (38:24):
Are you still gonna be fearful or Be able to be over
an overthinker, or is itsomething of the past?
Do you think that over, likeover thinking is a stage where,
when?
Speaker 2 (38:36):
completed.
Speaker 1 (38:37):
Yeah, you don't go back to it.
Speaker 2 (38:39):
No, you're gonna still be a fearful, I think.
Let's take, for example, davidthe prophet and.
David is is one of thecharacters in the Bible that you
know blows my mind.
He said to have the heart ofGod, but yet in one of his, his
Psalms, he says what?
How long old Lord, will youforget me?
Like, for real, you'reoverthinking this.
(39:01):
I feel like David was a bigoverthinker.
You're overthinking it that Godleft you and God did not even
leave you.
You know this is like ascenario that he left you, but
then I Love how he's like a treethat even if there is a little
bit of wind that moved him, hegoes back.
But I trust in God.
(39:21):
I trust in the Lord, like ifyou continue the Psalms, the
Psalms ends with him declaringthat he trust in God.
So even even over thinking isnot just a Disease that you're
going to heal from it.
It's not a disease actually,it's just a process that you put
yourself in and you're going toput yourself in it for the rest
(39:42):
of your life.
But you need to know that thereis a plan he got, that God has
a plan for you.
You need to know that.
Speaker 1 (39:50):
You need to trust him and maybe, maybe, just to
declare, like to add to whatyou're saying is it's not
because you don't see Any fruitsnow from the archery that it's
not gonna come.
It's just not the season of.
Speaker 2 (40:06):
Of the fruit?
Yeah, absolutely and it's.
Speaker 1 (40:07):
It's something because, as much as at the end
of the year You're gonna see thefruit and it's a wow moment,
it's still 300, like it's stilla full year of no food.
Prayers, thanksgiving, you're,thanking God, you're praying,
you are, you are asking him inevery situation to be there
(40:29):
until one day You're able totrust in him and still click
with this process.
It's still a full year or it'sabsolutely every single day,
every single second, andsomething I am I read is the,
the number, the number.
I can't remember the numberSpecifically, but the amount of
thoughts that a human brain Getsin a second, it's pretty
(40:53):
Humongous and from overthinker,he is receiving most of them.
Because the question is not DoI get thoughts?
Everyone get thoughts like ohmy god, this, this light is nice
, or the this, this, this Textis not open, or this is not,
like there's so manypossibilities.
But for an overthinker to gothrough all of them and to add
(41:15):
to it possibilities, this iswhat which gets to the crumbling
part, and this is what we'retrying to like Tell them to take
a breath, exactly, not stress.
Speaker 2 (41:28):
It's okay.
No, it's okay to overthink, butif you find yourself taking all
your energy, taking your entireday, staying up all night, then
that's not okay.
Then you need to stop yourself.
Then you need to tell yourselfbe still, and I want to.
I am you reminded me of a veryNice sermon that Mba Ma'ar was
once giving at the monastery.
He was saying that the the partand the verse that says by
(41:51):
think Thanksgiving.
He was saying anything that theonce was a woman that came to
him and told him I want to, II'm not getting married.
Like I want to get married, noone wants to to approach me or
talk to me or this or that.
And so I told her when you pray, say the following say thank
you, lord, for sending me theright person in the right time.
(42:12):
So it's declaring to God thatyou know I trust you, I am
thanking you and I know thatyou're going to send the right
person in the right time.
So it's as if he took thisverse and he rephrased it for
her in a prayer.
Speaker 1 (42:31):
Being being born in in the orthodox faith and in the
Coptic orthodox faith.
I Feel like we are a Populationof overthinker.
As we, we overthink our future,we overthink every step, we
overthink what people think and,because it's funny and people
(42:54):
will be like people outside,don't overthink that, like they
are they are giving me the space.
I don't feel that that pressureof Overthinking every step that
I'm taking out of fear of theothers, so of social judgment,
and that this is something thatwe as a Community is going
(43:16):
through social judgment Crumblesus to do anything that is what
we want or what we do, what wefeel like it's right for us, but
it's right for the community orit looks good.
How, how did you overcome this?
Speaker 2 (43:33):
I just ignore.
That's it.
It's as easy as that.
When is?
When there's something thatneeds you to to pay attention to
it, pay attention to it, butwhen there's something as silly
as am I gonna become an engineeror a doctor or a lawyer just
ignore.
You have you prepare yourselffor whatever you want to be and
(43:56):
ignore the rest.
Ignore whoever thinks you're afailure, because you know there.
Focus on yourself.
This is what you need to do.
Speaker 1 (44:06):
Focus on yourself but I like it just take more.
Should we also ignore peoplelike our parents or friends?
Or if let's say, let's say thatsomeone of Good authority in
general tells you to to worryabout something or to to make
sure that this or that doesn'taffect you, and you feel like
(44:28):
this is, this is killing me frominside and it's overthinking,
because it takes a lot of energyfrom me and it kills my, my, my
, my process, my whole lifeprocess, and I'm stuck unto this
point.
Speaker 2 (44:41):
Can you give me an example, because I feel like
you're you're going to like havevery specific scenario.
Speaker 1 (44:47):
No, as it's as much as I'll go with Carrier, because
it's the the thing that we gothrough the most here in the
West Western world.
We are lucky to have a lot ofpossibilities, but I feel like
we are only giving our Kids foroptions.
(45:07):
You know the known for optionsbeing a doctor, being a lawyer,
being an engineer or Pharmacistpharmacist, or at the end in,
like they say, or just a garbageman.
Speaker 2 (45:23):
If it's all those four, then you're going to
become a garbage man, absolutelyand Do you feel that that
freedom of choice, or have youpicked it?
Speaker 1 (45:32):
Have you picked your career because of the limitation
that your, our community, hasgiven us?
Speaker 2 (45:44):
I feel like I picked engineering In the beginning.
My plan was not to become anengineer, my plan was to become
a pilot, and so I was a bitoutside of the Four choices that
you were mentioning.
But I was still sociallyaccepted because it was a very
prestigious sort of career.
So I had the support of myfamily and my surroundings and
(46:07):
I'm thankful for that.
So I don't feel like I wasstruggling with this particular
issue of my career.
But I know quite a lot ofpeople who you know they don't
want to become an engineer andthey got into engineering.
And here they are.
They got into there becausetheir parents are pressuring
them and so they're.
(46:29):
They're anxious, they don'twant to continue Right.
And I tell them Once yougraduate, what are you gonna do?
How are you gonna spend fouryears of your life working in a
company and and doing this jobfor the rest of your life?
Speaker 1 (46:44):
just to put in the perspective it's 40 years, 40
hours a week and I know I am.
Speaker 2 (46:49):
By doing this, I am sort of contributing to their
overthinking, but, like we saidearlier, there are some
overthinking that's beneficialright I am paying your attention
to.
You need to overthink thisparticular point, not for long,
but for that specific moment.
You need to overthink itbecause you have four years
ahead of you and if you don'tthink about it right now, how
(47:12):
are you gonna live for the restof your life?
Speaker 1 (47:14):
And and the overthinking does not is not
overthinking, is just thinking,because now you're planning your
life and you are rightfullyPlaced to sit down, to plan, to
think, to see, okay, what are myoptions, what are my passions
exactly what?
What is Interesting for me tocontinue for the rest of my life
(47:37):
as much as marrying someone?
You're sitting down, you'rethinking what are the red flags?
What are the green flags?
What are the possibilities there?
And and go and.
Do you think that if I am anoverthinker, is Every thought
and over overthought, like Icould say that is every thought
(48:00):
that comes to me is alwaysoverthinking, or can it be just
thinking?
Speaker 2 (48:07):
No, not everything like like I said in your
experience?
Yeah, my experience, if ittakes you a lot of energy, if it
keeps you up all night, this isan overthinking.
Speaker 1 (48:17):
How do you do the distinction Between?
It's just a thought, which isnatural.
I am thinking the right amount,the right energy for that
specific thought or for thattype of thoughts, or no?
Now, I'm just Overthinking it.
I'm overdoing it, can it?
Speaker 2 (48:34):
wait until tomorrow.
This is what I asked myself.
Can it wait till tomorrow?
If it can't, then I'moverthinking.
Speaker 1 (48:41):
If it can wait, but there's things are urgent.
Speaker 2 (48:44):
There.
Nothing is as urgent as stayinguntil 5 6 am In the morning,
thinking about it and stressingabout it.
Speaker 1 (48:53):
So if it's urgent, you're gonna act on it.
If you're just thinking aboutit, that's an overthought.
Speaker 2 (48:57):
Yes exactly.
Speaker 1 (48:58):
That's simple.
That's a good.
It's a good.
At least there's perspective toknow.
Okay, am I overthinking or am Ijust thinking I'm able to
continue to my tasks to my day?
I have also.
Well, you said this are ofcontrol, of for control, and
Trust in the Lord with all yourheart and do not lean on your
(49:19):
own understanding.
In all your ways, acknowledgehim and he will make straight
your paths.
And this resumes.
You know the whole.
Everything we're saying exactlyall your heart with all your
heart and it's, it's, it's theshroud, like the little Krak in
the windshield of trust.
That is the start ofoverthinking.
(49:41):
I think this is beautiful toread it and we read it also, but
there's also and this is somesomething that people told me
about is perfectionism, andabsolutely.
Speaker 2 (49:53):
Overthinking and perfectionism are like
hand-in-hand.
And it's not just overthinkinganxious is and perfection.
I'm an perfectionist On a wholenew level.
If something is not perfect,I'm not gonna do it.
Speaker 1 (50:07):
You're like I, rather do it perfectly or not do it,
and you've heard me say this somany times, right?
Speaker 2 (50:13):
And so there are so many projects in my life that I
wanted to start and I'moverthinking.
Oh, how am I gonna dress, howam I gonna talk, how am I gonna
say if I should write a script,if I should do this or that,
that I'm like trying to be aperfectionist so much that I've
never done those projects.
Speaker 1 (50:32):
I would.
I would say even I would sharea truth where even this project
Took me more months that itshould because of the fear of
Perfectionism.
The fact that people might notlike it, people might just not
like me because of it and peoplemight not even, you know, feel
(50:52):
like they want to be Christianor like they're gonna hate
Christ because of me, because ofthat park, and you're like but
there's things that, yes, youneed to do the right thing and
think about it and plan it andbe sure, like, okay, I am
prepared to do the right thingand I'm gonna go, naturally
because you know we don't have astrict script.
But you know, even marketingand at work, it's the same issue
(51:13):
.
Do you feel like, at work,being being perfection, does it
help?
Does, does it ever helped you?
Do you ever have a project thatbeing being perfectionist
actually saves lives, or Doingthe right thing is always okay?
I.
Speaker 2 (51:32):
Think putting effort is enough.
Being perfectionist doesn'thelp.
You can never be perfect.
No one is perfect, like theysay.
You can try to make thisperfect.
You can try to make thispodcast very amazing, right?
And and buy very expensive myMicrophones and write the script
and this and that and that, andstill the result does not
(51:54):
please the people, right?
Or you can just dig and talkabout whatever comes through
your mind and Still get getpeople attention and get people
want to listen to it, right?
Perfectionism does not alwayshelp.
And it brings to my Memory aconversation that I was having
with someone recently wherethey're also Overthinkers and
(52:17):
they're also also perfectionist,right, and there is a certain
subject that they are so afraidof digging in it.
They were telling me it makesme stress so much.
And I'm telling them, like,just dig in it, give it a try.
You never know you, you couldsucceed.
You could also fail, it'spossible.
(52:37):
But give it a try, stopoverthinking and and jump in.
Speaker 1 (52:42):
This is what you need to do one thing that made me
realize is that actually wasgreater than the fear of
perfectionism is the fear ofregret, regretting that I didn't
do it, even though it wasn't itwasn't perfect, even though I
didn't know what is the outcome,even though I did not have
(53:04):
control of everything that wouldhappen to it.
The fear of regretting notdoing at all was Was moving me
to do more and to just do Cuz.
It's funny, cuz I.
When I read the Nike's sloganjust do it, they don't say just
(53:26):
overdo it, no, just do it.
Let's see, let's do it.
Speaker 2 (53:30):
The fear that you're talking about this is
overthinking, right?
You're reliving the past, whenyou could have just saved
yourself by just jumping in.
Now there's this youtuber thatI really love.
His nas daily.
I don't know if you've heard ofhim, yes, and I love how his
first episode he was talkingabout how he started, right, and
he started by doing the oneminute videos.
(53:53):
This is, that's one minutes.
You tomorrow, right?
And he was saying that.
You know, I just jumped in.
I didn't know how it's going oror what the outcome would be,
and as I'm going, I'm learningnew stuff and I'm making it
perfect.
I'm making it better, right?
So this is what you need to do.
You just need to jump in.
Speaker 1 (54:13):
There's also the, the fear of guilt or shame, because
the, so the fear of guilt ofand shame, combos us from from
something that we did in thepast, and the look that we have
to our own selves Forget thesocial part of it, even to our
(54:36):
own selves.
In front of God, in front ofHim, it's not even interesting.
Him, it's like I don't evenlook good.
How did you ever feel that andhow did you work from it?
Speaker 2 (54:48):
Absolutely.
Trauma is the cause of fear inthe past.
Right, you need to tellyourself that whatever happened
in the past does not define you.
What defines you is what you dotoday and what you plan on
doing in the future.
Speaker 1 (55:06):
I'll try to answer that with well.
If they knew what happened,they will change their mind
about me.
So if I say my dark secret,your perspective of me will
change, even though today I amcompletely good or I'm
completely another person, orI've worked hard to become such
(55:30):
and such, or I've been workingon it for so long, or I'm just
on another new day.
But knowing the knowledge ofthe past or that dark secret
puts the other person to changetheir perspective.
How would you answer that?
When people tell you people ifthey knew, they would change
their mind about me.
Speaker 2 (55:49):
I would tell them if a person changes their mind
about you because of your past,you don't need that person in
your life.
Speaker 1 (55:57):
It's very hard to cut off people's soul.
Speaker 2 (56:01):
Absolutely, absolutely.
It's very hard to let go, evenif it's a person that you've met
for a very short period of time.
But once you've got used tothat person, it's hard to let go
.
But tell yourself somethingit's better to let go now than
to stick to that person and gethurt even more and more and more
(56:21):
.
Or to stick to that person andhide behind a mask.
That's not you, because you'retoo worried and too anxious that
that person will know the past.
Speaker 1 (56:33):
But the hope, the hope of it be different with the
person.
Let's say that maybe in thatmoment he would not understand
or she would not understand.
But let's say, if I've givenher more time with me, she might
give me a chance, or he mightgive me the time of day or the
(56:53):
ear that I need for me to saythe dark secret.
Is that always true or this isa myth?
What do you think?
Have you ever been in thatsituation where you feel like
you've said something too fast?
Now you're just like, okay, I'mgoing to take my time and say
it later.
Or do you get stuck in themiddle overthinking when should
(57:16):
I say it, or do I even say it?
Speaker 2 (57:18):
Never.
Here's where I think I thinkthat you should not tell the
person anything about the past.
That's my opinion, and I thinkthat's also the opinion of a lot
of fathers.
If you speak with your fatherof compassion, they will tell
you your past or your sins orwhatever happened in the past is
for you to tell the God tolearn from it and to move on,
(57:40):
not for you to share it withyour partner.
That's my opinion.
Speaker 1 (57:47):
Again, and I'm going to try to test it if you don't
mind.
So any of the past.
You wouldn't say anything fromthe past, nothing.
Past relationship, pastencounters, past troubles, past
friends.
What's the point?
(58:07):
What's the point.
Speaker 2 (58:08):
Maybe it's a recipe for disaster, and it's a recipe
for overthinking, because now,once you have told that person,
you're going to stay up allnight thinking did that person
take it the right way?
What are they thinking of meright now?
Are they thinking I'm a goodperson?
Are they going to leave me?
And then you start creatingscenarios of them leaving you
(58:28):
and putting them through so manytests to make sure that they're
actually not leaving you to thepoint that that person is going
to reach a level where you knowwhat.
I don't want to know youanymore, like I didn't care
about whatever you told me inthe past, but right now you're
making my life miserable that Idon't want to continue in this
present.
Right.
So why?
Why don't you tell yourselfthat you know what?
(58:49):
I'm not going to tell anythingabout the past.
I'm going to let that personmeet me, who I am today and who
I plan to be in the future.
And whatever happened in thepast is the past and, like I
said earlier, the past is foryou to learn from it and move on
.
The future is for you to hopefor it and not to be anxious
about it.
Speaker 1 (59:12):
It's good advice and I wish I had someone, or like
someone, to tell me that before,because the time I wasted
thinking or let's say it,overthink it pushed so many
people away.
(59:34):
And not only that pushed me awayfrom people Absolutely, because
I had a barrier and I'm likeyou know what?
I don't want to talk, or Idon't want to even get closer to
you, because if I'm going toget close, this is going to
happen and this is going tohappen.
And when I overthink this andthis and this, why do all this?
Just stay away, I'll be better.
Speaker 2 (59:53):
Exactly.
I've done so many of these andI've lost so many people around
me until I realized that whatI'm doing is wrong.
Speaker 1 (01:00:01):
Were you able to reconcile people from that?
Were you able to be like, okay,this is the time where I was
overthinking.
Sorry, Is it doable?
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (01:00:10):
absolutely.
I was recently having aconversation with, actually, one
of my good friends and theywere telling me, like what you
did was wrong, what you did tome was wrong, and I apologized
and we reconciled and explained.
I explained how I was anoverthinker and how I've been
through this and that and thatand that and the whole process,
and certain people will acceptit and others will not.
(01:00:33):
Certain people will tell youokay, I understand where you're
coming from, and others will belike I don't even want to listen
to you and that's okay.
That's okay, that's the right.
Speaker 1 (01:00:45):
And this is not a true question but some people
that will reject me, even thoughI try to reconcile.
I'm going to feel bad, I'mgoing to feel shameful, I'm
going to regret trying.
What do you say to that?
What do you say to the peoplethat were like why put myself in
a position where people wouldtell me something that would not
(01:01:07):
insult me but hurt me?
Because it's hurtful to tellsomeone, no, I don't want to be
friends with you.
It's very hard.
I've actually had multiplepeople tell me no, no, this
friendship I don't want to know.
It's pretty much.
I don't want to be friends withyou, even though, like, I'm
sorry for what happened.
You know this happened, youknow I have this or I'm going
(01:01:28):
through this or this is mysituation, but I still want to
be friends and be like no, Idon't want to Not as like I
don't mean to everyone to belike so heartless, but the way I
took it is it feels like it'sso heartless to say no to a
friendship.
Speaker 2 (01:01:46):
You can't force someone to be with you, you
can't force someone to love you.
You got to accept it.
Okay, I have done what I neededto do, what my God has
commanded me to do, which is toapproach you and to apologize
for everything that I have donein the past, and I will approach
you and apologize for hurtingyou.
If you want to accept it, good,I'm ready to start over.
(01:02:09):
If you don't want to accept it,then I have done my part.
It doesn't define me anymore.
It defines you.
You are a person who doesn'twant to accept, right.
Speaker 1 (01:02:21):
It's, and when you come to that realization, it
changes your whole likeperspective and perspective,
because you're like, I've donewhat I like I need to do and I'm
good.
I am where I am and I'm movingforward and I'm moving forward.
So, whether we're that too,it's okay, but it's you now
(01:02:43):
Absolutely Good.
You've given, you played theball and it's in their court.
Speaker 2 (01:02:47):
You played whatever they want to kick it, they kick
it, they kick it, they don't.
Speaker 1 (01:02:50):
You're lost in their court.
Speaker 2 (01:02:52):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (01:02:54):
I think we, I think we did everything.
The only thing that I just wantto mention that because it's
over thinking.
It's such an inside thing thatwe there's also emphasizing on
things that are outside of you,like material success or
materialistic.
Being materialistic sometimesmakes you over thinking a lot of
(01:03:16):
things because you want to keepthat, that progress, and it
makes you paranoid of anymovement of that dollar signs in
any way or progress thatstresses you out all day long or
all year long to be like, oh, Iwas at that point, but now,
like I'm lower, like it's, forexample, covid, covid, a lot of
(01:03:37):
people lost a lot of things andand it creates a lot of stress
and and and put over thinkers tomaximum input.
Because, you're like okay, Idon't have a job.
Speaker 2 (01:03:50):
I don't have a job.
Speaker 1 (01:03:51):
Yes, and you're in your, you're at home, you're in
your head.
You're not doing much becauseyou're stuck at home with no one
.
You're most probably gaming,like I did, but at least you're
not working.
You're not.
You're not focusing on otherstuff than you focus on yourself
, and all is happening aroundyou is closed down and like
people are dying and people aresick and and there's no work and
(01:04:14):
the economy is on the floor.
People came out on an anxiousand there's a lot of people that
are overthinking just becauseof that.
What can we say to help them,or to even reconcile the, the,
the, this hard truth, that hardtime, and tell them it's okay,
(01:04:36):
it's gonna be better?
Speaker 2 (01:04:38):
I mean, I mean, I feel like, like you're saying,
covid was a reason for a lot ofpeople to get to, like, get in
their head and realize howanxious they are or how they're
suffering from an anxiety.
But it was also a time whereeveryone was telling each other
(01:05:01):
we're in this together, right.
So it's very important toremember that you're not alone,
right, and this is the reasonwhy I'm here as well.
Right, it's to tell peopleyou're not alone.
You're not the only person whowas overthinking his life.
I'm also overthinking, right.
So just remembering that you'renot alone, remembering to trust
(01:05:24):
God, is what I think I isenough to tell others.
Speaker 1 (01:05:31):
I think over time every day, to do that is going
to help.
I think prayer, and a lot ofprayers, is required for you to
go through overthinking andsurvive it, Absolutely.
You know there's.
I think we should legit createa blog or something and write
(01:05:52):
all the quotes.
And you know you have this.
Have you seen that picture orthat?
There's your problems.
Speaker 2 (01:06:02):
And then the verse that goes with it.
Absolutely, you say this, andthen God says that, and I'm
anxious, but I do not fear, forI am the Lord I love this
picture.
Speaker 1 (01:06:14):
There's a few times that I saw it and it's like it
came to the right.
There's actually some like aperson that always, especially
is me and the most randomness,like random moments in my life,
like they send me a quote orlike a video or a reel and and
just the answer of that time islike how did you know?
(01:06:36):
Were you in my thoughts and wereyou in my thoughts and I didn't
know.
Do you have any bookrecommendations, have you like?
Do you have books that you'veread that helped you with
overthinking, or that could be aplace to start?
Speaker 2 (01:06:53):
There is a very beautiful series of books right
now that I have been reading andit's allowing me to see someone
who has been going throughtrauma and in the process they
took to really trusting God, andit's the book Elijah or, I
think, elements.
It's called Elements, thetransformation of Elijah, or
something like this.
(01:07:13):
I feel like this book isessential for everyone to read
it.
It's going to change a lot ofpeople's life.
It personally changed my life.
Speaker 1 (01:07:23):
I actually started and in the first maybe 100 pages
I've never read so fast a book.
I've not done with it, I'mgoing to say the truth.
But the first I remember when Iwas reading the first 100, it
took me like not even a sitting.
Speaker 2 (01:07:37):
I was sitting down and then just flew away and I
was like, wow, yeah, I amreading because I don't read and
you can connect so much to thatperson because he's another
Coptic Orthodox guy who is bornin Canada and who's raised the
same way that we were raised,with the same mentality of
parents and everything.
So you can connect so much tohim and so you can see
(01:08:01):
everything that he's gonethrough whether it's trauma,
whether it's events, sad eventsor happy events and how he coped
with it and how God was withhim.
So it really changes your life.
Speaker 1 (01:08:14):
It does, it does.
Thank you again, rajeev, forcoming and taking your time to
speak to us, to something sodeep and something that
sometimes we don't realize thatit's a problem, and to help
everyone, including me, to haveperspective on something so hard
.
Thank you so much.
Thank you for having me.
Thank you, guys for tuning intoday.
Please continue subscribing,sharing and liking our videos.
(01:08:37):
It helps us with all thealgorithm, as you know.
Follow us.
We're going to put all ourlinks down below.
Have a good day and God bless.
Hey everyone, welcome back to the Salt and Light
podcast.
Today it's episode number four.
Thank you all for tuning in forall the last three.
Here's more better content withRojim Khayel.
Rojim, I want to let youpresent yourself and also tell
us why did you pick today'sepisode.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Thank you, michael, for having me on the show.
My name is Rojim Khayel and I'man aerospace engineer.
I'm 28 years old.
The subject that I picked todayis the overthinking mind, and
the reason why I picked thissubject is because I myself, for
the longest time, wasstruggling with an overthinking
mind, and I know quite a lot ofpeople who also do so.
I wanted not only to be aneye-opener to others, but to
(00:43):
also remind myself of where Iwas and where I want to be.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
I feel like you went through a lot, but tell us, what
was the maybe first time thatyou realized you were an
overthinker or you werestruggling with overthinking?
Speaker 2 (01:00):
I can't remember the first time because I feel like
I've always been an overthinker,but I can remember like
situation that like where I slapacross the face.
I remember one day in myprevious previous job, my boss
called me and actually sent me amessage on Teams and told me
can you come into my officetomorrow?
And so I'm such an overthinker.
(01:22):
I started overthinking.
Why does he want to see me?
Is he not satisfied with mywork?
Am I getting fired?
And so overthinking got me upall night preparing my CV and
applying for jobs, because I wasso convinced that tomorrow my
boss is going to fire me.
And so the next day I go and Isit in front of him and he tells
(01:42):
me I'm very happy with yourwork and one of our colleagues
was resigning, so he was askingme if I wanted to take more
tasks of his tasks.
And so this was such a slapacross my face because I told
myself right now at that secondI'm such a prisoner of my own
thoughts I am overthinking.
(02:04):
I wasted 10, 15 hours of mylife preparing CVs and applying
for jobs when I did not need todo all this.
So this was sort of like an eyeopener of I need to change
something.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
And it's true that we all work because I went through
this also and tell us whatcould have you done differently
to just be prepared, becausebeing called by your boss is not
the easiest message because youknow that maybe you're in
trouble, you did something andhe's going to you know like he's
(02:38):
going to tell you about it andyou're going to be reprimanded
because of it, and there's a lotof moments that we're going to.
We worry about the bad, theworst or the bad moments,
because we don't want to gethurt.
How do you put those twotogether Not being ready but
also not worry as much as beingcrumpled, being stopped like
(03:04):
this.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
I mean, I understand your question but for an
overthinker, regardless of evenif you're doing so great and
everything is perfectly fine andyou're working hard, you're
going to overthink everythingand overthinker things.
That, for an average person, isvery silly.
An overthinker can overthink atext message.
(03:28):
Why did this person not put animaging inside the text message?
And they would stay for hourscontemplating is this person
upset?
Is this person mad?
So, regardless of what's goingon, an overthinker is going to
overthink, regardless of how heprepared he is, of how straight
he's working or walking or doing.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
I'm with you because when I was preparing and there's
stats that I wasn't reallysurprised because I know a lot
of overthinker.
I am also an overthinker and Ioverthink a lot of things, and
in the Harvard Medical School,dr Natalia says that 73% of 25
(04:11):
between 25 and 35 year old arechronically overthinking and 52%
of the people between 45 and 55are also overthinking.
So there's a lot ofoverthinking there.
So I know that it's somethingthat applies to a lot of people.
But there is a lot of causesthat brings us to overthinking,
(04:32):
to worry.
What were the ones that?
were your week like what werethe ones that causes you to
overthink, other than the?
You know I understand thatextreme moments with your bosses
or things that most of us, eventhough I'm not overthinking, is
going to push me to worry, butwhat, in your environment, was
(04:53):
the causes of your overthinking?
Speaker 2 (04:57):
I believe there are three reasons that I personally
have experienced or have noticedon myself, but other people
have different things Lack ofpatience I'm a person who is
absolutely not patient, and sothis lack of patient makes me
always want to know what'shappening, what's, what's about
to happen next, so it causes meto overthink a lot.
(05:19):
The second thing is lack oftrust.
Whether it's lack of trust inGod or lack of trust in others,
makes me unable you know, Ican't trust person A or person B
, so I'm going to overthinkwhat's going to happen or what
happened.
And the last thing is trauma.
(05:40):
Past bad experience can causeyou to overthink so much and
cause a lot of anxiety, and Ifeel like overthinking and
anxiety are like byproduct ofeach other 100% with you.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
and patience.
You're telling me patience,trust.
And what was the third one?
Trauma, trauma.
We've talked about traumaalready.
Tell me patience is somethingthat I did not think of, but I
see that as well.
the issue of overthinking,because you want to know the
(06:17):
answer now what is going onaround you in the present, even,
not even in the past, but withtrust, trauma and and and
patience.
What can we do?
What are the?
What did you do to go throughall of this and to go beyond of
that?
Like this is not a few days ofoverthinking, we're talking
(06:38):
about years.
And like I've been throughgoing through this for years and
sometimes I do fall inoverthinking and I just stress
myself out.
Did this person mean that inthe attacks or did this happen
because of this?
The time that took someone towrite a text is also possible.
What can we tell people to saylike, okay, it's going to be
(07:01):
okay, but without being so cornyof it's going to be okay.
What can we?
What can we do to help peopleto be like I'm giving you the
truth.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
From my experience, the answer to this is lies in
understanding what anoverthinker is.
So an overthinker is a personwho does not live in the moment,
constantly living either in thepast or in the future.
If you're living in the past,you're really living situations
that happened, and sometimesit's caused of trauma.
(07:35):
If you're living in the future,it's because you're worried or
anxious about what's going tohappen.
So you really need tounderstand where are you?
Are you thinking aboutsituations that happened in the
past or the future?
If we're thinking about thepast and something that happened
, you need to understand thatthe past is there for you to
(07:58):
learn from it, not to relive it.
Once you have learned from it,you move on.
You do not look back at it.
And if you're living in thefuture, you need to understand
that the future is there for youto hope for it, not to be
anxious about it.
And that's my intake from allthose years of overthink.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
I'll be the other side telling you, but there's so
much trauma in my past that Icannot just learn from it.
But I know it's repetitivebecause it did repeat itself.
History repeats itself.
So if my past is going tohappen again, I need to be
cautious and that's the wordthat we will always use as being
(08:45):
cautious of what is going tohappen from people.
For example, a bad relationship.
This happened, x, y, z happened.
There's cheating, there's this.
I'm going to come in and in thenext relationship I'll be aware
I'll be even overly cautiousand precautious.
(09:05):
I'm going to be precautiousabout what I'm going to say or
do with that person beforegetting closer and getting in
the wrong path no, not evenwrong path, just getting
vulnerable for her to hurt meagain.
And I'm going to repeat thisbecause I'm in a new
relationship and this is therecipe for overthinking.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
You don't need to be cautious, you have to learn from
it.
You have to learn that, forexample, if that person does
this and that and that this iscalled red flags, learn from
those red flags and if younotice them in the next
relationship, then you stop themright away.
But being cautious and thenoverthinking this person is
taking so much time to text.
(09:47):
Are they not serious?
Are they interested?
Are they not interested?
It makes you overthink and itmakes you stay up all night for
nothing.
The key to this iscommunication.
Communicate with the otherperson.
Hey, I know you're not really agood textor, but I kind of like
, if you like, respond quitefast.
(10:08):
I don't know.
You know communication helps alot with overthinkers.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Letting them know at least that you have that issue,
so that if there's any badmoments that you're not able to
handle overthinking, or you arein the middle of overthinking
and you're erratic, at leastthey're going to be there to
support because you're at 10% ofyour capacity and they're going
to come with the 90%.
(10:34):
But did you find that?
Were you able to be able to say, guys, I'm an overthinker
without being a red flag?
Because I feel likeoverthinking is also a red flag.
On the other side, as much as Iam writing down the red flags
that I see from people, from myoverthinking, I feel like if my
(10:55):
overthinking was also a red flagfor some, that's a problem.
So is it a red flag?
Speaker 2 (11:05):
first of all, it could be a red flag If
overthinking is not treated.
I'm saying as if overthinkingwas a disease.
But if you do not bring it upto the other person or the
person in front of you whetherit's a friend or a partner and
you let them know I'm anoverthinker, it's going to take
me time to trust you.
Then it's going to become a redflag for them.
(11:27):
They might not be able to livewith it.
But it's very important tounderstand that if you have a
friend or a partner or whateverit is, that's an overthinker.
To be patient, because they'regoing to put you through so many
tests, they're going to take alot of your effort.
(11:49):
But once you have reached thatpoint where they trust you so
much, it's a whole new level.
It's a game changer.
You become the center of theirlife, if I can put it that way.
So again, it's going back tothe point that I was mentioning,
as communication is opening upto the other person, whether
(12:10):
it's a friend or a partner,whatever it is, and telling them
listen, I'm an overthinker, ittakes me time to trust people.
I come from trauma, I come fromlack of patience, I come from
lack of trust, and so I need youto be patient.
Now, if the other persondoesn't want to be patient,
you've done your part right.
(12:31):
What can you do?
Speaker 1 (12:33):
So it's a clear message that it wasn't going to
work anyways.
Because you're still thatperson, You're going through
that.
I don't want to say problem,because it's not.
It's not, you're not a problem,You're.
You're just going throughsomething and you're dealing
with it and you're growing fromit.
My question to you is what can?
(12:53):
Now that we know and I, Iacknowledged that I I have an
overthinking issue, what is myfirst?
What can I do?
I'd like we communicated.
People around me know or mightnot know, but as a person me
myself and I I wanted to workwith that team.
I want to do something to helpmyself get out of that whole of
everything.
Because, when I think of it,overthinking is like digging a
(13:19):
hole on your, in your, withyourself, with thoughts and
questions and on ending, it'slike an endless conversation
that I have with myself becausethere's no answers.
So there's more questions andas like more that I'm digging,
there's more question there.
So what can I do to stopdigging, Like literally leaving
(13:41):
the, the, the digging actiontask and started getting up or
clearing my head with this?
How can I do that?
Speaker 2 (13:49):
I wish I could tell you that there is a recipe that
you can follow and that's it.
Um, there is no recipe.
It takes time.
It's not something easy.
You need to sit with yourselfand know why you're overthinking
.
If it's like interest in God,then you need to address it.
For example, I noticed that Ihave a huge problem with
(14:12):
trusting in God or trusting inGod's plan.
I can recite you the verse, forI know the plans I have for you
, plans to prosper you and notto harm you, plans to give you
hope in the future.
I know it by heart, but can Iapply it in my life?
Can I live this verse?
It's extremely difficult for anoverthinker to live this verse.
So what can I do?
What do I do?
I, personally?
(14:32):
I write down.
I write down everything that Ihave been through, everything
that I thought was impossible,that I was not going to get out
of it.
I write it down, and so I standin front of the mirror and I
tell myself, roger, in your face, you thought that it was not
(14:53):
going to happen, you thoughtthat it was impossible.
Look, read this and read thatand that and that and that,
until I'm able to rebuild thetrust because, as we were
mentioning earlier, anoverthinker has a problem with
trusting others.
So until I'm able to rebuildthis trust for God, then I can
(15:13):
reach a point where I canblindly close my eyes and tell
him lead me, I trust you.
And so, whenever somethinghappens, I don't need to
overthink anymore because I knowhe has a plan for my life.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
So I write.
So writing was before writing,because I feel like writing.
Did you start writing recently,or has it been an activity that
you've been doing for a longtime?
Speaker 2 (15:42):
I started let's say a year that I started writing.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
Before that, before the writing, what was the other
solutions for you to be able tocope with overthinking and still
be functional?
Because people, the extremeversion of overthinking is it
will crumbles you and will notmake you functional at all.
So I'm happy, like I know youfor a long time and you've been
(16:08):
functional and you've been morethan functional.
Functional is just that.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
You can say that I've been functional, but inside I
could not functioning at all.
Maybe the outside is completelydifferent from what a person
can be going through.
I could look very good, I lookvery happy, but inside I'm
overthinking everything.
I'm overthinking the shirt, thecolor of the shirts you're
wearing right now.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
As an example.
No, it's beautiful.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
Let's just put this this way If overthinking was a
game and there was levels, Iwould be the creator of the game
.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
But it's a strong statement and I want to ask you
why did you think that ofyourself?
Speaker 2 (16:53):
It's just, I tend to analyze everything and I believe
that this overthinking could beuseful when, for example, I
studied engineering, right, andit was very useful for me during
my capstone year, for example,to overthink everything in my
design, because if I did notoverthink the heat transfer or
(17:15):
the choice of material or thisor that, I was not going to have
a good design right, and thissort of shaped me a little bit.
So I became able.
I became a person who analyzeseverything.
Everything.
People say everything, peoplewrite everything, people do the
way they trust I analyze, and soit made me such a huge
(17:39):
overthinker that, yeah, andwould you say that you were
communicating, that you wereoverthinking, or is it something
that you kept to yourself?
It is something that I kept formyself.
But then, slowly, peoplestarted noticing, Slowly.
(18:00):
I had friends who came to meand told me you're overthinking
this way too much.
It doesn't need this muchoverthinking.
And so when I listened to themand I started again analyzing
what they're saying, I noticedthat you know what I'm actually
an overthinker.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Do you think that they were positive, to tell you
where their comments positive toyou, or do you feel like
because I know that overthinkingare going to take everything
negatively?
They're going to think abouteverything in a fearful way.
Now that you dug your head outof it, do you feel like their
(18:40):
comments were positive ornegative?
Were they actually helping youor were they trying to tell you
you have an issue, like you needto work on it and stress you
about it?
Speaker 2 (18:52):
I don't think all the comments are negative.
Some people.
It depends who you're listeningto.
You have to be able todistinguish between a comment
that's positive.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
Were you able to do that?
Yeah, distinguished between thepositive and the negative,
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
You know you take all the comments and you just
filter them.
You filter whether this personreally wants to see me as a good
person or this person justwants to give me negative
comments.
But no, I think I was able inmy life to distinguish whether a
comment is constructive or notand work on myself.
(19:30):
This is what helped me realizeand notice that I'm an
overthinker and I need to workon myself.
I need to figure out why I'm anoverthinker and how I can
change my life.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
But I love that you realized that deep down, because
you know what.
I have a whole list of causesof overthinking.
There's a lot like there is alot and 75% of people that are
overthinking.
You have a lot of causespossible.
But I love and maybe that wasnot something that I thought of.
(20:07):
But or even I found you foundthat you lack trust with God.
I'm going to ask you, how didyou realize that and why do you
think that that your main rootof overthinking was a lack of
trust between you and your ownGod?
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Because I think I'm a person who likes to be in
control of everything.
So, being that person, it'sdifficult for me to trust in an
averse that says I have a planfor you.
Well, okay, it's as if you know.
Let me give you an example.
It's as if you go to universityand you have your professor
(20:49):
come to you and tell you here'sthat course outline.
If you follow this and youfollow me, you're going to
succeed.
I'm kind of a person who'sgoing to be like okay, maybe I'm
not going to follow theprofessor, I'm going to read the
book and I'm going to work onmy own.
Now, you could do that.
It doesn't guarantee thatyou're going to pass, but your
professor is going to standthere watch you fail and then
(21:10):
you're going to wait for you tocome to them, right?
Speaker 1 (21:13):
Some will challenge you and tell you that I'll do
the book, and actually someclasses are do like you would
actually rather do the book thanthe professor, because the
professor is going to mix you upand just follow the book and
you're going to still pass CauseI feel like correct.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
And I'm not saying that overthinking is always
negative.
You could overthink things.
Let me actually take youthrough the process of what an
overthinker do.
Maybe this will be more clearfor you.
So an overthinker let's saythere is a situation that
happened.
An overthinker is going to livein it over and over and again
(21:50):
and redo scenarios.
Maybe I should have said that.
What if I said that?
And he replied in that way?
I should have replied that wayand then jump to the next
scenario.
Maybe I should have done that,and if he did that, then I could
.
That becomes like a tree and itbecomes like a storm.
There is like a Frenchexpression that says in tornado,
(22:11):
or like a tornado in a cup ofwater becomes like that.
And so sometimes you will fallon a scenario that actually
benefits you.
If it's something in the future, for example, you say, if this
happens, then I'm going to dothis, and if that happens, I'm
going to do this.
And if that happens and this iswhat goes through the mind of
an overthinker, right, so itcould happen that a certain
(22:35):
scenario actually happens andbenefit you.
It's the same thing with theschool example that I gave you.
Right, you could follow thebook and you could succeed.
But you could also follow theprofessor, follow the course
outline and have it much easier.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
So then, what was in the course outline from God that
made you not going to take theoutline?
Is it God himself or is it justlike?
I understand that you werethinking everything, but I
actually respect that.
You said it was my trust inGod's plan.
Now, from there, what did youdo to make it happen?
(23:19):
How did you rebuild that trustwith God?
Because he doesn't have anoutline in hand, or does he
Exactly?
Speaker 2 (23:27):
And this is what's the problem is that you're
unable to see what's going tohappen, and I, like I was saying
earlier, is that I don't havepatience.
I need to know.
You can't come and tell me Ihave a plan for you without
telling me what the plan is.
I really need to know the planand I really need to know what's
going to happen in the nexthour.
Don't come and tell me.
(23:47):
Trust me, I want to trust you,I really do want to trust you,
but it's difficult.
I need to overthink this.
When I finish the show rightnow, what am I going to do next?
I need to plan it.
I need to be ready.
So, again, this isunderstanding that I need to
(24:08):
live in the moment helps a lot,because I'm constantly living in
the future.
I'm living 10 steps ahead.
No, and this is what what Godtells you like you don't have to
live in the future.
There's like a very beautifulverse that I keep on reminding
myself of it, and especiallyduring Lent.
The church reminds us of thisverse so many times, whether
(24:31):
it's in readings or whether it'sin hymns during Vespers praise,
and the verse is very beautiful.
It says, therefore do not worryabout tomorrow, but tomorrow
will worry about its own Right,sufficient for the day.
It's own trouble Right.
This is like the key to anoverthinker and I believe the
(24:55):
British.
They took this verse and theymade their own version of it and
they said do not troubletrouble until trouble troubles
you.
I can see the resemblance.
It's don't think about aproblem that doesn't exist yet.
Don't live in the future andthink about something that
didn't exist yet.
Wait for it to exist, wait forit to happen and then figure it
(25:17):
out, or we'll cross that bridgewhen we get there.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
Yeah, we hear that a lot, and so then with with God,
ok, so tell us maybe a situationthat you felt like overthinking
was actually helpful, and hownot worrying could actually been
even more better.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
Say that again, sorry .
Speaker 1 (25:44):
I was.
No, no worries.
Tell us a story of maybe asituation that you went through
that overthinking was still apositive way to to use or to be.
But not worrying or not eventhinking about living in the
moment is even better, because,like there's always going to be,
(26:06):
overthinking is bad, then thisis better, it's.
It's.
It's black and white, butsometimes we like, well,
overthinking helps, and we'vesaid it today in multiple times,
overthinking helps, but I stillwant to be like no, it actually
never is better than this, likeit's always better to use that
(26:27):
than even that moment.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
Yeah, and whenever I have like a conversation.
There is recently someone thatmessaged me and said hey, I'm
going to call you at that time,I want to speak with you and so
I'm overthinking makingscenarios and I'm preparing
myself because I feel like thatperson is going to be talking
about a certain subject and Ineed to prepare myself.
(26:50):
And so I prepared myself theright way and I felt and I was
lucky that I was right we weregoing to talk about that subject
and I was ready with myarguments and everything.
But I could have also lived inthe moment and went with it and
saved myself a lot of energy anda lot of the trouble of
(27:11):
thinking about all this.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
Have you ever received this?
We always receive that.
We need to talk.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
That we need to talk, of course.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
It makes you like OK, this is my.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
Let me take a pause and overthink this for the next
15 hours or until that personactually calls me.
We need to talk.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
We need to talk text message.
Oh yeah, it's like the recipefor disaster.
It is always disaster.
That's the worst thing.
No, no, no, not necessarily itcould be.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
we need to talk about service.
We need to talk about sleepingearly, because you know we stay
up all night talking, forexample.
I think we should.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
I think we should.
I think the 75% of people thatare going through overthinking
should vote to take out.
We need to talk text.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
Yeah, of course that is my one is allowed to say it
anymore.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
A lot of hurt was created through overthinking and
I I found like a mini recipefrom Forbes.
I'm going to, I'm going to tryto like, I'm going to just in a
minute and tell me, would you dothat or did you do that and how
did you do it?
How, if I did, yes?
(28:23):
So they go with six stepsexcept and then or deny your
thoughts.
Either you accept it or youdeny it.
So it just a simple task.
Number two is retrain yourbrain in your off time
meditation.
Number four get out of yourhead and into your body.
Five do a brain dump, like yousaid, I know that you did.
(28:46):
And six immerse yourself innature.
That's pretty much how, andthat's again from a doctor in.
Natalie the Tilo PhD from theHarvard Medical School.
So I'm pretty sure she knowswhat she's talking about because
she's the psychologist inBoston and professor of
(29:06):
psychology.
So pretty heavy.
But she says take worry, forexample, which is a hallmark
feature of generalized anxietydisorder.
Do you feel like you've donethat?
Speaker 2 (29:21):
I feel like on many occasions, like I said, when I
used to write and I used tostruggle with overthinking, that
I would read it and so tellmyself don't overthink it.
So I think this is the firstpoint of accepting is accept or
deny your thoughts.
I'm not going to think about itbecause I read that God has a
(29:41):
plan for me and and he hasshowed me with so many
situations that he has a goodplan for me.
So I'm not going to think aboutit.
So I accept or deny my thoughts.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
So I believe yes, makes sense these points have
ever went through, because whenI read this, the first thing
that I thought of is you knowthose, those thoughts when
you're like, oh, did I leave myoven open?
Speaker 2 (30:03):
And like yes, and then?
You start to try to remember,but you need to go back and it's
just as you so much.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
Oh my God, no way Did I leave it actually open or
closed.
But that's a simple one, but weget a lot of easy.
This is the problem.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
I remember going out with one of my very good friends
and we went to this restaurantthat has like a paper all over
the table and so they give youlike crayons to like color and
stuff until the food arrives.
And so this other person isalso an overthinker, okay, and
so we started to catch up onlife and and talk about things
(30:36):
that happen.
And as we're talking, we'rejust writing, we're explaining
and drawings and this and that,and so the food arrives, we eat
and everything, and then we lookat the paper and it's a
disaster.
It's, it's, it's horrible.
You're unable to like, findthis pop, to even put a dot and
this.
And we looked at each other andwe're like this is what
(30:58):
happened inside our head.
This is how bad of overthinkerswe are.
We're overthinking every singledetail.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
It's weird to it's.
It's something that what I wantto say is.
It's very it feels so true whenyou're overthinking, but you
still need to trust in the Lordto be Christian, and it feels
like both are opposites and itfeels like you're lacking as a
(31:33):
follower and or someone thattrust like, that wants to trust
in God and that loves God, butit still has this issue To even
trust him.
And when you were saying aboutit, I'm like it's so true,
because when you're in arelationship, you're
overthinking every step and it'snot gonna end up to anything
other than drama and problemsand a heartache when you were
(31:55):
there.
Friends, you're overthinking alot of stuff.
Did he do this on purpose?
Is he talking to them, him andsaying this, is he trustworthy
and he has my full support?
Did he say something?
This happened, like this ishappening to me.
Is it because of him or him orher?
And, like you said, it's atornado in my head and I'm just
(32:17):
stuck in the middle trying tograb onto things to understand
the tornado tornado.
Well, sometimes we need just toleave the tornado for it to be
calm and everything throws backon the floor.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
And I love how you brought back the tornado part,
because there's a very beautifulverse that says be still and
know that I am God.
Right it's, you know it's.
A Christ did the same thingwhen there was a storm in the
boat and then he talked andcommanded the waves to like be
still is the same thing.
Tell the tornado inside of yoube still and know that I am God.
(32:54):
This is the key to Living ahappy life.
If there was a key.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
Really.
Yeah, it is.
It is a good strength.
There's a couple of fears, andI want to be inclusive to all
types because we've talked aboutfew things, but we want to also
try to Describe as much as wecan over thinking, because you
know, we are a lot and we wantto help everyone and we're just
(33:24):
gonna I'm gonna just gonna gothrough them and we're gonna go
go with it.
So, fear of the unknown, Ithink this is we've talked about
it a lot.
Not knowing what what ishappening is is killing.
Absolutely.
I hate surprises.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
I.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
Really pretty pretty parties or pretty surprises,
what?
No, but you know when?
Speaker 2 (33:42):
someone comes to you and tells you I have a surprise
for you.
I hate that person already.
Don't come and tell me I have asurprise.
Tell me, I did this, or I didthat, or this is going to happen
.
I have a surprise for you.
No, no, it doesn't work with me.
I cannot.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
I just I'll joke about it, cuz you know we need
to have fun, even though in life, imagine if the girl is
overthinking everything andshe's getting proposed to.
That's not ideal for her.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
Just make the surprise, but don't tell her
there is a surprise.
Yeah, just propose or dosomething, but don't tell her.
If you tell her, she's probablynot gonna say yes.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
But so telling so just a good distinction.
That you said, telling you thatthere's something waiting for
you, is Where's then justsurprising you?
There's the fact that there'ssomething that you do not know,
right, or is it also thesurprise in itself?
I?
Speaker 2 (34:45):
Think it's just the element of not knowing what's
going to happen.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
It's really the element of the unknown and not
the element of surprise.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
Yes, the unknown, because, like I said, I'm a
person who needs to be ready,who needs to to Know what's
going to happen.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
There's a good verse that I wrote down from Timothy 2
Timothy, chapter 1, verse 7,for God has not given us a
spirit of fear, but of power andof love and of a sound mind.
And I love how you know Goddoesn't like write any, anything
and this verse, I love itbecause it tells you a spirit of
(35:26):
power, of Love and of a soundmind that he knows, he
understand that it's gonna betroublesome in your mind.
You're gonna go through all ofa lot of Hurt and a lot of
thoughts.
On top of that, you're notgonna be able to love as much
because you're gonna be secondguessing everyone next to you
and also you're gonna bepowerless because of it, because
(35:48):
you're gonna be stuck thinkingand that's all Because of fear
and we're gonna talk aboutthrough a lot of fears that
we're gonna go through.
But it just Summarizesoverthinking in the nice one,
don't you think?
Absolutely.
Second one, anxiety, I think,like you said, is there together
(36:13):
and the verse that I wrote fromthat is Philippians 4 6 Do not
be anxious about anything, butin every situation, by prayer
and petition, with Thanksgiving,present your request to God.
Yes, by prayer and petition.
I want to stop on that Becauseif I don't trust in God's plan,
(36:37):
how?
But in every situation?
By prayer and petition.
First of all prayer, that'sgonna be hard, but petition,
what is petition?
Speaker 2 (36:49):
That it's a very beautiful verse and, again, it's
very hard to Apply those verseswhen you're an overthinker.
In my opinion, I think they'reeven harder than the verse that
says love your enemy.
But again it's, it's step bystep.
You need to live day by day,learn to trust him, baby steps.
Speaker 1 (37:13):
Well, imagine every day you need to you to in every
situation, like he's telling youdon't be anxious about anything
which is reassuring, but inevery situation, by prayer and
petition, with Thanksgiving,present your request.
I'm like I'm already drowningin Problems.
(37:34):
I don't have Thanksgiving.
I am trying to just understand.
I don't even have understanding.
Speaker 2 (37:41):
No, absolutely I'm not gonna have Thanksgiving.
And it's like a prayer, is likea seed.
You can't expect To to be ahuge tree or a plant when you're
still a small seed.
You need to water it down.
Take your time, takes time.
It's not a process that'sovernight.
You're gonna wake up and, ma'am, you're not an overthinker
(38:03):
anymore.
No, no, no.
It's gonna take so much time,it's gonna take so much effort
and it's gonna take so manyreminders that God has a plan
for you, that you need to trustGod For you to reach that point,
that you're a tree, thatnothing, nothing is gonna move
you and when you're gonna becomea tree?
Speaker 1 (38:24):
Are you still gonna be fearful or Be able to be over
an overthinker, or is itsomething of the past?
Do you think that over, likeover thinking is a stage where,
when?
Speaker 2 (38:36):
completed.
Speaker 1 (38:37):
Yeah, you don't go back to it.
Speaker 2 (38:39):
No, you're gonna still be a fearful, I think.
Let's take, for example, davidthe prophet and.
David is is one of thecharacters in the Bible that you
know blows my mind.
He said to have the heart ofGod, but yet in one of his, his
Psalms, he says what?
How long old Lord, will youforget me?
Like, for real, you'reoverthinking this.
(39:01):
I feel like David was a bigoverthinker.
You're overthinking it that Godleft you and God did not even
leave you.
You know this is like ascenario that he left you, but
then I Love how he's like a treethat even if there is a little
bit of wind that moved him, hegoes back.
But I trust in God.
(39:21):
I trust in the Lord, like ifyou continue the Psalms, the
Psalms ends with him declaringthat he trust in God.
So even even over thinking isnot just a Disease that you're
going to heal from it.
It's not a disease actually,it's just a process that you put
yourself in and you're going toput yourself in it for the rest
(39:42):
of your life.
But you need to know that thereis a plan he got, that God has
a plan for you.
You need to know that.
Speaker 1 (39:50):
You need to trust him and maybe, maybe, just to
declare, like to add to whatyou're saying is it's not
because you don't see Any fruitsnow from the archery that it's
not gonna come.
It's just not the season of.
Speaker 2 (40:06):
Of the fruit?
Yeah, absolutely and it's.
Speaker 1 (40:07):
It's something because, as much as at the end
of the year You're gonna see thefruit and it's a wow moment,
it's still 300, like it's stilla full year of no food.
Prayers, thanksgiving, you're,thanking God, you're praying,
you are, you are asking him inevery situation to be there
(40:29):
until one day You're able totrust in him and still click
with this process.
It's still a full year or it'sabsolutely every single day,
every single second, andsomething I am I read is the,
the number, the number.
I can't remember the numberSpecifically, but the amount of
thoughts that a human brain Getsin a second, it's pretty
(40:53):
Humongous and from overthinker,he is receiving most of them.
Because the question is not DoI get thoughts?
Everyone get thoughts like ohmy god, this, this light is nice
, or the this, this, this Textis not open, or this is not,
like there's so manypossibilities.
But for an overthinker to gothrough all of them and to add
(41:15):
to it possibilities, this iswhat which gets to the crumbling
part, and this is what we'retrying to like Tell them to take
a breath, exactly, not stress.
Speaker 2 (41:28):
It's okay.
No, it's okay to overthink, butif you find yourself taking all
your energy, taking your entireday, staying up all night, then
that's not okay.
Then you need to stop yourself.
Then you need to tell yourselfbe still, and I want to.
I am you reminded me of a veryNice sermon that Mba Ma'ar was
once giving at the monastery.
He was saying that the the partand the verse that says by
(41:51):
think Thanksgiving.
He was saying anything that theonce was a woman that came to
him and told him I want to, II'm not getting married.
Like I want to get married, noone wants to to approach me or
talk to me or this or that.
And so I told her when you pray, say the following say thank
you, lord, for sending me theright person in the right time.
(42:12):
So it's declaring to God thatyou know I trust you, I am
thanking you and I know thatyou're going to send the right
person in the right time.
So it's as if he took thisverse and he rephrased it for
her in a prayer.
Speaker 1 (42:31):
Being being born in in the orthodox faith and in the
Coptic orthodox faith.
I Feel like we are a Populationof overthinker.
As we, we overthink our future,we overthink every step, we
overthink what people think and,because it's funny and people
(42:54):
will be like people outside,don't overthink that, like they
are they are giving me the space.
I don't feel that that pressureof Overthinking every step that
I'm taking out of fear of theothers, so of social judgment,
and that this is something thatwe as a Community is going
(43:16):
through social judgment Crumblesus to do anything that is what
we want or what we do, what wefeel like it's right for us, but
it's right for the community orit looks good.
How, how did you overcome this?
Speaker 2 (43:33):
I just ignore.
That's it.
It's as easy as that.
When is?
When there's something thatneeds you to to pay attention to
it, pay attention to it, butwhen there's something as silly
as am I gonna become an engineeror a doctor or a lawyer just
ignore.
You have you prepare yourselffor whatever you want to be and
(43:56):
ignore the rest.
Ignore whoever thinks you're afailure, because you know there.
Focus on yourself.
This is what you need to do.
Speaker 1 (44:06):
Focus on yourself but I like it just take more.
Should we also ignore peoplelike our parents or friends?
Or if let's say, let's say thatsomeone of Good authority in
general tells you to to worryabout something or to to make
sure that this or that doesn'taffect you, and you feel like
(44:28):
this is, this is killing me frominside and it's overthinking,
because it takes a lot of energyfrom me and it kills my, my, my
, my process, my whole lifeprocess, and I'm stuck unto this
point.
Speaker 2 (44:41):
Can you give me an example, because I feel like
you're you're going to like havevery specific scenario.
Speaker 1 (44:47):
No, as it's as much as I'll go with Carrier, because
it's the the thing that we gothrough the most here in the
West Western world.
We are lucky to have a lot ofpossibilities, but I feel like
we are only giving our Kids foroptions.
(45:07):
You know the known for optionsbeing a doctor, being a lawyer,
being an engineer or Pharmacistpharmacist, or at the end in,
like they say, or just a garbageman.
Speaker 2 (45:23):
If it's all those four, then you're going to
become a garbage man, absolutelyand Do you feel that that
freedom of choice, or have youpicked it?
Speaker 1 (45:32):
Have you picked your career because of the limitation
that your, our community, hasgiven us?
Speaker 2 (45:44):
I feel like I picked engineering In the beginning.
My plan was not to become anengineer, my plan was to become
a pilot, and so I was a bitoutside of the Four choices that
you were mentioning.
But I was still sociallyaccepted because it was a very
prestigious sort of career.
So I had the support of myfamily and my surroundings and
(46:07):
I'm thankful for that.
So I don't feel like I wasstruggling with this particular
issue of my career.
But I know quite a lot ofpeople who you know they don't
want to become an engineer andthey got into engineering.
And here they are.
They got into there becausetheir parents are pressuring
them and so they're.
(46:29):
They're anxious, they don'twant to continue Right.
And I tell them Once yougraduate, what are you gonna do?
How are you gonna spend fouryears of your life working in a
company and and doing this jobfor the rest of your life?
Speaker 1 (46:44):
just to put in the perspective it's 40 years, 40
hours a week and I know I am.
Speaker 2 (46:49):
By doing this, I am sort of contributing to their
overthinking, but, like we saidearlier, there are some
overthinking that's beneficialright I am paying your attention
to.
You need to overthink thisparticular point, not for long,
but for that specific moment.
You need to overthink itbecause you have four years
ahead of you and if you don'tthink about it right now, how
(47:12):
are you gonna live for the restof your life?
Speaker 1 (47:14):
And and the overthinking does not is not
overthinking, is just thinking,because now you're planning your
life and you are rightfullyPlaced to sit down, to plan, to
think, to see, okay, what are myoptions, what are my passions
exactly what?
What is Interesting for me tocontinue for the rest of my life
(47:37):
as much as marrying someone?
You're sitting down, you'rethinking what are the red flags?
What are the green flags?
What are the possibilities there?
And and go and.
Do you think that if I am anoverthinker, is Every thought
and over overthought, like Icould say that is every thought
(48:00):
that comes to me is alwaysoverthinking, or can it be just
thinking?
Speaker 2 (48:07):
No, not everything like like I said in your
experience?
Yeah, my experience, if ittakes you a lot of energy, if it
keeps you up all night, this isan overthinking.
Speaker 1 (48:17):
How do you do the distinction Between?
It's just a thought, which isnatural.
I am thinking the right amount,the right energy for that
specific thought or for thattype of thoughts, or no?
Now, I'm just Overthinking it.
I'm overdoing it, can it?
Speaker 2 (48:34):
wait until tomorrow.
This is what I asked myself.
Can it wait till tomorrow?
If it can't, then I'moverthinking.
Speaker 1 (48:41):
If it can wait, but there's things are urgent.
Speaker 2 (48:44):
There.
Nothing is as urgent as stayinguntil 5 6 am In the morning,
thinking about it and stressingabout it.
Speaker 1 (48:53):
So if it's urgent, you're gonna act on it.
If you're just thinking aboutit, that's an overthought.
Speaker 2 (48:57):
Yes exactly.
Speaker 1 (48:58):
That's simple.
That's a good.
It's a good.
At least there's perspective toknow.
Okay, am I overthinking or am Ijust thinking I'm able to
continue to my tasks to my day?
I have also.
Well, you said this are ofcontrol, of for control, and
Trust in the Lord with all yourheart and do not lean on your
(49:19):
own understanding.
In all your ways, acknowledgehim and he will make straight
your paths.
And this resumes.
You know the whole.
Everything we're saying exactlyall your heart with all your
heart and it's, it's, it's theshroud, like the little Krak in
the windshield of trust.
That is the start ofoverthinking.
(49:41):
I think this is beautiful toread it and we read it also, but
there's also and this is somesomething that people told me
about is perfectionism, andabsolutely.
Speaker 2 (49:53):
Overthinking and perfectionism are like
hand-in-hand.
And it's not just overthinkinganxious is and perfection.
I'm an perfectionist On a wholenew level.
If something is not perfect,I'm not gonna do it.
Speaker 1 (50:07):
You're like I, rather do it perfectly or not do it,
and you've heard me say this somany times, right?
Speaker 2 (50:13):
And so there are so many projects in my life that I
wanted to start and I'moverthinking.
Oh, how am I gonna dress, howam I gonna talk, how am I gonna
say if I should write a script,if I should do this or that,
that I'm like trying to be aperfectionist so much that I've
never done those projects.
Speaker 1 (50:32):
I would.
I would say even I would sharea truth where even this project
Took me more months that itshould because of the fear of
Perfectionism.
The fact that people might notlike it, people might just not
like me because of it and peoplemight not even, you know, feel
(50:52):
like they want to be Christianor like they're gonna hate
Christ because of me, because ofthat park, and you're like but
there's things that, yes, youneed to do the right thing and
think about it and plan it andbe sure, like, okay, I am
prepared to do the right thingand I'm gonna go, naturally
because you know we don't have astrict script.
But you know, even marketingand at work, it's the same issue
(51:13):
.
Do you feel like, at work,being being perfection, does it
help?
Does, does it ever helped you?
Do you ever have a project thatbeing being perfectionist
actually saves lives, or Doingthe right thing is always okay?
I.
Speaker 2 (51:32):
Think putting effort is enough.
Being perfectionist doesn'thelp.
You can never be perfect.
No one is perfect, like theysay.
You can try to make thisperfect.
You can try to make thispodcast very amazing, right?
And and buy very expensive myMicrophones and write the script
and this and that and that, andstill the result does not
(51:54):
please the people, right?
Or you can just dig and talkabout whatever comes through
your mind and Still get getpeople attention and get people
want to listen to it, right?
Perfectionism does not alwayshelp.
And it brings to my Memory aconversation that I was having
with someone recently wherethey're also Overthinkers and
(52:17):
they're also also perfectionist,right, and there is a certain
subject that they are so afraidof digging in it.
They were telling me it makesme stress so much.
And I'm telling them, like,just dig in it, give it a try.
You never know you, you couldsucceed.
You could also fail, it'spossible.
(52:37):
But give it a try, stopoverthinking and and jump in.
Speaker 1 (52:42):
This is what you need to do one thing that made me
realize is that actually wasgreater than the fear of
perfectionism is the fear ofregret, regretting that I didn't
do it, even though it wasn't itwasn't perfect, even though I
didn't know what is the outcome,even though I did not have
(53:04):
control of everything that wouldhappen to it.
The fear of regretting notdoing at all was Was moving me
to do more and to just do Cuz.
It's funny, cuz I.
When I read the Nike's sloganjust do it, they don't say just
(53:26):
overdo it, no, just do it.
Let's see, let's do it.
Speaker 2 (53:30):
The fear that you're talking about this is
overthinking, right?
You're reliving the past, whenyou could have just saved
yourself by just jumping in.
Now there's this youtuber thatI really love.
His nas daily.
I don't know if you've heard ofhim, yes, and I love how his
first episode he was talkingabout how he started, right, and
he started by doing the oneminute videos.
(53:53):
This is, that's one minutes.
You tomorrow, right?
And he was saying that.
You know, I just jumped in.
I didn't know how it's going oror what the outcome would be,
and as I'm going, I'm learningnew stuff and I'm making it
perfect.
I'm making it better, right?
So this is what you need to do.
You just need to jump in.
Speaker 1 (54:13):
There's also the, the fear of guilt or shame, because
the, so the fear of guilt ofand shame, combos us from from
something that we did in thepast, and the look that we have
to our own selves Forget thesocial part of it, even to our
(54:36):
own selves.
In front of God, in front ofHim, it's not even interesting.
Him, it's like I don't evenlook good.
How did you ever feel that andhow did you work from it?
Speaker 2 (54:48):
Absolutely.
Trauma is the cause of fear inthe past.
Right, you need to tellyourself that whatever happened
in the past does not define you.
What defines you is what you dotoday and what you plan on
doing in the future.
Speaker 1 (55:06):
I'll try to answer that with well.
If they knew what happened,they will change their mind
about me.
So if I say my dark secret,your perspective of me will
change, even though today I amcompletely good or I'm
completely another person, orI've worked hard to become such
(55:30):
and such, or I've been workingon it for so long, or I'm just
on another new day.
But knowing the knowledge ofthe past or that dark secret
puts the other person to changetheir perspective.
How would you answer that?
When people tell you people ifthey knew, they would change
their mind about me.
Speaker 2 (55:49):
I would tell them if a person changes their mind
about you because of your past,you don't need that person in
your life.
Speaker 1 (55:57):
It's very hard to cut off people's soul.
Speaker 2 (56:01):
Absolutely, absolutely.
It's very hard to let go, evenif it's a person that you've met
for a very short period of time.
But once you've got used tothat person, it's hard to let go
.
But tell yourself somethingit's better to let go now than
to stick to that person and gethurt even more and more and more
(56:21):
.
Or to stick to that person andhide behind a mask.
That's not you, because you'retoo worried and too anxious that
that person will know the past.
Speaker 1 (56:33):
But the hope, the hope of it be different with the
person.
Let's say that maybe in thatmoment he would not understand
or she would not understand.
But let's say, if I've givenher more time with me, she might
give me a chance, or he mightgive me the time of day or the
(56:53):
ear that I need for me to saythe dark secret.
Is that always true or this isa myth?
What do you think?
Have you ever been in thatsituation where you feel like
you've said something too fast?
Now you're just like, okay, I'mgoing to take my time and say
it later.
Or do you get stuck in themiddle overthinking when should
(57:16):
I say it, or do I even say it?
Speaker 2 (57:18):
Never.
Here's where I think I thinkthat you should not tell the
person anything about the past.
That's my opinion, and I thinkthat's also the opinion of a lot
of fathers.
If you speak with your fatherof compassion, they will tell
you your past or your sins orwhatever happened in the past is
for you to tell the God tolearn from it and to move on,
(57:40):
not for you to share it withyour partner.
That's my opinion.
Speaker 1 (57:47):
Again, and I'm going to try to test it if you don't
mind.
So any of the past.
You wouldn't say anything fromthe past, nothing.
Past relationship, pastencounters, past troubles, past
friends.
What's the point?
(58:07):
What's the point.
Speaker 2 (58:08):
Maybe it's a recipe for disaster, and it's a recipe
for overthinking, because now,once you have told that person,
you're going to stay up allnight thinking did that person
take it the right way?
What are they thinking of meright now?
Are they thinking I'm a goodperson?
Are they going to leave me?
And then you start creatingscenarios of them leaving you
(58:28):
and putting them through so manytests to make sure that they're
actually not leaving you to thepoint that that person is going
to reach a level where you knowwhat.
I don't want to know youanymore, like I didn't care
about whatever you told me inthe past, but right now you're
making my life miserable that Idon't want to continue in this
present.
Right.
So why?
Why don't you tell yourselfthat you know what?
(58:49):
I'm not going to tell anythingabout the past.
I'm going to let that personmeet me, who I am today and who
I plan to be in the future.
And whatever happened in thepast is the past and, like I
said earlier, the past is foryou to learn from it and move on
.
The future is for you to hopefor it and not to be anxious
about it.
Speaker 1 (59:12):
It's good advice and I wish I had someone, or like
someone, to tell me that before,because the time I wasted
thinking or let's say it,overthink it pushed so many
people away.
(59:34):
And not only that pushed me awayfrom people Absolutely, because
I had a barrier and I'm likeyou know what?
I don't want to talk, or Idon't want to even get closer to
you, because if I'm going toget close, this is going to
happen and this is going tohappen.
And when I overthink this andthis and this, why do all this?
Just stay away, I'll be better.
Speaker 2 (59:53):
Exactly.
I've done so many of these andI've lost so many people around
me until I realized that whatI'm doing is wrong.
Speaker 1 (01:00:01):
Were you able to reconcile people from that?
Were you able to be like, okay,this is the time where I was
overthinking.
Sorry, Is it doable?
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (01:00:10):
absolutely.
I was recently having aconversation with, actually, one
of my good friends and theywere telling me, like what you
did was wrong, what you did tome was wrong, and I apologized
and we reconciled and explained.
I explained how I was anoverthinker and how I've been
through this and that and thatand that and the whole process,
and certain people will acceptit and others will not.
(01:00:33):
Certain people will tell youokay, I understand where you're
coming from, and others will belike I don't even want to listen
to you and that's okay.
That's okay, that's the right.
Speaker 1 (01:00:45):
And this is not a true question but some people
that will reject me, even thoughI try to reconcile.
I'm going to feel bad, I'mgoing to feel shameful, I'm
going to regret trying.
What do you say to that?
What do you say to the peoplethat were like why put myself in
a position where people wouldtell me something that would not
(01:01:07):
insult me but hurt me?
Because it's hurtful to tellsomeone, no, I don't want to be
friends with you.
It's very hard.
I've actually had multiplepeople tell me no, no, this
friendship I don't want to know.
It's pretty much.
I don't want to be friends withyou, even though, like, I'm
sorry for what happened.
You know this happened, youknow I have this or I'm going
(01:01:28):
through this or this is mysituation, but I still want to
be friends and be like no, Idon't want to Not as like I
don't mean to everyone to belike so heartless, but the way I
took it is it feels like it'sso heartless to say no to a
friendship.
Speaker 2 (01:01:46):
You can't force someone to be with you, you
can't force someone to love you.
You got to accept it.
Okay, I have done what I neededto do, what my God has
commanded me to do, which is toapproach you and to apologize
for everything that I have donein the past, and I will approach
you and apologize for hurtingyou.
If you want to accept it, good,I'm ready to start over.
(01:02:09):
If you don't want to accept it,then I have done my part.
It doesn't define me anymore.
It defines you.
You are a person who doesn'twant to accept, right.
Speaker 1 (01:02:21):
It's, and when you come to that realization, it
changes your whole likeperspective and perspective,
because you're like, I've donewhat I like I need to do and I'm
good.
I am where I am and I'm movingforward and I'm moving forward.
So, whether we're that too,it's okay, but it's you now
(01:02:43):
Absolutely Good.
You've given, you played theball and it's in their court.
Speaker 2 (01:02:47):
You played whatever they want to kick it, they kick
it, they kick it, they don't.
Speaker 1 (01:02:50):
You're lost in their court.
Speaker 2 (01:02:52):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (01:02:54):
I think we, I think we did everything.
The only thing that I just wantto mention that because it's
over thinking.
It's such an inside thing thatwe there's also emphasizing on
things that are outside of you,like material success or
materialistic.
Being materialistic sometimesmakes you over thinking a lot of
(01:03:16):
things because you want to keepthat, that progress, and it
makes you paranoid of anymovement of that dollar signs in
any way or progress thatstresses you out all day long or
all year long to be like, oh, Iwas at that point, but now,
like I'm lower, like it's, forexample, covid, covid, a lot of
(01:03:37):
people lost a lot of things andand it creates a lot of stress
and and and put over thinkers tomaximum input.
Because, you're like okay, Idon't have a job.
Speaker 2 (01:03:50):
I don't have a job.
Speaker 1 (01:03:51):
Yes, and you're in your, you're at home, you're in
your head.
You're not doing much becauseyou're stuck at home with no one
.
You're most probably gaming,like I did, but at least you're
not working.
You're not.
You're not focusing on otherstuff than you focus on yourself
, and all is happening aroundyou is closed down and like
people are dying and people aresick and and there's no work and
(01:04:14):
the economy is on the floor.
People came out on an anxiousand there's a lot of people that
are overthinking just becauseof that.
What can we say to help them,or to even reconcile the, the,
the, this hard truth, that hardtime, and tell them it's okay,
(01:04:36):
it's gonna be better?
Speaker 2 (01:04:38):
I mean, I mean, I feel like, like you're saying,
covid was a reason for a lot ofpeople to get to, like, get in
their head and realize howanxious they are or how they're
suffering from an anxiety.
But it was also a time whereeveryone was telling each other
(01:05:01):
we're in this together, right.
So it's very important toremember that you're not alone,
right, and this is the reasonwhy I'm here as well.
Right, it's to tell peopleyou're not alone.
You're not the only person whowas overthinking his life.
I'm also overthinking, right.
So just remembering that you'renot alone, remembering to trust
(01:05:24):
God, is what I think I isenough to tell others.
Speaker 1 (01:05:31):
I think over time every day, to do that is going
to help.
I think prayer, and a lot ofprayers, is required for you to
go through overthinking andsurvive it, Absolutely.
You know there's.
I think we should legit createa blog or something and write
(01:05:52):
all the quotes.
And you know you have this.
Have you seen that picture orthat?
There's your problems.
Speaker 2 (01:06:02):
And then the verse that goes with it.
Absolutely, you say this, andthen God says that, and I'm
anxious, but I do not fear, forI am the Lord I love this
picture.
Speaker 1 (01:06:14):
There's a few times that I saw it and it's like it
came to the right.
There's actually some like aperson that always, especially
is me and the most randomness,like random moments in my life,
like they send me a quote orlike a video or a reel and and
just the answer of that time islike how did you know?
(01:06:36):
Were you in my thoughts and wereyou in my thoughts and I didn't
know.
Do you have any bookrecommendations, have you like?
Do you have books that you'veread that helped you with
overthinking, or that could be aplace to start?
Speaker 2 (01:06:53):
There is a very beautiful series of books right
now that I have been reading andit's allowing me to see someone
who has been going throughtrauma and in the process they
took to really trusting God, andit's the book Elijah or, I
think, elements.
It's called Elements, thetransformation of Elijah, or
something like this.
(01:07:13):
I feel like this book isessential for everyone to read
it.
It's going to change a lot ofpeople's life.
It personally changed my life.
Speaker 1 (01:07:23):
I actually started and in the first maybe 100 pages
I've never read so fast a book.
I've not done with it, I'mgoing to say the truth.
But the first I remember when Iwas reading the first 100, it
took me like not even a sitting.
Speaker 2 (01:07:37):
I was sitting down and then just flew away and I
was like, wow, yeah, I amreading because I don't read and
you can connect so much to thatperson because he's another
Coptic Orthodox guy who is bornin Canada and who's raised the
same way that we were raised,with the same mentality of
parents and everything.
So you can connect so much tohim and so you can see
(01:08:01):
everything that he's gonethrough whether it's trauma,
whether it's events, sad eventsor happy events and how he coped
with it and how God was withhim.
So it really changes your life.
Speaker 1 (01:08:14):
It does, it does.
Thank you again, rajeev, forcoming and taking your time to
speak to us, to something sodeep and something that
sometimes we don't realize thatit's a problem, and to help
everyone, including me, to haveperspective on something so hard
.
Thank you so much.
Thank you for having me.
Thank you, guys for tuning intoday.
Please continue subscribing,sharing and liking our videos.
(01:08:37):
It helps us with all thealgorithm, as you know.
Follow us.
We're going to put all ourlinks down below.
Have a good day and God bless.
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